00:00:05 for 'do'? 00:00:16 except that you don't actually want to use do in such a case for efficiency reasons, but ah well.. 00:00:28 ugh 00:00:46 Ah, yes, when the initialization and increment are the same form. 00:00:53 (do ((var #1=(some complicated computation) #1#)) (nil) etc) 00:01:13 But be careful with ## in source, because if you have a circular form, behavior is not determined. 00:01:25 that's because DO isn't nice 00:01:30 An interpreter may do well, but a compiler will often enter an infinite loop. 00:01:34 pjb: I just tried the thing in the topic, I know ;-) 00:01:44 :-) 00:01:55 I put (setf *print-circle* t) in my rc files. 00:03:27 better (shiftf counter (1+ counter)) 00:04:07 are you sure the behaviour is always undefined? I mean, constructing (not printing) a list like #1=(0 #1#) should be a perfectly legal alternative to (let ((l '(nil))) (setf (cdr l) l)) should it not? 00:04:37 I love it when I get to use shiftf or rotatef 00:06:30 um, '(0) in this case btw 00:07:24 they're like large-scale versions of the processor operations that P4 is bad at :) 00:08:07 sytse: That is undefined behavior because you are modifying literal data. 00:08:17 I'm sorry to bother 00:08:55 but looking how to set dvorak layout I found that there are 6 different layouts 00:09:01 which one should I select? 00:09:59 sytse: Oh, that's what you were saying I guess. 00:10:07 Blkt: standard dvorak. 00:10:19 just plain dvorak, in X 00:10:38 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:39 why not programmers' one? 00:10:55 why do you want the programmer's one? 00:11:19 well, seems to have a lot of òàèéì symbols I could use 00:11:22 (I'm italian) 00:11:50 Blkt: programmer dvorak \o/ 00:11:56 http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/ 00:11:58 lol 00:12:20 do not want 00:12:36 you don't want ( and ) to be accessible without shift? ;-P 00:12:54 not necessary 00:13:05 I already have () at shift+, and shift+. 00:13:22 lol, numbers are shifted 00:13:36 that seems really silly 00:13:38 didn't notice that at first 00:14:34 and in the original dvorak order, instead of in qwerty order (that is, ordered) 00:15:24 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [] 00:16:19 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 00:17:17 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-74-74-202-180.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:20:31 javax [n=javax@galaxy.infidyne.com] has joined #lisp 00:23:21 Alestan [n=Logan_Pe@208.81.152.74] has joined #lisp 00:23:28 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:27:07 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 00:28:25 Hey all, quick question I hope someone will answer for me. I am trying to write a multi threading clisp script. I am using the MAKE-PIPE-IO-STREAM function, but it doesn't seem to be working properly. The command I am using to set up the IO stream is (setf xyzzy (EXT:MAKE-PIPE-IO-STREAM "clisp datagather.clisp")). I can read from the stream, but when I write to it, it claims to work, but I get no signs of life from the second script. 00:29:29 maybe buffering? 00:29:38 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B517.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:29:45 How would I check? 00:29:59 clhs finish-output 00:30:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm 00:31:41 that did it, 00:32:08 thanks a bunch guys 00:32:15 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:33:05 sytse: hell, dvorak is freaking intuitive! 00:33:44 I'll definetly give it a try next days 00:34:23 gn everyone 00:37:15 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:35 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 00:39:28 boyscare1 [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:31 -!- boyscare1 [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:40:07 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:21 mejja [n=user@c-87bae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:45:20 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 00:46:00 -!- asksol [n=ask@160.217.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:48:11 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:48:39 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:55 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:49:42 does linedit use a history file ? 00:52:23 what is the best pracitice for debugging cl programs? 00:53:03 leo2007, make sure to develop incrementally. 00:53:10 using Slime's debugger 00:53:17 man this really sucks 00:53:17 clhs break 00:53:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_break.htm 00:53:24 i can't font-lock lisp 00:53:55 -!- Blkt [n=Blkt@net-93-146-155-178.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:55:02 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:55:06 stassats`: sometimes the program runs fine but the return value is wrong 00:55:18 clhs trace 00:55:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_tracec.htm 00:55:31 I have seen that this afternoon and I debugged with print plus reading the code carefully 00:56:00 and slime's slime-toggle-trace-fdefinition 00:56:13 Uhh 00:56:18 How do I access slime in emacs? 00:56:27 *stassats`* likes reading the code 00:56:35 tyg13: M-x slime 00:56:38 minion: please tell tyg13 about slime 00:56:40 tyg13: look at slime: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/slime 00:56:47 tyg13: if you've set it up 00:56:49 minion: please tell tyg13 about clbuild 00:56:50 tyg13: direct your attention towards clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 00:57:00 I installed clisp and emacs and slime 00:57:05 -!- Alestan [n=Logan_Pe@208.81.152.74] has left #lisp 00:57:19 why clisp? 00:57:32 Because the other suggestion wasn't working/. 00:57:41 When I ran it, it just gave me a blank prompt 00:57:41 stassats`: thanks. 00:57:52 ,debug 00:57:57 And when I tried to type something in it just kept appending numbers to the prompt 00:58:07 which reset after about 10 00:58:44 you either installed it wrong, or your packages in your distribution are screwed 00:59:03 sbcl 00:59:26 So I installed clisp 00:59:41 plage` [n=user@118.68.32.211] has joined #lisp 00:59:45 get sbcl from www.sbcl.org 01:00:56 or maybe read the slime info manual better? 01:01:04 Haven't read it yet 01:01:30 shame on you :-P 01:01:47 I'm not used to reading man pages 01:01:51 Or info pages for that matter 01:02:14 mm, I've always found them very useful 01:02:17 read PDF pages 01:03:06 one of those things that REALLY make the difference between *nix and other operating systems 01:03:48 :( but they're so foreign 01:04:01 I try not reading them, although sometimes it -is- unavoidable 01:04:26 though learning to use info can take the better part of half an hour, so I can imagine someone not having the patience to do that 01:04:34 Always littered with random *commandhere*(819271) 01:04:42 See suchandsuch for more info 01:04:53 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:05:10 Although maybe thats just manpages 01:05:22 Because I just typed info slime and it seems pretty readable 01:05:55 -!- merimus [n=merimus@c-67-171-83-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:06:06 *sytse* still hasn't had the patience to learn dvorak properly.. just switched to it again to try to improve but half an hour every month doesn't really help ;-) 01:06:13 Heh 01:06:21 -!- plage [n=user@118.68.32.211] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:06:28 I tried to learn dvorak and I ended up with gibberish a lot 01:06:42 Plus it didn't really speed up my typing speed once I learned it 01:06:52 Its sort of useless 01:07:00 I already type so fast on QWERTY I have a hard time believing that any imnprovement via dvorak wouldn't be worth the hassle of having to know two layouts 01:07:03 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 01:07:04 though maybe I'm just a speed junkie.. my typing speed with dvorak is still less than half that of qwerty 01:07:09 I've been using dvorak for a few years. I still type slower than I did in qwerty. 01:07:16 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 01:07:25 *sytse* about 500 cpm with qwerty 01:07:30 but it's much more comfortable. Probably because I learned 'proper' typing technique. 01:07:32 cpm? 01:07:34 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-205-4.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:34 450, maybe 01:07:37 so that much has kept me using it :) 01:07:39 chars per minute 01:07:42 ah 01:07:54 How do you guage your chars per minute? 01:07:59 gauge* 01:08:42 I type maybe 80 or 90 wpm but I'm not really sure what that is in chars 01:08:47 http://www.typeonline.co.uk/typingspeed.php <-- I kinda like this one 01:09:07 wpm * 5 usually does it. 01:10:06 I get 450 here http://speedtest.aoeu.nl/ 01:10:29 95 on your first link sytse :| 01:10:36 hm. 86. 01:10:39 I guess that with a better keyboard, I could get much higher though 01:10:40 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-73.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:10:54 -!- anekos is now known as A_anekos 01:10:59 MS natural keyboard with the split 01:11:18 355 01:11:19 none of this wimpy "arc so people who are scared of splits don't freak out" 01:11:19 cpm 01:11:44 Turns out I've slowed down in typing speed 01:11:49 Because now i'm about 71 wpm 01:11:50 say what you will about MS's other product areas, they brand great keyboards and mice 01:11:50 -!- plage` is now known as plage 01:11:53 Instead of 80 01:12:27 86 01:12:55 how can i convert vim's syntax highlighting scheme into emacs's? 01:12:57 though I was a little slow pushing the fucking button ;-) 01:13:07 *ahaas* misses xach 01:13:13 Bigshot__: manually :P 01:13:19 xach :( 01:13:31 MORE LISP 01:13:37 minion: chant 01:13:38 MORE LISP 01:13:38 no, TYPING 01:13:51 type more lisp code 01:13:55 vim has so sexy lisp program highlighting scheme why not emacs? 01:13:56 *sytse* used the inkpot theme someone else already converted into an emacs color-theme theme and modified it somewhat :P 01:14:03 (format nil "MORE LISP") => "MORE LISP" 01:14:04 measure typing in sexprs per minute 01:14:27 minion: chant 01:14:28 MORE TYPING 01:14:43 MORE DRINKING 01:15:05 minion: chant 01:15:05 MORE LISPING 01:15:32 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:15:36 My cousin is a lisp fanatic 01:15:40 *stassats`* switches emacs buffer to do so 01:15:42 And his () keys are all worn out 01:15:48 pjb bud you got any ideas? as to how to highlight this lisp syntax? 01:15:48 they don't work well anymore 01:15:58 remap to other keys 01:16:08 get a keyboard that doesn't suck. 01:16:12 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:16:16 Bigshot__: Have you tried asking in #emacs? 01:16:22 Bigshot__: it just works: M-x font-lock-mode RET 01:16:23 yeah 01:16:33 remap kl to (), no one needs those anyway 01:16:52 i've also installed color-theme but they all suck they don't highlight words like setq , numberp etc 01:16:52 o( 01:17:28 Bigshot__: you may also M-x customize-variable RET global-font-lock-mode RET and set it to t. 01:17:50 pjb done all that 01:18:09 Perhaps the same color is used for all faces. You may edit a face by puting the cursor on some text, and M-x customize-face RET RET 01:18:38 heh how come vim comes with so much of pretty highlighting and not emacs? 01:18:52 Bigshot__: That has nothing to do with the topic of this channel. 01:18:59 Bigshot__: I don't know what you mean, emacs has alot of highlighting. 01:19:05 but it's all lisp 01:19:11 Bigshot__: mm, that's odd.. My inkpot variation works just fine 01:19:30 Bigshot__: are you sure you have a color screen? 01:19:38 Bigshot__: are you sure you're not becoming color blind? 01:19:42 hehe 01:19:56 let me show you a screen shot ;-) 01:20:21 but it does work quite differently than vim.. numberp, for example, isn't hilighted 01:21:13 Bigshot__: http://mmondor.pulsar-zone.net/img_gallery/screenshots/lisp-iolib-test4.png 01:22:27 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:29 horrible... 01:22:42 phadthai: you don't have "setf setq eq" highlighted 01:23:09 indeed, it's possible to highlight them but it doesn't by default 01:23:12 *hefner* is now increasingly convinced that syntax highlighting rots the brain 01:23:23 http://speedy.student.utwente.nl/~sytse/emacs-init.el.png 01:24:24 Bigshot__: example to add XXX to be highlighted: http://pastebin.ca/1468275 01:24:45 phadthai: hey, another emacs cvs user \o/ 01:24:50 ooo 01:25:03 doing that manually is unmanly :? 01:25:25 I only switched to emacs when it got xft support, have always been a loyal vim user ;-) 01:25:37 sytse: :) although I also use vim+cscope a lot for C 01:25:45 Bigshot__: You may use font-lock-add-keywords to colorize specific regexps. 01:26:01 *sytse* just uses emacs these days, I got to like it :) 01:26:06 that way isn't real man -- i need something cool that does it automatically ! 01:26:13 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-205-4.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:26:17 hefner: lets open a club of non-font-lockers! 01:26:34 Bigshot__: write your something cool yourself! You've got a ~/.emacs, it's for something. 01:26:45 ##lisp-monochrome :) 01:27:10 vims 2html is pretty nice though 01:27:25 and its character insertion feature 01:27:36 phadthai: can you write something that converts vim syntax highlighting to lisp emacs highlighting? 01:27:59 Bigshot__: I'm sure it's possible, but it's definitely not important enough for me to try :) 01:28:18 Bigshot__: you should ask how much it will cost 01:28:51 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:28:57 *change* 01:28:59 hehe 01:29:06 sytse: how is 2html better than htmlize? 01:30:14 -!- tyg13 [n=tyg13@ip68-9-205-46.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 01:31:02 -!- plage [n=user@118.68.32.211] has left #lisp 01:31:16 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:31:31 danlei: dunno 01:32:26 how can i pass on vim lisp source code to clisp what packages are available for vim? 01:32:33 wood, I just scored 490 WPM 01:32:36 *woot 01:33:08 I_Like_Turtles [n=user7994@187.34.41.243] has joined #lisp 01:34:00 -!- I_Like_Turtles is now known as dalton 01:34:05 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:14 now doesn't this suck? http://picpaste.com/shot.jpg 01:34:17 -!- dalton is now known as OrgaASMatron 01:34:24 Adlai: by copy-and-paste? 01:34:42 uh, no, by typing 01:34:42 that's pretty ugly 01:35:39 how's your screenshot sykopomp? 01:37:55 I use a modified hober2 and I like it ... http://picpaste.de/emacs-mode.gif 01:39:23 if there are too many colors used, and too many things are highlighted, I always feel like looking at some kind of parrot or clown :) 01:39:54 Bigshot__: http://omploader.org/vMXYwcA 01:41:19 sykopomp: don't you want setf highlighted wouldn't that help in comprehension a bit? 01:41:21 -!- OrgaASMatron is now known as dalton 01:41:29 Bigshot__: no. 01:41:46 what color-scheme is that? 01:41:54 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-74-74-202-180.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:42:00 don't remember. I customized a lot of it, too. 01:42:06 ahh ok 01:42:10 or maybe I just customized the ERC version of it. 01:42:12 I forget. 01:42:56 ah. It's whatever theme gets automatically picked by emacs when I have palegreen3 as the foreground color and gray9 as background :) 01:42:59 so there you have it. 01:43:03 I also like to have dark red parens so that they're not too visible, but these are more invisible than mine :) 01:43:32 I don't like making the parens jump out. 01:46:07 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:46:44 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:50 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:49:03 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B169BD5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:49:30 -!- mejja [n=user@c-87bae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:56:58 -!- argible [n=argible@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:56:58 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.249.237] has joined #lisp 01:58:19 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:00:12 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:02 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:03:36 xinming__ [n=hyy@125.109.244.82] has joined #lisp 02:04:21 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.247.79] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:05:10 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-160-45.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:10 dandelion is not available for windnows? 02:06:22 windows 02:11:31 it should be 02:11:46 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 02:13:13 plage [n=user@123.20.88.31] has joined #lisp 02:13:20 Good morning. 02:13:33 retupmoca [n=retupmoc@ppp-69-221-252-243.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:42 Bigshot__, it's an eclipse plugin? i think on linux you can only use sbcl with dandelion not clisp the standard 02:14:19 can you give me the link for eclipse krumholt_ i want dandelion with clisp 02:14:37 Lectus [n=Frederic@189.105.10.45] has joined #lisp 02:14:55 oh got it 02:15:40 Bigshot__, not sure if clisp works under linux with dandelion but sbcl will 02:15:53 i am using vista not linux 02:16:01 do you have direct link for plugin? 02:16:03 it should work well then 02:16:14 so that i can install it via eclispe 02:16:17 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:17:22 http://dandelion-ecl.sourceforge.net/update/ 02:17:23 i mean what's the webaddress so that i can install it from Help software updates 02:17:38 Bigshot__, not sure thats still working 02:18:40 chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:26 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.249.237] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:23:01 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:06 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:23:47 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2ECEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:24:33 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:25:25 krumholt_: where should i extract this? 02:25:58 de and lib folders 02:26:40 krumholt_, the automatic installation thing did not work? 02:26:52 no it didn't work 02:27:22 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:27:46 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:28:22 Bigshot__, than i am afraid i cant help you. i'm never manually installed it 02:29:19 Bigshot__, i used this instructions http://www.cliki.net/Dandelion 02:31:45 saikat_ [n=saikat@76.102.86.244] has joined #lisp 02:33:59 Is there a way to have cffi-grovel pass certain flags when it does it's grovelling. I have my libraries installed in a non-standard directory. 02:34:18 Of course that was meant to be a question. 02:37:28 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@76.102.86.244] has quit [] 02:39:08 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-194.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:40:26 Was kinda asking this earlier, trying again hoping more are around :) I'm trying to stub out the input/output streams for the process execution for CL. problem is I understand how to make an output stream easily, but the input stream - well, not so easily. Here's a code sample of what I tried: 02:40:34 http://paste.lisp.org/display/82194 02:41:04 I've tried other things too, but reviewing PCL, documentation, and Common Lisp - The language..I so far haven't found a really good solution to this. 02:42:09 clhs make-string-input-stream 02:42:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_s_1.htm 02:42:55 I thought about that as well, but I have to pass a string to it to my understanding, which if I (format out "..."), and then do a (read-line in), they aren't tied..if that makes sense. 02:45:50 -!- xinming__ [n=hyy@125.109.244.82] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:46:17 what you want to do with it? 02:46:30 rullie [n=rullie@CPE00179acf86ed-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:46:45 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.129.198] has joined #lisp 02:47:44 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:49:19 Well, what I'm doing is using sb-ext:run-program to execute sh, bind it to an input/output var which works fine - and pass commands through it and then read-line the output of the commands passed. To get a handle on unit testing within lisp, I wanted to stub out that process into two streams that are passed back from a function that I'm overriding in my test method, which I can then pass commands to normally then when reading the stream of the s 02:49:49 The stubbing out process is why I'm doing this though, but also to get an idea of using streams that aren't disk streams in lisp is a second reason why at this point. 02:50:17 -!- dalton is now known as poe 02:50:39 -!- poe is now known as poeta 02:51:17 -!- poeta is now known as Run_com_Coca 02:53:24 -!- Run_com_Coca is now known as Cuba_Libre 02:54:13 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:54:37 Are there any common lisp implementations available for arm? I've been looking around but failed to find any, save a mention ages ago about someone starting an sbcl port. 02:55:07 clisp should work on ARM 02:55:34 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:55:41 oh, really? 02:56:21 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 02:56:55 ah, awesome, I missed that completely 02:57:05 thanks :) 02:57:54 Something like get-output-stream-string is what I think I need, but something that I can return a stream from...hm.. 02:59:46 -!- Cuba_Libre is now known as ausente 02:59:46 wait a minute 02:59:57 couldn't you just compile sbcl on clisp and thus have an arm sbcl? 03:00:20 no 03:01:43 simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:02:48 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:03:08 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:58 krumholt_: this dandelion doesn't come with all the bells and whistles? 03:05:33 it seems pretty simple plugin with not goodie functionalities 03:05:40 krumholt_, what are all the bells and whistles? it does auto completion 03:05:56 you can compile code evaluate code 03:06:03 Ralith: Someone would have to decide on things like calling conventions, and someone would have to write a code generator for the ARM instruction set. 03:06:14 auto completion what's the shortcut key for it? 03:06:47 Bigshot__, ctrl + space i think. it's the same as eclipse for java 03:07:04 fvw [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.143] has joined #lisp 03:07:18 yeah anything else it has? 03:07:34 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:07:57 Bigshot__, i think it will show you the functions you defun'ed in the outline 03:08:34 it doesn't have all the gadgetry that SBCL bitfauna plugin has 03:08:51 which one do you like? 03:09:38 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-59-103.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 03:09:50 Bigshot__, i like emacs :) as far as eclipse goes i really like it for java but not so much for lisp 03:10:11 -!- plage [n=user@123.20.88.31] has left #lisp 03:10:16 krumholt_ do you know how can i highlight setq numberp setf etc in emacs? 03:10:23 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.143] has quit [Client Quit] 03:11:11 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-111-173.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:11:26 krumholt__: this is how dull the code looks in emacs http://picpaste.com/shot.jpg 03:11:34 Bigshot__, why would you want to do that? 03:12:04 because it's an inbuilt function and it does get highlighted in vim 03:12:45 *stassats* is already tired of this highlighting crusade 03:13:21 let me pm you then krumholt__ 03:13:39 Bigshot__, well i had the same problem starting programming in lisp. comming from java i really liked the blue "built in" functions. 03:16:39 the details of the syntax hilighting scheme were a problem for you? 03:16:39 wtf? 03:17:14 brain damage, like I said. 03:17:22 Ralith, no the not highlighting anything part was 03:17:40 krumholt__: that's a function of your editor, not the language... 03:19:10 Ralith, i know but as lisp is so different from other languages. you dont get the niffty colourfull syntax arround the actual code. which is totally useless. i just was used to looking for it. 03:19:19 krumholt__: that's a function of your editor, not the language... 03:19:47 *stassats* already heard that somewhere 03:20:01 I get the impression krumholt__ didn't quite, though. 03:20:13 Ralith, i really don't wanna discuss that 03:21:14 carbocalm [n=user@75-119-234-173.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:24:09 -!- Bigshot__ [n=BIG_SHOT@CPE002129abc864-CM001ac35cd4d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]"] 03:26:06 I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but what does #1=(programmable . #1#) mean/do/why is it clever 03:26:10 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:26:22 clhs #= 03:26:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dho.htm 03:26:52 drafael: It is a literal cyclic structure. 03:27:21 ah 03:28:16 Alestan [n=Logan_Pe@208.81.152.74] has joined #lisp 03:28:57 Hey all, quick question, I'd appreciate if someone can give me a solution. 03:28:57 I put the line 03:29:02 is #n= actually useful, out of interest? 03:29:07 it seems rather pointless 03:29:34 for printing and reading circular and shared structures 03:29:47 ruepel0r [n=rue@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 03:30:14 drafael: It is extremely useful. 03:30:15 when I use (setf *coward* (EXT:MAKE-PIPE-IO-STREAM "clisp coward.clisp")) in the clisp interactive interpreter, it works fine 03:30:46 but when I use it inside a script, and type it fails 03:31:12 the error it gives is "invalid byte #xA0 in CHARSET:ASCII conversion" 03:31:34 can I have an example? :P 03:31:44 drafael, (let ((#1=#.(gensym) 10)) #1#) 03:32:26 drafael: It is more usual to have the printer produce that syntax than humans, though. 03:34:13 clhs #. 03:34:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 03:34:51 drafael, http://paste.lisp.org/display/82210 03:36:21 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 03:39:53 -!- krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-59-103.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:41:37 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-3-60.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 03:44:56 cipher [i=weinsd0@monica.cs.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 03:49:09 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-234.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:52:44 Well, giving what I've done to figure out the whole stream issue for before - I did get it kinda working, although a bit curious how it works and why. I checked the sbcl source for the tests it uses to verify some of what it's doing and came up with a function: sb-sys:make-fd-stream that seems to work fine. 03:53:15 I'll paste the code back in my pastie so others can see what I've done. 03:53:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/82194#1 03:57:25 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:04 jackdaw [n=fircuser@cpe-098-122-166-119.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:01:20 -!- jackdaw [n=fircuser@cpe-098-122-166-119.nc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 04:03:36 jackdaw [n=fircuser@cpe-098-122-166-119.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:04:27 -!- jackdaw [n=fircuser@cpe-098-122-166-119.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:11:48 -!- Soulman [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:11:50 Soulman__ [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 04:22:17 -!- ausente is now known as Motorola 04:27:20 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:29:22 holycow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 04:29:29 lnostdal pasted "ADD-METHOD and type information" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82213 04:34:03 -!- Alestan [n=Logan_Pe@208.81.152.74] has left #lisp 04:44:00 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:36 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 04:46:43 Thomas Bayes (17021761) 04:47:01 sorry wrong channel 04:50:31 you better be! 04:53:19 mogunus [n=marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:32 Hello. 04:53:40 Is there a way to use xft fonts from clx? 04:54:18 mcclim uses freetype somehow 04:54:41 I don't know anything about Xft, but I'll guess no. 04:54:55 Ah. Too bad. 04:55:02 -!- TDT [n=TDT@126.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has quit ["sleep"] 04:55:30 clx is pretty much the only choice for low-level drawing in x though, yes? (window managers etc) 04:56:01 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:56:08 my 30 second understanding of xft is that it is glue between freetype and xrender. In mcclim, we do that bit ourself. 04:58:07 -!- Motorola is now known as Ronald_Jenkees 04:58:17 That's helpful, thank you. 05:00:57 At least now I know what to dig for in the clx code (I couldn't find freetype in their manual at all) 05:03:30 -!- hsuh [n=user@187.36.13.33] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:03:41 I'd peek at the mcclim/Experimental/freetype code to see how to operate the xrender stuff. 05:03:50 it's reasonably straightforward, really. 05:11:05 -!- illuminati1113 [n=user@pool-71-114-64-62.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:13:04 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@ti132110a340-3137.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:13:07 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:13:28 Alestan [n=Logan_Pe@208.81.152.74] has joined #lisp 05:14:32 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:20:39 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:22:36 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@ip70-162-187-21.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:48 ianmcorvidae: heya ian 05:22:50 plage [n=user@118.68.32.211] has joined #lisp 05:22:57 G'day! 05:23:03 morn, plage 05:23:05 -!- mogunus [n=marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:23:26 moin. 05:24:42 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE00179acf86ed-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:26:21 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:26:25 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@ip70-162-187-21.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:25 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-194.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:33:10 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-234.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:22 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.118.69] has joined #lisp 05:33:44 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 05:35:54 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:36:13 hefner: What is the purpose of the glue provided by McCLIM between freetype and xrender? 05:38:52 Raiford [n=rai@234.157-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:21 plage: xrender expects you to upload glyph images per character and renders strings of glyph indices, but has no notion of fonts at all, so freetype is used to generate the glyphs for uploading (and fontconfig or the hardcoded font paths are used to locate the .ttf files) 05:41:29 in that sense, it's much lower level than the traditional x11 text support 05:43:44 I see. 05:43:44 -!- Alestan [n=Logan_Pe@208.81.152.74] has left #lisp 05:50:05 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 06:05:47 -!- Ronald_Jenkees is now known as joe_satriani 06:06:05 -!- joe_satriani is now known as pseudodemocratic 06:10:47 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.131.130] has joined #lisp 06:17:51 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.131.130] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:19:52 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:20:50 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.133.158] has joined #lisp 06:21:29 -!- jthing [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 06:21:57 -!- ahaas [n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-183.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 06:23:20 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.129.198] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:23:42 jthing [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 06:25:39 deylen [n=deylen@62.249.247.182] has joined #lisp 06:26:05 -!- deylen [n=deylen@62.249.247.182] has quit [Client Quit] 06:26:43 Jason2gs [n=Jason2gs@71.238.211.166] has joined #lisp 06:30:59 -!- pseudodemocratic is now known as epura 06:32:20 -!- epura is now known as gregore 06:32:48 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:35:44 -!- Jason2gs [n=Jason2gs@71.238.211.166] has left #lisp 06:37:08 So CLS provides the interface that McCLIM expects? Has anyone considered writing a binding for DirectFB? 06:48:12 I wouldn't quiet describe CLX as the interface that McCLIM expects, judging by the six-thousand lines of code in the CLX backend 06:50:37 Modred [n=modred@cpe-76-184-100-133.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:52:14 -!- lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:56:31 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.22] has joined #lisp 07:00:48 ok, I don't know anything about it. I was just toying with the idea of making a binding for DirectFB so I could make McCLIM apps for it 07:02:08 yan_ [n=rottle@c-69-243-34-3.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:53 xinming__ [n=hyy@218.73.141.82] has joined #lisp 07:10:52 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-4-235.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:11:45 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.133.158] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:13:16 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-160-45.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:13:24 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.22] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:15:50 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:15:50 Good morning, everyone! 07:16:40 hello tic 07:19:30 [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.112] has joined #lisp 07:21:24 Jason2gs [n=Jason2gs@71.238.211.166] has joined #lisp 07:21:26 -!- Jason2gs [n=Jason2gs@71.238.211.166] has left #lisp 07:22:13 jbjohns: that's certainly doable, although defining all the drawing operations would take some effort 07:23:00 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:24:11 hi lisp 07:24:28 hello holycow 07:28:58 mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:29:14 hello 07:29:56 hefner: isn't there some library that you can feed c header files and it makes the cffi code? 07:30:17 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-3-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:34:51 hello mrSpec 07:35:29 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 07:36:00 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:36:24 jbjohns: probably. that's not what I'm referring to. 07:36:36 oh 07:37:04 morning 07:37:10 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:37:46 Alestan [n=Logan_Pe@208.81.152.74] has joined #lisp 07:37:57 i haven't played games in years ... http://www.joystiq.com/2009/06/19/thirteen-uncut-unedited-minutes-of-god-of-war-iiis-e3-demo/ 07:38:11 offtopic, but damn, games are not better than movies cinematically 07:38:23 jbjohns: I'm referring to the various forms of line, polygon, ellipse, and text drawing that a backend is expected to perform, with variable line widths, joint/cap styles, dashes, and other silliness 07:38:43 to me, doing all that correctly sounds like a lot of work. on the other hand, I'm pretty lazy. 07:39:57 hefner: heh. I'm sure it is, but I'm not happy with status quot so it might be worth doing. I've never really done anything big in graphics anyway. This might be a good excersise. But I'm not promising anything of course. Lots of projects are in front of this one. 07:40:01 Hey everyone, quick question: When I use (EXT:MAKE-PIPE-IO-STREAM "command") in the interactive interpreter, it works fine, but if I try to load a script that uses it, it return an error, 'invalid byte #xA0 in CHARSET:ASCII conversion. Any idea what I can do about it? 07:42:17 not = now 07:43:16 Alestan: make sure your external formats match the characters that you're forcing down streams 07:43:28 (apropos "EXTERNAL-FORMAT") or read the clisp FAQ 07:43:48 jbjohns: another approach might be to borrow the existing cairo drawing medium (from the Gtkairo backend) and target it to your framebuffer instead. Although the Cairo medium is rather slow. 07:49:37 *hefner* grumbles about X11 not including at least the ability to draw rotated text in increments of 90 degrees 07:59:15 grumble grumble 07:59:35 thanks. 08:04:18 Raiford_ [n=rai@234.157-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:45 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:08:21 -!- Alestan [n=Logan_Pe@208.81.152.74] has left #lisp 08:12:35 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:17:14 -!- Raiford [n=rai@234.157-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:29:46 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 08:35:15 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:35:37 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:38:43 -!- yan_ [n=rottle@c-69-243-34-3.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:38:53 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:39:13 milanj [n=milan@93.87.150.99] has joined #lisp 08:39:16 -!- xinming__ [n=hyy@218.73.141.82] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:39:57 mrguser [i=entropie@116.59.32.157] has joined #lisp 08:41:02 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.132.127] has joined #lisp 08:42:38 -!- roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-148-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 08:43:09 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-151-232.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:43:42 saikat_ [n=saikat@76.102.86.244] has joined #lisp 08:44:19 KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-2-207.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:47 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:48:35 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@76.102.86.244] has quit [Client Quit] 08:50:15 -!- KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-9-120.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:51:18 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:31 saikat_ [n=saikat@76.102.86.244] has joined #lisp 08:56:05 entropie [i=entropie@116.59.130.226] has joined #lisp 08:58:16 -!- entropie [i=entropie@116.59.130.226] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 08:59:17 -!- a-s [n=user@92.81.133.212] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:02:08 lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 09:09:27 Pierow [n=user@121.90.114.22] has joined #lisp 09:10:12 ejs [n=eugen@38-23-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:28 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A875.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:10:31 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.118.69] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:11:21 Hello I am just starting out with Lisp and have a question: Is it possible to call C++ functions from within Lisp? As in could I write a program in Lisp that uses C++ API's? 09:11:25 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.123.114] has joined #lisp 09:14:30 blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:42 reynard [n=alan@n218103173132.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 09:16:38 -!- reynard [n=alan@n218103173132.netvigator.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:16:43 The problem with C++ is name mangling. If you call a function: foo_bar(); it's probably not actually called foo_bar. It's probably something like: foo_bar_axsdf() or something. I think they've standardized how this naming is done but I don't follow it anymore so I don't know the status 09:17:17 <_3b> "a problem", not "the problem" 09:17:21 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 09:17:33 There may be a lisp library that can deal with it, but in the mean time you can just declare the functions you want to call "extern C" and then that name mangling doesn't happen so all FFI libraries in lisp can call it 09:17:38 <_3b> don't forget templates, exceptions, etc :) 09:18:07 _3b: :) 09:19:29 I'm look at the CFFI page now :) I remembered CFFI popping up yesterday when I first started researching this. 09:20:06 There is also UFFI or something like that. I don't know much about them yet, everything I do so far has been pure Lisp 09:20:19 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:23 I do recall seeing on planet lisp some comparisons between the different FFI's 09:20:47 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:57 Have you not written anything graphical? Or does Lisp have a very nice windowing library of it's own? 09:21:28 Like I said I'm brand new :) 09:21:30 mmm can of worms. 09:22:06 interesting how he words that. 09:22:14 asksol [n=ask@17.242.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 09:22:28 good morning tic 09:22:29 ah, perhaps not. 09:22:42 morning, HET2. 09:22:55 *tic* heads off to IKEA. 09:23:18 tic: don't forget to buy meatballs 09:26:16 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:26:19 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:20 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:26:26 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:26:50 'noon 09:27:04 -!- mrguser [i=entropie@116.59.32.157] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:28:20 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-139.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:29:47 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:30:07 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-151-232.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 09:33:28 -!- A_anekos is now known as anekos 09:37:19 I remember seeing meatballs in IKEA in the USA. pretending to be "swedish meatballs". What a joke :) 09:37:42 ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 09:38:01 [Blay] [n=blaay@BSN-142-12-252.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:40 -!- ejs [n=eugen@38-23-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:45:06 Blkt [n=Blkt@net-93-146-155-178.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 09:45:11 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:47:12 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:52:44 Pierow: How did the "graphical" bit fit in? 09:53:56 Windows and such, I was thinking of how Lisp could be used to create a GUI without using C API's like GTK. 09:54:13 I'm guessing Lisp already has a very good GUI library 09:54:47 This CFFI looks to do the trick though :) 09:55:58 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 09:56:30 Pierow: We have the McCLIM implementation of the CLIM standard, but I don't think it works on Windows at the moment. 09:56:35 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-142.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:56:55 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.150.99] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:57:57 oh by windows I just meant a windowing system. Not windows it's self :) 09:58:09 Ah, OK. 09:58:14 I fricken hate windows :D 09:58:21 minion: please tell Pierow about McCLIM. 09:58:22 Pierow: direct your attention towards McCLIM: McCLIM is Mike McDonald's Free and portable implementation of CLIM, the Common Lisp ueber-Graphics Toolkit and a Common Lisp Library. http://www.cliki.net/McCLIM 09:58:40 Pierow: Many people don't like its looks, so be warned. 09:59:06 okay, I'm starting to regret to use a structure for 'song' objects after having to restart my music player for the third time tonight. 09:59:32 right on. But with this new fangled CFFI it looks like I might be able to just use the gtk API. 10:00:13 but thank you very much for the help plage :) 10:03:13 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-a1e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["..."] 10:03:47 anytime 10:04:17 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:05:41 danlei [n=user@pD9E2E33C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:53 mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 10:07:32 -!- Pierow [n=user@121.90.114.22] has left #lisp 10:07:42 ejs [n=eugen@148-102-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:08 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has quit [] 10:11:50 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-243-184.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 10:14:21 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 10:16:03 I love how SBCL softens the blow of the most hated "unable to optimize because: could not optimize away %SAP-ALIEN.." note by formatting it with random indentation and line breaks like a demented poem 10:17:47 -!- asksol [n=ask@17.242.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 10:20:59 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F940.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:44 milanj [n=milan@93.87.150.99] has joined #lisp 10:25:29 nikodemus: here? 10:28:02 -!- ejs [n=eugen@148-102-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:28:54 hefner, lol 10:40:21 is there a fantastically good reason why SBCL's base-char should be the first 128 rather than the first 256 characters? 10:46:33 ..because my current mode of operation is to transparently pass unicode (and whatever else) through this program by using latin1 in and out, and the ability to use simple-base-strings would do wonders toward slimming down the 50 MB of strings I seem to retain at any given time 10:48:31 hefner: perhaps you mean utf-8 bytes, not unicode. Then why don't you pass (unsigned-byte 8)!!!???!???!!!!??? 10:48:49 that's an awful lot of punctuation 10:48:59 and yes, I mean utf-8 bytes. 10:49:05 or whatever. I don't care. 10:49:23 I'm only using damned strings because this was supposed to be quick and dirty, but I'd come so far with them as to almost convince myself that they were a sane alternative to the more cumbersome use of (unsigned-byte 8) arrays. 10:50:33 Well lisp strings are a lot more than C char*, so you have to expect some overhead. 10:50:45 Perhaps you'd prefer use CFFI (:pointer :char) ? 10:50:51 god no 10:50:52 hefner: As I recall Krystof did it that way so as to catch the most errors early on. I would think those problems would have been found by now. 10:51:13 utf8 encoding is optimized for ASCII 10:51:55 it's just really handy to not have to use a binary stream, and be able to use format and things. byte arrays, although (sadly) the only sane way to represent data from outside lisp in this brave new encoding-aware world, are a huge hassle. 10:54:19 for most europen users utf16 is less problemetic. ASCII and iso-latin-1 in the first byte. Though iso-latin-15 would have been preferable (euro character) 10:56:39 For people who have to work with lots of debugging output: Putting (setf swank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* t swank::*dedicated-output-stream-buffering* :none) into your ~/.swank.lisp will do wonders 10:57:35 <_3b> tcr: will that stop it from dieing when too much is printed at once? 10:58:30 I haven't encountered dieing, just having to wait minutes to get the stuff across 10:58:39 it's not a matter of seconds 10:58:43 s/not/now/ 10:58:50 <_3b> that sounds useful too :) 10:59:00 you may want to experience with the buffering scheme, there's also :full and :line 10:59:07 -!- lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:59:08 for practical purposes, death includes wait times longer than the time it takes to kill sbcl and reload 10:59:23 heh true 11:00:15 jthing: I wouldn't risk that latin-1 and/or latin-15 is *most* european users :). 11:01:06 west european sorry. 11:02:39 cyrilic and indic scripts are the big losers with utf-8, iirc. 11:04:26 Zhivago: Why's that? Bytewise? 11:04:52 Yeah, they pay about 300% for most cases. 11:07:02 *hmmm* if i'm in the slime repl and i hit enter at the wrong place before closing parents i get carried returned to the next line. how do i interrupt repl in this instance? 11:07:34 Zhivago: Still I think UTF- is a godsend. For what we had until now. 11:08:23 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:08:27 I'd say that unicode is a godsend, utf-8 is kind of balanced between good and evil. 11:08:45 utf-8 makes it easier for people to pretend that unicode doesn't exist, and thereby get it wrong. 11:09:13 utf-8 is nice for corrupt byte streams, but it's rarely used where that would help. 11:09:58 It's also inefficient for storage and random access, although random access strings are almost always a mistake anyhow. 11:10:12 Zhivago: how do you feel about utf-8b? 11:10:20 <_3b> utf-8 is apparently good for trolling too 11:10:36 holycow: what do you mean with "interrupt"? 11:10:59 -!- plage [n=user@118.68.32.211] has left #lisp 11:11:15 3b: Try to restrain yourself. 11:11:24 <_3b> Zhivago: ? 11:11:38 the repl seems to be 'waiting' for something, when i hit enter i keep on getting carriage returns and not getting it to eval the expression. 11:11:41 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:11:54 holycow: it's waiting for you to close your expression 11:12:02 weirdo [n=sthalik@c157-21.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:12:02 <_3b> Zhivago: i was just commenting on how just the mention of it was enough to troll #lisp 11:12:06 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-234.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:12:10 holycow: just put enough closing parenthess, and then press enter 11:12:13 hey 11:12:15 hefner: It's a reasonable workaround. 11:12:34 tcr: i double checked before asking, it does have the right amount of parens ... weird 11:13:29 nm, i can work around this 11:13:31 thx 11:13:58 hefner: I'm not sure that using it is reasonable. 11:16:37 -!- javax [n=javax@galaxy.infidyne.com] has left #lisp 11:17:53 neither am I, unless the alternative is using byte vectors everywhere. 11:18:24 (unfortunately, the contents of my filesystem aren't reasonable either) 11:18:50 Personally, I'm happier with byte vectors. 11:19:10 Unfortunately CL streams don't like operating on them. 11:19:24 Well, s/byte vector/byte stream/ 11:23:17 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 11:26:39 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:31:58 I suppose I'd have a stronger argument if my data was actually latin-1 and not mostly utf-8 with a smattering of malformed garbage 11:35:43 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:39:37 milanj- [n=milan@79.101.204.14] has joined #lisp 11:43:21 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 11:43:59 Modred_ [n=modred@cpe-76-184-100-133.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:44:20 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:44:25 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2E33C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:00 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[Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:05:03 -!- hyperbor1ean is now known as hyperboreean 12:05:40 -!- gregore is now known as Tongara 12:10:06 jmbr [n=jmbr@195.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:18:07 Tongara2 [n=user7994@189-19-121-109.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 12:22:32 -!- Tongara2 is now known as dalton 12:23:35 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 12:29:28 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@113.77.30.192] has joined #lisp 12:31:15 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 12:32:47 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 12:33:39 -!- Tongara [n=user7994@187.34.41.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:36:38 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:15 Adlai [n=adlai@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 12:37:15 erik naggum sure was one interesting fellow: 12:37:19 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/a05e5e2737bddd69 12:41:18 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 12:42:54 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:43:02 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:06 hefner: why wouldn't you use utf-8b for filenames? 12:46:56 one reason is that SBCL doesn't seem to support utf-8b at all. 12:47:23 right. 12:48:23 and this "use latin1 everywhere" business is tantalizingly close to working fairly well 12:49:26 (I even found a machine with "gnome-terminal" and supporting a utf-8 locale to test that I actually was passing through utf-8 from filenames and id3 tags without mangling it, which was impressive 12:53:39 the novelty of non-ascii characters on my screen still thrills and delights. 12:53:51 -!- ruepel0r [n=rue@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:57:28 enjoy a screenshot of my lisp hack whilst I waste time elsewhere: http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/misc/shuffletron.png 12:58:03 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 13:01:39 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-142.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:03:44 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-59-103.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:06:29 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:07:00 hefner: not sure what it does actually beyond a cli front end for an mp3 player, but it looks like fun 13:08:05 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:15 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:12:24 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 13:12:35 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:12:39 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:12:53 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:15:43 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:16:48 -!- dalton [n=user7994@189-19-121-109.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:17:26 dalton [n=user7994@189-19-121-109.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:18:54 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:20:49 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@80.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:21:48 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-74-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:23:33 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.123.114] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:30:11 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:30:40 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 13:32:34 rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:47 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-160-45.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:58 -!- rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:33:28 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-59-103.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:33:33 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-114-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:34:41 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@195.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:41:49 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-233-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 13:42:20 i can't find any documentation for with-open-stream 13:42:21 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-74-131.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:45:48 clhs with-open-stream 13:45:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_op_1.htm 13:45:48 plage [n=user@118.68.32.211] has joined #lisp 13:45:52 Good evening. 13:46:49 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-200-253-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:49:17 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@113.77.30.192] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:49:29 TDT [n=TDT@126.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:04 mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068210006.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:11 yes, i'm wondering why there is no sbcl documentation of with-open-stream 13:51:35 it is a macro, not a function... 13:51:43 maybe that is why 13:52:02 zophy: because it is not specific to sbcl. It is a standard operator. 13:52:10 zophy: therefore you must refer to the standard. 13:52:19 Doesn't (describe 'with-open-stream) produce some documentation? 13:53:05 zophy, load up erik naggum's hyperspec.el 13:53:45 *lnostdal* notes that prog1 only returns a single (the primary) value .. then discovers multiple-value-prog1 .. :) 13:53:51 weirdo, tnx 13:54:38 too bad there's no efficient way to represent multiple values 13:55:00 > 13:55:06 weirdo: what do you mean? 13:55:08 anyone know if linedit has a history file ? 13:55:52 weirdo, are you saying that a list is inefficient ? 13:56:07 weirdo: are you saying that registers are inefficient ? 13:56:24 weirdo: There are efficient ways to represent multiple values, and the efficiencies depend on how you use them. 13:56:40 the Doctor knows 13:57:23 One fairly obvious technique is to transform a multiple-value-return into a function call. :) 13:57:23 there are for the impl, but user has to use m-v-list or only predefined ways like m-v-prog1 13:57:38 weirdo: how is it not efficient? 13:58:01 pjb, prog1 is fine, but list is wasteful and consy 13:58:11 otoh, a function call is nice and schemey :) 13:58:18 What list? 13:58:20 Why do you talk about list? I thought this was a discussion about multiple values. 13:58:27 Zhivago, m-v-list 13:58:33 *plage* is confused as well 13:58:36 Why are you using that? 13:59:13 Zhivago, say i wanted to implement multiple-value-or 13:59:34 ruepel0r [n=rue@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 14:00:13 Well, I'd be inclined to use multiple-value-call in that case. 14:00:39 Although, I guess that's not much of an improvement given how &rest is likely to be implemented. 14:01:07 On the other hand if you know how many values you have, you can keep them in registers. 14:01:33 I guess it depends on what the semantics of m-v-or are. 14:01:41 (multiple-value-or 3 (get-three-values)) --> (multiple-value-bind (a b c) (get-three-values) (or a b c)) 14:02:57 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 14:03:36 -!- mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068210006.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:04:41 mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068210006.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:54 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 14:09:09 Zhivago: Got time for a couple of unicode questions? 14:15:15 rtoym: Sure. 14:16:40 Is there a way to get memory comsumption statistics during compilation of sbcl? 14:17:12 I got this in a function (setf m0 (rem (+ (* a m0) c) M)) and I am getting this compiler note 14:17:29 doing unsigned word to integer coercion (cost 20) to "", for:) 14:17:29 the first result of inline (unsigned-byte 32) arithmetic) 14:17:35 Zhivago: I was wondering how collation works with multiple collation element listed in the collation table. 14:17:38 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 14:19:07 leo2007: That just means the compiler has to box up the return result of the function. 14:19:22 leo2007 pasted "lcg" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82228 14:19:39 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 14:20:07 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:20:23 ikki [n=ikki@189.139.132.197] has joined #lisp 14:21:01 rtoym: Ugh. :) 14:21:45 Zhivago: Hmm. Maybe my question was unclear? 14:21:59 No. I just don't have an answer. 14:22:21 I've always used application level collation. 14:22:34 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:35 Just checking. :-) The description in the technical report isn't very clear. 14:23:03 I just thought it would be rather nice to have collation support. 14:23:16 Yeah, the basic problem is that collation is very application sensitive. 14:23:44 Well, at least the default unicode collation. Tailoring support would be be bonus. 14:23:53 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:25:50 leo2007: If you want your routine to be fast, you need either a 64-bit lisp, or a new implementation that breaks the work into smaller pieces. 14:30:03 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:30:14 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:30:18 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:31:54 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@80.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:33:04 -!- dalton [n=user7994@189-19-121-109.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit ["Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de"] 14:34:02 dalton [n=user7994@189-19-121-109.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:37:53 -!- dalton [n=user7994@189-19-121-109.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Client Quit] 14:38:44 dalton [n=user7994@189-19-121-109.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:38:44 -!- dalton [n=user7994@189-19-121-109.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:44:50 -!- simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:50:28 sysfault [i=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 14:50:58 hi rtoym! 14:51:24 lots of neat stuff you've been doing lately! 14:54:52 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:56:16 p_l [i=plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-01b63da73d40ceec] has joined #lisp 14:57:17 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:58:54 rtoym: can a 64 bit run on a 32bit os? I am on macos 10.5.7 the underlying hardware is 64 bit but the os is 32bit 14:59:07 nikodemus: Aloha! 14:59:11 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:59:25 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A875.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:59:32 leo2007: That seems highly unlikely. 15:00:18 nikodemus: Not me really. It's all mostly Paul for unicode. 15:00:37 artagnon [n=artagnon@unaffiliated/artagnon] has joined #lisp 15:00:40 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-151-232.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 15:01:27 KingNatoG5_ [n=patrik@84-217-3-27.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:38 -!- ruepel0r [n=rue@203-97-49-162.dsl.clear.net.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:01:40 Could someone please just look at psanford's oauth.el:237 and explain to me what's happening? http://is.gd/18kRC 15:01:54 -!- p_l|backup [n=plasek@pp82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["leaving"] 15:02:56 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 15:03:09 it's calling the function make-oauth-request with some keyworded arguments, right? But where is make-oauth-request defined? 15:03:12 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:38 artagnon: probably in a defstruct form 15:06:11 Soulman [n=kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:06:41 tcr: where? it isn't present in any of the 3 libraries (require)'d 15:08:21 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:10 artagnon: there's a (defstruct oauth-request ...) there 15:09:35 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:09:35 rtoym: oh, SSE2 is cool too :) 15:09:54 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c157-21.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:10:46 nikodemus: Yeah, packed complex sse2 is cool. It seemed the obvious thing to do with sse2. :-) 15:10:55 fe[nl]ix && tcr: Oh, sorry. I didn't notice. Thanks! :) 15:11:09 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:11:14 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:13:41 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:14:01 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Network is unreachable] 15:14:31 nikodemus: 1.0.29.23 is nice 15:15:01 nikodemus: You can now also get rid of (info :type :lambda-list), I think 15:16:36 -!- KingNatoG5 [n=patrik@84-217-2-207.tn.glocalnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:16:44 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:17:55 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:15 -!- sepult is now known as Guest62883 15:19:47 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 15:22:34 udzinari [n=udzinari@94-43-70-11.dsl.utg.ge] has joined #lisp 15:23:00 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.139.132.197] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:23:39 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:23:48 tcr: not quite, since some types are represented with closures 15:25:25 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 15:26:04 but you're right in the sense that if we reverted to 1-function-per-deftype, then both deftype docstrings and lambda-lists could be just stored in the expender functions 15:26:42 relating to closures and fun-names, the struct-accessors are closures, and it would be nice if their fun-name would be accurate 15:27:17 tcr: i thought about that, and have a patch that does that 15:27:50 A closure does contain a simple-fun, right? How exactly do they relate? 15:27:53 however, i don't think it's worth the trouble, since the name appears only in the printer -- can't get it in backtraces 15:28:49 dunno, sb-introspect does some struct-accessors related magic; I mimicked it in my function-type patch 15:29:20 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 15:29:38 btw. do you know whether it's possible to get memory statistics for building sbcl? something like peak memory use, and average memory use 15:30:17 nikodemus pasted "for tcr" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82233 15:30:58 tcr: aside from monitoring /proc while building, not really 15:31:55 hm there may be some tool to attach to a pid which monitors and protocols /proc 15:31:57 asksol [n=ask@062016247101.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 15:32:11 tcr: the problem with naming closures is that we cannot go from frame->closure, which is needed for named closures to have their names show up in backtraces 15:32:25 how comes? 15:32:41 a closure is a pointer to a simple function, and a closure environment that simple-fun expects 15:34:16 when closure is called, it's the simple function that ends up being called 15:34:49 Ah ok 15:35:28 -!- artagnon [n=artagnon@unaffiliated/artagnon] has left #lisp 15:35:42 -!- Guest62883 [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:37:42 if we marked simple-funs as belonging in a closure, and added information of the closure-tn there as well... then we might be able to do a frame->closure mapping 15:39:11 I seriously need a faster machine; otherwise hacking on sbcl is no fun 15:39:27 but it's much harder then just adding names to closures -- which is easy, but costs space for marginal benefits as long as the hard part is not there 15:40:11 Would that apply to funcallables in general? 15:40:48 -!- udzinari [n=udzinari@94-43-70-11.dsl.utg.ge] has quit [] 15:41:02 udzinari [n=udzinari@94-43-70-11.dsl.utg.ge] has joined #lisp 15:41:13 nikodemus: we could burn a word on the stack on function call 15:41:21 "this is the object that we're funcalling" 15:42:14 Krystof: good point 15:42:45 really? Cool! I must almost understand this thing 15:42:54 though not in the "dead easy" category either :) 15:44:29 tcr: depending on what you're doing, slam.sh is a godsend 15:44:44 but you probably already know about that 15:45:36 hm no, I didn't 15:45:56 will that work for ir1 hackery? 15:45:57 (for those who don't have it already, On Lisp is available on lulu.com for $13, thought you may want to know) 15:46:11 rullie [n=rullie@CPE00179acf86ed-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:39 tcr: I don't know. 15:46:54 tcr: mostly 15:47:10 it will work as long as nothing in the compiler itself depends on your ir1 hackery 15:47:12 a lot of ir1 hackery can be done in a live image as well 15:47:29 yeah, like putting (break) everywhere :_) 15:47:46 *blush* 15:48:12 sure that's what I'm doing, but I have to restart from time to time because I break compilation 15:48:17 it's hard to remember all the things I touched 15:48:31 I should probably be making better use of git 15:49:05 tcr: one way to work is to have a patch.lisp file, and whenever you change something you put the new definition there 15:49:14 if you have to restart, just reload the patch file 15:49:35 good point 15:50:45 or, never go wrong in the first place 15:51:03 yeah, why all the wrongness? 15:51:07 *luis* sighs :-/ 15:51:45 -!- Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 15:51:52 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 15:52:02 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-144-119.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:54:33 vithorn [n=vithorn@095160144135.rudaslaska.vectranet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:56:13 -!- vithorn [n=vithorn@095160144135.rudaslaska.vectranet.pl] has quit ["(.:Mantis:.) Data to Picard: "No, Captain, I do NOT run Windows." (www.Mantis-Inc.com)"] 15:56:29 vithorn [n=vithorn@095160144135.rudaslaska.vectranet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:58:01 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:58:04 so, does anyone know what dorai sitaram is doing with sbcl? are we looking towards "teach yourself common lisp in most-positive-fixnum days" or what? 15:58:19 -!- sepult is now known as Guest23100 15:58:34 I had missed the idea that Dorai is doing anything at all 15:58:41 maybe I should pay attention to my mail 15:59:11 joachifm [n=joachim@ti132110a340-3137.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:59:17 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:20 he's asked wierd things on the lists: shebang lines in fasls & using vim with cl:ed 15:59:42 well, maybe not wierd, but... not what i would have expected 16:02:08 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:02:14 nikodemus: on what lists ? 16:02:52 -!- Guest23100 [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:54 Google says sbcl-devel 16:04:18 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:04:19 -!- cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:05:05 cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has joined #lisp 16:06:23 -!- milanj- [n=milan@79.101.204.14] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:07:26 -!- vithorn [n=vithorn@095160144135.rudaslaska.vectranet.pl] has quit ["BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it."] 16:08:05 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:25 -!- sepult is now known as Guest56668 16:08:40 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-160-45.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:10:54 milanj- [n=milan@77.46.210.81] has joined #lisp 16:11:18 -!- Guest56668 [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:12:01 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:12:20 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #lisp 16:12:41 How high of a level is Lisp compared to other common languages (Java, C++, etc.)? 16:13:25 ^ 16:13:27 | this high 16:13:28 v 16:13:43 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:13:54 *benny* switches to a 50px font, wow! 16:14:05 Krystof: ? 16:15:05 rouslan: there is no such thing as "high level", either absolute or relative 16:15:30 it's highly task-dependent and style-dependent 16:15:35 Well, obviously C is higher-level than asm, and Java is higher-level than C. 16:15:54 But where would Lisp fit in these comparisons? 16:16:08 Oh, lisp is lower level than C. 16:16:11 why is that obvious? 16:16:13 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:16:39 rouslan: Think carefully. :) 16:17:31 Dr. Zhivago: I think my serial port has a lisp :) 16:17:57 There are two approches to programming. Starting with the machine and then write the language on top to make efficient machine code. The other idea is to start with a abstact idea and then try to make it run as fast as possible this is the idea of Lisp. 16:18:23 Lisp started as a pretty concrete machine. 16:19:19 fundamental [n=fundamen@24-148-122-247.ip.mhcable.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:44 However the two approches are diverging. C++ contains libraries like boost to allow a high level view of the world, and Lisp compilers have evolved to create faster machine code so the choice is not so clear cut. 16:20:20 -!- Blkt [n=Blkt@net-93-146-155-178.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit ["(cons 'java 'sucks)"] 16:20:29 (That said C++ templates are a debugging nightmare, I'd go for Lisp every time.) 16:22:25 Does anyone here use the clisp interpreter/compiler? 16:23:24 fundamental: pjb does 16:23:26 sometimes 16:23:56 in the main read-eval-print loop it likes to preface lines with [1]> or [2]> 16:24:13 and I find it a bit annoying (and not too useful) 16:24:32 I was wondering if there might be some configuration that would let me alter the behavior 16:24:40 i find it more useful 16:24:47 in sbcl you lack that feature 16:25:07 I thought sbcl had a prompt hook ... 16:25:28 yes but no line numbering afaik 16:25:52 input and output numbering is better i think 16:25:56 sepult: (require 'sb-aclrepl) 16:26:21 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:27:25 It might be better, but for now I find it a bit distracting (and with my current experience I cannot really distinguish useful features) 16:28:47 fundamental: http://clisp.cons.org/impnotes/prompt.html 16:29:08 fundamental: you should probably be using SLIME anyway. 16:29:09 fundamental: to learn of *anything* clisp-specific http://clisp.cons.org/impnotes/ is the place to start. 16:29:20 thanks 16:29:29 luis: I am a vim user... 16:29:47 fundamental: I'm sorry to hear that. ;-) 16:30:52 from what I understand SLIME is the way to work with lisp and limp does not seem to provide too much 16:30:54 ayan [n=ayan@fl-69-69-27-16.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:13 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@122.174.70.42] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:31:53 maybe first stupid lisp question of the day: 16:32:01 ahaas [n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-183.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:11 fundamental: There are alternatives. Either work Limp, or try something else entirely. There's Cusp, an Eclipse plugin, then also http://phil.nullable.eu/, Clozure CL comes with its own IDE for the Mac, and of course the commercial implementations do have their own IDEs, too. 16:33:52 how do i enclose the value of a macro parmeter in quotes? 16:34:22 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 16:34:26 ayan: that is a question which shows that your model of what's going on needs improvement 16:34:40 (whether you call that a stupid question is up to you) 16:34:45 I'm stuck in SUB-SUB-SERVE-EVENT, what shall I do? 16:35:00 ayan: what are you trying to accomplish by doing this? 16:35:29 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-160-45.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:36:43 kpreid: i'm trying to build a set of macros for outputting html elements. 16:37:21 i'm starting with an element function that is called like (element 'p "my paragraph") 16:37:22 don't do that. use one of the zillion html libraries already existant 16:37:39 kpreid: well, i'm trying to make this a learning experience. 16:37:53 i'm trying to understand macros. 16:37:59 anyhow. thanks for your help though. 16:38:06 -!- ayan [n=ayan@fl-69-69-27-16.sta.embarqhsd.net] has quit ["ircII EPIC5-0.2.0 -- Are we there yet?"] 16:38:06 well 16:38:10 ... 16:38:15 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:38:44 you smug lisp weenie 16:39:04 I suppose the overall conversation could have been read as not going to provide any further help 16:39:50 kpreid: just out of curiosity, what would be the correct way to quote a macro parameter? 16:41:01 -!- Drakeson` is now known as Drakeson 16:42:08 fundamental: using QUOTE? What exactly do you want to do? 16:42:31 confounds [n=jackalop@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:46 I don't want to do anything in particular (just curious as a lisp newbie) 16:43:46 have you read pcl yet? 16:43:54 Parameters to a macro are not evaluated soa quote is not needed 16:43:58 fundamental: yes, but what would you want to do? ayan said "in quotes". I'm assuming he wants to turn some value into a string? 16:44:27 that is what I assumed he meant as well 16:44:53 nikodemus: parts of it 16:45:17 fundamental: then write-to-string. 16:45:36 fundamental: but it's irrelevant whether your doing that within a macro or elsewhere. 16:45:37 except that if his desired syntax is (element 'p "my paragraph") => "

my paragraph

" then the whole thing should not be a macro in the first place 16:45:41 *you're 16:46:07 *Krystof* fears (p my paragraph) 16:47:08 well using :p is better as it gets's shared, yes. Though I know some peope who would prefer (html:p ...). 16:47:25 :P 16:47:36 the man who has (SETF FORMAT) has nothing to fear! 16:47:57 jthing: I don't think that's what Krystof meant. 16:48:26 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-114-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:50:30 "The rest of this is my code. All mine. Not yours. Mine. Ha. 16:50:33 heh 16:51:41 > 16:54:24 luis: I was younger then 16:54:36 I'm nearly 31 now! 16:54:54 how to compile a .lisp file in a command line? 16:55:06 sreeram [n=sreeram@122.174.71.93] has joined #lisp 16:55:18 good evening. I am trying to use emacs/slime/clisp on windows. Was able to bring up the slime-repl (which, btw is not standard anymore) and works fine up to the first error, from which cannot recover (the CL-USER> prompt never comes back). If somebody can throw me a bone, otherwise i'll go back to RTFM.... Thanks. 16:57:21 _dima_ [i=dima@torch.blackened.com] has joined #lisp 16:57:30 -!- _dima [i=dima@torch.blackened.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:57:55 carbocalm: (poorly made guess) perhaps the error is triggering the built in debugger 16:58:00 in clisp 17:01:36 fundamental: so, I do get the restarts screen; after I press 'q' the restart screen goes away, the prompt does not come back. 17:03:11 carbocalm: I am a bit of a newbie with lisp and have yet to actually use SLIME, so I don't think I can be of too much assistance. 17:05:07 fundamental: thank you, me too... 17:06:10 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:45 Demosthenes [n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 17:07:15 can anyone point me to a tutorial on using one of the regular expression libraries? 17:10:17 carbocalm: when you say 'the prompt does not come back', do you mean that you no longer are in the slime-repl buffer, or that it no longer ends with a prompt? 17:11:39 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:12:50 So does anyone happen to know a tool you can use to attach to a process and see statistics on its memory consumption? 17:15:20 tcr: ps 17:16:47 kpreid: doesn't end with a prompt 17:17:23 fe[nl]ix: I don't think I can get statistics with that. I do not want to look at the data afterwards 17:17:23 carbocalm: consult the *inferior-lisp* buffer for errors disrupting the slime communication 17:17:28 ruediger_ [n=ruediger@62-47-151-23.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:17:41 fe[nl]ix: Erm, I mean I _do_ want to look at the data afterwards 17:18:59 -!- carbocalm [n=user@75-119-234-173.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:19:07 leo2007: (compile-file "file.lisp") 17:19:14 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-160-45.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:19:34 sreeram_ [n=sreeram@122.174.65.109] has joined #lisp 17:20:23 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-144-119.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:20:45 carbocalm [n=user@75-119-234-173.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:04 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:23 Hello all. 17:21:29 hi 17:21:38 howdy nyef 17:22:18 Anyone here familiar with the calling convention interactions with GC and interrupts on SBCL on cheneygc platforms? 17:24:45 *carbocalm* is away 17:25:30 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:26:46 willb2 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 17:27:14 'cause as it stands now, I perceive a couple possible race conditions in call/return, and don't know if/how they are compensated for. 17:27:30 Adlai [n=adlai@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:28:45 is this channel's talk recorded and searchable somewhere? 17:29:12 minion: Tell carbocalm about logs. 17:29:13 carbocalm: have a look at logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 17:29:28 thank you! 17:29:48 (You want search? I hear google has an option to limit to a given site...) 17:32:07 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:33:45 Hrm... Not as bad as I had thought, really. Looks like it's a set of one-instruction windows at XEP and return sites... at least on alpha. 17:34:03 -!- Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:34:24 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-234.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:58 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 17:36:06 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@122.174.71.93] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:36:28 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:36:54 ... Or not? Return sites look to be more complicated... 17:37:26 jmbr [n=jmbr@80.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:37:45 Some amount of code can be executed on some backends before the code register is restored. 17:42:42 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@76.102.86.244] has quit [] 17:46:55 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:47:24 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:49:47 saikat_ [n=saikat@76.102.86.244] has joined #lisp 17:49:47 ... Now that I think this through, I'm more concerned, not less. 17:50:49 Program counter relocation is done based on reg_CODE, but there are times when reg_CODE does not point to the same code-object as the program counter. 17:51:16 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 17:52:43 -!- mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068210006.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:56:22 -!- TDT [n=TDT@126.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:56:37 -!- Lectus [n=Frederic@189.105.10.45] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:58:13 TDT [n=TDT@126.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:07 (The NPC register is the "next PC" for those arches with branch-delay slots, isn't it? That's also relocated based on reg_CODE, which makes function call/return feel even iffier.) 18:02:27 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:48 oudeis [n=oudeis@77.125.112.41] has joined #lisp 18:05:00 pjb: thanks. 18:05:20 stassats: your patch to slime-fuzzy.el has not been accepted. 18:05:34 robewald [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:49 Lectus [n=Frederic@189.105.10.45] has joined #lisp 18:06:00 so? 18:06:08 seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 18:06:33 Bigshot_ [n=BIG_SHOT@CPE002129abc864-CM001ac35cd4d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:37 pjb: 18:07:09 pjb: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/emacs/index.html cvs doesn't work 18:07:28 stassats: I am updating slime and find the bugs in slime-puzzy are there still. 18:08:06 wow what layout do you use that f and p are close to each other? 18:09:37 Bigshot_: you could use darcs: http://darcs.informatimago.com/emacs/ 18:10:41 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@76.102.86.244] has quit [] 18:10:43 tcr: A 10x3 alphabetical array would do the trick. Leaves four keys in the lower right as extras, plus adding another row wouldn't be hard. Either way, it puts #\f right above #\p. 18:11:02 stassats: link is dead 18:11:13 no it's not 18:11:55 nyef: Now tell how did you make this out? 18:12:00 tcr: In dvorak, 'pyf' is where 'rty' is in qwerty. 18:12:14 Jason2gs [n=Jason2gs@71.238.211.166] has joined #lisp 18:12:17 -!- Jason2gs [n=Jason2gs@71.238.211.166] has left #lisp 18:12:50 make this out is probably a Germanism, I meant to say "discover" 18:13:12 stassats: how should i donwload them using cvs? 18:13:46 using darcs 18:14:17 it says connection refused 18:14:40 what's the full cvs command? 18:14:42 Colemak has them adjascent. 18:14:46 tcr: I am constantly amused how many Hebrew speakers pronounce certain loanwords: pilosofiya. pestival. (stems from Hebrew using the same letter for p and f sounds, and the fact that all Hebrew words starting with that letter prounounced with [p]) 18:14:58 Bigshot_: darcs, not CVS 18:15:38 The upper row on colemak is "qwfpgjluy;[]\". 18:15:52 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@nmd.sbx07476.centeva.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:27 Is dvorak really worth learning? read about it here and there..something about less movement over the keyboard while coding. 18:16:42 i think it is 18:17:09 i hit about the same amount of keys as i did with qwerty (dvorak for 18 months), but i make a lot less typos 18:17:24 TDT: I'm looking at the wikipedia page on keyboard layouts now, and there's some comment to the effect that colemak is supposed to be more efficient than querty but also fixes some deficiencies that dvorak has. 18:17:27 not for APL 18:18:01 stassats: what full darcs address should i type to download? 18:18:59 darcs get http://darcs.informatimago.com/emacs/ 18:19:45 a-s [n=user@92.81.130.69] has joined #lisp 18:20:34 Anyway, we've been ignoring the possibilities of chording or stylus input schemes, along with voice recognition (also plausible given the actual error under discussion). 18:20:47 hebrew and arabic should stop with the stupidity and adopt a normal (i.e. resonably phonetic) writing system 18:21:16 stassats: now how can i use it with emacs? what should i write in .emacs file? 18:21:58 no idea 18:22:01 and then there's the bigger problem of the mapping of language words to written forms being many-to-less 18:22:06 Jason2gs [n=Jason2gs@71.238.211.166] has joined #lisp 18:22:08 -!- Jason2gs [n=Jason2gs@71.238.211.166] has left #lisp 18:22:13 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-243-184.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:23:08 Also could be a straight-up custom layout. 18:23:50 nothing straight about that 18:24:09 -!- willb2 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:25:00 when i disconnect from swank, there is this weird message 18:25:04 Lisp connection closed unexpectedly: deleted 18:26:23 Does any one know if that is expected? 18:26:36 so none closed the lisp socket. 18:26:51 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:27:25 ?? 18:27:47 doesn't sound like anything to worry about 18:27:56 benny` [n=benny@i577A2A13.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:28:08 ok 18:28:09 thanks 18:28:32 does it matter how exactly the connection dies, as long as it does and there's nothing left behind 18:28:54 (not even a question mark) 18:29:07 nicer message would be better 18:29:57 You are closing a socket but not endeding the lisp process. I use that sometimes to shut down Huncentoot (webserver). Closing the socket will eventually cause the thread(s) to terminate. 18:30:18 pjb: you there man? 18:30:36 i am getting this Attempt to set a constant symbol: most-positive-fixnum 18:30:51 Why do you try? 18:30:57 try what? 18:31:02 to set a constant. 18:31:10 Constants must not change. 18:31:14 i am not trying it's in the files 18:31:15 disconnect-all does not produce that message tho 18:31:28 pjb-cl.el has it 18:31:40 george__ [n=george@189.107.167.96] has joined #lisp 18:32:00 pjb-cl.el <-- means emacs lisp, not Common Lisp. Are you loading it in Common Lisp? 18:32:25 nope i am loading it in emacs require pjb-cl 18:32:32 it's in my .emacs file 18:32:45 And you get this error? 18:32:50 yeah 18:32:51 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@77.125.112.41] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:33:48 pjb: my emacs doesn't like it either 18:34:01 it's probably new 18:34:02 Well that's strange. I define there a macro named defconstant that actually expands to defconst, so there's no setting of a constant, just a redefinition, if you reload that file. 18:34:10 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:16 I use 22.3.1 18:34:25 Adamant_ [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:27 nikodemus: Can you give advice on when to use stack-allocated lambdas? 18:34:27 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:34:47 You may comment out the defconstant most-positive-fixnum (and probably most-negative-fixnum along), and try again. 18:34:54 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:34:56 -!- jewel_ is now known as jewel 18:35:02 i get another error pjb 18:35:07 CONSTANT-Readable 18:35:27 I just upgraded to 23.1.50 with slime 06-21, everything seems working fine 18:35:34 I don't know what this error means, I never saw it. 18:36:01 oops COPY-READTABLE 18:36:19 And? 18:36:20 Bigshot_: why don 18:36:34 't you use a normal CL implementation? 18:36:34 Symbol's function definition is void: COPY-READTABLE 18:37:07 Well, the only place where COPY-READTABLE is found, is in the middle of that big list of symbols named +common-lisp-external-symbols+. 18:37:10 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:37:12 mikezor [n=mikael@c-36ed70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:37:15 Who tries to call it? 18:37:23 cmm: pjb-cl 18:37:28 oops 18:37:42 pjb: how to find that out? 18:38:00 (setq debug-on-error t) 18:38:01 M-x set-variable RET debug-on-error RET and try again. 18:40:16 where is the debug info piped? 18:40:17 i don't see it 18:40:32 When it breaks, it opens a debug window. 18:40:37 with some backtrace ifno. 18:41:44 Bigshot_ pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82244 18:42:07 Bigshot_: in any case, do you need pjb-cl for something else? Because it's not really good. I stopped working on it, because there is a full CL implementation in emacs lisp, that can be used even to write emacs lisp stuff: emacs-cl. 18:42:12 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:42:14 Bigshot_: you are wasting time and effort, really. emacs lisp is useful on its own, as is CL. things like pjb-cl or emacs-cl are certainly useful for people who already know cl and elisp, understand the limitations thereof and have a specific emacs-related coding task to accomplish. not your situation at all, if you pardon the guess here 18:42:37 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2066.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:43:17 someone in emacs suggested me it to use pjb-font-face 18:43:40 Bigshot_: Yes, IIRC, that reference to COPY-READTABLE is to the COPY-READTABLE that is in emacs-cl. 18:44:02 Bigshot_: are you using slime? 18:44:09 yeah 18:44:20 -!- benny` is now known as benny 18:44:34 Then forget about my pjb-font-face. It's not well done, and somewhat in collision with slime font locking. 18:44:39 Ringo48 [n=Ringo48@97-122-180-214.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:19 is there anyone who has done it well? 18:45:51 done what well? 18:46:10 font-face 18:46:33 Are you still looking for highlighting the car of each form? 18:46:51 *pjb* bbl 18:47:03 ^^ 18:48:11 yesh 18:50:57 borism [n=boris@195-50-201-218-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 18:50:58 google was useless for that matter hehe 18:51:12 Just don't 18:51:19 it's because you want strange things 18:53:46 cl-ncurses can highlight things sendt to a console. 18:56:30 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:56:40 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-233-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:57:09 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has left #lisp 18:57:45 oudeis [n=oudeis@87.68.79.58.cable.012.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:58:15 -!- fundamental [n=fundamen@24-148-122-247.ip.mhcable.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:59:36 varjag [n=eugene@27.80-202-246.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:36 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:00:44 rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:22 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:04:29 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-064-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:01 SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.123.114] has joined #lisp 19:05:35 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 19:05:37 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:06:39 thomas001 [n=thomas@p5B0F7BC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:59 hi,is there a library which does unicode normalization? 19:07:27 there is cl-unicode, but i don't know whether it does normalization 19:07:51 There are denormal forms for unicode? 19:07:57 cl-babel perhaps? 19:08:44 cl-unicode seems like an interface to the character database 19:08:49 -!- rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Rakista has left the planet"] 19:09:13 babel doesn't do that. Not yet anyway. 19:09:46 hmm :-/ 19:09:57 thx 19:10:16 probably more within cl-unicode's scope than babel's 19:10:54 cl-unicode looks like a good start if they store all properties from the UCD 19:12:58 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:04 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-234.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:16:23 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 19:19:49 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-4-235.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:22:34 merimus [n=merimus@c-67-171-83-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:38 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:27:41 -!- merimus [n=merimus@c-67-171-83-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 19:27:58 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:28:16 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:29:28 dalton [n=user7994@189-19-121-109.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:30:00 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 19:30:01 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 19:30:02 *tcr* thanks for sb-ext:*evaluator-mode*, comes handy when you broke the compiler 19:30:13 Heh. 19:30:29 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:30:51 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:08 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 19:32:16 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-114-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:33 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 19:33:39 -!- sysfault [i=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:34:05 -!- drewc is now known as drewcrewc 19:34:47 -!- drewcrewc is now known as drewc 19:37:03 I see a LET binding is translated to some REF node to its lambda, and then there's a BIND node to its lambda. Can anyone explain that off-hand? 19:37:52 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@87.68.79.58.cable.012.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:37:58 (the problem is I get code-deletion notes for both nodes, although they're so similiar 19:39:59 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 19:40:10 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:41:58 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:42:44 uh it's no the same lambda in fact, mumble.. 19:43:15 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:45 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-16-172.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:44:45 *nyef* is half-wondering if he can actually trigger problems with carefully-timed interrupts on cheneygc ports. 19:46:43 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=win7@217.149.190.112] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:48:18 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@nmd.sbx07476.centeva.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:48:38 damn I broke it too much that I can't even execute a SETQ form :/ 19:49:00 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-234.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:25 tcr: I believe that, even without evaluator-mode, you can at least change the value of a symbol. 19:49:35 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:49:46 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@227.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:49:58 Umm... Hrm... But I forget how. 19:50:40 You basically need to know the name of the function used with defsetf for either symbol-value (for the weaker option) or sap-ref-word (for the stronger option)... 19:52:37 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:53:53 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:55:35 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 19:55:36 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:55:38 joast1 [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 19:58:32 ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@87.115.20.62.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:45 Ralith [n=ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 20:00:43 An ork pit on level 6?!? 20:00:56 surely that's illegal! 20:01:17 nyef: nethack? 20:01:20 Angband. 20:01:23 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:28 Just got a "superb" level feeling. 20:01:31 ah, the inferior. 20:01:32 :> 20:01:54 someone should port a roguelike to common lisp. 20:02:02 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:02:13 There are a couple cl rogulikes already. 20:02:20 Have a look at dto's stuff, for example. 20:02:24 those're GUIfical 20:02:27 they don't count 20:02:38 it's not a roguelike if you can't play it in an 80x24 20:02:51 Oops. 20:02:52 there are plenty of those too 20:03:05 whar 20:03:10 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:03:20 Wasn't paying quite enough attention, and got killed. :-( 20:03:50 Please don't mention nethack on this channel. 20:04:03 luis: Don't want to get sucked back in again? 20:04:08 It can seriously hurt the productivity of many regulars. 20:04:10 exactly. 20:04:31 I think I'm done for now. 20:04:59 I lost my latest promising ToME character on Friday 20:05:03 Not Pleased 20:05:05 Ralith: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Timofei_Shatrov 20:05:13 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:16 Krystof: Ah! Someone who might be able to answer my GC questions. 20:05:48 *Krystof* goes to bed 20:05:48 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@80.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:05:48 What? Nooo! 20:05:48 bad luck 20:05:48 mkfort [i=pqq9TWb3@68-189-164-209.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:52 heh. rougelike. 20:05:54 Krystof: Sleep well. 20:06:00 if the questions are easy, I can try before I go... but if the questions are easy you can probably answer them yourself :-) 20:06:10 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:06:36 Yeah, has to do with the handling of the program counter when reg_CODE isn't set up right and a GC gets triggered on cheneygc platforms. 20:06:49 (Which can happen if you catch an interrupt and then GC in the handler.) 20:07:17 There's a single-instruction window on funcall and worse-looking windows on return. 20:10:39 -!- ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@87.115.20.62.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:10:49 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has left #lisp 20:11:15 I find out that by getting rid of the notes, the speed usually is greatly improved. In my paste http://paste.lisp.org/display/82228 20:11:17 the good news (for me) is that none of that was a question :) 20:11:48 How to get rid of this note "doing unsigned word to integer coercion (cost 20), for:" 20:12:09 leo2007: If it's for a return value, the answer is to make sure your return values are fixnums. 20:12:15 leo2007: Or box them manually. 20:12:27 box them? what is that? 20:12:36 it is not for return value 20:12:53 Krystof: Lucky you. 20:14:15 there's no mentioning of fixnum in the note 20:14:29 It doesn't feel like it's a common failure mode, but if it's actually a race condition then it has to be triggered by catching an asynchronous interrupt in one of the windows and then triggering a GC in the interrupt handler and having the two code objects change their relative position during the GC. 20:15:04 right. I can well imagine that this has never been identified as a problem in practice (which is not the same as never having been a problem in practice) 20:15:19 leo2007: What's 4294967296? 20:16:08 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-64-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:16:37 2^32 20:16:56 Ah. 20:17:20 leo2007 annotated #82228 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82228#1 20:17:28 Yeah, you're losing on your return value and the slots in your closure. 20:17:30 -!- Modred [n=modred@cpe-76-184-100-133.tx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 20:18:06 (Do we support unboxed closure slots?) 20:18:08 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 20:18:13 nyef: I have got a faster one in 82228#1 20:18:41 nyef: no 20:19:02 (but the slots don't allocate on every use) 20:19:26 True, but what we have is an unsigned-byte 32 value. 20:20:03 nyef: I cannot understand some of your key comments 20:20:36 Though, (rem x (expt 2 32)) is (logand x #xffffffff), isn't it? 20:20:53 Thus covered by the modular arithmetic optimizations. 20:21:41 I am lost 20:21:47 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1CD0F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:21:52 you mean use rem is good enough 20:21:57 ? 20:21:59 segv [n=mb@p4FC1E3F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:21 No, I mean that I'd optimize the integer version rather than going to floating-point. 20:22:46 Give me half a minute to work out another version... 20:22:53 nyef: thanks 20:23:17 nyef: Please use the newer version I've just posted it 20:23:46 Is the newer version more correct? 20:23:51 the newer version is as fast as the default random 20:23:55 nyef: much faster 20:24:06 Let me see where I can get from the older version, then. 20:24:12 ok 20:25:03 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 20:27:47 -!- confounds [n=jackalop@CPE0013f7f0bd88-CM0013f7f0bd84.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 20:28:14 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 20:29:21 nyef annotated #82228 "Maybe this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82228#2 20:29:35 Not actually tested, merely compiled and the disassembly examined. 20:30:40 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-114-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:31:45 It looks like a and c are sufficiently constant that they aren't allocated in the physical closure, just m0 is. Manually box m0, force inline unboxed math all over the place, and disable all the type and error checking as nothing can really go wrong, and it should be about as fast as it gets. 20:31:46 let me try it out 20:32:36 Possilby not inlinable, though. That'd take a touch more doing but would allow for eliding the boxing overhead for the return value... Not that there's any such overhead on a 64-bit system like I have. 20:33:16 nyef: your version is 5 times slower 20:33:23 Fair enough. 20:33:27 than #1 20:34:25 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:35:12 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 20:35:20 Either IMUL is slow, or there's some memory overhead, then... Or there's some overhead from extending the array contents if you have a 64-bit system. 20:36:36 32-bit 20:37:26 a c are always constants, no change at all 20:37:52 md1 [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 20:37:53 So in disassembly you should be getting pop / lea / mov / mov / mov / mul / add / mov (redundant) / mov / mov (redundant) / shr / lea / clc / mov / ret, right? 20:38:05 how to disassembly? 20:38:11 clhs disassemble 20:38:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_disass.htm 20:38:34 It should be a branchle... Oh, wait. You're still paying boxing overhead on the return value, right... 20:39:18 -!- varjag [n=eugene@27.80-202-246.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 20:39:24 How odd. 20:40:09 there's no MUL in the disassembled code 20:40:12 Well you integer operations seems to ovrflow the 32 bit register. So it extends to bignum. Then it and's out the 32 bits before storing. Very inefficient. A C version would allow the overfow which is what you want in this case. 20:40:16 IMUL, then? 20:40:45 no 20:40:55 jthing: Modular arithmetic should prevent the overflow from causing boxing, as the intermediate result can be stored in an unboxed register. 20:41:12 leo2007 annotated #82228 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82228#3 20:41:30 Yes, I was looking at nyef's version 20:41:32 the output of disassembled 20:42:00 Ouch. GENERIC-*? 20:42:22 -!- dalton [n=user7994@189-19-121-109.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit ["Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de"] 20:42:25 Let me find an x86 SBCL... 20:43:05 Hrm. 20:43:30 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-234.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:45:16 what is boxing? 20:45:37 heap-allocating float-values 20:46:06 in Java that's the difference between float, the intermediate value, and Float, the object 20:46:55 laynor_ [n=laynor@93.107.81.90] has joined #lisp 20:47:13 Heap-allocating -any- values. 20:47:46 yeah of course 20:47:52 Okay, masking down to 32 bits after multiplication and before addition ended up getting everything except the return-value boxing inline, but it's all shifts and adds for some reason. 20:48:08 (Well, shifts and LEAs.) 20:48:18 nyef: do you have a constant multiplier? I blame me 20:48:35 Yeah, multiplier of 1103515245. 20:48:49 there's something that you can push onto *backend-subfeatures* to tell sbcl to prefer imul to add/lea 20:49:12 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:49:25 Looks like 15 bits set over a 31-bit range. 20:50:17 :pentium4 ? 20:51:03 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:51:17 me? 20:51:26 I am on macosx 20:51:48 Processor Name:Intel Core 2 Duo 20:51:54 No, the subfeature. 20:52:09 nyef annotated #82228 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82228#4 20:52:58 nyef: I can see anything related to pentium4 in *features* 20:52:59 bleh how ugly 20:53:39 Intel Core2 Duo is a 64 bit processor. Are you running it in 32 bit mode? 20:53:53 Still some redundent register loads, though... 20:54:01 jthing: Default for SBCL on OSX, I understand. 20:54:11 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.93.74.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:24 ejs [n=eugen@94-16-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:30 nyef: it is closer to #1, now 20:54:39 2m numbers in 0.4 seconds 20:54:53 0.35 to be precise 20:56:32 Hrm. 20:57:08 and #1 computes (m0+1)/(M+1) as return value 20:57:45 -!- laynor [n=laynor@93.107.153.7] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:57:55 Yeah, not sure I can push this any further. 20:58:21 do you think logand is faster than rem? 20:58:37 No, what I'm seeing now suggests that they're equivalent for this case. 20:59:16 could you help get rid of the note in #1? That version is faster 21:00:05 The unsigned-word-to-integer thing? 21:00:14 That's most of what the array junk is about. 21:00:43 We wouldn't even have that (and it'd be cheaper) if we had unboxed closure slots. 21:00:54 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6D902.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:58 dalton [n=user7994@189-19-121-109.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 21:02:30 yeah 21:05:44 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-151-232.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 21:07:07 is anyone using slimv? 21:07:38 it is based on python 21:08:51 nyef: zero-element array access is slow 21:09:06 faster to use a one-element simple-array 21:11:29 nikodemus: how can accessing the non existant element of a zero-element array be slow? 21:12:21 oops, i mean zero-dimension 21:12:38 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-234.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:18 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-182-79.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 21:14:19 hmm? "if any dimension of an array is zero, the array has no elements" 21:14:41 luis: a zero-dimension array is a point, it has one slot. 21:15:04 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-16-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:15:11 (aref (make-array '() :initial-element 42)) 21:15:14 --> 42 21:15:21 -!- SandGorgon [n=OmNomNom@122.162.123.114] has quit [Success] 21:15:52 interesting! 21:17:08 -!- jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]"] 21:17:09 "a zero-rank array therefore has a single element" 21:17:24 Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 21:19:26 -!- Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has quit [Client Quit] 21:21:36 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-234.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:36 Ah, I see my confusion now. Having one of dimensions be 0 is different from having 0 dimensions. 21:21:54 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-234.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:21:57 but they're slow and take up a lo of space (in cmucl and sbcl at least), so they're kind of useless 21:22:11 s/a lo/a lot? 21:22:17 me no type can 21:23:24 Really? 21:23:27 Hunh. 21:23:37 Oh, right, they're based on a simple-vector. 21:23:53 Yeah, that'd save two memory references. 21:24:56 but since the return value will be coerced into a pointer anyways, i'm not sure storing the unboxed one will win much if anything 21:25:07 optimize them! then you can make snotty against implementations who don't 21:25:18 snotty remarks 21:26:54 why is preprocessor-macroexpand-1 different to careful-expand-macro? 21:27:32 don't know/remember 21:27:44 rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:00 -!- rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:28:02 but yeah, unboxed closure values would be neat here 21:28:14 nikodemus: i was hoping more folks would chime in with "that's a great idea!" about my sbcl 1.1 suggestion on sbcl-devel 21:28:28 slyrus: i'll respond tomorrow 21:28:33 oh, great 21:28:57 i just didn't want to be the first, but it seems i will have to be... 21:29:06 nikodemus: only makes sense for immutabl-ish binding. 21:29:43 pkhuong: ? 21:30:19 mm, sbcl-1.1 in december, please 21:30:27 ejs [n=eugen@94-16-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:34 London release party 21:30:34 So, anyone here know about cheneygc and calling conventions in SBCL? 21:30:40 slyrus: I'd go more for a 7.0 release 21:30:55 nikodemus: unboxed closure values. 21:31:13 yes, but why not for mutable value cells? 21:31:14 Krystof: why december? 21:31:16 chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:56 Krystof: why London ? 21:32:01 Blkt [n=Blkt@net-93-146-155-178.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 21:32:01 nikodemus: Oh, right. We could have specialised value cells. 21:32:50 slyrus: december because that's 10 years of sbcl 21:32:53 exactly -- or we could even just use conses for normal value cells and repurpose proper value cells for unboxed words of known type 21:32:56 lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 21:32:59 london because I am planning an sbcl party/workshop 21:33:07 (to save a tag) 21:33:23 well, in that case it should be sbcl 2.0 :) 21:33:26 Ooh. And that gives me a few months to try and get the arm-port working... 21:33:57 nyef: you need to make an sbcl-os screencast, by the way! 21:34:04 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:08 (And is that really a race condition, because it definately looks like one, and shouldn't be impossible to trigger...) 21:34:24 nikodemus: Umm... -what-? 21:35:01 you have sbcl-os, you make a screencast, ???, profit and gain fans 21:35:02 You realize that there's no input drivers for sbcl-os, thus easily rendering it a toy, right? 21:35:08 i do :) 21:35:13 it's still cool 21:35:22 cool things deserve screencasts 21:35:27 I suppose it is. 21:35:36 nikodemus: When does stack-allocating lambdas result in most benefit? 21:35:59 whe you are gc bound 21:36:07 when, even 21:36:23 (or allocation bound) 21:36:28 I just wonder, because it's not convenient... (the dynamic-extent (lambda ...)) won't work, obviously. 21:36:54 yes, right now bare lambdas cannot be stack allocated by sbcl at all 21:37:19 you need to do eg. (flet ((foo ...)) (declare (dynamic-extent #'foo)) ...) 21:37:36 what's the context here? 21:38:15 -!- md1 [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:38:39 oh noes, not another directory regression 21:38:45 *nikodemus* fixes 21:38:56 None really, just general advise. anonymous function are very often dynamic-extent, when passing to foo-if etc. for instance 21:39:32 right, or mapping functions 21:39:40 allegro almost always stack-allocates functions 21:40:05 or at least it reports that some function was stack-allocated; didn't bother to check what exactly 21:40:05 right, which is why https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/383078 21:40:15 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-16-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:40:37 unless the function escapes sbcl actually stack allocates closures quietly 21:41:47 good sbcl! 21:42:28 or rather, the compiler tends to inline the whole local function 21:42:47 i'm not explaining this right 21:42:54 -!- yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:44:29 when you have high enough speed and low space optimization settings, standard HOFs tend to be inlined, and there's no need to pass functions around anymore; the code is executed in-line for lambdas, and a regular call directly to the right function made otherwise. 21:44:39 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:05 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@227.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:46:14 how to get rid of this note: 21:46:18 doing float to pointer coercion (cost 13) to "" 21:46:31 don't return floats. 21:47:13 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-234.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:47:17 nikodemus pasted "no heap allocation here" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82248 21:48:10 pkhuong: i don't understand, but then what to return? 21:48:20 pkhuong: I wonder whether the alternative strategy (of having specialized versions of hofs, more likely to stay in cache, and passing functions) might be better in some cases 21:48:25 or define the function as a local function, or inline it (in the latter case you will get the note for the definition, but the coercion need not happen for inline uses) 21:48:50 Krystof: probably. 21:49:19 the function is here http://paste.lisp.org/display/82249 21:49:39 can someone help me get rid of the last note in 82249? 21:50:36 leo2007: you can't get rid of that note 21:51:06 any suggestion on how to improve the speed further? 21:51:23 the algorithm is much simpler than sbcl's random and it is still slower 21:53:16 leo2007: At a certain point you just give up and lay out the assembler code you need to get the result you want. 21:53:23 Or give up in another way. 21:54:03 nyef: ;) 21:55:39 nyef: using the array trick improves the speed by 40% 21:59:16 And did you change it to be make-array 1 instead of make-arary nil ? 21:59:22 (With corresponding changes to aref) 21:59:46 -!- saba_ [n=saba@212.112.40.42] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:00:20 Oh, and for the record, it -is- cheaper to store the value unboxed and only box for the return value, simply because you're not paying the cost of unboxing the value when you read it from the closure. 22:01:04 oh, right 22:01:47 Yeah, sometimes the cost isn't the memory allocation, nor the garbage collection, sometimes the cost is the continuous boxing and unboxing. 22:02:01 And checking to see if it's a bignum or a fixnum, and so on. 22:02:10 dan` [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:18 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:40 leo2007: inline it -- http://paste.lisp.org/display/82249#1 22:04:01 -!- dan` [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has left #lisp 22:04:22 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:04:31 So, I find myself wondering if there's a construct to lexically enable a backend subfeature... 22:05:09 (I'd like this multiply to be compiled with :pentium4, and this other one here in the same function not to be...) 22:06:14 compiler-let :-) 22:06:24 not really 22:07:32 but which reminds me 22:07:51 did i tell of my evil plan to implement compiler-let as a regular macro? 22:08:06 (so code-walkers don't have to know about it) 22:09:22 I can't even remember what compiler-let actually does 22:09:46 (defmacro compiler-let (binds &body body &environment env) (progv (binding-vars binds) (binding-vals binds) (precompile body env)) 22:11:05 where PRECOMPILE would expand all macros and compiler-macros in situ in the body 22:11:20 How can I find out the contents of a built-in macro (like defun)? 22:11:23 -!- plage [n=user@118.68.32.211] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:11:25 nikodemus: thanks. 22:11:50 antoszka: M-. or macroexpand, depending on what you mean 22:12:03 antoszka: Typically, DESCRIBE will tell you what file to find the source in. Or if you have everything set up right with slime, M-. should take you right to the definition. 22:12:06 s/macroexpand/M-RET/ 22:12:20 Macroexpansion will tell you what a particular DEFUN ends up as. 22:12:47 I tried (macroexpand 'defun) but that just returns DEFUN, NIL 22:13:20 Right, defun isn't a symbol-macro. 22:13:32 And macroexpanding a bare symbol only does something for symbol-macros. 22:13:52 antoszka: (macroexpand-1 '(defun foo (bar baz) (quux))) 22:13:59 Try (macroexpand '(defun foo ())) or similar? 22:14:16 -!- ruediger_ [n=ruediger@62-47-151-23.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:15:24 Thx. 22:15:42 Will also look in the source file described by (describe ...). 22:18:10 Looks like there are some extremely hairy internals involved and I was expecting to find something like (setf (symbol-function 'foo) bar...) :) 22:18:26 Will get back to it in five years time (or not yet). 22:19:24 Mmm... There turns out to be two or three additional considerations that make a bare (setf symbol-function) call insufficient. One of them is setf-function naming. 22:19:47 -!- Blkt [n=Blkt@net-93-146-155-178.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:20:07 Blkt [n=Blkt@net-93-146-155-178.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 22:20:19 nikodemus: doesn't that bind the variables to the forms, not the values 22:20:39 (compiler-let ((*foo* (+ 3 4))) ...) 22:20:43 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-182-79.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:21:06 nyef: Don't know what that is. 22:21:29 anyway 22:21:33 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:22:51 antoszka: One of the ways that SETF works is that it can check for the existance of a function named (SETF FOO), for some place named FOO. As (SETF FOO) is a list and not a symbol, DEFUN can't just use (setf (symbol-function '(setf foo)) ...). 22:22:51 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:23:14 nyef: Will digest that, thanks :) 22:23:16 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 22:23:29 (Yes, defun could check for this case specially and do something else with it, but there are still other considerations.) 22:26:06 -!- joast1 [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:28:00 oops, missed the EVALs there -- but the basic idea remains 22:28:02 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6D902.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 22:28:15 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 22:30:11 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-232.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:31:01 Now, where did I see an EVAL recentlyish that I couldn't get rid of? 22:31:18 (Or, more accurately, that getting rid of was more trouble than it was worth.) 22:31:40 Oh well. 22:32:49 -!- milanj- [n=milan@77.46.210.81] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:35:00 -!- udzinari [n=udzinari@94-43-70-11.dsl.utg.ge] has quit [] 22:39:17 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-129-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:40:23 plage [n=user@118.68.32.211] has joined #lisp 22:40:27 Good morning. 22:43:28 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-24-157.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:47:34 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:51:19 -!- asksol [n=ask@062016247101.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:52:27 How to translate c = (t>>32); (C lanague) into cl? 22:53:02 (ash t -32) 22:54:05 stassats: thanks 22:55:13 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-60-163.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:59:06 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:06:52 MDXRL [n=MDXRL@c-75-66-15-74.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:35 ygip [i=foobar@gateway.blegkilde.dk] has joined #lisp 23:09:12 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:09:30 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-64-159.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:11:21 Maybe this is a dumb question, but are there any serious plans about doing a new ANSI CL standard that would include various semi-standard packages that have sprung in the community? Some sockets stuff, series and the like? 23:11:57 nothing what i'd call serious 23:12:21 -!- carbocalm [n=user@75-119-234-173.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 23:13:02 I presume this would require lots of money and hence some company/govt backing which probably was easier at the time the current ANSI standard was actually made. 23:14:28 antoszka: keep in mind that it would be much more practical and probably almost as effective to skip the whole ANSI bit and just agree on a standard. 23:14:51 what's "unsigned long long t, a=18782LL;" (C) in CL? 23:14:58 Adlai [n=adlai@93-173-254-22.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 23:15:34 Ralith: Yeah, I'm not insisting on running it through ANSI or ISO, was rather curious whether there's a general agreement in the community (or not) on whether this would be worthwile or at all necessary. 23:15:35 (let ((a 18782)) ..) obviously 23:15:49 -!- MDXRL [n=MDXRL@c-75-66-15-74.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:16:05 I mean the corresponding type in CL for long long 23:16:31 what's long long? 64 bit? 23:16:49 Unfortunately I don't know 23:17:02 (unsigned-byte 64) then, or whatever bits it is 23:18:06 ok 23:19:32 that seems correct. Thank you stassats 23:20:00 stassats: signed-byte actually, no? 23:20:40 luis: the original question was about unsigned long long 23:20:43 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:45 ah, nevermind. Missed the context. 23:21:17 leo2007: your sbcl is 64 bit? 23:22:02 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-064-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:22:33 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:24:12 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 23:26:29 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F940.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:29:04 i have a hash table i can compute at compile time. i currently use a macro which return the hash table and do (defvar *precomputed-stuff* (make-table)). is this ok? it feels a bit odd.. 23:30:00 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:30:28 thomas001, do you use eval-when? 23:30:49 no i currently do (macrolet (...) (defvar ...)) 23:30:55 mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068210006.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:13 sreeram [n=sreeram@122.174.65.3] has joined #lisp 23:31:20 antoszka: a complementary formal standard for things like threading and various types of I/O would be nice, I think, but it might be most successful if proposed to, as I said, complement the ANSI standard rather than supersede it, since the ANSI standard is, iirc, intended to standardize the *language* rather than stuff like interaction, and not terribly outdated in that respect. 23:31:38 Right. 23:36:25 -!- [Blay] [n=blaay@BSN-142-12-252.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:37:39 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:44 thomas001: why not eval-when? 23:42:11 luis, i don't know how 23:42:33 it sounds like you should be using that, if you want to do some EVALuation WHEN you are compiling. 23:43:05 put an (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) ...) around the necessary code 23:43:15 can you dump hash table into fasls? 23:44:26 stassats: It is certainly possible to do so, at worst with a load-time-value that reconstructs an equivalent table. 23:44:53 Adlai, but when i do (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (defvar *precomputed* (stuff))) *precomputed* won't be available when i load the fasl into a fresh image,will it? 23:45:21 Ah. 3.2.4.2.2 explicitly mentions hash-tables. 23:45:22 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 23:45:34 -!- sreeram_ [n=sreeram@122.174.65.109] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:45:41 clhs 3.2.4.2.2 23:45:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_bdbb.htm 23:46:01 thomas001: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) ...) 23:46:12 that would work 23:46:17 although maybe you want a load-time-value? 23:46:58 Adlai: probably not. 23:47:05 hmm yes,i did not want to do the computation upon load time 23:47:11 -!- cky [n=cky@cpe-024-211-249-162.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Restarting X server...."] 23:47:35 I've never used load-time-value, so I can't really give advice here... 23:47:39 -!- jthing [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:48:02 jthing [n=jthing@165.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 23:48:32 antoszka: the cltl3 effort is trying to codify existing community standards... we'd like to think we're serious about it too :) 23:48:35 Heh. I've used load-time-value to pick up a direct reference to an array in static-space. Fun. 23:49:04 Adlai, i did not know load-time-value exists,so thank you :) 23:49:24 chls load-time-value 23:49:29 clhs load-time-value 23:49:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_ld_tim.htm 23:49:31 drewc: is the mailing list the main meeting spot of cltl3? 23:49:38 thomas001, take a look there 23:49:43 it has some examples of how to use it. 23:49:48 drewc: or does the effort have a webpage/wiki or something? 23:49:53 that'll tell you whether it's appropriate :) 23:50:12 thx again :) 23:50:20 drewc: didn't know about cltl3 at all, btw. :) 23:50:34 no problem, glad to be of help even if I don't know that much about it myself... 23:51:45 gn all 23:51:59 -!- Blkt [n=Blkt@net-93-146-155-178.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit ["(cons 'java 'sucks)"] 23:52:54 thomas001: perhaps I misunderstood your goal but I don't load-time-value is what you're looking for. 23:53:26 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:38 luis pasted "for thomas001" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82258 23:53:41 luis, i just want to precompute the hash table at compile time and have the precomputed result stored in the compiled file 23:54:46 thomas001, I don't think load-time-value does that 23:54:57 Adlai, i read the page and think the same 23:55:23 Build the table in a #.(let ((table (make-hash-table ...))) ...)? 23:55:36 maybe, you want to wrap your computation in an eval-when :compile-toplevel, and defvar the result 23:55:52 let me check if that does what you want. 23:56:16 nyef, hmm nice 23:56:56 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:57:29 -!- lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:57:34 udzinari [n=udzinari@94-43-70-11.dsl.utg.ge] has joined #lisp 23:58:49 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 23:59:22 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:53 Adlai: see what I pasted