00:01:54 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:02:09 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 00:02:45 frobar [n=ulf@h-85-24-219-170.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 00:05:28 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-34-75.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:11:29 rvirding [n=rvirding@h59n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:25 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslhe207.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:12:54 danlei [n=user@pD9E2FA58.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:20 blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:100:216:d3ff:feb0:58e0] has joined #lisp 00:14:54 dys [n=dys`@p5B31707E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:55 so, I can write an expression for sign extension that SBCL compiles down to two instructions, which isn't bad, except that its magic builtin double-coloned thing does it in one using MOVSX. 00:15:46 vmCodes [n=vmCodes@c-76-121-83-217.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:55 which is probably a wash since it wraps that in two fixnum shifts versus mine not, but perhaps that goes away once inlined into nice fast code. 00:16:20 -!- vmCodes [n=vmCodes@c-76-121-83-217.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:16:31 you could just write a VOP. It's not like sign-extend is available on anything but x86oids. 00:16:56 vmCodes [n=vmCodes@c-76-121-83-217.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:52 ah, see, I didn't know that either. 00:18:55 that's what I get for dipping into internals. 00:19:24 I think it's only there because of the ABI being fairly lenient re high bits in sub-register return values. 00:20:33 *hefner* becomes more portable 00:24:06 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-98-238.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 00:24:43 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-98-238.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Client Quit] 00:25:02 Why is it, that defmethod only can specialize on class and eql? What if I want another test, lik #'equal, #'<, or (lambda (x y) (and.....? 00:25:15 s/lik/like/ 00:25:40 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-1c8ca9bda54070ed] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:27:01 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 00:28:08 -!- jlf [n=user@209.204.171.109] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:28:56 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:29:03 hello 00:29:22 hi 00:29:25 meingbg: in order for methods to work you need to have an ordering of specificity. with an arbitrary predicate you don't get that automatically 00:29:29 meingbg: hi :) 00:29:37 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:17 Does anyone here know a easy way to write and manage documentation strings in few languages? 00:30:51 kpreid: Of cource, that's pretty obvious... I'm tired, I guess. 00:32:10 tomoyuki28jp: well, you could _tag_ your documentation strings: (defun f () "English DocDoc en français" ...) and wrap CL:DOCUMENTATION to display the current selected language. 00:32:48 pjb`: yeah, that's a way. thanks! 00:33:14 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:33:25 But in any case it's a lot of work. Already maintaining the documentation in one language is hard... 00:33:55 pjb`: yeah, I totally agree with you. 00:35:18 pjb`: How would you wrap cl:documentation? Is it a generic function? 00:35:50 tomoyuki28jp: I'd go for short, succint explanation of functions and parameters, and have separate in-depth manual that could be translated... 00:35:53 (shadow 'documentation) (defun documentation (sym kind) (select-current-idiom (cl:documentation sym kind))) 00:36:09 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:36:33 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 00:36:43 *meingbg* didn't know about shadow. 00:37:01 *meingbg* will do less lisp OOP in the future... 00:37:12 Or you could just call it localized-documentation 00:37:40 pjb`: But which one would slime pull from? 00:37:47 as it happens DOCUMENTATION *is* a GF. you could define your own documentation type which does the lookup and forward... 00:37:59 meingbg: patch slime; you've got the source, it's for a reason! 00:38:26 kpreid: that'd be ugly, but why not (documentation 'car 'french-function) ??? 00:38:48 of course the real answer to your problem is http://www.geekherocomic.com/2008/11/12/real-programmers-dont-write-documentation/ 00:38:52 I'd use a generic wrapper 00:39:17 (documentation 'car #s(doclang :lang :fr :type function)) 00:40:05 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@160.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:40:09 (defmethod documentation (obj (doc-type doclang)) (parse (documentation obj (doclang-type doc-type)) ...)) 00:40:51 It would work nicely when you have a layer above such as slime. My solution is nicer when you work at the REPL. 00:41:23 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 00:41:50 pjb`: Of course. Main reason for asking was trying to learn how wrappers work. If I define a function aa to call doc, which at the time is cl:doc, then shadow it - which one will be called from aa? 00:42:42 cl:doc. 00:42:49 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 00:42:53 shadowing doesn't change the symbols refered by existing data or code. 00:43:01 ok. 00:43:02 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:43:06 *hefner* returns to the mystery of the cpu-wasting audio thread, armed with a shiny new SBCL and a version of sb-sprof that doesn't spontaneously combust. 00:43:09 Shadowing changes the interning that will be done on subsequent reads. 00:43:49 Sounds logical - read interns a symbol depending on current *package*, right? 00:43:57 Yes. 00:45:27 So what about function redefinition? 00:45:54 Unless their inlined, code refers functions thru their name. 00:46:24 So when you redefine a function, the new version will be called. Even by code running in other threads. (as long as it's not inlined). 00:47:27 pjb`: That's what I would have thought... Just got confused when a program seemed to behave otherwise. Could I have inlined by mistake? 00:48:18 meingbg: inside a compilation unit (a file), inline may happen automatically. You have to (declaim (notinline f1 f2)) to prevent it. 00:49:36 ah. that's simple enough. 00:49:42 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:49:55 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 00:50:45 *meingbg* is trying to imagine how much headache is involved in writing a good lisp implementation 00:51:39 -!- Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-27-247.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["« La POO c'est bien beau, mais en C au moins on va droit au but. »"] 00:55:11 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.129.212] has joined #lisp 00:57:49 Is there a way to have the HyperSpec-lookup in Emacs, instead of a web browser? 00:58:41 meingbg: there are several web browsers implemented in emacs. 00:58:52 have a look at w3m. 00:59:10 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:00:08 pjb`: ok, thx. 01:00:38 Once you've installed w3m, customize browse-url-browser-function. 01:00:52 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-26-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:01:30 don't cook eggs in a microwave! 01:02:12 Don't boil water either in a microwave! 01:02:34 Use your microwave to cook your enemies! 01:02:40 chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-79-200-142.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:50 eggs explode 01:03:30 just found out the hard way 01:03:48 ahahahahahaha 01:03:52 Put Christmas lights in a microwave, then turn it on. 01:03:55 Seriously, it's fun. 01:03:56 if you bring the temperature of the water to more than 100 C, when you get it out the least chock or impority falling in it will make it evaporate quickly and may burn you. 01:04:45 http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=microwave&aq=f 01:04:45 perfect for instant coffee; no need to stir at all and the sugar is instantly dissolved too. 01:05:03 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:05:06 This one is #lisp-related: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GudhnqlPpok 01:05:20 So who's writing microwave functionality for emacs? 01:05:26 Someone beat me to the coffee making one. 01:06:04 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:10 Hello all. 01:07:54 dkcl: Well, death-ray.el basically pleads to be written :P 01:08:11 *dkcl* notes down. 01:08:32 -!- vmCodes [n=vmCodes@c-76-121-83-217.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:10:03 nyef: hello 01:10:20 wb nyef 01:11:39 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.249.216] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:11:51 I suspect that I'm going to hit a wall with my current random hack soon. 01:12:08 -!- bhyde [n=Adium@c-66-30-202-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:12:18 need any help? 01:12:21 Have you made sure it's entirely random? 01:13:03 dkcl: It's random enough to not be entirely predictable, but not so random as to be good enough to base a monte carlo simulation on. 01:13:30 nyef: That's what I was talking about. =[ 01:13:39 jthing: I suspect that it's going to be one of those things where the given advice will be exactly what I don't want to hear. 01:13:49 entirely random, like libasound2 CPU usage. 01:13:53 *hefner* cries 01:13:58 Ugh. ALSA. 01:14:05 Ugh. Linux. 01:14:16 lol, I suspected as much nyef 01:15:13 Basically, last night I wrote something to load a 3d object from a file and display its mesh in a window for three seconds. 01:15:43 The obvious things to do are to add some real user control so that it doesn't just quit after three seconds, and to try and sort out texture mapping. 01:15:43 Brave boy, doing 3D work. 01:16:11 open GL ie. 01:16:21 Yeah, OpenGL. 01:16:47 The catch is, I'm using CLX. 01:17:37 hohoho 01:17:43 very brave. 01:18:18 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:18:18 hefner: Perhaps. But I think it "just" needs a redesign and some serious thinking about how to handle pixel data. 01:19:03 And, yes, I'm using a patched CLX. 01:19:12 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@208-45-247-237.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [] 01:19:36 the CLX bit sounds questionable 01:19:36 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 01:19:45 What's questionable about it? 01:20:10 too low level 01:20:27 ... How so? 01:20:51 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-opengl/ 01:21:42 jthing: you still need to control X, dunno if cl-opengl takes care of that 01:21:52 *hefner* pounds fists at thread using 46% CPU to do nothing but push zeros to ALSA. A few minutes ago, a different thread doing the same thing only used 3%. It is madness. 01:21:58 And I've heard scary things about various GLUT implementations. 01:22:00 ah, there's GLUT 01:22:03 well It worked for me, perhaps it will serve you too 01:22:31 Plus, it's at least two extra dependencies. 01:22:37 (cl-opengl and cffi.) 01:22:56 plus insanity like babel and alexandria 01:23:16 As I said, -at least- two extra dependencies. 01:23:22 ... C32's acronym takes the cake 01:23:27 With CLX my extra dependencies are CLX. 01:23:46 on the other hand, cl-opengl actually works. 01:23:56 Hey, I have wireframes at least! 01:24:21 http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/garnet/garnet/FAQ <--- scroll down to "acronyms" 01:24:41 Oh, right, that C32. 01:24:59 I'm impressed. All clx's glx ever did for me was blow up in weird ways I can't quite remember. 01:25:03 -!- meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:25:29 hefner: That's probably because it's finicky and silently does the wrong thing when provoked. 01:25:47 The patch I have makes it less quiet. 01:25:56 meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:50 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-205-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:28:03 I suppose there's some hopeful (??) chance that this is just some spooky interaction with SBCL, rather than infuriating brain damage in the linux sound system (despite repeated reports to that effect for the past year). 01:28:29 nyef pasted "A CLX patch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80998 01:30:19 (.length. (+ 4 (* 4 (ceiling ,total-byte-width 4)) ? 01:30:27 Hey, you want sound system damage, mozilla tends to lock up on me, locking ALSA with it, some time after resuming a suspend-to-ram. And after resuming an s2ram sound just plain doesn't work until such time as I start playing something with audacious (no other app has been found to sort things out). 01:30:31 what is .length 01:30:40 -!- meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:30:57 Don't know, that's from the original code. 01:31:08 The patch adds a declaim and a (values). 01:31:37 Which is enough to get SBCL to start bitching about bogus function parameter types, but not enough to make things airtight. 01:31:41 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslhe207.osnanet.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 01:32:04 meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:54 by the way it is still in the + bit 01:33:32 nyef annotated #80998 "A bit of a hack based on the CLX GL demo" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80998#1 01:34:02 (diff can be a pain) 01:34:40 Yeah, proper sexpr-diff utilities might be interesting. 01:35:55 I like the way you use `proper', as though there were a clearly best solution to the problem to which the adjective would be applied. 01:36:59 -!- nenorbot [n=nix@bzq-219-145-16.static.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:37:20 ILTWYS"P", huh? 01:38:31 -!- gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-210.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 01:39:56 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h59n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 01:41:48 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:43:00 Anyway, once I sorted out the argument type stuff I've been getting decently repeatable results. 01:44:32 The problem is that -none- of the texture-upload things have been implemented. 01:46:11 -!- blackened`_ [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:46:15 drdo [n=psykon@78.130.77.70.rev.optimus.pt] has joined #lisp 01:48:19 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:48:42 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:01 rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:56:57 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:100:216:d3ff:feb0:58e0] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:59:32 I guess textures weren't a priority... 01:59:43 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:00:09 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:00:51 Well, being able to lay in vertexes is more of a priority than being able to upload textures, wouldn't you say? 02:01:55 nyef: Well, I meant it as a comparison of how "workstation" and "consumer" 3D had evolved... workstation stuff often had texturing as addon, while geometry stuff was "most important" 02:02:36 Well, with CLX, it looks more like a matter of "they were harder to implement", you know? 02:03:01 haha 02:05:15 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:05:33 And given the corners cut on what -was- implemented, it's clearly a hack that was committed to mainline before it's time and is in desparate need of some TLC and a redesign. 02:05:47 Err... THWAP! 02:06:44 but enough about that. let's get back to my murderous, sadistic fantasies involving ALSA developers. 02:07:26 hefner: it could be worse, you might have been forced to go through ShitAudio 02:07:49 Or gotten JACKed. 02:08:26 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:08:40 Hey, ever use waveOut for audio? Now -that's- a disaster waiting for you to upgrade from 9x to an NT-based system. 02:09:04 apparently, what I have to do is either output at 48 KHz and resample myself, bypass dmix and hog the whole audio device, or get myself arrested for torturing and dismembering the entire development team. I'm partial to the latter. 02:10:31 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:34 What I'd like to know is what audacious does that unwedges things after an s2ram. 02:13:00 nyef: depends. I know that MPlayer notices that PCM is suspended and wakes it up 02:13:42 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:43 Really? Looks like I have mplayer installed. I'll have to try that tomorrow morning. 02:14:32 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:48 nyef: At least that's what I get with my snd-hda-intel 02:14:55 bare alsa config 02:15:27 -!- meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:15:30 Yeah, snd-hda-intel here too. 02:15:31 meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:22 Maybe things will be better with the next kernel release. 02:16:34 (IMHO it should be renamed snd-shitty-intel) 02:16:40 haha 02:16:44 I'm still running 2.6.28, and since the release cycle ends before I leave for home... 02:17:11 *hefner* is running 2.6.21, and wonders if anyone has fixed the fat filesystem driver yet. 02:17:11 hefner: can't call an overgrown DAC a soundcard 02:17:20 hefner: what was wrong with it? 02:17:45 It's too skinny? 02:17:50 *p_l* is on TOMOYO 2.6.29.1 02:18:39 somewhere around 2.6.24, some fucktard went screwing with it and broke the case sensitivity (or lack thereof). I've been holding machines back ever since. 02:19:29 Might be a mount option? 02:19:47 hmmm... i had case-sensitive fat since time immemorial, but that's due to not playing nice with 9x assumptions :-) 02:20:24 nyef: no, the mount options were completely busted. I tried most all combinations, and usually what you ended up with was a filesystem that would create files you subsequently couldn't open, due to disagreeing ideas about filename case. 02:20:49 hefner: are you mounting it with utf8 as charset? 02:21:24 Oh, for the days of Linux 0.99pl45, huh? 02:21:25 god knows. I used to just mount it with no fancy options. 02:21:37 anyway, I've already moaned about this almost a year ago. no sense repeating it. 02:21:49 hefner: the kernel might have utf8 chosen as default 02:22:13 the thing is, iocharset=utf8 causes fat to behave like it's case-sensitive 02:22:23 hefner: there's the humouristically named posix option for case sensitivity. 02:22:41 pkhuong: you mean in NT? 02:23:25 no, as a mount option for FATesque FSes. Because case sensitivity is all that's needed for posixliness? 02:23:55 pkhuong: heh. I have case sensitive Windows, so I'm more worried about crashing windows apps ;D 02:33:08 -!- fredbard [n=fredMobi@admin161-204.hampshire.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:33:19 fredbard [n=fredMobi@admin161-204.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 02:36:45 -!- tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:37:40 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-79-200-142.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:39:13 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:53 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.141.235] has joined #lisp 02:45:23 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-192-99.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:45 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.129.212] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:50:03 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-9bffe6f49cbb3922] has joined #lisp 02:55:40 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-205-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:24 peterc [n=pcaffin@emu.autons.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:00:40 -!- peterc [n=pcaffin@emu.autons.net.au] has left #lisp 03:05:26 -!- dkcl is now known as dickle 03:09:28 -!- toteadler [n=toteadle@pool-71-126-64-202.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:13:20 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:14:29 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@201.102.108.21] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:15:16 ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.175] has joined #lisp 03:15:37 upgraded sbcl fixed CommonQT... now, I wonder if there will be enough stuff to implement what I want 03:15:56 -!- ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.175] has left #lisp 03:16:17 parodyof` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:37 I'm going to wish you luck with it and sign off, as I don't want to be up late again tonight. 03:16:42 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 03:17:26 heh. It's 0416 here ;) 03:19:29 -!- rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042315]"] 03:19:50 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:21:41 dysinger [n=tim@32.177.49.175] has joined #lisp 03:24:35 vmCodes [n=vmCodes@c-76-121-83-217.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:08 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-129-40.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:35:10 ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.175] has joined #lisp 03:37:45 DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-226-31-221.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:47 -!- vmCodes [n=vmCodes@c-76-121-83-217.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:41:23 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-236-169.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 03:41:57 ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:43:24 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-236-169.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 03:44:34 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:44:46 -!- ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.175] has left #lisp 03:53:22 Grrrr. I do not like IEEE Explore and the way it lets in the Google bot but not me. 03:54:11 that's the way they make their money 03:55:22 lol 03:55:38 Sure. But it's still annoying to search for a term, click on the top result and have the term not appear on the resulting page. 03:55:41 Feels like a cheat somehow. 03:55:47 find a university with a CS/EE department and access the links from there >_> 03:56:20 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-192-99.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:56:21 ace4016: assuming they have access 03:56:49 gigamonkey: need something retrieved? I think I have super IEEE powers. 03:57:08 yea; i've been lucky enough to attend universities with access :) 03:57:21 http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/85/33687/01603439.pdf 03:57:50 -!- parodyof` [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:58:06 Actually I don't really need it as the bit I see from Google is basically enough to confirm the thing I need to confirm. 03:58:07 -!- dickle is now known as dkcl 03:58:54 rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:02 ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.58] has joined #lisp 03:59:51 -!- drdo [n=psykon@78.130.77.70.rev.optimus.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:59:54 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@201.102.59.252] has joined #lisp 04:00:02 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:07 Then they further taunt me by including it in the ACM Portal (which I do pay to have access to) but it's not really there--it just redirects to IEEE. 04:00:24 haha 04:00:41 that's good, because I can't find where they hid the proxy controls in this sad excuse for a desktop 04:01:02 *hefner* kicks gnome, which now taunts him even when he doesn't use it 04:01:04 hefner: ssh -L is less trouble. 04:01:07 hefner: if you're using Firefox, use FoxyProxy 04:01:24 pkhuong: ssh -D is even less :) 04:01:33 telnet is amazingly good! 04:01:35 NOT. 04:02:51 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:03:06 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:07 *hefner* makes a simple task impossible through myriad unspecified constrains, as usual 04:06:52 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:07:00 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:51 #-iamnotkenny <--- I wonder what caused such code 04:11:38 hello 04:11:50 hi manic12 04:11:51 I like to sneak the odd #+hefner into things 04:12:03 hefner: this has #+(and allegro ide (not its-alive!)) 04:13:15 colorful! 04:15:11 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-ee0413152133b0ce] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:15:44 But who knows, maybe that version of cells actually works. While Kenny might have been the final push that caused me to go after CL, I don't remember even *one* case when I managed to compile that stuff 04:15:50 -!- spacebat_ is now known as spacebat 04:16:16 *hefner* still needs to write his own Cells 04:16:36 hefner: will it be thread-safe and efficient? :P 04:16:56 probably not, no. 04:17:13 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:17:49 I'm hoping a suitable design to rip off will just fall into my lap so I don't have to think too hard about it. 04:18:10 One thing I find problematic with the whole idea is how to adapt it to concurrent/multithreaded application 04:18:27 well, those are fiction anyway :) 04:18:29 hefner: computed-class has some useful code. 04:18:35 minion: computed-class? 04:18:36 computed-class: A class metaobject for computed slot values and more Instances of computed-class are CLOS classes that support per instance lazy computation of slot values while keeping track of dependencies and managing invalidation of such computed results transparently. http://www.cliki.net/computed-class 04:19:11 it's like difference between multithreaded GC and Stop-Everything-GC-is-running ;-) 04:19:12 -!- DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-226-31-221.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:19:13 um 04:19:26 I guess I should play with that, despite my preference being toward something more like "computed-classless" 04:19:38 that sounds exactly like adhoc, which soulds exactly like gdl which sounds exactly like icad 04:20:47 hefner: then maybe something like FRP? 04:21:04 hefner: i see a simple choice... you either re-write 2/3 of CLOS, or just use what's there. 04:21:07 Though I don't know how much it fits into that model :D 04:21:20 sunwukong [n=vukung@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 04:21:24 *drewc* made a lot of object systems before drinking the AMOP kool-aid 04:22:06 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@208-45-247-237.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:13 plage [n=user@83.224.64.17] has joined #lisp 04:22:16 Good morning. 04:24:00 KingThomasV [n=KingThom@c-76-122-37-30.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:58 pjb`` [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 04:25:39 -!- pjb` [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:25:39 -!- xan [n=xan@9.Red-83-42-12.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:25:39 -!- jawn-_ [n=dicks@daemon.Stanford.EDU] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:25:39 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:25:39 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-234-40.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:25:39 -!- gmlk [n=gmlk@alicia.demon.nl] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:25:39 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:25:39 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-76-122-37-30.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:25:39 salut m. la plage 04:26:51 gzip4_ [n=xxx@ws102.zone134.zaural.ru] has joined #lisp 04:27:05 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has quit ["bye"] 04:27:12 DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-226-31-221.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:40 jawn- [n=dicks@daemon.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 04:27:49 xan [n=xan@9.Red-83-42-12.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:51 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 04:28:08 sunwukong [n=vukung@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 04:28:33 *hefner* does enjoy reading about the cute yet utterly useless creations of the FRP crowd 04:29:07 hefner: Haskell FRP packages seem rather useful (although some of the debugging problems sometimes are crazy) 04:29:51 s/utterly/mostly/ 04:30:30 I know of one person who met Reactive sometime around a week ago and now started rewriting code to use it... usually resulting in less code in the end 04:30:58 I'm not sure if he switched to it in his filesystem and middleware code, but I wouldn't be surprised 04:32:40 gmlk [n=gmlk@alicia.demon.nl] has joined #lisp 04:34:23 -!- ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.58] has left #lisp 04:35:05 -!- kidd2 [n=kidd@156.Red-79-152-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:35:41 kidd2 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-114.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:04 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 04:37:51 Rivelli` [n=tesla@adsl-75-16-94-29.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:32 -!- rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has left #lisp 04:41:08 -!- gzip4 [n=xxx@ws102.zone134.zaural.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:41:08 -!- npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:42:59 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@149-234-40.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 04:50:35 DekuDekuplex [n=chatzill@KD210249053249.ec-userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:53:56 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.126] has joined #lisp 04:55:02 There's some kind of bug in my Towers of Hanoi program, and I can't seem to get the format statement to work. 04:55:14 -!- ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 04:56:45 DekuDekuplex: are you the author of cl-towers? 04:57:03 Nope. 04:57:24 Incidentally, do I use http://paste.lisp.org/ to paste things here? 04:57:43 yup 04:57:54 Ok. 04:58:08 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:48 Let me dig up that broken hanoi code.... 04:59:47 DekuDekuplex pasted "broken hanoi program" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81004 04:59:57 There's the code. 05:00:09 For some reason, only the last format invocation is called. 05:00:43 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@208-45-247-237.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [] 05:00:50 -!- fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:00:52 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:01:05 DekuDekuplex annotated #81004 "result of calling hanoi" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81004#1 05:01:22 There's the result of calling (hanoi 3). 05:01:22 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.254.137] has joined #lisp 05:01:29 Only got NIL. 05:01:57 When I replace the "t" with "nil," then only the last invocation is called, which makes sense, since then it is only supposed to return a value. 05:02:09 But I thought that the "t" would cause it to print to standard-output. 05:04:01 I'm using GNU CLISP 2.37 in Lisp Box. Someone told me to go try it in LispWorks, but why would it make a difference if the language is the same? 05:05:45 -!- dysinger [n=tim@32.177.49.175] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:06:50 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.141.235] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:09:13 It _should_ write on the standard output with "t", so your output stream may be misconfigured 05:09:54 try to take a look into the *inferior-lisp* buffer 05:09:59 Ok. 05:10:51 Yep, it somehow got put there. 05:11:21 Unfortunately, it's not exactly how to fix this. I thought that standard-output was mapped to the REPL in SLIME. 05:11:45 s/exactly/exactly clear 05:12:02 It should be... 05:12:27 Can you show me your .emacs file? (I'm not familiar with lispbox) 05:13:04 Sure, but it's rather long.... It's set up for, besides CL, a number of interesting languages.... 05:13:32 just paste it in some pastebin 05:14:05 DekuDekuplex: SLIME + SBCL + config from clbuild (with few changes) works as advertised (that is, your hanoi program prints in REPL) 05:14:41 Let me paste it. Oh, and BTW, you should really look at my .emacs.nt.el file instead, since my .emacs file actually functions as a switcher between GNU Emacs and Meadow. 05:14:52 ah, ok 05:14:57 So let me paste my .emacs.nt.el file instead. 05:16:02 Uh oh, "Paste too large." error returned. 05:16:26 Ok, let me divide and conquer as two files. 05:16:36 Two pastes, rather. Here it goes. 05:17:53 Strange ... the pastes went through, but didn't register here. 05:17:56 One more try. 05:19:15 Still didn't register. 05:19:38 Maybe it's still too large ... let me cut out some of the contents into the second paste. 05:20:15 Maybe I should just paste the lisp-relevant portion? 05:20:23 that would be a good idea :) 05:20:28 Ok. 05:21:21 I'm going to need to paste the Clojure-specific part as well, since it also uses SLIME, and could be interfering with the set-up. 05:23:04 DekuDekuplex pasted ".emacs.nt.el file contents: Common Lisp setup-relevant portion" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81008 05:23:59 I have discovered that the reason that the pasting wasn't going through was that a new paste didn't auto-select the previous channel. 05:24:49 Well, that looks fine. 05:25:10 Do you have a ".swank.lisp" file? 05:25:29 Let me check.... 05:26:09 I do have a "swank.lisp" file, without the leading period. 05:26:23 It's on Windows XP. 05:27:16 It's a quite large file, right? Then it isn't what I was asking about. 05:27:29 139 KB. 05:28:00 Hmm... 05:28:29 I can't find a .swank.lisp file. 05:28:40 Is it supposed to be in the home directory? 05:28:51 It's okay, it is a configuration file, no problem if you don't have one 05:28:59 Ok. 05:29:41 I was going to use SBCL, but it's difficult to set up with SLIME on Windows XP. Specifically, it's hard to start the REPL. 05:29:57 SBCL is really set up for Linux. 05:30:24 For some reason, SBCL only goes to the inferior-lisp buffer. 05:30:43 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 05:32:07 I'm worried about some kind of version conflict between SBCL and SLIME, since there is one between the ancient SLIME 2.0 and CLISP 2.45. 05:32:18 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.9.141] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:32:24 I had to use the CVS version of SLIME to work with CLISP 2.45. 05:32:34 Although SLIME 2.0 works with CLISP 2.37. 05:35:20 as a workaround, you can call "slime-redirect-inferior-output" 05:35:59 Should I put that into my .emacs.nt.el file? 05:36:27 You can also do that, but just call it once now and try. 05:36:33 Ok. 05:37:13 Yeah, now it worked. 05:37:19 (also, if you place it .emacs, you should put it into a slime hook, because it should only be called, when slime has already booted up) 05:37:39 s/.emacs/in .emacs/ 05:38:28 The only problem with that command is that, if I understand it correctly, it redirects ALL inferior-output to the REPL, not just that of hanoi. 05:38:34 Correct? 05:38:40 yes 05:38:45 ... 05:38:47 Orest [n=orest@p4FC4614D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:48 vy` [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 05:39:12 Normally you don't get any output to *inferior-lisp*, though, so it should be OK, but it's still not a clean solution. 05:39:26 It would be nice if there were some option to the format statement that would redirect the output to the REPL. 05:39:43 Then I could redirect specifically the output from the hanoi procedure. 05:40:27 `format' is on the Lisp level, this problem should be solved on the Emacs/SLIME level 05:40:56 Ok ... then I suspect that the best solution is to find a way to get SLIME to work correctly with SBCL. 05:40:58 FareWell [n=Fare@cpe-72-224-57-255.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:41:01 -!- DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-226-31-221.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:41:12 Besides, I find SBCL's error messages to be much more informative. 05:41:15 or someone with a better understanding of SLIME than me :) 05:41:36 Hm. You know, that's an idea, because I can post a message on this to the slime-dev mailing list. 05:41:39 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-205-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:41:43 Hadn't thought of that before. 05:41:57 hi 05:41:58 Yeah, that would probably be much quicker. 05:42:09 Hi. 05:42:32 any debian expert around? 05:42:34 Ok, I'll try that route. I have a hunch that SBCL won't have this particular problem once it gets working. 05:42:41 Sorry, not me. 05:42:45 I'm on Windows XP. 05:43:22 FareWell: Sorry, not me. 05:44:05 <_3b> you will probably need to patch sbcl or slime for use on XP (aside from the output to inferior-lisp problem, which you still might see) 05:44:18 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:44:25 -!- vy` is now known as vy 05:45:14 _3b: Definitely so, because it didn't work in the default state. 05:45:56 _3b: Okay, so I'll try asking on slime-dev. 05:46:10 sunwukong: Thanks for the help. 05:46:29 DekuDekuplex: no problem 05:46:43 Later, then. Bye for now. 05:46:47 bye 05:46:58 -!- DekuDekuplex [n=chatzill@KD210249053249.ec-userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has left #lisp 05:49:25 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:50:02 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-157-232.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 05:52:02 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 05:52:52 ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.58] has joined #lisp 05:52:54 -!- ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.58] has left #lisp 05:52:55 ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.58] has joined #lisp 05:52:57 -!- ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.58] has left #lisp 05:53:21 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has quit ["leaving"] 05:54:28 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.255.239] has joined #lisp 05:56:18 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.139.166] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:02:57 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-129-66.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["leaving"] 06:03:28 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:04:16 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-129-66.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:29 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:04:40 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 06:05:26 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@201.102.59.252] has quit [Success] 06:09:13 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Client Quit] 06:09:13 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-205-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:23 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 06:09:30 minion: logs 06:09:44 XCVB 0.3 is out, BTW -- alpha testers welcome 06:10:14 FareWell: is the idea of XCVB to completely replace ASDF? 06:10:15 -!- plage [n=user@83.224.64.17] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:10:22 eventually 06:10:32 I'll call it XCVB 1.0 then 06:10:45 (i.e. when I consider it's ready) 06:10:54 Does that require all the libraries out there that have .asd files to convert? 06:10:57 I have declared WAR on ASDF 06:11:06 Worthy target, I suppose. 06:11:08 gigamonkey, yes and no 06:11:18 XCVB can grok .asd files? 06:11:37 1- XCVB supports loading ASDF systems (at a slight loss of functionality in determinism) 06:11:38 i need something that can run swig and visual c++ and compile up lisp project and dump images 06:11:44 *gigamonkey* once considered writing an ASDF replacement called AOEU 06:11:59 2- there is an automated process to migrate packages from ASDF to XCVB (works in simple cases) 06:12:00 (The Dvorak version) 06:12:22 gigamonkey, you Dvorak user! 06:13:13 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.254.137] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:14:04 jmbr [n=jmbr@160.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 06:14:26 FareWell: Will XCVB 1.0 support versioned deps? 06:15:02 p_l, 1.0 won't, since that's not necessary to do better than ASDF 06:15:07 -!- gzip4_ [n=xxx@ws102.zone134.zaural.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:15:14 maybe version 2 will, if you help :) 06:15:16 I guess my real question is this: if I started working on a 2nd edition of PCL in the next few months, are you going to have sufficiently killed ASDF that I should write about XCVB instead? 06:15:29 gigamonkey, hopefully 06:15:42 that's the idea, at least 06:15:54 I haven't really been paying attention--is there evidence that you're getting traction? 06:15:54 I hope to have v1.0 before the end of summer 06:16:14 the only evidence is that ITA is having two interns work on it this summer 06:16:55 and that during this week of "vacation", I've finally got something that runs AND supports multiple builds and/or asdf systems at once. 06:16:56 Might they do things like submit XCVB file to maintainers of various Lisp libs? 06:17:06 uh? 06:17:32 oh, I see. 06:17:34 I.e. so-and-so has written a popular Lisp library. You (or the interns) submit a patch which provides ... 06:17:35 Well, maybe. 06:17:51 After we have XCVB 1.0, I hope we can do that. 06:18:13 Hmmm. Part of my theory of a PCL 2nd ed. includes doing a big update of Lispbox and including a bunch of libraries. 06:18:25 that's good. 06:18:31 I suppose I could provide XCVB files with those libs myself. 06:18:38 that would be great 06:18:52 I already have a tool to migrate ASDF systems to XCVB, one at a time. 06:19:01 Of course I don't know yet if Apress is interested in 2nd ed. 06:19:12 Everybody needs to promise to buy lots of copies. 06:19:32 I should update it to take superseding of ASDF dependencies into account 06:19:36 i hope it displaces the iron python book at barnes and noble 06:19:55 -!- dys [n=dys`@p5B31707E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:20:16 manic12: eh? 06:20:24 *manic12* bought a copy of gigamonkey's first book 06:20:36 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl710.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 06:20:46 ITA bought a whole bunch of copies 06:20:51 of 1st ed 06:21:16 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 06:21:22 Yes. I saw them when I was staying with Weinreb 06:21:53 *p_l* hopes to force XCVB 1.0 into supporting versioned deps in next two weeks :P 06:21:53 FareWell: Isn't it possible to generate a build plan with asdf? If so, couldn't you use asdf itself to "parse" asd files, and then just look at the build plan? 06:21:55 you saw those that weren't checked out on people's individual desks 06:21:58 One annoying thing is Apress has a tiered royalty scheme where the % goes up as you sell more copies. But a new edition starts all over again. 06:22:39 tcr: if you can make sense of the asdf, you might as well migrate the system 06:22:57 and sometimes you can't because people use all kind of extensions and tricks 06:23:21 Have done any survey of how many libs out there use extensions and tricks? 06:23:23 Right that's my point. With a special method combination, you could collect all method's bodies basically 06:23:24 gigamonkey, what if it's a "revision" ? 06:23:52 I'm not sure what that would be. Basically you can make small changes in a new "printing". 06:24:02 Or you do big changes in a new "edition". 06:24:03 gigamonkey, enough important ones that all-out automation is not for tomorrow 06:24:13 Such as? 06:24:19 cl-ppcre 06:24:30 Yeah, that's an important one. 06:24:40 most systems are pretty simple and automatically migratable 06:24:48 I need to improve on the migration tool, though 06:24:58 or get the interns to do it 06:25:33 Hmmm. Maybe I have an old version of cl-ppcre but I don't see anything weird in it's .asd files. 06:25:47 soemraws [n=soemraws@ip98-185-236-17.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:09 tcr: asdf build plans don't tell you about dependencies. And they lie because people put magic things inside methods. 06:26:48 gigamonkey, well, cl-ppcre-unicode depends on cl-unicode that at build time generates files using cl-ppcre 06:27:06 that are then compiled as lisp files 06:27:10 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.140.209] has joined #lisp 06:27:10 #!@#$% 06:27:25 which asdf doesn't really support 06:27:36 but makes do 06:27:54 What a mess. 06:28:03 welcome to my world 06:28:47 of course, I'll have to support a way in XCVB to do cleanly stuff that becomes messy with ASDF 06:28:48 In the extreme version of my Lispbox fantasies I actually mash all the good libs into one big unified library with consistent packages names, etc. 06:28:55 npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 06:29:07 gigamonkey, XCVB might help you with that a little bit 06:29:12 ooo one big lib? gimme! 06:29:19 Some of that stuff would be tidier if you just treated everything as one big ball of mud. 06:29:27 lakedenma [n=irchon@cpe-075-181-164-113.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:29:29 Gertm: you serious or ironic? 06:29:56 *gigamonkey* has drunk a bit too much beer celebrating turning in most of Coders at Work to be sure. 06:32:02 gigamonkey: that lisp that you use in PCL is it sbcl? 06:32:24 Davse_Bamse: I used Allegro when writing the book. 06:32:25 gigamonkey: how real is 2ed of PCL? As in should we start preparing suggestions/comments/contributions? :D 06:32:35 gigamonkey: ok great 06:32:39 Though I'm not sure there's much that would give it away. 06:32:48 p_l: well, I'm thinking it'd be a good idea. 06:33:02 I've got to finish Coders at Work and then talk to Apress about it. 06:33:10 i use sbcl or clozurecl on the mac (mainly those two rolled in without trouble) 06:33:23 gigamonkey: then maybe something like "Advanced Practical Common Lisp"? 06:33:45 p_l: It would be called More Practical Common Lisp. 06:33:51 In deference to minion. 06:33:55 minion: chant 06:34:06 *gigamonkey* is sad that minion seems to be dead 06:34:09 gigamonkey: nice title. 06:34:26 Can I suggest an, IMHO, important chapter? 06:34:39 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:34:43 However, the sad fact of life is I suspect that the work/$$$ ratio of a 2nd ed. of PCL might be higher than writing a whole new book. 06:34:45 Suggest away. 06:34:56 CFFI 06:34:58 Or is that lower. 06:34:59 Yeah. 06:35:00 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["off"] 06:35:06 CFFI + maybe SWIG 06:35:06 -!- soemraws [n=soemraws@ip98-185-236-17.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:35:10 Yeah. 06:35:30 not mature enough 06:35:43 manic12: CFFI? 06:35:47 manic12: which CFFI or CFFI+SWIG? 06:35:48 -!- lakedenma [n=irchon@cpe-075-181-164-113.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:35:49 cffi swig 06:36:20 allegro ffi/swig is killer tho 06:36:32 Sure, SWIG isn't mature, but it's practical. Requires a little hand-holding, but greatly speeded up my venture into FFI 06:36:47 manic12: Except that Allegro isn't available to everyone 06:36:52 swig is getting mature 06:36:59 cffi is mature 06:37:09 swig + cffi needs work 06:37:22 swig + cffi isn't practical imho 06:37:23 Is the fate of CFFI+SWIG in the hands of CFFI developers or SWIG developers or someone else? 06:37:50 somebody will eventually do it 06:38:07 anyway, my opinion is that chapter on CFFI itself would be *very* important, as it would greatly cut into "but are there libraries?" question. Swig can be added as "nice thing but be warned" 06:38:39 genworks is interested in a swig of smlib, but they want a cffi version and to do that they may have to hack the cffi swig module 06:39:09 just do cffi by itself 06:39:45 make a footnote about swig 06:40:45 "swig can be used to automate generation of cffi wrappers from c header files" 06:42:48 well, who knows, I might just as well write an appendix about using Swig and send it for inclusion, royalty-free :P 06:43:21 that would be nice :P 06:43:55 Swig is behind 90% of published TokyoCabinet binding code 06:44:08 (approximated - it's probably a bigger number) 06:44:10 you know what would be easier? 06:44:17 ? 06:44:47 hack a program to convert the lisp bindings generated from allegro swig to be cffi 06:44:59 and just use the allegro module 06:46:07 manic12: that would be more like implementing portable version of allegro FFI on top of CFFI :) 06:46:31 yeah 06:46:56 and sure, it would be great thing, but I think way harder :) 06:47:07 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:11 p_l bid on it for genworks 06:47:23 genworks? 06:47:37 www.genworks.com 06:48:25 front page is sure buzzword-compatible 06:48:42 you gotta do what you gotta do i guess 06:48:56 yeah 06:49:21 i wish i could *focus* tonight 06:49:39 lately if I get more than 7 hrs sleep I'm useless 06:50:17 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.255.239] has quit [Success] 06:51:10 I'm trying to figure out an efficient way to render the history of this windowed lisp-listener stream 06:51:13 *p_l* has an exam in ~4hrs. Doesn't know anything 06:51:44 <_3b> what sort of history do you have that could be drawn inefficiently enough to matter? :p 06:51:54 maybe you should stu..blow it off 06:52:23 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:52:38 aerique [n=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 06:52:44 manic12: kinda to late to really study 06:53:28 when you get into the text wrapping and window resizing and scrolling and a few other features I'm adding then it gets hairy 06:53:54 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:54:10 <_3b> so separate layout and rendering, then rendering is easy, and you can put off good layout til later :) 06:54:28 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:54 <_3b> especially if you don't mind monospaced text 06:55:18 _3b that's what I'm doing 06:55:32 my brain is still not where it should be 06:55:45 *_3b* has been having that problem lately too :( 06:56:27 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:56:50 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 06:58:06 btw, does SBCL require executable stack? Or stack accessible as part of memory, at all? 06:59:21 i hate it when I'm too tired to be productive but too awake to sleep 06:59:54 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 07:01:39 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 07:02:27 Goodnight folks. 07:02:32 gigamonkey: night 07:04:35 anyone here done work (or know of work done) on using sphinx (the search engine) from CL? 07:05:23 I'm thinking now with the newest version I'll just use clsql to talk sql to the search daemon... but maybe if there's already an interface to the API that would be better... 07:05:49 -!- getha is now known as thijso 07:07:41 *thijso* is off to work now, but I'll be back when I get there... 07:07:49 p_l: ask on the sbcl list, but afaik, no and yes. 07:08:01 FareWell: right... thanks 07:08:28 thijso: I think sphinx' search options (with conditions, filters and other good things) doesn't look like a great match for sql 07:09:19 p_l: if you care about performance, you're using a faster 64-bit machine where there is no separate stack segment, anyway 07:09:42 I've had pretty good results with the non-sql-like sphinx ruby library called ultrasphinx, but am not aware of any libraries for cl 07:10:00 FareWell: Well, I'm playing with MMIX design, which has register stack, not in-memory stack :-) 07:10:15 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:10:18 how deep is that? 07:10:30 MMIX doesn't exist, anyway 07:10:37 FareWell: MMIX1.0 defines 512 64bit registers 07:10:47 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:52 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-78-239.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:10:57 FareWell: Well, my plan is to build it :) 07:10:59 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:11:11 antifuchs: yeah, but the new version talks a sql-like dialect and acts as a sql server, so in principle you don't need to interface to the API anymore.. . 07:11:19 good morning 07:11:21 but I have to look into that further.. 07:11:24 antifuchs, hi! 07:11:33 thijso: yeah, I wonder if that is a good interface 07:11:33 anyway, too late for work already... be back later 07:11:37 thijso: (: 07:11:41 hi Fare! 07:11:49 mvilleneuve, antifuchs: morning 07:11:51 hi antifuchs ! 07:12:08 interns come next week to work on XCVB -- I'm excited 07:12:16 that's great! 07:13:30 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 07:14:14 one of them might be working on asdf-dependency-grovel 07:14:15 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:15:17 (and/or make it into a xcvb-dependency-grovel) 07:15:22 yay! 07:17:16 still in the UK? 07:21:03 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-205-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:22:33 -!- FareWell [n=Fare@cpe-72-224-57-255.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:22:35 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-95-46.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:37 hmmm 07:22:46 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@19.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:23:41 don't you hate it when people ask you to fix their computers 07:24:12 manic12: that's why you should get some signs saying "No, I won't fix your computer!" 07:24:50 actually "fix your own damn computer!" is more my style 07:25:32 do people do that to you too? 07:25:52 then they say, "i'll pay you!" 07:25:53 manic12: and then complain when something goes wrong 07:26:02 and no, usually they don't offer me payment 07:26:55 manic12: you're a "computer guy" aren't you? people will ask you for everything, from typesetting their resumes, to doing their taxes to cleaning their machines of porn 07:26:58 most people with driver problems usually reconsider when I name an hourly rate (: 07:27:06 manic12: ask for an exorbitant sum and they'll get the hint! 07:27:23 (or not, which is not exactly a bad thing) 07:27:26 that's what i do 07:27:49 i say it's cheaper to buy a macbook than to hire me to fix your daughter's laptop 07:27:53 my girlfriend has a habit of finding the most random fucktard "computer guy" and him to me as a peer. 07:28:09 ^introduces him 07:28:20 nah, if they are willing to pay from beginning, I'm not stingy - it's a business transaction then so it goes on completely different rules... if they pester me about it not as clients... £300/h sounds nice 07:29:22 i want to get this stupid software written, i can't take 8 hours of quality time to devote to watching xp boot 07:30:08 *p_l* will do some hardware repairs for free if they are interesting. Chances for that are near-nil, though 07:30:42 you have to love headhunters too 07:31:18 manic12: I had only one case of crossing paths with headhunter 07:31:28 weirdest experience that summer 07:31:34 you tell them: I am writing cad software. So they ask, can you make prints with autocad? 07:31:43 ahahahaha 07:31:49 I had more luck :D 07:32:14 *p_l* got an email from "Google Engineering" back between 2nd and 3rd year of High School 07:32:23 nice 07:32:24 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 07:32:28 Good morning. 07:32:54 wow, for once someone says good morning and it's actually, well, morning! 07:33:18 Glad you like it. 07:33:38 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 07:33:39 manic12: well, some of us *are* near GMT ;-) 07:33:52 most of you 07:34:11 I am talking live from ELS thanks to the Eduroam network. 07:34:27 you: I write software. headhunter: so how are your typing skills? 07:35:12 plage: it actually works? I doubt capabilities of contemporary uni networks. They seem to have replaced BOFHs with suits 07:35:13 manic12: Headhunter is right. I see people wasting an hour or more per day by now knowing how to type. 07:35:43 p_l: Yesterday it was not so good, but for now it seems to be working. 07:36:12 cracki [n=cracki@46-030.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:36:13 p_l: Eduroam is a great idea. Now it just has to become widely adopted. 07:36:27 plage: and actually configured properly. 07:36:39 *p_l* is using eduroam in uni, too 07:36:42 yeah, I had some problems with that initially. 07:37:45 *sigh*; I have a site to launch in 2 days. the code is ready, but i might have just burned myself out coding and now i can't even be bothered to write the text for the html pages .. 07:37:56 also, idiots who mandate filtering through proxy on eduroam networks... Sure, 40GBit/s is nice, but I'd like that IPv6 tunnel and UDP, thankyouverymuch 07:38:25 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@160.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:38:58 dunno, my uni's eduroam requires the authentication scheme from hell 07:39:06 p_l: I guess things like that are the reason I had to remotely long in to Bx in order to use IRC. 07:39:08 i.e. some wpa-enterprise 07:39:49 guaqua: WPA Enterprise is pretty easy to setup (as long as you are not using NetworkManager, as it's beyond mastery when it comes to fucking up network access) 07:39:55 hello plage 07:40:03 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:40:09 hey mvilleneuve 07:40:22 p_l: i edit wpa_supplicant.conf by hand :) 07:40:24 plage: how's ELS? 07:41:04 mvilleneuve: Very good so far. Unfortunately I missed Krystof's tutorial on SBCL yesterday, but that was for reasons beyond my control. 07:41:19 guaqua: there's a problem, though, that at least some eduroam networks forget to put certificate on public network, and certain enterprise-class devices won't believe certs send by auth server :/ 07:42:33 (like Nokia E-series) 07:42:53 mvilleneuve: where are you from? 07:43:51 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-11-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:44:28 what is this new convention where people are putty a dot (#\.) before method and slot names? 07:44:36 s/putty/putting/ 07:44:53 fusss: Never seen it. Where did you see it? 07:45:10 manic12: Bordeaux, France 07:45:15 ah 07:45:38 i saw that being used instead of gensyms in CLX 07:45:42 and i kinda like it 07:45:45 plage: cll article "CLOS question re :around method calling sequence"; and cl-terrace 07:45:52 fusss: clojure influence? 07:45:58 nope 07:46:02 p_l: too soon for that 07:46:10 CLX predates clojure by... umm... 20 years? 07:46:20 yeah, I know 07:46:49 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:47:02 it's just that fusss mentioned "new convention" ^^; 07:47:17 so few things on this planet are new... 07:47:35 more like nothing is new 07:47:36 most of the new things are well forgot old things 07:48:44 this is a dotful file http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=bpm-cl-terrace;a=headblob;f=/cl-terrace/core.lisp 07:49:04 *p_l* met with the fact that nothing is new in both CS and creative writing 07:50:25 kinda takes time to understand that no matter how original your idea seems to you, it can be considered a reshaping of something that exists already :-) 07:50:28 there's always something new, otherwise the fact wouldn't surface again 07:50:59 p_l: you know CS? I have a virus on my laptop and it runs real slow, can you fix it? I'll pay you $5 07:51:20 manic12: $5/minute 07:51:33 cheap bastard 07:51:42 is there a sourceforge project for the virus? we could go and optimize it. 07:52:07 yes, profile the virus 07:52:22 there was, in fact, such a tool 07:52:35 fusss would know 07:52:46 a blackhat tool that scanned your virus to see if an AV product could detect it 07:52:49 *p_l* had an idea for a windows worm that would forcibly upgrade everyone to IPv6 07:53:16 p_l: also, upgrade my toaster to a pizzeria. 07:53:34 fusss: that's in v10, when it gets nanofab interface 07:54:44 but worm that would do whatever possible (including tunneling, NAT traversal etc.) to setup v6 connectivity would be... interesting :) 07:54:50 everytime I think about writing this layout thingy i feel a wave of unmotivation 07:55:23 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:55:29 i wonder if it has to do with the fact that it will be the third time I've written it 07:56:26 hmm... I thought the lisp-unit library was asdf-install-able, it looks like I was wrong 07:56:42 what lisp-unit library? 07:56:49 is there a de-facto standard library for unit tests nowadays? 07:56:53 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has joined #lisp 07:56:54 *manic12* wants to know 07:57:10 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 07:57:12 manic12: http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/readings/lisp-unit.html 07:57:15 hello 07:57:30 hello fe[nl]ix 07:57:33 d'oh 07:57:33 hi mvilleneuve 07:57:45 I thought it was going to be kilograms and meters 07:58:57 hello fe[nl]ix :) 07:59:09 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:59:22 p_l, what are you going to do when you get out of school? you're probably overqualified to do anything 07:59:26 hi plage :D 07:59:51 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-65-75.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:00:11 ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has joined #lisp 08:03:42 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 08:05:59 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 08:08:59 fe[nl]ix: are you using the Eduroam network or the local university network? 08:09:12 unimib 08:09:58 so what's going on at the milan thing? 08:10:06 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 08:10:31 plage: they're awfully paranoid. 3 certificates(password-protected) to use WPA2 08:10:35 for mere guests 08:10:54 manic12: I feel overqualified already 08:11:09 you will have to run your own business then 08:11:25 fe[nl]ix: Yeah. I managed to get Eduroam to work finally. 08:11:34 i run my own business, I just happen to be taking a loss right now 08:12:00 *manic12* doesn't want to use the term "unemployed" 08:13:55 manic12: unfortunately, going to university after tasting what even entry-level hitech job is, makes it hard to accept jobs like "cleaner" or "waiter" 08:14:31 manic12: there's a *very* impressing presentation 08:14:38 personally I would rather do landscaping than autocad drafting 08:15:08 a portuguese company who writes planning software 08:15:21 Interesting stuff! 08:15:28 is this on a website somewhere? 08:15:50 hello 08:15:55 The company name is SISCOG, so I imagine yes. 08:15:58 hello MrSpec 08:16:37 no the conference itself, what is it called? european lisp seminar or something? 08:16:47 symposium 08:16:50 manic12: they've been in business since '82 08:16:51 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:16:55 started on lisp machines 08:16:59 cool stuff 08:17:13 adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has joined #lisp 08:17:14 manic12: siscog.pt 08:17:28 fe[nl]ix: He is looking for the els2009 website 08:17:37 oh 08:17:43 http://european-lisp-symposium.org/ 08:17:47 if i had a passport and knew about it i would have gone 08:18:02 manic12: They do give out those if you ask nicely! 08:18:26 yes, i just procrastinate 08:18:42 fe[nl]ix: perhaps the next product should be a talk-scheduling system! :) 08:18:48 lol 08:19:16 fe[nl]ix: any mechanical cad hackers? 08:20:43 I think that's what Jim Newton from Cadence is doing. He has a talk this afternoon. 08:20:50 Understanding the Dynamics of Complex Lisp Programs sounds interesting 08:21:19 don't think so 08:21:23 has there been something on distributed computing? 08:22:10 cadence works on digital circuit CAD, not mechanical 08:22:29 nite all 08:22:30 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-95-46.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 08:23:42 *p_l* is interested in nanoscale CAD/CAM/CAE, but that's a song of the future :D 08:23:51 fe[nl]ix: Ah! OK. 08:24:15 i've got this stream that when I attach it to a lisp listener, I have made it such that before the prompt is printed out it takes the i/o buffers and sticks them in an output-record and pushes that on the history 08:25:14 but i know that when I do things like (y-or-n-p) or even (read) it will mess up the sequence of the history layout 08:25:16 Someone should tell them that that spelling changed from LISP to Lisp a couple of decades ago. 08:25:43 tell who? 08:25:52 The speakers 08:26:02 now there's another LISP, thanks to some poor naming ideas in IETF or IANA 08:26:04 they pronounce it so? 08:26:05 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has quit ["bye"] 08:26:23 stassats: L-I-S-P? No! 08:27:22 Lima India Sierra Papa 08:27:24 ? 08:27:34 never ending war against LISP 08:27:42 minion: what does LISP stand for? 08:27:56 minion is broken 08:27:58 list processting 08:28:09 -!- jmbr_ is now known as jmbr 08:28:09 lists protesting ;-) 08:28:14 minion is on vacation 08:28:18 >_> 08:28:35 Lisp stands for career suicide 08:28:35 Who can restart minion? 08:28:38 Less Is Top use Paratheres 08:29:04 manic12: good one 08:29:41 p_l: so think about this, if I have a dual channel stream, how do i keep my output-records showing the true order of the output? 08:30:01 manic12: is this a CLIM question? 08:30:06 no 08:30:28 read my post from 24 after the hour 08:31:35 unfortunately my log extends only to talk about FFI 08:31:45 and my head is full of psychology 08:32:00 6 minutes ago 08:32:32 hmmm... I don't have an answer to that 08:33:12 i would think to monitor state changes of the stream from read to write, but there isn't such a "state", you can read and write to the stream at the same time 08:33:19 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:29 because it's dual channel 08:34:22 i've determined that's why I haven't been productive, because I didn't want to write a lot of complicated code on top of something flawed 08:34:39 Coffee! Finally! 08:34:39 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:57 yay 08:35:09 pass me a cup 08:35:33 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:36:43 -!- xan [n=xan@9.Red-83-42-12.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:36:44 common graphics has sidestepped these issues by letting windows handle the history 08:36:49 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6F686.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:45 coffee? pass me an IV 08:38:05 and windows does a crappy job at it, you have to do ten mousestrokes more than you really need to to select text for instance 08:39:20 xan [n=xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 08:39:45 do you think I should put a lock on the stream to keep it from being written to while being read from and vice versa? 08:40:14 then I would have "state changes" and I could put things on the history in the proper order 08:40:51 or maybe just use one buffer and maintain marks 08:41:11 qebab [n=finnrobi@unicorn.nnordmark.com] has joined #lisp 08:41:20 anyone, anyone? 08:41:44 -!- free_thinker [n=willijar@eas-nw709pc01.aston.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:43:53 is #lisp for noob questions (and sbcl devel chatter) only? 08:44:50 manic12: I guess ELS took those who could answer you 08:45:28 apparently so 08:46:13 i would think I could timestamp stream i/o, but where do you put the timestamps? 08:46:21 -!- rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Rakista has left the planet"] 08:46:30 that could be a lot of timestamps 08:48:48 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:50:52 shit, this is a pain 08:52:31 i could write my own repl which does i/o to the stream in the form of objects instead of chars 08:53:11 <_3b> just write a terminal emulator and display a console emacs in it :) 08:53:14 but good repls are much more complicated than (loop do (print (eval (read)))) 08:53:39 _3b: I like that idea! 08:54:28 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [] 08:54:54 i was wanting to do expandable/collapsable r-e-p interactions though 08:55:15 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-251.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:55:44 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 08:56:02 so you could easily look at something two dozen prompts back while working at the current prompt 08:56:10 <_3b> yeah, something actually integrated would be nicer, would be fun to be able to type in a command, then click an object in the world to use as an argument 08:56:33 exactly 08:57:05 i don't think i can do that with Franz standard top-level 08:58:07 but maybe with enough hooks and around methods i can 08:59:21 _3b, what would you like to see in a totally killer lisp listener in a solid modeler window? 08:59:22 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:59:38 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:00:02 <_3b> hard to say, would depend on the rest of the UI i think 09:00:42 eventually I'm wanting to plug it into mirai as i have said 09:01:17 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@ip70-162-187-21.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:35 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 09:01:46 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-26-1.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:02:05 manic12: you are working on a solid modeler? 09:02:14 manic12: I would love integration with slicing software (: 09:02:21 Larry Malone has talked about wanting to add Symbolics-ish features to mirai 09:02:22 (for the purposes of printing) 09:02:33 hello antifuchs :) 09:02:37 hi fe[nl]ix (: 09:02:40 antifuchs: sort of 09:02:54 antifuchs: I swigged a C++ solid modeler 09:02:55 *_3b* needs to learn more about mirai one of these days 09:03:03 manic12: sweet! which is it? 09:03:20 _3d: email Larry and ask him for a Beta of Mirai 09:03:27 (mirai?) 09:03:27 SMLib 09:03:30 ah 09:03:46 NLib too 09:04:13 ok, that looks cool 09:04:36 antifuchs: I intend to deploy SMLib as a plugin to Mirai 09:05:08 then I have a KBE kernel too which is going into the mix 09:05:25 how much does mirai cost these days? 09:06:11 I don't know, when I got 1.1 it was about $5k 09:06:20 oookay (: 09:06:41 but I don't expect it to be that much once it's out of testing again 09:07:09 because right now it's just M-Geo 09:07:12 it seems most modeller kernel vendors have extremely weird terms for getting the source to their "open source" products 09:07:13 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:07:18 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 09:07:30 adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has joined #lisp 09:07:56 mega1 [n=mega@3e44ac4b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:08:08 SMS just doesn't want you to compete with them with their own product 09:08:18 there's open cascade with their "have to register" website and non-dfsg license, then smlib which doesn't even have the license online (and you have to send them mail to get it apparently...) 09:08:38 that is an interesting definition of open source software. 09:08:57 smlib is like $2500/month or something like that 09:09:06 uh. ok. 09:09:11 manic12: was it easy to swig those C++ libs? 09:09:16 yes 09:09:27 but I added some extra features 09:09:59 funny how these stupid terms and fears make me just want to crush their product by creating something better (: 09:10:00 I had an awful time trying to swig Ogre a year ago, but that probably tells more about me :( 09:10:40 antifuchs: long ago I wanted to write my own solid modeler in Lisp and then I got wise about just how hard it is to do all of that 09:11:03 manic12: right. 09:11:05 aerique: I used the ACL module 09:12:04 these guys have been working on SMLib since the mid 90's 09:13:55 it's really better this way because now I'm starting to think that Common Lisp is too mutable to write a solid modeler in directly anyway 09:14:31 there is no way to keep your end users from breaking it at runtime 09:15:06 package locks maybe 09:15:11 with your own dsl + repl ought to separate users from app code no? 09:15:29 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@19.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:15:50 I would just run a CL solid modeler in a separate process 09:16:08 and use some protocol to talk to it from another CL 09:16:11 *_3b* would just assume users that break the lib deserve a broken lib :p 09:16:35 riiiiiiight. their source code distribution scheme is even more braindamaged than that of open cascade. 09:16:37 interesting. 09:16:53 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-129-40.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Success] 09:16:54 one defmethod in the wrong place could cause a bridge to collapse 09:17:10 it's not necessairly more broken than emacs users modifying the editor. it /can/ be an advantage as well. 09:17:38 perhaps we need something like the infrastructure available in .NET - you can have multiple, separate applications in one VM, which can interact etc., but it creates a visible "divide" between those areas (and afaik you can lock them down) 09:17:47 -!- antoni [n=user@236.pool85-53-32.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:17:50 drafael [n=tapio@118.90.133.5] has joined #lisp 09:18:04 <_3b> yeah, sandboxed VMs would be nice 09:18:05 antoni [n=user@85.53.32.236] has joined #lisp 09:18:24 you sell three different kinds of license then, one for the source to the solid modeler itself, one for the kbe development environment and one for the point and click user 09:18:29 I doubt it can be done in portable way, though 09:18:44 (unless a standard is defined and implementations actually abide by it) 09:19:06 CL needs to evolve 09:19:53 antifuchs: what is wrong with SMS' licensing scheme exactly? 09:20:00 I'm trying to reinvent the means of resource creation and distribution here. this is no time to think about stupid trivialities such as money 09:21:23 rather, think in terms of coils of thermoplastic (-: 09:22:49 manic12: I'm objecting to the way they're advertising their code as "open source", but seem to be trying to make it as hard as possible for a potential user to get it 09:22:49 so I'm stuck on writing this listener, because I know I can write a crappy one - i did that - now i want to write a really good one 09:23:13 if you don't want people to be using this aspect of the product, don't advertise it. 09:23:18 yeah "open source" is misleading to some peopl 09:23:20 e 09:23:38 also, it's a trademark and I hope they get sued for using it (: 09:23:55 i'll tell em that 09:24:06 tee hee 09:24:30 they have been really cool to me though, they really want to see this app succeed 09:24:41 I wish you good luck 09:24:47 thanks 09:25:14 I wish I could have been productive tonight 09:25:25 I'm just annoyed that, in all, I've wasted an afternoon trying to download and integrate software that has unusable licensing terms 09:25:46 which? 09:26:05 open cascade. 09:26:10 ah 09:26:30 I just like to use it for comparison 09:26:38 the site requires you to register to download the source (which every single user of my software would have to do). and then it's not dfsg-free 09:26:41 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.249.144] has joined #lisp 09:26:46 you'd think that in 2009, people would have learned 09:27:02 i think it's owned by dassault now 09:27:02 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:27:02 dfsg-free? 09:27:14 adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has joined #lisp 09:27:14 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.140.209] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:27:34 debian free software guidelines 09:28:08 Joreji [n=user@42-165.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:28:16 oh, i see. 09:29:02 JohnnyL [i=crashcar@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:57 dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 09:31:13 manic12: what are you waiting to make cl evolve? type: (, d, e, f, m, a, c, r, o, space, etc... 09:31:52 i was saying that it's too mutable 09:32:28 and I have also said before that I would like to see low level support for dimensional units for cad apps 09:32:42 hahaha 09:32:55 defmacro ain't gonna help you there 09:33:53 I guess you could implement some kind of CL2 starting from CL, by writing your VM in CL and having it compile into a new kind of language... :P 09:34:26 yeah, or just change a CL implementation 09:34:48 that's off in the future though, i don't need it today 09:35:10 today I needed a layout engine for my stupid lisp listener 09:36:08 but no, p_l is thinking psychology 09:36:17 i do not follow you. why would a user change your classes? why is not a good documented and exported api sufficient for any competent user? why do you need straight jacketness which will ultimatley make the product /less/ playful and resourceful? 09:36:47 what does one need to get weblocks to work under a website? 09:37:07 because as smart as engineers are, you don't always want them tinkering with everything until they *read* the documentation 09:38:13 with cad software that makes machines that have a high kinetic energy and transport people you don't want to be wrong 09:39:12 that's what you get liability insurance for 09:39:37 well, after spending half a year with StarCCM+, i can say for sure that it's not like the java-way is even remotely better. 09:39:56 why can't lisp be used for a CAD system? it doesn't seem impossible to add a datatype and define some operations on it? 09:40:09 i didn't say that 09:41:00 i said if I were to have a solid modeler written in Lisp, I would protect it from both the point and click users and the kbe programmers 09:41:00 madnificent: autocad/autolisp 09:41:35 ecraven: the channel implies Commen Lisp but, yes 09:41:36 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-157-232.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 09:41:52 i meant that as a comment that lisp can (and has been) used in CAD systems 09:42:16 ecraven: you are missing some of the conversation i think 09:42:45 ecraven: I am a mechanical engineer and a lisp programmer 09:42:49 *madnificent* too, apparantly it is much longer 09:43:01 manic12 cool 09:43:02 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-17-177.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:43:45 I have been hacking lisp long enough to see the problems/ potential problems with writing a large cad app in pure CL and deploying it in a naive way 09:43:45 -!- antoni [n=user@85.53.32.236] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:43:46 -!- Gertm [n=user@mail.dzine.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:44:32 essentially, CL is so flexible, you can break important algorithms in subtle ways without even realizing it 09:45:16 it's like machinery, you have to put guards around the gears or people will stick their hands in there 09:46:44 so my point was that it is just as well to have the solid modeling kernel written in C++ at this stage 09:46:48 plage: try to do that with CLIM 09:47:04 build a different package system on top of CL? Or even just use the current one... using unexported symbols is the equivalent of cutting your finger... that's clear 09:47:52 fe[nl]ix: Yeah, we need to improve the Closure layout algorithm first. 09:48:35 is els finished? 09:48:42 madnificent: no 09:48:44 nope 09:49:01 then... how come you are here? 09:49:05 madnificent: plage and I are a few seats away 09:49:23 ah 09:49:26 we're in the auditorium 09:49:33 :P 09:49:33 *madnificent* gets a coffee and tries to return to the real world 09:49:42 fe[nl]ix: Some people *have* been thinking of an HTML backend for McCLIM, and I was in fact promised the code for what they did, but then it never happened. 09:50:04 yeah, that person is right here :D 09:50:22 carrying the mic 09:50:39 fe[nl]ix: Well, I was thinking of the SRI people. 09:51:06 krystof too was talking about that 09:51:20 But I don't think he did anything about it. 09:52:03 SRI as in sri.com ? 09:52:20 Stanford Research Institute 09:53:22 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-157-232.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:54:10 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:38 there is probably no good reason for me to be awake 09:55:35 is it lunch time there? 09:56:11 elias` [n=me@resnet-pat-254.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:56:12 almost 09:57:17 fe[nl]ix: Nothing organized or paid for for lunch today right? 09:57:34 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.143.138] has joined #lisp 09:57:45 ok, cya people 09:57:47 plage: did you speak to suzanne about that? 09:57:55 (the html mcclim backend) 09:58:57 antifuchs: Remind me who suzanne is? 09:59:25 one of the co-authors of the paper describing SRI's html backend for franz clim (: 09:59:47 antifuchs: I guess I didn't. 09:59:51 ah 09:59:51 plage: I suppose the lunch should be organized 10:00:08 -!- galdor_ [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:00:38 fe[nl]ix: I am not sure I can spend 1.5h downstairs in the sun again today. 10:00:50 if they have an html backend for mcclim lying around, I'd love to see it, too (: 10:03:06 I suspect it was not for McCLIM but for some commercial CLIM. It could be what I see on the SRI web page: http://www.ai.sri.com/~pkarp/clim-www/tool.html 10:05:24 ah, ok. I think they still have something like it running. 10:08:15 looks fancy 10:08:18 Gertm [n=user@mail.dzine.be] has joined #lisp 10:08:54 OK, who was asking for CAD stuff before? 10:09:38 jao [n=jao@210.Red-83-36-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:20 Anyway, I'll be back later. Time to turn this baby off and go to lunch in a few minutes. I might be back in 2h or so. 10:10:52 plage: manic12 :) 10:13:48 afk - going for exams 10:14:00 good luck p_l 10:14:16 thx 10:16:14 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.249.144] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:17:50 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:21:03 -!- jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:22:33 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118.90.133.5] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:22:49 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 10:26:55 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:28:42 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Success] 10:29:20 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 10:29:52 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 10:33:15 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has joined #lisp 10:37:35 -!- jao [n=jao@210.Red-83-36-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:45:50 jao [n=jao@61.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:08 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 10:47:10 -!- dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit [No route to host] 10:47:19 Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:49:59 How would you guys implement something like "apply-n" so that (apply-n n f x) --> (f (f (f ...n times...(f x)...)) 10:49:59 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp011.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 10:50:48 using a macro i think 10:50:52 <_3b> (loop repeat n for x = x then (funcall f x)) ? 10:51:50 <_3b> on yeah, probably return x at the end too :p 10:52:04 _3b: Weirdo loop macro 10:52:15 Quadrescence: (defun apply-n (n f x) (if (plusp n) (apply-n (1- n) f x) (f x))) 10:52:15 Umm... (defun apply-n (n f x) (if (plusp n) (f (apply-n (1- n) f x)) (f x))) 10:52:55 vy: Now I feel stupid. >_< 10:53:15 I'll blame it on it being almost 6AM 10:55:51 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1E467.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:10 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1D790.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:59:00 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp011.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 10:59:18 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6F686.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 11:07:16 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-157-232.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:07:21 -!- gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-157-232.vologda.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 11:08:14 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 11:14:46 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:18:14 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-26-1.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["« La POO c'est bien beau, mais en C au moins on va droit au but. »"] 11:19:11 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483ACCD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:18 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:13 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:31:01 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 11:31:28 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087F0C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:39 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-9bffe6f49cbb3922] has left #lisp 11:39:00 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:42:36 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 11:43:15 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:43:20 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 11:51:25 ThomasI [n=thomas@95.89.28.59] has joined #lisp 11:52:29 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.143.138] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:54:56 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 11:59:26 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.126] has quit ["Log this!"] 11:59:28 blandest1 [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 11:59:48 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:00:35 leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:01:02 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.143.138] has joined #lisp 12:02:43 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.126] has joined #lisp 12:10:15 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:10:19 Good afternoon. 12:11:41 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:13:41 elurin [n=user@193.140.230.101] has joined #lisp 12:14:37 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.38.189] has joined #lisp 12:14:42 -!- elurin [n=user@193.140.230.101] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:16:12 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 12:17:27 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.126] has quit ["Hey everybody, let's play the reboot game"] 12:20:37 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:22:48 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 12:25:11 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:32 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:27:14 antgreen [n=Anthony@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:52 -!- Gertm [n=user@mail.dzine.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:28:02 Gertm [n=user@mail.dzine.be] has joined #lisp 12:28:30 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:29:47 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:15 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 12:30:31 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:25 sunwukong [n=vukung@125-14-81-177.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:41:16 md` [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 12:42:09 Hi guys. I want to add 'popcnt' instruction for X86-64 SBCL. 12:42:14 How do I do that? 12:42:48 do you actually have HW that supports popcnt? 12:43:02 pkhuong: I hope so :) 12:43:21 core2 duo should be enough 12:44:04 eh, crap 12:44:16 probably not - I just have ssse3 instructions 12:45:11 *cue sad trombone* 12:45:20 ok then - what I am actually doing is that I have ported clojure's persistent hash map - bagwell tries 12:45:29 antgreen1 [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:45 the performance depends really on how fast population count in fixnum is done 12:46:02 and my original code kind of sucks - performance wise 12:46:22 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:06 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:47:21 jmbr [n=jmbr@154.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:47:31 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.126] has joined #lisp 12:47:39 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:48:05 Any idea how to write this without terrible performance warning? 12:48:06 -!- jao [n=jao@61.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:48:06 (defun mask (hash shift) 12:48:07 (declare (fixnum hash shift)) 12:48:07 (logand (ash hash (- shift)) #x1f)) 12:48:10 12:48:38 SBCL says it uses combinations with cost 53 :/ 12:49:27 basically, I want right shift of the fixnum, but can't get it nicely 12:49:40 <_3b> tried ldb? 12:50:01 hmm, not really I am going to check it 12:50:24 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 12:51:15 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:51:45 <_3b> or maybe declare shift more restrictively, i'm guessing it is between 0 and 64 or so 12:52:02 no. Just checked with CPUID to make sure, and you dont have popcnt. 12:52:13 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:14 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:52:24 But there's already LOGCOUNT. 12:52:54 You can try and perform better than AMD's suggested implementation in assembler, but that's likely to require a lot of work. 12:53:06 pkhuong: excellent! 12:53:14 logcount is what I want! 12:53:18 thanks! 12:56:12 hmm, also - is there a way to know portably how many bits have fixnum? 12:56:22 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has quit ["leaving"] 12:56:26 (integer-length most-positive-fixnum) 12:56:51 thanks pkhuong 12:57:18 -!- prip_ [n=_prip@host13-135-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:57:21 foobar__ [n=_prip@host219-132-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:57:29 the problem with your function above is that the sign and the range of shift is unknown. The code has to dispatch at runtime on whether the shift is positive and negative, and then has to emulate sane behaviour for shifts >= register width. 12:59:27 peterc [n=pcaffin@emu.autons.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:04:12 ferada [n=user@f054012209.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:06:34 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@154.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:07:59 pkhuong: so how do I declare shift as always non-negative and fitting in the register? I think that can be assumed safely. 13:08:50 the same type would apply to hash - it's a result of sxhash basically 13:09:11 coderdad [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has joined #lisp 13:09:20 (declare (type (mod 64) shift)) 13:09:45 the same type definitely wouldn't be applying to hash 13:10:11 coderdad_ [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has joined #lisp 13:11:53 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:12:25 jsnell: but (mod 64) is not fixnum right? I want them to be fixnums, and positive - maybe (deftype non-negative-fixnum () `(mod ,(integer-length most-positive-fixnum))) ? 13:12:58 would that be recognized by SBCL as fixnum and work with that as unboxed value? 13:13:00 (mod 64) is an integer from 0 to 63. it's safe to say that's going to be a fixnum 13:13:13 ah, right 13:13:15 thanks 13:13:39 or if you want a negative shift, (integer -63 (0)) 13:13:57 carbocalm [n=user@204.101.159.226] has joined #lisp 13:15:03 the input is nonnegative, so (mod 64) is better I think 13:15:16 now SBCL gives no performance notes, great! 13:21:27 mm.. ash wants a smarter IR2 converter. 13:21:36 I think I'd prefer (integer 0 63) for clarity 13:22:02 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@154.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:23:16 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:23:29 Orest- [n=orest@p4FC44A59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:48 -!- Corun is now 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[n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has quit ["leaving"] 14:48:00 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-205-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:45 'llo Fade 14:48:54 -!- cracki [n=cracki@46-030.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 14:53:12 -!- free_thinker [n=willijar@eas-nw709pc01.aston.ac.uk] has left #lisp 15:00:12 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:03:18 asksol [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 15:03:21 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E463DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:05 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:04:35 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:05:54 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@12.107.74.4] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:06:28 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 15:13:23 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 15:13:29 jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:53 ferada` [n=user@f054014037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:48 -!- ferada [n=user@f054012209.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:15:33 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:39 Hello all. 15:16:17 takehiko [i=d114539f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c0a142e1f662c12b] has joined #lisp 15:16:20 helly nyef 15:16:29 this seems to have become an hello channel :) 15:16:31 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 15:16:57 Yeah, that happens sometimes. 15:17:10 At least we've mostly stopped the weekly gun-control debates. 15:18:03 yeah, at least we now know that no one should have guns ^_^ 15:18:12 And it's a relief compared to cll trolling. 15:18:41 jebus. is anybody left on cll? 15:18:46 as there is no lisp talk: I can't seem to focus... how do I solve that? 15:18:55 Fade: spammers and trolls 15:19:05 fits together 15:19:19 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:19:58 Well, in the last two weeks, there have been lisp 3 questions answered. Quite discreetly. 15:20:33 i'm tempted to fire up slrn to go look 15:20:39 phew. that passed quickly. 15:21:30 -!- takehiko [i=d114539f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c0a142e1f662c12b] has left #lisp 15:21:34 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44ac4b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:21:43 is Erik Naggum still alive? 15:21:54 aerique: AFAWK, yes. 15:22:31 Even if he didn't update his web page for 3 years. Contact info at: http://naggum.no/ 15:22:42 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:22:56 contact page was updated this month. 15:23:10 --> /whois nocebo 15:24:28 Yeah, I was about to say erik.naggum.no had been updated recently as well. Who'd have thought that? 15:27:58 -!- novaburst [i=nova@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:27:58 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:28:22 judging by the index at naggum.no he sounds very ill 15:28:27 what is wrong with him? 15:29:06 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:31:59 lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:32:03 milanj [n=milan@77.46.202.174] has joined #lisp 15:34:39 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087F0C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:22 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:36:35 Fade: no idea what exactly but he's been ill for at least a couple of years 15:39:12 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-192-99.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:36 -!- jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:39:56 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:41 -!- jleija [n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit ["leaving"] 15:41:02 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-192-99.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:41:19 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:44:46 Quote of the Day: LISP has jokingly been described as the most intelligent way to misuse a computer. I think that description a great compliment because it transmits the full flavour of liberation: it has assisted a number of our most gifted fellow humans in thinking previously impossible thoughts. 15:50:15 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 15:50:31 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit ["time to go"] 15:51:39 -!- aerique [n=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 15:52:59 ThomasIl [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 16:01:05 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:01:16 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 16:03:30 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087F0C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:03:44 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host247-218-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 16:08:54 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:08:57 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 16:15:07 deepfire_ [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 16:15:44 -!- deepfire_ [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Client Quit] 16:16:35 -!- xan [n=xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:18:56 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:23:11 -!- asksol [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit [Client Quit] 16:23:59 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 16:24:48 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 16:25:06 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:26:36 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has quit ["Valete!"] 16:28:17 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@125-14-81-177.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit ["bye"] 16:28:22 *_3b* wonders why emacs or slime thinks a CASE clause with a key starting with :def should be indented oddly 16:28:49 ugh. having learned virtually from manic12's mistakes, I now want to kludge up an opengl lisp listener. 16:28:53 Because forms starting with def should be indented oddly. 16:29:02 Heh. 16:29:35 hefner: This morning I dug out my old dungeon crawl stuff because I was looking for a usable X event loop to tie opengl stuff into. 16:29:49 <_3b> true, it is indented similarly witohut the CASE aounrd it 16:30:41 *_3b* should do some more opengl code too 16:31:17 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:27 what I really need to do is write a gui for a music player. 16:31:35 I cannot decide how to do this. 16:31:59 I'm giving serious thought to just using mplayer as a music player. 16:32:14 hefner: by also making it interfaceable completely through the commandline and making me happy? :) 16:32:31 nyef: emms is moderately useable 16:32:47 usable 16:32:56 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:33:05 *_3b* may just start using foobar2000 in wine or something 16:33:06 nyef: mplayer (w/o gui) is what I've been using for the past few weeks. I switched from mpg123 once I realized that seeking and the ability to play ogg files might be nice. 16:33:18 Jasko [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:27 I can navigate almost as quickly from the shell as I can click around in a file dialog anyway. 16:33:34 Heh. The "resume suspended PCM" thing is actually a major point as far as I'm concerned. 16:33:57 ooh, I should test that on my laptop. 16:34:27 I also found the instructions for how to write code to resume suspended PCM. 16:34:43 link plz! 16:34:56 http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/alsa-lib/pcm.html 16:35:05 oh, of course. 16:35:13 Have a look for SND_PCM_STATE_SUSPENDED. 16:36:21 I already call snd_pcm_resume when there's an error, I wonder if that will just work, or if I have to be more mindful of the situation. 16:36:57 I get the impression that a suspended PCM system can't really be configured properly either. 16:36:59 the prepare/drop/drain seems odd. 16:39:58 In a way, but if it's a sequence that manages some hidden state it almost makes sense. 16:41:07 If, for example, the drop is the bit that wakes it up, then the drain could be required to set things back to where you can do your configuration and the prepare is required to set up for the drop... 16:41:32 -!- ferada` is now known as ferada 16:41:41 Then again, I'm attempting to reason without any real background information, so I could be way off base. 16:41:50 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:42:23 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 16:43:19 kmcorbett [n=Keith@12.232.60.2] has joined #lisp 16:43:28 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:43:34 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:43:37 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 16:43:49 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:43:51 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:02 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-a672ca9cf05242ad] has joined #lisp 16:48:54 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:35 -!- coderdad_ [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:56:05 -!- rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:56:05 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:56:20 rstandy [n=rastandy@host89-142-static.5-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:57:00 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:57:07 coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:01 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:58:09 coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:51 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 17:07:51 well, resuming playback after suspend seems to Just Work (on my machine, anyway), but my mp3 stream code produce ear-hurting distorted noise instead of music. 17:08:27 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-c9053bef3f75da90] has joined #lisp 17:08:29 What about re-setting the playback parameters as well? 17:09:30 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 17:09:47 oh, the audio is fine. the mp3 stream was outputting garbage before the suspend, too. First time I tried this on a 32-bit machine, and something is behaving different. 17:10:52 ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 17:16:59 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-129-72.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:18:50 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:19:31 asksol [n=ask@212.251.218.208] has joined #lisp 17:19:42 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:07 -!- ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 17:24:43 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 17:25:02 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:49 -!- jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:26:05 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 17:26:43 that !#opera is not stable. 17:27:53 Seems just reading newsgroups causes it to abort. 17:31:25 if you are reading c.l.l. then it's not strange behavior 17:32:53 Self-defense :) 17:33:55 yes, there has been a lot of garbage on c.l.l lately 17:34:15 -!- peterc [n=pcaffin@emu.autons.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:36:59 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@host89-142-static.5-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:37:29 rjack_ [n=rjack@adsl-ull-207-60.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 17:37:30 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:39:23 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 17:40:22 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 17:40:25 -!- ThomasIl [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 17:44:38 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:58 alexbobp_ [n=alex@ppp-70-253-78-64.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:05 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.143.138] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:48:29 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:51:01 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@ppp-70-253-78-64.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:51:08 -!- alexbobp_ is now known as alexbobp 17:51:08 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-129-72.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:52:19 -!- lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:53:27 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-129-72.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:57:49 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:58:16 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 17:59:14 dys` [n=user@p5B316D20.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:34 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Client Quit] 18:01:53 jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:54 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:02:11 hello 18:02:23 -!- s0ber_ [i=pie@118-160-165-20.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:03:47 peterc [n=pcaffin@emu.autons.net.au] has joined #lisp 18:04:32 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:05:40 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 18:06:28 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:42 -!- dys` [n=user@p5B316D20.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:08:40 -!- jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:08:47 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@ppp-70-253-78-64.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:08:58 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 18:08:59 alexbobp [n=alex@ppp-70-253-78-64.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:08 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:21 -!- foobar__ [n=_prip@host219-132-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:11:55 prip [n=_prip@host219-132-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:13:19 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 18:13:19 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:15:34 -!- cYmen [n=cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit ["Changing server"] 18:15:38 cYmen [n=cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 18:18:30 -!- panzer`kunzt [n=nonamme@cpe-74-64-125-220.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:20:45 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:51 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:22:52 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:22:52 jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:35 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:36 -!- jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:24:07 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:24:35 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:50 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:25:10 this is one of the coolest explanations of lisp and macros and how lisp differs from other languages - http://lists.warhead.org.uk/pipermail/iwe/2005-July/000130.html - written by MJD (author of Higher Order Perl) 18:25:33 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 18:26:56 those milan people are probably drinking their wine right now 18:29:05 antoni [n=user@177.pool85-53-32.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 18:29:12 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:29:50 danlei [n=user@pD9E2CC0F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:56 I'm back to thinking about window streams 18:29:59 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:26 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:30:34 jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:36 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:36:30 neglecting reads/writes to the stream from a different process than that which created the stream, if I then just watch for changes in "state" from read to write, I might be able to organize the output records appropriately 18:37:19 hrm maybe not 18:37:24 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:37:55 (y-or-n-p "foo ") 18:38:50 if writes are arriving asynchronously from different places, it seems like you want to use separate streams for each interaction, so you can keep them in the right order in the output (unless you really want them all mixed up) 18:39:12 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:20 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:06 right, I don't want them mixed up, I want the i/o history to show the true chronological events 18:40:40 *hefner* is confused 18:40:42 but if you are in the listener and you are tracing a function in another process for instance 18:41:41 it screws up the input output? 18:42:01 not until you record it to history 18:42:27 it will go like this: 18:42:58 cl-user(25): --trace output-- --trace ouput -- --user input-- 18:43:10 then in the history it will show 18:43:24 cl-user(25): --user-input-- 18:43:37 --trace output-- --trace output-- 18:43:55 -- print of evaled user-input -- 18:44:20 that's not such a big deal though? is it? 18:45:25 I don't know, I don't understand your architecture. Why not just insert that kind of stream output before the editor output region? 18:45:37 but if you type (y-or-n-p "foo") it will put the "foo" *after* the read from the y-or-n-p 18:45:54 i am 18:46:09 oh, I got you. that was a prompt. 18:46:21 yeah, hmm. 18:47:03 ideally I would like it to make y-or-n-p a nested output record 18:48:38 if brackets represent bounds of an output history object, then: 18:48:50 I'd take the approach I've used for clim-style input editing, so that input and any incidental output (namely, prompts) during input are grouped together, and the trace output would be inserted before it. 18:49:33 [cl-user(25): (y-or-n-p "foo ") [foo y] t] 18:50:41 y-or-n-p seems like a bad example, as 1) no one uses it, and 2) it's built into CL, so there's no clean way to wrap an editing stream around it 18:51:04 how do you determine what is "incidental output" vs regular output 18:51:20 people use read 18:51:31 because you have separate streams. 18:52:09 i have one dual-channel stream, is that what your getting at? 18:52:24 optikalmouse [n=user@bas1-toronto10-1279398029.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:52:24 oh 18:52:25 I have no idea 18:52:26 duh 18:52:31 I need an opinion on the style of some code 18:52:41 I changed it from a few ifs to an and/or/not 18:52:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/81041 18:52:48 you're saying use seperate streams for incidental 18:53:06 I don't know if the 2nd/bottom version is easier to understand/read than the 1st/top version :S 18:53:27 optikalmouse: (find t (mapcar ...)) is SOME. 18:53:38 pkhuong: thank you. I was looking for the ANY function :p 18:53:55 and in general, (find ... (mapcar ...)) is (find ... :key ...) 18:54:15 (not zerop) should probably PLUSP. 18:54:40 and overall? should I go with the and or the ifs :S 18:54:41 and there should probably be a path between X and X of length 0, otherwise some inductive reasoning may fail. 18:54:59 manic12: I'm suggesting you have a separate editor stream which you can create, print a prompt to, then call read or whatever on, and this is linked into your output history in such a way that all the output (including echoed characters) on the editor stream always appears at the end of the containing stream (so that trace output doesn't get mixed up in it).f 18:55:17 so you then have (if (plusp steps) (some ...) (eql start end)) 18:56:06 so trace output would push down cl-user(25): 18:56:15 yeah 18:56:22 ok 18:56:51 that is different than allegro where it appears right after the prompt and right before input 18:57:15 but i'm fine with being different as long as it is logical 18:57:34 pkhuong: thank you :D 18:57:45 are you really looking for paths of length *exactly* equal to "steps"? 18:58:02 no, just want to see if there's a path at all 18:58:22 but uh, I had it recurse too much and kill SBCL if I didn't have a steps limit 18:58:25 you have a logic bug then, unless you have loops on all the vertices. 18:58:42 but for the maximum recursion, the limit should be how many edges there are. 18:58:47 Don't use the system stack, especially not with a DFS traversal. 18:58:54 right now with the stream I implemented an around method to output-top-level-prompt moves the input and output buffers into an output-record and pushes it on the history and makes new buffers for the new i/o 18:58:56 *hefner* wonders how hard it would be to rip the sbcl reader out into user code to hack up for listener purposes 19:00:01 md` [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 19:00:31 how can I avoid the system stack pkhuong ? 19:00:57 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:00:57 I've got the sources to the top level from acl 5.0.1, and it was complicated then I'm sure it's just as complicated now 19:01:33 Incredibly enough, you use your own stack and a loop, just like the books do. You probably want a breadth-first search though. 19:01:59 *nyef* suddenly remembers "DFS return path". 19:02:25 hm, I should go back to reading the algorithms book then :p 19:02:44 -!- jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:03:06 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:56 You should have noticed that your function never returns T, though. 19:04:39 google code search is brain damaged. returning five pages of identical lines from changelogs of various xmms versions is not even remotely useful. 19:04:53 peterwang [n=peterwan@58.207.128.80] has joined #lisp 19:06:54 pkhuong: breadth search would mean looking at the vertices and their edges instead of searching through the start/end point, yes? 19:06:55 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:07:08 no. 19:07:19 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-160-58.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:54 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 19:08:46 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 19:08:55 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:08:59 :/ I feel like much less of a coder than before. back to learning! 19:09:34 pkhuong can make you feel that way 19:09:35 well I'm back to satanism ;) 19:09:50 -!- rjack_ [n=rjack@adsl-ull-207-60.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 19:10:10 hefner: use the reader from sacla 19:10:32 Guh! I just had this mental image of an array, node-id by node-id, which maps the next node in a shortest path between the two nodes. 19:10:48 -!- peterwang [n=peterwan@58.207.128.80] has left #lisp 19:11:26 that's called the petre algorithm nyef 19:11:54 Sacla is the premium Italian food producer of authentic Italian recipes 19:12:28 -!- Phoodus [n=foo@wsip-24-234-246-213.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:12:33 jthing: Yeah, I figured it was already a known result, but still... 19:13:23 clever, clever. 19:13:53 nyef, Don't worry. I reinvented it myself. I am also a ignorant fool 19:13:57 Populating said array could be interesting, too... 19:15:18 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-34-14.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:17:09 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-190-50.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 19:17:12 parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:53 nyef: for interesting purposes that array is usually too large to even be represented. 19:18:10 pkhuong: Yeah, I figured it might be. 19:19:51 That said, it's effectively a caching operation... 19:20:02 It is! 19:21:40 seems to me you could have an incremental gc thread gc fairly easily as long as you were willing to accept 19:21:46 dammit, wasn't finished with that. 19:22:05 immutable storage? 19:22:12 terrible performance, actually 19:22:24 Meh. That's what moore's law is for, isn't it? 19:22:31 something like dijkstra's thingy? 19:22:45 pick a block, run through all the potential reference sites - if none are found, mark it as discardable 19:22:53 go to the next block 19:22:55 dlowe: that's called reference counting. 19:23:15 pkhuong: except way slower! 19:23:20 Looks more like mark/sweep, maybe? 19:23:32 yes, it suffers from the same problem as reference counting. Never mind. 19:24:18 okay, so pick a block, mark transitive closure of block, then search for references into that set 19:24:24 (bleh) 19:25:16 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:25:45 yup that'd work. And if you use old strong connectivity data, the worst case is that you leak memory until you recompute the SCCs! 19:26:21 I thought the point of GC was to -not- leak memory? 19:26:33 think of it as minor collections. 19:27:18 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 19:27:31 recomputing the SCCs could also be done as a separate thread 19:28:06 nyef: tell that to SBCL! :) 19:28:56 drewc: I have a hack on SBCL that ditches gencgc. The problem is that it doesn't replace it with anything... 19:29:02 no, this would be useless. no one said my freeable object doesn't hold a reference to, say, a GC root. 19:29:12 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-114-96.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:29:13 Ragnaroek [i=54a640e7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-52400da327df304c] has joined #lisp 19:29:21 nyef: me too! It's only a couple dozen LOCs too (: 19:29:33 hi 19:29:34 nyef: old lispm style GC? (dump the world and restart) :D 19:30:01 drewc: Sort of, but without the "dump the world" bit. 19:30:10 (Said hack is SBCL-os, btw.) 19:30:55 yakman_ [n=bot@94-194-134-155.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:30:55 ahh.. cool! 19:31:24 I haven't done anything with it in ages, but it -does- execute some lisp code in ring 3. 19:32:01 An allocation pool of a couple Gs would work. The only problem is that we have caching sprinkled around in the runtime, so it's really unsafe to ever release a pool. 19:33:11 (defmacro with-allocation-pool ((pool) &body body) ...) 19:33:19 -!- frobar [n=ulf@h-85-24-219-170.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has quit ["serpserpserpserpserp"] 19:33:20 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:33:34 why is it unsafe to release a pool? pkhuong 19:33:40 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:33:50 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:33:57 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:08 jthing: Because the caches mean that the pools might have live data, and without a GC you can't know absolutely that a pool is safe to release. 19:34:50 ok 19:35:04 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 19:35:04 My current thinking on the LispOS issue is that single-address-space systems are not a part of the design space that I like. 19:35:28 i agree with you nyef 19:35:30 curses! libmpg123 supports resampling 44.1 to 48. my laptop apparently (and myseriously) does not, and emits garbage if you ask it to anyway. ALSA gets the last laugh by forcing me to resample myself due to dmix's incompetence at it. 19:35:59 *hefner* meant to say that libmpg123 supported resampling on one machine but not the other 19:36:55 jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:55 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:36:59 i had this signal given, i then wrote code to invoke a restart, however it still goes to the debugger saying "no restart active", but the restart is in the debugger restart list, code is here http://paste.lisp.org/display/81045 19:37:54 benny` [n=benny@i577A1E05.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:24 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 19:38:28 beautiful 19:40:33 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:40:35 yakman_: I'm going to guess package issues here. Have an apropos for attempt-resync and see what turns up, then use an appropriate package qualifier. 19:40:59 whats apropos? 19:41:06 clhs apropos 19:41:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apropo.htm 19:41:16 yakman_: have you tried multithreaded code 19:41:28 jthing nope 19:41:56 Looks like it's sb-int, which means that it's not really for use by user code, though you can get away with it for quite a while some times. 19:42:27 yakman_: well antifucks gave me a beauty the other day 19:42:27 yes, apropos says its in sb-int 19:42:28 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-11-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:42:36 so sb-int:attempt-resync 19:43:48 dys [n=andreas@p5B316D20.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:27 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-21-15.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:44:29 rich_holygoat [n=rnewman@76-220-42-147.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:28 -!- gonzojive [n=red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has left #lisp 19:47:51 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:48:16 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:08 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1E0D.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:49:30 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:50:44 yakman_: http://paste.lisp.org/+1QJA. 19:50:57 sorry it tok so looong 19:51:19 ah i see what you're saying 19:51:29 you believe i should use threads instead? 19:52:01 yes! 19:52:41 why? apart from being able to write more things, while the program is running 19:53:10 -!- anekos is now known as A_anekos 19:53:52 im attacking you or anything, im just curious 19:55:09 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:55:54 yakman_: Actually I am listening to white zombie now and am findinging it hard to think at all ;) 19:56:04 ok :) 19:56:59 jthing: you mean that white zombie disables neurons? 19:57:07 jthing: quick! Stop it! 19:58:06 listen to it... 19:58:46 I justheard "I am Hell" 19:59:03 And believeve it ;) 19:59:27 lol 20:00:46 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 20:00:55 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:01:45 *drforr* switches Spinal Tap for White Zombie. 20:02:08 Well if you listen to that, no surprize lisp is doomed... 20:02:31 (Our OPTIMIZE quality parameters go to 11!) 20:04:15 aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:04:34 pjb`` whasn't aware you were one on the religious dudes 20:04:59 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 20:05:00 :-) 20:05:39 -!- pjb`` is now known as pjb 20:05:57 Thus spake the master programmer: "After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.". 20:06:25 Heh. Amen to that. 20:06:59 or as white zombiw would put it White Zombie: "More Human Than Human" 20:07:53 lol 20:09:20 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [""Bill Gates does run on a battery you know ;)" -- Ryliff"] 20:09:29 I love friday night's 20:10:00 *nyef* is looking forward to friday night. Only two more hours to go. 20:11:47 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:12:27 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:59 It's saturday here :) 20:14:16 Got terribly drunk on thursday night 20:14:26 nyef are you in ND still? 20:14:33 manic12: Yes. Two more weeks. 20:14:38 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 20:14:46 North Dakota? No wonder... 20:15:27 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:56 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.38.189] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:17:29 loxs [n=loxs@77.85.234.205] has joined #lisp 20:19:49 hi all, is there a good book about lisp? 20:20:00 Yes, there is. 20:20:04 minion: tell antoni about pcl 20:20:05 lol, I thought I wrote that. 20:20:06 minion: tell antoni about that dead sexy book 20:20:18 minion: wake up? 20:20:23 where is minion? :( 20:20:23 minion is on vacation 20:20:33 www.gigamonkeys.com/book I think 20:20:40 Yeah. 20:20:54 minion: chant 20:21:02 ;_; 20:21:09 antoni: Also, google for gentle introduction to symbolic computation by mr. touretzky 20:21:23 memet [n=memet@204-225-123-132.xdsl.convoke.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:23 ok thanks all 20:21:24 It's downloadable as well. 20:21:29 successfull lisp could be good too 20:21:36 ahoy. Anyone familiar with paserve on sbcl? 20:21:38 do you guys know of a project that uses closure-html? It's pretty complex to grasp, and I'd love to see it in work 20:21:43 one l :( 20:22:14 A simple quiestion, is lisp an interpreted language? 20:22:21 am having a " accept: error 0 on accept invalid keyword argument: :AUTO-CLOSE" on connection 20:22:22 yes 20:22:26 antoni: no 20:22:39 depends on the implementation 20:22:40 antoni: can be 20:22:42 antoni: if you need one, I guess we could find a lisp interpreter. 20:22:47 antoni: Usually compiled these days, but not always. 20:22:54 but he asked simple question 20:22:54 antoni: the language itself doesn't require it being interpreted 20:23:00 sellout: usually compiled all times. 20:23:04 antoni: that is to say, most implementations are compiled :) clisp can be interpreted, I think (but it depends) 20:23:19 madnificent: then I can build binary executables 20:23:22 many implementations do both 20:23:32 antoni: Ah, that is a different question :) 20:23:56 antoni: but with most implementations it's also possible to build executables. 20:24:03 antoni: depends, but it is possible in most cases 20:24:05 antoni: Yes it is possible, but it's not usual 20:24:22 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 20:24:24 anyways, so " accept: error 0 on accept invalid keyword argument: :AUTO-CLOSE" ring a bell? The page for paserve mentions it but there seems to be no fix as of yet (http://www.cliki.net/Portable%20Allegroserve%20Enhanced%20Version%20for%20SBCL) 20:24:30 some implementations only allow you to build an image 20:24:37 ideas? 20:24:41 and you use the ordinary lisp executable 20:25:06 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@12.232.60.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:26:45 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@123.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:27:31 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 20:27:40 antoni: still evaluating if you want to learn lisp then? 20:27:55 madnificent: I know elisp 20:28:11 he decided no when i said it is interpreted 20:28:30 manic12: why did you think it was interpreted? 20:28:52 he asked a simple question 20:29:01 There are teachers who say "interpreter" instead of "REPL" or "implementation"... 20:29:06 a yes or no answer 20:29:15 is what i thought he wanted 20:29:15 pjb: nuke them from orbit. it's the only way to be sure 20:29:17 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:29:17 All languages are interpreted. 20:29:29 pekka_ [n=patric@90-230-89-60-no148.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:30 pjb: point taken (but it still is terribly wrong) 20:29:42 -!- memet [n=memet@204-225-123-132.xdsl.convoke.net] has quit [] 20:29:44 nyef: yes interpreted by the cpu 20:29:49 nyef: the interpretation is not about the code, it is about what happens upon execution of it ;) 20:30:06 madnificent: Right. And it's always interpreted. 20:30:21 madnificent: Allegro has an interpreter and a compiler, just like a lot of other lisps 20:30:28 no, that is called execution :P 20:30:33 manic12: clisp too 20:30:41 madnificent: Execution is interpretation. 20:31:04 nyef: not really, as the cpu is dumb it generally doesn't make assumptions 20:31:09 it is vague to say the least 20:31:26 for instance, it is sometimes to your advantage to debug in interpreted mode because you can usually see more local variables 20:31:53 in any case, I'm quite positive that antoni wanted to hear 'no, it is not interpreted in all cases' instead of a simple yes... as yes would make him assume that it is only interpreted... 20:32:08 i know 20:32:31 i just hate it when I ask a yes or no question and people fail to use yes or no in the answer 20:32:37 can we argue about the definition of "compiler" now? 20:32:56 I don't grasp why people want to answer something that they know is going to cause confusion... 20:33:01 hefner: Yes. Compilers are interpreters. 20:33:15 hefner: no, we're going to talk about guns, and shooting people, and coffee... 20:33:20 bye all. Confusion................... 20:33:21 and why minion is dead... and coffee 20:33:27 oops 20:33:27 ehm, .. a very quick question - if I have a function like #'equal, how do I get the 'equal symbol from the function value? 20:33:28 madnificent: excellent! I love all of those things. 20:33:36 antoni: did you get an answer? :P 20:33:36 -!- antoni [n=user@177.pool85-53-32.dynamic.orange.es] has left #lisp 20:33:54 md`: there's not really any way. 20:34:00 function-lambda-expression, maybe. 20:34:17 hmm, that's kind of funny :) 20:34:19 md`: well, you could scan all the symbols and select those that are fbound to that function. 20:34:30 it's kinda like asking if bmw is blue 20:34:46 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:34:46 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:34:47 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has left #lisp 20:34:56 Okay, minion should be on its way back. 20:34:58 ah, I see now why SBCL has test and test-fun slots in hash-table 20:34:58 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:35:01 ok 20:35:32 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:36:00 pkhuong: function-lambda-expression does that! 20:36:04 thanks again 20:36:10 hefner: the more I read the code to franz' top-level-repl, the more i am coming to the conclusion that it's almost imposible to deal with (read) and (y-or-n-p) in an intelligent manner 20:36:16 md`: it may do that. 20:36:36 sepisultrum [n=enigma@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 20:37:00 manic12: I do not believe you. (Also, is stream-y-or-n-p part of gray streams?) 20:37:07 Why would the programmer user labels instead of lambda in this method? http://pastebin.com/d2e367224 20:37:12 hyperspec says it returns name as 3rd value 20:37:19 i'm using a simple-stream 20:37:38 hefner: I hope you are right btw 20:37:48 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:37:56 md`: it also has a very specific definition of name. 20:38:17 -!- pekka_ [n=patric@90-230-89-60-no148.tbcn.telia.com] has quit ["leaving"] 20:41:33 I see. But it works for SBCL, that's what matters :) 20:41:53 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:32 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:34 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:59 hefner: you asked a yes or no question, sorry, yes, stream-y-or-n-p is part of gray streams 20:44:18 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@56.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:45:56 minion: Are you okay now? 20:45:57 yes 20:45:59 Good. 20:46:39 sepisultrum: to ensure that there is at most one function object produced? to give it a name in printing? to avoid having the length definition interrupting the xlib:process-event call? 20:46:39 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-21-15.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:46:49 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-21-15.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:47:53 please don't let this be another unproductive day 20:49:17 -!- optikalmouse [n=user@bas1-toronto10-1279398029.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:51:46 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:53:01 ejs [n=eugen@3-233-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:24 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.126] has quit ["Log this!"] 21:00:43 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@208-45-247-237.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:56 -!- rich_holygoat [n=rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [] 21:04:31 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:10 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:05:34 i could do a def-fwrapper on y-or-n-p and bretheren 21:06:30 does that seem like an elaborate kludge? 21:06:31 pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:19 yes, versus defining a method on stream-y-or-n-p. the call to READ should be under your control, so you wouldn't have to do that (except for user code calling read, but, well, screw'em) 21:07:53 like i said though, i am not using a gray stream though maybe i should be 21:08:11 are you sure it matters? 21:08:24 no 21:08:39 the problem is that the fundamental-stream class in allegro makes a bunch of slots for cruft 21:09:11 I'm not suggesting you change your stream class. 21:09:46 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 21:09:50 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 21:11:37 you're right! 21:12:18 it didn't matter that it was not a gray stream 21:13:21 -!- md` [n=user@stip-srk131.195-146-143.telecom.sk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:14:29 on to the "well, screw' em" part... 21:15:44 -!- yakman_ [n=bot@94-194-134-155.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 21:15:46 if I did a def-fwrapper for read that if the *this-command-number* hasn't changed since the last read, to make a nested output record 21:16:05 (no really a sentence) 21:16:09 *not 21:16:12 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:16:45 is it worth it to make this work? 21:17:02 I use read in user code sometimes 21:17:05 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a640e7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-52400da327df304c] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:17:09 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483ACCD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:17:27 probably not though 21:17:39 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 21:18:43 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:35 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:20:14 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:35 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 21:22:57 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:18 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25:42 hallelujah! the trick is to bypass the automatic decoder selection and choose one of the crappier ones. 21:26:59 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:28:36 -!- ejs [n=eugen@3-233-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:28:39 anfairch [n=user@nat/microsoft/x-36eae216a78aeb49] has joined #lisp 21:28:51 ..and ALSA still gets the last laugh, because this sounds like crap. 21:30:27 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-157-232.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 21:31:06 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 21:35:14 rich_holygoat [n=rnewman@76-220-42-147.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:54 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-129-72.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 21:38:14 dnm_ [n=dnm@70-100-231-82.dr04.glvv.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:56 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:39:36 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:40:10 frobar [n=ulf@h-85-24-219-170.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 21:41:48 projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 21:41:56 i have a symbol s for which (case s (s "foo")) returns NIL. why might this be? it works for other symbols, and i haven't been able to pinpoint the difference between this symbol and those. 21:42:15 (case s ('value-of-s "foo")) returns "foo" 21:42:28 (case 's (s "foo")) 21:42:50 frobar: s evaluates to the value of s, not s. and (case ... ('foo ...)) is (case ... ((quote foo) ...)), which matches both quote and foo. 21:42:54 Your other symbols were likely keywords or defined to have themselves as value. 21:44:23 tc-rucho [n=tc-rucho@unaffiliated/tc-rucho] has joined #lisp 21:46:35 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:56 ah, so the values for the different cases don't get evaluated 21:47:25 -!- anfairch [n=user@nat/microsoft/x-36eae216a78aeb49] has left #lisp 21:47:37 thanks 21:48:45 anfairch [n=user@nat/microsoft/x-36eae216a78aeb49] has joined #lisp 21:51:18 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:27 -!- ferada [n=user@f054014037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:56:13 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:58:51 -!- nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving the officel."] 22:02:17 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:02:17 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:02:17 -!- JohnnyL [i=crashcar@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:02:17 -!- jawn- [n=dicks@daemon.Stanford.EDU] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:02:17 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:02:17 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:02:17 -!- jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:02:17 -!- hefner [n=hefner@scatterbrain.cbp.pitt.edu] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:02:17 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:02:17 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-19-46.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:02:42 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 22:03:27 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:27 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:03:27 JohnnyL [i=crashcar@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:27 jawn- [n=dicks@daemon.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:03:27 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 22:03:27 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 22:03:27 Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 22:03:27 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-19-46.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:27 hefner [n=hefner@scatterbrain.cbp.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 22:03:27 jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:21 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 22:05:43 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 22:12:29 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:15:05 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 22:16:09 -!- projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:17:39 -!- rich_holygoat [n=rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [] 22:20:56 projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 22:24:59 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@208-45-247-237.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [] 22:26:06 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@208-45-247-237.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:45 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:45 pjb: I'm trying to run your primes.lisp, and it complains about some missing functions. I gathered I need utlity.lisp and source-form.lisp, I've (load ...)'ed those files and even (compile-file ...)'d them, but still my top level does not know about these functions. 22:27:46 -!- jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:28:10 pjb: Like (while ...) for example. 22:28:25 I know I'm missing something utterly basic. 22:29:08 wrong package? 22:29:58 By which you mean ...? 22:31:20 Do I need specyfing (in-package blah) for this stuff to run? 22:31:23 slyrus: herep? 22:31:25 *hefner* can't think of a sufficiently condescending reply 22:31:32 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:31:54 Come on hefner! You're a LISPER. 22:32:37 it's so simple, really 22:32:44 -!- carbocalm [n=user@204.101.159.226] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:33:03 It's all about "key algorithmic techniques such as recursion and condescension" 22:33:12 *hefner* can't think of a connection between CL packages and Pokemon, unfortunately. 22:33:20 you take a couple of fragments like "what you don't understand is" and "you want", arrange them in a way that is pleasing to the eye, and hit send 22:33:32 weitzenbaum managed to have his computer do it! 22:33:36 heh 22:33:41 Thanks, solved it by guessing. 22:33:41 elizper 22:34:00 antifuchs: heh. I once described the basic ethos of c.l.l. to my wife with a focus on the phrase "what you don't understand is ..." 22:34:25 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-24-158.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:46 gigamonkey: I think you did that at the first ECLM as well... I think I may have plagiarized a bit (: 22:35:07 Heh. I wondered if I actually originated that. Immortality! 22:35:54 Double whammy: "What you don't understand is that what you really want is ..." 22:36:33 bwahaha 22:36:53 "is it because of your mother that you don't understand that ..." 22:37:38 ah, wait. this calls for the more assertive "it must be because of your mother that you don't understand ..." 22:38:03 (less psychoanalysis, more psychodiagnosis) 22:38:34 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-24-158.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:39:23 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-24-158.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:00 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-24-158.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:41:05 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-165-185.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:30 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-24-158.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:42:26 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-165-185.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:48:03 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-150-56-88.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:28 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@208-45-247-237.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [] 22:51:10 antoszka: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/ 22:51:28 antoszka: fetch the whole library. 22:51:43 (or you can just pick the needed packages). 22:52:24 pjb: Thanks. I think I'm still missing basic knowlegde about namespaces and such. 22:54:01 -!- MrSpec is now known as blee 22:54:16 -!- blee is now known as mrSpec 22:54:22 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:55:35 antoszka: http://www.flownet.com/ron/packages.pdf is a good introduction to CL packages. 22:55:56 Will read, thanks. 22:56:00 gigamonkey: yes, briefly 22:57:15 saikat__ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 22:59:38 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:00:32 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:03:16 Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-81-204.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:23 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:03:29 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:04:00 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:04:44 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:13 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:07:38 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 23:07:43 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:09:46 jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:47 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:10:50 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.143.105.20] has joined #lisp 23:10:58 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [] 23:11:22 dagnachew_ [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:12:02 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:12:24 chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:21 -!- chessguy_work is now known as chessguy 23:13:21 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.143.105.20] has quit [Client Quit] 23:13:27 -!- jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:13:39 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:50 merimus [n=merimus@c-67-171-83-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:14 -!- dagnachew_ [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 23:15:16 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-150-56-88.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:15:45 Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:15:55 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-12-191.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:23 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-12-191.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:16:43 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-12-191.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:15 Hey guys, is there like some good tutorial on how to debug common lisp code using SLIME (+ SBCL)? 23:18:52 Joreji: have you seen the slime videos? Not specifically about debugging, but a good intro about slime in general. 23:19:10 pjb: Yes, I have. 23:20:47 I'm sorta having trouble with SBCL not being able to v(iew) the source code when I manually set a (break) in the code. So I figure I'm doing something wrong. Or is (format t "") the way to go? 23:21:14 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-81-204.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:21:55 Sounds like you need to turn the debug level up a touch. 23:22:09 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 23:22:41 put: (declaim (optimize (speed 0) (space 0) (debug 3) (safety 3))) in your ~/.sbclrc 23:22:47 nyef: I figured something like this. Alas I have no idea how that works. 23:23:00 pjb: Thanks, I'll try that out. 23:23:12 clhs optimize 23:23:13 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_optimi.htm 23:23:39 Joreji: you can also evaluate it and reload your sources. 23:23:41 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:23:53 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 23:24:43 pjb: Isn't that what slime-compile-and-load-file does? 23:24:50 Yes. 23:25:02 Yeah I'm using that. 23:25:25 dkcl` [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 23:29:18 -!- dalton is now known as aleister_crowley 23:30:13 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:30:39 -!- saikat__ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has quit [] 23:31:47 Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-120-158.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:52 -!- prip [n=_prip@host219-132-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:32:34 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:09 prip [n=_prip@host230-122-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:35:37 -!- dkcl` is now known as dkcl 23:35:56 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:36:16 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-205-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:39:15 -!- asksol [n=ask@212.251.218.208] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:40:22 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:41:12 -!- dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:42:20 saikat_ [n=saikat@98.210.13.214] has joined #lisp 23:42:49 saikat__ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 23:43:36 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-12-191.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:45:01 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:46 yakman_ [n=bot@94-194-134-155.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:48:38 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:48:42 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:49:11 -!- yakman_ [n=bot@94-194-134-155.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 23:49:52 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-120-158.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:54:36 -!- saikat__ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 23:54:51 kidd [n=user@82.Red-79-150-114.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp