00:00:17 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-89-53.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 00:00:52 -!- rob1111 [n=rob@c-68-35-98-127.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit ["Easy bub. I used to read a lot of Wolverine comics."] 00:00:55 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-101-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:02:01 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:08:00 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177126000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:08:20 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:31 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@ip70-162-187-21.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:12 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:15:10 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-40-97.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:16:37 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:19:30 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:20:43 phearle [n=phearle@c-24-63-120-211.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:10 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:23:00 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:58 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 00:25:53 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:27:44 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 00:29:46 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:29:52 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:47 -!- clop [n=jared@99.23.192.153] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:38:52 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has quit ["Valete!"] 00:40:20 This might be a question that "should never be asked", but why use pure lisp libraries for something instead of highly optimized external libraries with ffi? (e.g. bordeaux-fft and fftw) 00:40:31 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-141-153.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:40:53 Sikander: depends on the library and what you want to do with it. Also remember that FFI has performance drop on calls 00:42:39 Sikander: sport. 00:42:48 Well, for instance, netlib (lapack, odepack ...) are very optimized and used for many years (so I expect it to be relatively bugfree). It would make sense to make ffi bindings and use those than spend ages writing and polishing lisp code, no? 00:42:56 hefner: Ok, I can understand THAT :) 00:43:02 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:07 plus, foreign code smells bad. 00:43:21 it is written by barbarians, after all. 00:43:32 I can understand that ffi sucks when you want to have something "cross-platform" 00:43:46 But I don't have much experience there. 00:46:32 -!- phearle [n=phearle@c-24-63-120-211.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:48:02 Sikander: some of us have as an objective to see how much you can write in pure Lisp, and then to compare it to more traditional solutions in say C with respect to speed, conciseness, maintainability, etc. 00:48:39 Sikander: as opposed to just "getting the job done whether it be with Lisp or something else". 00:49:23 ok, I was just thinking of using lisp instead of python for many things, and when necessary use existing libraries (lisp or ffi bindings, whichever I can find) to do the job 00:50:22 Sikander: deploying pure lisp (if you get over the whole initial "it's lisp" hurdle) on multiple platforms can be easier than trying to work out how to make sure the right libraries are installed 00:50:24 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@dhcp-11-166.ucsc.edu] has quit [] 00:51:28 Sikander: i had an interesting experience with skippy, the gif library i wrote 00:51:49 Sikander: it is actually faster at producing animated gifs than other libraries in C 00:51:56 Xach: Heheh, well, that's where I'm different. I'm not "deploying" anything, I'm just a guy that hacks code together to make my life simpler. But I got carried away when reading about lisp 00:52:23 Xach: ! That says more about your skills than about the guys writing the C libraries methinks 00:52:32 -!- cl-newb [n=john@c-67-183-22-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:52:38 Xach: I mean more about your skills than the language 00:52:49 (or not?) 00:53:30 Sikander: i don't really think so. 00:53:34 I was just thinking, eg SBCL code is blazing fast, it's true, but aren't C compilers supposed to be highly optimized (purely due to the size of the community working in that language)? 00:53:44 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 00:53:48 Sikander: I think it says that if you are using a language that forces you to spend most of your energy on satisfying the constraints of it rather than letting you concentrate on you problem (algorithms, data structures, etc), then you are very likely to produce suboptimal code. 00:54:20 Sikander: the problem being bad quality of C code and the fact that it's rather low-level so you can't optimize automatically too much... otoh, you have the infamous "sufficiently smart compiler" 00:54:27 It can be so hard to get something even working in C that there's not always a lot of incentive to explore different strategies 00:54:48 exactly! 00:54:50 Xach: hey, that actually makes a lot of sense! 00:55:12 I find that now I'm using lisp, I continuously try other things, like use different data types, or other algorithms... 00:55:20 In C I actually never did that... 00:55:27 Or not so often anyway 00:55:39 in C, I never used hash tables =p 00:56:22 Ok, thanks for the clarification guys 00:57:59 -!- lambda-avenger [n=roman@adsl-63-197-150-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 00:59:36 hefner: speaking of C, wouldn't a C app have the same delivery issues wrt dynamic libraries? 00:59:58 *hefner* didn't say anything about delivery issues 01:00:12 (ugh, sorry, apropos [cffi-devel] librt soname) 01:00:38 maybe, but presumably when I link with -lrt, ld knows what it's doing. 01:00:58 (besides, debian compiles all my C programs. that's their problem ;) 01:01:15 in fact, let's as ld! 01:01:18 *ask 01:01:36 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:01:57 sorry, I'm being particularly unclear tonight. I meant the issue you raised with an hypothetical libshuffletron-mpg123. 01:02:11 (ldd says librt.so.1 => /lib/librt.so.1 (0x00002b078f40a000)) 01:05:46 luis: probably. I've never had to deal with it. I get the impression that big C programs with private libraries don't install them in /usr/local, though. 01:05:46 what is this about linking and librt? 01:07:17 not /usr/local/lib, I mean. /usr/local/somewhere, surely. 01:07:50 like $INSTALLDIR/lib ;-) 01:08:03 phearle [n=phearle@c-24-63-120-211.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:03 luis pasted "google-chrome wrapper" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82985 01:08:13 there's a solution. 01:09:01 well, how exactly the path is searched depends on program interpreter 01:09:41 nothing stops you from creating your own program interpreter on ELF-based systems, except from craziness of such solution 01:11:10 WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has joined #lisp 01:14:05 luis: that leads to another question of mine, namely what role cffi:*foreign-library-directories* plays, and how that interacts with whatever means the system's dynamic loader normally uses to find libraries. 01:15:17 commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 01:16:53 hefner: cffi:*f-l-d* kicks in when the system's loader fails to load a library. 01:18:01 koft [n=kvirc@adsl-144-190-3.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:55 how do you use exponents in lisp? (^ 5 5 ) fails 01:20:07 clhs expt 01:20:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_exp_e.htm 01:20:10 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 01:20:59 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 01:21:25 cool. thanks 01:21:51 hefner: we use it in the test suite to load libtest.so (see tests/bindings.lisp). I suppose it's not terribly useful. It just seemed like a good idea at the time. 01:24:05 saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:08 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-159-159.netcologne.de] has quit ["good night"] 01:29:57 I tried this the other night, just by exporting LD_LIBRARY_PATH=. from the makefile before compiling, but it didn't work. Now it does. Odd. 01:32:12 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:32:24 anyway, the computer is repeatedly screwing me, and it feels like something is trying to beat its way out of my skull, so I'll just let this rest until tomorrow. 01:33:37 hefner: dynamic linking is screwy 01:34:00 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:36:02 *p_l* still doesn't know what the hell did he trigger with dynamic loader on MIPS, but doesn't have will to tackle it 01:37:11 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:37:42 -!- ausente [n=user7994@187.35.196.144] has quit ["Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de"] 01:38:02 ausente [n=user7994@187.35.196.144] has joined #lisp 01:43:56 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:30 -!- tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p923e6b.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:48:57 -!- mogunus1 [n=marco@wsip-70-184-14-138.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:55:29 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-101-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:55:48 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-103-94.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:57:57 plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has joined #lisp 01:58:27 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 01:58:46 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:00:43 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:00:44 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 02:06:43 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:12:59 sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:47 commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 02:48:17 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:17 02:48:17 -!- names: ccl-logbot RenJuan jimi_hendrix Adlai syamajala sellout shmho plage sepult quek dalton antoszka koft WarWeasle phearle ia davazp joast dto ianmcorvidae krumholt__ jao nvoorhies ``Erik benny stepnem Tordek mkfort zophy[] [df]_ rdd maxote redline65611 s0ber ace4016 Patzy TDT md22 eno wlr aja frodef legumbre froydnj stassats` proq slyrus_ |stern| TR2N amnesiac Swordsman ahaas Fufie hyperboreean Phoodus mattrepl bgs100 sohail Adamant kefka tmh 02:48:17 -!- names: Taggnostr matimago cracki daniel__ Buganini delYsid rstandy plutonas schme KingNato prip Demosthenes Quadrescence Ginei_Morioka JAS415 rey_ ceineke holycow rtoym keithr mgr oudeis BrianRice xristos Gertm kidd rread kleppari Jasko foom lemoinem srcerer abeaumont bdowning a-s antifuchs kuhzoo Soulman__ dmiles_afk erg Xach nicktastic tessier arbscht_ kei nasloc__ ecraven Dazhbog Pepe_ sytse younder mikezor alexbobp piso kpreid housel drewc A_anekos 02:48:17 -!- names: enn rbancroft mathrick deepfire michaelw specbot TekLok kuwabara p8m jsnell guaqua carbocal` djinni` kmcorbett1 smoofra peddie araujo Guest49718 JeLuF bobf billstclair dostoyevsky ironChicken herbieB sad0ur lisppaste rsynnott Bucciarati authentic dalkvist blast_hardcheese Qsource willb spacebat_ lde wgl borism_ Numlock hefner ramus` Ralith meingbg nowhere_man bob_f slyrus yango KingThomasV phadthai xinming qebab CrazyEddy pragma_ mtd REPLeffect 02:48:17 -!- names: Khisanth Bigshot_ ineiros_ dtulig AntiSpamMeta cmm madnificent Zhivago myrkraverk lnostdal trebor_dki easyE seejay erk cp2 Modius sykopomp Draggor leo2007 _3b` sbahra cyb3r3li0g johs jrockway cods vsync mornfall Drakeson joga cYmen minion z0d felipe sciendan Kirklander r0bby fnordus yahooooo Xof boyscared azanar luis ilitirit tarbo egn zbigniew vcgomes bun_bun tcoppi acieroid Chris koollman jlf pjb ski Fade sepisultrum cavelife^ p_l bohanlon 02:48:17 -!- names: chii pok krappie noptys guenthr rotty rlonstein bfein dcrawford Aisling Borbus jkantz ineiros l_a_m Bootvis _3b azuk` dfox Orest^bnc scode Adrinael Riastradh DrForr Axioplase_ tvaalen gz galdor djkthx retupmoca clog thijso sjbach 02:50:03 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:28 icylisper [n=user@115.99.32.68] has joined #lisp 02:53:15 commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 02:55:52 is there a way in lisp to do a while (expression is true) loop? 02:56:07 commmmodo: (loop while do ) 02:56:09 http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/doc/cl/loop.html i was looking at this page, but it only shows how to do increment/decrement uses of while 02:56:12 ok 02:56:15 thanks plage 02:56:22 anytime 02:56:38 *WarWeasle* shuts up and listens... 02:57:58 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-103-94.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 02:59:42 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 03:00:50 do i need asdf tar ball or just asdf.lisp to intall climacs? 03:01:17 "asdf tar ball"? 03:01:33 asdf.tar.gz 03:01:37 Bigshot_: What implementation are you using? 03:02:00 mcclim, flexichain, spatial-trees, 03:02:46 Bigshot_: er, mcclim is probably not in any asdf tar ball. 03:02:52 minion: tell Bigshot_ about clbuild 03:02:54 Bigshot_: please look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 03:03:01 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-56-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 03:03:04 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.165.238] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:03:12 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.63.135] has joined #lisp 03:03:21 plage: will this script work on windows? vista HP? 03:03:53 Bigshot_: I have no idea. But if you are using Windows, you probably have some more significant problems anyway. 03:11:44 plage: how can i use clbuild to use climacs? 03:12:37 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-56-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:13:18 Bigshot_: you are on rather perilous tract - you could try running under cygwin + some X server 03:15:34 i would like to travel this perilous thingy and try installing climacs 03:15:53 *hefner* wonders if climacs runs under gtkairo 03:16:03 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.4.36] has joined #lisp 03:16:28 wtf this clbuild requires lot of packages man i am .... 03:17:15 I'm pretty sure clbuild isn't going to work on windows, and mcclim has so few dependencies that it'd be more work installing clbuild. 03:17:16 what is this "hg"? 03:17:34 how can i install this hg ? 03:18:06 Bigshot_: Mercurial 03:18:14 a Distributed Version Control System 03:18:19 ya and also how can i make this clbuild accept "clisp" instead of sbcl? 03:18:38 but yes, right now it might be easier to manually install rather than try making clbuild work... 03:19:11 Man, if not for broken licensing on my windows machine, I might have tried writing something for powershell 03:19:17 p_l: i tried installing climacs but it gave me errors 03:19:33 so i am now trying this clbuild 03:19:44 also what's the packages name? mercurial hg? 03:19:46 -!- krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-89-53.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:20:04 p_l: do i need to get sbcl or can i make it work with clisp? 03:21:14 Bigshot_: www.selenic.com/mercurial/ <--- mercurial's web page 03:21:19 Bigshot_: you can try with clisp 03:21:25 how? 03:21:43 but srsly, making clbuild run on windows seems like higher hackery than I consider healthy at the moment 03:21:48 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@147.52.194.195] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:23:39 p_l: i am installing it on jaunty 03:23:46 clbuild.conf 03:23:57 Perhaps the best thing would be to start by installing Linux 03:24:23 "CLISP is supported by clbuild, but hardly any application works." <--- comment in clbuild.conf 03:27:25 p_l: but climacs "uses" clisp doesn't it? 03:27:48 Bigshot_: dunno. If you're installing on linux, I recommend going with SBCL. Less problems 03:28:44 p_l: Question about SBCL vs clozure? SBCL is native vs a java-machine in clozure, right? 03:30:28 What does the Java part do for clozure? I mean, why not just go native? 03:30:30 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@121.13.179.193] has joined #lisp 03:31:41 what is this git? 03:33:12 what's the whole package name so that i can install? 03:33:25 -!- sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:34:20 WarWeasle: what are you talking about? 03:34:22 what java? 03:35:28 clozure runs on the Java Virtual Machine. If I am reading this correctly. 03:35:43 where are you reading this nonsense? 03:37:01 Bigshot_: apt-get install git-core , git is a distributed version control system 03:38:11 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-143.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 03:38:59 clbuild installed climacs now how to start it ?:| 03:39:14 Bigshot_: (climacs:climacs) 03:39:20 [I think] 03:39:49 stassats`: http://trac.clozure.com/openmcl/wiki/ReleaseNotes/1.3 03:39:51 where should i type that? i typed it in clisp but no package found :| 03:40:00 Bigshot_: climacs doesn't "use" clisp. 03:40:09 Bigshot_: You can type it in any REPL. 03:40:10 Bigshot_: clbuild run climacs 03:40:42 stassats`: So Clozure compiles to native code? 03:41:07 yes it does, i don't where in your link you get impression that it does compile to java 03:41:22 s/don't/don't know/ 03:42:09 ahh now it's compiling 03:42:54 icylisper: can i make climacs use clisp? 03:43:40 Bigshot_: why not. But SBCL saves you trouble. 03:44:02 so i can just type (climacs:climacs) in clisp rigth? 03:44:17 Bigshot_: yes 03:44:21 stassats`: It has a compiler to Java Byte Code. It must be just another compiler. 03:46:35 where does it say that it has a compiler to Java Byte Code? 03:47:55 WarWeasle has obviously confused clojure and clozure 03:48:07 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:48:13 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:27 well, he does link to the clozure site 03:48:28 jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:50 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:20 WarWeasle: Clozure is native, Clojure is a Lisp designed for JVM 03:50:38 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:50:57 Clozure is also known as OpenMCL 03:51:04 p_l: Thanks! I found the page for cloJure and that is what I remembered. 03:51:43 Ok, I was wondering why so many people were using a JVM based lisp. 03:52:50 afk - it's 0450, I need to get some sleep 03:54:18 -!- KingThomasV [n=KingThom@76.122.37.30] has quit ["I'm off!"] 03:54:37 icylisper: it says package not found 03:54:50 when i try to run climacs from clisp! 03:55:17 because you haven't loaded it? 03:55:34 and you think climacs will work in clisp? 03:56:18 how to load it in clisp? 03:56:42 same way as in other lisps 03:57:06 how how stassats` 03:57:39 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:57:54 didn't you bother to check website for installation instructions? 03:58:05 clbuild did that for me 03:58:25 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:58:37 oh wait 03:58:41 nvm 03:58:56 does clbuild work with clisp? 03:59:43 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:47 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 04:01:21 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-148-7-32.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:39 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@121.13.179.193] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:04:13 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:07:11 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.4.36] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:11:25 sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:56 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:16:07 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:18:12 plage` [n=user@58.186.146.148] has joined #lisp 04:19:28 -!- sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:20:10 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.205.165] has joined #lisp 04:21:32 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:21:34 -!- plage` is now known as plage 04:22:22 _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E456DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:11 sellout- [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:24 -!- sellout- [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:24:52 sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:18 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has quit [] 04:34:35 -!- sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:37:44 Guest30776 [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:23 -!- |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E453B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 04:46:25 commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 04:47:42 -!- Guest30776 is now known as sellout 04:49:32 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 04:50:46 Boy, "Series Expansion" must be one of the absolute worst nutjobs I have seen on usenet. 04:52:02 pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has joined #lisp 04:52:42 CuriousTrain [n=user@d199-126-165-137.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:31 is there an easy way to replace the nth item in a list? (either destructively or not) 04:54:24 (setf (car (nthcdr n list)) ...) [except I never remember the order of the args to nthcdr] 04:54:44 perhaps nth even is an accessor 04:54:47 clhs nth 04:54:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_nth.htm 04:55:29 hm plage, im not sure i follow 04:55:38 it is. (setf (nth n list) ) 04:55:58 oh cool 04:56:10 ok, that will do it i think! 04:57:45 commmmodo: When a thing is said to be an "accessor" you can use it with setf. 04:58:12 ok, i didnt realize it could be both 04:58:33 oh i get it. interesting. 04:58:37 haha im new to lisp 04:59:00 mk [n=mk@unaffiliated/mk] has joined #lisp 05:00:15 That will change pretty soon I hope. 05:06:06 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-148-7-32.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:06:33 commmmodo: Is Lisp used in courses at UCSC? 05:06:35 lispm [n=joswig@e177126000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:06:44 -!- sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:06:49 are you IP stalking me plage? 05:07:00 sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:12 commmmodo: No, just looked at your "join" entry in the logs. 05:07:22 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177126000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 05:07:28 hahah to answer ur question, yes it is 05:07:45 That's great! 05:07:54 its for algorithmic music 05:07:58 class 05:08:06 I see. 05:08:09 im actually from hopkins but im takin a class here over the summer 05:08:23 commmmodo: Oh, do you know Joanne Houlahan? 05:08:34 who's that? 05:08:41 is she the CS prof? 05:08:45 the java one? at JHU? 05:08:48 at Hopkins yes. 05:08:50 yea 05:08:59 no i never really dealt with her, except to get out of her java class 05:09:12 I thought she was a good teacher, no? 05:09:21 idk, i never took a class 05:09:23 she probably is 05:09:38 http://www.ratemyprofessor.com ? if u want to know :) 05:09:44 commmmodo: Are you in CS? 05:09:50 computer music 05:10:07 Ah, I see. 05:10:09 u? 05:10:34 commmmodo: I am a professor in Bordeaux, France, but right now I am having lunch in a restaurant in Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam. 05:10:44 wow! cool! 05:10:45 commmmodo: But I did my PhD at Hopkins. 05:10:51 oh, lolz, small world 05:11:06 MWP_ [n=na@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 05:11:10 what is ur field of rsch? 05:11:52 Rapid sound synthesis, but I also do some software-engineering related stuff. 05:11:57 really? 05:12:01 thats cool 05:12:08 sounds good 05:12:12 commmmodo: you seem to be missing some vowels :) 05:12:46 mk: i try 05:12:55 commmmodo: Yeah, those kinds of abbreviations are frowned upon here. You might want to use Emacs abbrev-mode if you don't like to type. 05:12:57 mk: im broke rite now, can afford any pat sajack 05:13:10 plage: ok 05:13:44 what is a pat sajack 05:13:53 wheel of fortune? 05:14:20 vowels 05:14:34 nevermind... 05:14:37 they close money on the game show "Wheel Of Fortune" 05:14:46 anyway, thanks for ur help plage 05:14:51 commmmodo: anytime 05:14:53 *cost 05:15:29 -!- redline65611 [n=redline@c-71-56-34-130.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:16:40 -!- MWP_ [n=na@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 05:17:08 SCONS [n=na@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 05:18:57 -!- SCONS [n=na@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 05:19:45 how does lisp work? 05:19:57 SCONS [n=na@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 05:20:15 how do you mean? 05:20:39 mk: Pretty well, actually! 05:20:43 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 05:21:31 I'm mostly unfamiliar with lisp - er, I think - and I'm fishing for an explanation of how it works 05:22:02 mk: pretty much like any other programming langauge. 05:22:10 *language 05:22:22 its not object based though 05:22:38 *cmm* facepalms 05:22:41 what are its structures? 05:22:50 SCONS: what is an "object based" programming language? 05:22:58 mk: Please be more specific. 05:23:16 mk: Do you know how any other programming language works, and if so which one? 05:23:38 -!- SCONS [n=na@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 05:23:42 plage: java, c, javascript 05:23:59 mk: Then Lisp has the same structures as those. 05:24:15 mk: Perhaps you can answer how C works to give us an idea of what you expect for an answer on how Lisp works. 05:25:46 I found the following very helpful as an overview of js: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/a_re-introduction_to_javascript (the tutorials for/summaries of lisp are less... simple and focused) 05:26:10 what are lisp's primitives? 05:27:05 (assuming a rather pure lisp) 05:27:32 mk: an IRC channel would not be appropriate for that. 05:27:39 minion: please tell mk about pcl. 05:27:40 mk: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 05:29:25 ballzack [n=na@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 05:30:10 -!- ballzack [n=na@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has left #lisp 05:30:28 -!- A_anekos is now known as anekos 05:31:16 is it possible for one person to explain what lisp is to another in a conversation? I would like to try IRC 05:31:37 what makes lisp different from other programming languages? 05:31:40 mk: it is a multi-paradigm general-purpose programming language. 05:32:17 which paradigms (or arbitrary?) and aren't most languages general-purpose? 05:32:20 mk: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/features.text 05:33:07 what are multiple values? 05:34:01 mk: Go read the PCL. 05:35:33 Pegazus [n=awefawe@host122.190-31-41.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 05:39:49 explaining often helps the explainer 05:40:14 would you be willing to give it a shot, despite my refusal to go through the whole book? 05:40:35 You don't need to go through the whole book, just the introduction would suffice to answer your question. 05:41:25 mk: That might be possible. But the way you are asking makes me think you will never make any net contribution to Lisp, so I am willing to bet any such explanation would be a complete waste of my time. Someone else might think differently. 05:41:52 Chris: the intro contains neither the term multip nor valu 05:42:53 True, but Google reveals chapter 5 does. 05:46:18 And Multiple Values are discussed in Chapter 20. 05:46:35 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:47:40 plage: explaining it to me might improve your own understanding in a way that makes you contribute better :) 05:48:19 Chris: thanks. What was your query? Google seems to index only some sort of text files (site:http://www.gigamonkeys.com/ multiple values) 05:48:42 My query was "multiple values practical common lisp" (without the quotes) 05:49:11 http://l1sp.org/pcl/values 05:49:19 my query 05:50:39 stassats: sadly, no http://l1sp.org/pcl/forms 05:51:10 sure 05:52:26 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:52:28 lexa_ [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 05:52:56 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest88212 05:53:20 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:47 what is a good test of understanding lisp? 05:58:42 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:59:08 writing a compiler? 06:00:38 what about just the language? Writing a compiler would require knowledge of a lot of libraries, I assume? 06:01:02 -!- Guest88212 [n=lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 06:01:26 libraries? no 06:02:18 i/o? 06:02:41 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 06:03:29 mk: If you want to learn Lisp, read PCL. If you want an overview of why people like Lisp, you can find plenty with Google. 06:07:22 ahaas: is that how you learned lisp? 06:07:42 mk, I think that recently, many people have started with PCL. 06:08:00 another book which many people start with is PAIP 06:08:05 minion, tell mk about PAIP 06:08:06 mk: please see PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 06:09:05 -!- md22 [n=ken@204.188.174.189] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:09:23 hiteki [n=user@202.251.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:26 'lut 06:09:38 is there something like a spec around? 06:09:51 minion, tell mk about the hyperspec 06:09:52 mk: you speak nonsense 06:10:02 minion, tell mk about clhs 06:10:04 mk: please look at clhs: To look up a symbol in the HyperSpec, try saying "clhs symbol". For more information on the HyperSpec see http://www.cliki.net/CLHS . 06:13:01 plage: I worked in Vietnam for nearly a year. Still go back about once a year. 06:13:10 plage: You learned to ride a scooter yet? It's fun. :) 06:13:34 hiteki: haven't seen you since 08.10.19:07:38:03 06:13:58 tessier: Yes, I have been on a scooter, but only as a passenger. 06:14:04 plage: I think I am not the hiteki you are talking about 06:14:24 :) 06:14:50 hiteki: 08.10.19:22:12:00 --- join: hiteki (n=user@102.29.100-84.rev.gaoland.net) joined #lisp 06:14:54 sure looks similar. 06:15:14 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:15:19 hiteki: We had a very brief conversation though. You just said "hi beach". 06:15:22 in this case, it might be me... 06:15:26 (which is one of my other nicks.) 06:15:37 oh... 06:15:44 ejs [n=eugen@64-250-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:09 plage like "la plage" en francais ? 06:16:34 Yeah, direct translation of my Swedish last name into English and French. 06:16:58 i guess your memory is beter than mine on this point 06:17:04 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has quit [] 06:17:12 hiteki: Memory? Nah, I have the logs on my computer. 06:17:50 I should have wrote "memory" instead 06:18:04 I see. 06:18:17 As in hard-disk memory. 06:18:20 you miss me as I see :) 06:18:49 I guess that's one way of putting it. 06:23:31 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:25:13 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 06:25:19 Night all 06:25:31 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 06:25:51 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 06:27:45 -!- ejs [n=eugen@64-250-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:28:36 -!- TDT [n=TDT@126.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:34:18 -!- mk [n=mk@unaffiliated/mk] has left #lisp 06:36:15 ejs2 [n=eugen@64-250-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:59 commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 06:45:02 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 06:46:42 -!- ausente [n=user7994@187.35.196.144] has quit ["Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de"] 06:47:09 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:47:39 ausente [n=user7994@187.35.196.144] has joined #lisp 06:49:11 -!- sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:49:49 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:49:57 sellout [n=greg@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:09 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:56:11 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@64-250-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:56:34 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:56:47 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:57:27 -!- lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:00:11 depp [n=user@98.250-106-89.FTTH.rus-com.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:21 -!- depp [n=user@98.250-106-89.FTTH.rus-com.net] has left #lisp 07:05:39 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:07:17 mrSpec [n=_@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 07:07:23 Hello 07:13:50 plutonas [n=plutonas@147.52.194.101] has joined #lisp 07:21:50 [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.28] has joined #lisp 07:22:28 jmbr [n=jmbr@172.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:26:00 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@172.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:31:05 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:32:10 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-12-210.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:32:34 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:32:34 -!- TR2N [i=email@89.180.191.222] has left #lisp 07:33:11 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:35:33 cl-newb [n=John@c-67-183-22-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:10 What is the functional inverse of (cis radians)? I want an arccis(a,b) or arccis(complex) 07:36:19 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:57 I think you want phase 07:38:05 yep, thx hefner 07:39:42 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-124-208.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:42:05 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [] 07:43:39 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:43:47 EnglishGent [n=EnglishG@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:43:57 jmbr [n=jmbr@172.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:49:55 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has quit [] 07:50:19 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1CC3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:28 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-6-199.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:52:38 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 07:53:23 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-241-19-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:55:35 commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 07:55:49 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-124-208.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:03:32 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 08:07:51 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:18:08 -!- cl-newb [n=John@c-67-183-22-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:25:37 -!- Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit ["Changing server"] 08:38:11 ejs0 [n=eugen@64-250-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:14 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:39:37 Blkt [n=Blkt@net-93-151-238-90.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 08:42:24 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.173.205.165] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:47:43 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 08:48:46 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 08:50:41 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:57 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.137.201] has joined #lisp 08:54:53 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:57:20 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:23 Hali_303 [n=Hali_303@dsl5400CD7F.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 08:59:42 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.248.181] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:00:13 hi! which interface should I use to communicate with a postgres server? google shows multiple of these 09:00:16 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:00:56 Hali_303: whichever you prefer. 09:01:07 hello 09:01:17 hey - I'd be interested in doing that as well 09:01:18 Hali_303: it would depend on how specific you want your interface to be to postgres. 09:01:28 *EnglishGent* has 'get lisp to talk to postgres' on his to-do list 09:01:51 :) 09:01:54 I cant speak for Hali_303 - but I'd like something supporting postgres's object-relational capabilities (e.g. subtables) 09:02:20 pjb: I'm just learning LISP, so I though it would be cool to check out an existing postgres DB I have around here 09:03:30 EnglishGent: I don't know the details of the features of the different interfaces. But I'd guess that only interfaces specific to postgres can provide postgres specific features. 09:04:53 See: http://www.cliki.net/admin/search?words=postgres and http://www.cliki.net/database 09:05:09 pjb: thank you 09:05:10 serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-149-75.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:07:25 thanks pjb :) 09:07:55 *EnglishGent* is reasonably comfortable with Lisp but hadnt looked at this specific problem yet.... however as it's on my to-do list & it came up... :) 09:14:10 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 09:17:23 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:20:15 xan [n=xan@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:45 xan_ [n=xan@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:36 in a package, do i need to put declaim in every file? 09:30:12 -!- ejs0 [n=eugen@64-250-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:30:13 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 09:31:04 Yes, but depending on what you want there may be some different solution 09:31:40 -!- xan [n=xan@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:32:23 plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has joined #lisp 09:32:37 -!- xan_ [n=xan@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:32:42 Good afternoon! 09:32:44 xan [n=xan@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:41 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:46 I just want to make sure I got the optimisation notes since most of the stuff is to do with numerical computing 09:36:52 would it be possible to make a macro for them? ie, you could just say after you (in-package :foo) form, (with-my-optimization-settings) which would expand into your declarations 09:37:33 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@172.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:38:06 actually, even better, have (with-my-opt-settings @rest code) wrap a locally form around all the code which you want optimized. 09:38:26 Just put (eval-when (:compile-file) (declaim (optimize (speed 3))) in each file where it's relevant 09:38:41 xan_ [n=xan@51.Red-83-61-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:55 You can also use M-- C-c C-k in Slime to compile a file with (speed 3) settings 09:39:02 -!- _stern_ is now known as seelenquell 09:39:54 bobf_ [n=bob@host86-147-202-188.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:46:41 schaueho_ [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-017-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:07 Muld [n=wr23@88-196-39-33-dsl.noe.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 09:48:15 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 09:48:20 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483B4B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:45 -!- xan_ [n=xan@51.Red-83-61-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:50:34 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:50:54 koft` [n=user@adsl-144-190-3.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:12 anyone around that uses weblocks? 09:54:05 Is there an easy way to add a more element in front of an 1d array? 09:54:16 s/a/one/ 09:54:17 -!- koft` [n=user@adsl-144-190-3.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:54:27 easy, sure. efficient, no. 09:54:34 leo2007: draw the array from right to left and add it to the end. 09:55:40 -!- xan [n=xan@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:55:54 leo2007: do you need to add elements at both ends? 09:56:17 just the leftmost 09:56:23 just one element 09:56:36 Then do as plage says. 09:56:36 Make a new-array with one element more, set the first element, invoke REPLACE appropriately. 09:56:54 do you *always* add them at the left? :) 09:57:01 yes, 09:57:16 Oh sure then what plage says 09:59:15 The array holds the return value and is originally one-size smaller. On certain condition, I need to prepend 1 to the result array and return it 09:59:39 In most cases, just return it 10:01:43 In this case, plage's suggestion won't work, right 10:01:46 (defun make-prependable-array ...) (defun prepend (element array) (vector-push-extend element array)) (defun pref (parray index) (aref parray (- (length parray) index 1))) 10:02:05 it works perfectly well. This is the FIRST LESSON OF PROGRAMMING: ABSTRACTION! 10:03:01 vector-push-extend sounds like what I want 10:04:17 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:05:33 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 10:07:38 -!- younder [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 10:08:24 leo2007: is the new element of the same kind of information as the rest of the array? if not, you may wish to return multiple values instead 10:08:50 abeaumont_ [n=abeaumon@51.Red-83-61-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:00 exu0 [n=u@dslb-084-056-163-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:37 -!- exu0 [n=u@dslb-084-056-163-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 10:16:52 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:28 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #lisp 10:19:50 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483B4B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:20:35 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:21 serichsen: the same kind. 10:21:22 Qsource: I'm trying to use weblocks right now 10:21:52 dys [n=andreas@p5B313F3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:02 xan [n=xan@94.Red-81-43-97.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:05 it is just a simple function that returns N+1's base-k expansion given N's expansion 10:23:09 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:23:21 rstandy: are you using one of the builtin stores? i can't understand how to hack around stores since my data doesn't come from those kinds of sources 10:23:50 Qsource: I'm using the elephant backend 10:24:05 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 10:24:06 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@121.13.179.193] has joined #lisp 10:24:41 Qsource: It isn't that diffucult, what's your specific problem? 10:24:56 -!- abeaumont_ [n=abeaumon@51.Red-83-61-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:24:58 Qsource: anyway to get started it's better to use the prevalence store 10:25:21 rstandy: well, for example, how would i display a static table, taking advantage of the sorting and other stateful widgets? 10:25:24 Qsource: it doesn't need configuration at all 10:25:45 Qsource: have you looked at the example? 10:26:55 Qsource: anyway you make some instances of your class (say my-class) 10:26:57 i'm trying to integrate this into an existing application. any new storage mechanisms are a non-starter. i've been looking at using temporary memory stores, but it doesn't look like i can easily add arbitrary objects to one of those 10:27:48 besides, say you wanted to display a list of running threads. you will never have any kind of persistent object to associate with those. how would you do it? how about a table of numbers? 10:30:44 uhm, I see your problem now 10:31:14 Qsource: I think you need to write a render-widget-body method for your object type 10:32:44 i don't really want to use it as a widget. i want to use it as a "data type" for one of the builtin views (datagrid, etc.) so it can resort the table and do other fun things. let's say for a minute that i just have a table of numbers and i want that feature (sorting). i'm pretty sure implementing render-widget-body for integer isn't gonna help me 10:32:51 Qsource: let me try instead to make a listedit widget with non-presistent objects 10:33:51 Qsource: let me try also that :-) 10:34:32 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:35:14 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:35:41 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 10:36:14 i'd like to see how you do it. (render-list) is the closest thing i can find, and while a (render-table) that outputs an html :table would be trivial, it wouldn't use most of the cool bultin features 10:38:01 Qsource: wow, I got a memory fault :-) 10:41:16 fiveop [n=fiveop@e179165106.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:42:38 Qsource: I must go now, let me know if you find any solution, I'm really interested 10:43:05 rstandy: me too. i'm pretty sure i'll end up with a manually-generated table for now :-/ 10:44:12 -!- schaueho_ [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-017-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:45:15 -!- xan [n=xan@94.Red-81-43-97.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:49:25 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:51:40 jyujin [n=mdeining@82.113.121.166] has joined #lisp 10:53:09 plage` [n=user@58.186.146.148] has joined #lisp 10:53:22 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:53:27 -!- plage` is now known as plage 10:53:52 Qsource: so, basically, you just want to dynamically generate a table from a store? Couldn't you just use CL-WHO and CLSQL for that? 10:56:55 serichsen: I _could_, but i'd have to do it 2-3 times per page store, and they would be thrown away almost immediately. i tried using memory-store. clsql would probably be a disaster 11:01:56 lispm [n=joswig@e177144179.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:02:20 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 11:05:07 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:15:42 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:23:09 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1CC3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:26:41 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@121.13.179.193] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:30:17 xan [n=xan@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:07 jmbr [n=jmbr@105.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:33:48 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.28] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:34:12 [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.191] has joined #lisp 11:36:29 xan_ [n=xan@204.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:24 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:34 -!- xan_ [n=xan@204.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:42:40 xan_ [n=xan@176.Red-88-2-179.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:12 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 11:44:42 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 11:46:31 eaumontab [n=abeaumon@94.Red-81-43-97.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:59 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:55:02 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:55:35 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:35 -!- xan [n=xan@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:57:44 Yuuhi [n=user@84.131.205.180] has joined #lisp 12:00:53 xan [n=xan@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:08 -!- daniel__ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:01:23 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:01:50 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 12:03:03 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:06:08 aumontabe [n=abeaumon@204.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:52 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:06:57 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:54 how would i cut out a substring? 12:08:02 *jimi_hendrix* always forgets his string functions 12:08:06 xan__ [n=xan@51.Red-83-61-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:18 clhs subseq 12:08:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_subseq.htm 12:08:22 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:08:41 ty 12:08:41 jimi_hendrix: A string is a vector is a sequence 12:09:04 jimi_hendrix: Please spell out "thank you" or learn to use Emacs abbrevs. 12:09:30 jimi_hendrix: [sorry I am in a rotten mood] 12:09:36 theres an emacs abbreviation for thank you? 12:10:05 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:10:39 jimi_hendrix: You just define an erc mode-specific abbrev that expands "ty" into "thank you", the way I have "cl" expand into "Common Lisp" (at least on most of my computers). 12:10:57 ah 12:11:37 i tried erc...it bugged me after a while though, but it was the irc client i used the longest that wasnt xchat 12:12:08 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:13 Emacs abbrevs are very under-utilized. I am always amazed as to how few people use them. 12:13:08 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:44 plage, they could be useful 12:14:12 jimi_hendrix: They save me hours per week. 12:14:28 plage, one more thing, if a function returns 4 things, how would i grab just the first two 12:14:31 0.0 12:15:12 (multiple-value-bind (first second) (function-returning-4-things args...) ok 12:15:55 xan___ [n=xan@94.Red-81-43-97.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:02 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:17:49 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:43 -!- xan_ [n=xan@176.Red-88-2-179.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:19:03 -!- aumontabe [n=abeaumon@204.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:20:12 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:20:23 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:21:17 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 12:21:24 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 12:21:46 hmm 12:21:56 can i ask a slime question here 12:22:16 sure 12:22:19 LinuxerSon [n=zeroirc2@121.184.10.93] has joined #lisp 12:22:25 -!- LinuxerSon [n=zeroirc2@121.184.10.93] has left #lisp 12:22:37 -!- eaumontab [n=abeaumon@94.Red-81-43-97.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:22:59 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:23:28 ok, for some reason when i try to compile code, my connection to sbcl just dies 12:24:40 Look into *inferior-lisp*, probably an encoding error 12:25:04 -!- xan [n=xan@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:26:18 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:26:19 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:26:26 tcr, what should i look for 12:26:48 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:38 hmm this looks interesting: * [undoing binding stack and other enclosing state... done 12:28:38 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:29:54 demmel [n=demmel@91.12.8.57] has joined #lisp 12:36:58 -!- xan__ [n=xan@51.Red-83-61-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:39:31 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 12:39:42 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-148.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:41:13 -!- xan___ [n=xan@94.Red-81-43-97.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:42:32 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:43:03 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-103-94.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:43:33 blandest [n=blandest@79.112.96.82] has joined #lisp 12:44:20 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@183.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:44:23 -!- plage [n=user@58.186.146.148] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:46:59 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:50 -!- Numlock is now known as PissedNumlock 12:49:01 juhk [i=malik@i59F795EC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:57:16 hiteki` [n=user@121.251.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:24 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@105.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:06:44 tsuru [n=user@69.245.36.64] has joined #lisp 13:11:41 hm i installed clisp and slime (debian)... slime starts up but when i compile something it just tells me how many errors etc, but doesn't describe them 13:12:34 is there something i have to do in order to get the description? 13:12:38 -!- hiteki [n=user@202.251.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:14:30 johs: when i compile a file with C-c C-k, i can use M-n and M-p to go to the notes/errors in the buffer 13:14:35 same with C-c C-c 13:16:59 ah... i only tried M-n ... M-p gives something... at least for 2 seconds or something in the minibuffer 13:17:03 and in the messages buffer 13:18:52 not very comforable but i guess it workds 13:20:25 Reav__ [n=Reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 13:21:54 is there a way to append an item to the end of a list in lisp? 13:22:15 i found append, but it applies the item to the beginning 13:22:15 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-103-94.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 13:23:25 commmmodo: append does not work like that. 13:23:41 xach: what should i use? 13:23:44 commmmodo: (append list1 list2) will result in a new list with the items of list1 followed by the items of list2 13:24:03 if you only have a non-list object, you can put it into a list by using (list object) 13:24:32 but if you find yourself putting things at the ends of lists often, you probably should use a different data structure or algorithm. it's expensive to find the end of the list a lot. 13:24:40 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-34-164.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:25:28 one frequently-used approach is to construct the list one-at-a-time from the front with PUSH, and reverse it once at the end with NREVERSE or REVERSE 13:30:04 jimi_hendrix: Just paste the whole buffer to listpaste 13:30:07 thank you xach 13:30:11 that helps 13:30:24 tobetchi [n=tobetchi@59.146.62.107] has joined #lisp 13:30:35 do you know if i can loop over each list in a list? for example ((2 6 1) (2 6 2) (2 6 3))? 13:31:07 commmmodo, yes 13:31:30 i tried loop for a on '((2 6 1) (2 6 2) (2 6 3)) do... but no luck 13:31:40 it's complaining about something not being a real number 13:31:55 jewel_ hi, how can i do this? 13:32:10 (loop for l in '((... 13:32:57 do i need the "do"? 13:33:12 if you want to "do" something, yes 13:33:13 You should read through PCL's chapter about LOOP 13:33:16 or you can use collect cte 13:33:18 etc 13:33:35 ok kewl 13:33:42 thank you jewel_ appreciate it 13:34:16 read pcl, it will teach you a lot 13:41:22 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:46:10 will do jewel_ 13:46:35 -!- juhk [i=malik@i59F795EC.versanet.de] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:48:27 blazeski [i=slobodan@79.125.247.213] has joined #lisp 13:50:31 -!- icylisper [n=user@115.99.32.68] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:50:39 okflo [n=user@91-115-82-191.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:50:59 -!- blandest [n=blandest@79.112.96.82] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:51:05 blandest [n=blandest@79.112.96.82] has joined #lisp 13:51:09 LiamH [n=nobody@141.156.233.205] has joined #lisp 13:57:14 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-94.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 13:57:36 (loop for (i1 i2 i3) in '((2 6 1) (2 6 2) (2 6 3)) do (stuff-with i1 i2 i3)) 14:00:38 -!- anekos is now known as A_anekos 14:05:02 -!- okflo [n=user@91-115-82-191.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:07:15 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:10 quek [n=read_eva@210.253.202.182] has joined #lisp 14:09:13 |Grub| [n=win7@217.149.190.79] has joined #lisp 14:12:09 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:12:59 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:13:48 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-214-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:08 serichse1 [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-151-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:14:57 xan [n=xan@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:33 -!- xan [n=xan@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:23:08 aumontabe [n=abeaumon@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:55 vng [n=demen@222.253.100.193] has joined #lisp 14:23:56 -!- aumontabe [n=abeaumon@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:24:32 aumontabe [n=abeaumon@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:07 xan [n=xan@51.Red-83-61-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:07 -!- aumontabe [n=abeaumon@52.Red-80-36-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:25:59 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.191] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:26:27 -!- blazeski [i=slobodan@79.125.247.213] has left #lisp 14:26:31 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-149-75.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:27:18 -!- xan [n=xan@51.Red-83-61-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 14:27:56 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:28:51 aumontabe [n=abeaumon@51.Red-83-61-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:06 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:30:10 -!- aumontabe [n=abeaumon@51.Red-83-61-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:31:26 xan [n=xan@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:33 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 14:31:59 aumontabe [n=abeaumon@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:03 -!- aumontabe [n=abeaumon@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:33:24 aumontabe [n=abeaumon@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:23 -!- aumontabe [n=abeaumon@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:36:23 Error: SSL failure in # 92.206.70.79:1180 200FE74F>: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number 14:36:24 umontabea [n=abeaumon@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:42 seems like there are some attacks 14:36:46 -!- jyujin [n=mdeining@82.113.121.166] has quit [] 14:38:46 xan_ [n=xan@204.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:08 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:39:16 -!- xan_ [n=xan@204.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:43:07 luis pasted "fe[nl]ix: ping" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83008 14:43:41 luis: pong 14:43:57 should I commit that? Can you confirm that it works on your system? 14:44:25 xan_ [n=xan@51.Red-83-61-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:29 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:44:31 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:45:06 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:45:32 luis: it works 14:45:56 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-94.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:48:25 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 14:49:07 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:51:43 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 14:53:02 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:53:39 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-94.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 14:53:50 Tordek__ [n=tordek@host26.190-137-245.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:54:24 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host158.200-82-19.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:54:26 -!- Tordek__ is now known as Tordek 14:54:39 any idea what slime-enable-evaluate-in-emacs does? 14:55:55 xan__ [n=xan@94.Red-81-43-97.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:53 -!- xan__ [n=xan@94.Red-81-43-97.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:59:26 -!- zophy[] [n=sy@host-27-92-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:59:52 zophy [n=sy@host-27-92-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:15 -!- umontabea [n=abeaumon@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:06:09 -!- xan [n=xan@198.Red-80-59-108.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:06:32 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has left #lisp 15:08:21 -!- xan_ [n=xan@51.Red-83-61-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:09:09 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:10:52 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-241-19-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:11 allow swank::eval-in-emacs 15:21:53 is it better to enable it, tcr? 15:25:52 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:26:23 No, unless you want to execute elisp code from Common Lisp 15:27:30 tcr: thank you. 15:27:32 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-94.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:28:14 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:31:02 illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:26 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:39 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 15:35:34 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 15:35:41 udzinari [n=udzinari@94-43-70-11.dsl.utg.ge] has joined #lisp 15:36:18 xan [n=xan@29.Red-83-59-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:41 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 15:51:11 danlei [n=user@pD9E2E99D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:35 jmbr__ [n=jmbr@169.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:01:45 bgs100 [n=ian@h246.246.22.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:12 Quadre` [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has joined #lisp 16:06:13 -!- Quadre` [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:06:28 Quadre` [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has joined #lisp 16:07:07 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:09:17 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-148-7-32.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:31 umontabea [n=abeaumon@204.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:30 -!- umontabea [n=abeaumon@204.Red-88-27-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:14:32 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:14:36 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@183.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:14:48 umontabea [n=abeaumon@176.Red-88-2-179.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:52 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:21 icylisper [n=user@115.99.32.68] has joined #lisp 16:17:47 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:17:50 -!- EnglishGent [n=EnglishG@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:08 -!- umontabea is now known as abeaumont 16:30:45 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-35-218-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:25 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-234-40.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [" MS forgot to close port 80 "] 16:31:34 lujz [n=lujz@89-212-239-155.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:30 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:30 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:35:58 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:39 -!- quek [n=read_eva@210.253.202.182] has left #lisp 16:40:49 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@176.Red-88-2-179.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:48:09 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:56 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-25-168.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:50:05 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@e179165106.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["humhum"] 16:53:20 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:55:04 -!- Reav__ [n=Reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:55:21 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 16:56:28 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:59:27 -!- icylisper [n=user@115.99.32.68] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:05:14 bavardage [n=bavardag@87.115.156.55] has joined #lisp 17:05:23 is it possible to define latter things in a let using former definitions 17:05:42 like I have (let ((sender recipient) (result (foobar sender)... 17:06:21 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 17:08:28 bavardage: you want let* 17:08:35 ooh thankyou 17:09:10 -!- illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:09:27 illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:07 lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-234-40.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 17:13:07 regarding this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/309072 17:13:15 [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.153] has joined #lisp 17:15:04 wouldn't it suffice to make an after method for initialize-instance of standard-direct-slot-definition that checks the supplied values? 17:15:26 or better, a before method 17:15:30 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-176-53-236.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:21:40 -!- serichse1 is now known as serichsen 17:21:43 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:23:23 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:23:45 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-215-139.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:28 hi, I'm trying to replace all instances of ' with a literal \' I'm using http://paste.lisp.org/display/83013 and when I (replace-all "foo's" "'" "\'") it doesn't put a literal \ and when I (replace-all "foo's" "'" "\\'") it puts two \\ 17:26:58 minion: tell egn about cl-ppcre 17:27:00 egn: look at cl-ppcre: CL-PPCRE is a portable, Perl-compatible regular expression library by Edi Weitz. http://www.cliki.net/cl-ppcre 17:28:58 tmh: thanks 17:29:40 egn: don't confuse the print syntax of strings with the actual contents 17:29:55 egn: in particular, a string that prints like this: "\\" has one element: the character #\\ 17:29:58 -!- |Grub| [n=win7@217.149.190.79] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:30:16 egn: it does that so you can read the string back in and get a single \ 17:30:19 Xach: ah okay 17:30:20 egn: are you talking about emacs lisp? 17:30:21 Heh, I'm actually having problems playing with that example because of PAREDIT. 17:30:33 serichsen: nah 17:31:17 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:23 *tmh* gives up 17:35:10 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:36:27 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 17:37:13 saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:50 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 17:40:12 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:41:16 -!- tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 17:41:21 tic [n=tic@c83-249-194-117.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:41:39 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:44:13 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:46:43 manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-84-11.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:46:49 -!- Quadre` is now known as Quadrescence 17:47:08 is there such a thing as lexicographic and dynamic scoping with functions in common lisp (like with variables)? 17:49:11 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:27 demmel: Look at ContextL 17:50:32 |Grub| [n=win7@217.149.190.84] has joined #lisp 17:51:05 demmel: Basically, you can get dynamic functions by funcalling a function stored in a dynamic variable 17:51:43 fair enough 17:52:20 but global functions can be redefined "dynamically". Or is redefinition not standard conform? 17:52:50 Implementations are allowed to inline calls to functions defined in the same file 17:53:39 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.140.108] has joined #lisp 17:53:44 I hope you're not thinking of a cruel hack involving UNWIND-PROTECT, and (SETF FDEFINITION) 17:53:59 (which, btw, is how FLET is implemented in Elisp) 17:54:54 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:50 -!- bavardage [n=bavardag@87.115.156.55] has quit ["leaving"] 17:56:11 no. Just making sure I have the right semantics for my walker. 17:56:43 As in when I replace a function (a plan), i go back to the global environment. 17:57:35 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.153] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:57:36 Since I'm only interested in function and macro environment. 17:59:38 -!- Blkt [n=Blkt@net-93-151-238-90.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:00:10 Can't judge that makes sense 18:00:13 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 18:00:17 actually I'd need to access the environment the function was defined in... which must be in some kind of closure. I'm not sure how this stuff works. Will look into first, before I ask more questions here ;) 18:00:39 tcr: I'll tell you in person some time 18:01:26 doing tree walking raises many very interesting questions. I like it :) 18:01:31 proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:01:52 Yeah, processing source-code ain't easy 18:03:18 demmel: You will not be able to get the lexical-environment from a closure, if you mean a &environment-like environment. 18:03:48 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-188-098-221-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:28 tcr: I will need to think about it a bit more... but eventually I need to walk a plan which is defined kinda like this (defun plan (..) ...) 18:04:29 demmel: &environment-like lexical-environments are converted to physical environments, and I do not think that they're fully isomorphic. It's more likely a closure only saves what it needs to know. 18:05:36 tcr: if a plan was defined like this: (macrolet ((foo ...)) (defun plan ...)), then I need an environment containing foo, when expanding the plan... 18:05:58 You won't get it. At least not with CL:DEFUN 18:06:01 d'ont i... 18:06:44 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-35-218-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:06:46 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:06:48 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 18:07:22 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:07:50 actually plan definition works with a macro expanding to a (defun ...), so i could take the environment of the macro call and store it in the plans symbol's plist 18:08:15 which is exactly the environment when the defun was called 18:08:23 Sure, but it won't be portable. &environment parameters have dynamic-extent only 18:08:31 I'm afk for a walk. 18:08:41 sure thing 18:09:10 macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:09:16 tcr: you mean i cant store them? 18:11:15 giov [n=chatzill@host139-173-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:12:29 grouzen [n=grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 18:15:09 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:01 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:13 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:45 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has quit [] 18:26:36 -!- giov [n=chatzill@host139-173-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.7/2007112810]"] 18:27:25 mk [n=mk@unaffiliated/mk] has joined #lisp 18:28:16 -!- jimi_hendrix [n=jimi_hen@unaffiliated/jimihendrix] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:28:29 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-154-201.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:31:06 Not in ANSI CL 18:34:31 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@147.52.194.101] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:34:43 so i could do some kind of semi expansion during definition of the plan, where macros ar handled. and the during runtime do the expansion with all plans (since plans could have been defined after their usage)... or impose some restrictions on how plans can be defined... 18:36:02 anyway. I'm off doing some homework. 18:37:35 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-143.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:37:59 -!- TekLok [n=TekLok@c-98-247-9-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:38:01 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:38:53 plutonas [n=plutonas@147.52.194.101] has joined #lisp 18:39:23 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-136.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 18:40:07 Is there anything like PARSE-INTEGER for floats? READ/READ-FROM-STRING blows up if it gets an empty string, only one double-quote, etc. 18:40:24 bgs100: it doesn't blow up. 18:40:49 bgs100: not built-in, but there is a library to do it. i think it's called something like parse-number. 18:41:05 Thanks. 18:42:10 minion: parse-number? 18:42:11 parse-number: parse-number is a Library of functions which accept an arbitrary string and attempt to parse it into one of the standard Common Lisp number types, if possible, or else it signals an error of type invalid-number. http://www.cliki.net/parse-number 18:44:04 -!- vng [n=demen@222.253.100.193] has left #lisp 18:49:15 bgs100: parse-number does not have parse-integer's :allow-junk 18:49:49 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:36 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 18:57:42 commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 18:58:09 -!- xan [n=xan@29.Red-83-59-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:59:09 xan [n=xan@29.Red-83-59-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:35 -!- koollman [n=samson_t@sd-9780.dedibox.fr] has quit ["leaving"] 19:07:56 -!- mk [n=mk@unaffiliated/mk] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:08:22 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:10:33 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:39 kunday [n=kunday@117.193.138.214] has joined #lisp 19:12:10 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:15 -!- serichsen [n=harleqin@xdsl-81-173-151-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:15:35 -!- kunday [n=kunday@117.193.138.214] has left #lisp 19:16:08 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 19:17:33 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:54 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Client Quit] 19:18:09 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 19:18:27 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:19:28 kunday [n=kunday@117.193.138.214] has joined #lisp 19:20:52 oudeis_ [n=oudeis@89-138-90-202.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:21:19 TekLok [n=TekLok@c-98-247-9-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:47 -!- TekLok [n=TekLok@c-98-247-9-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:22:18 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:22:21 Jabberwockey [n=jens@ip54517590.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 19:22:37 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 19:22:59 TekLok [n=TekLok@c-98-247-9-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:53 -!- xan [n=xan@29.Red-83-59-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:24:01 [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.93] has joined #lisp 19:24:14 -!- |Grub| [n=win7@217.149.190.84] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:24:16 tmh pasted "Explain this LOOP behavior" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83021 19:24:36 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.93] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:24:44 your understanding is wrong 19:24:59 xan [n=xan@29.Red-83-59-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:00 Krystof: Obviously. 19:25:36 and it says so, explicitly, in the standard at the point where it describes the behaviour of for ... = in loop clauses 19:25:57 "If form2 is omitted, the construct uses form1 on the second and subsequent iterations." 19:25:57 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-84-11.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #lisp 19:26:04 I mean, what's not to understand? 19:26:23 -!- TekLok [n=TekLok@c-98-247-9-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:26:51 saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:17 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:30:22 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:30:41 Where I was fooling myself was whether form1 was evaluated on only the first iteration or every iteration. 19:30:48 tmh: that's "with", not "for" 19:33:28 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-12-210.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:37:13 is it supposed to be possible to make an sbcl image with save-lisp-and-die when you have native libraries loaded via cffi? 19:37:14 tombom [i=tombom@86.25.62.75] has joined #lisp 19:37:34 macdice: yes 19:38:30 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 19:39:25 Ppjet6 [n=ppjet@78.115.255.187] has joined #lisp 19:39:35 my image bombs after a few hours if i do that, with a strange memory fault. i guess i must have a bug in my cffi code... but it stays up happily if i don't use a saved image 19:40:49 macdice: are you using a recent sbcl ? 19:41:25 1.0.18.debian 19:41:51 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-30-63.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:42:23 were there known issues with alien/ffi stuff in older versions? 19:42:38 macdice: go to http://sbcl.sourceforge.net/platform-table.html, download the latest version, the retry 19:44:14 -!- antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has left #lisp 19:44:17 antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:22 -!- antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has left #lisp 19:44:24 antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:28 -!- antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has left #lisp 19:44:32 antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:06 ok building 1.0.29 now, will give it a try with that 19:47:34 -!- commmmodo [n=commmmod@kresge-37-24.resnet.ucsc.edu] has quit [] 19:48:14 how can format be used to obtain something similar to C's %-20s (fill with spaces left) ? 19:50:17 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-56-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:51:09 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177144179.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 19:51:22 i've been trying to do some distributed computing stuff with lots of sbcl instances using spread multicasting. it's really quite fun :-) 19:51:51 is anyone here doing distributed computing with lisp? 19:52:23 blandest: ~A will do it. 19:52:51 macdice: a few people mention it here from time to time 19:53:38 -!- tobetchi [n=tobetchi@59.146.62.107] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:57:02 commmmodo [n=commmmod@dhcp-11-166.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 19:57:10 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:59:50 wow, sbcl builds really fast 20:00:25 -!- kunday [n=kunday@117.193.138.214] has quit [] 20:01:14 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 20:02:49 macdice: you should try ccl 20:04:27 heh 20:04:32 macdice: this is probably the first time somebody said that here (-: 20:04:43 macdice: it gets faster every few years, right around when i get a new computer... 20:05:06 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20:06:05 udzinari_ [n=udzinari@94-43-70-11.dsl.utg.ge] has joined #lisp 20:07:19 He probably meant that it prints a lot stuff really fast. :-) 20:07:33 for most of the people working on it, it's never fast enough, of course (: 20:07:40 no i mean that it finished in what seemed like just a few minutes 20:08:27 although it did spit out a lot of style warnings at very high speed too :-) 20:10:45 Xach: could be worse; could be C++, where the compilers tend to get slower faster than I get new computers 20:10:48 :) 20:10:55 macdice: yep, sbcl enjoys a good complain 20:12:36 -!- A_anekos is now known as anekos 20:13:54 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 20:16:28 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-25-168.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 20:17:03 saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:07 joesb [n=joesb@125.26.141.101.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:10 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:26 -!- joesb [n=joesb@125.26.141.101.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net] has left #lisp 20:19:51 -!- blandest [n=blandest@79.112.96.82] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:21:38 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 20:23:35 -!- udzinari [n=udzinari@94-43-70-11.dsl.utg.ge] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:25:34 macdice: let me guess, you expected some really long compile? :D 20:26:34 fatzog [n=fatso@blk-138-7-232.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 20:29:07 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:29:24 i think emacs takes a lot longer to build than sbcl 20:29:48 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:32:33 impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE00236916024d-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:53 -!- fatzog [n=fatso@blk-138-7-232.eastlink.ca] has left #lisp 20:36:53 if i want to talk to C++ code from lisp, do i need to make a C wrapper first, and then talk to that with cffi? 20:37:40 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.140.108] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:38:21 -!- pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:39:18 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:39:45 yeah, make a C wrapper first. SWIG can help a little, but unless you are targeting ACL it won't be easy to work with C++ 20:39:52 hi, why is this nil? (member '(1 2) '((1 2) (2 3))) 20:40:20 blandest: (format t "~20@A" "foo") 20:40:45 egn: MEMBER tests with EQL by default 20:41:01 egn: You can pass an explicit test function via the :TEST keyword argument 20:41:42 tcr: thanks 20:41:46 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 20:42:05 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:43:02 -!- xan [n=xan@29.Red-83-59-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:47:17 -!- udzinari_ [n=udzinari@94-43-70-11.dsl.utg.ge] has quit [] 20:47:33 lambda-avenger [n=roman@adsl-63-197-150-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:46 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:53:32 pipingcats [n=pipingca@c-98-198-238-21.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:27 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1DF40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:04 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:04:43 -!- djinni` [n=djinni`@ludios.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:04:54 djinni` [n=djinni`@ludios.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:02 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@pool-71-163-70-52.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 21:10:11 is anyone aware of a cl implementation of the fix protocol? 21:11:21 macdice: what's fix ? 21:11:35 http://fixprotocol.org/ 21:11:49 the main protocol used for trading securities 21:12:15 'buy 1,000 shares of AAPL' or barrels of oil or EUR/USD or whatever 21:12:59 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:13:26 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:42 i have seen a few references to private/in house implementations done in cl 21:16:08 the most popular open source implementation is quickfix, written C++, which seems to be a painful language to talk to from cl 21:17:28 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:17:29 -!- mrSpec [n=_@88.208.105.1] has quit [] 21:18:04 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:23:27 afaik there's no open source CL implementation. 21:24:31 elderK [n=elderK@222-152-95-210.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:24:46 -!- elderK [n=elderK@222-152-95-210.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #lisp 21:24:48 is there some "the lazy users way" of making output generated by (error ..) and (cerror ..) etc. wrap nicely automatically? "MK-NUMBER-PARSER (lambda): ~S~% got invalid input:~%~S" the ~S'es here might look better with a newline before and after them, but only in some cases; it looks dumb if the printed representation of those objects are short (take up little column space) 21:25:27 p_l: it looks like there was an effort a few years ago: http://nylug.org/pipermail/nylug-talk/2003-December/016268.html 21:25:34 but i can't find any other trace of that 21:26:29 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:06 Hi, I can't get SBCL to read my ASDF registries (either from clbuild or asdf-install) 21:31:40 macdice: you could pester people who talked on the topic :-) 21:31:44 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:48 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:55 -!- Muld [n=wr23@88-196-39-33-dsl.noe.estpak.ee] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:32:23 Adlai pasted ".sbclrc" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/83028 21:32:35 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:33:05 Does SBCL look for packages in different places? 21:33:10 fatelang [n=user@68-184-214-75.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:35 -!- fatelang [n=user@68-184-214-75.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:33:49 -!- lambda-avenger [n=roman@adsl-63-197-150-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:33:57 lnostdal: "MK-NUMBER-PARSER (lambda): ~@<~S~:_ got invalid input:~:_ ~S~:>" 21:34:16 Anybody know how to get SBCL to read my *central-registry* ??? 21:35:02 tcr, ouh .. perl magic .. haa .. :) .. thanks 21:35:20 Adlai: normally sbcl does not know about ~ in filenames 21:35:38 (i have a small program that adds that in) 21:36:00 http://xach.livejournal.com/179622.html has more info 21:36:24 Adlai: btw: those are not packages, but systems. 21:36:58 -!- ceineke [n=chris@dhcp-0-24-1-2b-fc-77.cpe.cabletv.on.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:38:28 danlei, I'm aware of that. Thinko. 21:38:40 ok, i can't parse that .. next idea; port slime to html/css? ... heh :) 21:39:28 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:39:45 Samy [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:59 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 21:40:35 ridip [n=user@68-184-214-75.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:03 awesome, thanks Xach. 21:41:13 Adlai: tilde is very useful (clbuild-installable too) 21:41:38 lnostdal: what... 21:42:49 what-what 21:43:10 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:44:34 lnostdal: slime ported to html/css. It's blinding 21:45:19 it was a joke .. but ok, at least the width of the viewport would control width of presentation ..bla etc. 21:45:25 "flow" 21:45:39 lispm [n=joswig@e177144179.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:46:49 perhaps emacs could do it .. 21:47:06 ..but there is no metadata in the text, so then again probably not 21:47:55 -!- Hali_303 [n=Hali_303@dsl5400CD7F.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:48:52 ceineke_ [n=chris@dhcp-0-24-1-2b-fc-77.cpe.cabletv.on.ca] has joined #lisp 21:49:05 -!- spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-34-164.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:50:01 Interesting, Juanjo says PIC is horribly slow. He's onto making ECL faster lately.. 21:50:02 deepfire, memo from pkhuong: thanks, I'll try to commit the fix soon. No hotpatch, unfortunately. 21:50:17 PIC? 21:50:18 -!- ceineke_ is now known as sledge 21:50:36 Position independent code -- the thing SBCL doesn't have. 21:50:39 position independent code? .. a gcc thing / linker thing 21:50:44 ah 21:50:51 thanks 21:52:01 lispm: the absence of PIC is what makes pretty much every CL impl. incompatible with selinux & co. , among other things 21:52:02 "SBCL can avoid these problems because it does not use PIC code: it knows the address of everything. Of course, that makes it harder for SBCL to cooperate with the OS." 21:52:40 Oh noes I submitted my first reddit comment 21:53:02 selinux is the variant which loads code to different places to increase security? 21:53:31 fe[nl]ix: ECL has it. ABCL is completely indifferent. 21:53:47 lispm: amongst other things, yes. 21:53:56 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:54:28 tcr: you will be trolled soon 21:54:49 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 21:54:56 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 21:56:35 uh, I have a major problem with my SBCL installation; 21:56:48 it's telling me that I have no thread support. 21:56:58 *that* is major? 21:56:59 (I'm on Linux...) 21:57:10 so, rebuild with them. 21:57:21 rebuild from source? 21:57:40 how do I specifically enable threads? 21:57:41 Adlai: that or download a version which has them. 21:58:05 how do I find a version which has them? I just downloaded the x86_64 Linux binary from sourceforge. 21:58:06 Adlai: there's a file where you specify your own preferences. 21:58:29 ok. that's usually the right source. 21:58:47 maybe x86_64 doesn't have them yet (stably) 21:58:49 ? 21:58:56 tcr: you need to put links around 'Lisp' and 'slime' ;-) 21:59:18 night all. 21:59:18 even 'presentation' 22:00:27 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-60-28-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:42 -!- frodef [n=ffj@216.80-202-168.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:08:06 any idea if Gábor Melis IRCs, and if so, what his nick is? 22:08:24 mathrick: mega1 22:08:28 oooh, Xach is back 22:08:34 fe[nl]ix: thanks 22:08:57 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-154-201.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:14:35 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-241-19-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:17:25 -!- Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:18:38 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:18:44 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE00236916024d-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["leaving"] 22:19:15 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:22:49 peddie_ [n=matthew@67.169.49.37] has joined #lisp 22:22:49 -!- peddie [n=matthew@67.169.49.37] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:23:02 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:24:02 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:24:35 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:25:06 jimi_hendrix [n=jimi_hen@unaffiliated/jimihendrix] has joined #lisp 22:26:39 jael [n=jael@91.142.56.44] has joined #lisp 22:27:38 -!- hiteki` is now known as hiteki 22:27:52 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B313F3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:28:03 rapacity [n=prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:28:06 dys [n=andreas@p5B313F3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:06 hello,im having a problem differentiating btween lisp and cons..i have tested the difference through (listp ()) which returns T and (consp ()) with returns nil ..same result with car as well..so the difference between the 2 is nil?any help would be appreciated 22:30:24 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-224-119.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:54 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:33:32 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@ip54517590.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:33:49 jael, I assume you mean the difference between LIST and CONS 22:34:08 What do you mean by "same result with car as well"? 22:34:19 yes,what did i say?:-p 22:34:41 erm 22:34:50 (listp (car ())) 22:34:52 return t 22:34:56 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:35:11 forget about car for a second 22:35:26 could you please explain the difference,im a bit confused? 22:35:30 a list is a cons or nil 22:35:37 a cons is just a cons 22:35:58 nil or () is the empty list 22:36:06 so listp is true 22:36:12 nil is tricky, because it's the empty list, but it's defined as being an atom 22:36:31 cons a data object with two 'slots' 22:36:54 listp of the empty list -> 22:36:57 t 22:37:09 consp of the empty list -> NIL 22:37:31 yes 22:37:39 so what is still confusing you? 22:39:15 erm,is there a way to find out if a list was constructed with list or if it was constructed with cons 22:39:18 ? 22:39:40 no, because a list always consists of cons cells, and both #'list and #'cons make cons cells. 22:39:41 -!- oudeis_ [n=oudeis@89-138-90-202.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:40:29 ah,thank you,that was just my problem,i appreciate it 22:41:14 -!- jael [n=jael@91.142.56.44] has quit ["leaving"] 22:42:50 curiously, in CL (listp (cons 1 2)) => t, whereas in scheme, (list? (cons 1 2)) => #f 22:44:11 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:44:19 listp is (or (consp thing) (null thing)) 22:44:31 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:45:02 macdice: "If object is a cons, listp does not check whether object is a proper list" 22:45:49 worse: (zl:listp nil) is NIL 22:46:24 is that symbolics zetalisp? 22:46:31 yes 22:47:31 lispm: extrapolating from this example, zl:listp is the identity function? (: 22:49:09 i just checked the maclisp manual. it says that (LISTP NIL) returns NIL on multics and T on the PDP 10 :-) 22:49:17 it is basically CONSP 22:50:08 uh, a serious question: SBCL is not compiling. 22:50:14 (pdp10-p nil) 22:50:26 I'm using CCL to compile it, after setting some features so that it will include threading. 22:50:53 I'm using the command 'sudo sh make.sh "ccl64 --batch --no-init"' 22:51:21 Adlai: that isn't a question. 22:51:48 I'm getting a huge backtrace, before it exits with "code 1". The "root cause" of the backtrace is: 22:51:50 > Error: FAILURE-P was set when creating "obj/from-host/src/compiler/node.pfsl". 22:51:50 > While executing: COMPILE-STEM, in process listener(1). 22:51:50 22:51:57 it's possible ccl cannot compile sbcl at the moment, and you'd have better luck with sbcl. 22:51:58 Xach, true :D 22:52:18 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:52:24 Xach, what do you mean? should I use the binary of SBCL to compile the source? 22:53:24 Adlai: that is generally expected to work almost all the time. 22:53:34 ok 22:53:34 Adlai: i don't think ccl is tested as regularly 22:53:57 meh, I deleted the binaries of SBCL before getting the source... *facepalm* oh well. 22:54:02 *Adlai* gets it again. 22:54:53 Adlai: it could certainly be some local, easily fixed issue for you, but i don't know how to see if that's the case, sorry 22:55:01 actually, this bootstrapping is a neat idea. 22:55:36 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:56:36 oudeis [n=oudeis@217.194.205.196] has joined #lisp 22:59:47 jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 23:00:01 Adlai: did you see luis's graphic? 23:00:08 http://kvardek-du.kerno.org/2009/06/illustrating-sbcls-build-process.html is it 23:00:29 cffi is the coolest thing since sliced bread 23:00:37 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@217.194.205.196] has quit [Client Quit] 23:01:00 cffi is a great idea, executed very well 23:01:34 it's what i think of when people say they can't use lisp because there is no formal standard for x, y, or z 23:01:42 cffi is a de facto standard portable ffi 23:02:11 all hail jamesjb 23:02:14 hm, Xach, I'm not familiar enough with compilation and build concepts to get much out of that diagram :| but thx 23:02:37 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:02:49 how does CFFI work portably? does it use readtime conditionals and just have implementation-specific code for all major implementations? 23:02:51 Adlai: step 1: read the paper, step 2: look at the diagram. :-) 23:03:01 if anyone is interested, i made some toy cffi bindings for the spread toolkit: http://ip9.org/~munro/cl-spread/ 23:03:23 Adlai: see what it says in CFFI's project page, does that answer your question? 23:05:13 *Adlai* has a (bad?) habit of asking questions in chat before doing the data mining himself... 23:05:23 cffi would be cooler if it didn't add 10mb to a deployed image for the sake of a dozen or two foreign functions =p 23:05:45 hefner: 10mb, really? 23:06:41 hmm, time to work on that tree shaker? :-) 23:07:01 benny` [n=benny@i577A073D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:07:54 today it only seems to add 4 MB. that's not so bad, particularly as this is a 64-bit machine. 23:08:14 which implementations have tree shaking? 23:08:17 TR2N [i=email@89.180.220.78] has joined #lisp 23:09:05 ajhager [n=ajhager@c-98-223-251-77.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:13 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:09:23 ..so ignore the 10mb number. I must've been measuring cffi+osicat+?? whenever I came up with that. 23:09:42 -!- Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:10:06 Adlai [n=user@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 23:10:17 *Adlai* still has difficulties with ERC. 23:11:07 it is remarkably clear and simple and unintrusive, compared to JNI (my main previous experience with FFI systems) 23:12:45 macdice: there's a more FFI-like thingie for java, it's called JNA. I came across it recently. 23:12:58 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0F93.versanet.de] has quit [Success] 23:15:19 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:15:20 spilman [n=spilman@ARennes-552-1-34-164.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:16:21 Adlai: I *think* Lispworks and Allegro have that capability, or something similar. 23:16:57 luis: I have one complaint with that diagram, besides the lack of a legend for the arrows: the HOST-2 box says "recompile" but it doesn't say *what* it compilers 23:17:02 compiles 23:17:19 -!- macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:17:22 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Success] 23:17:30 macdice: btw, did you see my CFFI port to ABCL? 23:17:38 luis, only the commercial CLs? 23:17:45 macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:17:52 in particular, it is not obvious from the diagram when code which is neither the cross-compiler nor PCL is compiled 23:18:02 other than that, it is an excellent diagram 23:18:05 oudeis [n=oudeis@217.194.205.196] has joined #lisp 23:18:12 kpreid: good point, thanks. 23:18:25 imho, the diagram could use some vertical stretching. the horizontal arrows for "grovelled constants" and "sbcl-cold.core" with arrows going left and right are not as clear as they could be 23:19:34 hmm, how would vertical stretching help with the horizontal arrows? 23:19:50 oh, that's a full stop. 23:19:54 might be more readable if you pull target-2 and host-2 down a little so that they're not on the same level as genesis-2 and target-1 23:20:09 *luis* grabs his glasses 23:20:42 luis: OK, I've read your arrow description: I think you should discard the double black/single black distinction. Have "executes" (current white double), "reads file" (current white single) and "writes file" (black) 23:20:43 -!- benny` is now known as benny 23:20:51 that is, scratch the numbers and make it clear which step happens after which by putting the earlier steps higher up than later ones (: 23:21:06 nah, keep the numbers 23:21:15 let the arrows be data-flow and the numbers be time ordering 23:21:34 ok, keep them; still, making it possible to read the diagram from top to bottom wou ldmake it clearer, I think 23:21:38 The number boxes also serve the purpose of highlighting the *steps* which would otherwise be somewhat lost in the clutter 23:21:42 do you have the dia source? 23:21:50 that is, can I have it? 23:21:57 :D 23:22:02 I don't mind the sideways arrow, fwiw 23:22:03 (should be easier to show than to tell) 23:22:33 ah, omnigraffle. should work, too (: 23:22:51 I have SVG too, though inkscape has some trouble with the fonts. 23:22:55 Hold on. 23:23:00 yeah, OG works for me 23:25:14 antifuchs: http://common-lisp.net/~loliveira/tmp/sbcl-make-diagram/ 23:25:48 great. I'll have OG in a minute 23:26:15 graffle files are xml plists 23:26:17 luis: is that embedded TeX I see there ? 23:26:18 demmel_ [n=demmel@p5B0C0292.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:26:43 fe[nl]ix: the backslash stuff? that's RTF. 23:26:46 fe[nl]ix: I think it's RTF 23:27:35 -!- macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["'night 'night"] 23:29:48 Quadre` [n=quad@24.118.241.200] has joined #lisp 23:30:09 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:30:54 -!- Quadre` is now known as Quadrescence 23:34:20 *hefner* debates his willingness to hack around libmpg123 brain damage 23:34:52 even if I fix the undefined symbols thing on newer versions of the library, there's still their flagrant disregard of the x86 ABI to contend with. 23:34:59 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177144179.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:35:37 these are all easy for me to hack around on my own system, but if the alternative is asking people to recompile their copy of the library, I might as well provide my own. 23:37:59 hefner: try another library 23:38:10 like libmad 23:38:16 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 23:38:29 or ffmpeg maybe 23:39:01 hmm, didn't know about libmad. if someone had told me about that six weeks ago, I'd have used it instead. 23:39:05 What does mpg321 use? 23:39:10 luis: libmad 23:39:11 :D 23:40:49 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:42:01 -!- demmel [n=demmel@91.12.8.57] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 23:42:14 Adlai: there was some primitive shaker for SBCL, more like proof-of-concept 23:43:01 incredible how every native library (alsa, mpg123) turns out to be completely braindead. another victory for "library-oriented programming" 23:43:15 luis: am thinking of http://boinkor.net/misc/sbcl-build8.png 23:43:21 (something like that, at least 23:43:31 hefner: it's not because of "library", it's because of the language used, C. 23:43:43 pjb: I don't think that's true. 23:43:49 I'm currently fighting with libusb and indeed, it's rathher braindead. 23:43:57 ..although it doesn't help. 23:44:12 I aligned the steps so that generated data and time can be seen as flowing down, and later steps are below earlier steps 23:44:32 what did you use to make that in the first place? 23:44:38 this can be compressed into something that's shorter and less narrow, but I rather like how the "sbcl" build result and sbcl-cold.core lign up 23:45:09 "line up" - that was entirely unintentional wordplay there. 23:46:11 antifuchs: cool, I gotta run now, but I'll look at it more carefully tomorrow. Thanks for all the suggestions. 23:46:37 luis: .graffle is there, too 23:46:43 ah ok 23:46:46 cool stuff 23:48:49 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@217.194.205.196] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:52:37 -!- sohail is now known as sohail|freakingh 23:52:40 -!- sohail|freakingh is now known as sohail 23:57:31 chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-96-255-111-135.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:57 -!- ridip [n=user@68-184-214-75.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]