00:02:07 -!- coffeemug [n=coffeemu@ool-457219b3.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 00:02:23 coffeemug [n=coffeemu@ool-457219b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:47 gh79d395pi69wd [n=gh7d395p@d75-157-249-24.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:16 -!- coffeemug [n=coffeemu@ool-457219b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 00:03:38 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-109.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:03:50 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 00:07:16 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:11:34 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 00:14:26 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:21:50 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:23:24 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-17-207-207.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:26:23 -!- amblerc [n=user@24-180-81-97.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:28:30 Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has joined #lisp 00:28:51 -!- schoppen1auer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:29:46 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:11 -!- gh7d395pi69wd [n=gh7d395p@d75-157-249-24.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:31:20 benny [n=benny@i577A0C98.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:31:57 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["BB!"] 00:35:54 thom_logn: it's a repeating/recursive variant of SRFI-1 split-at, so maybe look for that 00:36:27 wow. Complex arithmetic likes SSE. 00:37:26 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:50 <`toro> pkhuong: do you have a showcase program of SSE used in lisp? 00:38:15 <`toro> let's say how a program does something before and after SSE 00:38:41 hawkenbot [n=hawkenbo@199.80-202-137.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:38:48 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:39:08 <`toro> do you have a public portage overlay by any chance :) 00:39:10 -!- hawkenbot [n=hawkenbo@199.80-202-137.nextgentel.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:39:24 hawkenbot [n=hawkenbo@199.80-202-137.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:39:53 -!- hawkenbot [n=hawkenbo@199.80-202-137.nextgentel.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:40:45 f1shb0t [n=f1shb0t@199.80-202-137.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:34 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:42:18 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 00:43:07 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F553.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:45:22 hawken [n=m000@199.80-202-137.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:46:08 ah 00:46:13 -!- f1shb0t [n=f1shb0t@199.80-202-137.nextgentel.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:46:50 f1shb0t [n=f1shb0t@199.80-202-137.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:36 -!- f1shb0t [n=f1shb0t@199.80-202-137.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:47:56 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-134-135.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:58 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:52:40 freethink-home [n=berdote@adsl-190-234-31.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:02 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["DON'T PANIC"] 01:01:07 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:03:24 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 01:03:38 fundamental [n=fundamen@24-148-122-247.ip.mhcable.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:38 with my previous question about compiling sbcl lisp code...i am doing something with threads and it says i cannot compile while threads are running...so how would i compile to a binary executeable my program 01:04:17 don't start any threads. that probably means dumping the image from outside of slime. 01:05:22 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:08:53 hefner: i knew that, since slime starts 4 threads or so by default 01:09:05 -!- `toro [n=nonamme@cpe-74-64-125-220.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:09:30 but how would i code it so that i start the threads when the program is run 01:10:54 how do you do anything when the program is run? 01:11:05 -!- fundamental [n=fundamen@24-148-122-247.ip.mhcable.com] has left #lisp 01:11:28 -!- hawken [n=m000@199.80-202-137.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:12:23 arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 01:12:45 hefner: uhh i normally use a main function in C...or i would stick a main function to be executed at the bottom of my lisp source 01:12:56 look at save-lisp-and-die 01:13:27 jimi_hendrix: but you don't want your program to run when the code is loaded (which is before you dumped the executable), you want it to execute when the executable is run. 01:13:36 right 01:13:39 for this purpose, look at the :toplevel keyword to save-lisp-and-die 01:13:51 ok 01:20:13 -!- gh79d395pi69wd [n=gh7d395p@d75-157-249-24.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:21:40 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 01:23:07 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BB65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:24:01 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:25:56 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:12 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:27:33 nego_ [n=nego@c-67-173-168-255.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:33 hbock [n=hbock@pool-96-253-33-184.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:03 hey all. 01:32:46 having trouble getting SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE images to start up correctly when using CFFI. is there something obvious I should be doing? 01:32:59 getting memory faults as soon as the toplevel function loads 01:34:52 hi hbock 01:35:11 yes you probably need to unload the foreign libraries and then reload them when you restart 01:35:44 brilliant, thank you! 01:36:55 luis (maintainer of cffi) says he will accept a patch for it 01:37:03 as it's a common problem 01:37:58 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:32 hefner: one last thing...advised way of taking my code and sticking it in sbcl so i can save-lisp-and-die there and not in slime? should i just copy and paste? 01:40:16 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:36 jimi_hendrix: depends how you load it. I usually load my code as an asdf system, then use a shell script that calls sbcl to require the system and execute the save-lisp-and-die using expressions on the command line. 01:41:31 hefner: i just want it able to run without sbcl installed...so a binary 01:41:48 yes. 01:41:58 -!- ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit ["Coyote finally caught me"] 01:42:27 load your code, dump an image. I know or care how you load your code. Call (load). Use ASDF. Whatever works. 01:43:30 (don't) 01:44:22 -!- nego [n=nego@c-67-173-168-255.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:45:02 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:46:41 ok 01:49:08 hefner pasted "I do something like this" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80408 02:01:06 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-157-76.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:03 hefner: if i define some vars, do i need to define them inside the function i tell :toplevel to use or can i define them outside 02:03:02 damn. I tried using cffi:close-foreign-library with sb-ext:*save-hooks*, but that just spews "Undefined alien" all over the place when writing the core image. 02:03:28 It still blows up when loading, even when calling load-foreign-library :/ 02:03:50 Hmm, that's funny. I'm getting "Undefined Flying Object" as my error. 02:04:07 jimi_hendrix: if you mean defvar or defparameter, you can define those outside. 02:04:13 ok 02:04:19 defun too 02:04:35 defun can be used outside as well 02:04:38 hefner: and i can require outside also...right 02:05:13 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:200:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:05:24 it's weird because i've used PLOKAMI which loads libpcap, and it doesn't seem to do anything special. that works fine with s-l-a-d, but my own library doesn't. 02:06:00 hefner: how often do you think code extracts the imaginary part of complex-single-float? 02:07:29 pkhuong: don't know. less often than the real part? 02:08:28 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:03 It's the first slow-down I have so far. I don't think there's any big surprise that extracting the second float in a register is slower than just copying that register's contents. 02:11:01 hefner: last question, where is the dump saved? 02:12:40 jimi_hendrix: I don't know the precise answer to that, but I've never had to go searching for it. 02:12:48 -!- jimi_hendrix [n=user@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:13:18 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079167.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:13:56 ("where you told it to" 02:14:00 heh. 02:16:04 Don't people read what they paste before sending a bug report in? Oh hey, there's a simple-error, but god forbid I actually try and include it in the report :\ 02:17:17 they probably picked that habit up from using slime. 02:18:13 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-157-76.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [] 02:19:48 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:20:39 Acutually, what was sent was actually only the "FAILURE-P was set when creating "obj/from-xc/src/code/array.lisp-obj"." part, not even the synopsis of [style-]warning and errors at the end of the compilation. Not as egregious an oversight. 02:21:25 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:21:31 blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:51 hsaliak [n=hsaliak@bb116-15-29-118.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 02:22:13 -!- wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 02:22:24 -!- wentbackward_ [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 02:23:19 drhodes [n=none@209-20-72-61.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:33 konr1 [n=karkeej@201.82.132.33] has joined #lisp 02:27:06 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 02:27:32 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:38 chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-79-200-142.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:16 TheBunny [n=CrackBun@71-87-62-72.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:37:18 Corun [n=Corun@94-194-29-31.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:37:29 volte [n=volte@c-67-170-197-239.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:51 -!- TheBunny [n=CrackBun@71-87-62-72.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com] has left #lisp 02:37:55 -!- volte [n=volte@c-67-170-197-239.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:38:05 Heya y'all. I'm looking for Fax/Ed, anyone seen him? 02:39:46 not in several months, I believe. 02:40:00 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.132.33] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:41:42 Hmm 02:41:56 derekv [n=abstract@c-76-112-240-178.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:25 He used to be active in a channel I'm in ( #idevgames ). But he kinda disappeared. A bunch of us were lookin' to track him down. 02:42:28 Thanks, anyway. 02:43:24 ThemsAllTook [n=ThemsAll@c-71-62-240-147.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:10 hefner, don't suppose you have his email address do you? 02:46:10 From a posting of his in the archives of sbcl-devel, it appears to be: vegetarian.substitute@gmail.com 02:47:33 Hmm, thanks. That's the newest one we have too 02:53:54 mm... Wonder whether we should print a note when comparing non-eq-comparable types with EQ. Not only is it not very portable, but it's also a good way to pessimise code. We could also constant-fold that EQ to NIL ;) 02:55:10 pessimize how? 02:55:57 the arguments are boxed. 02:56:16 ah, right. 02:57:18 I'd think the reasonable thing to do is have it do what it does now on boxed arguments, and always return nil if one of the args is a boxed, non-EQ-comparable thing. 02:58:19 unboxed, you mean? 02:58:23 yeah. 02:58:48 theoretically, I could do that even if it's the same boxed argument. 02:59:18 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:47 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16] has quit [] 03:09:06 at least EQL on floats isn't slower than =. 03:11:46 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-215-133.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:11:56 -!- Corun [n=Corun@94-194-29-31.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving..."] 03:17:17 -!- ThemsAllTook [n=ThemsAll@c-71-62-240-147.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:17:52 hm...can somebody explain the post on planetlisp about the removal of *context* from the cl-cairo2 functions to me? 03:17:56 I like UML ... but it obviously wasn't set up with CLOS in mind 03:18:20 I mean tamas says it's unlispy but as an amateur I don't see why 03:19:15 it is unclean, and we lispers pride ourselves on our good hygiene. 03:20:08 One bad thing about doing that is it interacts badly with closures. *context* is a dynamic variable, so if your closure is called in a context where the context has changed, it might not do what you expected. 03:21:33 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-79-200-142.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:21:40 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:21:50 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:22:05 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:24:13 hefner: that sounds reasonable 03:27:48 i always feel dirty when i use dynamic variables 03:28:15 I feel hip and rounded corner! 03:29:32 I use a *context* special in my 6502 assembler, only because it would be impossibly verbose if I didn't. 03:32:26 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:25 Good morning. 03:45:34 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:51:46 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:54:20 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-250-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:55:20 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:55:25 |shiretoko [n=shiretok@69-89-178-142.ssi-pci.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:04 -!- Modius [n=Modius@99.179.100.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:59:37 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:59:56 Morning beach. 04:00:15 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-162.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 04:06:40 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 04:09:11 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-134-135.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:10:49 minion: logs 04:10:49 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 04:11:03 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:13 -!- hsaliak [n=hsaliak@bb116-15-29-118.singnet.com.sg] has quit [] 04:16:56 Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has joined #lisp 04:18:32 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:19:36 int80_h [n=michael@68.166.221.28] has joined #lisp 04:20:34 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:22:47 Any kindle users here? 04:23:30 Anyone here at all? 04:23:59 ferret_baron [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:14 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:49 have an exercise here to rename 3 file, cold.beer cold.ice and cold.milk to hot.beer hot.ice and hot.milk using clisp 04:25:07 http://blogninja.com/doc/hyperspec/Body/f_rn_fil.htm#rename-file I opened this and am reading along.. 04:27:45 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.139.204] has joined #lisp 04:28:00 evening gigamonk` 04:28:12 Yo slyrus. 04:28:26 What are you doing these days? 04:29:05 just got back from a weekend in mendocino, but other than that working away at the new(ish) company 04:29:13 all done with the book? 04:30:15 A bit left but it feels like it's measured in weeks now, rather than months or years. 04:30:39 Close enough that I'm sitting here working on a to-do list for after the book. 04:33:11 Yay! 04:35:29 *gigamonk`* wonders what the Lisp consulting market is like these days. 04:36:04 ferret_baron: in case you haven't figured it out yet, MAKE-PATHNAME with a :DEFAULTS argument will be handy. 04:38:17 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-5-242.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:22 thinking of putting your book on kindle? 04:38:43 derekv: well, that's probably up to Apress. 04:39:02 gigamonk`, figured :) 04:39:02 i'm getting one soon 04:39:07 The kindle calls to me. I'm trying to decide whether I should resist or not. 04:39:07 hm 04:39:14 idk if that counts me as a user 04:39:20 i'd get one if it was maybe $100 instead of 3 04:39:28 i'm convinced they are nice though 04:39:44 this hyperspec is a bit hmmm for me 04:39:49 as it stands i'll just lie on the couch with my laptop on its side :) 04:39:56 I notice the new (not yet out yet) Kindle DX has a built in PDF reader. 04:40:04 And is a bit bigger. 04:40:14 yeah i'm kind of thinking of waiting for that one, for the pdfs 04:40:24 i mostly read pdfs lately anyway 04:40:42 I wonder if I could use it for proofreading; i.e. the stuff where I now print out stuff so I can sit away from the computer and read it. 04:40:57 Of course I can't scribble on a Kindle. But it has some kind of bookmarking ability, right? 04:41:05 just make sure to get an erasable marker :-P 04:41:12 (That's actually why I was asking if anyone actually has one.) 04:41:19 (rename-file "sys:chemistry;lead.text" "gold.text") does this refer to say a file /sys/chemidtry/load.txt ? 04:41:26 lead.xtx 04:41:28 ferret_baron: try http://l1sp.org/pcl/make-pathname 04:42:06 ferret_baron: is someone specifically making you use logical pathnames? Or is that a self-inflicted wound? 04:43:05 Does anyone have any tech book publishers they like other than O'Reilly and Apress (not that you'd necessarily like those two)? 04:43:41 umm *looks at bookshelf* 04:44:00 its just in the hyperspec page :) 04:44:23 ferret_baron: yeah, don't mess with logical pathnames. 04:44:29 ok 04:45:29 gigamonk`, i see a lot of addison wesley on my bookshelf. I don't generally pay a ton of attention to publishers, except there's a few i don't jump at 04:45:31 sorry to be a tard but how to make common lisp run 'ls' in the repl? 04:45:32 like Que 04:45:32 I think gigamonk` is on to something here. Kindle needs an etch-a-sketch mode. 04:45:39 tclsh lets me 04:46:31 you should use transparency sheets 04:46:32 ferret_baron: if you literally want to run /bin/ls you'll need to use some implementation specific function called something like RUN-COMMAND 04:46:42 mqt [n=tran@caledonia.rh.rit.edu] has joined #lisp 04:47:13 But if you just want to get a list of files there's a built in function DIRECTORY 04:47:19 you may also want to look at cl-fad 04:47:25 minion: tell ferret_baron about cl-fad 04:47:26 ferret_baron: direct your attention towards cl-fad: CL-FAD is a portable pathname library based on code from Peter Seibel's book Practical Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cl-fad 04:47:32 -!- JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 04:47:34 (rename-file "/home/g/afile" "/home/g/tislube") well this worked 04:47:44 oh thats cool 04:50:13 -!- jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 04:51:02 I went though this thought chain: need to rename some files, but bash needs some funny command to enable extended globbing so I can do it, this sucks, I should learn something more powerful than bash, tcl looks very readable, ok thats how to do it in tcl...nice and easy and readble....http://technoninja.blogspot.com/2009/05/rename-files-in-tcl.html but hmm I know common lisp is powerful, how would I do it with clisp? 04:51:49 now for the slightly harder part: howto change say cold.milk to hot.milk 04:52:26 Play around with things like: (make-pathname :name "hot" :defaults old-file) 04:52:35 Im guessing that lisp can see file names as lists of characters..then spplit them up. 04:52:57 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 04:54:19 Well, CL looks at filenames as structured things made up of a name, a type (extension), a directory, and some other stuff that you can probably ignore. (Unless you have the misfortune to be on Windows.) 04:54:34 netbsd5 04:54:36 :) 04:54:51 It also knows how to parse locally meaningful strings (such as "/home/foo/stuff.txt") into these more structured objects. 04:55:15 so clisp has no inferiority to tcl to manipulate strings 04:55:25 or, more accurately, arbitrarily decides how to parse locally meaningful strings into these more structured objects 04:55:26 er files 04:55:56 ok sorry I wont talk vs tcl 04:56:03 ferret_baron: by "clisp" do you mean Common Lisp? 04:56:12 ut anyhow the dir and file name are objects, and then you can operate 04:56:16 There's a specific implementation called CLISP. 04:56:17 oops 04:56:21 common lisp yes 04:56:29 We call the language, CL, Lisp, or Common Lisp. 04:56:31 I also happen to be using the clisp implementation my bad 04:56:53 hefner: it's not that bad. (Leaving aside, as I said, Windows.) 04:57:31 (make-pathname :name "hot" "/home/g/cold.milk") repl didn't like this 04:57:49 ferret_baron: you need a :defaults in there 04:57:59 *aja* wonders if there should be a standard net slang for "with the exception of Windows, of course." wteowoc? 04:58:01 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.139.204] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:58:16 aja: I like how you think. 04:58:55 gigamonk`: It would allow me to shorten many of my general statements about how things should work. :-) 04:58:59 -!- mqt [n=tran@caledonia.rh.rit.edu] has left #lisp 04:59:01 mqt [n=tran@caledonia.rh.rit.edu] has joined #lisp 04:59:11 wow 04:59:14 that worked 04:59:19 could someone recommend a website that talks about migrating from xinetd to inetd? 04:59:30 I've found plenty talking about the reverse 04:59:48 oh crap wrong chanel sorry 04:59:52 lol 05:00:09 Speaking of which, I have this little sore thing on the end of my ... 05:00:23 ok finally how do I glob for all files with cold.somethings and feed them to this? 05:00:46 so I get all hot.somethings 05:00:57 make-pathname 05:01:01 gota look that up 05:03:24 and look up DIRECTORY 05:03:53 ferret_baron: You'll also likely be interested in the DIRECTORY function. 05:04:02 heh. Which you apparently already know. 05:04:08 You can probably do somethnig like (directory "cold.*") 05:04:08 => #P"/public/games/chess.db" what does the #P mean here 05:04:23 That means you've actually got a pathname object, not a string. 05:04:24 ferret_baron: path 05:04:38 -!- konr1 is now known as konr 05:04:48 *gigamonk`* is just *trouncing* aja 05:05:21 gigamonk`: Just you wait until I get my dvorak keyboard out ... 05:05:33 Ah, that's the thing--I'm already on dvorak. 05:06:14 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:18 *tic* is on a (modified) svorak. 05:06:51 *gigamonk`* wonders if one could find any correlation between Lisp usage and Dvorak usage. 05:07:18 Odd programming language preferences leads to odd keyboard layout preferences? 05:07:18 gigamonk`: Heh. Or a general venn diagram for geek qualities. 05:07:34 I like the Vim/Lisp venn diagram, speaking of which. 05:07:44 tic: People who do one odd, antisocial thing are likely to do others. 05:07:53 aja, *nod* 05:07:58 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 05:08:08 It's probably the same mentality that leads people to buy mercury filled audio-cables. 05:08:18 No, that's stupidity. 05:08:25 Hans Reiser being an extreme case, of course. 05:08:29 i'm thinking of switching around the symbol mappings on my keyboard along the lines of programmer's dvorak (only without the seemingly senseless odd/even number rearrangement) 05:08:37 (make-pathname :name "hot" :defaults (directory "cold.*")) repl didn't liek this 05:08:38 lol 05:08:45 There's little else to account for the popularity of dvorak. 05:08:50 oh the path missing duh 05:09:01 derekv, I took a svorak layout and moved some chars around to make programing easier. like an unshifted / 05:09:06 ferret_baron: yeah, you need to actually write a loop yourself. Or a map or something. 05:09:14 (spelling is obviously still hard. *goes back to work*) 05:09:28 DIRECTORY returns a list of pathnames. The :defaults argument needs to be a single pathname . 05:09:44 ah 05:10:17 this ereader looks pretty promising -> http://developer.irexnet.com/gpl 05:10:36 tic: I was thinking that a tendency to adopt unpopular technology on the grounds that it is "better" in some way, might play in both cases. 05:11:09 Intelligent people are vulnerable to interesting forms of stupidity. :) 05:11:28 -!- |shiretoko [n=shiretok@69-89-178-142.ssi-pci.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:11:35 Zhivago: hmmm, why you hatin' on Dvorak? 05:11:42 It's comfortable. 05:12:02 derekv: Waiting for my e-slick to ship. 05:12:09 I don't hate it - it's just that pretty much all of the arguments for it are either based on lies, or badly designed studies. 05:12:24 I think it's exactly the same phenomena as those audio-cables. 05:12:35 And people find those audio-cables really comfortable, too. 05:12:44 something to do with mylee cyrus no doubt 05:12:47 Nothing wrong with that. :) 05:13:02 I thought dvorak counted the most pressed keys 05:13:21 Zhivago, I use it. There is quite obviously less finger movement involved. 05:13:29 Zhivago: hmmm. I haven't delved deeply into it but the one "debunking" of Dvorak I've seen several times seems to have been itself "debunked" pretty thoroughly. 05:13:37 But I've no citations to back that up. 05:13:39 Yeah, and mercury filled cables have obviously superior sound quality, too. 05:13:45 Even if no-one can actually measure it. 05:13:53 You can't trust yourself in these matters. 05:15:15 Zhivago, true. but its trivial to measure using statistical analysis ... so this is an academic debate. either i've been mislead, or you have. if you have sources, i'll look at them. 05:15:45 I haven't done any first hand research myself. 05:16:03 gigamonk`, better tech: yes, always striving for perfection. it's a blessing and a curse. 05:16:32 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:17:05 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:17:12 derekv: It's actually fairly complicated to measure, which is why there are so many bad measurements. 05:18:13 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:18:39 Zhivago: have you done a detailed study yourself? Why are you so sure that the arguments an favor of Dvorak are all "based on lies, or badly designed studies"? 05:18:42 Zhivago, I guess your right in that getting a perfect measurement would be arguably equivalent to achiving perfect english text compression. 05:20:55 My wrists definitely feels better when typing on a dvorak layout compared to qwerty. 05:21:02 gigamonk: Well, I said "pretty much all" -- if you know of one which isn't, then please let me know. 05:21:03 I don't care as much for speed as I do for the health of my body. 05:21:19 But, all of Dvorak's studies were cooked, afaik. 05:21:26 volley for the foul 05:21:41 Zhivago, feel free to do a frequency analysis of English text and see what turns out on top. 05:22:00 tic: What would that tell me? 05:22:04 (I did so for everything I typed, half-half Swedish-English, and it was very close to my home row) 05:22:14 Zhivago, that dvorak isn't bogus. 05:22:18 tic: In what regard? 05:22:32 Being good for your hands. 05:22:56 (potentially for faster typing, thanks to the mostly alternating-hand layout) 05:22:58 tic: An excellent example of stupidity. 05:22:59 *aja* thinks that any argument about which user interface is "better" is fundamentally irresolveable. 05:23:17 Zhivago: do you consider the Navy study bogus? Because, as I understand it, there are some people who've claimed that but there are then others who claim that they're themselves full of it. 05:23:19 tic: How does a frequency analysis of English text tell us how much wear and tear there will be on the hands? 05:23:46 Zhivago, the most commenly used characters will be typed with your hands in a relaxed position, that's why. 05:23:47 Okay, that parsed terribly. 05:23:53 giga: Yes, I consider it bogus. Also there are conflict of interest issues. 05:24:15 tic: How does a frequency analysis of English text tell us what the relaxed positions of the human hand are? 05:24:32 Zhivago: Okay. I buy the arguments that point out that the claims that it's bogus are themselves bogus. 05:24:42 But I'm not going to spend my life trying to get to the bottom of it. 05:24:43 Zhivago, it does not. you have to go one more step, i.e. place those keys on the home row. 05:25:01 dvorak is the lisp of keyboard 05:25:21 better but not widely used 05:25:30 Here's an example of the debunking of the debunking: http://dvorak.mwbrooks.com/dissent.html 05:25:33 tic: As you wish. Just understand why your argument here is not a good one. 05:25:35 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:25:48 Zhivago, it's a perfectly good argument. 05:26:02 tic: No, it is completely stupid -- it does not measure what you claim it measures. 05:26:25 In order to do this properly you would require a longitudinal study of dvorak and qwerty (or whatever) typists. 05:26:44 And then you'd need to measure it in terms of problems produced by hand wear and tear. 05:26:46 dude, I already said my wrists kill me on qwerty. 05:26:55 which is unreasonable since users of dvorak probably had rsi related issues at the onset 05:27:18 tic: That may be the case, but you haven't taken the placebo effect into consideration. 05:27:31 Zhivago, placebo? please. 05:27:36 tic: Look it up. 05:27:50 Zhivago, all your getting it is that we can't _prove_ that it is medically beneficial to use dvorak? 05:27:51 That was low. 05:28:20 tic: Accupuncture seems to work very nicely for pain relief, and it seems to be pretty much entirely placebo -- since random pin placements seem to work pretty much as well. 05:28:47 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-167-159.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:28:47 derekv: Much like you can't prove that it is beneficial to use mercury filled audio cables. 05:28:48 *derekv* considers putting pins on his keycaps 05:28:52 *_3b* is a big fan of placebo... if you don't have the resources to get a good answer, you might as well assume one is right and get the placebo benefits :) 05:28:57 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087A5D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:03 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-167-159.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:08 The placebo effect is great -- no side-effects and it's cheap. 05:29:34 It's like saying my Das Keyboard's comfort is just placebo compared to rubber keyboards. 05:29:46 Zhivago: do you believe that QWERTY is better than Dvorak? Or just that they happen to be equal and thus there's no point in switching? 05:29:51 no side effects unless you think you'll get them :P 05:30:29 And if you think they are equal, do you think that all possible keyboard configurations are equally good (or bad) leaving aside conversion costs? 05:30:30 he seems to be saying that any arbitrary mapping is equivlent because nobody has proved otherwise 05:30:43 roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:53 jinx 05:30:59 derekv, e.g. turing tarpit. 05:31:05 giga: I haven't seen evidence that there is a significant difference between them. 05:31:05 *gigamonk`* hopes someone with the nickname roidrage has strong opinions on keyboard layouts. 05:31:20 giga: It's much like the audio cables in that regard, imho. 05:31:21 how hard to remap a keyboard on a friendly free unix? 05:31:24 pretty ez? 05:31:36 ferret_baron, trivial using xmodmap. 05:31:38 ferret_baron: xmodmap should do the trick 05:31:38 ferret_baron: Quite trivial. 05:31:45 *gigamonk`* bows to tic 05:31:46 http://dvorak.mwbrooks.com/counts.html do it yourself keyboard study! 05:31:52 gigamonk`: actually no, I like plain us layout 05:31:58 good morning btw 05:32:03 morning. 05:32:20 http://mikael.jansson.be/static/config/Xmodmap for my own flavor of Dvorak. 05:32:21 how long did it take u gents to get used to dvorak? 05:32:21 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-30-115.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:32:22 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087A5D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:32:31 (If you haven't read the logs, we're bickering about Dvorak vs. QWERTY.) 05:32:38 I figured some rage would add to the discussion. 05:32:38 ferret_baron, a few months. 05:32:41 ddi you have to buy stickers for your keyboard? 05:32:47 after 3 months totally 05:32:52 ferret_baron, no. why would one do that? 05:32:55 ferret_baron: no, don't get stickers 05:32:55 ferret_baron: I switched the summer between high-school and college. 05:32:59 No stickers. 05:33:11 maybe two weeks to be able to type 05:33:12 I switched '98 or if it was '99, can't remember. 05:33:20 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 05:33:20 ferret_baron: Just having blank keys is so much cooler ... :-) 05:33:20 didnt it mess you up? or is the whole point you arent looking at the keyboard 05:33:28 blank! 05:33:30 well, after you've learned them all in some way 05:33:42 I cant type well 05:33:44 heh 05:33:45 ferret_baron: if you're still hunting and pecking, Zhivago's probably right--any layout is as good as any other. 05:33:46 ferret_baron, obviously you should touch type, or there is little point in switching. 05:33:48 you aren't supposed to be looking at the keyboard 05:33:56 gigamonk`, me too heh. my keyboard was strait so i just popped the keys off and put them back on in the new layout 05:33:57 :( 05:34:02 *tic* has a blank-key DKIII 05:34:18 didnt that break the keys? 05:34:24 i find dvorak is significantly worse for single handed pecking 05:34:26 *guaqua* uses kinesis freestyle 05:34:30 derekv: true 05:34:41 good night gents 05:34:49 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:34:50 'night, ferret_baron 05:34:55 because its optimized to switch between hands almost every letter 05:35:05 -!- ferret_baron [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:36:07 there's a good tutorial w/ textareas, but I can't find it now. 05:36:52 it took me about a month to become proficient with dvorak at the same level i was at with qwerty. but, the downside is that I couldn't switch back to qwerty at all. even still, i am not as fast typing qwerty as i was 05:37:17 i think its sortof pressing the limits of what muscle memory can do 05:37:23 Well, it's still cheaper than $6000 audio-cables, I hope. :) 05:37:35 -!- kidd2 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:37:40 yea 05:37:45 it would suck if they broke 05:37:49 I'm way faster at Dvorak than I ewer was at qwerty. I max somewhere around 120 wpm, sustained 100-120. 05:37:55 the problem is to know what you want to type. :-) 05:38:26 seems like it'd be faster to have common digrams fall under the same hand in the same row 05:38:28 yea, speed isn't a problem when you can't think faster then you type 05:38:47 hefner, th is on right-hand index and middle finger. 05:38:49 *gigamonk`* has toyed with the idea of getting a stenotype keyboard. 05:39:07 hah. i looked at that 05:39:16 > $3000 05:39:24 Plus a *huge* learning curve. 05:39:26 but would it be good for programming? 05:39:31 Probably not. 05:39:38 Aren't those language-dependent? 05:39:44 tic: highly. 05:39:46 They're phonetic. 05:39:57 ejs [n=eugen@229-201-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:58 Right. That's kind-of sucky as I'm multi-lingual. 05:40:02 I don't know that I ever found my programming typing-bound. 05:40:05 But writing English can be. 05:40:14 So be more expressive. ;) 05:40:30 (more? less expressive, more terse!) 05:40:30 I don't think so. Stenos don't type literally , i'm not sure if the mapping from steno-type to normal english could be done by a computer 05:40:37 tic: well, the basic phonetic principles apply the same, as long as you're not talking about Chinese or someting. 05:41:06 In fact, in the old days of pen-writing shorthand reporters, some of them could take shorthand of languages they didn't speak. 05:41:08 gigamonk`, luckily, no, heh. My grandpa can steno-write. Quite cool. 05:41:19 (And then transcribe them with the help of a native speaker presumably.) 05:41:24 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 05:41:24 Oh, cool. 05:41:30 tic: pen-writing or steno-typing? 05:41:39 steno keyboards are also highly customized 05:41:51 gigamonk`, pen-writing, e.g. those scratchings that are phonetic. 05:42:03 you can tune almost everything. you can tune the sensitivity of each individual key 05:42:07 Strangely enough, the top pen-writers could do slightly above 300 wpm which is about where stenotypists top out. 05:42:18 Though that may have to do with how fast people can talk. 05:42:21 crazy. 05:42:45 micromachines guy >400 wpm 05:42:47 And I suspect that a far greater % of modern stenotypists can do 300 wpm than pen-writers could. 05:43:31 derekv: "micromachines guy"? 05:43:41 Oh, talking? 05:44:09 *gigamonk`* can actually write Gregg shorthand but not fast enough to be useful. 05:44:11 yea 05:45:45 *gigamonk`* wonders what Zhivago would do with the competing counter claims of Pitman vs Gregg shorthand advocates. 05:46:22 Claim that shorthand isn't measurable faster than any other form of writing? 05:46:48 Hopefully I exaggerate. 05:47:57 gigamonk`: I've thought that touch and stylus screens might bring formal shorthand back into vogue, but haven't seen many indications. 05:48:57 *aja* also found it funny when peopl toughted "(mouse) gestures" as a new idea. 05:49:08 kuwabara [n=kuwabara@84.14.121.138] has joined #lisp 05:50:12 kidd2 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:24 jmbr [n=jmbr@248.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 05:52:55 aja: I think the problem is shorthand has even less redundancy than handwriting so the OCR problem is even worse. 05:53:17 (Or not OCR, but the recognition problem.) 05:53:55 For instance, in Gregg shorthand, there are a half dozen pairs of consonant sounds that each differ only in size. 05:54:02 a 05:54:03 Day changed to 18 May 2009 05:54:03 00:39 Gratulerer med dagen, eirik? 05:54:03 00:39 Hm. !, ikke ? 05:54:10 damn, sorry. 05:55:32 Okay, folks. I'm off. Goodnight. 05:55:56 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:56:44 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-95408e852c40f5bc] has joined #lisp 06:00:02 -!- ejs [n=eugen@229-201-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:00:04 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 06:03:54 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 06:12:21 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:14:37 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:30 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [] 06:19:43 -!- ASau_ [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:22:44 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:23:22 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:28:12 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:29:24 Hello 06:32:14 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-152-38.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 06:33:50 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:34:07 here we go, maybe this is an interesting question: suppose (defparameter a (some-accessor (make-instance 'my-class))) 06:35:04 does the class instance just rest inaccessibly in memory until a is freed or reassigned? 06:35:30 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:36:18 assuming no other magic, it probably gets garbage collected at some point 06:36:19 mega1 [n=mega@3e70c883.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:37:17 so slot values are assumed to be held by refrence and can have lifespans apart from their parent object? 06:37:49 i guess everything is 'by reference'. i used c++ for a very long time. 06:38:05 yeah, I don't think you've quite adapted to the notion of a GC yet 06:38:27 no not really :P 06:39:11 There's no particular reason the slot value should reference the instance it came from. If nothing else does either, that object can be garbage collected. 06:41:01 unless, of course, you are misunderstanding what defparameter does 06:42:20 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 06:43:40 I don't think so. I think its just that when I visualize things I think of how it works in c++ by default. In other words, if you told me foo is a structured grouping of data that contains an integer a, I would assume that is probably stored in a memory location equal to the instances memory location plus some offset 06:44:19 a better approximation would be to view them as pointers, in that case. 06:44:35 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:44:44 good morning 06:44:47 i don't understand this 06:45:23 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 06:45:40 i thought i fixed this already, but it's still there 06:46:49 derekv: ah, right. think of slots as holding pointers then. things like small integers, characters, and sometimes single-floats aren't necessarily pointers, but those are things where if the system copied them, you couldn't tell the difference. 06:48:46 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:50:14 Seems like there's a lot for the implementation to consider if its going to store them 'inline' (so to speak) 06:51:16 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:52:00 ahh, it could tag the memory chunk as 'is composition', 06:52:02 I'm not sure that ever happens, except for some simple cases of unboxed objects, but I can't speak for every CL implementation (or even the ones I use, really) 06:52:32 Seeing "Series Expansion" in action make me realize that our habitual c.l.l trolls are quite harmless in comparison. 06:52:53 nikodemus: what's still there? Your complex thingy? 06:53:12 you might have a contaminated host 06:53:37 nope, i think i just didn't do the final build on x86-64 06:54:02 I think it would be costly to check every object to make no still-refrenced object lies within the composed objects boundries 06:54:16 rather i think the cause now is (cross-typep #(0.0 0.0) '(complex single-float)) => NIL, NIL 06:54:50 ok, so the same cleverness needs to be put in there 06:55:05 right, so i can look at the contents there? 06:55:09 *Krystof* -> work; shout later if it's still not working 06:55:21 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-166.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 06:55:32 derekv: For one thing, you would lose the reference semantics if you were to access a slot and put the value in (say) a variable. 06:55:34 I think so; IIRC cross-typep means "is this host object, if it were on the target, of this target-type?" 06:55:40 check the comments, though 06:55:45 i will, thanks 06:58:24 -!- m4thias` [n=user@39.84-48-162.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:58:24 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:00:33 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 07:00:55 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:01:59 beach, yea it is a tad weird, probably bad style. i wrote the statement on the repl 07:02:00 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-152-38.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 07:02:35 in a program proper it'd probably be to hackish 07:03:07 but good for self-teaching :) 07:07:00 if I'm following this conversation correctly, and that's questionable, the interobject pointer stuff (locatives really, but the same idea applies) that Joe Marshall was just blogging about seems relevant 07:07:47 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-155-65.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:07:50 I might not be leaving a very correct conversation to follow. 07:08:12 good morning 07:08:20 hello mvilleneuve 07:08:43 hey beach, how are you? 07:08:57 mvilleneuve: Fine! What about you? 07:08:57 beach: excellent party, as usual. Thanks a lot! 07:08:59 hefner, 'oldspace and transporter' entry? 07:09:07 mvilleneuve: yeah, very nice! 07:09:22 derekv: yeah. 07:10:14 hefner, too heavy for now, bookmarked tag 'read this' for later 07:10:41 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:11:32 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 07:11:54 beach: I even got a little sunstroke, that was unexpected... :) 07:12:01 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 07:13:09 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@248.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:14:22 mvilleneuve: bah, I could have predicted that! :) 07:14:31 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:15:33 kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.181.187] has joined #lisp 07:15:55 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:25 _vikrant_ [n=user@125.16.223.98] has joined #lisp 07:16:36 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-7f4c8bd1e8e6a858] has joined #lisp 07:17:57 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:18:24 .. 07:18:54 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:21:50 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 07:23:57 Modius [n=Modius@99.179.100.6] has joined #lisp 07:24:29 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:24:48 matley [n=matley@83.225.46.29] has joined #lisp 07:27:06 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-29-146.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:35:02 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:36:23 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 07:37:58 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:38:43 aerique [n=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:39:27 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:40:10 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:40:32 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:40:45 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 07:41:04 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 07:41:56 -!- aerique [n=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 07:43:37 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:44:38 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:23 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-60-207.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:45:29 dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 07:46:19 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 07:47:56 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 07:55:58 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:47 -!- ia__ [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:57:08 -!- roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:57:25 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 07:57:28 ia__ [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 07:59:42 roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:40 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 08:04:52 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 08:05:00 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 08:09:20 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 08:10:23 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 08:10:29 good morning 08:11:33 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:12:42 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:21:46 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 08:24:10 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:27:41 -!- _vikrant_ [n=user@125.16.223.98] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:27:42 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 08:29:05 aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has joined #lisp 08:29:27 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:29:40 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 08:32:06 -!- roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:33:00 slacks21 [n=ckuttruf@ip68-101-220-87.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:12 Someone happen to know what the startup file is for allegro? 08:33:23 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:34:04 nm... found it. .clinit.cl 08:35:20 -!- matley [n=matley@83.225.46.29] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:35:49 -!- kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.181.187] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:36:38 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 08:40:37 ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has joined #lisp 08:42:38 roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:31 Question about SERVE-EVENT: Let's say you have events E1, E2; now E1 runs, and binds *FOO* to :E1, then it is interrupted and E2 is run in basically the same dynamic environment, right?, so it'll see *FOO* being :E1 08:43:42 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:43:46 now let's say E2 binds *FOO* to :E2, now E2 is interrupted so E1 can run again 08:44:01 what is the value of *FOO* when E1 runs a second time? 08:44:58 kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.180.242] has joined #lisp 08:45:28 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:46:54 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-8.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:48:52 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:48:55 tcr: interrupted how ? 08:48:57 tcr: :E2 08:49:09 splittist [n=dmurray@24-198.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:49:12 morning 08:49:13 didn't know serve-event interrupts 08:49:48 it doesn't 08:50:29 cause if it did, slime wouldn't take it over 08:51:06 _vikrant_ [n=user@125.16.223.98] has joined #lisp 08:52:17 in what way does slime take it over? 08:52:37 in the way that it no longer works 08:52:56 event dispatching does not happen 08:53:12 It runs each event until it's finished? 08:53:20 -!- rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-dfbfb5fd4fadf1a8] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:53:23 uh that can't be it either 08:54:32 an fd handler blocking can cause such a thing 08:55:35 ok so what's the terminology if this happens, and another event will be executed? 08:56:23 Davse_Ba1se [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 08:56:52 It's what I meant above with "interrupted", to pass over execution 08:56:59 -!- Davse_Ba1se [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 08:57:41 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:57:59 a handler that does I/O may invoke serve-event recursively. "Enters a recursive event loop"? 08:58:08 s/recursive/nested/ 08:58:13 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:00:03 I fail to grasp how slime can use serve-event and not break horribly on a regular basis 09:01:06 it does use serve-event 09:01:25 there is :fd-handler 09:02:11 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:02:15 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:29 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-234-188.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 09:02:34 Sure. But I fail to see how it can reliably work 09:02:47 it seems to work reliably here 09:02:49 tcr: heisenbugs. try not to notice the many cases where things can go wrong (: 09:03:10 err, no. schroedingbugs.. 09:03:16 I always mistake one for the other 09:03:33 You mean they'll only manifest itself when you're looking on them? 09:03:41 s/itself/themselves/ 09:04:02 they will fall one way or another once you notice them, yeah (: 09:04:12 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:04:26 and according to your assessment, it will be in the direction of total failure (: 09:04:45 that wouldn't be desirable for serve-event users (: 09:05:03 Well, when you try to use slime with cmucl, it'll land you in the SWANK package and the reason for that is such a failure 09:06:14 (although cmucl does not use :fd-handler but :sigio, i.e. signals, which expectingly is error prone, but I wondered about serve-event) 09:06:37 slime & serve-event works fine in sbcl 09:06:54 its with :spawn that they messed the whole thing 09:07:02 I'm sorry? 09:07:04 ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 09:07:25 as i said slime takes over the event loop 09:08:12 it's not slime's fault. Threads and serve-event are not a bulletproof combination. 09:08:28 it is slime's fault because they implemented it to do exactly that 09:08:31 Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.100.6] has joined #lisp 09:08:37 heck, serve-event alone is not a bullet proof combination :-) 09:08:39 really? 09:08:43 (by not calling serve-event at all) 09:09:35 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:09:39 assuming i register some handlers, the callbacks will never get called unless i call serve-event myself 09:09:45 or call something else that calls serve-event 09:09:49 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 09:10:01 That's what I'd expect 09:10:55 does this make sense to you ? 09:11:11 when slime is idle it should call serve-event 09:11:15 not block on a mutex 09:11:19 (like it currently does) 09:12:10 Why should it play your application's event-loop? 09:12:31 tcr: what it shouldn't do is change the semantics of the lisp event loop 09:12:46 i expect my handlers to get called in the slime repl 09:12:53 like they would get called in the normal repl 09:13:15 that's a fair thing to expect, it's harder for slime to comply 09:13:40 some note in the documentation would be great 09:14:27 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-5-242.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:08 xristos: what do you use serve-event for? 09:15:39 sockets mostly 09:16:07 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:17:39 yeah, that's about the only thing that works. 09:18:25 with threads, serve-event is very broken even without slime 09:18:36 in what way 09:18:44 every thread gets its own 'loop' 09:18:55 mega1: do you have any insights on the windows PA lossage? 09:18:57 with no fd sharing, I guess. 09:19:31 Isn't serve-event used for io in fd-streams? 09:19:53 I wonder why xristos' handlers aren't run when Swank polls its socket 09:20:57 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6D179.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:18 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:21:22 tcr: there is one serve-event per thread 09:21:45 ok 09:21:52 in the thread where swank polls its socket he may have 0 handlers 09:22:04 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-167-82.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:05 right 09:22:10 *tcr* afk 09:22:31 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:23:32 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.132.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:24:13 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-188.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:24:46 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has joined #lisp 09:26:18 -!- Modius [n=Modius@99.179.100.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:26:29 nikodemus: pseudo_atomic_atomic 1 means that the interrupted bit is set but it's not in pseudo atomic. 09:26:37 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-234.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:07 whoever set the bit, it should have been handled before entering the new pseudo atomic section 09:28:43 This being windows with no signals it's most likely allocation that sets the interrupted bit. 09:29:21 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:27 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-167-82.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 09:31:43 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.100.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:33:27 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 09:34:06 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:34:41 sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has joined #lisp 09:34:57 what's the syntax for literals like #\STX within a string? 09:37:19 I rarely do it myself but writing a useful macro always makes me happy in the pants. 09:37:41 sohum: there is none. but cl-interpol might help you 09:38:25 michaelw: oh hey that's cool 09:38:28 thankee 09:38:58 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:42:19 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:42:43 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181129202.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:43:20 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:14 -!- kuwabara [n=kuwabara@84.14.121.138] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 09:44:50 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 09:45:28 Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.97.90] has joined #lisp 09:46:34 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.140.244] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:54:27 luis [n=user@r42.eu] has joined #lisp 09:54:45 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-199-191.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:55:39 rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-109.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:56:18 Good morning! 09:56:30 hello luis 09:56:50 What's new? 09:59:28 study, so I have no idea what makes the world spin :) 09:59:55 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:15 Not studying physics then, I hope. 10:02:19 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-145.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:34 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-234.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:02:39 currently: machine learning 10:05:08 g0wda [n=shashi@61.1.139.97] has joined #lisp 10:07:30 hi all.... I'm kinda new to programming someone suggested that i learn lisp just for fun and to enhance my outlook about programming practices... how right were they? I've already learnt the toppings of python and intermediate level PHP, the language of ametures :)... 10:09:05 heya 10:09:41 g0wda: I support it, and I'm going to try to do the same thing with someone I know :) 10:10:13 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-164-15.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:36 g0wda: sadly, I know of no limited layer above CL which allows people new to programming to get into it straight away (not that most other languages have that). 10:11:10 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:11:12 @madnificent thank you :) but how will i benifit if i do learn it...? can you suggest the best (according to you) starter's guide u know or the one you started with? 10:11:29 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 10:11:41 you'll benefit by knowing more than you started out knowing 10:11:41 Xof, memo from nikodemus: when you have a moment, can you check that 1.0.28.53 doesn't break some cross-compiler assumption that i failed to notice -- i can fix the issue by hacking the cold fops in genesis as well, but this seemed like the simpler option 10:11:56 g0wda: I'm not the man to give you the best resources (but others here in #lisp will give you good advice on that!). 10:12:52 the question still stands.... thanks madnificent :) 10:13:05 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-119-187.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 10:13:21 g0wda: on the benefits side: you'll probably learn to think more abstract (in any language). Besides that, you'll grow wildly frustrated in the strange decisions some languages made and the cruel limitations that came from it 10:13:59 g0wda: for slow responses on programming questions about lisp, you may join #cl-gardeners 10:14:08 -!- aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:14:14 growing wildly frustrated: a selling point? 10:14:27 nikodemus: the cross-type changes look ok to me 10:14:41 the seqtran changes make my eyes hurt 10:14:42 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 10:14:45 but that's not really your fault 10:14:50 oh... that should put a beginner in the right track of appreciating technologies... 10:15:14 Lisp, the supermodel ex-girlfriend. 10:15:44 hefner: honesty counts on my behalf... I'm happy to know lisp, but from time to time, whished I didn't see it (just because I'm forced to code in java) 10:15:46 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-145.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:15:54 -!- meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 10:16:14 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-133-25.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:15 g0wda: it would probably be the best place to get an overview of what can be done in programming languages now and what will be done in them in the next 10 years or so 10:16:36 the unambitious ones, anyway. 10:16:49 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-12558.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 10:17:02 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.97.90] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:17:15 g0wda: besides lisp being one of the oldest languages around, Common Lisp provides you with features other languages don't have. Languages tend to evolve in the direction of what lisp offers, so its basically a head-start on what others will learn in the future 10:17:32 madnificent I don't plan on learning java... :) and by "the best place" do u mean #cl-gardeners? 10:17:35 hefner: so that's like 98% of them? All thriving on their new algol-like syntax? 10:17:48 in the future, every language will have lisp-style pathnames! 10:18:02 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:18:15 in ten years, maybe we'll have figured out unicode. 10:18:18 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-164-15.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 10:18:29 g0wda: no, lisp... cl-gardeners can be handy, as they don't mind dull questions as much (#lisp is very friendly too, but if they refer to a document, you're bound to read it before asking many more questions) 10:18:36 rsynnott: ? 10:18:39 *hefner* is using lisp for very glamorous tasks this morning.. reading text files and calculating mean square errors. 10:19:35 g0wda: in short: yes, you really should learn it. I have (and many others here) learned many other languages before ending up here... there's a reason why people keep using lisp 10:19:43 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 10:20:17 there's a reason other languages are evolving and lisp isn't ;) 10:20:19 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 10:20:25 hefner: it'd be nice to have some more shell-like tools in CL... it is a very nice language to write scripts in too, I just tend to miss the 'integration' bash offers 10:20:31 madnificent: this idea that other languages take lisp's features 10:20:40 that is one that I suspect they will NOT want to take :) 10:20:58 i'm increasingly sure we should be able to special case hairy inline lambdas, and generate the equivalent simple lambda directly in most cases 10:20:59 there are more sophisticated languages in some respects, but they're missing the point, like a throwback to running software from rom cartridges. 10:21:02 rsynnott: LoL, fair enough :P 10:21:10 guaqua: do you mean it's already at its best? 10:21:58 g0wda: well, no 10:22:30 g0wda: but it's way ahead of the other major languages in expressive power 10:22:47 ideas flow from lisp to other languages, rarely the other way around 10:22:51 it's also a lot of fun, except for the bits you're not supposed to use 10:22:59 is there a canonical way to do string-keyed hash tables? 10:23:03 g0wda: if there's a cool feature (say: lazy evaluation) then either lisp has it built-in (in this case it doesn't) or someone can (and in many cases has written) write a library for it that does just that. Most (that means every language your avarage programming friend knows) don't allow that kind of extension of the language. 10:23:41 madnificent: does your average programming friend know ruby? 10:23:51 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-133-25.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:52 g0wda: allowing lisp to evolve by allowing the users of the language to extend it in ways impossible in other languages, makes it evolve continuously 10:24:00 *rsynnott* hadn't thought to average my programming friends 10:24:06 should I take a mean or a median? 10:24:25 rsynnott: probably whatever makes you look best 10:24:30 hefner: mine does... but lazy evaluation in ruby? it's possible, but still not in the same way. (and take symbols to work with, in ruby you'd basically be rewriting lisp) 10:24:34 Qsource: :test 'equal. 10:25:26 rsynnott: you should take the CL-stat and see which ones are < .7 10:25:34 pkhuong: right.. clearly i'm blind. thanks. 10:26:26 now another question, related to g0wda's inquiry: what books would be advised. I'm bound to work with someone in the summer holidays and I'm thinking of learning him lisp, instead of ruby or anything of the likes to finish our programming task 10:27:24 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-85-194.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 10:27:32 madnificent: CLTL2 and Keene and perhaps PCL ought to be enough? 10:28:09 hypno: my guy knows virtually nothing... he knows PHP and Visual Basic (admittedly, he's a wizkid in that last language) 10:28:32 I am there to teach him whatever he needs to know. I'm not an expert either though 10:28:38 meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:15 tcr: aroundp 10:29:55 hypno: perhaps CLTL2 is a good start, I simply wonder if he'll run scared 10:30:01 aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has joined #lisp 10:32:10 actually the one who suggested wasn't an average programmer, I do know a li'l bit of ruby, and actually I read this suggestion somewhere on the internet... to be precice in a document by Eric S Raymond, the author of "A breif history of hackerdom" and the cathedral and the bazaar 10:32:41 g0wda: ah yes, he indeed advises to learn it as to become a better programmer 10:32:57 beware Eric S Raymond :P 10:33:08 g0wda: another motivational text was the one of paul graham, when discussing why they made viaweb use lisp 10:33:43 Are there common names for: a) swap the real and imaginary components of a complex or b) negate the real component of a complex? 10:33:44 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-133-25.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:33:46 I've read an essay by paul graham... great hackers :) 10:34:04 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-133-25.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:26 oh and c) take a real and multiply it by #c(1 1)? 10:34:38 madnificent: well, i've yet to find a "production common lisp code"-book, so i guess you would have to chip in and show some really neat and cool things yourself. hype and 10-minutes hacks seems to the tuned in wavelength for todays young punks. 10:35:10 hypno: more screencasts! 10:35:31 I like ten minute hacks. Production infrastructure comes and goes. Blog posts about ten minute hacks are forever! 10:35:44 hefner: very true :> 10:37:00 granted my ten minute hacks usually take a few hours, but some day I'll get the hang of it. 10:38:23 hefner: still, blog post about it :D 10:40:08 HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:40:37 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-133-25.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:41:29 -!- meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:41:36 Corun [n=Corun@94-194-29-31.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:42:04 meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:37 i'm still seeing this; http://groups.google.com/group/sbcl-devel/browse_frm/thread/ce1aa6e25fc209e2/ .. maybe i should post something on the sbcl launchpad page? 10:43:07 lnostdal: it's a completely ancient problem 10:43:20 I'd be surprised if it hasn't been logged anywhere already 10:43:39 -!- _vikrant_ [n=user@125.16.223.98] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:44:04 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:44:11 _vikrant_ [n=user@125.16.223.98] has joined #lisp 10:45:07 ok, i'm not able to find any mention on it in BUGS or on the launchpad page .. maybe it isn't a bug 10:45:14 of it* 10:45:48 -!- _vikrant_ [n=user@125.16.223.98] has quit [Client Quit] 10:45:57 nikodemus: I'm cooking. What's up? 10:46:22 -!- dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit ["Be back later"] 10:46:39 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181129202.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Success] 10:48:04 -!- anekos is now known as A_nekos 10:51:17 kenjin__ [n=kenjin@163.152.180.242] has joined #lisp 10:51:18 -!- kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.180.242] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:51:48 -!- slacks21 [n=ckuttruf@ip68-101-220-87.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:53:56 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.239.38] has joined #lisp 10:54:45 Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has joined #lisp 10:55:06 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:55:36 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-132-238.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:36 -!- Corun [n=Corun@94-194-29-31.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving..."] 10:56:48 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-141-5.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:00:48 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has joined #lisp 11:02:22 paw [n=user@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:02:22 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 11:02:35 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181129202.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:04:11 elias` [n=me@resnet-pat-254.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:04:30 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e70c883.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:05:55 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-133-25.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:07:38 mega1 [n=mega@53d827df.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:08:23 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:10:07 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-7f4c8bd1e8e6a858] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:12:09 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-188.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:14:06 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-71.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:18 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 11:16:35 -!- prip [n=_prip@host134-123-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:17:57 How come the ops in #lisp always wave their @ around ? Most other channel ops tend to only get their @ out when someone's being naughty. 11:18:13 dwave [n=ask@195.159.75.82] has joined #lisp 11:19:08 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-12558.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:19:38 froog [n=user@c8B7747C1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 11:19:43 bob_f: too many nasty people visit this channel, so the ops get tired of opping/deopping 11:19:45 bob_f: What does it mean for someone to have his or her @ out? 11:20:33 jdz: Oh. Maybe you should put "no nasty people" in the topic. :) 11:20:53 spiaggia: Normal IRC clients represent that a user is op'ed by putting a @ symbol by their nick. 11:21:04 bob_f: nasty people would interpret that as "there are no nasty people in the channel" and come swarming 11:21:05 bob_f: So ERC is not normal? 11:21:18 spiaggia: Apparently not. :) 11:21:24 prip [n=_prip@host134-123-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:21:50 -!- g0wda [n=shashi@61.1.139.97] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:22:52 *spiaggia* wonders whether the definition of "normal IRC client" is "one that puts a @ by the nick of an op'ed user". 11:23:08 i think it's not about being normal. it's about retaining historical baggage 11:23:16 at least i think so 11:23:43 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 11:23:48 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 11:23:48 *spiaggia* started using IRC too recently to know about that much history. 11:24:45 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-132-238.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:26:19 http://paste.lisp.org/display/80426 .. compile-file on that fails when the MAKE-LOAD-FORM is commented out .. maybe it should be added to SBCL? 11:27:56 -!- wlr [n=walt@65.96.92.150] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:28:09 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:30:52 jimi_hendrix [n=user@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #lisp 11:33:29 i keep getting this error when i try to run to lisp dump i made with save-lisp-and-die: The value # 11:33:29 is not of type 11:33:29 (SIGNED-BYTE 32). 11:33:29 11:33:30 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 11:33:42 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-9366.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 11:35:30 -!- jimi_hendrix [n=user@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Client Quit] 11:36:19 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:37:34 -!- kenjin__ [n=kenjin@163.152.180.242] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 11:39:49 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:42:33 Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-61-204.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:46:19 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 11:46:30 minion: memo for jimi_hendrix: up to 1.0.28.43 the :TOPLEVEL function given to save-lisp-and-die should never return -- if it does, it's return value will accidentally be used as the exit code. i'm guessing you are returning a thread object from the by accident 11:46:30 Remembered. I'll tell jimi_hendrix when he/she/it next speaks. 11:46:41 ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has joined #lisp 11:47:37 Hmm, Series Expansion is uttering more ignorant falsehoods per message than any other I have seen. 11:47:38 minion: memo for jimi_hendrix: either put (quit) as the end of your toplevel function, or get a bleeding edge sbcl. ... assuming my guess as to the cause was correct, that is. backtrace is your friend 11:47:39 Remembered. I'll tell jimi_hendrix when he/she/it next speaks. 11:48:19 g0wda [n=shashi@61.1.139.155] has joined #lisp 11:49:14 nikodemus: I'm here now 11:49:29 i'm here too 11:50:50 is there a way to tell slime/emacs to split buffers along the longer axis when it opens a new buffer? 11:50:54 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:51:08 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-71.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:13 longer axis? 11:51:46 that is, if the buffer being split is wide split it vertically (like with C-x 3), and if it is tall split it horizontally (like with C-x 2) 11:52:10 Sure there is, but I do not know off-hand. You have to browse the info pages around display-buffer, perhaps pop-up-buffer 11:52:20 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:37 and "sure there is" may mean that you have to replace and write your own "display-buffer" 11:52:39 nikodemus: It's not the buffer being split; it's the window. 11:52:48 ok 11:53:13 so i need to poke at emacs, not slime to figure this one out. 11:53:28 In general yes. 11:54:16 perhaps michaelw has something on that line, I think he goes with a customized display-buffer 11:54:36 nikodemus: Can you reproduce the (funcall (lambda ...)) thing on x32? 11:54:41 second question: it it intentional that C-d C-d no longer moves focus to the description buffer? 11:54:52 tcr: i tried, but could not yet 11:55:08 i'll time travel a bit to the same version where you saw it 11:55:30 what are your optimization settings? (describe-compiler-policy) 11:55:36 nikodemus: Well, does (defmacro mylambda (arglist &body body) `#'(lambda ,arglist ,@body)) and then (funcall (mylambda ...)) does inlining? 11:55:54 nikodemus: Default, i.e. everything being 1 11:58:27 emacs hangs some times when editing lisp files... is this a known problem? 11:58:37 nikodemus pasted "looks good to me" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80427 11:58:41 meingbg: Yes. Make sure you're on slime HEAD 11:59:02 rstandy` [n=rastandy@net-93-144-64-40.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 11:59:05 tcr: ? 11:59:29 nikodemus: Ok, I'll try with sbcl's latest revision 12:01:00 -!- g0wda [n=shashi@61.1.139.155] has left #lisp 12:01:52 meingbg: Update your Slime version. I worked on fontification of forms suppressed my reader-conditionals the last week, and there were issuing causing Emacs to go into infinite loops 12:03:40 Jasko3 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:03:53 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:04:15 tcr: OK, I'll update slime. Thanks for working on that! 12:06:12 nikodemus: To your second question: Yes, it is. 12:07:11 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-95408e852c40f5bc] has left #lisp 12:07:46 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-85-194.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:08:14 huh .. aren't initforms for defstruct slots evaled at construction time .. i might be on drugs or something here x) 12:09:02 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-71.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:09:48 "If a slot is not initialized in this way, it is initialized by evaluating slot-initform in the slot description at the time the constructor function is called." 12:10:08 tcr: if i want to customize that for myself, where should i look (moving the focus, that is) 12:10:34 nikodemus: Well why do you want it? 12:11:33 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d827df.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:12:30 for copying text, for having q work immediately instead of having to use winner-undo, for consistency: i expect focus to jump to the new buffer, so i'm thrown when it isn't 12:13:40 Hm judging from the code I'd have judged it is selected, something's fishy 12:13:43 i use it quite a lot, and 99% of the time i either close it after a couple of seconds, and the 1% of the time i want to scroll it -- so i pretty much always end up moving the focus there manually 12:14:08 Well, I use C-c C-d d when I want to know about how to use it, so I want the buffer to be open while I type 12:14:26 and I just use C-x 1 to get rid of it 12:15:18 Of course that C-x 1 works for me so well is because I use frames, not multiple windows in the same frame 12:15:55 On a related note, I'm going to work on hyperdoc now. 12:16:51 -!- dwave [n=ask@195.159.75.82] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:18:01 well, i found the place to fix it for myself 12:18:19 -!- meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:18:52 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:57 one more T to the popup spec in SLIME-SHOW-DESCRIPTION 12:20:44 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 12:22:04 binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has joined #lisp 12:24:20 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:24:34 Good afternoon. 12:26:35 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:30:09 hm .. how is the car of +id-counter+ considered constant data here: (defconstant +id-counter+ (cons 0 nil)) ? is it not the cons-structure which is the constant; not the contents of it? 12:30:45 (incf (car +id-counter+)) ---> "Destructive function ... called on constant data" 12:30:51 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:08 nikodemus: (lambda ...)'s still not inlined on current git head 12:31:20 i don't know what to say 12:31:23 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:31:50 can you try in the terminal with --no-userinit --no-sysinit? 12:32:29 will i burn in hell if i add slime-description-autofocus variable, defaulting to nil (current behaviour?) 12:33:05 Ok it works in the terminal 12:33:25 and if you leave out --no-userinit and --no-sysinit? 12:33:46 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:34:07 It does not work in the terminal, that is: 12:34:15 it works with COMPILE, but not COMPILE-FILE 12:34:35 ah, now we're cooking 12:34:53 C-c C-c in Slime is based on compile-file'ing a temporary file 12:35:00 -!- froog [n=user@c8B7747C1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:39:00 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:39:35 dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 12:40:03 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:40:29 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:41:35 pokey19 [n=dmg@DC7E0.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 12:42:29 Hi... Does common lisp have a command to send commands to the system (im using a unix os)...? E.g., system(); in C ? 12:42:50 and what is the best reference to use for common lisp? 12:42:51 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:42:53 (online0 12:42:55 ) 12:43:59 pokey19: clhs 12:44:03 no standard way 12:44:05 clhs describe 12:44:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_descri.htm 12:44:22 pokey19: you can /msg specbot clhs describe to get it privately. 12:44:36 pokey19: http://common-lisp.net/project/trivial-shell/ 12:44:36 each implementation provides means of communicating with OS 12:44:51 thanks for those. 12:44:57 http://paste.lisp.org/display/80426#1 .. this is odd .. CLISP has different behavior 12:45:05 To send commands to the system, there are implementation dependant functions, usually you can find them with (apropos "SHELL") or (apropos "RUN") 12:45:09 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087A5D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:34 lnostdal: How about reading up on DEFCONSTANT? 12:46:57 yeah, maybe i should grep for "implementation dependent" or something (?) 12:47:05 changing anything constant makes baby offler cry 12:47:27 lnostdal: No, you should read the whole page 12:47:30 tcr: i can't go to ELS :/ 12:48:09 too much work to do here. i'm on the stustaculum in munich for the next few days, but i have to work on my diploma thesis after that. 12:48:29 ok, the CLISP guys haven't read the DEFCONSTANT page then, i guess 12:48:35 is the way Lisp Works operates - by constantly evaluating functions, rather than taking a file of text and then interpreting / compiling into an executable - a property of how Lisp languages work, or the way the Lisp Works program works? 12:48:54 ... load vs. compile .. i know this already 12:49:03 Hun: Nice when will it be again? 12:49:22 from wednesday to saturday in freimann 12:49:29 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-141-5.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 12:49:58 i'll be there from wednesday on, maybe through friday :) 12:52:08 lukego [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has joined #lisp 12:52:16 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:52:40 tcr, ok, i give up .. i can't see how this is expected behavior .. and i got to eat .. back in a sec. 12:53:16 mvillene1ve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-119-58.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:55:32 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:59:08 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:00:43 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:01:34 ljosa [n=ljosa@gm3b6-dd5.broad.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 13:01:43 -!- dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:03:17 -!- pokey19 [n=dmg@DC7E0.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [] 13:04:11 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-155-65.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:04:18 -!- mvillene1ve is now known as mvilleneuve 13:04:47 Davidbrcz [n=david@193.52.24.125] has joined #lisp 13:06:51 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:52 meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:54 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:41 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:08:51 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@193.52.24.125] has quit [Client Quit] 13:09:46 lnostdal: it is intended behaviour in file compiled code, because a reference to a constant in file is the same as reference to the literal object it stores 13:10:11 clhs: 3.2.4 13:10:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_bd.htm 13:11:00 lnostdal: outside file compilation that's a bug, i think. it would actually hope that we're allowed to do that outside file compilation, but i think not 13:11:10 mega1 [n=mega@3e44afb0.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:16:30 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 13:17:37 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:18:31 ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has joined #lisp 13:18:33 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 13:20:45 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2EEB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:05 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2D90E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:21:07 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 13:21:11 dcrawford_ [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:16 -!- dcrawford_ [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 13:21:24 dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:28 froog [n=user@c8B7747C1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 13:24:19 but .. uh, i'm not using or referring to a literal at all .. "CONS creates a fresh cons" 13:24:36 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-250-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:11 ..and changing the content of that cons does not change the cons (?) ... 13:25:31 if i had said (defconstant +test+ '(1 2)) it'd make sense 13:26:27 attila_lendvai ? 13:27:47 lnostdal: (defconstant +test+ (cons 1 2)) does not portably work because it does not fullfill the constraints that DEFCONSTANT imposes for conforming programs. 13:28:34 The consequences are undefined [...] if the value is not eql to the value of initial-value. 13:28:55 kami-: hi 13:29:05 hello attila_lendvai 13:29:12 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-30-115.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:29:19 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:29:30 is copy-persistent-instance suitable for creating a shallow copy of an object? 13:29:45 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-130-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:29:46 but the value _is_ EQL, tcr 13:30:05 lnostdal: Oh sorry I pasted the wrong one, I meant to paste the last paragraph 13:30:11 ..EQL doesn't do deep checking 13:30:18 ok 13:30:26 lnostdal: the expression may be evaluated at compile-time, load-time, or both, and it must always evaluate to the same value 13:30:53 If (cons 1 2) is evaluated both at compile-time, and load-time the two values are not EQL 13:31:08 tcr, i _know_ this .. that is _not_ what i'm talking about .. :P 13:31:12 kami-: dunno, looking at the code it seems like a persistent shallow copy 13:31:48 attila_lendvai: I /think/ it worked until I added a timestamp slot. Do I have to do sth special to make it work for a timestamp, too? 13:31:57 thomas__ [n=thomas@41-071.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:32:25 attila_lendvai: error "don't know how to copy @1000-01-01T02:00:00.000000+02:00" 13:32:47 -!- A_nekos is now known as awayekos 13:33:13 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 13:33:32 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has quit [] 13:33:33 lnostdal: did you see what i said? 13:33:43 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 13:33:55 lnostdal: The whole point of defconstant is for the compiler to coalesce the values 13:33:57 in the repl it should not do that, but put same forms into a file, and the warning is allowed and expected 13:34:04 nikodemus, yeah, i'm trying to parse it 13:34:10 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 13:34:27 ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 13:34:59 -!- binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:35:12 lnostdal: in compiled files the compiler is allowed to consider +foo+ the mean ' -- meaning it can create copies 13:36:20 ok, "coalesce values" .. i see .. well, ok .. the new sb-ext:defglobal thing will do then .. i do feel that something content on a "top-level basis" (not deep copy'ish) is missing though 13:36:30 constant* 13:36:57 ..i.e., a defconstant-type thing where only the top-level "pointer" should be considered constant 13:37:11 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-152-38.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:37:23 one of the points of DEFCONSTANT is that if you have multiple constants which are all similar, the compiler is allowed to use just a single object to represent them all 13:37:50 -!- CrazyEddy [n=jestings@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:38:16 yes, that is nice .. quite strong though 13:38:32 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:06 (i consider the restriction of not being allowed to do this outside file compilation a spec problem -- it buys nothing of value, but increases the number of subtle differences between COMPILE and COMPILE-FILE) 13:40:44 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:43:11 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 13:43:31 -!- arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:43:44 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:44:32 hello 13:44:39 pmatos [n=pmatos@92.24.57.182] has joined #lisp 13:45:15 -!- kanzure- [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 13:50:19 -!- pmatos [n=pmatos@92.24.57.182] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:52:54 alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:55 frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:53:47 nikodemus: ping 13:54:33 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 13:57:46 pong 13:57:51 -!- mqt [n=tran@caledonia.rh.rit.edu] has left #lisp 13:57:53 mqt [n=tran@caledonia.rh.rit.edu] has joined #lisp 14:00:03 fe[nl]ix annotated #79633 "now with &key element-type" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79633#7 14:00:39 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:40 -!- ljosa [n=ljosa@gm3b6-dd5.broad.mit.edu] has left #lisp 14:01:12 nikodemus: is 79633#7 correct ? 14:03:32 -!- thomas__ [n=thomas@41-071.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:05:10 kami-: you can define your own copy protocol to implement copy semantics you need. see persistence/copy.lisp for examples 14:05:20 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:05:27 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 14:05:28 kami-: copy-protocols can "inherit" from each other 14:05:53 binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has joined #lisp 14:06:08 attila_lendvai: that's a nice feature. do you have something built in for generating unique ids? 14:06:57 kami-: no (except the id generation infrastructure used for persistent-object id generation) 14:07:28 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:08:36 fe[nl]ix: looks good at a glance at least 14:08:43 attila_lendvai: but it would probably be no problem if I used the oid as a unique identifier after the instance has been persisted. 14:09:42 nikodemus: is the first assertion in m-s-v correct ? 14:10:13 -!- frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:10:41 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:11:10 kami-: the iod is a unique id for each persistent-object that encodes it's type and an integer representing its identity. how you use it is up to you until you break the rules... 14:11:21 s/it's/its/ 14:12:22 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:12:40 -!- jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:12:44 -!- binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:12:57 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 14:13:32 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 14:14:10 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:14:24 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 14:14:29 attila_lendvai: thank you. will try. 14:18:47 -!- ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:18:48 -!- roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 14:19:56 fe[nl]ix: oops, nope 14:20:11 you want to first normalize the element type with array-upraded-element-type 14:20:22 and if that turns out to be T you need to say "no go" 14:20:53 nikodemus: that's what vector-widetag-and-n-bits does 14:20:58 metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:01 oh, i missed that -- i thought it was a direct call to the sbcl routine 14:22:21 but be prepared for this code to break horribly 14:22:47 well, it already broke 14:22:55 ? 14:23:12 creating an array with :element-type 'base-char drops me into ldb reliably 14:23:14 this is the sort of internals that may change without even so much as a "minor incompatible change" notice 14:24:34 no problem, I can reject characters if it can't be done 14:24:47 *character types 14:27:04 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:27 fe[nl]ix: you're allocating too little memory: you're computing the size in words 14:32:22 cpape [n=user@host16084.pik-potsdam.de] has joined #lisp 14:32:32 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:38 G'morning all. 14:32:51 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:32:55 (let* ((allocation-size (* sb-vm:n-word-bytes ...)) ...) ...) and it should be less broken :) 14:35:21 um, i seem to have forgotten the password to my windows box 14:35:32 It isn't Alt-F4 ? 14:36:04 (I know that actually only works on the 9x series, but still...) 14:36:43 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:41:01 -!- Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-61-204.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["« La POO c'est bien beau, mais en C au moins on va droit au but. »"] 14:41:24 nikodemus: How reasonable would it be to add a transform for make-array that upgrades any given element type, even if the call wouldn't normally be inlined? 14:41:46 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has quit ["leaving"] 14:42:34 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:53 nyef: i'm not sure i follow 14:43:38 The latin-9 bug is caused by something wierd with the type system during cold-init causing array type upgrading to break. 14:44:09 We can push the effects to be subtler by having the compiler do the upgrading and specifying the upgraded type in the full-call. 14:44:32 -!- paw [n=user@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:44:42 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp123.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 14:44:45 (Although, your latest work might also mask the bug. I'm doing a build now so that I can check.) 14:44:51 Hrm. 14:45:32 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:45:49 -!- Jasko3 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:46:11 i think my work is actually likely to mask the bug, since the creation should now be open coded 14:46:19 And every time I try to check out my fork on repo.or.cz I get a message about remote HEAD referring to a nonexistent ref. 14:46:30 Yeah, I figured it might, which is why I'm checking. 14:46:58 add declare MAKE-ARRAY NOTINLINE and it should re-appear :) 14:47:21 True. But as this is a cold-load only bug, I'm not bothered so long as the build doesn't break. 14:48:18 -!- nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:49:00 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:19 -!- kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:51:17 nyef: push a master branch and the message will go away (or change HEAD to some existing branch if you can) 14:53:16 cracki [n=cracki@43-053.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:53:26 *nikodemus* hacks into his laptop 14:53:39 success! thank god for open source... 14:53:42 I see no branches here. 14:54:21 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:54:34 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 14:54:51 ... latin-9 bug: not fixed. 14:55:02 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 14:55:17 git push master:master # should make things better 14:55:40 there's also http://common-lisp.net/gitweb now 14:55:48 gitweb+git-daemon support on c-l.net 14:56:25 fe[nl]ix: True, but repo.or.cz already has an SBCL tree and some forked trees. If I don't get this working soon, though, I'll use clnet. 14:58:16 nikodemus: I get the impression that that should be done from my existing local sbcl tree, is that right? 14:58:52 yes 14:59:24 fe[nl]ix: What's with that ASDF0 package magic when I load cffi? 14:59:37 -!- cracki [n=cracki@43-053.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 14:59:51 the syntax is "git push :" 15:01:46 Yeah, looked at the manual page, which is why I figured it likely had to be run from an existing tree. 15:02:26 is there some standard way to get multiple items out of a loop, and make one big flat list out of it? I want to get two values out of my loop (so I'd need to remove one level of nesting) 15:02:42 tcr: I don't know. maybe ASDF loads each .asd file into a fresh package(that uses :asdf) 15:02:44 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-59-19.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:02:47 madnificent: (loop ... append (loop ...)) 15:03:09 shmho` [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 15:03:35 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:03:35 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:03:35 -!- metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:03:35 -!- dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:03:35 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:03:35 -!- drforr [n=drforr@pool-173-55-19-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:03:35 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:03:35 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:03:40 tcr: the two values are coming from the same loop (thus the loop now has collect (list a b) for instance) (but I think I know where to search now) 15:04:16 metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:16 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 15:04:16 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:16 dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 15:04:16 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 15:04:16 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 15:04:16 drforr [n=drforr@pool-173-55-19-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:16 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 15:04:21 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 15:05:17 nyef: you can also do git push if the names are the same 15:05:23 Hun pasted "Why does SBCL only open-code the first one?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80432 15:06:12 Hun: At a guess, because local functions aren't inlined by default? 15:06:49 I wonder how much longer it will take in order to remember all these tiny parts :) thanks tcr 15:06:50 in this case, every argument is constant. Can't sbcl infer that it would be useful here? 15:07:21 Hun: See if a (declare (inliine decode-arg)) helps. If so, then apparently not. 15:07:58 not really. it now calls ash instead of ldb 15:08:43 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:08:50 Greetings. 15:09:44 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:43 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:40 baetis-fly [n=baetis-f@pool-71-175-5-81.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:15 I asked in #emacs, but no response. And since C-( is a paredit command, I figured I'd ask here: Anyone have any problems getting putty to send this key combo? I can't figure it out. 15:13:20 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-61-204.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:13:36 Corun [n=Corun@94-194-29-31.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:14:16 baetis-fly: That's probably better addressed in a putty related channel. That's probably why it wasn't answered. My use with putty is very limited. 15:14:58 tmh: perhaps. but if anyone has run into issue with C-(, I'd think it would be fellow lispers. Thanks anyway, I'll look around. 15:15:15 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:15:30 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 15:15:34 desu pasted "add-list" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80435 15:15:52 I'm having trouble some with "cons"... 15:16:08 I think it might have something to do with the ordering of the parameters... 15:16:21 Can someone suggest an alternative method of doing this? 15:17:14 -!- baetis-fly [n=baetis-f@pool-71-175-5-81.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 15:17:28 attila_lendvai: can a compute-as slot contain a (select ...) statement? 15:18:01 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp123.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 15:18:09 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@24-198.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Heap Exhausted"] 15:18:30 desu: why not (defun add (list val) (mapcar (lambda (x) (+ x val)) list)) ? 15:18:31 desu: (defun add (L1 n) (mapcar (lambda (x) (+ x n)) L1)) 15:18:32 desu: look into append, and it looks like you should get more familiar with list structure; make a diagram (: 15:18:45 :D 15:18:51 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:19:45 ah, thanks, fe[nl]ix, nyef and antifuchs! 15:20:29 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 15:21:13 desu: As for your actual attempt, where you went wrong is that if you're going to try to construct a list non-destructively, you have to start at the tail and work your way to the head. 15:21:22 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:21:53 kami-: if you make sure that there's a valid transaction... it should work 15:22:17 -!- nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:22:28 yango_ [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 15:22:49 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:00 Ugh. 15:23:24 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:23:27 Stupid local network. 15:23:47 The DHCP server gave me an IP that someone else is using, and won't give me another one. 15:24:09 nyef: i'd thought about that initially, but i wanted to try something using tail recursion :) 15:24:36 nyef: change your MAC, that usually does it 15:24:53 fe[nl]ix: Bloody nuisance however I slice it. 15:24:59 or switch to a better DHCP server :P 15:25:44 desu: It's not my dhcp server. And this is an office, thus I don't get to switch until this job is over. 15:26:01 oh :( 15:26:36 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["zzz"] 15:26:40 antifuchs: boink! marks! 15:26:49 *nikodemus* wants :) 15:26:49 nyef: nmap + manual settings 15:27:15 run a ping scan, no scanning of ports, and it shouldn't wake up any IDS 15:27:30 May not be a good idea to run nmap in your corporate environment 15:27:44 tcr: that's why I said ping scan :) 15:28:44 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:28:45 or in case of nmap, TCP Connect. SYN might get picked by some more intrepid IDSes 15:29:42 Perhaps there's an IDS installed on every box, looking at process names :P 15:30:02 use port 5353, should hide scan under pretense of mdns requests 15:30:30 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:30:55 *p_l* used nmap to find printers in his high school and then used school's good laser printers from home :D 15:30:58 milanj [n=milan@79.101.196.187] has joined #lisp 15:31:14 if you're on a windows network a stealth scan won't be picked up. 15:31:27 unless they have a very good IDS system on their lan. 15:31:38 nmap -sS 15:32:26 yeah. And limit port range - lack of multiple port scans will help hiding it 15:33:13 if you're on a mixed *nix/windows network, they may be keeping very close watch, though. 15:33:18 you can also do an ARP scan, calling arping 15:33:33 -!- dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit [] 15:33:36 At my employer running a port-scan through the network is reason for a cease and desist letter 15:34:00 at my previous employer I'd need a *really* good alibi :P 15:34:56 otoh, we had well working network, so if nmap was to be used, it was used for security testing and debugging :-) 15:35:17 -!- shmho` [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:35:50 if dhcp is handing out a duplicate, then somebody is manually assigning an address, or they have a static assignment for a machine with an identical mac address. 15:36:46 What happened to calling the IT department? 15:36:46 dysinger [n=tim@71.216.13.30] has joined #lisp 15:37:08 it's victoria day in the commonwealth. 15:37:12 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-59-19.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:37:53 So why is nyef working? Doesn't he like the Queen? 15:38:06 I'm working, too. :) 15:38:30 contractors get no hilidays. /guess 15:38:38 Victoria Day? 15:38:40 er s/hili/holi 15:38:52 *p_l* is in commonwealth but haven't heard anything 15:39:10 Heh. I'm a yank, but was in Cayman for the Queen's day one year. It was kind of fun, they had an airshow over the beach. I've never seen F-16's that low and fast. 15:39:21 it's a bank holiday in canada and austraila too afaik 15:39:38 nah. F-16. Cannon Fodder :P 15:40:38 man. i need to caffeinate. my fingers are seriously disobeying. 15:41:49 Fade: yup... under different nameS in Quebec ;) 15:42:17 -!- nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:42:17 =) 15:43:05 pkhuong: how's the the hash table impl? 15:43:50 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:10 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:17 I've tried a half dozen parameters, but lookups of absent entries are always expensive. 15:45:40 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-165-65.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:51 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:14 The azul dude (cliff click) doesn't seem to think it's an issue... 15:51:19 proq` [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 15:53:46 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 15:54:52 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:21 pkhuong: how expensive relative to non-absent entries? 15:56:40 mega1: I only ran a combined benchmark with a ratio of write:read:miss of 1:10:5. I'll run something with a finer granularity once I'm done with complexes. 15:56:56 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:57:11 milanj- [n=milan@79.101.138.38] has joined #lisp 15:57:42 -!- dysinger [n=tim@71.216.13.30] has quit [] 16:00:14 Good evening. 16:00:26 Hello beach. 16:00:35 good evening beach 16:00:35 pkhuong: do you first do a non-locking read? 16:01:45 Not considering concurrency yet. 16:02:00 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:04:39 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.196.187] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:05:45 atomically-lookup-and-insert-default should probably be native; it needs a name too. 16:05:49 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:10 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:07:14 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:07:44 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:08:43 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 16:09:29 -!- trebor_d` [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:09:52 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:17 -!- nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:11:48 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:44 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:13:56 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:15:10 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:15:24 HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 16:16:45 nikodemus: Do you mind if I send the c-l.net admins a request to add me to the hyperdoc group? 16:17:53 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:17:53 -!- mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-ede270d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:23:13 ixot [n=user@53-110.107-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:24:57 -!- froog [n=user@c8B7747C1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:27:21 borsman [n=quassel@76.177.217.216] has joined #lisp 16:27:46 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:30:25 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-119-58.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:30:55 rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 16:32:34 -!- ixot [n=user@53-110.107-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:33:58 tcr, does my simple-serve-event fix look meaningless? 16:33:58 -!- nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:34:16 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:34:42 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:56 roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:58 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:38:11 deepfire: No, I'm pretty happy that you came up with it. But I'd have to scrutinize it very careful, and I'm not well versed in serve-event. I've hoped that heller would perhaps take care about it. 16:38:40 deepfire: And it's not a total fix, because the disconnect test case is also broken on :spawn 16:41:04 -!- nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Stupid localnet. Trying to get a new IP..."] 16:41:24 jmccrack_ [n=jmccrack@student312-1.psc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:42:28 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:43:40 tcr: not at all 16:44:32 so, what was the magic i need to be able to use restarts on win32 sbcl+slime without hanging slime? 16:44:35 has anyone tried to use clg on debian sid? It won't compile in slime, and I'm too much of a n00b to figure out what's wrong 16:45:05 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 16:45:20 nikodemus: Perhaps use nyef's new-serve-event? 16:45:55 -!- proq` is now known as proq 16:50:06 -!- roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 16:53:40 ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 16:54:53 rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-7ab3f6d60e5ddfe6] has joined #lisp 16:54:55 mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 16:55:20 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:56:33 what's the meaning of :element-type NIL ? 16:56:45 tcr: can you try symbol completion on a listener (slime-open-listener) 16:56:53 it deadlocks emacs here 16:57:34 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:58:27 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=jmccrack@student312-1.psc.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:59:15 fe[nl]ix: for an array? An array in which you can't put anything portably. 17:00:37 so, if X/Y doesn't throw any exception, can 0.0/Y throw one? 17:01:47 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:01:51 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:02:23 pkhuong: what's the purpose of it ? 17:03:38 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:18 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 17:05:22 xristos: Not right now. Better report it on the list. 17:05:39 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has quit [] 17:07:10 fe[nl]ix: none? 17:07:22 interesting 17:07:43 tcr: i did some weeks ago 17:08:40 mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6d500b72d9a1a42c] has joined #lisp 17:09:21 slime-mrepl is just a proof of concept, it's not prime-time ready 17:09:34 HG` [n=wells@xdslgx070.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:09:43 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:10:17 what's with slime-autodoc not working? I recall seeing that rarely, but I think I fixed it. 17:10:30 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 17:10:48 haven't reproduced it lately 17:11:11 if you run threads, you can start multiple swank servers in different threads 17:11:20 and have multiple repls that way 17:14:09 tcr, last I tried nyef's new serve event, it didn't compile. 17:14:28 Let me dredge up that alternative one-liner fix.. 17:15:49 ejs [n=eugen@44-156-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:52 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:16:18 dwave [n=ask@062016247080.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 17:17:22 _deepfire pasted "debugger fix for swank/win32" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80439 17:18:58 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:08 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:21:27 -!- rootzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-175-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:21:49 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:22:04 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:43 -!- BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:24:30 lisp_ferret [i=d01415be@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8d79110c818514bb] has joined #lisp 17:24:37 http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/lang/eng/blaise_aguera_y_arcas_demos_photosynth.html check this out 17:24:51 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xof 17:26:35 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:26:58 roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:33 ok, sorry, I'm having IRC client fail. I can't ban the phisher (or whatever) 17:27:50 -!- Xof has set mode -o Xof 17:28:07 *Xof* goes home instead 17:28:14 irssi? 17:28:19 java.freenode.net 17:28:20 ? 17:30:17 -!- mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:30:51 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 17:33:12 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:06 lisp_ferret: We usually don't follow links like that unless they are from trusted people, or unless we think they might be on topic. "Check this out" from a newcomer probably won't do. 17:36:49 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-7f461253b0179368] has joined #lisp 17:37:43 i wonder why people still bother to spam links on IRC channels. the various social bookmarking sites are probably a much better target (larger audience, less focused) 17:38:10 i wonder why people use these "social bookmarking" sites 17:38:19 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-159-239.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:38:29 kludgy, yet another service 17:38:52 most comments are crap, anyway 17:39:39 people like to pan parties with friends and post goofy photos 17:39:44 -!- jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:39:44 milan [n=milan@79.101.231.210] has joined #lisp 17:39:49 and girl liek to check up on ex boyfriends 17:39:56 to kill thier game with girls they know 17:40:01 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 17:41:51 http://www.somethingawful.com/d/photoshop-phriday/literal-book-covers.php?page=3 17:42:53 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 17:42:54 tcr: fd-stream.lisp on current HEAD breaks the fontification constantly on win32 17:42:55 i'm guessing line-ending issues 17:43:01 but have no clue really 17:43:12 dang i posted in the wrong channel sorry 17:43:20 how do i turn it off? the warnings are popping up constantly (will email a sample to you) 17:44:46 oh wait, no. the connection was closed, that's all 17:45:56 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 17:48:07 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 17:48:42 -!- milanj- [n=milan@79.101.138.38] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:52:12 jmbr [n=jmbr@248.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:54:31 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:23 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:59 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:35 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:10:18 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-59-19.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:16:52 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:17:12 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:18:43 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 18:21:34 dysinger_ [n=tim@76.164.46.79] has joined #lisp 18:22:12 dalton [n=lhugbj@189-19-118-44.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:23:38 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634405.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 18:26:04 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-61-204.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["« La POO c'est bien beau, mais en C au moins on va droit au but. »"] 18:26:17 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:35 Okay, that should be more stable. 18:29:55 -!- jmccrack_ is now known as JoelMcCracken 18:31:23 *nikodemus* runs into UNIX-NAMESTRING in OPEN 18:32:00 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-159-239.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:32:28 dysinger__ [n=tim@76.164.46.79] has joined #lisp 18:33:28 -!- jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:33:47 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 18:34:05 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 18:34:32 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:35:45 kzar [n=kzar@174.6.76.80] has joined #lisp 18:36:34 jao [n=jao@96.Red-83-37-139.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:57 -!- awayekos is now known as A_nekos 18:37:02 do other people with 1.0.28+ sbcl see the pseudo_atomic lossage on win32? 18:37:20 -!- dysinger_ [n=tim@76.164.46.79] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:37:49 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:38:56 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:19 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:15 Hmmm. I wonder what the market would be for an unflattering, unauthorized biography of Stephen Wolfram. 18:41:24 lawyers, most likely 18:41:52 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:42:00 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-59-19.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:42:02 Heh. He didn't seem that bad a guy in the few presentations about Wolfram|Alpha that I watched. 18:42:04 Well, there's that. 18:42:25 luis: have you seen the old Kent Pitman post about his long-ago run in with Wolfram. 18:42:32 Not that that's definitive. 18:42:48 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:42:54 Based on the reddit commentary about Wolfram Alpha, I'm thinking there'd be a lot of people happy to see someone make fun of him for a few hundred pages. 18:42:56 I haven't no, got a link? 18:43:18 Let's see. 18:43:19 gigamonkey: Probably not large, but I'd read it just out of curiosity. I never realized there was such controversy over him or Mathematica. I'm still not sure what it's about. 18:43:57 what evil did wolfram do? 18:44:26 http://www.amazon.com/review/R6B8KO2M32P8G?ie=UTF8&ref_=cm_cr_rdp_perm 18:44:38 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/f3b93140c2f2e922 18:45:04 gigamonkey: thanks. 18:45:17 froog [n=user@c8B7747C1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 18:45:37 tmh: It might depend on how many disgruntled customers of ANKOS there are. 18:46:02 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:46:17 postamar [n=postamar@76-10-146-53.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:47 milanj [n=milan@212.200.194.91] has joined #lisp 18:46:58 -!- milan [n=milan@79.101.231.210] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:48:58 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:49:06 looks like a stuborn guy 18:49:15 blackwol` [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:26 -!- dysinger__ [n=tim@76.164.46.79] has quit [] 18:51:01 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 18:51:55 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151754.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:51:56 gigamonkey: ANKOS is one case where my over-developed sense of cynicism paid off. I've never read or had any interest in reading it simply based on claims the book was making. 18:53:15 When I see claims like he was making, I generally wait for someone else better equipped to read and review the book. Furthermore, I was luckily ignorant of his reputation outside of creating Mathematica. 18:54:26 is there a way to get lisp-mode in emacs to highlight user/library-defined functions a different color? 18:54:44 yes, it's emacs, you can do anything 18:54:54 Do you know Edi Weitz? 18:55:16 let me rephrase that -- is there something already around that does that, or do I have to figure out how to get swank/slime to do it for me? 18:56:00 It was a metric assload of cool-looking graphs and diagrams, but in the end it was "Well, there's something here but even I don't have a handle on it." 18:56:24 i'm not aware of this. tcr had some code for highlighting symbols in different packages with different colours 18:57:03 And people wonder if MacArthur grants are worthwhile... 18:57:42 sykopomp: but, why would you want this? 18:57:52 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslgx070.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:58:16 would be nice. I've seen some scheme editors that do it. 18:58:29 but maybe it would end up being too noisy. Worth a shot, anyways :) 18:58:46 jimi_hendrix [n=user@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #lisp 18:59:14 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181129202.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:00:15 hi 19:00:16 jimi_hendrix, memo from nikodemus: up to 1.0.28.43 the :TOPLEVEL function given to save-lisp-and-die should never return -- if it does, it's return value will accidentally be used as the exit code. i'm guessing you are returning a thread object from the by accident 19:00:16 jimi_hendrix, memo from nikodemus: either put (quit) as the end of your toplevel function, or get a bleeding edge sbcl. ... assuming my guess as to the cause was correct, that is. backtrace is your friend 19:00:20 thank you bot 19:03:02 With patience, insight, and self-confidence to spare, Wolfram outlines a fundamental new way of modeling complex system 19:03:19 so his claim to fame is phd from caltek at 20? 19:03:23 that seems impressive 19:03:31 and makeing $$ from amthematica? 19:03:40 mathematica 19:03:47 kleppari_ [n=spa@hysing.asp.is] has joined #lisp 19:04:10 lisp_ferret: more signal less noise. 19:04:18 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181129202.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:04:33 what program has wolfram written that is any good? 19:04:51 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44afb0.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:05:05 -!- blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:05:13 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@94-224-246-148.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:06:58 -!- blackwol` [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:07:31 nikodemus: Oh that's a bug. I removed a (slime-connected-p) as a micro optimization, but I forgot that the later code does depent on it 19:08:30 i want to write a program that uses tools (helper apps in this case) to carry out a series of transforms on objects (data/file/stream whatever), you start with an object with one set of attributes, and the goal is to end with another object with a different set of attributes 19:08:40 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-71.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:08:47 sykopomp: Do you mean some certain symbols? 19:09:19 sykopomp: Or do you mean something like this: http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/home-package-viewer-hack.png 19:09:40 sykopomp: (Symbols are fontified according to their home package) 19:09:41 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 19:11:15 hmm 19:11:24 -!- roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 19:11:37 I'm trying to decide a good way to represent information about the tools. i suppose, in an abstract sense, there is a set of possible objects they can operate on, and for every type of object, there is a set of possible outputs, 19:11:46 sort of, although I'm fine with just having "these are from CL:, these are the ones from libraries/current package" 19:12:03 which it seems this can do just as well? 19:12:24 symbols from CL are typically fontified already by emacs 19:12:32 (if they appear in the CAR of a form) 19:12:34 you should know symbols from CL by heart 19:12:45 I do 19:13:04 it's more about having pretty colors. But mainly it's about not having function symbols and everything-else be the same color. 19:13:06 I also did once some work to fontify all macros in a custom face 19:13:17 Lost the screenshot, though, I think 19:14:13 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:15:52 slashus2 [n=dex@74-141-105-89.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:15 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:16:42 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:10 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:17:41 Maybe i should use prolog. Sometimes I think "maybe i should use prolog." Usually thats a sign i have no clue what I'm trying to do. 19:18:00 No. 19:18:26 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-166.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 19:19:33 Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-3-216.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:21:07 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:22:15 -!- postamar [n=postamar@76-10-146-53.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 19:27:47 "Maybe I should use INTERCAL." 19:27:51 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-39-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:27:54 That is /never/ the answer. 19:28:07 nyef: it might be fun :) 19:28:28 Any language that ignores syntax errors deserves consideration. 19:28:34 "Maybe I should let unlambda use me" 19:29:09 In mother etc? 19:29:18 eh, sovjet. bleh. I blew it. 19:29:28 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:29:45 -!- octoberdan [n=dgreen@64.206.6.254] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:31:02 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-29-146.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:31:04 what is typically used in sbcl to open a stream to a buffer 19:31:09 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:31:16 if you want to use a buffer to make 2 programs communicate 19:33:03 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:23 yakman_ [n=bot@94-194-134-155.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:41:28 -!- A_nekos is now known as anekos 19:41:42 yvdriess: and by "buffer" you mean what? a pipe? 19:42:15 -!- yango_ [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:42:17 yeah a pipe, an input and output stream sharing a buffer 19:42:58 make-fd-stream comes to mind then 19:43:04 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 19:44:14 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:31 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:45:31 my sbcl quits if an exception happens instead of opening a debugger, i havent used --disable-debugger and id like to get it to open the debugger 19:46:26 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-59-19.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:19 nikodemus: would you consider adding a third segment to the assembler state for constants? 19:48:31 -!- jao [n=jao@96.Red-83-37-139.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:48:38 michaelw: not an existing pipe 19:48:49 I mean making a pipe between 2 of my own threads in CL 19:49:09 yvdriess: so... just a regular in-memory queue? 19:49:25 pkhuong: thread safety :/ 19:49:39 *tcr* wishes (loop .... collect uniquely foo) 19:50:27 yvdriess: lock, use nikodemus's lock-free queue, or copy from your favourite multiprocessing textbook. 19:50:30 yvdriess: that's what locks are for then? 19:50:41 even better: (loop ... collect (foo) uniquely by #'cdr) 19:51:16 that's what I hoped to avoid :) 19:51:19 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:51:50 what exactly were you trying to avoid? Using a thread-safe data structure? 19:51:58 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-130-49.netcologne.de] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 19:52:10 having to make one 19:52:49 -!- slashus2 [n=dex@74-141-105-89.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [] 19:54:31 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-152-38.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 19:54:44 that would leave you with either the first option (lock, not hard if you aren't trying to support mad concurrency) or the second one (use nikodemus's) 19:55:24 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@wireless-169-235-58-205.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:55:34 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 19:56:53 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181129202.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:57:55 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 19:59:48 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:00:24 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=jmccrack@student312-1.psc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:00:53 language lawyers: assuming x is a double-float and y a (complex double-float) do we have (= (/ x y) (/ (complex x 0d0) y)) ? 20:01:13 klausi_ [n=klausi@port-92-193-47-121.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:18 I am curious about lisp on 8 core boxes.....must something be done to enable the work to be spread accross 8 cores? 20:01:55 write program to take advantage of 8 cores ? 20:02:08 lisp_ferret: yes, use bordeaux-threads. 20:02:13 this would normally involve threds 20:02:17 no, lisp_ferret .. SBCL, for instance, uses native threads that will take advantage of any multi-core system 20:02:49 lnostdal: if your program uses them. 20:03:13 oh, yeah .. you must use threads of course .. heh .. but, i mean; the threads are "real" .. so the OS (at least linux...) will spread them to multiple cores 20:03:32 lisp_ferret: Or buy Sciener CL which is optimized for multi-core. 20:03:49 http://www.scieneer.com/scl/threads.html 20:04:25 you can also go after it in traditional Unix way, that is without threads, using IPC between multiple forged lisp images 20:04:29 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-146-76.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 20:04:39 my sbcl doesnt open the debugger when an error happens, and i cant figure out how to configure it to open it 20:04:56 pkhuong: What is the current behavior with respect to your question? 20:04:59 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-81-47.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:08 -!- kzar [n=kzar@174.6.76.80] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:05:13 yakman_: it opens it by default 20:05:19 lukego [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has joined #lisp 20:05:22 s/forged/forked/ 20:05:31 i know, but i believe i accidently did something which changed its configuration 20:05:46 *tmh* gets T 20:06:46 tmh: I'm fairly certain the spec says that's exactly what happens, but for some reason *that* combination isn't open-coded. 20:06:59 i dont know what i did, iv looked in the manual, reinstalled sbcl and tried to run it on another user account 20:07:09 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-59-19.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:07:19 changed ~/.sbclrc? 20:07:38 pkhuong: CLHS 12.1.5.3 is pretty explicit, they are =, but not eql. 20:07:44 there isnt one in my home directory or in $SBCL_HOME 20:07:53 Quiz time: Ron Garrett created Lexicons for CL as a step along the way to creating a new lisp-like language. What is the name of that not-yet-reified language? 20:08:04 semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 20:08:39 tmh: that's irrelevant. 20:08:43 clhs 12.1.5.2 20:08:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/12_aeb.htm 20:09:20 clhs 12.1.4.1 20:09:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/12_ada.htm 20:09:39 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:40 jao [n=jao@96.Red-83-37-139.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:45 sellout: Perl 6? 20:10:25 pkhuong: Ok, I guess I'm missing the the point of your question. 20:10:49 ~. 20:11:14 nyef: :P even less existent than that. 20:11:28 this is the output it gives http://rafb.net/p/2sOVMs50.html 20:11:28 tmh: the question is whether dividing a real float by a complex float is the equivalent to upgrading the real to a complex before performing the division. If I read the spec and the code correctly, it is. I wanted confirmation. 20:12:14 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:13:42 pkhuong: That's how I read it. Those sections are particularly apropos to me at the moment because I'm working with Hermitian matrices and trying to get the behavior correct. 20:13:51 yakman_: /etc/sbclrc? alias? shell wrapper 20:15:04 -!- jimi_hendrix [n=user@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:18:54 tombom_ [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 20:20:30 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6D179.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 20:20:34 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-68-127-162-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:21:27 wow. it's possible this box was busy with other things during the first build, but HEAD seems a _lot_ faster at building sbcl than .16. 20:22:28 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 20:23:23 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:24:08 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:23 blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:41 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:26:01 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-8.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:26:46 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:28:35 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-170.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:41 Zenton` [n=user@126.Red-88-30-14.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:02 pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:29 -!- jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:32:48 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 20:33:23 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:41 -!- ejs [n=eugen@44-156-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:33:58 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 20:34:29 -!- rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-7ab3f6d60e5ddfe6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:34:48 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Success] 20:34:49 -!- tombom_ is now known as tombom 20:35:08 dysinger [n=tim@dsl231-036-075.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:42 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-81-47.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:39:19 -!- jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:39:35 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 20:39:44 -!- int80_h [n=michael@68.166.221.28] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:45:21 is anyone on lispworks/windows? 20:45:42 nikodemus: I can bring it up. 20:47:12 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:29 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-170.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Success] 20:47:58 -!- lisp_ferret [i=d01415be@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8d79110c818514bb] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 20:48:06 i'd like to know what PATHNAME-HOST, PATHNAME-DEVICE, and PATHNAME-DIRECTORY say for #p"//hostname/share/something" 20:48:18 -!- derekv [n=abstract@c-76-112-240-178.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:48:45 nikodemus: (mapcar (lambda (f) (funcall #p"//hostname/share/something")) (list (function pathname-host) (function pathname-device) (function pathname-directory))) 20:49:00 Oh, you mean on lispworks/windows. 20:49:05 Okay, I have a samba share that I can that with. I'll boot up the virtual machine. 20:49:42 great, thanks 20:50:23 -!- semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:50:30 abstract [n=abstract@c-76-112-240-178.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:57 -!- abstract is now known as derekv 20:51:01 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:51:16 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 20:52:31 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:56:56 *meingbg* is puzzled... how can lisp programs ever compile? 20:57:15 by compiler? 20:57:21 yes. 20:57:22 meingbg: the compilation fairy does it 20:57:34 meingbg: so, puzzle solved 20:57:42 testsan [n=testsan@p2139-ipbf2302marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:57:45 anything can be compiled that can be interpreted 20:58:03 tmh pasted "lispworks/windows share path" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80455 20:58:05 But to what extent? 20:58:10 though some languages are terribly hard to compile 20:58:38 this one for example: http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/whenever.html 20:59:07 If I write a program to connect to a web news site, and if the headline starts with a vowel, define a reader macro this way, otherwise that other way... how is that ever going to compile? 20:59:25 from a theoretical point of view a compiler is an interpreter partially specialized on itself as input data (hm, i always need to re-read that paper to grasp it again... :) 20:59:48 meingbg: reader macros are working before compilation 21:00:17 nikodemus: Pasted the results. Sorry, forgot to put your name in the title, if you missed it. 21:00:30 meingbg: also keep in mind that in lisp there's no strict compile-time/run-time line, it even feels artificial to draw it here and there... 21:00:30 stassats: So I couldn't do as in my example? 21:01:26 you can modify your code before you compile it, yes 21:01:35 attila_lendvai: I've imagined the compiler as an interpreter which runs the program as far as is possible without input, then save state... 21:01:45 -!- testsan [n=testsan@p2139-ipbf2302marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [] 21:01:47 meingbg: if you use READ and COMPILE to process a webpage... seems pointless though, unless your webpage is huge and would take a lot of time to process with non-specialized code 21:01:58 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:02:04 no, compiler is a translator from one language to another 21:02:07 attila_lendvai: modern JS? 21:02:15 meingbg: that's a partial evaluator 21:02:25 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:03:23 -!- jao [n=jao@96.Red-83-37-139.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:05:00 attila_lendvai: stassats: So if reader macros are working before compilation and I make a program where the definition of reader macros depend on input, what really does happen? 21:05:18 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:05:40 meingbg: for reader macros to run at runtime, you need to call READ 21:05:51 you read different code in different situations 21:06:01 meingbg: forget that the compiler is an exe you start from bash... 21:06:24 attila_lendvai: That's not how I think of it. 21:06:32 anymore. 21:07:06 a compiler is a thingy that takes some bit of memory (probably code) and returns another (probably machine code) 21:07:11 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 21:08:27 jao [n=jao@25.Red-83-36-223.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:20 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 21:10:01 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:10:09 meingbg: you don't understand how the lisp reader CL:READ's code, which is then sometimes CL:COMPILE'ed... read up on it 21:10:22 meingbg: and do play in the REPL while reading 21:11:39 *derekv* reads the whenever page 21:11:52 wow its just like parallel programming 21:12:23 swig generated 260,000 lines of code which takes 30 minutes to compile 21:13:16 attila_lendvai: I will. 21:13:38 it's a good thing i'm not farting around with 32 bit for this project 21:15:17 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.194.91] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:15:36 i'm sure the library that I am wrapping could be written in 260,000 lines or less if done in lisp 21:16:04 milanj [n=milan@212.200.194.91] has joined #lisp 21:16:13 manic12: what library? 21:16:21 smlib/nlib 21:16:24 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.194.91] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:17:23 the important thing is that it works 21:17:32 so I am pleased 21:21:09 milanj [n=milan@212.200.194.91] has joined #lisp 21:21:35 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:41 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@94-224-246-148.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 21:22:08 -!- cpape [n=user@host16084.pik-potsdam.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:24:50 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:25:51 -!- alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:26:42 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 21:28:27 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 21:28:38 saikat [n=saikat@75-144-255-214-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:45 hi, can anybody hint me please on how to stop killing sldb, pls? http://paste.lisp.org/display/80456 21:28:45 puchacz, memo from attila_lendvai: ok, i won't 21:28:55 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 21:30:29 puchacz: looks like swank:format-restarts-for-emacs should be handling errors in FORMAT or PRINC calls 21:30:43 the debugger should be smart enough to keep a hashtable for the identities that failed to print, instead of turning of printing altogether... i'll keep that in mind when i next touch sbcl debugger code 21:31:26 attila_lendvai: Careful, that way lies the maximum nesting depth. 21:31:51 haha, can I set a global variable somewhere to nil to recover from these situations ;-) ? 21:32:27 jao` [n=jao@25.Red-83-36-223.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:27 -!- jao [n=jao@25.Red-83-36-223.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:32:38 just properly use your conditions 21:32:59 slashus2 [n=dex@173-25-18-77.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:22 puchacz: alternatively you could use the cl-def print-object definer that wraps the body of print object methods in sane error handlers 21:34:16 attila_lendvai, stassats: I don't know what the root cause (the original condition) might have been. 21:34:36 or on what class specialise print-object 21:35:52 puchacz: i was just guessing that it's one of your print-object's that causes havok 21:36:08 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@58.173.217.78] has quit [] 21:37:15 attila_lendvai: is your guess then that my specialisation of print-object raising a condition? 21:38:15 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:38:19 puchacz: when i face such a situation then it's most of the time due to one of print-object's. (well, before i wrote cl-def) 21:38:28 +my 21:39:25 attila_lendvai: thanks, I will try to figure what new classes are in use. 21:39:58 puchacz: don't get narrow minded because of this, though 21:40:47 I feel blind minded, rather than narrow :-) my first check is to surround my print-object specialisations with handler-case. 21:41:09 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:34 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:06 -!- yakman_ [n=bot@94-194-134-155.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:44:15 attila_lendvai: spot on. thanks. better now. got my debugger back. 21:47:15 -!- mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6d500b72d9a1a42c] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:47:18 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:47:57 HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 21:52:49 -!- jao` is now known as jao 21:53:30 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office."] 22:24:10 -!- Edward_ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-3-216.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:24:24 -!- jao` [n=jao@17.Red-83-38-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:24:38 Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-64-2.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:26:11 -!- jao [n=jao@85.Red-81-32-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:27:25 -!- dysinger_ [n=tim@166.129.45.63] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:30:48 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-250-153-172.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:01 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [] 22:32:43 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634405.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:32:44 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:45 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:32:46 -!- ruediger 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[Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:52:53 ferret_lisp [i=d01415be@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a5fc21e11500e564] has joined #lisp 22:54:14 reading ansi common lisp by paul graham, finished chapter 2 and doing the exercises. 22:54:44 -!- BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:55:07 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:54 In SLIME Is there some way to splice the previous input line into a current line (i.e., yank it without crushing the current line)? 22:56:53 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:59:21 -!- Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-64-2.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["« La POO c'est bien beau, mais en C au moins on va droit au but. »"] 22:59:50 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:59:54 -!- Zenton` [n=user@126.Red-88-30-14.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:01:17 no ready way, but it's easy to make one 23:04:28 -!- meltingwax [n=meltingw@unaffiliated/meltingwax] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:04:31 -!- blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:04:37 blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:07 benny [n=benny@i577A0405.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:06:28 Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:06:45 blackwol` [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:22 -!- blackwol` [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:08:59 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@248.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:09:10 dysinger [n=tim@32.177.51.225] has joined #lisp 23:11:47 -!- kleppari_ [n=spa@hysing.asp.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:13:38 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-15-237.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:34 I am getting a unknown core file entry: 0 ...when I do a clbuild compile-implementation sbcl 23:14:42 anybody know how to get past this 23:14:46 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:15:03 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-15-237.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:04 when I googled there was a lot of stuff about maxima but I dont use that 23:16:30 kleppari [n=spa@hysing.asp.is] has joined #lisp 23:16:44 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:16:53 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:18:12 -!- Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 23:18:14 what os? 23:22:08 -!- blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:22:47 Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has joined #lisp 23:23:15 -!- klausi_ [n=klausi@port-92-193-47-121.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:24:12 kleppari_ [n=spa@hysing.asp.is] has joined #lisp 23:25:43 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:14 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-250-153-172.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:28:49 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-15-237.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:30:47 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-202-140.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:40 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-15-237.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:32:38 Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-202-140.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:10 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-20-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:34:51 kleppari1 [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:34:53 Are there any cl-sql wizards out there? I'm just wondering --- what do I use to store a POSIX timestamp in a clsql table. It's got built-in stuff for CL universal-times (which I use), but am not sure about POSIX timestamps (which I also need to support). 23:37:07 -!- kleppari [n=spa@hysing.asp.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:37:10 rpg: any timeformat for 64bit integer? 23:37:31 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-202-140.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:48 p_l: I'm using mysql, which seems to sorta understand timestamps more richly than treating them as integers. 23:38:26 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-202-140.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:38:34 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:38:47 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-202-140.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:54 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:30 *p_l* goes off to write a predicate logic translation of "If you are using MySQL and have a problem, MySQL is another problem" 23:39:52 -!- kleppari1 [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:39:55 rpg: can't you directly insert sql fragments? 23:40:19 p_l: Possibly, but my utter database incompetence makes me wish to hew to clsql... 23:40:21 sqlite might be more indicated than the other DB for use with lisp: it's value-typed, not column-typed. 23:41:53 pjb: If you don't need constraints but value SQL-style queries, yes, SQLite is perfect. If you want to use constraints etc., PostgreSQL or other good SQL RDBMS :D 23:42:49 rpg: if you want to use those special types, you can define your own type conversions by specializing the right methods of CLSQL-SYS 23:43:42 kleppari [n=spa@jaki.tolva.is] has joined #lisp 23:43:46 I should mention that I'm using a legacy database, in some code shared between Java and CL, and am pretty totally locked into MySQL. 23:45:00 kleppari1 [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:45:56 -!- kleppari_ [n=spa@hysing.asp.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:46:57 -!- kleppari [n=spa@jaki.tolva.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:49:42 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-202-140.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:49:48 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-15-80.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:15 database-get-type-specifier, database-output-sql-as-type, read-sql-value are the relevant GFs 23:51:37 to define your own mapping between Lisp and SQL type 23:52:16 meltingwax [n=meltingw@unaffiliated/meltingwax] has joined #lisp 23:54:33 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-202-140.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:56:42 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:57:23 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-202-140.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Success] 23:59:33 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:59:43 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]