00:00:40 -!- dalton [n=user5442@189-19-127-132.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit ["EJECT"] 00:00:52 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Client Quit] 00:01:12 dalton [n=user5442@189-19-127-132.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:04:58 -!- bytecolor [n=user@32.157.230.101] has left #lisp 00:08:04 r0bby_ [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 00:08:06 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:35 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCDCFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:18 DakeDesu [n=root@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:30 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:18:18 -!- DakeDesu [n=root@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:18:40 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:20:09 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1C655.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:22:24 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [n=root@S0106001cdfcd44c1.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:25:19 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:29:07 -!- iwaki [n=hide@PPPa272.osaka.acca.dti.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:29:20 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-219-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:29:27 -!- alexsuraci [n=alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:28 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 00:32:17 tau [n=gauss@189.127.61.14] has joined #lisp 00:32:20 dalton, 00:32:23 hey you 00:32:50 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:34:46 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:50 tau fala exu 00:34:54 exu baleia 00:35:20 dalton, ow gutineja 00:35:42 translete 00:35:46 dalton, quem é o cara em lisp aqui ? 00:35:58 dalkvist, gutineja eh o cara da novela rapah. 00:36:04 to ouvindo eles falarem aqui. 00:36:05 caralho 00:36:08 vc assiste mesmo! 00:36:10 are baba@ 00:36:10 dalton, o tal do copal 00:36:12 tike 00:36:15 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 00:36:15 are baba 00:36:16 tike nervoso 00:36:23 to ouvindo daqui do quarto. 00:36:27 achei engraçado. 00:36:36 dalton, voce lembra gutineja. 00:38:09 vc é o rajdi 00:38:14 seja la qm ele for 00:38:15 lol 00:38:38 lol 00:38:48 tau vc tem mó cara de qm comercializava tecidos num incarnaçao anterior 00:39:26 dalton, vc tem cara de cafetão mexicano. 00:39:37 pdenno [n=pdenno@208-58-10-214.c3-0.gth-ubr2.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:05 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 00:41:10 Feel free to talk privately. 00:41:37 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@66.11.161.166] has quit ["brb"] 00:41:45 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:01 tau vc foi meu heroi meu bandido 00:44:43 agora vc nao passa de um veterano q ja nao encontra lugar na net onde um dia reinou 00:44:44 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 00:45:45 dalton, tudo que um homem tem é seu desejo de ter um bom passado. 00:46:52 tau voltar ao passado sem alcool eh uma viagem perigosa 00:47:06 dalton, tau: please take it elsewhere 00:48:38 Xach sorry 00:50:53 -!- pve_ [n=user@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff2dc000-174.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:05:54 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 01:09:28 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has left #lisp 01:09:46 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 01:13:20 rvirding [n=chatzill@h6n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 01:20:11 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:48 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:24:11 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 01:28:34 -!- Symmetry- [n=thezog@host-static-92-114-165-252.moldtelecom.md] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:29:49 iwaki [n=hide@PPPa272.osaka.acca.dti.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:30:39 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@dslb-094-222-057-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:32:02 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:37:27 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 01:40:08 -!- iwaki [n=hide@PPPa272.osaka.acca.dti.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:42:24 -!- krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-101-194.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:43:44 Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:47:52 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:49:48 -!- nha [n=prefect@17-70.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:51:29 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:53:26 quidnunc [n=user@70.50.10.146] has joined #lisp 01:53:39 Is it possible to have macros that don't recursively expand? 01:55:21 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:02:03 quidnunc: what would happen instead? 02:04:24 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:06:25 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCDCFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 02:06:56 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:06 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:07 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:12:30 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-47-39.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 02:14:07 Xach: If you had a macro "foo" that contained references to "foo" then "foo" would be inserted without expansion. 02:14:24 quidnunc: and then what would happen? 02:14:25 Xach: I think symbol-macro is sufficient for what I need. 02:14:42 -!- pdenno [n=pdenno@208-58-10-214.c3-0.gth-ubr2.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:15:19 Xach: foo would be interpreted according to the enclosing environment 02:15:43 <_3b> the enclosing environment in which foo is a macro? 02:15:47 yes 02:15:57 <_3b> so it would get expanded? 02:16:15 -!- metawilm [n=willem@g225101207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 02:16:42 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 02:17:01 -!- dalton is now known as lima_duarte 02:17:39 _3b: Only the first reference (the macro) but not the body of the macro (i.e. not recursively) 02:17:56 <_3b> so it would fail to compile then? 02:18:04 (foo (blah)) -> (foo something (blah)) is basically what I want to do 02:18:08 *_3b* is confused... either it is a macro, or it isn't 02:18:29 I'm not sure what I want can be achieve with a macro. I'm asking 02:18:35 <_3b> right, FOO is a macro though, so if it expands to FOO, it is still a macro... the only way to process that is to macroexpand it 02:19:41 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:19:43 Sorry, I'm not well versed with macros. Won't foo get recursively expanded if it is referenced in the body? 02:20:06 <_3b> if (FOO ...) expands to (FOO ...) it will expand recursively 02:20:19 _3b: Right. I want to avoid that somehow. 02:20:22 <_3b> there is no other choice, since FOO can't be both a macro and a function 02:20:35 Ah, I see. 02:20:41 quidnunc: wants what is to MACROLET as FLET is to LABELS 02:20:53 hrk [n=hrk@220.106.13.183] has joined #lisp 02:21:08 you can probably do it by having two levels of macrolet, the outer one providing a renaming 02:21:15 <_3b> you could expand to (flet ((foo ...)) (foo ...)) or something 02:21:40 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 02:24:33 <_3b> you might also see if your lisp has something like defadvice, and if that will do what you want 02:25:53 <_3b> or advise, or whatever it is 02:26:22 _3b: No I don't believe defadvice will work in my case. 02:26:29 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:34 kpreid, _3b: Thanks for the suggestions 02:26:53 I will give them a try 02:27:18 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-105-177.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:30:14 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 02:30:42 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:31:12 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:32:12 can macrolet's be macroexpanded? 02:34:23 Why not? 02:35:15 (macrolet ((m (x) `(list ',x))) (macroexpand '(m (+ 1 2)))) --> (M (+ 1 2)) ; NIL 02:35:50 Because we don't have access (portably) to the environment. 02:36:54 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:36:56 sure you can 02:37:02 one moment... 02:37:13 hmm, I guess I need to use some evaluating shortcuts and pass it some args 02:38:00 but just calling slime-macroexpand-1 doesn't work 02:38:39 (macrolet ((m (x) `(list ',x)) (e (f &environment env) (macroexpand f env))) (e '(m (+ 1 2)))) ; doesn't work either. 02:38:40 dys` [n=andreas@95.114.214.254] has joined #lisp 02:39:26 (defmacro localmacroexpand (name &environment env) `',(macroexpand name env)) 02:39:29 (macrolet ((m (x) `(list ',x)) (e (f &environment env) `',(macroexpand f env))) (e (m (+ 1 2)))) ; this works. 02:39:33 (macrolet ((foo () "hello world")) (localmacroexpand (foo))) 02:39:33 => "hello world" 02:39:47 Right. 02:40:18 fancier would be something that arranges to return the expansion even if there isn't a convenient return value path 02:40:44 -!- lima_duarte is now known as Ajudem_o_NE 02:40:50 where the usage would be (localmacroexpand (foo marker) (thing-which-defines-foo ... marker ...)) 02:41:53 We just have to remember that localmacroexpand is a macro instead of a function so you mustn't quote the form. 02:42:13 -!- Ajudem_o_NE is now known as Mr_Bizon 02:42:16 logBot7037 [n=logBot@59.96.202.193] has joined #lisp 02:42:18 is this what you guys normally use when debugging macrolets? 02:42:38 can't say I've ever had to 02:43:04 ? How is that so? Just too good of a programmer? 02:46:59 If a macro needs debugging, then it needs to call functions. (macrolet ((m (...) (generate-m ...)) ...) 02:49:24 -!- Mr_Bizon is now known as Barry_Gibb 02:49:24 DeusExPikachu: or maybe he just doesn't use complex macrolets? :P 02:49:41 Ralith, I think that's the idea... 02:50:29 DeusExPikachu: another thing you can do is redefine the macro itself to print out what it's expanding to 02:50:43 that way you get to see it "in the wold" too 02:51:44 er, wild 02:53:13 -!- dys [n=andreas@95.115.76.241] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:53:55 -!- jkantz_ [n=jkantz@c-66-31-31-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:56:48 raptelan [n=Casey@68.49.132.34] has joined #lisp 02:57:04 rabidsnail [i=6272d6ef@gateway/web/freenode/x-mthgsxqxckdvoyel] has joined #lisp 03:01:59 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:04:23 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:20 -!- quidnunc [n=user@70.50.10.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:05:29 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 03:07:17 -!- logBot7037 [n=logBot@59.96.202.193] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:07:59 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:08:19 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:09:14 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:06 -!- Barry_Gibb is now known as bach 03:10:23 -!- bach is now known as bachman 03:10:24 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 03:14:12 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h6n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:15:37 alexsuraci [n=alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:38 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:26:01 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B4893.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:09 -!- bachman is now known as novelacarrosel 03:27:31 -!- novelacarrosel is now known as novelacarrossel 03:28:51 gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:08 Moe111 [n=Moe111@204-225-123-132.xdsl.convoke.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:22 is there the equivalent of Critical Sections in sbcl threading? 03:32:44 i.e. a mutex that doesn't dive to kernel unless there needs to be a wait. 03:33:26 (question can also apply to more generic libraries, doesn't need to be sbcl) 03:34:38 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.114.138.72] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:40:44 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-204-143.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:47 Word. 03:44:21 drybowser6 [n=drybowse@adsl-70-226-232-239.dsl.spfdil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:55 -!- drybowser6 [n=drybowse@adsl-70-226-232-239.dsl.spfdil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:51:13 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 03:51:41 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest32247 03:51:48 fusss [n=chatzill@115.128.22.254] has joined #lisp 03:51:52 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.113.39.84] has joined #lisp 03:52:24 greetings from Bondi beach! margarita, sun, sand, surf, and of course, SLIME! :-P 03:54:05 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:55:35 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:56:10 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:32 lucky fuss 03:56:39 Montreal has all but snow missing 03:56:40 sigh 03:56:57 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.113.39.84] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:57:13 hey Moe111 :-) my middle name is also moe :-) 03:57:47 -!- novelacarrossel is now known as mike_love 03:57:48 Hah. Mine is a nick name =) 03:58:03 i am supposed to be migrating a project to postmodern from clsql, but i might have gotten a little too *fun* for that :-P 03:59:55 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 04:00:28 it would be nice to have an ASDF command that prints out the dependency precedence list of a project. 04:00:59 asdf:compute-dependency-precedence-list, a la CLOS's class precedence list 04:01:40 there is something that loads after CHUNGA in my project that stalls clozure on Win32 and sbcl on linux, but not Win32 LW or SBCL and Linux clozure .. gotta be a bug, right? 04:01:50 sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 04:02:25 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 04:02:40 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:09:10 -!- dabd [n=dabd@85.139.100.80] has quit [Client Quit] 04:09:18 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B4893.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:09:26 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1E26.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:11:23 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-204-143.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:14:21 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.97.74] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:19:52 -!- hrk [n=hrk@220.106.13.183] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:20:57 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.221.204] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:21:28 so is anyone else having trouble building sbcl under 10.6? 04:23:06 -!- rabidsnail [i=6272d6ef@gateway/web/freenode/x-mthgsxqxckdvoyel] has quit ["Page closed"] 04:27:38 heh. I've stopped bothering building sbcl under osx altogether =\ 04:27:41 maybe I'm lazy 04:27:50 I just use a parallels debian box now. 04:30:38 g'day 04:31:17 hello schme 04:31:22 and good morning everyone 04:31:49 Hello beach ! 04:32:10 *schme* is sadly back in sweden 04:32:33 hey beach 04:33:27 schme: Bah, you should have been back for the party we had at my niece's place! 04:37:14 -!- BrianRice [n=water@71.59.210.115] has quit [] 04:37:34 BrianRice [n=water@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:31 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-130.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 04:40:49 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:42:48 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 04:42:55 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:44:55 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:45:22 :) 04:45:27 good party, eh? 04:45:35 I'm back now! new party, please! 04:47:55 the swedes make for great travel buddies, ime 04:48:30 not as fussy as americans, not as cheap as mediteraneans, and far more outgoing and wild than latin americans 04:49:44 We do have a reputation of being quite the opposite of wild and outgoing though :) 04:50:08 are you nutts? swedish you are up for ANYTHING 04:50:43 (concatenate 'string "you" "th") 04:51:18 (: 04:53:03 -!- tau is now known as Dirac 04:53:12 -!- Dirac [n=gauss@189.127.61.14] has left #lisp 04:53:29 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.114.138.181] has joined #lisp 04:53:38 -!- mike_love is now known as Birinights 04:55:21 -!- Birinights is now known as Von_Neumann 05:03:01 -!- |Trickster| [i=Trickste@77.232.135.67] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:03:54 -!- Moe111 [n=Moe111@204-225-123-132.xdsl.convoke.net] has quit [] 05:15:35 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:18:33 -!- gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:22:02 hrm... well, i got sbcl to build itself fine, modulo some sb-posix errors, but now slime won't load :( 05:23:47 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:25:40 slyrus_: what OS? 05:25:48 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 05:26:04 *araujo* guesses Snow Leopard 05:26:05 fusss: macos 10.6 05:26:08 yeah 05:26:20 oh man 05:26:41 people are struggling to run apache/php sort of common stuff, much less a lisp 05:26:52 slyrus pasted "snow leopard slime problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86251 05:29:27 well, perhaps i can dig into it more tomorrow. night folks. 05:38:43 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:43:40 JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:38 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.118.9] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:51:10 slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-142-143.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 05:55:15 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:58:10 zenbalrog [n=johnnyc@adsl-75-5-181-47.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:44 benny [n=benny@i577A1E26.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:06:20 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-142-143.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:08:23 -!- furia [n=nieve@cpe-74-68-142-205.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:08:53 -!- Von_Neumann is now known as ausente 06:12:30 mongooseWA_ [n=mongoose@c-24-18-228-156.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:44 logBot0963 [n=logBot@59.92.202.206] has joined #lisp 06:17:18 -!- mongooseWA_ is now known as mongooseWA 06:17:49 xan [n=xan@62.78.225.40] has joined #lisp 06:18:51 -!- mongooseWA [n=mongoose@c-24-18-228-156.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:20:13 yaroslav_h [n=yaroslav@79-126-49-120.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 06:21:26 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:22:57 -!- xan [n=xan@62.78.225.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:23:08 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:23:27 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 06:30:10 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 06:38:20 fasdkljfklsdj [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-18.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:38:30 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@adsl-75-34-100-218.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:38:42 benny` [n=benny@i577A1C7B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:38:51 -!- Elench [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-18.zen.co.uk] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:38:56 -!- fasdkljfklsdj is now known as Elench 06:39:40 mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:39:54 hello 06:40:50 splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:40:52 morning 06:43:58 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@115.128.22.254] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]"] 06:47:40 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1E26.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:47:50 -!- benny` is now known as benny 06:49:47 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 06:53:20 hello splittist, hello mrSpec 06:54:51 gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:25 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:00:45 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p14220-ipngn1701marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:00:50 -!- kenjin_che [n=kenjin@163.152.180.197] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:01:54 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-207.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:03:37 -!- seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:06:06 -!- deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:06:44 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:09:38 pve_ [n=user@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff2dc000-174.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:12:31 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 07:15:51 -!- yaroslav_h [n=yaroslav@79-126-49-120.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:16:02 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-134-5-244.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:21:10 yaroslav_h [n=yaroslav@79-126-49-120.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 07:23:03 tczy [n=tczy@78-60-36-72.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 07:24:29 tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:25:10 stassats: Could you add a test case for the contextual completion (character, keyword)? 07:25:34 -!- tczy [n=tczy@78-60-36-72.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 07:28:56 [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.95.40.44] has joined #lisp 07:30:57 why do you i get that warning on *objects* in this simple one liner? --> http://pastebin.ca/1548015 07:32:27 errr ... sans 'you' 07:33:01 <_3b> SETf on undefined variables is undefined 07:33:39 lisppaste: url for holycow 07:33:58 <_3b> (let ((*objects*)) (setf *objects* ...)) or (defvar *objects) (setf *objects* ...) or (defparameter *objects* ...) etc 07:34:17 yaroslav_h_ [n=yaroslav@93-120-152-241.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 07:34:19 lisppaste: url? 07:34:19 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 07:34:27 danke 07:34:35 <_3b> (picky lisps might object to using ** on a lexical variable though) 07:38:59 Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@ppp121-44-218-172.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:36 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:42:05 -!- [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.95.40.44] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:43:46 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.143.17] has joined #lisp 07:46:44 vyazovoi [n=vyazovoi@horrible-unlim.vpn.mgn.ru] has joined #lisp 07:51:13 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:51:43 -!- yaroslav_h [n=yaroslav@79-126-49-120.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:52:25 yaroslav_h [n=yaroslav@93-120-152-66.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 07:54:10 -!- logBot0963 [n=logBot@59.92.202.206] has quit [Success] 07:54:49 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:56:50 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 07:57:21 holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 07:59:16 -!- yaroslav_h_ [n=yaroslav@93-120-152-241.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:00:37 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.75.65] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:06:14 they won't reject the program because of it, though 08:06:37 in sbcl it's just a STYLE-WARNING 08:08:10 -!- Guest32247 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 08:08:25 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-108-143.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 08:10:03 datou [n=datou@124.205.137.170] has joined #lisp 08:21:23 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229166027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:25:21 woohoo 08:25:21 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-22-81.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:25:34 *Krystof* has movement on his sparklines' y-axis 08:26:55 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-30-66.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:35:22 congratulations, Krystof (: 08:35:39 I got my own blog working again, so might be putting stuff on planet.lisp soonish, too 08:38:43 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:42:58 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 08:43:19 xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:47:26 nha [n=prefect@17-70.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:48:21 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-207.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:50:18 boscop [n=boscop@g225237138.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:50:18 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:48 ejs [n=eugen@222-25-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:33 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 09:00:34 girzel [n=user@123.121.239.47] has joined #lisp 09:03:13 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:04:44 Google groups search has become totally useless. It doesn't find anything anymore 09:10:07 -!- yaroslav_h [n=yaroslav@93-120-152-66.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:13:18 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:14:43 holycow [n=new@64.151.208.1] has joined #lisp 09:16:48 it has reached parity with regular google search, then. 09:17:12 the regular google is still fairly useful 09:17:40 antifuchs: nice, hopefully I'll get back my domain come september 09:17:47 then I could restore my blog too 09:19:27 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E43EDC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:47 -!- m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:20:07 hefner: Did the regular search really degrade much? 09:20:16 m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:20:18 naw 09:20:23 people just like to bitch 09:20:23 :) 09:20:45 I've been complaining about it for years. My dim recollection is that way back in, say, the year 2000, it wasn't full of irrelevant SEO'd results of people trying to sell me things. 09:21:15 Isn't there some nice ff plugin to remove those? 09:21:17 anyway, it's pretty bad. 09:21:17 back then seo stuff didn't exist to begin with 09:21:24 hefner: that's not really google's fault 09:21:25 That's true for non-scientific terms I guess 09:21:26 second seo stuff is semantics 09:21:39 whereas the group search is mostly influenced by google's changes and not much else 09:22:03 expecting google to sort out such fine grained details is impossible, humans can't do it for them selves sometiems 09:22:14 but I've heard a lot of complaints about their tweaks to the ranking/history/autocorrection algos in the last year 09:22:28 surely they could, if they had the power of Lisp. 09:22:36 ehe :) 09:23:18 one old time lisper tried to push it in google oddly enough 09:23:22 got shot down 09:23:40 (holycow: That statement was ironic) 09:23:50 i know 09:23:57 metawilm [n=willem@g225101207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:24:35 i ought to prefaced that with 'random factoid 09:25:37 holycow: "one old time lisper" being Lisper Formerly Known As Eran Gatt of course 09:26:40 oddly enough, someone got shot down trying to introduce lisp 09:27:10 tczy [n=tczy@78-60-36-72.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:27:15 mathrick: *nod* read quite a few posts by him 09:28:03 on the other hand, you don't really need google groups search, because regular google search has indexed three dozen sites that tack ads onto their own usenet archives, and are probably easier to find that way 09:28:35 Bah 09:29:06 will google deteriorate to the level where someone actually has to create something better? 09:29:42 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:43 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:29:50 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:29:50 -!- nvoorhies_ is now known as nvoorhies 09:29:55 *tcr* wishes for (declare (values ...)) being a regular CL declaration, and documentation-template being able to take it up. 09:31:13 Has there been any progress on documentation tools over the last year? 09:31:31 guaqua: What do you mean "oddly enough"? 09:33:11 beach: that was just a generalization of sorts from the previous discussion 09:34:01 guaqua: Yes, I realize that, I just don't understand why you think that is odd. 09:34:13 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 09:34:31 i think he was being ironic as well 09:34:32 :) 09:34:55 yes :) 09:39:21 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-134-5-244.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit ["..."] 09:39:28 it would be nice if it were otherwise 09:39:54 it's interesting how the default culture of an org defines how they view certain things 09:40:18 if humanity only had the ability to write macros for their brains 09:40:19 :) 09:40:27 <-- just learning about macros 09:40:29 heh 09:48:15 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-108-143.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:54:17 nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:54:28 vy [n=user@88.229.212.58] has joined #lisp 09:56:13 iwaki [n=hide@PPPa272.osaka.acca.dti.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:57:01 vy pasted "CFFI vector of structs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86255 09:57:03 segv [n=mb@p4FC1F6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:50 Hi! Can anybody help me with this CFFI problem: http://paste.lisp.org/display/86255 I'm trying to allocate a vector of structs. 09:59:57 is there a built-in to transform case in a way corresponding to a given READTABLE-CASE? 10:00:07 ie. :upcase, :downcase, :invert? 10:01:10 you can grab the one from swank 10:01:16 casify-char iirc 10:01:32 hmm, that doesn't really help me after all, I guess I need to transform by hand anyway 10:01:42 since I get the input CamelCased 10:02:53 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:04:41 Nevermind. (replace-string "(mem-ref" "(mem-aref") solved the problem. 10:09:23 GreatPatham_ [n=dan@c-24-19-169-87.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:23 -!- GreatPatham [n=dan@c-24-19-169-87.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:09:24 -!- GreatPatham_ is now known as GreatPatham 10:09:25 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 10:09:42 vy` [n=user@88.229.212.58] has joined #lisp 10:10:05 Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:11:28 oh that. the (dec) 's if is reversed 10:14:35 sorry, never mind 10:17:56 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has joined #lisp 10:19:54 -!- angerman [n=angerman@host41.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:20:58 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:20:59 angerman [n=angerman@host41.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:21:50 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined 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[n=user@adsl-99-184-204-143.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:55 what's %variable-rebinding for? 12:32:11 hmm i think i asked that already 12:32:17 minion, logs? 12:32:17 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 12:32:45 oops, no search 12:32:49 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [] 12:34:14 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1C7B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:36:21 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-65.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:37:00 Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@121.44.218.172] has joined #lisp 12:37:11 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:41:32 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-84-207.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 12:41:34 weirdo: you can limit google search using site:ccl.clozure.com 12:42:52 and i got my answer. thanks 12:43:13 and i even wanted to ask whether it's for register allocation, too 12:43:20 exact same question 12:45:43 you know what bugs me in slime? 12:45:53 when i call thing-at at the repl 12:45:53 weirdo: I hear RAM extensions are cheap nowadays... 12:46:07 it defaults to the REPL prompt 12:46:20 like, meta-point defaults to "cl-user>" 12:46:35 HG` [n=HG@xdslam168.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:39 You could add an advice. 12:46:59 mathrick [n=mathrick@130.226.70.177] has joined #lisp 12:48:28 -!- pdenno [n=pdenno@208-58-10-214.c3-0.gth-ubr2.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:52:21 weirdo pasted "thanks, pjb" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86257 12:53:28 i only recently found out about M-x find-definition and that xref link is available in C-h f 12:53:41 i don't know how that happened, because it's like, the most useful thing ever in elisp 12:55:37 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:56:26 ASau` [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 12:56:49 -!- ASau 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in files as sexps; i write the structure with metadata and data out to a file so it can be LOADed back later. 13:19:05 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 13:19:42 now, is there some danger in this? i am thinking about escaping strings, lisp injections and similiar stuff later on when LOADing? 13:20:04 i get the data as strings and write the sexp out with FORMAT. 13:20:47 *read-eval* comes to mind 13:21:43 so you say it is possible to "inject" lisp code within a string, so as to be executed later on when loaded? 13:21:49 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 13:21:59 how would you do that? 13:22:09 yes a string like "#.(do-stuff)" 13:22:14 #.(rm -rf /) 13:22:22 ..will execute, when *read-eval* is N 13:22:26 err .. T 13:23:00 also, interning is dangerous too 13:23:16 oh, wow. ok. so i should bind *READ-EVAL* to NIL before LOADing? 13:23:55 LOAD is like READ+EVAL, do you need EVAL? 13:24:37 i need to suck all the data into memory and create a dump so my users can delete and play with it. 13:25:03 yeah .. the reader will leak memory if you do, say: (let ((http-method (read-from-string "post"))) (ecase http-method (post ..) (get ..) ..))) 13:25:29 hypno: if you write the data as strings (i think *print-readably* suffices) so they end up with quotes around them in the data file, there is no risk reading it back in 13:25:54 (assuming the data is strings to begin with) 13:25:56 ..where "post" of course is read from a socket or input from a user or similar 13:26:11 metawilm: that won't do. i will preferably have metadata with the strigns. like a :DELETE field, etc. 13:26:27 okay 13:26:31 and this is a .cgi application, so that is why i am dumping new images. 13:27:43 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.97.74] has joined #lisp 13:28:00 cgi? lisp? 13:28:14 lnostdal: i am sort of doing it like that. deep down it's using GET-ENV in clisp with returns the CGI-environment string. 13:28:47 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:20 stassats: yeah. i wrote this site in a hurry years ago, and i only knew CGI at the time, and there was not other chooice really for netbsd servers. 13:30:02 hypno, ok, if you dispatch based on the actual string and don't read it to a symbol and then dispatch - you're fine .. e.g., (let ((http-method "post")) (cond ((string= http-method "post") (handle-post))) 13:30:37 silly gotcha really .. never know what sort of junk people will send on the interwebs ... 13:31:16 -!- dwave is now known as asksol 13:31:59 frito [n=keithman@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:21 Pepe__ [n=ppjet@78.113.44.92] has joined #lisp 13:34:15 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:08 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:24 lnostdal: hmm. i dont see how this is a problem. the cgi script will run for a second at most, and the user would have to supply like gigs of bullshit data if that is gonna be an issue? 13:36:11 if you're using plain old cgi it's probably not a problem 13:37:04 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit ["Am I missing an eyebrow?"] 13:37:20 ..if you're using fastcgi or something like that (point is; where the lisp process will stay up for a while and by definition actually have time to leak) it becomes a problem 13:37:26 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h6n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 13:37:57 ok. lets say i do write out a sexp (plist or whatever), load all the stuff back with LOAD with *READ-EVAL* nil, do i also need to take precaution when i actually fetch the data? say (getf name foo) 13:38:17 lnostdal: but if it will save state? 13:39:15 stassats, that's probably something that happens at higher levels (after reading+parsing) .. if the request is garbage we'll never get to that point in time 13:39:24 hypno: sounds robust and safe to me; except that maybe print-readably is needed 13:39:32 if it's clever garbage? 13:39:39 ausente [n=user5442@189-19-119-169.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:39:49 -!- m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:40:03 metawilm: ah, ok. 13:40:29 -!- ejs [n=eugen@222-25-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:40:41 hypno: if you read a property list back in, it's a list not coupled to a symbol, though it may contains symbols 13:41:07 does load make sense though? .. isn't read-from-string more suitable? 13:41:22 or just READ 13:41:34 yeah, with a stream supplied 13:41:36 pixel5 [n=pixel@copei.de] has joined #lisp 13:42:10 well, load implies there are files 13:42:30 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:42:34 metawilm: actually, other code will add symbol stuff to the list, like :view nil etc 13:42:59 hypno: maybe you can give a small example of the data you want to write? 13:43:29 do you write dumb data, or do you write forms to be evaluated? 13:44:03 stassats, lnostdal: well, there are files. when a user enter stuff in a form and press "send" the form handling code is invoked and dumps the data to a file in sexps (redo-log file). it then goes on to load the entire file and dump a new code image so i have the new data always in memory. 13:44:08 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:54 metawilm: the user always enter dumb data. the code add a few properties that has todo with how it's rendered in the admin field. (ie, viewable, etc) 13:46:28 can you give an example sexp that is in the log file? 13:46:35 metawilm: it will be something like: (push *foo* '(:id 123 :name "olle" :message "i want house nr 23" :email "dfoo@foo.com" :new t :date "date")) kind of thing. 13:46:44 play 13:47:01 okay, i mean :) 13:48:41 it's safer to just write (:id ...) and read it in using (with-open-file (f "log") (while .. (push (read f) *foo*)) 13:49:06 borism [n=boris@195.50.205.224] has joined #lisp 13:49:14 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.114.138.181] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:49:33 ah, ok. thanks, i'll do it like that then. 13:50:30 metawilm: hmm. but even then, i should put *READ-EVAL* to nil no? 13:50:34 yep 13:50:35 why not just ((:id 1 ...) (:id 2)) ... (setf *foo* (read stream)) ? 13:51:36 hypno: well, you can't put #. there, but setting *read-eval* to nil won't do any harm 13:52:08 for sbcl mac os x do I need the x86 or amd64 version? os x 10.5 is 64-bit afaik. 13:52:30 stassats: why can't i put #. in there? the user could enter that in one of the text-fields? 13:52:31 i'd get amd64 version 13:52:48 hypno: well, it'd escaped by " 13:53:10 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:53:12 stassats: ok, great. that is actually what i was hoping: somewhat secure by default type handling. :) 13:53:22 stassats: willdo. 13:53:44 nunb: but i've never used sbcl on mac os x 13:53:55 hypno, you never read from string -> lisp form in this case as far as i can tell .. so you're ok .. but binding *read-eval* to NIL doesn't hurt anyway 13:54:28 lnostdal: ok. will do, thanks. 13:54:35 -!- zoldar [n=zoldar@kyh66.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:01:24 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:04:34 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:48 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.4.216.79] has joined #lisp 14:05:06 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:28 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-204-143.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:06:52 -!- frito [n=keithman@cpc2-sout4-0-0-cust13.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:10:56 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.4.216.79] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:22:02 isn't there a 'cpuinfo' for mac? 14:23:26 Nshag [i=user@193.248.206.89] has joined #lisp 14:27:31 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1F6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 14:27:58 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 14:29:35 fusss [n=chatzill@115.128.30.11] has joined #lisp 14:31:42 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:33:33 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:42 -!- pixel5 [n=pixel@copei.de] has quit ["."] 14:33:49 pdenno [n=pdenno@208-58-10-214.c3-0.gth-ubr2.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:35:52 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 14:36:24 -!- bps [i=alvin@66.254.115.118] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:36:38 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:39:11 bps [i=alvin@u.NF] has joined #lisp 14:40:41 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-56-101.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 14:41:19 kpreid [n=kpreid@67.249.56.101] has joined #lisp 14:42:14 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.195.249] has joined #lisp 14:43:34 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-4-44.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:43:55 segv [n=mb@p4FC1F6EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:40 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:39 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:06:39 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:07:06 hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-108-143.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:07:33 Joreji [n=thomas@46-172.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:07:44 luis: is there a good way to wrap a pair of (char**, int) into a list of strings? 15:08:04 I mean with the whole TRANSLATE-{TO,FROM}-FOREIGN mumbo-jumbo 15:08:29 the problem being that they're two separate arguments on the C side 15:09:11 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@46-172.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:17 Joreji [n=thomas@46-172.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:13:05 -!- nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 15:19:45 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.134] has quit ["so long.."] 15:20:01 tczy [n=tczy@78-60-36-72.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 15:20:02 *wgl* installed Emacs Lisp Package Archive thingey 15:20:19 -!- tczy [n=tczy@78-60-36-72.static.zebra.lt] has left #lisp 15:24:20 -!- pdenno [n=pdenno@208-58-10-214.c3-0.gth-ubr2.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:25:22 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 15:27:00 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.4.216.79] has joined #lisp 15:28:27 logBot5931 [n=logBot@59.96.207.199] has joined #lisp 15:29:19 -!- boscop [n=boscop@g225237138.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 15:29:35 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:33:29 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B4893.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:33:35 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.169.107] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:39:51 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:40:19 mathrick: I don't think so, no. 15:40:34 bah 15:40:46 it's such a common idiom, I wonder how to wrap it in a sane way 15:41:14 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 15:41:54 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:03 mathrick: I guess we'd need a) a way to hide arguments in the wrapper and b) a way to access other arguments from within the translator methods. 15:43:07 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B4893.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:14 What's today's difference between CHAR-CODE and CHAR-INT? 15:43:55 luis: yep 15:44:12 tcr: isn't it that CODE can encode more things, such as font? 15:44:26 mathrick: it's the other way around, I think. 15:44:36 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-106-227.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:44:44 oh, maybe 15:44:46 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 15:44:52 right, that'd explain why CHAR-INT is never used 15:44:54 mathrick: Is there an implementation which has fancy char attributes? 15:45:10 yeah, symbolics for example 15:45:27 They don't even have a domain name, mmkay? 15:46:03 you asked :) 15:46:13 rvirding [n=chatzill@h6n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:36 I said "today's" 15:46:47 you totally didn't 15:46:53 "If character has no implementation-defined attributes, the results of char-int and char-code are the same. " 15:47:45 -!- logBot5931 [n=logBot@59.96.207.199] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:48:54 I hoped I would summon Krystof and be enlightened by some unicode-related jugglery 15:49:41 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:50:45 tcr: I don't think any sane implementation would go there 15:50:59 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:51:00 the very point of unicode is *not* to encode anything but abstract characters 15:52:35 cats seem to be incompatible with lisp 15:52:40 and coding in general 15:53:53 dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:59 -!- Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@121.44.218.172] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:54:42 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:54:58 whoa, symbolics lost their domain name, i didn't know 15:55:43 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.4.216.79] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:55:46 i bet they got a ton of cash for it, though. 15:57:00 I was betting on them forgetting to renew it 16:00:35 hefner: doesn't look like it 16:00:52 though at least it didn't fall for your run-of-the-mill squatter 16:01:26 lnostdal: hostinfo 16:01:52 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:02:32 run-of-the-mill squatter, no. polite and respectful, but still an 'advertising!' type (from a first look at the site) 16:04:52 edogawaconan [n=edogawa@solaris.math.itb.ac.id] has joined #lisp 16:04:59 -!- edogawaconan [n=edogawa@solaris.math.itb.ac.id] has left #lisp 16:06:03 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 16:06:40 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:06:59 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@115.128.30.11] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]"] 16:07:03 kpreid: AFAWCS, it's not a squatter: the domain may well have been sold. 16:07:26 But sure it's a shame. 16:10:42 seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:52 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-103.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:12:42 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:12:55 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 16:17:58 alexbobp [n=alex@adsl-75-34-100-218.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:03 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-106-227.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:20:23 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-65.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:20:26 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-105-177.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:02 kpreid: "real estate and domain investment" means they're upscale squatters 16:23:08 just so 16:23:14 basically, scumbags with more money 16:23:25 *antifuchs* hates domain squatters 16:24:56 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E43EDC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 16:25:03 -!- borism [n=boris@195.50.205.224] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:27:25 saikat_ [n=saikat@rrdhcp78-375.redrover.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 16:30:16 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:35:47 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:35:54 -!- ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-99-148-132-231.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:38:25 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-207.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:40:19 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:45 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:45:12 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:49 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 16:46:31 antifuchs: you're not the only one. One scumbag has been sitting on my domain for the past year :( 16:46:58 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:49:21 Does anyone have an unescape-html-string function handy? 16:53:33 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B4893.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:53:56 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 17:01:29 sepult [n=user@87.78.26.65] has joined #lisp 17:02:34 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:02:50 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:02:55 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:06:53 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-106-227.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:07:31 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:12:14 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 17:14:44 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:16:13 lisppaste: url 17:16:14 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 17:16:44 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 17:16:51 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:19:05 tcr pasted "CL-PPCRE question; splitting whitespace while retaining whitespace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86265 17:19:17 Any cl-ppcre guru around? 17:21:35 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B4893.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:39 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:25:36 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 17:27:27 you split on whitespace and retained whitespace? 17:28:04 so first split is an empty string "" and a string with a space " " 17:28:12 ? 17:28:42 you could always trim it beforehand 17:29:20 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:30:12 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:19 milanj [n=milan@79.101.169.107] has joined #lisp 17:30:31 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 17:30:38 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@188.3.224.172] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 17:30:45 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:30:55 tcr: I must have one somewhere... 17:31:44 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:34:03 letexpx [n=letexpx@abo-223-141-68.bdx.modulonet.fr] has joined #lisp 17:34:30 tcr: http://darcs.informatimago.com/public/lisp/common-lisp/hquery.lisp 17:34:48 query-unescape 17:35:28 AWESOME CODE YOU GOT THERE 17:35:36 luis: who? 17:36:08 the upper-case code is funny. :) 17:36:24 very retro. 17:36:45 luis: oh, you mean the caps. Have a look at downcase-lisp in http://darcs.informatimago.com/public/emacs/pjb-sources.el 17:37:14 *mathrick* hates pjb for all the "STRINGS" for symbols 17:37:20 -!- vyazovoi [n=vyazovoi@horrible-unlim.vpn.mgn.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:38:29 mathrick: if that was a problem you could easily transform them into #:. 17:39:28 I know, I do that every time I steal sources from you 17:39:48 but it's a bad practice that breaks when you actually use strings 17:40:16 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 17:40:30 mathrick: I don't like the aesthetics either, but why do you say it's bad practice? 17:41:09 luis: strings have only one case behaviour, :PRESERVE. Symbols don't, and that leads to problems every time some code makes symbols at runtime 17:41:30 I submitted a lot of patches to solve that in many places back when I was running with :invert 17:42:02 similarly bad is using (intern (format nil "FOO-~A" symbol)) 17:42:11 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:42:43 -!- letexpx [n=letexpx@abo-223-141-68.bdx.modulonet.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:42:52 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:42:57 luis: heh, in fact, I stopped using :INVERT after one too many time CFFI broke and I didn't feel like rebuilding the world with :UPCASE again 17:42:58 -!- GreatPatham [n=dan@c-24-19-169-87.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:42:58 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:43:02 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 17:43:34 maybe I could patch whatever was wrong with it and go back to :invert, it's a much nicer case regime 17:43:38 there are case problems running some libs in allegro's modern mode, which i guess would also occur outside Allegro with :preserve... i like it when library writers cater for this case 17:43:40 mathrick: hmm, I thought we used #: everywhere. 17:43:48 mathrick, do you use modern lisp mode? 17:43:51 metawilm: but modern mode is broken by design 17:43:55 tic: not at all 17:44:04 luis: it might've been grovel 17:44:47 metawilm: the problem with modern is that it lies about case 17:44:51 which is so dumb it doesn't even deserve any consideration 17:45:04 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:30 mathrick: i know there have been lots of discussion and complaints about it in c.l.l but i never took time to understand the problem 17:45:32 mathrick: I write in standard Common Lisp as much as possible. In CL, the symbols are upcase. 17:45:39 pjb: no 17:45:49 in CL, symbols are subject to READTABLE-CASE 17:45:52 The symbols in the package CL are upcase. 17:45:58 please get your facts straight 17:46:19 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslam168.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:46:20 ... but readtable-case is by default upcase in common lisp, isn't it? (he said, in all lower-case) 17:46:28 :upcase, even. 17:46:30 luis: the problem is also FORMAT, not just strings 17:46:46 if you do (intern (format "~A" sym)), things break 17:46:51 tic: by default 17:47:01 by default. 17:47:06 but that's not the same as "symbols are upcase in CL" 17:47:13 because that's not true 17:47:41 mathrick: I could put the matter on the list of questions to revise, but it's really not clear which of #: or "UP" is the best. 17:47:42 in the CL package they sure are. 17:48:18 hmm. am i really supposed to do OPEN *TERMINAL-IO* as (UNSIGNED-BYTE 8) if i want to write CRLF with write-sequence? 17:49:50 depends on your implementation, clisp will do the right thing for you 17:50:39 tcr: it is with clisp i have problems. 17:51:01 I believe you can specify what kind of line encoding you want for your character stream. 17:51:11 then it will automatically convert #\newline appropriately for you 17:51:26 oh. hmm. i'll check that. thanks. 17:52:14 Ogedei [n=user@e178202012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:54:42 pjb: I want to unescape   and so on 17:54:42 borism [n=boris@195.50.205.224] has joined #lisp 17:57:27 tcr: that would be found in a html parser. 17:57:33 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 17:57:47 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:58:27 -!- seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:58:34 tcr, it might already be "too late" or something might prevent it from being feasible or possible, but if this is user-input it is often a good idea to not escape any user input and just store it in the db as is directly .. then escape on output on its way back to the (or another) user instead 17:58:48 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 17:59:21 lnostdal: uh, that loses the original context and clutters your DB with useless HTML junk 17:59:43 you want to store in the DB, not <foobar> 17:59:46 mathrick, that is exactly what it does not do .. but i might have missed something 17:59:48 I just hack documentation-template to oblivion for my personal needs 18:00:09 tcr: probably you will find it in http://common-lisp.net/project/closure/closure-html/ 18:00:09 mathrick, yes, that is what i mean .. so don't escape < to < in the first place 18:00:13 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:00:23 lnostdal: but tcr wants to *unescape* things 18:00:35 so there's clearly input that comes escaped 18:00:41 mathrick, yes, and the question is "why" .. i realize it might not be relevant though 18:00:53 mathrick: regarding Allegro lying about case, is that still the case? they state, "Responding to user feedback, however, Franz Inc. reconsidered that decision. Allegro CL now provides full readtable-case functionality in Modern mode." 18:01:07 metawilm: oh, good. Last I read, they lied 18:01:15 mathrick, (the answer to "why?" might be that it is he himself who has already escaped things) 18:01:29 mathrick: this is from http://franz.com/support/documentation/current/doc/case.htm so it's been like this for a while 18:01:31 GreatPatham [n=dan@c-24-19-169-87.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:40 lnostdal: note that this also comes directly from the user in some cases. Less common now that unicode is widespread, but you might still hit character entities submitted sometimes 18:01:53 Well unescaping of text should be done by the HTML, SGML, XML parser that produces the text... 18:02:07 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 18:02:43 mathrick, yes, that is a related thing or issue 18:02:50 However, there are some file formats that have nothing to do with these markup, who still specify iso-8859-1 entities such as   in their strings (eg. GML). So you would have to unescape them yourself. 18:03:47 kleppari [n=spa@212.30.204.85] has joined #lisp 18:07:40 Good evening everyone! 18:07:58 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B4893.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:07:59 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 18:08:04 evening :) 18:09:09 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:34 evening beach 18:11:45 heya 18:13:42 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-106-227.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:15:12 -!- GreatPatham [n=dan@c-24-19-169-87.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:16:41 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:17:30 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:32 tcr: i don't get it. so i can define a new external format with EXT:MAKE-ENCODING and specify a DOS line termination, but i still need to make a new stream to use this? 18:20:30 -!- girzel [n=user@123.121.239.47] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:26:10 Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@ppp118-208-135-191.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:11 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 18:27:28 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:30:23 -!- Symmetry- [n=thezog@host-static-92-114-165-252.moldtelecom.md] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:30:31 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:30:59 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host154.190-231-49.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:31:57 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:32:14 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 18:35:28 Symmetry- [n=thezog@host-static-92-114-165-252.moldtelecom.md] has joined #lisp 18:36:42 hypno: stream-external-format is a function, not an accessor, in CL. 18:38:29 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 18:39:01 hypno: however, clisp has a SYSTEM::SET-STREAM-EXTERNAL-FORMAT, that you can call with SETF: (setf (stream-external-format s) ) 18:39:41 Write: #+clisp (setf (stream-external-format s) ) #-clisp (error "How do I change the encoding of a stream in ~A?" (lisp-implementation-type)) 18:41:14 pjb: and if i do that, it should fix line-termination globally or should i write to s? (what is s btw?) 18:41:27 s would be your stream. 18:41:52 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483DFD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:16 HG` [n=HG@xdslgb234.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:43:23 francogrex [n=franco@91.180.249.129] has joined #lisp 18:43:49 If you want to write to *terminal-io* with MS-DOS, #+clisp (setf (stream-external-format *terminal-io*) (ext:make-encoding :charset charset:iso-8859-1 :line-terminator :dos)) 18:43:52 Does anyone now of a CL implementation that might work of windows CE (windows mobile)? 18:43:58 on 18:44:18 francogrex: I'd try clisp first, then ecl. 18:45:13 Of course, in both cases, you'd have to recompile them... 18:45:21 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host203.190-137-197.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:45:41 francogrex: GCL also works, but its ANSI compatibility wasn't so great... 18:47:13 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCE247.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:21 pjb: i've tryied exactly that, and after it i do a (format *terminal-io* "~A" #\Newline), but it errors. 18:47:26 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 18:49:23 Indeed, it says that:*** - SYSTEM::SET-STREAM-EXTERNAL-FORMAT on # is illegal 18:49:26 :-( 18:49:44 yupp. 18:50:17 -!- Pepe__ is now known as Pepe_ 18:50:30 hypno: Try: (format t "~C~C" #\LineFeed #\Return) ; not pretty... 18:50:48 hypno: or rather: (format t "~C~C" #\Return #\LineFeed) ; not pretty... 18:51:59 prip [n=_prip@host30-133-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:52:14 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-32-16.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:52:58 define a +crlf+ constant or something 18:54:13 lnostdal: tryied that with the same array from hunchentoot. no luck so far. 18:54:38 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-4-44.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:54:56 (delete-duplicates (mapcar (function ext:encoding-line-terminator) (LIST-ALL-SYMBOLS :charset))) --> '(:UNIX) :-( 18:55:12 not as octets; as a string .. as pjb shows .. (define-constant +crlf+ (format nil "~C~C" #\Return #\Newline) :test #'string=) ... or so 18:55:24 -!- borism [n=boris@195.50.205.224] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:55:25 hypno: are you on MS-Windows or on unix? 18:55:39 i am on unix, but trying to a stupid Location: thing going, heh. 18:55:59 err, clisp is executing on freebsd, i'm on windows tho 18:56:25 hypno: the only solution I see for now, would be to edit the sources of clisp to add a predefined charset with the wanted line-terminator, so you can launch it with: clisp -Eterminal DOS 18:57:34 pjb, p_l: thanks I'll try, but then according to yous, it'll need trying to recompile on that specific system then (nothing already ready made) 18:57:40 -!- Symmetry- [n=thezog@host-static-92-114-165-252.moldtelecom.md] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:58:01 francogrex: indeed. Open source => compile it yourself! :-) 18:58:32 hypno: ask on clisp-list@lists.sourceforge.net 18:58:43 hypno: have you browsed the implementation notes too? 18:58:57 pjb: yeah, i've been all over the place. 18:59:02 i'd just brute force the darn thing and use a plain crlf string as a newline "character" ... 18:59:31 i think i perhaps can solve it by doing the uggliest hack of the century: (RUN-PROGRAM "my-clrf")-thing. 19:00:05 clisp -q -norc -x '(progn (format t "~C~C" #\return #\linefeed) (finish-output) (quit))'|od -c # gives \r \n 19:00:53 you'll probably end up wrapping stuff in a mk-http-header function anyway 19:01:03 ..so any hackery will be hidden 19:01:14 hypno: so for a Q&D hack you can just issue the #\returns you need, and if you want a persistent solution, I remember there's a place in clisp sources where predefiend encodings are defined. 19:01:38 metawilm_ [n=willem@g225021050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:02:37 ok, thanks. i'll try. 19:03:04 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.56.92] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:03:11 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.115.195.180] has joined #lisp 19:05:08 salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has joined #lisp 19:05:45 hypno: I found how to set the external-format of *standard-output*! 19:06:02 hypno: first set its element-type to binary, then back to character. 19:06:12 hypno: unfortunately, that doesn't seem to help: 19:06:17 clisp -q -norc -x '(progn (setf (stream-element-type *standard-output*) (quote (unsigned-byte 8))) (write-byte 65 *standard-output*) (setf (stream-element-type *standard-output*) (quote character) (stream-external-format *standard-output*) (ext:make-encoding :charset charset:iso-8859-1 :line-terminator :dos)) (terpri *standard-output*) (quit))'|od -c --> A \n 19:06:38 :-( 19:06:43 heh 19:06:55 We still get only the linefeed... 19:08:26 lispm [n=joswig@e177127186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:09:23 hypno: notice also that the streams may be built differently depending on the redirections you have. Here, with a pipe, *standard-output* is /dev/fd/1, while *terminal-io* would still be /dev/tty, and this is reflected in the structure of the lisp streams. 19:09:25 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:35 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177127186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:48 lispm [n=joswig@e177127186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:12:36 well, i guess this is what i get for not using an application server like paserve or hunchentoot or something from the beginning, heh. 19:14:40 htk_ [n=htk___@188.3.224.172] has joined #lisp 19:16:07 hypno, http://paste.lisp.org/display/86268 19:17:35 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 19:18:51 -!- metawilm [n=willem@g225101207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:18:51 -!- metawilm_ is now known as metawilm 19:23:59 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:24:53 guys thanks for hints again: after some suggestions from you giving me the right keywords for google here it is: http://www.rainer-keuchel.de/wince/gcl-ce.html 19:26:30 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.161.47.184] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:30:52 http://paste.lisp.org/display/86268#1 *shrug* .. probably a good idea to include (mk-http-header "Content-Type" "text/html; charset=utf-8") there too 19:32:37 (not tested...) 19:33:57 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@63.83.115.122] has joined #lisp 19:35:54 -!- francogrex [n=franco@91.180.249.129] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:41:04 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 19:44:05 GreatPatham [n=dan@c-24-19-169-87.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:30 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:53:08 [Jackal] [n=jkl2k5@118.95.42.206] has joined #lisp 19:54:55 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:50 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:56:33 yaroslav_h [n=yaroslav@93-120-152-66.dynamic.mts-nn.ru] has joined #lisp 19:57:31 lnostdal: i've tryied it but it doesnt work. it seems that it's still the CRLF stuff that messes up. 19:57:53 lnostdal: especially with more http-stuff in the header, i just get one long line. 19:58:00 hypno, i realized that that's actually a http reply .. for cgi you got to strip away the initial line and, stuff 19:58:22 but the crlf stuff should be correct 19:59:42 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.195.249] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:59:42 -!- Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.113.44.92] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:59:42 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:59:42 -!- xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:59:42 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-30-66.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:59:42 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:59:42 -!- p_l [i=plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-golzlipkizwogjqy] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:59:42 -!- scode [n=scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:59:45 scode [n=scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 19:59:45 p_l [i=plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-lrkkhmlxynyhoatv] has joined #lisp 19:59:53 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-30-66.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:59:54 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:00:03 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.195.249] has joined #lisp 20:01:01 ..i think .. but perhaps not .. screw it; you're on your own :} 20:01:36 i think i've found the problem. clisp seems to output "\n" on startup... 20:04:14 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 20:04:51 sad0ur_ [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 20:04:51 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.113.44.92] has joined #lisp 20:05:30 -!- sad0ur_ [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 20:06:15 -!- s0ber [i=pie@118-160-168-204.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:06:43 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-160-9.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:48 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@63.83.115.122] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:09:20 Moe111 [n=Moe111@204-225-123-132.xdsl.convoke.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:35 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177127186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 20:10:40 Hi all. Just came to announce that I've finally deployed my new lisp webapp, and that I'd like to thank the people here who helped me get through it, however disparately. In nor particular order, kpreid, p_l (the face man), stassats, gigamonkey, luis, and I am sure I forget a few others. 20:11:00 It's been a great project. thanks once again. 20:11:20 -!- Moe111 [n=Moe111@204-225-123-132.xdsl.convoke.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:12:36 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:38 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:59 -!- JHVH is now known as Deus-Imperator 20:19:12 that was nice 20:19:43 -!- ausente [n=user5442@189-19-119-169.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:21:03 nice, where is it? 20:22:07 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:22:33 salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has joined #lisp 20:25:13 he left 20:26:12 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:26:21 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:27:28 lujz [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-23-183.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:44 pdenno [n=pdenno@208-58-10-214.c3-0.gth-ubr2.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:02 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-68-108.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:29:10 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:30:39 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 20:31:26 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-30-66.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:34:31 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 20:36:34 bytecolor [n=user@32.155.24.108] has joined #lisp 20:37:26 I've a question about sbcl's ffi. Actually I'd like to know if I'm on the right track. I'll paste... 20:37:45 bytecolor pasted "FFI to WordNet 3.0" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86272 20:38:10 it's only a few lines... 20:38:42 -!- Ogedei [n=user@e178202012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:38:55 benny [n=benny@i577A1571.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:39:55 deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 20:44:16 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-32-16.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:44:20 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-106-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:45:28 seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:46:18 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:47:14 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-106-227.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:53 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:48:12 bytecolor: is there a reason why you wouldn't use CFFI? 20:48:19 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-191-200.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:35 michaelw: well... maybe because I'm a n00b to FFI in general ;) 20:49:01 so CFFI is portable? 20:49:27 CFFI is the suggested thing to do 20:49:39 -!- datou [n=datou@124.205.137.170] has quit [Client Quit] 20:49:39 ok, I'll look into that 20:53:26 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 20:54:12 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-1-48.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:55:35 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:58 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:42 -!- pdenno [n=pdenno@208-58-10-214.c3-0.gth-ubr2.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:57:36 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:58:54 Symmetry- [n=thezog@host-static-92-114-165-252.moldtelecom.md] has joined #lisp 21:00:41 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:41 -!- krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-106-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:06:20 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-112-5.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:10:36 -!- Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@ppp118-208-135-191.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:10:41 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 21:11:10 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:16:24 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Success] 21:21:53 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@rrdhcp78-375.redrover.cornell.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:25:02 htk__ [n=htk___@188.3.228.149] has joined #lisp 21:26:56 cool, me thinks asdf successfully installed cffi with all dependencies. 21:27:19 well, it finished any way ;) 21:27:40 now for some reading 21:28:03 sohail [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:32:54 asdf-install, not asdf 21:34:07 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 21:34:47 nod 21:35:51 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:22 -!- JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 21:39:18 -!- htk_ [n=htk___@188.3.224.172] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:42:47 how lovely. i'm done with the webshit for now. thanks a bunch. 21:45:00 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:46:17 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:17 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0BD13.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:48:05 it's quite interresting how fast you get one big pile of junk if you pass on CLOS and rely on closures and a DSL. it just get more and more hackish and not nicely extendable like with CLOS. 21:48:57 the initial extra newline was the problem? 21:49:15 pdenno [n=pdenno@208-58-10-214.c3-0.gth-ubr2.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:37 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:50:53 lnostdal: nope. it is some weird thing with clisp and cgi in that if you link to the same cgi script it all goes fubar. i have no idea why that is. 21:50:58 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:51:42 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 21:51:42 redirect loop? 21:51:47 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #lisp 21:52:14 ie, in say: foo.cgi: "blah" then it wont work. if you split it up with view.cgi instead it does. 21:52:43 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:44 why wouldn't that work? 21:52:46 i am not sure of why, but i should rewrite this site in something else really. 21:53:03 -!- metawilm [n=willem@g225021050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 21:53:11 that's technically incorrect and should be href="foo.cgi?page=view&nr=2" 21:53:19 you can't access the get-variable page? 21:53:23 not that this is likely related to your problem 21:53:32 kpreid: really? 21:53:58 yes, & is special in any attributes and should be escaped 21:54:14 what tells you that is meant as an attribute? 21:54:30 and not as a divider? 21:54:37 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:04 attribute refers to foo=bar in HTML 21:55:20 the content of the attribute, here a relative URL, is *completely irrelevant* 21:55:24 oh, sorry 21:55:37 i was just thinking about the URL :) 21:56:07 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229166027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 21:56:45 -!- nha [n=prefect@17-70.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Peace, Love, Linux"] 21:56:55 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:01:12 -!- angerman [n=angerman@host41.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [] 22:02:06 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h6n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:02:14 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 22:05:45 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:06:26 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.169.107] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:07:53 -!- iwaki [n=hide@PPPa272.osaka.acca.dti.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:10:07 -!- seangrove [n=user@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:10:54 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:17:02 sohail1 [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:48 -!- kleppari [n=spa@212.30.204.85] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:22:22 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:25:48 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:25:50 dralston [n=dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:29 -!- dwh [n=dwh@ppp118-208-171-218.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:29:32 -!- sohail [n=sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:30:39 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 22:30:58 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:35:55 p0a [n=user@athedsl-373693.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:36:04 How can I avoid doing something like (defun foo (args body) (eval lambda ,args ,body))) to have functions created at runtime? 22:36:08 er 22:36:12 How can I avoid doing something like (defun foo (args body) (eval `(lambda ,args ,body))) to have functions created at runtime? 22:36:32 clhs compile 22:36:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp.htm 22:36:56 <_3b> clhs coerce 22:36:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_coerce.htm 22:37:01 coerce? 22:37:50 stassats`: great! thanks. 22:38:01 <_3b> (funcall (coerce (list 'lambda nil 1) 'function)) 22:38:22 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B4893.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:23 coerce might be better if you don't want to compile 22:38:25 ampleyfly [n=ampleyfl@mustang.lysator.liu.se] has joined #lisp 22:38:33 implicitly compile 22:39:29 Why wouldn't I want to implicitly compile? 22:41:04 <_3b> yo might not if you only intended to call it once for example 22:41:27 -!- p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:42:33 _3b: It's not my job to call it. I provide it to the user of my functionality. Ie the user might do (let ((foo (create-func))) (funcall foo bar) (...)) 22:43:27 <_3b> well, maybe the user wants uncompiled functions for some reason then :) 22:43:48 p8m [n=user@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:51 *_3b* suspects it doesn't matter in general though 22:44:01 -!- bytecolor [n=user@32.155.24.108] has left #lisp 22:44:09 yep, it doesn't matter for this case. but I'll remember both ways now 22:44:31 JSas [n=J@124-168-242-53.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 22:45:11 ,flatten 22:45:29 Hmm... the bots not used like that eh. :-( 22:45:44 there is nothing inherently wrong with eval that makes compile or coerce better choices 22:47:15 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslgb234.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:49:00 hello, in GCL I have a list from which I select an atom. all items in the list are defined functions. I want to then evaluate that function with parameters (each of the functions are binary predicates). I have this: "(eval '(rel param1 param2))" which gives a cryptic error 22:49:19 Hmm 22:49:22 <_3b> (funcall rel param1 param1) ? 22:49:33 hmm shall try, thanks 22:49:38 JSas: Your terminology is confusing. 22:50:05 beach: sorry, I am new to lisp. tried to be as clear as possible. 22:50:15 <_3b> any particular reason to use gcl? 22:50:37 JSas: Is it really a list of functions? 22:50:48 JSas: Or is it a list of symbols? 22:50:59 JSas: Because functions are atoms in CL. 22:51:07 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 22:51:19 no sorry, just a collection of function names. there are also functions actually defined with those function names 22:51:19 *_3b* assumed a list of function designators 22:51:42 JSas: And you can evaluate a function, but a function is a self-evaluating object, so it would just evaluate to iteself. Perhaps you mean to CALL the function? 22:51:44 -!- Symmetry- [n=thezog@host-static-92-114-165-252.moldtelecom.md] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:52:00 yeah, call the function 22:52:58 JSas: (loop for symbol in list do (funcall symbol param1 param2)) 22:53:06 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-84-207.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:53:55 JSas: Not knowing the right terminology seems to have put you on the wrong track (using eval). 22:54:30 -!- Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:54:32 JSas: Still, what did you think (eval '(rel param1 param2)) would do? 22:54:57 <_3b> beach: i'd have assumed it was influence from other languages 22:55:00 probably. but we all learn somewhere 22:55:01 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:55:12 JSas: I am trying to teach you. 22:55:43 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCE247.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 22:56:24 JSas: Since the expression to be evaluated is quoted, it will call a function called `rel' with the values of two global variables called `param1' and `param2'. 22:56:25 I know, thanks. I was experimenting so I thought eval would interpret whatever it was passed as a line of code using the values for each variable hmm. 22:56:46 it was worth a try ;) 22:56:46 JSas: nothing to do with eval, really, but rather that you quoted it 22:57:12 (eval (list rel param1 param2)) might have been closer (but probably wrong w.r.t the params) 22:57:21 I did try that too 22:57:25 (but yes, funcall is the truly appropriate tool here) 22:57:25 first actually 22:57:43 JSas: This is a pretty advanced thing to want to do by a beginner. Perhaps you should learn a bit about Lisp before attempting such advanced things. 22:57:52 eh 22:58:05 calling a specified function is advanced? 22:58:25 kpreid: Having a list of names of functions, and wanting to call each one. 22:58:44 kpreid: Most non-Lispers would never even have thought such a thing to be possible. 22:59:01 ... 22:59:05 the world has moved on 22:59:13 <_3b> pretty sure i've done that in c or c++, before moving to lisp 22:59:14 has it now? 22:59:14 once upon a time, that was true 22:59:19 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-76-104-220-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 22:59:38 today, just about every popular language permits it and people do it 22:59:41 <_3b> well, function pointers, not names 22:59:45 not *commonly*, but generally aware 22:59:48 yes, pointers 22:59:54 _3b: That's different 22:59:55 but the difference isn't that relevant 23:00:12 It's the difference between Lisp and other languages. 23:00:42 Perl people do that quite a bit, but usually they're trying to violate encapsulation. 23:00:44 *_3b* would actually expect most languages to use names 23:01:27 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-103.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:01:29 beach: my point, I guess, is, don't make lisp sound more alien than it is now. because that's misleading *and* encourages the "lisp programmers are conceited and outdated" viewpoint (because of claiming as strange and lispy things that are not anymore) 23:02:02 kpreid: I guess you have a point. 23:02:10 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:02:59 kpreid: Still, doing it right requires some pretty advanced knowledge about the evaluation model of Lisp, and knowing about Lisp-2 stuff and function designators and such. I am not sure this is newbie-level stuff. 23:03:43 *UNDERSTANDING* exactly what will work and doesn't requires these concepts 23:03:52 <_3b> beach: maybe not unsassisted newbie, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to do with help 23:04:14 *USING* it, by someone *WHO ASKED FOR IT*, is entirely reasonable 23:04:27 I guess I'll let you guys handle it then, because it is bedtime for me. Good night! 23:05:12 JSas pasted "funcall" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86275 23:05:31 sorry to be a pain, but it is still erroring :( 23:05:57 <_3b> JSas: don't put ( or ) by themselves 23:06:13 <_3b> JSas: also, include the error 23:06:46 oh right, sorry. the windows gcl won't let me copy paste. hold on a second. 23:07:07 JSas: your list binary-predicates has one element, which is not a binary predicate. 23:07:11 -!- sohail1 [n=sohail@CPE001839a305c5-CM000a73a081a5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:08:03 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 23:08:07 Oh there is more people here. 23:08:11 I removed the others for clarity... not a binary predicate? it is supposed to just check if 2 integers are equal? so doesn't (= 2 2) work? hmm 23:08:28 <_3b> JSas: ah, too many parens in the first cond clause i think 23:08:32 JSas: = is not an element of the list binary-predicates. 23:08:36 I went to ##lisp and there was only 3 people there. I was like, wow, there used to be so many more people here. I told you that you should make a way for new users to learn lisp without emacs. 23:08:48 JSas: binary-predicates contains one element, which is: (s-eq =) 23:09:07 Lycurgus [n=Ren@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:09:37 kpreid: in the function call I pass the last element of the element selected from the binary-predicates hash (rel parameter) 23:09:39 _3b annotated #86275 "reformatted, fewer parens" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86275#1 23:10:20 hmm thanks _3b but why not put ( or ) on lines by themselves? 23:10:27 emma: what? 23:10:28 JSas: well, I can't tell that because you didn't include what the relationship between gen-rel and binary-predicates. 23:10:28 <_3b> returning '(nil) seems a bit odd though 23:10:30 (probably my influence with other languages again hehe) 23:10:30 emma: why would youw ant to do that? 23:10:51 JSas: putting parens on their own lines gives them pointless emphasis and makes it harder to edit 23:10:59 emma, learning emacs would open up many doors for you. 23:11:12 <_3b> JSas: that is the preferred style (at least here, but we are the ones you are asking to read it, so here is what matters :) 23:11:38 kpreid: hmm ok, it made it easier for me to match up the parens. I'm sure as I get better at doing it quickly it won't be as necessary. 23:11:43 p0a, i find emacs confusing and difficult to use, compared to something like gedit or kate. 23:11:44 that's your editor's job. 23:11:51 But i would like to learn lisp 23:12:00 emma: emacs is entirely unnecessary 23:12:01 know any good windows lisp editors? 23:12:07 <_3b> JSas: we generally rely on indentation before parens for reading code 23:12:10 emma: I'm an old mac fart and I use TextMate. 23:12:18 okay 23:12:20 emma: that said, emacs+slime makes a very nice repl. 23:12:26 'old mac fart'. meh. 23:12:32 Apple, I should say 23:12:42 You're a consumerist fart 23:13:10 <_3b> JSas: also, things like ((( stand out more than the way you formatted it, saw it as soon as i cleaned it up 23:13:15 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:13:15 emma: if you can stand a terminal you can stand using emacs for slime-repl. so do. 23:13:38 and use whatever you want for editing, as long as it can handle paren-balancing 23:13:45 Emacs is rather painful in a way that terminals are not 23:13:51 Though worth learning 23:13:57 Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 23:14:06 kpreid, well i use ubuntu and i use the terminal quite a bit. The funny thing about emacs is that it's not even a terminal ap. 23:14:06 Emacs is crap, but the best crap available insofar. 23:14:09 emacs has a gui 23:14:22 and it's recommended that you use the gui 23:14:37 The point is that a lot of things could be fixed/redesigned in emacs 23:14:38 <_3b> JSas: also, if you are expecting REL to be =, (list val) is probably wrong 23:14:40 it's recommended that you use what you like more 23:14:40 I went through the emacs tutorial. The keybindings are so tricky and unnatural! 23:14:43 emma: if I may put words in kpreid's mouth, he was talking about being willing to learn to be productive in a new environment. 23:14:49 no. 23:14:50 oh okay 23:14:51 emma: emacs runs fine in a terminal. 23:14:54 *Deus-Imperator* give p0a a biscuit and a beer 23:14:54 that is NOT my point. 23:14:58 _3b: just discovered that, thanks 23:15:02 emma: what keybindings are natural? 23:15:03 -!- hefner [n=hefner@ppp-58-9-108-143.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit ["I miss this place."] 23:15:06 emma: because they come from system that had different keyboard layout :P 23:15:10 mm... beer 23:15:15 dwh [n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:16 stassats`, all of them in emacs. It's much easier to use gedit or kate. 23:15:24 my point for emma is that if you consider emacs as a platform for slime-repl, then the keybindings are not especially different from the ones you use for e.g. line editing in a shell. 23:16:29 also, if you want to run emacs in a terminal (don't see why you would), that 23:16:33 's emacs -nw 23:16:37 Slime is good, and emacs can me an acceptable cost 23:16:41 <_3b> JSas: also if you write your alists like ((a . b)) instead of ((a b)) you can skip the CDR around ASSOC 23:17:13 well i do know that you can run emacs that way. 23:17:17 with emacs -nw 23:17:28 i used to try it out that way so i could get to it with ssh and screen. 23:17:34 It's somewhat less ugly than running it without -nw 23:17:35 emma: Then rebind the keys the way you like. 23:17:50 _3b: yeah I saw that syntax but in the example it seemed to return the list item anyway? I'll play around with it, thanks 23:18:38 you need to apply CDR, but not CADR 23:18:42 <_3b> JSas: actually, nevermind that last part, i'm confusing myself 23:18:48 _3b: hmm do I have to cast val 100 to number? 23:19:09 if i ever do learn lisp -- which is what i would like to do, but emacs is a barrier to entry --- One of the aps i will make is a new repl for people who arent' stuck in the 70s when it comes to editors. 23:19:09 cast? 23:19:15 <_3b> JSas: not sure what you mean... what does the code look like now? 23:19:24 one moment 23:19:30 emma: Aquamacs is pretty nice. 23:19:33 emma: please tell me when it's ready for uce 23:19:38 use even 23:19:45 emma: emacs is a barrier if you want to be productive, but no one forces you to 23:19:50 okay Deus-Imperator it's a dream but you never know. 23:19:54 (not that I use it, I'm ssh'ing into my debian machine at home on a screen session...) 23:19:57 <_3b> emma: tried eclipse/cusp? or one of the schemes with built in editor, or able? 23:20:00 emma: it's a pretty dream 23:20:16 -!- krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-112-5.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:20:48 _3b no i have not seen eclipse. 23:20:52 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-120-241.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:21:12 _3b i have used dr scheme for plt scheme. I thought that's a really nice repl that's fun to use. 23:21:14 emma: you might be interested in the clim listener (easily available through clbuild) 23:21:47 -!- pdenno [n=pdenno@208-58-10-214.c3-0.gth-ubr2.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:21:56 emma: the sort of thing you're suggesting has been suggested many times; the problem is that nobody who wants it has also decided to build it. (I'm not saying this is *good*, I'm saying that that's the situation as it is.) 23:22:09 <_3b> emma: eclipse is a java IDE, which can be made to work with lisp through cusp, no idea if it is what you want, but it isn't emacs at least :) 23:22:26 kpreid, oh well then that's kind of inspiring, maybe i can be the first to get there. 23:22:34 emma: so if you want a good lisp ide that isn't emacs, you will have to either do it yourself, hire someone to do it, or convince someone else it's a worthwhile project. 23:22:42 _3b: you were right, the (list val) did not work it errored with "Error in = [or a callee]: (100) is not of type number" on the line "(funcall rel (cdr (assoc key row)) val)" where val is 100, key is b, rel is = 23:23:15 There are also vim scripts that support lisp, though I can't say I liked the result. 23:23:48 emma: (don't try to convince me; for me Common Lisp, while a useful tool, is a dead end for the kind of programming *I* want to promote) 23:23:49 JSas: the CDR (rest) of the list (b 100) is the list (100). You either want the second element or to represent your associations as (key . value). 23:24:00 I still think that slime is worth the work, even though you have to use emacs 23:24:02 rvirding [n=chatzill@h6n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:06 kpreid, what kind of programing do you like to promote? 23:24:32 kpreid: is it E? 23:24:44 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@46-172.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:24:46 pkhuong: ah I get it now, thanks 23:24:58 Hmm 23:25:15 I want to replace atoms with lists in a tree but I don't want the recursive function to enter these new lists 23:25:28 Some code I've written works but is there any clean way to do this? 23:25:49 recursive function. 23:25:55 clhs sublis 23:25:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sublis.htm 23:25:57 stassats`: that's the right direction. it's not perfect either but the semantics are a better foundation 23:26:16 CL is too mutable. (but I'll shut up now) 23:26:37 <_3b> nah, not mutable enough, cola ftw :p 23:26:59 stassats`: sublis requires a known alist 23:27:06 imagine this example (list 1 2 3 (list 4) (list 5 6)) 23:27:24 Hm... I'm confused 23:27:56 (sublis '((1 . 30)) (list 1 2 3 (list 4) (list 5 1))) 23:28:02 => (30 2 3 (4) (5 30)) 23:28:10 No 23:28:25 Yes. 23:28:26 Let's imagine I have a function FP that tells me when something has to be replaced with a list containing as its only element that 23:28:30 How would I do that? 23:28:31 p0a: (maptree (lambda (node) (if (atom node) (list node) node)) tree) 23:28:38 ah 23:28:46 just write maptree 23:29:06 It's in http://darcs.informatimago.com/public/lisp/common-lisp/list.lisp ; but of course, it would depend on your own representation for the trees. 23:29:39 kpreid, you said that lisp wasn't best for the type of programing you like, what kind do you like to see? 23:29:43 -!- mrSpec [n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit ["bb"] 23:29:44 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:30:19 " CL is too mutable." would let us infer that kpreid likes immutable languages. 23:30:33 emma: above kpreid was talking about E programming language 23:30:39 manuel_ [n=manuel@krlh-4d0363e8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:42 Those that let you write only about a finite number of concepts. 23:30:48 har. 23:30:49 How can I prevent slime from spawning a *SLIME Compilation* and replacing the next window with it? 23:31:31 for the sake of the pedants, let me restate that: a CL system contains too many mutable locations 23:31:35 global ones, even 23:31:49 too customizable? 23:32:00 no, too breakable 23:32:00 kpreid: that doesn't mean you can't get isolated in an immutable system 23:32:41 kpreid: well, that's the point of a Von Neumann architecture: to have everything in a mutable memory. 23:32:42 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 23:32:59 that's mixing up levels 23:33:08 kpreid: that's isolating layers of abstraction actually 23:33:13 I don't think it mixes anything. 23:33:21 I meant to pjb 23:33:23 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:33:26 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 23:33:28 kpreid: notice that the first thing we do when we have Turing Machine, is to implement a Universal Turing Machine, to be able to change the program on the tape, instead of having it hardwired in the state machine. 23:33:48 sorry, not interested in programming turing machines 23:34:02 I'd rather use something practical 23:34:20 hey 23:34:21 shite 23:34:32 MAPTREE is not a standard function 23:34:41 kpreid: then why would you want to rigidify the langage? You've got two extremes, TM and LC, and CL is close to LC. Why would you want to go back toward TM? 23:34:42 p0a: (setq slime-highlight-compiler-notes nil) 23:34:49 stassats`: THanks! 23:34:53 oh wait, that's not it 23:34:57 p0a: why do you think I wrote one? 23:35:14 kpreid: gcl is what they're still teaching in unis ;) 23:35:19 pjb: because you encountered a problem which needed it? :-) 23:35:20 p0a: why do you think said: "just write maptree"? 23:35:34 kpreid: commonlisp rather 23:35:35 pjb, what is it about LC what isn't orthogonal to kpreid's dislike of mutability? 23:35:41 p0a: (remove-hook 'slime-compilation-finished-hook 'slime-maybe-show-compilation-log) 23:35:45 Well since you've written it, can I have it 23:35:45 pjb: um. that which I dislike about CL is pretty much the choice of ways in which it deviates from LC 23:35:55 stassats`: should I have both? 23:36:03 well, that depends 23:36:14 do you want notes to be highlighted? 23:36:19 kpreid: Ah, I see better. 23:36:23 stassats`: in the repl? 23:36:23 yes 23:36:35 then you need only the latter 23:36:47 (not in the repl, in the source buffer) 23:37:21 I am not looking for a 'pure' system (because mutability is inherent in the world) but rather one where mutability is a choice, not the default, and there are as few single built-in mutation points as possible 23:37:28 kpreid: notice that functionnal PL seem to meet some success in the financial world. 23:38:10 Well, I don't feel obliged to use mutability when I write CL code... 23:38:34 (And I mostly don't use it). 23:40:20 pjb: hey, I read your posts on comp.lang.lisp! (I just realized who you are) 23:40:41 -!- htk__ [n=htk___@188.3.228.149] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:40:41 I found an implementation of your maptree here http://darcs.informatimago.com/darcs/public/emacs/pjb-list.el 23:40:57 htk_ [n=htk___@188.3.228.149] has joined #lisp 23:41:06 didn't pjb give you a link? 23:41:13 im going to be honest with you guys.. I haven't really learned a programing language yet. 23:41:16 p0a: this one is in emacs lisp. The link I gave above is in CL. 23:41:22 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 23:41:28 i do not have to learn any language. I have a career, it's not for marketable skills. 23:41:33 emma: so you're just a wannabee? 23:41:34 I just want to learn to program for fun. 23:41:57 Then you reached the right channel, CL is for fun. 23:42:06 minion: tell emma about gentle 23:42:06 emma: please look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 23:42:12 May i ask what career? 23:42:17 dstorrs pasted "trouble with (im/ex)porting" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86276 23:42:26 Just in very non-specific terms, i'm curious 23:42:27 pjb: thanks, I had not seen the link 23:43:39 dstorrs, this channel is about Common Lisp, not Scheme. 23:44:03 Why isn't ther a channel about lisp, and why isn't it named #lisp? 23:44:19 historical accident 23:44:36 kpreid: thanks 23:44:41 p0a: but have a look at http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/b8d9376744b4ebb1 and http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/0c66e597e08be90d 23:44:49 well, what would you discuss at the channel about lisp? 23:45:16 lisp-1 vs. lisp-n! 23:45:33 emma: The way I got into programming was just farting around in a REPL. If you just want to start experimenting, CLISP, though not usually what I recommend, has a simple enough command line interface. 23:45:56 It just seems it would make more sense for #lisp to be about lisps in general 23:46:13 #lisp /is/ about lisps in general 23:46:18 not many people are interested in lisp in general 23:46:20 p0a: it isn't 23:46:28 Oh. I didn't know 23:46:30 well, comp.lang.lisp is. 23:46:34 -!- holycow [n=new@64.151.208.1] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:46:36 p0a: try discussing scheme and say that 23:46:39 Deus-Imperator: once upon a time, there were a lot of lisps, interlisp, maclisp, zetalisp, lelisp, etc, and it was a true Babel tower, programmers couldn't understand each others. Hence the Big Unification of the Lisp programming language into Common Lisp. (Something physicists are jealous of us CS guys). 23:46:52 #lisp is for CL, #scheme for scheme, #emacs for emacs 23:46:55 Deus-Imperator: so that's why there's only one #lisp and it's about Common Lisp. 23:47:12 So where do we go to talk about lisp? 23:47:18 Alternate universes are indeed discussed in metaphysical channels such as #scheme or #emacs. 23:47:25 Deus-Imperator: here. 23:47:34 No, this is common lisp only 23:47:41 Where to discuss lisp 23:47:43 ? 23:47:44 Yes. 23:47:46 Here. 23:47:50 You fail 23:47:57 Or i do 23:47:59 Deus-Imperator: what word don't you understand in "unification"? 23:48:00 Or both 23:48:03 Deus-Imperator: do you mean "LISP"? I think they discussed LISP back in the 1960 at MIT 23:48:22 Declaring something doesn't make it true 23:48:29 holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 23:48:32 scheme is a dialect of lisp 23:48:34 Who uses ZetaLisp today? 23:48:40 most people here are interested in practical applications, not some random rants about some abstract language 23:48:53 Deus-Imperator: alternate universes are there --> #scheme 23:49:01 Deus-Imperator: for scheme, go to #scheme; for clojure, to #clojure; etc... 23:49:08 I've nothing at all against a channel for common lisp 23:49:18 Good. This is it. 23:49:21 But i wondered if there were a generic lisp channel 23:49:30 It is here. 23:49:35 No, it is not 23:49:50 hey! 23:49:53 Where else did you hear about ZetaLisp? 23:49:54 As you will be admonished for talking about lisps which are not CL 23:50:46 ia [n=ia@89.169.161.244] has joined #lisp 23:50:51 Deus-Imperator: well, imagine you got to a Particule Physics Symposium and you start to talk about astrology? 23:51:03 Not comparable 23:51:14 Meh, g'night 23:51:24 Nice dreams! 23:51:36 Not likely, but thanks for the thought 23:51:50 Good night too! 23:51:53 pjb: so, astrology demonstrates uncertainty principle too? 23:52:03 stassats`: yes, astrology is very uncertain. 23:52:18 astrologists don't agree 23:52:24 Yes, but the interaction of stars with personality doesn't occur in our universe, only in an alternate one. 23:52:27 -!- Deus-Imperator [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-18.zen.co.uk] has left #lisp 23:52:41 One like #clojure or #scheme :-) 23:52:51 p0a: note the joke about "uncertainty principle"... 23:53:16 yeah I understood that... 23:53:21 Sun interacts with my personality very noticeably 23:54:32 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:56:04 I wish dstorrs didn't paste that thing. 23:56:53 alright i will get slime working in emacs.. 23:57:00 i wish i could just start learning lisp. 23:57:10 #@$% 23:57:18 well, do then 23:57:23 what's the problem? 23:57:28 emma: I recall slime in Ubuntu being easy to set up. 23:57:33 i hope so 23:57:36 emma: if you want a "walkthrough" of basic lisp features, there's a good guide... 23:57:45 minion: tell emma about casting spels 23:57:46 emma: you speak nonsense 23:57:48 emma, there are pre-packaged Lisps, like lispbox and lisp in a box 23:57:58 minion: tell emma about casting 23:57:58 emma: have a look at casting: Casting Spells in Lisp is a tutorial about macros, at http://www.lisperati.com/casting.html 23:58:12 in ubuntu, its apt-get install emacs slime 23:58:41 i then startup emacs, split the window into two with M-x 3 command, and in one i do M-x slime to start up slime in that buffer 23:58:43 i wouldn't recommend it 23:58:50 holycow, wow, the packaging situation improved? 23:58:53 then C-x o to switch between the buffers 23:59:01 stassats`, why not? 23:59:23 well it works, i'm not saying anything about the quality. i'm purely a scripting noob in way over my head with lisp 23:59:27 deepfire: because i had bad experience with CL related packages in debian based distributions 23:59:31 but thats the absolute fastest way to get started 23:59:34 i hope that helps emma 23:59:43 i'd recommend clbuild 23:59:55 stassats`, I presume holycow wouldn't recommend it if it was too bad