00:02:01 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:39 -!- roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 00:06:34 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit ["BB!"] 00:10:12 a bob? 00:10:39 antoszka: but hopefully not MS Bob? 00:10:58 Is that like MS pacman? 00:11:41 p_l: No, not him! 00:12:21 Zhivago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Bob 00:13:27 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:13:47 -!- levy [n=levy@apn-89-223-175-47.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:14:38 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:40 i think it really lived on though with the clip thing 00:14:43 see MS agents 00:14:54 s/Agent 00:15:41 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:15:41 MS Agent is finally dropped for 7+ apparently 00:16:43 -!- Alabaman_ [n=badgerfa@81.226.253.54] has quit [Client Quit] 00:17:19 I wonder why was there no answer to Pascal's GF MOP-ness mail on the CCL list. 00:18:40 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-90974.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:25:29 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-100-54.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:29:29 -!- ziga`` [n=user@BSN-142-52-164.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:29:38 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-100-54.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:31:11 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-100-54.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:31:54 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6DF45.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:36:06 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-vpaobznwcjcmipxb] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:41:29 ahh 00:41:37 good to be able to relax for a bit 00:42:03 I have two choices... play xbox or learn some lisp I think... 00:42:31 Lisp it is! 00:42:36 lol 00:42:38 you mentioned it in here so you know what you really want to do 00:42:43 meeting over? 00:42:43 I need two things: A Google Calendar feed parser and a twitter client. 00:42:49 Hop to it. 00:43:01 *Xach* wants lisp meeting calendar on planet lisp sidebar 00:43:21 I'm hoping to learn how to interact with sockets and stuff soon :) 00:43:28 but all the basic stuff is important too 00:43:32 xach: you twitter? any there is me thinking you had class... 00:45:06 Guthur: hahaha, good one 00:45:19 *p_l* still haven't found a reason for twitter's existence... 00:45:36 its suckballs 00:45:37 just to get attention? 00:45:38 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:45:43 pure marketing idioicy 00:45:50 but hey so are many billion dolar corps 00:45:51 lol 00:46:25 It was pretty helpful at ILC 2009 for coordinating fun stuff. 00:46:43 does lisp have something simular to Perl's POE, or Python's twisted? 00:46:58 well, some people mentioned using it to find jobs etc. And yes, coordinating might be fine with it, but I think I'd prefer something like a decentralised chatroom 00:47:08 fatalnix1995: I think iolib aims for that. 00:47:15 ah. 00:47:17 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 00:47:27 way above my level but I use POE all the time with Perl 00:47:29 pfeyz [n=user@146.95.65.217] has joined #lisp 00:47:31 fatalnix1995: I think the usual answer would be "not yet", though yes, iolib does much of what I remember Twisted doing 00:47:45 though Twisted was truly twisted 00:48:09 penthief [n=matt@87-194-57-101.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:48:48 *Xach* would be happy for a drakma-based solution 00:50:23 #python love twisted 00:50:34 it was borderline evangelical 00:50:38 can't you embed a google calendar directly into a page? using an iframe or some such? 00:50:55 quodlibetor [n=user@ool-4570c6ff.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:58 kind of put me off using it actually 00:51:07 rahul: You can. I want a little more control. 00:51:14 I saw one somewhere, but it was a full calendar, not sidebar style 00:51:15 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:51:23 -!- pfeyz [n=user@146.95.65.217] has quit [Client Quit] 00:51:26 Plus the tweeting bit. It's not actually hard, but hey, if someone wants to learn CL, a straightforward project. 00:51:27 want want want 00:51:53 *rahul* looks at fatalnix1995 00:52:00 Xach: and CLIM gui? :P 00:52:05 pfeyz [n=user@146.95.65.217] has joined #lisp 00:52:09 I'm not sure i quite understand the reason for supplied-p, unless that is checking if the default value of a parameter is set differently or not by the caller 00:52:11 -!- gaze_ [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [] 00:52:38 ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.48] has joined #lisp 00:52:39 fatalnix1995: you can't just check for nil, because a nil might be explicitly provided. 00:52:49 fatalnix1995: correct 00:53:19 but supplied-p shouldnt be used for checking if a param simply has a value, right? 00:53:24 that way you can give meaning to any value whatsoever for the parameter but still be able to detect when no value is provided 00:53:28 its easy enough to do that 00:53:31 impulse32 [n=impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176313971.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:53:41 fatalnix1995: just try 00:53:44 fatalnix1995: how is it easy to do that without using suppled-p? 00:54:02 if you arent using default values? 00:54:14 fatalnix1995: what if you are? 00:54:34 then you know it -always- has a value. 00:54:36 (defun f (&key x) ....) (f :x nil) 00:54:56 hmm 00:54:56 (defun f (&key (x 15)) ....) (f :x 15) 00:56:21 I see 00:56:44 neat 00:56:56 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483EBFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:57:33 I think that its really awesome that you can supply arguments based on other arguments 00:57:37 kenny added that to arc 00:57:57 rahul: what brings you back this evening? holiday? 00:57:58 something I'd almost never use, but neat 00:58:54 when reinitialize-instance is called with a class, supplied-p determines if the list of superclasses is actually NIL, or, if not supplied, then it hasn't changed. NIL meaning false and also being the empty lists has a few gotchas like that. 00:58:57 Xach: no, just upgraded my system to something that can handle running X 00:58:58 heh 00:59:00 I think lisp is the most interesting language I have ever looked into. 00:59:07 old hardware was starting to flake out under load 01:00:51 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229084224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 01:01:22 rahul: why this reminds me of Firefox? 01:01:57 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 01:02:45 (defvar *stress-test* (run-program "/usr/bin/firefox")) 01:02:54 er wrap that in a lambda 01:03:49 rahul do you run X 01:04:13 gotta do it in cli 01:04:16 :D 01:04:33 Guthur: yes 01:04:34 my current firefox's resource usage would kill all my previous machines 01:04:47 oh wait i'm thinking of KDE 01:04:49 (excluding the last one after refit) 01:05:06 I can't even imagine how it would be with KDE :/ 01:05:06 Digital_Praetori [n=user@95.104.105.82] has joined #lisp 01:05:40 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:43 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 01:05:49 *p_l* has 118 tabs open => 520M resident memory usage. That's after making a special build that cut resource usage a lot 01:06:06 debian got rid of their m68k port because it took longer to compile KDE than the time between updates 01:06:37 ... 01:06:53 what about cross-compiling? 01:07:04 Also, does current KDE fit in memory of any available m68k port? ;D 01:07:13 exactly 01:07:33 I don't know why they just didn't exclude it from that architecture 01:07:52 i tried it for about 3 days, it out aero'd vista 01:08:15 well, you can configure it to be much leaner than the default 01:08:49 I think it, like gtk, uses pixmaps for widgets by default 01:08:59 Gnome is graphical enough for me 01:09:01 _scaled_ pixmaps 01:09:15 gnome and kde are equivalently graphical 01:09:35 it's like comparing GM to Chrysler 01:09:37 where is the lisp web browser 01:09:43 due to resource constraints, I use only XMonad and TWM :P 01:09:44 clojure stinks 01:09:54 I want lisp to prove its the best 01:09:56 in yer face 01:09:58 the_unmaker: closure? 01:09:58 TWM is pretty heavy 01:10:02 to python ruby etc. 01:10:11 iceWM rocks 01:10:11 the_unmaker: then get hacking. 01:10:19 I am lernign lisp now 01:10:31 I think only enlightenment is more heavy than TWM 01:10:31 the_unmaker: for a Lisp web browser, check closure 01:10:34 I think if javascript could be flushed and clisp be the web lang everyone would win 01:10:35 rahul maybe you can make kde look like gnome but really out of the box its like win 95 to vista 01:10:50 p_l: I dispatch an invisible stalker to kil you 01:11:02 minion: closure 01:11:03 closure: Closure is a free web browser written completely in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/closure 01:11:07 Guthur: you can make either one look like anything you want 01:11:13 closure was crash city when i tried the pos 01:11:16 Guthur: so I ignore arguments about that 01:11:19 stumpwm stunk too 01:11:27 the_unmaker: please, stop 01:11:27 the_unmaker: better get hacking, then 01:11:27 I might do a wm liek iceWM in common lisp 01:11:30 that would roack 01:11:34 k 01:11:36 troussan [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:48 rahul, sorry didn't mean to argue, that was just my impression 01:11:58 Guthur: defaults are for losers 01:12:00 !! 01:12:10 gaze [n=gaze@169-231-109-125.wireless.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 01:12:20 hhh i must be a loser by default 01:12:34 more than halfway through the functions chapter :D 01:12:56 Guthur: everyone is. you must customize yourself :) 01:13:31 kids these days... 01:13:49 wrong channel lol 01:15:17 i don't think anyone would have noticed 01:15:18 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:15:47 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 01:17:50 uncap 01:18:22 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:18:54 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 01:19:34 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:26:10 crappy does anyone know if xmls-system is no longer available through asdf 01:26:59 -!- Digital_Praetori [n=user@95.104.105.82] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:28:17 oh it is, my bad, its xmls not xmls-system 01:28:58 What methodology do you use to program in non-OO languages, like Lisp? 01:29:20 well, assuming you are not using CLOS 01:29:21 konr: you've been painfully misled; Lisp has full support for OO. 01:30:13 konr: some people avoid OO and program functionally in Lisp... it's also possible to combine the two, although I don't know of any examples. 01:30:51 OO is 3 orthogonal things 01:31:01 kind of like XP 01:31:02 -!- penthief [n=matt@87-194-57-101.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:31:19 OO in CL is really just a bunch of macros 01:31:20 rahul: enlighten... 01:31:52 Guthur: C-c RET 01:31:58 you can't avoid polymorphism in CL 01:31:59 I'd say that CLOS feels more like Haskell, actually (at least I only started understanding generic functions after trying Haskell) 01:32:04 nor can you avoid encapsulation 01:32:12 nyquist [n=quassel@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 01:32:22 -!- udzinari [n=quassel@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:32:41 Adlai, cheers i was just thinking i needed to know more emacs 01:33:01 rahul: CL is really just a bunch of macros. 01:33:02 :P 01:33:06 Guthur: That's a slime keybinding... vanilla emacs doesn't have much support for CL 01:33:16 it's turtles all the way down! 01:33:26 Ralith: or functions that at some point might call eval or compile ;-) 01:33:29 Ralith: uhhh no... the functions and special forms do a lot of the heavy lifting too 01:33:46 *rahul* turns p_l and Adlai into turtles 01:34:02 Adlai: I was pointing out how silly the "OO in CL is just macros" point was :P 01:34:07 Adlai it bring up an emacs tutorial for me, is that with slime then 01:34:13 *p_l* drops a Holy Donkey Statue on rahul 01:34:25 p_l: turtles can't do that! 01:34:25 Guthur: haha, no... in SLIME, it should macroexpand the form at point. 01:34:47 Guthur: slime adds a menu, too 01:34:59 so you can see what commands it has and their keybindings 01:35:14 *Adlai* does (push =snapping-turtle= parents) and eats rahul 01:35:14 Adlai you see i was weary about what it might do so i opened a new emacs, i was fearful you might be trying to trick me into doing something odd 01:35:45 rahul: slime only adds a menu when you have menus enabled :) 01:36:15 Guthur: try `M-x describe-key' if you're ever unsure of something. 01:36:22 Adlai: that's why you enable menus :) 01:36:23 For starters -- M-x describe-key C-h k 01:38:03 -!- pfeyz [n=user@146.95.65.217] has left #lisp 01:38:17 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:38:30 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 01:38:41 rahul: there are better solutions, like functions that put menu into minibuffer :-) 01:45:38 splittist [n=dmurray@203.127.237.95] has joined #lisp 01:45:41 morning 01:46:35 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:46:49 splittist: morning 01:47:04 -!- faux` [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:47:08 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 01:48:41 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:49:02 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:52 i get a c-string decoding error (:external-format :UTF-8): when trying to install a asdf package, any ideas 01:50:34 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:52:24 -!- nyquist is now known as udzinari 02:01:16 -!- aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:02:19 redblue [i=star@ppp051.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:04:08 -!- gaze [n=gaze@169-231-109-125.wireless.ucsb.edu] has quit [] 02:08:10 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 02:09:45 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:10:17 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 02:11:51 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 02:22:26 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:22:48 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 02:22:58 angel_ [n=angel@125.33.207.186] has joined #lisp 02:23:20 how can it call a macro like funtion in function funcall 02:23:44 angel_: You can't. 02:24:25 angel_: Is it a standard CL macro, or one of your own make? 02:25:51 -!- udzinari [n=quassel@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:25:54 Guthur: search the #lisp log. It's been discussed before. There's a few things you can do. 02:26:25 one of i make 02:26:49 -!- quidnunc [n=user@70.50.9.51] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:26:53 (funcall #'macro ...) 02:27:01 (defmacro maro ...) 02:27:13 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 02:27:32 meingbg, thanks, it was a small lib anyway, i just grabbed the source and loaded it manually 02:27:42 angel_: you can't funcall a macro, period. 02:28:14 the closest you can do is (funcall (lambda (x y z) (macro x y z))) 02:28:34 passing args of course :) 02:28:44 angel_: What are you trying to do? 02:28:47 Perhaps MACRO-FUNCTION would be useful. 02:29:44 i want to funcall an macro 02:29:46 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:30:04 angel - why do you want to do this? 02:30:14 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host86-140-191-199.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 02:30:25 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 02:30:43 macro-function used to get the definition of macro 02:31:13 maybe i define a macro "macro-call" 02:31:47 mdh [n=user@cpe-76-88-124-101.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:31:58 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:32:54 Is it possible to redefine local functions inside a (label ) ? 02:33:09 meingbg: sure 02:33:10 (labels), that is. 02:33:20 Adlai: How? 02:33:31 with another labels (or a flet) 02:33:45 Adlai: Well, that creates a new lexenv, doesn't it? 02:33:55 yes 02:34:30 you can't portable alter a function bound with labels or flet 02:34:41 *portably 02:34:47 Adlai: Ouch. 02:34:54 Adlai: Maybe I'm stuck. 02:35:03 why is creating a new lexenv a problem? 02:35:04 (labels ((f () 1)) (let ((x (lambda () (f)))) (do-magic) (funcall x))) ? 02:36:18 ayrnieu: Why (lambda () (f)) instead of (funcall #'f) ? 02:36:20 local functions don't really exist as such 02:36:34 erm 02:36:42 you mean instead of #'f... no funcall 02:36:56 rahul: nope, the funcall is there. 02:36:59 Adlai: (labels ((a () (b)) (b () (a)) (labels ((a () ()) (b))) 02:37:04 ehhhh 02:37:06 rahul: nvm. 02:37:09 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:37:09 :) 02:37:31 meingbg: yes, you're creating a new lexenv there. 02:37:40 Adlai: That would be an infinite recursion. 02:37:54 ok 02:38:34 So b is calling the a function of the topmost lexenv. Creating a new lexenv is nothing like altering functions, that's the problem. 02:39:02 it's really hard to tell what you're trying to do 02:39:05 Adlai - because I wanted to refer to F before changing it. 02:39:08 *stassats`* saw news about ccl's code coverage, but it outputs html---no fun, http://common-lisp.net/~sboukarev/slime-coverage.png 02:39:16 Adlai: I'll try to explain. 02:39:35 -!- troussan [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:40:09 -!- quodlibetor [n=user@ool-4570c6ff.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:41:26 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:30 Adlai: I want to, locally, create functions node, disp and work. When disp is defined, (getwork #'disp) will return the work function. disp needs to call node, and node needs to call work. 02:42:32 stassats`: isn't that done using the same coverage engine? 02:42:46 stassats`: it was definitely created by the same company for the same purpose... 02:43:06 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:49 meingbg: I don't see why you can't do that with labels. 02:43:59 rahul: yes, engine is the same, i just hacked it a bit to color in emacs with slime 02:44:34 Adlai: Because (getwork #'disp) should only be called once, no matter how many times work is called. 02:44:43 Adlai: That's where I get stuck. 02:44:43 -!- angel_ [n=angel@125.33.207.186] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:45:11 what does getwork do? 02:45:14 meingbg: it sounds like you're trying to do OOP 02:45:27 ... or Scheme 02:45:33 rahul: This is everything except OOP. 02:45:44 meingbg: what does that even mean? 02:46:00 It's for a paradigm implementation. 02:47:15 um 02:47:17 Adlai: getwork is a macro that expands into an arbitrary form. The only specification is that the expanded form should, when evaluated, return a work function. It may return a closure, which is why it shouldn't be called more than once. 02:47:20 meingbg: again, what does that even mean? 02:48:07 rahul: I'm trying to implement a few macros to enable me to code the way I think. Being able to do this is why I came to Lisp. 02:48:52 peddie_ [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:41 meingbg: you're thinking in terms of OOP, as far as I can tell 02:50:14 at least in this little part of the program 02:50:15 meingbg: How about you lisppaste some code written in this style. 02:50:32 ie, assume that your macros and labels are sorted, and show how you'd use them. 02:52:40 Adlai: Once they're set up, the only usage is returning the node function. 02:53:21 Adlai: (labels (node, work, disp...) (lambda (p ip) (node p ip))) 02:53:39 Adlai: Or just #'node 02:53:39 eh? 02:54:05 then what is the point of doing all this just to get a function you can call? 02:54:29 rahul: because I can have n number of node, work, disp functions respectively. 02:54:52 *Adlai* scratch head. 02:55:04 (labels (node1 work1 disp1 ... noden workn dispn) #'node1) 02:55:37 *meingbg* scratch head. 02:56:13 meingbg: so you want to be able to define any number of closures 02:57:15 meingbg: what's wrong with just using labels right now, and once you see a pattern distinct enough that you can describe it concretely, abstracting that? 02:58:02 cvandusen [n=cvanduse@99-166-72-116.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:35 the problem is that right now, your pattern is too abstract. 02:59:35 Adlai: I don't see how I could use labels for this one...? 02:59:55 meingbg: you can easily use labels to generate a closure. 03:00:10 although it's easier with lambda, since you're only writing one function 03:00:12 meingbg: you still haven't explained "this one" beyond a bunch of functions and a macro which call eachother. 03:00:36 ok. 03:00:37 also note that mutual recursion is possible, you just need base cases. 03:01:29 -!- peddie [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:02:09 Adlai: The basic problem is that work1 should be able to call work2 without knowing it's name. disp functions are name converters. 03:02:13 -!- the_unmaker [n=g@209.31.33.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:02:28 ok, so pass work2 as a parameter to work1 03:02:31 ie: 03:03:15 (let ((work1 (lambda (work2 arg1 arg2 &rest etc) (funcall work2 (frob arg1 arg2 etc))))) ...) 03:03:16 that's just continuation passing, afaict 03:03:41 right 03:05:21 Adlai: But now work2 cannot call work1? 03:05:40 ok, try this one... 03:05:42 *Adlai* pastes 03:05:56 the basic idea is the same, thoug 03:06:01 rahul: How did you mean creating closures using labels? 03:06:21 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 03:06:40 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 03:07:09 Adlai pasted "CPS, Labels, & co" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89537 03:07:16 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-26-208.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:07:27 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 03:07:31 oh, sorry, messed up. 03:08:08 Adlai annotated #89537 "More like what meingbg wants..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89537#1 03:08:40 meingbg: you're asking for a combinatorical explosion, though... 03:08:49 quodlibetor [n=user@ool-4570c6ff.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:40 this isn't too bad with two functions, but I'm not sure what the benefits are if you try doing this with, say, six vigorously recursive mutual-stranger functions. 03:09:57 meingbg: (labels ((blah ...)) #'blah) 03:10:33 Adlai: Well, ok, I can see how that works. 03:10:40 OOP is a way to control the combinatorial explosion 03:10:57 you basically say that all knees are compatible with legs 03:11:24 so a leg must be given some knee, whatever kind you like, that responds in ways that legs will expect 03:11:26 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uapgarptonpqobpo] has joined #lisp 03:11:58 Adlai: The thing is, How do I do this now, if I don't have the code for writing f2. But I do have code that returns it. 03:12:03 probably overkill if you're only going to be doing one and only one operation ever with these things 03:12:25 meingbg: you can define f2 apart from the rest of the code 03:12:27 you can't write it, but you can write code that returns it? 03:12:43 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:12:48 (labels ((f2 (k &rest args) (funcall k (frob args)))) #'f2) 03:13:14 rahul: Yes, for example, if it is a closure. (let (asdfsdfsdf) (lambda () sdf)) 03:13:28 but you just wrote it... 03:14:10 you pass the continuation to the function that calls it 03:14:16 that's all there is to it 03:14:40 you're mostly trying to do applicative programming, it seems 03:14:48 meingbg: have you read about CPS? 03:14:57 Adlai: No. 03:15:07 functions in CL that are written in that style are basically the entire sequences library 03:15:07 it looks like you want to do CPS, but aren't familiar with it 03:15:18 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:15:20 specifically, the :key and :test parameters 03:15:21 rahul: I did *not* write a function definition, only code that returns it. 03:15:47 meingbg: they are the same thing once compiled 03:16:04 meingbg: the defintion is turned into code that returns it upon compilation, too 03:16:32 I can't fathom where the problem is.... 03:16:42 once you have a function object, you can funcall it. 03:16:50 rahul: ok, but then tell me how to get a closure returned from an arbitrary form to recurse mutually with a local function. 03:17:00 meingbg: labels 03:17:05 meingbg: didn't I just show you? 03:17:06 rahul: Show me. 03:17:08 return it from labels 03:17:12 meingbg: didn't I just show you? 03:17:40 (labels ((f (...) ... (f ...)...)) #'f) 03:18:02 or use defun 03:18:06 Adlai: Maybe I'm stupid, but as far as I understood you did not show me how I can make a closure mutually recurse with a local function. 03:18:25 (defun f ...) and use #'f where you want to use it 03:19:00 meingbg: how would you write multually recursive functions in the first place? 03:19:09 just return the one that is the entry point. 03:19:45 instead of calling the function, return it. 03:20:14 a local function IS (or at automatically becomes, when needed) a closure 03:20:26 rahul: mutually recursive functions are simple to do with labels, just as Adlai showed recently. However, labels require function *definitions*, so as far as I understand, I can not make a closure this way? 03:20:46 Um, why can't function definitions be closures? 03:20:47 *rahul* boggles 03:20:51 meingbg: no, you didn't understand my example. 03:21:02 meingbg: what are you on about? 03:21:09 sykopomp: s/ about// 03:21:12 meingbg: #'f1 -> instant closure. 03:21:15 meingbg: are you saying that local functions can't be closures? 03:21:34 meingbg: or are you saying that local functions can't be mutually recursive? 03:21:40 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:21:42 rahul: nope, of course they can. 03:22:14 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-24-5-85-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:22:15 Wait, I'll paste the problem. 03:22:27 this should be interesting. 03:22:38 Yes, very. 03:22:41 s/interesting/hilarious/ 03:23:43 I hope so. When we all end up laughing at me, *after* this one is solved, I'm all good. 03:24:22 -!- ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit ["Coyote finally caught me"] 03:24:48 meingbg: 1. define mtually recursive functions using labels. 2. return the function that is the entry point from the labels form. 03:25:05 -!- cvandusen [n=cvanduse@99-166-72-116.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:25:49 rahul: Show me how to do this, if I want one or both of those functions to be closures, without doing any lexenv arount that labels, only inside. 03:25:49 Adlai annotated #89537 "(loop (learn (read)))" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89537#2 03:26:19 meingbg: That's what your trying to do. 03:26:35 meingbg: that's what labels does 03:27:03 meingbg: why can't labels be a toplevel form? 03:27:14 meingbg: look at my paste. please. 03:27:36 meingbg: you need to store the closure somewhere, anyway 03:27:58 meingbg: the obvious place is as a function definition. in which case, you don't need labels at all. just write functions. 03:28:03 hilarity ensues 03:28:07 dylan? 03:28:08 rahul: you too. look at my paste. 03:28:08 and refer to them when you need them 03:28:20 sykopomp: and you. 03:28:37 Adlai: I already looked. Nothing new there. 03:28:43 *Adlai* ragequit! 03:29:30 troussan [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:49 no, he needs to pass f2 into f1 03:29:56 not refer to it in f1 03:30:10 which just means that he needs to add it as a parameter 03:30:23 all this discussion about trying to refer to a parameter instead of a global variable? 03:33:17 no, we talk about dylan 03:33:17 instead of dead CL 03:35:03 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:03 03:35:03 -!- names: ccl-logbot pemryan hugod troussan spradnyesh quodlibetor peddie_ nvoorhies mdh ASau kleppari redblue splittist sellout gonzojive_ impulse32 ayrnieu sepult aja OmniMancer wlr kpreid beelzebug rtoym konr dstatyvka AntiSpamMeta mornfall hdurer_ raptelan jyujin DrForr p_l rsynnott1 michaelw Bucciarati Fade johs fawxtin arbscht fnordus schme jyujin_ tsuru housel frontiers Pepe_ Ginei_Morioka CrazyEddy Draggor EinarDog1in rlonstein hdurer__ ski 03:35:03 -!- names: ecraven metasyntax dfox asksol joast dmm_ luis REPLeffect_ joga Vonunov qidush bdowning literal poet fatalnix1995 cataska meingbg vsync froydnj zbigniew Borbus cmm hadronzo` ianmcorvidae spacebat_ s0ber pixel5 mdj tltstc ia lnostdal coyo retupmoca KatrinaTheLamia _3b bfein araujo rutski drewc benny rdd rlb3 lemoinem marioxcc rahul didi tarbo_ erg tvaalen rullie xristos Soulman bohanlon Adrinael Tordek cods BrianRice Dodek prip esden stoop 03:35:03 -!- names: nullman sykopomp Zhivago fgtech beach unicoder knobo carlocci pjb rstandy Taggnostr Jasko2 ltriant Sikander dysinger Krystof legumbre_ ejs Fare PissedNumlock rey_ billstclair kefka stassats` TR2N kejsaren_ nicktastique nasloc__ bartiosze ryepup Spaghettini daniel authentic seelenquell Summermute pookey hefner ``Erik eno Adlai majhool Demosthenes felipe lpolzer_ huangjs redline6561 Ralith rread ramus` h3r3tic madnificent trittweiler lisppaste 03:35:03 -!- names: thatdavidmiller rsynnott pragma_ borism_ zeroish` lukjad007 xinming dlowe chii whoppix tessier boyscared skeptomai|away srcerer antoszka Deus-Imperator gz Xach Lycurgus bulibuta anekos xan-afk spiaggia clog Axioplase lharc herbieB phadthai metric hsaliak_ ampleyfly lichtblau scode myrkraverk nowhere_man Patzy mikezor piso tic mathrick djinni` JuanDaugherty dmiles_afk zeroish cpt_nemo stepnem dcrawford leo2007 l_a_m dalkvist Aisling cipher 03:35:03 -!- names: antifuchs z0d acieroid Wombatzus m4thrick rbancroft yacin delYsid wgl ineiros blast_hardcheese qed koollman Buganini Douglish yahooooo mtd thijso rotty sepi mgr Khisanth egn setheus kuwabara2 Guest67387 pkhuong vcgomes eihrul jrockway deepfire slather _3b` Xof bakkdoor Orest^bnc j0ni gonzojive specbot minion rapacity jsnell cow-orker r0bby foom looooop sjbach hoeq^ nickcave itze pok guenthr guaqua codemonk1yx kloeri krappie easyE hohum robewald 03:35:03 -!- names: dostoyevsky 03:35:04 you love me trolling 03:35:04 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["May the Coyoes cook you some hot chili some day!"] 03:35:07 trolling is a art, eh? 03:35:12 Adlai: I don't know what to say. There's really nothing new there. It can't really solve it in the setup I was intending... perhaps it was just a stupid setup in the first place. 03:35:15 schme: an* 03:35:20 sykopomp: exactly 03:35:26 what else would you do besides me trolling>? except dorking around on bad libaries 03:35:27 schme: not at all. 03:35:33 meingbg: uhh, my example showed how to do what you wanted. 03:35:59 write a damn language 03:35:59 *Adlai* hopes that Xach, Krystof, Xof, antifuchs, or any one of those nice and friendly people are around. 03:36:04 on top of CL 03:36:04 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 03:36:04 maskd [n=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has joined #lisp 03:36:17 *stassats`* found /ignore around 03:37:01 we don't program in assmebly language no more, just like we don't program in raw CL anymore 03:37:26 beelzebug: I'm sorry? I programmed in assembly just yesterday. 03:37:27 beelzebug: but however much you add, it's still a ball of mud. 03:37:30 felideon [n=felideon@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:50 (incf schme) 03:37:55 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:38:03 *stassats`* hopes also that others wouldn't feed the troll 03:38:24 stassats`: yeah good idea. I'll go with the /ignore 03:38:27 stassats`: sometimes it's funny to watch the troll grope for food... 03:39:02 Adlai: You 03:39:03 eh 03:39:05 damnit 03:39:09 Adlai: You're a sick person. 03:39:13 see ' is next to RET 03:39:18 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:39:19 :( 03:39:36 oh, no, s-expressions isn't the reason lispy languages never took off...oh no 03:39:43 dorkistan 03:39:52 listen dorks 03:40:24 *stassats`* has deleted slime-coverage code, because it became too boring 03:40:56 doh, sbcl-build failure, long time no see 03:41:22 :O 03:41:50 Adlai: The original problem was another, if you recall. But I think I did have a brain deadlock, I'm sure it's possible to do what I want some way or another. Thanks for your time. 03:42:31 lisp for old people 03:42:33 meingbg: give the bill a week or two to arrive. 03:43:11 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@203.127.237.95] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:43:16 we can macro it up, but have damn syntax 03:43:18 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 03:44:51 the most ugly shit in the world is CL programming 03:44:53 kleppari_ [n=spa@jaki.tolva.is] has joined #lisp 03:45:27 we can have better, dylan, and that "lisp for old people" 03:45:43 we see c.l.l 03:45:44 Adlai: For the record, the original problem was to have a closure returned from an arbitrary form mutually recurse with a function that had to passed as an argument to the form. 03:45:57 beelzebug - dylan programming cannot even keep the attention of its fanatics well enough for them to hack out something interesting. 03:46:09 meingbg: and... did you see my example? 03:46:12 ayrnieu: brother, either can CL 03:46:45 do I need to show you how to change it to do what you just said? 03:47:14 ayrnieu: brother, we CL with damn syntax 03:48:29 meingbg: call f2 as (funcall f2 #'f1 a b) and call f1 as (funcall f1 #'f2 a b) 03:48:33 Adlai: You could just pass an argument, I got it. 03:49:00 meingbg: in that last example, the entire second form could be a function, and it could accept the first form from the example as an argument. 03:49:53 meingbg - you could also have a pair of closures in a lexical environment with a placeholder for the mutually-recurring function, which the second closure just sets. 03:50:52 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 03:52:50 ayrnieu: placeholder? 03:54:40 meingbg - a variable that the first closure funcalls 03:55:20 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:55:23 ayrnieu: I get it. Well, that's simple enough. 03:55:58 "i wear my sunglasses at night...." 03:57:18 ayrnieu: Actually, that's what I asked in the very first place, if one could redefine local functions. Why bother, when I could just set a variable. 03:58:20 *nod* 03:58:28 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:59:04 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:59:48 yeah, that's why there's a distinction between functions and variables 04:00:22 variables are things that can change easily, functions are for the _code_ of your application 04:00:23 it was a pretty intentional distinction 04:02:00 *stassats`* doesn't get, why does one need O_LARGEFILE on 64-bit linux 04:02:16 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 04:02:38 because people that do things don't program in CL 04:03:00 there's nobody that programs in CL 04:03:23 right, i have a list that looks like a plist (key value key2 value2 ...), but the keys aren't symbols, so getf doesn't work. can i do a mapcar with multiple values from the same list ot read it in pairs? 04:03:23 except for like 5 dudes, there's nobody that will every hire anybody for CL 04:03:24 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uapgarptonpqobpo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:03:39 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mogscskplpbsykxm] has joined #lisp 04:04:32 why don't you use alists? 04:05:05 lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-218-053.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:18 Demosthenes - (loop for (a b) on plist ...) 04:05:28 by #'cddr 04:05:30 Demosthenes: alists would be better, but you can traverse a plist using (loop for (k v) on list ...) note the ON 04:05:43 rahul: i'd have to convert, i didn't control it getting into this state 04:05:44 yeah,and the missing by #'cddr 04:05:57 ah, on! 04:06:01 stassats` double-scores! 04:06:03 stassats`: i do use alists ;] 04:06:26 this is returned from cl-ppcre:split from a file :P they paired up sets of key/value on one line 04:06:48 ah, so that's your error 04:06:56 a programmer had a problem 04:07:00 he decided to use regex 04:07:04 now he has two problems 04:07:47 i take it you don't like regexp 04:07:53 so, regular expressions aren't feasible at all? 04:07:56 my complaint is bad input, but i have to make due 04:07:57 regexp doesn't like you, apparently 04:08:05 (i agree with html parsing version) 04:08:16 Demosthenes: the input is perfectly fine 04:08:39 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 04:08:40 stassats`: regexp tools usually can't structure their output 04:08:48 since regexp isn't a parsing tool. 04:09:17 named capture in regexp is a huge timesaver, especially going straight to alists 04:09:24 heh 04:09:34 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-100-54.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:09:57 but you're not capturing to names and you're not going straight to alists 04:10:05 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440880.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 04:10:07 so I don't see what that has to do with this :) 04:10:43 i'm not capturing to names. thats the problem 04:10:48 (and I don't think there is a regexp library that supports either, either way) 04:11:00 cl-ppcre does a great job with named capture 04:11:21 thats cl-ppcre:scan, this is split 04:11:23 as great as horrible pain can be, at least 04:11:26 right 04:12:20 -!- troussan [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:12:29 (m-v-c #'collect-alist (scan-plist (cl-ppcre:scan ...)))) 04:13:39 but I don't see why you don't just read-line and then split that 04:13:52 what are the actual delimiters? 04:16:00 ": " or " {2,}" 04:17:07 so the regexp is ": *| {2,}" 04:17:30 doesn't look right 04:17:33 human readable text :P 04:17:38 sure it does, works like a charm 04:17:43 they did something like: 04:17:54 KEY: VALUE KEY2: VALUE2 04:18:07 where either key can have a single space, and all keys & values have dynamic widths 04:18:27 pardon, key or value can have single space 04:18:42 crap englishy "legible" output is a pita to parse 04:19:10 is there anyway to get the top N most popular blog posts for any given day? any google reader gurus? 04:19:32 if even just the titles 04:19:38 -!- kleppari_ [n=spa@jaki.tolva.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:19:50 fusss: define popular 04:20:18 for any market/community segment, the ones that are in the headlines 04:20:42 -!- lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-255-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:21:06 most popular in tech, economy, mainstream news, sports, health, etc. 04:21:19 ah 04:22:12 perhaps i can get that from twitter 04:27:39 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 04:28:00 Demosthenes: that's not at all what you want 04:28:26 Demosthenes: you have one delimiter which is ": *" and another which is " {2,}" 04:28:43 Demosthenes: META would make a parser for this pretty easily 04:29:00 minion: meta 04:29:01 meta: A recursive-descent parser as described in in a paper by Henry Baker: Pragmatic Parsing in Common Lisp; or, putting defmacro on steroids (ACM Lisp Pointers, vol. http://www.cliki.net/meta 04:34:46 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 04:36:02 coyo [i=alex@70.254.188.61] has joined #lisp 04:54:16 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 04:54:16 04:54:16 -!- names: ccl-logbot Adamant hohum_ Ralith_ Aisling_ pem_ coyo kleppari lpolzer spradnyesh ASau ia fusss felideon maskd sytse quodlibetor peddie_ redblue sellout impulse32 ayrnieu aja OmniMancer wlr kpreid beelzebug rtoym konr dstatyvka AntiSpamMeta mornfall hdurer_ raptelan jyujin DrForr p_l rsynnott1 michaelw Bucciarati Fade johs fawxtin arbscht fnordus schme jyujin_ tsuru housel frontiers Pepe_ Ginei_Morioka CrazyEddy Draggor EinarDog1in rlonstein 04:54:16 -!- names: hdurer__ ski ecraven metasyntax dfox asksol joast dmm_ luis REPLeffect_ joga Vonunov qidush bdowning literal poet fatalnix1995 cataska meingbg vsync froydnj zbigniew Borbus cmm hadronzo` ianmcorvidae spacebat_ s0ber pixel5 mdj tltstc lnostdal retupmoca KatrinaTheLamia _3b 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has joined #lisp 05:24:32 dylan 05:24:43 until we have dylan we don't have lisp 05:25:23 -!- didi [n=user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:26:27 pfeyz [n=user@76.15.195.230] has joined #lisp 05:29:28 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:30:14 envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 05:30:58 -!- emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:32:43 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 05:33:06 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176313971.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 05:36:04 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 05:39:59 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:46 vng [n=vng@123.20.124.82] has joined #lisp 05:46:55 hello 05:47:55 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:49:07 -!- pfeyz [n=user@76.15.195.230] has left #lisp 05:55:15 -!- maskd [n=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:55:15 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:56:16 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 05:56:16 maskd [n=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has joined #lisp 05:57:15 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:01 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 06:00:15 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 06:01:09 hi all. 06:02:31 I'm curious about the 'delete' function, which to the best of my knowledge removes any occurrences of the first argument from the second argument.. 06:03:40 in the program I'm writing it seems to act this way in some cases, however in other cases it seems to remove only one occurrence of the first argument 06:04:19 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm 06:04:43 ericjames: what is the source of this knowledge you have? 06:04:57 remove also removes, fwiw 06:05:03 the latter case happens when the second argument is a list which contains only multiple instances of the first argument 06:06:24 yeah. the usual mistake 06:06:37 do you expect delete to change your list into NIL somehow? 06:06:47 rahul: yes 06:07:05 an alchemist, I see 06:07:10 heh 06:07:48 excuse me for being ignorant, I'm very new to lisp, and a novice of programming in general. 06:08:04 well, NIL is like 1 or 2 or 5 06:08:09 you can't change 1 into 2 06:08:09 SandGorgon_ [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:08:16 I do really appreciate the criticism though 06:08:23 (except in early versions of fortran...) 06:08:46 ericjames: you need to call remove and delete in the same way 06:09:04 just that one is allowed to mangle its argument into whatever it sees fit 06:09:23 please read the link I posted above for the details 06:10:18 rahul: I guess my question should be, how would I remove all instances of an item in a list, even if the result is an empty list? (I'm reading the link now) 06:10:58 there is only one empty list 06:11:08 you can't change an existing list into it 06:11:22 you can't change the identity of any object, in general 06:14:08 hmm. what happens, then, when the last remaining item of a list is deleted? 06:14:21 nothing 06:14:47 have you tried running such a delete invocation at the REPL? 06:16:46 I haven't 06:17:00 maybe you should 06:17:22 thanks. 06:18:44 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 06:19:01 sayyestolife [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 06:19:06 hello 06:19:08 anyone here? :) 06:19:18 rahul: (setq *bar* (delete 'foo '(foo foo))) returns NIL as I had expected it should, though there must be some difference between this statement and my program. 06:19:50 ericjames: right. what do you do with the result of DELETE? 06:19:53 Anyway, I'm wondering how can I setf where I have symbol in a list, like this "(setf (first '(a b)) 666)"? 06:19:59 DylanJ [n=QQ@unaffiliated/dylanj] has joined #lisp 06:20:15 sayyestolife: like that 06:20:16 setq it to *bar* 06:20:47 sayyestolife: a list (and more generally, a cons cell) can have anything in it 06:21:08 ah, I meant that I want to set the global variable a to 666 06:21:33 sayyestolife: usually that's a bad idea, but you can setf the symbol-value 06:21:45 how? 06:21:56 same way you setf'd the first of that list 06:22:10 except in this case you're setf'ing the symbol value of a symbol 06:22:48 yea, sure but how do I access the symbol value? 