00:00:55 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-153-251.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 00:01:03 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-17-207-207.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:19 what would be better: writing a tag parser library from scratch, or reusing taglib? 00:02:33 -!- pina [n=finale@unaffiliated/pina] has quit [] 00:03:12 how do i read a string from a stream 00:03:41 benny [n=benny@i577A08DD.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:05:38 -!- r1nu- [n=r1nu-@ppp-94-68-16-210.home.otenet.gr] has quit [] 00:07:06 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-153-251.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:08:33 jimi_hendrix: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_lin.htm#read-line 00:08:35 nvm, figured it out, but it is only reading it one word at a time, how would i read until the end of the line? 00:08:40 o will read 00:08:56 ruediger_ [n=ruediger@62-47-153-251.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 00:08:57 *p_l* was pestering minion for a link, but it didn't work ;-) 00:09:10 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-109.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:10:47 -!- froog_ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:13:01 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-7-18.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:13:41 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCB65A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:16:12 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:16:59 does anyone here have experience with usocket? 00:17:09 that must 've been the best failing troll I've read in years 00:17:18 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:28 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-133-248.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:17:54 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:19:10 anyone? 00:21:56 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:22:03 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:22:19 nvm 00:22:43 but new question: how would i do threading in CL? 00:22:56 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B027.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:23:18 -!- jophish [n=jophish@dial-80-47-3-226.access.uk.tiscali.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:25:16 jimi_hendrix: get bordeaux-threads, read default-implementations.lisp therein 00:25:57 c'est ça 00:26:02 ok 00:29:01 jimi_hendrix: I'm lazy and used the sbcl threads once, they were straight-forward (but bordeaux-threads is probably better (and portable)) 00:29:32 ok 00:29:33 p_l: I would use CFFI to wrap the libid3 functions I need for my app 00:30:21 bordeaux-threads has to do very little to adapt to the different threading interfaces. There wasn't that much difference to begin with, so there is little benefit in bothering to look at the implementation-specific interfaces 00:30:24 and one more question: how would i evalate all the code i have in a buffer into slime? 00:31:08 if it's a file buffer, `C-c C-k' 00:31:08 C-h a eval and look around :) 00:31:22 ok 00:31:25 C-c C-k for the file, not sure how to do it if the file isn't saved 00:31:30 S11001001: http://freshmeat.net/projects/libid3/ <-- you mean this one? 00:31:46 S11001001: what ap with libid3? 00:31:52 s/ap/app/ 00:32:37 yes 00:32:48 CFFI doesn't have C++ support 00:33:10 S11001001: Well, there are ways around that problem :D 00:33:30 though SWIG still gives a warning about working with C++ 00:33:31 it keeps surprising me that there is no c++ support 00:34:28 madnificent: write the C++ ABI and lookup and they'll put it in :) 00:34:51 C++ is much harder than C when you can't use the compiler 00:35:03 I wonder if one might reuse the work on Kalyptus to generate C++ bindings 00:35:24 S11001001: I lack the time and knowledge. I wouldn't be able to write the C bindings either. It simply surprises me, as it's widely used too 00:35:37 it might be easier to write a C wrapper around it 00:36:15 SWIG has some support for automatic generation of C wrapper and then generation of CLOS classes for it, but it's considered *very* experimental 00:36:30 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE00179ab667a9-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:37:04 Also note that you are unlikely to get C++ exception handling interoperation working. At all. 00:37:48 well, if there was a way to find all possible exceptions... 00:37:50 (At least, not portably. It will depend to a great extent on what Lisp you use as host.) 00:38:01 ... you'd still die on unwind. 00:38:25 nyef: is it possible to catch the exception while on the C++ side? 00:38:46 adeht: ok, i did that, i defined one function in the buffer to test, and it says its not defined now even though it compiled 00:39:08 X-Scale [i=email@89.180.135.232] has joined #lisp 00:39:13 C++ can catch C++ exceptions, but throwing them through lisp stack frames is going to be unportable. 00:39:29 jimi_hendrix: are you in the right package? 00:39:37 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-17-207-207.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:39:38 Lisp can catch Lisp signals, but throwing them through C++ stack frames is similarly unportable. 00:40:28 nyef: I was thinking of solution such as adding a handler on all Lisp->C++ and C++->Lisp calls that would catch exceptions 00:40:52 And the actual given semantics for C++ try/finally and try/catch/re-throw map to a rather vicious combination of Lisp operations. 00:40:59 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE00179ab667a9-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:41:11 adeht: i am in no package 00:41:12 not ideal, but as a way to stop an exception from killing the whole app 00:41:15 That would make call-out and call-in even more expensive than they currently are. 00:41:43 nyef: "shouldn't have used C++"? 00:41:44 jimi_hendrix: you are always in a package, which is the value of cl:*package* 00:42:10 nyef: first ensure it works, then see whether it's fast enough for the goal at hand 00:42:18 Something like that, though exceptions are really the dangerous part as far as Lisp is concerned. 00:42:29 adeht: i meant nothing specific, i am in common-lisp-user 00:42:52 i defined the functions in no specific package either 00:43:12 jimi_hendrix: you can put (in-package :cl-user) at the beginning to make sure that it's right 00:43:19 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-136-250.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:20 nyef: plus it's probably still cheaper than my other idea (which was something around "build a server running as separate native thread which would implement C++ semantics and special API) 00:43:20 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:43:26 Also note that those lisps that are implemented in terms of compiling to C are likely going to not completely suck for this, and SBCL/Win32 has the bare minimum interop already in place. 00:43:31 jimi_hendrix: and are you sure that it compiled successfully, e.g. that you're not missing a parenthesis or anything 00:44:18 Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:38 nyef: I was thinking of modifying ECL to use Apple's GC, which is designed to play well with C++ (it's also written in it). Of course other stuff had better priority :D 00:44:57 adeht: there was 1 style warning and one normal warning...i removed the normal warning and it now works? 00:45:25 Yeah, ECL would probably work okay. SBCL would be painful to get working, but it needs to happen at some point. 00:45:29 *Fare* has advanced enough in the new xcvb that there is something to debug... yay! 00:45:37 Fare: Congratulations. 00:45:51 for some reason I never get to run anything in ecl 00:46:05 I find that C-c C-c doesn't work in XEmacs, though C-c C-k does 00:46:08 Fare: go you 00:46:08 *p_l* tries finding out if libid3 supports id3v2 and newer 00:46:57 I only have 2 weeks before 2 interns show up who are meant to work with xcvb... I better get something at least semi-working by then. 00:47:09 If possible working not worse than the previous prototype 00:47:14 that's the best motivation :) 00:47:20 (which can be checked out in git, btw) 00:47:35 hmm... looks like libid3 supports v2 00:47:44 time to get swig running on it 00:48:09 last question: whats the format code for newline? 00:48:15 jimi_hendrix: ok.. that info is insufficient for understanding the problem you had 00:48:22 jimi_hendrix: ~% 00:48:26 ty 00:48:28 *Fare* has abandoned the illusion of using packages as anything like a module tool. 00:50:18 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 00:51:17 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE00179ab667a9-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:51:19 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:52:28 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-84.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 00:59:03 btw, what is the correct way to implement something like method_missing? from ruby in CLOS? To be exact I want to do that on slots, not on methods 01:00:24 whats ^M in a string mean? 01:00:28 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:00:46 jimi_hendrix: it's ASCII CARRIAGE RETURN. #\Return 01:01:49 p_l: there's `slot-missing' 01:02:19 ok 01:02:29 thx 01:02:33 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 01:02:55 pjb: does so \r or \r\n 01:03:24 p_l: And there's no-applicable-method, if you want the other side of it in the future. 01:03:30 "\r" 01:03:38 though probably I won't need either of those, in the end :D 01:03:56 (it might be easier to just put everything into hashtable) 01:04:15 jimi_hendrix: #\newline might send \r, \r\n or \n depending on the implementation and host. 01:04:31 ok 01:04:44 pjb: how would i chomp that off 01:04:56 (remove #\return string) 01:05:23 ok 01:05:43 Note that this may still lose as soon as your string escapes to the outside world, depending on how it gets there. 01:06:08 The question is how you got it here in the first place? 01:06:12 (Platform-specific line-ending conventions are fun, aren't they?) 01:08:27 heh 01:10:33 to the point that people think that 'binary' and 'text' modes in FTP are for line-ending coversion! Blasphemy! 01:11:26 p_l: on slots, you get slot-value-using-class 01:11:27 <_3b> people still know about modes in ftp? :p 01:11:53 which you can specialize for classes that use metaclasses you define 01:12:50 _3b: I think I need to increase my "old fashioned" counter, then :D 01:13:11 _3b: As ftp is still used by some poor unfortunates too clueless to know better than to foist it off upon the more knowledgable, and some system default ftp clients default to text mode, yes. 01:13:14 but at least in DTP world knowledge of FTP is standard 01:13:44 what function would i use to remove the first char of a string 01:13:56 ("Okay, so tell me again why you're not using sftp for this?") 01:14:06 jimi_hendrix: You might try subseq. 01:14:25 because if you send someone a half gig email attachement, there will be a group of very knowledgable and angry people after you :D 01:14:56 -!- ruediger_ [n=ruediger@62-47-153-251.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:15:04 p_l: Okay, so tell me again why you're not using sftp for this? 01:15:12 nyef: because clients don't have it? 01:15:17 Or rsync, or... 01:15:28 remember, non-techies as clients 01:15:30 ... bloody SAMBA/CIFS? 01:15:30 <_3b> or apache, or ... :) 01:15:48 nyef: have you ever imagined putting an unsecured CIFS share on internet? 01:15:57 we are talking about *outside* interface 01:16:03 not for internal work 01:16:05 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE00179ab667a9-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:16:08 for clients to dump their data 01:16:20 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE00179ab667a9-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:16:41 FTP just seems so... icky, though. 01:17:07 FTP is ok, unfortunately people cannot use a FTP client. Firefox is overloading their brains already. 01:17:10 create a directory, dump your files while simultaneously calling the company that you have a job for them, and the data is in directory . It's clunky, but it works 01:17:25 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-129-14.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:17:26 pjb: I've seen mostly Total Commander at this 01:17:35 Hence file uploading in HTTP. Have fun! 01:18:06 I haven't yet seen a company that uses file uploading in HTTP, at least not in that segment and not in Poland :) 01:18:27 I still need to get my mother some server with proper, working FTP, though. 01:18:28 <_3b> well, you can take over the market then :) 01:18:35 There are a lot of them. Web sites doing only that, providing that "service"... 01:18:40 Right, and what ftp client are "most clients" using? The one that came with their OS, or something that had to be installed specially? 01:19:05 nyef: something that had to be installed specially, usually several years ago, and everyone grown fond of 01:19:08 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 01:19:08 Well, MacOSX or MacOS users could use Fetch, it's a nice FTP client. 01:19:37 at least DTP world in Poland seems to run on FTP and SMTP :D 01:19:46 and telephone calls :D 01:20:50 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:21:06 *p_l* recalls that he will need to hunt for a server just for mail and FTP, just for that 01:22:33 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 01:25:11 g06|in [n=Spitfire@cpe-71-74-84-48.insight.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:09 *hefner* is a little surprised at tcr's funcall lambda thing on sbcl-devel not being inlined. I've written much more baroque things that boiled down to the same idea and had everything inlined nicely. 01:26:18 how would i split a string on spaces? 01:26:21 *jimi_hendrix* did google 01:26:38 minion, split-sequence? 01:26:39 split-sequence: SPLIT-SEQUENCE (formerly known as PARTITION) is a member of the Common Lisp Utilities family of programs, designed by community consensus. http://www.cliki.net/split-sequence 01:27:14 or you write a loop involving position-if/position-if-not and subseq, perhaps 01:27:45 montell [i=612d8175@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-022a4bdf5de26cfb] has joined #lisp 01:28:08 -!- montell [i=612d8175@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-022a4bdf5de26cfb] has left #lisp 01:38:48 also, if by spaces you mean [ \t\v\f\n\r]+ and maybe a comma or two, cl-ppcre might fit better 01:39:15 nyef_ [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:15 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit [Success] 01:40:24 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:51:10 Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has joined #lisp 01:52:00 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r3a98.net.upc.cz] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:59:36 tessier [n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com] has joined #lisp 02:00:41 OberWork` [n=user@32.97.110.63] has joined #lisp 02:01:02 -!- OberWork [n=user@32.97.110.63] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:04:15 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp388.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 02:08:32 What's a standard function I can call that will sleep forever and never return? 02:08:40 S11001001: (loop) 02:08:54 I like my CPU too much for that 02:09:14 *p_l* just finished libid3 bindings... after approximately ten minutes of real work 02:09:30 p_l: there was no need to do them all :) 02:09:31 (loop (sleep 666666666)) 02:09:40 yesh, I guess 02:09:40 S11001001: what, there's one already? ;P 02:09:43 most-positive-fixnum 02:09:43 S11001001: (loop (sleep ... yeah, what hefner says, though I'd have picked a different constant. 02:09:46 (read) from standard input, and never type anything 02:09:51 unfortunately, (sleep sb-ext:single-float-positive-infinity) won't work. 02:09:54 I pick MPF 02:10:13 S11001001: Use most-positive-bignum! 02:10:31 now time for lispy side of taglib 02:10:33 not enough memory to use that nyef_ :) 02:10:35 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:10:39 restarting every 10 hours (min is like 2³¹ right?) 02:10:43 is acceptable, so MPF it is 02:11:13 S11001001: for MPF? 2^16. 02:11:19 er, right 02:11:31 *hefner* wonders if he's complained about slime's polling loop lately 02:11:31 when I put ³¹ I meant to put ¹ 02:11:31 nyef_: fixed a slight bug involving REX and the 0F byte in some SSE instructions (: 02:11:41 but ¹ is twice as good 02:12:11 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:12:51 I've been using nasm, xxd and ndisasm to debug sb-disassem :| 02:13:47 pkhuong: awesome! I live nasm. I even keep a shell script around that edits a temporary file, assembles it, then disassembles to a listing so I can see the hex. 02:13:55 live, love, whatever. 02:15:36 pkhuong: Cool. 02:15:43 hefner: loop, sap-ref-8, format, xxd, ndisasm, when the disassembler isn't up to date. 02:15:57 It might be amusing to see 0F given its original proper name one day: POP CS. 02:16:04 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:17:26 BYTE 4[something] / SSE instruction was fishy. 02:17:29 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:18:30 sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:51 -!- g06|in [n=Spitfire@cpe-71-74-84-48.insight.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:21:41 CMPPDLT or CMPPD LT? (intel actually wants CMPLTPD) 02:22:12 Which way is it specified for emission? 02:22:33 Actually, can you arrange for it to be generated asa CMPLTPD? 02:22:43 (inst cmppd cc ...) 02:23:10 frankly, I find the intel way really hard to read, with the condition hidden in the middle of the opcode. 02:23:22 but, yeah, I could arrange it. 02:23:46 who is Nick Levine? 02:24:00 Principle of least surprise for the unsuspecting users comes into play here, I think. 02:24:31 "CMPPD LT ..." looks most like the way we write it. 02:25:19 pkhuong: any chances for AVX support? (even though I won't get AVX-enabled CPU for some time) :D 02:25:43 p_l: after SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4 and SSE4.1. 02:26:24 pkhuong: is there any up-to-date page explaining SBCL's coverage of x86/x86-64 instruction set extensions? 02:26:27 Jcc is a precedent for doing it the intel way. 02:26:51 p_l: grep src/compiler/$ARCH/insts.lisp 02:26:54 heh 02:27:09 *p_l* wonders what would be required to add PGO to SBCL 02:27:29 *hefner* wrote about 25% of an x86 disassembler (the interesting bits) a couple years ago, but probably should've just stolen SBCL's 02:27:38 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-067-251.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:28:12 hefner: it looks like one hell of a puzzle. I'd probably try and extract everything from intel's docs (+ some manual cleaning of mistakes and typos) 02:28:47 Isn't there usually a set of decoding tables in one of the appendices? 02:29:55 I had a clever test suite of sorts, because I could take listings of big programs out of IDA Pro and use them to spot instructions I didn't handle (or handled wrong, on one side or the other) 02:30:21 nyef_: yes, there is. Add support for REX and I think it's good to go. I'm not sure how it describes swapped operands (mem-to-reg/reg-to-mem). 02:30:37 nyef_: so, what's least surprise? Intel way or the way we write it? 02:30:51 Least surprise is Intel way. 02:31:21 Because only compiler maintainers and those doing special hacks would see the way we write it, whereas any normal user might want to use DISASSEMBLE. 02:31:29 bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@CPE00179ab667a9-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:32:52 it was a big surprise when I tried to write a VOP involving Jcc ;) 02:33:56 I bet. 02:34:12 But, again, we're not optimizing for least surprise for new compiler hackers. 02:35:33 For movlhps, otoh, I've given up. 02:36:16 Mmm... I suspect that I may have to largely re-structure the hacking I did for the ARM port instructions. 02:40:02 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 02:48:10 I suppose that means prefetchnta instead of prefetch nta. 02:50:40 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:54:56 JFT [n=JFT@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:55:51 -!- JFT [n=JFT@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 02:56:01 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:56:51 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 03:02:16 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.133.213] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:03:55 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:07:34 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 03:18:51 drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:32 `toro [n=nonamme@cpe-74-64-125-220.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:24:33 <`toro> hi 03:25:27 <`toro> how do I continue after having evaluating a line ? I just entered C-x C-e and need to continue after this. I don't wanna messed it up this time. 03:27:02 continue what? 03:29:18 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE00179ab667a9-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:30:35 -!- nyef_ [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 03:30:47 drforr [n=drforr@pool-173-55-19-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:52 -!- Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:40:11 The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087BB65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:27 <`toro> got it, I had to press enter and went back to the *scratch* buffer. 03:40:38 <`toro> continue pasting code. 03:42:32 -!- bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@CPE00179ab667a9-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:50:46 hefner: do you have code that stress tests complex float arithmetic? 03:52:56 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087CE4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:53:40 -!- borsman [n=quassel@76.177.217.216] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:54:16 <`toro> mm.. neat 03:54:52 -!- Zenton`` [n=user@80.29.224.179] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:55:16 amblerc [n=user@24-180-81-97.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:42 ejs [n=eugen@151-204-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:06 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:58:49 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.135.206] has joined #lisp 03:59:37 -!- amblerc is now known as amblerc_ 04:00:08 -!- amblerc_ is now known as amblerc 04:00:24 -!- amblerc [n=user@24-180-81-97.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:03:52 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:05:38 pkhuong: maybe, kind of, depending what you're interested in. my clim spectrum analyzer hack operates mostly on complex double-float arrays, with beach's fft code doing most of the work. 04:07:03 and you're doing actual complex arithmetic in there, or do you destructure the complexes in real and imaginary parts? 04:07:34 no, it's all (complex double-float) 04:09:19 We'll see if packing complexes in a single SSE register helps tomorrow morning then. 04:09:45 hmm, neat. 04:11:36 _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E43C71.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:14 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 04:17:13 ..shame I never optimized that code.. 04:17:50 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-17-207-207.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:18 -!- |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E476AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:20:15 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:24:29 Good morning. 04:28:13 morning. 04:35:15 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:36 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-17-207-207.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:37:45 <`toro> great messed up, gotta nap :) 04:37:54 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:43:12 kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:01 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-167-159.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:49:18 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-167-159.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:36 -!- ejs [n=eugen@151-204-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:58:09 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-74-101.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:00:32 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:07:25 Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has joined #lisp 05:12:11 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has left #lisp 05:19:27 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp388.studby.uio.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:32:34 wentbackward_ [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 05:33:30 Hi, could someone sanity check me! I've defined aif in the usual way, however now loading it with asdf causes the IT variable to adopt a whole package name and no longer works 05:34:05 how can I put aif in a separate package but have IT not pick up the package name? 05:34:18 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-234-188.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 05:44:19 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 05:46:00 <_3b> wentbackward_: are you sure you don't just want to export IT from the package with AIF? 05:46:58 <_3b> having a symbol with no package would probably work even less than one with a package you don't like 05:47:33 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:48:47 wentbackward_: there is no such thing as "not picking up the package name". 05:49:43 <_3b> beach: sure there is, #:it for example... not that such things would help here :) 05:49:46 Sorry I meant picking up the package name where the macro was defined, rather than IT becoming a variable in my current package 05:49:59 where I use the macro 05:49:59 <_3b> IT is a symbol 05:50:04 <_3b> variables are not in packages 05:51:02 _3b: I know that there are symbols that are not interned in any package, but there is no such thing as "picking up a package name". 05:51:02 It seems that if I (require) my package in cl-user then defpackage/use-package my package, and my defpackage also specifies a use clause, this problem occurs 05:51:33 wentbackward_: You are confused. 05:51:47 wentbackward_: REQUIRE doesn't work on packages. 05:51:59 beach: I certainly am 05:53:40 wentbackward_: You must make sure that: IT is exported from the same package that contains AIF, that you never ever typed IT in CL-USER before doing a USE-PACKAGE. 05:57:53 -!- drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:57:57 wentbackward_: If you do a DEFPACKAGE to create a "client package" that does a :use of your AIF package, then things should work provided that IT was exported from the AIF package. 05:59:10 wentbackward_: Of course, if you type (describe 'it) in CL-USER, then you will create another symbol named "IT" in CL-USER. On the other hand, if you do (in-package :client-package) and THEN (describe 'it), you should see the right symbol. 06:00:39 wentbackward pasted "Doing something daft" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80361 06:00:40 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 06:01:41 I've got something working, but hoping to actually understand what I'm doing wrong. I've pasted one way which works followed by me doing something wrong which gives the problem 06:02:41 wentbackward_: the PAT package doesn't use the package where AIF is defined. 06:02:57 oops sorry. Maybe it does. 06:03:04 -!- sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:03:26 In what package is AIF defined? 06:03:43 It's in macro-utilities 06:03:54 (nickname :mut) 06:04:12 wentbackward_: The only explanation I can see is that IT is not exported by :mut. 06:04:53 wentbackward_: Oh, no wait. It is correct. 06:05:06 wentbackward_: What is your problem. It is working! 06:06:17 <_3b> looks to me like IT isn't exported 06:06:24 It works if I remove the :use clause on my package 06:06:41 <_3b> if you mean the first example, it didn't work ther either 06:06:46 restart your lisp, if you haven't. your packages might be all screwed up. 06:06:55 wentbackward_: you have several packages of yours. Which one do you refer to? 06:06:56 <_3b> notice the AIF didn't get expanded 06:07:07 In the second case it did. 06:07:53 But there are two IT symbols there, and the one that came from PRINT IT doesn't come from the :mut package, so I am guessing as well that IT is not exported. 06:08:21 wentbackward_: If you think your first example is working, it isn't. 06:09:05 wentbackward_: can you show us the defpackage form of :mut? 06:10:39 wentbackward annotated #80361 "mut" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80361#1 06:11:03 wentbackward_: As we have been telling you, IT is not exported there. 06:12:24 wentbackward_: If you don't export it, then you will get two different symbols named IT, one in the :mut package which is going to be in the macro expansion of AIF, and the other that you created in :pat when you typed (PRINT IT). 06:13:37 wentbackward_: Your expansion should show (let ((MUT:IT (+ 1 1))) (IF MUT:IT (PRINT MUT:IT) NIL)) 06:13:42 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-134-135.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:54 greetings 06:13:58 hello fusss 06:14:07 hey beach :-) 06:14:26 ok, got it now! 06:14:38 wentbackward_: Is it working? 06:14:41 So even though It is created via a let in the macro, it still needs to be exported 06:14:53 beach: yes working 06:15:06 wentbackward_: The symbol is not created in the let, it is created when the code is read by READ. 06:16:14 wentbackward_: so when you type (print it) and the current package is :pat, the reader is going to consult that package to see if it has a symbol named PRINT (which it does, it comes form CL), and if it has a symbol called IT, which it doesn't so it creates it in :pat. 06:18:14 *beach* vanishes 06:18:46 ok, thankyou beach (and everyone else!) 06:30:03 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["trying new font"] 06:30:25 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:43:38 gh7d395pi69wd [n=d23zbgfd@unaffiliated/gh7d395pi69wd] has joined #lisp 06:46:25 -!- drforr [n=drforr@pool-173-55-19-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:46:37 drforr [n=drforr@pool-173-55-19-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:57 sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:50:33 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:51:03 -!- gh7d395pi69wd [n=d23zbgfd@unaffiliated/gh7d395pi69wd] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:51:17 gh7d395pi69wd [n=d23zbgfd@unaffiliated/gh7d395pi69wd] has joined #lisp 06:51:33 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 06:53:33 -!- ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:54:27 there really should be a way in OSes/desktops and/or (graphic) editors to select a set of fonts as your "working" set. maybe select a few and bring them to the top of any font-selection dialog. 06:54:55 fusss: some apps do that 06:55:00 i'm getting RSI scrolling back and forth in a slow-populating font selection thing 06:55:18 as in "you can have that by using custom font selection dialog" 06:55:34 at least on Word and Creative Suite I stopped scrolling :D 06:56:10 klevar, http://www.dafont.com/img/illustration/a/m/amerika_sans.gif :-) 06:56:47 not the gnu things, but then, problems with gnu things are one's fault ;-) 06:58:23 Design is mostly ?? 06:58:31 qo? 06:58:58 ego :-) 06:59:16 lol 06:59:43 and the statement is itself questioned by the speaker, notice its own shape as a question mark 07:01:05 the colors are carefully chosen to reflect the speakers political mood, as one imprisoned by an all too powerful totalitarian state, as Hannah Arendt said 07:01:40 *fusss* has been an art critic ever since discovering deviant art, roughly 45 minutes ago 07:01:47 lol 07:02:03 to really express totalitarian state, study techniques of russian poster art 07:02:14 kitsch 07:02:49 soviet union had the BEST! PROPAGANDA! POSTERS! EVER! :P 07:03:16 and everyone chuckled under their breath at them 07:03:38 fusss: seriously, they are great 07:03:38 the slavs are subversive bastards. it's the germans who fell for propaganda, big time, imo. 07:03:49 p_l: idunno, what are North Korean propaganda posters like? I haven't seen any 07:03:57 but I expect great things from them ;) 07:04:01 WhiteFlame: Probably based off soviet art 07:04:08 like PRC 07:04:33 can only applaud such choice 07:04:35 http://www.cccpfashion.com/posters/CCCP-USSR-Poster2.jpg 07:04:38 I want to see Kim Jong Il battling Godzilla or something 07:04:39 hehe.. "We want YOU!" 07:05:52 http://www.cccpfashion.com/posters/CCCP-USSR-Poster12.jpg 07:05:54 jmbr__ [n=jmbr@139.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:06:13 it's fashionable to mock stalinism, but i would be careful to dismiss the soviet revolution wholesale 07:07:01 I don't mock it. I wonder what would grow out of USSR if Stalin never got the power he usurped 07:07:53 they were actually getting economy back into working order with carefully moderated version of capitalism 07:08:06 it would have been torn apart sooner by a band of impassioned, idealistic idiots 07:08:08 the five year plans? :) 07:08:24 kleppari: no, the "new economic plan" 07:08:34 or something like that, I don't remember the name 07:08:37 Stalin hated it 07:08:52 new economic policy? 07:08:58 something like that 07:09:17 the five year plans produced some remarkable results at times, though 07:10:38 Well, USSR had the advantage that a) they actually promoted science and knowledge, even if short-term political gains sometimes clouded that 2) they could force some things without worrying about getting voted out of office in 4y 07:12:55 the second advantage is very powerful one... 07:12:59 I'd like a voting system that allows me to transfer my vote instantly between candidates, any time in the term 07:13:36 kleppari: I think it's called anarchy and you downvote with a rifle ;-) 07:13:46 i.e. if politician-A fucks up, I can remove my vote from him and vote B or C. If enough people remove their vote from A, he's removed from office 07:13:57 p_l: well, most of the time you can't put it that way 07:14:03 although, that'd be alot simpler to implement 07:14:11 kleppari: The problem with that is that nothing would get done 07:14:41 I seriously doubt that politicians are doing something sensible most of the time, anyways 07:14:47 valvola [n=fabiovio@host71-173-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:14:49 at least they don't seem to around here 07:15:22 unfortunately, there is no good way right now. The fact that they play a circus show to have enough votes not to worry about future career is one of the reasons 07:15:49 so no long-term planning or work gets done 07:16:24 well, I still think that people are too forgiving of politicians 07:16:38 you forget alot of stuff in a >4 year term 07:16:55 it sometimes backfires, though, when the cadency gets cut in half and the voters that were considered "not important" showed it down politicians throat after 2y ^___^ 07:17:07 -!- valvola [n=fabiovio@host71-173-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:17:38 heh, yeah 07:17:47 valvola [n=fabiovio@host71-173-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:17:50 we just finished voting for a new government, two years early.. 07:18:11 *p_l* was among those "angry voters" that swarmed voting points in biggest swarm since first free elections in Poland ^_^ 07:18:24 voting points? 07:18:40 kleppari: whatever you call places you go to vote 07:18:43 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:18:50 ahh, sorry 07:19:01 and what did you do? 07:19:06 sit down in the booth and take a nap? :) 07:19:16 Voted the old government out :P 07:19:46 most memorable quote: "Those brats have gone to vote! WE ARE FUCKED!" 07:19:53 heheh 07:20:05 the turnout always been low? 07:20:09 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 07:20:44 it was getting lower and lower and then-current gov. relied a lot on support from older people, mostly associated with fanatic christian faction 07:21:23 I remember how the next day, in high school, the worst thing you could admit was "I didn't go to vote" 07:21:32 heh 07:21:32 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@7.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:21:36 that's how it should be 07:22:01 even if it's just turning up to put an empty vote in the box 07:22:17 in this case there was "everyone, except them" 07:22:25 the last few months were really a wakeup call for the politicians here 07:22:57 it's amazing what few hundred people and a dash of civil disobedience in front of the parliament can accomplish 07:23:07 I'd call "massive protests organised throughout high and middle schools as well as some elementary schoolkids" a pretty big wakeup call :D 07:23:26 hehe, yeah 07:24:40 and it was only because of one minister of education, and not the biggest thing 07:25:27 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-27-96.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:26:44 *sigh* - It's 7:30 on a sunday morning. Night all. :) 07:27:22 08:26 here ;-) 07:28:35 -!- drwhen [n=d@66-230-84-151-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:35:29 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-134-135.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:35:44 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:36:38 -!- valvola [n=fabiovio@host71-173-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:40:25 -!- ia__ [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:41:06 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-29-126.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:44:33 meltingwax [n=meltingw@unaffiliated/meltingwax] has joined #lisp 07:56:33 vy [n=user@88.229.232.85] has joined #lisp 07:56:47 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-229.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:56:48 ia__ [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 08:02:28 elias` [n=me@resnet-pat-254.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:06:53 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-134-135.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:48 -!- vy [n=user@88.229.232.85] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:19:25 -!- sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:24:08 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 08:24:41 rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-109.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:25:41 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:28:47 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:59 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 08:35:02 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c121h014.wless.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 08:36:22 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-234-188.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 08:45:20 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:49:42 morning 08:51:14 semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 08:52:20 -!- anekos is now known as awaykoes 08:52:38 -!- awaykoes is now known as Namekuji 08:54:27 hello nikodemus 08:59:49 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:11:54 hi 09:14:30 prabuinet [n=prabu@117.193.196.244] has joined #lisp 09:15:04 does sbcl support stepping in slime ? 09:16:14 ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 09:16:31 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:17:49 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 09:18:31 prabuinet: yes, though you need to compile your code with a high DEBUG level for it to be of any use 09:19:25 nikodemus; how to compile in high DEBUG level 09:19:52 eg. stick (declaim (optimize debug)) on top of the file, and recompile 09:23:42 nikodemus pasted "stepping example" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80363 09:23:46 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:24:21 nikodemus: thanks, it works 09:26:54 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 09:27:08 mjf [n=mjf@r3a98.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 09:35:24 nikodemus: is it possible to set a break point without (break) 09:35:32 nope 09:35:47 well, actually, i lie 09:36:00 if i set with break i'm not able to inspect local variables, why? 09:36:26 (trace bar :break t) 09:36:35 works at least in SBCL and CMUCL 09:37:32 try hitting enter on the frame in the slime debugger to see available locals 09:38:22 again, compiling with high DEBUG makes more information re. eg. locals available 09:38:53 hmm, reduce doesn't work on macros, right? is there a way to make set the arguments of a macro as the elements of a list? 09:39:09 eh? 09:40:04 maybe you want (reduce (lambda (x y) (my-macro x y)) seq), but i don't understand the question 09:41:35 nikodemus: i'm able to see the local vars after hitting enter 09:42:54 nikodemus: I have a macro (with-login-do), that modifies the arguments and then eval them with progn, and another function that returns the elements I want to use with (with-login-do) in a list. It it was a function, I could use (reduce #'with-login-do (operations)), but since it is a macro, how could I proceed? 09:43:14 *if it 09:43:26 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 09:44:06 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:45:01 drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:08 nikodemus: thanks again, i'm using lisp for more than a year, only today i found how to single step in slime 09:47:19 nikodemus pasted "a dirty trick i sometimes use" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80364 09:50:02 konr: (dolist (op (operations)) (with-login-do op)) maybe? without knowing more about your macro, it's impossible to know 09:51:16 -!- drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:51:33 nikodemus: it would work, but it would be inefficient. (with-login-do) makes http requests and set cookies and other things... I guess I'll have to remake my macro, then 09:52:02 nikodemus: that's a dirty trick indeed. 09:52:13 konr: so you want to login once, and then do a bunch of operations? 09:52:21 nikodemus: yes 09:52:55 decompose: (with-login (login) (dolist (op (operations)) (perform-operation op))) 09:53:40 drewc: no worrying about the package i'm in :) 09:54:20 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 09:55:32 nikodemus: it's alway slightly bothered me that slot names cannot be in the keyword package. 09:58:18 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 10:07:48 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 10:07:54 drewc: why? not enough name clashes? 10:08:49 wow, i wonder who will have lisppaste #80386 10:10:45 ... I predict mass spamming to get 80386 10:10:57 and then further numbers ;-) 10:11:47 *p_l* in meantime checks where 21064, 21164, 21264 and 21364 go 10:13:08 michaelw: but why _not_... that's the question :) 10:14:07 ... 21364 doesn't resolv to anything, 21164 (EV5x) and 21464 (EV8) point to Objective-C code, rest (EV4 and EV6) is Lisp :3 10:15:15 dammit, sun is up 10:15:20 nite folks! 10:15:21 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-134-135.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 10:15:25 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 10:15:33 drewc: why can't we (defun :f () ...)? 10:16:02 michaelw: can't we? 10:18:57 huh 10:19:18 apparently we can. thought that's not allowed. 10:20:22 does anyone know how to constrain the size of a window to x pixels high? (Ltk) 10:20:54 we can't bind them as variables, though, and the CLHS says something about slot-names having to be valid as variables, or something equally silly.. 10:21:11 "The slot-name argument is a symbol that is syntactically valid for use as a variable name." 10:22:05 drafael: just remember that your size might be ignored 10:22:05 Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has joined #lisp 10:22:28 drewc: ah, there we go 10:23:09 michaelw: i suppose this is so with-slots can work 10:23:18 yeah 10:23:27 p_l: I don't know how to set it in the first place for it to be ignored unfortunately :( 10:23:38 well, i answered my own question then didn't i :) 10:24:09 then again, slot-value (and hence with-slots) was probably not such a hot idea 10:25:04 you can pass :width and :height to geometry manager, afaik 10:26:29 Oh, (minsize toplevel width height), (maxsize toplevel width height), (set-geometry toplevel width height x y) 10:27:28 great, thanks :D I didn't look hard enough 10:29:01 michaelw: what's wrong with slot-value? 10:30:10 should've been just accessors; and svuc on the meta-level 10:31:16 i mean, svuc is an efficiency issue 10:31:34 michaelw: i could do without with-slots, but i use slot-value all the time. 10:31:49 well.. actually i don't ... 10:32:06 some meta-level code does, and it could as easily have been svuc... 10:32:07 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 10:32:07 drewc: yeah, my point is you could do with just accessors 10:32:22 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F553.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:52 michaelw: slot-value can't have methods defined on in, save of course for on svuc.. that's an advantage in some situations. 10:34:33 drewc: not really, it removes options for others 10:34:41 also, (defclass foo () ((x :reader foo-x :reader foo1-x :accessor %foo-x))) is perfectly fine 10:35:28 you could then use %foo-x instead of slot-value 10:38:33 michaelw: i often use slot-value when the slot is only used for some internal bookeeping and not intended to be a part of the protocol 10:39:27 yes, hence %foo-x. you'd only export FOO-X, for example 10:43:25 i suppose, but i still like slot-value. I could do without with-slots though :) 10:44:27 ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 10:46:13 drewc: can you qualify "like slot-value"? is there something I am overlooking? (serious interest, I've been thinking about a MOP without slot-value) 10:49:50 -!- The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087BB65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["I am Locutus of Borg! You will assist us!"] 10:49:56 The-Kenny [n=moritz@81-89-110-221.blue.kundencontroller.de] has joined #lisp 10:50:36 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@81-89-110-221.blue.kundencontroller.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:50:53 slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-142-134.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 10:51:02 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BB65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:26 michaelw: accessors are generic functions, slot-value grabs a value from a vector (by default) . i think these are useful distinctions. 10:54:00 jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 10:54:05 slots have names and values, so one should be able to access the values by name. 10:54:22 if you want to do away with slot names, i could see doing away with slot-value. 10:55:53 I see your names/values point, but svuc muddles the GF argument. 10:55:53 well, that's maybe a bit extreme :D 10:56:05 as for doing away with slot names... yes :) 10:57:11 well, SVUC does indeed muddy the waters somewhat, hence my (by default), but i still think there is value to slot-value. 10:58:24 and i'm much too tired to articulate my reasons, so i'm off to bed. 10:59:10 another time :) 10:59:33 jophish [n=jophish@dial-80-47-3-226.access.uk.tiscali.com] has joined #lisp 11:07:31 I_got_superpages [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:08:49 is there a de facto standard Cocoa lib for CL at the moment? objective-cl seems like a winner, but I was wondering if anyone here knew of anything better 11:08:51 nikodemus annotated #79633 "this should do it -- not tested, though" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79633#6 11:09:26 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c121h014.wless.reed.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:10:28 ltriant: nope, unless you count ccl's cocoa bridge 11:10:56 ccl = clozure cl? 11:11:20 yes 11:11:45 ok, thank you 11:12:12 well, there's also cl-objc, fwiw 11:13:24 and slyrus IIRC had something sbcl-specific 11:13:39 ah yeah, just found a reference to cl-objc on the objective-cl page - thanks 11:13:44 ltriant: I guess that if you want to develop for OSX, CCL is your best choice 11:13:47 in other words: what nikodemus said :) 11:14:56 HG` [n=wells@xdslec048.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:15:54 what might myParameter is malformed in a function mean? 11:16:51 -!- WhiteFlame [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [] 11:17:27 jimi_hendrix: is that an exact error message? 11:18:28 The LET binding spec (CL-UTILITIES:SPLIT-SEQUENCE #\ STR) is malformed. << i am assigning a variable that value in a let 11:18:40 the value that is returned 11:18:44 str is a parameter 11:21:13 bah g2g for a bit, i will be back when i return for the answer 11:22:40 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r3a98.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:25:05 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c022h039.dorm.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 11:26:08 -!- jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:26:19 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:26:32 jthing [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 11:27:10 jimi_hendrix: (let ((foo (split-sequence #\ str))) ..do-stuff-with-foo...) ; FOO is the variable bound in this LET. your LET is malformed 11:28:19 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 11:41:43 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 11:43:50 sellout [n=greg@96.227.247.162] has joined #lisp 11:44:04 vy [n=user@wr527.cs.bilkent.edu.tr] has joined #lisp 11:46:43 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:32 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:48:53 tombom_ [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 11:51:35 sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:44 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp123.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 11:53:35 montacarichi_ [n=montacar@host37-174-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:54:39 -!- montacarichi_ [n=montacar@host37-174-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 11:57:33 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c022h039.dorm.reed.edu] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 11:57:56 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:59:19 is there anything like with-all-slots ? 12:01:14 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:01:15 -!- tombom_ is now known as tombom 12:01:37 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 12:03:30 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-124-174.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:04:42 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BB65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:08:40 -!- jmbr__ [n=jmbr@139.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:09:45 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:12:41 i don't think it's a good idea 12:15:32 does someone have a non-recent sbcl handy? 12:15:45 -!- sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:15:47 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:55 nikodemus: is 1.0.23 enough ? 12:20:47 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:21:05 nevermind, i found one here already 12:23:33 CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.113.181] has joined #lisp 12:25:16 I'm having some trouble making a standalone sbcl binary, I keep getting "invalid magic number in core:" when trying to load it 12:25:59 you can't load a core saved with :executable t using --core 12:26:11 you just run as a normal executable 12:26:17 ah! 12:26:22 of course, thanks 12:32:22 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:52 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 12:38:35 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:39:27 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c121h014.wless.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 12:39:45 sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:40:19 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-17-207-207.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:09 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-251-220.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:42:03 -!- jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:42:03 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:42:47 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 12:42:53 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-251-220.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:01 Xof: aroundp 12:45:42 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 12:45:47 minion: memo for Xof: when you have a moment, can you check that 1.0.28.53 doesn't break some cross-compiler assumption that i failed to notice -- i can fix the issue by hacking the cold fops in genesis as well, but this seemed like the simpler option 12:45:47 Remembered. I'll tell Xof when he/she/it next speaks. 12:48:02 nikodemus: thanks...i was just missing a pair of parens...annoying when that happens 12:48:41 macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:52:25 gh79d395pi69wd [n=gh7d395p@d75-157-249-24.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:25 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 12:57:17 prabu_ [n=prabu@117.193.199.146] has joined #lisp 12:58:48 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:59:10 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:02:59 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-17-207-207.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:03:49 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-203-235.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:50 when i evaluate this: (socket-bind (make-instance 'inet-socket :type :stream :protocol :tcp) (vector 192 168 1 119) 49999) i get an error: Socket error in "bind": 2 (No such file or directory) why is that? 13:05:29 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:07 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079167.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:59 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-25-142-134.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:11:08 -!- ampleyfly [n=ampleyfl@mustang.lysator.liu.se] has left #lisp 13:11:57 what's socket-bind? 13:12:13 it is in sb-bsd-sockets: 13:12:21 my guess is that the address has problems 13:12:54 -!- gh7d395pi69wd [n=d23zbgfd@unaffiliated/gh7d395pi69wd] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:13:42 thanks that was actually the problem 13:14:01 the no such file or directory error is a bit confusing tho 13:14:22 blame the kernel 13:14:30 or libc, rather 13:14:44 -!- semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has quit ["leaving"] 13:14:46 i get Socket error in "bind": 49 (Can't assign requested address) 13:14:46 for the same address 13:15:01 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:15:36 because 192.168.1.119 is not your ip address? 13:16:26 what i don't know about sockets fills many books -- no real idea, in other words 13:16:54 -!- prabuinet [n=prabu@117.193.196.244] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:17:16 is there a way to collect the rest of a list i am looping through? i only want to collect it if something is true... 13:17:36 (i assumed that it wasn't your address either as bind did not like it) 13:17:49 jimi_hendrix: then you need for ... on 13:18:12 nikodemus: it was my address but the socket was allready bound 13:18:18 ah 13:19:58 nikodemus: any ideas on what things need to be done with sb-bsd-sockets 13:20:39 you mentioned a test suite before to me 13:21:31 xristos: i don't properly know 13:21:51 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [] 13:22:04 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2D90E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:29 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2ED2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:22:32 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 13:23:24 -!- ASau is now known as ASau_ 13:23:52 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 13:24:02 ? 13:28:02 maybe you could use a read character, prabu_ .. http://paste.lisp.org/display/80372 13:28:26 or something 13:30:10 ..do not have to use a special variable i guess 13:34:21 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:13 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:39:17 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 13:41:26 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-251-220.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:42:11 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:45:07 is there a way i can break out of a loop returning the value of i (loop for i in list do ...) 13:45:26 (return i) 13:45:33 jimi_hendrix: when (f i) return i 13:45:39 ok 13:45:40 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["leaving"] 13:46:34 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079167.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:46:35 jimi_hendrix: PCL has a chapter on LOOP 13:46:36 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 13:47:17 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 13:49:56 hsaliak [n=hsaliak@bb116-15-29-118.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:55:10 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:14 G'morning all. 13:55:56 jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 13:57:17 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp123.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 14:01:25 hi nyef 14:01:53 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:01:57 jmbr [n=jmbr@161.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:02:02 -!- jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:02:14 -!- sellout [n=greg@96.227.247.162] has quit [] 14:03:06 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-17-207-207.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:16 mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c1a3df2140222c8e] has joined #lisp 14:05:29 <`toro> ~++++ 14:06:44 ATZ 14:07:04 heh 14:08:15 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.113.181] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:09:25 is there a way to recurse in a lambda 14:09:37 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:09:53 Y combinator 14:10:04 ? 14:10:10 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:40 jimi_hendrix: or you can use labels inside it 14:10:54 (lambda (...) (labels ((rec (...) ...)) (rec ...)) 14:13:21 (inst shr tmp n-widetag-bits) 14:13:21 (inst shl tmp 3) 14:13:25 wtf? 14:13:51 pkhuong: Shorter than the equivalent AND, maybe? 14:13:58 Oh, no, that's not it. 14:14:29 It's pulling the data field of an immediate object into a fixnum on a 64-bit system. 14:15:26 The literal 3 should probably be n-fixnum-lowtag-bits or whatever it's called. 14:15:47 and then uses the fixnumised value to build an EA. sigh. 14:16:08 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 14:16:14 Is it normal to have two dangling commits, two dangling blobs, and eight dangling trees listed when you run git fsck? 14:16:16 projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 14:16:51 Ah, but it's not the index. 14:17:32 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@93-36-1-24.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 14:17:41 ... It's the base? 14:17:45 i seem to have plenty of dangling blobs at least 14:18:04 Hrm. I kindof recognize these two dangling commits, though. 14:18:08 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:18:26 nyef: you recognize a SHA1 hash ? 14:18:36 No, but you can feed the sha1 hash to git show. 14:19:50 oh :D 14:19:55 jimi_hendrix, maybe http://paste.lisp.org/display/80374 14:19:59 all my blobs seem to be files with conflict markers in them 14:20:06 ..not sure i got that right though 14:20:48 Yeah, this might be detrius from a merge. The diffs all have doubled + and - at line start. 14:21:33 And they're clearly the alien stuff I did recently. The (* t) pointer thing and the integer result thing. 14:21:41 ,cd 14:23:11 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:46 sepult_ [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-75-92.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:27:29 oh, nifty! 30% speedup on DEFLATE-FILE. /me wants the new boinkmarks... 14:27:53 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-74-101.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:29:21 nikodemus: so what's the magic wrt raw slow location of complex doubles? Raw slots are allocated back to front, is that it? 14:29:48 yes 14:29:54 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:30:08 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 14:30:35 not that i recall anything doubly magical about raw complexes, though 14:33:20 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-150-157.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 14:33:47 nikodemus: I was just wondering why there was a negative offset for the real slot instead of a positive one for the imag slot. 14:33:55 amblerc [n=user@24-180-81-97.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:39 oh, right 14:36:58 how's sse? 14:37:07 -!- amblerc [n=user@24-180-81-97.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:38:10 (i'm working on making fill use UB*-BASH-FILL right now, and it occurs to me that bashers would be natural candidates for SSE) 14:38:47 All the definitions for SSE and SSE2 should be there. The shuffling instructions are useful for packed complex-single-float. 14:39:14 -!- Namekuji is now known as anekos 14:39:24 And yes, bash fill/copy and various equality tests should show neat speed ups 14:39:58 i expect complex arithmetic is also a nice match 14:40:47 wtf? another bogus #(0.0 0.0) with the generic widetag? 14:42:45 *nyef* blames genesis. 14:43:19 hm, maybe this is leakage from the host 14:43:57 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:44:16 bah, what 14:44:21 no such thing any more 14:44:36 Oh, really? Specialized array types. 14:44:46 Floats. 14:46:24 assuming sufficiently sane host implementation 14:47:05 ; caught WARNING: 14:47:06 ; #C(0.0 0.0) is not (COMPLEX SINGLE-FLOAT) 14:47:10 during xc 14:47:49 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:33 in %SHRINK-VECTOR 14:50:45 Hrm. No, 1.0.28.52 does not fix the latin-9 bug. 14:51:01 (Or, rather, still has the latin-9 bug.) 14:51:18 for the record, I consider the patch in 1.0.28.53 broken 14:52:03 the correct way of doing this is not to dump any complexes whose target type can't be inferred from their host type 14:52:08 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@student167-189.hampshire.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:52:36 inferred with 100% reliability, or at least with documented constraints on what the host implementation has to do 14:52:47 please revert it 14:54:02 ok, i shall 14:55:34 (that's not to say that it's not still broken, just that that's the wrong fix and at least there weren't too many observable symptoms before) 14:55:38 schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-044-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:42 r1nu- [n=debian@ppp-94-67-188-33.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:56:51 -!- schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-044-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:56:51 good evening to all! 14:56:53 observable symptoms didn't occur because we didn't use saetp-initial-element-default in a way that would have exposed the issue :) 14:57:25 Krystof: does doing a typecase in cold-fop for generic complexes sound better? 14:59:08 My preferred option would be no: actually turn off all complex dumping, and arrange for the relevant things to be constructed in a toplevel form or with load-time-value 14:59:20 *nyef* notes that this path will likely end up with an FPU emulator in the cross-compiler environment. 14:59:32 right, we don't want that 14:59:37 We don't? 15:00:04 we do if someone who is otherwise unproductive does it 15:00:12 and sticks around to fix all the bugs in it 15:00:40 at least I am entirely happy with "we assume sufficiently-good IEEE single-float/double-float in the host compiler" 15:00:51 Or proves that there are no bugs in it? 15:01:09 ... when compiled with all possible host compilers? Good luck proving that 15:01:32 o hi lnostdal thanks 15:01:56 there's actually very little floating point arithmetic in the cross-compilation phase anyway: significantly less since last month, too 15:02:23 I don't know that I view that as a good thing, given the damage done to type derivation in the cross compiler. 15:07:41 -!- sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:08:13 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 15:11:08 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:11:53 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:12:58 -!- projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has quit [] 15:14:46 sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:05 -!- sepult_ [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-75-92.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:17:10 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BB65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:48 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c121h014.wless.reed.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:23:11 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-75-92.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:24:34 cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.26.243] has joined #lisp 15:24:39 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-75-92.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:25:08 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-75-92.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:27:36 nikodemus: in fact our complex scheme might be deterministic enough. a host complex is a target (complex single-float) if both of its parts are single-float, (complex double-float) if both of its parts are double-float, complex if both of its parts are rational, and it should be an error to try to dump something more mixed than that 15:28:13 (because anything mixed is unrepresentable in the target) 15:28:50 an implementation of dump/genesis which captures that would not be broken :-) 15:29:14 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:30:07 ... Isn't anything more mixed explicitly disallowed anyway? 15:30:58 -!- _stern_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E43C71.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 15:31:43 deylen [n=deylen@93-97-219-9.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:32:20 nyef: no, why? 15:32:23 -!- Ginei_Morioka [n=irssi_lo@78.112.42.110] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:32:31 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.146.14] has joined #lisp 15:32:47 Really? I was under the impression that the type system didn't really allow for it. 15:33:09 oh, sorry, you're right as per standard 15:33:19 implementations have explicit deviations from that 15:33:27 Ah, okay. 15:33:41 (for what I consider valid reasons, for a change :-) 15:34:22 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:36:12 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c022h039.dorm.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 15:37:07 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-124-174.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:37:08 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-203-235.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:38:04 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.146.14] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:38:11 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.146.14] has joined #lisp 15:42:13 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 15:42:48 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.133.213] has joined #lisp 15:44:09 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:48:21 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 15:53:39 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:55:25 -!- sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:58:04 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslec048.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:00:34 emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:09:53 blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:08 -!- deylen [n=deylen@93-97-219-9.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 16:11:42 -!- prabu_ [n=prabu@117.193.199.146] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:12:27 HG` [n=wells@xdslec048.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:15:55 Krystof: so verifying that the part types match at dump time makes it ok to dump complex single and double floats in xc? 16:16:27 benny99 [n=benny@p5486F598.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:37 yes: that is, it shouldn't be done with a typecase, but with explicit tests of realpart and imagpart 16:16:39 nikodemus pasted "like so?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80378 16:16:55 ... only 8 more pastes for 80386 16:17:03 ah, hm 16:17:05 i see 16:17:46 It's been a long time since 8086, and won't be long until 80486. 16:18:06 it even models cpu improvements? ;P 16:18:27 Too bad we weren't paying attention when it did 21264, huh? 16:19:19 nikodemus: it's possible under some implementation for #c(2 2) to be typep (complex double-float) 16:19:26 if upgraded-complex-part-type 'double-float is 'real 16:19:35 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 16:19:44 Um. This way lies trouble. 16:19:48 ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 16:20:17 We already have trouble with the compiler assuming that array type upgrading works properly. 16:20:26 nyef: yeah. Or 80110 16:20:38 hello, what is a runtime way of checking for a feature (find xyz *features*)? 16:21:17 You're now looking at possibly the compiler assuming that a float is (complex double-float) and getting something else because of differences in complex part type upgrading. 16:21:31 80{8,9}60 16:21:32 ignotus: Or MEMBER, yes. 16:21:59 pkhuong: there's still 80432 16:22:02 nyef: thanks 16:22:22 find is lossy if you're looking for CL:NIL, though ;) 16:22:38 ahh 16:22:40 nyef: featurep 16:22:54 Fair enough. 16:24:09 nikodemus annotated #80378 "gotcha, so like this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80378#1 16:24:39 modulo typos, of course 16:25:29 oh wait, no 16:25:40 to take care of nyef's concern it has to be... 16:26:30 (coerce (realpart x) 'single-float) ; etc, right? 16:27:35 so we dump according to the type of the complex, not its contents, and ensure that the contents end up with the right type? 16:28:16 I'd still be concerned about the compiler generating bogus code. 16:29:05 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:47 which happens when? we have a constant complex that is typep something on the host, and other on the target? 16:30:24 Possibly. 16:31:13 Zenton` [n=user@86.Red-88-31-98.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:32 so the answer would involved making sure we don't trust the host's typep too much 16:31:55 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 16:32:11 which amounts to the same as the annotation above, i think. reason about complexes based on their contents after all? 16:32:18 nikodemus: If you put an object which was stack-allocated into a weak hash-table, will the hash-table's entry correctly vanish when we move outside the object's dynamic-extent? 16:32:42 tcr: no, and there' no "correctly" about it 16:33:04 You should not be leaving the object's extent if there's still a reference from the hash table. 16:33:18 exactly 16:33:58 Slime does it when you inspect something in the debugger, then copy down the thing to the repl, a presentation will be created and that's implemented by a weak hash-table. 16:34:01 Pandala [n=Pandala@LPuteaux-156-16-28-243.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:34:10 that will end badly when you quit the debugger then 16:34:18 hence my question 16:34:28 so you want stack-allocated-p 16:34:33 right 16:34:39 tcr: you can detect. right. 16:34:49 or make it work for weak-hash-tables :P less work for me 16:34:59 -!- Pandala [n=Pandala@LPuteaux-156-16-28-243.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 16:35:14 that's not going to happen, i can tell 16:35:14 Unreasonable to do efficiently. 16:35:15 letexpx [n=letexpx@LPuteaux-156-16-28-243.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:37:01 How are they implemented? 16:37:45 tcr: weak hash tables? They're cleared by the GC. 16:38:15 anyone here a usocket pro? 16:38:58 pkhuong: Yes, but how? 16:40:10 tcr: they're kept in a list, and, at the end of the GC, objects in oldspace that haven't been forwarded to the newspace are dead. 16:40:28 nikodemus pasted "stack-allocated-p" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80379 16:41:00 nikodemus: Does that check against all thread control stacks, or just the current thread? 16:44:50 just the current one 16:44:55 like the docstring says 16:47:04 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:47:05 all bets are really off if you somehow have access to a stack allocated object on another thread's stack: it can go bad at any time 16:48:51 nikodemus: not if you have barriers, etc. 16:49:07 prabu_ [n=prabu@117.193.199.146] has joined #lisp 16:49:28 wee, packed complex floats! Now to add enough VOPs to make them not suck. 16:49:53 pkhuong: right, but if you don't know if the object is stack allocated or not, i'm betting you don't know about other the control flow of the other thread either 16:50:03 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:51:23 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-150-157.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:52:39 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 16:52:54 -!- letexpx [n=letexpx@LPuteaux-156-16-28-243.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:53:17 hi, is there a library someone can recommend that has awareness of events like key-up and key-down? 16:53:36 egn: in what context? 16:53:41 nikodemus: but it's not necessarily a programmer error, so to have slime create bogus references would probably be a bad thing. 16:53:57 pkhuong: true enough 16:54:17 i'll check against the heap instead 16:54:23 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 16:54:29 pkhuong: I want to be able to press and hold keys and have my program know "keys 'a' 's' 'd' are currently being held" 16:54:37 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 16:55:31 nikodemus: but that fails with malloced/mmapped "lisp" objects (although you're probably good enough to handle things yourself if you do that) 16:55:45 nikodemus: Can I somehow determine whether it was swept away under my feed? Or perhaps copy it to the heap? 16:56:03 that doesn't clear much your question. is it in X Window, command line, or something else? 16:56:25 nikodemus: In the case of Slime, the slime repl does run in a different thread 16:56:30 is there a way to check if there is something to read from a socket in usocket? 16:56:38 clhs listen 16:56:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_listen.htm 16:56:43 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 16:57:28 nikodemus: Can another thread access a stack-allocated object of a different thread as long as its extent has not ended? 16:59:05 -!- emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has left #lisp 16:59:54 coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:25 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:04:32 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c022h039.dorm.reed.edu] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:04:56 r00t_ [n=r00t@115.241.110.83] has joined #lisp 17:05:09 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.26.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:05:14 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.117.81] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:06:06 -!- r00t_ [n=r00t@115.241.110.83] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:06:23 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:00 timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:07:04 -!- timor [n=martin@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #lisp 17:07:43 nikodemus annotated #80379 "take two" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80379#1 17:08:33 tcr: yes 17:09:25 how can stack-allocated-p and heap-allocated-p both be false? 17:09:40 if it was stack allocated by another thread 17:09:47 if HEAP-ALLOCATED-P returns true for the object, copy-down is safe 17:09:47 ah ok 17:10:29 Well, it's not just copy-down, it's also that an inspector could still be open 17:10:36 rumbleca [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:50 they can both also be false in the case of objects allocated outside the lisp heap as pkhuong noted 17:11:27 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:12:13 #+sb-xc-host (error "can't dump COMPLEX-LONG-FLOAT in cross-compiler") 17:12:30 nikodemus: apart from that, paste 80378 looks better 17:14:12 Let's say O is an object which is stack-allocated; isn't it possible to determine whether it's not valid anymore? We knew the object, so we could create some kind of fingerprint (consisting of type, perhaps first element if compound object or something like that), then we'd peek at the old memory location and compare the current content with the fingerprint? 17:15:10 semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 17:15:12 tcr: some arbitrary amount of the object could have been overwritten with new objects, with your fingerprint being the same 17:15:18 because the stack isn't zeroed on teardown 17:15:36 ok 17:15:49 and it would have a non-zero cost, and stack allocation is all about efficiency 17:16:59 sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:26 -> allocation regions... which wouldn't be that much work if it weren't for the amount of caching hidden in the runtime. 17:17:39 Sure. What you pasted is good enough for a big warning. Could it get into sbcl, please? 17:17:52 planning to 17:17:56 Thanks 17:18:03 some other stuff in the queue first 17:18:08 -!- vy [n=user@wr527.cs.bilkent.edu.tr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:18:09 Sure. 17:18:31 -!- coderdad [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:19:10 pkhuong: you mean along the lines of (with-allocation-region (:size many-bytes) ...do stuff...)? 17:19:17 nikodemus: right. 17:19:20 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:19:37 the cross-compiler's already understands that it's not sure about host objects and target type systems. See src/code/cross-type.lisp 17:19:59 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [] 17:20:00 "the cross-compiler's type system" 17:20:40 -!- mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c1a3df2140222c8e] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 17:21:05 jao [n=jao@45.Red-83-37-138.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:14 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:25:52 -!- semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has quit ["leaving"] 17:29:06 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-250-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:58 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.135.206] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:31:00 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-162.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:33:43 -!- sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:33:53 sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:53 nikodemus: re stack-allocated-p, it wouldn't be very long to bsearch across the stack ranges. 17:35:46 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 17:36:23 for all threads you mean? 17:36:24 -!- r1nu- [n=debian@ppp-94-67-188-33.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["reboot"] 17:39:19 pkhuong: apropos, my vector data alignment is now on repo.or.cz 17:41:39 nikodemus: right, for all threads. 17:42:29 Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:42:49 coderdad_ [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:55 maybe ALLOCATION-TYPE should return :STACK, and the thread object as secondary value 17:43:23 amblerc [n=user@24-180-81-97.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:22 -!- jimi_hendrix [n=user@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit ["brb"] 17:47:20 -!- benny99 [n=benny@p5486F598.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:48:13 alexbobp_ [n=alex@adsl-75-63-0-19.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:52 Zenton`` [n=user@80.29.236.78] has joined #lisp 17:50:58 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.139.204] has joined #lisp 17:53:40 p_l: Ping? 17:54:01 nikodemus, why do I always have the impression that CL developers grope in the dark instead of design things based on fundamentals? 17:54:26 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:41 Fare: Maybe they grope fundamentals in the dark? 17:54:46 (OK, some of them may have a shake-and-it-turns-on flashlight) 17:54:51 nyef: PONG 17:55:28 p_l: You should be able to git clone git://common-lisp.net/users/abridgewater/perry.git or http://common-lisp.net/~abridgewater/git/perry.git now. 17:55:45 nice! 17:55:45 Nothing really new there, but hey, public git archive. 17:56:04 nyef, what's perry? 17:56:05 good afternoon 17:56:26 Fare: Alpha ev45 emulator. 17:57:01 Any computer historians here with a copy of TENEX lying around? 17:57:06 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 17:57:23 isn't CL itself designed based on fundamentals or am I missing something? 17:57:31 gigamonk`: search for klh-20 17:57:34 *klh-10 17:58:04 gigamonk`: from simh archives you can get the rest of the tapes should you need them 17:58:19 as well as install docs 17:58:32 dunno about MACLISP, haven't used it on TOPS-20 17:58:42 Or more directly, I'm trying to track down the history of the DOCTOR program. 17:58:56 nyef, so I can run OpenGenera emulated on an Alpha emulated in CL emulated in C on an ARM pda? 17:58:58 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@adsl-75-63-0-19.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:59:01 I believe Bernie Cosell wrote the Lisp version that then spread around the world, based on Weizenbaum's paper about ELIZA. 17:59:04 But I'm trying to confirm that. 17:59:06 Fare: One day, maybe! 17:59:17 If anyone knows anything about it, let me know. 17:59:23 manic12, no -- CL was never designed. 17:59:38 (I ask about TENEX because I think his version was shipped with the OS) 18:00:12 gigamonk`: I don't think LISP was shipped with TWENEX. At least I don't recall it in install tape of TOPS-20 V7 18:01:09 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:02:26 Hmmm. Maybe it wasn't shipped with TENEX but it ran on TENEX and so spread around the ARPANET. 18:02:30 it was designed incrementally in various other branches of lisp 18:03:12 but you're right, no one sat down and started with nothing and said I think I will create CL 18:03:26 anyway 18:03:43 Scheme tried (and failed) to be based on fundamentals. 18:03:45 i need to get focused 18:04:15 -!- joshe [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has left #lisp 18:04:33 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslec048.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:37 then there are not many languages based on fundamentals 18:05:27 what are fundamentals? lambda calculus? combinatorial logic? 18:06:08 sales and marketing 18:06:51 -!- sh10151 [n=user@cpe-76-181-82-14.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:07:01 s/combinatorial/combinatory/ 18:07:06 lisp might not be based on fundamentals, but it has it's share of fundamentalists :) 18:07:21 -!- Zenton` [n=user@86.Red-88-31-98.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:07:42 we put the fun in fundamentals 18:07:51 personally i think it's fun ... da mentals that is. 18:08:04 *drewc* is one of da mentals 18:08:23 where's the fun in define, fine in defun 18:09:02 shouldn't defun remove fun? 18:09:12 do people pronounce defun as "def - un" or "de - fun"? 18:09:32 Probably both. 18:10:00 manic12, ML, Haskell, Mercury. Maybe Oz. Maybe PLT Scheme. 18:10:01 i pronounce like define, but with  18:10:06 unlambda 18:10:10 we should change it to "deffun" :) 18:10:19 define-function 18:10:35 eek 18:10:45 ML has lots of fun everywhere. 18:10:58 or change defclass & such to "declass" 18:11:17 wow, CL is *so* messed up! 18:11:24 def-[f]un... 18:11:27 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:11:30 HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 18:12:22 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:53 arc and clojure have fn ... i'm not sure if that's fun or fan or fin or fen... 18:13:16 -!- amblerc [n=user@24-180-81-97.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:13:32 fon 18:13:33 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:13:45 Perhaps it's pronounced with an abbreviated-to-indistinguishability vowel? 18:14:21 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:17:13 fon? surely not. 18:17:17 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:30 Hopefully, FORTRESS will just have x  sin x 18:17:44 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-36-193.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:52 *manic12* needs to make a todo list 18:19:17 *Fare* needs to make a program that generates a todo list 18:19:30 lol 18:19:59 I recently started an effort to reoranize and cleanup my code 18:20:17 segyr [n=segyr@241.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 18:20:30 just delete and rewrite anew 18:20:31 it's a huge project, i have let things get way out of hand 18:21:08 stassats: I am rewriting, but i didn't delete 18:22:00 manic12, what code is it? 18:22:03 so arc is hebrew? 18:22:14 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:22:34 tic: not to eli 18:22:39 or maybe 18:22:52 a big chunk of it is swig interface files for a solid modeler 18:23:33 then I need to move all my utilities into utilities 18:24:20 rewrite the ui 18:24:55 *p_l* needs an AI to keep track of his TODO list 18:25:01 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:25:39 *nyef* would like an AI to take care of some of the stuff on his TODO list. 18:25:40 i wrote an ai and it sat around all day writing ai's to do things 18:26:15 manic12: so where's your turing award? 18:26:58 p_l: let me write an ai to explain to you that i'm joking, hold on 18:27:00 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 18:28:05 ;-) 18:28:29 tcr: there-p? 18:29:36 tic: it's not 18:29:41 Fare: there is also the kbe extension to cl which will eventually drive the modeler 18:29:50 michaelw, compelling argument though? 18:30:07 rpg: yes 18:31:53 at least todo-ai doesn't require any ethics checks 18:32:00 tcr: I have been encountering an interesting interaction b/w ASDF, SLIME and ACL. I am having troubles where ASDF:run-shell-command under slime passes *verbose-out* to ACL's run-shell-command. The slime stream seems unable to be passed through to a unix process. 18:32:38 klausi_ [n=klausi@port-92-193-31-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:32:45 any idea why that might be happening? 18:32:58 what does "passed through to a unix process"? 18:34:06 what does it mean? 18:34:30 rpg: the slime stream is a gray stream, I do not know whether ACL can cope with that. 18:35:17 tcr: It's not so much ACL as it is Unix. Here's what the ACL docs say: "The stream must be of a kind that has a Unix file descriptor in the appropriate direction." 18:36:03 run-shell-program will redirect shell output to *verbose-output*, which I believe to be whatever SLIME binds *standard-output* to (I don't see any rebinding for *verbose-output*). 18:36:26 -!- dwave [n=ask@212.251.243.4] has quit ["Be back later"] 18:36:31 hm when I start up my hunchentoot webserver as another user, it doesn't return any pages, curl says: HTTP/1.1 200 OK\nContent-Length: 103\n...other-headers... curl: (18) transfer closed with 103 bytes remaining to read" 18:37:01 rpg: slime-streams do not have a unix fd associated with them 18:37:29 tcr: uh-oh. That means anyone trying to run asdf:run-shell-program under SLIME on ACL will get a crash. 18:38:03 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 18:38:35 tcr: I wonder if the best solution would be to make a fresh stream, grab its output and push it into *verbose-output*? Less awful suggestions welcome! 18:38:45 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 18:39:09 rpg: write a portable run-program layer on top of IOLIB 18:39:21 ACL's run-shell-command must be made aware of gray streams 18:39:26 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 18:39:35 Fare: I don't think it's acceptable to make ASDF depend on IOLIB because of the circularity. 18:39:50 CL is lacking in the Olin Shivers' "do one thing right" department. 18:40:01 rpg, oh, in ASDF itself. 18:40:10 Fare: Yes, worse luck. 18:40:21 what does it need run-shell-command for? 18:40:28 We need a minimal solution (asdf:run-shell-command is supposed to be minimal). 18:40:30 that's right -- one of the downsides of ASDF partaking in the "One True World" paradigm 18:40:33 tcr: gpg comes to mind 18:40:40 tcr: I believe for things like invoking C compilers... 18:40:43 *Fare* goes back to his plan to destroy the One True World... 18:40:49 rpg: Does it work on sbcl? 18:40:57 err, that was asdf-install, sorry 18:41:00 tcr: Yes. And it runs in ACL ELI. 18:41:17 rpg, come join XCVB instead :) 18:41:36 thomas_ [n=thomas@41-071.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:41:45 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:01 Fare: The only question that remains in my mind is whether my colleagues would just kill me, or torture me first ;-) 18:42:04 rpg: could you give me an examplary asdf:run-shell-command? something that opens a file via "cat", for instance 18:42:15 tcr: Hang on for a second... 18:43:18 rpg, you could help update the "migrate from ASDF automatically" part of XCVB... 18:43:36 rpg pasted "ASDF perform using shell command (for tcr)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80383 18:43:39 nikodemus: here? 18:43:41 Anyone here knows how I can use a variable with cl-who like this: (let ((code '(:p "Test"))) (with-html-output-to-string (*standard-output* nil) (htm code))). All I get is an emptry string. 18:44:32 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 18:44:56 tcr: For lovers of obscurity, that takes a Protege-generated ontology file and processes it into readable CL. 18:47:41 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B040.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:53 Unfortunately, I don't understand why the decision was made to send the output to *verbose-output* instead of *standard-output*... 18:48:49 Just from the names, it seems like a local policy thing. 18:48:58 -!- Athas` is now known as Athas 18:49:43 thomas_: (macrolet ((code () '(htm (:p "Test")))) (with-html-output-to-string (*standard-output* nil) (code))) 18:50:07 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-36-193.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:50:24 I think the easiest solution would be to replace the asdf definition of run-shell-program on ACL with a call to EXCL.OSI:COMMAND-OUTPUT, grab up the output lines, and copy them to *verbose-output*. 18:50:44 #+ALLEGRO ? 18:51:18 rpg: Right. 18:51:21 stassats`: does that really work, with cl-who's evaluation rules? 18:51:52 michaelw: don't know about theory, works in practice 18:52:19 ok 18:52:23 Fare: there are already implementation-dependent definitions for each major platform in asdf.lisp. The problem is that the one for ACL, while fine in and of itself, is not consistent with SLIME. 18:52:27 stassats`: I'm getting "Function :p is undefined" 18:53:01 did you forget (htm ...)? 18:53:21 I copy and pasted your example. 18:53:28 *rpg* now gets to try to grok git enough to submit a patch to asdf-devel... 18:53:56 *rpg* is also supposed to be learning SQL today. happy happy joy joy 18:53:59 rpg: git format-patch, I think it is 18:54:12 thomas_: does your package use cl-who? 18:54:22 yes 18:54:23 blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:29 tcr: Yes. I just need to make sure I do the whole "switch to branch" thing properly. 18:54:38 thomas_: ok, my example only works on development version 18:54:51 as i said, i don't know about theory 18:55:00 Oh, ok. 18:55:39 I didn't find a cvs repository last time I checked. Where can I find one for cl-who? 18:55:44 pkhuong: IIRC, not USEing cl-who doesn't work so well because of some magic symbols 18:56:42 thomas_: http://bknr.net/trac/browser/trunk/thirdparty/cl-who 18:57:02 stassats`: Thanks. 18:58:55 -!- jao [n=jao@45.Red-83-37-138.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:59:13 (let ((code (with-html-output-to-string (foo) (:p "Test")))) (with-html-output-to-string (*standard-output* nil) (str code))) will work on both 18:59:28 rpg, do you mean ANSI SQL, MS SQL, Oracle SQL, MySQL SQL, Postgres SQL, sqlite SQL or something else? 19:00:00 Fare: oh, just kill me now... Seriously, pretty much MySQL SQL... 19:00:25 *Fare* puts a cartridge in the gun 19:00:30 so, can someone see a brilliant way to express complex multiplication in SSE2? 19:01:08 emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:01:22 stassats`: Yeah, the string version works, but it doesn't support indentation. 19:01:38 Not properly anyway. 19:01:53 rpg: BEWARE THE SUBQUERY 19:02:31 pkhuong, if you represent your numbers redundantly as a 2-by-2 similitude matrix... 19:02:32 I'll have to one day check if I can have similar thing to MySQL written in simple CL and TokyoCabinet ;-) 19:02:46 (MySQL claims to support subqueries, and this is even sort of true if you don't mind them breaking the query optimiser most of the time) 19:03:06 p_l: must you? 19:03:29 rsynnott: Hey, I'll at least make subqueries work! 19:04:03 and it was mostly a mental exercise against "MySQL diehards" 19:04:11 First I will try to fix ASDF, something that I understand to a limited extent... 19:04:16 are there mysql diehards? 19:04:28 rsynnott: Unfortunately, yes. 19:04:31 I suspect most users treat it with quiet loathing 19:04:31 *rpg* makes plaintive whine 19:04:57 At what point did people think it was great to smash their applications into n+1 different programming and configuration languages? 19:05:38 XML, Java, CL, SQL, Java config files, Unix daemon scripts.... Complete pandemonium around here... 19:05:43 Fare: sure, I can shuffle/duplicate values. 19:05:52 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 19:05:59 horizontal ops aren't as fun. 19:06:59 <`toro> if I make a correction on a line somewhere else am I supoosed to evaluate the whole thing all over again or I can continue ? 19:07:00 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 19:07:06 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-234-188.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 19:07:21 `toro: depends 19:07:25 jao [n=jao@133.Red-83-33-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:35 if you have changed a macro, you will want to recompile anything using that macro 19:07:56 <`toro> is describe-path part of lisp? 19:08:05 pkhuong: have you seen the slide in http://software.intel.com/file/1000 ? 19:08:07 no 19:08:12 `toro: but describe-object is. 19:08:44 <`toro> I am not sure if Casting SPELS got macros 19:09:33 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.133.175] has joined #lisp 19:10:10 <`toro> how about object-location? 19:10:29 no again 19:10:58 rpg, isn't the whole point of CL to allow to have lots of languages? 19:11:10 <`toro> and path? 19:11:37 no PATH function either 19:11:59 rpg: just wait until the "domain specific languages" trend hits full stride! 19:12:18 <`toro> ok this is the error, I translated the adventure in Spanish. 19:12:21 then we'll have n^2 languages, and applications written as state machines in XML. 19:12:39 <`toro> (hay una \, (second itinerario) hacia (quote (first itinerario)) desde aqui -) 19:12:51 Fare: It's not clear to me that combining a large number of different languages with radically different syntaxes and semantics is a great idea. 19:13:19 Fare: My HTML + XUL + Javascript + Lisp + XML (ajax) experience is not encouraging... 19:13:37 <`toro> the backslash , (secnod ..), quote (first ..) they're all wrong 19:13:54 rpg, so is the Lisp promise of DSLs a lie? 19:13:56 mjf [n=mjf@r3a98.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 19:14:22 hefner, yes, but Moore machines, or Mealy machines? 19:14:31 Fare: There's a difference. In Lisp the DSLs should all be part of the big ball of mud. 19:14:51 the ball of mud is called Unix (respectively Windows). 19:14:57 <`toro> DSL= damn small linux? 19:15:06 I'm not guaranteeing the absence of excrements in the ball of mud. 19:15:08 minion: What does DSL stand for? 19:15:09 Directorially Serictery Lazarly 19:15:31 minion: what does nyef stand for? 19:15:31 Nonfluorescent Yauld Enteroparalysis Fourteenfold 19:15:46 I think the advantage of the DSL is that it brings things together. Having to guess whether a piece of functionality is provided in language 1 ... language n is not an advantage IMO. 19:15:48 Fare: at least they'd agree on base values 19:16:10 Fare: I thought they're the big ball of crud 19:16:17 -!- I_got_superpages [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:16:29 So it's not the fact that we have both XML and Javascript, but that the prorgrammer has no idea where a piece of behavior originates. 19:16:41 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-75-92.netcologne.de] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 19:16:50 It's more like we have demodularized things by making it impossible to tell where a behavior comes from (or how the different components interact). 19:16:57 Done cleanly, it can be a good thing. 19:17:09 smithzv [n=smithzv@c-67-173-240-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:14 <`toro> how about my problem? 19:17:25 `toro, you have a problem? 19:17:27 describe your problem 19:17:28 <`toro> is more down-to-earth 19:17:40 <`toro> (hay una \, (second itinerario) hacia (quote (first itinerario)) desde aqui -) 19:17:51 <`toro> ^^^ that above 19:18:01 `toro, send a check to "#lisp support, incorporated" 19:18:16 `toro: i said _describe_ 19:18:40 rpg: Is there anything in eli that you miss in slime? At my employer I have access to allegro, and I already improved its swank backend for it. Though the changes are not in the upstream versions. 19:19:28 tcr: I'm not sure. It seems like when I use ELI I get better debugging (more restarts, etc.) OTOH, presentations in SLIME are a wonderful thing. 19:19:59 rpg: What kind of restarts? 19:20:19 Actually, now that I think of it, I miss the repl commands. I know that there are SLIME commands, but those require me to write an elisp parser. With ACL's repl and SB-aclrepl, I just work on the CL side to make a command. 19:20:24 yeah, making it painful to select and paste from the slime repl is great. 19:21:10 I like the presentations, since I can't just type :i * to get to the inspector in slime as I can in eli... 19:21:31 Uh you can do C-c I * RET 19:21:43 <`toro> so slime is not good? 19:22:08 slime is no good. Has anything slimy ever been good? 19:22:43 tcr: I'm not at all adept with slime keybinds yet. Actually even my eli keybindings are deeply deviant. 19:22:56 `toro: if I were married, and complained about my wife, would you say "so your wife is no good?" 19:23:27 Fare: Flan? 19:23:47 *Fare* goes taste the Flan of Victory! 19:24:10 minion: what does lisp stand for? 19:24:11 Lustrate Indifferentist Springtime Poetic 19:24:17 yeah baby. 19:24:49 -!- segyr [n=segyr@241.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has quit [] 19:25:21 segyr [n=user@241.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 19:26:25 JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:57 tcr: I've used eli for so long, I'm about the worst person to ask about SLIME. Although I do use it for SBCL... 19:27:22 <`toro> that's what I am doing using sbcl winh silem 19:28:12 hefner: fancy shmancy new SSE3 instructions 19:30:09 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 19:30:16 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:22 Greetings. 19:30:26 Seen LiamH? 19:30:40 rpg: Well what do you like about it? 19:30:48 <`toro> hefner: I am not married yet 19:30:51 rpg: And don't the acl repl commands work through the slime repl? 19:31:19 <`toro> pkhuong: for LISP?? 19:31:36 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 19:31:49 <`toro> pkhuong: what about SSE4?? 19:31:53 hello 19:32:22 `toro: the x86-64 ABI only guarantees the presence of SSE and SSE2 instructions. 19:32:23 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:33:27 rpg: Ah sure they don't work through the slime-repl 19:33:53 <`toro> pkhuong: ok, I am bit far from that though 19:33:55 rpg_ [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:02 pkhuong: is conditional ssenalization troublesome? 19:34:34 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:34:36 -!- rpg_ is now known as rpg 19:34:58 stassats: no, but I'll stick to portable stuff before wasting time on less general code. 19:35:04 oh crumbs. Just swapped from wired to wireless and lost 5 minutes... 19:35:11 fair enough 19:35:15 HG` [n=wells@xdslec048.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:35:16 -!- segyr [n=user@241.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:35:25 Under what circs is SLIME + SBCL unable to find source definitions? I'm loading my local copy of ASDF, and meta-dot seems to no longer work on asdf functions. 19:35:42 rpg: You have to compile it 19:35:47 under LOAD without COMPILE-FILE 19:35:54 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 19:36:13 hm. Of course, if one has multiple lisp implementations, each of which wants to own type "fasl"... 19:36:18 at least now that I'm only working on arithmetic, I can hotpatch a live image 19:37:20 Symmetry- [n=thezog@host-static-92-114-165-252.moldtelecom.md] has joined #lisp 19:37:25 Can one force sbcl to load a fasl that isn't named .fasl? 19:37:26 rpg: there's asdf-binary-locations for asdf, and you can customize slime, too, where it should store .fasl files for C-c C-k 19:38:09 tcr: Right. I do actually use asdf-binary-locations. But asdf-binary-locations comes AFTER asdf, not before it... 19:38:24 hey guys, besides lisp in a box, I recall there was one more all-in-one lisp environment freely available, I wonder if anyone knows. I know it worked on windows at least, if that helps 19:38:27 tcr: I can just do by hand for asdf what asdf-binary-locaitons does... 19:38:31 -!- prabu_ [n=prabu@117.193.199.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:38:41 rpg: Oh, I see. 19:39:21 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-203-235.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:26 rpg: Just open asdf.lisp in Slime and use C-c C-k, that should do it regardless of implementation 19:39:33 Symmetry-: there's ReadyLisp, but that's OSX-only, IIRC 19:39:54 Symmetry-: I think you may be talking about Edi Weitz starter pack 19:41:50 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslec048.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:00 tcr: BTW, is there a way to gracefully close a SLIME session? The only way I know is to smash the lisp and kill the buffers, which seems graceless... 19:42:13 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r3a98.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:42:26 ,sayoonara 19:42:27 rpg: ,say might do the trick. 19:42:49 <`toro> WOHOO!!! fixed it!! 19:43:00 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-27-96.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:43:07 tcr, I googled it, looks different from the one I recall. thanks very much though. 19:43:08 symmetry: On debian or ubuntu you can just use synaptic 19:43:16 I'm on Windows :) 19:43:32 stassats, nyef: any reason not to have this on the menubar? 19:43:44 What menubar? 19:44:00 nyef: the SLIME menu on the emacs menubar... 19:44:05 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 19:44:06 Emacs has a menubar? 19:44:10 :) 19:45:09 rpg: no reason, please send a request to the list. 19:45:34 tcr: OK, will do, thanks! 19:45:42 segyr [n=user@241.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 19:45:48 back to my original asdf-fixing... 19:45:56 rpg: Or better provide a patch, won't be hard, look at slime-easy-menu 19:46:00 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.139.204] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:46:08 <`toro> hom may I undo? I just deleted 3/4 of my code :( 19:46:18 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-60-207.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:46:39 `toro: M-x undo 19:46:40 I wouldn't mind an easy menu for the inspector (stassats?) 19:46:59 *tcr* Gtg, cu. 19:47:01 <`toro> schme: ah ah got it. I just tried for the heck of it and it worked!! 19:47:04 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:47:10 <`toro> thanks 19:47:11 i might look into it, but i not use it myself 19:48:20 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:48:39 I find the menu handy for training myself into a mode or (as in the SLIME case) retraining myself from different keybindings. 19:50:28 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-229.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 19:51:40 I find C-h m good for that. 19:53:19 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 19:53:29 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 19:53:55 or C-h b 19:54:18 ejs [n=eugen@200-155-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:31 mjf [n=mjf@r6y134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 19:55:23 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:55:58 -!- ttt-- [n=ubuntu@78-23-124-196.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:56:01 nyef, michaelw: Those are good for prolonged training, but for "in process" training like "I am using SLIME for a while, and can't remember a specific command," I'd rather just be able to pull the command off a menu. 19:56:26 -!- Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:56:29 Keyboard commands are great precisely because they are so fast. If they aren't fast, they aren't great any more.. 19:57:23 desu pasted "butlast" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80390 19:57:51 i'm getting an error on the above paste: *** - SYSTEM::%EXPAND-FORM: (CONS (FIRST L1) (BL (REST L1))) should be a lambda expression 19:58:04 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 19:58:11 what am i doing wrong? 19:58:38 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:47 Oh, if I forget the keybinding I'll fault to M-x. If that doesn't work, I'll apropos for it, and take the time hit as my due for forgetting. 19:58:55 horrifying code 19:59:13 O_o 19:59:35 desu: should be (cons ...), not ((cons ..)) 19:59:45 tcr: thanks for the help. I will send a patch to asdf-devel, which should make slime-users happier. 19:59:45 o... 19:59:50 thanks, stassats 20:00:17 <`toro> is 'map' part of lisp? 20:00:23 yes 20:01:08 `toro: why don't you ask lisp? 20:01:13 (find-symbol "MAP" "CL") 20:01:43 <`toro> I did'nt know how to find 20:01:49 (find-symbol "MAP" "CL") 20:01:57 just type that at your REPL. 20:02:04 <`toro> ok 20:02:24 they you may try: (describe 'map) or (documentation 'map 'function) 20:02:26 or: 20:02:28 clhs map 20:02:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_map.htm 20:02:37 desu: don't indent lisp like it's C 20:02:51 <`toro> REPL meaning no in *scratch* but in sbcl? 20:02:55 You may use /msg specbot clhs map to do it with some privacy. 20:03:08 <`toro> I do got hyperspec 20:03:13 nikodemus: ah, sorry... i come from a C background, so that's sorta become a habit :/ 20:03:17 `toro: yes in sbcl. 20:03:27 stassats annotated #80390 "how it should look" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80390#1 20:03:37 just curious, trying lisp in a box here. I accidentally started the tutorial with c-h t how do I get back to the repl buffer? 20:03:52 desu: that's for you 20:03:56 rolly1975 [n=rory@5ad09348.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:58 c-x b *slime...TAB? 20:04:04 yep 20:04:29 -!- emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:04:32 stassats: thanks 20:04:51 hm typing the * everytime, isn't that a bit too much 20:04:52 :/ 20:04:58 jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 20:05:08 o_O 20:05:40 Symmetry-: M-x slime-selector RET r 20:05:49 <_3b> try ctrl-left click for a list of buffers 20:06:14 bind slime-selector to something more pleasant for you 20:06:20 nikodemus annotated #80390 "this is what it should look like" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80390#2 20:06:22 Symmetry-: C-c z in lisp-mode brings me to the repl buffer 20:06:26 <`toro> I did like this C-x b and then *slime + tab 20:06:38 <`toro> which completes *slime-repl sbcl* 20:07:16 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-229.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:07:38 `toro yes but that's 10 keypresses... :< 20:07:52 ok sorry I'm just a newb 20:08:31 Drunkenmonkey [i=55c89673@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-da4d57e7de898211] has joined #lisp 20:08:53 ((lisp (sucks))) 20:09:17 your code is wrong 20:09:19 -!- hsaliak [n=hsaliak@bb116-15-29-118.singnet.com.sg] has quit [] 20:09:21 Symmetry: also, use iswitchb-mode or something 20:09:52 slackaholic [i=1000@187-24-131-229.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:09:53 s-exps sucks 20:09:56 adeht, sorry, I haven't the slightest clue what that is 20:10:04 I'm going through gigamonkeys 20:10:17 hi everybody! 20:10:23 symmetry of parenthesises 20:10:24 Drunkenmonkey: we got your point of view, you can leave now 20:10:37 Symmetry-: (global-set-key "\C-z" 'slime-selector) 20:11:06 stassats: (are (you (sure))) 20:11:14 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:11:19 i have to make a seminary about clos... does somebody here can tell me a good tutorial or book about clos? 20:11:30 put that in your .emacs, afterwards C-z r will always take you to repl, etc 20:11:38 practical common lisp 20:11:57 minion: tell slackaholic about pcl-book 20:11:58 slackaholic: please see pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 20:11:58 minion: tell slackaholic about Keene 20:11:59 slackaholic: please look at Keene: "Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp: A Programmer's Guide to CLOS" by Sonya E Keene. http://www.cliki.net/Keene 20:12:01 but I think you should just drop lisp and that seminary 20:12:11 Learn Haskell instead 20:12:35 keene is good too, yeah. except for the make-thing meme, which is a bit off these days 20:12:59 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 20:13:02 Drunkenmonkey, but i have 2 weeks to do it 20:13:13 Drunkenmonkey, i'm studying lisp now 20:13:14 nikodemus: actually I kinda liked the idea, even if it doesn't work very well with inheritance 20:13:18 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 20:13:40 amblerc [n=user@24-180-81-97.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:41 slackaholic: don't talk to him, it's a unsophisticated troll 20:13:53 slackaholic: Lisp is a dead end, only used by simpletons 20:13:53 can't find where lispbox put the .emacs 20:14:03 nikodemus: it's more about encapsulation, easier to later switch to structures if efficiency demands it 20:14:49 <`toro> ok thanks all, (describe 'map) was the best with through explanation 20:15:48 stassats, =P thanks man 20:16:29 michaelw: not just that, it's sometimes convenient to have just functions in an interface 20:17:02 <`toro> wow HOT!! (documentation 'foo) works right in *scrotch*!! 20:17:47 michaelw: true to a degree 20:18:48 anxiolytic [n=locked@cpe-24-90-108-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:19:52 where can I find some common/prominent uses of Lisp (recent)? 20:20:02 nikodemus: Was there anything special you had to do to get your forked sbcl tree on repo.or.cz to be in usable condition? 20:20:58 ? 20:22:23 ejs1 [n=eugen@100-138-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:49 iirc no 20:22:55 anyone knows a resource on how to use the BKNR Web Server? (can't find a hunchentoot:start-server) 20:24:50 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:50 http://www.weitz.de/hunchentoot/ 20:24:55 anxiolytic: , for example 20:25:28 thomas_: hunchentoot's interface was changed 20:27:05 Ah ok. 20:27:09 Thanks. 20:27:55 tombom_ [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 20:29:04 michaelw: thx 20:31:26 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-143-138.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:32:29 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:33:08 -!- ejs [n=eugen@200-155-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:33:22 How would I go about trimming any whitespace (tabs, spaces etc.) from both sides of a string using (string-trim ...)? 20:34:10 (string-trim '(#\Space #\Tab #\Return) string) ? 20:34:19 Thanks. 20:34:23 clhs string-trim 20:34:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_stg_tr.htm 20:34:28 Just wasn't sure how to spell those chars. 20:34:48 antoszka: it's even an example in the spec 20:35:12 Yeah. I was looking at a different document with no examples. 20:35:18 Sorry about the noise. 20:35:54 -!- anxiolytic [n=locked@cpe-24-90-108-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 20:36:17 -!- alexbobp_ is now known as alexbobp 20:37:04 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:40:07 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 20:40:56 -!- slackaholic [i=1000@187-24-131-229.3g.claro.net.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:41:27 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:41:39 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 20:44:21 -!- coderdad_ [n=coderdad@ip72-200-214-240.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:44:51 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:44:51 -!- tombom_ is now known as tombom 20:47:47 borsman [n=quassel@cpe-76-177-217-216.natcky.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:47 damn you people are so dead inside of all the lisp an macros that you are not possible to troll 20:50:09 what happened 20:50:40 I'm giving this up 20:50:51 stay in your parenthesises 20:50:56 never come out 20:51:21 -!- Drunkenmonkey [i=55c89673@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-da4d57e7de898211] has left #lisp 20:51:28 must be the systematic desensitization 20:53:38 -!- segyr [n=user@241.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:54:57 how to get the repl to print out the definition of a function? 20:55:08 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 20:55:17 Symmetry: usually it's not kept in the image 20:55:18 M-. 20:55:22 Symmetry-: Have a look at FUNCTION-LAMBDA-EXPRESSION, but don't rely on it. 20:55:48 Symmetry: there's pjb's IBCL if you really want that 20:55:51 (in slime, for jumping to definition) 20:55:52 nono, I mean I did (defun (a) 1) and some screens later I want to bring it up 20:55:56 amblerc` [n=user@24-180-81-97.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:57 to see what it looks like 20:56:06 I'm in the console clisp.exe 20:56:07 (OK) 20:56:07 -!- amblerc [n=user@24-180-81-97.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:56:16 Symmetry-: Shouldn't have done it in the REPL, really. 20:56:27 Symmetry-: But, again, try FUNCTION-LAMBDA-EXPRESSION. 20:56:33 ok 20:56:37 start using slime 20:56:56 (FUNCTION-LAMBDA-EXPRESSION a) like that? 20:57:04 'a 20:57:08 guys, how i could create GUI with lisp 20:57:20 i can found some projects on the web 20:57:21 minion: GUI? 20:57:22 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``GUI''. 20:57:28 but most of them are died 20:57:36 stassats, oh it worked. but it looks like it shows an internal representation 20:57:40 minion, commonqt? 20:57:41 commonqt: a Common Lisp binding to the smoke library for Qt. http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ 20:58:45 Lispworks and AllegroCL have GUI libraries, and Clozure CL can invoke the Mac GUI libraries if that is the platform you are on. 20:59:32 i'm looking for commonqt 20:59:39 Other than that, you can try CLX on systems that support Xwin. 21:00:23 and mcclim 21:01:23 What are the major differences (and which would be better for what) between mcclim and clx? 21:01:56 they are different things completely 21:02:03 CLX is very low level. great if you like writing event handlers, screwing with graphics contexts, and drawing all your own widgets. 21:02:27 I see. So it's a direct interface to Xlib, without any predefined bricks? 21:02:30 no 21:02:37 it's a direct implementation of the X11 protocol 21:02:42 ah, even that 21:02:43 ok 21:03:19 So for à la tk GUI building we're left with mcclim and commonqt? 21:03:41 don't forget ltk 21:03:41 there's Ltk 21:04:10 Is that an interface to tk itself, or something alike? 21:04:18 ltk 21:04:23 yes 21:04:42 minion, ltk 21:04:43 ltk: LTK is a Common Lisp Graphics Toolkit Library for Tk, which provides a complete CLOS binding to the Tk widget set. http://www.cliki.net/ltk 21:04:44 there's clg, too 21:05:00 minion, clg 21:05:01 clg: Espen Johnsen's GTK bindings for CMUCL, SBCL and CLISP. http://www.cliki.net/clg 21:05:10 Krystof: +1 on hash tables 21:05:10 thx 21:05:25 looks like my return from holiday was perfectly timed 21:05:48 say, Krystof. Do you have any idea why there might be problems drawing large images with clx:put-image? Past a certain size I just get garbled output. 21:05:50 (except in the "adequately rested, chilled and relaxed" sense) 21:06:22 gh7d395pi69wd [n=gh7d395p@d75-157-249-24.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:22 how large? (No immediate idea) 21:06:26 <`toro> ha ha! the author trying to fool n00bs 21:06:28 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 21:06:49 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-250-121.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:07:13 <`toro> YAWN@gui 21:07:21 Krystof: not sure. around half a megapixel, if I had to guess. 21:08:44 odd. Sorry, you might well have to track this one down yourself. I have a minor modification somewhere that was the beginning of big-request length encoding; I suppose the first thing I'd check is whether the length of your request exceeds 2^16 21:09:14 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 21:09:15 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.146.14] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:09:23 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.53.19] has joined #lisp 21:09:54 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-250-121.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:06 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 21:10:52 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079167.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:19 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:12:25 -!- gh79d395pi69wd [n=gh7d395p@d75-157-249-24.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:15:24 I understand ' is for preventing evaluation? what is #' ? 21:15:39 ' means QUOTE and #' means FUNCTION 21:15:44 -!- Krystof has set mode -o Krystof 21:15:51 <`toro> ok gotta take a brake. I am half way through. After this I'll pick up them heavy weight books 21:16:05 -!- thomas_ [n=thomas@41-071.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:19:20 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:20:37 -!- amblerc` [n=user@24-180-81-97.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:23:07 mjf [n=mjf@r6y134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 21:23:40 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@100-138-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:24:22 -!- macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Cet ordinateur s'est endormi (zzz)"] 21:26:12 larssg [i=larssg@79.138.231.191.bredband.3.dk] has joined #lisp 21:26:35 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 21:28:05 jimi_hendrix [n=user@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #lisp 21:28:21 whats the command to compile a cl program into an executable with sbcl 21:28:42 rpg_ [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:58 sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die 21:29:50 check out the doc-strung for that function btw. .. :executable is probably of interest 21:30:34 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:30:37 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 21:30:42 s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-160-160-199.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:03 maybe it is a noob question or may be i miss something but how i could import a package into my current application ? 21:31:13 jao` [n=jao@52.Red-83-39-134.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:17 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 21:31:19 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 21:31:27 import symbols from some package? 21:31:28 -!- borsman [n=quassel@cpe-76-177-217-216.natcky.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:31:40 stassats: hum 21:31:50 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 21:31:52 "hum"? 21:31:57 i'm trying use SDL with lisp 21:32:03 i've installed cl-sdl 21:32:13 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:20 i've a file sdl.lisp somewhere on my computer 21:32:41 and i've in /home a script i've found on a web site 21:32:48 when i execute 21:32:55 clisp the_script 21:33:30 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:33:38 i get "The is no SDL package" 21:33:58 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:34:51 but in the file /usr/share/common-lisp/source/sdl/sdl/sdl.lisp 21:35:13 there is (defpackage sdl ...) 21:36:29 And did said sdl.lisp file end up being loaded in some fashion? 21:36:34 borsman [n=quassel@76.177.217.216] has joined #lisp 21:36:45 nyef: i think no 21:36:50 it's the problem 21:36:59 how i could load the file ? 21:37:01 require ? 21:37:35 That, I do not know. My system doesn't have a /usr/share/common-lisp/ directory, nor do I run clisp. 21:38:12 i'll test load-file 21:38:55 -!- jao [n=jao@133.Red-83-33-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:39:21 Davidbrcz: you may also try (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :sdl), if it's installed. 21:39:24 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079167.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:39:45 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:39:58 -!- borsman [n=quassel@76.177.217.216] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:40:12 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 21:40:34 pjb: it's not working but it's better 21:41:05 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@248.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:41:07 http://rafb.net/p/D3vnWD59.html 21:41:24 how do i compile something into a binary executeable 21:42:17 Davidbrcz: what implementation do you use? 21:42:18 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:42:36 pjb: debian SID 64 bits packages of everything 21:42:38 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-160-53.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:42:58 jimi_hendrix: wasn't your question already answered? 21:43:11 Davidbrcz: Type: (lisp-implementation-type) and tell us the result. 21:43:13 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:43:24 Davidbrcz: You may try to asdf load uffi first. Or to asdf load cffi and the cffi uffi compatibility module (I don't remember the name of that package, perhaps :uffi-compat) 21:44:16 stassats: yes, sorry, i missed 21:44:23 *jimi_hendrix* goes back to reread 21:44:25 pjb: first of all, could you explain the line you have given to me ? 21:44:38 (asdf:oos ....) 21:45:02 (lisp-implementation-type) 21:45:02 "CLISP" 21:45:02 This calls asdf:oos, which is the method used to operate asdf. 21:45:13 UFFI doesn't work on CLISP. 21:45:22 arf 21:45:23 :/ 21:45:26 You will have to try to use CFFI with the CFFI UFFI compatibility package. 21:46:10 With some system this doesn't work because they try to be smart with UFFI. 21:46:48 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 21:46:56 Davidbrcz: have a look at http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/manual.html 21:47:09 Some basic string questions... I need to split a string into a list of strings given a splitting char (as in "string".split/ / in ruby/perl and the like). 21:47:19 And what would be the reverse? 21:47:35 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079167.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:36 Joining a list of strings to create a single one (given a "glue" string)? 21:47:40 antoszka: you could use CONCATENATE or FORMAT. 21:47:43 are you sure you need to do that? (Maybe you should iterate over the string, using position, start and end)? 21:48:00 pjb: thanks 21:48:19 Krystof: I need to form a URL and a regex using a given string. 21:48:27 Krystof: So iterating is probably not a solution here. 21:48:29 antoszka: COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.STRING:UNSPLIT-STRING might be useful too. 21:48:32 (format "~{~A,~^~}" ...) is the usual one-liner answer to the join question, and split-sequence to the split 21:48:40 thx 21:48:51 (format nil "~{~A~^,~}" list-of-strings) 21:49:05 antoszka: sounds like splitting is likely to be lossy, unless you have a good URL parser. Are you sure? 21:49:11 split-sequence is a semi-standard add-on library. 21:49:38 I even have it installed, it seems. 21:50:20 Krystof: I just need to fish out space-separated words and then put them together in different ways. 21:50:33 ++ guys 21:50:34 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:50:47 (joined with %20 for URLs, and in other ways, too) 21:53:13 minion: split-sequence 21:53:14 split-sequence: SPLIT-SEQUENCE (formerly known as PARTITION) is a member of the Common Lisp Utilities family of programs, designed by community consensus. http://www.cliki.net/split-sequence 21:55:20 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@161.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:55:46 -!- blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:57:11 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:58:46 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:50 faux` [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:59:13 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:01:26 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:03:23 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-145-173.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 22:06:14 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:06:34 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:27 -!- klausi_ [n=klausi@port-92-193-31-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:08:49 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 22:09:39 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:09:59 -!- Symmetry- [n=thezog@host-static-92-114-165-252.moldtelecom.md] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:10:35 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6BCC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:20 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [] 22:15:32 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 22:15:32 -!- gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-229.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:17:13 minion: format 22:17:14 format: FORMAT is Common Lisp's function for creating formatted text output. http://www.cliki.net/format 22:17:42 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-143-138.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:17:56 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-143-138.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:18:46 blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:200:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 22:18:57 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:20:04 projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 22:23:28 -!- jao` [n=jao@52.Red-83-39-134.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 22:24:37 -!- jophish [n=jophish@dial-80-47-3-226.access.uk.tiscali.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:25:51 Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:13 Fare pasted "remake-object: clone the object while overriding some initargs..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80397 22:27:20 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable110.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:28:03 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable110.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:28:05 remake-object makes functional programming easier. Instead of using setf, you create a new instance modified from the previous one. 22:28:17 minion: scan-to-strings 22:28:17 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``scan-to-strings''. 22:28:59 great for passing a context object along a traversal instead of rebinding plenty of special variables. 22:29:17 antoszka, what are you trying to do? 22:29:48 Fare: Trying to find some documentation for cl-ppcre. Found a html on my disk. 22:29:56 Reading it. 22:30:14 http://www.weitz.de/cl-ppcre/ 22:31:39 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A08DD.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:31:56 *Fare* feels writing XCVB would be easier with a partner 22:32:06 anyone interested in partnering at writing it? 22:32:15 is it fun? 22:32:54 of course! 22:34:04 *Fare* is re-designing the dependencies traversal to add some notion of context/scope instead of a mess of special variables. 22:34:31 *stassats* hos not much experience in partner-writing 22:34:42 that's fine, me neither 22:34:50 not much positive experience, that is. 22:35:21 my best experience is when at any one time, either takes the lead and explains to the other what he's doing 22:35:36 the explaining forces him to make sense 22:35:43 what are prerequisites? 22:35:52 knowing a bit about CL 22:35:57 and about ASDF 22:36:14 let's say: having used CL and ASDF before. 22:36:28 oh, and having a few hours available this week 22:37:11 being able to use git slime and one of sbcl/clisp/ccl 22:37:34 (though I admit I've only ever tested xcvb but on sbcl and clisp) 22:37:49 (and mostly use sbcl as my dev platform) 22:38:29 well, i conform to all the above 22:39:08 -!- jmbr_ [n=jmbr@248.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:39:50 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 22:39:56 Greetings. 22:40:41 also, being able to use skype would make things more easy 22:41:10 not being bored as I explain the internals of xcvb 22:41:15 *p_l* wonders why SLIME uses sayoonara, seeing that long o seems to be a figure of speech, as he never seen double 'o' in written version... 22:41:35 How do you type a short float literal? I'm just curious. I realize the most implementations (that I've used) don't distinguish between a short and single float. 22:41:56 1.0s0 22:42:22 Thanks, then single float has no exponent? 22:42:32 or 1.0e0? 22:44:15 e denotes *read-default-float-format* 22:44:23 s short, f single, d double, l long (iirc) 22:44:57 Ah, f, okay. that all makes sense. I couldn't find it anywhere in the documentation I reviewed. 22:46:30 clhs 2.3.2.2 22:46:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_cbb.htm 22:46:45 <_3b> p_l: it is a valid romanization 22:47:31 _3b: The thing is, SLIME is the first place I have seen  with long  22:47:58 After all, emacs is utf-8 ready, it could display the message in katakana or even in hiragana. 22:48:11 I had *heard* it, but never seen in writing that wasn't a literal transcription of spoken text :) 22:48:48 jsnell: Thank you very much for the reference. I had been looking in chapters 12, 4 then 3. I need to remember to browse the contents. 22:49:04 <_3b> probably most people are either misspelling it, using a shorter romanization, or using an imported version of the word 22:50:14 <_3b> or writing it more informally 22:51:03 As far as my dictionary is concerned, both  and  are correct. the former seems more common though (and the latter can be written with kanji, it seems) 22:51:57 When I try to compile a file that (requires 'cl-ppcre) from within slime it says 'package "PPCRE" not found' in the error log. The same file works when entered directly into a live sbcl repl. What am I missing? 22:52:24 only one complex operation left: complex division! (: 22:52:32 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:48 *p_l* notices that he finally has to fix japanese input on his laptop 22:53:03 -!- rolly1975 [n=rory@5ad09348.bb.sky.com] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"] 22:53:32 I never remember how I get it working last time 22:53:39 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 22:53:51 (??? 3 '(a b c d e f g)) --> '((a b c) (d e f) (g)) what is the name of this function if it exists? 22:53:55 <_3b> yeah, i can never remember the keystrokes to toggle it even when i do have it working :) 22:54:51 thom_logn: (lambda (n l) (loop while l collect (subseq l 0 n) do (setf l (nthcdr n l)))) is the name of that function. 22:55:10 _3b: I can never get it *working* again on new config :D 22:55:55 <_3b> window i can usually remember which option to pick on install, linux i have to dig up an old config and see what i did last time 22:55:56 thanks. I thought it might be common enough there would be a named library function for it 22:56:56 thom_logn: well, you may find that name a little long, you can always introduce a shortcut. But all the possible functions have a name in lisp, so why would you want to put them in a library? Just name them when you need them! 22:57:45 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:58:29 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.133.175] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:58:56 -!- larssg [i=larssg@79.138.231.191.bredband.3.dk] has quit [] 22:59:50 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B040.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:02:57 -!- Zenton`` [n=user@80.29.236.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:06:50 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.133.213] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:09:15 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c121h014.wless.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 23:10:21 jsnell, btw, what is to be done before the CFASL patch may be merged in? Add keyword arguments to compile-file-pathname? Anything else? 23:14:05 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:15:03 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6BCC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 23:18:35 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:21:47 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:22:19 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:12 amblerc [n=user@24-180-81-97.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:13 p 23:26:58 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:22 lusers 23:28:48 -!- Fare [n=Fare@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 23:29:31 schoppen1auer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:31:22 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:30 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:32:35 -!- rpg_ [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 23:32:50 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 23:32:58 amblerc: for luserly woes, isn't asr a better place? 23:33:41 rpg_ [n=rpg@216.243.156.16] has joined #lisp 23:33:46 :-) 23:34:38 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:34:44 -!- rpg_ is now known as rpg 23:37:16 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:28 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-203-235.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:43:49 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:47:23 -!- faux` [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:55:27 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-143-138.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:56:15 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c121h014.wless.reed.edu] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:56:51 coffeemug [n=coffeemu@ool-457219b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:13 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:59 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-145-173.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 23:59:12 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:16 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit []