00:02:00 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:02:10 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 00:03:34 -!- MixMix [n=mixmix55@86-41-211-54-dynamic.b-ras1.lmk.limerick.eircom.net] has quit [] 00:05:50 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-187.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:06:07 -!- dysinger [n=tim@71.20.231.3] has quit [] 00:07:16 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:07:24 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 00:08:10 Is there any way to import symbols from a package with names that I choose? 00:08:37 dihymo [n=rares@208.79.90.74] has joined #lisp 00:08:41 For example if I want to import cxml:parse into 'parse-xml 00:09:01 how do i use mod_lisp on apache 00:09:29 Adlai: this is not possible, the name of a symbol is essential to its identity. 00:09:33 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:09:57 well, it's possible, with something like the following: 00:10:13 Adlai: however, you can implement indirections. For functions (setf (symbol-function 'my-symbol) (symbol-function 'other-package:other-symbol)) 00:10:20 yeah 00:10:23 that's what I was about to type 00:10:24 although 00:10:26 Adlai: for variables: use define-symbol-macro. 00:10:34 oh good idea 00:11:04 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:11:19 I was about to wrap calls in an (aif (symbol-function other-packages-symbol) (setf (symbol-function my-new-symbol it)) 00:11:25 something like that 00:11:36 mariorz [n=mariorz@li10-58.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:41 pjb, thx for reminding me about sym-macs. 00:11:47 -!- mariorz [n=mariorz@li10-58.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 00:12:31 well, i'm starting to think of a possible addition to the defpackage macro 00:12:41 Good night! 00:12:44 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:12:49 hah 00:12:59 no, i'm just thinking that :import-as should be available 00:13:05 and could expand into some symbol-macro stuff 00:13:24 symbol-macros don't work for functions. 00:13:34 why not? 00:13:57 it doesn't check for symbol macros on a symbol used in the function position? 00:15:03 Indeed. 00:15:32 what's the reason for that? 00:16:12 That's the rule for the evaluation of an application in CL. Mostly I'd guess to let the CL compiler generate efficient code. 00:17:09 I guess I'll be using something like (setf (symbol-function ... 00:17:15 thx anyways. 00:17:54 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:27:08 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-202-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:30:42 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:33 -!- ruediger_ [n=ruediger@62-47-140-91.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:38:52 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:39:32 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:41:09 (setf fdefinition). 00:41:30 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.217.68] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:42:08 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E701.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:45:12 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:45:43 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-86-240.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:46:17 -!- noone [n=no@adsl227-136.kln.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:49:25 -!- rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-8e275a456cae6470] has quit [] 00:55:58 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:53 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:51 plage [n=user@118.68.34.65] has joined #lisp 00:59:54 Good morning 01:02:51 jdelgado [n=jdelgado@245.Red-81-33-110.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:52 -!- gigamonkey` [n=user@adsl-99-17-206-77.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:03:54 -!- jdelgado [n=jdelgado@245.Red-81-33-110.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 01:04:16 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-59166837432855ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:04:24 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 01:04:28 -!- pragma_ is now known as litb 01:04:39 -!- litb is now known as pragma_ 01:06:07 elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-160-45.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:09:11 -!- anekos is now known as A_anekos 01:10:29 -!- Lectus [n=Frederic@189.105.10.45] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:11:05 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:36 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:14:38 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:18:03 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:20:37 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:20:45 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-37.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:19 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:21:53 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:21:55 -!- willb [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:22:48 willb [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:25:26 If I have a clim presentation of some data (say: an array or a list), and I present it, and afterwards, I some calculation changes the data (destructively), is the presentation automatically updated, or should I call present again? 01:27:36 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.116.25.191] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:27:44 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.145.74] has joined #lisp 01:31:32 Sikander: The presentation contains a reference to the Lisp object. If you destructively modify the object, those modifications will be visible because the reference stays the same. 01:32:02 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 01:32:17 plage: ok, but if the presentation is graphical, does the graphic automatically update, or do I need to call a refresh somewhere? 01:32:43 ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:33:07 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:33:17 Sikander: You need to redisplay the object in that case. However, if you are displaying the object each time around the command loop, that should be automatic. 01:33:42 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:34:11 plage: Ok, and if I change a list by growing it, and the presentation is on the list, it will work because the presentation has a reference to the head, right? 01:34:38 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:45 It should, yeah 01:34:50 Sikander: Yes, unless you add to the beginning of the list. 01:34:53 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.148.24] has joined #lisp 01:35:01 plage: sure, that makes complete sense. Thanks 01:35:09 No problem. 01:37:19 Bigshot_ [n=BIG_SHOT@CPE002129abc864-CM001ac35cd4d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:01 what to do when error comes up in slime and open up a window which gives choices between 0-5 and entering any of which i.e. 0-5 does not work 01:38:28 i get ";pipelined requested 01:38:50 how to close that window? 01:39:51 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 01:40:09 plage` [n=user@118.68.34.65] has joined #lisp 01:40:21 -!- plage [n=user@118.68.34.65] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:40:25 -!- plage` is now known as plage 01:40:36 or nobody know wtf i am talking about? 01:41:03 maybe i'll just close it 01:41:23 but i need some keyboard command to do that :D 01:41:41 ctrl-c? 01:41:43 :p 01:42:47 why is it common for clisp to hang up? 01:42:49 -!- willb [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:43:07 whenever there is invalid something done *bAM* clisp hangs 01:43:26 no thread, and it doesn't always respond to C-c on windows. 01:43:31 willb [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:43:52 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:44:40 no thread? 01:45:07 there's no multithreading in clisp? 01:45:15 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-227-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 01:45:30 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:23 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:50:11 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-97-91.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:02 nope; if you want threads try sbcl or ccl 01:51:13 or cmucl, for that retro feel :) 01:52:01 not steampunk? 01:52:38 oh, windows? ccl is about the only free option then 01:52:58 or clozure 01:53:07 i think (?) 01:54:09 -!- plage [n=user@118.68.34.65] has left #lisp 01:55:41 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:09 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.148.24] has quit [Success] 01:57:31 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 01:58:15 clisp must be slower than 01:59:01 Bigshot_: consult the *inferior-lisp* window to see if there was a communication error 01:59:08 s/window/buffer 01:59:17 chessguy_ [n=chessguy@pool-173-79-200-142.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:34 fiveop_ [n=fiveop@pD9E6CD8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:45 -!- xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has left #lisp 02:02:04 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:05:51 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:06:14 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:06:27 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:06:43 kpreid: what's the command to compete ))))) in slime? 02:06:49 danlei [n=user@pD9E2CC3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:59 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 02:06:59 sorry man but gotta ask ^^ 02:07:00 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 02:07:00 I don't know, I prefer to type them in pairs myself 02:07:22 pkhuong: might know 02:07:27 C-c C-] 02:07:42 I never type closing parentheses 02:07:48 nice 02:08:23 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:09:19 -!- Guthur [n=Michael@host81-132-8-72.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Computer says no"] 02:09:55 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:14:34 laynor [n=laynor@93.107.2.95] has joined #lisp 02:16:57 I just installed slime, long time since I last used CL, I see the nice interactive repl isn't loaded by default. how do I load it? 02:16:59 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6CFF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 02:17:25 -!- fiveop_ [n=fiveop@pD9E6CD8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 02:17:49 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:17:50 laynor: (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) in your .emacs should do the trick 02:17:53 When you call `slime-setup' in your .emacs file, laynor, use (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)), or if you want just the REPL and nothing else fancy, (slime-setup '(slime-repl)). 02:18:26 danlei, Riastradh thank you :) 02:19:39 Can I do destructuring within a &rest parameter on a macro? 02:19:59 in other words 02:20:11 I currently have a macro whose arglist is 02:20:19 (name &optional init-value) 02:20:55 it's a wrapper for two defuns that interact with a value 02:21:02 I'd like to pluralize the macro 02:21:11 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:22:09 dysinger [n=tim@71.20.231.3] has joined #lisp 02:22:13 Actually, of course I can't. 02:22:27 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:22:53 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:23:04 I'll have to use (loop for (name &optional init-value) on names-and-values do (stuff)) 02:26:09 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:11 brown```` [n=user@72.14.228.129] has joined #lisp 02:26:15 -!- willb [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:29:57 nimalan [n=nimalan@rez-ac1-wan.GW.McGill.CA] has joined #lisp 02:31:52 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:49 -!- DepthSort [n=Jonny@69-165-129-226.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:34:11 hi i am trying to use sldb.. if i have my emacs point on a backtrace at a function with parameter called 'args', I should just be able to hit 'd' and type in 'args' and see the value of the variable args in that stack frame, right? i'm instead getting 'The variable ARGS is unbound.' 02:34:32 what is the correct way of seeing what the value of a variable is in sldb? I'm using aquamacs and sbcl 02:36:51 first, compile with (debug 2) or (debug 3). Bindings may be optimised away. 02:39:42 another slime question 02:39:48 i've defined a macro 02:39:56 which takes only one arg, a &rest 02:40:35 i'm trying to get my call indented as 02:40:35 (def-request-params 02:40:35 blah 02:40:35 blah 02:40:35 blah) 02:41:02 but instead, Slime is indenting the first two arguments by more than it indents the rest of the call 02:41:13 maybe you should use &body instead 02:41:53 that fixes it. 02:41:59 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [] 02:42:16 doesn't make sense though, because &rest implies (to me) a bunch of equally-valued args 02:42:22 shouldn't slime indent them equally as well? 02:42:31 pkhuong: oh i see.. thanks 02:42:33 (valued used subjectively in the above comment) 02:42:36 -!- brown``` [n=user@72.14.228.89] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:42:43 (in the eye of the programmer){ 02:47:28 Adlai: no, &body implies an implicit progn-like indentation. 02:47:35 well, you can use &rest and &body in the same macro, and what you have there is ... a body, I'd say. for example: (defmacro frob ((&rest args) &body body) ... 02:47:36 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:48:31 peterwang [n=user@61.148.100.42] has joined #lisp 02:48:54 how can i specify proclamations to an asdf compile-op? 02:49:15 im trying to use the :proclamations keyword argument.. it's not being recognized 02:49:20 -!- chessguy_ [n=chessguy@pool-173-79-200-142.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:49:34 well, my frob takes two types of arguments into the &rest/&body 02:49:43 either just a name 02:49:50 or a list of a name, and initial value 02:50:26 it seems to me as though a &rest is appropriate here 02:50:35 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:51:11 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:54:17 is there a clear command for clisp? 02:54:48 don't know if I can help you there. I stick with &rest for arguments and usually I give those a layer of parens, &body for the body. but its 04:53 over here, maybe I'm not understanding your problem right :) 02:55:08 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:14 heh, it's almost 6 here, i'm probably not either... 02:56:21 -!- Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-47-52.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 02:56:48 solved it.. say asdf:operate instead of asdf:oos X-( 02:58:02 um 02:58:15 can I a) close over a dynamic binding, and 02:58:23 b) assign to a dynamic binding as a loop variable? 03:01:31 (defparameter *x* 1) (let ((*x* 2)) (defun get-*x* () *x*)), (get-*x*) -> 1 03:02:36 Can I do the same with (declare (special *x*)) inside my function? 03:03:05 yes, but then the variable is not proclaimed special globally 03:03:09 -!- brown```` [n=user@72.14.228.129] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:03:15 i don't really want that 03:03:21 it's just being used within one loop, in a macro 03:07:09 the difference to lexical closures is, that, when you're using specials the binding will be looked up dynamically. in other words: what binding is used depends /where/ you call the function. if you close over a lexical variable, the closure will keep the value as it was where the function was defined. 03:07:30 danlei, that's what I want. 03:07:57 that won't work with specials/dynamic bindings 03:08:15 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:05 what do you mean? 03:09:35 well, if you want a lexical closure, you can't have it with specials 03:09:51 I guess it's not a closure then 03:10:08 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-197-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:12 But I want a local function (flet) that looks up a variable dynamically 03:10:22 dynamic closure? 03:10:44 and the place where i'm calling it is within the body of a loop. 03:10:52 the dynamic variable changes each time 03:11:13 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:11:14 there were dynamic closures in other lisps, afaik 03:11:28 You can create a lexical closure over some value of a dynamic variable and reinstate it. 03:11:36 (let ((x *x*)) (lambda () (let ((*x* x)) ...))) 03:12:58 Riastradh, won't x just refer to the value of *x* at the time the let was evaluated? 03:13:17 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:13:17 yes, it will 03:13:18 Yes. 03:13:23 hm 03:13:35 I think I'm just gonna pass this variable as an arg to the function... 03:13:44 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:52 well, i have something that works now... 03:16:19 it's a nuisance that i have to pass this value each time, when i know where to look to get it. argh. 03:16:56 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:18:15 I'm still not sure, if I understand the problem. Specials are usually used for exactly that purpose ... sparing you the extra argument. but then, as I said, I'm pretty tired :) 03:19:49 I don't want a global special though. 03:20:04 I want a local dynamic variable 03:20:20 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:20:53 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 03:20:57 can you give me a little example? 03:21:34 or, why don't you want a global special, in the first place? 03:21:36 there is no such thing. You can have a variable that's dynamic within the lexical scope of multiple declarations, but a local dynamic variable doesn't make sense in common lisp. 03:21:59 the first of what pkhuong said is what i want 03:22:23 the first form in my macro is (declare (special name)) 03:22:42 next, I have a local function, which uses the value of 'name 03:23:00 within the scope of the flet, i have a loop, which sets the value of name in each iteration 03:23:14 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:23:37 Adlai: how exactly are you mixing macros and functions? 03:23:51 ok, I have one big macro here 03:24:00 within it is the declaration 03:24:03 and the flet 03:24:28 the flet contains a `(progn ,@(loop )) 03:24:58 the flet introduces a function which accesses a binding declared special by the declaration 03:25:17 the loop code should be altering this binding 03:25:35 but it seems to be setting the local/lexical binding 03:25:44 why don't you paste the code and how it fails to work? 03:28:35 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:29:55 Adlai pasted "dynamic vars and local functions" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82112 03:30:10 (let ((x 1)) (declare (special x)) (let ((x 2)) (list x (locally (declare (special x)) x)))) 03:30:32 might help in understanding ... 03:32:20 danlei, I'm confused by your example 03:32:39 the first declaration makes the dynamic binding of x be 1? 03:34:16 in the first let, x is dynamic set to 1, in the second let, the /lexical/ value of x is 2, then, by declaring x locally special, the dynamic binding is referred. you have to have multiple lexical declarations, if a variable is not globally proclaimed special ... 03:34:55 what if I wrap the flet in a locally? 03:35:00 clhs special 03:35:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_specia.htm 03:35:01 A special declaration does not affect inner bindings of a var; the inner bindings implicitly shadow a special declaration and must be explicitly re-declared to be special. special declarations never apply to function bindings. 03:38:15 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:49 how can I make the inner bindings created by loop's 'for keyword be dynamic? 03:40:15 any way other than a global defvar? 03:40:48 what an idiot i am 03:40:50 pass the right value 03:41:04 i can make the local function a local macro 03:41:13 the only arg i'm passing it is a string, known at read-time 03:41:14 wtf for? 03:41:39 b/c it needs to access some context at the place where it's being called 03:41:50 the arguments it operates on are known at read-time 03:42:05 you're not doing anything to the binding in your local function. 03:42:15 what do you mean? 03:42:33 just use a function with an additional argument. Simple, works. 03:43:22 macro works too, and I'd say it's cleaner. 03:43:49 definitely not cleaner. 03:43:52 why not? 03:43:53 I'd go with pkhuong's proposal 03:44:08 Adlai: because you're using a macro when it could be a function. 03:44:25 Wank all you want, but don't go around pretending it's clean. 03:44:53 i'm really confused about how to make this a function without doubling the size of this code with declarations 03:45:08 or passing the extra argument, which is just kinda ugly 03:45:26 i guess if a function is fundamentally cleaner than a macro, i should do the latter 03:45:27 In which case I'd say your sense of esthetic is distorted. 03:45:55 why? it's an argument which the function could fetch for itself 03:47:18 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 03:47:27 Simple straightforward and working is beautiful code. 03:47:30 actually, i've got a cleaner solution 03:47:39 i'll just rip out the local function 03:47:50 it's a pretty general functionality anyways, which i'll probably want as a utility 03:48:10 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:48:40 i won't feel so bad passing all the args if it's a utility... 03:49:09 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-26.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 03:49:44 Drakeson` [n=user@69-165-133-213.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:52:04 alright, it works nicely. 03:52:11 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 03:52:21 pkhuong, can you explain to me why I should avoid macros like that? 03:52:37 because you don't need the power of macros. 03:52:59 Simplest thing that works. 03:53:03 ok 03:53:10 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:53:12 i'll try and think of it that way in the future :-/ 03:53:23 evening 03:53:39 morning over here 04:04:20 -!- Drakeson [n=user@206-248-177-70.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:05:05 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:08:32 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 04:08:46 -!- Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:09:12 Holcxjo [n=holly@ronaldann.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 04:11:12 mrdodge [n=user@cm110.sigma74.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:13:26 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:22 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 04:24:19 does anyone know F# is coming out in 2010? 04:25:12 alan`` [n=alan@pcd335056.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 04:25:22 analytix [n=andy@adsl-35-171-208.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:59 admirable. Perhaps Ellen DeGeneres will interview it. 04:28:01 lawl 04:28:13 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:28:13 she's lesbian 04:32:52 -!- alan`` [n=alan@pcd335056.netvigator.com] has left #lisp 04:32:55 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:33:05 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-37.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:21 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-41-17.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:38:52 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:43:29 -!- dialtone_ [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit ["leaving"] 04:43:42 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-37.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:43 willb2 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:44:33 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:45:24 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:56:50 drdo [n=psykon@93.102.72.46.rev.optimus.pt] has joined #lisp 04:58:30 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:33 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:59:21 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:00:11 How can I use format to print out a complex item without indentation? 05:00:23 it's making things be 30 lines long, with 1 or 2 terms mashed up to the right side 05:00:49 Phoodus, can you give an example? 05:01:19 If you're just looking for information about format directives, though, you should probably consult the hyperspec. 05:01:31 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:01:44 I didnt' see anything in the ~a ~s etc configuratino 05:01:49 -!- rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:01:49 from clhs 05:02:00 rey_ [n=ikke@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 05:02:14 ah, ok, I think I see what your problem is. 05:02:24 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 05:02:25 snippet from inside a deep list object: 05:02:25 " :VALUE #(131" 05:02:25 " 103" 05:02:25 " 100" 05:02:25 " 0" 05:02:26 " 12" 05:02:26 Try using pprint instead of format. 05:02:48 syntax is the same as print, but it does "pretty" printing 05:02:50 I just want everything mashed left-right ignoring the arbitary width it wraps to 05:02:59 -!- desu [i=desu@unaffiliated/desu] has quit ["Read Error: Connection reset by peer pressure"] 05:03:07 I want to _disable_ pretty printing, if that's what's causing the indentation 05:03:10 no 05:03:20 the indentation is set by a few global variables, which you can control 05:03:29 evaluate the following: 05:03:35 (setf *print-right-margin* NIL) 05:03:48 -!- elliotstern [n=chatzill@cpe-67-240-160-45.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:03:50 ah, k 05:03:51 after evaluating that, there will be no "wrapping" like it's giving you right now 05:03:58 then (format nil) should not have any linewraps then? 05:03:59 desu [n=desu@unaffiliated/desu] has joined #lisp 05:04:05 well 05:04:08 cool, I'll try that in a dynamic closure 05:04:14 well 05:04:16 i'm not sure 05:04:21 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-97-91.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 05:04:46 <_3b> you could just bind *print-pretty* to nil if you want no pretty printing 05:08:59 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["off"] 05:10:32 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:30 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-200-5-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:15:04 borism [n=boris@195-50-200-253-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 05:15:40 hmm, a (let ((*print-right-margin* nil)) ...) didn't seem to do it 05:17:29 I still get the heavily indented, 1 number per line, output 05:18:47 same with *pretty-print* 05:19:30 -!- wol__ [n=wol@c-24-6-239-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:23:20 <_3b> Phoodus: *print-pretty*, not *pretty-print* 05:24:16 the pretty printer is terribly misnamed 05:24:28 (as Phoodus has discovered) 05:24:39 oh, whoops 05:25:27 well, with *print-pretty* it indents much futher to the right, but still clusters up in long lines of small terms clinging to the right side 05:27:03 this is typically (format t "~a... in the guts that I'm calling 05:27:05 not format nil 05:36:18 -!- _dima [i=dima@torch.blackened.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:39:27 _dima [i=dima@torch.blackened.com] has joined #lisp 05:41:23 -!- peterwang [n=user@61.148.100.42] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:41:46 -!- jao [n=jao@249.Red-88-18-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:41:52 -!- george_ [n=george@189.107.167.96] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:42:13 peterwang [n=user@61.148.100.42] has joined #lisp 05:42:45 -!- peterwang [n=user@61.148.100.42] has left #lisp 05:43:51 aja_ [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:19 george_ [n=george@189.107.167.96] has joined #lisp 05:47:39 aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has joined #lisp 05:52:03 -!- aja_ [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 05:56:21 I can't find anything else relevant 05:56:29 any other pointers for completely preventing linewrap? 05:56:54 <_3b> are you sure nothing resets *prin-pretty* in the middle? 05:57:03 nothing I wrote does so 05:57:16 and I never setf/setq dynamic variables anyway. I always use closures 06:00:18 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:01:01 gz` [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:01:53 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 06:02:15 Does anybody know how to use the #:dom package that comes with cxml? 06:02:24 it's giving me no end of trouble 06:02:39 how do I get the text from a certain xml attribute? 06:05:25 revertTS [n=revertTS@cv.utdallas.edu] has joined #lisp 06:06:52 -!- gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:07:51 ok, found it. 06:07:56 there's seriously no manual for this thing. 06:08:42 ever try writing a manual? takes ages. 06:09:05 lol 06:09:43 there's not even a summary, though. 06:10:02 the only documentation i could find on this package is four example lines from the cxml manual. 06:12:38 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 06:16:57 yeah. what a rip-off. 06:17:24 the xmls form is actually much more useful 06:17:31 I think I'm going to use that. 06:17:51 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:18:26 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:21 -!- analytix [n=andy@adsl-35-171-208.dab.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 06:19:28 is there a function that loads a file in one go instead of by line or by char? 06:19:49 many, but you have to write them 06:20:37 the idea is to take advantage of i/o optimizations to load the data as efficiently as possible, in chunks, instead of constantly asking 06:20:56 what is "load data"? 06:21:03 clhs read-sequence 06:21:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_seq.htm 06:21:22 plage [n=user@118.68.34.65] has joined #lisp 06:21:28 Good afternoon! 06:21:45 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 06:22:00 if it's sexprs in some file, LOAD will READ each toplevel file. Of course the reader has to look at each char to decide how to proceed 06:22:07 toplevel form, not file 06:22:09 *hefner* wonders what exotic locale plage greets us from today 06:22:19 Adlai: http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/dom.html says to see the DOM spec for details. what more do you need? 06:22:25 hey plage 06:23:25 slyrus, that doesn't tell me how I can navigate those objects with the functions in the dom package. 06:24:06 anyways, I'm not using DOM 06:24:26 too much of a pita to deal with all those objects 06:24:36 xmls just gives me nice sexps 06:24:37 Adlai: the dom spec gives you a pretty good idea of how to navigate the dom tree 06:24:50 have you looked at the functions in the dom package? 06:24:57 cxml-stp is very nice as well 06:25:17 what is that? 06:25:23 hefner: Ho Chi Minh City, a.k.a Sài Gòn 06:25:47 minion: tell Adlai wtf cxml-stp is where he can find the URL to google 06:25:48 Adlai: google: i agree - wtf cxml stp is where he can find the url 06:25:52 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 06:26:06 s/is/is or/ 06:26:46 plage: I had some awesome vietnamese food for lunch today, but unfortunately that's as close as I got to saigon... 06:27:19 slyrus: Hmm, yeah, that's not quite enough though is it? 06:27:28 is saigon a tourist-friendly place? 06:27:31 true :( but it was still good 06:27:33 *hefner* finally gets a passport 06:27:43 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@130.226.210.2] has joined #lisp 06:28:00 hefner: yeah, very nice. Not that many places to visit, but the inhabitants are nice. 06:28:05 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 06:28:37 slyrus, cxml-stp looks really nice, but it doesn't beat S-exps for me 06:29:16 hefner: I stay in a part of town where people rapidly recognize me and pretty much leave me alone. Further towards the tourist center, one is much more solicited. 06:29:24 also, I can forget that it's XML once it's in s-exp form... I can treat it like any hideously complicated list 06:29:51 hefner: Where are you planning to go first? 06:31:18 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:31:21 plage: I have some friends in Thailand, so I thought I'd visit there for a bit this summer 06:32:15 (and since my savings won't be worth anything in a few more years with all this central bank "stimulus", and there's nothing to invest them in, I'm tempted to travel around and burn them off while I can) 06:32:17 hefner: Sounds good. I have never been there, but my brother spends a few months every year there, and he is planning to buy a house. 06:32:40 Adlai: did you look at the cxml xmls-builder thing? 06:32:54 I'm not building XML 06:33:05 hefner: let me know if you plan to stop in Bordeaux sometime. 06:33:12 ASau [n=user@host119-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 06:33:28 slyrus: the app I'm working on sends data to a central server using HTTP POST requests, and receives data back as XML 06:34:51 Adlai: I'll take that as na o then, since that's not what the xmls-builder does 06:35:04 s/as na o/as a no/ 06:35:10 *slyrus* can't type tonight 06:35:35 slyrus: What do you mean, that's not what it does? 06:35:51 it transforms XML into an s-exp 06:36:00 right 06:36:23 i thought you meant building an xml document. never mind. 06:36:49 ah. nope, i guess i didn't explain well what I disliked about dom 06:37:28 I think dom would be good for building xml, because its structure would help/force you to produce accurate XML 06:37:33 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:38:10 I just need to grab some XML from a server and extract one or two bits of data. 06:39:21 how about using sax? 06:39:38 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.160.44] has joined #lisp 06:39:40 that way you don't have to cons up the whole document 06:40:47 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:41:18 mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:42:35 hello 06:46:32 hello mrSpec 06:50:16 morning 06:50:28 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 06:50:30 hello nikodemus 06:54:38 mega1 [n=mega@pool-00ddf.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:55:19 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:56:11 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable110.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:56:14 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable110.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:56:43 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest11360 07:00:15 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:01:54 sukaeto [i=1069@113.254.108.102] has joined #lisp 07:02:00 -!- sukaeto [i=1069@113.254.108.102] has left #lisp 07:03:07 sukaeto [i=1069@113.254.108.102] has joined #lisp 07:03:51 anyone here have experience working with CLISP's FFI? 07:07:44 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:07 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-12-162.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:08:45 hey I want to use read-sequence to load a text file in one go, so I need to know the file size to create the vector beforehand, what's the best way to do that? 07:10:53 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:11:46 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-5-135.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:12:17 clhs file-length 07:12:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_file_l.htm 07:12:21 good morning 07:12:25 hello mvilleneuve 07:12:47 damn.. was looking for word size 07:12:53 no wonder, thanks 07:15:37 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:15:44 -!- A_anekos is now known as anekos 07:16:02 -!- dialtone_ is now known as dialtone 07:19:24 alright, so, let's say you have a persistent application (let's say a webapp, for example) 07:19:47 You want to schedule something that affects the database for that app, so that it happens a day from now. 07:20:00 and you want to make sure it happens even if the lisp image goes down. 07:21:45 roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:58 asksol [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 07:22:13 what can you do in that case? is the only real option to just save the text version of the s-exp in the event, and just eval it later? 07:22:24 use cron? 07:22:40 well, this would be within a lisp app 07:22:55 not really something I think I could fall back to unix for :\ 07:23:18 if the app can go down without coming back up again, you can't rely on the app 07:23:44 oh, this effect is supposed to happen within the app :) 07:23:50 if it will come back up again, you can just use your normal persistence mechanism 07:24:27 yeah, but the question is how to persist the code itself. 07:24:34 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:24:39 _arbitrary_ code? 07:25:00 in a perfect world, I'd be able to toss lambdas in there, sure. 07:25:21 but it sounds like that's not very likely to happen <_< 07:25:33 saving the sexp sounds like the easiest thing, then 07:25:59 or sticking the even code into a file to be loaded at time, or whatever 07:26:05 event, even 07:26:15 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@ip98-185-236-17.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:26:29 alright, thanks :) 07:26:33 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-57-80.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:26:50 but needing to schedule arbitrary code sounds a bit strange -- not that i understand webapps, so... 07:27:12 it's not for a webapp, but the domain seems to be similar. 07:27:17 it's for a MUD 07:27:26 ah 07:28:11 in most cases i would try to come up with an event spec: (:event