00:00:05 it allows for variety of nifty tricks, including clustering :-) 00:00:35 might be, as I said. I don't know. For what I use it just seems like bloat to me. 00:01:02 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:01:37 -!- vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has quit ["Coyote finally caught me"] 00:01:48 anyway its 2am, zzz time 00:01:56 yeah, the way it was used in linux to as easier devfs wasn't good 00:02:03 see you in the morning with more silly questions 00:02:24 bulibuta: cya. And look some time at Plan9 - it's the source of /proc and devfs etc. 00:02:35 noted 00:03:46 george [n=george@189.107.176.74] has joined #lisp 00:03:57 -!- Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:04:15 bulibuta: it's very bloat-free :) 00:06:00 -!- ziga`` [n=user@89.142.96.116] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:06:11 ziga`` [n=user@BSN-142-96-116.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:18 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-69-19.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:09:05 -!- felideon [n=felideon@74.186.235.232] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:11:48 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-249.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 00:12:25 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-249.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 00:12:26 Tristam [n=Tristam@cpe-67-242-194-48.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:43 -!- flatline [n=flatline@110.4.166.195] has quit [Client Quit] 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[n=isabellf@bas2-montreal31-1242479809.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:52:08 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 02:54:49 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:59:14 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM0018c0b3c272.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:00:55 *deepfire* tries to convince two poor souls to run a couple of OpenBSD SBCL buildslaves 03:07:02 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:07:58 is there a shorthand for defining a function whose body is built entirely by a macro that exists solely to build the body of that function? 03:10:07 why doesn't the macro just write the whole function? 03:11:34 or use macrolet... 03:12:59 konr [n=konrad@201.82.134.163] has joined #lisp 03:13:07 hefner_ [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-83-149.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 03:13:12 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-83-149.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:16:12 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 03:16:31 vng [n=user@123.20.72.88] has joined #lisp 03:16:43 hello 03:20:07 good evening 03:20:16 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:21:50 seamus_android [n=AW@host86-179-43-46.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:22:46 -!- sctb [n=sctb@S0106001a704b7fbe.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:28:23 -!- dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:28:43 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:30:40 deepfire: I think i can do that. 32-bit ok? 03:39:10 -!- seamus_android [n=AW@host86-179-43-46.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:46:02 envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 03:51:25 -!- blackened` 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out)] 04:14:45 tsuru: macrolet is the longhand way. 04:14:51 it's redundant and silly 04:16:53 basically I want to know if something like this is in the standard: (defmacro in-place (&body body) (let ((name (gensym))) `(macrolet ((,name () ,@body)) (name)))) 04:17:13 generally, if there's a simpler way to do that 04:17:13 . 04:19:09 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-131-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 04:21:12 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-131-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:32:39 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 04:32:53 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 04:34:33 sorry, what's the point of that? 04:36:52 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 04:37:15 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-209-197.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:44 rrice1 [n=rrice@adsl-99-164-40-151.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:01 -!- rrice1 [n=rrice@adsl-99-164-40-151.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:44:03 -!- rrice 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[n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-224-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:11:59 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:12:23 baddog [n=liam@110.32.128.31] has joined #lisp 05:13:24 -!- hefner_ is now known as hefner 05:17:59 -!- sg [i=3e164621@gateway/web/freenode/x-rraiygftgvazmeaj] has quit ["Page closed"] 05:21:28 hey folks, 1) a function does something like: (defun foo (fn some-list) (funcall bar:fn some-list)) where the calling function needs to call an incoming function defined in some other package. Must I supply fn as the full name of the function (i.e. bar:some-fn) and call it with (funcall fn...) instead of (funcall bar:fn...), or is there some way to specify that I'd like the function name but not have to supply the full package name in 05:21:28 the argument list? 05:22:17 wgl, yes, anything will be good 05:28:51 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-131-89.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:30:42 Shamwow, the Alexandria library has a function that'll do what you want. 05:31:08 the plain CL version would be along the lines of (intern (symbol-name symbol) :some-package) 05:31:27 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314032.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 05:34:02 Adlai: thanks for the pointer 05:36:04 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-206-157.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:38 -!- maus [n=maus@222.253.104.142] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:36:47 Shamwow, no problem. The real pointer is to Alexandria, though. It's a great library (hehe), lots of useful utilities, and it's in the public domain so you can just take what parts you need if you don't want the entire library. 05:36:51 Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-125-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:37:51 maus [n=maus@222.253.104.142] has joined #lisp 05:38:08 emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:48 Adlai: I grabbed it after someone else mentioned a few of the utilities, but I haven't browsed it closely yet 05:47:51 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442618.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 05:50:01 sellout: herep 05:50:01 gigamonkey, memo from wgl: #c@w when you are back? 05:51:20 wgl: you here? 05:51:56 Redis uses strings as native datatypes; i have a half-assed client library for CL but the interaction could be better. I am tired of my wrapped format macro and would prefer to serialize non-hugish CL objects to redis. my use cases are satisfied with cl-store; i am using the filesystem for storage and using the path as redis key values. if others want to jump on board with ideas on how... 05:51:57 ...improve this i am all ears. 05:53:41 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6D109.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:53:55 *deepfire* finally got to debackdoorification of desire 05:53:58 -!- emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:54:21 emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:02 as for design; i am using vanilla functions without no keyword or optional arguments and no methods. i am resisting the urge of shaddowing CL symbols where the functionality offered by redis is shared, so everything has a redis- prefix, in case there is a name clash between it and another CL lib out there. 05:55:31 Currently the definitions (including coming from remote sources) were just LOADed, which was a giant gaping security hole. 05:56:04 no connection pooling is done, the unwind-protect in with-redis opens and closes a connection 05:59:03 minion: memo for wgl: I popped into #c@w Thursday morning while I was waiting to give my C@W talk at Google. 05:59:03 Remembered. I'll tell wgl when he/she/it next speaks. 06:04:51 fusss: so you want to move from storing inside the filesystem to putting stuff inside Redis? 06:04:58 good morning 06:05:18 -!- emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:05:24 p_l: FS is acceptable for my uses, i was wondering what might be more convenient for others, or even what is idiomatic 06:05:45 emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:52 i am just trying to push ~/hacks/* to github since i have free time in the next week or so 06:09:51 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit ["off"] 06:12:48 hello, why parenscript transforms (delete (new (*foobar 2 3 4))) => "new(Foobar(2, 3, 4)); 06:12:52 ? 06:13:29 sorry I mean: (ps:ps (new (*foobar 2 3 4))) => "new(Foobar(2, 3, 4));" 06:13:48 -!- emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:14:11 kiuma: because that's the expected behavior ^_^ 06:14:18 kiuma: there is make-instance, I think 06:14:37 (ps:ps (make-instance (*foobar 2 3 4))) =>"makeInstance(Foobar(2, 3, 4));" 06:14:46 kiuma: look at the manual, there's something about objects there 06:15:08 madnificent, the manual says: 06:15:26 (delete (new (*foobar 2 3 4))) => delete new Foobar(2, 3, 4) 06:15:45 I have "delete new(Foobar(2, 3, 4));" 06:16:23 I'm starting to think that using it make only js more unreadeable 06:16:37 only a thought 06:16:58 one integrated way of development has huge advantages 06:17:08 it allows for seemingless integration with several technologies... 06:17:27 however, you will have the same goals with JS as you had with other things: Trying to build a nice abstraction 06:17:41 whereas most javascript seems to be hacked, instead of written 06:18:28 kiuma: are you useing the new from the right package? 06:18:33 may also be but what happen to the new js statement 06:18:43 yes, got from gentoo portage 06:18:59 no, you are not using your new from the parenscript package, I'm fairly certain 06:19:01 try this: 06:19:10 (parenscript:ps (parenscript:new (*foobar 2 3 4))) 06:19:13 does that work? 06:19:33 ough, let me check 06:19:54 yay it works 06:20:39 thanks :) 06:20:41 *madnificent* noticed many people don't seem to make the connection that regular lisp rules still exist when generating other code :) 06:20:43 yw 06:20:50 *madnificent* is happy it isn't a bug 06:21:03 I'm happy too :) 06:21:14 coffee time! 06:22:50 good idea 06:23:04 then a problem with emacs + slime :) 06:23:22 maybe a bug, but now ... coffee 06:25:25 *madnificent* can't debug emacs+slime 06:26:53 c|mell [n=cmell@89.249.195.34] has joined #lisp 06:28:18 gruseom [n=daniel@70.72.209.234] has joined #lisp 06:32:00 -!- maus [n=maus@222.253.104.142] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:32:36 maus [n=maus@222.253.104.142] has joined #lisp 06:32:42 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@166.129.153.79] has quit [] 06:33:23 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 06:36:14 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:22 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:46:57 Okay, when I invent my own programming language, it's going to be legal to put commas in numeric literals. 06:47:38 gigamonkey: will it be only one comma? 06:48:03 I'm not sure what would happen if I put two decimal separators into one numeric literal 06:48:52 Sorry. I'm speaking USAian. Commas for thousands separators, not decimal points. I mean like 123,456,789 06:49:12 Though that obviously points out the issue that your numeric literals would then be dependent on locale. 06:49:21 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-srfajwzgrzawqqsj] has left #lisp 06:49:50 Though that's already the case, between using #\. and #\, right? 06:50:09 gigamonkey: which is bloody idiotic thing - at least point is somewhat standardised 06:50:50 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:51:23 So if you use #\. for the decimal point, then #\, is used for separators and you can probably just be leniant and ignore them all. So you can group in threes or fours or whatever you want. 06:51:45 smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:51 <_3b> just use - for grouping :p 06:53:33 why sometime, after asking for autocompletion in emacs+slime I have "error in process filter: Invelid protocol message" and emacs stops to respond until I kill swank ? 06:53:55 s/to respon/responding/ 06:54:37 Hi, I was wondering if there was a way to script interaction with swank? I have a long running Lisp webapp, and I'd like to write a cron job that runs a function on the lisp image to cleanly shut it down, then backs up some data, and starts it back up. I can script the restart and the backup - but I don't know how to do the shutdown ... 06:55:11 kiuma: I don't know - but I have the same problem and would be interested in the answer as well ... 06:55:26 it's very anoying 06:55:42 <_3b> might try M-x slime-reset when it breaks 06:56:29 smanek: you can probably hack that together in elisp 06:56:31 somehow 06:56:42 <_3b> and check *inferior-lisp* and *slime-events* buffers 06:57:06 madnificent: I don't have emacs running on the server though 06:58:01 doesn't matter, you can connect to swank from a distance over ssh, no? afaict you just need to have swank loaded in your webserver image 06:58:07 My ugly, hackish workaround is to have lisp check for a specific '.shutdown' file - and when that file is touched it cleanly shuts itself down. But that seems like it has too many moving parts 06:58:29 _3b, but emacs do not responds to user events 06:59:03 <_3b> ah, missed that part, maybe hold down C-g for a bit first 07:02:50 _3b, I'll try 07:04:50 -!- legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-4-208.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:05:43 -!- |coyoes| is now known as birthday-coyo 07:07:57 peek-octet on socket streams is funny :-) 07:13:26 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:14:19 ASau [n=user@host92-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 07:14:20 is there a way to unread-octet; something portable and sane. 07:16:34 flexi-streams has unread-byte but i don't need the rest of its features 07:18:02 -!- ska` [n=user@203.146.146.169] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:18:35 _3b, C-g works, the exception trace is: 07:19:13 kiuma pasted "swank exception" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90279 07:19:25 what can I do ? 07:20:38 <_3b> do you load the fuzzy completion contrib? (or slime-fancy or whatever) 07:22:07 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 07:23:31 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:24:24 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-kqwmwuazsychjeqo] has quit [] 07:25:50 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-249.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 07:28:23 let me check 07:30:12 kiuma pasted ".emacs config file" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90281 07:30:22 redblue [i=star@ppp016.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 07:31:54 <_3b> try something like (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-tramp slime-asdf slime-sprof)) instead of the (require 'slime) part 07:32:12 ok 07:32:28 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.118.137] has joined #lisp 07:34:29 _3b, seems to work, thank you very much 07:37:52 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-206-157.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:39:12 Axius [n=ade@92.82.94.217] has joined #lisp 07:39:43 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.118.137] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:41:34 Sumpen [n=Sumpen@78-72-33-106-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:46:54 pjb [n=user@213.99.80.250] has joined #lisp 07:47:29 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.82.94.217] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:54:15 -!- Shamwow [n=eshamay@richmondlab-cl7.uoregon.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:54:35 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-249.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 07:58:50 Shamwow [n=eshamay@richmondlab-cl7.uoregon.edu] has joined #lisp 08:00:32 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-249.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:01:33 hey people. How about some more troubleshooting? I'm defining a generic function: (defgeneric foo (arg1 &key arg2 arg3)) and then specializing two methods on it (defmethod foo ((arg arg1) &key (arg2 nil) (arg3 nil)) ( ... )) but I keep getting errors along the lines of 'attempt to add the method to the generic function but the method and generic function differ in whether they accept &REST or &KEY arguments.' ... any ideas why that 08:01:33 could be coming up? 08:02:48 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.235] has joined #lisp 08:07:09 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@80.203.225.86] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:07:11 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:13 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:09:14 Good morning. 08:10:02 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 08:10:02 minion: tell Shamwow about lisppaste 08:10:13 Shamwow: Paste your code please. 08:11:45 lexa_ [n=lexa_@83.222.5.112] has joined #lisp 08:12:12 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest88225 08:13:01 pavelludiq [n=quassel@83.222.175.184] has joined #lisp 08:13:52 Shamwow pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90282 08:15:22 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 08:16:06 Shamwow, why do you have (...) in there? 08:16:31 c|mell: it's to signify that some code fits in there... arbitrary place-holder 08:16:44 Shamwow: I don't think that's your real code. If I replace the ... with something real, the code works fine for me. 08:16:54 -!- Guest88225 [n=lexa_@83.222.5.112] has left #lisp 08:17:20 spiaggia: that bit does work for me, too. I'm having trouble with the asdf system from what I can tell. I'll have to hunt it down in there 08:17:29 Shamwow: The reason I asked you to paste your code was that there was nothing wrong with your abbreviated code that you showed here. 08:17:49 Shamwow: That's not what you said initially. 08:17:53 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:18:27 spiaggia :) 08:18:46 Shamwow: when you are asked to paste your problem, it helps to paste the code that, you know, has your problem. 08:18:51 :P 08:18:52 spiaggia: yes, I thought that the abbreviated code would give the same error, but cut the corner of actually trying it out of context... 08:19:01 Shamwow: What Ralith said. 08:20:30 wasn't there a LOOP clause that could be used to determine the result type of a "COLLECTING" ? 08:20:48 <_3b> what type would it have besides CONS ? 08:21:05 <_3b> (it won't build arrays for you if that is what you mean 08:21:42 string or any other sequence 08:21:43 -!- Shamwow [n=eshamay@richmondlab-cl7.uoregon.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:21:46 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host238.190-226-115.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 08:21:52 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:21:58 it's a sequence of octets that gets coerced to a string afterward 08:22:29 (defun read-tereminated-octets (&optional (terminator +cr+)) 08:22:31 (loop for x = (read-byte *redis-stream*) until (equalp x terminator) collecting x)) 08:22:35 -!- baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:22:45 terminated 08:23:31 <_3b> with-output-to-string + write-char ? 08:24:37 <_3b> ah, guess that wouldn't work if you collect octets 08:25:07 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:25:34 i am using babel:octets-to-string for the conversion; i guess coerce would be fine 08:26:06 fusss: collect always gives a list. 08:27:09 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 08:27:42 <_3b> you could use vector-push-extend 08:28:24 (babel:octets-to-string (coerce (read-terminated-octats) 'vector)) does it 08:29:03 Shamwow [n=eshamay@richmondlab-cl7.uoregon.edu] has joined #lisp 08:29:07 -!- Shamwow [n=eshamay@richmondlab-cl7.uoregon.edu] has left #lisp 08:30:03 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@70.72.209.234] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:30:15 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 08:31:12 Nshag [i=user@193.250.85.206] has joined #lisp 08:31:53 why does the read-terminated-octets use #'equalp (and not #'=)+ 08:31:54 ? 08:32:15 fusss, the whole thing is a performance (speed,space) catastrophe :) 08:32:28 c|mell: i know 08:32:49 unneeded catastrophe 08:32:56 but i am not using that as a final solution, just in the test cases 08:33:18 even then 08:33:28 Redis' bulk-result specifies already has a status line which encodes the lengh of the result, so we're using read-sequence in the library 08:36:06 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:36:25 -!- swilde [n=wilde@aktaia.intevation.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:40:03 -!- Tordek_ [n=tordek@host238.190-226-115.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:46:48 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host81.190-226-114.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:48:55 asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 08:50:45 -!- knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:58:10 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:58:20 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.221.90] has joined #lisp 08:59:39 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.235] has quit ["be back later"] 09:01:45 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 09:02:17 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.235] has joined #lisp 09:03:02 -!- vng [n=user@123.20.72.88] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:03:38 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:04:44 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-92-195-56-124.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:04:56 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-83-149.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:05:34 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-83-149.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 09:07:26 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:12 -!- envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:10:29 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 09:10:38 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:12:57 wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077072191.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:28 Hi. I am trying to share a resource in hunchentoot, but keep getting an error that the object is private to another stream. Anyone know how I can share the resource? 09:15:46 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:15:59 It's actually a font loaded from zpb-ttf, the error is around a binary stream 09:16:21 and will always be read-only 09:17:19 oops /private to another stream/private to another thread/ 09:18:29 vng [n=user@123.20.72.88] has joined #lisp 09:19:44 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:19:50 Adlai`` [n=adlai@93-173-240-168.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 09:19:51 hello 09:22:01 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229179175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:29:45 -!- vng [n=user@123.20.72.88] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:32:39 -!- crink [n=crink@unaffiliated/crink] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:36:11 Adlai``` [n=adlai@93-173-240-168.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 09:36:14 -!- Adlai`` [n=adlai@93-173-240-168.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:37:39 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@89.249.195.34] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:39:24 -!- asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [] 09:40:24 nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:40:47 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:42:42 -!- lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@88.73.245.16] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:44:00 blandest [n=blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 09:44:28 -!- Adlai``` [n=adlai@93-173-240-168.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:44:32 EnglishGent [n=EnglishG@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:45:15 Adlai``` [n=adlai@93-173-240-168.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 09:46:33 hicx174 [n=hicx174@123.108.171.227] has joined #lisp 09:52:52 lpolzer [n=lpolzer@88.73.245.16] has joined #lisp 09:58:02 wentbackward: that must be a custom library :-) can't think of anything in hunchentoot that has a "custom resource" 09:58:58 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:59:32 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:01:22 -!- Kolyan is now known as Kolyan[away] 10:01:32 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 10:02:28 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:02:38 nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:18 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 10:04:49 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Client Quit] 10:05:16 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 10:07:26 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:08:19 lichtblau [n=user@77-22-106-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:15:26 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:22 c|mell [n=cmell@89.249.195.34] has joined #lisp 10:17:24 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:20:04 fusss: Have discovered it's something peculiar to CCL. Streams are made private to the thread by default 10:20:28 oh 10:22:07 It is possible to put :shared :lock on open, and it sorts itself out 10:23:05 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has joined #lisp 10:23:37 hmm... understandable, I'd say 10:24:35 hello 10:25:16 yes, non standard but quite nice that by default streams are not encumbered with unnecessary locking 10:26:55 hi fe[nl]ix 10:28:46 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:30:13 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:30:34 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-211-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:12 sg [n=sg@83.231.47.162] has joined #lisp 10:32:26 hi 10:33:31 hello sg 10:36:22 -!- rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-164-111.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:38:10 Krystof [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:38:31 is there a format directive equivalent to code-char? 10:39:16 a la %c in printf, which doesn't care whether it takes a 'character' or a character encoding in the current locale-thinggie 10:39:22 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:57 -!- smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:40:36 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A7C6B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:40:47 benny [n=benny@i577A7C6B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:41:37 Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 10:42:07 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-180-123.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 10:43:04 Athas [n=athas@80.161.87.214] has joined #lisp 10:43:59 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 10:44:24 kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:01 -!- Kolyan[away] is now known as Kolyan 10:49:58 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:52:04 cl-redis, 1M ping commands, 100 threads each requesting 100k command requests ~40 seconds 10:53:40 concurrently getting dropped in sldb by 100 threads, timeless 10:54:06 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:54:40 -!- EnglishGent is now known as EnglishGent^afk 10:54:50 can't hold q down either .. heh :P 10:56:08 -!- penthief [n=user@87-194-57-101.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:56:28 hey now 10:58:14 -!- kidd [n=kidd@216.Red-88-16-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:58:50 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:00:05 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 11:00:33 Yuuhi [i=benni@84.131.191.189] has joined #lisp 11:02:25 kidd [n=kidd@106.Red-79-152-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:42 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM0018c0b3c272.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:03:44 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 11:04:14 -!- kidd [n=kidd@106.Red-79-152-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 11:04:17 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@89.249.195.34] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 11:04:56 -!- Sumpen [n=Sumpen@78-72-33-106-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:08:57 kidd [n=kidd@194.Red-88-11-111.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:59 lispm [n=joswig@g224123236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:10:05 fusss: there's always ~/CL-USER::CODE-CHAR-FORMAT/ 11:11:28 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:11:40 pjb: (map 'string #'code-char ..) for now 11:12:23 my issue is that #(...) is not of type (vector '(unsigned-byte 8)) 11:14:57 In most current implementations, code-char takes more than (unsigned-byte 8), for unicode. 11:16:09 x2cast [n=alvaro@62.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:18:33 -!- kidd [n=kidd@194.Red-88-11-111.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:19:37 smaxarang [n=user@91.190.137.166] has joined #lisp 11:20:16 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@76.216.21.95] has joined #lisp 11:20:34 kidd [n=kidd@159.Red-79-147-12.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:43 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6F23B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:36 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 11:32:02 -!- Athas [n=athas@80.161.87.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:32:11 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-83-149.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:34:52 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-83-149.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:37:35 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp016.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:40:11 edgard_ [n=edgard@189.60.22.76] has joined #lisp 11:41:54 -!- edgard_ [n=edgard@189.60.22.76] has quit [] 11:43:28 -!- lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:43:51 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:46:35 -!- sg [n=sg@83.231.47.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:48:18 ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-71-5.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 11:49:14 anyone around whom has toyed with cl-postgres and local-time? 11:49:28 s/cl-postgres/postmodern/ 11:50:38 -!- x2cast [n=alvaro@62.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #lisp 11:51:30 -!- rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:52:35 ah, I found it, apparently you need to call a function to make the integration happen :) 11:56:38 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:58:40 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 12:04:44 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:03 yakov [n=yzaytsev@213.170.102.170] has joined #lisp 12:08:21 -!- yakov [n=yzaytsev@213.170.102.170] has left #lisp 12:09:00 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-211-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:10:44 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:13:27 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@109.50.41.118] has joined #lisp 12:16:51 pjb` [n=user@234.Red-88-28-236.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:24 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 12:17:52 -!- pjb [n=user@213.99.80.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:17:59 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 12:24:01 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 12:25:55 G0SUB__ [n=ghoseb@117.195.99.222] has joined #lisp 12:26:22 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:14 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:29:14 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 12:33:58 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 12:34:25 ... lol @ tournament rules: The remote process must be a 1-click to run application (e.g. we are not going to install a lisp compiler on the host machine to run a bot) 12:34:54 yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-134-12.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 12:36:04 what tournament is this? :) 12:36:26 Athas` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:36:51 http://eis.ucsc.edu/StarCraftAICompetition 12:37:14 but yes, it's possible to enter a lisp program :) 12:38:06 badipod [n=badipod@110.32.128.31] has joined #lisp 12:38:06 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:38:48 p_l: Heh, that's cool. 12:39:39 p_l: I have a feeling that knowing starcraft well and basic AI knowledge will be far more helpful than knowing AI well with basic starcraft knowledge, though :) 12:39:56 *p_l* considers being evil and making the AI have total spatial awareness :D 12:40:57 -!- yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-134-12.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:41:24 that could make an interesting AI behaviour 12:42:00 -!- G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.99.63] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:42:27 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-83-149.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:42:35 the api doesn't allow for total info 12:42:50 nvoorhies: but you can scout like madmen :> 12:42:52 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:42:56 the bot only ends up seeing what a human would, which presumably should make it more interesting 12:43:01 oh yeah, no doubt 12:43:18 Scouting requires resources, you only do that big-time if you're going to rush 12:43:22 nvoorhies: do you get info from all units or just from the "screen" 12:43:27 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:43:48 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-115-144.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:43:54 I believe it's from all units and the associated areas not in the "fog of war" but I only glanced at it 12:44:09 Athas`` [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 12:44:18 nvoorhies: that's enough :) 12:45:38 lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 12:46:01 I wonder if being able to see everything is really worth it though. I'd be surprised if it was, just because that'd mean it'd turn nearly completely into a clickfest where you can win by giving the most orders in the min time. 12:46:26 And I bet they did a bunch of game balancing work to discourage that, since it doesn't sound fun. 12:47:03 and large portions of the map at any time have got to be really boring and thus a waste of resources to find out about 12:48:10 -!- Athas`` [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Client Quit] 12:48:22 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 12:48:50 -!- Athas` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:49:57 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 12:50:01 nvoorhies: that's what maps of influence are for, as well as good patrol planning 12:50:58 yeah 12:53:43 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229179175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 12:53:59 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 12:54:24 -!- EnglishGent^afk is now known as EnglishGent 12:57:44 yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-3-166.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 13:00:40 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@109.50.41.118] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:00:51 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Damn cable pluggers"] 13:02:16 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:02:23 afternoon 13:03:10 hello nikodemus 13:03:13 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:03:16 any slime hackers or emacs gurus around? i have an emacs/slime performance issue, but i don't know which it is, and would appreciate help in diagnosing it 13:03:23 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:03:27 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 13:04:28 -!- maus [n=maus@222.253.104.142] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:04:35 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@109.50.41.118] has joined #lisp 13:05:04 -!- Kenjin is now known as Guest59850 13:06:13 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 13:06:35 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:07:12 didi [n=user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 13:07:52 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:10:13 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 13:10:57 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 13:11:40 nikodemus: shoot 13:11:40 tcr, memo from ryepup: broken link to presentation PDF on http://common-lisp.net/project/sequence-iterators/ 13:12:00 ryepup: Yeah I know 13:12:05 but thanks 13:12:27 nikodemus: I hope you're not talking about package-data-list 13:13:18 -!- Guest59850 is now known as Kenjin 13:13:32 yes, i'm, actually :) 13:13:54 the answer is do not use lisp-mode on it 13:14:01 i just narrowed it down to slime-use-autodoc-mode -- so i have a workaround 13:14:14 autodoc-mode, no that doesn't sound right 13:14:37 it's greying out reader conditionals, i.e. fontification 13:14:41 with autodoc-mode it's horrible -- without it it's ok 13:14:53 Oh I always thought it's fontification! 13:15:00 do you use slime-fontify-fu? 13:15:32 does slime-fancy include it? 13:15:36 Yeah 13:15:39 then i do 13:15:43 I know a fix for slime-autodoc though 13:16:07 ok? 13:17:13 Hopefully I'll have time to fix it some time later 13:17:21 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:28 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 13:17:57 turning of autodoc isn't a biggie for me, so no horrible rush 13:18:12 Even if I turn off autodoc, it's still slow 13:18:37 huh 13:19:06 during each fonfification (which happens lazily on chunks) it has to determine the toplevel 13:19:16 which, in case of package-data-list, ist the beginning of the file 13:19:19 with autodoc on, C-s e "SB!VM 13:19:19 and the file is huge 13:19:45 and then scroll down with arrow keys / page-down 13:20:15 M-: slime-highlight-suppressed-forms 13:21:00 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 13:21:03 t 13:21:25 -!- badipod [n=badipod@110.32.128.31] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:21:35 Yeah paging down is very sluggish for me 13:22:04 You're probably on a much more powerful system than I am. When paging down, what's your cpu load? 13:22:16 yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109.184.230.177] has joined #lisp 13:22:18 I mean do you at least see an increase of cpu load? 13:22:24 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:22:31 yes, it over 90% 13:22:42 s/it/it shoots/ 13:22:55 yup 13:23:24 timor1 [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:23:52 For the moment, I suggest to turn off lisp-mode (just M-x fundamental-mode) when modifying package-data-list 13:24:15 -!- timor1 [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:24:31 bbl 13:24:34 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:25:12 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:26:10 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:26:59 c|mell [n=cmell@89.249.195.34] has joined #lisp 13:27:16 levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-94-44-13-195.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 13:27:21 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:27:34 LISTEN "Returns true if there is a character immediately available from input-stream" <-- what about sockets of :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)? 13:28:09 I'm watching this series of videos called A Brief Introduction to LISP posted at reddit 13:28:56 it's nice to have things like that for newbies, but alas the guy is typing parenthesis one-by-one! 13:29:03 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:29:07 the horror 13:29:16 fusss: Not part of the standard. 13:29:41 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:29:51 that makes a very bad impression 13:30:33 even though his editor has parenthesis matching.... 13:30:38 levente_meszaros: it's reddit, they will send Samuel L Jackson and a Narwhal to stab him to death 13:30:54 -!- yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109.184.230.177] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:31:00 fusss, :-) 13:31:25 levente_meszaros: On whom? 13:31:34 levente_meszaros: paredit snobs? 13:31:53 Xach, on newbies 13:32:02 levente_meszaros: I guess I'm wondering what you mean by "typing parentheses one-by-one" 13:32:17 levente_meszaros: What does that mean? (i don't have access to the videos) 13:32:41 Xach, type the left and right parenthesis one by one 13:33:10 so you might have this: (if (= 3 a) (progn (print "foo 13:33:34 levente_meszaros: Oh no! That is how *I* write lisp! 13:33:43 *Xach* will try to avoid newbies from now on 13:33:44 here is the video: http://answers.oreilly.com/topic/390-a-brief-introduction-to-lisp-part-3-scoping/ 13:33:57 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 13:34:38 stipet [n=user@ua.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:53 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442618.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:35:19 maybe I'm a paredit snob, but I hardly press the closing parenthesis more than 10 times a day 13:35:46 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:35:59 You have to learn the parentheses first, before you learn to ignore them. 13:36:37 levente_meszaros: I think the harm is not severe. 13:37:30 *madnificent* stores link to video 13:37:42 yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109.184.230.177] has joined #lisp 13:37:55 there are other videos in that series at: http://answers.oreilly.com/tag/lisp 13:38:10 *madnificent* remembers the better link 13:38:28 ty levente_meszaros, other new lispers thank you from the future, I hope 13:39:31 -!- yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-3-166.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:39:37 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 13:40:51 levente_meszaros: he is a true-blue lisp old hand 13:41:27 if you wont worse checkout the clojure tutorials being taught by java guys 13:41:43 s/wont/want/ 13:41:53 ziga` [n=user@BSN-142-96-116.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:31 fusss, I think I can pretty much guess what would I get by extrapolating the talks to Java guys about lisp from the past... 13:42:33 blackbear doesn't seem to be the most experienced lisper 13:42:33 any McCLIM wizards? 13:43:04 madnificent: MIT, LMI, Xerox, Interleaf; at least a corporate lisper 13:43:28 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:44:21 fusss: how can it be, that our corporate lisper isn't more proficient with the language?! /o\ 13:44:23 perhaps a good lisper but a horrible actor? some people are startled when on camera, specially if the cameraman is a peeping tom 13:44:32 fusss: could be too 13:44:53 anyways it doesn't show too much things immediately, which is a good thing for a new lisper, I think 13:45:28 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-25-128.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:45:49 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 13:46:19 i he used M-( viewers might have wondered how he did that, in turn getting confused by emacs documentation and/or lispworks 13:47:03 flatline [n=flatline@z166195.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:50:37 nyquist [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:53:46 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06e3ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:51 hello 13:54:10 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:56:07 if he spent 8 years using the language, and part of that @ symbolics, i think that pretty much guarantees he hasn't been using it very actively during the last decade... 13:56:47 oh god. /me turns this off 13:57:02 "i wonder if the exponent operator works" 13:57:44 -!- Nshag [i=user@193.250.85.206] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:01:02 vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:01:08 how do you feel about http://diiq.posterous.com/a-lisp-concise-while-in-arc-and-eight ? 14:01:14 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:49 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442618.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 14:03:01 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Damn cable pluggers"] 14:03:05 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442618.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:06:41 leo2007 [n=leo@soup.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:07:37 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@109.50.41.118] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:08:18 edgard_ [n=edgard@189.60.22.76] has joined #lisp 14:08:25 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:16 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d2bc5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:01 _icecube_ [n=icecube@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:11:45 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:12:45 Krystof [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:13:39 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6F23B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 14:13:41 struck dumb, i see 14:14:09 quite 14:14:39 *nikodemus* peels velcro from eyeballs 14:15:19 Xach: I think I like the quoted-symbols-as-unevaluated-parameters thing. 14:16:11 *nikodemus* puts evaluation rules where sellout can't reach them 14:16:21 I see macros and functions as just distinction between evaluation as application and evaluation as term rewriting 14:16:39 I like how the guy in the video on franz.com talks about typing Prolog into the application, and proceeds to enter a sexp instead. 14:16:39 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@109.50.41.118] has joined #lisp 14:16:40 Without using M-(, of course. 14:17:07 -!- Kenjin is now known as Guest8927 14:17:22 -!- edgard_ [n=edgard@189.60.22.76] has quit [] 14:18:04 -!- stipet [n=user@ua.blixtvik.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:18:57 -!- nyquist [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:19:47 *Krystof* doesn't use M-( or paredit either 14:19:56 joswig [n=joswig@f054055194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:12 maybe I am the guy in the videos 14:20:36 harming the software industry AND the novice lisper 14:21:17 you don't use comic sans either 14:21:32 It's beginner friendly! 14:21:33 but how do you know? 14:22:15 the corrosive effect comic sans has on soul is usually readily apparent in face-to-face communications 14:23:29 and if you did use it, it would appear on all your slides unless there was a corporate template you were forced to use -- and even then there would be at least one caption using it 14:23:31 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 14:24:30 Ah, reading the article, it doesn't do what I really expected. 14:27:29 -!- lispm [n=joswig@g224123236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:27:48 *Lycurgus* mulls the concept of harming the software industry. 14:27:51 I guess it couldn't though. I wasn't thinking about the recursive macro, just the quoted parameters. 14:27:52 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 14:28:27 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBACD9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:29:28 fihi09` [n=user@pool-71-190-74-115.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:43 -!- fihi09 [n=user@pool-71-190-74-115.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:30:12 *joswig* fun how the guy in the video looks for the changing abort restart number 14:30:18 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@89.249.195.34] has quit ["to the music"] 14:31:18 Has anyone seen a use for the non-keyword-names-&key-parameter feature? 14:31:44 sorry, which video? 14:32:43 videos: http://answers.oreilly.com/tag/lisp 14:33:29 the guy was working for LMI and is still missing ZetaLisp's IF 14:33:38 tcr: I am unaware of such a feature. Do you have a description? 14:33:58 aborting to the top level REPL is :top in LispWorks 14:34:02 clhs 3.1.4.3 14:34:02 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 3.1.4.3. 14:34:13 clhs 3.4.1.4 14:34:13 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_dad.htm 14:34:20 legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-32-48.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:34:27 tcr: some argue it's good style to not use keywords for class initarg names 14:35:23 oh good one 14:35:47 as in non-pathological use case :) 14:36:04 and by analogy if you've got a defgeneric with &allow-other-keys that's designed to be extended by people implementing the method, you should go by the same rule 14:36:51 -!- didi [n=user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:37:37 -!- salva [n=kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:38:29 minion:tell gigamonkey: c@w if you are available. 14:38:30 wgl, memo from gigamonkey: I popped into #c@w Thursday morning while I was waiting to give my C@W talk at Google. 14:43:53 udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-mgztgeelrqxjxnry] has joined #lisp 14:46:31 nikodemus: I've just skimmed through Queinnec's "Dynamic Extent Objects" paper; sounds like something that may be interesting to you 14:51:33 borism [n=boris@213.35.235.143] has joined #lisp 14:53:22 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06e3ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:53:22 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:53:31 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:53:58 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:12 thanks 14:55:20 *nikodemus* puts it on reading list 14:55:28 would anyone have GECO's Postscript documentation handy? 14:55:41 it seems to be lost as far as Internet is concerned 14:57:10 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:57:27 -!- smaxarang [n=user@91.190.137.166] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:57:54 *EnglishGent* wonders what nikodemus interest area is :) 14:58:31 *EnglishGent* glances at the paper tcr mentioned after a quick google :) 14:59:57 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:58 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 15:01:10 EnglishGent: i've been doing work on dynamic extent allocation in sbcl (not very recently, but within the last couple of years) 15:03:43 slight problem with asdf, on my machine my system file is ran fine (using clisp). on another it compiles the first two files then errors out with The path "test/x-and-0-test.fasl" does not exist. (using sbcl) 15:03:49 any clues why this might happen? 15:04:05 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@cpe-67-242-194-48.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:04:14 bulibuta: hmm, a transcript of the error might be helpful. could you paste it to paste.lisp.org? 15:04:19 sure 15:05:38 http://paste.lisp.org/+1XOH 15:06:15 the file is: http://gitorious.org/ai-fun/ai-fun/blobs/master/ai-fun.asd 15:06:28 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:06:41 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06e3ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:09 ah. common-lisp-controller is interfering. i don't know much about that, sorry. i usually avoid it on debian or debian-ish systems. 15:07:14 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:07:22 milanj [n=milan@109.93.33.54] has joined #lisp 15:07:23 -!- fihi09` [n=user@pool-71-190-74-115.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:07:24 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 15:07:26 where is rahul? iirc he claims to understand clc... 15:08:34 fihi09 [n=user@pool-71-190-74-115.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:48 can that be disabled? 15:09:37 bulibuta: if you use a binary from www.sbcl.org i think it will not use common-lisp-controller by default (though it might, if the system-wide init file is set up to use it) 15:12:13 dysinger [n=dysinger@166.187.193.173] has joined #lisp 15:13:06 demmeln [n=Adium@a153.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 15:13:40 bulibuta: /usr/lib/sbcl/sbcl-dist.core is a pristine core from sbcl.org, or at least without any trace of clc 15:14:46 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:14:54 bulibuta: and you can remove clc: http://pkg-common-lisp.alioth.debian.org/clid/clid.html/ch-impl.html#s-implscript 15:15:40 the infamous CLC strikes again! :P 15:16:06 *hefner* thought the debian CL packages were going away 15:16:14 demmeln1 [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:17:02 hefner: what interesting thing are you secretly working on in ecl? 15:17:06 they might just go to clbuild 15:17:27 hefner: I have a feeling that it will be hard to get rid of them 15:19:07 thanks for the tips guys 15:21:43 -!- fihi09 [n=user@pool-71-190-74-115.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:21:54 I think it has to be said that the fasl relocation idea behind clc and a-b-l makes a lot of sense. The issue, however, is that it's too different from upstream ASDF to be reliable with random .asds written by people who don't use it. 15:22:27 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:22 If a-b-l ever gets enabled by default in "upstream" ASDF, those .asds would probably get fixed in a matters of weeks. (Albeit rather stormy weeks with people complaining all over the place.) 15:24:34 FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 15:25:22 Paraselene__ [n=None@79-68-173-7.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:21 -!- blandest [n=blandest@85.204.33.242] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:27:42 lichtblau: what's the fix for bulibuta? 15:28:10 tcr: Not so interesting or secret, but I'm screwing around figuring out whether it's feasible (or worthwhile) to write a game using ECL. So far so good, but the real test will be when I find a machine running Windows to make sure it works where it matters. 15:28:24 *hefner* is wasting time on silliness, as usual 15:30:38 hefner: aren't GC stops a showstopper for games - at least those with realtime display? 15:31:21 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Nantes-117-4-149.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:31:41 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:31:43 demmeln2 [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:33:54 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 15:34:25 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 15:34:37 ziga`: maybe, but it depends on how long and how often. last time I did any animation with SBCL, GC caused a slight stutter, one or two frames. 15:35:15 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:35:25 plenty of games use Lua, and it has a GC 15:36:10 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:36:16 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:37:17 lichtblau: At least a-b-l got merged into upstream asdf :) -- what do these faulty .asd file do that they're faulty? 15:37:19 Xach: I have no idea. (My money would be on the slash in the component name though.) 15:38:01 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 15:38:07 hefner: I'll wait for stassats to apply your patches. He needs something for his commit count on otohloh or however that was called 15:38:12 tcr: well, usually they implement or customize operations in a way that doesn't compose with the fasl-redirecting :around method in a-b-l. (This particular case seems to be different though.) 15:39:03 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:40:36 I just recall that there was slime asdf system browser; I should probably look there for how to implement a who-depends-on 15:40:45 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:40:45 minion: system browser 15:40:46 please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 15:41:49 -!- G0SUB__ [n=ghoseb@117.195.99.222] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:42:00 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@a153.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:43:22 paw` [n=user@78-69-84-129-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:59 gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:45 -!- demmeln1 [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:45:00 Krystof [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:50:29 -!- demmeln2 [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:50:39 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:51:02 rrice [n=rrice@adsl-99-164-40-151.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:48 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:54:54 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 15:57:38 *fusss* just realized lisp function names could start with a digit; always thought 1[+-] was an a compiler exception 15:59:10 fusss: True, you can put many things in a function name. But remember a very important thing when coding lisp : just because you can, doesn't mean you should ;) 15:59:54 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:57 cl-redis, connection handling, string, key space, lists, and set commands are done. next up, ordered sets, multiple databases, and persistence control. 16:00:06 *Xach* defined 9+ some time ago 16:00:10 and after that, a decent lispy layer that doesn't suck 16:00:22 -!- ASau [n=user@host92-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 16:01:08 and right after that, the ridicule of a thousand arm-chair performance architects who didn't bother to write redis bindings ;-) 16:02:23 root [n=root@213.180.77.81] has joined #lisp 16:02:40 -!- root is now known as yesman 16:03:00 hello 16:03:39 okay 16:03:46 hm 16:03:53 -!- FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:05:17 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:06:19 yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-94-75.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 16:06:36 Krystof [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:07:53 demmeln [n=Adium@188.104.85.104] has joined #lisp 16:08:15 Is there a reason why an altered value of asdf:*central-registry* would not be preserved in a save-lisp-and-die? 16:08:35 fusss: what is the target app for this binding? 16:08:43 yesmanreturns [n=root@213.180.77.81] has joined #lisp 16:08:50 hello 16:09:19 yesmanreturns: What's up? 16:09:38 LiamH: initialization somewhere? 16:09:49 p_l: same ole ad engine 16:09:53 ejs [n=eugen@137-9-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:57 LiamH: i have always had good success setting the central registry in a saved core 16:10:38 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@188.104.85.104] has quit [Client Quit] 16:10:40 Xach: I suppose, but I don't have an .sbclrc 16:10:58 I have a problem. I'm trying to setq stuff from a list but somehow it doesn't seems to get set at all. Please take a look at http://lisp.pastebin.com/m20bd5053 16:11:57 I am using clbuild however. 16:12:16 yesmanreturns: it would help if you demonstrated what you expected to happen, and what actually happened instead. 16:12:22 Sure, will do. 16:12:30 yesmanreturns: your let binds two variables, symbol and first. 16:13:09 pjb: are you sure? 16:13:11 Yes. 16:13:35 serichse` [n=user@hmbg-4d06c667.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:44 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06e3ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:13:44 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:13:46 -!- yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109.184.230.177] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:13:49 -!- serichse` is now known as serichsen 16:13:52 Hmm, how can I fix it so it binds symbol to the first of list? 16:14:17 yesmanreturns: check the syntax for let. 16:14:19 clhs let 16:14:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_let_l.htm 16:14:32 You need one more level of parenthesis. 16:15:00 Then you don't set _from_ the list, but from the evaluated value... 16:15:15 I see 16:15:17 thanks 16:15:23 Who was looking for a graphic of common lisp types? The Common Lisp Quick Reference http://clqr.berlios.de/ contains one (page 39). 16:16:02 -!- ejs [n=eugen@137-9-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:17:23 argh.. my function is supposed to for every symbol in my given list set that as a global variable with given value 16:18:05 I don't get any errors except that nothing gets set 16:18:35 yesmanreturns: macros are an advanced topic. i'd suggest that you start with something simple. 16:19:10 H4ns: the things, this is a part of an assignment, and I only have this little part left :) 16:19:48 yesmanreturns: It would be easier to debug if inner was a global function. 16:20:20 (defun set-symbols (symbols new-value) ...) 16:20:52 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.134.163] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:20:56 I believe its a part of the assigmnent to do as much as possible in macros 16:21:28 Then you can write your macro as: (defmacro setlistq-3 (symbols value) `(set-symbols ',symbols ,value)) 16:21:55 yesmanreturns: no, this cannot be part of an assignment. You have to learn how to do functional decomposition, and functional decomposition is always in order. 16:22:03 yesmanreturns: i have trouble believing that the assignment asks you to write macros before you understood fundamentals of lisp. 16:22:43 tcr: "Dynamic Extent Objects"? 16:23:02 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:23:02 pjb: mkay, so the code I posted above is fundamentally wrong then? 16:23:04 froydnj: It's not about objects in the clos sense, but about stack-allocated data 16:23:12 tcr: link? 16:23:30 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:38 serichse` [n=user@hmbg-4d06de93.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:41 Try to implement a set-symbols function, and use setlistq-3 macro as above. 16:23:46 dysinger_ [n=dysinger@32.177.36.147] has joined #lisp 16:23:57 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06c667.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:23:58 froydnj: http://pagesperso-systeme.lip6.fr/Christian.Queinnec/Papers/DynExt-All.ps.gz 16:23:59 acrid [n=mckay@204.126.146.202] has joined #lisp 16:24:02 -!- serichse` is now known as serichsen 16:24:28 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 16:24:58 tcr: thanks 16:25:08 pjb: okay, thanks a bunch 16:26:03 yesmanreturns: also, read the clhs pages for SETQ, SET and SYMBOL-VALUE. 16:27:43 -!- _icecube_ [n=icecube@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["shutdown -h now"] 16:29:47 -!- herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:29:54 I tried implementing a separate functions, (and traced setq) and it executes a bunch of stuff (and does sets something) but not the variables I wanted it to set http://lisp.pastebin.com/d2727dee2 16:29:58 herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:58 pjb: 16:31:17 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:31:36 what are the speed/safety trade-offs between parse-integer and read-from-string if I know my input is _certainly_ strings of decimal digits? parse-integer doesn't eval stuff, i think. 16:31:45 tcr: sequence-iterators looks very nice 16:32:28 fusss: parse-integer will be (slightly?) faster and safer. it expresses intent better as well. 16:32:39 incf 16:32:43 yesmanreturns: What is the effect of (setq a 42) ? 16:32:44 cheers! 16:33:20 pjb it sets the variable a to 42 16:33:26 Right. 16:33:37 Would it matter if the previous value of A was the symbol B? 16:33:51 nope (afaIk) 16:33:58 Right. 16:33:59 yesmanreturns: read the clhs pages for SETQ, SET, SETF and SYMBOL-VALUE. 16:34:16 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:34:21 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:17 serichse` [n=user@hmbg-4d066d8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:30 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06de93.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:35:36 -!- serichse` is now known as serichsen 16:37:39 froydnj: Thanks, but the problem about output-sequence-allocation looks pretty hard. You probably need a dichotomy of sequences (I also heard that c++ has been trying to get iterators right for 20 years) 16:38:00 serichse` [n=user@hmbg-4d066d8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:12 tcr: in my octets->ascii-armor library, I take the "try to get the size right, then shrink" approach, though it provides other ways to do things 16:39:26 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d066d8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:39:31 -!- serichse` is now known as serichsen 16:39:35 tcr: http://github.com/froydnj/binascii , fwiw 16:39:42 jleija [n=jleija@98.91.0.142] has joined #lisp 16:40:50 froydnj: It's also what Xof does in sb-sequences; remove-if is copy-sequence+delete-if; and delete-if reuses given sequence, then run adjust-sequence on it 16:41:38 froydnj: Perhaps git-update-server-info needs to be run there? 16:41:40 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@166.187.193.173] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:41:40 -!- dysinger_ is now known as dysinger 16:41:52 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.118.137] has joined #lisp 16:42:01 I'm probably doing it wrong 16:42:10 tcr: clone url: git://github.com/froydnj/binascii.git 16:42:13 ok there's a special clone url 16:42:14 -!- yesmanreturns [n=root@213.180.77.81] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:42:14 -!- yesman [n=root@213.180.77.81] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:44:01 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:44:05 froydnj: unknown type specifier: BINASCII::DECODE-TYPE 16:44:12 tcr: bother. 16:44:13 in base16 16:44:34 yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109-184-2-117.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 16:44:40 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 16:44:59 konr [n=konrad@201.82.134.163] has joined #lisp 16:45:25 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:45:29 think that was in ascii85. pull and try again (note there are known bugs ;) 16:45:55 tcr: but yes, it's not a straightforward issue 16:47:53 I'm happy if it's loading so M-. works 16:48:33 -!- Guest8927 [n=Kenjin@109.50.41.118] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 16:48:52 Krystof_ [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:49:38 -!- yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-94-75.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:50:56 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-115-144.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:53:19 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@83.222.175.184] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:53:48 Axius [n=ade@92.85.208.91] has joined #lisp 16:55:29 yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-255-148.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 16:55:45 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-180-123.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:56:49 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 16:56:52 -!- nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:57:23 nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:57:42 -!- nunb [n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Client Quit] 17:01:13 billstclai [n=billstcl@74.209.25.128] has joined #lisp 17:01:23 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:02:31 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:06:28 serichse` [n=user@hmbg-4d06ccb0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:53 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d066d8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:06:57 -!- serichse` is now known as serichsen 17:07:54 -!- Axius [n=ade@92.85.208.91] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:12:49 -!- yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109-184-2-117.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:15:19 Drakeson [n=user@69-196-172-71.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:04 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:17:12 nha [n=prefect@31-174.4-85.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:17:52 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:18:15 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 17:19:05 hmmm. i keep getting EPROTONOSUPPORT when i fire up more than 200 threads while benchmarking redis 17:19:09 G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.96.115] has joined #lisp 17:19:21 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:19:21 cl-redis, rather 17:20:25 i am getting 10k successive requests in 5 seconds. which is not bad, but with threads it's more like 20 seconds 17:20:36 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:22:00 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:23:47 fusss pasted "erratic benchmark behaviour" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90320 17:23:55 -!- EnglishGent [n=EnglishG@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:24:43 the same command executes in in time T where T < 6 seconds, or T > 26 seconds 17:25:09 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:25:41 actually, it alternates between 5, 6, 26, 60, and 86; +-2 17:26:01 Messi [n=n@13.231.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:26:04 juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html 17:26:08 -!- Messi [n=n@13.231.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:29:37 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:30:15 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-71-211.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:31:07 -!- levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-94-44-13-195.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 17:31:14 -!- lichtblau [n=user@77-22-106-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:31:25 -!- gruseom [n=daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 17:32:23 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:35:17 nunb [n=nundan@94.160.63.146] has joined #lisp 17:35:32 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 17:35:37 Greetings. 17:36:31 picnik330 [n=nikita@77.79.171.178.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has joined #lisp 17:37:13 I'm pondering setting *READ-DEFAULT-FLOAT-FORMAT* to 'DOUBLE-FLOAT but am concerned about the side effects. Is there a specific reason it is 'SINGLE-FLOAT? 17:38:02 -!- Adlai``` is now known as Adlai 17:38:40 froydnj: Look at define-api.lisp in sequence-iterators/, perhaps you'll like it. (For example, I wondered what the format parameter of encode-octets is supposed to be.) 17:39:36 tcr: a keyword denoting the particular encoding: :base16, :base32, :base64, :base85, :ascii85, etc. 17:39:48 Yeah I see that by M-. on encoding-tools 17:40:03 froydnj: define-api allows you to conveniently define ftypes for your exported functions 17:40:08 docs are on the list 17:40:29 argh, darcs 17:40:32 Hello, #lisp. I have a hash-table. How do I get first key of this hash? 17:40:51 picnik330: There is no 'first' key, it's a hash-table. 17:41:04 I know ^) This is a trouble 17:41:21 *froydnj* attempts to nudge people away from darcs 17:41:25 you can use maphash or with-hash-table-iterator to walk over it 17:41:38 Or loop 17:41:46 froydnj: Towards? 17:41:46 does using keywords as keys in a big hashmap implies any backside ? 17:42:01 froydnj: :) Tough luck. 17:42:03 *imply 17:42:09 (defun get-something (table) (maphash (lambda (key value) (return-from get-something (values key value))) table)) 17:42:37 tmh: something else 17:42:38 rares [n=rares@174-26-23-170.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:47 20,000 requests per second. I WIN! 17:42:51 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:43:00 sayyestolife [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 17:43:28 froydnj: Pencil and a scratchpad? 17:43:44 nikodemus, I meant uning (setf (gethash :it-it *locales*) (list ...))) 17:43:50 tmh: and pigeons for networking. would be better 17:43:56 instead of 'it-it 17:44:13 Can I make a macro that expands it self recursively (to the endp of a list)? 17:44:41 froydnj: I ask because I've been trying to nudge myself away from darcs. 17:44:45 When I try to use the latest cvs checkout of slime, first it says that slime and swank are different versions, then it fails to load the REPL, any ideas what's up? 17:45:02 Borbus: Restart your emacs instance 17:45:08 kiuma: that was to picnik330 17:45:33 ehh ? 17:45:36 ahhh 17:45:39 :) 17:45:40 kiuma: keywords are fine 17:45:45 thanks 17:46:10 george_ [n=george@189.107.176.74] has joined #lisp 17:46:18 kiuma: did you ever play with Redis? 17:46:19 -!- ziga` [n=user@BSN-142-96-116.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:46:39 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:46:49 -!- picnik330 [n=nikita@77.79.171.178.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has quit ["    (xchat 2.4.5  )"] 17:47:06 tmh: I have used both hg and git, though not intensively, and like them both. 17:47:12 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has left #lisp 17:47:17 REDIS> (time (with-redis (dotimes (x 20000) (redis-mget "foo")))) Evaluation took: 1.214 seconds of real time 17:47:33 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 17:47:45 fusss, what is it ? 17:47:49 tcr: I have a few times, after answering 'y', I quit the inferior lisp process and restarted emacs, it still asks about the different versions 17:48:05 fusss, why ? 17:48:44 -!- nunb [n=nundan@94.160.63.146] has left #lisp 17:48:44 nunb [n=nundan@94.160.63.146] has joined #lisp 17:48:45 kiuma: fastest database i have ever seen 17:49:11 e 'stato scrito de un programmatore italiano 17:49:13 antirez 17:49:17 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@soup.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 17:49:43 -!- george [n=george@189.107.176.74] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:49:56 http://code.google.com/p/redis/wiki/Comparisons 17:50:16 tcr: ah.. I think I know why.. I have old compiled versions of swank that are being run by sbcl 17:50:36 /sbcl-1.0.18.debian-linux-x86-64/swank-presentations.fasl for example 17:50:42 *Xach* is pleased that there 10 Lisp meetings coming up in the next 30 days 17:50:50 "Redis is pretty fast!, 110000 SETs/second, 81000 GETs/second in an entry level Linux box" <-- NoMySQL indeed 17:51:15 Xach: I am meeting Al Picard in a few days, (incf *meetings*) 17:51:24 froydnj: I'm leaning towards git for 2 reasons. Inertia and branching. Just need to learn it well enough so that I can adapt it to my work flow and my work flow to it. 17:51:27 Because I had the debian slime package installed before 17:51:41 fusss: Do it in public, make a real meeting of it! 17:51:50 Xach, you need to get hold of the recording of the last Philly Lisper Meeting 17:51:54 jmbr [n=jmbr@172.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:51:59 How do I get sbcl to use the new swank files not the old fasls? 17:52:01 Xach, apparently it was recorded 17:52:03 joswig: last i heard it would be online "in a few days" 17:52:33 Xach, can't wait to see the Conrad Barski talk ;-) 17:52:45 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:50 git is simplicity deified 17:52:51 *Xach* will keep an eye out 17:52:53 "Grand Theft Wumpus" 17:52:59 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:53:05 -!- paw` [n=user@78-69-84-129-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 17:53:37 rares: Hardly 17:53:39 Krystof__ [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:53:53 Borbus: something funny is going on, but easiest way is probably to delete the old fasls 17:54:04 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:44 (unless this is Return of The CLC, in which case all bets are off...) 17:54:49 Can I just delete everything in /var/cache/common-lisp-controller/1000/sbcl ? 17:54:59 -!- Krystof_ [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:55:03 so it IS Return of CLC! 17:55:11 george__ [n=george@189.107.176.74] has joined #lisp 17:55:22 get rid of common-lisp-controller, install sbcl and slime from upstream 17:55:33 smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:50 when uninstalling debian slime, remember to use "apt-get uninstall slime --purge" 17:56:11 -!- george_ [n=george@189.107.176.74] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:56:14 at some point it used to leave bits of itself behind, causing problems akin to this 17:56:31 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:58:19 Actually using purge seems to have got rid of the slime/swank different versions warning 17:59:02 Still didn't load the REPL though 17:59:14 *p_l* is giddy seeing Pl/Scheme with format function 17:59:21 emacsed [n=anna@72.8.31.2] has joined #lisp 17:59:26 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-131-243-232.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:59:44 What is common-lisp-controller then? Part of debian's sbcl package? 18:00:38 Borbus: no, it's a separate package designed in Debian that also happens to appear in few other places 18:00:42 Borbus: it's a sort of compilation manager layered on top of all lisps on debian (not just sbcl) 18:00:44 (like Gentoo, at one point) 18:00:50 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:37 rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 18:03:02 Hmm.. including the slime-repl package workds 18:03:27 Even though the manual says the default minimal config should load the repl 18:04:25 -!- nunb [n=nundan@94.160.63.146] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:05:08 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.118.137] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:05:08 -!- george__ [n=george@189.107.176.74] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:05:23 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has left #lisp 18:06:46 george__ [n=george@189.107.176.74] has joined #lisp 18:06:55 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.118.137] has joined #lisp 18:07:01 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.118.137] has left #lisp 18:07:14 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 18:09:05 Borbus: it's outdated 18:09:11 I guess :) 18:09:56 -!- borism [n=boris@213.35.235.143] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:10:07 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["hometime"] 18:10:46 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:10:48 whoppix_ [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:10:52 Yeah, it looks like some stuff was put into contrib packages, including the repl, and the install section wasn't updated 18:10:56 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 18:11:02 -!- whoppix_ [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:13:05 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:48 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:17:14 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:19:02 -!- Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:21:32 prince` [n=user@218.232.175.55] has joined #lisp 18:21:41 -!- emacsed [n=anna@72.8.31.2] has quit [Client Quit] 18:21:47 -!- thatdavidmiller [n=thatdavi@87-194-167-91.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:23:00 I wonder if the debian common lisp team does more harm than good. 18:23:56 Otoh, they need to package cl libraries /somehow/.. 18:24:17 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:12 Tordek [n=tordek@host183.190-137-182.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:25:33 Which is how CLC was born, in vacuum and in isolation from the mythic lisp community. 18:27:16 -!- Krystof__ is now known as Krystof 18:27:23 deepfire: how can I put it? Um, no 18:27:42 Krystof, how would you put it then? 18:28:08 it was born out of the attempt to make things easier for a lisp community 18:28:16 leo2007 [n=leo@soup.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:28:25 the intent is clear, indeed 18:28:34 the people who worked on it also worked on very many other bits of lisp infrastructure 18:28:45 and implementations, and packaging, and 18:29:02 and frankly it's insulting to say that clc was born in vacuum and isolation 18:29:12 nowherman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:12 -!- nowhereman [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:29:21 Yea, it's not that they weren't part of the lisp community, it's just that their idea on how to make things better didn't fully succeed... 18:29:31 Those are completely different problems. 18:29:35 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:29:38 nikodemus: I like NOTE-OPTIMIZABLE-FUN, very clever 18:29:39 rstandy [n=rastandy@151.53.240.131] has joined #lisp 18:31:26 ziga` [n=user@89.142.96.116] has joined #lisp 18:32:02 I feel that CLC represents the case where implementation is ahead of consensus. This points to at least /some/ communication problem. 18:32:05 nullman` [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:20 oh, well, feelings 18:32:31 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@soup.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:33:14 sayyestolife: yes, macros are functions like any other. (It must terminate like any other if 18:33:21 it calls itself. 18:33:40 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:33:45 -!- joswig [n=joswig@f054055194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:33:54 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:33:54 Or it may includes a call to itself in the generate code, which is something different, but it will work, since the compiler expands iteratively until it has only primitives. 18:33:57 From my POV, the issue with CLC is that there *is* no good solution to the problem it's trying to solve which is workable without drastically improving the lisp implementations. 18:35:01 froydnj: the benefit isn't as big as one might thing, but it does make for nicer code in places, not having to worry about intermediate values quite so much 18:35:01 i wanted to do something more general, but could not figure out how 18:35:11 deepfire: you might want to read http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/f5f837f781a007bb?hl=en&dmode=source 18:35:23 (basically, to transform chained vector ops into just passing around the vector in an xmm reg -- ran into a wall there) 18:35:41 serichse` [n=user@hmbg-4d06ccb0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:46 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:35:52 -!- prince` [n=user@218.232.175.55] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:36:19 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 18:36:56 The lisp libraries could be compiled to binaries on the buildd infrastructure. But since there's no binary compatibility between versions of e.g. sbcl, they'd have to rebuild everything every time a new one came out. They could be compiled site-wide upon package installation and installed in a central place, but that's too slow. So you're left with the result: compiled on demand separately for every user, at first usage. 18:37:23 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32EEAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:45 did you try just lying in vops and say you were returning double-float regs when in reality they were single-float-vector regs? I suppose the types don't work out there, hm... 18:38:19 i can't remember what i tried, anymore 18:38:25 foom: I don't see why the second alternative is bad; IIUC, that's what elisp packages do 18:38:45 froydnj: because elisp packages are quick to "compile". 18:39:01 froydnj: (it's also what python packages do, btw.) 18:39:09 -!- kejsaren1 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:39:21 *shrug* only has to be done at package installation, and possibly implementation installation 18:39:34 I'm pretty sure CLC *did* that in a past version, but people complained that it made their apt-get updates take way too long. 18:39:45 hah! 18:39:54 look through the version history, it's rather a trip 18:39:55 We could still easily enough compile for ALL the free implementations. 18:40:13 Many different schemes were tried, and failed for one reason or another 18:40:20 We could package them as "fat libraries". 18:40:33 There was a "compiler-daemon" version for a little while, even. 18:40:35 Krystof, do you think that my intent was to idly proclaim "Sucks."? 18:40:48 Of course since some implementations evolve faster than the libraries, we would have to recompile as an on-going basis... 18:40:56 But it should be automatic. 18:41:29 Krystof, I appreciate your movement to provide historic context, though. 18:41:30 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@94-195-207-239.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:41:57 ..or, more simply, thanks! 18:42:22 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-talyzlhkoxjraojw] has joined #lisp 18:43:05 It would be interesting for someone to explore how difficult it would be to actually make a stable ABI for some impl. 18:43:19 My intuition is that it would be quite difficult. :) 18:44:02 (Plus it's not high on my person needs list) 18:44:33 -!- nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:44:43 *deepfire* remembers to save this conversation 18:45:22 albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 18:45:25 minion, tell deepfire about LOGS 18:45:26 deepfire: please look at LOGS: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 18:45:41 pjb: I've written something that more or less does that 18:45:46 but no one cares, heh 18:46:05 -!- rares [n=rares@174-26-23-170.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:47:31 Adlai, I have my own logs, thanks. I referred to extraction, cleanup and storing of this conversation along with relevant ones. 18:48:40 *deepfire* has a library buildbot for CL cooking. 18:48:40 oh sure, saving the interesting conversations is much better than "grepping" your memory for keywords for grepping your logs to find those conversations months later 18:49:36 -!- nullman` is now known as nullman 18:50:34 nostoi [n=nostoi@179.Red-79-151-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:39 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06ccb0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:50:52 c|mell [n=cmell@89.249.195.34] has joined #lisp 18:50:59 rahul, could you elaborate on what you have? 18:51:18 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 18:51:21 a debian/rules builder that introspects a .asd 18:51:39 That's wonderful. Can I have that? 18:51:55 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:01 I could extend the buildbot with an automatic debian/rules generation pass. 18:53:35 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-25-128.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:53:53 -!- serichse` is now known as serichsen 18:53:56 dysinger_ [n=dysinger@32.177.83.159] has joined #lisp 18:53:58 rahul, is it formulated as a standalone .asd package? 18:54:25 no, it's just a file of code 18:54:39 hmm I think I posted it to the asdf list a few years ago 18:54:44 We can do the packaging bit. 18:55:50 rather, it was probably on the cclan list 18:56:06 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 18:56:14 rahul, does http://osdir.com/ml/lisp.cclan.general/2007-01/txtiGFTV5KGlH.txt look like un up-to-date version? 18:57:07 aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:57:13 Moop [n=Moop@c-98-244-54-141.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:44 it's probably somewhat up to date 18:57:48 haven't worked on it much since 18:57:52 Tristam [n=Tristam@cpe-67-242-194-48.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:54 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:57:57 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:58:26 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@cpe-67-242-194-48.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 18:58:42 Ok, do you mind if I set up a git repository for it and massage it into a package? 18:58:43 hmm, I think I need to get it from my scsi disk to see if there are any changes 18:58:52 deepfire: it's all yours 18:58:59 share and enjoy :) 18:59:04 Tristam [n=Tristam@cpe-67-242-194-48.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:29 I'm interested in seeing the latest version, though :-) 18:59:50 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:50 But don't worry about that too much.. 18:59:52 if there are any changes, they're merely tweaks and not structural 18:59:57 list noob here.. Is there a predicate for differentiating between an operator such as + and a variable such as "a" 19:00:04 fihi09 [n=user@pool-71-190-74-115.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:08 Ok, I will proceed then. 19:00:20 Moop: + is a symbol 19:00:24 oh haha 19:00:35 I never wrote install-source-files 19:00:41 Moop: (symbolp '+) => t, (symbolp "a") => nil 19:00:54 maybe that's what I have on that scsi drive... 19:01:02 Xach: ah, I meant a without quotes 19:01:04 (symbolp 'a) +> t 19:01:10 Xach: like in the list (+ 2 a) 19:01:28 -!- Kolyan [n=nartamon@95-24-125-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Network is unreachable] 19:01:32 i want to differentiate between the operator and a non-operator, non integer 19:01:37 Moop, you can try things like fboundp 19:01:39 clhs fboundp 19:01:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fbound.htm 19:01:47 if you're trying to figure out which symbols have global functions (or macros) associated with them, FBOUNDP does that 19:01:56 basically, you need to recurse down modules and for file components you copy the file over to the right location in debian/usr/share/common-lisp/ 19:01:56 clhs special-operator-p 19:01:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_specia.htm 19:02:00 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-48-196.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:02:16 Moop: all symbols 19:02:20 CAN be operators 19:02:40 just because it's not defined as a function now doesn't mean it never will be 19:02:56 that's why undefined function is a warning, not an error, when you compile 19:03:17 oh man 19:03:20 thats complex 19:03:21 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-32-48.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:03:22 it's actually an established coding style to write a function that calls undefined functions 19:03:44 and then you run it and when you get into the debugger because of an undefined function, you define it, and restart the frame that tried to run it 19:03:45 rahul, what email address do you prefer to be contacted with about FOSS matters, these days? 19:04:01 *deepfire* fills the .asd file 19:04:04 deepfire: hmm, rjain at nyct.net should be back up and working soon 19:04:06 Moop: what are you trying to do? 19:04:09 Moop, fboundp &co will tell you whether something is a function right now, though 19:04:25 nikodemus: homework lol 19:04:33 specifically, part 3 of this pdf 19:04:35 http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~olsson/academic/classes/ecs140a/2009.04/files/hw4/06.pdf 19:04:35 Moop: operator-ness is determined by the location in code 19:04:39 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@32.177.36.147] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:04:40 -!- dysinger_ is now known as dysinger 19:04:47 Moop: it's just part of the evaluation rules of lisp 19:05:01 I'm having a pretty hard time grasping lisp after using C++/Java for so long 19:05:02 the head of a form to be evaluated is the operator. 19:05:10 Moop: yep, that's common 19:05:20 Moop: knowing C++ or Java actually makes it harder to learn Lisp 19:05:29 Common LISP, that's a new one 19:05:30 if you know no other languages, it's easier to learn Lisp 19:05:31 minion: tell moop about that-dead-sexy-book 19:05:32 moop: please see that-dead-sexy-book: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:05:56 moop, ah I did undergrad at ucdavis, 19:06:11 moop, is that the prog languages course? 19:06:15 yeah 19:06:27 Moop: the excercise seems to say pretty clearly that + and * are the only operands you have to deal with 19:06:53 I could test for them specifically 19:07:08 my implementation is going to be long and unefficient 19:07:23 in context of the exercise that sounds reasonable 19:07:41 because I can't really differentiate between a list that is evaluateable and a list that isn't (ie, it has a variable in it) using 1 function 19:08:02 note one thing, though: the operator is always the first element of the list (or sublist) 19:08:17 code=data 19:08:21 :D 19:08:45 yeah, ziga`, that one thing makes lisp pretty difficult lol 19:08:49 '(+ 1 1) -> (+ 1 1), (+ 1 1) -> 2 19:09:13 Moop: actually, it's what makes this easy 19:09:28 if code were not data, you'd be manipulating strings to do this 19:09:33 it's simple, every functioncall in lisp is a list with the first element being the function.. however you can also use lists for data - with quote 19:10:02 Moop: imagine trying to use perl regex to simplify mathematical expressions 19:10:05 so if you don't have to check for malformed inputs, you can just trust that each list (or sublist) starts with a valid operator 19:10:06 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:16 im pretty good with regex but I've never done any perl 19:10:26 but you need to look at the operator to figure out what the simplification rules are 19:10:36 hmm, thats a good point 19:10:40 to know what the identity is, most importantly 19:10:46 (first '(+ 1 a)) -> + while (first (+ 1 a)) -> error, because lisp cant compute (+ 1 a) 19:11:01 to combine lierals, you can just blindly funcall it 19:11:11 nested arith operations are not a regular languge (neither prefix nor infix), so you can't parse them with regexps anyways... 19:11:21 hmm, what equality test do I use for +? 19:11:23 or *? 19:11:25 nikodemus: perl regex are not regular either :) 19:11:42 isn't there like 4 different equality functions? 19:11:45 (equal (first '(+ 1 a)) '+) 19:11:52 Moop, try EQL, it'll test whether two symbols are the same. I really recommend that you read the relevant PCL chapter, though. 19:11:57 equal is the 'strongest' 19:12:21 eq is memory location comparison 19:12:24 pretty much all I've read on lisp is : http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/paulgraham/acl2.txt 19:12:26 afaik 19:12:46 Moop, didn't somebody (I think nikodemus ) already give you a link to PCL via minion 19:12:48 ? 19:12:54 yeah 19:13:28 Moop: it has better prose than you'll find on IRC ;) 19:13:39 omg pcl is da shit 19:13:49 so gud 19:13:52 --> home 19:13:56 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:13:57 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:13:57 i'm not sure how much time I will have to read it though :S 19:14:22 I think I can solve this with what I know already, my implementation will just be really... uhh... bad 19:14:23 Can someone explain why this macro goes into an infinite loop? http://lisp.pastebin.com/m58dabf62 19:14:36 Moop, you can work through it slowly, while dipping into relevant parts for reference (ie to read about equality predicates) 19:14:50 Adlai: will do, thanks guys 19:15:08 also, don't be worried about bad code, but once you've written it, feel free to come here, post your code on lisppaste, and ask for comments 19:15:21 -!- roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 19:15:27 minion: Lisp Survey? 19:15:28 Lisp Survey: http://www.common-lisp.net/~dlw/LispSurvey.html A survey by Daniel Weinreb comparing Common Lisp implementations, both commercial and open-source, that were active as of late 2007. It also has useful links to learning resources at the end 19:15:29 people here hate bad code and will either yell at you or suggest improvements, hopefully more of the latter :) 19:15:34 sayyestolife, well foo is being called outside a backquote 19:15:58 mkay, but isn't this the right way to write recursive macros? 19:16:00 sayyestolife: FOO is a macro and doesn't evaluate its arguments. so when you do (foo (rest list)), FOO gets (REST LIST) as its argument. 19:16:11 ah I see 19:16:35 makes sence actually 19:17:27 sayyestolife, duh, sorry I wasn't thinking 19:18:01 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-209-197.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:09 levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-94-44-13-195.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 19:18:44 Moop, good luck with your work 19:18:47 but isn't there a way to write recursive macros? 19:18:54 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:21:21 michaeljaaka [n=michael@167-mo6-7.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 19:21:32 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-249.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 19:22:22 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:22:48 sayyestolife: Why would you want a recursive macro? 19:22:49 reply, result, response; pick one noun and stick with it in your sources, or you will go insane. 19:23:35 wgl: Well, I'm doing an assignment and I think it would be a good idea, (I might be totally out there though) 19:24:21 deepfire: juanjo has a build bot for libraries too 19:25:02 tcr: neat! is it online? 19:26:22 tcr, I know, yes 19:26:58 I should steal code from him, actually. 19:27:36 The problem is, I don't know how ECL specific it is, and I'm SBCL-only atm. 19:28:20 Moop: 19:28:24 deepfire: I don't think it's much ECL specific, and really it should be a joint venture. 19:28:28 sayyestolife, I posted some small changes (and corrections to my changes) to your macro. And yes, it looks "out there" but I hope it helps 19:28:32 I've just written the simplify 19:28:37 for fun 19:28:43 :S 19:28:46 deepfire: In fact, he seems to be keen on it (I mean actively maintaining) 19:29:58 tcr, thank you for pointing it out to me. For some obscure reason I didn't seriously consider collaborating with him on that. 19:30:03 ziga` pasted "simplify" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90326 19:30:03 the hardest part is determining if I can evaluate the list now, or if it contains a variable :| 19:30:07 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:30:12 Xach: http://ecls.sourceforge.net/logs_lib.html 19:30:14 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@179.Red-79-151-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 19:30:20 a bit dirty Moop but it works 19:30:38 it was an interesting lesson for me 19:30:38 :D 19:30:40 tcr, most probably because I was in a feature rush mode and I didn't want to disturb him.. 19:30:45 unfortuneately 19:30:49 we are not allowed to use any iteration 19:30:53 http://paste.lisp.org/display/90326 19:30:55 only recursive solutions 19:31:01 it is recursive 19:31:02 But now it's probably time to begin building bridges.. 19:31:03 ok 19:31:12 you can map instead of dolist.. 19:31:20 deepfire: Yes _please_ 19:31:51 tcr, the thing is a buildbot is "merely" a feature on the desire's foundation. 19:31:51 iteration is a special case of recursion 19:32:34 tcr, something I need to keep the vast amount of upstream definitions from rotting. 19:32:42 a loop can be written as a function that takes in parameters for all the values that change from one iteration to another 19:32:52 deepfire: Useful features are the best features 19:33:09 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:33:13 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:33:25 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:40 instead of going to the next iteration autmatically, you need to manually make a recursive call. the default in an iteration is to keep looping. the default in a recursion is to return a result 19:33:52 tcr, a package manager able to bootstrap climacs with dependencies from upstream must be pretty useful too :-) 19:34:27 I'm not sure usefulness is what I associate with Climacs 19:34:53 sayyestolife: The best advice I have seen about macros is to write down the expected output of the macro, that is, the revised source, and the input, then figure out from that how the macro should transform the source. Not sure how to advise you on the side-effect of that that results in a recursive macro. 19:35:08 I mentioned it because McCLIM has an especially tangled dependency graph. 19:35:42 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 19:35:50 deepfire: I do not know about desire, but what the haskell world has managed to build with cabal is a worth a look 19:35:56 Requiring some ASDF-specific trickery to unwind properly. 19:36:27 Also notice that D.Herring does some kind of regression testing for libcl 19:36:27 tcr, it's on my list, most definitely 19:36:33 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:36:41 tcr, he's on the list as well 19:36:52 er, mailing list, even :-) 19:36:57 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@cpe-67-242-194-48.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:37:14 You should really try to bridge as soon as possible. You're trying to address a social problem which is hard to come by alone 19:37:27 hard as in incredibly time-consuming 19:37:40 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 19:37:43 tcr, I don't want to discourage people with vaporware either 19:38:08 vaporware? 19:38:13 -!- rlonstei1 is now known as rlonstein 19:38:18 where did that came from now 19:38:27 the mists? 19:38:52 I want 100% actionable definitions for both clbuild and libcl package sets, and I need a buildbot for maintaining that. 19:39:08 I have the definitions already actually, just not tested. 19:39:26 Once I have them, I'll start pestering people. 19:39:28 what is "actionable definitions" supposed to mean? 19:39:59 basically, loadable packages, from the end-user point of view. 19:39:59 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:40:29 desire does everything->git conversion, so this is also a factor 19:41:03 -!- G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.96.115] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:41:29 libcl does so too for its set 19:42:08 deepfire: https://bugs.launchpad.net/asdf -- you may be interested in seeing some of those issues be solved, too, and may want to say so :) 19:42:18 mbishop [n=mbishop@geeks.im] has joined #lisp 19:42:39 tcr, thanks, noted 19:44:50 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:45:10 ruediger_ [n=quassel@93-82-7-223.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:47:21 froydnj: I think, in decode-octets*, you should call adjust-array rather than subseq. 19:47:45 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-71-5.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:47:54 Hi, I was wondering if there was a way to script interaction with swank? I have a long running Lisp webapp, and I'd like to write a cron job that runs a function on the lisp image to cleanly shut it down, then backs up some data, and starts it back up. I can script the restart and the backup - but I don't know how to initiate the shutdown externally ... (using SBCL, if it's relevant) 19:48:08 tcr: why? the array is (probably) simple, so adjust-array is not appropriate 19:48:57 froydnj: adjust-array will DTRT if it's adjustable, and if not it will expand to the subseq 19:49:09 smanek: you could listen on a socket and write some data to it from an outside source. 19:49:20 My ugly, hackish workaround is to have lisp occasionally check for a specific '.shutdown' file - and when that file is touched it cleanly shuts itself down. But that seems like it has too many moving parts 19:49:41 I'm selling my copy of PAIP on Amazon if anyone wants to buy it :P 19:49:58 smanek: i suppose you could also use a named pipe 19:50:03 smanek: that way you wouldn't have to poll. 19:50:18 froydnj: Perhaps an additional keyword parameter for adjust-array would make sense which would internally use %shrink-vector instead of shrink-vector? (I may be talking rubbish here, I'm not that well intimately versed with array details) 19:50:35 Xach: I'm not familiar with named pipes: will investigate thank you. 19:51:15 *tcr* never uses adjustable array because of their bad reputation :/ 19:51:20 smanek: it's a unix feature, and i've never tried it, but i think you could use mkfifo to make a named pipe somewhere, open it on the lisp side, and do a blocking read or perhaps LISTEN to wait for input. 19:51:31 A thought occurred: is there any way I can right my own signal (i.e., in the sigterm sense) handler in lisp. So I can just send a signal to the process and it will initiate it's own shutdown ... 19:51:52 smanek: yes. sb-sys:enable-interrupt iirc. 19:51:59 tcr: hm, clever! I didn't realize adjust-array worked on non-simple arrays. I suppose that might permit sbcl to use %shrink-vector internally 19:52:08 s/right/write/ 19:52:25 well, with some extra compiler analysis... 19:52:39 Xach: Thanks again, far better options than the ugly file hack I initially thought of 19:52:49 tcr: but the other reason is that SUBSEQ would compile down to something fast, whereas ADJUST-ARRAY is rather expensive 19:52:52 smanek: e.g. (sb-sys:enable-interrupt sb-posix:sigterm (lambda () ...)) 19:53:35 froydnj: adjust-array specifies to return a copy, hence my idea about an additional (non-standard) keyword 19:53:51 (in case of non-adjustable array) 19:53:57 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 19:54:01 -!- mbishop [n=mbishop@geeks.im] has left #lisp 19:55:03 hmm, I don't see documentation on the sb-sys:enable-interrupt method online ... I can probably figure it out though. Thanks 19:55:29 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 19:55:31 froydnj: actually I wonder why I thought it were specified to return a copy in that case 19:56:22 anon_ [n=anon@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 19:56:37 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-091-126.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 19:58:18 -!- jleija [n=jleija@98.91.0.142] has quit ["leaving"] 19:59:26 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:01:00 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@172.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:01:34 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:01:39 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:58 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:02:56 -!- michaeljaaka [n=michael@167-mo6-7.acn.waw.pl] has quit [] 20:04:31 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:08 -!- sayyestolife [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 20:05:08 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:05:54 *fusss* cl-redis is <4 hours away \o/ 20:05:56 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:06:22 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:06:32 oh jeez 20:06:36 my implementation is 20:06:39 lol 20:06:43 time to see if it compiles 20:06:46 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 20:07:22 Moop: i got first dips on the name, will register the cliki page (get-universal-time)!!111 20:07:52 O_O what 20:08:10 Tristam [n=Tristam@cpe-72-226-127-57.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:16 leo2007 [n=leo@soup.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:08:35 Moop: did you say you wrote Redis protocol client for CL? 20:08:43 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@cpe-72-226-127-57.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 20:08:47 uh, no 20:08:48 lol 20:08:50 i thought you were gonna release yours to rain on my parade 20:08:55 this is like my third day with lisp 20:09:06 oh 20:09:17 Tristam [n=Tristam@cpe-72-226-127-57.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:01 heh 20:10:34 cl-redis is not something to tackle until you've got a couple weeks under your belt. 20:10:50 literally, a week 20:11:02 i wrote the whole thing in the last 16 hours 20:11:04 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@89.249.195.34] has quit ["trouble ahead"] 20:11:21 +-2 hours i spent watching Die Hard 3 20:12:33 michaeljaaka [n=michael@167-mo6-7.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 20:14:36 redis sucks in one way; it indexes into lists. it has (L/R)[PUSH|POP] but no "next" or "succ" or even "cdr" 20:15:17 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:15:34 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-12294.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 20:16:16 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-talyzlhkoxjraojw] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:16:42 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:16:55 Jabberwockey: Are you going to revolutionize our business? 20:17:24 albino: Mmmh. Depends. 20:18:04 programmer arrests were made today in the Madoff case 20:18:14 Were they Lisp programmers? 20:18:41 "IBM Mainframe", I'm guessing RPG or COBOL 20:19:05 about time they were removed from the ecosystem then 20:19:06 ^^ 20:19:51 Nope 20:20:08 I see a PBS documentary on Maddoff and he ran a PC shop 20:20:40 http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Computer-programmers-accused-apf-1922510175.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=4&asset=&ccode= 20:20:53 Lycurgus: Wrong channel. 20:23:21 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:23:49 "boy did I get a wrong channel" 20:29:11 badipod [n=badipod@110.32.148.71] has joined #lisp 20:30:14 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:30:44 blarg 20:30:56 how do I load up a file using clisp so I can use its functions >.> 20:31:00 Bah why do pretty-graphics make any project look cool 20:31:06 clhs load 20:31:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_load.htm 20:31:52 stassats: thanks for the patch monkey work! 20:32:50 Moop: (load "filename") 20:33:04 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 20:33:11 thanks badipod, got it a couple seconds earlier though :) 20:33:12 yeah, ecl backend is becoming more usable 20:33:22 well, testing my simplify function and expecting epic fail 20:33:25 Moop: Lol, ok then :P 20:34:20 stassats: and thanks again for slime-open-system; I use it all the day 20:35:28 francogrex [n=user@91.177.147.12] has joined #lisp 20:35:43 great, and regarding isearch-system, i didn't find one-line solution while glancing over isearch.el. what's it supposed to do? 20:36:01 joshe [n=joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 20:36:45 search over all the files of a system 20:36:59 instead of wrapping 20:37:02 tcr: and ugly-graphics seem to have the opposite effect 20:37:13 wouldn't rgrep be better? 20:37:25 rgrep is supernice! 20:37:51 It so hurts that it's essentially broken on emacsw32.. 20:37:54 stassats: Do both 20:38:22 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:39:16 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 20:39:37 It'd be fun to have slime-org-mode-insert-system-file-links 20:40:07 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@32.177.83.159] has quit [] 20:40:28 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ouydnrpdpcssqarg] has joined #lisp 20:40:33 -!- badipod [n=badipod@110.32.148.71] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:03 I find that orgmode is a wonderful project browser, superior to just about anything I saw so far. But it has to be hand-maintained. 20:42:01 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:42:39 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:42:50 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 20:43:11 Foldable, categorisable list of file links. 20:43:26 s/list/hierarchy 20:43:46 And you even can tag the entries. 20:44:27 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Nantes-117-4-149.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:46:00 baddog [n=liam@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 20:46:01 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:46:03 whoppix_ [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:46:08 dysinger [n=dysinger@32.177.18.186] has joined #lisp 20:46:59 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-6-137.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:46:59 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:07 -!- whoppix_ is now known as whoppix 20:48:47 i asked it before i got no replies, but I'll try again: does anyone know where can I find a diagram describing the hierarchy of types in CL? 20:49:04 in the logs 20:49:10 (maybe such a thing does indeed not exist) 20:49:22 stassats: what logs? 20:49:30 minion: logs? 20:49:30 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 20:49:38 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.19.193] has joined #lisp 20:49:49 you can find a link to a nice diagram there 20:50:34 it's a joke? 20:50:34 you got a reply 20:50:36 in the year 2009, maybe even this fall 20:51:05 check the logs for shortly after you asked your question 20:51:08 you'll find an answer 20:51:32 i don't recall anyone answering, unless I was logged off 20:52:10 i remember someone gave a link not so long ago here 20:52:15 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:41 well then too bad i din't get it; 20:53:00 -!- Guest67387 [n=user@72.14.228.129] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:53:03 I have a class (but not type) hierarchy: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sellout42/3772201180/sizes/o/ 20:53:57 Moop_ [n=Moop@c-98-244-54-141.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:00 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@151.53.240.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:54:18 -!- Moop [n=Moop@c-98-244-54-141.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:54:19 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:01 stassats: could you apply http://repo.or.cz/w/gentoo-lisp-overlay.git/blob/HEAD:/app-emacs/slime/files/9999/swank-asdf-fresh-line.patch ? 20:58:00 Moop pasted "Program 3" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90342 20:58:26 so, heres my current solution to simplify 20:59:07 there is just one problem... when there are no variables it simplifies the expression to an operator and a number instead of just the number :S 20:59:28 Moop_: what's wrong with my version 20:59:38 Moop_: yours looks overcomplicated :D 20:59:49 ziga`: I don't know what it does o_o 20:59:58 -!- michaeljaaka [n=michael@167-mo6-7.acn.waw.pl] has quit [] 21:00:11 lol I have no problem if you want to do my hw, but I couldn't reproduce such code :) 21:00:19 so I wanted to give it a go 21:00:49 the way I do it is pretty complicated though X| 21:02:03 i guess after parseList I need to write a checksimplified then if it is, evaluate it 21:02:47 francogrex: ask aerique whether he still has cl-types.png 21:05:05 fe[nl]ix: what is it for? 21:05:51 Moop_: you create too many lists and use too many cars 21:06:14 Moop_: probably because you don't know that '() == nil 21:06:28 or something :) 21:06:47 backtick is really useful for returning lists 21:07:07 i know nil=() 21:07:38 the only time I use nil is for the base case in my recursion 21:07:38 stassats: when I use ,l with CCL, the prompt gets output at the end of the last line ";Loading ...lx3sfsl" instead of a new line 21:08:18 deylen [n=deylen@62.249.247.182] has joined #lisp 21:08:22 -!- rrice [n=rrice@adsl-99-164-40-151.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:08:47 basically I operate on the first element of a x, and splice it into the results for (parselist (cdr x)) 21:09:53 -!- birthday-coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["May the Coyoes cook you some hot chili some day!"] 21:12:04 ziga`: also, the problem with your solution is that we are strictly forbidden from using mapping or iteration. my TA posted this on our class forums 21:12:05 "You may use iterative features of LISP (e.g., go, do) only for surround-iterative." 21:12:12 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 21:12:19 oh wait nevermind, he said mapping is OK 21:12:38 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["Nichts mehr."] 21:12:41 but no recursion, but from what people have told me here recursion is a form of mapping? or something along those lines 21:13:07 recursion is inevitable for such tree like problems 21:13:09 yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109-184-216-76.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 21:13:32 well you can do it itaretively but tree like structures are naturally recursive 21:13:50 it's the same shit it the end 21:13:57 sellout: your digram is good. 21:14:29 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:31 stassats: ok thanks. I will ask him but sellout's diagram seems good 21:15:18 I'm loading a shared library and creating bindings for it at run-time. Unfortunately other functions in my program have to reference these loaded bindings, and as they are not defined until run-time, I get "Undefined Function" warnings. Any ideas? 21:15:20 francogrex: no need, it's the same diagram 21:15:22 The program still runs, its just an annoyance. 21:15:26 francogrex: I think I built it using CL-DOT and the MOP. 21:15:54 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-mqnobqzopoytkzih] has joined #lisp 21:15:58 -!- milanj [n=milan@109.93.33.54] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:16:15 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-091-126.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:16:18 sellout: pretty good. May I use it just to show to some collegues in a presentation of CL (no commercial purpose at all) 21:16:19 ska` [n=user@124.157.215.114] has joined #lisp 21:16:32 Feel free. 21:16:38 great. 21:16:48 I've tried using (eval-when (:execute) (function_loaded_at_runtime)) But it didn't seem to be working :( 21:16:54 -!- pragma_ is now known as RuralHack 21:19:36 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-89-114.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:20:45 deylen: define them at compilation time too? 21:21:25 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-091-126.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:21:34 Xach: Define the functions at compilation time as blank, and then redefine them when the shared library is loaded? 21:21:43 -!- RuralHack is now known as a 21:22:08 fe[nl]ix: that's with *print-verbose* t? 21:22:19 doh, with *load-verbose* 21:22:35 deylen: no, load the shared library at compilation time. 21:22:45 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ouydnrpdpcssqarg] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:23:04 -!- a is now known as pragma_ 21:23:31 stassats: yes 21:24:07 then C-c C-c does the same 21:24:14 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:24 so it should be fixed in a different place 21:24:33 what is the function for list length? 21:24:34 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.177.147.12] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:24:43 -!- yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109-184-216-76.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:24:44 or, even better, where is a good place to find such a function? 21:24:45 clhs length 21:24:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_length.htm 21:25:02 stassats: what is clhs? 21:25:15 Xach: Ah I see, unfortunately I am going to allow compiling to binary, and i've had issues reloading a library that has already been loaded. 21:25:16 common lisp hyperspec 21:25:22 stassats: I suppose that slime should always call FRESH-LINE before outputting the prompt 21:26:14 deylen: so, don't load it twice. 21:27:11 yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109-184-216-76.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 21:28:44 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 21:29:09 Xach: I wish I could :( When executing a compiled binary that has already loaded the shared library, I get show-stopping errors (especially in SBCL) about missing functions. (I'm guessing because of differences in memory addresses) Am I doing something wrong? Should this be possible? 21:29:22 -!- yaroslav_h [n=Yaroslav@109-184-255-148.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:30:06 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:31:07 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-091-126.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:32:44 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:33:38 Jasko [n=tjasko@174.59.195.12] has joined #lisp 21:34:08 Anyone know if there is any cross platform way of suppressing the "undefined function" warning? 21:34:30 define function 21:34:54 -!- nha [n=prefect@31-174.4-85.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:35:11 :D 21:37:55 McCLIM wizards? 21:37:57 :( 21:38:44 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:38:49 Well it seems like defining them as empty functions (defun test (&rest) rest) and then redefining them at run-time works wonders, thanks for the idea Xach :) 21:39:06 -!- deylen [n=deylen@62.249.247.182] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:39:40 ziga`: not a wizard. What's the question? 21:40:23 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-080-053.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:41:17 Krystof: I want to have a custom view in my Maxima GUI.. If you're familiar with Mathematica - something like mathematica notebook - editable 2d math expressions. I don't know how should I go about it - I gues subclassing 'application-pane' is the first correct step - then I probably have to write a custom 'display-function' for it, right? 21:41:53 you don't necessarily need to subclass application-pane 21:42:14 if you want something a bit like a lisp listener, you might want to read the CLIM Listener source code 21:42:40 in mcclim/Apps/Listener 21:43:11 Krystof: also I'm wondering if I should implement a new series of classes for representing 2d math expressions or should I use some functionality already in clim - like drei buffer or flexichains - I'm not familiar enough with these. Math expressions can be represented as doubly linked lists with nested stuff (for fractions and so on).. perhaps there is already something out there 21:43:55 Krystof: application pane is a stream pane with scrolling or something like that - sounds about right for my purpose? 21:44:01 -!- pjb [n=user@234.Red-88-28-236.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:44:15 I'll look into listener 21:45:24 ziga`: representation and layout can be approximately separate 21:45:48 aha 21:45:51 you can clim:present your internal maxima represntation as a presentation type (e.g. clim-maxima:formula) 21:45:53 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:46:05 and as long as you define a suitable presentation method, everything will "just work" 21:49:09 when I was learning lisp I thought lisp was tricky to understand, but now I see McCLIM is the most complicated thing out there :) 21:50:50 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:50:55 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:10 bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:28 -!- bohanlon is now known as bohanlon_ 21:51:40 ziga`: it is quite complicated; I hardly ever get code in it right first time 21:52:17 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-6-137.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:53:01 rares [n=rares@174-26-28-233.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:17 Krystof: McCLIM is probably as good an argument for and agains CL macros - it really adds another layer of confusion 21:53:28 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:44 easy for 'hello world', complicated beyond that 21:53:46 -!- yaroslav_h1 [n=Yaroslav@109-184-216-76.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:54:11 -!- levente_meszaros [n=levente_@apn-94-44-13-195.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 21:55:20 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:25 actually clim makes the difficult stuff easy 21:55:45 like making sure things react to the user in a uniform and sensible manner 21:57:19 -!- ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 21:58:16 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 21:58:29 on the other hand clim is pretty alien to a common computer user 21:59:06 it's definitely a lispy toolkit 21:59:08 :D 21:59:20 being as lispy as possible 21:59:44 actually, it's what people expect 21:59:53 things on the screen represent what they are, and are interactive 22:00:12 yes but it's raw out of the box 22:00:18 the whole "context menu" is basically what CLIM is based on 22:00:53 ziga`: well, the "interactor" stuff is a little more useful for applications that are unfinished 22:01:07 still, MS Word and Photoshop work similarly 22:01:20 well, I think Word stopped being like that around version 6 22:01:36 but there was an equivalent to M-x in word at that time 22:02:02 photoshop has a command history for managing undo and redo 22:02:41 people think in terms of commands being executed on objects most of the time, I think 22:03:09 rahul: I think McCLIM is great, no doubt, my problem is that I'm not smart enough to 'get it' ... wxWidgets were much friendlier in this regard :) 22:03:57 rahul: I agree.. with other toolkits you fake this interaction, clim gives it to you up front.. 22:04:57 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:08:16 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 22:08:27 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-25-128.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:08:29 holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:23 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:10:26 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:11:06 good night 22:11:32 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06ccb0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["and I'm floating in the most peculiar way"] 22:11:54 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:12:20 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:14:14 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:14:28 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:16:45 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:16:49 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-20-141.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:16:53 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:31 -!- anon_ [n=anon@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:20:38 -!- setheus_ [n=setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit ["leaving"] 22:21:22 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:22:01 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:22:31 # slightly different colour picker 22:23:37 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32EEAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:41 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:23:48 sweetandy [n=sweetand@c-98-237-235-242.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:28 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:28:50 Krystof: is the background meant to be black? 22:28:56 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:29:50 interesting app 22:30:09 seangrove [n=user@adsl-71-135-117-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:54 setheus [n=setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:00 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-080-053.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:32:20 ziga`: yes. The colours are displayed in CIE xy chromaticity space; the black is for colours that are unrepresentable on a standard sRGB display 22:33:05 -!- setheus [n=setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:05 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:35:39 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has joined #lisp 22:35:52 francogrex [n=user@91.177.147.12] has joined #lisp 22:37:38 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:38:53 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:39:01 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.177.147.12] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:39:27 sg [i=3e164621@gateway/web/freenode/x-lxuwkspxqeyldtwx] has joined #lisp 22:39:28 hi 22:39:41 liron [n=user@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:01 -!- sweetandy [n=sweetand@c-98-237-235-242.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:40:15 -!- bohanlon_ is now known as bohanlon 22:40:43 lichtblau [n=user@pD9542E2B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:41:26 -!- sg is now known as segoe 22:42:14 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:38 saikatc_ [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:29 deepfire: png.lisp in mcclim doesn't support transparent pngs, does it? 22:47:45 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:48:30 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:48:31 -!- saikatc_ is now known as saikatc 22:50:49 how do I get a thin red cursor instead of fat black one as I saw in some of the mcclim screenshots? 22:52:14 Moop pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90356 22:52:44 ziga`: do you know why that is not working? assuming my simplify works? 22:53:00 Fare [n=Fare@204.8.153.37] has joined #lisp 22:53:27 <_3b> Moop_: how is simplify supposed to see the LET bindings? 22:53:57 well, its inside lets parens right? 22:54:07 <_3b> the call to simplify is 22:54:08 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:54:12 what is sRGB vs RGB 22:54:14 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d2bc5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:54:19 i thought I might use eval 22:54:22 Moop_: it's because all the lists are quoted, symbol a never gets evaluated 22:54:24 but then, that would evaluage the + too 22:54:34 hi. Is anyone using the MT19937 PRNG with a seed bigger than 32-bit? 22:54:44 dont use eval 22:54:45 <_3b> eval wouldn't see those either 22:54:48 is there a good way to do it? or do I have to parse through manually? 22:55:05 oh and you have to make dynamic variables 22:55:19 dynamic.... variables? 22:55:24 (declare (special a b) ) or something like that 22:55:25 *_3b* would just pass a list/hashtable/etc containing a map of variable names to values 22:55:39 _3b is a hw problem lol 22:55:43 yes like in C - if you enter another function, local variables are not visible 22:55:43 that is not allowed 22:55:55 ah, well we aren't allowed to use globals either 22:55:56 <_3b> using lists isn't allowed? 22:56:03 dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:25 cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has joined #lisp 22:56:25 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-30-154.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:56:29 simplify must be a certain way 22:56:46 <_3b> well, don't expect useful answers if you don't tell us the 'certain way' :) 22:56:48 impossible way? 22:56:58 http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~olsson/academic/classes/ecs140a/2009.04/files/hw4/06.pdf 22:57:01 simplify is part 3 22:57:22 my simplify pretty much works save for some cases :( 22:57:32 so I decided to move to part 4, which seems pretty easy 22:58:06 <_3b> ok, so you have a simplified expression, and are expected to use eval, and told how to use it... what is the problem? 22:58:45 ok so third thing printed out will use eval 22:58:52 thats no problem 22:59:18 oh wait 22:59:31 should I pass the let into simplify? 22:59:49 you can always carry a list of bindings into recursion 22:59:54 it's dirty 23:00:01 it's effectively globals 23:00:02 :D 23:00:12 basically I need to be able to print out the output of simplify 23:00:17 with the letter substituted 23:00:19 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-71-211.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:00:21 then I need to evaluate that 23:00:28 .... I think, ima reread it to make sure 23:00:30 <_3b> why do you need that? 23:00:46 <_3b> you just need the final answer 23:01:08 check must return a list of 3 items 23:01:14 do you want (+ 2 2) or '4' in the end? 23:01:22 "The second element is the value of the arithmetic 23:01:23 expression x with those bindings." 23:01:32 I need both 23:01:58 the output of check is basically (as i understand it): (t (+ 2 2) 4) 23:02:27 nevermind, i'm an idiot 23:02:51 it would be (t 4 4) 23:02:55 no 23:02:58 yes 23:03:02 (t 4 4) 23:03:08 *_3b* likes how the assignments gives 'no credit if you use an 'evil' function ... e.g.,rplaca' but wants you to use eval :p 23:03:08 i forgot I had a file of test output 23:03:08 it's trivial 23:03:34 ima go get some pho I've been lisping for like 6 hours 23:04:06 im still need some pointer on part 3 >.>, I am currently using 5 helper functions and failing on 1 piece of input 23:05:52 -!- smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:06:13 (defun check (x) (let* ((simp (simplify x)) (simp-num (eval (list 'let ..bindings.. simp))) (num (eval (list 'let ..bindings.. x)))) (list (= simp-num num) simp-num num))) 23:06:23 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 23:06:59 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-30-154.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:08:05 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:08:47 he just needs to substitute and then simplify 23:09:02 no no 23:09:03 subst seems valuable in this sitiuation 23:09:24 (simplify (subst bindings expression)) 23:09:32 he need to evaluate the original expression and the simplified one with let bindings to see if the same number comes out 23:09:43 oh 23:09:53 there is no point in simplify if you have only numbers 23:10:15 simplify with only numbers means you get the end result of the computation 23:10:18 Moop_, part of the vietnamophile lisper association? 23:10:21 it's just an eval 23:10:59 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 23:11:28 rahul: true, but the point is to check if simplification is correct.. so first simplify the symbolic expression - then evaling it with real numbers should give the same result as evaling the unsimplified one 23:12:16 my english is weak 23:13:08 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-20-141.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 23:14:39 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:50 Moop_: does it work? 23:19:07 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.235] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:19:21 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:20:22 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:20:31 Moop_: You in .vn? 23:21:01 -!- acrid [n=mckay@204.126.146.202] has quit ["leaving"] 23:22:40 ziga`` [n=user@89.142.60.237] has joined #lisp 23:25:49 -!- seangrove [n=user@adsl-71-135-117-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:26:42 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 23:27:12 tessier: I doubt it. 23:27:35 *Fare* goes get Pho+? too.. 23:27:46 -!- clog_ [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:28:10 Yum, ph! 23:28:11 I go to Pho+? So^' Mo^.t 23:28:12 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 23:28:34 there's no better than the number one 23:29:12 Em Fare làm ǵ? 23:29:16 I thought pho only had one diacritic 23:29:42 rahul: That's true, there is only the ?. The hook is not a diacritic. 23:29:44 -!- ziga`` [n=user@89.142.60.237] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:30:22 hook? 23:30:35 latinized vietnamese is so confusing 23:30:43 rahul: latinized? 23:30:50 yeah, using the latin alphabet 23:30:59 rahul: What would otherwise be used? 23:31:20 yeah, the little hook on the right side of what would otherwise look like an `o'. 23:31:46 rahul: Do you think latinized French is confusing as well? 23:31:55 heh 23:32:08 they'd use whatever they used before the french wandered over there 23:32:50 well, french was latinized before the pronounciations all changed 23:32:53 like english 23:32:58 -!- warinthepocket [n=wipt@74-32-234-120.dr01.jrdn.mn.frontiernet.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:34:27 I never noticed that little smudge on the side of the o 23:34:44 rahul: Vietnamese was "latinized" quite a long time ago. It would probably be a lot more confusing to use some other writing system. 23:35:13 Vietnam used to use a Chinese-like writing. French Catholic missionary Alexander de Rhodes brought latin script to .vn 23:35:25 I've seen stelas and other things in .vn with the old style writing. 23:35:46 I have some art I bought from a monk with the old style characters written on it. 23:35:52 Pretty cool. 23:36:00 yeah 23:36:19 tessier: But that was what, 400 years ago? I doubt it would make rahul less confused to go back to what was befor 23:36:25 er, before. 23:36:29 although I don't know if using chinese-like writing would be any better of a fit 23:36:32 heh 23:36:57 I guess I can ignore half the random markings and at least get close to the right sounds 23:37:09 whereas with chinese I'd just be scratching my head 23:38:59 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 23:39:09 -!- ziga` [n=user@89.142.96.116] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:39:20 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-12294.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:39:56 beach: Yes, it was 400 years ago. 23:41:21 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-070-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:25 michaeljaaka [n=michael@167-mo6-7.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 23:41:26 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:41:54 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 23:42:05 sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has joined #lisp 23:42:20 how do I get FORMAT to output what WRITE would? 23:42:26 OT: if i want 3 nearly equal ranges of ips in the DHCP server (router) all at 192.168.0.x (192.168.x.y seems to not be well liked by the Q1000) what would the start end broadcast gateway and netmasks be i'm confuzzled 23:42:35 alternatively, how do I get WRITE to return a string? 23:42:54 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:42:56 clhs write-to-string 23:42:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_to_.htm 23:43:03 sweet. 23:43:11 stassats: thanke 23:43:37 -!- albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:43:40 Or you might like passing NIL as the first argument to FORMAT, depending on exactly what you're trying to accomplish. 23:44:22 what write would --- ~s ? 23:44:50 clhs ~s 23:44:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cdb.htm 23:45:19 clapautius [n=me@188.26.53.228] has joined #lisp 23:45:39 -!- Fare [n=Fare@204.8.153.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:45:43 or rather ~w 23:51:52 has been proposed any extension for Common Lisp to do pattern matching? 23:52:17 minion: pattern matching? 23:52:18 pattern matching: Libraries adding data-structure pattern matching operations to Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/pattern%20matching 23:53:31 stassats: thanks 23:54:09 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 23:55:27 segoe: what kind of pattern matching? like in ML? 23:55:29 clhs typecase 23:55:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_tpcase.htm 23:55:55 I think there's a destructuring-case macro out there 23:56:26 i'm looking for something like what Qi does 23:56:59 or at least something like: 23:57:12 (define fact 23:57:17 0 -> 0 23:57:20 n -> (* n (fact (- n 1)))) 23:57:21 seangrove [n=user@adsl-71-135-117-66.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:09 segoe: well, that's pretty basic 23:58:21 segoe: you can do that with defmethod, too 23:58:44 rahul: DEFGENERIC looks nice for those cases 23:58:45 mmm, i've never looked into clos 23:59:08 (defmethod fact ((n (eql 0)) 1) 23:59:23 (defmethod fact ((n integer) (* n (fact (1- n))) 23:59:27 (defgeneric fact (n) (:method ((n (eql 0))) ..)) 23:59:31 yeah 23:59:41 whichever syntax seems more comfortable to you 23:59:50 that one: (defmethod fact ((n integer) (* n (fact (1- n))) 23:59:56 it's exactly what i want