00:00:01 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:55 -!- housel [n=nnhousel@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit ["Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5"] 00:03:24 meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:58 -!- saikat` [n=saikat@67.188.108.159] has quit [] 00:05:26 -!- ruediger_ [n=ruediger@62-47-138-38.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:08:48 kidd2 [n=kidd@156.Red-79-152-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:18 -!- meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:10:29 -!- WormBe_ [n=WormBe@adsl71-119.kln.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:13:29 blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:1194:c3d3:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 00:13:47 getha [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 00:15:58 I have just ordered the postgreSQL books 00:16:45 and Donald Knuth's fourth book (what there is of it) 00:18:27 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 00:18:29 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 00:18:34 -!- kidd1 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:18:45 should be here come monday 00:19:50 anyhow, my blog software now runs under sbcl and with postgresql. 00:20:25 looking into canging into postmodern for my bugtrack system 00:21:09 changing from cl-sql to postmodern that is 00:21:17 meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:35 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:22:45 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 00:22:58 -!- jlf [n=user@209.204.171.109] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:25:27 zhouhai [n=zhyb@125.41.237.94] has joined #lisp 00:26:00 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:26:46 -!- rdd [n=user@83.250.157.93] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:30:44 I hope he gets to finish TAoCP 00:30:54 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 00:31:32 -!- frobar [n=ulf@h-85-24-219-170.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has quit ["leaving"] 00:31:49 My experimental language Formula 1 is written in Haskell/Liskell I'm afraid.. 00:31:59 p_i: well see 00:32:08 he's getting old 00:33:37 younder: well, there's some hope we might get nanofabs fast enough for someone to get basic life-extension working... 00:33:54 it would be a waste if he doesn't get to finish. 00:34:02 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:34:07 lol 00:34:28 OTOH, trying to write a complete programming book from zero to high level languages is akin to writing an encyclopedia by yourself 00:34:59 -!- zhouhai [n=zhyb@125.41.237.94] has left #lisp 00:35:01 I have the three volumes he HAS written and reading them has NOT been a waste. 00:35:13 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has left #lisp 00:35:16 younder: true 00:35:36 I'm waiting for 1-3 updated to MMIX before buying, but I have access to older editions 00:36:10 I find the MIX code to be distractingly low level and usually just skip it in favour of additional references. 00:36:55 MIX is also hopelessly outdated 00:37:22 I'm working on translating MIX to MMIX. As an old assembly programmer I find the old code familiar 00:38:55 *p_l* just found a rather interesting defclass* (no, not the one that provided shortcuts for defclass) 00:39:25 defclass* ? 00:39:30 first time I had seen #+genera :D 00:40:20 Yeah, lisp machines are rare these days. (Rainer Josvig has some) 00:40:28 younder: there's a defclass-star package somewhere, which adds a form called defclass*, which adds some shortcuts to defclass 00:41:28 saikat_ [n=saikat@67.180.9.222] has joined #lisp 00:41:37 younder: well, it's not terribly hard to get Genera working, but it's in gray area... 00:42:42 though the comment on OpenGenera torrent always makes me laugh 00:43:07 -!- dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:43:20 slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-168-101.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:43:26 how so? 00:43:42 guess who commented 00:43:56 rofl 00:43:59 slackaholic 00:44:17 "Congratulations on downloading the finest software development environment ever created. If you want to find out more about Genera or would like to have a Symbolics Lisp Machine, check out the Symbolics website at www.symbolics.com or contact sales@symbolics.com." 00:44:32 lol 00:44:39 nice 00:44:41 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:54 I thought most of the symbolics IP went to Sun 00:44:56 I consider this comment one of the best reactions to leaked/pirated sofrware ever 00:45:17 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@67.180.9.222] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:45:45 well why don't you complain to sales@symbolics.com :) 00:45:56 not 00:46:15 younder: I doubt they will pay me to patch OpenGenera with functionality I find missing ;P 00:46:21 the website at www.symbolics.com is laughably bad. 00:46:22 Vutral, hi! 00:46:36 hello 00:46:45 Fade: we don 00:47:03 't care, symbolics.com is the first .com domain name created. 00:47:20 symbolics these day's is ONE person 00:47:38 heh 00:47:51 really !? 00:48:03 i guess i am not existant 00:48:11 long gone and far away 00:48:16 defclass-star !?!?!? 00:48:24 deafstar-class i guess 00:48:33 that would be the beethoven case 00:48:40 i ment case not class 00:49:13 Vutral, what happened man? 00:49:36 i got pain in my legs 00:49:40 seems something degenerative 00:50:04 oh if you survived the nuclear explosion 00:50:11 after the neutron weapons get developed 00:50:17 you can join that class or so 00:50:29 stop spamming 00:50:39 sorry man, its that hawking radiation 00:51:11 -!- buggarage [n=user@xdsl-87-78-75-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:51:35 4th law of thermodynamics 00:51:42 getting crazy... ---> Vutral ...i think so... o.O 00:52:05 correct answer, you won the jack-pot 00:52:33 and you the boot 00:52:38 saikat_ [n=saikat@67.180.9.222] has joined #lisp 00:52:45 OP please? 00:52:53 these boots are made for walking 00:53:11 *Fade* sighs 00:53:20 fade ;) 00:53:42 Vutral: no the kick and ban combo. congrats 00:53:45 you remember me of something wonderful i saw in the cellular acceleraton 00:53:50 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:08 if the operator ever wakes ip.. 00:54:12 up 00:54:33 uhm 00:54:47 we dont need a operator, i am working for acm i can terminate myself 00:55:19 uhh-huh 00:55:49 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:56:06 *hefner* pulls the pin 00:56:12 hugh  00:56:17 old friend ;) 00:56:22 you never put me a call 00:56:40 *younder* wonders if he can pipe ALICE 00:56:46 sure 00:57:34 TwMadCow [n=rami@174.6.105.28] has joined #lisp 00:57:38 Hey 00:57:47 Why when I do make-package, then in-package 00:57:53 in in GCL 00:57:55 *p_l* guesses we need more ops 00:58:08 the new package doesn't automatically import common-lisp symbols? 00:58:19 thats risky 00:58:26 p_i: one awake would do 00:58:31 p_l, agree with you! 00:58:44 Because you didn't tell MAKE-PACKAGE that you want the package to use the COMMON-LISP package, TwMadCow? 00:59:03 TwMadCow: because you didn't import them. The default USe list in defpackage/make-package is implementation dependent. 00:59:19 Ah, the book didn't explain that =) 00:59:26 How do I tell it to import it then? 00:59:34 Wait, you make-package instead of defpackage? 00:59:41 yea, why? 00:59:42 true, sbcl doesn't include common lisp in a standard package 00:59:43 *Riastradh* blinks. 00:59:49 what book are you following? 00:59:52 What book tells you to organize your programs using MAKE-PACKAGE? 00:59:59 *slackaholic* ... 01:00:08 And then the reason you in-package afterwards is that make-package/defpackage just creates the new package, not makes it "current". 01:00:12 BOOK !? 01:00:12 Common lisp, an interactive approach 01:00:17 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 01:00:22 so (:use :cl) 01:00:23 i need to call lufthansa 01:00:41 younder: Not with make-package. 01:00:44 common lisp as in spoken lisp 01:01:04 nyef: no with a defpackage 01:01:10 -!- klausi_ [n=klausi@port-92-193-63-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:01:19 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:01:24 younder: The opening question was specifically about make-package. 01:01:32 Ah, when I used defpackage it automatically imported common-lisp 01:01:36 -!- kidd2 [n=kidd@156.Red-79-152-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:01:52 But just for kicks, how do I do that using make-package? 01:01:56 true, make-package would be a mistake 01:02:20 kidd2 [n=kidd@156.Red-79-152-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:27 meingbg pasted "MOP problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80945 01:02:32 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EE30.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:03:12 freethink-home [n=berdote@adsl-190-245-66.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:16 meingbg: You forgot a line terminator and didn't finish-output. 01:03:22 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:03:54 nyef: That simple? 01:04:09 Well, there might be something else as well, but that's the obvious one. 01:04:41 Just "... ~%" and (finish-output) ? 01:04:41 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-75-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:04:47 One or the other. 01:05:12 I'd go with the ~%, myself. 01:05:27 nyef: So I should just use defpackage? 01:05:33 I've never used (finish-output). 01:05:52 If you have to ask the question, TwMadCow, you should just use DEFPACKAGE. 01:06:00 TwMadCow: There are occasions to use make-package, but defpackage is the one to use most of the time. 01:06:09 I see, thanks ^^ 01:06:12 TwMadCow: And then use IN-PACKAGE to make it the current package for subsequent forms. 01:06:25 parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:43 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:03 nyef: Nope, still ain't cutting it. 01:07:14 TwMadCow: and (:use :cl) for portabillity 01:07:30 meingbg: Okay, now we start in on the real debugging... 01:08:06 Oh, you're trying to specialize it on standard-class. 01:08:12 Is that really defined to work? 01:08:36 yes, in MOP 01:08:47 (I'm in a hotel half a continent away from home, and for some reason I have my copy of AMOP with me.) 01:09:10 nyef: That's a real hacker. 01:09:47 nyef: I supposed it would dispatch on the second argument if two methods were defined with the same first argument type? 01:10:30 -!- oconnore [n=oconnore@c-66-31-124-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:10:46 oconnore [n=oconnore@c-66-31-124-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:56 minion: Tell slackaholic about AMOP. 01:10:57 slackaholic: have a look at AMOP: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the sepcification of MOP at http://www.lisp.org/mop/ 01:11:23 meingbg: by default. It really depends on the defgeneric form. But I don't think specialising on standard-class is even allowed. 01:11:53 nyef: I don't know if I want it either. 01:12:36 nyef: I just know I want stuff done when something is read from that class. 01:13:02 Here we go, page 235... 01:13:02 rofl 01:13:24 -!- TwMadCow [n=rami@174.6.105.28] has quit [] 01:14:06 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:10 nyef: Does it seem like I need to define a new metaclass to do this? 01:14:12 Hrm. It's unspecific. 01:14:16 You might. 01:14:19 -!- freethin1-home [n=berdote@adsl-88-1-174.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:14:27 slot-definition nyef? 01:14:48 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:15:20 (page 235) 01:15:34 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:16:43 nyef: The slot definition is specialized on the standard one in package closer-mop... is that a problem? 01:17:05 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-75-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:17:22 sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-140.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:18:14 Okay, the actual restriction is on page 144, I think. "Portable methods on specified generic functions specialized to portable metaobject classes must be defined before any instances of those classes (or any subclasses) are created..." 01:18:49 Essentially, the effective methods for slot access and whatnot for a given metaclass may be sealed when the first instance is created. 01:19:18 And since there are a lot of standard-classes in the system already... 01:19:33 nyef: That would explain one or two things... 01:20:09 -!- sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 01:20:12 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:20:15 So, that's one justification. There may be more, and less obscure ones at that, but I'm not inlcined to go hunting. 01:20:25 Hunh. 01:20:32 fine 01:20:39 *nyef* transpose an #\l and a #\c. 01:22:11 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-140.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:22:24 nyef: Thank you. That was really helpful, really. 01:22:41 Glad I could help, then. 01:22:49 *nyef* really is a MOP newbie. 01:23:00 unless you are impossibly dense you should get "The Art of Meta Object Protocol" if you don't have it already 01:24:00 *meingbg* is going to get that book. And that, and that. Amazon is doing a good job suggesting additional buys... 01:24:20 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:24:50 meingbg: pascal costanza has some nice presentations/mop tutorials online 01:25:20 Yeah, the main reason I have yet to really study AMOP is that my CLOS use is really minimal and it's a complicated topic. 01:25:35 I just mostly don't need to know yet. 01:25:50 -!- mqt [n=tran@c-66-41-46-222.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:26:53 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:27:07 JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:13 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-140.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:28:36 nyef: Me neither, but right now I was faced with a lot of copy-pasting work, and it just didn't seem right to do that in lisp. 01:29:00 Yeah, that's a good time to learn more. 01:29:07 Or reach for a macro. 01:29:20 Either way. 01:29:30 But, again, my use of CLOS is -really- minimal, so I haven't run into it yet. 01:29:42 I understand. 01:30:01 If AMOP was indeed a standard it would be simpler 01:30:15 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:21 Perhaps, but it's broken anyway, is it not? 01:30:27 thus Pasacal Costanzas work 01:30:46 nyef: yes 01:31:23 damascenodiego [i=1000@187-25-144-89.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:31:59 -!- damascenodiego [i=1000@187-25-144-89.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Client Quit] 01:32:30 damascenodiego [i=1000@187-25-144-89.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:32:45 ... Why is the first thing that comes to mind "carmen sandiego"? 01:33:23 I don't know, but it seems appropriate 01:33:27 the song is catchy 01:33:36 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-132.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 01:34:01 -!- damascenodiego [i=1000@187-25-144-89.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Client Quit] 01:34:40 damascenodiego [i=1000@187-25-144-89.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:35:06 -!- nowhere_man [i=pierre@pthierry.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:35:14 -!- damascenodiego [i=1000@187-25-144-89.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Client Quit] 01:35:41 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-168-101.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:35:44 what song JAS415? 01:36:04 AS415 !? 01:36:47 the carmen sandiego song, which is why it came to mind first for nyef 01:37:18 He's a artist! Its's like asking "what do you thing about the springsteen." 01:37:45 Actually, the only bit of audio that comes to mind is from the TV show. "Honor among theives? Surely you jest! If I'm going to jail, I'm taking Carmen with me. Look for her in ." 01:37:47 sigh 01:38:17 s/thing/think/ 01:39:00 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:1194:c3d3:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:39:39 -!- hbock [n=hbock@pool-96-253-33-184.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 01:41:31 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 01:42:21 bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-232-191.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 01:43:14 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:43:43 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-28-75.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["« La POO c'est bien beau, mais en C au moins on va droit au but. »"] 01:44:11 blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:1194:c3d3:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 01:44:41 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.143.96.147] has joined #lisp 01:46:10 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:46:43 The big chill.. 01:48:18 *younder* takes no BS 01:50:09 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 01:50:46 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-76-122-37-30.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:50:46 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-66-68-183-235.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:50:46 -!- gmlk [n=gmlk@alicia.demon.nl] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:50:46 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:50:46 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:50:46 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:51:07 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-76-122-37-30.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:07 kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-66-68-183-235.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:07 gmlk [n=gmlk@alicia.demon.nl] has joined #lisp 01:51:07 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:51:07 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:07 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 01:51:42 -!- oconnore [n=oconnore@c-66-31-124-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:52:00 oconnore [n=oconnore@c-66-31-124-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:27 bombshelter13___ [n=bombshel@209-161-239-222.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 01:54:53 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:48 Pet peeve: The behavior of O for "Open all in tabs" when navigating firefox bookmarks via keyboard. 01:56:00 -!- freethink-home [n=berdote@adsl-190-245-66.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 01:56:06 Reason: Any other alphabetic key navigates among bookmarks. 01:56:17 freethink [n=user@adsl-190-245-66.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:14 -!- freethink [n=user@adsl-190-245-66.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:57:15 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-140.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:57:20 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 01:57:39 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-132.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:57:56 freethink [n=user@adsl-190-245-66.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:00 I use Opera 01:58:04 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bf70457e423a855c] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:58:47 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@79.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 01:58:55 beatiful program really, (when it works) 01:58:55 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:00:30 Beautiful caveat. 02:00:37 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 02:00:59 slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-144-89.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:01:05 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-232-191.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 02:02:10 well, The email doesn't work under ubuntu 02:02:49 I have to use "evolution" 02:03:24 It pisses me off 02:04:51 younder: on topic please 02:05:17 drewc: I'll try 02:05:43 there is no try, only do. 02:06:05 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@pool-173-77-252-7.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:10 there are pople, not machines 02:07:04 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-144-89.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:07:14 younder: nonsense is not on topic either! ;) 02:08:27 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-232-191.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:09:15 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has been kicked from #lisp 02:09:17 saikat__ [n=saikat@67.180.9.222] has joined #lisp 02:09:45 fine: how do I redefine the reader to accept regexps? 02:10:17 you do it like so! 02:12:20 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:14:26 jlf [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:31 http://paste.lisp.org/+1QGN 02:14:51 -!- bombshelter13___ [n=bombshel@209-161-239-222.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:16:33 -!- oconnore [n=oconnore@c-66-31-124-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:19:05 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:20:25 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:1194:c3d3:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:21:00 Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-230.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:57 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.143.96.147] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:25:23 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:26:48 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@67.180.9.222] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:27:51 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has been kicked from #lisp 02:27:54 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440412.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:28:14 i might have been a bit harsh there, but it's not a ban. 02:28:28 *drewc* goes fishing 02:30:33 younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 02:32:07 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:32:23 -!- zen_balrog [n=johnnyc@adsl-71-157-163-55.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["zen_balrog has no reason"] 02:33:55 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-123-107.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:35:18 -!- saikat__ [n=saikat@67.180.9.222] has quit [] 02:38:39 bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 02:45:48 CrazyEddy [n=Pleuroto@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 02:46:20 bombshelter13___ [n=bombshel@209-161-237-61.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 02:50:42 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-194-60.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:27 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:33 quick question. anyway to compute the initform value of a slot from the initform of another slot in the same class? right now I am writing an :after method for INITIALIZE-INSTANCE and the procedural way of doing things doesn't feel right to me. 02:53:20 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-232-191.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:54:53 for example, let's say I want to compute a semi-unique "ID" string from the value of another two slots concatenated together. i.e. (defclass foo () ((first-name) (last-name) (name-hash :initform (ironclad:digest-sqeuence *md5-digest* (concatenate 'string )] 02:55:01 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77962 maybe, fusss 02:55:14 ..i might have mis-interpreted your question though (it's 5 in the morning here .... :P) 02:55:25 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-67-67-218-230.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:55:27 fusss: specialise an :after method on initialize-instance. 02:55:27 hehe, you nailed it actuall 02:56:24 that's exactly what I was doing and I kept getting "No applicable next method"; but I see lnostdal's code uses (when (next-method-p) ..) something I forgot. 02:56:28 cheers! :-) 02:57:00 yw .. :) 02:57:42 lnostdal: in case you're wondering what this is for. i decided to issue "page IDs" for refering pages of each ad click. the publisher can categorize each page, but we also do automated text categorization/classification on the page once and cache that. 02:58:08 what's wrong with *gasp* functions? That'll even encapsulate things better than araw call to make-instance. 02:58:42 pkhuong: i don't know what the beast might evolve to. functions tend to enforce and API, ime. 02:58:46 Well, the first thing that comes to mind as a potential problem for functions is the affect it would have on the protocol for mixins. 02:58:53 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:58:56 +1 nyef 02:58:58 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-227-196.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 02:59:05 Inosdal: My blog is working :) 02:59:10 ... the -effect- it would have. 02:59:27 fusss: is your :after-ized class a mixin? 02:59:37 younder: have you been getting my msgs? look into cl-nuclblog for inspiration/snippets ;-) 03:00:15 fusss: That was a no brainer 03:00:46 pkhuong: at the moment no, it's the class itself, and i don't know where it's headed to (there is a chance i might scrape clos and move to RDBMS tables, so i prefer to keep my options open. there is no inheritence even, parent/child relationship is modeled with parent-id and children-ids slots :-) 03:01:02 fusss: The real work is in the bugtrack program 03:01:37 younder: i hope you're on hunchentoot 1.0.0; the api is sweet it rolls of the tongue like italian profanity 03:01:38 cool, younder .. i always end up deleting my blogs .. x) 03:02:08 fusss: yes 03:02:46 younder: P.S. "Cool URLs Don't Change"; google that phrase for a nice piece of prose by Sir Tim B. Lee 03:02:52 fusss: I hope you don't mind me saving that ("rolls off the tongue like italian profanity") for later use. 03:03:06 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:03:16 nyef: by all means :-) 03:03:21 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:27 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-83b9835c5b9ec820] has joined #lisp 03:04:18 alright, time for an all nighter; coffee, check, car keys, check. see you all later! 03:04:22 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 03:05:12 freethin` [n=user@adsl-190-240-156.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:35 btw, if anyone else has to solve LPs or MIPs: Gurobi (the ILOG fork) has a nice API, really good (multiprocessor!) perfs, and the free license allows for 500 variables and 500 constraints (: 03:07:07 blbrown [n=Berlin@71.236.25.127] has joined #lisp 03:08:35 pkhuong: Is that a joke? 03:08:54 Inosdal: the real work is porting the bugtrack system to postmodern 03:09:26 no. I have really good experience with it, and other solvers have been a pain to set up ime. 03:09:53 Inosdal: I've looked over it and I agree postmodern is a better match for postgreSQL 03:10:07 toteadler [n=toteadle@pool-71-126-64-202.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:15 chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:57 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:11:15 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:11:54 -!- bombshelter13___ [n=bombshel@209-161-237-61.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:12:01 pkhuong: aight. Perhaps it was a good idea to limit variable number... just wouldn't have expected that. 03:13:13 meingbg: it's a free license. Their goal is to sell full licenses. It can be very easy to perform row generation to work around a constraint limit. 03:13:59 bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-241-212.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 03:14:07 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@209-161-241-212.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:14:12 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Success] 03:14:14 pkhuong: I guess, yes. 03:14:37 30 tables. 03:16:50 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:17:41 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 03:20:06 -!- freethink [n=user@adsl-190-245-66.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:21:12 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:23:23 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 03:24:26 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 03:24:37 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:25 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-227-196.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:30:37 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:52 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 03:44:24 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:45:03 clhs plusp 03:45:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_minusp.htm 03:45:27 Right, (plusp 0) => NIL. That's what I thought I remembered. 03:50:25 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 03:51:47 Hrm. And I need to rethink this little function. I was planning on using with-input-from-string, but a good number of my data elements can't easily be parsed that way. :-/ 03:55:14 -!- tsuru` [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:59:38 -!- peterc [n=pcaffin@emu.autons.net.au] has left #lisp 04:04:21 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:19 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host29.190-138-170.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:06:59 -!- semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has quit ["leaving"] 04:07:02 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:08:22 clhs *r-d-f-f* 04:08:22 *READ-DEFAULT-FLOAT-FORMAT*: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_rd_def.htm 04:09:11 plage [n=user@83.224.64.17] has joined #lisp 04:12:27 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 04:14:41 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@79.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:15:01 slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-132-3.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 04:16:18 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-192-99.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:05 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.143.96.147] has joined #lisp 04:18:36 xuanwu [n=xuanwu@c-98-223-235-49.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:28 kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.180.160] has joined #lisp 04:24:08 saikat__ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:08 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:32:30 hi, when using "handler-case" to catch errors, it can catch errors like "divided by 0" or "variable undefined", but when I evaluate adding some really big float like 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0, it throws error "failed to build float Original error: Too large to be represented as a SINGLE-FLOAT". Is it some special error? Is there some way to catch them? 04:34:39 That's probably happening at read-time. 04:36:32 nyef: Is there not a reader macro to explicitly read as double-float? 04:36:37 oh yes it says "READER-ERROR at 59 on # at the beginning of error message 04:36:51 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-205.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 04:36:52 xuanwu: nyef was just looking at: 04:36:55 meingbg: It's nto a reader macro. 04:37:06 clhs *r-d-f-f* 04:37:06 *READ-DEFAULT-FLOAT-FORMAT*: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_rd_def.htm 04:37:24 meingbg: Just suffix d0 and you get a double (as in 0.0d0). 04:37:26 before you signed on.... coincidence? 04:37:38 drewc: There are no coincidences. 04:37:51 nyef: ah, a suffix. that's right. 04:39:22 Ahh. Indexes start from 1 in this format. No wonder I'm seeing stray zeros. 04:40:36 I see I can use exponent markers now, so there's no way to catch errors like this? 04:41:32 xuanwu: You can catch them when and where they happen, which is at read time and around the call to READ. 04:43:12 ok I'm going to learn things about "read time" now. Thanks. 04:46:25 Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.103.240] has joined #lisp 04:46:32 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-194-60.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:47:51 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:48:05 just to be sure, I didn't call READ function anywhere, as (defun geterr (expr) 04:48:05 (handler-case (eval expr) 04:48:05 (error (condition) 04:48:05 (format t "just error")))) and I ran >(geterr '(- 1 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0)) 04:48:06 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:19 Neat. I actually managed to get a 3d object mesh to display. 04:48:54 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 04:49:08 xuanwu: There's an implicit READ involved in the toplevel loop that reads each command as you enter it. 04:49:18 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c023h065.dorm.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 04:50:39 ah... 04:51:38 Tordek [n=tordek@host29.190-138-170.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:51:42 Okay, it's almost midnight here, and I've just finished my "last hack before bed", so I'm going to sign off now. 04:51:54 xuanwu: Best of luck. 04:51:57 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 04:52:05 night. thanks again 04:58:45 -!- CrazyEddy [n=Pleuroto@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:59:16 nyati [n=timmy@thbh-ip-vsat-2-p254.vsat.telkom-ipnet.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:01:44 sexybaaron [n=sexybaar@c-68-42-43-61.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:56 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.103.240] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:03:17 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-148.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:41 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-148.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:06:48 CrazyEddy [n=cyclist@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 05:07:22 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-148.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:22 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 05:09:02 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-148.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:10:02 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-148.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:54 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-83b9835c5b9ec820] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:13:45 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["off"] 05:14:28 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:17:20 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-132-3.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["falows galera!!! boa noite ...see ya everybody!!! good night!"] 05:17:41 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c023h065.dorm.reed.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:19:19 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@pool-173-77-252-7.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:19:42 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:07 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:23 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-192-99.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:29:08 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-192-99.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:15 -!- nyati [n=timmy@thbh-ip-vsat-2-p254.vsat.telkom-ipnet.co.za] has left #lisp 05:30:06 -!- toteadler [n=toteadle@pool-71-126-64-202.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:34:17 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-93-14.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:36 I think I'm going blind again--is there an easy way in sbcl to disable warnings about external symbols? 05:39:06 -!- saikat__ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:39:53 I think I found a bug in SBCL 05:40:18 Hi, my name is Fusss and I'm from the American Hello World Society. 05:41:25 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:26 fusss pasted "can I has stack-overflow error on compile time? purty please?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80954 05:41:28 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:41:52 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 05:42:15 accessor redefinition just causes recursion error, aka DWIM 05:42:41 it just hangs sbcl (thanks to TCO?) 05:43:09 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-196-176.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:36 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:18 same in clisp, interesting 05:45:18 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 05:46:19 -!- plage [n=user@83.224.64.17] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:46:43 plage [n=user@83.224.64.17] has joined #lisp 05:46:49 Good morning. 05:46:57 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 05:47:20 xuanwu: clisp gives an stack exhaustion error right on the spot. it's sbcl that hangs. 05:47:24 hey plage! 05:49:23 Where can I find a decent guide on nested quasi-quotes? 05:49:58 a CLtL2 appendix, perhaps? 05:50:44 though i would prefer to read a few more fun decent guides on other things, quotes, quasi or otherwise, just pain me 05:51:42 milanj [n=milan@93.86.186.59] has joined #lisp 05:52:05 They give me pain too, that's why I'd like to read up on 'em. 05:52:19 -!- jlf [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:53:49 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-149-27.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:53:53 -!- xuanwu [n=xuanwu@c-98-223-235-49.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:53:56 Steele wrote the code in the appendix so he could understand quasi-quotes better himself 05:54:16 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-130-128.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:33 usually when Steele explains something to himself, I'm left even more stupified. 05:54:51 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-148.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:56:20 pfhaust [n=mike@c-71-227-167-254.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:20 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 05:57:03 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:58:27 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 05:58:31 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 06:01:50 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.186.59] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:03:16 plage: how's ELS? 06:04:01 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:04:15 hello 06:06:37 Modius_ [n=Modius@67.67.196.176] has joined #lisp 06:06:41 I'm trying to write an update loop for a simple text game and build it incrementally (using SBCL + slime + emacs). However it locks up the server and it won't let me compile and use the new functions until the current set has finished processing. 06:06:58 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.143.96.147] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:07:28 And if the game loop is always running until it's supposed to quit, that's a problem! 06:07:49 What am I missing? 06:08:30 compiling an SBCL with threads would be the easy solution 06:09:04 hefner: nice effin catch there :-) 06:09:17 pfhaust: lemme guess, you're on Windows? 06:09:32 okay, that would less easy :) 06:09:46 M-x slime-restart-inferiour-lisp is your foe 06:10:22 for threaded Windows programming you use commercial sbcl, aka LispWorks with Edi's yobo package ;-) 06:10:47 bordeaux-threads will shelter you from the luxury of LispWorks and keep a consistent sb-experience! 06:11:48 I'm on osx, so I think I can compile it with +threads using macports. 06:11:51 -!- sphex [n=nobody@74.56.138.185] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:12:24 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:12:30 *hefner* sits back and watches as fusss hurls headlong through the windshield toward conclusions 06:12:47 no need, i own the mat 06:14:45 mega1 [n=mega@3e44afbf.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:14:55 ASau [n=user@host75-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 06:16:22 pfhaust: do you have :SB-THREAD in your *features*? 06:16:57 compiling right now, but will check when it finishes 06:17:13 elurin` [n=user@85.99.196.118] has joined #lisp 06:17:33 type "#+sb-thread t" into the repl, without the quotes, and see if it return T or hangs 06:17:38 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.196.118] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:18:56 i just configured a 5 piece speaker set for my laptop, and i must say, makes me feel invincible playing it so loud :-) 06:20:36 nostoi [n=nostoi@163.Red-79-156-244.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:16 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 06:21:36 anyone remember the name for that book by Peter Lee on advanced programming languages design and implementation? 06:21:51 hardcover book with ocean blue and white design 06:22:52 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:23:30 there is "Topics in Advanced Language Implementation" edited by Peter Lee, but I'd describe it as green rather than blue and white. 06:23:49 hefner: :-) 06:23:52 that's the one 06:24:12 it had various Lisps, smalltalk and other stuff right? I wore it out in the George Mason library 06:24:29 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-196-176.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:24:50 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 06:24:58 there are some series of computing books that you just know are all good 06:25:52 -!- elurin` [n=user@85.99.196.118] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:26:21 elurin` [n=user@88.254.100.112] has joined #lisp 06:28:28 it's mostly lisp and scheme. I don't see any smalltalk. A little C++, a prolog variant, some language-agnostic material. 06:28:31 alright -- #+sb-thread t now returns t. 06:29:24 -!- plage [n=user@83.224.64.17] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:30:21 pfhaust: party on :-) 06:30:32 hefner: never mind then 06:31:02 i was searching for text that had L. Peter Deutch's original trick for speeding up polymorphic method dispatch 06:31:35 he inlined effective method computation, IIRC 06:31:57 brb, abusing a few substances outside .. 06:33:00 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:43:41 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:45:22 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:47:22 we will let that one pass and give some chump a chance to be wrong on the internet .. 06:47:58 Gertm [n=user@94-224-174-232.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 06:50:34 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-34-75.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:51:56 adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has joined #lisp 06:53:14 -!- sexybaaron [n=sexybaar@c-68-42-43-61.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:54:32 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@163.Red-79-156-244.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 06:55:41 -!- elurin` [n=user@88.254.100.112] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:56:16 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 06:58:31 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:03:28 -!- A_anekos is now known as anekos 07:06:48 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 07:07:16 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@67.67.196.176] has quit [Client Quit] 07:07:32 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-196-176.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:15 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:11:23 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:16:00 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-221-129.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:34 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-130-18.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:04 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-221-129.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:30 mgr [n=mgr@213.239.218.99] has joined #lisp 07:26:36 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-b3068f34236ba018] has joined #lisp 07:27:00 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:28:09 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:28:38 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-221-129.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:31:16 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-196-176.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:32:25 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 07:36:29 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 07:41:10 jmbr [n=jmbr@79.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:42:24 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-9-205.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:44:15 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:44:28 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:44:35 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 07:44:39 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-192-99.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:45:08 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-34-75.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:45:08 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 07:45:10 not much traffic here is there 07:45:30 any europeans here? 07:45:41 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-78-239.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:46:12 addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 07:46:12 good morning 07:46:17 now there is a froggy.. 07:46:29 morning mvilleneuve 07:46:42 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:47:40 sorry for that old not so endearing tearm for french 07:48:21 200 years of war etc... 07:48:22 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:50:03 you're mistaking the french for swedes, mate 07:50:27 swede really? 07:50:46 aren't you norwegian? 07:50:52 That would be a nabor since I'm in Norway. 07:51:09 hello younder 07:51:14 when did .no fight for 200 years with the french? 07:51:26 ah, that was going to be my next question :) 07:51:29 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:51:31 -!- meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:51:59 fusss: I was born in Los Altos (silicon valey) Californa. But have lived in Norway since 1970 07:52:35 younder: oh, you lost yank! put down that scull and drink your beer at out of a can, like the rest of us dogs! ;-) 07:52:41 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-192-99.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:55 lol 07:53:24 why that forsaken, and highly developed, place? 07:54:00 drafael1 [n=tapio@118.90.128.153] has joined #lisp 07:54:46 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:54:56 actually, that question would apply to me as well. I was born in Somalia, but live near Washington D.C. now. go wherever you may, let the wind take you, etc. (but seriously, norsk?) 07:55:28 Ja jeg er Norsk 07:55:52 i bet you sound tacky to a Swede. 07:56:01 Acutually bi-lingual 07:56:12 fusss: true 07:56:29 brb, smoke 07:57:28 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 07:57:32 Where are you from fusss 07:57:35 ? 07:59:07 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-48-21.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:01:58 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 08:03:59 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 08:07:31 *younder* has just taken up opera (bariton) to the great annoyance of my nabors 08:08:02 -!- pfhaust [n=mike@c-71-227-167-254.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:09:00 younder: I am Somali-American, my mom is arab 08:09:41 in the southern germanic dialect of England, nabors is spelled "neighbors", iirc 08:09:47 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:10:02 fusss: and you smoke?! Bad, bad. You should stop it. 08:10:23 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@20.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:10:23 i smoke many things, which one is the bad one? 08:10:44 All of them! :-) 08:11:01 xan [n=xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 08:11:21 younder: btw, wikipedia says the only people who the French have been at war with for 200 years are the dentists 08:11:49 heh :) 08:13:05 pjb: will stop in 2 weeks after i move to australia; a pack of marlie lights is $11 :-( only $4 here 08:14:19 younder: he goddag så :-) 08:14:45 hey guys any ideas for the name of an xml/html/xhtml generating library? 08:14:56 cl-gen-xml 08:15:06 ilitirit: are you making one, or searching for one? 08:15:18 package nickname: #:bloat 08:15:29 Davse_Bamse, i already made one, it's called tpd2.ml but i want to kick it out of tpd2 08:16:02 why not cl-who? 08:16:09 ilitirit: can you write an installation guide for the clozure people? at least two of them where here asking about it 08:16:25 fusss, what problems did they have? 08:16:53 it should be the same as for sbcl . . . (i use clozurecl on my server because it's too small for sbcl) 08:16:58 meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:59 ilitirit: they seemed like newbies brought here by the blogosphere 08:17:03 younder: im from DK 08:18:23 figures 08:19:22 Davse_Bamse: why are there so many programming language designers out of .dk? 08:19:32 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:19:35 obscure PL designers, i might add 08:19:54 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:20:24 i dont know.. but yes there is O_O i havent thought of that! 08:20:47 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:21:01 might be the beer :-) 08:21:11 or that there is little else to do :-) 08:21:13 you have your own school of Ada/Eiffel dialects up there 08:21:32 o_O and sml 08:22:48 I remember reading Hegel's biography; he wrote to a friend why he went to Jena and listed a long list of intellectual reasons, closing with "ein gut beir" ;-) 08:23:11 hehehe :-) 08:24:25 *fusss* adores his collection of Vikings Library books on philosophy :-) 08:25:00 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 08:25:06 *fusss* reaches for another bottle of this: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/2896893785_ae2fe918c0.jpg?v=0 08:25:36 yum! 08:25:41 better, topical, link http://www.flickr.com/photos/eraserhead5/2896893785/ 08:26:35 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@79.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:27:42 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:27:45 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 08:37:06 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:37:32 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 08:41:36 any reports from ELS? 08:43:36 mega1: beach and Xophe are there, and a few other regulars. still no reports. 08:44:40 these laggy old timers will keep us waiting weeks for a blog entry 08:45:19 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:34 Heh! 08:52:54 -!- l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 08:54:18 gonzojive [n=red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 08:57:45 *younder* is listening to the magic flute 08:57:56 I love Motzart 08:58:56 In fact I listen to the magic flute every sping 08:59:38 no way, you must come late sometimes and play it in the summer 09:00:00 *fusss* is rocking Motown 09:00:11 lol, summer comes late to Norway 09:00:21 younder: do you still have snow? 09:00:29 no we don't 09:00:31 younder: how far up in norway do you live? 09:00:38 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:00:38 Oslo 09:00:40 I'm out of blow myself 09:01:31 Davse_Bamse: asking someone "do you still have snow" sounds allot like askling if they're "holding", i.e. have cocaine ;-) 09:01:41 lol 09:02:14 fusss: >_> he could be having cocaine :-) who knows 09:02:25 younder: is there many lisp jobs in oslo? 09:02:26 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 09:02:29 just beer 09:02:46 yes, there are actually 09:03:09 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-112.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:03:11 Edward_ [i=Ed@90.3.134.49] has joined #lisp 09:03:15 if he was, he would have used more of the personal pronoun. I can quote all coke-heads off the top of my head, and this is what they sound like: "I, me, I, myself, me, I, and I" 09:04:05 There is Prime Tarder and Selmer Furuholmen and Telenor. 09:04:13 Trader 09:04:51 In all about 200 proffesional developers 09:05:07 sounds great :-) 09:05:18 And I didn't mention the university 09:05:22 now i know what to look for if I ever is going to norway for a job 09:09:11 ELS: They have too much fun to be thinking reporting it here... :-( 09:09:35 200 lisp developers in Oslo alone? That's a lot more than I would've guessed. Is it the same thing in other capital cities? 09:09:54 Köpenhavn, Stockholm, Helsinki..? 09:10:04 Wouldn't think so. 09:10:10 me neiother 09:10:23 meingbg: programmers tend to concentrate ini capitales. It's stupid given the Internet, but companies still prefer to do head counts manually. 09:10:25 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 09:11:15 matimago: Name one profession that is location-independent...? 09:11:39 FSF activist 09:11:42 meingbg: internet webcam stripper! :-P 09:12:21 travelling craigslist prostitute 09:12:33 philosopher 09:12:58 gzip4 [n=xxx@ws102.zone134.zaural.ru] has joined #lisp 09:13:41 the undergraduate philosopher would say it's not independent because he has to manifest somewhere 09:14:18 Perhaps. As for the manual headcount in software companies... why not count your own head? 09:14:57 better yet, do the manual head count in your head. imaginary employees are fairly portable, geo-wise. 09:15:07 hello. if i have socket stream for example to xmpp-server, may i do reading and writing from different threads? 09:15:14 (That is to read: how many of you have been thinking of starting your own company) 09:15:15 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:15:41 gzip4: depends on where the socket descriptor is stored; globally or locally? 09:15:57 meingbg: we're launching June 1st 09:15:57 fusss: how's that? 09:16:13 meingbg: you mean everyone counts himself one and then they send a mail to everyone else with the number "1" in it and that's how you solve the headcount summation 09:16:31 benny: Kind of. 09:16:37 I like it! 09:16:41 no point in starting a business until after the US collapses and the smoke clears 09:16:53 fusss: really? who's "we"? 09:16:54 after the fallout 09:16:56 gzip4: how did you open the socket? (let ((sock (connect-socket ...)) ... X) is only visible in 09:17:15 fusss: That's pretty soon, btw. 09:17:17 meingbg: me myself and two other friends; online ad network for the middle-east 09:17:23 -!- cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 09:17:33 meingbg: it's done, just tightening up some CSSS 09:17:36 CSS 09:18:14 fusss: i open socket and pass it to two thread-functions, one should only read from it and another should only write 09:18:15 meingbg: we cried, sweated and bled. nothing new. 09:18:16 fusss: So you basically have your product done? Sounds cool. 09:18:21 Art07 [n=user@84.23.62.56] has joined #lisp 09:19:14 gzip4: if you opened the socket before you launched the two threads, chances are both threads can see the socket. if you launched two threads and connected/accepted a socket in one, only that can see, unless you assigned it to a global variable. 09:20:02 global vaiables are copied on a pr. thread basis 09:20:11 meingbg: i had users from day one, basically. nothing is done, you keep customizing what you have as more people join in. matter of daily trade-offs between yesterday's specs and where you want to go tomorrow. 09:20:20 that is the entire environment 09:20:26 fusss: i can see that. i meant is that possible to read or write independantly? 09:20:33 younder: special variables are shared, if i'm not mistaken 09:20:43 prip_ [n=_prip@host13-135-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:20:54 That ia a optimation issue 09:21:05 is 09:21:29 -!- prip [n=_prip@host13-135-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:21:35 gzip4: yes, if it's a bidirectional socket. better let one thread do the talking and let another send requests to talk on its behalf to the other (iow, code with explicit IPC, like you're still using fork, it's the cleanest way) 09:21:45 How did you market the thing to get users already from start? Using your own service?:) 09:21:58 fusss: 09:22:07 Logically they are seperae. And if you assign a value to a variable it will only show up locally 09:22:17 seperate 09:22:18 ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.159] has joined #lisp 09:22:43 meingbg: i wrote the ad optimization platform and told people "get your own advertisers, let them pay you privately, and let me deliver their banner ads on your behalf". 09:23:06 meingbg: i contacted every arab company i could see in google ads and told them we're better than google 09:23:34 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:23:53 fusss: thanks a lot 09:24:05 np 09:24:09 fusss: Nice. 09:25:42 fusss: try it 09:26:10 younder: try what? per-thread special variables? 09:26:24 that's the one 09:26:29 i know what the answer is to that; i run sbcl "daemons" 09:26:52 i access the global variables just fine from every thread 09:27:01 well I run hunchentoot 09:27:16 so do i 09:27:34 you can even run lexical variables that enclose your threads 09:28:33 how? 09:29:18 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 09:30:07 s/run/see/ 09:30:15 (let ((foo "this is visible)) (make-thread #'(lambda () (format nil "I sees foo as ~a~%" foo)))) 09:30:29 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:30:42 you can "fork" as many threads as you want in the body of that LET and they all see foo 09:30:45 now SEE is different 09:31:09 yeah, you couldn't "run a variable" ;-) 09:31:23 But could you alter it? 09:31:24 lol 09:31:35 http://vbgurumaster.blogspot.com/ <-- I know it's offtopic and apologise profoundly, but it's just too good to pass 09:31:41 That was the issue 09:31:52 No you can't! 09:32:07 I mean, would alterations be visible to other threads started from the same lexical env? 09:32:22 You can alter it locally, but not globally. 09:32:37 meingbg: yes, you could alter and they would be visible 09:33:15 what? 09:33:16 handy, that. 09:33:26 mathrick: awesome 09:33:37 terrible.. 09:33:57 mtd: yes, I now want to start my own CL guru master blog, except that I think I was beat to that 09:34:03 *fusss* just notices he doesn't have bt on linode box #3 :-S 09:34:09 -!- l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 09:34:16 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.126] has joined #lisp 09:34:35 *younder* denies su on box2 09:34:56 npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 09:36:14 -!- Gertm [n=user@94-224-174-232.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:36:15 crap, i should have learned SB-* packages, instead of the clean, better designed, portable wrappers. 09:36:47 :) what are you talking about? 09:37:15 i was trying to write a test case for threading, but i'm helpless without bordeaux-threads; never bothered to look at sb-threads 09:37:36 ahh 09:38:01 npoektop pasted "format and read" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80961 09:38:09 ditto with usocket and iolib; i know them better than sb-bsd-sockets and sb-(posix|unix) 09:38:33 mathrick: you could explain the CLOS analogue of "The common sample is the wall plug. If I have the plug for the wall, then I can plug it in, otherwise the abstract factory needs to do work" 09:38:44 oooh, ooh! 09:38:54 I shall do that 09:39:17 fusss: I am more familiar with LispWorks myself. Just changed to sbcl.. 09:39:39 npoektop annotated #80961 "problem with read" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80961#1 09:39:41 lispworks is my favorite sbcl emulator 09:39:56 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 09:41:16 mathrick: .NET tor TurboVision? http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6731/3816/1600/DockModalForm.jpg 09:41:43 fusss: what? 09:41:57 mathrick: nice :) 09:42:08 fusss: younder: It is indeed possible to share lexical variables among threads, and to alter them. 09:42:25 yo! why does it read before first format? http://paste.lisp.org/display/80961 09:42:30 meingbg: tell it to younder please :-P 09:42:42 I heard 09:43:02 npoektop: before *which* format? there are two 09:43:09 But this could be pretty useful, actually. 09:43:19 npoektop: force-output, finish-output if you don't want buffering in between 09:43:33 -!- Art07 [n=user@84.23.62.56] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:44:07 *younder* is frustarted but coherent 09:44:08 fusss: force-output? 09:44:11 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 09:44:30 younder: search this for (incf *shared*) file:///C:/clisp/bordeaux-threads_0.5.1/test/bordeaux-threads-test.lisp 09:44:40 errr, or the online equivalent ;-) 09:44:42 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 09:45:02 nothing shows up 09:45:39 aww, sorry 09:45:45 :-) 09:46:30 npoektop: the output of FORMAT is buffered 09:46:50 force-output sends the formatted buffer to the output and returns immediately 09:47:05 finish-output doesn't return until the output is delivered 09:47:14 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@20.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:47:35 fusss: ok, thanks, i'll try to find some info about that 09:47:40 negligible different for screen I/O, but you will note it for network i/o, etc. 09:47:51 s/different/difference/ 09:49:31 *fusss* is jamming to Iggy 09:49:38 so you are running winoze fusss? 09:49:50 yes, i'm the resident XPer 09:50:06 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-130-18.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:50:13 slackware linux actually, as I'm also the resident VPSer 09:50:18 I run dual 09:50:24 sbcl doesn't have threads on win32 09:50:46 sometimes XP sometimes ubuntu 09:51:09 fusss: true, I run LispWorks there 09:51:28 XP lisping is an uphill task sometimes; but i keep it all portable and run stuff on LW + sbcl-win32 09:51:54 *fusss* was surprised by the speed of Ironclad earlier 09:53:05 alright, it's almost 6AM; gotta go home 09:53:09 good nite all! 09:53:14 I like ccl for windows. 09:53:15 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-93-14.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 09:53:29 good night fuss 09:53:50 -!- Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving..."] 09:53:50 and a extra s 09:54:08 fusss: take it easy. You need rest sometimes. 09:55:45 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.136.50] has joined #lisp 09:56:56 sleep tight 09:57:19 ahh, he's already disconnected 09:57:22 smh [n=smh@155.56.40.240] has joined #lisp 09:58:12 so.. anyone here use alexandria? 09:59:50 just one function I think. 10:00:11 http://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria/ 10:01:00 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@118.90.128.153] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:01:34 -!- ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.159] has left #lisp 10:01:42 ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.159] has joined #lisp 10:01:50 -!- ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.159] has left #lisp 10:02:04 drafael [n=tapio@118.90.129.40] has joined #lisp 10:02:26 ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.159] has joined #lisp 10:02:30 -!- ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.159] has left #lisp 10:02:50 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:02:52 ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.159] has joined #lisp 10:02:56 -!- ocnzhao [n=hgsghrnj@122.159.58.159] has left #lisp 10:07:06 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:08:08 elias` [n=me@resnet-pat-254.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:09:24 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:09:36 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:11:16 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:11:28 adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has joined #lisp 10:11:45 ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has joined #lisp 10:12:34 desu pasted "call function on an array" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80962 10:12:57 my lambda seems to be unable to set the values in the array... what am i doing wrong? 10:13:41 -!- smh [n=smh@155.56.40.240] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:13:52 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:15:49 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-129.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:16:27 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-129.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #lisp 10:16:46 desu: you are only setting the local variable a of the lambda 10:16:54 oh... 10:17:04 damn... why didn't i think of that... 10:17:19 any way to make it pass a reference instead? 10:18:47 You need the construction (setf (aref array index) value) for setf to generate the correct code. 10:19:01 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:19:12 desu: how about passing the array and index to the lambda ? 10:20:14 that kinda defeats the purpose of arr_call :/ 10:21:26 any other way to do it? 10:21:44 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:22:36 desu: There is another way. 10:22:48 how...? 10:23:39 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 10:23:51 desu: (setf (aref arr i) ((lambda..) (aref arr i))) 10:24:11 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-114-96.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 10:24:31 desu: That way the lambda will set a value no matter what, so if you don't want to change for some values you'll need to return what's already there. 10:24:51 hmm... yeah... 10:24:55 thanks... 10:25:11 np 10:27:06 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-205.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 10:27:18 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:28:22 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 10:30:37 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:33:58 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 10:36:54 -!- kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.180.160] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:37:15 kenjin_ [n=kenjin@163.152.180.160] has joined #lisp 10:41:48 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:48:24 -!- MrSpec 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error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:25:00 Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:25:24 Hey guys, is there some way to copy a CLOS object? 12:25:49 Joreji: you have to implement your own copy method. 12:26:46 matimago: Hm okey. Thanks. 12:27:08 desu: you may also have a look at: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/1799d5db9267c523?hl=en&dmode=source 12:27:10 -!- tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:27:23 desu: (defun f (*v) (incf (deref *v))) (let ((x 2) (v (vector 1 2 3))) (f (& x)) (f (& (aref v 1))) (values x v)) --> 3 , #(1 3 3) 12:27:37 ah, thanks, matimago 12:27:47 desu: of course, you'd do that only if you insist on programming in C with CL... 12:28:03 :/ 12:28:32 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:28:39 pjb: that's not general enough, it doesn't support arbitrary places!!! 12:29:04 kpreid: read the source in the usenet post! 12:29:27 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-205.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:29:50 Wel, since (setf deref) is a function, the only "place" that is not supported is (VALUES x y ...) 12:30:04 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:30:21 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 12:30:34 Oh...right. Well, it multiply evaluates, so there :) 12:30:53 (& (aref v (incf i))) will not do the right thing 12:31:03 Right. 12:31:09 I'll have to work on it... 12:33:22 http://paste.lisp.org/display/6927#1 12:33:50 Thanks. 12:33:57 envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:34:40 strictly speaking, there could be setf expanders which are not happy being closed over and reused... 12:35:23 Aren't they the setf expanders that are called 'misbehavied'? 12:35:35 clhs get-setf-expansion 12:35:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_get_se.htm 12:36:07 5.1.1.2 says "The value returned by the accessing form is affected by execution of the storing form, but either of these forms might be evaluated any number of times." 12:37:13 And I don't see any license for dynamic extent, so yeah it works. 12:37:29 -!- jewel [n=jewel@41.145.64.64] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:38:01 -!- Edward_ [i=Ed@90.3.134.49] has quit ["« La POO c'est bien beau, mais en C au moins on va droit au but. »"] 12:38:19 Yes, that sentence seems to say so. 12:39:26 -!- timor [n=martin@w4919.dip.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:42:57 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:43:18 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:58 Is there some eql function that returns t if 2 instances of objects have the same type and all their slots (inherited and direct, shared and local) are the same? 12:45:09 no 12:45:36 Too bad :/ 12:46:09 Joreji: what do you mean by "slots are the same"? 12:46:21 jdz: Have the same value. 12:46:23 envi_home2 [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:48:19 there is a tinge here of the principle that it's up to the programmer to specify what it means for two instances to be equal 12:48:23 Joreji: equal and copy are related. See: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/EQUAL.html 12:48:28 similarly for copy 12:48:35 Jasko [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:47 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:49:06 -!- segv__ is now known as segv 12:49:07 trivially, "do I compare this slot by pointer or by value" and "do I copy this slot" depend on "does this get mutated?" 12:49:09 Joreji: is 4 equal to 4.0? 12:49:26 or to "4" ? 12:49:37 well, let's not get into perl 12:49:56 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:50:21 Hm, I understand. 12:52:31 there is a way to define a fully generic and often DWIMing copy, actually: (read-from-string (prin1-to-string object)). *IF* your objects are readably printable, this is often what you want. 12:52:34 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 12:52:37 Gertm [n=user@mail.dzine.be] has joined #lisp 12:52:49 of course, the typical clos instance nobody's bothered to make readably printable :) 12:53:08 coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has joined #lisp 12:53:25 and for good reason, in some cases :) 12:53:26 Guess I'll go with user defines copy constructors and compare operators. 12:53:36 defined* 12:54:01 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 12:56:02 CLOS is for you then 12:56:21 I'ts all explicit 12:56:22 -!- envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:57:26 Well, at some point I'll figure out a way to write a macro to do these automagically :) 12:57:38 Stuctures are all so shady 12:58:09 It's already a macro 12:58:51 you define a macro and you will cut off the fine points 12:59:54 Joreji: a lot of people use the defclass* library 13:00:08 s/a macro/a new macro/ 13:01:08 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:32 dlowe: I'll check it out, thanks. 13:01:51 Anyhow if you want to get down and dirrty you shoud read "The Art of Meta Object Protocol" first 13:02:58 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:01 If for no other reason than to understand the object systems foundations 13:04:17 http://books.google.com/books?id=3X5Gnudn3k0C&pg=PA8&dq=%22The+Art+of+MetaObject+Protocol%22#PPP1,M1 <-- the art of metaobject protocol 13:05:13 younder: Maybe another time. For now I'd like to first do some programming first - been reading OnLisp & Keenes book on CLOS for the past few days. 13:05:49 They are good choices got them both 13:06:14 on-lisp in book form? 13:06:33 Davse_Bamse: Cool thanks, this will spare me the way to the library :) 13:06:39 HG` [n=wells@xdslfa193.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:06:40 I really wish that Gregor's book had been out when I implemented CLOS for MCL. It's still missing a full MOP because of that. 13:06:43 younder: No, the online one. 13:07:08 Yeah, the book form is rare. 13:08:07 Strange. There's no copyright page in that Google copy 13:08:25 Joreji: no it wont :-) as far as I could see was it only a preview :-) 13:08:30 On Lisp is rare? That's funny, I picked it up at B&N in 2003 13:08:52 billstclair: you were an MCL developer? 13:08:59 Yep. 1990-1995 13:09:05 Whatever happened to MCL, anyway? There was some talk of open-sourcing 13:09:12 You can still get a copy, used, but it is not in print. 13:09:15 it was opensourced 13:09:16 Davse_Bamse: Aw. Oh well a little bit of fresh air won't do much harm :) 13:09:17 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp370.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 13:09:23 It is open source. Gary Byers recently made it work under emulation on intel macs 13:09:24 what else did you expect to happen ? ;p 13:09:33 oh, really? 13:09:36 must take a look 13:09:37 Of course, most of the core code went to Clozure Common Lisp 13:09:45 I always quite liked the GUI 13:09:51 But Clozure has not caught up with MCL's GUI code 13:09:52 -!- klausi [n=klausi@92.193.34.75] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:09:56 Though we're working on it 13:09:57 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 13:10:16 I work for Clozure now 13:10:31 hopefully in cocoa this time :) 13:10:33 I SLIME 13:10:34 Though I don't work much on the Lisp. Contracted out for $$ 13:10:41 Yes, in Cocoa 13:10:47 (apple sseems to have decided to let carbon die) 13:10:47 I SLIME too 13:10:53 I know 13:11:45 probably should have done it long time ago 13:11:51 better late than never 13:11:55 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:12:06 ah, they barely had it for any time at all :) 13:12:22 it turned up in 1999 or so 13:12:25 You'd think there's be a standard, cross-platform, GUI API by now. 13:12:46 look at mcCLIM 13:12:51 As some Java guy said, we'll never build the Starship Enterprise if we keep rewriting everything every five years 13:13:08 It has potential 13:13:12 billstclair: Well, there are cross-platform GUI APIs; it's just that they're generally not very nice :) 13:13:29 billstclair: wxWindows is probably about as good as it gets 13:13:38 If those assholes would just port it to windows 13:13:41 I have written exPython code. Not difficult 13:13:45 wxPython 13:13:56 wxWindows 13:14:14 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440412.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 13:14:16 younder: now those assholes definitely won't, just to spite you. 13:14:23 EasyScript350404 [n=EasyScri@200.129.136.46] has joined #lisp 13:14:25 should work cross porably 13:14:28 oh, it's not generally difficult for the programmer to get a GUI 13:14:29 -!- EasyScript350404 [n=EasyScri@200.129.136.46] has left #lisp 13:14:33 But lots of people have relegates their GUI to the web browser 13:14:33 antifuchs: lol 13:14:36 relegated 13:14:48 but it's generally extremely difficult to make something that looks sensible/native on the major platform 13:15:12 *rsynnott* suspects that Sun's motivation in designing Swing was to have something that looked wrong everywhere :) 13:15:18 heh 13:15:54 Sorta like the tempered scale. Can play in any key, equally out of tune 13:16:41 antifucks: maybe there is momething I can do? 13:16:55 something 13:17:22 younder: you could write another backend for it! 13:17:41 *billstclair* goes back to generating HTML 13:17:49 I would like to make mcClim a standard 13:18:20 rsynnott: now if it only *worked* 13:18:57 You see I come from CAPI so I'm cida spoiled 13:19:18 p_l: if what only worked? :) 13:19:26 rsynnott: Swing ;P 13:19:37 Java 13:19:49 I'm getting tired of running Java apps in separate X server under twm :D 13:19:52 You can make that work 13:19:58 by people who will support you despite your insults? I suppose paying mcclim contributors money would be a start. 13:20:35 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:21:11 antifucks: Did I insult anyone (besides you)? 13:21:33 oh, only the rest of those assholes 13:21:37 antifucks: my regrets.. 13:21:50 *rsynnott* suspects it would be rather expensive, what with win32 13:22:00 antifucks: I feel pationatly about a portable GUI. 13:22:12 and there I was, thinking you were on your way towards becoming a productive member of this channel. oh well. 13:22:24 lol 13:22:36 abuse = use 13:22:44 idiotic habits die hard, I suppose. 13:23:21 I'll see what I can do antifucks 13:25:37 Believe it or not I like you 13:27:09 I too hope to be a productive member of this channel. 13:27:46 It will require some work though. 13:27:56 lnostdal_ [i=lnostdal@149-234-40.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 13:28:50 younder: alternatively, you could just try being nice to people, like a normal sane person 13:28:55 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:29:22 rsynnott: I am not a sane person 13:29:55 -!- kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-66-68-183-235.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["leaving"] 13:30:00 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-234-40.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:30:09 rsynnott: I am a arrogant impuedent asshole.. Ie.. a programmer 13:31:31 hi inosdal_ 13:31:35 <_3b> does FILE-POSITION not work with trivial-gray-streams? 13:31:42 younder: Cool definition. 13:33:45 tsuru` [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:51 -!- frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:35:05 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:35:11 _3b: does trivial-gray-streams:stream-file-position work? 13:35:16 -!- envi_home2 [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:35:30 <_3b> stassats: yeah, but sbcl calls sb-gray:stream-file-position 13:35:51 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.220.32.160] has joined #lisp 13:35:55 <_3b> apparently i was using a locally patched copy of trivial-gray-streams, guess i should have sent that patch somewhere :p 13:36:24 what should it call? 13:36:48 -!- danlei [n=user@pD954FB6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:38:32 <_3b> either trivial-gray-stream should import sb-gray:stream-file-position, or it should define a method for it that calls t-g-s:s-f-p 13:39:11 <_3b> not really sure which though 13:39:42 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 13:39:45 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:14 grey streams a soo slooow 13:40:34 gray 13:40:35 *_3b* cares about development speed more tha stream speed atm 13:40:57 carbocalm [n=user@64.40.185.82] has joined #lisp 13:42:38 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 13:43:00 -!- ASau [n=user@host75-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 13:49:09 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:53:10 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 13:55:20 dat [n=dthomp@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:36 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:56:20 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.4.153] has joined #lisp 14:00:57 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.4.153] has left #lisp 14:01:20 *madnificent* cares about _3b 14:01:52 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:02:55 Lets give a bit of advive 14:03:15 gray streams are too slow 14:03:32 You will get dragged in 14:03:40 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 14:04:02 so use bivalent streams instead 14:04:30 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 14:05:14 <_3b> younder: how would that help? 14:05:45 give me the source.. 14:06:53 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:07:16 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.220.32.160] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:07:36 <_3b> younder: (flex:with-input-from-sequence (s (chipz:decompress nil 'chipz:zlib stream)) ... ) 14:07:42 <_3b> younder: that source you mean? 14:08:21 yes, except use paste.lisp.org 14:08:51 <_3b> why, the ... is just 1 function call, ind unrelated to the issue 14:09:01 <_3b> s/ind/and is/ 14:09:26 paste the lot 14:09:47 not just the problem 14:10:00 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.4.153] has joined #lisp 14:10:08 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.4.153] has left #lisp 14:10:26 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:10:32 danlei [n=user@pD9E2FA58.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:41 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:11:28 That way we can hurt you better. 14:11:35 <_3b> don't think the entire project would fit on lisppaste, and not sure what you want to see 14:11:45 s/hurt/help/ 14:12:12 just the file in question. 14:12:37 <_3b> what was the question? 14:13:17 what is flex and what is chipz? 14:13:40 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.4.153] has joined #lisp 14:13:42 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.4.153] has left #lisp 14:13:49 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:13:49 <_3b> minion: flexi-streams 14:13:50 flexi-streams: FLEXI-STREAMS is a library which implements "virtual" bivalent streams that can be layered atop real binary/bivalent streams. http://www.cliki.net/flexi-streams 14:13:58 <_3b> minion: chipz 14:13:59 chipz: Chipz is a Decompression Library for decompressing DEFLATE data, defined in RFC1951. http://www.cliki.net/chipz 14:15:08 *_3b* is using gray streams for in-memory streams, not for bivalent streams 14:15:32 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has quit ["leaving"] 14:15:50 sorry, that should be OK then 14:16:13 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 14:16:15 borism [n=boris@195-50-204-130-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 14:19:14 envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:19:15 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.4.153] has joined #lisp 14:19:24 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.4.153] has left #lisp 14:22:02 source (what little I've seen of it) looks fine to me 14:28:14 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118.90.129.40] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:31:11 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 14:32:53 akway [i=602aa812@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-26d1f62344a73232] has joined #lisp 14:33:00 -!- akway [i=602aa812@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-26d1f62344a73232] has left #lisp 14:34:20 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:36:57 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-130-18.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:06 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:39:51 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:39 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 14:43:32 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 14:43:55 wakenbake [i=43b9b222@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1f4143b49c09e6dc] has joined #lisp 14:44:56 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 14:46:09 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Client Quit] 14:57:12 -!- envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:57:57 dv_ [n=carlos@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:59:16 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:00:08 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@208.45.247.237] has joined #lisp 15:01:50 -!- Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:01:51 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-55.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:02:11 Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:08:20 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 15:09:52 hi antifuchs. 15:10:46 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:10:56 antifuchs: Is there a chance for getting boinkmarks for more implementations, like ccl, or ecl? 15:12:10 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483AD1F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:43 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 15:14:32 dys [n=andreas@p5B31707E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:02 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:17:04 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:18:36 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:18:57 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 15:19:19 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:10 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-26-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:20:27 dysinger [n=tim@166.129.135.115] has joined #lisp 15:21:31 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:22:15 parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:32 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:28:04 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 15:29:16 milanj [n=milan@79.101.139.166] has joined #lisp 15:29:54 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:31:06 -!- fredbard [n=fredMobi@64.254.161.204] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:31:16 fredbard [n=fredMobi@admin161-204.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 15:37:05 -!- lnostdal_ is now known as lnostdal 15:37:10 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:37:31 deepfire: here? 15:38:05 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 15:38:20 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl710.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 15:38:54 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit ["Be back later"] 15:41:50 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-26-55.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:44:00 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-26-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:44:19 is there anything like tenjin (http://www.kuwata-lab.com/tenjin/) for lisp? 15:46:54 konr: there's something modelled after Perl's HTML::Template that has worked well for me. I'm not familiar with Tenjin though. 15:48:12 kuwabara pasted "backquote inside backquote" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80971 15:49:54 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:51:15 kuwabara annotated #80971 "Sorry, first one fixed" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80971#1 15:51:38 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:52:39 How can I evaluate a comma in the context of the first backquote when inside a second backquote ? 15:53:38 kuwabara: some interesting discussion/links at http://bc.tech.coop/blog/041205.html 15:55:03 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-26-55.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:55:43 kuwabara: ,',res 15:55:44 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:09 tcr: thanks! 15:59:00 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:00:07 matley [n=matley@host169-132-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:01:47 ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has joined #lisp 16:03:32 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit ["bye"] 16:09:23 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-78-239.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:11:08 beach: herep 16:13:11 /minion: memo for beach Re: typing for programmers: to a question whether there's anything he would have done differently about learning to program Ken Thompson replied: "Oh sure. In high school I wish I'd taken typing." 16:15:09 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:17:19 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 16:18:14 ausentv [n=lhugbj@187.34.44.18] has joined #lisp 16:19:22 -!- dalton [n=lhugbj@187.34.44.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:19:24 -!- carbocalm [n=user@64.40.185.82] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:19:26 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:51 -!- ausentv is now known as ausente 16:24:15 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:24:54 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 16:25:16 tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:09 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-130-18.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:29:23 gigi [n=gigi@94.162.131.151] has joined #lisp 16:29:30 ciao 16:29:35 !list 16:30:27 -!- gigi [n=gigi@94.162.131.151] has left #lisp 16:36:08 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 16:38:11 Is UTF8 compatible to iso-latin-1-unix? I copy and paste from a buffer which is encoded in the latter format to the slime-repl, and send that over to the swank side, and the connection is supposed to be encoded using utf8. 16:38:17 I wonder why that seems to work just fine 16:38:33 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:40:14 the lower 7 bits should be the same, I think 16:40:36 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:41:03 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:41:23 pstickne [n=pstickne@71.20.212.115] has joined #lisp 16:41:29 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:54 Yes, but what I paste contains a non-ascii character 16:42:08 oh, that's weird, then 16:42:12 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:42:27 plage [n=user@83.224.64.17] has joined #lisp 16:42:30 Good evening. 16:43:04 <_3b> are you cutting/pasting binary data somehow? 16:43:06 why wouldn't it work fine? 16:43:20 gigamonk`: Now I am. 16:43:49 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@71.236.25.127] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:44:05 plage: how's the party? 16:44:23 gigamonk`: I am sure it is pretty good, but it is largely ruined for me because of bad news from Bordeaux. 16:44:31 I meant that for slyrus_ 16:44:48 -!- Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:44:56 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 16:45:02 -!- dat [n=dthomp@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:45:15 gigamonk`: What I was going to tell you was that I think learning to touch type must have been THE most useful class I took in school. 16:45:42 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit ["Am I missing an eyebrow?"] 16:46:04 Wow, Peter Seibel is now a monk? 16:46:05 slyrus_: I missed half of the tutorial by Krystof, and then couldn't concentrate on the remaining half, so I just left :( 16:48:29 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-130-128.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:48:33 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-205.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:48:36 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-205.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:49:41 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:50:09 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:50:10 jsnell: I paste it as a string, and I get back the same string. I'd have guessed that the returned string would contain funny characters. 16:51:00 funny? as in utf8 16:51:47 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.9.141] has joined #lisp 16:52:14 you should know that hunchentoot converts to iso-latin-1 is poddible 16:52:25 possible 16:52:42 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 16:54:44 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:55:37 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@74.125.59.1] has joined #lisp 16:55:54 dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 16:57:36 Dinner time. Talk to you later. 16:57:38 -!- plage [n=user@83.224.64.17] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:58:30 that should be "if possible" 16:59:12 didn't the entire world convert to utf8 yet? 16:59:47 N. 17:00:26 lol 17:00:32 N? 17:00:48 -!- bobf_ [n=bob@host81-158-233-170.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:01:07 just utf8 jackulating 17:01:54 á' íh. óá lóvé y Íí kéyóá. 17:02:02 benny [n=benny@i577A0CC7.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:02:05 Kay, enough slacking for now. 17:02:14 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-34-75.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:03:22 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483AD1F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:03:25 fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:26 What's the difference between 'string' and 'simple-string' ? As in (simple-string-p "J. Hart") vs (stringp "J. Hart") 17:04:31 We have all been there 17:05:13 jrockway_ [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 17:05:13 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:05:20 fph: see the differance between simple-array and array. 17:05:30 fph: IIRC, a simple string only contains base characters. A string may contain character. 17:05:54 so I probably want simple-string for names, places then 17:06:11 no that's a simple-base-string 17:06:13 you probably shouldn't care. 17:06:19 fph: No, you want strings so you can get internationalization support 17:06:25 Ah yep, base-strings. 17:06:26 (if it exists) 17:06:27 -!- jrockway_ is now known as jrockway 17:06:32 a simple string can'tbe resized 17:06:55 ah, that sounds like it younder 17:07:03 these are constants 17:09:09 a simple array is no :adjustable and not :displaced-to fph 17:09:28 well, I never knew that either :-( 17:09:59 well learn :) 17:10:26 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:27 no local classes, in fact I read c.l.l. for sample code for a few months, then read ACL 17:11:20 Try "Practical Common Lisp" by Peter Seibel 17:11:42 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:11:52 Also known in this group as gigamonkey 17:11:55 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 17:12:09 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:12:13 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:12:15 I have seen it, not interesting by now 17:12:23 fph: for example, adjustable strings may be used with write-ouput-to-string: : (let ((s (make-array 0 :adjustable t :fill-pointer 0 :element-type 'character))) (with-output-to-string (out s) (princ "Hello " out)) (with-output-to-string (out s) (princ "World!" out)) s) --> "Hello World!" 17:12:34 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:13:07 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:17 fine. 17:13:36 But it seems a bit excessive for that 17:13:52 so it would also work with a declared simple string of appropriate length pjb 17:13:58 Of course, this is just a small example. 17:14:01 hehe 17:14:09 and array size 0 is a bad choice 17:14:24 Yes. The essential part is that with-output-to-string needs a fill-pointer. 17:14:54 ah, I see 17:16:04 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 17:19:21 you know that with-output -to-string can allocate it's own array? 17:19:40 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:20:09 so the LET bit is redundant 17:22:49 and ONE with output to stream 17:24:23 Yes, I know, but this form is here to demonstrate something else. 17:25:19 pjb: what exactly 17:26:07 How a string that is not a simple-string can be modified. 17:26:12 it worked for me 17:26:46 that's true as it is a array 17:27:24 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:27:59 you can always do a (setf (aref...) ...) 17:28:35 ALWAYS 17:28:53 s/modified/extended/ 17:29:54 simple strings are NOT constants 17:30:07 By they cannot be extended. 17:30:07 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:30:13 true 17:30:51 well, in my code, they are not constants either, and when I understood pjb's example, I saw that (stringp ...) was the correct choice 17:31:37 fine- 17:32:37 I haven't seen your code. 17:32:50 I can fix that 17:33:28 so fix it! 17:34:03 paste.lisp.org remember 17:34:12 in process 17:38:39 fph pasted "for younder" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80981 17:39:59 The first question that comes to mind is why defstruct instead of defclass? 17:40:21 great, lisppaste's url got changed again 17:40:44 blackened`_ [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 17:41:20 rullie [n=rullie@129.97.143.69] has joined #lisp 17:41:40 stassats: ? 17:41:46 no need for classes, structures are trivally printable 17:42:20 well the code trivially works 17:42:31 of course 17:43:12 the string-p bit might not do what you expect 17:43:23 dandersen: (If you're still here.) Actually I am sort of a monk. http://www.gigamonkeys.com/monk.html 17:44:05 the fricken upstream that supplies the data parsed into the structures is changing formats, so 'nil's pop in on me 17:44:07 gigamonk`: Haha, when did that happen? I don't remember seeing that on your website. 17:44:24 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:29 dandersen: it's been there forever; it's just not linked to from anywhere. 17:44:53 gigamonk`: Awww well, it's good to know. =] 17:44:56 gigamonk` Actually I'm more for the other guy§ 17:47:15 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:47:40 i am looking for a function that will change the value of two variables a=>2 b=>3 (fn a b) a=>3 b=>2 17:47:52 use let 17:48:07 (setf a 2 b 3) 17:48:09 it works in paralell 17:48:26 no not setf 'let' 17:48:35 younder but after the let they will be reversed again? 17:48:39 swap values? 17:48:42 yes 17:48:43 gotta run, phone call oh well 17:48:46 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigipaladin 17:48:52 *gigipaladin* just re-took the quiz. 17:48:56 rotatef 17:49:03 thats it thx 17:49:03 clhs: rotatef 17:49:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_rotate.htm 17:49:19 klausi: Depends onwhat you do with the values 17:49:22 -!- gigipaladin is now known as gigamonkey` 17:49:31 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:49:42 klausi: of course that's a macro not a function 17:49:58 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:50:26 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:50:28 rotatef is for when you wish to swap n element's in a array 17:50:45 is that what you want 17:50:51 slyrus_: rotatef looks very nice 17:50:54 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:51:30 very well rotatef it is 17:53:14 I suppose I needn't remind you to be careful of destructive functions. 17:57:21 -!- dv_ [n=carlos@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 17:58:56 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-1c8ca9bda54070ed] has joined #lisp 18:01:21 -!- froydnj [n=froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:01:59 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:02:13 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:03:15 -!- rullie [n=rullie@129.97.143.69] has quit ["leaving"] 18:06:01 BrianRice [n=briantri@70-1-233-64.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:27 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 18:09:10 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.132.250] has joined #lisp 18:09:32 rullie [n=rullie@129.97.143.69] has joined #lisp 18:10:26 Metaleiro [n=lhugbj@189-19-118-119.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:10:47 silenius [n=jl@dslb-088-073-100-103.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:10 macroes 18:12:38 I suppose I needn't remind you to be careful of destructive macroes. 18:13:28 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 18:13:39 worse than functions.. 18:14:07 *younder* shudders 18:14:27 I got a C flashback 18:14:31 -!- ausente [n=lhugbj@187.34.44.18] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:14:46 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@70-1-233-64.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [] 18:14:47 coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:23 -!- rullie [n=rullie@129.97.143.69] has quit ["leaving"] 18:17:17 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:17:20 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:18:52 novaburst [i=nova@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has joined #lisp 18:19:07 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:20:06 tcr: you left tcr:debugmsg 18:20:25 antoni [n=user@236.pool85-53-32.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 18:26:40 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:27:01 ejs 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19:04:01 stassats: yes, thanks 19:04:04 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 19:04:27 cadabra [n=cadabra@17.224.12.65] has joined #lisp 19:04:43 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:04:55 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@17.224.12.65] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:05:13 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:05:27 Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-200-84.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:50 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 19:07:54 dys`` [n=andreas@p5B31707E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:34 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:09:13 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 19:10:43 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-221-129.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:13:47 -!- xan [n=xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit ["leaving"] 19:14:47 -!- stassats 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quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:36:54 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:40 -!- dys`` [n=andreas@p5B31707E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:43:51 hi, if I have two lists of the same size '(1 1 1) '(2 2 2) what's a nice way to add each corresponding member... ie. => (3 3 3) 19:44:36 mapcar #'+ 19:44:47 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:45:13 ramus`: thanks 19:45:36 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:49:19 aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:49:56 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0CC7.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:51:28 -!- dandersen is now known as Bullsh_t 19:52:35 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:53:07 -!- Bullsh_t is now known as dkcl 19:53:54 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:54:27 -!- dkcl is now known as dickle 19:55:06 -!- jawn- [n=dicks@daemon.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:56:06 cadabra [n=cadabra@17.244.25.47] has joined #lisp 19:57:26 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@17.244.25.47] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:57:32 -!- Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving..."] 19:57:37 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:42 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.132.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:57:43 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:58:51 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 20:00:10 xan [n=xan@9.Red-83-42-12.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:20 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-9-205.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:00:43 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslfa193.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:04:38 cadabra [n=cadabra@17.244.25.47] has joined #lisp 20:06:23 wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 20:06:39 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@17.244.25.47] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:08:11 dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 20:11:17 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:12:41 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:12:47 i want to multiply a list of numbers. but its possible that there are sublist. (??? '(1 2 1 (2 1)) => 4 i can write a function that does that is there some predefined way to do it? 20:13:59 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-065-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:37 you could write a flatten function and then use reduce I suppose 20:14:48 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:22:18 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [] 20:22:42 parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:01 kmcorbett [n=Keith@12.107.74.4] has joined #lisp 20:30:59 -!- novaburst [i=nova@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has quit ["leaving"] 20:31:24 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-26-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:32:23 pjb` [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:51 -!- pjb [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:35:46 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@12.107.74.4] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:36:08 kmcorbett [n=Keith@12.107.74.4] has joined #lisp 20:37:59 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-112.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:38:31 syntaxfree [n=eigenmac@189.99.75.201] has joined #lisp 20:38:46 why is it that people say newLISP is the PHP of Lisp? 20:38:47 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:38:58 Because it's crap. 20:39:54 well, I've learned Scheme from SICP and moved on to Haskell. (It's just a hobby). How is newLISP worse than Common Lisp? 20:40:16 Just my opinion, based on prejudices, not facts. 20:40:22 newLISP isn't worth discussing here 20:40:40 syntaxfree: it's worse because it didn't learn from lisp history. 20:42:13 pjb: what lessons did it miss? 20:42:23 Lisp 101 20:42:30 20:42:58 duh. I'm not trolling; I'm looking at the Wikipedia page after someone said it was a step forward and a thousand steps backward. 20:43:40 Once in a while I look at the lisps to see if there's a substitute for Matlab or Stata there. There was one numerically-oriented Lisp whose name I forget. 20:43:42 syntaxfree: I suggest you look into the matter yourself. I didn't think much of it either. 20:44:10 right now I'm just getting snobbishness. 20:44:15 is that even a word? 20:44:39 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:46:14 No, _I_ was trolling. 20:46:25 syntaxfree: if you search newlisp on cll (google groups), you should get a number of threads exlpaining its deficiencies. 20:46:42 pjb: that's an useful reference. thanks. 20:47:00 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:17 interestingly enough, newLISP has a link to a Twitter search in its homepage. 20:47:26 interesting cultural divide. 20:48:34 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/39a9e50aa548637f/ is good 20:48:49 syntaxfree: that's the problem with all these new languages php, perl, python, ruby, java, newlisp, etc. They are technically inferior, but benefit from a lot of marketting buzz. 20:49:49 isn't ruby basically a smalltalk makeover? 20:49:57 LOL, no way. 20:50:10 I was kidding, of course. 20:50:20 Just in case. =P 20:50:26 syntaxfree: I find it has closer roots in lisp. From its author's confession himself. It's nicknamed MatzLisp... 20:50:32 I call it MatzacredLisp. 20:50:47 pjb`: That's why I've always loved you. 20:50:49 But I've seen hardcore Haskellers speak highly of "Ruby metaclass hackery" 20:51:23 (Every language is "technically inferior" to Haskell and/or ML almost by definition) 20:51:25 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:51:43 Blub blubbity blub blub. 20:52:54 I find little evidence of actual lisp influence in ruby 20:52:55 er, you really should google "Haskell". 20:53:15 jsnell: you've not seen my Ruby code :-) 20:53:45 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.249.216] has joined #lisp 20:53:47 any clbuild people around? i encountered what i think is a missing dependency in the ucw project. 20:54:05 I'm sure you're capable of writing lisp-inspired fortran too, that hardly means that fortran is massively influenced by lisp 20:54:41 jsnell: http://paste.lisp.org/+1QHM 20:54:47 Ruby has most of its obvious influence from Smalltalk and Perl. 20:56:40 pjb`: Aaaaaaaaaah! 20:57:33 if the best example of lisp influence is writing some shim layer on top, which would get you fired if used in a ruby shop, you're pretty much making my case :-) 20:59:13 jsnell: you could be 'fired' from a ruby shop for much less. While parenthesizing almost all the Ruby expressions won't earn you any points, I have been critizied on pure Ruby stuff for being too lispy... 21:00:26 I mean, in any X shop, you live dangerously if you know more X than the Xers... 21:03:17 au contraire. we're a team of three. one groks SAS, the other Matlab and I do Stata. That's job security at the bay. 21:03:41 Granted, I know some Matlab, but I'm five times as productive in Mata/Sata. 21:03:48 s/at the bay/at the source 21:10:15 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [] 21:11:55 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.245.216] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:14:25 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:15:23 -!- syntaxfree [n=eigenmac@189.99.75.201] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:15:29 s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-168-237-139.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:35 pjb`: that is terrifying 21:16:10 if I came across that without explanation I'd just assume that it was a deformed lisp-esque thing, a la newlisp 21:16:47 "I know how we can make everyone happy ... blocks AND parens!" 21:17:08 pjb: you get extra derangedness points for obeying the ruby indentation conventions 21:17:36 for full marks, implement loop 21:17:56 or possibly the pathname system :) 21:19:21 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:19:46 -!- s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-168-237-139.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:20:42 Has someone deviced a reader macro for table.sourceforge.net style tables? 21:21:45 s0ber_ [i=pie@118-160-165-20.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:23 rsynnott: hence my opinion on Ruby... 21:22:53 Well, ruby-mode still works better on that than lisp-mode :-( 21:23:38 A friend of mine quickly hacked this python algorithm for finding primes given a range: http://wklej.org/id/97408/ 21:24:02 how would you go about porting this to CL? 21:24:05 *p_l* wonders if his CL influences might prove problematic in getting work in a ruby shop... 21:24:11 (does newlisp still exist, anyway? Why hasn't it vanished into obscurity, like Arc and microsoft's robotic table?) 21:24:44 rsynnott: because of the 'new' in 'newLisp'. 21:24:50 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-12-41.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:12 jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:45 antoszka: Looks like just Eratosthenes' Sieve. 21:26:04 authentic: http://darcs.informatimago.com/darcs/public/lisp/common-lisp/primes.lisp 21:26:15 eek, exceptions used for flow control! 21:26:16 -!- jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:26:18 pjb`: did you mean antoszka? 21:26:25 jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:32 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-12-41.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:41 rsynnott: "Because we can." 21:26:44 antoszka: yes. Sorry for the uncontrolled completion. 21:26:58 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 21:27:08 -!- s0ber [i=pie@118-160-175-130.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:27:19 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-173-76-163-72.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:27:37 pjb`: This is wonderful, but I was wondering if there are set operators analogous to the stuff in Python allowing for such concise code in this case. 21:27:45 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@ip70-162-187-21.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:27 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 21:28:44 antoszka: yes. First, there are set operators on sets represented as lists: union, intersection, set-difference. But they'll be slower. 21:28:50 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-12-41.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:28:50 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Client Quit] 21:29:19 antoszka: then you may operate on bit vectors or on integers LOGAND et al, and BIT-AND et al. 21:29:39 they're slower in python, too, of course, where it matters rather more 21:29:59 (oh, except maybe they're not, I suppose; they'll presumably be implemented in C) 21:30:39 Would any of you be bothered to rewrite this algorithm in Lisp? 21:30:54 I don't have an idea myself. Don't know enough yet. 21:31:02 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-194-31.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:05 antoszka: I would be, yes. I wrote my primes package to not have to write it again. 21:31:50 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-12-41.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:32:36 pjb`: Yep, what I was wondering is whether it's possible to keep the conciseness of the python code. 21:32:55 pjb`: the alg. is basically two/three lines. 21:33:07 Of course, it's possible. 21:33:08 pjb`: and your implementation is much larger codewise. 21:33:41 antoszka: Of course you can reimplement the python primitives in Lisp. Would you want to? Probably not. 21:33:55 antoszka: you could use cl-python. 21:34:00 drforr: I was asking whether there's an analogue. 21:34:29 c.difference_update(xrange(2*i, z, i)) 21:34:43 for this method in particular. 21:34:51 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:35:00 (setf c (set-difference c (xrange (* 2 i) z i))) 21:35:16 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:35:38 CLPython has the primitives you need. 21:35:54 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-200-84.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:36:12 clpython has xrange?! 21:36:18 isn't it a rather new thing? 21:37:23 -!- wakenbake [i=43b9b222@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1f4143b49c09e6dc] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:37:30 <_Pb> i know this gets asked all the time and is irrelevant, but what's the range of static executable sizes you see in common lisp? 21:37:34 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:39 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:37:47 (defclass py-xrange (object)...) 21:37:56 _Pb: With ecl you can make executable as small as in C. 21:38:01 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:38:10 _Pb: depending on the implementation, non-existent to dozens of megabytes 21:38:18 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:26 <_Pb> whoa! 21:38:29 well, for me personally, about 50mb to 120mb, depending on if it's 64bit or 42bit, but that's just the one app :) 21:38:40 *rsynnott* meant 32 bit, of course 21:38:49 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:38:52 <_Pb> what flavor of cl are you using? 21:38:57 O 21:39:03 sbcl 21:39:15 I'm a fan of clisp, I also use sbcl, or any other implementation depending on the circumstances. 21:39:18 (on linux, in that case) 21:39:44 ccl tends to do it rather smaller, IIRC 21:40:02 and lispworks has a tree-shaker, but is expensive 21:40:30 <_Pb> i may as well try ccl seeing i'm on a ppc mac 21:40:45 <_Pb> ecl looks nice as well 21:40:56 ccl is your only option there, if you want threads 21:41:04 (non-commercial option) 21:41:22 oh actually maybe ecl can do threads on macos 21:42:04 i use ccl on my ppc mac. it's nice. 21:42:13 <_Pb> ah 21:42:29 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:42:37 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:47 <_Pb> yeah, i'm about to go through on lisp, i'll be using macros pretty heavily 21:47:21 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 21:47:22 /join #ecl 21:47:26 Whoops, sorry 21:47:44 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44afbf.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:50:00 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:50:14 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 21:50:31 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:38 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-194-31.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:52:27 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:52:48 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has quit [] 21:53:07 -!- Metaleiro is now known as Dirac 21:53:53 -!- Dirac is now known as Tauller 21:59:45 -!- derekv [n=derekv@c-76-112-240-178.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:01:58 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:02:33 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 22:02:40 pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:17 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:04:27 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["destroy, despise, distrust, disobey, distrust, disarm, destroy, dispise, dissect, deny, destroy, despise, distrust... love is] 22:09:30 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 22:09:47 -!- dickle is now known as dkcl 22:09:53 hi all 22:10:19 previously known as younder 22:12:06 but don't be fooled, I'm still the arrogant inpertinent asshole I always was :) 22:12:50 jthing: donkeyhole? 22:12:53 (but, at least I'm honest) 22:14:06 Jarvellis: sodomy is beyond me (perhaps it is for you) 22:14:24 jthing: ass means donkey 22:14:45 no it soesn't 22:14:52 doesn't 22:16:14 Or old Norse for Deity apparently 22:16:16 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:16:18 Interesting coincidence 22:17:24 there is no norse deiety called ass 22:17:48 you mean the asgard? 22:18:11 -!- younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:18:25 Áss is the masculine form of one of the Aesir. 22:18:28 Old Norse 101 22:18:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Áss 22:18:39 Vanr is the masculine form of one of the Vanir. 22:19:06 ahhh the asgard? 22:19:06 Don't know how to say "deity", but there's always the word "gud" (with a weird "d") 22:19:20 Isn't asguard the place? 22:19:27 Ás (Genitive of Áss) + Gard (Realm) 22:19:33 Gardr, actually. With a weird "d". 22:19:33 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@208.45.247.237] has quit [] 22:19:45 gud usually means Joshua (our god) 22:19:47 ð? 22:19:50 Yup! 22:19:54 You own a god? 22:20:07 Joshua as in Yehoshua? 22:20:20 That is, Jesus. 22:20:31 Oh, he's no god of mine 22:20:44 Nor mine. 22:20:47 that much is clear 22:20:56 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B31707E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:21:02 parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:50 I like the other guy 22:22:09 Which other guy? 22:22:09 lucifer 22:22:22 lol 22:22:25 Any slime developer here? 22:22:27 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has left #lisp 22:23:28 Religious trolling ftw. 22:23:51 whatever. 22:24:09 Hey, I'm a troll as well. On Thursdays. 22:24:23 dkcl: what timezone are you in? 22:24:26 I'm a professional coder most of the week except for Thursdays and Fridays. 22:24:34 Jarvellis: GMT+1, so it's Friday now. No more trolling. 22:24:40 dkcl: It's Friday, already. 22:24:47 *dkcl* knows. 22:24:55 dkcl: GMT +1 is 2324 22:25:03 Fine, so GMT+2. 22:25:07 00:23 here. 22:25:07 dkcl: what happens on Thursdays and Fridays? You turn a cook or an amateur programmer? 22:25:11 no, GMT is 23:24 22:25:18 daylight savings time 22:25:21 0:30 here 22:25:26 pjb`: I turn into a flamer on Fridays. 22:25:44 jthing: Your timezone is 7 minutes off dkcl's timezone. 22:25:45 rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:50 -!- silenius [n=jl@dslb-088-073-100-103.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:25:52 That's unusual. 22:25:55 Ain't that great. 22:26:09 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 22:26:29 still central europan time 22:27:21 except here it is 0:27 22:27:56 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@201.102.108.21] has joined #lisp 22:28:44 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-26-55.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:28:45 and what do you know of hedge funds 22:31:02 it's like a singularity of drane bammage every night around this time. 22:31:18 *dkcl* burps fire. 22:31:22 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:31:27 Yup, that's it, I'm a flamer. /join #openbsd 22:32:12 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:32 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:32:46 nop, I just bought the postgresql triology plus the fourth Knuth book 22:33:53 *jthing* burps fire 22:34:11 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:34:18 brandelune [n=suzume@pl710.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:34:27 *dkcl* high fives jthing. 22:35:12 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:35:17 -!- Jarv2 is now known as Jarvellis 22:35:30 coderdad [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has joined #lisp 22:36:11 Any slime hackers here? 22:36:16 rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 22:37:01 Slime seems to be somewhat incompatible with table.el (table.sourceforge.net). 22:37:58 in what way? 22:38:01 keybinding collisons? 22:38:23 let's see the source 22:38:24 -!- Tauller is now known as ausente 22:38:43 only way to be sure.. 22:38:45 let's not 22:39:33 paste.lisp.org 22:39:58 one second. 22:40:16 Haha. 22:40:49 (there is a size limit) 22:41:23 http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2798155&group_id=14137&atid=214137 22:42:08 well, you are editing lisp in tables? 22:42:24 gotcha 22:43:13 editing lisp in tables? 22:43:30 most confusing. 22:44:13 Table driven design is a pretty good software development technique sometimes. :-P Really. Google "table driven design". 22:44:42 I was going to install a reader macro on +- to handle tables. 22:45:01 Spacebar is what causes conflicts. 22:45:24 oh so a key conflict 22:46:12 well so override the default Spacebar command 22:46:21 duh 22:47:30 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:47:31 To perform both things? Sure, could you tell me how? I'm not even conversational in emacs lisp. 22:47:56 meingbg: Ever read a .emacs file? 22:48:00 both of what? 22:48:26 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-210.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 22:48:39 dkcl: No big ones. 22:49:00 You should! 22:49:29 meingbg: does it work with lisp-mode but without slime? 22:49:45 stassats`: Yes 22:50:23 jthing: Well, slime does have some kind of binding on space, right? to do a function argument and such? This table thing also has a binding on space, it needs to make sure not to malform the table... 22:50:48 I guess I should override the spacebar command to do both, thus solving the conflict? 22:50:50 ahhh 22:51:33 well the lack of packages in elsp does create problems 22:51:39 elisp 22:52:05 Time to start writting emacs stuff in emacs-cl... 22:52:09 it does, but that's not a case 22:52:30 it should be mode local 22:52:45 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2FA58.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:53:10 jthing: You mean there is no way to refer to both of these two commands? 22:53:35 there is 22:54:05 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-205.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:56:01 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:58:21 There is CUSP for Eclipse IDE if you do not want to use emacs if you can get it working 22:58:22 pehaps you could look at my .emacs file.. 23:00:05 rakista: Well, is there a similar table plugin for eclipse? 23:00:24 http://paste.lisp.org/+1QHR. 23:00:35 Do not know 23:01:16 this table.el doesn't work for me at all 23:01:22 particulary look at the 'global-set-key' 23:02:02 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:03:25 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EE2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:03:45 jthing: ok. 23:03:58 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:48 stassats`: Have you tried it without slime-mode? 23:04:59 yes 23:05:03 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:11 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:05:47 Hmm. In fundamental mode (require 'table) M-x table-insert was enough. 23:05:50 for me. 23:06:38 it's three years old, no wonder 23:06:45 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:06:54 (i'm using emacs 23) 23:07:12 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit ["leaving"] 23:07:36 slackaholic [i=1000@187-24-154-110.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:08:05 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:08:21 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 23:08:28 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:08:41 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:08:41 stassats`: I'm at 22.1.1. Could that explain my slime UTF-8 problems? 23:09:01 yes 23:09:46 good. Then I know what to do. 23:09:52 it fails on some large code-points 23:10:49 It does. It hangs up the connection, and sometimes produces 30 second long error outputs. 23:15:56 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:16:00 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:49 deepfire_ [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 23:17:02 -!- deepfire_ [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Client Quit] 23:20:06 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@208-45-247-237.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:19 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:55 projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 23:24:26 -!- tttsssttt [n=pussycat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:25:00 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:25:13 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:19 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-215-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 23:26:19 let's try that again (don't see my text in the logs) 23:26:22 my app hovers around ~80MB under normal load, but when i test it under peak traffick, it grows to 170MB (which is not bad for 1MM concurrent users :-) however, when the simulation of peak traffick ends, and i get rid of all memory (by setting some defparameters to nil), the memory is not released and it stays at 170MB. Another run of the test takes it up 200MB, and so on. 23:26:27 this is on sbcl 23:26:42 fusss: according to what measure? 23:26:52 do you have persistent threads? 23:26:57 sb-kernel::dynamic-space 23:26:59 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-24-154-110.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:27:07 no threads; testing on unithreaded win32 sbcl 23:27:33 isn't sb-kernel:dynamic-usage better? 23:27:35 fusss: you're not creating a symbol per user or anything? 23:27:40 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-65-75.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 23:27:53 (also, what is this million user thing?) 23:27:59 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:28:06 stassats: that's what i meant 23:28:27 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@84.42.251.245] has joined #lisp 23:28:45 housel [n=housel@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 23:28:46 tttsssttt [n=pussycat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:46 conservatism might bite you, but it should stabilise after a while 23:28:52 rsynnott: i am simulating web app usage with pure clos; i'm creating most hunchentoot classes within the app; REQUEST, REPLY, SESSION, etc. a self-container hunchentoot ecosystem 23:29:34 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:29:42 hold on, lemme try to attach a finalizer to the main objects and see if i get a note .. 23:30:07 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:23 -!- stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:31:05 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.9.141] has quit [Dead socket] 23:31:13 pkhuong: you rekon? I can even let it load-balance itself; the objects can be persisted in a database and i can instruct a server to launch another when it reaches a high-water mark of 300MB or so, my VPSes have 360MB or something 23:31:26 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.9.141] has joined #lisp 23:31:36 fusss: if it was due to the GC being conservative. 23:31:41 dysinger_ [n=tim@166.129.2.194] has joined #lisp 23:31:45 lispm style of GC-by-suicide ;-) 23:32:26 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-204-130-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:33:53 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@84.42.251.245] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:33:55 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:34:53 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 23:36:36 stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:45 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-24-158.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:19 -!- projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has quit [] 23:49:27 bhyde [n=Adium@c-66-30-202-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:09 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:50:56 -!- dysinger [n=tim@166.129.135.115] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:51:22 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:52:47 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:53:14 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@74.125.59.1] has quit [] 23:53:16 *hefner* tested some code on a not so much older sbcl, was distressed to find his friend sb-vm::sign-extend was not there to greet him. 23:53:17 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:56:26 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:36 -!- dysinger_ [n=tim@166.129.2.194] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:56:45 -!- dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:59:41 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-065-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"]