00:00:21 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:14 hmm... I wonder if I should try replacing my 3.1 with 3.7... 00:01:57 <_3b> if you mean firefox, i'd avoid 3.7 for serious use from what i've seen so far 00:04:05 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:06:37 _3b: I've been using 3.1b4 compiled with rather volatile settings for a long time xD 00:07:33 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:07:54 3.7 is not very stable at all .. heh 00:08:37 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:08:52 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 00:10:13 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@140a.hackerdojo.com] has quit [] 00:12:31 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-131-245.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:12:31 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:12:54 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 00:15:37 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:16:56 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:17:10 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:21 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:17:22 -!- smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:17:43 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 00:18:06 -!- cads [n=max@c-24-30-55-172.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:18:14 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:38 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@140a.hackerdojo.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:17 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-18.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:25:34 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:26:05 -!- shyam_k [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [No route to host] 00:27:56 Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has joined #lisp 00:30:04 Anyone have any idea how a 35 year old enterprise programmer/manager in Austin can find a job where mediocrity is not a strength? 00:30:24 drafael2 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-32.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:30:25 <_3b> make your own? 00:30:39 Not in a position to do that unfortunately 00:31:33 Actually, no, that's defeatist - I work at home, I should try harder. 00:32:18 *_3b* hasn't quite figured it out yet either :p 00:33:50 I really realized I don't belong at my current job today. The way I code has come into question. I use linq/closures - others do too; but less so. My coding was called into question, we looked over an "illegible" example. I suggested changes to make it more legible to the target audience. Thing is, this code was the best I could probably do - I could only think up acceptable changes by pickingt something sarcastically stupid and doing it. 00:34:41 Can we see an example? 00:34:58 Can't share it. This may push some buttons - I find value in "local" functions within C# functions. 00:35:10 That's one cross. Another is using containers/expressions immutably. 00:35:11 JohnnyL [i=excellen@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMz78WlSjVU 00:35:15 Another is returning functions 00:35:17 -!- JohnnyL [i=excellen@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 00:36:17 Modius: at least it's just a job search, not finding home while being homeless ;P 00:36:48 p_l: MY background was games - as I work remote, my networking is hampered (coworkers are scattered or in nyc) 00:37:48 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:38:01 *_3b* has been writing lots of illegible closures lately 00:38:40 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-131-245.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:38:43 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:40:26 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@66.92.19.253] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:41:47 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 00:43:51 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 00:45:06 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-18.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:47:41 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.213.142] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 00:48:55 dialtone [n=dialtone@98.210.155.172] has joined #lisp 00:50:51 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:53:02 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:53:02 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:53:31 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 00:53:34 blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:41 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 00:59:03 -!- xan [n=xan@72-255-14-192.client.stsn.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:00:04 -!- greyhame [n=jao@195.Red-83-33-226.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:00:40 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-31-155.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 01:01:43 blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 01:02:46 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-sumvtrqdrglgxyoj] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:03:13 Modius: I have to ask, who thinks that closures make code *less* readable? 01:04:22 or the sprinkling of type inference that c# does for them for that matter 01:05:00 greyhame [n=jao@195.Red-83-33-226.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:56 -!- chris2_ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-060-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:07:32 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has joined #lisp 01:08:31 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:09:38 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-82-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:10:11 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@140a.hackerdojo.com] has quit [] 01:12:41 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 01:12:41 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:13:07 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 01:13:34 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:17:33 S11001001: Leaders of the other teams and my boss who wrote our coding standards. Yes, "var" was banned; but only for method returns - (yes, WTF?) 01:17:35 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.91.164] has joined #lisp 01:18:03 S11001001: How do you argue with: "I looked at your code, even *I* can't read it" haha 01:18:35 that's easy, don't write Lisp at work 01:18:49 stassats: Or linq-centric C#3 01:19:59 Modius: reading the apress book, it seemed like the author was intentionally trying to confuse you into thinking that you couldn't say "return xyz;" if xyz was defined with "var" 01:20:35 S11001001: The "var" ban was for familiarity/legibility, that people were used to seeing the type on the left (a C legacy thing that no stat typed language perpetuates) 01:20:57 S11001001: Unfortunately, having it on method returns is the most useful, when linq/etc calls return things with large type sigs, or "anonymous types" 01:21:37 ... and don't talk about non-Lisp at #lisp 01:22:08 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp031.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:22:46 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:24:56 redblue [i=star@ppp022.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:25:30 egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has joined #lisp 01:28:34 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-99-33-92-164.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:29:52 smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:40 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:37:12 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:37:12 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:37:43 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 01:38:08 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 01:38:43 What's the macro for leaving a message for someone again? 01:39:19 For "talking to irc bots" values of "macro" 01:40:13 minion: memo for aja: hi 01:40:13 Remembered. I'll tell aja when he/she/it next speaks. 01:41:01 ramus`: Thanks. 01:41:01 aja, memo from ramus`: hi 01:41:09 Heh. 01:41:12 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-31-155.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:41:13 indeed 01:41:35 now you can live your life backwards .. like in Memento 01:41:36 :) 01:41:53 minion: memo for gigamonkey: Finally got my copy of "Coders at Work" (suspect Amazon was backed up -- a good thing?) Looks great -- thanks for making it. 01:41:53 Remembered. I'll tell gigamonkey when he/she/it next speaks. 01:43:16 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-31-155.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 01:43:30 -!- ska` [n=user@ppp-61-90-15-217.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:43:39 *p_l* likes how minion remembers to include 'it 01:44:37 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:47:13 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:49:16 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@64.9.242.109] has joined #lisp 01:49:32 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 01:52:17 -!- seangrove [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:53:04 -!- h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:53:05 h3 [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 01:53:07 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.91.164] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:53:26 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.91.164] has joined #lisp 01:59:24 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:59:52 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 02:04:34 swathanthran [n=user@117.204.87.183] has joined #lisp 02:07:09 dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:04 -!- pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:09:00 pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has joined #lisp 02:09:38 -!- egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 02:17:14 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:17:30 greetings 02:18:29 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:19:03 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:19:25 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 02:19:48 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-121.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:19:52 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:22:53 -!- smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:24:19 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-59-41.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:46 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:26:19 jasber [n=bjasper@173-26-98-219.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:27:06 -!- jasber_ [n=bjasper@173-26-98-219.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:27:16 greetings earthling 02:27:43 hey lnostdal 02:27:49 the lisp alien salutes you 02:27:59 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 02:28:06 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp022.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:28:08 *fusss* hopes no one beat him to clisp port of bordeaux-threads ^_^ 02:28:25 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:33 *lnostdal* doesn't think so 02:28:37 they work on win32 also? .. heh 02:28:49 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 02:29:00 get outta here; i have been on linux full time for the past month :-D 02:30:20 but it does have --with-threads=WIN32_THREADS 02:30:21 rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:30:43 egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has joined #lisp 02:30:58 cool .. just thinking it'd be somewhat unique for clisp to have threads on that platform .. but, uh, thinking again both ccl and ecl have threads there too, so, maybe not that unique 02:31:00 redblue [i=star@ppp122.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:31:32 ...clisp has threads? 02:31:44 *lnostdal* lives in a somewhat sbcl-centric world .. small world == simpler :P 02:31:52 sykopomp: welcome to 09 '09 02:31:54 -!- dialtone_ [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit ["leaving"] 02:32:31 lnostdal: not if you need fastcgi, berkeley db and ldap builtin; clisp has these, so why bother fussing with stale libraries to see if they still work 02:32:38 fusss: this is great news. Which version of CLISP has threads? And where is your BT patch? :) 02:33:17 sykopomp: latest does http://clisp.cons.org/impnotes/mt.html 02:33:21 -!- egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has quit [Client Quit] 02:33:29 egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has joined #lisp 02:33:32 sykopomp: just playing with clisp itself now, just built it now 02:33:32 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:33:52 sykopomp: what BT patch ? 02:34:21 ah, isn't linux fun, fusss ? .. building stuff from source is _actually_ possible there :) 02:34:57 *lnostdal* recalls the immense pain using mingw32 and even cygwin x) 02:34:57 lnostdal: yeah, i know 02:34:57 fe[nl]ix: I misread. I thought fusss said that he'd written the clisp code to make BT work with it. 02:35:16 sykopomp: i am tempted, seeing how trivial bt backends are :-) specially given clisp's rich api 02:35:27 Tue Jan 27 03:33:33 CET 2009 Stelian Ionescu 02:35:27 * Add Clisp support. 02:35:39 FFFUUUUUU 02:35:41 haha 02:35:44 fusss: for extra greatness, I can edit two lines of code in Arch's clisp PKGBUILD and have threaded clisp package for arch that pacman can manage ;) 02:35:56 hahahahah 02:36:06 that's quite a defeat, there. 02:36:19 -!- drafael2 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-32.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:38:40 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:41:20 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 02:41:23 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:43 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:43:43 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:43:47 *p_l* would like SUA to be more available and up-to-date, so POSIX compatibility would stop being extra on windows 02:44:00 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 02:44:33 It'd be nice if you could narrow all slime-produced listings by package.. 02:44:52 For, at least, initialize-instance methods it'd be indispensable 02:45:25 GROUP BY package ? 02:47:58 damn. It failed to build... 02:48:43 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:51:35 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:05 sykopomp: here is a nickel, get yourself a better gentoo 02:55:16 muuahahaha 02:55:25 fusss: it's not gentoo :\ 02:55:35 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 02:55:38 same same but different eh? 02:55:45 no, it's quite different. 02:55:55 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 02:56:22 it's a binary distro. It just happens that it also gives you access to its package-building system for when you want custom packages (like this) 02:56:42 fusss: how did you build clisp? 02:56:45 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:56:56 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 02:58:39 ./configure --with-lots-of-options --with-libffcall --with-libsigsegv --with-moar-weird-clisp-byproduct-libs-that-nobody-else-uses --with-everything-hand-built-because-fedora-yum-is-unfit-to-build-clisp --with-hard-prayer-and-offerings-to-the-gods-of-years-past-and-today --with-please-please-build-clisp 02:59:02 fusss: What's the --with-thread option you assed it?... 02:59:05 passed* 02:59:21 POSTFIX_THREAD, it's in ./configure --help 03:00:08 oh. Thanks :) 03:01:08 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:01:12 i didn't mean to go on a rant there, it took all morning and it's still being weird 03:01:16 jwood [n=jwood@24-148-14-216.prk-bsr1.chi-prk.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:17 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:03:33 fusss: I should've done that in the first place. It looks like the package is building :) 03:03:36 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:03:47 *Adlai* had a similar experience building it with new-clx and ffcall, and isn't even going to try building with threads now. 03:04:00 Adlai: my PKGBUILD works ;D 03:04:19 oh nevermind, it croaked. 03:04:29 ... exactly. 03:04:41 Adlai: I futzed with it all morning and now fastcgi and bdb are not in *features* 03:04:51 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-27-166.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:05:06 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-27-166.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:05:13 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:07:27 ... it's an interesting experience to be in a big classroom where all PCs suddenly get a wake-on-lan signal 03:07:28 egoz [i=egoz@114.59.38.116] has joined #lisp 03:08:48 -!- jwood [n=jwood@24-148-14-216.prk-bsr1.chi-prk.il.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 03:11:27 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:11:30 sykopomp, doing make clean might help .. ECL was very bitchy building without a clean initial state (especially as i was changing build options in-between attempts..) 03:11:43 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:15 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:14:36 p_l: that would be even better in a robotics lab 03:15:41 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:18:12 angel__ [n=angel@221.223.126.169] has joined #lisp 03:19:03 how can i set emacs to default split-window horizontally 03:19:19 -!- colin_ [n=colin@118-169-32-189.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:19:44 -!- ubii [n=ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:19:56 spacebat: funny, I've got robotics next half-session :D 03:20:30 angel__: that's a question for #emacs, but split-window-preferred-function 03:21:18 thanks benny 03:21:33 and apologize, I saw you asked it there a few minutes back 03:21:35 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:21:38 I mean I want to apologize 03:21:39 not you ;-) 03:22:32 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:22:43 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:22:57 ubii [n=ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:50 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@64.9.242.109] has quit [] 03:28:31 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:31 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:28:42 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:29:08 dizpater [n=dizpater@173-129-167-72.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:51 -!- dizpater [n=dizpater@173-129-167-72.pools.spcsdns.net] has left #lisp 03:32:19 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:32:48 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:38:11 dizpater [n=dizpater@173-129-167-72.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:25 reprore_ [n=reprore@114.48.161.35] has joined #lisp 03:38:28 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@114.48.161.35] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:39:00 -!- dizpater [n=dizpater@173-129-167-72.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:41:09 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:56 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:43 clisp threads are nice except for two visible problems. the thread doesn't "exit" when its main function terminates, and make-thread require a function object; if it took a symbol it would allow one to redefine the thread function while it was running. 03:46:19 fusss: what makes you think that, on the latter? 03:46:35 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-163.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:47:48 pkhuong: how would you redine test-thread in (make-thread #'test-thread) after the thread is made? 03:47:56 -!- greyhame [n=jao@195.Red-83-33-226.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:48:05 make-thread takes a closure and runs with it 03:48:23 -!- ubii [n=ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:48:33 unless you hack the threading internals and somehow alter the closure inside the thread queue 03:48:51 fusss: what makes you think that passing a symbol would change anything? 03:49:41 Redefining a function only changes the binding. There's no sane way to magically alter code that's already executing, at least until a recursive call is made. 03:50:06 pkhuong: and all hunch, having been burned out by #'function callbacks both in CLIM and CAPI; passing 'function means that your callbacks could be changed even after the callbacks are registered 03:50:13 s/all/old/ 03:50:47 fusss: that's only if the function is called multiple times, since with a symbol, the binding is looked at just before calling. 03:51:05 the make-thread call is only made "once" still .. (make-thread (lambda () (loop (function))) now change function 03:51:12 yeah 03:51:21 you're right .. 03:57:17 using a metaclass and MOP in general, is it possible to control initialization of slots? .. in particular slots that are given "no value" (unbound), as i cannot "control" these at initialization time via s-v-u-c 03:57:23 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 03:57:28 -!- jasber [n=bjasper@173-26-98-219.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:57:44 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:57:50 perhaps a poorly phrased question .. uh 03:57:54 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:58:49 perhaps going via the allocate-instance method is the only way .. 03:58:56 ubii [n=ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:05 lnostdal: overriding initialize-instance will prevent initforms from running. Is that what you're looking for? 04:02:33 not sure 04:03:01 that's more on the class side of things .. it'd be great if there was a way to control this on the metaclass side 04:03:14 i think 04:06:46 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:08:02 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has joined #lisp 04:10:36 no, specializing on make-instance is what i was after :) 04:11:30 (make-instance ((class my-metaclass) &rest initargs) and (make-instance ((class (eql 'my-metaclass)) &rest initargs) .. or so 04:14:00 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit ["brb"] 04:14:07 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:13 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:18:13 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:18:33 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:19:17 didi [n=user@189-68-39-99.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 04:20:21 Is there such a thing as "argv" in lisp? 04:21:42 didi: catching command-line arguments depends on the implementation 04:21:51 refer to your implementation's documentation to figure out how to do it. 04:23:10 sykopomp: Thank you. 04:25:08 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:01 -!- ubii [n=ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:29:01 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:29:01 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-121.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:29:01 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:29:01 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:29:01 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:29:01 -!- anekos [n=anekos@pl712.nas925.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:29:01 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:36:09 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:36:25 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:26 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 04:37:39 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:37:39 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-10.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:37:48 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76.10.149.209] has joined #lisp 04:38:09 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:38:38 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has joined #lisp 04:39:55 Does lisp has number size boundaries? I am just amazed how it could make a factorial of 1000. 04:40:18 didi: bignums don't really have one 04:40:23 didi: nope, it's only limited by your hardware. 04:40:45 bignum arithmetic can get slow, though, and it allocates a lot of memory. 04:40:46 *Very* nice... Too nice, really. ;-) 04:41:40 qbg [n=qbg@frogstar.morris.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 04:41:43 Adlai: Hum. Well, I am making some computations using C and matrix and it has not been that easy. The damn long long double keep exploding. 04:41:51 I keep forgetting 04:41:56 why *don't* most lisps use libgmp? 04:42:24 Ralith: Lispers like to do stuff themselves. 04:42:53 and there are probably real reasons too, maybe involving the implementations tagging scheme. 04:43:01 Good morning! 04:43:20 beach: Hacks & Glory await! 04:43:30 ubii [n=ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:44 emacs-dwim: As soon as I wake up. That's what the coffee is for. 04:43:51 good morning beach 04:43:54 Adlai: NIH is a pretty shitty reason, imo. 04:44:14 didi: new here? 04:44:25 Ralith: One word: The forced GPLing of code. 04:44:37 beach: Yes. First time ever. :-) 04:44:39 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:44:41 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:44:48 Makoryu: that's not one word. 04:44:51 didi: Welcome! What brings you to #lisp? 04:45:00 anekos [n=anekos@pl712.nas925.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:45:04 sykopomp: Whoops, my mistake 04:45:09 beach: Hum... Lisp curiosity? 04:45:21 fair enough! 04:45:33 beach: Just writing my very first lines of it. 04:45:49 Tordek [n=tordek@host111.190-226-115.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:45:53 minion: tell didi about lisppaste! 04:46:18 no minion? 04:46:35 didi: Anyway, if you want to show us some code, use lisppaste. 04:46:38 Makoryu: libgmp is GPL? 04:46:42 lisppaste: url? 04:46:43 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 04:46:44 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-120-34.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:46:53 didi: right there ^^ 04:46:55 Adlai: thanks! 04:46:57 :-D 04:47:28 beach: no problem. Not sure where minion has gone... 04:47:37 (pining for the fjords, perhaps?) 04:47:48 Yeah, maybe so. 04:47:53 Ralith: Well, no, it's LGPL. But it might as well be GPL with the linking restrictions, as far as most CL implementations are concerned. 04:47:54 beach: Thank you, I will. 04:48:01 lisppaste: keybinding? 04:48:22 Makoryu: ECL seems to do fine. 04:48:27 emacs-dwim: lisppaste only responds to "url?", from my experience. 04:48:30 drafael [n=tapio@118.90.132.121] has joined #lisp 04:48:34 Makoryu: I don't think it's an issue when FFIing 04:48:45 I think it's more an issue when the lib itself is lisp. 04:49:07 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-120-34.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:49:24 Adlai: no wonder there was an AI winter... 04:49:44 swathanthran [n=user@117.204.87.183] has joined #lisp 04:49:54 sykopomp: You'll probably explain it better than I would. I defer to you. 04:49:55 ah, yeah, CFFI uses dynamic linking doesn't it 04:50:04 makes the whole thing rather moot 04:50:11 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 04:50:11 -!- swathanthran is now known as Guest47769 04:50:16 Greetings. 04:50:23 What happened to boinkmarks? 04:50:27 hello tmh 04:50:39 Hey beach 04:51:01 NM, I was following a bad link. 04:51:37 Or not. -> http://sbcl.boinkor.net/bench/ 04:51:49 -!- Guest47769 is now known as swathanthran 04:51:55 -!- swathanthran is now known as swathanthran` 04:53:00 What I'm really after is a benchmark framework where I can measure a form and the framework will store, for example, the execution time, implementation information, test time, etc. in a format that I can then use to compare progress over time. 04:53:05 -!- swathanthran` is now known as swathanthran 04:53:22 someguysfsf [n=user@thor.desktops.utk.edu] has joined #lisp 04:55:20 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-120-34.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:56:53 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-10.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:57:02 Please, someone save me from implementing a benchmark framework myself. 04:57:03 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 04:57:33 -!- michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:57:36 didi: what i find amazing is that after every student implements a bignum package, there are still so many languages unable to handle them in some standard way. 04:58:56 didi: why shouldn't my computer fill the hard disk with digits in a computation if i tell it to? With lisp, of course it does. 04:59:46 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:00:11 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:02:45 emacs-dwim: I must say I am impressed by lisp. I think it can be because of the timing but for the last week I was getting beat up by overflow exceptions in C. Seeing something like this being done by the language itself it's pretty cool. 05:04:10 i spent years Greenspunning until i found it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_Tenth_Rule 05:04:43 -!- Tordek_ [n=tordek@host246.200-117-47.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:05:01 didi: some languages take a perverse delight in stopping you from DTRT at every turn. 05:05:12 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 05:08:11 If you believe Greenspun's rule, then you realize they don't *stop* you from DTRT, they just make it *really* challenging. :-) 05:09:08 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:10:08 tmh: Can you really say you are still programming in that language, though? Lisp is what the turtle is standing on. 05:10:38 I'm just being pedantic to amuse myself. 05:11:06 emacs-dwim: That's a good question. I once worked for a company that had a rule that everything had to be written in Pascal (it was a long time ago), so I wrote a Lisp interpreter in Pascal and wrote the software in Lisp. 05:11:17 tmh: Even integers are really just shorthand for lambdas... 05:12:00 beach: how big was the interpreter? 05:12:07 ie, did you write a LISP, or a Common Lisp? 05:12:21 Adlai: Closer to LISP. 05:12:28 Adlai: I can't remember the size. It was not big. 05:12:57 beach: wasn't it much smaller once you rewrote it to run on itself? 05:13:05 Adlai: This was in 1981 or so, so we were far from CL then. 05:13:14 emacs-dwim: Never did that. 05:13:21 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:13:38 heh, that's still great. 05:13:59 Adlai: Yeah, it took them a while to figure it out. 05:14:26 if you just had an interpreter, though, didn't they notice that some of the code was lisp? 05:15:42 Adlai: They didn't really know Lisp. And it was considered a funny data format for my Pascal program. 05:15:57 well, code is data... 05:16:05 Adlai: Exactly my point. 05:16:20 -!- qbg [n=qbg@frogstar.morris.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:16:44 beach: what was it used for? 05:16:48 beach: Haha. "funny data format". Great. 05:17:19 what's the "data" corollary to Greenspun's tenth? 05:17:42 Adlai: Simulating a real-time database on a VAX/VMS machine. 05:18:10 Adlai: The real-time database ran on an M68k-based microcomputer. 05:19:02 Adlai: The people who wrote the real thing had 24h turnaround time between bug fixes. I had a few seconds because everything was linked lists. 05:19:47 beach: too bad they didn't notice that difference. 05:20:08 Adlai: Well, after that, some managers started wondering what my group did differently. 05:20:20 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-3-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:26 I guess your group just had a great data representation... 05:21:56 Adlai: Eventually, one guy figured it out, but there were no great protests at that point. 05:24:16 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 05:24:17 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:24:23 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 05:24:54 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:27:24 -!- angel__ [n=angel@221.223.126.169] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:27:28 beach: were the other programmers "in on it"? 05:29:45 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:30:06 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 05:30:09 Adlai: Yes, some recent graduates of my group. 05:30:24 (That I helped hire after I got hired myself) 05:31:27 beach: It's good to know that such "grassroots lisping" goes on, even when management opposes. 05:31:47 Adlai: Doing something like that takes years of planning. First you suggest an internship for the right kind of people, then you help hire them, and then you can start getting work done. 05:32:18 Adlai: There was no opposition. I realized early on (and I still practice it) that one should not ask permission. 05:32:19 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:32:33 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:34:46 well, why would there be opposition if your team did a good job? It seems as though managers seldom know what's best. 05:35:07 (not surprising...) 05:35:46 Adlai: Middle managers (I am simplifying, but just a little) are mainly concerned with keeping their jobs. If you ask permission for something strange, they will oppose it because of the risk. But they are happy with your doing it anyway, because if it goes well, they get part of the glory, and if not, they can blame you. 05:38:55 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:31 angel__ [n=angel@221.223.133.16] has joined #lisp 05:42:30 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:42:57 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:46:18 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:49:01 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.77.71.120] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:53:37 -!- someguysfsf [n=user@thor.desktops.utk.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 05:54:15 ... good thing of of the only people I knew from "managing" side back while working for big company actually had balls xD 05:54:39 *p_l* recalls he blocked our purchase order for a server... 05:55:12 I agree, "server" is not enough of a description for "reasoning" part of purchase request ^^; 05:56:43 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:57:33 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:57:51 not when total reaches 4~5 digits in euros 05:57:54 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:58 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:01:23 simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 06:02:33 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:07:05 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:07:08 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.91.164] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:07:09 tsuru` [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:17 sykopomp` [n=root@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:07:40 ASau 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#lisp 06:10:52 DeusExPikachu [i=pikachu@anapnea.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:03 sepi [n=enigma@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 06:11:34 tmitt [n=seg@adsl-150-224-7.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:40 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 06:12:34 p_l: The other thing is that you actually required the manager to make a decision. This is equivalent to asking permission for something. The safe thing to do for the manager is to deny the purchase. 06:12:35 ramus` [n=ramus@99.23.131.248] has joined #lisp 06:14:23 koollman [n=samson_t@sd-10510.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 06:14:45 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 06:15:07 rapacity [n=prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 06:16:03 djinni` [n=djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 06:16:11 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:06 beach: nah, that guy was in charge of controlling all financial transactions of our section of company 06:17:46 accountants. 06:18:21 Adamant: Accounting was separate from that - decision making wasn't left to them 06:18:32 ah 06:18:35 controller then 06:18:36 salva [n=salva@91.117.11.105] has joined #lisp 06:18:39 yeah 06:19:27 I think they get the same training 06:19:31 Recommend a cl-documentation package? 06:19:33 just different job roles 06:19:49 Adamant: as well as "the poor guy who got to explain to T-Mobile execs that our base station costs figure includes all of the costs, not some fancy stripped-down, management friendly one" 06:20:24 ah 06:20:56 When I heard that he got questions why do we have emergency power on nearly all stations, I figured the other side never seen a storm spanning half of the country 06:21:07 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 06:21:43 Samy [n=sbahra@c-68-34-110-14.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:02 p_l: grid power goes out a few times a year here for a few minutes without storms 06:22:09 emacs-dwim: I haven't found any that I like. The ones that exist mostly solve the wrong problem. 06:22:21 Retardedpope [n=Retarded@c-66-56-9-145.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:32 given that we are hurricane/cyclone country, not including backup power would be silly 06:23:09 beach: i suppose i could generate texinfo 06:23:10 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:20 usually they don't bother to install a generator and just use batteries though, so cell phone service goes out sooner or later. one of the benefits of landlines. 06:23:37 Adamant: and to make it funnier, poland isn't really a country where you expect hurricanes etc. It's just that "climate change" isn't something we debate its existence, we debate how much we got screwed over 06:23:39 emacs-dwim: From docstrings? 06:23:53 p_l: get screwed over, but yeah 06:24:11 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-152.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:24:24 beach: like the html-generating packages 06:24:25 Adamant: most stations have batteries, but I guess certain bigger installations have complete generators 06:24:44 emacs-dwim: OK, so what is the problem you are trying to solve? 06:24:51 Adamant: I know that my father was thinking of buying a military grade power generator for our home 06:25:08 p_l: not sure I see the point for Poland 06:25:18 unless the power there is spotty 06:25:40 not a lot of natural disaster hazards, unless you're worried about some kind of social collapse 06:26:04 housel [n=nnnhouse@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 06:26:46 Adamant: main problem is that winds and storms can rip powerlines, and there areas without landlines, especially nowadays when a certain company can supply a GSM modem in place of landline... 06:26:53 (we still have a dominant telco) 06:27:15 ah, so you get nasty storms from the Baltic? 06:27:28 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:27:37 Adamant: They usually come from the north Atlantic. 06:27:41 ah ok 06:28:09 Adamant: They are actually the remains of hurricanes that land in north America. 06:28:10 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.56.159] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:28:15 ah 06:28:21 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:28:45 you mean ones that make landfall and go back out to sea or don't hit? 06:28:46 Adamant: we have unfortunate condition of getting airmass from everywhere 06:28:59 beach: some libraries would be easier to learn with more documentation. i'd like to at least get something basic started for them, and also keep my work well documented. Somewhat related, i was thinking of an invoice system that generates texinfo from emacs org-tables so i can view them in info, and print them. 06:28:59 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 06:29:08 hello 06:29:21 Adamant: I am not sure if both cases turn around and go back. 06:29:25 hello mrSpec 06:29:42 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-163.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:30:07 p_l: I would think being relatively inland you wouldn't have anything too awful 06:30:16 but I guess that was a bad assumption 06:31:53 just think of earthquakes in turkey and volcanoes in Italy and that's about it for Europe, and the winds that get up to Cat 1 hurricane force but bursty in places like France 06:32:18 question: sb-ext:compare-and-swap says it compares values using EQ. Isn't there some way to also make sure it would work for numbers and chars, too? 06:32:18 Adamant: yeah. It's moderate of moderates, namely you can get weather from inland russia, from south (to the point of research tracking down sand from Sahara), from the north etc 06:32:35 ah. 06:33:03 http://paste.lisp.org/display/88459 06:33:07 any idea why this conses so much 06:33:30 emacs-dwim: Your best bet is probably to just write Texinfo, but for what it's worth, I have recently been thinking that starting with a source format might be wrong, and we should have a definition of a bunch of CLOS classes for documentation that we can then format in whatever way we like. 06:34:56 xristos: You might be allocating space for rationals or for floats. 06:37:09 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:41:48 beach: Would there be any use to a reader macro that takes funcallable strings as templates? 06:42:03 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-206-71-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:42:11 dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:35 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:44:51 (#"This is a template for {(lookup-template-name (gethash (car todo) templates-to-write))}.") ;; allowing recursively changing between string templates and lisp forms 06:44:55 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:55 -!- Harag [n=phil@iburst-41-213-56-213.iburst.co.za] has left #lisp 06:47:15 beach: well, my example was wrong, but i meant using the {} as a sort of lambda list and they are all bound in parallel. That would avoid much formatting and concatenating. 06:47:16 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:47:27 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:47:31 |male_terran| [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:58 beach: or is format already way better? 06:48:14 -!- |male_terran| is now known as male_terran 06:48:14 beach: how do i divide without creation of ratios ? 06:48:41 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:48:41 xristos: floor? 06:49:03 i want single-float 06:49:08 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:23 (/ (single-float number-1) (single-float number-2)) 06:51:04 mishoo_ [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has joined #lisp 06:51:14 xristos: sorry, wrong window -- i'm falling asleep. 06:53:07 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 06:53:08 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:53:08 xristos: what about dividing by an extra 1.0? 06:54:50 ASau [n=user@91.76.56.159] has joined #lisp 06:56:15 xristos: ffloor 06:57:23 ok it's using /3 that now with types declared 06:57:35 i'll convert everything to fixed point 06:57:57 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-3-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:58:37 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:59:06 xristos: what about dividing by 255.0? 06:59:33 -!- emacs-dwim [n=user@cpe-74-71-11-230.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:00:51 unable to convert to multiplication with reciprocal 07:01:35 milanj [n=milan@79.101.212.235] has joined #lisp 07:01:37 -!- wasabi [n=wasabi@nttkyo713154.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-34672M: SIGTERM received; exit"] 07:01:50 emacs-dwim [n=user@cpe-74-71-11-230.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:02:51 emacs-dwim: Perhaps I am particularly dense today, but I still have no idea what problem you are trying to solve. 07:04:35 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:06:55 michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has joined #lisp 07:07:41 i want my templates to look like my documentation. But some parts will need to be calculated. -- and those parts include templates that i want to look like the documentation. #'format puts all the templates in the arglist; i want them nested. 07:07:47 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:07:56 emacs-dwim: What is a template in this context? 07:08:26 A string with missing pieces. 07:09:54 emacs-dwim: Can we start over? What is a template used for? 07:10:27 beach: It will be a document. 07:10:59 beach: -- or a component of one. 07:11:46 emacs-dwim: I am afraid I have to give up. You are only replacing too-general undefined terminology with more too-general undefined terminology, and I can't follow it. 07:12:17 emacs-dwim: So an example of a template would be the CLIM specification? 07:12:28 emacs-dwim: Because that specification is a document. 07:12:41 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.56.159] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:13:00 beach: yes. Say i want to generate the clim-spec. 07:13:01 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:13:05 emacs-dwim: Or might there be some other restrictions to those documents in order for them to be templates, like do they document existing code or something? 07:13:28 emacs-dwim: You don't genereate the CLIM spec. You write it. 07:14:04 beach: and i want to insert the function names from the :clim package into it programmatically. 07:14:27 emacs-dwim: No you don't. You want the code to adapt to the documentation, not the other way around. 07:15:43 emacs-dwim: But I see what you mean. There could be cases like that. 07:15:43 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:15:57 beach: yes, for a specification, but after experimenting and settling on a stable design, i want to document the current state before refining the documentation. 07:16:10 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:16:14 now we are getting somewhere. 07:18:16 -!- dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:18:47 emacs-dwim: It sounds like you may want to do what I said before, i.e., define a document as nested CLOS instances that can refer to symbols and other items in code. 07:20:59 [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.125] has joined #lisp 07:22:24 legumbre_ [n=user@190.135.38.5] has joined #lisp 07:23:17 I just got a bucketload of warnings from SLIME, saying that it's a bug in slime itself. 07:23:27 *Adlai* pastebins 07:23:44 beach: yes. 07:24:22 Adlai pasted "SLIME Fontification Bug" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88460 07:27:38 Adlai: Could you please also paste the relevant section in trivial-cas.lisp? 07:29:47 Adlai annotated #88460 "Relevant section of the file" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88460#1 07:29:57 tcr: I'm sorry you have to look at that. It's not pretty. 07:30:33 The *Warnings* buffer exploded right when I hit space after typing ccl in that read-conditional 07:30:56 hjpark [n=user@116.40.135.21] has joined #lisp 07:31:10 WFM, are you on HEAD? what emacs version? 07:31:32 but better send the whole-file to my nick at freebits dot de 07:31:37 ah, no, I haven't updated in a while... 07:31:44 beach pasted "For emacs-dwim : documentation" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88461 07:31:47 2009-08-31 07:32:15 emacs-dwim: I made an attempt a few years back. That code actually runs if you have McCLIM installed. 07:32:25 Adlai: the fontification code wasnt touched since then 07:33:04 hmm, the bug isn't showing up again now 07:33:38 (I tried typing that line over again) 07:34:34 kill the buffer, and open it again 07:34:49 beach: thanks! 07:35:03 tcr: opens fine. 07:35:24 emacs-dwim: It is no doubt wrong, but it shows some of the ideas I wanted to test at the time. 07:36:20 splittist [n=David@85.4.220.156] has joined #lisp 07:36:22 morning 07:36:27 hello splittist 07:37:32 Oh and I'm on Emacs 23.1.1 07:37:33 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:37:42 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:38:18 I found a bug involving NOT 07:39:59 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-27-166.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:40:22 0.202 | 0 | 4,425,618 | 0.0000000 | GL-UTILS::GAMMA-CORRECT 07:40:29 awesome :) 07:40:30 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:41:01 I have a read-conditional with NOT a bit before that in the file, so that might be it. 07:41:15 loxs [n=loxs@85-130-31-93.2073154325.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:03 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:42:18 Adlai: Can you show me the whole file? 07:43:51 tcr: sure, although the warnings aren't coming back. 07:44:37 Adlai annotated #88460 "Entire file" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88460#2 07:45:02 morphling [n=stefan@89.13.42.59] has joined #lisp 07:48:41 *sykopomp* was unable to take advantage of CAS goodness :( 07:48:44 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 07:50:07 -!- cddr [n=user@5ad962ef.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:58:52 Adlai: Hopefully fixed on HEAD 07:58:52 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:59:16 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:59:25 tcr: great, thank you. 08:02:30 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:02:53 ASau [n=user@91.76.56.159] has joined #lisp 08:04:41 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:05:23 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 08:07:26 -!- skeptomai|away [n=ncb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:07:38 skeptomai|away [n=nncb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:57 pkhuong: I implemented a new type of (unqueued) channel using sb-ext:compare-and-swap. It turned out to be about 100x slower than locks (because of various things that need to also be CASed) 08:13:38 nha [n=prefect@85.4.174.31] has joined #lisp 08:16:17 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 08:20:25 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.56.159] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:20:35 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:22:49 HET2 [n=diman@80.3.31.126] has joined #lisp 08:25:00 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229145077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:26:18 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 08:30:00 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp122.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:32:25 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:32:44 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:36:28 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-59-41.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:37:21 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:39:08 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:46 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:41:23 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:41:48 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:42:14 -!- splittist [n=David@85.4.220.156] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:43:22 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:20 is there a use for a tool to generate projects? directory, README, asd, packages.lisp and similar? 08:44:30 i seem to do that once every two days or so 08:44:56 (asdf:project 'asdf:create :project-name) seems shweet 08:44:56 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:45:37 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:46:05 we have a new-project repo for that: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.new-project;a=summary 08:46:19 you can not make it both sane and flexible enough 08:46:32 iow, it's not worth it imho 08:46:43 attila_lendvai: don't be so humble 08:46:53 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 08:46:56 attila_lendvai: you guys are kicking and taking names 08:47:07 clbuild make-project 08:48:01 (attila_lendvai is right of course. "clbuild make-project" matches my naming conventions, and everyone else will find it not flexible enough.) 08:48:34 But I thought that it might be useful for newbies, too, complementing Xach's tutorial. 08:48:34 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:49:10 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:49:12 fusss: non-native english here, i don't get that kicking sentence... 08:49:38 attila_lendvai: "kicking ass and taking names", meaning "you are doing very well, specially compared to others" 08:50:20 sykopomp: no "compared to others" :-) 08:50:45 ah, ok, thanks for the clarification! :) 08:51:01 fusss: not necessarily in this case, no. 08:52:10 btw, someone take a look at this piece of redundant "architecture". http://www.opensymphony.com/oscore/api/com/opensymphony/util/TextUtils.html 08:54:09 *attila_lendvai* looked and runs screaming 08:54:41 thinking of cl-quasi-quote calmed me down, though... :) 08:55:07 the whole of OpenSymphony is froth, imo 08:55:31 SiteMesh has a book on it and possible a conference as well .. and it's just a screen-scrapper 08:56:00 that's what they call 'wrapping with decorators': you scrape someone else's site on your users behalf, in real time 08:57:27 Quartz is decent, but you can get a decent scheduler on top of a kickass message queue anyway; fireup ZeroMQ and do magic 09:00:03 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-149-175.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:00:12 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:01:20 Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 09:02:23 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 09:03:49 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:07:03 smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:03 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:07:19 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:08:34 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:12:12 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:12:48 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@88.174.11.170] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:13:06 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:13 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 09:20:13 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:20:28 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:22:06 -!- smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:27:23 Is there an easy way to get paragraph filling in html? 09:27:40 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:27:56 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:27:59 I do not understand why browser don't do that themselves 09:28:17 paragraph filling? 09:28:27 word wrapping 09:28:28