00:00:08 sykopomp, does the code have to be written in full lisp? 00:00:56 Fare: if you mean FFI to C, that's probably fine. It would be nice for it to be portable. 00:01:51 Fare: one thing which we don't think is possible to do using Lisp is finding out how many CPUs are available 00:02:09 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 00:02:24 Fare: I don't really care so much about implementation as long as it's easy to load up with asdf, and it's possible to make it OS and implementation-portable. 00:02:36 Adlai, you can read from /proc/cpuinfo, you know 00:02:58 sykopomp, what about xcvb instead of asdf? (semi-serious) 00:03:01 Fare: nice, that's one reason to pull in CFFI gone down the drain... 00:03:06 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-15-92.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:03:33 what I mean is that for a "same" piece of code to be compiled and be made available in multiple evaluation modes is doable, but a bit tricky. 00:03:43 Fare: both is fine, but I would rather not -tie- it to xcvb (since it's not ready for production, according to your own documentation) 00:03:54 evaluation modes being -- green threads vs os threads vs processes. 00:04:25 (actually, xcvb is ready for production -- it's just not ready to replace asdf -- nuance) 00:04:38 Fare: ideally, it would be something like green threads, and have each new green thread get scheduled into a number of native threads. 00:04:45 Fare: link to xcvd or info plox? 00:04:53 so, say, one native thread per processor, as per x86 erlang. 00:04:54 info plox? 00:05:05 s/ox/ease/ 00:05:36 sykopomp: woah, I thought each green thread goes into only one native thread, and each native thread has a bunch of green therads. 00:05:45 -!- alec [n=alec@pool-71-174-175-182.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:05:48 s/ra/ar/ 00:05:50 Adlai: that's what I meant. 00:05:52 gah. 00:06:00 Adlai, querying /proc/cpuinfo might not be easier than using CFFI. Certainly not very performant (but a once-per-session thingie) 00:06:20 Fare: it -would- be once-per-session. 00:06:35 Fare: once-per-session is definitely feasable, I don't think it's reasonable to expect a program to survive having a CPU ripped out halfway through :D 00:06:49 (literally!) 00:07:09 Adlai, might be if your program persists to disk 00:07:32 Fare: not if you do the check upon asdf-loading. 00:07:46 -!- hefner [n=hefner@c-69-140-128-97.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:07:54 Fare: do you mean that the program persists an "image" of it's execution, and can be restarted from that image? (like CL) 00:08:51 there might be CPU hotplug 00:09:19 true... it doesn't seem such an unreasonable expectation anymore. hm. 00:11:07 Adlai, yes 00:11:27 but that's not usually a problem 00:11:40 possibly all your code is either serializable or restartable 00:11:48 just like it is with any software, really 00:11:49 (defun set-number-of-threads (num) ...) 00:12:14 only your scheduler has to know the mapping -- and it is in the restartable category 00:13:04 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-71-134-239-165.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:24 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-71-134-239-165.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:14:37 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-71-134-239-165.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:12 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:15:17 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:15:48 sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 00:15:56 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:16:40 Fare: the other issue is figuring out how to integrate the conditions system with these scheduled threads so you have at least -some 00:16:54 - of erlang's robustness. 00:17:08 you might wanna talk to kpreid 00:17:13 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:17:14 doesn't green threads lead to one having to do non-blokcing i/o, anyway? 00:17:42 lnostdal: ideally, these would not block :\ 00:17:53 sykopomp: the condition system isn't a black box. It's all implemented on top of the special operators. Might be implementation-dependant, though. 00:18:11 no problems w/ the condition system -- the green thread scheduler "just" has to catch conditions and propagate them up the continuation stack (or do whatever with them) 00:18:43 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has quit ["leaving"] 00:18:58 Fare: so an approach, then, is to schedule a bunch of continuations into separate threads? 00:19:13 for portable green threads, you'll want arnesi's call/cc, weblock's version, screamer's or whatever else -- and there you can control how conditions are handled 00:19:29 (i.e. you have a lisp-to-lisp/cc compiler/interpreter) 00:19:52 I'm confused. Why do we need continuations for this? 00:20:20 sykopomp, for the poor man's green threads, see philip-jose's local-tasks.lisp (implemented on top of arnesi's -- would work as well on top of any call/cc) 00:20:24 (or rather shift/reset) 00:20:29 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-45-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:20:42 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 00:20:43 Adlai, for semi-portable green trheads 00:20:54 arnesi's are serializable, too 00:22:05 yes, but why do we need continuations for threads? is it for the idea of stopping and starting execution? 00:22:12 sykopomp, i think you need to implement that using non-blocking i/o internally .. then wrap it in a blocking i/o api w/continuations etc. .. (just a hunch) 00:22:17 yeah 00:22:43 sykopomp, (because you cannot control the blocking linux system calls wrt. i/o .. you cannot "continue" or schedule them) 00:22:49 Would you have a pool of workers that do blocking IO? 00:22:51 was there something I should notice? 00:23:08 Kind of : "There are 20 worker threads for blocking IO" 00:23:23 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:23:53 I think Haskell's GHC works like that 00:24:09 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 00:24:25 it spawns as many OS threads as it needs to manage all blocking calls + as many CPUs as you have for running computations 00:24:39 sykopomp: what if we only had "condition system protection" for fibers when the condition got handled? ie, if it hits the debugger, we consider it serious enough to pause the system? 00:24:40 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 00:24:53 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-18-19.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 00:24:57 Adlai: dunno 00:25:22 lnostdal: hm. 00:25:39 I'm getting lost a bit now. 00:26:08 actually, what I just said makes no sense 00:26:10 forget it. 00:26:11 simard [n=user@modemcable051.89-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:26:14 Has anyone done anything with PostGIS in Lisp? 00:27:13 sykopomp, yes you could have pools of green-threads, scheduled in each of multiple os-threads 00:27:55 you could also have "direct" code that the user either promises to play cooperatively, or that will be spawned in its own os-thread or process 00:28:09 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 00:28:10 (process if it can't cooperate deathwise) 00:28:32 kpreid, why have any blocking calls at all? 00:28:45 FFIing to things which block 00:28:53 oh, yes -- yuck 00:29:01 if cl-cont is good i'm pretty sure i can implement something like that, sykopomp .. and yeah you really need continuations to pull this off, Adlai .. (unless i'm totally missing something :P) 00:29:05 sometimes, you even have to spawn a subprocess 00:29:22 because the blocking thread won't play nice with being killed 00:29:45 lnostdal, once again, pj's local-tasks.lisp could be your starting point 00:29:54 or a test of your low-level primitives 00:30:12 lnostdal: that would be very very very exciting, and you can count on having help around for testing/debugging/maintenance. 00:30:12 implementing common patterns on top of them already) 00:32:10 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 00:32:37 sykopomp, iolib already have the non-blocking stuff, so .. Fare, that's part of arnesi? or is it something external? 00:34:26 lnostdal, the call/cc (really shift/reset) thing is part of arnesi 00:34:56 my trivial green threads on top of it is part of philip-jose (which is a working but otherwise not a very usable product) 00:35:21 (i.e. its remote job queueing is very special-purposed to the needs of a particular task I had) 00:35:25 is it a good idea this though? .. i worry about debugging etc. .. that's what you've been talking about here perhaps :) 00:35:43 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 00:37:34 -!- npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:38:33 lnostdal, one feature I really would like to see is the "one source can be compiled in different ways" thingie 00:38:53 so that to debug, you'd spawn one thread just for your code using the "normal" evaluator 00:39:00 or one process, even 00:39:23 yeah, and not end up with a million lambdas 00:39:23 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:39:27 (right?) 00:39:44 yup 00:39:45 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:49 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-9-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:41:06 lnostdal: by "debugging etc" do you mean the fact that everything pauses when we hit the debugger? 00:43:23 although "multiple evaluation models" would only work if we can either afford to restart the thing to debug, or serialize it and unserialize w/ a different strategy 00:43:36 Adlai, i was thinking of the code generated by cps 00:44:02 Adlai, http://paste.lisp.org/display/84206#1 00:44:12 ..idunno.. 00:44:37 pizzledizzle [n=pizdets@pool-96-250-220-91.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:23 *Adlai* falls off chair. 00:46:48 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 00:47:00 yeah, green threads; you must be able to have those be interrupted at any time .. then continue :P ==> scheduling! (right? .. heh) .. hence the gazillion lambdas .. i think of them as start/stop points .. blocking i/o wrapped around this doesn't really block; it just seems to block from the end-users point of view 00:47:34 (it is just stopped, then continued .. behind the users back) 00:49:02 lnostdal: yeah, I think I understand that now. 00:49:37 in general (i'm not sure about this..) i think some way to control frames etc. for debugging when creating or dealing with any DSL would be interesting .. i'm not sure this is even possible 00:50:10 but maybe what fare suggest is a much better way; just disable it temporary .. but then again; reproducing the error might be hard .. *sigh* 00:50:29 (by it i mean CPS .. disable it then try to do debugging ... ) 00:50:36 -!- Phaze [n=PhazeDK@0x5da32b16.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1104.soebnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:50:53 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #lisp 00:56:43 whats the function that names anonymous functions ? 00:56:55 WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has joined #lisp 00:57:17 Is there a #'flatten-tree function already defined in lisp? 00:57:17 simard: you can't name an anonymous function. Instead, you could put it inside the function cell of a symbol, and then you'd be able to invoke that function like named functions. 00:57:25 clhs labels 00:57:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_flet_.htm 00:57:33 WarWeasle: no 00:57:36 not function, though 00:57:40 stassats: that's only lexical though. 00:57:46 Xach: Thanx! 00:57:57 well, it makes a new binding, rather than changing an existing one. 00:59:12 simard: if you have an anonymous function stored inside a variable FOO, and you want to be able to invoke it with the name BAR, then (setf (symbol-function 'bar) foo) 00:59:35 well that's probably what I want 00:59:37 well, it doesn't change the existing binding, it shadows it 00:59:37 thank you 01:00:01 how do I unshadow it ? 01:00:27 it shadows it only lexically 01:00:30 sykopomp, for my i/o stuff i just ended up doing very simple and specialized "manual cps"; i gave up on placing or having this as an "invisible layer underneath lisp in general" :P .. the points where things can stop & continue are much coarser .. cps for more fine-grained stuff would certainly be interesting for some stuff though ...... :) 01:00:30 simard: with labels, the "unshadowing" happens when you leave the scope of the labels. 01:00:58 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:59 and i was talking about LABELS, not symbol-function 01:01:28 jsoft [n=user@ip-118-90-123-121.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:01:32 -!- jsoft [n=user@ip-118-90-123-121.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:01:55 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 01:02:41 -!- Samy [n=sbahra@c-68-50-176-174.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:02:52 lnostdal: manual cps? 01:02:53 *sykopomp* cries. 01:03:06 sykopomp: hm? 01:03:21 -!- jao [n=jao@21.Red-83-43-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:03:35 Adlai: continuation passing style. 01:04:08 yeah, but why is that a reason to cry? 01:04:37 I mean, it looks like we're gonna have to use continuations to make fibers work 01:05:15 Adlai: I thought what he meant was 'manually code in cps in order to get it to work' 01:05:42 sykopomp, yes, each task keeps track of what it was doing last as it is woken up .. "what was i reading? and where should i continue appending data?" .. "what was i sending -- and how far did i get last time?" .. stuff like that; very coarse 01:05:52 sykopomp: hm, no, I think that we'd want our fibers system to macromatically make our stuff CPS 01:05:56 -!- Fare [n=Fare@bleriot.merseine.nu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:06:07 so that we'd store each fiber as a continuation 01:06:17 yes, that's the ideal 01:06:20 I think 01:06:46 if I understood this stuff well enough, though, I would probably be implementing it myself right now, so a lot of this is going over my head. >S> 01:06:59 sykopomp: what do you not understand? 01:07:28 Adlai: I'll reread this and give you better specifics. I'm multitasking (cooking, reading this, planning, invading) 01:07:51 sykopomp: using green threads? 01:08:01 stassats: no. Implementing them. 01:08:12 sykopomp: invading? \o/ 01:08:21 (that dude isn't happy, he's scared) 01:08:29 sykopomp: well, how do you achieve multitasking? 01:10:41 stassats: by running around back and forth in the kitchen between the stove, a cut-up mango, and my eeepc. 01:10:51 at least this implementation 01:11:30 bighouse [n=bighouse@modemcable239.238-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:11:31 sykopomp: man, you need fibers pretty badly, and I'm not talking fruit here. 01:11:34 :D 01:12:48 pjb pasted "(INTERSECTION 'R5RS 'COMMON-LISP) " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/84252 01:13:11 Here is something silly: a subset of CL that is also a subset of Scheme. 01:13:23 So you can write programs working both in scheme and CL :-) 01:14:07 terrifying. 01:14:22 The paste includes also a more complete R5RS library. 01:14:44 set! doesn't do setf's (setf foo bar baz quux a b) trick? 01:14:46 sykopomp: what a lisper may spend his sunday evening... 01:14:54 pjb: a worthy endeavor, of course ;) 01:15:09 I had R5RS under the eyes. It seems not. 01:15:12 pjb: semantic intersection? 01:15:19 Basically, yes. 01:15:25 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-84-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 01:15:38 You have to take care not giving arguments outside of the semantic intersection. 01:16:24 chessguy_work [n=chessguy@c-76-124-142-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:43 I haven't tested the library, I should try to find a R5RS validation testsuite... 01:17:15 stassats: if you want a proof of semantic intersection, please provide the formal semantics of Common Lisp! R5RS provides it for scheme :-) 01:17:38 that's a challenge 01:17:47 It would be great to have it. 01:17:55 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-163-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 01:18:25 With time, it'd be my goal to build an AI able to read the spec and provide an infered formal semantics. 01:19:24 pjb: I sense many heap exhaustions in your future. 01:19:58 Won't we have 128-bit address spaces eventually? 01:20:02 *stassats* is really annoyed that CAR/CDR don't work on empty lists in scheme 01:20:11 slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-163-189.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:20:13 Yes, it's silly. 01:21:01 and other little things, like undefined evaluation order, undefined result of some forms 01:21:02 It really makes you write much more code to handle the boundary cases. 01:21:31 stassats: schemers would answer "staline"... 01:22:15 pjb: as soon as we run out of 64bits, sure ;) 01:22:37 -!- chessguy_work is now known as chessguy 01:22:41 pjb: and i wouldn't get it 01:22:47 -!- bighouse [n=bighouse@modemcable239.238-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:23:06 stassats: staline is a scheme compiler producing very efficient code. 01:23:34 Well, time to sleep. ( and the pidgeon flies away :-) ) Good night! 01:23:35 pjb: stalin? no e, iirc. 01:23:42 goodnight 01:23:52 yeah, "e" confused me 01:24:06 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-204-6-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:24:13 stalin is kind of obsolete now 01:24:14 pjb: how does it compare to icarus? 01:24:24 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:24:29 *sykopomp* thought icarus was the fancy super-fast scheme these days. 01:25:50 ikarus! 01:26:03 that one. 01:26:20 today is scheme-implementation-misspelment day 01:26:46 stassats: nah, just general misspelling day :P 01:27:03 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #lisp 01:27:14 ikarus has a pretty simplistic compiler, but I guess if you write code in a low-level style it will run fast 01:27:17 c|p [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has joined #lisp 01:27:42 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 01:27:48 ikarus is ia-32 only, no good 01:28:05 meh 01:28:12 plt is pretty fast too, though, innit? 01:28:31 I don't think plt is fast, it doesn't do too well on the shootout 01:29:38 the shootout is meh, though :\ 01:29:49 shouldn't gcc perform better than g++? 01:29:59 I've always wondered about that... 01:30:07 with g++ you can often write faster code because of templates 01:30:15 fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has joined #lisp 01:30:34 -!- c|p [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has quit [Client Quit] 01:30:36 -!- krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-18-19.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:30:40 slava: yeah, but I'm not sure the benchmarks actually use templates.... 01:31:09 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:32:17 why there is no Factor at shootout? 01:33:12 slava, why is stalin obsolete? 01:33:41 slava, not up to speed with recent RxRS? 01:33:42 it supports only a subset of r4rs? 01:34:22 deepfire: his 'interpretation' of marx didn't seem to have worked out, mainly. 01:34:51 sykopomp, oh boy, don't get me started.. 01:35:33 hahaahahahahahahahahah 01:35:45 sykopomp: I think he optimized prematurely. 01:35:53 Adlai: ralith? Yeah. ;\ 01:35:59 that's quite a mess :| 01:36:12 I guess doing faithful ports of C++ code to lisp is tricky enough <_< 01:36:37 :[ 01:36:51 Ralith: it's not your fault :( 01:36:52 sykopomp: wrong channel I think? lol 01:36:57 Adlai: yes. 01:37:07 Ralith: we -could- just start with uh... the actionscript version instead. 01:37:09 rite? :P 01:37:16 eh 01:37:20 see previous argument 01:37:30 I must've missed it. Lossyness? 01:37:43 in the sense of quality of implementation, yeah 01:37:50 not necessarily there but there would seem to be a strong risk 01:37:58 true 01:38:07 besides, it's not hard to write this, and we can easily tweak later 01:38:18 man. Good thing it's not hard. 01:38:22 :P 01:38:30 <3 01:38:38 you're welcome to do your bits as typelessly as you like ^^ 01:38:46 hahaha :D 01:39:07 I might try and throw some code together tonight at some point. 01:40:17 sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 01:40:27 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:46:36 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.139.124] has joined #lisp 01:49:12 overdrive [n=overdriv@client-86-25-216-177.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:12 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-71-134-239-165.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:49:15 hi ppl 01:51:47 jchicas [n=jchicas@139smtph3wg.tigo.com.sv] has joined #lisp 01:51:57 dwh [n=dwh@ppp118-208-241-91.lns10.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:03 -!- jchicas [n=jchicas@139smtph3wg.tigo.com.sv] has quit [Client Quit] 01:52:04 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:54:14 I apologize, but I can't help but laugh at overdrive saying "hi ppl" 01:54:57 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1DC7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 01:57:14 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-71-134-241-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:00 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:00:25 Quadrescence: ?? 02:00:35 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.139.93] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:00:55 fe[nl]ix: I don't know. It is just somehow comical to see "hi ppl" in this channel. 02:01:15 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:01:33 Quadrescence: why comical? 02:03:21 is there anyone here that has tried to "port" ruby blocks to lisp ? as in writing a macro that would define a function that could take or not take an optionnal "block" (lambda) and call it with "yield"? 02:03:49 overdrive: This is getting offtopic fast, but, just because ... I don't know. Because words in certain environments cause certain emotions to fire. :{ 02:04:57 "ppl", "u", "thx", etc. are usually frowned upon 02:06:47 simard: how about calling it with funcall or apply? 02:10:36 -!- Adlai is now known as Adlai-AWAY 02:10:57 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:11:21 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:53 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 02:12:06 -!- Adlai-AWAY is now known as Adlai 02:12:23 -!- Adlai is now known as Adlai-AWAY 02:12:31 TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has joined #lisp 02:12:55 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-177-41.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:47 hefner [n=hefner@c-69-140-128-97.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:47 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:16:17 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:17:00 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:17 emacs [n=overdriv@client-86-25-219-111.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:24 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:33 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:19:37 sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 02:22:57 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:23:05 wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d817ca1.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 02:23:41 hey #lisp 02:24:00 what's a good way to implement float-approx= 02:24:29 -!- wakeup_vanuber [n=wakeup@koln-5d815479.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:25:06 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:25:34 -!- overdrive [n=overdriv@client-86-25-216-177.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:26:32 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:04 -!- TDT [n=user@vs1202.rosehosting.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:31:38 is it possible to get the list of the arguments from within a function ? for example, within (defun test-func (a b c d) ..... here I want to get '(a b c d)) 02:32:19 -!- Adlai-AWAY is now known as Adlai 02:33:36 not the actual values of a b c and d in a list, the actual list '(a b c d) 02:33:42 (list of symbols) 02:33:46 simard, not portably. 02:34:47 simard, actually your problem has two components: 1. determine the name of the function at the bottom of the stack, 2. get the function arglist of the function going by that name 02:36:12 yeah.. quit possibly I could solve this with a simpler fix 02:36:16 simard, part #2 is doable in SBCL using SB-INTROSPECT:FUNCTION-ARGLIST 02:36:17 quite 02:36:25 gko [n=Keca@114-137-69-64.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:58 but I don't want to do this, what I really want to do is searching within a &body body field and substituting some form for another 02:37:09 and I will not need to get my function's argument list 02:37:13 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-163-189.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:37:22 simard: Wouldn't a macro be appropriate for that? 02:37:34 ^ 02:37:41 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:37:43 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@c-76-124-142-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:38:09 well, if the macro knew a certain variable name 02:38:47 but at the moment of the execution of this macro, the toplevel macro would have been executed already and my gensym is gone 02:42:49 What problem are you trying to solve here? 02:43:54 -!- gko [n=Keca@114-137-69-64.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:45:09 it's actually getting a bit late here and I can't really think anymore so I'll just sleep on this.. 02:47:03 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit ["leaving"] 02:47:21 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:48:17 gko [n=Keca@116.59.40.120] has joined #lisp 02:54:30 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-163-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 02:55:20 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:56:12 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-208.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:56:31 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 02:56:49 Is (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op ) the best way to "require" a system, that is, load it if it's not loaded, and do nothing if it already is? 02:59:43 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-163-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:00:12 -!- pizzledizzle [n=pizdets@pool-96-250-220-91.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:00:13 pizzledizzle [n=pizdets@pool-96-250-220-91.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:49 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-160-171.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:16 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:03:16 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 03:04:10 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-91e386edd1e5b4c1] has joined #lisp 03:06:24 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:10 -!- emacs [n=overdriv@client-86-25-219-111.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [] 03:13:26 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 03:15:38 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:15:53 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:17 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-30-10.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 03:17:45 fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has joined #lisp 03:18:52 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has quit [Client Quit] 03:25:08 -!- simard [n=user@modemcable051.89-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:26:35 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:30:28 fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has joined #lisp 03:31:34 -!- dalton is now known as Breno_Brand 03:33:49 ravster [n=user@69.172.114.222] has joined #lisp 03:33:51 Hello all 03:34:16 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-84-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:34:48 in ASDF, how do I have a component file of one module depend on a component file of another module? 03:35:53 You make the first module depend on the second. 03:36:13 I'm trying to make a macro to find the extremum of that last 'x' objects in a vector, & have used a macro to loop to make 'x' forms of a similar type. the problem is that these are all collected as a list, but I want them not in the form of a list. how do I have the leading and trailing () removed from the final return value of the macro? 03:36:31 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 03:37:13 ravster: just put ,@ before the returning form in the macro 03:37:25 where by "returning form" I mean the last form at the "top level" of the defmacro 03:38:28 pkhuong: kk 03:39:01 -!- Breno_Brand is now known as ausente 03:40:05 Adlai: ok, so would that be in front of the 'loop' command? I'll just try that. Thank you. 03:41:43 ravster: yes, if your defmacro looks something like this: (defmacro foo (bar baz) ... (loop ...)) 03:42:02 well actually 03:42:29 ravster: where's the backquote? I assume you're returning code to be evaluated 03:42:31 pkhuong: I'm getting 'failed to find the TRUENAME' for the first one of my files. 03:42:35 any idea what caues that? 03:42:36 causes* 03:43:21 Adlai: Right, and the returning forms that I want are 'collected' within the loop. The code I want is not to be evaluated, that code is just raw data for the 'max' function in the main program. 03:43:37 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-76-17-212-158.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:44:18 ravster: then try (defmacro foo (bar baz) `(car (loop ...))) 03:45:15 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-177-41.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:38 Right now the macro returns ((a) (b) (c) (d)), and I want it to just return (a) (b) (c) (d) 03:45:55 ravster: as multiple values? 03:46:27 yup, because the (a) (b) etc. will be inputs to the 'max' function in the main program. 03:46:28 you can't have a single macro call expand into multiple forms. 03:46:49 you could try using (apply #'max (macro-call foo bar)) 03:46:55 I tried doing it without the :collect keyword but it wouldn't work. 03:47:26 Adlai: oh, thats good. I didn't think about that. 03:47:35 *ravster* looks up 'apply' 03:47:46 ravster: just like funcall, except the last argument has to be a list. 03:48:02 Alright. Thanks Adlai. 03:48:16 Tordek [n=tordek@host157.190-137-190.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:50:22 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-177-41.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:50:54 ravster: no problem, glad to assist :) 03:52:34 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:58:49 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-91e386edd1e5b4c1] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:01:01 saikat__ [n=saikat@adsl-71-134-241-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:42 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.5.173] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:04:11 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B6B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:04:22 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483B6B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:47 jmbr [n=jmbr@179.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 04:05:43 jedahu [n=jdh@ip-118-90-52-64.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:06:43 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 04:07:10 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest57165 04:08:55 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-71-134-241-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:13:49 -!- ravster [n=user@69.172.114.222] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:18:45 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-132-160.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:12 moove [n=dan@adsl-70-231-247-203.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:10 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 04:29:33 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:29:34 -!- saikat__ [n=saikat@adsl-71-134-241-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:29:37 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-7f5729a70b4e4463] has joined #lisp 04:29:40 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:30:51 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E43937.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:19 -!- moove [n=dan@adsl-70-231-247-203.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 04:34:29 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:36:24 (let ((js "alert('hi');")) (ps:ps* `(when t ,js))) ==> if(true){ "alert('hi');" } ;; hm, nope .. is there a raw-inline or so? 04:36:49 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-71-134-237-184.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:53 -!- nunb [n=user@94.161.30.36] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:38:06 -!- gko [n=Keca@116.59.40.120] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:41:32 -!- ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:43:34 tltstc` [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:44:51 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:45:50 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-71-134-237-184.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [] 04:46:08 -!- tltstc` is now known as tltstc 04:47:51 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E46658.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 04:54:22 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:55:49 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 04:58:35 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:04:41 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-50-176-174.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:04 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:06 y'all will be pleased to hear that i have reinvented yet another wheel and that cl-bio now does what kmr's cl-pubmed used to do for me only better-ish. 05:14:11 among other things... 05:16:29 a newer, better wheel, with fewer edges. 05:18:39 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:23:42 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:42 -!- vandemar [n=anon@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:42 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:42 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:42 -!- jedahu [n=jdh@ip-118-90-52-64.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:42 -!- faure [n=moe@CPE001217e40caa-CM0018c0c09832.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:42 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:42 -!- hdurer [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-680b263bdfae315a] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:42 -!- koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.107.70] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:42 -!- guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:42 -!- sepisultrum [n=enigma@hcl-club.lu] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-207-110.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@ppp-70-253-87-206.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- azuk` [i=azure@s2.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-50-176-174.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d817ca1.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- kidd [n=kidd@183.Red-88-9-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- lujz` [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-20-92.dynamic.amis.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- Elench [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-18.zen.co.uk] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- gonzojive [n=red@128.12.64.230] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- proq` [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:23:51 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:26:32 -!- dwh [n=dwh@ppp118-208-241-91.lns10.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:28:13 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 05:28:13 Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 05:28:13 proq` [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 05:28:13 gonzojive [n=red@128.12.64.230] has joined #lisp 05:28:13 Elench [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-18.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:28:13 lujz` [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-20-92.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:13 kidd [n=kidd@183.Red-88-9-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:13 wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d817ca1.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 05:28:13 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-50-176-174.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 gko [n=Keca@116.59.130.8] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 jedahu [n=jdh@ip-118-90-52-64.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 faure [n=moe@CPE001217e40caa-CM0018c0c09832.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 vandemar [n=anon@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 alexbobp [n=alex@ppp-70-253-87-206.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 hdurer [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-680b263bdfae315a] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.107.70] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-207-110.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 sepisultrum [n=enigma@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 05:28:37 azuk` [i=azure@s2.org] has joined #lisp 05:31:32 Good morning. 05:31:53 slyrus_: Congratulations! 05:32:01 thanks beach 05:32:19 Morning.. 05:32:40 it's a relatively minor coding achievement, but it feels good to add more features to my neglected cl-bio project 05:33:02 hello tic 05:34:51 Time to hit work, with a wonderful day of support and, if I'm lucky, some C++ coding. "Yay," he said, with a slightly bitter tone in his voice. 05:37:27 Demosthenes [n=demo@66.235.80.184] has joined #lisp 05:37:36 tic, at least you don't have to fight the allegro garbage collector all the time :( 05:38:15 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@179.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:38:40 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:38:51 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 05:39:43 That sounds like active fun, compared to persuading customers to read the documentation... Heh. 05:39:46 *off* 05:39:52 at least you dont work for at&t 05:40:13 who decided to block img.4chan.org 05:40:18 this should be a fun day for them 05:42:50 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 05:53:30 dwh [n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:29 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@66.235.80.184] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:05:26 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:05:50 -!- hefner [n=hefner@c-69-140-128-97.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:06:10 hefner [n=hefner@c-69-140-128-97.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:02 serichse1 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-148-35.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:09:26 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 06:09:53 -!- nowhere_man [i=pierre@pthierry.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:10:01 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-31.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:10:09 -!- dwh [n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:10:11 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:13:21 dwh [n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:11 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-181-108.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:24:42 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #lisp 06:25:37 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 06:29:43 -!- TR2N [i=email@89.180.211.108] has left #lisp 06:32:38 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 06:34:43 fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has joined #lisp 06:36:51 -!- |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E43937.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 06:37:29 bytecolor [n=user@32.158.218.240] has joined #lisp 06:37:52 -!- bytecolor [n=user@32.158.218.240] has left #lisp 06:40:31 -!- krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-30-10.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:40:54 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:41:28 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:41:32 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 06:42:57 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 06:43:11 anybody worked with GIS data in lisp? 06:44:01 I would like to figure out what congressional district corresponds to a given GPS coordinate. There are various GIS files (e.g. in e00 format) provided by the government that I could use, but I don't know of a library 06:45:43 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:47:26 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-162-201.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:47:34 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:48:01 good morning 06:48:11 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:49:09 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit ["leaving"] 06:54:32 tessier__ [n=treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 06:58:20 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:59:12 clhs loop 06:59:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 07:02:24 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:06:57 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:07:56 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-200-80.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 07:08:27 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:37 does CL have something like select? 07:09:54 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:10:16 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:10:47 -!- elena [n=chatzill@dynamic-adsl-94-36-120-21.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:11:59 Ralith, not CL itself, but there are libraries that do. 07:16:05 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 07:16:32 asksol [n=ask@249.241.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 07:26:30 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-130-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:30:36 prg [n=prg@ns.alusht.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:03 ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 07:35:24 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [No route to host] 07:39:09 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 07:41:25 holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 07:41:33 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-42-138.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:43:46 fvw_ [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has joined #lisp 07:46:22 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:47:32 -!- philipp [n=philipp@65-45.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:53:08 -!- Adlai is now known as Adlai-AWAY 07:55:14 Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:56:49 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:00:09 EnglishGent [n=nobody@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:01:22 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:05:32 blandest [n=user@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 08:09:22 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:10:03 nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:10:54 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229236040.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:10:58 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [No route to host] 08:12:12 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:14:34 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 08:15:52 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 08:17:02 -!- fvw_ is now known as fvw 08:17:18 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 08:17:36 holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 08:20:18 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:26 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 08:24:07 -!- asksol [n=ask@249.241.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:25:31 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [] 08:31:13 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:31:39 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #lisp 08:33:18 schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:34:45 -!- schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has left #lisp 08:36:44 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-7f5729a70b4e4463] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:38:31 asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 08:40:03 splittist [n=dmurray@149-81.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:40:05 morning 08:41:44 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-698e416447847012] has joined #lisp 08:45:55 good morning 08:46:37 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:46:58 Ralith: what do you want "select" to operate upon? 08:47:15 serichse1: nothing in particular; I was only curious. 08:47:28 persumably, the set of all things from which input can originate. 08:47:28 Ralith: do you perhaps mean remove-if-not? 08:47:32 ...what? 08:47:43 that has nothing to do with select 08:47:59 man 3 select 08:48:03 that was my question :) 08:48:14 that manpage is my answer. 08:49:08 ok 08:49:12 -!- serichse1 is now known as serichsen 08:52:46 -!- Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:53:10 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-163-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:54:09 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d28dd.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 08:54:23 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 08:55:45 Yuuhi` [i=benni@p5483ADED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:46 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-198.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:59:58 -!- Guest57165 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:00:34 minion: tell Ralith about iolib 09:00:35 Ralith: direct your attention towards iolib: I/O(mainly networking) library containing: a BSD sockets library, a DNS resolver and an I/O multiplexer that supports select(2), epoll(4) and kqueue(2). http://www.cliki.net/iolib 09:00:35 tcr, memo from Adlai: heard that you have a SLIME hack for truncating repl output... is this so? could I have a copy please? thanks -Adlai 09:01:04 Adlai-AWAY: truncating repl output? 09:01:17 tcr: rather than wrapping, perhaps? 09:01:43 Don't have anything like that 09:02:57 -!- pizzledizzle [n=pizdets@pool-96-250-220-91.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 09:04:16 -!- blandest [n=user@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has left #lisp 09:05:55 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-110-139.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 09:07:23 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:07:47 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has quit ["leaving"] 09:08:02 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:08:13 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483B6B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:09:03 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-152.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 09:09:46 -!- jedahu [n=jdh@ip-118-90-52-64.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["bye"] 09:24:02 fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has joined #lisp 09:26:20 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:46 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:38:10 aliceinwire [n=aliceinw@host249-98-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:38:47 -!- aliceinwire [n=aliceinw@host249-98-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 09:40:10 -!- gko [n=Keca@116.59.130.8] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:40:38 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:40:52 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 09:41:04 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:33 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 09:44:26 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 09:45:29 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:45:35 -!- nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 09:46:05 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 09:53:57 fusss [i=73800b38@gateway/web/freenode/x-3d390669cafb552a] has joined #lisp 09:54:09 drewc: herep 09:55:09 i might have finally kludged a CL version of CakePHP's form-helper 09:56:13 (display-object (make-instance 'table-name)) does pretty much all you would expect it; creates a database record and generates the html input form, and javascript and lisp code to do the verification both on client and server 09:56:20 but it sucks 09:57:24 for some reason i can't seem to design a good API; it removes all the initargs it knows of from a wrapped defclass and generates per-class meta info at macroexpansion time (think of it as symbol table for a web form "compiler") 09:58:05 now that i know enough about web forms, session management, UI, usability and security. I think I am ready NOT to use my own stuff. 10:00:19 i just want enoug VB.net/PHP just to do the stupid forms, to be honest. it would be nice if the various CL web frameworks could agree on an http server; hunchentoot is our defacto, and lighty, nginx and apache can be used as a reverse proxy 10:00:47 i just don't get why every lisp framework is so tied to a specific webserve 10:01:08 fusss: maybe it's time to create equivalent of Ruby's Rack or Python's WSGI 10:01:09 ht-compat for UncommonWeb could be a win, imo 10:01:23 +1 for WSGI 10:02:04 Superciuk_ [n=chatzill@st-dellaved.statistica.unimib.it] has joined #lisp 10:02:12 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:02:29 it's not just webserver bias, also db backend 10:02:45 -!- Superciuk_ [n=chatzill@st-dellaved.statistica.unimib.it] has quit [Client Quit] 10:03:34 Superciuk_ [n=chatzill@st-dellaved.statistica.unimib.it] has joined #lisp 10:03:36 -!- Superciuk_ [n=chatzill@st-dellaved.statistica.unimib.it] has quit [Client Quit] 10:03:41 -!- Adlai-AWAY is now known as Adlai 10:04:30 db backend? 10:04:31 there is nothing wrong with being tied to a webserver 10:04:52 hm, tcr is offline. Oh well. 10:04:54 it hinders development 10:04:57 there are huge benefits to doing so if it is done right 10:05:01 no it doesn't 10:05:03 it hinders idiots 10:05:07 minion: help memo 10:05:07 To send a memo, say something like ``minion: memo for nick: the memo''. I'll remember the memo for any nick which is the same as the given nick, +/- differences in punctuation, and any nick which is an alias for it, and give it to them when they next speak. 10:05:10 which is a good thing (tm) 10:05:25 well, you never get to develop the framework above the server 10:05:28 p_l: postmodern here, cl-rdbms/prevalence there, etc. 10:05:35 that's what i've noticed... 10:05:39 *waaah! it doesn't run on zeus!* 10:06:04 holycow: please, stop 10:06:20 it's not like people are sitting on their hands demanding everything 10:06:21 -!- prg [n=prg@ns.alusht.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:06:21 minion: memo for tcr: Do you have any sort of hack for limiting the scrollback in the REPL? Anything would be appreciated, even if just to give me ideas to begin the painful process of writing myself some more elisp... -Adlai 10:06:22 Remembered. I'll tell tcr when he/she/it next speaks. 10:06:23 grow up, stop complaining and learn to use the tool for the purpose it is intended 10:06:34 prg_ [n=prg@ns.alusht.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:45 Superciuk [n=chatzill@st-dellaved.statistica.unimib.it] has joined #lisp 10:06:47 holycow: there is absolutely NO tool :-) 10:06:49 well, there are obvious plusses to Rack/WSGI approach 10:06:51 by grow up, you mean just roll your own? 10:06:58 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:07:09 no, just shut the fuck up and stop complaining like this is #php 10:07:16 awww 10:07:25 we are having a bad day 10:07:36 calling for more cooperation is complaining? haha 10:07:42 jao [n=jao@21.Red-83-43-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:56 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #lisp 10:08:19 one could try to find a common ground between all those servers. i'm guessing uncommon web already has something like that 10:08:40 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 10:09:10 dalton: jeff? 10:09:59 -!- Superciuk [n=chatzill@st-dellaved.statistica.unimib.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:09:59 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:47 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:15:18 -!- fusss [i=73800b38@gateway/web/freenode/x-3d390669cafb552a] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 10:15:48 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:16:43 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:18:16 schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:18:39 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:19:03 I love git and hate all other VCs with a passion, freely admitting that it's only because I have no experience with them and because I love git so much. That said, is there a git repo of CLISP avialable? 10:21:10 Adlai, http://git.boinkor.net/gitweb?p=clisp.git;a=summary? 10:21:21 -!- schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has left #lisp 10:21:40 Minus the ? at the end. 10:22:38 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-172-248.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 10:24:55 -!- vandemar [n=anon@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-152.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-698e416447847012] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- azuk` [i=azure@s2.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.107.70] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- hdurer [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-680b263bdfae315a] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- faure [n=moe@CPE001217e40caa-CM0018c0c09832.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- sepisultrum [n=enigma@hcl-club.lu] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-207-110.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@ppp-70-253-87-206.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@149-81.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-130-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d817ca1.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- gonzojive [n=red@128.12.64.230] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:24:55 -!- lujz` [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-20-92.dynamic.amis.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:25:04 -!- Elench [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-18.zen.co.uk] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:25:04 -!- proq` [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:25:04 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-50-176-174.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:25:04 -!- kidd [n=kidd@183.Red-88-9-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:25:04 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:25:04 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 10:25:08 wa! 10:25:32 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 10:25:32 splittist [n=dmurray@149-81.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 10:25:32 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-130-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:25:32 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-50-176-174.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:32 wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d817ca1.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 10:25:32 kidd [n=kidd@183.Red-88-9-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:32 lujz` [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-20-92.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:32 Elench [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-18.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:25:32 gonzojive [n=red@128.12.64.230] has joined #lisp 10:25:32 proq` [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 10:25:32 Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 10:25:32 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-152.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-698e416447847012] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 faure [n=moe@CPE001217e40caa-CM0018c0c09832.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 vandemar [n=anon@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 alexbobp [n=alex@ppp-70-253-87-206.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 hdurer [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-680b263bdfae315a] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 koning_robot [n=aap@88.159.107.70] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-207-110.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 sepisultrum [n=enigma@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 10:26:10 azuk` [i=azure@s2.org] has joined #lisp 10:26:49 dwh: that gets updated along with the official CVS? 10:27:00 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:27:45 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 10:28:22 Adlai, Obligatory related post: http://boinkor.net/archives/2006/11/clisp_git_repository_available.html 10:28:44 Given that it has recent commits, I imagine that it is. 10:30:05 dwh: very neat, thank you for indulging my gitdiction. 10:30:15 so climacs is a clim application? there is no command line interface? 10:30:58 holycow: I'm pretty sure CLIM provides for ncurses as well 10:31:20 Adlai: assuming there's a McCLIM backend for ncurses... which I somehow doubt 10:32:05 scratch what I just said, then... 10:32:50 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:54 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:34:24 Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:35:47 mvillene1ve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:36:41 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-79-16.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:42:41 there is no ncurses backend to McCLIM. There is an experimental TTY backend by Gilbert, but I doubt that climacs supports it in any meaningful way. Some assembly required, and I'm not sure it would be a SMOP. 10:43:10 -!- antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has left #lisp 10:43:13 antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:33 SMOP? 10:43:48 cracki [n=cracki@41-165.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:44:29 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:45:03 p_l: simple matter of programming 10:45:23 Hemlock, however, used to have terminal support (and still does in CMUCL, just not in portable hemlock). I'd like to revive it in portable hemlock, but haven't done so yet. 10:46:20 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-162-201.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:46:26 I'm not certain whether to keep the existing tty support or use curses instead. 10:46:32 funny i just found hemlock 10:46:40 googling sbcl and terminal support 10:47:21 The redisplay behaviour in tty hemlock is quite dumb -- on the one hand, there is virtually instantaneous redisplay when the entire buffer has changed. 10:47:39 nvteighen [n=nvteighe@165.Red-79-145-45.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:46 hi! 10:47:47 But when there are fewer changes (things have only moved a few lines) a slow scrolling effectoccurs. 10:47:52 Perhaps it's easy to optimize a little with a bit of hacking, but I don't understand it sufficiently to say. 10:48:26 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:45 quickie question: when using SBCL's save-lisp-and-die I've noticed that the generated image's size is different whether it was created by loading a .lisp or a .fasl 10:48:45 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 10:49:00 any idea on why is that? 10:49:10 curses might not be absurd to use. For most apps, the curses redisplay algorithm is an overly complicated hack. But for the emacs situation where you get arbitrary changes in a buffer and need to display them, curses does exactly what the app needs. 10:49:12 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:49:50 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 10:50:29 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 10:51:15 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:58 fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has joined #lisp 10:52:15 nvteighen: loading .lisp and .fasl is a different process 10:52:34 -!- dalton [n=user7994@187.34.46.192] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:52:42 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:53:07 dalton [n=user7994@187.34.46.192] has joined #lisp 10:53:12 stassats: ok, but what about the image's differences... isn't the .lisp internally compiled to a .fasl? Shouldn't the result be the same? 10:53:54 no matter what .lisp is internally compiled 10:54:00 to 10:54:03 npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 10:54:21 ok, so there's no guarrantee of the result being the same 10:54:39 yes, there is no 10:54:47 so, the obvious question is... what's the usual thing done when creating an image? 10:55:03 nvteighen: Compiling may result in more, or less debug information 10:55:04 tcr, memo from Adlai: Do you have any sort of hack for limiting the scrollback in the REPL? Anything would be appreciated, even if just to give me ideas to begin the painful process of writing myself some more elisp... -Adlai 10:55:36 tcr: depending on what directives/declares/etc. I use, I guess... 10:55:39 Adlai: Use C-c M-o 10:55:50 (btw, I'm coming from the Scheme world... :p) 10:56:26 angerman [n=angerman@a088.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 10:56:26 tcr: he needed an automatic truncating 10:56:36 nvteighen: If you load a .lisp file which was nor priorly compiled, the code will go through the interpreter. (yes, there are implementation which by default compile everything, but there's still a difference) 10:56:37 because it's some sort of log 10:56:54 ok 10:57:35 tcr: there's no way to automate that? 10:57:41 Adlai: Run the function behind C-c M-o within an idle timer 10:57:57 hmmmmm 10:58:09 Ideally, I'd like to keep the last say 300 lines in the REPL 10:58:29 is there a way to do that? or would it be easier to just log to files manually from my program? 10:58:45 That's probably better. 10:58:54 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has joined #lisp 10:59:28 ok. 10:59:30 There's everything there to create a stream which would go into a seperate Emacs buffer, it's just not bundled up and easy to use. 11:00:03 well, sticking it into a file would probably be better anyways. 11:00:38 something like #P"home:sykobot;last-message-trace.log" 11:03:55 -!- npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has left #lisp 11:04:20 -!- mvillene1ve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:05:39 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 11:05:47 100k downloads for the Haskell Platform installer. Could be incentive for making an updated Lisp-in-a-Box. 11:06:15 Hm... what I really don't get is the benefits of compiling into a .fasl 11:06:25 If you want an "executable", you can create an image 11:06:37 If you don't want it, using the .lisp is enough 11:06:46 or is there something I'm really missing? 11:06:52 you compile to fasl because you don't want compile twice 11:07:32 good point :p 11:07:47 Right, and you do want to feed your source files to the file compiler because it results in more optimization and compile-time diagnostics 11:08:23 LOAD and COMPILE-FILE+LOAD gives different results 11:08:25 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-42-138.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:09:22 stassats: different results wrt what, besides optimizations and compile-time checks? 11:09:40 clhs eval-when 11:09:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_eval_w.htm 11:09:49 okflo [n=user@91-115-85-121.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 11:10:22 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 11:10:36 I see, thanks 11:10:46 tic: lisp-in-a-box should definitely support CCL 11:10:59 azanar` [n=azanar@dsl231-050-107.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:03 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:15:42 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [] 11:16:23 aliceinwire [n=aliceinw@host249-98-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:20:31 -!- azanar [n=azanar@dsl231-050-107.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:22:50 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:23:37 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 11:25:14 -!- sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:25:16 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 11:31:09 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 11:32:03 stipet [n=user@ua.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:08 schoppenhauer_ [n=css@002608e1b5c3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 11:37:20 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-698e416447847012] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:38:38 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:47:54 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-32-194.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:31 jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-51-84.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:52:54 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 11:56:32 nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 11:57:05 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:00:00 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 12:00:19 c|mell [n=cmell@p9035-ipngn101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:00:28 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest24501 12:01:05 dumbdog [n=dumbdog@202.212.72.253] has joined #lisp 12:01:06 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:02:40 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 12:02:41 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-130-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:03:12 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:11 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-44-171.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:09:17 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [] 12:11:14 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-177-41.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:12:09 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:13:27 -!- nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:14:11 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:14:29 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:14:54 -!- stipet [n=user@ua.blixtvik.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:15:12 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 12:16:23 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-200.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:16:36 cods: when I make a :closed-polyline polygon in cl-paths, that should not be filled when I stroke the path, right? 12:16:48 it should be filled when you fill it 12:17:05 stroking a closed vs open changes how the join point joins 12:17:15 the docs state otherwise 12:17:33 there is path type :polygon (documented as closed and filled) and :closed-polyline (documented as just closed) 12:17:42 it should change how the stroke is done (but I've a poor memory.. I don't even remember how it works.) 12:17:52 so I was assuming that when I stroke a closed-polyline, it wouldn't be filled... but it is for me 12:18:24 do I have to close the polygon myself? that is, add the point of origin for the closed path types, too? 12:18:44 hm, strike that. I'm using make-rectangle-path 12:18:52 and it fills the thing no matter what 12:19:14 -!- Guest24501 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 12:19:17 you're using the :assume-type keyword when stroking? 12:19:34 I was, but it doesn't make any difference 12:19:47 my mistake 12:19:51 so I'm not using that anymore until I figure out what's wront 12:19:54 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:19:59 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-15-92.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:20:03 (-: 12:20:09 then, stroking should return 2 paths. You get only one? 12:20:36 waiiiit. 12:20:49 I seem to have completely missed what stroke-path is supposed to do 12:20:55 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:13 I thought that stroke should have side-effects 12:21:24 but now that you mention it, that mental model doesn't make sense at all 12:21:26 it does not :) 12:21:56 HAH 12:22:00 now it works (-: 12:22:02 thanks so much, cods (: 12:22:05 -!- nvteighen [n=nvteighe@165.Red-79-145-45.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 12:22:45 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:23:10 jan247 [n=jan247@222.127.86.98] has joined #lisp 12:25:37 for future generations of similarly confused cl-vectors users, I recommend saying "returns a path" instead of "produces a path" (: 12:25:54 philipp [n=philipp@154-123.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 12:30:06 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:32:16 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:33:30 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-56-101.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 12:33:57 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-56-101.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:18 angerman_ [n=angerman@e067.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 12:37:06 pkok [n=patrick@f102140.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 12:37:50 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:38:31 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:39:09 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:39:14 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:39:21 is there a way to make READ-LINE split on both LF and CRLF? 12:40:57 -!- cracki [n=cracki@41-165.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 12:41:27 -!- argible [n=argible@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:42:35 madnificent: it's implementation-dependent. IIRC, allegro and clisp do that 12:42:41 -!- gh7d395pi69wd [n=asdf@unaffiliated/gh7d395pi69wd] has quit ["( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )"] 12:43:00 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 12:43:39 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-30-10.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:04 jmbr [n=jmbr@150.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:46:28 fe[nl]ix: I'm on sbcl and the file seems to be parsed incorrectly 12:47:15 either that, or windows is screwing something else up. The lisp instance is running on linux, the file is coming from windows. 12:47:16 I suggest you just STRING-RIGHT-TRIM the CRs afterward 12:47:50 or tr -d '\015' < windows-file > unix-file 12:48:10 kpreid: ah right! I mixed up who used what. I can trim, that's nice 12:48:14 thanks for the help all 12:48:34 matimago: could do that too, I'd rather stay in the lisp image though 12:48:35 Any way to compile CLISP to install binaries and libraries and stuff in directories under /home/adlai, ie, /home/adlai/bin/clisp /home/adlai/lib/clisp/... without it polluting my ~ directory? 12:49:50 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:51:25 -!- angerman [n=angerman@a088.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:51:58 it was possible with SBCL, worked very nicely... any way with CLISP? I just spend 20 minutes cleaning up my ~ and in the end there isn't even a clisp binary in ~/bin 12:52:04 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-31.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:53:53 snearch [n=snearch@82.113.121.4] has joined #lisp 12:54:03 antifuchs: ok, doc updated. Thanks. (But I think that the whole doc looks funny for someone speaking english correctly.) 12:54:10 (-; 12:54:15 it's pretty readable 12:54:59 while there are some edges (as I just noticed (-:), it works, as a manual (: 12:55:43 *Adlai* defaults to the package manager... oh well. 12:56:06 -!- schoppenhauer_ [n=css@002608e1b5c3.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [] 12:57:32 Is there anything equivalent to classical type casting, apart from change-class (which deletes slot data if you up- and downcast)? 12:58:13 what is "classical type casting"? 12:58:36 pkok: you do realize that type "classical type casting" is a totally different concept, right? 12:58:42 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:58:44 Yeah :) 12:59:14 But that is the closest thing i could find 12:59:36 "classical type casting" is basically a way to lie to the C compiler. change-class is a way to really change an instance's class 13:00:09 so I guess you want to tell us what it is you are really trying to do 13:00:28 you can lie to the compiler with (safety 0) 13:00:30 That way, you could get another method to be applied 13:00:53 with all sorts of funny consequences 13:01:13 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:01:15 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 13:01:16 pkok: no can do. methods are dispatched dynamically, so change-class is your only option 13:01:17 Like having a method applicable on a list of arguments of type (foo bar) and (bar bar) with bar a subclass of foo 13:01:31 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 13:01:35 Aw :( thanks 13:01:55 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-152.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 13:02:10 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:28 but do not despair, there surely is a better way to get what you want, even though it'll require that you stop treating lisp as a C dialect with a funny syntax 13:02:35 morning 13:02:51 Yes, I'm sorry, still quite new 13:02:58 pkok: my intuition is that your problem could be solved by (a) some intricate MOP hackery; or, equivalently, and much more simply, (b) rethinking things as cmm says. 13:03:02 nothing to be sorry about :) 13:03:16 mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 13:03:26 More sorry for myself not having taken lisp up earlier 13:03:29 -!- Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:03:50 Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:03:51 pkok: it seems like a method specializing on the superclass does what you want automatically 13:04:05 But not all the time 13:04:50 I was just playing with this concept, haven't found the problem in the real world 13:05:48 one brute-force way would be to forgo CLOS methods and instead dispatch by hand to regular functions as required 13:06:48 I still don't see the case that wouldn't be handled by normal inheritance 13:06:52 or to add one more specializable argument, like clim does with the VIEW argument. 13:07:30 -!- aliceinwire [n=aliceinw@host249-98-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:09:14 perhaps the type specifier OR can help you 13:09:29 (no specializing methods on types) (: 13:09:59 -!- snearch [n=snearch@82.113.121.4] has left #lisp 13:10:14 -!- mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:10:19 mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 13:10:38 pkok, perhaps I'm just being obtuse, but, could you restate more clearly what exactly you want? 13:10:40 Using normal inheritance you do get the method applicable to the parent class's instances 13:11:18 nostoi [n=nostoi@100.Red-79-156-245.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:34 -!- okflo [n=user@91-115-85-121.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:11:50 -!- mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:12:14 But if there is a method overriding that behavior, in C-like languages you still can access that one method for once 13:12:39 antifuchs: oh right, scrap that 13:12:52 mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 13:13:08 i.e., you have class foo and bar, bar beign foo's subclass 13:13:12 -!- Adlai [n=user@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:13:57 you have a generic function fn with methods on (foo bar) and (bar bar) 13:14:31 Sometimes you'd like to use (fn bar bar) on bar objects, sometimes (fn foo bar) 13:14:37 How do you fix that? 13:14:58 pkok, at which point do you get to know what you want to call? 13:15:16 at function calling time 13:15:36 pkok, is that information deducible from the objects? 13:15:42 No 13:15:52 Jasko [n=tjasko@98.235.105.148] has joined #lisp 13:16:01 Then you just want different generic functions. 13:16:09 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@100.Red-79-156-245.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:16:17 Calling a common code path. 13:16:21 merimus [n=wroth@nat-49.laurelnetworks.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:32 What do you mean with code path? 13:16:33 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 13:18:19 pkok: a fancy name for "piece of code" 13:18:41 a regular function, for instance 13:18:56 Thanks 13:20:05 mdavid [n=mdavid@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:50 aliceinwire [n=aliceinw@host249-98-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:23:39 You shouldn't try to use class-based dispatch when you actually want to dispatch on something else. CL actually lets you to step a little away from this rule with EQL specializers, and Pascal Costanza's "filtered dispatch" lets you step away even further, but you should be more sure you know what you are doing. 13:24:20 http://kirov.dyndns.org/Test/CCL_Windows_Installation.html <-- If anyone's bored, this is a draft. A doc for the windows user. CCL, Emacs, Slime, clean XP/Vista machine, start to finish, written for an audience who doesn't know the unixy tools at all. Feedback welcome 13:25:36 -!- angerman_ [n=angerman@e067.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [] 13:25:45 Thanks guys, I'll look into Pascal Costanza's "filtered dispatch" too! 13:27:57 I wouldn't, for now 13:29:41 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:32:07 Modius: from a quick skim looks nice. Is it possible to redo the screenshots with the 'ugly' circles - the nice red ones are so much more pleasant (: Also, suggest you reverse the title to something like "Interactive Common Lisp Development on Windows with Clozure CL, Emacs and SLIME". 13:32:10 mathrick [n=mathrick@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 13:32:40 splittist: Yeah, I need to pretend english is my second language 13:33:06 okflo [n=user@91-115-87-6.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:34:18 you also need a 13:35:07 I wrote it in OpenOffice - how do I add that? 13:35:58 Adlai [n=user@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:36:33 um, open the html file in emacs? 13:37:08 Ah - I wondered what had autocorrected 'i.e.' to 'I.e.'... 13:39:16 -!- Adlai [n=user@unaffiliated/adlai] has left #lisp 13:40:31 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:41:40 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-30-10.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:42:17 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:18 HG` [n=wells@xdsler216.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:45:47 -!- dwh [n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:46:42 boyscared: What makes you think I know squat about emacs? I'm a windows user haha. 13:47:40 angerman [n=angerman@a048.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 13:47:49 frozsyn [n=FrozSyn@blm93-2-82-229-63-104.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:30 Modius, so open up Notepad. 13:48:38 Done haha 13:48:58 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 hey! is there a way to indicate that we intentionally don't use a variable in order to prevent warning in sbcl ? 13:49:24 is there a lisp binding to apple quartz? 13:49:34 -!- jao [n=jao@21.Red-83-43-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:50:04 Modius: what about Emacs-W32 package? 13:50:21 P_l: I don't know what that is. 13:50:35 p_l: Assuming it is an Emacs other than the one I pointed to in the guide 13:51:03 Modius: it has Emacs 23 with some patches for win32 13:51:15 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:51:16 p_l: link? 13:52:20 http://www.ourcomments.org/Emacs/EmacsW32.html 13:52:22 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-42-138.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:53:32 I had success running CCL/win64 with SLIME and said version of Emacs 13:54:48 frozsyn: (declare (ignore foo)) 13:55:08 michaelw, thanks a lot 13:55:51 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 13:56:18 frozsyn: this is standard CL, BTW. 13:56:25 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@149-81.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 13:57:03 michaelw, I saw so, i'm looking in hyperspec right now. I should have look the declare stuff 13:57:39 sorry for that 14:00:22 what is the correct idiom to defun two mutually recursive functions in sbcl without getting the warning about it (but still getting other warnings, and still getting this warning for other occurences) ? 14:01:03 I know this already answered here in my presence, but I can't find it in the logs. 14:01:04 place in same file, and use compile-file 14:01:04 (declaim (ftype (function (input-type...) result-type) forward-function) (defun using-function () (forward-function)) (defun forward-function () (using-function)) 14:01:18 instead of loading the source 14:01:45 jsnell: yes, but I seem to remeber there was a way to declare some kind of bloc 14:02:20 alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:02:37 if you insist on loading the source, or need to have the functions in different files, you can wrap a with-compilation-unit around the loads 14:03:03 jsnell: hmm.. ok. thanks jsnell and matimago. 14:03:31 kuwabara1: well you could use labels, but that's probably not what you want. (defun entry-point () (labels ((one (...) (two ...)) (two (...) (one ...))) (one ...))) 14:04:01 -!- Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:04:17 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:04:19 -!- okflo [n=user@91-115-87-6.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:05:29 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 14:08:02 -!- piso_ is now known as piso 14:10:22 willb [n=wibenton@compsci-wifi-39.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:10:54 segv [n=mb@p4FC1B4BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:27 Kirklander [n=Kirkland@216.93.247.56] has joined #lisp 14:13:49 qebab [i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 14:15:17 -!- mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:18:22 milanj [n=milan@93.87.169.228] has joined #lisp 14:21:02 Good afternoon. 14:21:04 Adlai` [n=user@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:21:51 hello beach 14:22:31 hello 14:22:37 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 14:24:17 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.179.15] has joined #lisp 14:24:32 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 14:25:34 salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has joined #lisp 14:25:43 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 14:27:57 -!- Adlai [n=user@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:30:33 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.112.5] has joined #lisp 14:30:49 Adlai [n=user@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:31:45 -!- dumbdog [n=dumbdog@202.212.72.253] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:35:28 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2FE3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:02 -!- merimus [n=wroth@nat-49.laurelnetworks.com] has quit [] 14:37:37 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:37:37 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:37:37 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:37:37 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:37:37 -!- EnglishGent [n=nobody@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:37:37 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:37:37 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host157.190-137-190.telecom.net.ar] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:37:37 -!- s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-168-234-251.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:37:37 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:37:37 -!- gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:37:37 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:37:44 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-152.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 14:37:56 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:38:44 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 14:38:45 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:39:00 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 14:39:32 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.139.124] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:39:46 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.139.124] has joined #lisp 14:40:36 -!- l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:42:28 hypno [n=hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:03 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:43:10 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:43:10 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:10 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 14:43:10 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 14:43:10 EnglishGent [n=nobody@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:43:10 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 14:43:10 Tordek [n=tordek@host157.190-137-190.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:43:10 s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-168-234-251.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:10 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:10 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:43:10 gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:13 is the author for "able" here? phil? 14:43:17 -!- lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit ["Backups are usually a good thing unless it's a sewer."] 14:43:18 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:25 HET3 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 14:43:35 lukjad007 [n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 14:43:44 mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068081123.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:14 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 14:44:14 -!- l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has quit [Client Quit] 14:44:47 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@170.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:44:51 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 14:49:01 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 14:49:02 davazp [n=user@79.153.148.56] has joined #lisp 14:49:51 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@170.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:51:36 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:52:55 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 14:53:02 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:54:02 -!- dialtone_ [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:55:23 hypno: don't think I've seen him here 14:56:19 ok. :( 14:56:33 -!- HET3 is now known as HET2 14:59:30 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:59:45 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2FE3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:00:14 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@150.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:00:38 -!- Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:01:28 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:17 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-42-138.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:02:35 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-12-46.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:02:55 Does anyone know a Common Lisp implementation of lambda lifting? 15:03:08 What be lambda lifting? 15:03:21 schmx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_lifting 15:04:21 hoh no idea 15:05:47 -!- jan247 [n=jan247@222.127.86.98] has quit [] 15:06:05 ... But... would you even use such a thing outside of a compiler implementation? 15:06:09 tomoyuki28jp: What are you looking for? A body of code that analyses CL sexps and performs lambda lifting? 15:06:21 -!- prg_ [n=prg@ns.alusht.net] has quit ["leaving"] 15:06:28 (Isn't that typically performed on an intermediate representation rather than a source representation?) 15:06:59 nyef: that certainly makes some bookkeeping simpler or optional. 15:07:25 Which does? Using IR or using source representation? 15:07:40 working on an appropriate IR. 15:07:59 FWIW, CL's native support for iteration means that lambda lifting isn't as essential to good performance. 15:09:53 Mmm... This is a trick for when your main iteration construct is recursion? 15:10:55 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:10:56 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:11:37 I created continuation based web application framework, and the continuations use lots of memory. I thought lambda lifting can reduce the memory usage of continuations. 15:13:15 Example: http://paste.lisp.org/display/84202 15:13:19 make sense? 15:13:26 schoppenhauer_ [n=css@002608e1b5c3.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:13:34 Right. Lets you transform references to the environment into references to arguments, which are hopefully handled more smartly than a-priori less transparent environment objects. 15:14:05 -!- schoppenhauer_ [n=css@002608e1b5c3.dfn.mwn.de] has left #lisp 15:14:18 tomoyuki28jp: that doesn't make any sense. The obvious way to rewrite your snippet is to remove the funcall/lambda. 15:14:46 tomoyuki28jp: Are you looking for a different way to store the "x"? 15:15:00 pkhuong: yeah, it's a bad example. let me rewrite it. wait a min plz. 15:15:33 lambda lifting only works on first-order programs. 15:15:50 -!- willb [n=wibenton@compsci-wifi-39.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:15:54 pkhuong: What do you mean by first-order programs? 15:16:12 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:16:42 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-75.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:16:55 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 15:17:52 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 15:18:06 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:18:13 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:19:14 -!- aliceinwire [n=aliceinw@host249-98-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:19:24 Isn't "lambda lifting" what the compiler does under the hood in these situations? I mean, it has to make some heap allocation for the variables if you're going to have indefinite extent for the lambda. 15:19:55 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-119.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:02 Modius: Might be. I am writing a test code to check it. Wait a min please. 15:20:05 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:20:33 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:20:43 Lambda lifting is where you convert free variables to bound variables by passing them as parameters. 15:20:44 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:01 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:15 Deciding to allocate cells with indefinite extent is a different issue. 15:22:14 i.e., lambda lifting is a way to get rid of closures. 15:22:43 Zhivago: That's what I am trying to do > get rid of closures 15:22:54 Zhivago: Do you know any CL implementation? 15:23:06 Sure, should be a zillion lambda lifters for CL. 15:24:22 -!- mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068081123.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:24:22 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:25:04 HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:25:20 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:25:50 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 15:26:21 mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068081123.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:34 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:45 willb [n=wibenton@compsci-wifi-39.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:30:26 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-170-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:31:06 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-170-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:31:11 I did the test. The result seems strange to me. http://paste.lisp.org/display/84271 15:32:18 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-75.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:32:36 I thought the second code uses less memory, but it uses more memory. uhm. why? 15:32:51 oh 15:33:44 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-170-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:35:56 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 15:37:41 kg4qxk [n=brainpo@66.170.231.4] has joined #lisp 15:40:55 -!- angerman [n=angerman@a048.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [] 15:42:10 -!- EnglishGent [n=nobody@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has quit [] 15:42:20 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-119.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:42:43 ravster [n=user@69.172.114.222] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 Hello all 15:43:48 Hello! 15:44:10 I have the code for an itty-bitty macro at http://paste.lisp.org/+1T0W . I'm able to get the code to expand well, except for a final glitch where I don't know how to have the expansion not be in the form of a list. Could someone help me with this please? 15:44:24 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 15:44:54 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:45:08 ravster: you can't. Generate a progn form. 15:45:44 Oh. 15:45:45 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 15:46:47 The progn should be in the macro definition, right? I'm still pretty green behind the ears with lisp. 15:47:00 right. 15:47:15 pkhuong: Okay. I'll look into that. Thanks. 15:47:27 -!- ivank [i=ivan@93-97-51-193.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 15:47:31 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 15:48:07 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 15:49:26 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 15:50:11 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1D88D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:54 Does anyone know any recommended lisp hosting server? 15:51:15 tech.coop, I guess. 15:52:16 pkhuong: thanks 15:52:21 pkhuong: Do you use it? 15:53:20 no. 15:53:53 drewc does though ;) 15:54:30 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:54:48 tomoyuki28jp: common-lisp.net. cliki and the alu wiki do... that good enough? 15:54:59 :D 15:55:27 drewc: Can I run my lisp program on common-lisp.net and cliki? 15:55:42 no 15:55:49 that's not quite how a hosting business works.... 15:55:52 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdsler216.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:57:05 So the way is either using hosting service like the one from tech.coop or rent a dedicated server? 15:57:41 (or rent a dedicated server _from the tech co-op_ you mean?) :) 15:57:51 haha 15:57:56 tomoyuki28jp: what other option could there be? 15:58:27 *p_l* stopped caring about other hosting than VPS or dedicated server 15:58:50 p_l: yeah, I usually recommend going with one of our VPS packages for lisp hosting. 15:58:53 drewc: I thought I can install SBCL on any dedicated server, correct? (I mean if I can get the root auth.) 15:59:08 HG` [n=wells@xdsler216.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:59:24 shared hosting seems to work only for simple CGI and PHP. 15:59:38 p_l: actually, many of our users are quite happy on shared hosting 15:59:39 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:58 drewc: with non-standard applications? :D 15:59:59 p_l: what we do it give you a port behind mod_proxy and another for slime 16:00:16 About http://paste.lisp.org/+1T0W , I'm unable to figure out where the 'progn' should go. 16:00:18 p_l: i don't understand... what is a stardard application? 16:00:22 drewc: well, you apparently don't run typical hosting :) 16:00:23 standard 16:00:36 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-4fe070d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:00:36 -!- peddie_ [n=matthew@67.169.49.37] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:00:36 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:00:37 -!- froydnj [n=froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:00:37 -!- srcerer_ [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:00:37 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:00:37 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:00:39 I get errors & style warnings. 16:00:43 p_l: no, we run lisp-friendly web hosting :) 16:00:58 Lucia [n=Lucia@148.Red-79-148-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:58 *p_l* is quite used to hosting services that think FTP, MySQL + Apache is all you need 16:01:01 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:01:05 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdsler216.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:01:38 ravster: how would you write it by hand, as a single (progn) form? 16:01:59 p_l: we don't even offer MySQL or FTP by default :) 16:02:02 HG` [n=wells@xdsler216.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:09 pkhuong: you mean if the 'count' were 1? 16:02:18 peddie [n=matthew@67.169.49.37] has joined #lisp 16:02:39 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdsler216.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:44 mikezor [n=mikael@c-4fe070d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:03:12 no, if the count were arbitrary. 16:03:28 tomoyuki28jp: your best bet is a VPS running Xen. We have those, with full support for SBCL. 16:04:02 tomoyuki28jp: if you have a simple application that doesn't use much memory, then shared hosting is an option as well. 16:04:16 drewc: I see. thanks for your advice. 16:04:34 drewc: Do you work for tech.coop? 16:04:51 tomoyuki28jp: i do, and i sit on the board as well. 16:04:54 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:05:38 spilman_ [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-17-7.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:05:39 drewc: oh, I see. I just saw your name on your website :) 16:06:45 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:07:01 tomoyuki28jp: a lot of the information on the website is out of date, so if you have any questions, please feel free to /join #tech.coop 16:07:21 drewc: I see. Thanks. 16:08:26 I gotta go now. Thanks for your help. Take to you later, guys. 16:08:41 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@98.235.105.148] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:09:40 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-12-46.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:11:26 pkhuong: I could try using a (map 'list #'car (stuff-that-i-get-from-the-loop)) & then splicing it into the main function, but I don't know how to do a splice outside of the macro. Wouldn't I get a "can't use comma without a backquote" error? 16:12:02 oh, wait. even if that worked it would remove the wrong sets of parens. 16:12:29 Don't think in terms of the surface syntax. You want to compute a single form that has multiple subforms. PROGN does that. 16:13:06 -!- whoppix [n=whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1324.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:13:08 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:14:12 pkhuong: but don't I already have that? A list of the things that I want? 16:14:59 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:15:28 ravster: if you want a list of things returned from a macro, the first item in that list had better be a symbol naming a macro or a function ;) 16:15:44 or (lambda ..) i suppose 16:16:37 ravster: much better to splice that list into a progn .. that will probably do what you want. 16:17:02 (PROGN now taking the place of the aformentioned symbol) 16:18:53 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d28dd.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:19:45 In the main program, I'll be doing a (max (a) (b) (c)), so I want the macro to return (a) (b) (c) instead of what its doing right now, which is ((a) (b) (c)). But if I do a progn on the ((a) (b) (c)), would the macro just return 'c'? And the macro wouldn't even be able to calculate that because it doesn't have the information to, right? 16:19:46 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:20:14 ravster: a macro can only return a single form. 16:20:21 oh, okay. 16:20:23 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [Success] 16:20:26 ravster: so... what does progn do? 16:20:45 clhs progn 16:21:00 minion: where are the bots? 16:21:05 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d28dd.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 16:21:10 returns the last subform, after evaluating all the others. 16:21:11 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:22:01 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-79-16.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:22:41 ravster: so... return a progn containing the forms you want evaluated.. non? 16:23:43 oh .. wait .. you have odd and non-sensical requirements there it seems... 16:24:03 ravster: what is it you are trying to do exactly, and why does it require a macro? 16:24:04 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-32-194.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:24:27 ravster: if there won't be too many arguments to MAX, you can either pass the operator to splice in to the macro, generate a form that returns multiple values (or a list of values), or simply not use macros. 16:25:05 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d28dd.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:25:43 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d28dd.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 16:25:51 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:26:30 yeah, I'm thinking of trying something like 'apply' so that the max function can work through each element of the returned list. The thing is that I don't know how many times I will need that pattern (how many arguments there will be to MAX) 16:26:59 ravster: why do you require a macro to return a list of arguments? 16:27:00 if you don't know, how can the macro? 16:27:28 (i can't read the paste ATM, lisppaste is re-loading) 16:27:39 pkhuong: that will be given by the COUNT argument to the macro (or whatever it may be). 16:28:05 allotrope [n=allotrop@websites.cs.byu.edu] has joined #lisp 16:28:12 -!- allotrope [n=allotrop@websites.cs.byu.edu] has left #lisp 16:28:48 TR2N [i=email@89-180-175-89.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 16:30:00 drewc: I'm trying to find the max or min of the last 'x' objects in a vector. 16:30:55 ravster: why would that call for a macro? 16:31:08 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 16:31:20 ravster: that does not require syntactic abstraction... a simple function will suffice. 16:31:40 (reduce #'max vector :start 5) 16:32:08 But aren't macros used when there is a repeating pattern in the code? 16:32:26 hmmm... I'll have to look up the reduce command 16:32:39 clhs reduce 16:32:44 *ravster* looks 16:32:46 no, that's thinking you should use then. 16:32:53 it's not a command, it's a function 16:33:12 ravster: no .. that's what functions are for 16:33:28 schoppenhaue1 [n=senjak@cip90.mathematik.uni-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 16:33:32 -!- schoppenhaue1 [n=senjak@cip90.mathematik.uni-muenchen.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:33:37 ravster: what book are you using to learn lisp? 16:33:37 drewc: oh. woops. :$ 16:34:31 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d28dd.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:35:26 I've read through pcl & am half-way through 'gentle intro' & beginning 'on lisp'. I just wanted to get my teeth into some code. 16:35:40 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:35:41 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d28dd.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 16:36:52 ravster: here's a simple rule about macro writing : "Don't". 16:37:27 ravster: do you know any other programming languages? 16:38:17 hehe, I'll keep that one in mind. Goodness knows I've been barking up the wrong tree here for long enough. :) 16:38:58 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:03 rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-35f16141d0773817] has joined #lisp 16:39:04 drewc: yup, some C 16:39:58 ravster: heh ... i was hoping for python or something so i could say 'do it like you do it there' ... but for C it's not quite good advice :D 16:40:14 lol, I can imagine. 16:40:27 Generally macros as a thin layer over functions works well. 16:40:33 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:39 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:50 e.g., making delayed evaluation implicit as in a with-foo macro. 16:41:24 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:41:27 Zhivago: indeed. DEF-FOO as a macro over ENSURE-FOO, WITH-FOO/FUNCALL-WITH-FOO, etc. 16:41:41 deafmacro [n=user@59.92.189.212] has joined #lisp 16:42:12 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d28dd.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:42:16 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.92.189.212] has left #lisp 16:42:35 minion: you back now? 16:42:35 what's up? 16:42:39 I got back into programming only in the last year, and was reading up on Python when I found out about lisp & decided to just jump in with both feet. 16:42:49 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d28dd.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 16:44:04 nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:44:12 ravster: some advice then : read all of PCL and Gentle, then read them again. Ignore Graham until half of his work looks silly and wrong, then read the other half. 16:45:26 -!- nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Client Quit] 16:45:29 reading PAIP at some point is a big eye-opener.. and SICP, though not lisp, is a big one too. 16:45:52 drewc: Alright, thanks. I'll put those on my list. 16:46:33 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:46:42 which one is by Graham? 16:47:06 On Lisp and ANSI Common Lisp are Graham's 16:47:24 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 16:48:35 drewc: ok 16:49:11 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:42 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 16:51:27 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o drewc 16:51:57 ravster: i would also really recommend CLOS by Keene. (perhaps you should take on that one after the others tho). it's excellent. 16:52:11 PCL and then CLOS. 16:52:35 Portable Common Loops? 16:52:52 well, heh, no, the books PCL and CLOS. 16:52:55 eh? Practical Common Lisp and then CLOS. 16:53:11 minion: Keene? 16:53:11 Keene: "Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp: A Programmer's Guide to CLOS" by Sonya E Keene. http://www.cliki.net/Keene 16:53:15 It's really hard not to get your hands on something while reading it :) 16:53:17 Keene is excellent, but lets call it Keene ya? PCL is bad enough :) 16:53:27 it's OOPiCL:aPGtC 16:55:36 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.112.5] has quit [] 16:56:59 i've said this before and i'll say it again : AMOP is one of the best books on programming ever written. There's even some Lisp content :P 16:57:14 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 16:57:33 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has quit [] 16:57:42 minion: AMOP 16:57:43 AMOP: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the sepcification of MOP at http://www.lisp.org/mop/ 16:58:05 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 16:58:40 i have the book (AMOP) but haven't read it yet. guess i'll put it higher on my to-read-list then. :) 17:00:55 hypno: IMO, one of the most important books on metaprogramming _ever_. 17:02:53 *Xach* is excited about tonight's meeting! 17:02:56 :DD 17:03:14 *Xach* hopes dto will give a lightning talk 17:04:03 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-51-84.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:04:07 Xach: hey, can i syndicate my new blog on planet lisp? is it you who i would tlak to about that? 17:04:18 Xach: i can't come to Boston tonight, i'm on pain meds that say no driving 17:04:22 drewc: remember that the examples and exercises of sicp have been translated into several languages. 17:04:24 Xach: tooth issue :( 17:05:08 pjb: excellent point... i should keep a URL for a CL translation handy for when it comes up :) 17:05:28 http://www.codepoetics.com/wiki/index.php?title=Topics:SICP_in_other_languages 17:05:35 I've got in minion, but I don't remember the key. 17:05:48 http://eli.thegreenplace.net/category/programming/lisp/sicp/ ; in CL. 17:06:56 dto: could you email me the url? i can't guarantee i'll add it, but i'll check it out 17:07:05 dto: email will help me remember to do that 17:07:17 dto: sorry to hear that. i'm taking the train. 17:08:10 saikat [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:07 Xach: where do you live? 17:09:13 Xach: i forget your email, can you /msg it to me 17:09:37 Xach: it might be too high-volume with too many pics to add. but maybe i could tag certain posts with just "lisp" 17:09:44 Xach: http://lispgamesdev.blogspot.com 17:09:47 xach@xach.com is me 17:09:53 i live in portland, maine 17:09:59 ah cool. 17:10:13 i'm going up to OOB in a few weeks, we should get a coffee ! 17:10:49 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 17:10:49 heh 17:10:58 Xach: sent 17:11:00 thanks 17:11:17 i've been trying to get an indie games or roguelike meeting going in boston 17:11:26 that stuff always happens in europe and i feel left out 17:11:45 europe has a size advantage 17:11:53 almost every city is within comfortable walking distance 17:11:59 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 17:12:16 haha 17:12:28 i think the train system is better 17:12:33 i've never been to europe tho. 17:12:42 hell, i've never been on a train for longer than 90 minutes. 17:13:21 the downeaster from portland to boston is pretty nice. portland microbrews in the cafe car. 17:13:24 i've never been to europe tho. 17:13:24 ERC> 17:13:31 oops, sorry 17:13:38 *nyef* has never been on a train for longer than... carry the one... fifteen hours or so. 17:14:00 dto: that's not false, there are villages every two or ten Km. 17:14:31 Xach: how long of a train ride is that? 17:14:37 (Actually, even that's a bit misleading, as there was a layover, even if I ended up getting back on the same train.) 17:14:45 about 2.5 hours 17:15:12 Wait, they have decent beer on that route? 17:15:41 yeah 17:16:11 shipyard isn't my favorite portland beer, but i like it 17:16:35 Xach: i wish i could do a lightning talk tonight, but i would really prefer to do a 15-minute or 30-minute thing 17:16:43 if i could split the show with someone else, in the future. 17:16:43 Mmm... Shipyard certainly isn't horrible. 17:16:57 until then, you can check out my youtube channel :) 17:18:11 fgtech [n=fgtech@host91-205-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:19:49 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host157.190-137-190.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:20:42 -!- fgtech [n=fgtech@host91-205-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:21:42 How does one poke jsnell? Is there a good time that you're likely to get at him? 17:22:26 Or an alternate way to get ahold of him? 17:23:16 minion: help memo 17:23:17 To send a memo, say something like ``minion: memo for nick: the memo''. I'll remember the memo for any nick which is the same as the given nick, +/- differences in punctuation, and any nick which is an alias for it, and give it to them when they next speak. 17:25:27 stassats: Jah, I guess I'll just send him an email. 17:25:54 -!- Adlai [n=user@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:27:48 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:29:48 -!- mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068081123.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:29:52 Adlai [n=user@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:30:12 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:33:25 elena [n=chatzill@dynamic-adsl-94-36-137-86.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:36:52 HG` [n=wells@xdslgx166.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:38:23 mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068081123.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:19 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslgx166.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:39:47 Right, I'm gone. I'll see some of you tonight, I expect. 17:40:04 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-222-164-136.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["Off towards Cambridge."] 17:40:15 dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:40:18 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:40:48 -!- asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:41:54 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:42:09 Tordek [n=tordek@host172.190-138-171.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:42:22 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:31 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-59-31.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:45:44 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-59-31.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:35 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 17:47:36 asksol [n=ask@91.208.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:49:50 nowhere_man [i=pierre@pthierry.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:30 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host249.190-137-252.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:50:42 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:12 -!- vandemar [n=anon@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:53:01 vandemar [i=rings@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has joined #lisp 17:53:46 angerman [n=angerman@host230.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:54:29 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 17:54:40 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 17:55:10 -!- ravster [n=user@69.172.114.222] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:55:58 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-130-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:01:30 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:02:41 -!- davazp [n=user@79.153.148.56] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:03:42 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:03:42 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host172.190-138-171.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:04:22 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:28 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-be65bb782d9fc6c7] has joined #lisp 18:08:30 hi, I've seen some programs using something like (deffoo ...) which they have defined somehow. is that most likely just a vanilla macro/function named deffoo? 18:08:52 probably a macro. 18:08:55 k 18:09:01 thanks 18:09:01 It would be bad style to call a function defsomething 18:09:05 ah 18:09:29 Some prefixes are "reserved" to macros. with-, def or define-, do-, etc... 18:09:57 gottcha 18:12:26 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:13:03 egn: try: (let ((result '())) (do-external-symbols (sym "CL") (when (and (< 3 (length (string sym))) (string= "DEF" sym :end2 3)) (push sym result))) result) 18:13:56 Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:31 pjb: trying to dechiper it 18:18:22 do-external-symbols scans the symbols of a package. When we have a symbol with a name longer than 3 characters, I check if the first three are "DEF", in which case I collect the symbol into the result. 18:18:30 The first thing I did when learning about symbol crawling was write wrappers that returned lists :P 18:18:37 It gives you a list of CL symbols whose name stats by DEF 18:18:52 ah 18:19:08 herbieB: of course, but for Q&D snippets, I cannot expect you to have my utility packages. 18:19:35 pjb: True, it was just looking at that that reminded my why I did that :P 18:22:17 HG` [n=wells@xdsleh094.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:22:55 -!- frozsyn [n=FrozSyn@blm93-2-82-229-63-104.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:24:45 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:28:20 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1FDE.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:30:35 htk_ [n=hilmi@85.110.251.217] has joined #lisp 18:30:51 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:31:15 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:31:59 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:32:22 billstclair [n=billstcl@dsl-67-158-165-20.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:01 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:40:42 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:41:31 serichse1 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-143-219.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:41:47 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-148-35.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:46:59 -!- serichse1 is now known as serichsen 18:48:10 -!- stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-172-248.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:48:38 -!- saikat [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:56:01 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 18:57:39 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:22 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:32 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:03 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-42-138.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:04:29 -!- dv_ [n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 19:07:24 -!- moocow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:09:01 -!- elena [n=chatzill@dynamic-adsl-94-36-137-86.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:11:40 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d28dd.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:15:41 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:28 morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d28dd.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 19:18:13 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.179.15] has quit ["Leaving..."] 19:19:30 elena [n=chatzill@dynamic-adsl-94-36-134-157.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:19:39 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:20:01 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-170-175.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 19:26:36 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-200-80.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:27:10 Xach: excited by something in particular for this night's meeting? 19:27:18 *dlowe* is still debating on whether or not to go. 19:29:47 dlowe: It'll be a Xach, nyef, and I think Hans convergence. That's pretty exciting. 19:31:52 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 19:32:14 can femlisp plot with gnuplot only? 19:34:48 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:35:35 leo2007: I don't know, but gnuplot is not too bad, is it? 19:36:24 serichsen: no, I don't have opendx installed and when I tried the demos, no plots were presented 19:36:32 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:35 Do you know how to set femlisp to use gnuplot only? 19:37:56 Guest96553 [n=ole@85.252.236.11] has joined #lisp 19:38:11 leo2007: I don't even know what opendx is :). However, the manual seems to state that both are needed. 19:38:31 -!- elena [n=chatzill@dynamic-adsl-94-36-134-157.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:38:36 that's my impression too 19:39:54 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-130-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:39:56 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 19:40:07 minion: lice? 19:40:08 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``lice''. 19:40:18 Anybody knows where lice's gone? 19:40:27 pjb: github 19:40:50 -!- HET2 [n=diman@w283.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:41:24 I mean the home page. www.emmett.ca/~sabetts is 404. 19:41:46 oh, sorry, not github, repo.or.cz 19:41:56 yes, I also noticed some time ago 19:42:03 http://repo.or.cz/w/lice.git 19:42:13 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 19:42:25 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:42:31 *dlowe* is starting to wish he hadn't written local-time :p 19:42:41 hehe :) 19:42:45 michaelw: thanks. But it's only the git repo. sabetts home page 19:42:48 is 404. 19:43:17 Error: Port git not found 19:43:29 Why so much hate? darcs was so nice. 19:44:10 I love both darcs and git, but I like git better 19:44:12 pjb: the git URL is (or ) 19:44:23 -!- zophy-cc [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:44:53 mjf [n=mjf@r2r102.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 19:45:24 -!- vandemar [i=rings@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:45:27 vandemar [i=syndicat@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has joined #lisp 19:45:49 And the authors of git think that it's better to provide a dmg for mac... 19:46:05 Can you not just build it? 19:46:28 Now where did they install it? 19:46:57 dunno. wherever macports installs it :P 19:47:40 jchicas [n=jchicas@139smtph3wg.tigo.com.sv] has joined #lisp 19:47:40 to build git you need to fetch sources from the git repository 19:47:46 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 19:47:59 noob question; how do I return a character from a function? 19:48:15 just like you return an integer 19:48:32 -!- jchicas [n=jchicas@139smtph3wg.tigo.com.sv] has quit [Client Quit] 19:48:37 or a string, or whatever 19:48:49 i.e #\a ? 19:49:06 yes, nothing special 19:49:55 what an interesting question 19:50:23 the age old upwards chararg problem? :) 19:50:23 schmx: no, the point is that there's no macport for git (well perhaps there's some new I would have to synchronize). So I downloaded the dmg, which is harder to install with the GUI than a CLI installers, and now it installs itself in the non-standard place /usr/local/git/bin. Anyways, at least I could clone lice. 19:50:24 the error must be somewhere else then, lisp is totally different from everything I ever programmed in 19:50:46 I swear next time I release some free software, I develop my own CVS to release it with! 19:50:55 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:01 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:51:07 pjb: you could start with Kaz's meta-cvs :) 19:51:11 <[df]> if you don't release the vcs, how will anyone use it? 19:51:23 pjb: there's been a git port forever, it's called git-core 19:51:33 pjb: you could try to use portage prefix 19:51:41 drewc: I'll make a "theory of concurent versions" 19:52:22 [df]: Yes I'll release the vcs. That's the point. Let's make one vcs for each project. 19:52:44 Guest96553: if you want to lisppaste the code, we could probably point out what you're doing wrong. 19:52:58 lisppaste: url? 19:52:58 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 19:53:00 <[df]> pjb: but then the vcs would be the next free software you released 19:53:08 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:19 [df]: perhaps it would be proprietary 19:53:35 <[df]> yeah, ok 19:53:39 [df]: good idea. I'll make a different vcs to release my own vcs. After all I cannot expect people to bootstrap a vcs! :-) 19:54:05 <[df]> I guess in fact you could release the vcs later, but no-one would be able to get the software until you did 19:55:08 Xach: thanks a bunch for your work on alpha blending in vecto. this has helped me a lot in getting it right (and I'm using most of your variable names and code structure anyway (-:) 19:55:48 pjb: Horray :D 19:56:05 antifuchs: probably my references are better resources...i hope i listed them sufficiently in the docs 19:56:41 Xach: ah, I found only the teamten one 19:57:03 but I looked in the source for refs, not the documentation. this means I should check that (: 19:57:07 *Xach* is enduring 10000ms ping timeson the train 19:58:26 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@mail.viantgroup.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:54 antifuchs: alvy ray smith was gold to me 19:59:14 so if you were swimming in a tank of water, you would have a pretty good approximation of what it would be to irc on the moon (: 19:59:15 syamajala [n=syamajal@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:03 is the moon wet too? 20:00:30 bah 20:01:13 *stassats`* still wasn't on the moon 20:03:02 kmels [n=kmels@97.160.216.201.static.intelnet.net.gt] has joined #lisp 20:03:19 Xach: bookmarked, looks excellent. this will take a while to digest. 20:03:21 thanks a lot 20:04:05 Xach: that's a lot of ms. what kind of connection? 20:04:21 I'm guessing something between 1 and 3Gs 20:05:06 *michaelw* idly wonders into which package an implementation of Naggum's "split-sequence on steroids" should go 20:05:31 kpreid: brand name is cradlepoint wipipe apparently 20:07:28 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-160-33-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:07:41 we shall call it Slowy McPunnypants Internet. 20:08:35 hi, got a small problem with sbcl and sb-thread 20:08:44 I'm trying to see how many threads I can create 20:09:02 I got stuck around 320 with the warning: WARNING: Starting a select without a timeout while interrupts are disabled. 20:09:03 *Xach* guesses afew hundred 20:09:06 galdor: not many 20:09:11 well, there's your problem 20:09:13 curse this lag 20:09:19 is there a reason for that ? 20:09:29 galdor: do you have 320 cores? 20:09:36 I mean I can easily create ten of thousand of threads in C 20:09:39 drewc: only 2 20:09:47 I juste create threads that sleep 20:09:51 galdor: why do you need so many threads then? 20:09:55 I should be able to create at least thousand 20:10:10 drewc: that's rather a bogus line of attack. 20:10:13 serving a thousand lazy cliens 20:10:15 clients 20:10:20 drewc: for a server, there are basically two ways, epoll/kqueue, or threads 20:10:36 sbcl has threads, not epoll 20:10:50 so I'm trying to see what I can do with before writing an epoll ffi :) 20:10:54 Xach: why? 20:10:55 galdor: iolib has epoll 20:10:56 *Xach* added epoll to sbcl with a few pages of code 20:11:43 michaelw: that threads should be prohibitively difficult to manage, and should be limited to only the number of cpus you have, is not an obvious reality 20:12:26 I can certainly understand the desire to pretend the abstractions threads offer make them suitable for a bunch of things they aren't actually suitable for on sbcl in practice. 20:12:39 iolib is an external library, for something as important as IO in a server, I'd like something integrated to sbcl, or something I coded myself 20:12:41 Xach: i was trying to work towards suggesting epoll/select etc rather than protect SBCL 20:12:43 Xach: it is if you subscribe to the fact that threads can be used for two purposes: for structuring (which appears to be galdor's intent) and efficiency 20:12:47 like: creating thoursands of them 20:13:19 Xach: having epoll in sbcl would be cool, is there a plan to have it integrated to the official tree ? 20:13:25 s/fact/notion/ 20:13:41 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 20:13:49 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 20:13:55 galdor: i don't know. what i wrote wasn't generic for streams. it was a lower-level octet source/sink thingy. 20:14:04 bah 20:14:04 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 20:14:39 galdor: there's no reason to reject iolib on those grounds. whatever you write will be worse, and i don't think it will be in sbcl any time soon. 20:14:44 galdor: what's wrong with FFI to epoll... the entire point of libraries is so that the implementation need not have every feature built in! :) 20:14:58 michaelw: two purposes at the same time? 20:15:14 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:26 why worse ? 20:15:34 Xach: mixing them into one is not such a hot plan, IME 20:16:31 I'm ok about using an epoll ffi, but using threads can be really useful if and only if they are well supported by sbcl 20:16:53 galdor: just guessing, but if your main goal is something else, what you write will probably cover the subset of things you directly and immediately need. 20:16:56 meaning I can easily spawn a couple thousand of them without trashing the GC or the IO system, which seems to be the case 20:18:40 galdor: threads aren't that cheap in sbcl. they're useful and stable but not plentiful 20:18:58 does having a thread using a lot of foreign calls (epoll) a problem with the GC when there are several threads ? 20:19:06 galdor: there's quite some literature on structuring servers, and most appear to recommend something else than "thousands of threads" 20:19:56 michaelw: I'm just thinking about alternatives :) 20:20:17 erlang and haskell with green threads are very usable with hundred of thousand of threads 20:20:17 *Xach* gives up due to latency: see some of you tonight at the lisp meeting! 20:21:24 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:21:45 galdor: CMUCL has green threads. note that green threads/co-routines are significantly lighter-weight than OS threads, so you're comparing apples and oranges really. 20:21:50 galdor: except that's apples and oranges. sbcl does not have green threads (they are what I called "threads for structuring") 20:21:52 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:21:55 galdor: Maybe you should use LFE. 20:21:59 heh 20:22:06 galdor, iolib handles 20 000 concurrent clients hammering it with no problem .. it's pretty nice 20:22:08 in some system, using FFIs locks all threads 20:22:24 lnostdal: yep with epoll 20:22:37 galdor, (i didn't test with more than 20k .. no point .. heh .. ) .. yes, epoll 20:22:45 if FFIs don't lock all threads and if the GC plays nice with them, I use epoll/kqueue 20:23:49 schmx: seems nice 20:24:04 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:36 but the point is to use lisp for the whole server 20:25:15 galdor: It will, sadly, take a long time before any lisp beats erlang at its own game (: 20:25:26 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:27:09 schmx: there's termite scheme. but again, another thing in entirety :/ 20:27:14 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdsleh094.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:27:26 guaqua: there are many attempts 20:27:26 *schmx* googles termite scheme. 20:27:28 schmx: there's always the option to connect to erlang via its FFI 20:27:34 what do you mean, galdor ? .. erlang uses epoll (i.e., system calls) for i/o also .. if that's what you mean 20:27:41 michaelw: Indeed. :) 20:27:46 I'm going to hack some code with cffi/epoll, I will inform you if I get something I like 20:28:02 galdor: use iolib... someone has done the work for you 20:28:22 drewc: NIH, not worth arguing 20:28:41 why CFFI and not sbcl ffi then? 20:28:44 schmx: here's a partial list: 20:29:05 michaelw: I'm just a bit amused by the whole comparing sbcl threads to erlangs 1500 byte "threads" (: I'd just .. use erlang if I wanted tens of thousands of threads.. or think of some other way if I was hellbent of CL. 20:29:36 don't take it wrong, but iolib isn't really widely used, so it means I'd have to read the code to be sure; now I can also write a small wrapper in a few hours, and I'd be sure 20:30:01 schmx: there's always the option to connect to erlang via its "port" system. best of both worlds: let erlang handle the plumbing, and lisp the computation 20:30:06 I write epoll-based servers for my job, so I know what I want 20:30:13 galdor: iolib is a lot more widely used than anything you can hack up in a few hours.... so that makes no sense. if it's NIH just say so, but don't fool yourself. 20:30:13 michaelw: Sounds a good plan too :) 20:30:14 lisp isn't widely used, galdor .. but ok .. :) 20:30:41 and I use cffi because it means I'm not tied to a common lisp implementation 20:30:44 pjb pasted "schema for LiCE vs. GNU emacs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/84285 20:30:59 lnostdal: yeah and it's really bugging me 20:31:14 galdor: CFFI to epoll ties you to linux... iolib is portable (can use select/epoll/whatever) 20:31:25 -!- htk_ [n=hilmi@85.110.251.217] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:31:27 but, i don't care anymore, so go nuts :) 20:31:27 pjb: lice does elisp, eh? 20:31:30 drewc: did you write iolib ? :) 20:31:36 galdor: no 20:31:43 schmx: Yes, it implements the C part of emacs. 20:31:56 schmx: so you can run emacs lisp code on lice. 20:32:02 pjb: That's quite convenient. 20:32:15 It looks promizing, yes. 20:32:19 It's what mcclim be needin'. An emacs mode so we can run the gnus. 20:32:29 mcemacs 20:33:04 i tried LiCE years ago when it first ran on movitz. very cool :) 20:33:26 schmx: shoe-horning applications like GNUS into an editor is not the smartest thing to copy 20:33:37 michaelw: When did mcclim become an editor? 20:33:51 However, 1) there are some abstractions that are not too easy to use in GNU emacs; 2) there's a lot of emacs lisp code that is not pretty. So I'd still prefer an incompatible rewrite... 20:34:05 schmx: since climacs :-) 20:34:06 pjb: like, say, climacs? 20:34:13 schmx: there you go :) 20:34:14 :D 20:34:17 pjb: climacs != mcclim though. 20:34:43 I'm not saying mix it up with climacs. I'm saying I want to run my elisp on mcclim. 20:34:48 drewc: indeed, like climacs. Now I need to make mcclim run here. 20:34:57 schmx: I was actually referring to your "mcemacs", though 20:35:19 climacs + clim listener + clouseau + clim debugger is actually quite usable. 20:35:25 michaelw: Yes. Dunno what else I would name an elisp-player for mcclim. :) 20:35:46 pjb: are you going to port lice to mcclim? 20:36:10 there is another elisp->cl translator around somewhere... 20:36:18 and there is one for scheme as well 20:36:22 michaelw: ENOTIME 20:36:23 several, even 20:36:34 pjb: too bad 20:36:44 drewc: there's some elisp -> scheme compiler. 20:36:53 SELC 20:37:20 and another one whose name escapes me ATM 20:37:25 i read a paper on it the other day .. for mit scheme's editor IIRC 20:37:40 for edwin? 20:39:28 stassats`: yeah : www-pu.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/users/knauel/selc-ifl.pdf 20:39:55 -!- kg4qxk [n=brainpo@66.170.231.4] has left #lisp 20:39:59 Naggum's split-sequence design: , if anyone is interested. 20:41:20 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 20:48:55 drewc: ingvar wrote an elisp->cl bridge for hemlock; it's in the portable-hemlock repo, AFAIK 20:49:39 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:49:54 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 20:51:53 -!- alexsuraci [n=alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:52:26 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:31 alexsuraci [n=alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:58 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@mail.viantgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:57:27 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:57:42 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:49 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:57:57 http://common-lisp.net/project/lisp-on-lines/repo/lisp-on-lines/doc/manual.html OMG! (unfinished, but a start and a long time coming. thank org-mode) 20:58:05 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:58:19 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:58:57 org-mode is awesomeness 20:59:21 -!- asksol [n=ask@91.208.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:59:26 What be so neat about org-mode? 20:59:50 schmx: well, i never met an application that so dramatically altered the way i work. 21:00:12 *drewc* does everything in org-mode now. 21:00:16 Hmm.. I have tried using it at some times. I never seem to "get it". 21:00:47 I'd like to get it. People seem obsessed with it. 21:01:18 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:01:30 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:01:42 schmx: have you read this page? http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html 21:01:51 schmx: that's the one that helped me 'get it' 21:01:54 schmx: it's just a quick, handy tool 21:02:06 mi gosh. 21:02:14 drewc: Never seen that one. Thanks. 21:02:36 madnificent: Yes. and from what I understand it replaces a whole bunch of sh scripts. 21:02:54 *drewc* is using org-mode for literate programming in CL :) 21:03:02 schmx: for a great part, I find it to -just work- 21:03:04 drewc: this one looks very informative. 21:03:17 drewc: you mangle org and lisp code? 21:03:49 madnificent: i have a cl-org-mode parser that tangles org-nodes to source files. 21:04:16 drewc: *you* have it, or is it published? 21:05:01 -!- Adlai is now known as Adlai-AWAY 21:05:04 i have it... i plan on publishing it as soon as it's 'self hosting'... then comes round-trips from source files to org-mode 21:05:06 drewc: I'm going to give this a readthrough tomorrie and have a whack at it again. Thanks. 21:05:26 schmx: no problemo, i have a lot of time to help now that i'm so organized :P 21:05:39 drewc: you'll put it on cliki then? 21:05:40 ehehehe. 21:05:53 madnificent: you bet. 21:06:01 *schmx* is on the GTD system, so pretends to be organized. 21:06:03 great :D 21:06:34 the only thing I miss from org-mode is the synchronization with trackers like redmine and trac 21:07:00 -!- alexsuraci [n=alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:07:03 I recently wrote some LaTeX classes in documented TeX style 21:07:06 it was quite refreshing 21:08:45 I think the problem with org-mode is that one has to fire emacs up all the time. 21:08:59 haha 21:09:04 good joke 21:09:19 I guess one could run it on some workspace one does not look at, and hook up some script using gnuclient to use it all. 21:09:20 *guaqua* most appreciates the mind sweep 21:09:22 hrrm. 21:09:26 schmx: emacsclient? 21:09:34 oh emacsclient maybe it is called. 21:09:36 i lack the self-control to be that organised 21:09:57 schmx: you don't have an emacs open all the time? 21:10:04 not really. 21:10:07 schmx: how different! 21:10:12 and mostly it is off on some workspace I don't visit. 21:10:19 just for lisping really. 21:10:23 *drewc* has two windows open, emacs and firefox. c'est tout. 21:10:25 to be honest, I do have one emacs open all the time, but it's for mail and org 21:10:54 So I guess it'd be nice if I could make a lil popup window for filling stuff in and have that fed to emacs without having to jump over to the emacs workspace. 21:10:54 schmx: emacsclient can open a new window, that solves it (M-x start-server to start it in the running instance emacsclient to edit a file) 21:10:59 mail/org/slime/erc/eshell and that covers pretty much all i do. 21:10:59 *stassats`* has two emacses 21:11:02 one for gnus 21:11:22 shelisp looked cool (but didn't seem to run decently on sbcl) 21:11:28 madnificent: Yes ok. That's not quite what I want me thinks. 21:11:33 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:12:02 alexsuraci [n=alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:07 emacsclient rules... i have a javascript bookmarklet that creates bookmarks for me from firefox -> org-mode 21:12:21 How does one keep all these org files on different machines in sync? is there some thing for it? 21:12:26 schmx: git 21:12:33 oh that could work. 21:12:35 schmx: what do you want then? 21:12:37 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:12:50 *guaqua* uses unison 21:13:10 madnificent: I want like xmonad prompt to pop up to ask me for what to have go into the whole TODO machinery and have that add it to the right place. 21:13:43 (or random other prompt. it's all the same) 21:13:44 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 21:14:09 schmx: that should be pretty simple to do. 21:14:15 Probably :) 21:14:34 schmx: emacsclient can pop up a new window within a second, that is -sort of- a menu :) Not really what you'd want though 21:14:43 Dunno how I'd do the extraction of data to get it to pop up. But I guess I could write it in elisp and have emacs fire up zenity or what heck. 21:14:44 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229236040.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 21:14:54 drewc: forgive me for asking: how do you handle org files on different machines in sync in more detail? I have at least two machines on which I would typically be editing these files 21:15:11 madnificent: Well can't I just ask me emacs to eval some elisp w/o the window poppin' up? 21:16:31 schmx: probably, I don't know much more... 21:16:31 drewc: I'm seeing a lot of possible use for MAO in CLIM :) 21:16:42 MAO? 21:16:48 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:49 Krystof: unison 21:16:58 madnificent: Well there must be some way. (: 21:17:03 p_l: i keep hearing that today actually :) 21:17:30 schmx: Meta-Attributed Objects. Part of drewc's (in)famous LOL/MAO/ROFL/etc. stack :P 21:17:32 Krystof: i typially only edit from one machine at a time, so my setup is quite simple 21:17:39 heh 21:17:52 schmx: i posted a URL to the manual not too long ago. 21:17:53 *p_l* waits for WTF package 21:18:11 p_l: it's not released, but it's my "Working Text Framework" 21:18:18 s/text/test 21:18:21 STFU? 21:18:32 Krystof: rsync or dropbox 21:19:07 is there one for GTFO? 21:20:00 Grand Text Framework, Overdesigned 21:20:19 -!- alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:22:57 danlei`` [n=user@pD9E2D285.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:09 -!- ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:23:28 drewc: I only edit from one machine at a time too, I think; the problem is that I sometimes edit when another of my machines is not accessible, so I can't sync ("git pull" or whatever) 21:23:42 maybe my use case is just too weird 21:24:00 Krystof: i just go ahead and edit.. git usually handles the merges without too much trouble. 21:24:59 Krystof: sometimes it needs some help though... i find if i clock in on two machines sometimes git doesn't pick up both clock lines... it thinks one is to replace the other. 21:25:27 i recommend unison. it's not versioned but it works 21:25:53 I just read the documentation, and it doesn't seem that it works, for the same reason that drewc describes: it involves thought for merges 21:26:09 most of the time it just works 21:26:18 you run unison before and after you do anything 21:26:34 and what happens if the other machine isn't accessible at that point? 21:26:35 it also asks you before it copies stuff 21:26:50 well you simply don't update at that point, hence before and after 21:27:22 Krystof: dropbox should work well for your use case 21:27:44 but beware, it's not free software 21:27:55 I think I haven't communicated my issue properly. The issue is not the tools; I'm relatively familiar with these things. The issue is wanting to avoid thinking about it, and having the confidence that I can afford not to think about it 21:28:11 asking me to read a diff about my diary before I can see what's in my diary is a bad plan 21:28:36 well, i use unison for syncing. and it does exactly that 21:30:24 the other issue is that I can see, in my current workflow, that if I did this kind of thing there _would_ be conflicts, and hence I would have to think 21:30:33 drewc's observation corroborates that 21:30:59 Krystof: so you basically have no access from one device to the other at some points? 21:31:05 so... I'm OK with the answer that my flow isn't catered for. 21:31:23 i mean, that's what you are trying to say if you keep saying unison wouldn't work 21:31:36 yes, that is what I'm trying to say 21:31:49 Krystof: what are you using org-more for? 21:31:52 (in this case, it's also what I explicitly said: "the problem is that I sometimes edit when another of my machines is not accessible") 21:31:59 -!- alexsuraci [n=alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:32:00 michaelw: keeping track of what I'm meant to be doing 21:32:29 alexsuraci [n=alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:30 Krystof: that you can handle with unison as long as you sync the one offline before turning it offline 21:32:32 Krystof: anything besides scheduled "appointments" and todos? 21:32:37 making myself feel guilty about not doing things, that kind of thing. (A kind of vague GTD thing without the clocking) 21:32:41 michaelw: note taking 21:32:45 guaqua: you sound like a broken record 21:32:55 oh i'm sorry 21:32:58 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 21:33:05 I'm pondering whether taking notes in a machine-specific file would be good enough 21:33:24 I'm worried that I would reschedule aggressively on a disconnected machine, and then swear when I realised that I'd already done some of that 21:33:24 arg 21:33:37 maybe I need to try it and see how annoyed I get 21:33:43 Krystof: ah well, sans note-taking, caldav (and a capable calendaring app) works for me 21:33:46 i didn't know boston lisp is at 6 21:34:30 anyway, I've learnt about dropbox, which I think is a hideous idea, and unison which looks interesting even if it doesn't solve this problem for me 21:34:38 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:44 so it's not all loss. I'll let you get back to lisp. (drewc, do you know about pbook.el?) 21:35:06 It'd be neat to have an emacs hook that would try to sync the file on open/close. 21:35:41 ahaas: sounds a lot like TRAMP mode 21:35:47 Krystof: i use qbook.lisp actually, which is the same thing only written in CL. 21:36:19 michaelw: Well, tramp only works when you are connected. 21:36:42 Krystof: you've given me an idea for an application that properly syncs org-mode files... i just might be able to come up with something that works. 21:36:57 *drewc* is having way too much fun with his org-mode parser 21:37:35 I use org-mode for my TODO file, too, and generally use tramp to connect to it on a centralized server. 21:38:29 *madnificent* always found tramp to be too slow 21:38:53 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:39:13 michaelw: You are right, though. That is similar. I forgot that tramp only does anything when you open and save. 21:40:07 -!- danlei` [n=user@pD9E2FE3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:40:18 araujo: Looks like sbcl-1.0.30 has been bumped in the Lisp overlay without actually testing whether it actually works. The 1.0.29.1-fix-fill patch doesn't apply. Are you in power to have a look at that? 21:41:50 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:11 araujo: No, actually the whole ebuild is just unusable (even with the patch commented out). 21:44:49 sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:46:28 -!- pkok [n=patrick@f102140.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:46:51 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:48:00 antoszka: please update the repository, delete the tarball, then try again 21:49:28 -!- Adlai-AWAY is now known as Adlai 21:50:53 fe[nl]ix: I don't think anything is wrong with the tarball (hashsums are OK). 21:51:02 fe[nl]ix: It's the ebuild. 21:52:51 antoszka: the tarball was incorrectly created, I uploaded a new one 21:53:22 fe[nl]ix: thx 21:53:48 fe[nl]ix: Do you work for the Lisp overlay as well? 21:54:08 I maintain the CL part of the overlay 21:55:24 Good to know. 21:55:45 And what part is araujo looking after? 21:56:16 tweakNO [n=ole@85.252.236.11] has joined #lisp 21:57:34 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1D88D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:59:00 -!- kmels [n=kmels@97.160.216.201.static.intelnet.net.gt] has quit [] 21:59:03 *drewc* hugs slime 21:59:05 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:59:26 C-u C-c C-c on stack frame .. FTW! 22:00:02 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:00:05 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:16 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 22:01:24 -!- mdavid [n=mdavid@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:02:14 I don't know how old your checkout is, but on recent ones, restartable frames are shown in a greenish color 22:03:14 comes in handy with C-u C-c C-c 22:03:14 doesn't tthat work in a bunch of other contexts too? 22:03:52 Yes, in Xref buffers, including C-c C-k to recompile the output of who-macroexpands 22:05:16 pizzledizzle [n=pizdets@pool-96-250-220-91.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:04 -!- Guest96553 [n=ole@85.252.236.11] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:09:17 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:11:55 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:12:18 Samy [n=sbahra@c-68-50-176-174.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:59 -!- dalton [n=user7994@187.34.46.192] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:13:01 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-42-138.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:15:05 -!- morphling [n=stefan@gssn-590d28dd.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:15:39 -!- tweakNO [n=ole@85.252.236.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:16:28 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:16:53 odd. is (loop for (x y) on #(1 2 3) do (print x)) supposed to not error? 22:17:10 I would have hoped for a type error or something 22:17:58 [sbahra] [n=sbahra@c-68-50-176-174.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:55 antifuchs: is ON specified to do anything with vectors? like coerce them to a list perhaps ? :) 22:19:46 drewc: in that case, I'm doubly surprised at the lack of output (: 22:22:13 antifuchs: i'm surprised it doesn't blow up really ... desctructuring a vector in an on clause seems like it should do real damage somewhere :) 22:22:43 yeah - that's in both acl and sbcl 22:22:50 interesting. sbcl, ccl and allegro all return nil 22:22:51 so I'm starting to believe this is intentional 22:23:01 which makes me lose all faith in the loop spec (: 22:23:18 you had faith in the loop spec? :) 22:23:24 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:23:26 always! 22:23:32 -!- dalkvist [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:23:32 -!- angerman [n=angerman@host230.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [] 22:23:34 With both sbcl and clisp, the loop finish condition is testing #(1 2 3) with atom, which returns true. 22:23:42 so the loop does 0 iterations 22:23:48 Yes, loop on 'x "works" too, but not on a dotted-list. Strange. 22:23:52 Guest497`: oh ... good point 22:23:59 that's in the spec actually 22:24:19 "In the for-as-on-list subclause, the for or as construct iterates over a list. It checks for the end of the list as if by using atom." 22:24:33 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:24:45 ah, cool 22:24:53 still... unexpected and weird (: 22:25:10 -!- spilman_ [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-17-7.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 22:25:13 indeed... but at least specified :) 22:27:06 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-68-50-176-174.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:28:20 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 22:28:21 I bet there's some corner case of loop that's specified to summon a T-800 when hit 22:31:46 -!- Samy [n=sbahra@c-68-50-176-174.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 22:32:49 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 22:38:30 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.169.228] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:39:42 is there something like apply' but which uses only the amount of arguments that it can use, on the given function? 22:39:58 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r2r102.net.upc.cz] has quit [""GNU is (indeed) NO UNIX! Save UNIX!""] 22:40:42 I see the problem with org-mode. 22:40:52 *schmx* will try it out again though. 22:41:01 schmx: the problem? 22:41:16 madnificent: why do you need it? 22:41:30 Yup. I have never gotten around to finding it very useful, or much enjoying it. But I'll give it ago here with having read this link. 22:41:46 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:41:57 madnificent: you could apply the argument list - 1 element until you don't get PROGRAM-ERRORs anymore (: 22:42:00 madnificent: Well not THE problem, more my specific problem (: 22:42:39 (disclaimer: I think this would be a bad idea) 22:43:00 stassats`: I have this thing called flow. The user can specify funcions on each part of the flow. However, if he isn't interested in a variable he can drop that argument. I'm looking for a way to make it not crash when the user has specified too little arguments 22:43:38 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:43:50 antifuchs: it would be evil, to say the least... but it could work... I can make a lambda without a body and see when it stops being angry... does feel really really naughty though 22:44:10 schmx: being :D 22:44:12 madnificent: why not just crash? 22:44:30 stassats`: because I *want* it not to crash 22:44:36 I've been spoiled by implementations that included ASDF, but I just got a puzzling error after trying to #'asdf:oos on CLISP. How do I install asdf? 22:44:52 madnificent: note that the idea itself is flawed 22:45:02 well, if i was a user i'd prefer it to crash 22:45:09 stassats`: but you aren't 22:45:16 so that is not the point :0 22:45:17 perhaps with some meaningful restart 22:45:19 even if the function you APPLY is happy with the argument list, any function that it calls may not be 22:45:21 :) 22:45:25 madnificent: luckily! 22:45:28 madnificent: I can't really access the information when I'm wonking with no computer around, and then I'd... guess I'd have to make a shitload of notes and feed into it. It all feels like double work to use it for organizing and keepin' track of everything. 22:45:42 schmx: point taken 22:45:51 Adlai: you download asdf.lisp then cl:load it. 22:46:01 better to redesign your functions with &key ... &allow-other-keys &rest list argument lists 22:46:01 schmx: in fact, that is the one reason for me to consider getting a pda or smartphone 22:46:12 madnificent: So I see no great benefit for me personally. I guess it's great if one works with a computer :) 22:46:20 hmm ok, I'm guessing that's the file linked from the cliki page. Thanks fe[nl]ix 22:46:35 antifuchs: yes, I can rewrite them, yet I'd prefer to throw some warning if arguments weren't used... 22:46:46 madnificent: I bought me a zaurus for pda:ing. I guess one could make something nice for inputting with the stylus and have it translated to something org-usable. 22:46:52 the boston lisp meeting has failed on the food front :( 22:46:54 madnificent: which will happen 22:47:04 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 22:47:15 Xach: no food at all or bad food ? 22:47:16 if you have an unused variable on the arg list, you will get a style warning 22:47:25 Hmm.. maybe one could keep client data in org.. 22:47:32 Adlai: as far as I can recal, it was downloading asdf, LOADing it and using it :) 22:47:40 eh. I'll stop my rambling. lisp time :) 22:47:43 fe[nl]ix: fare is absent, and nobody has taken responsibility for the food, as he usually does. 22:47:50 o noes 22:48:08 Adlai: see http://paste.lisp.org/display/84289 22:48:23 antifuchs: hmmm, yes... it wouldn't be as precise IMHO, but it would probably do just fine in a real environment... 22:49:12 antifuchs: thanks for the smart hackerish helping of the evil CL-raping mind :) 22:49:21 It's a chunk of my .sbclrc/.clisprc.lisp. The code loads asdf and sets the repository variable to a directory containing symbolic links to all my asdf files. 22:49:23 *madnificent* will probably regret building this 22:49:25 Guest497`: ccl includes asdf too 22:49:41 Thanks. Haven't used ccl in a while. 22:49:46 no matter how bad your cl style, I do not approve of the use of the term "rape" in this context 22:51:23 antifuchs: s/raping/unworthy/ 22:51:39 *nods* 22:51:46 anyway, good night 22:51:48 happy hacking 22:52:05 good night antifuchs 22:53:27 and abcl has asdf too 22:54:08 i have #-asdf (progn #+(or clisp cmu lispworks scl) (load (~ "lisp/site/asdf/asdf.lisp")) #+(or sbcl ccl acl ecl abcl) (require :asdf)) in my config 22:54:32 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 22:54:50 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:55:00 stassats`: do you use a common config for all your lisps? 22:55:06 yes 22:56:08 stassats`: do you just manually load your common config from each implementation-specific config file? 22:56:19 yes 22:56:25 stassats`: actually, &rest and &allow-other-keys will warn at compile time, not at run time... which is the only moment to find out there were too many arguments 22:57:19 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 22:57:37 ugh, github doesn't work for me, otherwise i'd give a link to my config 22:58:39 http://github.com/stassats/lisp-config/tree ? 22:58:51 right 23:01:23 damn slow for me 23:02:50 fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.228] has joined #lisp 23:03:29 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:03:37 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 23:03:56 stassats`: I got to your page, guessed from there on :0 23:04:35 i'm not very imaginative for names 23:05:13 stassats`: hm, interesting. you have a lot of systems... 23:07:16 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:09:47 jan247 [n=jan247@222.127.86.98] has joined #lisp 23:10:23 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:44 -!- Yuuhi` [i=benni@p5483ADED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:16:05 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit ["leaving"] 23:16:37 -!- willb [n=wibenton@compsci-wifi-39.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:19:04 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:19:37 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:20:54 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:21:16 -!- jan247 [n=jan247@222.127.86.98] has quit [] 23:22:40 kmels [n=kmels@190.148.229.252] has joined #lisp 23:23:30 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:56 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:27:48 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:27:58 -!- kmels [n=kmels@190.148.229.252] has left #lisp 23:29:59 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-200.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:34:18 Tordek [n=tordek@host106.190-138-152.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:36:02 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 23:36:51 dwh [n=dwh@eth2.vic.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:31 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:39:23 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has left #lisp 23:40:06 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:41:04 -!- vandemar [i=syndicat@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:41:19 kglovern [n=kglovern@CPE001d725da193-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:28 -!- Tordek_ [n=tordek@host249.190-137-252.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:41:38 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host106.190-138-152.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:41:39 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:42:26 vandemar [i=cohen@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has joined #lisp 23:42:42 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:01 *Xach* is sad none of this discussion is being archived for posterity 23:46:32 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:02 Xach: you and me both.. at least you get a zeroth-hand account of it... i get nuttin 23:48:11 seisatsu [n=seisatsu@adsl-63-198-106-143.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:11 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 23:48:36 kreuter is leading a very entertaining discussion 23:49:45 Xach: regarding what ? 23:49:59 build systems, asdf, deployment, dependencies 23:50:18 understatement of the night preceded a question: "so, you don't like asdf..." 23:50:24 hahaha :) 23:50:26 arrrgh 23:50:52 just now: 23:50:52 q: so, where do we go from here? 23:50:57 a: food. hopefully. 23:51:03 (did i mention the food failure?) 23:53:43 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:55 Xach: are you still missing Fare? that's a fail for food _and_ any discussion on build systems :) 23:55:19 lacrymology [n=lacrymol@6-64-17-190.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 23:58:34 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit []