00:02:03 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:04:03 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@228.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:06:00 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:08:07 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@80.135.244.94] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:09:37 amblerc [n=user@178.sub-75-219-98.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:39 -!- jophish [n=jophish@80-47-44-71.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:12:32 Need a hand with format'ting out a 10-digit long int, left-padded with zeroes. 00:13:06 (format t "~10,'0d" num) 00:13:39 thx 00:14:05 awful syntax. never sticks to the memory. 00:15:08 that's why god gave us the hyperspec. 00:15:10 Looking at the clqr, can't see where the ' comes from. 00:15:19 Lots to learn... 00:15:28 always. 00:16:52 Kent Pitman is not God, and the format section is one of my least favorite. 00:17:09 Note the small 'g'. :-) 00:17:52 hefner: pathnames. 00:18:07 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:18:09 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 00:18:12 danlentz [n=user@c-68-46-6-17.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:17 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 00:20:00 00:20:00 [Tue May 26 2009] 00:20:00 *** You have joined channel #lisp [20:18] 00:20:00 *** Topic for #lisp: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming 00:20:03 language . New: CFFI 0.10.4, SBCL 1.0.28, 00:20:06 Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.14, cl-net-snmp 5.19, 00:20:10 yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, series 2.2.10, CMUCL 19f. 00:20:13 *** #lisp: topic set by luis, 09:25:27 2009/05/20 00:20:16 *** Users on #lisp: danlentz amblerc sellout HET2 jmbr_ gigamonkey 00:20:19 parodyoflanguage iceknight kpreid antoszka bobf dreish peterc sepult 00:20:23 chessguy sohail rakista gottesmm plutonas Jasko sjbach slyrus_ 00:20:25 Ginei_Morioka elurin` authentic birdsbite legumbre ASau stassats` cpc26 00:20:28 mikezor_ doxtor Modius pstickne UnwashedMeme milan delYsid projections 00:20:31 mrsolo ausente Patzy jsoft dialtone rread_ ken` wgl daniel_ amnesiac tseug 00:20:34 KingThomasV pitui Jarvellis eno__ jajcloz c|mell 00:20:38 *** Users on #lisp: leo2007 willb ivank X-Scale cracki jkantz tsuru` 00:20:41 bobbysmith007 Corun|away blackened` cmm segv trebor_dki Phoodus _5pitphir3 00:20:44 madnificent jeremiah elias` dto` benny JuanDaugherty pjb gmlk vy lemoinem 00:20:44 bdowning oconnore ssttss panzer`kunzt TekLok srcerer Axioplase_ S11001001 00:20:47 myrkraverk Quadrescence tcoppi rumbleca Adamant r0bby phadthai dmiles_afk 00:20:50 Ppjet6_ billstclair ``Erik jho konr1 yango s0ber mathrick Krystof blbrown 00:20:52 A cat walked over your mouse? 00:20:53 younder bob_f xinming freethin1-home 00:20:54 Aww, and I thought someone was talking to me! 00:20:58 *** Users on #lisp: sbahra nowhere_man heanol_ sphex_ BrianRice Martinp23 00:20:59 X-Scale2 [i=email@89.180.194.45] has joined #lisp 00:21:01 spacebat_ mgr stepnem tttsssttt Buganini kidd1 hefner alexbobp Tordek p_l 00:21:04 specbot minion pkhuong lisppaste joast sledge lnostdal pchrist derekv cods 00:21:07 frontiers prip_ blast_hardcheese mornfall Draggor xristos herbieB guenthr 00:21:11 piksi vsync retupmoca` keithr manic12 proq DeusExPikachu rsynnott arbscht 00:21:11 landru, guide us... 00:21:11 thats nice it has the anti-flood timer 00:21:14 Zenton` jrockway fredbard Vutral maxote Bucciarati jlf` Fare djkthx 00:21:14 nenorbot m4thias` erk felipe 00:21:17 *** Users on #lisp: anekos tic bfein noptys thijso peddie smithzv hypno 00:21:22 Dazhbog yahooooo drhodes dcrawford dostoyevsky z` pon][ wasabi__ gz 00:21:25 Khisanth Maddas boyscared kuwabara bun_bun wlr hyperboreean drforr sad0ur 00:21:28 meingbg luis hbock dfox ineiros desu ztzg slyrus jawn- rey_ PissedNumlock 00:21:31 vcgomes l_a_m Qsource foom clog zilt Soulmann ilitirit ecraven mtd joga 00:21:34 kuhzoo kei guaqua krappie ramus` albino matimago _dima fnordus Riastradh 00:21:38 bohanlon Aisling nasloc__ Adrinael 00:21:41 *** Users on #lisp: enn cavelife^ zbigniew Dave2 z0d @drewc erg djinni` 00:21:44 koollman p8m nicktastic glogic _3b chii michaelw deepfire AntiSpamMeta 00:21:44 fgtech Fade pok ccl-logbot Xof rlonstein easyE @antifuchs ironChicken 00:21:47 housel pragma_ azuk Zhivago cYmen egn froydnj johs jsnell tarbo 00:21:49 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 00:21:50 *** #lisp modes: +nc 00:22:09 *** #lisp was created on Sunday 2003/08/03 17:30:32 00:22:09 ERC> /names #lisp 00:22:09 *** Gertm (n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be) has joined channel #lisp 00:22:09 *** Users on #lisp: Gertm danlentz amblerc sellout HET2 jmbr_ gigamonkey 00:22:12 parodyoflanguage iceknight kpreid antoszka bobf dreish peterc sepult 00:22:15 chessguy sohail rakista gottesmm plutonas Jasko sjbach slyrus_ 00:22:16 pkhuong: I guess pathnames were created in an age where we had a larger constellation of file systems to deal with, and it had to be equally awkward with all of them. 00:22:18 Ginei_Morioka elurin` authentic birdsbite legumbre ASau stassats` cpc26 00:22:22 mikezor_ doxtor Modius pstickne UnwashedMeme milan delYsid projections 00:22:25 mrsolo ausente Patzy jsoft dialtone rread_ ken` wgl daniel_ amnesiac tseug 00:22:28 KingThomasV pitui Jarvellis eno__ jajcloz 00:22:31 what the fruit? 00:22:31 *** Users on #lisp: c|mell leo2007 willb ivank X-Scale cracki jkantz tsuru` 00:22:34 bobbysmith007 Corun|away blackened` cmm segv trebor_dki Phoodus _5pitphir3 00:22:37 madnificent jeremiah elias` dto` benny JuanDaugherty pjb gmlk vy lemoinem 00:22:41 bdowning oconnore ssttss panzer`kunzt TekLok srcerer Axioplase_ S11001001 00:22:41 *gigamonkey* still likes pathnames. 00:22:43 op, anyone? 00:22:43 proq: looks like a runaway ERC key combo. 00:22:44 myrkraverk Quadrescence tcoppi rumbleca Adamant r0bby phadthai dmiles_afk 00:22:44 Ppjet6_ billstclair ``Erik jho konr1 yango s0ber mathrick Krystof blbrown 00:22:47 younder bob_f xinming 00:22:48 Presumably a mispaste and they just need to be kicked 00:22:50 *** Users on #lisp: freethin1-home sbahra nowhere_man heanol_ sphex_ BrianRice 00:22:53 gigamonkey: Not only you :) 00:22:54 Martinp23 spacebat_ mgr stepnem tttsssttt Buganini kidd1 hefner alexbobp 00:22:58 Tordek p_l specbot minion pkhuong lisppaste joast sledge lnostdal pchrist 00:23:01 derekv cods frontiers prip_ blast_hardcheese mornfall Draggor xristos 00:23:04 herbieB guenthr piksi vsync retupmoca` keithr manic12 proq DeusExPikachu 00:23:07 rsynnott arbscht Zenton` jrockway fredbard Vutral maxote Bucciarati jlf` 00:23:08 *gigamonkey* hates on logical pathnames, however. 00:23:11 Fare djkthx nenorbot 00:23:14 *** Users on #lisp: m4thias` erk felipe anekos tic bfein noptys thijso peddie 00:23:14 smithzv hypno Dazhbog yahooooo drhodes dcrawford dostoyevsky z` pon][ 00:23:17 wasabi__ gz Khisanth Maddas boyscared kuwabara bun_bun wlr hyperboreean 00:23:20 drforr sad0ur meingbg luis hbock dfox ineiros desu ztzg slyrus jawn- rey_ 00:23:23 PissedNumlock vcgomes l_a_m Qsource foom clog zilt Soulmann ilitirit 00:23:24 *proq* goes back to sleep 00:23:28 ecraven mtd joga kuhzoo kei guaqua krappie ramus` albino matimago _dima 00:23:31 fnordus Riastradh bohanlon Aisling 00:23:32 jstoker [n=jstoker@88-107-222-228.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 00:23:34 *** Users on #lisp: nasloc__ Adrinael enn cavelife^ zbigniew Dave2 z0d @drewc 00:23:38 erg djinni` koollman p8m nicktastic glogic _3b chii michaelw deepfire 00:23:41 AntiSpamMeta fgtech Fade pok ccl-logbot Xof rlonstein easyE @antifuchs 00:23:44 ironChicken housel pragma_ azuk Zhivago cYmen egn froydnj johs jsnell 00:23:44 tarbo 00:23:47 Hey, is danlentz a bot? 00:23:47 00:24:01 tseug: nope 00:24:08 just a poor ERC-using sould 00:24:11 *soul 00:24:19 heh. They are not as bad... CL's pathname system is much nicer than some of the stuff I sometimes see in other languages... 00:24:21 danlentz: i think you better blame emacs for that one. i know i would. ;) 00:24:39 werdan7 [n=w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has joined #lisp 00:25:10 hi. my name is proq and it's been 14 months since my last erc flood slipup 00:25:24 -!- iceknight [n=iceknigh@nas-12-041.dialup.farlep.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:25:42 MJ94 [i=mj94@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:43 mathrick: What's ERC? 00:25:53 proq: ERC Users Anonymous? 00:26:23 tseug: IRC client for emacs 00:26:41 sloppy-erc-users-anonymous 00:26:42 This was frightening. 00:26:45 for emacs? Interesting. 00:27:03 I must be doing it wrong. I've been using ERC for a long time and don't think I've ever done that. 00:27:13 Prodego [n=Prodego@wikipedia/Prodego] has joined #lisp 00:27:17 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@71.236.25.127] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:27:27 I've only done it once, and I think I had just switched from irssi to erc 00:27:31 Never seen it myself either. 00:27:53 proq: How did you summon it then? 00:28:02 I tried to paste a single unicode char and it pasted 300 lines of chat 00:28:11 Neat! 00:28:39 -!- MJ94 [i=mj94@pi.nipl.net] has left #lisp 00:28:47 i'm surprised the system didn't kick danlentz for flooding 00:28:50 isf_ [n=w7@unaffiliated/isf] has joined #lisp 00:29:24 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c023h065.dorm.reed.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:34:07 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:34:32 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:35:53 -!- amblerc [n=user@178.sub-75-219-98.myvzw.com] has quit ["later."] 00:36:04 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 00:37:25 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@rrcs-72-43-19-216.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 00:37:38 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:42 -!- milan [n=milan@77.46.250.97] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:39:32 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.181.250] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:41:37 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:32 hey sorry i'm an idiot and my erc is behaving badly 00:56:53 danlentz: You're not alone using erc. I'm almost surprised I haven't done what you just did. Yet. 00:57:37 pkhuong: I'm not saying I dislike FORMAT, just that its chapter of the hyperspec always frustrates a little when I need its assistance 00:57:40 -!- antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has left #lisp 00:57:41 antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:11 -!- oconnore [n=oconnore@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:59:43 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p3023-ipngn101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:03:00 WormBe_ [n=WormBe@adsl71-119.kln.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 01:03:12 unless, of course, you're saying you don't think the pathname chapter is very well written. =p 01:03:32 I have never even looked at that section. 01:03:32 (you could interpret that two ways..) 01:03:46 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-2b727478311619b3] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:03:59 I want to push a list into a list of lists. With 'append' I would do it in one go but now that I need the new list to be in front of the target how can I do that? 01:04:21 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:04:31 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 01:05:07 it's just a list. doesn't matter what it's a list of. well, what's a list in lisp? 01:05:20 yeah but I can't just push it in there 01:05:28 push takes an element of a list 01:05:33 what is a list in lisp? 01:05:47 *hefner* wonders if his fd-stream doesn't like four threads banging at it with copious debugging output 01:05:53 *pstickne* wanders off 01:05:55 pstickne: what do you mean? 01:06:15 WormBe_: the basic structure of a list :( 01:06:51 is this a rhetorical question? 01:08:36 WormBe_: a list is built on top of conses 01:08:37 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:08:48 WormBe_: well, out of cons cells 01:08:57 yes 01:09:28 think of the list that way, then think how you'd like to manipulate it 01:09:49 a cons consists of a car and a cdr, with the car being the value of that element, and the cdr a link to the rest of the list 01:10:06 shouldn't (append target src) have the same result as (push (list src) target) ? 01:10:11 but on the front side 01:10:12 with push 01:10:20 instead of in the end with append 01:10:38 how would the conses look? 01:10:56 a push can be done without destroying the original and without copying the list 01:12:26 e.g src = ((A B C) (N O)) target = ((D G F) (P M)) so with the push thing I would want: target = ((A B C) (N O) (D G F) (P M)) 01:13:49 WormBe_: so, you can put anything in both the car and the cdr... whatever you want... if the cdr is a cons cell too, you've built a list.. so, say you want to refer to a list from within your list, what would the car contain? 01:14:18 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:15:14 it would contain the list, right? a cons cell... so, why don't you push the list on the other list? 01:15:59 I tried pushing it just like that 01:16:10 but push always takes a single element as argument 01:16:16 besides the assignment, (push a b) does (cons a b) 01:16:20 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:24 -!- jstoker [n=jstoker@88-107-222-228.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has left #lisp 01:16:28 and why don't you make that single element, a list? 01:16:28 it failed to do what I needed 01:16:44 madnificent: I also tried doing that by using (list) 01:16:48 WormBe_: there is no target or source in append. 01:17:20 there is 01:17:31 WormBe_: (defvar *foo* '(a b c)) (push '(c d e) *foo*) does what you explain 01:17:35 ykphuah [i=dd85268a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4aca3141c30e1c85] has joined #lisp 01:17:47 *madnificent* heads to bed, it's two hours later than I thought (and I'm ill already) 01:21:43 -!- danlentz [n=user@c-68-46-6-17.