00:01:29 -!- seangrove [n=user@173-11-104-25-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:03:30 -!- jlf [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:04:29 xach: did ITA ever put source up on common-lisp.net? 00:05:39 wgl: yes 00:05:45 it is called qitab right now, i think 00:05:53 poilu is one project from it 00:07:10 coderdad [n=coderdad@156.110.24.142] has joined #lisp 00:08:40 newdevide [n=kenan@88.238.45.48] has joined #lisp 00:08:42 Oh, duh. Thanks. 00:09:11 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@156.110.24.142] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:09:37 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441179.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:10:10 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:10:19 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:10:29 mnl [n=mnl@78.52.205.241] has joined #lisp 00:11:02 is the commands like "./clbuild listener" or "./clbuild climacs" removed from the latest versions? 00:11:09 they don't work 00:12:23 seangrove [n=user@173-11-104-25-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:03 <_3b> newdevide: works better if you say how they didn't work, preferably with details pasted to lisppaste 00:14:28 <_3b> looks like you might be missing a 'run' from the middle of those commands though 00:14:29 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:15:06 :) 00:15:21 exactly :) thanks. 00:16:57 i saw the commands at http://www.lichteblau.com/blubba/clbuild-orig/doc/ but there wasn't an example in which used "run" and i look at the command help, there even haven't seen listener command so i thought it is removed from commands 00:17:02 now it works 00:17:05 thanks :) 00:17:40 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D8B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:46 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 00:19:16 redblue [i=star@ppp077.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:19:29 -!- newdevide [n=kenan@88.238.45.48] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:19:47 <_3b> that page looks old, try http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/ or whatever docs come with clbuild 00:19:55 <_3b> (no idea if those are any more current though :) 00:20:17 <_3b> or ./clbuild help 00:24:06 -!- maskd [n=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:25:46 Aviado [n=jack@adsl-69-155-212-5.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:30 I'm trying to use drakma to grab I'm Feeling Lucky results from google 00:26:46 by taking the fourth return value of http-request, which is the final URL 00:26:54 but it pastes the query parameters onto the end of that 00:26:57 how do I remove them? 00:27:05 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 00:29:16 -!- Shamwow_ [n=eric@d23-164.uoregon.edu] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:32:47 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:32:50 -!- Aviado [n=jack@adsl-69-155-212-5.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has left #lisp 00:33:41 is there a way to tell read-line that the CR is a line-ending on unix? 00:34:02 madnificent: it is not part of the standard. the implementation might have a way. 00:34:22 Xach: do you -perhaps- have an idea for sbcl? 00:35:39 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D657.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:35:39 maskd [n=maskd@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe59:ad66] has joined #lisp 00:36:59 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:37:00 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 00:37:29 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 00:39:29 coderdad [n=coderdad@156.110.24.142] has joined #lisp 00:42:32 Also, how do I get drakma to accept unicode? 00:42:52 I get "... is not a LATIN-1 character." 00:42:55 *madnificent* is writing his own micro-thing :) 00:42:58 for any fancy input 00:43:07 Ralith: do you have a unicode lisp? 00:43:20 madnificent: SBCL 00:44:00 Ralith: drakma is unicode aware on unicode capable lisps. what are you trying to do? 00:44:33 -!- rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has left #lisp 00:45:43 H4ns: (drakma:http-request "http://www.google.com/search" :parameters (list (cons "q" string)) (cons "btnI" "I'm Feeling Lucky"))) 00:46:08 Ralith: are you doing that from within slime? 00:46:09 madnificent: in sbcl it is not easily configurable 00:47:41 Xach: it's ok, I'm tackling it through cl-ppcre for this thing now :) 00:47:43 thanks 00:49:18 H4ns: the code is being executed by a SBCL that is attached to slime, yes 00:50:01 Ok, head versions of climacs and clx are not really compilation-friendly. 00:50:04 the error is in flexi-streams 00:51:12 Ralith: does your post data contain non-ascii characters? 00:51:44 H4ns: yes, that's the entire point. 00:51:56 Ralith: do you want help? 00:52:26 what? 00:52:37 I'd like to know how to get flexi-streams to not barf when fed unicode 00:53:01 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:30 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:55:15 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:55:24 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 00:56:13 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:14 -!- djkthx is now known as yacin 01:00:15 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:00:37 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 01:01:28 so does flexi-streams not support unicode or something? 01:02:00 What does the manual say? 01:03:03 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:03:11 seems to support it 01:03:14 but error. 01:03:41 <_3b> well, don't tell it to encode to latin1 if you aren't feeding it latin1 :) 01:04:23 <_3b> or rather, aren't feeding it something which can be encoded in latin1 01:05:19 *drakma-default-external-format* 01:06:38 that sounds promising. 01:07:16 Ralith: now read more of http://weitz.de/drakma/ 01:07:38 what's the Right Place to change the value of that? 01:07:47 the main function? 01:08:33 <_3b> depends on where you want it changed, you cold just use the :external-format-out arg to http-request and not qorry about the default 01:08:40 you can change it whenever you feel you need to. you can also bind it around the call to drakma 01:08:45 <_3b> or bind it locally, or set it globally, or whatever 01:09:38 I'd like to set it globally 01:12:08 dropping it in main for now 01:16:59 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 01:22:17 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:22:52 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:23:47 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 01:24:44 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 01:26:10 -!- cads [n=max@c-24-30-55-172.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:26:13 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:30:03 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:30:04 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@156.110.24.142] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:44:45 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:45:21 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 01:46:57 tsuru [n=user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:35 I have opened a file, is there some way to clear the file and start writing from the start on it again? 01:48:12 madnificent: if you want to stay portable, you'll need to close and open it with :if-exists :supersede 01:48:37 H4ns: that's a bit sad... thanks 01:48:48 madnificent: non-portably, you can propably do something with ftruncate, but you'll need to properly deal with any buffers. 01:49:10 H4ns: I'd prefer to stay portable... I was hoping that something nice would exist for it 01:49:49 madnificent: no, the ansi standard does not specify file truncation. what is bad about opening the file afresh? 01:49:50 there is also :if-exists :append 01:50:31 tsuru: true, also :if-exists :new-version, but he wanted to start freshly. 01:50:37 and :overwrite 01:50:45 ah 01:50:52 H4ns: It is a bit more overhead than I would've wished for (and I don't know if I trust filesystems to operate on it quickly)... Nothing important :) 01:51:29 madnificent: contemporary file systems can open and create files at impressive rates. 01:52:01 H4ns: but will they reflect the fact that the file has changed towards a reading process fast? 01:52:45 that is to say. By saying :supersede, the file handles of other programs will still be reading from that some file, right? 01:52:59 madnificent: i'm not sure if i understand what you are trying to do. are you using files to communicate between processes? 01:53:19 H4ns: yes I am, I need a quick hack to communicate with some dull thing 01:54:11 the important thing is, that the next process should always have the latest value when reading from the file (linux) 01:54:45 madnificent: once you've written to a file, you cannot influence the file pointers of other readers. 01:55:04 madnificent: also, you need to be aware of the buffering involved. 01:55:06 chavo_ [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:08 so, this will create a new file and will thus leave the other readers with an older file? 01:55:39 H4ns: I've gotten it to work outside of lisp, perhaps I can reuse part of that code to get it running 01:55:53 madnificent: even if it truncated the existing file, the file pointers of the readers would stay where they are. those readers would see new data only after their respective file position. 01:56:08 they reset their reading point 01:56:43 madnificent: in such a scenario, i'd buffer the data and only write to the file once i'm sure i want to write the file 01:56:49 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 01:57:03 madnificent: i.e. write to a string stream, then at the end write the string to the file. 01:57:23 I already have the string I need to write 01:57:45 madnificent: you said you wanted to "re-set" the file to the beginning. 01:58:30 it's 4 am, and I need to showcase it tomorrow, I'm going to reuse the already written code. Then I can just keep outputting to the file in a single stream 01:58:36 whatever. 01:58:38 H4ns: nvm, I'll clean it up later :) I want to go to bed 01:58:42 but thanks! 01:59:03 I wanted to clean out the file and start writing to it again, if it matters 01:59:37 "clean out", uh. 01:59:40 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:03 make it empty, remove the data, that sort of thing 02:00:19 the equivalent of doing echo "foo" > filename 02:00:54 (open "foo" :direction :output :if-exists :supersede) is as close as you can get. 02:01:13 but then, as i wrote, you're doing something wrong if you use files that way. 02:01:25 H4ns: I'm currently unable to test it, so I'm going to take the route I've taken before 02:01:42 I have acknowledged the fact that it is not correct too btw... yet at 4am things take a different route 02:02:24 -!- Dodek [n=dodek@sandbox.dbc.wroc.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:02:27 Dodek [n=dodek@sandbox.dbc.wroc.pl] has joined #lisp 02:04:48 dialtone [n=dialtone@98.210.155.172] has joined #lisp 02:05:18 i don't know anything about the format of the data in that file, but you could also use (file-position f 0) and just overwrite the data 02:05:35 H4ns: any plans to integrate kqueue/epoll in hunchentoot ? (or use iolib) 02:05:54 as long as you always write the same number of bytes, the write is small (one block) and you call (finish-output) after writing, you should be fine. 02:06:08 H4ns: ah! great! 02:06:10 xristos: i don't have any plans to do that, no. 02:07:16 xristos: it's not that i don't think it would be good, but i don't have any current need for that. 02:07:28 understood 02:08:53 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:09:27 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 02:12:26 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:15:12 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:16:31 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 02:19:47 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:23:37 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:23:54 clisp is giving me error messages without telling me what row the error is on. How do I find out what row I should look at? 02:24:28 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:28:33 Retardedpope: By grepping for the the line that contains the error. 02:28:46 rtoym: :) 02:29:05 rtoym: jet lag is _very_ bad this time. i hope i'll make it to the office "tomorrow" 02:29:15 H4ns: Hello! 02:29:23 No problem. I'm not in any hurry. 02:29:34 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 02:29:51 rtoym: i guess so. the build will be the last job for jabberwock before it is decommissioned. 02:30:19 Really? Bummer. Why is jabberwock being decommissioned? 02:30:51 rtoym: it is too loud. i have a powerbook g4 to play with when i want ppc 32bit. 02:31:20 What kind of machine is jabberwock? 02:31:25 rtoym: i used it as a router for some time, but i got tired of it and got myself a router appliance 02:32:07 rtoym: oh well, the jabberwock i'm talking about is the mac g4 mdd that is switched off right now. the address is currently routed to a mere pc named horst running freebsd :) 02:32:51 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:33:04 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 02:33:31 I once used my linux box as a router for my 2 machine network long ago. Learned a lot. Like how much I hated configuring it all, so I got a little router instead. 02:33:50 male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:29 rtoym: same here. mac's are particularily unpleasant to work with when they don't have a screen and mouse. 02:35:03 anyway, i'll power it up tomorrow and shoot you an email when it is available. need to try to sleep now. bye! 02:35:27 ok. No rush. I probably won't be able to get to it until middle of next week. 02:35:36 rtoym: ok. 02:35:38 Aloha! 02:35:39 *waves* 02:41:33 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:42:40 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:46:06 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:46:51 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:47:37 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 02:54:42 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:55:10 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 02:55:33 Aviado [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:39 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 03:00:25 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:00:27 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 03:02:03 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:24 -!- marioxcc is now known as mari 03:04:31 -!- mari is now known as marioxcc 03:05:05 -!- marioxcc is now known as jlkl 03:05:08 -!- jlkl is now known as marioxcc 03:06:09 -!- seangrove [n=user@173-11-104-25-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:07:58 minion: memo for Xof: initialising random states from small integers isn't necessarily a bad thing. Of course, we want to avoid naive seeding, but a priori, not that bad. Ideally, a fuller interface should also be provided. More thoughts on this after I've spoken (or tried to) with a couple profs in simulation and MC. 03:07:59 Remembered. I'll tell Xof when he/she/it next speaks. 03:12:13 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:12:35 -!- Aviado [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 03:12:48 pkhuong: It's probably not too bad to seed with an integer. 03:16:11 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-216-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:27 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:20:48 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:24:13 smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:44 jlf [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 03:26:52 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-105-179.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:28:55 -!- h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Segmentation Fault"] 03:31:51 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:26 hi 03:37:22 ace4016 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error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:46:24 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:46:31 QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 04:53:01 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:54:52 BrianRice [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:24 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:59:42 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 05:02:13 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:02:21 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@76.104.220.73] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:02:21 clhs restart-case 05:02:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_rst_ca.htm 05:02:59 c|mell [n=cmell@203.95.104.74] has joined #lisp 05:04:12 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:17 -!- zeroish [n=zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:06:18 Good morning! 05:07:16 G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.97.90] has joined #lisp 05:07:16 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:07:22 -!- marioxcc [n=user@201.132.51.59] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:07:34 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:07:47 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:08:00 Ok, updated desire docs with information about seed definitions file, which is quite useful in wishmaster mode. 05:09:48 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:10:17 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:10:27 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:10:56 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:11:14 dmiles_afk 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[n=paul@76.15.195.230] has joined #lisp 05:22:28 More desr doc updates. 05:23:12 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:12 -!- nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 05:25:24 -!- smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:26:05 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:26:29 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has joined #lisp 05:28:42 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:29:05 nullman [n=nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:31:06 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:31:34 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-58-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:33:12 -!- QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:33:26 holly_ 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timed out)] 06:35:25 -!- KingNatoG5_ is now known as KingNatoG5 06:36:18 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp077.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:41:33 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 06:43:22 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-206-8-51.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:47:31 _3b, the new tpd2 works with the new parenscript, so please try it out 06:48:21 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@203.95.104.74] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:48:39 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:49:53 splittist [n=dmurray@85.2.38.206] has joined #lisp 06:49:55 morning 06:52:31 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:52:49 good morning 06:54:28 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:55:02 shyam_k [n=user@117.204.87.183] has joined #lisp 06:55:27 ASau [n=user@host217-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 07:04:19 redblue [i=star@ppp035.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 07:06:22 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 07:10:11 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:10:40 rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:11:49 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:13:12 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-34-110-14.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:31 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:15:41 dialtone [n=dialtone@98.210.155.172] has joined #lisp 07:16:05 -!- dialtone_ [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:17:41 serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06e03f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:50 good morning 07:19:09 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:20:12 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-34-93.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:20:59 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-134-7-174.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:23:05 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D8B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:28:50 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:32:57 -!- dwh [n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:35:38 lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-211-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:20 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-30-169.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:41:50 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590e8439.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:15 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 07:49:54 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 07:52:52 -!- sbahra is now known as sbr 07:53:18 -!- sbr is now known as Samy 07:53:48 levy [n=levy@apn-89-223-166-136.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 07:56:03 smanek 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pkhuong: initialising random states from small integers isn't necessarily a bad thing. Of course, we want to avoid naive seeding, but a priori, not that bad. Ideally, a fuller interface should also be provided. More thoughts on this after I've spoken (or tried to) with a couple profs in simulation and MC. 09:02:09 thanks, pkhuong 09:02:24 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 09:03:01 SBCL - Designed by Canadian Professors since 2009 09:03:04 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 09:03:35 hi Xof 09:04:29 Go Canada! 09:05:27 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:05:49 -!- QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:06:15 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 09:06:38 pkhuong: is not yet a professor, eh. 09:07:06 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:08:11 What's the best way to do a release with darcs? 09:12:24 tcr: darcs tag -m "New version message" x.y.z 09:13:10 then: darcs dist -d name-x.y.z.tar.gz 09:13:31 thank you! 09:13:49 blast_awaycheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:49 jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-14-238.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:15:00 If I'd like to split a string on a certain charcter, which function could I use? 09:15:32 [Jackal] [n=Jackal@118.94.86.120] has joined #lisp 09:16:12 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 09:16:34 jtza8: split on every occurence of the character? 09:17:10 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:17:15 ... yep, for example in Ruby: "1|2|3|4".split("|") 09:17:31 => ["1", "2", "3", "4"] 09:17:54 -!- blast_hardcheese is now known as Thick_McRunfast 09:18:11 Harag pasted "More Lispy Way ?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88421 09:18:13 KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 09:18:45 If so, search for split-sequence on cliki, or use cl-ppcre:split 09:18:56 I could use a regex, but that would be over-kill, I guess. 09:19:06 Anyway, thanks :) 09:19:17 -!- blast_awaycheese is now known as blast_hardcheese 09:19:39 -!- blast_hardcheese is now known as blast_awaycheese 09:19:42 Harag: Your calls to FORMAT are bogus 09:19:53 -!- blast_awaycheese is now known as blast_hardcheese 09:19:54 And it's not clear what you actually want to do 09:20:16 ok yea i see the formats are wrong 09:20:39 I have a set of data and I have a set of calcs that I have to apply to the data 09:21:18 do i make the data a global variable or is there a better way? 09:21:53 i end up with a set of data that is potencially different from the original set 09:22:23 so i dont want to change the data set via side effectes...or atleast i dont think i should 09:22:26 Perhaps you want map-hash-table? 09:22:32 tcr: that a better explenation? 09:23:07 Sorry? 09:23:12 I dont wnat to run throught the whole hash table if i use map it is for the calculations 09:23:42 -!- pr_ [n=pr@p579CA948.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:24:20 rudi [n=rudi@mail.ist.tu-graz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 09:25:08 (defun update-hash-table (ht key fn) (setf (gethash key ht) (funcall fn (gethash key ht)) ht) 09:25:33 (update-hash-table (update-hash-table *your-hash-table* :foo #'1+) :bar #'1-) 09:25:49 Perhaps something like that? 09:26:27 yes 09:26:49 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:26:52 recursion did not even cross my mind 09:26:54 darn 09:27:30 to many years using other ms programming languages...I am battling to think lispy 09:27:49 dmiles [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:18 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:28:20 tcr: tanx 09:29:31 To relieve you, there is no recursion involved 09:30:05 eish 09:30:28 but update-hash-table is calling update-hash-table? 09:30:33 please explain 09:30:53 tcr: you mean maphash? 09:31:06 danlei` [n=user@pD954EF22.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:14 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2D770.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:31:18 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 09:31:33 sykopomp: maphash is cumbersome, map-hash-table is in alexandria and it returns a copy of the hash-table after the mapping operation 09:31:42 anybody on OSX and Carbon Emacs? 09:31:48 +slime? 09:32:14 tcr: 'cumbersome'? 09:32:33 It's like MAPC 09:32:56 jdz: cvs build on PPC here... 09:33:05 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:33:37 for me on OSX and Carbon Emacs capital m is treated as Meta key, even when typing small m with Caps Lock... 09:33:39 only in buffers with slime 09:33:57 tcr: there's no such symbol in alexandria. 09:34:28 i tried finding the problem once, but failed. maybe somebody else has this problem, too? 09:35:12 sykopomp: Ah well then my patch wasn't applied 09:35:23 -!- ASau [n=user@host217-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:36:03 sykopomp: http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/darcs/alexandria/hash-tables.lisp 09:36:11 jdz: you've got me there. What's your slime version? 09:36:46 and you've set mac-command-modifier and mac-option-modifier appropriately? 09:37:04 tcr: I dont want to nag ...but please explain your comment about no recursion being involved in your example. 09:37:18 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:37:35 Harag: (defun foo (&optional (x 0)) (+ x 1)) (foo (foo)) 09:37:46 Harag: The '(foo (foo))' is not recursive, if that is what you meant. 09:37:46 Harag: Recursion is when the function definition contains a self-call 09:37:55 girzel: hmm, have not set those variables manually 09:38:00 girzel: let me try 09:38:20 tcr: thanx 09:38:26 Harag: Note that (foo (foo)) is the same as (let ((a (foo))) (foo a)) 09:38:38 I've got command-modifier to 'meta and option-modifier to nil, but I don't see why that would affect slime in particular 09:38:38 Harag: The resulting Control Flow Graph contains a loop in case of recursion 09:38:38 (In this example, anyway) 09:38:44 -!- smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:39:06 (Eh forget what I just said) 09:39:06 girzel: i have them the same as you 09:39:21 what's your slime version? 09:39:35 girzel: the problem is that the bahavior is only with slime 09:40:05 my slime is some time ago from CVS 09:40:21 have you tried C-h c M 09:40:33 just to see if it's getting bound to something weird? 09:40:44 well, whenever i type shift+m it's treated as meta prefix 09:40:56 land waiting for followup key 09:41:04 *and 09:42:13 sorry, I can't think of what would be causing that, or how to fix it apart from updating slime. 09:42:16 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-60.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:42:27 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:42:40 jdz pasted "C-h m in slime buffer" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88424 09:43:02 girzel: can you please compare your mode description with mine, especially the M key 09:43:24 hang on... 09:44:43 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 09:45:44 ASau [n=user@host217-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 09:45:55 that looks totally different from mine, and is label Lisp mode, not slime mode 09:46:28 -!- mnl [n=mnl@78.52.205.241] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:46:33 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:46 Actually mine is labeled REPL mode 09:46:51 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 09:47:11 well, mine was from a lisp buffer (with slime enabled, ofc) 09:47:51 -!- blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Coyote finally caught me"] 09:48:15 blast_awaycheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:18 oh right. In a lisp buffer mine looks like yours, without the M binding 09:48:21 -!- blast_awaycheese is now known as blast_hardcheese 09:48:30 damn 09:48:34 :) 09:48:59 ok then, thanks. the problem must be with my personal setup then. 09:49:39 step one would be updating slime, I think 09:49:58 just did :) 09:50:05 but no change 09:50:25 i think i found problem 09:50:29 try starting emacs from command line with the -Q flag set 09:50:49 jdz annotated #88424 "Trouble cause" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88424#1 09:51:46 my bad, wrong key setting 09:51:58 -!- alvinator [n=alvinato@122.3.125.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:52:30 alvinator [n=alvinato@58.69.141.60] has joined #lisp 09:54:11 jdz: you want (kbd "M-i) instead of "M-i" there, I think 09:54:34 s/"M-i)/"M-i")/ 09:54:37 i have "\M-i" syntax in other places 09:54:44 dunno why i had dropped a slash there... 09:54:54 and anyway i don't use that key binding 09:54:59 aha 09:55:00 maybe because it did not work 09:55:48 I like the `kbd' macro, it lets you do stuff like (kbd "C-c SPC") 09:56:12 -!- egomosis [n=egomosis@222.240.176.18] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 09:56:14 tcr: in that example of yours does the hash get coppied or is a "reference" being returned from update-hash-table? Because the hash is potentialy very large 09:56:21 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:56:49 rudi: yes, i'll have to start using that, too. thanks for suggestion. 09:59:29 pixel5 [n=pixel@copei.de] has joined #lisp 10:01:28 hsaliak [n=hsaliak@office.osgdc.org] has joined #lisp 10:01:30 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 10:01:36 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:01:39 tcr: or put another way since the hash table in your example is a "global" it is change already so why return it? 10:02:01 -!- Thick_McRunfast [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:02:20 Harag: so you can conveniently chain function calls operating on the same hash-table 10:03:24 tcr: ok I think i understand the chaining , but is it a reference or a copy of the hash table? 10:03:45 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:06:19 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:06:22 there used to be a swank:present-in-emacs, what's the new name of it? 10:07:55 tcr: what i think i am asking is that would it not be more efficient if to do it with intentional varaible capture ...sorry I have glimpses of what is possible in lisp but am battling to implement my limited understanding ...thus the million questions 10:08:09 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 10:08:48 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 10:09:10 Harag: why do you think the hash table might get copied? 10:10:50 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:11:40 rudi: i dont know/remeber enough of how lisp treats a variable that is why I am asking ...its bad thinking habbits from old vb days...if i think about it now i would suspect that the hash is a reference so it should not be coppied 10:13:53 to a first approximation, you can think "everything is a pointer" 10:13:56 Harag: you want to say "how lisp treats a /value/" (since functions return values, not "variables") 10:14:13 it's wrong, but it's a better approximation than "I am worried about copying" 10:14:42 what Xof said ... "everything is a pointer, except I don't have to call free() on it" 10:15:18 rudi: do you still have an interest in sbcl external-formats? 10:15:33 not at the moment 10:15:53 (65 pages, but it's only the raw collection of papers at the moment) 10:16:20 keep going! 10:16:49 thanks - gotta submit this year cause I'll be a postdoc in Oslo next January! 10:17:28 thanx guys that makes sense ... 10:17:32 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:17:39 congratulations! (apart from the Oslo bit... sheesh, Oslo in January) 10:18:18 well, it can only get better - and I'm on a position they'll call "academic programmer", with a focus on tool development instead of paper writing 10:18:27 so, yay 10:21:02 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 10:22:02 what kind of tool? 10:22:04 bdowning_ [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:05 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:22:12 something Web 4.0? 10:22:39 nope, compiler / interpreter for an OO modeling language they're developing 10:22:59 plus eclipse plugin for same, but every job has its downsides 10:23:02 -!- bdowning_ is now known as bdowning 10:24:12 I think my confusion stems from the fact that in vb and C# if you pass a "value" (object) into a function and then return it in that function, a copy of that value (object) would be returned, unless you explicitly specified that you where passing the value in by reference (something like a pointer)...or at least that is how i remember it 10:24:45 thanx again for the help every one 10:26:31 Guthur [n=Michael@host86-147-40-39.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:28:21 -!- udzinari [n=user@195.212.29.179] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:28:23 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:28:29 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has joined #lisp 10:29:05 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:29:12 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 10:30:50 Athas` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:30:52 -!- Athas` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:31:26 -!- roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 10:33:29 roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 10:34:10 -!- vu3rdd [n=user@164.164.250.10] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:35:26 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 10:35:54 -!- G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.97.90] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 10:36:12 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 10:37:07 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 10:37:13 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:38:29 levy: what did it do? 10:39:06 levy: ChangeLog tells it was removed in 2007 10:44:12 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:48:47 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 10:51:42 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [] 10:52:39 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp035.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 10:53:11 tcr, put the value in the repl as a presentation 10:58:54 cddr``` [n=user@mail.formedix.com] has joined #lisp 10:58:54 -!- cddr`` [n=user@mail.formedix.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:59:59 -!- ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [] 11:01:43 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 11:04:00 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:06:11 swank::present-repl-results? 11:06:11 -!- alvinator [n=alvinato@58.69.141.60] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:06:34 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:15 stassats, that's it, weird name though 11:07:48 well, there's also slime-presentation-streams 11:10:33 -!- blandest [n=user@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:12:13 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-29.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:12:21 ok, i don't really know what does it do 11:22:25 malcolm_reynolds [n=malc@mreynolds.cs.ucl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:25:37 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:30:53 francogrex [n=user@212-123-27-210.iFiber.telenet-ops.be] has joined #lisp 11:31:52 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:36:02 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@tmo-104-176.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:39:37 -!- malcolm_reynolds [n=malc@mreynolds.cs.ucl.ac.uk] has quit [] 11:42:12 -!- francogrex [n=user@212-123-27-210.iFiber.telenet-ops.be] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:46:35 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229144160.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:47:03 in a macro could i search and replace symbols, say replace (func arg1 arg2) with (throw :label (list arg1 arg2)) 11:47:13 thats is actually my specific requirement there 11:48:14 you could do one better, and flet FUNC to do just htat 11:49:11 antifuchs cheers i'll check out flet, embarrassingly i have only seen flet not checked out its functionality 11:49:17 list structure modification is just one step above text replacement (that is, to do it right, you need to know a lot about the context). environment modification has slightly nicer semantics... 11:53:21 yrk [n=yrk@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 11:54:24 what does a "bad type argument" error on SBCL mean (and why doesn't it land my in the debugger with break-on-signals)? 11:54:32 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:56:24 Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:42 minion: tell yrk about lisppaste? 11:56:43 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 11:56:51 crhodes@dunstaple:~/lisp/sbcl$ find . -type f |xargs grep bad.type.argument 11:56:51 crhodes@dunstaple:~/lisp/sbcl$ 11:57:01 grep -i (-: 11:57:18 hey, look, you're right 11:57:49 it means that you've failed to call ERROR correctly, then 11:59:00 also, what's the value of *break-on-signals*? 11:59:17 antifuchs: t 11:59:19 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:33 then I guess it's what xof says 11:59:51 ln5 [n=ln5@nordutug-gw.nordu.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:40 ikki [n=ikki@200.95.162.30] has joined #lisp 12:00:54 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:01:30 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:01:30 antifuchs i think flet will do the job nicely, cheers 12:01:36 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:01:50 hum. Until sbcl allows for off-line debug info (if ever), didn't nikodemus implement some gizmo to override the user's optimization settings? Could I then force (debug 0) on the overall compilation? 12:02:01 Guthur: welcome (: 12:02:06 Fare: only overriding upwards 12:02:10 I'll look for funky errors calls then. thanks to everyone for the exceedingly quick reply. 12:02:23 sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy ? 12:03:13 hum. Would a special variable that optionally keeps the fileinfo and date info blank be acceptable upstream? 12:04:59 plus maybe another or same special variable to force the information back when I load the fasl 12:05:20 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:06:00 what would be the most elegant way to increase determinism without rewriting everything? 12:09:24 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has joined #lisp 12:09:57 hello 12:10:33 hi 12:10:41 hi Fare 12:12:05 Xof: do you think special variables (or maybe rather special flags to compile-file and load) would be OK to push upstream? 12:13:25 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:07 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-134-7-174.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:15:23 szia :) 12:15:38 szia? 12:15:42 hello fe[nl]ix 12:15:50 hello all :) 12:15:53 is that hungarian for hello? 12:16:05 yes 12:16:09 *attila_lendvai* is struggling under the revenge of his cut tonsils 12:16:18 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 12:16:34 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483ED79.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:35 kudos go to all SBCL developers :) 12:16:40 they conspire in their formaldehyde bottle? 12:17:04 no idea how, could even be a voodoo doll... but it works! :) 12:17:40 *Fare* removes a pin from attila's doll and see what the result is... 12:18:57 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:16 the problem is that i feel mild urge to cough... now, that's something i don't want to try... i sneezed one yesterday, since then i know how to stop sneezing when it's only half-way out... :) 12:19:25 *Fare* wonders about his plans for fork-based computations in xcvb, and realizes it's hard to have it both portable and minimalistic 12:19:44 -!- blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has left #lisp 12:19:54 yet the target-side code needs to be minimal and not have dependencies, or it will badly interact with a lot of stuff 12:21:23 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 12:21:28 *attila_lendvai* wonders how much easier/different xcvb would be if we were not dealing with text files, but rather identities and graph diff-ing/cloning 12:21:56 attila_lendvai, not that much more actually 12:22:14 -!- yrk [n=yrk@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit ["ERC Version 5.1.2 (CVS) $Revision: 1.809 $ (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:22:26 thanks to write readably and read, of which there are scant uses, I don't have to worry too much about that 12:22:56 my main problems are that just like ASDF, the "driver" part that's loaded in the target must be small and self-sufficient. 12:23:58 if it depended on anything beside the implementation, then compiling THAT thing with xcvb would lead to "interesting" bootstrap problems. 12:24:52 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001ee5019f0c-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:15 how "portable" will this portable stuff actually be? (Will xcvb work the same way on SBCL and CCL, or will the focus be on one of them? I'm thinking cfasls and that sort of thing.) 12:26:48 lichtblau, currently it works mostly the same in SBCL and CCL, except that CCL doesn't have cfasls (but compiles and loads much faster, anyway) 12:27:04 you can disable cfasl support with sbcl 12:27:13 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 12:27:21 it's as "portable" as CL code ever is. 12:28:11 the hardest implementation to get right will be ECL that has a slightly different model -- but actually, the xcvb model of compilation should match ecl's nicely, so it should be easier than what I had to do with cl-launch. 12:31:44 Fare: translate xcvb to elisp 12:32:28 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 12:32:42 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:33:42 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:17 fe[nl]ix, how would that help? 12:34:38 you mean, translate it in code with no non-lexical variable whatsoever? 12:34:42 Fare: so that you run xcvb in emacs 12:35:07 fe[nl]ix, sure. Will you port iolib to elisp so I can rely on it for IO? 12:35:29 there's no need for iolib if you have emacs 12:36:30 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 12:36:39 I suppose there's no support for waiting in iolib's event loop 12:37:46 is there support for events that are non-fd's, say a lock-protected flag to tell the loop "look here, there are non-epoll things waiting" 12:37:46 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:37:48 -!- Jafet1 is now known as jafet 12:38:07 does it support any fairness and/or priorities in the handling? 12:38:09 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483ED79.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:38:15 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:38:36 (does libev, for the matter?) 12:38:39 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 12:39:07 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 12:39:18 Fare: none of that 12:39:28 Fare: what do you mean by "waiting in the event loop" ? 12:40:07 -!- rudi [n=rudi@mail.ist.tu-graz.ac.at] has quit ["Client exciting"] 12:41:00 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:41:09 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-227.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:42:02 waitpid() sigchld, signalfd, etc. 12:42:47 I have a trivial protocol for waiting and registering handlers to run when a child is reaped 12:43:51 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 12:45:39 -!- vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:45:54 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.133.119] has joined #lisp 12:46:07 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-105-179.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:46:34 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 12:47:21 udzinari [n=user@nat/ibm/x-tptstimbbojvqzul] has joined #lisp 12:48:04 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Success] 12:49:26 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 12:49:49 -!- binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has left #lisp 12:50:00 binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has joined #lisp 12:50:59 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483ED79.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:22 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:55:34 -!- cddr``` [n=user@mail.formedix.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:55:55 cddr``` [n=user@mail.formedix.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:18 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:41 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:59:48 rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:03:29 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.213.142] has joined #lisp 13:04:15 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.136.232] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:04:19 ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:52 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 13:05:13 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-82-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 13:08:44 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:10:35 is it necessary to stop profiling in sb-sprof when reporting? 13:12:14 Isx [n=g_isaias@190.34.101.140] has joined #lisp 13:13:26 -!- roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 13:17:22 -!- Soulmann [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:17:30 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-7-167.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:19:30 marioxcc [n=user@200.77.71.120] has joined #lisp 13:22:46 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001ee5019f0c-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:28:37 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 13:29:12 -!- jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:29:16 -!- Jafet1 is now known as Jafet 13:29:44 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:29:44 -!- pixel5 [n=pixel@copei.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:29:44 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:29:44 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:29:44 -!- lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-211-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:29:44 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:29:44 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:29:44 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:29:44 -!- lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:29:44 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:31:50 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:02 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:32:22 angel_ [n=angel@221.223.126.169] has joined #lisp 13:32:48 can anyone give me a macro definition of with-open-file 13:32:59 M-. can 13:33:08 thanks 13:33:18 do you know what i mean? 13:33:58 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 13:34:04 angel: The interesting part of that is unwind-protect. 13:34:46 (defmacro with-open-file ((stream pathname &rest args) &body body) `(call-with-open-file (lambda (stream) ,@body) pathname ,@args)) 13:35:36 billstclair [n=billstcl@dsl-65-219-213-82.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:09 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 13:36:11 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:36:38 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:17 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:07 -!- Isx [n=g_isaias@190.34.101.140] has left #lisp 13:42:51 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:11 lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 13:44:02 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 13:44:17 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 13:45:29 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:45:34 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:45:41 reading through C@W, a lot of them talk about using assertions in code. Are there any caveats/gotchas with the ASSERT macro (as implemented by SBCL)? 13:46:29 UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:32 ryepup: there's no way out of it... i sometimes use cerror where the problem needs programmer attention, but ignoring it is a valid option 13:46:46 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:51 Athas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 13:50:36 can let* bind variable the same variable more than once? 13:51:04 Athas` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 13:51:27 stassats: yes 13:51:39 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@72.228.150.44] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:51:42 stassats: (let* ((a 1) (a 2)) a) 13:51:48 ryepup: that doesn't help me, i'm interested in CLHS section 13:51:59 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:52:22 oh, sorry then. Thought I had an easy one :) 13:52:28 redblue [i=star@ppp101.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:52:31 stassats, it can, and then you get a style-warning because you don't use the first a 13:52:40 (unless you use it before you rebind it) 13:52:55 -!- Athas` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:52:59 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-29.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:53:48 rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:53:49 i'm doing something like ((a (if do-something (process a) a)) (a (if do-something-other (do a) a))) 13:53:52 stassats: Iirc, CLHS is not very explicit about it. In practise, implementations allow it in LET* but not in LET 13:54:57 stassats: Consider using (let ((a init)) (when foo (setq a :foo)) (when bar (setq a :bar)) ...) 13:55:22 [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.125] has joined #lisp 13:55:26 lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-211-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:30 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 13:56:10 -!- Athas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:56:14 the fact it is sequential would make it sound like its ok 13:56:16 i like let better 13:56:30 let is parallel 13:56:36 i'm sure you read that though 13:56:50 i meant using let instead of setq 13:57:47 but ok, it looks too clunky with let in this case 13:58:29 Sure it's matter of taste. I do not like it if too much control-flow is placed into LET forms. 13:58:44 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:00:20 *stassats* is experimenting with slime-sprof to exclude swank's functions 14:02:30 how can i get the macro definition of macro-function?? 14:02:43 angel_: M-. in Slime on the macro's name 14:03:01 Levenson [n=Levenson@89.218.73.207] has joined #lisp 14:07:36 i want get the definition ,but not prototype 14:07:54 what's prototype? 14:08:13 angel_ do you want the actual code (declaration) 14:08:56 -!- ikki [n=ikki@200.95.162.30] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:10:41 *Guthur* wants to experiment with prototype languages again, puts it on todo list 14:10:54 (with-open-file (stream &key direction element-type if-exists if-does-not-exist external-format buffered &rest options) &bod 14:11:14 i want to get the definition of an macro. 14:11:23 M-. on the symbol name 14:11:30 i get error 14:11:43 for w-o-f, see the source code to your Lisp. 14:12:05 PARSE-NAMESTRING: argument #1=(SYSTEM::DEFUN/DEFMACRO 14:12:05 #P"/build/buildd/clisp-2.44.1/debian/build/macros2.fas" 306 313) should be a pathname designator #2=(OR 14:12:05 STRING FILE-STREAM PATHNAME) 14:12:05 [Condition of type SIMPLE-TYPE-ERROR] 14:12:23 -!- ln5 [n=ln5@nordutug-gw.nordu.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:12:24 Get a more reflective implementation 14:12:37 ok. thanks all 14:14:31 angel_: 2.44.1 is old. try a newer version 14:14:47 nah newer clisp versions are unusable with slime 14:15:39 why? 14:16:16 clisp does not provide a programmatic api for their backtraces (as far as I know of) and its swank backend parses the backtraces. 14:16:36 The way frames are printed changed somewhere on more recent versions 14:16:52 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:17:17 -!- binrapt [i=void@unaffiliated/binrapt] has left #lisp 14:17:22 tcr i'm using the latest slime and clisp at uni 14:17:30 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32D9E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:32 I pity you 14:17:33 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:17:34 some problems getting it set up though 14:17:46 ya it took a couple of days 14:18:10 Can you make any sense of backtraces? 14:18:26 hehe nope 14:18:46 i was just blaming lisp in general 14:18:54 are you telling me its not meant to be like that 14:19:21 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 14:19:21 ugh, elisp can't do &optional (x default-value) 14:19:32 also i had be explicit about loading some features for some reason, i don't have the .emacs file here though 14:19:42 thats slime features 14:19:43 stassats: Well it can if you use DEFUN*, but better don't 14:19:47 stassats: there's defun* there after (require 'cl) 14:19:51 i already did, but still 14:20:55 Guthur: Slime backtraces on SBCL, for instance, are way better than, say, java backtraces 14:20:57 -!- angel_ [n=angel@221.223.126.169] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:21:29 and still slightly better than javascript backtraces from firebug (: 14:21:54 well, ok, if you consider restarts, they're a fair bit better (: 14:22:19 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 14:22:25 Greetings. 14:22:33 roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 14:22:43 i think should migrate to SBCL some day 14:23:11 Guthur: What are you using now? 14:23:26 slime and clisp 14:24:08 well clisp if with we are being specific about implementation, but we were talking about backtraces in slime 14:24:21 Ah. Just curious 14:24:34 no probs 14:24:38 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:24:52 My general goal is to test my code on multiple implementations, as many as possible. In practice, I pretty much use only SBCL. 14:25:27 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:25:33 tmh ya it seems to be popular, thats why i'm thinking there must be something in it and it would be worth migrating 14:25:37 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:26:18 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:26:43 The thing that has always been attractive about clisp is the tight integration with C libraries. The problem with that is that if you rely on those, you're wedded to clisp. 14:27:03 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 14:27:06 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:27:28 And I've not played with it enough to know how will it abstracts those C libraries. They might be a pain to use from the lisp side anyway. 14:27:34 s/will/well/ 14:28:24 malcolm_reynolds [n=malc@mreynolds.cs.ucl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:30:28 dialtone [n=dialtone@98.210.155.172] has joined #lisp 14:33:45 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 14:36:03 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp101.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Success] 14:37:09 Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:11 minion: memo for gigamonkey Your page at http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ says Coders at Work due out next month 14:40:12 you speak nonsense 14:40:29 minion: memo for gigamonkey: Your page at http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ says Coders at Work due out next month 14:40:29 Remembered. I'll tell gigamonkey when he/she/it next speaks. 14:41:23 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-195-122.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:10 -!- ASau [n=user@host217-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 14:47:17 -!- girzel [n=user@222.169.203.77] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:47:42 Guest475 [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-122-184.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:48:57 -!- Guest475 [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-122-184.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:49:53 wow 14:49:57 *Xof* writes sb-alien code right first time 14:52:57 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-122-184.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:55:19 hi, i trying make a macro, that has various ` with macroexpand-1 only show the las `expansion, how can i relove that, thanks 14:56:17 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has left #lisp 14:58:08 use progn 14:58:33 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:58:42 talking of macros is there good resources on creating macros 14:58:42 sorry the phone thanks 14:59:19 <_3b> hmm, guess i should stop using parenscript, seems to compile to slow code, at least on firefox 3.7a :( 15:00:29 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:00:54 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 15:01:02 _3b maybe you could go in and add a few optimisations by hand 15:01:34 <_3b> yeah, i am for now 15:02:11 <_3b> but if i'm going to have to dig through the JS to see what needs optimized, i might as well start there 15:03:01 *_3b* might be able to get away with just avoiding let and dolist though, dunno 15:03:11 Firebug has a profiler, iirc. 15:03:27 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:03:29 <_3b> yep, not line level though, as far as i can tell 15:03:34 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:03:44 <_3b> and it doesn't really say what the JIT is doing either 15:04:31 You'd need a door in the internals to do that, surely 15:04:45 *_3b* is running 50 animated characters at ~20 fps now at least 15:05:19 <_3b> yeah, apparently debug builds have a lower level thing that knows about JIT, no idea how usable it is without knowledge of internals though 15:08:05 what are you making _3b 15:08:21 <_3b> just trying out webgl 15:09:27 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 15:09:30 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:11:41 minion: chant 15:11:41 MORE RECENT 15:11:54 Gah, I needed something about premature optimization. 15:12:46 tmh premature as in its not likely to be accepted standard until umm say 2020 15:13:15 <_3b> minion: advice about optimization? 15:13:16 #11908: Premature optimization is the root of all evil. 15:13:18 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:29 Hah, no, premature as in I need to get it working before I worry about optimizing. 15:13:53 -!- KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [] 15:14:07 I *know* for a fact this process is going to require some optimization so the performance is acceptable. 15:14:22 -!- jlf [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:14:43 -!- ksergio [n=vmplanet@mail.nuecho.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:16:20 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 15:17:13 cddr```` [n=user@mail.formedix.com] has joined #lisp 15:17:13 -!- cddr``` [n=user@mail.formedix.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:18:00 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:18:00 -!- dmiles [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 15:19:18 The corollary to that is "Premature generalization is the other root of all evil." I have a specific case I need to solve, but this eventually needs to be generalized for the general case. Generalizing is a was of time at the moment, I just need to get it done. 15:19:38 s/a was/a waste/ 15:21:06 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:21:13 I don't know why I logged in here, need to focus and this is distracting, plus I'm just creating noise. 15:21:17 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 15:23:06 umm i'm doing pre mature optimising at the moment 15:23:28 but its a learning thing as well. think i will stop though and try and make progress instead 15:23:41 yrk [n=yrk@62.56.255.2] has joined #lisp 15:24:38 plus i need to figure out macros to get any further, the generalisation he was talking about 15:26:38 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@tmo-101-226.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:06 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:30:15 Guthur: you probably dont need to figure out macros to get further, but they might reduce the amount of code it takes. It is often better to write the macro *after* you have identified recurring patterns in your code, that you are at a loss to abstract otherwise 15:31:59 "have identified recurring patterns in your code" that cannot be refactored using higher-order functions 15:32:19 tcr: better put thanks 15:33:01 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 15:34:20 <_3b> also useful when you don't want to type out an entire matrix multiply by hand :p 15:34:52 ya basically at that stage, except its only occurred once, its doubtful whether it was even worthwhile anyway, it was the stackless recursion, but it feels like iteration, meh 15:35:15 <_3b> yeah, same thing 15:35:29 -!- yrk [n=yrk@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has left #lisp 15:37:03 <_3b> though in the general case, tail call elimination can do some things that are harder to translate to iteration 15:37:50 the thing is i can't help but think that recursion does need memory of its previous states to be recursive 15:38:08 but maybe 15:38:40 <_3b> that is just a definition thing, woul you call a LOOP that pushed state onto a stack every time through iteration still? 15:38:58 <_3b> just a question of whether you manage stack/iteration or the compiler does 15:39:20 Guthur: Watch the first, or second sicp video lecture 15:40:19 *_3b* would call it recursion if the code i'm editing looks recursive, iterative if i use an iterative construct 15:40:31 <_3b> what the compiler does with it is the compilers business 15:41:02 <_3b> maybe if needed make a distinction between recusion where TCO is an optimization or a requirement 15:41:13 In the lecture they differentiate between the code pattern of recursion and iteration, and recursive and iterative processes 15:41:40 the latter is the run-time behaviour of the code 15:44:21 hi, i doing a macro with various ` not anidated and with macroexpand, i only get the last, how can i get all , thanks 15:44:50 use progn 15:44:53 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-103.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 15:45:03 deja vu? 15:45:05 deja vu 15:45:09 hehe 15:45:36 no, but i read progn documentatio and seems for only get the last 15:46:05 evaluation 15:46:25 then construct your list in the way you want 15:47:16 salva_: you have to expand to progn 15:47:33 salva_: `(progn (defun ,name1 ,,,) (defun ,name2 ....)) 15:48:00 with this i only get the last 15:49:05 puting all in a list first and the extract it with @? 15:49:24 salva_: alternatively you could structure your code to not use nested backquotes (by assembling each nesting externally in a let binding) then splicing the results in 15:49:32 <_3b> salva_: can you lisppaste what you are trying to do, and what you want it to do? 15:49:42 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:56 well my stackless recursion is not that inconvenient i pass the function to another function and use a catch throw to roll back, but i was hoping to maybe define something like (defstacklessfun func) to make it even more abstracted 15:49:58 ok yes, ill put a paste thanks 15:50:16 shyam_k [n=user@117.204.87.183] has joined #lisp 15:50:20 <_3b> Guthur: i suspect the speed of that approach could make it inconvenient :p 15:50:44 -!- shyam_k is now known as Guest89421 15:50:46 never tested it to be honest 15:50:50 go? 15:50:58 ya 15:51:00 <_3b> Guthur: might be better off just using scheme if you want to use recursion to iterate 15:51:16 tail recursion is just like goto 15:51:26 stassats were you asking me if i used go 15:51:37 salva pasted "macro problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88431 15:51:44 or if you want to use go 15:52:08 -!- Guest89421 is now known as shyam_k` 15:52:26 -!- shyam_k` is now known as shyam_k 15:52:51 <_3b> salva_: yeah, looks like you should expand to a progn there 15:53:29 <_3b> well, looks like expanding to a progn would fix the problem, not actually sure the entire thing is a good idea though :) 15:54:07 <_3b> (defmacro d-a-v (app) `(progn (defmacro ...) (defmacro ...) ...)) 15:54:51 i dont understand well, progn is a function that evaluates various forms and returns the result of the last? 15:55:02 <_3b> seems a bit odd to generate a specialized macro with a fixed name though 15:55:11 <_3b> right, you want to evaluate 3 defmacro forms 15:55:11 yeah, why don't you like it? 15:55:30 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:55:45 <_3b> you don't really care about what it returns 15:55:58 *_3b* supposes prog1 would work just as well 15:55:58 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:56:06 or prog2 15:56:42 <_3b> actually, i guess i'd need to look up the toplevelness stuff before i was sure about prog1 or prog2 15:57:13 well the code inside this macro will be generated, i'll do it now, with this i'll use a collect for each generated form and expnd it, i this that this could works thanks 15:57:17 *_3b* really needs to make an expanded clhs table of contents one of these days 15:58:30 <_3b> hmm, only progn is listed in 3.2.3.1, so possibly prog1 or prog2 wouldn't work quite as well 15:58:38 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 16:00:41 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:02:12 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:03:21 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-10.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:04:12 ubii [n=ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:09 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-122-184.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:05:17 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 16:06:22 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:36 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-10.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:06:43 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:09:30 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:10:04 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-59-41.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:14 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:12:31 pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has joined #lisp 16:12:45 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:14:51 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-24-10.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:15:17 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-216-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:20:05 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-206-71-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:20:05 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:20:17 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:20:22 redblue [i=star@ppp134.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:23:33 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:23:33 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:23:52 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:23:57 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:23:57 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:25:30 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:25:38 Back with a legitimate question. 16:25:48 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:26:05 you missed the continuation of the optimisation thread hehe 16:26:06 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:26:28 Is the default value of GETHASH evaluated on every call, or just when it is needed? 16:26:28 that's easy, just call/cc 16:26:31 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:26:51 Guthur: That's fortunate, because I would have been sucked into it and I got some stuff done. 16:27:25 hhh ya, well its friday its my day off 16:27:28 tmh: i believe, it's evaluated once 16:28:10 stassats: When GETHASH is called for a key that doesn't exist? 16:28:39 well, no, when lisp evaluates arguments before calling GETHASH 16:29:46 stassats: Ah, so if I have gethash in a loop with a default value, that default value will be evaluated every time. 16:29:47 and in case of (setf gethash): "When a gethash form is used as a setf place, any default which is supplied is evaluated according to normal left-to-right evaluation rules, but its value is ignored." 16:29:55 tmh: sure 16:29:59 stassats: yeah, saw that. 16:30:14 gethash is just a function, nothing fancy 16:30:22 Hmmm 16:31:02 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-57-73.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:31:15 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:31:16 Geralt1 [n=Geralt@p5B32C4B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:36 -!- Geralt1 is now known as Geralt 16:32:24 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:32:28 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:33:43 So, a MAKE-ARRAY form as the default value of GETHASH in LOOP is probably pretty inefficient. :-) 16:35:04 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:35:46 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 16:36:10 -!- [Jackal] [n=Jackal@118.94.86.120] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:37:26 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:37:31 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-120.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:47 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 16:42:49 Hey! present-p in the gethash does not follow the convention. It *should* be presentp. Lisp sucks. 16:42:50 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:43:19 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:43:23 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:26 In the CLHS documentation. 16:43:30 Heh. Oh for the strict regularity of C# or perl! 16:45:26 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:45:26 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:45:31 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:38 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:30 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 16:47:55 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:48:48 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-sdejgqzubchvirrq] has joined #lisp 16:49:33 tmh not sure -p seems to come up alot 16:49:59 for generalised booleans 16:51:32 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:52:09 Guthur: Oh, there is not consensus on the convention, obviously, this is lisp. I use the convention that there is no dash unless it is multi-word. i.e., minusp and minus-value-p 16:52:40 Unless I forget to. :-) 16:54:06 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:54:32 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:56:33 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:57:01 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:57:12 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.161.40.222] has joined #lisp 16:58:54 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 16:59:54 h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 17:01:00 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has quit [Client Quit] 17:01:31 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:02:41 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:03:03 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:04:50 smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:41 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:05:49 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:47 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:07:52 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-102-196.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 17:08:01 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@85.2.38.206] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1"] 17:08:29 htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 17:08:48 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:12:10 -!- levy [n=levy@apn-89-223-166-136.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 17:12:10 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:12:53 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:13:22 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-sdejgqzubchvirrq] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:14:25 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:14:43 ruediger [n=ruediger@93-82-7-187.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:16:35 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-197-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:35 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:18:53 -!- cddr```` [n=user@mail.formedix.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:18:58 -!- mdh [n=user@cpe-76-88-124-101.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:19:04 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:20:12 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-31-155.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:21:13 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-195-122.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:21:27 -!- malcolm_reynolds [n=malc@mreynolds.cs.ucl.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:21:44 <_3b> hmm, or maybe that wasn't what was slowing down my js code... yay for hard to predict 'smart' compilers 17:22:30 What is the SBCL command to invoke GC and where can I find that in the SBCL docs? 17:22:50 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:51 sb-ext:gc 17:22:59 http://l1sp.org/sbcl/sb-ext:gc perhaps 17:23:07 darn, nope 17:24:00 milanj [n=milan@79.101.138.68] has joined #lisp 17:25:54 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:25:55 _3b maybe you are just running into the limits of the platform 17:26:11 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:26:29 <_3b> Guthur: nah, rearranging the code makes it faster, presumably i just hit on something it optimizes better 17:27:31 <_3b> though with the current level of 'faster' i think i'm close to platform limits 17:28:14 <_3b> hopefully limits they will be able to raise easily at least 17:29:38 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:30:18 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:30:19 -!- Guest193` [n=user@72.14.228.129] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:30:23 serichse1 [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06e03f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:08 Woot, time to profile 17:33:49 Ugh, I do this every time -> (require :sb-prof) -> "Don't know how to require SB-PROF" (forget the S) 17:33:57 -!- smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:34:38 <_3b> doesn't slime do that for you now? (you are using the new slime sprof stuff, right? :) 17:34:42 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:34:54 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:35:15 I am not, I'm low tech 17:35:19 Using slime, though 17:35:30 I don't require slime-fancy 17:36:27 big mistake 17:36:45 but not as big as not having it required by default... 17:36:47 *_3b* likes slime-sprof, don't think it is in -fancy anyway though 17:37:02 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:05 Perhaps. I haven't had time to look into what is new in slime. 17:37:06 -!- acieroid` is now known as acieroid 17:37:13 milanj- [n=milan@79.101.212.235] has joined #lisp 17:37:36 yeah, why doesn't slime come setup to be fancy by default? 17:40:06 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:40:07 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:40:31 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:42:48 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06e03f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:44:35 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.138.68] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:44:54 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:45:01 foom doesn't want to show off maybe 17:45:14 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:46:13 though more sensibly maybe it does want to scare users, reminds of that learning article someone poster here a few days ago 17:46:41 does/doesn't 17:48:14 Zlatan [n=n@169.230.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:48:51 -!- Zlatan [n=n@169.230.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:48:51 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:48:54 scare users? with an actually useful inspector? or with fuzzy completion, which should really be the default for newcomers to meet first...? 17:49:22 but whatever... i'm already unwelcome on slime-devel expressing my views... 17:49:22 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:49:55 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-48-200.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:00 did you read that article about perfection and performancist 17:50:14 i'll see if i can find it 17:50:24 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 17:51:17 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:51:32 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:52:22 no, but i do remember my path to lisp started about 3-4 years ago... the moment when i first tried fuzzy completion, when i made it 100x faster in several steps, when i first stopped using symlinks to configure asdf systems, ... all the numerous braindead defaults that either made my life much harder than necessary or have hidden useful features from my eyes 17:52:27 http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/Essays/psychology.html 17:52:30 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:25 i've read it, don't remember how that applies to this though 17:53:46 well people don't want to learn new features 17:54:01 they like their happy little world of non complexity 17:54:19 even if it is less efficient in the long run 17:54:20 *all* of them, you mean? 17:54:31 Hmm, I think I'm screwing up the profile. Slime executes a form in a separate thread, right? So the profiler isn't getting any data. 17:54:44 attila_lendvai: fuzzy completion would be the best default for completion 17:54:48 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp134.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:54:51 this coming from a semi-newbie 17:55:11 guaqua: go, try to convince slime-devel... but be prepared for a "get lost!" 17:55:35 <_3b> tmh: depends on how you run the profiler 17:56:06 Ok, so I should just set :threads to :all? 17:56:20 i don't care about people who don't want to learn (features, or whatever). but i do care about people who do want to learn and the sensible defaults that help their path in making their own decisions... 17:56:24 <_3b> tmh: you could just wrap the form you run from slime in a with-profiling or whatever it is 17:56:30 -!- binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has left #lisp 17:56:37 _3b: I'm doing that 17:56:43 Using with-profiling 17:57:15 <_3b> around the form you want profiled? that should work, unless you start a new thread within that (and even then i'd have expected it to work) 17:57:18 well, if you want features, you can turn them on. i'm too for slime-fancy being default, but i'm not even trying to convince the rest of slime-devel 17:58:12 _3b: I'm not explicitly doing anything with threads. Maybe my reduced set of data was executing too quickly. 17:58:16 attila_lendvai is it hard to turn on 17:58:24 <_3b> tmh: yeah, running too fast can be a problem 17:58:34 Guthur: it is when you dont know you should be turning it on 17:58:50 guaqua: btw, there's another 3-4x fuzzy speedup in our slime branch. i did that after i got my "get lost!"... :) the previous speedups are comitted to head luckily (not rolled back by Helmut, maybe because he's not using fuzzy and ignores the code :) 17:59:20 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-105-179.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 17:59:26 our slime fork for the interested: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.slime;a=summary 17:59:48 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-105-179.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:00:00 Alright! One more thing to get religious and fight over. 18:00:01 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:00:02 you don't miss what you don't know exists 18:00:17 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:00:27 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:00:37 maybe they just don't think it should be part of the Core 18:00:39 tmh: that fork happened years ago... 18:00:50 well, to be honest, most features require reading documentation, or even the source, to fully use them 18:01:05 Guthur: that's just rhetoric, the result is the same 18:01:11 i don't really know tbh, i haven't got a strong opinion about it either way 18:01:13 <_3b> tmh: also, you are doing something to mae it actually print results, right? :report :graph in with-profiling, or (report) afterwards? 18:01:29 attila_lendvai: My problem is that I don't use some of the more sophisticated features of slime frequently enough to be able use them without the documentation, so I just stick with what I know unless there is a very good reason. 18:01:34 slime.mov is great for that, but it's outdated 18:02:01 attila_lendvai my initial comments were more general anyway not in relation to fuzzy-complete 18:02:02 _3b: (:report :graph) , It's just running too fast. I'm going to increase my subset of data for profiling. 18:02:03 tmh: i've never read slime's doc... (i did see Marco's mov though) 18:02:31 attila_lendvai: Wow, that clairvoyant.. 18:03:26 no point... reading lisp code proved to be always more effective for me than digging outdated docs... 18:03:41 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:04:05 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-105-179.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:04:28 the gui part of fuzzy completion is mostly the result of this. we enabled it, saw the potential, and instead of reading the docs looked at the code, improved it, sent patches 18:08:10 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:06 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229144160.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 18:10:05 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:10:33 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:11:14 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:46 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:16:10 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:19:38 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:26 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:20:36 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-sumvtrqdrglgxyoj] has joined #lisp 18:23:31 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:23:31 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:23:49 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:24:37 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32C4B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:22 *Xach* wonders where on earth his simple-array-signed-byte-61 objects are coming from 18:25:54 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 18:26:27 fixnum arrays? 18:26:35 on x86-64 18:27:16 18 of them are taking up 44 megabytes, but i'm not sure what might have created them. 18:28:06 how did you measure that? 18:28:53 (room) 18:29:38 <_3b> probably just 1 big one, looks like i have 40 or so of them on a fresh sbcl 18:29:56 <_3b> all apparently small 18:30:05 hmm 18:30:05 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:30:21 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:30:26 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:30:35 i don't see any in room's output... 18:30:51 <_3b> make a big one so it gets an entry in the specific types 18:31:28 i see now 18:32:14 <_3b> hmm, the unsigned-byte- 63 array i can't make go away again is a bit odd 18:32:14 aha, i think i know what it might be 18:32:19 *Xach* tests 18:33:44 Hmmm, as I suspected, most of the time is spent in READ-FROM-STRING. I have a line of data, I know the number of columns, would it be faster to use READ instead of READ-LINE and READ-FROM-STRING? 18:33:55 <_3b> (gl :full t) should get rid of all the garbage, right? 18:34:01 <_3b> (gc :full t) that is 18:34:09 _3b: It seems to for me 18:34:21 unless you have a conservative GC 18:34:34 <_3b> ah, i suppose that could be it 18:34:35 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:34:37 i think it might be cl-ppcre:*use-bmh-matchers* 18:34:42 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:34:49 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@89.218.73.207] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:35:06 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:35:28 you can't squeeze a tag on 63-bit, maybe that's the cause 18:36:00 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 18:36:42 <_3b> i guess big arrays are just bad for conservative GC, happens to fixnum arrays too 18:36:47 tmh: you ask in the wrong emacs buffer (assuming you're using an emacs irc client) 18:37:05 _3b: how big? i got rid of a fixnum one 18:37:33 adeht: I'm not in an emacs irc client, so how did I ask in the wrong buffer? 18:37:41 tmh: you should ask your repl 18:37:53 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:56 -!- milanj- [n=milan@79.101.212.235] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:38:17 <_3b> stassats: 5000000 elements in both cases 18:38:17 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:38:20 adeht: I'm working on that, in the meantime, I was looking for tribal wisdom, and not the kind you provided. 18:38:43 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:39:17 I don't see any wisdom there 18:39:28 Exactly 18:39:45 I mean in the answer you hope to get 18:39:49 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 18:40:11 <_3b> tmh: read-sequence maybe? 18:42:25 _3b: same here, it actualy can get rid of both, what platform? 18:42:36 <_3b> x86-64 18:42:36 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:42:51 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:42:53 <_3b> sbcl "1.0.31.19" 18:43:06 <_3b> oh yeah, and linux 18:43:31 <_3b> they aren't stuck permanently, if i make a bunch of the other type, one might go away 18:43:51 how do you break references to them? 18:44:03 i just defvar'ed and then set to nil 18:44:22 <_3b> my test case is (type-of (make-array 5000000 :element-type 'fixnum)), which i assume should leave no refs 18:44:22 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:45:52 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:46:01 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:27 that leaves it for me too 18:46:58 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:46:59 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-48-200.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 18:48:41 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:49:08 I like being able to have 2 versions of a function in the file at the same time and interactively compile each as I need to profile. 18:51:01 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 18:51:10 Hmmm, 25% improvement in performance, but that comes with reduced robustness, which is probably obvious. Does the benefit justify the cost? 18:51:52 _3b: that seems to be because of sb-kernel::ctype-of, which seems to be cached 18:53:50 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:54:00 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:54:36 rpg [n=rpg@c-75-73-48-133.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:22 <_3b> stassats: ah, so probably only 1 actually stuck, other is cache? 18:55:50 <_3b> or is it a large cache 18:56:08 <_3b> actually, i gues in that case they would all be stuck 18:56:30 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:00 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:57:12 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:58:03 ok, i there is sb-kernel::clear-type-caches 18:58:12 but it doesn't include ctype-of-cache-clear 18:58:22 after including it, and calling it, it does get rid of it 18:59:20 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:59:29 I nominate MAKE-STRING-INPUT-STREAM as the most useful function of the day. 18:59:41 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:53 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:01:52 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:02:06 ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.229] has joined #lisp 19:02:11 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:03:09 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 19:07:49 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:08:09 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Absquatulandus sum"] 19:08:18 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:08:53 -!- stassats 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[n=zep@unaffiliated/zepard] has joined #lisp 19:31:58 Shamwow [n=eric@d23-164.uoregon.edu] has joined #lisp 19:35:20 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:35:20 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:35:50 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:36:54 -!- zepard [n=zep@unaffiliated/zepard] has left #lisp 19:38:05 nyef [n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:05 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:40:27 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:42:22 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-238.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:20 -!- piso [n=peter@ip98-176-76-28.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:43:25 piso [n=peter@ip98-176-76-28.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:52 In the SBCL statistical profiler, are LAMBDA and LABELS functions reported as "Unknown component: ..." ? 19:46:52 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:47:04 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:47:20 tmh: no. those are mostly alien calls i think 19:48:27 lispm [n=joswig@e177157084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:50 I think I'm done profiling for this stage. I improved the performance by 20% and am comfortable that the code is still robust. I used both profilers and that was definitely beneficial. 19:52:45 -!- rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824085414]"] 19:54:39 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:57:48 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:58:10 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:01:37 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-197-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [] 20:02:48 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:03:12 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:06:01 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:06:04 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-59-41.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:09:31 brown [n=user@72.14.228.129] has joined #lisp 20:10:13 -!- brown is now known as Guest97513 20:10:15 ska` [n=user@ppp-61-90-15-217.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 20:15:55 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.77.71.120] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:16:13 marioxcc [n=user@200.77.71.120] has joined #lisp 20:17:28 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:17:29 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:17:30 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 20:17:49 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:20:53 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:21:21 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:23:18 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 20:23:52 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:24:07 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:27:31 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:27:44 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:28:09 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:29:44 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:33:13 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:34:33 SB-SPROF does not appear on the features list, but I have some code that I would like to load only with #+SB-PROF. Why doesn't it appear on the features list? 20:34:43 SB-SPROF 20:35:03 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 20:36:54 because you can just as easily test for (find-package "SB-SPROF") 20:39:03 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:41:44 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.125] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:42:14 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:42:40 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:43:31 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:43:43 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:45:56 tmh pasted "feature expression" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88444 20:47:20 Is that the equivalent? 20:47:33 -!- loxs [n=loxs@85-130-31-93.2073154325.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:47:33 -!- cow-orke1 is now known as cow-orker 20:49:17 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 20:50:48 smanek [n=smanek@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:19 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-080-137.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:51:59 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:46 on a tangential, sb-sprof has no .asd file 20:56:12 attila_lendvai: Are those equivalent? 20:56:12 -!- mfo [i=mfo@orm.abc.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:56:52 I guess they're not, 20:57:03 Because the feature expression won't load 20:58:07 tmh annotated #88444 "More equivalent" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88444#1 20:59:35 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590f8c80.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:16 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 21:03:01 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 21:03:22 -!- rpg [n=rpg@c-75-73-48-133.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:04:35 -!- lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-211-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:06:37 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:07:50 tmh: #+#.(cl:if (cl:find-package :foo) :sbcl '(cl:or)) 21:07:50 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:08:17 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-056-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:20 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:09:17 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:09:32 Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:09:55 s/:sbcl/'(:and)/ for general case 21:10:56 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:12:17 seangrove [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:33 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-168.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:12:51 Odin-MAC [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 21:13:27 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:13:41 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:20 hi 21:14:50 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:18:29 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:20:31 michaelw: Thanks 21:21:08 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-48-200.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:45 I'm about 98% sure I would not have thought of that on my own. 21:21:57 -!- h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:22:07 h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:02 seangrov` [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:53 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:24 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:26:24 -!- Odin-MAC is now known as Odin- 21:28:15 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 21:28:35 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:29:02 -!- seangrove [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:29:07 minion memo for tcr, ABCL has working Gray streams now; can we remove the SLIME-INPUT-STREAM and SLIME-OUTPUT-STREAM classes? 21:29:16 minion: memo for tcr, ABCL has working Gray streams now; can we remove the SLIME-INPUT-STREAM and SLIME-OUTPUT-STREAM classes? 21:29:21 hmm. 21:29:25 minion help 21:29:29 minion, help 21:29:38 no minion 21:29:40 ok. 21:29:43 sorry 'bout that 21:30:16 ehu`: /msg for better results 21:30:20 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:30:27 ah. 21:30:37 ehu`: i'll try to test it 21:31:05 ASau [n=user@91.76.56.159] has joined #lisp 21:31:10 attila_lendvai: well, not today: no tcr and no minion on the network. 21:31:20 no problem though. 21:32:37 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:58 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-14-238.iburst.co.za] has quit ["leaving"] 21:33:06 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-080-137.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:33:25 i have created a list with let in a function then put some data in it, why does the data seem to be still there on subsequent calls? 21:33:43 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:33:55 Guthur: Use lisppaste to show us exactly what you did. I suspect destructive modification, but can't be sure. 21:34:16 Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has joined #lisp 21:34:18 destructive modification of literal data? 21:34:25 -!- Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has left #lisp 21:34:55 of the list maybe, its a really nasty function, i feel embarrassed to paste it, hehe 21:35:25 how does your list look? like '(1 2 3) or (list 1 2 3) ? 21:35:27 Guthur: you may not modify anything like '(foo bar), or "foo bar", etc... 21:35:52 good night 21:35:57 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has joined #lisp 21:36:02 -!- serichse1 [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06e03f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["falling down"] 21:36:28 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:21 ya (list '(nil (nil))) 21:37:28 i assume thats a bad idea? 21:37:42 i then modify that 21:38:18 yes, that's a literal list, you can't modify it 21:38:40 oops 21:39:31 either use copy-list or LIST 21:39:40 sorted 21:39:57 KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84.217.6.235] has joined #lisp 21:39:59 cheers stassats and attila_lendvai 21:40:06 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84.217.6.235] has quit [Client Quit] 21:40:10 ehu`: i got PROGRAM-ERROR while processing --eval option "(compile-system :zip nil :quit t)": [java] Wrong number of arguments for COMPILE-DEFUN. 21:40:16 while compiling abcl 21:40:18 learn something new every few hours 21:40:31 hmm. 21:40:39 stassats: from current trunk? 21:40:52 greyhame [n=jao@195.Red-83-33-226.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:17 yes 21:41:31 but i didn't do clean, retrying 21:41:51 please do. I run clean builds and don't see that. 21:45:00 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:45:22 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:45:28 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:45:34 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@66.92.19.253] has joined #lisp 21:46:05 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:46:08 ehu`: ok now 21:46:18 whew. thanks! 21:47:05 does anybody have good (yet simple) tests for gray streams? I think I have abcl's working, but it would be nice to have real-world testcases. 21:47:15 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:48:30 francogrex [n=user@91.180.247.82] has joined #lisp 21:48:47 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:48:48 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.56.159] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:49:17 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@93-82-7-187.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:49:18 ASau [n=user@91.76.56.159] has joined #lisp 21:49:52 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:31 -!- lukjad007 is now known as lukjad0Q7 21:51:42 -!- lukjad0Q7 is now known as lukjad007 21:51:43 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.56.159] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:51:59 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:52:40 Hi Xach, I modified the code you've written for me yesterday slightly so that it works on my system now: http://paste.lisp.org/display/88447 21:54:04 xan [n=xan@72-255-14-192.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:08 -!- seangrov` [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:32 seangrove [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:52 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:58:21 ehu`: trying gray streams, i got `The value # is not of type STREAM.' upon READ 21:58:21 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:58:33 Can I use the following list as a key in a hash table or do I have to convert it to a string or something? 21:58:33 ((* * * * * * * * *) (* "x" "x" "x" "x" "x" ISOLATION-PLAYER3::X "x" *) 21:58:33 (* "x" "x" "o" "x" "x" "x" "x" *) (* "x" "o" "o" "o" "o" "x" - *) 21:58:33 (* "o" "o" - "o" "o" - "x" *) (* - - "o" "o" - - ISOLATION-PLAYER3::O *) 21:58:33 (* - - - "o" "o" "o" "o" *) (* - - - - - "x" - *) (* * * * * * * * *)) 21:58:37 ASau [n=user@91.76.56.159] has joined #lisp 21:58:54 doh, use should've used lisppaste 21:58:56 retard: please paste using lisppaste 21:59:08 sorry 21:59:15 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:59:22 <_3b> looks usable, as long as you know how the hash functions work 21:59:30 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177157084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 21:59:32 stassats: did you modify anything? 21:59:51 or did you just load gray streams? 22:00:01 BrianRice [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:07 _3b: I don't really know how it works... 22:00:24 francogrex: that is dog shit. 22:00:34 ehu`: only loaded gray streams and removed make-slime-*-stream 22:00:37 <_3b> Retardedpope: like for example if you want to match another list containing the same symbols and strings, you would need to use :test 'equalp 22:00:46 <_3b> Retardedpope: when you make the hash table 22:00:54 stassats: ok. I'm affraid that won't be enough. 22:01:01 I'll ask Mark Evenson to look into it. 22:01:41 output seems to work 22:02:02 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:02:11 _3b: ok, and if I use the wrong equal function it will compare the pointers to the list? 22:02:28 -!- ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.229] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:02:33 <_3b> Retardedpope: something like that, probably 22:02:53 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:02:55 Xach: it's the only way it works! 22:02:59 francogrex: incorrect. 22:03:41 *standard-output* is #, while input *standard-input* # Retardedpope: 'equal might also work, i'd have to check to see what that does with lists 22:04:03 well, I told you yesterday, not adding #\retrun gives out scrambled output 22:04:35 and adding #\return just alone will result in an extra "" that has to be removed 22:04:59 francogrex: i already told you yesterday how to fix it. 22:05:15 francogrex: CASE keys are not evaluated, so you have added the symbol LIST to the clause 22:05:30 francogrex: instead, you should remove your extra junk and add a new clause that takes no action if it sees #\Return 22:05:44 stassats: ok. then that's really something for Mark or tcr to look into. They maintain Slime. 22:05:48 for abcl. 22:06:17 _3b: Ok, thank you, but from a performance point of view don't you think it would be better to convert the list to a string? 22:06:32 22:06:34 Xach: hmm 22:06:42 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:06:59 <_3b> Retardedpope: i don't think that, since i have no evidence that either solution would be faster, or that speed even matters 22:07:05 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:07:05 Disregard the blank line, my kids are helping my type. 22:07:15 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:07:35 -!- Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 22:07:44 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Client Quit] 22:07:55 _3b: Maybe you're right. It might be just as fast to travers a list... 22:08:02 <_3b> Retardedpope: considering you would have to build a string, then hash that, that might not be faster than just hashing the list directly 22:08:15 <_3b> Retardedpope: don't forget you have to traverse the list to build the string 22:08:43 <_3b> Retardedpope: important part is, measure speed first to see if it even matters 22:09:17 xach: ok, but in any case, i had problems using sbcl to read files on win32 (problem with line ending) however with this function now it can do it well. 22:09:19 <_3b> you might be wasting all your time doing list ops, and would gain more by switching to an array or something 22:09:28 <_3b> or it might just be fast enough as it is 22:10:15 <_3b> francogrex: youmight want to use the 3rd arg to vector-push-extend if you care about speed 22:10:33 <_3b> francogrex: (assuming you have a lot of data) 22:10:52 _3b: I already know that speed matters, the question is if I gain anything from converting it to a string... 22:11:16 *_3b* doesn't remember which of the csv people is which 22:11:17 -!- ASau [n=user@91.76.56.159] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:11:20 francogrex: yes, but it does it in a terrible way. 22:11:25 I would have to do the conversion everytime 22:11:31 francogrex: wasteful and error-prone 22:11:34 <_3b> Retardedpope: you profiled, and determined that hashing was the slow bit? 22:11:49 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:11:55 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@140a.hackerdojo.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:00 _3b: No I didn't... 22:12:13 <_3b> Retardedpope: well, that would be the first step :) 22:12:33 <_3b> Retardedpope: (assuming you already did the other first step, specifically, making it actually work) 22:12:50 _3b: yes sometimes I have a lot of data 22:13:25 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-197-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:49 _3b: Yeah, I guess. It's just that the hash table might get really big over time and I just want to make sure that searching it will be fast enough. 22:14:12 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-57-73.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 22:14:18 <_3b> well, searching a hash table shouldn't depend too much on the size of the hash table 22:14:24 xach: ok removed junk and added this: ((#\Return) nil) to the case 22:14:25 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:14:52 _3b: but I can come back when I know if it's a real issue. Thanks for your help. 22:14:53 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:15:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/88447#1 22:15:24 it works 22:16:08 <_3b> Retardedpope: also, mixing symbols and strings in your list seemed a bit odd, particularly sometimes using "x"/"o" and sometimes x or o 22:16:41 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-134-7-174.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:17:21 francogrex: why not use (zerop (length sst)) ;; instead of (not (equal sst)), and remove the symbol 'list from the case clause 22:17:25 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:18:03 Vonunov [n=jack@99-58-1-192.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:20 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-152.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:18:26 knobo: I removed all that crap as Xach suggested. 22:18:39 ehu`: i have i guess, that i checked out abcl without your changes, retrying again 22:19:20 _3b: It's not really my list. It's more like I'm using someone elses list. 22:20:28 _3b: I'm writing an AI for a game I didn't write and that list is representing the game state. 22:20:39 or game board 22:20:49 although with the function I can read files now, I still expect sbcl guys to fix the read-line bug in windows (sorry that I'm too of an amateur to help) 22:21:17 that's a strange representation 22:21:17 _3b: or well, simply the board 22:21:21 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:21:34 <_3b> Retardedpope: right, but it suggests you might be updating the board differently than the original code did or something 22:22:07 <_3b> which may not actually matter, but still seems odd 22:23:24 _3b: I certainly agree with you. I was actually surprised when I first saw the content of that list. 22:24:09 _3b: seemed like a strange thing to do 22:27:01 ehu`: well, example from http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Character-counting-input-stream.html fails with the same error (and i'm using 12183 revision) 22:27:09 francogrex: but you should read the whole (or atleas a line at the time) file at once, then use position and subseq to split the lines. 22:28:24 knobo: yes but you know, i'm happy with it now because readline is fucked in sbcl (windows version) 22:28:34 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:28:51 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-152.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:29:25 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.180.247.82] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:29:47 francogrex: what's fcked about it? 22:31:02 francogrex: what happens when you do a readline? 22:31:36 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1C8B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:53 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has joined #lisp 22:32:29 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483ED79.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:34:50 francogrex: I don't have windows so you have to tell me what is happening. Or else I can't help you. 22:34:51 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:35:01 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:35:13 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:37:38 chris2_ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-060-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:49 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:39:06 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:41:00 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 22:41:04 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0778.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:43:27 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has left #lisp 22:43:30 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:48:05 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1C8B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:48:31 sbcl uses Unix line-ending conventions even on Windows, which uses two characters to end a line in text files. 22:49:32 so read-line returns one of those characters in the string 22:49:39 getting rid of it is extra work 22:49:52 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 22:50:03 chris2__ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-060-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:22 (flexi-streams:make-flexi-stream stream :element-type 'character :external-format (flex:make-external-format :latin-1)) 22:51:27 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-056-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:53:07 -!- chris2_ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-060-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:57:27 -!- seangrove [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:11 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:59:11 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:59:48 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:59:55 benny [n=benny@i577A0999.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:01:44 chris2_ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-060-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:13 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 23:02:13 Does anyone ever use either #\newline or #\return seperatly on windows. Or do they always come together. Does it have any function other than being annoying? 23:03:04 mle [n=emily@kuu.accela.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:39 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:13:14 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:14:57 -!- chris2__ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-060-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:17:43 seangrove [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:25 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:50 annoying is a feature of windows, it keeps people upgrading 23:24:51 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:25:09 hehe only joking, i hear win 7 is actually quite good 23:25:25 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:25:53 in the next version newline character will take up 2 DVDs worth of space 23:26:59 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-48-200.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:27:04 <_3b> that's ok, you'll be able to store them in the cloud, so it won't be a problem 23:27:41 "get off of my cloud" 23:28:24 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:29:06 <_3b> what is the state of the art in CL blog software these days? 23:29:13 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 23:29:21 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-197-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [] 23:29:23 your own... 23:29:31 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 23:29:33 <_3b> nah, mine doesn't even work yet :p 23:29:36 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:30:09 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:30:13 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 23:30:20 <_3b> though the part where i can mix slime and markdown syntax in emacs is fun :p 23:31:36 just make a public REPL, where you can push posts onto a list, and everyone can push comments on posts 23:31:48 <_3b> heh 23:32:34 *_3b* should just leave it a static site, and not worry about comments or rss... might actually have a shot of finishing it that way 23:33:42 jlf [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 23:34:21 _3b: you can have rss and comments even with a static site 23:34:21 or you can just put a gitweb and write posts as comments to commits 23:34:34 <_3b> p_l: not if i don't implement them :p 23:34:52 _3b: you can, give people a form to send mails ;-) 23:35:10 _3b: static -- that's what I did for mine. between reddit, hn, etc, there's enough commentary for anything that might warrant it 23:35:17 or use one of those new javascript-based comment systems 23:35:29 jtshell [n=jtshell@d216-232-216-248.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:41 <_3b> p_l: my point was that i need to limit the feature set, or it will take more time than i'm willing to spend to finish 23:36:47 _3b: those js-based ones work afaik by pasting a snippet into a div 23:37:02 then it loads the rest from the comment system server 23:37:28 <_3b> if i wanted other people's servers involved, i'd just use a hosted blog :) 23:37:44 ^_- 23:39:46 -!- male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:43:03 _3b look at this way with all that work you will actually have something to talk about on the blog hehe 23:43:20 *_3b* already has enough stuff i'm supposed to be working on to talk about 23:43:37 but if you are talking you aren't working 23:43:51 <_3b> right, that's the problem 23:44:12 <_3b> and working to enable talking instead of the actual work i'm supposed to be doing is even worse :p 23:45:05 indeed, but sure everyone's doing it so it must be worthwhile... 23:45:08 *_3b* has an army of webdwarves to blog about currently, but no blog :p 23:45:42 webdwarves? cool hurry up then that sounds like something worth reading about 23:46:00 <_3b> http://3bb.cc/tmp/webgl.png <- the boring version 23:46:11 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:46:26 <_3b> (not that anyone here has a new enough browser to see the interesting version even if i did blog about it :p ) 23:46:45 i do .. i think :) 23:46:46 can't they work for you yet? 23:46:56 firefox 3.7.x .. right? 23:47:10 <_3b> lnostdal: yeah, or recent webkit nightly 23:47:44 yeah, got that too also .. i think 23:47:44 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:48:04 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:48:04 _3b: what are you writing it in (except for JavaScript?) 23:48:19 <_3b> you can remove the .png and see if it is new enough, though that is an old boring/slow version 23:49:12 <_3b> p_l: all parenscript so far, with some cl-who/hunchentoot to serve the data to it locally (for not any particularly good reason) 23:49:25 works here 23:49:35 3d dwarf attack 23:49:44 i wonder how IE will implement it when/if it ever gets made standard 23:49:47 <_3b> also i guess classimp and yason to translate the model to an easier to parse format 23:50:33 <_3b> lnostdal: cool, let me know if you try it on webkit, i've so far been too lazy to install that here 23:51:29 <_3b> lnostdal: hmm, did you spam reload on that or something? hit the server for textures a bunch of times 23:51:42 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:51:52 i refreshed once, not a bunch 23:52:02 *_3b* has been noticing oddness with texture loading, but not on a logged server, so didn't realize it was spamming the server too 23:52:15 cads [n=max@c-24-30-55-172.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:30 *_3b* may have to investigate that, and/or file some bugs with ffox 23:54:52 hohum .. while the webgl patches are a part of webkit now, they are not enabled by default in the nightly builds yet 23:54:52 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:55:07 sowell .. ff-3.7.x only still i guess :) 23:55:11 ASau [n=user@ppp91-76-56-159.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:55:12 <_3b> ah, wonder what you need to do to get that 23:55:31 <_3b> pretty sure i've seen people talking about using it on webkit, dunno if they compiled with special options or what though 23:55:45 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:56:13 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 23:56:20 wow, haven't seen cartan in a while. 23:56:23 *lnostdal* wonders how o3d vs. webgl "fits" together 23:56:46 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host86-147-40-39.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 23:57:46 <_3b> hmm, actually, i'm not sure i'm even loading the textures in my code in that version... might just be taking a link onto the body html 23:59:01 <_3b> guess that is part of the fun of nightly builds :/