00:00:40 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:00:46 -!- skinnylover [n=skinnylo@195.238.188.231] has left #lisp 00:01:46 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-148.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 00:02:30 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:30 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:04:01 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:10:09 -!- jan247 [n=jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:11:15 jan247 [n=jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 00:13:49 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 00:15:35 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:16:40 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:23 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 00:24:03 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:29 can someone explain what exactly a continuation is? 00:26:48 and how they differ from functions or closures 00:29:01 OmniMancer: the fact that continuations can be called like functions in Scheme is a red herring and mostly a product of minimalism, I believe. 00:29:03 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["leaving"] 00:31:39 can you explain what a continuation is? 00:31:51 wikipedia can 00:34:20 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 00:36:17 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:36:19 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:37:54 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-34-110-14.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:39:18 -!- coliv [n=Coliveir@c-69-248-128-195.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:40:33 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-168-78-251.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:43:21 ..a mostly useless and mostly bad idea 00:43:33 continuations? 00:43:36 lnostdal: interesting assertion. 00:43:52 yes 00:44:03 continuations can be used to implement exception handling, non-local returns, and other useful things 00:44:39 pkhuong: so did you ever get around to adding SIMD primitives? your blog only mentions adding the storage class itself 00:45:36 slava: the primitives are just busy work once the storage class and type stuff is there. Should only take ~2-3 hours. 00:48:07 -!- ruediger_ [n=ruediger@91-115-25-98.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:48:16 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 00:49:24 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A99B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:50:41 The hardest part was the hack to get typed (float/integer) SSE values without introducing hidden slowdowns. 00:51:02 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@adsl-99-181-31-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Success] 00:53:02 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:55:24 -!- kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:55:37 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:38 OmniMancer: You can actually contrast Continuations and Closures. Where as a closure captures the bindings existing at a point in time (typically the lexical binding), Continuations capture the environment and the execution point. 00:57:32 So, for example, as you continue to enter in and escape from a Closure, your bindings "reset" whatever the closure has captured. 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don't know the issues myself 03:06:47 k 03:06:52 whoa, it runs in SBCL? Nice. 03:07:00 well, I haven't used it for much, 03:07:10 I use the binary distro 03:07:18 which uses GCL afik 03:07:25 and I installed it through macports. 03:07:38 I am on windows 03:08:45 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:06 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@75.36.204.63] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:09:07 -!- nvoorhies_ is now known as nvoorhies 03:10:39 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:12:21 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:15:13 OmniMancer: Maxima should run in CCL on Windows; at least it did back in March or so. 03:15:30 See, e.g., http://www.math.utexas.edu/pipermail/maxima/2009/016362.html 03:15:43 oh? 03:15:54 the binary installer they provide on source forge? 03:18:41 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:18:55 I don't think that CCL is widely popular in the Maxima development community; I doubt if they have CCL binaries. 03:19:00 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:19:30 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:50 k 03:21:51 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 03:23:45 I don't want to sound like I'm bad-mouthing CCL, of course... 03:24:18 is it a nativecode compiler? 03:24:32 OmniMancer: yes 03:25:33 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:25:43 as good as sbcl? 03:26:10 anyone know which is the best solution for writing gtk+/gnome applications using Common Lisp? 03:26:36 OmniMancer: CCL is probably better on Windows 03:26:44 OmniMancer: see http://trac.clozure.com/openmcl/ 03:26:47 does threading work? 03:27:40 I believe it does, but I haven't run the Windows version 03:27:55 *OmniMancer* shall investigate 03:28:32 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:28:39 sbcl has no threads on Windows 03:29:25 Yes, threads work on all platforms it supports. (disclaimer: I work on CCL, so take what I say with that in mind) 03:29:31 dto: For GTK cl-gtk2 looks fine, but it is not complete yet 03:29:44 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:17 I tried lambda-gtk too, but I did not use in any application 03:31:07 davazp: cl-gtk2 looks nice! 03:31:11 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:31:12 I know SBCL threads don't work on windows 03:31:29 ECL has windows threads, and I think XCL does too 03:32:10 XCL also has threads on all platforms, but XCL isn't really ready yet :) 03:32:53 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:02 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:35:06 OmniMancer1 [n=OmniManc@122-57-16-101.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:35:59 does sbcl generally have better numeric performance? 03:40:15 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 03:40:25 -!- ennen [n=nn@studio25.org] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:43:00 ?? 03:43:37 OmniMancer1: yes 03:44:05 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@222-154-176-48.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:44:13 -!- OmniMancer1 is now known as OmniMancer 03:47:42 antgreen [n=user@bas2-toronto06-1177888317.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:47:42 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.116.8] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:50:28 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 03:56:38 -!- pepone [n=pepone@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:03:16 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.116.8] has joined #lisp 04:05:19 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 04:06:00 simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:09:07 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp051.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [""You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." -RWE"] 04:11:12 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:11:17 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:11:55 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634139.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 04:12:48 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 04:12:52 redblue [i=star@ppp033.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:15:46 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:16:36 chris_bryant [n=chris_br@76.170.255.101] has joined #lisp 04:18:43 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:19:07 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:36:40 chessguy_work [n=chessguy@pool-173-73-92-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:03 -!- chessguy_work is now known as chessguy 04:40:11 -!- chris_bryant [n=chris_br@76.170.255.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:56:24 s0ber [i=pie@114-45-224-215.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:37 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:57 boingo 05:03:06 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:03:58 boingo? 05:04:48 girzel [n=user@123.121.225.0] has joined #lisp 05:06:43 hey OmniMancer 05:06:48 Yeah just boingo 05:06:52 -!- marioxcc [n=user@200.92.186.212] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:07:18 OmniMancer: What's new this beautiful saturday? 05:08:47 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 05:08:55 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-198-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:31 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:26 OmniMancer: I thought clisp had better numeric performance than clisp. 05:11:50 eeh 05:11:52 than sbc 05:11:53 l 05:12:23 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.116.8] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:14:09 -!- davazp [n=user@79.153.148.56] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:15:36 clisp runs maths intensive stuff faster than sbcl? 05:16:14 I was under the impression that is how things were 05:16:27 really? 05:16:34 clisp is interpreted... 05:17:05 I think clisp has faster bignums or something 05:17:18 OmniMancer: well bytecode anyway. 05:17:32 not nativecode... 05:17:37 anyway don't take my word for it. I just woke up, and it's just something I think I might have read somewhere. 05:17:53 sbcl does type inferencing though doesn't it? 05:19:07 slava: oh yeah. the clisp site says bignum is really fast, and floats are really slow. 05:19:11 sure. 05:19:17 for all I know maybe clisp does too. 05:19:34 maxima was fast enough for me with whatever I built it though (: 05:19:46 yay 05:20:00 Depends on what one is doing with it I guess 05:20:25 "While showing nothing spectacularly bad and easily outperforming Java, Perl, TCL and any Scheme interpreter, CLISP is slower than another open-source CL implementation, CMU CL, which outperforms C and FORTRAN. If your code is heavily numeric, you might prefer CMUCL, otherwise CLISP is a wise choice. 05:20:31 " 05:20:43 says clisp site. so I'm wrong. 05:21:08 that sounds like an obsolete remark to me 05:21:17 there's no way CMUCL is faster than modern C and Fortran compilers 05:21:22 "CMU CL, which outperforms C and FORTRAN" that's a funny one. 05:21:22 and Java is much faster than any CL on numerics 05:21:28 yes. 05:21:46 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.195.164] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 05:21:49 to be honest the whole clisp website seems a bit obsolote (: 05:22:02 but java has no nice macros or eval:D 05:22:12 OmniMancer: maybe if you use closure 05:22:21 clojure 05:22:22 damnit 05:22:23 clojure isn't too fast though 05:22:28 *schme* must find his coffee 05:22:40 AussieSteve [n=chatzill@dsl-203-33-161-2.NSW.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:23:40 -!- benny [n=benny@87.122.26.60] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:23:40 but common lisp is nice 05:24:17 OmniMancer: Yes. It's quite nice. 05:27:34 slava: I'm curious how unfast clojure really is 05:28:16 yoos [n=quassel@c-67-169-211-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:24 slyrus_: on high level code, its quite unfast 05:28:38 there are hacks to get it to use unboxed primitives and java arrays and so on but it ends up looking quite unclojure-like at that point 05:29:04 not unclojure, just ugly 05:29:05 huh. ok. seems like a neat idea though. 05:29:18 I'm sure it will get better eventually 05:29:21 same thing you do to haskell code, performance tuning is ugly in general 05:30:16 same thing you do to haskell code.. rm * ? ;) 05:30:36 to certain extend, i doubt it will ever be as fast as scala 05:33:40 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 05:34:22 schme: Follow the simple rules... You will feel good 05:34:39 use common lisp? 05:35:20 -!- salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [] 05:35:39 Makoryu: What be those? 05:35:42 *schme* feels good (: 05:36:57 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:37:27 schme: http://www.lisperati.com/landoflisp/panel03.html 05:37:35 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:38:15 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:41:26 Makoryu: What a strange comic. 05:41:35 You've never seen that? 05:42:25 ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 05:42:42 -!- slackjaw [n=jolyonw@124-168-253-144.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit ["Computer goes to sleep!"] 05:43:25 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:43:35 ak70 [n=ak70@195.158.89.22] has joined #lisp 05:44:07 -!- ak70 [n=ak70@195.158.89.22] has left #lisp 05:46:32 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-34-110-14.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:01 No. 05:49:14 *OmniMancer* giggles at the stupidity. 05:51:58 well I prefer to use the tool that works best :P 05:52:50 also the type checker denying you heterogeneous lists is bad 05:53:11 Hi, everyone. 05:53:14 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 05:53:44 OmniMancer: what do you use heterogeneous lists for? 05:54:05 OmniMancer: Although this is an indisputable objective fact that everyone knows, I'm curious what your explanation of it is 05:54:25 well its not always bad 05:54:49 but most of the lisp uses for them are not valid if you can't put different types in lists 05:55:27 you can't have code as lists unless you have an ultimate generic type but that would be annoying and defeat the purpose of the type checking 05:55:42 (There are extensions that allow heterogeneous lists in Haskell so long as all the values share a typeclass) 05:55:54 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:06 Right, no general purpose s-expressions 05:56:10 OmniMancer: code is not lists in haskell 05:56:23 the closest analgue to s-expressions is algebraic data types 05:56:43 did I say code was lists in haskell? 05:57:01 I am talking about heterogeneous lists not haskells ones in particular 05:57:22 you can't do alists in haskell 05:57:37 Yeah you can 05:57:46 well you can have a list of pairs 05:57:58 alists are useless anyway 05:58:06 indeed 05:59:04 OmniMancer: A tuple is a fixed-length heterogeneous data structure, eg. (Int,String,Etc) 05:59:38 *OmniMancer* knows, is not an idiot and has dabbled a little in haskell 05:59:48 I say the biggest problem that lisp would have if it had static type checking like haskell is that the reader and macros would all die 06:00:15 macrs wouldn't necessarily be a problem 06:00:19 if you type check after macro expansion 06:00:38 I'm sure I saw some static type checked one with lisp style macros. 06:00:43 some short name of the language.. 06:00:44 hrrrm 06:00:46 nonono you see the problem is that the macros could not manipulate lists of code... 06:00:53 schme: Liskell, by any chance? 06:00:57 Qi 06:01:01 nope, nope 06:01:02 OmniMancer: for macros to work you just need to expose the AST, and not use s-expressions for the AST per se 06:01:04 Ah, Qi 06:01:12 no, not qi 06:01:24 not Qi? 06:01:57 but the fact that you have lists that don't have to be homogenous makes it very easy to manipulate the ask 06:01:59 asty 06:02:00 ast 06:02:20 ATS. That's it. 06:02:29 ats? 06:02:36 you can do pattern matching on algebraic data types so they're not hard to manipulate 06:02:45 in fact writing compilers and code transformatin tools is one thing that ML-likes are good at 06:02:48 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-99-186-246-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:03:02 but then you have to define the entire AST as one type 06:03:13 yeah 06:03:27 but you can make it as minimal as you want 06:03:44 I still like the minimalism of lisp 06:04:00 lisp is minimal now? *looks at the hyperspec* 06:04:09 I mean in this respect 06:04:16 code is data 06:04:29 *Adlai* hits OmniMancer over the head with a copy of ANSI Common Lisp (the spec, not the "novel") 06:04:30 I like homoiconic languages 06:04:33 "code is data" is not as uncommon as lisp wants it to be. 06:04:36 even prolog does it. 06:04:44 yes 06:04:53 C almost has "code is data" 06:04:57 but last I checked prolog wasn't statically typed either 06:04:59 but C doesn't have strings... 06:05:10 C has things that can be used as strings 06:05:20 not just the code is data 06:05:24 even asm has "code is data" ;) 06:05:30 but in lisp it is easy to fiddle with 06:05:36 OmniMancer: I was making fun of how sometimes people say that every language has "code is data" if it can push bits around. 06:05:53 in asm you have to understand the entire archetecture 06:06:06 well not really, but ok :) 06:06:24 the problem is not that code is data but more that it is easy to manipulate the code as data 06:06:51 Right. That's what I'm saying. in asm you manipulate your code as easily as you manipulate your data. Same with lisp there, eh :) 06:07:04 no 06:07:11 not really 06:07:27 asm is not very highly abstracted 06:07:29 OmniMancer: http://www.ats-lang.org/TUTORIAL/contents/macros.html 06:07:36 That is what I was looking for. 06:07:44 Actually, considering how much effort it takes to manipulate any data in assembler.... 06:08:04 static typing, and macros. boggles the mind, eh ;) 06:08:39 also 06:08:46 are those really lisp like macros? 06:08:53 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-17.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:08:53 That's waht it says. 06:08:57 lisp like macros are code that runs to produce code 06:09:10 Yup. 06:09:36 that looks somewhat like only the backquote notation... 06:09:39 OmniMancer: I can't imagine what a macro system could possibly do aside from that. 06:09:54 string substitution? 06:09:57 OmniMancer: It even be using ` and , (: 06:10:07 silas [n=silas@201-1-151-121.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 06:10:10 -!- silas [n=silas@201-1-151-121.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #lisp 06:10:21 OmniMancer: That qualifies as generating code, even if only on a purely textual level. 06:10:27 I mean 06:10:34 well time to go out exercising. ta ta :) 06:10:35 can one say have a loop macro? 06:11:06 or even better can one have a macro that takes a grammar definition and expands to the code for a parser of that grammar? 06:11:07 ¯\O_o/¯ 06:11:14 Heh 06:11:29 OmniMancer: I'd think so, yes. But I don't use it so maybe not, eh? 06:11:39 *schme* sticks to forth, asm and lisp. Like normal people :) 06:11:41 in lisp you can because the macro can perform computations and such in the lisp language 06:11:42 *schme* pops off. 06:14:20 -!- yoos [n=quassel@c-67-169-211-13.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit ["sleepy.."] 06:15:08 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:15:44 I still think that the system there is not quite like lisp 06:17:51 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 06:20:37 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:22:51 what does defmacro actually do behind the scenes? 06:23:06 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E47723.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:19 OmniMancer: You haven't implemented your own lisp to try it out? 06:24:53 no 06:25:08 but I am specifically interested in common lisps behavious 06:25:13 behaviour 06:31:03 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:51 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 06:32:59 vmmenon [n=vmmenon@c-76-121-83-217.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:34 -!- mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 06:35:42 -!- p_l [n=pl@cpc1-cove10-0-0-cust514.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 06:37:05 -!- vmmenon [n=vmmenon@c-76-121-83-217.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:49:53 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:50:21 hello 06:52:35 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 07:04:19 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:43 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Absquatulandus sum"] 07:05:31 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:09:53 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.52.247] has joined #lisp 07:11:12 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:13:47 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:14:36 thom_logn [n=thom@173.51.164.80] has joined #lisp 07:19:37 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:19:58 ejs [n=eugen@31-9-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:35 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6B58C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:52 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:25:27 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-221-61.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:30:36 benny [n=benny@i577A1728.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:31:45 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 07:37:15 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 07:40:50 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:38 s0ber_ [i=pie@114-45-229-95.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:15 McClim is not working for me. I can compile and load program, but when I type a command to load a file the space between the command and filename is lost, and therefore the error: does not match 07:44:19 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6B58C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:44:32 manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6B58C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:19 what command? where? 07:45:22 -!- s0ber [i=pie@114-45-224-215.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:45:31 ljames [n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 07:47:36 stassats, The example on page 7 of the mcclim user manual, has a command prompt on the bottom pane. 07:48:28 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@173.51.164.80] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:48:34 stassats, Same with beach's dictionary program. 07:48:35 hey hey 07:48:39 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-179-70-9.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:43 hi 07:48:47 There's a mcclim user manual? 07:48:49 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:02 there is 07:49:19 *stassats* is building it right now 07:49:57 lat: I'm not totally surprised it is not working. It is one of the joys of mcclim.. finding malfunctions, and figuring out just what the heck... 07:51:17 stassats, if I type load vietanh.dict the program sees it as "loadvietanh.dict" 07:52:37 chris_bryant [n=chris_br@cpe-75-84-206-87.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:52:58 do you have a link to beach's vietanamese program handy? 07:53:25 example on the 7 page doesn't have any commands defined 07:53:47 Elench [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:53:50 stassats, checking. 07:56:20 stassats, here i think: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/Vietnamese/ 07:57:10 there's no tarball? 07:57:50 stassats, I think not. 07:58:43 ok, recursive wget helps 08:00:44 well, why did you think there is Load command? 08:00:56 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:00:57 Read Dico vietanh.dict 08:01:40 works fine 08:02:06 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:33 Ogedei [n=user@e178218212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:03:16 stassats, I remembered load instead of read. I'll try again. 08:03:24 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 08:03:35 right mouse click shows all commands 08:03:38 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 08:04:03 Read Dico for dictionary, Read Text for text 08:04:09 it's intuitive! 08:04:39 serichsen [n=svante@hmbg-4d0663a7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:44 good morning 08:04:50 why is it named "Dico", i don't know 08:05:08 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-34-110-14.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:05:13 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.52.247] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:06:25 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-26-88.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:06:29 -!- kerc [n=riise@31.84-49-151.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:12:38 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 08:14:13 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.220.252] has joined #lisp 08:15:39 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.52.247] has joined #lisp 08:16:56 stassats, this time it just locked up. I'll close emacs and start over. 08:18:34 lispm [n=joswig@f054052191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:19:45 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 08:20:11 jaws [n=jolyonw@124-168-253-144.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:20:16 nha [n=prefect@17-70.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:20:34 -!- chris_bryant [n=chris_br@cpe-75-84-206-87.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:21:38 lispm_ [n=rooms@f054052191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:22:17 -!- deech` [n=user@24-107-144-116.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:22:18 -!- deech [n=user@24-107-144-116.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:22:20 -!- lispm_ [n=rooms@f054052191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 08:22:37 lispm_ [n=rooms@f054052191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:22:38 deech` [n=user@24-107-144-116.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 08:22:41 deech [n=user@24-107-144-116.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:28 We have good weather here in Hamburg for the ECLM 08:23:35 -!- lispm [n=joswig@f054052191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 08:24:29 -!- lispm_ [n=rooms@f054052191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:24:43 oh is it eclm time? 08:25:46 -!- Elench [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:29:34 -!- simplechat [n=simple@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:30:28 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp033.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:45:37 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:46:26 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:47:46 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.52.247] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:48:09 mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.52.247] has joined #lisp 08:50:49 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:51:47 kami-` [n=user@dslb-084-059-197-226.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:52 redblue [i=star@ppp106.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 08:55:13 stassats, it can now read in text, but it locks up when trying to read the dictionary. Then I have to kill the sbcl process to get it to close. 08:56:04 <_3b> is there anything in *inferior-lisp*? 08:58:22 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-12-126.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:58:29 _3b, I'm not sure I understand what *inferior-lisp* is? 08:58:43 spilman [n=spilman@92.135.203.251] has joined #lisp 08:58:48 it's a buffer 08:58:50 <_3b> a buffer in emacs (i'm assuming you are running things from slime) 08:59:06 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:59:06 fiveop [n=fiveop@92.229.242.110] has joined #lisp 08:59:11 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-68-51-134-164.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:17 <_3b> otherwise, standard output from wherever you started the sbcl process 08:59:36 Anyone ever read Knuths books? 08:59:56 sure 09:01:58 I'm using slime. There is no such buffer right now, I'll restart the program and then check again. 09:02:01 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:03:00 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-43-186.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:03:31 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 09:03:43 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:32 ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:06:52 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:07:20 _3b, ok, the window is open, and still no *inferior-lisp* buffer. I'll enter a command and then look. 09:07:41 <_3b> lat: if you started lisp outside emacs, you won't have that buffer 09:08:07 <_3b> but it should output the same thing to wherever you started it 09:08:41 _3b, I'm in emacs, using slime. 09:09:55 <_3b> lat: right, that doesn't say how you started lisp... if you just typed M-x slime, you should have an *inferior-lisp* buffer in emacs... if you start lisp, and run a swank server by hand, then M-x slime-connect, you will not have that buffer 09:11:16 Krystof [n=csr21@ABordeaux-257-1-34-129.w90-45.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:12:41 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:13:03 I see the problem. Since I upgraded slime several days ago, it no longer alway accesses the proper directory. 09:13:16 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:15 _3b, At least I think that is the problem. 09:18:29 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 09:20:10 Geralt [n=Geralt@p5B32D4F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:44 leo2007 [n=leo@131.111.223.202] has joined #lisp 09:25:55 anyone use clnuplot? 09:27:20 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 09:27:32 Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-70-244.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:27:34 manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6F0A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:41 _3b, and stassats , even I manually change to the right directory, I get: error opening #P"/home/lat/lisp/dict/vietanh.text": No such file or directory 09:28:10 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-16-101.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:28:52 But both directory and filename are correct, so far as I can see." 09:29:10 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-16-101.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:30:33 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-29-198.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:30:34 <_3b> lat: are you sure it isn't .dict ? 09:30:53 Anyway, typing in the wrong filename should not make the program lock up should it. 09:31:48 _3b, yes its .dict. I'll try again. 09:39:31 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:40:01 c|mell [n=cmell@x250053.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 09:42:13 _3b, and stassats , works now. The problem is with the new slime upgrade. It doesn't start the program in the directory where I start emacs. I had to use ,cd to get it to stay there. 09:43:58 slime inherits default directory of the buffer where you start it 09:44:15 it was so as long as i remember 09:44:28 I can confirm that. 09:44:30 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@pD9E6B58C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 09:44:32 ruediger [n=ruediger@188-23-190-224.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:44:34 stassats, it doesn't for me. 09:44:57 either you think it doesn't, or you are doing something wrong 09:45:27 -!- Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-70-244.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46:32 stassats, are you using the latest version of slime? 09:46:45 always, yes 09:48:44 did you understand what i said? it inherits buffer's directory, not where emacs was started 09:51:12 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@92.229.242.110] has quit ["humhum"] 09:51:14 fiveop_ [n=fiveop@g229242110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:52:49 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:53:56 stassats, I typed emacs /home/lat/lisp/dict to start. The I pick the file I want to work with. Slime loads automatically without me typing anything. Is there some way to make it load automatically in the directory where I start emacs? or is that not a good idea for some reason? 09:54:06 -!- Ogedei [n=user@e178218212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:55:41 stassats, well I'm beginning to understand. 09:55:44 i think it's not a good idea 09:56:03 you can sync directory with C-c ~ 09:58:11 stassats, I didn't know that. That simplifies things. 09:58:42 (and it also synchronizes packages) 09:59:03 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:59:58 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 10:00:25 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest69058 10:02:26 stassats, and _3b , many thanks! This has me past some confusion. 10:03:41 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 10:07:09 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has joined #lisp 10:07:31 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 10:08:49 drafael [n=tapio@130.216.93.124] has joined #lisp 10:09:32 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483D958.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:22 -!- manuel___ [n=manuel@pD9E6F0A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 10:22:19 ignas [n=ignas@78.63.105.97] has joined #lisp 10:24:53 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-116-217.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:27:38 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:27:57 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:10 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 10:29:51 mishoo_ [n=mishoo@79.112.52.247] has joined #lisp 10:30:09 -!- mishoo [n=mishoo@79.112.52.247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:30:48 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 10:34:05 chris2 [n=chris@p5B1698A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:19 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has quit ["so long.."] 10:34:38 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has joined #lisp 10:36:54 How can I sort unicode text alphabetically? 10:37:12 CHAR< 10:37:24 except that collations probably don't work 10:37:55 What do you mean by collations? 10:38:26 weirdo pasted "example for lat about how collations are broken" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86972 10:40:13 is there any reason not to use CL-CONTAINERS? 10:40:25 -!- drafael [n=tapio@130.216.93.124] has quit [No buffer space available] 10:40:49 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has quit ["so long.."] 10:41:07 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has joined #lisp 10:41:37 Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:42:03 weirdo, what are cl-containers? 10:42:53 minion: cl-containers? 10:42:53 cl-containers: CL-containers adds binary search trees, red-black trees, sparse arrays, and other useful containers. http://www.cliki.net/cl-containers 10:44:58 angerman [n=angerman@host41.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:45:13 With cl-containers will collations work? 10:45:48 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:46:02 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-116-217.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit ["blub"] 10:47:50 I want to sort like a phone book would be sorted. 10:49:23 a with all its accent marks must come before b. 10:49:50 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-201.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:52:01 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 10:54:36 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:59 tagac [n=user@208.37.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:00:39 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 11:02:46 lat, no, i didn't refer to you 11:03:19 i saw someone dissin' cl-containers on c.l.l and i wonder if it's a good practive to use it 11:05:20 :>) I was looking hard for "sort" on that page. 11:07:44 -!- Guest69058 is now known as lexa_ 11:08:14 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest6562 11:11:46 It seems that Allegro CL supports sorting with collation: http://franz.com/support/documentation/current/doc/iacl.htm 11:13:10 The current Default Unicode Collation Element Table is provided in the following data file: http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr10/allkeys.txt 11:16:27 Does sbcl have those same functions? 11:18:27 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-33.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:24:55 ok, I'm off for the hamburg tour 11:24:56 bye 11:25:06 -!- serichsen [n=svante@hmbg-4d0663a7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["leaving"] 11:28:23 lat: I can't find anything on that page that mentions sorting .. where should I look? 11:32:28 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 11:33:25 lat, you can make your own CHAR< 11:33:36 lat, feel free to release a library 11:33:52 i'll contribute polish collations to it if you wish 11:35:08 salva [n=salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:35:57 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483D958.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:37:19 bwat74 [n=bwat@host-90-232-71-169.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:41:50 rvirding [n=chatzill@h69n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 11:43:21 Sorry, I went to eat. weirdo, I'm just a newbie. But if I create a library, I'll release it. 11:43:52 lat: christophe is afaik working on improving some of this stuff in sbcl 11:44:09 no idea what the timeframe is, though -- he's busybusybusy 11:45:09 (this stuff == unicode support, including things like better sorting) 11:45:17 schme, go to section 7.0 on that franz link. 11:47:07 lat: oh there. thanks. Excellent. 11:47:10 -!- namor [n=namor@dslb-088-072-253-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:47:55 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 11:48:08 -!- Guest6562 is now known as lexa_ 11:48:38 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest44301 11:48:49 nikodemus, yes, he told me it might take a while for him to do whatever he is doing. He just say exactly what he is working on. Hopefully, he will work on sorting first. 11:49:58 Is Allegro CL closed source? 11:50:56 -!- Guest44301 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 11:51:26 yes lat 11:51:40 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:52:03 Figured so. 11:52:34 although they have a lot of opensource libs 11:52:58 -!- bwat74 [n=bwat@host-90-232-71-169.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:54:44 The unicode.org link I posted may be the key to sorting with collations. 11:57:06 Xof, please work on sorting with collations 11:57:11 first. 11:58:54 weirdo, I just realized what you said. Do you already have sorting with collations working? 11:59:25 lat, i don't 11:59:41 lat, what's needed is a list of lowercase alphabet of given language 12:01:14 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:01:20 weirdo, did you look at this file: http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr10/allkeys.txt 12:02:01 Is 12:02:17 that what you need? 12:02:24 -!- fiveop_ [n=fiveop@g229242110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 12:04:27 yes! 12:04:42 See this also: http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr10/ 12:06:12 Wow! There is a lot to read there. 12:06:21 there's somethign wrong with fuzzy 12:06:25 it won't complete 12:06:33 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 12:07:01 i'll restart emacs 12:07:11 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c142-5.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:07:52 weirdo [n=sthalik@c142-5.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:08:13 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229242110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:08:32 -!- weirdo is now known as Guest27670 12:09:29 -!- Guest27670 [n=sthalik@c142-5.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:09:45 weirdo2 [n=sthalik@c142-5.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:10:28 -!- weirdo2 is now known as weirdo 12:10:59 weirdo, your x-chat client is in emacs? 12:11:17 lat, it's ERC, not x-chat 12:11:27 perhaps you've meant IRC 12:12:34 weirdo, I'm tired. My softrware is called xChat. 12:12:38 lat: xchat is just an application to connect to irc, just like mIRC, irssi, bitchx, xchat, ERC etc 12:12:44 but I guess you know that 12:13:17 frak, fuzzy is broken 12:13:20 skinnylover [n=skinnylo@195.238.188.231] has joined #lisp 12:13:43 When I get tired I start mixing up terms. 12:14:12 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:14:18 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:14:36 weirdo, what is fuzzy? 12:14:48 lat, fuzzy completion 12:14:56 but is broken in lisp-mode, doesn't complete 12:15:22 i press tab and nothing happens 12:19:48 i even started bare emacs 12:19:52 emacs -Q 12:20:10 loaded slime-fancy, changed slime-complete-symbol-function to fuzzy and it doesn't work 12:22:51 you know what? 12:23:06 by default the tab key doesn't get bound to slime-indent-and-complete-symbol 12:23:46 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 12:28:37 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:29:42 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:32:45 Ralith [n=ralith@69.90.48.127] has joined #lisp 12:33:00 lhz [n=shrekz@213.114.170.185] has joined #lisp 12:34:06 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-29-198.