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:26:03 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:26:57 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:32:07 dysinger [n=tim@32.177.62.104] has joined #lisp 01:34:24 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:34:35 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:44 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-130-205.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:35:09 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-73-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:36:16 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c023h065.dorm.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 01:40:56 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:41:28 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@cimbernheim.mhn.de] has joined #lisp 01:42:51 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-225-109.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 01:43:29 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-225-109.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 01:45:50 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:53:19 -!- elurin` [n=user@88.224.45.192] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:58:58 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:59:32 akway [i=602aa812@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-de2689bfb16382f7] has joined #lisp 01:59:38 hey all 02:00:17 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 02:02:39 jlf [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 02:03:57 -!- isf_ [n=w7@unaffiliated/isf] has left #lisp 02:05:09 -!- dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:11:57 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:12:01 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-130-18.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:04 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:11 hmm 02:15:34 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable110.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:15:59 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable110.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:19:07 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279632405.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:19:58 -!- akway [i=602aa812@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-de2689bfb16382f7] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 02:20:18 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:58 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:53 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:23:06 timchen1` [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 02:25:00 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@201.102.114.212] has joined #lisp 02:28:08 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:28:17 fusss__ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:19 -!- fusss__ is now known as fusss 02:28:34 -!- fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:28:36 i feel iffy about classes that have slots of sequence types; (defclass parent () ((children :initform nil))) vs (defclass parent () (id :initform (get-next-id)) (defclass child () ((parent-id))) 02:28:52 sql seems to have caused me some brain deadery after i went back to it only recently 02:29:12 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@201.102.114.212] has quit [Client Quit] 02:35:04 the table-like design is forcing me to write GET-NEXT-ID for each table; 10 different ones and counting! change of plans .. 02:36:13 -!- werdan7 [n=w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:38:37 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:41:08 eulerphi [i=4e2f1a05@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-edc4ad3aca878422] has joined #lisp 02:42:59 -!- X-Scale2 is now known as X-Scale 02:43:05 local generic functions: is that a really stupid idea? 02:43:13 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-156-160.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:43:55 yes: lexical scoping means there's no late binding, which is the very point of GFs. 02:45:10 -!- dysinger [n=tim@32.177.62.104] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:46:45 hmm 02:47:46 i don't know whether i just had a mini-epiphany or just barfed in my mouth a little. here is what i was trying to do, but i already figured it out: 02:48:43 if you want the 'pattern-matching' ability of a generic function, locally, then use ETYPECASE 02:48:51 -!- keithr [n=keithr@ip68-13-249-183.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:49:17 when i break down work between methods, i usually call-next-method and pass the half-finished work to the methods up the class heirarchy; from child classes to parents .. 02:50:34 what the einstein in me was trying to do was have various methods share a common, root boiler plate code. i.e. the parent methods actually fill some of the slots, and i couldn't imagine how to do that, CALL-PREVIOUS-METHOD is both prophetic and non-existent. 02:50:34 enter the genius: 02:51:43 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-2fbc13b0d5e1e9b4] has joined #lisp 02:51:52 let an "interface" function prepare the object first, then call the GF on that :-) 02:51:52 kpreid: i don't know yet how many cases there will be; there are only 5 or so types now, but others will be added by macros 02:51:52 brb 02:54:13 btw, all this ninjitsu is to avoid initializing the elements of a hash-table; some of my code calls (incf (gethash category-name user-table)) and the categories are both numerous and transient; just added an ADD-CATEGORY function that sets it to zero before incf is called. 02:57:20 -!- eulerphi is now known as eulerphi_ 02:57:54 -!- eulerphi_ is now known as eulerphi 02:58:11 sorry, was grouping my account :) 02:58:57 fusss: that's what gethash's optional argument is for. 02:59:37 no, no, no, please don't tell me I missed that! 03:00:37 -!- eulerphi is now known as eulerphi___ 03:00:46 -!- eulerphi___ is now known as eulerphi 03:01:14 CrazyEddy [n=mussines@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 03:02:50 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:03:03 -!- Prodego [n=Prodego@wikipedia/Prodego] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:03:37 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:04:19 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@201.102.114.212] has joined #lisp 03:04:30 keithr [n=keithr@ip68-13-249-183.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:02 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-79-200-142.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:08:32 rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:28 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:55 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-2fbc13b0d5e1e9b4] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:16:55 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:16:55 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:16:55 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-19-46.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:16:55 -!- hefner [n=hefner@scatterbrain.cbp.pitt.edu] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:16:55 -!- jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:16:55 -!- housel [n=nnhousel@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:17:39 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-2fbc13b0d5e1e9b4] has joined #lisp 03:17:39 Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 03:17:39 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:39 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-19-46.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:39 hefner [n=hefner@scatterbrain.cbp.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 03:17:39 housel [n=nnhousel@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 03:17:39 jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 03:21:27 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:27:34 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@201.102.114.212] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:29:30 saikat_ [n=saikat@67.180.9.222] has joined #lisp 03:29:59 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:30:10 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:31:00 dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:35 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:40:00 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:42:49 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c023h065.dorm.reed.edu] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 03:44:51 -!- Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving..."] 03:55:47 -!- cracki [n=cracki@134.130.183.101] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:56:35 hefner, would you be able to point me to some resources for tricks in laying out a lisp listener window like we were talking about yesterday (or very early this morning)? 03:57:01 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 03:58:22 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 03:58:37 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 04:00:39 whf [n=whf@119.130.5.192] has joined #lisp 04:00:44 -!- kidd1 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:02:17 -!- whf is now known as needforspeed 04:02:22 test 04:02:40 -!- needforspeed [n=whf@119.130.5.192] has left #lisp 04:09:28 it's aweful quiet 04:09:50 kidd1 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:36 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:11:47 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:55 is everyone in milan? 04:18:47 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-177-79-163.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:16 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:23:30 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 04:24:40 -!- kidd1 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:24:56 no, but I'm just leaving for it 04:25:01 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@67.180.9.222] has quit [] 04:26:30 is it a european lisp conference going on? 04:29:15 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-71-184-170-197.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:31:16 kidd1 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:02 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-50-54.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:37:12 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:54 elurin` [n=user@85.96.234.129] has joined #lisp 04:43:04 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:45:24 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@AMontsouris-153-1-87-192.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:49:52 -!- rakista [n=rakista@71.59.128.255] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:51:13 rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:16 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:43 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c023h065.dorm.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 05:14:18 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c023h065.dorm.reed.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:18:58 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:19:06 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:19:37 UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:47 -!- fredbard [n=fredMobi@admin161-204.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:19:59 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 05:22:58 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-93-14.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:32 is sb-kernel::dynamic-usage blowing smoke up my ass or are clos objects *that* cheap 05:23:35 ? 05:23:57 fredbard [n=fredMobi@64.254.161.204] has joined #lisp 05:24:13 i have a very lavish app that uses classes left and right, and per-user, there are 5 classes instantiated, one of them is a monster with 20 slots 05:25:11 I did (sb-ext:gc) && (sb-kernel::dynamic-usage), took down the numbers, then ran the app in simulation mode with one million users. results were surprisingly excellentlicious! 05:25:22 100bytes PER user. this cannot be! 05:25:53 the size of your CLOS instances in words should be # of slots + small constant factor 05:26:23 something is amiss here, so let's fire up the Windows taskbar and take before and after shots. restarted a fresh sbcl, and I kid you not, 87 bytes PER user! 05:27:15 hefner: i wrote some C++ classes that used 87 bytes as a napkin to feed the virtual pointer tables the rest of my memory. 05:27:39 this is good. 05:27:54 using multiple inheritance in C++? 05:27:58 one million objects were instantiated in 2 seconds, btw. NICE, really nice. 05:28:45 when I used C++ I used a component generator, you insensitive clod. But yes, ATL with multiple inheritance. 05:29:04 C++ compilers are very brave. 05:29:49 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-141-140.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:29:57 hello 05:31:04 hey tomoyuki28jp! 05:31:12 fusss: hey! :) 05:31:14 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-46-58.lns2.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:31:59 Is anyone here uses any documentation tool except Edi's documentation-template? 05:32:02 I did some quick calculations, and based on the numbers I'm getting, my web app could handle the entire Indian elections in 2 days flat: assuming half the population vote, and 500 of them voted per second :-) 05:32:20 Tinaa 05:32:36 fusss: Is that good? 05:32:55 -!- elurin` [n=user@85.96.234.129] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:33:13 tomoyuki28jp: http://common-lisp.net/project/tinaa/ I used it for a whole day before deciding nobody would ever use my crap. 05:33:34 however, i have some packages that depend on it, don't remember which ones 05:34:16 tomoyuki28jp: it's by Gary King, so yes, it's good. 05:34:18 I took a look at this page 'http://www.cliki.net/Documentation%20Tool', but there are many. So I wonder which one is good. I just found out documentation-template is useless. 05:34:31 fusss: I will take a look at it. thanks! 05:34:51 btw, Edi's format is my favorite, if you're documenting for a fellow programmer go with it. 05:35:45 *hefner* wonders how folks feel about writing documentation in texinfo 05:36:07 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 05:36:32 parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:45 there is some documentation that pisses me off everytime i need to use it, don't remember which package was is, but it's burgundy red on white with all the *symbols* in alphabetical order. That's right, functions, GFs, classes, types, conditions, special vars, everything in permuted-index format! 05:36:53 fusss: I think documentation-template doesn't format a code inside a documentation string. 05:37:27 fusss: quote 'it most likely doesn't do what you expect' http://www.weitz.de/documentation-template/ 05:37:52 tomoyuki28jp: look at Xach's code; Salza2 has code, prose and graphics in the same paragraph; doesn't get any better. 05:38:44 *fusss* has the same option over-load problem with unit test frameworks, but he sticks to sb-rt, theoretically, as he doesn't write test cases. 05:39:22 fusss: oh yes, I will take a look at his code. thanks a lot! 05:39:35 cheers! 05:39:43 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:59 Ogedei [n=user@ip54508552.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #lisp 05:41:33 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:41:41 fusss: It seems like Xach edits the html generated by documentation-template. 05:41:47 -!- eulerphi [i=4e2f1a05@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-edc4ad3aca878422] has quit [Client Quit] 05:41:50 oh 05:42:39 tomoyuki28jp: please don't use something that depends on a shell-script to extract docstrings. it's hell for us win32 users. 05:43:45 Kevin Rosenberg has one too, which I found fairly easy when I tried it once as well 05:46:05 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 05:47:56 if Tinaa's documentation was generated with itself, well, maybe you should look elsewhere: http://common-lisp.net/project/tinaa/documentation/tinaa-asdf-system/index.html 05:48:44 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:06 i have a asdf system for the (website) project i'm currently working on (that uses hunchentoot and cl-who). all functions using cl-who are concentrated in 2 files. when i do a "(require :system-name)" the functions in these files don't work properly. i get errors like ":title is undefined", etc. however, if i "C-c C-k" these files explicitly, the site works fine. 05:50:17 can someone please point out what i may be doing wrongly? 05:51:16 for the last 5 years I have refused to use FLTK2, and stayed with the earlier FTLK1 version *only* because of the documentation formatting! 05:52:08 spradnyesh: you're not listing cl-who as a dependency of your system 05:52:14 the order is important 05:53:06 what's in the :depends-on section of your site's defsystem? 05:53:08 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:53:09 fusss: i have cl-who listed in both system.asd and in packages.lisp 05:53:29 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 05:53:30 lemme paste it for you 05:53:55 spradnyesh pasted "asd, packages" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80890 05:54:38 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:19 looks OK 05:55:24 that's what 05:55:41 it works fine when i _explicitly_ compile views.lisp and models-accessors.lisp 05:55:44 but not otherwise 05:55:53 i get errors like "undefined :title" :( 05:55:54 what forms are breaking? maybe you're using cl-who syntax outside of WITH-HTML-OUTPUT* 05:56:10 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A100D.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:56:15 if that was the case, how come they work after compiling those files explicitly? 05:56:32 on the top of these files, do you have (in-package :fp-v2)? 05:56:50 you should religiously make tha the first form in all your project's files, until you know better 05:56:55 yup, i do 05:57:41 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:57:44 you know what I'm thinking? I'm thinking the defsystem form is being evaluated in another package other than CL-USER 05:57:44 i have it in all files (except fp-v2.asd and packages.lisp, obviously) 05:58:08 just to be sure, but this on top of your asd file (in-package #:cl-user) and try again 05:58:14 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 05:58:18 k, lemme try that 05:58:50 nopes, didn't work :( 05:59:04 is this sbcl? 05:59:07 yup 05:59:17 backtrace or it didn't happen ;-) 05:59:23 -!- jlf [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:59:27 What's the order DEFSYSTEM clauses are executed? 05:59:30 huh? 05:59:41 post the error you're getting, something is amiss 05:59:41 I've always seen :depends-on before :components 06:00:00 tcr: lemme try that way out 06:00:03 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:00:13 tcr: good point, even though my asds are in his order as well 06:01:09 tcr: putting the :depends-on before the :components, didn't help either 06:01:38 as for the errors:- the browser gives me a 500, while the error log says:- [2009-05-27 11:30:38 [ERROR]] The function :TITLE is undefined. 06:02:03 spradnyesh: Well make it pop up the debugger, and look at the backtrace 06:02:13 tcr: how do i do that? 06:02:35 he prolly shouldn't 06:02:39 -!- jmbr_ is now known as jmbr 06:02:54 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-159-204.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:55 sorry, i'm not too good with these things. have started with lisp just about 2 months ago, and hunchentoot just a few days back 06:03:25 spradnyesh: this is what the problem is; you have a (:title ..) line where it doesn't make sense. you probably have a WITH-HTML-OUT* macro closed off too soon. an extra right paren somewhere. 06:04:02 i don't think so. coz otherwise it shouldn't work after recompiling the file explicitly. but anyways, lemme check that out 06:04:06 Perhaps he's got some macro on top with-html-out, and uses in some file that does not have the file where it is defined in his .asd 06:04:08 try to auto-indent the code in the buffer, and see if some section of the code slides forward. 06:04:20 -!- Ogedei [n=user@ip54508552.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:04:27 ok that was gibberish 06:05:14 tcr: it made sense to me. even Edi uses a WITH-HTML macro which is a wrapper for the CL-WHO macros. And if WITH-HTML is defined in a file, that file should be a dependency for all others that use the macro. 06:05:34 Gertm` [n=user@94-224-174-232.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 06:05:55 Right that's what I meant to say 06:06:05 -!- cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-177-79-163.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:06:48 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-141-140.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:06:52 i guess you both are right here 06:06:56 yes 06:07:05 i tried removing the with-html macro, and things are working fine 06:07:07 none of the two files depend on the another file other than package 06:07:19 lemme try to dig further based on what you've said 06:08:01 you probably will need a utils.lisp file that all others depend on ;-) 06:08:07 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-25-4.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:55 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:09:09 fusss: i do have a utils.lisp file which has that macro, but the 2 files don't depend on it. lemme correct it. 06:09:54 thanks a lot! that really helped me understand some stuff. 06:10:17 \o/ 06:13:16 brb 06:14:30 that worked. yay! 06:21:12 -!- slyrus__ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:25:09 i have a list, say (defvar l '(1 2 3 4 5)). now i want to replace the element 4 with 7. but the way i want to do it is not (setf (fourth l) 7). rather the element is found through a test function which detects if the current member of the list is what i want. and now replace this element in the list with the new element 06:25:14 how do i do this? 06:26:17 i can get the (old) element by (remove-if-not #'test l), but doing a setf to this element does not (obviously, i think) change the original list 06:27:26 spradnyesh: First, special variables should be named like *this* 06:28:00 tcr: do you mean that the list (l) should be a special variable? 06:28:03 spradnyesh: Second, quoted lists are literal data, i.e. they must not be destructively modified. Use (list 1 2 3 4 5) instead 06:28:15 spradnyesh: variables you define with DEFVAR are special 06:28:37 spradnyesh: And what you want would be done by (setf *list* (delete-if #'foop *list*)) 06:29:24 that is if you want to remove all occurences of an element 06:29:31 tcr: the solution you gave me deletes the old element, not replace the old with the new 06:29:41 what i want is replace old by new 06:30:24 clhs substitute 06:30:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sbs_s.htm 06:30:26 would it make sense to delete and then append? but then lists are positional, aren't they? 06:30:29 Oh right. Do you want to replace all occurences or just one? 06:30:37 just one 06:30:44 i dind't know of substitute 06:30:46 lemme check that out 06:30:51 thanks pjb 06:31:07 spradnyesh: mind the :count argument. 06:31:09 oh handy substitute comes with a :count parameter 06:31:39 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 06:31:54 i _know_ that the list contains (exactly) one of what i'm looking for (kinda like the primary key). so i need not look at it. but thanks for pointing it out :) 06:32:37 spradnyesh: if you know there's only one, then :count 1 will allow substitute to shortcut processing the list. 06:32:59 cool 06:33:12 also, i guess what i'm looking at is substitute-if (since i have a test function to detect the old element in the list) 06:34:29 s/at/for/ 06:37:16 adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has joined #lisp 06:38:07 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-123-142.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:38:27 Modius [n=Modius@70.244.123.142] has joined #lisp 06:38:38 oconnore [n=oconnore@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:04 -!- Modius [n=Modius@70.244.123.142] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:47:35 mqt [n=tran@c-66-41-46-222.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:18 -!- ken` is now known as ken 06:49:08 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 06:50:31 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:50 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:53:31 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 06:54:46 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-46-58.lns2.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:54:56 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 06:55:48 mega1 [n=mega@3e44afbf.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:56:55 -!- _5pitphir3 [n=Spitfire@cpe-71-74-84-48.insight.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:58:10 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:42 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 07:02:38 Modius [n=Modius@99.179.97.235] has joined #lisp 07:03:38 Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.97.235] has joined #lisp 07:07:58 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:08:11 adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has joined #lisp 07:10:05 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["off"] 07:10:58 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 07:11:11 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 07:11:20 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.97.235] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:11:30 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:13:08 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 07:13:58 -!- rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-e230d03c693c8a2f] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:15:14 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 07:17:21 -!- Modius [n=Modius@99.179.97.235] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 07:20:02 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-193-226.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:44 -!- rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:21:41 stipet [n=user@83.253.25.49] has joined #lisp 07:23:30 xan [n=xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 07:27:12 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@112.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 07:28:53 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.194.45] has left #lisp 07:29:28 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:29:30 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 07:30:42 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:32:19 Ogedei [n=user@ip54508552.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #lisp 07:39:57 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:40:52 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:07 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-27-252.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:44:08 -!- stipet [n=user@83.253.25.49] has left #lisp 07:45:12 free_thinker [n=willijar@eas-nw709pc01.aston.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 07:47:17 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.172] has joined #lisp 07:48:27 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 07:50:31 spradnyesh: what is the user-base for your web site? 07:50:38 are you expecting huge traffic? 07:52:11 -!- Ogedei [n=user@ip54508552.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:54:24 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:56:00 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.172] has quit ["Log this!"] 07:57:35 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has joined #lisp 07:58:03 ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has joined #lisp 07:58:13 jdz_ [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:59:01 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.75.207] has joined #lisp 07:59:58 -!- legumbre [n=user@190.135.25.114] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:05:47 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:06:29 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:07:22 ASau [n=user@host210-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 08:08:54 fusss: sorry, wasn't at my desk. had gone for lunch 08:09:16 foo1 [n=prabu@221.134.21.34] has joined #lisp 08:09:21 and no. i'm currently on shared hosting (with django). and don't really expect a huge traffic right now 08:09:51 but slowly, i intend to grow and will then (probably, and _hopefully_) go on to my own hosting :) 08:11:14 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.75.207] has quit ["Log this!"] 08:12:44 how on earth can you run lisp on a shared host? 08:13:04 you're on sbcl, right? 08:13:16 fusss: i don't know (yet) 08:13:25 i thought it was possible using cgi, no? 08:14:06 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-78-239.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:14:47 as an aside, i'm also looking out for a lisp job. but i'm still just starting to learn stuff. looking out for someone who might take me as a fresher 08:14:58 good morning 08:15:03 can you suggest, where might i look (internationally)? 08:15:04 hey mvilleneuve 08:15:21 spradnyesh: where are you located now? 08:15:23 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:15:28 bangalore, india 08:15:46 achaa? 08:15:54 working for the biggest web portal. but that work is in php, and i'm not really happy with it 08:16:01 do you have experience in advertising? ad networks? 08:23:06 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 08:23:14 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 08:24:32 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:26:19 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 08:27:11 benny [n=benny@i577A1A4F.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:33:09 spradnyesh: http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/lisp-companies/ there's three Indian Lisp companies listed. 08:33:59 matimago: thanks for that. i'll take a look 08:34:41 matimago: that's just the tip of the ice-berg. i know of at least another 10 hunchentoot shops never heard of anywhere 08:35:00 they all come out of the woodwork once you get both active/vocal as a business person AND as a lisper. 08:35:16 i found them all on Hacker News, because I'm the resident yobo there ;-) 08:35:38 -!- ykphuah [i=dd85268a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4aca3141c30e1c85] has left #lisp 08:36:05 fusss: let's pray for the ice melt! Let's see the hidden parts of these ice-bergs :-) 08:36:57 i always thought i knew all the lispers on earth. how wrong was I. 08:37:00 Yet again, the only person to speak to me was a spam bot. :( 08:37:32 bob_f: hey, don't discriminate! :) 08:37:40 bots are irc clients too. 08:37:48 I am starting a middle-eastern advertising network. doesn't get any more unique does it? I found a turkish lisper who wrote code for an ad network (bah!) :-D 08:38:12 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 08:38:30 semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 08:41:39 koollman: They're just not very interesting, unfortunately. :( 08:43:43 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.126] has joined #lisp 08:47:57 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:49:49 hugod_ [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440412.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:54:49 -!- semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has quit ["leaving"] 08:55:49 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:57:44 semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 08:57:51 thomas`` [n=thomas@41-040.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:58:01 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 08:58:39 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279632405.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:02:19 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 09:03:26 -!- thomas`` [n=thomas@41-040.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has left #lisp 09:04:56 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-193-226.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:39 Joreji [n=user@41-040.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:07:57 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-193-226.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:34 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-193-226.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:11:13 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-192-99.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:44 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:15:53 plage [n=user@83.224.64.17] has joined #lisp 09:15:59 g'day 09:16:11 -!- Joreji [n=user@41-040.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["Reset"] 09:16:36 hello plage 09:17:17 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-193-226.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:17:19 joreji [n=user@41-040.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:17:21 Some people staying here at the Novotel think it would be a good idea to get together with others staying here. If you like this idea, please contact any of fe[nl]x or some others like attila_lendvai. 09:17:25 hey mvilleneuve 09:18:07 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-216-7.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:10 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 09:22:51 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:24:55 -!- Gertm` [n=user@94-224-174-232.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:25:33 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-193-226.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Success] 09:26:20 sphex [n=nobody@74.56.138.185] has joined #lisp 09:27:05 Gertm [n=user@94-224-174-232.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 09:29:54 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-157-253.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:31:06 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-216-7.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:31:27 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-216-7.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:45 rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:05 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 09:35:39 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:38:55 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:39:01 -!- smithzv [n=smithzv@c-67-173-240-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:41:14 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44afbf.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:41:37 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:41:38 spradnyesh: Cleartrip in India used CL..active development has stopped 09:41:55 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 09:42:05 adityo: that's bad. i was thinking of trying to apply there 09:42:49 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:43:30 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:44:25 -!- joreji [n=user@41-040.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:45:05 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-216-7.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:46:01 spradnyesh: only lisp maintenance work there now 09:47:04 adityo: have you worked there? 09:47:25 spradnyesh: yes 09:48:30 writing blogsoftware for SBCL and PostgreSQL is proving thornish 09:48:39 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [] 09:48:56 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-50.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:49:42 Joreji [n=user@41-040.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:50:13 -!- Joreji [n=user@41-040.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has left #lisp 09:50:18 Though antifuchs path which allowed debugging in the Lisp debugger helps a lot 09:50:34 patch 09:51:35 thanks again, you are a life saver. 09:56:55 mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0fced90684cb5ccd] has joined #lisp 09:57:32 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-181-141-65.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:53 how to filter items from list based on certain conditon? 09:59:18 foo1: apply or map i think 09:59:19 clhs remove 09:59:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm 09:59:24 cannot remebmer it at the moment 09:59:51 stassats: thanks 10:02:05 -!- prip_ [n=_prip@host13-135-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 10:02:10 prip [n=_prip@host13-135-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:06:50 -!- mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0fced90684cb5ccd] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 10:07:22 younder: what is thornish about it? 10:07:37 i have a blog thing that uses sqlite3 as a backend if you want to look at it 10:08:05 though, i must admit, i dropped 0.15.7 like a hot potato now that 1.0.0 is here in all its goodness 10:09:01 the new hunchentoot rolls off the tongue so much i can probably type the code for blog engine right here into IRC 10:10:40 brandelune [n=suzume@pl710.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:13:28 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:13:47 younder: look at slyrus' blog engine, cl-nuclblog 10:14:01 hunchentoot's own examples are abundant and clear 10:14:12 off to bed now, cheers! 10:14:19 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-93-14.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 10:15:02 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-159-204.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:21:40 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 10:29:01 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 10:29:51 mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 10:30:17 -!- mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has left #lisp 10:32:44 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 10:35:16 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:37:19 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:02 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl710.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 10:40:33 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has joined #lisp 10:42:17 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:56 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:50:19 Ogedei [n=user@ip54508552.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #lisp 10:52:33 jophish [n=jophish@80-47-44-71.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 10:54:05 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@134.184.43.85] has joined #lisp 10:55:35 mega1 [n=mega@pool-02836.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:55:55 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1C56A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:28 Though antifuchs path which allowed debugging in the Lisp debugger helps a lot' 10:56:44 patch 10:57:57 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1E4AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:59:59 -!- antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has left #lisp 11:00:03 antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:17 oops, I seem to have said exactly the same before. (whatever it is worth repeating) 11:00:29 sorry 11:01:03 -!- jophish [n=jophish@80-47-44-71.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:02:43 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-192-99.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:02:47 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@134.184.43.85] has quit [] 11:04:53 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:10:24 -!- Ogedei [n=user@ip54508552.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:13:25 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:13:36 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:21:47 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483BF98.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:13 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 11:31:00 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 11:31:12 frobar [n=ulf@h-85-24-219-170.NA.cust.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 11:32:20 i need a stack-like structure with an uniqueness property so that an element is only added if it's not already in the stack. any recommendations? 11:32:55 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 11:35:03 use a list and #'pushnew (look at the :test keyword parameter) 11:35:45 Hun [n=Hun@217.86.190.93] has joined #lisp 11:36:34 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-2fbc13b0d5e1e9b4] has left #lisp 11:38:21 i might need something faster than a linear search though.. 11:41:17 do you know how big the stack can grow ? 11:42:10 yeah, there's a fixed upper limit, and the values are from a fixed set as well. maybe i could do something ad-hoc with a hash table that records what elements appear in the stack.. 11:43:13 What is it a stack of? 11:44:39 i'm making a nonogram solver that works by extracting as much info as it can from individual lines. the stack keeps track of what lines/columns have had something happen in them, so that the linesolver might be able to derive additional information. 11:44:52 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-157-253.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:45:09 Why not use a matrix with an inverse operation stack? 11:45:21 what's an inverse operation stack? 11:46:00 i'm already representing the board with a matrix 11:46:04 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:46:51 (as a two-dimensional vector) 11:48:22 Well, a stack of the move-required-to-return-to-the-previous-state 11:50:51 the algorithm never backtracks. it's just for keeping track of stuff that needs to be done (lines that the linesolver needs to look at, as they have changed while solving perpendicular lines). i guess i could use some general kind of set as well. the ordering is not important. 11:54:17 Davidbrcz [n=david@193.52.24.125] has joined #lisp 11:54:41 i just need operations to add an element, fetch an element (whatever element), and to see whether the set is empty 11:57:51 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 12:00:26 is there a grid/table control in CLIM? 12:03:15 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 12:05:11 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 12:06:55 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:08:35 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 12:09:51 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:10:03 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EE30.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:48 -!- tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:12:52 HET3 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:13:17 foo1: you mean, as a gadget? 12:13:27 yes 12:13:44 foo1: or would formatting-table / formatting-item-list suffice 12:13:45 ah 12:13:56 probably not, no 12:13:59 hi anti 12:14:04 antifuchs even 12:14:10 hi HET3 (: 12:14:16 -!- HET3 is now known as HET2 12:14:46 is it similar to java swing table control? 12:15:14 all that does is layout things in a tabular fashion 12:15:20 no sorting/marking of cells/etc 12:15:45 depending on the backend, it should be doable to make a tabular gadget 12:15:56 I suppose it wouldn't be extremely hard in the gtk backend for mcclim 12:16:12 how to change the backend? 12:16:19 that depends on the backend ((: 12:16:30 gtk 12:16:44 I think for the gtk one, you just load the mcclim-gtkairo system (or whatever it's called) 12:16:51 it is experimental, though 12:18:39 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:18:40 alinp1 [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 12:20:29 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@134.184.43.85] has joined #lisp 12:24:21 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-149-27.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:24 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:25:30 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:29:01 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 12:30:53 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:33:15 novaburst [i=nova@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has joined #lisp 12:37:20 antifuchs, btw, you seen clutter-project.org already? 12:37:27 no, not yet! 12:37:44 oh, sweet 12:37:48 The rage behind maemo 5 and moblin 2. 12:38:00 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:29 OpenGL/ES backed, so guaranteed fast and sweet. 12:39:48 json layout files, webkit rendering. all the right buzzwords : 12:39:49 (: 12:40:07 Intel bought openedhand which did development, and then hurled it into moblin. 12:40:08 deepfire: looks sweet, thanks! 12:40:19 Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:41:56 Ogedei [n=user@ip54508552.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #lisp 12:44:01 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:45:31 -!- Ogedei [n=user@ip54508552.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has left #lisp 12:58:46 dlowe 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antoni [n=user@72.pool85-53-20.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 13:15:29 -!- hugod_ [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440412.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 13:15:52 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:17:09 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:20:53 -!- novaburst [i=nova@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has quit ["leaving"] 13:21:49 jophish [n=jophish@80-47-44-71.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 13:23:56 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 13:23:59 -!- adityo [n=adityo@122.169.27.241] has quit ["leaving"] 13:24:14 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:24:22 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:24:27 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:24:27 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:25:40 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:26:57 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:27:47 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@131.173.18.85] has joined #lisp 13:29:04 jmbr [n=jmbr@203.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:30:54 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:30:58 http://www.wisdomandwonder.com/link/3022/why-church-chose-lambda 13:32:24 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:32:45 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:34:04 CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.121.42] has joined #lisp 13:35:15 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 13:35:28 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:51 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:08 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 13:36:14 hello 13:37:16 ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has joined #lisp 13:37:25 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:37:34 carbocalm [n=user@64.40.185.82] has joined #lisp 13:37:56 tcoppi_ [n=nuclear@57c3ed63-1294-45bd-a8e8-cdcc07cfa16f.static.grokthis.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:19 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-17-205-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:05 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:39:46 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-16-112.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:41:53 -!- tcoppi [n=nuclear@57c3ed63-1294-45bd-a8e8-cdcc07cfa16f.static.grokthis.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:43:18 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-131-110.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:44:24 -!- foo1 [n=prabu@221.134.21.34] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:45:06 -!- tcoppi_ [n=nuclear@57c3ed63-1294-45bd-a8e8-cdcc07cfa16f.static.grokthis.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:45:36 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:45:50 tcoppi [n=nuclear@57c3ed63-1294-45bd-a8e8-cdcc07cfa16f.static.grokthis.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:07 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:46:21 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-75-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:46:24 rdd [n=user@83.250.157.93] has joined #lisp 13:47:15 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 13:47:19 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:50:10 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@134.184.43.85] has quit [] 13:51:08 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 13:52:22 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:53:11 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-131-110.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:54:19 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-131-110.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:54:51 hello kami- 13:57:51 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-9-94.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:55 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 13:59:29 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:59:40 -!- antoni [n=user@72.pool85-53-20.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:59:55 jdz_ [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has joined #lisp 14:00:04 -!- jdz_ [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has quit [Client Quit] 14:03:23 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:03:44 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:41 minion: memo for drewc: I saw ucw was supposed to create a linear control flow, but it still seems to be (optionally) component based. I wish to develop an event driven, component based web application. Is the linear control flow really suitable for that? 14:07:41 Remembered. I'll tell drewc when he/she/it next speaks. 14:09:01 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl710.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 14:09:05 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 14:13:30 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:36 G'morning all. 14:14:08 jdz_ [n=jdz@87.110.12.247] has joined #lisp 14:14:33 dat [n=dthomp@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:14 HET3 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 14:15:42 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:19:30 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:22:29 milanj [n=milan@93.87.151.247] has joined #lisp 14:22:38 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.207.172] has joined #lisp 14:22:52 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 14:22:56 kpreid: interesting. Thanks! (note that on my Firefox, the combining hats appears on the right of the letters) 14:23:22 hello 14:25:16 I guess we can happy that his scribbling didn't look like a UPSILON-WITH-DIALYTIKA-AND-TONOS ... 14:25:30 -!- projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has left #lisp 14:29:52 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:31:58 danlei [n=user@pD954FB6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:53 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 14:33:13 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:38:43 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.2.103] has joined #lisp 14:38:51 ericklc [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:39:11 -!- ericklc is now known as ikki 14:40:24 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-154-169.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:41:21 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 14:41:38 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-30-249.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:11 buggarage [n=user@xdsl-87-78-75-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:43:56 milanj- [n=milan@93.87.194.112] has joined #lisp 14:44:08 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EE30.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:44:57 -!- alinp1 [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:45:31 -!- konr1 is now known as konr 14:52:53 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 14:53:04 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-9-94.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:55:31 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has left #lisp 14:55:41 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-226.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:00 parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:25 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-226.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:56:59 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 14:57:10 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-117-69.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:24 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.2.103] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:59:52 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.151.247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:02:13 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit ["Be back later"] 15:07:28 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.121.42] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:08:46 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@131.173.18.85] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:09:03 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-75-148.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 15:12:22 bzwahr [n=user@bloc-bzwahr-lap.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:14:07 cgay [n=cgay@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:13 X-Scale [i=email@89.180.49.17] has joined #lisp 15:16:16 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:16:47 -!- HET3 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:16:57 cpape [n=user@host16084.pik-potsdam.de] has joined #lisp 15:19:48 puh, i'm confused now 15:20:07 if i have hunchentoot application in package :TEST for example, should *package* evaluate to :TEST then when i call the page (it's evaluating to COMMON-LISP-USER) ? 15:22:00 dysinger [n=tim@32.177.27.27] has joined #lisp 15:22:49 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:37 -!- rakista [n=rakista@c-71-59-128-255.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Rakista has left the planet"] 15:28:03 milanj-: no, *package* is a dynamic variable 15:28:35 hmm yes 15:29:01 GrayShade [n=GrayShad@79.117.186.37] has joined #lisp 15:29:02 but when you start application from :TEST package 15:29:05 more to the point, *package* is relevant when *reading* code. when it's running, *package* can be whatever 15:29:18 also, :TEST is not a package, it is a keyword. the value of *package* is always a package 15:29:20 unless you're playing games with INTERN. 15:29:32 (the package might be *named* "TEST") 15:29:37 yes, i know it's a keywork nevermind that 15:29:41 milanj-: hunchentoot starts new thread for each request 15:30:06 pkhuong: even then, (intern name package) usually works out to be clearer than binding *package*... 15:30:49 well, you may bind *package* when you read something 15:31:36 hmm, stassats, and for example it works in only on thread 15:31:40 the same one you start application 15:31:55 *package* should evaluate to :TEST then ? 15:32:19 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:32:25 *package* evaluates to what it's bound 15:32:27 spawning threads does not inherite dynamic variables ? 15:32:59 milanj-: implementation dependent. 15:33:12 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:33:16 yes, hmm, now i remeber that part of sbcl manual 15:33:27 anyway, why would you want to access *package*? 15:33:28 -!- younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:33:51 younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 15:34:09 -!- cgay [n=cgay@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 15:35:01 -!