00:00:09 -!- jan247 [n=jan247@120.28.131.253] has quit [] 00:03:04 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:55 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:11 Soulmann [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:15 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:04:19 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:40 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:07:41 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:07:51 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 00:08:03 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:08:43 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 00:09:14 -!- Soulman__ [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:10:36 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:11:51 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:11:57 -!- sebell [n=sctb@mail.arcurve.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:12:19 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 00:13:32 ping bgs100 00:14:24 -!- joshe [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [] 00:15:18 -!- rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-a776eec7d0f16262] has quit [] 00:15:55 joshe [n=joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 00:17:53 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-b5aa3084b17b6f60] has joined #lisp 00:19:28 -!- jyujin [n=mdeining@82.113.121.138] has quit [] 00:20:22 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:20:57 pemryan [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has joined #lisp 00:20:57 -!- pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:21:27 -!- Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [] 00:21:57 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:31:51 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0BE5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:33:30 jan247 [n=jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has joined #lisp 00:37:49 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-42.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 00:39:18 hey. If a variable is globally special (devar foo), then it is bound as a special variable by (let ((foo ...)) ...) and the likes without a declare in the let form, right? 00:39:30 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.106] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:39:40 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 00:39:45 yup 00:43:12 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:43:38 cheers 00:48:29 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #lisp 00:49:13 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit ["leaving"] 00:50:09 rtoym_ [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 00:51:12 HET3 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 00:51:52 -!- pemryan is now known as pem 00:51:54 -!- HET3 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Client Quit] 00:57:18 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:54 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [] 01:05:31 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:05:43 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:07:06 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.106] has joined #lisp 01:08:08 -!- dysinger [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:10:15 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 01:10:37 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:11:24 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 01:11:39 demmel: this is the reason why special variable should be specially named, to prevent unsuspicious code to accidently bind a special variable when it meant a lexical one. (defvar *foo*) 01:12:01 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:26 -!- milaz [n=user@85.172.104.151] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:12:41 pjb: Makes sense. They are named *...* so all should be good :) 01:13:10 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-41-161.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:13:21 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:13:36 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-05ff785e4105721c] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:13:38 unless you take Let Over Lambda as gospel 01:13:53 *cringe* 01:13:56 oh wait, I mean 01:13:57 cringe 01:14:10 is there some function within CL that compares two lists and gives you the first item that is not the same in either list? 01:14:26 I know it is trivial to write it, yet I wonder about it 01:14:55 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_set_di.htm 01:15:05 madnificent: (car (set-difference ..)) 01:15:06 ? 01:15:23 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 01:15:26 there's a whole bunch of nice set functions 01:15:31 *madnificent* searches 01:15:55 madnificent: mismatch is the closest to what you need 01:16:34 fe[nl]ix: that could be both true and funny 01:16:47 funny? 01:16:56 sykopomp: no ordering guarantees for set-difference ;( 01:17:02 xristos: oh :( 01:18:18 fe[nl]ix: mismatch: doesn't match what you asked/gave :) 01:18:22 thanks 01:19:16 madnificent: mismatch only returns an index 01:20:34 Xach: whats Let Over Lambda? 01:20:48 *demmel* googling 01:21:01 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:05 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:21:57 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.28.224] has quit [] 01:23:22 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E5C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:24:46 Xach: So does that book say you shouldn't use special variables? 01:24:51 demmel: some crazy lisp book by a guy who decided parentheses would be the nicest religion 01:25:24 ^^ 01:25:43 Is it a book worth reading? 01:26:03 no idea, I heard this on /prog/ 01:26:41 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:27:05 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:27:41 fe[nl]ix: good enough 01:28:36 -!- kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:30:47 Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:16 -!- fullets1 [n=hg@robotines.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:33:41 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@97-95-183-15.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:34:50 has anyone read Let Over Lambda? 01:35:13 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.106] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:35:20 demmel: the book doesn't use earmuffs for special variables. 01:35:44 sykopomp: I see 01:36:37 The author really must love Common Lisp (reading into the first chapter...) 01:37:42 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit ["ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net"] 01:37:53 I am shocked and appalled 01:38:27 http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001285.html 01:38:34 sorry for offtopic 01:38:49 special-variable (looks better with a big font, I guess) 01:39:32 demmel, I remember reading about how crazy the author was. 01:41:03 so he might be crazy enogh to write a readworth book about macros 01:41:20 mk [n=mk@unaffiliated/mk] has joined #lisp 01:42:06 Readworth? 01:42:51 luis: would you mind if we switch cffi to git ? 01:45:14 01:45:19 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:45:46 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:43 fe[nl]ix: praise be git \o/ 01:46:53 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:47:11 Wow, I finally get the \o/ emoticon. 01:47:40 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 01:50:11 how can a lisp loop be written immutably? 01:50:32 mk: wut? 01:50:56 with style and finesse. 01:50:59 sykopomp: without using incf to change the value of n, for example 01:51:09 clhs loop 01:51:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 01:51:10 mk: use recursion instead? 01:51:31 mk, loop is very nice an not lisplike. 01:51:31 mk, use (1+ n) or (+ n 1) instead of (incf n) 01:51:51 dysinger [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:08 sykopomp: how does that look? 01:54:38 mk, you mean how does recursion look? 01:54:45 It's just a function calling itself. 01:55:47 Captain_Thunder: how does it look in lisp? 01:56:12 Just like a normal function call, (defun (f) (f)) ;;A nice infinite loop 01:56:24 The specifics are obviously going to change from function to function. 01:56:32 Er, (defun f (f)) 01:56:41 Oh dang it (defun f () (f)) 01:56:49 *Captain_Thunder* needs to go to bed 01:57:09 Captain_Thunder: (defun foo (i) (princ i T) (1- (foo i))) 01:57:21 sigh, /me too 01:58:19 <_3b> mk: using recusion for loops is only viable when you can rely on TCO, so for example it can be used in scheme but not CL 01:58:53 _3b, uh, what? 01:59:08 I use recursion in CL all the time, and I'm sure lots of other people do too. 01:59:17 <_3b> Captain_Thunder: using recusion for general loops 01:59:36 _3b: however, it can be used in most implementations of CL, at least once you've compiled your functions. 01:59:37 should update it anyways : (defun foo (i) (unless (> 0 i) (princ i T) (foo (1- i)))) 01:59:57 Well, I don't know what your definition of general is, but I use it whenever it's natural with no problems. 02:00:11 <_3b> Captain_Thunder: for example you (f) would probably run out of stack in most CL, but won't in sceme 02:00:20 and make that (> 0 i) (plus i) to make it clean 02:00:31 That example was *supposed* to crash :) 02:00:41 <_3b> Captain_Thunder: why? it is juyst an infinite loop? 02:00:49 Well, yeah. 02:00:51 _3b: actually, (f) won't run out of stack in most CL. There are very specific special cases where it would, but in general, in practice, it won't. 02:00:54 <_3b> would (loop) crash? 02:01:07 Captain_Thunder: as always, recursion has its downsides :) (but it can be easier to read for some problems) 02:01:19 Yeah, I don't use recursion for everything. 02:01:20 _3b: eg. of all the CL implementations I know, only in clisp not compiled would it stack overflow... 02:01:20 <_3b> pjb: yeah, it might work, but nothing in the spec says it has to, unlike scheme 02:01:39 Captain_Thunder, try this: (labels ((test () (test))) (test)) ... then try this: (locally (declare (optimize speed)) (labels ((test () (test))) (test))) .. by asking for some optimization the CL implementation _might_ do TCO 02:01:41 _3b: good grief, SRFI are not in the spec either. 02:01:42 _3b: depends on your definition of crashing :) 02:01:58 <_3b> pjb: oh, is TCO not specified in scheme? 02:02:12 _3b: what use is TCO when you don't have anything else? 02:02:13 Oh God, CL vs. Scheme war. 02:02:38 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:02:42 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:46 If you use scheme with SRFI and other implementation specific libraries, let us use practical CL implementations with TCO. 02:03:14 all CLs I know of treat TCO as an optimization, which is disabled at higher debug levels 02:03:19 <_3b> pjb: ah, could be my understanding of scheme was wrong then (i don't actually use it) 02:03:22 kuwabara1 [n=kuwabara@84.14.121.138] has joined #lisp 02:03:42 which generally makes it somewhat impractical to depend on... 02:03:57 -!- kuwabara [n=kuwabara@84.14.121.138] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:04:07 *_3b* always thought that was one of the scheme vs. lisp differences, that you could rely on TCO without worrying about implementation specific details 02:04:14 _3b: it is. 02:05:03 _3b: pjb's point is that scheme doesn't have a sockets library in the standard unlike CL, so while you have TCO you can't actually do anything useful in it without relying on implementation-specific behavior anyways... 02:05:06 _3b: another difference is that you have specified in CL a lot of library operators that let you develop practical programs without a need for implementation specific libraries. 02:05:09 oh wait, CL doesn't have one of those either! :) 02:05:19 :-) 02:05:44 <_3b> ah, i thout he was implying TCO was in a SRFI, and thus not in the spec 02:05:48 But at least we have file access operators, structures and OO, etc. 02:06:12 thanks :) 02:06:27 Proper tail recursion is a precisely defined space safety guarantee required of implementations of Scheme. I am not aware of any Common Lisp system that guarantees proper tail recursion. Some implementations compile some tail calls so that they use less space or take less time to execute. 02:07:18 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:42 foom, CL has a sockets library in the standard? 02:07:45 Structures is a precisely defined data agregation mechanism, reqired of implementations of Common Lisp. I am not aware of any Scheme system that guarantees proper structures. Some implementation may provide them to easy scheme developers' burden. 02:07:51 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:08:01 Captain_Thunder: No, there are some things that neither scheme or CL have. 02:08:24 It sounded like that's what he said... 02:08:40 read the "oh wait,.." that follows, Captain_Thunder 02:08:55 Gah, sorry :) 02:08:59 :) 02:09:48 <_3b> pjb: so you would feel comfortable implementing arbitrary loops using recursion in portable CL code? 02:10:18 _3b: basically, yes. 02:10:19 Why wouldn't you? 02:10:37 _3b: I'd just document that you'd have to compile them in clisp... 02:10:41 And now, I take my leave. 02:10:43 -!- Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [] 02:11:10 _3b, without reasonable bounds on the number of recursions, I'd be uncomfortable doing that. 02:11:22 <_3b> pjb: and not compile with (debug 3), etc? 02:11:29 Yes. 02:12:04 I might also provide a compiler-macro for implementations that don't implement TCO ;-) 02:12:19 For example, a balanced binary tree descent is bounded by a constant multiple of the height of the tree, which is not going to be more than sixty-four, and I sure hope that a Common Lisp implementation can handle sixty-four procedure calls on the stack. 02:13:03 (I am speaking loosely here about what is bounded and so on, of course.) 02:13:59 can sbcl output some diagnostics wrt. it doing TCO or not by the way? .. i notice it reports whether it is able to stack-allocate when dynamic-extent is requested now 02:14:31 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:20:30 <_3b> hmm, expiring lisppastes... that makes reading #lisp logs a bit more annoying :/ 02:20:51 huh 02:21:14 Expiring lisppastes? 02:22:36 <_3b> yeah, there is an 'expires in' field when creating pastes, 1 hr, 1 day, 1 week, 4 weeks, defaults to never 02:25:29 commmmodo [n=commmmod@208.74.35.107] has joined #lisp 02:26:18 Hmm. cl getopt appears to have a bug. 02:26:40 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2ED7C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:26:51 Anyone know of some other getopt-like functionality that can handle -abc as -a, -b, -c? 02:31:35 rotty: you can ask didier verna to publish the library he demoed at ELS 02:31:56 IIRC he said that he would publish it "soon" 02:34:00 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@208.74.35.107] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:34:40 commmmodo [n=commmmod@208.74.35.107] has joined #lisp 02:35:22 fe[nl]ix: rotty? Does that mean I stink? :-) Thanks for the hint. I'll ask him. Does it handle long options and -abc? 02:37:24 I think so 02:40:56 rotty: it also had stuff like automatic generation of the --help index 02:41:20 and theming too :D 02:43:16 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@208.74.35.107] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:43:46 and g'day #lisp 02:43:51 commmmodo [n=commmmod@208.74.35.107] has joined #lisp 02:50:17 fusss [i=738024d9@gateway/web/freenode/x-daf5e7854749b053] has joined #lisp 02:50:19 koft [n=kvirc@adsl-221-71-194.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:24 greetings! 02:50:57 Anyone know the exact syntax for binding *session-removal-hook*? 02:52:09 it's PER session right? and (setf *session-removal-hook* #'foo) where foo takes one argument of type SESSION should do 02:52:20 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@208.74.35.107] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:52:31 dialtone [n=dialtone@c-69-181-124-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:34 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 02:55:07 bll 02:55:09 bbl 02:58:10 -!- fusss [i=738024d9@gateway/web/freenode/x-daf5e7854749b053] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 02:59:13 take a peek at line 167 in session.lisp, fuss 03:03:44 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-32-194.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:09:21 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:09:46 Quadre` [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has joined #lisp 03:10:16 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:10:29 -!- Quadre` is now known as Quadrescence 03:11:59 *rtoym_* fixes a bug in cl getopt and extends it to handle -abc as -a -b -c. 03:13:03 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-233-205.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:15:29 serichse1 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-155-135.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:21:54 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:22:25 saikat_ 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[n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:29 hi rtoym check out wclas http://cl-www.msi.co.jp/projects/wclas/index.html 04:05:45 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable110.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:12:20 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #lisp 04:12:38 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.51.25] has joined #lisp 04:13:37 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:13:53 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:14:20 -!- Quadre` [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:14:55 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:17:23 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-22.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:27:51 -!- Adlai` [n=user@adsl-69-228-190-230.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:29:59 ok, so i'm trying to wrap loop in a macro, and have optional ability to specify a &rest parameter to add collect to the loop... i can't quite seem to get it 04:30:28 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:16 <_3b> Demosthenes: what do you have so far? 04:31:16 http://paste.lisp.org/display/83274 04:31:22 i was workin gon the paste ;] 04:31:42 its simple, just scanning a file until end or a regexp... but it reapeats in my prog many times, i figured a macro was right 04:31:55 <_3b> ,@(if ...) maybe? 04:31:56 i just need the ability to make it collect in one case, all the rest don't need it 04:32:01 Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 04:32:10 well, i tried when and if, and they return NIL, which isn't a loop keyword 04:32:13 and results in an error 04:32:27 <_3b> right, ,@() does nothing 04:32:28 i tried a quoted '" ", #\; 04:32:31 ooo 04:32:44 Good morning. 04:32:54 <_3b> when would possibly be better than IF since you don't have an else branch 04:33:50 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 04:34:29 <_3b> also, don't use tabs, it messes up indentation when you lisppaste it :p 04:34:53 ;] 04:35:11 ok so that works, now i can't seem to get the syntax right on "collect line" 04:35:12 <_3b> though i guess something like that will be indented oddly either way 04:35:37 first macro, had no clue on the ,@ ;] 04:36:41 wow, i can just use COLLECT LINE and be done. 04:36:48 wtf. i thought i had to have some quoting at least 04:36:49 <_3b> actually, you did the gensym part wrong also i think 04:36:57 i just ran it, and it works ;] 04:37:10 <_3b> right, if you had done the gensym right, it wouldn't work :p 04:37:49 http://paste.lisp.org/display/83274#1 04:37:53 oh 04:38:07 well, the loop should be making a local var anyway, right? 04:38:11 <_3b> try naming the stream LINE instead of STREAM 04:38:22 <_3b> (which admittedly isn't too likely here) 04:40:07 i don't quite get it, but i'm assuming loop is handling its local var correctly 04:40:14 i removed the let anyway 04:40:17 and it works ;] 04:40:53 Demosthenes: Yeah, but you might capture a free variable in the loop-directives, which is why you need a gensym. 04:41:00 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.106] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:41:04 Demosthenes: But the gensym must be outside the generated code. 04:41:34 -!- demmel [n=demmel@dslb-094-216-077-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 04:42:56 ah 04:42:58 that makes more sense 04:43:04 <_3b> Demosthenes: see the annotation 04:43:41 <_3b> doing it 'correctly' is a bit more verbose in this case, since you want to be able to add code that uses that var 04:43:42 cool 04:46:05 <_3b> also, i switched the order of the until test, on the assumption cl-ppcre:scan wouldn't like NIL, and you shouldn't need ignore-errors on the read-line call 04:46:26 is the WHEN necessary? the rest arg is initialized to NIL and ,@NIL produces nothing 04:46:40 <_3b> arbscht_: good point 04:48:34 <_3b> actually, i guess my version should put the gensym as the default for the option and drop the LET as well 04:50:00 <_3b> http://paste.lisp.org/+1S96#3 <- shorter version 04:51:02 Adlai` [n=user@c-69-181-142-8.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:23 holy optimizations batman 04:52:28 -!- X-Scale2 is now known as TR2N 04:52:37 thats sweet 04:54:16 having refined it so much, would now be a good time to question the need for a macro in the first place? :-) 04:54:22 -!- dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:54:28 *_3b* was just about to :) 04:56:41 ? 04:56:53 i'm parsing out a file, and having to seek through it 04:57:06 http://paste.lisp.org/display/83274#4 <---- my version with better name and explicit line var 04:57:13 *shrug* thats all. i just keep repeating it for different regexps, and on occasion collect the lines between two regexps 04:57:18 still, i wouldn't use a macro there. 04:57:39 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 04:58:28 well... i had the exact code repeated several times except the collect statement, i figured it was a place to start ;] 04:58:30 i'm new to lisp, is that common lisp, practical common lisp, or something else? 04:58:58 oh, and the ignore errors on read is needed, because i hit the occasional binary file and should skip it 04:59:11 or binary output in what should have been ascii data 04:59:19 <_3b> wubbster: 'practical common lisp' is a book, this channel and the current discussion are about common lisp 04:59:25 Demosthenes: handle the condition, don't ignore all errors 04:59:34 arbscht_: still learning that part 04:59:50 PCL has a good example of restarts, iirc 04:59:51 _3b, lmao...thanks... saw the link at the bottom of that page that said practical common lisp so i thought it was a different dialect or something 04:59:55 i need to verify if ignore is ignoring the entire remains of the file, or just skipping that one line of bad data 05:00:23 Demosthenes: here is another http://chaitanyagupta.com/lisp/restarts.html 05:00:58 <_3b> Demosthenes: what is 'one line' in a binary file? 05:01:34 <_3b> though i guess if you just mean encoding/decoding errors, it might be meaningful for some encodings 05:01:41 _3b: it can be either an all binary file (skipping is fine), or a corrupt output inside an otherwise ascii file (ie: a stray unicode char) 05:02:16 amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@charanda.shochu.sandino.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:54 HAHHA! arbscht_ that tutorial was written in ORG-MODE! 05:02:59 *cheers* 05:03:37 so, when is the NaCL backend for SBCL coming? :) 05:04:05 -!- dysinger [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:04:39 thanks for the help, bbiab 05:05:04 -!- Ringo48 [n=Ringo48@97-122-180-214.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:05:08 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@rrcs-24-103-208-12.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit ["leaving"] 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[n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:18 i am using slime 2009-07-06 & sbcl 1.0.20 under linux. somehow parameter-preview is limited to 8 rows in the mini-buffer. what can cause this? 05:27:41 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-241-17-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:55 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #lisp 05:33:40 evening 05:37:48 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:38:56 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 05:42:36 -!- Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has left #lisp 05:42:53 Demosthenex [n=demo@173.86.192.171] has joined #lisp 05:42:59 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-c55838493372cc89] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:43:19 ok, so that scan file with regexp, someone said i shouldn't use a macro. why? 05:44:15 <_3b> because you don't really need to (at least as specified) 05:44:28 -!- dysinger [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:44:47 <_3b> write it as a function, with an option that says whether you want to collect lines or not (or as 2 functions) 05:46:57 see, that was the part that made me think macro 05:49:21 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Success] 05:49:48 dysinger [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:26 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.139.195] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:50:31 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:50:36 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 05:51:04 <_3b> if you wanted to do arbitrary things with each line, a macro might be more reasonable (though calling a function on each line would probably still be better) 05:51:34 technically i'm calling a loop across a file of lines... 05:51:35 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.130.6] has joined #lisp 05:51:47 and i wanted to feed it loop directives while the basics stayed the same 05:52:00 using that macro i just compressed that code by half... 05:52:20 <_3b> do you ever want to be able to do anything with th elines besides COLLECT them? 05:52:41 perhaps another unless line or a counting directive 05:53:04 right now it was a fast way to shorten the code 05:56:41 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:00:22 -!- dysinger_ [n=tim@71-20-231-3.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:02:52 -!- wubbster [n=wubb@doc-24-206-235-153.kw.tx.cebridge.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:03:00 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@156.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 06:03:19 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-241-17-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:03:43 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:41 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@156.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:06:00 Demosthenex: is this all for some sort of ad-hoc parser? 06:09:34 it is parsing, yep 06:09:41 i couldn't find any good examples, so i'm just wading thru it 06:09:52 i have no control ove rinput from a vendor :P 06:10:07 they have a poor header, and then a data section, repeating thru the file. 06:12:53 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@43.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 06:14:08 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 06:15:46 elderK [n=elderK@222-152-15-122.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:19:57 so i'm using a scan to find files in the tree that use the header style, then jumping to the header to avoid comments, reading output until next header, lather rinse repeat. return a list of header/output pairs. 06:24:46 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.106] has joined #lisp 06:27:14 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-241-17-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:37 deylen [n=deylen@62.249.247.182] has joined #lisp 06:30:59 exu0 [n=u@dslb-084-056-134-192.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined 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06:47:27 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 06:50:51 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:53:11 -!- exu0 [n=u@dslb-084-056-134-192.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:53:57 ASau [n=user@host122-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 06:54:20 -!- lujz [n=lujz@cpe-92-37-14-9.dynamic.amis.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:54:49 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:55:10 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 06:55:38 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest45285 06:55:55 Good morning. 07:01:18 -!- trebor_h` [n=user@dslb-084-058-207-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:01:50 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-86-153.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:04:54 hey beach! back in france? 07:06:52 slyrus_: Yep, unfortunately. 07:07:17 spiaggia: whoa, how long were you in vietnam for? 07:07:27 almost 4 weeks 07:07:46 it sounds like you enjoyed yourself? 07:07:53 very much 07:07:58 spiaggia: Hell of a long flight eh? 07:08:05 I have made that flight about a dozen times. 07:08:14 tessier: only half as long as to New Zealand :) 07:08:23 Well, not France to vn. But Los Angeles to VN. 07:08:41 spiaggia: It takes me 24 hours from door to door. 07:08:47 lispm [n=joswig@e177123134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:08:57 tessier: I see. Yes, it takes a bit of time. I was lucky this time and had three seats to myself, so I could get some sleep. 07:09:00 Drive to LA, fly to Hong Kong or Seoul or Taipei, fly to Sai Gon. 07:09:05 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:09:16 spiaggia: Wow! Three seats? Unheard of. 07:09:34 not in Economy De Luxe on Vietnam Airlines. 07:09:46 Happens quite often actually. 07:10:36 tessier: What did you do in Sai Gon? 07:11:07 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-145.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:11:15 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-145.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 07:12:46 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:13:20 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@ludios.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:13:31 spiaggia: Director of software development for an outsourced software development company. Started up the office, interviewed and hired programmers, set up infrastructure, etc. 07:13:47 djinni` [n=djinni`@ludios.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:06 spiaggia: Unfortunately it was a relatively short-lived effort as the owner of the company had serious integrity issues. I left the company after 6 months before things got bad. 07:14:22 tessier: Hmm, too bad! 07:14:34 tessier: Where was it located? 07:14:37 spiaggia: Yeah, it was a fun gig. 07:14:47 We were located in Sai Gon Trade Center downtown. 07:14:52 22 floor IIRC 07:14:57 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:12 That's a great location. 07:16:22 -!- Guest45285 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 07:16:40 http://tracyreed.org/photo-album/Vietnam/telepacket-vietnam-ltd 07:16:58 Yes, it is. Too great. It was crazy to have that kind of office space just for programmers. 07:17:34 We should have just rented a villa somewhere. 07:20:53 tessier: Nice photo album! 07:22:19 good morning 07:25:56 hello mvilleneuve 07:29:54 levy [n=levy@apn-89-223-254-90.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 07:31:24 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 07:32:52 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:33:30 Does anyone know if theres a way to convert a bit-vector into an integer without looping over it? 07:35:00 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 07:35:43 iG9 [n=iG9@c-24-8-176-69.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:33 yoonkn [i=yoonkn@210.108.170.70] has joined #lisp 07:38:00 -!- yoonkn [i=yoonkn@210.108.170.70] has quit [Client Quit] 07:38:12 yoonkn [i=yoonkn@210.108.170.70] has joined #lisp 07:38:51 -!- yoonkn [i=yoonkn@210.108.170.70] has quit [Client Quit] 07:39:31 -!- pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:44:07 Riecon: not that i know of. that would be at least a bit tricky to do with possible bignums 07:45:00 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:48:21 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@43.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:48:58 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:50:59 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17EEB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:46 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:51:48 ok, so what are they usualy used for? 07:52:06 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:52:12 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17EEB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:53:01 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:53:53 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-a2a03257f093d28e] has joined #lisp 07:55:51 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-a2a03257f093d28e] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:58:01 yoonkn [n=yoonkn@210.108.170.70] has joined #lisp 07:58:41 hawkbill [n=pradyus@203.110.238.16] has joined #lisp 08:00:25 flags mabe? 08:00:51 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-19-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 08:01:01 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@203.110.238.16] has quit [Client Quit] 08:01:31 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:19 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:06:29 Blkt [n=Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-37-247-157.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:08:30 mathrick [n=mathrick@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 08:09:04 ejs [n=eugen@91.124.204.125] has joined #lisp 08:10:13 -!- iG9 [n=iG9@c-24-8-176-69.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has left #lisp 08:12:45 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] 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has quit ["..."] 08:42:16 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-d0366379c11e66b2] has quit [Client Quit] 08:43:55 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:46:12 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-15-115.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:42 -!- Riecon [n=nathan@dsl2-189.gsinet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:52:28 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp154.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 08:53:11 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-19-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 08:53:43 HET2 [i=diman@128.131.95.22] has joined #lisp 08:55:29 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-4-121.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:05:06 ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:05:12 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 09:06:34 My skill for searching on the net is getting weaker over the years :( Twice now I've come across the exact kind of site I needed weeks after I made my own half-baked algorithm. 09:11:34 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:11:55 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-55a64a240c0f2dfe] has joined #lisp 09:12:30 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-55a64a240c0f2dfe] has quit [Client Quit] 09:12:38 hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-f810c7c3296703b3] has joined #lisp 09:14:49 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:21:32 attila_lendvai [n=ati@89.132.189.132] has joined #lisp 09:23:45 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.106] has quit ["leaving"] 09:28:01 Modius_ [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has joined #lisp 09:29:12 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 09:30:41 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:31:35 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:31:56 Jabberwock [n=jens@193.174.12.194] has joined #lisp 09:32:59 is there a way to single step through an hunchentoot webapp using a browser + slime? 09:39:03 just put it on the ground, but watch out that you step on them only once :) 09:41:48 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 09:42:18 wbraun [n=chatzill@vpn2867.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 09:42:43 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-32-194.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:58 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:43:04 -!- Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:47:34 do you know any other programming languages whose author received a Turning award? 09:47:49 smalltalk 09:48:16 Backus? 09:48:36 leo2007: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_award 09:48:41 there're many 09:50:15 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 09:51:39 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 09:52:13 dto [n=user@98.118.1.212] has joined #lisp 09:54:34 -!- manuel_ is now known as m4nu3l 09:59:50 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 09:59:53 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10:15:18 fusss: net join 10:15:27 -!- wbraun [n=chatzill@vpn2867.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5/20090624012820]"] 10:15:32 alexbobp [n=alex@ppp-70-253-66-27.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:33 oh 10:15:39 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 10:15:58 blandest1 [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 10:16:32 Xach: played with CLSQL recently? 10:16:42 -!- l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:16:53 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 10:16:58 I am using it for work, and I think I figured it out a little too much 10:17:04 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 10:17:23 so much so that I am adapting to its little bugs and coding around them, instead of fixing them or using postmodern 10:19:18 demmel [n=demmel@dslb-094-216-077-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:28 I predict that cl-rdbms and cl-perec will ultimately supersede clsql in the same way as cffi has replaced uffi. 10:19:51 ... except that cffi came with excellent documentation from the start, which cannot be said for cl-rdbms and perec. 10:21:32 CLSQL is delicious. Nothing unpredicatble, and it does the right thing with little fuss. 10:21:57 an honest to goodness ORM 10:22:14 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 10:22:24 plus I learned more SQL reading its friendly error messages than I have in years of ignoring O'Reilly books on the subject ;-) 10:23:50 CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 10:25:38 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 10:25:57 *attila_lendvai* remembers to answer mails 10:26:08 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:26:45 -!- yoonkn [n=yoonkn@210.108.170.70] has quit [Success] 10:28:53 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:28:53 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:28:53 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:28:53 -!- 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[n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:09:23 Jabberwock [n=jens@193.174.12.194] has joined #lisp 11:10:22 splittist [n=dmurray@85.5.55.63] has joined #lisp 11:10:27 morning^3 11:10:46 moin splittist 11:11:02 nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 11:12:31 yo 11:13:15 Yo Xof. Less than 35 scripts left now, I hope. 11:14:54 joswig [n=joswig@e177153099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:15:07 5 to go 11:15:11 -!- demmel [n=demmel@dslb-094-216-077-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 11:15:32 there are fewer absolute howlers this year 11:15:40 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 11:15:58 -!- CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:16:02 -!- blandest1 [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:16:06 I quite liked "the discrete logarithm problem is that it is hard to get x given y = g^x mod p when p is a large prime (> 127)" 11:16:36 -!- Jabberwock [n=jens@193.174.12.194] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:19:32 Xof: Did you get my clx patch? 11:19:51 I think so. You sent it a couple of weeks ago? 11:21:32 stassats: thanks, there are so many of them. 11:22:13 -!- nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:23:11 Sikander [n=soemraws@wirenat-eld.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #lisp 11:23:27 Xof: Yes. Just wanted to make sure I used the right email address. 11:24:44 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177123134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:25:21 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 11:25:27 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@guest245.gti.ssr.upm.es] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:25:47 Ringo48 [n=Ringo48@97-122-180-214.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:56 does anyone have the source to Lemonodor's CLAIM 1.2 ? 11:28:51 quek [n=read_eva@210.253.202.182] has joined #lisp 11:28:53 blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.28.224] has joined #lisp 11:33:06 I do, but not the original tarball, so no guarantee it isn't modified :) 11:36:37 illusion [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 11:38:52 xan [n=xan@conference/gcds/session] has joined #lisp 11:42:47 -!- rapacity [n=prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:44:00 xan_ [n=xan@conference/gcds/session] has joined #lisp 11:46:22 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 11:49:08 -!- xan [n=xan@conference/gcds/session] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 11:50:25 -!- illusion [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 11:52:12 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:40 thanks, I have found a working link on the CLIKI page 11:53:45 -!- hawkbill [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-f810c7c3296703b3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:55:44 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has joined #lisp 11:55:44 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 11:56:58 illusion_ [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 11:58:26 *p_l* temporarily puts lisp implementation of his app on hold, he needs a working demo so he can take time learning UCW/LoL 12:01:54 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:02:50 -!- sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:02:50 What are people trying to achieve when they specify the LispLGPL? 12:03:40 splittist: I guess they want to achieve the goals of LGPL without f*cking up 12:04:36 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:56 basically the NFULGPL 12:05:54 I suspect the changes made in LLGPL would also be usable in Smalltalk, maybe also in Haskell given how GHC works 12:07:03 timor [n=martin@w4836.dip.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 12:07:45 joswig, dude, how have you been? 12:07:58 -!- timor [n=martin@w4836.dip.tu-dresden.de] has left #lisp 12:08:09 hungry 12:08:54 joswig: is everything closed in hamburg at this time? are you organizing the big lisp meeting in hamburg with edi? 12:09:11 splittist: LGPL in my opinion has much more noble goal than GPL itself, LLGPL clears some issues that don't happen in dynamically linked, shared libraries or with C linkage style 12:09:11 no, edi does that with arthur lemmens 12:09:24 edi and arthur seem to do an excellent job 12:09:39 p_l: you're wrong. LGPL doesn't help the users to have the sources of their applications. 12:09:54 though the Lisp meeting has an extensive touristic program 12:10:00 p_l: GPL may motivate commercial vendors to provide the sources to their users. 12:10:14 no skating on the pond, though, I presume. 12:10:26 two dinners, a boat tour, a very nice hotel, a conference room with excellent view over the harbour 12:10:30 matimago: it might motivate them to redo the work to avoid it. 12:11:11 I was worried for a moment, but the list of speakers is also impressive 12:11:23 dan weinreb will here in Hamburg, too 12:11:29 seejay [n=seejay@plexyplanet.org] has joined #lisp 12:11:32 p_l: depends on the finances. They might find it more economical and less risky to publish. 12:12:05 p_l (et al): so what are the goals of the LGPL? The preamble spends most its time saying 'please use the GPL'. 'To allow the library to be linked to non-free software' doesn't seem to me to be terribly precise. 12:12:38 splittist: the LGPL is different from the GPL essentially only when linking of the "library" happens dynamically. 12:13:13 splittist: from my pov (which is *definitely* not RMS' nor FSF's) is that LGPL allows you to force any changes to your code still be public, while still allowing usage by applications with other licenses 12:13:16 splittist: LGPL is an exception that we may indulge into, as a Troy horse send inside the closed world. 12:13:21 sent 12:13:34 splittist: the Lisp preamble says "oops, core file delivery is a case of static linking, but for the purpose of this license you may pretend that it's a case of dynamic linking" 12:13:57 blackened`_ [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 12:13:58 lawyer, consult thyself? 12:14:14 -!- wbraun [n=chatzill@vpn0573.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:14:19 *p_l* doesn't give a damn and if he releases something for others to use, he uses MIT/X11 12:14:35 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:14:39 splittist: compare this to the GNU Classpath license, written as GPL + exception, which avoids the technical definitions by simply talking about the _concept_ of a library. Much clearer IMHO. 12:15:17 I like CMU license, which iirc boiled down to: "You can use this however you want, but please sent changes to this code back to original source" 12:15:44 p_l: game theorists have proved that the best strategy is to replicate the hits of the adversary. Give while the other give, don't give when the other doesn't give. MIT/X11 strategy is less efficient than GPL strategy. 12:18:08 in the free CL world the 'best' Lisp is (IMHO) SBCL which is not GPL (AFAIK) 12:18:15 Sounds good, but doesn't precise what this strategy is best *for*. 12:18:16 splittist: the exact goal when people use the Lisp preamble is being able to ship a closed source app using the LLGPL library as a core file without having to ship source code for the app. Without the preamble, the library would have to be loaded from fasls to fall under the LGPL. 12:18:24 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:18:32 Especially we don't know what *winning* would be. 12:19:05 antoszka: free-software world domination 12:19:15 stassats: I thought so :) 12:19:38 Obviously, I wouldn't mind. If quality went along, too. 12:19:40 florist [n=florist@unaffiliated/florist] has joined #lisp 12:20:00 Jasko [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:40 wait, I light a candle for the Spice Lisp project 12:21:11 rouslan [n=Rouslan@pool-71-161-75-33.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:29 lichtblau: OK. Thanks. The GNU Classpath exception is reasonably clear (and includes an interesting use of 'executable'). I've never found the LLGPL terribly enlightening. 12:22:11 also don't miss to thank Scott Fahlman who lead the research group working on CMUCL which later was forked to SBCL 12:22:14 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~sef/ 12:22:39 (CMUCL was the renamed Spice Lisp) 12:24:09 instead of "free" software world domination, I'd prefer death of hostile takeovers, uberpowerful marketing and idiotic managers 12:24:22 antifuchs: boinkmarks are down 12:24:25 and better education of programmers :D 12:25:08 p_l: I think this is even more dificult to achieve than free-software world domination... Sadly. 12:26:05 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:26:32 antoszka: but it's a much better goal 12:27:08 also, I refuse to be associated with someone with such low hygiene as RMS. Srsly, wtf. 12:27:10 cd1981 [n=cd1981@76.177.111.115] has joined #lisp 12:27:28 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.28.224] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:27:31 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:27:37 Good afternoon. 12:29:08 -!- florist [n=florist@unaffiliated/florist] has quit ["leaving"] 12:29:38 simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 12:29:57 p_l: a while ago i read the autobiography of frank zappa. it looks like he typeset it himself in microsoft word. there is random bold, underline, italic, and !!!!s everywhere. 12:30:19 under the influence of speed 12:30:34 p_l: i was surprised not to notice the typographic unpleasantness after about 3 minutes. it's a fascinating and informative book. 12:30:51 Xach, looks like an idea for a web service 12:31:06 enter an arbitrary text and it gets a Zappa formatting 12:31:23 using hunchentoot 12:35:13 Xach: Aren't typeset and word two words that just don't go together? 12:35:45 ask gigamonkey about that. 12:36:05 levy [n=levy@apn-89-223-254-90.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 12:36:17 KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-7-226.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:52 antoszka: actually, Word is quite good word processor. The problem is idiots who can't notice that they are DOING IT WRONG. And unfortunately the widespread idea of "userfriendliness" makes it easy to misuse 12:38:54 -!- xan_ [n=xan@conference/gcds/session] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:39:15 xan [n=xan@conference/gcds/session] has joined #lisp 12:39:36 p_l: It's got *extremely* limited typesetting features (even though it's usually got some deservedly good fonts bundled), and yeah, it does promote a do-your-formatting-with-a-space-bar non-structured editing style. 12:40:04 p_l: Which makes it a terrible tool in hands of idiots, and a barely usable tool for serious work. 12:40:34 if one starts to write more than a page of text, the LaTeX and Emacs begin to be attractive 12:40:44 antoszka: I'm not saying it's extremely good for typesetting, but for typesetting, I would use a tool designed for typesetting :) 12:40:55 if you write less than a page of text, then use Emacs 12:41:14 Word + InDesign combo works quite well, though I definitely prefer LaTeX 12:41:23 When I was in college, I worked in the campus computer center on a midnight to 6am shift. I saw a lot of Word abuse. One person had manually written all the page numbers at the top of an 80 page paper. Then he wanted me to fix it when he removed a paragraph near the beginning. 12:41:46 p_l: I either edit text (which I do with vim or emacs) or typeset (in InDesign usually, rarely LaTeX). Don't see a place for something in-between. 12:41:57 my main recollection of Word terribleness was being in the college computer room on some humanities subject's deadline day 12:41:58 wbraun [n=chatzill@vpn2878.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 12:42:21 and watching the tears of frustration when Word decided to migrate all the footnotes to the end of the document 12:42:22 Word can't even save documents reliably 12:42:26 *Xach* hopes people today have mostly gotten over the "computer is a typewriter wired to a tv" concept 12:42:28 Xach: I once had to correct someone's Master thesis. The kicker? They had once been in a course that taught how to use Word properly 12:42:37 Xach: they didn't 12:43:33 How To Use Word Properly: Do Not. 12:43:57 Word is highly sophisticated. It knows the precise moment when spontaneously reformatting everything will cause maximum user frustration. 12:43:58 joswig: old Office formats are very weird due to constraints that made sense on 286. Unfortunately no-one got down to correcting it. (Though I heard that XLS was better than XLSX.) 12:44:04 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@abaddon.networkdump.com] has joined #lisp 12:46:47 dlowe [n=dlowe@24.91.154.83] has joined #lisp 12:47:07 *.DOC iirc is actually a memory dump from Word 12:48:08 and resembles a badly fragmented FAT filesystem inside 12:48:32 with uninitialised data for interesting information leaks. 12:49:32 that way with a binary editor you can recover deleted text - that's a feature 12:49:42 memory dumps are one of the C programmer's secret weapons. :) 12:50:06 (or assembly programmers..) 12:50:22 pkhuong: you mean old changes? It's because changes are appended at the end, again due to *very* old reasons 12:50:58 p_l: I thought the issue then was speed; instead of replacing stuff, they just append the changes, making saving much faster 12:51:00 BTW, is cl-typesetting a similar level of abstraction to LaTeX? Are there many predefined document types for it? And is it in general use at all? 12:51:14 p_l: some versions of windows gave uninitialised memory, so you could get garbage from another application. 12:51:36 antoszka: marc battyani used it actively last i checked. i think peter seibel also used it a bit. i don't know if it has more than a few users, though. 12:51:43 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:11 There's a whole industry to scrubbing .DOC files for distribution. 12:52:22 -!- KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-15-115.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:52:45 Sikander: another reason is that they were loaded into a chunk of memory by single linear load 12:53:03 also, MS *loves* memory mapped files 12:53:08 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 12:53:28 you know from where notepad.exe file size limit comes? :D 12:53:39 lol 12:53:47 notepad mmaps the file 12:53:54 antoszka: I had similar questions about cl-typesetting (also if it uses TeX algorithms). Lemme know if you find out ;) 12:54:18 p_l: Insane! 12:54:49 Never understood the cause of that limit before... 12:54:54 antoszka: there's even a comment in IFS SDK that you have to implement mmap entrypoints if you want to have notepad.exe working on your filesystem 12:55:03 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-63.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 12:55:34 Sikander: I'll let you know if I ever actually get around to finding that out. 12:55:58 Sweet Baby Jesus... 12:56:33 antoszka: I'm just generating .tex files now and running them through pdflatex... :) At least the output is familiar! 12:57:25 :) 12:59:04 rapacity [n=prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:01:52 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:03:18 antoszka, cl-typesetting lacks backtracking, and hence, lacks footnotes. 13:03:51 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:03:55 "misuser friendliness"! 13:04:54 Fare: what about misuser friendliness? :D 13:05:05 Fare: you meant "newbie friendliness"? :D 13:05:20 I still like groff as well, though... 13:06:11 -!- wbraun [n=chatzill@vpn2878.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:07:18 *p_l* finds unix cli, latex, plan9 and Emacs "user friendly". Not "newbie friendly", however 13:07:20 Nice, I get unhandled memory faults from the sbcl that comes with debian. 13:07:28 -!- quek [n=read_eva@210.253.202.182] has left #lisp 13:07:49 And the really nice thing is that that sbcl did nothing else than starting up the swank server, and sliem connecting to it, and then was idle for fifteen minutes 13:08:12 cafe_maroc [i=d98568e1@gateway/web/freenode/session] has joined #lisp 13:08:40 tcr: interesting... problems with their asdf hack maybe? 13:09:51 hm that sbcl process is actually using up all cpu 13:09:54 wbraun [n=chatzill@vpn0616.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 13:10:27 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:10:43 -!- wbraun [n=chatzill@vpn0616.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:11:58 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17EEB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:13:30 tcr: attach a gdb, maybe. 13:14:18 Don't care, I got my shiny sbcl from git now 13:14:49 Fare: Guess I should stick to latex for my 8-years overdue thesis, then. 13:14:52 (I suffered from a something tantamount to rm -rf /home/tcr) 13:15:40 fortunately the deleting process started at software/, and so didn't reach my personal stuff 13:17:34 (the culprit was a Python script written by myself, I bet if I had done it in Lisp, it'd have barfed some pathname-related error because I wouldn't have gotten the code right :>) 13:18:46 tcr: nightly backups ;) 13:19:19 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 13:19:55 LiamH [n=none@208.72.159.207] has joined #lisp 13:20:01 bavardage [n=bavardag@87.115.91.199] has joined #lisp 13:20:13 Tell me one doctor who takes the advise to see a doctor! 13:20:20 how can I get 100 keys from a hash table without iterating over the whole thing? 13:20:34 what, 100 random keys? 13:20:40 bavardage: You iterate over everything and stop after 100 iterations 13:20:42 vaguely 13:20:46 or do you have specific keys you'd like? 13:20:47 ah 13:20:54 yep, just iterate as far as you want 13:20:54 doesn't really matter which ones 13:20:56 kk 13:21:04 also, how *would* I get a random key 13:21:05 loop's slightly scary hash table syntax is good for this 13:21:09 is that even possible? 13:21:21 bavardage: What do you mean with "random"? 13:21:31 the key of some item in the table 13:21:44 doesn't matter which item, which key 13:22:05 So the 100 first ones. 13:22:06 No, I mean do you have statistical constraints? 13:22:08 atm I'm getting all the keys, and taking a random elt of that. 13:22:09 "first" 13:22:11 tcr: no.. 13:22:26 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 13:22:31 so the first 100 keys are fairly abitrary then? 13:22:46 fairly 13:22:47 randomm in that I wouldn't want to just end up with the last 100 things added 13:23:06 ok so it *does* matter which keys and items. 13:23:13 manic12_ [n=awolven@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:17 :D 13:23:30 jmbr [n=jmbr@43.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:23:39 uhh right, I'll explain 13:23:47 Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:54 I'm helping to code an irc bot, and it 'learns' facts from listening in channels 13:24:03 if you're worried, get the size of the hash table, then iterate, collecting the key with an appropriate probability 13:24:04 listening for statements like 'x is y' 'x likes y' 13:24:23 and when it reaches a limit on the number of facts, I want to 'forget' some 13:24:25 but forget randomly 13:24:35 that I'm too lazy to calculate correctly right now; something like (N to choose)/(N left) 13:25:06 oh right kk 13:25:41 so some method using probability will probably be best 13:25:49 uhh also, how badly does a hash table degrade with size? 13:25:57 like, will a hash table of 100k items be useable? 13:26:10 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:26:33 -!- xan [n=xan@conference/gcds/session] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:26:54 bavardage: I bet that depends on your hardware. should be easy to try, though 13:26:58 a hash table doesn't generally get substantially worse the more items are in it, provided e.g. you have enough memory to hold the keys and values. 13:27:02 antoszka, there are things that produce nice latex for you 13:27:06 oh kk 13:27:13 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:27:16 only 8 years? small player! 13:27:22 Unrelated question, is there a standard function for getting a list of keys in a hash table? 13:27:28 I calced for the hashtable I'm using, it's unlikely to be much bigger than tb.. 13:27:39 *10 mb 13:27:44 Captain_Thunder: no, but it's pretty easy to write one 13:27:51 Of course :) 13:28:26 (defun hash-table-keys (table) (loop for key being the hash-keys of table collect key)) 13:28:31 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:28:31 is that the best way to do it? 13:28:32 Captain_Thunder: alexandria:hash-table-keys 13:28:36 is there a more efficient way? 13:28:44 you could maintain a list or array of keys 13:28:52 I suspect that would be a little more efficient 13:29:01 especially if you have many more reads than writes 13:29:12 -!- willb [n=wibenton@173-18-244-146.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Success] 13:29:19 bavardage: that is a pretty good way for a CL hash table. 13:29:32 You learn something new about LOOP every day... o_o 13:29:37 bavardage: the one in my utils.lisp uses maphash and push, but i don't think it makes a big difference. 13:29:46 oh kk 13:29:59 I thought of using push first, but temporary variables seem so un-Lispy. 13:30:01 *rsynnott* suspects that the loop hash table syntax is like that specifically to put people off using it :) 13:30:06 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:30:20 tcr: for backups, systems like Venti are quite interesting 13:30:25 Captain_Thunder: there'll be temporary variable used in the loop, anyway, probably 13:30:29 it will just be HIDING 13:30:32 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17EEB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:36 *Captain_Thunder* doesn't let that stop him from riddling his code with them 13:31:01 Fare: The only higher level tool I somewhat know is Lyx. What tools did you have on your mind? 13:31:10 tcr: since Venti doesn't have a "delete" operation :) 13:31:14 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:45 tcr: Actually I *do* nightly backups of my personal laptop :). Unless I forget to mount the external drive (but I usually do). 13:32:01 *p_l* needs to finally start backing up 13:33:05 *rsynnott* is terribly lazy about backups 13:33:07 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-174-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 13:33:17 one day my laptop will explode, and then I will no doubt be sorry 13:33:29 though most really important stuff in a remote repository anyway 13:33:49 when my wife's laptop hard drive crashed, it was with enormous pride that i was able to positively answer the repair tech's question "we have to replace the damaged drive. do you have backups?" 13:34:37 TDT [i=dthole@dhcp80ff869b.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 13:36:47 -!- Bootvis [i=bob@217.148.91.177] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 13:37:41 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@cpe-24-59-253-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:46 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.106] has joined #lisp 13:39:03 Bootvis [i=bob@baltar.lan.endoria.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:53 haha 13:40:14 *p_l* has to not only make backups, but to re-image his drive. Time to enable that encryption 13:40:48 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 13:40:52 I have encryption (ecryptfs) on some important dotfiles and dotdirs on the laptop I travel a lot with. 13:41:53 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:30 And the mailspools. 13:44:12 antoszka: for some reason, my university bought first-year undergrads laptops that have military-style full disk encryption (AES-256 iirc, done in hw). They didn't think however of getting us a better cpu (T5500 sucks), more memory (1G? even Emacs got faster when I upped it to 2G) or better GPU (X3100... it's a joke). And where's my ieee1394 ;_; 13:44:37 antoszka, well, there is Manuel Serrano's Skribe, 13:44:48 also, Eli Barzilay's Scribble 13:44:58 -!- joswig [n=joswig@e177153099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:12 isismelting1 [n=jo@ip72-197-226-227.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:38 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.106] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:47:11 loxs [n=loxs@82.137.72.32] has joined #lisp 13:47:26 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.106] has joined #lisp 13:50:12 p_l: Cool university, anyhow. 13:50:54 antoszka: they could drop Java, though 13:51:26 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:51:45 *p_l* didn't like his second half-year CS professor. Too stiff and he managed to get lost in cmd.exe... 13:51:59 -!- Blkt [n=Blkt@dynamic-adsl-94-37-247-157.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:53:40 lol 13:56:04 Show me anyone who doesn't get lost in cmd.exe. 13:56:12 I flee at the mere sight of it... 13:57:11 <-- 13:57:40 -!- Ragnaroek [n=chatzill@p54A6420A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:59:15 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:59:33 antoszka: cmd.exe is easy. It is however quite primitive, but PowerShell is a good replacement 13:59:45 now if only windows had better terminal emulator 14:00:32 *p_l* reminds himself that as soon as he gets his windows server running again he has to install ZSH. that KSH it had is so ancient that it isn't even funny 14:00:37 blandest1 [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 14:00:58 *stassats* remembers using debug.exe for writing assembly, teacher thought i was trying to send messages to other computers because of cmd.exe 14:01:01 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:01:25 *schme* remembers the typewriters in school. 14:01:46 stepnem: debug.com. 14:02:12 (stassats) 14:02:12 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 14:02:31 -!- Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [] 14:02:40 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:03:03 -!- isismelting1 [n=jo@ip72-197-226-227.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 14:03:08 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest86106 14:03:12 ah, delicious *.COM format. The only thing that managed to turn HTML into a true programming language 14:03:36 at least INT20 is convenient. 14:04:15 *p_l* had once a html file misnamed as something.com ... it ran correctly in infinite (or so it seemed) loop 14:04:16 -!- dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-47-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:06:38 danlei [n=user@pD9E2E6ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:57 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@75.36.204.63] has joined #lisp 14:07:03 Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:58 -!- levy [n=levy@apn-89-223-254-90.vodafone.hu] has quit ["..."] 14:10:33 a-s`` [n=user@92.81.147.107] has joined #lisp 14:10:45 p_l: Perhaps easy in essence, but so mind-bogglingly cumbersome and unwieldy... 14:11:39 rouslan_ [n=Rouslan@pool-70-109-130-209.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:13 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-118-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:35 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:16:37 -!- a-s` [n=user@92.81.146.45] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:19:00 -!- rouslan_ [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:21:29 Dromiceius [n=anon@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:23 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 14:25:31 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-86-153.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:27:29 true. That's why I need to install ZSH, though I'll have to make some special command for running win32 apps. They don't like Unix pathnames given to them :/ 14:28:46 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@cpe-24-59-253-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:29:15 p_l: would eshell be enough for you? 14:30:07 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 14:30:14 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:25 -!- loxs [n=loxs@82.137.72.32] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:30:50 jlf [n=user@adsl-76-200-134-18.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:41 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:32:10 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-231.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:32:23 rudi [n=rudi@mail.ist.tu-graz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 14:33:07 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 14:36:11 splittist: I wonder how I'd mix win32 and posix subsystem at the same time 14:37:56 schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:38:01 -!- schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has left #lisp 14:38:45 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 14:39:04 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 14:39:48 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 14:41:35 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 14:41:42 Greetings. 14:42:20 aloha 14:42:53 splittist: also, zsh will fare better on ./configure :) 14:45:17 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:45:45 adeht [n=death@host-90-233-170-221.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:45:49 varjag [n=eugene@59.125.183.79] has joined #lisp 14:45:52 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 14:51:23 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-86-153.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:52:28 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:01 -!- Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [] 14:54:36 loxs [n=loxs@82.137.72.32] has joined #lisp 14:54:42 *splittist* wishes Portable Ubuntu for Windows was 14:55:33 -!- loxs [n=loxs@82.137.72.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:56:26 zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:12 antoni [n=user@80.30.197.150] has joined #lisp 14:57:14 "Ubuntu, Ubuntu, They Drink It In The Congo" -- ring a bell? 14:59:57 -!- cafe_maroc [i=d98568e1@gateway/web/freenode/session] has quit ["Page closed"] 15:04:16 sytse [i=sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 15:05:45 Guess not. 15:06:30 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:06:54 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:08:46 holycow [n=new@69.67.174.130] has joined #lisp 15:09:15 *p_l* really doesn't like Ubuntu 15:09:36 jewel_ [n=jewel@41.247.203.169] has joined #lisp 15:10:36 do'n care for it that much, either 15:10:53 it's just better out of the box, when ou can't be there holding hands all the time 15:12:46 No "Um Bongo" fans in here, it seems. 15:13:47 is it possible that sbcl doesn't use slot-value-using-class when trying to load a slot value. Either that, or I'm specialising on the wrong arguments 15:13:56 s/arguments/types/ clearly 15:14:59 madnificent: how did you specialise s-v-u-c? 15:16:19 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:16:20 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:22 pkhuong: linkable-support-metaclass linkable-support-class linked-effective-slot (the first is the metaclass, the second is the class, the last is the superclass of the slot 15:16:25 willb2 [n=wibenton@173.18.243.255] has joined #lisp 15:16:29 -!- Guest86106 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 15:17:29 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:17:30 -!- varjag [n=eugene@59.125.183.79] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:17:43 milanj [n=milan@93.86.54.240] has joined #lisp 15:17:52 pkhuong: ah, and it's an :around method (shouldn't matter though) 15:17:52 mop: s-v-u-c 15:17:59 mop s-v-u-c 15:18:56 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:18 varjag [n=eugene@59-125-183-79.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:21 pkhuong: I don't see anything in the dictionary. There is some hint that I may need to override other methods (but I can't find which ones) 15:20:34 Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:16 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Client Quit] 15:21:25 I don't think specialising on the second argument is supported. 15:21:39 -!- blandest1 [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:21:51 pkhuong: any ideas as to why not? 15:22:10 -!- bavardage [n=bavardag@87.115.91.199] has quit ["leaving"] 15:22:16 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:24:03 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 15:24:24 -!- Summersault [n=root@189.107.157.209] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:24:28 Summersault [n=root@189.107.157.209] has joined #lisp 15:25:11 -!- willb2 [n=wibenton@173.18.243.255] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:25:35 willb2 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:25:35 luis: NetworkManager, HAL, PolicyKit and ConsoleKit do that to you, I guess 15:25:43 (it doesn't seem to work when I don't specialise on it, either) 15:26:23 -!- antoni [n=user@80.30.197.150] has left #lisp 15:26:36 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.216.106] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:27:10 p_l: does what to whom? 15:30:58 luis: Well, those are among the reasons I don't like "userfriendly" distros 15:32:38 *piso* likes a distro that knows how to fight back 15:33:01 windows? 15:33:14 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:33:34 piso: on my long-term todo is an AI-based IDS/IPS combo :P 15:33:36 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-32-194.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:34:44 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-241-17-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:34:49 -!- Captain_Thunder [n=jimmymil@c-24-35-95-148.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [] 15:35:09 that could "fight back" :D 15:35:44 serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-156-43.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:35:54 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-241-17-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:38 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-113.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:38:59 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-34.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:39:12 -!- rudi [n=rudi@mail.ist.tu-graz.ac.at] has quit ["Client exciting"] 15:43:34 What do you guys think of for a lock-free operation DSL? (Doesn't protect against live-lock, mind you) 15:45:01 demmel [n=demmel@a031.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 15:47:30 -!- anekos is now known as A_anekos 15:48:36 mstevens_ [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 15:50:30 -!- serichse1 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-155-135.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:52:22 -!- adeht [n=death@host-90-233-170-221.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [] 15:54:05 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:59:46 hezy [n=hezy@62.56.254.158] has joined #lisp 16:00:38 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:02:02 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:02:57 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.230.122] has quit ["off"] 16:03:14 pkhuong: what sort of lock is that? 16:03:37 the MCAS:LOCK 16:04:10 luis: it acquires the location but preserves enough information for other threads to complete whatever operation is being done instead of blocking. 16:04:25 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:05:18 pkhuong: if it fails, does it restart the DO block? 16:05:48 nope, it just returns NIL (failure). 16:06:08 oh right, and then you loop manually. 16:06:14 after atomically undoing whatever was done (again leaving enough information for other threads to also undo) 16:07:26 manic12 [n=awolven@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:35 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit ["bye"] 16:07:38 -!- manic12 [n=awolven@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:08:13 judging from your examples, I wonder if the DO block could handle the looping? 16:08:29 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:08:33 well, you'd probably want smarter contention handling. 16:08:52 Anyway that's a pretty superficial comment. Do you have any suggestions for reading material re lock-free algorithms? 16:08:56 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:09:05 the DO macro is also fairly low level. I wanted to get something out, and then experiment on the interface. 16:10:14 I don't know? I've been reading "The Art of Multiprocessor Programming", and I don't even remember half the papers I've read or how I found them. 16:10:18 (afk) 16:10:32 code + reference is at (: 16:10:52 Ah, I have that book in my car. I should read it then. 16:10:56 schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:11:09 -!- schoppenhauer [n=senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has left #lisp 16:13:24 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17EEB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:13:37 luis: ... not while driving 16:15:12 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-241-17-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:16:22 -!- Demosthenex [n=demo@173.86.192.171] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:17:23 -!- manic12_ [n=awolven@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:18:49 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:18:58 amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@charanda.shochu.sandino.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:16 pkhuong: i find it a little hard to read the dot syntax for 2lists 16:20:34 -!- enn [n=eli@codeanddata.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:20:36 pkhuong: also, the description of GET makes it sound more like it sets something than gets something. 16:21:01 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-86-153.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["leaving"] 16:21:50 Get is the new set. 16:23:14 pkhuong: actually, GET and LOCK both seem like they would not make changes to a variable, but they both assign to the first arg 16:23:23 just the names, that is 16:23:44 -!- amnesiac_ is now known as amnesiac 16:23:56 pkhuong: a first naive reading, without looking at the docs, and it wasn't clear to me how any actual work was being done, just a sequence of fetches and locks. 16:24:30 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:25:14 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 16:25:50 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-37.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:26:08 simard [n=user@pcms05.grm.polymtl.ca] has joined #lisp 16:28:47 I have slime on my computer and I M-x slime-connect to it.. I see the successful connection message in the mini buffer, but I don't get a REPL, what am I doing wrong ? 16:29:07 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-19-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 16:29:21 simplechat: use (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 16:29:25 simard: are you loading the slime-repl contrib? 16:29:31 luis, really? 16:29:41 simplechat: sorry. 16:29:53 simard: that was for you. 16:29:54 Xach: probably not 16:30:13 luis: will try that 16:32:20 well that worked, thank you 16:36:33 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:37:43 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:01 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:41:46 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-32-194.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:01 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:12 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:47:45 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@75.36.204.63] has quit [] 16:48:03 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:48:42 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-12-30.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:50:46 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-34.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:51:06 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-34.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:51:48 Demosthenex [n=demo@173.86.192.171] has joined #lisp 16:53:09 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:53:14 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:54:16 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:24 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:24 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-37.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 16:55:36 -!- willb2 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:56:02 deafmacro [n=user@59.92.146.154] has joined #lisp 16:56:37 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 16:56:39 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:57:12 willb2 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:24 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 17:01:04 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:20 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:28 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:04:23 -!- simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:07:08 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:09:57 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:10:12 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:11:01 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:20 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp154.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 17:15:26 -!- mstevens_ [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 17:22:17 what keys should be pressed in slime when slime goes into infinite loop? 17:22:49 C-c C-c is what i use in the repl 17:23:09 C-c C-b should do the same in a slime-mode file buffer 17:23:23 M-! k i l l a l l SPC - 9 SPC s b c l RET 17:24:13 heh 17:24:22 You can never go wrong with -9 17:24:34 you can go into the thrads buffer and kill the bad thread too 17:24:55 ein badthrad 17:25:03 -!- mega1 [n=mega@pool-03002.externet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:26:38 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-89-252.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:28:39 Xach: none of your keys work 17:29:27 i am using clisp[ 17:29:32 in slime 17:30:48 ZabaQ [n=john_con@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:15 Bigshot_: sorry to hear that. 17:31:29 -!- tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit ["leaving"] 17:33:34 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:41 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 17:34:22 at some point i need to become more familiar with debugging in slime... 17:35:41 -!- Demosthenex [n=demo@173.86.192.171] has quit ["leaving"] 17:35:58 I think a "debuggins with slime" tutorial would be an excellent addition to the corpus of lisp documentation. 17:36:41 -!- varjag [n=eugene@59-125-183-79.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:36:51 s/ins/ing 17:37:00 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:37:33 does slime show in which line an error has occcured? 17:37:57 no 17:38:07 -!- ZabaQ [n=john_con@playboxgames.com] has quit [] 17:38:08 Bigshot_: 'lines' don't make much sense in the context of lisp. 17:38:22 Bigshot_: the debugging capability varies from implementation to implementation. 17:38:36 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.92.146.154] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:38:45 Bigshot_: if you're in a backtrace, "v" on a frame might take you to the exact form that triggered the problem, depending on the implementation and the debug level declaration. 17:39:28 Bigshot_: when i'm debugging a function in slime+sbcl, I recompile individual functions with C-u C-c C-c and then "v" will jump to the exact error form in the debugger. 17:40:49 is that a shortcut for maximum debug info in that func? 17:40:53 C-u C-c C-c can also recompile a frame 17:41:22 HG` [n=wells@xdslgm157.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:41:43 what's the meaning of this DEFUN: Lambda lists with dots are only allowed in macros, not here: Y 17:41:59 -!- ahaas [n=ahaas@neptune.pettomato.net] has quit ["leaving"] 17:42:01 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/session] has joined #lisp 17:42:46 Bigshot_: what is says. :-) 17:43:05 Bigshot_: show us your defun 17:43:34 Bigshot_: are you familiar with this notation? (a b . c) 17:43:41 yeah 17:43:55 Bigshot_: so, that's the dot it's referring to. 17:44:08 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:44:25 -!- illusion_ is now known as CrEddy 17:44:45 crap it went into infinite loop 17:44:53 i always have to restart this emacs 17:45:12 Xach: I renamed LOCK into CAS (compare and swap). Not sure what to do with GET and EVAL. 17:45:51 astalla [n=astalla@93-36-226-255.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:46:38 -!- willb2 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:47:04 willb2 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:24 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:47:30 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 17:47:48 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslgm157.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:48:44 lispm [n=joswig@e177153099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:49:11 wubbster [n=wubb@doc-24-206-235-153.kw.tx.cebridge.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:53 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit ["brb"] 17:50:24 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has quit [] 17:51:45 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@wirenat-eld.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:51:56 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:52:54 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:54 Bigshot_ pasted "why does it go into infinite loop?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83308 17:54:19 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 17:54:31 i know the code is sad but even though :) 17:54:53 Bigshot_: press Ctrl-G 17:54:55 Bigshot_: i think you have used IF in an unsuitable way. 17:54:55 Bigshot_: do you not like cond ? 17:55:15 Bigshot_: "(if (equal check-ls nil) orig)", for example, is not returning ORIG from your function. 17:55:36 why luis? 17:55:44 Bigshot_: you'd have to make it (return-from listpp-func orig) 17:56:00 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:56:09 Bigshot_: but that's not very idiomatic, use COND, or at least nest your IFs. 17:56:26 "have you read your PCL today?" 17:56:27 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:56:47 Bigshot_: The "why" is that after it has done the first IF, then it goes and does the second. then the third which is what becomes the return value of the form. 17:57:15 (a b . c d) is also not valid syntax. 17:57:37 oh it s (a d b . c) 17:57:56 jyujin [n=mdeining@82.113.121.113] has joined #lisp 17:58:28 Bigshot_: It seems a bit odd the whole thing really. Do you know what the . is? :) 17:58:40 wubbster_ [n=wubb@doc-24-206-235-153.kw.tx.cebridge.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:44 *Xach* hopes pjb will whip out a giant ascii diagram 18:00:07 Bigshot_: How about the list '(a b c . nil) ? 18:00:55 (it's a proper list) not dotted one 18:01:27 oops no 18:01:38 it's actually cons 'a 'nil 18:01:45 so it should return nil 18:02:34 i just check in repl and it cons 'c 'nil is (c) 18:02:47 Bigshot_: so '(a b c) should return '(a b c) and '(a b c . nil) return nil? ;) 18:02:53 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 18:03:00 nopoe 18:04:18 Bigshot_: Well it's all good anyway. Important part is that the value of a function is pretty much what the last form of it is. So with all those IFs you'll get all of the IFs evalled and the value of the last one will be what is returned. I don't think it is what you want (: 18:04:38 drewc annotated #83308 "arnesi:proper-lisp-p , as an example. " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83308#1 18:05:18 it also checks for circular lists 18:05:59 so should Bigshot_ if he plans on having the function work with circular lists :) 18:07:02 really, the whole things doesn't make much sense to me as described .... _all_ lists contain a "dot" when written in dot notation .. that's the whole point! 18:08:07 BrianRice [n=water@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:36 "Sun. We're the dot in dotted lists." 18:09:13 I thought they were the dot in Oracle, Inc. 18:09:31 if we don't care about circles, isn't it just (consp (cdr (last list))) ? 18:10:39 -!- wubbster [n=wubb@doc-24-206-235-153.kw.tx.cebridge.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:10:56 let's just not care about lists. 18:11:09 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:52 phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:59 -!- willb2 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:12:13 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:15 drewc: he wants to detect '(a (b . c) d) too 18:12:24 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:12:43 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:54 NIL is the only true list 18:15:23 pffft ... there is no list. 18:15:47 it's made of spoons 18:16:32 dcrawford: s/spoons/pairs :) 18:16:44 Xach: I'm too tired this evening for that, but since there's a big week end coming this way, I'll see if I can provide a web service or perhaps an irc bot for that. 18:17:12 *pjb* is taken away by Morpheus. 18:18:18 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:18:46 I've coded ZERO lisp today because I've been trying to write an SElinux policy for a piece of commercial software. The vendor's recommended solution -> disable SElinux. Bastards. 18:19:33 tmh: ouch. 18:19:38 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["jebane ppp"] 18:22:20 isn't that the recommended solution whether it's commercial software or not? 18:22:39 I mean, it's not like /anyone/ actually understands selinux. :) 18:22:42 *tmh* is beginning to wonder. 18:22:52 foom: I sure as hell don't. 18:23:36 so you're going to write a targeted policy for this app that only lets it do what you've observed that it needs to do 18:23:53 i'm sure that'll be useful. :) 18:24:40 I use Xen and sandbox anything that need be.... SElinux makes no sense to me when virtualisation is so prevalent. 18:25:20 drewc: well, it does make some sense -- keeping software up to date is harder if you have 100 systems instead of 1. 18:25:32 even when all 100 systems are on the same actual one system. :) 18:25:49 *tmh* is pedantic. If SElinux is standard on the system, it must be there for a reason. 18:25:58 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:26:59 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:46 You know, I am a FreeBSD fan. I know FreeBSD, it worked well, it was simple. It ran. Then, I had to switch to linux to support clients and use some commercial software. It's been a nightmare. At least it's not Vista. A colleague of mine spent half of his billable hours last month fighting with windows. I only spend a quarter. :-) 18:27:50 drewc: SELinux has the purpose of not having any of the VMs compromised 18:28:26 drewc: I personally prefer TOMOYO 1.x instead of SELinux, though. Easier to configure 18:28:38 tmh: just disable SELinux, you don't have to use it just because redhat likes it.. 18:28:53 security schmecurity. 18:28:54 for me, TOMOYO only lacks MAC on syscalls 18:28:54 foom: that's what cfengine is for 18:28:59 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-34.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:29:08 foom: I'm nearly to that point. But that seems just wrong. 18:29:11 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-34.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:29:26 selinux is flipping useless. you can't even privilige-shed without being root 18:32:27 BrianRice` [n=water@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:27 I <3 lisp ... 200 lines of bottom-up code, never tested, compiles and runs perfectly save for one typo. 18:34:47 *tmh* holds his breath 18:34:50 my _brain_ is my repl! 18:35:04 That is never a good sign for me. It means I made some logical error. 18:36:05 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 18:36:09 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:00 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2D82.versanet.de] has quit [Success] 18:37:39 -!- wubbster_ [n=wubb@doc-24-206-235-153.kw.tx.cebridge.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:40:48 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:41:24 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp154.studby.uio.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:41:25 Does anyone know if there's a way to avoid inlining functions in Allegro? 18:41:50 tmh: BTW, if you are interested in advanced MAC without SELinux configuration problems, I recommend TOMOYO, especially 1.6.x line (2.2.x that ended in mainline is quite limited compared to 1.6.x due to use of LSM) 18:42:19 clhs notinline 18:42:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_inline.htm 18:42:20 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-71-59-210-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:42:51 stassats: The problem is: http://www.allegrocache.net/support/documentation/6.2/doc/compiling.htm#inline-ignored-2 18:43:03 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 18:43:32 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:52 p_l: Thanks. I'm really just interested in getting this to work. Actually, what I want is the port of VirtualBox to FreeBSD to progress far enough for me to run Linux and Windows in a virtual box on FreeBSD. Before I renew my RHEL license, I'm going to review that. 18:44:08 SELinux is a real distraction. 18:44:24 eli: "The compiler will observe the notinline declaration, however, so you can suppress inlining of specific functions if you want." 18:44:40 or you don't want inlining at all? 18:44:47 Bigshot_ pasted "problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83310 18:45:15 stassats: Ah, I completely missed that -- thanks. 18:45:24 tmh: TOMOYO has special learning mode - you set it so that the startup script for the app is considered a new security domain and put that domain into learning mode. Then run tests, then change policy mode on the domain to enforced 18:45:41 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 18:46:43 tmh: there's even an eclipse app that logs onto server that has TOMOYO installed through ssh and gives you nice interface to write your policy. Then switch to enforced, and you are clear :) 18:48:01 p_l: You've intrigued me enough to look at the website. :-) 18:48:44 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:49:06 -!- astalla [n=astalla@93-36-226-255.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Sto andando via"] 18:49:28 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:50:21 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 18:50:24 tmh: the funny thing is the naming... 18:50:42 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 18:50:47 and the fact that it got accepted by the parent company :P 18:51:09 (Dunno source of the naming scheme) 18:51:14 *about 18:52:12 p_l: Noticed that when I googled. I actually installed eclipse today because there is a plugin for editing policies. It was helpful and I just got the policy to work, I think. Now that I have eclipse, I think I'll install clojure and clojure-dev. 18:52:20 *tmh* covers head and ducks. 18:53:12 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:53:12 nah, install clojure-swank 18:54:32 schme: you there bud? 18:54:34 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:55:23 hmmm 18:55:47 so (function (setf foo)) is allowed. 18:56:11 Didn't realize that... 18:56:21 if (setf foo) is a function 18:56:23 that's how setf functions are implemented. 18:57:02 Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:57:52 where does it say that in chhs? 18:58:12 found it 18:59:18 -!- jyujin [n=mdeining@82.113.121.113] has quit [] 18:59:45 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 18:59:53 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has left #lisp 19:00:02 My bad. Sorry. 19:00:34 There are several new editions of patches, and one new patch, for paredit in . 19:01:56 Speaking of Clojure, what's the general feeling about it in the lisp community ? 19:02:07 Rubix__ [n=Rubix@pool-70-22-229-101.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:11 Yesterday I totally got lost editing some code with paredit. 19:02:14 Been tempted to have a play with it. 19:02:20 jao [n=jao@52.Red-83-43-32.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:22 antoszka, `lost'? 19:02:28 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:02:35 Riastradh: Typing is fine, but inserting text later on is beyond me yet :) 19:02:40 Riastradh: it can be confusing when you first use it. 19:02:48 antoszka, do you mean that paredit ate some of your code, or that paredit did something that you couldn't figure out, or that you couldn't figure out how to make paredit do what you want? 19:02:49 antoszka: read the cliki page about it. 19:03:11 it has some useful keychords for dealing with s-expressions. 19:03:15 Riastradh: Last two bits, I guess. I know it's me not getting it yet. 19:03:29 Riastradh: It was the first time I really tried to use it. 19:05:13 OK. You are welcome to ask specific questions about it. If you are a novice user, you probably shouldn't try these experimental patches, unless you observe some particular misbehaviour exhibited by paredit that may be fixed by one of the patches. 19:05:22 you cant expect to wield supreme executive power because some watery tart threw a sword at you 19:05:32 antoszka: You do need the cheatsheet at first. But I find it _very_ usful once you've figured it out! 19:05:56 I have defined 'sbcl in slime-lisp-implementations 19:06:13 -!- smoofra [n=user@cthulhu.elder-gods.org] has left #lisp 19:06:16 I want to put a line in .emacs, so that emacs automatically starts it 19:06:39 leo2007: really? i'm pretty serious about slime, but i don't think i would want slime to start every time i start emacs. 19:07:01 (slime 'sbcl) would be my first guess 19:07:08 how do I get a compiler notes tree ? I can go from error to error with M-n and M-p but I cant seem to get a list (Symbol's function definition is void: slime-list-compiler-notes) 19:07:26 simard: that's in a contrib now 19:07:29 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:07:35 demmel: Well, I obviously expect to find it such, just need to learn. 19:07:41 Riastradh: thx 19:07:44 Xach: there's just for demo purpose 19:07:58 ok 19:08:07 Riastradh: Are you the author of paredit? 19:08:37 Yes, demmel. 19:08:59 Riastradh: Well many thanks for writing it then! 19:09:05 *Riastradh* bows. 19:09:12 how to start it? (slime ...) or (slime-start ...) 19:09:50 Xach: I am putting together something for a demo, so I want user to be able to click Emacs and get right into slime 19:10:13 leo2007: did you see my message? 19:10:44 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.51.25] has joined #lisp 19:11:52 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:17 stassats: ahh, I have certainly tried that 19:12:53 and what are results? 19:13:24 Polling "/var/folders/b2/b2DGafs+EpaLFYrOC7ZWR++++TQ/-Tmp-/slime.58574".. (Abort with `M-x slime-abort-connection'.) [36 times] 19:13:51 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:14:26 leo2007: are you able to start slime in any other way, either? 19:14:32 stassats: can you have a look at my painstaking code? http://paste.lisp.org/display/83310 and tell me why it doesn't reply to '(a (b . c) d)? 19:14:36 leo2007: it sounds like your implementation is misconfigured 19:15:04 Xach can you? 19:15:21 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:15:23 Bigshot_: Sorry, I don't really want to look at it right now. 19:15:31 k 19:15:33 Bigshot_: good job switching to cond though! 19:16:02 conventional formatting would make it even easier to follow 19:16:39 demmel, if you have some time and would like to help with the development of the next version of paredit, please try some of the patches at . 19:17:13 Bigshot_: i'd rather write the whole thing myself than correcting yours, but that wouldn't be educational 19:17:37 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:50 :| 19:18:42 HG` [n=wells@85.8.71.215] has joined #lisp 19:18:48 Xach: it seems I got another sbcl running so that port has been blocked 19:19:45 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@85.5.55.63] has quit ["New paredit goodness - I should write some lisp..."] 19:19:53 how to stop sbcl from loading .sbclrc 19:20:01 --no-userinit is one way 19:21:21 Xach: excellent. one step closer to a working one 19:21:41 with (slime 'sbcl), it goes into the inferior lisp, no slime 19:22:20 if you've set the inferior lisp, you should be able to start slime just by calling (slime) 19:22:44 which is how clbuild configures slime when you ask it for a slime conf. 19:22:59 it displays Connected. Hacks and glory await! 19:23:12 but no actual slime buffer shows up 19:23:25 are you including slime-fancy in your slime-setup form? 19:23:26 Fade: that fails 19:23:41 Fade: no, shall I? 19:23:49 yes, or you won't have a repl. 19:23:49 yes 19:24:01 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:24:08 stassats: is my code too hard for you tor read? 19:24:15 s/tor/to 19:24:34 schme: you there bud? 19:24:37 it's no fun 19:24:43 why? 19:24:44 success!!!! 19:24:51 Many thanks folks 19:25:57 Bigshot_: uncommon indentation makes it hard 19:26:20 or whatever 19:26:51 elias` [n=c@host86-134-4-243.range86-134.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:24 Bigshot_: what do you think the form (listpp (cons 'd (cons (cons 'a 'b) (cons 'e nil)))) 19:27:27 should return? 19:27:35 Bigshot_: correcting code is a lot easier than correcting misconceptions or misunderstandings that led to the incorrect code in the first place. not everyone has the energy or patience to do it all the time. 19:27:57 Fade: nil 19:28:34 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:28:57 Fade: instead of returning nil it's returning the whole list 19:29:32 trace your nested util functions and see if they're returning what you expect. 19:30:01 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 19:30:03 things seem to be pretty ok just weird thing happened 19:30:18 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:30:44 is there print("%s, strg) like function to debug in lisp? 19:30:51 well, obviously there's an impedance mismatch between your expectation and what your code actually says. :) 19:31:04 so tease it apart 19:31:06 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 19:31:07 Bigshot_: FORMAT can do something like that. 19:31:08 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:31:15 Bigshot_: and a lot more. 19:31:23 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:31:38 format is awesome. 19:31:41 "impedance mismatch"? electronics jargon? 19:32:08 Bigshot_: is english your first language? 19:32:10 Electro-acoustic, mainly :) 19:32:40 in irc everybody is an idiom. :) 19:32:45 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:57 Fade: canadian, probably. it's similar. 19:33:08 Fade: may be hillbilly lang. 19:33:11 I speak canadian fluently. :) 19:33:40 Fade: in which function do you thing is the so called "impedance mismatch"? 19:33:47 s/thing/think 19:33:59 the mismatch is between what you think should happen and what is actually happening. 19:34:43 my suggestion is to instrument the code a little bit so you can find out if you're getting the expected inputs at the expected places. 19:35:40 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:36:03 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:36:07 -!- Jarv2 is now known as Jarvellis 19:36:24 instrument? english is really outta this world 19:36:33 how does one invoke the slime inspector ? 19:36:39 *Fade* scratches his head 19:36:44 simard: C-c I is one way 19:36:48 simard: M-x slime-inspect is another 19:36:55 I hate emacs's startup screen. it is getting in the way 19:37:13 leo2007: I just wrote a blog entry about that yesterday. :) 19:37:13 any idea how to disable it from showing up without changing user-init-file? 19:37:20 simard: Right click on a presentation, then "Inspect" 19:37:23 I'd like to do it in site-start.el 19:37:25 http://fuhm.livejournal.com/ 19:37:31 foom: reading 19:38:59 foom: that only works for emacs 22 19:39:08 leo2007: what emacs are you using? 19:39:19 they have taken extra measures to make sure you get annoyed 19:39:25 emacs 23.1.50 19:39:25 inhibit-splash-screen 19:39:32 Fade annotated #83310 "Bigshot lists reflowed" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83310#1 19:39:38 stassats: that only works if you put it in user-init-file 19:39:52 Bigshot_: let slime indent your code for you. 19:39:52 leo2007: are you sure that snippet doesn't work in 23? 19:40:05 if it doesn't I'm sure updating it to do so will be pretty trivial 19:40:07 it'll allow people to read it 19:40:08 What's the easiest way to only recompile the stuff in sbcl/src/runtime/ ? 19:40:23 tcr: slam.sh 19:40:47 foom: I am observing the same splash screen 19:40:47 leo2007: (run-hooks 'after-init-hook) 19:40:53 assuming you have sb-after-xc-core. 19:40:57 leo2007: (obviously don't put it in /etc/emacs22 though...) 19:41:22 pkhuong: When would I not have that? 19:41:40 tcr: it's not in the default features. 19:41:47 Fade: how did ya indent it was it automatic? 19:41:57 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 19:41:59 Bigshot_: the let in listpp-check-car is sort of redundant. 19:42:09 yeah 19:42:15 M-q in emacs 19:42:28 put your point inside the form, and hit M-q 19:42:40 assuming slime, and (possibly) paredit. 19:42:47 though doesn't show me a splash screen with after-init-hook either 19:43:01 s/with/without/ 19:43:30 Fade: Or C-c M-q if you use the slime-editing-commands contrib (subsumed by slime-fancy) 19:43:33 C-M-q on opening paren works to indent in default slime 19:43:43 *Fade* nods 19:43:50 Right, C-M-a C-M-q, or C-c M-q 19:44:05 The latter is nicer because it doesn't change point 19:44:12 foom: no, I put it in my site-start.el 19:44:17 leo2007: Now I'm installing emacs-snapshot just for you. :) 19:44:18 and it didn't work 19:44:22 foom: thanks 19:44:37 foom: do you where to download it? 19:44:41 know* 19:44:51 got it from http://emacs.orebokech.com/ 19:44:55 stassats: where to put ook) 19:45:03 20:40 assuming (run-hooks 'after-init-hook) 19:45:11 sorry 19:45:19 I mean where to put (run-hooks 'after-init-hook) 19:45:44 foom: http://atomized.org/wp-content/cocoa-emacs-nightly/ 19:45:59 I have been using ieur's build for a few months 19:46:06 Jasko3 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:06 i have inhibit-splash-screen not in .emacs and it works ok 19:46:26 stassats: yes, but only in .emacs 19:46:41 wow did i really write hard to understand code? 19:46:54 i start it as emacs -q --load file-where-it-is.el 19:47:28 ok 19:47:37 setting it in after-init-hook works 19:47:50 foom: note above 19:47:52 come on guys i've got i've spen 5 and half hours after this code 19:47:58 s/spen/spent 19:48:31 Bigshot_: come on what? 19:48:31 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 19:48:45 leo2007: perhaps you are setting it to nil somewhere else 19:48:57 come on for enlightenment 19:49:12 stassats: no 19:49:22 pkhuong: Thanks, I'm rebuilding. 19:49:26 Bigshot_: have you tried any of the suggestions we've made so far? 19:49:27 the variable specifically says it won't work setting in site-start.el 19:49:32 what's its value after start-up? 19:49:36 it won't do you any good if we do all the work. 19:49:41 stassats: as I said, *it only works in .emacs* 19:49:57 stassats: but I just tried my blog's recommendation on emacs23 19:50:01 er, leo2007: 19:50:04 it worked 19:50:20 well, i use it not from .emacs and it works fine 19:50:21 Fade: i indented the code and eyeballed the code things look smooth for one level deep list 19:50:42 trace listpp-check-car and see what it shows when you run. 19:50:55 stassats: if you set it to t in site-start.el and start Emacs without user-init-file, it is nil after startup 19:51:05 stassats: the emacs startup code has contortions to keep it from working in site-start code 19:51:10 RMS specifically wants people to be aware of his product 19:51:22 Fade: how can i trace it? 19:51:37 leo2007: anyhow, so the defadvice still works fine in emacs-snapshot -- maybe the file you added it to doesn't get run? 19:51:58 as i said before, "emacs -q --load file-where-it-is-set.el" works for me 19:52:21 foom: thanks anyway, I am glad i get the splash screen out of the way ;) 19:52:34 now I disable sbcl from loading user-init 19:52:43 does it load any system init? 19:52:47 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 19:53:19 wasn't you told that already? --no-userinit 19:53:34 stassats: indeed...but that's annoying, and I rather fix annoying features that software authors try to shove down your throat. :) 19:53:49 and --no-sysinit 19:53:58 (trace ) 19:55:00 stassats: now I am in a sbcl session, how to find out where it loads sysinit? I want to set up something there 19:55:15 /etc/sbclrc 19:55:30 Fade: how to activate this trace? 19:55:34 or --sysinit option 19:55:40 you know, man sbcl is worth reading 19:56:07 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:56:13 mjf [n=mjf@r11gz66.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 19:56:55 Bigshot_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/83316 19:57:26 stassats: thanks, I will be able to fix it 19:58:39 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:58:47 it looks to me like listpp-check-car always returns a list, even when there's only one element. 19:59:04 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 20:00:40 Fade: incorrect listpp-check-car calls listpp-is-a-dot and return a "nil" 20:01:04 s/return/returns 20:01:12 I have the trace right here, and it definitely doesn't do that. 20:02:24 http://paste.lisp.org/+1SAC#1 20:03:24 what you imagine this code does when you visualise it in your head is not what it actually does when it's executed. 20:03:48 *Fade* shrugs 20:03:57 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:03:58 anyhow, I have to get on to other stuff. good luck. 20:04:01 the answer is: read SICP 20:04:09 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-34.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:04:39 Good morning. 20:05:05 Riastradh: I will have a look at them 20:05:13 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-34.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:05:59 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-168-234-152.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:51 Xach stassats and foom: many thanks for helping out. I have set up an Emacs that get into slime directly and run the program I need. 20:07:14 Fade: cool i just had to replace listpp-is-a-dot by ((not (listp y)) "ok") 20:07:38 i do not know what has changed, but SBCL 1.0.29 is order of magnitudes faster to start up on darwin and bsd then 1.0 at least. really nice. :) 20:08:21 30 months is something 20:08:50 -!- zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:09:14 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:10:43 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-172-094.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #lisp 20:11:26 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 20:12:47 -!- phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 20:13:47 willb [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:19 finally the "trace" from fade really helped! 20:16:11 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:16:33 -!- simard [n=user@pcms05.grm.polymtl.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:19:15 Bigshot_: you should really take a look at PCL 20:19:17 -!- s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-160-164-146.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:19:31 Fade: how come my repl is not showing the trace? 20:19:55 minion: tell Bigshot_ about PCL 20:19:56 Bigshot_: direct your attention towards PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 20:20:12 Bigshot_: what do you mean? 20:20:38 when i do (trace listpp) and then call (listpp '(a b c)) i get not race 20:20:44 get no trace** 20:21:05 Dunno. it always works here. what lisp are you using? 20:21:07 (define-condition something () ()) (handler-case (error 'something) (error (e) (format t "Got an error: ~A" e))) 20:21:15 I'm not sure why that doesn't catch something. ;\ 20:21:17 Fade: i am using slime 20:21:19 on emacs 20:21:29 /w sbcl? 20:21:33 no clisp 20:21:38 sykopomp: no error superclass? 20:21:41 Riastradh: zoinking seems useful. Have you thought about appropriate key combinations yet? 20:21:53 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.51.25] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:21:53 I never use clisp. perhaps there's some invocation you need to make it work. 20:22:07 stassats: is there a way to catch it even when it doesn't have a superclass? 20:22:20 demmel, I've thought about key bindings, but without many good ideas. 20:22:30 (handler-case (error 'something) (condition (e) (format t "Got an error: ~A" e))) 20:22:44 oh thank you :) 20:23:19 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:27 when I start a clisp repl, and I trace listpp-func etc, it traces. 20:23:50 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:51 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:23:55 but slime eats the trace it looks like Fade 20:24:06 if you trace listpp, you get a single call and a single return, in clisp. 20:24:12 look in *inferior-lisp* buffer 20:24:35 (setf *trace-output* *standard-output*) 20:24:39 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r11gz66.net.upc.cz] has quit ["GNU is *indeed* No UNIX!"] 20:25:14 that must be a trait of the slime+clisp combination. 20:25:36 trait of communication-style NIL 20:25:57 I have a very barebones slime setup /w sbcl, and it "just works" :) 20:26:01 Riastradh: C-M-z ?? 20:26:26 francogrex [n=franco@91.179.243.207] has joined #lisp 20:26:30 Fade: it uses :spawn where available by default 20:26:31 Riastradh: its unbound in my configuration 20:26:40 stassats: ahh 20:26:41 hi guys, f2CL question/help ok? 20:27:15 type (array f2cl-lib:integer4 (*)) t$ table) 20:27:29 stassats: it still doesn't show any trace 20:27:43 no wonder 20:27:44 what is the form is it expecting for t$ and table? 20:27:51 Bigshot_: update your slime 20:28:24 I read some stuff from 2004 about Allgro wanting to introduce a quasi standard for environment access (beyond whats in cltl2). Does anyone know what ever became of that? 20:28:24 francogrex: that's a slightly esoteric package. may not be anybody here familiar with it. 20:28:27 francogrex: a vector of some integers 20:28:36 ElemonGW [n=giorgos@unaffiliated/elemongw] has joined #lisp 20:28:49 hi stassats, something like that is not accepted 2A#((2 3) (4 5)) 20:29:00 sure, it ain't no vector 20:29:00 neither that #(2 3 4 5) 20:29:08 well, "some" integers 20:29:19 i don't know what they are 20:30:06 you got source code, look it up for yourself 20:30:21 ok maybe some error code can help: In function AREF, the value of index is -1 which is not of expected type (INTEGER 0 3) 20:30:45 ok, 20:31:18 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-1228.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:18 demmel, `C-M-z' has some precedent as a region evaluation command, and that's only one key -- there must be at least three (paredit-zoink-sexps-by-depth, paredit-zoink-surrounding-sexps, and paredit-unzoink-sexps-command). 20:31:25 i will look in the f2cl sources 20:31:36 hope to find something 20:31:39 is fortran 1-based? 20:32:13 f77 20:32:27 77-based? 20:32:50 where do arrays start in fortran, at 0 or at 1? 20:33:49 no I meant it was fortran 77 code 20:34:10 Riastradh: C-M-Z to unzoink. And can't you distinguish between by-detph and surrounding by checking if a mark is set in an apporiate place, or emacs is in transient-makr-mode or something (I don't know how marking works exactly...) 20:34:31 seems they start at 1 20:35:21 then -1 error could make some sense 20:35:36 demmel, C-M-Z as in C-M-S-z, with three modifier keys? 20:35:51 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:36:01 Riastradh: yup 20:36:11 Riastradh: i can type that with one hand 20:36:21 Riastradh: (on us keybord) 20:36:23 with a fist 20:36:42 stassats: :) 20:37:05 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.54.240] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:37:10 C-M-% isn't better 20:37:29 but you would think they take care of that 20:37:29 I always use M-x query-replace 20:37:43 -!- ski [n=slj@85.224.17.144] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:37:44 the 0 to 1 shift 20:38:38 I use C-M-% it's easier to remember 20:39:40 i remember not symbols, but position on the keyboard 20:39:41 Riastradh: Do you think you could use the same binding for "by-depth" and "surrounding-sexp", distinguishing by somehow analysing the state of marking? 20:40:07 stassats: Well, I'm used to the symbols due to elisp hacking 20:40:48 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-118-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:41:03 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-92-34.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:41:52 ski [n=slj@c-9011e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:42:41 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-12-30.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:42:53 demmel, no, because zoinking by depth and zoinking surrounding S-expressions both use the region (optionally, in the latter case). 20:47:39 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 20:49:22 Riastradh: hmm. Without key bindings it wont be very usefull :) 20:50:28 hi, how do I append two vectors? 20:50:46 -!- Jarvellis is now known as Elench 20:51:08 clhs concatenate 20:51:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_concat.htm 20:51:48 stassats: thanks 20:57:47 -!- willb [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:58:49 willb [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:46 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:00:19 Riastradh: btw how are you supposed to load the files? with require ? 21:01:29 with load, i guess 21:01:31 phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:51 -!- phf [n=phf@host.icnfull.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:01:59 -!- mkfort [i=fiH5Hoht@68-189-164-209.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 21:02:02 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@89.132.189.132] has quit ["..."] 21:02:05 mkfort [n=mkfort@68-189-164-209.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:16 -!- mkfort [n=mkfort@68-189-164-209.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:02:18 mkfort_ [i=wHIH32zh@68-189-164-209.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:30 whats the difference in elisp? 21:02:59 -!- mkfort_ [i=wHIH32zh@68-189-164-209.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:03:32 for one, you need provide before require 21:03:37 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:03:44 mkfort [i=tffEZqTa@68-189-164-209.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:13 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:20 demmel, use the `load' function, or the `load-file' command, or just open the file in Emacs and type `M-x eval-buffer RET'. 21:04:38 `require' won't work -- or rather, it will have the effect of loading a file, and then it will signal an error. 21:04:58 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 21:05:20 so why can i require paredit but not paredit-indent? 21:05:31 Because paredit.el is set up so that you can use `require'. 21:05:41 because it has no provide? 21:06:39 stassats: i see. 21:07:19 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:08:04 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@113.77.28.43] has joined #lisp 21:10:26 Riastradh: I like the zoink. 21:10:44 wubbster [n=wubb@doc-24-206-235-153.kw.tx.cebridge.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:38 -!- Elench [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:12:22 stassats: isn't (handler-case ... (condition () ..)) supposed to be a catch-all for any conditions? :( 21:13:07 what conditions are slipping? 21:13:16 a flexi-stream condition 21:13:22 FLEXI-STREAMS:EXTERNAL-FORMAT-ENCODING-ERROR 21:13:45 well, you could do (t () ...) 21:13:52 hm 21:13:59 to catch everything what moves 21:16:04 It's still suspicious that the above is not a subtype of CONDITION 21:16:26 hm. Maybe I'm just trying to handle the error in the wrong place. 21:16:46 yes, perhaps it's been handled already? 21:17:08 tcr: it wouldn't pop me into the debugger if it had, right? 21:17:57 Uh, well, not necessarily 21:18:36 sykopomp: You should probably set *break-on-signals* to the above error 21:18:58 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:19:08 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@63.83.115.122] has joined #lisp 21:19:12 sykopomp: the catch all type is T. 21:19:24 clhs *break-on-signals* 21:19:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_break_.htm 21:19:36 sykopomp: but it's not a good idea to catch all... 21:19:40 pjb: yeah, which is why I'm thinking I may have put teh handler in the wrong place. 21:19:52 Doesn't define-condition make everything it defines a subtype of CONDITION ? 21:20:48 Of course, perhaps you're still allowed to signal any datum, not just conditions 21:20:52 Yes. But the question is whether signal rejects non condition objects. 21:21:02 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 21:21:33 -!- demmel [n=demmel@a031.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [] 21:22:27 SIGNAL expects a condition. We're safe! :-) 21:22:34 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-083-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:37 -!- wubbster [n=wubb@doc-24-206-235-153.kw.tx.cebridge.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:23:43 -!- mk [n=mk@unaffiliated/mk] has left #lisp 21:24:08 I'm surprised drakma lets that flexi-stream error leak through. 21:24:12 would that be a bug? 21:24:25 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-19-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:26:32 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@41.247.203.169] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:26:50 -!- Rubix__ [n=Rubix@pool-70-22-229-101.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:26:58 wubbster [n=wubb@doc-24-206-235-153.kw.tx.cebridge.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:46 eheh, "Phosphorous, The Popular Lisp" -- http://jfm3.org/phosphorous.pdf 21:28:12 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 21:29:05 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:29:46 -!- willb [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:30:18 willb [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:30:40 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@113.77.28.43] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:31:37 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:47 Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 21:33:23 yeah, that's funny 21:35:11 -!- hezy [n=hezy@62.56.254.158] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:36:26 mlLK [n=cs@98.220.171.58] has joined #lisp 21:36:40 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:37:29 who is SPH? 21:37:57 SPH :No such nick/channel 21:38:03 simard [n=user@pcms05.grm.polymtl.ca] has joined #lisp 21:38:27 what is the equivalent of mapcar for collections ? (for example a string) 21:38:36 clhs map 21:38:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_map.htm 21:38:37 map 21:38:58 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:16 did naggum ever log here? 21:39:28 -!- mlLK is now known as asdfqwer 21:44:13 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:44:37 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-63.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 21:44:53 when I specify a relative file name such as kk.csv, how does sbcl decide where to save it? 21:45:07 clhs *d-p-d* 21:45:07 *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS*: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_defaul.htm 21:45:12 On os x, it is saved to my HOME dir, on linux it is saved to the current dir 21:45:56 heh. "gosling tarpit" 21:46:11 specbot: thanks 21:46:37 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@oemrawsingh.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:46:52 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:47:32 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 21:49:31 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:50:53 -!- HG` [n=wells@85.8.71.215] has quit [Client Quit] 21:52:07 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:56:47 -!- willb [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:57:18 willb [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:58:52 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:59:02 is there an obvious way to do this more simply ? (apply 'concatenate (append (list 'string) (map 'list #'(lambda (c) (concatenate 'string (character-to-morse c) " ")) string))) 21:59:08 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:59:34 string is for example "hello world" and character-to-morse should be well known around here.. it returns a string from a char 21:59:34 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 21:59:38 what is it trying to do? 21:59:52 translating a string of text to it's morse code equivalent 21:59:54 *_3b* guesses format nil might help 22:00:44 rouslan_ [n=Rouslan@pool-71-161-70-183.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:14 first, learn about spreadable arguments lists 22:01:16 clhs apply 22:01:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 22:01:21 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:01:26 <_3b> maybe with-output-to-string 22:03:04 lukego [n=lukegorr@84-75-21-37.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:03:51 -!- TDT [i=dthole@dhcp80ff869b.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:04:09 (format nil "~{~a~^ ~}" (map 'list 'char-morse string)) 22:06:41 well that's certainly shorter 22:07:38 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:11 and simpler. but what's "simpler"? 22:09:10 -!- francogrex [n=franco@91.179.243.207] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:09:52 -!- LiamH [n=none@208.72.159.207] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:10:12 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 22:10:47 simple is something I don't feel like writing a lot to do little :) 22:13:30 i'd like map which appends strings 22:13:58 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:14:03 (not that i can't write it) 22:16:26 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@c-98-210-13-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:18:44 clhs char-morse 22:18:44 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for char-morse. 22:18:56 clhs character-to-morse 22:18:57 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for character-to-morse. 22:19:16 thought you meant it was a standard function lol 22:19:34 benny [n=benny@i577A18D7.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:21:16 ajray [n=NCSU_Boo@nom27538d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 22:21:53 -!- dto [n=user@98.118.1.212] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:21:58 dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:07 -!- kidd [n=kidd@111.Red-193-152-161.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:23:22 -!- dto` is now known as dto 22:23:48 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-174-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 22:24:39 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:24:51 blandest [n=blandest@79.112.96.58] has joined #lisp 22:26:44 -!- Dromiceius [n=anon@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["I gotta go! 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23:36:11 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:36:50 >1 23:37:12 nerdshark [n=dorkfish@74-131-91-175.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 23:37:55 remove comp-list as parameter from compress-list 23:38:00 even then it doesn't compile 23:38:15 do you have a function named >1 ? 23:38:50 that function is called in line 5 of your paste 23:38:55 saikat_ [n=saikat@c-67-169-69-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:10 you aren't reading compiler messages? 23:39:17 you might mean (> 1 (length ... 23:39:20 hi, i'm having trouble compiling lispbuilder-sdl w/ clbuild. pastebin: http://lisp.pastebin.com/m4630bd6a 23:39:21 nope mistake thanks 23:39:33 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:40:00 piso: i fixed that still the connection breaks! 23:40:11 using sbcl installed from arch repo, version 1.0.28 23:40:22 well, as stassats` suggested, look at your compiler messages! 23:40:28 connection breaks? 23:40:34 yes 23:40:44 what connection? 23:40:46 the connection or the compilation? 23:40:47 slime connection 23:40:55 when i try to compile 23:41:18 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:32 take a peek at the *inferior-lisp* buffer .. you might see what's going on and why there 23:41:35 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 23:41:59 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:46:12 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-121.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 23:50:47 elem in line 6 is an undefined variable 23:51:14 two many args for PUSH in line 14 23:51:32 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:51:32 *too many 23:52:08 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:15 Bigshot_ annotated #83332 "says "push-elem compressed" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83332#1 23:54:25 yeah, and list is used as a variable even though it isn't .. etc. .. though, it's probably a good idea to get the tools sorted before worrying about coding 23:54:31 strange the code doesnt't compile 23:54:48 piso i corrected all that 23:55:09 no, you still have too many args for PUSH in line 7 23:55:10 0 errors 0 warnings still code breaks connection 23:55:30 uh, there is nothing strange about nothin' here 23:55:33 (push elem len compressed) 23:55:52 that's 3 args, PUSH wants only 2 23:56:09 ahh i see 23:56:15 -!- ElemonGW [n=giorgos@unaffiliated/elemongw] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:57:43 demmel_ [n=demmel@dslb-094-216-087-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:11 you should fix the connection-going-down problem .. you're just wasting your time wandering around in the dark like this 23:58:23 -!- pjb [n=t@85-169-63-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:59:00 lnostdal: I think Bigshot_ is using clisp, and clisp BREAKs on the wrong-number-of-args-for-PUSH problem 23:59:33 is that what's happening, Bigshot_ ? 23:59:35 ..and that causes the connection to go down?