00:02:43 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:12 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:05:54 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-209-30-131-56.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:06:43 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-209-30-131-56.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:22 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-61bd3add7fa7567b] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:07:24 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:08:50 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:09:17 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-64-40.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:11:02 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-209-30-131-56.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:15:08 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-209-30-131-56.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:15:53 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:01 Hello all. 00:17:17 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-221-203.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:09 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-64-40.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 00:21:43 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-222-176.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:24 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-130-242.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:22:39 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-209-30-131-56.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:24:03 -!- dysinger [n=tim@216.243.14.115] has quit [] 00:24:29 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-221-203.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 00:24:46 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-92-149-23.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:53 howdy. 00:27:10 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:27:58 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:29:01 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 00:29:06 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-222-176.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:29:30 Are VALUE-CELL-{REF,SET} related to closure environments or something else? 00:30:06 (Seems half-likely to be something else.) 00:31:16 Hrm. Value cells have widetags. 00:32:37 Indirect value cell? 00:32:52 enodran [n=enodran@208-78-98-174.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:18 Okay, they're for variables that are "both set and closed over". 00:35:22 I guess that falls under "closure environments". 00:37:43 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 00:37:44 dysinger [n=tim@71.216.13.30] has joined #lisp 00:39:44 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:41:16 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:42:55 -!- enodran [n=enodran@208-78-98-174.slicehost.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:46:21 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 00:47:33 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:48:54 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:50:21 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:52:57 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 00:55:27 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:56:26 nyef: right. For when we actually need calue cells ;) 00:56:34 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 00:57:24 And can't just share the closure environment, right? 00:58:01 I'm fairly certain python assumes flat closures in more than a few places. 00:59:45 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-92-149-23.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:03:08 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:03:17 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 01:03:23 -!- maxote [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:07:06 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:24 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:11:06 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@dsl092-045-116.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [] 01:11:54 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 01:16:19 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:20 i must be missing something--if I have a pathname which is directory (i.e. pethname-name returns nil), how can i get the name of the directory? 01:20:48 Have you tried using PATHNAME-DIRECTORY ? 01:20:48 pathname-directory? 01:21:30 my understand is that the result of that is implementation-defined 01:21:37 CLHS glossary: valid pathname directory n. a string, a list of strings, nil, :wild, :unspecific, or some other object defined by the implementation to be a valid directory component. 01:21:55 Yes. Imagine that. 01:22:14 At the same time, it -is- the name of the directory. 01:23:10 ok, so I have the result of calling (directory), and i want to match based on the name of the directory entry (imagine that). can i do that in a conforming program? 01:23:45 No, but you can do so in any reasonable implementation. 01:26:04 well, this is what I do now -> (compose #'pathname #'car #'last #'pathname-directory) -- it works for me. the program runs. but it doesn't look like the obvious way to do it 01:26:28 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-73-151.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["« La POO c'est bien beau, mais en C au moins on va droit au but. »"] 01:26:52 Anyone know which Lisps call validate-superclass when *compiling* defclass or the first defmethod specializing on said class? I know that CCL and SBCL do not, while Lispworks does. 01:29:54 retupmoca` [n=retupmoc@ppp-69-214-2-208.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:09 Qsource: why do you call PATHNAME? 01:32:59 kpreid: incidental. this gets fed into something which wants to call pathname-name 01:33:47 huh...I was thinking that what you want in that case is actually ENOUGH-NAMESTRING. but that returns a namestring, not a pathname. seems like a minor hole in the spec (not that e-n is what you ACTUALLY want) 01:34:25 Qsource: in that case, I recommend cl-fad:pathname-as-file 01:35:11 kpreid: well, really i'm calling (directory) and want to do a regexp match on the filename. in practice, this program already depends on sb-posix, so this is all a moot point, but i was surprised that i couldn't write this part portably 01:35:36 Qsource: just feed all your DIRECTORY results through pathname-as-file and you will be happier 01:35:55 i think i've already effectively reimplemented pathname-as-file ;/ 01:36:09 cl-fad is basically the library that gives you the modern directory-is-a-kind-of-file view on top of cl pathnames 01:36:13 -!- rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:37:27 cool. <3 clbuild 01:37:36 so I think you should use it just for the common concepts, even if it's trivial to do otherwise 01:37:47 Okay, arm port log updated. 01:41:24 NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-25.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:41:47 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:42:26 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@c-71-230-33-184.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:42:39 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:43:03 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:27 -!- retupmoca [n=retupmoc@ppp-69-214-9-199.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:46:37 kpreid: i agree. since clbuild has it, it's painless. on the other hand, i hate dependencies, and if clbuild didn't have it i probably wouldn't have bothered :-/ 01:47:01 bah. dependencies are how you simplify your program 01:47:09 ...and complicate the life of the people using it :) 01:47:21 heh 01:47:24 i wouldn't even admit the former 01:47:42 -!- retupmoca` [n=retupmoc@ppp-69-214-2-208.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:47:42 external dependencies are the cause of 85% of my headaches and problems 01:47:47 all so you can space writing such intricate functions as "symbolicate" 01:47:59 *hefner* grumbles, updated cffi/alexandria/babel earlier 01:48:38 OTOH, i've found common lisp to be completely useless for anything smaller than a "large program", at which point dependencies are inevitable 01:48:51 "cymbaliceight"? 01:49:36 Useless for anything smaller than a "large program"? 01:49:47 Something doesn't seem right about that. 01:49:51 I use lisp for small programs all the times. arguably, I've never written a "large program". 01:50:02 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-39.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:50:03 retupmoca` [n=retupmoc@ppp-69-214-2-208.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:20 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-24-169.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:29 *stassats`* writes a lot of throw-away code 01:50:36 Large programs are grown from small ones. 01:51:05 How large is a "large program", anyway? 01:51:13 -!- kidd2 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:51:35 just the other day I wrote a small program that reads a stream of NES controller inputs, builds a markov chain, plots it with graphviz, then normalizes the probabilities and dumps it back out as nice binary data my C program could consume 01:52:08 ... What on -earth- do you need a probablistic input model like that for? 01:52:24 maybe large project would be a better description. it's a matter of preference, personal style, and being spoiled. i hate having to paste curry and compose macros into everything i want to run as a script. a fatal flaw? no. annoying? very much so 01:52:39 *Qsource* wonders why you needed a C program 01:52:46 automatic emulator exerciser? 01:53:41 *stassats`* lives happily without curry/compose 01:54:37 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-159-181.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:40 *Qsource* can also live without, but not happily :-) 01:55:28 kidd2 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:44 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:10 here is a good reddit post http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8l8ou/ask_proggit_does_anybody_have_experience_with/c09nasi 02:01:14 i have managed to avoid python and ruby for long, i'm oblivious to any good that comes out of them, cl-djula looks neat. 02:01:16 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 02:02:35 *Qsource* like python. it was effectively my introduction to higher-level languages 02:03:45 me too, just not the same python (: 02:03:50 Qsource: heh. i tried 10 years ago or so, iirc, and it felt like a calculator 02:03:59 Heh. 02:04:18 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:32 fusss: 10 years ago was probably a bad time to try python 02:05:01 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:05:12 I thought ten years ago was when Python was cool, and I was ignoring it to play with Scheme. 02:05:58 i think it really matters what you're coming from. coming from scheme, i don't think python ever looked cool 02:06:04 yep, that's around the time ESR was hyping it, and ESR was being hyped. 02:08:27 10 years ago... I was spending way too much time on corewar. 02:08:49 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 02:09:48 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:55 Ruby is nice. Python is bondage and disciplinely but doesn't give you a awesome type system as part of the deal. 02:10:14 i was writing bad C and trying to clone napster with Jeffrey Richter's book on my plastic lawn table 02:10:16 oh well, i haven't luck to compile iolib 02:10:16 however, Ruby is slow 02:10:25 but getting better 02:10:52 stassats`: latest? 02:11:13 i guess 02:11:20 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:11:37 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:11:56 i built it last night on the usual platform; sbcl + x86 linux 02:12:03 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:19 maybe it's ccache or my cflags 02:12:37 External process exited with code 1. Command was: "ccache gcc" ... 02:12:54 are there iolib users? I was thinking about taking another look at it again tonight, but calling select isn't hard and I already have a halfassed solution I could extend instead. 02:13:29 hefner: i looked at it briefly and found that it took longer to read the docs than do it myself 02:13:35 that error message comes from cffi-grovel 02:13:53 well, at least it has docs. :) 02:17:20 doing CC="gcc" CFLAGS="" seems to help 02:17:32 *hefner* hates writing FFI bindings. 02:18:13 that's pretty strange that it doesn't like ccache 02:19:16 i fetched it to avoid writing FFI for epoll for my hunchentoot frankensteinization (f30n) effort. 02:20:48 hefner: Really? Last time I wrote some FFI bindings I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was. 02:21:39 i see, it thinks that "ccache gcc" is the name of the file 02:22:37 nyef: define-alien-routine is the easy one. unwrapping a giant struct with union members, bitfields, and layers upon layers of #defined stuff is the not-so-easy bit. 02:22:51 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Client Quit] 02:22:52 Okay, yeah, I can see that. 02:23:18 especially when you only use it once, to initialize some library, and then don't care about it 02:23:26 yep 02:24:10 i wrapped the ffmpeg file-format guesser by writing that in C and exporting one function that took a c-string argument. (then found out ffmpeg has detect_format built in ;-) 02:24:32 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:25:32 here is another pleasant thing http://vx.netlux.org/lib/vrn00.html :-) 02:26:07 similarly, I try to hide xlib and libjpeg behind nice C wrappers, and presently I'm staring down libasound, but someone seems to have already written a "cl-alsa" which might even work 02:26:47 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.206.120] has joined #lisp 02:27:11 On that front, I have a libsn76489 which provides a really simple interface for a sound generator emulation that backs onto ALSA. 02:27:42 Really, for the simple stuff, ALSA is trivial. 02:28:14 yeah, once you get past the dubious examples and spotty documentation 02:28:43 Shall I package up my own dubious example for you, then? 02:29:50 I think that's a wonderful idea. 02:31:24 http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/dubious-alsasnd-example.tgz is the heart of my alsa stuff. It's also rather obviously hacked from my old oss stuff. 02:31:40 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:34:20 There are some failure modes I haven't sorted out yet, but they mainly involve suspend-to-ram and seem to affect most of the other sound programs on my system (notably not including audacious, which manages to clear up such problems), but it basically works. 02:34:33 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:34:56 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279632405.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:34:57 Oh, and there's also no latency control, but I don't care so long as it's within a few video frames of correct. 02:36:00 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:36:21 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 02:37:25 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:56 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:38:15 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 02:42:35 yoonkn [n=yoonkn@210.108.170.71] has joined #lisp 02:43:17 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 02:44:28 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:40 lagenar [n=lucas@190.178.197.194] has joined #lisp 02:56:40 -!- lagenar [n=lucas@190.178.197.194] has quit ["Saliendo"] 03:00:14 brandelune [n=suzume@pl275.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:01:15 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:02:14 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:02:19 well, it's ugly, but a prologue-insertion pass shaves 5% on tak (compared to the trampoline). 03:02:46 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:58 tseug [n=tseug3@cpe-70-112-21-137.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:24 Hi 03:03:41 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 03:05:39 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-35-216-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:41 Where can I get some basic info on lisp? 03:06:46 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 03:06:50 Other than wikipedia. 03:07:03 minion: tell tseug about pcl 03:07:04 tseug: have a look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 03:07:10 minion: gentle 03:07:10 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 03:07:28 was minion created with lisp? 03:07:31 yes. 03:07:49 minion tell me about lisp 03:08:03 minion: tell me about lisp 03:08:04 tseug: please look at lisp: "Lisp in Small Pieces". This book covers Lisp, Scheme and other related dialects, their interpretation, semantics and compilation. To sum it up in a few figures: 500 pages, 11 chapters, 11 interpreters and 2 compilers. 03:08:07 wow 03:08:10 that's a smart bot 03:08:43 Though that book might not be the place you want to start. Though it's a great book. 03:08:55 pcl is where I shoudl start? 03:08:57 minion: are you a bot? 03:08:58 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 03:09:05 hah. 03:09:20 tseug: what's your background? Are you already a prorammer, in some other language? 03:09:27 minion: tell tseug about sicp 03:09:27 tseug: direct your attention towards sicp: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available gratis from (HTML), (texinfo) and (XHTML, PDF). Accompanying video lectures are available gratis at 03:09:39 That's a true classic. 03:09:39 I know a tiny bit of Python, Perl. And some Java. 03:10:17 I don't know anything about lisp, except that it's often used for AI 03:10:25 PCL was designed for people who know how to program but who know no Lisp. 03:10:37 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 03:10:47 *hefner* thinks SICP is boring, is still waiting for "How to overthrow the government with Common Lisp" 03:10:50 I hear most "AI" is done in C++ or python these days. 03:10:55 SICP is a take on basic computer science through a Scheme (a Lisp dialect) perspective. 03:11:05 If you were interested in AI in particular you migt look at: PAIP 03:11:08 minion: PAIP 03:11:08 PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 03:11:13 But, minion seems a lot smarter than other bots I've seen 03:11:23 pkhuong: I thought it was Java. 03:12:15 *fusss* wins another online argument! 03:12:26 gigamonkey: maybe they replaced the "scripting" part with python instead of java. 03:13:33 minion help 03:13:37 minion: help 03:13:38 There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms". 03:13:38 minion shouldn't recommend LiSP to newbs, imo 03:13:54 tseug: you can also /msg minion 03:14:49 PAIP, fine book that it is, actually put me off buying AIMA for years, which was a terrible shame, because AIMA is a really good book. 03:15:28 [22:15] Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 9 seconds is too many. 03:16:36 yuck. The loop alignment code doesn't play well with fall-through. 03:16:39 hefner: AIMA puts me to sleep. 03:17:33 who's krystof 03:18:10 an op. 03:18:52 AIMA is great 03:18:53 And a SBCL hacker. And a dad. He contains multitudes. 03:19:52 AIMA was badly beyond me the first time I tried to read it, but I suspect I might make a better go of it next time. 03:20:03 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:20 However, the agent model generally doesn't cover one huge important thing: Writing a consistent 'world' model that the agents interact in 03:20:41 that's a lot harder than the agent code, depending on the problem at hand 03:21:22 gigamonkey: he is a dad now? they grow so fast ;-) 03:21:29 all the world is a grid. discrete, markovian, and episodic. 03:21:45 that's the sensor state 03:21:51 not necessarily the world data nature 03:22:01 I won't listen to these lies. 03:22:08 *fusss* awaits another AI nerd vague-vention 03:22:11 especially when you're not talking about spatial worlds 03:22:16 fusss: as far as I know. 03:22:51 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["bye"] 03:25:10 Okay, I'm going to sign off and go to bed before it gets any later. 03:25:15 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 03:25:21 What's the difference between Lisp and Common Lisp? 03:25:47 Lisp is a category of languages. Common Lisp is one specific language within that category 03:26:02 hmm. 03:26:07 and cue the semantics flamefest :-P 03:27:31 Just trying to learn more about Lisp 03:27:54 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-24-169.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 03:28:32 What are some of the types of Lisp? Common and..? 03:29:35 uncommon 03:29:35 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:29:52 Scheme is another lisp 03:30:14 those are afaik the only 2 major lisps out there 03:30:23 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:25 there's Common Lisp, Scheme, the newcomer Clojure, the oddball Newlisp (which was dropped on its head as an infant), and then dozens of forgotten or fringe dialects no one really uses 03:30:42 so Common is the most common? 03:30:48 and lisp scripting languages inside other apps 03:32:25 is lisp and emacs fairly similar? 03:32:30 you could also there's also "university lisp", a random subset of common lisp taught in programming languages courses 03:32:39 oh, I forgot about emacs lisp. 03:33:17 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:23 CL and emacs lisp are similar in that if you know one, you can pick the other up pretty quickly, but different enough that you can't really port code between them 03:35:24 UPPERCASE LISP. usually found in AI books. 03:35:29 heh, nice 03:37:03 I want to make my own bot like 'minion'. But I have no knowledge about bots (I'm guessing they're made with a bunch of "if/than" statements) is there a good "how to make a bot" book that I can find online? 03:37:47 Another problem is, how do I bring the bot into an IRC room? 03:37:54 that's your biggest issue 03:38:06 I'll tell you, provided you promise not to bring it here :) 03:38:06 once you connect inputs & outputs to a "bot", the rest is easy 03:38:12 I promise! 03:38:19 minion: tell tseug about cl-irc 03:38:20 tseug: look at cl-irc: cl-irc is an IRC networking library written in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cl-irc 03:38:36 there's bot examples in there 03:38:41 Thanks 03:40:40 No idea what to do with that file.. but I should learn Lisp first before trying to make a bot for IRC.. 03:40:50 I've never been able to shake the desire to write a chatterbot out of my head. 03:43:24 I'm reading the page that gigamonkey gave me. Can someone explain this quote to me: Perl is also worth learning as "the duct tape of the Internet." 03:43:28 Axioplase [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 03:43:46 Why is Perl the "duct tape of the internet"? 03:46:08 tseug: Mark Watson wrote a "how to write a bot book", around 1993 IIRC. It's in pre-standardized C++; i typed in the examples and none of them ran. Good news is, Watson also wrote various AI books, lately ebooks, and he is a die-hard Lisper. So you might find something of his. 03:47:08 wait, a book on writing books about writing bots? 03:47:18 >< 03:47:20 a book on writing bots 03:47:39 so the book is not in C++, but Lisp? 03:47:59 that's why it didn't run? 03:48:01 none of the examples ran?! 03:48:50 tseug: Practical Artificial Intelligence Programming by Peter Norvig has a chapter on an Eliza chat-bot; take that and read the specs for IRC and the manual for your Lisp's socket programming (most likely Bordeux-threads) 03:49:34 Thanks 03:49:35 tseug: they were for Turbo C++ 3, IIRC, and I only had Borland C++ 4.5; and I wasn't a very good programmer at the time (or even now ;-) 03:49:43 minion: cl-irc 03:49:45 cl-irc: cl-irc is an IRC networking library written in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cl-irc 03:50:11 that should allow you to annoy the channel until Krystof comes back 03:50:26 (with your new bots, not your self ;-) 03:51:58 speaking of AI, I'm impressed that cl-alsa manages to work in the General Problem Solver, apparently to order the steps in configuring ALSA 03:52:13 -!- anekos [n=anekos@pl476.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1: SIGTERM received; exit"] 03:52:19 fusss you mean this book, right: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp 03:52:47 anekos [n=anekos@pl476.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:52:48 tseug: start here, another Watson book that should hold your hand til you can find Paul Graham's ANSI Common Lisp: http://www.markwatson.com/opencontent/lisp_lic.htm 03:53:07 tseug: yes, that one. popularly referred to as "PAIP" 03:53:55 minion: PCL 03:53:56 PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 03:54:03 hefner: GPS for alsa config? shame, wasn't it invented to configure multimillion dollar vax installations? :-P 03:54:43 *fusss* I got your audio card working, also, the data-center is done. 03:55:12 I think GPS dates from the 50s, predating the VAX by decades 03:55:53 oh yeah 03:56:25 there was an AI technique invented to configure machines for DEC 03:57:23 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.206.120] has quit ["leaving"] 03:57:48 The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087EC54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:01 tseug: life will be a whole lot easier if you learned some systems programming on the side as well. specially sockets. and speaking of which, the Watson book i just linked to has a chapter on socket programming :-) 04:01:20 nite 04:01:23 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 04:02:03 slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-136-153.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 04:02:20 hi everybody! 04:02:25 good night 04:02:49 whats the difference between defvar and setq ? 04:03:10 one introduces a special variable, the other sets the value of an existing special (respectively). 04:03:26 jlf [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:52 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:55 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:04:03 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:04:33 -!- tsuru` [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:04:43 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:56 but with both you can create variables and start them with a value, doest it? 04:05:18 no. setq only sets the value of a variable (special or not, actually). 04:05:44 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E43E9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:51 pkhuong, ok, thanks man! 04:06:03 Using SETQ on a variable that hasn't previously been introduced is an error; the consequences are implementation dependent. 04:07:13 it's a very convenient error at the toplevel; having to type defparameter all the time is a drag. 04:07:54 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 04:10:49 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:51 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E43C49.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:10:55 in case I haven't said anything nice about slime lately, the current(ish) state of its macroexpansion capabilities are very cool 04:12:30 to balance the karma, I'll say that the currentish state of slime doesn't support xemacs so well 04:12:50 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.158] has joined #lisp 04:13:10 I gave up using xemacs because slime never worked great on it (even in the 2004-2005 timeframe) 04:13:14 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BDEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:21:42 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-60-75.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:23:55 *Fare* is looking for pre-alpha testers / advisers for the new xcvb 04:24:17 to discuss what the user interface of it should look like 04:25:26 -!- Corun [n=Corun@94-194-29-31.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving..."] 04:25:34 Wheee! I might learn enough TeX to save my book from being typeset in Word! 04:26:12 -!- erk [n=MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:26:28 gigamonkey, no extension to cl-typesetting? 04:26:40 Fare: Sadly, I don't have time for that. 04:26:59 erk [n=MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 04:27:08 or generating of TeX from DefDoc or some such 04:27:19 (I wouldn't be against a TeX backend to Exscribe, either) 04:27:34 Well, I've got a TeX backend for my own Markup thingy. 04:27:50 (directory) doesn't seem to be returning symlinks. is that intentional? 04:27:51 I just need to figure out exactly what TeX I need to produce to generate camera-ready output. 04:28:13 Qsource: (directory) is resolving them to what they point to, because it hates you. 04:28:34 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:28:43 hefner: ugh. is there something that doesn't hate me? 04:28:50 gigamonkey, use pdflatex if you can 04:29:12 I'm looking at Xetex since it can easily handle arbitrary fonts and UTF-8 encoded docs. 04:29:18 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 04:29:35 relevant to the conversation above--in CL, i constantly have to implement slightly different versions of very common functions, which would be extremely annoying if i was trying to write many standalone programs instead of a large/integrated application 04:30:16 Qsource, welcome to my world 04:30:30 Qsource, use PLT scheme instead :-/ 04:30:31 practice makes perfect ;) 04:31:04 Qsource: can you give an example? 04:31:37 Fare: why do you recomend pdflatex? 04:32:19 over the dvi variants? because it's resolution independent 04:32:41 so you won't get ugly things with mismatched resolution like Let-Over-Lambda 04:33:02 UnwashedMeme1 [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:09 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:33:13 m4thias` [n=user@75.84-48-87.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 04:33:18 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E43E9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:56 hefner: an example of what? i have many generic functions and macros that i like using, and pasing or loading them into scripts make it hard(er) to write those "scripts". i'm specifically comparing this experience to python, which is very convenient for small/medium-ish programs and cumbersome for larger ones. CL great for larger ones and cumbersome for smaller ones. 04:33:59 unless of course you actually control the print process down to the final stage and know what resolution the printer is 04:34:08 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.158] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:34:13 (at the scaling that is actually used for the text) 04:34:15 Ah. So it looks like XeteX is built on top of pdftex (and generates PDF directly). I'm guessing maybe pdflatex is also built on top of pdftex 04:34:21 *pasting 04:34:31 Qsource: I was assuming there was a better reason you had to write different versions aside from a lack of coordination 04:34:33 *gigamonkey* is lost in a maze of twisty TeX-like-things all different. 04:35:38 hefner: well, apparently now i have to write my own listdir. not the end of the world--it's already written and working--but it makes it that much harder to write a script-ish program 04:35:45 I don't really write "scripts", although I write a lot of throwaway stuff that's run only once or occasionally, and in those cases I don't mind having to dig around the disk for a few minutes to scrape together various little utility functions 04:35:50 minion: tell Qsource about cl-fad 04:35:51 Qsource: please look at cl-fad: CL-FAD is a portable pathname library based on code from Peter Seibel's book Practical Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cl-fad 04:36:09 Qsource: don't know if that will solve your problem but it may. 04:36:59 Qsource: if you're using SBCL (or CMUCL, as I recall), directory takes a :resolve-symlinks argument you can provide as nil. 04:37:21 but yeah, CL is not ideal for unix scripting things without some additional libraries (and I'm not convinced the ideal such libraries exist) 04:37:25 gigamonkey: well, there's no problem per se :-). about an hour ago i made a comment that I find CL very difficult to use for small programs (aka "scripts"), as opposed to larger or integrated applications 04:37:43 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-111.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:38:19 Qsource: Maybe you're simply using the wrong tool. I find perl to be ideal there, but I'm somewhat biased :) 04:38:36 I've come to think that scripts, in the sense of something self contained and immediately runnable, is premature optimization if I'm only going to run it twice anyway. :) 04:39:06 Qsource: the trick of writing "scripts" in CL is that you really want to write them as programs (functions) that you invoke from within your long-running CL session. 04:39:17 Once CL is your shell, writing scripts is easy. ;-) 04:40:13 Fare: ah, so at least as of July of last year pdfTeX and pdfLaTeX had microtypography features not in XeTeX and XeLaTeX but the X*X ones had much easier ways of dealing with fonts. 04:40:50 I don't know much about Xe*TeX 04:40:58 that's after my time 04:41:16 for all I know, Xe*TeX might have a pdf backend, too. 04:41:54 just don't use the DVI backend unless you know exactly what transforms happen between your fixed-resolution document and the printer. 04:43:08 Fare: Okay. Good to know. Thanks. 04:43:48 as for the rest... the architecture of TeX was modern in the 1960's. Enough said. 04:43:49 yeah!!! lisp is very cool!!! it says numbers!!! xP 04:44:05 slackaholic, only if you're an English speaker. 04:44:26 fare hehehe 04:44:42 I think the culprit is in an office next to mine 04:45:25 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:47 btw, if anyone has a good solution for replacing shell scripting with lisp or scheme, I'm all ears. 04:46:03 scsh looks like it might have been it, but looks unmaintained, 32-bit only, etc. 04:46:12 *hefner* is not sure what constitutes a good solution 04:46:25 gigamonkey: yes, if CL is my shell, then my macros already exist. i've been trying to get away from dependencies on my environment. it's difficult to get help from coworkers--even on trivial issues--when there are so many special requirements about _my_ environment. i already have that problem. 04:47:12 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.206.120] has joined #lisp 04:47:58 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.158] has joined #lisp 04:48:00 -!- m4thias [n=user@75.84-48-87.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:48:02 hefner, anything that helps me rm -rf /usr/*/{perl,python,ruby,tcl}* is fine 04:48:23 OMFG. ,sayoonara killed off my *slime-scratch* without asking? Hate, hate, hate. 04:48:49 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:48:56 hefner: indeed. 04:49:13 This is probably going to turn out to be something silly that I am doing, I have a string parameter that should match the defvar'd name for something that was just created by loading a file. How to use that string to get a handle to the defvar'd thing. find-symbol is returning nil, and intern creates a symbol that doesn't map to the thing. 04:49:17 -!- |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E43E9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:49:43 aja: use a hash table. 04:50:30 Fade: you can't use PLT Scheme for that? =p 04:50:30 Fare: isn't there a thing in the CLISP docs about using it as a shell? 04:50:36 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-161-71.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:37 Fare, rather. 04:50:40 pkhuong: I don't see how that answer relates to my problem. Can you elaborate? 04:50:41 *hefner* kicks xchat 04:52:52 For example, i have a function (names simplified) similar to the following (defun foo (file problem)). file would be a lisp file that can be loaded within the function that contains a number of problem definitions (instances of a clos type). problem is a string corresponding to the name of one of those problem definitions. How would I access the problem definition I'm interested in after the file is loaded? 04:53:05 gigamonkey, that clisp shell thing is ridiculous. Mostly unusable. 04:53:32 hefner, maybe. I'm hoping indeed that PLT Scheme will be my uncommon lisp 04:53:33 aja: don't use the package system as a dictionary. If you want to map from user-provided input to data, use your own data structure. Hash tables are a nice built-in dictionary-type data structure. 04:53:42 sick of fighting the system w/ CL 04:53:54 -!- NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-25.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 04:54:03 gcv [n=gcv@67.97.51.195] has joined #lisp 04:55:03 pkhuong: In a perfect world, that would probably be a great way to go. Unfortunately, I am constrained to use another's data structure. If what I am imagining is impossible, I'll obviously abandon the idea, but a rewrite of the file I am accessing is not possible. 04:56:08 Fare: yeah, I've never used it--just knew it was in the docs. 04:56:49 pkhuong: But thanks, I see your point. 04:57:05 aja: I don't see how that defun could be legal CL. 04:57:53 I mean, if you can live with being stuck w/ clisp-specific things, why not pick a lisp that has everything and a real module system and an implementation that's not dog slow? 04:58:16 pkhuong: Hrmm? Oh ....no, it's not legal, sorry. Was interleaving lisp syntax with my conversation. 04:58:29 pkhuong: (defun test-dtl (&optional 04:58:29 (file #p"restaurant-multivalued.lisp") 04:58:33 (problem "*restaurant-multivalued-problem*"))...) 04:59:13 Bah. Sorry, all. Bumped the middle-click in the wrong window. 05:02:32 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:03:27 pkhuong: You know what? In retrospect, you're perfectly right. Going to modify the code in the provided class to provide some standard symbols and explain why if it comes up. 05:05:37 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:08:20 -!- kidd2 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:08:55 kidd2 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:35 so... thanks for the help guys! 05:10:36 incredible. audio, from my lisp process. I've regained the abilities I had in 1999 hacking in C++. 05:10:41 good night ! 05:12:03 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-136-153.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:15:06 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:15:09 -!- dysinger [n=tim@71.216.13.30] has quit [] 05:17:40 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:19:08 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-6d88fe8a98f72e9c] has joined #lisp 05:21:59 Good morning. 05:22:52 morning beach 05:23:13 good morning to you too, beach :) 05:26:23 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-141-8.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 05:29:19 Morning beach. 05:29:56 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:30:23 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-130-18.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:43 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:31:01 Krystof: thanks for the pointer to XeTeX, it solves several problems I had. 05:31:06 excellent 05:31:24 Now for the fight with Apress. ;-) 05:31:36 can't help you there 05:31:40 Yeah. 05:32:03 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-195-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:33:01 how about "my computer-literate friends won't buy this book if it has Word's hurt-my-eyes non-treatment of ligatures"? 05:33:15 Yeah. 05:33:49 Actually my lead off argument is, I'll be too mortified to send a copy to Donald Knuth. 05:34:26 offer to add some screenshots as a compromise; that's sure to win their hearts. 05:34:46 gigamonkey: APress isn't already latex-friendly? 05:35:08 aja: Well, I haven't presented it to them that way yet. 05:35:50 gigamonkey: Ah. Recognizeably laid-out using TeX is actually starting to become one of my criteria for judging technical books. 05:35:55 I asked if it was at all possible that they could hire a composititor who uses InDesign (since it at least has Knuth's linebreaking algorithm.) 05:36:18 They came back and said, "Great idea but not possible because we're just going to use Word." 05:36:28 ugh 05:37:05 That's terrible! 05:37:14 I said it this afternoon (my time) but in case any of you weren't here, if there any TeX-competent folks out there who'd like to help me out, feel free to get in touch. 05:37:24 gigamonkey: It's hard to even come up with a coherent response to that. It's like hearing someone say "I pulled out his brain and took a bite." I mean, where do you take the conversation then? 05:37:34 My needs are actually incredibly simple but I just don't have a ton of time to wade through figuring things out. 05:37:51 aja: "So are you smarter now?" 05:38:59 gigamonkey: I might have some time in June. Will ping if so. 05:39:01 -!- gcv [n=gcv@67.97.51.195] has quit [] 05:39:09 gigamonkey: Heh. 05:39:20 aja: Right on. peter@gigamonkeys.com. 05:40:05 gigamonkey: Okey dokes. Full disclosure; I use LaTeX a lot, but am entirely self-taught, so there are probably huge gaps in my knowlege that I'm completely unaware of. 05:40:36 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.158] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:41:45 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 05:43:48 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:53:05 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:54:13 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:29 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 06:02:52 hefner: audio? 06:03:16 semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 06:04:08 a pressure wave conducted through the air which stimulates the eardrum. 06:07:09 I'd be a lot happier of these guys had bothered to write any manpages while they were unilaterally redefining linux audio 06:07:13 tessier [n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com] has joined #lisp 06:07:47 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.206.120] has quit ["leaving"] 06:08:18 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.206.120] has joined #lisp 06:08:40 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:12:34 -!- tessier [n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com] has left #lisp 06:12:47 dys` [n=andreas@p5B313E40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:23 -!- cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-55-73.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:18:33 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:18:45 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B3156D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:19:15 -!- The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087EC54.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:26:54 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["off"] 06:30:10 *hefner* gets all mixed up between alien and cffi 06:30:30 mmmm...nconcy goodness 06:31:21 I looked all around for :out arguments in the CFFI manual just to realize I was thinking of alien. 06:32:23 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:32:39 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:11 has anyone written a macro to create something similar to erlang's pattern matching with desctructuring-bind? i.e. have multiple matching clauses/form pairs to try instead of throwing an error 06:39:49 lke destructuring-bind's and cond's love child 06:41:35 there's a plethora of pattern matching macros floating around. I'm sure google or cliki know about them. 06:49:15 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 06:49:21 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 06:51:04 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-251.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 06:51:23 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-11835.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 06:54:08 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.166.58] has joined #lisp 06:59:19 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-141-8.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 07:01:36 ejs [n=eugen@215-203-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:25 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:07:16 psheldr [n=user@217.13.173.44] has joined #lisp 07:09:12 -!- holycow [n=new@64.151.208.1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:12:42 splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:12:44 morning 07:13:16 *splittist* finds the supa sekrit code to make his keyboard work properly 07:14:45 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:19:33 Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:21:31 Harag pasted "ASDF:COMPILE error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80590 07:22:12 can anybody tell me what the offending source file is from all that (see paste) 07:23:37 I did a clean install using clbuild on a clean ubuntu box and I get this error when I (require hunchentoot) 07:24:36 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 07:26:42 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:27:58 <_3b> Harag: any sign of what it compiled or loaded last before that error? 07:29:53 erm let me check 07:31:18 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-3-246.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:32:16 last thing it wrote was chunga/output.fasl 07:32:29 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181129202.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:34:14 psheldr` [n=user@217.13.173.22] has joined #lisp 07:35:08 sorry that is not correct I was trying to roll back to older source 07:36:03 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 07:37:41 <_3b> looks liek bordeaux-threads has a file names sbcl, might check that 07:37:45 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:37:49 thanx 07:38:38 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:39:01 I found a full set of older code that work another box ..deleted *.fasl ...recompiling sbcl and then will try again 07:40:10 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.206.120] has quit ["leaving"] 07:40:18 eish the older code compiles 07:40:50 was going to have a heart attack I have a demo in 3 hours time 07:42:14 ejs1 [n=eugen@215-203-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:56 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@215-203-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:43:41 ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has joined #lisp 07:46:29 Harag: you should get one of those "Works on my machine" stickers :) 07:46:53 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-60-218.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:47:31 lol 07:47:39 not all is well yet 07:47:43 :( 07:47:47 -!- psheldr [n=user@217.13.173.44] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:48:00 hunchentoot works but some of the other packages not 07:48:44 I have a little script that I run to do the whole install from scratch and it has worked for me for a year now... 07:49:17 but i suppose clbuild going for the bleeding edge stuff has finally caught up with me 07:52:25 Good morning. 07:53:25 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:53:55 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 07:55:24 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:57:52 -!- dys` is now known as dys 08:00:32 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 08:02:01 nenorbot 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[i=pie@118-168-239-141.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 08:22:15 'are _you_ my mommy?' asked the locative 08:22:27 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-168-239-141.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:35 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 08:23:36 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:27:36 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 08:28:39 -!- semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 08:38:08 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 08:41:43 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:32 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-11835.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:45:35 konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 08:52:45 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-6d88fe8a98f72e9c] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:53:58 -!- Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:03:26 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.158] has joined #lisp 09:07:41 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:09:59 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.0.104] has joined #lisp 09:10:49 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:13:35 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:14:58 -!- fullets_ [n=fullets@202-180-72-93.callplus.net.nz] has quit [] 09:15:54 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:17:54 rolly1975 [n=rory@193.108.78.132] has joined #lisp 09:19:06 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:21:39 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 09:22:07 Cool, QUOTE can be defined via a macro+lambda/let/cond 09:22:18 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:22:32 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 09:26:09 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 09:27:56 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:28:32 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:28:41 Quadrescence: AFAIK, no, it cannot. 09:29:55 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.0.104] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:30:19 Quadrescence: unless you mean meta-linguistically, of course, since you've got lambda, you can implement lisp again. 09:30:27 pjb: Here is a scheme-version: http://pastebin.com/d6ffc7aee 09:31:07 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.158] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:31:33 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-071c86ad2defd182] has joined #lisp 09:31:40 Scheme quote is defined much differently than lisp quote. 09:32:11 (eq '#1=(a b c) '#1#) in CL, not so in scheme. 09:32:11 Really? I wasn't aware. 09:33:30 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 09:34:34 Scheme tries very hard to separate in the times (read-, macroexpansion-, compilation-, run-), by defining different environment, and assuming nothing accross these times be EQ. On the other hand, CL allow (and even require in the case of read-time) some fusion. In an interactive environment, you may have all the times collapsed, and therefore the same (EQ) lisp object can be processed by all time. 09:35:15 s/different environment/different environments/ 09:35:29 I am unsure what EQ has to do with QUOTE really. 09:35:57 In CL, quote is defined to return the very same object, not to build a new one similar to the original. 09:36:13 Ah, I see. 09:36:28 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.203.230] has joined #lisp 09:36:37 Of course, this cannot be _checked_ across a compile-file/load, but conceptually, that's it. See also DEFCONSTANT. 09:36:52 And LOAD-TIME-VALUE. 09:41:40 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [] 09:44:21 pjb: except that the compiler is allowed to coalesce, so that (eq "foo" "foo") in unspecified 09:45:03 ditto for (eq '(foo) '(foo)) of course 09:45:25 file compiler 09:45:32 yes 09:45:38 Yes, of course, but this doesn't demonstrate the effect of QUOTE, but that of the reader and compiler. 09:45:43 s/reader and// 09:47:59 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 09:51:02 Xof: i hope my directory replacement didn't cause shudders 09:51:48 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:56 also, have you had time to take a look at the last hash-table patch which includes :hash-function in addition to D-H-T-T 09:52:00 no 09:52:01 ? 09:52:10 to both? 09:52:11 (and I won't before... about a fortnight. So don't wait on me) 09:53:16 ok. i think it should be fine: define-hash-table-test defines new default hash functions, overridable by :hash-function. unknown test functions can also be used with an explicit :hash-function 09:53:27 I read your description, which seemed sane 09:53:39 -!- jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:53:47 if you want review, I'd suggest pkhuong 09:54:37 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@novelletto.bio.uniroma2.it] has joined #lisp 09:54:54 hello 09:56:33 hello fe[nl]ix 09:56:39 hi beach 09:56:40 well, i just committed it, so... 10:08:28 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 10:08:34 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:11:02 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:15:24 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 10:16:55 now I wish this machine had a midi port. I could try some realtime synthesis. 10:17:20 (a midi input, that is) 10:19:33 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EC54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:10 There are RS-232 <-> midi adapters. Also USB <-> midi... 10:21:05 realtime synthesis with CL? 10:22:47 sure. it's more than fast enough, provided I don't get screwed by the gc (or accept irritatingly high latency) 10:23:46 anyway, I don't dare disconnect my usb<->midi gizmo from the windows box, because I have to do the add new hardware dance every time I do, and it's a little spooky. 10:23:51 Hmmm.. that's very interesting. I have been trying to do something with midi and CL, but I kept getting screwed by the GC 10:24:05 yeah, but you took a less than sane approach 10:24:14 I did?+ 10:24:19 -+ 10:24:24 schme: Did you try common lisp music? 10:24:38 I'm curious whether it's got the timing issues solved somehow. 10:24:41 schme: you were using jack, yes? 10:24:46 antoszka: common music has been switchjed over to scheme + c++ for RT 10:24:59 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 10:25:10 schme: Ah. 10:25:31 hefner: No, that was something different. That was for actually wanting to produce noise and send it to jackd. Midi I did with just the /dev/midi 10:25:47 anyway, I don't want to do realtime synthesis, it'd just be a logical way to plug together pieces I have lying around. 10:26:07 antoszka: as of 3.0 or some such. 10:26:14 mhm 10:26:17 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:26:52 midi seems an odd thing to use for synthesis anyway :) I'm very interested in the RT aspects though. Every now and then I kept getting latencies going up to 6-7ms or so 10:27:05 I guess my code was broken ,) 10:27:22 grararg friggin qwerty 10:27:40 6-7ms sounds good to me :) 10:28:18 excellent. 10:29:03 ok this keyboard needsto get tossed away 10:31:33 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181129202.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:36:24 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-56-237.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:40:59 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:32 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-071c86ad2defd182] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:46:50 konr1 [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 10:47:22 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.0.104] has joined #lisp 10:50:07 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 10:51:54 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:58:33 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181129202.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:02:04 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 11:02:53 -!- konr [n=konrad@201.82.132.33] has quit [Success] 11:04:28 maxote [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 11:08:25 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [] 11:11:47 hello 11:12:22 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-111.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:12:31 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-111.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:12:47 is there of way of specialising a generic function on the content of a slot of an argument? 11:13:18 some kind of eql specialiser 11:15:59 crod [n=cmell@x250009.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:16:41 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p3017-ipngn601marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:23:38 kami-: yes: (define-slot-method m ((self slot )...) (do-something-specific)) 11:23:50 kami-: now you just (defmacro define-slot-method ...) 11:24:09 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 11:25:58 pjb: thanks, should I be able to find define-slot-method in the hyperspec? 11:26:53 No. You should be able to define it yourself, using defmacro. 11:27:29 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@novelletto.bio.uniroma2.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 11:27:30 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:28:09 pjb: oh. now I understand. 11:29:15 pjb: effectively, I define a generic function which takes the instance and the slot as arguments? 11:29:52 pjb: and hide the 'unpacking' of the slot? 11:30:29 kami-: well, that could be indeed a good implementation strategy. I had in mind implementing the dispatching ourselves, but we can rely on generic functions. 11:30:41 You've got a good idea. 11:31:10 pjb: thanks. that'd be my first good idea since starting to learn CL. :) 11:31:11 (defmethod foo ((bar bar)) (foo-using-quux bar (slot-value bar 'quux))) 11:31:49 Yes, and put the body of define-slot-method into foo-using-quux. 11:32:02 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:33:36 pjb, nikodemus: thank you. 11:36:12 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 11:36:46 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:38:20 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.206.120] has joined #lisp 11:44:02 buggarage [n=user@xdsl-87-78-100-36.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:44:32 plutonas` [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 11:44:59 -!- plutonas` [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:51:02 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has joined #lisp 11:54:59 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:55:12 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 11:57:24 jdz_ [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 12:06:00 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:13:24 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:25 -!- crod [n=cmell@x250009.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:14:28 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:20:40 Corun [n=Corun@94-194-29-31.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:20:42 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 12:22:01 c|mell [n=cmell@y192027.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:28:32 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6EA08.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:46 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:00 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 12:32:20 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:33:57 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:34:22 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:34:51 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:34:57 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:36:17 danlei [n=user@pD9E2F8D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:47 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 12:37:53 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.0.104] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:38:58 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:47 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 12:42:31 -!- pjb [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:44:25 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:46:23 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6EA08.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 12:46:47 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:54 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@y192027.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:49:29 c|mell [n=cmell@p18253-ipngn601marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:50:33 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:12 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.9.216] has joined #lisp 12:59:40 WormBe [n=WormBe@adsl99-6.kln.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 13:00:20 How can I check if the user input is a certain character like "W" for example? 13:00:36 novaburst [i=nova@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has joined #lisp 13:01:20 WormBe: (eql input #\W) 13:02:03 thanks 13:03:26 tsuru` [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:19 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-64-40.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:05:01 -!- jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has left #lisp 13:05:04 coderdad [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has joined #lisp 13:05:21 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:05:22 coderdad_ [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has joined #lisp 13:05:34 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:39 younder [n=jpthing@084202159110.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 13:10:19 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-64-40.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 13:11:21 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-143-242.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:11:30 crod [n=cmell@p29047-ipngn401marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:12:27 Ragnaroek [i=54a65f74@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1d23ffbd6a62ac57] has joined #lisp 13:13:42 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p18253-ipngn601marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:14:13 why is there not a dynamic closure in CL? 13:14:54 there is no what? 13:15:46 Ragnaroek: it doesn't support blue L2 southports 13:16:28 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-64-40.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:16:59 Ragnaroek pasted "dynamic closure" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80596 13:17:36 I would have assumed that the funcall prints 2, not 1 13:17:44 spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@117.192.3.115] has joined #lisp 13:18:03 why? 13:19:46 no, as I think about it the 1 is perfectly right 13:19:47 Ragnaroek: the symbol *x* is implicitly declared a special variable by defparameter 13:20:01 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 13:20:10 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2E99D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:18 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-64-40.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 13:25:39 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 13:25:45 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 13:26:01 Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-22-241.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:31:31 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:32:02 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279632405.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 13:32:35 is there an inbuilt function that counts the elements with the same value inside a list? 13:32:57 clhs count 13:32:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_countc.htm 13:33:02 what do you mean by "same value"? some specific one? or any duplicates? 13:33:27 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.9.216] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:33:46 i have a list that has for example 4 W symbols and 4 B symbols and I want to check that the user indeed specified 4 of each one 13:34:27 COUNT will do your job then 13:35:35 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:35:54 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2F8D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 13:37:59 -!- spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@117.192.3.115] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:39:00 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 13:39:03 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.9.170] has joined #lisp 13:40:23 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 13:42:11 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 13:42:56 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-141-8.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:44:05 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 13:48:53 -!- jdz_ [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 13:49:34 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 13:50:40 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 13:54:58 should free specials shadow symbol macros? 13:54:58 *ehu`* assumes yes 13:55:16 rickardg [n=user@c-077671d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:55:51 What's a "free" special? 13:56:17 one which doesn't have a corresponding binding in the block in which it is declared special. 13:56:19 ie 13:56:28 (let ((y 0)) (declare (special x)) ...) 13:56:34 makes X a free special 13:57:00 at least, that's the term I found in the CLHS 13:57:08 I believe you. 13:57:19 And why do you think this would shadow a symbol macro? 13:58:13 well, as far as I understand, the variable in the following code shadows the symbol macro; by extension, I would expect it to work on "free specials" too. 13:58:36 (symbol-macrolet ((x b)) (let ((x 0)) ...)) 13:58:58 where b may be a variable defined elsewhere (in the lexical scope0 13:59:01 ) 13:59:06 <_3b> a new binding would shadow the enclosing one, but declaring a symbol-macrolet to be special sounds invalid 13:59:48 -!- metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [""Nichts mehr.""] 14:00:01 *_3b* isn't sure if the 'signals an error' in the symbol-macrolet page applies just to the declarations of the symbol-macrolet form or any enclosed declarations 14:00:52 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.9.170] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:01:28 I think that only applies to the declarations in its own declaration forms. 14:02:03 because it says "exactly the same /declarations/ are allowed as for LET" 14:02:05 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:02:29 <_3b> that's the way i read it too, but not sure there is any justification to say that it is valid anywhere else 14:03:29 I interpret (let ((x 0)) (declare (special x)) (symbol-macrolet ((x b)) (locally (declare (special x)) x))))) 14:04:07 to mean "within this LOCALLY form, retrieve the value of X from the dynamic environment instead of the lexical one" 14:04:19 which means it will never know there's a symbol macro in the lexical environment. 14:04:32 because it's not looking at it. 14:05:01 <_3b> sbcl seems to have no objection to it 14:05:05 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279632405.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:05:35 well, that's good enough for me :-) 14:05:45 ok. 14:05:54 then I guess I have my answer. 14:06:12 davazp [n=user@79.153.148.56] has joined #lisp 14:07:14 it should shadow it indeed. 14:07:22 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-184-204-125.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:13 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 14:08:57 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:10:38 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:10:48 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:12:37 dl [n=user@dhcp39.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 14:14:32 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:14:51 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:15:40 Athas`` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:16:40 is there any function that swaps the elements of a list based on their index? 14:17:17 WormBe: sort with some additional indicator function? 14:18:01 i just want to swap 2 particular elements 14:18:24 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:18:59 you could do that with rotatef and nth, but probably shouldn't 14:19:01 WormBe: (rotatef (nth index1 list) (nth index2 list)) 14:19:44 caring about indices is often an indication that you should not be using lists 14:20:00 what should i be using instead? 14:20:06 a vector, probably. 14:20:06 arrays? 14:20:08 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 14:21:04 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-35-216-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:21:44 WormBe: how many dimensions are there in the list you're keeping? 14:21:51 if it's 1, then you need vectors. 14:22:01 buggarag` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-72-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:22:03 it is 1 14:22:57 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:23:10 -!- jlf [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:23:46 vzdor [n=user@mail.kirsan.md] has joined #lisp 14:24:31 -!- vzdor [n=user@mail.kirsan.md] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:26:10 shmho` [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 14:29:28 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:31:57 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:46 -!- buggarage [n=user@xdsl-87-78-100-36.netcologne.de] has quit [Success] 14:38:16 -!- younder [n=jpthing@084202159110.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 14:40:06 Vendaval [n=vendaval@201.163.156.220] has joined #lisp 14:41:19 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16AADC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:41:21 jlf [n=user@adsl-99-137-140-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:51 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:57 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:43:35 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:46:42 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:08 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 14:54:48 Anthony_nd [n=Antoine@222.253.97.228] has joined #lisp 14:56:13 -!- Vendaval [n=vendaval@201.163.156.220] has left #lisp 14:56:22 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has left #lisp 14:56:53 hello, i'm a beginner in Lisp. Now i want a textbox to display something but i don't know how to call it in McCLIM? Please help me! 14:57:44 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-111.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:58:01 Anthony_nd: You can just use format on an application pane. No text box is needed. 15:01:43 good morning, i have a package called :com.mydomain.myproject-mycomponent and i've specified (:nicknames :mycomponent) in the defpackage form. my prompt is MYPROJECT-MYCOMPONENT> though. can i set it to MYCOMPONENT> only? i'm using sbcl+slime. 15:02:31 i suppose s/-/./ in the package name would do it but i'm wondering if that's the usual practice 15:05:03 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181129202.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:05:15 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181129202.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:06:51 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-56-237.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:07:43 beach: Thank you alot. 15:07:51 No problem. 15:10:41 -!- Anthony_nd [n=Antoine@222.253.97.228] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:12:04 -!- davazp [n=user@79.153.148.56] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:12:06 -!- crod [n=cmell@p29047-ipngn401marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:12:19 c|mell [n=cmell@p29047-ipngn401marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:12:30 -!- novaburst [i=nova@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has quit ["leaving"] 15:14:01 Seen LiamH? 15:14:08 no 15:14:39 Good, now I can bad mouth GSLL with impunity. 15:14:52 FUKTW8sLun 15:15:05 Heh, I'll have to change that password. 15:15:18 oh, I thought you were badmouthing GSLL 15:15:42 No, I have focus follows pointer, but unfortunately, I don't have focus follows eyeball. 15:16:03 ooh, I would really like focus follows eyeball 15:16:52 Yeah, I've wanted that for a long time. Did you have any thoughts on my response about NUMBER-EQUAL or was it too rambling? 15:17:22 I was a little confused by it. 15:18:02 Ah, so too rambling. 15:18:25 I wanted to think about it more, but haven't gotten back to it yet. 15:19:38 Okay, I have a big rewrite that I'm working with right now on the unit testing of my linear algebra stuff. I'll try to collect my thoughts better. 15:19:55 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:20:12 Will you be on #lisp this weekend? I'll have a chance to look at it then. 15:21:19 letexpx [n=letexpx@cbl33-1-82-228-229-180.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:02 Probably on Friday night, maybe on Saturday night, that's it. 15:24:21 bdowning_ [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:24 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:14 Well when I see you on I'll let you know my thoughts. 15:26:58 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 15:27:25 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl275.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 15:28:11 -!- aunwork_ [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:28:18 Sounds good. I think I'll be more coherent this time. I've been reworking the predicates based on the observations you and your colleague had, trying to get something that fits your uses and my uses. I'm finding, though, that I still haven't quite defined my uses well. Writing the unit testing for my linear algebra stuff has been immensely educational. 15:29:17 -!- nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:30:05 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:30:38 OK. Part of the problem is that I'm not understanding your usage. I think that our applications are close enough we ought to be wanting the same usage, so I feel like I'm missing something. I do think that upgrading everything to (complex double-float) should provide a consistent basis for numerical comparison. 15:30:44 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:59 G'morning all. 15:32:03 Zenton [n=user@212.166.192.129] has joined #lisp 15:32:20 hello nyef 15:34:53 LiamH: It does. I realize I'm being a little pedantic wanting to compare the results of a single-float calculation with a single-float epsilon. I think I have good reason to do that and I think the predicates can be designed to accommodate both requirements. 15:35:08 s/requirements/uses/ 15:36:58 tmh: Oh, OK. I can see how you would want reference single-float-epsilon in the case of two single floats, but then what would you do for a single float against a double float? 15:38:32 LiamH: What it does now which is use the epsilon of the least precise value with the rationale that there is no way for the relative error between them to be less than the least precise epsilon. 15:38:56 -!- letexpx [n=letexpx@cbl33-1-82-228-229-180.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:39:40 OK. Of course this can be completely overridden by setting *epsilon* anyway, which gives the user complete flexibility. 15:41:58 LiamH: Yes, so instead of relying on the functions to determine this, we could still coerce everything to (complex double-float) and specify single-float, for example, with *epsilon*. I'm still a little reticent to coerce everything to (complex double-float). If you let me churn my wheels on the problem a little, I'm sure I'll come around. :-) 15:45:00 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-130-18.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:45:17 LiamH: Actually, what I'm struggling with at the moment is the are situations with arrays where you want to compare the relative error of each element and there are situations where you want to compare the error norm. I'm trying to design an intuitive interface for this. 15:45:30 tmh: if your problem is with the proper coerce of reals, check clhs; it says reals become complexes (of the right type) with zero imaginary part. 15:45:36 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:45:50 -!- rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-336433668211a5cd] has quit [] 15:45:53 tmh: arrays are a harder problem 15:46:00 aunwork_ [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 I think maybe we want an option on that. 15:46:32 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-168-239-141.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:47:34 I can imagine places where you want to compare elment by element, and places where you want to compare the norm. However it seems like in the latter case, you should just do so; i.e., do number-equal on the norms, not on the arrays themselves. 15:47:36 LiamH: Nah, my problem is more than anything aesthetic. I don't like coercing values without good reason. I think you have a good case for doing it here, I just haven't convinced myself, yet. 15:48:51 semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 15:49:52 LiamH: I have all of the routines in place for the error norms where a (float-equal A B) gives ||A-B||/||A|| where A is the exact array and B is the approximate array. What I don't have is a good interface to everything. I think I'm going to re-organize it. 15:50:11 Rather that should be ||A-B||/||A|| < epsilon 15:50:34 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:42 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:51:00 dysinger [n=tim@216.243.14.115] has joined #lisp 15:51:19 -!- aunwork_ [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:52:15 And there are a few options for choosing the measure of the norm, but nothing exhaustive. 15:52:19 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:52:53 *tmh* often spends too much time on aesthetics. 15:53:19 -!- bdowning_ is now known as bdowning 15:53:30 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 15:54:45 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 15:55:38 GSLL has a norm function. I don't think you want to require GSLL for lisp-unit (I don't), so that's one more reason to lean toward doing an elementwise comparison. As I said, the user can apply the norm if that's the test desired. I might make an exception for complex numbers as we discussed, since #'abs is a built-in function. 15:56:06 -!- jlf [n=user@adsl-99-137-140-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:56:13 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16AADC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:56:14 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-55-73.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:32 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.203.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:59:39 LiamH: it's probably just a call to hypot(3) in a sane implementation, so don't let that stop you from generalising. 16:01:11 LiamH: Well, I've already implemented it, I just have committed the changes to the library. What I'm afraid of, though, is feature creep. The interface is not coherent and that may be because I'm trying to do too many things with one function. 16:01:20 s/have/have not/ 16:01:31 I have *not* committed the changes. 16:01:50 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:03:49 I'm experimenting with the lisp-unit changes on my linear algebra stuff. I found a glaring error in my Hermitian matrices, though, and am simultaneously trying to fix that. Cue circus music now. 16:03:51 I wouldn't worry too much about feature creep; after all, it happens for a good reason. If we come up with something that is widely useful, I think that will be good. 16:11:05 pkhuong: interesting, I didn't know about hypot. However the general case of arrays would have >2 arguments, so it would require some work to generalize. 16:11:09 Since I brought it up, a (complex rational) with a zero imaginary part can, and often is, coerced to a rational. So, a rational Hermitian matrix could become populated with real values. There is no way to validate the data used to set the elements. I can't think of a reasonable way to deal with this. 16:11:53 LiamH: right, but for abs of complex (: I wonder what a stable and precise 2-norm on vectors looks like. 16:12:12 tmh: complex rational with a zero imaginary part *must* be simplified to a rational 16:12:20 non-floatsy complexes are lossy. 16:12:45 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:13:44 -!- shmho` [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:13:59 pkhuong: In LAPACK, and this is what I use, they calculate a scaled sum and return the scaling value and the square sum, so ( scale, sumsq ) <- |x|_2 . Then you get the norm by simply taking (* scale (sqrt sumsq)). 16:14:58 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.206.120] has quit ["leaving"] 16:15:01 neat! 16:15:11 fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.206.120] has joined #lisp 16:16:05 *tmh* wonders if that was sarcastic? 16:16:11 Anyway, have to run. 16:16:22 no, really. 16:17:14 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:17:31 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 16:19:16 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-170-231.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:32 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 16:20:06 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.4.76] has joined #lisp 16:20:37 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-184-204-125.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:22:04 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:22:36 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E43E9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 16:22:51 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 16:23:19 jlf [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 16:23:23 -!- Corun is now known as Corun|away 16:23:55 smolyn [n=smolyn@76.77.66.100] has joined #lisp 16:24:57 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:31 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 16:27:56 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:28:24 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:27 -!- fvw [n=sdfpme@113.77.206.120] has quit ["leaving"] 16:29:04 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:30:43 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:31:40 -!- rickardg [n=user@c-077671d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:35:06 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E43E9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:03 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:23 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EC54.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:36:53 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:37:54 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has quit [] 16:38:20 cel [n=cel@121.Red-79-151-50.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:24 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:38:38 hi 16:38:38 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:21 any Lisp (better for Win32) with a graph/chart drawing library? (to generate statistics on text analysis, co-occurrences, word weight, etc...) 16:41:28 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 16:41:35 minion: cl-2d 16:41:35 cl-2d: Cl-2d is a two-dimensional graphics library for Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cl-2d 16:42:54 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.4.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:44:13 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:44:31 thanks jlf 16:45:08 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:45:25 dlowe: what's the &key nsec arg for local-time:now used for? i can't imagine how you can have the nano-sec information when calling 'now... (i'm cleaning up gettimeofday stuff related to recent sbcl changes) 16:46:01 attila_lendvai: someone wanted it for representation purposes - I think they actually had nanoseconds they wanted to track 16:46:46 dlowe: hrm. i've got rid of it in the process, but then i'll add it back with a comment 16:47:15 -!- smolyn [n=smolyn@76.77.66.100] has left #lisp 16:47:43 ...or without a comment... 16:48:00 -!- ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:48:31 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 16:49:02 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 16:49:29 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-123.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:54:29 -!- Corun|away is now known as Corun 16:55:07 -!- konr1 is now known as konr 16:55:49 attila_lendvai: which sbcl changes? 16:56:30 Have a bit of confusion here. 16:56:40 If I write the fllowing: http://paste.lisp.org/display/80606. 16:57:17 I see that vectorp returns t for any one dimantional array 16:57:28 dlowe: 1.0.28.66 obsoleting sb-unix:gettimofday 16:57:41 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-143-242.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:57:46 attila_lendvai: huh. somehow I missed that in the changelog 16:57:48 jthing: a one dimensional array is a vector 16:57:49 attila_lendvai: thanks 16:58:00 dlowe: it's a few minutes old... ;) 16:58:03 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:58:08 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:21 But for the type of the array to be a vector only array's with :element-type t will evaluete to vector 16:58:46 Why this discreppancy? 16:59:06 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 16:59:54 jthing: the element-type stored in an array has nothing to do whether it's a vector or an array. again: a one dimensional array is a vector... no more, no less 17:01:11 Just not of the type vector. 17:02:15 see my paste 17:03:18 (subtypep '(simple-vector 3) 'vector) => t 17:03:27 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:03:38 dunno, i don't see anything wrong with the paste 17:04:50 EasyScript351801 [n=damascen@200.129.136.46] has joined #lisp 17:04:51 (type-of (make-array 10)) == (simple-vector 10) 17:05:10 dlowe: ehh, that &key hurts... would you mind if i deleted it? i really doubt that it's a feature many of the users will use. and then people who need it can introduce their own 'now that setf's nsec-of... 17:05:27 clhs 4 17:05:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/04_.htm 17:05:31 attila_lendvai: sure, I don't mind. 17:05:39 attila_lendvai: doing performance measurements? 17:05:42 (type-of (make-array 10 :element-type 'character)) == simple-array character (10) 17:06:08 dlowe: nope. i meant that it huts my concept of cleanness... :) 17:06:10 for both vectorp is T 17:06:22 attila_lendvai: I'm sure it hurts speed too 17:06:31 jthing: why it shouldn't be? 17:07:05 -!- dl [n=user@dhcp39.hpc.unm.edu] has left #lisp 17:07:56 To me the second looks like a simple-array not a simple-vector. 17:08:41 So just because two elements are vectors you can't rely on them being of the same type. 17:09:15 do you know about type hierarchy? class precedence? 17:09:16 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:32 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:10:01 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:03 -!- EasyScript351801 is now known as slackaholic 17:10:08 Sure, as well as the mismatch between the type system and the class system. 17:10:49 alla (class-of 1) integer, (type-of 1) fixnum, or even bit 17:11:18 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:11:40 fixnum would be non-conforming 17:12:23 milanj [n=milan@79.101.231.102] has joined #lisp 17:12:59 Not as far as I can see, Bit is not required to be in the type hirarchy 17:13:00 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-110-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:13:16 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 17:14:05 bit is required to be in the type hierarchy. 17:15:41 whatever 17:16:23 *OberWorked* ponders if elisp is off topic here 17:16:37 it is 17:16:43 OberWorked: #emacs is over there <- 17:16:52 *OberWorked* is both places 17:20:05 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-251.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 17:21:15 Ok, I'll look at class vector.. 17:26:36 jmbr [n=jmbr@38.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:29:34 _puf_DT-KK [n=kimkhanh@115.74.120.6] has joined #lisp 17:30:15 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-94.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:31:36 -!- xan_ is now known as xan-afk 17:31:41 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:33:00 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [] 17:39:29 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-6-39.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 17:41:40 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 17:43:15 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.2.52] has joined #lisp 17:43:33 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-115-93.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:43:55 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:45:46 -!- _puf_DT-KK [n=kimkhanh@115.74.120.6] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:46:39 nyef pasted "The first actual ARM code generation... hopefully" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80608 17:48:03 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16AADC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:48:07 -!- rolly1975 [n=rory@193.108.78.132] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"] 17:48:59 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:51 -!- slackaholic [n=damascen@200.129.136.46] has left #lisp 17:53:44 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["arm impressed"] 17:55:35 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-22-241.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["« La POO c'est bien beau, mais en C au moins on va droit au but. »"] 17:56:24 Good evening. 17:58:05 Hello beach. 17:59:43 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:01:51 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-166.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:10 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:24 -!- djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 18:03:04 djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has joined #lisp 18:03:12 ubuntu_ [n=ubuntu@72.89.124.146] has joined #lisp 18:03:49 Is (eq (function foo) (function foo)) always true for valid values of foo? 18:03:59 Modius: no. 18:04:06 Indeed not. 18:04:15 What's the deal-breaker on that? 18:04:18 Lambdas. 18:04:31 Aah - assuming foo is a symbol 18:04:52 same problem. 18:05:04 that foo could be symbol-macroletted? 18:05:12 Or is there another variant? 18:05:15 -!- ubuntu_ [n=ubuntu@72.89.124.146] has quit [Client Quit] 18:05:27 no. The implementation is free to return a fresh object each time. 18:05:36 Acknowledged - thanks! 18:08:24 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-243-95-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:10:24 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:12:13 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 18:13:04 chuckler [n=fa@117.192.131.70] has joined #lisp 18:13:22 is there a seperate swank-sbcl.lisp for amd64 architecture?? 18:13:36 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Client Quit] 18:13:40 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 18:13:48 no, why are you asking? 18:14:10 i am trying to load stumpwm with swank 18:14:21 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Client Quit] 18:14:27 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 18:14:32 and what's wrong? 18:14:53 and stumpwm complains about an ABORT restart active msg and in the conslle where id id a startx i see that there seems to bea version mismatch 18:14:55 Krystof [n=csr21@host86-146-135-91.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:24 slime and swank should be with the same version 18:16:20 i.e. says error loading ~/.slime/........sbcl-1.0.,28-x86/swank-sbcl.fasl 18:16:56 and below that says because my /lib/sbcl... is x86_64 but "this" is x86 18:18:00 so, it's trying to load x86 fasl into x86-64 sbcl? that's strange, because slime should distinguish between them 18:18:46 is your slime recent? 18:19:38 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 18:20:42 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:26:02 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EC54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:07 i keep getting this error: cannot load stumpwmrc - no restart ABORT is active 18:26:14 stassats: yes 18:26:20 yes 18:26:35 slime is not the latest 18:26:41 a week or two it hnk 18:26:48 should be ok 18:26:50 i have the latest checkout willt yr wiht that 18:27:00 the same slime works in another machine fine 18:27:19 with the same versions of sbcl and same version of stumpwm 18:27:28 so, what steps are you doing to load swank? 18:27:53 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:29:10 hold on 18:29:24 pastieing it 18:32:10 chuckler: use paste.lisp.org 18:33:46 ahh 18:33:47 thx 18:33:52 hehe was hunting for a good pastie 18:35:07 chuckler: new here? 18:35:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/80611 18:35:10 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:35:16 beach: yes 18:35:19 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:36:10 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@host86-146-135-91.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:36:46 Been browsing the clqr further today, and another question arises. For example, in the let form we have: (let (name value) (declare decl) form...) 18:36:57 what's this (declare ...) thing here and in many other forms? 18:37:06 delcarations 18:37:09 clhs declare 18:37:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_declar.htm 18:37:25 like, types, and other things 18:37:52 antoszka: Plus, (let (name value) is not legal syntax. 18:38:02 beach: i know 18:38:03 antoszka: Perhaps that was a typo, but in your let example you've introduced 2 symbols, not a symbol bound to a value. Should be (let ((name value)) ...) 18:38:05 beach: ate the parens 18:38:14 tmh: yep,  18:38:54 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.166.58] has quit ["Log this!"] 18:39:16 (let ({name|(name [value])}*) decl* ...) 18:39:45 yeah, that's the precise spelling. 18:40:15 precise would be s/.../form*/ 18:40:22 carbocalm [n=user@204.101.159.226] has joined #lisp 18:40:43 are declarations only for compiler optimizations or do they serve a purpose within the language? 18:40:58 clhs special 18:40:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_specia.htm 18:41:21 guaqua: Are you saying that compiler optimizations are not a purpose within the language? 18:41:22 + ignore, ingorable 18:42:00 beach: i see language and implementation as two different things 18:42:35 stassats: so declare isn't only for compiler. thanks, need to read more 18:43:25 beach: they always meet at some point, but in general i'd like to be able to talk about languages without taking the implementations into account 18:43:44 guaqua: I think you want to read section 3.3.1 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_ca.htm 18:43:45 though, ignor* can be considered for compiler too 18:44:19 guaqua: Sure, but the Common Lisp language is defined by the standard, and DECLARE is part of that standard, so it becomes hard to argue your initial position. 18:44:27 guaqua: that section describes exactly the ways in which implementations are obligated to do something with declarations, and so "serve a purpose within the language" 18:44:46 dmiles [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:06 yeah, i was talking about programming languages in general. not about common lisp, specifically. sorry about the confusion 18:45:08 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:45:47 so, only special is not-for-compiler 18:45:50 guaqua: That was not obvious from your first uttering. 18:46:18 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:46:31 beach: yes. i realize that. that's what the sorry is for. we were in different contexts, so to speak 18:47:14 guaqua: Take C as an example. In that language declarations are required, so definitely "serve a purpose within the language". 18:47:43 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16AADC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:48:10 to serve a purpose in the language and and to have any meaning when you are analyzing 18:48:13 arggh 18:48:51 to serve a purpose - that's a functional relationship. to have a meaning (as a thinking aid, syntactic sugar etc) is meaningful 18:49:14 that cl-2d sure looks nice 18:49:28 guaqua: If you start thinking about these things seriously, perhaps one day you can do programming-language-related research. 18:49:34 one would like those graphs in the mcclim pane. 18:49:35 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:37 hrrm hrrm. 18:49:55 schme: Welcome back! 18:50:00 beach: maybe :) 18:50:13 oh hey beach man! Yes yes, my self imposed exile from IRC is over after a month or two. 18:51:07 Also it would seem I have misplaced my ~/wd 18:51:33 Hmm 18:52:01 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-166.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:29 schme: It looks like I'll be close to Malmø from August 20 to August 24. Any chance of dinner or a beer somewhere? 18:52:42 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:53:37 beach: That sounds doable, yes! 18:54:06 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-123-13.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:24 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 18:54:24 I don't quite have my calendar here in front of me, but it sounds like I'm not away. 18:55:14 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.2.52] has left #lisp 18:56:26 schme: OK, let's try to make this possible. As I recall, you now live close to Möllevångstorget? 18:56:35 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [] 18:56:46 Yes indeed. 18:57:45 schme: I will very likely stay in "Bosses gästvåningar" on Södra Förstadsgata which is with walking distance. Dinner at the Thai place on the square would be one possibility. 18:58:05 I love their green curry! 18:58:44 never tried it (: 18:59:14 Do you like spicy food? 18:59:33 I love it. (: 18:59:48 I think we might have a preliminary deal! 19:00:11 Other Lispers in Malmø are of course welcome to join in! :) 19:00:21 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:01:02 Are there any Polish lispers lurking around this channel? 19:01:05 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:39 schme: I shall be busy on the evening of the 21st with a meeting with my high-school pals. We are celebrating the 35th anniversary of "studenten". 19:01:44 Indeed! The more the merrier! We should get tic to get down here and he can explain the finer points of his freaky diet to me at the same time. 19:01:45 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:01:49 Yes! 19:01:50 "fy fan vad vi är bra" 19:01:53 antoszka: You bet (though not me). 19:02:03 "freaky diet"? 19:02:06 beach: Wouldn't bet much, though :). 19:02:11 nyef, Atkins-ish. 19:02:14 Ah. 19:02:31 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 19:02:33 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-243-95-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:02:34 schme: Having tic around would be fun! 19:02:38 (not /dieting/ to loose weight though, just eating lots of fat to stay haelthy) 19:03:03 beach, yes, I concur! A *real* shame I couldn't make it. :/ 19:03:11 beach, so when will that be? 19:03:15 tic: I have lost 20kg since I got back from TLOTLWC three years ago. 19:03:45 beach, I don't know about TLOTLWC. 19:03:48 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-123-13.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:04:02 The Land Of The...? 19:04:03 -!- dysinger [n=tim@216.243.14.115] has quit [] 19:04:06 *schme* is on the eatlotsafoodprettymuchallthetime 19:04:13 tic: The Land Of The Long White Cloud. Also known as New Zealand. 19:04:19 beach, Oh. 19:04:27 tic: Like I said, I'll probably be in Malmø from August 20 to August 24. 19:04:54 beach, ah, didn't manage to do a regex matching dates when scrolling back. August 20th-24th, it is then. 19:05:13 beach: You mean Aotearoa? 19:05:18 There's an interview with me, performed by Kostdoktorn.se at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhwO8mB00Fc in case you want to hear my sweet sweet voice. :-) 19:05:26 beach: Easier to spell than that horrid acronim :) 19:05:27 antoszka: indeed! 19:05:34 tic: I think I saw that one. With some beard thing on yer face? 19:05:42 schme, yup. 19:05:44 beach: Been living there? 19:06:00 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-166.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:06:03 antoszka: A year, yes. Absolutely fantastic! 19:06:08 tic: If you need a room, let me know. 19:06:19 tic: That was quite interesting though. I'm staying in the "not trying it" camp though (: 19:06:23 hmm. 19:06:30 beach: I used to live there for some years as well, but a long time ago. This yeah I head a six-week visit, though. 19:06:38 s/yeah/year/ 19:06:55 schme, well, at least you're informed about it! Plus you have a face to my nick. How about that? :-) 19:07:05 antoszka: It is evolving fast. In terms of food, for the better! 19:07:11 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-217-166.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:07:51 tic: There was something about it on the radio too. 19:07:56 beach, is the date august 20th to 24th set in stone? This last thing that happened was hopefully the last, so I'll be able to arrange something. Besides, a trip to Malmö from Gbg is easy to arrange either way. What are you going to do there the rest of the days? 19:08:00 beach: Yeah, have you had a chance to visit Matterhorn on Cuba Mall in Wellington? 19:08:09 schme, there's a lot on the radio, I hope /I/ wasn't mentioned. :-) 19:08:37 jao [n=jao@120.Red-83-38-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:39 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:08:48 tic: (: it was on P1. some lady professor or other talking about it. I don't think it was you. 19:09:20 tic: Like I said, I have a high-school reunion the 21st, and I am just extending the date around that. I can't stay several weeks, but I can exend by a day or two at the beginning OR at the end. 19:09:51 beach, right, just curious if you had any plans for the other days other than 21st, but it seems you're free, then! 19:11:38 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:12:02 plan for the other days: kettlebell juggling in the sun. 19:12:06 (: 19:12:22 I'm game. 19:12:25 antoszka: I did go to Wellington but don't recall Matterhorn. I had a great time with a Lisper named Geoff Cant, though, who knows lots about "short black" coffee and the banking sector. 19:13:01 tic: Family tends to demand slots. I might go visit my cousin in Viken. 19:13:07 tic: It's crazy good exercise (: 19:13:07 beach: whereabouts did you stay that whole year? 19:13:25 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-110-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:13:40 schme, it 19:13:45 antoszka: I was based in Auckland, invited by the CS department of the University of Auckland. 19:13:48 schme, it's very functional, from what I've gathered. I like functional. 19:13:51 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:53 beach, *nod* 19:14:04 beach: Mhm. 19:14:40 tic: The sooner we can agree on dates, the better... 19:14:47 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181129202.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:14:54 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EC54.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:15:00 That'd be friday through Monday. 19:15:10 Well, Thursday. 19:15:23 ? 19:15:29 august 20th-24th. 19:15:38 tic: very functional. and it gets ones pulse up real good. It's just very... very nice (: 19:16:00 jophish [n=jophish@dial-80-47-3-226.access.uk.tiscali.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:06 *schme* will get back on the dates tomorrow or something. 19:16:42 *tic* well be available, as it looks like right now, any day. Need to hand in the vacation thingy, but one or two days in connection to the weekend is usually cool. 19:18:15 tic: Sunday August 23 would be fantastic for me. Then I could do my thing on the evening of the 21st, vistit my cousine on the 22nd, and I would be in relatively good shape. 19:19:17 beach, yeah, sure! heading back home early Monday? 19:19:52 tic: No idea. I don't have the tickets yet. 19:20:03 cmo-0 [n=user@86.99.142.187] has joined #lisp 19:20:05 beach, gotcha. 19:20:47 tic: so if you say Monday is the only day possible for you, I'll get a ticket for Tuesday. 19:21:02 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-75-36-141-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:10 -!- jao [n=jao@120.Red-83-38-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:21:14 beach, well, no, the entire weekend is OK, I was just thinking if I should get the day off on Monday or some such. :-) 19:21:48 jao [n=jao@33.Red-79-156-142.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:39 http://paste.lisp.org/display/80616 - can anyone take a looka t this... 19:22:41 tic: OK, let's keep in touch about this. 19:22:56 i am trying to start a REPL 19:24:15 anyone? 19:24:24 chuckler: have you tried deleting that fasl? 19:24:28 yes 19:24:29 -!- jao [n=jao@33.Red-79-156-142.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:24:32 same error 19:25:00 clarification: deleting swank-c-p-c.fasl, not swank-arglists.fasl 19:25:20 yes 19:25:31 then you must somehow have multiple sbcls involved... 19:25:40 one built with sb-thread and the other not 19:25:47 or a really confused sbcl build 19:27:06 kpreid: what would be the ebst way to fix this? 19:27:27 i get a swank not found error 19:27:28 dispose of the broken or different sbcl 19:27:40 hmm 19:27:42 k 19:27:48 will look in. thx anyway 19:28:15 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:30:14 getting a component swank not found. 19:31:41 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:31:51 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-75-36-141-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:31:59 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-43-167.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:32:09 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-75-36-141-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:58 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[n=saikat@adsl-75-36-155-135.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:07 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:04:28 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:44 -!- dysinger [n=tim@216.243.14.115] has quit [] 21:07:30 -!- derekv [n=abstract@c-76-112-240-178.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:08:49 dysinger [n=tim@216.243.14.115] has joined #lisp 21:09:56 -!- ejs [n=eugen@215-203-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:12:24 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:12:41 -!- dysinger [n=tim@216.243.14.115] has quit [Client Quit] 21:13:09 -!- OberWorked [n=user@32.97.110.63] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:14:09 hm, *print-length* doesn't affect printing strings? (let ((*print-length* 3)) (print "abcdefg")) 21:14:55 No, it's for lists. 21:15:25 so, is there something that cuts short string when they are printed, or do i have to handle that myself? 21:16:44 I would expect to have to handle that manually. 21:17:56 *attila_lendvai* adds that extra two lines then 21:19:20 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:30 antoni [n=user@8.pool85-53-27.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 21:19:35 -!- jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:20:00 hi all 21:20:32 jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 21:21:12 -!- Athas`` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:21:23 Athas`` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 21:24:18 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:24:48 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:25:14 pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:36 perhaps someone can remind me if operations on a foreign array, using either sb-alien:deref or sb-alien:sap-ref-32, will be compiled as efficiently as regular array operations on a specialized array 21:26:27 sohail [n=Sohail@207.81.121.15] has joined #lisp 21:26:37 use cl:disassemble, hefner 21:27:12 die in fire. 21:27:24 It depends on how you get access to your foreign array pointer. 21:27:55 But typically, yes, as efficient if not more so from lack of bounds checks. 21:28:06 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:28:23 cool, thanks. 21:28:23 jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has joined #lisp 21:28:38 -!- jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 21:29:37 -!- Athas`` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:30:35 -!- carbocalm [n=user@204.101.159.226] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:36:16 patric [n=patric@90-230-89-60-no148.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:36:53 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=greg@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:37:18 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 21:38:01 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:39:09 -!- jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:39:23 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:40:47 -!- patric is now known as pekka_ 21:41:19 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 21:48:14 Hunh. sb-posix has ioctl. I should probably start using it instead of sb-unix:unix-ioctl. 21:50:28 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 21:52:36 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 21:55:04 -!- sexybaaron [n=sexybaar@c-68-42-43-61.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:56:32 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:57:28 -!- coderdad_ [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:00:48 coderdad [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:44 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:03:07 coderdad_ [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has joined #lisp 22:03:30 -!- coderdad_ [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:03:52 coderdad_ [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has joined #lisp 22:08:06 -!- pekka_ [n=patric@90-230-89-60-no148.tbcn.telia.com] has quit ["leaving"] 22:09:34 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-128-196.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 22:09:41 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-141-8.vologda.ru] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:09:51 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 22:12:03 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:28 dbdkmezz [n=quassel@94-195-104-235.zone9.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:13:52 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:15:33 coderda__ [n=coderdad@mail.mwtrophy.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:58 -!- coderdad_ [n=coderdad@65.67.252.194] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:17:00 anyone here worked with commonqt? 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