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:36:18 -!- antgreen [n=user@bas2-toronto06-1177888317.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:38:54 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250053.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:40:39 c|mell [n=cmell@KD124213182069.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:42:19 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@32.159.91.159] has joined #lisp 12:42:38 can you tabcomplete when editing a file btw? it only works in the repl 12:42:42 talking about emacs + slime 12:43:02 and it's been buggering me for quite some time 12:45:25 did you try esc-tab? 12:46:24 mhh, not really 12:47:05 thx ljames :) 12:47:29 np, I need to find a way to make it work with normal TAB too, but never bothered 12:47:39 it's normally bound to M-Tab i think 12:50:22 I use `C-c C-i' 12:52:17 *Xach* also uses C-c C-i 12:52:29 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:53:04 jeej \o/ 12:53:29 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@AMontsouris-152-1-35-147.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:53:58 COLLATE> *key->position-mapping* 12:53:58 # 12:53:59 :-) 12:54:06 PissedNumlock, you can try to google for a function called indent-or-complete -- I once had one of those 12:54:38 PissedNumlock, or check if your emacs has one 12:55:01 oh, the C-c C-i is good enough 12:55:10 -!- AussieSteve [n=chatzill@dsl-203-33-161-2.NSW.netspace.net.au] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:56:45 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634139.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:59:55 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@32.159.91.159] has quit [] 13:00:55 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #lisp 13:05:38 -!- prip [n=_prip@host185-130-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:08:31 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229242110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 13:19:59 weirdo, do you have collation working already? 13:20:02 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229242110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:20:08 lat, i'm finishing it 13:20:42 but i'm not sure it'll work for anything but sbcl 13:20:44 you can test it, though 13:21:21 if it won't work on all unicode lisps, i know of a way to make it work 13:21:46 weirdo, I use sbcl. So that is what I need. 13:25:55 weirdo, my first lisp project is finished, except for proper sorting. So you are the man for the hour. 13:27:12 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-16-101.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:28:32 lat, ok i'm done, now to package it 13:32:41 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-30-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:32:47 Amazingly fast, weirdo ! 13:33:07 now it works, as i loaded it after purging all fasls 13:34:22 -!- girzel [n=user@123.121.225.0] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:37:25 i'm having some problems with packages, gimme 5 minutes 13:38:20 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@206.80.252.37] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:38:36 weirdo, I'll give you 10, but no more. :>) 13:38:39 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:38:40 Geralt1 [n=Geralt@91.50.193.131] has joined #lisp 13:38:42 :P 13:39:02 -!- Geralt1 is now known as Geralt 13:41:47 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h69n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:43:43 girzel [n=user@123.121.225.0] has joined #lisp 13:44:28 CL-USER> (collate:char< #\a #\ #\b) ==> T 13:44:38 but i forgot to do the same for string functions 13:45:13 i mean, i created all CHAR* functions, but no strings 13:46:03 rvirding [n=chatzill@h69n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:56 weirdo, that's ok, I give you another 10 minutes. You are amazing! 13:48:03 :D 13:48:17 man, this is lisp 13:48:24 there's no boilerplate 13:48:27 (define-char-function char-not-lessp >= cl:char-not-greaterp :key char-downcase) 13:48:44 oh, copypasta made a bug! 13:50:00 weirdo, how long have you been using lisp? 13:50:12 lat, a year 13:50:27 but i already have some CS background, through totally informal 13:51:19 That is really encouraging! 13:53:36 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 13:56:28 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [""] 13:58:11 ThomasIl [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 13:59:25 gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:51 hi, in slime-repl i 'm trying iterate library and i need write (iterate::iter (iterate::for i iterate::from 1 iterate::to 10) 14:00:51 (iterate::collect i)) , how can i avoid write all namespaces? thanks 14:01:40 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:13 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-100-204.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:04:43 clhs use-package 14:04:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_use_pk.htm 14:04:46 clhs defpackage 14:04:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpkg.htm 14:04:55 salva, for you 14:05:11 ok, thanks 14:05:43 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-84-207.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 14:07:10 -!- kami-` [n=user@dslb-084-059-197-226.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:07:26 weirdo, I am in suspense. 14:08:01 lat, i'm probably already done, but i need to see if it's correct 14:09:46 stupid CL functions have so complicated specs 14:10:11 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E442F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:17 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:12:18 -!- girzel [n=user@123.121.225.0] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:12:31 kssreeram [n=kssreera@122.174.135.218] has joined #lisp 14:13:57 okay, it works 14:13:59 i'm releasing it 14:14:01 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:14:15 kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:44 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:15:45 uploading :) 14:16:37 lat, http://tehran.lain.pl/git.web/collate 14:16:55 -!- Geralt [n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:17:24 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:20 if you find any bugs msg me or send me an email to sthalik@tehran.lain.pl 14:20:00 blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:07 knuckles [n=knuckles@81.200.28.119] has joined #lisp 14:20:38 weirdo, does the snapshot contain all the code? Is that all I need to download? 14:21:05 I'm using git 14:21:27 looks like you are also. 14:21:39 -!- younder [n=jthing@84.202.13.251] has left #lisp 14:22:02 younder [n=jthing@251.13.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 14:22:07 lat, it does. you also need to have iterate, use clbuild install iterate 14:22:19 you know how to install asdf systems, do you? 14:22:19 -!- deech [n=user@24-107-144-116.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:22:19 -!- deech` [n=user@24-107-144-116.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:22:25 i added a small readme 14:22:51 deech` [n=user@24-107-144-116.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:22:53 deech [n=user@24-107-144-116.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:17 I'm studying asdf now. 14:24:22 I'll test and get back with you. Probably Monday or Tuesday. 14:24:25 I 14:25:06 I can hardly how fast you did this. Many, many thanks! 14:27:55 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E47723.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:28:06 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:28:29 lat, :) 14:28:32 lat, quick start: 14:28:39 cd to the directory with COLLATE 14:28:48 ln -s `pwd`/*.asd ~/.sbcl/systems/ 14:28:57 now (require 'asdf) (require 'collate) 14:29:14 if you don't have ITERATE, do the same ln(1) invocation 14:29:29 if the directory ~/.sbcl/systems/ doesn't exist, make it 14:29:50 -!- redblue [i=star@ppp106.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:35:54 tsuru` [n=user@c-76-22-154-126.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:54 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-76-22-154-126.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:36:41 weirdo, is there anything else I need to know? 14:37:11 lat, know about what? lisp programming? 14:37:24 hey ho 14:38:10 weirdo, your collation code. 14:39:16 lat, one thing. i'll add it to README 14:39:16 hmm.. 14:39:18 -!- Hazelesque [n=hazel@yamada.9noc.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:39:35 I'm curious about this collate thing. Will it sorta" (a with the " over, yeah) before b? 14:39:35 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:42 (can't type it here) 14:41:59 weirdo, thanks again! I going to bed. Its late here. I probably won't be able to sleep though. I'm excited. 14:42:19 schme, that depends on which collation you apply. 14:42:29 Jafet: lovely. 14:42:41 Also, ÄLOL 14:43:10 hmm 14:43:31 Jafet: I was wondering about this collate library specifically here. 14:43:32 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 14:44:04 I've seen odd thing when sorting swedish text (: 14:44:04 Ok, then someone else should answer 14:44:34 schme: there are multiple collation schemes (locale dependent). A collation library should allow one to choose the appropriate scheme. 14:45:01 lat, :-) 14:45:34 schme, weirdo just released this: http://tehran.lain.pl/git.web/collate 14:45:52 pkhuong: That sounds like something that would be good yeah.. (: 14:46:00 lat: I don't quite have a lisp here to test it out :S 14:46:09 lat: But it is what I am asking about 14:46:42 Good night everyone! Bye. 14:48:23 I guess it uses that there allkeys.txt so it might be right, or might be wrong :) 14:48:35 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:48:47 Perhaps you should read about what a collation is...? 14:48:57 Why? 14:49:01 it can parse an alternative file. perhaps support for switching between them can be added 14:49:15 Or I misread 14:49:27 Jafet: I am specifically wondering about how this library will sort a specific thing. I don't think reading what collation is will help. 14:50:03 -!- deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:50:32 I'd even try it out but I can't seem to ssh home. 14:50:45 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 14:51:13 Jafet, http://tinyurl.com/pc3dx2 14:51:16 works for me with polish stuff 14:51:20 horray! 14:51:28 well good work anyway (: 14:51:56 -!- knuckles [n=knuckles@81.200.28.119] has left #lisp 14:54:39 :) 14:54:43 mention me on planet lisp :) 14:54:55 Hi guys, I'm using sbcl on linux and would like to communicate over a serial port in a lisp program. Since the serial port is just a file on linux, is it possible to just "use" it (and set baudrate etc in a lispy way) or do I need ffi and termios? 14:55:00 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:55:34 <``Erik> setting baud rate is an ioctl, no? so some form of ffi would be needed, I'd imagine 14:55:48 Sikander: depends on what you mean by "just use it". If you go with the straight ioctl approach, it ain't gonna be lispy either way 14:55:51 Sikander, use osicat or iolib-posix 14:56:15 -!- kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 105 (No buffer space available)] 14:56:15 write a library that does ffi crap and write lispy code that uses that library :) 14:56:18 then it'll be lispy 14:57:17 raptelan_ [n=Casey@c-68-49-132-34.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:50 Well, it would be cool to do a with-open-file but with a serial port. And it wasn't clear to me how to convert a lisp stream to a file descriptor to be used with termios functions 14:58:08 I'll have a look at osicat and/or iolib-posix 14:58:47 chessguy_ [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:58 Sikander: how do you imagine it working? Lisp is not magic, it ain't gonna magically wrap the "device-as-file" unixism just because you opened a device file 15:00:02 <``Erik> "(with-file :baud 19200" would require some fu 15:00:11 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1728.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:00:28 envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has joined #lisp 15:00:38 mathrick: I would have imagined it to work by using ioctl on the file descriptor, and then just reading from/writing to the file, "like in C". But I'd have to wrap the ioctl or termios stuff somehow and be able to get the descriptor from the stream 15:01:09 exactly 15:01:37 so some wrapping with cffi should do the trick, but how to get the fd from a lisp stream? Is it possible? 15:01:48 so unless you provide Lisp with that knowledge, a ttyS file is going to be just that, a file 15:02:07 Sikander: that's implementation-specific, but iolib wraps it 15:02:07 I know, that's why I was talking ioctl, termios, ffi etc 15:02:36 so it should let you make an FD stream in all supported implementations 15:02:43 Great 15:02:45 thanks! 15:03:47 amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@charanda.shochu.sandino.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:55 btw, why isn't there anything like this already floating around (like, say, pyserial for python)? 15:05:31 there probably is 15:05:40 it might simply be hard to find 15:05:47 or maybe have already bitrotted 15:06:34 -!- amnesiac_ is now known as amnesiac 15:06:39 Sikander: There aren't serial ports around anymore :) 15:06:53 schme: weird, I use them all the time 15:07:20 yeah me too. But somehow they are not there on freshly designed computers. 15:07:51 schme: depends on the mainboard, but mostly I use a usb-serial thingy 15:08:04 converter I guess the word is 15:08:51 d'oh! io-lib errors during compilation when asdf-installing 15:09:08 iolib I mean 15:09:10 Sikander: I am having bad luck with usb-serial converters. 15:09:11 -!- jaws [n=jolyonw@124-168-253-144.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit ["Computer goes to sleep!"] 15:09:21 Sikander: no idea what the mainboard here is. Just some random thinkpad (: 15:09:30 but good luck there with the iolib anyway. 15:10:03 *``Erik* is annoyed because his usb/serial dongle doesn't talk to his serial OBDII box right, has to lug an old tower out to mess with his car 15:10:11 -!- envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.110] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:10:35 schme: In the lab where I work, the sysadmin makes sure that he always buys mainboards with serial ports. Otherwise, he also tested usb/serial dongles and found several which work well with linux and windows 15:10:54 Never had a problem with the dongles on my laptop 15:11:03 Sikander: That's nice.. problem is with laptops one seldom has the luxury of picking mainboards :) 15:11:24 Sikander: This brings up hope for me though, there actually *are* converts to usb that work :) 15:11:24 That's why I use the dongle on my laptop 15:11:34 <``Erik> sikander: can ya provide the data? I tend to buy mac laptops... :) 15:11:58 Ah, I don't know about mac, don't use one myself 15:12:33 I can find out about the ones that I use; I think they are from sitecom. Lemme google a bit to see if I can visually identify it 15:12:58 <``Erik> either way, if a dongle has a "does not work with linux", it's probably best worth avoiding :) 15:13:33 -!- raptelan [n=Casey@c-68-49-132-34.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:49 <``Erik> a compatability grid would probably be a good thing for geeks, I haven't seen one yet 15:13:54 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:14:39 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-74-104-123-150.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:27 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-33.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:15:48 ``Erik, schme : This one works well with linux (or at least, for me) http://www.sitecom.com/product.php?productname=USB+to+serial+adapter&productcode=CN-116&productid=137&subgroupid=20 15:16:06 Sikander: thanks a bunch! I will check it out :) 15:16:24 schme: Good luck. Now if I can only get iolib to compile... 15:16:26 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-73-92-224.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:16:33 qbg [n=chatzill@x-146-57-84-115.mrs.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 15:16:40 I love how they put "USB compatible" there 15:17:03 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 15:17:25 <``Erik> just a windows icon, though 15:18:06 -!- chessguy_ is now known as chessguy 15:18:20 taht's normal though.. manufacturers don't really care about linux. 15:18:38 my ps-controller->usb also says windows. works juuust fine on both linux and netbsd :) 15:19:06 I also don't remember setting any special kernel options. But lemme check for a minute 15:19:15 It really has nothing to do with Windows, either. 15:19:21 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:01 Maybe just the usb generic serial driver. 15:21:08 in the kernel, I mean 15:21:46 *schme* looks for some place selling these babies in the civilized world ;) 15:22:06 Any system that implements USB properly should magically support many of its peripherals 15:22:10 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has quit ["so long.."] 15:22:18 Sikander: what is the problem with iolib? 15:22:39 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has left #lisp 15:23:40 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-34-110-14.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:53 schme: that's a good question; I find sbcl's output rather cryptic. Still trying to figure it out. 15:24:21 freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:24:50 Cryptic output is the best 15:25:30 I like to think of Lisp as a piece of "The Jetsons" brought to life as a programming language, so SBCL is a perfect fit 15:25:39 As far as I understand, in DEFMETHOD ZSTREAM-WRITE-ELEMENT the asserted type conflicts with a derived type 15:25:57 Sikander: using slime helps make sense of it 15:25:59 Hi! I am using swank and "do-symbols" from there to get list of symbols in a package. I wonder what is the difference between single colon symbols "cl-ppcre:do-scans" and double-colon symbols "cl-ppcre:start"? are single colon symbols ones that are "provided" by package? 15:26:00 Makoryu: now _that_s cryptic 15:26:14 "cl-ppcre::start" 15:26:23 single colon are exported 15:26:29 freiksenet: two colons means that the symbol is not exported from the package 15:26:42 okay, that's what I though too. Thanks a lot 15:26:45 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_export.htm has some info 15:26:51 Sikander: Surely you see the relation? Lisp is a bit arcane, and soooo disco (dude), but at the same time... IT'S A FLYING CAR 15:26:52 Xach: Yes, slime... I don't use slime/emacs *shame* 15:26:59 well, you can access exported symbols with two colons too 15:27:08 And also a flying cdr 15:27:12 Makoryu: heheh I never looked at it that way 15:27:53 Still not as practical as a jetpack, but great fun nonetheless ;) 15:28:11 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.220.252] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 15:29:25 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h69n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 15:30:14 I don't know, as far as I understand sbcl's output, it was a warning only, so I just accepted. We'll see what happens 15:30:59 Is there any way to automate system loading? when I work on my system I need to do (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'NAME) every time I start emacs :( 15:31:43 freiksenet: how often do you start emacs? 15:32:03 michalew: I currently hack .emacs quite a lot, so I have to restart it every 5 minutes or so 15:32:19 well, you don't need to restart emacs to hack .emacs 15:33:04 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:09 d'oh, iolib only does sockets? 15:33:43 stassats: really? 15:33:56 Sikander: sb-sys:fd-stream-fd, for a quick hack. 15:34:08 freiksenet: yes 15:34:19 i can change half of emacs without restarting it 15:35:13 pkhuong: whoa, thanks, I'll try that 15:35:53 benny [n=benny@i577A1728.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:35:55 stassats: is it "load-file"? 15:36:15 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@190.226.115.103] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:36:37 freiksenet: eval your changes. 15:36:49 it's C-x C-e and M-x ielm and C-M-x and M-: and load-file, and load-library and whatever 15:37:11 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:37:12 okay, thanks a lot %) 15:38:35 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@ABordeaux-257-1-34-129.w90-45.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:39:00 Krystof [n=csr21@ABordeaux-257-1-90-145.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:40:08 brnhck [n=hrk@acurwa001011.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:40:18 -!- brnhck [n=hrk@acurwa001011.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:42:40 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 15:46:49 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 15:47:05 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-246-162.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:47:19 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host212.190-137-192.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:49:37 Just curious: is there a way to "convert" a lisp file stream to a C FILE* and vice versa when using ffi? 15:50:28 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-246-162.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 15:51:25 of course, with the sb-sys:fd-stream-fd I can do an fdopen, but I was wondering if there was another way to do it 15:52:15 Sikander: that's the only way that exists in C, so I don't see how Lisp could have another via FFI 15:53:03 mathrick: Is a lisp stream actually a file descriptor? 15:53:08 Sikander: given that both, CL streams and C FILE* are buffered, I can imagine exciting failure modes 15:53:22 you could have an *implementation-specific* way to do it, but there's absolutely nothing about FFI in it 15:53:30 Sikander: unlikely 15:53:33 maybe in ECL 15:53:39 wait 15:53:50 I'm sorry for the silly questions; I'm new to ffi 15:54:00 they commonly have associated FDs if they're backed by some kind of fdstreams 15:54:02 schoppenhauer_ [n=css@p5B0BDBC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:15 but they're not "actually" file descriptors 15:54:23 that doesn't mean anything 15:54:31 I thought that sb-sys:fd-stream-fd converts a lisp stream to an fd (or rather, gets the fd from the lisp stream)... 15:54:36 an FD is defined to be a small integer, that's all it is 15:54:48 ...and then use that fd in C to get a FILE*. 15:55:27 I was thinking that maybe there is a similarity between the actual lisp stream and the FILE* so that they could be coerced somehow, without walking the fd path 15:55:37 hello. is it possible (with mop or so) to determine whether an object has a certain method implemented? 15:55:39 But I guess that's implementation dependent 15:56:11 Sikander: most lisps are implemented primarily in lisp. Using FILE* would be doing things backwards 15:56:17 objects don't have methods 15:56:32 methods specialize on classes 15:56:41 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1728.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:57:19 clhs compute-applicable-methods 15:57:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_comput.htm 15:57:55 mathrick: does that mean that each lisp implements the internals of the stream differently as well? There's no way of "portably" coercing a stream to a FILE* and back? (well, I didn't see such an option in cffi so I guess the answer is that there's no way) 15:58:42 benny [n=benny@i577A1728.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:59:21 -!- schoppenhauer_ is now known as schoppenhauer 16:01:23 Anyway, thanks for the help guys, see you later 16:01:39 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:08:58 kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:45 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@p5B0BDBC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 16:21:36 singhv [n=vsingh@CPE0014bf4af6c2-CM000a739caee2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:50 lispm [n=joswig@e177126002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:26:37 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:31:50 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-198-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:32:24 ruediger_ [n=ruediger@91-115-191-98.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:33:09 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 16:33:58 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@188-23-190-224.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:37:19 is uffi obsolete? 16:37:23 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-221-61.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:57 something [n=somethin@c-68-45-137-255.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:35 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@68.126.198.233] has joined #lisp 16:38:44 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-34-110-14.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:39:25 swank question: I have a remote repl running swank. I can connect to it from emacs. is there a way to redirect the output of the remote repl into the repl in my local emacs? 16:41:02 output from the repl thread should be redirected 16:41:12 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 16:41:27 for other threads, see swank:*globally-redirect-io* 16:44:29 stassats: how can I redirect the output from repl thread? 16:45:07 if you are using recent slime, it's already redirected 16:46:05 i see, let me update 16:46:08 thanks stassats 16:47:17 deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 16:47:32 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@68.126.198.233] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:49:42 -!- skeptomai|away is now known as skeptomai 16:51:51 -!- something [n=somethin@c-68-45-137-255.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:54:08 -!- qbg [n=chatzill@x-146-57-84-115.mrs.umn.edu] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]"] 16:59:35 -!- cp2 [n=will@69.163.33.38] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:59:49 cp2 [n=will@69.163.33.38] has joined #lisp 17:00:32 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:02:15 xvx [n=user01@189.139.217.193] has joined #lisp 17:09:04 -!- skeptomai is now known as skeptomai|away 17:10:32 dmiles [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:52 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:13:10 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@tomoyuki28jp.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:42 -!- skeptomai|away [n=nskeptom@c-67-170-103-113.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.2.0"] 17:13:42 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@tomoyuki28jp.xen.prgmr.com] has left #lisp 17:14:11 tomoyuki28jp` [n=tomoyuki@EM114-48-36-185.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:14:19 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@tomoyuki28jp.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@31-9-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:15:14 -!- Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:15:44 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@tomoyuki28jp.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:16:06 -!- tomoyuki28jp` [n=tomoyuki@EM114-48-36-185.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has left #lisp 17:16:38 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit ["Changing server"] 17:17:33 serichsen [n=svante@hmbg-4d0663a7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:38 good evening 17:17:47 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:18:02 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@tomoyuki28jp.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 17:18:46 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@tomoyuki28jp.xen.prgmr.com] has left #lisp 17:18:48 I have a report that the Allegro CL 8.1 interpreter behaves oddly when redefining a macro as a function: any existing functions that invoke that macro will, if called, invoke the new function definition instead. Is this behavior conformant with the Standard? 17:19:16 tomo` [n=user@EM114-48-36-185.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:19:34 <_3b> sounds reasonable for a function 17:19:40 -!- tomo` [n=user@EM114-48-36-185.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:19:40 <_3b> for an interpreter i mean 17:19:42 jcowan: yes, for interpreted code. 17:19:44 None of ABCL, CCL, CLISP, CMUCL, ECL, or SBCL do this. 17:20:10 tomo` [n=tomo@EM114-48-36-185.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:20:29 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@tomoyuki28jp.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:47 They all apparently expand the macro when the existing functions were defined. 17:20:47 I am about to compile a new sbcl on osx. I am running leopard 10.5.8. Can I compile sbcl as x86-64? 17:20:57 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:24 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:22:10 dialtone [n=dialtone@98.210.12.88] has joined #lisp 17:22:27 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@tomoyuki28jp.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:23:52 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@131.111.223.202] has quit ["system reboot"] 17:23:59 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-221-61.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:25:31 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@tomoyuki28jp.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:22 -!- blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:26:50 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:26:57 -!- dialtone_ [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:27:06 -!- triple [i=triple@pi.nxs.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:27:06 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:27:16 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:28:20 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:28:31 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@tomoyuki28jp.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:28:35 *leo2007* is back 17:29:20 sbcl 1.0.31 is not shown on http://sbcl.sourceforge.net/platform-table.html 17:29:36 does that mean it is unstable? 17:29:43 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:30:24 nope. 17:31:09 pkhuong: thanks. 17:31:34 Can I compile sbcl as x86-64 in leopard 10.5.8? 17:33:45 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:34:46 Sure. 17:35:01 -!- tomo` [n=tomo@EM114-48-36-185.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:36:32 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 17:38:40 ska` [n=user@ppp-58-8-238-96.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 17:44:27 Xach, you know about optipng..? .. "Input file size = 29750 bytes" --> "Output file size = 17006 bytes (12744 bytes = 42.84% decrease)" .. going to use that in a background queue+thread i think 17:47:27 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:48:17 BrianRice` [n=water@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:59 -!- v0|d [n=user@213.232.33.243] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:53:12 pkhuong: do you know how to choose x86-64? 17:53:24 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:57:03 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:57:12 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:57:12 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 18:01:15 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:03:05 leo2007: Won't it just do that automagically? 18:03:22 schme: it chooses x86 by default. 18:03:54 bummer :) 18:04:22 maybe one of the nice build configuration files? 18:05:09 uname -m returns i386 18:05:25 make you can ask make-config.sh use something else. 18:05:34 leo2007: I don't use os x, but maybe it is 32bit ;) 18:06:24 schme: the os is 32bit but the cpu is 64bit 18:06:38 I can run openmcl 64bit 18:06:42 if you are on 10.5+ you can run 64bit apps if your cpu supports it 18:06:57 well maybe make-config.sh 18:07:06 so i am thinking of compiling sbcl as x86-64 since it seems to have some advantage for numerical computing 18:07:14 Phaze [n=PhazeDK@0x5da32b16.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1104.soebnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:08:17 schme: make-config will guess the arch to be x86 always 18:08:31 hey maybe SBCL_ARCH 18:08:36 that's my guess from reading that script anyway. 18:08:48 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:16 sbcl_arch=${SBCL_ARCH:-$guessed_sbcl_arch} I read. Seems plausible. 18:09:27 I add (enable :x86-64) to customize-target-features.lisp 18:09:33 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:09:58 I'd try setting the env variable. 18:10:18 schme: thanks. 18:10:24 -!- merus [n=merus@128.211.176.50] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:10:48 I'm just guessing from reading one of those customize and it said "just look in make-config.sh, you dolt!" and then I found that there. 18:10:53 maybe it works (: 18:12:16 schme: It is compiling now. I think add it to customize-target-features.lisp should also work. 18:12:24 cools! 18:12:28 but I like your approach better. 18:12:34 Me too. 18:13:01 make-config.sh has a thing where it outputs one should set it when it can't guess. 18:13:17 dunno if it also might do something else than just :x86-64 18:16:14 -!- gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:16:20 -!- ThomasIl [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 18:17:54 ralg [n=rui@bl8-155-251.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:20:05 Hi all .. I'm trying to write my first lisp program following this (http://web.telia.com/~u43518104/articles/lispweb.htm) tutorial.. 18:20:27 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:35 But when I try to include some package, an error is returned: (SB-INT:%FIND-PACKAGE-OR-LOSE "CL-WHO") 18:21:27 you need to install and load it first 18:21:28 The packages are installed in ~/.sbcl/systems 18:21:32 try (rquire :cl-who) on sbcl 18:21:41 require 18:22:34 YES ;) It' works... 18:22:43 Thanks ... 18:23:05 ralg: welcome to the dark side 18:23:13 openbala [n=balaji@122.169.82.67] has joined #lisp 18:23:53 ralg: that's a good tutorial. at least it was for me 18:25:27 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:26:34 something [n=somethin@c-68-45-137-255.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:46 -!- openbala [n=balaji@122.169.82.67] has quit [Client Quit] 18:27:45 openbala [n=balaji@122.169.82.67] has joined #lisp 18:28:00 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:30:03 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 18:30:56 In local-target-features.lisp-expr, there is no sb-thread but there is sb-lutex, does that mean thread is eanbled? 18:32:06 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:33:21 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-246-162.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:37:36 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.204.112] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:38:09 schme: do you know how to enable threads? 18:39:01 namor [n=namor@dslb-088-072-253-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:02 leo2007: search for :sb-thread in base-target-features.lisp-expr 18:39:35 lhz: I followed INSTALL by creating a file customize-target-features.lisp 18:39:44 but it seems that does not enable thread 18:40:21 merus [n=merus@pal-176-050.itap.purdue.edu] has joined #lisp 18:40:52 [Jackal] [n=Jackal@118.94.85.144] has joined #lisp 18:40:57 leo2007: fire up sbcl and run *features*, that should say :sb-thread 18:41:38 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.63.105.97] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:41:47 lhz: It is still compiling but local-target-features does not include sb-thread 18:41:57 So I suspect it is not enabled. 18:43:49 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142068144064.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:02 leo2007: local-target-features.lisp-expr specifies your compilers features that is compiling your sbcl.. but dont take my word for this being correct :) 18:44:47 francogrex [n=user@91.178.118.165] has joined #lisp 18:45:49 <[Jackal]> clbuild fails at retrieving some of the projects due to errors like: "svn: Can't connect to host 'erleuchtet.org': Connection refused". 18:46:44 schoppenhauer_ [n=css@p5B0BFE31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:47 -!- schoppenhauer_ [n=css@p5B0BFE31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:47:06 ve_ [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:47:26 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:47:40 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:49:53 run-tests.sh failed with test failed, expected 104 return code, got 1 18:49:57 -!- ve [n=a@94-193-95-252.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:49:58 -!- ve_ is now known as ve 18:50:07 what to do with it? 18:50:33 leo2007: you might want to have a look at section 2.2 in INSTALL in the sbcl directory 18:51:08 <_3b> [Jackal]: are you sure your clbuild is current? 18:51:11 in particular, you should probably do your customizations in customize-target-features.lisp 18:52:11 <[Jackal]> _3b, pulled it last night. 18:53:19 v0|d [n=user@213.232.33.243] has joined #lisp 18:53:56 love erc's restore on reconnect feature. it does everthing i ever need. 18:54:15 <_3b> ah, i guess you are trying to get something form the wnpp-projects list. i think that site has been down for a while, not sure of any other sources for those projects :( 18:54:58 <[Jackal]> You're right. Those packages aren't from the main branch. 18:56:53 lhz and piso: sb-thread is enabled. 18:57:13 leo2007: which test(s) failed? 18:57:16 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["leaving"] 18:59:38 <[Jackal]> _3b, thanks for the information. I think clbuild ought to keep stable releases of all the projects in its own repository in case external links stop working--even for a while. 18:59:51 leo2007 pasted "run-tests" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86980 19:00:02 piso: in paste 86980 19:00:27 <_3b> [Jackal]: feel free to volunteer to set that up and manage it then :) 19:01:23 <_3b> [Jackal]: or use something like libcl, i think it tries to do that 19:02:01 leo2007: That doesn't look good. The unexepected failures are mostly in thread-related stuff. 19:02:58 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:03:05 is slime-mode and lisp-mode the same? I don't think anything changes when I do M-x lisp-mode in slime, am I correct? 19:03:37 cause it seems that slime uses lisp-mode font-locks, cause adding keywords to slime-mode doesnot seem to work %) 19:03:44 piso: I am concerned too. I heard from this channel that people rarely run into trouble with sb-thread on osx. 19:04:15 leo2007: are they workin' for ya if you don't go for long-mode ? 19:04:32 -!- ralg [n=rui@bl8-155-251.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:04:43 schme: what do you mean by long-mode, x86-64? 19:04:45 leo2007: Are the folks whose threads work running 64-bit code? 19:04:49 <[Jackal]> _3b, I'll give it a thought. Centralized repositories are more dependable, IMHO. Ah, LibCL is exactly what I thought about. Thanks! :) 19:05:02 piso: I can't remember it was a while ago 19:05:25 -!- something [n=somethin@c-68-45-137-255.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 19:05:34 <_3b> only more dependable if someone has time to make it so :) 19:05:44 <_3b> (though redundancy helps even if not i guess) 19:06:11 <[Jackal]> Indeed. 19:06:13 leo2007: yeah.. does it all work with 32bit? 19:06:16 Hi, I wrote a very simple ascii plot function. Please review and comment on it. i appreciate feedback: http://paste.lisp.org/display/86981 19:06:30 some packages seem not to support uni-thread build, for example, clnuplot 19:07:25 schme: in x86 without sb-thread, i saw only expected failtures when I built 1.0.27 19:08:22 Perhaps threads don't work on osx +64bit (: 19:08:37 leo2007: I guess the rest of your weekend is rescued! You have threading code to fix (: 19:09:14 leo2007: I think you're a bit out on the edge with x86-64 threads. I'm not sure that configuration is really supposed to work yet. 19:09:15 leo2007: but I don't have a Mac, so my information is not at all reliable :) 19:09:56 <_3b> francogrex: mixing write-* with format like that seems a bit odd 19:10:25 Threads aren't very stable on darwin. Depending on your usage patterns you may or may not experience failures outside the test harness. 19:10:48 pkhuong: are threads officially supported on darwin x86-64? 19:11:11 I want x86-64 but my program does not need threads, I only need it to run some packages. 19:11:14 piso: nope. 19:11:24 leo2007: there's your answer! 19:11:58 _3b: so I change all to format then. But does the prog seem useful somehow? extendable? 19:12:02 <_3b> francogrex: and you don't need 2 functions, just 1 that outputs to a stream that defaults to *standard-output*, and optionally a wrapper to open the file and call the plot function 19:12:25 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 19:12:39 I mean, it mostly works, but there are (known) issues. Threads on darwin are fairly unstable already. x86-64 tends to be less stable than x86. 19:13:06 _3b: noted. You're right, I'll use the *standard-output* default. 19:13:25 pkhuong: leo2007's tests didn't go very well: http://paste.lisp.org/display/86980 19:14:20 <_3b> francogrex: also, use ** around names of variables defined with defvar 19:14:22 piso: yup, known issues. 19:15:12 <_3b> francogrex: and similarly, don't use ** on names of variables that aren't declared special (either by defvar / defparameter, or explicitly) 19:16:40 -!- openbala [n=balaji@122.169.82.67] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:17:17 -!- lukjad007 is now known as lukjadOO7 19:18:18 -!- lukjadOO7 is now known as lukjad007 19:19:34 clnuplot has this: Not supported in unithread builds. 19:22:23 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 19:23:47 leo2007: so you're probably better off sticking with x86, with threads 19:25:35 piso: but x86-64 is better than x86 for numerical computing, right? 19:26:04 -!- skinnylover [n=skinnylo@195.238.188.231] has quit [Client Quit] 19:26:09 can I use sb-sprof to profile memory allocation? 19:26:27 or rather, how can I ...? 19:26:34 leo2007: only if it works :) 19:27:40 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:28:10 piso: do you know if many cl packages require threads? I have only seen one i.e. clnuplot but I am new to lisp. 19:28:22 Adlai: look at the documentation in sbcl/contrib/sb-sprof/sb-sprof.texinfo 19:28:32 piso: thanks 19:28:43 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:28:46 *leo2007* is undecided which one to discard x86-64 or sb-thread 19:28:54 leo2007: discard x86-64 19:29:07 ok 19:29:08 ok 19:29:17 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@dyn57-11.yok.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:29:38 Taggnostr [n=x@dyn57-11.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 19:29:40 *Adlai* changed a routine to use a nonconsing function, and the memory allocation went up by about 500 bytes... 19:30:07 *Adlai* wrote this nonconsing algorithm himself though, so it's probably the culprit 19:30:33 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:30:53 piso: I just started a recompile. I hope run-tests.sh pass this time. 19:30:55 Allocation is measured with a ~4K granularity on SBCL. 19:31:11 pkhuong: oh, is that true of the profiler too? 19:31:39 leo2007: I was wrong. Looking at src/cold/shared.lisp:131 it seems base-target-features.lisp-expr is what features you can configure before running "sh make.sh" and local-target-features.lisp-expr is stuff detected about your target architecture and OS during build process. 19:31:40 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:46 (that allocation measurement was from CCL's time macro, which usually gives very accurate allocation info, but is no profiler 19:31:47 ) 19:32:45 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:33 lhz: although sb-thread wasn't written to local-target-features, it appeared in *features* 19:33:38 nvoorhies [i=NV@69-229-191-94.bn02095.irvnca.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:41 dysinger [n=dysinger@adsl-99-40-53-122.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:11 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:35:14 DakeDesu [n=root@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:16 leo2007: clozure's thread support on darwin is pretty solid. 19:36:24 %PRIMITIVE HALT called; the party is over. 19:36:24 Welcome to LDB, a low-level debugger for the Lisp runtime environment. 19:36:28 Hm. 19:36:36 What can I do with it?? 19:36:45 Fade: yes, it seems it is the best option for osx. 19:37:30 leo2007: yes, both are used for final *features* in target (my guess). 19:37:37 ASau: hit 'q' or ^D if you don't know your way around SBCL internals 19:37:40 TDT [n=dthole@12.39.19.35] has joined #lisp 19:37:45 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:37:58 although you might be able to get some kind of core dump 19:38:01 try 'h' for help 19:38:18 i use clozure for client stuff on my mac and sbcl + slime/swank for developing server side stuff right on the deployment platform. 19:38:40 assuming the deployment platform isn't a mac, which is basically never is. 19:39:22 BrianRice [n=water@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:34 is uffi obsolete? <-- more or less yes 19:41:10 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=root@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:42:09 mathrick: thanks. do you use cl for numerical programming? 19:42:29 i'm guessing from your nick. 19:43:52 heh, not at all 19:44:09 I try to avoid numerical computation if possible, which it is almost always 19:46:02 i see 19:46:23 i am trying to find a good plotting package 19:46:33 any suggestions? 19:47:37 gnuplot seems sort of ubiquitous. 19:47:53 p0a [n=user@athedsl-375638.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:48:02 someone on planet lisp was doing plotting a bit ago, but I can't recall now 19:48:09 Hello I'm reading PCL I don't understand this code, (comments mine): http://paste.lisp.org/display/86984 19:48:28 ok, i'll look it up. 19:48:32 I don't understand what the INCF form does - what is the logic of increasing the balance of the account in a withdrawal? 19:49:08 Unless I don't understand banking terms and 'balance' does not mean 'how much $$$ is in the account" 19:49:33 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:49:57 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-99-173-27-112.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:27 when the amount withdrawn is greater than the balance, it increases the balance of the account by the amount in overdraft. 19:50:44 chris_bryant [n=chris_br@cpe-76-170-255-101.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:24 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:52:35 if the value in the overdraft is a negative sum, the amount in the account is sufficient to proceed w/out overdraft. 19:52:37 zoldar [n=zoldar@kyh66.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:53:00 Then calls the next method for itself 19:53:04 which is to withdraw the money 19:53:17 *nod* 19:53:17 yes I understand now, thanks 19:53:46 when you're having problems with control flow like that, it helps to describe the flow in english or your native language. 19:53:56 p0a: incf is like += 19:54:00 *scratch* is your friend. 19:54:11 well, it's kind of a combination of ++ and += 19:54:31 Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 19:54:32 sykopomp: prefix ++ 19:54:51 p0a: sure. 19:55:03 except it works like += if you give it a second arg. 19:55:13 But my confusion wasn't this ;-), I understood INCF, I didn't understand the logic behind it, ie not how, but why 19:55:16 ditto for decf 19:55:21 oh ok. 19:55:21 right, the delta 19:55:52 OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-0-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:56:20 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-100-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:57:04 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:08 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c142-5.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:58:37 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 19:58:42 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu_married 20:00:28 anyone knows of a site for programming contests (+ maybe archives of old problems)? 20:02:02 francogrex: in any language? 20:02:20 yes any language 20:02:34 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-100-204.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:02:36 should not be restricted to one language 20:03:33 project euler has a list of programming 'problems' with rated solutions. 20:03:49 it's actually a good way to lose hours and hours from an otherwise productive day. :) 20:04:22 Fade: seems you've become an addict 20:04:28 -!- DakeDesu is now known as KatrinaTheLamia 20:04:44 http://projecteuler.net/ 20:05:05 sort of. :) 20:05:06 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-164-80.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:05:21 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:05:27 -!- ehu_married is now known as ehu_just_married 20:05:34 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@KD124213182069.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:05:58 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@adsl-99-40-53-122.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:06:10 I remember such a website but I can't recall its name 20:06:50 Fade: number theory! 20:07:10 it's a fun site. 20:07:52 -!- angerman [n=angerman@host41.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [] 20:09:50 ./run-tests.sh has stuck in ::: Running (PROFILE THREADS) 20:09:53 Fade: what can you tell about this: http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=statistics 20:10:15 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:10:52 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:10:53 obviously you must login to see the correct page i referred to 20:12:12 anyone here worked with cffi and sysctl.h and got it working? 20:12:38 as cffi-grovel gives a syntaxerror on the .h (but obviously it should work, you can't admit that my FreeBSD ain't running atm) 20:12:43 seems sort of self explanatory. 20:13:40 -!- namor [n=namor@dslb-088-072-253-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:15:31 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:59 I'm solving problems but never got aksed what language did I use, so how coulkd they guess? 20:16:11 francogrex: you can fill that in 20:16:12 on your profile 20:16:16 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:20:13 leo2007 annotated #86980 "x86 with sb-thread" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86980#1 20:20:37 piso: I am getting the same tests failures 20:22:12 PissedNumlock pasted "grovel failure" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86986 20:22:23 anyone knows how to solve that one? 20:23:08 funny part is that the line above is +- the same but doesnt trigger a failure 20:23:09 none of the lisp people made it to the list of the Members at Level 6 (Legend) 20:23:18 dialtone [n=dialtone@98.210.12.88] has joined #lisp 20:23:33 well I solve most of the euler in ruby 20:23:49 only thing I've used lisp for was when I had to convert numbers to string (so 5 -> "five" ) 20:25:52 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-100-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:28:36 -!- ehu_just_married [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:29:56 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142068144064.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:29:57 when was ccl 1.3 released? 20:30:49 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-84-207.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:25 konr [n=konrad@201.82.141.180] has joined #lisp 20:31:29 Hazelesque [n=hazel@yamada.9noc.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:10 I would make more sense if you were asked what language/tool you used for each problem 20:32:13 It* 20:32:59 wchogg [n=wchogg@71-34-77-216.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:00 kingless [n=King@adsl-144-140-128.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:21 p0a: yes it would, but if people posted their answers, we can see it 20:38:21 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:39:08 so, anyone has a clue about: http://paste.lisp.org/display/86986 20:39:23 it's when I try to include that file with cffi-grovel 20:39:28 leo2007: in july, I think 20:41:25 is it considered bad style to return nil from a function rather than (values nil nil)? 20:42:03 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:42:07 depends, if that function can only return nil when it 'fails' 20:42:23 -!- nvoorhies [i=NV@69-229-191-94.bn02095.irvnca.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:42:23 then I do it like that 20:42:29 Adlai: well, the only thing it makes a differencr to is multiple-value-list and multiple-value-call 20:42:30 PissedNumlock: hmm? the function doesn't fail, it's just returning nil for each value 20:42:42 well you know what I mean Adlai 20:42:51 Adlai: in particular, to sensibly use m-v-call in general the number of values matters 20:43:04 but I think the answer is 'correctly document what you do' 20:43:05 PissedNumlock: maybe I do, but this isn't a predicate so that doesn't make sense 20:43:13 kpreid: ok, thanks. 20:43:39 *Adlai* returns (values nil nil) 20:43:40 Which means that in general a function that returns a variable number of values depending on its semantics isn't that great an idea. 20:43:42 normally your function returns a value or nil 20:43:50 and nil is for a special clause 20:44:06 now when your normal clause value can also be nil you should distinguish them by using values 20:44:11 otherwise you don't 20:44:17 (imo) 20:45:57 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 105 (No buffer space available)] 20:46:18 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:46:44 HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:27 -!- kingless [n=King@adsl-144-140-128.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client"] 20:49:27 is it possible to somehow remove all keywords from font-lock-keywords? 20:50:09 in emacs, of course : ) 20:53:09 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:54:31 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@212-198-78-230.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:55:09 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-100-204.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:55:30 Fade: thanks 20:55:45 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.204.112] has joined #lisp 20:58:03 -!- francogrex [n=user@91.178.118.165] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:59:31 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-17-100.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:59:41 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:00:37 n'p 21:01:03 ccl is very good ;) 21:01:13 aye 21:01:25 it has saved me a lot of woe on my ppc mac. 21:02:35 Fade: do you know how to get ti start swank? 21:02:38 it* 21:03:02 weirdo2 [i=weirdo@rodney.ltd.pl] has joined #lisp 21:03:03 hey 21:03:22 slime-fontify-string disables autodoc-mode for some reason 21:03:28 for local use? 21:03:34 when i'm inside a repl buffer 21:03:37 just set it up as the inferior lisp in your slime setup. 21:04:30 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:04:34 there's fairly thorough documentation on the clozure site, iirc. 21:04:48 greetings, nikodemus 21:05:01 -!- mishoo_ [n=mishoo@79.112.52.247] has quit ["be back later"] 21:05:01 Fade: i have set that up for inferior lisp but not swank 21:05:28 Fade: is asdf-install included by default? 21:06:13 dialtone [n=dialtone@c-98-210-12-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:37 ignas [n=ignas@78.63.105.97] has joined #lisp 21:06:58 -!- TDT [n=dthole@12.39.19.35] has quit [] 21:07:16 mikezor [n=mikael@c-4ae470d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:07:16 Fade: do you where local modules are installed? 21:07:32 good night 21:07:35 -!- serichsen [n=svante@hmbg-4d0663a7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:07:45 hey, colored autodoc works for anyone on latest slime? 21:07:56 -!- mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-4ae470d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:08:09 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-179-146.bflony.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:08:25 weirdo2: You mean the small thing telling you (FOO args...)? Sometimes I have to type M-x lisp-mode before I get it (even though I was previously in lisp-mode) 21:08:26 Lycurgus [n=Ren@pool-71-186-179-146.bflony.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:06 if you want swank by itself, then you need to push the location of your slime directory into the central registry list. 21:09:19 marioxcc [n=user@200.92.186.212] has joined #lisp 21:09:35 p0a: i disabled some code and now it works, except that it isn't colored 21:10:38 asdf:*central-registry* 21:10:51 but i don't have a slightest clue as to what happened 21:11:25 Fade: i see 21:11:26 because no one touched that code in ages 21:11:39 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-68-55-111-252.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:19 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-100-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:12:24 weirdo2: perhaps you're inside a big comment region and you don't know it? 21:12:40 Because if the cursor pointer is between #| and |#, then you don't get that 21:12:55 I have a shell script that uses clbuild to install basic systems and configures clbuild to load ccl 21:13:39 p0a: hmm i even started emacs -Q to make sure 21:13:44 and i don't have local changes 21:13:54 i'll try git version instead of cvs 21:15:30 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-375638.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 21:15:30 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-12-126.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:18:57 leo2007: if you want to look at my setup, i have a tarball of the utility I use. 21:20:04 Fade: Yeah. I am trying to start swank first. 21:20:19 asdf:*central-registry* has (#P"/Users/gtd/.ccl/systems" *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS*) 21:20:38 And I have swank.asd linked in that dir but still can't start it 21:20:47 timor [n=martin@p57ACDAF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:46 dysinger [n=dysinger@dsl081-064-072.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:00 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-100-204.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:23:01 paste the error 21:23:37 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:24:18 the shell script that starts ccl in the ccl dist directory sets up some environment variables. 21:24:22 common lisp does have logical shift? 21:24:27 Fade: Error: Module SWANK was not provided by any function on *MODULE-PROVIDER-FUNCTIONS*. 21:24:36 or only arithmetical? 21:25:03 Fade: I can start ccl/64 without any problem. but when I add (require 'swank) to ccl-init.lisp it failed 21:25:17 so where's the eclm2009 after-dinner party? 21:25:30 http://www.deepsky.com/~fade/lol-er.tar.gz 21:26:28 -!- timor [n=martin@p57ACDAF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 21:27:18 marioxcc: mask the bits you're interested in for logical shift. Integers are of unbounded size in CL. 21:27:18 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-100-204.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:27:58 did you look at http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter2.6.html 21:27:59 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit ["off"] 21:27:59 ? 21:28:05 ok, thanks 21:29:12 http://trac.clozure.com/openmcl/wiki/InstallingSlime 21:29:38 anyone has a clue about: http://paste.lisp.org/display/86986 21:30:20 -!- OmniMancer [n=OmniManc@122-57-0-87.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:32:07 Fade: for sure. that's for inferior-lisp, I think. 21:33:07 anyhow, the tarball I linked to will set up a clbuild instance and should set things up so that ccl can load slime in emacs with './clbuild slime' 21:33:33 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-100-204.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:34:32 _mfm_ [n=mfm@c-98-239-78-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:11 PissedNumlock: try and compile with -W -Wall and paste all the output. 21:35:15 JayK` [n=user@dslb-088-074-199-204.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:52 pkhuong: it's when I try to include that file with cffi-grovel 21:36:02 sysctl.h 21:36:31 so don't know if I can control the compile options 21:37:00 PissedNumlock: cffi-grovel:*cc-flags* or something 21:37:18 -!- freiksenet [n=freiksen@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:37:36 oh, you replied to the mailinglist :) 21:38:54 luis: is that in the grovelfile? 21:39:13 aha nvm 21:39:17 its a private variable 21:39:46 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has left #lisp 21:40:17 whats the format of that variable as it is nil here 21:40:26 '(-W -Wall) or "-W -Wall" 21:41:21 '("-W" "-Wall") apparently 21:42:32 -!- JayK` [n=user@dslb-088-074-199-204.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 21:42:50 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit ["Backups are usually a good thing unless it's a sewer."] 21:43:28 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 21:43:46 PissedNumlock annotated #86986 "output" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86986#1 21:45:45 I'm not even trying to grovel the file, I just have (include "sys/sysctl.h") in a file and proces it with cff-grovel:process-grovel-file "grovel.lisp" 21:46:13 -!- Phaze [n=PhazeDK@0x5da32b16.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1104.soebnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:46:47 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-100-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:47:59 luis pkhuong any clue? 21:48:04 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-100-204.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:48:34 -!- weirdo2 [i=weirdo@rodney.ltd.pl] has quit ["leaving"] 21:48:53 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:50:14 PissedNumlock: so what happens when you create a C file with "#include " and you compile it? 21:52:12 mhhh 21:52:22 get the same errors 21:52:25 :< 21:52:58 the question is: how does FreeBSD resolved this 21:53:00 did* 21:53:14 time to poke em 21:55:24 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 21:56:03 that's what you get when you try to port your lib to BSD :< 21:56:13 and they arent very newbie friendly in that channel either 21:56:23 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:56:57 anyway, thx luis 21:59:12 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:16 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:02:27 phax [n=phax@207-229-157-200.mart-bsr1.chi-mart.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:38 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 22:05:22 dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:15 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:10:47 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 22:10:48 luis: apparently including sys/types.h as well fixed it 22:11:53 cool 22:12:39 and I should have read the sysctl manpage 22:13:57 and even works in Lisp as well now \o/ 22:14:43 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:15:15 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@dsl081-064-072.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has left #lisp 22:17:50 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:26:35 weirdo [n=sthalik@c142-5.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:26:47 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-21.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:15 what type should I take for signed char in CFFI ? 22:31:55 PissedNumlock: :char I suppose 22:33:32 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 22:34:01 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177126002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 22:34:49 antgreen [n=user@bas2-toronto06-1177888317.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:35:06 no :schar? 22:35:33 http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/cffi-manual.html#Built_002dIn-Types 22:35:39 (after all, the three are distinct types) 22:35:48 (that is, signed char, char, unsigned char) 22:36:26 are they one octet in size? 22:36:38 younder: not necessary, but one byte - yes 22:39:28 RauulSeixas [n=user5442@187.34.40.146] has joined #lisp 22:39:59 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:43:18 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@213.114.170.185] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:45:11 -!- dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:45:52 -!- nha [n=prefect@17-70.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Since idle lawyers tend to become politicians, there is a certain social value in keeping them busy."] 22:47:25 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:51:17 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:52:57 -!- tagac [n=user@208.37.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #lisp 22:53:20 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229242110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 22:53:48 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 22:54:42 pdenno [n=pdenno@208-58-10-214.c3-0.gth-ubr2.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:09 adeht: right, CFFI's :char is "signed char" 23:04:33 -!- RauulSeixas [n=user5442@187.34.40.146] has quit ["EJT"] 23:04:48 *attila_lendvai* ported his slime branch to slime head... 23:08:49 WhiteFlame [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:10 Ppjet6 [n=ppjet@82.123.221.147] has joined #lisp 23:10:11 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:11:39 -!- Ppjet6 is now known as Pepe_ 23:13:45 leo2007 [n=leo@131.111.223.202] has joined #lisp 23:17:08 -!- slava [n=slava@li13-154.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 23:17:56 -!- pdenno [n=pdenno@208-58-10-214.c3-0.gth-ubr2.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:20:09 -!- zoldar [n=zoldar@kyh66.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:20:46 HET3 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:09 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.213.146] has joined #lisp 23:24:35 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 23:26:03 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:15 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 23:27:45 -!- HET2 [n=diman@cpc1-cdif3-0-0-cust705.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:28:00 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 23:31:37 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-33.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:34:25 -!- spilman [n=spilman@92.135.203.251] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:38:12 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:19 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:39:12 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:09 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [] 23:42:46 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:46 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:46:23 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:04 -!- ska` [n=user@ppp-58-8-238-96.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:57:16 hi 23:57:27 hi! 23:58:28 how must i pass '(" string") to "string" 23:58:29 ? 23:59:06 what are you trying to do?... 23:59:53 trying to strip off 23:59:56 wwaaahhahh 23:59:56 (iter 23:59:57 (for item in items) 23:59:57 (li (a :href (second item) (first item)) ))))