00:00:55 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 00:03:26 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 00:03:37 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:06:01 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:08:16 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:13 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-158-127.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:12:42 -!- milaz [n=user@85.175.32.101] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:13:18 milaz [n=user@85.175.32.101] has joined #lisp 00:16:36 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:17:05 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 00:19:44 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 00:20:35 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Client Quit] 00:26:47 -!- milaz [n=user@85.175.32.101] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:42 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:32:33 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:34:25 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@84.131.173.214] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:35:57 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1D204.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:42:45 chessguy [n=chessguy@c-76-124-142-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:05 brnhck [n=hrk@acurwa004091.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:45:24 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B1680D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:47:23 benny [n=benny@i577A04F5.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:49:09 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:49:43 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 00:49:51 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:49:55 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:15 kidd1 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:21 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087CD21.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:51:21 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:51:31 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:53 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:04:08 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 01:06:42 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:12:07 mejja [n=user@c-a3b3e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:16:26 neocon [n=filburt@70.44.195.123.res-cmts.brd2.ptd.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:40 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB ! 01:17:43 i concur! 01:17:52 -!- desu is now known as ljrbat 01:17:56 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@c-76-124-142-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:18:05 at least it's technically correct 01:18:48 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.148.222] has joined #lisp 01:19:40 i don't understand what my code is doing anymore .. methods make stuff jump around everywhere; kinda hard to follow even with STEP :) 01:19:53 -!- neocon [n=filburt@70.44.195.123.res-cmts.brd2.ptd.net] has left #lisp 01:20:02 lnostdal: OO code tends to be like that, yes. 01:20:16 yeah, i gotta be careful .. heh 01:20:24 all praise OO, possibly the most overhyped thing ever 01:20:48 nah, communism and democracy both beat it by a wide margin. 01:20:52 buggarag` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-29-117.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:21:23 yeah, sun did a good job around 1996 .. i was thinking objects; they are everywhere .. like that xkcd comic wrt. "it's .. it's all made of cons-cells" .. heh :) 01:21:40 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:21:41 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-100-30.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:21:52 *hefner* can't relate 01:22:07 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:22:33 hefner: damn communism, always stealing my exaggerations 01:22:35 i don't think i understood oo around 1996 so it seemed cool at the time .. i certainly didn't know about lisp & clos 01:22:40 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:23:18 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 01:23:32 -!- ljrbat is now known as desu 01:23:39 at least lisp seems to do oo in a reasonable manner... even though it can still be a pain IMHO 01:24:08 yeah, i think so 01:25:56 I simply find it sad that OO is seen as the solution to everything, even when it can sometimes make matters far worse 01:26:15 certainly when using languages with limited expressiveness 01:29:13 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.148.222] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:35:40 Is there any preferrable regexp package I should use? 01:35:49 -!- brnhck [n=hrk@acurwa004091.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:35:55 cl-ppcre, konr 01:36:23 -!- buggarage [n=user@xdsl-87-78-100-30.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:37:48 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:38:12 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-29-117.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:39:33 is there (besides cl-ppcre) a set of packages that virtually every lisper agrees upon? (cl-opengl springs to mind) 01:39:45 asdf is yet another one 01:40:17 hm, alexandria? 01:40:21 minion: recommended libraries? 01:40:21 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 01:40:21 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 01:40:41 cffi also 01:40:44 alexandria, if only because cffi depends on it so it's basically rammed down your throat 01:40:57 minion: current recommended libraries? 01:40:58 current recommended libraries: Some people somewhere believe that the libraries on this page are considered "good enough for government use", and serve as a starting point when looking for a library covering a given field. http://www.cliki.net/current%20recommended%20libraries 01:41:18 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 01:41:47 bordeaux-threads too i think 01:42:19 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:43:38 *hefner* feels utility libraries are like having your neighbor hang their underwear to dry in your back yard 01:43:41 hey, alexandria:parse-body etc. is pretty nice .. what do yo uuse, hefner ? 01:43:47 CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.97.213] has joined #lisp 01:45:35 (incf CLTL3) 01:45:47 cltl4? 01:46:03 :) .. 4 is a bit too soon; we aren't even at 3 yet 01:47:20 stassats`: if you're willing to write both at once 01:47:41 madnificent: you incremented it, not me 01:49:09 (decf CLTL4) ;; right, so now we actually have swapped CLTL4 and CLTL3, so to add myself to the users that want the next CLTL, I'd have to do (push *madnificent* (users-that-want CLTL4)) 01:50:11 i might not live still that 01:50:22 s/still/till/ 01:51:43 *madnificent* heads to bed. Goodnight godlike creatures of #lisp 01:51:43 so far, the major innovation of the cltl3 initiative has been finding an angle (or at least a name) that didn't immediate provoke hate 01:52:08 hefner: impressive :P 01:52:46 declare clojure a new lisp and go home? 01:53:00 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.208.138] has quit [] 01:54:12 *lnostdal* votes for "newLisp" 01:54:15 x) 01:57:50 my proposal for evolving common lisp would remove from, rather than add to, the standard functionality :) 01:58:22 we already have scheme 01:58:42 I'm not in #scheme. 01:59:03 I'm with hefner. Remove from the standard, put more of it in a free "standard" library implementation. 02:00:10 that won't change anything much 02:01:39 xian [i=xian@pdpc/supporter/active/xian] has joined #lisp 02:02:22 stassats`: less gratuitous incompatibilities. 02:03:11 you mean one library for all implementations? 02:04:21 yes, at least as a basis. Keep the definition and implementation separate, but provide a default implementation to which every one can provide enhancements. 02:05:09 like srfi? 02:05:29 sure, if you want. I'm not interested in the process much. 02:19:05 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:21:18 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:25:52 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:26:28 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 02:34:07 -!- xian [i=xian@pdpc/supporter/active/xian] has left #lisp 02:39:57 how do you make the compiler ignore an unused variable? 02:40:10 (declare (ignore foo)) 02:41:32 and how can I make asdf-install skip the gpg tests? 02:41:47 what if the variable is conditionally used, now it gives error when it is used 02:41:57 (declare (ignorable foo)) , DeusExPikachu 02:42:01 thanks 02:45:32 konr: choose the right restart. 02:48:15 sykopomp: you mean choose the "ignore gpg keys" option? that's what I do, but isn't there a way to make asdf-install always choose this option without prompting me? 02:49:03 konr, http://www.cliki.net/ASDF-Install and GPG 02:49:11 ..url fail 02:49:24 http://www.cliki.net/ASDF-Install%20and%20GPG .. .. 02:49:38 lnostdal: thanks! 02:50:23 *hefner* wonders if it's really the convention wisdom of deprecating asdf-install is really a good thing 02:51:05 hefner: it's not good but clbuild works better for now... 02:51:17 maybe if mudballs takes over ;-) 02:51:24 *sykopomp* is still hoping mudballs pulls through for distribution. 02:53:04 *hefner* expects it will somehow manage to make things into an even bigger hassle 02:53:58 I'm also strongly biased against software developed by people who don't hang out here. :) 02:54:20 lol 02:55:57 (and gratuitously incompatible, and addressing problems I don't have while promising to cost me time if I'm forced to interact with it) 02:57:06 You know, it's things like this that led me to the path of minimizing dependencies. 02:57:52 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-29-117.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 02:57:59 -!- buggarag` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-29-117.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:58:22 an underappreciated alternative. 02:58:28 hassle of installing and deploying dependencies? is that a good thing when/if the deps. are good and would (have) saved you time? 02:58:32 mudballs has yet to seem like a good solution to me, clbuild pulls from source control rather than released versions meaning that it's hard to track defects reasonably. 02:58:44 And asdf-install is just a nightmare. 02:58:44 at least current mudballs supports loading asdf systems, afaik 02:59:07 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:59:27 i think each lispers implementing their own cl-ppcre would be a less than ideal situation for instance .. :} 02:59:30 lisper* 02:59:36 *hefner* has never used cl-ppcre 02:59:44 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 02:59:59 ok, it's a fairly common thing to use 03:00:05 ..so suitable example i think 03:00:31 I'm not sure I have cl-ppcre installed at all. 03:01:03 extending ASDF to recognize different versions (defsystem form already supports specifying version) might be a good way... 03:01:38 i think it does already? .. i've seen :depends-on mention version numbers .. i'm not sure 03:02:34 lnostdal: yes, but can you have multiple versions of the same system and pick by version? Haven't tried it yet, so I'm curious 03:02:52 *lnostdal* doesn't know 03:02:53 Hrm. I'm looking at the lisp software I actually use, and... It's SBCL, SLIME, and CLX. 03:06:42 And I rarely update any of them, due in large part to SLIME being a pain to update reasonably. 03:07:20 someone should just fork that thing already .. sb-studio, gogo 03:07:24 I don't normally care about software releases, but slime really ought to have a known good stable release that isn't years old. 03:07:37 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 03:08:05 And the last McCLIM release is more than a year old. 03:08:45 Slime development is considerably more turbulant than McCLIM (and a bigger problem if it's broken). 03:08:59 True. 03:10:16 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:19 Oh, how lovely. In order to install McCLIM you need darcs, cvs, svn, wget, -and- git? 03:12:04 do you? I'd have guessed cvs and darcs. You've listed more tools than McCLIM has dependencies. 03:12:26 Have a look at the getting started pages on the mcclim cliki. 03:13:01 The manual install page seems to just be cvs, darcs and wget. 03:14:09 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 03:14:58 oh, neat. some apps I haven't seen on the Applications page. 03:15:22 cffi-newtypes? Weren't all the cffi branches folded into mainline at some point? 03:15:44 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-215-133.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:15:55 yeah. 03:16:13 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:30 So, not only is there no recent release, but the install documentation for pulling from source control is out of date. 03:17:19 *aggieben* has begun to wonder why it's such a big deal to have some unified package installer for lisp 03:17:30 *aggieben* other language stacks don't 03:17:51 Only seven months out of date, compared to thirteen for the release... 03:17:55 aggieben: Tell that to CPAN. 03:18:32 Also, other language stacks tend to be a bit better about release engineering for their critical libraries. 03:18:36 nyef: with exceptions, of course - but nobody goes around moaning that C is doomed because there's no package installer 03:18:39 nyef: fair point 03:19:22 I'm just pointing out that, at least for Linux, distributions can do a fair job of managing all that for you 03:19:40 same is true of the BSDs 03:19:40 And they consistently tend to fuck it up for lisp. 03:19:41 *hefner* still hates it when projects point you at some view of their source repository but don't give you the command to pull/clone/checkout/etc a copy of it 03:20:16 nyef: the common-lisp overlay for gentoo portage is pretty nice. I happily use it and ignore the rest of the world 98% of the time :-) 03:21:11 Mmm... Unfortunately, once bitten twice shy. I'm even to the point of considering moving to ubuntu at some point. 03:21:32 the best thing about that overlay mechanism is that it doesn't make it really hard for you to throw in a few custom items like some of the other distributions do 03:22:05 aggieben: most of "new players" come with package management. C, C++ and similar languages didn't need that because they attained critical mass much earlier 03:22:08 I second the gentoo overlay 03:22:18 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.133.213] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:22:22 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:22:27 aggieben: and C doesn't have notion of packages, neither has C++ or Objective C 03:22:49 Anyway, I got to the point of maintaining my own installs for the stuff I use, which isn't much, and that's that. 03:23:02 As unix was build on C, there exist a kind of in-built management :) 03:23:35 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 03:24:29 p_l: all fair points - I'm not saying distributions are a silver bullet. I just think sometimes lispers see the lack of a good unified package management system (say, like Python, Ruby, Perl) as a bigger hurdle than it really is. 03:25:08 aggieben: it's a hurdle for newbies 03:25:29 Actually, I don't care about a unified package manager for its own sake. I care about it as a tool to apply social pressure to generate a release engineering culture. 03:25:44 aggieben: Rails and other Ruby stuff would never get so far if not for Gems 03:25:53 p_l: again - I just don't think it's as big a hurdle as people tend to say it is. 03:26:13 and good package manager can force release engineering :D 03:26:18 p_l: I disagree about Rails. I think it's a much bigger deal that Ruby has a single canonical implementation than Gems 03:26:23 er....Ruby, I mean 03:26:37 *hefner* wonders what the important aspects of a release engineering culture are - presumably not making tarballs with version numbers 03:27:08 hefner: It starts with making the tarballs in the first place. On a regularish basis. 