00:01:05 -!- confounds [n=jackalop@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 00:01:35 *stassats* macrocollapses them back 00:01:59 Woah, a CL decompiler! 00:02:26 a code compressor 00:03:59 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-69-181-124-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:13 I know someone who worked on that, but with scheme and higher order functions... seems he got interesting compression factors (the target was a small embedded processor) (: 00:04:29 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@pD9E6EE61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:05:08 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@81.84.184.184] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 00:05:44 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:05:59 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@81.84.184.184] has joined #lisp 00:06:23 Ok, the mips machine is now dumping the cold core.. 00:06:27 -!- Kenjin is now known as Guest52002 00:06:30 -!- Guest52002 [n=Kenjin@81.84.184.184] has quit [Client Quit] 00:06:56 does asdf load-system work from the clim inspector ? 00:07:13 pkhuong: Identify design patterns in the code and replace them with (design-pattern foo-pattern bar baz) 00:07:14 deepfire, CL decompiler? 00:07:17 eh clim listener 00:07:33 it freezes the listener here 00:07:41 Fare, no, build slave building 1.0.32 with Krystof's one-liner fix. 00:07:59 one-liner fix? 00:08:12 xristos: (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :clim-listener) as I recall 00:08:14 manuel__ [n=manuel@pD9E6EE61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:34 beach: the listener has a menu item asdf and from there you can do system operations 00:08:41 that's what i'm referring to 00:08:52 Fare, there was a slight problem in src/mips/float.lisp, yes 00:08:55 xristos: Ah, don't know about that. 00:08:57 -!- ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.39] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:09:56 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:09:56 probably you could invoke that command via the command name, would that work? 00:09:58 Fare, erm, not build slave, manual build testing the one-liner, actually 00:10:13 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:10:18 how do i invoke commands 00:10:30 lispm: yup, but only when it's likely to save space. 00:10:36 show directory 00:10:43 :show directory 00:11:29 anyway, I'm switching to Cello 00:11:43 :-) 00:11:54 Tilton made me a convert, sorry guys 00:12:17 good luck lispm :) 00:12:44 if i right click on asd and load system from there i get (ASDF::SYSDEF-ERROR "~@")[:EXTERNAL] 00:12:46 thanks! he demo has great sound effects 00:12:58 his demo 00:13:11 Xach: what is this Categories thing that Mikel Evins talks about? 00:13:19 s/great// 00:13:32 I'm pretty sure that Tilton programs under LSD influence 00:13:34 lispm: how does one get the most up to date cello these days, clbuild? 00:14:00 redline6561: You might want to ask someone else. 00:14:09 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 00:14:13 'up to date' sounds funny in combination with Cello, I like that 00:14:51 beach: thanks. 00:14:51 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 00:15:01 lispm, I hear that LSD increases one's mental capacity.. 00:15:20 it also enhances the colors around you 00:15:37 Catagories are a Mikel Evins invention 00:15:49 his 'object system' 00:16:06 ahhh, that would be why he mentions porting Sheeple to clojure 00:16:06 Anyway, off to bed. Good night everyone! 00:16:20 ampleyfly [n=ampleyfl@fritz.lysator.liu.se] has joined #lisp 00:16:35 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:16:50 Night Robert! 00:16:51 'night beach 00:16:52 RustyWheeler [n=kliese@tecoma.eait.uq.edu.au] has joined #lisp 00:16:58 deepfire, have you have any success with XCVB? Did you bootstrap it or just build it with ASDF? 00:17:45 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-038-199.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:18:02 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 00:18:08 lispm: is completion customizable on clim-listener ? 00:18:19 slava: PLT has C++ only in the GUI (and even that will eventually be ported to Scheme). 00:18:23 "slow" is, of course, relative to how you use a tool, it's fast enough to carry plenty of projects. 00:18:27 I don't know what you mean by "language packs", it's certainly a term that is not used anywhere in the system. 00:18:30 There are a number of "schemes" -- like any lisp system: write a macro and you have a new language. 00:18:33 or does it always produce a popup that i have to click selection with mouse 00:18:35 There are 213410 fewer object systems than what you said: only two, and only one of them is in use for PLT code. (The other is a CLOS-like system.) 00:18:38 Saying that the module system is "nothing special" is absolutely ridiculous: it is an area that PLT has truly done something different and *good* -- and *some* of these ideas were taken from PLT to R6RS, but the PLT module system is still far superior from R6RS implementations. 00:18:42 As for comparisons with SBCL: PLT has existed well before SBCL (but no, it's not as old as CMUCL). 00:18:56 Fare, I found the fasl cache problem intractable head-on, and also unwilling to compromise on disabling it. Hoped that you would've tried a clean xcvb-using-asdf bootstrap on an clc-free sbcl.. 00:19:09 bighouse [n=bighouse@modemcable239.238-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:19:38 -!- RustyWheeler [n=kliese@tecoma.eait.uq.edu.au] has left #lisp 00:19:44 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@166.190.38.21] has joined #lisp 00:20:01 Fare, postponed it a little and focussed on automated stealing of clbuild's project definitions. 00:20:02 xristos: not sure, can't you move the popup with some keyboard commands (arrows, c-p, ...)? 00:20:37 no 00:20:54 Fare, the question is still #1 on TODO, just waiting on I/O, so to speak (as you didn't reply to my last mail) 00:21:18 anyway i'm thinking of doing a screencast of mcclim on osx so that people without access to the os can see how it works 00:21:42 good idea 00:22:07 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 00:23:08 The automated clbuild import, meanwhile, requires automatic mapping of cvs pserver "URI"s into rsync remote URI's, for a clean implementation without loss of functionality. 00:23:29 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Client Quit] 00:23:31 ikki [n=ikki@189.247.72.35] has joined #lisp 00:23:34 -!- lletres_ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-9-111.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:24:03 I'd hate letting git-cvsimport go over the wire when rsync can do the job many times more efficiently. 00:24:12 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 00:24:39 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:24:49 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@pD9E6EE61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:26:10 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@166.190.38.21] has quit ["Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info"] 00:27:04 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:27:23 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCEA26.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 00:28:19 -!- ruediger__ is now known as ruediger 00:28:31 -!- nyquist [n=quassel@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:29:54 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:10 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C25D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:35:16 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has left #lisp 00:36:04 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-69-181-124-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:39:42 I've tried clc-free bootstrap, it works for me 00:39:52 (didn't try with desire, though) 00:41:44 Aha, so the ball in on my side. Will work through it then. 00:42:50 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 00:44:31 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:45:37 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:45:41 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 00:47:05 desire should probably have its own uniform fasl policy, and just configure cl-launch / xcvb into following the same. 00:48:45 Osaka [n=yuki@pool-71-101-104-25.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:34 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:50:20 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-62-202.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:50:24 Fare, I feel like this too, but at this point I don't have any coherent ideas to speak of. 00:50:54 gthompson [n=gaz@91.110.220.57] has joined #lisp 00:51:14 then disable fasl caching uniformly 00:51:54 -!- h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:52:00 Ok, so be it, then. 00:52:04 h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:29 -!- h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:52:41 (or enable uniformly the same way as cl-launch :) 00:54:36 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.34] has joined #lisp 00:54:44 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.247.72.35] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:54:50 confounds [n=jackalop@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:56:47 (*I* would do the cl-launch way, but who am I to say?) 00:56:54 -!- confounds [n=jackalop@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 00:58:29 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-42-242.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:59:36 -!- gthompson [n=gaz@91.110.220.57] has left #lisp 01:03:24 Fare, it's not as much that I want to deviate as that I'm following the path of least resistance about non-desire-domain-specific externalities at this point. 01:03:49 Odin- [n=sbkhh@193.109.18.92] has joined #lisp 01:04:44 Do the libraries you use ever include an infrastructure to configure fasls and/or start from the shell command line? 01:04:54 if not, you might consider adopting cl-launch wholesale 01:05:01 I'm just saying. 01:05:25 nieve [n=nieve@pool-173-77-185-164.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:43 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-56-101.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:07:41 Part of the problem is, I'm not sure what adoption would constitute. I need to read more cl-launch documentation. 01:09:32 well adoption would mean using cl-launch to invoke Lisp and be done with it. 01:09:56 non-adoption I think should mean disabling cl-launch's fasl caching so there is only one policy throughout desire 01:10:17 I think these are the two coherent attitudes wrt cl-launch and desire. 01:10:19 ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.21] has joined #lisp 01:10:53 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 01:11:39 is using a callback mechanism for objects to call methods on the composing class really worth it, or just an over-engineered attempt to decouple objects without really achieving it... 01:11:53 can't help but think it wasn't really worth it 01:12:47 jan247 [n=jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has joined #lisp 01:13:28 Fare, it'd be nice to query cl-launch about a) whether it's installed system-wide or just for this user and b) what are the active options, like fasl cache location 01:13:59 redblue [i=star@ppp156.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:14:05 Or maybe I'm not making sense at all, which is quite possible at 4AM.. 01:14:30 there is no such thing as "system-wide installation" 01:14:44 Yeah, I was beginning to realise that. 01:15:06 except that the cl-launch binary can be configured to look for a ~/.cl-launchrc 01:15:19 which will override its builtin settings 01:15:44 is it the default? 01:16:22 I don't remember 01:17:04 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:17:04 My initial reaction is that sealing this control point off this should be opt-in.. 01:17:20 no the default is to not use a .cl-launchrc, it seems 01:17:43 you could install a cl-launch that has fasl-caching disabled by default 01:17:59 (but then all the files better be in directories with write access) 01:18:18 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-69-181-124-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:15 write access isn't a problem with desire, because you by definition have access rights in order to use git 01:19:46 nieve_ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-153-34.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:16 (which is a policy problem in itself, as ideally you'd want to combine stuff already present system-wide with whatever you download for yourself) 01:21:40 The idea is to have a fluid environment, both for the users and developers, which does TRT most of the time. 01:24:25 then you might consider cl-launch's caching. 01:24:41 which tries to play well with debian-installed stuff 01:24:43 gtg 01:24:45 Okay, the master branch of desire successfully builds and loads xcvb using asdf now, with caching disabled. 01:24:55 ok 01:24:57 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:25:39 A whole new world of experimentation awaits.. 01:28:08 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host86-140-191-199.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 01:28:20 -!- jan247 [n=jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [] 01:28:49 sebaseba [n=carnieri@189.32.41.195] has joined #lisp 01:30:15 -!- nieve [n=nieve@pool-173-77-185-164.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:30:25 h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:05 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:50 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:39:33 pixpop [n=pixpop@12.130.118.27] has joined #lisp 01:40:58 rouslan [n=rouslan@pool-70-109-151-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:22 -!- pixpop [n=pixpop@12.130.118.27] has quit [Client Quit] 01:42:17 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:44:47 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:44:47 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:51:45 I cannot seem to find a theoretical CS forum or IRC channel so I'll assume many here are familiar with this topic. 01:52:00 rouslan: ##computerscience . 01:54:45 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:54:48 Mefached [n=jonathan@66.175.144.84] has joined #lisp 01:55:30 There seems to be few users there; I'll simply ask here. 01:56:10 What are some good texts to read if one is interested in studying theoretical CS in college? I am currently reading HTDP but I should select something next. 01:56:22 minion: tell rouslan about sicp 01:56:23 rouslan: there are even more used in ##gentoo, I'm sure. 01:56:23 rouslan: have a look at sicp: The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available under the CC-BY-NC Licence at (HTML), (Texinfo), and (PDF). Video lectures are available under the CC-BY-SA licence at 01:56:39 I'm trying to learn Lisp mostly through trial and error (it's always been the best way for me to learn something), and I'm screwing around with conditionals right now. When I use an if statement, how do I make the consequent (the one that executes if it's true, if I'm using the wrong word) multiple lines long? 01:56:41 rouslan: neither of those text cover theoretical CS. 01:56:52 Users here have recommended PCL and then PAIP but I looked at the former and it seems to be very "practical." 01:57:00 Mefached: clhs progn 01:57:03 rouslan: There are some rather good books on complexity theory out there. Is that what you're looking for? 01:57:03 hmmm 01:57:14 minion: please tell Mefached about pcl 01:57:14 specbot should have better parsing 01:57:15 Mefached: have a look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 01:57:16 clhs progn 01:57:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_progn.htm 01:57:18 Mefached: just add newlines wherever you want. 01:57:42 sykopomp: he wants trial and error! Don't spoil the fun by giving him a good book! 01:57:53 Mefached: I'm not sure which specific area of theoretical CS I'm interested in yet. I'm looking for something which will serve as an introduction to all/almost all theoretical CS courses. 01:58:10 Adlai, no, I'm not opposed to a book at all, but I'll only refer to it when I'm stumped. I remember things better through experimentation. 01:58:15 Adlai: at this rate, he'll learn about prog1 in a decade. 01:58:23 rouslan: sipser is well regarded. 01:58:30 rouslan: SICP is a very highly recommended book, with the bonus of teaching you a bit of lisp (scheme) on the side 01:58:35 Mefached: hence, PCL. Actual examples. Go write some code. 01:58:40 pjb pasted "multiline if consequent" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89270 01:59:02 sykopomp, 't'was the plan. Thanks for the link, minion. 01:59:04 Adlai: sure, would you also recommend me SICP to learn about electronic engineering? 01:59:37 no :) 01:59:40 Adlai: Yes but HTDP (what I'm currently studying) is very similar. 02:00:51 -!- didi [n=user@189-68-56-226.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:01:26 So it would be worth reading "Introduction to the Theory of Computation" (Sipser) after HTDP? 02:01:29 nice little clozure, i had it put in a $5/mo shared host :-) 02:01:50 fusss: which? 02:01:59 rouslan: before, if it's theoretical CS you want to learn. 02:03:50 pkhuong: Will the text integrate well with future CS courses? (I don't want to "re-learn" curriculum). 02:04:25 Adlai: dunno the name, whatever (concatenate 'string "rev" "squad.com") is on 02:04:28 I should have thought to use list. 02:04:42 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@193.109.18.92] has quit [] 02:04:57 fusss: afraid of getting yourself flagged as a spambot? :P 02:05:01 rouslan: how would I know? It's a classic used in many universities. In the worst case, you get to hack instead of attending lectures. 02:05:10 retupmoca [n=retupmoc@ppp-70-226-85-68.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:12 sssh ;-) 02:05:30 i am avoiding the logs 02:05:44 pkhuong: Ok, thanks! I'll read it in conjunction with HTDP. 02:06:10 Or better, you concentrate on the lecture's interesting content instead of getting stuck in accidental complexity. 02:06:24 schopenhauer [n=schopenh@p1209-ipbf302kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:06:26 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:11:54 -!- HET2 [n=diman@80.3.31.126] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:11:56 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 02:12:11 -!- aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:13:01 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:52 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-42-242.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 02:15:14 what CL implementation would have the smallest memory footprint? something for a hostile shared host that kills auto-kills clozure the second it's launched 02:15:25 -!- schopenhauer [n=schopenh@p1209-ipbf302kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has left #lisp 02:15:27 fusss: clisp or ecl, I guess. 02:15:46 Adlai just told me i can allocate less ram with ccl 02:16:03 fusss: well, VIRT and RES are two different things 02:16:17 -R heap reserve option I guess 02:16:21 yep 02:16:41 CCL on 64-bit platforms grabs a boatload of virt when it starts up 02:16:52 Mefached: it works with strings too. 02:17:01 try starting 'ccl -R 1G' 02:17:03 if you want a smaller heap, go with a 32 bit build. 02:17:05 or vector, or any compound data item. 02:17:17 (that's the smallest amount I could get CCL to reserve) 02:17:22 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-30-156.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:18:13 fusss - or ABCL, given your second requirement 02:18:20 -!- rouslan [n=rouslan@pool-70-109-151-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 02:18:30 it's running now; i am gonna dump a fat image preloaded with all my favorite libs 02:18:50 the problem with ABCL is performance... CCL has great performance (imo) 02:19:08 ayrnieu: i am just trying to have redundant remote compute nodes; nothing critical here 02:19:41 if I can get it to listen on a port, open a socket over SSL and read/write sexps, i am sweet 02:21:07 paddymullen [n=patrickm@cpe-72-229-243-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:23:53 -!- Osaka [n=yuki@pool-71-101-104-25.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:24:34 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:26:39 -!- TDT [n=dthole@254.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has quit [] 02:30:36 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 02:33:43 gary-s [n=gary@200.110.93.227] has joined #lisp 02:35:50 -!- gary-s [n=gary@200.110.93.227] has left #lisp 02:37:16 when you write a macro and you want to document the fact that the macro quotes a certain arguments it receives, what would be the correct terminology for it? And what would be the correct terminology to say that it is evaluated at runtime? 02:38:19 look through the spec 02:38:22 -!- sebaseba [n=carnieri@189.32.41.195] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:38:27 basically, you can say that an argument is "not evaluated" 02:40:53 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:46:05 Ralith_ [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has joined #lisp 02:46:05 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:46:55 -!- joshe [n=joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has left #lisp 02:48:43 Adlai: ah, so it is just that. I saw that before, and found it to be accurate. Yet I did start wondering if there was anything that was currently used (with the spec being a bit old) 02:51:48 the spec is old, full of inconsistencies and bugs, and we all swear by it! 02:52:03 *madnificent* swears by the spec 02:52:11 I think that many documentations try to emulate the spec's style 02:52:13 *madnificent* 's book of gods, is the spec 02:52:31 which isn't necessarily a bad thing 02:57:02 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 02:57:03 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:58:42 -!- ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit ["Coyote finally caught me"] 02:59:30 dgc_ [n=dgc_@189.71.210.184] has joined #lisp 03:01:02 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@93-82-5-94.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:02:51 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:03:46 What is the best Common Lisp implementation for Linux ? 03:04:01 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:04:12 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 03:04:21 dgc_ - SBCL, if you want support from this channel. 03:05:48 ayrniu, ok, thanks! 03:06:20 -!- h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:06:24 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:06:29 h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 03:06:56 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:07:02 ediware-style docs are the best 03:07:58 ahaas [n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-125.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:04 -!- bighouse [n=bighouse@modemcable239.238-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:10:44 -!- fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:12:03 RustyWheeler 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nieve_ mattrepl redblue fisxoj gonzojive_ ace4016 Adlai sellout ampleyfly eno impulse32 rrice ans xinming BrianRice lispm antoszka ltriant helge_ pepone alexbobp Krystof sah0s pjb Guest24708 legumbre Jasko marioxcc Demosthenes borism s0ber_ nipra gaze holycow TR2N seelenquell lichtblau scode_ metric myrkraverk drewc nowhere_man 03:56:08 -!- names: swathanthran jfm3 benny cods lukjad007 ia Lycurgus EinarDog1in Patzy carlocci hugod daniel qidush rdd cmm danlei joga ve tomoyuki28jp Draggor G0SUB_ mikezor CrazyEddy sykopomp Sergio` emma rares Tordek male_terran ramus` piso Ginei_Morioka fe[nl]ix Adrinael asksol Adamant tic Pepe_ araujo nullman pixel5 hsaliak_ mathrick _YKY_ frontiers djinni` pem knobo cmatei__ JuanDaugherty spacebat_ dmiles_afk cmeme coyo stoop anekos redline6561 billstclair 03:56:08 -!- names: bohanlon housel zeroish sytse ryepup udzinari cpt_nemo Soulman aja_ authentic pon][ marcoecc phryk skeptomai|away tsuru Alice_I_W lnostdal stepnem Taggnostr dcrawford lisppaste xristos bdowning leo2007 jyujin_ dmelani l_a_m dalkvist schme tessier maskd Aisling cipher madnificent antifuchs ``Erik beach z0d acieroid Wombatzus boyscared kleppari m4thrick fnordus rbancroft tarbo REPLeffect bfein _3b arbscht yacin fawxtin AntiSpamMeta johs tltstc 03:56:09 -!- names: luis slava phadthai lemoinem Fade Dodek Vonunov whoppix dfox delYsid wgl wlr Bucciarati ineiros mornfall ski blast_hardcheese pragma_ michaelw mle tychoish fgtech nasloc__ qed koollman Buganini Douglish yahooooo Elench mtd xian thijso rotty sepi rey_ rsynnott1 clog mgr Khisanth egn setheus joast Axioplase p_l erg tvaalen rullie DrForr gz kuwabara2 jyujin Guest67387 esden ianmcorvidae mdh srcerer ntd erk smithzv pkhuong vcgomes eihrul jrockway 03:56:09 -!- names: deepfire lharc slather _3b` Xof qebab literal bakkdoor Orest^bnc j0ni gonzojive felipe specbot minion rapacity rlonstein herbieB jsnell hsaliak cow-orker raptelan hdurer__ ecraven hdurer_ r0bby p8m foom looooop sjbach turbo24prg hoeq^ nickcave guaqua codemonk1yx enn dostoyevsky robewald hohum Xach easyE bill` krappie kloeri chii guenthr pok itze PissedNumlock froydnj zbigniew nicktastic Borbus vsync 03:57:09 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:57:11 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:57:15 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 03:57:43 -!- nipra [n=nipra@117.195.98.158] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:02:43 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.202.157] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 04:02:45 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633767.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 04:05:47 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:48 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:06:29 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 04:07:10 fusss_ 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ccl-logbot moocow Axioplas1 pixel5_ Jafet fatalnix1995 rdd` eno G0SUB_ nipra OmniMancer caoliver kpreid slyrus_ spradnyesh ahaas Ralith_ paddymullen retupmoca nieve_ fisxoj gonzojive_ ace4016 Adlai sellout ampleyfly impulse32 rrice ans xinming BrianRice lispm antoszka ltriant helge_ pepone alexbobp Krystof sah0s pjb Guest24708 legumbre Jasko marioxcc Demosthenes borism s0ber_ gaze TR2N seelenquell lichtblau scode_ myrkraverk drewc nowhere_man 04:21:38 -!- names: swathanthran jfm3 benny cods lukjad007 Lycurgus EinarDog1in Patzy daniel qidush danlei joga ve Draggor mikezor CrazyEddy sykopomp Sergio` emma rares Tordek male_terran ramus` piso Ginei_Morioka Adrinael Adamant tic Pepe_ nullman mathrick _YKY_ frontiers djinni` pem knobo JuanDaugherty spacebat_ dmiles_afk cmeme coyo stoop anekos redline6561 billstclair bohanlon housel zeroish sytse ryepup udzinari cpt_nemo Soulman aja_ authentic pon][ marcoecc 04:21:38 -!- names: phryk skeptomai|away tsuru lnostdal stepnem Taggnostr dcrawford lisppaste xristos bdowning leo2007 jyujin_ dmelani l_a_m dalkvist schme tessier maskd Aisling cipher madnificent antifuchs ``Erik beach z0d acieroid Wombatzus boyscared kleppari m4thrick fnordus rbancroft tarbo REPLeffect bfein _3b arbscht yacin fawxtin johs tltstc luis slava lemoinem Fade whoppix dfox delYsid wgl wlr Bucciarati ineiros blast_hardcheese pragma_ michaelw mle tychoish 04:21:38 -!- names: fgtech nasloc__ qed koollman Buganini Douglish yahooooo Elench mtd xian thijso rotty sepi rey_ rsynnott1 mgr Khisanth egn setheus joast p_l erg tvaalen rullie DrForr gz kuwabara2 jyujin Guest67387 esden ianmcorvidae mdh srcerer ntd erk smithzv pkhuong vcgomes eihrul jrockway deepfire slather _3b` Xof qebab literal bakkdoor Orest^bnc j0ni gonzojive felipe specbot minion rapacity jsnell hsaliak cow-orker raptelan hdurer_ r0bby p8m foom looooop 04:21:38 -!- names: froydnj zbigniew nicktastic Borbus vsync PissedNumlock itze pok guenthr chii kloeri krappie bill` easyE Xach hohum robewald dostoyevsky enn codemonk1yx guaqua nickcave hoeq^ turbo24prg sjbach 04:22:03 Dodek [n=dodek@sandbox.dbc.wroc.pl] has joined #lisp 04:22:17 hsaliak_ [n=hsaliak@cm34.sigma72.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:22:27 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-183-99-177.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:41 metric [n=metric@209-20-86-67.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:44 phadthai [i=mmondor@66.11.161.166] has joined #lisp 04:22:57 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.165.8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:23:02 mornfall [n=mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 04:23:03 herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 04:25:14 h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 04:26:05 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-69-181-124-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:25 asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 04:31:41 -!- Axioplas1 is now known as Axioplase 04:31:48 rlonstein [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:31 -!- Axioplase [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit ["leaving"] 04:33:57 hdurer__ [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-ygucrkchjdgaftbl] has joined #lisp 04:34:25 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-52.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 04:34:31 lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 04:34:32 cmatei__ [n=cmatei@82.137.49.217] has joined #lisp 04:34:37 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:35:32 Axioplase [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 04:35:35 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@tomoyuki28jp.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 04:35:44 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 04:41:33 -!- rrice [n=rrice@adsl-76-244-150-49.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:45:06 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:34 Good morning! 04:46:20 hey beach 04:46:26 Good wee hours of the morning. 04:46:37 I was actually just looking at your site, and I noticed something which might not be correct... 04:47:31 on http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/Common-Lisp/ressources-web.html I think you attribute the "Comparison of Lisp and Java" to NASA, but it was just done informally on comp.lang.lisp, and the writeup is by Peter Norvig who just worked for NASA. 04:47:44 I don't think the study itself was affiliated with NASA, though 04:48:04 ... xkcd.com today is great trip on memory lane :D 04:48:24 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 04:49:47 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@70.31.21.23] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:50:08 p_l: you had roomies that nuked your wifi? 04:50:10 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:50:22 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 04:51:09 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:51:28 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:43 caoliver: I meant the design of the page 04:53:48 so if you read it through rss, you wouldn't notice 04:54:15 Ugly as it is, it makes me a bit nostalgic. I worked in ISP then, and there was a lot less gratuitous complexity. 04:54:49 caoliver: you mean, the gratuitous complexity was just all in the "beautiful soup" of user HTML code? 04:55:04 Modern webdev gives me the serious irits. 04:55:34 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:57:06 heh, look right at the bottom... "GOTO 10" 04:58:01 impulse32 [n=impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442135.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:01:01 Adlai: That comparison was done by Ron Garret at NASA. 05:01:47 envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 05:02:10 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:02:15 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:02:22 emacsphan [n=user@134.215.217.86] has joined #lisp 05:02:53 I don't think NASA was part of doing the study, though. I could also be misinterpreting your page, je ne parle pas francais... 05:03:15 Adlai: The link seems dead, but let me try to dig up the paper... 05:03:19 -!- envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:03:39 http://norvig.com/java-lisp.html 05:03:50 or at least, it used to be there 05:05:43 Adlai: http://web.archive.org/web/20070418074825/www.flownet.com/gat/papers/lisp-java.pdf 05:05:52 http://www.flownet.com/gat/papers/lisp-java.pdf 05:05:56 at least that's what I found through wayback machine 05:06:05 p_l: no need to go to archive, the paper is still there 05:06:26 Adlai: the link is like this because I followed the links from archive of the original url :) 05:06:44 Adlai: It clearly says he is working at JPL, which means to me that he is representing it. 05:06:53 beach: my bad, the last sentance of the paper is conclusive. 05:07:35 *Adlai* was always under the impression that this was a very informat study cobbled together on c.l.l, but it seems otherwise! 05:07:37 So it is. 05:07:52 [conclusive that is] 05:09:08 envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 05:09:15 sorry about that confusion :\ 05:09:23 Not a problem. 05:15:04 what should I make of 05:15:09 decoding error on stream # (:EXTERNAL-FORMAT :UTF-8): the octet sequence (175) cannot be decoded. 05:15:35 Ralith: You are trying to read UTF-8, but probably have some other encoding such as Latin 1. 05:17:29 hm, okay 05:18:14 any way to find out what restarts that error should give me? 05:18:15 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-30-156.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:18:29 -!- emacsphan [n=user@134.215.217.86] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:18:35 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.34] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:18:38 Ralith: you're not in SLIME? 05:18:39 In SBCL, you usually get the option to resynchronize. 05:19:14 ender [n=ender@99-162-151-16.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:25 it was in another thread. 05:19:36 Ralith: if you're encountering the error programmatically: 05:19:37 Perhaps stupid question: should a x86_64 linux SBCL built on an Intel machine run correctly on an AMD, or do I have to do two distinct builds. 05:19:39 clhs compute-restarts 05:19:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_comp_1.htm 05:19:45 clhs invoke-restart 05:19:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_invo_1.htm 05:20:03 *Ralith* considers this a reminder to start using select 05:20:09 Adlai: where can I find docs on chanl select again? 05:20:36 Ralith: http://github.com/adlai/chanl/ 05:20:58 just scroll down, the entire API is in the readme. 05:21:04 nice 404 05:21:05 >_> 05:21:12 caoliver: no, we don't use anything but straight x86-64. 05:21:24 Ralith: hmmmm 05:21:55 github is down 05:21:57 look in README.mkdn in the top directory of your ChanL clone 05:22:07 already there 05:22:11 or (documentation 'select 'function) 05:22:42 macro documentation gets lumped with functions... clearly a horrible flaw in our language. 05:22:44 Ok. I can just rsync the build to the one lonely AMD. Thanks! 05:24:29 Adlai: incidentally, aren't there about 1.5x more parens in select than necessary? 05:24:53 Ralith: no more extra parens than there are in COND -- it's got implicit PROGNs. 05:25:16 oh, right, didn't think of that cuz of the example's use of oneliners 05:25:44 yeah, if you come up with a better example, "patches welcome". 05:27:42 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.58.146] has joined #lisp 05:30:29 egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has joined #lisp 05:30:34 caoliver: so far x86_64 sbcl doesn't go out of amd64 instruction set, afaik 05:31:00 -!- egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has quit [Client Quit] 05:31:08 Adlai: does select handle return? 05:31:19 i.e. create a block nil or w/e 05:31:20 egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has joined #lisp 05:31:45 yes, you can (RETURN &optional form), and that takes you straight out of the select 05:35:55 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-105-20.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:36:32 Ralith: you were talking about some errors across threads earlier. Would it be useful for you to have programmatic control of conditions between threads? 05:36:59 I have some half-explored ideas of using channels to extend the CL condition system between threads 05:39:16 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:39:58 Adlai: not immensely 05:40:03 just trying to work out what triggered this error 05:40:12 and how to prevent it from bringing down the bot 05:41:06 I can never reproduce it 05:41:10 well, with this system, you could have the bot report conditions to the channel, and have an admin debug it live. You'd be able to invoke any restarts in the buggy handler. 05:41:26 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-105-20.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:42:51 Adlai: right now I'm more interested in working out what condition to catch and how to continue from it :P 05:43:17 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:43:18 any tips? 05:43:25 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-105-20.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:43:28 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 05:44:55 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:45:09 anyone? 05:45:36 right now I have no idea what to do short of wrapping the thing in (loop (ignore-errors ...)) 05:46:03 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 05:46:49 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:46:57 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-105-20.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:47:13 Ralith: ok, here's one possibility 05:47:20 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:47:22 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 05:47:51 look in examples/conditions.lisp 05:49:07 make a channel at the toplevel 05:49:57 wrap the code causing the condition with the with-condition-dumper macro, using that channel 05:50:14 Adlai: what part of "I can't reproduce this..." :P 05:50:47 the part where you said, "I'm more interested in working out what condition to catch and how to continue from it" 05:50:59 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 05:51:25 this will enable you to inspect conditions signaled by the thread, and check what restarts they have available 05:51:37 -!- rares [n=rares@130.13.176.255] has left #lisp 05:52:08 Adlai: I can't reproduce the error! 05:52:11 >.< 05:52:19 forget about chanl for now 05:52:23 -!- egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 05:52:25 how did it happen? ie, what message to the bot caused it? 05:52:34 indeterminate 05:52:44 repeating all recent messages before disconnect to the bot does not reproduce 05:52:52 egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has joined #lisp 05:53:15 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-105-20.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:53:40 can you paste the commands, and which handlers were active? 05:53:58 (unless you know at least which handler caused the problem) 05:54:05 it wasn't a handler 05:54:08 look at the damn error :P 05:54:31 by "handlers" I mean Thune's handlers, not condition handlers. 05:54:45 isn't that what you call the hooks that run on each message? 05:54:55 Adlai: *read the error* 05:55:53 ok, I take that to mean that none of Thune's handlers do anything with streams, so this error came from the thread actually grabbing messages from IRC. 05:55:59 yes. 05:56:13 because it would make no sense at all for *message* handlers to be reading from the socket. 05:56:50 well, sykobot had several handlers which performed web searches, and they often died during those. That would give encoding errors too. 05:58:04 none of those are involved. 05:58:28 otherwise it would be trivial to reproduce just by passing similar args :P 05:59:42 I just need to know how to handle and continue from this. 06:00:05 hmm, it occurs to me that the message causing the error wouldn't show up in Thune's logs 06:00:33 that's correct 06:00:41 so how do I handle and continue from a stream decoding error? 06:01:04 do you know what condition type the error was? 06:01:10 no 06:01:14 if I did I would not be asking how to handle it 06:02:02 ski [n=slj@85.224.19.212] has joined #lisp 06:02:02 lexa_ [n=lexa_@83.222.5.112] has joined #lisp 06:02:05 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 06:02:07 ideally I'd like to be able to drop in a U+FFFD instead 06:02:15 vandemar [i=holy@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has joined #lisp 06:02:28 I can help you with using ChanL to debug your bot, but I can't help you with SBCL internals. I think Krystof or Xof know more about that. 06:03:07 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has quit [Client Quit] 06:03:17 -!- ski [n=slj@85.224.19.212] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:03:38 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hjcwhtueikdldlcp] has left #lisp 06:04:09 Adlai: I'd rather not depend on SBCL internals. 06:04:17 is it impossible to portably handle a stream decoding error? 06:05:00 -!- cmatei__ [n=cmatei@82.137.49.217] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:05:46 you could at least establish a handler for stream-error, but the spec isn't very specific about what restarts or subtypes of that condition should be provided. 06:06:21 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pqxxaruqoihmrimr] has joined #lisp 06:06:46 clhs stream-error 06:06:46 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442135.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 06:06:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/e_stm_er.htm 06:08:00 looks like that's the most specific CL subclass 06:08:04 so now I just need a list of restarts 06:08:14 which requires me to fake a stream decoding error somehow 06:08:40 that list of restarts won't be portable 06:08:52 good morning 06:08:54 I think that instead, you should establish your own restart in ircl 06:09:22 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@83.222.5.112] has left #lisp 06:09:37 ie, bind a restart in ircl:get-message 06:09:58 -!- egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:10:00 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pqxxaruqoihmrimr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:10:03 Adlai: that would result in data loss 06:10:18 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-oezdfdwaezbeushc] has joined #lisp 06:10:51 ok, so find a non-portable solution 06:11:00 egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has joined #lisp 06:11:13 -_- 06:11:29 or repeatedly read-char in ircl:get-message 06:11:42 so that you can accumulate the message up to the point where the error occured 06:11:50 seems like the only way 06:11:50 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-oezdfdwaezbeushc] has quit [Client Quit] 06:11:57 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ruynjejauusssfzf] has joined #lisp 06:14:01 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:14:37 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 06:14:39 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 06:15:16 Ralith: I'm having some socket trouble myself :) 06:15:59 streams seem stupidly fragile in CL >:/ 06:17:15 no, they're just very thinly specified because they're such an implementation-specific topic 06:18:22 well SBCL implements them very fragilely. 06:21:30 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:24:13 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["May the Coyoes cook you some hot chili some day!"] 06:25:07 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:07 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 06:27:46 -!- ender is now known as enderman 06:29:00 -!- enderman is now known as enderman401 06:29:04 Ralith: how so? 06:31:33 Adlai: my app crashes without carefully managed special handling :P 06:31:49 isn't that a problem with your app, then? 06:32:30 milanj [n=milan@93.87.150.237] has joined #lisp 06:32:33 s/my app/any app which does anything with text streams/ 06:32:36 christ, don't be difficult :P 06:32:43 -!- enderman401 is now known as enderman 06:32:58 I was just trying to find this condition that you got, and I couldn't reproduce it. 06:33:31 and anyways, apps which use text streams should be prepared to handle junk in those streams 06:34:03 ski [n=slj@c-d413e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:35:06 Adlai: yeah, but it'd be nice if "explode" wasn't the default option :P 06:36:21 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:36:35 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 06:36:43 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 06:36:50 -!- enderman [n=ender@99-162-151-16.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 06:39:35 koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.108.152] has joined #lisp 06:46:22 rares [n=rares@130.13.176.255] has joined #lisp 06:46:47 how do I set up slime on debian? 06:47:30 minion: give rares clbuild 06:47:31 rares: please see clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 06:48:06 gonzojive_ [n=red@128.12.249.103] has joined #lisp 06:48:21 i got it up 06:52:27 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 06:53:07 -!- egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:53:58 Axius [n=ojof@92.82.78.134] has joined #lisp 06:56:41 rstandy [n=rastandy@93.144.36.224] has joined #lisp 06:58:33 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2FD71.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:59:40 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:04:38 robsynnott [n=robertsy@89.100.143.184] has joined #lisp 07:05:39 -!- robsynnott [n=robertsy@89.100.143.184] has quit [Client Quit] 07:07:33 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 07:10:43 Fufie [n=innocent@80.203.225.86] has joined #lisp 07:20:25 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:20:54 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 07:20:58 good morning 07:23:13 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:23:27 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 07:23:33 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 07:26:47 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:26:57 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 07:29:29 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:29:40 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 07:32:03 KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:58 fiveop [n=fiveop@e179161048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:35:01 -!- anekos [n=anekos@219.102.75.200] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:39:03 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@80.203.225.86] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:39:52 ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 07:42:01 redblue [i=star@ppp083.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 07:45:45 i wish i never brought up the order of restart in slime... now i got rid of my patch, and it's been reverted in head... what a mess 07:46:11 just because of some 'whiners', to quote the language used on the list 07:48:26 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:48:27 attila_lendvai: I also 'whined' on the first occasion, but I like it very much, now that I've tried 07:48:49 good morning 07:49:13 now, ACCEPT remains the same number and that's my favourite restart :) 07:49:16 kami-: that's my point. it was in the repo for a whole ONE day... 07:49:32 attila_lendvai: in the official repo, you mean? 07:49:36 yes 07:50:07 was it changed unconditionally, or was it available through a setting/flag? 07:50:52 (setq slime-restarts-reverse-order t) 07:51:11 tcr didn't apply my patch, but rather reimplemented it, then i unpulled mine from our darcs branch, and now i need to do something again because it was rolled back. 07:51:33 unless tcr has plans to add it with a customization variable... 07:51:37 ASau [n=user@host168-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 07:52:31 -!- envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:52:39 attila_lendvai: if it wasn't done in the first place /with/ a customisation variable, then I understand that people objected. 07:53:46 One has to be careful about /default/ behaviour of a software system. People get used to things and can get quite irate when those things change. 07:53:50 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@128.12.249.103] has quit [] 07:54:27 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-31-242.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:54:35 kami-: there are always whiners, and they are much-much louder than the mass. madhu didn't even see the patch, he was complaining based on the commit message... 07:54:58 <_3b> doesn't mean it wasn't a valid complaint :) 07:55:07 *_3b* suspects both workflows are valied and useful 07:55:11 <_3b> *valid 07:55:11 kami-: my answer to them is usually that if they are afraid of change then stop pulling new patches 07:55:24 Now for something completely different, attila_lendvai. I am trying to revive recreate-model-data and with-read-lock-held-on-model seems to be gone. 07:55:46 or was it only renamed? 07:56:43 _3b: i don't get why... because you need shortcuts for something you want to press automatically. if restarts are always numbered randomly, then you pretty much need to look there, find the currently assigned number before you can press the button. with this effort you can easily navigate there with the caret and press enter 07:56:57 <_3b> attila_lendvai: depends on what the restarts mean 07:58:00 kami-: levy removed it, more-or-less valid: you are not supposed to redefine classes in a running threaded system, so that lock stuff is useless (and it was not implemented anyway) 07:58:58 <_3b> attila_lendvai: made up example off the top of my head: cleaning up data, where you want say 'drop datum' 'replace with default' 'replace with specified' restarts, always on 0,1,2 08:00:39 <_3b> or asdf restarts, where if i don't want q i usually want 0 or 1 08:00:41 _3b: i know, but that's much less generally true and is less often the case, imho. and if it is, and you need to press them a million times, then you should assign shortcuts to them... but that shouldn't be the default 08:01:04 <_3b> right, not saying it shouldn't be the default, just that it shouldn't be the /only/ option 08:02:12 <_3b> people who use that setup might argue the default, you actively use the other, so would argue for the new numbering, i'd probably find both just as annoying, so don't care beyond it wasting slime dev time that could be used elsewhere :) 08:03:09 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:03:24 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:03:37 well, as heller prefers 'clean and simple' code, he will consider a patch like that as too much and undo it anyway, so... no options. 08:03:52 <_3b> yeah, that is a different issue :/ 08:04:26 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:04:40 <_3b> could always just be yet another contrib or something :) 08:05:01 bah, i should have kept on ignoring slime HEAD and do what i prefer. now that it was rolled back i'll have to redo my patch... while i think that spending dev time on slime is a waste beyond short time paybacks 08:06:22 *_3b* has just given up on worrying about having a sane UI in anything emacs related :p 08:07:46 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:09:03 -!- sah0s [n=anto@10.134.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [] 08:10:43 morning 08:14:29 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-68-90.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:18:09 envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 08:19:32 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6BBF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:36 lpolzer [n=lpolzer@88.73.203.95] has joined #lisp 08:19:42 spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:19:46 Good morning 08:20:07 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:21 hello spiaggia 08:22:49 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 08:22:51 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 08:25:09 KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:01 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:29:00 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.82.78.134] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:29:23 the McCLIM wiki points to an image on each page that is no longer there: http://ww.telent.net/mcclim.cliki.png 08:29:42 unfortunately it is not in the directly editable parts of the page 08:29:53 like http://mcclim.cliki.net/Screenshot 08:31:15 Edward_ [n=Ed@81.249.199.126] has joined #lisp 08:35:07 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:35:13 demmel [n=Adium@188.98.203.107] has joined #lisp 08:36:41 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:38:54 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:39:37 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:40:10 robsynnott [n=robertsy@89.100.143.184] has joined #lisp 08:43:25 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@93.144.36.224] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:50:26 sah0s [n=anto@10.134.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:52:09 Joreji [n=thomas@43-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:55:51 simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:56:17 ericjames [n=ericjeld@205.149.71.84] has joined #lisp 08:59:39 Harag [n=phil@41.208.200.164] has joined #lisp 09:01:50 -!- sah0s [n=anto@10.134.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [] 09:02:40 Harag pasted "Abstracting Pattern Help Needed" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89276 09:04:30 I need some help pulling an abstraction/pattern from a certain code cenario if anybosy has a moment to help me see it in a more lispy way...thanx 09:05:37 why do you want a macro? 09:05:48 a macro a function 09:05:51 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-52.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:05:51 does not matter 09:05:59 the line still blurs for me 09:06:21 it does matter, functions are simpler 09:06:24 *_3b* assumes that is a macro just to avoid the (lambda () ...) around body 09:07:03 lispm: I agree they are simpler 09:07:04 <_3b> where does the stream var go? 09:07:25 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6BBF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 09:07:31 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-52.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 09:07:51 _3b:the stream var should be available for body so that logging can be doen 09:07:58 so, what is the question, then? 09:08:40 <_3b> ah, magic symbols, gues that is another reason to have it a macro (if one some would argue isn't a good reason :p ) 09:09:08 _3b: it would just pass the stream to a function as an argument 09:09:48 lispm: the question is how do I make the LET part user defined as well...it does not have to be a let but I need to do some custom processing which the results of are also available to the body 09:09:52 <_3b> lispm: no reason to, since only the body code uses it :p 09:10:13 <_3b> Harag: just pass in parameters to define it, and build the code you want 09:10:14 I would make the body a function 09:11:56 -!- G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.98.45] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:12:17 lispm: I have no idea what the body needs to do and what additional data it needs so how do define such a function? 09:12:49 Harag: the idea is that you accept a function for the body, and pass in appropriate parameters 09:12:52 If there is a completely different way of doing it I am open to suggestions 09:12:56 (I think) 09:13:08 <_3b> Harag: so do you just want a (&rest bindings) in your macro arglist, and ,@bindings in the let binding list? 09:13:47 I'll answer the function question later. 09:13:57 let's look at the macro 09:14:12 the macro name should make it visible that it is a macro 09:14:30 parsing-csv-file or with-csv-file-parsed 09:14:32 _3b: that sounds like what I want but to be honest I only have a vague idea of what you are talking about 09:14:34 would be names 09:14:48 next a parameter list for a macro is more like 09:15:30 defmacro ... ((file log-file ...) &body body 09:15:42 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 09:15:43 -!- kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:15:57 what I am aiming for is taking care of the plumbing of opening the csv file and parsing without knowing what the user of the function/macro is up to 09:15:58 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 09:16:00 that allows to use arbitrary args to parameterize the body 09:16:19 ok 09:16:40 or if you want to add bindings: 09:17:13 *Harag* googles bindings 09:17:21 (defmacro parsing-csv-file ((file log-file) bindings &body body) ...) 09:17:50 attila_lendvai: *developer-machine-names* is also gone? 09:18:06 (parsing-csv-file ("foo" "bar") ((a 1) (b 2)) (do-this) (do-that)) 09:18:32 when designing a macro, you should start from the surface code 09:18:41 how should your code look like 09:18:54 I would use the functional way 09:19:19 lispm: is still think in terms of what I want it to do and not what it should look like..maybe that is my problem 09:19:20 (parse-csv-file file -log-file (lambda (log-stream) (do-something ...)) 09:20:26 I don't know what the do-csv-file does 09:20:43 it is like do list 09:20:46 dolist 09:22:49 Younder [n=jthing@22.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 09:23:26 if you need let bindings, your need to put them into the macro arg list 09:23:40 see the WITH-OPEN-FILE macro usage in your code 09:24:01 it binds a variable and gets a list of options 09:24:18 c|mell [n=cmell@95.58.49.160] has joined #lisp 09:24:19 sah0s [n=anto@10.134.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:24:22 enclosed in parentheses 09:25:46 Hi Adlai. What's on your plate today? 09:25:53 Axius [n=ojof@92.82.78.134] has joined #lisp 09:26:10 lispm: thanx alot 09:26:24 I will have a go at it... 09:26:41 just post a new version and let us have a look 09:27:53 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@43-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:28:09 kami-: the way stuff is loaded has been reorganized. now it's explicit when things are started in test mode (although there was an assert for dev machines which i'm not happy that is gone, but levy was doing these things alone) 09:28:53 kami-: but i don't know how things change, maybe it was just renamed 09:29:16 although i can't find it, so it was probably just deleted 09:29:24 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:30:17 -!- nipra [n=nipra@117.195.98.45] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:30:23 attila_lendvai: I could start a test cluster. Thank you. But, now I'm stuck with sth. else during recreate-model-data: "The function HU.DWIM.META-MODEL::HASH-VALUE-OF is undefined." 09:30:25 tcr: are you planning to add the restart ordering with a customize variable? (because then i'll delay pulling/reapplying my restart numbering patch) 09:30:47 nipra [n=nipra@117.195.96.223] has joined #lisp 09:30:49 G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.96.223] has joined #lisp 09:30:52 kami-: most probably a package problem 09:31:45 -!- sah0s [n=anto@10.134.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [] 09:32:26 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:35:48 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:58 attila_lendvai: No, I really am convinced it's wrong now :) 09:38:19 I'll happily add a slime-stefil contrib though 09:39:45 tcr: we usually have an 'emacs' dir in our projects for emacs extensions, but i'm ok with a stefil contrib too... if you need to patch stefil, then feel free 09:40:27 I haven't looked to closely on it yet though I'm sure I'll like it on its interactive grounds 09:40:32 tcr: although i won't add a contrib for all the usages... we'll stick to reverse order and let the rest of world install/learn shortcuts... :) 09:41:03 i mean all the apps we wrote, like the web server, etc... 09:41:23 So long I always grab rt.lisp and put domain-specific testing stuff on top of it 09:41:30 the renumbering or restarts always confused me, and ever since i reversed it i'm happy with it, so... 09:42:35 I think I'll try to get used to invoking them by name 09:42:39 i think there's nothing as cool as defun's when it comes to testing... we used 5am for a while, but the extra complexity of (run-test 'foo) only brings headaches 09:42:49 s/or/of/ 09:43:51 Well, I think you need interactive support if non-readable objects are involved 09:45:46 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:48:10 in that case you either need a my-read-from-string, or customize make-load-form, or a serializer that handles serialization... but fasl's can not cope with non-readable objects. 09:48:41 the only thing i can think of is compilation, but stefil also has a :compile-before-run t keyword arg 09:49:16 I mean when a test case fails and it involves non-readable objects; you cannot just copy&paste the form. 09:49:38 that's the case when you need more than rt.lisp 09:49:51 ah, i get it 09:50:30 but then i think the whole idea of using instrumented defuns for testing makes it a much better experience, even when you can copy-paste... 09:51:47 what's the point of instrumented defuns? 09:53:06 a test suite is like an app using your lib, only it concentrates on full code coverage and breaking it... 09:53:16 with defun's you don't need to learn new stuff 09:53:31 and you can 'enter' the test suite anywhere 09:53:41 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:54:01 you can factor out stuff (call defun's from defun's, test combinatorical issues trivially, etc) 09:54:07 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:54:38 I'll definitively look at stefil at some point. 09:54:48 and all stefil does is provide a place where you can record things with the assert macros and hands it back with a bunch of inspector customizations 09:55:26 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E1D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:55:35 and makes sure that your fixtures are setup/teardown only as many times as necessary. 09:56:19 notsonerdysunny [n=chatzill@121.243.167.99] has joined #lisp 09:56:45 (although the inspector customizations won't work on slime head because i extended the inspector. but the lack of it doesn't take away too much from stefil...) 09:57:19 -!- ericjames [n=ericjeld@205.149.71.84] has quit [] 09:57:59 saikatc [n=saikat@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:14 I rewrote large parts of the inspectors but I haven't applied the patch yet 09:58:42 great, i'll have to merge then. but that's life of the outcast... 09:59:03 although i've also touched the protocol, extended with inspectable type info 09:59:19 that's the sensitive part of the stefil customizations 09:59:26 what for? 09:59:57 because i often needed a simple way to go the type-of/class-of path in the inspector 10:00:22 -!- envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:00:25 also, i needed often a way to copy down to the repl what is being inspected 10:00:43 Yeah I (re?)enabled presentations in the inspector 10:03:07 factoring out presentation (and many other stuff) into a 'plugin' was a big mistake... it just makes integration cumbersome due to the limits of the 'plugin' interface, while 99% of the people will need the repl/inspector. typical political decision in the hope that it will make life easier with the many 'whining' contributors, but technically a mistake (imho) 10:03:09 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:03:35 ...although if a (the) maintainer is in the 1% then... 10:03:51 but i'm getting political myself here, which is a waste of time 10:04:33 No the problem is that the stuff was never factored out into a plugin. 10:05:18 the contrib stuff is not a plugin architecture 10:05:21 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:05:42 imho the code itself should have been factored, maybe plugins introduced, but definitely not push the limits by putting the repl/inspector into the contribs... 10:06:22 whatever, the point is the same whichever word is used 10:06:37 the contrib system is nothing else but a mechanism to load code selectively / lazily 10:06:43 i know 10:07:22 I agree with you, but I grow at peace with the situation 10:07:24 but now the code gets full of (defvar foo-function 'dumb-foo-impl) (funcall foo-function) 10:07:56 KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:52 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:09:03 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 10:11:23 tiri [i=tiri@ppp-196-29-32-196.utande.co.zw] has joined #lisp 10:11:35 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.249.234] has joined #lisp 10:12:54 ecraven [n=nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:15:23 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:16:47 -!- tiri [i=tiri@ppp-196-29-32-196.utande.co.zw] has left #lisp 10:18:08 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:50 KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:49 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.82.78.134] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:20:30 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:00 Axius [n=ojof@92.82.78.134] has joined #lisp 10:25:38 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-52.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 10:25:46 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp083.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:29:27 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.254.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:31:37 -!- gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [] 10:32:16 attila_lendvai: I have a strange error during make-instance of one of my entities. Although the slot is defined (a 1:n ref to another entity), make-instance complains. 10:32:21 kami- pasted "invalid initialization argument" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89284 10:33:13 contained-in is defined in the second defassociation 10:37:56 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:39:37 -!- G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.96.223] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:39:37 -!- nipra [n=nipra@117.195.96.223] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:43:15 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:44:46 serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06ddab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:47 hello 10:49:23 kami-: no idea. random guess: you need defassociation* or something to make it generate the default :initform? 10:49:52 kami-: you can try supplying a :initform :contained-in as a try to the defassociation 10:53:02 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-36-224.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 10:54:04 joswig [n=joswig@e177125031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:55:45 -!- jfm3 [n=user@c-98-221-112-35.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has left #lisp 10:56:07 -!- joswig [n=joswig@e177125031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:58:26 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@95.58.49.160] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:58:57 anekos [n=anekos@61.197.117.56] has joined #lisp 11:01:59 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:02:16 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 11:02:33 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.82.78.134] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:03:15 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177156105.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:04:12 nyquist [n=quassel@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:07:16 -!- demmel [n=Adium@188.98.203.107] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:08:01 kami-` [n=user@p5B20E77D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:19 -!- saikatc [n=saikat@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 11:17:34 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:18:46 Guthur [n=Michael@host86-140-191-199.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:20:23 Odin- [n=sbkhh@193.109.18.92] has joined #lisp 11:22:09 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 11:23:01 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:31:53 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:15 Axius [n=ojof@92.82.78.134] has joined #lisp 11:38:15 sunwukong [n=vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:39:10 Edward__ [n=Ed@81.249.197.132] has joined #lisp 11:42:38 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:45:33 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@81.249.199.126] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:45:59 -!- Younder [n=jthing@22.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:47:16 fatalnix2995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:55 demmel [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 11:49:17 -!- demmel [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:51:18 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ruynjejauusssfzf] has left #lisp 11:52:20 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.82.78.134] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:53:20 RFC http://t-b-o-g.blogspot.com/2009/10/brians-brain-on-clojure.html 11:54:09 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:54:50 Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 11:55:08 i see only clojure code 11:55:09 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:55:22 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 11:55:32 Younder [n=jthing@22.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 11:55:56 -!- fatalnix2995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:58:31 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 11:58:34 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:59:15 stassats: that's right. common lisp is on its way. 12:00:57 fatalnix2995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:16 demmel [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:05:41 -!- robsynnott [n=robertsy@89.100.143.184] has quit [] 12:05:59 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:06:56 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:07:01 Nshag [i=user@193.248.205.252] has joined #lisp 12:10:46 I'm getting an error from clbuild when it tries to update cl-vectors 12:11:05 anybody else getting a "errno=Connection refused" ? 12:11:25 Adlai: do you know who is refusing the connection? 12:11:41 cods: the full line is: git.tuxee.net[0: 82.241.80.108]: errno=Connection refused 12:11:55 oh, ok. Fixing it then :) 12:12:10 I had to reboot my server yesterday, I think this service failed to start. 12:12:23 Adlai: can you retry please? 12:12:23 oh, ok. Yeah, just start the git daemon again 12:12:56 I skipped the project when it failed, but in a few minutes the rest of the clbuild update should complete, and then I'll update it again. 12:13:13 thanks for the quick response! 12:13:20 thanks for reporting the problem! :) 12:16:08 Harag annotated #89276 "Maybe Right now.." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89276#1 12:17:13 I see lispm is not here any more but think I got his instructions right... 12:17:41 <_3b> Harag: i'd probably make the logging optional if you won't always use it 12:17:41 clhs list 12:17:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_list.htm 12:18:48 -!- fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:19:01 _3b: ok 12:20:44 <_3b> Harag: also, having the body use symbols from the macro like that is sometimes considered bad style 12:22:06 _3b: what is the alternative? 12:22:17 <_3b> like consider what would happen if you had a list of files in a file, and wanted to nest calls to that macro, the inner call wouldn't be able to access the vars from the outer call 12:22:29 <_3b> Harag: pass the vars to the macro from the calling code 12:23:34 _3b: which macro mine or the parse-csv-file 12:23:53 <_3b> in this case, if the goal is just to make a convenient shortcut for your use as opposed to being part of the API, leaving it as is might be OK 12:23:56 <_3b> your macro 12:24:32 <_3b> wait, did you mean do-csv-file? 12:24:51 *_3b* interpreted it that way, since i thought parse-csv-file was your macro 12:25:18 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:25:18 _3b: but I am passing the variables to my macro in bindings...if I dont pus tit in the let then I cant see it in the body? 12:25:37 <_3b> i mean STREAM, FIELDS and NUM-FIELDS 12:25:47 _3b: sorry yes I meat do-csv-file 12:26:35 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@81.249.197.132] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 12:27:02 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-253-198.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 12:29:15 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:29:15 _3b: ok let me get this right you are saying that I should pass STREAM, FIELDS and NUM-FIELDS to do-csv-file or to the body 12:29:33 <_3b> no, i'm saying you should understand the implications of not doing so :) 12:29:41 lol 12:29:43 bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has joined #lisp 12:30:13 I am trying to understand the how...I think I can see that it would be cleaner 12:30:49 except that do-csv-file is not my macro so I ant change that ...should I wrap the body in a lambda that passes all the variable? 12:31:47 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:32:20 _3b annotated #89276 "like that" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89276#2 12:33:19 <_3b> notice how do-csv-file expects you to provide variable names (FIELDS and NUM-FIELDS) instead of making up its own names 12:33:29 damn I love this place, learning so much stuff just by reading :P 12:35:02 <_3b> in this case, it starts to get ugly, so if it is just a convenience function for repl use or whatever, i wouldn't worry about it 12:36:27 nope it needs to be the guts of my importer package. I am looking at reusing it for various imports into the same system...its gonna be a couple hundred thousand lines each month that needs to be impoerted 12:36:37 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:37:50 <_3b> possibly you would be better off with just a with-log-file macro? 12:38:03 _3b: I have the source code for do-csv-file and could hack it in theory but this is a good learning excersize and I dont have another piece of code to support then 12:38:04 cods: update worked (already up-to-date, but the connection was made). Thanks! 12:38:14 <_3b> aside from the with-open-file settings, it doesn't look like you get much from that macro 12:38:46 <_3b> not sure what you would change about do-csv-file 12:39:06 wat I get is not having to write the opening and closing of log files etc for a whole lot of import programs 12:39:12 -!- fatalnix2995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:39:36 fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:52 <_3b> (also, don't you usually append log files?) 12:40:44 the log file is for the import only the logfile name will be something I generte else where 12:40:55 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 12:41:01 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-36-224.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:41:27 <_3b> i'm saying (with-log-file "logfile" (let ((some-var 1)) (do-csv-file ((foo bar) "csvfile") (...)) isn't much worse than the way you would use what you have 12:42:27 ok kewl I have never use with-log-file 12:42:37 <_3b> i'm suggesting to write it :) 12:42:55 bwhaha rofl 12:43:15 <_3b> basically just a shortcut for the with-open-file in your current macro 12:43:50 ok theoretically to "pass" the to the body by wrapping it in a lambda be the right/lispy way to do things 12:44:41 -!- fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:44:42 <_3b> did you miss a word or 2 there? 12:45:14 Adlai: ok 12:45:40 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:45:40 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 12:45:53 fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:30 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 12:46:30 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:46:35 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:46:40 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 12:48:05 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.199.192] has joined #lisp 12:48:06 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:48:25 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 12:50:19 lol yes well 12:51:17 let me try it and then show you the code ... then try then talk about it 12:51:34 <_3b> ok 12:51:52 thanx again 12:52:00 -!- fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:53:11 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:37 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 12:54:38 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-105-20.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:54:56 Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:58 nipra [n=nipra@117.195.101.60] has joined #lisp 12:59:15 fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:26 nieve [n=nieve@pool-173-52-141-141.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:23 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 13:04:26 attila_lendvai: I tried :initform, :initarg, defassociation*, renamed some classes to avoid name clashes with hu.dwim.meta-model:country etc. But the error persists. 13:05:37 jdz: awesome blog post. 13:06:01 Xach: ty. just wait till i pull out the common lisp one :) 13:06:44 -!- fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:06:44 *Xach* will earnestly try to do so 13:07:30 fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:37 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has joined #lisp 13:07:52 kami-`: what if you turn the make-province into a normal make-instance? 13:08:08 hello 13:08:32 kami-`: also check with C-c C-d d if province is the right symbol 13:09:34 didi [n=user@189-68-56-226.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:10:06 kami-`: you can also try (def association ...). if that helps then report back, because it's a bug then... 13:10:38 -!- nieve_ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-153-34.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:11:31 -!- notsonerdysunny [n=chatzill@121.243.167.99] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:12:06 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:14:27 ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.4] has joined #lisp 13:14:33 -!- demmel [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:14:57 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 13:15:21 -!- fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:15:41 fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:48 demmel [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:16:15 -!- demmel [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:16:33 attila_lendvai, hi! I made a few enhancements and cleanups to XCVB 13:16:45 Still no standalone backend, but getting there slowly. 13:17:02 Fare: hi! i'm planning to play with it once i fixed a few things somewhere else 13:17:16 i mean later today 13:17:20 ziga` [n=user@89.142.53.32] has joined #lisp 13:17:35 ok, once again, I'm at your service for any trouble with it. 13:19:15 i'll try to bootstrap my changes first, last time it resulted in an xcvb that went full cpu seemingly endless loop 13:20:13 Fare: btw, your comment about the possibility of using xcvb for building sbcl is really interesting... looking forward to see the follow up on it... :) 13:20:26 Guthur pasted "Loop collection" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89290 13:20:54 attila_lendvai, let's first get a standalone backend and some of the other goodies. 13:20:58 this is my accumulation loop from yesterday, minor issue with it, its hard to explain though 13:21:09 maybe some robust dependency detection 13:21:19 <_3b> Guthur: did you want APPEND instead of COLLECT in one of the inner LOOPS? 13:21:47 _3b tried that still seems to produce individual lists 13:23:10 programming by coincidence strikes again 13:23:44 <_3b> actually, i guess you probably want collect on the outer loop, and append on middle loop? 13:23:53 lol i think i got it 13:24:03 _3b ya that was it 13:24:12 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:24:21 sorry i don't know how i missed that, cheers for the insight 13:24:27 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:24:36 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:25:06 _3b great, well spotted 13:26:25 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:26:39 scottmaccal [n=scott@169.244.94.54] has joined #lisp 13:28:20 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 13:31:31 ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-183-99.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:34:57 has any of you used paren-psos? 13:36:08 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:36:37 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:41:11 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:41:23 nieve_ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-148-118.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:34 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 13:42:36 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:43:04 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:44:45 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.150.237] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:09 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:11 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 13:48:22 Heh, cvs recipes for listing modules tend to not work. 13:48:30 nieve__ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-148-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:16 attila_lendvai: as the slot whose initarg is not recognized is a super class, do you think it would help to experiment with :push-down or something? 13:49:38 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633767.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:50:07 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:50:12 greetings 13:50:22 Adlai: herep 13:51:55 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:39 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:52:53 attila_lendvai: s/is a super class/is a slot of a superclass 13:53:26 McCLIM is much better than I thought, so thanks to all McCLIM developers for such a nice lispy GUI toolkit 13:53:31 -!- nieve [n=nieve@pool-173-52-141-141.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:54:03 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:54:31 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:54:45 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:49 Harag annotated #89276 "Continued.." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89276#3 13:54:49 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:54:51 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 13:54:52 cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has joined #lisp 13:55:25 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@193.109.18.92] has quit ["Am I missing an eyebrow?"] 13:55:49 -!- Jafet1 is now known as jafet 13:55:55 <_3b> Harag: i think you didn't understand what we were telling you earlier :) 13:56:01 _3b: Does that give you a better idea about how I was interpreting your "passing the variables" note...? 13:56:14 that is very possible 13:56:15 <_3b> there is no reason for a lambda in that macro... 13:56:29 <_3b> the lambda would be in order to let you do the same thing without a macro 13:56:38 was suspecting it because the body eveluates o nits own 13:57:21 kami-`: yes, that's how i've read it. don't know, try to extract a small testcase, or stare at the code around the debugger when it hangs, or alternatively start me a vnc server... :) 13:57:30 <_3b> what i was trying to get across, is that the way you define the macro, with the body code using the FIELDS var from the macro can cause problems 13:58:57 <_3b> so you should understand why it is a bad idea in general to write macros like that, before you write them that way 14:00:14 _3b: ok I understand that it is a bad idea the person that passes the body does not know about them unless they have access to the code... 14:00:14 _3b are you _3b_ on the lispgames or is that someone else? 14:00:45 <_3b> for example if you have (parse-csv-file (...) () (parse-csv-file (...) () (code here can't see vars from outer parse-csv-file))) 14:01:04 <_3b> Guthur: yeah, that is me, also the other variant on the same name there 14:01:21 *_3b* should figure out a better IRC setup at some point, but is too lazy 14:01:47 _3b: ok thats even worse 14:01:59 _3b bit of a irc multi personality disorder or something 14:02:37 <_3b> Harag: also, there is the risk of forgetting a package prefix, and getting the wrong var 14:03:37 -!- nieve_ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-148-118.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:03:37 Guthur: it looks more lake a branched personality ;) 14:04:08 _3b: ok thanx so it is a mes...*sigh* 14:04:13 <_3b> (let ((field 1)) (foo:parse-csv-file (...) () (what is field here? same as foo::field or not?)) 14:06:44 _3b: ok is there a better way to do it or is it just not do able in a clean manner... 14:06:48 <_3b> Guthur: i just can't find an irc client i like, so end up with the one i'm used to, which can't do multiple windows without multiple connections :p 14:07:40 <_3b> Harag: well, like i said before, most of the macro is just setting up the log file, so i'd write a shortcut for that and just write the rest out 14:08:40 _3b xchat does multiple windows, but i'm sure you have some reason not to use it as its not exactly niche or anything 14:08:54 I'm trying to call defun without macro expansion: (apply (macro-function 'defun) '(f () 1)) but it doesn't work, and I don't understand why (too many arguments to defun). Any idea ? 14:09:16 <_3b> Harag: my version of the paste would fix the problems i've been talking about, but instead it has an unreadable and error prone arglist, so would probably be worse overall 14:10:14 <_3b> Guthur: dunno, haven't tried it, i'd prefer to stay with a console client if possible 14:11:44 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:11:50 <_3b> if i switched to a graphical client, i'd probably just go with beirc, and hack it to work how i want :) 14:12:02 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:12:06 _3b: thanx I think I understand the point (eventually) ... also gives me a a good excuse to write a yasnippet for the scenario...and give gorsal and example of when a snippet is better than a macro...lol 14:12:36 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:14:06 <_3b> Harag: yeah, i think a lot of macro stuff would be better off done at the editor level :) 14:14:27 Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:28 *_3b* has some odd ideas about that stuff though 14:14:39 -!- ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.4] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:16:09 attila_lendvai: the problem is solved, but I don't like to write the reason. 14:16:32 _3b: editor support for weird code folding? 14:16:48 <_3b> pkhuong: yeah, among other things 14:17:11 kami-`: package problem? :) 14:17:18 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06ddab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["switch"] 14:17:34 attila_lendvai: I had two defassociation forms in one file (copy/paste mistake). Removing one, solved the problem. But, please don't tell anybody! 14:17:43 serichsen [n=svante@hmbg-4d06ddab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:18 kami-`: everyone makes mistakes... were they identical? simply copy-pasting them causes the error? was any warning signaled? ... these issues should be caught by perec... 14:20:20 -!- h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:20:27 attila_lendvai: currently my data import is running with debug level output which writes out all SQL. It might take some time until I can try again. 14:20:43 attila_lendvai: I'll try to create a test case for it 14:20:48 h3 [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 14:21:03 -!- didi [n=user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:21:06 attila_lendvai: can I muffle the sql output of the perec log on the fly? 14:21:13 ok, not that important, but may spare some time for the upcoming poor souls who make the same mistake 14:21:45 kami-`: yes, if you can input the required form. maybe: C-c and in hte debugger press 'e' on a frame... 14:22:13 (in my experience slime repl is too broken for this) 14:22:15 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:22:35 s0ber [n=s0ber@114-45-228-14.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:52 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit ["I plead the fifth"] 14:26:04 KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:36 -!- rares [n=rares@130.13.176.255] has left #lisp 14:26:40 milanj [n=milan@93.87.152.33] has joined #lisp 14:28:25 benny` [n=benny@i577A130C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:29:06 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=rot13@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:30:00 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1BE0.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:30:02 -!- gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:30:13 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:30:36 -!- s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-168-238-211.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:31:20 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:47 nieve [n=nieve@pool-96-246-58-136.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:48 -!- jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:31:57 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 14:32:05 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 14:32:13 _3b: I suppose a create macro from "code region" button would be out of the question!? 14:32:36 knobo` [n=user@ti0073a340-0385.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:33:22 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 14:33:37 <_3b> Harag: sounds like a reasonable thing to have 14:34:29 _3b: if nothing else it would be a great teaching tool 14:34:29 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:34:38 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 14:35:18 *Harag* dreams on... 14:35:24 robsynnott [n=robertsy@89.100.143.184] has joined #lisp 14:36:38 it sounds like it might make very leaking macros though, you would still need to be probably just as careful 14:36:56 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:59 p0a [n=user@athedsl-381599.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:37:06 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 14:37:08 Hello I've been reading on lex/yacc and cl-yacc 14:37:20 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84.51.132.95] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 14:37:44 I understand the example given here http://dinosaur.compilertools.net/ 14:37:59 also the cl-yacc example given for cl-yacc. But I don't see how I could implement a language similar to the first link (say, with conditionals) 14:38:41 any resources to learn about these things and how to do them the lisp way? 14:39:00 LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:39:09 p0a: jwacs has a cl-yacc file for javascript. maybe it would be an informative example. 14:39:30 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:57 Guther: well it its smart enough to build the macro its mart enough to say to you BAD IDEA do something else...hehe 14:40:09 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:40:42 Xach: thanks. It's going to be a little complicated for me, but I'll give it a try 14:41:06 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:41:40 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:43:44 drgnvale [n=acristin@209.16.73.144] has joined #lisp 14:43:44 Harag its sometimes not so easy, its fine automating something but computers tend to do what there are asked with out really considering the consequences, thats real intelligence which isn't so easily manifested 14:44:13 -!- nieve__ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-148-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:44:27 Xach: do you have a simpler example? 14:44:29 maybe be possible though, i can even write a macro by hand so i have very little insight in to automating such a process 14:44:46 s/i can/i can't 14:45:33 Guthur: Deterministic behavior is real intelligence? :-P 14:47:07 p0a touche, but it still would be hard, the problem domain is still quite large, took a supercomputer to beat a human at chess 14:47:25 it's not so super anymore 14:47:39 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:47:50 Guther: I would settle for split this code region out to a seperate function...that would safe me effort already... 14:48:26 p0a: no. 14:48:58 cid [n=cid@91-66-217-206-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:11 I noticed there's a cl-yacc but not cl-lex. Is it because you can just use sexps? 14:49:30 quidnunc [n=user@70.50.9.51] has joined #lisp 14:50:14 metasyntax [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:38 p0a: you can use any lexer you want, as long as it's compatible with cl-yacc 14:52:01 <_3b> Harag: might try redshank if you use emacs, i think it might do that 14:53:04 _3b: will have a look at it thanx...I use emacs and ecusp depending on what I am up to 14:53:53 fe[nl]ix: makes sense 14:53:56 p0a: I've used clex.lisp by Gilbert with good results (my version lives in cxml-rng). 14:54:00 Another time I've used cl-ppcre as a basis for a lexer, as suggested by ivan4th (this one is in plexippus). 14:55:07 _3b: Extracting marked regions to DEFUNs, with free variables becoming arguments of the extracted function 14:55:17 it does exactly that 14:58:20 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 14:58:26 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:58:27 -!- Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has quit ["new screen setup"] 14:59:53 -!- Jafet1 is now known as Jafet 15:00:01 Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:34 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:01:37 i have an unpublished blog entry here: http://www.ltn.lv/~jonis/blog/2-bb-cl/2-brians-brain-on-cl.html 15:01:42 comments welcome 15:02:42 *jdz* going to eat something meanwhile 15:04:37 jdz: I did something similar here: http://ryepup.unwashedmeme.com/blog/2009/10/04/brians-functional-brain-in-lisp/ 15:04:43 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 15:04:47 jdz: i find (list w h) better than `(,h ,w) 15:04:58 you can probably cut down on the GC by having make-brain reuse a couple of arrays instead of creating new ones each iteration 15:05:32 oh, you say it later, but `(,l ,x ,r ,l ,r ,l ,x ,r) is really awful 15:07:54 jdz: typo- Missig things != Missing things 15:08:07 I am unclear as to how "Brian's Brain" is different from Conway's Game of Life 15:08:23 dlowe: fewer articles have been written about it 15:08:28 but that is rapidly changing 15:08:52 oh, I see. It's a three-state CA 15:08:59 demmel [n=Adium@138.246.18.245] has joined #lisp 15:11:28 -!- demmel [n=Adium@138.246.18.245] has quit [Client Quit] 15:11:33 nieve_ [n=nieve@pool-96-246-63-4.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:36 jdz: you are my blog hero of the week, and it's only monday. 15:13:06 <_3b> jdz: does (gc :full t) between tests affect benchmark results? 15:13:10 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-253-198.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 15:13:45 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:14:19 who's to write an embedding of Brian's Brain in Conway's Game of Life, and vice versa? 15:14:31 and what about using bit-arrays instead? 15:14:41 Conway's Game of Brian's Brain? 15:14:57 oh, it has :dying 15:15:31 anyway, using (integer 0 2) array could be better 15:16:21 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:16:33 do you end up using content-based addressing of trees of cells to achieve implicit constant folding / caching / etc. ? 15:16:39 and time warp 15:16:57 lichtblau: thanks, I'm looking into that 15:17:07 |coyoes| [n=alex@144.162.132.101] has joined #lisp 15:17:14 nieve__ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-150-99.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:14 (where is this article describing the timewarp algorithm for Conway's Game of Life?) 15:17:43 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-381599.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 15:18:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashlife 15:20:03 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.58.146] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:20:44 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.152.33] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:21:30 where are the updated sources for hunchentoot? 15:21:46 on weitz.de ? 15:21:49 -!- nieve [n=nieve@pool-96-246-58-136.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:22:02 clbuild might have a darcs mirror. 15:22:33 in Edi's public source control. where is that? err, not available... :) except the ediware mirror luis keeps uptodate 15:22:33 It doesn't 15:22:55 http://common-lisp.net/~loliveira/ediware/ 15:23:08 minion: ediware for Younder 15:23:10 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``ediware''. 15:24:18 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:24:44 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:26:04 morphling [n=stefan@89.15.139.236] has joined #lisp 15:26:39 Demosthenex [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 15:26:39 isn't it in hans svn repo 15:26:44 @ bknr.net 15:27:32 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:27:34 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:27:36 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 15:28:06 -!- h3 [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:28:17 h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:47 -!- h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:29:25 jdz: posibility to use :1..:n instead of 1:..n: (for pastability :) ? 15:29:47 -!- nieve_ [n=nieve@pool-96-246-63-4.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:31:53 so, how long is minion caching a lookup entry? 15:31:54 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:31:55 stassats: 0 for dead, 1 for dying, 2 for on would lead to a simple implementation for rules and neighbours. 15:32:54 is this bad? 15:33:05 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:11 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:33:23 stassats: no, simple is good. 15:33:52 right, but maybe it doesn't meet objective of the post 15:34:14 an interesting problem would be to try and implement that in bit operations so you could compute 64 bits (32 cells) at once 15:34:28 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 15:34:29 h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:30 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 15:36:32 milanj [n=milan@93.87.116.131] has joined #lisp 15:37:11 dlowe: problem is, we need to count up to three. An simd-within-a-register implementation of saturating adds would likely want a guard bit for the carry, so you're maybe looking at 6 or 3 cells at once? 15:37:42 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 15:39:40 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:40:14 pkhuong: we don't actually have to count up to three, since a dying state doesn't contribute 15:40:44 pkhuong, no still 64 cells at once, using 2 words per cell that you combine with boolean operations. 15:40:48 dlowe: no, we have to count up to three to know how many neighbours are on. 15:40:51 -!- h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:41:22 in any case, go for the high-level optimization first (=hashlife) instead of the micro-optimization (=bitbanging) 15:41:38 Fare: bit banging makes for fun puzzles. 15:41:39 Well, I said it was an interesting problem, not a practical approach 15:41:46 jdz: is there some classes missing: brain-width-of, brain-height-of and setf cells-of? 15:43:28 jdz: also the toplevel cl-opengl at the end gave: "ERROR: Function called without first calling 'glutInit'." 15:43:57 -!- cid [n=cid@91-66-217-206-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 15:45:37 -!- asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:46:55 stassats: your points are valid, and are the topic of my next blog entry ;) 15:47:58 lharc: what do you mean "for pastability"? 15:49:08 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:49:22 lharc: oh, the brain-width-of are from the future sources :) 15:50:37 lharc: what "toplevel cl-opengl"? 15:51:05 I think I'll make a .asd in this entry, as well. 15:51:39 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:52:03 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:52:26 my plan is to experiment with different brain representations (1d and 2d, symbolic/numeric, destructive/consing evolution) next 15:52:40 and creating a fastest possible implementation i can come up with after that 15:54:19 jdz: what about hashlife? 15:54:25 jdz: pastability was a bad joke.. I had to copy line by line :) 15:54:27 rstandy [n=rastandy@pc212-189-140-32.unile.it] has joined #lisp 15:54:29 why don't you start with the high-level stuff? 15:54:47 if you're vying for bitbanging speed, I suggest you program in Assembly, not Lisp. 15:54:50 Fare: because i want to play around :) 15:55:02 or in FPGA 15:55:19 jdz: That error came from entering "(glut:display-window ..." at repl 15:55:21 Fare: it's not about bitbanging, or beating C/C++/Java/haskell implementations 15:55:27 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 15:55:30 what is it about? 15:55:44 Fare: Lisp is pretty good at bit banging, actually. 15:55:44 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:55:45 it's more about simplest brute-force implementation 15:56:00 -!- ASau [n=user@host168-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 15:56:01 pkhuong: not as good as Zimbu! 15:56:08 quadtrees do not qualify on that 15:56:31 I have a simpler version: get a kid off the street and beet the hell out of him until he computes the next generation. 15:56:36 It requires fewer lines of code. 15:56:49 it's more brute-force 15:57:14 Don't you outsource your hacking in a similar way? 15:57:21 if you beat him hard enough, you might give him lisp, too. 15:57:21 it works faster on toy benchmarks 15:57:45 lharc: update cl-opengl ? 15:57:51 what platform are you on 15:58:08 xristos: is cl-opengl HEAD supposed to work on 10.6? 15:58:44 pkhuong: it should 15:58:48 i don't have 10.6 yet 15:58:55 me neither 15:58:58 exu0 [n=u@188.105.54.194] has joined #lisp 15:59:05 -!- exu0 [n=u@188.105.54.194] has left #lisp 15:59:05 xristos: using cl-opengl from darcs, on x86-64 debian/stable 15:59:22 hang on 15:59:40 you need a patch 15:59:54 ah ok. It dies fairly hard right now (: 16:00:11 <_3b> might also try my version from git, it has some fixes darcs doesn't (in addition to whatever random stuff i added) 16:00:19 _3b: linky? 16:00:23 pkhuong: what's the problem 16:00:25 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [] 16:00:43 <_3b> http://github.com/3b/cl-opengl 16:01:15 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host86-140-191-199.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 16:01:31 -!- udzinari [n=user@195.212.29.179] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:01:39 lharc: try 3b's repo or http://common-lisp.net/~loliveira/patches/cl-glut-init-state.diff 16:01:44 xristos: dies in __CFInitialize 16:02:07 xristos: thanks! 16:02:45 pkhuong: that code is straight out of ccl, they must have changed something in 10.6 16:02:50 i'll install it this week 16:03:06 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:03:53 how are sbcl and ccl on 10.6 doing btw? 16:04:11 Some people report build failures for SBCL; I've not been able to reproduce them. 16:04:54 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:07:00 ah, seems to work without slime. Another library that wants to be loaded in thread 0? 16:07:05 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:07:13 that's osx specific 16:07:22 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-183-99.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:07:25 i think it works on different threads in linux 16:07:55 it should work for you though, as darcs has code to interrupt initial thread and do everything there 16:08:16 -!- benny` is now known as benny 16:08:18 doesn't seem to work here. I load from *inferior-lisp* instead. 16:09:35 asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:50 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 16:11:15 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:11:27 that explains the loading failures, but gears dies almost immediately for example, with "GLUT Fatal Error: internal error: NSInternalInconsistencyException, reason: +[NSUndoManager(NSInternal) _endTopLevelGroupings] is only safe to invoke on the main thread." 16:11:56 you are using luis repo ? 16:12:31 check if there is cl-glut thread 16:12:41 _3b's. 16:13:03 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 16:16:04 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:16:04 If you're willing to look into cl-glfw and GLFW library instead of GLUT, you won't have any of these problems.. depends on what you're working on, ofcourse. 16:16:19 cl-glfw works great for me 16:16:43 <_3b> ziga`: on the same os version? 16:16:50 on Mac OS X 10.4.11 16:17:02 ziga`: I'm fairly certain I'm looking at snow leopard-specific issues. 16:17:16 pkhuong: if you have cl-glut thread running then they changed something in the api in leopard 16:17:22 eh in 10.6 16:17:25 pkhuong: ok 16:17:35 so i'll have to take another look 16:17:35 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.199.192] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 16:17:45 I also know that I'm never in the mood for debugging toolchain issues. 16:18:48 can you load cl-glut and check current threads 16:19:00 demmel [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 16:19:17 -!- demmel [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:19:22 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:20:33 *GLUT-THREAD* is running. 16:20:59 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:22:36 ok so it seems that all glut calls need initial thread 16:23:04 so i assume it's barfing at display-window 16:23:11 gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:22 this worked in leopard sigh 16:26:42 does this work from slime after you load cl-glut ? 16:26:59 (sb-thread:interrupt-thread cl-glut::*glut-thread* #'cl-glut-examples:gears) 16:28:15 nope. 16:28:24 do you want me to try the *initial-thread*? 16:28:31 sure 16:29:21 neither. 16:29:36 what does it say 16:29:49 same error, "2009-10-26 12:29:07.571 sbcl[49347:4763] GLUT Fatal Error: internal error: NSInternalInconsistencyException, reason: +[NSUndoManager(NSInternal) _endTopLevelGroupings] is only safe to invoke on the main thread.". 16:29:51 91. A TV can insult your intelligence, but nothing rubs it in like a computer. 16:30:14 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 16:30:21 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:31:15 pkhuong: it seems that _CFRunLoopSetCurrent does not work on 10.6 16:31:34 anyway i can't do anything about that until i get 10.6 16:31:45 demmel [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 16:33:02 the code is in glut/init.lisp 16:33:16 Jabberwockey [n=jens@84.46.77.30] has joined #lisp 16:33:26 it creates glut-thread and tries to set it as the main thread using osx internal api 16:34:07 Axius [n=ojof@92.84.21.140] has joined #lisp 16:34:23 on sbcl we could just use initial-thread, but ccl uses the initial thread for housekeeping so we spawn our own 16:35:14 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has left #lisp 16:36:07 -!- Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:37:19 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 16:38:34 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:39:56 what does it mean to be an initial thread on OS X (aside from being able to run OpenGL...)? Is it an event handling thing? 16:40:15 each thread is associated with an event loop 16:40:32 and the initial thread is associated with the main event loop 16:41:20 and only the thread associated with the main event loop can interact with window server 16:42:01 sctb [n=sctb@74.198.148.18] has joined #lisp 16:43:14 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:44:41 jdz [n=jdz@84.237.142.223] has joined #lisp 16:44:58 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 16:46:17 i have a massive hash-table of word frequencies, how can i sort it by value? 16:46:33 i only know maphash, and sort is for sequences 16:46:55 should i convert it to an assoc list first? 16:47:22 fusss: when you sort a hash table, what do you get as the result? 16:47:35 i understand it doesn't make sense 16:47:42 i mean, what do you want? 16:47:55 <_3b> yeah, either convert to something SORTable or map it into buckets or something 16:47:55 do you actually want to map over the pairs in that order? 16:48:02 key is a word, value is a number; print the hash table by descdending value 16:48:35 fusss: maybe what you want is a tree datastructure. 16:48:53 with a tree merge procedure that you can parallelize. 16:49:06 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 16:49:24 something other than (let (list) (maphash (lambda (k v) (push (cons v k) list)) *hash*) (sort list :test (lambda (x y) (> (car x) (car y)))) 16:49:39 fusss: how big is big? 16:49:59 5k entries 16:50:13 not that big 16:50:22 what's the distribution of frequencies like? 16:51:08 -!- ziga` [n=user@89.142.53.32] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:51:20 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:28 peddie [n=peddie@c-98-210-236-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:06 not that big -- just transform to alist and sort 16:53:34 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 16:54:06 pkhuong: some entries have values of ~100, others 1 16:54:15 tf-idf is a fun little algorithm/process :-) 16:55:47 seangrove [n=user@173-11-104-25-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:55 -!- paddymullen [n=patrickm@cpe-72-229-243-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:58:39 -!- ans [n=ans@84.41.90.82] has quit ["leaving"] 16:59:34 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@pc212-189-140-32.unile.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:59:35 (- (tf-idf *specialized-domanin-specific-corpus*) *common-english-words*) is a good way to sift through crap 16:59:42 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:51 where #'- is overloaded for sets ;-) 17:00:36 ejs [n=eugen@95.135.30.161] has joined #lisp 17:00:48 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:02:00 too bad if the name of your thing is a ocmmon english word 17:02:03 -!- robsynnott [n=robertsy@89.100.143.184] has quit [] 17:04:37 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:04:38 pretty much all the software i am writing will be used just to generate enough data for GNUplot and produce pngs for Excel :-( 17:04:47 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:05:06 NLP and machine learning are super fun, can't believe i didn't get into is sooner 17:06:11 -!- sctb [n=sctb@74.198.148.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:09:28 gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 17:09:31 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-250-202.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:09:51 ans [n=ans@84.41.90.82] has joined #lisp 17:11:55 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 17:12:12 quodlibetor [n=user@ool-4570c6ff.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:46 what is the correct way to defclass with a slot being initially set to a hash table? 17:16:59 quodlibetor: one way is with :initform (make-hash-table) 17:17:05 quodlibetor: you can also use :default-initargs 17:17:16 quodlibetor: http://l1sp.org/pcl/defclass/ 17:17:25 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:54 hmm, "dead" link 17:18:01 Xach: that's what I am doing 17:18:11 well, i haven't tested it, though 17:18:33 Adlai: I have it downloaded, though :-) 17:18:45 Adlai: the trailing slash confounds the redirection 17:18:49 but then I should just set everything when I make instances? 17:18:54 Xach: ahh, that would explain things. 17:19:17 quodlibetor: what do you want to set? 17:19:51 Xach: there should be a couple of fields pre-filled 17:19:54 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:20:00 Fufie [n=innocent@80.203.225.86] has joined #lisp 17:20:09 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.84.21.140] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:20:20 I think the right thing to do would be the equivalent of elisps (defadvice :after) on the initializer? 17:20:29 quodlibetor: Fields of what? 17:20:33 the hast table 17:20:37 sorry 17:21:10 quodlibetor: Oh. In that case, you could write a new function if you felt like it, like (make-initialized-hash &rest keys-and-values), and use that as the slot initform 17:21:20 Or you could do it in an initialize-instance method or similar 17:21:22 -!- fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:21:35 quodlibetor: (defmethod initialize-instance :after ((object my-class) &rest initforms) ) 17:21:49 exactly, ok, awesome, thank you 17:22:08 I couldn't plan it out, I'm new to clos 17:22:35 read the two PCL chapters, I found them a pretty good intro to CLOS. There are also a few books entirely dedicated to introducing CLOS. 17:22:55 Fare [n=Fare@63.107.91.99] has joined #lisp 17:22:55 Adlai: really? i can only think of wone, Keene... 17:23:09 -!- Younder [n=jthing@22.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:23:17 ok. I read them about a month ago and my mind obviously forgot 17:23:24 or, just never absorbed it 17:23:24 Xach: maybe only one, then, but I seem to remember a few other less popular titles. 17:23:47 there are various guides mentioned here and there. Maybe on cliki? 17:23:48 minion: clos 17:23:49 clos: The Common Lisp Object System is based on generic functions, multiple inheritance, and declarative method combination. http://www.cliki.net/clos 17:24:24 arguably, AMOP is a book "entirely dedicated to introducing CLOS" :-) 17:24:37 oh, true. works for me. 17:25:28 h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:37 lichtblau: yes, that too, but it's a denser read. 17:25:51 AMOP has the best cover for a tech book I've seen today 17:26:01 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:25 does anyone know how the Paepcke book compares to the competition? 17:30:05 -!- knobo` [n=user@ti0073a340-0385.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:31:03 lichtblau, I liked his introductory mop paper very much at least 17:31:05 In term of? 17:31:12 lichtblau: I'll tell you in a week or so 17:31:24 jdz: defun evolve: (make-brain (w h)) 17:31:47 -!- jdz [n=jdz@84.237.142.223] has quit [] 17:32:43 lichtblau: If you're interested in how CLOS compared to the competition (C++, Smalltalk) back in the day, it's pretty interesting 17:35:49 jdz [n=jdz@84.237.142.223] has joined #lisp 17:38:49 -!- gaze [n=gaze@ResNet-36-86.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [] 17:41:13 lhz: dunno how that one got there... thanks! 17:42:00 jdz: "If you are rading this..." typo 17:43:41 nieve [n=nieve@pool-96-246-66-167.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:43 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:48:17 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 17:50:57 Xach: thanks, fixed some other misspellings too. 17:52:18 jdz: also the "Note, that ..."? 17:52:44 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:27 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:53:36 serichsen: you mean the comma is not needed? 17:54:52 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:55:00 jdz: as far as I know, it is wrong 17:55:23 yes, i agree. i might have paraphrased that sentence and left the comma... 17:56:04 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 17:56:10 i think i'll make the whole thing asdf-loadable and push to the blog 17:56:14 jdz: i think i'd be tempted to throw in (brain-width ...) and (brain-height ...) to avoid those magic array-dimension bits. and maybe even brain-ref... 17:56:25 (sorry for the late comment) 17:56:34 no problem 17:56:48 i have those in a future implementation of this thing :) 17:57:04 ok 17:57:26 at this point i have gone for straight forward first go at the problem 17:57:38 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-183.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 17:57:39 maybe i should say that somewhere explicitly 17:57:53 "...except that GC times don't grow as fastd." typo 17:57:53 like, in the very beginning 17:58:03 Xach: your version is out of date :) 17:58:07 sorry 17:58:17 *Xach* pulls in updates 17:58:19 no, thanks for your help. 17:58:46 i'm quite new to this blogging (and writing) thing in general 17:59:05 jdz: many people seem to write blog posts in an editor and then never read or review them after that... 18:00:36 are there any parenscript veterans that used PSOS? 18:00:58 p_l: i don't, but thanks for mentioning it...the author has some other interesting code i'm reviewing. 18:01:07 (to be exact, PSOS & paren-files) 18:01:09 -!- nieve__ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-150-99.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:01:15 *Xach* has an interest in Lisp/Amazon interfaces 18:01:40 Xach: I was thinking of using parenscript and said extensions to work with JQuery code for my job 18:01:58 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:02:35 p_l: I've had mixed luck with parenscript. In the end I write pure javascript and build small strings in lisp to call it 18:03:00 p_l: haven't messed with PSOS 18:03:45 jdz: hey, you could also use skippy to make an animated GIF of a few iterations! 18:03:47 prip [n=_prip@host61-121-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:04:19 *Xach* might give that a whirl when the code is easily loadable 18:04:29 Xach: ye, there are some "gliders" i noticed while watching the thing that are very cool 18:04:54 like, they move with an animated afterburner :) 18:06:40 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:44 Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 18:09:47 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.58.146] has joined #lisp 18:15:19 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.254.207] has joined #lisp 18:20:51 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-60-44.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:21:08 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:23:18 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 18:24:24 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 18:24:40 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 18:25:38 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 18:25:47 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:25:49 does lisp have an equivalent to a copy-constructor from C++, or do people normally just (defmethod copy ...) the classes that they want to have special copy semantics for? 18:26:17 minion: copying 18:26:19 copying: equal: eq, eql, equal, equalp and copying is explained at http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/EQUAL.html 18:26:24 quodlibetor: you have to write your own way to copy it. 18:26:27 quidnunc: see the link above 18:26:42 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 18:26:58 jdz: quidnunc is sleeping 18:27:32 oh, i'm trying to do too many things at once and too fast 18:27:40 -!- |coyoes| [n=alex@144.162.132.101] has quit ["May the Coyoes cook you some hot chili some day!"] 18:27:41 quodlibetor: see the link above :) 18:27:51 oh, i'm glad someone else on here has as irritating a nick as me 18:28:17 thanks, you folk are awesome 18:28:52 I personally prefer Henry Baker's article on equality 18:28:57 it's much more insightful 18:29:05 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:07 ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-183-99.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:29:19 Fare: add it to minions entry on copying :) 18:29:32 how do I add to an existing entry? 18:29:42 /msg minion help 18:30:37 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@122-57-10-130.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:31:52 -!- LiamH [n=none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:32:50 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 18:33:01 quodlibetor: there's a library called metacopy which provides the framework for copying. It's not very common though. 18:34:08 rread_ [n=rread@98.234.219.222] has joined #lisp 18:34:09 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:34:11 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 18:34:21 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-60-44.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:34:24 -!- h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Segmentation Fault"] 18:34:33 minion: equal? 18:34:33 equal: identity, equality (eq, eql, equal, equalp) and copying are explained at http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/EQUAL.html and in http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/ObjectIdentity.html 18:34:34 -!- OmniMancer1 is now known as OmniMancer 18:34:34 I'm just trying to do simple copying, but I've got an initializer which writes some default values, and I need to override that when I copy an instance, I think 18:34:50 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 18:34:56 lichtblau: that stuff I just said 18:35:40 quodlibetor: :initform things are only processed if you don't supply an initarg. 18:36:00 oh, right 18:36:07 Axius [n=ojof@92.85.208.59] has joined #lisp 18:36:08 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:36:13 Xach: but I've got an initialize-instance? 18:36:14 *Xach* was thinking along the wrong direction 18:36:18 oh, ok 18:36:54 quodlibetor: there are quite a lot of options; you could change initialize-instance to only initialize things if the slot is not bound or if the initarg was not passed, for example. 18:36:56 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has joined #lisp 18:37:12 Xach: oh, how do I check if a slot is bound? 18:37:22 Xach: or either of those 18:37:36 *lichtblau* doesn't actually have experience with metacopy, except that cl-perec pulled it in as a dependency, so it must carry the attila (or levy?) sign of approval. 18:37:56 |coyoes| [n=alex@144.162.132.101] has joined #lisp 18:38:41 Xach: I can't find anything, and that's what I was originally looking for 18:38:59 quodlibetor: slot-boundp 18:39:16 Xach: oh, that makes sense 18:39:46 If you have many years of Lisp experience, you can also decide to just use DEFSTRUCT without being laughed at. 18:40:01 Younder [n=jthing@22.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:40:14 lichtblau: what if I have many hours of lisp experience? 18:41:10 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-250-202.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:41:20 <``Erik> then you can decide to use defstruct and get laughed at? :D *duck* 18:41:38 ziga` [n=user@89.142.53.32] has joined #lisp 18:43:41 then you probably don't want to stand in the corner with the weird old guys who nobody wants to talk to because they still prefer CAR over FIRST, DEFSTRUCT over CLOS, ELI over SLIME, CVS over git, or post to cll from a Lispm. 18:43:46 gdoteof [n=gdot@sbhsa32.ma.burl.vt.sover.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:59 -!- gdoteof [n=gdot@sbhsa32.ma.burl.vt.sover.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:44:59 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has joined #lisp 18:47:28 I kind of prefer the way that car is the same length as cdr, though 18:47:51 but, then again, sometimes i spell "right" "riht" when I'm defining variables 18:47:59 *lichtblau* wasn't serious 18:48:03 what's ELI 18:48:15 thanks for your input guys, http://t-b-o-g.blogspot.com/2009/10/brians-brain-on-common-lisp.html 18:48:18 ziga`: franz's Emacs<->Lisp Interface 18:48:23 CAR and CDR are good functions to use. 18:48:31 aha 18:48:49 aren't they synonyms for FIRST and REST? 18:49:12 another one is setq vs setf everywhere :) 18:49:22 I use setf since I'm new to Lisp 18:49:42 i'm new to common lisp, but used to elisp, so i'm just confused 18:50:00 Elisp is old-school 18:50:26 i've heard :-) 18:50:47 Emacs is a poor man's lisp machine :) 18:50:56 no one in particular: if you wanted to be extremely perverse, you could implement a FIRST/REST equivalent of CADDR, et. al. 18:51:20 but at least it lets me type 18:51:32 brucio defined them up to 99th, iirc. 18:52:28 is CADDR (car (cdr (cdr l)))? 18:52:29 Common Lisp is scary in this aspect - it allows you to define a hundred function with a few lines of code 18:52:35 now it's beer time 18:52:58 quodlibetor: yep 18:53:01 jdz: what's the time? 18:53:12 it's beer time! 18:53:12 beer time? 18:53:21 beer o'clock 18:53:32 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.254.207] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:54:40 xach: I was looking for his blog the other day. 18:56:27 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@32.156.125.182] has joined #lisp 18:56:28 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-zimoqpbwvahughdh] has joined #lisp 18:56:54 FIREIRIREST ? 18:57:06 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:57:13 nvoorhies__ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:40 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:57:40 -!- nvoorhies__ is now known as nvoorhies 18:57:47 lhz: looks like he went offline or something 18:57:50 <``Erik> #'frrest ? O.o 18:58:25 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:58:38 <``Erik> quodlibetor: yes 18:59:49 lispm [n=joswig@e177125031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:59:55 ``Erik: it's beer time? 19:00:34 *lispm* does not use ELI 19:00:41 also, how would I check if an initarg is present, since :initform will bind a slot, I just think I realized? 19:02:48 Xach: I guess that was probably at you 19:02:59 the_unmaker [n=g@w005.z209031033.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:23 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 19:05:40 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@32.156.125.182] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:05:41 Xach: (and everyone) nevermind 19:07:29 <_3b> hmm, wonder how much i could speed up this shader... only getting 95 fps on 6000x6000 brains :( 19:07:43 <_3b> (assuming it is actually doing what it is supposed to in the first place) 19:08:16 _3b: ye, i thought i should try doing the shader version sometime in the future 19:08:21 masm [n=masm@bl9-115-197.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:08:26 well, there're a few lispy jokes in the code of today's xkcd redesign. 19:09:29 saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:31 h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:53 -!- nyquist [n=quassel@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:11:03 <_3b> heh, hadn't thought to check the source 19:11:35 <_3b> does that scheme code make any sense? 19:11:56 I haven't tried to evaluate it. 19:11:57 howdy 19:12:08 the parens are balanced. :) 19:12:39 am i missing it or there is no visitor counter in it? 19:12:47 hey tcr 19:13:01 <_3b> 0000000036 pageviews 19:13:01 must be one of the broken images 19:13:16 oh, right, missed it :/ 19:16:11 -!- scottmaccal [n=scott@169.244.94.54] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:17:52 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:18:14 Summermute [n=scott@c-76-114-212-247.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:22 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has left #lisp 19:20:02 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-76-114-212-247.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:20:52 francogrex [n=user@91.181.244.33] has joined #lisp 19:21:23 Hi I expected the 2nd test to skip the Bottom tag in http://paste.lisp.org/display/89314 19:21:46 how can it do that? 19:22:43 -!- jdz [n=jdz@84.237.142.223] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 19:23:11 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-183-99.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:24:02 <_3b> put another tag at the end and GO to that, or return-from something 19:24:29 rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:30 -!- rread [n=rread@98.234.219.222] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:24:32 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 19:25:24 -!- demmel [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:25:34 grouzen_ [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:25:44 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:25:58 demmel [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:27:42 Any McCLIM wizards present? 19:27:50 _3b: yes another tag at the end works ok. Thanks 19:28:30 drewc: your domain expired! 19:29:09 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:36 doladowanie [n=s_e-b-e_@87.205.42.80] has joined #lisp 19:29:55 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32C0A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:37 -!- doladowanie [n=s_e-b-e_@87.205.42.80] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:30:39 anyways, my McCLIM question: the only way to make a new frame - even if it is an about box or a file selector dialog is to define it via define-application-frame and then run it's loop? 19:31:42 Summermute66 [n=scott@c-76-114-212-247.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:23 a frame is a special window 19:32:34 you can open other windows, if wanted 19:32:37 a separate window 19:32:51 jsn [n=user@41.145.101.13] has joined #lisp 19:33:10 lispm: like a dialog box? How? 19:33:10 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 19:34:10 http://www.mikemac.com/mikemac/clim/dialogs.html 19:34:15 see accepting values 19:34:18 I know that McCLIM's style is to have only one window and interact through typing preferably 19:34:24 it has an option :own-window 19:34:40 Just a quick Q: What's the best shot at getting a x-platform (Mac,Linux,Windoze) GUI up and app running in Common Lisp using open source tools? Mucho thanks! 19:34:40 lispm: thanks 19:34:41 no, you can have all kinds of windows in CLIM 19:34:43 -!- jsn [n=user@41.145.101.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:36:05 Gilberth's version of the CLIM spec: http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/26.html#_1363 19:37:15 there are also facilities to display menus: 19:37:16 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/25.html#_1353 19:37:35 -!- ans [n=ans@84.41.90.82] has quit ["leaving"] 19:37:59 lispm: looks like I have to do some reading.. thanks 19:38:06 *Adlai* wonders whether McCLIM wizards use clim to cast SPELs 19:38:48 ziga`: open-window-stream 19:38:56 clim open-window-stream 19:38:57 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/29-4.html#_1698 19:39:44 ziga`: I routinely use open-window-stream to open a separate window for things like plotting. 19:40:15 ziga`: And often I do that directly from the CLIM listener so that I don't have to write an application at all. 19:40:48 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.181.244.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:41:02 display accepting-values dialogs in a listener is easy 19:41:10 beach: sounds exactly like what I was looking for.. 19:41:14 getting a window for the dialog is just an option away 19:41:30 ziga`: Oh, good! 19:41:55 can I ask a stupid question? 19:42:05 the_unmaker: yes 19:42:05 the_unmaker: You already did. 19:42:09 expect a stupid answer. 19:42:13 only one 19:42:18 LOL 19:42:30 I put a definition in a text file, and ran clisp -i file 19:42:39 uhoh 19:42:40 *** - READ from #: an object cannot start with #\) 19:42:55 you already did something stupid! No more stupid questions for you tonight. 19:43:01 minion: tell the_unmaker about SLIME 19:43:02 the_unmaker: direct your attention towards SLIME: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/SLIME 19:43:24 the_unmaker, looks like your file contains some non-Lisp content?! 19:44:20 http://pastebin.ca/1644159 19:45:15 minion: tell the_unmaker about lisppaste 19:45:16 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 19:45:17 Use a parenthesis-counting editor 19:45:53 It's unbelievable since how long you've checking Lisp out and how little you have learned since then 19:45:55 there one ) too much 19:46:00 the_unmaker pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89319 19:46:09 (This is gavino) 19:46:17 right 19:46:30 the_unmaker: Why did you like with your indentation? 19:46:42 *lie 19:46:47 lie? 19:46:51 feeling like a snitch: he has been trolling #squeak for months ;-) 19:47:02 benny: and #lisp for years, apparently. 19:47:16 the_unmaker: Honest question: Don't you consider it insulting to come here again and again and showing that you haven't learned a damn one thing? 19:47:20 gavino, you want (read), not read) 19:47:28 the_unmaker: go to the paste, on lisppaste, and move the mouse over your code. Lisppaste uses some paren-matching code that'll help you see one of your errors. 19:47:36 I used set; sm in vi and it shows the same thing lisppaste does, I have 1 too many parens at the end...yet i am typing ti in from the book.. 19:47:42 Douglish pasted "macro help" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89320 19:47:58 I have no idea how to do it :( 19:48:01 the_unmaker: no, go to the paste, and mouse over it. Please do that, it'll illustrate the paren errors. 19:48:05 -!- demmel [n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de] has left #lisp 19:48:07 ah there it is 19:48:09 I suck 19:48:59 cool mouseover feature 19:49:10 the_unmaker: An then, next time, use an editor that will indent according to the parentheses. 19:49:10 no, you don't suck, you're just stubborn. Get a real editor. If you still make these mistakes when you use a real IDE, then we'll agree that you truly do suck. 19:49:39 Douglish: Where do you want to apply such a macro? 19:49:46 Douglish, you would first think about how the expanded code should look like 19:50:07 tcr: homework? 19:50:49 exactly, homework 19:50:56 *lispm* ported FriCAS to LispWorks 19:50:59 lispm: Heh. :) 19:51:34 lispm: I was thinking about some loop in loop and comparing :) 19:52:16 But it's seems to be overkill. 19:52:25 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [] 19:52:28 Douglish: a compute the conditions and keep the result in a LET 19:52:32 Douglish: I suggest you start with a simple call to the macro, and actually write the expansion code for that. Do it with more and more complicated examples, until you get a good idea for the transformation you want to do. 19:52:50 Douglish: (let ((a (= 1 2)) (b (= 0 0)) (cond ((and a (not b)) (print "blah")) ...)) 19:52:52 Douglish: then use a COND for the comparisons 19:53:41 is there a library out there for making lisp packages feel hierarchical? it seems like you could fake a categorical lisp package system by using all parent packages and nicknaming packages based on the names of their parents 19:54:26 gonzojive: try lexicons 19:55:00 gonzojive: it's not that simple, because packages are distinguished by the string representation of their names 19:55:05 revalation: RENAME-FILE also functions as "COPY-FILE" 19:55:28 *fusss* ditches (and (copy-file f y) (delete-file f)) 19:55:47 Adlai: Which is unfortune. I think package should be named by symbols. 19:56:03 fusss: that's sounds kind of brain dead, or am I missing something? 19:56:09 tcr: yeah, I agree. That would make hierarchical packages pretty trivial... 19:56:27 ans [n=ans@user82.c3.sevnica.kabelnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:48 Summermute66: rename-file accepts a pathname *designator* 19:56:50 it'd also mean you could get a unique package by using a gensym 19:57:06 You'd want truly anonymous packages 19:58:30 Adlai: how does naming packages by string complicate making packages hierarchical? 19:59:08 fusss: Ah, "no problem that cannot be solved with another level of redirection" :-) 20:00:02 nieve_ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-11-10.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:28 (let ((country (parse-field :country buf))) 20:00:30 (if (not (string-equalp country "USA")) 20:00:32 (rename-file file-path (ensure-directories-exist (merge-pathnames (file-namestring pathname) "non-us/"))) 20:00:32 Fare: Is there some interest in using llvm for SBCL? 20:00:53 is llvm even suitable for CL? 20:01:00 gonzojive: Distinct symbols with string= symbol-names would name the same package 20:01:32 I was thinking if you define a package C with parent package PAR then you nickname C "PAR.C" and then import all the symbols from PAR into C. 20:01:40 ziga`: LLVM is a generic machine 20:02:00 -!- ziga` [n=user@89.142.53.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:02:13 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:37 wgl: there is interest, but no capital 20:03:05 Fare: what would the expectations be for its use in SBCL? 20:03:27 Joreji [n=thomas@43-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:03:46 get the high-level type analyzes from SBCL, plung the low-level code generator from LLVM. 20:03:46 I would make a new backend which emits LLVM instructions instead of machine asm. 20:03:58 it will be hard, thouhg 20:04:23 Adlai: why would you need to name packages by symbol? 20:04:43 Hard as in lots of detail, lots of interaction with existing framework, or hard as in calling convention mismatch? 20:04:56 you might want to start with a CFFI interface to LLVM 20:05:04 all of them 20:05:19 I'd actually start with using the textual form of LLVM 20:05:56 forget the CFFI interface. I've heard bad stories about people starting with that; it's apparently not very good at giving you error messages when you do bad things, instead preferring to crash. :) 20:05:59 ziga` [n=user@89.142.53.32] has joined #lisp 20:06:18 gonzojive: let's say you have two packages, A and B. They both have subpackages, and you want to name both subpackages C. If package identity was by symbol identity, you'd have package A::C and B::C, but instead, it's by symbol-name, so you'd end up with both packages "C", so your hierarchy would run into trouble. 20:06:23 drewc: just a joke, sorry...i was going through my old files and came across the common-lisp.biz announcement 20:07:01 yes, I found the llvm api pretty unpleasant to work with 20:07:20 Fare: In terms of expectation--better performance would be expected, execution-code wise? 20:07:33 wgl: nobody knows until you try it. :) 20:08:12 Having thought deeply about it for an hour or two, something like LLVM or C-- has to 1) perhaps natively support a jmp (family), but leave all other calling convention design up to the designed language; 2) support some kind of word/pointer descriptor; 3) and/or support some kind of (varargs flexible!) stack frame descriptor records; 4) support configurable thread-safe GC safe points; 5) and more stuff I couldn't think of in an hour 20:08:14 wgl: better portability? 20:08:29 LLVM allows custom calling conventions 20:08:36 wgl: better performance on some things, possibly worse on some others. 20:08:38 Xach: there is also Enterprise Lisp http://enterpriselisp.infogami.com/e8e_features 20:08:48 which I would love to see :-| 20:08:58 You'd most likely want to write a calling convention plugin, rather than emitting raw jumps and register moves and such. 20:09:29 fusss: "last updated: 3 years ago" :/ 20:09:41 it also has GC support, which is at least half-baked. :) http://llvm.org/docs/GarbageCollection.html 20:09:42 foom: There +1 for LLVM! 20:09:43 nieve__ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-4-12.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:05 http://www.enterpriselisp.com/software/system-check/ used to work even 20:10:15 jsnell: unpleasant in what ways? 20:11:00 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-31-242.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:11:11 -!- nieve [n=nieve@pool-96-246-66-167.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:11:25 or even Encline http://www.cliki.net/Encline which was released but now disappeared http://www.cliki.net/Encline 20:12:27 Fare: foom's point about it just crashing if you did something wrong still apply. and then you look at a stacktrace in gdb, and try to figure out from the internal llvm function names how the input you're forming might be malformed 20:12:53 Fare: So I infer from your portability note that there must be overhead in maintaining all the architecture-specific parts to SBCL? 20:13:11 (I'm working on LLVM code generation for Dylan, and I decided to implement my own bitcode outputter rather than trying to use the FFI interface to the LLVM API) 20:13:15 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-76-122-37-30.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:51 and it's got a gazillion overloaded constructors and factory methods for everything, making it pretty hard to figure out which one you should be using 20:14:24 I'd expect that once you've gotten the hang of emitting correct LLVM text-code, switching to using the API would be less painful than starting with it. 20:14:57 housel: in your design useful and stable enough that it would make sense to port it to CL? 20:15:22 nieve [n=nieve@pool-173-52-9-218.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:28 What about the good old days when programs were compiled to machine code and we used address lookup tables and stack frame descriptors to implement debuggers? Are our dance cards just too full these days compared to back then? 20:15:34 Fare: Not yet, it's still in the early stages 20:16:12 -!- |coyoes| [n=alex@144.162.132.101] has quit ["Changing server..."] 20:16:30 Summermute66: I forgot to add "interoperability" (hopefully) with existing development / debugging tools. 20:16:55 Fare: roger that 20:18:40 -!- quidnunc [n=user@70.50.9.51] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:18:44 fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:17 foom: that's a good point - i imagine that alot would be idiomatic and automatible by some level of macro facility 20:19:48 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 20:20:26 Fare: BTW, does LLVM support varargs style calling conventions? I think I was reading up on C-- and was duly disappointed. 20:20:50 LLVM supports C and C++ frontends, so it supports everything they do. 20:20:51 it supports varargs, but you really wouldn't want to use them for implementing CL 20:21:03 forget about C--, even Norman Ramsey has given up on it. 20:21:06 (and mostly just about /only/ everything they require) 20:21:12 yeah, C-- is 99% dead. 20:21:14 LLVM has had a better design from the start 20:21:24 more overhead than an integer count stuck in a register? ;-) 20:22:06 Fare: That's a shame. We need more serious LLVM, C-- style options 20:22:15 -!- nieve_ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-11-10.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:22:27 iirc the overhead on changing something like a fib from fixed arguments to varargs was around a 100% on x86-64 20:22:34 Summermute: if you want to start a better LLVM rival, go ahead -- but it's no small job. 20:22:45 A single awesome option is good enough for me. :) 20:23:02 100% !!!! to repeat 100% !!!! 20:23:08 foom: you think LLVM is awesome? 20:23:17 No, I think it's getting there. 20:24:08 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:24:29 what is a good portable library for date manipulation? something to parse dates and times in various formats (I know it could get messy/complex) 20:26:18 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:49 Fare: my latest fantasy project is "SyML" which is a kind of typeless, machine level C (but without all the parens like ML) with ML'ish sum/product types, single arg only fun/rtn and only a jmp instruction or two (like a few conditionals) for a "calling convention." But it's just a fantasy at this point :-( 20:27:18 Is it possible to add new documentation types (second argument to DOCUMENTATION) in SBCL? 20:28:01 -!- nieve__ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-4-12.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:28:16 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:28:42 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-081-146.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:28:52 ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.89] has joined #lisp 20:29:25 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-52.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:29:33 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 20:30:00 hello 20:30:11 lichtblau: ping 20:32:16 ? 20:32:52 Does CLHS specify somewhere that a symbol's plist is preserved by the file-compiler? 20:33:04 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:06 Never mind -- I see that I can just do a DEFMETHOD for this. 20:33:46 lichtblau: you wanted to know about paepcke's book ? 20:33:58 But is there a best practice for adding documentation strings of new types that go into fasls? 20:34:10 Summermute: have you seen TAL and similar things? 20:34:32 fugue88 [n=dsowen@fugue88.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #lisp 20:34:42 fusss: beside net-telent-date, we have something at ITA 20:35:01 if you want to turn it into a library, I could send you the source 20:35:08 Fare: local-time is broken for me 20:35:18 Fare: I _will_ turn it into a library 20:35:50 paste it or email it to me, email in pvt 20:36:18 is it kosher to put stuff into the info table? 20:36:38 Fare: I need to take a much closer look at TAL. My "real" project is an ML'ish language with quite a few twists and my target language is currently raw x86 (which now at least covers Windoze/Linux x86 and modern Macintosh) 20:38:08 tcr: Um, why would a compiler be *allowed* to just throw away symbols' plists? 20:39:20 Because it's not specified as far as I can see. And it's what SBCL actually does. 20:39:46 Which is also what I expect 20:40:09 Channeling comedian Steve Reich (sp?) - You ever notice that all the #irc channels discussioins are all about writing compilers except for #compilers? 20:40:26 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.197.246] has joined #lisp 20:41:09 Didn't know about SBCL's behavior there - seems totally brain dead at first glance. 20:41:22 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.197.246] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:41:48 tcr: Why would you "expect" that? 20:42:08 -!- Younder [n=jthing@22.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:42:15 ;;;; By Jess 20:42:15 ;;;; http://grok-code.com 20:42:15 (setq *debug* t) 20:42:15 (setq *test-know* t) 20:42:15 ;; iterates through the vocabulary, tries to answer a joke for each pair of vocabulary words 20:42:16 (defun generate () 20:42:18 (cond (*test-know* (seed-knowledge-test)) 20:42:20 (t (seed-knowledge))) 20:42:22 ; answer jokes for M_1 N_1, M_2 N_2 pairs, where N is a noun, M is a modifier N_1 != N_2 20:42:26 ; modifiers may be null 20:42:27 (do* ((literals (cdr *literal-list*) (cdr literals)) 20:42:28 (word1 (car literals) (car literals))) 20:42:30 ((null (cdr literals))) ; break condition 20:42:32 (cond ((is-POS 'n (gethash word1 *vocab*)) 20:42:34 (dolist (word2 (cdr literals)) 20:42:36 (cond ((is-POS 'n (gethash word2 *vocab*)) 20:42:37 A perfectly valid CLTL2 Lisp compiler should be implementable via interactive compilation only - no interpretation required. 20:42:42 (do* ((literals-m (append *literal-list* (list nil)) (cdr literals-m)) 20:42:42 (mod1 (car literals-m) (car literals-m))) 20:42:43 ((null (cdr literals-m))) ; break condition 20:42:44 (cond ((and (or (null mod1) (is-POS 'm (gethash mod1 *vocab*))) 20:42:46 (anim-match word1 mod1)) ; animated qualities have to match -- "serious lemon" is not allowed 20:42:55 (dolist (mod2 (append (cdr *literal-list*) (list nil))) 20:42:55 (cond ((and (or (null mod2) (is-POS 'm (gethash mod2 *vocab*))) 20:42:56 (anim-match word2 mod2)) ; animated qualitites 20:42:57 (let ((answer (answer-joke word1 word2 mod1 mod2))) 20:42:58 (cond (answer (print-joke word1 word2 mod1 mod2 answer))))))))))))))))) 20:42:59 20:43:09 ;; takes strings or word-props returns true if they have they same animated quatlity 20:43:10 (defun anim-match (str1 str2) 20:43:11 (let ((w-prop1 (cond ((word-prop-p str1) str1) 20:43:11 (t (gethash str1 *vocab*)))) 20:43:12 (w-prop2 (cond ((word-prop-p str2) str2) 20:43:12 Xof, drewc, Xach 20:43:13 (t (gethash str2 *vocab*))))) 20:43:14 (or (null w-prop1) (null w-prop2) 20:43:24 (eq 'b (word-prop-anim w-prop1)) (eq 'b (word-prop-anim w-prop2)) 20:43:25 (eq (word-prop-anim w-prop1) (word-prop-anim w-prop2))))) 20:43:26 20:43:27 ;; returns a string that will answer the joke, if possible 20:43:28 ;; word1 and word2 are strings 20:43:28 antifuchs: 20:43:28 ;; mod1 and mod2 are strings or nil if no modifier 20:43:29 (defun answer-joke (word1 word2 mod1 mod2) 20:43:30 (let ((derive-word1 (derive-words word1)) 20:43:40 (derive-word2 (derive-words word2)) 20:43:41 (derive-mod1 (derive-words mod1)) 20:43:42 (derive-mod2 (derive-words mod2)) 20:43:43 (answer nil) 20:43:43 (answer-val 0) ; heuristic for how good the joke is -- funniest is 10 20:43:44 (threshold 5)) ; jokes with answer-val strictly less than threshold aren't considered funny, and won't be returned 20:43:45 (cond (*debug* (format t "answer-joke: ~O ~O and ~O ~O~%" mod1 word1 mod2 word2))) 20:43:46 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:43:46 Bah I think we need more ops 20:43:56 ; no modifiers 20:43:56 (cond ((and (null mod1) (null mod2)) 20:43:57 (dolist (d1 derive-word1) 20:43:58 (dolist (d2 derive-word2) 20:43:59 (let ((a (make-compound (word-prop-literal d1) (word-prop-literal d2)))) 20:44:00 (cond (a (cond ((is-POS 'm a) 20:44:00 (setq answer (format nil "I don't know, but it's ~O" (word-prop-literal a)))) 20:44:01 ((is-POS 'n a) 20:44:12 (setq answer (word-prop-literal a)))) 20:44:13 (setq answer-val 10)))) ; found answer with N compound 20:44:13 20:44:14 (cond ((and (> 8 answer-val) (>= 8 threshold) 20:44:15 (member (word-prop-literal d1) (mapcar 'word-prop-literal (word-prop-homophone d2)) :test 'string-equal)) 20:44:16 (let ((ans-prop (cond ((is-POS 'x d1) d1) 20:44:16 ((is-POS 'x d2) d2) 20:44:24 this is impressive 20:44:27 ((is-POS 'b d1) d1) 20:44:28 ((is-POS 'b d2) d2) 20:44:28 ((is-POS 'm d1) d1) 20:44:29 ((is-POS 'm d2) d2) 20:44:29 <_3b> is today bad paste day or something? think that's the third one recently 20:44:30 (t d1))) 20:44:31 (ans-phrase (cond ((or (is-POS 'm d1) (is-POS 'm d2)) 'm)))) 20:44:32 (cond (ans-phrase (setq answer (format nil "I don't know, but it's ~O" (word-prop-literal ans-prop)))) 20:44:32 (t (setq answer (word-prop-literal ans-prop))))) 20:44:37 Why the fuck does he not get kicked by the irc server for excessive flood? 20:44:39 wow, lispm is really super obnoxious 20:44:43 (setq answer-val 8))))) ; found an answer where the 2 derived words are a homophone pair 20:44:44 20:44:44 (cond ((and (> 3 answer-val) (>= 3 threshold)) 20:44:45 (setq answer (make-substring-word word1 word2 :POS 'n)) 20:44:46 (cond (answer (setq answer-val 3))))) ; found answer N with a substring match 20:44:47 20:44:48 (cond ((and (> 3 answer-val) (>= 3 threshold)) 20:44:53 *Adlai* visualizes lispm sitting at his keyboard facepalming madly once he realizes what has happened 20:44:58 (dolist (d1 derive-word1) 20:44:59 (dolist (d2 derive-word2) 20:45:00 (cond ((and (is-POS 'm d1) (is-POS 'n d2)) 20:45:00 (setq answer (format nil "~O ~O" (word-prop-literal d1) (word-prop-literal d2))) 20:45:01 (setq answer-val 3)) 20:45:02 ((and (is-POS 'm d2) (is-POS 'n d1)) 20:45:03 (setq answer (format nil "~O ~O" (word-prop-literal d2) (word-prop-literal d1))) 20:45:06 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:45:08 <_3b> tcr: clients are 'smart' and paste slowly 20:45:13 (setq answer-val 3)))))))) ; found answer with an MN 20:45:14 ; 1 modifier 20:45:15 ((or (null mod2) (null mod1)) 20:45:16 (cond ((null mod1) 20:45:16 tcr: many IRC clients time bulk output so that you don't get flood kciked 20:45:16 (let ((tmp nil)) 20:45:17 (setq tmp mod1) (setq mod1 mod2) (setq mod2 tmp) 20:45:18 (setq tmp word1) (setq word1 word2) (setq word2 tmp) 20:45:19 (setq tmp derive-mod1) (setq derive-mod1 derive-mod2) (setq derive-mod2 tmp) 20:45:20 *kicked 20:45:29 (setq tmp derive-word1)(setq derive-word1 derive-word2) (setq derive-word2 tmp)))) 20:45:30 (cond ((and (> 7 answer-val) (>= 7 threshold)) 20:45:31 (dolist (d derive-word2) 20:45:32 (dolist (d-word (append (cond ((gethash word1 *vocab*) (list (gethash word1 *vocab*)))) 20:45:33 derive-word1)) 20:45:33 (cond ((make-compound (word-prop-literal d) (word-prop-literal d-word)) 20:45:39 Very smart of them 20:45:44 (dolist (d-mod (append (cond ((gethash mod1 *vocab*) (list (gethash mod1 *vocab*)))) 20:45:44 derive-mod1)) 20:45:45 (cond ((make-compound (word-prop-literal d) (word-prop-literal d-mod)) 20:45:46 (let ((a1 (make-compound (word-prop-literal d) (word-prop-literal d-word))) 20:45:47 (a2 (make-compound (word-prop-literal d) (word-prop-literal d-mod)))) 20:45:48 (cond ((and (is-POS 'm a1) (is-POS 'n a2)) 20:45:48 tcr: too smart for our own good! 20:45:53 <_3b> yeah, i try to remember to turn that off 20:45:55 lol 20:45:58 (setq answer (format nil "~O ~O" (word-prop-literal a1) (word-prop-literal a2))) 20:45:59 (setq answer-val 8)) 20:46:00 ((and (is-POS 'm a2) (is-POS 'n a1)) 20:46:01 (setq answer (format nil "~O ~O" (word-prop-literal a2) (word-prop-literal a1))) 20:46:01 (setq answer-val 8)) 20:46:02 ((and (is-POS 'm a1) (is-POS 'm a2)) 20:46:03 (setq answer (format nil "I don't know, but it's ~O and ~O" 20:46:14 (word-prop-literal a1) (word-prop-literal a2))) 20:46:15 (setq answer-val 8)) 20:46:15 That's definitely the longest code of lisp I've ever seen :) 20:46:15 ((and (is-POS 'n a1) (is-POS 'n a2)) 20:46:16 (setq answer (format nil "~O and ~O" (word-prop-literal a1) (word-prop-literal a2))) 20:46:17 (setq answer-val 8)))))))))))))) 20:46:17 20:46:18 ; 2 modifiers 20:46:19 (t 20:46:21 (let ((a1 (make-substring-word word1 word2 :POS 'm)) 20:46:21 !ops 20:46:30 (a2 (make-substring-word mod1 mod2 :POS 'n))) 20:46:31 (cond ((and a1 a2 (anim-match (gethash a1 *vocab*) (gethash a2 *vocab*)) 20:46:32 (<= (length word1) (length word2)) (<= (length mod1) (length mod2))) 20:46:33 (setq answer (format nil "~O ~O" a1 a2)) 20:46:33 (setq answer-val 8)))) ; made M N, both formed with substrings 20:46:34 20:46:35 (cond ((and (> 8 answer-val) (>= 8 threshold)) 20:46:35 So, bets .. How long it will be? 20:46:45 (let ((a1 (make-substring-word word1 word2 :POS 'n)) 20:46:46 (a2 (make-substring-word mod1 mod2 :POS 'm))) 20:46:47 (cond ((and a1 a2 (anim-match (gethash a1 *vocab*) (gethash a2 *vocab*)) 20:46:48 (<= (length word1) (length word2)) (<= (length mod1) (length mod2))) 20:46:49 (setq answer (format nil "~O ~O" a2 a1)) 20:46:49 (setq answer-val 8)))))) ; made M N, both formed with substrings 20:46:59 I have no fucking idea but lispm should plug his network cable 20:47:00 (cond ((and (> 8 answer-val) (>= 8 threshold)) 20:47:01 (let ((ans-list1 nil) 20:47:01 (ans-list2 nil)) 20:47:02 (dolist (d derive-word1) 20:47:03 (dolist (m derive-mod1) 20:47:04 (setq ans-list1 (append ans-list1 (let ((tmp (make-compound (word-prop-literal d) (word-prop-literal m)))) 20:47:05 (cond (tmp (list tmp)))))))) 20:47:06 (dolist (d derive-word2) 20:47:08 hey that's cheap, the comments are duplicated 20:47:16 (dolist (m derive-mod2) 20:47:17 (setq ans-list2 (append ans-list2 (let ((tmp (make-compound (word-prop-literal d) (word-prop-literal m)))) 20:47:17 (cond (tmp (list tmp)))))))) 20:47:18 (cond ((and ans-list1 ans-list2) 20:47:19 20:47:20 (dolist (a1 ans-list1) 20:47:21 (dolist (a2 ans-list2) 20:47:21 heh 20:47:23 (cond ((and (is-POS 'm a1) (is-POS 'm a2)) 20:47:24 mnl [n=mnl@pD9E6BBF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:26 so who figured out what the code does? 20:47:26 I'm trying MIRC's flood protection - never used it, so my fingers are crossed 20:47:32 (setq answer (format nil "I don't know, but its ~O and ~O" 20:47:33 (word-prop-literal a1) (word-prop-literal a2))) 20:47:34 (setq answer-val 8)) 20:47:34 ((and (is-POS 'n a1) (is-POS 'm a2) (anim-match a1 a2)) 20:47:35 (setq answer (format nil "~O ~O" (word-prop-literal a2) (word-prop-literal a1))) 20:47:36 (setq answer-val 8)) 20:47:42 <_3b> tcr: had a comment at the top i think 20:47:42 there is a function coming called print-jokes 20:47:46 ((and (is-POS 'm a1) (is-POS 'n a2) (anim-match a1 a2)) 20:47:47 (setq answer (format nil "~O ~O" (word-prop-literal a1) (word-prop-literal a2))) 20:47:49 (setq answer-val 8)))))))))))) 20:47:49 20:47:50 ; the joke loses "funny points" if the answer and question contain the same word 20:47:50 (cond ((substring word1 answer) 20:47:51 (setq answer-val (- answer-val 4)))) 20:47:53 tcr: " ;; iterates through the vocabulary, tries to answer a joke for each pair of vocabulary words" 20:48:02 (cond ((substring word2 answer) 20:48:02 (setq answer-val (- answer-val 4)))) 20:48:03 (cond ((substring mod1 answer) 20:48:04 (setq answer-val (- answer-val 4)))) 20:48:05 (cond ((substring mod2 answer) 20:48:06 (setq answer-val (- answer-val 4)))) 20:48:06 ; it also loses points if the punchline has been used before 20:48:07 (cond ((gethash answer *punchline*) 20:48:18 (setq answer-val (- answer-val (* 4 (gethash answer *punchline*)))))) 20:48:18 ; only return joke if it is funny enough 20:48:19 (cond ((>= answer-val threshold) 20:48:20 (add-punchline answer) ; record the punchline so it is less likely to be used again 20:48:21 20:48:21 Xof, Xach, antifuchs, drewc 20:48:22 (cond ((not (null mod1)) ; record the elements of the question so we don't get more jokes with the question and the punchline switched 20:48:22 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:48:22 I'll be back in an hour 20:48:26 hmm, I wonder what this joke's punchline is! 20:48:28 *xristos* takes notes 20:48:31 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.197.246] has joined #lisp 20:48:32 (add-punchline (format nil "~O ~O" mod1 word1)))) 20:48:33 (cond ((not (null mod2)) 20:48:34 (add-punchline (format nil "~O ~O" mod2 word2)))) 20:48:34 20:48:35 answer)))) 20:48:36 ;; adds the the punchline 20:48:37 (defun add-punchline (str) 20:48:38 (let ((num-punch (gethash str *punchline*))) 20:48:39 (cond (num-punch (setf (gethash str *punchline*) (+ num-punch 1))) 20:48:48 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-60-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:48:49 (t (setf (gethash str *punchline*) 1))))) 20:48:50 ;; returns 't if str1 is contained in str2 20:48:50 ;; returns nil otherwise (returns nil if str1 is nil) 20:48:51 (defun substring (str1 str2) 20:48:52 (cond ((null str1) nil) 20:48:53 ((null str2) nil) 20:48:53 ... in bed! 20:48:54 ((equal str1 "") 't) 20:48:55 ((equal str2 "") nil) 20:48:55 I wonder if this code is now public domain 20:48:56 we should rename the channel to #lispm 20:48:57 (t (or (starts-with str2 str1) 20:48:59 I wish IRC servers didn't have such ineffective flood-limiting 20:49:01 oh god. 20:49:02 now it is 20:49:06 (substring str1 (string-left-trim (make-array 1 :initial-element (aref str2 0)) str2)))))) 20:49:06 ;; returns 't if str1 starts with str2 20:49:07 (defun starts-with (str1 str2) 20:49:08 (do ((i 0 (+ i 1))) 20:49:09 ((eq (length str2) i) 't) ; break 20:49:10 (cond ((or (>= i (length str1)) (not (eq (aref str2 i) (aref str1 i)))) 20:49:11 (return nil))))) 20:49:13 ;; arg words should be strings 20:49:16 It makes it *worse* to spread it out over minutes 20:49:21 instead of just letting it all go through at once 20:49:22 ;; returns a word-prop formed by combining the two arg words 20:49:22 ;; the word-prop-literal may contain words that are homophones of known words. 20:49:23 (defun make-compound (word1 word2 &key POS) 20:49:23 lispm: interesting concept! 20:49:24 (let ((ho-list1 (append (list word1) 20:49:25 (cond ((gethash word1 *vocab*) (mapcar 'word-prop-literal 20:49:26 (word-prop-homophone (gethash word1 *vocab*))))))) 20:49:27 (ho-list2 (append (list word2) 20:49:31 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:49:36 "Welcome to #lispm, the #1=(programmable #1#) IRC Channel" 20:49:37 (cond ((gethash word2 *vocab*) (mapcar 'word-prop-literal 20:49:38 (word-prop-homophone (gethash word2 *vocab*))))))) 20:49:38 (answer nil)) 20:49:39 (cond ((and (not (null (gethash word2 *vocab*))) (is-POS POS (gethash word2 *vocab*))) 20:49:40 (dolist (h1 (cdr ho-list1)) 20:49:41 (cond ((and (starts-with word2 h1) (> (length word2) (length h1))) 20:49:43 are all following this code 20:49:48 eh, looks like I messed up a dotted pair 20:49:49 lispm: stop the cat! 20:49:51 (cond ((eq (aref (subseq word2 (length h1)) 0) (char " " 0)) ; there is a space at the break point 20:49:52 (setq answer (make-word-prop :literal (format nil "~O~O" word1 (subseq word2 (length h1))) 20:49:53 :POS (word-prop-POS (gethash word2 *vocab*)) 20:49:54 :anim (word-prop-anim (gethash word2 *vocab*))))) 20:49:55 (t 20:49:56 lolol 20:50:00 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 20:50:00 I see an error on line 139 20:50:02 fusss: this is no ordinary cat, it balances parents. 20:50:04 *parens 20:50:05 (setq answer (make-word-prop :literal (format nil "~O-~O" word1 (subseq word2 (length h1))) 20:50:06 :POS (word-prop-POS (gethash word2 *vocab*)) 20:50:07 :anim (word-prop-anim (gethash word2 *vocab*))))))))))) 20:50:07 20:50:08 20:50:09 (cond ((and (not (null (gethash word1 *vocab*))) (is-POS POS (gethash word1 *vocab*))) 20:50:10 (dolist (h2 (cdr ho-list2)) 20:50:11 Xof: kickban this newb 20:50:15 if you can read this lispm, quitting the irc client would stop this :-P 20:50:20 fusss: newb ? 20:50:20 (cond ((and (starts-with word1 h2) (> (length word1) (length h2))) 20:50:21 (cond ((eq (aref (subseq word1 (length h2)) 0) (char " " 0)) ; there is a space at the break point 20:50:22 (setq answer (make-word-prop :literal (format nil "~O~O" word2 (subseq word1 (length h2))) 20:50:23 :POS (word-prop-POS (gethash word1 *vocab*)) 20:50:23 :anim (word-prop-anim (gethash word1 *vocab*))))) 20:50:24 (t 20:50:29 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177125031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 20:50:32 fusss: he's not a newb, just somebody afflicted with C-yitis 20:50:45 benny: +1 20:50:55 lispm [n=joswig@e177125031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:50:59 foom: you mean (incf benny) 20:51:02 I told him minutes early to plug his network cable 20:51:05 now I'll never know what comes at the end 20:51:17 lispm: can you at least tell us what the punchline is? 20:51:21 we waited for long enough... 20:51:21 jeti [n=jeti@p548EE499.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:34 is it over? 20:51:36 I restarted the client 20:51:37 yeah 20:51:37 Adlai: ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) 20:51:59 Fare: eh, I think "is it over?" is a good enough punchline for me... 20:52:07 Younder [n=jthing@22.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:52:12 oh great. 20:52:18 that is the punchline. 20:52:34 lispm: FYI: this is how it looks to us: http://paste.lisp.org/display/89327 20:53:00 ah okay 20:53:15 benny: watch it, copying that much text... you might paste it in the channel by accident. 20:53:19 I did not understand the the program was still pasting the stuff 20:53:22 so, where's the error 20:54:04 It was just one accidentally paste on my side, sorry 20:54:19 Adlai: my kill-ring still has the evil inside of it ;-) 20:54:23 lispm: both ERC and irssi (and probably others, too) space out bulk sends so that you don't get floodkicked 20:54:27 You should figure out if you can switch off flood protection in your irc client, lispm. 20:54:37 right 20:54:45 looking at the preferences right now 20:54:46 there's actually a patch for ERC which prompts you if you paste more than 2 lines 20:54:55 it's on Emacswiki 20:54:59 that's useful, irssi does that with 6 lines 20:55:06 Adlai: that's a *client* feature? What the heck braindead idiots made clients do that?? 20:55:21 I always thought it was the server spacing out the floods like that. 20:55:32 foom: nope, it's clients trying to get you kicked less often 20:55:33 <_3b> nope, server would just drop you 20:55:36 nope, it's the client trying to be extra smart so you could share lots of text 20:55:37 -!- Nshag [i=user@193.248.205.252] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:55:46 jesus, that's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard 20:55:51 I doubt it's intended for situations like this 20:55:52 lol 20:55:58 more features are always good! 20:56:06 probably more for if you say a bunch of messages in rapid succession, to avoid you getting flood kicked for that. 20:56:12 If they're going to have a special feature for dealing with bulk text, they could at least ask you if you really wanted to. 20:56:29 yeah, there's a patch for ERC that does that, but for some braindead reason, it's not in Emacs 23 20:56:36 (but the rest of ERC is) 20:57:00 irssi does both, but not for every case... if you do /exec -o yes yes that will bypass the "Do you really want to spam the channel?" message 20:57:08 foom: You don't care as much in IM messengers and you sometimes share history via pasting. Perhaps it's for those applications. 20:57:11 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:57:27 the flood protection looks a bit crude 20:58:53 tcr: in IM messengers they don't spread out lines for 10 minutes. 20:59:14 they just paste the whole damn thing all at once. 20:59:18 it's a really useful feature! 20:59:37 looks like my client does not have a warning feature 21:00:08 time for a 'bug' report 21:00:41 -!- pon][ [n=pon][@h202n2-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit ["leaving"] 21:01:45 n2kra [i=ad3fd707@gateway/web/freenode/x-ytwjfwomeahlvhbr] has joined #lisp 21:02:11 -!- Fare [n=Fare@63.107.91.99] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:02:41 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 21:03:09 p0a [n=user@athedsl-381599.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:03:13 p0a pasted "cl-yacc" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89328 21:03:23 marioxcc [n=user@201.132.138.219] has joined #lisp 21:03:53 Hello I'm trying this code. Typing "1 2 stop" gives me "Unexpected terminal INTEGER (value 2). Expected one of: (NIL)". 21:04:02 -!- mnl [n=mnl@pD9E6BBF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:04:03 I can't figure out what is broken 21:05:27 (it's about cl-yacc) 21:05:27 -!- Axius [n=ojof@92.85.208.59] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:07:37 Krystof [n=csr21@82-35-80-105.cable.ubr03.dals.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:08:47 n2kra_ [i=ad3fd707@gateway/web/freenode/x-zmyvrmudstqycndl] has joined #lisp 21:08:48 Krystof: where were you in our time of darkness!? 21:08:57 minion: tell Krystof about logs 21:08:58 Krystof: have a look at logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 21:10:49 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 21:11:14 -!- madnificent [n=madnific@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:11:49 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:11:49 -!- n2kra_ [i=ad3fd707@gateway/web/freenode/x-zmyvrmudstqycndl] has left #lisp 21:11:53 Krystof: That's not the first time that no op was around and something bad happened. I'm not sure what the right avenue would be to suggest someone to become another op, but I'd suggest foom. 21:12:12 n2kra_ [i=ad3fd707@gateway/web/freenode/x-zmyvrmudstqycndl] has joined #lisp 21:12:24 tcr: what about the_unmaker or Younder ? 21:12:40 i'm ok, learning about lambda now.. 21:12:52 I think that clarified the issue. 21:14:03 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:14:40 anyone? 21:15:08 Adlai: and lo, Krystof was gone from the channel, and there was darkness 21:15:14 and he returned, and there was light 21:15:19 and they said, correlation is not causation 21:15:28 -!- Harag [n=phil@41.208.200.164] has left #lisp 21:15:34 Harag [n=phil@41.208.200.164] has joined #lisp 21:15:39 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:15:42 "correlation is not causation"? 21:15:52 yes, they said that 21:16:06 any weblocks experts here? 21:16:43 p0a: the foolish ones denied that Krystof's AWOL from the channel caused the pasted plague. 21:16:52 I pity them 21:17:29 *Krystof* laughs at the logs 21:17:37 oh come now, it's worth preserving that kind of metahumour 21:17:37 *lispm* hides 21:17:55 I nominate gavino for op. 21:18:07 when Krystof is gone, day turns to night, water turns to mud, and #lisp turns to #lispm 21:18:18 nieve_ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-150-156.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:56 at least it was no C code ;-) 21:19:12 lispm: what does this episode say about the reliability of LispMs? 21:19:16 if your function doesn't fit on your screen, it's too long, lispm 21:19:31 Adlai: this is a Mac 21:19:33 Does anyone know cl-yacc? My post is http://paste.lisp.org/display/89328 21:19:41 ahh, that explains everything! 21:19:48 -!- ziga` [n=user@89.142.53.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:19:56 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:20:06 *Adlai* notes that 'Mac' rhymes with 'pebkac' (sorry lispm) 21:20:23 -!- nieve [n=nieve@pool-173-52-9-218.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:21:05 -!- n2kra [i=ad3fd707@gateway/web/freenode/x-ytwjfwomeahlvhbr] has left #lisp 21:21:11 pls take a look at my program I need to leave soon and I want to finish it 21:21:25 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 21:21:29 just paste it straight into the channel 21:21:39 hi 21:21:48 lol 21:22:00 <_3b> ah, i guess using 2 component textures helps, 8192x8192 brains at 60fps, in a window big enough to cover both monitors :) 21:22:08 you need a good client, though 21:22:13 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:23:04 ziga` [n=user@89.142.53.32] has joined #lisp 21:23:24 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-081-146.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:23:27 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:38 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-084-023.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:23:40 p0a: I'm sorry, I have no clue how cl-yacc works. It might help those who do if you include backtraces of errors you're getting. 21:23:41 is 'slava' that hangs around this channel THE slava pestov? 21:24:01 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:03 ziga`: yes. 21:24:07 ok thanks 21:24:09 :) 21:24:39 how many slava pestovs do you think there are? 21:24:44 -!- nieve_ [n=nieve@pool-173-52-150-156.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:24:45 haha 21:24:47 3 21:24:51 no wait, 4 21:24:53 no, 3 21:24:55 lispm: if you're still on a mac, I recommend LimeChat. it's a very sane irc client (and has a very good paste accident failure mode) 21:24:57 definately 3 21:24:57 Adlai: I don't think you'll be much help if you have never used it... I think the problem is the way i use the yacc:define-parser macro 21:25:35 nieve [n=nieve@pool-173-52-150-156.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:37 pkhuong: I just realized I don't understand the conservative part of gencgc; how can a copying collector be conservative? 21:25:42 antifuchs: this one is 'Linkinus' 21:25:58 p0a: Are you in SLIME? Maybe macroexpand the form, to see if it goes to anything sane? 21:26:00 lispm: I know that one. it's expensive and seemed inferior when I tested it (: 21:26:24 antifuchs: it satisfied my wish for eye candy ;-) 21:26:35 slAVA 21:26:40 -!- ziga` [n=user@89.142.53.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:26:53 slava: it's "mostly copying" 21:26:57 lispm: Aquamacs offers RCIRC mode 21:27:05 Adlai: I tried. It expands to a state machine 21:27:09 it doesn't move pages to which there are ambiguous pointers 21:27:09 well, check it out when you have the time. I haven't used anything else in the last few months 21:27:19 with yacc specifics and such. it's a bit complicated for me to read 21:27:43 konr [n=konrad@201.82.141.180] has joined #lisp 21:27:58 Isn't anyone active here with cl-yacc any experience? 21:28:00 slava: anything that might be live isn't moved. 21:28:12 the scheme is described in some paper. 21:28:32 ah 21:30:10 hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 21:32:18 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["leaving"] 21:33:57 *p0a* pokes the idlers 21:34:13 *Adlai* p0kes p0a 21:35:49 saikatc [n=saikatc@71.135.109.79] has joined #lisp 21:36:57 *p_l* pokes p0a witha pointy object 21:37:19 *p0a* doesn't forgive that 21:37:23 pkhuong: how often does it end up scanning the entire heap? 21:37:30 pkhuong: is there any way to enable verbose logging? 21:37:38 It sucks being stuck somewhere when you want to move on and program more... 21:38:37 -!- nipra [n=nipra@117.195.101.60] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:39:16 -!- cvandusen [n=user@12.185.80.194] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:40:00 it is normal to not get all the functions when starting with lisp right? 21:40:21 to not understand, you mean? 21:40:25 the_unmaker: with all languages you learn the API over time 21:40:35 the_unmaker: no, they arrive one at a time, often brought by storks. 21:40:46 it's normal for gavino, i believe 21:42:01 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@84.46.77.30] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:42:39 no, when Lisp starts, it gets all functions 21:43:03 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:43:11 don't leave a function behind! 21:43:14 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:43:42 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 21:44:40 GrayMagiker [n=steve@c-68-54-2-128.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:10 sebaseba [n=carnieri@189.32.41.195] has joined #lisp 21:45:45 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:47:15 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-381599.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 21:48:16 addled_ [n=alawson@77.208.164.56] has joined #lisp 21:54:25 kpreid [n=kpreid@209.217.212.34] has joined #lisp 21:54:54 -!- nieve [n=nieve@pool-173-52-150-156.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:58:28 If I wanted to check for the approximate equality of two long floats in clisp, what is an acceptable/recommended value for 'epsilon' 21:58:32 GrayMagiker pasted "closeto" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89330 21:58:55 it depends on your application 21:59:11 (and in clisp, on long-float-digits) 21:59:20 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:00:13 Ah. I am doing cosine distance (which involves sqrt) on vectors of word counts in files. 22:00:26 Seidenberg said Verizon would still be open to carrying the iPhone, however. It's not clear when AT&T's exclusive deal with Apple expires. 22:01:27 GrayMagiker: so? 22:02:01 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@71.135.109.79] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:02:12 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209.217.212.34] has quit [] 22:02:34 -!- fatalnix1995 [n=fatalnix@pool-70-16-70-118.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:02:37 I was trying to provide insight into the application. 22:05:01 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 22:06:21 "cosine distance" is not an application 22:06:23 -!- addled_ [n=alawson@77.208.164.56] has quit [Client Quit] 22:06:55 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:07:11 the question you need to ask yourself are "what is the meaning of the numbers that I am comparing?" 22:07:13 Indeed. I see your distinction now. 22:07:25 Osaka [n=yuki@pool-71-100-33-10.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:28 (that sentence no grammar, sorry) 22:08:55 What does setting long-float-digits do? When I start up clisp on my machine it is has no value. 22:09:27 clisp.cons.org says "The default length used when LONG-FLOATs are READ is given by the place (EXT:LONG-FLOAT-DIGITS)." 22:09:46 demmel [n=Adium@dslb-188-098-203-107.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:11 Does that mean just when they are READ or does it actually increase the precision of all long-floats? for example ones generated by the sqrt function. 22:10:40 the latter, as I understand it 22:10:43 (I don't use clisp) 22:12:13 ok, thanks. I will have to look into it further then. Thanks for the advice. 22:12:44 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@e179161048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 22:16:23 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:17:00 what could be causing a frequent sbcl swank-socket closage? 22:17:30 GrayMagiker: it extends the precision iirc. at least it did years ago when i was doing some tinkering with that. it's quite cool. :) 22:17:37 it's dying on me like .. something that dies very often 22:17:57 fusss: paste *inferior-lisp* and *slime-events* 22:18:10 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 22:18:10 first guess --- encoding problems 22:18:29 hypno: thanks. 22:18:39 -!- drgnvale [n=acristin@209.16.73.144] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:19:21 dreish [n=dreish@207.138.47.173] has joined #lisp 22:20:38 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:21:45 fusss pasted "netcraft confirms sbcl" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89332 22:21:58 stassats: there 22:22:32 stassats: you nailed it! 22:22:41 what should I do about it? 22:22:58 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-183.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 22:23:20 what's the encoding used? 22:23:43 :LATIN-1 22:23:48 default 22:24:05 netcraft confirms SBCL ? 22:24:11 what the heck is that? 22:24:22 but the files i am reading are utf-8 and i am using :external-format :utf-8 with all open/close calls 22:24:26 the_unmaker: secret alien technology sauce. We don't talk about it too much in public. 22:24:33 two steps: start sbcl with LANG=en_US.UTF-8 and (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) on the emacs side 22:24:50 fusss: but are you printing anything that's in those files to the repl (or the minibuffer)? 22:25:15 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:25:18 Krystof: naturally, that's how i code. write in the repl and paste to the editor when it looks good 22:25:50 so there's one open/close call that isn't using :external-format :utf-8: the one that opens the socket that communicates with emacs 22:26:57 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:27:09 stassats: echo "export LANG=en_US.UTF-8" >> ~/.profile; echo "(setq slime-net-coding ...)" ~/.emacs should be OK right? 22:27:24 Krystof: of course :-D 22:27:55 should be 22:28:04 x2cast [n=alvaro@43.232.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:28:15 cheers all! 22:28:30 hellos!! 22:28:34 if you like having such LANG everywhere (and en_US part is just for example) 22:28:54 depending on your system, you might need to generate the support files for that locale 22:29:27 (on debianoids, that's /usr/sbin/locale-gen or dpkg-reconfigure locales; dunno on other systems) 22:29:30 I have a little bit weird question... 22:30:02 I'm learning AutoLisp, which, if you don't know, is the lisp implemented for Autocad 22:30:18 unfortunately, this channel is about Common Lisp 22:30:24 I don't really learning lisp this way, but is what we have here 22:30:38 stassats: yeah I guess so, but I didn't finish my question 22:31:08 the suspense is killing 22:31:31 My question is: I want to use and learn another lisp, and then port the things and exercises to Autolisp 22:31:34 which one? 22:31:45 there are many variants, I just need some clarification 22:31:53 which one is supposed to be the "standard" 22:32:05 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.58.146] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:32:14 well, the answer of this channel is "Common Lisp", of course 22:32:23 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:32:32 guys at #scheme would tell you "Scheme" 22:32:51 and what are the main differences? 22:33:20 x2cast: mainly, CL is awesome, and Scheme is lame and for nerds. 22:33:26 that's pretty much the main difference. 22:33:29 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 22:33:30 but I think it's pretty convincing. 22:33:34 saikatc [n=saikatc@adsl-68-122-69-170.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:01 There's ponies in the standard library for CL. In Scheme, you're lucky if you even get pity candy. 22:34:17 :D 22:34:26 so library support is a big difference I see 22:34:36 The ponies are really what sold me wrt CL. 22:34:37 but capabilities are mostly the same? 22:34:41 can't argue with ponies. 22:34:41 x2cast: if you use Common Lisp, you'll be able to write real programs 22:34:53 if you use Scheme, you'll be able to puzzle over the yin-yang continuation puzzle 22:35:33 x2cast: tl;dr: arguments about scheme vs cl usually devolve into ego, or intellectual wanking. Pick whatever looks nice. I prefer CL. 22:35:47 you need a lot more than what ANSI CL offers to write real programs 22:35:48 are there like many implementations of CL also? (I'm using linux) 22:36:00 i write real programs in scheme... 22:36:23 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-084-023.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:36:43 x2cast: yes, but the odds of code being portable are better than with scheme. Sometimes, though, that doesn't really matter. 22:36:45 x2cast: yes, there are about ten implementations of CL that'll run on Linux 22:36:52 slava: can you give me a credible reason to believe Ponies are not enough? 22:37:02 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@43-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["leaving"] 22:37:07 don't tase me bro 22:37:16 slava: are you THE slava pestov? 22:37:19 I thought so. 22:37:33 depends on "how real is real" 22:38:35 -!- kami-` [n=user@p5B20E77D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:39:34 Adlai: then which one is supposed to be mature and/or fast? 22:39:51 x2cast: hmm, there are mature and fast implementations of both. 22:39:56 -!- jeti [n=jeti@p548EE499.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 22:40:02 sbcl, clozure cl 22:40:15 on the free side 22:40:28 *Adlai* thought you meant between Scheme and CL 22:40:49 common lisp :) 22:40:54 I think I'll learn CL 22:40:57 x2cast: yeah, SBCL and CCL are both great. 22:40:59 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-zimoqpbwvahughdh] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:41:04 ok, cool 22:41:05 minion: tell x2cast about sbcl 22:41:06 x2cast: please see sbcl: Steel Bank Common Lisp is an open source / free software Common Lisp implementation. http://www.cliki.net/sbcl 22:41:13 minion: ccl for x2cast 22:41:17 x2cast: please see ccl: OpenMCL is now called Clozure Common Lisp (CCL). http://www.cliki.net/ccl 22:41:23 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:41:36 what about that Clojure? 22:41:46 running on the jvm... 22:42:04 I guess is a dangerous question here 22:42:05 :D 22:42:17 yeah, we don't take kindly to folks who mention Clojure 22:42:34 some like it, i don't 22:42:47 well I ask because of my ignorance 22:42:48 in any case, #clojure can tell you more about it. 22:43:07 Clojure is good for some things, but if you want a lisp that's 22:43:08 Adlai: we don't? 22:43:12 eh 22:43:19 if you have comparative questions, like "can CL run on the JVM?", we have give answers like "sure, look into ABCL." 22:43:43 if you want a lisp that's mature and powerful, I'd say you should look at SBCL or CCL 22:43:43 ok... I'm going to try to make some things work in SBCL 22:44:10 sbcl is generally recommended 22:44:18 good for learning, too 22:44:21 I don't see what's wrong with people talking about Clojure. It seems like an interesting lisp project to me. 22:44:38 the book to read is PCL, Practical Common Lisp, excellent introduction 22:45:15 yeah I've heard about it 22:45:17 minion: tell x2cast about PCL 22:45:18 x2cast: please see PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 22:45:19 Guthur [n=Michael@host86-140-191-199.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:29 foom - sure, they've worked out a concurrency model that's more imaginable in CL than what Erlang has. 22:45:34 also SICP, or something like that 22:45:35 foom: There are many interesting ideas behind Clojure... too bad clojure is in the middle. 22:45:51 SICP is not for learning Lisp in the first place 22:46:00 what about multithreading in lisp? 22:46:03 how is that done? 22:46:06 paradigm? 22:46:07 SICP is for learning about how to structure and interpret programs 22:46:09 PCL is a useful introduction into programming with CL 22:46:11 Adlai: in the mdidle of what? 22:46:20 slava: between you and the interesting ideas :D 22:46:21 x2cast - there's no special paradigm about it. 22:46:24 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-evqtvxziorpbgoqr] has joined #lisp 22:46:28 x2cast: see the SBCL manual, it is described there in detail 22:46:42 sbcl supports multi-threading 22:46:45 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@82-35-80-105.cable.ubr03.dals.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:47:01 x2cast: there are a fair number of libraries providing different multiprocessing abstractions for CL, like actors, CSP, STM, and just plain threads+locks 22:47:04 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/ 22:47:10 well I mean if it supports message-passing or more a threads and locks paradigm... 22:47:11 lispm: java's threading is more robust though. the gc can run in parallel with the mutator and it works on windows 22:47:26 Adlai: ok, thanks 22:47:45 slava: use Java then 22:48:01 x2cast: threading isn't defined in the CL standard, but implementations provide fairly similar interfaces, and there are libraries which provide abstractions over those interfaces. 22:48:08 the most basic one is bordeaux-threads 22:48:13 minion: tell x2cast about bordeaux-threads 22:48:14 x2cast: direct your attention towards bordeaux-threads: Portable shared-state concurrency for Common Lisp Bordeaux-Threads is a library to write multi-threaded applications in a portable way. http://www.cliki.net/bordeaux-threads 22:49:06 sounds nice to me 22:49:14 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:49:20 can those use multicore efficiently? 22:49:31 the_unmaker: not the gc 22:49:46 slava: CCL has a fully parallel GC... 22:49:55 Adlai: and sexy hash tables! 22:50:12 Adlai: ...and its threads are nice and stable! (relative to SBCL) 22:50:16 what does "parallel GC" mean? 22:50:24 -!- morphling [n=stefan@89.15.139.236] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:50:51 Adlai: really? 22:51:05 afaik, yes, but I could be misunderstanding how it works. 22:51:16 I don't think CCL has a parallel GC 22:51:16 it looks like a stop-the-world mark-compact to me 22:51:43 but x2cast wants to learn Lisp, not parallel GCs 22:52:05 :D 22:52:07 lispm well pointed out 22:52:28 I think I will use lisp mostly for little programs... utilities and such 22:52:29 well, it could do garbage collecting in parallel, while still stopping the world (don't know if it does) 22:52:40 i smell another lisp is slow compared to a.b.c trolling session, like the other night 22:53:13 x2cast, sure, sounds good 22:53:20 the araneida library sounds good also... doing some web server with lisp 22:53:46 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:54:00 araneida is out of vogue 22:54:10 minion: hunchentoot 22:54:11 hunchentoot: Hunchentoot is a web server written in Common Lisp and at the same time a toolkit for building dynamic websites. http://www.cliki.net/hunchentoot 22:54:14 don't worry about speed so much they keep making faster computers anyway, which is why such progress gets made, aim to make your life more easy as a developer 22:55:12 nice, stassats :) 22:55:27 well first I'll have to learn lisp :D 22:55:36 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:55:51 so, read practical common lisp and go back to us 22:56:10 :) I'll do that 22:56:41 thanks everybody for your explanations! 22:57:10 SBCL is being compiled at the moment 22:57:41 x2cast are you going to use emacs for editing? 22:57:59 Guthur: Vim! :) 22:58:20 x2cast cool never tried it myself 22:58:50 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-rsdvdzrrigrutlvj] has joined #lisp 22:58:53 Guthur: You know, when I decided to use Vim I knew I was going to miss ELisp 22:58:57 :( 22:59:13 minion: /help 22:59:13 There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms". 22:59:15 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:59:23 minion: ponies 22:59:24 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``ponies''. 23:00:10 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:00:36 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 23:00:58 x2cast i am sure it will still serve you well, get going with the lispy dev its a pretty nice language, imho 23:01:55 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:04:36 jahmarley [n=jahmarle@88.238.215.244] has joined #lisp 23:08:04 rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:12 -!- rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:08:17 rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-ehhjljwyxnyafvty] has joined #lisp 23:12:40 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:05 -!- jahmarley [n=jahmarle@88.238.215.244] has left #lisp 23:14:26 -!- Harag [n=phil@41.208.200.164] has left #lisp 23:15:41 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has joined #lisp 23:16:01 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-evqtvxziorpbgoqr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:20:34 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:23:47 sorry 23:23:50 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:23:56 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:23:57 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 23:24:37 -!- grouzen_ [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:27:46 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 23:29:42 -!- ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.89] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:30:03 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:30:20 -!- scode_ is now known as scode 23:33:41 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-183.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 23:33:48 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:35:38 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:36:32 xach: looks you missed a lot of the fun. 23:40:30 good night 23:40:37 -!- serichsen [n=svante@hmbg-4d06ddab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:40:43 x2cast: if you will be using vim for editing lisp, check out nekthuth (nekthuth.com) 23:41:27 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 23:41:58 Sikander: oh! thanks 23:42:31 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 23:44:03 cvandusen [n=user@99-166-72-116.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:01 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 23:45:19 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:46:03 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 23:49:15 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:50:49 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:51:07 mnl [n=mnl@pD9E6BBF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:19 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:54:32 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-39-165.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 23:56:38 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:57:27 -!- saikatc [n=saikatc@adsl-68-122-69-170.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [] 23:59:54 goodnight 23:59:56 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]