00:02:15 -!- DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-226-30-65.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:04:42 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C095.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:04:47 DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-226-30-65.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:20 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-ce3948e8dbfbca4c] has joined #lisp 00:10:22 -!- postamar [n=postamar@modemcable110.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:12:26 -!- dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:12:47 tessier_ [n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com] has joined #lisp 00:13:00 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-2-151-96.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:44 is there a particular XML library that is more highly regarded? 00:13:56 cxml 00:13:56 cxml 00:14:02 *gigamonk`* wins! 00:14:09 no! 00:14:14 thanks :) 00:14:44 *stassats`* looks into logs, indeed 00:14:55 my client showed my message first 00:15:16 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 00:15:26 -!- rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:15:58 *gigamonk`* lets stassats hold the trophy for a moment. 00:16:14 oh, shiny 00:16:20 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:19:36 brandelune_ [n=suzume@pl395.nas932.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:20:26 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl094.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:24:30 -!- alec [n=alec@pool-96-237-2-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:27:40 -!- alama [n=alama@171.66.107.130] has quit [] 00:28:27 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:28:29 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:34:49 -!- tessier_ [n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:37:34 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:41:13 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.232] has joined #lisp 00:42:08 -!- DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-226-30-65.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:48:36 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:52:11 -!- easch [n=easch@purpletree.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:52:22 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Success] 00:54:15 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.232] has quit ["leaving"] 00:58:29 Is there anything like split-sequence that can split a string by multiple charcters? like (split "bar" "foobarfoo") ==> ("foo" "foo")? 01:01:36 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.232] has joined #lisp 01:02:35 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-be4ef24b644b63ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:10:57 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:11:27 inforichland [n=inforich@96-42-29-58.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:12:12 (cl-ppcre:split "bar" "foobarfoo") => ("foo" "foo") 01:12:22 , bgs100 01:13:32 back 01:13:34 Thanks 01:14:09 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["DON'T PANIC"] 01:15:37 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Success] 01:23:17 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["evening"] 01:23:28 -!- slashus2 [n=dex@74-141-105-89.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [] 01:25:37 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:30:08 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.232] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:35:28 brandelune [n=suzume@pl395.nas932.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:37:15 -!- CrazyEddy [n=antiphlo@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:38:35 -!- brandelune_ [n=suzume@pl395.nas932.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:39:50 CrazyEddy [n=catacomb@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:42:13 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-73-218.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:47:57 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:48:20 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 02:01:54 DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-147-87-138.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:39 carbocalm [n=user@76-10-146-176.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:04 -!- inforichland [n=inforich@96-42-29-58.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [] 02:04:59 jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:01 -!- dreish_ [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:07:09 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:15 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633642.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:20:56 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 02:21:30 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:22:01 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl395.nas932.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 02:26:36 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:27:22 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:00 phf [n=phf@c-98-231-211-226.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:14 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-73-218.netcologne.de] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 02:29:49 slashus2 [n=dex@74-141-105-89.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 02:30:51 phf pasted "return value type declaration" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80058 02:31:14 how do i declare the type of return value in this case? 02:31:54 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 02:33:42 or in general make sbcl perform as much optimization as it can 02:33:44 (declaim (ftype (function (*) double-float) vsum)) ? 02:34:13 sb-ext::*derive-function-types* ? 02:36:03 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:40:04 about optimization .. is there a way to make SBCL always compile in the repl? .. as to get this to give notifications when entered via the repl; (defun sum (x y) (declare (optimize speed)) (+ x y)) 02:40:37 i know i could do something like; (compile nil '(lambda (x y) (declare (optimize speed)) (+ x y))) .. but yeah 02:41:19 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Client Quit] 02:41:42 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 02:46:59 what notifications do you want? 02:48:33 pfhaust [n=pfhaust@c-71-227-167-254.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:46 is it possible to control it? .. it'd be nice to have the (defun ...) snippet above display the same notifications as the (compile ..) snippet does 02:49:21 jfactor [n=jfactor@student167-17.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 02:50:51 (maybe the initial part of my question, "always compile", is wrong .. it might already compile, but just not display messages in that case) 02:52:05 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:07 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:53:36 jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 02:53:37 -!- CrazyEddy [n=catacomb@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:55:38 lnostdal: see src/code/eval.lisp:%SIMPLE-EVAL; you can redefine it so that it doesn't muffle compiler notes 02:56:12 phf annotated #80058 "still getting the same note" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80058#1 02:56:44 nice, it works, froydnj :) 02:56:49 phf: you will always get that note...it's not going to go away 02:57:58 because you can't pass unboxed floats from functions? 02:58:10 lnostdal: and yes, if SB-EXT:*EVALUATOR-MODE* is :COMPILE, your code (almost) always gets COMPILE'd first 02:58:14 because the values are boxed? 02:58:18 oh, ok 02:58:30 right--although the value won't be boxed if that function is inlined 02:58:43 or if it's a local (LABELS/FLET) function 03:01:00 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:02:28 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.232] has joined #lisp 03:04:36 http://paste.lisp.org/display/80061 03:06:30 hmm, (lambda (a b) (let ((foo (cons a b))) (car foo))) doesn't get optimized 03:08:10 yes, sbcl is not particularly sophisticated about optimizing across function calls 03:08:58 -!- shelducks [n=prot@d142-59-60-123.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:10:02 Only AllegroCL does much interfunction optimation that I know of. But sbcl does optimize inlined functions, if I read the manual correctly. 03:11:45 yes, but that's something different from what I was talking about. 03:12:36 I don't know a better way to describe it; maybe "doesn't consider the calling form of any given form" or something like that. 03:15:20 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-197-248.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:29 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:18:16 CrazyEddy [n=sacchari@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 03:20:28 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@pool-173-79-200-142.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:23:29 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 03:25:17 -!- phf [n=phf@c-98-231-211-226.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 03:26:26 pinterface1 [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:35 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:32:32 _REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 03:36:00 alama [n=alama@c-76-102-151-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:30 Good morning. 03:40:42 Hey beach. 03:44:05 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202159110.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:44:22 younder [n=jthing@084202159110.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 03:47:34 column view.. is that like a table? 03:47:57 although I never heard of navigating between columns 03:48:55 -!- addled [n=alawson@235.Red-83-37-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:49:54 column view can be splitting a long vertical list of results into two halves and displaying the first half on the left side of some viewport and the second half on the right of that same viewport (?) 03:50:17 not sure about the context here .. :) 03:50:27 addled [n=alawson@235.Red-83-37-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:39 and I'm not sure how far (temporally) back in scrollback it was 03:50:52 surely mogunus didn't mean something that silly 03:51:56 ohok, i haven't seen the context 03:58:08 -!- lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:01:16 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:37 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-2-151-96.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:10:33 how does one normally deal with the unwanted nils in macroexpansions? 04:11:02 I'm doing simple dynamic templates 04:11:48 Trying to start the swank server in a fresh external sbcl process. Start it up (load "path/to/my/swank-loader.lisp"), returns T but swank is still an unknown package, and requiring it doesn't seem to work either. Ideas? 04:12:25 errr... slime is still an unknown package. 04:13:00 -!- addled [n=alawson@235.Red-83-37-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:13:56 addled [n=alawson@235.Red-83-37-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:27 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Client Quit] 04:16:38 -!- binarin` [n=user@62.105.145.214] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:16:38 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:16:38 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-245-43.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:16:38 -!- fnordus [n=dnall@70.71.225.48] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:16:38 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-197-248.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:16:38 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.232] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:16:38 -!- durka42 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04:17:45 dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 04:17:45 _dima [i=dima@torch.blackened.com] has joined #lisp 04:17:45 Axioplase [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 04:17:45 tcoppi [n=nuclear@57c3ed63-1294-45bd-a8e8-cdcc07cfa16f.static.grokthis.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:45 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-127-94.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:45 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 04:18:51 DeusExPikachu, if i can't have stray nils in the expansion i use ,@ and add an extra set of outer parens for the "true" case .. like this; (let ((x nil)) `(a ,@(when x `((b c))) d)) ... maybe there are better ways though 04:19:20 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.254.12] has joined #lisp 04:21:34 -!- addled [n=alawson@235.Red-83-37-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Success] 04:21:44 hmm, it works but seems kinda weird, thanks though 04:24:05 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.246.215] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:24:16 hefner: i mean column view like in the finder. 04:24:24 for navigating a hierarchy of nested folders. 04:24:42 DeusExPikachu: it's perfectly natural. if you don't want a nil, don't substitute one in. 04:24:55 oh wait, I miss read that, yeah it does look good 04:25:09 drewc [n=user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:11 I thought you were using the when for dynamic insertion 04:27:05 addled [n=alawson@89.Red-83-36-62.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:36 ..i think it's possible to add a custom version of ,@ that "removes the nils" .. that is without having to add extra outer parens for the non-nil case .. dunno for sure though :) 04:27:57 mogunus: you'd have to rig that up yourself. sounds like a bunch of list panes arranged horizontally, if I remember the finder right. 04:28:14 maybe, but I see how it works now, thanks 04:30:03 yay. more disks! 04:33:24 er.. um.. 04:34:24 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:34:44 slyrus [n=chatzill@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:59 ack. more disks == kernel panic. 04:35:23 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:33 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:40:37 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 04:42:59 ltriant [n=user@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:43:34 -!- ltriant [n=user@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has left #lisp 04:44:14 -!- mogunus [n=user@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:44:31 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-60-75.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:45:18 -!- carbocalm [n=user@76-10-146-176.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:48:45 -!- alama 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[n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:13 someone threw the word "metadata" in a clojure context, and i don't think it means the same thing it does in Information Retrieval, file systems or databases 05:28:00 can someone put that in my vintage cltl2 vocabulary? 05:28:13 fusss: what do you mean ? 05:28:51 kludge 05:29:22 someone said clojure multimethods can "dispatch on metadata". 05:29:27 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 05:29:28 well 05:29:41 (def foo (with-meta [] {:foo 'foo})) 05:30:03 would, for example, attach the metadata :foo -> 'foo to an array 05:30:14 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 05:30:32 you could read it back with ^foo 05:30:57 and ..? 05:31:06 and? 05:31:15 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 05:31:28 i tought you wanted to know about clojure metadata ... maybe i understood wrongly. 05:31:43 i mean, practical uses, besides being able to attach a property to a symbol 05:32:00 hm 05:32:10 it's similar to plists in use 05:33:00 danlei: forget it about it, i can always read the manual. 05:33:34 -!- addled [n=alawson@89.Red-83-36-62.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:33:51 ok. maybe what you read reffered to the use of the :type metadata wrt multimetods/type/derive 05:34:00 i wasn't sure if clojure's "metadata" where runtime information of all objects/code in the running app, exposed by the compiler and runtime (for profiling, debugging and reflection, etc.) 05:34:30 but i think metadata are keywords+plists+reader-macros of sorts 05:35:11 pinterface2 [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:53 addled [n=alawson@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:12 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-109.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 05:36:22 -!- pinterface2 [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 05:36:22 i'm not an expert, but i think of them like you just said. (you can add type hints by using somethin like (defn blubb [ 05:36:39 (defn blubb [#^String s] .. 05:37:08 which is the same as (defn blubb [#^{:tag String} s ...) 05:38:05 danlei: say no more. something in me that liked Dylan's sealed classes just died in me. 05:38:05 :-P 05:38:22 =) 05:39:00 awful, awful. 05:39:14 so much syntax wasted on so little 05:39:32 aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has joined #lisp 05:39:43 type specialization .. don't wrong 05:39:46 done 05:42:00 -!- addled [n=alawson@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Success] 05:42:08 splittist [n=dmurray@34-45.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 05:42:10 morning 05:42:26 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:42:48 i guess one of the major differences to plists is, that you can attach the metadata not only to symbols, but to clojure datatypes in gerneal. but i'm not a clojure expert. 05:44:19 -!- pinterface1 [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:44:29 -!- xan-afk [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:46:48 -!- slyrus [n=chatzill@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 05:47:03 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:43 xan-afk [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:51:20 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:52:52 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202159110.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 05:56:25 -!- ttt-- [n=ubuntu@78-23-124-196.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:57:43 -!- pfhaust [n=pfhaust@c-71-227-167-254.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:59:55 addled [n=alawson@235.Red-83-37-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:32 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:01:17 -!- slyrus__ is now known as slyrus 06:04:00 cirquitz [n=cirquitz@59.164.40.253] has joined #lisp 06:04:28 -!- mogunus [n=user@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:06:36 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:06 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:11:28 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:41 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:13:00 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-73-218.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:13:45 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:14:55 how does one make a "foo" pathname into a "foo/" pathname? 06:16:54 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 06:17:09 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:17:56 I should rephrase, is there a way without using concatenate? 06:18:08 pfhaust [n=pfhaust@c-71-227-167-254.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:10 DeusExPikachu: concatenate is wrong, what about windows where the path seperator (used to be) is different? 06:19:34 thats what I'm thinking... hence is there an official way or do I have to write my own 06:19:42 -!- Maghnus_ [n=maghnus@66-191-104-128.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:19:50 do you mean something like (make-pathname :directory '(:relative "foo"))? 06:20:24 hmm didn't know about the :relative keyword 06:20:31 -!- bhyde [n=bhyde@c-66-30-202-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:20:47 cl-fad:pathname-as-directory 06:21:50 the :relative keyword wasn't in the documentation for make-pathname 06:21:56 but it works 06:21:57 thanks 06:22:04 (Although I don't think there'd be anything wrong with concatenate for namestrings, if CL documented a *directory-separator* variable.) 06:22:26 -!- fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Success] 06:24:00 doesn't / work on windows anyway, or is that an illusion created by the software I happen to use on it? (or a figment of my imagination) 06:24:10 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:24:47 -!- sphex [n=nobody@74.56.138.185] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:25:35 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 06:27:35 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:27:46 Hello! 06:32:09 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 06:32:36 -!- pfhaust [n=pfhaust@c-71-227-167-254.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:34:11 -!- cirquitz [n=cirquitz@59.164.40.253] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:35:36 dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-198-84.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:57 pfhaust [n=pfhaust@c-71-227-167-254.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:56 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-155-65.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:42:35 good morning 06:43:58 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 06:47:30 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 06:49:51 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:50:40 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:50:56 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 06:51:18 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 06:51:50 ASau` [n=user@host13-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 06:56:48 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:56:52 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:30 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:00:01 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:05:36 -!- dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-198-84.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:08:47 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:12:12 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:12:20 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:14:14 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:15:25 lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:16:45 -!- slashus2 [n=dex@74-141-105-89.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [] 07:16:50 -!- addled [n=alawson@235.Red-83-37-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:17:00 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 07:17:17 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:17:20 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:18:03 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-16-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:18:14 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:20:08 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 07:22:07 good morning 07:22:10 addled [n=alawson@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:39 -!- pfhaust [n=pfhaust@c-71-227-167-254.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:22:42 can someone confirm unithreaded build brokenness -- it builds fine on darwin at least 07:23:56 nikodemus: will check on x86 and x86_64; reporting back in a few hours 07:28:42 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:29:29 thanks 07:29:59 oh, actually. i forget -- i can use the gcc farm to check 07:33:41 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-64-31.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:35:59 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:42:23 ttt-- [n=ubuntu@78-23-124-196.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:42:33 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4775.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:42:58 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 07:43:19 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 07:44:59 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:55 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 07:47:06 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:08 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@novelletto.bio.uniroma2.it] has joined #lisp 07:50:37 hello 07:54:20 good morning fe[nl]ix 07:54:29 ia__ [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 07:55:15 hi trebor_dki 07:55:25 -!- ia_ [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:01:40 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:03:04 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has left #lisp 08:03:19 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:04:18 -!- ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:09:38 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:10:06 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:24 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 08:14:58 quote of the day "we're not seizing the day at all" 08:17:02 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-6.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:18:57 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.4.140.209] has joined #lisp 08:20:26 FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 08:24:31 dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 08:24:34 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 08:28:48 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@p76-n239.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #lisp 08:31:18 koning_robot [n=aap@e244075.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 08:32:00 -!- koning_r1bot [n=aap@e244075.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:33:22 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:10 attila_lendvai [n=ati@131.31ec54.tvnetwork.hu] has joined #lisp 08:36:30 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:36:38 -!- jao [n=jao@33.Red-83-39-134.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:38:34 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-115.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:40:05 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 08:42:57 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 08:43:03 good morning 08:43:21 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-60-139.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:43:27 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:43:37 good morning kami- 08:44:51 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:45:06 sphex__ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 08:46:32 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:47:53 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:49:06 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:54 younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 08:52:15 *younder* notes that the postgreSQL manual is a massive 1800 page affair.. 08:54:01 i've noticed the same thing, younder .. :P .. pgsql is filled with lots of cool stuff 08:54:39 Guess I'll spend another day getting my blog software running under sbcl and postgreSQL 08:54:53 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:55:05 oh, the Postmodrern library cover a lot of the most-often-used stuff 08:55:10 Postmodern* 08:55:49 http://common-lisp.net/project/postmodern/ .. it has some rough edges, but it's been mostly great .. for me 08:56:24 what do you think about my lisp, younder ? .. this is slowly turning into some sort of APL hack thing; http://paste.lisp.org/display/80067#5 .. :) 08:56:50 reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:57:11 I use cl-sql.. That should work too. Though it might not be able to use all of postgreSQL's features since the software ran previously under MySQL it should work. 08:57:28 lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:57:31 unicode has a lot of characters .. i will need to restrain myself :P 08:58:13 ah, i used cl-sql before also .. it seems to have "died" somewhat and i recall having troubles with it (i do not recall details though), and i eventually gave up and tried postmodern instead 08:58:29 ..and it worked out better 08:58:31 Inostdal: lol I did almost exactly the same thing under LispWorks. 08:58:52 cool :) 09:00:38 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:00:53 i've xmodmap'ed Shift+Caps Lock to  09:03:41 Is a class anything other than a user-made type? If so, isn't lisp completely Object Oriented? 09:03:52 *common lisp 09:04:05 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@novelletto.bio.uniroma2.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:04:24 common lisp has types. Each value has a type, those types can be used in CLOS. 09:04:55 konr: the functions that common-lisp defines are not built on top of clos and can not be specialised as methods can be 09:05:23 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 09:05:26 G'day 09:05:37 plage: Good morning! 09:05:39 hey 09:06:40 -!- moesenle [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:06:46 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:07:16 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.4.140.209] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:07:21 madnificent: interesting... I thought that, eg, (+ 1 3) worked like a generic function, looking for the correct method to apply to integer objects 09:08:32 Inostdal: I pasted my lambda.lisp code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/80072. 09:08:52 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 09:08:53 konr, http://pastebay.com/15255 .. so + is a "normal function", not a generic function or method, konr 09:10:44 younder, ok, my  gets expanded into a "cell" instance here .. that's why i got to use ~ to read or extract the value of the cell(s) .. inspired by kennys spreadsheet cells project this 09:12:31 younder, http://common-lisp.net/~lnostdal/sw-mvc.ogv .. dunno if you can see that video .. i use #@ instead of  there; they denote the same thing .. (one of the set-macro-character snippets are not correct) 09:14:31 Insosdal: I am running ubuntu Linux at the moment, so yes. (I have installed a ogv driver under Windows too.) 09:14:59 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:15:07 cool :) 09:15:07 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:16:06 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:16:18 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@novelletto.bio.uniroma2.it] has joined #lisp 09:16:56 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@p76-n239.kthopen.kth.se] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 09:20:16 So you are one of the users of Kenny's cells? 09:20:44 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Success] 09:20:55 no, i couldn't get cells to work + i suffer from NiH, so i'm working on some custom dataflow thingy 09:21:46 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-158-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:22:31 So you couldn't either :) 09:23:14 heh, yeah .. i did have it up and running a while back .. but i think he's introduced some code here-and-there which is ACL specific lately 09:24:21 I have studied the basic idea in a language called Oz. (compiler Motzart.) An interesting approach to massive paralellism. 09:25:49 hm, yeah, 1 step indirection like this means the step or dereferencing can fetch something on the other end of the world or whatever i guess 09:26:30 I think data-flow has definate applications particularly to streamlineing window interactions. 09:26:40 ..result of formula is 1 step indirection + w/ a deref. required also .. i've had waay too much coffee 09:27:08 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 09:28:06 I always felt in event based programming that the data disappeared down a black hole never to be seen again. And that you had to take it on faith it got eaten by the right object. 09:28:41 It makes more sence to put the object to sleep until all the data are defined ad then trigger it. 09:29:30 ah, delay a "pulse"? .. or group operations together? 09:31:00 Well, take something with complex window interaction, like a desktop pulishing system. 09:31:13 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:31:37 You have to maintain 6 different views of the document at the same time. 09:32:20 If you can define it interms of what triggers when a change occurs,it is easier to program. 09:32:57 (better mapping to sparse state space, using a rete algorithm) 09:33:05 yes 09:35:23 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:35:56 http://paste.lisp.org/display/80067#6 09:36:11 like that? 09:37:31 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 09:37:52 More or less. 09:38:47 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 09:39:29 -!- lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:39:48 Except in Oz each object is a lightweight thread. (a processor can have as many as 10000 of them). And you have easy way's to distribute them across processors, across the LAN or even over the net. 09:40:18 ah, cool .. hm 09:41:15 ..the state-propagation is safe; it uses STM .. so multiple users can manipulate the same "formula-network" concurrently .. i think i could add something that makes each node a thread or so 09:41:16 It is in a sence simular to the agent based programming described in "Artificial Intelligence a Modern Approcah" (AIMA) by Peter Norvig 09:42:01 (maybe i'll use another unicode-char for that .. heh :P) 09:42:10 ok 09:42:36 (or each node should not be a thread; but an abstraction that requests a "worker" .. or something) 09:43:23 should be fun .. wish i had more time .. so much one could try out and ideas to play with 09:43:23 -!- albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:43:34 albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 09:44:12 a question about slime & loop: how do you get a "then"-part indented correctly (if i need to put it into the next line it will be indented like the previous for)? 09:45:17 What do you consider correct? 09:46:26 -!- sphex__ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46:28 younder: being a novice, i thought of the way the then clause of (if..) is indented. 09:46:50 I find loop on one line, then the expression on the second solves most of the loop indentation problems. 09:46:53 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:54 Oh, so not a for .. then ... 09:48:07 younder: i have loop on one line, for on the next, but this for is somehow to long for one line, because it hase a then, so i would like to put it into the next line. 09:48:10 trebor_dki: correct loop indentation is slightly controversial 09:49:04 while most agree that logical/nesting indentation is *better* there isn't yet a robust way to do that automatically 09:49:15 hence most/many prefer to align all keywords 09:49:49 because that can be made robust and automatic easily 09:50:09 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@novelletto.bio.uniroma2.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:52:12 ok. that might be because "loop" is no lisp ;) 09:52:59 (i presume) 09:53:03 s~most/many~nikodemus~ 09:53:05 A alternative is to use Iterate. Which indent's more logically. 09:54:27 Of cource you need to download a seperate library for that and :use it in all the packages that need it. 09:54:42 splittist: i thought last time we talked about this most present said they actually align keywords, even if they would prefer not to 09:55:07 but being biased as hell, i may have read what i wanted :) 09:55:17 younder: that is exactly the reason i still do not use it - i would have to learn asdf before ;) 09:55:43 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 09:55:54 nikodemus: "even if they would prefer not to", but you translated it into "most/many prefer to" 09:56:16 oh, right. 09:57:14 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.236.246] has joined #lisp 09:57:21 that is a misrepresentation indeed 09:58:04 try ", lite ". This only works if you have installed the library. Not exactly rocket science.. 09:59:06 from the REPL 10:04:10 younder: "installed the libray", as i said i need to learn asdf before. i will do so, but first this app has to be finished ... thanks anyway. 10:04:58 -!- dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:05:02 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:05:46 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 10:07:10 No problem, you can indent manually, if the automatic indentation is too much off. 10:08:09 If you are a beginner perhaps this is the simplest option. (we all do it from time to time..) 10:10:37 mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-673c2cf82fdd4c8f] has joined #lisp 10:13:22 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:20:40 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 10:20:42 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:07 Samy [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:10 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 10:25:29 -!- dmiles [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:31:23 ntoll [n=ntoll@87.236.135.147] has joined #lisp 10:31:41 elias` [n=me@resnet-pat-254.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:33:03 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:33:40 -!- erk [n=MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [K-lined] 10:36:43 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:38:45 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:40:46 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-235.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:42:45 kei [n=gueorgui@gmt.su] has joined #lisp 10:47:12 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087A3AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:38 -!- aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:57:42 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 10:58:28 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-249-58-190.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:00:01 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 11:03:24 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:03:47 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:15:08 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:15:08 knobo [n=user@fcnoos-fw03.freecode.no] has joined #lisp 11:15:39 someone called mop an api. Is that correct? 11:16:28 depends on which definition of 'API' you want :) 11:16:42 it is commonly used to mean roughly what the P in MOP does 11:16:46 Ragnaroek [i=54a677c7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a00b9eef00e3b93a] has joined #lisp 11:16:51 knobo: meta object protocol... protocol could be a good one :P 11:17:10 hi 11:17:12 I prefer to reserve 'API' for things where the objects are application objects 11:18:06 I wish the MOP was in fact a standard.. If you want portabillity try 'closer' by Pascal Costanza 11:19:33 It irons out some of the difficulties. If you want only sbcl then your're mostly in the clear at it is follows the AMOP book most closely. 11:19:41 -!- MrSpec is now known as Aurinko` 11:19:49 -!- Aurinko` is now known as mrSpec 11:20:28 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:21:48 carbocalm [n=user@76-10-146-176.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 11:23:19 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@wsip-70-182-191-195.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:27 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.232] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:25:46 -!- carbocalm [n=user@76-10-146-176.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:27:15 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:29:48 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181136249.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:31:32 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 11:33:09 I doubt the MOP not being approved by any standards organization has had much effect on its adoption and conformance by CL implementations 11:34:35 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-e14d51101fbd2476] has left #lisp 11:34:37 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 11:36:45 You would be wrong about that. But read the issues in the above mentioned software. 11:36:53 Lisp Users: Due to the holiday next Monday, there will be no garbage collection. 11:37:11 thanks Pascal 11:37:20 ;) 11:37:35 GCs have gone a long way 11:39:19 Quite to the contrary, it has become quite ephimeral.. 11:40:11 matimago: heh :) 11:40:31 psheldr [n=user@p5B03AE1C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:42:42 http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=802040 for the beginning.. 11:44:58 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:45:08 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 11:48:56 You may be more used to the word 'volatile' (from C), something that disappears rappidly or changes often and unpredictably 11:49:52 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 11:50:30 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 11:50:58 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 11:51:25 You might say that the evolution in generational GC has helped getting rid of short lived object's fast. (aprox 60 Hz for Gen. 0) 11:52:44 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:32 HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:56:36 younder: are you discussing with somebody? I only see your lines... 11:57:03 delqna [n=delqna@ABordeaux-158-1-25-228.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:57:17 younder: nevermind. 11:57:45 I often wonder the same thing. 11:58:07 Sometimes I also answer old lines. 11:59:04 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:02:18 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host132.190-227-38.telecom.net.ar] has quit ["leaving"] 12:02:34 Tordek [n=tordek@host132.190-227-38.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 12:04:59 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087A3AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:07:06 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 12:08:46 -!- _REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:09:24 Maddas [n=Maddas@tardis-b23.ee.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 12:09:37 pinterface2 [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:23 -!- gh7d395pi69wd [n=d23zbgfd@unaffiliated/gh7d395pi69wd] has quit ["( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )"] 12:17:21 bhyde [n=bhyde@c-66-30-202-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:10 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["restart"] 12:21:38 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:00 what are some good references on distributed Lisp systems? preferably something like Mosix which combines disparate nodes into a single machine "instance"? 12:23:58 it doesn't even have to be Lispy, just a well documented application platform that isn't full of low-level details or HPC jargon 12:24:11 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:24:43 -!- mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-673c2cf82fdd4c8f] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 12:24:55 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-2-151-96.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:44 martin__ [n=martin@0x50a277b6.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1109.rdnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:25:56 HG` [n=wells@xdslgn214.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:25:57 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 12:26:08 something else i have no clue about is messaging and event propagation. say i have a largish system with multiple users; i want to be able to generate messages to the user based on some "business logic", much like the same way unix systems send reminders when user quotas are nearing their limits. 12:26:55 -!- PissedNumlock [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:27:14 There is no distributed lisp system. 12:27:41 i wouldn't bet on that 12:27:46 Try Oz 12:28:14 even if it's not "distributed" in the theoretical sense, any load balanced server would pretty much fit my requirements 12:28:40 younder: I am prototyping stuff in Mozart/Oz, and I wouldn't recommend it for production use :-) 12:28:51 fusss: The only thing I can think of offhand (not my area, sadly) is Linda, but I don't think it's what you're after. 12:28:55 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:29:05 -!- pinterface2 is now known as pinterface 12:29:12 I think you need to be more specific about your needs. 12:29:16 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslgn214.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:29:30 pinterface2: i played with c-linda, but it's mostly like a glue job-controlish type tool, closer to TCL than a distributed system, imo. 12:29:32 (not that I have any answers, but I like to absorb and synthesize the information) 12:29:40 shelducks [n=agis@cpe-24-198-28-3.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:22 fusss: Me too. Why wouldn't you recomed it for production use? I haven't had any significant issues. 12:31:31 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp124.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:31:40 i am hacking on 2-3 machines, two webservers and a mail host, and stuff is really ugly. i feel like i haven't grown past perl. i want to be able to do the "load balancing" at a different level of granularity. say, migrate user sessions to a different box based on traffic or geographic proximity. 12:32:40 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 12:32:42 i know my main problem is that i'm being a bit of a perfectionist and a bit of a princess. no reason i can't kludge things away like they do everywhere else. i will use my messaging problem as an example. 12:33:25 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:34:02 i'm running an ad network. so advertiser pre-pay for a campaign and we run them. each ad request (just for display) deducts some money from the account, and each click (a hit) deducts a bit more, and each goal completion (a sale) deducts even more. 12:35:28 right now, the billing module feeds the ad scheduler, and something like "HAS-MONEY-P" has to be called for every request. i wish to be able to remove this, up until a certain low threshold is reached. 12:35:37 -!- sqweek [n=none@203-206-65-102.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:35:59 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:36:14 then a :refill message would be sent up the chain to something that notifies the user by mail, etc. 12:37:10 this can be made elegant and all, on one machine instance, but things are getting hairy on two, or three, even hairier if i want to be able to just plug a machine into the network and have it work. 12:37:37 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:37:46 *p_l* just had an idea for hairy geographical balancing using PI address space and BGP... no, way to hairy 12:37:51 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 12:37:55 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-235.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:38:03 younder: just call it a hunch, but i don't think the boys at ITA are running one beefy AMD server :-P 12:38:31 fred-o [n=user@c-56e170d5.017-8-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:38:37 pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:40 fusss: Ahh, thesometimes available laptop bit 12:39:00 -!- psheldr [n=user@p5B03AE1C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:39:07 That seems more like network problem 12:40:05 I remeber at Opera they used to cause hell. 12:40:39 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:42:37 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 12:43:26 What firewall do you use? 12:43:39 makes me think the early CORBA literature would have something tangible. the works of the java crowd are pure wankery, imo. 12:44:15 Any Danes in this channel? 12:45:06 younder: me? iptables :-P 12:45:14 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:45:34 good, that's very configurable 12:46:56 Your problem is that not any one should be able to plug a laptop into the network so you have to restrict it to certaing MAC's. 12:47:29 mac addresses are user-configurable 12:47:42 settable i mean 12:47:46 The ID on your ethernet card (chip) 12:48:01 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:48:03 no, the ones that appear on ethernet 12:48:09 this is a bizarre tangent 12:48:23 jdz: what? 12:48:40 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:48:53 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 12:48:56 younder: set mac addres, first hit on google, go go look up 12:49:50 ugh! 12:49:53 plutonas [n=plutonas@ip1772.pool2.wireless.lu.se] has joined #lisp 12:50:11 good ole franz, they have Lisp RPC and probably a paper i can ogle. 12:50:16 No, wonder I disabled flash bios. 12:51:05 umm, now that's running off the tangent here 12:51:25 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:51:37 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 12:51:52 fusss: surely account status doesn't change very frequently. you could cache the whole state on each ad server and them pull from the billing server periodically. low tech. 12:52:35 fusss: google for write barrier. that problem has been solved before :) 12:53:00 hefner: i even have hunchentoot sessions in a sql database. it IS doable, but the resulting code is not something you would be proud of :-P 12:53:34 *hefner* hates databases 12:54:07 jgracin [n=jgracin@78-1-150-6.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:54:15 *mega1* sides with hefner 12:54:56 i have about 6-10 sequential processes that follow each other. but the monitoring, event propagation, messaging, reporting and the other house keeping stuff are asynchronous, and sometimes heavily rely on unix signals. signals don't cross into other machines .. or maybe to wrap host signals with another daemon that does network broadcast signals? 12:55:05 so try a object database with less impedance than a relational one 12:55:11 -!- fred-o [n=user@c-56e170d5.017-8-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 12:55:35 I take it it is your OO way's that create the problem. 12:56:43 more like my lack of a soul killing, corporate programming experience. i have been on my own since 2002 and i don't think i have done any OO deliberately :-P 12:56:51 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@wsip-70-182-191-195.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 12:57:16 fusss: that does sound like a mess. :) 12:58:19 ablaert [n=ablaert@nezmar.jabbim.cz] has joined #lisp 12:58:35 -!- kidd2 [n=kidd@221.Red-79-152-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:58:35 heh, glad to have sympathy :-P 12:58:43 Numlock [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 12:59:13 kidd2 [n=kidd@221.Red-79-152-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:25 fusss: In Oz, not Lisp? 13:00:44 fuss: I've only skimmed this conversation but it seems like you want persistent queing system. 13:00:58 er, 'fusss' 13:01:02 fusss: don't know what questions you have exactly, but my overall impression is that your understanding of the issues is pretty good, so I'd only offer sympathy rather than advice, too. 13:01:27 -!- ablaert [n=ablaert@nezmar.jabbim.cz] has left #lisp 13:02:04 The solutions are usually painfully obvious anyway. If the problem is SQL, fix it by adding more SQL. etc. 13:02:20 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has left #lisp 13:02:34 If it's IPC, use even more duct-tape. (Well, or switch to Erlang.) 13:03:21 fusss prototypes in Mozart/Oz. 13:03:29 But same idea 13:04:20 Does OpenGBB do cross-process blackboard? 13:04:26 Problems all around apperantly .. 13:04:44 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633642.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 13:05:44 gigamonk`: go on, please 13:08:22 lichtblau: sql comes into play only if i find its needed. i am getting away with far easier solutions: the ad assets are in a directory, the hot ones are cached in memory; the user sessions are in mysql bdb table, no innodb; all other stuff are clos objects which i keep in rucksack for now, with a textual CSV log which i later load to mysql as needed when the user logs in to do analytics. 13:09:50 -!- pem [n=pem@159.226.35.246] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:10:26 i hit a nasty upper limit with the number of requests i can handle per second; 200/s is good news to any site, except an ad network. our average publisher account sees 10k a day, and this before we even officially launched. there is no way around a server farm, but the application is strictly a single image app. 13:10:37 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:11:41 fusss: basically queing systems are designed for reliably connecting processes on multiple machines. You can even have them be transactional though if you need 100% correct transactions (i.e. you want to receive a message and then put something in a SQL database in one transaction) you'll also need a transaction manager which nobody wants. 13:13:05 You will, however, have to break up your app. But if you're planning to scale up, you're going to have to do that no matter what solution you choose. 13:13:33 -!- knobo [n=user@fcnoos-fw03.freecode.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:13:36 yeah 13:16:51 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:17:34 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:19 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp124.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 13:19:17 heh, if there was one application I wouldn't go near lisp for, it'd be an ad serving thingy 13:19:42 though yep, a queuing system woudl no doubt help 13:19:47 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 13:19:58 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:59 wormhole [i=450f6c7d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-20a7b069c6a737d2] has joined #lisp 13:21:16 If you can standing running a JVM, you might look at something like this. http://activemq.apache.org/ 13:21:27 -!- martin__ [n=martin@0x50a277b6.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1109.rdnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:21:42 no doubt there is a cl-mq around somewhere :) 13:21:46 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:21:47 Or you can spend some largish number of months/years writing a queing system from scratch in CL. 13:22:01 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey` 13:22:22 http://www.nicklevine.org/cl-rabbit/ - disappointingly, this one is only an interface to another queuing system 13:22:45 chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:48 Merimac [i=5bcfd14d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7f21cc4ad216eb19] has joined #lisp 13:23:09 G'day ! 13:24:39 Hi, can I specialise: (defmethod resources.render-fullpage (doc &rest args)) with (defmethod resources.render-fullpage :around (doc &key page-title &rest args) ? I mean: I cannot in this form, because the compiler complains, but maybe I can do something to a similar effect. 13:24:55 i.e. ignore keyword args in more generic methods, but use them in specialisations 13:25:13 I working on the TICTACTOE but I have some probleme with the initialiation of my board ! my 9 empty element are always displayed in one line ! I don't arrive to get a nice board with 3 lines of 3 elements 13:25:36 Merimac: use 2-dim array maybe 13:26:16 puchacz thx I go to try ;) 13:26:36 Merimac: you may want to write a function to nicely print your board 13:27:33 jobf [n=jbf@c80-216-238-151.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:28:34 puchacz pasted "2-dim arrays are nice on screen" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/80078 13:28:41 mvilleneuve it's what I have done 13:28:47 Merimac: have a look, I was playing with sudoku once 13:29:38 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a677c7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a00b9eef00e3b93a] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 13:30:20 -!- DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-147-87-138.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:30:31 puchacz: you meant (make-array '(9 9) :initial-contents '((1 ...) .. (8 ...))) ? 13:30:58 stassats`: probably, if I only had looked up docs then 13:31:13 what about my method specialisers, pls? 13:31:21 first I done this http://paste.lisp.org/display/80079 13:31:31 bombshelter13_ [n=greg@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:55 Merimac: can you paste the code for your printing function? 13:32:39 and secondly friend of mine gave this http://www.mibbit.com/pb/99XuFw but it not very nice ! 13:32:58 DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-147-87-138.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:21 with this in the main (empty-board tab) 13:35:18 lichtblau: did you perchance see the e-mail I sent to the plexippus-xpath-devel list? Or are you not the maintainer of that list? 13:36:12 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2E204.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:36:26 hhm.. or maybe I'm confused anyway, as I don't see your name on the plexippus-xpath page anyway... 13:37:59 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 13:39:10 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:03 disappearedng [n=disappea@unaffiliated/disappearedng] has joined #lisp 13:40:05 Hey everyone 13:40:28 I have some source code that is written in lisp which I need to run 13:40:30 sepult_ [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-25-96.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:40:48 it says that I should adjust my CLISP variable first 13:40:57 what should I adjust it to though? 13:41:11 ask the author of your code 13:41:27 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 13:42:09 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 13:43:17 maybe he means the name of your installed clisp program? 13:43:37 CLISP=/usr/bin/clisp or whatever 13:46:26 wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:01 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:49:27 alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:49 dooo [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:43 -!- dooo is now known as dto` 13:50:45 -!- reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Success] 13:51:15 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:53:04 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-60-75.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:31 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 13:54:39 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 13:55:32 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-73-218.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:57:08 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.232] has joined #lisp 13:57:12 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.10.18] has joined #lisp 13:58:36 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs181136249.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:59:40 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181136249.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:00:46 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs181136249.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 14:02:08 -!- wormhole [i=450f6c7d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-20a7b069c6a737d2] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 14:03:28 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:03:28 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-2-151-96.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:03:28 -!- gigamonkey` [n=user@adsl-99-2-151-96.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:03:36 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 14:04:50 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:04:52 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-169-83-88.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:01 gigamonkey` [n=user@adsl-99-169-83-88.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:47 carbocalm [n=user@204.101.159.235] has joined #lisp 14:06:27 -!- peddie [n=matthew@PEDDIE.MIT.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:07:04 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:07:11 peddie [n=matthew@PEDDIE.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 14:07:41 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 14:09:16 -!- ttt-- [n=ubuntu@78-23-124-196.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:10:02 -!- carbocalm [n=user@204.101.159.235] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:11:14 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087A3AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:19 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.10.18] has left #lisp 14:14:26 thijso: I'm a Plexippus XPath co-author and maintainer, but not the owner of the mailing list. (That's ivan4th.) 14:17:53 ok, right 14:18:16 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CEB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:51 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 14:19:11 I sent an e-mail for a patch to add the 'ends-with' xpath function (basically does the same as starts-with, but with both reversed) 14:20:03 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-112-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:30 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:21:38 I see, sounds useful. Don't know whether we have a policy for XPath 2.0 functions. Plexippus is 1.0, but we can add the functions as extensions. 14:21:52 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 14:22:08 (The XPath 2.0 functions are in a non-empty namespace http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions, right?) 14:22:21 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:23:15 weirdo [n=sthalik@c157-21.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:23:24 jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 14:23:38 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c157-21.icpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 14:24:51 jmbr [n=jmbr@110.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:25:02 I know jack about fork, and I haven't been able to figure it out with google. Is is safe to call (sb-ext:quit) from the child process after an (sb-posix:fork)? 14:25:22 well, doing so will cause the child process to exit... 14:25:28 I think that's what you intended 14:25:31 I get "CORRUPTION WARNING in SBCL pid" any time I try 14:25:48 and things get a bit screwy at that point 14:26:14 and the child PID never actually goes away 14:26:16 you need somebody who knows more about sbcl, I guess. I see what the warning is saying, but why sbcl cares, I don't understand. 14:26:50 perhaps you sohuld sb-posix:exit instead 14:27:00 you might see if there's a posix exit() function you can use instead of quit, but obviously it won't support whatever Lispy semantics quit has 14:27:06 ahh 14:27:46 say I want to wrap all errors signalled in some dynamic scope in a specific error type -- is there any disadvantage to using handler-bind rather than handler-case to grab them? (I'm trying to keep the stack trace intact) 14:27:47 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:01 Ogedei: no 14:28:16 pinterface1 [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:45 tritchey: works for me with SBCL 1.0.12.42 on Linux. 14:28:55 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-112-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:29:09 kpreid: cool. I was a bit uneasy about my handler interacting unfavourably with inner handlers, but it seems inner handlers go first 14:29:17 I tried (when (zerop (sb-posix:fork)) (sb-ext:quit)) in the REPL. Whats' your test case? 14:29:51 lichtblau: I'll try that - this is in the midst of some network handling stuff 14:30:12 lichtblau: ah, didn't even realise there *were* different xpath versions... 14:30:50 Do you call waitpid for the child? Otherwise it would be normal that it sticks around. 14:31:43 lichtblau: no I did not 14:31:50 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:32:01 I'd imagine potential issues if there are threads around before the fork, but I don't actually know any details, it's just a suspicion. 14:32:02 -!- jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:32:08 thanks - I will check that out 14:32:31 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 14:32:46 I was spinning off the server listener in its own thread before, and was getting a gc invariant in thread.c when I tried to quit out of the child 14:33:19 -!- dto` is now known as dto 14:33:25 this is OS X, btw 14:34:06 tritchey: don't fork if there are multiple threads 14:34:38 ahh 14:34:45 does swank use a thread? 14:34:59 -!- gigamonkey` [n=user@adsl-99-169-83-88.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:35:05 (although, come to think of it... starts-with *was* there already, so why not the reverse of that: ends-with?) ;) 14:35:07 tritchey: (sb-thread:list-all-threads) 14:35:38 mega1: he - thanks - I was just looking that up - I was used to using C-c t t 14:36:07 yep 14:36:08 tritchey: also see https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/310208 14:36:57 wow - bugtracking for SBCL - cool! 14:37:23 in my day all we had was BUGS, and we were glad to have it 14:38:56 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-158-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Success] 14:39:09 What system do you use for bugtracking? 14:39:58 younder: I was joking 14:39:59 sbcl threads on OS X have a lot of bugs still 14:40:18 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-140.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:41:12 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:35 younder: but in answer to your question, usually fogbugz 14:43:07 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-112-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:43:28 Launchpad brings the discussion to you: on one page you can see how the bug affects different communities, whether they're tracking the bug in Launchpad, Bugzilla, Trac, Sourceforge, or elsewhere. . 14:43:43 gotcha 14:45:37 -!- FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:45:37 durka42_ [n=durka@d115.mertza.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 14:45:43 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:46:16 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 14:46:26 -!- pinterface1 is now known as pinterface 14:46:37 -!- durka42_ [n=durka@d115.mertza.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 14:46:55 -!- chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:47:14 durka42_ [n=durka@d115.mertza.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 14:47:26 younder: you may want to look at redmine. I was quite impressed by it 14:48:34 Thanks, but I've rolled my own 14:48:42 carbocalm [n=user@204.101.159.235] has joined #lisp 14:51:06 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:51:31 -!- durka42_ is now known as durka42 14:53:21 That way I know what it does 14:53:49 younder: any information on it? 14:54:23 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d115.mertza.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:54:24 nop, it's not public domain. As least not of yet 14:54:54 But it is based mostly on bugzilla 14:54:54 younder: *any* information on it? (what's it written in, libraries you used to connect it to a VCS, interconnections, ...) 14:55:24 later... 14:55:27 ah, it's only a bugtracker :) 14:55:55 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:02 good luck with it in any case 14:56:28 yes, and in alpha so rather than jump the gun I Think I will sit on it to it's more stable. 14:56:53 I got burned on premature release once before. 14:57:18 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-112-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:57:37 google ruined the words alpha and beta 14:57:48 web 2.0 ruined beta 14:58:51 attila_lendvai: ping 14:59:12 kami-: pong 14:59:35 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:59:43 attila_lendvai: what is the prereq to use the disjunct-set ptype in cl-perec? 15:00:40 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-60-139.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["« La POO c'est bien beau, mais en C au moins on va droit au but. »"] 15:00:49 how does cl-perec define 'disjunct' if the elements are other entities? 15:01:02 p-eq ? 15:02:07 kami-: a disjunct-set is basically the 1 side of an 1-n association. the rdbms mapping is a foreign key, so if you update the row... that's why it's a disjunct-set: an instance can only be in one such set, just like in an 1-n association 15:02:17 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:03:33 -!- ASau` [n=user@host13-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Off!"] 15:03:34 attila_lendvai: ah, ok. I misunderstood. 15:03:41 we don't use it much, though, because it's not any cheaper than an 1-n association... 15:04:13 attila_lendvai: yes, I also got used to using ordinary associations, as you recommended 15:04:17 but when modelling there are certain situation where the other direction of the association doesn't make much sense 15:05:05 attila_lendvai: yes, when the other side is like a ValueObject in Domain Driven Design 15:05:18 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-112-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:05:32 lichtblau: I can confirm your test case works if there are no threads (such as swank) running, but falls over otherwise on OS X 15:05:53 attila_lendvai: (how) does caching in cl-perec work if there are multiple lisps accessing the same database? 15:06:35 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 15:08:10 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 15:08:21 lichtblau: there's no inter-lisp-vm cache flushing if that's what you are looking for. each with-transaction block has its own cache, and there's no global cache (although it's easy to hack in this and that as we did for a few often read, rarely written stuff) 15:09:31 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-158-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:10:06 -!- wasabi___ [n=wasabi@nttkyo505105.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-11365: SIGTERM received; exit"] 15:10:30 wasabi [n=wasabi@nttkyo505105.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:10:30 -!- wasabi [n=wasabi@nttkyo505105.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 15:10:45 wasabi [n=wasabi@nttkyo505105.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:10:59 attila_lendvai: thanks, sounds promising 15:11:47 ejs [n=eugen@218-49-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:53 *lichtblau* needs to get rid of the last remaining bits of naive caching code that stops the software from scaling to more than one web server 15:12:27 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@78-1-150-6.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:13:08 most of our optimization sessions were spent on the lisp code. postgres was just simply fast enough for everything we have thrown at it... 15:13:30 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.244.200] has joined #lisp 15:16:08 We didn't actually have speed issues, IIRC. The problematic code owes to the fact that it started with Versant, an OODBMS, and then mutated into an SQL-based thing. 15:17:24 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@nttkyo1000205.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:19:26 -!- carbocalm [n=user@204.101.159.235] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:21:27 cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.243.163] has joined #lisp 15:21:38 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:21:44 Good evening. 15:21:57 Evening beach. 15:22:28 gigamonkey: Ah, good reminder. I'll look at your thing now. 15:22:42 Cool. 15:23:54 Service Temporarily Unavailable. 15:24:40 @#$#@ 15:24:42 Hang on. 15:24:53 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:25:39 Mmmm. SBCL fell over for some reason. 15:25:44 On moment. 15:25:49 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-218-12.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 15:26:02 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:26:31 gigamonkey: which version of sbcl are you running? 15:26:56 Try now. 15:27:02 attila_lendvai: some oldish one. 15:27:06 Hello all 15:27:14 there were many stability fixes in the last month 15:27:14 gigamonkey: works now. 15:27:18 hello cornucopic 15:27:19 attila_lendvai: 1.0.19 15:27:27 beach: good. 15:27:30 or make that last two 15:27:50 Hi beach 15:28:55 more like three 15:29:06 anyway, it's bullet proof now 15:29:31 attila_lendvai: yeah. Once I get my book turned in to Apress I'll do a little sysadmin housekeeping. 15:29:32 not even a single hunchentoot stress test can knock it over 15:30:05 mega1: I can still knock over my hunchentoot, but only with sb-ext:run-program. garden variety stuff seems more stable. 15:30:10 yep, mega did a marvelous job hunting down threding related issues 15:30:24 and this is on freebsd. i'm working on trying to see if the run-program thing is stable on linux 15:30:57 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 15:32:36 slyrus: this is with 1.0.28 or later? 15:32:56 -!- wasabi [n=wasabi@nttkyo505105.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:33:03 ok, I cheated :) 1.0.27.42. 15:33:14 i'll try the latest. 15:33:41 wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-144-151.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:02 *slyrus* is loving all of this new disk space :) 15:34:12 well, the relevant commit is 1.0.27.39 and HEAD does not compile usocket 15:34:24 ah, I see... 15:34:30 *younder* has 320 Gb but only 160 Gb for Linux 15:35:10 slyrus: don't worry, it'll be full soon. 15:35:23 gigamonkey: yeah, I know what you mean! 15:36:03 there should be a law of that disk space issue 15:36:34 my 260Gb home is almost full :/ 15:36:46 haven't had issues, though 15:37:09 is there a syscall for querying the protection status of a page? 15:37:09 i have all this useless stuff lying around that i can delete 15:37:32 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 15:38:14 1.2TB here, too lazy to setup the raid configuration, so in the wait for that, it's getting somewhat full too 15:38:15 madnificent: there's one: disk usage will always expand as to fill 100% of the available space. 15:38:33 matimago: the world is in place again 15:39:09 http://www.murphys-laws.com/murphy/murphy-computer.html 15:39:27 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.232] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:39:53 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:23 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:40:23 -!- jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:40:28 matimago: but most of those laws are just frustration, not something that's 'true' in any sense :( The disk thing happens to virtually everyone 15:41:05 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 15:41:19 If it's true statistically, what more do you need? 15:41:43 -!- jobf [n=jbf@c80-216-238-151.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:42:04 Is it true Statistically? 15:43:02 any given program will expand to fill all the available memory... that's not necessarily true (and so on:) 15:43:31 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@nttkyo1000205.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:43:36 The number of bugs always exceed the number of lines in the program.. 15:43:47 Not in mine.. 15:44:02 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 15:44:06 at work, my disk is 97% full. At home, i've got disks full at: 69%, 77%, 83%, 92%, 98%, 99%, and 100%. Plus too small disks (1/10 the size of the other) at only 33% and 35%. 15:44:37 If I hadn't to pay the taxes these months, I'd have bought a terabyte... 15:44:45 Statistically it shoud be about 5000 erors per 100000 lines. 15:45:11 errors 15:45:32 I guess your code is too verbose, then. 15:45:32 foom, memo from deepfire: I have finally added the directory lister for the waterfall binaries. I think we can announce the whole thing now. 15:48:27 What's waterfall foom? 15:54:25 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 15:54:51 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@87.236.135.147] has quit ["this is not a quit message"] 15:55:17 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@nttkyo1000205.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:55:41 never mind 15:56:06 benny99 [n=benny@p5486DB0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:27 ttt-- [n=ubuntu@78-23-124-196.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 15:56:45 r00t_ [n=r00t@115.241.42.232] has joined #lisp 16:00:31 salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has joined #lisp 16:01:49 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 16:05:34 -!- Merimac [i=5bcfd14d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7f21cc4ad216eb19] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 16:07:25 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.243.163] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:07:42 -!- r00t_ is now known as cornucopic 16:09:10 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:09:53 DarkRavin_ [n=thedarkr@adsl-4-34-139.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:45 segyr [n=segyr@241.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 16:11:22 Hun [n=Hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:12:44 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 16:12:48 -!- DarkRavin_ [n=thedarkr@adsl-4-34-139.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:13:12 rjack_ [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 16:13:25 -!- rjack_ [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit [Client Quit] 16:14:44 -!- DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-147-87-138.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:15:35 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:15:47 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:31 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 16:18:04 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:19:49 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:19:53 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-155-65.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:20:59 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 16:21:11 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-112-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:21:28 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:23:43 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:42 OberWrk [n=user@32.97.110.63] has joined #lisp 16:28:00 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-31f69bd09eb5a1be] has joined #lisp 16:28:38 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 16:29:16 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:31:30 DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-4-34-139.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:32 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:31:40 danlei [n=user@pD9E2D054.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:58 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 16:34:24 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:36:25 lichtblau: may I ask why you switched from Versant to an SQL backend? 16:37:33 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 16:39:16 deylen [n=deylen@78-105-248-164.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:39:22 -!- segyr [n=segyr@241.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has quit [] 16:39:29 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:40:15 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:40:44 Is there any way I can specify the type of argument to be passed to a function? (defun foo ((x string))) ? 16:40:50 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.42.232] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:42:26 (defun fooo (x) (declare (string x)) ..) 16:43:02 deylen: (defun foo (x) (check-type x 'string) ...) 16:43:33 Also, (defmethod foo ((x string)) ...) 16:43:41 that's not a function :D 16:44:19 (check-type x string) ? 16:44:46 stassats`: it's a type assertion 16:44:46 Ok thanks for all the answers, I was thinking in the argument list but this will work just as well :) 16:45:01 bulibuta [n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has joined #lisp 16:45:16 stassats`: but Python will happily process it as a type declaration too 16:45:48 dlowe: well, i was saying that check-type is a macro and doesn't evaluate type argument 16:46:03 stassats`: oh, right. my error. 16:46:22 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@131.31ec54.tvnetwork.hu] has quit ["..."] 16:46:29 rey_ [i=pdewacht@igwe11.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 16:46:32 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-158-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:46:36 UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:47 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:48 joshe [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 16:49:46 -!- deylen [n=deylen@78-105-248-164.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 16:55:29 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:55:50 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 16:56:20 dlowe: It doesn't process it like type declaration. More like (locally (declare (type x string)) ...) 16:56:43 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit ["Be back later"] 16:56:44 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:57:59 I mean not like a bound type declaration 17:03:17 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 17:05:11 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:05:47 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 17:06:11 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:06:38 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-167-159.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:06:53 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-167-159.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:06 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:37 mogunus [n=user@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:44 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:12:56 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@34-45.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 17:13:21 borsman [n=quassel@76.177.217.216] has joined #lisp 17:13:34 spooneybarger [n=spooneyb@cpe-74-73-111-254.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:37 -!- spooneybarger [n=spooneyb@cpe-74-73-111-254.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:14:44 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@85.48.202.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:17:15 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 17:19:36 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:21:30 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 17:23:31 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:29:01 mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has joined #lisp 17:30:53 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 17:31:38 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:31:48 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 17:34:18 milanj [n=milan@79.101.137.217] has joined #lisp 17:35:16 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[away] 17:41:51 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-78.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 17:44:35 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:47:25 -!- borsman [n=quassel@76.177.217.216] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:47:46 borsman [n=quassel@76.177.217.216] has joined #lisp 17:51:13 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:53:06 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:54:47 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 18:01:52 segyr [n=segyr@241.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 18:02:33 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-197-248.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:03:37 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-19-130.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:26 -!- Hun [n=Hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:10:19 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17EF57.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:28 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17EF57.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:10:37 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 18:10:40 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:10:53 amnesiac_ [n=amnesiac@charanda.shochu.sandino.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:56 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:13:52 -!- mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has quit ["zzz"] 18:16:44 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-ce3948e8dbfbca4c] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:17:32 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:58 Hun [n=Hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:13 slashus2 [n=dex@74-141-105-89.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:23 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:27:55 -!- benny99 [n=benny@p5486DB0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:28:07 -!- pjb [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:31:38 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:17 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-169-83-88.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:46 -!- younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has left #lisp 18:35:51 pjb [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:02 younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 18:37:19 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:22 Woohooo! Coders at Work is now chopped down to 484 pages. Only 38% over what Apress wants but I'm calling it almost done! 18:38:32 Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:39:01 heh, they want a limit on the number of pages? 18:39:09 lichtblau: You once said you'd like a REPL where SLDB is integrated in the repl (basically clim-style); I think that's technically feasible on recent versions of Emacs. 18:39:14 Another book on the way Peter? 18:39:23 albino: well, books are usually finite in length. 18:39:28 well 500 pages are a lot to read 18:39:39 depends on the interest of the reader 18:39:40 younder: yup. http://www.codersatwork.com/ 18:39:47 albino: and how dry the subject is 18:39:54 is it about c++ 18:40:28 was this from here? it's about tech publishing, gigamonk` probably doesn't need a refresher ;) http://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/dead-trees/story 18:40:34 rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-dfbfb5fd4fadf1a8] has joined #lisp 18:40:44 gigamonk`: You'll be able to convince them. There is no redundancy in there. 18:41:19 beach: plus, they wanted it like two years ago. So hopefully their desire to *have* it will outweigh whatever interest they had in having it be 350 pages. 18:41:50 gigamonk`: Possibly, though if you get in trouble, tell them to call me :) 18:42:58 gigamonk`: At least I find the interactions that I have read so far, totally loaded with information, and I wouldn't want them to be left out. 18:42:59 *gigamonk`* feels tough; beach has got his back 18:43:01 gigamonk`: I see a few of my favorite programmers on that list.. Should be interesting. 18:43:44 gigamonk`: My opinion might not count with Apress, but in case it does, don't hesitate to bring it up. 18:43:55 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 18:48:42 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:48:45 gigamonkey: It seems a bit lisp inspired though.. I see Guy Steele, Peter Norvig for instance. I like the Haskell bit as well. And of cource my 'mentor' Donald Knuth'. (Yes I have looked into fortersss the FORTRAN replacement. Guy Steele.) 18:50:01 -!- younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has left #lisp 18:50:05 younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 18:50:23 younder: yeah, there's a bit of that. Though I tried to avoid having it be too Lispy. 18:50:41 Plus, we've disowned Norvig, haven't we. 18:50:59 why 18:51:13 because he says nice things about Python. 18:51:18 Not me. PAIP lives forever.. 18:51:37 *gigamonk`* takes tounge out of cheek 18:52:23 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:54:35 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 18:54:43 And I still sometimes study the luv_slides for good lisp style from norwig.com. 18:54:55 norvig 18:55:14 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:56:16 Why Erlang instead of Oz? 18:56:43 You mean why Armstrong instead of some Oz hacker? 18:56:57 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:56:59 yes 18:58:12 Dunno. Erlang has been a bit "in the news" these days. 18:58:29 I only know Oz exists and not much more. 18:58:59 Just out of curiosity, what Oz hacker would you have liked to have heard from? 18:59:53 gigamonk`: Gert Smolka 19:01:20 Hmmm. He never even made it onto my master list http://www.codersatwork.com/names.html?order=popularity 19:01:34 Peter Van Roy did, but never made it very far up to the top. 19:03:05 Anyhow one distributed proccessing language is probaly enough. 19:04:17 tombom_ [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 19:04:48 48 Erik Naggum :) 19:05:26 Yeah, the master list was definitely Lisp-biased. 19:06:23 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:06:41 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-16-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:06:49 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 19:07:11 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-16-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:09:07 hmm.. Mozart/Oz looks interesting 19:10:44 mop slot-boundp-using-class 19:10:54 specbot: mop 19:11:08 amop slot-boundp-using-class 19:11:16 *sigh* 19:12:29 segyr_ [n=segyr@241.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 19:12:53 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-140.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 19:13:20 metawilm [n=willem@g225097072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:47 http://www.lisp.org/mop/index.html 19:15:14 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.236.246] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:17:36 -!- segyr_ [n=segyr@241.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has quit [Client Quit] 19:17:40 Or better yet. Get The Art of Metaboject protocol. 19:17:44 -!- ttt-- [n=ubuntu@78-23-124-196.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:17:44 also, l1sp.org has a mop redirect 19:18:07 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 19:18:49 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-57-175.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:20:15 tcr: cool. -- I wasn't aware that older versions of emacs didn't support it, and just assumed that it's a SMOP nobody had done. So what has changed? 19:21:06 -!- segyr [n=segyr@241.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:21:47 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has quit [] 19:21:52 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:21:53 -!- tombom_ is now known as tombom 19:22:16 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:23:04 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:23:52 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 19:24:58 psheldr [n=user@p5B03AE1C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:11 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:25:11 lichtblau: I just found out that you can attach arbitrary keymaps to certain region in a buffer. I don't know how far that capability goes back 19:28:36 Ok I must be dense: 19:28:39 (loop for superclass in (sb-mop:class-direct-superclasses class) appending (all-superclasses superclass)) 19:28:50 why does this always return NIL? 19:29:59 keymaps to buffer regions? that sounds awful 19:30:11 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 19:32:02 kanzure- [i=bryan@dhcp-84-36.me.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 19:32:12 tcr: What's your inheritence tree? 19:32:20 s/tree/graph/ 19:32:22 Hello. I was wondering how to use clisp to compile a project. I've tried "clisp -C" but it doesn't generate a binary. What's up? 19:32:43 nyef: (class-of 1) 19:33:02 nyef: When I add "do (print superclass)" it actually prints classes 19:33:12 kanzure-: You can't generate a binary from clisp. 19:33:19 must be something bogus about the LOOP, I'm really perplexed by this 19:33:36 tcr: What are the superclasses of the superclass? 19:34:05 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 19:34:32 However you can produce a executable http://clisp.cons.org/impnotes/quickstart.html 19:34:37 What do you mean? 19:34:57 You print superclass, but you collect its superclasses? 19:35:35 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-16-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:35:42 kanzure-: did you chmod +x ? 19:35:49 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-085-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:50 nyef: Oh right I forgot to actually collect the current superclass 19:36:23 thanks! (and hi!, btw) 19:36:25 And what's "all-superclasses"? 19:36:37 younder: Hm. Nevermind. I need to figure out first how to include some other files .. any ideas? In the script I use (load), but apparently those files aren't included in the compilation. 19:36:38 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:37:17 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:17 nyef: Oh that was a recursive call 19:37:33 Ah. Which would explain the less than useful results. 19:37:54 kanzure-: http://clisp.cons.org/impnotes/image.html 19:40:20 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:40:29 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 19:41:55 -!- DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-4-34-139.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:42:46 _Cactus_ [n=cactus@client-51.radio-net.hu] has joined #lisp 19:42:47 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:42:54 DarkRavin [n=thedarkr@adsl-4-34-139.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:11 <_Cactus_> hi 19:43:26 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 19:46:07 <_Cactus_> I'm looking for options to display a clickable graph. my ideas so far have been: 1. use graphviz's SVG output, then render it with librsvg to a GTK+ window (wrapped by clg) 2. use graphviz's SVG output, generate hyperlinks into the nodes, display it in an embedded Gecko window, and handle url requests 19:46:18 <_Cactus_> (is there a gecko library for CL?) 19:46:37 Tried the tree library in McClim? 19:47:08 _Cactus_: Oh. You want it on a web page. 19:47:12 <_Cactus_> no 19:47:19 <_Cactus_> I want it in an interactive application 19:47:23 _Cactus_: no, there isnt' one 19:47:41 <_Cactus_> younder, it's not a tree I want to display, it's a graph containing cycles 19:47:57 sigh 19:48:05 froydnj: keymaps to buffer regions seems potentially useful. 19:49:18 <_Cactus_> also, is the clg project alive enough? 19:50:07 gigamonk`: oh, it does; potentially quite confusing, though 19:50:10 -!- bob_f [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:50:37 <_Cactus_> younder, is mcclim any good at all? it looks rather dated compared to gtk+ (talking purely about asthetics here) 19:50:39 _Cactus_: I don't know what to recommend, but whatever you're able to hack up, I'd be interested in it. 19:50:51 cirquitz [n=cirquitz@59.164.145.67] has joined #lisp 19:51:12 _Cactus_: Perhaps your best bet would be a web application 19:51:30 brb 19:51:33 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:51:55 _Cactus_: better than it's reputation 19:52:12 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:52:22 Ran the full load of tests just yesterday 19:52:39 or was it saturday 19:52:57 don't forget Qt! 19:53:10 Why not? Qt is so forgettable. 19:53:59 <_Cactus_> tcr: i'd hate to make it a web app just because gui libraries seem to be lacking for lisp 19:54:42 What's the best way to find out the "home" class of a slot? At the moment I grovel over all superclasses of the class the slot is direct-slot of, and basically compare the slot with each of the direct-slots of the superclasses 19:55:02 Qt is good and was developed by troll a Norwegian software company, but it has impalatable distribution polecies that can cost you a great deal of money 19:55:10 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:13 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:55:23 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 19:55:31 policies 19:55:54 younder: no longer 19:56:02 That's true 19:56:13 The stigma will stick for a while, though. 19:56:56 <_Cactus_> is Cello worth a look? 19:56:59 w/act 19:57:12 p_i: What is the new deal with Qt? 19:57:24 *p_l* recalls that he *never* got anything that was based on Cells to work 19:57:27 younder: LGPL 19:57:46 _Cactus_: It probably won't compile. 19:57:52 tcr: since direct-slotds get mixed together into the effective slotd, there isn't really a home class in general. what do you need that concept for? 19:57:54 younder: So basically no-problem wrt. commercial work 19:58:04 sweet 19:58:28 lichtblau: I want to group slots in the inspector by their home class (optionally) 19:58:30 younder: the deal comes into act with 4.5, so be careful of older versions 19:58:53 <_Cactus_> OK. suppose I go the web route. any web frameworks I should check out? (I've never done any web app development before) 19:59:09 _Cactus_: huncentoot 19:59:29 lichtblau: So I can see where slots come from. I find that information valuable when being confronted with a foreign source base and you're trying to get a picture into your head 19:59:47 jao [n=jao@33.Red-83-39-134.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:15 _Cactus_: of frameworks, there's UBW and assorted ROTFLMAO stack (no joke), symbolicWeb and a bunch of others, plus option of directly writing your stuff for Hunchentoot, which should work quite well too 20:01:25 _Cactus_: You have sold your soul. 20:01:42 _Cactus_: Also, Web doesn't work for everything ;_; 20:03:53 with DHTML you would be suppised what you can do, study weblocks 20:03:55 tcr: so, find the dslotd highest up in the hierarchy (according to the cpl) with the slot's name? 20:04:16 suprised 20:04:45 lichtblau: "highest"? 20:04:59 buildt on top of hunchentoot 20:05:26 lichtblau: I think slots get overwritten, don't they? Shouldn't it be the "first", not "highest"? 20:05:42 younder: I'm thinking about the fact that webapps aren't necessarily the solution for everything :) 20:05:53 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-140.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 20:06:01 and in my recommendation, change symbolicweb to weblocks - I mixed up :) 20:06:35 merged, not overwritten. i.e., the metaclass decides what to do when individual options conflict between classes. 20:06:50 :initform would get overwritten, but :initarg merged, etc. 20:07:36 _Cactus_: with Qt, you could choose between hand-drawn and web stuff on a case-by-case basis, since it already includes Webkit 20:08:08 lichtblau: I see, so it's highest. 20:08:39 and highest means grovelling through (reverse (class-precedence-list class)), right? 20:10:06 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:17:33 there's now qt 4.5 bindings 20:17:36 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-49-103.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:17:37 minion: commonqt 20:17:37 commonqt: a Common Lisp binding to the smoke library for Qt. http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ 20:18:30 How do C++ and Lisp mix ? 20:18:53 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:19:01 libsmoke is a dynamic binding library that kde made to bind stuff to all kinds of languages 20:19:01 In the case of Qt? 20:19:19 I wonder how commonqt and cl-smoke differ. 20:19:32 foom: only in details 20:19:52 minion: cl-smoke 20:19:53 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``cl-smoke''. 20:19:58 and in minion :( 20:20:11 Traditionally it has been frown with difficulty. 20:20:14 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:20:24 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 20:22:17 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [] 20:22:28 http://tobias.rautenkranz.ch/lisp/cl-smoke 20:22:51 *lichtblau* needs to update the commonqt homepage to point at the right branch, mention windows support, etc. 20:23:02 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 20:23:49 looks like cl-smoke has clos stuff too, commonqt is all autogenerated and mainly interfaces through reader macros 20:24:30 psi [n=psi@c-49e9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:24:32 yeah, although it'd put that as "cl-smoke uses clos autogeneration", "commonqt is free of autogeneration" 20:24:36 Schmidt [i=lsc@c193-150-248-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:24:44 That's some sorce I've go to have, even if I don't use it the methodology for acccessing C++ would be worth something. 20:24:47 lichtblau: You're working with allegro, right? 20:25:24 The only plan that really makes sense is to make them sufficiently API-compatible that cl-smoke can be used with commonqt's reader macro, and conversely, commonqt with the clos stuff. 20:25:31 tcr: for which project? 20:25:42 -!- ejs [n=eugen@218-49-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:25:59 -!- cirquitz [n=cirquitz@59.164.145.67] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:26:23 the one part that seems possibly scary in back-and-forth, is cl-smoke saying: "and a leading uppercase K or Q is removed." in symbol conversion 20:26:34 lichtblau: I thought at your work. Earlier today I committed a fix to allegro's swank backend so the swank related cruft won't show up in backtraces (for the common cases) 20:26:35 I understand why though 20:26:42 -!- ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-69-209-223-0.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20:27:51 tcr: yeah, we use allegro with slime these days. I don't update regularly, but I'd be glad to "cvs up" to test things if there's anything new and exciting to try. 20:29:08 I'm currently working on the inspector for standard-objects, perhaps you'll like the result. It's not finished yet. I'll blog about with screenshots when it's ready! 20:29:09 ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-76-223-66-85.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:35 -!- _Cactus_ [n=cactus@client-51.radio-net.hu] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:30:15 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:30:25 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 20:31:43 lichtblau: I'm told that foreign calls block the Lisp world on Allegro, do you know why? 20:32:04 -!- psi [n=psi@c-49e9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["leaving"] 20:32:20 only on Linux and Unix platforms, because they have userland threads there. 20:32:20 hm allegro only had green threads, or some such? 20:32:27 ah right 20:32:53 on windows, they don't do SMP for correctness reasons, but have native threads, and don't block on foreign calls. 20:33:03 ejs [n=eugen@218-49-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:05 psi [n=psi@c-49e9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:33:50 -!- psi [n=psi@c-49e9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 20:34:25 -!- psheldr [n=user@p5B03AE1C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:34:28 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@ip1772.pool2.wireless.lu.se] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:35:05 lichtblau: ? 20:35:42 Don't do SMP? 20:35:51 I don't follow. 20:35:52 native threads w/o smp? 20:36:29 You mean AllegroCL? 20:38:40 Cuz the kernel does. 20:39:18 younder: your jokes get funnier every day 20:40:32 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:40:42 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 20:41:01 see "Microsoft Windows Internals" http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/Books/6710.aspx 20:41:05 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:21 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 20:42:05 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 20:43:19 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:43:29 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 20:43:46 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 20:44:23 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:47:33 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 20:48:13 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-140.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 20:48:16 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-19-130.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:48:36 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-19-130.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:54 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-112-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:50:45 anyone using slime and sbcl on windows? when i start slime it seems to work but i don't get the slime repl. anyone know why? 20:51:06 hmm? ACL doesn't do native threads? 20:51:21 the repl is a contrib 20:51:31 you have to load slime-fancy or slime-repl 20:51:34 p_l: that's right 20:51:45 no native lisp threads, at least 20:52:16 p_l: I didn't say that. I said it can just run all threads on one processor. 20:52:21 so.. what does native threads on SPARC64 Solaris? 20:53:28 works great 20:53:38 many thanks. 20:53:49 n'p 20:54:00 beach: herep 20:54:16 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-19-130.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:54:24 p_l: They have yet to implement a GC that is efficent across processors. See previous Duane Retting post's on the topic in comp.lang.lisp 20:54:36 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-19-130.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:56 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:54:57 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-6.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:55:01 klausi: You might also find http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/article-drafts/sbcl-win32-slime-and-cygwin-emacs.txt of interest, even if you're not using cygwin emacs. Just take it with a grain of salt, it's needed updating for a while. 20:55:19 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:55:29 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 20:55:31 Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-19-130.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:55 antifuchs: That is wrong. 20:57:14 younder: fantastic! 20:57:15 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 20:57:28 nyef, thanks i'll take a look 20:57:38 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-19-130.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:14 younder: so you have no clue what Allegro does where, but suddenly you know better what Duane is working on than everybody else? 20:59:36 maybe younder was hired by franz? 20:59:41 comp.lang.lisp 20:59:47 *antifuchs* giggles 21:00:10 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:04:42 http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2007-11/msg00735.html 21:04:59 *p_l* gives up looking for said post after wading through tons of disputes about Clojure and certain fellow with A.T. initials 21:05:03 jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 21:06:29 see ;) 21:06:59 yeah, and where in his followup is GC mentioned as the main problem? 21:08:56 The machine was a Sequent 386-based multiple-processor system, and we 21:08:56 used several tricks to make use of the multiple processors, like hash 21:08:56 tables for global-symbol lookups (I guess you could say that this was 21:08:56 the precursor to wide-binding) and also objects called "futures", for communicating between threads. 21:09:05 that bit 21:10:33 Don' make me paste again. 21:11:01 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-19-130.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:11:04 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:33 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-19-130.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:11:34 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:11:42 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-19-130.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:15:30 -!- slashus2 [n=dex@74-141-105-89.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [] 21:17:02 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 21:18:52 -!- metawilm [n=willem@g225097072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 21:18:55 Hmmm. Does anyone here know to create a URL equivalent to submitting an "I'm Feeling Lucky" search to Google? 21:19:20 Something like &btnYes=true maybe? 21:20:03 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 21:20:19 Ah, &btnI=1 does the trick. Thanks. 21:20:20 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:20:30 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 21:20:45 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:21:06 chris2_ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-210-003.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:47 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 21:22:54 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 21:24:00 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:24:35 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4775.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:24:56 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 21:27:07 -!- ejs [n=eugen@218-49-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:27:13 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [] 21:27:59 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 21:28:58 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 -!- projections_ [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has left #lisp 21:29:40 ejs [n=eugen@218-49-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:46 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [Client Quit] 21:31:39 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-085-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:33:26 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:33:40 so perhaps some clue :) 21:34:34 is there any way to do methods such as (defmethod test ((arg (eq (or 1 2))))) without having to make a methods for 1 and 2? 21:35:22 no ,eq spesializers work with one argument 21:35:27 alright 21:36:53 -!- ejs [n=eugen@218-49-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:37:33 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:37:51 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:38:56 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-200-37.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:22 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:40:32 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 21:41:12 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit ["the old ways are lost"] 21:41:55 mornfall [n=mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 21:43:40 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:43:50 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 21:43:58 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 21:47:49 *hefner* can't crash SBCL 1.0.28.27 with run-program. =( 21:48:10 -!- delqna [n=delqna@ABordeaux-158-1-25-228.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:48:21 hefner: And this is sad... why? 21:48:40 I don't like surprises. 21:48:53 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-158-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:49:50 *_3b* wonders if anyone noticed how slow the gl3 branch of cl-opengl is/was 21:49:57 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [] 21:50:29 *hefner* wonders if anyone has an implementation of gl3 21:50:34 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 21:50:37 *_3b* does 21:50:53 <_3b> nvidia and ati/amd are both shipping gl3 drivers as far as i know 21:51:06 <_3b> nvidia even has 3.1 beta drivers out 21:51:54 <_3b> this particular slowdown applies even when using earlier version of GL though, if you have the automatic error checking on in cl-opengl 21:52:13 I didn't know it had automatic error checking. What a terrible idea. 21:52:33 <_3b> it does in the branch, and it is very useful 21:53:10 <_3b> not completely happy with the way it is enabled/disabled though :( 21:53:35 In the underlying implementation, is it most plausible that a thrown condition results in a linear search for an associated handler? 21:55:25 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:55:31 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:55:36 Modius: More or less, yes. ISTR that SBCL binds a special variable to a list of condition-class-name/handler pairs in handler-bind. 21:56:10 And, of course, handler-case is implemented in terms of handler-bind. 21:56:18 So, yes, linear search. 21:56:33 Now, a "clever" implementation might do a stack-walk instead. 21:56:44 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.137.217] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:57:21 But that's still a linear search, just linear on stack frames rather than interviening handlers. 21:57:36 sb-kernel:*handler-clusters* 21:57:51 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 21:59:48 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:03 Okay, so it's a list of lists of condition-class / handler pairs. 22:02:25 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:02:42 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:48 a alist that can be accessed by assoc.. 22:05:55 Remember thr cdr point's to the next element not the next element of the list. This is the nature of CONS cell's. 22:06:19 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:06:42 whom are you talking to? 22:07:49 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-103-164.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:10:14 -!- nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving the office."] 22:11:10 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:12:21 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:13:56 -!- younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:13:59 <_3b> wonder what i did to break sb-sprof, was working a few minutes ago :/ 22:14:14 younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has joined #lisp 22:14:30 benny` [n=benny@i577A0517.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:14:50 _3b: whether it works or not is not deterministic 22:15:20 <_3b> well, seems pretty determinstic now 22:16:40 <_3b> seems to confuse emacs or slime a bit in the process as well 22:18:04 -!- sepult_ [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-25-96.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:18:35 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CEB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:18:42 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-115.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:18:44 alec_ [n=alec@pool-96-237-2-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:54 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:20:26 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 22:25:10 chessguy [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:04 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 22:28:25 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:28:57 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=greg@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 22:29:14 -!- Hun [n=Hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:29:23 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A11DB.versanet.de] has quit [Success] 22:30:12 -!- OberWrk [n=user@32.97.110.63] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:31:18 Maneta [n=daniel@77.228.135.212] has joined #lisp 22:31:22 saikat [n=saikat@67.180.9.222] has joined #lisp 22:31:27 projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 22:33:40 anyone knows a good web with documention for noobies in lisp? 22:34:35 minion: pcl? 22:34:36 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 22:35:32 minion: paip? 22:35:32 paip: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/paip 22:35:37 tkz minion 22:36:03 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-158-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:36:19 mjf [n=mjf@r3a98.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 22:36:58 minion is a web bot 22:37:29 "web"? 22:37:31 minion: are you a bot? 22:37:31 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 22:37:38 younder: see! you lied! 22:37:46 rlol 22:37:57 minion: chant 22:37:57 MORE OR LESS 22:39:09 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 22:40:42 :D 22:41:14 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:41:24 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 22:42:14 _death [n=death@bzq-84-110-253-158.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:01 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:44:11 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 22:46:07 Where is crystof when we need him? 22:46:19 ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 22:46:28 s/c/K/ 22:46:45 <_death> looks like `sb-unix:unix-fast-select' is broken in latest sbcl, cause may be 1.0.28.34 :/ 22:47:33 argh! report.. 22:49:09 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:49:21 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 22:52:45 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:09 -!- chris2_ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-210-003.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:54:33 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.147.206] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:01:10 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:01:52 HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 23:04:20 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 23:06:41 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:11:01 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:11:34 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:11:38 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:54 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:00 anyone here? 23:23:19 no. shush. 23:25:04 -!- younder [n=jthing@212.251.244.254] has left #lisp 23:26:54 sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has joined #lisp 23:27:10 is there an equivalent of ~a that doesn't ever insert newlines? 23:28:04 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@149-234-40.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:28:27 does ~a insert newlines? 23:29:03 yea, if it's long 23:29:31 I think it's aiming for the 80 character limit 23:30:00 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-80.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:30:56 (let (*print-pretty*) (format t "~a" ...)) ? 23:32:59 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:33:39 lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-234-40.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 23:34:09 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:34:42 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:35:15 that worked, thanks 23:37:37 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-80.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:38:14 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:41:23 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:41:33 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 23:44:23 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r3a98.net.upc.cz] has quit ["dew on the telephone lines"] 23:52:55 shiretoko [n=shiretok@69-89-178-142.ssi-pci.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:34 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:54:31 -!- benny` is now known as benny 23:55:28 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:57:56 -!- _death [n=death@bzq-84-110-253-158.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]