03:27:09 aggieben: Sure, but the fact that instead of hunting down packages, you can install whatever newfangled toy that got released by simple "gem install toy" is a big boon 03:27:29 p_l: it's a nice convenience. There's no disputing that. 03:27:49 and there's certainly value in having releases that you have some confidence in because other people are using the same ones 03:28:39 aggieben: another thing tools like CPAN and Gems give you is automated release management - with Gems, I can "freeze" my repository, build gem and publish it, all in one nice script 03:29:04 and boilerplate for that can also be generated 03:29:15 (Rake is another part that made it so nice) 03:30:17 nyef: the tarball aspect seems a nonissue to me, since you can just as well retrieve a tagged release from version control, so the real issue seems about stability (either of interfaces, or internals) 03:30:37 (terrible; using two different meanings of stability there) 03:30:52 It's also about actually tagging the releases. 03:31:09 And doing so frequently enough to be relevant. 03:31:09 and testing them before release? :) 03:31:17 Testing is nice, too. 03:31:30 SBCL has that code-freeze period every month, after all. 03:32:43 xuanwu [n=xuanwu@c-98-223-235-49.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:23 But the SLIME equivalent "just check out CVS HEAD" doesn't inspire confidence, and if you need a historic version to go with some older SBCL or something it's -worse-. 03:34:09 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:35:18 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 03:36:41 I think I recall someone saying once that CL's flexibility is both the greatest feature and the greatest hurdle - it's often easier to hack something that fits you than to adapt to something that could be used as a standard :) 03:36:52 nyef: In that situation, I'd try retrieving a version by date. 03:37:24 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 03:37:33 hefner: And I'd start by looking for release tags near the date of the SBCL release I was interested in. 03:39:06 unfortunately, there's no --wishful-thinking option to CVS. 03:39:29 *nyef* could have sworn that was an option in git, though. 03:39:41 (It's got everything else, after all...) 03:39:49 probably, but you'll have to spend a weekend reading manpages to figure out how to use it. 03:40:16 Nah. I figured out the trick to that a little while ago. 03:40:18 *hefner* uses git a little, can't even figure out the right workflow for pushing/pulling to a canonical copy of a project on a remote server 03:40:27 What you do is you search for blog pages on the topic. 03:40:43 Or ask on IRC. 03:40:47 I've tried that, but most of them start by telling me I'm stupid. 03:41:00 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:41:06 nyef: so we have release manager implemented in IRC Programming Language? 03:41:30 human cpu power is cheaper than machine 03:41:58 So, what I've been using for pushing is push , such as for sbcl-arm it's "git push public-repo arm-port". 03:42:31 There are other forms if I want to push a local branch to a remote branch with a different name, but I haven't needed that yet. 03:42:39 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:44:50 Evening folks. 03:44:55 Hello gigamonkey. 03:47:06 Hello! 03:49:06 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:50:02 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 03:50:10 Guys, what can I do when, after evaluating a function call, I get into a "Debugger entered: nil" screen? What does it mean? It doesn't even have the continuations, as other errors do. 03:51:02 ok, versioning support in ASDF needs some work if we really want to introduce releases without overdoing things with big package managers... 03:51:20 *p_l* just checked asdf's capabilities in loading versioned packages 03:53:06 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-36-45.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:54:22 what's the story? 03:55:01 hefner: it can recognize if already loaded system is of apriopriate version, but lacks any way of loading correct version automatically 03:55:30 current defsystem syntax is just fine, it's just loader that might need some tweaking 03:56:12 there's a couple different routes one might go to improve that. 03:56:14 beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-115-146.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:56:20 I guess find-system would be the place to code :) 03:59:12 simplest form would be to append version number to system name while searching for file in find-system 03:59:26 I personally don't like maintaining a directory of symlinks, and one might replace that with a different mechanism capable of scanning multiple copies of the library with different system versions (fixing the windows problems too). Or just make it so that there's a clear way to configuring symlinks to multiple versions. 04:00:34 and default to filename without version 04:01:13 so you could have hunchentoot-1.0.asd etc. 04:01:54 it's similar to how gems do it, actually 04:01:55 yeah. I don't like fudging the filename like that, though, but maybe you're a bad person if you actually name a system "hunchentoot-1.0" 04:02:07 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E43A0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:22 beach``` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-76-136.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:02:32 hefner: loader would mangle that into "hunchentoot-1.0-1.0.asd" :P 04:02:42 <_3b> if you assume an automated tool for generating symlinks, you could have ht-1.0/1.0.asd 04:02:47 another alternative is hunchentoot/1.0 or release-1.0 or whatever 04:02:48 How can I override this 1 GB allocation "once and forever"? 04:02:49 heh 04:03:07 ASau: why do you care? fix your operating system. 04:03:33 Why should I fix OS? 04:03:39 The problem is user land. 04:03:50 ASau: You on linux? Kernel is the problem 04:03:57 No, I'm not on linux. 04:04:03 SBCL is the problem. 04:04:07 ASau: What OS? 04:04:11 FreeBSD. 04:04:31 All sane programs allocate memory dynamically. 04:04:33 hmmm... I'd have to check how FreeBSD's allocater reacts 04:04:34 <_3b> why shouldn't sbcl be able to have 1gb of address space? 04:04:48 <_3b> it allocates memory dynamically, just not address space 04:04:50 Why should it pre-allocate 1 GB? 04:04:53 ASau: SBCL also allocates dynamically - it reserves *address space*, not *memory* 04:04:59 most sane programs are written in C and do whatever libc does 04:05:12 <_3b> feel free to fix sbcl to not need to do that though 04:05:33 i think java does the same thing as sbcl 04:05:34 How can I reduce this 1 GB limit? 04:06:34 ASau: --dynamic-space-size --control-stack-size 04:06:51 first one sets what you want 04:08:50 ASau: Also, which version of FreeBSD? 04:08:55 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 04:09:08 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E43DBD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:09:23 p_l: this isn't an answer. 04:09:28 <_3b> you could adjust dynamic-space-end in src/compiler/*/parms.lisp and recompile 04:09:49 <_3b> (where * is whatever arch you use) 04:10:15 This is closer. 04:10:19 Looking... 04:10:19 ASau: FreeBSD-7 apparently declares some support for MAP_NORESERVE (it seems to have been pioneered by Sun) 04:10:25 ASau is awfully demanding for someone with a broken kernel. 04:10:53 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-113-11.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:11:17 6-STABLE also has it in headers... 04:12:04 hell, even OpenBSD has it 04:12:59 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-36-45.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:13:09 ASau: There's also incremental allocation patch for SBCL, but it's for fairly old version 04:14:29 p_l: I don't know what the hell is happening on this FreeBSD 6, 04:14:52 I just want to get it running. 04:15:15 hmmm.... my incremental-alloc build just stopped running. Joy 04:16:59 I guess someone cranked up randomization on server 04:17:43 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:17:56 CCL 32bit still runs... 04:19:01 (but running on amd64 I can forget about it...) 04:21:25 -!- beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-115-146.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:21:25 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:21:30 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.77.123] has joined #lisp 04:21:57 willb1 [n=wibenton@173-18-243-255.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:22:38 at least erlang still works... 04:23:55 you're secure against any unauthorized lisp implementations, though. 04:24:48 hefner: ECL will, probably, work 04:24:57 clisp possibly too, but I don't want clisp 04:25:02 GCL is way out 04:25:07 sounds like victory for the terrorists to me. 04:27:37 What terrorists? War on Terror was Mandy's plan to impress Death ;-) 04:29:24 this is just some overzealous grsec patch 04:29:40 yeah? 04:30:28 Yeehaaa! 04:30:33 yeah. Address space randomization so that MAP_FIXED probably works only if you're root :) 04:30:36 *gigamonkey* is making TeX do his bidding 04:31:16 *hefner* is writing more boring ffi bindings and package export lists 04:32:25 *p_l* spent few hours trying to setup NAT on Windows 2008 04:32:49 oh dear. 04:33:07 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-149-27.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:33:16 the only time it worked, I lost it after few minutes due to forgetting that it will go to sleep if I close the lid... 04:33:24 (2k8r2 on laptop) 04:33:36 and Internet Connection Sharing doesn't work 04:36:10 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:36:43 might as well reinstall it 04:38:32 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.141.41] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:38:48 huh. not sure how to declare a field like "char lang[3]" in a CFFI structure. 04:39:42 oh, (array ...). Funny that wasn't in the part of the manual I was looking in. 04:40:17 Grr! Because I'm not reading the SBCL manual, not the CFFI manual. 04:40:28 s0ber_ [i=pie@114-45-225-58.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:14 IWasALamp [n=Family@h69-128-202-231.cncrtn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:30 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-170-231.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:59:07 _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E45343.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:36 -!- beach``` is now known as beach 04:59:49 Good morning. 05:00:59 good morning! 05:01:24 can you guys point me to a project made with lhtml, so I can I take a look at the source code? 05:03:36 -!- mejja [n=user@c-a3b3e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:07:03 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:48 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:09:33 -!- IWasALamp [n=Family@h69-128-202-231.cncrtn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:12:48 Morning beach. 05:13:05 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit ["leaving"] 05:13:17 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-99-19.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:13:19 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 05:13:30 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-76-136.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:13:32 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:15:30 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-19-195.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:15:43 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-99-19.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:15:46 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:16:51 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:17:23 hefner: concerning earlier talks about "extending" asdf - would it be good idea for the versioned asdf to include a (possibly stripped) copy of cl-fad (that doesn't pollute any other namespace than asdf::) 05:17:55 -!- |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E43A0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:18:01 it would also fix win32 05:18:32 sure. I'm a staunch supporter of ripping off code from other systems. 05:19:17 -!- Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 05:19:27 ok. I'm building a win32 machine right now (read: reinstalling 2k8), so I might have a test case with CCL x86-64 05:19:28 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-74-218.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:19:44 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-19-195.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:19:48 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:20:30 (though it will have symlinks...) 05:20:31 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:20:46 win32, I mean, not versioned ASDF :) 05:22:36 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-112-35.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:22:49 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-74-218.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:22:53 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:26:36 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 05:28:45 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.144.45.62] has joined #lisp 05:31:40 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:25 -!- cel [n=cel@121.Red-79-151-50.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 05:33:21 hmmm... I've got some idea how to make this work 05:38:34 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-24-6.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:39:28 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-112-35.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:39:32 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:41:25 ejs [n=eugen@101-198-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:50 beach: you know a bit about typography and typesetting, right? 05:42:54 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:43:23 gigamonkey: Only what I have read that Knuth wrote. 05:45:08 dysinger [n=tim@166.129.122.173] has joined #lisp 05:45:09 cadabra [n=cadabra@adsl-69-107-100-31.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:09 Ah. If I can convince Apress to let me typeset the book myself, do you have any interest in looking at my attempts. 05:45:35 (Not many, many attempts--just a sanity check before I send it off.) 05:45:51 You mean, your attempts at typesetting it? 05:46:07 Or your attempts to convince Apress? 05:46:15 The former. 05:46:32 gigamonkey: I thought you were using LaTeX. No? 05:46:44 Plain Old TeX if I can get away with it. 05:46:56 Mostly because that's one less thing to learn. 05:46:58 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:48:13 gigamonkey: Well, LaTeX is the one that contains quite a lot of typesetting knowledge that you would otherwise have to supply yourself. 05:49:08 Mmmmm. In terms of book formatting, page layout foo, or lower-level than that? 05:49:55 *hefner* wonders if TeX (versus LaTeX) is sufficiently low level that "write a layout engine in lisp" becomes a competitive alternative 05:50:15 Basically I'm modeling mine on the design of Founders at Work (which is probably not a great book design but is okay and I'm sure what Apress wants) and then figuring at least I'll have good line-breaking and ligatures. 05:50:22 gigamonkey: As I recall (but this dates back a while), TeX supplies the low-level stuff. 05:51:04 hefner: I've been using cl-typesetting. Unfortunately they've no one has gotten around to implementing Knuth's line breaking algorithm or something better. 05:51:19 hefner: Closure contains an implementation of the TeX line breaking algorithm. 05:51:45 I've heard so much about this line breaking algorithm, finally I must experience it for myself. 05:53:17 hefner: it's a simple but working one, afaik 05:53:36 *hefner* is reading wikipedia.. minimize square of space at end of line.. 05:56:33 -!- ejs [n=eugen@101-198-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:59:20 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-111.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:00:22 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@adsl-69-107-100-31.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:02:57 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:54 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.97.213] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:04:37 It would be fun to make it incremental, the way Gsharp does. 06:05:54 *manic12* is wondering what the name of the standard lisp listener font is in Genera 06:05:58 aggieben: sure, if you don't try to outsmart everyone, we'll do it for you for free. 06:06:39 *hefner* was screwing with the genera fonts the other day, but for whatever reason couldn't get them to appear in xfontsel 06:07:19 aggieben: you only need to follow simple rules. 06:07:36 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-111.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:09:18 ejs [n=eugen@101-198-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:12 -!- dysinger [n=tim@166.129.122.173] has quit [] 06:13:03 dys` [n=andreas@p5B316E1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:04 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:18:55 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B316625.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:19:51 -!- ejs [n=eugen@101-198-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 06:21:57 ejs [n=eugen@101-198-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:24 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-120-123.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:23:03 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-24-6.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:23:07 -!- beach` is now known as beach 06:29:14 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:30:02 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:30:58 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:17 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-81-1.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:33:33 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:34:19 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:35:11 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-143-130.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:14 Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 06:46:49 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:46:58 How can I write binary data to *standard-output* ? "WRITE-BYTE on # is illegal" says clisp. 06:48:11 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:48:17 -!- Cools [n=Cools@CPE000f661aca54-CM001692fae248.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 06:48:21 and when I redirect to a file, it's still "WRITE-BYTE on # is illegal" 06:51:39 CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.103.173] has joined #lisp 06:53:26 <_3b> looks like you could try (setf (stream-element-type *standard-output*) '(unsigned-byte 8)) on clisp, though bad things might happen if clisp tries to print anything there afterwards 06:54:19 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 06:54:27 _3b: great ! 06:54:51 Adamant_ [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:52 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:55:07 <_3b> ah, see http://www.gnu.org/software/clisp/impnotes/stream-eltype.html 06:55:28 <_3b> looks like you should use ext:make-stream to make a binary stream and use that instead 06:56:43 _3b: hmmm. very non conformant. 06:57:18 <_3b> how so? 06:57:34 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:57:55 I try to make my program work on both clisp and sbcl. 07:00:20 <_3b> should be easy to abstract out 07:00:58 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-50-127-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:02:52 you are right. But I always feel bad when I write impl specific code, event when it's in a well confined file part. 07:03:27 aren't you going to have to do the same sort of thing on SBCL? 07:05:46 jmbr [n=jmbr@245.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:06:13 <_3b> yeah, that seems like a reasonable place to need implementation specific code 07:06:42 reasonable if you take for granted that CL streams are stupid, anyway 07:07:09 <_3b> right, was about to say reasonable in the context of the spec as it is :) 07:07:11 hefner: yes, I will have to make it work on sbcl too 07:10:14 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 07:10:33 -!- jthing is now known as younder 07:17:35 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@38.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:26:07 -!- stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:27:12 -!- tttsssttt [n=pussycat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit ["Coyote finally caught me"] 07:30:05 stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:51 tttsssttt [n=pussycat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:33 -!- stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 07:32:50 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@245.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:36:25 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-19-188.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:36:27 ThomasI [n=thomas@91-64-196-100-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 07:37:52 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:38:45 stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:38 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 07:53:23 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:57:22 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-28-30.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:05:06 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:06:53 morning 08:06:59 hello jbjohns 08:09:21 the talk about asdf version is interesting. Seems to me that the problem breaks into two sides: (1) how to get the packages by version and (2) how to store them locally by version. (1) would need special handling depending on the repo it's in. For example, if the central location ASDF gets the package info just had a pointer to a repo and the type then on e.g. a darcs repo, pulling... 08:09:23 ...version 1.1.0 would mean just pulling that tag 08:09:57 and then you could have simple tarball repos that are just package-name.version.tar.gz 08:10:44 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 08:11:03 bb in a bit (going with the fam on bikes) 08:11:54 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.120] has joined #lisp 08:12:33 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.120] has quit [Client Quit] 08:13:34 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.120] has joined #lisp 08:19:46 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.162.22] has joined #lisp 08:22:39 I am having trouble stopping Huncentoot. It just hangs. And worse it doesn't release the socket. 08:23:28 <_3b> try reloading a page it is serving 08:24:31 Can't not. Shut it down yesterday. And now I can't connect as the socket is "in use". 08:24:53 <_3b> it doesn't respond if you try to connect to it? 08:25:18 Yes, it does. 08:25:34 <_3b> though if it is that long ago, might not be what i was thinking of 08:27:01 It's CVS version of huncentoot. (from a month back) 08:28:15 <_3b> might try a newer version, if it does that a lot... remember hearing about some problem with it not shutting down properly, but not sure if that sounds like the same problem or not 08:29:11 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:52 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-205.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:30:16 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 08:32:46 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:33:31 Hrm a update to usocket.. Have to rebuild the image.. Later.. 08:34:54 -!- ejs [n=eugen@101-198-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:35:47 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has left #lisp 08:37:09 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 08:37:16 -!- younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has left #lisp 08:37:41 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:37 younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 08:41:41 younder: only if you use sbcl, ofcourse. 08:41:56 yes I do 08:42:10 (at the moment) 08:46:55 vy [n=user@88.229.31.130] has joined #lisp 08:52:08 c|mell [n=cmell@x250003.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 08:52:33 guille_ [n=user@106.Red-83-39-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:42 hi 08:54:44 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 08:54:55 which one is the equivalent of sprintf? i'm having a rough time googling it 08:55:14 (format nil ...) returns a formatted string 08:57:30 now i see why, i know format, i was thinking in scanf (to bound variables from a string) 08:59:02 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@38.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:59:02 thx. i guess i can use scanf with multiple-value-bind 09:03:06 xof wrote a (setf format) once. it's insane in several ways (: 09:03:14 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:03:20 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:04:14 chuckler1 [n=fa@117.192.131.82] has joined #lisp 09:05:29 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 09:05:29 -!- chuckler [n=fa@117.192.129.193] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:06:05 chris2 [n=chris@p5B1691CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:07:18 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 09:08:04 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:17:01 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:17:57 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 09:18:11 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-81-1.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:20:30 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 09:22:59 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.120] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:23:02 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-46-58.lns2.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:39 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-4-238.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:25:24 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.144.45.62] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:25:27 ken-p`` [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 09:26:13 -!- vy [n=user@88.229.31.130] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:28:25 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:35:50 jbjohns: in my opinion management of the systems themselves should be left to outside program, not inside ASDF. A simple extension wrt loading to make it respect version numbers would be fine, probably with few specified values for "repo" version 09:36:32 yeah. yeah! 09:37:09 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-157-16.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:37:25 elias` [n=me@resnet-pat-254.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:37:35 local storage I found to be awesomely easy, basing it on gems model, thanks to the magic of cl-fad 09:38:54 a separate set of "developer utility scripts" could be used to maintain user/systemwide package sets 09:39:31 p_l: outside of ASDF sure, but ASDF-install maybe 09:39:54 I mean, you need the whole package right? Get the package with all dependencies and then use it 09:40:26 jbjohns: yes, but I'd prefer to have download/install part outside of loader part 09:40:27 p_l: what's the gems model? 09:40:46 Thought about this during the bike ride and personally I would prefer the local side to be handled by having a layout like, e.g.: Hunchentoot/1.0 Hunchentoot/1.1 etc. 09:40:51 hefner: dirs named like "gemname-" 09:40:51 p_l: 100% agree 09:40:54 -!- jophish [n=jophish@80-47-236-51.lond-th.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:41:20 but the user (i.e. us) needs to have a good way of taking a clean slate and just doing one thing to bring in all dependancies 09:41:36 jbjohns: nothing stops manager program from parsing asd definitions and downloading them from repos 09:41:48 jophish [n=jophish@80-47-44-71.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 09:41:49 p_l: I still think a separate version subdirectory would be better. 09:42:38 hefner: that can be done too - I don't have anything against it, I just used a model that I know and which meshed nicely with what I had in my head already :) 09:42:38 I don't necessarily like the idea of just making a require statement might go out on the web and do stuff, but I would like a: "asdf-install package version" and then after that it's on my system 09:43:10 p_l: I can think of good arguments against my idea, too, come to think of it. :) 09:43:41 given that no one actually tars systems in that directory structure presently, that is. 09:43:52 what I think will be important is making a nice set of utils so that people don't feel it's bothersome to release 09:44:02 I'm with hefner. With the version subdirectory the asdf def for a package doesn't need to specify what version it is. The dev just applies a label when he's ready, you do "asdf-install" on it and that's it 09:44:58 jbjohns: ASDF already includes version tag and my proposal used versioned dependencies (also present in ASDF) 09:45:02 well, I guess it ends up being the same difference as tacking it onto the package name, but I don't like adding data into the file name itself 09:45:35 p_l: version *dependencies* yes. But do systems already have a way to specify which version they are? 09:46:30 jbjohns: yes, it's part of defsystem form 09:46:52 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-251.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:46:58 ah. 09:47:04 <_3b> can we actually do anything useful with versions even if all this stuff worked? 09:48:00 _3b: less things getting broken by update? Less conflicts between some stuff you want to run but not hack on, which requires older version of some lib that conflicts with another project? 09:48:08 _3b: I would think so. You define your system, the packages it depends on, with versions and everything works. It gets interesting when e.g. Hunchentoot needs cl-fad 1.1 and your specific web shot component needs cl-fad 1.3 09:48:08 <_3b> or is the goal to be able to easily replicate a specific state without just tarring up the whole thing 09:48:21 _3b: that too 09:48:41 it would be easy to later add support to something like cl-launch so you could package apps 09:48:50 <_3b> don't see how it will stop breakage on updates, since things will still update out of sync 09:49:05 If you do what I suggested you wouldn't need to package apps. Just label and that's it 09:49:15 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-251.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 09:49:34 _3b: keep versions, so that only the correct versions get loaded 09:49:34 The central server just has: hunchentoot, 1.0, darcs, some.dns.location 09:49:38 libmpg123 is such a tease. It can read id3 tags. Why not write them? :) 09:49:39 -!- ken-p` [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:50:16 <_3b> p_l: which is 'correct' if you depend on 2 versions of the same system ? 09:50:46 <_3b> (and who is going to set up the versioned dependencies in the first place?) 09:51:03 <_3b> *set up and keep current 09:51:07 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit ["Am I missing an eyebrow?"] 09:51:13 _3b: that's what the versions are for. your system is just a bunch of packages, each with different dependancies 09:51:50 <_3b> jbjohns: how did packages get involved? (or are you mixing in non-lisp terms?) 09:51:50 _3b: you don't write some huge glob called god-package that depends on 2 versions of the same thing. the god-package depends on things that depend on different versions, and having the version info will solve that issue imo 09:52:02 well, one problem at a time. solving simultaneous loading of different versions is doable, but implies intrusive changes to the systems. 09:52:03 _3b: sorry, I meant systems 09:52:32 ah....... brain asleep, I see where you're going now 09:53:00 _3b: author of system writes his version deps into (defsystem ...) based on what he knows works, while loading it gets resolved so that proper version ends loaded 09:53:14 milanj [n=milan@93.86.55.153] has joined #lisp 09:53:17 >_3b> can we actually do anything useful with versions even if all this stuff worked? 09:53:21 now I get what you're saying 09:53:33 <_3b> p_l: so if i want to use a system that hasn't been updated since 2007, i can't use a newer version of any of its dependencies? :) 09:53:51 the plan we've talked about would 100% pick the right versions of every dependency. And then when it loaded into Lisp itself it crashes with package clashes 09:54:29 <_3b> jbjohns: no, 100% pick a conservative subset of the 'right versions' 09:54:39 _3b: if nothing else, maybe it's enough to either act as a placebo or as the spearhead of a new trend toward releasing versioned tarballs. 09:54:41 <_3b> (or else not pick 100%) 09:54:44 _3b: you can - if the systems didn't change their interfaces, why should you exclude versions? Like "I need *at least* version 1.0" 09:54:50 so in that case, I'll retreat to: It just gives one a good way to have a snapshot of all packages known to work. That's better than it is now, no? 09:55:31 <_3b> p_l: then you run into the problem of convincing everyone to mark changed interfaces predictably in the version #s :) 09:55:57 how does gems deal with this? 09:56:01 they would have the same problem 09:56:10 as would CPAN and every other system 09:56:18 <_3b> (don't let me discourage you from trying it though) 09:56:50 jbjohns: you update version number every time you push a new release, stuff that depends on your code uses things like "requires version >=1.0" (not that syntax, but idea the same) 09:56:58 well I personally think being able to say "I'm releasing my new CMS system, I built it with exactly these versions of everything and it worked" is a big step forward 09:58:30 p_l: Yes, but I mean these two: (1) I have a really complicated system that depends on complicated sub systems. One of your subsystems needs an older version of some key component then some other subsystem 09:58:38 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [] 09:58:59 and (2) the interface *does* change so "require >= 1.0" causes breakage 09:59:23 jbjohns: sure, it's not ideal - it works, though 09:59:27 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B1691CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:59:46 I don't feel comfortable saying once you make an interface it's frozen. That's how you get things like Java (had to work with Java the other day. If you're not fluent it's a huge pain to figure out which classes are the *modern* way to e.g. open a fhile) 10:00:15 jbjohns: gems work probably because of "release early, release often" mentality 10:00:19 and tools that make it easy 10:01:34 the three-part numbering scheme is a good way to indicate breaking interfaces 10:01:37 well, in that case, maybe it's not the ideal model for Lisp since it wont be like that for some time and even if much of it could be tomorrow, key components wont follow that. 10:02:14 you could specify that you require 0.9.x with x>2 (because there was some bug that got fixed in 0.9.3, for example) 10:02:26 ok, that might be a solution then. if you specify a version dependancy the first 2 places are fixed, but the last one can be whatever is newest 10:02:52 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:02:52 it's how python does it with easy_install/pkgutils 10:02:55 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:04:19 but I still like the ability to "snapshot" my project and specify exactly which versions of everything worked with it 10:04:40 http://pastebin.com/d613622c3 <--- I dare to say we can do better than that kind of syntax ;-) 10:05:12 maybe we have a *variable* that says if to be exact or not. Or you could say if I do dependency on version 2.1 then that means 2.1.* but if I say 2.1.10 then it is pinned to that version 10:05:21 sorry, I meant global variable, not variable in bold 10:05:40 jbjohns: then use that code as a base for something that could snapshot the state, so you could for example dump it somewhere on server as ready-to-run 10:06:13 jmbr [n=jmbr@144.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:07:44 well, maybe the easiest is if the system definer just specifies all dependencies exactly and we have a global variable somewhere that says if we should be exact or not. That way the default can be the handling you described, but if the system breaks we can switch to exact versions. Then if it works we know one of the packages broke it in a recent version (i.e. lied on their version number) 10:08:06 cpape` [n=user@p5484DAD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:11 sorry, one of the subsystems* 10:08:24 one of the subsystems lied about their version (interface change) 10:09:06 the best thing is that, at least as far as I have taken my experiments, it can be completely cross-platform 10:09:37 excellent. Does that mean getting rid of this awful practice of making symbolic links? 10:09:48 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 10:09:56 jbjohns: yes 10:10:05 no symbolic links, none at all 10:10:09 good. 10:10:34 <_3b> also, how does all this compare to mudballs? 10:10:57 which one is mudballs? Is that the one that's worried about confining side effects and all that? 10:11:14 or is that xcvb or similar? 10:11:31 _3b: mudballs could be adapted (probably with small changes) to use the same local storage (since current version afaik supports loading ASDF systems) 10:13:11 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:18:30 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-111.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:21:00 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@224.234.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:21:57 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 10:24:38 -!- guille_ [n=user@106.Red-83-39-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:26:35 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 10:28:02 Spyderco2 [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 10:28:50 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 10:33:41 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-78-36-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:38 milanj- [n=milan@79.101.197.222] has joined #lisp 10:37:52 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:38:55 guille- [n=user@106.Red-83-39-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:03 -!- guille- is now known as guille_ 10:39:41 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.55.153] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:40:01 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-78-36-62.netcologne.de] has quit [] 10:40:12 which is the equivalent of multiple-value-bind but for an array 10:40:12 instead of the multiple values returned? 10:43:40 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:45:33 (let* ((a ) (x (aref a 0)) (y (aref a 1)) (z (aref a 2))) ...) 10:45:40 guille_: easy to write a macro to do that... 10:46:04 (even if the array is multidimentional). 10:48:09 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:51:34 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:53:19 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 10:53:24 hello 10:54:44 Hi! 10:56:19 attila_lendvai: hi. I'm writing a utility to cascade purge-instance to some of the slots of a cl-perec:persistent-instance. I thought there might be such a function existing somewhere and I didn't find it. 10:56:28 hi pjb` 10:57:33 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.103.173] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:57:51 kami-: hi. i doubt, we very rarely use purge-instance... 11:01:15 hrm, I'm looking at mudballs, this actually looks pretty good 11:01:20 what are arguments against it? 11:01:56 attila_lendvai: OK. Another question: I am creating OpenOffice documents from templates and it would be very convenient, if the customer could create the templates herself. For that, it would be very nice, if I could leverage wui::localized-slot-name in the opposite direction. The resource lookup is in the end a hash-table access, right? 11:02:48 kami-: hrm... that's not going to be trivial.. itcl-l10n 11:03:12 attila_lendvai: do you keep the information, to which class and slot the name belongs? 11:03:14 ...it's a ht lookup, but cl-l10n allows using closures, not only constant strings... 11:04:00 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-81-1.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:04:04 kami-: also, the localization lookup goes through a few combination of slot name and class name... to have something like an inheritance for localizations stuff 11:04:08 Ah. Right: I can have functions in defresources. 11:05:05 kami-: i would force my users to use the lisp names of the slots and give them a documentation, preferably in a form of clickable metadata in the application 11:05:07 attila_lendvai: which means that the easiest way to get there is to expose the class and slot names (which are in English in my code base) to them. 11:05:17 yes 11:05:38 attila_lendvai: yes. this is a very good idea (the clickable documentation). 11:06:04 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.120] has joined #lisp 11:06:54 kami-: the metagui can be driven by the metadata also, administrators could click class names in titles a few patches ago... levy is doing a not-so-small overhaul there, but the infrastructure is capable for that 11:07:29 (make-viewer (find-class 'foo)) should work 11:07:40 i mean something along the line... 11:07:51 attila_lendvai: and I can mechanise the instance -> slot -> subslot insertion into the document with something like the JSP Expression Language: ${payer.address.postal-code} 11:08:47 attila_lendvai: how far has levy got with that overhaul? Do you recommend to pull those changes, yet? 11:09:11 kami-: yes, but i would use the normal xml qq mechanism... read the template file, append and prepend to make it a big lambda, call compile, and there you go 11:09:35 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.217.120] has quit [Client Quit] 11:09:52 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@224.234.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:10:18 kami-: not yet, but it mostly works... it won't change the concepts only the details, so you are safe working with the current codebase... 11:10:50 i think sometimes early next week it'll be in a reasonable state (we'll leave to els on wednesday) 11:11:40 attila_lendvai: you bring in a completely new way of doing the OO doc creation! Currently, I'm remote controlling an OOo instance with pythononlisp. 11:12:04 kami-: btw, we will also need such a template mechanism to generate fancy further editable reports, probably sometimes soonish... 11:12:27 attila_lendvai: you proposed to read it as xml? 11:12:42 kami-: ahh, drop that! generating the xml based open doc formats is really simple 11:13:05 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 11:13:09 to be honest, I haven't event /thought/ about that :) 11:13:38 kami-: no. read it in as a big string, prepend "(lambda ()" and append ")", call compile and funcall the result with the proper qq environment 11:13:55 -!- dys` is now known as dys 11:14:06 kami-: look at src/component/exportable.lisp 11:14:42 attila_lendvai: I will do immediately! Thank you! 11:14:59 kami-: we can already export any html gui table as an openoffice xml document. also 11:15:08 other formats 11:15:34 ejs [n=eugen@101-198-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:15 kami-: if you search for "render-ods" in the wui codebase you'll find the bits and pieces required to emit ods xml 11:16:16 attila_lendvai: I need an oowriter doc with a header, a table with invoice-items and a footer. 11:17:27 mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a0947003e15f0f0e] has joined #lisp 11:17:30 kami-: think like this: the xhtml (xml) output of the component tree that goes as an active gui in the browser is just one of many formats you can project it to... 11:17:45 ods is a passive presentation of the same stuff 11:18:33 kami-: hrm, render-ods might be something post-overhaul... iirc it was (def (render ods) ... ) 11:19:03 attila_lendvai: no, there is render-ods. And I can see how it should work. 11:20:56 attila_lendvai: but that takes away the possibility, that /they/ create the template (layout etc.). It would be nice, if I could take one single document (which they create with their own corporate layout) and run it through the export. But xml and qq could still be useful. 11:21:39 *kami-* just never looked at how such a doc looks like in xml 11:22:47 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:24:14 kami-: that's just a few extra lines at the top of the doc creation to read in a template. all they need to get used to is the unusual (but imho much better) cl-qq-xml syntax... but if you want a proper xml based template that's not too har either. you need to create a cxml doc builder that builds the needed cl-qq AST and call into cl-qq (this part probably requires a better understanding) 11:25:19 although neither of these will give you WYSIWYG editing... but won't get that for any quasi quoted stuff any time soon... 11:25:59 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:27:36 we were looking for support for that in open office, but it's beyond their imagination. with their xml syntax they should support skipping unknown xml nodes and saving them back transparently. with a little support to tell the OO engine in which context to start again when a quoted part is found in an unknown (unquoted) area... 11:28:16 attila_lendvai: if they do the wysiwig, that takes away a big burdon (and time-consumer) from our shoulders. I just unzipped such a file and am looking into the content.xml to see how the 'mail merge' fields look like. 11:28:35 hi guys, just released tpd2 http://github.com/vii/teepeedee2/tree/master -- a very fast webserver in common lisp 11:28:51 that way one could create an xml document template that contains some control nodes for quotation and unquote, including the relevant lisp code, and OO should be able to edit that document marking "funny" (uneditable) parts... 11:29:19 vert fast... that doesn't sound too good... :) 11:30:26 attila_lendvai: they were reluctant because they wanted to validate the doc? 11:30:26 c|mell: interesting results. how does hunchentoot fare under the same circumstances? 11:30:33 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C3BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:02 comparing ruby or php to your implementation in lisp will always compare vm quality as well. having a closer point of reference would be useful 11:31:30 c|mell: (referring to the pdf handout you linked in the readme) 11:31:32 Mmmh. content.xml of an oowriter document hangs my emacs in nxml-mode. 11:31:36 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-29-117.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:31:56 kami-: i didn't get into interaction with them about it. i realized that there are no signs of this in the application, so it's kinda hopeless to start talking about it. if i met one of the main developer for a coffee i'd tell him my ideas, but not in written form... 11:33:03 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:33:11 kami-: there are two OO xml formats. one of them is a zipped big something, but there's a single-file version with is much easier to produce... 11:33:47 hi antifuchs i believe that hunchentoot wouldn't be competitive, can you show me a tuned example for a comparison benchmark 11:35:02 fuss claimed to make a change that made it able to do 1000 requests pr second here the other day 11:35:11 antifuchs, the benchmark is just to say "hello ${name}" for name passed in as a get or post parameter 11:36:05 younder, yeah that was not for dynamic pages i think and it's not competitive 11:36:14 younder, i got about 4k on one core of my laptop 11:36:35 gray streams are slow 11:37:26 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp370.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 11:37:51 Can anyone explaiint to me why stop just hangs (hunchentoot)? 11:38:15 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F3F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:17 <_3b> younder: did you try a newer version yet? 11:38:19 wui is also in the 2k-4k range, and i didn't make any compromises for speed 11:38:31 *attila_lendvai* runs that benchmark 11:38:52 wow, I'm looking at mudballs, it seems to have everything we talked about before. I'm wondering at this point what is the advantage of retrofitting asdf to do what this already seems to do 11:39:04 _3b: udated from source today. Just a unrelated update to the usocket lib. 11:39:27 <_3b> younder: ok, no idea then :( 11:39:39 hey attila_lendvai what is wui? not this wui.sourceforge.net 11:40:18 c|mell: it's just a repo for now: http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi/darcsweb.cgi?r=cl-dwim-wui;a=summary 11:40:51 -!- Zenton``` [n=user@77.210.190.191] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:41:00 As a work-arond I am explicitly closing the socket and the waiting for a error. Then I terminate the tread. Not elegant. But at least it releases the socket. 11:41:13 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 11:41:55 Zenton``` [n=user@77.210.190.191] has joined #lisp 11:42:02 (usocket:socket-close (hunchentoot::acceptor-listen-socket blog::*blog-server*)) 11:42:25 attila_lendvai, if you will send me a way of doing the simple benchmark then i will add it to my graph 11:42:54 bear in mind that this benchmark is on my slow laptop on only one core 11:43:35 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp370.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 11:43:52 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp370.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 11:44:41 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 11:46:03 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 11:47:40 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:48:02 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 11:48:46 c|mell: i think my 2k-3k results i remember were on two cores though... i'm setting up the test and i'll push it into the repo soonish 11:49:42 attila_lendvai, thanks and pm ilitirit (my work nick) if i've dropped from irc 11:52:08 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:18 -!- ken-p`` [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:52:56 -!- guille_ [n=user@106.Red-83-39-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:54:01 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:54:48 attila_lendvai: the easiest way to embed lisp in the 'Flat XML OpenDocument Text' (that seems to be the name) would be ,(call-some-fn ...), right? 11:55:24 chris2_ [n=chris@p5B1691CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:56:06 c|mell: 1600/sec, but it's goes through the application logic, much more than needed. i'll create a raw test now... 11:57:25 kami-: yes 11:57:35 -!- ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:58:26 c|mell pasted "(tpd2 benchmark" at http://paste.lisp.org/+1QAT 11:58:56 hey attila_lendvai i think this was my old benchmark code if you want to compare it 11:59:38 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250003.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit ["gtg pm ilitirit (my work nick) please"] 12:02:04 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 12:02:58 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:03:08 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 12:08:35 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:31 it's 2k without the application logic 12:11:56 -!- mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a0947003e15f0f0e] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 12:12:13 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:17:26 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 12:17:31 with a little tuning it goes up to 2900/sec on my laptop 12:19:54 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 12:20:21 -!- robewald_ [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has quit ["leaving"] 12:22:16 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:22:43 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:25:00 prabuinet [n=prabu@117.193.197.69] has joined #lisp 12:25:25 segv [n=mb@p4FC1D0B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:30 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-46-58.lns2.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:26:06 why defmethod raises error: the generic function ... takes 1 required argument ... 12:27:36 prabuinet: My guess: Your defmethod definition is not congruent with an earlier defgeneric definition of the same name 12:27:54 for example, there's a (defgeneric foo (a b)), and then you try (defmethod foo (a) ...) 12:28:03 yes, previously i defined without an extra parameter. 12:28:07 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 12:28:15 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:28:24 now how to define with additional parameter 12:28:53 prabuinet: You first redefine the generic function by re-evaluating the defgeneric form (with two parameters now) 12:29:14 delqna [n=delqna@p54A36BBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:23 previously it was (defmethod foo ((a cls)) ...) ; now i want to change it to (defmethod foo ((a cls) x) ...) 12:29:24 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 12:30:52 prabuinet: (fmakunbound 'foo) 12:31:45 tcr: thank's it works! 12:34:57 tcr: how to know what are the methods in a class 12:35:43 prabuinet: In Common Lisp methods do not belong to a class but to a generic function 12:35:55 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C3BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["I am Locutus of Borg! You will assist us!"] 12:36:20 prabuinet: methods _specialize_ on classes, so your question may be how to find out all methods which specialize on a certain class 12:36:34 oh! 12:36:40 (in your example above FOO would specialize on the class CLS) 12:37:02 Notice that methods can specialize on more than one classes: (defmethod bar ((a CLS1) (b CLS2)) ...) 12:37:04 can foo specialize on two classes at the same time 12:37:09 Yes 12:37:38 That's the reason why a method cannot, even conceptually, belong to just one class 12:38:29 And it's one reason where Common Lisp's Object System is superior to object systems of many other languages 12:38:36 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 12:38:56 what is that 'fmak' in fmakunbound 12:39:10 letexpx [n=letexpx@ABordeaux-753-1-15-158.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:39:13 function make unbound 12:39:22 ilitirit: sent you a mail with the details 12:39:24 it's an old function hence its cryptic name 12:40:49 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 12:40:54 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-7478.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 12:41:07 someone should create a package with more sane function names for the standard lib... like that xcl what dlowe did for replacing -p with ? only broader... 12:41:21 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:41:58 to my faint or heart make-function-unbound sounds much better than fmakunbound 12:42:34 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 12:42:37 *attila_lendvai* goes to eat instead 12:46:27 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.133.213] has joined #lisp 12:49:56 -!- chris2_ is now known as chris2 12:52:13 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C3BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:54 *kpreid* would rather have unbind-function 12:55:24 make- more often means 'create' than 'cause to be' 12:55:39 delete-function? 12:55:51 a la delete-package 12:55:59 delete-fdefinition 12:56:11 <3 12:57:00 what about (setf (fdefinition foo) nil)? 12:57:12 iirc that's specified to work for find-class 12:59:33 milan [n=milan@77.46.219.186] has joined #lisp 12:59:33 but fdefinition doesn't return nil 12:59:59 what about undefmethod 13:01:15 prabu_ [n=prabu@117.193.202.39] has joined #lisp 13:03:27 -!- milanj- [n=milan@79.101.197.222] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:03:45 -!- letexpx [n=letexpx@ABordeaux-753-1-15-158.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:04:03 hrm, it seems that mudballs uses a different structure for defining systems. Seems odd, it doesn't seem to provide anymore then defsystem does 13:04:27 milanj- [n=milan@93.86.55.244] has joined #lisp 13:04:37 letexpx [n=letexpx@ABordeaux-753-1-15-158.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:05:07 I would guess that at the very least it /requires/ a version, too, otherwise it is doomed to fail in similar was than ASDF 13:05:14 -!- Spyderco2 [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:05:27 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 13:05:40 -!- letexpx [n=letexpx@ABordeaux-753-1-15-158.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 13:07:18 well defsystem can have a version too, no? 13:07:24 milanj [n=milan@93.87.151.120] has joined #lisp 13:08:35 kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:22 mudballs is an abomination 13:10:42 it's an ASDF* - like DEFCLASS* 13:11:18 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.86.55.244] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:11:19 only that it doesn't even have less syntax than ASDF, it's just rearranged a little 13:11:38 milanj- [n=milan@93.87.166.24] has joined #lisp 13:12:13 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 13:12:42 hmm, is there a roadmap/tutorial/book/post on closure html you guys suggest me to learn closure-html? It certainly is huge 13:13:34 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.151.120] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:14:22 envi_home2 [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:20:12 -!- prabuinet [n=prabu@117.193.197.69] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:20:13 -!- milan [n=milan@77.46.219.186] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:20:39 -!- envi_home2 is now known as envi_home 13:22:48 kpreid: yep, unbind-function sounds better. the old bad name sent me to the wrong path... 13:24:16 -!- konr [n=konrad@c953c6dd.virtua.com.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:24:25 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:24:34 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 13:25:24 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:27:36 konr: can expect doc more than this. look into the examples. 13:27:39 -!- younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has left #lisp 13:27:45 konr: can't expect doc more than this. look into the examples. 13:28:37 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-19-46.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:03 younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 13:31:21 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B1691CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:32:01 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:32:35 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:35:28 milan [n=milan@79.101.220.27] has joined #lisp 13:38:16 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2D39A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:38:20 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@71.236.25.127] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:38:28 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-29-117.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 13:38:37 attila_lendvai: what is the easiest way to set up a qq xml env? with-quasi-quote-syntax? 13:39:14 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-182-131-168.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:39:44 kami-: see qq/test/xml.lisp, setup-readtable-for-xml-test and emit/xml 13:39:58 attila_lendvai: thanks. 13:42:11 mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns01bbg-142068078172.dhcp-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:20 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-34-221.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:44:46 maybe my google-fu is just a little weak this morning, but does anyone know of a c.l.l or blog post outlining debuging with slime/sbcl? 13:44:57 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.87.166.24] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:48:26 I don't think there is. 13:49:06 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 13:49:26 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [] 13:49:28 tcr: interesting. Time to break some code I guess ;-) 13:52:18 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:52:25 -!- Martinp23 [i=martinp2@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23] has quit ["brb"] 13:53:15 Martinp23 [i=martinp2@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23] has joined #lisp 13:55:14 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-78-36-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:55:45 CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.104.238] has joined #lisp 14:02:18 fxr [n=user@85.110.141.160] has joined #lisp 14:03:00 -!- fxr [n=user@85.110.141.160] has left #lisp 14:04:28 Gertm` [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 14:04:33 white-rabbit-obj [n=cpc5@c-69-143-160-4.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:48 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:05:22 Corun [n=Corun@host86-143-210-38.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:17 -!- Gertm` [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:16:25 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 14:21:52 ak70 [n=user@195.158.89.203] has joined #lisp 14:25:13 guille_ [n=user@106.Red-83-39-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:30 hi 14:25:37 hello guille_ 14:27:08 (defmacro multiple-list-bind (names lt &rest body) 14:27:08 `(let ((list-source ,lt)) 14:27:08 (let ,(loop for n in names 14:27:08 for idx upto (length names) 14:27:11 collect `(,n (aref list-source ,idx))) 14:27:14 body))) 14:27:20 hell, i thought i was in the repl... 14:27:59 list-source ought to be a gensym 14:28:47 minion: tell guille_ about lisppaste 14:28:47 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 14:29:20 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-67-102.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:29:22 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:29:33 -!- Corun [n=Corun@host86-143-210-38.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 14:29:51 antoni [n=user@44.pool85-53-9.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 14:30:05 pjb`: i know, sorry i was watching the tv and though it was the repl :) 14:30:42 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.104.238] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:34:02 attila_lendvai: the openoffice doc starts with attila_lendvai: does that mean that I didn't quasi-quote correctly? 14:36:31 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-78-36-62.netcologne.de] has quit [] 14:36:55 -!- antoni [n=user@44.pool85-53-9.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:37:23 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@144.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:37:33 Ppjet6 [n=ppjet@ivr94-11-88-187-39-7.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:53 jmbr [n=jmbr@144.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:41:52 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:04 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:52:07 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 14:53:44 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp370.studby.uio.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:54:16 -!- white-rabbit-obj [n=cpc5@c-69-143-160-4.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:58:39 blbrown [n=Berlin@71.236.25.127] has joined #lisp 14:59:35 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:02:57 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:03:07 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 15:06:16 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:06:50 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:08:21 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 15:08:55 slackaholic [i=1000@187-24-153-180.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 15:12:31 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:12:52 -!- milan [n=milan@79.101.220.27] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:13:06 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:13:13 Greetings. 15:13:37 hello tmh 15:13:37 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-24-153-180.3g.claro.net.br] has left #lisp 15:13:37 How do I replace the REPL with my own loop? I'm playing around with stuff and I don't want characters that I type to be echoed. 15:13:49 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:22 er, just write your own and enter it? 15:19:09 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:19:16 mik8y [n=user@124.60.31.83] has joined #lisp 15:19:38 slackaholic [i=1000@187-24-153-180.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 15:20:01 hi everybody! [again... :P ] 15:20:47 kpreid: I was experimenting outside of the loop with READ-CHAR, when I typed a character, it was always echoed. It won't be if READ-CHAR is called from the loop? 15:21:43 tmh: that's more likely your terminal than any CL thing 15:22:30 -!- prabu_ [n=prabu@117.193.202.39] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:24:08 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 15:24:23 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:24:35 is it possible to call functions which are defined at runtime, like (flet ((fun...))) but with dynamic binding for fun? 15:25:18 (without funcalling a function wich is assigned to a variable) 15:27:17 silenius [n=jl@f053006040.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:28:26 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:28:41 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:50 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:29:40 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:30:39 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:45 kpreid: Ah, so I'd have to muck with terminal configuration. There's some code in phemlock that might give me some hints. Thanks. 15:34:30 timor: Yes, just the way you did it, (flet ((fun ..)) (fun ...)) 15:36:28 timor: no 15:36:43 timor: No, functions are lexically scoped. You can emulate dynamic binding by special variables which contain function objects. 15:36:53 kpreid: I must have misunderstood again, huh? 15:36:58 you can of course assign and restore the fdefinition, but that is not a true dynamic binding and is not thread-safe 15:37:04 beach: he asked for dynamic scope 15:37:06 I assume 15:37:24 Ah, that sounds plausible. 15:37:31 timor: No! :) 15:37:44 timor: For an elaborate framework around this and more you can take a look at ContextL 15:38:23 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 15:39:28 I guess one could store the fdefinition in a temporary variable, stick a new one in there, and undo before exiting. Sort of the way one would do special variables if they weren't built-in. 15:39:40 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-74-88.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:40:11 beach: and thread-unsafe. 15:40:21 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 15:40:34 minor detail :) 15:40:46 good evening, beach. 15:42:27 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:45:23 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:04 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 15:48:29 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-84-109-137-43.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:48:35 thanks 15:49:41 I would like to use cl-interpol to read in a file which contains ${(lisp forms)}. How can I set up the read-table correctly? 15:50:47 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1D0B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:51:02 segv [n=mb@p4FC1D0B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:24 milanj [n=milan@79.101.220.27] has joined #lisp 15:55:12 borism [n=boris@195-50-204-149-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 15:59:57 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 16:02:58 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:03:08 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:05:30 JohnnyL [i=crashcar@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:35 hi beach 16:06:36 beach: i'm trying to upoad somewhere else. it seems all student web services are affected, notjust the webmail interface. i wasn't aware of that 16:08:23 under sbcl, whats the "scope" of a declaim? file? package? image? 16:09:38 -!- mik8y [n=user@124.60.31.83] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:10:04 series links are b0zorkenedz0rs. 16:14:37 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 16:14:50 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 16:20:24 -!- jroes [n=jroes@rube.serapio.org] has left #lisp 16:23:53 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:24:15 Krystof [n=csr21@AMontsouris-153-1-34-132.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:25:16 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 16:26:28 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-215-133.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:05 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-24-153-180.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:57 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@144.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #lisp 16:33:47 oudeis [n=oudeis@80.250.159.240] has joined #lisp 16:37:45 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:38:52 drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:41:18 xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:41:39 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-4-238.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:42:03 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:28 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:44:20 letexpx [n=letexpx@ABordeaux-753-1-15-158.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:44:47 prabu_ [n=prabu@117.193.202.39] has joined #lisp 16:45:31 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-74-88.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:46:55 -!- ChopperDave is now known as Draggor 16:47:18 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:49 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C3BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:49:22 -!- guille_ [n=user@106.Red-83-39-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 16:50:48 -!- envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:52:44 jmbr [n=jmbr@144.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:53:57 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:55:21 oudeis_ [n=oudeis@84.228.63.80] has joined #lisp 17:00:02 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:00:09 -!- drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:03:29 anyone here use weblocks. 17:03:58 ? 17:05:24 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:06:35 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-75-192.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:08:41 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 17:09:02 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 17:09:59 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@80.250.159.240] has quit [Success] 17:10:34 weblocks? 17:10:56 danlei [n=user@pD9E2FB64.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:50 -!- _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E45343.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:13:57 Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:14:12 -!- chuckler [n=fa@117.192.141.4] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:15:59 you said weblocks ? 17:16:40 letexpx true true. 17:16:54 are you people getting carrier malfunction on your end or what? 17:22:16 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.162.22] has quit ["Log this!"] 17:25:16 many broken links in lisp prducts 17:27:23 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 17:28:00 -!- cpape` [n=user@p5484DAD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:28:55 jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 17:29:08 reiners [n=reiners@mn-71-51-143-183.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:08 PrMoriarty [n=vasco@APuteaux-754-1-32-63.w90-44.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:29:26 hm, nice .. the slime backtraces show frames in several colors now(?) .. green is stuff defined in user packages, or? 17:29:35 hello i am searching tutorial or example of lisp implementation in C programming 17:29:44 lnostdal: No, those frames are restarable 17:29:51 ah, ok, tcr 17:29:56 lnostdal: they're _surely_ restartable 17:30:17 i want to learn lisp to add it s power in my C programming there is a way to use the lisp interpreter in C program? 17:30:35 (it s possible with python for example) 17:31:02 lnostdal: There's also an extra face for maybe-restartable, it's the same as non-restartable by default though 17:31:10 PrMoriarty: ECL is a CL implementation designed to be embeddable 17:31:19 Hello 17:31:25 minion: ecl? 17:31:26 ecl: Embeddable Common Lisp, a member of the KCL Family, is a Common Lisp implementation initially developed by Giuseppe Attardi and currently maintained by Juan Jose Garcia-Ripoll. http://www.cliki.net/ecl 17:31:26 kpreid, nice thank you 17:32:45 *JohnnyL* provides PrMoriarty with a Shuttlecraft and an onboard holograhm generator. 17:34:01 i like designing my C stuff as libraries and load that into the Lisp image (instead of the other way around; "loading Lisp into C"), PrMoriarty .. .. that way pretty much any Lisp implementation can be used .. in particular any supported by CFFI 17:34:14 > (cffi:foreign-funcall "strlen" :string "Hello World" :uint) ==> 11 17:34:31 http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/ 17:35:23 ..that was Lisp calling C .. the other way around is known as "callbacks"; http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/defcallback.html 17:36:10 ruediger_ [n=ruediger@62-47-146-20.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:36:28 the restart-facility on a pr. frame basis is nice .. i feel i do not use what's there wrt. the debugging power of lisp / slime 17:36:35 , tcr 17:36:49 lnostdal, it s look difficult but intersting 17:38:24 i think it is more common to do it this way in "Python land" also; people design libraries in C, then load those into Python instead of the other way around, PrMoriarty .. gtk+, libcurl, etc. etc. etc. 17:39:36 lnostdal, i understood the mechanism 17:39:44 chessguy [n=chessguy@c-76-124-142-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:41 jao [n=jao@4.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:15 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:48:54 what is the typical web frame work for lisp? 17:49:46 hunchentoot and cl-who perhaps? 17:50:01 or try cl-weblocks, has more magic, but is more complex 17:50:52 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:20 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:20 cl-who is just a library for producing HTML 17:52:32 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-157-16.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:53:01 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:54:01 rsynnott: true, but one or two macros and cl-who make it easy to build a simple framework 17:54:23 ...on hunchentoots back 17:54:24 yep 17:54:53 hunchentoot itself is really just a webserver, but building a rudimentary framework on top of it is fairly easy 17:55:01 ak70` [n=user@195.158.89.203] has joined #lisp 17:55:36 gchin [n=gchin@63.81.254.3] has joined #lisp 17:55:43 it does handle some framework'y things like sessions 17:56:00 -!- ejs [n=eugen@101-198-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:56:26 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:26 ..it's very easy and quick to define higher-level sessions on that .. CLOS based, perhaps 17:58:34 are cl-who, weblocks used on any high profile sites? 17:59:29 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:59:54 hm, there is a collection of links somewhere... 18:00:59 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@213.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:01:55 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-7478.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:02:15 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:05:22 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@144.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:05:51 http://paragent.com/ these guys us lisp (i'm pretty sure they use sbcl), but i'm not sure whether they use hunchentoot or ucw or something else 18:05:56 Ppjet6_ [n=ppjet@ivr94-11-88-187-39-7.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:04 -!- Ppjet6 [n=ppjet@ivr94-11-88-187-39-7.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:06:22 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 18:06:32 lnostdal: ucw 18:06:43 ok 18:08:04 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-157-76.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:12 xach's wigflip thing uses tbnl, a hunchentoot predecessor 18:09:54 -!- ak70 [n=user@195.158.89.203] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:12:55 ??? : in clim when i call (sleep 1) why pane is not painted properly? 18:13:16 any idea guys? 18:13:24 prabu_: the application is sleeping instead of redrawing. 18:16:06 -!- silenius [n=jl@f053006040.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:16:19 pkhuong: how do get the gui-thread 18:17:51 hello, if I defun a function inside another function, does the sub function get "recreated" every time the outer function is called? 18:18:15 depends on how you define it 18:18:31 prabu_: depending what you're trying to do, this message might be applicable: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcclim.devel/1728 18:19:28 -!- letexpx [n=letexpx@ABordeaux-753-1-15-158.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:19:58 do you guys use any of these webframes? 18:20:01 *stassats* misread defun for define 18:20:06 hefner: thanks, i will try it out 18:20:26 gchin: with defun it is defined each time you call the outer function 18:20:40 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 18:21:12 stassats: so it is considered bad form to define nested functions like that? 18:21:19 yes 18:21:22 hi i want to collect every second item in a list i came up with: (delete-if-not #'identity (loop for elem in '(1 2 3 4) for count from 1 collect (when (= 0 (mod count 2))elem))) but that doesn't seem like a very good solution. is there a better one? 18:21:23 clhs labels 18:21:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_flet_.htm 18:21:31 gchin: use labels instead 18:21:48 stassats: alright, thanks 18:21:49 klausi: (loop for i in list by #'cddr collect x) 18:22:17 erm, s/ i / x / obviously 18:22:23 Krystof: thx. with by i can set the increment function? 18:22:35 Krystof: thx. with "by" i can set the increment function? 18:23:45 klausi: http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/sec_6-1-2-1-2.html 18:24:16 Krystof: thx 18:24:29 -!- gchin [n=gchin@63.81.254.3] has left #lisp 18:27:42 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:44 Hello all. 18:28:29 hello nyef 18:28:52 -!- Adamant_ [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 18:31:13 i guess not 18:32:37 JohnnyL: If you have a question about them, just ask. 18:33:14 beach I am just wondering if they are in use/development/active/supported. otherwise I'd rather not take the fall. 18:33:31 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:34:39 yakman_ [n=bot@94-194-134-155.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:34:53 -!- yakman_ [n=bot@94-194-134-155.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 18:35:22 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:35:39 i see there is only one tutorial page on weblocks. wtf? 18:35:46 it appears to be cool. just not 'there'. 18:37:41 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:39:15 how many tutorials do you need? 18:39:29 stassats well, a reference guide would be nice. 18:40:43 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 18:42:46 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C3BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:41 anyone watching IPL 18:44:01 what's that? 18:44:08 -!- jophish [n=jophish@80-47-44-71.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:44:44 international poker league ? 18:45:28 cricket; Indian Premier League!; sorry off topic; i pasted in the wrong tab; 18:46:19 Is that similar to the 7-year locusts in the US? 18:47:00 letexpx [n=letexpx@ABordeaux-753-1-15-158.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:47:26 Ogedei [n=user@ip54508552.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #lisp 18:47:34 no 18:47:58 I just set up hunchentoot as a proxy server to apache. Why am I getting error "403 FORBIDDEN"? 18:48:31 hunchentoot as a proxy server? 18:48:45 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:48:57 sorry apache is the proxy.. 18:49:10 bit tired.. 18:50:15 a lisper should not get tired 18:50:22 Some sort of permission thing. 18:50:41 Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:51:45 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:51:51 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-157-76.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [] 18:52:22 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@c-76-124-142-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:53:26 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:53:26 Ahh.. probably need to set the permission to the uri path. 18:54:02 i'd check if i can access HT directly first, younder .. http://localhost:4242/ (if you gave 4242 as :port argument) 18:54:19 ok 18:54:44 younder: what does apache's error log say? 18:56:41 milanj- [n=milan@79.101.197.68] has joined #lisp 18:58:00 Which is cheaper at the callee site, returning (values) or returning nil? 18:58:29 nyef: doesn't it expand to the same thing? 18:58:42 No, why would it? 18:58:51 because I thought so (nvm) 18:58:51 if inlined 18:59:04 Yeah, if it were inlined it might, but that's not the case I'm worried about. 18:59:23 dissassemble looks cheaper with nil 18:59:55 -!- prabu_ [n=prabu@117.193.202.39] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:59:57 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:14 Hrm... Okay, thanks. 19:00:18 client denied by server configuration: proxy:http://127.0.0.1:8080/hunchentoot 19:00:29 rsynnott: .. 19:01:14 -!- letexpx [n=letexpx@ABordeaux-753-1-15-158.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:02:11 stassats: if inlined, there's no difference, otherwise, (values) is slightly more code. 19:02:58 -!- Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:03:06 Inostdal: I can access the server directly yes 19:03:08 Gertm [n=user@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:03:43 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-111.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:05:15 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.220.27] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:05:19 ejs [n=eugen@101-198-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:42 milan [n=milan@93.87.167.104] has joined #lisp 19:07:50 younder: you've probably set up apache proxying incorrectly 19:07:58 I think there's an example on the hunchentoot site 19:08:40 *rsynnott* doesn't use apache thee days and can't remember the gory details 19:08:53 I looked at it. Seems i have localhost:8080/hunchentoot/blogs.html instead of localhost:8080/blogs.html 19:09:51 letexpx [n=letexpx@ABordeaux-753-1-15-158.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:12:37 -!- Ppjet6_ is now known as Ppjet6 19:13:02 dizpater [n=dizpater@173-128-255-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:07 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-81-1.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:15:11 -!- mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns01bbg-142068078172.dhcp-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:15:48 Nop.. Geuss I'll plow into the apache documentation 19:15:51 later.. 19:16:02 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-082-146.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:40 milanj [n=milan@79.101.232.183] has joined #lisp 19:19:11 -!- milan [n=milan@93.87.167.104] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:19:20 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 19:21:49 -!- JohnnyL [i=crashcar@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:22:09 -!- milanj- [n=milan@79.101.197.68] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:22:31 -!- jao [n=jao@4.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:22:34 JohnnyL [i=crashcar@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:49 As I though I needed a access control block in my huncentoot.conf file.. 19:24:00 works fine now :) 19:28:34 -!- oudeis_ [n=oudeis@84.228.63.80] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:28:42 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-143-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 19:31:58 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:32:04 borsman [n=quassel@76.177.217.216] has joined #lisp 19:33:30 -!- kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:34:58 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-204-149-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:35:00 any users of cl-interpol here? 19:36:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@101-198-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:36:13 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@AMontsouris-153-1-34-132.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:36:32 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1D644.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:25 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:37:36 -!- borsman [n=quassel@76.177.217.216] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:37:58 borsman_ [n=quassel@76.177.217.216] has joined #lisp 19:38:16 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1D0B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:40:35 madnificent: No it's very different. multiple-value-list of a function returning (values) is '() whereas of a function returning NIL is '(nil) 19:41:09 -!- borsman_ [n=quassel@76.177.217.216] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:41:36 jobf [n=jbf@c80-216-238-151.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:41:49 can I read the contents of a file and apply a modified readtable to its content? 19:42:28 kami-: not if by "and" you mean some temporal order. 19:42:39 stassats`: Do you think you could come up with a test case for the ,disconnect disconnects everything by creating an additional swank server in a thread, and then connecting to that? 19:42:59 kami-: you may read a file with the *readtable* bound to your own readtable, yes. 19:43:55 kami-: notice that soon it becomes more fun to use read-line or read-char and write your own lexer and parser... 19:44:15 kami-: (apropos "*READ-") 19:45:02 cl-interpol installs a reader function on #? and in a string which looks like this: #?"...${var} ...", var is substituted 19:45:51 tcr: it disconnects for me all connections, even in different images and different lisps 19:46:04 kami-: there must be a function to get cl-interpor readtable. You may use it or just copy the #? dispatching reader macro to your own readtable. 19:47:02 pjb`: the function is interpol-reader. 19:47:06 kami- pasted "enable-interpol-syntax" at http://paste.lisp.org/+1QB6 19:48:32 pjb`: when I call (enable-interpol-syntax), which read-... function is my new readtable applied to? Is anything which is read, read with the new readtable in effect? 19:48:59 jmbr__ [n=jmbr@140.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:49:13 stassats`: Sure, I just thought it may be easier to write a test case this way. 19:49:18 The *readtable* is only used by READ (and therefore LOAD and COMPILE-FILE). 19:49:44 tcr: what for do you need a testcase? 19:49:54 stassats`: Basically what I'm trying to say, I'll apply your patch the moment you provide a test case. 19:50:02 pjb`: so, read-sequence is not affected by the readtable. 19:50:40 stassats`: To avoid the same problem in future. 19:50:42 No, it won't. 19:50:43 tcr: it's not even a bug, disconnect is explicitly written to do so, even docstring its says so, do you really need a testcase? 19:51:42 Yes, the test suite has to get better. I know that problems which were fixed before, popped up some time later again because the code in question was rewritten. 19:52:05 -!- jmbr__ is now known as jmbr 19:52:32 stassats`: Such a test case would test for other things implicitly, too, for example for two simultaneous connections. 19:52:45 stassats`: what happen to your patch to slime? 19:53:37 tcr: ok, i see 19:53:48 pjb`: but I could write sth like '(setf *content* #?"' in front of the original content, and a ) at the end and then load it? 19:53:50 tcr: i'll try 19:54:09 leo2007: what do you mean? 19:54:49 kami-: using READ is always problematic because of security considerations. There is certainly a better function in cl-interpol to use. 19:55:12 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:55:16 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-19-188.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:55:52 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:56:46 stassats`: the bug I reported to slime and you fixed 19:57:13 leo2007: i only provided a fix, it wasn't yet applied 19:57:58 stassats`: i see. I just don't want to upgrade slime and get a broken one 19:58:44 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 19:58:56 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:37 kami-: well, it is not well wrapped around, but you could use cl-interpol::inner-reader inside a (with-input-from-string and having bound the needed dynamic variables. Check the source of interpol-reader. 20:00:59 pjb`: thank you. I'm looking at it. 20:01:46 stassats`: I think you should rename slime-disconnect to slime-disconnect-all, and then provide a slime-disconnect which takes a connection as argument. 20:02:02 -!- reiners [n=reiners@mn-71-51-143-183.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"] 20:02:55 oudeis [n=oudeis@84.228.63.80] has joined #lisp 20:03:21 -!- segv_ is now known as segv 20:03:49 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:04:01 -!- letexpx [n=letexpx@ABordeaux-753-1-15-158.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:04:18 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-29.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:04:41 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@213.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:05:48 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:15 what other libs do gzipped/zipped/deflated gray streams besides gzip-stream? 20:08:22 salza2 does it very cleanly, and i can memoize all calls to it to get gzipped hunchentoot pages, but i feel like i'm reinventing something that's even more obvious 20:10:39 borsman [n=quassel@cpe-76-177-217-216.natcky.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:49 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 20:13:25 -!- borsman [n=quassel@cpe-76-177-217-216.natcky.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:17:47 mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns01bbg-142068078172.dhcp-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:17 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:58 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@84.228.63.80] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:25:32 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.133.213] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:26:58 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:27:26 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-179-114-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:39 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-67-102.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:30:38 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 20:34:53 -!- jobf [n=jbf@c80-216-238-151.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["leaving"] 20:41:04 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-29.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:43:50 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-66-138.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:44:51 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 20:47:17 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-29.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:48:48 defclass-star needs a :conc-name so accessors are classname-slotname instead of slotname-of 20:48:50 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@140.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:49:40 let me introduce you to my good friend, DEFSTRUCT. 20:50:37 i knew someone would point that out, but .. clos-weenism is hard to overcome :-P 20:50:47 jmbr [n=jmbr@140.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:52:30 real CLOS-weenies don't mind a little typing. 20:52:59 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-67-102.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:53:01 fusss: why? Do you use multiple inheritance? 20:53:26 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:26 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:53:27 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 20:53:32 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:54:21 -!- Zenton``` [n=user@77.210.190.191] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:54:37 Zenton``` [n=user@77.210.190.191] has joined #lisp 20:55:28 pkhuong: not allot, usually to abstract away shared features as a mixin (is there another use?) but i tend to do allot of :around methods while testing on 3 lisps, and i'm not sure how portable method specialization on structures is 20:55:33 Corun_ [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:56:00 fusss: it is. 20:57:31 it's also faster, on cmucl at least 20:58:23 it's hard for me to go struct at the moment as every library i use gives me classes for an api and expects me to specialize them. 20:58:23 afaiu, "allot" is something different from "a lot" 20:59:04 stassats`: yes its ;-) 20:59:58 defclass-star needs to be removed from existence. 21:02:41 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:03:00 how can I 'reset' the readtable? 21:03:43 (remove installed dispatch chars) 21:03:48 kami-: better not to ever modify it 21:04:08 kami-: AFAIK, you can't. you should have copied it first. 21:04:23 *drewc* could be wrong 21:04:32 fe[nl]ix: I'm fiddling around with cl-interpol to apply ${..} substitution to the contents of a file 21:04:44 and I just don't get it. 21:04:53 kami-: better copy the initial readtable then modify that 21:05:31 kami-: even better idea: don't use cl-interpol :D 21:05:34 You can recover a standard readtable, though. 21:05:46 I think it's (copy-readtable nil) to obtain one, but I'm not absolutely certain. 21:05:49 -!- Ogedei [n=user@ip54508552.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:06:12 -!- younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:06:15 clhs copy-readtable 21:06:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cp_rdt.htm 21:06:26 kami-: (let ((*readtable* (copy-readtable nil))) (cl-interpol:enable-interpol-syntax) ...) 21:06:29 younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 21:07:15 nyef: thank you. (copy-readtable nil) seems to create a clean one. 21:07:37 (copy-readtable (copy-readtable nil) *readtable*) might also work 21:08:34 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 21:09:19 new reader syntaxes wear thin pretty quick. might be better to preprocess your input to s-exps (or train the users) 21:11:44 -!- Corun [n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:12:14 fusss: I have an OpenOffice xml document which is created by a user. I would like to insert some computed values in the middle of the document. I thought it would be easy with cl-interpol, but I'm trying for several hours now and run into different problems. 21:12:46 -!- dizpater [n=dizpater@173-128-255-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:13:28 dizpater [n=dizpater@173-128-255-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:35 fusss: (with-funky-macro (...)) is IMHO a rather clean way... :D 21:13:57 kami-: i think it might be better to do it cxml; interpol is a dump string substituter, and cxml might know more about the document structure. 21:14:23 not that i have a clue about OO DTDs, or much xml for that matter 21:14:41 parse the XML, modify it, and unparse back to XML. You might even be able to do it straight from the event stream, avoiding the need to build a complete in-memory representation of the document. 21:14:44 fusss: but all I want IS a dumb string substitution. It would be absolutely enough. I need the XML really verbatim. No processing needed. 21:15:56 Can someone please explain to me why glCallLists is permitted to accept a sequence of floats as the names of the lists to call when list names are required to be integers? 21:15:59 kami-: COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.STRING:STRING-REPLACE nothing dumber. 21:16:03 kami-: in that case you could just use sed 21:16:06 you will need to think very hard about the dispatch character(s) then, as you replacer could "capture" a similar user string unrelated to your hack 21:16:34 kami-: http://darcs.informatimago.com/public/lisp/common-lisp/string.lisp 21:16:59 kami-: or cl-awk 21:17:01 fusss: yes. But I'm in control of those template files. I can inspect them and try them out before processing them. 21:17:27 what pjb` and fe[nl]ix said 21:17:29 minion: cl-awk 21:17:29 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``cl-awk''. 21:17:54 minion: clawk 21:17:55 clawk: Michael Parker has written a set of tools for regular expression matching, AWK functions, and lexical generator. http://www.cliki.net/clawk 21:18:00 or just cl-ppcre. 21:18:15 anyone know "Kaisyu" before i install his win32 sbcl build? http://cid-ab3d364d1e6a27e7.profile.live.com/ 21:20:32 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:32 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:20:34 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 21:21:01 fusss: If you've got a suitable host machine handy, I'd consider building your own sbcl. 21:21:05 -!- dizpater [n=dizpater@173-128-255-186.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:21:37 nyef: i can setup nightly builds even, i'm not sure how much pain am I in for. 21:22:05 Seemed fairly painless to me. I had cygwin set up, of course, but... 21:23:02 that's the thing, i keep cygwin off my property. GNU `ls` takes up to 3 seconds for me with cygwin. mingw is what I use (but my unix-utils stuff come from a commercial vendor, not GNU tools) 21:23:13 The critical things are to set SBCL_XC_HOST on the host and GNUMAKE on the target. Run make-config.sh on the target, make-host-1.sh on the host, make-target-1.sh on the target, make-host-2.sh on the host, make-target-2.sh on the target, and then make-target-contrib.sh on the target. 21:23:20 btw, I can do some testing on win64 :) 21:23:27 Mingw might work too, but I've never tried it. 21:24:13 Last time I needed to do this I was on a virtualbox, so I ended up just doing the build from the shared folder. 21:24:13 i don't have bash/sh or an xterm, if it demands that 21:24:28 You will need an sh. 21:25:22 nyef: does *old* ksh work? 21:25:34 ok, fetching msys with sh atm; will report on any problems .. 21:25:38 p_l: A Win64 port is unlikely until such time as we have table-based unwind support for non-windows ports, at which point we can try and leverage the same support. 21:25:54 p_l: That I do not know. 21:26:22 at least "ls" on said windows is fast :D 21:26:52 fuss: $ time (ls >/dev/null) => 0.01s real 0.00s user 0.01s system (Windows x64) 21:27:26 fusss must be running Windows 95. 21:28:29 XP actually, which is my favorite OS named after an emoticon 21:28:50 /bin/ls: Windows NT PE format (EXE), executable not stripped AMD64 <--- I didn't expect 64bit /bin/ls 21:29:35 i think my implementation mmaps that harddisk before it does a sequential search. 21:30:38 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:31:21 fusss: reminds me of how Cygwin supposedly does fork() 21:32:54 mejja [n=user@c-a3b3e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:33:02 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["rebooting to do the Windows equivalent of export $PATH=$PATH:/new/dir + ldconfig"] 21:34:00 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-29.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:39:18 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:39:35 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:12 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@85-220-122-60.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:42:30 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:20 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-74-88.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:45:23 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:47 -!- sellout is now known as Guest33450 21:46:40 nothing seems to work any more! 21:46:46 kami- annotated #80754 "doesn't work" at http://paste.lisp.org/+1QB6#1 21:46:56 -!- Guest33450 is now known as sellout 21:47:33 shouldn't that work? I get "no dispatch function defined for #\?" 21:47:55 ugh, lisppaste.el doesn't like new url scheme 21:49:50 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:27 I have another package where I do nothing else than that, and the dispatch function interpol-reader is installed without any problems. 21:50:57 read is done before compile, load, or execute 21:51:14 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 21:51:43 so try #.(enable-interpol-syntax) 21:52:03 kami-: why not just use something like trivial-template? 21:52:10 minion: trivial-template? 21:52:11 trivial-template: Trivial Template is a really really trivial public domain templating hack. http://www.cliki.net/trivial-template 21:53:18 drewc: I promise to look into the other possibilities, but it's becoming a question of honour! :) 21:53:41 nyef: what do I set SBCL_XC_HOST to? the default "sh make.sh" and "sh make-config.sh" tell me "unsupported OS type: windows32" 21:54:21 kami-: not using reader hacks is very honourable ;) 21:54:48 stassats`: where should I put #.(enable-interpol-syntax) ? 21:54:55 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:57 kami-: that said, #. _will_ work. 21:55:03 kami-: in that file 21:56:14 drewc, stassats`: thank you. where can I read more about #. ? I don't find it in the hyperspec (at least with C-c C-d h) 21:56:23 clhs #. 21:56:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 21:56:23 clhs #. 21:56:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 21:56:26 damn 21:56:31 *drewc* wins! 21:56:42 :) 21:57:05 kami-: see also tcr's NAMED-READTABLE extension. 21:57:45 kami-: and C-c C-d # 21:57:49 for reader macros 21:58:08 kami-: http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/darcs/editor-hints/named-readtables/ 21:58:41 drewc, stassats` thank you very much. That solved my problem and I should definitely sleep some hours before continuing. Good night. 22:00:03 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:38 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has left #lisp 22:01:24 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-74-88.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 22:02:44 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 22:03:12 konr1 [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 22:04:05 fusss: You set SBCL_XC_HOST on the host system, not the target system. If you're doing a non-cross build, then win32 should suffice. 22:04:13 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 22:04:26 Err... SBCL_ARCH=win32. 22:05:48 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:05:56 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:57 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 22:07:31 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.143.96.220] has joined #lisp 22:08:57 great, emacs's string-to-number can't do base 32 22:09:18 s/32/36/ 22:09:22 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-74-88.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:09:29 stassats`: you use base 36 ? 22:09:48 fe[nl]ix: i'm adapting to new lisppaste urls 22:14:37 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-3-56.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 22:14:46 *stassats`* ended up using (car (read-from-string (replace-in-string url "\+" "#36r"))) 22:15:31 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:15:41 m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:16:06 hmmm, sbcl or slime is getting less verbose than usual. compiler messages are now going to *inferior-lisp* instead of *slime-repl*. 22:16:19 that's a bug 22:17:53 chessguy [n=chessguy@c-76-124-142-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:11 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:19:01 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:19:45 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:19:57 benny` [n=benny@i577A1149.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:20:02 slime-2009-05-03 sbcl 1.0.22 22:20:28 it's not fixed 22:20:52 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:22:04 meaning? get the latest slime? 22:22:13 no, it's not fixed at all 22:22:49 meaning: fix it 22:22:50 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.143.96.220] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:22:53 oh, neat, Babel does utf-8b 22:23:04 "fixed" as in repaired, or fixed as in "stationary/static"? 22:24:06 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 22:24:07 fixed as in eliminated 22:24:29 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@201.102.108.98] has joined #lisp 22:24:44 oudeis_ [n=oudeis@89-138-10-51.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 22:26:21 -!- konr1 [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:27:56 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@c-76-124-142-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:28:21 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-12-151.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:29:15 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:42 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 22:30:08 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:24 intelligent fasl-recompilation (i.e. annoying restart) seems broken, rm -rf *.fasl did it. 22:30:26 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-205.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:31:17 asdf's around method doesn't work? 22:31:26 (from sbcl's manual) 22:32:39 awwww, it had so many restarts that the recompile one was hidden in --more-- 22:34:32 -!- oudeis_ [n=oudeis@89-138-10-51.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:34:39 minion: tell fuss about asdf-binary-locations 22:34:40 fuss: please see asdf-binary-locations: asdf binary locations is an ASDF extension which organizes your FASLs based on machine type. http://www.cliki.net/asdf-binary-locations 22:35:25 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A04F5.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:36:38 fe[nl]ix: the win32 build of 1.0.22 has more problems than asdf. on errors, you wont be able to return to the repl, it says "requirest pipelining" .. bad coupling between slime and sbcl. 22:38:06 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-3-56.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:38:33 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-208-88.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:58 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:39:58 -!- delqna [n=delqna@p54A36BBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:40:35 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:41:42 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:40 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 22:45:26 -!- tessier [n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com] has left #lisp 22:45:45 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-182-131-168.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:24 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Success] 22:46:25 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 22:47:28 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:50:03 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-5-152.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:51:24 -!- ruediger_ [n=ruediger@62-47-146-20.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:54:00 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:01 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:55:34 heanol_ [n=heanol@83.140.32.143.dyn.rp80.se] has joined #lisp 22:55:56 -!- Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:59:17 from the department of stupid and frequently asked questions, I have LANG=C (locale -a says this machine supports exactly C and POSIX) and my SBCL chooses :ASCII as the external-format for *standard-output*. I'd be thrilled if I could make it choose :latin1 instead. 22:59:17 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:00:31 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@140.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:01:13 make new standard output 23:04:27 piyush [n=piyush@122.169.80.222] has joined #lisp 23:04:27 slashus2 [n=dex@74-141-105-89.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:30 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:05:43 I can't explain my stubborn resistance to that approach, but it does seem to work. 23:06:04 *hefner* hits himself with the stupid stick 23:06:21 seems like it would be reasonable for (setf external-format) to exist 23:06:40 kpreid: heh. you hack fd-streams for that (: 23:07:33 no thanks. unless there's a $5000 offer for it 23:08:10 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 23:08:46 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:29 -!- slashus2 [n=dex@74-141-105-89.dhcp.insightbb.com] has left #lisp 23:14:37 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["BB!"] 23:14:53 hefner: what about (SETF SB-IMPL::*DEFAULT-EXTERNAL-FORMAT* :latin-1) ? 23:15:10 it won't change already created fd stream 23:15:23 Then: LC_CTYPE=en_US.ISO-8859-1 sbcl ? 23:15:35 even if that locale doesn't exist. Does sbcl check it? 23:16:05 doesn't work, but no worries, I've moved on. 23:16:25 -!- mcspiff [n=user@hlfxns01bbg-142068078172.dhcp-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:16:34 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:17:11 *hefner* is testing id3 tag reading across all the files in his ~/music/ and trying to make it tolerant of the ridiculously malformed filenames and tags. 23:17:43 id3 from pcl? 23:17:56 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:18:48 no, last time I tried that, I gave up and wrapped ignore-errors around it. Presently I'm writing some friendly utilities around the id3 functions in libmpg123. 23:21:21 *stassats`* still can't rewrite his tag editing thingy from python to lisp 23:21:36 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-46-58.lns2.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:46 nuntius [i=Daniel@118.37.165.172] has joined #lisp 23:23:14 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:11 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:30:56 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 23:31:39 -!- Zenton``` [n=user@77.210.190.191] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:33:27 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:33:32 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-67-102.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:38:35 -!- jsoft_ is now known as jsoft 23:38:42 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@201.102.108.98] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:39:37 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:41:08 nowhere_man [i=pierre@pthierry.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:48 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-082-146.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:45:59 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:46:42 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 23:47:08 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:48:18 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 23:48:37 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:23 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp