00:00:38 people who actually do computer programming for more than 20 years are fairly rare but hardly unheard of, I know others 00:00:38 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:01:16 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 00:01:29 -!- trr is now known as troussan 00:01:42 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:01:52 Well, I don't want to become a manager so it's either this or do real work. 00:02:08 emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:08 In a physics sense. 00:02:44 yeah, that's what I meant by professional dilettante 00:03:08 refugees from physics, chemical engineering, tree-surgery, what have you 00:03:48 and of course rock musician 00:04:11 That was my first choice, but it turns out I don't have the charisma or the talent. 00:04:13 actually that layer comprised a more long lasting strata of the overall class of IT doers 00:04:20 *comprises 00:04:58 holycow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 00:05:03 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:05:29 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 00:05:42 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:05:49 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:06:23 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 00:06:25 so "professional dilettante" is much bigger than "refugee from other discipline/trade" 00:06:26 Lycurgus: Would it help if this is my choosen profession and that I only went EE because I already was coding, the CIS program was a joke, and I wanted to know how a computer works? 00:06:31 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:45 no. 00:07:01 :) 00:07:05 lol 00:07:30 (woo-hoo cl-opengl is building in ECL) 00:08:23 -!- troussan is now known as trr 00:09:03 aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 00:10:25 -!- trr is now known as troussan 00:11:08 Guthur: I just ran it, do you have access to my computer now? 00:11:36 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 00:12:23 -!- troussan [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:12:40 troussan [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:24 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:39 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 00:18:58 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:21:04 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-147-93.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:22:36 -!- emacsphan [n=user@plmomi-l10-340.dsl.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:24:35 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:24:59 ASau 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[n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-38-252.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:14:50 For packages, if I have a class with two slots, and I export that class as well as a method, the accessors should be accessible correct? I have a pretty strange issue where I designed one package with two slots, and export the class - when I go into my other package and run defpackage, and use that package I can create the instance of the class fine - but get an error when trying to access the accessors when they should be set. 02:15:11 It's a really weird issue, if it's not obvious what I'm talking about right away I'll toss some code up to illustrate the issue I'm encountering. 02:15:27 TDT: Packages deal in symbols, not classes. Accessors are named by symbols. These symbols are not special. 02:15:57 So when I export, I need to export the accessor symbol names as well? 02:16:09 if you want them to be, ahem, accessible, yes 02:16:31 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:16:39 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:17:03 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:17:10 Hmm....interesting, I'd think that exporting the name of the class (defclass iniParser == (:export :iniParse)) would take care of that...or I hoped anyways. 02:17:27 packages deal in symbols 02:17:34 what those symbols are used for is utterly irrelevant 02:19:03 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 02:19:50 I'll have to read up more on this, only experience I have in packages right now is from PCL, but it's fairly short. Thanks for the help, I'll mess around from there. 02:20:54 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 02:21:30 -!- prxq [n=mommer@g227078142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:23:50 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 02:23:56 Greetings. 02:25:50 howdy 02:26:58 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 02:27:08 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 02:28:03 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 02:28:12 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 02:28:19 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:29:16 -!- TDT [n=dthole@254.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has quit [] 02:30:20 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-33-229.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:30:49 Adlai 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[n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:34:20 -!- isakovic [n=user@206.251.244.144] has left #lisp 04:36:45 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 04:37:47 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 04:43:54 -!- marioxcc [n=user@201.132.49.182] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:45:09 xan__ [n=xan@62.78.225.40] has joined #lisp 04:49:30 iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:07 Is there something like case that uses equal? 04:50:16 -!- xan__ [n=xan@62.78.225.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:50:27 xan__ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 04:50:54 iaindalton: nope, but it's pretty easy to write one. 04:51:10 actually, maybe one of the utility libraries has one, too. 04:51:10 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:51:33 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:41 I have used alexandria:switch for this 04:51:41 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:51:44 ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has joined #lisp 04:51:57 on CLISP, there is ext:fcase, too 04:54:40 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:55:52 I have SBCL; http://www.cliki.net/asdf says it hooks ASDF into require. Would I just (require 'alexandria:switch) to get it? 04:56:29 (require :alexandria) 05:00:26 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:02:56 -!- ricree [n=rareed@c-67-184-13-36.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:03:11 SBCL says it "doesn't know how to require alexandria." I checked *module-provider-functions*, which the manual mentions, and it has asdf::module-provide-asdf, so I assume ASDF should work. Do I need to install before I require? 05:04:34 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:05:32 iaindalton: did you install alexandria into an asdf-aware path? 05:06:01 redblue [i=star@ppp067.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:06:18 arbscht: Install? D'oh. I haven't used ASDF before, but from what little I have gleaned, I thought it was like CPAN. 05:07:38 asdf-install is a tool that can download and install asdf packages for you. alternatively, use clbuild 05:08:11 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:17 but the basic idea is to install the alexandria package into a path where asdf will find it, so that you can use REQUIRE 05:08:49 asdf-install will do that? 05:08:59 usually, yes. 05:09:23 iaindalton: I suggest you check out the alexandria code as described at http://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria/ 05:09:40 Yeah; I pulled that page. 05:11:01 copy it to ~/.sbcl/site/alexandria/, and link ~/.sbcl/site/alexandria/alexandria.asd to ~/.sbcl/systems/alexandria.asd 05:11:02 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:11:07 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:29 is there a portable way to let a compiler know, at :compile-toplevel, that a function is honestly being defined (and shutting it up) before the actual fdefinition happens at load-time? 05:11:39 Hold on; I pulled the tutorial at http://www.cliki.net/FirstStepsWithAsdfAndAsdfInstall and asdf-install is installing alexandria in that location. 05:11:41 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-157-23-181.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 05:12:31 iaindalton: right, my suggestion is to avoid asdf-install or clbuild for now so you can see what it is asdf is doing 05:13:18 arbscht: does it do more than you told me to do manually? 05:13:58 *sykopomp* figured declaim worked... 05:13:59 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:14:01 asdf-install does some other things, yes 05:14:26 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:15:02 iaindalton: I personally recommend getting clbuild, then you can install alexandria with: clbuild install alexandria 05:17:15 minion: tell iaindalton about clbuild 05:17:16 iaindalton: direct your attention towards clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 05:17:28 I read that 05:20:02 Anyway, I had already started the installation with asdf-install when arbscht told me not to. 05:20:26 Thanks for the help; I'll investigate both solutions deep some time. 05:21:16 well, here's the deal: I've got a macro that expands into a function where, somewhere inside, sets an fdefinition. I can't clobber an existing fdefinition at compile time because I need information about anything that is currently defined. The issue is that the compiler (at least SBCL's) warns about an undefined function if a form in the body of this macro that refers to a function defined higher up in the file (with the same macro). 05:22:14 I -think- what I need is some way to portably let the compiler know that there's a function defined, without having to murder an existing function definition until the main function the macro expands into does its work. 05:22:18 CLISP warns as well. 05:26:38 lghtng [n=quassel@pdpc/supporter/active/lghtng] has joined #lisp 05:27:20 hi folks, i have this code: `(,(a) ,(b) ,(c)) a or b or c could give nil. I dont want nil in the resulted list, is there any easy way to prevent nil from being added? 05:28:13 rullie: one common idiom is ,@(unless it-would-give-nil (a)) 05:28:19 eh 05:28:27 (list (a)) instead of (a) 05:29:14 mm ok 05:30:45 rullie: this requires either knowing when it'd give nil, or some anaphoric construct like awhen or when-bind (or you could write those out manually) 05:30:47 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:33:00 ok 05:33:04 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Success] 05:41:08 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:41:32 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:41:42 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 05:43:26 Is there a function that can split "rum ram ruf" into ("rum" "ram ruf")? As far as I can tell, split-sequence always discards what it doesn't split. 05:45:04 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:47:30 -!- egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:50:52 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:51:07 -!- smackarang [n=user@91.190.137.166] has left #lisp 05:52:41 egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has joined #lisp 05:57:07 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:22 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-157-23-181.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 05:59:22 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:59:40 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:03:50 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:04:00 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:16 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:04:21 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 06:13:43 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-57.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:27:28 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:27:46 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:28:04 didi [n=user@189-68-52-251.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 06:28:59 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@163.16.211.21] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:32:49 phoenixi [n=tuomosa@a85-156-197-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 06:44:32 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:44:54 -!- fnordus [n=dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:48:04 hello 06:48:04 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:48:25 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:50:24 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 06:51:29 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:57:29 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:57:40 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 06:59:45 -!- phoenixi [n=tuomosa@a85-156-197-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 07:08:26 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:09:03 ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has joined #lisp 07:11:19 how does detachtty compare to dtach? 07:13:50 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:13:51 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:14:19 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:15:25 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:53 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:38 lichtblau [n=user@pD95405C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:28:08 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:30:17 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host103.190-227-46.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 07:30:35 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:31:32 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host92.201-253-12.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:32:23 -!- rrice1 [n=rrice@adsl-76-244-150-49.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:34:29 -!- borism [n=boris@195.50.215.64] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:34:29 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:35:01 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:39:47 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:50:34 kpreid___ [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 07:50:34 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:52:34 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-73-72.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:55:15 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:55:37 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:01:51 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 08:02:29 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 08:02:33 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:35 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 08:06:47 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-92-210.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 08:12:59 morphling [n=stefan@89.14.130.33] has joined #lisp 08:14:44 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:15:14 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:17:30 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:17:30 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:17:55 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:21:24 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 08:21:24 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:21:58 minion memo for tcr: are you going to commit your ansi-test contributions yourself? 08:22:01 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:22:11 memo for tcr: are you going to commit your ansi-test contributions yourself? 08:22:17 hmm. 08:22:49 minion: hello 08:22:50 what's up? 08:22:53 hmm 08:23:01 oh 08:23:05 ehu`: you forgot the : 08:23:10 minion: memo ... 08:23:11 Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 23 seconds is too many. 08:23:37 sykopomp: I added that in another channel. 08:23:54 I thought the different tries might not be appreciated. 08:24:13 indeed, and here I am spamming. :\ 08:28:50 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:29:07 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:29:07 Under what circumstances would a let block be evaluated before a format that comes before it? Adding a newline to the end of the format string prevents this, but I don't want that newline. 08:31:00 iaindalton pasted "let runs early" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88781 08:35:43 clhs finish-output 08:35:43 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:35:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm 08:35:52 iaindalton 08:36:12 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:37:04 galdor [n=galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:28 Thanks, sykopomp. That did it. It's like fflush, right? 08:38:40 I don't know what fflush is. 08:39:10 but things are running in the order they're supposed to. It just happens that the output stream won't necessarily have actually output anything by the time you request input. 08:39:36 Alright. 08:39:36 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:39:48 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:40:34 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 08:41:13 -!- galdor [n=galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:41:16 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229080066.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:41:37 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:41:52 iaindalton: yes, finish-output is like fflush 08:41:57 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:43:39 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 08:43:39 -!- kpreid___ [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:44:58 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 08:46:16 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 08:48:12 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:48:13 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:50:34 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:55:51 addled [n=adl@77.208.182.228] has joined #lisp 09:00:51 -!- addled [n=adl@77.208.182.228] has quit [Client Quit] 09:02:14 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:02:39 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:12:27 galdor [n=galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:52 -!- iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1"] 09:17:08 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-238.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:17:21 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-238.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:06 -!- dwh [n=dwh@ppp118-209-191-133.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:27:07 -!- lghtng [n=quassel@pdpc/supporter/active/lghtng] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:32:15 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:32:47 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:33:19 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:34:14 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:39 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:36:50 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 09:41:29 Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:09 faux [n=user@82.182.78.98] has joined #lisp 09:47:35 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0598.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:53:34 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp067.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:53:35 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:53:57 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:57:13 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 10:00:27 HG` [n=HG@85.8.91.181] has joined #lisp 10:03:16 -!- HG` [n=HG@85.8.91.181] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:04:40 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 10:06:46 giruga12 [n=giruga12@h26n2fls32o895.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:08:20 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:08:32 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:08:41 milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.223] has joined #lisp 10:09:28 -!- pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:13:15 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:13:44 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:13:50 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:18:32 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:19:34 benny [n=benny@i577A0598.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:20:35 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 10:24:24 Good morning! 10:25:12 good morning, vietnam! 10:25:19 (or is it France today?) 10:26:41 Still France. 10:26:58 good morning :) 10:27:10 jmbr [n=jmbr@95.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:28:43 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:29:54 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 10:29:54 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:31:20 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:42:53 -!- didi [n=user@189-68-52-251.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:43:12 mnl [n=mnl@pD9E6D41B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:36 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@95.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:46:41 -!- giruga12 [n=giruga12@h26n2fls32o895.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:46:56 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:47:27 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 10:49:58 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:49:59 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:50:27 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:54:34 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 10:59:07 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 11:02:46 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:03:03 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:03:47 nha [n=prefect@85.4.174.31] has joined #lisp 11:06:17 -!- Tril [n=tril@bespin.org] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:06:51 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [No route to host] 11:07:28 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:07:32 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.220.32.95] has joined #lisp 11:07:44 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:08:37 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 11:08:41 mishoo [n=mishoo@86.124.79.72] has joined #lisp 11:08:59 hi folks 11:09:10 is there a way to restart the current iteration in a (loop)? 11:09:30 (I mean, without incrementing the iterator) 11:09:33 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:09:42 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:09:44 what do you mean by that? 11:10:09 giruga12 [n=giruga12@h26n2fls32o895.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:10:47 loops don't necessarily have loop variables. 11:11:22 something like (loop for i from 1 to 5 when (some condition) :do (progn (something) (redo-with-current-value-of-i))) 11:11:50 beach: I know it doesn't necessary have vars 11:12:05 just interested if I can skip the incrementation step in certain cases 11:12:14 mishoo: You can decrement the loop variable. 11:12:38 beach: yes, but my case is actually (loop for i on list), which works by #'cdr 11:12:58 not sure how I can move backward 11:12:58 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:12:58 push something on the list 11:13:09 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:13:32 But you are probably better off doing that "manually". 11:13:36 yeah 11:14:09 why not just wrap the body in a normal handler and do a restart etc.? 11:16:05 (loop for element = (car list) until (null list) do ... (when ... (pop list))) 11:16:05 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:16:15 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:17:21 clog [n=nef@66.114.33.57] has joined #lisp 11:17:51 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 11:23:02 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:23:02 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:23:03 -!- kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:23:21 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:24:42 lnostdal: aye, something along those lines.. I used a tagbody. 11:24:43 thanks 11:25:27 yeah, i think i use tagbody for this too .. for a 'retry' macro .. i can paste it 11:26:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/88787 11:26:49 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:57 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:28:05 that's interesting 11:28:14 -!- galdor [n=galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:28:26 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:28:49 galdor [n=galdor@88.162.192.107] has joined #lisp 11:28:55 the block is there since tagbody only returns NIL .. iirc 11:29:14 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:29:17 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust936.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 11:29:20 greetings 11:29:30 wonder if it handles multiple values .. hohum 11:29:35 hey fusss 11:29:46 hey lnostdal :-) 11:30:20 -!- clog [n=nef@66.114.33.57] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:30:29 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:31:29 *fusss* is currently enjoy the vector-spare model of text documents. nothing like taking the vector "cosine" of two "documents" to see if there is a match 11:31:55 there is another world beyond grep and regexes .. 11:32:49 Vector space? 11:32:49 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:32:54 with what are you doing this, fusss? 11:33:02 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:33:07 hashtables and vectors 11:33:27 well, okay, and then? :-) 11:33:29 pretty much reducing a pages of text to a real matrix :-) 11:33:36 tic: oh, just for fun 11:33:37 ze formula 11:33:58 no, I meant, /how/ are you doing this? I did something similar to this way back as a project in school. I'm curious on how you're doing it! 11:34:13 various; for now i am taking a "term" to be an individual word; i am not doing phrase indexing yet .. 11:34:17 s/on/about/ 11:34:35 oh 11:34:58 i am shooting in the dark still tic 11:35:16 what i have so far indexing the document by word 11:35:33 (incf (gethash word *word-table* 0)) as a first step 11:35:34 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:35:59 when i have multiple documents indexed 11:36:08 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:36:17 i copied a 'vector cosine' algorithm from Numerical Computing in C 11:36:50 so far i am more impressed with the world of linear algebra with "text" than actual results :-) 11:37:22 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:22 don't tell me how you did it though! 11:38:08 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:38:39 how I did what I did? Oh, we didn't get much further than what you're doing now. Still yields impressive results, as you've noticed. 11:38:48 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:39:22 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-129-134.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 11:40:01 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:40:10 djinni` [n=djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:51 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 11:40:51 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:40:53 -!- galdor [n=galdor@88.162.192.107] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 11:41:23 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 11:41:28 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 11:42:42 teasers http://www.miislita.com/term-vector/term-vector-3.html 11:43:15 galdor [n=galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:21 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:44:39 neat. 11:48:24 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:52:14 tic: once you get over the pattern-recognitiony lingo and terminology, it's all straightforward real analysis 11:56:56 fusss, I like the lingo. .-) 11:57:09 Have you read Pattern Recognition, by the way? :-) 11:57:27 (also, have code to share later? would like to take a quick glance if you don't mind.) 11:57:28 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:57:56 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:59:54 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:00:04 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:00:39 -!- holly_ [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [No route to host] 12:01:12 holly_ [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:02:41 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-60-163.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:05:19 Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:33 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:06:47 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:07:51 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:08:13 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:09:24 Odin- [n=sbkhh@193.109.18.92] has joined #lisp 12:09:49 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:11:07 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:11:42 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:13:12 dacoda [n=user@dkicomp.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 12:14:38 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@dsl-65-219-213-82.taconic.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:15:09 -!- ol3````` [n=user@82.113.121.158] has left #lisp 12:15:33 billstclair [n=billstcl@dsl-65-219-213-82.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 kpreid___ [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:17:46 demmel [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-070-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:37 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 12:20:41 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 12:20:41 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:21:26 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:21:27 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 12:23:18 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:23:26 -!- dacoda [n=user@dkicomp.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.0.2 $Revision: 1.726.2.11 $ (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:30:20 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-157-23-181.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:56 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:30:57 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:31:16 i'm trying to install CFFI, but it has a permission denied error on swank-loader.fasl, would be safe to ignore 12:31:24 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:31:36 i think i will regret placing slime in a protected folder 12:32:20 use asdf-binary-locations 12:33:35 i'll have a look at that stassats, cheers 12:33:35 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 12:35:46 tic: yes, will leave you a memo with minion when i have more than half a page 12:35:54 fusss, thanks! 12:36:36 which "Pattern Recognition" book? the gibson book or the non-fic ones? 12:36:56 hhh well it works, took a reinstall and lots of tinkering but now i have the lispbuilder-sdl examples working, SBCL seems to work 12:37:27 the Gibson one. 12:37:42 think it builds on Idoru. (Which I've yet to finish...) 12:37:42 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:38:10 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:39:39 funky, who'd have thought it, you can use lisp to make real apps, hehe 12:40:02 what kind of real apps are you making? 12:40:04 (with sdl) 12:40:39 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E01E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:42 tic well real is a stretch 12:42:19 a graphical app, a game, but before you deride it the game is not the real motivation, it's for an AI project 12:43:15 but people like to see pretty pictures even in uni projects, i was going to do it just as text, but when i thought about it i felt i need a proper GUI 12:43:45 You could put puppy dogs and kittens in it. 12:43:48 well, that's certainly a real app. 12:44:18 Or maybe baby seals and narwhals. 12:44:19 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 12:44:38 oh, snorway. 12:44:43 i'm pleased i have input and graphics capabilities, and a great language 12:44:44 egoz [i=egoz@114.59.178.105] has joined #lisp 12:45:37 I tried the non-lispbuilder-sdl, and it was less pleasant than what I've understood lispbuilder-sdl to be from the tutorial. 12:45:38 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:46:06 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:46:22 -!- kpreid___ [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Client Quit] 12:47:45 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 12:48:45 dacoda [n=user@clientssh2.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 12:49:01 -!- dacoda [n=user@clientssh2.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:49:40 tic i had some trouble with my initial setup, input crashed everything app and lisp 12:49:52 mhm, what did you do to fix it? 12:50:36 well too much to really know exactly what it was, i installed the newest emacs slime, and changed to SBCL 12:50:48 i suspect it was probably SBCL that fixed it 12:51:01 doubt emacs and slime could cause issues, not sure though 12:51:26 i'd blame slime 12:51:36 i was using clisp before, it should work with that though 12:51:48 stassats can it cause issues like that 12:51:48 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:52:09 took me about 2-3hours to get the new version working 12:52:11 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:52:16 inexperience mainly though 12:52:19 it could, yeah 12:52:54 i stop using the debian version and installed it all by hand as well 12:53:17 which was longer but i think it might sensible in the long run 12:53:36 right 12:53:44 there's also clbuild 12:54:14 Guthur: which gui toolkit are you using? 12:55:07 gtk 12:55:22 leo2007 you mean for emacs 12:55:23 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:55:30 leo2007 or my app 12:55:36 for your lisp app 12:56:11 leo2007 sorry i had trouble with the emacs so it was in the forefront of my mind hehe, lispbuilder-sdl 12:57:00 leo2007, only ran the demos so far but they seem to provide all that is necessary, able to learn by example as well 12:57:34 Guthur: thanks 12:59:20 Fufie [n=innocent@80.203.225.86] has joined #lisp 13:00:14 drago` [n=user@82.113.121.158] has joined #lisp 13:01:59 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:02:05 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.180.3] has joined #lisp 13:04:43 egozegoz [i=egoz@114.58.114.176] has joined #lisp 13:04:51 leo2007 it does appear to be only 2D, in case you were hoping for 3D 13:05:30 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:21 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:09:49 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:14:50 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@86.124.79.72] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:14:50 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:16:41 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:25 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:20:24 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.52.167] has joined #lisp 13:23:36 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.52.167] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:26:00 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:26:01 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:26:32 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:26:40 -!- egoz [i=egoz@114.59.178.105] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:28:40 Has the recent finding lisp blog posting been ridiculed here already? 13:28:41 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:28:41 tcr, memo from ehu`: are you going to commit your ansi-test contributions yourself 13:29:03 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@12.155.31.10] has joined #lisp 13:29:10 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:29:39 minion: memo for ehu`: Please feel free comitting them yourself. I'm sick, and my head is too full with other stuff already. 13:29:42 Remembered. I'll tell ehu` when he/she/it next speaks. 13:31:50 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-123-94.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:32:47 Guthur: thanks. I was just curious about the gui ;) 13:33:37 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:36:24 -!- egozegoz [i=egoz@114.58.114.176] has quit [] 13:37:24 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.54.192] has joined #lisp 13:37:51 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:38:28 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 13:38:50 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:39:57 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:40:11 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 13:40:15 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:41:08 I wonder, how many people use LRET.. 13:41:41 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-104-232.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:41:45 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-73-155.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:35 tcr, is it worth of a ridicule? 13:43:11 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:43:30 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:44:28 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:44:54 It's just stupid? 13:46:58 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:47:22 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:47:27 KingNato [n=patno@84-217-6-231.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:44 -!- KingNato [n=patno@84-217-6-231.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:47 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:50:00 ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has joined #lisp 13:50:03 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:50:26 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:55:16 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-56-101.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:00 -!- emacs-dwim [n=user@cpe-74-71-11-230.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:58:01 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:58:14 ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has joined #lisp 14:01:53 LiamH: Hi, I have a question regarding fsbv. ffi.h is not installed in the "usual" place (stupid libffi), so I need pkgconfig to get at it to compile fsbv. Any hints on how to do this elegantly? 14:04:18 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:04:41 Sikander: That's an enduring problem. Are you on Mac OS X? 14:04:58 LiamH: no, gentoo... *ducks* 14:05:14 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.160.122] has joined #lisp 14:06:18 Not that I need to use complex scalars or simulated annealing now, but I thought, hey, let's install gsll with full options 14:06:23 It's OK, it's just I've heard a lot from OSX users about this because apparently there are several different "standard" places to put libraries in OS X. 14:06:53 anyone has the cll 600mb archive ? 14:07:04 kind of curious what ppl use to browse it 14:07:04 Apparently libffi prefers to install headers in /usr/lib somewhere. Gentoo sees it as an upstream problem, which, of course, it is 14:07:09 apart from less/grep ;p 14:07:25 Sikander: Hold on, I'l find out. 14:08:16 LiamH: there is /usr/local same as in linux 14:08:29 anything else is up to you to manage 14:08:31 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:35 Sikander: Look at the top of libffi-unix.lisp and notice how #+darwin is conditionalized. 14:08:43 Just add what you need for the path. 14:08:59 xristos: Yes, and /opt, and /usr/lib just like linux. 14:09:35 That's the problem, it can go in one of several places. Since I don't have osx, I don't know all the places, and each user only knows about the one he has. 14:09:37 /opt doesn't exist unless you create it 14:09:52 It gets created for mac ports, apparently. 14:10:44 /usr/lib is for system libraries 14:10:45 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:10:48 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 14:10:49 i wouldn't put anything there 14:10:56 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:11:07 You may not, but Apple does. One of my osx users found libffi there. 14:11:21 -I/usr/lib64/libffi-3.0.8/include That's where ffi.h is hiding 14:11:58 Sikander: Ok, put that in a cc-flags form, you should be good. 14:12:10 This is apparently what the package does. The gentoo ebuild does _not_ move it because they see it as an upstream issue that shoud be fixed 14:12:47 But it looks like you're going to get in trouble once the package is upgraded; when 3.0.9 comes around, you'll be stuck. 14:12:49 LiamH: Yeah, thanks, I understand. Would be nice, though if it's possible to call pkgconfig from libffi-unix.lisp and get it "right" for ever. 14:12:57 Why? 14:13:21 -I/usr/lib64/libffi->>>>>3.0.8<<<< I'll just have to update the lisp file again... 14:13:35 Yes, but I find that annoying personally. 14:13:37 Which is why I suggested to somehow use the output of pkgconfgi... 14:13:44 config 14:13:56 Annoying? It's ridiculous! 14:14:10 I don't know about pkgconfig, but perhaps one of the CFFI-grovel guys can offer a suggestion. 14:14:13 Who in their right mind installs headers in lib?! 14:14:26 -!- drago` [n=user@82.113.121.158] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:14:31 agreed, but that's the way it is 14:14:37 drago` [n=user@82.113.121.158] has joined #lisp 14:14:50 Ok, for now I'll do as you suggest. But I'll see if this can be fixed somehow 14:15:22 Another question. no fourier implemented yet: why? Is it just a time issue, or was there a fundamental issue there? 14:15:38 Sikander: I would love to have a universal solution, so everyone can install in peace. But this must have come up for other library users of cffi-grovel, and so far I don't see that it's been addressed. 14:16:58 Sikander: Time, now. Originally there were two reasons: in the first iteration, I didn't have complex arrays, and there were no examples that I knew of in C so it was hard for me to copy an example. So I put it off. In the meantime, both those problems have been solved, now it's a matter of time. 14:17:06 Contributions welcome :-) 14:17:12 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-207-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:31 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 14:17:34 IMHO The problem is that there are too many "package" things. You have the package manager of your distro, then you have pkgconfig, and then there are also packages for lisp. All this package stuff should be able to work together 14:17:42 dreish [n=dreish@207.138.47.173] has joined #lisp 14:17:53 Sikander: BTW, you should join the GSLL mailing list. 14:17:54 -!- demmel [n=Adium@dslb-094-216-070-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:18:06 If you haven't already. 14:18:13 LiamH: Ok, so there are no fundamental issues; I can just put it all together to get Fourier working and maybe submit a patch 14:18:14 I'll join 14:18:30 benny` [n=benny@i577A1ACC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:18:37 I've FFT'd often in gsl, so I guess I can test some stuff with gsll. 14:19:27 Sikander: Great! (to both joining at FFT). I like to see "use cases" so if you can post some of your successes that would be great. 14:19:27 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:19:52 I'm currently using malcolm reynolds' branch. I saw he recently implemented slices. Gotta play with those. 14:20:03 Sikander: re package issues, I agree, but there's not much we can do about it. 14:20:03 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:20:30 What to do about it?! We should kick ass and chew bubblegum! 14:20:42 I'll do the chewing part 14:20:49 Now to find someone willing to kick ass... 14:20:53 Sikander: Right, I'm folding those ideas in. After Thursday's conversation, it spurred me to commit what I had along those lines; it's in linear-algebra/matrix-generation.lisp. 14:21:31 LiamH: will you merge the branches at some time? 14:21:54 LiamH: or is Malcolm Reynolds deviating too far from where you are going with gsll? 14:22:00 Sikander: Malcolm's? Yes, it will take some time. 14:22:08 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 14:22:16 There's thought that needs to go into it, because there are other ideas I'm folding in as well. 14:22:33 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.54.192] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:22:41 This all requires time, and today I'm supposed to be grading exams, but I'll chip away it some more. 14:23:17 TDT [n=dthole@dhcpw80ff93ae.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 14:23:27 -!- TDT [n=dthole@dhcpw80ff93ae.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 14:23:31 No Malcolm is on track, and my colleague is on track, and I'm merging them and generalizing them in (I hope) a sensible way. 14:23:32 Ah, yes, time. The eternal issue of open-source devels. 14:23:47 Great to hear 14:24:10 That's why if you wanted to pursue FFT I'll welcome it! 14:24:42 Sikander: you use gentoo ? 14:24:44 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0598.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:24:52 Also, though I'm not usually an FFT user, I'm interested in a compatible interface with fftw as well. 14:25:09 fe[nl]ix: yes 14:25:15 because apparently that's what serious fft users use, not GSL's 14:25:44 LiamH: Yes, I've used both, depending on what was available on machines 14:26:04 fe[nl]ix: why? 14:26:12 I think somebody had a CL interface to fftw, so that would be a starting point. 14:26:38 Sikander: then use the lisp overlay 14:27:31 fe[nl]ix: I am using the overlay. But I prefer to use clbuild. I don't like the people that maintain the overlay; my contributions were... less welcome... 14:27:57 less welcome ? how so ? 14:28:15 I think we've discussed this before in gentoo-lisp 14:28:48 fe[nl]ix: I have a question about your static vectors. Can they supersede the vector-sap and with-pinned-objects of SBCL? That's what I do now in GSLL for SBCL only, everybody else will copy between the C and CL side. 14:28:49 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 14:28:54 besides, clbuild works fine, always up-to-date stuff 14:29:29 Sikander: funny you should mention clbuild, I'm trying to transition to it now and there are gaps in my understanding. 14:29:53 minion: clbuild? 14:29:54 clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 14:30:04 For example, is it possible to dumpcore more than one project into a monster.core? There doesn't seem to be. 14:31:20 LiamH: yes, with one (obvious) caveat: users of GSLL will have make sure that they only pass GSLL static vectors 14:31:46 Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:46 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:32:03 TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has joined #lisp 14:32:14 Yeah, I also didn't find a way to make a monster.core 14:32:28 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 14:32:32 does the monster.core have tentacles? 14:32:33 Fare, memo from Adlai: http://paste.lisp.org/display/88765#2 14:32:34 Fare, memo from wgl: Have you had any testers for XCVB for CCL? 14:33:02 What I do is use clbuild to get projects and keep them up-to-date, but then go into sbcl to make cores 14:33:06 fe[nl]ix: Excellent; the caveat is not a problem because that should be all wrapped up for them. Is/will this incorporated into cffi? I noticed the SBCL piece is currently a paste. 14:33:15 so make them manually, on the repl 14:33:41 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-60-163.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 14:33:50 Sikander: OK, that's what I was starting to do. But I didn't know where to put it so it would be loaded up by clbuild when dumpcore didn't make it. 14:33:57 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust936.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1"] 14:34:10 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:34:30 -!- benny` is now known as benny 14:34:48 LiamH: also, only specialized simple-arrays can be allocated in static memory(no multidimensional arrays) 14:35:30 fe[nl]ix: but I can use the foreign-friendly arrays trick of displacing to a linear array, right? 14:35:47 LiamH: luis said he prefers having this in a separate library 14:36:10 I suppose so 14:36:10 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:36:41 fe[nl]ix: so you will make a separate library out of this? (hint) 14:36:46 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:36:46 yes 14:36:48 heh, I'm starting to already get nervous about my lisp presentation in 3 weeks. 14:36:59 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.245.161] has joined #lisp 14:37:16 fe[nl]ix: thanks, I'm very interested, if you could let me know when it's available 14:37:45 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:37:48 ok 14:39:34 LiamH: Well, I don't have a black belt in clbuild either yet. but with dumpcore, you can just list multiple packages on the commandline. 14:39:49 I mean multiple packages 14:39:50 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.54.192] has joined #lisp 14:40:05 clbuild dumpcore foo bar foobar 14:40:25 LiamH: it works 14:40:29 Thanks. 14:40:35 Doh, multiple projects, not packages, dammit 14:41:01 Sikander: Well that's good anyway, but I also want to add my own configuration forms. 14:41:27 LiamH: yeah, so that's what I do manually. 14:41:40 LiamH: Did you find a way to add applications, to run directly from clbuild? 14:41:46 I do things like add iterate and then use-package it in cl-user. 14:41:56 (aside from doing a run any ...) 14:42:02 Sikander: no, I haven't. 14:42:29 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 14:42:33 I find the clbuild documentation a bit thin. Not that I should complain, given the state of GSLL's documentation. 14:43:11 It is thin indeed. --long-help but mostly reading the source helps :) 14:43:27 LiamH: do you have a 64bit machine ? 14:43:31 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:49 fe[nl]ix: yes 14:44:16 four of them are, I have one 32 bit as well. 14:44:44 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:45:13 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.223] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:45:27 Sikander: yes, I've taken to reading the source too 14:45:27 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:45:52 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:46:31 triyo [n=triyo@dsl-245-191-206.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:47:21 Anyone know if there is a Common Lisp reference that I could read on iPhone? Using maybe app like stanza... 14:50:12 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 14:50:14 LiamH: could you test the code in that paste ? 14:50:38 LiamH: I'm only certain it works on x86 14:50:58 fe[nl]ix: for SBCL? 14:51:02 yes 14:51:50 what would you suggest as a test? 14:52:01 other than compile/load 14:52:55 LiamH: make an array and read/write to it 14:53:09 fe[nl]ix: If allocation is aligned to 2 words, and you're using SB-VM constants for tags and shifting, I don't see what portability problem there could be. 14:53:35 LiamH: if the code is buggy, your image will get corrupted pretty quickly(under 10 seconds here usually) 14:54:30 Ok, thanks for the warning, I'll start a new SBCL instance. 14:54:30 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:54:49 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.242.197] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:54:58 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:55:43 fe[nl]ix: I think you could trigger bugs with allocations that aren't rounded up to 2 words. 14:56:06 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 14:56:48 Do I need to load file(s) other than the paste? If so, where are they? 14:56:59 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-177-77-150.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:57:04 LiamH: no, just cffi 14:57:12 hmm 14:57:34 debugger invoked on a UNDEFINED-FUNCTION in thread #: 14:57:34 The function FOREIGN-ALLOC is undefined. 14:57:51 I maybe need to use-package cffi then 14:58:14 Or in-package 15:01:18 Now I get The function FILL-FOREIGN-MEMORY is undefined. 15:01:19 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:01:35 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:04:35 BrianRice: Happy Birthday. 15:05:36 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:07:32 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:08:10 -!- TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:08:31 TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:24 fe[nl]ix annotated #79633 "include fill-foreign-memory" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79633#9 15:11:02 wtf? all #\" got replaced with " 15:12:11 yeah, weird, but no worries, C-M-% will take care of it 15:12:38 fe[nl]ix pasted "make-static-vector" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88794 15:12:51 ooh there's & too 15:13:37 I annotated the paste via lisppaste.el 15:13:48 fe[nl]ix: %allocation-size should round up so that the end of the vector is 2-word aligned too. If there isn't already some code that uses that assumption, there should be in the coming months. 15:14:15 sbcl build question: I'm compiling it with ABCL (as a proof-of-quality), but the build-process complains about not being able to find "obj/from-host/src/compiler/macros.lisp" 15:14:26 is that a known issue with cross compilation? 15:14:30 where should I start looking? 15:15:27 ah. found more on it. sorry. 15:15:48 oudeis [n=oudeis@CBL217-132-207-92.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 15:16:46 tcr, the last one, or the last one^1? 15:17:09 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:17:10 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:17:43 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:44 ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has joined #lisp 15:17:45 tcr, the last one^1 has a point, IMO -- test frameworks should be opt-in. 15:17:57 How do I annotate the paste? 15:18:31 LiamH, there should be a button in the bottom of paste's page. 15:18:44 deepfire: that's what I expected, but I don't see it 15:19:05 *deepfire* was careful enough to say 'should be' :-) 15:19:18 LiamH: you mean paste 79633 ? 15:19:27 yeah 15:19:33 -!- triyo [n=triyo@dsl-245-191-206.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [] 15:19:44 Paste limit of 10? 15:19:48 I've annotated before on other pastes. 15:20:14 It's only up to 8 15:20:19 deepfire: If he doesn't want to install the unit- tests, uh, well he shouldn't. He actually wants to complain about asdf-install, but then preposterously complaints at the open source library writing community 15:20:22 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:21:17 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:21:20 Anyway, I can (defparameter *sv* (make-static-vector 4)), but when I try to set a value (setf (aref *sv* 0) 3) I get an error. 15:21:21 deepfire: And what's his objection? .sbcl/systems/ contains a few more symlinks than he thought it was necessary? 15:21:25 LiamH: apparently pastes can only be annotated within a few weeks of their creation 15:21:28 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:21:59 debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-TYPE-ERROR in thread #: 15:21:59 invalid index 0 in #() 15:22:23 LiamH: please annotate #88794 15:22:47 fe[nl]ix: :long not :int in mem-aref. 15:23:17 int is 32bit even on x86_64 ? 15:23:22 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:24:02 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:24:07 fe[nl]ix: x86_64 is LP64 (LLP64 even) everywhere but maybe win64. 15:24:34 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:25:25 tcr, well, I guess unnecessary dependencies add fragility, at least theoretically, and may (not sure if this is the case for these test frameworks) bring dependencies of their own.. 15:25:39 pkhuong: thanks 15:26:22 fe[nl]ix: %allocation-size will die much more mysteriously... Round that size up! 15:26:23 which reminds me that cffi needs :word 15:26:24 LiamH annotated #88794 "Error: invalid index 0" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88794#1 15:26:53 my mistake on trying to annotate the wrong paste before 15:26:54 tcr, from a user standpoint there is a nit to pick, whereas from a 'need to accomplish' developer standpoint that's a trivial issue not worth mentioning.. 15:27:12 tcr, so I think it's cultural :-) 15:27:17 fe[nl]ix: you also forgot to fill the last element in string types with a #\Nul when you get a different initial element. 15:29:00 It's probably a good idea to go through FFI for large FILLs when possible and to allow the user to ask for no initialisation at all. 15:29:00 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:29:11 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:30:18 fe[nl]ix: race condition in with-static-vector ;) the window is smaller if you (setf var ...) inside the uwp. 15:31:11 tcr, maybe the way he worded it.. yes, a bit too strong for nitpicking. 15:31:15 finally, I think you want the compiler macro for make-static-vector to wrap the result in a truly-the when you can. 15:31:33 wow, thanks 15:32:26 tcr, maybe he was in bad mood or something.. I guess his karma is good enough it can be forgiven, if I may say so.. 15:33:31 Dunno about his karma. Has he written anything valuable? 15:33:33 I have to agree with the sentiment. I didn't find the wording excessive either, but that might be because I don't release asdf'ed software. 15:34:01 kenpp [n=kenpp@188-221-10-184.zone12.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:34:58 deepfire: I think it'd be a good idea for CFFI (and other essential infrastructure) to have a single-tarball system with all the dependencies included. 15:35:02 pkhuong: I'm wondering about whether it'd help efficiency if make-list tried to allocate a large blob of memory so conses lay next to each other 15:35:18 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:35:55 tcr: it would... But you'd need to make sure the page doesn't get scavenged during GC, and that the allocation doesn't go in a large page. 15:36:14 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:36:35 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:36:47 Plus, they already are next to each other (mostly). 15:37:06 ...and then implement other functions basing on make-list + replace; e.g. reverse could (optimistically) allocate in chunks 15:37:38 Well, I thought it'd put less pressure on the allocation machinery? 15:37:44 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:37:53 the inner loop would be much tighter 15:38:06 and that too 15:38:34 The pointer bump itself isn't that expensive... 15:38:53 yeah it's the cache miss on fetch? 15:39:49 doubt that one ever misses. It's just that the allocation sequence is a many more instructions than no sequence at all. 15:39:50 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:40:19 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:40:21 oh well that's what I meant with less pressure, I think 15:40:38 rwiker [n=rwiker@73.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:44 I think the sequence functions should have been specified to take a :length argument as well 15:43:44 tcr: I've got an ugly hack coming up, warning (: 15:43:50 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.34] has joined #lisp 15:44:11 that guy's point about dependencies in cffi would be valid if he had to manage them himself, but since he doesn't it doesn't make any sense 15:44:25 pkhuong: and I'm writin' some pseudo-code to get your opinion about 15:44:45 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 15:44:59 deepfire: who is this about ? 15:45:34 fe[nl]ix: planet.lisp 15:46:05 hefner [n=hefner@61.90.102.44] has joined #lisp 15:49:47 "But if they passed for you, they'll also pass for me." ??? 15:55:16 pkhuong: how can there be a race condition ? 15:56:07 -!- galdor [n=galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:56:25 fe[nl]ix: memory is allocated before the uwp handler is set up, you get some interruption and leak resources. 15:57:32 There's no simple solution, but at least by setting the handler before allocating memory the window is that much smaller; you could probably wrap the allocation and setf in a without-interrupts. 15:57:38 tcr pasted "my-search" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88795 15:58:02 pkhuong: Can you decipher that, or do you think that's too obtuse? 15:58:32 Nshag [i=user@193.248.206.63] has joined #lisp 15:58:42 (except for the missing KEY in the (funcall e2) in (flet compare) 16:00:49 It's clear what you're doing, but there's a lot of non-problem-specific noise. 16:00:50 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:01:28 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:01:52 well the point is that when :from-end is t you don't want to make a new iterator because that would internally cons up a new, reversed list 16:02:10 iterator copies can share that reversed list of ptrs into the original list, though 16:02:22 fe[nl]ix, Dave Roberts, aka finding lisp, and his recent asdf-install-related post on the planet 16:02:48 fe[nl]ix annotated #88794 "fixes" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88794#2 16:03:26 pkhuong: should I also wrap free-s-v in without-interrupts ? 16:04:37 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:05:13 fe[nl]ix: You can try and patch more and more stuff, but I don't really grok signals. nikodemus, nyef or mega1 would be more helpful. 16:05:13 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:05:32 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:06:55 male_terran [n=terran@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:03 fe[nl]ix: you allocate half as much memory as needed in %allocation-size (: 16:07:15 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:07:49 alodar [n=alodar@cpe-74-79-6-97.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:52 -!- male_terran [n=terran@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:10:22 fe[nl]ix: still missing the #\Null padding on strings in %allocate-static-vector. 16:10:22 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:10:38 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:11:00 no, because there's a prior fill-foreign-memory 16:11:07 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:11:21 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:11:31 but, I shouldn't fill the vector twice :) 16:11:34 with-static-vector captures VAR and doesn't play nice with types. Something like (let (([gensym] nil)) (u-w-p (let ((,var (sb-sys:w/o-int (setf [gensym]) ...))) ...))) 16:11:38 -!- lukjad007 is now known as monumental 16:12:07 fe[nl]ix: oh right, you pass the unpadded length. 16:12:44 Right, filling twice is lossy but less so. 16:13:40 I think there's meant to be an interrupt-safe sequence of without-interrupts, allow-with-interrupts, allow-without-interrupts, with-interrupts 16:13:50 but this channel and my brain are both too small to contain it 16:13:53 -!- teilzeitstudent_ [n=teilzeit@p579152E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:13:57 -!- monumental is now known as lukjad007 16:14:29 teilzeitstudent_ [n=teilzeit@87.145.95.35] has joined #lisp 16:17:12 aanand [n=user@59.164.100.216] has joined #lisp 16:17:40 phoenixi [n=tuomosa@a85-156-197-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 16:18:25 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:18:42 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:19:30 can someone explain to me the difference between array rank and dimension? 16:19:35 -!- lukjad007 is now known as monstermash 16:19:39 what am i looking at? 16:20:09 pkhuong: Any other comment? Do you think it's valuable to provide do-seq-it and copy-seq-it? 16:20:18 array-rank is how many dimensions it has 16:20:28 array rank means the number of dimensions it could have? (make-array '(2 2 2)) == rank 3? 16:20:43 yes Krystof 16:20:44 yes 16:20:44 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:20:49 fusss: why don't you ask the REPL? 16:20:53 tcr: copy-seq-it would be? 16:21:14 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:21:20 pkhuong: array-rank-limit < array-dimension-limit, but then there is array-total-size-limit 16:21:30 pkhuong: copy-sequence-iterator 16:21:51 tcr: probably a good idea. 16:22:15 I did receive a comment about my sequence paper, incidentally, a long time ago 16:22:41 -!- monstermash is now known as monztermash 16:22:42 the comment said that it might be valuable to have a class hierarchy to indicate which things support which operations 16:23:05 pointing at the STL as an example of good design in that respect 16:23:05 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:23:23 ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has joined #lisp 16:23:34 if you're doing just sequence iterators, then you probably don't need to think about it too much 16:23:58 Krystof: Could you take a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88795 too and tell me your opinion about it? (The iterators are copied in the inner-loop and not created anew because making a list iterator when :from-end being t means that a reversed list is consed up; iterator copies can internally share that list so it doesn't need to be allocated each time.) 16:24:10 (but even thinking about whether a user can opt out of the :from-end protocol might be worthwhile 16:24:15 I'd look at alexandrescu's ranges rather, 16:25:12 The function as pasted does not exactly implement what the clhs wants (it returns the wrong position) 16:25:20 but that's not exactly the point 16:26:18 tcr: also, you're allowed to search forwards even if :from-end is true 16:26:28 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.253.14] has joined #lisp 16:26:37 Yes I know and that may in fact be the more reasonable implementation 16:27:22 -!- alodar [n=alodar@cpe-74-79-6-97.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:31:15 Hmm, can SBCL cope with (ftype (function (...) (values (function (...) (values (function (...) (values ...)))))) foo) ? I.e. a function that returns a function which produces a function 16:31:15 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:31:36 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:31:37 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.216.238] has joined #lisp 16:32:43 fe[nl]ix annotated #88794 "fix padding and w-s-v" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88794#3 16:35:19 Sikander: pkg-config --cflags-only-I libffi returns nothing on my Debian installation. 16:35:28 -!- sepi [n=enigma@hcl-club.lu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:36:57 pkhuong pasted "Chunked list allocation" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88798 16:38:13 -!- monztermash is now known as lukjad007 16:39:26 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.245.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:41:54 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 16:46:32 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 16:46:56 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:47:08 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.160.122] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:47:13 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:47:32 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.160.122] has joined #lisp 16:50:28 pkhuong: will that work on 32bit, too? 16:51:08 blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:11 tcr: s/64/32/ in a couple places 16:51:38 and the gc will barf if you use that to allocate large lists (> couple hundred elements) 16:53:41 seems to work fine for n = 1,000,000 16:53:49 and is actually faster than make-list for me here 16:53:51 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:53:57 100 iterators, by 2 secs 16:54:00 iterations 16:54:23 ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has joined #lisp 16:54:37 tcr: ah right.. more than than a couple hundred thousand conses won't be good. 16:55:01 The vector will be allocated in a large object page, and the GC expects there's exactly one object on such pages. 16:55:48 it's slower on small lists though 16:56:17 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-92-210.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Success] 17:00:46 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0681.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:03:33 Doesn't seem to have any effect on (let ((list (make-list n :initial-element 1))) (time (loop for i in list sum i))) 17:04:19 tcr: make-list still allocates linearly; the only difference is that the stride is backward. 17:04:55 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:04:55 I mean comparing fast-make-list and make-list in that situation, and actually it does seem to have an effect 17:04:56 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:04:58 and any GC will copy that so that the stride is forward... 17:05:39 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:06:17 tcr: any difference there should be negligible on non-antiquated x86, and will disappear after a GC. 17:06:41 I non-deterministically get an error that 0 is not a list on (let ((list (fast-make-list 10000000 2))) (sb-ext:gc :full t) (time (dotimes (i 100) (loop for i in list sum i)))) 17:06:57 galdor [n=galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:16 whois schme 17:07:26 err :) 17:07:34 tcr: too large a list, the vector gets its own large object page, GC notices the shrinkage, and you end up pointing nowhere. 17:08:02 Can't use the trick for chunks of more than a couple 100K conses. 17:08:20 -!- billitch [n=billitch@78.236.153.65] has quit [] 17:09:00 rsynnott1 [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 17:09:34 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 17:09:58 bummer 17:10:53 You can still use the trick for chunks of ~500k-1M conses. 17:11:12 pass/return pointers to both the head and the tail of the chunk. 17:12:10 mishoo: what? 17:12:44 schme: nothing, sorry, I was looking for someone and your nick got TAB-completed and I forgot the starting slash :) 17:12:54 :( 17:13:00 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:13:22 I'll go make some pancakes then. 17:16:25 -!- h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:16:40 -!- rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:17:08 *mishoo* thinks ..oO( definitely better than chatting with me right now :-) bon appétit ) 17:22:58 Dawgmatix_ [n=Dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:10 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 17:26:48 -!- rwiker [n=rwiker@73.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:26:48 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:27:24 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:29:27 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-32-162.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:30:55 -!- Dawgmatix_ [n=Dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:30:58 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:34:32 Dawgmatix_ [n=Dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:41 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-166-99.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 17:39:00 there was some discussion on release engineering. this is one example of doing it (openbsd): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7pkyDUX5uM 17:39:35 s0ber [i=pie@118-168-238-243.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:43 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@193.109.18.92] has quit [] 17:44:44 LiamH: Weird, as I understood from the gentoo bugtracker, libffi installs in /usr/lib/libffi-.../include as defined in upstream. Probably the deb packagers mess around with the default installation paths (wouldn't be the first time) 17:45:47 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:46:32 dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:48 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:48:09 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:53:00 Sikander: I'm not sure how pkg-config works, but shouldn't it return something non-empty nonetheless? 17:54:13 LiamH: Yeah, I think you're right. What does pkg-config --cflags --libs libffi say? 17:54:47 -lffi , i.e., just the library flag 17:55:45 I tried a bunch of libs at pseudo-random and all of them came back with empty -I flags. 17:56:00 LiamH: that would suggest that ffi.h is in /usr/include 17:56:03 Could it be that if it's in /usr/include, it doesn't give a -I 17:56:27 Hmm - nconc - is this a destructive operation? (nconc x y), shouldn't x be modified to be the appended list of x, and y? 17:56:38 rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 17:56:49 the documentation implies it's a destructive operation, but in practice i'm not seeing it. 17:57:06 OK, so how do I incorporate pkg-config into cffi-grovel? Are external program calls supported portably? 17:57:23 LiamH: Yeah, maybe it doesn't return anything... 17:57:43 in that case, I mean 17:58:05 TDT: typically with a lot of "destructive" operations, the implementation can optionally alter the original or not, it's not required to. 17:58:31 LiamH: I don't know. I just recently started playing around with cffi, and already found things I couldn't do with it. 17:58:37 LiamH: Ah, I see. Well in this case it shouldn't be too bad 17:58:53 -!- Dawgmatix_ [n=Dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:59:28 Sikander: The question was more directed at the cffi experts in the room, I thought one of them might have tried this before. 18:00:35 Ok 18:01:39 LiamH: that's not true of nconc though that's defined to destructively modify 18:01:47 TDT: how do you test? 18:02:23 tcr: Ah, you are right. 18:04:29 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:04:34 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-199-147.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 18:04:46 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:06:07 tcr: Was doing it manually, like (defvar *x* nil) (nconc *x* '("foo")) *x* => returns nil 18:06:13 tcr: for me, on sbcl. 18:06:44 male_terran [n=terran@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:50 well, you cannot modify nil 18:07:18 I've also tried with an empty list as well '(), but according to sbcl that's nil too...at least with type-of. 18:07:19 so (setf *x* (nconc *x* '("foo"))) 18:07:21 how can i kill a running process, do i have to do a slime restart 18:07:36 stassats: yeah, that's what I ended up doing 18:07:39 TDT: well, NIL and empty list is the same everywhere 18:07:47 Guthur: M-x slime-connection-list, then k on the relevant connection 18:08:07 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:08:28 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:09:08 tcr that doesn't seem to be a complete command with me -mode or -make-default 18:09:23 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:09:34 Guthur: Sorry I meant to say M-x slime-list-connections 18:11:15 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 18:11:23 tcr cheers, something else is the problem for me though, it doesn't let me kill it 18:11:41 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:11:41 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:11:49 kill -9? 18:11:54 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-12-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:59 its probably a problem with sdl not dying 18:12:05 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:13:33 though it does seem to just allow me to select the connection and then brings up the repl 18:13:33 which is hung waiting for the program to return i think 18:15:52 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:16:14 ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has joined #lisp 18:16:34 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:19:44 enigma [n=enigma@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 18:20:53 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.173] has joined #lisp 18:20:54 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:21:43 -!- kenpp [n=kenpp@188-221-10-184.zone12.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Operation timed out] 18:22:07 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:22:17 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:24:49 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:00 Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:01 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:26:16 dv___ [n=dv@85-127-109-82.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 18:26:28 -!- Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:26:31 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:26:57 -!- dv___ is now known as dv_ 18:28:27 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@68.100.82.124] has joined #lisp 18:29:15 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:30:09 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:30:15 any mcclim wizards in the house? I'm trying to figure out why with-room-for-graphics doesn't transform the clipping region, and would like to understand some of the working of (invoke-)with-room-for-graphics 18:30:38 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:31:48 Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:11 Why would it transform the clipping region? 18:34:24 And which clipping region would that be? 18:34:28 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:18 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:41:54 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:56 lispm [n=joswig@e177150074.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:42:59 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:44:11 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177150074.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:44:30 lispm [n=joswig@e177150074.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:44:32 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@121.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:46:12 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:46:39 beach: If I draw something with a clipping region inside a with-room-for-graphics environment, I see in the listener that the clipped region is located in the top left corner of the listener, instead of the expected behaviour of the drawing being clipped and the whole being placed at the current position 18:47:29 Thus with-room-for-graphics transforms the drawing, but not the clipping region 18:50:27 I was wondering if the problem lies in the replay inside invoke-with-room-for-graphics. 18:51:30 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.220.32.95] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:52:18 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 18:52:41 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:53:34 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:54:14 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:58:53 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229080066.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 19:02:45 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:03:47 -!- Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 19:07:08 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:07:22 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:07:29 -!- nekobaka [n=baka@c-67-181-80-137.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:09:21 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.141.180] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:10:52 -!- enigma is now known as sepi 19:13:15 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:09 it's probably a bug, because I'm not aware of anyone else using clipping regions in that fashion 19:16:23 ahaas [n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-125.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:22 (not a helpful answer, I guess) 19:17:33 konr [n=konrad@201.82.141.180] has joined #lisp 19:17:34 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:17:58 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:20:11 Joreji [n=thomas@43-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:24:54 kenpp [n=kenpp@188-221-10-184.zone12.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:25:45 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229080066.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:26:31 -!- coyo is now known as coyo[diablo2] 19:26:54 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:27:36 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:30:45 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:31:55 Jabberwockey [n=jens@82.113.121.148] has joined #lisp 19:33:47 -!- jmbr_ is now known as jmbr 19:35:06 Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:53 -!- coyo[diablo2] is now known as coyo 19:36:24 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@12.155.31.10] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:36:48 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:37:41 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-1-244.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:38:04 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:50 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:39:37 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:40:12 drago`` [n=user@82.113.106.145] has joined #lisp 19:41:18 Hmm, I seem to have a case where append violates its function contract by evaluating args from right to left.. 19:41:32 -!- drago` [n=user@82.113.121.158] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:42:41 ...not strictly, only a partial permutation 19:42:57 deepfire: paste. 19:43:41 pkhuong, I'm narrowing it down 19:44:05 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-207-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:45:17 -!- nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:46:56 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:49:47 nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:49 -!- ehu` changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: CMUCL 20a, ABCL 0.16.1, SBCL 1.0.31, Osicat 0.6.0, CFFI 0.10.5, trivial-features 0.5, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, yason-0.1, series 2.2.10. 19:52:03 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:52:04 Ok, what I see doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever, probably corruption or something. 19:52:26 Functions called which are not supposed to be called, this kind of thing. 19:52:46 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:52:48 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:53:27 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-32-162.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:54:50 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:57:56 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@CBL217-132-207-92.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:59:05 -!- hefner [n=hefner@61.90.102.44] has quit ["yar"] 19:59:38 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:01:53 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:02:19 francogrex [n=user@198.54-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:03:21 Hi, has anyone experience with installing asdf for cmucl? I've found several messages on the web for asdf-install but nothing for asdf alone 20:04:31 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.180.3] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:04:49 francogrex: just load asdf.lisp 20:05:45 fe[nl]ix: directly from the untarred directory. then (require 'asdf) will work every time? 20:06:17 no 20:06:23 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-104-232.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:06:23 or do I have to make an init file 20:08:38 Summermute66 [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:03 I'm loading now 20:10:28 -!- dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:14:27 you have to load it in your init file 20:15:21 ok isee thanks 20:16:37 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:16:46 -!- madnificent [n=madnific@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:19:18 Does anyone have a lisp running on the Wii? 20:22:00 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:22:00 -!- galdor [n=galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:22:00 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:22:31 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:23:46 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88.149.210.235] has quit ["Valete!"] 20:24:02 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-235.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:25:53 aanand` [n=user@59.164.100.216] has joined #lisp 20:26:44 Sikander: can I ask you to report this to mcclim-devel with a small example, the result you see, and the result you expect? 20:26:54 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:27:39 Rajin_ [n=Rajin@d082137.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 20:28:46 -!- drago`` [n=user@82.113.106.145] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:28:56 drago`` [n=user@82.113.106.145] has joined #lisp 20:32:23 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.34] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:33:16 phao [n=phao@189.13.222.247] has joined #lisp 20:33:27 -!- stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:33:49 -!- phoenixi [n=tuomosa@a85-156-197-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 20:34:44 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-222-139.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:13 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-235.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 20:39:00 -!- aanand [n=user@59.164.100.216] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:41:39 FullMetalHarlot [n=root@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:05 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:25 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:44:38 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:50:13 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 20:51:45 *sigh* 20:54:19 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-104-232.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:54:39 bad day beach? 20:55:27 jenia pasted "delete-first-occurence" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88808 20:55:33 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=root@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:56:59 Guthur: Nah, just the usual stuff: combination of feeling overworked and bored. 20:58:52 beach bad combo there, well its the weekend, take some time to yourself, do something un-constructive 20:58:52 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:59:01 jenia (or whoever you are). There is no problem that I can see. 20:59:30 jenia: But you should but a spece before the first `(' in a group. 21:00:14 jenia: (Don't Fear) The Lisp-2 21:00:31 -!- male_terran [n=terran@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:00:32 jenia: and there is no reason to name your parameter lst. Name it list. 21:01:14 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:01:18 jenia: Also, you should decide one day whether this function takes only proper lists or arbitrary ones. 21:01:44 male_terran [n=terran@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:47 jenia: in the first case, test for null rather than atom. 21:02:30 jenia: otherwise returnt the parameter as opposed to '() when the list is an atom. 21:02:38 It's caturday, must be a good day. 21:02:51 caturday? 21:03:00 Saturday, with cats. 21:03:07 beach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caturday 21:03:16 (usually lolcats) 21:03:35 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:03:42 I see. 21:04:08 *beach* has a documented allergy to cats. 21:04:12 he said, skeptically. 21:04:16 I'm sorry. :/ 21:04:21 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229080066.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 21:04:54 tic: So how are you doing these days. Any plans to return to my niece's place for a party? 21:05:42 Guthur: Sorry to hear that! 21:05:46 beach: I already reported this bug to the list some time ago, with example and everything. Only two replied to confirm that they could reproduce it and gave some hint as to where I could look to fix the bug. At the time, I was still a lisp n00b, and to be honest, I still am. 21:06:01 -!- francogrex [n=user@198.54-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:06:07 Sikander: Seems you have been recruited to the mcclim dev team! 21:06:21 :( 21:06:25 beach: oh i did lots of constructive things, but i felt you needed a break 21:06:29 turn that frown upside down1 21:06:41 Sikander: Ouch! Sorry about that! I'll try to dig it up and see what I can do. 21:06:54 I got lots of lispy stuff done today 21:06:54 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:06:55 I would definately like to fix it and contribute, make no mistake 21:07:05 beach, I'm doing OK, thanks! I'm waiting for inspiration to arrive... And no, haven't planned any return, although I did enjoy the stay. How about you, other than being overworked? 21:07:25 But as I said, I am digging in the mcclim code, and find it difficult to understand, mostly because I'm still a n00b,and because I'm not fluent in mcclim either 21:07:25 Guthur: Thanks for the support. I am a bit messed up at the moment. 21:07:26 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:08:01 tic: My niece is a great cook and a great person. Perhaps you should go more often. 21:08:34 beach are you trying to get her married off or something 21:08:35 hehe 21:08:45 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:08:45 tic: This my last year as "studierektor" and I have found a successor, so I am off the hook. 21:08:46 She already is, they're both very nice. 21:08:58 Guthur: what tic said. 21:09:00 beach, horray! (I guess?) What's up after that? 21:09:06 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:09:43 tic: Yeah, trying to spend 6 months in Vietnam starting December 2010. 21:09:44 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:10:02 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:10:05 beach, teaching? 21:10:23 tic: Yeah, doing what I do here, but over there instead. 21:10:48 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:10:49 tic: More taking care of things than it would be here, but hey, that's part of the job. 21:10:57 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:11:05 beach, you give some, you get some. 21:11:32 tic: Indeed. I could use a 6-month break from the colleagues here. 21:11:32 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:11:34 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 21:11:43 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:11:47 beach, :D That bad, huh? 21:11:53 yeah. 21:12:24 tic: I am serious though, you should spend more time with Marie & Patrick. It might give you some inspiration. 21:12:36 I'm actually getting /together/ with my colleagues. Engineering Seminar, 500 people, all of Opera, end of next week. 21:12:49 Nice! 21:13:02 beach, I guess I should just spend more time with people, period, although I appreciate your belief in me. :-) 21:13:24 Yeah. I like my colleagues. Work must be horrible if you don't. 21:13:34 tic: Don't overestimate! I believe in everyone! :-) 21:13:43 beach, that's a good feature(?). 21:13:52 it's my job I guess. 21:14:02 serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d066f6c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:05 would be hard to get your students to hack unless you thought they could do it. 21:14:06 good evening 21:14:19 tic: true 21:14:42 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.141.180] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:14:43 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:14:48 serichsen: Good evening! 21:14:55 -!- Rajin_ [n=Rajin@d082137.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:15:02 tic: Though I must admit, it was great to see you "live", and to have the good impressions confirmed. 21:15:20 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:15:27 also hello beach and tic ! 21:15:49 heya, schme. 21:15:50 Hey schme! You really lost out last time. 21:16:01 Yeees I think I did. 21:16:03 beach, nice to hear, thanks. you too. 21:16:05 But there will be more times, I hope. 21:16:10 You guys should have moved the parteeeh down to spain. 21:17:18 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:17:18 schme: Tell that to my niece. On the other hand, there will no doubt be another spring party in Bordeaux in May next year if you prefer to go south. 21:17:54 Much depends on date in May there. I have two seminar / workshops to attend in May (: 21:17:55 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:17:58 I'd prefer if things not went south, actually. .-) 21:18:03 ;-) 21:18:03 -!- drago`` [n=user@82.113.106.145] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:18:15 tic: I see what you mean, yes! :) 21:18:26 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:18:27 Hey, #lisp, anyone from Göteborg here? 21:18:56 tic: I must apologize for not spending more time with you last time. On the other hand, I understand you an mathrick had a good time. 21:19:25 beach, oh, no need to. I feel the same, as a matter of fact. And yes, we got along well. Was a really nice atmosphere. 21:19:43 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-12-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:19:50 aha! I have your Clim app to read through. Better grab it from my work computer. 21:21:34 Wonder if I can it to work now that I use clbuild. 21:22:19 tic: You mean my app to learn Vietnamese? 21:22:27 yeah. 21:22:49 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@68.100.82.124] has quit [] 21:22:53 tic: That was never meant for a wide audience. It needs to read pathnames as opposed to strings. 21:23:07 that's alright. 21:23:28 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-157-23-181.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 21:24:03 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:24:33 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:24:35 tic: It is interesting that the people who write to me in Vietnamese don't measure the amount of support this application gives me, and so they think I am very good at Vietnamese these days, despite what I tell them. 21:25:28 Hehe. 21:25:31 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 21:25:40 What is this app for vietnamese? I was thinking of making some clim thing for learning russian here. 21:25:46 tic: On the other hand, this application actually made it interesting for me to study Vietnamese, whereas I would be bored to tears having to look everything up N times. 21:25:53 Yeah. 21:26:30 schme: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/app.png 21:26:36 $/openurl 5 21:26:42 ahaas: ? 21:26:50 sorry. Trying to open the link. 21:27:04 beach: that looks very interesting. 21:27:07 schme: when I put the pointer on a word, it displays the dictionary entry. 21:27:10 *ahaas* needs to learn Japanese 21:27:25 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 21:27:30 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:27:45 beach: way cool :) 21:28:14 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:28:21 *tic* waits for clbuild and darcs applying patches updating mcclim... 21:28:23 phf [n=user@c-98-218-70-50.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:28 schme: Well, it's the very typical CS-type answer. If you find yourself doing something repretitive, automate it! 21:29:00 (: 21:29:12 *schme* does a lot of repetitive things. hhmmm.. 21:29:25 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Client Quit] 21:29:58 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 21:30:29 schme: It appears I am a productivity freak. I do things that I find perfectly normal, but when I expost these things to others, or when I demand that my students be productive as well, I often get laughed at. 21:30:56 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Client Quit] 21:31:03 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:31:17 schme: That is one thing I like about #lisp; nobody would be laughed at for opinions like that here. 21:31:46 I can somewhat relate to that.. good fun (: 21:31:50 there was a discussion of hunchentoot and threads under heavy load on sbcl-devel, does anyone have a direct link to that? 21:32:17 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:32:37 the discussion was six or so months ago, but i can't find it 21:32:55 minion: tell phf about logs 21:32:55 phf: please see logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 21:33:23 beach: on sbcl-devel mailing list 21:33:48 ah, sorry! 21:34:57 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 21:36:10 boo, *default-pathname-defaults* isn't in the central registry in clbuild. 21:40:42 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-129-134.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:04 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:41:30 ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has joined #lisp 21:41:47 or am I misunderstanding? 21:41:49 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@43-159.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:42:37 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-162-45.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 21:44:47 -!- phao [n=phao@189.13.222.247] has left #lisp 21:44:52 Night, #lisp. 21:44:53 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 21:45:22 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:45:27 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 21:45:39 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:24 -!- morphling [n=stefan@89.14.130.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:48:17 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.58.104] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:48:42 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:50:05 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.173] has quit ["so long.."] 21:50:07 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:50:20 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:53:07 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:53:34 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has left #lisp 21:57:08 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:57:42 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:04 Is it possible to embed SBCL in another program, or is ECL really the only way to do that? 21:59:51 sure it is possible 22:00:58 practical? 22:01:31 stoop [n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop] has joined #lisp 22:01:51 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@82.113.121.148] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:04:01 SBCL question: So I have this function (VALIDATE-SEQUENCE-BOUNDS seq start end) which has a declaimed ftype such that start and end are both unsigned-byte. Now, if I evaluate (validate-sequence-bounds nil -1 -1) I get a type-error (signalled by sbcl), but it actually should signal its own error type 22:05:03 stassats: say I want to use SBCL (rather than ECL, for spec conformance and performance reasons) in a C++-cored game engine; is this feasible? 22:05:14 Isn't there some declaration to say to omit the type checks? 22:05:23 just make a library and embed that in SBCL instead, Ralith .. that's how everyone else does it (e.g., python + pygtk .. sbcl + cl-opengl for opengl ..) 22:05:56 lnostdal: ooh, good call. 22:05:57 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:05:57 Ralith: what game engine? 22:05:58 Ralith: i don't know, but i wouldn't consider it at first 22:06:01 sykopomp: no game engine. 22:06:07 tcr: not really, except wrapping the call in (safety 0). 22:06:10 sykopomp: this is hypothetical :P 22:06:11 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:06:21 stassats: why not? 22:06:34 Ralith: write the game engine in CL. Problem solved. 22:06:47 Ralith: in any case -- you're probably aware of Okra :) 22:06:49 well, first, c++ doesn't play well with FFI 22:06:58 pkhuong: Actually, I think it's fine with signaling a type error. 22:07:14 It was just, kind of, unexpecting 22:07:20 but makes sense 22:07:24 nyquist [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 22:07:57 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:08:20 stassats: even if I expose a C-linkage API? 22:09:51 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:10:57 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:11:30 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:30 drago`` [n=user@82.113.121.150] has joined #lisp 22:11:41 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1ACC.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:12:16 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:15:27 benny [n=benny@i577A1ACC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:15:27 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:15:42 ephcon [n=ephcon@c-24-63-201-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:56 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:18:24 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:19:16 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:31 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:37 I'm probably crazy for wanting (subtypep '(simple-bit-vector 5) '(simple-bit-vector 10)) to return T 22:21:53 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:22:04 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:22:11 Is there a good way to get rid of the length bit of type-specifiers? 22:22:57 retupmoca [n=retupmoc@ppp-70-226-85-68.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:09 size is optional, or you could use the placeholder *, or I misunderstand 22:23:28 No I mean how to get rid of it from an existing type specifier 22:23:33 i.e. the return value of type-of 22:24:23 the return value of type-of is a wee bit underspecified 22:24:24 I think the extra args are always optional, so you could just take the car when it's a cons 22:25:06 (simple-bit-vector 5) might also be (simple-array (5) (integer 0 1)) 22:25:07 even for member, (subtypep '(member) 'nil) => t, t 22:25:17 S11001001: won't work for strings which are (simple-array character (42)) 22:25:40 piso: you got that swapped 22:25:52 yeah, I often do that :) 22:26:07 I want to compare two such things for the same type modulo length 22:26:23 -!- ephcon [n=ephcon@c-24-63-201-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:26:58 beach: I'll have you know that I didn't feel forsaken at all. And it was probably my language geek side showing, once I get hold of someone like tic, where I could drill him in Polish, I don't let go easily :) 22:27:11 beach: but of course I'd be very glad to talk with you more if you feel so inclined 22:27:14 good night 22:27:18 night 22:27:50 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d066f6c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["die nacht muß eine frau sein"] 22:27:52 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:29:27 tcr: I don't think there's any trivial way to do that 22:30:08 tcr: you'd have to write code to parse the type-specifier, normalize it, and throw away the length part 22:30:27 tcr, http://paste.lisp.org/display/88810 22:30:30 *shrug* 22:30:45 i don't know if a portable way exists 22:31:02 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:31:07 lnostdal: sheesh, anybody can do it that way :) 22:31:23 the type specifiers thing is sadly very much underspecified 22:31:35 way too flexible, way too few portable tools to work with it given 22:31:52 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:31:54 cltl3? 22:31:59 ..so much to do.. 22:32:00 mathrick: the flexibiility isn't a bad thing 22:32:08 flexibility, even 22:32:35 piso: Yeah I was hoping someone (e.g. krystof) did something like that 3 years ago.. 22:32:43 piso: my last hope would be the ansi-suite 22:32:58 tcr: I think every implementation solves this problem, but in its own way 22:33:04 piso: no, but it's turing-complete with almost nothing in the way of limiting that to improve tools 22:34:43 so you run into the halting problem pretty much immediately 22:36:44 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:37:18 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:38:26 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:39:08 my kludgy solution: http://paste.lisp.org/display/88810#1 22:39:41 FareWell [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:21 and then you apply subtypep to the upgraded-sequence-types 22:40:44 sure 22:40:45 or alexandria:type= 22:40:59 that's what I'm using ;) 22:42:12 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec`afk 22:42:29 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:42:34 -!- FareWell is now known as Fare 22:42:42 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:44:30 -!- nyquist [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:46:57 milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.223] has joined #lisp 22:48:50 mop class-prototype 22:49:28 Not knowing the specification of class-prototype, (sb-mop:class-prototype (find-class 'string)) => 42 seems somewhat quirky 22:49:33 -!- nha [n=prefect@85.4.174.31] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:50:04 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:50:26 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:53:23 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-104-232.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:53:23 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:54:05 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:56:55 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.223] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:58:16 gah, pathnames to strings... 23:00:23 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.34] has joined #lisp 23:00:25 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 23:00:40 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.34] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:02:30 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 23:02:30 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:02:41 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:05:14 tcr: !!! you've found the question! 23:05:18 brilliant. 23:05:58 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.180.3] has joined #lisp 23:12:14 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-235.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 23:13:19 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-123-94.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:14:04 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-123-94.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:14:04 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:16:18 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:21:35 redblue [i=star@ppp061.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:23:40 urg, hwo do you get a string back from a pathname for the full path? 23:23:41 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:23:54 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:25:17 clhs namestring 23:25:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_namest.htm 23:25:28 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 23:27:07 stassats: some days i can't find my head with two hands :P 23:27:19 i was trying pathname-namestring to tease it out of the struct 23:27:20 :P 23:27:27 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:28:24 _8david [n=user@pD9540430.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:28:49 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:28:54 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:07 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:34:21 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:34:41 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:36:57 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-113-231.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:37:02 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:37:44 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:37:55 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:39:50 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-162-45.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:39:51 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:40:04 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:41:13 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:42:05 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-123-94.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:43:18 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.54.192] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:43:18 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:43:41 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:45:00 -!- lichtblau [n=user@pD95405C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 23:46:36 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 23:46:36 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:46:49 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:46:59 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Client Quit] 23:47:33 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 23:48:58 LiamH: I'm trying to get fft's to work within gsll, and have a question about marrays. Are one-dimensional complex double float arrays (or vectors) stored as a linear array with alternating real and imaginary values in memory? 23:50:13 Yes. 23:50:13 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:50:27 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:51:01 Well, I should qualify that. On the CL side they're stored however the CL implementation wants to store an array of complexes. 23:51:04 That's what I thought. 23:51:17 I only care about the C side now 23:51:29 On the C side, they're stored the way you describe, because that's what GSL wants. 23:51:49 madnificent [n=madnific@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 23:52:32 For some reason, the fft function runs and succeeds, but the array remains untouched, even though gsl would write it in that same array 23:53:04 What's your implementation? 23:53:06 Odin- [n=sbkhh@193.109.18.92] has joined #lisp 23:53:16 And as far as I can see, inputs and outputs is properly defined. 23:53:28 Lemme pastebin a function. one sec 23:53:28 ... that was going to be my next question 23:53:44 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-157-23-181.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:44 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:54:06 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:55:43 Sikander pasted "example gsll fft for LiamH" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88814 23:55:45 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:56:15 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:57:03 As far as I understand, this is the "proper" gsll way of defining the function 23:57:38 Nothing jumps out at me as wrong, no. 23:57:46 Oh, weird indenting, sorry about that 23:58:13 Ok, I'll just mess around. 23:58:50 By the way, should this be a method with x being an marray? 23:59:05 I don't think it makes any sense fft-ing anything else, though... 23:59:06 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:08 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:59:13 (nor can you) 23:59:24 ASau` [n=user@ppp91-76-59-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp