00:01:34 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:02:15 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 00:03:25 -!- Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-31-66.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 00:07:26 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 00:08:49 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host86-147-40-39.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:09:52 -!- amocla [n=jay@c-98-236-74-177.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:11:23 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-31-66.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:11:24 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:13:24 ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 00:20:17 -!- saikat_ is now known as saikat 00:21:49 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-168-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:22:16 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-99-173-24-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:37 -!- manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6F943.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 00:23:42 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:04 -!- faux` [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 00:28:30 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 00:33:19 ace4016 [i=ace4016@76.87.82.22] has joined #lisp 00:36:12 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:36:28 ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 00:36:40 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.247.2.204] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:40:33 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:44:20 -!- StarmanDX [n=chatzill@pool-71-104-27-150.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 00:44:39 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:41 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 00:48:05 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:31 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-31-66.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 00:56:39 -!- redblue [i=star@207.253.108.12] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 01:00:03 -!- kei [n=gueorgui@gmt.su] has quit ["leaving"] 01:02:55 Madsy [n=Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 01:07:08 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 01:10:49 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 01:11:54 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:17:34 simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:19:28 -!- seangrov` [n=user@adsl-99-140-149-214.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:21:41 how do you create a standalone executable with ecl? 01:21:53 I try something like ecl -compile foo.lisp 01:22:01 then doing ./foo.fas gives me a segmentation fault 01:22:57 http://ecls.sourceforge.net/new-manual/ch24s03.html 01:23:55 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@dyn57-11.yok.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:24:14 ah, I must've overlooked it in the overview. Thanks :) 01:26:20 ol3``` [n=user@82.113.121.154] has joined #lisp 01:26:29 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-ocupado 01:28:07 -!- jasber_ [n=bjasper@173-26-98-219.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:29:56 madnificent: there's internal build system + ASDF extensions 01:30:51 I especially like ability to compile ASDF systems into DLLs :D 01:35:17 p_l: do I need to compile ASDF systems into DLLs, if I use c:build-program? 01:35:27 and yes, that is rather sexy 01:35:34 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:35:49 madnificent: no, but ability to create images for individual systems is very sexy 01:35:53 loading fasls in ecl goes rediculously fast too 01:36:08 madnificent: that's because they are practically the same thing as dlls 01:36:20 I discovered that :) 01:40:33 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 01:41:16 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:35 -!- ol3`` [n=user@82.113.121.80] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:41:37 I can't seem to make an ecl-based executable output anything 01:41:40 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2C95C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:42:00 (at least not through format T, perhaps I need to write to a different stream for a compiled program 01:42:07 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-90350.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:46:12 EinarDogfin [n=plyryan@pool-71-113-49-75.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:20 psismondi [n=user@d24-150-10-209.home.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:20 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:48:35 ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 01:49:08 sdkf 01:49:27 -!- psismondi [n=user@d24-150-10-209.home.cgocable.net] has left #lisp 01:50:23 psismondi [n=user@d24-150-10-209.home.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:22 Hey. I'm new here. Is anybody prepared to answer a question? 01:51:45 psismondi: don't ask to ask, just ask. 01:52:04 It's Thanksgiving in Canada. 01:52:15 madnificent - http://github.com/ayrnieu/ecl-examples ; there's nothing special about output 01:53:46 ayrnieu: ty, hope I find something :) 01:55:24 psismondi: that isn't a question. 01:58:11 ok I get it now: don't ask to ask just ask: how do I single step in ccl? 01:58:44 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-56-101.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:59:34 -!- psismondi [n=user@d24-150-10-209.home.cgocable.net] has left #lisp 02:03:13 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.128.149.169] has joined #lisp 02:05:04 S11001001 [n=sirian@74.137.151.39] has joined #lisp 02:06:18 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@76.87.82.22] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:21 -!- marioxcc-ocupado is now known as marioxcc 02:09:14 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:09:34 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:09:41 -!- ol3``` [n=user@82.113.121.154] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:12:24 ayrnieu: ah, you need to specify the lisp files which you've used? You can't make it use the current environment? 02:13:38 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:13:57 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.128.149.169] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:14:06 ayrnieu: if you'd care to reply to that, please msg me. I'm off to bed 02:14:14 holly__ [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:14:25 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-186.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 02:14:48 traces of alien lisp code light up in my room now 02:15:39 madnificent - I think it didn't even occur to me to dump an ecl image as an executable. 02:15:54 but if you ASDF , I show there how you can have it read the files from that. 02:16:11 ayrnieu: that'd be interesting 02:16:43 ayrnieu: given the path to an asd file (or an asd that asdf knows about) what should I do? 02:17:06 see http://github.com/ayrnieu/ecl-examples/blob/master/ecl-make.lisp and http://github.com/ayrnieu/ecl-examples/blob/master/cl-hello.asd 02:19:00 ayrnieu: how do you dependencies to that? I have one dependency which should be loaded too :) 02:19:26 ayrnieu: I saw those files, but could not make that up through the cl-hello-system:*components* 02:19:28 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:23:04 I don't follow what you just said. Anyway, sorry, my initial "if you use ASDF then you can just read from" was misleading. I don't repeat the filenames, but the .asd must still do extra work for ecl-make.lisp 02:23:45 well, this 'll be something for later then :) could be a cool thing to have though 02:23:48 danlei [n=user@pD9E2C95C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:21 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:28:39 -!- pepone [n=pepone@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit ["KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3437, sources date: 20090703, built on: 2009/09/09 21:03:17 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/"] 02:28:43 -!- holly_ [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:30:38 -!- benny` is now known as benny 02:31:29 :O 02:31:30 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:31:52 ASau` [n=user@83.237.166.229] has joined #lisp 02:34:28 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 02:38:23 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-82-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:41:41 Adlai` [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 02:41:48 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:43:06 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 02:43:46 -!- TDT [n=dthole@254.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has quit [] 02:44:15 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:44:19 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 02:46:50 -!- ``Erik [i=Here@69.140.109.104] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:47:04 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:49:52 i was trying to win a pissing contest then discovered that both sbcl and clisp allow one to redefine CL builtin functions 02:50:04 if you continue past the package-lock warning 02:50:34 i can't redefine built-in-classes but i can redefine builtin functions? 02:50:39 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:51:40 the appropriate way to extend/specialize the language is to do so within hand-crafted packed, i know .. 02:52:38 are there any advantages to doing that instead of making your own package and using shadow/import/* accordingly? 02:52:50 since i think clhs says you shouldn't do that 02:54:15 <_3b> if it worked, it would have the advantage of affecting existing code 02:55:11 ljames: that's what i meant by "packed", package. yes, you do it in your own package. 02:55:22 i am just responding to uninformed lisp-whiners 02:55:45 ah 02:55:59 seisatsu_ [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:55 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:58 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-168-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:57:17 Why? 02:57:28 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-99-173-24-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:57:41 gko [n=gko@211.22.47.2] has joined #lisp 02:59:27 because FUD shouldn't go unanswered 02:59:59 why do people go around making grand comments but something they obviously don't understand, i will never know 03:00:03 Seems like you will be busy doing a lot of this talking then (: 03:00:26 duty calls http://xkcd.com/386/ 03:00:29 I think it is human nature. I see i everywhere. 03:00:35 I see I 03:00:38 it obviously (: 03:00:53 I love that one. 03:01:27 jasber [n=bjasper@173-26-98-219.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:38 *schme* stops throwing dem stones in glass houses. I do the same when it comes to other areas of interest :) 03:08:46 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.56.159.173] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:10:41 Isn't "uninformed lisp whiner" redundant? 03:11:31 there, this should silence them 03:12:12 someone said "threads are unstandardized in CL" and I said "show me a single mainstream language, other than Java, where threads are in the standard". 03:13:40 not that I know but, probably C#, right? 03:13:46 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:13:47 what's worse than Lisp whiners are those that pull out factoids from the '70s. Vax Lisp gurus, you're not helping the cause .. shuttup! 03:13:48 it would stand to reason 03:14:42 s/java/java-clone/g 03:15:14 tychoish: No threads here http://www.jaggersoft.com/csharp_standard/index.htm 03:15:30 http://common-lisp.net/project/bordeaux-threads/ 03:16:16 ayrnieu: I used bt, arnesi and closermop in my code 03:16:27 de facto is the new standard 03:16:27 -!- ASau` [n=user@83.237.166.229] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:16:46 ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:16:49 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c142-5.icpnet.pl] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:17:00 T-shirt 03:17:20 -!- coyo [n=alex@ppp-70-129-141-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit ["sudo nmap -A -PN localhost"] 03:18:16 I wasn't making an argument so much as being a pain :p 03:23:03 fusss: F# 03:23:19 schme: ugh 03:24:02 I was going with erlang. doesnt really have dem threads I realised (: 03:24:30 are either Erlang or F# "standardized"? 03:24:52 Are either really mainstream? 03:25:27 F#: a visual studio plugin for Ocaml. 03:26:18 fusss: I don't think Erlang is truly standardised, but quite a lot of Erlang's features come from its VM, so... 03:27:05 F# is quite different from ocaml in several ways. and it is being developed much faster. 03:27:11 and good .Net support etc. very nice. ya. 03:27:12 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 03:27:14 as for languages that are not java-related with in-built support for concurrency, there's also Limbo 03:27:56 p_l: mainstream AND standardized 03:28:32 is a bit hard to find both (: 03:28:35 sheesh, you might as well reach out to Linda 03:28:42 hmm... C/OpenMP? 03:29:02 ok, i give up .. out for a smoke 03:29:09 eeew 03:29:10 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:29:13 *schme* goes out for a jog 03:29:32 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [] 03:29:40 if i went for a jog everytime i was frustrated, i would never have time for the internet 03:29:48 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 03:32:46 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:33:54 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 03:34:54 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:35:47 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:36:24 You probably get overuse injuries in the knees and ankles as well. 03:36:41 s/You/You'd/ 03:37:24 envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 03:38:54 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:39:15 ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:43:04 caoliver: i already keep a few orphans around to harvest for lungs, might as well use their mechanical hardware as well 03:44:17 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:44:50 *Adlai* blinks 03:45:04 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:49:35 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:50:17 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:52:45 -!- ubii [n=ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:54:58 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:55:22 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 03:56:39 fusss: I think mechanical replacements might be better 03:57:37 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:59:02 "first, just one monkey-butler, he will train the others" -- Bart Simpson 04:00:52 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable065.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:02:03 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:02:12 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable065.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:02:17 ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:03:10 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:19 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 04:03:20 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:08:49 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:09:13 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:10:07 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 04:14:06 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 04:25:19 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 04:25:21 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:30:25 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 04:30:25 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:30:49 ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:31:37 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:33:57 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:34:31 Good morning! 04:36:41 good morning beach 04:47:58 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:49:01 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable065.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:50:23 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable065.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:52:03 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:52:19 ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:53:07 [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.2] has joined #lisp 04:54:56 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit ["leaving"] 04:57:09 killerstorm2 [n=alex_miz@sputnik.donapex.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:36 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89-180-157-86.net.novis.pt] has left #lisp 05:01:41 -!- killerstorm2 [n=alex_miz@sputnik.donapex.net] has left #lisp 05:04:27 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:08:33 ski___ [n=slj@c-c110e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:08:43 -!- ski [n=slj@c-c110e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:09:06 -!- ski___ is now known as ski 05:09:24 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 05:11:52 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@wsip-70-167-159-196.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:03 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:15 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:16:23 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:16:32 -!- roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 05:16:46 ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:19:31 ubii [n=ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:46 -!- ASau` [n=user@ppp83-237-166-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit ["off"] 05:32:08 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable065.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 05:32:51 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:33:04 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 05:33:29 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable065.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:38:17 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:38:34 derekv [i=ybxxhbox@c-76-112-240-178.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:48 -!- setheus [n=setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit ["leaving"] 05:45:40 hello 05:45:44 hello mrSpec 05:46:43 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=root@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:47:47 I... AM.. JOB 05:51:24 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:55:16 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:55:28 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@217.18.135.36] has joined #lisp 05:55:43 redblue [i=star@ppp032.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:55:51 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 05:56:22 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:56:54 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 05:57:56 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-104-221.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:03:33 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:08:51 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 06:09:16 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 06:14:25 ASau [n=user@77.246.231.22] has joined #lisp 06:18:21 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:19:47 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 06:21:01 serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06e1a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:05 good morning 06:31:43 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@wsip-70-167-159-196.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:37:05 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 06:45:13 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:45:21 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:45:29 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-206-23-142.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:46:05 xyxuxiyu [n=xyxuxiyu@124.76.13.151] has joined #lisp 06:46:39 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229145045.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 06:49:37 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:53:23 Aviado [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:39 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:53:42 -!- Aviado is now known as Vonunov 06:53:49 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 06:59:00 sepult` [n=levgue@87.78.170.19] has joined #lisp 06:59:26 -!- holly__ [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:59:29 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-168-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:59:35 holly__ [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:01:01 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A02CF.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:06:55 -!- didi [n=user@189-68-39-99.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:07:32 -!- ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.224] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:09:28 hello serichsen 07:11:51 angerman [n=angerman@002241f85e1b.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:12:48 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@217.18.135.36] has quit [] 07:16:04 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:17:40 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:18:28 -!- seisatsu_ [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:18:38 good morning 07:23:26 hello beach, mvilleneuve 07:26:05 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-16-197.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:30:42 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.231.22] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:32:58 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:33:45 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@122-57-27-177.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:34:27 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:35:03 ASau [n=user@77.246.231.22] has joined #lisp 07:35:27 -!- OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@122-57-27-177.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:36:28 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@122.57.27.177] has joined #lisp 07:36:28 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:20 morning all 07:43:03 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-64-32.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:43:40 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-104-221.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:44:52 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:51:48 -!- angerman [n=angerman@002241f85e1b.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [] 07:51:50 Taggnostr [n=x@86.50.68.11] has joined #lisp 07:52:28 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:53:02 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:53:06 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:53:09 drafael [n=tapio@118.90.141.113] has joined #lisp 07:53:21 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:44 hey mvilleneuve 07:55:47 hey p_l 07:58:04 minion: help memo 07:58:05 To send a memo, say something like ``minion: memo for nick: the memo''. I'll remember the memo for any nick which is the same as the given nick, +/- differences in punctuation, and any nick which is an alias for it, and give it to them when they next speak. 07:59:14 minion: memo for lpolzer: when a paktahn index is out of date and must be updated, paktahn silently fails to write the updated index to disk unless ran as root. 07:59:14 Remembered. I'll tell lpolzer when he/she/it next speaks. 08:01:37 coyo [n=alex@ppp-70-129-141-101.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:22 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:04:25 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 08:05:43 -!- sundar [n=sundar@sonsari.hyd.deshaw.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:06:18 -!- Maddas [n=mz@74.125.121.33] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 08:06:44 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.236.91] has joined #lisp 08:17:47 lpolzer [n=lpolzer@88.73.237.251] has joined #lisp 08:18:21 lpolzer: hey 08:18:25 firstly, ignore Ralith's memo 08:18:32 hi adlai 08:18:32 lpolzer, memo from Ralith: when a paktahn index is out of date and must be updated, paktahn silently fails to write the updated index to disk unless ran as root. 08:18:43 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:18:56 Adlai, I'm happy to follow your advice :) 08:19:03 we've been discussing that issue and it's not a problem. 08:19:08 secondly, the binary on your paktahn repo for x86_64 is a bit out of date 08:19:12 yeah 08:19:17 no one has volunteered to create one so far 08:19:21 I have a new one, however, do you want me to email it to you? 08:19:22 and I can't 08:19:32 yes, email or upload would be fine 08:19:40 upload to where? 08:21:02 there are several possibilities; maybe you have your own server (or shell account) 08:21:04 lpolzer: details on memo'd bug: only appears to happen when updating--not creating--an index, and has been independently verified. 08:21:11 if not I can register you as packager on github or berlios 08:21:18 and you can just upload at their sites 08:21:33 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:21:34 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 08:21:38 Ralith, are you sure it is not a permission problem? 08:21:38 lpolzer: I'm not sure where Adlai got the idea that this issue isn't a problem :P 08:21:42 lpolzer: yes, certain 08:21:59 the dir was created by paktahn in the first place, and I manually verified full r/w for all files 08:22:02 also note that there is no error 08:22:05 'silently fails' 08:22:28 since it fails silently, got a quick recipe to reproduce it and see what's wrong? 08:22:35 this should do it: 08:22:42 install paktahn 08:22:46 run once to generate index 08:22:53 run again to verify that index doesn't need updating 08:22:57 pacman -Sy 08:23:03 run as user 08:23:03 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:23:04 run as user 08:23:05 run as root 08:23:06 lpolzer: don't have my own server. I do have a github account, though. 08:23:06 run as user 08:23:15 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:37 unless the issue is significantly more subtle than I expect, that should reproduce reliably. 08:23:40 Ralith, how and at what point can I see that something's wrong? 08:23:47 Adlai, adding you 08:24:06 lpolzer: when paktahn notes that the index needs updating the second time in a row ran as user. 08:24:50 lpolzer: of course, I imagine this only works if pacman -Sy has stuff to update. 08:24:58 so whatever you do, don't run that first :P 08:25:16 well, `touch' should do the job, too 08:25:20 it's all about timestamps 08:25:45 thanks for the report, I'll check and fix it 08:26:08 good luck! 08:26:15 *Ralith* has to get to sleep now 08:26:35 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 08:27:13 Ralith, good night 08:27:24 'nite 08:27:25 Adlai, you got the permissions 08:27:32 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 08:28:14 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 08:28:38 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:40 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 08:32:08 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:33 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:32:41 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 08:32:50 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 08:34:38 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:22 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:36:29 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 08:37:45 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84.51.132.95] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 08:42:11 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:43:34 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:47:33 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 08:50:54 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 08:52:53 Soulman [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:53:18 Adlai` [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 08:54:09 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:54:20 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 08:55:06 KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 08:58:36 Adlai, how do I get minion to tell me the list of commands he knows about? 08:59:08 minion: help 08:59:08 There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms". 08:59:49 lpolzer: at least, that's all that I know of. I guess you could read the source... :\ 09:00:07 that's enough, thanks 09:00:19 how's your ccl port going, by the way? 09:00:29 redline and I were wondering just yesterday about it 09:00:49 so-so 09:00:57 I haven't worked on it in the past week 09:01:25 any major stumbling blocks? 09:01:26 I noticed that you added a dependency on sb-md5; should I use a protable md5 library for CCL? 09:01:33 yes, sb-md5 :) 09:01:39 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 09:01:44 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 09:01:55 also the command-line arguments issue, but there's a temporary workaround 09:01:56 yeah, just require cl-md5 09:02:01 I'll take care of the dep stuff 09:02:11 ok 09:02:37 minion: memo for Ralith: doesn't happen here. I always get a good cache on the first run. can you check again? you are using 0.8.1, right? 09:02:37 Remembered. I'll tell Ralith when he/she/it next speaks. 09:03:02 Adlai, does this problem happen to you at all? 09:03:06 lpolzer: that's why I told you to ignore it -- I talked with Ralith about the issue and it didn't come up at all. 09:03:27 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:03:39 I think that if you run it as user a few times and the cache gets updated, then when you run it as root, the cache is up-to-date already, so it -seems- as though running as root solves it. 09:04:09 yeah, that may be 09:04:22 I forgot the details; if I re-evaluate a defgeneric form with (:method) clauses, will that remove methods that had been added via defmethod? 09:04:47 tcr, what would be the alternative? 09:05:11 tcr: yes, it should act as though you had called defmethod. 09:05:26 Adlai: Precisely not 09:05:48 oh, I see what you mean. 09:05:56 yeah, calling defgeneric removes existing methods. 09:06:16 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:06:17 regardless of whether you've got :method clauses. 09:06:26 Really? 09:06:57 it looks that way from the description in the spec. 09:07:04 clhs defgeneric 09:07:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defgen.htm 09:07:37 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:08:10 lpolzer: I've started uploading to github.com/skypher/paktahn... it seems to be taking a while, though. 09:08:35 Adlai, sure, let me know when it's complete 09:10:13 hmm, it seems to have frozen my browser. 09:12:23 Fjant [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:58 lpolzer: can you check the downloads page? It says it completed, but I get an error from github if I try to download it. 09:13:36 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:17:19 Adlai, I get a permission denied error too 09:17:20 bah 09:17:35 ok, I'll delete the file 09:17:40 would it be possible to email it to you? 09:17:53 sure, go ahead 09:17:56 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:17:57 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:22:12 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:22:30 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:23:52 -!- l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 09:28:25 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:29:02 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:29:37 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 09:31:52 lpolzer: started sending. It's at 3% right now, I'll let you know when to check... 09:32:03 alright 09:34:35 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:37:30 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 09:37:47 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:41:23 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:42:22 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:43:49 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:46:35 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 09:49:01 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:51:58 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:52:38 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:56:39 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:57:05 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 09:57:33 ol3``` [n=user@82.113.106.87] has joined #lisp 09:58:51 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-82-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 10:03:28 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:06:12 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 10:07:57 -!- xyxuxiyu [n=xyxuxiyu@124.76.13.151] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:13:27 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:13:31 deepfire_ [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 10:14:55 Odin- [n=sbkhh@193.109.18.92] has joined #lisp 10:16:28 -!- deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:16:37 -!- deepfire_ is now known as deepfire 10:17:02 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 10:19:23 ln5 [n=ln5@nordutug-gw.nordu.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:09 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:20:53 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:21:55 Douglish [i=dal@horinek.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:59 Hi everybody. 10:22:05 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:22:11 -!- ln5 [n=ln5@nordutug-gw.nordu.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:22:28 hello Douglish 10:22:49 That's nice to find someone who lisps. 10:23:11 Douglish: New here? 10:23:20 Yep. 10:23:31 What brings you to #lisp? 10:24:03 -!- saikat [n=saikat@rescomp-09-132118.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 10:24:23 Actually we do lisp at school, so that's why. 10:24:38 What school is that? 10:25:31 lichtblau: I recall reading a while ago you were well on your way to make CommonQT work well on Windows but I didn't bookmark it and can't find it anymore. What's the status? 10:26:02 beach: It's University of Palacky (department of computer scicence) in Czech Republic. 10:26:30 Douglish: Great to hear that they are doing Lisp there. Welcome to #lisp! 10:26:49 Thank you. 10:27:08 Anyway I'm kind of a newbie :) 10:27:25 Douglish: That's fine. We were all newbies at some point. 10:27:30 Douglish: don't tell anyone, but there's a -couple- of lispers in here. We keep it quiet, though, you know how it is. 10:27:32 -!- gko [n=gko@211.22.47.2] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1"] 10:28:38 aerique: how's okra coming along, btw? 10:29:07 What environment/tools do you use for lisp? 10:29:21 minion: tell Douglish about slime! 10:29:23 Douglish: look at slime: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/slime 10:29:25 Douglish: emacs+slime 10:29:46 Douglish: implementation-wise, I use sbcl, clisp, clozurecl, and occasionally try stuff on ecl 10:30:09 Douglish: People here are usually newbie-friendly, but they get impatient with people who won't listen to advice. 10:30:19 (incf beach) 10:30:34 (decf beach -1) 10:30:45 beach: I know, that's not just here. :) 10:30:57 beach: I always found it puzzling that people thought #lispers were hostile. 10:31:08 everyone was pretty damn helpful when I was starting out :) 10:31:10 Anyway we are forced to use LispWorks and I don't actually like this much. 10:31:25 Douglish: SLIME can work with LW. 10:31:27 Douglish: you're using the LW IDE and all that? 10:31:30 sykopomp: As I understand it, it has to do with experience from other channels. 10:31:35 sykopomp: Yes. 10:32:19 Douglish: what adlai said. Also, we have a standard for a reason: you can write portable CL code. 10:32:22 I use and love slime and emacs, but some of the best CL hackers I know swear by LispWorks (including Edi) 10:32:33 indeed 10:32:44 Edi and Pascal are the most notable, right? Who else? 10:32:54 Douglish: Can you set up SLIME to use on your own computer? 10:32:55 (costanza, that is) 10:33:15 Marc Battyani 10:33:19 I'll look ar repositories. 10:33:40 sykopomp: also, many commercial CL projects run on LW. 10:34:54 Adlai: allegro always seemed more popular for big commercial stuff. 10:35:11 I think SIFT uses it... 10:35:31 I think LW had a majority at ECLM. 10:35:36 sykopomp: I'm adding to it now and then while using it in personal projects. I even got an e-mail from someone interested in using it ;-) 10:35:59 LW seems to be pretty popular with europeans. I don't know if that's the case worldwide 10:36:11 I think there was a discussion about that at some point 10:36:38 sykopomp: It could use a good cleanup and a set of other eyes looking at it, but I'm really not motivated to do that myself at the moment after having worked on it for so long. 10:36:50 morphling [n=stefan@89.13.38.180] has joined #lisp 10:36:54 aerique: I know the feeling :( 10:37:09 sykopomp: It's really very much a first version but it's more usable than I expected so that's good. 10:38:02 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:39:46 fourier [n=user@82.194.224.230] has joined #lisp 10:40:57 aerique: indeed. I need to learn to do 3d graphics stuff at some point :\ 10:46:05 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:48:28 josemanuel [n=josemanu@38.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:49:09 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 10:49:35 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:49:38 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 10:52:08 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:47 aerique: I had it working using the terrible "generate on linux, copy over and compile on windows" method documented in a blog posting. 10:55:15 Since then, the smoke guys have rewritten their header parser from Perl to C++, and it's now portable. I have been able to compile smoke on Windows recently with not much more hassle than on Linux. 10:56:19 Unfortunately, CommonQt doesn't really work with that new generator yet. 10:57:37 You might have more luck with cl-smoke. Tobias says he doesn't use windows, but cl-smoke works with the new generator (in fact, needs it), so it might work out of the box on windows. (As much as anything requiring a MingW or MS Visual C++ installation can be called "out of the box".) 10:58:39 I am definitely planning to get a pre-built CommonQt binary for windows running at some point, but recently I have been concentrating on getting portable Hemlock's TTY backend working, so the Qt backend hasn't been my focus. 11:00:34 lichtblau: you intend to use your hemlock for admin stuff ? 11:00:49 what does admin mean? 11:01:46 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F3DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:55 Because of the TTY backend? No, I'd like to use Hemlock to Lisp development, and for me that includes being able to run in screen, so that I can detach and reattach easily on remote machines. 11:02:58 E.g., I have my stuff at work running in a VM which I just want to SSH into. The Qt backend is nice because of shiny graphics and the Webkit integration and stuff like that, but for most development I just prefer working in screen. 11:04:59 lichtblau: thanks for the info, i'll go check cl-smoke out first then before i commit myself to one or the other. i had commonqt working on linux without any hassle so that was nice 11:07:11 aerique: Tobias even wrote a compatibility library that simulates the CommonQt API on top of cl-smoke. Don't know how good it is, but perhaps it would help you. 11:09:11 (It's a slightly odd thing to do, because it simulates a light-weight API on top of a heavy-weight one. Probably nice to check whether one implementation works better than the other though.) 11:09:26 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 11:09:37 lichtblau: I won't need it, I don't have stacks of code yet depending on CommonQT :) 11:09:38 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:10:19 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 11:11:38 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 11:12:55 lichtblau: there was a short discussion here the other day about reader macros (#_foo ...) vs. plain macros (qt foo ...). Why did you go for reader macros in commonqt? 11:15:20 Well, these are options that don't exclude each other. 11:15:26 #_ is reader syntax that expands into a use of NEW or CALL. (Which happen to be functions, not macros, BTW.) 11:16:14 If you really want to type (call "ClassName" "staticMethodName" arg) all the time, you can do that. 11:16:46 The reader macro helps avoid the quotes and handles case sensitivity. 11:17:06 well, no, hence the suggestion to use a macro 11:17:32 ah, well. could be done with a mapping, but ok... 11:17:35 I don't see how macros enter into this discussion. 11:19:55 If you want to write qt:static-method-name instead, use cl-smoke rather than CommonQt. It has CLOS integration, symbol frobbing, etc. 11:19:59 Neither approach is "better" than the other, but different users will prefer different styles and implementation choices. 11:20:19 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2C95C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:29 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2C95C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 11:20:32 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 11:21:02 think Qt DSL. (qt class-name static-method-name arg ...), a hypothetical QT macro resolves class-name -> ClassName and static-method-name -> staticMethodName. 11:21:15 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 11:21:44 Right. You can implement such a macro trivially on top of either CommonQt or cl-smoke. 11:30:23 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 11:32:01 Adlai, paktahn-64 package is active, thank you! 11:35:35 -!- derekv [i=ybxxhbox@c-76-112-240-178.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:35:41 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2F559.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:41 lpolzer: no problem. Thank you for paktahn! 11:35:41 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2C95C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 11:38:36 Guthur [i=c13db416@gateway/web/freenode/x-juwniivpyorihrmv] has joined #lisp 11:42:01 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has joined #lisp 11:43:55 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 11:47:01 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:47:17 mathrick [n=mathrick@130.226.70.177] has joined #lisp 11:47:45 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:48:35 vtz [n=user@95-42-24-108.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 11:54:14 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:55:44 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:22 -!- OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@122.57.27.177] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:03:46 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:02 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118.90.141.113] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:12:18 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp032.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:13:25 htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 12:18:38 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@38.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 12:23:51 -!- fourier [n=user@82.194.224.230] has left #lisp 12:25:05 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.201.190] has joined #lisp 12:28:21 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:31:26 smackarang [n=user@91.190.137.166] has joined #lisp 12:31:44 what was the name of that airline software project in lisp again? 12:31:56 piano 12:32:13 QPX, too. 12:32:29 aerique: http://www.piano.aero/ 12:32:41 thanks 12:32:41 aerique: how egotistical. 12:32:52 sykopomp: you're right, it depends which one he is asking for :) 12:32:54 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:33:18 sykopomp: it's just old age 12:34:06 danlei`: since you're asking for airline you might not be looking for Piano actually 12:34:22 aerique: that's more "airplane" software 12:34:53 *aerique* sighs.. i got the a- sequence hardwired apparently 12:35:49 hehehe 12:41:13 -!- danlei` [n=user@pD9E2F559.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:42:24 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@nttkyo427107.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:43:21 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 12:47:31 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 12:47:59 mnl [n=mnl@pD9E6F943.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:44 arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 12:49:34 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:23 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:50:32 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:51:33 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 12:54:57 This is just showing my lack of knowledge but it still surprised me: adding an (inline ...) form to a declare form which already had a (speed 3) optimisation improves the speed even more. 12:55:30 (of a function in SBCL 1.0.31) 12:55:44 Calling a function has a certain overhead 12:56:02 which you can avoid if the function is inlined 12:56:07 tcr: I know but I just assumed (speed 3) would inline them 12:56:21 aerique: did you have (debug 0) too? 12:56:30 Adlai: yes 12:56:53 interesting. I'd expect implementations to inline functions at that point. 12:57:31 although actually, inlining changes semantics because redefinition doesn't change an already-compiled call to the function... so I guess it makes sense to only inline when it's explicitly called for. 12:58:09 Adlai: yeah, i happy i tried it since my assumptions aren't worth a penny :) 12:58:39 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:59:29 How would one go about having instances of arbitrary classes print readably like structures usually do? (I'm thinking it may involve defining a print-object on standard-class and maybe some MOP trickery) 13:00:09 ljames: do you mean individual instances of the class, or all instances? 13:00:29 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:32 ljames defining print-object works pretty well 13:00:54 you just define it for you specific class 13:01:01 well, it would be interesting if it could be doable on all instances, but I could settle on specializing print-object on a single superclass 13:01:01 my question would have been: do you mean an individual class, or all standard-classes? 13:01:07 if you mean all instances, then (assuming you've come up with a readable syntax for the objects) just define a print-object method that prints that syntax. 13:01:40 What I've been using for my classes is a print-object method writing out #.(make-the-object :slot1 foo :slot2 foo) 13:02:16 It's not so easy in case of back and circular references 13:02:35 Also, you probably want to specialize on make-load-form as well 13:03:21 tcr: hmm, doesn't the printer handle that? 13:03:47 Only if you use pprint-logical-block, and I'm not sure about details 13:04:23 anyway, see the method on PRINT-OBJECT, and PRETTY-PRINT-NODE, SLOTS-FOR-PRINT-OBJECT in cxml-stp/node.lisp for my approach 13:04:46 Perhaps it'd make sense something on the line of (format nil "#.~S" (make-load-form object)), but all that would need careful analysis 13:05:33 thanks, I'll look at that 13:05:47 But perhaps ljames is rather looking for one of the serialization libs 13:06:56 no, I wasn't planning on using it for serialization purposes 13:06:57 -!- Guthur [i=c13db416@gateway/web/freenode/x-juwniivpyorihrmv] has quit ["Page closed"] 13:07:29 Have you activates presentations in Slime? 13:07:33 yes 13:07:43 I use SLIME's Inspector quite often 13:08:20 but I thought it might be nice if I could view some objects in a similar way to how I can view structures 13:08:32 yeah that's true 13:08:34 Where does SLIME get information on how to indent various macros? 13:08:42 It doesn't indent define-modify-macro correctly. 13:09:18 M-x find-library cl-indent 13:09:24 tcr: thanks. 13:09:42 -!- mnl [n=mnl@pD9E6F943.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 13:11:12 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:18 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:31:01 frodef [n=ffj@226.80-202-87.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:56 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:35:20 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:36:42 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:36:44 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 13:39:02 setheus [n=setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:04 amaron [n=amaron@93.86.161.198] has joined #lisp 13:44:54 sunwukong [n=vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:47:43 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 13:53:07 xan [n=xan@dhcp-18-111-36-146.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 13:55:06 lpolzer: the x86_64 version of paktahn is apparently corrupted. 13:55:16 salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:26 sykopomp, wrong checksum? 13:55:46 lpolzer: yup, checksum failed. 13:56:05 leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:56:13 damn 13:56:28 Adlai, want to give it another try? 13:56:50 I may be gettig haxed, of course :) 13:56:50 sykopomp: where are you updating from? 13:57:05 Adlai: the viridian-project repo. 13:57:25 lpolzer: I can run 'pacman -U paktahn-0.8.1-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.gz' and it installs fine, and runs fine, and it's the same file I sent you. 13:57:47 what's the md5 or sha1 of your local file? 13:58:12 b7d2c0860fafab99f4cfe2ecc65237e66dbf2b84 sha1 13:58:21 bae4ebe686868af6821817419010a3ed md5 13:58:34 hmm, those are the numbers I get too 13:58:56 weird. 13:59:18 where does pacman get them? 14:00:31 maybe you need to update the checksums in another place? 14:00:39 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@wsip-70-167-159-196.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:07 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:04:50 I've just checked the db file, it also sports the correct md5sum 14:04:57 not sure where the problem is 14:05:07 odd 14:05:22 *Adlai* is trying to install through the [paktahn] repo, too. 14:05:31 *sykopomp* tries raw pacman. 14:05:33 eh, I can't download the file 14:05:54 now it says I'm forbidden... 14:06:03 error: failed retrieving file 'paktahn-0.8.1-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.gz' from viridian-project.de : Forbidden :( 14:06:07 lpolzer: error: failed retrieving file 'paktahn-0.8.1-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.gz' from viridian-project.de : Forbidden 14:06:08 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:17 sykopomp: great minds fail alike! 14:07:07 fixed 14:07:08 thanks 14:07:17 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-57-73.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:08:27 oh, lpolzer, I have a very small addition to the pkgbuild (one line) 14:08:43 what needs to be changed? 14:09:24 I disabled local configs in the build process 14:09:37 lpolzer: wonderful. Worked. What was the problem? 14:09:42 my .sbclrc for example loads some files, and it choked when I tried to build paktahn 14:10:36 sykopomp, permission 600 14:10:40 ah 14:10:52 I guess mutt uses a pretty strict umask for saving attachments 14:11:17 lpolzer: worked for me too. 14:11:50 oh, what is redline6561's repo? I'd like to add it to my remotes too 14:12:00 Adlai, so you suggest adding --no-userinit ?? 14:12:10 sorry, only one question mark was meant to be there. 14:12:21 lpolzer: what's wrong with multiple question marks??? 14:12:30 and yes, I added --no-userinit --no-sysinit 14:12:50 I like them too, actually!!1!11 14:12:54 http://gitorious.org/~redline6561/paktahn/paktahn-dev 14:13:39 Adlai, do you think --no-sysinit is really required? 14:14:00 lpolzer: who knows? Better be safe. 14:14:28 maybe somebody puts all their configs as root? 14:14:34 :( 14:14:52 well, let's add it and see who complains, if anyone 14:15:37 I doubt anybody would complain... in my case, it helped. 14:16:25 I had asdf-binary-locations loaded from there, and for some reason it choked on that when it tried to build paktahn. 14:21:08 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:21:42 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:23:13 pdelgallego [n=pdelgall@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:24 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:24:56 lpolzer: also... why are there two sets of sha1/md5 sums in the pkgbuild? 14:25:51 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:27:37 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:27:40 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:48 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:36:40 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 14:37:31 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:38:59 -!- vtz [n=user@95-42-24-108.btc-net.bg] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:39:10 vtz [n=user@95-42-24-108.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 14:39:14 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 14:40:41 ejs [n=eugen@99-11-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:16 -!- vtz [n=user@95-42-24-108.btc-net.bg] has left #lisp 14:41:39 hello 14:42:08 is it possible to use &rest parameters in generic functions? 14:42:16 hello ol3``` 14:42:30 clhs defgeneric 14:42:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defgen.htm 14:42:56 yes, but not specialize in them 14:43:22 s/in/on/ 14:43:53 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 14:43:58 clhs 7.6.4 14:43:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_fd.htm 14:44:07 i see, thank you 14:45:02 May I ask anyone for assistance? I'm suppose to write my-let* using macros, so I did this: http://pastebin.com/m6bb9cfdd and It doesn't work. 14:45:44 clhs macroexpand-1 14:45:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mexp_.htm 14:45:54 use this to debug your macro 14:46:03 or C-c C-m in slime 14:46:47 Douglish: also, use lisppaste: 14:46:49 lisppaste: url? 14:46:50 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 14:48:14 Douglish: one way to do it is to write my-let and then write my-let* to expand into my-let forms. 14:49:10 e.g. (my-let* ((foo 2) (bar foo))) => (my-let ((foo 2)) (mylet ((bar foo)))) 14:49:30 Do you even need to write my-let ? 14:50:05 Douglish: an advantage of ol3```'s approach is that you can bind the symbol &OPTIONAL with it. If you use lambda, you might run into some trouble. 14:50:25 -!- erg_ [n=erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:50:29 erg [n=erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:33 what's on that paste is a broken LET, not LET* 14:50:36 lpolzer: please pull my master branch 14:51:00 Adlai: you should name your master branch "finger" 14:51:16 serichsen: been there, done that :) 14:52:29 apropos, does building let out of lambda handle special variables? 14:52:38 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@wsip-70-167-159-196.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:52:40 yes 14:58:47 egoz [n=egoz@125.166.183.158] has joined #lisp 14:59:16 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-69-47.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:11 milanj [n=milan@93.86.187.2] has joined #lisp 15:03:12 fare: Thoughtful journal entry. Convinces me even more strongly to stay single threaded. 15:03:16 Adlai, pushed. 15:03:25 Adlai: Unfortunatelly, we have to write it using lambda. 15:03:42 Douglish: ok, it can be done. 15:04:18 first, you need to decide on the form you want a call to my-let* to macroexpand to. 15:04:40 Does this: ,(mapcar #'first definitions) what I think? That it return list of symbols and then it's expanded, right? 15:04:53 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 15:05:02 let's cheat! ((lambda (&aux (a 1) (b (+ a 2))) (list a b))) 15:05:18 lpolzer: got it. Thanks! I now have a commit in paktahn :) 15:05:54 Douglish: did you make macroexpansion? 15:06:20 (May I paste here one line?) 15:06:22 Adlai, congrats on your first one! :) 15:06:34 I hope more will follow 15:06:48 Douglish: one line, yes, but go to lisppaste for longer pastes. 15:07:01 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:07:39 lpolzer: I have a bunch of local commits for the CCL port, they're just messy and out-of-date with the current master by now. 15:07:49 (defmacro my-let* (definitions &body body) `((lambda (&aux ,@definitions) ,@body))) and you're done 15:08:12 dl [n=user@dhcp04.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:08:56 Thanks for the macroexpand, I've found problem. 15:09:37 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:11:26 Adlai, I see 15:11:29 time for a merge? 15:12:08 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:12:10 lpolzer: I haven't pushed the branch yet, so I'll rebase this locally at some point and make it presentable :) 15:12:58 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:26 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 15:15:10 locci [n=nes@93.37.201.190] has joined #lisp 15:15:53 sounds good 15:19:40 what problem is &aux supposed to solve? Just to let you indent a little less by pulling an initial let up into the lambda list? 15:19:41 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:19:59 ryepup: there was a discussion about this on c.l.l very recently 15:20:10 for the most part, it's just for aesthetic reasons 15:20:22 however, there are at least two cases where it makes a difference: 15:20:25 ryepup: not having to have a LET for small functions. 15:20:44 one is for BOA constructors 15:20:51 clhs 3.4.6 15:20:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_df.htm 15:21:19 the other is for getting declarations to go in the right place in macros which expand to function definitions. 15:21:22 how do you know the chapter numbers so fast? 15:21:45 interesting, reading through 3.4.6 and c.l.l 15:22:20 serichsen: I'm writing code right now that involves structures, so I have clhs defstruct open, which mentions 3.4.6. I don't know any chapter numbers by heart (yet...) 15:22:36 Adlai: that's boa lambda lists, &aux is also not only in boa lambda lists 15:22:56 -!- KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [] 15:23:16 stassats: I know; I didn't say otherwise. But boa lambda lists are one place where it makes a concrete difference. 15:23:32 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:23:38 but it doesn't justify usage of &aux in other places 15:23:48 *serichsen* fondly remembers laughing for days after having read the first time about "boa constructors" 15:24:35 stassats: probably. I haven't looked at the function-defining-macro example in c.l.l closely, but other than that, I think it is clearer to use let. 15:25:33 isn't &aux more like a let*? 15:25:40 -!- nicktastic is now known as `nicktastic 15:26:36 -!- ol3``` [n=user@82.113.106.87] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:26:42 yeah. I guess it's clearer -and- more correct to use a let*, then :) 15:26:48 ol3``` [n=user@82.113.106.87] has joined #lisp 15:27:48 -!- `nicktastic is now known as nicktastic 15:27:53 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:27:55 stassats: (lambda (foo &aux (foo (ensure-foo foo))) is self-documenting; ensure-foo could be (or foo 42), for example, or (find-class foo), etc. 15:29:39 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:30:02 (foo) (let ((foo (ensure-foo foo))) ...) is self-documenting as much 15:30:22 -!- ol3``` [n=user@82.113.106.87] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:30:32 ol3``` [n=user@82.113.106.87] has joined #lisp 15:30:39 ``Erik [i=Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:28 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.20.37] has joined #lisp 15:31:36 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.201.190] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:33:02 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:29 stassats: not quite, consider lambda-list parsers (e.g., for reference doc generation) 15:33:47 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:34:06 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.72.20] has joined #lisp 15:37:31 stassats: &aux is nice in a few cases where you want a very short form, without having to resort to LET 15:37:42 obviously, its use is pretty limited and rare :) 15:37:56 [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.2] has joined #lisp 15:39:00 danlei [n=user@pD9E2F559.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:52 Guthur [i=c13dbf29@gateway/web/freenode/x-tlsthnffgeyqltcj] has joined #lisp 15:40:56 -!- amaron [n=amaron@93.86.161.198] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:41:12 sykopomp: in code size competitions? 15:41:54 stassats: no. michaelw's example is pretty good -- when you're using lambda, it's nice to compress the code footprint a bit. 15:41:57 &aux is nice for that. 15:42:18 there's also the example with function-defining macros 15:42:30 I'd rather have &aux than (lambda (foo) (let ((foo (ensure-foo)))) ...) 15:43:25 it's not all that significant, and the cases where it's useful are few and far between. 15:44:26 specifically: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/6f82d6732fc1d457 15:45:05 you'd need to do a lot of painful processing to avoid that otherwise. 15:46:09 sykopomp: I quite enjoy writing (defun foo (string) (let ((string (string string))) ...)) 15:46:27 Adlai: a lot? alexandria:parse-body 15:46:41 fe[nl]ix: as do I. 15:46:57 fe[nl]ix: I'm talking about the case where you have an inlined lambda. I -don't- like lambdas taking up too much space. 15:47:07 fe[nl]ix: and (from McCLIM) (defmethod graft ((graft graft)) graft) 15:47:19 and LET looks awkward when it's shoved into the same line. 15:47:49 beach: praise be lisp-n 15:47:56 indeed! 15:48:08 beach: a mcclim question: is there a way to prevent scrolling of a pane while printing to it? 15:48:30 stassats: thank you for pointing that out. 15:48:48 stassats: Not sure! You can certainly set the scroll position manually. 15:49:29 because printing 800 lines take 2 seconds 15:55:33 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229145045.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 15:55:44 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:32 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ooxydatfruabwgmj] has joined #lisp 15:58:45 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 15:59:17 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.231.22] has quit ["off"] 16:00:08 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:01:54 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:02:07 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 16:10:34 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:10:41 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:11:12 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-19-43.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:12:06 -!- Guthur [i=c13dbf29@gateway/web/freenode/x-tlsthnffgeyqltcj] has quit ["Page closed"] 16:12:06 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:15:14 -!- ejs [n=eugen@99-11-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:18:29 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [] 16:18:42 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 16:20:52 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:21:22 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:21:30 stassats: Care to add a M-x slime-compilation-log command? 16:24:37 roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 16:27:37 -!- male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:28:00 male_terran [n=KVIrc@98.162.161.191] has joined #lisp 16:30:53 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:44:06 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:45:01 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 16:49:05 -!- dl [n=user@dhcp04.hpc.unm.edu] has left #lisp 16:53:17 http://paste.lisp.org/display/43529 16:53:26 why does the metaclass error happen 16:53:34 -!- male_terran [n=KVIrc@98.162.161.191] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:53:58 male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:25 xristos: shouldn't rectangle be a standard-object? :) 16:54:40 same error with standard-object 16:54:46 the example is out of amop 16:55:20 -!- male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:55:41 male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:54 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:56:04 mop validate-superclass 16:57:12 -!- ``Erik [i=Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:57:42 so it has to be explicit that standard-class and counted-class are compatible ? 16:57:43 , you can see that you must define a new method. 16:57:44 could someone give me a brief example how to create a funcallable class? (or a pointer to where something like this is described) 16:58:06 even though the 2nd is a subclass of the 1st 16:58:20 ``Erik [i=Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:14 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:34 prip [n=_prip@87.11.82.195] has joined #lisp 16:59:40 danlei: inherit from funcallable-standard-object and have funcallable-standard-class as the :metaclass. 16:59:42 danlei: (let ((instance (make-instance 'funcallable-standard-object))) 16:59:42 (set-funcallable-instance-function instance (lambda () (print "foo"))) 16:59:42 (funcall instance)) 17:00:03 thanks! 17:00:39 nha [n=prefect@85.4.174.31] has joined #lisp 17:04:43 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 17:06:23 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-206-5-240.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:55 hi worlds, i'm confused with a simple problem, i'll paste for some help, thanks 17:07:01 salva pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88542 17:07:48 my prblem is the unbound output that i get in the macro generated code 17:08:38 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:08:57 I predict before I see the code: needs more commas 17:09:22 nope 17:09:36 salva: macro expansions have the lexenv where they are used, not where they are defined 17:10:06 *sykopomp* wonders what the purpose of naming a macro p] is. 17:10:11 (note that what you're attempting to do here can't work with independent compilation...) 17:10:15 the output is used in the generated function not in macro 17:10:32 it is in the expansion, the (format t ...) 17:10:46 that expansion is compiled/evaluated in the env where the macro is used 17:10:55 bindings around the defmacro are completely irrelevanrt 17:11:11 but output without coma ? 17:11:38 is evaluated in the generated function 17:12:22 and this generated function is inside the let 17:13:36 the p] macro name is for 17:13:52 um, no it isn't 17:13:59 danlei pasted "funcallable" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88543 17:14:05 the only things in your let are the defin and defmacro 17:14:13 and neither one of these contains any *use* of p] 17:14:15 ska80 [n=user@124.157.196.166] has joined #lisp 17:14:16 so, this would be the "right" way? 17:14:53 yes thanks 17:14:54 (without the funcall in initialize-instance) 17:15:03 i understand my problem 17:15:27 i need execute p] inside this context 17:15:52 danlei: why funcall #'set-funcallable-instance-function ? 17:15:53 you cannot 17:16:09 yes, just saw it, unneccessary 17:16:17 salva: you can, however, make p] expand to a use of a closure which was defined in this context (environment) 17:16:22 well generator-name will be a function and p] is used inside this functions 17:17:01 thanks 17:17:22 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:17:36 that won't work in compiled code, though -- you'd have to do something else entirely 17:17:56 generally a macro-expansion closing over unique state is not a good idea... you would be better off using a global variable if that's what you mean. 17:18:00 -!- Retardedpope1 [n=Retarded@c-66-56-9-145.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:18:00 danlei annotated #88543 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88543#1 17:19:01 -!- male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:19:23 male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:45 im using p] because i'm trying do some utilities for walk datastructures and print code, my idea is o] get objects in the context a] get atrributes in the context r] for relations etc p] for printing 17:19:51 danlei: good 17:20:34 saw the funcall after pressing the button (as usual) :). thanks again 17:21:26 -!- ska80 [n=user@124.157.196.166] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:22:06 ejs [n=eugen@95.135.104.3] has joined #lisp 17:23:16 hm 17:23:26 I thought the lambda-list for initialize-instance was supposed to be &key 17:23:32 danlei: did that code actually work? 17:24:44 sykopomp: it works 17:24:51 sykopomp: yes 17:24:55 strange. Genfun lambda lists still confuse me 17:25:02 sykopomp: on ccl at least 17:25:05 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:25:07 in any case, you can get rid of the declaration by using a plain &key instead of &rest. 17:25:24 I see, ty 17:26:32 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-126.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:26:32 LiamH1 [n=nobody@pool-72-75-100-210.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:27 danlei annotated #88543 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88543#2 17:28:23 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-69-47.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:28:48 sykopomp: why would you ask if it worked, is there something suspicious? 17:29:08 danlei: no, I just always get confused wrt lambda-list congruence and CLOS 17:29:15 ok 17:29:22 I'm used to just using &key with genfuns that have keywords. 17:29:36 I see 17:29:39 I should know better, but I didn't realize &rest rest would be enough to make the lambda-list congruent... 17:30:56 -!- xan [n=xan@dhcp-18-111-36-146.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:31:35 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/07_fd.htm #3 explains it, of course. 17:33:11 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:00 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:36:10 -!- ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 17:38:35 milanj- [n=milan@79.101.197.234] has joined #lisp 17:42:21 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:45:35 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:45:44 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.187.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:46:31 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:59:31 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:00:25 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-27-177.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:01:11 -!- ejs [n=eugen@95.135.104.3] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:12:07 saikat [n=saikat@rescomp-09-132118.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 18:14:16 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.20.37] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:14:37 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.20.37] has joined #lisp 18:16:29 sellout [n=greg@99.132.195.217] has joined #lisp 18:23:01 -!- ol3``` [n=user@82.113.106.87] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:25:49 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.20.37] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:25:53 tcr: ping 18:26:08 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.20.37] has joined #lisp 18:26:42 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.20.37] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:28:37 yes? 18:30:38 tcr: if I M-. on sb-kernel:redefinition-warning, I get to the definition of cl:define-condition 18:30:41 is this a known bug ? 18:32:11 that's rather an sbcl's issue 18:33:09 yeah, I was referring to that :P 18:34:38 HET4 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:35:00 Yes it's known 18:35:40 I forgot the reason, though. 18:35:54 mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:59 I know I investigated it once in past because it bugged me as annoying, too. 18:36:50 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:36:50 -!- mattrepl_ is now known as mattrepl 18:36:56 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:37:29 i wonder how hard it'd be to properly find location inside a PROGN 18:39:15 location of what? 18:40:10 (progn (defun foo ())) location of #'foo is (progn 18:40:14 stassats: Not hard. 18:40:36 At the moment, SBCL only stores the toplevel number in such cases even though it has a more precise path available 18:41:53 ccl does it right 18:41:54 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:42:45 I'm not sure that using reader-macros for source-location tracking is a good idea 18:43:05 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:43:20 what do you mean? 18:44:25 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:44:45 Dunno that's what helmut eller said 18:45:25 -!- sykopomp [n=root@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:45:37 nipra [n=nipra@122.170.20.37] has joined #lisp 18:46:15 sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:46:45 -!- saikat [n=saikat@rescomp-09-132118.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 18:48:34 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:49:29 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:49:30 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:49:49 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 18:49:59 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:50:01 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:53:41 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:53:42 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 18:54:16 ASau [n=user@85.141.213.171] has joined #lisp 18:54:38 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:24 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:55:32 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 18:56:55 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.161.40.222] has joined #lisp 18:56:56 -!- ASau [n=user@85.141.213.171] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:57:27 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:57:45 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.161.40.222] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 19:02:02 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:04:14 jsnell: I think you agreed to take a look at my sb-introspect:function-type patch 19:04:33 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:09:35 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:12:22 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:12:42 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:16:06 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 19:16:41 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.161.40.222] has joined #lisp 19:17:32 -!- smackarang [n=user@91.190.137.166] has left #lisp 19:22:22 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-19-43.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:22:22 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:22:26 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:22:47 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-6-114.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:22:48 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:24:48 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-16-197.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:24:54 Good evening! 19:25:07 It is very quiet here today. 19:26:10 everybody's busy writing lisp code 19:26:26 Good thing! 19:27:13 legumbre [n=user@190.135.44.124] has joined #lisp 19:27:35 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:28:19 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-109-82.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:28:42 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:29:11 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 19:29:20 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:30:33 waterpie [n=waterpie@athedsl-323357.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:30:40 hi all 19:30:47 Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:31:00 hello waterpie 19:31:51 can someone pls explain, why: (SETQ A (CONS '(1 2) '(11 22))) is ((1 2) 11 22) and not ((1 2) (11 22)) ? also why (cdr a) is (11 22) (exected), and (nth 1 a) is 11 (unexpected) ? 19:31:56 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:32:31 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:32:42 waterpie: the use of conses as lists is not symmetric 19:33:07 waterpie: Sure, that could be done. However, if you knew elementary Lisp, that wouldn't be a problem. 19:33:08 Where's pjb's ascii-drawing bot? 19:33:43 waterpie: when you call CONS you specify the car and cdr of the cons made. Considered as a list, the car of a cons is *an element* of the list. the cdr of a cons is *the rest* of the list. 19:33:50 waterpie: NTH begins at 0, so (NTH 1 a) is A's second element 19:33:59 Therefore (cons '1 '(2 3)) is (1 2 3) 19:34:14 Er. (cons '1 '(2 3)) evaluates to (1 2 3) 19:34:52 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.23.144] has joined #lisp 19:35:39 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:36:05 waterpie: According to the logs, you have come here for more than three years. Not knowing what CONS does in that amount of time is, er, a bit surprising. 19:36:05 ASau [n=user@85.141.213.171] has joined #lisp 19:36:48 waterpie: Perhaps it is time to read a book on CL, such as PCL? 19:37:06 minion: tell waterpie about PCL! 19:37:09 waterpie: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:38:40 What is the point that ASDF catches compilation errors just to signal its own error? 19:40:09 the point is (or at least, was) that you would know what class of error to catch 19:40:33 and that it would be the same class whether the failed component was lisp, c, java, whatever else 19:40:44 dan_b: Hey, long time no see! What's up? 19:40:44 kpreid: i thought that cons is basically 2 pointers? in my example, pointing to two lists? 19:40:57 waterpie: You are correct. 19:41:07 All of your examples are consistent with that. 19:41:08 That kind of makes sense, thank you, dan_b. I just wish there was something like Java's getStackTrace in ANSI. 19:41:30 waterpie: However, when *interpreted as a list* a cons's two pointers have *DIFFERENT MEANINGS*. 19:41:31 -!- ASau [n=user@85.141.213.171] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:41:34 sepult`` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-74-91.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:41:49 ASau [n=user@85.141.213.171] has joined #lisp 19:42:00 beach: as usual, not had a lot of time for hacking on lisp lately 19:42:28 but this irc window has been sitting burbling to itself for a week until I happened to see something I knew the answer to ;-) 19:43:18 dan_b: Goes for most of us, I suspect. Glad to hear you are making progress on some points. 19:43:23 clhs 22.1.3.5 19:43:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_ace.htm 19:43:41 "Printing Lists and Conses" 19:43:46 kpreid: so to get what i expect, ie 2 pointers, i should only use car and cdr? 19:43:47 -!- ASau [n=user@85.141.213.171] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:43:55 ??? 19:44:00 ol3``` [n=user@82.113.106.83] has joined #lisp 19:44:00 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:44:02 dan_b: Too bad we don't meet more often! The previous times have been very productive! 19:44:21 waterpie: the problem is not with the contents, it is with what you see printed. the printer, whenever possible, interprets lists as conses. 19:44:38 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@87.78.170.19] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:44:43 basically, there's no lists, only conses 19:44:49 NIL is an exception 19:45:15 dan_b: next ELS will be in Lisbon 19:46:01 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.72.20] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:46:23 kpreid: Isn't it the other way around? The printer usually interprets conses as lists? 19:46:36 Er. Sorry. 19:46:39 That's what I meant to say. 19:46:54 ol3```` [n=user@82.113.121.159] has joined #lisp 19:46:59 astalla [n=astalla@93-36-228-73.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:47:32 dan_b: I agree with fe[nl]ix; you should show up in Lisbon! 19:48:01 fe[nl]ix: I guess you haven't met dan_b, right? 19:49:18 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:49:38 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:49:58 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:51:03 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:52:12 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:52:42 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:52:47 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:54:46 -!- ol3``` [n=user@82.113.106.83] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:54:47 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:55:18 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:56:39 superjoe [n=superjoe@149-169-140-117.nat.asu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:56:50 is this really how you're supposed to do hash tables in lisp? 19:56:50 in another way, why: (listp (cdr '(1 2))) is T and (listp (car '(1 2))) is nil ? 19:56:51 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node154.html 19:57:02 seems... ungraceful 19:57:10 well, 1 ain't list inded 19:57:21 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:57:28 -!- male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:57:33 beach: no, I haven't 19:57:42 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:57:50 male_terran [n=KVIrc@98.162.161.191] has joined #lisp 19:57:52 waterpie: '(1 2) is (cons 1 (cons 2 nil)) 19:57:54 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:58:12 -!- male_terran [n=KVIrc@98.162.161.191] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:58:15 so, car is 1 and cdr is another cons 19:58:20 superjoe: there are other ways as well, see alexandria:plist-hash-table 19:58:34 male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:43 superjoe: but in general that is the way hashtables work 19:58:49 ok 19:59:08 think I might go back to python ;) 20:00:45 -!- HET4 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:00:46 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:01:02 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:02:30 There are reader-macros that provide {...} as literal syntax for hash-tables. 20:02:43 hmm 20:03:06 I think it's a omission that MAKE-HASH-TABLE does not take a :initial-contents parameter. 20:03:42 when it comes to CL-as-specified-by-itself hash tables ARE rather second class, not having such niceties as literal syntax, construct-from-elements fuinctions, and so on. But CL has lots of flaws like that; get alexandria and so on and stop worrying. 20:03:49 smackarang [n=user@91.190.137.166] has joined #lisp 20:03:51 fe[nl]ix: He is a very nice and smart guy that you should meet> Lisbon would be perfect! 20:04:07 ok 20:04:19 What happens in Lisbon? 20:04:35 tic: ELS 2010 20:04:36 beach: you don't need to convince me. I'll be there :) 20:05:05 Oh. 20:05:05 fe[nl]ix: Right! I am trying to convince dan_b! 20:05:31 -!- male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 20:06:17 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:06:31 fe[nl]ix: speaking of which, our house is yours from December 18 to January 16. More if you like but we need the bedroom when we are there. 20:06:42 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:06:54 -!- sellout [n=greg@99.132.195.217] has quit [] 20:07:50 Is the date for ELS2010 set yet? 20:08:06 tic: ELS is great; Lisbon is great. No need to hesitate! 20:08:10 :-) 20:08:12 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:54 tic: I forget whether we fixed the dates. Maybe not, but it would be in May I think. 20:09:08 beach, ah, nice! 20:09:09 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:09:38 beach: one month will suffice 20:09:42 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:09:47 FareWell [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:51 -!- nipra [n=nipra@122.170.20.37] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:12:05 fe[nl]ix: where will you relocate? running from the winter? :) 20:13:10 attila_lendvai_, what's the next urgent thing for xcvb, according to you? 20:13:18 attila_lendvai_: bordeaux 20:13:29 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 20:13:30 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:13:43 rvirding [n=chatzill@h52n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:46 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:13:49 fe[nl]ix: Don't count on it. People get attached to this place and they stay. 20:13:59 -!- attila_lendvai is now known as Guest3158 20:14:06 fe[nl]ix, do you think IOlib should refrain from just adopting libev / libevent ? 20:14:32 andrew5 [n=andrew@cpc2-hatf4-0-0-cust79.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:45 beach, like the wisigoths -- or latter incarnations of visiting goths 20:15:09 hello everyone, I'm studying Lisp/DrScheme, and I am really struggling 20:15:27 andrew5, for DrScheme specific help go to #scheme 20:15:35 FareWell: besides seeing this damn pain at the place of my past tonsils... the equivalent of a simple (asdf:load-system :foo), which is there already as far as i understand... no? 20:15:50 (xcvbm:bnl "foo") 20:16:10 or the long version (xcvb-master:build-and-load "foo") 20:16:21 FareWell: my fondness for autarchy won't allow me to do that 20:16:22 -!- andrew5 [n=andrew@cpc2-hatf4-0-0-cust79.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:16:32 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:16:35 s/seeing/saying goodbye to/ 20:16:52 -!- Guest3158 is now known as attila_lendvai 20:16:54 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:16:56 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:16:57 autarchy? Go live in the mountains raising sheep, like Grothendieck! 20:17:06 FareWell: having to use the C lib is already unpleasant 20:17:22 FareWell: don't tempt me 20:17:36 what about taking libev sources and porting them wholesale? 20:17:59 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:18:11 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:18:52 FareWell: that's what I did with libevent initially 20:18:54 -!- pdelgallego [n=pdelgall@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:19:06 ok 20:19:31 there are plenty of things to do in XCVB, but none of them is either short or pleasant anymore... 20:19:52 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:20:16 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:20:36 I guess a standalone (no Make) backend is not far on the list 20:21:17 and/or something to do "fake" runs and compute how much time I may hope to win depending on my choice of evaluation strategy 20:22:00 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:22:22 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:23:55 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:24:31 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:24:34 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:24:37 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 20:26:20 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:26:39 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:27:05 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:27:13 -!- FareWell is now known as Fare 20:27:35 FareWell [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:15 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:15 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:29:42 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:32:09 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-57-73.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:32:17 -!- sepult`` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-74-91.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:33:48 saikat_ [n=saikat@rescomp-09-132118.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:33:48 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:34:17 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:35:00 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-109-82.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 20:36:36 *ol3````* is wondeing why lisworks personal is shipping without asdf 20:37:15 -!- ol3```` is now known as ol3 20:37:45 ol3: Yes, I think so 20:38:03 ol3: they hate us for our freedom? 20:38:19 so you can download the latest? 20:38:38 Fare: the latest asdf? 20:38:44 yes, 1.366 20:38:51 directly from git 20:39:29 it seems like i have to 20:39:54 fare: i vote for the no-make backend... :) 20:39:56 and then you can enjoy the latest features 20:40:17 attila_lendvai: no-make backend? 20:40:29 attila_lendvai, your wish may very well be granted... I think a real backend it's on the shortest path to the fake backend, anyway 20:40:34 ol3, to XCVB 20:40:36 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:40:59 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:41:25 I may end up with a traversal mixin that is parametrized by something making it fake or real 20:41:39 *Fare* wonders if anyone ever gave a look at xcvb internals 20:42:04 thanks, i will lock at it 20:42:06 .oO( is 1.366 the CVS file revision of asdf.lisp in cclan? if so, how does that fit with asdf being in git now? ) 20:42:22 lichtblau, cclan is no longer authoritative. git is. 20:42:37 lichtblau: It's manually incremented now, or something 20:42:51 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:43:14 lichtblau: discussion take place at asdf-devel@c-l.net since a few months. It's available from gmane. 20:43:26 there are so many package systems in cl... 20:43:56 yeah, I was just confused/amused by the CVSish looking version 20:44:09 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:44:31 ol3: ASDF is the one to use right now, unless you have non-average needs. 20:45:22 ol3: XCVB has promise (I hope). mudballs is dead. Other things (asdf-install, clbuild, libcl, desire, etc.) are layered above asdf 20:45:49 Fare: there is also mk:defsystem and others 20:46:06 mk:defsystem is only for legacy. Not to be used for new stuff. 20:46:24 Fare: I'm always wondering why there isn't one that simply map package names to directories and files. 20:46:28 lichtblau, well, the version numbers are in continuity with cvs indeed 20:46:39 ol3: xcvb kind of does that 20:47:11 but in a way that offers backwards compatibility with the current CL way of doing things 20:47:23 at the price of a search step 20:47:52 (for which I use find, because SBCL is too damn slow at searching for **/build.xcvb) 20:47:58 on windows i asdf searches the directories anyways 20:48:29 *ol3* never undersand how to make a symlink on win 20:48:37 ol3: don't try 20:48:49 btw the xcvb readme contains hints on how to use asdf, too 20:49:02 FARE; even without resolving to truenames? 20:49:18 michaelw, even without 20:49:32 hmm, why? 20:49:59 var *subsystem-search-function* or something 20:50:02 maybe solved in latestest sbcl? external-formats are partially to be blamed. I fear that so is repeatedly scanning for / 20:50:07 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:50:39 i.e. looks like the implementation is needlessly parsing/unparsing pathnames 20:51:55 maybe it would help to cache the locations of the .asd files, instead of search the tree every time a system is searched... 20:52:16 -!- astalla [n=astalla@93-36-228-73.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Sto andando via"] 20:52:45 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:03 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-126.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:54:32 btw, does anyone has any idea why (my) emacs sees ctrl as C- , alt as M- , but doesn't do anything with C-M-x ? 20:54:37 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-109-82.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:55:06 Do you happen to use KDE? 20:55:14 waterpie: maybe it's caught by the WM 20:59:09 mishoo: indeed, thanks 21:02:33 http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/sequence-iterators.html -- Please report typographical / grammatical issues, and descriptions that are not illustrive 21:03:02 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:03:53 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:03:59 -!- milanj- [n=milan@79.101.197.234] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:04:10 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 21:04:19 Greetings. 21:05:53 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 21:06:13 Sergio`_ [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has joined #lisp 21:07:52 hey guys 21:07:52 Ralith, memo from lpolzer: doesn't happen here. I always get a good cache on the first run. can you check again? you are using 0.8.1, right? 21:08:09 lpolzer: ping 21:08:12 pkhuong: Here? 21:08:45 sepult [n=buggarag@87.78.74.91] has joined #lisp 21:09:15 Does XCFB handle local libaries, i mean local to a directory or project? 21:09:16 Ralith, I'm close to going to bed... 21:10:06 -!- ampleyfly [n=ampleyfl@stalhein.lysator.liu.se] has quit ["leaving"] 21:10:08 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 21:10:48 With adsf for example I can't have different versions in the same registry of a lib. 21:11:02 lpolzer: I think you misunderstood: the problem occurs when the cache begins good, and is then made outdated by a pacman sync. 21:11:04 mikes` [n=pic@188-220-121-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:11:09 lpolzer: it is then only updated when paktahn is ran as root. 21:11:21 hello 21:11:53 Ralith, I made sure the cache was current, then updated the db 21:11:58 can i use print-object to print the slots specific to a class and then with call-next-method again to print the slots of the superclass without the double << syntax 21:12:02 paktahn updated the cache on the next run 21:12:13 on the run after that it did not 21:12:18 ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.44] has joined #lisp 21:12:27 i can't find anything specific in practical common lisp 21:12:33 mikes`: don't print << 21:12:37 lpolzer: nonononono 21:12:42 lpolzer: the cache has to NOT be current 21:12:51 tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:01 you mean I must start with an all-empty cache? 21:13:22 ..what? 21:13:25 O.o 21:13:42 tcr: you should also export the error signaled by check-sequence-bounds 21:14:01 stassats: i was hoping that there would be a way to detect when in print-unreadable-object dynamic scope 21:14:06 so that the << are omitted 21:14:16 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.23.144] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:14:20 fe[nl]ix: Yes, you're completely right. In fact, that's a FIXME. :-) 21:14:30 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.23.144] has joined #lisp 21:14:45 mikes`: you control the way it prints, you may do anything 21:14:54 -!- nha [n=prefect@85.4.174.31] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:14:59 francogrex [n=user@91.177.143.54] has joined #lisp 21:15:01 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-157-23-181.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:29 lpolzer: that's odd, I just did it again and it didn't happen. 21:15:31 tcr: what does "possibly in reversed order" mean ? 21:15:58 lpolzer: it's been reproduced independently, though. It might be worth note that when this was happening to me, it was *only* core out of sync. 21:16:19 fe[nl]ix: (dosequence (element #(1 2 3) nil :from-end t) (print element)) will print 3,2,1 21:16:24 I'm using defparameter to for example define a vector of values read in from an external file. I feel however I should use defvar. Are they really interchangeable? When is more appropriate to use one rather than the other? 21:16:37 Ralith, it would be good to have a repeatable case for this... 21:16:38 tcr: also, that should be "reverse order" 21:17:01 Hm ok 21:17:16 lpolzer: well it got repeated twice >_> 21:17:17 tcr: the word "possibly" is confusing. either use "definitely in reverse order" or none at all 21:17:24 lpolzer: what files do I need to touch to simulate outdatedness? 21:17:34 will experiment 21:17:44 francogrex: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/variables.html#dynamic-aka-special-variables 21:17:54 they're not interchangeable 21:17:59 gigamonkey [n=user@99.58.30.149] has joined #lisp 21:18:06 Word. 21:18:06 gigamonkey, memo from wgl: Great post. 21:18:06 gigamonkey, memo from dlowe: Your page at http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ says Coders at Work due out next month 21:18:06 gigamonkey, memo from aja: Finally got my copy of "Coders at Work" (suspect Amazon was backed up -- a good thing?) Looks great -- thanks for making it. 21:18:37 Ralith, a simple "sudo touch /var/lib/pacman/X" will be enough, where X is "local" or "sync/DBNAME" 21:18:37 :) 21:18:53 minion: memo for dlowe: Whoops. Thanks. 21:18:54 Remembered. I'll tell dlowe when he/she/it next speaks. 21:19:23 Ralith, and you can of course empty the cache by deleting ~/.paktahn/cache 21:19:45 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:20:13 lpolzer: thanks 21:20:18 wik now if 21:20:26 er 21:20:29 will let you know if I repeat 21:20:50 ravster [n=user@CPE000c41a8878f-CM00195efb5296.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:53 Hello all 21:21:29 "you should use DEFVAR to define variables that will contain data you'd want to keep even if you made a change to the source code that uses the variable" 21:21:45 tcr: why implicit TAGBODY ? 21:22:04 dolist has it 21:22:08 good night everyone 21:22:18 gigamonkey: Got a little mail, there. 21:23:07 I'm having trouble with a macro that I'm trying to make, could someone help me with this? 21:23:11 ravster pasted "macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88553 21:23:15 that's not applicable for me. Then I guess defparameter is better 21:23:18 Adlai: Nice paktahn binaries. Do I get to see the source soon? :) 21:23:29 I'm trying to make a dotimes variant. 21:23:48 francogrex or avoid globals 21:23:55 fe[nl]ix: Ok, I tried to accomodate to your wishes 21:24:07 fe[nl]ix: Do you mean the wording "implicit", or why tagbody at all? 21:24:10 redline6561: That's still just the source from the main repo. I haven't worked much on the CCL port yet. 21:24:14 When I do a macroexpand-1, I keep getting a "*foo* not of type sequence" error 21:24:36 But when I type in (length *foo*) myself, it works perfectly. 21:24:40 Adlai: Ah. Okay. Thanks. 21:24:42 tcr: why tagbody, but stassats cleared that 21:24:56 fe[nl]ix: Yeah it's very useful to skip an iteration 21:25:02 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:25:10 ravster: well, that's troo, *foo* is a symbol at macroexpansion time 21:25:20 oh, s/troo/true/ 21:25:34 fe[nl]ix: I'll be away for a few minutes, but please keep on with your thoughts 21:25:46 Hey, wgl. 21:25:53 Which post were you referring to. 21:25:54 ? 21:26:18 stassats: oh, so I should just put the whole "let" form in the expansion too, instead of out of it? 21:26:25 umm reading about defconstant is rather confusing, i don't like that undefined behaviour bit 21:26:34 ravster: not the whole, just max part 21:27:03 Guthur: why? 21:27:07 Guthur: Defconstant is hardly usable portably on anything else than numbers and characters 21:27:09 stassats: oh, I see 21:27:16 i have two in my software but there is a slight chance they might change in the process of development 21:27:20 Guthur: I advise to ignore it and use defparameter instead 21:27:30 ravster: just remove (length y) 21:27:34 stassats i suppose its unlikely to ever be an actual issue 21:27:34 replace by y 21:27:53 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.129] has joined #lisp 21:27:57 tcr but they are really constants, just might change during dev 21:27:59 gigamonkey: It was your most recent, unless you posted one in the last couple of days. 21:27:59 don't listen to francogrex 21:28:09 francogrex: ... and just put (length ,max) in the expansion then? 21:28:21 gigamonkey: and you got some typo notes in c@w from felideon 21:28:30 wgl: the "testing cred" one then. 21:28:33 wgl: in the logs? 21:28:35 tcr what about lists 21:28:46 stassats: show me that it's wrong 21:28:51 tcr of numbers and strings 21:28:53 jkroon [n=jkroon@c83-254-144-125.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 Guthur: Nope better don't 21:29:05 gigamonkey: yes, testing cred. Let me echo the other stuff to over in c@w 21:29:06 stassats: so I should have one 'let' outside the expansion (because of gensym) and then another inside (due to max)? 21:29:56 Ah, I see it now. Thanks. 21:29:57 tcr kk i didn't actually now about this issue, i had them as defparameters but just changed them today, i think i will switch back, cheers 21:30:38 -!- lpolzer [n=lpolzer@88.73.237.251] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:30:40 stassats annotated #88553 "corrected" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88553#1 21:30:42 gigamonkey liked your post about TTD 21:30:44 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:30:52 tcr: in the DOSEQUENCE section there's a reference to "idx", which isn't mentioned anywhere else 21:31:17 gigamonkey Unit testing in Coders at Work 21:31:20 tcr: and please make a new binding on each iteration. it's much more useful when creating a sequence of closures 21:31:55 stassats: Oh, okay. 21:31:58 Thank you 21:31:59 ravster: for what you need. By replacing like I suggested it works. But stassats must have a reason for advising not listening to me though he's not willing to say it$ 21:32:48 ok, (gensym) i see 21:33:21 tcr: I'd eliminate DOSEQUENCE in favour of just using DOSEQUENCES 21:34:35 (DOTIMES-FROM 5 10 (format t "test")) try this with stassats' version 21:34:38 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-27-177.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:35:12 minion: memo for felideon: Thanks for the c@w errata. 21:35:13 Remembered. I'll tell felideon when he/she/it next speaks. 21:35:23 francogrex: the second argument must be a sequence, though 21:35:36 Guthur: thanks 21:36:00 stassats: thank you for the correction, the macroexpansion now works like I wanted it to. 21:36:09 ok, then it's different, but is that a variant of dotimes (needs comments) 21:36:57 francogrex: I just wanted to make it since dotimes only begins from 0 but I wanted more flexibility in my program. 21:37:13 how would you use it then? 21:37:17 ravster: and you should have its lambda-list as ((x y) &body body) 21:37:20 ... and noticed I was using the full 'do' form instead 21:37:49 (and replace x y with start sequence) 21:37:53 stassats: so that it looks more like dotimes? 21:38:06 good idea, I will change that 21:38:13 dotimes and the like, yes 21:38:48 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:39:10 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:39:28 ravster: why not directly use "do" then instead of defining a new macro? (or even loop for that matter) 21:39:38 I also have a general question when it comes to 'do'. Is it best to not put "(length sequence)" in the end-test? I ask because I don't know if it re-calculates the length at the end of every iteration? 21:40:20 francogrex: I'm currently using 'do' repeatedly, and wanted to not have to type it all in everytime. hence the macro request. 21:41:09 it does evaluate each time, yes 21:41:09 -!- egoz [n=egoz@125.166.183.158] has quit [] 21:41:42 can you just demonstrate the usefulness with an example. I don't see how it works 21:41:57 why do you care? 21:42:02 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@91.194.72.7] has joined #lisp 21:42:07 stassats: i'm talking about your correction of the macro 21:42:18 tcr annotated #88553 "DO-RANGE for ravster" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88553#2 21:42:28 Hi. What software/compiler are people using to write libraries in lisp, and access them from C code ? 21:42:33 stassats: I see. So it is best to just calculate it once earlier and then place just the calculated value in the end-test then (As you have done in your version)? 21:42:58 ravster: right (if that's your intent) 21:43:38 jkroon: we dont do that here for the most part. We generally access c libs from lisp. There is too much mismatch the otherway (the major benefits of lisp come from the runtime, not in writing libs in it) 21:43:54 minion: ecl? 21:43:55 ecl: Embeddable Common Lisp, a member of the KCL Family, is a Common Lisp implementation initially developed by Giuseppe Attardi and currently maintained by Juan Jose Garcia-Ripoll. http://www.cliki.net/ecl 21:44:14 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:14 aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp5-55.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 21:44:21 anyone here ever tried BEE Lisp? 21:44:34 stassats, thanks, ill look into it 21:44:53 jkroon: it compiles lisp code down to C 21:44:53 aggieben: Looks like scumware 21:45:02 Hmmm. It'd be cool if SLIME's Lisp mode could attach package information to symbols when you cut and paste so when you paste code from a file in one package to code in another it add package qualification as needed. 21:45:09 tcr: why do you say that? 21:45:43 gigamonkey: interesting idea 21:46:07 gigamonkey: Cut'n'paste presentations 21:46:16 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:46:32 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:46:53 tcr: in with-sequence-iterator, the iterator should return the element second and its index third. that way you don't have to (declare ignore) the index if you don't need it 21:47:21 francogrex: The only usefulness is that the iteration begins from a given number instead of from 0. Dotimes forces the iteration to begin from 0. 21:47:25 fe[nl]ix: Yeah I'm thinking about what I thought back when I wrote that code 21:48:12 fe[nl]ix: I will not specify the binding of the variable. The interfaces are supposed to be adopted by a CDR document, and I think such a document should leave that as an implementation detail 21:48:15 stassats: Thank you, for the answer about the "do" system as well as the corrected macro code. 21:49:01 tcr: but it's a lot more useful that way 21:49:41 ravster: ok; but in addition the difference is that the 2nd argument is a list here 21:50:10 gigamonkey: btw I am sure a billion have said this before me, but I am loving "coders at work" 21:50:54 fe[nl]ix: When's the last time you had to write (let ((x x)) (lambda ...))? 21:50:58 "billion monkeys can't be wrong" 21:51:26 good night 21:51:41 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06e1a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["meh!"] 21:51:46 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@91.194.72.7] has left #lisp 21:52:15 -!- aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp5-55.geusnet.com] has quit ["~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~"] 21:52:35 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:54:48 dan_b: glad to hear it. 21:55:20 tcr: a few months ago 21:55:44 *gigamonkey* would continue to encourage anyone who's enjoying Coders to post a review on Amazon ;-) 21:56:13 (Gotta do something to compensate for the 1-star review from a guy who says right in his review that he hasn't read the book.) 21:56:28 fe[nl]ix: What did you do? 21:57:41 micke [n=user@91.190.137.166] has joined #lisp 21:57:58 -!- micke is now known as smackarang` 21:58:14 francogrex: true. I should look into standardising the interface of the macro. 21:59:26 tcr: parallel execution in a (crappy) webapp 22:00:18 -!- smackarang` [n=user@91.190.137.166] has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:22 is manardb good for storing on the order of a few million smallish objects? Also, is there anything equivalent to a 'primary key' that I set and use to access specific objects on demand? 22:00:25 -!- jkroon [n=jkroon@c83-254-144-125.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 22:00:28 Well how did the DO.. form look like? 22:00:28 ravster: if it's useful for you the way it is then it's good. i suppose it depends on the way you code. 22:00:48 -!- smackarang [n=user@91.190.137.166] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:00:53 tcr: anyway, that's not the point. there's no significant benefit in leaving things undefined 22:01:07 gws [n=g@w005.z209031033.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:31 Why did the people behind the ANSI standard do it then? 22:01:36 the library just got PAIP for me today, the first 3 chapters would make an awesome lisp book by themselves 22:01:41 say I had a line moviename|||sku10000|||offer88 22:01:47 and 5000 lines long 22:01:50 If you want an academic point, rebinding on each iteration for a special variable will be costy as hell 22:01:52 in a file 22:02:19 How would I have common lisp print that file with the line rearranged to look like 22:02:32 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:02:42 offer88 sku10000 moviename and have it sorted by the offer number? 22:02:46 scottmaccal [n=scott@pool-71-173-64-247.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:08 tcr: (loop for i in items collect (let ((i i)) (lambda () (do-something i)))) 22:03:35 tcr: they were über-concerned with efficiency 22:03:50 Guthur: PAIP is much more than lisp. I would say it's not even about lisp, the same way SICP is not about scheme 22:04:06 somguysdfoi3 [n=user@thor.desktops.utk.edu] has joined #lisp 22:04:29 another great read from norvig is he latest book with Russel 22:04:50 francogrex, i have it beside me as well 22:04:57 PAIP? 22:05:08 and AIMA 22:05:12 Artificial Intelligence A Modern Approach 22:05:15 hmm 22:05:25 Guthur: right 22:05:41 that's even better than PAIP (and more expensive is it)? 22:06:08 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:06:08 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 22:06:16 francogrex, i know there is more to it than lisp, thats like only a tiny portion of the book, still about the best intro i have seen to the language, though practical common lisp is great to 22:06:38 I believe Norvig is working on a new edition of AIMA as we speak, so if you're planning to buy it you might want to wait a bit. 22:07:12 gigamonkey cheers for the heads up 22:07:22 the library copy will do me for the next year though 22:07:38 it has like 14 copies 22:07:41 Guthur: it's quite intense isn't it? 22:08:11 AIMA? 22:08:13 francogrex ya thought provoking and mind numbing in equal measure hehe 22:08:25 ralith ya 22:08:45 Guthur: what 22:08:52 oh, francogrex expanded it. 22:09:25 hi, i trying macroexpand in a macro that calls another macro, i try call it at expansion time and at run time , but never is expanded in repl, some idea abot my error, thanks 22:09:28 Ralith sorry i thought you were confirming if thats what we were talking about 22:09:51 all I have to do to do that is read the backlog :P 22:09:53 they seem great books both PAIP and AIMA 22:10:11 salva: are you using slime? 22:10:13 C 22:10:17 yes 22:10:23 "C-c RET" is pretty useful for debugging macros 22:11:00 -!- superjoe [n=superjoe@149-169-140-117.nat.asu.edu] has left #lisp 22:11:03 ok Adlai i search info about that thanks 22:11:06 Adlai: ooh, neat! 22:11:13 and here I've been calling macroexpand-1 manually 22:11:25 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:11:36 xan_ [n=xan@dhcp-18-111-36-146.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 22:11:56 Ralith: Might be fruitful to you skimming through http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/slime-talk-2008.pdf 22:12:41 tcr: noted, thanks 22:13:12 Ralith: Notice that you can use C-c C-m (or C-c RET, they're synonymous) inside a macroexpansion buffer again 22:13:32 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:13:32 Ralith: And also notice that C-/ (undo) works after such recursive expansion 22:13:39 neat! 22:13:40 thanks 22:13:47 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.129] has left #lisp 22:13:57 and C-c M-m for macroexpand-all 22:14:17 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:17:06 hm 22:17:13 the debugger is not showing all of my locals 22:17:24 is there a debug decl I can use to make sure they're all visible? 22:17:43 C-u C-c C-c will do the trick with sbcl! 22:17:46 C-u C-c C-c to recompile with higher debugging setting 22:17:51 neat! 22:18:04 You can use C-u C-c C-c on a frame to recompile the function behind it 22:18:05 tcr: thanks for pointing out that paper, I just noticed C-c M-c 22:18:25 then invoke some retry restart, or restart from a restartable frame 22:18:42 (restartable frames are fontified greenish in reasonably recent versions of slime) 22:20:37 *tcr* always has problems with naming a condition's readers 22:22:09 I was glancing through the CTlt2, and it seems that structs are repersented as arrays. Did I read that wrong? 22:22:56 clhs defstruct 22:22:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defstr.htm 22:23:15 benny [n=benny@i577A1AEA.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:23:32 somguysdfoi3: they can be if you want them to, or they can be lists, or they can be some form that your implementation chooses (probably an array, maybe a simple CLOS object) 22:23:37 can you read textfiles into common lisp and then treat them as lists? then rearrange them and print them in new order? 22:23:42 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 22:23:50 -!- morphling [n=stefan@89.13.38.180] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:23:51 yes 22:24:15 what functions pertain to that? 22:24:26 what about say 5000 similar lines? 22:25:01 Will SLOT-VALUE work on condition slots? 22:25:56 tcr: no 22:26:01 that was the subject of yesterday's discussion 22:26:01 you have to use readers. 22:27:54 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:28:40 Adlai: Thanks 22:29:27 In practice, how big of performance hit are generic functions? 22:30:31 e.g. could you get away with making something like #'funcall generic? 22:30:46 it varies between implementations. 22:30:51 uhm funcall already is generic 22:31:01 really? 22:31:07 kind of 22:31:23 You couldn't make #'funcall generic (in the sense of CL's generic functions) without introducing more circularities 22:31:41 however, funcall does behave a bit like a generic function 22:32:21 in that it accepts arguments (the first one is what matters) of varying types, and has different behavior for them. 22:32:24 Say you make a generic function funcall*, and use that whenever you call HOFs. 22:32:39 To what purpose? 22:32:53 so you could do (funcall* some-hash-table key) 22:33:05 amop funcallable-standard-instance 22:33:10 mop funcallable-standard-instance 22:33:34 somguysdfoi3: Why? 22:33:50 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 22:34:29 somguysdfoi3: I can't seem to convince specbot to tell you, but there is a part of the metaobject protocol that lets you create objects which can be funcalled 22:35:08 Adlai: cool, thanks. I'll use google 22:35:17 Tordek [n=tordek@host151.190-227-42.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:35:43 what's wrong with (funcall (gethash key some-hash-table)) ? 22:36:37 stassats: No it's worse, (hash-table key) is supposed to be a shortform for (gethash key hash-table) 22:36:49 (mapcar {(failed red) (success green)} states) 22:37:49 How about learning Common Lisp before trying to fix it? 22:37:51 somguysdfoi3: maybe you're looking for (mapcar (lambda (x) (gethash x )) states) ? 22:38:05 I'm inventing some reader-macro on #\{ 22:38:06 where would be bound in some outer scope 22:38:22 sure, you could use that readmacro, I'm not contesting that 22:38:23 thought it would be clear, sorry 22:38:39 (although if you're using readmacros, consider using named-readtables so that you don't clobber other people's readmacros) 22:38:51 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.177.143.54] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:39:00 Adlai: thanks i was wondering if there was something like that. 22:39:14 my example still holds if you use that readmacro... 22:39:36 the "why not just use lambda" one? 22:39:45 you don't need to extend the behavior of funcall to treat hashtables specially, you can just close over the hashtable with a closure. right. 22:40:19 looks nicer 22:40:22 first of all -- if you like readmacros, you can have one for lambda too 22:40:44 some people use #L((gethash _ ) 22:40:45 ) 22:40:52 and you can have your readmacro too, if you want 22:41:15 (mapcar #[gethash $1 {(failed red) (success green)}] states) 22:41:18 so: (mapcar #L((gethash _ {(failed red) (success green)})) states) 22:41:21 it's stull ugly though 22:41:42 in my opinion, it's ugly because you're starting to pile on syntax where it's not really necessary 22:42:08 Do you mean for hashes or for lambda? 22:42:43 I think the hashtable syntax is pretty unnecessary, and I'm uncertain about the lambda one. 22:43:23 short lambdas are very common, so if you like fancy syntax, go ahead and write (or use one of the existing) a readmacro for lambdas 22:44:04 but I don't think you need read syntax for hashtables, or to extend funcall's behavior in that way. 22:44:25 metasyntax` [n=user@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:51 bye all, thanks 22:44:59 Adlai: alright, but I like it. 22:45:13 -!- waterpie [n=waterpie@athedsl-323357.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:45:53 Anyways, do you think doing shit like that will be a performance problem? 22:46:51 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.236.91] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:47:30 Yes, in the brain of the pour soul who has to read your code 22:47:51 I don't know, some implementations have a very good CLOS. On the other hand, I think you're trying to express things with the wrong concepts. 22:48:24 -!- metasyntax` [n=user@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 22:48:47 metasyntax` [n=user@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:49 that hashtable readmacro is really not a great idea. 22:48:58 especially not how you're using it there. 22:49:15 It's a common idiom in python. 22:49:21 and other similar languages. 22:49:26 *Adlai* points to #python 22:49:33 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-6-114.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 22:50:01 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-6-114.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:50:37 the fact that something is a common idiom doesn't make it good practice 22:51:01 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:51:10 The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it a bad practice. 22:51:10 also, there's a difference between {} as a syntax for hashtables, and using a 2-element hash instead of a function. 22:51:11 for smallish dictionaries, plists are actually faster than hashtables 22:52:12 michaelw: link? 22:52:40 -!- metasyntax` [n=user@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 22:52:49 somguysdfoi3: this is a plist: (fail red success green) 22:53:02 measure it yourself 22:53:13 It's a list of alternating keys and values 22:53:17 I did. the hash table was always faster. Even for one element. 22:53:24 I know what a plist is. 22:53:27 somewhere between 10 and 20, i believe 22:53:39 somguysdfoi3: what implementation are you on? 22:53:54 stassats: likely closer to 10, but yes 22:54:03 SBCL. I am skeptical of my results, and was wondering if there were better benchmarks. 22:54:08 chavo_ [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:09 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-238.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:54:30 somguysdfoi3: one aspect to consider is size 22:54:38 t 22:54:42 in that code snippet, the hashtable gets thrown away after you use it 22:54:49 -!- xan_ [n=xan@dhcp-18-111-36-146.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:55:02 Well, I wouldn't actually use it like that. 22:55:16 clhs case 22:55:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_case_.htm 22:55:21 There would be some global constant hashtable. 22:56:44 (defconstant state->color {...}) 22:56:48 (mapcar state->color states) 22:58:14 how about (defun state-to-color (state) (ecase state (win green) (red lose))) 22:59:08 (defmethod state->color ((state (eql ...))) ...) 22:59:16 endless the possibilities are 22:59:20 linear search? 22:59:56 Xach: This is floG :) 23:00:22 somguysdfoi3: also defconstant will give you grief, at least with sbcl 23:00:25 michaelw: what's floG? i must have missed some context... 23:00:43 reverse Golf 23:00:47 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:03 oh 23:01:44 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:01:49 somguysdfoi3: you might want to look at load-time-value, if you really go through with it 23:05:32 SharkSpider [n=SharkSpi@rn--vw1-0-6-a44.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 23:05:41 hey, anyone around? 23:06:15 SharkSpider: hundreds 23:06:33 Xach: Well, specifically "at their keyboards", and such 23:06:46 SharkSpider: hello! 23:07:01 SharkSpider: hundreds, waiting for the real discussion. 23:07:04 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-6-114.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 23:07:22 okay... well since it says "ask", I'm using scheme (subset of lisp) and stumped by a couple "try this" things I was given a few days ago 23:07:34 metasyntax` [n=user@71.127.125.129] has joined #lisp 23:07:45 SharkSpider: #scheme has its own channel 23:07:49 It's not a subset of Lisp. 23:07:59 I was told that it was -.- 23:08:04 Now you know better. 23:08:13 yup, thanks, I'll try that channel then 23:08:14 SharkSpider: It's a minimalistic language, but it includes some things which Common Lisp doesn't. 23:08:44 ah, I see 23:09:08 Scheme is a Lisp 23:09:19 some wouldn't agree 23:09:29 stassats: and they would be wrong 23:10:29 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:59 hm... well whatever it is, the scheme channel's empty 23:10:59 -!- locci is now known as carlocci 23:11:18 SharkSpider: there are 140 people there. 23:11:28 wait what? 23:11:37 Xach: What channel? 23:11:42 #scheme 23:11:43 #scheme 23:12:01 I just joined that one, or at least I think so 23:12:18 If you thought it was empty, you didn't join #scheme. 23:12:44 I hit slash join, then typed in #scheme 23:13:36 you're not in #scheme 23:13:59 oh there we go 23:14:01 now you aare. 23:14:17 mhm 23:14:53 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1AEA.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:15:37 quidnunc [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1242356947.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:15:46 redblue [i=star@ppp073.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:15:55 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:17:25 Is there a way to define functions in lisp that can be called from C? 23:17:41 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F3DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:17:48 yes 23:17:52 minion: cffi for quidnunc 23:17:53 quidnunc: direct your attention towards cffi: CFFI, the Common Foreign Function Interface, purports to be a portable foreign function interface for Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cffi 23:18:11 Adlai: That's for C from lisp, no? 23:18:13 cffi lets you define callbacks, so you can pass pointers to Lisp functions to C code. 23:19:00 Adlai: I can't modify the C code :( 23:19:11 quidnunc: ECL also allows you to create a DLLs that can be loaded by other applications, but that's rather heavy unless you plan to actually use enough of the image :) 23:20:23 Adlai: Maybe I can be a stub interface... 23:21:38 s/be/make 23:21:43 Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:55 quidnunc: all you need is some C code which accepts function pointers 23:23:13 *deepfire* looks around for tcr 23:23:29 iang [n=bob@bas8-toronto12-1167856762.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:24:57 -!- iang is now known as ianxk 23:25:36 hi,i have another basic problem with macros format and " , i'll paste it, and thanks a lot for your helps , i'm trying to do a web modeling system well 23:25:38 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 23:25:49 salva pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88558 23:27:17 clhs intern 23:27:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_intern.htm 23:27:19 (format nil ...) returns a string 23:27:23 salva: take the strings you generate, and intern them. 23:28:07 a function name is a symbol? 23:28:17 benny [n=benny@i577A1AEA.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:28:34 yes 23:29:02 -!- ianxk [n=bob@bas8-toronto12-1167856762.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 23:29:11 -!- ubii [n=ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:29:50 salva: you can pass to DEFUN either a symbol, or a designator for a setf function, but I don't think you're concerned with setf functions here. 23:30:11 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:06 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-157-23-181.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 23:31:06 if the symbol apears as |border-main| can be called with (border-name ? 23:31:20 |border-main| is lowercase 23:31:20 salva: no. 23:31:27 (|border-main| ...) 23:31:33 or (\b\o 23:31:35 grr. 23:31:36 i must uper-case my string then 23:31:38 ? 23:31:40 yes 23:31:54 or (\b\o\r\d\e\r-\m\a\i\n ...) if you really want. 23:32:06 |...| is a way of escaping characters in a symbol name. 23:32:09 jaja 23:32:11 As is \ 23:32:50 Ian___ [n=chatzill@bas8-toronto12-1167856762.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:33:13 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:36 ok thanks with upercase i solve the problem, and i have a lot of them in my lisp, 23:33:48 clhs 22.3.8.1 23:33:49 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cha.htm 23:33:54 salva: the above might be handy 23:34:27 (format nil "~:@(lots of ~A in lowercase~)" 'stuff) => "LOTS OF STUFF IN LOWERCASE" 23:34:55 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@193.109.18.92] has quit [] 23:34:57 great 23:36:34 -!- Fjant [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:36:43 thanks, i'll study format lisp has a lot of things but permits build with a little set 23:37:26 before my first two lisp months i think that i lost a lot of time 23:37:58 after i say 23:39:10 Is 'gigamonkey Peter Seibel? 23:40:31 somguysdfoi3: yup, our resident celebrity ;-) 23:40:40 cool 23:41:53 *Xach* frowns 23:42:04 -!- scottmaccal [n=scott@pool-71-173-64-247.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:43:07 Hey Xach. 23:43:27 scottmaccal [n=scott@pool-71-173-64-247.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:40 Xach is the meta-celebrity that makes all us lesser celebrities possible. 23:43:52 *gigamonkey* waves at somguysdfoi3 23:43:58 fph [i=joe@adsl-68-126-19-98.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:15 Thanks for the awesome book. 23:44:25 No problem. 23:52:37 -!- dfox [n=dfox@94.113.17.246] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:58:00 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 23:59:04 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:04 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:59:25 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]