06:23:15 with symbol-value 06:23:16 heh 06:23:19 clhs symbol-value 06:23:32 specbot clhs symbol-value 06:23:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_symb_5.htm 06:23:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_symb_5.htm 06:23:41 cheers! 06:23:58 hmm, I'm going to change my bedsheets 06:24:42 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:24:43 Is it possible to get cl-sdl and clisp working together? 06:26:09 ericjames pasted "understanding delete" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89541 06:27:51 Axius [n=ojof@92.82.77.227] has joined #lisp 06:27:55 rahul: I'm afraid I'm not understanding where the problem is occurring. 06:28:18 crink [n=crink@unaffiliated/crink] has joined #lisp 06:28:31 If I enter some input, like 'gender' then 'male female male' 06:28:46 gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 06:28:53 male is only counted once (which is the desired result) 06:29:30 however if I instead enter 'female male male', male will counted twice 06:30:00 is it obvious where I've introduced this problem. 06:30:23 ~ 06:30:28 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-83-80.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 06:30:53 btw, this is my first attempt at coding in lisp so any advice is greatly appreciated 06:31:33 how are you learning lisp? 06:31:40 minion: pcl 06:31:41 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 06:32:35 -!- beelzebug [n=beelzebu@24-107-56-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:32:58 thanks, I've been reading Successful Lisp: How to Understand and Use Common Lisp 06:33:23 beelzebug [n=beelzebu@24-107-56-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:35:03 Good morning! 06:35:29 ericjames: that book is ok, but I'm not sure it presents things that clearly 06:35:37 morning beach! 06:36:37 ericjames: When you submit code, make sure it is properly indented. 06:37:01 beach: sry, I'm learning (-_-); 06:37:10 delYsid` [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 06:37:22 ericjames: It's not hard. Just hit TAB. 06:37:31 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:37:33 proq` [n=user@71-20-201-84.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:49 -!- maskd [n=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-83-80.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.251.188] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mogscskplpbsykxm] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-112.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@tmo-100-98.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- bartiosze [i=bartiosz@nintendos.pl] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- acieroid [n=acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- delYsid [n=user@debian/developer/mlang] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- Douglish [n=dal@horinek.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- eihrul [n=eihrul@ip72-193-224-224.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- cow-orker [n=foobar@pogostick.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- hoeq^ [n=hoeq@213-65-76-219-no91.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- itze [n=itze@77-22-106-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- pok [i=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- robewald [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- krappie [n=brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:37:49 -!- easyE [i=[muHYjQF@panix3.panix.com] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:38:09 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:38:26 ericjames: are you trying to implement remove-duplicates? 06:38:30 ericjames: You also have some significant code duplication. 06:38:51 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.82.77.227] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:38:59 beach: are you referring to my paste bin? I did use tabs, just not properly apparently. 06:39:10 rahul: yes, exatly. 06:39:17 no, he means hit the tab key, not insert tabs :) 06:39:33 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-112.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:39:38 ericjames: You are not supposed to enter the tabs, but hit the TAB key, which is bound to a function that will indent your code properly. 06:39:39 the tab key in a properly configured editor should indent _correctly_ 06:39:50 dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #lisp 06:39:52 Douglish [i=dal@horinek.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:03 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@tmo-100-98.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 06:40:04 if you don't use emacs, you should emulate the way emacs does lisp indentation 06:40:06 rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 06:40:06 hoeq [n=hoeq@213-65-76-219-no91.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 06:40:20 Oh, I didn't consider that possibility :) 06:40:27 beach: the duplicate code is a concern, I planned to ask some questions about this after i resolve this functional issue. 06:40:50 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 06:40:50 i find 06:40:51 acieroid [n=acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 06:40:51 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 06:40:51 ericjames: OK, so what is the function gener supposed to do? 06:40:54 robewald [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:54 pok [i=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 06:40:54 cow-orker [n=foobar@pogostick.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:56 Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has joined #lisp 06:41:03 beach: my editor doesn't indent lisp for me :-\ 06:41:22 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 06:41:25 proper indentation behavior is one of the most important things in an editor, i have lately become to notice 06:41:27 ericjames: Change your editor. It will save you a lot of time (and us too, if you are going to submit code). 06:41:30 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:41:43 beach: it is supposed to modify the list *gender* to contain elements entered by the user 06:41:52 lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 06:41:55 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:00 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-83-80.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 06:42:17 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:17 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 06:42:27 -!- proq` is now known as proq 06:42:33 ericjames: I think you will be better served by PCL 06:42:34 and count the number of times an element has been entered (but ignore duplicates if an element is entered multiple times in one read-line) 06:42:45 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:49 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:42:54 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wmvazpeiaqibuqwa] has joined #lisp 06:43:00 ericjames: You seem to use setq a lot. That's not very good style, especially since variables such as g are not defined. That behevior is undefined. 06:43:01 rahul: I'm looking at pcl now, thanks 06:43:04 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 06:43:30 eihrul [n=eihrul@ip72-193-224-224.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:49 beach: i had the impression that setq defined 'g' 06:44:18 No, it does not. It assigns to it. 06:44:29 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:13 rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-164-111.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has joined #lisp 06:45:49 setq sets, it does not define 06:46:15 what setq does when a variable is undefined is unspecified. different implementations do different things 06:46:23 okay. so I should use defvar? 06:46:30 maskd [n=maskd@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe59:ad66] has joined #lisp 06:46:32 if you want to define a global variable 06:46:41 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.251.188] has joined #lisp 06:47:01 then I'm free to use setq after defining 'g' 06:47:17 sure... but that variable is shared across all functions 06:47:37 any functions that call yours and any funcitons that yours calls may modify the value of that variable 06:47:45 and you will see the effects 06:47:58 really a local variable would be preferable, but the primary issue I'm having now involves the delete function. 06:48:33 LET defines local variables, with scope that is restricted to the body of the LET 06:48:47 did you see my messages about the difference in input? 06:48:54 ericjames: It is very hard to follow your code because it is so un-idiomatic, for instance mixing calls to I/O and other processing (in the functions gender and race). When you write program, make sure you write small functions that are sufficiently specialized that you can give them a name that reflects what they do. 06:49:07 (you can also use LET to shadow global variables inside the execution of the body) 06:49:46 yeah, I was also going to comment that the command loop should be separate 06:50:14 yes, I had used let, but ran into some trouble with the scope later so I just used a global. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed right now.. please realize that I have been using lisp for less than 48 hours 06:50:33 ericjames: You see, you think the primary issue is with the delete function, but it is nearly impossible to help you with that, because we have to count parentheses (given that the code is not indented properly) and try to understand code that nobody would reasonably write in the first place. So you are much better off trying to fix those problems first, and *then* ask for help. 06:50:35 I do appreciate all of the advice 06:50:41 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:50:41 ericjames: then write small, simple functions that do things you can describe clearly 06:51:16 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:17 what you're asking for is a band-aid when you're having a stroke 06:51:36 we'll deal with the bleeding in your finger when we get the stroke under control :) 06:51:52 okay :) 06:52:16 thanks again for the hospitality 06:53:31 One problem I can think of would be that you modify g while looping over the items in it. 06:54:19 -!- SandGorgon_ [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:54:29 so, I'll try to walk through each step and we can talk about it as I go. this should keep me from becoming overwhelmed. 06:54:32 ericjames: What does that loop do anyway? The (dolist (item g) ...) 06:55:14 ericjames: your code should resemble that description 06:55:45 ericjames: One part of gender and race seems to split up a string into interned symbols, right? 06:55:52 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 06:55:58 beach: the loop increments values in the list 06:56:02 pfeyz [n=user@76.15.195.230] has joined #lisp 06:56:19 ericjames: That just isn't a detailed enough description. 06:56:22 yes, it takes input from read-line and splits it by spaces 06:56:46 ericjames: OK, so break that code out into a separate function and give it a name. 06:56:52 yeah, you're asking several questions though, i';m trying to answer 06:56:56 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:56:59 ericjames: Sure, sorry. 06:57:32 -!- poet [n=poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit ["leaving"] 06:57:38 *gender* contains items and numerical values like this: 06:57:43 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 06:57:44 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 06:57:50 ((male 3)(female 2)) 06:58:21 and the first do loop finds occurrences of the user input in the gender list 06:58:32 then increments the corresponding numerical value 06:59:01 dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:59:02 the second loop adds new elements to *gender* if the first loop didn't find a match 06:59:44 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 06:59:59 I think I should start with the admin function (as this is where the program starts). 07:00:37 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp051.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:00:48 I see, and you may have several occurences of one gender in the input? 07:01:08 so line 72 calls the admin function with input from the user. a case statement inside admin decides what the user is trying to do. 07:01:32 usually, you should define the core functions of your application 07:01:59 and then you can add user interaction on top, once you've decided on the functions that make sense 07:02:42 and that keeps the two concerns separate. you can make a program be CLI and GUI and Web pretty trivially if you do this right 07:02:56 ericjames: So if the input contains female male male, do you want to add 2 to the number of occurences of `male'? 07:03:08 beach: no 07:03:19 ericjames: Just one? 07:03:24 yes 07:03:33 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:03:38 ericjames: Then start by doing a (remove-duplicates g). 07:03:38 that's what I was originaly asking 07:03:48 before you loop over it. 07:04:00 okay, thanks. 07:04:28 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 07:04:33 ericjames: And then, you are much better off using a hash table for the dictionary. 07:05:52 ericjames: something like (loop for item in (remove-duplicates items) do (incf (gethash item *genders* 0))) 07:06:24 -!- vng [n=vng@123.20.124.82] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:07:50 (remove-duplicates g) doesn't seem to be working.. 07:08:32 ericjames: Or if you insist on using association lists, don't loop over the items yourself, but use assoc. (let ((record (assoc item *genders))) (if (null record) (push (list item 0) *genders*) (incf (cadr record)))) or something like that. 07:08:36 (remove-duplicates '(male female male)) 07:08:37 no error, but if I print the list after '(remove-duplicates g)' i see that it's uneffected 07:08:58 ericjames: You have to use the return value. 07:08:58 clhs remove-duplicates 07:09:10 ah, yes. sorry 07:09:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_dup.htm 07:09:30 ericjames: most of lisp is not based on modifying variables, but giving you modifications of what a function is passed 07:09:52 ericjames: after all, your local variables are not visible to the function you are calling (nor should they be!) 07:10:27 and you may need the original value for other purposes, too. 07:10:43 ericjames: OK, I think you have enough information to keep you busy for a while: Indent correctly, define your variables, split your code into independent functions, separate I/O and non-I/O, etc. Feel free to submit your code again when you have fixed those problems. 07:11:18 ericjames: Oh, and learn to use an editor that indents for you. 07:11:27 beach: and you forgot get a proper editor 07:11:35 right. 07:11:40 oops. no you didn't ;-) 07:11:59 well, indenting correctly is the important thing 07:12:11 getting an editor that does it for you is the easy way to do that :) 07:12:22 thanks again. I'll come back when I've fixed these problems. 07:12:25 "We can do this the hard way, or the easy way" 07:13:17 rahul: I don't agree. If the reader thinks the code has been manually indented, he or she has to count parentheses, which is too much to ask. 07:15:22 beach: not if the person manually indents correctly every time... which is exceptionally hard 07:15:56 rahul: sure. 07:16:39 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 07:17:03 (I wouldn't trust myself to do it, fwiw) 07:20:38 -!- pfeyz [n=user@76.15.195.230] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 07:21:08 -!- crink [n=crink@unaffiliated/crink] has left #lisp 07:23:55 serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06f655.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:59 good morning 07:24:02 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:24:27 whatever, your new name is Morty Seinfeld 07:24:56 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 07:25:38 -!- Spaghettini [n=Paprika@vaxjo4.186.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:29:59 nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 07:30:02 -!- skeptomai|away [n=nnnnnnnc@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Getting off stoned server - dircproxy 1.2.0"] 07:30:22 skeptomai|away [n=nnnnnnnn@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:32 hello serichsen 07:43:58 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 07:44:03 bartiosze [i=bartiosz@nintendos.pl] has joined #lisp 07:45:02 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.54.174] has joined #lisp 07:46:31 levy [n=levy@apn-94-44-7-91.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 07:47:03 -!- gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [] 07:49:33 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:49:34 -!- beelzebug [n=beelzebu@24-107-56-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [] 07:49:43 good morning 07:51:14 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Client Quit] 07:51:46 hello mvilleneuve 07:52:44 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 07:59:23 ans [n=ans@user82.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:27 -!- ans [n=ans@user82.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has left #lisp 08:00:36 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Client Quit] 08:01:24 ksp11 [n=ksp11@f053040235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:07:44 lispm [n=joswig@e177126115.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:09:17 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:09:19 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-61-90-83-80.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:14:22 -!- literal [n=hinrik@u.nix.is] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:14:27 literal [n=hinrik@u.nix.is] has joined #lisp 08:15:06 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-0-13.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:15:36 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:05 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:19:33 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-64-75.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:20:07 ASau [n=user@77.246.230.247] has joined #lisp 08:24:30 hm, 1.0.32.4 has some trouble building and amd64 here .. going to do a clean and make sure i haven't done anything silly :P 08:25:46 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:26:31 -!- quodlibetor [n=user@ool-4570c6ff.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:26:47 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 08:27:05 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 08:28:58 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:29:53 howdy 08:33:42 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:33:54 deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 08:33:55 Hi guys! 08:33:56 easyE [i=[D2nS1EE@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:56 krappie [n=brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 08:35:00 slather [n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has joined #lisp 08:35:20 is Pedro Kröger in this channel by any chance? 08:36:17 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:37:08 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 08:37:16 good morning 08:37:33 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:40:22 -!- levy [n=levy@apn-94-44-7-91.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 08:41:20 (..ignore me; doing a 'clean' seems to have helped..) 08:45:35 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:46:19 Grue` [n=grue@masq.snto-msu.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:43 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 08:48:52 holycow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 08:52:48 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:53:30 I just discovered that the most recent asdf.lisp is twice as long as the one I was using (dated from 2005)... 08:53:31 redblue [i=star@ppp058.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 08:54:57 Grue`: asdf-binary-locations has been merged into asdf 08:55:22 2005 -- at that time i was a java monkey 08:56:37 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:57:16 I was going to complain the newest CCL doesnt work with ASDF, but it seems it just doesn't work with the extremely outdated version I was using 08:58:29 Has anyone ever thought of a good way to integrate SBCL's derive-result-type-from-argument-type into CL's type system? 09:02:59 -!- kami- is now known as kami 09:04:25 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 09:11:43 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:32 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:13:31 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-31-198.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:16:50 -!- delYsid` is now known as delYsid 09:18:36 -!- kami [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:19:46 -!- lichtblau [n=user@92.195.70.58] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:22:16 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-31-198.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:23:36 Axius [n=ojof@92.84.8.9] has joined #lisp 09:24:42 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:25:11 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:45 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 09:26:37 Grue`: ccl bundles asdf 09:32:24 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 09:33:53 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229242144.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:56 serichse` [n=user@hmbg-4d06cd15.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:35 OK, why does FiveAM give me a warning whenever I recompile a file containing fixture definitions? 09:37:49 It is annoying because it interrupts the compilation. 09:38:19 is it possible to have e.g. LOG return double floats instead of single floats? 09:38:30 -!- serichse` is now known as serichsen` 09:39:17 run it with double float argument? 09:40:27 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:40:39 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.84.8.9] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:42:17 beach: stefil is much more fun than 5am (it was born after using/patching 5am for a year). and i would fix stefil issues you reported here... but of course i'm badly biased... :) 09:42:47 attila_lendvai: I might consider that. 09:43:47 beach: with stefil you get instrumented defun's that you can call from the repl and return (values stefil-context-with-loads-of-info original-return-values...) 09:44:40 also of notable feature that all the assertion macros work without stefil's context, in which case they print to *debug-io* for easy copy-pasting forms from tests to repl... 09:44:42 Grue`: yeah, ok, but there is no *default-float-return-type* or something like that? 09:44:57 attila_lendvai: I am not sure in what way that is good. 09:45:07 -!- cataska [n=cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit ["leaving"] 09:45:13 beach: *debug-io*? 09:45:37 serichsen`: Make sure that your input is double-floats. Look at *read-default-float-format* 09:45:54 attila_lendvai: The features you are describing. 09:46:10 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:46:11 attila_lendvai: Your descriptions do not make sense for someone who has not used Stefil. 09:46:29 That must be my problem :) Thanks tcr! 09:47:04 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:47:17 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:47:50 well, my brain must be too poisoned with the idea to describe it well... 09:47:50 Guthur [n=Michael@host86-140-191-199.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:47:53 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:47:56 fjji [n=ojof@92.84.8.9] has joined #lisp 09:48:09 -!- fjji [n=ojof@92.84.8.9] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:48:56 beach: this might help a *little* http://common-lisp.net/project/stefil/demo.html 09:50:08 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06f655.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:50:19 kami [n=user@p5B20FF89.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:30 attila_lendvai: i had a little bother installing xmls last night, a UTF-8 encoding thing, apparently there is solutions though i just loaded the source manually in the end 09:51:30 also is there a reasoning behind NIL appearing after each item in the list produced by parse? 09:51:32 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:52:56 fjji [n=ojof@92.84.8.9] has joined #lisp 09:53:43 Guthur: you mix me up with someone i guess, i suggest using cxml, mostly with my flexml: http://www.google.com/search?q=flexml+site%3Acommon-lisp.net%2Fpipermail%2Fcxml-devel%2F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a 09:54:10 in my experience parsing xml into sexps is only practical for simple models 09:54:16 -!- fjji [n=ojof@92.84.8.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:54:18 umm serious? it was your name on the website 09:54:29 maybe its just similar 09:54:36 which website? 09:55:18 lol i think i mixed up websites 09:55:19 sorry 09:55:22 anyways, cxml works for me very well, deals with character encoding, namespaces, dtd, etc 09:55:48 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:55:49 it was the serializer, right? 09:55:57 that you worked on 09:56:23 -!- ksp11 [n=ksp11@f053040235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:56:39 sorry it was late and i was looking at both 09:57:19 i am involved in cl-serializer, although it's mostly levy's work. also recommended, but i'm biased of course... :) 09:57:20 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 09:57:54 i am only using xml for convenience at the moment, i can create the files by hand at this early stage, I'm considering moving to a serializer later 09:58:36 cl-serializer was one i was checking out, will probably give it a spin 09:58:46 attila_lendvai: Thanks, I'll have a look at it later. Right now I am debugging my code. 09:59:15 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:00:20 sbt [n=sigurd_t@62.70.2.252] has joined #lisp 10:01:00 ? (make-random-state t) > Error: Can't determine primary IP interface 10:01:02 uhhhh 10:02:42 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:03:20 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:03:25 heh nice 10:03:39 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 10:03:51 Grue`: it probably wants to use the number of recv/sent packets as a source for entropy 10:04:20 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 10:05:27 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6D3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:57 -!- envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:13:17 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 10:13:53 Axius [n=ojof@92.84.8.9] has joined #lisp 10:13:59 attila_lendvai: http://dwim.hu/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=sbcl;a=summary 10:14:13 attila_lendvai: when I click on "Improve frame cleaning ..." I get a 404 10:15:39 demmel [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 10:16:22 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:14 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 10:20:49 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 10:21:03 nyquist [n=quassel@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 10:21:41 tcr: i know, the cgi stuff needs a little cleanup 10:21:56 tcr: until it's fixed, you can add the missing 'i' from cgi 10:23:00 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.84.8.9] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:24:18 tcr: fixed it with a KLUDGE until i get to the real cleanup 10:24:31 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 10:28:11 *attila_lendvai* curses on his emacs freezing completely 10:29:47 weird, find /usr/local/lib/sbcl -name *.fasl -print doesn't seem to work 10:30:14 i was hoping to change that -print to -exec { rm -rf } \; now that i have upgraded to 1.0.32 10:30:15 fusss: "*.fasl" ? 10:30:44 gaah, yes, of course. thank attila_lendvai 10:31:20 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:32:14 -!- Grue` [n=grue@masq.snto-msu.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:33:06 lichtblau [n=user@77-22-106-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:33:15 Grue` [n=grue@masq.snto-msu.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:54 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.251.188] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:34:08 jdz pasted "cleaning fasls" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89544 10:34:21 i use this script to remove fasls 10:34:51 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:37:41 Guthur: i found a site with a bunch of CXML examples 10:41:01 fusss linky 10:41:20 looking for it in my browser tabs 10:41:33 http://rosettacode.org/wiki/XML_Reading#Common_Lisp 10:41:48 it's a wiki of code examples, navigate around and explore 10:42:37 fusss cheers 10:49:00 bah, there's no #Common_lisp on http://rosettacode.org/wiki/XML_and_XPath 10:50:23 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.197.123] has joined #lisp 10:51:16 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:53:50 joswig [n=joswig@e177153157.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:53:55 Hm seems like sbcl does not really store source-location information for eql-specializing methods 10:56:42 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:58:15 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:00:19 No that's not quite right 11:00:29 Could it be that ASDF only LOADs .asd files? 11:02:03 tcr: most probably, because i've not seen fasl's from .asd's anywhere 11:04:09 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177126115.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:08:55 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-100-54.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:09:27 Willem [n=user@g225100110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:10:01 kami` [n=user@p5B20FF75.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:10 -!- Willem [n=user@g225100110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:11:33 metawilm [n=user@g225100110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:12:07 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:13:48 the :null thing in postmodern seems very wrong 11:15:42 nil would be much more wrong 11:16:23 yeah, why not just let it be unbound? 11:16:36 haha 11:16:44 where have I heard this before? 11:17:16 things don't make sense when extending the postmodern metaclasses 11:17:21 ..because of this stuff 11:17:38 MOP already provides methods that allow one to deal with unboundness 11:17:48 well, i was talking about the lower layer, cl-postgres... i don't know much about the higher ones 11:17:51 ..and control it and what-not 11:17:59 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:18:08 Xof: Any idea on the method name bit? 11:18:12 ok, you skipped those parts for your db-stuff, attila_lendvai ? 11:18:34 what method name bit? 11:18:44 -!- sbt [n=sigurd_t@62.70.2.252] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:18:54 I guess you haven't read my reply yet 11:19:55 tcr annotated #89529 "who-specializes-directly/generally" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89529#1 11:20:23 lnostdal: we wrote hu.dwim.rdbms after struggling with clsql for a while. it only uses the lowlevel network protocol layer... 11:20:41 sbt [n=sigurd_t@62.70.2.252] has joined #lisp 11:20:58 or cl-rdbms on its former name 11:22:28 right, attila_lendvai 11:24:26 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:24:42 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:24:52 -!- kami [n=user@p5B20FF89.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:27:41 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-18-130.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 11:30:44 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 11:33:00 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6D3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 11:36:50 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:38:27 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:39:04 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:41:07 -!- nyquist [n=quassel@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:46:15 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 11:46:46 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wmvazpeiaqibuqwa] has left #lisp 11:49:05 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:49:33 hunchentoot question: different browser tabs and windows correspond to different sessions, right? 11:49:33 rlarson89 [n=rlarson8@CPE001cdf73661f-CM001ceacec55e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:33 nunb i would assume they could share the same session data, the server only sees requests 11:52:27 nunb, no they share the session as long as they're in the same browser 11:52:27 Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 11:53:46 nunb: the only way *not* to share the session is if you add something to the url. in wui we have sessions and frames, frame-id goes into the url, session-id in a cookie 11:54:08 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:56:09 *attila_lendvai* has way too many starred mails... and of those with the red star... 11:56:28 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:59:02 *Xof* edits some >10-year-old sbcl comments 12:00:56 a deftest in sb-introspect expects that the cwd is contrib/sb-introspect which is true for make-target-contribs.sh but not for (asdf:oos 'asdf:test-op) 12:01:39 Should I bind *default-pathname-defaults* to *load-pathname* / *compile-pathname*? 12:01:59 in the perform methods 12:02:19 lpolzer, thanks, I had thought root-composite was unique in each browser tab. 12:02:26 -!- lichtblau [n=user@77-22-106-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:03:04 nunb, I've tried to do this trick in weblocks' rsh history branch 12:03:34 nunb, there every *history state* has its own copy of the widget tree 12:03:42 lpolzer, will take a look. 12:03:55 nunb, it's not usable yet, though 12:04:37 (let ((*default-pathname-defaults* (make-pathname :directory '(:relative :up) :defaults (or *load-pathname* *compile-file-pathname*)))) ...) 12:04:40 Is this kosher? 12:04:55 alt. was hashing by widget's dom-id, but they're the same in different URL's. The DOM starts at div id=root, so had assumed that was the same as root-composite. Guess it's not. 12:05:18 Probably have to put in #. before the *load-pathname* and *compile-file-pathname* 12:05:28 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:05:32 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 12:05:46 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:06:45 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 12:07:08 nunb, I've moved this to #weblocks 12:07:38 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:56 can anyone show me some good applications of load-time-value? 12:11:05 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:11:48 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:57 lichtblau [n=user@77-22-106-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:18:59 udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-nbotqgfdbgdbeftk] has joined #lisp 12:19:33 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B19F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:09 amaron [n=amaron@cable-89-216-178-166.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:20:37 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:20:53 lisp doesn't really have a switch equivalent, does it? 12:21:09 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:21:40 Guthur: cond is kind of like case 12:21:46 IIRC 12:21:49 cond would be like switch with fall through, 12:22:22 drewc ? 12:23:22 don't confuse COND with CASE here. 12:23:33 "switch" is like CASE. "if ... else if ... else if" is like COND. 12:24:13 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:24:26 The lack of fall through is probably intentional. 12:26:40 ah yes case is what i am looking for, thanks lichtblau, and ya i was confusing things 12:27:51 -!- REPLeffect_ [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:28:14 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440880.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:29:42 "Amusingly", the Dylan language inherits basically the same macros, but COND is called "case" there (and CASE is called "select"). 12:30:44 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:31:35 took me a while to figure cond, and it still causes a little confuse 12:32:02 moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 12:32:51 Axius [n=ojof@92.84.8.9] has joined #lisp 12:33:56 ziga` [n=user@BSN-142-52-164.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:01 FareWell [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:47 ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-183-4.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:40:10 p0a [n=user@athedsl-378021.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 12:40:18 Hello I want to print a list with format like this 12:40:25 (format t "~{~A~}~%" list) for example. 12:41:11 p0a: ok 12:41:12 p0a: make it so 12:41:42 but 12:42:15 I want to print ~{~D:~A~}, where D is a number that increases by one 12:42:31 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:42:46 -!- ericjames [n=ericjeld@24.144.136.246] has quit [] 12:42:52 don't use format. 12:43:14 okay 12:43:15 where does cffi look for foreign libraries? In 'pwd' by default, but can I set some global option so CFFI would also look into my /usr/lib ? 12:43:31 p0a: (iter (for elt in list) (for i from 0) (format t "~D:~A" i elt)) 12:43:40 ziga:`: LD_LIBRARY_PATH 12:43:41 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-179-68-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:43:46 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-179-68-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:18 lichtblau: but I need to collect a string - I'd have to use CONCATENATE and NIL as a second argument... 12:44:23 and there needs to be omre work for that 12:44:43 *p0a* will just iterate the list twice... 12:44:50 p0a: (with-output-to-string (s) ... (format s ...) ...) 12:45:21 lichtblau: how can I set this from lisp? 12:45:43 lichtblau: and is this unix only? 12:46:31 ziga`: well, there may be a portable in-lisp solution offered by CFFI as an alternative, but I haven't needed it yet. Perhaps others can chime in. 12:46:35 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 12:47:02 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:47:04 Heh 12:47:12 (putenv "LD_LIBRARY_PATH" ...) ? 12:47:14 lichtblau: ! I had forgotten that. lisp is awesome 12:47:23 But... there's still a problem. I'l post some code now 12:47:27 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-183.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:47:37 rlb3_ [n=rlb@70-138-117-197.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:45 (Personally I'm not a great friend of fiddling with search paths within the Lisp. That way lies madness. Libraries should be where the system's loaders is looking for them, full stop.) 12:48:15 -!- rlb3_ [n=rlb@70-138-117-197.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:48:20 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:49:22 (defvar *foreign-library-directories* '() 12:49:22 "List onto which user-defined library paths can be pushed.") 12:49:26 I fount it 12:49:33 a variable in cffi package 12:49:55 *lichtblau* needs to write a patch for SBCL that lets it collect loaded .so files into the directory save-lisp-and-die is putting things into, like allegro does. 12:50:10 I'll note that SBCL partakes in the madness by (mis)setting its SBCL_HOME 12:50:29 p0a pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89550 12:50:44 SBCL_HOME was a long headache for me too 12:50:47 The way SBCL records the full pathnames to ~myhome/.../iolibsomething.so and then tries to find things in that location at executable startup is rather annoying. 12:50:58 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-112.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:51:21 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-31-198.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:51:30 -!- gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:51:47 random ideas: sbcl should build so that the final executable is in the root of the sources (and get rid of all those many files from there), and if SBCL_HOME is not defined then take the core from the build dir 12:52:15 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-169-28.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:52:31 attila_lendvai: because ./run-sbcl.sh is too hard? 12:52:32 Fare: fyi, i've kludge-fixed the gitweb stuff at dwim.hu 12:53:25 kluge-fixed??? 12:53:45 Xach: yes. it breaks in too many ways, like processing --help, etc... i consider run-sbcl.sh as an easy KLUDGE to postpone my suggestion 12:53:48 anyone looked at my paste? 12:53:51 Xach: when you dump an image of an application, that's where the SBCL_HOME hurts 12:54:11 IMNSHO, even the "if SBCL_HOME is not defined" should go away 12:54:14 FareWell: need to clean up cgi handling in WUI, it's in more or less a proof of concept state 12:54:26 SBCL is in /usr/local/lib/sbcl but SBCL_HOME is set to /wherever/your/binary/is 12:55:19 yeah, it cannot go away, although it could check a few default locations and _then_ it could go away completely. there's a sanity check for core versions anyway... 12:55:36 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.84.8.9] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:55:36 lpolzer: load-time-value was recently discussed in http://groups.google.nl/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/4ce3b36d5e5e7c2b where i tried to give some useful examples, also for #. 12:55:51 metawilm, great, thank you. 12:56:23 -!- sbt [n=sigurd_t@62.70.2.252] has quit [] 12:56:30 *attila_lendvai* waits until Fare demos xcvb as a build tool for sbcl and cleans up the SBCL_HOME while at it... :) 12:57:25 FareWell: I forget, when would your application reference SBCL_HOME? 12:57:31 *attila_lendvai* notes that hu.dwim.walker is turning into a serious walker as hu.dwim.partial-eval pushes its limits 12:58:27 Xach: for requiring the dependencies of SLIME 12:58:42 sb-introspect, etc. 12:58:43 Xach: when you are building executable images, or working on a build tool like xcvb or our home grown specialized one. but SBCL_HOME is a general headache also when running sbcl inside slime using non-standard cores 12:58:45 FareWell: Oh. I usually include those in applications I save. 12:58:52 (that I admittedly could build into the binary) 12:59:38 (but it feels wrong to add false dependencies to the application) 13:00:15 I'd say that this issue isn't so much about application delivery (a wrapper can be okay in that case), it's more about ordinary development-ish uses of the SBCL executable. 13:00:15 earlier this morning I got the advice of using symbol-value to solve my problem (but that didn't work). My problem is that I have a list of symbols that I'd like to setq/setf. Like "(setq (first '(a b c)) (+ 3 2)) 13:00:26 Arguing that everyone has their own little wrapper script just to get an SBCL repl without getting a core file mismatch is only proving the point that the default behaviour is annoying. 13:00:27 but I guess that's what the "Lisp setup" step of XCVB is fo 13:00:28 Fare: i sent this already, but this is how we do it. look for the word "swank" here: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.build;a=headblob;f=/source/build.lisp#l183 13:00:28 r 13:00:56 but the lisp complains "first '(a b c)" is not a symbol 13:01:14 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp058.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:01:26 -!- demmel [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 13:01:37 sayyestolife: in that case, SET might work. 13:01:55 attila_lendvai, thanks for using command-line-options :) 13:02:01 Fare: set up an examples directory for stuff like a well commented lisp setup stage 13:02:10 IIRC, this all goes back to someone saying on sbcl-devel many years ago something like "oh dear, we'd have to resolve symlinks in that routine; that sounds nontrivial". Not a good reason considering that everyone else does exactly this (soffice, Java, etc) and its works fine. 13:02:17 sayyestolife, use paste.lisp.org 13:02:23 Fare: well, thanks for providing it! it came very handy! 13:02:40 sayyestolife, you might want setf instead of setq 13:03:02 ah yes, i did my own SBCL_HOME hacking for http://xach.livejournal.com/215066.html 13:03:06 setq is only for symbols (including those that are symbol-macros, interestingly -- aaargh) 13:03:21 Axius [n=ojof@92.84.8.9] has joined #lisp 13:08:04 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-100-54.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:10:59 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:13:58 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:15:01 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.84.8.9] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:17:11 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.54.174] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:18:06 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-143-248.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:17 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-36.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 13:24:12 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-246-230.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:25:41 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.251.188] has joined #lisp 13:28:25 -!- sayyestolife [n=jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 13:29:58 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:30:05 -!- lichtblau [n=user@77-22-106-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:30:33 -!- rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-164-111.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has left #lisp 13:37:57 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 13:40:02 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590f8313.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:05 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:29 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229242144.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 13:43:48 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:44:12 ikki [n=ikki@200.95.162.111] has joined #lisp 13:44:50 fjji [n=ojof@92.84.3.1] has joined #lisp 13:45:00 okjjnkof [n=ojof@92.84.3.1] has joined #lisp 13:47:07 -!- okjjnkof [n=ojof@92.84.3.1] has quit [Client Quit] 13:51:19 reid09 [n=reid09@CPE001cdf73661f-CM001ceacec55e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:26 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 13:52:00 KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:07 kami`: i'll forward your patches to levy 13:52:18 the list accepts only up to 40k 13:52:46 -!- reid09 [n=reid09@CPE001cdf73661f-CM001ceacec55e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:52:58 reid09 [n=reid09@CPE001cdf73661f-CM001ceacec55e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:54:17 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:54:21 -!- fjji [n=ojof@92.84.3.1] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:55:27 attila_lendvai: sorry. I'll gzip them, next time. 13:56:01 -!- kami` is now known as kami 13:56:02 attila_lendvai, xcvb itself comes with a "make setup.lisp" target, and no-asdf.lisp as examples 14:01:22 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-31-198.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:01:34 *attila_lendvai* remembers that bootstrapping xcvb failed for him yesterday and retries while Fare is around 14:05:17 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:06:04 (clsql:list-classes) does not list the class I just created with DEF-VIEW-CLASS 14:06:32 I'm playing in clsql-user package 14:06:36 -!- FareWell [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:06:38 Any idea? 14:06:43 caching? 14:07:15 hmmm. Should that affect the creation of classes? 14:07:39 knobo: It might affect the querying of classes. 14:07:50 Just a guess, though. 14:08:26 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has joined #lisp 14:09:17 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:12:28 FareWell [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:38 nope.. 14:15:17 rrice [n=rrice@adsl-76-244-150-49.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:25 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:54 -!- serichsen` is now known as serichsen 14:17:58 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A19C9.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:19:17 fare: is the official asdf git repo ok for xcvb head? i get a failed assert from XCVB-MASTER::PROCESS-MANIFEST-ENTRY 14:19:41 *attila_lendvai* is afk for a few minutes 14:19:46 knobo pasted "create clsql class from function" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89552 14:20:16 benny [n=benny@i577A17D1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:40 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.197.123] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 14:21:04 knobo: there is a typo "db-knind" 14:21:23 as usual :( 14:22:11 but it did not help.. 14:22:43 knobo: what is "scake"? 14:23:46 scale 14:23:55 Axius [n=ojof@92.84.3.1] has joined #lisp 14:24:08 mrm` [n=mmourato@94.41.76.198.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:25:01 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host86-140-191-199.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 14:25:53 well... I used a def-view-class from the documentation, it also did not give me any classes :/ 14:26:04 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 14:26:51 knobo: the ":column name" also looks fishy 14:27:04 knobo: create-view-from-class is perhaps needed. 14:27:11 knobo: def-view-class doesn't side-effect the database 14:27:19 i learned that by reading the manual! 14:27:21 (just now) 14:27:34 But, I don't want to change the database. 14:27:55 knobo: ok, then read the manual for list-classes 14:28:06 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:28:16 LIST-CLASSES  List classes for tables in SQL database.Function 14:28:29 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has joined #lisp 14:28:36 if your table is not in the database, it will not appear as a result from list-classes 14:28:37 I want to generate classes from the database 14:28:52 knobo: by the way, you don't need to specify :column, as it defaults to the slot name 14:29:13 serichsen: gthe column is different then the slot-name 14:29:23 knobo: ok, then i was thinking along the wrong lines. 14:30:02 chupish [i=182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-qqynsbxhmpkljfvf] has joined #lisp 14:30:09 The funtion in my paste runs describe on the table, and generates output that is used in def-view-class 14:30:30 knobo: then you have to fix the ":column name" line in your function, as I don't believe that all slots map to the same column "name" 14:31:05 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 14:31:56 serichsen: done 14:32:25 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:35:39 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.84.3.1] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:36:26 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:38:37 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 14:39:45 -!- kefka [n=user@75.101.205.165] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:40:00 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has quit ["http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."] 14:40:09 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has joined #lisp 14:40:43 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:40:57 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-378021.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 14:45:02 Sikander: Thanks for trying to port the FFT tests. 14:45:03 LiamH, memo from Sikander: I have some working fft stuff for you. It's neither pretty nor complete yet. Which branch do I push to? Locally I'm maintaining a branch fast-fourier-transform. 14:45:21 heh heh, OBE 14:46:06 drgnvale [n=acristin@209.16.73.144] has joined #lisp 14:46:19 -!- drgnvale [n=acristin@209.16.73.144] has left #lisp 14:48:43 Axius [n=ojof@92.84.3.1] has joined #lisp 14:49:46 Xach, zpb-exif, does it allow to modify exif values? 14:50:58 ok, seem it doesn't 14:52:07 varjag: I have 80% of a writer written, but I lost enthusiasm. 14:52:22 Could be a upcase problem... 14:52:54 *Xof* adds more sbcl10 participants 14:53:26 i see 14:53:32 yrk [n=yrk@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 14:53:45 lpolzer: ping 14:53:53 yrk, pong 14:54:10 -!- coyo [i=alex@70.254.188.61] has quit ["May the Coyoes cook you some hot chili some day!"] 14:54:15 are table-names in mysql case sensitive? 14:54:16 was considering to write an exif reader for cl-jpeg, but fortunately googled first 14:54:19 knobo: yes 14:54:33 varjag: glad to help :) 14:54:52 varjag: i was concerned about losing data in uninterpreted parts of the exif data 14:55:09 any lispniks from Prague? 14:55:09 oh 14:55:14 varjag: iirc, there are sometimes pointers within unrecognized data that would break if moved in some way 14:55:35 lpolzer: Could you please lisppaste your version of (defmethod read-term-vector ((self term-vectors-reader) ...) from term-vectors-io.lisp? 14:58:26 lpolzer pasted "montezuma::read-term-vectors" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89554 14:58:34 it's the one from svn trunk 14:58:45 lpolzer: then of course you'll get the error 14:58:54 did I miss something? 14:59:04 lpolzer: the patch with the test doesn't include the patch with the fix 14:59:33 classes does not sho up before I have done (create-view-from-class 'wp-posts), but I can not create tables every time i restart my lisp. I would get an error then (table already exsists) 14:59:38 This is stupid. 14:59:58 let me see... 15:00:18 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.84.3.1] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:00:58 yrk, I've applied read-chars-add-bounds-check.patch and test-fix-carry-over-bug.patch 15:01:08 lpolzer: ok, you're missing one 15:01:10 yrk, I guess I was supposed to apply the original patch as well? 15:01:14 yep 15:01:18 -!- FareWell [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:01:30 my bad. 15:02:25 yrk, while I'm at it, could you send future patches with full paths? as generated by "svn diff" for example 15:03:06 lpolzer: sure. as you see, I'm a patch newbie 15:03:14 demmel [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 15:03:15 no problem at all 15:05:03 trunk passes all tests now, checking in. 15:08:32 Xach, sounds like pain 15:08:43 esp. that reading exif is much more common than writing 15:09:06 just that the jpeg package has both encoder and decoder 15:09:37 maybe it's less of a problem if you create fresh exif data instead of meddling with existing record 15:10:16 hmm, i think http://www.xach.com/lisp/zpb-exif/exif-write.lisp is what i had written. glancing at it, it's hard for me to tell how complete it is. 15:11:00 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:11:33 ok, thanks! 15:15:20 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:15:28 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:54 milanj [n=milan@212.200.194.94] has joined #lisp 15:19:29 lpolzer: great thanks 15:19:56 yrk, you're welcome. I wonder what corner case you'll find next. :) 15:21:07 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 15:22:17 lpolzer: we are putting a lot of Hebrew and soon Chinese into Montezuma so I guess I'll have to find out (whether I like it or not) 15:22:42 what's your project about? 15:23:11 lpolzer: we're helping research students (usually PhD students) organize their work 15:26:06 yrk, is this a public service? 15:27:52 lpolzer: nope. maybe it will be one day though 15:30:16 lpolzer: more probably a different contract will come along and I'll be forced to move on, but I can always hope 15:30:26 yeah 15:31:51 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:32:58 eek! (string-trim " " nil) 15:33:14 that SHOULD be a bug, but it's not 15:33:37 fusss: why? 15:33:47 Ogedei [n=user@e178215126.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:34:04 it's counter intuitive 15:34:18 Not if you know what a string-designator is 15:34:19 i would expect NIL, or even an error, but not "NIL" 15:34:20 you gotta obfuscate it more. 15:34:30 (string-trim " " '()) 15:34:42 there, that looks less intuitive 15:34:50 fusss: (values (coerce nil 'string) (string nil)) 15:35:16 wow! 15:35:46 which NIL are we talking about here, the list or the atom? 15:36:07 the holy trinilty 15:36:11 this hermophrodite polymorphic datum would never cease to amaze me 15:36:29 About both. The COERCE function thinks of NIL as the empty list, and STRING thinks of it as a symbol 15:36:40 -!- yrk [n=yrk@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit ["ERC Version 5.1.2 (CVS) $Revision: 1.809 $ (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:37:29 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 15:39:19 yrk [n=yrk@62.56.255.2] has joined #lisp 15:41:35 p0a [n=user@athedsl-378021.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:41:48 lpolzer: you left the pprint in the SVN trunk 15:42:08 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 15:42:16 Hello how to collect all the non-null values into a list? something like (remove nil (mapcar f list)) 15:42:22 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 15:42:40 yrk, this confirms my suspicions that I'm quite overworked right now. :( 15:42:41 which is pretty elegant by itself but I was wondering if there's a standard solution? 15:42:57 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:43:22 p0a: looks standard to me. 15:43:50 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 15:43:56 mapcan 15:44:01 It is. both (reduce #'f list :from-end t) and (reduce #'f (reverse list)) are standard, but the former is "more standard". 15:44:05 yrk, r421 is up 15:44:16 (mapcan (lambda (x) (list x)) '(1 2 3 nil 4 5)) 15:44:28 or something 15:44:32 smart, thanks. 15:44:36 heh 15:44:58 (coerce (list #\a) 'string) => "a", (coerce nil 'string) => "". That's logical. 15:45:25 sbcl question: my heap is full with simple-array-unsigned-byte-32 objects. how are those used internally? 15:45:39 (and x (list x)), not (list x) 15:45:51 Grue`: right, because then it'd be (NIL). 15:46:01 But nonetheless I understood you 15:48:09 serichsen: I think I should be asking "What is the idiom to do X?". 15:48:19 lpolzer: looks great. thanks. 15:48:47 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:49:32 -!- ikki [n=ikki@200.95.162.111] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:51:01 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-0-13.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit ["..."] 15:53:08 renatinho [n=renato@intra.fercondf.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:53:49 ola boa tarde 15:54:17 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-31-198.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:55:49 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:56:13 oi tessier, tudo bem 15:56:20 err renatinho 15:57:15 OLA 15:57:35 anyone here connected with ucw ? 15:59:08 milanj: I've got a friend working there. Do you need any U.C.W? 15:59:41 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-378021.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 16:00:10 i think drewc uses and works with ucw, michaelw 16:00:17 ups .. i meant milanj 16:00:57 uncommon web, i dont know what is U.C.W 16:02:14 minion: what does UCW mean? 16:02:15 Untraceableness Catarrhine Witjar 16:02:17 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@63.196.107.132] has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:24 hmm, meaby is this usocket related 16:02:50 ME DSECULPE EU SOU FALO PORTUGUES 16:03:08 MORE ENGLISH 16:03:23 NOT BRASIL 16:05:05 sos 16:08:00 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:08:07 Xof: Do you have any opinion on how to best generate a method name for a method object? 16:08:39 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:09:06 what is a method name? 16:10:10 is it something for passing to fdefinition, or something to show to the user? 16:10:22 The latter 16:10:45 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:11:41 TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:03 something like `(method ,(gf-name (method-gf method)) ,@(method-qualifiers method) (mapcar (lambda (s) (unparse-specializer-name s (method-gf method))) (method-specializers method))) 16:12:14 Has anyone used cl-soap much? I'm looking at this library and even really super basic soap calls it has problems on. Kinda curious if others messed with this and ran into similar problems. 16:12:47 TDT: which implementation are you using? 16:12:56 TDT: I did not have any success with cl-soap 16:13:16 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-soap/ <-- using this. 16:13:16 -!- yrk [n=yrk@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit ["ERC Version 5.1.2 (CVS) $Revision: 1.809 $ (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:13:20 mind you, I found that I couldn't get any two soap implementations to interoperate, Lisp or not 16:13:26 which lisp? 16:13:36 cvandusen: sbcl 16:13:37 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:13:55 I couldn't get basic calls to work with ccl 16:14:14 Xof: Yeah, I'll fall back and try it in python to make sure it works..but we got this stuff working in Ruby <-> PHP. Out of being totally curious, I wanted to see if I could get PHP <-> Lisp - where Lisp is the client, only. 16:15:14 Axioplas1_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 16:15:20 I got most of the basic calls to work, but really random issues, and the author didn't export hardly anything so macros are failing quite a bit. Just started putting my functions in his package (cl-soap) then ran into some weird calls from whatever NS1 is. 16:16:02 Hi there. Which CL unit test framework so you guys use. There are a couple out there an I'm wondering which are used frequently. 16:16:55 / so/s do/ 16:17:33 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.254.207] has joined #lisp 16:18:09 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:51 -!- renatinho [n=renato@intra.fercondf.com.br] has left #lisp 16:22:18 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:27:33 why did my emacs modeline package display widget go away? boo. 16:27:34 froydnj, memo from fusss: the rice.edu url is broken. can you move the old stuff to method-combination? 16:27:47 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 16:28:37 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:28:45 TDT: how much does soap suck compared to xml-rpc? 16:29:20 WS-* feels like dead weight; the COM of the web 16:29:36 s/web/net/ 16:30:53 gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 16:31:35 nite 16:31:38 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]"] 16:31:53 kefka [n=user@ec2-75-101-205-165.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:55 argh, cross compiler, why are you not smart enough to open-code (EQL )? 16:33:13 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:33:22 froydnj: package indication should be still there 16:33:48 minion: memo for fusss: SOAP truly sucks when you see RPC model with autogenerated schema... Message model and nicely crafted schema isn't that bad 16:33:48 Remembered. I'll tell fusss when he/she/it next speaks. 16:33:52 -!- chupish [i=182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-qqynsbxhmpkljfvf] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 16:34:09 Xof: Is there something that returns the corresponding method object given a (sb-pcl::fast-method ...) list? I see I can pass is to FDEFINITION but that returns some function-wrapper 16:35:28 tcr: (find-method (fdefinition (second ...)) ...) 16:35:59 froydnj: it should be... keyword should be subtypep eq-comparable-type 16:36:14 kiuma [n=kiuma@net203-182-158.mclink.it] has joined #lisp 16:36:20 Xof: well, disassembly on SB-IMPL::FD-SOUT here says differently 16:37:29 Jabberwockey [n=jens@193.174.12.194] has joined #lisp 16:38:01 so it does 16:38:07 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:56 hrm, if I compile a simple case with a keyword key using after-xc.core, it compiles down to IF-EQ 16:41:05 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 16:42:00 nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:13 Hello all. 16:42:41 hi. Thanks for your comment on bug #316323 16:44:31 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-115-178.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 16:44:32 Xof: No problem. 16:46:11 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:13 stassats: well, it *should*, but it isn't 16:51:24 gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:59 Can anyone point out an advantage of fiveam over stefil? It seems to me stefil covers all of fiveam and in addition gives you a more interactive way to debug your failed tests (whenever you want that). I'm trying to decide which test framework to adapt 16:53:36 Success! Managed to run Hunchentoot on CCL on Windows! 16:54:19 -!- ejs [n=eugen@170-4-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:55:24 froydnj: what slime version? 16:55:30 Good evening! 16:56:03 stassats: I think he talks about the mouse-over popup 16:56:08 stassats: not sure. slime-protocol-version is 2009-05-01 16:56:34 tcr: no, I mean the modeline display, e.g. [SB!IMPL, sbcl] 16:56:44 lichtblau [n=user@77-22-106-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:56:56 do you have slime-repl contrib loaded? 16:57:12 with (slime-setup '(slime-repl)) or (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 16:57:54 yes, I have slime-repl loaded 16:58:03 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:58:09 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:58:23 well, i don't know about 05-01, but it works now 17:00:37 froydnj: 17:00:39 ; Undefined type: 17:00:39 ; SB!C::EQ-COMPARABLE-TYPE 17:01:32 try changing the deftype in src/compiler/srctran to def!type 17:02:28 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@tmo-100-98.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:03:32 -!- hadronzo` [n=user@ppp-70-251-67-83.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:04:11 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.221.203] has joined #lisp 17:04:12 (because someone other than me needs to commit in the 1.0.32.x series) 17:05:59 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:06:12 -!- bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:06:47 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:27 ejs [n=eugen@241-36-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:29 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:07:53 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:08:08 attila: you might need to rebuild from asdf 17:08:27 attila: or from the released' xcvb.mk 17:08:51 I think I did some backwards-incompatible changes in xcvb that might or might not be affecting you 17:09:07 xcvb-master definitely had incompatible changes of late (for the better) 17:10:04 things will get "interesting" when I release a v1 and have to preserve backwards compatibility 17:10:34 Xof: ah, much better 17:11:01 maybe that will make up for all the external-format-related slowdown I am amount to introduce 17:11:25 -!- nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:11:45 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:12:07 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:10 e-f-related slowdown? 17:12:33 Xof: I doubt it ;) 17:12:45 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.230.247] has quit ["off"] 17:12:55 Fare: don't worry, I haven't actually measured any slowdown 17:12:58 drgnvale [n=acristin@209.16.73.144] has joined #lisp 17:13:01 -!- drgnvale [n=acristin@209.16.73.144] has left #lisp 17:13:09 (the astute will note that that statement should not actually reassure anyone) 17:14:05 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6D3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:38 -!- thatdavidmiller [n=__david_@87-194-167-91.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:17:49 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 17:18:06 bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:18:37 -!- gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:20:02 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:55 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:12 ILC in Tokyo, interesting idea 17:23:20 -!- Ralith_ [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:23:44 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bovsjsdddpzffios] has joined #lisp 17:24:09 I'll go! 17:24:30 joswig: when? 17:24:54 a proposal, http://www.alu.org/pipermail/alu-discuss/2009-October/000004.html 17:24:54 *p_l* wants to go to Japan for a long time, only it would take a lot of funding :/ 17:25:38 milaz [n=milaz@77.106.223.233] has joined #lisp 17:26:03 nice. It would be next year, right? 17:26:11 depends 17:26:33 02 03 05 07 09 17:26:57 so 2010 or 2011 would be fine 17:27:17 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host63.190-137-242.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:27:21 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-52-241.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:59 so a week Tokyo with the ILC and then a week Kyoto? 17:28:29 joswig: exactly what I was thinking; one week for the conference, one for sightseeing 17:30:04 -!- mrm` [n=mmourato@94.41.76.198.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has left #lisp 17:30:10 *Xach* can't wait for ILC 2015 on the moooon 17:30:11 joswig: interesting proposition 17:30:28 joswig: though I would have to arrange some extra time to visit Tsukuba ;) 17:30:36 Xach: s/2015/2095/ 17:30:40 looks like a long flight 17:30:41 Xach: Some carbon footprint that would be. 17:31:10 beach: more like water footprint... 17:31:11 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:31:46 Group rates at the Luna Hilton 17:31:58 powertoy [n=powertoy@88.238.41.183] has joined #lisp 17:32:43 the moon and tokyo are equally convenient for me 17:32:49 after asdf:load-op bordeaux-threads gives this warning: Either there is no Bordeaux-threads support for your implementation, or your implementation does not support threads therefore some features may not work. Feel free to implement it, or bug one of the maintainers to do so if your lisp supports threads at all. 17:32:52 cvandusen: nah, the true hardcore programmers sleep in short burst in spacesuits while coding :P 17:33:20 josemanuel [n=josemanu@54.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:33:24 p_l: true dat 17:33:27 I use 1.0.29 prebuild binary from sbcl site 17:33:35 any idea? 17:33:58 you have to recompile it manually with threads enabled 17:34:15 powertoy: rebuild from source with threads enabled; see base-target-features.lisp-expr for instructions on how to do that. 17:34:44 or if you're not going to use the most recent SBCL version anyway, grab one of the thread-enabled binaries. 17:34:44 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-143-248.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:35:00 I'm suprised to hear that this particular version doesn't have sb-thread compiled in. The Linux binaries usually have it. 17:35:14 me too :) 17:35:24 coffee is life. 17:35:48 it won't work on 2.4 with threads, but you can easily compile threads with it for yourself 17:36:27 when I release, I compile with default options 17:37:05 (I also don't optimize for binary-downloader-convenience, preferring to optimize for rebuilds from source) 17:39:20 jsnell: Are you here? 17:39:55 hmm, i googled and it seems that binaries had thread support as defauld until this release: "sbcl-1.0.29-x86-linux binary release has thread support turned off while sbcl-1.0.28-x86-linux and earlier versions include thread support." 17:40:36 seangrove [n=user@adsl-71-135-126-117.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:20 oh, well, google 17:41:25 -!- holycow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:41:42 -!- joswig [n=joswig@e177153157.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 17:43:57 -!- powertoy [n=powertoy@88.238.41.183] has left #lisp 17:44:58 So it seems that it's my down-key who's the first to be weared down 17:45:06 -!- udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-nbotqgfdbgdbeftk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:45:19 udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-tlzqopobpcrjyyar] has joined #lisp 17:46:01 Does anyone actually C-n etc in Emacs? 17:46:04 +use 17:46:15 tcr: I use it. 17:46:16 i use 17:46:19 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:46:28 never use the down-arrow though 17:46:30 me does 17:46:43 C-f and C-b too? 17:46:45 my caps lock key looks most worn out 17:46:48 tcr: yup 17:46:52 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-112.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 17:46:53 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:46:57 aye 17:46:58 M-f M-b more often 17:47:09 tcr: I don't like moving my hands away from their position (: 17:47:13 I hate having to change habits :( 17:47:25 always and only. C-v, M-v, etc, too. C-h rather than backspace. 17:47:26 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:47:36 although, I have a HHKB Lite and use the Fn keys to move around, as well 17:47:40 oh yeah. C-h too 17:48:05 (I'm looking forward to having Hemlock users contribute patches to make PgUp and cursor keys and that kind of stuff work.) 17:49:05 _mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:49:06 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@130.226.70.177] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:49:39 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-fhnqcsnhnhalnqsi] has joined #lisp 17:50:53 -!- udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-tlzqopobpcrjyyar] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:52:21 you guys are hardcore 17:52:27 *Xof* uses arrow keys 17:52:36 mind you, I don't use paredit either 17:52:43 so don't take my advice 17:53:11 Taggnostr2 [n=x@dyn57-11.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 17:53:11 Softie. 17:53:18 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 17:54:34 -!- ziga` [n=user@BSN-142-52-164.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:55:00 Hey Xach! Could you hack planet.sbcl so #nnnnnnn will turn into a link to launchpad? 17:55:01 tcr: I use C-p and C-n sometimes 17:55:42 antifuchs: C-s and C-r otherwise? 17:56:01 serichsen: remnants of my using a touchstream keyboard 17:56:20 -!- milaz [n=milaz@77.106.223.233] has quit ["Bye!"] 17:56:29 is such a convenient gesture 17:56:42 milaz [n=milaz@77.106.223.233] has joined #lisp 17:56:45 I didn't bother with the right-hand two-finger drag most times 17:57:20 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bovsjsdddpzffios] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:58:07 rpg [n=rpg@64-131-9-144.usfamily.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:11 Does anyone have Control on both sides of the keyboard? 17:58:44 tcr: hmm, that could be managed 17:58:46 At first it seemed mind breaking, but has been appealing as of late 18:00:01 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:40 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-219-60.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:28 cvandusen: How else would you be able to use Control when touch typing? Control must be two keys, and if at all possible, both on the home row. 18:02:46 cvandusen: mind breaking? I never used a keyboard that doesn't 18:02:59 lichtblau: so far, with contortions to the left hand for e.g., C-x, C-r, C-e 18:03:15 say no to contortions 18:03:37 galdor [n=galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:13 Quick question: I have a vague memory of someone having written a firefox search plugin for the CLHS. Anyone else remember this? 18:04:22 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 18:04:38 rpg: http://lispdoc.com/ 18:05:00 milaz: I've been using a reduced-size keyboard that lacks two Control keys 18:06:29 cvandusen: that might be an unpleasant experience? 18:06:49 Xach: Thanks. That's just what I wanted. 18:07:27 spacebat1 [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-164-250.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:27 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:09:31 -!- seangrove [n=user@adsl-71-135-126-117.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:09:43 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 18:09:48 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:10:51 milaz: for the most part, no. The Fn keys are symmetric, so a lot of cursor movement is done via that combo 18:11:34 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:11:51 pfeyz [n=user@146.95.33.35] has joined #lisp 18:11:57 billitch [n=billitch@p57A27F0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:16 -!- DylanJ [n=QQ@unaffiliated/dylanj] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:13:40 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-52-241.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:13:46 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@dyn57-11.yok.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:16:04 -!- Taggnostr2 [n=x@dyn57-11.yok.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:12 Taggnostr [n=x@dyn57-11.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 18:17:53 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:18:06 sbt [n=sbt@214.80-203-101.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:46 jmbr [n=jmbr@100.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:19:48 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:20:07 quodlibetor [n=user@ool-4570c6ff.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:18 demmel1 [n=Adium@ip-109-84-124-67.web.vodafone.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:41 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A17D1.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:21:27 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-219-60.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:22:20 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:22:33 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.102.233] has joined #lisp 18:23:08 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:24:03 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:24:33 powertoy [n=powertoy@88.238.41.183] has joined #lisp 18:24:56 -!- demmel [n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:25:51 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:26:24 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:26:26 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@54.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 18:26:52 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@122.167.102.233] has left #lisp 18:28:36 cmsimon [n=cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 18:29:19 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:29:19 *sigh* 18:29:26 Have I forgotten something about ASDF --- didn't it's manual once kinda document the ASDF protocol (i.e., what methods need to be defined)? Currently we have a discussion of the operations and the components, but the protocol is not attached to either, but to the cross-product.... 18:29:51 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@student167-152.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 18:31:46 Wombat1 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:55 -!- Wombat1 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has left #lisp 18:34:38 nyquist [n=quassel@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:37:07 milanj- [n=milan@93.87.150.86] has joined #lisp 18:37:19 brad_ [n=chatzill@72.89.124.7] has joined #lisp 18:38:00 benny [n=benny@i577A17D1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:57 -!- demmel1 [n=Adium@ip-109-84-124-67.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:40:34 Guthur [n=Michael@host86-140-191-199.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:53 beach, at least the week is over.. 18:41:43 deepfire: There is that, yes. Thanks for the encouragement. 18:41:48 wishing time away... 18:42:15 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@100.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:42:15 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.87.150.86] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:44:36 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.194.94] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:44:57 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:44:58 The good thing (I guess) is that I wrote some tests for the CLIM3 code I am working on, and then debugged the problems I found. The bad news is it took me 3/4 of the day. 18:45:50 beach: was this while you were at uni 18:46:11 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@net203-182-158.mclink.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:46:49 Guthur: What do you mean? This week I am on "vacation" meaning I have no students, so I take advantage of it to get som work done. 18:47:26 Guthur: And no, I am not going to work this week, because staying at home saves transportation time and shaving time. 18:47:27 beach oh, sorry i didn't know you were on vacation 18:47:41 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A17D1.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:47:46 hhh do you have to shave 18:48:03 let it grow, uni prof's should all have beards 18:48:14 Guthur: I could grow a beard, but tried that in the past and I don't like it. 18:48:20 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-0-13.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 18:48:40 Guthur: I might reconsider, if I find a way to avoid that food gets stuck. 18:48:47 roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 18:48:58 -!- cmsimon [n=cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:49:02 beach: you must be a messy eater or have a mighty beard 18:49:11 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:30 Guthur: Either way, shaving is 5 minutes, transportation is 30 or more. 18:50:26 trim the moustache, no food getting stuck then, least i don't think so, never checked to be honest, I could have half my dinner sticking to my face and never realised 18:51:51 I'll think about it. 18:54:00 can i manually add threads on a prebuild sbcl binary? 18:54:22 i mean is it possible to enable sb:threads on it 18:54:26 powertoy: no 18:54:40 powertoy: you compile with thread support, you can't 'add' in in 18:54:43 it in* 18:54:45 threads really should default to on for platforms where they work right by now 18:55:15 powertoy: IMO, using clbuild for both building sbcl and installing libraries is currently your best bet 18:55:52 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@193.174.12.194] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:56:03 foom: convincing lispers that it's a good thing to choose the useful defaults is rather hard when it's not "the right" choice 18:56:28 -!- metawilm [n=user@g225100110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:56:46 -!- milaz [n=milaz@77.106.223.233] has left #lisp 18:56:46 -!- sbt [n=sbt@214.80-203-101.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:56:51 drewc: is xmls yours? 18:57:59 Guthur: mine in that i've tried to pass it off to countless others who say the use it and want to maintain it, yet my email address that hasn't working in almost 6 years is still on the page, yeah. 18:58:23 *drewc* has good english today! 18:58:26 *drewc* needs more coffee 18:58:37 hhh, its ok i get the jist of it 18:58:41 gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:41 gist* 18:59:21 whats the reasoning behind the nil after each element when stored in the list 18:59:28 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-090-093.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 18:59:41 or is that someone else's addition 19:00:24 you mean the list of attributes, or something else? 19:01:03 maybe it is for attributes i don't have any in my tags, i tend to use a very adhoc minimalistic xml doc 19:01:07 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:48 let me add some attributes to an element and see what happens 19:01:49 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@38.112.6.110] has joined #lisp 19:01:50 Hmm...for the use of SOAP calls, client side, is there an alternate to CL-SOAP that can be used? 19:02:03 Trying to find a few alternatives and it's been kinda difficult. 19:02:36 -!- powertoy [n=powertoy@88.238.41.183] has left #lisp 19:03:33 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 19:03:39 TDT: CL-XML apparently has a SOAP client as well. 19:04:00 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 19:04:40 -!- spacebat1 [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-164-250.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:04:42 drewc: Thanks, I will look at that then 19:05:55 drewc: ya it was the place for the element attributes, because i had none it was nil, thanks, it seems your memory of it is good 19:06:36 Guthur: i still use the xmls xml representation via cxml all the time. 19:07:09 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-090-093.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:07:13 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-090-093.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 19:07:14 (and the fact that it exists at all is good reason to not use xmls, imo) 19:08:20 drewc: assuming you use CL-XML, are you using it with sbcl? 19:08:38 Axius [n=ojof@92.82.87.189] has joined #lisp 19:08:44 TDT: i don't use cl-xml.... i think it's a bit horrible actually. 19:09:08 If i needed soap, i'd probably just roll my own using cxml and drakma 19:09:51 powertoy [n=powertoy@88.238.41.183] has joined #lisp 19:10:33 drewc: Yeah, that's possible but I worry about making it specific to work with only one type of xml. I'd really like to take an existing project and work on that some to get it to work for what I need. 19:10:44 -!- powertoy [n=powertoy@88.238.41.183] has left #lisp 19:11:16 -!- pfeyz [n=user@146.95.33.35] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:11:30 -!- kami [n=user@p5B20FF75.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:11:42 TDT: that makes little sense to me... there is only one type of XML... non? 19:12:47 drewc: Yes, only one type of XML, but if the problem was that simple then the two or three projects I messed with to solve the problem wouldn't have a problem. Soap appears to be a little more of a difficult question. 19:14:30 TDT: I usually just assume the the programmers who tried to write the existing libraries were idiots, and come up with a simple and elegant solution that fits my problem directly ;) 19:15:54 drewc: What worries me about that is we have about 4-10 differnet libraries for different problems. Take CSV parsing for example..I went through 3-4 different libraries and eventually settled with one. The problem with always reinventing the wheel is that it makes finding a library difficult for others if one is published. I wasted a number of hours trying to find what may work. 19:15:59 benny [n=benny@i577A17D1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:41 One of the great aspects of stuff like github/google code/etc, is that we can take the existing code, fix it, then submit changes back - really helps to prevent the whole reinvent thing that is sometimes easier but doesn't help the community. 19:17:05 TDT: so, choice paralysis is your issue? Is your job to write code or the help the mythical community. Can you polish a turd? 19:18:50 also: http://search.cpan.org/search?query=csv&mode=all 19:19:09 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:19:55 and : http://www.google.ca/search?q=csv+java+library 19:20:06 napsy [n=luka@88.200.96.14] has joined #lisp 19:20:20 drewc: Polish a turd? no, but perhaps rewrite it to accept the base stuff that the original was used to fix + your own changes, then submit back. My job is to write code, yes, but not reinvent the wheel every chance I get. The first job I ever do when looking at a problem is what has been done already to solve it. 19:20:36 i mean ... this isn't just a lisp thing... people write libraries for other languages too. 19:20:45 drewc: Your very point of presenting those links just reinforces my issue with libraries..I didn't say it was Lisp specific 19:20:48 exactly 19:21:07 The problem is not just lisp, but it's still a problem, regardless of the langauge, as it resides with the thinking of developers. 19:21:29 It's easy to say "hey this code sucks ass" but it's harder to say "hey this code sucks ass, but I'll help it suck ass a little less" 19:21:48 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:48 -!- rpg [n=rpg@64-131-9-144.usfamily.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:22:05 TDT: I'd prefer "hey, this code kicks ass", and if it doesn't, why should i waste time on it. 19:22:31 these hours you 'wasted' seeing what would work could have been spent writing kick-ass code! 19:22:33 Unfortunately, for most of us, the only code that really kicks ass is the code we write. 19:22:41 -!- lichtblau [n=user@77-22-106-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:23:02 TDT: if you find that's the case, then i might suggest reading more code! 19:23:22 *drewc* uses the kick-ass code of others all the time 19:23:26 heh, I read tons of code in a day...I read more code than i write 19:24:22 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has joined #lisp 19:25:02 TDT: you you have trouble recognising quality in code you didn't produce? 19:25:07 yet you 19:25:46 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:24 i mean, taking SOAP as an example... i can think of a few different ways to do XML in lisp, all valid in some contexts. On top of that, i can think of many different ways to present a SOAP interface... 19:27:56 so, it makes sense that there be at least (few x many)+1 SOAP libraries. 19:27:59 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.254.207] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:29:15 If there are a few ways to do XML in lisp, and all valid - then each way is valid - thus it's really a coin flip at this point, since all work and none really solve any specific issue. Producing the interface to the soap you have a point on, but if all of those people who produce different libraries sat down and came up with one, or looked at even another langauge and how they did it - there would be one library. 19:29:38 that doesn't follow.... 19:29:48 *shrug* 19:30:00 one library with (few x many) different ways of doing things? 19:30:05 I have work to get done, so we can battle this out later...but most people I think feel the same way with you. 19:30:16 and a coin flip? I don't think so... 19:30:32 valid in some cases is not valid in all! 19:30:55 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:55 -!- EinarDog1in is now known as help 19:30:57 TDT: i think i can pick this one up any time, and i'm always up for a good debate.. get to work! :) 19:31:15 heh, yeah...it's hard for me to avoid debates, but I must for now - tonight maybe, heh. 19:31:25 -!- help is now known as EinarDogfin 19:31:35 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:31:43 as long as your markup file conforms to XML rule it is valid and it is hardly an issue how you made it or read it 19:32:09 Guthur: that's hardly related to the issue under discussion. 19:32:28 Guthur: what you do with the XML file and how you do it, OTOH, is what's on the table. 19:33:16 drewc only 3 minutes ago TDT said :If there are a few ways to do XML in lisp, and all valid - then each way is valid..... 19:33:16 *drewc* has his work locked in his laptop until he gets a new adaptor, and has nothing better to do than argue on #lisp 19:33:18 So what do we learn from all the reports about compiler bugs in ccl 1.4? 19:33:35 -!- kpreid__ [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:40 so how is what i said not related, admittedly reading that now he said more or less the same thing 19:33:59 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@38.112.6.110] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:33:59 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:34:26 Guthur: selective quoting does not an on-topic quote make. 19:34:31 I wonder how you can get people to actually try a release candidate 19:34:45 Release a big advertised beta version? 19:35:06 meh, i'm going to drink my tea 19:35:08 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:35:19 tcr: good question... i usually try rc's simply because my process is setup to allow building whenever i feel like it. 19:36:03 tcr: so, ultimately, something like clbuild gaining widespread traction + a push mechanism for updates (optionally applied) might be a boon. 19:36:09 I don't have a problem either, but I didn't follow up on their request either 19:36:51 then again i'm still on 1.0.29.rc5 here, so what do i know. 19:36:58 drewc: Yeah something like "The Clozure Team is going to release a new version very soon. Do you want to help by building the release candidate (Y/n)?" 19:37:19 tcr: totally, with the caveat that your working version is backed up just in case 19:37:47 tcr: by any chance, do you also see sometimes cut frames like this? 11: (HU.DWIM.DELICO::APPLY-LAMBDA/CC/OPTIONAL ..) the rest of the frames are fully printed. this came after i've rebased my changes to slime head 19:37:50 yeah that is supposed to temporarily turn you into a build drone 19:38:33 attila_lendvai: No not really, but I don't work on clos-heavy code 19:38:48 htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 19:39:39 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:39:40 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:40:44 hrm, this is annoying in my sldb... and it's not even consistent. i'm looking at some lists in local variables and they are cut of at the 1st, 2nd, 3rd element, without any pattern i could recognize 19:40:50 TR2N [i=email@89.180.164.218] has joined #lisp 19:41:07 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:41:16 i need to test this with slime head and see whether it's our bug or not 19:42:04 attila_lendvai, did you try bootstrapping xcvb from asdf? 19:42:29 Fare: no. i install a release and then issue a make in my xcvb/ 19:42:35 froydnj: ok, I _really_ need to merge my external-format work before you do anything else to fd-streams 19:42:58 attila_lendvai, you might try a make xcvb-using-asdf to bootstrap 19:43:00 when loading a package i get a warning saying: WARNING: MYPACKAGE used to use the following packages: (#) 19:43:12 the thing is i am still using the package 19:43:16 *tcr* wonders where the hell he can subscribe to sbcl-commits 19:43:20 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:43:34 although, I don't think there were changes that should break make, only changes that break images with old xcvb-master 19:43:58 tcr: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sbcl-commits 19:44:01 tcr: last i checked, sbcl-commits wasn't working too good. is it working ok now? 19:44:23 it's been working reliably for me for the last week or so 19:44:40 there haven't been many commits before that in the previous fortnight, but I know of no particular untimeliness 19:44:50 it remains a sourceforge mailing list, and therefore flaky 19:45:09 Xach: The gmane gateway seems to be working quite well 19:45:39 Fare: my first error currently is "Couldn't load #P"obj/xcvb/driver.fasl": file does not exist." which leads (?) to "Trying to use package XCVB-MASTER, but it is not loaded yet!" 19:46:10 Krystof: aw, that merge is easy 19:46:19 yeah... I'm just scared of what else you might do 19:46:25 *Fare* was wondering how to (not) rewrite the dependency-walking algorithm in xcvb for the standalone backend. I found that I only had to make "make-computation" generic. 19:46:34 *froydnj* cracks his knuckles in Krystof's direction 19:46:37 1.0.32.9: introduce newline handling in external formats 19:46:45 attila_lendvai, whoa. 19:46:54 Guthur: are you sure? I'd only expect that if SOME-PACKAGE is no longer in your :use list 19:47:07 Krystof: I do have a question for you, though. 19:47:19 Fade: generic functions FTW! :) 19:47:26 Fare rather ^ 19:47:36 ouch, I broke something and didn't realize because my build was "polluted" with working fasls 19:47:59 *attila_lendvai* waits for a git rebase then 19:48:39 drewc ya definitely in my :use list exactly as it appears in the warning 19:48:52 Krystof: in compiler/dump.lisp:dump-i-vector, why are various cases labeled with #-sb-xc-host? shouldn't those be #+sb-xc-host, since we're readying the target compiler then and it would be appropriate to dump such vectors? 19:49:22 Krystof: (ditto for maybe-emit-make-load-forms in compiler/ir1tran.lisp) 19:49:39 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6D3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 19:49:52 froydnj: because those cases need not even exist on the host 19:50:01 Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-76-124-3-89.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:08 Guthur: (package-use-list (find-package :mypackage)) => ? 19:50:09 a host can legitimately have very few specialized arrays 19:50:17 we're naughty in depending on (unsigned-byte 8), frankly 19:50:24 powertoy [n=powertoy@88.238.41.183] has joined #lisp 19:50:25 ... Speaking of m-l-f, isn't there a bug to do with the lambda lists not being pre-processed for dumping such? 19:50:31 but we are the host at that point, no? 19:50:41 and we know what we support 19:51:19 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:51:27 *froydnj* is probably getting his terms confused 19:52:01 the cross-compiler version of dump-i-vector can't do (typecase ... ((vector (unsigned-byte 16)) ...) and expect to win, because if on the lisp the cross-compiler is running in there is no specialized vector representation (unsigned-byte 16), then that type question might be the same as (vector (unsigned-byte 32)) 19:52:11 is there an alternative to ignore-errors that first tries the :continue option first and aborts if not able to continue 19:52:28 powertoy: Clever use of handler-bind. 19:52:42 Sounds like a wrong solution in hands of newbie 19:52:50 oh, hm. 19:52:50 running on an arbitrary CL, doing (make-array 3 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 16)) might give you an object which is of type (vector (unsigned-byte 32)) 19:53:05 so will (make-array 3 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 32)) 19:53:25 at which point there will be no way to decide which of those is meant to have a target representation of (vector ub16) and which of (vector ub32) 19:53:38 that's why the meta-vmdef kludges I did today can't simply go away 19:53:48 *froydnj* is attempting to make the unibyte octets lookup tables suck less 19:54:07 Until you just wrap the entire thing in a custom set of array wrappers to provide SBCL's idea of array specialization to the cross-compiler. 19:54:09 (instead of dumping a specialized vector, which we can't do, dump a toplevel form which creates the specialized array) 19:54:14 What's the trick so http://git.boinkor.net/gitweb/sbcl.git knows my name? 19:54:28 nyef: yeah, I'll do that shortly after implementing a portable IEEE 754 and float wrappers 19:54:45 froydnj: ok, that _really_ sounds like it wants to wait until I've merged the external-formats branch 19:55:16 Krystof: just a small change to octets.lisp! can't hurt a thing! :) 19:55:25 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:55:29 actually you might be ok there; I don't think I've changed octets very much 19:55:43 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:50 nyef: in fact i found that option but i couldn't find the function that "continues" on that error condition 19:55:59 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-12022.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:08 powertoy: (handler-bind ((condition #'continue)) body..) 19:56:11 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:56:16 powertoy: Have a look at find-restart and invoke-restart. 19:56:31 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 19:56:34 hm, nobody ever continued to respond to the lazily-loaded external-format plan 19:56:46 Krystof: The real question, though, is how to make a full reimplementation of the arithmetic operations not suck, speedwise. 19:56:56 because memory is getting cheaper and cheaper... :) 19:57:01 tcr: nyef: thanks :) 19:57:57 ...and SBCL_HOME + image saving + lazy loading is a headache already 19:58:11 "but we do not know whether SBCL has a retargetable code generator." 19:58:33 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:47 who's we? 19:59:04 the authors of the paper surveying ACL, Lispworks and SBCL 19:59:07 (top of lisp.reddit) 19:59:20 And what sense of the term "retargetable"? 19:59:41 japanese 19:59:58 attila_lendvai: *shrug* I don't think it'd make things any worse 20:00:54 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:01:00 froydnj: that's true 20:01:47 ruediger_ [n=ruediger@188-23-185-164.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:02:15 How hard would it be to have SBCL run asynchronous interrupts (interrupt-thread, signal handlers, etc.) on altstacks instead of the main thread stacks? 20:02:59 I guess it's just stack allocation and GC concerns that need to be dealt with, right? 20:04:01 -!- Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-76-124-3-89.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:04:05 *froydnj* chuckles that sbcl's instruction selector is getting *praised* 20:05:21 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-16-28.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:05:35 drewc sorry i had to test something, i actually removed the warning by removing it from the :use list 20:06:08 thats what took so long i wanted to test if that removed the error, maybe it was being used my a previous package in the :use list 20:06:21 not sure it that would cause the warning 20:06:28 s/it/if 20:06:50 s/my/by 20:07:33 Ralith_ [n=ralith@d142-058-090-093.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:08:12 *froydnj* sees that the changes to TRULY-THE are causing suboptimal code generation for REPLACE 20:08:21 attila_lendvai, update and try again... 20:08:24 Guther: "If the new definition is at variance with the current state of that package, the consequences are undefined;" 20:08:41 -!- skeptomai|away [n=nnnnnnnn@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Getting off stoned server - dircproxy 1.2.0"] 20:08:59 skeptomai|away [n=nnnnnnnn@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:04 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-090-093.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:09:26 Guthur: so, technically, if you are redefining a package, and it's not identical to the existing package, nasal demons are a possibility. 20:09:26 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [] 20:09:46 *froydnj* also sees that somehow, the REPLACE transforms are bugged. 20:09:58 attila_lendvai, why rebase? 20:11:14 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:11:16 Fare: i've got some trivial patches recorded here 20:11:33 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:18 drewc when i do (package-use-list (find-package :mypackage)) it is no longer there, that warning has been there for a couple days now restarts and all so nasal demons were ruled out, i will restart again to make sure they are not causing it to be fixed 20:12:27 attila_lendvai, oh ok. Send them my way 20:13:08 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has joined #lisp 20:13:10 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:12 Guthur: do you have a USE-PACKAGE somewhere? 20:13:13 \ 20:13:14 [ 20:13:25 sorry .. ferret wanted to say hi 20:13:36 egoz [n=Egoz@125.163.43.59] has joined #lisp 20:14:58 Guthur: also, there is the possibility that 'restarts' are not enough, if you're loading from .fasls... have you tried nuking 'em? 20:16:07 nyef, was chapter 3 readable? 20:16:46 attila pasted "xcvb build failure for Fare" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89568 20:16:49 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:59 this was my use: list (:use :COMMON-LISP :SDL :LISPBUILDER-SDL-TTF )) changing to (:use :COMMON-LISP :SDL )) removed the error, it was complaining about the TTF package 20:17:46 Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-76-124-3-89.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:53 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:13 my knowledge of .fasls is limited, they are there though, i had to recompile them once before i believe 20:18:17 attila_lendvai, I don't understand, .416 was broken that way, but .417 works for me -- bootstrapped it successfully from the release tarball 20:18:32 attila_lendvai, are you trying to use the broken xcvb .416 to bootstrap .417? 20:18:33 when i changed the threading *features* for SBCL 20:18:41 that won't work, .416 is borked :( 20:18:50 Fare: oh right... just a sec 20:18:54 you may need to make xcvb-using-asdf 20:18:59 or dig a know-working xcvb 20:19:04 known 20:19:38 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-234-143.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:07 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-183-4.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:21:04 *attila_lendvai* has built the xcvb release 20:21:19 -!- Ralith_ [n=ralith@d142-058-090-093.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:21:21 milanj [n=milan@93.87.150.86] has joined #lisp 20:21:40 pfeyz [n=user@146.95.65.217] has joined #lisp 20:22:00 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-18-130.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:22:10 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-16-28.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:22:16 Fare: is it good practice that 'make' installs xcvb when built from the source tree? how about a little testing locally? or would that be too cumbersome to set up? 20:22:21 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-16-28.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:22:57 it would be doable to setup 20:23:19 -!- ruediger_ is now known as ruediger 20:23:27 I admit that I'm not automatically testing as much as I should at this moment. 20:23:29 it's something i did not expect, but nothing really important 20:23:33 I was worrying more about features. 20:24:26 Fare: ideally a 'make' should build using the installed one, then build again using the previously built, non-installed one, compare the outputs and then install 20:24:41 -!- gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [] 20:24:57 it's also because of limitations in cl-launch -- unless you're in standalone executable mode (only reliably works for sbcl and to a point clisp) it has to know where the wrapped dumped image is 20:25:11 and so you cannot just prepare the program and copy it 20:25:29 but you could create a test copy, and only create the installed copy when the test is successful 20:25:57 except in standalone mode, you cannot do that at all. 20:26:14 because of timestamps, comparing isn't possible even in standalone mode. 20:26:15 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:27:30 -!- Ogedei [n=user@e178215126.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:28:44 is there a common macro utility library with ONCE-ONLY, WITH-GENSYMS and such? 20:28:52 -!- Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-76-124-3-89.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:28:58 *froydnj* realizes that just moving code/external-format/ bits to warm-init would solve his problems 20:29:04 gonzojive: alexandria 20:29:11 minion: tell gonzojive about alexandria 20:29:12 gonzojive: please look at alexandria: Alexandria is a collection of portable public domain utilities. http://www.cliki.net/alexandria 20:29:54 Krystof: that paper is... "special". 20:30:51 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:31:09 -!- dalkvist [n=cairdaza@213.226.77.202] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:31:27 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.20.159] has joined #lisp 20:31:29 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.82.87.189] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:34:29 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 20:34:38 -!- powertoy [n=powertoy@88.238.41.183] has left #lisp 20:34:49 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:35:32 attila annotated #89568 "more xcvb headache" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89568#1 20:35:59 Fare: as far as i know this happens with the clean codebase 20:36:28 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:36:39 what does your local patch do? 20:37:40 Fare: i got rid of them. it happens when i install from the release tarball, and then load xcvb-master from a clean git head 20:37:59 *Fare* successfully make xcvb-using-asdf ; rm -rf obj/* ; make xcvb 20:38:01 i have my changes in a branch 20:39:25 I'm perplexed by the bit that ACL is supposed not to emit code to overflow to bignum 20:39:47 tcr: uh? 20:43:04 Fare: any idea how to make it more debuggable? i've tried to add a restart-case with an abort restart to xcvbm:resume but the complaint remains the same about the no restarts 20:43:44 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:43:50 i think we should focus on how to help debugging things like this, instead of the error itself 20:44:47 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 20:45:30 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:46:45 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:47:05 demmel [n=Adium@dslb-188-098-203-030.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:11 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:47:57 there is no other method called after object instantiation after initialize-instance, is there? 20:47:57 attila_lendvai, works for me -- are you using an old xcvb-master? 20:48:08 (cl clos) 20:48:26 you mean xcvbd:resume ? 20:48:54 Fare: yes, that resume 20:49:20 Fare: i have xcvb executable built/installed from xcvb-0.417 release, xcvb-master loaded from clean git head 20:50:05 you might want to spell alexandria in lower case 20:50:27 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:52 lichtblau [n=user@port-92-195-70-58.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:50:58 the failure mode is weird -- I thought I had configured it to echo a backtrace 20:51:06 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:51:17 Krystof: sbcl 1.0.32.7 won't build for me on linux x86-64 20:51:27 is the attempt at an abort restart your doing? 20:51:52 djinni` [n=djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:26 Fare: same with lowercase. i've added the abort restart, but it does not seem to show up, not even after i make git head + the abort restart. is that the single point of toplevel lambda in xcvb? 20:52:32 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:56 dalkvist [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has joined #lisp 20:52:58 Krystof: ; undefined variable: O_LARGEFILE [in UNIX-OPEN in unix.lisp] 20:53:06 -!- dalkvist [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:53:50 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-234-143.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:54:02 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 20:54:30 attila_lendvai, I haven't seen your patch so I can't comment on it 20:55:09 if you're debugging xcvb itself, you might want to put restarts inside interpret-command-line or whatever 20:55:38 I don't think xcvbd:resume is used at this point -- xcvb doesn't deal with dumping executables (yet), cl-launch does it. 20:55:56 *attila_lendvai* tries that 20:57:07 Fare: in main, any reason not to use restarts and invoke-restart? 20:57:32 -!- reid09 [n=reid09@CPE001cdf73661f-CM001ceacec55e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 20:58:04 uh, probably not, except that 1- I'm not familiar with them, and 2- I want the default behavior to be non-interactive 20:58:41 except if say XCVB_DEBUGGING is set, or some option passed (but option parsing is handled later) 20:58:42 Fare: i turn them into restarts that behave the same 20:59:10 as far as i see it'll be a trivial change 20:59:25 I suppose I could divide argument parsing into "early options" and "command plus arguments", sbcl-style 20:59:35 I'll consider any patch you send. 20:59:51 piso: yeah, rm tools/grovel-headers 21:00:12 I know about it but couldn't think of a good way to automate it 21:00:28 ok, thanks! 21:01:45 -!- demmel [n=Adium@dslb-188-098-203-030.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:02:19 Fare: Chapter 3 does appear to be readable, yes. I haven't read it yet, though. 21:02:39 confirm after you have :) 21:02:48 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:51 Heh. Okay. 21:02:58 (or infirm) 21:03:17 On a related topic, is there any sane use of interrupt-thread beyond merely forcing a thread into the debugger? 21:03:47 1- killing an activity that is now obsolete 21:03:49 I'd like to get a heap breakdown that distinguishes more types. Has anyone written that already? 21:04:03 2- telling an activity to run in "logging" mode 21:04:14 3- serializing and migrating an activity 21:04:26 I'll buy 1, but how does 2 work? 21:04:27 milaz [n=milaz@85.174.146.234] has joined #lisp 21:04:46 And as for 3, I'd argue that it should be accomplishable via the debugging API anyway. 21:04:52 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1"] 21:05:42 Besides, for 3, wouldn't you be wanting to PCLSR it to some set of constraints prior to serialization anyway? 21:06:18 seangrove [n=user@adsl-99-2-229-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:19 uh yes. 21:06:32 interrupt-thread w/o any PCLSRing as not very useful 21:06:47 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 21:07:03 -!- amaron [n=amaron@cable-89-216-178-166.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:07:06 I once used interrupt-thread and eval-in-frame to fake a symbol-value-in-thread :) 21:07:18 except if the only invariant you care about is implicitly preserved by the system (e.g. GC) 21:07:37 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:07:39 ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.28] has joined #lisp 21:07:42 (e.g. the thread doesn't share any memory resources or locks with other thread) 21:07:57 tcr: ... But... why? You can pull the TLS index of the symbol and do the lookup without the interruption. 21:08:35 well as a sort of portable way 21:08:51 tcr: Sounds like a debugging operation anyway. 21:09:16 2- was actually a trivial variant of 3 21:09:26 froydnj: how are the replace transforms broken? 21:09:29 yeah I needed that to guard against access of unwound values in the slime inspector 21:09:44 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-12-78-154.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:50 i.e. atomically redefine a few global/threadlocal variables/functions. 21:10:50 as I argue in my chapter 3, most interesting things can be seen as a special case of 3. 21:10:54 So, what I'm thinking is that execution contexts need to be first-class objects, and that there needs to be an operation defined on these objects to PCLSR a paused execution context with respect to a given invariant. 21:11:52 nyef, yes 21:12:06 and invariants must probably be first-class for the same reason 21:12:59 (though in a given program fragment, it's WAY better if the invariants be known at compile-time, so you can use a zero-setup implementation) 21:13:03 Krystof pasted "newline external-formats: what should replace the ?s" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89573 21:14:13 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:16 -!- milaz [n=milaz@85.174.146.234] has quit ["Bye!"] 21:14:54 Krystof: #\newline 21:15:11 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:22 in all three cases? 21:15:59 Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's consistent with what other software does. 21:16:24 Fare: much better, sbcl's debugger tries to come up, except that it's not bound to stdio, so i only get the first page. the error is an unbound slot judging from the available restarts, but unfortunately that's all i can see 21:16:33 I think it only translates the platform's newline representation to the newline character, and leaves everything else alone. 21:17:04 amaron [n=amaron@cable-89-216-178-166.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:17:47 I would have (naively) assumed that 10 is always #\Newline, and 13 always #\Return, but what do I know... 21:19:08 -!- peddie_ [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:19:12 peddie [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:22 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:19:29 well, "mac" is kinda a misnomer these days 21:19:32 On the other hand, if all these combinations are to be interpreted in the same way on all platforms, it should always be #\Newline, shouldn't it? 21:19:49 because OSX uses unix line endings in most places 21:20:09 attila_lendvai, once again, works for me on the release tarball. Can I see your patch? 21:20:50 swathanthran [n=user@117.204.83.252] has joined #lisp 21:21:03 snellcode [n=snellcod@242.143.68.216.DED-DSL.fuse.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:20 is there a lisp interpreter written in lisp? 21:21:29 sort of like pypy? 21:22:31 snellcode, there's SACLA 21:22:37 and ACL2 21:22:52 then again SBCL 21:23:05 depends what you want it for 21:23:12 educational 21:23:36 what kind of education? 21:23:44 to better understand how lisp works 21:24:10 and also how interpreters work 21:26:07 maybe what you want is read Lisp in Small Pieces 21:26:15 PAIP 21:27:01 -!- peddie [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:27:09 thanks 21:27:30 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-183.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:28:00 also might be interested in PLAI 21:28:13 or maybe SICP if that's your genre 21:28:33 snellcode, http://homepage1.nifty.com/bmonkey/lisp/sacla 21:29:41 oh, here's the English version: http://homepage1.nifty.com/bmonkey/lisp/sacla/index-en.html 21:29:44 cid [n=cid@91-67-128-158-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:29:49 -!- seangrove [n=user@adsl-99-2-229-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:29:57 peddie [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:15 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:30:24 snellcode: also http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/aim-8/ if you want to get back to basics 21:30:39 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:31:13 snellcode, are you interested in CL in particular, Lisp languages in general? 21:31:19 a particular implementation? 21:31:25 interpreters in general? 21:31:30 why not compilers? 21:32:05 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:19 -!- Grue` [n=grue@masq.snto-msu.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1"] 21:33:22 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has left #lisp 21:33:34 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 21:34:21 i was looking at pypy, and then i thought this is great, but its huge, and i remembered that i heard lisp could be written in iteself on one page 21:34:26 Krystof: I'm dumb, ignore my replace bit 21:34:50 snellcode, by "lisp" you must mean "scheme" or "lisp 1.5" or something like that, not CL. 21:35:46 so yes, i do need to know about how to compile it also, but a very simple implementation is what interests me 21:35:48 Fare: He means Paul Graham's Maxwell's equations of Lisp 21:36:26 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:36:52 isn't clisp just another lisp dialect like scheme? 21:38:33 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has joined #lisp 21:38:48 clisp is the name of a Common Lisp implementation 21:39:30 G = 8GT 21:39:52 the unicode support of my client astonishes me again 21:40:02 (the set of subscript letters in unicode is... odd) 21:40:09 no subscript mu or nu 21:40:38 but subscript small letter schwa 21:41:21 perhaps for antidiscrimination purposes? 21:41:41 they've got enough space 21:41:51 why not just put a complete standard character set in sub/superscript mode 21:43:24 drewc: did you have some code that created cl-sql classes from database-tables 21:43:27 ? 21:44:30 knobo: i did at one point... no idea where it is now. 21:45:48 i don't use cl-sql anymore, and i don't quite generate classes in the same manner anymore, so i wouldn't recommend it anyway :) 21:46:53 so what is more used by lispers, common lisp or scheme? 21:48:11 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:48:24 napsy - Scheme is used by schemers. 21:48:42 napsy: It's difficult to stay serious trying to answer that question. What do you think you want that information for? 21:48:45 Who are lispers, too. 21:48:57 CL is based in scheme in part. 21:49:01 er, on. 21:50:04 and the other way around, too 21:50:18 Well, to a lesser extent -- scheme predating CL. 21:51:56 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:52:41 yeah scheme's really aged, still because it has tried very hard to stay hygienic all the time, it smells less than Common Lisp. 21:52:59 am i right that ecl is not supported by swank yet? 21:53:08 No that's wrong 21:53:13 hm 21:53:20 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:53:24 -!- ryepup [n=ryepup@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 21:55:23 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 21:55:35 > ;;; Loading "/usr/share/common-lisp/source/slime/swank-loader.lisp" 21:55:36 LAMBDA: Too many arguments to function COMPILE-FILES-IF-NEEDED-SERIALLY. 21:56:25 Use slime from cvs 21:56:32 not your distribution's package 21:56:49 before installing slime from cvs, please _purge_ your distribution's package 21:57:06 ok, i see 21:57:14 -!- amaron [n=amaron@cable-89-216-178-166.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:58:14 thanks! 21:58:16 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 21:59:26 tcr pasted "sbcl type inference: strange result type" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89575 21:59:35 Can anyone explain that to me? 22:00:11 projections [n=projecti@85.101.60.152] has joined #lisp 22:00:22 hi 22:00:33 hello all 22:00:40 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:48 tcr: It's the range of a fixnum either side of 10.0, expressed as a float? 22:01:00 bohanlon_ [n=bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:14 the disassembly looks fascinating too 22:01:16 (With some room for error, that is.) 22:01:17 -!- cid [n=cid@91-67-128-158-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 22:01:46 what does the &optional mean there? 22:01:50 -!- projections [n=projecti@85.101.60.152] has left #lisp 22:01:53 ayrnieu: No further values possible. 22:02:49 drewc: The idea is to use it in a transition phase. 22:03:35 knobo: it's fairly trivial to get the data you need from the system tables. 22:04:34 nyef: Thanks that makes sense 22:05:12 knobo annotated #89552 "create clsql class from function (updated)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89552#1 22:05:42 drewc: can you see anything obiusly wrong in my paste? 22:05:56 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:39 the problem is that after I have runed the def-view-class, it still looks like the view-class is not defined. 22:06:48 (clsql:list-classes) returns nil 22:07:02 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:07:41 HET3 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:08 it could be an upercase/lowercase issue 22:08:29 It is actualy 22:08:33 solved! :) 22:08:42 (select [*] :from [|wp_posts|]) works 22:09:09 thank you for beeing my green frog :) 22:10:08 -!- HET3 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:11:15 kay [n=quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:42 -!- kay is now known as vasilisa 22:13:17 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:13:30 Willem [n=user@g230125186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:15:23 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:16:21 But it does not solve the problem, because cl-sql assumes that all mysql tables are upercase. 22:16:31 clsql is stupid. I'll use something else. 22:16:43 So which one? 22:17:17 cl-mysql looks ok. 22:18:37 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.14.135] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:22:24 HET3 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:48 -!- bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:24:06 what does it mean to create a symlink to asdf-install.asd from my registry? 22:24:29 seangrove [n=user@adsl-99-2-229-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:45 vasilisa: the variable asdf:*central-registry* contains a list of places where .asd files are located. 22:26:31 so you have to make a link from your /path/to/asdf-install.asd to one directory listed in that variable 22:27:18 oh, i missed the part that told me to do that in the guide. :P 22:27:20 thanks. 22:27:26 then you can load asdf-install in slime by pressing ",lRETasdf-installRET" 22:28:51 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-12022.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:31:45 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:34:58 poet [n=tss@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 22:35:25 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:36:38 peddie_ [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:05 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:40:48 How would one go about subclassing a rectangle in McCLIM? It appears I have to make a class that inherits from rectangle, but it has to have its own members for the coordinates. Is that correct? 22:41:18 I believe so 22:41:23 Why? 22:41:34 you can subclass from standard-rectangle if you want to inherit the standard behaviours 22:42:24 yeah, but how do you instantiate from the new class with points (either * or non-* version)? 22:43:11 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-31-198.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:43:17 (change-class (make-rectangle ...) )? 22:43:26 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 22:43:32 ... ah... Ok, sorry, I'm new to this clos thing 22:43:48 I'm not saying this is necessarily perfect 22:45:06 -!- ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.28] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:45:09 ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.160] has joined #lisp 22:45:16 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-52-33.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:28 Ideally I'd like to subclass from standard-rectangle (say, foo) and instantiate with (make-foo* x1 y1 x2 y2) or (make-foo x y). So I can do that by defining functions that use (change-class ...)? 22:45:29 egoz_ [n=Egoz@125.163.43.59] has joined #lisp 22:47:30 gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 22:49:31 -!- egoz [n=Egoz@125.163.43.59] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:49:45 -!- egoz_ is now known as egoz 22:54:05 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:56:58 Sikander: why would you do that? 22:57:15 Hmm, it's interesting how -Os has such a large effect on speed of compilation. Maybe it's because of a large amount of forks, and, therefore, larger memory bandwidth requirement. 22:57:17 I dunno... 22:57:20 oh so you just call make-rectangle with the given args and then change-class to your class 22:57:27 Because it's fun? 22:57:31 not sure if there's much benefit in that, tho 22:57:44 But seriously, how can I find the initargs of rectangle? 22:57:51 hmm 22:57:57 wow, rahul is back! 22:57:58 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@tmo-100-116.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 22:58:04 Sikander: in a specific implementation or standard? 22:58:09 If I subclass it, I still want to be able to use that constructor, no? 22:58:11 I don't think there are standard initargs 22:58:12 rahul: mcclim 22:58:29 in mcclim, just look at the definition of the class 22:58:32 hi deepfire :) 22:58:39 hum, ok 22:59:37 rahul: How would one go about doing this in general? 22:59:41 hey rahul :-) 23:00:10 HET4 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:25 rahul: If I subclass standard-rectangle, and only add one slot, I still want to set the rectangle coordinates at instantiation. How would that work if there aren't any initargs? 23:00:33 Oh, I completely screwed reading these graphs. 23:01:44 Sikander: you could setf the slot-values after make-instance 23:01:59 -!- piso [n=peter@98.176.79.151] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:02:13 but if it comes to that, I think change-class after make-rect is the better solution 23:02:38 that's just my personal aesthetic sense, others may have a different opinion 23:02:40 rahul: members of standard-rectangle are immutable 23:02:54 so it appears change-class is the better option 23:02:55 that doesn't mean you can't mutate them :P 23:02:59 ? 23:03:14 *Sikander* is temporarily lost. 23:03:17 What does it mean then? 23:03:22 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-24-29.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:03:35 it just means that if you do, you better know what your clim impl has trouble with once you mutate the rect 23:03:38 -!- peddie [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:03:51 It means that you can't setf the coords, right? 23:04:14 Well, to be safe and neat, I'll just use change-class 23:04:51 rahul: thanks 23:05:25 why exactly do you need a rectangle that behaves differently from a rectangle? 23:05:42 piso [n=peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:05 rahul: I need an object that behaves as a rectangle. 23:06:14 then use make-rect 23:06:16 rahul: and like something else 23:06:34 make-rect is different from make-rectangle? 23:06:35 *rahul* shrugs 23:06:41 no, just abbreviating 23:06:45 ah, ok. 23:07:14 -!- HET3 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:07:14 oh well, carry on. you seem to be doing something rather strange, but I don't have time to figure out if it's sensible or not 23:07:15 Or is there some sort of viewport? 23:07:23 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:07:27 SBCL devs: I just committed M-x slime-visit-sbcl-bug for your cross-referencing pleasure. 23:07:33 is there a "viewport" object in clim? 23:07:39 Sikander: you can apply a sheet-transform 23:08:14 use a translation that gets you to the position you want 23:08:43 Ok, so lemme quickly explain: I want a plot. Thus, the rectangle (that is also drawn like a rectangle and can be positioned anywhere in the frame) must have its own coordinate inside. Is this a sheet? 23:08:45 tcr: and what does that do? 23:09:14 *must have its own coordinate system inside* 23:09:27 Sikander: all sheets do. read the clim spec on sheets 23:09:36 rahul: Ok, thanks again 23:09:54 pkhuong: Open the respective launchpad site for the #nnnnnn at point 23:09:55 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 23:10:13 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:55 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-0-13.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:12:46 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-246.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 23:13:04 rahul: Great, the sheet is exactly what I need, thanks for being sceptic about my motives! 23:13:04 -!- knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:13:46 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:14:10 bleh, i'm having trouble getting asdf-install to work. 23:15:16 vasilisa: Honestly, don't waste your time trying. Better use clbuild. 23:15:18 knobo [n=user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 23:15:40 is that better? 23:16:02 -!- pfeyz [n=user@146.95.65.217] has left #lisp 23:16:43 Alternatively, try http://libcl.com/ 23:16:49 -!- napsy [n=luka@88.200.96.14] has left #lisp 23:18:20 -!- piso [n=peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:19:10 -!- Willem [n=user@g230125186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:23:48 if you are on gentoo, the lisp overlay may also be an option 23:23:59 good night 23:24:16 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-251-126.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:19 -!- serichsen [n=user@hmbg-4d06cd15.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["the revolution will not be televised"] 23:26:46 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:28:10 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:29:06 -!- gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [] 23:29:28 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-169-28.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:30:21 -!- drewc [n=drewc@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:31:29 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:31:37 if i want to load (text from a file) some function calls at runtime is eval my only option? 23:33:22 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-169-28.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:33:38 Guthur: (load ...) might be an option 23:34:30 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 23:35:46 tsuru: cheers, that is a good suggest 23:38:00 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp118-210-52-33.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:39:12 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590f8313.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:40:08 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:40:33 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-92-195-70-58.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:41:26 lichtblau [n=user@port-92-195-56-124.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:46:30 ziga` [n=user@BSN-142-52-84.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:58 -!- ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.160] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]