- bzwahr [n=user@bloc-bzwahr-lap.tamu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:35:15 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:22 intern string for class slot access 15:36:09 There's a very good chance that you don't actually want to do that. 15:36:17 yes, sure 15:36:22 It is usually a much better idea to have the relevant symbols/functions already around. 15:36:34 Where is the string you are interning originating from? 15:36:37 but i just stumble on this, so wanted to make that clear before forget it 15:36:43 from html forms 15:36:52 well, that's a pretty bad idea 15:37:09 someone could pass in a symbol that means something you really don't want to just blindly access 15:37:59 it's drop down box or how they call that 15:38:13 that doesn't restrict what the client can send 15:38:44 yes, probably, i'm html noob 15:38:47 a html form is just a suggestion to the browser. there's nothing that's enforcing that it sends you requests describable in the form 15:39:04 unless hunchentoot is doing validation for you. 15:39:09 and if i just access to some object with that symbol ? 15:39:40 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-117-69.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:40:38 Modius [n=Modius@99.179.103.81] has joined #lisp 15:41:06 -!- peddie [n=matthew@PEDDIE.MIT.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:41:24 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:43:25 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:54 Is there something like SLIME's automagic arglist display for C-mode? 15:45:46 google gave me this: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/c-eldoc.el 15:47:36 that... is fairly ugly. 15:48:59 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [] 15:49:30 pkhuong: for beauty, use Lisp, not C. 15:50:17 C is beautiful 15:50:44 -!- jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:51:01 Marshalling data is boilerplate 15:51:06 jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 15:51:18 http://history.hanover.edu/texts/voltaire/volbeaut.html 15:51:21 boaring and ugly 15:52:06 matimago: the elisp is ugly (: 15:52:31 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.207.172] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:52:48 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:53:30 elisp is beautiful too 15:53:35 how's ECLS going? 15:53:52 The source ofthe sucess ofe of emacs 15:54:16 no elisp no SLIME 15:54:20 i mean ELS... 15:55:42 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 15:56:45 Poor John Fremlin.. linux.org.ru customaries apparently took a pride in attempting to bring it down with a huge amount of stupid comments to his blog entries.. 15:56:48 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 15:57:00 Well, the ill-motivated subset of them. 15:57:15 pkhuong: some elisp functions in emacs are not nice, yes. There are a lot of non-programmers contributing code to emacs... 15:57:28 nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:45 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-43-128.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:57:57 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:58:02 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:58:02 -!- Hun [n=Hun@217.86.190.93] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:58:18 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:03 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 16:00:13 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 16:00:50 tombom [i=tombom@86.9.234.19] has joined #lisp 16:03:28 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:04:48 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:05:34 -!- dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has quit ["leaving"] 16:06:40 -!- Gertm [n=user@94-224-174-232.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:07:13 dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has joined #lisp 16:07:24 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 16:09:43 brown [n=user@72.14.228.89] has joined #lisp 16:10:11 -!- brown is now known as Guest30359 16:12:33 milan [n=milan@93.87.142.131] has joined #lisp 16:12:58 cadabra [n=cadabra@67.218.106.193] has joined #lisp 16:17:00 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:18:07 -!- ASau [n=user@host210-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off!"] 16:20:06 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:22:28 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-78-239.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:23:49 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 16:24:51 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 16:25:18 kenjin_ [n=kenjin@211.33.117.144] has joined #lisp 16:26:01 -!- ken [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:27:41 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.87.194.112] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:20 milanj- [n=milan@91.150.119.216] has joined #lisp 16:28:39 hi, if I'm not in a package, and I define a function and then go (in-package :foo), how can I use that function I defined earlier? 16:28:55 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:29:11 egn: You're always in a package. 16:29:25 egn: perhaps you were in cl-user? 16:30:02 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:12 -!- carbocalm [n=user@64.40.185.82] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:30:28 sellout: thanks, I was 16:30:47 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:27 -!- dat [n=dthomp@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:34:45 milanj [n=milan@212.200.192.138] has joined #lisp 16:38:27 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:40:46 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:41:10 cirquitz [n=cirquitz@203.199.114.33] has joined #lisp 16:41:26 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:43:06 how would I measure the time between the invokation of a certain function and its end in lisp? 16:43:38 -!- milan [n=milan@93.87.142.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:43:53 clhs time 16:43:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_time.htm 16:43:54 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:43:54 clhs time 16:43:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_time.htm 16:44:00 -!- cirquitz [n=cirquitz@203.199.114.33] has quit [Client Quit] 16:45:28 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47:14 Gertm [n=user@84.197.59.88] has joined #lisp 16:47:51 gzip4 [n=xxx@ws102.zone134.zaural.ru] has joined #lisp 16:47:58 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:38 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:48:53 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-130-18.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:49:26 -!- Gertm [n=user@84.197.59.88] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:49:36 -!- milanj- [n=milan@91.150.119.216] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:49:44 dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 16:50:26 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:52:35 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslfx241.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:54:47 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:55:17 willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:56:00 Oh, right. ELS. No wonder it's so quiet in here today. 16:57:37 Oh yeah :( 17:01:28 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 17:01:31 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EE30.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:11 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:22 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:07:00 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:07:20 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-150-57-116.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:35 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:07:59 nyef: only those not fortunate enough to be there, are here... :( 17:07:59 -!- Modius [n=Modius@99.179.103.81] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:08:27 heh 17:08:30 So much for live coverage, huh? 17:08:33 Hi, Is there any nice scientific plotting package or something? 17:08:50 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-69-150-57-116.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:28 kenjin_: I don't know about anything in CL, but generating gnuplot commands is quite sensible method 17:10:35 gnuplot...I think I've heard of it somewhere, thank you p_l. 17:10:49 np 17:12:22 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 17:14:08 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:16:35 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 17:16:57 -!- kenjin_ [n=kenjin@211.33.117.144] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:17:09 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:20:34 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:20:57 kenjin is gone, but cl-2d might be a viable alternative for 2d things 17:21:08 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 17:21:22 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 17:21:51 -!- mega1 [n=mega@pool-02836.externet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:22:01 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:22:33 HG` [n=wells@xdslek203.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:22:34 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:00 memet [n=memet@204-225-123-132.xdsl.convoke.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:17 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:24:03 Hello all. Anyone familiar with the "Thread not found: :REPL-THREAD" error when trying to slime-connect to a remote swank server (SBCL) 17:24:32 Perhaps you have a mono-threaded sbcl? 17:24:43 you have swank/slime version mismatch? 17:25:02 no, swank slime has been updated to match (it was mismatching before, is no longer mismatching) 17:25:19 btw: SBCL is running on Debian (got sbcl via apt-get) 17:25:29 client is AquaMacs (on Leopard) 17:25:38 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@67.218.106.193] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:25:45 how would I tell if my SBCL is single threaded? 17:25:54 kanzure [n=bryan@cpe-66-68-183-235.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:03 how do I search for the meaning of #' ? 17:26:03 memet: your SBCL is going to be ancient if you use the Debian version. I highly recommend upgrading from the sbcl site. 17:26:14 kanzure: it expands to (FUNCTION ...) 17:26:15 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:16 alrighty. 17:26:27 cirquitz [n=cirquitz@59.164.40.241] has joined #lisp 17:26:33 dlowe: I have a lambda expression in a list (named "blah"), can I do #'blah ? 17:26:34 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-150-57-116.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:26:36 memet: check for :SB-THREAD in *FEATURES* 17:27:00 kanzure: No, not if I understand you correctly 17:27:06 hm. 17:27:06 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 17:27:06 kanzure: why would you want to? 17:27:20 (its absence indicates single-threadedness) 17:27:22 jif: SB-THREAD is present. 17:27:27 dlowe: super old professor code is for some reason giving me a lambda expression in a list, and is trying to APPLY with it 17:27:41 dlowe: but (LAMBDA ..) is not a lambda expression apparently 17:27:45 kanzure: you mean like (apply #'(lambda (x) (1+ x)) 5)? 17:27:48 taking the car of that list doesn't work either (wtf) 17:27:51 sadly, no 17:27:59 I guess that rules out the single thread hypothesis, I will still upgrade the sbcl to check. Any other ideas? 17:28:03 it's more like: (apply (cadr coeffs) (mapcar 'car terms)) where 'terms' contains the lambda expression 17:28:23 maybe I have that backwards 17:28:27 but anyway 17:28:44 kanzure: you can APPLY or FUNCALL a function without using #' 17:29:04 but, uh, not a list of functions 17:29:15 well it's not supposed to be a list 17:29:23 but for some reason taking the car of it doesn't return the lambda expression 17:29:27 I'm probably doing something wrong :) 17:29:44 (cadr coeffs) is the list with the lambda expression 17:29:50 so cadar should be what I want, right? 17:29:57 (cadr coeffs) refers to the second element in coeffs 17:30:00 -!- dalton is now known as Dennis_Ritchie 17:30:14 you can compile it or eval it 17:30:15 Wait, you have a lambda expression, and you want to do something with it? 17:30:18 but (cadar coeffs) returns NIL 17:30:29 kanzure: what does coeffs return? 17:30:41 Yeah, go with (COMPILE NIL ), which returns a function object that can be called. 17:30:46 *dlowe* usually prefers SECOND to CADR 17:30:55 ((1) (LAMBDA (A) (COND (A (LIST '/ A 'TEETH_GOAL))))) 17:31:04 I see. 17:31:23 dlowe: you aren't old-school enough 17:31:39 (apply (compile NIL (second coeffs)) (mapcar 'first terms)) 17:31:40 nyef: ok, I'll try that 17:31:50 -!- Dennis_Ritchie is now known as dalton 17:31:50 'first ? 17:31:55 oh, first =~ car 17:31:58 kanzure: right 17:32:31 (Next thing we know, we'll be seeing code with "E as a lambda-list keyword.) 17:33:25 when I (print (mapcar 'first terms)), I get NIL. is that normal? 17:33:26 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:33:51 kanzure: it means terms is NIL 17:33:58 that sounds unlikely. 17:34:06 *kanzure* takes a closer look 17:39:17 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:04 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@251.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:40:59 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:41:20 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@203.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:43:40 galdor_ [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:30 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 17:45:51 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.192.138] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:45:55 SBCL v 1.0.28 running on debian. Is swank server. AquaMacs running on OSX, is the slime interpreter. 17:46:25 M-x slime-connect from client to server yields: "Thread not found: :REPL-THREAD" 17:46:32 any ideas? 17:48:05 is there a way that I Can check that the swank server is properly running from the command line? IE. is there a way to connect to the swank server from the debian box (headless server) 17:49:00 memet: might be worthwhile removing stale .elc's and .fasl's to force recompilation in case slime/swank are somehow incoherent 17:49:17 I've done that actually. 17:49:41 well, I've done it on the server side since there is nothing going on on the client side. 17:49:50 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-69-150-57-116.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:50:00 but yeah, I've rebuilt SBCL from scratch on debian and recompiled swank too 17:50:03 what's the value of swank:*communication-style* ? 17:50:05 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-82-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:50:11 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-69-150-57-116.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:19 :spwan 17:50:21 :spawn 17:50:37 fyi, this is the script I use to launch the server 17:50:37 (require 'asdf) 17:50:38 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :swank) 17:50:38 (setf swank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* nil) 17:50:38 (swank:create-server :coding-system "utf-8-unix" :dont-close t) 17:50:59 cmd line: sbcl --load swank.lisp 17:51:07 how can I put a literal \t in the CHAR-BAG parameter of STRING-TRIM? 17:51:28 #\Tab 17:51:32 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:35 rjack: '(#\Tab ...) 17:51:44 as in the clhs examples 17:51:50 thanks 17:56:10 catnap [n=tommi@nec0.kyla.fi] has joined #lisp 17:56:12 Anyways, I see this: http://bc.tech.coop/blog/050608.html might be in the direction towards a solution 17:56:14 thanks all. by 17:56:16 -!- memet [n=memet@204-225-123-132.xdsl.convoke.net] has quit [] 17:56:42 is there a limit for database size in common lisp? 17:56:50 the implementation that I'm using is sbcl 17:57:03 -!- cirquitz [n=cirquitz@59.164.40.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:57:06 sbcl doesn't have a database 17:57:07 catnap: what do you mean by "database"? 17:57:31 kpreid: I mean a datastructure, like hash table for example, that is stored in hard disk 17:57:47 catnap: well, it depends on the library you're using to store it on disk 17:57:52 the database should have 10^8 entries 17:57:55 jewel [n=jewel@41.145.64.64] has joined #lisp 17:58:29 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:58:33 (<= (expt 10 8) most-positive-fixnum) => T 17:58:45 A couple GB's worth of data. No problem here. I've used heaps of > 8 GB with sbcl (linux/x86-64). 17:58:50 that should not reach any hard limits 17:59:22 benny99 [n=benny@p5486AE83.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:41 catnap: depends how you want to access it... 17:59:42 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:00:48 catnap: if loading it whole into memory is alright, then the limit is your VM size 18:01:28 p_l: that shouldn't be necessary - the database can be on hard drive 18:02:08 catnap: what kind of data is it? how should it be indexed? what will the access pattern be? 18:02:23 catnap: there's nothing special in lisp for (or against) databases. 18:02:28 catnap: then normal file access methods apply, you just need to write all the management code (like in every other langauge) 18:03:40 catnap: you can also use some database engine (not necessarily RDBMS) to do the management for you 18:04:01 p_l: in that last option seems reasonable 18:04:11 but is that option fast enough? 18:04:22 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-ee0413152133b0ce] has joined #lisp 18:04:33 catnap: hard to tell ahead of time. 18:04:35 catnap: database engine? It can be faster than what you will code yourself :P 18:05:01 catnap: what kind of data and how do you want to access it? 18:05:49 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslfx241.osnanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:07:12 I need to store a big array of integers 18:07:15 if it's fixed-size entries indexed by numerical id (like a C array), TC can probably max out your machine's I/O ::P 18:08:20 what is TC? 18:08:22 catnap: is it fixed-size array? one or more dimensions? 18:08:33 cdb is also pretty neat if your usage corresponds to its functionality. is supposed to be compatible with djb's implementation, but hasn't really been tested. 18:08:43 array is fixed size and it only has one dimension 18:08:44 catnap: TokyoCabinet. a database engine similar BDB 18:09:16 catnap: you can then even do it through CFFI if you really wanted... mmap a big file, write few functions to access memory... 18:10:00 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has joined #lisp 18:12:01 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-69-150-57-116.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:12:06 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:12:11 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 18:13:17 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:13:27 hello 18:13:32 hi fe[nl]ix 18:13:37 hi p_l 18:13:54 coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has joined #lisp 18:14:06 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:15:09 -!- benny99 [n=benny@p5486AE83.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:15:37 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslfx241.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:17:19 that you for your answers - now I can start developing the program 18:17:21 -!- catnap [n=tommi@nec0.kyla.fi] has quit ["leaving"] 18:20:01 brb - shopping 18:20:03 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:34 -!- oconnore [n=oconnore@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit 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you,know, the library 18:32:54 Tthat deppends. 18:33:13 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:35:50 perhaps I should just shut up 18:36:20 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-14297.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:41 ejs [n=eugen@125-123-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:47 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bf70457e423a855c] has joined #lisp 18:44:25 -!- cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-181-141-65.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:47:39 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-180-129-66.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:23 Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:52:41 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:54:00 -!- gzip4 [n=xxx@ws102.zone134.zaural.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:00:29 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 19:03:44 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 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[n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 20:10:55 zen_balrog [n=johnnyc@adsl-71-157-163-55.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:08 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:23 -!- saikat` [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-173-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [] 20:30:15 woodz [n=woodz@host81-158-175-254.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:14 Hey guys, I would like to export some functions which I generate using a macro. Is there some possibility to add them to the :export list of a defpackage? 20:31:44 clhs export 20:31:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_export.htm 20:32:23 stassats`: Ah, thanks. 20:32:34 -!- ejs [n=eugen@125-123-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:33:57 -!- woodz [n=woodz@host81-158-175-254.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 20:34:15 woodz [n=woodz@host81-158-175-254.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:34:28 Joreji: Note that on some implementations, if you reload the code, you will get some hollering about redefining the package with fewer exports. 20:34:41 If practical, it would be better to have your macro generate the defpackage. 20:37:40 kpreid: Well, the macro is used in a different file which *depends* on the defpackage. 20:37:55 ejs [n=eugen@125-123-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:04 No idea how to solve that. 20:38:55 Don't re-evaluate your defpackage, or have the defpackage in a macrolet that pulls a list of exported functions? 20:39:07 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.247.53] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:40:45 dysinger [n=tim@166.129.105.166] has joined #lisp 20:41:16 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has left #lisp 20:41:56 dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 20:42:47 nyef: But the defpackage is compiled before the use of the macro. How could I pull a list of exported symbols before the macro gets a chance to populate that list? 20:43:05 You wouldn't. You're covering for the case of recompiling the defpackage afterwards. 20:44:27 -!- mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3c156e91d02a9d3c] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 20:45:35 or you could ignore it. why should you ever compile the defpackage again? :) 20:45:59 Ah, okey. So basically, if the package already exists simply export the same symbols as have already been exported. 20:46:24 hefner: In case I add some exports manually :?) 20:46:50 do you care about the warning? 20:46:57 -!- woodz [n=woodz@host81-158-175-254.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 20:47:24 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:48:42 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-41-149.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:04 Good point. I don't. 20:49:42 -!- jophish [n=jophish@80-47-44-71.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:50:18 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp370.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 20:51:41 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:51:41 -!- enn [n=eli@codeanddata.com] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:51:41 -!- cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 20:52:00 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 20:52:00 cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has joined #lisp 20:52:00 enn [n=eli@codeanddata.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:44 jophish [n=jophish@80-47-44-71.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:53 saikat_ [n=saikat@76.14.66.94] has joined #lisp 21:03:18 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:03:30 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@76.14.66.94] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:03:43 Soulman__ [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 21:03:53 saikat_ [n=saikat@76.14.66.94] has joined #lisp 21:03:54 -!- Soulmann [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:04:20 saikat__ [n=saikat@67.188.108.159] has joined #lisp 21:07:36 brandelune [n=suzume@pl710.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:08:03 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-50.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:08:15 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-154-169.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 21:11:10 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:35 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 21:15:16 Merlim [n=fgdfgdf@unaffiliated/merlim] has joined #lisp 21:15:35 -!- Merlim [n=fgdfgdf@unaffiliated/merlim] has left #lisp 21:15:54 *hefner* stares at spooky "deleting unreachable code" warning at a backquoted lambda inside a macro after C-c C-k that goes away when he C-c C-c's the macro. 21:16:23 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-205-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:58 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:21:28 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@76.14.66.94] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:24:00 bobf_ [n=bob@host81-158-233-170.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:16 "Compilation failed: 0 errors 1 warning 0 notes". Eh? 21:25:11 compile-file returned T as the third value 21:25:32 -!- anekos is now known as A_anekos 21:25:33 "T for Tertiary value"? 21:25:54 gigamonk` vs gigamonkey 21:26:01 fight! 21:26:23 billion monks vs. billion monkeys? 21:26:23 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.126] has quit ["Log this!"] 21:26:24 So it writes a .fasl file but says it failed. WTF 21:26:38 gigamonkey: SLIME. 21:26:42 gigamonkey: Sounds about right to me. 21:26:52 nyef: eh? 21:27:05 Writing a fasl file. 21:27:13 Even if it's a broken fasl. 21:27:13 slime is inconsistent, it loads it with C-c C-c, but not with C-c C-k 21:27:14 stassats`: I just did a COMPILE-FILE at the REPL and indeed get T as the third result. 21:27:16 Very normal behavior. 21:27:56 jmbr [n=jmbr@251.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:28:31 i am not a monkey 21:28:35 i am a a Ape 21:28:42 So is this some goofy SBCL PITA option to fail compilation because of any warning? 21:28:54 (Turns out I had a duplicate definition.) 21:29:23 gigamonkey: asdf, I believe. 21:29:28 Great. 21:29:35 it's combination of slime's and sbcl's behaviour 21:29:37 *gigamonkey* is a bit cranky because his site is down at the moment. 21:30:02 I don't think it's slime, same thing happens at the REPL. 21:30:18 (Unless SLIME is setting some dynamic var which is affecting things.) 21:30:21 (load (compile-file ...)) doesn't work? 21:30:32 Oh, dunno. 21:30:58 I assumed if COMPILE-FILE said it failed, then no point LOADing it. 21:31:08 that's what asdf assumes, as well (: 21:31:20 peddie [n=matthew@DARWINAWARD.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:31:21 Which is, of course, where I need it to actually work. 21:31:57 So is this as SBCL oddity/design choice that it sometimes returns failure-p as T even though it produced a perfectly usable .fasl? 21:32:29 s/as/a/ 21:33:15 gigamonkey: (defvar *compile-file-failure-behaviour* #+sbcl :error #-sbcl :warn) <- from asdf.lisp 21:33:19 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-28-75.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:33:21 Hey, is there some way to remove a particular :before method from the list of applicable before methods? I'd like to skip particular methods using call-next-method. 21:33:42 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright. Until you hear them speak."] 21:33:46 gigamonkey: afaik, a duplicate definition in a compilation unit warrants a full warning. am searching the spec right now 21:34:09 sthuebner [n=user@erft-5d80d894.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 21:34:18 Warning fine. So return T for warnings-p. But failure-p? 21:34:47 "failure-p is nil if no conditions of type error or warning (other than style-warning ) were detected by the compiler, and t otherwise." 21:34:49 clhs compile-file 21:34:49 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp_fi.htm 21:35:25 I see. 21:35:29 sry : 21:35:43 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:36:00 (was quoting from the lw docs, not the hyperspec, so is phrased differently) 21:36:36 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@193.52.24.125] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:37:59 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 21:38:37 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:39:35 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:39:45 *gigamonkey* is glad SLIME is taking the time to highlight the 1,245 notes I'm not going to read. 21:39:47 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:39:47 Soulmann [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:02 -!- Soulman__ [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:42:26 ruediger_ [n=ruediger@62-47-138-38.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:44:17 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 21:46:20 -!- GrayShade [n=GrayShad@79.117.186.37] has quit [] 21:48:01 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-43-128.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:49:38 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@79.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:55:13 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:58:18 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-131-110.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:58:57 -!- ejs [n=eugen@125-123-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:00:18 -!- nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:01:01 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:01:06 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [] 22:02:24 -!- jdz_ [n=jdz@87.110.12.247] has quit [] 22:02:38 -!- nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving the office."] 22:03:49 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@251.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:03:59 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:05:22 nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:10 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp370.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 22:09:42 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:10:30 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:12:57 rread_ [n=irchon@32.157.0.146] has joined #lisp 22:13:37 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:13:40 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:43 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:14:58 -!- rread_ [n=irchon@32.157.0.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:18:07 rread_ [n=irchon@32.157.0.146] has joined #lisp 22:18:07 -!- rread_ [n=irchon@32.157.0.146] has quit [Client Quit] 22:19:04 rread_ [n=irchon@32.157.0.146] has joined #lisp 22:20:11 so, I was wondering how this lock can still be held after aborting back to the slime repl from inside with-lock-held, when I remembered that Slime can evaluate in another thread (that hasn't actually returned) and generally do whatever the hell it wants. 22:20:24 jophish_ [n=jophish@80-47-44-71.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 22:20:33 -!- rread_ [n=irchon@32.157.0.146] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:50 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslfx241.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:22:17 but maybe I'm wrong. It doesn't make a lot of sense, and my attempts poking at sb-thread functions resulted in it magically being released. 22:22:31 -!- jophish_ [n=jophish@80-47-44-71.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:22:48 -!- jophish [n=jophish@80-47-44-71.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:24:37 parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:09 projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 22:28:00 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:28:11 parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:22 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@79.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:28:42 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:29:49 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslfx241.osnanet.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 22:31:58 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has quit ["Valete!"] 22:32:26 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-14297.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:32:39 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:34:27 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44afbf.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:34:44 Is there a way to do fast integer division (just discarding the fractional part)? 22:34:57 (floor (/ ... ...)) is way slooooooow. 22:35:03 the fixnum the fixnum the fixnum 22:35:43 them bones, them bones, them bones, sha lalala 22:36:04 *antoszka* looks into fixnums. 22:36:07 (floor num denom) ? 22:36:12 don't forget "the" 22:36:17 -!- Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:36:19 Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:36:53 antoszka: Give us an example of an expression you want to compute. 22:37:41 Guest30359: (integer-division 123 10) => 12 22:37:42 antoszka: read the spec for floor or truncate. (floor (/ ...)) is pretty much never what you want to do. 22:37:56 pkhuong: 00:34 < antoszka> (floor (/ ... ...)) is way slooooooow. 22:38:08 antoszka: (floor 123 10) ==> 12 22:38:14 antoszka: [18:37] < pkhuong> antoszka: read the spec for floor or truncate. 22:38:15 Ah, this way. 22:38:20 pkhuong: Sorry. 22:38:36 *antoszka* is way duuuuuuuumb. 22:40:20 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:41:29 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 22:42:48 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483BF98.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:42:50 -!- jewel [n=jewel@41.145.64.64] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:43:19 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:44:39 xan [n=xan@9.Red-83-42-12.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:12 klausi_ [n=klausi@port-92-193-63-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:45:45 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:47:39 -!- dandersen [n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen] has left #lisp 22:48:48 How can I make certain code run when a slot-value is changed? 22:49:15 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-41-149.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:49:31 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [" g'night!"] 22:50:02 meingbg: if you make everything go through accessor GFs you can use :around, :before, and :after methods. 22:50:10 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:50:11 Otherwise, you may need to use the MOP. 22:51:50 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:51:53 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:06 -!- saikat__ is now known as saikat` 22:52:23 gigamonkey: MOP scares me. 22:52:36 don't do it. use accessors. 22:52:56 hefner: Yeah, that sounds simple enough. 22:54:01 although with-accessors makes grown men weep. 22:57:15 you could also make the slot a subclass of a normal slot, and redefine the reader and writer methods on that one (I think) 22:58:18 hefner: Well, it's not crucial that with-accessors work. However, I have almost 20 classes, all with a common root-super-class, and there is this one little thing I want done whenever any slot in any of these is changed... putting accessors on all of them, then defining GFs for every slot would make this code repeated a trillion times, if I don't macro that out. Is there not a neater way? 22:58:43 madnificent: slots are classes? Hmm, interesting. 22:59:09 oh, with-accessors should work for free. I just like using with-slots whenever I can possibly get away with it. :) 22:59:25 meingbg: look into the mop 22:59:31 amop has a similar example 22:59:37 that does sound like a moppish situation. 23:00:03 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 23:00:51 meingbg: http://www.lisp.org/mop/dictionary.html#slotd-mo-readers 23:01:20 *hefner* wonders how he so successfully avoids ever having to use the MOP for (almost) anything 23:01:36 hefner: by thinking in a non-metaprogramming-context? 23:02:01 *madnificent* wonders how java programmers get around copy-pasting all that code 23:02:26 madnificent: by automated copy pasting 23:02:28 sure, if you can rephrase that in a way that's complementary to me and derogatory toward most uses of the mop. 23:02:33 madnificent: Alt-Insert 23:03:22 i started rewriting binary-types from pcl using the mop 23:03:33 don't know how its going to turn out 23:03:39 *meingbg* wonders why java programmers don't need to use mop... 23:03:41 ugh. it doesn't need rewriting, it needs to be aborted. 23:03:44 I was just pointing out that you can perfectly live with many features, it's just that you might be able to write things easier if you use the tools given to you 23:03:59 hefner: what do you propose 23:04:41 I remember having a discussion here with someone that didn't ever use macro's and found them dumb 23:05:36 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 23:05:45 parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:55 xristos: I don't know that I propose anything, except writing code that creates illusions for the sake of first-classness. Generating CLOS classes to wrap around binary data is just indirection and pure waste, and that's the sort of thing that makes your lisp imagine 200 MB before you've actually done anything. 23:06:00 *image 23:06:12 "..*doesn't* create illusions.." 23:06:16 *hefner* gives up, goes back to the hacking 23:07:09 except when you do need those indirections 23:08:07 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-114-96.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:08:26 I might need all kinds of things, but I don't walk around lugging a 50 lb hiking pack every day. 23:08:31 heh 23:08:37 -!- dysinger [n=tim@166.129.105.166] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:09:03 i partly agree but this is not an issue of first-classness 23:09:19 there's a lot of code that gets rererewritten for the lack of a sufficiently smart compiler 23:09:35 madnificent: The link you gave me seems to be about slot metadata only? 23:10:16 meingbg: could be, it should contain about everything about CLOS though (the complete file that is) 23:10:27 meingbg: I read amop and it was quite interesting 23:10:36 -!- Joreji [n=user@42-104.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:11:45 kpreid: ..because a sufficiently smart compiler would write it for you? =p 23:12:27 no, because you could write the fully general version and have the compiler optimize out the 50 lbs 23:12:56 madnificent: What is amop? 23:13:24 minion: tell meingbg about amop 23:13:25 meingbg: please see amop: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the sepcification of MOP at http://www.lisp.org/mop/ 23:15:05 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-17-177.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 23:16:30 kpreid: its called a macro 23:16:42 xristos: no 23:16:55 that's a way to produce more output for less input 23:17:09 I'm talking about less output for more input, that is, specifically what you need 23:17:23 what does this have to do with anything 23:17:32 xristos: no, a macro is what one often uses instead of being able to exploit an SSC. 23:17:34 output/input are irrelevant 23:17:51 you want to go from the generic to the specific 23:19:09 ssc ? 23:19:22 -!- xan [n=xan@9.Red-83-42-12.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:19:23 sufficiently smart compiler. 23:19:25 be specific, be concise, be consistent 23:19:51 err, but those are not up to 11! where is the rest ? 23:19:56 lol 23:20:26 don't shoot your neighbours ip! 23:20:56 received it now 23:21:18 pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:08 -!- buggarage [n=user@xdsl-87-78-75-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:25:00 I found GF slot-value-using-class, which is what I need, but it seems to not be defined in sbcl? defmethod warnes "Implicitly creating new GF"... 23:25:05 buggarage [n=user@xdsl-87-78-75-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:25:17 s/warnes/warns/ 23:26:21 look into package sb-mop 23:26:51 -!- sthuebner [n=user@erft-5d80d894.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:27:03 xristos: ok, thx. 23:27:10 -!- projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has quit [] 23:27:47 meingbg: require closer-mop 23:28:19 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:28:40 madnificent: sounds portable. 23:28:49 xristos: do you use different nicknames? 23:29:00 no 23:31:27 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:33:33 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:35:23 -!- KingThomasV [n=KingThom@c-76-122-37-30.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 23:36:25 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-76-122-37-30.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:14 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-205-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:44:51 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:48:05 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:57:24 -!- meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"]