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[n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:46 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-4ae470d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:46:17 seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:47 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@118.43.201.120] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:49:07 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:49:23 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 02:53:06 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:53:59 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 02:55:07 -!- skeptomai|away [n=cb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Getting off stoned server - dircproxy 1.2.0"] 02:55:29 skeptomai|away [n=ncb@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:38 emacs-dwim [n=user@cpe-74-71-11-230.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:57:15 any way to put a documentation string on a macro's function? 02:58:56 emacs-dwim: same way that you would for a normal function 02:58:56 (defmacro when (condition &body body) "Like IF with a PROGN" ...) 03:00:39 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:01:26 Tordek_ [n=tordek@186.124.141.80] has joined #lisp 03:05:13 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:07:42 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:55 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 03:08:42 aldai: great! 03:13:03 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:13:08 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.77.68.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:15:30 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:17:11 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:17:38 -!- myst [n=x@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-14-64.telecom.by] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:18:34 quodlibetor [n=bwmaiste@ool-4570c6ff.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:42 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@186.124.160.163] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:23:04 -!- quodlibetor [n=bwmaiste@ool-4570c6ff.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["foo"] 03:28:58 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:28:59 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:29:09 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:34:19 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:34:34 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:34:39 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:34:55 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 03:36:11 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:40:19 dmead [n=dan@pool-98-114-10-152.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:24 hey channel 03:40:36 i'm trying to load a .sse2f from cmucl in sbcl 03:40:42 i get this error 03:40:43 The variable FASL is unbound. 03:40:50 anyone know if i can fix this? 03:40:56 or do i have to use cmucl 03:41:02 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-151-200-238-90.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:43:09 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:43:10 jahmarley [n=kenan@78.181.34.222] has joined #lisp 03:45:28 dmead: If i understand what you are trying to do correctly, it's like asking "I can't open unzip.exe on my Mac" ;) 03:45:45 c|mell [n=cmell@122.202.171.187] has joined #lisp 03:45:57 hehe 03:46:02 i thought they would be compatible :P 03:48:43 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2D986.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:50:59 simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:52:35 ska [n=user@203.146.146.171] has joined #lisp 03:54:51 dmead: Why would you want to do that anyway? 03:59:03 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:59:03 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:59:15 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:59:23 gonzojive [n=red@171.66.105.174] has joined #lisp 04:00:39 -!- ska [n=user@203.146.146.171] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:01:21 eddie_ [n=misterbu@69.248.161.193] has joined #lisp 04:01:27 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 105 (No buffer space available)] 04:04:25 -!- dmead [n=dan@pool-98-114-10-152.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:09:01 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.116.22.38] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:09:09 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.177.235] has joined #lisp 04:15:33 -!- seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:18:24 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:20:52 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:21:54 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp212.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:32:08 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-14-143.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:32:57 Good morning! 04:33:57 morning :) 04:34:03 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-147.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 04:36:17 Sgeo [n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:35 *Sgeo* wonders if this channel saw the latest xkcd 04:37:44 Welcome to Freenode.... WHERE THE CHANNELS HAVE EYES 04:40:29 -!- jahmarley [n=kenan@78.181.34.222] has left #lisp 04:41:12 what URL do i request to automate lisppaste from emacs? (i don't want to make a mess testing it.) 04:41:12 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:42:11 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:44:01 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:46:01 emacs-dwim: there's a lisppaste-mode to do it... 04:55:26 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 04:56:43 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 04:59:43 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:00:57 OK, so what is a title pane supposed to do? 05:01:03 clim title-pane 05:01:03 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/29-4.html#_1683 05:01:34 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:04:21 male_terran [n=KVIrc@ip98-162-161-191.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:26 -!- ski [n=slj@c-c110e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:08:32 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:09:54 -!- guenthr_ [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:09:56 guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 05:10:15 yoonkn [n=yoonkn@112.169.40.70] has joined #lisp 05:10:35 -!- jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:11:15 jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:12:45 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-215-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:16:18 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 05:18:03 Moe111 [n=Moe111@modemcable067.226-21-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:18:26 what's the best way for me to use the tmpl_include directive in HTML-Template without using an absolute path? 05:18:48 e.g. how do I establish to what the paths are relative? 05:19:25 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 05:22:14 anyone managed to instal weblocks on debian linux ? 05:22:29 -!- eddie_ [n=misterbu@69.248.161.193] has quit [Client Quit] 05:22:33 -!- Moe111 [n=Moe111@modemcable067.226-21-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 05:24:35 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:25:43 hello 05:26:08 drewc: i mean my local darcs repo of rfc2388-binary... i have the commit bit on that repo, should i push that patch? i guess it's better to keep it in the repo than on mailing lists... 05:26:31 drewc: and if it's broken, then we should record tests that point out the brokenness and fix it 05:30:47 bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:07 bohanlon_ [n=bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:34 -!- bohanlon_ [n=bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:33:12 -!- mjonsson [n=mjonsson@cpe-74-68-112-229.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:41:39 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 05:43:10 splittist [n=dmurray@85.4.220.156] has joined #lisp 05:43:14 morning 05:44:13 hello splittist 05:44:16 hello mrSpec 05:44:35 *yawn* morning everyone 05:45:07 hey tic! 05:46:01 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:50:30 beachie! 05:50:35 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-6-212.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:50:43 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has joined #lisp 05:51:12 beach, I keep forget to ask you. Do you have the source for your language-learning app up somewhere? I'd very much would like to read it! 05:54:10 mjonsson [n=mjonsson@cpe-74-68-112-229.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:54:19 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-60-169.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:54:25 -!- Sgeo [n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:55:47 hey, mjonsson. haven't seen you around. new here? 05:56:49 I haven't been on IRC for a long time 05:57:14 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:58:11 I see. Welcome back! You live in the US? (I'm presuming you're Swedish) 05:58:31 swedish living in US yes 05:59:03 Sorry for the snooping, just got so excited. :-) Working on anything fun? 06:00:05 it varies, sometimes fun sometimes not so fun 06:00:24 are you swedish? 06:00:25 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@71-34-77-216.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:01:44 Yup. 06:04:08 if by fun you mean lisp-related, then no... i use java mostly at work 06:04:27 Mhm. I do mostly C++ and shell scripting. 06:06:17 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-163-127.net.novis.pt] has left #lisp 06:07:05 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 06:07:52 ski [n=slj@c-c110e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:10:16 i've been sneaking in some haskell in places but nothing substantial 06:10:21 Cool. 06:10:35 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229145189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 06:11:01 I tried sneaking in Lisp, but it didn't get very far, alas. Probably because it was a project we didn't really need. (phonebook synch thingy) 06:12:31 tic: That could be arranged. Hold on... 06:12:31 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@122.202.171.187] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:13:19 angerman [n=angerman@e154.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 06:13:34 -!- angerman [n=angerman@e154.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:18:20 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 06:18:30 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:12 tic: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/Vietnamese/ 06:20:33 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 06:22:00 what does that do? 06:23:03 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 06:23:07 -!- gonzojive [n=red@171.66.105.174] has quit [] 06:24:10 ASau [n=user@77.246.231.179] has joined #lisp 06:25:22 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:25:30 -!- xan-afk [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:25:43 mjonsson: It's an application to help me learn Vietnamese. 06:25:56 freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 06:26:29 cool, I hope it helps 06:26:33 mjonsson: Screenshot here: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/app.png 06:27:17 mjonsson: It does for me. I am lousy when it comes to remembering vocabulary. With this application, I can look up a word once, and then have it looked up automatically after that. 06:27:52 mjonsson: It is just one of those natural reactions of a CS person: whenever you are doing something repetitive, try automating it. 06:28:02 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 06:28:21 mjonsson: That application was also interesting because it is only 275 lines of code, and the initial version took only 2h to write. 06:28:28 it is possible to force a expression not to evaluate to anything? I want to use when/awhen to add keyword parameters to function calls when something is not nil, but when something IS nil it when/awhen evaluates to NIL and screws up function call 06:28:49 s/it/ 06:29:21 mikezor [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:29:32 beach: yeah, for the level of presentation of the screen the gui code is very succinct 06:29:42 freiksenet: I am afraid I don't understand. Could you give an example? 06:29:51 (value default supplied-p) freiksenet ? 06:30:19 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:30:21 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 06:30:32 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:30:46 (+ 5 6 (awhen number it)) for example 06:30:48 pok [i=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 06:30:52 if number is nill function will fail 06:31:04 freiksenet: nope, it has to return something. 06:31:35 i'm rusty but maybe (or number (return nil)) 06:31:39 Adlai: Not quite, but when it doesn't, NIL is used instead. 06:32:16 (let ((number 7)) (multiple-value-call #'+ 5 6 (if number (values number) (values)))) ;; perhaps 06:32:32 beach: true 06:32:54 lnostdal: it is kinda bulky :( 06:33:32 indeed .. i think sbcl is clever wrt. compilation of those though 06:33:48 freiksenet: it's not that bulky if you have a when-like macro that returns (values) instead of nil 06:34:11 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:34:19 I think I understand now. I'd just do (or number 0) in this case 06:34:44 hmm. what about keyword arguments? I wanted to be able to do (fn (awhen smth (:keyword it)) is it possible? 06:34:54 ahofc. .. well, assuming he's using + .. x) 06:35:16 freiksenet: use mvcall 06:35:56 Adlai: like lnostadl showed? 06:36:07 (multiple-value-call 'find x y (if z (values :test z) (values))) 06:37:36 free_thinker [n=willijar@134.151.144.246] has joined #lisp 06:37:52 oh, awesome. thanks a lot 06:42:08 freiksenet pasted "my function" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88198 06:42:18 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:42:40 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-206-17-72.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:42:44 assoc-value here is a helper function which cdr the assoc result. So you see I have tons of repeating "assoc-s" here. Is it possible to make a macro to get rid of those? 06:42:45 why not apply? 06:43:22 xan-afk [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:43:53 attila_lendvai: Adlai advised mvc, so I can use this if %) 06:44:46 freiksenet: you could use apply too, although I'm not sure the code would be much cleaner 06:45:20 well, i've never seen m-v-c used for this, while i've seen apply many times 06:46:18 hmm, now that I actually look at your example, freiksenet, I think apply would be better 06:46:26 *attila_lendvai* is uncertain about the speed characteristics of the two without profiling 06:46:36 I will have more if's at the end, if this is important 06:46:55 of I'd say a cond. 06:47:01 s/of/or 06:47:39 actually with apply you can finish with a (when foo bar) 06:49:13 attila_lendvai: I'd be surprised if apply is ever faster than m-v-call, unless the input is a list to begin with. 06:49:33 Do I need to cons stuff into the list for apply? 06:49:42 beach, thanks! 06:49:58 and how would it work with keyword args/ 06:50:40 pkhuong: thanks, i'll keep that in mind when i'll have to use this idiom in performance critical code again 06:52:59 beach, I get a 403 on some of the files, like stuff.lisp. 06:53:03 so what is the consensus? m-v-c or apply? 06:54:01 tic: try now! 06:54:46 that's better, thanks! 06:55:34 I see you use create-foo, instead of make-foo. on the other hand, your create-foo does more than a make-foo would do. 06:55:44 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:58:04 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 105 (No buffer space available)] 06:58:32 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:59:29 Right. I sometimes use that convention. make-foo is usually just a wrapper around make-instance, and create-foo does something more complicated. 07:00:23 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:00:34 good morning 07:00:38 attila_lendvai: the best would of course be not to need that at all. 07:00:40 hello mvilleneuve 07:02:12 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:26 dandersen [n=usuario@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 07:09:15 simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 07:12:24 -!- free_thinker [n=willijar@134.151.144.246] has left #lisp 07:13:19 tic: If you have any questions about the code, just ask. 07:13:40 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 07:17:56 beach, I will! really appreciate having a smallish CLIM app to see how idiomatic(?) CLIM clients are written. 07:19:22 pkhuong: SBCL has a source-transform for APPLY(like a compiler macro), which just implements it using multiple-value-call (and values-list). There is a comment saying this above the source transform: 07:19:23 "We convert APPLY into MULTIPLE-VALUE-CALL so that the compiler only needs to understand one kind of variable-argument call. It is more efficient to convert APPLY to MV-CALL than MV-CALL to APPLY." 07:19:35 tic: This one is probably close to idiomatic I would think. 07:20:10 seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:20:10 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:20:57 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:22:09 K3NT1S_aw [n=kent@sd-16241.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 07:22:58 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 07:24:17 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 07:26:02 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:26:46 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 07:27:27 ljames: so performance with apply is at best equivalent to that with m-v-call. 07:30:28 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:34:26 morning 07:35:39 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.231.179] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:35:51 ASau [n=user@77.246.231.179] has joined #lisp 07:37:57 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:39:41 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:40:38 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 07:42:52 hello Krystof 07:45:30 anyone know if there is a semi standard definition of RANGE somewhere, other than (defun range (start end) (loop for x from start to end collecting x))? 07:45:49 there you go. ;) 07:47:22 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:48:54 fusss_ [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:49:15 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:49:29 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:49:37 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 07:55:25 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 07:55:51 http://etiquette.sourceforge.net/ looks interesting 07:56:15 predates usocket, of course 07:56:46 OT (sorry). When I deleted my Desktop subdirectory (Ubuntu), What is now displayed on the screen background is the contents of my home directory instead. How can I again make it display the contents of the Desktop subdirectory (which I created again)? 07:58:27 beach: maybe check ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs 07:59:13 joga: Thanks! That's it it seems! 08:00:41 -!- dandersen [n=usuario@metabug/dandersen] has quit ["leaving"] 08:01:57 joga: I suppose I need to log back in. I'll be right back. 08:02:00 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-79-46.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 08:03:52 trebor_dki annotated #88071 "thank you splittist (: no further questions :)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88071#2 08:04:26 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:17 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-79-46.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:11:16 <_3b> does cltl3 fix package nicknames? 08:11:38 That would be great! 08:12:17 joga: It worked! Thanks! Again, sorry for the off-topic question. 08:12:22 great 08:12:27 *_3b* seems to be unning into nickname conflicts a lot lately :( 08:13:03 serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06eb25.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:10 good morning 08:13:25 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-132-170-158.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:13:57 _3b: It should be the client package that creates the nickname so that package names can be long (and unique) without requiring the client to use long package prefixes. 08:14:20 Agreed 08:14:22 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.231.179] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:14:22 _3b: There are a couple of libraries out there that do something similar to that. 08:14:35 hello serichsen 08:14:42 <_3b> beach: right, possibly with some ability to add a middle layer for general remapping 08:14:52 ASau [n=user@77.246.231.179] has joined #lisp 08:17:15 itze [n=itze@77-22-106-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:20:29 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:22:52 K3NT1S_aw` [n=kent@sd-16241.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 08:23:27 -!- K3NT1S_aw [n=kent@sd-16241.dedibox.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:24:18 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 08:24:25 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@78-69-144-82-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:25:03 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:32:49 -!- esnk [n=user@nat/ibm/x-qqcrhonnaqohbpxv] has left #lisp 08:33:39 <_3b> anyone familiar with yason? 08:34:19 -!- p_l [i=8b850726@gateway/web/freenode/x-ec546c3dbf1f6ad9] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 08:35:38 <_3b> ah, nevermind, guessi misinterpreted the docs 08:38:12 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Success] 08:38:19 Adlai` [n=adlai@93-172-215-36.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 08:39:00 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 08:39:08 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 08:40:07 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:55 beach: do you have some examples of that (client package creating nicknames)? 08:42:04 minion: cl-package-aliases 08:42:04 cl-package-aliases: cl-package-aliases is a small Library that extends the standard CL package system with the ability to define package-local aliases (nicknames) to other packages in a transparent way. http://www.cliki.net/cl-package-aliases 08:42:25 myst [n=x@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-62-177.telecom.by] has joined #lisp 08:44:16 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6E9D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:20 tic: how does python-mode compare to slime? i am heading that territory and coming back with some souvenirs :-) 08:52:35 there are two of them in fact 08:52:58 FSF Emacs' one, and Barry Warsaw's one. Try both. 08:53:40 as for me, default FSF Emacs python-mode is totally okay, It does all I need from it. 08:53:50 *myst* never used SLIME 08:56:20 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 08:57:01 -!- myst [n=x@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-62-177.telecom.by] has quit [] 08:57:58 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:55 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:00:35 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-132-170-158.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 09:08:08 "writing 193785856 bytes from the dynamic space at 0x1000000000" .. biggest core yet :) .. (trying to setup automatic builds of latest sbcl vs. most of the clbuild stuff) 09:08:49 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:09:57 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:11:19 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 09:12:47 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:13:23 fusss, python mode? you must be confusing me. 09:13:31 fusss, I'm a Vim person! 09:13:39 tic: hah! 09:13:52 (I do write Python code on occasion..) 09:14:18 one of the Ts where was a pythoner on the side, either you tic or tcr 09:14:29 I am _sure_ it's not tcr ;-) 09:14:46 what's a Ts? 09:15:03 Oh, ts. 09:15:07 meh. too early. 09:16:10 i think i might need named readtables now .. macro characters not being pr. package stuff sure is causing a lot of trouble 09:16:36 -stuff 09:18:49 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:21:16 knobo [n=user@ti100710a080-0499.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:24:26 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-60.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:25:35 How can I implement a type specifier that takes arguments the way the array type sprcifier does. ie checks for dimensions. 09:30:21 Odin- [n=sbkhh@130.208.131.159] has joined #lisp 09:31:23 drafael [n=tapio@118.90.143.15] has joined #lisp 09:32:17 for simplicity lets say I want to make a type specifyer for numbers between 5 and 9. so I can do (typecase x ((range 5 9) (do something)) ((range 10 20) (do something else)) (character (write x))) 09:35:58 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-95-37.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:36:51 ignas [n=ignas@78.60.73.85] has joined #lisp 09:42:12 -!- itze [n=itze@77-22-106-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:42:37 manuel__ [n=manuel@pD9E6B6C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:32 does named-readtables work with slime's C-c C-c? 09:47:03 cant get weblocks to work with debian linux. Any pointers ? 09:47:37 i think that's the general idea, serichsen .. kinda like in-package is "connected" with slime 09:47:49 <_3b> no_mind: step 1. describe how it fails to work 09:48:05 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 09:48:09 <_3b> no_mind: (or wait for random guesses like 'don't use anything lisp related from debian packages') 09:48:17 _3b, it installs without any error 09:48:40 <_3b> no_mind: installs by what means? 09:49:16 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@130.208.131.159] has quit [] 09:49:27 but when I try to load the weblocks in sbcl I get an error component "weblocks" not found 09:49:39 installs using clbuild as described here http://weblocks.viridian-project.de/installation 09:49:58 <_3b> did you load sbcl through clbuild? 09:50:56 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:50:58 yes 09:51:25 tried by loading sbcl through cbuild as well as without cbuild. Same error 09:52:12 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 09:54:25 <_3b> no_mind: lisppaste what you do and the error it gives? 09:54:32 -!- DrForr [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:56:49 DrForr [n=drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:27 levy [n=levy@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:59:39 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6E9D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:00:39 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-118.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:03:08 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-82-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 10:03:42 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:04:32 udzinari [n=user@195.212.29.163] has joined #lisp 10:10:19 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 10:13:07 lnostdal: yes, I realize that, but there is a [yet to be done] note on http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/darcs/editor-hints/named-readtables/doc/named-readtables.html 10:14:14 tcr: is that note outdated? 10:14:29 danlei [n=user@pD9E2FAA9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:31 myst [n=x@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-62-177.telecom.by] has joined #lisp 10:15:15 knobo: is range really what you want? 10:19:29 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-118.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 10:20:10 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.60.73.85] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:21:19 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:26:07 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:26:14 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:28:45 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-118.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:30:22 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:05 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:31:44 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:07 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:34 i'm going to try it out now, serichsen 10:41:24 use the source! Grep for slime, check %frob-swank-readtable-alist. 10:41:24 lichtblau, memo from thijso: just wanted to mention that I've put a fork of your atdoc up on github with a number of small bugfixes that I've done on it lately... maybe you'd like to pull them into the 'real' version... see http://github.com/thijs/atdoc-fork 10:41:26 Xach: what I want is to understand the type system better, and the idea came from checking characters 10:41:49 It interacts with slime, but not yet in the way it's meant to. 10:44:19 knobo: (deftype range (low high) `(integer ,low ,high)) is one possibility 10:45:57 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 10:46:40 Xach: I made some type specifiers that (deftype alpha-char `(satisfies alpha-char-p)) and one for digit-char-p, and one for white-space. Then I thought about doing something like (typep c (alpha-char #\a #\z)) 10:47:31 knobo: i think you mean (deftype alpha-char () ...), right? 10:47:43 Xach: yes 10:47:49 the () is the lambda list 10:48:01 it can be used like a defmacro lambda list 10:48:11 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:48:17 dwh [n=dwh@118.209.232.128] has joined #lisp 10:49:15 Xach: but is the form should evaluated? 10:49:15 *Xach* learns a new thing from the glossary: unsupplied optional or keyword args default to the symbol *, not NIL 10:49:39 knobo: what form? 10:50:41 sbcl has a not-exported sb-kernel:character-set type, for just this kind of thing 10:51:06 because otherwise the only way to express character sets is with MEMBER 10:51:15 and with #x110000 characters around, that gets old 10:53:49 Xach: deftype name lambda-list _form*_ 10:55:05 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:55:16 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-101-69.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:56:23 -!- ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [] 10:56:46 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@pD9E6B6C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 10:57:23 guys, I'm trying to install Slime from CVS, and I downloaded it via clbuild and added the correct path to load-path 10:57:33 Xach: it is evaluated at compile time, so it would be difficult to do what I thought of. 10:57:33 however, Slime keeps trying to load Swank from /usr/share/common-lisp/source/slime/swank-loader.lisp 10:57:50 (instead of getting it from my $home/path/to/slime/source) 10:58:09 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 10:58:19 mishoo: try running it with clbuild, too 10:58:38 start with "./clbuild slime -q", which I think doesn't run any other initialization files 10:58:55 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-101-69.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:58:59 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:59:58 <_3b> mishoo: purge slime apt packages 11:00:14 (deftype stupid-range (x y) `(> ,x ,y)) just does not make sense 11:00:19 _3b: I did, there's no /usr/share/common-lisp/source/slime/swank-loader.lisp file, but it still tries to use it 11:00:38 <_3b> you purged it, not just uninstalled? 11:01:16 knobo: To lisp, or in general? 11:01:25 there'll still be an /etc/emacs*/*slime.el file somewhere 11:01:28 Zhivago: both. 11:01:52 knobo: Why doesn't it make sense to have a type that constrains x to be greater than y? 11:02:11 Krystof: that worked, but I'd like to understand how to fix it and perhaps be able to start emacs as I usually do 11:02:23 (deftype int-range (x y) `(integer ,x ,y)) works. 11:02:31 _3b: I think I just did apt-get remove slime cl-swank, shouldn't that be enough? 11:02:39 <_3b> mishoo: nope, you need purge 11:02:51 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-101-69.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:02:57 <_3b> mishoo: it leaves emacs config files behind that try to load files that don't exist if you just uninstall 11:03:03 I see 11:03:15 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32C42E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:16 Zhivago: It does not make sense because there is a third argument: the variable that one whants to check the type of 11:03:43 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.253.136] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:03:45 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.247.114] has joined #lisp 11:04:31 the problem is that satisfies only take one argument. 11:04:58 so how is the (integer x y) and (array x y) type specifier implemented? 11:05:13 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 11:05:28 _3b: that fixed it, thanks 11:06:44 lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-248-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:44 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 11:11:46 attila pasted "strange memory fault from SB-IMPL::OUTPUT-BYTES/UTF-8 while swank starts" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88202 11:12:02 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:12:08 eno__ [n=eno@70.137.155.161] has joined #lisp 11:22:53 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:22:58 Zhivago: herep 11:27:04 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:28:54 -!- rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:29:00 -!- PissedNumlock [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:31:51 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-60-169.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:34:15 serichsen: The readtable support in Slime at the moment is per-package, not per-file. 11:34:38 drafael1 [n=tapio@118.90.128.137] has joined #lisp 11:39:28 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:39:37 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 11:40:22 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:28 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118.90.143.15] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:42:55 levy: why does the :AROUND method on EXPORT-TO-RDMS use WITH-TRANSACTION? 11:44:09 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:44:15 PissedNumlock [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:44:57 I think I've found the cause of the weird hangs we have: We are in the middle of a transaction (let's call it transaction 1), and perec decides to call EXPORT-TO-RDBMS for some reason. Than opens a transaction 2, which ends up waiting for Postgres, because transaction 1 has locked the table. 11:44:59 <_3b> does parenscript provide access to the js LET ? 11:45:59 tcr, while messing around with this and making mistakes in the defreadtable form etc. .. perhaps one should work vs. a copy of the found read-table (looking at the expansion of defreadtable atm.) and only "commit" it at the end? .. i end up with a cleared read-table at times now, i think 11:46:04 lichtblau: we resolve that so that we export the model when the application starts. as of development... we i personally just drop the db, etc... 11:46:11 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 11:46:41 Krystof: I did not see your sb-kernel:character-set comment before now. 11:47:09 lnostdal: Just fix the mistakes, and reevaluate the defreadtable form? 11:47:14 tcr, or perhaps i'm doing something else (something dumb) here :P 11:47:24 lichtblau, because changes in computed-class cache cannot be rolled back 11:47:37 it's not the best solution but could not find anything better 11:48:19 during exporting side effects happen in the vm, so if this would be in the same transaction that could cause problems when rolled back 11:48:56 lnostdal: What kind of mistakes? 11:48:56 tcr, yeah, i'm trying to re-evaluate, but the reader seems messed up ("end of file") .. i'll see if i maybe can figure out why .. got to go for a min now .. brb. 11:49:28 Ah, I see. 11:49:35 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has joined #lisp 11:49:51 hello 11:50:08 lnostdal: That problem arises because named-readtables is not yet properly integrated into Slime. 11:50:21 hi fe[nl]ix 11:50:35 hi tcr 11:51:42 -!- Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:52:06 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 11:52:25 lnostdal: Run (named-readtables:merge-readtables-into :foo :standard) at the Slime REPL, but make sure that *package* is not a package where you've executed an IN-READTABLE in 11:53:21 okay. So do you have some sort of setup where PEREC just errors out instead of even trying to do schema changes? 11:53:26 We already do schema setup on server f startup (or manually in the REPL), so I'm not quite sure where the export-to-rdbms is coming from anyway... 11:54:31 (deftype char-range (a z) `(sb-kernel::character-set ((,(char-code a) . ,(char-code z))))) But it's not portable 11:54:48 then I could do (typep #\f `(char-range #\a #\z)) 11:55:04 Atleas i learned a little about the typesystem 11:55:28 that's true. The portable version is `(member ,@(loop for code upfrom (char-code a) to (char-code z) collect (code-char code))) 11:56:32 shrewd1 [n=arn@220-253-47-24.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:56:56 -!- shrewd1 [n=arn@220-253-47-24.VIC.netspace.net.au] has left #lisp 11:58:08 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:20 lichtblau, there's *signal-non-destructive-alter-table-commands* in cl-rdbms and there's export-model in dwim-meta-model 11:59:13 that function should be moved to perec I think 11:59:37 itze [n=itze@77-22-106-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:59:55 we basically export all classes and force to finalize them before the server starts up 12:00:27 characters are always eql, but not always eq (impl. dep), right? 12:02:33 eq would require boxing, doesn't make sense for chars. 12:03:24 K3NT1S_aw [n=kent@sd-16241.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 12:03:41 -!- K3NT1S_aw` [n=kent@sd-16241.dedibox.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:03:48 Hrm. or maybe not, nevermind. 12:05:21 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:07:25 Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:35 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:09:24 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:09:51 knobo: that is correct 12:09:58 well, the same character is eql to itself 12:10:02 different characters aren't :-) 12:12:28 internal server error on http://dwim.hu/project/hu.dwim.meta-model 12:12:48 (I know, I know, the test suite probably says all there is to know! :-)) 12:13:40 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 12:15:17 *Fare* wonders which is faster: re-computing the hashes of all the files in the build, or trying to intern a cache with all the hashes precomputed. 12:15:59 (with a little bit of luck, future filesystems will be content-addressed and provide the hash for you) 12:16:07 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 12:16:24 Fare: a cache of hashes? How would the cache be indexed? 12:16:36 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 12:16:39 Fare: write a kernel module that keeps the sha1 hash as xattr. should be pretty easy 12:16:39 by pathname 12:17:06 fe[nl]ix, sha1 is broken. Let's hope tth will survive a little bit. 12:17:18 lichtblau: are you running perec from the dwim.hu codebase? if not you want to see this instead: http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi/darcsweb.cgi?r=cl-dwim-cl-dwim;a=tree 12:17:21 sha1 is broken ? how ? 12:17:45 cryptographically broken, not programmatically broken 12:17:46 Fare: wait until there's a possible theoretical use of the 'exploit' before considering it broken ;) 12:17:48 fe[nl]ix: adversarially, it's probably possible to construct false matches. 12:17:54 lichtblau: the stuff at dwim.hu is just going through a big refactor that introduces package naming conventions, etc 12:18:04 there are attacks out there that are substantially more efficient than birthday 12:18:05 beach (or others): do you use 'dc' as an Abbrev (in lisp mode), and, if so, for DEFCLASS or DEFCONSTANT or DEFINE-CONSTANT (: ? 12:18:19 (but not noticeably fast on your laptop yet) 12:18:22 for paranoia, I should ideally hash files both before and after, and compare, I suppose. 12:18:32 Fare: bah, ABA. 12:18:51 kooll: the sha1 exploit is not theoretical -- collisions can be created on demand. 12:19:23 pkhuong: I wonder though, how likely it is to get a collision while doing "normal" development 12:19:41 kooll: that means someone could poison your cache with something innocuous-looking or even useful that is later replaced with bad stuff. 12:19:44 fe[nl]ix: independent of the cryptographic attack. 12:20:03 Fare: aren't you using SHA to guide a build? If you can't trust the source, colliding hashes are the least of your worries. 12:20:05 Fare: what sort of environment would it be that the worst someone could do is create a source file that collides with a 'real' source file? 12:20:19 pkhuong, I'm using TTH. 12:20:29 Fare: I somehow doubt that there are "malicious programmers" at ITA which create collisions on demand 12:20:38 pkhuong, I'm concerned about cache sharing on a network. 12:20:39 The point remains: what's your threat model? 12:21:01 OTOH, the basic tenet of modern software engineering is 'don't trust your developers' (or so it seems) 12:21:02 that nasty upstream hackers have replaced a git commit with a different one with the same identifier? :-) 12:21:33 splittist: no. it is "don't trust". :) 12:21:51 pkhuong, threat model is you are conned into depending on a resource identified by hash, that passes safety tests, but is later replaced by malicious resource. 12:22:09 splittist: but more the way you don't trust 5 year old kids than the way you mistrust a convicted felon. 12:22:46 sha1 is broken and should not be used for new development, so say the crypto gods 12:22:47 5 year old kids: the littlest grifters 12:22:55 But some of them are indeed convicted felons 12:23:03 Adamant: for crypto development. 12:23:07 in any case, my question is not related to the choice of hash function 12:23:44 pkhuong: sure, but if you don't care about security, md5 is already out there and faster. 12:24:36 Adamant: no, the risk of collisions with md5 are much greater than with SHA-1. 12:25:20 rather, I'm wondering how to cache or not cache the information, and whether I should spend time enhancing the Makefile backend, or just start a new backend that does the right thing. 12:25:24 pkhuong: if you're positing random collisions, you'd need gobs of data to make a practical difference. 12:25:41 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:25:47 Adamant: 2^64 isn't that large. 12:26:09 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:26:15 levy_ [n=levy@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:26:15 pkhuong: it's large enough for most things. unless you're doing filesystem stuff. 12:26:22 or big DBs, etc 12:27:18 What is this 2^64 doing out of nowhere 12:27:21 How do you determine that? I'd like to see your risk analysis here. How do you determine how many bits of hash are needed? 12:27:43 pkhuong: if you're that concerned, just use SHA2 12:27:46 sorry, 128. 12:28:03 -!- seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:28:47 2^64 is birthday-collision on md5, no? 12:29:08 yup 12:29:29 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@118.90.128.137] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:29:50 What 12:30:14 no, it's 2^128, I remembered wrong. 12:30:22 What is "birthday-collision"? 12:30:27 And why is it somehow 2^64? 12:30:33 eddie [n=misterbu@69.248.161.193] has joined #lisp 12:30:52 -!- eddie is now known as Guest67695 12:30:57 Jafet: they're talking about the birthday attack 12:31:11 s/attack/accident/ in this case. 12:31:36 *Fare* decides that the Makefile backend is too dumb to drive computation from hash, and only needs to compute information once per image-dump, wherein recomputing the hashes is cheap enough. 12:31:44 If you somehow think that 2^64 is a magical cutoff for obtaining collisions with certainty, you need to go back to probability 101 12:32:00 wow, thanks 12:32:39 I was about to try to explain some more, but now I'm not interested 12:33:11 jan247 [n=jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 12:33:34 Welcome 12:33:49 (the point of the hash is that when you rebuild from an image, you want to tell xcvb what versions of the fasls you have loaded, and xcvb replies with new versions to load, including the new hashes) 12:34:53 -!- levy [n=levy@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:35:46 There are much bigger holes to worry your pants off over than the strength of your crypto 12:35:54 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:36:31 completely. 12:36:49 still not a reason to start with the wrong crypto. 12:38:38 seems unregistering the readtable on re-eval works better here .. ah, tcr is gone 12:40:16 minion: memo for gigamonkey: http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/10/03/is-programming-getting-easier-or-harder/ 12:40:16 Remembered. I'll tell gigamonkey when he/she/it next speaks. 12:40:17 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:08 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2FAA9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:42:10 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 12:42:43 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:21 splittist: me, for defclass 12:43:26 drafael [n=tapio@118.90.128.137] has joined #lisp 12:43:31 splittist: why? 12:47:21 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 12:48:23 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441541.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 12:48:49 rstandy [n=rastandy@pc212-189-140-32.unile.it] has joined #lisp 12:49:39 -!- Guest67695 [n=misterbu@69.248.161.193] has quit [Client Quit] 12:50:01 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:52:38 jango974 [n=tetepoiv@AStDenis-108-1-27-108.w90-43.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:52:40 eddie [n=misterbu@69.248.161.193] has joined #lisp 12:52:58 -!- eddie is now known as Guest86146 12:53:01 -!- Guest86146 [n=misterbu@69.248.161.193] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:53:32 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 12:55:48 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118.90.128.137] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:57:25 eddie_ [n=misterbu@69.248.161.193] has joined #lisp 12:58:35 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-86.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:59:27 I guess I could learn somethings about types by learning more about defstruct 13:01:36 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 13:03:19 Alabaman_ [n=badgerfa@81-226-253-54-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:03:37 knobo: What do you want to learn about them? 13:04:51 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:18 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 13:07:27 -!- jango974 [n=tetepoiv@AStDenis-108-1-27-108.w90-43.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 13:09:14 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.90.109] has joined #lisp 13:09:21 -!- jyujin_ [n=jyujin@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:11:09 blackened` [n=blackene@ffstudd14.phil.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 13:12:25 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:43 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 13:15:09 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@78-69-144-82-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:15:28 <_3b> anyone running recent prerelease firefox or webkit browser? http://3bb.cc/tmp/webgl/ 13:15:28 -!- eddie_ [n=misterbu@69.248.161.193] has quit [] 13:16:45 <_3b> (note that firefox at least is still pretty fragile with that stuff, so it may break things horribly :p ) 13:18:15 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 13:19:10 *_3b* is guessing lots of people see an empty square right about now :p 13:19:18 Krystof: i assume you have received a mail from a japanese guy about GLX 13:19:42 Krystof: i'm writing a reply to him. cannot provide much help, but do you want to receive a cc of that message? 13:19:46 webgl.. what a name 13:20:06 *_3b* didn't name it 13:20:52 can't get GL context 13:21:31 <_3b> like i said, you need recent prerelease, firefox nightly <2 weeks old or so, dunno about webkit stuff 13:21:52 ahh, ok, my firefox is not *that* new 13:21:57 <_3b> :) 13:22:25 <_3b> i think webkit supported it a few weeks earlier, but probably still not in any released browsers 13:23:19 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:23:36 <_3b> it isn't actually that interesting, was mostly just hoping someone would try it on webkit so i could see if it works there too 13:24:35 did sbcl get slower compiling with high optimizations? staring at the running compiling log suggests that... 13:24:43 *_3b* wonders how ugly trying to mix webgl support into cl-opengl would be 13:24:53 beach: just that I've started using Abbrevs in lisp mode, and I'm still not sure what 'dc' should be. (I must check why my '&k' etc abbrevs aren't working...) 13:25:06 <_3b> compared to the ugliness of conflicting package nicknames 13:26:09 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 13:26:55 jdz: I have not 13:27:18 Krystof: it has been sent to csr21 at cam.ac.up 13:27:21 *uk 13:28:13 antoszka_ [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 13:28:46 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:28:48 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:29:00 -!- antoszka_ is now known as antoszka 13:29:27 rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has joined #lisp 13:30:00 -!- rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has left #lisp 13:30:03 on another note: is telent-clx darcs repo still up? i'm now installing darcs, and the small "fix" the guy sent makes the gears example work 13:30:05 attila_lendvai, at ITA, we're using a patch for one of the analyzes that tends to diverge otherwise. 13:31:16 bah, compiling ghc again... 13:31:30 so much for avoiding installing darcs 13:32:22 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 13:32:42 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ffstudd14.phil.muni.cz] has quit [] 13:33:56 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.194.6] has joined #lisp 13:33:57 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:34:23 <_3b> does anyone know how to translate 'webkit supports webgl' into 'download X to get webkit with webgl' ? 13:34:32 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 13:34:35 jyujin_ [n=jyujin@216.221.90.121] has joined #lisp 13:34:35 *_3b* fails at googling any sort of info about webkit 13:35:03 _3b: webkit daily (nighly) builds are somewhere on their frontpage i think... 13:35:11 lasts [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 13:35:36 or, nightly.webkit.org 13:35:42 <_3b> ah, i'll try that then 13:36:29 jdz: that mail address stoped working several years ago 13:36:43 Krystof: ok, then i won't cc :) 13:36:50 csr21(cantab.net 13:37:14 telent-clx may or may not be still up; I maintain one at http://common-lisp.net/~crhodes/clx 13:37:17 "maintain" 13:37:20 you know what I mean 13:37:25 :) 13:38:45 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:57 <_3b> ah, guess i need safari to run webkit nightly :( 13:40:24 <_3b> not sure i trust apple enough to install that just for curiosity :p 13:41:12 yeah, it comes with brain-sucking parasites in the package, but people usually get used to them and don't even notice after a while 13:41:38 and then they start buying iPods and iPhones and iEverything 13:42:23 bah, ghc still compiling 13:43:40 -!- jyujin_ [n=jyujin@216.221.90.121] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:43:50 beach` [n=user@90.55.84.22] has joined #lisp 13:44:05 hi 13:44:34 dwim.hu now works on google chrome too 13:45:06 jdz: it's going to take a while 13:45:20 jdz: last I built it on a core2duo machine, it took a couple of hours... or was it a day 13:46:08 also, oh wow, canvas 3d (: 13:46:23 lasts pasted "cl-couchdb problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88208 13:46:52 I'm having some problems with cl-couchdb (drakma in fact) 13:47:12 the two were installed by asdf (and I'm using sbcl) 13:47:25 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:47:40 I've succeed to remove the fail back to binary, but I'm stuck with DRAKMA::WITH-CHARACTER-STREAM-SEMANTICS 13:47:42 levy_: I get an "Internal server error" in Repositories->Git 13:47:47 what should I do ? :) 13:48:10 lasts: sounds like some flexi-streams thing. 13:49:39 hm 13:49:48 shrewd1 [n=arn@220-253-47-24.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:50:16 lasts: ooor maybe cl-couchdb is out of sync with flexi-streams / drakma 13:50:22 what's the backtrace say? 13:50:47 <_3b> antifuchs: canvas 3d from lisp even :) 13:50:53 -!- h3 [n=heretic@cpc3-leic1-0-0-cust999.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Segmentation Fault"] 13:50:56 -!- mjonsson [n=mjonsson@cpe-74-68-112-229.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:51:07 <_3b> (by way of parenscript) 13:51:15 lasts annotated #88208 "backtrace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88208#1 13:51:17 _3b: well, javascript is a pretty fine little language in its own right. I don't need crutches like parenscript 13:51:38 <_3b> yeah, i like macros though 13:51:46 well, cl-couchdb is using drakma, which uses flexi-stream 13:51:56 fe[nl]ix, thanks, fixed for now... was a file system access error 13:52:10 _3b: also, adding a translation layer gives you hard-to-find bugs if any of your assumptions are violated 13:52:18 drakma was having problems to give a correct charset to flexi-streams, but I think I've solved this part.. 13:52:22 like being able to bit-shift arbitrarily long integers (: 13:52:46 <_3b> antifuchs: right, or 0 being false (though i might have forgotten that one anyway, been a while since i did c-style stuff) 13:53:16 right... or null, or undefined. nothing works better to remind you to watch for pitfalls than a strange syntax (: 13:53:34 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:13 lasts: hum, looks like drakma isn't getting the interface it expects from flexi-streams 13:54:22 try updating flexi-streams, or drakma, or both 13:55:42 This looks funky (dwim.hu): (:export The value # is not of type (OR (VECTOR CHARACTER) (VECTOR NIL) BASE-STRING PATHNAME FILE-STREAM).#:it etc 13:56:17 antifuchs, both were installed by asdf, should I re-install them manually ? 13:56:40 lasts: I think that would make sense. I'm not sure if all ediware is supposed to be asdf-installable 13:56:48 ...or you could try using it via clbuild 13:56:52 (I'm deeply sorry for my english, I don't speak this language regularly; thanks you very much for helping me) 13:57:01 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1279405258.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:57:13 ok, I'm going to try that, thanks :) 13:57:20 your english is fine (: 13:57:58 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32C42E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:44 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:59:49 splittist, where did you found that? 14:00:47 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-79-46.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:01:54 attila annotated #88202 "gdb backtrace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88202#1 14:02:39 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:06:07 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.231.179] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:06:42 ASau [n=user@77.246.231.179] has joined #lisp 14:07:20 attila_lendvai: install libc6-dbg 14:08:09 antifuchs, it looks like the drakma packaged for asdf is uncomplet, as (drakma:http-request "http://lisp.org") raises the same error 14:08:34 sunwukong [n=vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:08:35 and installation from the sources (drakma and flexi-streams) changes nothing 14:08:36 lasts: yeah, it looks like that from the backtrace 14:08:39 hmm. 14:08:47 that is weird 14:08:53 where did you fetch the archives from? 14:09:28 lasts: works here 14:09:46 well, the main website, ie http://weitz.de/flexi-streams/ and http://weitz.de/drakma/ 14:10:22 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:10:28 levy_: on Chrome, Project/anaphora/Content/...packages.lisp 14:10:48 anon_ [n=anon@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 14:11:04 -!- shrewd1 [n=arn@220-253-47-24.VIC.netspace.net.au] has left #lisp 14:11:28 attila annotated #88202 "gdb backtrace with libc6-dbg installed" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88202#2 14:12:12 fe[nl]ix: anything else that may help? alloc_tramp after gettimofday looks funny... 14:12:28 lasts: huh, I am seeing the same error in a mailing list post from august 2008. did you upgrade chunga as well? 14:12:30 Davse_Ba1se [n=davse@130.226.210.2] has joined #lisp 14:12:33 -!- Davse_Ba1se [n=davse@130.226.210.2] has quit [Client Quit] 14:12:52 fe[nl]ix: or do i need to rebuild sbcl after the install? 14:13:02 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:13:05 attila_lendvai: did you load the debug info ? 14:13:31 fe[nl]ix: i've thought it's loaded automatically 14:13:41 splittist, thanks, seems like we have trouble with reading uninterned symbols 14:13:48 attila_lendvai: only when gdb starts 14:13:53 salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:56 ahah, thanks antifuchs, looks like a good idea 14:14:22 lasts pasted "chunga / drakma conflict" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88209 14:14:31 fe[nl]ix: i've restarted the whole sbcl process, i can reliably reproduce this... ("Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/lib/libc-2.9.so...done.") 14:14:45 that's very strange >_> 14:15:09 attila_lendvai: ok. perhaps you need to compile sbcl with debug info enabled 14:15:31 i've also tried with a restrict compiler policy safety 2... same crash. 14:16:22 attila_lendvai: add -g3 to $CFLAGS and recompile 14:16:34 fe[nl]ix: i can't seem to find ... thanks! ;) 14:16:57 héhé 14:17:08 it works, thanks antifuchs :) 14:17:09 attila_lendvai: and -fno-inline 14:17:16 oooh, excellent 14:17:18 lasts: you're welcome (: 14:18:11 yeah, and cl-couchdb too, awesome, thanks you very much :) 14:18:44 ("yeah" like in "yeah!") 14:19:47 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:20:05 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 14:20:22 fe[nl]ix: like this: $ CFLAGS="-g3 -fno-inline" ./make.sh ? an assert before i need to restart building in 5 minutes... 14:20:55 attila_lendvai: that should work 14:20:56 attila_lendvai: you can slam.sh to only build the runtime. 14:21:13 milanj [n=milan@93.86.215.194] has joined #lisp 14:21:23 Unhammer [n=user@c28374BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 14:21:29 pkhuong: thanks, that would have been useful a few times! /me makes note 14:22:08 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:45 -!- dwh [n=dwh@118.209.232.128] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:24:19 scharles [n=scharles@80.194.73.98] has joined #lisp 14:26:32 Hi. Anybody used SBCL/CLSQL/MYSQL together and found a workaround for the c-string decoding erro :UTF-8 problem ? I *know* that there is junk in the database and I wanted to write a utility in SBCL to actually find it and correct itbut I cannot find way to do this. I have tried everything, read gmane, everything I can but still have no working solution. What makes it worse is I finally persuaded *them* to let e use LISP for the job 14:26:42 and so far it has been a complete waste of effort! :( 14:27:38 I have tried setting *default-external-format* to :ISO-8859-1 and restarting but it makes no difference. 14:28:08 dear lazy-#lisp, what's that technique where you collect all the keyword params from a macro/function so you can APPLY real-func KEYS (where real-func takes the same keywords)? 14:28:15 Can I write some kind of override etc to handle the failure and continue? I am relatively new to LISP, used it on and off for a few years, mainly Erlang for FP these days. 14:28:41 chupish [i=182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-cgmomtqnieujcgby] has joined #lisp 14:28:59 splittist: I can't parse your sentence 14:29:06 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:29 splittist: bitte rephrase 14:30:30 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32C42E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:10 &allow-other-keys &rest ? 14:32:23 Is "COMMON LISP: A gentle introduction to symbolic computing" a good book to teach beginners Lisp? 14:32:45 minion: tell anon_ about that dead sexy book 14:32:46 anon_: i don't know what you're referring to 14:32:57 minion: tell anon_ about PCL 14:32:58 anon_: please see PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 14:33:21 minion: who wrote you? 14:33:22 king kong 14:33:48 I'll look into PCL, thanks for the suggestion :) 14:34:50 i noticed in the MIT videos that they kept defining "sub" functions for recursion within a function. is that common? 14:35:23 Demosthenes: the MIT videos use scheme, don't they? 14:35:36 dlowe: i think so ;] 14:35:38 <_3b> seems reasonably common way to do recursion 14:35:43 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 14:36:00 they did a good job of introducing ideas. the code was pseudocode for all i cared 14:36:01 fe[nl]ix: I wanted a lambda-list for a macro that would allow me to collect the keyword args given to that macro such that I could APPLY them to a function called by the macro-expansion. (defmacro ((&rest keys) &body body) `(prog2 (start) (apply func ,keys) (end))), as a stupid example. 14:36:05 kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 Demosthenes: in CL, you'd use the LABELS form 14:37:09 dlowe: have a sample code that demonstrates that? 14:37:21 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has joined #lisp 14:37:48 -!- K3NT1S_aw [n=kent@sd-16241.dedibox.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:37:50 can i make the SLIME REPL buffer a certain height by default? 14:37:52 <_3b> (labels ((infinite-loop () (infinite-loop))) (infinite-loop)) ? 14:37:53 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.231.179] has quit ["off"] 14:38:08 like: only 15 lines instead of half the window 14:39:08 splittist: I see. you could use (func ,@keys) to cons less 14:39:19 Demosthenes: (defun list-length (list) (labels ((helper (list accum) (if (null list) accum (helper (cdr list) (1+ accum))))) (helper list 0)) 14:39:42 dlowe: basically just labels vs defun 14:40:00 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:40:02 Demosthenes: defun will not produce a lexically bound function 14:40:07 right 14:40:25 <_3b> also, labels lets you define multiple functions at once 14:41:06 anon_: indeed, gentle is the book I'd advise to non-programmer beginners. 14:41:15 attila annotated #88202 "sbcl compiled with debug info (?)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88202#3 14:41:25 anon_: if you are already a programmer, then PCL will be more interesting. 14:41:29 when trying to save a core in SLIME REPL it complains that i have multiple threads running 14:41:37 i'm using SBCL 14:41:46 <_3b> mm_freak: don't save cores from slime repl 14:42:02 <_3b> (unless i suppose you are using unthreaded slime) 14:42:07 fe[nl]ix: i'm lost. this backtrace is much shorter, but no symbols... but the error reliably comes from the same point in lisp code 14:42:51 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.246.7] has joined #lisp 14:44:55 _3b: how do i do it then? 14:45:00 attila_lendvai: look into /proc//maps to see where those addresses point to 14:46:12 fe[nl]ix: is CCFLAGS an env var at all? slam.sh says: "cc -g -Wall -Wsign-compare -O3 -fno-omit-frame-pointer -I. -c -o search.o search.c" while echo $CFLAGS says -g3 -fno-inline 14:46:34 hmm 14:46:37 <_3b> mm_freak: set the code up so it is easy to load, and build the core from command line 14:46:44 s/CCFLAGS/CFLAGS/ 14:47:40 <_3b> mm_freak: or maybe use something like cl-launch or clbuild 14:48:03 scharles: you might want to describe what you're trying to do, what you expect and what you get rather more clearly than you have 14:48:06 *_3b* doesn't build cores all that often, so isn't really sure what best options are 14:48:51 attila_lendvai: then modify src/runtime/Config.x86_64-linux and add "-O1 -g3 -fno-inline" to CFLAGS 14:48:59 attila_lendvai: or modify CC. 14:50:27 _3b: what is the best way to distribute a lisp program? i don't expect my users to have a complete lisp environment 14:51:54 tcr, unregister-readtable before the defreadtable forms works for me here .. i can eval multiple times then 14:52:40 pdo [n=pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 14:53:03 <_3b> mm_freak: in that case, building an executable is probably reasonable (assuming size isn't a problem, with sbcl) 14:53:32 attila_lendvai: btw, have you considered using named-readtables for the #f #t stuff? 14:54:32 lichtblau: we don't need file granularity and an extra in-readtable in every file is cumbersome compared to a tiny swank/asdf configuration 14:54:35 HET2 [n=diman@80.3.31.126] has joined #lisp 14:55:42 *Fare* has laid out the groundwork for in-image compilation with XCVB. Now to debug it... 14:55:44 Hmm. Perhaps tcr could be pursuaded to offer package-level granularity for named-readtables as a proper feature (rather than the implementation accident it currently is). 14:56:17 -!- albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has left #lisp 14:56:19 (Is in-readtable really that cumbersome, considering that it's just another line for a file header that already has in-package anyway?) 14:56:24 lichtblau: easy: just shadow in-package 14:56:47 lichtblau: exactly double cumbersome :) 14:57:00 fe[nl]ix: that will break slime C-cC-c 14:57:09 fe[nl]ix: the point of writing it out is that slime sees it 14:57:29 lichtblau: anything wrong with the current setup? 14:58:11 attila_lendvai: well, what setup? I admit this is naive, but I'm using upstream slime and just expect things to work. 14:58:25 (Unless I'm using Hemlock, but admittedly I'm not -yet- doing that at work.) 14:58:52 lichtblau: they should work out of the box (where "they" means asdf:load-op and slime C-cC-c) 14:59:00 fe[nl]ix: the same goes for the pathname syntax in iolib 14:59:11 lichtblau: i assume then that C-cC-c is broken for you? 14:59:19 yeah. Is my slime just outdated? 14:59:35 doubt, it's using an age-old feature... 14:59:57 lichtblau: I don't understand 15:00:10 lichtblau: you've found problems with the pathname syntax ? 15:00:19 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.247.114] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:00:41 lichtblau: i've forward-ported our most needed slime patches and we are using slime-head now again on the dwim.hu refactored codebase 15:01:46 srcerer_ [n=chatzill@63.196.107.132] has joined #lisp 15:02:27 lichtblau: do you have (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :swank)? because if you have then asdf-system-connection should load-op the swank integration for all of our libs 15:02:56 which in turn register the readtables for swank, see cl-syntax-sugar:register-readtable-for-swank 15:03:27 or just simply inspect swank:*readtable-alist* which should have the package-name -> readtable mappings 15:04:32 ah, I see. There was something wrong with that on Allegro, and I didn't see what it was for, so I didn't bother investigating it. So it's my fault it doesn't work. 15:04:37 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 15:05:01 Anyone with experience building CLM, the music thing for lisp? 15:07:46 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:08:47 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:55 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 15:14:17 -!- meingbg [n=meingbg@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has quit ["leaving"] 15:15:04 wgl: yes, but it's 10 years old 15:15:09 my experience, that is 15:15:44 I realise that might not be too helpful 15:15:46 Ah. It clearly is expected to work with SBCL, but no joy in building it. What did you do with it. 15:17:14 I played a bit with the notation bit 15:17:41 Looks like quite an interesting project. And quite a unique way of building it. 15:18:58 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:19:26 lnostdal: Right, that will do it, too. 15:21:49 fe[nl]ix: I think he means you should consider adding a weak dependency on named-readtables, and provide a readtable-name (say iolib:pathname-syntax) for your pathname syntax 15:22:31 over my dead body 15:22:38 weak deps totally suck 15:23:13 How so? 15:23:35 a well-factored program is one where modifications are surprisingly smaller than feared. 15:23:45 *lichtblau* just depends on named-readtables strongly 15:23:49 mm_freak, sbcl cores compress well .. at least with lzma or bzip2 .. if you dump an executable core you might get some ok compression with bzexe too 15:23:53 (what is a weak dependency?) 15:24:16 :weakly-depends-on, will only load a system if it's available 15:24:18 lichtblau: one that asdf loads only if locally present, otherwise ignored 15:24:39 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 15:24:48 -!- anon_ [n=anon@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has left #lisp 15:24:49 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has quit [] 15:24:56 fe[nl]ix: ah, is that an ASDF-SYSTEM-CONNECTIONS disaster, or an age-old built-into-asdf disaster? 15:25:14 kind of the latter, but not that age-old afaik 15:25:24 lichtblau: it's similar to a-s-c 15:25:28 tcr: I think slime just check at runtime whether NAMED-READTABLES is there, and pull its info out of that. 15:25:42 fsvo "just" 15:25:55 That way, user code doesn't have to depend on swank, neither strongly nor weakly. It just has to depend on named-readtables, which is small and doesn't introduce incompatibilities with slime versions, etc. 15:26:35 Yeah, of course 15:27:02 (And other editors which don't use normal swank can benefit from the same setup!) 15:27:02 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit ["bye"] 15:27:16 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 15:27:19 But named-readtables was designed to be used as a weak dependency. I'd be interested to know what's so bad. 15:27:22 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has joined #lisp 15:27:47 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 15:27:49 lichtblau: Yeah sure, that's initial whole point of named-readtables. 15:27:57 lichtblau: RPG missed that from ELI 15:28:10 did people who've mailed me about sbcl10 get mailman subscription notifications? 15:28:18 *tcr* did 15:28:22 Krystof: not yet 15:28:24 Krystof: add me. 15:28:26 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:28:38 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has quit [Client Quit] 15:28:57 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:29:01 bzoto [n=pradella@pradella.dei.polimi.it] has joined #lisp 15:29:17 redblue [i=star@ppp127.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:29:24 wonder if we should support natively bziped cores 15:30:31 -!- bzoto [n=pradella@pradella.dei.polimi.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:31:23 we moved away from weak-deps (asdf-s-c) and it's kinda missing... the problem with depending on cl-perec+swank is that sometimes you don't want swank in the image, but if you load-op swank then you want to get _all_ the swank integrations loaded with it 15:31:38 not missing badly, though 15:32:14 tcr: so whould *pre-reply-hook* be the right place for this kind of sync, kind of like sync-indentation-to-emacs? 15:33:03 Krystof: should we mail you, or is the mailman list going to be the more organized method of keeping track? 15:33:29 jsnell_: you've already mailed me 15:33:42 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-45-9.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:34:03 I think when I ask for and get proper firm commitments, my method of keeping track will be the a list of names on the public website, somewhat like ECLM 15:34:03 wait, I have? 15:34:28 anyway, didn't get a mailman notice either :-P 15:34:37 ah, no, you haven't 15:34:57 I could have sworn you had 15:34:58 weird 15:35:21 I've probably acked attendance multiple times on IRC 15:35:39 yeah 15:36:02 lichtblau: I must have missed something; what kind of sync? 15:36:03 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-101-69.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:36:06 -!- jsnell_ is now known as jsnell 15:36:29 lichtblau: If it's still about named-readtables, the problem is that the slime side has to keep track of the current buffer readtable, and has to transfer that information to the swank side 15:37:28 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:37:52 DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has joined #lisp 15:38:00 X-Scale [i=email@89.181.57.79] has joined #lisp 15:38:20 okay. I was thinking that for cl-perec, for example, we've established that the maintainers actually want a package-to-readtable mapping. And if that's to be done without having cl-perec depend on swank, then it's swank that needs to tell emacs regularly about named-readtable mappings [iff named-readtables are loaded]. 15:38:36 quasimodo [n=quassel@s142-59-200-239.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:13 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-101-69.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:39:27 p_l [i=plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-zgvbjcirzcrgwkga] has joined #lisp 15:41:08 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:41:29 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:42:20 Edward__ [i=Ed@90.3.237.55] has joined #lisp 15:42:28 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:42:34 It does not have to depend on swank 15:43:39 hm ah well it probably does have to exist 15:44:47 KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-3-96.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:44 gah. another try of bringing clojure into my course foiled. (ABCL would probably end similarly) 15:48:51 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:51:41 namor [n=namor@dslb-088-072-204-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:47 -!- namor [n=namor@dslb-088-072-204-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 15:53:25 ravster [n=user@dsl-67-204-22-29.acanac.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:29 Hello all 15:53:29 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:53:53 hello ravster 15:54:17 -!- PissedNumlock [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit ["I leave"] 15:54:35 PissedNumlock [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:56:05 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:56:19 danlei [n=user@pD9E2FAA9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:22 -!- PissedNumlock [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Client Quit] 15:56:39 PissedNumlock [n=resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:57:20 I remember reading an article a while back about implementing an RFC in Lisp and how to do it. I'm new at Lisp, and would like to read that article again. Normal googling didn't work. Does anyone else know the article (Or any other one that explains how implementing standards should be done)? 15:58:39 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@90.3.237.55] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:58:44 hum. What does that SBCL error mean? (while using run-program) c-string decoding error (:external-format :UTF-8): the octet sequence 1 cannot be decoded. 15:58:55 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-3-198.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:59:13 ravster, what are you trying to do? 15:59:32 ravster: that article description doesn't quite ring a bell for me 15:59:50 wasn't it a lispm video? 16:00:00 start with the protocol description and put parens around it? 16:00:06 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 16:00:15 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:00:27 I think so, where he yanked the description and did some keyboard macro for turning it into code 16:00:31 (or alternatively, build a parser for the RFC) 16:01:10 Fare: well, it means something weird is going on 16:01:19 yeah, a friend once parenthesized some assembly code for me as the start of the decoding of some legacy tapes of data... 16:01:21 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 16:01:35 Fare: Nothing, really. I just feel like reading it again, or any article on how to implement RFCs. Its to satisfy my curiousity. 16:02:06 Fare: do you have an environment variable with a value that's not valid utf-8? 16:02:18 Fare: oh, it means "there's an octet sequence which is invalid, and the decode-break-reason is 1" 16:02:24 jsnell, I was thinking about that... wait... 16:02:43 (where decode-break-reason is a variable internal to the c-string code that shouldn't get exposed, *sigh*) 16:02:50 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:03:00 not that I can see, though 16:03:09 Krystof: That sounds familiar (Lispm video might be it). 16:03:26 moreover I have other uses of run-program that work just fine. 16:03:34 Fare: then maybe it's in the input or output stream 16:04:04 but would that be talking about c-strings? 16:05:01 ravster: http://lispm.dyndns.org/mov/dsl-in-lisp.mov is that it? 16:05:10 a backtrace would probably tell us more 16:05:10 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:06:15 stassats`: thanks 16:06:15 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@pc212-189-140-32.unile.it] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:06:47 hum. Maybe I shouldn't have (let ((*standard-output* *error-output*)) around that? 16:07:25 indeed, that fixes it. 16:07:42 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:07:47 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:07:57 so there might be some interesting race condition when using run-program and there is stream aliasing. 16:07:58 dialtone [n=dialtone@98.210.155.172] has joined #lisp 16:08:11 -!- quasimodo [n=quassel@s142-59-200-239.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:08:33 quasimodo [n=quassel@s142-59-200-239.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:29 I can't reproduce it :( 16:09:34 dammit. 16:09:42 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:10:03 now I can... non-deterministic, suggests a race condition indeed. 16:10:36 gnucash is bugging me way too much. Is there a common lisp (CLI) client that does something like gnucash? 16:10:54 http://paste.lisp.org/+1W2G 16:11:00 ejs [n=eugen@95.135.11.30] has joined #lisp 16:11:08 madnificent: john wiegly (probably spelled wrong) was working on a financial application of some sort in CL 16:11:18 madnificent: I think he got sick of CL and did something else, though. 16:11:18 madnificent: client to what ? 16:11:44 -!- scharles [n=scharles@80.194.73.98] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:11:45 quasimodo_ [n=quassel@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:53 fe[nl]ix: s/client/application (or connection to an application) 16:12:03 Xach: hmmm, any ideas on what I should search for? 16:12:13 backtrace pasted above... 16:12:14 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:12:26 wigley, that could be him 16:12:29 jsnell, what language are you writing a compiler for targetting LLVM? 16:12:41 madnificent: http://wiki.github.com/jwiegley/ledger 16:12:48 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:13:18 I am writing first web app in lisp. My query is what do people normally use for lisp based db driven apps. You prefer abstraction layers such as elephant or write your own queries ? 16:13:39 no, it's not the redirection. 16:13:55 <_3b> the serious people seem to all write their entire stack from scratch :p 16:14:00 Could it be simply that the run-program'ed thing is sending me non-UTF8 output? 16:14:14 <_3b> rest of us just use one of those, of pick pieces at random 16:14:15 Xach: just started reading it 16:14:40 no_mind: welcome to lisp, where every single user has a different view on the same problem :) 16:14:51 frito [n=user@86.7.68.14] has joined #lisp 16:15:08 nah, it doesn't. Sounds like a race condition (using SBCL 1.0.31.0.debian). 16:15:08 *_3b* tends to use hunchentoot + postmodern, but will probably at some point try the ucw stuff 16:15:21 kind of sucks, though. 16:15:45 lhz [n=shrekz@213.114.170.185] has joined #lisp 16:15:57 *levy_* is sad 16:16:02 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:16:38 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 16:16:47 levy_: why ? 16:16:53 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-13-227.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:14 interestingly, when the failure occurs, it seems to occur immediately 16:17:24 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 16:17:32 when it runs successfully, it works for many seconds. 16:17:51 nha [n=prefect@85.4.174.31] has joined #lisp 16:17:58 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:18:00 Fare: a semi-toy non-lisp array processing one. pretty much just an excuse to get familiar with llvm 16:18:18 fe[nl]ix, just the usual browser s**t, ie, firefox, safari, chrome, opera 16:18:34 *_3b* thought for a second someone managed to look at the dwarf, but then checked the IP and it was just me again :p 16:18:47 _3b: dwarf? 16:19:03 <_3b> madnificent: the webgl dwarf 16:19:03 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:19:23 link? 16:19:24 hum. How do I fake use latin1 to fake the default encoding, already? 16:19:26 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:19:29 Fare: try inspecting the memory at #X10031B6200 16:19:38 madnificent, I am not new to lisp 16:19:43 Xach: seems to be using C++ :) 16:19:44 <_3b> madnificent: http://3bb.cc/tmp/webgl/ *note, probably does not work on your browser 16:19:53 madnificent, but developing a commercial app with lisp for first time 16:20:09 _3b: indeed, it doesn't 16:20:20 no_mind: you needed the sql integration, right? 16:20:21 jyujin_ [n=jyujin@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:34 madnificent, yup 16:20:47 I've heard some good about postmodern... and it is actually quite nice 16:20:48 dwim.hu still needs some time to make it work under ie8 and safari too (the other three players are working) 16:21:21 no_mind: or try cl-rdbms if you want a layer of backend abstraction 16:21:36 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:21:41 Krystof: I enabled debugging, and now I'm having trouble reproducing... 16:21:50 <_3b> madnificent: needs firefox or webkit nightly build from within last few weeks (not tested on webkit though) 16:22:32 Krystof: do you have any hotel or bed and breakfast recommendation around Goldsmiths? (Not too cheap, not too expensive, ...) 16:22:40 -!- frito [n=user@86.7.68.14] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:22:43 :-/ 16:22:53 Fare: given that you're using make, is it possible that some of the runs are compiling different files from other runs? 16:22:57 my problem is that the app will allow users to create new tables and add fields on the fly. So the backend need to be able to reconfigure the schema and identify additions to schema without any hassle 16:22:57 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:23:02 lichtblau: I do not, not yet anyway. I will ask around 16:23:23 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:23:33 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:23:50 Krystof, conceivable. 16:24:08 though I don't understand why make would output non-UTF8 sequence 16:24:17 no_mind: then i'd go with cl-perec (an ORM), but it's our stuff, so i'm biased 16:26:42 if I bind sb-impl::*default-external-format* or something like that, can I workaround the problem? 16:26:51 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-198-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:27:19 lichtblau: have you been to Goldsmiths? Is actually sleeping around there what you really want? 16:27:58 Fare: if the error is coming from sb-alien (as the c-string suggests), you want SB-ALIEN::*DEFAULT-C-STRING-EXTERNAL-FORMAT* 16:28:27 Fare: or start up sbcl with LANG=en_US.latin-1 16:28:33 -!- quasimodo [n=quassel@s142-59-200-239.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:41 splittist raises a good point 16:28:42 splittist: no, I haven't been there. My colleague just mentioned that the area might "rough", and recommended to look in the direction of greenwich instead, assuming I want to be close to Goldsmiths at all... 16:28:52 _3b: it'll have to wait a bit then 16:28:54 and can probably do you a nice deal on a luxury hotel in London 16:29:31 (the area is rough -- it is most famous for Christopher Marlowe being stabbed there :-) 16:29:56 <_3b> madnificent: probably for the best, firefox still isn't very good at it anyway :) 16:30:07 _3b: the palm pre emulator doesn't run it either (at least not yet) 16:30:29 -!- ejs [n=eugen@95.135.11.30] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:30:45 <_3b> madnificent: heh 16:30:45 hm, hyde park -- not so convenient 16:30:51 -!- jyujin_ [n=jyujin@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:31:02 jyujin_ [n=jyujin@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:13 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-5de570d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:31:25 lichtblau: Greenwich is easily commutable, walkable in about 30 minutes from "Mar 16:31:35 itime Greenwich" 16:31:57 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.240.13] has joined #lisp 16:32:08 other possibilities include the London Bridge area (Goldsmiths is 10 minutes away by train) 16:32:22 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-3-96.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:32:23 -!- KingNatoG5_ is now known as KingNatoG5 16:32:27 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-147.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:34:42 Krystof, in any case, no run of make should output anything non-utf8 (or non-ascii), and it doesn't look like the thing's happening from the output proper, more like argument or environment preparation... 16:34:50 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-65-36.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:35:02 _3b: I tested it... that's what I was saying... as you hinted that you were looking at the page requests 16:35:09 (but I've been so wrong so many times that who knows) 16:35:42 okay, the London Bridge area sounds good as a sight-seeing starting point 16:35:42 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:36:29 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:36:49 quasimodo [n=quassel@s142-59-200-239.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:31 lichtblau: Vielleicht können wir beide uns absprechen mit der Unterkunft. 16:37:41 I was copying from one stream to the other with read-sequence. Now I'm using read-line... could that play a role? 16:37:53 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:38:15 <_3b> madnificent: ah, more testing is good, would be cool if it worked (on the actual device in particular) though :) 16:38:26 how do I undefine a method again? I changed a lambda list and can't recompile because the implicit generic method has the old lambda list 16:39:07 <_3b> fmakunbound to kill the entire generic, use slime inspector or mop for individual methods 16:39:13 bfein: inspect the function 16:39:14 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:39:16 thats it, thanks 16:39:25 _3b: I don't think it will work if the emulator doesn't provide it yet. The emulator is WebOS 1.2, I think the devices in europe will be shipped with 1.1 initially 16:39:53 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:40:04 tcr: What do you have in mind? 16:40:13 <_3b> madnificent: right, wouldn't expect it any time soon, since it isn't even released on desktops (or even have a final spec as far as i know) 16:40:14 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:54 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:41:00 quasimodo__ [n=quassel@65.61.237.53] has joined #lisp 16:42:19 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 16:43:02 lichtblau: I haven't been in London before, so I'd prefer to stay close to someone else :) 16:43:07 -!- myst [n=x@dynamic-vpdn-93-125-62-177.telecom.by] has quit [] 16:43:24 Has anyone in London been to http://www.inamo-restaurant.com/ ? It looks pricy (and must be to survive on Wardour St), but the non-techie types who have been say the top-projected table-top ordering/monitoring system is cool. 16:43:43 _icecube_ [n=icecube@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:44:17 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:44:17 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:44:32 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:44:42 lichtblau: We could share the same hotel 16:44:51 room 16:45:17 tell us more about your naughty dreams, fe[nl]ix. :) 16:46:26 I presumed you're not going to occupy an entire hotel 16:46:44 although it would be nice to take 3 floors just for me 16:47:01 _3b: I think palm is very eager to have it though. It is the only real solution to get 3D stuff in webos, AFAICT 16:47:16 tcr: Okay. Perhaps I'll wait a little more with the hotel reservation to see what everyone else picks. 16:47:33 lichtblau: Sure 16:47:42 <_3b> madnificent: ah, i guess that might make it happen sooner then 16:50:09 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.246.7] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:50:45 maybe it's a read-sequence or write-sequence problem, then... 16:50:46 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:51:44 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:53:09 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:53:30 -!- quasimodo_ [n=quassel@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: 105 (No buffer space available)] 16:56:02 maybe try to read-sequence past the end of file or something? 16:57:01 -!- quasimodo [n=quassel@s142-59-200-239.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:57:32 Fare: reading past the end of file will simply return 0 16:57:37 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32D88B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:15 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:00:27 jeti [n=jeti@p548EFA08.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:47 rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 17:01:52 -!- levy_ [n=levy@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:03:16 nyquist [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:03:55 quasimodo [n=quassel@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:56 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-171-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:07:23 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:01 frito [n=user@86.7.68.14] has joined #lisp 17:08:30 -!- jan247 [n=jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:09:59 -!- quasimodo [n=quassel@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:10:48 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:10:59 -!- gz` [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 17:11:42 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 17:12:51 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:13:41 XCVB .392: now with working master/slave build 17:14:24 I don't know what was causing the error. Maybe my code was compiled with lower safety settings than I thought and there was a bug? still some pretty low-level error... 17:14:47 anyway, it looks like it's working now and I can't reproduce the error anymore (yay) 17:15:48 so, XCVB now has the feature that what most in demand -- updating the current image with objects from a new build. 17:18:22 -!- quasimodo__ [n=quassel@65.61.237.53] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:18:24 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.23] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:20:30 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-95-84.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 17:20:32 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.90.109] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:20:42 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:36 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:22:32 G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.97.34] has joined #lisp 17:24:25 impulse32 [n=impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176313886.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:25:49 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:26:48 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:27:12 morphling [n=stefan@89.15.129.198] has joined #lisp 17:29:19 ska` [n=user@124.157.196.253] has joined #lisp 17:30:17 <_3b> hmm, trying to use video elements as textures seems like a good way to crash firefox :p 17:31:20 mqt [i=m@lambda.nirv.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:46 <_3b> aside from the crashing and not being able to figure out how to loop it, it seems to sort of useable 17:32:11 bla [n=bla@195.82.188.30] has joined #lisp 17:32:26 Hi. 17:33:01 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 17:33:29 Just some trivial question of partially lost guy; what package should I use for simple pixel plotting? Open a window (in e.g. X11) and just plot some pixels of specified colour? (cl-sdl?) 17:33:53 <_3b> use lispbuilder-sdl rather than cl-sdl 17:34:08 mcclim 17:34:17 I'm looking for something as standard and simple as possible. 17:34:20 deafmacro [n=user@59.92.162.255] has joined #lisp 17:35:07 I'll take look at this two, thanks. ;d 17:36:46 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 17:40:19 [Head|Rest] [n=nyao@217.149.190.125] has joined #lisp 17:41:45 -!- scottmaccal [n=scott@sentry3.jayschools.org] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:41:49 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:36 -!- nyquist [n=user@19.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:42:44 *Xach* plots to pngs with vecto 17:42:46 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.244] has quit [] 17:43:17 scottmaccal [n=scott@169.244.94.54] has joined #lisp 17:44:05 -!- scottmaccal [n=scott@169.244.94.54] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:44:39 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 17:46:33 scottmaccal [n=scott@169.244.94.54] has joined 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joined #lisp 19:13:02 -!- G0SUB_ [n=ghoseb@117.195.97.34] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:14:37 Tfine [n=Mike@pool-68-163-149-106.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:52 -!- Tfine [n=Mike@pool-68-163-149-106.bos.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 19:15:01 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.215.194] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:08 -!- knobo [n=user@ti100710a080-0499.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:17 -!- vsync [n=vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:18:16 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-45-9.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:18:30 -!- paw` [n=paw`@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:30 -!- paw`_ is now known as paw` 19:19:16 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp127.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:20:05 -!- morphling [n=stefan@89.15.129.198] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:21:59 lispm [n=joswig@e177153198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:24:01 hello lispm 19:24:11 hi there 19:28:20 -!- paw` [n=paw`@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [] 19:28:34 _3b: so they're killing VRML finally? 19:28:50 paw` [n=user@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:05 varjag [n=eugene@103.80-202-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:08 <_3b> Adamant: it was alive at some point? :p 19:29:21 _3b: yeah, in 1996 :P 19:29:30 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.34] has quit [Read error: 105 (No buffer space available)] 19:29:36 <_3b> even then, don't remember it actually being used much 19:32:03 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 19:32:31 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:34 -!- paw` [n=user@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 19:33:06 "next big thing"s usually dont pan out :) 19:34:16 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:37:19 <_3b> i guess you could theoretically implement vrml stuff in webgl, since they aren't really the same thing 19:37:54 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:38:33 -!- scottmaccal [n=scott@169.244.94.54] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:39:03 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-3-198.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:25 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-14-246.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:39:30 Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 19:40:16 -!- frito [n=user@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:40:22 yoonkn_ [n=yoonkn@112.169.40.70] has joined #lisp 19:41:01 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:41:16 <_3b> though i guess it doesn't look enough like html/xml to be easy to parse, so that would probably be a hassle :p 19:44:01 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:45:53 What's the syntax for specializing an optional parameter in a defmethod? 19:46:23 cddr: You can't specialize on an optional parameter. 19:46:24 _icecube_ [n=icecube@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:46:25 cddr: the same as in a normal function, optional params are not dispatched upon 19:46:40 ah 19:46:53 cddr: you want another method that is called from the first, that has your specializer 19:47:01 -!- DrunkTomato [n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru] has quit [] 19:47:19 usually, for method foo with parameter bar, it's called FOO-USING-BAR 19:47:40 (ie slot-value/slot-value-using-class) 19:48:00 ok cool. Thanks all 19:50:15 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:22 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:56:58 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.248.112] has joined #lisp 19:58:55 -!- yoonkn [n=yoonkn@112.169.40.70] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:59:34 mcdonji [n=mcdonji@S0106002369b86815.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:36 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:00:43 -!- ramus`_ is now known as ramus` 20:03:27 silenius [n=jl@dslb-088-073-116-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:34 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:05:52 phf [n=user@host.icnfull.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:07 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:08:54 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:08 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 20:09:20 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:09:29 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.247.198] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:09:31 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:11:07 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 20:14:07 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-206-114-117.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:14:42 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176313886.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 20:14:50 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-223-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:54 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 20:17:05 -!- Tordek_ [n=tordek@186.124.141.80] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:19:46 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-60.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:19:53 rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has joined #lisp 20:21:13 hello 20:23:04 hello 20:23:05 gigamonkey, memo from wgl: http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/10/03/is-programming-getting-easier-or-harder/ 20:23:36 ... tell me please that I have seen incorrectly, but does debian etch include SBCL 0.9.x in repo o_O? 20:25:06 p_l: that sounds plausible. etch is old, isn't it? 20:26:21 arbscht: yeah, but 0.9.x surprised me... 20:27:09 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:27:12 p_l: how come? 20:27:23 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:28:14 -!- lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 20:28:32 arbscht: just going through debian packages after a looong time 20:29:06 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.49.189] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:31:12 Good evening! 20:31:30 -!- beach` is now known as beach 20:31:52 good morning :) 20:32:39 Hello, beach. 20:33:27 arbscht: Are you still in Auckland? 20:33:51 beach: I am 20:35:13 *beach* just picked up Pascal Costanza at the airport and then had dinner with him. Pascal will be visiting Bordeaux for 2x2 weeks. 20:35:21 Oh, nice. 20:36:13 levy [n=levy@apn-89-223-252-31.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 20:36:30 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:36:46 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:19 -!- pem_ [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:37:51 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20:38:36 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:24 Guthur [n=Michael@host81-132-170-158.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:41 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:40:48 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-153.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:41:16 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has joined #lisp 20:41:17 -!- illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:43:20 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:43:31 ruediger [n=ruediger@188-23-88-42.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:43:33 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:43:46 illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:25 francogrex [n=user@91.177.29.110] has joined #lisp 20:48:15 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229145189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 20:51:28 -!- sellout [n=greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 20:51:28 quite in here 20:52:03 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:26 quite 20:52:54 quite indeed 20:52:56 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:53:24 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:53:55 no problems to solve? 20:56:10 quiet is what you wanted i think 20:56:11 Tordek [n=tordek@19-0-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 20:56:55 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 20:57:46 ayrnieu [n=_ayrnieu@69.171.164.88] has joined #lisp 20:57:56 -!- ak701 [n=ak70@195.158.93.230] has left #lisp 20:58:03 francogrex: Do you want me to suggest problems for you to solve? I have plenty! 20:58:08 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 21:02:59 beach: are you sure they can be solved? :D 21:03:36 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 21:04:41 minion: memo for attila_lendvai: thanks for some patches you made to rfc2109 (years ago) to make it work with IE by default, you saved me some headache this afternoon once I realised the asdf install version was the reason it wasnt working in IE 21:04:41 Remembered. I'll tell attila_lendvai when he/she/it next speaks. 21:05:54 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:05:56 marioxcc [n=user@201.132.137.93] has joined #lisp 21:06:10 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:06:24 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:27 faux` [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:06:33 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 21:07:56 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:09:35 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:59 antoszka [n=antoszka@2001:6a0:14a:0:0:0:0:dada] has joined #lisp 21:10:39 -!- phf [n=user@host.icnfull.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:10:40 saikat__ [n=saikat@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:54 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:11:59 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 21:12:03 dlowe: Of course :) 21:12:19 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:12:22 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 21:13:12 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:13:43 -!- marioxcc [n=user@201.132.137.93] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:14:01 marioxcc [n=user@201.132.137.93] has joined #lisp 21:14:14 djkthx_ [n=yacin@lawn-143-215-206-166.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 21:14:19 marioxcc` [n=user@201.132.137.93] has joined #lisp 21:14:59 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.50.83] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:15:00 -!- marioxcc [n=user@201.132.137.93] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:15:04 -!- marioxcc` is now known as marioxcc 21:16:09 -!- rootzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["leaving"] 21:16:29 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@213.114.170.185] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:17:55 -!- djkthx [n=yacin@lawn-143-215-206-166.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:19:30 gonzojive [n=red@171.67.163.33] has joined #lisp 21:19:51 frito [n=user@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:59 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:22:24 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit ["leaving"] 21:23:26 hi 21:23:41 some body is using gbb-open? 21:24:23 -!- gonzojive [n=red@171.67.163.33] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25:41 -!- frito [n=user@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:26:00 frito [n=user@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:33 -!- frito [n=user@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:26:44 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-192-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:52 nha [n=prefect@vpn-epfl-a010.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 21:26:55 frito [n=user@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:03 -!- frito [n=user@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:28:28 frito [n=user@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:38 Ralith [n=ralith@d142-058-088-104.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:28:54 djkthx__ [n=yacin@lawn-143-215-206-166.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 21:30:13 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.177.29.110] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:30:29 good night 21:30:37 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has left #lisp 21:31:08 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06eb25.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["bye!"] 21:31:10 -!- frito [n=user@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:31:29 frito [n=user@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:32:54 -!- seangrove [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed 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[Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:38:59 rvirding [n=chatzill@h52n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:41:09 -!- mcdonji [n=mcdonji@S0106002369b86815.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:41:42 Anyone have any code handy for parsing roman numerals? 22:43:05 _YKY_ [i=YKY@n11649160092.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:27 <_YKY_> How to redirect command line input in Lisp? 22:44:06 dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:08 -!- rares [n=rares@VDSL-130-13-174-63.PHNX.QWEST.NET] has left #lisp 22:45:44 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:48:54 benny` [n=benny@i577A01AF.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:49:02 <_YKY_> Nevermind... I figured... 22:49:13 Cool. 22:50:15 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 22:53:17 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 22:54:49 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0B25.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:56:44 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:58:28 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177153198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 22:58:43 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:59:21 gonzojive [n=red@171.66.83.167] has joined #lisp 23:03:19 -!- chupish [i=182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-cgmomtqnieujcgby] has quit ["Page closed"] 23:03:54 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.98.34] has joined #lisp 23:04:01 -!- dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:06:36 jahmarley [n=kenan@88.238.214.83] has joined #lisp 23:08:19 i was wondering if the ui style of a allegro on linux is similar to windows one or is it using the interface style of linux 23:10:47 I've no idea what you mean by 'the interface style of linux', but http://www.franz.com/products/allegrocl/acl_gui_tools.lhtml says that it offers CLIM and GTK+. 23:10:47 marioxcc [n=user@201.132.137.93] has joined #lisp 23:11:39 i mean does the ide steel looks like a windows program or linux one :) 23:11:59 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:29 i mean does the ide still looks like a windows program or linux one :) 23:13:39 jahmarley: gtk is themeable :) 23:14:04 hmm, i see, thanks 23:15:18 and also, is there a place that i can learn more about the internal representations of objects, and more details about cons cell etc. i usually found the same, just an introduction about them 23:15:46 <_3b> check implementation docs or source 23:16:36 i'm sorry for asking you like asking google but i couldn't find really 23:16:51 _3b: thanks 23:17:22 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.86.241.8] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:18:03 <_3b> it is common for a lisp object to effectively be sort of a typed pointer + some extra data that it points to 23:19:00 <_3b> for example if you can align all data on 8 byte addresses, you can use the low 3 bits to store a type 23:19:03 I thought it was (which probably means that I read about it somewhere)... but I'm not really the most credible guy in that respect 23:19:16 jeti` [n=jeti@p548EFA4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:20 <_3b> *low 3 bits of a pointer to that data 23:19:56 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:20:01 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:20:21 <_3b> conses are common, so they probably have a bit patter dedicated to them, so the data for a cons could just be storage for 2 pointers 23:20:22 dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:46 <_3b> fixnums probably have 1 or 2 type allocated to them, with the number stored in place of the pointer instead of allocating any separate storage 23:21:48 _3b: i see, thanks 23:22:04 _3b: by the way you were working on a flash project if i'm not mistaken? 23:22:06 saikat__ [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:12 <_3b> right 23:22:29 -!- zxcn [n=Lain@cpe-71-67-96-133.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:22:29 *_3b* is sidetracked into webgl atm though 23:22:34 are you still on it? 23:22:41 hmm 23:23:02 <_3b> flash? that is what i'm supposed to be working on now, but i'm not actually, not sure if that is a yes or a no :p 23:24:00 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:18 :D 23:24:49 do you have a page for the flash project? 23:25:09 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:19 <_3b> not really, i released some code a long time ago, but i've been working on rewriting it and haven't quite gotten it releasable yet 23:25:58 <_3b> (it is close, mostly just cleanup at this point until it can replace the old code) 23:26:35 afaik it was a port to actionscript or maybe i'm mistaken this time :) 23:27:04 <_3b> mainly just need to make the .swf read/write lib not take forever to compile on sbcl, and finish removing the last uses of the old version of the compiler 23:27:16 <_3b> it compiles to avm bytecode, no actionscript involved 23:27:31 <_3b> (unless you want to call external flash libs, which is more or less supported) 23:29:10 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:31:52 -!- seangrove [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:32:09 would that help me create dynamic visualations using common lisp like in processing 23:32:20 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:32:57 <_3b> i haven't looked at processing closely enough to say... 23:36:09 -!- jeti [n=jeti@p548EFA08.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:36:19 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 23:36:22 it works on jvm and more like a scripting language, but it's very practical and that gives the opportunity to attract the sectors like design and architecture etc. but after meeting cl trying to code in other languages seem boring to me so it would be very nice to use cl via some libs for that matter :) 23:37:39 gigamonkey do you still need that code 23:38:16 <_3b> well, you have lots of vector graphics primitives, not much UI primitives, a bit of 3d, but you need to work for that 23:39:26 that seems kinda enough for starting :) can i find the sources someway? 23:40:17 <_3b> i would advise against using the avilable sources, since i changed how a bunch of stuff worked 23:40:25 <_3b> and the old version didn't work very well in a bunch fo ways anyway 23:40:51 it would be great if it works even for mostly primitives but i can wait :) 23:41:12 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:43:32 <_3b> i'll try to get something released at some point relatively soon, if i don't get too stuck on the webgl 23:43:46 <_3b> feel free to bug me about it here if you get impatient though :) 23:43:53 Guthur: not really. Thanks though. 23:44:30 i forgot about the IX etc case 23:44:32 _3b ok, i will, good luck :D 23:44:37 Actually I came up with a sort of neat hack/kludge. 23:44:43 was nice distraction anyway 23:44:54 mines uses IIII 23:45:08 not a massive change to get the edge case 23:45:26 gigamonkey pasted "Roman numeral parsing hack" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88262 23:45:54 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-14-246.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 23:46:02 <_3b> gigamonkey: heh, was just about to suggest that hack :) 23:46:37 http://paste.lisp.org/display/88263 23:47:04 i some how missed the auto post feature as well 23:47:12 Guthur: unless I'm missing something, your code is going the wrong direction. 23:47:15 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-101-69.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:47:31 oops 23:49:19 -!- mulander [i=opera@ext-83-2-139-196.interq.pl] has left #lisp 23:49:43 For that direction we have: (format t "~@r" num) 23:50:36 Or (format t "~:@r" num) if you want "IIII" instead of "IV". 23:51:07 -!- _icecube_ [n=icecube@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:52:09 i have IIII instead of IV 23:52:27 Right, that's what you get from (format t "~:@r" num) 23:52:30 the chart i have also has XC for 90 23:52:48 too much work for now, its bedtime hehe 23:53:09 Goodnight. 23:53:30 -!- gonzojive [n=red@171.66.83.167] has quit [] 23:54:20 night 23:54:24 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:54:24 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-132-170-158.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 23:54:58 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:55:04 -!- saikat__ is now known as saikat_ 23:56:10 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.134.99] has joined #lisp 23:56:59 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:57:29 Undead_Lisper [n=lispzomb@pool-173-76-29-230.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:53 -!- jeti` [n=jeti@p548EFA4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp