00:02:16 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 00:03:28 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-25-29.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:04:04 hmm, the vector widetags seems to be packed together, I might get away with a range check. 00:04:10 *seem 00:05:38 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.199] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:06:22 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 00:06:35 ah but not all the vectors use copy_large_object, ahrg. 00:07:34 -!- kmels-siesta- is now known as kmels 00:10:55 -!- moesenle [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:55 -!- hefner [n=hefner@c-69-140-128-97.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:55 -!- michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:55 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:55 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:59 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:59 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:59 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-16-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:59 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:59 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-187-178.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:59 -!- serichse1 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-147-120.netcologne.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:59 -!- dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:59 -!- mdavid [n=mdavid@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:59 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:59 -!- younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:59 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:59 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:10:59 -!- Soulman__ [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- erg [n=erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-54-62.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- holycow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- sethen [n=setheus@pool-173-74-124-37.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- fnordus [n=dnall@70.71.225.48] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- Xof [n=crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- birdsbite [n=user@75.110.164.231] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- charitwo [n=charitwo@wikia/Charitwo] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- rbancrof1 [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- macondo [n=macondo@unaffiliated/macondo] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-4fe070d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- wakeup_vanuber [n=wakeup@koln-4db43df6.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- replaca [n=tom@76-191-193-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- ennen [n=nn@studio25.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- s0ber [i=pie@114-45-233-64.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- joshe [n=joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@ludios.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-17-83.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- kefka [n=user@ec2-75-101-205-165.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- Bucciarati [n=buccia@212.45.155.126] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- dalkvist [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- dostoyevsky [i=sck@195.49.138.42] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- dys [n=andreas@krlh-5f736ea8.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- retupmoca [n=retupmoc@ppp-69-221-252-243.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:11:16 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:12:16 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 macondo [n=macondo@unaffiliated/macondo] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 serichse1 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-147-120.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 birdsbite [n=user@75.110.164.231] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-16-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 mdavid [n=mdavid@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 charitwo [n=charitwo@wikia/Charitwo] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 moesenle [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 hefner [n=hefner@c-69-140-128-97.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 rbancrof1 [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-187-178.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 mikezor [n=mikael@c-4fe070d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 dys [n=andreas@krlh-5f736ea8.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 wakeup_vanuber [n=wakeup@koln-4db43df6.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 Soulman__ [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 replaca [n=tom@76-191-193-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 erg [n=erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 ennen [n=nn@studio25.org] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-54-62.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 holycow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 s0ber [i=pie@114-45-233-64.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 sethen [n=setheus@pool-173-74-124-37.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 joshe [n=joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 djinni` [n=djinni`@ludios.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 fnordus [n=dnall@70.71.225.48] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 Xof [n=crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 pragma_ [n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 dalkvist [n=cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 kefka [n=user@ec2-75-101-205-165.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 dostoyevsky [i=sck@195.49.138.42] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 Bucciarati [n=buccia@212.45.155.126] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-17-83.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 retupmoca [n=retupmoc@ppp-69-221-252-243.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:16 Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 00:12:18 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:45 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 00:13:02 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:13:30 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:17:43 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslce219.osnanet.de] has quit ["http://github.com/bakkdoor/rswing/"] 00:18:00 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:11 langzeitstudent_ [n=teilzeit@p5B17E80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:01 ausente [n=user7994@187.10.22.185] has joined #lisp 00:25:26 bwat74 [n=bwat@host-90-232-99-133.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 00:26:57 -!- bwat74 [n=bwat@host-90-232-99-133.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:27:09 bwat74 [n=bwat@host-90-232-99-133.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 00:29:29 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@97-95-190-124.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 00:29:46 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:29:49 -!- |Soulman| [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:31:52 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:31 -!- macondo [n=macondo@unaffiliated/macondo] has left #lisp 00:34:47 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229237200.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 00:36:28 -!- teilzeitstudent_ [n=teilzeit@p5B17EC3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:36:38 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #lisp 00:38:06 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:43:34 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:44:50 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-662147a15b03ca69] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:45:51 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p2225-ipngn1203marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:50:10 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:50:27 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:51:22 -!- birdsbite [n=user@75.110.164.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:54:49 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:58:46 -!- jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:58:49 jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 00:59:12 mgr_ [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 00:59:15 nuntius [n=nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:32 -!- saikat__ [n=saikat@adsl-71-139-210-181.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [] 01:04:53 -!- carlocci [n=nes@93.37.211.201] has quit ["eventually IE will rot and die"] 01:08:17 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:18:28 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:56 -!- bwat74 [n=bwat@host-90-232-99-133.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:23:05 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:24:14 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:25:13 -!- kmels is now known as kmels-cena 01:30:04 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:32:08 gko [n=Keca@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 01:36:10 -!- ajhager [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["A way a lone a last a loved a long the..."] 01:37:00 ajhager [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:08 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:38:28 -!- kmels-cena is now known as kmels 01:44:25 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:44:45 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:06 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:43 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:05 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has joined #lisp 01:52:54 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:55:19 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 02:06:29 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:07:42 Pegazus [n=gawgaw@host250.190-224-109.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:08:06 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.141.230.249] has joined #lisp 02:10:27 danlei` [n=user@217.226.206.123] has joined #lisp 02:10:51 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #lisp 02:15:43 dialtone [n=dialtone@c-69-181-124-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:29 wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d81538a.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 02:18:43 dys` [n=andreas@krlh-5f7069bf.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 02:20:02 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.141.230.249] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:25:44 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Success] 02:28:02 -!- danlei [n=user@217.226.218.153] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:28:55 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:30:21 -!- wakeup_vanuber [n=wakeup@koln-4db43df6.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:30:33 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 02:30:54 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-177-41.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:59 -!- dys [n=andreas@krlh-5f736ea8.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:31:01 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest11272 02:37:42 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 02:39:02 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 02:40:49 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 02:47:09 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 02:47:28 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 02:53:15 -!- Guest11272 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 02:56:39 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:59:52 -!- Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:59:53 -!- holly__ [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:00:17 holly__ [n=holly@62.49.19.123] has joined #lisp 03:02:04 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@24.91.154.83] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:05:40 pbusser3: by unconventionally, I meant usage of cache control, moves and logic operations for various tricks 03:06:43 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 03:09:56 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 03:12:33 sreeram [n=sreeram@122.174.135.247] has joined #lisp 03:16:29 -!- dto [n=user@98.118.1.212] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:16:36 lexa_ [n=lexa_@83.222.5.112] has joined #lisp 03:17:04 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest93725 03:21:47 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-174-189.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:47 dto [n=user@98.118.1.212] has joined #lisp 03:31:20 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-d53a0c60ecc6d34b] has joined #lisp 03:33:37 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:34:26 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 03:35:22 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:39:42 kmels_ [n=kmels@190.148.127.191] has joined #lisp 03:40:54 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["off"] 03:42:35 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:42:47 ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 03:44:27 morning, #lisp. 03:44:45 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:44:45 Hey :) Evening here, about bed time, haha. 03:45:13 I should be asleep still (it's 05:45), so it evens out! 03:45:49 I just got up 03:46:54 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:49:20 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 03:49:33 hehe, I wish I could get up tht early more often 03:49:37 I actually really enjoy the mornings 03:49:56 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has joined #lisp 03:50:28 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 03:51:07 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:51:10 b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 03:51:14 Hekar [n=Hekar@dsl-67-212-13-19.acanac.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:39 "Jargon File Disorder is a syndrome which affects those who have just discovered the Jargon File. The condition is closely related to IRColalia. Symptoms include obsessive yammering about "hacker" vs. "cracker", Three Letter Acronym Abuse, and gratuitous use of obsolete (and frequently half-understood) slang: If you don't know LISP reasonably well, the sense of CDR will elude you, and there's no shame in admitting it because who the hell 03:51:40 writes in LISP any more?" 03:52:12 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-179.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:52:25 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-179.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:25 hah, that's kinda funny in a way. 03:54:44 rotfl 03:55:41 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:55:43 -!- Guest93725 [n=lexa_@83.222.5.112] has left #lisp 03:56:00 -!- danlei [n=user@217.226.206.123] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:56:06 danlei [n=user@pD9E2EFFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:13 -!- Hekar [n=Hekar@dsl-67-212-13-19.acanac.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:56:48 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 03:58:59 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:59:05 *sykopomp* wonders why the hell GMT-5 is +5 in lisp time zone speak. 04:01:58 -!- kmels [n=kmels@190.148.177.22] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:04:48 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-147-233.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:05:42 When I load "CFFI-UFFI-COMPAT" on ccl, I get this error: "UFFI" is already the name of #. How can I solve this? 04:06:38 -!- kmels_ is now known as kmels 04:07:01 tomoyuki28jp: don't load UFFI if you want to use CFFI's compatibility layer. 04:08:04 -!- alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:08:21 pkhuong: Thanks for the info. It seems like one of depending packages of a package I am trying to use is doing that. uhm. 04:09:42 luis: 4 pages would be a huge code object. Still, it'd probably be a good idea to allocate these in large object regions too. 04:09:57 -!- Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 04:12:29 -!- nuntius [n=nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:19:05 Good morning. 04:20:02 g'morron. 04:23:37 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:28:26 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 04:29:44 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:34:50 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:35:10 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-147-233.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:35:30 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 04:41:05 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 04:41:16 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-156-29.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:11 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:42:22 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 04:43:42 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:44:47 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 04:45:58 splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 04:45:59 morning 04:48:36 ASau [n=user@host78-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 04:49:06 hello splittist 04:58:27 Guest83830 [n=user@208.127.247.82] has joined #lisp 04:59:10 -!- Guest83830 is now known as jlf` 05:07:02 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-177-41.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:14:21 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:15:06 -!- Pegazus [n=gawgaw@host250.190-224-109.telecom.net.ar] has left #lisp 05:20:31 SMP is coming to Allegro CL 9.0. As I understand it, it will break standard lisp code that relies on side-effects? Is that correct? 05:22:10 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:36 Bah, it's late, I'll try to pick this up later. 05:26:39 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:35:56 alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:54 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has quit ["leaving"] 05:41:06 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has joined #lisp 05:41:06 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has quit [Client Quit] 05:41:34 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has joined #lisp 05:42:00 -!- gko [n=Keca@211.21.137.140] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:44:05 gko [n=Keca@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 05:46:36 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:47:13 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-177-41.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:35 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 05:50:16 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Client Quit] 05:53:13 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 05:53:50 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:53:52 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:11 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:59:56 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:00:29 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 06:01:13 jan247 [n=jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has joined #lisp 06:03:15 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:04:17 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:04:22 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:02 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:08:30 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 06:08:48 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-243.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:09:19 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:09:42 -!- kmels [n=kmels@190.148.127.191] has quit [] 06:13:07 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:16:56 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:25:10 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-165.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:28 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 06:38:03 mrSpec [n=NoOne@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 06:38:56 hello 06:41:07 hello 06:41:32 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 06:41:43 olleh! (the similarity to "ole" just occured to me) 06:42:09 hallå ja 06:42:45 tic: I have been writing code in vim for days now. And now I have the need for writing some lisp, but starting emacs up is ... keeping me away :S 06:42:56 schme, yay! (?) 06:43:01 it's terrible :P 06:43:16 emacs is a huge beast. 06:43:58 well not that huge. 06:44:06 just vim was very nice for editing. 06:44:20 densem [n=fasteez2@218.217.72-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:47 yup. 06:45:10 Well time to grab me some cl-opengl. 06:45:48 and go on celebrating that I closed the CoC#2 (: 06:46:50 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has quit ["leaving"] 06:48:02 CoC = Cucumber of Code? 06:48:13 *p_l* just read Mercury 2 having crew of "one, capt. Ham (chimpanzee)". Wonder if he got official pay for that... :D 06:48:16 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:49:57 -!- jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:50:00 splittist: captain of crush :P 06:50:33 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 06:52:50 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@75.36.204.63] has joined #lisp 06:54:34 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-130-147.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:48 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:16 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@75.36.204.63] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:55:32 anyone here got vimpulse to work? 06:57:16 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Success] 07:00:05 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:01:40 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-1-151.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:02:24 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:03:55 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-16-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:04:32 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:05:28 -!- roderic [n=user@bubbles.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:06:30 zbigniew_ [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 07:06:31 -!- zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:07:13 Odin- [n=sbkhh@130.208.131.159] has joined #lisp 07:09:22 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:39 cracki [n=cracki@44-040.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:15:16 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:17:10 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:17:23 prg [n=prg@ns.alusht.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:25 kiuma [n=kiuma@93-36-2-203.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:19:31 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 07:21:16 p_l: he came back alive and had a lot of bananas for the rest of his life. Contrarily to Leika... 07:22:51 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@84-75-21-37.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [] 07:23:29 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit ["leaving"] 07:23:43 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:28:54 mega1 [n=mega@pool-0481e.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:29:04 sykopomp: because CL is ANSI-CL, that is American, and they've got their point of view... 07:29:23 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:29:40 pjb: in America, the planet spins in the other direction? 07:29:48 does anyone know a good tutorial etc for sbcl threaded programming? 07:29:50 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has joined #lisp 07:29:58 They are Plus, so they dont want to be in a Minus TZ... 07:30:08 jdz_ [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:30:09 pjb: of course, of course. 07:30:58 Happily, they're sleeping, otherwise we'd risk an invasion! :-) 07:31:19 *sykopomp* is not sleeping. 07:32:40 nevermind, found the sbcl manual 07:35:55 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:36:17 drafael: sb-ext:compare-and-swap is useful for threading, not sure if it's in the manual 07:36:40 larry: thanks, I'll have a look at it 07:37:04 -!- alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:37:06 I assumed that threads would automatically background, but this doesn't seem to be happening with (sb-thread:make-thread ...) 07:37:11 -!- TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:37:21 drafael: sure, though DESCRIBE has an typo for compare-and-swap. 07:37:40 alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:49 pjb: well, if ajka survived landing, she might have had nice retirement too... 07:38:17 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-177-41.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:38:50 blandest [n=user@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 07:39:00 -!- alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:39:19 alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:38 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has joined #lisp 07:41:12 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@88.208.105.1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:41:51 ah, I need to give it a :name ? 07:42:31 mrSpec [n=NoOne@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 07:45:13 hey hefner i sent a patch to cffi-devel that allows you to use cffi-wrapper shared objects more easily with sbcl 07:46:36 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:47:07 drafael: I haven't found any use for the name slot. 07:48:07 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:48:27 odd 07:49:00 is the lambda necessary then? 07:51:45 drafael: the lambda is mostly used to pass data to the new thread 07:57:20 larry: you could use :name to do something like (defun get-threads (name) (remove-if-not #'(lambda (c) (equal c name)) (sb-thread:list-all-threads) :key #'sb-thread:thread-name)) but it's probably better just to keep track of your threads in the first place :P 07:57:22 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:57:47 TuxPurple [n=TuxPurpl@unaffiliated/tuxpurple] has joined #lisp 07:58:02 I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean by passing data to the new thread though - how is (lambda () ...) different to ... in terms of data passing? 07:59:03 Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:59:51 drafael: the simplest case would be (make-thread 'new-thread-function) vs: (let ((x 0)) (make-thread (lambda () (new-thread-function x))) 08:01:11 oh! 08:01:18 okay, that explains a lot, thanks :) 08:02:07 HG` [n=wells@xdsleh241.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:02:55 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 08:03:42 manuel_ [n=manuel@91.89.172.94] has joined #lisp 08:05:04 zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:43 ilitirit: I have a workable solution using Stelian's patches, but I don't follow closely enough to know if those were ever committed. your approach seems to deal with the library path and reloading libraries more gracefully than tricking SBCL using LD_LIBRARY_PATH as I do, though. 08:07:34 good morning 08:11:39 -!- cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has quit ["leaving"] 08:12:16 cp2 [n=will@please.dont.make.me.eatddos.info] has joined #lisp 08:16:41 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has joined #lisp 08:17:45 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:27:33 pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has joined #lisp 08:28:18 hefner, i had been going on about this since the spring and didn't notice stelian had made any patches until i had finished mine :( 08:30:50 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-d53a0c60ecc6d34b] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:31:57 heh 08:36:46 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:38:19 serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-156-97.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:40:43 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:40:53 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:44:27 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."] 08:45:01 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 08:45:10 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:47:28 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:48:20 holly_ [n=holly@62.49.19.123] has joined #lisp 08:48:27 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 08:50:06 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 08:50:16 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-36-239.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:50:38 serichse2 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-157-158.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:52:39 -!- serichse1 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-147-120.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:53:43 jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 08:54:39 mld [n=user@90-224-13-4-no124.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:55:57 -!- jan247 [n=jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:58:10 Has anyone used CL-SMTP to send e-mails from google mail account? I'm trying but got error: "Message failed: 500 5.5.1 Command unrecognized: "AUTH LOGIN"." 09:00:47 itze [n=itze@77-22-106-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:01:03 No, but I've got the CL-SMTP author sitting next to me, and he doesn't really understand the question. Can you elaborate? 09:01:57 mrSpec: I suspect you did something wrong with authentication :D 09:02:06 free_thinker [n=willijar@134.151.144.246] has joined #lisp 09:02:13 hehe 09:02:23 Ok I'll paste my code 09:02:51 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-156-97.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:03:10 hello, i'm the CL-SMTP author 09:03:59 hello nice to meet you :) 09:04:13 -!- holly__ [n=holly@62.49.19.123] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:04:14 does CL-SMTP works with Gmail? ;) 09:04:39 yes, i have tested it with my gmail account 09:06:12 mrspec pasted "CL-SMTP & Gmail" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83729 09:06:53 Did I something wrong? 09:07:06 you have to use ssl for gmail 09:07:20 mrSpec: you need SSL or TLS to access gmail 09:07:26 ahh 09:07:44 plain-text over encrypted connection, afaik 09:07:53 how can I use SSL in CL-cmtp ? 09:07:56 smtp* 09:09:19 see README and use keyword ssl 09:09:34 philip_nilsson [n=philip@exjobb5.ludat.lth.se] has joined #lisp 09:10:03 ah readme :D Ok thanks 09:10:28 i know my documentation is far from perfect 09:10:38 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 09:10:42 I haven't seen this file 09:10:42 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Success] 09:10:50 I've used asd-install 09:10:54 -!- asksol [n=ask@250.246.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:10:56 asdf-install* 09:12:08 no problem 09:14:04 -!- CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:14:30 -!- Foofie is now known as Fufie 09:14:30 hmm I cant find anything about SSL in README file :S 09:14:55 Gertm [n=user@mail.dzine.be] has joined #lisp 09:15:26 I'm reading README from cl-smtp.tar.gz. 09:15:51 ah okey, you need the cvs version, i have to build a new tar.gz 09:16:19 ahh ok :D 09:16:30 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:17:25 Yuuhi [n=user@84.131.232.1] has joined #lisp 09:18:30 version from CVS is newer than from ASDF? 09:18:54 yes it is 09:19:05 ASDF and asdf-install are different things, don't confuse them 09:19:34 mrSpec: just so you know, that's like saying "version from svn is newer than from make?" 09:19:41 it makes no sense 09:19:49 ah ok 09:26:37 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-159-44.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:26:57 Where can I find out description about "#+:"? 09:28:55 you're talking about reader conditionals? check the hyperspec in the reader section 09:29:33 ilitirit: thanks 09:30:24 ilitirit: Is there a way to do things like "#+:else"? 09:31:28 i wonder what that should do... 09:31:52 jdz: do something for allegro, otherwise do something else.. 09:31:54 tomoyuki28jp, maybe you mean #-:else? what do you want it to do? 09:31:57 you mean #+sbcl 50 #-sbcl 42 09:32:09 #+allegro 09:32:33 I think stassats' answer is what I wanted. thanks guys. 09:37:17 Reav___ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 09:37:48 clhs #+ 09:37:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhq.htm 09:37:52 tomoyuki28jp: ^ 09:38:06 matimago: thanks!! 09:40:09 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:43 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #lisp 09:46:33 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:47:23 -!- serichse2 is now known as serichsen 09:50:36 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@130.208.131.159] has quit [] 09:51:42 I got this error while compiling my package on allegro: "stream # can't be used as output" The package works on SBCL. Any idea what's the error about? 09:52:09 frozsyn [n=FrozSyn@wafer.futurs.inria.fr] has joined #lisp 09:52:44 Sounds like a gray-stream issue, but I don't know. 09:53:00 -!- prg [n=prg@ns.alusht.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:53:01 tomoyuki28jp: show your code? 09:53:47 stassats: wait a min please 09:53:59 prg [n=prg@91.214.124.1] has joined #lisp 09:54:00 Hi there! Is there a way to create a setfable function or lambda (not macro) ? 09:54:12 yes 09:54:29 stassats: I got the error while compiling this file. http://github.com/tomoyuki28jp/web4r/blob/259d5ca12c036fe45490a4468038f9f1e2ef6d08/tests/run.lisp 09:54:30 (defun (setf foo) (...) ...) 09:54:36 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 09:55:20 Or use defsetf. 09:55:55 You might also note how #'(setf foo) works. 09:57:18 drewc: how come you are both the UCW maintainer and the author of LoL? Don't they overlap a lot? 09:57:33 ok, so in all case, the 'setf stuff' is strongly attached to the symbol, so no possibility to create a 'setfable lambda' on the fly 09:57:47 densem-jr [n=fasteez2@218.217.72-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:49 frozsyn: What does a 'setfable lambda' mean? 09:57:59 jan247 [n=jan247@222.127.93.32] has joined #lisp 09:58:14 I want to create a lambda that return a place 09:58:15 Using FUNCALL or APPLY as a place? 09:58:30 frozsyn: Places aren't first class. 09:59:15 Zhivago, yep I know, and that's why i'm trying to find a trick 09:59:29 The trick is to return a function that does the damage, and not use setf. 09:59:41 Would it be sufficient to return a closure containing a place access? 10:00:12 nyef, so i need to return a pair of function, a getter and a setter... 10:01:09 Right. 10:01:36 At which point you reach for either multiple-values or some data structure (often a CONS or two). 10:01:48 frozsyn: You could return one function that does both. 10:01:58 hunchentoot does not work with allegro because of flexi-streams? 10:02:17 (lambda (&optional (value nil set-p)) (if set-p ... 10:02:32 -!- Reav__ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Success] 10:03:30 Zhivago, I didn't though about optionals... thanks, I will try this 10:03:43 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:03:43 There may be efficiency issues. 10:05:23 There may be people complaining about your taking file-position as a precedent. 10:05:46 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit ["leaving"] 10:05:53 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-159-44.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:09:01 *nyef* heads back towards bed. 10:10:51 -!- mega1 [n=mega@pool-0481e.externet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:12:24 -!- densem [n=fasteez2@218.217.72-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:16:17 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@91.89.172.94] has quit [] 10:18:08 bdowning_ [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:27 Pepe_ [n=ppjet@78.116.13.28] has joined #lisp 10:21:30 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdsleh241.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:23:44 arquebus [i=sdf@201.139.148.141.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 10:24:30 -!- hdurer [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-cc638ada0999ae38] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:28:09 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 10:29:36 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:30:06 -!- bdowning_ is now known as bdowning 10:43:22 hezy [n=hezy@62.56.254.225] has joined #lisp 10:48:41 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 10:50:26 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:54:19 -!- arquebus [i=sdf@201.139.148.141.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:55:14 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 10:55:28 -!- hezy [n=hezy@62.56.254.225] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:58:32 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has joined #lisp 11:05:28 -!- ASau [n=user@host78-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 11:06:19 hdurer [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-680b263bdfae315a] has joined #lisp 11:06:52 -!- gko [n=Keca@211.21.137.140] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:08:09 -!- prg [n=prg@91.214.124.1] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 11:08:22 prg_ [n=prg@ns.alusht.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:57 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-165.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:16:00 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 11:22:22 morning 11:23:31 holly__ [n=holly@62.49.19.123] has joined #lisp 11:24:50 blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.28.224] has joined #lisp 11:26:58 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:28:25 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:28:33 -!- KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:29:10 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:30:17 HG` [n=wells@xdslem078.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:32:31 KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 11:33:22 -!- JHVH [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:35:34 -!- dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:35:44 -!- philip_nilsson [n=philip@exjobb5.ludat.lth.se] has left #lisp 11:36:49 pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:58 fiveop [n=fiveop@g229236175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:39:04 -!- holly_ [n=holly@62.49.19.123] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:40:16 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 11:40:40 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:41:21 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 11:43:45 -!- holly__ [n=holly@62.49.19.123] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:43:46 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:43:49 -!- KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [] 11:46:38 moghar` [n=user@157.185.jawnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:46:38 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:48:21 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:55:38 -!- vy [n=user@nbvyazici.cs.bilkent.edu.tr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:58:11 mega1 [n=mega@3e44aa22.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:58:18 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:02:38 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:04:55 rdd [n=user@83.250.157.93] has joined #lisp 12:04:59 KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 12:05:11 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:05:47 hey 12:05:48 Does anyone know what license verrazono is under (in particular, verrazano-runtime)? 12:06:12 -!- moghar` is now known as moghar 12:06:52 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 12:07:22 elliotstern [n=chatzill@69.143.33.196] has joined #lisp 12:11:33 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@122.174.135.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:12:15 sreeram [n=sreeram@59.96.14.130] has joined #lisp 12:12:15 lichtblau: this doesn't help hugely http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs#licenses 12:13:46 -!- jan247 [n=jan247@222.127.93.32] has quit [Client Quit] 12:17:21 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:36 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:36 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:20:14 *lichtblau* needs to audit, list, and explain all open source licenses used 12:20:58 bughunter2 [n=bughunte@unaffiliated/bughunter2] has joined #lisp 12:22:01 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 sounds like fun. 12:24:35 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 12:24:39 definitely fun, for a lawyer 12:25:06 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 12:25:53 Well, we already have this kind of document. The upcoming import of attilaware just makes the document quite a bit longer than it used to be... 12:28:07 time to throw in cl-http just for fun 12:30:21 oh, yes, it has a very special license, doesn't it? 12:30:45 no 'anti-social' use 12:31:46 A political licence. 12:32:54 arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 12:33:57 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslem078.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:35:50 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:36:40 What is the super sweet lisp way to make 12 and 14 into a bit-vector so I can bit-and 'em? 12:36:58 (logand 12 14) 12:37:45 stassats: That's so funny. I just found it in the hyperspec. Thanks very much though :) 12:38:13 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:38:25 What does this error mean? "array does not have a fill pointer" 12:38:57 it means exactly what it says 12:39:11 -!- densem-jr [n=fasteez2@218.217.72-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:41:47 This code works on SBCL, but not on allegro. http://paste.lisp.org/display/83735 Am I doing wrong thing in the code? 12:42:30 i bet it does that after DELETE 12:43:51 stassats: what do you mean? 12:44:19 that it returns vector without a fill-pointer 12:44:20 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 12:44:48 stassats: yeah, it seems like it. how can I solve it? 12:46:03 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 12:46:27 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:48:30 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:50:25 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 12:50:30 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:50:31 blackwolf [n=blackwol@69.118.53.65] has joined #lisp 12:50:36 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:50:43 so, heh, 4chan or somethingawful couldn't be rewritten with cl-http (: 12:51:07 sbcl/ how do you invoke this without error: (SB-PCL::FIND-CLASS-FROM-CELL 'classname nil t) -> error: There is no class named CLASSNAME 12:51:19 tomoyuki28jp: (setf v (adjust-array v (array-dimensions v))) 12:51:40 larry: what do you actually want to do? 12:52:00 Xof: I'm trying to debug, that code shows up in the backtrace. 12:52:04 sb-pcl::find-class-from-cell is an internal function that you shouldn't be calling unless you know what you're doing 12:52:09 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@69.143.33.196] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:52:12 jan247 [n=jan247@222.127.93.32] has joined #lisp 12:52:23 larry: what function are you actually trying to call? find-class? 12:53:15 Xof: I'm trying to call an accessor, but end up in that backtrace. 12:54:03 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@59.96.14.130] has quit [] 12:54:21 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:54:36 stassats: thanks, but it seems like your codes doesn't work 12:54:54 I mean on allegro. 12:54:55 -!- jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Success] 12:55:12 sreeram [n=sreeram@122.174.135.247] has joined #lisp 12:55:59 Xof: I guess FIND-CLASS-FROM-CELL is deeper because of tail recursion, (sb-pcl::find class 'classname) also barfs, thats good. Maybe it is because I havn't exported the classname in the other package. 12:57:01 tomoyuki28jp: the short test case is (delete nil (make-array 42 :fill-pointer 0 :adjustable t)) 12:57:16 that returns an array that is not adjustable and without a fill pointer 12:57:57 tomoyuki28jp: congratulations, you found a bug :) 12:58:12 fe[nl]ix: Is that a bug on allegro? 12:58:14 It was that.. I though exporting the accessors was enough ( if the client only uses the accessors ). 12:58:37 tomoyuki28jp: yes. I've tested it on 8.1 with the latest updates 12:59:01 fe[nl]ix: oh really... thanks for letting me know that. 12:59:03 Jasko3 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:23 larry: I'd expect it to be enough, to be honest 13:00:56 fe[nl]ix: it works on clozure cl too. 13:00:58 dlowe [n=dlowe@24.91.154.83] has joined #lisp 13:00:59 damn it!! 13:01:27 larry: it is enough, I just tried it 13:02:03 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@122.174.135.247] has quit [] 13:02:08 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["[BX] He-Man uses BitchX. *HE HAS THE POOWWEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRR!!!!!*"] 13:02:26 tomoyuki28jp: see http://franz.com/support.lhtml 13:02:44 mathrick: I'll try to shrink it down to an pastable version 13:03:03 a bug in adjust-array? 13:03:32 rouslan [n=Rouslan@pool-70-20-40-108.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:38 mathrick pasted "Unexported class" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83736 13:03:43 larry: ^ 13:03:49 -!- bughunter2 [n=bughunte@unaffiliated/bughunter2] has left #lisp 13:04:34 so, heh, 4chan or somethingawful couldn't be rewritten with cl-http (: <-- why not? 13:04:44 antisocial? 13:04:51 mathrick: the license forbids anti-social usage (: 13:05:25 oh 13:05:34 I need to check that out 13:06:23 it doesn't DEFINE anti-social usage, thouggh 13:06:43 the term has always had a pretty fluid definition 13:06:44 anyone with an asbo, clearly 13:07:17 fe[nl]ix: I just send a bug report to franz. thanks for the link. 13:07:41 running the central node of what I consider a mechanical turk for DDoS attacks, it qualifies for me (: 13:08:14 tomoyuki28jp: what was the bug? 13:08:47 stassats: it's not a bug? 13:09:04 what is not a bug? 13:09:08 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:09:42 stassats: I thought this code expected to work. (vector-push-extend 1 (delete nil (make-array 42 :fill-pointer 0 :adjustable t))) 13:10:07 fe[nl]ix: From HyperSpec: "delete, delete-if, and delete-if-not are like remove, remove-if, and remove-if-not respectively, but they may modify sequence." 13:10:12 fe[nl]ix: so it's not a bug? 13:10:24 it's not a bug 13:10:25 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:10:27 this also doesn't work though. (vector-push-extend 1 (remove nil (make-array 42 :fill-pointer 0 :adjustable t))) 13:10:51 jsnell: so how can I do that? 13:12:51 jsnell: I consider it a bug. delete on an adjustable array should return an adjustable array, whether the original or not 13:12:52 moghar [n=user@157.185.jawnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:13:22 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:13:34 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:14:03 fe[nl]ix: the notes say the returned vector may differ in type from the input vector 13:14:08 "If sequence is a vector, the result might or might not be simple, and might or might not be identical to sequence." 13:14:32 right, the only requirement is for the element-type to stay constant 13:14:41 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 13:14:42 it doesn't reserve the case that is happening here, but it cautions you against another, similar case 13:15:23 huh? I think it's exactly talking about this case 13:15:35 Dewi_ [n=dewi@guy78-3-82-239-227-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:39 adjustable, fill-pointered vectors are not simple (: 13:15:41 so if it's not a bug, what's the proper way to do it? 13:16:03 make-array? 13:16:39 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:16:45 stassats: could you give me a sample code? 13:17:50 antifuchs: sure, and this is saying that for a non-simple-array input the output might be a simple-array 13:18:05 ah 13:18:06 -!- prg_ [n=prg@ns.alusht.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:18:17 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:20 prg_ [n=prg@ns.alusht.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:31 you're right, I initially read that as favoring the simple-vector result 13:18:37 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:18:41 addled [n=adl@235.Red-83-37-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:49 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:54 sellout [n=greg@24.128.50.176] has joined #lisp 13:19:08 -!- cracki [n=cracki@44-040.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 13:19:09 yeah, I can see how it could be read like that, but since the element-type needs to be retained, it must be talking about simple-array 13:19:42 tomoyuki28jp: (make-array (array-dimensions vector) :initial-contents vector :fill-pointer t :adjustable t) 13:22:40 s/array-dimensions/length/ 13:23:58 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:34 stassats: thanks a lot! 13:24:38 this works. http://paste.lisp.org/display/83739 13:28:19 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 13:28:20 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 13:28:23 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:28:47 ``Erik [n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org] has joined #lisp 13:28:56 could be (if (and (array-has-fill-pointer-p vector) (adjustable-array-p vector)) vector (make-array ...)) 13:31:34 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:48 mathrick: I'd claim 4chan to be internation cultural treasure 13:34:54 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:34:57 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:35:05 mathrick: then you can't say it's anti-social usage :D 13:35:25 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest16195 13:36:01 4chan is a site where people socialize so it can't be antisocial amirite 13:36:21 drafael: it just shows that humanity isn't as nice as we delude ourselves... 13:37:21 indeed 13:37:38 -!- Dewi_ [n=dewi@guy78-3-82-239-227-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:37:57 -!- dwave is now known as asksol 13:37:58 *p_l* doesn't understand people who try saying that humanity is nice etc. We are top-dogs because we are the biggest motherf*cking evil badasses of species. 13:38:39 I never noted that :initial-contents could be a vector (it's a sequence (of sequence)*). 13:39:06 p_l: of course. Try to invade Afganistan, or worse, France, and see what happens! :-) 13:39:25 p_l: Heh, I think some people can be nice, but I think everyone has their "breaking limits". 13:39:36 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:40:21 http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/07/are-you-afraid-you-will-be.html if anyone is interested 13:41:02 p_l: http://fare.livejournal.com/141715.html ; and decide if invading France is worse or not ;-) 13:41:04 -!- Guest16195 is now known as pkhuong 13:41:27 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 13:41:32 Humanity is nothing compared to fungi. 13:41:54 We're just smart enough not to realize how puny we are. 13:42:05 -!- blandest [n=user@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:42:30 Zhivago: but who invented Javel water? 13:43:02 http://video.google.fr/videosearch?q=slime%20mold 13:44:43 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:45:38 HG` [n=wells@xdslet106.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:45:46 densem-jr [n=fasteez2@86.72.217.218] has joined #lisp 13:47:10 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 13:50:58 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-32-194.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:27 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:51:50 timor [n=martin@w4087.dip.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 13:52:12 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-130-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:52:28 froydnj [n=froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 13:54:07 TDT: actually, "don't kill" comes from a basic feedback mechanism designed to stop us from killing our "pack". We are rather... ruthless when we define someone/something as "other" 13:55:12 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 13:55:22 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:16 p_l: Yeah, probably true - but people volunteer their time to help others with food, shelter, or just randomly stopping by and helping people change the tire on their vehicle. I think it depends upon the area, but I think there are some "nice" people who tend to be nice regardless of the reward. 13:56:39 p_l: however, we do to have a tendency, or at least some of us do, to widen the definition of 'other' over time 13:57:06 TDT: to an extent, an evolutionary form of 'what goes around comes around' applies there, potentially 13:58:04 (the very idea that all humans are due certain rights and it is not okay to arbitrarily invade or kill them is pretty new, as far as mainstream morality goes; less that 100 years 13:58:11 but it is becoming increasingly ingrained 13:58:40 rsynnott: It's almost entirely due to population density. 13:59:01 all life will evolve to kill eachother, ultimately with nukes 13:59:10 gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:43 If anything, things like nuclear weapons tend to prevent war between the major powers which posess them 14:00:28 That's what Nobel thought about high explosives. 14:04:47 People are extremely complex. People in groups more so (although it is fashionable to deny this). Luckily CL is relatively simple! 14:04:55 rsynnott: nuclear weapons aren't really weapons of mass destruction - mainstream weapons are. 14:05:41 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:06:16 splittist: CL has a Spec. Do you? 14:06:37 Zhivago: he was demonstrably wrong,though, whereas there's some evidence that nuclear arms made a major land war during the cold war impossible 14:06:42 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:07:05 Except in afghanistan? 14:07:10 meingbg: not that I know of. And I suspect not knowable. 14:08:01 Zhivago: afghanistan and vietnam were minor, compared to a potential European land war 14:08:06 splittist: Probably. 14:08:34 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:08:53 is nuclear weapons discussion an evolution of gun-control discussions? 14:08:57 And they were both sufficient to bankrupt a major power. 14:09:40 stassats: completely different issue; the idea of nuclear weapons held by states has nothing in particular to do with weapons of any type held by random people 14:10:20 there is always someone in charge 14:10:37 let over read-table still seems to alter the original. What am I doing wrong? 14:10:40 well, someones, perhaps 14:11:19 meingbg: do you copy it? 14:11:27 because let will save only the binding 14:12:31 jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 14:12:51 stassats: (let ((*read-table* (copy-readtable))) 14:13:09 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@113.77.51.15] has joined #lisp 14:13:32 -!- Samy is now known as sbahra 14:14:02 Right! 14:14:17 I hold a sharp Lisp-compiler and I won't hesitate to use it against anyone. 14:14:46 stassats: Wait, I got a warning "using the lexical binding of the symbol *READ-TABLE*" 14:15:06 stassats: That would explain the result, but why does it use the lexical binding? 14:15:09 right, it's *readtable* 14:15:20 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.179.15] has joined #lisp 14:15:25 stassats: Ah, I see. 14:15:58 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@88.208.105.1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:16:01 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has joined #lisp 14:16:18 mrSpec [n=NoOne@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 14:17:25 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [] 14:18:47 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:20:21 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E45403.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:03 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.179.15] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:21:10 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.179.15] has joined #lisp 14:21:29 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 14:21:59 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:22:31 lispm [n=joswig@e177151086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:22:53 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:23:18 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.179.15] has quit [Client Quit] 14:23:41 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.179.15] has joined #lisp 14:25:26 nvteighen [n=nvteighe@190.Red-79-151-168.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:23 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:26:43 hdurer_ [n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-b883f150da830fd3] has joined #lisp 14:27:54 bgs101 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:28:22 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:28:32 -!- bgs101 is now known as bgs100 14:28:44 Hun [n=hun@80.153.55.38] has joined #lisp 14:28:57 bgs101 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:29:01 hey bgs101 14:29:56 -!- bgs101 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:30:28 bgs101 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:30:53 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 14:31:24 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:32:33 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:32:47 -!- bgs101 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 14:33:56 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:33:58 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16] has joined #lisp 14:35:13 -!- frozsyn [n=FrozSyn@wafer.futurs.inria.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:36:35 Friday is awesome, but I wish it'd go by faster, heh. 14:37:09 Walk east. 14:37:31 Haha, ok, true. 14:37:55 i'd walk west then 14:38:01 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177151086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:38:42 Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has joined #lisp 14:38:59 lispm [n=joswig@e177126113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:40:04 fusss [i=73802ace@gateway/web/freenode/x-1b8e5d8659d2a459] has joined #lisp 14:40:31 greetings 14:40:35 greetings 14:40:46 kpreid [n=kpreid@12.154.71.10] has joined #lisp 14:42:42 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:44:15 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:44:22 kmels [n=kmels@190.148.195.36] has joined #lisp 14:44:28 Does anyone use metabang-bind? 14:44:44 gwk, most notably. 14:44:46 gwking uses it 14:45:04 Of course, besides gwk? 14:45:07 Is it possible list files from directory in Lisp? Like linux ls command? 14:45:17 clhs directory 14:45:17 clhs directory 14:45:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_dir.htm 14:45:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_dir.htm 14:45:29 thanks :) 14:46:10 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:47:12 i think attila uses bind for some of his libraries, tmh 14:48:36 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@113.77.51.15] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:49:43 I wonder if anyone could give me some SBCL thread+socket insight. I have a program that reads from a socket inside a with-timeout construct. This seems to work some number of times, and then SBCL gets itself into a state where it's in wait-until-fd-usable, and the with-timeout seems to stop working. 14:49:44 rpg, memo from sykopomp: Later in the day. Starting at 7 or so, but that's mainly because I'm a night owl :) 14:50:30 have you considered with-deadline instead? 14:50:36 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 14:50:58 minion: memo for sykopomp: given that we are already running till 10 or after starting at 6, I'm not sure we can start later (esp since the cafe will throw us out by 11). 14:50:59 Remembered. I'll tell sykopomp when he/she/it next speaks. 14:51:08 jsnell: any opinion on more aggressive constant-lvar-p/lvar-value? 14:51:14 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:51:23 -!- blackwolf [n=blackwol@69.118.53.65] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:51:24 ENOCONTEXT 14:51:32 *tmh* looks over the metabang-bind user guide 14:51:40 -!- nvteighen [n=nvteighe@190.Red-79-151-168.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 14:51:58 There's a bug where a VOP for EQL assumes that it can't have both arguments be constant values. 14:52:38 jsnell: No, I hadn't. Let me look at with-deadline so that I can answer that question better... 14:52:46 rpg: with-timeout is fundamentally unsafe since it involves an asynchronous unwind from a signal handler. with-deadline should make the low level read time out using select 14:52:55 But in fact, it can happen with EQL types, which don't result in constant-lvar-p in IR1, but somehow get transformed into constant TNs during IR2. 14:54:06 if the compiler can deduce the constness of more things, I'm all for it 14:54:43 One option would be to adopt a similar logic for IR1 too, the other to fix VOPs to handle that weird arguments combination correctly. 14:55:54 The only problem I have is that the check for constantness becomes slightly more expensive, and it's not really possible to rewrite the IR1 graph to implicitly cache the results. 14:56:33 Hmm but directory only shows if file or directory exists? How can I use this returned list? 14:56:42 hmm... does it really become more expensive for the normal case? I thought this would've been just an additional case for (the type constant)? 14:57:23 jsnell: Does this mean I should use with-deadline when wrapping an I/O operation and with-timeout otherwise? That was what I thought I understood from the with-deadline documentation. 14:57:46 pkhuong: I recall that turning more things into constants during constraint propagation was a mixed blessing performancewise. 14:58:23 rpg: I think with-deadline was also supported for mutexes and perhaps spinlocks 14:59:07 jsnell: well, twice as many type checks ;) 14:59:40 mega1: but we do it in IR2... 14:59:56 jsnell: Trying to manage compatibility in code SBCL/ACL, where ACL uses with-timeout for both.... 15:00:08 pkhuong: sure, it was just a related data point 15:00:22 jsnell: IIUC it seems like there are cases where with-timeout will work and with-deadline won't. 15:00:29 -!- prg_ [n=prg@ns.alusht.net] has quit ["leaving"] 15:00:31 wrt performance of the generated code, I assume? 15:00:50 *mega1* has spent the last day hunting for bugs caused by with-timeout on allegro 15:01:01 pkhuong: yes 15:01:48 rpg: right, with-deadline wouldn't break out of (loop) 15:01:48 -!- langzeitstudent_ [n=teilzeit@p5B17E80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:02:00 Did you have a chance to try and figure out why? 15:02:30 jsnell: Is it possible to keep compatibility by translating ACL with-timeout into with-timeout around with-deadline? 15:04:12 Do the SMP changes in ACL 9.0 break standard Common Lisp code? The example provided in the SMP document indicate that it does. 15:04:25 *the changes do*. 15:04:35 really?! 15:04:46 tmh: url? 15:04:57 http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/current/doc/smp.htm 15:05:14 I'm looking at the example in section 1.1 15:05:14 tmh: all I could see was breakage in code that took advantage of implementation details in ACL's "threading". 15:05:31 Xach: http://www.franz.com/support/tech_corner/#smp071409 15:05:37 jordyd [n=jordy@76.108.123.3] has joined #lisp 15:05:57 rpg: I guess (not all that familiar with the deadline support), but I could still see that being unsafe under some circumstances 15:06:02 fe[nl]ix: I clicked through that to smp.htm 15:06:06 tmh: without-interrupts is not standard Common Lisp code 15:06:08 tmh: looks like they had a bizarre synchronisation hack before 15:06:13 certainly not normal CL 15:06:45 In the example, all they are using is INCF and DECF. Then go on to describe using INCF-ATOMIC, etc. 15:06:46 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@91.23.232.14] has joined #lisp 15:06:52 tmh: it also seems like you must explicitly introduce the multiple processes 15:07:04 tmh: I don't believe so. You need to have some layer on your own that would make portability anyway. This stuff will only work on ACL out of the box 15:07:31 tmh: right, mutating shared values across threads without synchronisation is a bad idea. But then you can't create threads in standard CL. 15:07:36 (an interesting coincidence, since jsnell is kindly helping me wrestle with multiprocessing portability across ACL and SBCL right now) 15:07:43 tmh: in the example they give the first version as a naive version which may break on either their old system or proper threading, then a version that worked on their old system, then a version that works on their new system 15:08:00 but the plain incf one wasn't guaranteed to work anywhere 15:08:50 I know you probably get this a lot, but I can't find the answer anywhere... Is there a way to compile Lisp so that I can execute it from the command-line? I'm using SBCL on Ubuntu 9.04 GNU/Linux, by the way. Thanks. 15:08:53 jsnell: I am just looking for something that will allow me to provide a macro that makes a timeout portably across ACL and SBCL. If on SBCL one needs to look into the body of a timeout construct to know what kind of timeout to apply, I may have to give this up. 15:08:54 mega1: why do we need pseudo-atomic around the slow path for allocation? 15:09:01 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 15:09:13 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 15:09:23 Ok, so this applies to code that is already within some parallel framework. I naively read through this and got the impression that somehow the SMP changes would apply to all code, which seemed a little disturbing. 15:09:42 jordyd: http://l1sp.org/sbcl/sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die 15:10:00 jordyd: either do it like any other scripting language (use some shell magic to fire up SBCL and --load the code) or use save-lisp-and-die to make an image. 15:10:14 -!- timor [n=martin@w4087.dip.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:10:14 rpg: sbcl supports --script as an option, too. 15:10:32 @Xach & rpg: Thanks! 15:10:38 I forget whether SBCL allows for hash-bang... Xach? 15:10:47 rpg: with --script. 15:10:50 it does. with sbcl --script. 15:10:50 pkhuong: it was due to copy-propagation if I recall correctly 15:11:14 jordyd: i'm curious...what will you do with your executable when you have it? 15:11:29 mega1: that'd only happen if we actually replaced the lvar to a constant value in an lvar used by a ref, though? 15:11:35 Xach: I want to run 'time' on it. 15:11:45 jordyd: why? 15:11:46 clhs time 15:11:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_time.htm 15:11:48 pkhuong: can't remember the details 15:11:52 k. 15:11:59 jordyd: as pkhuong hints, CL supports timing directly. 15:12:08 -!- kmels [n=kmels@190.148.195.36] has quit [] 15:12:19 jordyd: you can run a usually more interesting timing function in CL. 15:12:37 Quadre` [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has joined #lisp 15:12:48 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:07 pkhuong: How would I do that? 15:13:14 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:13:18 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 15:13:19 clhs time 15:13:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_time.htm 15:13:41 -!- Quadre` is now known as Quadrescence 15:13:54 Err, that link for me? 15:13:58 jsnell: I have code that very reliably locks up using with-timeout on SBCL. I will see if with-deadline fixes it. 15:14:50 Ah, OK. Thanks everyone. 15:16:20 jsnell: I note that bordeaux-threads also uses sb-ext:with-timeout as a way of implementing its with-timeout. It seems like you are saying that for managing input waits, this is A Bad Thing. Yes? 15:16:25 That ACL documentation is rather unclearly-written 15:17:04 I usually find that io with timeouts is the wrong thing to do. What is the attraction? 15:17:14 milanj [n=milan@77.46.219.172] has joined #lisp 15:17:39 Zhivago: I am attached to a pipeline. If the pipeline doesn't have anything to offer me, then I would like to use the processor to do some lower-priority tasks. 15:18:01 So, why not use an i/o scheduler, ala poll()? 15:18:05 you could try not blocking 15:18:29 poll/epoll/kqueue 15:18:36 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:18:36 -!- Jasko3 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:18:37 Zhivago: that seems like a very unpleasantly low-level thing to do in a high-level language. 15:18:51 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 15:18:59 rpg: you can wrap those fairly easy or use existing library 15:19:00 Asking something to schedule your i/o operations for you? 15:19:23 I kind of feel that trying to read and then giving up after an arbitrary amount of time is pretty unpleasantly low level 15:19:29 or spawn a thread to do the IO and talk to the computation with a message queue. 15:19:51 But then, I've always thought that 'low level' is a meaningless propaganda term. 15:20:18 Zhivago, xristos, pkhuong: What we have here is something very simple. Note that I don't give up on the pipeline --- I just turn the attention of the program to doing a bit of bookkeeping, and then return. 15:20:40 rpg: So, how long is your timeout for? 15:20:52 Zhivago: About 30 seconds. 15:21:05 So you sleep for 30 seconds when you could be doing something else? 15:21:16 Zhivago: Yes. It's not a problem. 15:21:19 Why not reduce the timeout to 0? 15:21:57 Zhivago: The pipeline is more important than the bookkeeping, and the bookkeeping takes about 30 seconds to (worst case) 60 seconds. 15:22:51 What I have here is a loop that is essentially a single-process, and so is very simple. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to keep that simplicity. 15:23:56 For another thing, this simple version works flawlessly on ACL, and the low-level scheduling operations are going to introduce much, much more cross-implementation compatibility issuses. 15:24:25 So, what this means is that your book-keeping will always mean that the pipeline doesn't get processed for 60-90 seconds. 15:24:39 ISTM that using threads is much simpler than faking non-blocking IO with timed polling. 15:24:54 Since you've waited for 30 seconds while it was idle before starting it. 15:25:10 Zhivago: Yes. And that's ok, because the bookkeeping must eventually be done. 15:25:44 -!- mld [n=user@90-224-13-4-no124.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:25:45 But, if you reduced the timeout to zero, you'd only need a 30-60 second gap. 15:26:05 Zhivago, pkhuong: actually what is done is more like loop until you read a fixed number of input items [UNLESS the read times out] then do bookkeeping then loop again. 15:26:40 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 15:27:04 Zhivago: That wouldn't actually help. The timeout just triggers the bookkeeping a little early if the pipeline goes idle. If we're not loaded, the lost seconds don't matter. 15:27:57 -!- jan247 [n=jan247@222.127.93.32] has quit [Client Quit] 15:28:09 (loop (loop read until read-items = threshold or timeout) (do-bookkeeping)) is reasonable pseudocode for this process. 15:29:36 willb [n=wibenton@compsci-wifi-39.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:29:38 As I said, it's a single-process to a first approximation, works flawlessly on ACL, and we are disinclined to modify it, except for the fact that it hangs sometimes on SBCL. 15:30:31 This means we are using the OS + the lisp as the message queue, instead of building one by hand... 15:31:11 which is fine if your messages are single bytes, since that's what the OS provides. 15:32:55 pkhuong: it's line-buffered, so this really isn't an issue. 15:32:59 carlocci [n=nes@93.37.219.207] has joined #lisp 15:33:25 rpg: why dont you use socket-make-stream and provide the timeout there 15:33:29 I'm not saying there's no point to doing this with a separate process in many situations, it's just that here it's overkill. 15:33:30 instead of with-timeout 15:33:34 JHVH [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:33:39 kmels [n=kmels@190.148.195.36] has joined #lisp 15:33:55 xristos: I didn't know that was possible. 15:35:56 haven't tried it myself but i don't see why it shouldn't work 15:38:36 The input is line-buffered and processed with read-line, BTW, which also makes this case much simpler. 15:39:39 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:39:50 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-125-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:41:06 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-243.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:42:15 At any rate, isn't my problem here essentially the same as that of any user of bordeaux-threads:with-timeout ? I.e., if there's blocking I/O in the body, bad things can occur? 15:42:44 Should bordeaux-threads be using a combination of with-deadline and with-timeout? Is that feasible? 15:43:06 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:43:23 it's not a matter of IO 15:43:43 with-timeout is fundamentally unsafe, whether there's io involved or not 15:44:34 the guts of sbcl try to handle the possibility of async unwinds gracefully, but there aren't any guarantees 15:45:03 IRCMonkey [n=chatzill@84.141.183.85] has joined #lisp 15:47:49 jsnell: Are there circumstances under which one can be confident that with-timeout will work ok? Or should we just try to avoid it? 15:49:28 no side-effects is sufficient 15:49:50 -!- IRCMonkey [n=chatzill@84.141.183.85] has quit [Client Quit] 15:51:02 jsnell: One more question, if I might --- if I have my line-buffered socket stream, and I wrap read-line in with-deadline, can that blow up badly? Will read-line be effectively atomic? 15:52:46 I don't think it'd be effectively atomic, just like with-timeout wouldn't be 15:53:25 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:29 jsnell: so bytes could actually be lost? Ouch. 15:54:28 I haven't looked at the code, but I'd be surprised if the deadline check wasn't at a lower level than read-line 15:55:44 jsnell: I will look more deeply. Thanks for the help. 15:56:45 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 15:57:16 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:58:20 -!- jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:01:38 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:02:55 jsnell: As far as I can tell, you are right about this. It looks like one could interrupt read-line in a state that might corrupt its buffering. 16:03:50 jsnell: Interestingly, I have stumbled across this because it fails reliably on Ubuntu (gets into a state where the with-timeout stops working and we get into a read-forever on a socket), but seems to work reliably on OpenSUSE. 16:04:10 jsnell: Possible confound: uniprocessor Ubuntu vs. SMP OpenSUSE. 16:04:52 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:04:55 it wouldn't be horribly surprising if it were a function of the system libraries 16:04:57 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 16:05:18 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:05:20 since fd reads will ultimately be handled through the ffi 16:06:00 and random C code might not be all that happy to be unwound from an arbitrary location 16:08:20 jsnell: Yes, but I wouldn't have thought modern Ubuntu and modern OpenSUSE would be that different. 16:08:56 At any rate, I must go off now. Thank you very much, jsnell, pkhuong and xristos. You have given me a lot to think about. 16:10:01 -!- fusss [i=73802ace@gateway/web/freenode/x-1b8e5d8659d2a459] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 16:10:37 I will have a first look at the :timeout option on make-socket-stream. Perhaps that can be forced into service. 16:11:55 -!- asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [Success] 16:12:11 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 16:15:02 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 16:20:51 ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 16:22:18 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:26 asksol [n=ask@247.243.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:24:32 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:27:43 clhs 3.4.1.5 16:27:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_dae.htm 16:27:44 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@12.154.71.10] has quit [] 16:28:50 "&aux variable processing is analogous to let* processing." How is &aux different from let* processing? 16:29:22 tmh: it's in the lambda list? 16:30:33 pkhuong: Sure. My experience is that whenever there are 2 mechanisms that appear equivalent in CL, they are actually not redundant, but different and useful in some subtle and important way. 16:30:45 Fishy_Work [n=chatzill@l03784.gsfc.nasa.gov] has joined #lisp 16:31:00 I just am not seeing it in this case, other than saving yourself a level of indentation. 16:31:16 -!- Fishy_Work [n=chatzill@l03784.gsfc.nasa.gov] has left #lisp 16:31:17 Sometimes all you get is a lambda list; defstruct's constructor option, for instance. 16:32:07 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:32:58 fusss [i=73800463@gateway/web/freenode/x-de6b90332133b242] has joined #lisp 16:33:09 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-10-184.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:33:12 why on earth can't sbcl take :test arguments for make-hash-table? 16:33:30 fusss: huh? 16:33:47 (defvar *class-db* (make-hash-table :test #'(lambda (x y) (string-equal (symbol-name x) (symbol-name y)))) 16:33:50 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-125-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:34:10 I built on LW and it works fine, just can't deploy on the damn server. 16:34:16 fusss: that is not standard CL. 16:34:18 fusss: that's not supported, rtfs. 16:34:37 It's also very lossy logic-wise, since you never specified any hash function. 16:34:43 Kickaha [n=jadawin@bl4-159-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:34:54 o bloody hell 16:35:01 i need that functionality 16:35:07 genhash to the rescue 16:35:16 what is that? 16:35:17 And that's where you can either use GENHASH, or RTFM and see that sbcl now supports custom hash/equality functions. 16:35:41 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:36:13 Heh, boa constructor 16:36:15 i am gonna have to install LW on my SO's machine :-( this sucks 16:37:05 You could also wrap gethash to extract and upcase the symbols' names. 16:37:59 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-165.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:00 pkhuong: good point 16:38:15 *fusss* has been hacking since 9AM this morning. it's 2:40AM now :-/ 16:38:16 I've been strangled by my code, it contained a boa constructor. *rim shot* 16:38:51 tmh: you will enjoy CLtL2 then. running gag ahoy! 16:39:11 tmh: yeah, I liked that one too 16:40:03 levy [n=levy@apn-94-44-11-166.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 16:40:24 hali 16:40:33 end of the C++/Java week... huh 16:40:34 pkhuong: my gethash was already wrapped :-P 16:41:06 what's boa constructor? 16:41:19 "by order of arguments" 16:41:26 clhs 3.4.6 16:41:26 clhs defstruct 16:41:27 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_df.htm 16:41:27 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defstr.htm 16:42:00 stassats`: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boa_constrictor 16:42:02 ok, boa lambda lists i knew 16:42:54 -!- itze [n=itze@77-22-106-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 16:43:47 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 16:45:13 -!- ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47:29 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:47:42 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslet106.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:51:19 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:51:34 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:04 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #lisp 16:55:13 this is really horrible :-/ 16:55:18 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:55:33 Quadre` [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has joined #lisp 16:55:59 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:56:18 -!- Quadre` is now known as Quadrescence 16:56:51 i am gonna be forced to use linux and sbcl it seems 16:57:02 that's not so terrible 16:57:12 *Xach* finds it pretty unterrible 16:57:35 i need skype and gotomeeting 16:57:42 you get me those an i will use Xenix 16:57:55 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 16:58:13 skype on linux is terrible 16:58:35 Even under wine? 16:59:08 Of course, the guy I'm collaborating with over skype is on Vista. It is terrible there as well. 16:59:24 nyef: Haven't tried it with wine. Have to look into that. 16:59:27 Try talking him into using ekiga or something? 17:00:48 nyef: I've not even suggested it because he uses skype with everyone else he consults with. 17:01:06 zophy-ng [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:43 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:02:15 Fair enough. 17:02:41 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 17:02:47 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-10-184.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:02:57 tmh: I've found skype on linux to work rather well 17:03:48 hmm, my slime repl gets very slow with thousands of lines of output. is there a setting or option i can turn off that makes it faster? 17:04:18 *Xach* doesn't think he has presentations enabled 17:04:38 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:55 fe[nl]ix: Yeah, I may generalized a bit. I'm on RHEL and can't get the gstreamer video hack to work because Red Hat sees fit not to include the necessary gstreamer plugins for it work. 17:05:12 When I execute (save-lisp-and-die "/home/jordy/Desktop/prime" :executable t), the lisp debugger says: "Cannot save core with multiple threads running." Am I calling this function incorrectly? 17:05:34 jordyd: yes. don't call it when you have threads running. 17:05:54 Xach: How do I know I have threads running? And how do I stop them? 17:05:58 jordyd: when i want to save-lisp-and-die, i write a short program that loads everything i need, then does save-lisp-and-die at the end. then i do sbcl --load that-script.lisp 17:06:19 sb-thread:list-all-threads 17:06:30 Xach: I'll try that. 17:06:38 stassats: Thanks. 17:06:39 jordyd: if you're using slime, you're probably using multiple threads. it's best to save-lisp-and-die very early, not from an interactive development session. 17:06:58 Xach: Yes, I am using slime. 17:07:17 a bare slime with nothing but cl-user has five threads running. 17:07:25 carbocalm [n=user@64.40.185.82] has joined #lisp 17:07:58 here's a script i wrote a little while ago to make an executable. 17:08:27 Xach pasted "boxoffice" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83756 17:08:52 oops, that got wrapped 17:09:44 hmm, looks like it also has some stuff that wasn't really needed. anyway, there's some non-polished code that made me an executable :) 17:09:50 -!- zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:10:15 Xach: Thanks. 17:11:07 Fade: that depends on the communication style 17:13:38 -!- fusss [i=73800463@gateway/web/freenode/x-de6b90332133b242] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 17:14:19 -!- Reav___ [n=Reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Success] 17:14:42 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 17:14:43 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-fee448d6632e8a92] has joined #lisp 17:15:32 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E44FD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:35 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has quit [] 17:16:37 jordyd: i use that to update http://xach.com/moviecharts/2009.html weekly 17:17:01 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:18:50 -!- Posterdati [n=tapioca@host111-214-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:19:32 Posterdati [n=tapioca@host254-13-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:22:01 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@93-36-2-203.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 17:23:53 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:04 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:27:12 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 17:29:10 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:15 levy_ [n=levy@apn-94-44-12-7.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 17:29:21 -!- levy [n=levy@apn-94-44-11-166.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:30:52 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.163.212.113] has joined #lisp 17:31:33 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E45403.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:31:57 rpg [n=rpg@75-146-46-193-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:53 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:11 Back around ILC'09 I heard about a new paper that was coming out soon on Lisp & design patterns... it was going to be presented at a conference, but wasn't online yet. I know this is a little vague, but does anyone know any more about this. I can't for the life of me remember who the author was. 17:36:36 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.219.172] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:37:39 fusss [i=73800463@gateway/web/freenode/x-8f82e449c7fbc745] has joined #lisp 17:39:07 jsnell: May I ask a follow-up question: would it be reasonable, in the best of all possible worlds, to modify read-line so that, in the event of a timeout condition, it would save its state (unread stuff that had gone into its internal data structures)? 17:39:57 milanj [n=milan@93.87.180.20] has joined #lisp 17:40:28 hello lisp 17:41:03 hello cow 17:41:04 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:42:29 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:46:13 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.163.212.113] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:46:33 -!- jordyd [n=jordy@76.108.123.3] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:47:00 i think it's just wiser to use on implementation across platforms 17:47:11 i can't even make sense of sbcl errors anymore 17:48:22 it takes me about 2 weeks to get the hang on some implementation. i couldn't stand sbcl when i was on cmucl; the slightest difference in message text/formatting annoyed me. 17:49:02 fuss indeed? 17:49:28 yeah 17:49:53 i have been on LW for the ~4 months and i am stuck there 17:50:00 postamar [n=postamar@76-10-168-250.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:13 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@88.208.105.1] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:51:30 mrSpec [n=NoOne@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 17:51:44 LW interface is very subtle, but if you bang on a few keys accidently a few times, you will start to figure it out. you can press me M-. anywhere on the screen and it finds defenitions. it does auto-complession in every buffer. 17:52:03 so does slim? 17:52:06 e 17:52:08 for macro-generated functions, i do (ed 'foo) and i can edit them 17:52:56 macros or functions? 17:53:04 slime is way way more powerful the LW, but LW does things .. well, in its own way 17:53:30 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [] 17:53:56 stassats`: functions and methods 17:54:35 you tell it like slime can't do that 17:54:50 Xach: (setf swank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* t swank::*dedicated-output-stream-buffering* :full) ;; or :line, or even :none 17:54:58 Xach: in your ~/.swank.lisp 17:55:31 stassats`: slime does it with much noise and boasting. slime looks like a C&C panel from a sci-fi film. 17:55:37 tcr: ok, thanks. how does that help emacs go faster? 17:55:52 if i opened it public people would think i am hacking (sic) 17:55:54 fusss: well, the same (ed 'foo), what's wrong? 17:56:23 dedicated output stream is much faster 17:56:32 this isn't really for output 17:56:36 it's slow when i'm typing. 17:56:36 stassats`: is it possible that LW is similar to hemlock? 17:56:54 where? 17:56:59 does it speed up some round-trip or something? 17:57:05 fusss: The CCL IDE is similar to Hemlock ;) 17:57:17 Xach: Oh make sure to be on HEAD 17:57:22 Xach: typing at the repl? 17:57:34 if yes, do what tcr just said 17:57:38 Xach: stassats` fixed some issue 17:58:03 jordyd [n=jordy@c-76-108-123-3.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:30 ok 17:58:44 yeah, typing at the repl with say ~10k lines in the buffer gets very sluggish 17:59:00 yeah, that's it 17:59:03 Yeah there was some issue making it search backwards through the whole buffer 17:59:11 instead of just a few hundreds line 17:59:18 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:59:46 -!- Kickaha [n=jadawin@bl4-159-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["leaving"] 18:01:05 thanks 18:01:15 sellout: what's the state of the union wrt linux and win32? ccl linux binaries said they needed (SSE3)? 18:01:55 sse2 18:02:16 One of the reason why the output buffering scheme is so slow is because there's an auto-flush-threads which invokes finish-output on the slime streams all 0.3, or 0.2secs which will only send a chunk over the wire. So yeah when there's really lots of output that's going to be slow. I do not know why the auto-flush-thread is needed, and why finish-output is not issued elsewhere, and whether that's actually what causes the slowness. 18:02:32 It's just something I glanced at a few weeks ago and was wondering about 18:02:43 4AM! good nite all 18:03:31 fusss: Should work well on both ... you have an x86 without SSE2? 18:03:50 Xach: It's also wise to issue C-c M-o once upon the time on the REPL. This will also clear the presentation caches. 18:04:16 there should be auto-clear feature 18:04:19 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 18:04:35 Yeah it's going to come. I've implemented one 18:05:12 tcr: i don't use presentations. i use C-c M-o to temporarily fix the size issue. 18:05:44 -!- fusss [i=73800463@gateway/web/freenode/x-8f82e449c7fbc745] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 18:06:07 Yeah me too... the caches are actually weak hash-tables on SBCL so they shouldn't occupy too much memory 18:06:24 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:06:35 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:06:39 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:06:52 -!- joshe [n=joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:07:03 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest36007 18:08:44 joshe [n=joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 18:08:46 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:10:34 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:12:05 moghar [n=user@157.185.jawnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:12:17 -!- dys` is now known as dys 18:13:28 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:15:16 -!- Guest36007 [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 18:17:07 Jasko3 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:46 Anybody got commonqt running on Ubuntu? 18:17:57 I'm having trouble compiling smoke. 18:18:12 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:46 -!- gko [n=gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:18:49 luis pasted "error building smoke" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83758 18:19:26 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:19:29 ugh, pasted the same thing twice. 18:20:55 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-165.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:23:43 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:29:22 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:30:03 what's the easiest way to get a list of bindings for a list of argument values and another list of argument names (a lambda list with &key, &rest, ...)? 18:30:38 i could surely use eval, but that seems weird 18:30:40 -!- jordyd [n=jordy@c-76-108-123-3.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:30:56 example? 18:34:01 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 18:34:06 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:35:29 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:39:21 ruediger [n=ruediger@91-115-30-82.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:40:52 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:28 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 18:45:41 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:45:55 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:46:02 -!- postamar [n=postamar@76-10-168-250.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 18:46:08 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 18:48:20 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.179.15] has quit ["Leaving..."] 18:48:32 -!- Jasko3 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:49:12 say lambda list is '(a &rest args &key (b nil b?)) 18:49:33 arguments is (list 1 :b 2) 18:51:00 the function would return ((a . 1) (b . 2) (b? t) (args . '(:b 2))) 18:51:31 both the value and the lambda list are arguments 18:57:00 luis: Don't know about Ubuntu, but on Debian, "apt-file search FindKDE4Internal.cmake" tells me that the package is kdelibs5-dev. 18:57:46 (doesn't Ubuntu have a smoke binary package that matches what commonqt needs by now?) 18:58:42 olafk [n=olaf@82.113.121.22] has joined #lisp 19:00:17 I used commonqt on Ubuntu a few weeks (months?) ago 19:01:34 -!- olafk [n=olaf@82.113.121.22] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:02:06 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 19:02:18 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-68-222.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:03:13 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-1-151.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:04:37 kjbrock_ [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:19 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:07:48 hezy [n=hezy@62.56.254.225] has joined #lisp 19:08:24 -!- rdd [n=user@83.250.157.93] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:09:03 *lichtblau* sets up http://gitorious.org/qthemlock 19:12:47 -!- kjbrock_ [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:14:45 lichtblau: btw. named-readtables work on symbol-basis, not just string-basis. So I personally use package:syntax as readtable-names 19:16:48 hello. googling i found http://www.cliki.net/SHALLOW-COPY-ARRAY is this part of any (standard) library of common lisp? 19:17:06 trebor_dki: alexandria:copy-array 19:17:16 tcr: oh. good to know! 19:17:17 -!- carbocalm [n=user@64.40.185.82] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:20:03 nostoi [n=nostoi@26.Red-79-156-52.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:28 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:21:27 bwat74 [n=bwat@host-90-232-121-127.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:21:38 tcr: thanks. seems what i need (now an in future ;) - unfortunately -> darcl: command not found (not root here) - can you provide an alternative dl-link? 19:21:49 *darcs 19:23:15 darcs just uses http to download .. a recursive wget should work 19:23:56 *trebor_dki* doing wget 19:24:14 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:26:10 benny` [n=benny@i577A29BA.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:27:23 robsynnot [n=irchon@87-198-231-166.ptr.magnet.ie] has joined #lisp 19:27:23 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2C29.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:27:55 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:32 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 19:28:58 -!- robsynnot [n=irchon@87-198-231-166.ptr.magnet.ie] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:33:28 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:34:01 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:35:16 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:37:02 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@26.Red-79-156-52.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 19:38:01 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:41:08 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:43:24 is it possible to add a :component (alexandria ;) dynamically (runtime)? or do i have to recompile all? 19:43:47 (adding to defsystem) 19:44:28 well, you can load alexandria dynamically 19:45:26 stassats`: do you mean by loading/compiling the lisp-files - or by calling an asdf-command? 19:45:50 asdf:load-op, though i don't know what you are up to 19:49:18 stassats`: i am not into asdf. till now all did was using ,load-system in slime to handle the defsystem-thing. if i do so my data gets lost. 19:49:41 well, get into 19:52:27 *tmh* chants Get It To Work Then Profile If Required 19:52:33 to himself 19:57:36 loxs[] [n=loxs@82.137.72.32] has joined #lisp 19:57:49 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 19:59:50 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 20:02:16 *trebor_dki* scanned http://constantly.at/lisp/asdf/ but i am not sure what happens if i change defsystem at runtim and do a asd:load-op. - all changed files will be recompiled and evaluated, right? 20:03:20 why don't you check it out? 20:03:42 i do not want to loose the data - it took 1.5 hours to compute them. 20:05:06 sorry, for sure i have to create a test.asd in an extra emacs. 20:05:41 1.5 hours is a good opportunity to drink some tea 20:10:23 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 20:11:19 what do you want to loose them upon? 20:11:34 *tmh* *chuckles* 20:13:02 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 20:14:45 -!- hezy [n=hezy@62.56.254.225] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:15:10 cadabra [n=cadabra@17.224.12.65] has joined #lisp 20:16:39 *trebor_dki* mumbles, it seems for him to need > 1 hour to include an foreign asd into his defsystem (only had .lisp components till now) - must reread this manual again 20:17:30 trebor_dki: Is the data in a format that you could write it to a file and then read it back in? 20:17:40 easily 20:17:51 -!- peddie [n=matthew@67.169.49.37] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:18:27 not really. 20:20:13 i am in the middle of playing with some algorithms ... easiest would be to just copy the copy-array into a lisp file of mine. 20:21:01 but then i still am unable to use lisp-libs 20:21:19 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:21:41 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 20:22:28 I think it would be worth your time to learn to manage a running lisp image. You should be able to load ASDF into the image without effecting your other stuff and then load whatever relies on ASDF. 20:23:07 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:31 i am trying, but it feels like a mismatch between my brain and the words in the manual. - i'll try :depends-on ( ....) 20:26:04 trebor_dki: http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html is something i wrote to help you get started 20:26:06 *stassats`* doesn't quite get the problem 20:27:26 josemanuel [n=josemanu@194.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:27:37 thanks Xach - reading 20:29:02 hmm, anyone know if Eric Naggum had a family, and if so, if anyone of the will be maintaining http://naggum.no ? 20:29:08 *of them 20:29:20 kpreid [n=kpreid@12.154.71.10] has joined #lisp 20:29:44 Nope, he was grown in a lab. 20:29:57 stassats`: i do use asdf - i think - like a Makefile for lisp. till now i have several lisp-files. adding alexandria (a separate package including its own .asd) seems different to me. 20:32:12 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:36 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@194.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 20:34:50 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:34:51 tic_ [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:37:07 trebor_dki: is the system you want to load installed? 20:37:19 -!- jao [n=jao@52.Red-83-43-32.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:37:46 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:38:25 serichsen: you mean, i should have used asdf-install to install alexandria? - no, i just downloaded it. i do not have used any registry-stuff till now, too. 20:38:45 that doesn't matter 20:38:49 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44aa22.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:39:11 what do you mean by installed? 20:39:30 that it's on your computer, and that asdf can find it 20:39:43 you got a wrong model of ASDF in your head 20:40:08 it is on my computer, i do not know if asdf can find it. 20:40:47 what happens if you do (require 'alexandria)? 20:40:50 -!- younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:40:56 trebor_dki: did you read the link Xach provided? 20:41:33 serichsen: it fails. 20:41:51 stassats`: yes, but i felt, like it didn't match my case. 20:42:13 tmh: oh, you know what I mean 20:42:38 it'd be a shame if it disappeared in a year when the domain expires or something 20:43:13 i hoped to do the same to alexandria.asd in :depends-on as i do with my lisp files - providing a :path and a :file so that asdf finds the defsystem... but obviously this is wrong 20:43:21 mathrick: There was a thread covering this on c.l.l. I didn't follow it, I'm just assuming that someone will take care of it. 20:43:28 trebor_dki: then you will have to tell asdf the location of alexandria.asd 20:43:37 Jasko3 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:51 serichsen: that is what i am after. 20:44:19 trebor_dki: (push #p"/path/to/alexandria/" asdf:*central-registry*) 20:45:12 trebor_dki: note the trailing slash ----^ 20:45:25 tmh: ah, I haven't been following cll in a while 20:45:28 that is what i feared of - the /registry/ 20:45:38 ? 20:46:08 mathrick: yeah, not missing much, but every once in a while, there is a nugget that's worth reading. 20:46:24 tmh: oh, I like cll, I just don't have the time to keep up 20:46:45 trebor_dki: don't be afraid, it is just a list of directories 20:47:31 or use one directory and put symlinks into it 20:47:44 younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:47:45 serichsen: i hoped to avoid this registry thing, because i do not know where to place this command, so that it will work on all pc's i am working on. do i put this into my .asd file? 20:47:48 -!- tic_ [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["leaving"] 20:47:49 asdf is really simple 20:47:59 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:48:15 can i use relative path-names? 20:49:12 -!- alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:49:14 using SLIME asdf is even simpler.. (for loading libraries) 20:50:19 trebor_dki: put this into your lisp configuration file, like ~/.sbclrc 20:50:34 asdf is really simple <-- it isn't 20:50:44 the typical asdf operation is fairly simple 20:50:48 mathrick: no it is 20:50:50 asdf itself is anything but 20:51:47 for simple projects use :serial t, then just list the files in order of dependency 20:51:48 stassats`: no it isn't. I've tried extending it once, or actually just finding the way to use the supposedly standard extension to have wild modules, and by God, it's not simple at all 20:51:57 mathrick: no it is! 20:52:03 stassats`: details! 20:52:16 explain how it is simple 20:52:44 It is simple for simple things. Extending it of cource things get more complicated 20:53:09 mathrick: i don't think trebor_dki is somewhere near extending asdf 20:53:17 heh 20:53:30 i hoped to keep all things in version-controll-systems, so that if i check-out and do a ,load-system everything just works ... - .sbclrc would be implementation-dependent and pc-dependent ... it is not a good idea to compute the path in myproject.asd? 20:53:32 stassats`: umm, you'll notice how I said it was simple for typical usage 20:53:43 but that's *very* different from saying it's simple 20:53:46 because it isn't 20:53:52 trebor_dki: usually, knowing where to find a library _is_ pc dependent 20:54:17 trebor_dki: please try not to use ... instead of a fullstop. It makes it very hard to read things 20:55:02 mathrick: sure. 20:55:02 Fare: ping 20:55:08 pong 20:55:41 trebor_dki: don't bother about users, threw 'em a bunch of .asd files, let them deal with where to put it on their own 20:55:52 trebor_dki: but yeah, the paths depend on the particular machine, so you can't really hope to precompute them 20:55:53 AVE FELIX 20:56:43 Fare: can you make a list of operations that run-program should do ? 20:57:32 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:57:47 I started once 20:58:00 but it expands with time 20:59:26 s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-160-160-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:30 dup2 close fchdir setreuid setregid signal setsid setpgid tcsetpgrp chroot mount... 20:59:51 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-130-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:59:51 mount? 21:00:07 younder: that's a very specific use, indeed. 21:00:34 Fare: I mean the logical operations: redirect FDs, use custom environment, etc ... 21:00:46 when before you chroot, you use mount to share SOME files and directories of your choice 21:00:53 jao [n=jao@52.Red-83-43-32.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:03 dup2 and close are to share FDs 21:01:18 shuffle them, and stop sharing 21:01:23 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:01:37 then there's all the rest of the process state, and it's messy 21:01:42 so symlinks would be the easiest way to do it? is it a bad idea to put the sym-link into the directory of the project (*default-pathname-defaults*)? 21:01:44 -!- JHVH [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Operation timed out] 21:01:46 I'm probably forgetting stuff 21:01:56 and the list probably grows with time. 21:03:07 trebor_dki: i'd say it is 21:04:31 JHVH [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:05:23 first or latter? 21:05:59 the latter 21:06:25 fe[nl]ix, the FD shuffling is what will require the most headache if you're not going to execve right afterwards. 21:06:39 what are you trying to solve? just make some directory where you would put symlinks and push it into central registry 21:06:54 but I suppose for a run-program, we can assume it's OK 21:07:21 -!- kmels is now known as kmels-away 21:07:38 masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has joined #lisp 21:07:58 as for chroot, mount, tcsetpgrp, setsid, etc. -- you can assume a command utility can be called as a wrapper, like /usr/sbin/chroot or /usr/bin/setsid etc. 21:08:37 so that leaves FD shuffling, (f)chdir, (RE)UID/GID setting, signal masking. 21:09:49 trebor_dki: look at the current contents of asdf:*central-registry*. Is there an entry with "/home/trebor/.sbcl/systems/" or (MERGE-PATHNAMES ".sbcl/systems/" (USER-HOMEDIR-PATHNAME))? 21:11:09 *Fare* is glad that xcvb has a show-search-path command to help you debug these situations 21:11:55 -!- s0ber [i=pie@114-45-233-64.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:13:11 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@91.23.232.14] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:13:56 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17E80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:18 serichsen: the merged-one, yes 21:16:15 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:23 -!- bwat74 [n=bwat@host-90-232-121-127.mobileonline.telia.com] has left #lisp 21:19:13 trebor_dki: that is the directory where you are typically meant to put symlinks 21:19:14 *trebor_dki* got it working both ways, once per symlinking into the project-directory and once by symlinking into ~/.sbcl/systems 21:20:04 -!- Jasko3 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:20:22 and lost his data 21:21:34 drewc: here-p 21:23:28 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17E80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:23:58 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17E80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:15 doh. 1.0.30 released with a known (obscure) bug. 21:27:32 which bug is that? 21:27:53 -!- rpg [n=rpg@75-146-46-193-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [] 21:28:25 the one reported by eric marsden. That's actually two bugs, but I'm fairly certain the worse that can happen is failed AVERs. 21:28:54 I can smell a 1.0.30.1 coming soon, then. 21:29:15 yes. I'll probably have to run to a coffee shop to commit. 21:30:15 serichse1 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-156-172.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:30:36 pkhuong: You work on sbcl? 21:31:15 it's my #1 way to procrastinate. 21:31:27 thank you stassats`, serichsen for your patience. i tried to avoid things which are not avoidable (and maybe do not harm ;) 21:31:43 hehe, nice - I wouldn't mind checking the source of sbcl sometime. 21:33:02 pkhuong, thanks for your procrastination! 21:34:44 Procrastination -> http://www.despair.com/proc24x30pri.html 21:36:32 binaryguy [n=binarygu@host86-150-248-6.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:39:22 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has left #lisp 21:39:24 macdice [n=user@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:39:34 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 21:41:46 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:44:25 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-157-158.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:46:26 -!- macdice [n=user@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:46:37 macdice [n=user@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:47:10 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["[BX] Get your free warez from ftp://127.0.0.1!"] 21:47:51 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:03 -!- ``Erik [n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org] has quit ["leaving"] 21:48:11 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 21:49:11 pkhuong: whatever motivates you, makes my sbcl happy 21:52:47 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["brb"] 21:52:57 postamar [n=postamar@206-248-158-65.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:00 teilzeitstudent_ [n=teilzeit@p5B17E80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:11 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17E80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:56:37 question: in the emacs lisp manual, on the topic of plists-versus-hashtables, it says that for "a few tens of items" (which i take to be n<=30 21:56:39 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:45 that plists are actually faster. 21:57:00 dto: it wouldn't be hard to actually test that. 21:57:01 anyone know, what is N for SBCL? 21:57:06 see above 21:57:12 time how long a hashtable lookup takes 21:57:12 dto: it isn't hard to check 21:57:18 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:57:18 then time the worstcase plist lookup 21:57:25 i remember something around 11 21:57:26 how do i time something in CL? 21:57:26 dto: around a dozen items iirc. 21:57:27 then consider how often you'll be using the worstcase 21:57:34 ,clhs time 21:57:37 clhs time 21:57:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_time.htm 21:57:41 pkhuong: wow. thanks. i will make the appropriate change. 21:57:41 tarbo_ [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 21:57:54 pkhuong: this will definitely result in a speed improvement 21:58:02 dto: time it as well just to be sure! 21:58:04 and for fun. 21:58:06 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:09 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:58:25 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:55 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 21:59:00 ok, you've won me over... i will go for empirical data 21:59:01 if it's for your object system, it might pay off to try and implement a smarter custom dictionary. 21:59:09 pkhuong: like what? 21:59:16 the keys are :keywords 21:59:48 case? ncase? 22:00:06 see recent posts at http://planet.lisp.org 22:00:51 fields are dynamically added/removed and stuff. 22:00:55 i don't think i could use CASE. 22:00:56 if you have many tables with the same set of keys (derived from the same parent table), it may be worth it to try and find a (nearly-) perfect hash function. 22:01:05 hmm. 22:01:13 well let me try hashtables first. 22:01:22 i realized some prototypes are having 30 or 40 slotsw 22:02:28 you'd have to find a new one each time there's a collision, etc., but if there aren't too many sets of slots, slowing down the insertion of slots to make the usually more common operations of getting/setting values faster makes sense. 22:03:21 -!- tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:04:29 pkhuong: i'm almost done modifying CLON for hash-tables. i anticipated possibly doing this so I factored it out 22:04:54 pkhuong: if my keys are symbols, can i use 'eq as the test for the hash-table? 22:05:01 yes. 22:05:05 sweet. 22:05:40 This applies for any "interned" data structure. 22:06:01 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:07:25 what is interned? 22:07:41 ok. let's see if this results in a speedup. or if it even works :) 22:08:01 More-or-less, having a print-read consistency that preserves object identity. 22:08:42 eq hashing is evil, it makes CL hashtables use way too much memory. :( 22:10:15 For example, I have a GUID library for SBCL that uses a weak hash table keyed on the integer representation of a GUID to keep track of GUID objects. Whenever I "naturalize" a GUID from outside, I always end up with EQ objects for the same 128-bit GUID value. 22:10:33 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 22:10:46 neat :) 22:10:53 want to see what i'm working on ? 22:11:15 And I have them print readably as #.(intern-guid "..."), for suitable values of "...". 22:12:08 jan247 [n=jan247@222.127.93.32] has joined #lisp 22:12:34 Smarter AI for your roguelike? 22:15:22 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:15:48 nyef: all data access was in these plists 22:16:13 so this is mainly a speedup, but i have other improvements. want to see it on youtube? 22:16:20 Sure. 22:16:22 the game is slightly slow right now 22:16:55 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeZ2uCG8Mk0 22:16:58 with voiceover 22:18:03 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:14 Music and sound effects, too? 22:19:19 yup 22:19:20 Neat! 22:19:21 :) 22:19:28 ugh, i'm a little stuck 22:19:40 -!- alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:21:19 I see you're using SDL. Do I remember rightly that you were originally using CLX? 22:21:45 alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:10 nope. i used clx for a non-game project, but used sdl from the beginning with this. 22:22:18 Ah, okay. 22:22:34 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:24:52 no wonder it's slow, it's spewing all over the slime repl, the slowest thing know to man. 22:26:59 using dedicated output stream is quite fast 22:27:15 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has joined #lisp 22:29:31 -!- Hun [n=hun@80.153.55.38] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:31:33 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:32:02 ok i blitzed my /var/cache/common-lisp-controller cache, but now it is complaining it can't find ~/.sbcl/systems/rlx.asd ? i never touched the file. 22:33:23 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 22:33:24 whoa. did that directory have symlinks into random places? 22:33:25 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:33:36 my rlx dir is suddenly gone. 22:33:45 hi sykopomp 22:34:01 dto: I believe most people here avoid clc. 22:34:03 dto: best solution : avoid common-lisp-controller 22:34:03 never mess with CLC 22:34:30 uuuuuuuuugh 22:34:35 i have to check this out again. 22:35:37 it'd be nice if someone figured out how to package lisp stuff for debian without CLC. 22:36:00 coffee. brb 22:36:13 wow, my game takes a while to check out 22:37:26 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 22:37:31 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Client Quit] 22:37:38 dto: gfx? or real code? 22:39:56 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:40:40 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:41:54 i'm quite sure it's the music. 22:42:02 there are 4 or 5 oggsa 22:42:03 ogss 22:42:06 o g g s 22:42:08 :) 22:42:10 -!- asksol [n=ask@247.243.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:42:15 i'm typing in an odd position. brb 22:43:03 -!- willb [n=wibenton@compsci-wifi-39.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:43:16 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@g229236175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 22:46:11 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17E80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:30 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 22:47:35 ThomasIl [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 22:48:07 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:49:54 hi 22:52:42 madnificent: poke 22:52:43 sykopomp, memo from rpg: given that we are already running till 10 or after starting at 6, I'm not sure we can start later (esp since the cafe will throw us out by 11). 22:53:21 minion: memo for rpg: That makes sense. Disregard that, then :) P.S. - How was the meeting? 22:53:22 Remembered. I'll tell rpg when he/she/it next speaks. 22:53:59 asdf25 [n=jeff@pool-173-79-228-102.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:13 madnificent: I hooked up sykobot to google's translation API and made an automatic interpreter. You can get it to listen to every line a particular person speaks and automatically translate it into a target language. 22:54:51 s/I/we/ (someone else wrote a good chunk of the module) 22:59:05 -!- alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:59:44 phew, i'd better learn a foreign language 23:00:45 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:02:35 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-36-239.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:03:02 -!- gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:03:03 sykopomp: i'm making some speedups to rlx 23:03:12 dto: oh? 23:03:13 -!- teilzeitstudent_ [n=teilzeit@p5B17E80E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:03:25 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.66] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:03:26 sykopomp: i'm switching CLON's main data structure to the hash table. 23:03:45 i realized that the most-often-used prototype had like 30 fields 23:04:02 and that for SBCL once you have more than about a dozen items 23:04:08 it's slower to use a plist. 23:05:13 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:05:20 dto: I thought you already used tables for CLON... 23:05:26 your objects are structs, right? 23:06:18 yes but the field collection has been a plist, and will now be a hash, if i can fix this weird bug 23:08:11 sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:44 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [] 23:11:52 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 23:15:26 -!- masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:17:42 dto: msg me if you make a video of the faster game (or say so in #lispgames), I'm eager to see the difference 23:17:50 madnificent: i will 23:18:20 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@17.224.12.65] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:19:20 i'm stuck on an unrelated bug now. 23:20:02 -!- sellout [n=greg@24.128.50.176] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:20:42 -!- macdice [n=user@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:21:06 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:21:07 -!- mdavid [n=mdavid@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:21:08 ziggurat [n=quassel@pool-96-226-117-126.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:27 hm .. any ps users here? the newer parenscript versions actually suggest one use: (slot-value (slot-value event 'current-target) 'value) instead of event.current-target.value or am i missing something...? i might as well go back to (concatenace 'string ...) :/ 23:23:18 -!- postamar [n=postamar@206-248-158-65.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:23:50 ..maybe it makes sense in more complex scenarios 23:25:43 postamar [n=postamar@206-248-158-65.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:58 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@84.131.232.1] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:32:01 sounds like they're trying to make ps more like cl and have fewer odd special cases 23:32:11 yeah 23:37:47 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:39:24 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 23:40:52 madnificent: works now! and it is noticeable more responsive. 23:40:57 noticeably* 23:41:43 madnificent: also starts up more quickly now too 23:41:51 but that's from another change 23:41:54 -!- ziggurat [n=quassel@pool-96-226-117-126.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:44:05 -!- postamar [n=postamar@206-248-158-65.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:45:19 dto: working on the roguelikes? 23:45:35 yep 23:45:42 i've merged them into one roguelike. 23:45:45 postamar [n=postamar@206-248-158-65.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:46:18 cool. 23:50:16 want to see the video? 23:50:20 i pasted the link abovbe 23:50:22 above 23:50:29 optikalmouse [n=user@bas1-toronto10-1279555750.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:50:47 has anyone built a custom SAX handler with CXML? 23:50:53 I'm getting confused by the docs :/ 23:53:06 optikalmouse: the day when docs stop confusing you, you will be able to fix lispm's by banging the users with manual and rebooting the machine 23:55:18 fucking programmers, all hack hack hack but barely any *good* doc writing :/ 23:57:49 Qadosh [n=q@unaffiliated/qodosh] has joined #lisp 23:57:58 anyway, I'm confused because I'm reading through the sample handlers 23:58:05 and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong :/ 23:58:30 the problem is not with programmers hackity hacking, but with the fairly ludicrous notion of writing software, giving it away for free, and then other people expecting you to give them the world on a platter along with it 23:58:46 hear hear 23:59:49 I have $$ now, I'll pay for good docs!