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Tricky... 01:19:21 tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:33 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:24 -!- xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:33:15 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:33:50 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087FE90.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:34:12 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:48 -!- pavitra [n=benjamin@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:40:09 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-7.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:41:19 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:37 (A-B)*1000/ITUPS? 01:42:21 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:45:06 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:51:06 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:04 moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 01:52:21 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 01:52:51 S11001001: yeah. 01:57:27 -!- kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:58:02 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:59:29 speps [n=speps@151.66.67.231] has joined #lisp 02:01:02 hey, any good resources for someone wanting to learn lisp? 02:01:08 coming from a python/Cish backround 02:01:30 michaelw: tell simplechat about pcl 02:01:36 tfu 02:01:44 minion: tell simplechat about pcl 02:01:45 simplechat: direct your attention towards pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 02:01:56 cool :) 02:02:02 lack of sleep & tab completion don't go well together 02:02:10 nope :) 02:02:11 thanks p_l 02:02:16 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:02:31 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:02:58 simplechat: the book is specially written for people who had previous programming experience 02:03:12 and on ubuntu, what would be the easiest way to get a usable version of lisp running? 02:03:18 p_l, cool 02:03:22 p_l: I finished writing those OpenAL bindings. 02:03:31 they -should- be usable, but I haven't fully tested them yet. 02:04:02 simplechat: get sbcl, emacs, then install clbuild and use it to get rest of the code (possibly making it recompile a local build of SBCL) 02:04:17 simplechat: debian packages are rather bad quality in that manner, it seems 02:04:21 p_l, i'm sorry i don't quite understand 02:04:30 minion: tell simplechat about clbuild 02:04:31 simplechat: please see clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 02:04:40 or just get CLISP 02:04:41 ah, ok 02:04:48 Phoodus, clisp package? 02:04:48 Phoodus: well, that too 02:04:51 (non-threaded, bytecode Lispt hat works everywhere) 02:05:37 I belive it's got a debian package that works 02:05:57 -!- speps [n=speps@151.66.67.231] has left #lisp 02:06:02 forget clisp 02:06:05 use ccl :) 02:06:08 or sbcl 02:06:13 whats the difference? 02:06:16 clisp is slow 02:06:19 extremely slow. 02:06:23 painfully so 02:06:23 not quite 02:06:33 clisp is fine 02:06:56 yeah, we use clisp on windows, since it's the only thing besides Allegro that's actually worked for us :-P 02:07:11 simplechat: clisp will work, but for anything more advanced, SBCL or CCL (I recommend SBCL unless you have Mac or windows) 02:07:22 clisp has no threads, it's slow, its clos isn't very nice. It's okay for trivial stuff or as a command-line calculator. 02:07:43 simplechat: As you see, many different opinions :D 02:07:50 minion, tell me about SBCL 02:07:50 simplechat: please look at SBCL: Steel Bank Common Lisp is an open source / free software Common Lisp implementation. http://www.cliki.net/SBCL 02:07:59 ok 02:08:04 I jump between ccl and sbcl. SBCL compiles pretty slow, and runs pretty heavy, but it's very fast, and it has an amazing profiler. 02:08:16 hmmm 02:08:20 yeah, that should be sweet then :) 02:08:29 there isn't a package for SBCL? 02:08:39 for what platform? 02:09:03 simplechat: there probably will be, but distro packages don't seem to work well with Common Lisp 02:09:12 oh, and if you want to use sbcl, you should certainly use slime. Its command-line repl isn't exactly interactivity-friendly. 02:09:26 sykopomp, linux, specifically ubuntu 9.04 02:09:38 p_l: I use my distro's included sbcl package. Works fine. (arch) 02:09:59 simplechat: I think there is, but it might be really outdated. debian/ubuntu likes living in the stone age. 02:10:09 "rlwrap" can be used to make the sbcl's repl a bit more interactive.. 02:10:10 sykopomp: I guess that's because Arch switched to SBCL for some of the popular CL software :) 02:10:17 mmmm. 02:10:25 sykopomp, will being old really affect it? 02:10:28 <_3b> debian/ubuntu have an annoyingly buggy sbcl in the stable releases last i looked 02:10:37 simplechat: what _3b said. 02:10:47 damnit 02:10:53 I've just heard a lot of griping about the debian packages. 02:10:54 any way to get a nice version? 02:11:09 ./configure && make && make-install! 02:11:12 simplechat: you can try installing the repo one, installing clbuild and then telling clbuild to compile it's own (it will keep it in /target) 02:11:27 *its 02:11:51 p_l: arch has up-to-date packages for ccl, sbcl, clisp, cmucl (I think that one's up to date), and ecl. 02:11:54 p_l, so atm i have debians version, i install clbuild then what? 02:11:57 how do i ask it to compile its own? 02:12:29 <_3b> first try clbuild check 02:12:34 and not like it's hard to roll your own package for an app, anyways. pkgbuilds are tiny. 02:12:55 <_3b> since it uses a bunch of random version control apps to download projects, so you might want to install those 02:13:04 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 02:13:06 simplechat: you install clbuild through darcs (it's basically a shell script with some datafiles and lisp code), then chmod +x clbuild; clbuild check; clbuild compile-implementation sbcl 02:13:59 make sure you don't have overzealous firewalls which block pserver, svn or git protocol, though, or setup proxy 02:14:16 p_l, i don't have restricted nets 02:14:20 but i'm not sure exactly how i'd do that 02:15:34 simplechat: give it a shot, hope for the best! 02:16:13 lol 02:16:53 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:19:51 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 02:21:09 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:21:28 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2D567.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 02:23:13 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.123.224] has joined #lisp 02:24:40 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 02:27:18 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 02:27:27 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-254.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:27:56 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:37 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit ["leaving"] 02:29:31 darcs svn git mercurial cvs 02:29:38 should cover it 02:32:06 df12 [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:33:29 -!- nickname` is now known as blakkino 02:36:19 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:38:40 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:39:16 ssttss [i=stepnem@173.19.7.99] has joined #lisp 02:44:48 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 02:49:20 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-24-217-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:49:27 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.123.224] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:58:38 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-178-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 03:01:48 -!- df12 [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:03:14 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:35 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-215-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:05:23 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-12.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:05:30 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:18 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:07:43 -!- MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 03:14:05 -!- tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:14:16 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173.19.7.99] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:15:00 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:15:08 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 03:15:26 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 03:16:13 -!- frobar [n=ulf@h-88-48.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit ["leaving"] 03:19:06 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:45 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:21:44 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 03:23:35 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 03:26:57 domiel [n=dnj@58.172.210.231] has joined #lisp 03:27:18 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-254.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:27:48 -!- mejja [n=user@c-87bae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:28:14 drafael [n=tapio@118.90.138.132] has joined #lisp 03:33:50 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-234-57.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:34 X-Scale2 [i=email@89.180.212.197] has joined #lisp 03:38:54 kenyao [n=kenyao@121.32.45.219] has joined #lisp 03:39:12 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:41:07 -!- X-Scale [n=email@89.180.166.100] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:42:18 -!- kenyao [n=kenyao@121.32.45.219] has quit [Client Quit] 03:43:52 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:07 goo_ [n=goo@213.129.54.27] has joined #lisp 03:46:09 vy [n=user@88.224.119.146] has joined #lisp 03:48:45 hi all! I have a little question, I'm trying to use Bill Clementson's color theme on my emacs but it looks that he wrote it for Aquamacs (I see (setq aquamacs-default-styles line). So how can I adapt it my emacs? 03:49:05 goo_: #emacs might know 03:50:07 you right but I think that this question is more related to lispers =) 03:50:17 -!- X-Scale2 is now known as X-Scale 03:50:32 http://unya.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/linux-common-lisp-quickstart/ <--- could someone go over it? I wrote it half asleep (still am, actually...) 03:51:00 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 03:52:04 -!- Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving..."] 03:52:33 -!- vy [n=user@88.224.119.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:52:39 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-234-57.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:53:18 tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:54:21 what is the preferred sockets library to use with sbcl? i know sbcl has a built in library but im not sure i want to use it 03:55:26 cp2: some people have advocated iolib 03:55:39 it doesn't work on windows, afaik 03:55:40 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 03:55:46 there's also usocket 03:55:48 yeah, i dont really care about windows 03:56:15 i will look at some examples 03:56:16 thanks 03:56:53 why not use the built in library? usocket does. :) 03:57:06 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:57:38 evening 03:57:50 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 03:57:59 For repositories how does everyone handle that? I mean, I built an ini parser (yay for my first lisp library) and am thinking of tossing it on cliki, but for revision control I'm keeping it in my personal git repository with a mirror up to github, is this somethign similar to what others do? What about the tarball that's up on most cliki pages? 03:58:04 Brucio-8 [n=Brucio-8@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:14 -!- Brucio-8 is now known as beslyrus 03:58:17 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 03:58:57 -!- goo_ is now known as _goo_ 04:01:07 Hmm, I should have investigated more before asking, I guess I can auto-generate these, and will use other pages as an example for now. 04:11:32 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 04:12:59 Good morning. 04:13:10 mornin' beach. 04:14:19 TDT: I just dump all my code on github, and link to there from cliki... 04:15:22 sykopomp: Thanks, that's kinda what I'm leanign toward doing. Not sure if github can create tarballs automatically, want it to be asdf compatible, if it can't, I can autogenerate them just fine. 04:15:40 it generates tarballs from all pushed tags. 04:15:59 and dumps them in the downloads page 04:16:39 -!- _goo_ [n=goo@213.129.54.27] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:17:09 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 04:17:39 Ahh, ok, nice. Didn't know that. Thanks 04:17:43 beach: I respect the idea of leaving "other-application" cruft outside of climacs, but then one needs to rig up climacs commands for launching such functionality for emacs-like goodness 04:17:55 TDT: git push --tags 04:18:39 beslyrus: That's what ESA is for. 04:18:47 ESA? 04:18:51 ok, fine, but no one has done the work :) 04:18:53 minion: ESA? 04:18:54 ESA: ESA is a layer atop CLIM functionality to provide an Emacs-Style Application framework. http://www.cliki.net/ESA 04:19:04 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl6-67-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:19:09 beslyrus: True! 04:19:26 how come there's no ESA tutorial? =p 04:19:36 hefner: Because I didn't write one? 04:20:04 oh, how silly of me. 04:20:09 Oops... 04:20:14 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:20:21 dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-198-84.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:26 beslyrus: You do get some stuff automatically, such as find-file, quit, keyboard macros, etc. 04:20:43 I guess what I'm trying to say is, "This ESA thing sounds interesting." 04:20:48 It's nice that there's a C-x C-f in climacs, but without the dired stuff, you're relying on filename completion 04:20:51 which only goes so far 04:20:55 hefner: Ah, OK. 04:21:05 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:05 just as an example of the kind of thing that I miss when I try to use climacs for real work 04:21:21 beslyrus: splittist wrote a dired application. Forget the name now. 04:21:44 beach: yes, and it looks really nice, but I can't just use it out of the box from climacs, so it doesn't do me any good :) 04:22:03 not that I couldn't figure out how to rig it up, but, IMO, that needs to be part of the editing environment. 04:22:07 beslyrus: Oh, you are saying there is no command in Climacs to start it? 04:22:10 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B314C71.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:22:12 buiutripa [n=buiu@189.71.66.125] has joined #lisp 04:22:19 beach: who knows! there might be :) 04:22:27 but if so, I don't know it. 04:22:34 nor do I know how to find out what commands are available 04:22:49 M-x dir[TAB] doesn't show anything 04:23:07 beslyrus: Well, my thinking is probably that those commands would be started from the listener, but there is of course nothing that prevents us from having a Climacs command to do so as well. 04:23:11 M-x list-group-contents shows up, but if you hit return, it drops you into the debugger :) 04:23:43 beslyrus: So you are checking out the general state of the CLIM desktop? 04:24:02 beach: perhaps I need to stop thinking of the emacs command input window (or whatever that one-line thing is called) as the listener and learn to use the listener, but I'm locked into emacs-y thinking, at least for the moment 04:24:30 beach: every now and then I decide to try to use climacs for editing and running code, but i always get frustrated and go back to emacs in order to get some work done 04:24:30 beslyrus: Sure, and we haven't really tested whether it is practical to replace that with the listener. 04:24:32 Do we have a CLIM 3d modeler yet? 04:24:47 beslyrus: I know precisely what you mean. 04:24:54 nyef: oops. where's that git repository again? 04:25:02 does the clim opengl backend even work yet? >_> 04:25:07 It's on clnet somewhere. 04:25:24 <_3b> there was at least the beginning of a cl-opengl modeler i think, no clim in it that i know of though 04:25:32 since ESA has the nice emacs-style command input stuff, it would be nice to add in commands for things like splittist's dired 04:25:44 beslyrus: I agree. 04:26:22 I have the TexImage2D stuff somewhat more disentangled from my test code, but not sufficiently cleaned up to add to CLX yet. 04:26:27 beach: it's not so much that the functionality, be it a version control system interface, a directory lister, an email client, etc..., needs to be "in climcas/ESA" but it would be really cool if they were invokable from M-x commands 04:26:49 beslyrus: Sure, and that would not be hard to do. 04:26:51 time to read to the kids 04:26:57 -!- buiutripa [n=buiu@189.71.66.125] has left #lisp 04:27:03 good, I'll expect to find it in CVS in the morning then :) 04:27:04 beslyrus: See you later. 04:27:09 heh 04:27:26 haha 04:27:40 beach: I guess you're expected to work now, hm? :) 04:28:47 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:49 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:28:53 sykopomp: Lots of people expect too much of me as it is. :) 04:29:37 ;D 04:33:31 I think what we need is another Athas, i.e. someone who comes in and sticks around for a few years, and who does some solid work. 04:38:23 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:39:22 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:39:42 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:43:11 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:43:49 df12 [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:44:37 _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E47DC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:35 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:49:40 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["later"] 04:50:09 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:51:18 dys [n=andreas@p5B314C71.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:29 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:52:51 beach: that would be nice indeed 04:54:06 mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068130186.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:11 -!- parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:54:26 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 04:54:34 -!- blakkino [n=Username@host-84-221-68-12.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has quit ["Sto andando via"] 05:00:58 icylisper [n=user@115.99.32.68] has joined #lisp 05:03:26 -!- |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E464B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 05:04:58 rtra_ [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 05:05:09 HeroDoug [i=herodoug@118.249.111.41] has joined #lisp 05:06:54 axius [n=tty@92.84.0.165] has joined #lisp 05:07:47 rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:47 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:08:36 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 05:09:01 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.123.224] has joined #lisp 05:09:14 -!- A_anekos is now known as anekos 05:10:12 legumbre_ [n=user@190.135.6.253] has joined #lisp 05:10:54 -!- mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns0163w-142068130186.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:11:39 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@207-237-217-78.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:14:12 heh: To see other commands press 05:14:16 -!- rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Rakista has left the planet"] 05:14:18 where is the key? 05:14:28 right next to the any key 05:15:08 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-96-84.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:09 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:13 greetings 05:15:20 hello fusss 05:15:30 hi fusss 05:15:42 hope you dont mind me asking; how long have you had verizon for? 05:16:01 cp2: me? about 3 years 05:16:10 beach: dunno if this is all completions or not, but using the (emulated) right mouse button for completions for "Show Command Table" makes the listener unusable 05:16:14 i have comcast at home and they suck 05:16:15 oi, do you have fios or ? 05:16:24 business dsl 05:16:26 oh, so is this verizon business? 05:16:27 beach: i know, i'm probably barking up the wrong tree... 05:16:29 yeah well 05:16:34 i have fios, 20mbit/5mbit 05:16:36 and recently 05:16:41 i have been really annoyed 05:16:45 i get dropped about 20 times a day 05:16:58 beslyrus: Yeah, I don't know anything about that. 05:17:03 just wondering if anyone else shares my pain 05:17:25 cp2: i had fios at home but the bastards plug SMTP port. forced me to launch a port-redirecting service because of that ;-) 05:17:32 heh 05:17:49 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 05:17:51 well, at least i get the bandwidth i pay for 05:17:59 but that doesnt justify the constant loss of connection 05:18:12 cp2: portnomad.com, my first Lisp project I tried to get paid for ;-) 05:18:15 beslyrus: unusable how? 05:18:16 beach: my other (yeah right...) gripe is that when I go to "Change Directory" I get a prompt for the pathname, which supports completion, which is nice. I go and type in the name, then I hit return, _then_ I have to click the OK button. Seems superfluous. 05:18:40 fusss: how did it work out? 05:18:40 hefner: the completion window pops up in front of the buttons I need to click to get the listener to be responsive again 05:18:40 beslyrus: Is this the listener or Climacs? 05:18:44 listener 05:19:07 cp2: $30/mo in revenues, 8hr/day of full time maintenance. 05:19:13 heh 05:19:15 -!- rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:19:47 -!- HeroDoug [i=herodoug@118.249.111.41] has left #lisp 05:20:03 i swear i have seen a package for passing custom command-line arguments to sbcl 05:20:18 beach: speaking of which... it strikes me that a lot of the "commands" of the listener could be in climacs as well, just implemented in the ESA command window, rather than in the listener, e.g. load file, change directory, etc... 05:20:19 well, ill be back soon 05:20:56 --userinit works too, but just to be sure if there isn't something that GNU getopt 05:20:58 beslyrus: Yes, I was thinking about that too, when you mentioned it. Perhaps there is a set of commands that should be available in most applications. 05:21:02 hefner: the other thing that happens is that even without completion I get to a point where the focus is still on, say, the input box for the pathname to "Change Directory" but I can't click on either of the buttons (OK or cancel) 05:21:13 rakista [n=rakista@71.59.128.255] has joined #lisp 05:21:19 well, Ok, I can click on them, but nothing happens. again, the listener is basically unresponsive. 05:21:27 beslyrus: Those commands could be factored out into a command table that could be inherited by the global command table of the application. 05:21:35 well, the menus still work, it's just that almost all of the items are disabled 05:21:38 -!- axius [n=tty@92.84.0.165] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:21:50 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:22:19 beach: yes, in a sense, but they could also be implemented slightly differently in the two cases. It's not that they really need to be the same commands, but both applications could implement them 05:22:34 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:22:35 sort of like how different applications implement Open, Save, etc... 05:23:07 the global approach might work, but I'm not such a huge fun of the global command table when I've got 8 different clim apps in the same process 05:23:12 I don't want them stomping on each other... 05:23:43 I don't see how that follows. 05:24:33 s/fun/fan/ 05:24:56 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:26:33 beach: perhaps I don't understand how the global command table works, but I feel like I want something that is more like a consistent set of operations that mutliple applications implement 05:26:40 i could be misguided here 05:27:31 beslyrus: So could I. 05:27:47 I keep wanting to do M-x in the listener... 05:27:52 the listener should be an ESA :) 05:28:29 an ESA-based listener would be fun, yes. 05:28:29 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-22-255.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:29:09 eek. the value of DREI::MIN-WIDTH is 1731/2 which is not of type (or (integer 0) (eql t)) 05:33:07 beslyrus: It looks like he checks the type in initialize-instance of a drei-input-editing-mixin. I am not sure why it must be an integer. 05:34:53 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-7.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 05:35:28 beach: also, it would be nice if the listener had some asdf loading goodness 05:36:17 beslyrus: Hmm, yes. It already recognized asdf files I think, but it only loads them, as I recall. 05:37:06 bah. memory-fault-error trying to display a jpeg image in the listener. 05:37:24 *hefner* is relieved to hear everything is working up to its usual standard. 05:38:04 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-7.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:38:06 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:39:25 Maybe this summer would be the time to again try to replace day-to-day use of Emacs by Climacs, and just fix problems as they occur. 05:41:54 beach: that would be awesome 05:42:25 and replace chatzilla with beirc, which actually seems remarkably usable tonight 05:42:51 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:42:56 Irssi 0.8.12 (20071006) - http://irssi.org/ 05:42:57 ;) 05:43:00 if the image viewing stuff in the listener worked for me, i would have liked to have rigged up tiff viewing via retrospectiff 05:43:35 also, it would be nice to hack closure such that it didn't fork an external process for every image it displays... 05:44:21 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 05:49:14 -!- dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-198-84.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:50:11 grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has joined #lisp 05:51:04 ai-bot [n=ai-bot@213.129.54.27] has joined #lisp 05:51:06 huh. that used to work, cl-jpeg is goofy anyway. 05:51:06 -!- df12 [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:54:18 anyway, that's a bug in cl-jpeg. 05:55:41 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.123.224] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:56:00 very strange. sometimes it works. Compiling with safety 3 doesn't reveal anything. 05:56:58 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.131.5] has joined #lisp 05:57:29 -!- ai-bot [n=ai-bot@213.129.54.27] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:58:02 dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-198-84.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:04 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.131.5] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 05:58:46 idiot-inside [n=Unknown@213.129.54.27] has joined #lisp 06:02:26 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:04:53 idiot_inside [n=Unknown@213.129.54.27] has joined #lisp 06:05:40 hefner: this doesn't seem to be the problem, but you should probably call decode-image and let cl-jpeg open the file 06:08:01 I like that. 06:11:14 argh... now I'm getting an error in drei-lisp-syntax::make-location trying to compile part of cl-jpeg. darn. 06:14:14 hefner: turning off the declare in decode-chunk gives an error elsewhere, so perhaps the dx declarations are bogus 06:14:55 or, you know, any of the other stuff in that declare... 06:16:40 I commented the whole declare form out, still works for me. 06:16:53 (except if it doesn't) 06:17:58 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.131.5] has joined #lisp 06:18:12 still works as in still gives you an error? 06:18:44 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.131.5] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 06:19:06 it seems that it's a combination of the optimize settings and one of the type decls that makes it give a memory fault 06:19:20 no, still displays an image without error. (except when I first started playing with the declarations, I caught it work one time then err the next) 06:19:41 hrm... 06:20:37 bah. that time the memory-fault-error appeared directly in the listener and now it's wedged. 06:20:37 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:21:06 ah. the joys of debugging buggy code in the same process that's running my irc client. 06:21:09 -!- beslyrus [n=Brucio-8@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["Client Quit"] 06:21:32 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:21:35 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 06:24:08 right, and then the entire thing becomes circular because in order to fix those bugs, we need a good IDE, and to do have that, we need to fix those bugs. 06:25:33 -!- idiot-inside [n=Unknown@213.129.54.27] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:27:11 d'oh! it's because it's a grayscale jpeg, I think... 06:27:23 this rgb one seems to work fine 06:27:24 you don't see those everyday. 06:27:37 -!- idiot_inside [n=Unknown@213.129.54.27] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:29:53 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:30:02 hello 06:30:18 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:32:58 morning 06:33:31 morning 06:33:58 morning Krystof, nikodemus 06:34:45 slyrus pasted "grayscale jpeg fix" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81476 06:42:55 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:47:47 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:51:33 slyrus: commit it! 06:51:54 i don't think i have mcclim commit priveleges 06:53:27 OK, I could do it unless nobody else is planning to. 06:53:46 Zaqq [n=zaqq@59.182.146.133] has joined #lisp 06:53:46 cool, thanks! 06:54:19 hi. i am looking for some scripts to do automated trading on a java based trading terminal ... any ideas? 06:56:54 slyrus: done! 06:57:02 thanks again 06:57:54 Zaqq: Perhaps I am missing something, but why are you asking such a question in #lisp? 06:58:55 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:58:56 -!- domiel [n=dnj@58.172.210.231] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:59:03 i was thinking of a lisp script which will fetch the tick list from yahoo finance etc and send a signal to make transaction on the trading website 06:59:40 i want to automate the process based on pre-defined rules set by me 07:01:19 CrazyEddy [n=adaptati@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 07:01:43 is there a more suitable channel for what I am asking? 07:03:29 I wouldn't know. 07:05:18 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:05:43 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:05:57 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-150-123.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:11 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:07:40 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:07:56 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151917.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 07:10:47 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:15:11 -!- icylisper [n=user@115.99.32.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:15:30 alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd567174.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 07:16:29 -!- rakista [n=rakista@71.59.128.255] has quit ["Rakista has left the planet"] 07:19:31 -!- alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd567174.netvigator.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:19:54 alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd567174.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 07:22:31 -!- dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-198-84.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:23:34 -!- ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has quit [Success] 07:29:25 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.254] has joined #lisp 07:33:21 ejs [n=eugen@235-198-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:55 couloir [n=chatzill@96.49.120.130] has joined #lisp 07:39:44 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:40:47 slyrus pasted "mcclim-foo-bitmap asdf fixes" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81479 07:41:22 beach: can you take a look at this one too? It's minor, but saves two systems and fixes a typo where the jpeg file was "named" gif 07:44:37 -!- grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has quit ["leaving"] 07:45:18 hm, how do i delete a dead functional that is of kind :EXTERNAL? 07:47:54 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@68.126.188.239] has joined #lisp 07:49:17 hi folks, any opinions on a dialect / implementation for use on windows? my only knowledge of these things comes from a functional programming course where we used PLT scheme 07:49:26 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-202.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:49:57 vy [n=user@88.224.119.146] has joined #lisp 07:52:26 beach: I've got a paste for mcclim-tiff-bitmaps that uses retrospectiff if you want to commit it 07:52:36 s/paste/patch/ 07:54:11 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:26 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118.90.138.132] has quit [Success] 07:57:00 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 07:58:23 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1D308.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:35 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1D308.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:01:58 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1D308.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:55 -!- ejs [n=eugen@235-198-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:08:06 whee, i think i have a fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/308914 -- now let's see if everything else still works... 08:08:35 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:12 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 08:17:33 of course not... 08:23:16 -!- Zaqq [n=zaqq@59.182.146.133] has quit [] 08:23:51 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:25:05 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-7.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 08:29:09 minion: thwap 08:29:10 thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 08:30:50 um? 08:31:51 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 08:32:07 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177127093.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:32:51 Krystof: Sorry, was just checking something. 08:33:06 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-8.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:33:34 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:35:14 Way OT: Would you trust an author who has written books for 10+ programming languages to know any of them well? 08:35:45 just asking, to be sure I'm not dismissing the guy out of prejudice 08:35:51 depends on whether the books were any good. 08:36:03 doesn't seem like a healthy hobby, though. :) 08:36:11 fusss: If his name wasn't Kernighan, D. Ritchie or something, I don't. 08:36:13 see, i just can't trust this guy 08:37:48 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 08:40:34 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 08:42:13 found a lexer I was trying to write for ruby, circa 2002; things have changed since 08:42:50 *fusss* found a whole machine from the past, digging through it :-) 08:43:34 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 08:43:45 *hefner* discovers curious bug in McCLIM's command name completion 08:43:57 *hefner* works around, pretends he didn't see it. 08:44:26 it takes a big man to ignore bugs .. srsly 08:45:02 I've evolved ignore mcclim bugs into an artform. 08:45:29 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-139-157.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:46:06 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:46:59 *fusss* is looking at a nasty past in "bio-informatics"; ugh, i was always a gig-whore, can't believe i did that too :-D 08:48:16 *hefner* commits the ASDF commands for the clim listener that he's had sitting around for several years now. 08:48:23 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:51:12 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-76-122-37-30.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:14 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 08:52:19 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:29 illuminati1113: get my email from "that" site; I am moving overseas in a few days, come over and rummage through my programming books. i have a few hundred left, take what you like :-) cheers! 08:52:52 who else is from DC? 08:54:06 anyway, good nite all :-) 08:54:09 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-96-84.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 08:54:11 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:54:34 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 08:55:15 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:59:22 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:52 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 09:01:37 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-7.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:04:48 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 09:04:58 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:09:00 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:10:39 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 09:12:34 Sikander [n=soemraws@ip98-185-236-17.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:00 grouzen [n=grouzen@brt.net.ua] has joined #lisp 09:14:58 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A3F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:16:33 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:17:05 -!- Sikander [n=soemraws@ip98-185-236-17.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:17:15 Corun [n=Corun@94.194.31.231] has joined #lisp 09:18:09 jmbr [n=jmbr@154.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:25:58 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:26:19 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:27:47 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@68.126.188.239] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:38:01 -!- billstclair-sitt is now known as billstclair 09:39:40 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 09:43:04 macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:43:19 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087B32D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:36 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:48 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont 09:45:02 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-7.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 09:45:24 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-134-212.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:48:43 dys` [n=andreas@p5B315156.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:01 sir_mud [n=sir_mud@unaffiliated/sirmud/x-838753] has joined #lisp 09:52:55 -!- jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has left #lisp 09:54:35 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B314C71.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:55:02 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@90.184.205.169] has joined #lisp 10:00:15 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 10:01:15 -!- jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has quit [] 10:01:32 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 10:01:46 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:02:46 tombom [i=tombom@86.9.235.142] has joined #lisp 10:03:03 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [] 10:03:46 -!- alantsang [n=alantsan@pcd567174.netvigator.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:05:17 any 'postmodern' users around? 10:05:31 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-7.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:06:06 -!- couloir [n=chatzill@96.49.120.130] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:06:30 i wonder if anyone happens to know if there is a way to run a query that returns a lot of data (millions of rows) without allocating a massive list 10:06:51 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Client Quit] 10:10:43 macdice: Via using a CURSOR? 10:11:19 macdice: Of course. send it as a stream of some sort. (2) sure you want to execute a query that you know will return more than a million rows? 10:13:07 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:16:03 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 10:29:30 couloir [n=chatzill@96.49.120.130] has joined #lisp 10:32:51 slyrus: I commited the contents of your paste. 10:33:32 slyrus: about the TIFF patch. Would that make McCLIM depend on retrospectiff? 10:39:33 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 10:39:59 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:40:02 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:43:14 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-8.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:45:25 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:07 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 10:47:11 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:51:20 Hun [n=Hun@p4FCF3568.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:37 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 10:52:50 Sigma [n=yann@AAnnecy-551-1-19-178.w92-153.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:53:46 -!- Sigma [n=yann@AAnnecy-551-1-19-178.w92-153.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 10:54:15 speps [n=speps@151.66.67.231] has joined #lisp 10:54:48 zoldar [n=zoldar@hot66.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:58:52 -!- sir_mud [n=sir_mud@unaffiliated/sirmud/x-838753] has quit ["So long, and thanks for all the fish!"] 11:01:53 -!- vininim [n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:01:54 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:04:29 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:43 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 11:14:05 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483FA13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:13 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-15911.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 11:20:13 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:21:19 elias` [n=me@host217-42-207-213.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:29:48 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 11:39:15 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:27 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 11:51:57 What happened to the fare-matcher and fare-utils. When downloading from CVS the CVS repository is empty! 11:53:42 vy` [n=user@88.227.111.54] has joined #lisp 11:53:53 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:55:02 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:56:34 -!- vy` [n=user@88.227.111.54] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:57:20 vy` [n=user@88.229.116.45] has joined #lisp 11:58:17 vy: right, that's what i want to access, but i couldn't see how to do that with the postmodern interface (EXECUTE returns lists, not cursors) 11:59:23 -!- jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has left #lisp 11:59:27 aja: (2) yeah i'm processing large time series, but i don't need them all in RAM at once (they probably won't fit anyway) 11:59:27 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-139-157.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:00:39 i think i found what i was looking for... DOQUERY 12:01:46 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 12:08:03 idiot-inside [n=Unknown@213.129.54.27] has joined #lisp 12:08:36 macdice: The good news is that if you have a somewhat modern operating system, you don't control whether it is in RAM or on disk. 12:08:54 the occasional flush helps, though. 12:09:05 hey tic 12:09:06 -!- idiot-inside [n=Unknown@213.129.54.27] has quit [Client Quit] 12:09:38 heya, beach! 12:09:49 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:10:00 -!- vy [n=user@88.224.119.146] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:14:36 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp154.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:14:59 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:30 beach: Bad news, it will totally make PostgreSQL to suffer from such a wrong idiom. 12:15:54 -!- vy` is now known as vy 12:17:40 -!- jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has left #lisp 12:18:02 -!- pjb [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:19:49 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 12:22:47 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 12:23:35 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:44 true, but you still have to avoid trying to allocate temporary results that will not fit in virtual ram 12:26:03 s/temporary/intermediate/ 12:26:03 "virtual ram"? 12:26:12 ram + swap space on my system 12:26:27 (i guess, i don't know much about those things) 12:27:23 -!- tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:29:59 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:30:34 pjb [n=t@85-169-63-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 12:35:04 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:17 G'morning all. 12:35:25 hello nyef 12:37:00 -!- kejsaren_ 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[n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 15:16:20 ok, there is (sb-posix:putenv "FOO=10") 15:22:20 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:22:35 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:23:02 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:04 ehu`_ [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 15:27:26 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:29:46 -!- ArtVandalae [n=SuperUnk@122.111.229.231] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:30:58 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:59 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:31:51 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@ppp-70-253-78-64.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:35:06 -!- jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 15:42:17 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:44:45 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:45:57 alexbobp [n=alex@ppp-70-253-78-64.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:59 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 15:48:14 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:20 spec experts/people who use complexes in anger (krystof?): should (/ #c(1.0 1.0) 0.0) result in NaNs or an inftys? (/ #c(1.0 1.0) #c(0.0 0.0)) => NaNs. 15:54:42 -!- rtra_ [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:55:36 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 15:55:47 zophy [n=sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:00 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:56:14 <_3b> judging by 12.1.5.2, looks like both should give the same result, whatever that is 15:58:18 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:58:45 right, but that 16:00:06 the spec doesn't cater for what I think Kahan would recommend 16:00:21 because you can't have an imaginary floating point zero 16:00:32 that is 0+0.0i in informal notation 16:01:01 *that's not what currently happens. 16:01:39 beach: it would make mcclim-tiff-bitmaps depend on retrospectiff, just as mcllim-jpeg-bitmaps depends on cl-jpeg 16:01:40 without testing it, my guess would be that what currently happens is that 0.0 is treated as 0.0+0i, so giving #c(Inf Inf) effectively 16:01:41 I'm frankly not sure the spec was written with much thought for FP edge cases. 16:01:52 pkhuong: the spec authors did talk to Kahan, I believe 16:02:02 and there's all that branch cut stuff 16:02:05 the branch cuts are nicely specified. 16:02:23 and morning folks 16:02:54 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:03:29 But the upgrading? I suppose double precision was double plus slow back then. 16:03:46 I like 0.0's interpretation as 0.0 + 0i 16:04:04 and I wish that there were a pure imaginary number type so that we could have 0 + 0.0i 16:04:15 because then I think all the fp edge cases could be made to work 16:04:36 Does the spec explicitly disallow that? 16:04:53 basically, yes: complexes have to have the same specialized representation in real / imaginary part 16:05:01 It's sane, probably what most people expect, and more efficient (and definitely looks more precise) 16:05:03 we could do it if we threw away specialized complexes altogether 16:05:38 No, not as a specialization of complex, as a number with only an imaginary part. 16:06:27 how would we make one? 16:06:45 "If either realpart or imagpart is a float, the non-float is converted to a float before the complex is created." 16:06:46 lame 16:07:49 I don't know then. 16:08:16 *nyef* really doesn't "get" floating point, let alone complexes. 16:09:20 Is there a current CLX development mailing list? 16:09:30 <_3b> so would dividing by 0+0.0i and 0.0+0i have different results? 16:09:45 _3b: I would say yes 16:10:05 the floating point zeros (positive and negative) get treated as epsilons for the purpose of branch cuts and the like 16:10:14 <_3b> ah 16:10:33 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:37 <_3b> so /0 is NaN, and /0.0 is inf? 16:11:59 carbocalm [n=user@69-196-129-69.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:28 parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:37 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:19:16 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6F3E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 16:19:52 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6F3E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:36 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:53 *nyef* takes the silence as a "no, there is no known current CLX mailing list". 16:24:35 -!- ehu`_ is now known as ehu` 16:25:42 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:30:03 -!- Hun [n=Hun@p4FCF3568.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:34:02 -!- vy [n=user@88.229.116.45] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:34:22 -!- _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E47DC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:35:28 nyef: just me, I think 16:35:50 -!- ironChicken [n=richard@mx.lurk.org] has left #lisp 16:35:54 _3b: not quite. 1/0 is Inf; 1+1i is Inf + Inf i 16:36:07 try again 16:36:22 1.0 / 0 is Inf; 1.0 + 1.0 i / 0 is Inf + Inf i 16:36:57 1.0 / (0 + 0.0i) is Inf - Inf i 16:36:59 and so on 16:38:49 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:39:35 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 16:39:36 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 16:39:49 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:45 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@154.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:40:47 pkhuong pasted "Complex float division algorithm" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81499 16:40:54 ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 16:41:36 -!- carbocalm [n=user@69-196-129-69.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:41:38 HG` [n=wells@xdslgy140.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:41:54 ironChicken [n=richard@mx.lurk.org] has joined #lisp 16:42:25 I'm not home, so I can't even check that this is really what Knuth recommends in TAoCP Vol 2, nor read the rationale. So what do you think? 16:43:43 *Krystof* prepares to make a confession 16:43:47 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 16:43:51 I've never actually read TAoCP 16:44:14 saikat__ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 16:44:15 Highly skimmable (: 16:44:20 Krystof: I've been doing some stuff with the GLX bits, and have a git tree on clnet with my fixes thus far. I managed to get texture-mapping working, though I haven't sorted out glTexImage2D enough to commit it (getting there, though). 16:44:41 Yeah, I've read bits and pieces of TAoCP, but not the whole thing. 16:51:52 pkhuong: I think that there isn't a right answer :( 16:53:54 Doing (* ry r r) instead of (* iy r) (for example) as we currently does seem fishy. 16:55:38 if r is huge/tiny, squaring r only to bring the result back to a more normal range is strange. 16:55:43 Hrm. There's no argument alignment stuff in define-rendering-command and its support code... And it currently isn't needed and might not ever be, but I need it for RenderLarge... Hrm. 16:57:28 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslgy140.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:58:15 pkhuong: true, but... it's so odd that someone must have had a reason 16:59:04 HW support for squaring? 16:59:15 no, doesn't make ense. 16:59:27 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:02 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-37.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:16 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:00 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-34-193.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:06:18 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:13:41 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:10 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:14:18 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:16:32 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:46 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:23:08 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:58 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 17:27:07 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@190.135.6.253] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:28:50 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:29:01 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:29:26 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 17:29:29 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:31:32 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.151.89] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:32:00 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.151.89] has joined #lisp 17:35:39 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:35:39 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:35:40 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:11 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:17 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:37:01 attila_lendvai [n=ati@62.201.127.174] has joined #lisp 17:38:08 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:54 <_3b> pkhuong: if i read it right, the 2nd version matches taocp, no rational provided directly, cites CACM 5 (1963), 435 17:42:32 <_3b> possibly referring to http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=367739 17:43:47 G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has joined #lisp 17:44:00 hypno [n=hypno@195.43.248.100] has joined #lisp 17:44:56 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-23-159.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:51:19 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:52:40 tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:54:21 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:54:24 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:06 <_3b> ah, guess http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=368661 is the correct cite 17:55:40 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:56:34 <_3b> not much more detail there though 17:58:33 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:01:27 -!- rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151917.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:02:29 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:32 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:04:13 bavardage [n=bavardag@87.115.92.94] has joined #lisp 18:05:35 -!- macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["^d"] 18:08:06 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:09:17 Youhou [n=jwr@bk-gw.rychter.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:21 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:12:26 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:03 slyrus: I see. Ship it over and I'll commit. 18:14:08 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:14:16 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@62.201.127.174] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:14:18 beach: i emailed it this morning 18:14:39 Oh, I guess I had better check my mail :) 18:15:04 Nope, no new mail. 18:15:22 -!- kleppari_ [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:15:27 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:15:37 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 18:17:09 z4v [n=tmh@18987146231.nit.megazon.com.br] has joined #lisp 18:17:52 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@90.184.205.169] has quit [] 18:20:39 beach: resent 18:21:23 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:33 benny` [n=benny@i577A0EE6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:40 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c023h065.dorm.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 18:22:28 I need a little help with restarts, please. 18:22:32 slyrus: got it 18:22:46 Is there a way to establish a restart and then if the code fails invoke it repeatedly (endlessly) 18:22:55 all I am able to do is call a restart once 18:23:33 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.240] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:24:25 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c023h065.dorm.reed.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:24:43 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c023h065.dorm.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 18:24:48 Youhou: what about LOOP ? 18:25:10 pjb: I'm not sure I understand. 18:25:19 with slime and CCL, am i supposed to get a "?" prompt after M-x slime [RET]? 18:25:24 (loop ...) 18:26:02 I have a restart-case and a handler-bind around it. Problem is, I'd like to be able to invoke the restart, and when it fails invoke it again and again. 18:26:19 hypno: do you have basic SLIME config, or something fancier? (pun intended) 18:26:25 -!- bavardage [n=bavardag@87.115.92.94] has quit ["leaving"] 18:26:30 No, put the loop AROUND the restart-case and stuff. 18:26:35 but the structure of the restart-case form lets you define your body and your restarts -- and you can't establish restart points in the restarts. 18:27:03 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:27:58 p_l: just load-path, setting inferior-lisp-program and then require slime and slime-setup. nothing more. 18:28:15 (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) ? 18:28:18 pjb: hmm... 18:28:30 stassats: no. (slime-setup) only. 18:28:39 hypno: add slime-fancy 18:28:53 need slime-fancy or slime-repl to even get a repl. 18:28:58 ah, duh, ok. this must have changed a while back? :) 18:28:59 hypno: otherwise you get loaded a bare-bones slime 18:29:06 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1671.versanet.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:29:08 -!- benny` is now known as benny 18:29:17 hypno: yes, and many people are still getting confused 18:29:34 Finally, committed an initial implementation of glTexImage2D: http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=users/abridgewater/clx.git;a=commitdiff;h=1e2c32fed8bae8c0b1604a354d308502b5c9b126 18:29:56 pjb: loop won't do it. I guess I could catch the condition and use go.. 18:30:19 -!- mqt [n=tran@c-66-41-46-222.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:30:29 Youhou: watch the ice-cream example in clhs restart-case. 18:31:35 p_l, stassats: alrighty. works fine now. thanks. 18:32:47 pjb: but that's not my case. Hmm, perhaps I shouldn't be using restart-case at all. What I need is to unconditonally retry a transaction if SQL-DATABASE-DATA-ERROR gets thrown. 18:33:03 beach: what do I need to do to get commit privileges? 18:33:08 restart-case lets me establish a restart to retry ONCE, but if within that restart the transaction fails again, I'm toast 18:34:34 Well, ISTM that restarts are designed more to be an interactive device. If you want to handle a condition unconditionnally, indeed (loop (handler-case ...)) will probably be better. 18:34:55 pjb: actually, the more i think about it, the more I don't want a handler-case at all 18:35:22 Youhou: So... stick the RESTART-CASE in a TAGBODY and have it GO to a tag that will cause the RESTART-CASE to run again. 18:36:22 nyef: I thought about that. You think this will work? It looked scary. The go would be from inside a restart to the outside of the restart-case form. 18:36:52 Youhou: what's scary about that? 18:36:54 I guess I'll try and see. 18:37:04 Worked for me the one time I tried it. 18:37:07 I don't know, it just feels wrong. 18:37:13 Hun [n=Hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:37:18 it's supposed to work. 18:37:36 'course, it turned out later on that the entire design was a bit lame, so I took it out, but it worked. 18:37:38 it's the implementations problem to clean up after the handler-case. 18:38:23 you'd be even more surprised that it works if you see how handler case gets implemented in SBCL (and others) 18:38:44 ehu: :-) 18:39:03 the handler-case case is itself a (LAMBDA ..) with a GO to a TAGBODY 18:39:14 well, thanks, I'll try that and see. This should be a common thing to do, I'm actually surprised it doesn't come up more often. When you have database transactions, you need to retry them, possibly a number of times. 18:39:27 in effect resorting to handler-bind. 18:40:18 *ehu`* should probably go to bed 18:41:09 jao [n=jao@211.Red-83-38-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:18 I think that one of the reasons it doesn't come up so often is that the people who end up messing with transactional systems like that either already know how to do it, can figure it out from first principles, or just use THROW/CATCH instead. 18:41:55 nyef: or never retry at all, expecting their transactions to succeed. 18:42:09 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:42:19 *Youhou* has just discovered that PostgreSQL default transaction isolation level is READ COMMITTED and not SERIALIZABLE 18:42:29 I think many people expect different. 18:43:12 anyway -- quick testing shows that a combo of (handler-bind (tagbody retry (restart-case [...] (go retry))) seems to work well 18:43:34 it's probably overkill, one should use catch/throw for that. 18:43:50 nyef: thanks a lot for the suggestion! 18:46:34 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 18:47:28 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c023h065.dorm.reed.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:47:36 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:47:38 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:47:48 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:11 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:35 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 18:49:02 -!- G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:50:33 dto`` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:12 -!- anekos is now known as A_anekos 18:52:30 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@cpe-76-173-155-22.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:54:32 lispm [n=joswig@e177120047.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:55:09 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-093-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:46 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 18:58:39 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@host178-110-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["leaving"] 19:02:41 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:11:06 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-135-152.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:51 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-34-193.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:45 -!- Hun [n=Hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:14:47 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:16:26 which lisp do we use with linux ? 19:17:01 <_3b> sbcl, ccl, cmucl, clisp? 19:17:56 abcl, ecl, acl, lispworks, scl? 19:18:03 which is the most used ? 19:18:19 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:20 on this channel, supposedly sbcl 19:19:19 frobar [n=ulf@h-88-48.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:19:45 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.255.200] has joined #lisp 19:19:57 <_3b> if you don't have any criteria beyond 'linux', sbcl, ccl or clisp would probably be best choices 19:20:05 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:21:13 is there a homepage for sbcl ? 19:21:24 minion: sbcl? 19:21:25 sbcl: Steel Bank Common Lisp is an open source / free software Common Lisp implementation. http://www.cliki.net/sbcl 19:21:33 www.sbcl.org 19:21:59 ejs [n=eugen@218-38-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:12 (and http://google.com/) 19:23:00 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 19:23:49 jmbr [n=jmbr@154.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:25:20 -!- Ppjet6 [n=ppjet@ivr94-11-88-187-39-7.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:26:00 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.242.242] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:26:38 -!- V-ille2 [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe43fb00-66.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 19:30:11 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:30:13 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 19:30:22 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 19:30:28 -!- ejs [n=eugen@218-38-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:31:50 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 19:33:40 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:33:55 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:08 -!- Youhou [n=jwr@bk-gw.rychter.com] has quit ["off to deal with transactions again..."] 19:34:54 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Client Quit] 19:35:21 oooh, apache mod-lisp 19:35:49 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:59 forget mod_lisp .. use any standard mod_proxy instead, zophy .. .. :) 19:36:17 http://www.weitz.de/hunchentoot/ 19:40:03 brown``` [n=user@72.14.228.89] has joined #lisp 19:40:33 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-76-122-37-30.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [] 19:46:06 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host29.190-138-170.telecom.net.ar] has quit ["brb"] 19:46:24 Tordek [n=tordek@host29.190-138-170.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:46:33 Krystof: I suppose you feel the same way re true 0 and (/ real complex)? 19:47:01 slackaholic [n=damascen@187-24-145-167.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:47:32 pjb hi ! 19:48:57 what is the normal way to write T: t or T ? 19:49:01 "feel" is putting it about right. I haven't studied hard the consequences of my feelings 19:52:30 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:24 danlei [n=user@pD9E2C3C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:24 this is a question, I don't intend to build anything like it. If you know what parts of the code can modify some variable that other code can use, is there anything else you'd need to know to allow for an automatic multithreaded execution of the code? (like the way haskel does it) 19:56:22 -!- brown`` [n=user@72.14.228.89] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:58:14 <_3b> you probbaly also need to know what is happening at any layers lower level than the part doing the automatic stuff 19:58:50 <_3b> compiler, cpu, memory subsystem, etc 20:01:52 oh neat.. re NaNs and Inf in complexes: "It can't be got properly 'right' until there is a reasonable NaN/infinity model for complex numbers, and you don't want to start with a Cartesian floating-point representation if you are going there." 20:05:22 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:05:55 benny99 [n=benny@p5486DB60.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:06 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:07:34 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 20:08:25 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:08:41 _3b: if you know which CL functions modify data (and what data) and you know what data those functions use was what I wanted to take as a known... is that enough? (or can the lower levels do naughty things?) 20:10:19 <_3b> i guess it depends on how conservative you are 20:11:01 <_3b> knowing what data is being used is probably the hard part in the general case anyway 20:11:01 Can anyone say how to build a 64 bit version of sbcl 1.0.29 on mac os darwin? I started with the pre-built 1.0.29 x86_64 version, installed that, got the latest sbcl source, set up the customized features, built and installed that, and end up with a 32 bit version. 20:11:21 wgl: SBCL_ARCH=x86-64 20:11:56 _3b: didn't mean to imply it was easy :) Searching for a fault in my reasoning 20:12:18 _3b: and knowing where it pays off to parallelise. 20:12:27 <_3b> yeah, that too :) 20:12:41 pkhuong: that'd be the real deal killer, I think 20:15:23 pkhuong: environment variable set before build? 20:15:42 asksol_ [n=ask@062249177188.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 20:17:04 wgl: Typically, if I need to set SBCL_ARCH, I do "SBCL_ARCH=whatever ./make.sh" 20:17:47 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 20:19:23 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:20:47 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.254] has quit ["Log this!"] 20:23:02 gorp [n=eric@lns-bzn-33-82-252-12-189.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:48 nyef,pkhuong: Thanks much 20:27:50 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:59 -!- slackaholic [n=damascen@187-24-145-167.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:29:05 Sikander [n=soemraws@ip98-185-236-17.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:56 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-8.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 20:36:11 manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-3-177.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:36:32 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 20:37:14 -!- jao [n=jao@211.Red-83-38-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:39:57 kinnetica [n=kinnetic@dhcp-234-120.wireless.american.edu] has joined #lisp 20:42:36 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:42:50 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:49:53 jao [n=jao@197.Red-88-15-115.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:53 -!- hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 20:57:19 strangeloops [n=reb@host86-156-235-7.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:57 -!- s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-168-234-193.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:00:27 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:37 rswarbrick [n=user@cpc1-cove3-0-0-cust907.sol2.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:41 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-3-177.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 21:03:52 -!- gorp [n=eric@lns-bzn-33-82-252-12-189.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:04:16 gorp [n=eric@lns-bzn-32-82-254-60-20.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:28 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:04:41 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:33 milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.240] has joined #lisp 21:07:57 s0ber [i=pie@118-160-160-149.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:09 -!- jao [n=jao@197.Red-88-15-115.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:18:15 -!- kinnetica [n=kinnetic@dhcp-234-120.wireless.american.edu] has quit [] 21:19:15 -!- strangeloops [n=reb@host86-156-235-7.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 21:21:28 patrick-fedora [n=Patrick@5ED7133A.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 21:21:44 -!- patrick-fedora [n=Patrick@5ED7133A.cable.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 21:23:36 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-15911.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:26:32 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:35 naunsins [i=charles_@120.138.100.243] has joined #lisp 21:27:35 -!- ehu` changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ABCL 0.15.0, CFFI 0.10.4, SBCL 1.0.29.1, Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. 21:27:47 and there's a new ABCL again. 21:27:51 -!- benny99 [n=benny@p5486DB60.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:28:13 yay 21:28:13 antifuchs, memo from nikodemus: would it be easy for you to have a git mirror for sbcl-page cvs module as well? 21:28:23 (yes, it would) 21:28:34 -!- naunsins [i=charles_@120.138.100.243] has left #lisp 21:29:40 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:29:57 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 21:31:23 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 21:31:39 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 21:33:15 V-ille2 [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe43fb00-66.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:34:39 we'll see a Cells port to ABCL shortly, I'm told. 21:34:49 ehu`: is jad still needed for abcl ? 21:35:07 no. never was. Only for disassembly. 21:35:25 (it can still be used for disassembly ofcourse) 21:35:29 ok 21:35:32 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 21:35:48 maybe we need a chant for our new abcl release 21:35:53 minion: chant 21:35:54 MORE OFTEN 21:36:09 once in two months is apparently not enough :) 21:37:03 finarfin [n=finarfin@fw.resman.pl] has joined #lisp 21:37:42 hello 21:38:44 finarfin: where's fingolfin ? 21:39:03 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:39:26 in a bed :) 21:39:33 i have a question 21:39:35 DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-220-250-44.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:53 is it possible to change default floating point numbers precission in sbcl ? 21:39:53 -!- DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-220-250-44.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:40:42 Ppjet6 [n=ppjet@ivr94-11-88-187-39-7.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:27 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:19 hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:30 heh. I'm the only subscriber to armedbear-announce@c-l.net; three times :-) 21:43:57 well, later. 21:45:14 in 2009, it would make sense to have an RSS feed instead of (or in addition to) an annoucement list. 21:46:14 first, create a sufficiently author-compatible xml-from-sexp library 21:46:28 (for advanced users only) then, implement an rss feed 21:46:53 *hefner* has never subscribed to a -announce list. 21:47:05 neither have I 21:47:21 <_3b> nah, rss is out of date, the project needs a twitter feed these days 21:47:29 I think I heard wnewman mention that sbcl-announce causes a lot of downlaods 21:47:35 *p_l* drops a PDP-10 on _3b 21:48:14 nah, it needs a news coverage at the national tv 21:48:18 google wave is the future 21:48:43 lispm: google wave is slightly tweaked XMPP 21:48:59 unfortunately 21:49:00 -!- finarfin [n=finarfin@fw.resman.pl] has quit ["changing servers"] 21:49:10 -!- saikat__ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:49:22 The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087B68B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:28 that's better than SOAP webservices... 21:49:36 a real programmer reads the version control logs anyway 21:49:53 hefner: nice bikeshed we've got there. which color do you think we should paint it? (-: 21:50:26 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:50:59 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:51:45 -!- hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 21:52:05 p_l: so are most things 21:53:23 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 21:53:25 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:29 minion: memo for nikodemus: http://git.boinkor.net/gitweb/sbcl-page.git 21:53:29 Remembered. I'll tell nikodemus when he/she/it next speaks. 21:53:36 oh come on. 21:53:38 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [] 21:53:39 -!- gorp [n=eric@lns-bzn-32-82-254-60-20.adsl.proxad.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:53:45 a rest interface? 21:56:21 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:56:35 -!- Ppjet6 [n=ppjet@ivr94-11-88-187-39-7.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:57:12 hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:33 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:20 -!- marcoecc [n=me@78.151.175.89] has quit ["Quitting"] 22:00:02 Does Norvig's PAIP exist in a downloadable edition? 22:00:20 no 22:00:31 antoszka: if you look through gray area, probably yes. But I don't know about official 22:00:34 only the code 22:00:39 Mhm. Thx. 22:00:59 but it's worth reading 22:01:06 For a beginner, too? 22:01:07 both the book and the code 22:01:13 (or  maybe  especially?) 22:01:24 how much of a beginner are you? 22:01:38 -!- Jarvellis is now known as Stanton 22:01:40 Quite much. 22:01:41 new to Lisp with experience in programming? 22:01:49 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 22:02:04 With experience in scripting (bashperl/tclruby). 22:02:15 Not much higher-level programming. 22:02:23 Ppjet6 [n=ppjet@ivr94-11-88-187-39-7.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:28 hmm, then the book might be a little too advanced 22:02:28 (as in building higher level concepts and structures) 22:02:43 Borbus [i=borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:49 saikat__ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 22:02:50 it might be useful to read one or two other books before PAIP 22:03:01 I'll stick with PCL for now then. 22:03:11 that's good 22:03:17 Unless you suggest something else as well. 22:03:17 excellent choice 22:03:32 -!- saikat__ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [Client Quit] 22:03:48 a more basic book is this: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 22:03:52 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:03:54 I was watching a youtube video of some MIT lecture about Lisp, he was defining what he called "procedures" like this: (define f (lambda (x) (...))), what type of Lisp is that? 22:04:02 Scheme 22:04:10 Borbus: Scheme 22:04:27 antozka: PCL has the advantage of better motivating examples 22:04:28 Oh right, so is scheme still like that? 22:04:37 almost 22:04:39 Borbus: If it's 6.001, the book for that is Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs 22:04:51 Borbus: You can usually skip the lambda 22:04:55 but I'm not sure 22:04:55 SICP uses only small bits of Scheme 22:04:58 lispm: Ah, got that one as well. Thanks. Also got my hands recently on savvy programmer's secret weapon, but it's rather quite bad (apart from very short and mostly unfinished) 22:05:03 p_l: yeah that's the one 22:05:31 Yeah, (define (f x) (...)) 22:06:03 lispm: not that scheme is too large 22:06:10 antozka: the touretzky book is nice for learning some basics, it is a bit old fashioned, but a gentle start 22:06:10 I'm learning common lisp and thought it might be useful to watch the lecture... then thought it might have been some ancient dialect of Lisp 22:06:28 stassats: lately checked R6RS ? 22:06:43 i tend to avid r6rs 22:06:58 avoid 22:07:00 SICP is useful to read and watch, but CL is a bit different 22:07:09 stassats: me too 22:07:38 I'd like to recode the lectures and transfer them to my PSP one day. 22:07:38 I think R6RS is embarrassing to the Scheme community 22:07:41 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 22:07:48 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:07:54 lispm: why ? 22:08:13 I notice in scheme you can evaluate functions, but in common lisp it seems to be an error 22:08:22 R6RS describes a batch language, it is badly written, ... 22:08:23 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087B32D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:08:25 (I think evaluate is the right terminology..) 22:08:41 lispm: go on 22:08:51 Borbus: you can do it, too, but it looks slightly different 22:09:09 <_3b> ugh, not even twm can get focus right anymore :( 22:09:26 It's not the same as quoting it is it? 22:09:26 fe[nl]ix: more complicated stuff like 'eval' is underspecified 22:09:47 (function sin) returns the SIN function as an object 22:09:50 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-145-86.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:09:55 also written as #'sin 22:10:09 Ahh yeah 22:10:39 slackaholic [i=1000@187-24-145-167.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:10:46 (let ((f (function sin))) (funcall f 3.0)) 22:10:50 above is CL 22:11:01 also note (symbol-function 'sin) 22:11:10 Scheme is: (let ((f sin)) (f 3.0)) 22:12:10 there is no way in scheme to do (some-thing 'sin) => without eval 22:12:14 Borbus: depending to whom you speak CL's way is either old-fashioned or a feature 22:12:43 Hmm.. ok 22:13:23 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:14:20 -!- V-ille2 [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe43fb00-66.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 22:14:42 df12 [n=user@24-180-44-180.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:08 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-134-212.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:16:41 And how about the Sonya Keene's book? Paid-only? 22:16:55 yes 22:17:18 (not that you can't find ways not to pay) 22:17:23 Right. 22:17:36 OK, will save up for those two till later. 22:17:40 quite a hourny 22:17:56 useful are the ANSI CL standard, and CLtL2 22:18:16 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-8.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:18:21 there is also Common Lisp, An Interactive Approach, Stuart C. Shapiro, free 22:19:29 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-134-4-124.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:19:29 antoszka: My favorite. 22:19:46 jthing: Sonya Keene's book? 22:20:14 antoszka: Ancient but a must haver 22:20:22 Will keep that in mind, thx. 22:20:23 antoszka: yes 22:20:44 And how about the recently published stuff like LOL and the lisp-game-comic book? 22:21:03 <_3b> is the game one out? 22:21:04 only if you are extremely bored 22:21:37 kleppari_ [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:21:37 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:21:39 _3b: Or maybe it's still in preparation. I thought I saw it on amazon. 22:21:57 <_3b> heh, hadn't realized that one was LoL too 22:22:05 antoszka: You can't do without "Practical common lisp" by Peter Seibel 22:22:06 <_3b> looks like planned for oct 22:22:44 beautiful code 22:23:01 jthing: I'm considering buying a printed copy to both support the author and have comfortable reading. 22:23:18 PDF books are terribly useless (except for copy-pasting). 22:23:21 And "Paradigms in AI programming" by Peter Norviog 22:24:06 the free vsn of pcl is html, not pdf 22:24:06 Possibly my favorite CS book of all time. 22:24:47 *stassats* has a free pdf from apress 22:24:49 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:24:50 NOT, free 22:24:55 there are several extremely good Lisp bools 22:25:22 t and nil, for instance :) 22:25:24 but it isn't available from their site anymore 22:25:27 the PDF for PCL was free for some time 22:25:27 rsynnott: Whichever  reading books of screen is much less comfortable. Be they PDF, HTML, DJVU or DVI. 22:25:39 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-53-38.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:25:55 my selection for 'basic' CL stuff: http://lispm.dyndns.org/news?ID=NEWS-2009-02-22-1 22:26:11 <_3b> html at least has better UI available than pdf usually 22:27:06 But crappy renderers. 22:27:09 and usually more amenable to phones and ebook readers 22:27:12 With terriblt typesetting. 22:27:15 terrible* 22:27:53 <_3b> dunno, somehow pdf renderers never seem to look nice at small enough font size to not waste my whole screen :/ 22:27:55 you can't smell it, you can't bit it, you can't hit someone with it 22:27:59 *rsynnott* recently read half a programming book on the bus on an iphone 22:28:03 s/bit/bite/ 22:28:29 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 22:30:15 One book you can avoid is Doug Hoyte "Let Over Lambda" 22:30:52 And all of The Paul Graham books 22:30:52 Mhm. 22:31:03 Including OnLisp? 22:31:33 Though "On Lisp" might deserve a closer look,. 22:31:54 You hould use a grain of salt 22:31:55 I heard that outside of some naming scheme related stuff, LoL gets better after the first few chapters (the ones that were put online). But that's a hearsay... 22:32:15 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:32:23 Let over Labda is less a book and more an extremely long vanity-printed blog post 22:32:26 p_i: It does 22:32:41 also, anything with 'hardcore' in the description is generally to be avoided 22:32:44 *lambda 22:33:12 heh. Imagine that I have just seen a job advert for a "badass" 22:33:19 ugh 22:33:19 No LOL really has some pretty usaefull macro code 22:34:23 other than from the books ANSI CL and On Lisp I never have seen any CL code from Paul Graham, I think 22:34:47 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has joined #lisp 22:34:53 I think he has a couple of essay books 22:35:17 -!- Ppjet6 [n=ppjet@ivr94-11-88-187-39-7.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:35:21 Though I would not recomend it for beginners. Paul and Dough's style is NOT standard for Common Lisp. 22:35:30 Is there any reason why I can't define a function whose name is a keyword? It seems to work, but I'm not sure it's safe. (I want to do that because I want to hide a single function from its own package without creating any new packages.) 22:35:38 recently I looked at it Arc code, the code looked okay, but not really readable for me 22:35:42 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:36:41 jcowan: yes, a keyword is shareable amoung all packages 22:36:59 it's not shareable 22:37:18 it's only in one package, KEYWORD 22:37:31 I don't think you can define functions with keywords as names 22:37:43 <_3b> lispm: it works fine 22:37:52 not in LispWorks 22:38:08 You should only use the symbol-name and 22:38:13 <_3b> hmm, thought i found justification for it last time i looked 22:38:29 from the keyword package 22:38:52 (defun :foo () 3) does not work in LispWorks 22:38:55 lispm: it might depend on whether the keyword is defined in CL-the-spec 22:38:59 Or bad things start to happen 22:39:23 Ppjet6 [n=ppjet@ivr94-11-88-187-39-7.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:42 stassats: by :keyword 22:40:09 or :whatever 22:40:15 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-34-193.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:40:17 <_3b> lispm: what does it say when you try? 22:40:32 > Error: Defining function :FOO visible from package KEYWORD. 22:40:42 lispm: works on sbcl 22:40:45 it offers a restart to define it anyway 22:40:50 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:56 use it 22:41:07 <_3b> interesting 22:41:10 ignore fussy old SBCL 22:41:29 It works on abcl, ccl, clisp, cmucl, ecl, sbcl. 22:41:41 (in this case) 22:41:42 poor sbcl! 22:41:54 just because it occasionally likes to be awkward... 22:41:56 *Sikander* wonders why sbcl is called fussy. 22:42:24 So if anybody has another closed-source Lisp to try it in, I'd appreciate it. 22:42:31 it moans a bit sometimes :) 22:42:38 works in ACL 22:42:53 (require :bla)... "7000 Style Warnings" ;) 22:42:56 duende_inside [n=muggli@68.166.118.234] has joined #lisp 22:43:02 heheh 22:43:03 jcowan: SCL is a go. 22:43:10 Alternatively I can call the function &foo, but I'd rather not pollute the namespace. 22:43:38 Of course there is the problem that if anyone else uses this half-assed trick, I'm probably screwed. 22:43:59 what namespace? 22:44:19 My own namespace. I'm trying to wind up with exactly N symbols in it, not N+1. 22:44:31 jcowan: you might want to reconsider the "no new packages" requirement 22:44:43 If only there were nested namespaces. 22:45:02 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-202.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:45:04 -!- dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:45:15 what problem are you solving? 22:45:19 dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:43 rsynnott: I enabled optimisations for a test case. What a mistake... emacs didn't like 5400 notes (one function is inlined 96 times :) 22:45:59 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@154.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:47:35 <_3b> lispm: will it let you do (import 'cons :keyword) ? 22:47:39 The package namespace is global, so I'm trying not to pollute it with more than one package. The Lisp variant I'm implementing doesn't have packages, so user functions go in the same package as the system ones. 22:48:43 -!- hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 22:49:05 _3b: lol 22:49:40 _3b: not CONS, but SIN 22:49:51 Sikander: too amny warnings and notes on things that go through other compilers 22:49:59 many 22:50:36 Even things that are legal ANSI, but not in PCL 22:50:40 Sorry, by "pollute the namespace" I mean, essentially, "pollute the package" 22:50:44 right. I always thought it was a bit much 22:51:19 but I'm happy with the performance, so I never tried another lisp 22:51:30 jcowan: your packages are not separated between host and the implemented language? 22:51:53 The implemented language has no packages. 22:52:02 (or has one package, take your pick) 22:52:35 So when FOO is defined in ISLisp, it's really defined in ISLisp::FOO from the CL standpoint 22:53:13 krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-16-238.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:53:59 looks like that only LispWorks does not like :foo as a function name 22:54:00 jcowan: you can still define everything in a ISLisp-impl, and import exactly the right symbols into ISLisp 22:54:12 even Genera does 22:54:14 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [] 22:55:36 pkhuong: I suppose so, but I only need one hidden function, and as I said, I'm not a fan of polluting the package namespace. 22:56:23 The reason I need it is as a helper for the ISLisp versions of DEFUN, DEFMACRO, etc. etc. 22:56:32 why not just name the clashing function with some extra nonsense, just like the schemers do? 22:56:41 foo and foo-retarded? 22:57:00 hypno: it's not bulletproof 22:57:09 <_3b> depending on how much you use it, you could just name it #:foo instead of :foo :) 22:57:14 Like I said, I don't want to pollute my package either. It's an aesthetic choice. 22:57:17 _3b: uh-huh. 22:57:23 *jcowan* chortles. 22:57:40 stassats: can you elaborate? 22:57:51 the usual thing is to have an internal package and then import only the wanted symbols in a documented package 22:58:07 ISLISP-IMPLEMENTATION and ISLISP 22:58:15 hypno: it doesn't solve the problem, just shifts it 22:58:45 stassats: ok. 22:59:01 lispm: I suppose. Sucks to have a package with one function in it. 22:59:27 I don't see how ISLISP-IMPLEMENTATION could clash with anything else (except another ISLISP). 23:00:25 jcowan, then use an uninterned symbol 23:00:25 <_3b> doesn't your ISLISP package already have lots of extra unexported symbols already, if you aren't just reexporting form an implementation package? 23:00:38 jcowan, a symbol that is in no package 23:01:22 #:foo 23:02:01 _3b: Sound point. What I should have said is that I don't want random function definitions that the user can bork, which would break the implementation. Random undefined symbols aren't a significant problem. 23:02:11 <_3b> ah, nevermind, i guess you were saying user code overwrites system code, so there might be a conflict? 23:02:29 *_3b* types too slowly :p 23:02:32 yes. 23:02:45 jcowan: lock the package 23:03:10 lispm: can't, it seems that's the islisp way. 23:03:28 is there a trivial-package-locks? 23:03:48 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:05:06 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:05:30 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 23:06:12 Redefinition of system functions is an error, but redefinition of supposedly hidden implementation functions isn't. 23:06:17 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:06:46 Still I may just have to bite the bullet about package namespace pollution, especially if it's conventional to assume that if you reserve foo:, you reserve foo-*: as well. 23:07:38 just use uninterned symbols and put it them into your own hashtable for lookup 23:08:15 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:49 lispm: can't exploit the reader then. 23:09:04 write a readmacro 23:09:17 if you are really worrying, you should use org.jcowan.islisp-impl 23:09:23 *jcowan* chuckles. 23:09:25 Fair enough. 23:09:28 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-53-38.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:09:38 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:09:38 org.ccil.cowan.islisp-impl, actually 23:10:14 use a relative package name 23:10:17 lispm: the point of implementing on top of CL is to make things easier, not harder, for bootstrap purposes. 23:10:23 or name.cowan.john.islisp-impl 23:10:39 -!- kleppari_ [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:11:09 well, maybe there is some another John Cowan 23:11:14 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 23:11:36 Indeed there is 23:11:37 clisp does not nativly support nested packages only ACL does. 23:11:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cowan 23:11:51 or just google 23:11:52 SBCL does not nativly support nested packages only ACL does. 23:11:56 another john cowan working on an islisp impl ? 23:12:03 Probably not, but who knows? 23:12:05 <_3b> well, put your name, a uri, and a few GUIDS and UUIDS in the package name :p 23:12:17 *jcowan* laughs 23:12:26 isn't there an implementation of nested packages 23:12:34 There is however a library that allows this to happen 23:12:44 lispm: there is, courtesy of Franz 23:12:58 A portable one... 23:12:59 *pkhuong* is looking for packages that use complex floats and come with tests. 23:13:20 pkhuong: try gsll 23:14:34 fe[nl]ix: the complex frobbing is in C. 23:14:58 pkhuong: BLAS 23:15:11 how maxima implements complexes? 23:15:55 That old fortran package 23:16:02 with rationals, most likely. 23:16:15 nop 23:16:56 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:48 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:23:05 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 23:25:19 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:25:26 couloir [n=chatzill@96.49.120.130] has joined #lisp 23:26:12 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 23:26:41 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-38-252.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["L'oignon fait la farce."] 23:27:43 saikat__ [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:44 ssf [n=sf@66-17-110-245-swiftelNET.brookings.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:39 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-76-228-82-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:29:44 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:12 Do you guys have any other good/appropriate names for "macro"? (please don't say "SPEL" :)) 23:30:52 "Rewrite rule". 23:30:54 "metafunction"? 23:31:07 _3b, you there? 23:34:01 "kludge" 23:34:12 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-093-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:34:24 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:55 hefner: Hahaha, :D 23:34:58 <_3b> manic12: a bit 23:35:40 Quadrescence: "thingie" 23:38:18 *slackaholic* is away: studying.... 23:40:24 i have a GL question, that no one on ##OpenGL can seem to help me with, and it's simple 23:41:19 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-24-145-167.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:42:43 if it would be Newlisp, then the appropriate name for "macro" would be "fexpr" 23:43:14 -!- sellout [n=greg@pool-141-156-131-49.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:43:30 "code transformer" 23:43:38 "source transformer" 23:44:19 "lisper's delight" 23:44:25 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:45:46 "code obfuscater" 23:46:43 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.240] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:46:44 "code obfuscator" 23:47:07 c0de 0bfußkat0r 23:47:29 if we are on pointless, but fun renamings, I propose "code walker" => "code wanker" ;-) 23:47:31 "doesn't know about lexical variables" 23:47:33 lispm: I was thinking transform. 23:48:04 in Common Lisp: "dirty function" 23:48:11 -!- krumholt__ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-16-238.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:48:54 dirty non-function? 23:49:14 it is so .... unhygienic 23:49:48 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483FA13.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:49:58 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:51:28 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:07 SOURCE CODE TRANSFORMERS!!! 23:52:17 MORE THAN MEETS THE EYE COMPILER 23:52:24 get it, #lisp? 23:52:28 huh huh huh? 23:52:31 I wish I hadn't. 23:52:34 whats that? 23:52:51 "codelets" 23:53:41 -!- couloir [n=chatzill@96.49.120.130] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:53:56 -!- speps [n=speps@151.66.67.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:54:12 couloir [n=chatzill@96.49.120.130] has joined #lisp 23:54:22 speps [n=speps@151.66.67.231] has joined #lisp 23:55:25 cp2: http://media.ideaanddesignworks.com/idw/covers/transformers/dreamwave/official_guidebook/original_series/v01/TF_MoreThanMeetsTheEye_01CvrTPB_large.jpg 23:56:15 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 23:57:03 -!- asksol_ [n=ask@062249177188.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Client Quit]