00:01:58 what is CLRS hw? 00:02:25 fusss: CLRS == A famous algorithms textbook 00:02:34 http://projects.csail.mit.edu/clrs/ 00:02:38 the MIT Algorithms book 00:02:42 Cormen, et al. 00:02:45 http://mbishop.esoteriq.org/stuff/books.txt 00:03:00 CLRS = Introduction to Algorithms, 2nd Edition by Thomas H. Cormen, Charles E. Leiserson, Ronald L. Rivest, and Cliff Stein 00:03:00 pepone [n=pepone@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:01 :P 00:03:11 for some reason I thought "hw" meant hardware, not _home work_ ;-) 00:03:41 redline6561: what can't you hack that in Lisp? I did :-) 00:03:45 -!- TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:03:48 CL-RS 00:04:14 Sadly, it means homework. It might not be as painful if my lecturer wasn't awful...and my math wasn't so rusty. 00:04:15 lispm: freakish merger of CL and Scheme ;-) 00:04:27 iiieh 00:04:46 redline6561: spoiled brat, i had to do it alone, in my spare time, during my breaks working at a restaurant 00:04:48 Common Lisp Revised Scheme 00:05:09 redline6561: up hill both ways 00:05:12 that would be an idea 00:05:20 *redline6561* grins 00:05:27 *rme* hopes never to solve another recurrence in his life 00:05:30 fusss: Thanks for the reminder. 00:05:31 lispm: just like CL, but with a clergy 00:05:43 rme: Really? You don't use that everyday? My goodness! 00:05:54 rme: Honestly though, it's quite comforting to hear you say that. 00:06:03 Common Lisp with Continuations 00:06:14 rme: recurrences in CLRS are contrived and poor. Concrete Mathematics has a far richer experience of them :-) 00:06:37 lispm: (asdf-install:install :arnesi) 00:06:38 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@78-69-144-82-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:06:46 real continuations 00:07:02 plus TCO 00:07:20 i would actually prefer ISLisp or prefix-dylan 00:07:47 plus hygienic macros 00:08:08 fusss: Thanks for the tip. Back to Knuth... 00:08:53 glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has joined #lisp 00:09:10 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2FC20.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ein guter Abgang ziert die Übung."] 00:10:39 -!- smolyn [n=smolyn@76.77.66.100] has quit [] 00:12:39 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-183.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 00:13:12 an interview with Adele Goldberg could be interesting 00:13:34 coliv [n=Coliveir@c-69-248-128-195.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:47 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:13:55 I would kill for C with hygienic macros (: 00:14:06 blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 00:14:37 I would kill for C to be killed 00:14:59 -!- glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:15:11 glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has joined #lisp 00:15:11 The lack of recursive expansion makes it less of a problem. 00:16:05 C is a necessary evil, at least until someone writes an open source, high performance kernel in something other than C. 00:16:07 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:30 It would probably be sufficient for { int i = i; ... } not to give i an undefined value. 00:16:38 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:16:39 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:16:44 blitz_ [n=blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 00:16:59 Zhivago: I wonder why they went with that rule. 00:17:15 My money is on drugs. 00:17:40 was it so that things like { void * i = &i; } would work? 00:18:23 Maybe for recursive functions. 00:18:49 lispm: I actually would like an interview with Monica Lam better :-) 00:19:20 who is that? 00:19:26 lispm: compiler hacker 00:19:54 SUIF and all that. 00:21:19 fusss_ [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:21:19 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 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[n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 00:33:49 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:33:57 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6DBDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:57 -!- male_terran [n=Male_Ter@ip98-162-159-132.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:35:06 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 00:35:29 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-039-220.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:36:30 -!- sykopomp|out [n=user@c-75-72-22-252.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:39:01 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:39:38 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:41:58 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@93-82-4-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:42:39 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:43:40 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-146.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:43:43 -!- jeti` [n=jeti@p548EFDFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 00:47:22 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:47:51 redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:29 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-183.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 00:51:14 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:51:30 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:51:46 aledge [n=aledge@c-98-216-104-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:10 hi 00:54:12 Mr_Nice [n=chatzill@c-67-183-237-58.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:50 hello 00:54:59 Howdy 00:56:33 -!- Mr_Nice [n=chatzill@c-67-183-237-58.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:57:12 i was wondering how people usually distribute lisp programs 00:57:41 is using asdf in your code reasonable? 00:58:15 <_3b> depends on to whom i was distributing (and licenses of code i used) 00:58:33 say i want to distribute a program in binary/src, gpl 00:58:46 and the end user knows little about lisp 00:58:50 if anything 00:58:51 <_3b> then ship a binary and source :p 00:59:22 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-73-96.netcologne.de] has quit [No route to host] 00:59:33 aledge: depends on the implementation, but you can usually compile a standalone binary. 00:59:47 sykopomp: that could be huge though, no? 00:59:47 and then provide a nice tutorial on how to use asdf if you want them to be able to use the source. 00:59:58 aledge: depends on the implementation, and they compress very very nicely. 01:00:19 sbcl binaries are 40-50mb, I think, but they compress down to like 10. 01:00:38 if you need small, then you can make one with clisp, and that's only about 5mb 01:00:44 <_3b> some lisps allow removing unused components from the executables (mostly commercial ones though) 01:00:49 both seem quite reasonable to me. 01:01:01 _3b: any lisp other than lispworks? Scieneer I think does, too? 01:01:12 sykopomp: i see, i'm more used to C I suppose where you would want to load lots of libraries dynamically 01:01:15 ikki [n=ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 01:01:25 <_3b> sykopomp: no idea, i mostly use sbcl and don't care about code size :) 01:01:32 aledge: in a perfect world, it would be easier to do that in lisp, too. 01:01:34 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A19D3.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:01:35 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-73-92-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:01:46 but alas, we live in unix land 01:01:56 <_3b> aledge: on some platforms, everyone just ships the dynamic libs with the binary anyway :) 01:02:09 <_3b> (in C/C++ apps) 01:02:17 aledge: you -can- distribute .fasl files for people to load into their lisp images, though. 01:02:19 -!- manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6DBDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 01:02:34 benny [n=benny@i577A19D3.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:02:36 that's true, but you potentially end up with duplicates 01:02:42 but in that case, you may as well just give them the source unless you want to hide it. 01:02:47 yeah 01:03:04 if you want something that Just Works, save-lisp-and-die is your friend. 01:03:28 hmmmm....hehe 01:04:00 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Saving-a-Core-Image.html I'm referring to this. 01:04:09 i figured as much 01:04:32 so basically there isn't a very good way to do it 01:04:37 that is 01:04:41 there isn't a standard, clean way 01:05:32 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bxbutpkmofsmullq] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:06:46 most image-dumping stuff is fairly similar. 01:06:53 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 01:07:03 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:07:05 so you can write stuff to dump from various implementations easily enough. 01:07:18 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 01:07:47 <_3b> wel, it isn't like there is a 'standard' way to make an executable in C either :) 01:08:04 i guess not, i'm trying to think about how it's done... 01:08:05 well i mean 01:08:11 you put the libraries in a place 01:08:17 there is a global path for shared libraries 01:08:30 i guess the difference is that *nix supports c better than lisp 01:08:38 <_3b> C doesn't require places or paths, you could be compiling for some weird embedded target 01:08:42 <_3b> right 01:09:28 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177125061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:09:30 the problem is when i thkn about how i would distribute a program to linux, os x, and windows 01:09:38 i guess you'd include the libraries on windows 01:10:03 or just compile everything in 01:10:29 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:10:45 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:10:56 girzel [n=user@123.121.212.187] has joined #lisp 01:11:54 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[n=dagnache@modemcable230.220-179-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:25:00 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:10 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@host-243-188.pubnet.pdx.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:30:29 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:31:12 chavo_ [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:54 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:39:20 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 02:40:32 c|mell [n=cmell@KD124213182069.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:41:20 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:48:58 Aszarsha_ [n=aszarsha@88-122-114-66.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:42 -!- glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has left #lisp 02:55:24 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 02:55:31 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:58:11 perplexing weird bug in clsql. On win32, class-name is fine, but on unix it required class_name. 02:58:51 (defun sql-name (lisp-name) 02:58:53 (intern (substitute #\_ #\- (symbol-name lisp-name)))) 02:58:55 (defun lisp-name (sql-name) 02:58:56 (intern (substitute #\- #\_ (symbol-name lisp-name)))) 02:59:17 i can't believe i have to invert the table names whenever testing on the other platform 02:59:54 i can always rename my SQL tables to CLASSNAME and remove the hyphenation, but fuck! 03:00:14 shit, there is my bug right there! in lisp-name 03:01:37 chavo_ [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:56 lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-255-127.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:31 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-8-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:04:13 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@c-76-124-82-88.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:05:45 fusss: ...where was 'lisp-name bound? 03:05:54 no where 03:06:04 that should be a compile error then O.o 03:06:10 or a warning* 03:06:11 -!- Aszarsha [n=aszarsha@91-164-132-13.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:06:53 fuck, i built a tower of babel over clsql 03:07:23 gonna maintain a search-replace form of my project for each platform until the weekend :-( 03:07:31 s/form/fork/ 03:09:03 Demosthenes [n=demo@c-76-124-82-88.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:06 clsql-myql is ripe for postmodernization 03:12:30 it's safe to prototype with clsql and build something quick, but after that, you really need something more robust 03:12:44 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.214.83] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 03:14:03 pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:04 -!- lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-221-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:19:43 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-67-155.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:23:28 ' 03:25:43 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:17 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@c-76-124-82-88.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:35:52 fusss_ [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:36:56 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:37:04 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 03:41:58 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:42:22 Demosthenes [n=demo@c-76-124-82-88.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:16 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 03:45:58 Any recommendations for a good first lisp library to read? Preferably somewhat small but demonstrating good lisp style and good use of CLOS. 03:46:31 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.229.166] has joined #lisp 03:46:55 if you want to learn good lisp style, check out PAIP 03:48:02 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.170.129] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:48:35 sykopomp: Thankfully I have a copy on the shelf as well as a PDF copy. I was thinking a library though. Maybe something off cliki? 03:48:44 redline6561: edi's libraries are great to study 03:48:48 other than that, everyone's lisp style is pretty different. 03:48:55 edi is good, yeah 03:49:01 weitz.de <-- 03:49:22 arbscht: I figured there would be an ediware plug. Ah, where to begin. :) 03:49:28 *redline6561* wanders to weitz.d 03:49:50 try drakma! 03:50:11 sykopomp: Will do. Thanks. 03:50:55 Xach's code is pretty easy to follow, too. 03:51:37 pinterface: Thanks. Any particular place you'd start? 03:51:38 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.214.83] has joined #lisp 03:51:56 *redline6561* supposes the rule is: whatever looks interesting 03:54:52 Pretty much. :) ZS3's the one I've dealt with the most. 03:55:55 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-29-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:57 lpolzer_ [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-246-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:05 pinterface: In my .site, ZS3 looks kind of big. I think I'll try tackling Salza2 first. :) 03:59:56 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:01:04 redline6561: Hey, whatever works! 04:02:05 -!- lmr [n=lemurian@unaffiliated/lemurian] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:02:32 pinterface: Thanks. 04:04:31 redline6561: what application domains are you interested in? 04:05:08 -!- girzel [n=user@123.121.212.187] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:07:37 sykopomp: did you go to the tclisp meeting? how was it? 04:07:48 fusss: Err...right now, I'm only using lisp for scripting. At some point, I'd like to expand on what ahefner has done with mixalot but move towards sampling and livecoding. 04:08:38 fusss: I'm going to have to get more comfortable with CFFI though and at some point...read about acoustics or audio analysis, fourier transforms, etc, I presume. 04:09:16 redline6561: read everything you can get your hands on 04:09:32 erg: very small this week. All but one of the SIFT people were still at work. 04:09:33 if you're interested in crypto, Ironclad is beautiful 04:10:01 meeting felt a bit ad-hoc, but it was nice. Got to talk to people and stuff, it wasn't crowded, etc. 04:10:01 fusss: That's the idea. Thanks! :) 04:10:14 fusss: it also takes half an hour to compile on SBCL! :( 04:10:46 fusss: Also, I suspect the math would be over my head for Ironclad at this point. Hopefully one day I'll know what's going on and enjoy the read. 04:11:06 erg: also, it looks like I'm gonna be presenting at the next meeting. 04:14:14 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:45 -!- lpolzer [n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-255-127.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:14:49 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:15:35 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 04:16:21 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:16:30 -!- Aszarsha_ [n=aszarsha@88-122-114-66.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:18:08 fuck clsql, use rdbms or postmodern or perec 04:18:23 manardb \o/ 04:20:35 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 04:21:21 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 04:21:36 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-73-92-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:27:54 sykopomp: i'll go for that 04:28:11 erg: it's a bit terrifying 04:28:13 :\ 04:28:24 i hadnt done a presentation in five years 04:29:08 sykopomp: it's a tough crowd -- typical lispers 04:29:17 hey now 04:29:23 the crowd we had today was quite agreeable. 04:29:33 there's a couple of people at that meeting that bite down and don't let go, though. 04:29:40 I wouldn't say it's typical, though. 04:29:59 i looked at the code examples -- it's so much nicer in factor. they need a with-destructors combinator because the example could leak resources 04:30:25 example for? 04:30:30 in the slides 04:30:30 oh, you mean the cffi thing. 04:30:49 I think there's a lot that could've been better about the talk, tbh ;) 04:31:43 no doubt 04:31:58 it was nice nonetheless. The talk ended up lasting like 15 minutes 04:32:04 the rest was talking about all sorts of other stuff. 04:33:49 Cliff Click gives a mean presentation. he gave the audience a choice of four possible talks and we got to vote at the JVM summit 04:34:24 uh okay 04:34:25 I guess. 04:35:00 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-6-129.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:35:03 Good morning 04:36:29 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-84-210.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 04:36:38 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:37:38 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.214.83] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 04:37:46 ak70````` [n=user@195.158.89.22] has joined #lisp 04:38:55 erg: is anyone else from the factor crowd planning on going next time? 04:39:46 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.229.166] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:39:48 sykopomp: maybe, depends on the talks i guess. we could get a beer whenever really and avoid the overpriced food 04:40:48 -!- ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:41:10 man, no kidding 04:41:13 that place is ridiculous 04:41:21 $14 tacos 04:41:59 $8 cheese sandwich :| 04:42:38 Note to self: Don't attend TC Lispers meeting on empty stomach. 04:42:58 pinterface: the meeting's at 6pm, too! 04:43:04 6-8ish 04:43:07 happy hour ends at 6pm 04:43:20 you can arrive early and score a couple cheaper pints 04:43:28 yeah 04:45:28 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.128.221.159] has joined #lisp 04:46:05 Eh. Bit long of a drive for me, anyway (3.5 hrs, and still the closest one I know of!). 04:47:35 _jason3985 [n=thot@59.105.27.43] has joined #lisp 04:49:50 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-58-28-152.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:53:22 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-135-89.bflony.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:54:32 -!- ak70```` [n=user@195.158.89.22] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:59:11 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:05:15 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:06:16 -!- male_terran [n=Male_Ter@ip98-162-159-132.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:09:15 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:14:37 -!- _jason3985 [n=thot@59.105.27.43] has quit [] 05:16:35 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:17:29 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:20:11 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:20:11 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A19D3.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:20:57 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-198-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:10 -!- jhalogen [n=jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:22:35 jhalogen [n=jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:24:22 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-3-220.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:24 -!- jhalogen [n=jake@cpe-98-154-251-83.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:28:08 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 05:28:36 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest6576 05:28:36 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.128.221.159] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:34:02 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:40:45 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-29-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:41:34 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-14-211.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:41:34 -!- KingNatoG5_ is now known as KingNatoG5 05:41:44 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@KD124213182069.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:44:30 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:49:03 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host65.190-228-244.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:49:50 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:45 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-17.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:57:38 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:00:42 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:02:48 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:04:00 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:04:43 he336 06:04:52 hello* 06:04:56 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.34] has quit ["off"] 06:05:00 <_3b> does current slime not try to call fdefinition on unFBOUND symbols while inspecting them? 06:06:06 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:06:07 <_3b> (in other words, does C-c I :foo RET work 06:09:47 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-6-129.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 06:10:53 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:13:29 <_3b> ah, nevermind, i seem to have loaded an annoying library that breaks things :( 06:13:58 <_3b> and cl-cont devs around? 06:14:49 elderK [n=zk@222-152-88-21.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:14:49 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:15:29 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:18:28 fusss_ [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:18:28 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:18:30 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 06:21:28 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 06:23:21 -!- yoonkn_ [n=yoonkn@112.169.40.70] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:27:16 Tordek [n=tordek@186.124.175.156] has joined #lisp 06:28:05 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 06:30:14 is anyone else interested in a CFFI for libmemcached? 06:30:34 socket based cl-memcached is just not cutting it for me 06:30:59 freiksenet [n=freiksen@193.166.13.253] has joined #lisp 06:31:03 cffi-memcached will probably break all benefits of distributed caching 06:31:46 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@84-72-45-92.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [] 06:32:32 Hi! I am trying out lispbuilder-sdl but i have one problem. I tried the example from main page but "with-events" macro give me an error "The name of the lambda variable NIL is already in use to name a constant.". %) what am I doing wrong? 06:33:48 levy [n=levy@apn-94-44-16-221.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 06:34:32 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 06:34:39 <_3b> freiksenet: 'main page' on the code.google.com/p/lispbuilder site? 06:35:04 yes 06:35:54 *_3b* grumbles about libs breaking things to the point other libs won't even compile :/ 06:36:19 jó reggelt 06:36:55 so it is broken? :( 06:37:04 <_3b> dunno, i can't compile it atm 06:37:14 <_3b> (unless you mean cl-cont, in which case yes) 06:37:20 KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 06:37:30 _3b: Write em a friendly (sic) e-mail about the matter :) 06:37:43 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 06:38:02 well it compiles and some default examples work. this one does not :( 06:38:04 <_3b> tcr: i don't even have any idea who "'em" is (without looking it up), though i probably will eventually 06:38:26 so it's dependency of a dependency? 06:38:27 <_3b> so far they have broken slime and lispbuilder-sdl though, in the space of about half an hour 06:38:45 <_3b> dependency of something i downloaded at random 06:38:46 mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-237.iasi.cablelink.ro] has joined #lisp 06:39:01 they broke slime? 06:39:32 <_3b> yep, they put an around method on cl:documentation that assumes everything passed to it is fbound 06:39:44 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:39:51 <_3b> (the eql function method specifically) 06:40:14 Heh. Strictly speaking, you're not allowed to do that 06:40:16 <_3b> spec doean't require that as far as i could see, and slime doesn't check it 06:40:31 <_3b> what, the around method, or assuming things incorrectly? 06:40:53 around method on standardized methods 06:41:23 <_3b> well, i could accept them relying on implementation specific behavior for odd cases like that if they didn't break things in the process :) 06:41:25 iirc it's not put that strongly, and eql-specializer may be an exception 06:41:54 I do the same in named-readtables; adding an :around method on print-object specializing on readtables. Clisp, so far, is the only one who correctly signals a package-lock violation 06:42:35 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:42:55 In practise, Lisp-in-Lisp implementations just do the right thing, and Lisp-In-Non-Lisp implementations just do not take up the around method because the method is actually implemented in the native language 06:42:58 <_3b> freiksenet: were you getting an error in compilation or runtime? 06:43:30 <_3b> freiksenet: seems to work here, at least it gets to the point of failing to load the image 06:43:39 <_3b> freiksenet: not current code though, let me update... 06:44:06 mmm, I used C-c C-k 06:44:13 so compilation 06:44:22 <_3b> it didn't make a window though, right? 06:44:31 hmm, eval actually works 06:44:37 ,,, 06:44:42 yeah, compilation just fails 06:45:42 _3b: so why compilation fails? 06:46:05 <_3b> ah, actually, i get that error too, it just doesnt stop eval/repl from running it anyway 06:46:13 free_thinker [n=willijar@134.151.144.246] has joined #lisp 06:46:37 -!- Guest6576 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 06:47:24 _3b: funny thing - when I compile my whole system it works without any problem 06:47:30 <_3b> compilation is more noticeable, since slime doesn't load the compiled code if compilation returns an error 06:47:51 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.79.64] has joined #lisp 06:48:04 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 06:50:46 _3b: okay, so what can i do to fix it? is it a bug in their code? 06:51:16 <_3b> not sure yet, looking like their bug though 06:54:31 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 06:55:24 <_3b> ah, add a () between :video-expose-event and (sdl:update-display) 06:56:53 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 06:58:00 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:58:18 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:58:31 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has joined #lisp 06:58:39 good morning 06:58:43 <_3b> freiksenet: if that works, you might also send a note to their mailing list about it 06:59:24 <_3b> freiksenet: well, i guess even if it doesn't work, mailing list would be next thing to try anyway :) 07:01:28 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:03:00 hectorh30 [n=hector@200.49.162.39] has joined #lisp 07:03:30 -!- hectorh30 [n=hector@200.49.162.39] has left #lisp 07:05:08 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host56.190-138-159.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 07:07:33 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:08:07 htk__ [n=htk___@95.65.241.69] has joined #lisp 07:08:43 xan-afk_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:09:31 lispm [n=joswig@e177125061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:10:02 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@186.124.175.156] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:12:45 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:12:56 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:15:50 -!- setheus [n=setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:17:23 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-156.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:19:50 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 07:20:42 gko [n=gko@114-137-124-115.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:00 -!- xan-afk [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:23:48 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:26:20 _3b: thanks, I'll do it 07:26:26 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 07:26:32 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-84-210.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:27:31 _3b: it works, thanks a lot :) I'll send them a note. 07:27:49 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 07:28:44 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@193.166.13.253] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:29:07 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:29:41 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 07:29:45 Fufie [n=poff@80.203.160.34] has joined #lisp 07:30:57 boyscare1 [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:37 divisionbell [n=kenan@78.172.78.92] has joined #lisp 07:31:48 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:32:06 -!- deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:35:37 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229111180.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:37:12 kami-` [n=user@dslb-084-059-210-016.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:22 good morning 07:38:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:38:14 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:38:46 Cutting edge, Open Source, High Quality: choose two. 07:38:46 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:38:47 -!- boyscare1 is now known as boyscared 07:39:07 levy: I think I have the first use case for a dimensional association 07:39:18 i have been through 3 buggy memcached libraries, including the flagship libmemcached one for C and C++ 07:39:29 High Edge 07:40:24 rolling out my own database caching thing using hashtables 07:40:57 whoppix [n=whoppix@1x-193-157-192-122.uio.no] has joined #lisp 07:41:15 all my keys are the princ-to-string concatenation of three arguments: type, slot-name, and value. kicks ass. 07:41:45 nothing like seeing SQL traces disappear after one interaction :-) but cache invalidation will be hell 07:41:51 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:42:16 *coyo* randomly nomds fusss 07:42:20 *noms 07:42:42 some of the objects are returned in two forms, via LIST-OBJECT-WHERE and FIND-OBJECT-BY, the same object could be cached as a member of a set in the former, but when cached, a later fetch of the object and subsequent update will leave the former still intact. 07:42:49 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 07:43:46 ASau [n=user@host207-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6DBDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:55 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@125.236.55.43] has joined #lisp 07:54:08 Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has joined #lisp 07:56:45 freiksenet: what is broken in lispbuilder-sdl? 07:56:48 kami-`, well, we have dimensional tree in production 07:56:57 meaning that the parent-child relationship is dimensional 07:57:15 \o/ 07:57:22 actually it is multi dimensional 07:57:31 _zero_ database access after just an hour of hacking :-) 07:58:28 how do i check the memory occupied by an object in sbcl 07:58:28 yay! 07:59:13 brb, celebratory cigarette break 07:59:23 <_3b> Balooga: missing () in the example 07:59:43 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-156.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:59:52 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:10 _3b: Fixed, thanks. 08:05:00 _3b: A little embarrassing. 08:05:28 <_3b> Balooga: :) 08:09:11 fusss_ [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:09:12 <_3b> Balooga: maybe with-events could/should be a bit stricter about the event arglists? 08:10:05 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:10:08 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 08:10:33 _3b: It used to be. But I rewrote it a couple of weeks ago in 1/3 of the code. 08:11:07 _3b: I haven't added the checks back yet. 08:11:32 <_3b> ah, guess you will just have to be careful 'til then :) 08:15:19 -!- htk__ [n=htk___@95.65.241.69] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:16:22 fusss_ [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:16:28 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:16:34 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 08:17:25 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:19:02 levy: I have an entity, which can have multiple prices. Currently, I have created a slot with (set price). The price can vary over time (starting Sep 1, the price increased by 30 Euro), or the price for some particular customers can be lower or higher. First, to model the time variability, I'd use :dimension time on the association between the entity and its price, correct? 08:19:39 rickardg [n=user@c-4e7271d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:19:59 kami-`, is price an entity or a number? 08:20:06 levy: an entity 08:20:25 serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06f7df.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:28 good morning 08:20:34 kami-`, do you want to model the future of the price? 08:20:35 good morning serichsen 08:20:46 levy: past and future 08:20:57 kami-`, then use dimension validity 08:21:08 kami-`, it's like the time dimension but a slightly different api 08:21:11 again, how do i check the memory footprint of an object in SBCL, if not portably? 08:21:52 *kami-`* searches the dimensional test cases 08:21:55 (let ((object (make-object))) (progn (sb-ext:gc t) (room) (setf object nil)(sb-ext:gc t) (room))) 08:22:11 (with-validity-range "2008" "2009" (setf (price-of product) (make-instance 'price :amount 10))) 08:23:04 levy: of what type are the arguments to w-v-r? 08:23:10 fusss, allocate a few million and check room 08:23:32 matimago: that's hilarious, I gotta say. 08:23:32 kami-`, timestamps, or partial time specifications as strings 08:23:46 Doesn't it work? 08:23:51 kami-`, begin is inclusive, end is exclusive 08:24:14 fuss:: Maybe use the profiling tools which can determine memory usage and time taken on a function call/ 08:24:18 levy: there is sb-kernel:dynamic-usage, sb-vm:memory-usage, and sb-vm:map-allocated-objects 08:24:28 kami-`, (with-validity-range "2008" "2009" (values *validity-begin* *validity-end*)) 08:24:35 free_thinker: it's not a function i need to profile but a hash-table's site 08:24:39 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@1x-193-157-192-122.uio.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:24:40 the specials hold the range parameters 08:25:05 matimago: does (gc t) actually guarantee a full garbage collection? 08:26:03 sykopomp: GC is not in the standard 08:26:10 -!- a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:26:25 fusss: I'm asking about sbcl, of course. There's nothing wrt any memory management in the standard afaik 08:26:35 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:26:38 alright 08:26:40 brb 08:26:53 (huggle (get-irc-nick "levy") (get-irc-network "irc://irc.freenode.net/lisp") 08:26:55 fusss: creating an object is a function call - all techniques such as room etc require function calls. 08:26:56 I seem to remember someone saying that (gc t) might mean "do a full gc", but it still didn't make any guarantees about actually collecting anything. 08:27:06 it may have been in a different implementation, maybe? 08:27:30 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-84-210.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 08:27:33 ok. then (sb-ext:gc :full t) 08:27:39 (gc t) must be in clisp. 08:27:45 levy pasted "memory footprint" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87547 08:28:03 sorry, :full t 08:28:14 even (sb-ext:gc :gen 1000 :full t) 08:28:30 By default gen is 0 so it doesn't collect anything? 08:28:32 fusss, see paste 08:28:34 free_thinker: i was hoping to be able to take the "sizeof" of an object in intervals and see its rate of growth to reason about it better. the object is a database cache and its updated from the entire code base. 08:28:56 fusss: perhaps it's a hash-table? 08:29:01 clhs hash-table-count 08:29:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_hash_1.htm 08:29:04 perhaps it's a vector? 08:29:10 clhs length 08:29:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_length.htm 08:29:12 etc.. 08:29:25 matimago: the hash-table values are ANY lisp object, including LARGE lists 08:29:48 fusss: ensure the updates go through a single function and profile that - it is what I do. 08:30:25 free_thinker: i know that much, but this is a caching solution i tacked on top of an existing codebase 08:30:31 fusss, there is also http://dwim.hu/file/hu.dwim.wui/source/util/object-size.lisp 08:32:47 levy: wow 08:33:37 Is there anything DWIM doesn't have? 08:33:37 what an elaborate piece of code; i didn't think it would take that much code walking! 08:33:53 dwim even has its own lisppaste clone! 08:34:01 qebab [i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 08:34:17 pinterface, dwim only has what I mean ;-) 08:34:45 -!- Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has quit ["My damn controlling terminal disappeared!"] 08:34:46 fusss, it's not a past, it's a file in one of our project, see the url 08:34:56 not that a pastebin would be more than 3 lines of code 08:35:13 but read-eval and intern are evil 08:35:30 levy: how many of you are there? 3 lispers? 08:35:41 -!- gko [n=gko@114-137-124-115.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:35:50 fusss, 3, 2 of them are working only half time 08:35:58 and we have production systems to manage too 08:36:48 total cl revenue so far is about 500k USD 08:37:35 not bad 08:37:41 in hungary? 08:38:19 wow, if this is eastern europe they should rename the country Wellfed. 500k is nice there :-) 08:38:19 lispm, yes, we are all hungarians 08:38:28 brb 08:38:39 whoppix [n=whoppix@1x-193-157-192-122.uio.no] has joined #lisp 08:38:54 but you weren't at the ECLM? 08:39:00 is there a way to make cffi-grovel automatically figure out constants? 08:39:02 fusss, we've been started more than 3 years ago, with no lisp experience 08:39:10 fusss: Wellfed <-> Hungary? Pun intended? 08:39:14 revenue started 1 and a half year ago 08:39:35 fusss_ [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:39:37 lispm, we were not there, but we were at ELS 08:39:38 what made you use CL? 08:39:51 lispm, Java ;-) 08:40:14 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:40:18 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 08:40:22 lispm, all three of us were working on Intentional Programming for a couple of years 08:41:08 levy: did Simonyi come back to Hungary or is Intentsoft based somewhere else? 08:41:13 I still have to do C++ and Java in my other half time, which is such a headache 08:41:31 levy: and how old is he? 08:41:32 kami-`, Intentsoft development is mostly done in Hungary 08:41:45 levy: is Kiczales also a Hungarian? 08:41:49 60 or the like 08:42:34 kami-`, Kiczales is not hungarian, unfortunately when I was arriving he already left, but attila did meet him at IP 08:43:05 and from Intentional Programming you detected Lisp? 08:43:08 levy: so 'Do What I Mean' is a logical extension of working on Intentional Programming, isn't it ? :) 08:43:11 lispm, BTW we were kind of hesitating between CL and scheme when started 08:43:26 but we turned to CL because of SBCL and SLIME 08:43:45 at that time there was no such good free tools for scheme, I don't know if that changed since then 08:43:52 depends 08:43:59 kami-`, yes, you are right 08:44:42 levy: afaik, nothing like SBCL and SLIME exists in the scheme world. DrScheme has some niceness to it, but it's not SLIME. 08:45:08 Riastradh wrote some slime integration code for scheme48 08:45:19 sykopomp, my biggest problem with DrScheme was that it is not stateful in the sense that you run your program each time from an empty state 08:45:31 as opposed to SLIME's highly dynamic and incremental development 08:45:48 yes, I hate that, too 08:46:05 it's pretty hard to match SLIME's level of interactivity, yeah :) 08:46:16 but that's fine by me, seeing as I love SLIME and CL 08:46:17 ;) 08:46:39 I often find myself writing small code fragments in the repl and pasting it into the source 08:46:58 well, CCL and MCL are a bit better in some respects 08:47:05 I used to say that the repl is the most important infinite loop ever invented 08:47:31 so, anyone here know if CFFI-Grovel can auto-define constants? 08:47:40 it looks like you have to manually write out constants? :( 08:49:26 levy: can I have a 2-dimensional price matrix with validity as one dimension and 'price-modifier-mixin' objects as the other dimension? 08:49:34 hugod_ [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441929.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:49:58 -!- xan-afk_ is now known as xan 08:49:59 schemer999 [n=schemer9@76.89.231.7] has joined #lisp 08:50:17 levy: e.g. if you want to buy something, I'll make a special price for you. 'You' is in this case an instance of the entity PERSON 08:50:39 kami-`, you can as long as the other dimension is also a persistent class 08:51:12 levy: can I have a price for T (the default) and another for levy? 08:51:22 Summermute66 [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:28 levy: no, T is not a persistent-class 08:51:38 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:52:04 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 08:52:10 kami-`, you can't :) unless there's a default customer, but there's no fallback mechanism for discrete dimensions 08:52:16 there's no ordering defined on them 08:52:39 lharc [n=shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 08:52:40 for example, the time dimension is different from the validity dimension in that respect 08:53:16 and of course you can only have one inheriting dimension in a multi dimensional setting 08:53:44 kami-`, when using dimensional stuff you should also know that it is not optimized (yet) for huge amounts of data 08:53:59 kami-`, each setf slot-value will either issue an update or an insert 08:54:40 each slot-value will either return the value from cache or execute a select for all rows matching the provided coordinates (along the dimensions) and merge the result into a d-value 08:55:24 the cache is incremental in the sense that it merges subsequent results, so later queries in the same transaction can be answered from it 08:55:41 -!- dwh [n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:55:57 levy: the dimensional values which are used are quite small. If you fetch all values at once from the DB and then process them locally, I won't have a big performance penalty, I guess 08:55:58 kami-`, wui have some nice dimensional meta gui components, but I obviously not yet ported those 08:56:19 ok, it was just an assert 08:56:33 levy: this was my next question :) How do you present such a slot to the user? (one with validity as dimension) 08:56:53 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442325.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:56:54 -!- hugod_ is now known as hugod 08:57:08 kami-`, the meta gui is not there yet, but there are many generic ways to do it (at least in principle) 08:57:20 levy: one validity-start timestamp field, one validity-end, and the value itself? 08:57:35 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:57:48 the simplest is this: you have a component in the hierarchy that sets the coordinates so that each value below it turns out to be non-dimensional 08:57:59 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:58:18 of course you can put up a table with listing the values with the coordinates along the dimensions 08:58:28 obviously merging the coordinates when the value is the same 08:58:34 or you can draw nice charts 08:58:59 we are using the simple solution above in the production environment 08:59:18 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-156.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:59:32 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-156.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 09:00:07 -!- prxq__ is now known as prxq 09:00:07 -!- coyo is now known as coyo[dreamingOfL 09:00:25 -!- coyo[dreamingOfL is now known as coyo 09:01:10 levy: when creating a new price, the user wants to be able to specify its validity. So, it would be probably best, if the editor would be wrapped in a component with validity-start and -end slots 09:01:30 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:01:58 the meta gui's editor for dimensional slots would certainly do that 09:02:13 look at the dimensions, put up selectors for coordinates, etc. 09:02:33 so the user can specify in what coordinate range she means that value 09:03:19 _jason2495 [n=thot@59-105-27-43.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has joined #lisp 09:03:46 simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:03:56 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:05 levy: great. I will refactor my price association to get a feeling for how it works. 09:04:08 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:06:26 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:06:52 kami-`, you can find examples in the test suite how to iterate along a dimensional value and get the biggest coordinate ranges so that the value is not dimensional anymore 09:07:26 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 09:08:07 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 09:08:09 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@1x-193-157-192-122.uio.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:08:16 blandest [n=user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 09:08:33 rstandy` [n=rastandy@net-93-144-73-139.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 09:09:10 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 09:14:44 BigBen1 [n=bigben@78.150.255.182] has joined #lisp 09:17:34 ignas_ [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 09:18:20 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:19:41 -!- rickardg [n=user@c-4e7271d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:23:20 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-127-196.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:25:31 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:26:22 deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 09:28:43 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:29:36 -!- _jason2495 [n=thot@59-105-27-43.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has quit [] 09:34:26 manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6FF97.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:26 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-167-118.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:34:37 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:36:42 I wonder how many people actually use plain symbols as function designators, instead of #'function 09:39:08 sykopomp: since the semantics are different, that question is meaningless... 09:39:43 matimago: it's a style question. 09:40:02 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@125.236.55.43] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:40:08 as to how many people prefer doing (mapcar '+ list) instead of (mapcar #'+ list) 09:40:18 at the repl, I use sometimes 'x instead of (function x). But not in source files. 09:40:18 it depends on what you want to do. 09:40:50 tic: for passing named functions to higher-order functions, really. 09:40:58 On the other hand, in the case of emacs lisp, (and while there (function x) and (quote x) are identical), I use 'x for hooks, because that's what the semantics calls for. 09:42:10 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:42:36 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-156.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:42:39 tcr: what's with the long font-lock pauses in SLIME HEAD? 09:42:39 I've been warming up to using 'foo instead of #'foo when passing stuff around, including :key/:test, etc. 09:42:51 and I know I've seen it in other people's code before 09:43:57 fusss_ [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:43:58 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:43:59 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 09:44:40 sykopomp: a matter of specificity, #'foo says "look, I'm passing you a function", 'foo says "I'm passing you a symbol, you decide what to do with it" 09:44:57 -!- blandest [n=user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:45:23 which could be any of looking at the symbol-value, -function, -name, plist, ... 09:46:18 michaelw: but it's pretty obvious when dealing with higher-order functions. 09:46:20 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:46:29 you're passing a designator. 09:46:33 not the value of the symbol. 09:46:34 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:46:56 sykopomp: so, what is :test 'eql in make-hash-table, then? 09:47:43 QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:47:52 michaelw: it makes an EQL hash table. 09:48:04 but why not #'eql? 09:48:04 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:48:07 rudi [n=rudi@mail.ist.tu-graz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 09:48:22 'eql is nicer to type, ofc, and it's just as expressive, imo. 09:48:25 sykopomp: that's not what I asked for 09:48:26 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 09:48:48 michaelw: what did you ask for? 09:48:48 (defun f () 1) (defun g (f) (funcall f)) (flet ((f () 2)) (list (g (function f)) (g (quote f)))) --> (2 1) ; which do you mean? 09:49:31 oh, that's a good point. 09:50:42 Now, in the case of make-hash-table it could be argued that 'eql is better, since it wouldn't work (portably) with another function than the toplevel eq, eql, equal or equalp. 09:51:36 matimago: right; nor is just a comparison function enough, you need a hash function which matches, too 09:51:40 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6DBDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:52:00 'x has also the advantage that if you change the fdefinition of x, chances are that the new function will be called, while with (function x), it's always the same old definition that will be used. 09:52:19 so, :test is actually a designator for two functions 09:52:57 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-84-210.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:53:07 *Xof* is surprised 09:53:15 On the other hand, you may want to keep the old function even if it changes. (mapcar (function f) big-list) in presence of threads would be better than (mapcar (quote f) big-list) where a different function would be applied on the elements if another thread redefines f... 09:53:30 (or perhaps not, depending on the implementation of mapcar...) 09:53:36 I was about to point out the wrinkle in matimago's example with (flet (((setf foo) () 2)) ...) 09:53:49 -!- QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:53:53 but somewhat to my surprise, sbcl lets (funcall '(setf foo)) through, even though I think it's unportable 09:54:15 And wouldn't (setf foo) need at least one argument? (the new value). 09:54:50 only if you use it in a setf form 09:55:02 you can (funcall #'(setf foo)) with no trouble 09:55:07 it's non-portable, yeah. 09:55:18 QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #lisp 09:55:39 clhs says it must be either a symbol denoting a global function or a function. 09:55:43 no cons allowed! 09:56:33 adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has joined #lisp 09:56:42 Yes, it would have to be an "extended function designator" to accept (portably) a (setf x). 09:58:38 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 09:59:14 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 10:00:28 -!- kerimbasol_ [n=kerim@85.107.158.2] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 10:02:45 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:03:06 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-42.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:03:20 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:03:22 hkBst 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[n=user@dslb-084-059-210-016.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:52:18 joswig [n=joswig@e177150197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:53:26 pam0 [n=pam0@mail2.siscog.pt] has joined #lisp 10:53:47 hi 10:55:37 in CFFI: I have an array of structures, not array of pointers pointing to a struct 10:55:37 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:55:46 as foreign-slot-value expects a pointer 10:56:07 adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has joined #lisp 10:56:18 so when I do (foreign-slot-value (mem-ref array 'struct index) 'struct 'type) 10:56:32 then that mem-ref is the object, not a pointer to the object 10:59:35 -!- _jason9897 [n=thot@59-105-27-43.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has quit [] 11:00:29 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:01:03 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177125061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:01:10 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.79.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:02:21 -!- joswig [n=joswig@e177150197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 11:03:01 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:03:32 adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has joined #lisp 11:04:02 is there anything in the cl spec that states what happens when incf/defc/push/pushnew/pop/remf receive a values place? 11:04:03 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:04:12 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.79.64] has joined #lisp 11:04:46 Tek3|Eregrith [n=nnscript@sd-16241.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 11:05:07 ole3 [n=user@62.96.71.236] has joined #lisp 11:05:48 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:05:55 fgtech [n=fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 11:05:59 freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 11:08:26 is lisp pastebin down? 11:08:38 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-71-184-223-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:09:47 (let ((a 1) (b 2)) (incf (values a b))) what's this supposed to do and return? 11:09:50 clhs 5.1.2.3 11:09:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/05_abc.htm 11:09:55 adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has joined #lisp 11:10:21 it'll return 2, i think 11:12:11 stassats: but that section only talks about setf, not the modifier macros 11:12:14 chls 5.1.3 11:12:18 clhs 5.1.3 11:12:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/05_ac.htm 11:12:51 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-186-242.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:13:24 so my question is: should they support multiple value places? if so, what should they do? if not, what error should they raise (if any)? 11:15:09 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:15:30 -!- pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:17:02 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:17:03 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:17:07 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-98-108.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:17:16 adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has joined #lisp 11:17:33 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6FF97.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 11:17:37 freiksenet pasted "macroneeded" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87551 11:17:57 So i have this kind of code. I want to write macro to remove wall of "points" 11:18:19 why macro? 11:18:45 mm, well Siebel had macro in similar situation in PCL 11:19:07 and why not? then I can write "with-points" for example 11:19:56 because you don't need a macro there: (defun points (list) (loop for (x y) in list collect (point :x x :y y))) 11:19:56 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:20:34 oh, good idea 11:21:07 thanks :) 11:21:55 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:56 though I'd rather do this with mapcar, I don't like loop %) 11:22:40 though (defun points (list) (loop for (x y) on list by #'cddr collect (point :x x :y y))) might be better 11:22:45 (now write this with mapcar) 11:24:16 bah, i seem to be bitten by the premature optimisation bug lately 11:25:21 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-51-103.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 11:25:26 one really basic question - you can create quoted list with little typing ('), but can you create normal list like this? 11:25:38 adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has joined #lisp 11:25:38 or you have to use list? 11:25:54 `(foo ,(+ x 10)) 11:26:33 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:33 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:26:38 freiksenet: depends on what you mean with normal and what you want to do with the list 11:26:43 freiksenet: that's why i proposed a second variant, you will need to write (points (list (+ x 20) (+ y 30))) instead of (points `((,(+ x 20) ,(+ y 30)))) 11:27:42 freiksenet: if the purpose is to create a mutable list using quote, you can write (copy-list '(1 2 3)) 11:28:10 freiksenet: but (list '1 '2 '3) would do as well. 11:28:49 stassats: well, is not that a bit confusing to user? I think list of lists or conses is more semantically correct in this case, am I wrong? 11:28:53 thanks everyone for insight on lists 11:29:18 semantically correct? 11:30:29 well, I have a function that creates a list of points 11:30:39 adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has joined #lisp 11:30:54 oh 11:30:59 oops sorry bad window 11:31:00 what looks, I dunno, better - a list of numbers or a list of pairs of coordinates? 11:31:15 Why should that matter? 11:31:27 The "look" I mean. 11:31:55 well it is just more logical in my opinion, logical for end user. 11:32:05 What should matter is whether you need to manage points as stand alone entities or not? 11:32:37 maybe? 11:34:32 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-183.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:37:09 maybe I am a carebear. I guess stassats decision is better, cause I encounter problem after problem here) 11:37:25 Yes, stassats's points function is good. 11:37:27 -!- elderK [n=zk@222-152-88-21.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [] 11:37:28 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-183.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 11:37:40 I should give iterate a try, it looks better than loop 11:37:41 Just realize that it's a function you write to help yourself as programmer. 11:38:36 But it's probably better to keep the point structure or object internally, unless other considerations enter (eg. a polyline could be represented as a vector of coordinates for performance reasons). 11:39:15 ok, I'll keep this in mind 11:40:02 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 11:45:15 hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 11:47:33 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:50:28 chavo_ [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:39 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:57:26 -!- pam0 [n=pam0@mail2.siscog.pt] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 11:59:51 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-183.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:00:18 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:01:14 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:03:40 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@c-76-124-82-88.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 12:04:27 rickardg [n=user@c-4e7271d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:05:02 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:06:55 -!- schemer999 [n=schemer9@76.89.231.7] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:07:04 attila_lendvai [n=ati@go4terez.adsl.datanet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:09:21 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-98-108.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 12:12:32 htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 12:13:38 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:13:38 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:14:25 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-251.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 12:15:37 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:24 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:18:51 anyone had experience with iterate? how can you write equivalent of (loop for x y in lst) in iterate? 12:19:22 just read iterate's documentation? 12:19:50 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6FF97.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:13 mm, I am reading destructuring right now 12:23:15 a-s [n=user@nat-240.ro.66.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:55 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:27:06 (iter (for (x y) in list) ...) 12:27:15 your LOOP syntax is incorrect, btw 12:27:52 weirdo: tried this. maybe I don't need by in this case, btw? 12:28:37 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:28:49 weirdo: it says value 1 is not of type list %) 12:29:18 (iter (for (x y) in '((1 2) (3 4))) (collect (list y x))) 12:29:21 works for me 12:29:45 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:30:15 I have a plain list list (1 2 3 4 5), I want to take it in pairs 12:32:13 (loop for (l r) in list by (function cddr) do (something-with l r)) 12:32:17 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:32:22 (loop for (l r) ON list by (function cddr) do (something-with l r)) ; sorry 12:32:22 (iter (for (x y) on '(1 2 3 4) by #'(lambda (x) (nthcdr 2 x))) 12:32:22 (collect (list x y))) 12:33:49 [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.94.87.151] has joined #lisp 12:34:00 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:10 weirdo: thanks, it works now 12:35:19 weirdo: #'(lambda (x) (nthcdr 2 x)) is #'cddr 12:35:39 problem was in "in" not "on" 12:36:31 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:36:36 -!- hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has quit ["leaving"] 12:37:12 fe[nl]ix, it's merely to demonstrate that it takes an arbitrary function expression 12:38:19 Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:39:22 -!- [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.94.87.151] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:40:30 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441929.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 12:40:31 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:41:06 adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has joined #lisp 12:41:26 difference between in and on is that on works with cons cells are in works with actual values? 12:41:43 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-126.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 12:42:13 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:42:44 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [] 12:43:06 cons cells are values, too! 12:44:30 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:44:37 s/actual values/atoms 12:44:45 (and atom (not null)) 12:45:03 erm, weirdo, no, that's the point 12:45:14 for pair in '((1 . 2) (3 . 4) ...) 12:45:45 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:45:46 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 12:45:52 freiksenet, in does through each element in a list. on goes through each element, but the variable is bound to the cdr, not the element 12:45:59 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:46:09 so in '(1 2 3) it's bound to (1 2 3), (2 3) and (3) 12:46:35 before someone nitpicks, "variable" can also mean destructuring 12:46:39 yeah, that's what I meant %) 12:49:18 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 12:53:31 manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6FF97.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:35 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6FF97.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:56:19 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:46 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:58:42 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:48 coderdad [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has joined #lisp 12:59:24 -!- rudi [n=rudi@mail.ist.tu-graz.ac.at] has quit ["Client exciting"] 12:59:34 splittist [n=dmurray@ASt-Lambert-153-1-63-222.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:59:37 morning 12:59:57 hi splittist 13:00:34 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1B720.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:00:40 segv [n=mb@p4FC1B720.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:16 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@wavelan-27.vlan-109.publik.su.se] has joined #lisp 13:02:05 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.170.28.103] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:03:36 fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:04:01 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 13:04:37 adityo [n=adityo@122.169.86.248] has joined #lisp 13:04:56 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@219-89-108-42.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:05:57 i think i am testing the limits of ANSI compatibility in LW and sbcl 13:06:13 baffling little differences that are adding up to total breakage 13:06:33 i found it quite helpful to try things out in different lisps 13:06:33 (with-open-file (file html-file :if-does-not-exist :create :if-exists :supersede :direction :output) 13:06:35 (princ html-str file)) 13:06:57 sepult`` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-83.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:07:06 *Xach* learned about array initialization behavior that way 13:07:23 that little snippets renders html to a file, it's then consumed by a shell command which generates a pdf file 13:07:29 Xach: LispWorks? 13:07:38 michaelw: yeah 13:07:51 same here :) 13:08:01 LW renders html text, SBCL writes this to the file # 13:08:10 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:31 is html-str a string output stream? 13:08:37 yes 13:08:52 (with-html-output-to-string (html-str nil) ..) 13:09:13 now you know to always use get-output-stream-string 13:09:37 say that again slowly. get-output-what? 13:09:56 heh 13:11:40 htk__ [n=htk___@188.3.224.64] has joined #lisp 13:13:24 Xach: impressive knowledge there my friend :-) 13:14:04 i also found out it's destructive (i.e. empties the stream) 13:14:37 doesn't with-html-output-to-string return the string? 13:14:44 yeah 13:14:49 dandersen [n=dkcl@58.66.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:14:53 if so, why not (princ (w-h-o-t-s ...) file)? 13:14:53 michaelw: it's a kludge 13:15:06 i am generating html both for pdf and viewing at the same time 13:15:07 does anyone know if yvdries has changed his nickname? 13:15:14 -!- Fufie [n=poff@80.203.160.34] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:15:25 fusss: then save the result... 13:15:31 (with-open-file (file html-file :if-does-not-exist :create :if-exists :supersede :direction :output) 13:15:33 (let ((str (get-output-stream-string html-str))) 13:15:35 (princ str file))) 13:15:36 (print html-str nil))))) 13:15:43 that's how ugly this thing is :-P 13:15:49 Coliveira [n=Coliveir@12.15.114.194] has joined #lisp 13:15:53 um 13:16:04 -!- coliv [n=Coliveir@c-69-248-128-195.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:16:23 fusss, get-output-stream-string?] 13:16:24 except the second print is within the let's scope 13:16:25 not make-? 13:16:30 when you know a little more about lisp, you will learn how to arrange it more beautifully. 13:16:40 sweet, beautiful lisp 13:16:56 Xach: i have been at it for 8 years 13:17:01 s/beatiful/beatiful, happy 13:17:15 at this point i am just heading gently towards middle-management and marketing, hopefully soon 13:17:17 Xach, he probably pasted it from the repl, so it get aligned with the prompt 13:17:19 fusss: yeah, but you split time between hacking and painting 13:17:25 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-146.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 13:17:47 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:18:51 -!- |Soulman| [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 13:20:19 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:53 Xach: ouch, i did not get that last reference til now (slow news day) 13:22:08 Xach: i dabble in it, good sir, I dabble in it. 13:22:14 setheus [n=setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:22:37 TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has joined #lisp 13:23:02 if you mean what I think ;-) 13:23:13 g'morning 13:23:32 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.141.228.235] has joined #lisp 13:23:53 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-156.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:24:04 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:26:20 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:26:37 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:27:43 prip_ [n=_prip@host185-130-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:28:19 -!- prip [n=_prip@host185-130-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:29:35 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:59 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 13:34:11 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 13:34:23 gz_ [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:27 kami-` [n=user@dslb-084-059-210-016.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:47 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.141.228.235] has quit [Success] 13:39:17 Aszarsha [n=aszarsha@88-122-114-66.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:44 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:43:00 _jason8302 [n=thot@59-105-27-43.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has joined #lisp 13:43:46 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:46:53 lukego [n=lukegorr@84-72-45-92.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:49:02 mvillene1ve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:49:46 -!- dwh [n=dwh@ppp118-208-171-218.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:51:47 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:51:52 -!- mvillene1ve is now known as mvilleneuve 13:53:21 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@go4terez.adsl.datanet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:55:11 scottmaccal [n=scott@sentry3.jayschools.org] has joined #lisp 13:55:54 -!- manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6FF97.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 13:56:13 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-91060.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 13:57:54 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-17.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:01 -!- kami-` is now known as kami- 13:58:37 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:44 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:01:39 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 14:04:25 jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:05:45 screamer problems, anyone? 14:08:31 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has joined #lisp 14:09:50 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:10:27 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@wavelan-27.vlan-109.publik.su.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:11:45 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:11:53 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:57 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:13:58 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 14:14:35 -!- _jason8302 [n=thot@59-105-27-43.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has quit [] 14:15:03 rstandy` [n=rastandy@net-93-144-230-91.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 14:18:03 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 14:18:19 Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-135-89.bflony.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:42 scottmaccal1 [n=scott@sentry3.jayschools.org] has joined #lisp 14:21:27 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-171-140.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 14:25:13 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:27:04 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:28:46 -!- dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has quit ["leaving"] 14:29:49 -!- KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [] 14:30:37 *coyo* noms a random lisper 14:30:40 in the lightning talks, were any speakers cut off in mid-sentence? 14:30:58 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-51-103.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:31:25 scottmaccal2 [n=scott@sentry3.jayschools.org] has joined #lisp 14:31:57 *coyo* noms lycurgus 14:32:14 Lycurgus: some were sort off cut of but none were dropkicked out of their lightning talk 14:32:27 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@ASt-Lambert-153-1-63-222.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:32:35 Lycurgus: It was shown to them when they only had one minuted (then 30seconds) available 14:32:35 tcr, memo from attila_lendvai: seems like the (swank-require :swank-arglists) on the top of swank-sbcl-exts.lisp needs to be in an eval-always because the compute-enriched-decoded-arglist below it uses a macro from there 14:32:42 yeah, guess you need a claxon and a big stage hook for that 14:32:59 guy steele was pretty faithful to the form. he would cut you off. 14:33:19 attila_lendvai: thanks 14:33:33 but (as is i guess tradition) the audience would bail you out with "so what (were you were about to say? is in that last slide? etc)" 14:33:39 jeremy jones had to do without his slides due to lack of time budget for trouble shooting 14:34:00 awww 14:34:12 lukego: that was about cross-platform gui development with cocao and clozure right? 14:34:35 you can usually expect crap to foul up with slideshows, so it's best to make time for troubleshooting 14:35:22 so what lightning talk is this? 14:35:51 a lispcon? 14:35:59 y 14:36:07 cool 14:36:13 aerique: yeah. basically saying that cocao is clones are being done so mac guis can run cross-platform, to varying practical extents 14:36:37 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-84-210.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 14:36:56 -!- scottmaccal1 [n=scott@sentry3.jayschools.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:37:00 -!- scottmaccal [n=scott@sentry3.jayschools.org] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:37:12 my bloody laptop decided to turn on the screen blanker after 30 seconds idle or so once I pulled the AC cable, and my slideware package of choice (to remain nameless) needed a manual screen-refresh command to recover from each blank. suboptimal :) 14:37:27 lukego: that was the only lightning talk i recall stopping somewhere in the middle 14:38:17 lukego: i checked cocotron out superficially but it appeared it was mostly aimed as cross-compiling from OS X to Windows 14:38:18 lukego: yeah but you mastered that issue calmly. But it sort of lost your point 14:38:25 maybe i need to take a harder look at it 14:38:28 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:38:52 lukego: i talked with you about pbook for a bit :) 14:38:56 that's what I get for not using lisp-based slideware for once :) 14:39:16 aerique: ah I see your /whois now. I liked your trip report too :) 14:39:52 lukego: cheers :) 14:41:04 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-171-140.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:41:26 *Xach* practiced his ILC lightning talk over and over 14:43:15 crouton [i=crouton@bas1-toronto10-1279558915.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:44:27 -!- htk__ [n=htk___@188.3.224.64] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:44:37 in windows, which lisp implementation would you guys recommend getting? or should i get the cusp plugin for eclipse? 14:44:49 htk_ [n=htk___@188.3.224.64] has joined #lisp 14:45:19 crouton: my impression is that a lot of serious Windows/Lisp hackers use LispWorks. 14:45:24 *Xach* doesn't use lisp on windows, though 14:45:31 ccl is pretty decent too 14:45:39 (if you want to use emacs + slime) 14:46:10 i see 14:46:41 sbcl is usable if you're familiar with it from other platforms and you use emacs + slime and don't need threads 14:47:42 tcr: it was really cool to see someone else give a slime talk btw :) 14:48:49 phf [n=user@host.icnfull.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:16 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:51:25 Hmm, isn't Rob MacLachlan from gigamonkey's post one of the original authors of Python? 14:51:50 The cmucl's python, that is.. 14:51:55 -!- rstandy` [n=rastandy@net-93-144-230-91.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:51:56 -!- scottmaccal2 [n=scott@sentry3.jayschools.org] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:52:09 rstandy` [n=rastandy@net-93-144-230-91.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 14:52:11 deepfire: yes 14:52:18 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:53:30 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-58-28-152.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:17 Hi ! I've downloaded the tarball of Lisp in a box on my FreeBSD vm, untar-ed it and run ./setup, told it to install to /mnt/space/.../LispBox 14:54:27 it went down good, apparently 14:54:39 gmake seems good too 14:55:02 bug gmake install can't find the /mnt/space/.../LispBox/bin directory 14:55:39 have anyone installed Lisp in a Box on freebsd, or knows how to do it please ? 14:55:48 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 14:56:29 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.168.136] has joined #lisp 14:56:43 htk__ [n=htk___@95.65.241.148] has joined #lisp 14:57:05 jlf` [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 14:57:06 Tek3|Eregrith: I didn't try, but if that doesn't work, you can use clbuild instead 14:57:24 What is clbuild ? 14:57:26 ve_ [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:57:34 -!- free_thinker [n=willijar@134.151.144.246] has left #lisp 14:58:08 a bash script to build a lisp environment 14:58:24 ok i'll look for it 14:58:27 thx 14:58:28 I've used slime/sbcl on OpenBSD in the past with no issues, it's not too different from Lisp in a Box. You could set it up manually, it's not too terribly difficult. 14:59:19 ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-26-105.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:00:22 lukego: Glad to make you proud! 15:00:27 K3NT1S_aw [n=kent@88.191.94.142] has joined #lisp 15:01:28 TDT: is it in ports ? 15:01:33 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:01:43 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:02:27 -!- ASau [n=user@host207-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["bye"] 15:02:36 Tek3|Eregrith: I believe so, yes. I moved away from OpenBSD for virtualization issues and all, but http://www.elsasser.org/openbsd/sbcl.html gives some information. 15:02:50 It's probably standard now though, I'd try there first. 15:02:58 TDT: Thanks :) 15:03:08 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-21-32.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:03:09 -!- K3NT1S_aw is now known as register 15:03:16 np. 15:03:34 kpreid [n=kpreid@209.217.212.34] has joined #lisp 15:03:36 -!- register is now known as K3NT1S 15:04:03 -!- K3NT1S is now known as K3NT1S_ 15:04:18 -!- ve_ is now known as ve 15:04:54 -!- K3NT1S_ is now known as K3NT1S 15:05:02 I found sbcl, downloading it :) 15:06:00 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-142-159.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 15:06:29 Tek3|Eregrith: Are you familiar with emacs at all? 15:07:20 milanj [n=milan@93.86.188.253] has joined #lisp 15:07:58 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:09:40 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.169.86.248] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:12:24 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:12:32 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:12:42 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.229.166] has joined #lisp 15:14:14 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:44 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:15:02 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.79.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:16:49 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-68-224.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:17:57 i have no clue what the hell i'm doing haha 15:19:37 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-8-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:20:46 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Absquatulandus sum"] 15:21:13 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:42 :3 15:22:47 *coyo* noms 15:25:04 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:25:40 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:26:13 pr [n=pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 15:26:36 Sup coyo 15:26:57 How goes your induction into the ranks of FUNCTIONAL PROGRAMMERS!!? 15:27:15 :> 15:27:19 goes well 15:27:36 i'm starting to get the hang of things 15:29:00 -!- djkthx [n=yacin@lawn-143-215-206-166.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:29:41 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:30:43 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:21 mcspiff [n=user@DC1BC.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 15:32:35 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:33:46 _jason3853 [n=thot@59-105-27-43.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has joined #lisp 15:34:28 -!- smolyn [n=smolyn@S0106002500fe5c20.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [] 15:34:35 djkthx [n=yacin@143.215.206.166] has joined #lisp 15:34:59 -!- srcerer_ [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:35:38 nowhereman [n=PierreTH@193.251.63.232] has joined #lisp 15:36:58 -!- htk__ [n=htk___@95.65.241.148] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:37:12 htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 15:37:32 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-26-105.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:37:41 jhalogen [n=jake@98.154.251.83] has joined #lisp 15:38:25 Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:39:34 adeht: I need you! 15:39:48 glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has joined #lisp 15:40:28 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:40:52 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:41:49 so, I am continuing to mess up with lispbuilder-sdl. I want to use sdl-ttf. I have installed it, loaded it, but sdl-ttf: package only has five functions, while manual claims there should be many more. How can I find these functions? 15:43:43 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:43:52 Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.79.64] has joined #lisp 15:44:04 freiksenet: just check the sdl-ttf package's source to which functions have been defined 15:45:17 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@78-69-144-82-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:46:11 Alabaman [n=badgerfa@78-69-144-82-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:16 aerique: what do you mean? I have included it to my system definition, it seems to compile and ttf-init is added to sdl subsystems list 15:46:33 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:47:18 -!- mcspiff [n=user@DC1BC.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:47:28 mcspiff [n=user@DC1BC.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 15:48:41 freiksenet: how do you know the sdl-ttf package only has five functions? 15:48:48 -!- djkthx [n=yacin@143.215.206.166] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:51:16 aerique: (in-package :sdl-ttf), then slime completition :) also I tried more functions that should be there and they do not work 15:52:09 freiksenet: then they're probably not there but like i said you can just check the source files to be 100% sure 15:53:06 ejs [n=eugen@80.93.126.42] has joined #lisp 15:55:49 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 15:56:00 -!- mcspiff [n=user@DC1BC.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:56:04 mcspiff` [n=user@DC1BC.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 15:56:40 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 15:59:40 -!- _jason3853 [n=thot@59-105-27-43.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has quit [] 16:01:33 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:02:10 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:02:44 htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 16:03:28 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 16:04:43 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:22 -!- jlf` [n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:08:35 djkthx [n=yacin@lawn-143-215-206-166.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 16:09:13 aeruque: seems fine, but maybe I am missing something. thanks anyway :) 16:11:04 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209.217.212.34] has quit [] 16:12:35 -!- ejs [n=eugen@80.93.126.42] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:13:55 -!- nowhereman [n=PierreTH@193.251.63.232] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:13:57 -!- K3NT1S [n=kent@88.191.94.142] has quit ["( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )"] 16:14:44 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has quit [] 16:19:33 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:20:57 ejs2 [n=eugen@80.93.126.42] has joined #lisp 16:23:58 tekin [n=kaa@85.108.63.177] has joined #lisp 16:25:43 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:25:59 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:27:38 smolyn [n=smolyn@76.77.66.100] has joined #lisp 16:29:50 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:29:51 coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:51 -!- levy [n=levy@apn-94-44-16-221.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:30:06 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:09 manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6FF97.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:27 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AFFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:23 -!- Tek3|Eregrith [n=nnscript@sd-16241.dedibox.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:32:45 grouzen_ [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 16:33:03 levy [n=levy@apn-94-44-16-221.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 16:35:19 -!- whartung [n=willh@207.38.40.1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:35:47 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-6-44.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:34 jeti [n=jeti@p548EFDFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:57 whartung [n=willh@207.38.40.1] has joined #lisp 16:43:13 HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:44:17 -!- mcspiff` [n=user@DC1BC.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:44:34 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:48:19 Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has joined #lisp 16:48:22 -!- grouzen_ [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:48:29 freiksenet: What's the problem with sdl-ttf? 16:49:43 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:16 freiksenet: Use need to use the methods defined in lispbuilder-sdl. These methods are specialized on the font type. So sdl:draw-string-solid will render a bitmap font or a ttf font, depending on the font it is given. That is why there are only 5 functions exported from sdl-ttf:. 16:51:42 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:52:39 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-3-220.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:53:21 Aszarsha_ [n=aszarsha@91-165-133-87.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:10 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:54:59 -!- Aszarsha [n=aszarsha@88-122-114-66.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:55:14 -!- Aszarsha_ is now known as Aszarsha 16:55:57 -!- KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-6-44.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:56:59 tcr: what's up? 16:58:54 grouzen_ [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 16:59:07 -!- mm_freak [n=milch@2a01:198:2d4:0:dead:affe:dead:affe] has left #lisp 17:00:03 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:02:46 Balooga I tried to use "inititialise-default-font" but it does not work in a way it is described in manual - I wanted to load font from file. 17:03:00 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:07:13 freiksenet: initialize-default-font only takes a font object. 17:07:54 Balooga: http://lispbuilder.sourceforge.net/lispbuilder-sdl-ttf.html#initialise-default-font 17:08:15 this is the source I am referring too %) 17:08:16 -!- grouzen_ [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:08:30 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:08:49 ignas_ [n=ignas@79.132.160.221] has joined #lisp 17:08:55 To create a font object, take a look here. http://code.google.com/p/lispbuilder/source/browse/trunk/lispbuilder-sdl-ttf/sdl-ttf/ttf-font-data.lisp 17:09:13 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:29 freiksenet: then pass that object to initialize-default-font. 17:11:09 Balooga: thanks %) does this mean that docs on the site are a bit not up to date? 17:11:12 freiksenet: I have to update the ttf, mixer, image and gfx docs. 17:11:56 Balooga: ok :) thanks for explanation 17:12:01 freiksenet: The project moved from soourceforge to googlecode some months ago. The latest docs are here; http://code.google.com/p/lispbuilder/wiki/LispbuilderSDL 17:12:33 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:00 Balooga: your docs are nice! 17:13:47 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:14:15 Balooga: yeah, it seems I have used wrong source :) sorry about that 17:14:39 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["leaving"] 17:14:44 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:48 Balooga_ [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has joined #lisp 17:15:34 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:16:31 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:20 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:17:24 Xach: Thanks :) I've spent quite some time writing the user guide. 17:22:27 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@80.93.126.42] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:24:18 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:29:23 -!- Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has quit ["My damn controlling terminal disappeared!"] 17:33:10 Xach: I'm operating under the perhaps incorrect assumption that good docs will put lispbuilder-sdl above cl-sdl in the google search results :) 17:33:34 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 17:34:00 Balooga_: first in our hearts if not our search results 17:36:21 wchogg [n=wchogg@host-241-210.pubnet.pdx.edu] has joined #lisp 17:37:26 (draw-string-solid-* "@" xpos ypos :color *white*) I am trying to do this 17:38:09 but i get mistake that nil is not of the type pointer 17:38:48 am I missing something? 17:39:09 Tordek [n=tordek@host96.200-82-21.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:39:54 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.192.123] has joined #lisp 17:41:55 freiksenet: Let me check. 17:42:38 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:55 examples from sdl-ttf work, but I don't see what I might be missing. 17:44:09 freiksenet: Are you sure the font object was created ok? 17:44:10 -!- HET3 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:45:22 -!- jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:45:35 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:45:43 jikanter [n=jordan@24-148-12-119.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:13 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-98-108.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:46:14 freiksenet: an error like that usually indicates the the font object was not created correctly. It is looking for a foreign pointer to the font but finds NIL instead. 17:46:20 Balooga_ : *default-font* says # 17:47:10 freiksenet: (fp *default-font*) ? 17:47:17 -!- Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:47:21 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 17:47:59 nil %) okay, that should be the problem, thanks 17:48:11 freiksenet 17:48:37 freiksenet: I need to addmore descriptor error messages :) 17:49:35 I guess I am jsut a bit unexperienced with both lisp and sdl :) 17:49:59 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:50:29 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit ["off"] 17:51:00 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:51:31 freiksenet: You would have figured it out yourself with more descriptive errors. 17:53:31 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:53:45 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 17:55:20 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/session] has joined #lisp 17:55:20 -!- delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:55:24 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 17:56:09 -!- Tordek_ [n=tordek@host56.190-138-159.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:56:35 lispm [n=joswig@e177150197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:57:41 dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:58:46 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:59:35 -!- tekin [n=kaa@85.108.63.177] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:00:39 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:03 tekin [n=kaa@85.108.63.177] has joined #lisp 18:04:43 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:06:42 HET3 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:27 -!- tagac [n=user@27.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #lisp 18:12:40 All right, after like 12 hours of recompiling and re-recompiling, ASDF-INSTALL seems to be working properly once more 18:13:26 :S 18:13:36 which lisp are you using ? 18:13:42 SBCL on Snow Leopard 18:13:58 what went wrong ? 18:14:12 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 18:14:36 Sometimes POSIX stuff failed to build, other times various FFI packages wouldn't work 18:15:07 did you have to change any code or was it all environment related issues ? 18:16:47 The latter. OS X is a "niche" platform so the preferred solution for most of my problems is to not use OS X 18:17:13 mcspiff` [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:15 :) 18:17:23 linux is just an install away ;) 18:18:48 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:20:13 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-109-29.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:20:25 Good evening everyone! 18:20:39 hi beach 18:21:10 good afternoon beach :) 18:21:14 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@222-154-179-95.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:28:04 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 18:28:28 -!- manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6FF97.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 18:28:55 Balooga_: sorry for bothering you again :) I still have some problems with that draw string, not is says that there is no applicable methods for generic functions. where have I screwed up again? :) 18:29:21 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 18:29:52 -!- rickardg [n=user@c-4e7271d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:30:32 -!- glogic [n=glogic@97.76.48.98] has left #lisp 18:31:29 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:47 Athas` [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 18:32:09 Tek3|Eregrith [n=nnscript@mne69-11-88-181-121-227.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:19 manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6FF97.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:27 Makoryu: why not use clbuild, btw? :D 18:34:13 p_l: .....Instead of ASDF-INSTALL? 18:34:39 p_l: For packages that I'm installing to use locally, rather than trying to create and distribute? 18:35:09 well, most "end-user" applications have their own build scripts already 18:35:33 True 18:35:56 I'm just using libraries, though 18:36:16 freiksenet: Hmm. 18:36:23 Hmmm oh wait 18:36:38 though, there's real need to get something better than both clbuild and asdf-install ¬_¬ 18:38:09 Balooga_: do you need all my code? 18:38:59 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:17 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:39:41 -!- Athas` [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:39:54 angus [n=angus@r3x34.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 18:40:13 -!- dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 18:40:31 Athas` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 18:41:14 tau [n=daniel@189.127.60.249] has joined #lisp 18:42:33 -!- Athas` [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:45:20 -!- frontiers [n=frontier@79.160.22.139] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:47:10 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:48:11 -!- tau [n=daniel@189.127.60.249] has quit [Client Quit] 18:49:09 freiksenet: That would be helpful :) 18:50:18 splittist [n=dmurray@ASt-Lambert-153-1-72-82.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:50:21 re 18:50:54 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:51:41 freiksenet pasted "here you go" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87572 18:54:32 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 18:54:46 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:54:53 -!- rstandy` [n=rastandy@net-93-144-230-91.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:55:17 rstandy` [n=rastandy@net-93-144-230-91.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 18:55:58 freiksenet: Ah. 18:56:12 freiksenet: Naughty naughty. 18:57:22 freiksenet: Found the bug. 18:57:51 Balooga_: in my code? 18:57:58 yup 18:58:29 What is this supposed to draw? 18:59:28 Balooga_: so what is the bug? :) 19:00:06 TDT: 10x10 hex map with @ inside each of them. though probably @ would be in wrong position 19:01:44 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:01:56 freiksenet: Annotated your post. 19:02:08 -!- mcspiff` [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:02:13 let me know if that works. 19:02:17 mcspiff` [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:31 Balooga annotated #87572 "fix to make-font" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87572#1 19:05:09 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:05:25 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-142-159.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:06:29 now same error as in first time :) 19:07:48 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:37 nm, I am stupid :) I had a typo in font path %) 19:10:47 thanks a lot and sorry for taking your time :) 19:12:17 numeromancer [n=tschaeff@dramail.com] has joined #lisp 19:13:16 -!- sepult`` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-83.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:29 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:13:33 Athas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 19:13:46 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:15:24 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-83.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:27 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-83.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:17:37 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:18:04 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-83.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:18:15 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-98-108.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:18:58 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 19:19:59 nha [n=prefect@17-70.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:22:16 Athas` [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 19:22:26 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:23:27 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@99.33.92.164] has joined #lisp 19:24:09 freiksenet: The latest version of sdl-ttf in svn will now return NIL if you call INITIALISE-FONT, and a font cannot be created. 19:26:42 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-247-141.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:27:17 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:27:36 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:31:29 Athas`` [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 19:31:38 -!- Athas [n=athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:32:43 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@76.104.220.73] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:34:33 -!- salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [] 19:34:46 rickardg [n=user@c-4e7271d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:35:33 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.188.253] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:36:49 -!- Athas`` [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:40:00 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:40:13 -!- Athas` [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:41:16 Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:44:07 plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-32-41.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:45:51 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 19:45:56 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:14 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 19:47:32 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Client Quit] 19:47:44 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 19:48:19 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:50:19 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:35 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 19:56:36 -!- Levenson [n=Levenson@92.46.79.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:58:08 heh, filename or file-name? 19:58:20 I guess its filename, but not sure 19:58:55 clhs filename 19:58:55 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for filename. 19:58:56 clhs uses filename 20:01:02 thx 20:01:21 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:03:17 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:31 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@ASt-Lambert-153-1-72-82.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1"] 20:04:42 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:58 -!- Balooga_ [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has left #lisp 20:07:01 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 20:09:18 -!- Tek3|Eregrith [n=nnscript@mne69-11-88-181-121-227.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )"] 20:12:05 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 20:15:09 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:16:24 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@99.33.92.164] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:17:34 minion: cliki? 20:17:39 cliki: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I? 20:21:33 KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-7-44.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:48 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:24:01 michaelw: here? 20:27:23 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:27:53 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:03 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:28:22 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-126.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 20:31:36 -!- tekin [n=kaa@85.108.63.177] has quit [] 20:31:49 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-123-83.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:35:10 johnny_86 [n=anonymou@217.24.250.130] has joined #lisp 20:35:17 'sup? 20:35:20 any news? 20:35:26 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:41 -!- numeromancer [n=tschaeff@dramail.com] has left #lisp 20:37:42 redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:38:13 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:41:42 hello johnny_86 20:41:55 *Adlai* has become a "vimtard" and uses viper-mode now 20:42:52 that's terrible 20:42:54 If only wires were capable of emitting human contempt. 20:43:00 viper-mode RULES 20:43:35 hmm, mixed reaction here... 20:44:22 I must say though, it just goes to show how amazing Emacs is that it can emulate another editor. I don't think any setting in vi config will give you M-x... 20:44:56 Adlai: ln -fs `which emacs` `which vi` will 20:45:00 actually you could soup up something like that 20:45:47 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 20:46:07 koning_robot: I don't mean a command line, I mean all the emacs commands available through it :) 20:46:36 The other way of looking at it is that there must be something horribly broken if people want to emulate another editor, but it all just boils down to editors being too much functionality to bother learning twice without a compelling motivation besides editing text. 20:46:43 -!- johnny_86 is now known as johnny_z 20:46:48 hello Adlai 20:47:05 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:09 yeah but you could do that too.. the real problem with vim is that it has a really stupid design... but the modal interface rocks 20:47:45 stassats`: I'm actually just using viper mode because it lets me combine emacs bindings and vi bindings... thus, I can end up with my own customized-beyond-recognition combination of the two 20:48:09 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:49:06 minion: memo for michaelw: I just had a use case for your diff-sexp; dunno if you're inclined to resume working on it, but if, please note that it only works on well-formed lists. Also it would be nice to be able to pass a :test parameter. 20:49:06 Remembered. I'll tell michaelw when he/she/it next speaks. 20:49:17 Adlai: viper mode certainly gives you that feeling that no one will ever touch your editor except you 20:49:36 Adlai: Does viper mode work good with slime? 20:49:50 antoszka: yes, because it has a pretty good way of integrating emacs and vi 20:50:05 there are three "states" -- insert state, vi state, and emacs state 20:50:23 Adlai: Can I pretend to be fully emacs when I'm in insert mode? 20:50:30 (i.e. until I press escape?) 20:50:34 antoszka: YES, that's what makes it so great 20:50:44 Line editing in insert mode in vim is so daft... 20:50:47 Yeah, that's great. 20:50:55 Best of both worlds, I suppose. 20:51:07 you even have a bit of emacsness in "vi state" 20:51:14 for example, all C-c and C-x commands still work 20:51:22 There's a setting for how much you want to mix the 2 20:51:32 Cool. Will have to get a hang of that. 20:51:54 antoszka: if you're familiar with emacs, just go to state 5 right away, and then read a bit around the viper mode documentation 20:52:08 any news from CL world? 20:52:11 it's pretty easy to figure out how the states work, the documentation describes it pretty well 20:52:13 any new implementation? 20:52:14 You can have it completely modal between emacs and vi with something like C-z switching, or have all C-c / C-x working, or have emacs listen to Esc or what have you 20:52:33 It works out pretty well in my experience 20:52:46 *Adlai* just went to the maximum integration setting right away 20:53:14 Adlai: Thx. 20:53:44 there's also vimpulse which adds the visual modes to viper, but it doesn't quite work as i expected 20:53:57 this entire conversation can only end in tears. 20:54:29 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 20:54:36 let us dry your tears 20:54:55 koning_robot: I never really use the visual mode in vim, which doesn't make the situation much of a worry. 20:55:00 johnny_z: XCL is fairly new! 20:55:07 fairly unexciting, too, imo. 20:55:10 but new nonetheless. 20:55:17 sykopomp: that's because it's not even new yet :) 20:55:45 sykopomp: Why unexciting? 20:55:48 BTW, is this the only place in the Internet where The Great Editor War turns into the The Great Editor Coitus :)? 20:55:59 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:03 rule 34. no exceptions. 20:56:04 tcr: don't see the big deal. It has a C++ core. And? 20:56:27 it can build sbcl. that in itself is fairly revolutionary (-: 20:56:34 antoszka: this #lisp -- Where editors make love, not war. 20:56:42 Adlai: hehe 20:56:45 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:56:55 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:57 antifuchs: can't any ansi-compliant lisp do that? :) 20:57:00 all that matters to us, really, is that we don't have to copy-and-paste into the repl 20:57:03 *Adlai* cough cough 20:57:07 sykopomp: apparently not. (: 20:57:14 sykopomp: no, CCL couldn't when I last tried 20:57:19 oh snap 20:57:32 clisp can do sometimes, depends on the phase of the moon 20:57:33 bootstrapping a CL implementation is a pretty complex process 20:57:35 sykopomp: there are array size limits, and printer bug-freeness dependencies (: 20:57:47 sykopomp: I think it has a niche. Integration with C++ libraries. 20:58:01 tcr: that's true. That might actually be quite useful. 20:58:10 tcr: isn't it also aiming at being high-performance? 20:58:21 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:57 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:59:55 -!- angus [n=angus@r3x34.net.upc.cz] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:00:02 Uhm, well, it's a one-man project so far. 21:00:22 -!- johnny_z [n=anonymou@217.24.250.130] has quit [] 21:00:57 -!- nha [n=prefect@17-70.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:42 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:02:14 leo2007 [n=leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:02:47 tcr: well, it compiles to native code and has (according to the website) an optimizing compiler 21:02:48 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229111180.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 21:06:27 i trust my guitar, therefore we black out together. 21:06:56 Adlai: well, it's half-product is compiled by optimizing compiler, sure :P 21:07:17 in some cases, you could run certain special optimizations on it, as well 21:07:35 I wonder if it already has optimizations from the lisp side 21:08:06 p_l: what do you mean "half-product"? 21:08:22 ah, sorry, I mixed up ECL and XCL ^^; 21:08:57 ECL - C... XCL - C++ 21:09:03 from that starting point, I'd bet on ECL... 21:09:18 Adlai: the difference is that ECL compiles to C 21:09:30 hmm, we have ABCL in Java, so now all we need is SharpCL in C# 21:09:36 -!- mcspiff` [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:09:39 p_l: does it do that by default? 21:09:47 mcspiff` [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:50 Adlai: it's less about "it's in java" and more about "it runs on the jvm" 21:09:56 sykopomp: true 21:10:11 actually, is ABCL in Java, or does it just compile to jvm bytecode? 21:10:33 Adlai: it has parts written in Java, but afaik it compiles directly to bytecode 21:10:54 Adlai: At least part of the compiler is written in CL. 21:11:04 that makes sense, I guess 21:11:10 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-84-210.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:31 once you have a small core subset of CL running, you can define the rest using it 21:11:31 Adlai: as for ECL, yes, it compiles by default to C then runs C compiler & linker. It does have a bytecode engine for on-the-fly compiling without disk access 21:12:41 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:07 Adlai: the compiler is written in Lisp, the interpreter in Java 21:13:14 the interpreter is used to bootstrap the compiler 21:13:20 the same goes for xcl 21:13:37 Adlai: it mixes bytecode and previously written java 21:13:49 tcr: ah, that makes sense, given how you build XCL 21:13:54 *Adlai* hasn't tried using ABCL yet 21:14:06 ABCL also rn C# code from IKVM 21:14:36 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-050-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:03 Adlai: You can build ABCL both from Java as well as from Lisp. (the lisp script invokes java per run-external-program, of course) 21:16:08 HET4 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:00 francogrex [n=user@91.176.42.53] has joined #lisp 21:22:00 hi if (loop for i in *newout* do (format t "~A," (cadr i))) outputs: 2,11,22,10,6,127,9,1,1,3,238,9, how to instruct loop or format to not prnt the very last comma? 21:22:07 -!- rickardg [n=user@c-4e7271d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:22:57 francogrex: I recommend the PCL chapter on fromat 21:23:00 in PCL peter seibel showed a method with a format iterator, but I can'(t use it here 21:23:00 *format 21:23:07 francogrex: I believe PCL had chapter on FORMAT that included conditional sequences 21:23:09 (format t "~{~a~^, }" list) 21:23:09 (format t "~{~A~^, ~}" *newout*) 21:23:22 s/}/~}/ 21:23:27 p_l, Adlai, just see above what i wrote 21:23:31 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:23:51 francogrex: try tcr's and stassats`'s solutions 21:23:59 francogrex: hm, is *newout* a vector or a list? 21:24:05 right, they are identical 21:24:10 Alabaman: Think 21:24:10 -!- HET3 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:24:18 Adlai: IN works only on lists 21:24:33 stassats`: true, I'm confusing loop with the sequence functions 21:24:33 (format t "~{~a~^, ~}" (mapcar #'cadr *newout*)) 21:24:45 *newout* has this format: ((("Argentina" "OK") "2") (("Austria" "OK") "11") ... etc 21:24:49 Alabaman: (Sorry that was not supposed to be directed to you.) 21:25:30 francogrex: if you have to use loop and format in that way, then you'll have to somehow check whether you're at the last element, and treat it differently than the rest. 21:25:36 and first write an accessor named COUNTRY 21:25:46 tcr: towards me? :D 21:27:56 see if I type (format t "~{~A~^, ~}" (cadr *newout*)) i'll have only : (Austria OK), 11 21:29:09 francogrex: try what stassats` suggested 21:29:19 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:29:24 Adlai: you mean the accessor? 21:29:54 stassats: ok that works 21:29:57 no, (format t "~{~a~^, ~}" (mapcar #'cadr *newout*)) 21:30:35 Adlai: yes ok that works 21:30:38 thanks 21:30:57 <_3b> (format t "~{~{~1*~a~}~^, ~}" *newout*) ? 21:31:06 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:32:37 In lisp, specifically elisp, what does ,@ exactly mean? 21:33:05 TDT: Splicing a list 21:33:15 TDT: that's part of the backquote syntax 21:33:18 _3b: that also works thanks 21:33:29 clhs ` 21:33:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 21:33:38 good night 21:33:44 good night serichsen 21:33:49 TDT: Read the macro chapter in Practical Common Lisp 21:33:52 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@hmbg-4d06f7df.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["clhs sleep"] 21:34:53 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:35:02 Yeah, that makes snse now, and read it...the part that kinda bugs me is the whole (eval `(call-process "ldapsearch" nil ldap-search-buffer nil ,@arglist ..)) portion of all this. Getting some odd errors and debugging this has been a real pain. 21:36:19 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.176.42.53] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:36:27 s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-160-166-251.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:41 I gotta read up on how to debug elisp, spending way too much time on simple stuff. 21:37:20 TDT: blood, sweat, and tears. 21:37:22 manly tears, of course. 21:38:01 TDT: Dunno I always debug by sprinkling calls to http://paste.lisp.org/display/79366/ around my code 21:38:40 and surely (setq *debug-on-error* t) 21:38:56 sykopomp: lol, yeah, to be honest, that's basically what I've been doing. 21:39:15 stassats`: M-x toggle-debug-on-error is easier to type :) 21:39:16 I've also been using the (debug) call here and there, but that's been less than helpful when it doesn't actually tell me variable states at the time. 21:39:33 tcr: didn't know about it 21:39:33 tcr: that's handy... in the past I've just printed messages, but then I end up searching through *Messages*... 21:40:22 Quick Question on Windows and CCL - I installed CCL just fine and got it working with SLIME. But any Lisp evaluation sends its results to the *minibuffer* with the evaluated expression printed out as a comment above the REPL prompt. Any ideas on how I can change this to work like other emacs/slime/lisp setups with the evaluated expr and the results sent to the REPL window? 21:41:50 tha'ts pretty hilarious. 21:41:58 Sending results to the minibuffer is particularly useless if the expression result is anything long - think of a macroexpand or something! 21:42:07 Summermute66: just out of curiosity, you're using slime-fancy, right? 21:42:20 it does that when you are using doing C-x C-e 21:42:24 are you doing this? 21:42:25 Hmmm - that i admit I do not know 21:42:27 oh 21:42:30 Summermute66: Use (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) in your .emacs 21:42:38 tcr: Thanks for the link of that, I think I'll do the same thing as that. 21:42:49 yup c-x c-e 21:42:58 well, here's your problem 21:43:11 Summermute66: And then when you start slime, you'll get a proper REPL 21:43:13 you need to get a repl and type there and hit the RET 21:43:23 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:43:47 By itself, the REPL seems ok 21:43:49 can I file "slime-repl should be enabled by default" as a bug? 21:44:01 it's evaluating anything from a source buffer 21:44:17 sykopomp: no, because the slime repl is fancy 21:44:20 don't evaluate anything from a source buffer 21:44:26 thus it belogns in slime-fancy :) 21:44:29 <_3b> you could also use C-c RET to macroexpand, C-c I when you want to inspect a large result, etc 21:44:59 I don't know what craziness caused slime to require (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)), but considering how bloody often people come in here because the damn repl doesn't work, it seems this is silliness. 21:45:11 stassats: Um, but that's why I use slime 21:45:11 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 21:45:22 Summermute66: "you are using it wrong" then 21:45:37 stassats`: C-c C-c 21:45:43 <_3b> stassats`: evaluating everything from source buffers works for me :) 21:45:51 C-c C-k also works 21:45:56 C-x C-e is for elisp :P 21:46:01 _3b: I prefer compiling a source buffer 21:46:04 _3b: well, for me too, but it works not like Summermute66 wants 21:46:20 Not that I knew about it till last week >_> 21:46:23 <_3b> Makoryu: i meant doing all evaluation from source buffers, not using only evaluation 21:46:31 sykopomp: well, the latter is not true 21:46:31 Why - I just mean using c-x c-e and similar commands for regions etc - that's not "wrong" 21:46:33 _3b: Ah 21:46:47 <_3b> Makoryu: not that i don't use an implementation that compiles everything either way :) 21:46:50 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:52 Summermute66: usually, the way i goes is you C-c C-c for single *definitions* in a source file. 21:46:57 and you go into the repl, and test it out there. 21:47:11 as opposed to writing crap, say, in a *scratch* buffer and C-x C-e-ing it. 21:47:21 sykopomp: That's almost like using Haskell.... 21:47:23 Summermute66: Write a mail to the mailing list that you want a command to send a form to repl and have it evaluated there. 21:47:25 it's much more convenient to use C-c C-c or C-M-x 21:47:26 ;) 21:47:26 <_3b> C-x C-e is fine if you want to see output in minibuffer 21:47:42 Summermute66: In fact, people wrote such function in past, but it never made into Slime, even though I think it should. 21:47:45 Makoryu: guess what prelude is supposed to pretend to be :) 21:47:54 and then you can C-c C-y to insert a function call into the repl 21:47:58 c-c c-c no prob 21:47:59 sykopomp: A flying walrus? 21:48:00 *_3b* frequently does things like ;(test-foo) C-x C-e 21:48:06 Summermute66: Alternatively, use M-x slime-scratch, and use C-j in there 21:48:07 Makoryu: no. Offtopic. 21:48:09 :D 21:48:20 *_3b* needs to integrate an actual testing framework into that at some point though 21:48:27 I'm just bumbed about the weird "output format" 21:48:38 Summermute66: try using the lisp repl. 21:48:46 then you'll stop being bummed. 21:48:50 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-169-242.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:48:51 minion: slime.mov? 21:48:51 slime.mov: "using SLIME" video by Marco Baringer, http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 21:49:20 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:49:47 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:49:51 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:49:51 Yeah, but i don't think I could type something like the code to a unification algorithm all at the REPL 21:50:15 Summermute66: Of course not. See that movie for enlightenment. 21:50:17 well, that's right, you write functions in the file, compile them and run at the repl 21:50:19 Summermute66: So bind it to something in your source file and evaluate it in the REPL 21:50:22 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:27 Summermute66: You know how to switch buffers? 21:50:39 sure 21:50:57 (Anyone: Is there a special Slime command for that? Switching between a working buffer and a REPL?) 21:51:14 C-c C-z will bring you to the repl 21:51:23 stassats`: Thanks! 21:51:26 it's just an ordinary emacs keystroke 21:51:34 Makoryu: C-c C-z, and M-x slime-selector 21:51:34 stassats`: When I'm in there, what will bring me back? 21:51:46 M-x slime-selector RET l 21:51:57 bind slime-selector to something convenient 21:52:05 Makoryu: You're probably looking for slime-selector. You have to bind it to a convenient place, though 21:52:06 i have it bound to C-z 21:52:31 -!- HET4 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:52:40 slime-selection - any elucidation? 21:52:52 "-selector" 21:53:04 Oh, it opens as a separate window 21:53:07 M-x slime-selector RET ? 21:53:10 Summermute66: You write your definition in a buffer, and use C-c C-c to compile the toplevel expression at point into your Lisp image. Then you switch to the REPL to test the function. That's how you work in Slime. 21:53:10 So I'll just close the window 21:53:29 -!- ak70````` [n=user@195.158.89.22] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:53:54 *_3b* likes the 'leave it running and watch it change when you hit C-c C-c' workflow :) 21:53:55 (C-c C-y will insert function into the repl and switch you to the repl) 21:53:56 So just compile definitions, don't evaluate any expressions???? 21:54:25 Makoryu: Unrelated to the discussion, but if you're intermediately familiar with Slime, skim through http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/slime-talk-2008.pdf and take up stuff you don't yet know about. 21:54:35 *_3b* needs to figure out how to add some locking so i don't have to hit a restart every few compiles though :/ 21:54:38 Summermute66: Please watch the slime movie that has been refered to you above. 21:55:04 Well, sure I will 21:55:07 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@86-124-79-237.iasi.cablelink.ro] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:55:24 <_3b> Summermute66: if you were asking me, i'm working on opengl apps at the moment, so recompiling a function that runs every frame is immediately obvious :) 21:55:33 Summermute66: Some things are more easily shown that explained 21:55:45 *than 21:56:13 -!- mcspiff` [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:56:22 mcspiff` [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:54 I'm happy to grow in the ways of slime, but I still wished c-x c-e and like expession/buffer evaluators worked like they did with SBCL 21:57:30 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@222-154-179-95.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:57:33 <_3b> Summermute66: how do you mean? C-x C-e prints results in minibuffer for me on sbcl 21:58:01 -!- TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:58:19 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [] 21:58:22 weird - I get my output in the REPL window sort "as if" I typed the code from the working buffer right into the REPL 21:58:27 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@222-154-179-95.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:58:52 "sort _of_ 'as if' 21:58:53 That's where the output of your function is put to 21:58:54 only if you are calling PRINT 21:59:00 the return value is shown in the minibuffer 21:59:21 <_3b> strange, i get no output to repl from C-x C-e unless the expression prints it (or calls something that does) 21:59:41 that's whacky 22:00:17 you are misinterpreting your observations 22:00:34 It's all that mescaline I take, I guess :-) 22:00:54 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:01:06 dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:54 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177150197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 22:01:56 Anyway, thanks for all the pointers and advice - Lisp folks are definitely the best. I'll explore further and come on back if I can't grok it all. 22:01:59 Summermute66: bat country! 22:02:13 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:02:22 Have more grapefruit! 22:02:28 <_3b> does swank have any hooks that would let me make it grab a mutex before processing C-c C-c or whatever? 22:03:36 Nope. Implement your own C-c C-c. 22:03:50 *_3b* isn't sure that would actually be a good solution even if it did though 22:03:50 or advice existing C-c C-c 22:04:14 stassats`: I think he needs to introduce a new defslimefun lest to make it hacky 22:05:11 *_3b* will probably just stay with restarts for now then 22:05:32 yeah, C-c C-c is asynchronous 22:05:35 -!- redline6561 [n=redline@gate-22.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:11:18 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-68-224.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:11:42 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-24-192.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:12:43 ennen [n=nn@studio25.org] has joined #lisp 22:14:28 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:15:01 -!- ennen [n=nn@studio25.org] has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:09 _3b: Here's an idea: Change the macro DEFSLIMEFUN not to expand to DEFUN but to DEFGENERIC. Then you can add an :AROUND method to compile-string-for-emacs. 22:16:44 _3b: The macro DEFSLIMEFUN has not been changed for years so you should be able live with that modification without conflicts on future updates 22:17:44 -!- mcspiff` [n=user@drmons0501w-142177074171.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:18:44 divisionbell [n=kenan@78.172.78.92] has joined #lisp 22:19:51 i couldn't find the meaning of "@" in lisp 22:19:55 -!- Alabaman [n=badgerfa@78-69-144-82-no19.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:20:02 clhs ` 22:20:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 22:20:56 thanks :) 22:22:24 -!- divisionbell [n=kenan@78.172.78.92] has left #lisp 22:23:26 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 22:23:29 coliv [n=Coliveir@173.12.30.65] has joined #lisp 22:26:43 schoppen1auer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:27:02 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:30:43 -!- schoppen1auer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 22:31:59 /win 7 22:32:30 /osx 10.6 22:32:59 /inferno 22:33:58 *p_l* hails sykopomp 22:34:05 /movitz 22:34:21 (incf stassats`) 22:34:29 /TOMOYO Linux 22:35:14 -!- coliv [n=Coliveir@173.12.30.65] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:37:05 gotta love how CCL murders all of emacs whenever something goes wrong wrong with threads. Bah. 22:37:40 heh 22:38:17 I think I must be failing at lexical scoping or something. This is such a bizarre bug. 22:38:22 and it only happens on CCL, to boot. 22:39:05 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:40:35 coderdad [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has joined #lisp 22:40:50 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@222-154-179-95.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:41:26 -!- Coliveira [n=Coliveir@12.15.114.194] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:41:26 -!- levy [n=levy@apn-94-44-16-221.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 22:42:58 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:43:09 -!- setheus [n=setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:43:11 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:40 moocow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 22:43:47 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:43:48 -!- dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:45:22 redblue [i=star@ppp100.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:48:02 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:51:10 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 22:51:20 sykopomp pasted "clozure lexical binding issue?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87603 22:52:30 I might be horribly confused and screwing something obvious up, but those bindings should be getting updated with every iteration, right? 22:52:39 how can that assertion even fail? 22:53:49 <_3b> what is the value of c/newc when it fails? 22:53:54 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-91060.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:54:10 it'd be much easier to test if it were isolated from chanl 22:54:36 stassats`: I'm going to try to isolate the bug, but I only -just- figured out that it may not actually be a problem with chanl... 22:54:46 rather, the way I'm using threads, maybe. 22:54:55 _3b: the assertion fails because they're the exact same object. 22:55:00 so, for some reason, c/newc are bound to the same object. 22:55:05 <_3b> right, what object 22:55:17 <_3b> it isn't nill or something for example, right? 22:55:21 no 22:55:23 it's a channel. 22:56:04 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Client Quit] 22:56:16 _3b: well, let me double check that... 22:56:17 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p57915FE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:51 <_3b> next question would be what does CHAN look like 22:57:11 why don't you use loop vars inside the loop: for prime = ... 22:57:27 _3b: it's a constructor for a channel struct. 22:57:39 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:57:48 huh 22:57:55 <_3b> sykopomp: automatically defined by defstruct you mean? 22:58:02 well, that's odd... hold on. 22:58:35 okay, so the assertion in sieve isn't the one failing. 22:58:38 it's the one in FILTER 22:59:20 which is obvious 22:59:43 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@ludios.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:50 it shares the binding of C which you set to NEWC at the end of the loop 22:59:53 djinni` [n=djinni`@ludios.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:23 why does that happen? :\ 23:00:30 sykopomp annotated #87603 "this triggers the failure" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87603#1 23:01:15 tcr: isn't filter supposed to have already been called -before- the bindings are made the same? 23:01:25 Huh so what? 23:01:30 it's executed in parallel 23:01:36 it may well be executed later 23:02:09 <_3b> what does spawn look like again? 23:02:32 it's macro expanding to (make-thread (lambda () ..body..)) supposedly 23:02:41 _3b: basically, (defmacro spawn (&body body) `(bt:make-thread (lambda () ,@body))) 23:03:03 I do some processing for it to yank out a docstring to use as a process name. 23:03:05 sykopomp: Oh I see what you mean 23:03:27 sykopomp annotated #87603 "actual spawn def" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87603#2 23:03:32 what you want is (let ((c* c)) (spawn (filter prine c* newc))) 23:03:34 I don't see why it matters, but there's the full definition. 23:04:45 tcr: heh. That works. I understand now. It's not really what I expected. 23:05:00 Dunno it's totally obvious to me 23:05:21 but the lambda has to be created before make-thread is called, right? 23:05:30 and once the lambda is created, it keeps whatever bindings it had when it was made? 23:05:49 oh 23:05:50 sure 23:05:55 right. 23:05:57 :| 23:06:16 it's a lexical variable. the setf affects it. Right. 23:06:23 thanks :\ 23:06:38 *_3b* gets it now too 23:07:00 Might make sense to abstain from loops-by-assignment and go the tail-recursive route 23:07:25 tcr: yeah, the algorithm is just translated directly from newsqueak, hence why it's so ugly. 23:07:40 ironically, I directly translated it to make sure things were right. 23:07:43 -!- moocow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:07:47 Yeah I remember it from Rob Pike's google talk 23:07:49 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:07:52 but it's worth noting that the paper on newsqueak actually mentioned that its lexical variables were borked. 23:07:58 :P 23:08:06 which explains why it worked for newsqueak! 23:08:18 and SICP has a similiar one involving lazy lists, iirc 23:08:30 neat 23:09:19 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@host-241-210.pubnet.pdx.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:10:17 moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:17 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-133-13.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:13:06 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:13:41 it worked on sbcl? 23:13:49 Fade: yeah, it did, which is why it was so confusing. 23:14:05 is sbcl fluffing the lex vars? 23:14:22 <_3b> could be just timing 23:14:52 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p57915FE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:15:11 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:15:30 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p57915FE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:20 -!- benny [n=benny@87.122.25.240] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:16:45 sykopomp: could you paste your whole file? I'd like to play with it a bit. 23:16:48 jeti` [n=jeti@p548EFC95.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:18 benny [n=benny@i577A19F0.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:18:08 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-229-28.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:29 Fade: http://github.com/sykopomp/chanl 23:19:57 thanks 23:20:18 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-24-192.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 23:20:23 -!- Elench [n=jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:24:03 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:26:12 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:26:46 drewc: I trusted you! 23:27:04 drewc: (it doesn't look like the planet cliki DNS change has taken place) 23:29:54 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:30:00 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:30:23 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@port-92-195-32-41.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:31:16 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@79.132.160.221] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:31:51 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:31:56 -!- jeti [n=jeti@p548EFDFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:36:02 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441929.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:36:05 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:36:22 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:54 sykopomp: I may be late to the party, but I'd probably go with spawn being a function with takes a function, e.g. (spawn (let ((c* c)) (lambda () (filter prime c* newc)))) 23:39:54 michaelw, memo from tcr: I just had a use case for your diff-sexp; dunno if you're inclined to resume working on it, but if, please note that it only works on well-formed lists. Also it would be nice to be able to pass a :test parameter. 23:41:58 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has joined #lisp 23:47:38 Xach: oh? 23:47:50 -!- coyo [n=alex@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:48:23 kingless [n=user@adsl-144-179-180.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:30 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@202.36.179.65] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:50:41 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441929.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 23:51:29 Xach: oh oh... that's not good.. i think i know what's going on 23:54:05 Xach: danb still has dns records, and hs uses the same dns service i do. his take precendence. I'm contacting support now. 23:55:57 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1B720.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:57:27 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:58:08 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp