00:04:40 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087F055.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:10:40 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r3a98.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:14:36 <_3b> ah, i guess it is just printing to *inferior-lisp* where i couldn't see it 00:18:38 -!- The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087F055.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:23:38 -!- dysinger [n=tim@c-98-246-172-196.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:26:46 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@wireless-169-235-40-192.ucr.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:30:55 benny [n=benny@i577A0880.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:31:59 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 00:32:32 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-179-119.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:38:45 froog_ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 00:40:25 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [] 00:41:22 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:41:52 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:59 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:53:44 btw, nice tidbit - Average Lisper salary in UK is higher than Haskellers :D 00:57:14 p_l: where did you find that data? 00:57:37 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 00:57:44 itjobswatch 00:58:16 still, Erlang seems to kick both Lisp&Haskell when it comes to amount of job offers... 00:59:34 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 01:00:46 interesting site 01:11:22 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-612f050c0e91f4b1] has left #lisp 01:12:37 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-12-228.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:42 Vegan [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.133] has joined #lisp 01:20:29 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.133] has quit [Client Quit] 01:26:45 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-16-89.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:30:58 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142068149037.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:39:20 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:39:58 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-13-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:05 alpheus [n=user@c-98-213-176-16.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:28 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 01:51:24 data mining is worthless 01:51:49 pakora [n=pakora@ool-18b92109.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:19 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:55:20 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-12-228.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:56:36 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 01:56:55 Help: Can anyone point me to the right direction, I need to create a database system in Scheme/Lisp. Any ideas/advice on the architecture? The requirement is that it needs to be built using first-class functions. 01:58:08 heh, almost all programs in Scheme, Lisp, and Python and JavaScript for that matter are built using first-class functions. What specifically do you mean by that? 01:59:50 Well, I need to write it myself. The simplest way would be to use a list containing lists (rows) as the storage methods and use functions to add/read from the list. That is too simple, and according to my instructor, not using the potential of first-class functions. 02:00:13 So I'm just looking for ideas for the design of the system 02:00:56 oh, maybe you need a query system? 02:00:59 -!- alpheus [n=user@c-98-213-176-16.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["restarting emacs"] 02:01:21 a query system? 02:01:27 it's a database, right? 02:01:38 so whatever method you have for picking pieces from it is a query system 02:01:44 correct 02:02:01 anyway, in that case you might accept a lessp function for sorting, object predicates for filtering "rows" 02:02:44 if you have foreign keys (references to other rows), maybe a walker function 02:03:10 but what method would be ideal for the storage of the data? 02:03:24 a list of lists is great 02:04:12 the only storage-related thing I can think of is having some objects stored in the database carry their own serializers, where you call the serializer to read/write the persistence medium 02:04:36 alpheus [n=user@c-98-213-176-16.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:39 is there any other method that would allow the ability to add/remove columns in the "table" 02:05:35 this isn't really the area where customization with client-code-provided first-class functions is helpful 02:06:14 oh okay. So the best use of first-class functions would be when working on the data, not the storage ... correct? 02:06:55 <_death> hmm.. saw use of (setf logbitp) in some old lispm code and thought it interesting that at least sbcl provides it, even though I see no mention of it in the spec 02:06:58 yes 02:07:04 another thing, do you have schema in your design? 02:07:27 not really 02:07:43 if so, you could have client-provided functions responsible for generating and searching indices 02:09:59 hmm, thanks S11001001 for your help. I guess I was focusing more on the method of storage vs. the design of functions working with the data set. 02:11:08 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 02:12:39 -!- pakora [n=pakora@ool-18b92109.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:13:02 Is latest CVS slime good with 1.0.28 SBCL? 02:13:21 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-2-41.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:15:09 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-150-56-215.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:13 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:26 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:26:17 -!- bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:27:50 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:28:36 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-13-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:40:25 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-3529a7fe9d4b52f5] has joined #lisp 02:41:32 Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has joined #lisp 02:41:54 Slime has really changed in the last couple of years. It's feels stripped-down unless you load a few contribs. 02:42:18 -!- Jasko3 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:43:52 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:56 dysinger [n=tim@166.129.131.93] has joined #lisp 02:46:22 -!- Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:46:42 Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has joined #lisp 02:47:49 Modius__ [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has joined #lisp 02:53:48 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:54:09 Modius__ [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has joined #lisp 02:54:22 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-150-56-215.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:57:48 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:58:16 -!- borsman [n=quassel@cpe-76-177-217-216.natcky.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:59:45 jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 02:59:47 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.135.206] has joined #lisp 03:05:03 -!- Edward_ [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-43-221.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["« La POO c'est bien beau, mais en C au moins on va droit au but. »"] 03:05:08 -!- Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:06:25 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:09:08 uninverted [n=njs@ip24-252-241-178.cl.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:31 Is there any portable way to fork? 03:11:03 bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has joined #lisp 03:14:56 -!- uninverted [n=njs@ip24-252-241-178.cl.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 03:19:24 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 03:19:53 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634405.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:21:05 -!- kidd2 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:26:17 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 03:26:29 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:31:54 klausi_ [n=klausi@port-92-193-101-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 03:35:59 aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has joined #lisp 03:39:03 kidd2 [n=kidd@82.Red-79-150-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:27 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-71-134-228-2.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:56 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.1.19/2008110600]"] 03:43:05 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-39-7-56.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:03 chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:24 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-72-28.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:51:01 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:46 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:53:37 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:54:12 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:26 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:04:04 Vegan [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.133] has joined #lisp 04:10:09 -!- klausi_ [n=klausi@port-92-193-101-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:11:08 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-73.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 04:18:18 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:19:59 Good morning. 04:25:27 beach: good morning 04:26:29 -!- r1nu-_ [n=debian@ppp-94-67-157-133.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 04:30:05 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 04:40:44 morning, beach 04:44:27 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:56 -!- dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:46:01 skv [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:26 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-71-134-228-2.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [] 04:50:23 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.133] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:50:36 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has quit [Client Quit] 04:50:50 Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has joined #lisp 04:58:53 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:06:17 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:08:29 vanLiempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 05:09:18 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:12:48 slacks21 [n=ckuttruf@ip68-101-220-87.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:41 evening all. Can someone tell me what function (or classes if it concerns CLOS) deal with working with urls and source code for websites 05:13:46 or if one exists for that matter 05:14:21 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.135.206] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:14:59 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:16:53 Not sure what you need; but look at hunchentoot, CL-Who and Drakma, they may have calls along those lines 05:17:03 www.weitz.de 05:17:19 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:17:45 Puri has functions and stuff for working with URLs 05:18:55 slacks21: if you want to parse HTML, Closure (the web browser) includes a parser compatible with cxml 05:21:34 Modius: okay, thanks for the help... I'll check that out 05:22:00 p_l: thanks, but it's actually going into a script, so I want to be able to automate the parsing in a broader, more flexible context 05:22:51 slacks21: I meant that the parser used by Closure is available for use :) 05:23:52 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-73.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:24:04 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:07 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:13 jmbr [n=jmbr@6.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 05:24:21 chtml was it name. It's included in closure sources and afaik requires CXML. Found it after looking for a Mechanize equivalent for Lisp 05:24:48 http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/ 05:24:54 sorry, that went a bit over my head. Still newer to lisp (especially to CL 05:24:55 this is a good place to start 05:25:00 yeah, looking at their site right now 05:26:02 i've used cxml-stp for parsing and it was fine 05:26:22 closure html + cxml + drakma + eventually puri and you can probably take on any website :D 05:26:47 Vegan [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.133] has joined #lisp 05:27:05 sellout [n=greg@96.227.247.162] has joined #lisp 05:28:10 -!- sellout [n=greg@96.227.247.162] has quit [Success] 05:28:12 epic... reading up now 05:28:24 I was thinking about how to deconstruct the problem the hard way 05:28:34 didn't realize this existed for CL 05:28:51 sellout [n=greg@96.227.247.162] has joined #lisp 05:30:25 what percentage of sites would you say are xml compliant? 05:30:37 really? Don't count on it 05:31:23 there bound to be pages written in correct HTML4 as well as pages saying they are HTML4 and breaking it by using XML 05:32:58 p_l: so what's the simplest thing to use just to grab the source from a url? 05:33:13 I know for example, in Java, you'd use the url class 05:33:20 is there soemthing simiiliar 05:33:27 slacks21: drakma - a http client library 05:33:32 okay 05:33:32 thanks 05:33:49 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.197.5] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:34:05 then feed that to chtml and dissect with plexippus :P 05:35:52 lol, lost me there 05:36:40 is that easiest to install with asdf?... I'm using sbcl 05:38:35 use clbuild :) 05:39:17 how long have you been working with common lisp? 05:39:43 not long 05:40:10 but I tend to hang around there and read weird bits of info 05:45:44 anyone having trouble building SBCL? .. 1.0.28.47 .. "WARNING! Some of the contrib modules did not build successfully or pass..: asdf-install, sb-bsd-sockets, sb-posix, sb-simple-streams" 05:45:49 i might have screwed something up here though 05:47:29 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:35 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:47:36 -!- sellout [n=greg@96.227.247.162] has quit [] 05:48:10 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 05:51:19 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-167-159.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:51:33 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-167-159.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:22 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-39-7-56.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:54:54 tdy [n=tdy@unaffiliated/tdy] has joined #lisp 05:55:54 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 05:56:05 -!- slacks21 [n=ckuttruf@ip68-101-220-87.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:56:54 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 05:59:01 -!- skv [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:00:47 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.117.81] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:01:33 a-s [n=user@92.80.117.81] has joined #lisp 06:01:40 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 06:03:29 semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 06:04:23 -!- vanLiempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:05:00 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:09:20 ugh, ignore me .. the machine is way low on memory here; that's the problem 06:14:32 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:26:26 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:29:49 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:33:01 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:04 -!- frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:33:27 frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 06:35:59 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 06:36:41 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:38:17 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:40 -!- xan_ is now known as xan 06:40:17 -!- cel [n=cel@121.Red-79-151-50.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 06:41:21 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-155-65.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:41:44 good morning 06:41:51 good morning 06:43:59 ;;good-morning 06:44:43 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 06:45:47 (say "goodmorgenin") 06:46:01 schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2407989ce7dbdc3f] has joined #lisp 06:47:02 Hello ;) 06:48:26 europe awakes ;) 06:48:49 or keeps hammerring keyboard in hopes of producing anything useful 06:49:12 keeps? 06:49:23 yeah. Since yesterday :P 06:49:51 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 06:50:51 *p_l* decides his next machine should have >8G of ram 06:50:51 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:51:04 milestones directly ahead, i presume 06:51:25 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 06:51:25 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:51:26 erm... 4h from now? 06:51:44 and not milestone, *deadline* 06:51:50 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 06:51:53 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:52:31 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:53:54 p_l: i wish you good-focusing and keep up the coffeine level. 06:53:59 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 06:54:54 trebor_d`: It would be easier if it wasn't Introductory Java p.2 assignment :/ 06:55:17 ASau` [n=user@host195-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 06:58:50 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.235.243] has joined #lisp 06:59:23 why doesn't preserve-whitespace nil do what I'd expect in read-from string? (i.e. return a second value pointing *after* any whitespace) 07:00:25 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:00:26 tombom [i=tombom@86.29.154.73] has joined #lisp 07:01:00 oh hold on, preserve-whitespace doesn't do what I thought it did (isn't guaranteed to not preserve it when nil) 07:10:20 -!- semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has quit ["leaving"] 07:10:32 semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 07:13:45 KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 07:14:16 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:16:35 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@6.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:18:01 -!- bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has left #lisp 07:19:04 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:19:20 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 07:22:31 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-30-90.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:24:15 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 07:25:26 -!- Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:26:57 aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:28:02 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 07:28:13 aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:28:27 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:33:01 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 07:37:17 Tordek [n=tordek@host132.190-227-38.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 07:37:33 -!- dysinger [n=tim@166.129.131.93] has quit [] 07:37:51 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-140.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:38:00 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 07:39:08 jdz_ [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:41:02 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:44:52 -!- spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:47:39 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 07:54:13 -!- ia__ [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:55:02 ia__ [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 07:56:44 Vegan_ [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has joined #lisp 08:01:22 -!- semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has quit ["leaving"] 08:07:48 rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-109.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:09:44 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 08:09:49 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 08:15:11 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 08:15:35 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.133] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:16:16 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:16:39 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:16:53 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 08:19:38 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 08:28:22 HG` [n=wells@xdslfb125.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:31:31 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 08:38:24 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-73.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:56:07 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 09:00:50 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-111.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:03:43 jmbr [n=jmbr@6.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:12:26 anyone can point me to a tutorial how to make a single jar which would contain ABCL and the code I want to run? 09:20:43 ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has joined #lisp 09:20:53 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:21:55 ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has joined #lisp 09:25:17 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:28:22 -!- projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has left #lisp 09:28:37 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 09:35:43 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [] 09:36:10 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:39:07 attila_lendvai__ [n=ati@adsl-89-132-5-39.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:48:35 -!- rumbleca [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:51:09 _8david [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:52:13 -!- Vegan_ [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:52:13 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:52:13 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:52:13 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:53:38 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:54:53 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:56:21 cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:56:21 Vegan_ [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has joined #lisp 09:56:21 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:56:28 nop we all use SBCL here 09:56:54 you are wrong 09:57:00 I use clisp. 09:57:04 no shit 09:57:18 I was being ironic 09:57:29 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 09:57:41 That was some pretty good irony. 09:57:47 Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has joined #lisp 09:58:12 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:14 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 09:58:48 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)"] 09:59:29 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:59:38 <_8david> p_l: not sure which timezone the ABCL devs are in, perhaps you'd have more luck asking on armedbear-j-devel 09:59:39 thomas_ [n=thomas@40-127.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:00:12 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:00:12 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:00:12 -!- Vegan_ [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:03:46 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@6.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:06:14 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 10:06:40 -!- HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:06:47 what can I do when slime locks up? 10:06:59 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 10:07:10 (besides killing the lisp process) 10:07:13 koning_robot: 10:07:18 nothing 10:07:53 why does you SLIME session lock up? 10:08:14 I am not a master of macros yet 10:08:25 cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:08:25 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:08:32 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Dead socket] 10:08:50 no one is 10:09:25 Anyhow you would have to be more spesific. 10:10:02 konr: C-c C-c on the REPL will interrupt the lisp process (depending on the communication style, of course) 10:11:18 That's true. If you have a infinate loop. But he claims SLIME locks up 10:12:09 if it's the emacs side, C-g will interrupt that. other than that, check the *inferior-lisp* buffer 10:13:37 I'd check the buffer bit 10:14:41 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 10:15:20 _8david: 45 minutes left, no time for that :D 10:18:17 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslfb125.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:18:51 <_8david> let us know in 42 minutes how you liked the whooshing sound the deadline made as it flew by 10:19:02 lol 10:19:43 Stamping you feet (virtually) sometimes helps 10:20:19 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:20:19 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:20:19 -!- DrForr [n=drforr@eldwist.darkuncle.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:20:19 -!- Dazhbog [n=sampo@geek.fi] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:20:19 -!- hypno [n=hypno@195.43.248.100] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:20:19 -!- Schmidt [i=lsc@c193-150-248-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:20:49 ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has joined #lisp 10:20:49 jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 10:20:49 Schmidt [i=lsc@c193-150-248-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:20:49 hypno [n=hypno@195.43.248.100] has joined #lisp 10:20:49 Dazhbog [n=sampo@geek.fi] has joined #lisp 10:20:49 DrForr [n=drforr@eldwist.darkuncle.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:22 bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has joined #lisp 10:21:32 morning 10:21:34 sorry for the Jordan misallignment 10:21:46 I get The following functions were used but not defined: PARSE-INTEGRER 10:22:03 do I have to include something for this? 10:22:09 I'm using clisp from GNU 10:22:14 bulibuta: You spelled it wrong! 10:22:33 it's PARSE-INTEGER 10:22:45 haha 10:22:46 true 10:22:48 thanks 10:23:21 nop 10:27:18 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:27:25 hello bulibuta 10:28:48 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 10:31:04 can the body of a restart-case clause access the conditions that was raised somehow? 10:31:12 social sensitivity makes me spesify that nop means No Problem 10:31:25 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:31:51 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:01 Ogedei: yes 10:32:08 Ogedei: if you invoke the restart with the condition as an argument, sure (: 10:32:36 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:32:41 I'm only providing this restart for debugger users... 10:33:23 I guess I could add another handler-bind and store the condition in some clunky variable, but I'd like to know if there's a 'nice' way 10:33:32 Bacta [n=gfdgdf@unaffiliated/bacta] has joined #lisp 10:33:39 *Bacta* fars 10:33:40 That's fine. Yes in Lisp you have the entire stack when doing a conditional 10:33:45 -!- Bacta [n=gfdgdf@unaffiliated/bacta] has left #lisp 10:34:13 handler-bind would be the way yes 10:36:32 Ogedei: There is no 'nice' way that I know of. But it might help if we saw your souce code 10:37:20 or the bit's of it that annoy you would do 10:37:27 <_8david> Ogedei: in case it isn't obvious, listen to antifuchs and ignore jthing 10:37:51 that would be unwise 10:38:56 jthing: http://paste.lisp.org/display/80283 (and yes, it's ugly) 10:39:31 _8david: well, I'm *not* invoking the restart with the condition -- as I said, i'm just providing this for the debugger 10:39:45 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:42:23 Ogedei: I don't find it particualrly ugly. 10:42:39 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:42:47 hm, there's an obvious bug in the (error ...) clause of the outer handler-bind, but you get the point 10:42:51 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 10:43:29 jmbr [n=jmbr@6.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:43:34 I's not obvious to me 10:44:30 incorrectly named variable, not important 10:46:38 oh the *handle-errors* bit? 10:47:01 re 10:48:03 <_8david> Ogedei: a :test expression can be used to grab the condition, which it receives as an argument 10:48:10 Ogedei: You are using this with Hunchentoot, yes? 10:48:37 jthing: nope, allegroserve 10:48:43 ah 10:48:50 _8david: now that's good to know 10:51:04 _8david: though true I fail to see how it is of any relevance whatsoever 10:51:49 perhaps you can elaborate 10:53:32 well, it's obviously cleaner to grab the exception with a :test hack than to register a whole handler for that 10:53:52 anyway, I got my trick to work, debugging my app will be much less painful in the future 10:55:06 5 min. till deadline: private static void SaveTheWorldAndGetTheGirl() <--- final function of the program 10:55:20 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has joined #lisp 10:55:23 JAVA! 10:55:32 *jthing* curses 10:57:40 jollygood [n=jollygoo@12.30.25.226] has joined #lisp 10:59:17 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 11:00:57 deadline whooshed by 11:02:49 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [] 11:04:17 p_i: Curses come in many forms, like the chineese one "May you live in interesting times.." 11:04:18 -!- aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has quit ["KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/"] 11:04:50 lol 11:04:51 also ncurses 11:05:01 (I believe this is the gpl version, or something) 11:05:22 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 11:05:28 oh, no, MIT 11:05:44 rotfl 11:06:46 oh, no, GPL 11:08:41 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 11:09:27 Give me a Berkely! I want to be as free as BSD. 11:10:01 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:10:29 kinnetica [n=kinnetic@c-68-39-155-197.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:46 <_8david> it also avoids stale values of CN in case the restart is invoked explicitly using INVOKE-RESTART without a condition argument 11:13:52 Hmm, is there a function that when applied to, say, (foo 'bar) returns 'bar (with the quote)? 11:14:07 *a function foo 11:14:07 quote 11:15:10 thought quote is not a function 11:15:51 (defun foo (x) (list 'quote x)) 11:16:08 s/thought/though/ 11:16:50 konr: cadr? 11:17:25 Ogedei: no, it was (list 'quote x), but that is pretty amazing 11:17:50 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 11:18:01 stassats: thanks! 11:18:10 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@12.30.25.226] has quit [] 11:19:52 i think `',x can be used also 11:20:33 ((lambda (x) `',x) 'bar) => 'bar 11:21:06 well, if you don't insisnt on it to be a function, then (quote 'bar) => 'bar 11:21:59 or ''bar 11:22:18 the perl monks will love it 11:22:39 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:26:02 quote is a function stassats and a secial form and a ' macro 11:26:03 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:26:08 special 11:26:27 comfusing huh :) 11:26:29 drewc: ONLINEP 11:27:28 KingNato_ [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 11:27:28 -!- KingNato_ [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:28:11 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:30:01 aLeSD [n=alex@161.72.27.220] has joined #lisp 11:30:15 jthing: you are wrong 11:30:20 hi all 11:30:46 It's the first time I'm tring to understand list ... I'm a c/c++ programmer 11:30:53 stassats: About what part exactly? 11:31:05 jthing: about every part 11:31:12 lol 11:31:18 I'm using linux ... What I have to install to use lisp ? 11:31:28 oh it just has a head and a schwanz that's all it has 11:31:30 Ok so quote is not a function 11:31:32 lol 11:31:37 nor it a special form 11:31:53 and ' is not a read macro for quote 11:32:00 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483CFCA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:16 aLeSD, the SBCL compiler, and Emacs with Slime (a plugin for Lisp development) is what most people use 11:32:38 lnostdal: something similanr for vim ? 11:32:50 aLeSD, nope 11:33:24 lnostdal: I'm interested in learning plt-scheme .. is it lisp a good start point ? 11:33:36 s/it/is it/ 11:33:39 it's a scheme implementation 11:33:40 nope 11:33:42 not common isp 11:33:43 go to scheme 11:33:48 channel scheme 11:33:53 or #scheme 11:34:07 That might actually work... 11:34:15 lol 11:34:18 ok ... just another question : liso is a scheme implementation ? 11:34:21 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp388.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 11:34:25 I thought it was viceversa 11:34:51 ah ... sorry 11:34:52 aLeSD, comp.lang.lisp is for Common Lisp .. #lisp is for Common Lisp .. comp.lang.scheme is for Scheme .. #scheme is for Scheme 11:34:54 I misunderstood 11:35:03 aLeSD: no SBCL it is a implementaion of Common Lisp 11:35:38 which is what most people use here 11:35:48 could you explain me the difference between c/c++ and list programming ? 11:36:02 s/list/lisp/ 11:36:06 yo 11:36:16 tu ? 11:36:28 Well for one thing it is more interactive 11:36:41 hmmm .. lisp doesn't make me want to kill myself 11:36:41 aLeSD: reading a book is what you should probably do now 11:37:10 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181140099.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:37:25 Ogedei: a good introduction book ? 11:37:33 yeah, go read some books .. Practical Common Lisp is good 11:37:34 fro my point of view 11:37:35 minion: tell aLeSD about pcl 11:37:36 aLeSD: have a look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 11:37:53 ok thanks 11:37:56 But if you really want to know I suggest you read Practical Common Lisp by Peter Seibel http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 11:37:59 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-3529a7fe9d4b52f5] has left #lisp 11:38:10 :) 11:38:23 sorry for being so slow.. 11:38:46 I need lisp to livecoding 3d visual images connected to music 11:38:58 aLeSD: C vs CL (common lisp) is about the same difference as an aeroplane vs a car (they both transport stuff and burn fuel, but that's about it) 11:39:26 ok ... studing 11:39:44 you might need to do some OpenGL then; http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-opengl/ 11:40:13 ok .. I have for a week ... see ya 11:40:22 good luck! The book is an easy read, but contains much much information, expect it to take some time for everything to get into your mind :) 11:40:38 do your worst.. aLeSD 11:40:46 :D 11:43:50 MrEdward [i=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-28-37.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:44:40 -!- KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:45:52 in auctex - how can i use emacs as dvi-viewer directly (C-c C-c "view" -> ...)? 11:46:23 trebor_d`: you want mmm-mode 11:46:34 Hmmm, often times, I want to use the elements in a list returned by a function in another function, eg (+ (range 1 10)). In this case, I could do an (eval (cons '+ (range 1 10))), but I guess this is bad style. Is there a general solution for this problem, or I shouldn't be using things like (range)? 11:47:10 see the axiom source 11:47:30 or look at literate Haskell for that matter 11:48:18 konr: (reduce #'+ (range 1 10)) 11:48:23 ugh, that should be 3 m's mmm 11:49:55 konr: general solutin for function with n-parameters: (apply #'function list) 11:50:15 jthing: mmm-mode is not included in standard-distribution (cvs), right? 11:50:25 ,mmm-mode 11:50:35 trebor_d`: no 11:50:43 (ups this is not #emacs, as i see now) 11:51:21 trebor_d`: It is neverthelsess useful 11:51:53 jthing: it's not what trebor_d` was asking for 11:52:10 konr: apply ? 11:52:23 stassats: No, but I think it is waht he needs 11:53:09 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-19-165.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:53:30 jthing: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=8658 ? that seems somehow different (as far as i understand) 11:54:09 so it is 11:54:49 konr: as in: (apply '+ (range 1 10)) (where does range come from btw) 11:55:26 range if from series I believe 11:55:46 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:53 You can't miz that with ordinary functions 11:56:01 mix 11:56:14 The lazy evaluation bit 11:56:30 well, somebody should tell about reduce vs. apply, i'm tired of this 11:56:53 cracki [n=cracki@45-201.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:56:59 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 11:57:46 ok, apply has maximum *arg-limit* arguments, reduce can extend to the extent of your stack 11:58:22 somebody, but not younder 11:59:43 sorry I've all you got 12:00:11 -!- attila_lendvai__ is now known as attila_lendvai 12:00:32 still no update for usocket? 12:01:24 *call-argument-limit* sorry 12:01:31 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:01:46 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 12:02:03 well, somebody should tell about reduce vs. apply, i'm tired of 12:02:03 this 12:02:03 *** cracki (n=cracki@45-201.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE) has joined channel #lisp 12:02:03 *** Davse_Bamse (n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk) has joined channel #lisp 12:02:06 ok, apply has maximum *arg-limit* arguments, reduce can extend to the 12:02:07 <_death> are you actually referring to sbcl's problem with `sb-unix:unix-fast-select'? 12:02:09 extent of your stack [15:57] 12:02:11 somebody, but not younder [15:58] 12:02:14 sorry I've all you got [15:59] 12:02:20 *** attila_lendvai__ (n=ati@adsl-89-132-5-39.monradsl.monornet.hu) is now 12:02:20 known as attila_lendvai [16:00] 12:02:23 still no update for usocket? 12:02:26 *call-argument-limit* sorry [16:01] 12:02:29 *** Spyderco (n=nash@194.45.110.65) has quit: Read error: 54 (Connection reset 12:02:31 fascinating 12:02:32 by peer) 12:02:36 *** Spyderco (n=nash@194.45.110.65) has joined channel #lisp 12:02:39 > well, somebody should tell about reduce vs. apply, i'm tired of 12:02:42 this 12:02:45 *** cracki (n=cracki@45-201.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE) has joined channel #lisp 12:02:50 *** Davse_Bamse (n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk) has joined channel #lisp 12:02:50 ok, apply has maximum *arg-limit* arguments, reduce can extend to the 12:02:53 extent of your stack [15:57] 12:02:56 somebody, but not younder [15:58] 12:02:59 sorry I've all you got [15:59] 12:03:03 *** attila_lendvai__ (n=ati@adsl-89-132-5-39.monradsl.monornet.hu) is now 12:03:06 known as attila_lendvai [16:00] 12:03:09 still no update for usocket? 12:03:12 *call-argument-limit* sorry [16:01] 12:03:15 stassats: Your copy & paste is working. 12:03:16 *** Spyderco (n=nash@194.45.110.65) has quit: Read error: 54 (Connection reset 12:03:17 This is getting tiring 12:03:20 by peer) 12:03:20 *** Spyderco (n=nash@194.45.110.65) has joined channel #lisp 12:03:23 > call-arguments-limit, sorry? 12:03:29 oh 12:03:32 we should really have an auto kick-er here, too i've met on other channels... 12:03:32 did i say something? 12:03:42 sorry 12:03:49 beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-3-88.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:04:04 This is probaly due to Spyderco 12:04:04 then we didn't have to tell to use lisppaste so many times either... :) 12:04:11 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:04:39 ofcourse jthing :\ 12:04:42 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 12:05:16 You were the last to join before this maham set it 12:06:04 in 12:06:06 *stassats* mistook actual ERC repl with copy of it 12:07:10 OK 12:07:43 Sorry for thouse false accusations Spyderco 12:07:56 its ok 12:08:00 i get that alot 12:08:40 <_death> attila_lendvai: noise drowned my question, so I'll ask again: are you actually referring to sbcl's problem with `sb-unix:unix-fast-select'? 12:08:52 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-10-119.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:09:28 _death: yes, but i've realized that if i fix my image building script i can ignore the error and it'll just work... 12:10:05 i'd like to get rid of usocket in favor of iolib in our last dependency, too (postmodern) 12:10:30 -!- DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-220-251-117.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 12:10:45 attila_lendvai, just comment out the thing depending on u-f-s in usocket and it compiles 12:10:52 ..without noise 12:11:04 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:07 <_death> or just revert that defective commit 12:12:08 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:13:52 DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-220-251-117.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:04 erm, hm, (defun x () (sb-unix:unix-gettimeofday)) gives weird warnings on sbcl head. calling it works fine 12:14:07 or maybe i'm wrong .. i'll try clearing some fasls .. :P 12:14:47 <_death> attila_lendvai: same cause.. calling it doesn't work fine here 12:15:14 yeah, same thing .. heh 12:15:22 lnostdal: asdf stops due to code deletion warnings, if you just accept it then it goes on (fasl already written) 12:15:31 <_death> 1.0.28.34 12:16:10 on "1.0.28.34" if i paste (sb-unix:unix-gettimeofday) in the repl then i get back sensible data 12:16:58 something might have been screwed up with inlining... 12:17:15 <_death> that's because it was compiled with sbcl, methinks 12:17:42 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:17:51 yeah, i think inlining triggers it also .. i'm gonna try ... sbcl takes forever to compile on this thing :/ 12:18:09 oh, nope. syscall* has been probably converted to be a cross compile macro and it's not available anymore when the inlined code is compiled 12:18:16 <_death> I meant that 1.0.28.34 is responsible for the problem, afaict 12:18:55 yep, (sb!xc:defmacro syscall* ...) 12:19:07 use that standard common lisp function instead 12:19:32 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:19:40 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 12:19:46 -!- thomas_ [n=thomas@40-127.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:19:51 jthing: i need the extra resolution. 12:19:56 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-19-165.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:19:57 afterall why rely on system spesific behaviour if you don't have to? 12:20:27 attila_lendvai: Ah the milli seconds? 12:20:47 micro 12:20:58 it's in local-time 12:21:58 *attila_lendvai* writes a mail to sbcl-devel 12:23:23 catnap [n=tommi@new7.kyla.fi] has joined #lisp 12:23:36 what should I do, if slime is hung 12:24:04 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 12:24:05 some times I would like to abort a function that takes plenty of time 12:24:16 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:30 <_death> `C-c C-c' 12:24:56 that was also in manual 12:25:00 but it doesn't seem to work 12:25:04 this is what I do 12:25:07 attila_lendvai, (compile nil '(lambda () (sb-unix:unix-select 0 nil nil nil 2))) vs. (compile nil '(lambda () (sb-unix:unix-fast-select 0 nil nil nil 2 2))) ... the 2nd fails because of inlining 12:25:20 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@6.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:25:29 ..if i'm not mistaken.. 12:25:31 ah 12:25:33 I define a function f that iterates trought all numbers from 0 to n 12:25:44 then I try (f 5000000) 12:26:11 the program doesn't abort even if I press ^C ^C 12:27:17 I see a message "Commencing GC with 13.7 MB in use." 12:27:34 catnap: why don't you insert a (break) in the function? 12:28:18 jthing: for one reason, because I don't know how to do that, but also because this is just a test function 12:28:37 what implementation? 12:28:48 catnap: just insert the verbatim code (break) 12:29:10 jthing: I will try that 12:29:28 stassats: I forgot, but there was some command that tells 12:29:45 catnap: (lisp-implementation-type) 12:30:23 -!- _8david [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:31:09 stassats: it's CMU Common Lisp 12:31:43 any particular reason you use it and not SBCL? 12:32:41 no reason 12:32:55 it was easy to install this in ubuntu 12:33:20 well, sbcl is as easy to install in Ubuntu 12:33:25 apt-get install sbcl :) 12:33:42 but this was the default when I installed slime 12:33:45 (though depending on the age of your ubuntu you may get a terrible, old one; you might be better compiling it from source) 12:34:21 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 12:34:26 hello 12:34:34 "sudo apt-get install sbcl" probably 12:34:52 I'm now installing SBCL 12:34:56 -!- DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-220-251-117.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 12:35:02 but will slime use it? 12:35:25 not unless you tell it to 12:35:51 I already sense trouble 12:36:04 but seriously, how is't done? 12:36:43 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:37:41 attila_lendvai, http://paste.lisp.org/display/80286 12:37:48 <_death> catnap: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Multiple-Lisps.html 12:37:54 You can have a look at my .emacs file 12:39:11 thank you - I will take a look 12:39:28 http://paste.lisp.org/display/80287. 12:39:52 jmbr [n=jmbr@6.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:40:14 lnostdal: yes, i know that's what 1.0.28.34 have done to syscall* 12:40:18 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:40:44 yeah, int-syscall is also used in inlined functions btw. 12:41:18 not sure about the others .. syscall* also perhaps (unix-fast-getrusage uses it, and seems to be inlined) 12:41:28 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:42:47 does removing these macros really save much space? .. i mean vs. complexity in dealing with changes; maybe one will want to inline stuff later .. or one will want to introduce new functions which use the macros and thinking they can be declaimed inline etc. 12:44:02 spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:44:06 Good afternoon 12:44:12 hey 12:44:32 catnap: I should warn you that I use a core with socket support and SWANC compiled in 12:45:20 I'm not going to copy paste that file completely 12:45:33 oh feh, (make-foo ..) -> (init-foo (alloc-foo ...) ...) messes with stack allocation :/ 12:45:44 the part that defines SBCL as Lisp implementation should be enough 12:45:56 right 12:46:06 hello spiaggia 12:46:07 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:08 where is that .emacs file found? 12:46:19 http://paste.lisp.org/display/80287. 12:46:34 yes, but in my system 12:46:37 <_death> catnap: ~ 12:46:51 ~/.emacs 12:47:09 I looked - it's not there 12:47:14 should I create a new one? 12:47:19 so make one 12:47:26 catnap: yes 12:49:11 now you need a 'whereis sbc'l to adjust the location 12:49:38 and drop the core and load bit 12:49:54 sbcl 12:51:23 but use absolute pathnames. (it defends against hackers) 12:51:29 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:11 lnostdal: i don't know, i leave it to the souls who know sbcl internals better than me... :) 12:53:48 yeah, link the the paste if you wish .. blame me if it's wrong .. x) 12:53:53 attila_lendvai: what do you think about guessing the offset for encode-timestamp? 12:53:56 link to* 12:55:01 lnostdal: they are smart enough to know what's wrong. it's just that they didn't think of it... 12:55:19 ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has joined #lisp 12:55:32 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 12:55:51 dlowe: i don't really have a strong opinion, but the guy sounds reasonable and his need for such a function also. 12:55:54 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:18 attila_lendvai: that's the problem. Both options are reasonable. 12:56:21 dlowe: but i'm pretty useless for a well grounded opinion about timezones 12:56:37 *dlowe* just hates them. 12:57:26 I don't find sbcl-init.lisp 12:57:36 Dan Farmer's "proctecting your system by breaking into it." provides some clues why absolure pathnames should be uesed. 12:57:48 jthing: is that some of your own file? 12:58:05 not that's a oldie 12:58:09 -!- alpheus [n=user@c-98-213-176-16.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:58:14 no 12:58:24 -!- delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:01:42 Can't seem to find it on the web anymore. 13:02:08 Perhaps it is to sensitive. 13:02:27 something went wrong 13:02:35 implementation is still CMU 13:02:55 I did put (setq inferior-lisp-program "sbcl") 13:03:01 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:03:40 well that should have worked. 13:04:00 it interferes with site-wide configuration in ubuntu 13:04:25 minion: tell catnap about clbuild 13:04:26 catnap: look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 13:04:33 ahh, site_init 13:04:50 blegh!, writing cross-platform wrappers means you have to deal with c, c++ and worse yet windows and directx :( 13:04:58 nevertheless .emacs should take presedence 13:05:08 thanks minion, I will take a look at that 13:05:30 I use clbuild.. 13:06:24 and minion is just one of crystof's bot's 13:06:49 what? 13:07:01 A rather good one.. 13:12:15 my .emacs is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/173002/ 13:12:21 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 13:12:37 jthing: can you take a short glance in case there's something wrong with't 13:13:07 catnap: seems ok, does it work? 13:14:00 slime still uses CMU as implementation 13:14:18 did you restart emacs? 13:14:26 yes, I did 13:14:35 I worry, that emacs did not read my file 13:14:46 catnap: looks OK to me 13:15:52 catnap: purge slime, and install it from CVS 13:15:56 do a cd  and a pwd and put the absoulte directory in 13:16:27 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:17:02 apt-get --purge remove slime 13:17:27 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:17:47 apt-get --purge slime 13:18:04 jthing: wrong 13:18:04 is that really necessary 13:18:18 catnap: it's too old in ubuntu 13:18:22 no poobably not 13:18:29 more than a year old 13:18:30 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-111.netcologne.de] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 13:18:30 heh... sent the assignment, two hours late ^^; (I'm preparing a CL version in meantime) 13:18:32 nA1828KcFz9q [n=nA1828Kc@cpe-071-065-237-135.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:38 it won't work anyway with current sbcl 13:19:05 ok, better get more recent version 13:19:27 that's a good bet 13:19:50 and than just add (add-to-list 'load-path "~/path/to/slime/") 13:20:02 Get the lot from clbuild 13:20:12 don't forget to purge ubuntu package 13:20:15 including slime 13:20:16 slime is removed now 13:21:46 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-155-65.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["leaving"] 13:23:44 is there a way to change the implementation while slime is running? 13:23:52 yes 13:24:06 add more entries to slime-lisp-implementations 13:24:28 I have 3 13:25:06 beach``` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-27-178.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:25:12 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-39-7-56.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:58 chessguy_ [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:06 atarashi [n=code@y225183.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:26:19 wb gigamonk` 13:28:27 jthing: eh? 13:28:41 ah, "welcome back"? 13:29:04 right 13:30:05 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 13:33:44 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:35:21 -!- danlei` [n=user@pD9E2D898.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:37:25 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 13:38:59 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 13:39:33 -!- nA1828KcFz9q [n=nA1828Kc@cpe-071-065-237-135.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:40:15 danlei [n=user@pD954F7DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:30 -!- beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-3-88.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:42:01 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 13:42:07 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.254.12] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:42:09 I wonder if anybody uses lisp-matrix here 13:42:33 I installed it on my system last night. 13:42:56 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-79-200-142.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:43:16 *Phoodus* took the blue pill 13:44:52 semyon421 [n=semyon@dau.itep.ru] has joined #lisp 13:45:03 deliana [n=deliana@147.210.246.189] has joined #lisp 13:45:25 -!- deliana [n=deliana@147.210.246.189] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:46:11 *jthing* took the red one 13:46:54 <_death> apparently Franz put some of its stuff up on github: http://github.com/franzinc 13:47:24 -!- kinnetica [n=kinnetic@c-68-39-155-197.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 13:47:56 no ACL 13:48:13 deathgrub 13:48:40 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634405.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 13:49:05 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:08 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 13:49:09 G'morning all. 13:50:38 hi nyef 13:50:39 hi nyef 13:50:49 Anything interesting happening? 13:51:26 weekend's happening! 13:51:27 not just some stuff on clbuild 13:52:09 catnap has some real grief 13:52:33 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 13:52:51 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has quit ["leaving"] 13:53:30 Mmm... I started looking at UI stuff again. 13:53:59 mcclim? 13:54:40 Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has joined #lisp 13:55:42 Not a big fan of McCLIM, actually. 13:55:55 _death: thats interseting 13:56:14 And this time my path started at GLX, specifically the GLX stuff in CLX (which looks to be underdocumented and incomplete). 13:57:17 when they say An implementation of Python in Common Lisp, does it mean cl can load python modules? 13:57:24 In the end, I found that the only CLX-based UI toolkit in active development or maintainership appears to be McCLIM. 13:57:37 leo2007: depends on how good it is 13:57:45 i see 13:57:59 leo2007: it can't load stuff that depends on FFI 13:58:55 due to Python's FFI not being really FFI ;_) 13:58:57 *;-) 13:59:08 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087FB50.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:33 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634405.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:00:43 clx is crap nyef 14:01:03 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:01:18 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 14:01:34 *p_l* notes that every system he has has support for X11. Not so with rest of the available toolkits 14:01:37 you are much better off with McCLiim 14:01:52 Or WxWinows 14:02:00 windows 14:02:05 I am so happy we can always rely on jthing's swift and accurate judgement. 14:02:15 I tried to install clbuild 14:02:20 is anyone still working on wxwindows ffi? 14:02:24 What backends does McClim support these days? 14:02:27 rlol 14:02:39 gigamonk`: CLX, of course :D 14:02:43 this says that Cannot find a working installation of git 14:02:51 gigamonk`: clx and gtkairo, but clx works way better 14:02:58 I did install git, but the same message appears 14:03:00 clx and a couple of others in various states of brokenness 14:03:01 gigamonk`: All execept mac and windows 14:03:45 gigamonk`: rather important exceptions though 14:04:16 So gtkairo is a layer on top of Cairo? 14:04:30 jthing: CLX may be crap, but it's the most polished crap we have for linux UI. 14:04:49 gigamonk`: gt is just the Gnome Tookit 14:05:00 I looked at CLG, but it doesn't have anything for OpenGL out of the box. 14:05:11 nyef: No it isn't 14:05:32 jthing: right. But Cairo is a graphics library that can be used without Gtk, right? 14:05:44 gigamonk`: right, GTK uses it as a backend 14:05:50 nyef: again NO 14:06:11 gigamonk`: again NO 14:06:27 Things have moved on 14:06:57 [citation needed] 14:06:59 One certainly can use Cairo as a standalone library. 14:07:13 There is a new graphics library about 14:07:42 *nyef* sees "new graphics library" and thinks "untested by time and serious use" 14:07:45 so what? I'm waiting for vector-based X12. Won't happen due to X.Org 14:07:58 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-62.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 14:08:33 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:09:14 jthing: so what are you saying, that gtkairo doesn't use Cario anymore? 14:09:38 I never said that 14:10:08 jthing: no, you've only been acting like a prolog implementation. 14:10:27 I said there's a new UI developement toolkit baout. 14:10:37 about 14:10:52 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:11:02 don't you follow the times? 14:11:14 sigh 14:11:15 jthing: sometimes I forcibly kick back 14:11:25 lol 14:11:33 and what that new toolkit might be? 14:11:46 A new CLX-based UI toolkit that was listed on cliki yesterday? I find that hard to believe. 14:11:53 gigamonk`: gtkairo use both cairo and gtk 14:12:13 sigh 14:12:58 I have the source of slime now - what should I do with it? 14:13:22 jthing: mind you, if there's something really interesting, I'll happily switch... so far, nothing 14:13:28 nyef and stassats ,willl you ever have proper jobs? 14:13:47 catnap: add (add-to-list 'load-path "~/path/to/slime/") to .emacs you showed earlier 14:14:32 ok, but I don't see any slime executable 14:14:34 -!- chessguy_ is now known as chessguy 14:14:45 stassats: I found a bug in fuzzy complete 14:14:46 slime has no executables 14:15:06 leo2007: great, report it to slime-devel@common-lisp.net 14:16:09 jthing: I'm sitting here in an office building, wearing a tie, waiting for a code checkin using some atrociously slow tools, and you ask if I'm ever going to have a proper job? 14:16:33 nyef: you know who you're talking to, right? (: 14:16:36 Wearing a tie. I'm sorry on your behalf. :/ 14:16:43 jthing: I still don't know what you're trying to say. 14:16:45 antifuchs: who? 14:16:54 john tingstad says the ident. 14:17:04 gigamonk`: it's younder 14:17:09 in disguise 14:17:21 it's me 14:17:30 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.254.12] has joined #lisp 14:17:33 And I am pissed off 14:18:13 stassats: I'm going to do that. Could you help me verify the bug? it is easy to reproduce. 14:18:25 tic: Actually, the tie is more than a little optional. But the project I'm working on is a pain. 14:18:26 leo2007: i can, yes 14:18:43 1. (setq slime-complete-symbol-function 'slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol) 14:18:43 this says "No match" when I type M-x slime 14:18:44 I know there is a new user interface,but by inadequate memory disallows me from remembering int 14:19:05 so there 14:19:10 2. M-x slime-describe-function 14:19:24 3. lo TAB TAB 14:19:26 jthing: Are you talk abaout a new Lisp-based user interface. Or a new user interface somewhere in the wider world. 14:19:40 gigamonk`: C interface 14:19:43 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has quit ["leaving"] 14:19:58 after following 1, 2, 3. did you see the minibuffer takes up half of the screen? 14:20:06 yep 14:20:29 i saw that before, didn't mind to reproduce 14:20:44 jthing: Sorry. I'm really not following you. Never mind. 14:21:16 nyef, so my sorryness on your behalf still applies. Either of tie and sucky tools is bad enough. 14:21:25 this is how .emacs looks like currently 14:21:28 http://paste.ubuntu.com/173045/ 14:22:35 i don't use slime-autoloads and not sure whether it works, try (require 'slime) instead 14:24:42 Does McClim draw its own widgets (buttons, menus, etc.)? 14:25:07 in gtkairo? 14:25:14 tic: I like the tie... And hate the tools. 14:25:28 http://paste.lisp.org/display/80287 14:25:42 nyef, so it all evens out, in the end. 14:25:53 my Lisp file 14:25:58 -!- schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2407989ce7dbdc3f] has quit ["mibbit.com: cu"] 14:26:29 nyef: lol 14:27:12 stassats: thanks. bug reported. Have you convinced fuzzy to do contextual completion? 14:27:31 leo2007: not yet 14:27:58 hmm... the only really mind-blowing thing for me when it comes to GUI would be if someone mixed together ideas from PlanB/Octopus and WPF together, except with better keyboard integration... 14:29:33 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:29:45 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 14:29:47 gigamonkey` [n=user@adsl-99-24-218-217.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:28 stassats: I'm using compound for the moment ;) 14:32:23 how to clean up namespace after interactively using it for sometime? 14:32:40 namespace? 14:32:53 Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has joined #lisp 14:33:12 for example, I use cl-user for testing and how to restore it to its original state 14:33:33 easy way: restart lisp 14:33:38 stassats: i 14:33:49 i'd like to avoid restarting lisp 14:34:07 leo2007: you can unintern symbols and unuse-package packages. 14:34:07 well, another way: delete all internal symbols 14:34:27 I think in matlab or R, you can list user defined variables and functions, and delete them if you want to 14:35:10 leo2007: (package-use-list :cl-user) then (defpackage :cl-user (:use ...)) -> define a package that uses the same packages as cl-user 14:35:14 in lisp there is no distinction between user or not user defined symbols 14:35:38 mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 14:36:03 -!- mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:36:31 mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has joined #lisp 14:36:40 leo2007: though stassats suggestion to unintern internal symbols is probably about the same. Something like: 14:36:46 (do-symbols (sym :cl-user) (if (eql (symbol-package sym) (find-package :cl-user)) (format t "~&~a ~a" sym (symbol-package sym)))) 14:36:59 er, except UNINTERN it rather than printing it out. 14:37:08 any elephant users around?preferably ones using transient slots ;-) 14:37:14 blandest: probavly better not to use cl-user, and make a new package for testing 14:37:29 creating your own package and deleting it is better 14:37:31 oh, by the way, I was wondering: if I unintern a symbol which was the last reference to some function, will the code be reclaimed by the GC ? 14:37:47 on sbcl, I mean. 14:37:51 michaelw: I usually create a test package, but in this case I would start a new lisp image 14:38:10 (make-package :my-cl-user :use (package-use-list :cl-user)) 14:38:31 kuwabara: code objects are GCed like other regular objects. 14:38:57 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:39:10 pkhuong: thanks. 14:40:11 well, actually... The GC is more conservative on code objects. 14:40:27 many thanks for the help ;) 14:41:08 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-39-7-56.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:41:10 pkhuong: isn't the GC quite conservative already ? 14:42:44 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-39-7-56.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:42:51 there's an error message, when I start emacs 14:43:00 I guess that is the reason for these problems 14:43:08 what error message? 14:43:34 kuwabara: "quite"? 14:43:45 http://paste.ubuntu.com/173059/ 14:44:00 feanil [n=feanil@129.188.33.26] has joined #lisp 14:44:07 -!- feanil [n=feanil@129.188.33.26] has left #lisp 14:44:18 catnap: your  is not ' 14:44:57 all symbols with a symbol-function are reachable by the gc through some global tables in sbcl, even if the symbol is uninterned 14:45:04 globaldb is the bane of unintern not releasing functions 14:45:09 oops, echo 14:46:22 OberWork [n=user@32.97.110.63] has joined #lisp 14:46:27 jsnell: ok, so the question slides: after a fmakunbound, the gc does reclaim the memory doesn't it ? 14:46:28 it looks like in some cases keyword and symbol are interchangeable. is this correct? 14:46:54 leo2007: keywords are symbols. 14:46:55 in cases where something uses only symbol-name 14:48:14 kuwabara: yes 14:48:24 pkhuong: so is :keyword a symbol named keyword or :keyword? 14:48:28 (that applies to all symbols in different packages, not just keywords) 14:48:44 leo2007: it's a symbol in the KEYWORD package 14:49:13 : is a reader macro to intern the symbol in the KEYWORD package, just as quote interns stuff in *package* 14:49:15 and named without colon 14:49:24 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 14:49:57 stassats: I changed the ` to ', but it didn't make a difference 14:50:00 tic: quote interns nothing. 14:50:14 pkhuong, INTERN does! 14:50:14 i see. So where keyword is used, it can be changed to symbol, right? 14:50:14 : is not a reader macro 14:50:22 okay, I'll be quiet. Sorry guys. 14:50:33 leo2007: not quite 14:50:53 could you give an example? 14:51:00 leo2007: (eq keyword:test :test) 14:51:24 something changed now 14:52:04 (equal (symbol-name :foo) (symbol-name cl-user:foo)) => T, (eql :foo cl-user:foo) => NIL 14:52:04 emacs clearly tries to start sbcl, but I don't see the slime repl 14:52:18 that depends on what property of the symbols you are using 14:52:23 stassats: quoting. 14:52:28 but for (package-use-list 'cl-user) and (package-use-list :cl-user), whey are they doing the same thing? 14:52:43 pkhuong: oh, yeah 14:52:55 ejs [n=eugen@117-144-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:15 leo2007: yes 14:53:32 in fact, (package-use-list "CL-USER") will work to 14:53:34 o 14:53:39 leo2007: the parameter to #'pacakge-use-list expects a 'package designator', so both work 14:53:42 how do I get Lisp REPL? 14:53:43 leo2007: both symbols are package-designators, as well as a string 14:53:58 i see, many thanks 14:54:06 s/expects/is 14:54:27 milanj [n=milan@93.86.112.192] has joined #lisp 14:54:53 for someone coming from elisp, how to begin with common lisp? 14:55:29 leo2007: read practical common lisp 14:55:30 leo2007: I think you are already doing "it". I also started with elisp :) 14:55:46 books also help 14:56:39 i got a hard copy of pcl ;) very nice 14:56:39 this is the last message, when I try to start slime "Swank started at port: 50257. 14:56:58 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:58:27 catnap: Sounds like you need to add the slime-repl or slime-fancy contrib to your configuration. 14:59:35 I already have this (slime-setup '(slime-scratch slime-fancy)) 15:00:12 nikodemus pasted "aiee, my eyes!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80294 15:01:29 nyef: can you give some example? 15:01:48 -!- cracki [n=cracki@45-201.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:01:57 I'm out of ideas, sorry. 15:03:39 my bad - the repl is actually working already 15:03:57 it is just very different from the previous repl that I had with CMU 15:03:57 nikodemus: Compiler guts. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em? 15:05:04 wohoo! now that C-c C-c abort command works 15:05:44 thanks every one for help 15:06:09 attila_lendvai: is there an easy way in dwim for a command to replace another component in the page without page reload? 15:06:43 deylen [n=deylen@94-194-104-130.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:06:53 attila_lendvai: I have a center component which I would replace with a menu click 15:08:08 hmmm... cl-smoke seems to progressing fast 15:08:32 Does anyone know of a function that would allow me to switch between upper and lower case for numbers? (ie. switch 8 for *, 7 for &) 15:09:04 deylen: that has more to do with keyboard mapping than character case 15:09:10 deylen: 8 and * are not on the same key on my keyboard. 15:09:20 deylen: not all keyboards have the same shift number modifiers 15:09:20 deylen: on my keyboard, shift-8 is ( 15:09:44 Ah ok thanks, 'll put in some changeable bindings then :) 15:10:04 this is maybe a weird question, but is there a *repl-hook-fns* (or something) type of thing in CL or SBCL? .. a way to record everything that happens at the REPL, in real-time? .. i'd like to try to show what i do at the REPL in a window in the browser as i go along 15:11:26 ..maybe real-time streaming in a iframe is better 15:11:30 ISTR some sort of recording option in the standard, but may simply be misremembering. 15:11:37 dribble 15:11:49 SBCL also has a defined way to replace the REPL completely, as used by SB-ACLREPL. 15:11:50 there's dribble, but it doesn't seem to do this 15:12:07 ok - maybe i'll find something there 15:15:21 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:16:50 HG` [n=wells@xdslfb125.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:22:52 -!- mcspiff [n=user@DC7CB.WPA.Dal.Ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:24:32 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:24:50 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 15:25:45 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 15:26:19 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:26:27 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:26:55 KalifG [n=user@mdwyer-mac.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:27:39 optikalmouse [n=user@bas1-toronto10-1279559280.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:27:57 ack, problem with SLIME! I see an *inferior-lisp* buffer but not sbcl-slime repl, help :S 15:29:03 you have to load slime-fancy or slime-repl 15:29:07 the repl is a contrib now. 15:29:21 -!- deylen [n=deylen@94-194-104-130.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 15:29:24 hm 15:29:31 with (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 15:30:04 what's the diff between fancy and repl? 15:30:16 slime-fancy includes slime-repl 15:30:22 fancy pulls in some convenience stuff you probably also want. 15:30:26 repl is just the repl. 15:30:28 ah, sweet, thanks 15:30:29 :D 15:34:00 Traveler4 [n=traveler@117.193.194.115] has joined #lisp 15:34:22 how to draw an arc in mcclim 15:34:31 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 15:36:17 (Sounds like a tutorial title, not a question.) 15:36:41 nyef: enough if u name the function if available 15:37:04 I don't know offhand, but I'll take a guess... 15:37:08 clim draw-arc 15:37:08 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for draw-arc. 15:37:12 Hrm. 15:37:29 clim present 15:37:29 Multiple entries found. Try looking up one of: "present,Presentation Method", "present,Function", "present,Concept" 15:37:32 clim present,function 15:37:33 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/23-4.html#_1193 15:38:16 Of course. It's a special-case of draw-circle. 15:38:20 clim draw-circle 15:38:20 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/12-5.html#_634 15:38:21 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:34 Note the start-angle and end-angle arguments. 15:38:50 Also for draw-ellipse. 15:38:51 clim draw-ellipse 15:38:51 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/12-5.html#_632 15:38:56 ah, nyef got it 15:39:00 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-62.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:39:22 I dont think draw-circle will help me, i want to plot a line chart 15:40:32 Hrm... 15:40:36 clim define-graphics-method 15:40:36 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for define-graphics-method. 15:40:42 Yeah, didn't think so. 15:40:43 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 15:41:11 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.75.221] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:41:16 How typically CLIM. Mention something like that in passing, but not actually give any reasonable definition. 15:42:57 -!- semyon421 [n=semyon@dau.itep.ru] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:43:22 hjpark [n=user@116.40.135.22] has joined #lisp 15:43:32 so i'm wasting time with clim? 15:44:04 where can I get the ANSI Common lisp langauge specification? 15:44:48 Traveler4: That's a decision for you to make. I'm just annoyed at how bad the spec can be. 15:44:49 clhs 1.1 15:44:49 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/01_a.htm 15:45:01 JoelMcCracken [n=jmccrack@student312-1.psc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:45:17 is there any preferred html/xml parser for common lisp? 15:45:24 cxml 15:45:27 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181140099.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 15:45:51 cxml is a nice parser 15:46:00 it's sort of weirdly file-focused, though. 15:46:05 hjpark: above link was for you 15:47:11 stassats: It can be used for lisp implementation? 15:47:27 it is used for that, de facto 15:47:36 stassats: thanks :) 15:47:39 it's not a de jure standard 15:47:53 thanks =) 15:48:05 I suspect that I may give McCLIM a try again soon, if only because I don't see anything else that comes close to suiting my needs out of the box and I don't particularly want to build a new box. 15:48:13 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:48:33 Fade: is there a good way to parse the format cxml outputs? 15:48:54 i.e. to actually extract parts of the tree that match certain characteristics? 15:49:11 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 15:49:32 <_death> I liked the cl-xmlspam approach 15:50:00 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:00 there's always XPath... :) 15:51:14 hjpark: you can also download a local copy --- http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/common-lisp.html 15:53:58 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:54:26 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087FB50.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:56:46 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:59:57 guaqua: cxml includes 'sinks' for various output formats, including back to xml from dom or whatever. 16:00:13 -!- aLeSD [n=alex@161.72.27.220] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:00:16 stassats: are you sure that sbcl doesn't work with the older slime 16:00:21 for me it seems to work 16:00:23 Fade: have to put some research into it 16:00:29 -!- ASau` [n=user@host195-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Off"] 16:00:55 the cxml examples shows a google search links extraction function that shows how to pull elements out of a parse. 16:01:17 it's quite simplistic and didn't work very well with anything non-trivial 16:01:28 i did put significant effort into it :( 16:01:40 i'm not following, what was simplistic? 16:01:48 the kind of elements 16:02:07 well, you can call the elements by name or attribute. 16:02:10 extracting a cell from a table of tables 16:02:12 or both. 16:02:25 minion: plexippus 16:02:26 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``plexippus''. 16:02:26 that doesn't have any meaningful attributes! 16:02:29 minion: plexippus-xpath 16:02:29 plexippus-xpath: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/plexippus-xpath 16:02:43 catnap: maybe your sbcl is old too 16:02:52 my problem with cxml is that it mostly wants to read data from the filesystem. 16:02:52 i know of plexippus 16:02:57 well yeah, it's hard to extract information from badly designed XML. 16:03:19 Fade: "mostly"? 16:03:37 i was thinking more in the lines of me providing a form like (:table 'any) and it would return the first table it would find 16:03:46 sort of pattern matching 16:03:51 well, there is some concession made for reading streams, but the use isn't too clear; i haven't had time to read the cxml source itself, yet. 16:03:58 manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-51-88.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:04:46 Fade: you pass an (unsigned-byte 8) stream as the input, incredibly enough. 16:04:50 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:46 which is to say, it was largely undocumented; i intended to read through the code to figure it out. thanks for the hint. :) 16:05:53 wow 16:06:18 http://bc.tech.coop/blog/090508.html I might not be able to make it to the boston lisp meeting this month because I'm moving over to Minnesota 16:06:21 and now I see this. 16:06:56 p_l pasted "CommonQT failure trying to start Currency Converter Demo" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80300 16:07:18 lisp is marching over the earth 16:07:23 Fade: everything's documented in the documentation, around . 16:08:11 thanks, pkhuong 16:08:39 guaqua: I'd use use cxml-stp and look at the examples, , especially the one for "getElementsByTagNameNS("foo", "")". 16:09:09 that commonqt error reminds me of null pointers in C... 16:09:25 anyhow, cxml has been pretty good in my tests so far; i just didn't grok it 100%. 16:09:34 xach had a blog post praising it quite recently. 16:10:30 pkhuong: this is what i'm trying to extract data from: http://alk.tiehallinto.fi/alk/tiesaa/tiesaa_kokomaa.html 16:10:39 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has quit ["weekend! (tav: hehe)"] 16:10:44 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 16:10:48 lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:11:11 guaqua: you wanted getElementsByTagName, it's right there in the docs. 16:11:28 pkhuong: i never wanted that 16:11:54 i wanted to be able to provide with arbitrary s-expressions and find them from the tree cxml returns 16:12:09 with some ambiguity, off courne 16:12:11 course 16:12:36 p_l: questions. 1. how far into the demo do you get? 2. can you try that without slime? 3. which OS, which version of Qt 4. how did you build kde-bindings? 16:12:51 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:13:09 -!- Traveler4 [n=traveler@117.193.194.115] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:14:08 guaqua: you wanted the first table in the document; instead you get all of them, in order. 16:15:15 pkhuong: this is not as much "can i get it" but more in the form "what is the easiest way for *me* to get any arbitrary matching form from the tree" 16:15:49 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit ["Be back later"] 16:15:50 If you want a pattern matcher, the complexity will entirely depend on the pattern language you want to implement (or just use xpath). After that, you can find-recursively-if. 16:16:31 pkhuong: thanks for the find-recursively-if 16:16:51 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.135.206] has joined #lisp 16:17:19 Does working with XML make one unable to read documentation? 16:17:54 working with xml makes me lose all hope :( 16:18:17 Quick emacs question: How can I view the past few things I've killed? 16:19:24 nyef: C-h v kill-ring 16:19:25 ask the police 16:19:39 Ah, many thanks. 16:19:51 Traveler4 [n=traveler@117.193.195.123] has joined #lisp 16:20:06 is there one good gui-toolkit? 16:20:13 Traveler4: nope, 10. 16:20:34 Traveler4: the main ones seem to be LTK, CommonQt, and McCLIM 16:20:39 pick your poison 16:21:09 -!- beach``` is now known as beach 16:21:22 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:21:29 lichtblau: qt 4.5.1, kdebindings compiled by me (unchanged from last try), demo failed soon after showing window 16:21:35 Good evening. 16:21:49 hi beach 16:21:53 lichtblau: how's commonqr for win32 going? 16:22:35 rsynnott: works fine with SBCL and "reasonably fine" with CCL, Allegro 16:22:38 cool 16:22:43 still doing the socket thing? 16:22:56 no, the socket thing was just for debugging. 16:23:57 ajh, nice 16:24:03 "reasonably fine" meaning very occasional crashes with CCL, and the Allegro problem only went away when I changed the code to do fewer calls than it used to do, so the actual bug is probably still there. But as long as I can't reproduce crashes in _real_ code, I won't go to extremes trying to debug it. 16:26:49 I probably should put up known-good binary installers with Lisp+Qt+Smoke+CommonQt for common platforms. Would be more interesting if I had a useful example like a Lisp listener that people would actually want to work with though. 16:27:26 perhaps a script to regenerate from source would be better. 16:27:49 *lichtblau* will definitely not provide a script to rebuild from source on windows 16:28:05 most of us only care about unix. :) 16:30:06 the nice thing about Qt is that while you care about unix, your app is almost ported to windows anyways. :) 16:30:31 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslfb125.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:30:32 sellout [n=greg@96.227.247.162] has joined #lisp 16:30:54 foom: not so much with kde-bindings, where the perl script that parses headers and generates the smoke code only works on linux 16:32:33 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 16:32:39 HG` [n=wells@xdslfb125.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:32:41 lichtblau: well, stick to qt then? 16:33:05 stick to C++ rather than Lisp you mean? 16:33:18 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslfb125.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:33:39 oh, you mean smoke doesn't work on windows? 16:33:56 Stick to C++ AND develop for windows. Sounds double-plus unfun. 16:34:30 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-ede270d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:34:44 Doing Windows development with Qt is extreme fun. 16:34:55 Because you can do it on Linux ;) 16:35:01 yes, smoke *works* on windows with sufficient manual twiddling, but its *build* process doesn't fully work on windows. I have a dll that works, but I'll just check it in and spare people from having to do that again. 16:35:47 Besides, it'll probably make sense to even check in commonqt's wrapper dll to spare people from having to install mingw in addition to a lisp. 16:35:59 mikezor [n=mikael@c-ede270d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:36:59 p_l: was the "last try" also with Qt 4.5.1? 16:38:18 lichtblau: that's a good idea 16:38:36 *rsynnott* wants windows support purely for distribution purposes; I would not like to be developing on it 16:39:00 -!- gigamonkey` [n=user@adsl-99-24-218-217.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:39:18 semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 16:41:34 Davse_Ba1se [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 16:42:42 -!- sellout [n=greg@96.227.247.162] has quit [] 16:43:07 Davse_Ba2se [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 16:46:04 -!- Traveler4 [n=traveler@117.193.195.123] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:46:51 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-27-178.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:48:44 HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 16:49:10 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-27-178.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:49:37 -!- Davse_Ba2se [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:51:45 tombom [i=tombom@86.9.224.192] has joined #lisp 16:53:17 what is the best way to implement matrix in cl 16:53:38 (make-array '(5 5)) 16:54:05 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:54:30 (the easiest way) 16:54:52 I've never used multidimensional arrays in cl - is't much different from C 16:55:05 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:55:28 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087FB50.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:42 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:35 No, it's not different. CL has row-major order multidimensional arrays, just like C. (And unlike Fortran, which has column-major order. And unlike Java, which doesn't have multidimensional arrays at all.) 16:57:02 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 16:57:12 does java have vectors of vectors? 16:57:23 yes 16:58:01 no multidimensional arrays in Java??? 16:58:02 (called arrays rather than vectors, obviously) 16:58:11 there must be some misunderstanding 16:58:13 <_death> huh, C doesn't have multidimensional arrays 16:58:16 -!- Davse_Ba1se [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:58:52 sure C and Java do have multidimensional arrays 16:59:02 on the other hand Perl does not have them 16:59:49 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 17:00:09 in C you just write int array[5][5]; 17:00:48 first hits on google on "java multidimensional array" says it hasn't m-d arrays, but arrays-of-arrays 17:00:50 in Java it was something like int [][] array = new Array[](); although I don't remember exactly 17:00:52 google can't lie 17:01:16 that is pointles gibberish 17:01:17 <_death> catnap: that's not a multidimensional array, that's an array of arrays 17:01:34 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 17:01:37 the difference is just play on words 17:01:43 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:01:49 it's pretty different in CL 17:02:01 <_death> how do you get the dimensions of your so-called multidimensional array then? 17:02:09 DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-147-121-66.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:13 catnap: no it isn't 17:02:26 one is 1 object with data, the other is an object with N objects inside it that have data 17:02:27 An array of arrays is an array containing references to arrays 17:02:34 dysinger [n=tim@173.8.205.234] has joined #lisp 17:02:49 it does the same thung 17:03:22 but the memory usages are different 17:03:40 overheads and such 17:04:10 hmm, does babel work on an sbcl that doesn't have sb-unicode? 17:04:24 attila_lendvai: no 17:04:47 also, presumably reading from, say, 4,4 requires two memory reads in the array of arrays but one in the multidimensional 17:04:55 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.235.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:05:05 also the array of arrays becomes horrifically messy when you progress beyond two dimensions 17:05:36 fe[nl]ix: thanks 17:06:02 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 17:06:04 and arrays of arrays aren't necessarily "rectangular" (can be an advantage at times, but also an inefficency) 17:06:16 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:32 attila_lendvai: I think that only unibyte codecs will work in that case 17:06:41 not very useful 17:06:42 I think about it this way 17:06:52 my neighbours dog knows more tricks than my dog 17:07:01 it doesn't mean that my dog is not dog at all 17:07:13 the same with multidimensional arrays of C and Java 17:07:29 catnap: they are different things which can sort of look the same under certain circumstances 17:07:38 then you'll say that lists are the same as arrays? 17:07:45 catnap: reasoning by analogy is not a good thing 17:07:55 (of course, if you want a multidimensional array in java you can always emulate it on a single-dimensional one) 17:08:04 if you look at it like that c and java higher arrays are both more similar to each other than to lisp 17:08:24 Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:49 there's no point in saying that Java multidimensional arrays are not multidimensional arrays 17:09:04 if I need to say arrays of arrays every time, the text becomes cluttered 17:09:32 just saying that the lisp m-d array is a different animal than arrays of arrays 17:09:32 and if some one forces me to say arrays of arrays I will still call them multidimensional atleast in my head 17:09:33 <_death> catnap: you seem insistent on preserving your own terminology, and as a defense mechanism complain that what we speak of is merely verbal 17:09:35 you may make a disclaimer at the beginning 17:09:47 *lichtblau* was hoping that it was clear in the specific context where he said it; was obviously not clear enough 17:09:53 catnap: there's lots of point. C has both arrays-of-arrays and multidimensional arrays, and it's important to know the difference 17:10:09 even though they try to confuse you by making the syntax the same for both. :) 17:10:16 dcrawford: I do appreciate that Lisp arrays are versatile 17:11:10 and it's sad that java doesn't have the operatorFOO capability 17:12:08 -!- ejs [n=eugen@117-144-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:13:22 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-fd5ac85bcd030ffd] has joined #lisp 17:14:04 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181140099.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:14:14 catnap: In a truly multidimensional array you cannot reference a[i], where with "a[i]" I mean the reference-by-index operator 17:14:34 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-251-220.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:50 I find Java lacking in many respects 17:15:01 it's too difficult to return multiple values 17:15:05 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:15:09 the compiler is also paranoid 17:15:15 Pandala [n=Pandala@LPuteaux-156-16-28-243.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:15:17 tcr unless you do matlab like a[3,:] stuff 17:15:28 sellout [n=greg@96.227.247.162] has joined #lisp 17:15:48 dcrawford: hence my apposition 17:15:50 I used to love Java, but now I'm disillusioned 17:16:13 p_l: let me know if you have more information on the Qt crash 17:16:14 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #lisp 17:16:15 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:17:16 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["reboot"] 17:21:28 nikodemus pasted "more dx winnage" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80304 17:22:45 -!- Pandala [n=Pandala@LPuteaux-156-16-28-243.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:22:57 nikodemus: Congratulations. 17:23:50 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 17:24:29 I don't suppose anyone has come any closer to a solution for the latin9/x86-64 thing beyond the obvious band-aid, have they? 17:24:50 -!- sellout [n=greg@96.227.247.162] has quit [] 17:24:56 nyef: l-t-v sounds good enough to me ;) 17:25:04 can't compiler decide on its own in some cases when to stack allocate? 17:25:39 stassats: in come cases it could, yes. 17:25:45 stassats: it could in some cases, but it's hard to tell in many cases where it's actually desirable. 17:25:47 only on a couple not that interesting cases, unless you want to perform whole program analyses. 17:25:55 pkhuong: Umm... What? 17:25:58 (or declare a function as pure) 17:26:19 nyef: another band-aid (: 17:26:32 I doubt it'd help here. 17:26:51 Cons a specialised vector at load time? 17:27:04 That's what's -supposed- to happen. 17:27:19 foom: how? 17:27:30 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.4.137] has joined #lisp 17:27:59 -!- _death [n=death@bzq-84-110-248-38.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:28:10 nyef: i haven't spent any cycles on that yet 17:28:11 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.4.137] has left #lisp 17:28:18 Specifically, MAKE-ARRAY is being called by the closure-initialization code which is in the toplevel component, thus using l-t-v would have the same problem. 17:28:20 stassats: I didn't mean that's something you should do, only that it would help. 17:28:35 Ah, I thought the problem was that the XC didn't/couln't dump the vector correctly. 17:28:36 stassats: if with a sufficiently able compiler you did that and it looked at it 17:28:58 foom: oh, i thought sbcl already has such declaration 17:29:06 The band-aids I can think of involve explicitly upgrading the array type so that MAKE-ARRAY will get an exact match for a specialized type and thus do the right thing. 17:29:39 Oh, I wish it were the XC. 17:29:51 I'd be more able to fix that. 17:30:43 how important is hash table performance when looking for absent keys? 17:31:28 i'm sure there are cases where it's reasonably important 17:31:29 I'd imagine that it strongly depends on the application. Some programs may never look for absent keys, some may look for them most of the time. 17:32:10 A common hash-table trick is duplicate item detection, after all. 17:32:17 oh, look -- a regression in compiler-1.impure.cload 17:32:35 i bet that's mine, but how come i didn't notice it before? 17:32:38 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:35:06 -!- addled [n=alawson@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:35:43 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-178.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:37:45 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:21 sellout [n=greg@96.227.247.162] has joined #lisp 17:44:45 HG` [n=wells@xdslfq139.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:45:58 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:47:20 -!- dysinger [n=tim@173.8.205.234] has quit [] 17:47:40 ejs [n=eugen@81-50-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:29 -!- optikalmouse [n=user@bas1-toronto10-1279559280.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:51:39 optikalmouse [n=user@bas1-toronto10-1279559280.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:52:52 -!- sellout [n=greg@96.227.247.162] has quit [] 17:53:03 can I use SBCL's FDSTREAM as a regular stream? I'm having trouble tossing it to cxml for parsing :S 17:53:40 the error is: # is not a binary input stream. 17:54:43 optikalmouse: The default :element-type is 'character, and it sounds like cxml would like it to be '(unsigned-byte 8) or something along those lines. 17:55:14 Unless I'm misreading the error message. 17:56:30 hm 17:56:40 hm indeed. 17:56:43 I'm not sure how I can fix that, trivial-http doesn't seem to have an option for that :S 17:56:59 why don't you use drakma?" 17:57:06 test 17:57:07 trivial-http was never meant for serious use, it was meant as a starting point for hacking something up. 17:57:12 tcr: test failed. 17:58:08 I'm just interacting with an XML website api, a few POST and GET requests and that's it so I thought drakma would be overkill 17:58:42 optikalmouse: doesn't seem like an overkill to me 17:59:26 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:01:15 adeht: true enough, just downloaded drakma, I'll give it a go 18:01:56 Jasko3 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 18:03:32 dysinger [n=tim@67.102.173.168] has joined #lisp 18:03:56 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:05:23 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:07:31 optikalmouse: drakma can return a bivalent stream, so you can use both character and byte operators on it 18:08:51 _3b: Are you here? 18:08:59 <_3b> yes 18:10:18 _3b: I rewrote some part of the font-lock-magic. Hopefully it's less fragile now. 18:10:47 tcr: any thoughts on the *print-circle* default for printing the condition? 18:11:57 nikodemus: I'll skim through the mailing list later 18:14:10 try this in the repl: (error "~a" "duh") -- with default settings you get 18:14:11 #1=#1# 18:14:11 [Condition of type SIMPLE-ERROR] 18:15:26 <_3b> tcr: is it checked in? current CVS still doesn't like the unbalanced parens version of that test 18:16:02 i haven't been able to make SBCL on it's own do anything so bogus -- but if it turns out to be a printer bug, i'll deal with it if someone cooks up a test-case that doesn't depend on slime 18:16:20 -!- ignas [n=ignas@78.59.166.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:16:23 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.135.206] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:16:49 _3b: No not yet 18:18:23 <_3b> nikodemus: looks ok here (duh instead of #1=#1#) 18:18:28 _3b: Checked in now, probably takes a few minutes to propagate to you 18:18:58 nikodemus: what _3b says 18:19:04 bizarre 18:19:22 I'm on .28.43 18:19:28 <_3b> same 18:19:41 *nikodemus* moves .sbclrc and .swank.lisp out of the way 18:20:21 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@75-149-33-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:20:30 ok. i'm made of fail 18:20:40 *shame on me* 18:21:06 <_3b> any suggestions for debugging sb-sprof? 18:21:16 so what was it? 18:22:10 oh wait, i need a clean slime as well 18:22:14 it's strange to say that the "size of a vector or a string", isn't it? it's more about their length, isn't it? 18:23:04 <_3b> using size for length doesn't seem unreasonable if elements are all the same size 18:23:37 it's babel's string-size-in-octets and vector-size-in-chars 18:24:37 <_3b> i'd pick size over length for the first one, not sure i have a preference for the second though 18:25:21 ok, i'll just leave it as is then... thanks! 18:28:24 <_3b> is ffi to sleep() likely to break sb-sprof? 18:29:21 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslfq139.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:30:50 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:31:19 <_3b> break it differently from other ffi that is 18:31:43 wow, i'm baffled 18:31:45 (push '(*print-length* . nil) *sldb-printer-bindings*) 18:31:47 does it 18:32:38 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:51 it is totally non-obvious to my why that should mess with *print-circle* 18:33:00 s/my/me/ 18:34:16 the sldb printer is heavily customized 18:35:13 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:37:21 <_3b> tcr: harder to break now i think, or at least harder to isolate whatever breaks it 18:37:29 Zenton` [n=user@80.29.234.11] has joined #lisp 18:37:34 Does it break for you? 18:37:48 <_3b> yeah, broken it a few times 18:38:08 I moved the font-lock-magic in a contrib now. It's enabled by slime-fancy, if you do not use slime-fancy but want it, use the slime-fontifying-fu contrib 18:38:52 *_3b* would be tempted to just say ignore that error and leave it as it is :p 18:39:08 _3b: Which error is it? cl-assertion ? 18:39:18 <_3b> yeah, same assert 18:39:31 it's during searching for suppressed forms? 18:39:57 (that error actually means that the current font-lock-region was not extended enough to include all of the form following a reader conditional 18:40:03 <_3b> Caught error during fontification while searching for forms that are suppressed by reader-conditionals. 18:40:17 Can you show me your file? 18:40:33 <_3b> still variations on that second test case 18:40:35 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:41:22 Really? That was my test case all day long 18:41:29 What emacs version? 18:41:46 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp388.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 18:41:52 <_3b> 22.2.1 18:42:03 <_3b> harder to isolate what to type to break it though 18:42:34 <_3b> ah, maybe it depends on mode 18:43:18 *sigh* 18:43:38 <_3b> if i load a file with unbalanced parens, which confuses paredit and leaves my with just (Lisp) in mode-line, i think that is when it is breakable 18:44:09 I'm sorry I couldn't follow you, "my with"? 18:44:21 It looks like people should start using Climacs instead. 18:44:21 <_3b> sorry, 'leaves me with' 18:44:54 <_3b> beach: probably, but then breaking sbcl would be even more annoying :) 18:45:02 ? 18:45:03 <_3b> (climacs doesn't connect to remote lisps yet, right?) 18:45:17 The sophisticated incremental LALR parser of Climacs makes it superior to what Emacs can currently do. 18:45:30 _3b: True. 18:45:45 Yes I'd love that. In fact, if I was to rewrite Slime, I'd use that, but would still use Emacs as the gui frontend :P 18:46:19 we all have hard choices to make. 18:46:47 slime with multiple front-ends? 18:47:05 Some of us just happen to systematically make the wrong ones. 18:48:31 stassats: I'd control Emacs from Common Lisp rather than the other way around 18:49:35 tcr: So then the natural question would be: Why would you control Emacs that way, rather than Climacs? 18:49:39 <_3b> tcr: ok, got a new test case that works with the buffer in slime mode 18:49:42 then it'd be easier to reuse parts for other editors too 18:49:56 I once set things up so that I started SBCL with a script, and that script started emacs for me. 18:50:09 So I had a superior lisp and an inferior emacs. 18:50:52 _3b: Nice! 18:51:27 beach: To avoid mcclim, obviously. 18:52:17 stassats: So I take your agument to be roughly "there are inferior editors; I should make sure to support those, even though this means I suggest an inferior environment to my users; in fact I should adapt to that inferior environment for that reason."? 18:53:27 What's the inferior editor, climacs or emacs? 18:54:36 emacs. 18:54:46 _3b pasted "new slime test case" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80307 18:55:50 <_3b> probably can be reduced from there, typing a space between the or and nil in the (or nil) triggers it 18:55:55 beach: i like choice, with current slime you haven't much choice 18:56:47 _3b: Thanks 18:57:02 stassats: are you from the US? 18:57:24 *_3b* goes back to breaking sbcl instead of slime :p 18:57:41 stassats: I am asking because liking choice is something that associate with Americans. 18:58:39 beach: no, i'm not 18:58:55 jao [n=jao@122.Red-83-33-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:28 stassats: I think I knew that. Where do you live? 18:59:40 Russia 19:00:05 jmbr_ [n=jmbr@22.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:00:18 stassats: In France, most pople would go for the choice of the Chef, rather than their (most likely rediculous and mismatched) personally chosen preferences. 19:00:31 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.135.206] has joined #lisp 19:00:45 stassats: Oh, that's probably similar in this respect these days. 19:01:23 i also don't like much generalizations 19:01:31 stassats: But I can see how in a young democracy, this would be preferred. 19:01:47 stassats: I get the point. Thanks. 19:03:02 each time i try to apply some general concept to particular people it ends up to be wrong 19:03:26 I'm all for dumping emacs in favor of Climacs, and I'm from Russia as well. 19:03:45 beach: USA is an older democracy than France. 19:04:33 I even tried it a couple of times. 19:06:25 i'd like to use climacs too, once it will be usable, i know that it's my hand too to make it more usable, but i've not sufficent motivation, provided that gnu emacs is satisfactory to me 19:06:30 "worse is better" 19:07:03 the usual local minimum escape problem 19:07:12 pjb: Somewhat, yes, in fact. Thanks for pointing this out. 19:07:14 Same for me, actually. 19:07:34 erm, the usual local maximum escape problem 19:07:43 Over the past month or so I've started to appreciate gnu emacs a bit more than I already did. 19:07:58 nyef: because of what? 19:08:23 Started using diredit on occasion. 19:08:55 Started using paredit on occasion. 19:09:17 is there something like paredit for climacs? 19:09:28 Started looking into more serious customization, such as the form stuff. 19:09:50 *drewc* has been forcing a mcclim-based development environment on himself 19:10:10 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@6.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:10:51 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-51-88.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 19:11:09 I wrote a Paredit Open Delimiter command once! But then to make stuff work better I had to redesign the motion routines in Climacs, and although I finished that, other life intervened. 19:11:16 drewc: yes, there is structedit. 19:11:26 I am thinking that it may be time for me to reevaluate (not) using McCLIM. 19:11:28 <_3b> hmm, does this only break when i use cffi? 19:12:04 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:12:33 _3b: What's breaking now? 19:12:38 <_3b> sb-sprof 19:12:43 Ah, right. 19:13:05 pjb: Are you going to be in Milan? 19:13:17 <_3b> unfortunately not consistently enough to bisect yet though :/ 19:14:39 pjb: I might have asked this question before, but my memory is not so good these days. 19:15:18 nyef: i take a good look at climacs once in a while... this time i've decided i should stick it out. 19:15:40 nyef: and i just adore the mcclim listener, always have. 19:15:54 Yes, the listener was nice. 19:16:19 <_3b> or is just loading cffi enough, even if i don't use it in the test 19:16:24 I once had a setup, emacs and slime on the one side, mcclim and the listener on the other. 19:17:05 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:17:23 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 19:17:30 And most of the development of pretzil was done with that listener. It was only after the VM basically worked that I built the "real" UI. 19:18:11 *beach* agrees with drewc about the listener. 19:18:36 nikodemus: your suggestions on cltl3-devel are right on the money. We're usually having real-time chat about it in #tech.coop if you'd like to join in. 19:19:46 nyef: that's pretty much me right now. emacs+slime+erc on one virtual desktop, Listener + Climacs + beirc on the other. 19:20:04 No, no... same lisp image. 19:20:35 Climacs was -really- rough at that point, if it worked at all. 19:20:36 yes, in the same image 19:20:51 Ah. 19:21:10 <_3b> ok, must have been just luck the first time it worked without cffi, now if i could get it to break outside emacs :/ 19:21:55 climacs is quite usable now, i'm actually quite optimistic at this point. 19:23:37 Yes, Climacs is within epsilon of replacing Emacs for Lisp development. 19:24:28 And it is already better in some respects, like the incmremental parser for indentation and such. 19:27:47 how large is epsilon? (epsilon as in "error"?) 19:28:14 what is / where are docs for McClim listener? 19:29:22 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:57 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:32:09 tic: a few developer-weeks 19:32:17 mcclim/Apps/Listener/README 19:32:31 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:33:05 http://ckuik.com/Ol'_Man_River 19:33:05 *beach* tells eveyone goodnight! 19:33:48 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:49 Got this obsession with this song, sorry if this off topic inclusion distracts you 19:34:56 _3b: ok that's a very pathological case because # has the same syntax type as quote 19:35:25 so the #### are not recognized as a sexp on their own 19:36:34 I just really like Paul Roberson's voice 19:36:50 jthing: Thanks for letting us know. 19:36:56 *jthing* will shut up now 19:38:43 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-30-90.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:10 -!- catnap [n=tommi@new7.kyla.fi] has quit ["leaving"] 19:40:03 <_3b> wonder what i do that makes slime stop starting up properly 19:40:32 what do you get? 19:40:56 <_3b> "Connection closed." in the minibuffer if i try to type naything in the new repl 19:41:14 *slime-events*? 19:41:18 *inferior-lisp-buffeR*? 19:41:32 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181140099.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:41:42 <_3b> both look normal 19:42:22 <_3b> i suspect it is still sort of connected to the dead sbcl 19:43:30 That sounds wrong 19:44:05 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181140099.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:44:42 _3b: How does it relate to the dead sbcl? 19:45:41 <_3b> jthing: sbcl dies, then slime stops working 19:45:47 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:46:12 _3b: that would be SWANK 19:46:14 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181140099.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 19:46:21 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:46:30 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:40 <_3b> jthing: no slime, swank lives in the dead sbcl, so if i'm not connected to it anymore it shouldn't matter 19:47:10 deadlock 19:47:20 in swank 19:47:50 here you go again 19:47:55 <_3b> if slime didn't disconnect when i told it to, the problem is slime, regarless of what swank is doing 19:48:12 sigh 19:49:25 perhaps stassats` can help you.. 19:49:26 -!- ejs [n=eugen@81-50-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:49:56 if i can't help i'm quite and don't distract with stupid questions 19:49:59 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:50:27 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:50:30 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Client Quit] 19:50:35 that's not a logical sentence stassats` 19:50:53 quiet 19:51:09 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:51:17 <_3b> jthing: in case it wasn't clear, the problem is with a new sbcl and new connection, not the one that died 19:51:48 _3b: ohh .. i've had similar problems! 19:52:04 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:52:23 let me see if i can trigger it again... 19:53:49 beach: interesting. I've always complained that most restaurants have too much on the menu, and they ought to know better than me what's worth ordering. 19:54:27 heh.. the thing with beach's analogy is that the people may let the Chef make the decisions with regards to the meal's preparation, but they are the ones to judge whether the meal was any good, and to choose whether to eat in that restaurant again or not 19:54:28 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:55:50 drewc: any progess? 19:55:54 apart from that I disliked the air of it, as I found it closely related to the Platonic principle of the rule of the wise ;) 19:56:06 progress 19:56:54 jthing: well, compiling a new SBCL and updating slime is my first step, so yes, progress is being made. 19:57:18 sound a bit extreme 19:57:24 sounds 19:58:47 (Not that I don't do it all the time.) 19:59:10 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:59:22 jthing: i can't see much point in tracking down bugs in old versions of the software that might be fixed. 19:59:45 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:00:12 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 20:00:23 quite 20:00:37 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-107.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 20:00:53 a clbuild user 20:01:03 _3b: I don't what to do about it. I could ignore the assertion error, but then I'd perhaps miss bug reports showing more important cases to be fixed 20:01:58 <_3b> i'd probably ignore the #### case unless someone sees that in real code 20:02:29 <_3b> though breaking things when not in slime mode might be worth fixing 20:02:56 <_3b> (assuming that wasn't just seomthing i messed up in my mode hooks) 20:03:00 exactly four bangs? 20:03:20 stassats`: http://paste.lisp.org/display/80307 20:03:24 i see some in Closure 20:03:47 (inside a string) 20:04:32 tcr: Better to let null be nil 20:04:50 for peace of mind 20:05:21 _3b: Like= 20:05:36 Fuad [n=Fuad@93.184.226.54] has joined #lisp 20:05:41 dwave [n=ask@084202072214.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 20:07:19 that 1 bit really threw me off ;) 20:08:01 until I realized what you were doing.. 20:08:07 stassats: these aren't bangs, but hashes ;) 20:09:29 -!- Fuad [n=Fuad@93.184.226.54] has left #lisp 20:10:16 -!- dysinger [n=tim@67.102.173.168] has quit [] 20:11:24 adeht: i felt something is wrong! 20:11:48 _3b: Anyway, I found another issue, and you should update again. 20:12:03 <_3b> jthing: 'what i was doing' as in typing randomly until it broke? 20:12:23 inforichland [n=inforich@24-236-216-164.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:07 <_3b> tcr: ok 20:14:06 I'm done for today. 20:14:09 *_3b* wonders if sb-sprof is interacting poorly with GC somehow 20:14:16 which particular slime module or option displays the function/arguments in the minibuffer? i'm setting up slime on another machine, but i seem to only have limited functionality 20:14:44 ramus`: Use (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) in your .emacs 20:14:45 -!- Jasko3 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:14:55 (make sure that the slime/contrib/ directory is on your load-path, too) 20:15:04 <_3b> tcr: thanks for working on the reader conditional highlighting btw, has been mildly annoying for a while :) 20:15:11 those are already contained in .emacs 20:15:12 tcr: slime-setup will set it 20:15:16 which is bazzling 20:15:22 whoops, baffling 20:15:23 the load path? oh ok 20:15:29 yep 20:15:29 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:50 ramus`: Could you paste your .emacs to paste.lisp.org/new/lisp, please? 20:15:59 (your slime related settings at least) 20:16:41 it's pretty much the default configuration from clbuild 20:16:41 -!- dwave [n=ask@084202072214.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 20:16:44 do you still want to see it? 20:17:16 ramus`: true slime steup is mostly automated 20:17:24 setup 20:17:25 <_3b> doesn't the clbuild config mess with that feature? 20:17:51 borsman [n=quassel@76.177.217.216] has joined #lisp 20:18:36 ramus`: I don't know about clbuild, but yeah sure show it 20:18:45 ramus`: if you have nothing else to show 20:19:09 check out clbuild 20:19:10 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 20:19:38 ramus` pasted "clbuild .emacs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80311 20:20:04 though a deranged concept it seems to work rather well in Lisp 20:20:07 ramus`: (setq slime-use-autodoc-mode nil) 20:20:10 ;) 20:20:14 ramus`: Why do you have that in there? 20:20:32 well, that's silly 20:20:39 it was part of clbuild's slime-configuration output 20:20:46 *_3b* wondered why clbuild suggested that too 20:20:47 in any case, thanks 20:21:10 'afternoon all 20:21:17 Arglist display should still work; it's displayed each time you press SPC 20:21:26 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:38 it's just display of the raw arglist, no bells and whistles though 20:21:42 evening 20:21:46 yeah, i considered that 'limited' 20:22:17 infornicland: sounds obsceene 20:22:32 ramus`: Ah right you did say that 20:22:45 jthing: it's an old name :P 20:22:56 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:23:04 you might want to change yout call sign 20:23:34 seriously 20:23:43 it's info rich land 20:23:56 as in, a land rich in info. 20:24:14 so it is and the <> bit 20:24:22 inforichland: Welcome to #Lisp. Notice that jthing is sometimes indistinguishable from a markov chain. 20:24:53 tcr: ah, thanks for the tip 20:25:01 tcr: thanks for that complent 20:25:04 tcr: LMAO 20:26:08 True I am somewhat erratic 20:26:09 well I feel like I'm ready to get my hands dirty with cl ; can anybody recommend any projects that would be good for an intermediate cl guy ? 20:26:33 inforichland: Read through a book already? 20:26:40 PAIP and On Lisp 20:26:44 What subjects are of interest to you? 20:26:45 nop, but do the Axiom thing 20:27:02 and PCL 20:27:18 inforichland: Very nice. Notice that Graham's style is sometimes, or perhaps often, not very idiomatic. 20:27:35 tcr: I've somewhat picked up on that, yeah 20:27:38 Seriously Axiom needs help, and it is a projevt that deserves support 20:27:55 project 20:28:23 inforichland: Now what subjects are of interest to you? 20:29:23 tcr: well, AI is, natural language, music 20:29:34 I'm a firmware engineer by day 20:30:26 i've been lurking around the lisp community for a while 20:30:27 inforichland: Then PLEASE check out axiom! 20:30:49 again this axiom spam 20:31:08 inforichland: There's Common Lisp Music which is music synthesis software written in Lisp http://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/clm/ 20:31:16 inforichland: I do not have experience with it, though 20:31:24 ok 20:31:27 i'll check it out 20:31:42 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o drewc 20:31:45 inforichland: There's also G-Sharp, a score editor: http://common-lisp.net/project/gsharp/ 20:31:47 inforichland: You sound like someone sufficiently knowleable to make a difference 20:32:07 jthing: the suggestion has been noted. Please stop making noise. 20:32:11 clm has bindings for a number of languages, hasn't it? 20:32:26 (or syntaxes, or whatever the proper way to put it is) 20:32:34 drewc: sorry 20:33:02 inforichland: you may be interested in the lispos project too (it will probably never get any sufficient development, but keeping your eyes open doesn't hurt) 20:33:28 inforichland: movitz is also something that might interest you as a firmware guy 20:33:30 writing an AI which will develop lispos? 20:33:34 minion: movitz? 20:33:35 movitz: Movitz is a Common Lisp implementation that targets the x86 PC architecture "on-the-metal". http://www.cliki.net/movitz 20:33:47 inforichland: The G-Sharp people hang around here regularly and would welcome participation. Working on it would probably mean that you become experienced with advanced CLOSery 20:34:28 cool stuff everyone 20:34:31 inforichland: what stassats` said! just be sure that it grasps the concept of music, as to interconnect all your interests 20:34:56 haha 20:34:57 good idea 20:35:21 have gsharp run on movitz 20:35:24 it will whistle and have smoke breaks? 20:36:01 stassats`: whilst writing the firmware drivers you need for your job 20:37:48 inforichland: Also make sure to become somewhat proficient with your Lisp environment of choice. 20:38:29 tcr: indeed, thanks 20:38:36 and currently you can be really proficient only with Slime 20:38:37 right now I run sbcl using slime 20:38:37 p0a [n=user@athedsl-390227.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:38:44 Hello how can I make format use the previous arguments value again 20:38:52 ~:* 20:38:57 that was offhand 20:39:00 thanks, I should save this somewhere 20:39:08 until it becomes offhand to me too ;-) 20:39:23 i'm not really sure, let me check 20:39:46 yep, (format t "~a ~:*~a" 10) works 20:41:04 i feell very strongly about this AXIOM is a ingenious program 20:41:06 minion: clqr? 20:41:07 clqr: The Common Lisp Quick Reference is a booklet with short descriptions of the symbols defined in the ANSI standard: http://clqr.berlios.de/ 20:41:10 argh 20:41:44 have it 20:42:09 Bernt Burgermaister right 20:42:40 Burgemaister 20:42:57 Burgemeister 20:43:01 sigh 20:43:06 GurpMan [n=geezsain@sea-gw.practicepartner.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:16 Anyone from Seattle here? 20:43:19 p0a: check this out, it should help memorizing such things 20:43:33 Living that is 20:44:04 -!- semyon421 [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:44:19 *stassats`* thinks to print it, it should look nice on paper 20:45:10 stassats`: Bern't Burgemiiser 'the Common Lisp quick refence' 20:45:25 reference 20:45:41 what? 20:45:52 stassats`: It is nicer in paper 20:46:11 that's what i said 20:46:50 ok it IS nicer in paper 20:47:03 Clearer now 20:47:20 i thought i would believe you? 20:47:30 s/^i/you/ 20:47:36 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:41 whatever 20:48:28 Anyhow I use it all the time, it's a winner 20:49:40 my printer is the loser 20:52:18 djdouuma [n=flicker@rrcs-24-43-85-58.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:47 -!- optikalmouse [n=user@bas1-toronto10-1279559280.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:54:11 stassats`: You need the adobe pdf program 20:54:46 the unix tools just aren't up to it 20:56:11 benny99 [n=benny@p5486DD35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:14 anyone? is FFI for sbcl working on OS X? i can't get it to load a valid .dylib 20:56:53 jthing: why, you can even get the latex source and print directly from dvi 20:57:08 to general, be more spesific 20:57:10 perhaps pdftk can split it? 20:57:37 antoszka: yes 20:58:01 lispm [n=joswig@e177127094.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:15 antoszka: that a problem for you? 20:58:46 stassats`: which? 20:58:50 clqr, ah 20:59:17 antoszka: I usually print it to PDF these days though. 20:59:57 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:00:11 jthing: not at all. I printed the thing out without problems. 21:00:30 thanks for pointing that clqr thing out, looks excellent 21:00:36 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:47 (can't find a stapler long enough though, to staple it through the middle) 21:00:57 *stassats`* finally fixed cups 21:01:06 dvi is usually pretty problem fee 21:01:29 each time, once in a half a year, i decide to print something goes wrong 21:02:31 stassats`: This would be the 'shut up'bit 21:03:12 You sentence doesn't make any sence. 21:04:28 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-155-141.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:04:40 next time, i'll learn from you how to make more sense 21:05:03 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-155-141.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 21:05:04 whatever 21:05:27 sigh 21:06:43 If you want to lead by axample you have to do better than that! And that's the truth.. 21:07:10 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [] 21:08:34 UncommonLisper [n=ubuntu@c-24-127-96-22.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:54 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079167.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:40 does anyone know if its possible to get anti-aliased fonts, in mcclim, under mac os x? 21:11:22 load mcclim-truetype / mcclim-freetype 21:11:55 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 21:12:43 Could anyone tell me how the GPL affects my code because I use clisp? I already GPL most of my code ,but I want to if clisp forces me to use GPL. 21:12:55 -!- peddie [n=matthew@PEDDIE.MIT.EDU] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:13:10 UncommonLisper: as long as you don't use any clisp-specific features, you're ok. 21:13:23 http://clisp.cons.org/impnotes/faq.html#faq-licensing 21:13:40 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:14:26 stassats`: wow, thanks a ton. I got my chicken bones out and everything ;-) 21:14:44 Thanks drewc and stassats 21:15:09 -!- UncommonLisper [n=ubuntu@c-24-127-96-22.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:15:23 UncommonLisper: No 21:15:52 UncommonLisper: It's basically BSD 21:16:10 first, he's gone, second, you are wrongg 21:16:22 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:16:22 jthing: that's not at all true, please stop giving useless information. 21:16:48 the PLEASE corect me 21:16:56 arh 21:17:15 oh shite 21:17:29 that was one ill-adviced git reset --hard 21:19:11 is there anyway to make 21:19:25 woops, wrong window. appologies. 21:19:53 Ok let's rephrase that. Drewc will you please inform a ignorant .. like myseft how GPL works. 21:19:54 -!- inforichland [n=inforich@24-236-216-164.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:20:58 obviously, not like BSDL 21:21:12 jthing: that's not on topic for #lisp, and there is plenty of information available online. 21:21:34 damndamndamn 21:21:39 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 21:21:51 did i really not make any commits in that tree today? 21:22:16 nikodemus: did you just lose some cool new sbcl features? 21:22:49 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 21:23:00 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Client Quit] 21:23:03 well over 8h of work on array allocation 21:23:03 cuz I am pretty sure I know how it works 21:23:09 *poof* 21:23:25 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.36] has joined #lisp 21:23:31 and drewC decription isn't even close 21:23:44 nikodemus: have you configured emacs to keep backups of the files it saves ? 21:23:47 oh, damn, my cat became interested by the printer 21:23:59 lol 21:24:07 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-390227.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 21:24:21 that saved my day several times in the past 21:24:47 laughter, or the printer? 21:25:04 -!- KalifG [n=user@mdwyer-mac.tamu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:25:10 *nikodemus* rolls up sleeves 21:25:14 in repl, double float is displayed with many decimal digits like 0.5099978486652736 21:25:24 is there a switch to make it only show the first 4 21:25:39 jthing: a) the link stassats` provided explains, in detail, how the GPL works with regards to clisp. I suggest reading it before assuming you know what it contains. 21:25:53 (format t "~,4f" pi) 21:25:56 jthing: b) you're getting on my nerves. 21:25:58 no, but you can do it with format fe[nl]ix 21:27:05 <_3b> can i check from a signal handler if a GC is currently happening (in sbcl)? 21:27:10 drewc: I will try to get off them 21:27:34 jthing: that clisp talk really is an interesting read. If only to see how painful the world is when you add lawyers to it 21:27:44 *jthing* doesn't know if he can 21:28:05 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 21:28:08 oh well, i did something to my slime 21:28:22 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:28:43 are there any climacs devs here? (or people that know something about it) 21:28:54 stassats`: I mean for all double floats 21:29:10 madnificent: How exactly does that relate to anything I said? 21:29:55 jthing: "please explain the GPL to me" (and the latter comment was a broadcast-message, so it wasn't soully for you) 21:30:00 leo2007: You can write a pprint-dispatch-table entry for float, and set *print-pretty* to T 21:30:12 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:30:24 leo2007: you could do some print-object magic 21:31:02 madnificent: I was WRONG and grewc was right' 21:31:03 madnificent: I know something about it. 21:31:15 drewc 21:31:33 leo2007: (defmethod print-object ((float float) stream) (format stream "~,4f" float)) 21:31:36 but be careful 21:31:45 can slime spawn a 2nd repl? under sbcl 21:31:47 I don't know how I can make it any clearer 21:32:05 mcspiff: it can 21:32:09 to the same image? 21:32:16 stassats: preferably 21:32:30 Can anyone share a link to info about SBCL FFI on OS X? 21:32:59 stassats: That's not strictly portable, fwiw. 21:33:03 stassats: right now im using a *scratch* buffer a quasi-repl, but its a little more limited 21:33:23 tcr: that's way i called it "magic" 21:33:34 I think i'll have to live with what it is and worry about this later 21:33:52 clhs set-pprint-dispatch 21:33:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_set_pp.htm 21:33:56 leo2007: Look there 21:34:01 Athas: would it be (or is it) possible to print out a string (which users can modify) but make the string the representation of an object (of which climacs is aware) as to allow the moving of objects themselves within the editor. Preferably (but not necessarily) being informed where an object has moved to within the text. 21:35:06 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-107.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 21:35:09 Athas: or in short: can I throw strings in climacs that have an object attached to them, even though they may be moved around or edited 21:35:15 -!- djdouuma [n=flicker@rrcs-24-43-85-58.west.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:35:47 Would you please print the strings without so many parethesis? 21:35:57 mcspiff: one way: swank:create-server and M-x slime-connect 21:36:12 tcr: thanks 21:36:30 madnificent: :) 21:37:00 madnificent: I'm pretty sure you can 21:37:38 hmm, something is broken here 21:37:39 madnificent: the strings would be immutable, and feel like a single character/object in the buffer. 21:38:21 On the upside, they don't have to be strings, but can be whatever you want, as long as it has a bounding retangle: http://common-lisp.net/project/climacs/images/screenshots/jpegsinclimacs.png 21:38:33 Athas: is there an idiom to make them editable? 21:38:35 My point is that you will understad the problem if all these side issues go away- 21:38:42 No, there is not. 21:39:30 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:39 Athas: is there a standard key-combination that is generally used to edit an object in a file? 21:39:57 and it looks nice, I think I'm going to look into it further :) 21:40:08 -!- galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:40:27 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 21:40:39 f.... all :) 21:40:45 madnificent: no, because such a thing doesn't make sense. How would you edit an arbitrary object? 21:40:53 Well, I assume you could just open an inspector on it. 21:40:56 But that's not very useful. 21:41:45 Athas: not like that... I meant for editable objects... It would be safe to create a binding of my own preference then :) 21:42:43 hmm, ,disconnect all connections, that was little unexpected 21:43:09 stassats: try the connections overview window you get from the slime selector (I think it's c) 21:43:13 madnificent: sure, you could just write a command that checks whether the object at the point is your special kind of object; and if so do whatever. 21:43:21 that lets you disconnect a specific connection 21:43:33 stassats: also, sounds strange. I think I recall it used to disconnect only one 21:43:35 antifuchs: C-c C-x c 21:43:41 i know about it 21:44:12 I recall someone who reported the same 21:44:18 wow, C-c C-x seems like a dangerous hotkey (: 21:44:21 Athas: thanks 21:44:25 living on the bleeding edge (: 21:44:41 stassats: Are you sure it disconnects all? 21:44:46 rotfl 21:44:47 antifuchs: i'm always asked to save some files, so it's ok 21:45:00 I don't think it does, but if you quit the previously active session, you first have to select a new default session 21:45:08 tcr: from code and actual behaviour, yes 21:45:35 madnificent: also, there is in fact a way to connect random buffer sequences to objects. Just put in two marks and store their meaning in a hash table somewhere. 21:45:53 madnificent: but it's your own responsibility to control what they mean. 21:45:57 stassats: That's not the behaviour I see when I use multiple sessions created by multiple M-x slime s 21:46:46 Athas: please elaborate on that... it seems like a nice solution :) 21:46:50 tcr: Not me either 21:46:53 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 21:46:59 it calls slime-disconnect, which does (mapc #'slime-net-close slime-net-processes) 21:47:28 But he does a Kill 21:47:50 -9 21:48:09 a OS thingie 21:48:51 dysinger [n=tim@166.129.81.115] has joined #lisp 21:49:40 Now you see that woulld cange everything 21:49:43 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:49:50 madnificent: it's not! Marks are high-level buffer indexes that move around as objects around them are added and removed, so they will keep indexing the same object, even if new objects are added before it. 21:49:50 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:50:09 madnificent: but it's the smart way to delimit buffer ranges across command executions in Climacs. 21:50:29 rvirding [n=rvirding@h59n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:09 Athas: does it keep the marks when cutting/pasting lines? Say I remove a line with two marks in it. I paste the line 4 lines downward. Are the marks moved 4 lines downward too? 21:52:56 madnificent: I honestly can't remember what happens when you do that, but I'm pretty sure the marks wouldn't tag along. 21:53:06 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 21:53:11 stassats: thanks for the slime help 21:53:19 Since the actual buffer contents will be removed, and transformed into a plain string in the kill ring. 21:53:33 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 21:54:10 anyway, that's easy to fix, but is "Lisp connection closed unexpectedly: deleted" expected? 21:54:47 Modius_ [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has joined #lisp 21:55:20 Athas: objects can be killed and pasted? 21:55:28 s/pasted/yanked 21:55:42 As far as Climacs is concerned, all buffer operations are just on object sequences. 21:56:21 So it doesn't care whether those objects are CHARACTERs or SIMPLE-OBJECTs. 21:56:38 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:56:40 then I could surround the string with a start and an end-object... those objects would define the text inside them (epic win) 21:57:30 this has been very interesting 21:57:40 Yeah, but you need tricky code to handle cases where the user only deletes one of them. 21:57:51 -!- benny99 [n=benny@p5486DD35.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:58:09 I like this example: http://localhost/apache2-default/basedrawing.png 21:58:24 useful URL :) 21:58:45 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:58:48 Athas: NSFW!!!1!! 21:58:53 where did you get url to my web-site? 21:58:57 lol 21:58:59 *mcspiff* should really turn off that porn default vhost l-( 21:59:01 ;-) 21:59:14 Oh damn. 21:59:22 I forgot my dyndns died years ago. 21:59:25 Athas: 'error' sprung to mind :P 21:59:54 http://80.161.87.214/apache2-default/basedrawing.png <- Beware, Nena! 22:00:49 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-248.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:18 It was cool that you could actually compile and run that code from Climacs. The command would be invoked whenever you input CTRL-! 22:01:22 I could never find that button, though. 22:01:33 :P 22:01:41 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@adsl-89-132-1-79.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:01:47 Athas: that's why the lisp machines had those extra buttons on the keyboard! 22:02:09 <_3b> obviously you need that $1000 keyboard with the oled display on every key :p 22:02:35 There can indeed be no other solution to this conundrum. 22:02:49 <_3b> (or a printer and some clear tape) 22:03:22 double sided tape 22:04:05 Sadly, I could never find a good use for that embedded object stuff. 22:04:13 Except for a few obscure input editor cases. 22:04:25 latex? 22:04:42 stassats: you fixed the bug I reported ;) 22:04:58 T4R1K [n=chatzill@88.253.16.144] has joined #lisp 22:05:27 leo2007: yeah, that patch should work, now we need to wait for tcr to apply it 22:06:10 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:17 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:06:56 apparantly climacs doesn't recognize my M-key 22:07:31 That is an obscure issue that someone has a very long and complicated answer (and solution) to. 22:07:36 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:07:37 But sadly, I don't remember it. 22:07:42 galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:51 stassats: only partially tho. minibuffer completion didn't show a list of available completions 22:11:58 -!- Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:12:08 lo TAB TAB and it changed to 'log' 22:12:43 -!- T4R1K [n=chatzill@88.253.16.144] has quit ["golgemi_aldim_yanima_vurdum_hasret_yoluna"] 22:13:48 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:14:06 Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.37] has joined #lisp 22:14:19 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@69.149.25.179] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:14:41 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:02 leo2007: it shows, but it's for some reason has a delay 22:15:14 s/it's/it/ 22:16:23 i guess that's because it shows some info in the minibuffer too 22:16:39 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:17:17 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-5-39.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:17:25 benny` [n=benny@i577A13B4.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:17:30 stassats: yeah, the delay is just too long ;) and if hit two TABs, it failed to show it 22:17:43 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-135-67-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:45 -!- GurpMan [n=geezsain@sea-gw.practicepartner.com] has quit [] 22:18:37 i wish something like Emacs's partial completion (new in 23) can be implemented 22:19:10 ok, that's fixed by swapping completion and displaying the message 22:21:55 -!- borsman [n=quassel@76.177.217.216] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:22:18 *_3b* wonders if slime could be taught to notice the inferior sbcl is in LDB, so it could tell me i shouldn't keep waiting for output 22:23:05 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-248.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:23:16 leo2007: ok, sent it 22:23:25 so...mcclim seems pretty awesome..is that a fair statement? 22:23:58 _3b: That would mean that sbcl would have to send something over the socket on some pre-ldb hook. It's unlikely that it'd be able to do that considering that it's just about to land in the low-level debugger 22:24:25 _3b: Of course, there could be some idle timer in Emacs that searches *inferior-lisp-buffer* for "LDB>" 22:24:27 <_3b> no way to just watch for it in *inferior-lisp*? 22:24:52 *_3b* types too slowly :) 22:25:15 _3b: Look at run-with-idle-timer, I'm sure you can come up with something yourself. 22:25:32 <_3b> if it happens again, i probably will 22:26:39 _3b: run-with-idle-timer, (with-current-buffer (get-buffer "*inferior-lisp-buffer*"), goto (point-min), search-forward "ldb>", if so (display-warning ....) 22:27:10 i'd goto point-max and search-backward 22:27:16 true 22:27:33 you should probably save some old location etc 22:27:54 or search just few lines 22:27:56 you also have to reset yourself as a idle timer within the timer function. It's only run once, iirc. 22:28:01 drwhen [n=d@66-230-84-151-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:46 -!- adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-251-220.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:28:52 -!- Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:30:00 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:30:18 adeht [n=death@bzq-84-110-251-220.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:25 leo2007: i think, that completion could be easily used 22:31:31 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0880.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:34:00 projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 22:37:21 stassats: which completion? 22:37:33 partial 22:38:17 ok, i just found what it is 22:38:34 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:38:50 you already can expand m-v-b with fuzzy completion 22:38:59 uhm sure 22:40:14 fuzzy completion is about all that makes names like multiple-value-bind even vaguely acceptable :) 22:41:58 Uhm, no, you get that with compound prefix completion, too 22:42:13 fuzzy completion is nice because it comples symbol and package names 22:42:21 at once 22:42:47 i love sb::some-name 22:42:58 because i can't never remember all those sbcl packages 22:45:56 emacs partial completion, that's you want emacs-lisp-mode but forget the name, but you remember there is emacs and mode in it 22:46:08 emacs-mode TAB will complete to emacs-lisp-mode 22:46:20 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177127094.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 22:46:24 yep, fuzzy will do that too 22:46:25 I tried compound with multiple-bind and it failed 22:46:56 stassats: fuzzy offers too many options quite often 22:47:18 well, don't choose all at once 22:47:33 how do you mean? 22:48:00 it assigns score to each guess, usually first several is enough 22:48:02 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 22:48:03 just ignore the other 22:48:26 but that's why i like it, actually 22:48:57 -!- Modius [n=Modius@69.149.25.37] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:49:17 i see, i set its limit to 50 for now 22:49:34 leo2007: make sure you use the slime-c-p-c.el contrib 22:50:00 you can limit threshold (if it can) 22:50:02 then m-v-b should complete to multiple-value-bind 22:50:48 oh well, fuzzy doesn't have threshold 22:51:35 tcr: yes, i use slime-fancy ;) 22:51:49 -!- nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving the office"] 22:52:39 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:52:43 tcr: is it for use with compound completion 22:53:28 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:48 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h59n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 22:56:05 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483CFCA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:56:29 -!- ttt-- [n=ubuntu@78-23-124-196.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:56:34 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:56:53 in the case of m-v-b, you will need to type two TABs with fuzzy 22:57:01 but only one with compound 22:57:14 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:26 i type (m-v-b TAB SPACE (... 22:57:38 -!- benny` is now known as benny 23:00:51 gigamonkey` [n=user@adsl-99-24-218-217.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:32 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 23:04:34 stassats: i think contextual completion will be an excellent addition to fuzzy 23:05:00 leo2007: however, with fuzzy you can avoid typing the dashes as well. 23:05:13 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177079167.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:06:15 S11001001: yes 23:08:04 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:09:24 eadmund [n=ruhl+irc@66.7.168.156] has joined #lisp 23:09:44 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:09:59 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:20 next step, clearly, is iphone-completion-mode 23:10:27 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.36] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:10:29 quick question: does anyone know of a reasonable a*-search library for common lisp? i wrote my own, but it's...not very good. and unfortunatally googling 'a* lisp' doesn't really help 23:10:36 (press keys in the vague vicinity of the letters you actually want) 23:10:54 and rotate it? 23:11:45 <_3b> ok, looks like this particular test case is probably due to glibc sleep/nanosleep storing something in $rbp that confuses sb-sprof 23:12:30 -!- jao [n=jao@122.Red-83-33-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:12:46 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has joined #lisp 23:16:29 i'll take that as a 'no' then...guess i'll just keep hacking on my version. first order of business: use hash tables instead of lists 23:16:56 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-38-164.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 23:17:52 eadmund: that's what mine does too. i should fix it sometime 23:18:12 that fix should be a one line change 23:18:25 hey, speaking of AI, does anybody know anything about LISA (Rete in Lisp)? I tried contacting the author to no avail, and it seems to be broken. The examples don't even work. 23:18:30 i'm using mine to generate tunnels in a roguelike, and the pathfinding is the major chunk of time involved in generation...not good 23:18:34 if you properly abstracted it 23:18:38 stassats: i didn't :) 23:18:46 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:19:20 stassats: me neither...directly manipulating stuff left and right. open list kinda has to be a list, since it's gotta be sorted. or it could be a nifty always-sorted data structure, which takes even more time to implement... 23:19:39 <_3b> isn't that usually a priority queue? 23:19:55 <_3b> you only need the first element to be sorted 23:21:07 <_3b> (for extra fun, add some link fields to the nodes, and build the lists/queues there) 23:21:12 _3b: yup--still slightly more work than a simple list, and my goal here is a roguelike, not a nifty introduction to data structures:-) i might end up doing that anyway 23:21:35 should be a simple change though, if you can find a heap library 23:21:40 wr3x [i=balasia@mrpibb.dreamhost.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:47 -!- wr3x [i=balasia@mrpibb.dreamhost.com] has left #lisp 23:23:45 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-73.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 23:25:59 -!- prip [n=_prip@host254-129-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:28:17 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 23:30:31 tcr, you there? 23:31:32 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:33:38 prip [n=_prip@host134-123-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:40:13 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.112.192] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:40:21 I'm here 23:42:46 how are you? 23:43:21 rotfl 23:44:11 stassats: like it 23:44:29 what? 23:45:04 tcr: with SLIME HEAD, when I recompile about anything while SLIME is running, the Lisp connection closes unexpectedly 23:45:06 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:25 iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:58 That is fucked up 23:46:27 sorry Fare 23:47:11 *Fare* tries exiting emacs and restarting, in case something's borked in my current emacs... 23:47:17 Riastradh: I think I saw a PDF or PS refcard for paredit somewhere. Would that have been something you made? 23:47:38 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:48:06 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:33 *Fare* is at the exciting stage where there is enough of the new XCVB to start debugging the previously introduced bugs. 23:50:41 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-109.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:51:06 for a working prototype, see the README for how to access the old code 23:51:45 so debug.. 23:53:30 mjf [n=mjf@r3a98.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 23:54:14 -!- attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@adsl-89-132-1-79.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:54:39 -!- prip [n=_prip@host134-123-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:55:43 how do I start from the REPL the SLIME inspection of something, already? 23:56:41 Fare: M-x slime-inspect? 23:57:16 C-c I 23:57:24 -!- ztzg [n=dash@dslb-084-057-035-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:59:24 whoa, changing syntax to something that's #+disabled causes major slime breakage 23:59:49 Fare: you might like (swank:inspect-in-emacs #) 23:59:54 like hanging?