00:00:23 KatchaFire [n=bernie@bas33-4-88-180-245-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:58 dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-132-170.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:40 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357050.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:06:09 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:08:36 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:19 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 00:10:30 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-44-216.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 00:11:11 -!- KatchaFire [n=bernie@bas33-4-88-180-245-209.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 00:11:59 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:14 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey 00:15:46 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:18:46 -!- perdix_ [n=perdix@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:19:47 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B6C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:20:22 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 00:24:07 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 00:24:29 -!- holycow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:26:16 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 00:26:23 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@45-242.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:30:07 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 00:34:01 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:39:28 Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:15 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:41:44 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.137] has joined #lisp 00:41:59 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.137] has left #lisp 00:44:50 Shamiq [n=Adium@24-155-205-80.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:39 I've got some code that's a bit inefficient and i was wondering if someone could take a look and help me rewrite it. 00:46:06 (only a couple lines) 00:46:18 you can paste it 00:46:22 lisppaste: url? 00:46:23 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 00:46:25 Shamiq pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91564 00:46:31 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.114.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:47:47 so an input like '(a b c d) calls numberp on each element a lot and i'm not sure how to restructure it. 00:48:54 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-feervngbqsqaawul] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:49:05 (some (lambda (item) (or (numberp item) (not (atom item)) (has-number-p item))) s-exp) 00:49:19 Oops. 00:49:31 (some (lambda (item) (or (numberp item) (and (consp item) (has-number-p item)))) s-exp) 00:50:02 Simpler: (defun has-number-p (x) (if (atom x) (numberp x) (or (has-number-p (car x)) (has-number-p (cdr x))))). 00:50:10 Instead of considering each cons cell, consider each list, and process only the sublists recursively. 00:51:18 ah, so only do the recursive call when i hit a consp? 00:51:51 Shamiq: I don't see why you use numberp except for the atom case. 00:52:24 pkhuong: i thought if i had a flat list with a number, it would stop right away. 00:52:51 pkhuong: and if not, it'd keep going --- but that's causing the n! number of calls. 00:54:26 Shamiq: some and your recursive calls were doing twice the same thing. 00:54:45 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-158-110.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:54:57 Shamiq: why the null test? 00:55:07 Seems like the SOME should take care of it. 00:55:08 dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has joined #lisp 00:55:30 in case nil becomes a number in a future revision of the ANSI standard 00:55:36 Ah. Right. 00:55:48 gigamonkey: i'm pretty new to lisp -- so i didn't do that on purpose... 00:56:16 Shamiq: the trick here is how we can lead you to grokking fully without just giving you the answer to your homework. ;-) 00:56:37 How about this hint--think about what function you want to pass to SOME. 00:56:43 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-112-242.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:57:01 now i take a few to wrap my head around what everyone wrote =) 00:58:11 gigamonkey: I disagree. It's one of those things you only learn to write by example. After that, fold is a basic algorithmic tool. 00:58:47 -!- delYsid [n=user@84.115.136.207] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:58:48 pkhuong: Could be. But then why do all these profs keep asking questions like this as homework? 00:59:08 "Because they are irredeemably lazy" is an acceptable answer. ;-) 00:59:23 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-91811.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:59:24 gigamonkey: haven't got a clue. I did that, but only with accompanying examples. 00:59:52 Though who knows. Maybe Shamiq has actually seen multiple examples of the same technique he's being asked to apply but is missing the connection. 01:00:55 i'm reading through Graham and working exercises -- this exercise was taken from different materials 01:01:01 quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 01:01:07 Ah. 01:01:30 so it's using the same general principles, but the algorithms i need to develop on my own. 01:03:40 gigamonkey annotated #91564 "two ways" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91564#1 01:04:37 Anyway, there are two ways to do it. One is pkhuong's from above. One uses SOME. 01:04:39 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 01:05:24 -!- davazp [n=user@143.Red-88-1-103.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:05:31 ahh 01:05:34 -!- Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:05:41 rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:55 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-181-1.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:09:25 pkhuong: Ping? 01:11:07 nyef? 01:11:15 Think I should pull again? 01:11:27 Just pushed todays changes to the stupid-lowtag-tricks tree. 01:13:13 I think I'm going to try to not work on it tomorrow. 01:18:05 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:23:51 -!- pjb [n=t@18.Red-88-30-107.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:28:52 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:29:32 jgg [n=user@199.76.145.219] has joined #lisp 01:29:41 -!- jgg [n=user@199.76.145.219] has quit [Client Quit] 01:32:10 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:33:53 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ironport.museum.moma.org] has quit [] 01:35:44 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:36:18 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest24823 01:36:41 segoe [n=segoe@83.231.46.49] has joined #lisp 01:37:58 Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-42-62.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:40:02 -!- Guest24823 is now known as pkhuong 01:47:26 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-vivoapslnsjpulxj] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:55:51 wmannis [n=wmannis@76.201.159.233] has joined #lisp 01:58:06 -!- Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-42-62.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 02:01:11 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:50 -!- dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:08:52 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:12:02 dto [n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:01 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 02:20:25 prxq_ [n=mommer@78.52.185.211] has joined #lisp 02:20:33 -!- prxq [n=mommer@f051101061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:22:39 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-189-93.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:25:39 Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:57 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 02:28:02 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 02:28:54 i want a tool to automatically extract function names, arglists, default values, and docstrings and convert them to something that either is HTML or something that converts to html 02:29:22 i've been trying to write my own tool and it's hopeless 02:33:05 can i write a common lisp program to extract all that? 02:33:20 i was using elisp to try to parse the files 02:33:39 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:37:40 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:54 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-151-196-119-7.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:19 -!- Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:48:36 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 02:49:11 envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 02:58:20 dto: Is this from another language, or something from CL you're trying to pull documentation out of? 02:58:28 from CL. 02:58:39 i'm looking at do-exported-symbols or whatever it is 02:59:36 ah, not sure from a Cl-based program - but pulling stuff out of source code in other languages are a bit hit-and-miss from what I've done in the past. 03:00:53 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:03 Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:49 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:06 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:02:21 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-232-46.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 03:04:38 TDT: is there a way to obtain the arglist of a CL function as with (documentation 'foo) ? 03:04:58 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 03:05:36 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633626.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 03:05:52 clhs function-lambda-expression 03:05:59 not guaranteed to give useful results portably 03:06:23 hmm. 03:06:44 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:50 thanks :) 03:06:56 Adlai: that's awesome, now i can write my own tool 03:11:08 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633626.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:11:54 -!- wmannis [n=wmannis@76.201.159.233] has quit [] 03:12:11 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:14:53 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:15:07 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [No route to host] 03:15:39 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [No route to host] 03:15:54 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 03:18:20 redblue [i=star@ppp207.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:22:02 Pete_R [n=quassel@78.97.98.73] has joined #lisp 03:32:32 mutew [n=mutew@128.220.251.38] has joined #lisp 03:36:43 is there any way to tell whether a symbol is a function, macro, or variable, or what? 03:37:13 boundp, fboundp, macro-function, special-operator-p 03:37:40 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:39:53 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:43:54 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 03:45:07 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:45:23 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 03:46:38 -!- quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242357050.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:49:51 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:52:49 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:53:18 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-22-196.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:54:47 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-2-133.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:57:28 eddief [n=root@pool-141-157-195-182.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:47 sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:18 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:00:20 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 04:04:04 Hi people! 04:05:30 I get a "0 is not of type cell-element" error in this function (setf (cell-element-sort (aref *cell-heap* (aref *X* (+ index *Q*)))) sort)) [lisp paste doesn't respond] 04:06:11 where 0 is the value passed to index 04:06:41 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.56.159.167] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:08:30 Pete_R: have you ever initialised your vectors? Any reason you're using vectors of vectors instead of a rank-2 array? 04:09:46 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-35-82-250-241-252.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:10:00 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@219-89-106-45.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:10:05 Nshag [i=user@lns-bzn-35-82-250-241-252.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:16 pkhuong: yes, they're initialized. The problem is that when I do a direct call to that function it woks, but when called via apply (this case) I get the error :| 04:11:55 Pete_R: I don't see any function. 04:12:51 pkhuong: sorry about that, I've should posted it to pastebin, but the server doesn't respond 04:13:14 pkhuong: the line there is wrapped in a defun 04:13:20 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-23-70.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:13:36 I'm not sure I understand why you have this double indirection going on either. 04:14:20 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.30] has joined #lisp 04:14:46 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:15:12 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.30] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:15:26 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.30] has joined #lisp 04:16:34 pkhuong: It's to save acces-time for the vector 04:17:17 Interesting. 04:17:35 pkhuong: tell me about it :) 04:18:08 anyway, I don't understand why i get this error 04:18:19 yesterday it worked well 04:20:26 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:35 and even now it works well when executed directly 04:23:24 -!- segoe [n=segoe@83.231.46.49] has quit [] 04:25:48 That c.l.l thread on array dimenson limit reveals interesting blind spots. 04:27:23 pkhuong: what is c.l.l? 04:27:47 comp.lang.lisp 04:30:57 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06c19c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:00 good morning 04:31:26 'mornin :) 04:34:01 -!- mutew [n=mutew@128.220.251.38] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:34:26 is there any way to export a symbol "on the spot" without listing it in a defpackage form? 04:34:31 oh, never mind 04:38:27 no, mind again. is there a way? 04:39:45 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.202.207] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 04:43:56 -!- Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:45:34 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:45:54 -!- eddief [n=root@pool-141-157-195-182.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:46:51 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.30] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:48:26 dto: (export) 04:48:34 thanks :) 04:50:30 Good morning 04:51:04 -!- ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.95.154] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:53:32 angel [n=angel@221.217.204.93] has joined #lisp 04:53:52 beach: morning! 04:54:00 Pete_R: What does the *X* vector look like? 04:54:13 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 04:54:45 Pete_R: Actually, never mind. That probably isn't the problem. 04:55:01 beach: HI! :) 04:56:09 vaios [n=novalis@aixd3.rhrk.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 04:56:36 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633626.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 04:58:07 -!- vaios [n=novalis@aixd3.rhrk.uni-kl.de] has left #lisp 05:04:15 mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:13 hi beach. 05:08:49 -!- lpolzer__ [n=sky@dslb-088-073-236-209.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:09:12 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-30-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:37 Hey dto. What are you working on these days? 05:09:39 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.131.153] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:10:18 my game engine, and documenting its API 05:10:25 the engine's been renamed XE2 05:10:41 see logo at http://lispgamesdev.blogspot.com/ 05:11:03 and i'm trying to flesh out this documentation and improve its exporter 05:11:06 http://dto.github.com/notebook/xe2-reference.html 05:11:19 did you see my breakout clone video? 05:11:23 i'm also working on that 05:11:31 -!- Pete_R [n=quassel@78.97.98.73] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:11:50 I keep forgetting. I can only do that at work, and I always have time at home. 05:12:22 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 05:12:43 heh. 05:13:02 at least tell me what you think of my jellyfish mascot 05:13:52 Not bad! 05:14:00 lpolzer__ [n=sky@dslb-088-073-239-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:24 my doc extractor needs a lot of work, but it's also encouraging me to document the codebase. 05:14:33 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 05:14:33 -!- angel [n=angel@221.217.204.93] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:14:45 and rolling my own extractor lets me use Emacs orgmode as the output format, which is very simple 05:15:27 jellyfish? I thought something along the lines of bacteria... 05:15:43 maybe i should make it look more jellyfish ish 05:16:16 i was playing with all the glow and color effects in inkscape, you can probably tell 05:18:28 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp207.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 05:33:04 redblue [i=life@ppp050.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:37:49 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:10 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 05:52:46 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:52:51 snowbeard [n=snowbear@cpe-065-190-191-189.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:02 dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:10 -!- dnolen [n=dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:57:55 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit ["Asta-la byebye"] 05:58:08 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 05:59:34 -!- snowbeard [n=snowbear@cpe-065-190-191-189.nc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 05:59:38 simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 06:01:00 hmm... Monaco font looks quite nice, though bolded variant could be thinner... 06:01:40 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:01:55 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-88-193.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:11:44 -!- OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@219-89-106-45.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:14:46 -!- moah [n=gnu@dslb-084-063-163-238.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:15:00 moah [n=gnu@dslb-084-063-187-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:42 -!- loxs [n=loxs@85-130-35-10.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:21:35 -!- Nshag [i=user@lns-bzn-35-82-250-241-252.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:23:43 -!- Shamiq [n=Adium@24-155-205-80.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:24:43 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 06:27:35 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:30:39 cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 06:31:22 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:31:38 maus [n=maus@222.253.109.14] has joined #lisp 06:31:57 Good afternoon! 06:37:42 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:40:43 Aviado [n=jack@75-30-250-33.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:44 milanj- [n=milan@77.46.249.154] has joined #lisp 06:47:16 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:48:21 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.213.12] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:53:15 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["brb"] 06:57:20 ace4016 [n=dante401@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:01:09 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-135-135.net.novis.pt] has left #lisp 07:01:40 MoALTz [n=heh@92.16.202.182] has joined #lisp 07:02:17 -!- milanj- [n=milan@77.46.249.154] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:06:19 -!- cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:07:00 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:07:38 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:39 ... wat, SDF added Genera to their OS list 07:12:52 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has joined #lisp 07:14:58 hi, I don't like the current multi-thread convention in SBCL. That all special bindings are threadlocal and bindings in new thread will be the global binding by default. I want a function that can deep copy the current special bindings so I can pass it to the new thread. Anybody agrees with me? 07:15:45 It's the same in AllegroCL and Lispworks as well, but I want to listen to some opinions. 07:17:38 dysinger_ [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-132-170.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:17:50 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:19:08 How to write (make-array '(row column))? when I write like that, it says an error: row is not a type of number. 07:19:29 maus: (make-array (list row column)) 07:20:32 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-132-170.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:20:33 -!- dysinger_ is now known as dysinger 07:20:47 huangjs: thank you, I got it! 07:20:51 huangjs: look at src/code/symbol.lisp after symbol-global-value and set-symbol-global-value , maybe those would go around the special binding. But I'm not sure, it could be very wrong to use that interface. 07:20:56 nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 07:23:31 -!- mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:24:03 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-C2F2E195.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 07:24:31 lharc: That's not what I want. Compare sb-thread:make-thread and sb-posix:fork, the first one will start a new thread with global bindings. The latter will start a new process with same local special bindings. I think this doesn't make sense. 07:25:23 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:26:06 There are cases I want a fresh environment but many times, I want the local special bindings to be available (e.g. io-stream bindings, pretty print settings, etc.) 07:26:12 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:26:12 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229243056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:27:20 huangs: oh I see.. my suggestion was even the opposite :) 07:30:21 -!- moah [n=gnu@dslb-084-063-187-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:37:33 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:37:38 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:37:50 so, no common-lisp.net? 07:38:16 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:38:34 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:41:59 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 07:42:32 huangjs: what do you mean that sb-posix:fork will create a new process with local special bindings? 07:43:46 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:44:17 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:44:44 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:45:00 jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-42-2.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:49:52 YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:49:54 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:50:09 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 07:50:26 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:50:35 p_l: paste.lisp.org seems to be down. have a look at this example. http://gist.github.com/248896 07:53:52 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:54:08 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 07:55:09 huangjs: hmm... fork behaviour is correct, then 07:56:01 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:56:04 p_l: yeah, fork's behaviour is a prefered way, but there are cases that people might want a fresh environment (special bindings, condition handlers, etc.) 07:56:47 as for threads, have you thought about (sb-thread:make-thread (lambda () (let ((*a* 2)) (print *a*)))) ? 07:57:06 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:57:10 p_l: currently everything HAS to be done in this way. 07:57:15 good morning 07:57:48 huangjs: well, putting it into closure looks more obvious to me 07:57:54 but think about how many special bindings you might need to handle? io-streams, pretty prints, etc. 07:58:53 hm... I have an idea, but it would require access to environments, and my lisp-fu isn't too good 07:59:41 yeah, at least a deep copy of special bindings would be helpful . 08:01:37 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit ["Asta-la byebye"] 08:02:07 p_l: and make it the default behavior is also preferred. imaging a library that doesn parallel processing but does not give you an interface to adjust the special bindings in other threads. Then you can't make sure all the threads will behave as the same as the main thread! 08:03:06 p_l: I would prefer deepcopy by default though it has some overhead. 08:03:47 eaumontab [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:04:04 moah [n=gnu@dslb-188-101-016-136.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:08 is c-l.net down? 08:04:11 ok, back to work. :) feel free to leave me messages. i'll check them later. 08:04:33 hmm... I think the best API would be a modification of sb-thread:make-thread 08:04:45 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:05:13 maybe something like sb-thread:make-thread-shared-nothing ? ;-) 08:06:30 p_l: Global bindings are always shared. I'll say make-thread, make-thread-abandon-bindings. 08:06:33 huangjs, that solution can easily lead to hordes of people shooting their own feet with it... thread safety never comes without carefully thinking through what's going on... this discussion has a proposed solution: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/310204 08:07:16 tcr, yes :/ 08:07:30 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-109-110.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:17 attila_lendvai: hi, :) well, when using SMP, you should always be careful about not to shoot your feet. e.g. create a local special binding that copies the list/arrary/struct/whatsoever. 08:09:43 attila_lendvai: not SMP, shared-memory model multiprocessing. 08:10:36 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:10:41 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:11:14 attila_lendvai: but having two forms of multiprocessing in different semantics is a very bad idea. 08:11:42 -!- cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-109-110.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:12:19 huangjs, btw, if you are still looking for cl web libs then we have our framework running at http://dwim.hu (the site is very much v0.001, but the framework part behind it is getting quite useful) 08:13:17 huangjs, well, i didn't follow the discussion, but fork on sbcl will error if there are multiple threads (pending TODO) 08:13:40 attila_lendvai: Currently I'm not doing web applications. But it's always pleasant to read your code, I'll definitely have a look at it. :) Thanks. 08:13:54 attila_lendvai: i'm using "1.0.32.30" 08:15:01 attila_lendvai: and it's not always necessary to run SBCL in multi-threaded way. 08:15:40 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:16:57 attila_lendvai: btw, where can I check out the source code? 08:17:13 and while we are at it, we have quite good experiences with sbcl stability in recent releases in heavily threaded code 08:17:24 huangjs, go to documentation/install guide in the menu 08:17:28 attila_lendvai: ok 08:17:56 huangjs, i suggest to check out the live repos (the ones running dwim.hu), because that codebase is much more stable than head (and lags a bit behind) 08:18:19 attila_lendvai: ok 08:19:57 er... c-l.net is down. try tomorrow 08:20:21 *attila_lendvai* should really push his changes to the live install guide... 08:23:39 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:24:06 winxordie [n=winxordi@n128-227-53-232.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #lisp 08:27:51 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:28:40 drewc: c-l.net is down 08:30:59 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 08:35:42 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:38:39 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:39:09 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has joined #lisp 08:48:40 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:51:20 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:51:48 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:53:17 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:53:54 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Success] 08:54:58 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:55:15 triyo [i=c636caf6@gateway/web/freenode/x-bqbbjnixbjeltipl] has joined #lisp 08:56:41 I have installed asdf-install successfully, however I seem to be getting an error after download a package (For example: (asdf-install:install 'md5)) -> ASDF-INSTALL: Loading system ASDF-INSTALL::MD5 via ASDF ... Error: Error component "md5" not found 08:57:23 Is it that asdf:*central-registry* doesn't have correct location of installed package or something? 08:57:35 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:58:02 damn, someone killed minion 08:58:02 ok, end of the world..... i'm on it 08:58:44 triyo: http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/ (unfortunately c-l.net is down) 08:59:19 p_l: everybody seems to be behind the clbuild :-) 08:59:30 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.117.137] has joined #lisp 08:59:58 triyo: because our release ethic is horrible and we want to just give a link to repo :> 09:00:29 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:01:05 p_l: I am quite new to CL, is there simple way to get the prereqesit(s) installed for clbuild? 09:01:22 triyo: what platform? 09:01:25 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:01:31 Mac OS X 09:01:53 Is a macports package for it? :) 09:02:13 triyo: install git, darcs, cvs, mercurial and subversion 09:02:43 p_l: darcs? The Haskel lib? 09:02:50 then install CCL from http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ and follow instructions on clbuild webpage 09:03:15 p_l: I have ccl installed and setup correctly. 09:03:15 triyo: those are version control systems necessary to access all packages 09:04:37 p_l: I have all pkg managers except darcs. 09:05:15 triyo: then grab darcs, either from ports or static binary 09:05:51 Ok, then after that I take I wait for c-l.net to come back up? :) 09:06:01 unfortunately yes 09:07:13 grrr... Error: Target org.macports.fetch returned: ghc is not yet supported on Mac OS X 10.6.x (SnowLeopard) .... thats macports 09:08:06 p_l: I have ghc installed from source on my machine though, so I can prob get the source for darcs and build it 09:08:31 oh, if you have GHC running, then no problems :D 09:08:52 I usually tend to tell people to avoid building or installing GHC unless they actually want to use it 09:09:30 p_l: guess I had to :> 09:10:17 can everyone hit cl-net at once and let me know it's ok? 09:10:27 lol 09:10:46 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:11:05 drewc: does it filter pings? 09:11:26 maybe thats why its down, I spent the whole morning hitting c-l.net 09:12:01 I have several functions which need to modify a given plist. But a (setf (getf)) on a local binding does not guarantee that the original plist is modified. What are the available options to do this ? 09:12:22 All the solutions I can find are ugly. Like encapsulate the plist into a dummy cons, so that original plist is correctly modified by (setf (getf (cons plist) key) value) 09:12:40 Or make all of the functions as macros to use the original place. 09:12:42 Xantoz: apropos mindstorms & lisp - yes nxt is supported, too. i hope that controlling the robot is possible with lisp under linux, too. 09:13:24 (good morning btw) 09:13:30 -!- shrughes [n=shrughes@c-76-118-177-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:16:04 -!- smaxarang [n=user@91.190.137.236] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:16:24 kuwabara: Don't. Return the new plist 09:16:54 p_l: no, it should ping 09:18:29 kuwabara: I consider modifying data without returning the new data bad style because it detaches data flow from control flow unnecessarily 09:19:45 tcr: your solution complicates the caller, but it is much better anyway than my solutions. thanks. 09:20:36 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:39 kuwabara: Well most often it's a new binding, or a setq if you're poor on indention 09:20:53 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-132-170.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 09:21:04 drewc: ok, I put a ping on it :) 09:23:37 *drewc* is not having a good day 09:23:55 now it's there, yes? 09:24:08 levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-94-44-14-126.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 09:25:06 <_deepfire> drewc, pingwise -- yes, can't make a HTTP connection from two different locations. 09:25:26 it's up from here 09:26:02 <_deepfire> appeared from the POV of one location 09:26:27 <_deepfire> ...likewise from the second locatin 09:26:31 <_deepfire> *location 09:26:51 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:27:20 <_deepfire> seems responsive now 09:27:48 its back up 09:28:27 <_deepfire> drewc, good job, thanks! 09:32:06 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable065.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:32:19 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable065.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:32:29 pkhuong_ [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:32:33 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:33:23 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:34:09 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:35:30 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:39:09 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:37 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:44:13 whoppix_ [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:44:57 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-92-195-41-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46:17 -!- envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:46:47 If I started an sbcl build, can I modify the sources file and be sure the modification won't affect the build? 09:47:30 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Operation timed out] 09:48:58 -!- ace4016 [n=dante401@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 09:49:47 -!- MoALTz [n=heh@92.16.202.182] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:54:21 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:55:25 -!- triyo [i=c636caf6@gateway/web/freenode/x-bqbbjnixbjeltipl] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 09:58:45 Krystof [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:00:40 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-106-45.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:00:52 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 10:01:40 -!- maus [n=maus@222.253.109.14] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:07:08 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:08:04 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 10:12:39 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:13:24 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:14:12 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:16:17 -!- quek [n=read_eva@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has left #lisp 10:22:22 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 10:22:33 Joreji [n=thomas@45-242.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:23:42 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:26:45 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:30:11 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:31:33 triyo [i=c419ffc3@gateway/web/freenode/x-kpazewbsaixnabgp] has joined #lisp 10:33:27 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:33:45 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 10:34:12 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:34:18 Trying to install clbuild. I got this error when running ./clbuild check -> ./clbuild: line 1280: --disable-debugger: command not found Error: Cannot run Lisp using "" 10:34:38 How do I tell clbuild that I am running ccl on my machine? 10:37:11 triyo: clbuild.conf 10:37:22 (info in comments) 10:37:56 p_1: thx 10:38:49 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:40:45 G'day! 10:41:50 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:42:52 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.79.63] has joined #lisp 10:49:31 yo 10:50:28 no-one's released any software since sbcl 1.0.33? That's terrible! 10:50:32 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:50:51 also, no-one has redditted my highly-informative and useful blog posts 10:51:26 jtza8_ [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-75-80.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:52:48 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:52:50 yay I begin to see the point of sb-xc schism as I'm burned by package locks 10:54:53 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.241.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:56:07 Krystof: fwiw, ECL 9.12.2 is out now 10:56:09 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:56:24 then someone should put it in the /topic 10:56:50 -!- arbscht_ changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.33, ECL 9.12.2 10:57:16 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 10:57:35 newer releases are usually at the beginning 10:58:03 -!- arbscht_ changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ECL 9.12.2, SBCL 1.0.33 10:58:31 *arbscht_* was not aware of topic endianness :) 10:58:53 -!- arbscht_ is now known as arbscht 10:59:19 cool 10:59:24 Ok why do I get package-lock violation when I move the (setf gethash) from target-hash-table to early-setf? 11:00:25 hm perhaps because target-hash-table is :not-host? 11:00:59 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:01:35 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:06:19 c|mell [n=cmell@internet-95-159-201-170.narocnik.mobitel.si] has joined #lisp 11:07:12 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-42-2.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:10:32 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:10:57 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-142-68.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:11:20 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:15:31 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has quit [Success] 11:17:16 perdix [n=perdix@g225192246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:18:06 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has joined #lisp 11:18:41 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:08 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:25:22 -!- triyo [i=c419ffc3@gateway/web/freenode/x-kpazewbsaixnabgp] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 11:26:07 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:31:44 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has joined #lisp 11:32:12 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:33:17 hello 11:40:03 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-209-166.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 11:40:53 joga_ [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 11:44:04 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:44:29 -!- joga [n=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:47:55 -!- redblue [i=life@ppp050.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:48:20 -!- joga_ is now known as joga 11:50:41 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:50:45 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C6CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:36 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:54:33 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:55:28 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:56:12 BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:56:27 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:59:27 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 12:01:15 -!- BSand [n=Sand@dsl-240-191-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:01:48 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@internet-95-159-201-170.narocnik.mobitel.si] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:02:21 Transformer [n=Transfor@ool-43563460.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:06 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:03:34 ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-0-22.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:06:36 -!- Transformer [n=Transfor@ool-43563460.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 12:17:01 -!- moah [n=gnu@dslb-188-101-016-136.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 12:17:24 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 12:19:29 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 12:22:00 how do i snarf a text file as a string 12:23:40 YuleAthas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:25:52 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has joined #lisp 12:25:52 dto: you could load it into a (vector (unsigned-byte 8) *) and convert that to a string using the appropriate encoding 12:26:00 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:26:13 -!- eaumontab [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:26:13 one of them libraries can do it 12:26:28 pjb [n=t@53.Red-88-30-122.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:32 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has joined #lisp 12:27:01 and babel can convert from/to (unsigned-byte 8) arrays 12:27:29 dto: or alexandria:read-file-into-string 12:28:17 G'morning all. 12:28:26 hi nyef 12:28:32 morning. 12:28:46 not much of a morning on this side of the globe, though. 12:28:47 Mahlzeit! 12:31:30 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.117.137] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:33:26 benny` [n=benny@i577A3BAE.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:36:41 joga_ [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 12:37:02 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:38:08 Axius [n=ade@92.82.64.128] has joined #lisp 12:38:25 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.82.64.128] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:39:59 -!- joga_ [i=joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:41:11 -!- udzinari` [n=user@nat/ibm/x-ksjpzbzdrtknbvso] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:41:30 joga [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 12:41:46 lispm: remember that documentation you linked to? 12:42:39 lispm: i have greatly expanded and reorganized it and programmed a tool to extract docstrings from functions, variables, fields of my custom object system, and methods of said object system, and the bulk of the file is now a symbol dictionary for the package 12:42:48 lispm: http://dto.github.com/notebook/xe2-reference.html 12:43:32 joswig [n=joswig@g224120041.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:45:24 lispm: it contains further links to the source code in some spots, this isn't yet fully done 12:45:27 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-48-219.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:34 hi adeht 12:45:45 weren't you thinking about entering the games competition? 12:45:47 hey dto, what's up? 12:46:01 Jafet [n=Jafet@1.247.48.60.kmr02-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 12:47:47 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:48:07 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A322B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:48:10 Hrm. A quick survey of my src/games directories looking for lisp stuff shows some wireframe dungeon crawl from 2004 and something written in a horrific abuse of SBCL's assembler in 2006. 12:48:44 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:49:03 Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has joined #lisp 12:49:20 dto: what game competition? 12:49:41 dto: I don't think I'll go for it this time, because I am working on basic tools for my current game.. for the next compo, I will have those tools ready and so can do much more in 7 days :) 12:49:47 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177147067.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:49:49 http://lispgamesdev.blogspot.com/2009/11/lisp-games-compo.html 12:50:55 <_deepfire> It strikes me that &aux is a smart thing, actually. 12:51:03 -!- benny` is now known as benny 12:51:23 (use emacs as your platform!) 12:51:37 _deepfire: Given how much deprecation I've seen of it here, would you like to explain why it's actually good? 12:51:56 in boa constructors, if only 12:52:24 <_deepfire> &aux list gives you a vehicle to hint the user about how you will interpret his arguments. 12:52:30 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:52:40 <_deepfire> I mean, it can be a part of the API. 12:52:54 <_deepfire> For example: 12:53:13 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:25 <_deepfire> (defun find-system (name &aux (real-name (coerce-to-name nam))) ... 12:53:46 <_deepfire> And if COERCE-TO-NAME is already part of your API -- this brings clarity. 12:53:46 So... things that should be in the docstring anyway? 12:54:11 <_deepfire> This is more explicit than a docstring. 12:54:18 And, as it's not really an argument, it shouldn't show up in arglist hinting anyway... 12:54:22 <_deepfire> And it refers to the docstring of coerce-to-name. 12:54:42 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:48 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:55 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:37 I find your reasoning to be uncompelling, but it's an interesting argument. 12:56:20 -!- joga [i=joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:56:34 <_deepfire> Arglist hinting as is implemented in emacs is, quite frankly, dismal. 12:57:25 <_deepfire> Automatic line-wise expansion of the arglist display area would be an obvious first step. 12:58:06 <_deepfire> As long as you cherish the 80-char-long arglist display space -- I can perfetcly relate to &aux not quite fitting in the picture. 12:58:18 <_deepfire> *perfectly 12:58:48 80-char-long? 12:59:31 <_deepfire> adeht, people seem to like 80-char-wide code, narrow Emacs windows etc. 13:00:17 -!- winxordie [n=winxordi@n128-227-53-232.xlate.ufl.edu] has left #lisp 13:00:29 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:00:29 yeah, but the display space is as many chars as can be put on the modeline.. it's weird that it doesn't expand it once it goes past it, yeah 13:00:31 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:02:06 Axius [n=ade@92.82.64.128] has joined #lisp 13:03:04 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.82.64.128] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:06:34 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:44 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 13:06:45 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:08:34 dto, I see 13:09:10 joga [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 13:09:14 -!- joswig [n=joswig@g224120041.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:09:19 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-232-46.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:12:34 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:16:01 gigamonkey: blog down? 13:17:15 davazp [n=user@206.Red-88-25-187.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:43 angerman [n=angerman@host41.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:30 ikki [n=ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 13:21:30 mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:10 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757f0a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:39 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:29:43 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:22 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:37:43 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:37:56 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:41 -!- mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:43:31 shrughes [n=shrughes@c-76-118-177-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:38 -!- kerimbasol_ [n=kerim@85.107.151.240] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:54:33 marioxcc [n=user@200.56.148.239] has joined #lisp 13:55:53 can I get an equivalent for (format nil "~:D" number) that doesn't go into scientific notation for large numbers? (I would like comma delimited large numbers) 13:57:06 nunb: it should not use scientific notation for large integers. 13:57:11 nunb: are you using floats? 13:58:28 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:44 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 13:59:49 yes, I am. I guess I must be multiplying by a float somewhere, I'll look 13:59:54 Xach: Thanks 14:04:03 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 14:04:43 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 14:08:30 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:08:33 _deepfire: the echo area does not need to be only one line 14:08:49 _deepfire: and really what you actually should do is to introduce an exproted type name-designator 14:09:01 exorted* 14:09:12 then declare the ftypes of your exported functions accordingly 14:11:22 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:12:33 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-30-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:13:29 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.202.5] has joined #lisp 14:15:06 pr_ [n=pr@p579CACA9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:50 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:15:57 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@1.247.48.60.kmr02-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 14:16:09 -!- Jafet1 is now known as Jafet 14:16:45 <_deepfire> tcr, but coerce-to-name is just a particular case, whereas the point was more general 14:19:14 <_deepfire> tcr, also, ftypes aren't really seen on paper, if you choose to use lambda lists as API documentation 14:19:27 <_deepfire> (As is often done, although, mostly in a hypertext-enabled way.) 14:19:44 <_deepfire> The advantage of &aux is that it is very explicit. 14:20:03 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-172-115.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:54 it's too explicit, consumes too much space etc. Really you want types, and a documentation generation tool which DTRT with types 14:21:20 and also possibly C-c C-d t (slime-show-ftype) 14:22:14 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 14:23:27 rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:50 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 14:27:18 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:20 <_deepfire> tcr, actually, I mostly agree 14:30:35 davazp` [n=user@206.Red-88-25-187.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:45 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:30:48 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633626.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:30:54 <_deepfire> I still think that there is a corner for its use, from a documentation standpoint, just smaller than I thought before you made your points :-) 14:31:08 ikki [n=ikki@200.95.162.52] has joined #lisp 14:31:43 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@122.181.150.106] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:32:33 -!- davazp [n=user@206.Red-88-25-187.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:38:15 &aux (*read-eval* nil) 14:41:45 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:42:12 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 14:43:06 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-106-45.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:44:28 Nshag [i=user@lns-bzn-35-82-250-241-252.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:33 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 14:45:16 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:45:57 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:46:52 jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-79-20.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:50:20 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:52:58 -!- davazp` [n=user@206.Red-88-25-187.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:53:02 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Boot me gently"] 14:55:45 <_deepfire> Nice one! 14:56:04 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:58:54 Maybe the minimal solution is for slime to show a mixed ftype-and-arglist display when ftype information is available. 14:59:14 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:00:22 nyef: fixed a couple constant "7" in your branch. 15:00:35 pkhuong: Cool. Where? 15:01:13 Don't remember. Still going through grep's output. 15:01:15 Hmm.speaking of slime, and emacs - when editing common lisp code, the parens aren't highlighted like they are with elisp when the cursor goes over closing parens. Is there an option that anyone knows to add this? 15:01:18 Ah. 15:01:52 TDT: (setq show-paren-mode t) or similar 15:02:30 Thanks xach 15:02:43 hi Xach 15:02:52 hi dto 15:03:02 dto: i hope you don't have to change your nickname due to name clashes next :( 15:03:08 *Xach* has grown accustomed to dto 15:03:28 nope :) 15:03:31 do, 15:03:32 so, 15:03:57 -!- jtza8_ [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-75-80.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:04:01 Xach: , i org-infofied and updated and auto-extracted and improved my documentation. http://dto.github.com/notebook/xe2-reference.html 15:04:15 Oh, wow. widetag-of is completely screwed. 15:04:50 nyef: oh right. 15:06:10 dto: i like the info so far! the presentation hurts a little but the info is good. 15:06:23 hurts eh? is it the javascripts stuff 15:07:00 dto: it took about 30 seconds for my browser, at 100% cpu, to load it 15:07:11 ok, i'm going to cancel that :( 15:07:30 dto: and a minor thing, each section is so small that the repeated footer (author, date, colophon) seems unnecessary... 15:08:04 i'm going to re-upload without all the js info 15:08:49 I added, incase others need to know this: (add-hook 'lisp-mode-hook (lambda () (progn (slime-mode t) (show-paren-mode t) (setq show-paren-delay 0)))) to emacs for the color parens, thanks Xach for the syntax before. 15:09:00 Xach: try loading it now 15:09:14 TDT: you neither need the progn nor the slime-mode 15:09:50 tcr: Good point on the progn, the slime-mode was recommended from the emacswiki that I read quite some time ago. 15:10:01 dto: much faster 15:10:10 ... How important is it that widetag-of return 0 for all fixnums? 15:10:15 yeah, and the short sections make org-info.js annoying 15:10:31 nyef: I'm not sure anything uses widetag-of. 15:10:42 Xach: how do you like my alien logo :) 15:11:04 TDT: slime-setup does activate the slime-mode already 15:11:20 Array, debug-int, kernel, print, target-type and x86-vm do, and that's just in src/code/. 15:11:25 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@45-242.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:11:31 nyef: %test-headers is too weird for me. I think it assumes bignum-widetag is 0 or something. 15:11:49 dto: the jellyfish thing? i thought at first it was a kind of moonballoon 15:11:57 nyef: on things that aren't already known to be pointerful? 15:11:59 hahaha 15:12:11 arnee [n=arnee@mail.kono.de] has joined #lisp 15:12:20 -!- pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:12:24 dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-132-170.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:31 it assumes that bignum-widetag is the first 15:12:42 maybe i will name him "jelly" to make it more obvious. or maybe i will improve the drawing 15:12:46 and it does some clever things 15:12:50 not very clever, but clever 15:12:54 -!- arnee [n=arnee@mail.kono.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:13:11 arnee [n=arnee@p4FDE9792.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:13:14 Assumption not violated then (: 15:13:20 -!- arnee [n=arnee@p4FDE9792.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:14:14 (format nil "~:D" (/ 5625225003030303030303 1)) => "5,625,225,003,030,303,030,303" 15:14:14 (format nil "~:D" (/ 5625225003030303030303 2)) =>"5625225003030303030303/2" 15:14:14 15:14:31 arnee [n=arnee@p4FDE9792.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:43 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:14:56 mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:00 nunb: what's the problem? 15:15:03 Hrm... Only use of widetag-of that might be a concern is in layout-of. 15:15:14 -!- arnee [n=arnee@p4FDE9792.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:15:16 any way to combine the two directives? I am trying to do currency calculations, so although I can avoid floats, I cannot avoid ratio s 15:15:31 adeht: I would like to see 5,625,225.00 15:17:10 Okay, I'm not worried about lowtag-of anymore, it can safely return the full gamut of fixnum tags. 15:17:27 Err... widetag-of. 15:17:57 I'm not sure how that relates to your code.. do you want to, say, use floor and trim the result? 15:18:37 I think we need a constant for the lowtag bit that indicates pointerness in non-fixnums. 15:18:55 Yes, I guess processing the whole part separately (to get , as a thousands separator) and the part after the decimal pt. is the solution. 15:19:10 I was wondering if there was a format directive I wasn't aware of that would do it for me! 15:20:27 nyef: , but it's got some unrelated changes and notes to self. 15:21:01 (unrelated cosmetic changes) 15:21:06 Thanks. 15:21:52 Yeah, the widetag-of thing needs to have that constant bumped to 2 and should be symbolic anyway, and the fixnum tag test comes first, and the fixnum tag test change to a TEST instead of an AND. 15:22:59 s7nf [n=s7nf@BSN-176-179-64.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:29 re LEA not doing subtractions, neg/lea/neg is probably faster than shift/sub/shift. 15:25:05 milanj [n=milan@93.87.151.14] has joined #lisp 15:25:11 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:13 nunb: I would look into LC_MONETARY 15:27:53 moah [n=gnu@dslb-084-063-190-243.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:21 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:29:30 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:31:14 We could benchmark it, I guess, but either way it's not a great situation. 15:31:50 saves a couple bytes ;) 15:32:10 Fair enough. 15:37:13 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-206-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:37:57 For the float array accessors, the reason I left the single-float case using dword-index was that it would still work on a 61-bit-fixnum system. 15:39:38 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-30-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:56 adeht: does format respect the locale? (I presume you mean, set locale, then use "~$") 15:40:00 I do that during cleanup (: 15:40:27 ... n-word-bytes in make-array-header? Really? 15:41:07 adeht pasted "format-monetary-value *example*" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91580 15:41:53 just an example, not a macro for actual use 15:41:53 -!- sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:42:06 nyef: erh, yeah, bad autocompletion 15:45:23 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:48:42 -!- ASau_ [n=user@host186-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 15:49:26 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 15:50:51 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:42 the big problem with strfmon is that it takes doubles.. so a high-quality solution would be to write something like it that uses integers 15:51:49 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:52:17 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 15:53:11 adeht: am I correct in assuming it does a system call each time? 15:54:13 don't know, look at the implementation of your strfmon 15:54:54 (or use strace :) 15:55:34 -!- ikki [n=ikki@200.95.162.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:55:43 well, strace can't give you an answer for "each time".. 15:55:56 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:58:24 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:58:34 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 15:59:10 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:19 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 16:02:49 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:04:10 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 16:04:39 pkhuong: Just tried a full build, and it got further. Looks like a possible keyword argument parsing failure now. 16:05:34 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:05:37 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:05:53 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:06:22 adeht: would rewriting the logic of strfmon in CL be a good solution? Is there a general library I could add such a fn. to? 16:08:15 nunb: I don't know of such library, and I think it would be hard to do it right.. if you're not working with really large numbers, strfmon should suffice 16:08:57 Dying in %make-fun-type, (tail-?) called from make-fun-type. 16:10:32 -!- legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-22-196.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:13:17 rrice [n=rrice@adsl-99-164-45-53.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:41 <_deepfire> Is there a way to reduce emacs' fail wrt. indenting #\; ? 16:14:30 nostoi [n=nostoi@206.Red-79-156-52.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:50 deepfire: fail? 16:14:50 <_deepfire> Single-semicolon comments, that is.. 16:15:41 Where's the fail? 16:15:44 <_deepfire> adeht, spec says such comments go to a fixed column, whereas emacs column choice seems to be fairly random. 16:16:28 <_deepfire> Maybe it is slime's fail, not sure. 16:16:51 it goes to a fixed col unless the line is too long 16:17:01 _deepfire: Have a look at comment-column, comment-fill-column, and fill-column. 16:17:25 <_deepfire> nyef, thanks! 16:17:48 (Amazing what you can find with M-x apropos-variable, isn't it?) 16:18:43 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:19:56 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-47-49.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:19:58 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-47-49.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:06 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-092-075-038-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:09 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-092-075-038-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:21:40 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-092-075-038-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:19 <_deepfire> Well, I set both comment-column and comment-fill-column to 70, better, but still some comments end up on a column <70. 16:23:49 <_deepfire> Aha, got it. It's right-justified. 16:25:05 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:26:24 Okay, somthing is wrong in the calling convention around applied &rest args. 16:26:40 Plamen [n=pkfrey@194-158-251-71.static.adslpremium.ch] has joined #lisp 16:27:25 nyef pasted "Minimal test cases for xc problems are nice." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91584 16:27:43 nyef annotated #91584 "output received" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91584#1 16:28:32 nyef: is it late enough for /show to work then? 16:29:11 Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:29:30 Umm... /show has almost no dependencies. To the point that if !cold-init starts with a /show, it'll work. 16:29:40 Or maybe a /show0, not sure. 16:29:54 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:30:02 Still, I actually used the xc test framework for something, so I'm happy. 16:30:59 I'm trying to pin down what I think might be a bug in SBCL with git bisect. However many of the versions of SBCL that are pulled won't compile for me (sh make.sh fails). The versions are about 1.0.21 through about 1.0.24.x. The errors are different, but are usually lisp errors; the latest (1.0.24.31) says "The value 0 is not of type (INTEGER 1 1152921504606846972)." Without getting into debugging old versions of SBCL, is there a known workaround for this? 16:31:24 LiamH: look for a vector-push-extend with an extension of 0. 16:31:33 LiamH: Yeah, start with a cross-compile host that's older than the oldest version you're trying to bisect. 16:32:34 LiamH: 1.0.26.20 has the relevant patch in constraints. You should be able to backport it easily. 16:33:04 (Or you could just use an older host, which would simplify bisection a bit.) 16:33:26 nyef: bisect applies patches against HEAD implicitly. 16:33:36 Ah, okay. 16:33:39 c|mell [n=cmell@mail.souhostel.si] has joined #lisp 16:33:42 LiamH: when SBCL fails to compile for me it's more often than not solve by running clean.sh... dunno if that's part of you process already... 16:33:45 nyef: can you paste the disassembly? 16:33:54 tsuru: yes, already running clean 16:34:37 nyef annotated #91584 "The disassembly, which probably won't show the bug" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91584#2 16:35:00 pkhuong, nyef: So in summary I want to get the patch from 1.0.26.20 and apply it to every version git bisect gives me? 16:35:43 stassats [n=stassats@92-100-254-65.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 16:36:03 pkhuong: Found it. tail-call-variable in assem-rtns. 16:36:03 Joreji [n=thomas@45-242.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:36:11 nyef: argh, nice. 16:36:20 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-231.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:36:48 LiamH: start the bisection somewhere early (before 1.0.26.20), and manually apply the patch in constraints. Then git-bisect should attempt to replay your changes automatically. 16:37:36 pkhuong: OK, I'll try. I'm new to git bisect though. 16:38:41 KatchaFire [n=bernie@bas33-4-88-180-245-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:31 jetzt hab ich 300 :P 16:40:35 sry 16:43:57 fusss [n=fusss@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 16:44:04 -!- mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:44:07 Okay, that's one more down. Now it's dying in %make-core-component. 16:44:12 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:14 skv [n=sasha@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 16:44:37 Or maybe make-core-component. 16:44:40 not entirely sure yet. 16:44:42 anyone else implemented "cl-redis", Redis bindings for Common Lisp, or is just me, Vsevolod and Numair? 16:45:09 There's one in the CMUCL ai repo 16:45:11 pkhuong: Do I want to cherry-pick the 1.0.26.20 patch onto whatever bisect gives me at each bisect step? 16:45:18 -!- timor1 [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:45:38 nyef annotated #91584 "fix for tail-call-variable" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91584#3 16:45:55 LiamH: no, the change should be applied automatically; git diff to make sure. 16:46:29 pkhuong: Then i'm not clear on how to apply the change the first time. 16:46:42 *fusss* brb, some joker changed my IRC font to gothic Evenescence 72pt 16:46:43 LiamH: by hand (or cherry pick without committing). 16:46:46 -!- fusss [n=fusss@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #lisp 16:47:13 pkhuong: OK, got it. I had intended to cherry-pick without commiting; I didn't realize I only needed to do that once. 16:47:26 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 16:47:36 fusss [n=fusss@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 16:47:51 hmm 16:48:39 hope this looks better, comic sans, 12pt 16:51:12 nyef: %more-arg-values. 16:51:48 I missed a spot? 16:52:17 Ah, the any-reg case? 16:52:25 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.249.152] has joined #lisp 16:52:35 yup. 16:53:00 davazp [n=user@206.Red-88-25-187.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:02 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["May the Coyoes cook you some hot chili some day!"] 16:53:10 p_l, rsynnott: seen this? http://www.cliki.net/Tokyo%20Cabinet 16:53:18 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:38 pragma__ [n=pragma@blackshell.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:56 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:00:18 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:00:52 clop2 [n=jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:55 fox 17:02:04 fusss: now I have seen it. I have to say, my bindings are slightly more finished despite not touching them in a long time ^^; 17:03:15 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@mail.souhostel.si] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:03:38 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32DDED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:33 clim sheet-direct-mirror 17:04:33 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/9-4.html#_489 17:04:39 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 17:06:40 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:49 There are about 8 Gtk bindings in http://www.cliki.net/GTK%20binding; I am not sure if it's worth it to link to trivial-gtk as well 17:08:49 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:12 mutew [n=mutew@128.220.251.38] has joined #lisp 17:09:23 the two newest ones look like the best candidates - both simply map GTK object model 17:09:45 -!- pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:10:06 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:10:47 p_l: which ones are those? 17:11:11 I might need to get back to gtk just to have something checked out as "working on clozure win32" 17:11:42 fusss: oh, cool :) (at the TC binding) 17:12:11 rsynnott: and there are 3 redis clients that I know of 17:13:12 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:13:17 rsynnott: my old bindings have similar functionality right now (the tokyo(cabinet|tyrant|diaspora)-sys package) 17:13:35 *dystopida 17:14:25 *dystopia 17:15:20 rsynnott: http://github.com/unya/cl-tc <--- my old try, basically a mapping of all C interfaces to lisp and very early tries at lispy api 17:15:57 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:16:13 I started on a tyrant wire protocol library at some point, but got distracted :) 17:18:21 holycow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 17:18:42 -!- holycow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:19:02 holycow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 17:20:29 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:00 sctb [n=sctb@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:21 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 17:21:27 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:26:08 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-48-219.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:27:00 can i expand a macro in a lambda? 17:27:35 p_l: what did you use to generate the FFIs out of those headers? and what are the *.i files? 17:27:38 swig? 17:27:41 fusss: swig 17:28:16 except that I didn't use include statements to generate them, they contain verbatim definitions from include files 17:28:36 (there were issues with proper interpretation of certain stuff) 17:29:07 -!- levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-94-44-14-126.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 17:29:44 frontiers [n=frontier@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:10 nvm 17:30:26 NNshag [i=user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-155-185.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:27 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:31:14 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@206.Red-79-156-52.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 17:31:59 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 17:32:42 -!- whoppix_ is now known as whoppix 17:33:57 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:34:09 smithzv [n=smithzv@c-98-245-87-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:15 Is there any reason for Swank to kill the Lisp image when the server is stopped? 17:37:45 how old is your slime? 17:37:55 Months by now 17:38:10 then that's a bug that was fixed 17:38:18 okay, thanks 17:38:34 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:38:46 -!- Nshag [i=user@lns-bzn-35-82-250-241-252.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:38:47 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-209-166.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:40:08 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:34 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A075.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:41:40 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 17:44:47 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:45:57 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-88-193.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:46:19 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-24-135.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:47:00 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:47:42 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-75-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:47:46 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:47:52 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-qrvxzazgxivxqhla] has joined #lisp 17:50:51 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-C2F2E195.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 17:52:00 cyberhuman [n=xvro@imx194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:54:08 -!- sctb [n=sctb@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:54:54 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:55:58 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 17:56:07 snearch [n=olaf@e179129163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:59:19 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:29 mutew_ [n=mutew@128.220.251.38] has joined #lisp 17:59:44 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:50 insane; cl-gtk2 is said to be tested on mac and linux only and I just built it on Win32 clozure; zero change! 18:00:16 fusss: high-five! 18:00:18 Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:00:41 :-) 18:00:48 dnolen [n=dnolen@pool-70-107-130-254.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:08 k3ice [n=k3@59.92.12.146] has joined #lisp 18:01:22 -!- k3ice [n=k3@59.92.12.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:03:18 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 18:03:27 -!- nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:04:15 -!- KatchaFire [n=bernie@bas33-4-88-180-245-209.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 18:04:28 nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:07:35 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-47-49.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:07:36 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-xrymulwtoyhkjhrx] has joined #lisp 18:08:06 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 18:10:06 -!- mutew [n=mutew@128.220.251.38] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:11:13 -!- nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:12:16 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-115-213.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 18:14:30 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:15:33 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:17:25 Wow. This is the first time I've tried to use a method combination to any serious degree, and I'm out of my depth already. 18:18:58 -!- pragma__ is now known as pragma_ 18:19:45 nyef: what did you use it for ? 18:20:01 Parent-child relationships in a tree structure. 18:20:17 I haven't even compiled the code yet. 18:21:52 I have a two-argument generic function (implcitly declared). All of my methods specialize on one or the other argument, but not both. 18:22:42 What I want is to call the method most specifc on the first argument, and if that method does a call-next-method to invoke the method most specific on the second argument. 18:23:17 I am not sure if I am getting this right, with sbcl I get fine-grained "skip loading form" resarts when a foreign library doesn' export a certain symbol, but with ccl I am getting "skip file" 18:23:21 And I have no idea if that's the default behavior of the standard combination or if I need qualifiers or anything. 18:27:58 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 18:28:56 ... I think I want to use :around qualifiers for the methods specializing on the first argument. 18:29:34 Umm... Unless I don't. 18:29:58 ruediger_ [n=quassel@188-23-95-89.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:30:11 -!- nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:30:17 nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:49 nyef, would these all be "primary" methods? 18:31:03 Right now they are. 18:31:37 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-70-96.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:32:05 -!- ruediger_ [n=quassel@188-23-95-89.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:32:23 -!- fusss [n=fusss@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #lisp 18:33:38 I have a class A, and a subclass B. I have a generic function (gf arg1 arg2) and methods (gf (arg1 A) arg2), (gf (arg1 B) arg2), and (gf arg1 (arg2 something)). 18:34:36 If I call (gf ), I want the first method to fire. If I call (gf ), I want the second method to fire, invoke call-next-method, and end up calling the third method. 18:34:43 And not the first method. 18:35:13 nyef: why not two gfs? 18:35:36 Because it's two parts of the same operation? 18:36:59 well, it gets further: segfault (: 18:37:11 Ooh. 18:37:19 Past !pprint-cold-init? 18:37:59 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:40:16 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:41:00 *nyef* goes and finds his copy of Keene. 18:41:47 roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 18:42:07 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:57 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.249.152] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:43:37 Sumpen [n=Sumpen@78-72-33-106-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:07 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-0-22.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:46:18 -!- mutew_ [n=mutew@128.220.251.38] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:46:28 Ah! If I invert my proposed control flow and swap the argument precedence order, this all should work out on the standard method combination. 18:47:21 jtza8_ [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-40-35.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:47:52 lispm [n=joswig@g224120041.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:51:58 Hrm. That doesn't work. Maybe separate functions makes the most sense. 18:53:48 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-79-20.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:56:05 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 18:58:17 -!- Aviado [n=jack@75-30-250-33.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 18:59:31 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:59:53 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:19 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:33 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:50 nyef, this is pretty easy to do if you qualify the methods 19:01:17 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-C2F2E195.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 19:01:25 Yeah, I just got to that point in the book. 19:01:34 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:01:55 Throw :around qualifiers on the methods that actually do stuff, and don't call-next-method to get as far as the primary? 19:02:16 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:40 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-232-46.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 19:03:47 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-232-46.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:04:21 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-106-45.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:06:21 c|mell [n=cmell@lk.84.20.228.118.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:27 rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:36 -!- rares [n=rares@174-22-225-229.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 19:10:37 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has quit ["Valete!"] 19:12:25 Adlai pasted "define-method-combination nyef" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91594 19:12:49 agh, messed up the example 19:13:13 Adlai annotated #91594 "Corrected example code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91594#1 19:14:11 Ah, so that's how that works. Thanks. 19:16:02 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-109-166.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:29 sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:18:52 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:19:19 mutew [n=mutew@128.220.159.20] has joined #lisp 19:21:06 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:23:35 Adlai annotated #91594 "Overkill is our business" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91594#2 19:23:39 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-216-235.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 19:23:56 nyef, see the above, just for fun :) 19:24:06 -!- snearch [n=olaf@e179129163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:24:16 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-77-44.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:04 (that is adapted from an example in CLHS) 19:26:10 snearch_ [n=olaf@g225059081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:27:35 -!- 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prxq [n=mommer@78.52.185.211] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:20:03 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@lk.84.20.228.118.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:20:11 -!- nachity [n=nachity@24-107-56-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:21:22 nachity [n=nachity@24-107-56-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:10 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:27 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:29:56 what should be main points for CL company presentation (company is mostly java/php and bit of ruby/python/scala) ? 20:30:20 dynamic nature of doing work, incremental compilation, slime, CLOS, conditions, macros .... 20:30:39 and of course they title it LISP presentation :) 20:31:36 milanj, "conditions" doesn't do justice to what we've got 20:31:53 you should at least call it "kickass conditions and rockin' restarts" 20:31:53 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-30-7.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:05 well, yes, i mean that :) 20:32:44 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 20:33:25 btw. it's not on my insisting (this presentation), they just noticed that i ordered couple of lisp related books so put me on social company talk, it's not that i' bugging ppl with CL :) 20:34:35 prxq [n=mommer@e176244210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:35:26 so wouldnt it be better to read those books first before giving the talk? ;) 20:35:26 at least they did not stop the book order 20:35:27 another item you can add: rapid development 20:35:52 you could steal some arguments from the PCL introduction 20:35:59 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:36:12 moah: that's so 1980s 20:36:36 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:36:46 arent the 80s in again? 20:36:49 moah, i have some expiriance wth lisp, and i read most of that books over internet 20:36:52 ... Bwah? (defmethod ancestor-p (node1 node2) (or (eq node1 node2) (with-slots (parent) node1 (if parent (ancestor-p parent node2) '()))) => style-warning: undefined function ancestor-p. 20:37:00 moah: you have a point 20:37:33 nyef: no defgeneric? 20:37:41 nyef, looks like the method-lambda is getting compiled before the genfun gets created 20:37:42 No defgeneric. 20:37:58 milanj: you can also steal bits from Paul Graham's advocacy 20:38:00 btw, did you see my amazing overkill? 20:38:10 Adlai: Yes, I did. Overkill indeed. 20:38:26 but fun nonetheless! 20:38:46 lispm, well, i just want technical talk :) 20:39:23 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:39:26 rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:37 -!- pr_ is now known as void 20:39:39 -!- rares [n=rares@174-26-7-168.phnx.qwest.net] has left #lisp 20:39:40 -!- void is now known as pr 20:40:01 milanj: typical argument structure: problem, lisp solution, what is the advantage, what does it mean for us 20:40:05 1 2 3 4 20:40:23 technical arguments need to be placed into a context 20:40:29 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-C2F2E195.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 20:41:03 -!- ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 20:41:15 hmm, yes 20:42:03 problem: long compile cycle, lisp does compile incrementally, application changes can be tested without waiting -> we save lots of time in the project 20:43:00 problem: making changes without downtime... 20:43:51 so many interesting topics .... 20:44:33 problem: lots of requirement changes during development, Lisp can generate code from specification level definitions, domain-level code that is easy and fast to maintain -> we can react faster to customer demands 20:44:44 i will figure somethig out .. i dont want to be laughed at :) 20:44:50 ;-) 20:45:15 problem: developers spend all their time talking to other developers; there aren't enough lispers around -> our developers will not talk so much and so will do more work 20:45:53 bgs100 [n=ian@h188.21.131.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:53 -!- YuleAthas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:46:01 Shamiq [n=Adium@24-155-205-80.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:14 problem: our hardware costs are up, lisp code is more dense, keyboards are longer usable -> less hardware costs 20:46:21 TR2N [i=email@89-180-185-187.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 20:46:28 That's an... interesting way to spin a small labor market... 20:46:29 -!- mutew [n=mutew@128.220.159.20] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:46:31 ... just let him some time to implement his own lisp :) 20:46:37 newbie question -- where can i read up on defining functions with keywords? 20:47:00 minion, tell Shamiq about PCL 20:47:01 Shamiq: have a look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 20:47:33 milanj: the typical question: hasn't Lisp been long superseded by X? 20:47:34 ah, durrr 20:47:35 thanks 20:47:58 you might want to make the presentation so that the listeners get an answer to that 20:48:02 http://l1sp.org/pcl/defun 20:48:06 -!- jewel [n=jewel@vc-41-29-214-169.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:48:14 Shamiq: that link is for you, too 20:48:40 lispm, nice idea 20:48:49 I was just reading a blog post where somebody was interested in Lisp, but was frightened that it is the second oldest programming language in use 20:49:06 well, CL is not 20:49:12 Xach, l1sp.org/pcl should have a special psychic detection that prevents people from using it until they've read all of PCL cover-to-cover first. 20:49:13 for example 20:49:48 ("My god, anything that old must be completely slow and unreadable, like fortran!") 20:49:58 but I hear lots of 'Haskell' has superseded Lisp and similar 20:50:34 Lisp and FORTRAN are both old, but there's a subtle difference between them 20:50:44 you can write fortran in any language, but you can write any language in Lisp. 20:51:06 You can write lisp in any language too. :p 20:51:18 There's no grand dichotomy here 20:51:31 Adlai: ... That reminds me of the story about the ski resort full of husbands looking for girls and girls looking for husbands. 20:51:37 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:51:52 heh 20:54:14 Interesting, I'm looking at an English conference paper with a German 'Inhaltsangabe' (Abstract) 21:02:06 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@194-144-58-124.du.xdsl.is] has quit [] 21:03:40 hm.... LET is an implicit block, right? 21:03:57 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:14 ah, nvm 21:04:16 got it. 21:11:12 -!- clop2 [n=jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:13:18 acieroid` [n=acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:08 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 21:15:26 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-106-45.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:15:40 kooll [n=samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:03 -!- koollman [n=samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:19:48 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:20:03 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:20:20 Axius [n=ade@92.84.21.102] has joined #lisp 21:20:20 nyef: that's funny. This afternoon I was thinking that since lisp is such an old language, we could try to re-use the implementation techniques of 40 or 50 years ago, and with the current processors, it might be even faster than the sophisticated techniques that have been developed more recently. A kind of "compiler RISC"... 21:20:21 Notice how using a-lists is faster than hash-tables, sometimes up to a surprising size. 21:20:23 So a CL implementation using old techniques might not be so slow, it could even beat some modern implementations... 21:21:25 punchcard:read 21:22:06 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:23 Of course, I was talking of software techniques, not hardware. 21:22:50 ... Right. Weren't said software techniques usually dependent on custom hardware? 21:22:51 -!- Stattrav [n=Stattrav@117.192.131.68] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:22:54 On the other hand, there's nothing more fun than a card reader/puncher, along with a sorter. 21:22:56 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.84.21.102] has quit [Client Quit] 21:23:11 nyef: not at all, lisp was implemented first on generic 704. 21:23:46 Contents of the Address part of a Register, anyone? 21:25:06 Or the ever-popular disk-based twospace GC... 21:26:08 It is not more exotic than the segment register and the offset registers of the ix86. 21:26:09 (It was nothing lisp specific, lisp wasn't invented when then designed this processor). 21:26:11 I've not said either to take ALL of these techniques. Just what would allow us to write a simple implementation that I'd bet would be faster than expected on current hardware. 21:26:19 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:26:42 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:57 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757f0a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:27:03 (fits-in-l1-cache-p #) => T? 21:27:10 -!- acieroid [n=acieroid@91.121.15.173] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:27:25 Probably; that's the idea! :-) 21:27:37 hedgehog 21:27:38 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757f0a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:42 That said, these days we tend to have more L1 cache than the high-end supercomputers did back then. 21:27:48 bah -- i'm not formatting my defun properly. halp! 21:27:52 s/did/did main memory/ 21:28:21 Shamiq pasted "keywords" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91615 21:28:54 Shamiq: you're not using emacs? 21:29:02 vim :S 21:29:11 Here is the error. 21:29:22 cdr coding 21:29:23 You're missing a close-paren for the defun proper. 21:29:30 Now, I've been told that vim is also able to match parentheses... 21:29:40 cdr coding is a waste of tag space. 21:29:56 i know i lost a paren at the end of my defun 21:29:58 There are very good reasons why we moved from bibop and related techniques to lowtags. 21:30:03 i didnt paste the rest of my function body 21:30:37 but doing it that way,i have 3 params and 2 keywords, right? 21:30:39 Shamiq: and you expect us to find your parentheses errors without pasting everyting? 21:30:49 Yes. 21:31:23 oop, found the error somewhere else... 21:32:01 stipet [n=user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:33:32 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-75-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:39:56 -!- skv [n=sasha@67.136.131.11] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:43:18 -!- guaqua_ is now known as guaqua 21:43:21 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["Nichts mehr."] 21:45:13 Odin- [n=sbkhh@194-144-58-124.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 21:46:19 ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-73-247.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:46:55 nyef: Lua ;) But really, it's the code you're actually executing you should worry about. 21:47:16 Indeed. 21:48:04 -!- davazp` [n=user@206.Red-88-25-187.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:49:09 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 21:51:08 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.151.14] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:51:14 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:52:45 so car of '() is nil 21:52:52 what's the equivalent for #() ? 21:52:59 rectify 21:53:08 hoops, wrong window. 21:53:16 There isn't an equivalent: #() isn't a list. 21:53:32 () is nil, and nil is (), though. 21:53:50 And (CAR NIL) => NIL and (CDR NIL) => NIL. 21:54:56 then i'm hitting this problem -- when i pass in an empty simple vector to my function that determines the max and min of a vector, i'm getting an "index out of bounds" because i try to set the current max/min as the first element in my first iteration 21:55:26 i'll paste code -- it's ugly.... 21:55:27 Well, what is the largest of zero values? 21:55:35 Shamiq: well, what's the max/min element of an empty set? 21:55:45 pkhuong: it's NIL 21:56:24 So... (if (zerop (length sequence)) nil (compute-maximum sequence))? 21:57:21 what i'm trying to figure is if there's anyway to deal with the empty sequence without doing a special case. 21:57:26 I'm assuming that you have a good reason for asserting that a value that is not in a set may still be its max/min element. 21:58:22 nyef: no, i sure dont 21:58:25 define your own le/ge that has nil as a distinguished value. 21:59:06 But NIL isn't an element of the empty set, yet you're defining it to be the max element? 21:59:12 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229243056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 22:00:32 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:02:57 nyef: the function was underdefined in the text 22:03:00 milanj [n=milan@93.87.151.14] has joined #lisp 22:03:13 nyef: i dug through the unit-tests to see what the prof wanted. 22:03:39 Don't forget to file a specification bug. 22:06:04 -!- nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:07:21 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:08:57 -!- Davidbrcz [i=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:11:08 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:12:48 mutew [n=mutew@128.220.159.20] has joined #lisp 22:14:03 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-90157.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 22:17:42 holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:01 MoALTz [n=no@92.23.144.26] has joined #lisp 22:19:21 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["May the Coyoes cook you some hot chili some day!"] 22:22:59 jmbr [n=jmbr@196.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:23:33 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-5f757f0a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:23:59 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:24:20 filtered functions look funky. What could you use it for? 22:25:18 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:27 tic: you could read the paper 22:25:57 good idea. 22:27:13 The paper didn't have more concrete examples than the ones in his blog post. I'm too dense to come up with real-life use cases where it offers a big advantage. 22:28:07 nyef: VLM fits in L2 :) 22:28:29 p_l: Wasn't it -supposed- to fit in L1? 22:28:38 lichtblau [n=user@pD9542BF7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:28:46 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C6CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:28:57 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:20 nyef: no, it fit in L2, L1 wasn't big enough... however, even the x86-64 binary fits L2 on my cpu, and I have less than a good Alpha 22:29:48 (the actual names of caches were different, but I don't remember DEC's nomenclature) 22:30:28 however, with tight code and everything in L2, loading it into L1 would be a snap... 22:35:01 -!- Shamiq [n=Adium@24-155-205-80.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:35:41 -!- mutew [n=mutew@128.220.159.20] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:36:12 pjb: btw, VLM was kinda like what you talked about - it was basically "microcode" that ran Ivory instructions on Alpha 22:36:55 Alpha assembler 22:37:22 I have to wonder, given modern memory latency on cache miss, would it make sense to attempt to microcode a system that executes two instruction streams in parallel on one core? 22:37:50 nyef: hyperthreading? 22:37:52 nyef: if you have low-level control over SMT facilities.... 22:38:03 (depends also on the kind of SMT used) 22:38:09 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@45-242.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:38:41 Basically use a prefetch before anything that would hit memory and run the other stream for a cycle or until it needs to prefetch, then switch back. 22:39:26 nyef: Niagara runs different thread every n cycles, I'm not sure about exact value of n 22:39:59 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.129] has joined #lisp 22:41:39 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 22:41:57 saving an image reorders the instructions 22:44:31 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:45:15 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:26 -!- stipet [n=user@c83-253-28-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:52:42 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 22:52:44 jtza8 [n=jtza8@wbs-41-208-193-81.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:53:35 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:05:44 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:08:11 -!- jtza8_ [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-40-35.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:10:14 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@ip-118-90-114-151.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:11:32 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 23:12:03 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.151.14] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:13:29 MegaTron [n=Transfor@ool-43563460.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:51 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-36-118.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:16:20 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@246-85.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 23:16:50 -!- Kenjin_ is now known as Guest15161 23:17:26 -!- moah [n=gnu@dslb-084-063-190-243.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:17:41 -!- Guest15161 is now known as Kenjin 23:18:19 -!- angerman [n=angerman@host41.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [] 23:18:48 -!- lispm [n=joswig@g224120041.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:20:01 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-70-96.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:22:04 koning_r1bot [n=aap@88.159.108.233] has joined #lisp 23:23:11 good night 23:23:17 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:23:27 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06c19c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["halt"] 23:24:21 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 23:24:33 -!- akamaus [n=maus@78.31.79.185] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:25:25 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:26:19 -!- MegaTron [n=Transfor@ool-43563460.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 23:27:50 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:28:49 mutew [n=mutew@c-69-251-40-32.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:03 -!- prxq [n=mommer@e176244210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:30:36 -!- snearch_ [n=olaf@g225059081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:30:50 belak [n=belak@68-188-162-101.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:14 -!- belak [n=belak@68-188-162-101.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 23:31:24 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:31:30 -!- borism [n=boris@213-35-235-152-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:33:19 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@ip-118-90-114-151.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:33:45 -!- koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.108.233] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:35:02 -!- Osaka [n=Alien@fl-71-3-67-12.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:35:19 Osaka_ [n=Alien@fl-71-3-67-12.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:22 Osaka [n=yuki@pool-71-101-100-190.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:25 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:35:42 borism [n=boris@213-35-235-152-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 23:39:44 -!- hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has quit ["leaving"] 23:39:47 giantg2 [n=georgeya@144.80.7.90] has joined #lisp 23:41:37 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:41:58 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.202.5] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 23:42:19 I'm curious about Lisp. Are there any good IDEs? 23:43:49 giantg2, do you like Emacs? 23:44:01 ^Neptune [n=cass72@79-74-32-154.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:12 minion, tell giantg2 about slime 23:44:13 giantg2: have a look at slime: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/slime 23:44:37 minion, tell giantg2 about pcl 23:44:38 giantg2: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 23:46:04 Thanks 23:47:41 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@90.149.113.175] has joined #lisp 23:52:12 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-231.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 23:52:56 Why is it called Superior when it is meant for inferior Lisps? 23:53:25 bpr [n=user@cpe-72-231-172-136.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:11 jcowan: Because it's better than the inferior-lisp mode. 23:54:16 <_3b> jcowan: it is superior in the same way the lisp is inferior, thought it probably means it is superior to other lisp modes 23:54:25 That too. 23:54:46 jcowan: "inferior" is emacs slang for process started by emacs and controlled by emacs