00:00:56 rahul: if not a macro to take a list, then a macro that takes a name to generate the (defgeneric ...) call, and then be able to do something like (mapcar #'defgeneric-macro list-of-names)... or similar 00:01:45 -!- nha [n=prefect@31-174.4-85.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:01:56 pjb: I was kind of wishing to have something like (cl/defun ....) => generates the code from DSL + makes a Lisp-accessible bridge 00:03:19 Shamwow: You can do this, but consider the possibility that a DEFGENERIC provides a documentation function. You might be happier just defining an editor template or using an emacs keyboard macro. 00:04:11 Macros are nice, but I have, over the years, had many hours of unpleasantness trying to understand code where stuff like classes were generated by macros. 00:04:50 rpg: True. I'm overlooking documentation for these slots, though, as they are rather self-evident in the context. 00:06:57 p_l: It's that it might be easier to do the compile-file function. 00:07:23 Shamwow: if you're not adding docstrings, then it's a waste of time to defgeneric 00:08:14 pjb: basically, the idea is to add a rather integrated OpenCL support :) 00:08:30 rahul: that's something I hadn't thought of! 00:08:32 thanks :) 00:08:47 -!- amaron [n=amaron@cable-89-216-181-46.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:09:24 Shamwow, rahul: My knee-jerk reaction was that defining a generic is not needed for slot readers/writers/accessors. But looking at the defclass ANSI page, I don't see this belief substantiated... 00:10:47 crink [n=crink@unaffiliated/crink] has joined #lisp 00:10:55 rpg: Is that to say defgeneric should be explicitly written out to ensure portability? 00:11:04 Yes. 00:11:18 A conformant program must use defgeneric before defmethod. 00:11:29 Shamwow: Or it might be to say that I have not read enough of the ANSI spec (which is what I'm implicitly asking). 00:11:52 I've got a little emacs command to collect the defmethods and insert corresponding defgeneric forms a the beginning of the file... 00:12:21 pjb: I'm including them just for what I see as good form, but now I've got a 2nd reason :) 00:12:36 pjb: could you post the command definition? 00:13:32 It is in http://darcs.informatimago.com/public/emacs/pjb-sources.el (command: insert-generics) 00:13:55 it MUST? 00:14:01 clhs defclass 00:14:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcla.htm 00:14:21 -!- crink [n=crink@unaffiliated/crink] has left #lisp 00:14:25 pjb: thank 00:14:28 (s) 00:15:25 rahul: do you mean the accessors? We can assume defclass do what is needed. 00:15:56 * Otherwise a generic function is created with the method specified by the method-defining form. 00:16:10 that is for ALL method-defining forms 00:16:52 (before, it says: When a method-defining form is evaluated, a method object is created and one of four actions is taken: 00:17:27 so the behavior in the case of no g-f being defined is specified 00:18:22 it is _nice_ to defgeneric, as a way to document your API, and I do, but I don't think you're required to, based on what is in the spec 00:20:02 rahul: you seem to be right indeed. It's just sbcl signaling a style warning when defmethod is called for a new generic. 00:20:21 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:20:54 yes 00:20:59 because it _could_ be a typo 00:21:01 -!- ericjames [n=ericjeld@166.132.162.25] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:21:45 and being able to actually pay attention instead of being spammed by that warning is another good reason to defgeneric 00:22:34 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:36 However, using defgeneric is problematic in the case where there are methods defined in different files. You must have only one defgeneric loaded first, otherwise the previously loaded methods will be erased. Hence you would have to put the defgeneric forms in a separate file, like macros... 00:23:51 minion: memo for sellout: If you're NoNoWriMo'ing in Emacs I have some elisp you might like. 00:23:51 Remembered. I'll tell sellout when he/she/it next speaks. 00:23:57 crink [n=crink@unaffiliated/crink] has joined #lisp 00:24:02 Isn't that only true of the methods defined _in_ the defgeneric form? 00:24:36 spill it 00:24:36 True. 00:24:51 I need to read clhs more precisely... 00:25:47 Osaka [n=yuki@fl-71-3-70-98.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:44 precision is valuable when reading specifications :) 00:28:53 (and writing, for that matter!) 00:30:36 how do I funcall/apply a functions from a list? I used read to collect them into a list, but throws an exception :| 00:31:09 apply throws an exception 00:31:19 Pete_R: you can generally use funcall or apply. what's the code look like? 00:31:20 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:31:27 Pete_R: paste.lisp.org/new/lisp is a good place to share 00:32:07 Pete_R: with apply, the last arg must be a list 00:33:03 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 00:33:04 Pete_R: (mapcar #'funcall list-of-funs) for example 00:33:34 are they actually functions or did you quote them before they got a chance to become functions? 00:33:49 '(#'car #'cdr) is not a list of functions 00:35:49 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:36:08 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A102B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:37:04 the problem was my lack of attention. Having a list of forms I used apply on that list, not on every form in particular 00:38:03 it happens when you are a noob lisp programmer :)) 00:38:32 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 00:40:45 Pete_R: it happens even after a decade, and not just lisp :) 00:42:02 indeed 00:42:04 Shamwow: I know :) I'm just being foolish :) 00:42:44 btw, is there a way to build an executable from a lisp program? 00:43:22 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:43:23 write a shell script that launches the lisp environment with a specific startup function 00:43:39 (pretty much what you'd do with Java) 00:44:30 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 00:45:08 Pete_R: I put the following at the top of a lisp file and made it executable: 00:45:10 #| 00:45:11 exec sbcl --noinform --load $0 --end-toplevel-options "$@" 00:45:11 |# 00:45:20 (if running sbcl) 00:45:38 Or there's always something like save-lisp-and-die :executable t 00:46:21 Shamwow: now please explain what those $ mean? :) 00:46:42 they're shell speak 00:46:52 Pete_R: I'm sad to say that I have no idea what they mean, but they work for me :) 00:47:06 I just found it in someone else's scripts 00:47:14 $0 is the command and $@ is all args 00:47:31 Shamwow: (rofl) 00:47:35 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B425.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:47:50 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-31-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:27 rahul: can you give me a link to more details on this please? 00:48:28 Pete_R: sometimes I don't ask questions :) Now I just have the repl open at all times in my slime session and don't really need the shell scripts as much 00:48:43 Pete_R: any manual on bourne shell scripting 00:49:09 rahul: thanks :) 00:49:36 soon enough you'll grow out of the "need to make a single-file executable" phase 00:50:21 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@99.13.242.166] has quit [] 00:50:41 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 00:50:54 Shamwow: I don't either. But my college proffesor is verry into "a single-file executable" :) 00:51:08 that explains it! 00:51:15 :) 00:51:47 he must not use a unix machine 00:51:48 If it would be my choise i would deploy the script on a web-server :) 00:51:55 probably not a windows box either :P 00:52:34 actually he uses ubuntu :P 00:52:47 so give it to him as a .deb 00:54:21 nice idea :) 00:54:59 i'll google this when the project comes into the final stage 00:55:44 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h138n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 00:57:58 -!- clog_ [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:58:25 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 01:00:29 -!- Osaka [n=yuki@fl-71-3-70-98.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has quit ["leaving"] 01:00:45 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 01:02:47 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:02:48 *Xach* has been making sbcl binary apps more and more lately 01:03:01 the latest one is the google calendar / twitter / planet lisp integration deal 01:06:29 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-27-143.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:08:56 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-59.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 01:09:43 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 01:10:12 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-74.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 01:12:56 -!- Raptelan [n=Raptelan@99-138-48-236.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 01:14:17 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-31-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 01:15:31 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:15:44 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:16:20 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 01:21:55 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:14 -!- Shamwow [n=eshamay@richmondlab-cl7.uoregon.edu] has left #lisp 01:23:41 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:26:34 bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:35 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 01:35:22 emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:41 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-54-192.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 01:41:45 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:59 ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-185-155.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 01:43:46 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@46-247.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:48:07 -!- lispbeginner [n=lispbegi@62.139.82.199] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:53:38 isabellf [n=isabellf@bas2-montreal31-1242480554.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:53:56 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:57:40 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:59:00 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 01:59:02 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-41-152.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 02:00:01 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Success] 02:02:25 Axioplase [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 02:03:09 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:34 clog_ [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 02:03:38 minion: logs 02:03:38 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 02:08:23 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-31-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:51 <_3b> functions should have already been minimally compiled by the time they are inlined, shouldn't they? 02:09:27 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 02:09:56 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:11:02 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 02:11:40 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:52 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:19:01 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 02:20:35 emacspha` [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:20 -!- isabellf [n=isabellf@bas2-montreal31-1242480554.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:22:49 -!- Pete_R [n=quassel@78.97.162.190] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:26:55 -!- emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:27:11 -!- emacspha` [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:28:17 -!- nyquist [n=quassel@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:32:04 -!- crink [n=crink@unaffiliated/crink] has left #lisp 02:39:04 gigamonkey: Productive writing day for you! 02:39:05 sellout, memo from gigamonkey: If you're NoNoWriMo'ing in Emacs I have some elisp you might like. 02:39:46 I'm using Scrivener, actually, but I'm still interested in your elisp :) 02:41:42 -!- fihi09 [n=user@pool-71-190-74-115.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:42:15 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:48:05 me too 02:51:46 rrice1 [n=rrice@76.211.9.185] has joined #lisp 02:53:42 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Client Quit] 02:53:49 -!- rrice1 [n=rrice@76.211.9.185] has quit [Client Quit] 02:54:14 rrice [n=rrice@76.211.9.185] has joined #lisp 02:58:03 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:58:53 sellout: one moment 02:59:13 minion: paste 02:59:14 paste: lisppaste: lisppaste is an IRC bot that runs under the nickname "lisppaste" and can be used (only for the #lisp IRC channel!) at http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp - or http://paste.lisp.org/ for other destinations 02:59:49 gigamonkey pasted "NaNoWriMo elisp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89865 02:59:54 -!- timchen119 is now known as nasloc__ 03:00:13 I've written 0 words today and it looks like it's going to stay that way. Puts me like 500 words behind the curve, I think. 03:00:42 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 03:01:07 Oh, I'm way behind the curve. And the elisp tells me exactly how much and what I've got to do to catch up. 03:01:08 -!- dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:01:27 "5162 total; 1264 today; 530 to hit 1794/day needed for 25 days left. (Averaging 1032/day so far.) 3173 to get back on track at 8335." 03:02:00 Yeah, that's nice. 03:02:16 You wrote a ton today, though, right? 03:02:34 dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:47 Well, 1,264 so far. I'm shooting for 2,000 before I go to bed. 03:02:55 Today I got a friend to make me a book cover image. That was my only accomplishment. 03:03:26 Oh, ok. I just saw that you jumped from like 1k to 4k (or something) on the site. 03:03:27 Basically I hit the goal day 1. Blanked on day 2 other than outlining my plot. And started over on day 3 with only a little bit salvaged from day 1. 03:03:37 Heh :) 03:03:53 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 03:03:59 I hope I don't have to start over. Still need to do some serious outlining. 03:09:32 Okay. I've got to sign off here and concentrate on writing. Later. 03:11:02 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["NaNoWriMo beckons."] 03:11:45 Osaka [n=yuki@fl-71-3-71-218.dyn.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:23 -!- tsuru` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:13:12 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 03:14:10 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:57 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-45-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 03:16:58 fihi09 [n=user@pool-71-190-74-115.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:49 jfm3 [n=user@130.sub-75-195-11.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 03:19:58 Attention lisperati: The phosphoConf 2010 Call For Papers is out! http://jfm3-repl.blogspot.com/2009/11/call-for-papers-phosphoconf-2010.html. Vote it up on reddit in r/programming and r/lisp to make PC2010 the best (first) PC ever! 03:21:24 -!- poet [n=poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:21:40 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-200-134-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:22:06 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-44-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 03:22:21 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:24:20 -!- dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:24:48 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:27:19 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-45-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:31:30 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 03:31:32 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/session] has joined #lisp 03:32:51 a little late, innit? 03:34:02 ssh. 03:34:16 Papers are due by 1/12! 8) 03:35:54 Besides, maybe 'a little late' is popularizing. 03:42:10 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:22 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-31-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:49:25 envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 03:49:55 ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.122] has joined #lisp 04:03:03 tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:15 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.21.49] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:05:28 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@CPE004005ca19db-CM000f211fd04a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:26:12 Intertricity [i=Raz@c-66-176-186-87.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:16 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:26:24 Any of you heard of a type of ai called NEAT? 04:28:38 Intertricity: I think I did some reading on "neat" vs "messy" AI, but I can't remember right now 04:28:42 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 04:29:06 ah, got it 04:29:10 Intertricity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neats_vs._scruffies 04:29:21 p_l, this one? -> http://nn.cs.utexas.edu/search.php?q=NEAT#pubs_list%23pubs_list 04:30:18 Intertricity: ah, some fancy name for an AI package, it seems 04:30:50 so it's not a "type of AI" 04:31:32 ahh ok 04:31:35 NEAT is "just" an AI package for training neural networks for crash detection&prevention 04:32:15 Ah, weird. I was proposing to start reading Modern AI and a friend of mine was telling me to read these papers 04:32:21 while "Neats vs. Scruffies" is a well known argument in AI :) 04:32:27 -!- jfm3 [n=user@130.sub-75-195-11.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:32:38 Yeah I think I've heard of it before 04:33:17 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@188-23-185-155.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:33:44 old-style AI was mostly "Neat", later there was a strong shift to "scruffy" (for example, Google Translate started as completely "scruffy" system) 04:34:30 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-31-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:54 -!- tinker [n=timmy@thbh-ip-vsat-2-p254.vsat.telkom-ipnet.co.za] has left #lisp 04:35:33 I think scruffy may be the way to go 04:37:08 Intertricity: combination of both of them probably is 04:37:56 for example, Eurisko was quite successful system in its domain, despite being very "neat" 04:38:12 Eurisko? 04:38:34 actually, if I believed certain people, there's an AI running rampant hacking into Cisco routers and doing nothing, just optimizing towards its own survival... 04:39:12 that sounds pretty cool :P 04:39:33 well, Eurisko does bring the "scruffy" stuff in, but afaik it's definitely not like current day statistical models 04:39:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurisko 04:39:43 -!- roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 04:40:29 Eurisko is a very good example of genetic programming 04:41:26 spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-f58314e67d4237da] has joined #lisp 04:41:36 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-b4369a74460e8958] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:41:39 Intertricity: btw, if said AI exists (the hack-into-routers one)... I was told that the key to control it had expired 4 years ago and there's no way to push a new key :D 04:42:27 egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has joined #lisp 04:42:57 XD 04:43:21 and Eurisko already proven to be susceptible to developing cancer 04:45:14 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:55:20 lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-237-050.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:41 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 04:58:24 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 04:59:39 fedel [n=felipe@189-29-241-32-nd.cpe.vivax.com.br] has joined #lisp 05:00:01 Hi everybody. 05:00:08 jlpeters [n=james@42.sub-70-193-56.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 05:00:52 -!- RustyWheeler [n=kliese@tecoma.eait.uq.edu.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:01:42 RustyWheeler [n=kliese@campsis.eait.uq.edu.au] has joined #lisp 05:01:46 I studied Lisp in the university and now I have to do a homework about the utilities of lisp and prolog. Could you tell me sites or utlities of these languages... 05:02:02 ? 05:02:43 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp093.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:02:44 I have to implement an aplication using these languages 05:02:52 lisp is a programming language it can be used to make software, prolog is the same but a little more specialised 05:03:30 Guthur, could you give examples? 05:03:35 pleas 05:04:32 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:04:40 check www.cliki.net doe some lisp projects 05:04:46 mostly libs i suppose 05:05:35 http://www.lissys.demon.co.uk/Piano5.html 05:05:38 thats lisp 05:05:48 you can make anything you want with it really 05:06:25 -!- jlpeters [n=james@42.sub-70-193-56.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:07:01 prolog is more specialised, but google can be your friend 05:07:37 -!- sg [i=3e164621@gateway/web/freenode/x-4ae916aa301a7132] has quit ["Page closed"] 05:08:56 thanks Guthur 05:09:05 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:09:51 benny [n=benny@i577A102B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:11:25 -!- lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-210-019.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:11:36 redblue [i=star@ppp027.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:12:35 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 05:12:59 Guthur, a nicer URL for piano is just http://piano.aero :) 05:21:23 adlai google wasn't being my friend 05:22:55 -!- Intertricity [i=Raz@c-66-176-186-87.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:23:05 Intertricity [i=Raz@c-66-176-186-87.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:57 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@CPE004005ca19db-CM000f211fd04a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:25:10 dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:23 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@CPE004005ca19db-CM000f211fd04a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:27:06 fedel: Also, Common Lisp tends to attrack web apps/web services lately... 05:27:40 p_l attack or attract 05:27:56 hehe 05:28:00 Guthur: both 05:28:09 p_l Do u have an example? 05:28:43 there is paul grahams thing that he sold to yahoo 05:28:48 most lispers here that code in Lisp for living tend to use Web for interface :) 05:28:51 PG is old story 05:28:57 thats ancient 05:29:02 p_l ya 05:29:21 -!- ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.122] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:29:22 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:30:18 fedel: for example, drewc is doing various projects with UCW/LoL, there's dwim.hu which was developed for a big application for hungarian government, Xach iirc did some stuff on web as well, etc. 05:30:50 fedel: Also, I'm working on a web-based appointment scheduling and reminder system. Boring, yes, but a good learning experience. 05:31:50 fedel: I'm doing research and planning for a startup doing intranet ERP-like system for schools/universities. And if I wasn't so stupid my current app would be in CL as well 05:31:59 erk [n=MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 05:32:35 p_l java? 05:32:37 said ERP system is going to have Web browsers as rather important part of the interface, the rest would be remote IPC 05:32:45 Guthur: Merb 05:33:28 (that is, Ruby + PostgreSQL + Merb + jQuery) 05:33:47 -!- guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:34:08 never heard of merb before tbh 05:35:05 Guthur: it's going to be basis for Rails 3, as current rails development is basically "moving Rails into direction of Merb 2.0". Started out by people dissatified by Rails and its dev team 05:35:39 you could say that Merb is the harder framework, much less "magic" 05:36:03 it has the same functionality, but everything is optional - if you want, you can have the whole app in one file 05:36:08 hehe, never looked into the ruby much 05:36:27 none of that "opinionated software" stuff from Rails (where if you step outside the box things get hr) 05:36:32 s/hr/hard/ 05:36:38 i was using asp.net for a while, then thought if i need web again i'd probably go python 05:37:00 I think I'd go Lisp or Erlang :) 05:38:23 i should try the only lisp web dev sometime 05:39:31 Guthur: the ERP thingy I'm designing next will be a hybrid - quite a lot of mainline UI will be in JS, although I'd like to make a CLIM-powered native client 05:40:59 *p_l* checks for possible dotations 05:41:13 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:43:22 ... wow, I could apply under Seventh Framework. ^_____^ 05:44:06 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-238-179.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 05:53:00 -!- dalkvist [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:56:04 -!- rlarson89 [n=reid85@CPE001cdf73661f-CM001ceacec55e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:56:22 rlarson89 [n=reid85@CPE001cdf73661f-CM001ceacec55e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:57:37 dalkvist [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has joined #lisp 06:05:40 good morning 06:07:05 morning 06:07:13 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:08:55 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-133-147-147.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:11:23 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-133-157-144.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:12:17 nipra [n=nipra@117.195.106.39] has joined #lisp 06:14:04 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 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Regenaxer [n=baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 07:17:30 Regenaxer [n=baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:20:57 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229067091.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:26:50 totaa [n=totaa@62.139.82.199] has joined #lisp 07:27:01 guys what does the "elt" means in LISP 07:27:02 ? 07:27:50 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 07:27:58 totaa: it gets an element from a sequence by its number 07:28:33 totaa: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_elt.htm 07:28:36 madnificent: do you mean that if it's set to 0 it gets the first element in a string? 07:29:16 totaa: it works for any sequence, strings are sequences, so yes 07:29:31 oh thanks a lot madnificent :D 07:29:37 (elt "foobar" 3) -> #\b 07:29:42 totaa: yw 07:29:45 totaa: starting out in CL? 07:29:54 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has left #lisp 07:30:26 yeah 07:30:28 2nd day 07:30:33 ELIZA Project 07:36:54 just google "clhs lispworks elt" 07:37:21 minion: clhs 07:37:22 clhs: To look up a symbol in the HyperSpec, try saying "clhs symbol". For more information on the HyperSpec see http://www.cliki.net/CLHS . 07:38:37 rahul: ah, I wondered how I could make minion tell about it 07:38:44 minion: tell totaa about clhs 07:38:44 totaa: direct your attention towards clhs: To look up a symbol in the HyperSpec, try saying "clhs symbol". For more information on the HyperSpec see http://www.cliki.net/CLHS . 07:38:48 nice :) 07:44:51 -!- guaqua_ is now known as guaqua 07:49:31 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:50 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:51:07 good morning 07:55:38 -!- RustyWheeler [n=kliese@campsis.eait.uq.edu.au] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:57:35 -!- baddog [n=baddog@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:00:17 -!- Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:04:28 -!- Regenaxer [n=baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 08:04:59 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:10:20 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:12:47 -!- envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:14:11 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:16:35 -!- spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-f58314e67d4237da] has left #lisp 08:17:07 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-58b97c3bd1fd7219] has joined #lisp 08:21:12 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:15 -!- Dodek [n=dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit ["leaving"] 08:21:32 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:22:04 Dodek [n=dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 08:35:00 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:35:04 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 08:35:48 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:36:16 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:37:16 Good morning! 08:37:55 good morning to you, too :) 08:38:22 Harag [n=Harag@iburst-41-213-42-198.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:38:35 tcr [n=tcr@88.134.20.86] has joined #lisp 08:38:45 hello 08:39:31 any body know why the submit won't fire on a weblocks formview? 08:39:40 hello spiaggia 08:40:30 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-58b97c3bd1fd7219] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:41:14 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-28e507a55547bba3] has joined #lisp 08:42:00 -!- j0ni_ is now known as j0ni 08:43:47 rm200910 [n=quassel@78-86-87-67.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:43:49 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.51.32] has joined #lisp 08:43:58 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 08:44:11 brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:48:40 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:50:03 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@122-57-20-64.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:51:30 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-28e507a55547bba3] has left #lisp 08:52:08 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-db0beb9ac277ae57] has joined #lisp 08:52:29 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-db0beb9ac277ae57] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:53:21 morphling [n=stefan@89.13.41.151] has joined #lisp 08:53:37 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/session] has joined #lisp 08:53:47 -!- pixel5 [n=pixel@copei.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:54:05 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@222-154-177-37.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:59:47 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 09:01:42 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:01:42 guys do we have a macro in the CL called bindings and no-bindings 09:01:43 ? 09:01:50 what happened with closer-mop, it is suddenly exporting its own defmethod etc? 09:02:10 totaa: search for it in the clhs 09:02:26 if it is there: yes, if it is not: no 09:04:08 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-580a6c46116c55e4] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:04:22 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-399914bba42a3adc] has joined #lisp 09:06:31 I mean when it's written "(defun pat-match (pattern input &optional (bindings no-bindings))" 09:06:49 does it mean that bindings denote pattern and no bindings denote input 09:06:51 am I right? 09:07:20 you can look at defun for that, but it means this: the third argument is optional, if it is not supplied, it will default to the value of no-bindings 09:07:32 demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:13 so my main question if no-bindings is defined in CL or not? 09:08:22 or I have to define a dummy value for it later 09:08:58 totaa: no-bindings is treated as a variable there (so if you haven't given it a value in that context, then yes, you will need to supply a value for it) 09:09:22 you need to read (bindings no-bindings) as one part for the &optional. &optional bindings no-bindings would give you two optional values 09:10:30 ahhhh 09:10:39 Thanks a lot, madnificent 09:10:46 yw totaa 09:11:08 sorry for being boring :).. just interesting 09:11:46 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 09:12:28 good morning 09:12:34 good morning kami- 09:12:38 -!- rlarson89 [n=reid85@CPE001cdf73661f-CM001ceacec55e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:12:41 rlarson89 [n=reid85@CPE001cdf73661f-CM001ceacec55e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 09:14:58 pixel5 [n=pixel@212.60.130.33] has joined #lisp 09:18:03 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:18:05 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:19:04 cxml-stp, one of the many stuff i should have found earlier 09:19:31 the closure product line is really sexy, albeit little understood 09:19:51 and well documented, i must say 09:20:05 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:20:22 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:24 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:20:47 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 09:23:32 levente_meszaros [n=levente_@94.44.8.203] has joined #lisp 09:23:53 the closure brand feels a little worn out. Now even Google calls its JavaScript transformer "Closure". 09:25:17 i wonder when there's closure for the use of closure 09:26:18 -!- frodef [n=frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:26:59 lispm [n=joswig@f054053174.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:27:48 math department wants their closures back! 09:28:34 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:29:10 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:29:39 nipra_ [n=nipra@117.195.98.51] has joined #lisp 09:31:08 G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.98.51] has joined #lisp 09:34:00 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6D885.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 09:34:01 varjag: we'll fight over them! brave lispers stand up and hack 09:34:02 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:34:15 fusss_ [n=chatzill@60.241.1.206] has joined #lisp 09:35:48 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [No route to host] 09:35:57 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 09:36:10 -!- nipra [n=nipra@117.195.106.39] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:36:20 Haplo_ [n=ihatchon@LPuteaux-156-14-10-37.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:36:54 claustrophobic society of america calls for full closure ban 09:36:54 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:38:25 we have to keep the closure producing countries free 09:38:39 war for closures 09:38:48 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:39:00 VN demands information on North-Korea closure plans 09:39:09 the corrupt government of closuristan has to go! 09:41:03 s/VN/UN/ 09:41:13 VN is fine 09:41:18 Virtual Nations 09:41:25 LoL 09:42:55 hjpark [n=user@116.40.135.21] has joined #lisp 09:43:40 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:45:14 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.194.180] has joined #lisp 09:46:46 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:47:13 -!- cow-orker [n=foobar@pogostick.net] has quit ["leaving"] 09:48:21 guys, i once saw a C program that takes a large octet vector and shows how much entropy is in it, among other things 09:48:26 i don't remember how to find it 09:48:30 any ideas? 09:49:01 i mean, like giving me some hints on the theory so i could implement it in lisp and release it 09:49:01 :) 09:50:17 hmm, forgot to google. got it 09:50:19 sorry guys 09:53:06 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.196.35] has joined #lisp 09:57:40 frode [n=frode@80.91.225.95] has joined #lisp 09:59:46 Axius [n=ojof@92.84.23.118] has joined #lisp 10:00:49 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:01:20 weirdo: what is it called? 10:02:12 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:03:02 fusss, "ent" 10:03:07 http://packages.debian.org/sid/ent 10:03:40 -!- fedel [n=felipe@189-29-241-32-nd.cpe.vivax.com.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:05:23 ScriptDevil [i=3b5c57d7@gateway/web/freenode/x-ea7ba88823634395] has joined #lisp 10:05:41 -!- Jabberwock [n=jens@port-9408.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:06:15 that will come handy 10:06:28 In the dead sexy book, http://gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-a-simple-database.html how is the with-open-file's first argument not a function call. I thought lists needed a ' before then when not being called 10:06:56 ScriptDevil: macros circumvent the standard evaluation model 10:07:11 Oh. Ok. :) 10:07:14 mersenne twister seems great 10:07:18 macros can implement new control semantics that choose when and how to evaluate their arguments 10:07:20 at least according to ent(1) 10:07:41 fusss: Thanks 10:08:12 Anyone happen to know what this error might be, while trying to load weblocks-stable with asdf: # is an invalid superclass of # 10:08:18 -!- frode is now known as frodef 10:08:24 macros are like (macro-function '(arguments)) and you can go as crazy as you want 10:08:25 *fusss* is more baffled by the first argument of with-hash-table-iterator 10:09:01 stassats: I get it :) 10:09:55 frodef: there is probably a weblocks component that didn't load correctly or loaded out of order 10:10:16 Holy schmoe, SBCL does not rebind *print-pprint-dispatch* in with-standard-io-syntax 10:10:24 wtf is :overwrite 10:10:28 yeah i know :supersede 10:10:39 overwrite doesn't even trucnate the file? 10:10:57 i'd say unix is less confusing 10:13:17 -!- nipra_ [n=nipra@117.195.98.51] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:14:29 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@32.159.181.38] has joined #lisp 10:15:15 nvoorhies__ [n=nvoorhie@76.216.21.95] has joined #lisp 10:15:28 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:15:28 -!- nvoorhies__ is now known as nvoorhies 10:16:26 -!- G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.98.51] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:17:05 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-399914bba42a3adc] has left #lisp 10:17:26 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/session] has joined #lisp 10:18:02 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-2842adf9fae21ba2] has quit [Client Quit] 10:18:07 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ab94ec2568223ef3] has joined #lisp 10:18:11 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:20:07 this is so confusing. ls(1) uses kilo/mega-*binary* quantities 10:20:14 while K stands for kilobytes... 10:20:37 weirdo: harddisk manufacturers do so too, perhaps that's the reason 10:21:48 qebab [i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 10:22:19 -!- rm200910 [n=quassel@78-86-87-67.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:23:09 -!- spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:23:35 too bad i don't have a coin-flipping automaton 10:23:40 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@32.159.181.38] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:23:51 well, coins and dice are not-very random 10:24:21 spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 10:26:17 weirdo: Perl7 has it :) Truly random :P 10:27:20 perl will always, and i say, always, use unix libc RNG 10:27:40 s/RNG/PRNG 10:29:55 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:30:50 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 10:38:24 truly random semantics? 10:38:46 tcr, he was sarcasting on at least two levels 10:38:51 s/ing/ic 10:39:24 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:39:37 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:41:21 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 10:43:05 Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 10:44:59 rm200910 [n=quassel@78-86-87-67.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:49:09 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:49:41 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp027.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:50:09 -!- lispm [n=joswig@f054053174.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:54:23 lispm [n=joswig@f054052141.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:54:55 billitch [n=billitch@82.67.155.88] has joined #lisp 10:55:22 mvillene1ve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:56:24 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:56:34 -!- mvillene1ve is now known as mvilleneuve 11:02:28 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:02:59 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.84.23.118] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:06:37 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@76.216.21.95] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:13:50 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 11:14:11 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:18:51 Why is (remove-if-not #'evenp '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10)) recommended by the book when just 'evenp would do? 11:19:37 #' explicitly names a function, ' just a symbol 11:19:50 I find #' clearer when what is quoted is really a function. 11:20:01 ScriptDevil, it's primarily an efficiency/style issue 11:20:02 ScriptDevil: there are some useful circumstances where a symbol won't designate the right function. 11:20:07 Ok. So it is like syntactic 11:20:13 *sugar 11:20:16 not entirely 11:20:31 ScriptDevil: for example, when referring to a lexically-defined function created with flet or labels. 11:20:31 when you want a local function (ie one bound with FLET or LABELS) you need to use #' 11:20:43 delYsid: it's hard to feed remove-if-not not really a function 11:21:15 stassats: I know, I still use #' whenever I know that what I am passing is a function, its a habit I guess 11:21:56 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ab94ec2568223ef3] has left #lisp 11:24:41 Joreji [n=thomas@46-247.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:25:19 ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 11:26:03 anyone ever made a captcha that filters not just software, but idiots? even persistent idiots? 11:26:26 Hmmm. Domain specific captchas :P 11:27:36 Something like a captcha showing the fork bomb and asking the users to type the output. The guy who leaves it blank knows not to run it and find the output. :P 11:29:19 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit [Client Quit] 11:30:23 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:31:05 tsuru` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:13 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:34:46 isabellf [n=isabellf@bas2-montreal31-1167887493.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:34:49 ziga` [n=user@89.142.51.4] has joined #lisp 11:36:07 mishoo_ [n=mishoo@79.112.51.32] has joined #lisp 11:36:28 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.51.32] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:38:20 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 11:39:04 -!- isabellf [n=isabellf@bas2-montreal31-1167887493.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 11:39:19 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:23 #' vs. ' is also about when the name-to-function mapping is resolved. 11:43:29 (..not very interesting in the remove-if-not example, though.) 11:44:11 -!- totaa [n=totaa@62.139.82.199] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:45:47 -!- ScriptDevil [i=3b5c57d7@gateway/web/freenode/x-ea7ba88823634395] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 11:47:12 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:52:33 -!- mishoo_ [n=mishoo@79.112.51.32] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:54:25 *Adlai* is getting a SLIME error again 11:55:05 it happens at the REPL, looks like it's a problem with the minibuffer arglist thingy 11:59:06 Adlai pasted "SLIME/Eldoc Error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89884 11:59:58 sellout [n=greg@c-66-31-40-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:25 where's the CLX's mailing list?? 12:02:53 and why is the last released version 0.7.3 12:03:02 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:04:43 I would like to add unicode keysyms 12:04:51 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 12:04:52 to CLX's main branch 12:05:00 I have seen your message 12:05:56 aha ok 12:06:06 -!- rm200910 [n=quassel@78-86-87-67.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:06:30 do unicode keysyms fit into CLX? it seems to work here on my mac os x just fine 12:06:41 -!- b3nt_pin [n=brent@stjhnf0140w-142162085172.pppoe-dynamic.nl.aliant.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:06:50 I don't know about other X servers 12:07:32 dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:11 mishoo_ [n=mishoo@79.112.51.32] has joined #lisp 12:09:18 dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:09:58 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:12:43 c|mell [n=cmell@77.92.233.102] has joined #lisp 12:14:47 nipra [n=nipra@117.195.98.51] has joined #lisp 12:15:39 Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 12:21:22 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:17 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:04 -!- skeptomai|away [n=nnnnnnnn@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Getting off stoned server - dircproxy 1.2.0"] 12:23:29 Geralt [n=Geralt@vpn-cl-165-86.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 12:23:41 skeptomai|away [n=nnnnnnnn@71.227.156.96] has joined #lisp 12:24:36 Odin- [n=sbkhh@130.208.131.159] has joined #lisp 12:26:30 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:27:29 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 12:29:10 -!- vsync [n=vsync@BLISTER.QUADIUM.NET] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:29:22 vsync [n=vsync@69.55.236.109] has joined #lisp 12:33:36 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:33:43 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60.241.1.206] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 12:34:42 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 12:34:43 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@77.92.233.102] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:34:44 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:34:54 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 12:35:27 a-s` [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 12:43:12 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:48:04 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 12:49:47 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [No route to host] 12:49:50 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 12:51:07 -!- kuwabara [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:51:11 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 12:52:13 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@130.208.131.159] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:53:18 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:56:16 Jabberwockey [n=jens@193.174.12.194] has joined #lisp 12:59:32 Does anyone happen to know typical (software) applications in human resource management? 13:00:47 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81.226.253.54] has joined #lisp 13:03:40 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:48 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 13:05:13 excel 13:08:25 -!- nipra [n=nipra@117.195.98.51] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:09:10 tcr, did you see my latest SLIME bug? 13:09:23 http://paste.lisp.org/display/89884 13:10:19 -!- anekos [n=anekos@61.197.117.56] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:10:24 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:11:18 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 13:11:21 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 13:11:32 pkhuong, ping? 13:11:56 anekos [n=anekos@pl1218.nas924.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:12:23 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 13:12:39 -!- OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@122-57-20-64.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:13:09 tcr: excel, word, outlook, powerpoint 13:13:25 Anyone know the URL to pkhuong's blog? 13:13:38 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 13:13:39 I've seen mysql used. Raw. 13:13:46 I found it, nevermind. 13:13:57 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Nantes-109-1-72.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:14:15 jafet: that's some seriously educated HR people 13:15:35 They abstract common patterns into PHP scripts 13:15:55 I'm not sure they qualify as HR at that point 13:16:01 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:33 davazp [n=user@79.153.148.56] has joined #lisp 13:18:21 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:33 -!- tsuru` is now known as tsuru 13:21:30 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:23:30 nipra [n=nipra@117.195.97.151] has joined #lisp 13:24:07 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 13:24:49 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 13:26:55 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:29:06 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:29:22 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:29:52 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:53 Is it possible to find out the arguments of a function call frame in LDB? 13:31:45 monsier [n=monsier@122.24.156.225] has joined #lisp 13:32:54 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 13:34:40 tcr: there's always the "attach gdb and inspect memory" approach 13:35:21 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 13:35:51 -!- monsier [n=monsier@122.24.156.225] has quit ["Leaving..."] 13:36:09 kuwabara [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has joined #lisp 13:37:30 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 13:38:00 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:38:34 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.68.73] has joined #lisp 13:39:30 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:11 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:45:01 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:45:28 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:49:35 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 13:49:57 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 13:52:52 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:53:19 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Nantes-109-1-72.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:54:13 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 13:54:27 ikki [n=ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 13:54:27 asn [n=110@gentoo/developer/asn] has joined #lisp 13:56:38 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.21.49] has joined #lisp 13:58:47 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:59:23 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 14:01:45 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:03 -!- tcr [n=tcr@88.134.20.86] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:08:16 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 14:09:26 MrTree [n=marc@ip-88-153-48-155.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:18 hi, everyone. how can i pretty print an s-exp? i'm not familiar with lisp, i just need to pretty print a single, very long s-exp. the documentation for pprint did not really help. 14:14:04 MrTree: (pprint sexp) is one way 14:14:15 MrTree: what did you want it to do that it didn't do? 14:14:56 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 14:15:17 tcr [n=tcr@88-134-20-86-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:15:20 -!- ziga` [n=user@89.142.51.4] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:17:52 benny` [n=benny@i577A03D7.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:17:59 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:18:25 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A102B.versanet.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:18:27 -!- benny` is now known as benny 14:18:48 Xach, I tried that, but it just seemed to loop forever. Let me check again... 14:19:23 -!- qed [i=tao@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-5998847a7ce1335e] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:21:19 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:28 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.68.73] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:23:20 tcr: SAP, bloody SAP + MS Office with lots of powerpoint slides and excel worksheets 14:24:35 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.68.73] has joined #lisp 14:26:34 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 14:27:37 -!- morphling [n=stefan@89.13.41.151] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:30:00 tcr: also, another name for HR depts: paperwork generators 14:30:55 -!- Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:31:29 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 14:34:50 -!- salva [n=kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:37:44 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 14:39:33 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81.226.253.54] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:44:49 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:45:29 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:47:31 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@46-247.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:48:54 Xof: is the gdb bit documented somewhere? 14:49:51 I get into ldb during warm init in note-undefined-reference, and I want to find out what's the function's name that is undefined 14:50:35 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@81.84.176.217] has joined #lisp 14:50:47 tcr: you could insert a /show (and compile with sb-show) to print the reference. 14:52:04 rrice [n=rrice@adsl-69-221-161-215.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:39 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-168-237-105.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:53:11 bah yet another build 14:53:42 Writing more advanced sequence functions, it's often that you want to incrementally create the result sequence 14:54:11 I wonder if it's a good idea to provide a chunked-sequence which wraps over a sequence and provides a sequence-push-extend 14:54:26 internally it maintains a list of sequences 14:54:28 ok. I'm a fan of vectors everywhere and convert at the very end. 14:54:31 like dynamic arrays 14:54:31 tcr: "think very hard" works for me 14:54:40 along with "actually read the diff" 14:54:59 I guess I have had about 10 more years of reading sbcl diffs 14:55:07 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 14:55:39 tcr: think hard is a good complement to yet another build, especially given the physical portability of the approach ;) 14:56:04 My mind is busy with other stuff though :) so another build can just run in the background 14:56:29 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:58:10 s0ber [n=s0ber@220-136-231-44.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:14 there are two approaches: first allocate (probably too large) result storage, then shrink that in the end; loop twice through the passed sequence, and calculate exact storage size first 14:58:58 perhaps ideally both should be done, and which is used should be based on (> speed space) 14:59:34 the chunked-sequence and sequence-push-extend would be a kind of middle way 14:59:47 kerc [n=riise@84.49.151.31] has joined #lisp 15:00:38 tcr: sparse sequences? 15:01:22 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.212.86] has joined #lisp 15:01:26 sparse? no it would be implemented the same way "dynamic arrays" (or "array lists") are implemented 15:01:50 tcr: I doubt that iterating twice through the input ever makes sense, when you can instead keep a list of exponentially growing vectors. 15:02:21 yeah that's what "chunked-sequence" wrapper would do 15:02:25 Xof or froydnj: any feelings on rounding up the size of code objects to 64 bytes in order to be able to guarantee that much alignment? 15:02:37 I'm fine with it 15:02:43 I am not scared by core size 15:03:21 tcr: right. Plus, if you keep the list in a vector instead, you get O(1) random access (: 15:03:25 heh 15:03:31 pkhuong: and implicitly iterating twice is quite convenient (first call position-if/count-if on the sequence, then do your frobbage) 15:04:21 pkhuong: so the entry point always starts on a 64-byte boundary? 15:05:22 froydnj: that would be nice, but at least, the assembly itself would start on a 64 byte boundary which would let us align internal branch targets to 64 bytes. 15:05:35 pkhuong: why do you need O(1) random access to the chunks? You only have to iterate over all the chunks in the end, and REPLACE them into the exactly-sized result sequence 15:06:16 pkhuong: all internal branch targets? please, no 15:06:31 froydnj: no, but those that we currently align to 16 bytes (loops). 15:06:51 FWIW, I think it makes sense for sequence-iterator protocol to distinguish between sequential-access-sequences and random-access-sequences 15:06:54 64-byte alignment strikes me as overkill 15:07:12 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-41-152.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:07:16 ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-0-62.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:07:55 I understand that it might help on extremely hot loops...but I really doubt the majority of sbcl users are writing such loops or even care. 15:07:55 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 15:08:00 froydnj: it would also let us reduce the amount of padding before the unboxed constants segment. 15:08:36 tcr: if you have a pipeline of such sequence operations, except for a few random accesses, it makes sense to stick to the chunked representation. 15:08:42 eh? how so? 15:09:35 (I'm also not convinced that the unboxed constants padding is really that useful...error traps take up way more non-instruction space in a typical function than unboxed constants do) 15:09:36 froydnj: when speed > space, I insert 64 bytes of padding to make sure that the data falls in another cache line. I could just request 64 byte alignment instead. 15:09:54 yeah, I'd like to move error traps there too. 15:11:01 well, a number of errors traps get assembled *elsewhere*...but a lot just get stuck inline 15:11:23 *elsewhere* is suboptimal though, because we also put regularly executed code there too. 15:11:28 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:11:49 we do? like what? 15:11:53 gz__ [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:33 mega1's recursion trampolines, mostly. 15:13:00 ah. I hadn't really noticed 15:14:21 Ok, I tried to go back to 1.0.9 to see whether my ioctl trouble persists. Initial attempt looks like it works, but we'll see. 15:15:03 they should disappear some time in 2010 anyway (by inserting the POP [rbp-...] inline and jumping across if needed). 15:15:50 Reaver [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:17:20 tcr pasted "Assignment prevents use of assertion" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89895 15:17:34 Can anyone explain that to me and the consequences? 15:18:00 can anybody tell me why clhs is non-free? it's representation could have been much better.. 15:18:05 tcr annotated #89895 "emittage" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89895#1 15:18:16 -!- Reaver [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has quit [Client Quit] 15:18:29 tcr: the declaim gives the type of the argument, but not of the variable. So you've guaranteed that the first argument to foo is a fixnum, but said nothing about any subsequent assignment. 15:18:29 minion: thwap to udzinari 15:18:29 udzinari: have a look at thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 15:18:59 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:19:04 Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 15:19:09 pkhuong: Bah this kind of makes wicked sense 15:20:19 pkhuong: sounds like you have a roadmap! 15:21:07 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 15:21:11 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@220-136-231-44.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:21:13 it might be fun to actually talk about all the things we would like to happen 15:21:13 How wonderful. If I explicitly declare X to be fixnum, sbcl seems to emit one type check but two error traps 15:21:45 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:22:40 Xof: I'm looking at youth hostels and all (: 15:23:06 confirmed sbcl10 attendance: now into double figures! 15:23:21 s0ber [n=s0ber@114-45-225-73.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:52 woohoo! 15:24:21 fe[nl]ix: thanks for pointing that out! stupid spelling errors! was funny.. but what about the actual question? :) 15:25:09 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 15:25:11 it is non-free because it is derived from a document whose authors do not grant modification and redistribution rights 15:25:13 duh 15:26:36 rstandy [n=rastandy@93.144.98.96] has joined #lisp 15:27:37 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:39 incidentally, I have no idea what a recursion trampoline is 15:29:27 Xof: I suppose something like a loop repeatedly calling a function "what to do next" where every function returns either a flag "I'm done" and values, or a flag "please chain into this" and what to do next. 15:29:53 I meant in the context of stuff which gets placed in the *elsewhere* segment 15:30:00 you may be right that that's what it's doing 15:30:03 so you can implement proper tail-calls on top of a platform that doesn't provide them but can encode higher-order functions 15:30:05 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:31:04 Xof: What one is supposed to do then, if he wants to put cl documentation on the web in wiki-like fashion for example? 15:31:27 there's this thing called the hyperlink 15:31:30 you may have heard of it? 15:33:41 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.212.86] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:34:39 Xof: they're tiny POP/JMP sequences that mega1 inserted to make the local function calling convention sane. 15:34:46 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:35:07 ah, ok 15:35:48 wow, how nice of you to point that out!? but maybe he doesn't want to direct people to lispworks all the time? for example to do stuff like they do on with php documentation http://uk2.php.net/preg_match (usefull comments in the bottom, e.g: implementation specific notes in lisp case). 15:36:07 WARNING WARNING 15:36:07 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:36:30 felideon [n=felideon@74.186.235.232] has joined #lisp 15:36:44 udzinari: It would be nice, but there's no legal way to do it. 15:37:38 maus [n=maus@222.253.104.84] has joined #lisp 15:37:43 I'm sorry the world isn't how you want it to be; I'm telling you about how the world is. 15:37:44 udzinari: Annotable specifications can be nice, but the php documentation is not really a case to cite 15:38:19 sellout: sure there is. Take the original version of the spec, and write your own generator/interpreter 15:38:53 seangrove [n=user@98.248.37.94] has joined #lisp 15:39:52 dlowe1: I thought the original version of the spec was non-free also. Or by interpreter, do you mean "in your own words"? 15:40:47 there is no formal copyright licence anywhere that anyone has been able to find on the final draft source files 15:40:52 the code snippets in php documentation are one of the most common origins of security problems in web software 15:41:05 that doesn't stop people from distributing it, but it does stop debian from considering it `free' 15:43:01 If the document is copyrighted, sans a license you cannot redistribute it 15:43:17 froydnj: any plans to support RSA in ironclad? 15:43:36 udzinari: use frames 15:43:43 luis: the sketches of support are there (I think). what else do you need? 15:44:02 Jafet: you can if you have reason to believe that the rights holder(s) will not exercise their rights 15:44:05 I was able to use ironclad's rsa in the not-super-distant past for something-or-other. 15:44:30 Xof, well, sure 15:44:49 -!- seangrove [n=user@98.248.37.94] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:44:49 I mention that becuase empirically that seems to be the case for the final draft ansi cl standard 15:45:01 froydnj: oh, the docs say the support is raw, what exactly does that mean? 15:45:06 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:29 So, finding this out requires some looking into legal issues.. or some ugly workaround.. like the one you mention fe[nl]ix.. 15:46:02 Do you know about somebody who has done this before? 15:46:12 udzinari: someone tried to look into the legal issues and gave up 15:46:24 hjpark` [n=user@116.40.135.21] has joined #lisp 15:46:35 -!- a-s` [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:46:35 luis: it means you get the basic msg^e mod m functionality...no fancy signature packing/unpacking, etc. etc. 15:47:04 Xof: actually re any roadmap, the most important constraints is probably that I'm much more likely to have something publishable working on a specialised compiler from scratch. 15:47:14 tcr: I will try to find in logs then, thank you. or was it discussed somewhere else? 15:47:23 luis: it seems like there's a lot of different ways to use (complicate?) rsa, and I haven't included any such things in ironclad. very basic. 15:47:51 udzinari: I think it was on comp.lang.lisp and cl-gardeners; the guy called himself "C Y K" or something like that 15:48:24 Sadly, 1.0.9 just exhibited same ioctl issue. 15:48:58 froydnj: ok, thanks. 15:49:01 tcr: thank you 15:49:12 luis: what are you using it for? 15:49:13 froydnj: would this kind of stuff (X.509 I'm assuming) be difficult to do given a DER implementation, like cl-net-snmp probably has? 15:49:33 pkhuong: that makes me slightly sad 15:49:49 froydnj: some co-workers are considering using it for some internal project. 15:50:10 no copyright message means "no right to copy" 15:50:15 lichtblau: it would be less difficult than it is now if major chunks of DER are already done in a sane fashion, yes 15:50:22 IANAL though 15:50:24 luis: oh, cool. 15:51:18 luis: well, let me know if I can help 15:51:38 Xof: I'm in large-scale/rich combinatorial optimisation. Program compilers offer a ton of nice applications, but all the heavy framework in a real compiler (for a usable general-purpose language) often gets in the way. 15:51:39 -!- coyo[school] is now known as bandu 15:51:40 Is it just me, or sbcl 1.0.9 really builds faster than latest ones? 15:51:53 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 15:52:02 deepfire: sounds likely, especially if you build it with a later version. 15:52:13 deepfire: I think you underestimate the pickiness of the audience considering lisp "back in the day" (re. sbcl-devel discussion of tree shakers) 15:52:48 -!- hjpark [n=user@116.40.135.21] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 15:52:57 pkhuong: I can sympathise with that 15:54:20 froydnj, the idea was that the selection of end users was less diverse in the past, and with specificity come some willingness to compromise. 15:54:32 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.194.180] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 15:54:56 But this is vague reasoning, of course. 15:54:59 remind me why we want end-users? 15:55:07 lol 15:55:09 Xof: MORE BUG REPORTS 15:55:23 froydnj: isn't that my point? 15:55:34 Xof: so we can pretend this isn't all academic. 15:56:13 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 15:56:49 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest26391 15:56:56 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:40 yes, well 15:57:56 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 15:58:21 the non-academic nature of my many years of sbcl participation has not made me a millionaire 15:58:30 I'm trying, I'm trying. 15:58:30 Xach is clearly not entrepreneurial enough 15:58:36 :-) 15:58:43 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:20 now that i can rap with the kids on "twitter" i will add a lot of value and revenuization 15:59:23 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:00:14 I think (hope) the scholarship committees liked the relation with industry and lay people ;) 16:01:08 -!- Guest26391 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 16:01:25 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:07:59 oh noes freenode restarting servers due to memory leaks 16:08:25 -!- trittweiler [n=tcr@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:25 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:25 -!- ineiros [n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:25 -!- metric [n=metric@209-20-86-67.slicehost.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:25 -!- vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:25 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:25 -!- cpt_nemo [i=cpt_nemo@saga.ftbfs.de] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:25 -!- pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:26 pragma_ [n=pragma@blackshell.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:27 metric [n=metric@209-20-86-67.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:28 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 16:08:34 mikezor [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:08:35 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:08:35 ineiros [n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 16:08:36 -!- zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:36 trittweiler [n=tcr@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:39 vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:46 ...erlang. 16:08:47 zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 16:08:49 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:49 -!- johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:49 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:49 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@ram94-7-82-232-191-53.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:49 -!- Caelum [n=rkitover@caelum.cachemiss.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:49 -!- qidush [n=qidush@c83-252-27-42.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:08:50 qidush_ [n=qidush@c83-252-27-42.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:08:51 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@ram94-7-82-232-191-53.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:53 johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 16:08:55 cpt_nemo [i=cpt_nemo@saga.ftbfs.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:55 -!- pragma_ is now known as Guest11613 16:08:58 Caelum [n=rkitover@caelum.cachemiss.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:08 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:09:08 -!- michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:09:08 -!- ecraven [n=nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:09:08 -!- luis [n=user@r42.eu] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:09:08 -!- mle [n=emily@kuu.accela.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:09:08 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:09:10 luis` [n=user@r42.eu] has joined #lisp 16:09:12 michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has joined #lisp 16:09:13 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:24 drgnvale [n=acristin@209.16.73.144] has joined #lisp 16:09:24 mle [n=emily@kuu.accela.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:32 -!- drgnvale [n=acristin@209.16.73.144] has left #lisp 16:09:39 froydnj: thanks. I think they're still evaluating various solutions at this point. I don't think anything uses OSS around here yet, I'll try to lobby. :) 16:09:44 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 16:10:05 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 16:11:04 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@220-253-2-134.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 16:11:27 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 16:14:47 demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-197-123.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:50 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:19:52 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:50 starek [n=digg@unaffiliated/romani] has joined #lisp 16:24:37 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-68-51-134-164.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:32 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:25:45 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:01 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:27:30 *stassats* curses cl.net's cvs 16:28:35 I can feel your pain. 16:28:39 stassats: not cvs in general? 16:28:53 no it's really fucking slow on cl.net 16:29:06 but cvs is already really fucking slow :( 16:29:21 (of course it's sucky that it needs to do a server request to compute diffs) 16:31:54 *Adlai* hugs his git 16:32:34 -!- luis` is now known as luis 16:33:36 -!- mishoo_ [n=mishoo@79.112.51.32] has quit ["be back later"] 16:34:32 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:34:50 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:06 milanj [n=milan@77.46.202.72] has joined #lisp 16:36:01 redblue [i=star@ppp126.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:37:47 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 16:38:16 -!- asn [n=110@gentoo/developer/asn] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:41:04 -!- demmeln [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-197-123.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:42:39 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-31-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:45:51 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 16:46:29 Spaija [n=markko@nat/cisco/x-f2750970dae5cb9f] has joined #lisp 16:46:55 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-238-179.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:06 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.212.86] has joined #lisp 16:50:08 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Client Quit] 16:50:08 -!- dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:50:43 dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:48 -!- Spaija [n=markko@nat/cisco/x-f2750970dae5cb9f] has left #lisp 16:53:53 zeroish [n=zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 16:53:56 Shamiq [n=Adium@165.124.97.31] has joined #lisp 16:54:01 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:43 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.206.244] has joined #lisp 16:59:55 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 17:01:22 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.212.86] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:02:16 s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-168-236-56.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:50 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:04:02 I'm so totally puzzled by this wam init error 17:05:15 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:07:57 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:08:57 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 17:10:02 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has left #lisp 17:10:29 gz___ [n=gz@209.6.40.245] has joined #lisp 17:12:56 nha [n=prefect@31-174.4-85.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:13:46 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 17:15:27 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@114-45-225-73.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:17:20 Adlai: next project: git implementation in CL? :P 17:18:08 madnificent, I've actually considered writing bindings to libgit.a, but I don't think there's enough of a need (yet) 17:18:26 -!- gz__ [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:19:02 for movitz 17:19:31 -!- gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:19:33 -!- gz___ is now known as gz 17:20:01 -!- kerc [n=riise@84.49.151.31] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:20:04 stassats, hmm, I guess the impending Common Lisp Operating System will need a native VCS... 17:21:36 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:22:49 stassats, lol 17:23:15 Which impending Common Lisp Operating System? 17:23:41 You know, the virtualware one. 17:24:32 *deepfire* has a personal favorite virtualware list, including a dwarf3 parser and a native git implementation.. 17:24:36 Adlai: native git, that's what i meant 17:24:53 stassats, are you a git fan? 17:25:30 no, just a user 17:25:37 the interesting thing about git is that it's really two separate layers -- the C layer, and the shell script layer 17:25:51 a lot of the shell scripts are getting rewritten in C though, to be usable on Windows too 17:26:02 -!- dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 17:26:37 -!- Shamiq [n=Adium@165.124.97.31] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:26:46 -!- Haplo_ [n=ihatchon@LPuteaux-156-14-10-37.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 17:27:03 but even the C stuff, if I understand git's structure correctly, is mostly just frobbing various Unix filesystem bits in the .git/ directory 17:27:27 Adlai: OS hackers know how to let the OS do its job. 17:27:38 schmx [i=53e35f0f@gateway/web/freenode/x-wjspvbmivwrpgjbf] has joined #lisp 17:28:09 *deepfire* still waits while debian fixes git SEGVing in peek-remote on http remotes 17:28:51 pkhuong, what do you mean? I just mean that I don't think the git core is anything insanely C specific, mostly just manipulating the .git directory. 17:29:20 *Xach* is reminded of http://community.livejournal.com/evan_tech/254793.html 17:29:29 Adlai: right, hence letting the OS do its job, instead of duplicating functionality in userland. 17:29:49 (yes, I think the git original developper qualifies as 'OS hacker') 17:30:11 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-163-49.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:11 yeah git could all be written as shell scripts (and was, originally) 17:31:09 TR2N [i=email@89-180-230-66.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 17:33:31 Adlai: I remember some chat about a git connection with others too 17:33:58 GNU Arch was written in shell scripts, then rewritten in C, too. 17:34:45 deepfire: yeah and it seems that both of us were brought to Lisp by TL 17:35:00 tcr, :-) 17:35:07 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 17:35:18 Adlai: and you and sykopomp are C->CL converting professionals, so porting git should be a breeze :p 17:35:22 tcr: tom lord, one of the last proponents of fexprs on earth (: 17:35:22 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has left #lisp 17:36:03 -why- do we want a native git again? I completely missed the point. 17:36:13 sykopomp: we don't 17:36:16 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:36:22 sykopomp: it wasn't all that serious 17:36:27 oh ok 17:36:36 sykopomp: for movitz 17:36:55 the really interesting bit about my history that before discovering Lisp, I came up with the concept of a "programmable programming language" by myself and thought I'd be up to something :) 17:36:58 madnificent: speaking of C->CL, there has been the hilarious consideration of porting Bullet, since we've had such a great time porting a 2d physics lib ;) 17:37:04 stassats: oh, so it's not serious at all, ok. 17:37:08 redline6561 [n=redline@168.28.136.21] has joined #lisp 17:37:24 sykopomp: I'll join you this time! 17:37:25 tcr: I was brought to lisp because I started working on a compiler... How things change... 17:37:31 madnificent: you always say that :( 17:37:34 What is Bullet? 17:37:45 sykopomp: I know, but if you start now, I have to learn some more C 17:37:50 schmx: http://bulletphysics.org/wordpress/ 17:37:51 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:37:51 so I actually have an excuse to do so :) 17:37:51 a movie? 17:37:57 madnificent: it's C++ :) 17:38:03 60KLOC of C++ 17:38:04 :| 17:38:06 sykopomp: then I probably wont 17:38:16 lightweight ;) 17:39:04 sykopomp: seems a good idea there 17:39:13 seems suicidal to me. 17:39:17 sykopomp: perhaps some way to run code on CUDA or OpenCL is handier? 17:39:22 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:39:36 madnificent: Bullet does both, actually. 17:39:46 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d2997.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:57 sykopomp: and it doesn't rely on something we can't do in lisp for that? 17:40:33 madnificent: It's in C++, and it exposes an incomplete C API. 17:40:45 oh, sorry, I misread 17:40:49 yeah, I know, aerique was doing that, right? (or who was it?) 17:41:02 I haven't looked at the details of -how- it does CUDA and OCL 17:41:07 a dutchman, in any case 17:41:09 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-110-245.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:41:14 yes. aerique's the one doing the lisp bindings. 17:41:24 -!- s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-168-236-56.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:41:31 *madnificent* can't afford an OCL compatible card 17:43:13 how many kloc was chipmunk? 17:43:21 madnificent, 4 17:43:23 4 of C99 17:44:03 seangrove [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:29 porting bullet would take 10 weeks or so then? 17:45:38 which is the funcion to list heshtable keys . should I use loop ? 17:45:49 kiuma: or maphash 17:45:53 madnificent: that would be my guess. That's a very optimistic estimate, too. 17:46:06 kiuma: hash-table-keys in alexandria 17:46:15 it would, of course, be a major project that we'd need several people with experience with this sort of stuff :) 17:46:33 or with-hash-table-iterator 17:46:50 *eihrul* points to the "That is crazy talk. Please step away from the keyboard now." sign. 17:46:50 and I'm not sure it's necessarily worth it right now, since there's not really a matching, working 3d engine to go with it. 17:47:35 sykopomp: what does bullet lack? 17:47:36 -!- udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-44a6c8c658c25986] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:47:38 and also with respect to bullet, you must consider whether it is what you really need 17:47:57 it is a physics effect library, but if all you need is just simple collisions, then it is totally the wrong choice 17:48:00 madnificent: a fully-bindable C interface :P 17:48:02 _quasi [n=_quasi@122.169.65.152] has joined #lisp 17:48:16 -!- lispm [n=joswig@f054052141.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 17:48:24 and for such purposes it will be vastly slower than specialized collision 17:48:28 eihrul: it's crazy talk, yes. I don't plan on doing this anytime soon, if ever :) 17:48:41 there are other physics libraries, though 17:48:46 like open dynamics engine 17:49:00 not sure whether it is C or C++ 17:49:09 claims to be "C/C++" 17:49:32 http://www.ode.org/ode-latest-userguide.html#sec_4_4_0 17:50:22 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.21.49] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:50:34 sykopomp: nono, I mean from a conceptual POV. What do you lack engine-wise 17:51:00 Last time I used it, ODE's interface was C. 17:51:08 madnificent: oh. There's not really a fully-working 3d graphics engine right now we can use. Okra is sort of working, but I don't think it's ready yet :) 17:51:15 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 17:51:18 there was a project connecting CL to ODE 17:51:30 sykopomp: cl-opengl? 17:51:35 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.68.73] has left #lisp 17:51:42 madnificent: that's just OGL drawing. 17:52:07 sykopomp: i know darkplaces engine incorporated ODE recently and darkplaces is only C, so you might have more luck with it 17:52:23 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:52:34 MrTree_ [n=marc@ip-88-153-48-155.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 17:53:04 -!- maus [n=maus@222.253.104.84] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:53:10 sykopomp: perhaps we'd be better off tackling the drawing part first then? 17:53:18 -!- MrTree [n=marc@ip-88-153-48-155.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:53:21 maus [n=maus@222.253.104.84] has joined #lisp 17:53:21 sykopomp: what libraries are portable for that? 17:53:26 madnificent: I'm more interested in having a working 2d engine, to be completely honest. 17:53:38 I don't care too much about tackling 3d just yet. Maybe in the (distant) future 17:54:05 sykopomp: there is stuff like Box2D and such that come well recommended 17:54:20 sykopomp: I made a lisp 2d engine 17:54:24 sykopomp: good enough :) 17:54:29 performance wasn't great, but you might be interested 17:54:30 sykopomp: http://www.box2d.org/ 17:54:36 eihrul: http://github.com/sykosomatic/squirl.git 17:54:40 the 2d part is covered 17:54:52 and I have my own 2d engine that I'm tidying up. 17:54:59 404 :P 17:55:04 err 17:55:10 http://github.com/sykopomp/squirl.git 17:55:11 eihrul, sykopomp is bad at URLs 17:55:16 Adlai: :< 17:55:24 sykopomp, :P 17:55:34 -!- maus [n=maus@222.253.104.84] has quit [Client Quit] 17:55:51 http://code.google.com/p/mpr2d/ 17:56:01 there is also that algorithm that handles arbitrary convex shape vs. convex shape collision 17:56:08 chris2 [n=zhora@p5B16A830.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:56:18 neat 17:56:43 eihrul: that might be good to add to squirl once we're done with the main port, I bet. 17:57:02 http://code.google.com/p/mpr2d/source/browse/trunk/Mpr.d 17:57:08 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:27 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.212.86] has joined #lisp 17:57:50 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:51 that's not much at all :) 17:58:08 .d, you wrote it in D?! that's one letter too far dude 17:58:17 what is nice about MPR is all shapes are defined by support mappings 17:58:31 so that all you need is a way of parametrically describing the shape 17:58:32 -!- hjpark` [n=user@116.40.135.21] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:58:47 so any implicit convex function can be collided against 17:59:07 eihrul, save us from 130-line-long functions 17:59:35 but it is one magical 130 line long function :P 17:59:38 wlr_ [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:52 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:00:42 http://xenocollide.snethen.com/mpr2d.html 18:00:47 that was the english description, though :P 18:01:13 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:04:22 pkhuong: Could you add (*print-pprint-dispatch* (copy-pprint-dispatch nil)) to %with-standard-io-syntax in src/code/print.lisp, recompile the function, and look at the disassembly 18:04:28 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:04:55 pkhuong: as far as I can see, no type check is generated, even though that variable has a declared type 18:04:56 madnificent: and i didn't write that code, someone else did, i was merely pointing to it :P 18:04:59 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 18:05:31 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:05:42 pkhuong: (no type check for pprint-dispatch-table, contrast this to how a type check for readtable is inserted) 18:07:43 tcr: there shouldn't be any, since the type for copy-pprint-dispatch is known. 18:07:50 Ok that seems to stem from the fact that sbcl is smart enough to emit the type check because it knows the return type of copy-pprint-dispatch 18:07:51 nyquist [n=quassel@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:08:17 *Xach* goes on a flat-sparkline planet lisp purge, removes jsnell's blog, sheds a tear 18:08:48 Xach: eek! new content soon, I promise (: 18:09:26 Xach: you should give jsnell a 30 day eviction notice 18:10:32 eihrul: oh, it wasn't a real blame :) 18:11:22 googlepeons clearly don't have enough time to blog 18:11:31 Xach, you do eviction because of load latency/bandwidth issues? 18:12:17 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:12:27 deepfire: I evict because of inactivity. 18:13:07 Xach, I'm trying to understand what's the problem with inactivity. 18:13:10 Does SBCL optimize tail calls in default settings? 18:13:19 tcr: yes. 18:13:35 I guess that's the reason why I didn't see %with-standard-io-syntax in LDB's backtrace 18:13:46 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:57 tcr: that's not a tail call. 18:14:03 eh true 18:14:16 so why doesn't it show up? 18:14:39 -!- felideon is now known as felideon_away 18:14:45 pkhuong, it probably is -- it's just that SBCL doesn't handle spcpdl merging in tail calls. 18:15:21 Fare, did you get my list-related notice? 18:16:01 yes! 18:17:41 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@193.174.12.194] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:17:58 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.51.32] has joined #lisp 18:19:41 fe[nl]ix, so where do you think XCVB goes amiss? What do you expect from a build system? 18:21:00 Xach: the links for the meetups on planet.lisp.org don't give a nice view. Is that supposed to be like that? 18:22:50 ans [n=ans@user82.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:52 madnificent: I don't know what you mean. The google event summary page don't look like what you want? 18:22:56 doesn't, rather? 18:23:06 -!- ans [n=ans@user82.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has left #lisp 18:23:27 -!- levente_meszaros [n=levente_@94.44.8.203] has quit ["..."] 18:23:56 Xach: when I click on 2009-11-10: lispnyc on p.l.o, it doesn't give me a complete page 18:24:13 plo/meetings is good though 18:24:35 madnificent: you get a partial page? can you show me what it looks like to you? 18:26:33 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:27:11 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit ["have a nice weekend!"] 18:27:23 s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-168-232-24.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:48 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:28:05 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-53-85.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:09 Xach: can I mail it, it contains information of which I can not discover whether or not I should filter it :) 18:28:14 so I'd rather not just paste it 18:28:38 madnificent: could you /msg me a link to a screenshot? 18:31:44 -!- _quasi [n=_quasi@122.169.65.152] has quit [] 18:32:58 Xach: it could be correct behavior, but that non-html page doesn't translate to something nice here, it only shows me my user-prefs (I can make a screenshot of how it looks too, if you'd like) 18:33:40 A screenshot would be nice 18:35:06 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-57.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:35:23 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-cumnjvqovsdqyulm] has joined #lisp 18:35:51 Xach: this is on whichever firefox ubuntu 9.04 provides, so it might be just that 18:36:22 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-53-85.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:37:34 coyo [i=alex@144.162.133.219] has joined #lisp 18:38:04 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@81.84.176.217] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 18:39:03 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-163-49.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:39:47 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 18:42:57 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:43:11 Edico_ [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 18:43:12 sepult`` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-38.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:43:36 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp126.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 18:43:37 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:45:34 stassats: Culprit is slime-complete-symbol* 18:45:38 I'll fix that bug 18:46:12 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:47:30 ok 18:47:30 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-44-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:47:38 ziga` [n=user@BSN-142-51-4.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:23 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-27-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:52:14 -!- legumbre [n=leo@r190-135-27-109.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:52:21 redblue [i=star@ppp095.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:54:50 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 18:57:58 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:17 DrForr_ [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:13 gz` [n=gz@209.6.40.245] has joined #lisp 19:00:29 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-189-70.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:00:56 -!- Edico_ is now known as Edico 19:03:12 -!- gz` [n=gz@209.6.40.245] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:03:29 gz` [n=gz@209.6.40.245] has joined #lisp 19:03:39 ericjames [n=ericjeld@205.149.71.248] has joined #lisp 19:05:27 rm200910 [n=quassel@78-86-87-67.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:05:27 -!- gz` [n=gz@209.6.40.245] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:05:48 gz` [n=gz@209.6.40.245] has joined #lisp 19:07:49 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-9408.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 19:09:20 amaron [n=amaron@cable-89-216-181-46.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:09:35 stassats: (swank::arglist-for-echo-area '("foo")) is wrong, the stuff that is given to that function must contain swank::%cursor-marker% as an indicator where user's point is 19:09:49 sayyestolife [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:10:47 e.g. ("foo" %cursor-marker%) means `(foo|', whereas ("foo" "" %cursor-marker%) means `(foo |' 19:11:29 -!- DrForr [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:11:39 i see, so you'll fix it? 19:13:00 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:13:13 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:13:37 oh, you already did 19:15:26 -!- drewc is now known as drewc2 19:16:28 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:18:08 -!- drewc2 is now known as drewc 19:18:52 hi there drewc 19:19:06 Hey Xach 19:19:08 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:20:07 when's the next lispvan? 19:20:26 is there any way to exploit the lisp hacker/olympic athlete crossover tendency? 19:21:31 Xach: I have no idea... we seem to be lacking in presenters... maybe you could do one after your bobsled run? 19:22:23 the track is curved like parentheses 19:23:02 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:24:10 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 19:27:13 -!- felideon_away is now known as felideon 19:27:29 kerc [n=riise@31.84-49-151.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:33:37 -!- deepfire is now known as Inga 19:34:17 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-238-179.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 19:34:36 -!- coyo [i=alex@144.162.133.219] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:34:49 hmm, Planet Lisp's sixth anniversary is in January. 19:35:20 coyo [i=alex@144.162.133.219] has joined #lisp 19:38:31 -!- coyo [i=alex@144.162.133.219] has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:08 Xach: April will mark my 6th year of lisping.. planet lisp has always been there! 19:42:46 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:43:32 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 19:43:51 dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:06 it got a bit of a redesign today 19:44:07 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:44:14 most people read via rss, i'm sure, so i don't know how many will notice 19:44:20 Shamiq [n=Adium@wireless-165-124-97-31.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 19:44:34 anyone get a sec to look at some homework code? 19:44:47 trying to figure out why it's terminating too early.... 19:44:58 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-091-091.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 19:45:19 minion: tell Shamiq about lisppaste 19:45:19 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 19:45:36 Shamiq pasted "stable-set-difference" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89907 19:45:49 Xach: i read via browser... looks good, smoother 19:46:12 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:21 if i give it (stable-set-difference '(a b c) '(a)) 19:46:34 it should return (b c) 19:46:41 but just quits at (b) 19:47:56 -!- ericjames [n=ericjeld@205.149.71.248] has quit [] 19:47:57 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-156-238-179.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:04 any thoughts? 19:49:13 It looks right to me. 19:49:26 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.21.49] has joined #lisp 19:49:27 Shamiq: is there a bug in stable-intersection? 19:49:43 drewc: hm? 19:50:04 for graham 3-2? 19:50:05 Oh, you are calling stable-intersection instead of stable-set-difference? 19:50:05 -!- dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:50:28 hhahahahahhah 19:50:45 ooops. 19:51:12 dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:19 -!- esden [n=esdentem@repl.esden.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:51:24 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d0671b6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:30 god, i feel dumb... 19:51:44 good evening 19:51:55 howdy 19:52:58 mstevens [n=michaels@198.95.2.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 19:54:37 esden [n=esdentem@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:39 mstevens_ [n=michaels@198.95.2.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 19:55:39 -!- mstevens [n=michaels@198.95.2.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:55:43 -!- mstevens_ is now known as mstevens 19:57:08 Shamiq: No need. Mistakes like that are easy to make, and hard to spot (I didn't see it). 20:02:17 beach: yea, it helps to call the right function when working recursively. 20:03:07 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:25 i often forget to rename recursive call when renaming functions 20:04:59 Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 20:06:37 stassats: yeah, i do that all the time too. then get frustrated when one branch uses the old definition and i can't figure out why :) 20:09:47 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:11:34 -!- schmx [i=53e35f0f@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["Page closed"] 20:13:01 -!- Guest11613 is now known as pragma_ 20:13:56 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 20:13:58 -!- sayyestolife [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 20:14:46 -!- rlarson89 [n=reid85@CPE001cdf73661f-CM001ceacec55e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit 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20:46:38 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-57.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 20:46:53 -!- deepfire is now known as Inga 20:46:55 -!- ziga` [n=user@BSN-142-51-4.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:47:12 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-091-091.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:47:38 -!- davazp [n=user@79.153.148.56] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:52:25 sellout [n=greg@c-66-31-40-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:19 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:56 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:05:28 francogrex [n=user@179.95-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:06:29 kpreid___ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:05 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-66-31-40-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:09:05 -!- nyquist [n=quassel@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:10:45 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-189-70.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:10:57 dabr [n=damian@122-42.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 21:11:19 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:11:21 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:12:40 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:15:24 -!- dabr [n=damian@122-42.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 21:16:47 a guy at work today was asking whether you can have a lisp application respond to instructions by email to start specofic programs? Is it possible? 21:17:09 sure, why not 21:17:34 barf me out, gag me with a spoon 21:18:13 to lotus notes email conating instructions? I couldn't answer bc I didn't have specific examples. 21:18:17 *stassats* gags weirdo with a spoon 21:18:32 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:54 He was contemplating learning VBA to be able to perform such operations at distance 21:19:02 stassats, that's not sequential order. what is it, lazy evaluation? 21:19:20 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 21:19:37 francogrex, if it sends to SMTP then why not? 21:19:55 procmail or sth 21:20:08 minion: cl-smtp? 21:20:09 cl-smtp: CL-SMTP is a simple lisp Networking Library that provides SMTP client protocol. http://www.cliki.net/cl-smtp 21:20:56 uh, he said he needs a lisp application to respond to instructions sent through email 21:21:10 and SMTP isn't used for receiving messages 21:21:19 well, not the client protocol anyway 21:21:46 -!- sepult`` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-38.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:23:22 anyone with mop-using code, or heavy clos stuff: I'd be grateful for tests of my latest commit 21:23:28 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:42 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.202.72] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:24:48 milanj [n=milan@77.46.202.72] has joined #lisp 21:25:24 -!- Inga is now known as deepfire 21:27:05 dysinger_ [n=dysinger@32.177.199.209] has joined #lisp 21:27:25 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:27:51 -!- Shamiq [n=Adium@wireless-165-124-97-31.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has left #lisp 21:28:04 -!- dysinger_ [n=dysinger@32.177.199.209] has quit [Client Quit] 21:28:14 francogr` [n=user@179.95-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:29:40 dysinger_ [n=dysinger@32.177.199.121] has joined #lisp 21:30:12 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@166.187.60.251] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:30:13 -!- dysinger_ is now known as dysinger 21:30:23 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-20-64.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:30:38 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-38.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:31:09 francogrex: you can have procmail or just a simple .forward that launches a lisp application and pipes it the email 21:31:20 cl-smtp can probably be used to parse it, at least 21:31:24 -!- ragnul is now known as rahul 21:32:02 Krystof, awesome .. just waiting around for git to sync :) 21:32:43 -!- rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:33:23 ok guys thanks, good ideas, the cl-smtp 21:34:00 you won't actually be using any SMTP, tho 21:34:25 say, in an unrelated matter, i see for some very weird reason my nickname has become francogr` ! 21:34:47 and the parsing probably won't be a huge deal unless you have mime parts. however I'm not sure that cl-smtp will deal with parsing mime anyway 21:35:11 you probably reconnected without disconnecting the other connection 21:35:12 I'm checking the cl-smtp now 21:35:26 rahul, cl-smtp has mime? 21:35:27 froydnj: there? 21:35:28 oh, cl-smtp may not have parsing code if it's just designed for sending 21:35:36 weirdo: no, I was saying it probably doesn't 21:35:42 rahul: probably. How to kill at least one of my IDs 21:35:42 -!- mstevens [n=michaels@198.95.2.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [] 21:36:03 that crappy IMAP library has mime 21:36:11 'mel-base' 21:36:21 weirdo: well, that's used for reading emails 21:36:27 rm200910 [n=quassel@78-86-87-67.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:36:34 so something like that may actually be more appropriate 21:36:36 mel gibson is a pretty cool guy, eh parses mime and doesn't afraid of anything 21:36:48 varjag: pong? 21:36:52 francogr`: I dunno. not sure how you disconnected... 21:36:53 hei 21:36:57 or connected in the first place 21:37:09 froydnj: you're the author of ironclad, rightg 21:37:38 varjag: most of it, yes 21:37:39 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 21:37:57 hello 21:38:54 froydnj: considering porting it to ecl, but since it's not on supported platform list, i wonder what part would be the problem 21:39:35 rahul: hmm; not sure why i connect eiother. I guess i was getting bored drinking wine with a sexy woman; i thought let's irc chat with some guys about lisp 21:39:41 varjag: there shouldn't be too much to port; maybe gray stream support if you're adventurous 21:39:52 varjag: but last time I looked, ecl was buggy and couldn't compile it 21:39:53 oh, cool 21:40:05 mm 21:40:55 -!- deepfire is now known as Inga 21:41:01 the particular problem was the ECL didn't support (defstruct (foo (:type ...)) ...) correctly 21:41:25 i see 21:42:23 fancy integer subtypes, or any? 21:43:35 (:type (vector (unsigned-byte 32))) 21:43:41 ok 21:44:15 thanks! 21:45:10 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:23 varjag: no problem 21:45:30 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:46:01 froydnj: it's a part of bigger plan to get cl-net-snmp running 21:46:10 which probably uses ironclad for v3 support 21:46:21 varjag: oh, does it? cool. 21:47:17 -!- ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 21:47:55 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-0-62.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:48:43 -!- francogrex [n=user@179.95-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:48:54 ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-0-62.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:49:05 luis: let's do the booking at sunday 21:49:17 -!- Inga is now known as deepfire 21:49:30 amaron_ [n=amaron@cable-89-216-181-46.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:49:57 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:51:59 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:52:09 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 21:52:21 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:52:51 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:54:27 Anyone here using surfraw? 21:55:04 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:17 I have an elvi that searches l1sp.org, and am not sure if I should name it l1sp, after the site, or lispdoc, after what you search. 21:55:37 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 21:56:29 -!- amaron [n=amaron@cable-89-216-181-46.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:57:08 -!- _quasi [n=_quasi@122.169.65.152] has quit [] 21:57:36 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:58:44 Shamwow [n=eshamay@richmondlab-cl7.uoregon.edu] has joined #lisp 21:59:24 hello all - can someone tell me the function for casting a double to an integer? 21:59:47 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:59:49 Shamwow: floor 21:59:50 clhs coerce 21:59:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_coerce.htm 21:59:59 Shamwow: or ceiling, or truncate 22:00:08 round as well 22:00:08 (ignore me) 22:00:28 great, thanks! 22:00:33 *stassats* thought the other way around 22:01:01 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 22:01:10 stassats you were the only one who did it properly with clhs though 22:01:39 It's a handy feature :) 22:01:49 But it's only as handy as knowing what to look for ... 22:03:33 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 22:05:12 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 22:07:31 In McCLIM, what is the "correct" way of creating sheets on the fly and have them adopted by a pane that is defined in the application frame? 22:07:58 Or is doing something like that already bad form? 22:08:53 well, we won't know if it's bad form unless you tell us why you wnat to do this 22:09:37 Shamwow: if you don't know what to look for, the TOC is always a good way to go 22:09:58 but remember that stuff for vectors and lists may generically defined under sequences 22:11:08 rahul: That's where I start out, but there are the few occassions where I end up lost before I begin. I know in C/C++ I would use a type-cast such as (int)(some-int), but I just wasn't sure of the lingo for lisp 22:11:08 22:11:16 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@32.177.199.121] has quit [] 22:11:26 rahul: Well, consider that you want to make a pane that contains a list of different things. A good example would be a thumbnail view, or a window that contains several graphs. Each thumbnail or graph would ideally have its own coordinate system and clipping region. But maybe this is the wrong way to do it? 22:12:25 Sorry, pane that contains several graphs 22:13:40 Hmm, for the graphs example, I could theoretically use one window per graph... 22:13:49 Shamwow: Do you want to truncate a float to an integer, or do you want to access the float's binary representation as an integer? 22:13:52 sg [i=3e164621@gateway/web/freenode/x-oebazlwylxioekyq] has joined #lisp 22:14:12 But it's still nicer to have say four graphs (2x2) in one window and just make a postscript from it like it's layed out on the screen. 22:16:18 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:16:36 -!- amaron_ [n=amaron@cable-89-216-181-46.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:17:48 Xof / Krystof : ok, everything looks good here :) 22:18:30 amaron [n=amaron@cable-89-216-181-46.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:18:32 it's a start. Thanks. 22:19:43 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:19:54 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:21:07 awesome really .. sbcl needs a "donate beer" button or something 22:21:30 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:21:31 Else, is it possible to dynamically make application panes and lay them out in McCLIM? 22:21:51 lnostdal: If it was there, I would use it. 22:22:15 -!- legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-27-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:22:29 legumbre_ [n=leo@r190-135-27-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 22:22:33 lnostdal: if you're using SBCL for your work, you could buy support requests from people who offer commercial support 22:23:01 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:23:09 if you never need to cash in that support request, it can be "spent" on beer 22:24:40 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 22:25:46 That's not nearly as glamorous as having a dedicated button, though... 22:26:31 And isn't glamour what sbcl developers are in it for? 22:29:07 Xach: I like your layout changes. Consider to add TeX-like word wrapping for

aragraphs :) 22:29:09 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:29 (Seriously, I never understood why browser don't do that) 22:32:26 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:34:42 -!- seangrove [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:34:46 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:35:30 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:36:07 -!- rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-164-111.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:38:30 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-166-8.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:13 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.196.35] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:40:30 tcr: I was trying to truncate float->int (i.e. 3.45 ==> 3, 2.21 ==> 2) 22:40:47 rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-164-111.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has joined #lisp 22:41:24 Sikander, personally, I think that a "donate vodka" button would promote a more cost-effective way to bolster SBCL development. So fitting in these troubled times. 22:41:59 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 22:43:28 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:43:51 deepfire: Vodka?! Well, I'm cheap then, a few cans of Coke and some good chocolate keeps me happy for a day! 22:44:20 deepfire: But then again, I'm not anywhere near the level of the sbcl developers. 22:45:29 -!- s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-168-232-24.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:45:42 Sikander, oh, but refined carbohydrates can't possibly be good for your health! 22:45:54 good night 22:46:10 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d0671b6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["cd home"] 22:46:23 deepfire: Which is also why I will *never* reach the level of the sbcl developers :) 22:48:54 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:49:42 So I guess I have to sub-class basic-gadget to make new sheets, adopt them, and move them to proper positions, to do what I want. 22:51:32 ruediger_ [n=quassel@188-23-188-43.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:53:13 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32DE5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:17 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:55:27 dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:39 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:58:22 -!- ruediger [n=quassel@93-82-0-62.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:59:17 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:01:13 brandelune [n=suzume@pl807.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:01:28 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 23:03:29 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 23:03:32 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:41 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:04:44 nicdev [n=nicdev@st401-249.subnet-246.amherst.edu] has joined #lisp 23:05:45 ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 23:06:26 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:06:33 mulander [i=mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:06:49 -!- sg [i=3e164621@gateway/web/freenode/x-oebazlwylxioekyq] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 23:07:11 -!- nicdev [n=nicdev@st401-249.subnet-246.amherst.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 23:07:34 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:08:10 -!- mulander [i=mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has left #lisp 23:09:06 -!- francogr` [n=user@179.95-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:10:37 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp095.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 23:11:51 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has joined #lisp 23:19:30 ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.251] has joined #lisp 23:23:33 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit ["trip!¡lite v1.03b"] 23:24:22 redblue [i=star@ppp068.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:31:30 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:33:07 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:38:04 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-cumnjvqovsdqyulm] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:39:32 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:06 -!- Intertricity [i=Raz@c-66-176-186-87.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:42:11 -!- tcr [n=tcr@88-134-20-86-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:43:19 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:45:09 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["leaving"] 23:46:48 Summermute [n=scott@98.204.67.114] has joined #lisp 23:48:44 -!- rm200910 [n=quassel@78-86-87-67.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:49:22 s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-160-168-79.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:53 sg [i=3e164621@gateway/web/freenode/x-gnrvxzujmmgfvzcr] has joined #lisp 23:49:58 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.242.107] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:50:49 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d2997.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:51:57 simple question. when creating a new lisp app, when writing new functions should I usually compile (C-c C-c) or eval (C-x C-e)? 23:52:13 Jabberwock [n=jens@port-9216.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 23:53:32 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-9408.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:54:44 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.51.32] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:54:44 poet [n=poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 23:55:04 Spaghett1ni [n=Spaghett@vaxjo5.252.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp