00:00:15 is asdf-install supposed to be present/preloaded in sbcl 1.0.30 in a fedora 11 distro? 00:01:41 h3r3tic [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:19 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:03:28 -!- benny` is now known as benny 00:04:04 seangrove [n=user@173-11-104-25-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:17 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.248.112] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:05:10 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@188-23-88-42.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:07:16 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.127] has joined #lisp 00:08:04 "The Free Express Edition will function for 30 days. After 30 days, you will be prompted to renew. " this renew is just running the new-licence file again and renewing allegro license without payment, right? or they changed the allegro cl express to an only 30 days trial? 00:08:22 you can renew forever 00:08:32 no payment needed 00:08:59 FSVO "forever" 00:09:27 is asdf-install supposed to be present/preloaded in sbcl 1.0.30 in a fedora 11 distro? ASDF is there, but not asdf-install 00:10:10 Undead_Lisper: don't know anything about fedora, but asdf-install should be in the sbcl/contrib directory 00:10:23 it's part of the sbcl source distribution 00:10:46 <_3b> Undead_Lisper: did you try (require 'asdf-install) ? 00:10:53 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-86.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:10:54 will give it a try 00:10:59 piso: you might have a hard time renewing once Franz releases a new version. That's just a guess though. 00:11:50 gigamonkey: I've had several versions of the allegro free trial since about 2005 or so, without any interruption 00:12:07 (require 'asdf-install) did the trick, forgive me father, but it's been 8 years since my last lisp 00:12:09 thanks 00:12:17 i see, i like the attidute of franz and lispworks about their free products, the restrictions are not really a problem if you are a hobbyist coder, it would also be great if using it in university research were not restricted :) 00:15:07 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.127] has quit ["Leaving..."] 00:15:08 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:15:47 hmm... I seem to have had allegro free trial since 2002. Time flies... 00:16:25 :) 00:19:19 *rtoym* wishes the free Allegro version had a bigger heap so that he could compile maxima with it. 00:20:15 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:21:45 i know this will be a silly question but how big should be a project nearly to pass to the 60 mb heap size 00:22:54 -!- faux` [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 00:23:12 <_3b> you could probably pass that with 1 model with textures from a modern game :p 00:23:51 :D 00:23:54 <_3b> (well, it would probably take a few actually) 00:26:12 <_3b> i guess 4 2kx2k textures would do it 00:27:56 gigamonkey: your markup is showing, somehow. 00:30:22 _3b: i'm willing to use it in an design project -just a homework project in fact- but i don't plan to visualize using textures or rendering, the result will be just some primitive graphical visualizations more like plans or wireframe perspective views at all. i'm willing to product something using simpler genetic algorithms maybe, would that kind of thing pass the limit? 00:30:51 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:32:23 <_3b> no clue, you could probably do a lot in 60MB if you watch your space usage, i don't generally worry about space though, so can't really estimate 00:32:38 *_3b* mostly uses sbcl anyway 00:35:21 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-223-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 105 (No buffer space available)] 00:35:21 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 00:37:01 anyway, i'll give it a chance, even if the restrictions causes problems, i don't thing it will be very hard to port the code to sbcl 00:37:43 -!- seangrove [n=user@173-11-104-25-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:49 think* 00:38:52 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:40:51 -!- Undead_Lisper [n=lispzomb@pool-173-76-29-230.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:42:10 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:42:18 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:44:51 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 00:48:07 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-82-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:49:10 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.34] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:51:40 minion: memo for gigamonkey: Links missing on jeffries blog links 00:51:40 Remembered. I'll tell gigamonkey when he/she/it next speaks. 00:57:33 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2FAA9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:00:20 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:01:28 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.194.6] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 01:08:40 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-xxdjnjorbssvxkid] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:12:06 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:12:11 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 01:18:45 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 01:20:36 chavo_ [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:37 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h52n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 01:22:18 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:23:04 -!- eno__ [n=eno@70.137.155.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:24:49 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441541.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:26:45 Makoryu [n=vt920@c-24-147-69-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:54 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:41:33 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has joined #lisp 01:43:04 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:43:49 minion: paip? 01:43:50 paip: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/paip 01:44:23 :) the first 100 pages of paip is like a r5rs for cl :) 01:44:54 but more clear :) 01:45:27 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@c-24-147-69-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:45:53 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-65-36.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:48:22 wchogg [n=wchogg@71-34-77-216.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:20 -!- HET2 [n=diman@80.3.31.126] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:50:48 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:52:21 -!- jahmarley [n=kenan@88.238.214.83] has left #lisp 01:52:39 dialtone [n=dialtone@98.210.155.172] has joined #lisp 01:52:43 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-65-36.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:54:17 Summermute [n=scott@68.34.67.216] has joined #lisp 01:55:30 kevliu_ [n=kevliu@24-177-119-121.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:32 -!- kevliu_ [n=kevliu@24-177-119-121.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has left #lisp 02:00:11 xcvb does parallel builds? .. i notice clbuild tracks dependencies based on asdf .. is it possible to "combine" this information? 02:01:23 (..perhaps i should wait until fare(?) is around wrt. this..) 02:03:47 qbg [n=qbg@discovery.morris.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 02:08:06 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:16:57 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:25:13 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.127] has joined #lisp 02:26:17 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:44 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.127] has quit [Client Quit] 02:29:40 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@19-0-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:29:53 Tordek [n=tordek@host172.190-230-90.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:30:37 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 02:31:15 Makoryu [n=vt920@166.186.171.132] has joined #lisp 02:31:33 seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:33 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 02:34:03 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 02:34:31 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:26 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@32.154.13.117] has joined #lisp 02:37:12 nvoorhies__ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:27 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:37:27 -!- nvoorhies__ is now known as nvoorhies 02:45:39 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@32.154.13.117] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:46:00 illumina` [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:57 -!- yoonkn_ [n=yoonkn@112.169.40.70] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:52:00 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-223-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:35 Xach: herep 02:52:35 gigamonkey, memo from wgl: Links missing on jeffries blog links 02:59:38 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:17 minion: memo for wgl: thanks! I forgot to update some of my blog code on my actual server. 03:00:18 Remembered. I'll tell wgl when he/she/it next speaks. 03:00:37 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-198-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:46 Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:48 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 03:06:04 -!- illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:07:18 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@166.186.171.132] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:11:31 gigamonkey: Your post seems to be on HN as well. 03:11:32 wgl, memo from gigamonkey: thanks! I forgot to update some of my blog code on my actual server. 03:15:54 -!- qbg [n=qbg@discovery.morris.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:19:54 mcspiff [n=user@142.177.75.91] has joined #lisp 03:20:39 -!- salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [] 03:21:07 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:24:39 salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 03:29:11 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 03:30:14 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:25 jasber_ [n=bjasper@173-26-98-219.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:50 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 03:31:59 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:35:20 -!- marioxcc [n=user@201.132.137.93] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:38:52 Undead_Lisper [n=lispzomb@pool-173-76-29-230.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:54 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:15 common-lisp.net is down? 03:39:28 jlf [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 03:39:31 need gpg key for cl-containers 03:41:38 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 03:41:46 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:46:30 Fuufie [n=innocent@80.203.225.86] has joined #lisp 03:47:10 -!- jasber [n=bjasper@173-26-98-219.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:53:41 -!- jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:00:44 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 04:03:16 jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:50 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:03:51 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:04:19 Undead_Lisper: common-lisp.net up from here 04:04:42 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:05:09 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 04:05:28 mjonsson [n=mjonsson@cpe-74-68-112-229.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:08:52 -!- Undead_Lisper [n=lispzomb@pool-173-76-29-230.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:09:41 -!- OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:10:12 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 04:11:15 Hey, wgl 04:12:28 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 04:19:58 -!- mcspiff [n=user@142.177.75.91] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:20:01 mcspiff [n=user@142.177.75.91] has joined #lisp 04:20:36 hum .. multiple people/projects naming their packages "xml" is a pretty bad idea 04:20:48 pem_ [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has joined #lisp 04:23:25 Good morning! 04:24:43 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:24:49 Morning, beach. 04:25:06 Though I'm about to toddle off to bed. So goodnight. ;-) 04:26:03 goodnight! 04:28:46 rootzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 04:31:23 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-65-36.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:31:48 -!- _YKY_ [i=YKY@n11649160092.netvigator.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:32:35 -!- cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-227-242.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:33:33 -!- pjb` [n=t@85-169-63-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:35:41 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 04:37:06 -!- jasber_ [n=bjasper@173-26-98-219.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:46:40 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-3-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 04:52:25 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-58-22.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:53:03 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:53:23 Omg, when emacs source-level parsing fails, it does hit hard. Cannot use slime on misparsed code... 04:53:54 Or is it a slime problem, actually? 04:55:39 All of a sudden, my giant docstring is now part of source code, and hitting slime-compile-toplevel on the defmacro barfs at me. 04:57:48 -!- mcspiff [n=user@142.177.75.91] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:58:50 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 05:00:31 -!- beach [n=user@90.55.84.22] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:01:06 Adlai`` [n=adlai@93-172-158-62.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 05:01:07 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-99-33-92-164.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:13 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:03:52 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:04:09 *lnostdal* goes for slime-compile-and-load-file when that happens 05:04:41 deepfire: You need a better parser, such as the incremental one that is included in Climacs. 05:04:48 (i.e. when i don't have time to figure out what's really wrong :P) 05:06:46 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:10:27 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-223-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:11:35 beach, doubtless.. I need to try climacs again soon.. 05:11:52 -!- ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.88] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:12:26 redblue [i=star@ppp025.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:19:17 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@71-34-77-216.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:20:16 bdowning_ [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:37 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:22:20 with some initial fiddling, named-readtables works great :) 05:22:47 how is climacs doing? 05:23:57 -!- xristos [n=x@research.suspicious.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:25:39 Ralith: It is not going anywhere at the moment, and it still has some bugs, but it is quite usable. 05:26:17 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-60-169.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:27:58 why not going anywhere? 05:28:28 Ralith: because you're not working on it, of course :D 05:29:01 >_> 05:29:29 if only I didn't already have 2-3x as many projects as I can manage already 05:30:39 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:31:19 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:31:27 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 05:32:08 lake [n=irchon@h82.246.140.67.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:21 -!- lake [n=irchon@h82.246.140.67.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:34:16 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:40 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:35:14 -!- bdowning_ is now known as bdowning 05:35:50 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 05:36:27 whee, paktahn update 05:36:47 Ralith: are you hosting your tree up on github? 05:36:47 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 05:37:07 or I can check myself. 05:37:27 Ralith: Nobody is really working on it at the moment. I could do it myself, but I know what would happen (i.e., I would find bugs in McCLIM that need fixing before Climacs can be fixed), so I am working on McCLIM instead at the moment. 05:37:43 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:37:48 Ralith: But even that is going very slowly because I have a full-time job, and (like you) many other projects. 05:38:13 beach: whatever happened to grad student slavery? 05:38:31 sykopomp: Good question. 05:39:25 splittist [n=dmurray@85.4.220.156] has joined #lisp 05:39:30 morning 05:39:59 sykopomp: Essentially it is no longer possible in the Bologna system. A PhD student should graduate in 3 years. That doesn't leave time to do any substantial speculative research, let alone to work on something other than what is immediately interesting to the dissertation. For that reason, I am no longer taking on any grad students (as a general rule, at least). 05:40:28 hello splittist 05:40:48 that's a bit unfortunate. I was getting the impression that that sort of experience (actually working on something) was most valuable out of the entire process. 05:40:50 :\ 05:41:12 sykopomp: You are right, but the rules are not favorable. 05:41:35 I understand. 05:41:49 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:01 as far as mcclim goes, I look forward to seeing it improve -- I keep getting into other projects instead of learning it :\ 05:42:04 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 05:42:50 hi, does anybody knows what algorithms does SBCL use for register allocation? 05:43:00 Does SBCL has a retargetable code generator? 05:45:41 hello huangjs, good to see you around here, too! 05:45:42 attila_lendvai, memo from bobbysmith007: thanks for some patches you made to rfc2109 (years ago) to make it work with IE by default, you saved me some headache this afternoon once I realised the asdf install version was the reason it wasnt working in IE 05:48:55 konr [n=konrad@201.82.141.180] has joined #lisp 05:49:01 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.141.180] has left #lisp 05:55:20 attila_lendvai: hi 05:55:25 Harag [n=phil@196.2.113.129] has joined #lisp 05:55:35 attila_lendvai: nice to see you too 05:57:40 huangjs: if you are still looking for some web stuff in cl, we have set up http://dwim.hu meanwhile. it's on slow net, and it's v0.0.1, but there's a dynamically generated, 99% accurate install script there... 05:57:47 konr [n=konrad@201.82.141.180] has joined #lisp 05:58:59 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:59:28 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:19 hm, darcs is still getting itself stuck in 100% cpu usage infinite loops from time to time (using 2.0.2 atm.) 06:01:42 lnostdal: you need to use the hashed repo format to avoid that. 06:01:58 and 2.0.2 is pretty old 06:03:15 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@85.4.220.156] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:03:27 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-5-11.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:15 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 06:04:42 aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has joined #lisp 06:07:01 attila_lendvai, ok, i'm trying to setup a build-bot type of thing based on clbuild .. so this is out of my control i think .. (here http://gitorious.org/clbuild it is currently re-building so the log is incomplete) 06:08:27 i'd like to include as many projects as possible there btw. and do builds daily or almost daily 06:09:39 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 06:09:50 attila_lendvai: nice to hear your web framework is announced! :) 06:09:59 lnostdal: dunno. you can tell darcs to "darcs get --hashed remote-repo-url" to clone the remote as a hashed repo locally (but i guess if the remote repo is darcs1 and was pushed once, then a pull should also work from there...) 06:11:51 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-13-227.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:11:51 -!- KingNatoG5_ is now known as KingNatoG5 06:13:26 huangjs: heh, well... it's being refactored, etc... so, i'm not that proud of a ready-packaged something... but we have paying projects and we even have a user who has a contract of his own... :) 06:13:55 Adlai``` [n=adlai@85-250-227-99.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 06:14:10 Is Let Over Lambda relevant to all lisps, including clojure? 06:14:33 if only clojure were a lisp... 06:14:43 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 06:15:36 well, it lacks only reader macros and tail recursion, doesn't it? 06:16:00 it has a sort of tail recursion with a special call 06:16:20 sure, C lacks the reader macros and TCO, too, doesn't it? 06:16:51 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has joined #lisp 06:17:10 serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06de4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:14 good morning 06:17:20 hi 06:17:40 sykopomp: anybody tried to call C a lisp? 06:18:06 and C has TCO as much as lisp does 06:18:26 sykopomp: you can do better than throw a straw-man 06:19:03 guaqua: more interesting than talking about clojure. 06:19:18 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 06:19:31 well now you stated it, no need to keep talking about it. next issue? 06:19:53 let's talk about common lisp. I like common lisp. 06:21:59 finally, a Lisp web framework gets some mainstream coverage: http://jeez.eu/2009/10/05/a-look-into-other-programming-languages-frameworks/ 06:22:28 haa .. i saw that .. it's actually a april fools joke, fusss 06:22:34 sssh 06:22:42 :P 06:22:44 ^_^ 06:24:04 lnostdal: is that gitorious link your build-bot type thingy or just the fork of clbuild? 06:24:11 wait so... they fell for an april fools' joke? :P 06:24:41 (I've been looking for a CI type thing for lisp code, so...) 06:25:35 thijso, hm .. both? .. the idea is to have something that follows development close to real-time .. i really like the dependency tracking in clbuild, but it is hard to keep that up-to-date on ones own system since a complete global checkout is needed for that 06:25:52 ..development of as many lisp projects as possible in real-time that is 06:26:56 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-206-114-117.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:27:54 i think we (lispers :P) have got to use the branching feature in our scm's tbh. .. there is a lot of stuff that breaks because people patch libraries locally and don't (get them) push(ed) them upstream 06:28:45 -!- Adlai`` [n=adlai@93-172-158-62.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:29:30 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-60-169.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:29:50 give me a reason to think that clbuild isn't a waste of time (if the case was that a CPAN-like distribution system already existed) 06:29:56 please* 06:30:18 unless you're just talking about development, not distribution :P 06:30:33 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-60-169.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:32:32 so, you patched clbuild to also do CI type stuff? Or is that in a separate part of that gitorious repo? And is it adaptable for other CI uses for lisp code? 06:32:36 might as well combine the two, sykopomp ? .. not use different repositories for both, sykopomp 06:32:51 (shower, btw... brb) 06:32:58 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 06:33:08 i don't know what CI is, thijso 06:33:17 -!- illumina` [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:33:24 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:33:43 just want as much as possible to actually build; that's the goal .. away (comment out) with what doesn't build out-of-the box 06:33:44 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:33:55 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:58 lnostdal: I think if everyone actually pushed only tagged versions into their master branch, and you could reliably say "The version I expect to pull is a particular version that does X Y and Z", as opposed to "whatever pulled today", then we wouldn't have much of a problem. 06:34:23 hello 06:35:03 but it seems like this sort of ad-hoc distribution system where you're not really sure what you're loading into your lisp image is problematic (and indeed, it causes plenty of headaches in some cases -- such as with SLIME) 06:37:20 e.g. now i discover that teepeedee2 depends on some feature in parenscript that isn't generally available (he's probably using a patched version of the library), so i comment it out and push .. if c|mell was here i'd nag him .. :} 06:37:54 sykopomp: incf for tagged versions 06:38:43 kroger [n=user@adsl-76-204-16-73.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:22 this'd take a long time to figure out building on my laptop here 06:39:40 -!- kroger [n=user@adsl-76-204-16-73.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 06:39:43 (i got access to a fast server now, so might as well use it for something useful ..) 06:40:42 "229 system definition files registered" --> "writing 215273472 bytes from the dynamic space at 0x1000000000" .. so that's 200'ish lisp projects that work out-of-the-box 06:40:44 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:40:54 (sbcl core dump with all of them in .. heh) 06:44:36 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@84-72-45-92.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [] 06:46:57 -!- knobo` [n=user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:48:13 beach, e.g. mcclim doesn't build; 06:48:15 unhandled ASDF:MISSING-COMPONENT in thread #: 06:48:15 component "clim-examples" not found 06:48:35 (trying to add back (uncomment) one and one project now... :P) 06:49:25 -!- cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:49:38 cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has joined #lisp 06:54:56 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:55:16 good morning 06:55:37 lnostdal: sorry, CI is Continuous Integration, i.e. monitored automatic builds and test runs that trigger (most often) on code repo changes and tell you when you broke something in your code... 06:56:34 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:57:12 angel_ [n=angel@221.223.126.169] has joined #lisp 06:57:46 see, for example, hudson and CruiseControl 06:58:00 can anyone give me an example useing 'gensym 06:58:00 and now I'm off to work... 07:02:06 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:02:17 -!- angel_ [n=angel@221.223.126.169] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:02:28 -!- Fuufie [n=innocent@80.203.225.86] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:09:21 thijso, something like that might be possible; just dumpcore vs. that single project instead of all-projects perhaps 07:10:40 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:12:52 lnostdal: we have that working written in CL, but we only test it using sbcl 07:13:20 lnostdal: you provide a system name and then ask for an image that contains all the dependencies but not the system itself 07:13:32 ideal when working on that system 07:13:34 beach, i probably did something wrong here, so disregard my other message .. where is png-read? .. i think that's missing from clbuild atm. http://github.com/Ramarren/png-read ? 07:14:09 for the reference: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.build;a=summary 07:14:40 it is used to build itself and emit an sbcl executable core with command line args 07:14:56 so, essentially a build.exe written in cl 07:15:03 lake [n=irchon@h82.246.140.67.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:54 -!- lake [n=irchon@h82.246.140.67.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:16:10 lake [n=irchon@h82.246.140.67.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:07 -!- lake [n=irchon@h82.246.140.67.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:22:14 spacebat2 [n=spacebat@58.171.161.63] has joined #lisp 07:24:53 levy [n=levy@94.44.18.112] has joined #lisp 07:26:22 -!- spacebat2 [n=spacebat@58.171.161.63] has quit [] 07:26:39 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:27:29 ASau [n=user@host79-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 07:27:46 the dependency tracking stuff is interesting, attila_lendvai .. clbuild does it too 07:27:47 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:28:00 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:28:59 perhaps it could have been an asdf-find-dependencies project or so .. just to have something shared 07:29:54 well, our build.lisp is 200 lines of code. depends on heavily factored other hu.dwim libs 07:30:55 yeah 07:31:16 hu.dwim.asdf, right? 07:33:47 ok, mcclim builds now .. so a patch vs. the original clbuild was needed (png-read was missing) .. now users can do ./clbuild install mcclim and it'll download everything needed .. :) 07:35:08 levy_ [n=levy@89.223.202.4] has joined #lisp 07:35:30 lnostdal: hu.dwim.asdf is a small lib for asdf related stuff, like automatic workspace dir scanning for .asd's and some subclassed asdf:operation's for dealing with readtables. 07:35:51 but levy just came online, he can tell more about how the build stuff works 07:36:06 ahyeah, i remember that dir scanning patch .. excellent (no more symlinks!) 07:36:47 i stole it from wui, i think .. and have been using it for a while .. though, clbuild maintains symlinks for the projects it provides though 07:36:48 that symlinks based setup was so annoying that i never missed it since we switched... 07:39:51 -!- bla [n=bla@195.82.188.30] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:40:09 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229081089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:42:43 -!- levy [n=levy@94.44.18.112] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:44:12 lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-240-220.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:46 girzel [n=user@222.169.203.77] has joined #lisp 07:45:46 attila_lendvai: sounds interesting... 07:45:54 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:46:52 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:51:27 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:52:18 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:54:21 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has joined #lisp 07:55:30 g'day 07:56:06 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-82-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 07:58:14 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:01:27 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:17 is (with-open-file ( ) ....) using :element-type 'base-char on default meaning ASCII or what is defined in locale? do i have to (how?) force single-byte-encoding, too to get ASCII representation of what i read from the file? 08:03:06 the meaning of 'base-char is implementation-dependent 08:03:54 trebor_dki: you need to provide :external-format :ascii 08:03:56 to get ascii on sbcl, use :ascii 08:04:03 trebor_dki: depends on which single-byte encoding you want, and which impl you're on 08:04:17 if you're on sbcl, I suppose you mean the :latin1 external-format 08:04:31 but I would urge you to think about this a bit more 08:05:12 these things have the potential to go catastrophically wrong (: 08:05:14 i only want to read numbers 08:05:27 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:06:21 then :ascii it is 08:06:29 so it will be (with-open-file ( :external-format :ascii), thanks 08:06:41 morphling [n=stefan@89.13.41.126] has joined #lisp 08:08:51 btw, all further processing (subseq, position and so on (for processing string representations of numbers)) automatically uses ascii as internal representation, too, right? 08:09:11 nope. it'll work on characters 08:09:25 if you work on strings 08:10:00 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 08:10:05 trebor_dki, why would you care about the internal representation? 08:10:11 and they are an opaque data type. 08:10:16 what lpolzer says (: 08:11:11 you can work with char-code (which gives you something useful, most of the time), but if you find yourself using this too often, you might consider switching to (unsigned-byte 8) element-types 08:12:09 so, if i do (read0line nil nil) of a 80(+1) ascii-character line, this can consume (80 * x) + y bytes of ram, even if was declare :external-format :ascii? 08:13:34 lpolzer: because i am running out of memory faar to early. i only can read 100mb of data with 512mb space available. 08:13:53 ram-space i mean. 08:17:14 trebor_dki: if it was not clear, no matter what external format you use for reading the file, the string data read is still stored in implementation's specific internal string representation 08:17:23 no_mind_ [n=orion@122.163.250.15] has joined #lisp 08:17:23 -!- no_mind [n=orion@122.163.248.95] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:17:37 trebor_dki: which most probably is more than a single byte for a character 08:17:55 trebor_dki, you want to use octet vectors then 08:19:04 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:22:02 *trebor_dki* is little confused, he has to re-read relevant chapters (subtypes, base-string) in cltl and scan sbcls manual 08:22:55 trebor_dki, with strings you're always dependent on the internal string representation of your implementation 08:23:15 using vectors of 8bit elements you circumvent that 08:24:15 clhs standard-char 08:24:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_std_ch.htm 08:24:29 -!- asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [] 08:24:38 -!- pem_ is now known as pem 08:25:35 asksol [n=ask@213.236.208.22] has joined #lisp 08:26:23 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:28:11 djinni` [n=djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 08:28:48 -!- udzinari [n=user@195.212.29.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:29:14 udzinari [n=user@195.212.29.179] has joined #lisp 08:29:29 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:30:12 can I read Let Over Lambda without reading first On Lisp? Is there a reason not to do so? 08:30:23 djinni` [n=djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 08:30:30 sounds like you should read Gentle Intro first. 08:31:10 this one? http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 08:31:31 yes. 08:31:43 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.134.99] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:31:45 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-183-99-177.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:42 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:32:51 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:34:27 hmmm it looks like mostly a reference book, isn't it? 08:34:33 not at all, no. 08:34:50 it's a fine book. Have it on my shelf and enjoyed it quite a bit. 08:35:30 konr: once you're done with that one, you can move on to PCL, then maybe PAIP after that. 08:36:09 konr, I've come to like Successful Lisp http://www.psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/ 08:36:23 it's easy to read and explore on-screen too 08:36:25 jdz: doing in a loop: for line of-type (vector standard-char) = (read-line nil nil), will result in a vector of characters represented as numbers < 96, so <= 8 bit per element. 08:36:58 lpolzer: wow, what a bunch of bastards (the publishers) 08:37:01 s/./? 08:37:09 sykopomp, yes, very. :( 08:37:44 lpolzer: what do you like about that book, btw? 08:37:52 c|mell [n=cmell@115.137.96.176] has joined #lisp 08:38:30 it's free and tackles a large range of topics with a hands-on approach 08:38:45 trebor_dki: you don't have to type-annotate your LINE variable, because what READ-LINE returns depends on the stream 08:38:45 oh nice 08:39:06 a beginner book though, so after some time you want to move on to other resources... 08:42:55 when I started with CL I also came across the Gentle Introduction but IIRC I found it too theoretical and detailed for what I needed at that time 08:43:53 Gentle Intro was basically my introduction to programming, I'm quite fond of it. I agree it's more theoretical than some might want, but it was good at the time. 08:45:03 why is this: "The value "#nix" is not of type (OR NULL (VECTOR STANDARD-CHAR))"? all characters are in the repertoire of standard-char. 08:47:05 trebor_dki: but the string is not of that type 08:47:21 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.136.107] has joined #lisp 08:48:13 jdz: ouch, you are right. /me needing coffee, pausing 08:50:06 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [No route to host] 08:50:45 trebor_dki, I have a feeling this is going to be fun. :) 08:51:59 schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/freenode/x-ecrlumroxjmatkuz] has joined #lisp 08:53:12 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 08:56:12 bla [n=bla@195.82.188.30] has joined #lisp 08:56:30 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 08:58:09 blandest [n=user@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 08:59:35 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:49 anyone knows which is currently the best slime clone for vi? 09:00:07 SLIME is the best slime clone. 09:00:13 I must say, it's quite nice. 09:00:39 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:03:27 konr: if your aim is to use vim-like bindings, I've heard of some success in using viper-mode in emacs. Otherwise, there's been plenty of lisp programmers out there that worked by simply editing in vim and copy-pasting code into the REPL in a terminal. 09:03:41 paul graham probably being one of the most well-known 09:04:00 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.181.57.79] has left #lisp 09:04:05 there's something called Limp that aims to be SLIME-like, but last I checked, it didn't actually work. 09:04:20 sykopomp: viper-mode doesn't work well with slime, unfortunately :( 09:04:30 Why not? 09:04:32 konr: how so? 09:04:33 *Maddas* didn't have any problems 09:05:15 I don't really remember why, but it didn't when I tried it a couple of years ago 09:05:18 mikejones [n=qqqq@c-66-30-245-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:14 hmm, I'll check it again 09:06:17 *Maddas* has one viper-related defadvice in his .emacs, but it's not slime-specific 09:06:45 (But it is related to using other modes in general, IIRC) 09:07:47 [05:06] hmm, I'll check it again 09:07:47 [05:06] * Maddas has one viper-related defadvice in his .emacs, but it's not slime-specific 09:07:47 [05:06] (But it is related to using other modes in general, IIRC) 09:07:58 Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:08:10 mikejones: yes? 09:08:17 mikejones: yes? 09:08:29 Krystof: ping 09:08:50 The thing at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88273 -- but I can't vouch for whether it's still necessary, though it didn't cause any problems. 09:10:36 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 105 (No buffer space available)] 09:10:57 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-60.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:11:31 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:11:31 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:11:31 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host172.190-230-90.telecom.net.ar] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:11:31 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [holmes.freenode.net 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quit [Killed by niven.freenode.net (Nick collision)] 09:13:13 -!- mikejones [n=qqqq@c-66-30-245-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:13:14 -!- male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:13:14 |male_terran| [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:32 rbancroft [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:51 is there a way to run sbcl (or any other CL implementation) as a server and then connect to it with clients? 09:15:03 yes, swank does that. 09:15:28 http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Connecting-to-a-remote-lisp.html 09:15:40 mikejones [n=qqqq@c-66-30-245-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:24 -!- mikejones [n=qqqq@c-66-30-245-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:16:39 mikejones [n=qqqq@c-66-30-245-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:40 -!- ASau [n=user@host79-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:20:52 -!- mikejones [n=qqqq@c-66-30-245-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:21:05 mikejones [n=qqqq@c-66-30-245-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:38 -!- mikejones [n=qqqq@c-66-30-245-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:21:42 *c|mell* notes that tpd2 has proven to fall over everytime it is put under load 09:21:49 mikejones [n=qqqq@c-66-30-245-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:19 testing? what's the devil does that word mean 09:22:52 _____ _ _ ____ _ __ _____ ____ _____ _____ _ _ ___ ____ _____ 09:22:52 | ___| | | |/ ___| |/ / | ___| _ \| ____| ____| \ | |/ _ \| _ \| ____| 09:22:52 | |_ | | | | | | ' / | |_ | |_) | _| | _| | \| | | | | | | | _| 09:22:52 | _| | |_| | |___| . \ | _| | _ <| |___| |___| |\ | |_| | |_| | |___ 09:22:52 |_| \___/ \____|_|\_\ |_| |_| \_\_____|_____|_| \_|\___/|____/|_____| 09:23:02 took him long enough. 09:23:40 -!- mikejones [n=qqqq@c-66-30-245-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:24:02 mikejones [n=qqqq@c-66-30-245-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:19 -!- bla [n=bla@195.82.188.30] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:25:50 mikejones: go away 09:26:07 c|mell: o the irony :( 09:26:58 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 09:27:06 so Swank is the software that makes sbcl into a server and slime is the client part plus the emacs features? Isn't it possible to write a vi client for swank or modify vimclojure so that it uses swank instead of its "nailgun server"? 09:27:08 -!- Xach has set mode -b *!*n=user@88.238.33.90 09:27:10 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*n=qqqq@*.hsd1.ma.comcast.net 09:27:18 -!- mikejones [n=qqqq@c-66-30-245-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [K-lined] 09:27:32 konr: yes, it is possible. 09:27:38 <_3b> konr: people try regularly, apparently vim is the problem 09:27:50 or vim users :) 09:28:10 <_3b> well, at least they make an attempt, so i won't blame them :) 09:29:02 vim has trouble to handle anything extern to the vim core (processes, network conns, etc.) 09:30:09 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:30:26 -!- aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:31:40 -!- yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:32:14 galdor: if vimscript calls perl it is no problem, but the other direction is problematic, vim windows, buffers etc.. 09:34:39 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:35:29 galdor: I think starting over with nvi or elvis would be easier than trying to force vimscript. 09:36:41 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:37:06 lharc: problem is, most people use vim 09:37:40 I tried some time ago to see how to integrate lisp in vim, and my conclusion was "just run sbcl in another term" 09:39:12 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:39:52 galdor: I think most *lisp* people don't use vim 09:40:19 well, but vimclojure currently works with vim, so if we change the client part to connect to swank instead of connecting to the JVM, I guess it would work 09:40:42 konr: sounds like we have a volunteer, hurrah. 09:42:09 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@76.104.183.185] has joined #lisp 09:42:20 mishoo: some lisp people are their muscle memory trained to work with vim 09:42:49 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@93.37.244.8] has joined #lisp 09:42:58 so I guess the only hope is a vim clone written in common lisp :) 09:43:25 galdor: or try viper-mode 09:43:35 angel_ [n=angel@221.223.126.169] has joined #lisp 09:43:38 incf mishoo 09:43:47 might help with the muscle memory issue, but obviously the best thing to do is to retrain, if you're going to stick with emacs in the end 09:43:51 viper-mode is fine if you believe that vim is just half a dozen key shortcuts 09:44:08 when you really use vim, viper-mode is kind of a joke (no offense) 09:44:36 *Maddas* mainly missed the half-a-dozen-key-shortcuts parts of vim when he moved to emacs, so that was fine :-) 09:44:40 and you assume these people are gonna use emacs eventually 09:45:04 I thought I was the only one, but when reading Let Over Lambda, I felt better :) 09:45:15 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46:13 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 09:46:13 viper is a joke indeed for vim users :/ 09:46:28 and vimpulse.el isn't up to it either 09:46:43 yeah, simulation always sucks. the same I felt about "vimacs" some time ago when I was trying to make vim bearable :)\ 09:46:54 *sykopomp* points out that vim is a joke for emacs users. 09:47:04 ;D 09:47:13 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:47:21 *appears* Limp was useful for me. *vanishes* 09:47:30 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 09:47:36 Axioplase_: oh? 09:48:07 silenius_ [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:38 -!- girzel [n=user@222.169.203.77] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:48:45 dude, how do I quit viper mode? :)) 09:48:52 looks like I started it by mistake 09:48:53 :q? 09:49:09 no, it wants to close emacs.. 09:49:44 when everything else fails, try reading the manual. 09:51:12 reading manuals is for wimps 09:51:23 when all else fails, wave a chicken 09:51:28 lpolzer: so they should go on IRC and ask annoying questions instead? 09:51:29 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:51:38 sykopomp, oh yeah, that's before all else fails 09:51:43 oh ok 09:51:45 rofl 09:56:58 ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 10:02:19 -!- salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [] 10:04:53 -!- jan247 [n=jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [] 10:07:41 lispm [n=joswig@e177153198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:08:07 -!- angel_ [n=angel@221.223.126.169] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:08:44 danlei [n=user@pD9E2C92A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:27 c|mell, does your teepeedee depend on custom patches wrt. parenscript? 10:11:05 it doesn't work with the current ps head 10:11:21 aye 10:11:25 how sure can I be that Safari would work with dwim.hu if it works with Konqueror? 10:11:30 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:12:26 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 10:14:04 the only difference i've noticed wrt. webkit based browsers is that the chrome (or browser UI) reacts differently wrt. the "Loading..." feedback if you do weird stuff like e.g. comet and stuff 10:14:29 lnostdal, it used to depend on custom patches, then they were accepted by parenscript 10:14:31 c|mell, "Symbol "DOEACH" not found in the PARENSCRIPT package." 10:14:36 now parenscript renamed something 10:14:46 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@93.37.244.8] has quit [] 10:14:52 but note that the correct parenscript is distributed with tpd2 10:15:29 Chrome and Konqueror *do* behave differently on dwim.hu 10:15:58 same webkit build/back-end, levy_ ? .. that certainly still matter 10:16:25 (about -> version or the user-agent mentions something wrt. this i think) 10:16:27 lnostdal, I don't know how to check it, but probably not 10:17:52 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:18:53 do you guys have a good tool to test tpd2 (or general http servers) with? 10:19:49 it is stable for large numbers of nice connexions but when people do weird stuff (like its first slashdotting with someone sending strange non-unicode codepoints) it crashes 10:20:21 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 10:22:04 (of course, the unicode issues on ccl are now history, fingers crossed) 10:23:24 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32D88B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:43 lpolzer, did you see; http://gitorious.org/clbuild ..? .. i'm trying to automate things a bit and test with latest sbcl etc. 10:24:02 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:24:58 lnostdal, I did not, in fact 10:25:17 lnostdal, I might consider adopting your branch for my work, thanks 10:26:27 btw. .. elephant needs some xml file i think .. i tried adding weblocks 10:27:24 kinda makes it tricky to automate from a clean checkout of things on a fresh server 10:28:46 *lnostdal* recalls darcs having some ignore facility(?) 10:31:50 ..and/or is it possible to build wb without (elephant) requiring a db (c libraries) etc.? 10:31:56 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:34 lnostdal, elephant doesn't need an xml file, but its bdb backend needs some configuration via a sexp file 10:33:46 yeah, that's it 10:33:59 weblocks doesn't have external deps if you just rely on the memory or prevalence stores 10:34:12 -!- Alice_I_W [i=stepnem@server1.bshellz.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:34:15 Alice_I_W [i=stepnem@server1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:40 -!- yahooooo [n=yahooooo@76.104.183.185] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:34:47 that'd be cl-prevalence ..? 10:34:51 yes 10:36:37 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-60.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 10:36:54 hello 10:37:21 anybody seen this? (SB-IMPL::%FAILED-AVER (ZEROP (HASH-TABLE-COUNT (SB-C::CORE-OBJECT-PATCH-TABLE SB-C::OBJECT)))) 10:38:52 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 10:41:38 manuel__ [n=manuel@pD9E6F2F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:02 salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 10:45:58 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 10:46:11 lpolzer, i got to blacklist "weblocks-elephant" or clbuild tries to load it automatically it seems .. (which in turn leads to elepant going for the libmemutil.so backend which does not exist on this build server, at least not atm.; http://gitorious.org/clbuild/pages/Elephant ) 10:47:49 -!- cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:47:59 cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has joined #lisp 10:48:08 (..*blacklisted-systems* in clbuild.lisp that is..) 10:48:30 any goot tool you recommend to capture and visualize HTTP traffic under ubuntu? 10:48:50 wireshark 10:49:41 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:50:11 drafael [n=tapio@118.90.128.137] has joined #lisp 10:50:53 levy_: as long as it's not SSL, that is 10:51:04 no its plain HTTP 10:51:05 thanks I'll try that 10:51:39 lpolzer, so it ends up like this; http://gitorious.org/clbuild/clbuild/commit/f19fd89fdcf6ca06e69eb2ddbc512ad1e31a322f 10:51:39 levy_: there's also the httpfox extension 10:51:50 lnostdal, one could imagine a default elephant/bdb config file 10:51:57 lnostdal, of course you need to have bdb installed in any case 10:52:12 I'm trying to debug Konqueror 10:52:17 ok 10:52:39 levy_: the konqueror of kde3 or kde4 ? 10:52:57 lpolzer, ok, yeah 10:53:18 good question, I'm under ubuntu 10:53:22 joswig [n=joswig@e177127052.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:53:39 kde 4.2.2 10:53:42 ok 10:54:57 -!- seangrove [n=user@c-98-248-37-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:55:07 levy_: the one in kde3 doesn't have a good JS implementation, so IMO it's not worth supporting 10:55:33 fe[nl]ix, thanks, we won't 10:55:54 we will support only recent versions 10:58:23 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:58:56 dwh [n=dwh@118.209.232.128] has joined #lisp 11:01:35 fe[nl]ix, there are no capture interfaces in wireshark, do I have to install something else too? or some conifg somewhere? 11:02:23 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177153198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:02:51 ah, root 11:03:08 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:04:34 levy_: dumpcap -w ./dumpfile as root, then open that file with wireshark 11:06:33 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:03 it seems the new parenscript needs a massive rewrite of all parenscript code ever 11:08:29 <_3b> has it changed in the last few days? 11:08:52 you can't use object.property and even worse (object.method x y z) 11:08:53 -!- eihrul [n=eihrul@ip72-193-224-224.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:09:15 <_3b> ah, yeah... that bit is a bit annoying 11:09:34 i think this is the new release you were complaining about not working with tpd2 11:09:36 -!- levy_ [n=levy@89.223.202.4] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:09:39 <_3b> ((@ foo bar) ...) is a bit verbose :( 11:09:49 is that the recommended way? 11:10:11 <_3b> i think so, i've been having trouble figuring out how things work in ps 11:10:19 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:10:28 yeah, object.property is (slot-value object 'property) etc. 11:10:30 *_3b* is probably just looking in the wrong place or something 11:10:46 <_3b> that is even more too verbose :p 11:11:11 -!- salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [] 11:12:00 doesn't necessarily seem like a step forward :) 11:12:14 guess i will wait for vladimir to sort it out before rewriting everything 11:17:19 eihrul [n=eihrul@ip72-193-224-224.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:47 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118.90.128.137] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:20:44 scottmaccal [n=scott@169.244.94.54] has joined #lisp 11:27:25 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp025.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:29:25 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:29:43 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:31:05 anyone knows how does cl-json tell when a certain list is an alist or simply a list of lists? (since they serialize differently) 11:31:40 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 11:31:42 mishoo: you've found the big problem with cl-json. It just cannot. 11:31:51 mishoo: Be serrious, use s-exps! 11:32:18 matimago: I thought this might be the answer.. :-/ 11:32:51 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Killed by tomaw (Lagged)] 11:33:02 Or you could wrap your data structures in a specially made s-exp, to be serialized in json, so that when you deserialize it, you can revert from that s-exp to your data structures.s 11:33:20 Not worth it, if you're actually talking to a javascript. 11:33:28 yeah, I think that's what I do 11:33:33 matimago: why not worth it? 11:33:38 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 11:33:40 lichtblau: ping 11:33:47 hi 11:33:54 Because javascript doesn't have the lisp datatypes. 11:34:29 mishoo: Consider that json is just a message encoding protocol. Don't see it from the point of view of your lisp data structures. 11:35:57 lichtblau: in cxml/xml/xmlns-normalizer.lisp, last defmethod, there's a spurious (declare (ignore qname)) 11:37:07 "reading an ignored variable: QNAME" 11:38:49 Xach: ping 11:40:45 Xach: in zs3/utils.lisp:stream-subset-vector "undefined function: ZS3::STREAM-OCTETS-UNTIL-EOF" 11:43:04 *trebor_dki* notices that besides all other flaws (still memory issues with strings) using (sb-ext:gc :full nil) helps somehow (crashing after 187 files now (130 before)) 11:43:28 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:43:41 trebor_dki: what about trying it with clisp? 11:43:53 clisp has really very rarely crashed on me... 11:46:34 matimago: i do not know clisp, (i have ccl, ecl, cmucl installed here), googling, thanks 11:46:51 trebor_dki: Does it work with ccl? 11:47:06 c|mell, you could split the http server from the application/demo/example stuff .. well, it'd make it easier for people who want to use clbuild and the original parenscript that is 11:48:40 matimago: wait, i'll try. 11:52:27 matimago: i knew there was a reason, why i do no implementation-hopping - i can not load the package in slime, when using ccl: Undefined function CCL::ADJUST-COMPILER-WARNING-ARGS called with arguments (:UNUSED (FBECK20090929::F-DATA)) 11:53:01 Well, it's an investment, right. 11:59:35 matimago: i do (loop for i from 0 for element in collect ()) so i do not use element directly, only to know when finishes -- sbcl doesnt complain about this. ccl does. do i need to do dummy-functions with element or is there a way to do sth like (declare (ignore element)) without optimizing away stepping through 11:59:36 ? 12:02:02 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@115.137.96.176] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:04:17 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 12:07:47 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:09:44 -!- cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:09:53 cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has joined #lisp 12:11:19 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:12:59 *varjag* finally orders a copy of coders at work 12:13:19 gave in to the hype! 12:15:06 trebor_dki: perhaps with (declare (ignorable element)). 12:15:14 Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:16:13 trebor_dki: also, AFAIK, you may use nil as variable name in loop for: (loop for i from 0 for nil in '(1 2 3) collect i) 12:16:27 will it accept a dummy function that uses element? like (eq element element) or something? 12:16:31 trebor_dki: It's taken as () destructuring... 12:18:19 fe[nl]ix: i'll check it out, thanks. 12:19:47 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-99-33-92-164.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:19:49 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:20:13 binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has joined #lisp 12:20:24 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-99-33-92-164.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:07 fe[nl]ix: i think you're my first user! :) 12:21:50 not really 12:22:17 darn. well, i hope to get a user someday. 12:22:29 -!- blandest [n=user@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:22:34 I was updating the Gentoo repository and before pushing the update I usually check that it compiles fine and run the tests 12:24:14 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:25:07 tcr: I'll be at the base2stay Kensington. 12:25:08 wow, this nil thing works in loops e.g. (loop for nil = (princ " ") then (princ ",") ....), AND ecl being able to load all 200 files! 12:25:50 thanks matimago 12:26:36 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-73-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:26:51 trebor_dki: but be sure to report the bug to sbcl-devel! :-) 12:27:24 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-60-169.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:27:51 fe[nl]ix: okay, thanks for the report 12:29:11 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:27 sundar [n=sundar@sonsari.hyd.deshaw.com] has joined #lisp 12:33:55 LiamH [n=healy@129-2-175-69.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:36:36 zihado [n=zihado@211.52.46.152] has joined #lisp 12:37:09 -!- zihado [n=zihado@211.52.46.152] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:40:05 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [] 12:41:31 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:46 matimago: impressive, after using nil in loops, now sbcl runs through the code, reading all 200 files AND speeding up (from 30 seconds for 100 files, now 13 seconds for 200 files)! this is very very nice! THANK YOU (scnr) 12:44:59 -!- Adlai``` is now known as Adlai 12:46:05 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 12:46:09 hello 12:47:06 -!- no_mind_ [n=orion@122.163.250.15] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:47:25 c|mell [n=cmell@115.137.96.176] has joined #lisp 12:47:28 levy [n=levy@89.223.201.43] has joined #lisp 12:48:03 hi levy, is it safe to pull dwim head? 12:48:37 make sure you don't detach it 12:48:47 kami-, hi, there should be no regression at least 12:49:13 ehh :) 12:49:20 :) 12:49:42 I don't know what you mean by safe ;-) so I didn't want to say that 12:51:07 levy: how far did you get with the porting of the meta-gui? 12:51:24 no_mind [n=orion@122.163.250.15] has joined #lisp 12:52:33 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:37 kami-, not far, last week I was doing C++/Java 12:52:42 lpolzer: herep 12:52:56 levy: the same, here 12:53:11 this week I started to work on supporting all 5 major browsers namely: ff, ie, chrome, opera, safari 12:53:13 me-so-stupid [n=me-so-st@80.73.65.161] has joined #lisp 12:53:15 Adlai, what's up? 12:53:30 I'm -almost- ported paktahn to CCL, but I've run into some issues 12:53:50 paktahn? 12:53:51 one is command-line args, and the other is handling interrupts 12:54:46 -!- Harag [n=phil@196.2.113.129] has left #lisp 12:55:13 handling interrupts I just haven't looked into yet, but I've been having trouble with command-line args. CCL has its own framework for handling them, and it seems to be interfering 12:55:17 hi all! I'm lisp newbie and trying to configure lisp env on windows, ccl+emacs+slime, but when M+x slime Im getting "specified program for new process is a directory" and really dont know what to do 12:55:44 levy: is http://dwim.hu/live/sbcl a git repo, now? 12:56:14 m-s-s can you paste your .emacs on http://paste.lisp.org/ 12:56:43 kami-, ati changed that because sbcl *does* have an almost official git mirror 12:56:45 however, I think I can get around it by dumping a non-executable image, and having the paktahn executable be a script that starts the CCL kernel with the paktahn image and passes all command-line args there. Should I try that? 12:56:56 yes, one minute... 12:57:01 so we can have our own patches on top of that, and they can pull ours if something gets accepted 12:57:47 levy: is that the only change? 12:58:34 Adlai, what's the problem with command-line args? 12:58:38 kami-, no, the debugger issue related to sbcl invoking sbcl has been fixed meanwhile 12:58:42 Adlai, does CCL consume some of them? 12:58:44 so during build you can use the debugger 12:59:09 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:20 I followed that in hu.dwim.build, so if you don't clone that git repo, you should not get that patch in hu.dwim.build 12:59:27 lpolzer: CCL makes an executable by prepending its kernel to the dumped image, so the kernel actually does command-line arg processing before the dumped image gets to see the args. 12:59:29 levy: but I cannot git clone http://dwim.hu/live/sbcl. "Cannot get remote repository information." 12:59:34 hopefully that patch will be included sbcl soon 12:59:52 kami-, where did you get that url from? 13:00:04 I hope its not in the install doc 13:00:33 kami-: try again now 13:00:34 me-so-stupid pasted "my .emacs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88280 13:00:59 (setq inferior-lisp-program "c:/lispenv/ccl/") should point to the actual ccl executable 13:01:04 not to the directory 13:01:04 Adlai, sounds like a misfeature in CCL to me. perhaps try asking the CCL guys first before using a wrapper script? 13:01:05 kami-: also, use git://dwim.hu/git/sbcl/ instead 13:01:47 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:59 lpolzer: yeah, I feel the same way, although I'd like to get it working at the same time. 13:02:21 it works great, though 13:02:35 attila_lendvai: yes. With the correct URL, it works. 13:02:37 much faster than yaourt :) 13:02:54 Adlai, yes that was one of the design goals from the beginning :) 13:03:03 oh, lpolzer, another question... can I build exepak on x86_64? 13:03:11 Adlai, if you can make the PKGBUILD use a wrapper script in a painless way when paktahn is built with CCL, make it so 13:03:27 Adlai, I don't have a clue 13:04:00 (setq inferior-lisp-program "c:/lispenv/ccl/") 13:04:01 (add-to-list 'load-path "c:/lispenv/emacs/site-lisp/slime/") 13:04:01 (require 'slime) 13:04:01 (slime-setup) 13:04:01 ; disabling tool-bar 13:04:01 (custom-set-variables 13:04:02 '(tool-bar-mode nil)) 13:04:04 ; loading color themes 13:04:06 (add-to-list 'load-path "c:/lispenv/emacs/color-theme/") 13:04:08 (require 'color-theme) 13:04:10 (color-theme-initialize) 13:04:12 (color-theme-calm-forest) 13:04:14 oops 13:04:16 sorry 13:04:25 thanks! my slime is working know 13:05:00 hmm, lpolzer, I'm getting "==> Couldn't extract PKGBUILD data (error 71)" from paktahn when trying to install exepak. :\ 13:05:14 did you install paktahn? 13:05:25 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:27 it expects to find pkgbuild-helper.sh in /usr/lib 13:05:31 m-s-s try avoid pasting into this channel 13:05:35 /usr/lib/paktahn, that is 13:06:08 ah, ok, I'm still just running it out of ~/src/paktahn 13:06:39 yes, it was mistake, I paste my .emacs instead of your nick 13:07:06 me-so-stupid: most IRC clients tab-complete nicknames 13:07:57 Adlai: you just made my day :) 13:07:57 bobbysmith007, memo from attila_lendvai: you're welcome! it's a good idea to use the repos of everything and have some scripts for pulling patches in mass 13:07:59 ohw I see, thnx, Im newbie not only at lisp, also on IRC too 13:08:01 Adlai: holy crap why am I just learning that now 13:09:33 also one question, how can I get single executable or dll library with ccl on windows? is it possible? 13:09:40 *Adlai* glows 13:10:10 me-so-stupid: not sure about a dll, but look into ccl:save-application (however it does some funny business that I myself am trying to work around atm) 13:10:12 me-so-stupid: Executable, yes; DLL, no. 13:10:43 Adlai, do you happen to have a fork of your porting efforts? 13:10:49 Adlai thanks! 13:11:17 me-so-stupid: inferior-lisp-program should be something like c:/lispenv/ccl/wx86cl.exe 13:11:23 lpolzer: I actually haven't made that many changes, but let me put up a fork on github. Just a sec... 13:11:40 fe[nl]ix thnx, I fixed that problem 13:12:55 -!- me-so-stupid [n=me-so-st@80.73.65.161] has quit [] 13:13:17 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:32 Guthur [i=c13dbf2b@gateway/web/freenode/x-omxmkjrlyayfrwdx] has joined #lisp 13:14:01 -!- Guthur [i=c13dbf2b@gateway/web/freenode/x-omxmkjrlyayfrwdx] has quit [Client Quit] 13:14:11 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 13:16:27 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 13:16:39 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@115.137.96.176] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:18:09 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.132.61] has joined #lisp 13:20:10 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.136.107] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:25:28 Guthur [i=c13db437@gateway/web/freenode/x-ltfquvhhxgjajzzq] has joined #lisp 13:28:37 minion: memo for huangjs: CMUCL and SBCL target a decent number of architectures; most of the code is shared (most of the compiler's architecture specific code can be found in src/compiler/$ARCH, and are mostly VOP definitions). The register allocator is based on a greedy colouring algorithm. 13:28:37 Remembered. I'll tell huangjs when he/she/it next speaks. 13:31:39 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 13:33:44 lpolzer: hmm, it's not quite working yet. I'll push my changes later today. 13:34:37 Adlai, alright 13:34:55 Adlai, would you be interested in giving ecl a try too by any chance 13:34:56 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:19 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 13:35:35 lpolzer: sure, although I'm more familiar with CCL and I'd like to get that working first. 13:36:24 yes, that should be finished first 13:36:41 colin_ [n=colin@118-169-41-25.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:54 *Adlai* heads out for a bit. back later. 13:36:57 salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:07 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:40:13 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:46 anyone knows how to decompress a deflate binary captured from the network? (compress can't do that, because there are no headers in it) 13:43:45 Undead_Lisper [n=lispzomb@pool-173-76-29-230.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:05 levy: chipz should do ok. 13:45:25 jan247 [n=jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 13:51:11 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 13:51:44 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 13:52:27 -!- silenius_ is now known as silenius 13:52:59 InvisibleTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 13:55:20 wow, there's someone in the world more of a luddite about version control systems than me 13:55:36 pemryan [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has joined #lisp 13:56:05 -!- pemryan [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:57:11 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:58:09 Krystof: :) 13:59:12 the first hit on "luddite" in my dictionary is "Luddite" (a proper noun) 13:59:39 (the wikipedia entry) 14:00:12 s/loom/VCS, right? 14:00:37 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:00:51 oh, "Since then, however, the term Luddite has been used derisively to describe anyone opposed to technological progress and technological change." 14:01:06 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:04 learned 2 new words: luddite and eponym 14:04:28 Both styles are usually acceptable (luddite/Luddite); it was originally the name of a sort of proto-trade union, but has largely lost that meaning and become genericised 14:04:41 ye, an eponym :) 14:04:52 could it be that the lambda's in sbcl's PCL cache is compiled according to the global declaimed state? i see many PCL lambda's in my backtrace with green color in SLDB 14:04:55 (similar to 'gramaphone', which was originally a trademark and a proper noun) 14:06:30 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [No route to host] 14:10:53 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 14:11:46 -!- jlf [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit ["bbiab"] 14:12:37 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:12:48 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 14:13:01 sunny36 [n=Adium@203.159.92.21] has joined #lisp 14:13:59 -!- sunny36 [n=Adium@203.159.92.21] has left #lisp 14:16:12 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:17:30 S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has joined #lisp 14:18:53 -!- smithzv [n=smithzv@c-98-245-87-230.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:20:17 -!- mm_freak [n=milch@2a01:198:2d4:0:dead:affe:dead:affe] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:22:18 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-106.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:23:59 smithzv [n=smithzv@98.245.87.230] has joined #lisp 14:25:01 jan247_ [n=jan247@222.127.12.76] has joined #lisp 14:29:58 Hello all. 14:30:18 -!- colin_ [n=colin@118-169-41-25.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:18 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06de4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:18 -!- ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-99-23-152-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:18 -!- mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:18 -!- pdo [n=pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:18 -!- s0ber [i=pie@118-160-163-6.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:19 -!- jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:19 -!- jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:19 -!- michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:19 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:19 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:19 -!- pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:19 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-238.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:19 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:30:19 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:31:11 colin_ [n=colin@118-169-41-25.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06de4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-99-23-152-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 pdo [n=pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 s0ber [i=pie@118-160-163-6.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:16 ... Did I scare everyone off? 14:31:34 nyef: Sorry. Yes. 14:31:39 Heh. 14:32:09 its possible you are quite intimidating 14:33:24 they may be all away to get their lispy problems for you to solve 14:33:37 count paranthesis an things like that 14:34:06 *parenthesis 14:34:11 Bah. Paren-counting isn't a lispy problem. 14:35:00 not sure, i'd hate to be counting them thats for sure, hhh 14:35:07 splittist [n=dmurray@85.4.220.156] has joined #lisp 14:35:09 re 14:35:13 -!- jan247_ [n=jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [] 14:35:24 So, who wants to talk lifetime analysis and stack storage allocation in SBCL? 14:35:39 i'm not hardcore enough for that, i just let the editor do it for me 14:36:00 that was for the paren-counting but it could be adapted for LA and SSA 14:36:04 hehe 14:36:25 rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has joined #lisp 14:36:41 Did anyone here attend the boston lisp meeting last week? 14:36:44 Was it interesting? 14:36:45 -!- s0ber [i=pie@118-160-163-6.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:36:57 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-163-6.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:08 does there ever be lisp conferences on this side of the pond 14:37:09 I normally let the compiler deal with lifetime analysis, but there's a known case where there's an undeclared ordering dependency within the stack frame for a certain data type and the layout is invariably wrong. 14:37:25 Guthur: Sure, there's ELS, for starters. 14:37:55 -!- rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has left #lisp 14:37:58 seems like there are more lisp conferences in Europe than the US 14:38:06 Xach: I was there. The presentation was okay, the subject of the presentation was kindof blah, the audience reaction to the presentation and the presenter reaction to the audience reaction was more interesting. 14:38:28 Levenson [n=Levenson@89.218.74.243] has joined #lisp 14:39:08 -!- jan247 [n=jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:39:15 (The audience, myself included, broke her expectations by jumping on operator precedence and not implicitly-parallel FOR loops.) 14:39:36 What were you supposed to jump on? 14:40:03 Well, she was surprised that nobody gave her a hard time on the FOR loops. 14:40:39 oh, sorry. i had bad operator precedence for "not" there, i guess. 14:40:55 Heh. See? 14:41:05 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-73-217.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:42:59 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:59 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-60.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:43:20 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:45:25 rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has joined #lisp 14:45:31 -!- rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has left #lisp 14:46:29 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-223-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:02 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:47:49 Hrm... pack.lisp doesn't get modified very often... 14:47:52 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-238.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:01 -!- ASau [n=user@host80-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 14:49:11 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:49:22 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 14:50:51 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-73-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:51 -!- Guthur [i=c13db437@gateway/web/freenode/x-ltfquvhhxgjajzzq] has quit ["Page closed"] 14:52:48 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 14:55:44 nyef: what language was she discussing? 14:55:53 fortress 14:56:28 It was on the planet.. 14:56:30 -!- dwh [n=dwh@118.209.232.128] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:56:44 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:44 The boston meeting announcement, that is. 14:57:21 -!- LiamH [n=healy@129-2-175-69.wireless.umd.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:59:15 One day I would like to make it to one or more of those meetings. So does there seem to be any interest outside of Sun to Fortress? 14:59:52 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:59:58 I see it was held at Northeastern. Next one they hold at Northwestern, I am there. 14:59:58 jeti [n=jeti@p548EFA4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:04 wgl: MIT is too far? 15:03:30 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-223-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:05:06 jasber [n=bjasper@173-26-98-219.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:46 From the chicago area, usually. 15:06:00 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCE9F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:08 Oh, I missed your northWESTERN bit. 15:07:00 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-3-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:07:10 wgl: there used to be a chicago lisp meeting 15:07:16 Heh. I actually spend a day at the library at Northwestern from time to time for research purposes. 15:07:36 -!- cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:07:43 cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has joined #lisp 15:08:21 xach: I see the www.chicagolisp.org. Looks kind of inactive. 15:08:38 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-3-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:11:39 -!- schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/freenode/x-ecrlumroxjmatkuz] has left #lisp 15:12:36 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 15:15:49 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:49 15:15:49 -!- names: ccl-logbot lemoinem herbieB sepi sepult Tril rbancroft Guest41173 sjbach arbscht turbo24prg jyujin_ dfox fgtech egn_ futuranon rotty_ tsuru` johs_ acieroid` Axioplase_ binarin` erg_ drhodes_ Sergio`_ hoeq^ tltstc anekos lharc ineiros nickcave Pepe__ legumbre cp2 disumu jasber jeti Hun kpreid faux Khisanth Davidbrcz kejsaren Levenson s0ber splittist foom pragma_ jkantz jsnell michaelw ecraven tic htk_ pdo mikezor_ ramus` serichsen colin_ smithzv 15:15:49 -!- names: Nshag S11001001 redline6561 InvisibleTomato Undead_Lisper phadthai salva jleija xinming_ ThomasI pr dlowe Makoryu bobbysmith007 yahooooo no_mind levy kami- Dawgmatix sundar Alabaman seisatsu HET2 tcr ve AntiSpamMeta scottmaccal eihrul joswig daniel_ manuel__ Alice_I_W Geralt ignas danlei ljames silenius hkBst |male_terran| @Xof guaqua ``Erik jyujin codemonk1yx Buganini peddie z0d prip scode mornfall mbishop rtoym Vonunov felipe antifuchs enn 15:15:49 -!- names: wlr sykopomp slather mdh madnificent dostoyevsky kei pbusser3 robewald l_a_m hohum Xach easyE joga wasabi bill` hobbsc billstclair krappie galdor KatrinaTheLamia thijso bakkdoor cods Orest^bnc schme Fade Soulman__ kloeri qebab Bucciarati literal _3b` jrockway ampleyfly blitz_ chii maskd rapacity DeusExPi1achu rlonstein Aisling aja kooll fnordus nasloc__ p8m ianmcorvidae housel Maddas Wizzup clog Demosthenes lisppaste specbot lichtblau authentic 15:15:49 -!- names: adeht setheus seelenquell BrianRice mathrick cddr envi^office emacs-dwim guenthr pok itze lasts srcerer PissedNumlock rey_ rstandy zeroish vcgomes Adamant Elench sellout dalkvist Ralith h3r3tic hugod dialtone Summermute envi^home mrsolo fusss slyrus_ pem rootzlevel bdowning attila_lendvai konr KingNatoG5 mrSpec trebor_dki lpolzer varjag morphling huangjs asksol udzinari djinni` @drewc ia_ matley cmm dmiles_afk mishoo xan fiveop grouzen mvilleneuve 15:15:49 -!- names: coyo beach mjonsson jikanter Tordek eno benny gz djkthx Patzy whoppix mqt p_l rullie DrForr lat ski skeptomai|away araujo minion lnostdal pkhuong mfo roygbiv wgl lukjad007 Draggor Taggnostr piso cow-orker sytse v0|d raptelan sbahra rdd blast_hardcheese spiaggia` boyscared bfein dcrawford avigesaa j0ni ryepup spacebat Adrinael Dodek Zhivago CrazyEddy Intensity froydnj matimago zbigniew nicktastic mtd luis Borbus tvaalen vsync_ joast Guest193` 15:15:49 -!- names: _3b mgr rsynnott dmelani yango kuwabara nyef 15:17:04 Hrm... In order to avoid having to modify the compiler to pack catch-blocks the way I want them, I could posibly not use the win32 exception-handling chain for unwind. But last time I tried that, I got some nasty graft-vs-host scar tissue and never quite got it working right... 15:17:14 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-73-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:17:52 -!- jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:17:52 -!- jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:17:52 -!- michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:17:52 -!- mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:17:52 -!- ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-99-23-152-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:17:52 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06de4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:17:52 -!- colin_ [n=colin@118-169-41-25.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net 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has joined #lisp 15:18:03 pdo [n=pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 15:18:03 htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 15:18:03 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:18:03 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 15:18:03 michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has joined #lisp 15:18:03 jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:03 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:03 pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has joined #lisp 15:18:03 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:22 As a minor upside, it would make uwp-establishment slightly faster, shrink the unwind-blocks by about one word, and make exception-handling slightly faster (though still likely in the noise floor). 15:18:23 koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.107.70] has joined #lisp 15:18:23 looooop [n=var@vps-1005590-1468.united-hoster.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:49 -!- ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-99-23-152-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:18:49 The downside is that the entire scheme would become more complex. 15:18:59 ramus` [n=ramus@99.23.152.70] has joined #lisp 15:19:27 I think keeping win32 exception chains is useful, but I admit to a lot of ignorance on win32 sbcl 15:20:20 Well, the issue I'm having is that there is -one- case where the order of the catch-blocks in a stack frame is constrained by the host system. 15:20:30 And the compiler doesn't know about this. 15:20:40 And I don't know how to tell the compiler about this. 15:21:03 -!- johs_ is now known as johs 15:21:26 -!- pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:21:52 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:22 But catch-blocks are on a stack, so the rule can be expressed as an ordering dependency within the SB based on overlapping lifetimes. 15:22:50 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:23:01 pragma__ [n=pragma@blackshell.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:19 -!- jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:23:19 -!- jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:23:19 -!- michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:23:19 -!- mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:23:19 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06de4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:23:19 -!- colin_ [n=colin@118-169-41-25.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:23:19 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:23:19 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [verne.freenode.net 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has joined #lisp 15:23:38 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 15:23:38 michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has joined #lisp 15:23:38 jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:38 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:38 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:04 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-3-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:24:14 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-3-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:25:08 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-73-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:25:38 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.253.49] has joined #lisp 15:26:41 (For any two catch-blocks c1 and c2 that are both live at the same time, and c1 is "born" before c2, then c1 will "die" after c2 "dies". The host environment places an ordering dependency within the SB on which of c1 and c2 must have the lower tn-offset, but I haven't bothered figuring out which yet.) 15:27:12 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:27:48 The two ways out of this problem are to either explain things to the compiler or to change the unwind procedure so that it doesn't matter. 15:28:27 The third method (which we are currently using) is to disrecommend having two unwind-protects live at the same time within the same function. 15:29:25 it seems like the world of browsers/webservers are really confused about what HTTP/1.1 deflate means 15:30:15 <_3b> levy: more like general confusion about what 'standard' means :p 15:30:31 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:31:08 _3b: "Ignorable"? 15:31:19 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 15:32:17 <_3b> nyef: sounds about right 15:32:44 -!- no_mind [n=orion@122.163.250.15] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:33:22 -!- rotty_ is now known as rotty 15:35:28 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:35:29 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 15:35:32 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:36:34 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:36:34 Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:36:41 nyef: catch blocks are in a stack SC, right? It would always be possible to fix the order up after reg alloc. 15:36:55 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:37:31 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:37:50 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.132.61] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:37:51 pkhuong: And where's the guarantee that the block with a shorter lifetime wasn't packed in the same location as something else that has a lifetime that overlaps the longer one? 15:38:26 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:38:26 That's also a band-aid fix, not a proper fix. 15:41:50 -!- Sergio`_ [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has quit [Client Quit] 15:42:00 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:43:50 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:43:50 minion: xaw 15:43:51 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``xaw''. 15:43:52 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:44:13 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 15:44:19 minion: xaw3d 15:44:19 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``xaw3d''. 15:44:36 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 15:45:35 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-223-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:14 Athas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 15:47:28 milanj [n=milan@93.86.241.8] has joined #lisp 15:52:09 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 15:52:22 levy: define-dwim-system is completely gone? 15:52:27 Athas` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 15:52:36 levy: and define-dwim-package? 15:53:08 kami-, both 15:53:16 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 15:53:54 levy: is there an example of a package which uses a database? 15:54:29 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:55:15 kami-, hu.dwim.blog or at http://dwim.hu/file/hu.dwim.blog/source/package.lisp 15:55:15 jtza8 [n=jtza8@wbs-196-2-118-88.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:55:23 levy: thanks 15:55:25 a few errors at the bottom for uninterned symbols 15:55:52 dv_ [n=dv@85.127.111.103] has joined #lisp 15:56:39 Noob question - Is there a standard function that converts a vector into a list or vice-versa? 15:56:47 clhs coerce 15:56:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_coerce.htm 15:56:58 Heh... thanks :) 15:56:59 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:57:30 Or you might be able to abuse one of the mapping functions... 15:57:53 -!- Athas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:58:26 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:58:27 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:58:49 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:58:51 jahmarley [n=kenan@88.238.198.77] has joined #lisp 15:58:56 Greetings. 15:59:09 Athas`` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 15:59:50 mulander [i=opera@ext-83-2-139-196.interq.pl] has joined #lisp 16:00:34 does anyone know an os interface that is truely different from WIMP style but still handy 16:00:48 btw, except emacs :) 16:01:33 How about a nice CLI? 16:01:34 jahmarley: Genera 16:01:56 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:02:08 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:02:24 genera screenshots seem to me like wimp style 16:02:28 is it different 16:02:28 p_l: Genera even has icons 16:02:41 splittist: haven't seen them xD 16:03:00 <_3b> is the multitouch stuff different enough for you? 16:03:11 minion: tell jahmarley about CLIM. 16:03:11 jahmarley: look at CLIM: The Common Lisp Interface Manager (CLIM) is a powerful Lisp-based programming interface that provides a layered set of portable facilities for constructing user interfaces. http://www.cliki.net/CLIM 16:03:22 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:35 There's always the telepathic user interface, though I'm not sure anyone has actually implemented one yet... 16:03:57 nyef: there's a mind-connected keyboard and mouse 16:04:00 nyef: there are some limited implementations 16:04:09 Cool. 16:04:11 <_3b> i suppose you could call the attempts at glove interfaces 'handy' if not actually useful :) 16:04:29 very funny! 16:04:30 Glove interfaces? How 8-bit NES! 16:04:31 I guess WIMP has a silent K 16:04:31 the feedback is usually visual/audio, though. not really 'fully telepathic' 16:04:37 telepathic interface should have only one command "DWIM" 16:04:52 stassats: do what i think, maybe. 16:05:04 Try What I Think. 16:05:06 i mean what i think 16:05:09 <_3b> nyef: yeah, i should try to figure out how to hook mine up to a modern computer... don't think i've had a parallel port in a while 16:05:31 What Do I Mean? 16:05:31 or the current 'Text What I Think' interface that is all the rage with the kids... 16:05:31 kooll: ...have you ever seen how our visual input works? scary stuff, kinda like modern video codecs crossed with some extra stuff 16:05:35 Next up, voice interface... 16:05:41 p_l: yes. 16:05:47 p_l: the bugs are interesting :) 16:05:57 Bugs? 16:06:17 nyef: the various thing in the way we 'see' that make optical illusions possible 16:06:31 Ah. "It's not an optical illusion, it just looks like one." 16:06:42 -!- Athas` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:07:23 Athas``` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 16:07:24 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 16:07:35 kooll: it's fun when you start noticing that you probably have a bug in visual cortex that is NOT yet identified 16:07:45 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:08 *p_l* has to finally get the checks for it done 16:08:56 Heh. My WinXP laptop has an LPT port on it. 16:09:28 nyef: new office-oriented machines have LPT ports. Vista nicely works with it, if you set ECP :) 16:10:26 hmm, i saw an MIT research link in clim page: "New Architectural Models for Visibly Controllable Computing" by Howard Shrobe and Robert Laddaga 16:10:42 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:10:44 seems interesting, has anyone take a look at it? 16:10:52 <_3b> actually, wait.. maybe it wasn't lpt, or maybe it was some odd combination of gameport with power off lpt or something? 16:10:56 *_3b* is confused now 16:10:56 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:11:20 *_3b* wonders if the powerglove is stored somewhere close enough to look at 16:11:22 _3b: it might also be a port for some weird base station 16:11:51 as for "gloves", I plan to build a combined keyer/glove thingy with accelerometers :) 16:11:53 <_3b> p_l: no, this was some hack to hook a powerglove to 1 or more standard (at the time) pc ports 16:12:09 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:12:58 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has joined #lisp 16:13:36 Athas```` [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 16:13:49 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:14:18 <_3b> heh, according to wikipedia, powerglove has a storage capacity of '1 B 80386 microprocessor' 16:14:45 -!- Athas```` [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has left #lisp 16:14:54 -!- Athas`` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:15:05 *_3b* suspects you could store a bunch of 386 in a powerglove, if you wanted to 16:15:29 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:26 Meh. You could put a gumstix in the enclosure on the back easily. 16:18:10 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:28 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:18:39 <_3b> maybe it was data through lpt, and power from game port, that sounds familiar 16:19:57 _3b: I think the other way around 16:20:43 -!- cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:20:54 cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has joined #lisp 16:21:00 you can get power from LPT more easily, and gameport had inputs for 4 analog and 4 digital lines, iirc 16:21:06 rpg [n=rpg@c-75-73-48-133.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:14 -!- Athas``` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:22:34 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483EB22.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:01 -!- ramus` [n=ramus@99.23.152.70] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:23:24 <_3b> nah, looks like it was data through lpt, some wierd 'serial over a status pin' thing or something 16:23:28 ramus` [n=ramus@99.23.131.248] has joined #lisp 16:23:45 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-3-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:23:49 *_3b* doesn't really remember how it worked, been a while since i've messed with that 16:24:22 _3b: then probably it used both ports for data... I can easily see it if it had even one analog line 16:24:44 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:24:47 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-3-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:24:48 <_3b> nope, it was just a stray wire that went to the game port 16:24:54 <_3b> not an entire connector 16:25:42 Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-69-154.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:26:13 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:27:43 <_3b> looks like it was something like http://www.xensei.com/users/ktakki/glove/pcglove.html except using gameport instead of kbd for the +5v 16:27:51 yeah, that would fit 16:28:03 <_3b> (and that's enough off topic for me for now) 16:28:57 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:29:49 What do you mean off-topic? You'd be using Lisp to deal with the data from the glove, right? ^_- 16:30:31 mm_freak [n=milch@2a01:198:2d4:0:dead:affe:dead:affe] has joined #lisp 16:30:33 <_3b> only if i had some way to hook it up :p 16:30:59 *_3b* processed wiimote data with lisp, but bluetooth is relatively easy these days 16:31:41 *_3b* is living in browserland for the moment though, no fun input devices there 16:32:04 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-9-252.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:14 *p_l* would like a tablet-supporting CLIM :3 16:32:53 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.213.210] has joined #lisp 16:33:06 -!- mm_freak [n=milch@2a01:198:2d4:0:dead:affe:dead:affe] has quit [Client Quit] 16:35:26 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:35:28 rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has joined #lisp 16:35:40 -!- rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has left #lisp 16:37:02 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:38:11 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-5-11.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:38:11 -!- KingNatoG5_ is now known as KingNatoG5 16:38:24 Anybody know anything about cl-match? 16:39:40 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 16:39:45 _icecube_ [n=icecube@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:59 -!- pdo [n=pdo@217.33.254.141] has left #lisp 16:40:25 I'm looking for an ML-style matcher for CL, but when I try to compile the test file for CL-MATCH, it fails, which leaves me with an icky feeling... 16:44:11 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-56-253.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:45:15 -!- binarin` [n=user@62.105.145.214] has left #lisp 16:46:43 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:46:54 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:48:08 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:51:05 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:06 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:47 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:52:53 -!- Reaver1 [n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:54:17 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:54:26 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-3-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [No buffer space available] 16:54:37 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:56:38 hello, somebody using gbbopen? 16:59:41 _3b: regarding input, I have seen a guy with thinkpad tablet today and once again was eaten by jealousy. Imagine CLIM with tablet support! :3 17:00:03 Looks like there's fare-matcher.... 17:00:34 rpg: talk to pkhuong 17:01:44 Seen Fare 17:02:15 Xof: Does pkhuong have such a library? 17:02:41 minion: memo for fare: Is there anything from the Fortress talk for online consumption? 17:02:41 Remembered. I'll tell fare when he/she/it next speaks. 17:02:42 he has previously produced interesting pattern-matching compilers 17:03:14 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-9-252.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:03:18 i didn't see other implementations but mcclim seemed a little too slow to me 17:03:24 Xof: thanks. 17:06:44 nha [n=prefect@85.4.174.31] has joined #lisp 17:08:51 <_3b> p_l: yeah, especially if it would run on arm, so i could use it on my n800 17:09:56 -!- Undead_Lisper [n=lispzomb@pool-173-76-29-230.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:10:22 jahmarley: Feel free to spend some time optimizing. 17:10:56 _3b: that would be awesome :) 17:11:39 p_l, _3b: ... You two just want me to get back to hacking on SBCL/ARM, don't you? 17:11:46 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-45-9.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:12:04 (tell him it can't be done...) 17:12:08 <_3b> nyef: i don't have time to use it for a while, so no pressure from me :p 17:12:18 splittist: Shh! 17:12:31 *_3b* would probably find windows threads just as useful anyway : 17:13:04 Mmm... I've discovered a hole in the synchronization model I was planning on using. 17:13:10 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:14:06 nyef: do it like amazon's werner vogels: write a thesis on how it'll be "eventually synchronized" (-: 17:14:13 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:14 *thijso* would really like to see SBCL on arm... 17:14:36 have never really looked into it, but I have an iRex reader here waiting for some hacking... 17:14:49 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:16:25 nyef: i wish i had the knowledge to even try that for now:) so i'm just contended with appreciating mcclim guys' work and hope for them to have spare time to optimize it :) 17:16:30 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:17:19 nyef: I'm letting go of my sanity 17:17:37 nyef: also, what would really make me happy would be SBCL/arm/wince :P 17:17:47 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:18:08 and yes, iRex :3 17:18:29 p_l: That's a... frightening combination. 17:18:40 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:18:50 nyef: my main portables are either Symbian or WinCE 17:18:54 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:19:33 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:39 the software that I use the most on my PDA doesn't run on linux and I haven't seen anyone developing anything in the open (there quite possibly are equivalents running on embedded linux, but it's in sealed devices) 17:20:48 milanj- [n=milan@93.86.231.183] has joined #lisp 17:21:24 and I don't feel like porting soft from native WinCE to X11 :P 17:23:06 "Just use winelib!" 17:23:20 ... somehow I am not convinced 17:23:28 Didn't expect you to be. 17:24:34 Xach: thanks for heads up about my busted links. 17:24:51 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:25:43 rpg: Your book went in the mail yesterday. 17:27:03 gigamonkey: Thanks! Looking forward to reading it. 17:28:51 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:29:11 gigamonkey: no problem. 17:29:37 Heh #lisp is a LIFO queue. 17:30:25 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.241.8] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:31:27 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-orwdmfjlueqdkxfo] has joined #lisp 17:31:40 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:31:55 Heh, I'm still bruteforcing nested backquotes code. 17:33:31 ... Oh, neat. ccl uses 30-bit fixnums on 32-bit platforms and 61-bit fixnums on 64-bit platforms, but they both have the same range (XXX through YYY, per manual 14.1.1). 17:33:54 nice achievement 17:33:58 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:34:10 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:34:10 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:34:30 Indeed. 17:34:43 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:35:37 rpg_ [n=rpg@c-75-73-48-133.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:06 <_3b> they use different base for representing the ranges on the 2 platforms :p 17:36:08 is it -1073741824 to 1073741823? 17:37:18 *_3b* isn't sure exactly what numbering system that would be in though 17:37:27 Note that said base has to be at least base 35. 17:37:27 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:37:55 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:37:56 Err... Actually, scratch that, it has to be negative. 17:38:19 <_3b> ah, negative base might do it 17:38:25 -!- mulander [i=opera@ext-83-2-139-196.interq.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:39:39 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85.127.111.103] has quit ["Verlassend"] 17:39:56 speaking of bases, does the standard limit the maximum of *print-base*? 17:40:07 36? 17:40:18 fusss: yes. 17:40:30 fusss: it is specified to be a radix, which is clearly defined in the glossary. 17:41:10 how would it look with 37? 17:41:26 using +-/, etc? 17:41:54 Xach: you're absolutely right. 17:42:58 0-9A-Z, duh 17:43:44 it could start adding accents to the letters. :) 17:44:02 <_3b> yo ucould always use a subset of mime base64 17:44:04 sadly, no base-1 17:44:04 then we can extend that to base64.. 17:44:06 presumably, it would be different for non-Latin alphabet Lisp 17:44:06 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:44:31 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:44:32 s/presumably// 17:44:47 Ahoy kanjilisp! 17:45:16 deepfire_: scawwy 17:45:38 -!- deepfire_ is now known as deepfire 17:46:49 Rovast [n=rovast@221.2.86.54] has joined #lisp 17:47:36 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:12 I wish there was a way in slime to expand read macros. 17:51:40 It'd make the ,'', learning curve less steep. 17:52:42 slime-reader-macro-expand-inplace, or somesuch 17:52:45 -!- rpg [n=rpg@c-75-73-48-133.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:52:53 -!- joswig [n=joswig@e177127052.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:53:26 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:54:05 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:54:37 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:55:39 copy pasting the form with the reader macro(s) in them to the repl and adding a ' in front of the code and evaling works 17:56:31 hmwell at least for some ofthem 17:56:32 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:56:33 of them* 17:56:44 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-090-179.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 17:56:44 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:58:22 ska` [n=user@124.157.196.253] has joined #lisp 17:58:46 -!- Rovast [n=rovast@221.2.86.54] has left #lisp 17:58:46 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:59:33 -!- egn_ [i=tux@nodes.fm] has quit ["leaving"] 17:59:35 rvirding [n=chatzill@h52n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:06 TR2N [i=email@89-180-199-247.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 18:00:34 <_3b> hmm, nvidia seems to have released opencl drivers, missed that... 18:00:38 *_3b* needs more time 18:00:54 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:01:15 -!- _icecube_ [n=icecube@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["shutdown -h now"] 18:01:49 *nyef* notes that the ccl manual doesn't appear to describe anything for watching an array of streams / file descriptors for activity. 18:02:07 hmm... something like GLPipe for CL would be a great tool coupled with OpenCL 18:02:32 spilman_ [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-219.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:02:45 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@85.4.220.156] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1"] 18:03:04 <_3b> what does GLPipe do? 18:03:29 _icecube_ [n=icecube@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:08 *_3b* 's main goal for opencl would be a *lisp with working light panel rendered in GL :p 18:04:18 _3b: it's a way to program your GPU inside Haskell, so that you can write code for GPU inside your normal code 18:04:24 Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:49 <_3b> ah, wonder how it compares to *lisp/xmlisp/other data paralell lisp things 18:05:03 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32C49A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:27 _3b: *lisp relied quite heavily on nature of the machine it was designed for, this is more like DSL 18:06:11 <_3b> from what i could tell, *lisp would translate pretty directly to cuda/opencl (assuming the Cstyle part of opencl doesn't get in the way) 18:06:22 -!- _icecube_ [n=icecube@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:06:44 _3b: you would have to be quite limited in the operations you can do, though 18:07:02 JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:04 <_3b> do you mean *lisp would be more limited than opencl? 18:07:55 _3b: I think GPU might be the limiting factor - *lisp ran afaik on machine that still had full set of standard operations... 18:08:01 Adlai: I hear you're working on a port of Paktahn to CCL. How's that coming? 18:08:20 <_3b> *lisp ran on basically the same setup as gpu... a host lisp on a general purpose computer, and a massively parallel coprocessor 18:08:33 connections machine 18:08:39 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:09:03 redline6561: there's some trouble because of the way the CCL kernel handles command-line arguments. Other than that, in seems pretty promising... the CCL paktahn image is MUCH smaller than the SBCL image. 18:09:07 <_3b> the coprocessor part has slightly different characteristics, but seemed close enough to be effective, at least after the first gen of nvidia cuda hardware 18:09:09 killerstorm2 [n=alex_miz@sputnik.donapex.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:12 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:09:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connection_Machine 18:09:32 <_3b> (first gen couldn't do logic ops on combining multiple writes, which cm and later nv hardware could) 18:09:36 it ran on one of those i think 18:09:57 Adlai: Awesome. Will it be in a public repo anytime soon? 18:10:10 Adlai: Also, what timezone are you in? 18:10:16 _3b: I thought that CM's "general purpose" part was actually built from several units working together (like KS10 cpu) + control process on LispM 18:10:46 redline6561: yes, it'll be on github. 18:11:01 <_3b> dunno, i hadn't looked at the front end part much, as far asi know it was more or less common lisp though, so should be close enough :) 18:11:08 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:11:11 I'm in GMT+2 18:11:36 Adlai: Cool. Thanks. 18:11:41 any computer you can describe as a hypercube is aweome 18:11:43 my recent conversations with graphics guys have left me underwhelmed about opencl though :) 18:11:43 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:12:09 seemingly while everyone supports the language, the performance characteristics on different hardware are completely different 18:12:15 *_3b* hasn't looked at opencl closely enough to have an opinion 18:12:27 -!- koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.107.70] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:12:32 <_3b> that sort of thing will probably get better over time 18:12:37 _3b: otoh, GPUs that I recall have NxM threading model, where N is number of independent units and M are "subthreads" that are restricted to certain set of operations (the whole group has to do certain ops together) 18:13:00 kinda like making a vector cpu out of striped CPUs with convoluted control instructions :P 18:13:39 <_3b> p_l: right, the lowest level op optimization would be different, but the language should still port... and not like a 2tflop gpu couldn't run very inefficiently and still outrun a CM :p 18:13:40 however, it might be the fault of the matieral I read on that - I don't have anything to experiment on 18:14:08 _3b: for certain operations, CM-5? could propably outrun the GPU :P 18:14:28 <_3b> true, but gpu get faster every year, and cm doesn't :) 18:14:40 right now scientific computing and video processing seem to be the only straight forward wins on gpu 18:15:04 <_3b> next gen of nvidia stuff is supposed to be approaching 1tflop in double precision from last thing i read 18:15:13 -!- JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 18:15:14 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:15:26 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:15:27 yes thats true 3b :) nvidia is the party that has no cpu sales to worry about. :) 18:15:32 <_3b> or the current new amd stuff doing 2.5+ in single precision 18:16:03 yes if matrix multiplication is your thing, these things are a godsend :) 18:16:07 Dawgmatix: Right now, the most powerful tool on scientific computing is FPGA, afaik. GPGPU are good vector coprocessors when you get the ones with correct fp arithmethic (the "gaming" models don't do calculations well enough) 18:16:17 <_3b> and that's with only one card... get one of those big boxes of teslas and you start talking real flops :) 18:16:50 _3b: AMD is planning to bundle a FireStream variant and K8/K10 on a single die 18:16:59 theres a new mobo out from supermicro that lets you run 7 teslas and 2 quad cores :) 18:17:14 p_l thats still about a year and a half away :) 18:17:22 -!- rpg_ [n=rpg@c-75-73-48-133.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:17:36 <_3b> oh yeah, no more 4gb limit on next gen nvidia stuff too :p 18:17:41 theres also larrabee from intel that should be out in the same time frame 18:17:54 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-45-9.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Success] 18:18:16 though with intel i always fear that larrabee will be limited to prevent cannibalisation of xeon sales 18:18:36 <_3b> anyone know what channels know about prerelease browser stuff? 18:18:56 Dawgmatix: good thing that there's already AMD hw to put 64-node mixed CPU/FPGA/GPU cluster 18:18:59 :P 18:19:09 swathanthran [n=user@117.204.89.254] has joined #lisp 18:19:09 *_3b* wants to know how to use CanvasFloatArrays better 18:19:10 (and yes, iirc it formed a hypercube) 18:19:17 http://blogs.azulsystems.com/cliff/2008/11/a-brief-conversation-with-david-moon.html 18:19:17 3b if you want to talk firefox then mozilla has their own irc server 18:19:32 <_3b> ah, guess i'll go look for that then, thanks 18:19:46 and opera has one too :) 18:20:01 <_3b> does opera support webgl? 18:20:05 communicating with ie devs is seemingly impossible though 18:20:25 3b I havent heard of webgl support from opera. only webkit and nightly firefox 18:20:34 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:20:54 Dawgmatix: too much redtape, I fear :P 18:21:57 :) 18:22:34 lukego: herep 18:23:02 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:23:44 Dawgmatix: I once heard that "IE6 compatible by default" was enforced rather strongly from outside IE devs, for example 18:26:11 yes p_l, given microsofts place in the world, its completely understandable 18:26:11 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:26:34 banks and large companies hate rewriting applications and they usually buy licenses by the hundreds of thousands ... 18:28:21 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:28:32 *nyef* ponders the limits and the (implementation wise) advantages of the limits of ccl's process-interrupt. 18:28:42 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:32:48 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:03 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-110-225-173.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:34 -!- ASau 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[n=plutonas@port-92-206-101-31.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:22 -!- spilman_ [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-219.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 18:46:34 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-219.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:47:38 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:48:09 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:48:14 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 18:48:16 sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:42 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.213.210] has joined #lisp 18:51:16 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@89.218.74.243] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:51:34 danlei [n=user@pD9E2C92A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:58 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:52:06 <_3b> yay for code reuse... don't have to implement the functionality, just have to warp my code to match how someone else implemented it :/ 18:52:12 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:55:31 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:55:31 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:55:48 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:56:21 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:46 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:57:14 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.19.207] has joined #lisp 18:57:16 Hrm... The description of methods for working with HMMs that I have handy include instructions for re-estimating the probablity measures but not for introducing either new observation symbols or new states. 18:57:25 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:57:47 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:58:30 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:58:37 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:55 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 18:59:55 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:00:21 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:01:45 nyef: true, model structure is usually assumed fixed 19:02:48 there are mildly obvious kludges to introduce either new symbols or new states: but what's the exact situation? 19:03:04 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 19:03:06 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:05:17 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2C92A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:05:20 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:05:20 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 19:05:32 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:39 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:06:01 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:06:57 Dawgmati` [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:17 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-92-18.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:09:31 *Krystof* is mildly boggling at sbcl-devel talk about 32GB heaps and entries in kernel bugzilla 19:09:50 makes a change from the usual level of user questions 19:09:55 KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-0-113.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:19 32GB heaps are cheaper than ever. 19:11:50 I don't doubt that 19:13:16 16GB under my desk, even! 19:13:26 *Xach* was struck by the OOM killer last night and could use some more GBs :( 19:15:02 I only have 12 GB under my desk. :( There's another 4 over it and 8 next to it, but those can't be combined into the same address space. :P 19:15:42 foom: well... With the right library ;) 19:15:46 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 19:15:57 ak70 [n=ak70@195.158.93.230] has joined #lisp 19:16:44 also, all this external-format code is riddled with bugs and scarily untested 19:16:44 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:16:52 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-196.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:16:53 and I don't just mean the code that I'm writing 19:17:07 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:17:36 *sykopomp* is still running on 2GB and is quite content. 19:18:06 *stassats* has 512MB on the desk 19:18:32 numeromancer [n=tschaeff@dramail.com] has joined #lisp 19:19:13 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [Client Quit] 19:20:02 danlei [n=user@pD9E2C92A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:06 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-56-253.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:21:06 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:21:45 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:21:52 oek [n=oek@nat/ibm/x-glavjpdnyolxedah] has joined #lisp 19:23:20 -!- Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-69-154.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:23:45 -!- ska` [n=user@124.157.196.253] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:25:09 -!- silenius [n=jl@g225077056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:25:10 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:25:26 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:26:44 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 19:27:29 *p_l* has only 2GB and has to manually monitor and GC it 19:27:39 well, 4G of total virtual space :P 19:28:02 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:28:18 firefox is definitely memory hungry 19:28:45 as of tomorrow, Opera will be less memory hungry. yay! 19:28:50 well, for me at least. :-) 19:29:02 what would be tomorrow? 19:29:15 -!- killerstorm2 [n=alex_miz@sputnik.donapex.net] has left #lisp 19:29:23 neh, just a patch that made it for tomorrow's (internal) build. 19:29:46 -!- roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:30:34 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:30:55 -!- drhodes_ is now known as drhodes 19:31:10 tic: I use a specially crafted FF install. What memory usage my friend has with <20 tabs, I have with >60 19:31:13 :) 19:31:37 p_l: how specially crafted ? 19:31:42 p_l, I have about the same number of tabs, too. becomes a problem after a while, but, hopefully not anymore. 19:31:46 ... though it has annoying tendency to enter infinite loops in one of the threads 19:32:17 fe[nl]ix: 3.1b4 + pgo and quite a lot of addons (that unfortunately contribute to memory usage, but I can't live without most of them) 19:32:20 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@pD9E6F2F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 19:32:29 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:45 p_l: what's "pgo" ? 19:32:50 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:32:52 ... Hunh. Speaking of external-formats... Did the 64-bit latin-9 bug ever get fixed? 19:33:21 fe[nl]ix: "Profile Guided Optimization" - basically it was first built with profiling, ran a set of tests, then that profiling information was used to recompile it 19:33:47 also, it has tracemonkey enabled 19:34:03 my memory usage dropped at least twice from 3.0 19:34:04 -!- attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:34:07 ooh 19:34:16 p_l, according to your own usage patterns? 19:34:34 tic: yes 19:34:53 nifty. 19:35:01 tic: simple benchmark - I no longer have to restart firefox every few hours to stop it from triggering OOM killer 19:35:12 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:35:42 I got really angry when it wiped out my work VM while I worked on a project :/ 19:36:15 ouch. 19:37:02 nyef: not sure. Remind me of the test case please 19:37:04 tic: yeah. 1.6G resident set on a machine with 1.5G physical memory 19:37:18 I really do have all this code almost in working memory now 19:37:50 minion: bug 316323? 19:37:50 you speak nonsense 19:37:57 Krystof: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/316323 19:38:22 Includes analysis of why it breaks and why it works on non-x86-64 platforms. 19:39:03 Although the why behind the why escaped me at the time. 19:39:28 insufficiently-initialized type system at that point in cold-init 19:39:51 -!- |male_terran| is now known as male_terran 19:39:56 or at that point in the build 19:39:57 *Krystof* checks 19:40:00 Yes, but... The cold-init function for types is run prior to toplevels being run. 19:40:57 hey, look, I'm getting a type error when trying to inspect SB-IMPL::OUTPUT-CHAR-LATIN-9-FULL-BUFFERED 19:41:07 Oh, joy. 19:41:16 the value ("..." . #) is not of type SATISFIES SB-KERNEL:CLOSUREP) 19:41:50 Well, there's still the test case for the overall functionality... 19:43:15 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-31-106.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:43:22 -!- scottmaccal [n=scott@169.244.94.54] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:43:25 yes 19:43:34 and there's an obvious bug in %closure-values 19:43:51 chitech [n=khuongdp@0x573a1f4b.svgnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:44:33 demoss 20-Jun-09 19:44:33 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:44:48 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:44:51 roygbiv [n=none@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 19:45:09 fourier [n=user@79.120.46.158] has joined #lisp 19:47:56 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-99-33-92-164.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:47:56 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:48:24 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-24-5-85-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:25 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:50:03 nyef: I suspect that froydnj's refactor the other day has had the side-effect of closing that bug 19:51:00 Side-effect in that it fixed array initializers at cold-init time, or side-effect in that it changed the array to always use a boxed format? 19:52:35 side-effect in that the latin9 code got reworked 19:52:37 I think 19:52:59 cliini once wrote eyewateringly clever code to make latin9 byte lookups excessively efficient 19:53:00 Ah. 19:53:04 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.86.231.183] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:53:06 I think froydnj zapped that 19:54:47 there are now no uses of (unsigned-byte 21) in the sbcl source as far as a simple grep knows 19:54:47 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:55:02 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:55:34 While I'm thinking about it, is the official SBCL source repository still the sfnet CVS? 19:56:55 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 19:57:01 yes 19:57:02 http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl.git?a=commitdiff;h=f2db6743b1fadeea9e72cb583d857851c87efcd4#patch10 19:57:11 look for latin-9-table 19:57:26 we can put that bit back :) 19:57:30 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:06 I confess, I can't see why that would be miscompiled 19:58:35 froydnj: I'd like define-unibyte-mapper to be made smarter 19:58:36 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:58:36 It occurred to me at one point that the issue could be patched over by a transform on make-array to bump a specified array type to its upgraded form. 19:59:03 for example, I wrote a define-unibyte-permutation-mapper for ebcdic, but really define-unibyte-mapper should be able to figure that out for itself 19:59:07 But that wouln't help if it were passed in as a variable. 19:59:14 Does anyone know the package for the fast sparse-matrix operations(maybe ffi around boost::matrix)? 20:00:01 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 20:00:09 similarly, it ought to be possible to write clever tables for latin9 automatically 20:00:14 modulo 64-bit miscompilation 20:00:37 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:08 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:01:33 It's not a miscompilation, really. It'd -work- if the runtime didn't upgrade all arrays that needed upgrading to T instead of the correct upgraded type. 20:01:57 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:03:02 well, it is a miscompilation if that actually happens 20:03:22 however, 20:03:25 * (type-of (sb-kernel:%closure-index-ref *c* 2)) 20:03:25 (SIMPLE-ARRAY (UNSIGNED-BYTE 31) (16)) 20:03:36 as of sbcl 1.0.31.26 20:03:43 lispm [n=joswig@e177127052.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:03:47 so it must have been fixed at some time previous to that 20:04:29 before 1.0.29.54, in fact 20:04:46 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 20:04:58 or if we're really unlucky we'll now discover that this is some host cross-compilation leakage 20:05:50 That'd be interesting, considering the failure mode that I saw. 20:05:50 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:05:53 I seem to remember pkhuong telling me that my work on deterministic cross-compilation fasls was not yet done 20:06:02 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@95.95.190.41] has joined #lisp 20:06:15 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:06:37 ... That had implications beyond debugging cold-core relocations, right? 20:06:53 yes, there was lotso stuff 20:08:02 commits in the late 1.0.27.x era 20:08:23 Krystof: really? 20:09:04 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:09:05 I think so. At least you might have spotted that I only did it for one platform 20:09:29 and I thought you might have said that you'd seen something on an x86->x86-64 build, or maybe that was someone else, or my subconscious pre-empting everyone 20:09:50 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:11:12 ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-16-186.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:12:24 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:13:22 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 20:15:58 How important is the ability for SBCL to interrupt-thread a thread running alien code? 20:15:58 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:16:19 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 20:16:51 Krystof: You fixed the x86->x86-64 leak I saw last month. 20:17:55 How about fixing cross-float-infinity? 20:18:07 when I have infinite free time 20:18:28 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:18:39 nyef: or handling rounding modes correctly... 20:18:52 or even the mixed 64/80-bit x86 stuff 20:18:55 Mmm... 20:19:20 Hey, if we can have that last, we might even be able to get the debugger to access the fp-reg-tns on x86oids. 20:19:37 (And wouldn't that be nice?) 20:20:36 not nice enough for me to stay awake 20:20:46 nyef: You've worked on some cool side-projects (bare-metal SBCL, ARM SBCL). How is the ARM port coming these days? 20:21:05 *redline6561* is trying so hard not to be a pest :) 20:21:12 Okay, how about discussing moving sb-bsd-sockets into the main core instead of having it as a contrib? 20:21:24 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:21:30 redline6561: It's not, but I'm considering hacking on it again for a bit. 20:22:09 nyef: Excellent. I really hope that when I get a fancy ARM phone next year I'll be able to do some lisping on it. 20:22:12 *redline6561* schemes 20:22:56 redline6561: Feel free to promote the idea of paying to have the port happen faster. 20:23:40 nyef: I'll do that. Maybe there will be a reddit poll this weekend...but for now I've got to study for a midterm tomorrow. :( 20:24:42 Good luck on your midterm, then. 20:24:55 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:25:12 *nyef* half expects to see more than one person wanting threaded arm wince sbcl. 20:25:23 nyef, Thanks. 20:25:54 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:27:14 -!- jahmarley [n=kenan@88.238.198.77] has left #lisp 20:28:51 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 20:30:51 -!- Dawgmati` [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:31:35 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:32:44 -!- fourier [n=user@79.120.46.158] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:34:16 francogrex [n=user@91.179.241.210] has joined #lisp 20:34:17 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:34:40 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:35:00 nyef: I think I'm not the only one with a WinMobile pda 20:36:45 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:37:20 peddie_ [n=peddie@98.210.241.101] has joined #lisp 20:37:29 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@122-57-22-254.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:37:47 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 20:38:07 BrianRice` [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:19 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:39:12 I have both win and linux; usually sbcl doesn't read properly win32 csv files; just today to my bif surprise it read them perfect! It's the same damned version nothing changed it's all all of a sudeen it spontaneously gained super powers! 20:39:16 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:39:50 were csv files changed? 20:39:59 -!- chitech [n=khuongdp@0x573a1f4b.svgnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:00 stassats: no, I mean i have written them using win32 excel 20:41:36 hmm, drakma seems to be faster on ccl than on sbcl 20:42:19 what's drakma? 20:42:25 minion: drakma 20:42:26 drakma: Drakma is a fully-featured Common Lisp web client library that knows how to handle HTTP/1.1 chunking, persistent connections, re-usable sockets, SSL, continuable uploads, cookies, and other things. http://www.cliki.net/drakma 20:42:28 minion: drakma for francogrex 20:42:43 *stassats* goes profiling 20:44:08 -!- oek [n=oek@nat/ibm/x-glavjpdnyolxedah] has left #lisp 20:44:34 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:45:21 ok; Ah, I think i know what happened. the csv files were written using my Work laptop. But that is a win32 as well. however when I write them using my desktop then the problem with sbcl is back! 20:45:40 weird 20:45:57 different excel settings? 20:48:11 how does one check if a file is already open for writing by another process? 20:48:12 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:48:22 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:48:54 levy: guess and check? 20:49:02 stassats: I don't know. very possibly now that you mention it. at work i have the newest excel; maybe they tried to make it more compatible with unix 20:50:26 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 20:50:27 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.213.210] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:51:35 levy: there's no sure way 20:51:39 -!- lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-240-220.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:51:40 levy: locks, normally 20:52:02 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:52:02 ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.128] has joined #lisp 20:52:06 separate lock files are most portable 20:52:20 francogrex: Try running a line-ending conversion on them before loading them into SBCL? 20:52:22 there must be something 20:52:53 if there is, it isn't portable 20:53:22 -!- peddie [n=peddie@98.210.241.101] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:53:54 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-92-18.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:54:42 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:54:43 frontiers [n=frontier@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:40 -!- InvisibleTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 20:55:58 (open "/tmp/foo" :if-exists nil :direction :output) 20:56:18 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-72-219.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:56:22 returns nil if open, except that it creates the file if it's not there 20:57:03 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 20:57:22 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:57:43 (close stream :abort t) reverts the effect of open in that case 20:57:48 what's wrong with this? 20:57:57 Is it guaranteed to be atomic? 20:57:58 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:58:09 (The open operation, that is?) 20:58:25 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:58:31 levy: oh, between open or exists 20:58:32 :if-does-not-exist nil 20:58:33 ? 20:58:34 that's different case 20:59:30 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:59:42 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:59:51 nyef, I don't know 21:00:05 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:00:16 -!- jtza8 [n=jtza8@wbs-196-2-118-88.wbs.co.za] has quit ["Sleeping Zzz..."] 21:00:22 nyef: you mean transforming a win to linux type of files 21:01:08 that would work, i have tried it before 21:04:25 I don't know. i'm going nuts. now I troied gaian saving a file written on the laptop to a usb and reading on my desktop; sxpecting it to wrok but sbcl came back to the old habit of fucking up line endings 21:05:09 by the way, i'm freaking dyslexic it seems after having read what i wrote above 21:05:09 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:05:39 francogrex: unixtodos and dostounix, I think the commands are 21:06:05 ..and u2d/d2u, fromdos/todos 21:06:41 and who know how many more variations on that theme exists. 21:06:46 who knows 21:06:49 madnificent: at the linux shell prompt? 21:07:14 francogrex: also, I've noticed windows might put some strange character as the first character of a file from time to time (at least when exporting to a txt from access (shoot me please, I'm trapped)), which may spoil a bit of the fun 21:07:32 francogrex: yes 21:07:41 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:07:50 -!- morphling [n=stefan@89.13.41.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:08:06 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:08:35 francogrex: could be unix2dos too 21:08:40 madnificent: yes I can certify a same csv file written in win or unix are quite different I see that by using a hex)editor 21:09:06 madnificent: I just wish sbcl had a built-in function to do that 21:09:16 conversion 21:09:31 it's mostly just \r\n vs \n 21:09:45 francogrex: it's not that hard to do. I have a dos2unix thing somewhere here in sbcl (no idea where though) 21:09:45 shouldn't be too difficult to cook up 21:10:01 i.e. windows has \r\n and unix \n 21:10:43 guaqua: do you know if sbcl while reading in the data can do that conversion, 21:10:44 ? 21:10:51 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:11:36 no idea, i'll try to see 21:12:23 ok thanks would be good 21:14:19 'll be damned. now it works again: the behavior is really as a lisp expert would say : "undefined" 21:14:22 francogrex: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/430990 21:14:42 I knwo I have filed a bug that was ignored 21:14:43 francogrex: LoL 21:14:55 it wasn't ignored 21:15:10 yes it was, indirectly but it was 21:15:42 status set to confirmed? 21:15:42 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:16:08 they have to realize that if they want to get to the masses they must target and do well with windows distributions 21:16:21 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:16:24 you can always contribute a patch 21:17:15 guaqua: just because of that bug, i was ready to deom common lisp all together! 21:17:21 to drop 21:17:52 converting \r\n to \n in a file is not what one might call rocket science 21:18:56 guaqua: well how would one do it. I use msys on win32 21:19:04 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@32.155.197.190] has joined #lisp 21:19:41 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:19:57 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:20:09 tr -d '\r' file.in > file.out 21:20:24 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:43 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:20:58 peddie [n=peddie@98.210.241.101] has joined #lisp 21:22:50 -!- swathanthran [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit ["can't stand any more without getting some sleep!"] 21:25:10 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:33 S11001001: yes I know but I meant how would one do it using just sbcl? 21:25:38 Hrm... 5/11 items on my sbcl projects list are win32-related... 21:25:44 francogrex: Use flexi-streams? 21:25:48 I am afariad I'm not that expert 21:26:10 nyef u're an sbcl hacker? 21:26:33 nyef: maybe one of them iss my bug report 21:26:44 ThomasIl [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 21:26:52 slip it up to the top of the stack? wink wink 21:26:53 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:27:04 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:27:15 good night 21:28:23 flexi-streams. hmm; seems a good start 21:28:58 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:23 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06de4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["byeee"] 21:29:57 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177127052.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 21:30:46 -!- OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@122-57-22-254.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:32:37 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:32:37 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:32:41 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.179.241.210] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:35:11 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:35:53 -!- peddie_ [n=peddie@98.210.241.101] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:36:25 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 21:37:00 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:40:49 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:40:49 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:41:05 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:41:12 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@32.155.197.190] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:41:13 -!- nvoorhies_ is now known as nvoorhies 21:41:19 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:44:59 mnl [n=mnl@pD9E6F2F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:12 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:31 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 21:50:05 -!- Edico [n=Dezlagra@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:50:06 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:50:27 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:52:25 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:21 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCE9F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 21:55:17 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:56:21 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.213.210] has joined #lisp 21:58:42 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:01:05 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:01:20 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 22:02:09 -!- peddie [n=peddie@98.210.241.101] has quit [No route to host] 22:04:14 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-132-170-158.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:34 milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.183] has joined #lisp 22:07:33 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:08:03 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:10:25 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:10:28 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-16-186.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:11:09 -!- varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:12:46 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:13:21 hmm, first time successful multi system, dual core, asdf compile -> 2x speedup 22:13:37 with two processes 22:13:54 but only on a hand made test system 22:14:10 is there anywhere to get details no function call stack operations 22:14:55 its ok i think i found it sorry 22:18:23 Guthur: You're looking for calling-convention information? 22:20:06 ya 22:20:22 now moved to tail recursion 22:20:25 hehe 22:20:36 Remember that it's implementation-dependent. 22:21:17 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-5-196.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 22:21:45 i have a function i wish to be recursive but i have no need of the stack, the same parameters are going to be passed each time 22:22:39 Then you "just" have to make sure that the recursive call is in the tail position, and your optimization settings aren't going to trip you up. 22:22:53 s/and your/and that your/ 22:22:53 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:23:22 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:23:57 it was 22:24:11 2 secs i'll paste 22:24:37 xristos [n=x@research.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 22:25:20 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 22:25:47 bah, any sbcl specific way to check if a file is being written by another process? 22:25:54 Guthur pasted "Stackless recursion" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88311 22:26:49 func will throw if it wants to be recursive 22:27:19 so unwinding the stack back and then allowing prompt-for to call itself 22:27:49 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 22:28:02 i thought it was stackless but then realised the parameters of prompt-for are probably getting pushed on to the stack each time 22:28:22 levy: read $KERNSRC/Documentation/filesystems/mandatory-locking.txt 22:30:14 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 22:30:39 fe[nl]ix, is that possible at all? 22:31:02 levy: yes. read the manpage of flock(2) for the shorter version 22:32:47 fe[nl]ix, what I'm playing with is this: 22:33:11 asdf produces a flat list of steps to do for a call to operate 22:33:39 instead of simply looping through of those and waiting for each to be done 22:34:17 I do look at a step and do it only if all its dependencies are done and this step is not locked by somebody else 22:34:25 otherwise go to the next step 22:34:30 do this until all steps are eliminated 22:34:38 -!- Summermute [n=scott@68.34.67.216] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:34:50 this way you can start multiple sbcl processes in parallel to compile and load a system 22:35:05 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 22:35:25 levy: what flock() does is advisory(cooperative) locking 22:35:36 as long as you're using it in your application it's fine 22:35:50 each process will eventually build its own correct image in memory (which is somewhat wasting memory, but I don't care about now) 22:35:52 but it won't stop other processes from interfering 22:37:12 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 22:37:17 -!- nha [n=prefect@85.4.174.31] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:37:50 the current problem is that sbcl opens the fasl file for writing during compilation 22:37:55 benny` [n=benny@i577A01E5.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:38:12 and other processes look at the date and think its done 22:38:25 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@32.152.46.7] has joined #lisp 22:38:49 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A01AF.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:39:23 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:39:38 -!- jeti [n=jeti@p548EFA4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 22:39:42 impulse32 [n=impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176313886.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:39:53 ropert [n=user@CPE00222d12ee72-CM00222d12ee6e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:01 levy: patch sbcl to lock and unlock the fasl 22:40:11 redblue [i=star@ppp037.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:40:35 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:36 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:41:00 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:41:02 ugh no. write it to a temporary file! 22:41:22 yeah, I was thinking of a temp file too 22:41:31 and rename it at the end 22:41:33 yes 22:41:57 that code was just an awkward way to iterate i think 22:42:58 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:43:43 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:44:10 could have made use of throw returning value to pass data to next recursion though. can do crazy stuff with this lisp malarky hehe 22:44:28 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:44:35 not sure on the usefulness but, its quite a journey 22:46:41 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:48:15 -!- benny` is now known as benny 22:49:36 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:49:41 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:50:03 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:19 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:51:43 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:51:57 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:52:12 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:53:09 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:58:17 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.183] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:01:25 in sbcl are the variables introduced by let thread specific ? 23:02:58 -!- levy [n=levy@89.223.201.43] has quit ["..."] 23:02:58 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@32.152.46.7] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:03:13 jahmarley [n=kenan@88.238.198.77] has joined #lisp 23:03:35 Dawgmatix: introduced? yes. dynamic bindings are also thread-local. 23:04:32 thanks :) 23:04:44 -!- ThomasIl [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 23:05:09 -!- pragma__ is now known as pragma_ 23:06:50 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:09:04 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:09:24 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:10:13 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 23:14:57 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 23:16:49 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:16:58 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@32.152.46.7] has joined #lisp 23:17:29 mnl_ [n=mnl@pD9E6FCF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:34 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@32.152.46.7] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:17:40 manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6FCF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:52 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:17:56 emmy [n=em@cpe-98-14-154-71.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:17:56 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:06 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:23:28 phf [n=user@c-76-124-103-85.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:37 *Xach* installs snow leopard on shanna's computer 23:25:23 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:25:28 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-134-50.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:25:42 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.141.180] has quit [Success] 23:27:02 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-132-170-158.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 23:27:03 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:27:30 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:27:52 did cl-http license change recently? 23:29:52 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.60.86] has joined #lisp 23:30:03 erk. 23:30:09 *Xach* misdirects 23:30:13 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 23:34:32 -!- mnl [n=mnl@pD9E6F2F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:37:14 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 23:38:56 alec [n=alec@pool-96-237-13-64.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:00 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:40:06 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:42:18 -!- Guest41173 [i=irssi_lo@78.114.177.235] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:42:46 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 23:43:35 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:44:01 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.251.171] has joined #lisp 23:48:35 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:49:20 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:52:11 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.213.210] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 23:53:17 erk? 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