00:00:02 then there's my favorite CLISPism, "*** - READ-CHAR-SEQUENCE: Invalid byte #xE9 in CHARSET:ASCII conversion", which it used to greet me with, unprovoked, every time I started it. 00:00:45 jao`_ [n=jao@83.36.221.80] has joined #lisp 00:00:54 *nyef* sighs. 00:01:03 hefner: #xE9 is not a valid ASCII code point 00:01:22 who appointed it the ascii czar? 00:01:24 My best guess on this bug at the moment is that subtypep doesn't work properly at the point in cold-init where it needs to. 00:01:41 hefner: SBCL would complain too, if it were asked. 00:02:01 nyef: right. I haven't found the equivalent of :external-format :latin1 in CLISP yet, but I'm working on that. 00:02:25 Maybe it's called "use flexi-streams"? 00:02:26 hefner: either set your locale correctly, or pass the right -E option, or set it in ~/.clisprc, or set it in :external-format option. 00:02:41 hefner: :external-format charset:iso-8859-1 00:02:50 hefner: or -E iso-8859-1 00:03:18 hefner: or (setf custom:*DEFAULT-FILE-ENCODING* charset:iso-8859-1) 00:03:32 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-219-182.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 00:04:01 (actually, -E sets all the encodings, you might want different encodings for file contents, terminal, file names, etc: -Efile iso-8859-1 ; man clisp) 00:04:23 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250028.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit ["Instain to the do way"] 00:04:27 -!- jao [n=jao@123.Red-79-155-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:04:43 Thanks, that fixes it. Now I can sit back and relax as it spends the next several minutes doing what SBCL finishes in a couple seconds. 00:05:28 hefner: compile to byte code? Activate the JIT compiler? Make the best of your time? 00:05:32 -!- jao`_ [n=jao@83.36.221.80] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:06:18 oh, right. I haven't typed (load (compile-file ..)) in years, since I stopped using CMUCL, it didn't even occur to me. 00:06:53 pjb`: is there something similar to matplotlib for lisp? 00:07:10 -!- truthair [n=none@delph.xs4all.nl] has left #lisp 00:07:32 jao [n=jao@45.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:46 leo2007: I don't know matplotlib, but you can easily plot graphics in lisp either going thru gnuplot, or using CFFI to hook to any library you may want to use to plot things. 00:08:54 pjb`: i'm impressed by the beauty of its webpage http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/ 00:10:02 that is sexy, I must admit 00:10:04 leo2007: well, there's a python implementation written in CL. You could perhaps try to use this python library over that. 00:10:33 hefner: why're you using clisp? 00:10:35 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:10:47 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087DD9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:10:50 rsynnott: I just wanted to verify that some code worked in it. 00:10:52 leo2007: or if it's simple, you can use the google charts api 00:11:14 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:20 (just a GET with a very big query string) 00:12:57 -!- spec[away] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:13:10 pjb`: do you have the link? 00:14:25 -!- jao` [n=jao@204.Red-81-32-185.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:14:30 BrandonWilson [n=a@216.71.225.62] has joined #lisp 00:15:56 nowhere_man [i=pierre@pthierry.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:06 http://common-lisp.net/project/clpython/ 00:21:53 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 00:24:32 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 00:24:44 stassats annotated #79919 "with overlays" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79919#1 00:28:52 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 00:29:15 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 00:30:35 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:59 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:32:45 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit [Client Quit] 00:33:40 -!- jao [n=jao@45.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:34:26 jao [n=jao@30.Red-83-39-134.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:36 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-13.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 00:36:43 is there any example code on using the opengl stuff in portable CLX ? 00:37:09 I am stupid. there is a demo/ directory... 00:37:26 how would i take a piece of a string and replace it with something else 00:38:30 clhs substitute 00:38:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sbs_s.htm 00:38:35 ok 00:38:38 jimi_hendrix: (setf (subseq ...) ...) ? 00:39:34 ... demo/ directory? Oh, hell. blitz_: I missed that for far too long. Thank you. 00:40:08 heh 00:40:34 I bet the GL example doesn't work, but I'd prefer to be wrong. 00:41:01 Even if it doesn't work, it'd be a starting point. 00:41:53 pjb`: thanks for the link 00:42:13 -!- Dinosaur [n=user@unaffiliated/dinosaur] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:42:53 maybe cl-opengl would be a better starting point 00:43:10 jimi_hendrix: replace. 00:43:17 stassats: almost certainly, unless you have a specific reason for using CLX 00:43:31 blitz_, pkhuong ty 00:43:33 bah 00:43:35 pkhuong, ty 00:44:14 Vegan [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.123] has joined #lisp 00:44:21 stassats: thanks 00:44:32 hefner: (gl-test:test 'gl-test::gears*) sort of works. the lighting seems to be b0rken 00:44:43 hefner: ok, I did change open-display to open-default-display 00:44:52 granted, the idea of doing opengl through CLX is cool, and I should take another stab at getting it going from inside mcclim 00:45:37 -!- benny [n=benny@87.122.11.31] has left #lisp 00:46:14 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-18-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:02 Zounds! Nick Levine's book sounds like he's trying to take on PCL head on. 00:47:29 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 00:47:46 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit [Client Quit] 00:47:58 benny [n=benny@i577A0B1F.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:48:04 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 00:49:08 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:49:09 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:49:22 minion: logs 00:49:22 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 00:49:29 *hefner* wonders what a best way to do the audio from CL for music player is 00:50:21 hefner: eh? 00:50:32 (open "/dev/dsp" :direction :output :if-exists :append) ? 00:50:49 hefner: Interestingly, I have played audio from a CL process before, though I will admit that it was via a C library. 00:51:29 if that wasn't clear, I was wondering aloud what a good approach would be for throwing together a music player that can play mp3s 00:52:02 with lisp mp3-decoder? 00:52:17 given that such a thing does not exist, that is probably not a good approach. 00:52:41 Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:44 well, writing one should be fun 00:52:53 Is the key thing you want the actual playing to be handled by Lisp? 00:53:15 i'd probably use MPD 00:53:16 Or is the key thing to have some way to play MP3s that you can hack in Lisp? 00:53:22 Find an mp3-player library, and write bindings for it? There has to be one out there, for the gamedev community if nothing else. 00:53:50 given that i already use MPD and have lisp interface to it 00:53:54 minion: tell hefner about cl-mpd 00:53:55 hefner: have a look at cl-mpd: The CL-MPD Library defines an interface between Common Lisp and the Music Player Daemon CL-MPD will run on SBCL, CLISP, or LispWorks. http://www.cliki.net/cl-mpd 00:54:07 gigamonkey: I'm wondering what where optimum point is in control divided by effort, since I'm only interested in the UI 00:54:08 If the latter, you might start from the Shoutcast server in PCL--you let something else handle the actual playing of audio iTunes or XMMS or whatever, and then stream what you want at it, controled by Lisp. 00:55:00 both music players I like to use are either no longer packaged (XMMS) or broken (Quod Libet) in debian last time I checked, which makes me wonder (I've been using bash/mpg123 as my music player for a couple weeks now) 00:55:16 *nyef* shudders. 00:55:33 I tried using mpg123 for a while, but it just... Ugh. 00:56:02 nyef: it's kind of neat being able to call up sequences of songs using C-r in bash. 00:56:19 ..except that I have to change to the right directory first. 00:56:48 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:06 Another possibility is mplayer in -slave mode. 00:58:06 yeah, I should look at what climplayer does. I don't like the idea of an external process, though, plus lately I've come to expect run-program will randomly crash lisp. 00:58:47 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:58:49 -!- jao [n=jao@30.Red-83-39-134.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:59:01 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@68.100.82.124] has joined #lisp 01:00:10 boyscare1 [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:49 jao [n=jao@70.Red-83-46-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:52 MPD looks interesting, although it reminds me a bit of XMMS2, which I know to be a complete piece of garbage. Maybe MPD actually works. ;) 01:04:37 hefner: it works. but the protocol is crap 01:04:52 blitz_: mpd, or xmms2? 01:04:54 hefner: mpd 01:05:00 protocol is pretty simple 01:05:06 stassats: that's the problem ;) 01:05:14 why? 01:05:23 What's involved in writing an mp3 decoder, anyway? 01:05:28 you want MORE XML? 01:05:36 stassats: if you want your client to do some fancy library search, it has to fetch the complete music db... 01:05:44 nyef: good question. it's probably a lot like writing a jpeg decoder (but I haven't written one of those, either) 01:06:23 blitz_: that's reasonable 01:07:14 doing audio from lisp makes me a little nervous, anyway. whenever I've done audio in C, it has been via spooky asychronous callbacks in unspecified other threads. 01:07:21 -!- boyscare1 [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 01:07:38 boyscare1 [n=bm3719@68.32.124.6] has joined #lisp 01:07:44 -!- boyscare1 [n=bm3719@68.32.124.6] has quit [Client Quit] 01:08:56 jao` [n=jao@79.155.246.192] has joined #lisp 01:08:57 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:09:00 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.21.21] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:09:05 Whenever I've done audio in C, it has been via an interface which will cause audible drop-outs if it's not fed data fast enough, will block if it's fed data too fast, and runs unithreaded. Unless it was on windows. 01:09:18 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-13.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 01:09:31 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:09:36 Yes, this includes my small amount of ALSA experience. 01:10:04 I'm thinking of Win32 and (on Linux) SDL, and I've decided that SDL's audio interface sucks and needs to die 01:10:16 ..although for a music player, it would work. 01:10:39 Yes, well. I think I burned any temptation towards using SDL out of me long ago. 01:10:57 it's terribly convenient. 01:11:23 It is. But at the same time, it's rather irritating. 01:11:32 Or maybe that was just the bindings I was using. 01:12:09 -!- jao` [n=jao@79.155.246.192] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:12:30 hm, why is sb-executable failing... 01:12:45 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 01:12:50 Why is subtypep failing? 01:12:57 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:14:10 ah! led astray by the comments 01:14:52 envi^laptop [n=envi@115.94.144.228] has joined #lisp 01:15:43 Hrm. 01:15:57 is there a way i can turn a string into a keyword? or take a keyword itself as an argument 01:15:59 jao` [n=jao@187.Red-79-155-154.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:09 Where, in an x86 core, would I find a use of an operand-size prefix? 01:16:51 jimi_hendrix: I can think of three or four methods for the former, and don't have enough context to be able to respond to the latter. 01:16:59 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 01:17:19 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 01:17:36 nyef, i am want to take a keyword and a value to add to a list in part of my function, how would i be able to take a keyword as an arg for this 01:18:13 By... passing a keyword as an argument? 01:18:23 I don't understand where the problem is. 01:19:05 jimi_hendrix: (defun f (keyword value) (do-something-with keyword value)) 01:19:37 ok 01:19:43 i thought it would be harder :) 01:19:58 now just curious, how would i make a string a keyword? 01:20:03 -!- jao [n=jao@70.Red-83-46-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:20:05 jimi_hendrix: free your mind! In lisp, everything's easier! 01:20:13 (intern string "KEYWORD") 01:20:28 ok 01:20:48 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 01:22:44 -!- jao` [n=jao@187.Red-79-155-154.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:23:21 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:27:16 jao [n=jao@44.Red-81-32-181.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:21 mogunus [n=user@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:57 theL00p [n=user@78.33.52.101] has joined #lisp 01:30:48 -!- jao [n=jao@44.Red-81-32-181.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:31:03 Okay, I'm going to pretend to try and get some sleep now. 01:31:06 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 01:32:19 enn_ [n=eli@codeanddata.com] has joined #lisp 01:32:44 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:33:45 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 01:33:53 pjb`, why does intern return the keyword with |'s around it? 01:34:07 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-40.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:34:09 because it's not upcased 01:34:12 (intern "foo" "KEYWORD") 01:34:18 -!- enn [n=eli@codeanddata.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:34:21 "FOO" 01:34:27 stassats, what does that have to do with the pipes though 01:34:50 pipes do escaping 01:35:09 jimi_hendrix: try (mapcar #'symbol-name '(foo FOO |foo| |FOO|)) 01:35:53 -!- felixc [n=felix@li46-216.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:37:59 _sepult_ [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-100-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:38:43 -!- _sepult_ [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-100-62.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:38:53 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:39:10 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 01:39:48 felixc [n=felix@li46-216.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 01:40:17 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 01:41:13 jao [n=jao@145.Red-83-46-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:15 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:44:31 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 01:47:39 sepult_ [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-100-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:48:53 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633642.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:49:36 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:50:03 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 01:50:13 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-30-194.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:50:59 -!- sepult_ is now known as sepult 01:53:22 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:58 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ab6608fab10c4eb6] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:58:20 CLX' GLX bindings seem to lack font handling :-/ 01:58:28 airbrush [n=knoppix@216.237.192.240] has joined #lisp 02:00:34 OpenGL doesn't have fonts 02:02:14 unless you're saying there's a GLX helper function to turn them into texture or something, but.. yuck. 02:07:10 But imagine if we could define 3D fonts, we could write books in 3D! You could tell several stories in parrallel! 02:07:11 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2F5BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:07:26 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:07:44 i'd like some tabs with that 02:07:47 heh :) 02:08:04 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-46-58.lns2.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:25 *airbrush* is waiting for "smell-a-vision" 02:08:35 I always thought it would be cute to make my shell windows transparent and using orthogonal colors, so I could pile three on top of each other and distinguish them clearly 02:08:41 i think it's about time i started looking at stumpwm .. i am, or was, actually considering finding a way to run Firefox/Gecko in a Emacs frame now ... :P 02:09:27 (although really I think transparent windows, particularly for terminals, are a horrible idea that should burn in hell) 02:10:46 lnostdal, I was on emacs-wiki looking for browsers the other day, things haven't changed much there :/ 02:12:51 kanzure- [n=bryan@66.112.232.37] has joined #lisp 02:13:02 hefner: the glx bindings have some support for X fonts. at least in the C world 02:13:10 Hello. I'm using clisp, and I'm wondering how to make the interpreter be more specific about errors in my scripts. Line numbers would be sexy. Help? 02:13:29 kanzure-: get the sources, hack, post a patch. 02:13:44 ahaas [n=ahaas@neptune.pettomato.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:46 is there another lisp interpreter that already has this functionality? 02:13:50 hefner: any better idea to render fonts from OpenGL ? 02:14:01 kanzure-: notice that there's a compilation option to add a 32-bit field to any lisp object in clisp, so you could easily store source position information there. 02:14:11 tritchey [n=tritchey@68.58.88.241] has joined #lisp 02:14:24 (ie. you've got half of the work done for you already). 02:14:47 how do others debug their scripts then? 02:14:58 I mean, without line numbers, how can you know whether or not some vague error is about one file rather than another, etc.? 02:15:07 exactly as we debug any other lisp program: form by form. 02:15:13 what? 02:15:16 *kanzure-* is new to lisp. :) 02:15:17 blitz_: the low rent approach I like, at least for monospaced text, is to make a text file containing all the characters I need, cat it in an empty terminal, take a screenshot which I can load to a texture, then use the position in the original string times the font width to locate the correct rectangle in the texture 02:15:19 SBCL+Slime knows about code locations etc., kanzure- 02:15:26 type at the repl: (/ 1 0) 02:15:33 slime is for emacs. what about SBCL though? 02:15:47 blitz_: I also have code for using cl-vectors and zpb-ttf to render truetype fonts to a texture, but it's wrapped up in a larger framework 02:15:51 kanzure-: slime contains swank. Swank is for SBCL. 02:16:06 -!- drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:16:18 (which isn't even done in any usable state, except to get some text up on the screen as individual glyphs) 02:16:24 hefner: the first suggestion sounds workable :) 02:18:06 what is the current mail address of christophe rhodes? the one in the clx readme bounces. 02:18:36 blitz_: csr21@cantab.net works 02:18:37 hefner: do you do kerning too ? 02:18:53 xristos: not yet. 02:19:30 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:20:09 drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:50 jao` [n=jao@33.Red-81-32-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:40 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-18-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:23:51 gigamonkey [n=user@76.254.18.82] has joined #lisp 02:24:06 minon: logs 02:24:12 *hefner* wonders about gamma and antialiasing 02:24:16 minion: logs 02:24:16 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 02:25:22 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.123] has quit ["leaving"] 02:25:29 HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 02:26:35 -!- bhyde [n=bhyde@c-66-30-202-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:27:41 hefner: does this fit into zpb-ttf 02:28:01 i'd assume its the rasterizers job 02:28:21 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:58 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:30:02 it's using zpb-ttf and cl-vectors, the same code I wrote for mcclim, except targetting my shoddy attempt at an allocator for rectangles within a large texture, and a crude proof of concept "draw a string" routine 02:30:29 i mean gamma/aa 02:30:39 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 02:30:43 oh. yeah, rasterizer's job. 02:30:57 i need to take another look at zpb-ttf 02:31:15 -!- drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:31:56 -!- airbrush [n=knoppix@216.237.192.240] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:34:17 -!- jao [n=jao@145.Red-83-46-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:39:08 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 02:39:55 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 02:40:50 drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:15 danlei [n=user@pD9E2E17A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:06 jao [n=jao@81.Red-83-33-178.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:32 rjack_ [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 02:51:23 -!- theL00p [n=user@78.33.52.101] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:52:42 -!- existentialmonk 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(No route to host)] 03:14:20 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-76-254-18-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:33 Vegan [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.123] has joined #lisp 03:15:25 jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:18:12 -!- jao [n=jao@81.Red-83-33-178.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:19:09 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@68.100.82.124] has quit [] 03:24:57 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:15 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@student164-134.hampshire.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:27:23 jao [n=jao@3.Red-83-42-109.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:04 pinterface1 [n=pinterfa@69.66.202.152] has joined #lisp 03:30:46 chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:14 -!- ak70 [n=ak70@195.158.94.48] has left #lisp 03:37:17 -!- drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:43:17 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-100-62.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:45:54 -!- deliana_ [n=deliana@86.201.238.81] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:46:15 can format be reimplemented to render text in other language? 03:46:21 *languages 03:46:42 Of course, if you reimplement it. 03:47:35 konr: but short of Athas's suggestion, no. 03:47:43 Though you could do some tricks with the ~// directive. 03:48:00 Hmmm, some things like rendering y/ies according to the number are really useful 03:48:42 -!- shelducks [n=paro@121.28.12.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:48:54 shelducks [n=paro@121.28.12.5] has joined #lisp 03:51:13 konr, Of course I did it for php 03:51:54 Don't for get ~r, that's always good times. Though it'd be a lot harder in a language that declines (grammatically) numbers. 03:53:13 -!- Edward__ [i=Ed@90.3.129.241] has quit ["« La POO c'est bien beau, mais en C au moins on va droit au but. »"] 03:53:21 pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:57 -!- alec [n=alec@pool-96-237-2-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:59:57 -!- pinterface1 [n=pinterfa@69.66.202.152] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:03:09 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:03:14 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@68.58.88.241] has quit [] 04:05:38 -!- jao [n=jao@3.Red-83-42-109.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:06:58 -!- theL00p [n=user@78.33.52.101] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:10:00 jao [n=jao@238.Red-81-32-178.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:10 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 04:14:32 -!- felixc [n=felix@li46-216.members.linode.com] has quit ["leaving"] 04:14:49 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-117-174.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:58 rullie [n=rullie@99.235.203.155] has joined #lisp 04:16:21 dyslexic me rebuilt a home server named "troy" and ended up calling it "rtoy". it was a very confusing evening, heart broken that ray decided to pwn me :-( 04:17:07 -!- rich_holygoat [n=rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [] 04:18:17 you could've named it tory 04:18:32 rtoy is a neat name. 04:19:21 calling it tory wont make me dyslexic, only a mid-westerner 04:20:12 semyon [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 04:20:35 fusss: got a problem with mid-westerners? ;D 04:20:39 I'm going to become one soon! 04:21:31 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:46 upper-eastcoasters make for awful all-american-boys. if it's not the tight hoodie that will give you away then it's the use of "per se". 04:22:22 good thing I'm puerto rican. A vanilla one at that. 04:22:37 but I'm practicing my pseudo-canadian accent. 04:25:10 canadian? tfoo! you people stole our .. well, whatever we can't find in America's glove compartment since we gave you a ride last. 04:25:22 did someone say something about languages declining numbers? ;_; 04:27:05 *p_l* can't recall all the rules of declination&co he has to use for any bigger expression in Polish, despite being capable of writing down sentence ASTs and having grammar hammered into him 04:27:30 -!- jao [n=jao@238.Red-81-32-178.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:27:47 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:28:09 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.203.126] has joined #lisp 04:28:53 am I missing something? I copied slime from one machine to another identical. but in the new machine, M-x slime throws me in an *inferior-lisp* buffer, not *slime-repl*; something is borked? 04:29:13 jao [n=jao@168.Red-83-33-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:48 Did you also copy over your .emacs file? 04:29:57 apparently having an actual repl is considered fancy these days 04:30:14 (i.e., check and compare your .emacs-files, yes) 04:30:49 pinterface: the .emacs is identical wrt to lisp. the rest is mode customization for 12+ different tools and languages i wont need in the new box (if ever) 04:31:48 -!- shelducks [n=paro@121.28.12.5] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:31:51 intraline [n=paro@121.28.12.5] has joined #lisp 04:32:03 fusss: did you copy the same slime version, as well? 04:32:07 (add-to-list 'load-path "~/slime-2009-05-03/") (setq inferior-lisp-program "lisp") (require 'slime) (slime-setup); that aught to do 04:32:15 everything is copied scp -r 04:32:53 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0B1F.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:33:08 benny [n=benny@i577A0B1F.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:33:29 As lnostdal mentioned, the repl is a contrib and doesn't load by default. (Nothing that makes slime worth having loads by default, if I recall.) 04:33:33 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:33:41 try (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 04:33:45 xan-afk_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 04:34:46 danlei: that did it! 04:35:26 fuss: i have (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf slime-references slime-indentation)) atm 04:35:58 those are the things I use! 04:36:12 they're not auto-enabled anymore? 04:36:35 no, i don't think so 04:37:53 well, you'd get indenting without slime-indentatin, for example, but LOOP is indented better, if you use it (and (setq lisp-indent-function 'cl-indent:function) 04:38:24 no wonder my non builtin forms are in so deep (4+ spaces) 04:41:26 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-100-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:41:44 dizpater [n=dizpater@68-29-44-37.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:30 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-100-62.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:43:11 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-100-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:45:35 -!- xan-afk [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:46:11 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:46:16 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-159.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:27 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E47880.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:17 what takes care of indenting defmethod? (considering it needs to have a special exception when qualifiers are used) 04:57:04 kglovern [n=kglovern@CPE001d725da193-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:01:40 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:05:32 here is the secret to business success: if you scam some high profile company, you can also use their name in your "clients" list and scam all their peers. 05:05:36 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:05:49 awesome! 05:06:44 Good morning. 05:06:52 hey beach 05:07:35 sykopomp: As I recall, the indentation is done by the emacs common-lisp-indent-function. 05:07:58 sykopomp: It is not so smart. You need Climacs in order to get it right. 05:08:06 sigh 05:08:18 but I can't -live- in climacs yet! :( 05:08:56 sykopomp: No, but you can almost live in McCLIM. 05:09:17 awesome :) 05:09:28 what's the status with McCLIM and cross-os? 05:09:39 I don't know. 05:09:43 what's what? use linux. 05:10:13 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-188-159.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:10:47 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E47AFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 05:10:52 hefner: I do. But I wouldn't complain about being able to distribute cross-platform code to unfortunate souls who use non-free OSs. 05:11:03 there is no operating system but gnu, and linux is one of its, many, kernels. 05:11:15 fusss: "and its only functional one" 05:11:16 they don't want your quirky software anyway. if it was any good, they wouldn't be able to figure out how to use it. 05:11:29 hehe :) 05:13:14 the HURD is fairly functional, specially on ISA machines 05:13:23 :\ 05:13:45 The HURD? More like "DURR HURR", amirite? 05:15:49 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:15:52 no you're not. i successfully booted it once on an old machine, and it printed a legible, plain english oops. i remember it even had __FILE__ and __LINE__ info. very advanced. 05:16:17 did it spit out the "bought the farm" message? 05:17:15 no, but I'm sure the machine reboot interrupt handler was a cleanly designed user-mode tasklet, and it couldn't bring the system down. 05:21:12 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.203.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:21:35 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.139.26] has joined #lisp 05:23:08 -!- mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075595pcs.unl.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:25:07 -!- kglovern [n=kglovern@CPE001d725da193-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 05:28:14 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:31:02 -!- rullie [n=rullie@99.235.203.155] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:34:32 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:46 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.139.26] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:40:48 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:41:18 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 05:42:22 fusss: and GNU makes for a lousy system 05:42:48 p_l: them's fightin' words. 05:43:09 Also, I can barely help but cackle maniacally upon "DURR HURR" at Hurd :D 05:43:50 I wonder when more Linux distros drop glibc 05:44:05 and when we can expect some healthy changes to some other, basic packages 05:46:36 (like proper manpages) 05:49:24 p_l: perhaps, but either way, GNU and all the resulting software/libraries were at the right place at the right time... 05:50:00 pstickne_: Unless Linus had known of 386BSD 05:51:34 deadowl [n=deadowl@132.198.252.147] has joined #lisp 05:53:12 sykopomp: know of any *good* online radios/playlists 05:53:15 what do you call it if you want to get the next node on a tree between two nodes (like a great great grandparent and a child) 05:53:19 http://www.di.fm/ is starting to suck 05:53:34 fusss: I just listen to the same 3 or 4 albums over and over. 05:54:12 deadowl: ansi cl does not specify "tree"; what are you using to represent them? lists or matrices? or even .. *gasp* a clos heirarchy? 05:54:25 Maghnus [n=maghnus@66.191.104.128] has joined #lisp 05:54:26 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp002.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 05:54:37 sykopomp: you bore. i'm feeling gangsta right now, and trance is not cutting it. 05:55:10 fusss: I have mpd stream my music (using icecast), but I think that would bore you more. 05:55:32 fusss: I'm actually not using lisp for this, I just have most experience using trees in different lisps so I was thinking someone in the lisp channel might know what to call my function :( 05:55:40 i'm on a dickless XP laptop, and all the machines i can reach are crappy work vpses 05:56:04 fusss: play some MC Hawking! 05:56:11 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.123] has quit ["leaving"] 05:56:14 fusss: not much fun without that extra appendage.. 05:56:27 hefner: he graduated from my alma mater. I was all like "whoa" 05:56:31 deadowl: whatever you need has to know far too much about the representation of your data structure. neither me nor CL (though hef might) has any clue. 05:57:26 deadowl: (defun whatever (...) ...) has a certain ring to it... 05:57:52 -!- deadowl [n=deadowl@132.198.252.147] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:58:02 deadowl: (defun get-next-node-on-tree-between-two-nodes (tree node1 node2) ...) 05:58:04 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-143-250.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:14 M-TAB is your friend. 05:58:14 deadowl [n=deadowl@132.198.252.147] has joined #lisp 05:58:15 hefner: MC Hawking is a poser. aside from the tricked out wheel chair, he is all talk. 05:58:38 or maybe not, I forget what the other tab-complete binding is. 05:58:56 I simply hit TAB, rarely fails :3 05:59:18 fusss: are you suggesting that he didn't gun down a group of MIT students on a street corner? 06:00:00 hefner: If he really did that I'd hack MIT registry to enter just to see such awesomness-on-wheelchair going around ;-) 06:00:02 -!- deadowl [n=deadowl@132.198.252.147] has left #lisp 06:01:12 *sykopomp* wonders why hacking needs to happen in order to get into MIT -- it's a pretty accessible place. 06:01:49 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-200-223.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:51 dem MIT cats never pay on time. a gram here, a baggie there .. before you know it, you gotta bust a privileged knee cap to make ends meet. 06:02:31 -!- intraline [n=paro@121.28.12.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:03:11 ... did I just sense a reference to "Firefly"? :D 06:03:29 -!- pstickne_ [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:03:41 *sykopomp* thought it was just a reference to popping kneecaps mafia-style. 06:03:45 you saw it? ewww 06:04:21 There's nothing in the bible against shooting kneecaps :3 06:04:23 p_l: no, it was a reference to "Getting Things Done", by Tony M (a Colombian self-help guru from Florida) 06:04:43 heh 06:05:08 p_l: if it makes you feel any better, you east euros share the title of "token evil guy" with us arabs :-P 06:06:47 fusss: Ehh? Weird, given our historically better standing (including still existing, after several centuries, our own, polish islamic community separate from most others) 06:07:17 but well, people in Poland tend not look at history too much now, so.. 06:07:44 there are Polish Muslims? 06:07:58 (beyond recent converts) 06:08:14 p_l: Poland? you're good enough to stand in as russian extras in a hollywood movie. Your Islamic community can do the cockpit scenes in the same movie. 06:08:22 Adamant: yeah, a completely separate branch compared to current Middle-East 06:08:31 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:08:38 p_l: probably turks 06:08:47 fusss: One day you shall remember that only one nation, ever, took down russians 06:08:59 p_l: Finland! 06:09:04 fusss: after >400 years, they are no longer turkish. 06:09:06 p_l: I would have figured the Sobeskis would have kicked out the Muslims back during the conflicts with the Turks 06:09:07 Finland = Winland. 06:09:56 *fusss* is a rusophile and honors our shared communist heritage, you little Lisp-1 tsarist imperialists bastards! 06:10:03 fusss: Nope, Finland only stood against them. We kicked their ass so hard they pleaded us thrice to govern them. If we haven't had an religious idiot on the throne, Russia would have a Polish Tsar 06:10:21 Finland beat them. 06:10:25 fusss: you forget "pure functional infidels" 06:10:31 :P 06:10:32 p_l: yo dog. i take your word for it, but allow me to google. 06:11:09 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:11:27 people forget the Poles and focus on Finland though 06:11:27 Adamant: They didn't take Moscow. 06:11:46 p_l: they didn't have to, they were defending against invasion 06:12:31 True. We just had one of our magnates decide he wanted a stake in Russia and then it kinda snowballed ^^; 06:13:21 Russian war goal: conquer Finland. Finnish war goal - remain independent country with border intact. Finland met it's objectives, Russia didn't, so the Finns won. 06:13:52 p_l: there is no *reason* for there to be Muslims in Poland. the furthest we have gone into Europe is Bulgaria. wtf? 06:14:21 fusss: You seee... Ottoman Empire and Poland had nearly a common border ^^; 06:15:10 and at some point, as a gesture of good will, we got a nice regiment of imperial cavalry. All muslims. And now all muslim polish to the bone :) 06:15:17 where the hell where the Turks? Slovakia or Ukraina? 06:15:34 I have been to Czech and there is nothing Islamic about it. not a drop. 06:15:39 they got as far as the gates of Vienna 06:15:51 didn't hold it all that long 06:16:03 fusss: Oh, there was a "no mans land" in between, inhabited by remains of mongol horde 06:16:06 I read that in Bernard Lewis, but then I had to forget it, because it was Bernard Lewis. 06:16:23 Vegan [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.123] has joined #lisp 06:16:28 jesus! 06:16:53 no wonder the Euros shat their pants when a few ten Algerian teens burned cars in France, lol :-P 06:17:06 the Poles wouldn't 06:17:19 I don't expect them to. they're poles. 06:17:23 see: King Jan Sobeski 06:17:35 fusss: and well, the empire was often helping the horde, while our own less law-abiding people inhabiting less civilized parts of Ukraine did the same to Empire... 06:17:49 he broke the siege of Vienna 06:18:36 so we clashed a lot. In fact, polish history books often emphasize that our culture is based on both Western and Eastern influences 06:19:00 Poles are more on the Western end of the Slav continuum though 06:19:13 all I know is that I root for the white and red whenever they play Alemania (booo!) 06:19:17 compared to somewhere like Ukraine or especially Russia 06:19:55 Adamant: I'd say that Poles and Russians are more "Slavs" than anything else. The most western I guess had to be Czech 06:20:25 p_l: the Poles I've met in US seemed more Western to me than most Russians 06:20:52 p_l: yeah, we had bulgarian, romanian, moldovan and hungarian communist brothers back in the old country and i can spot them. the Czechs look nothing like them. 06:20:52 combination of Catholicism and closer proximity 06:21:31 Adamant: you a pole? 06:21:38 Adamant: Well, >100 years of emigration did take a toll ;) 06:21:51 fusss: nah, just have friends who are hardcore Poles or Polish-Americans 06:21:59 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 06:22:05 Adamant: dude! rusky? 06:22:05 I'm also mildly interested in Polish history 06:22:18 fusss: Germanic mutt 06:22:24 no Russian 06:22:43 and the biggest cue as to polish heritage were the traditional clothes, weaponry of nobles, which has completely passed into obscurity and, well, history 06:22:44 fucking aye Adamant! you exophile! 06:22:44 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:23:02 lol 06:23:13 I'm all Northern Euro ethnically 06:23:20 and culturally American of course 06:23:50 There's such a thing as American culture!? (pardon the bad pun, I can't resist ^^;) 06:23:59 yes, amazingly enough 06:24:08 there was a good site on that. 06:24:18 it's a pretty rich culture, too, imo. 06:24:19 p_l: hey now 06:24:32 well ... at least there's jazz (even if noone listens to it) 06:24:41 had people list the common features of the citizens and their daily life 06:24:42 p_l: i say "arab" but i'm strait outa DC homes! 06:24:54 daniel_: blues, rock, country, rap 06:24:57 okay so... 06:25:02 there's no lisp community. 06:25:02 MrSpec: Yesterday I pasted this (http://paste.lisp.org/display/79891#8) but I was a little bit late. HTH. 06:25:06 Is there a lisp culture? 06:25:09 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6CFB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:10 if so, what's it like? 06:25:13 I know, it's just that while I could say easily that there *was* a real culture, I can't feel much from what is currently flowing out... 06:25:34 sykopomp: the community is weak, the culture is sort-of strong 06:25:41 -!- mogunus [n=user@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Success] 06:25:43 p_l: nigga you been lookin in all dem wrong places. we is HERE. representin'. 06:26:10 at least nothing really differentiating it or giving it any real shape. Unless you try to define "American" by "stupidity". Which, at least in Poland, was the baseline of what is "american" :D 06:26:32 Stereotypes are such fun, ne? 06:26:45 p_l: heh 06:26:55 Hello 06:26:56 MrSpec, memo from beach: x can be computed from n and y. 06:27:01 I've been to poland,.. every guy looks exactly like the next one.. they're worse than the chinese.. :p 06:27:02 O_o 06:27:10 -!- BrandonWilson [n=a@216.71.225.62] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:27:11 p_l: in America Poles are (unfairly) the butt of jokes about stupidity. :P 06:27:15 *sykopomp* points out that "negro" is a term of endearment in certain spanish-speaking communities, used even by non-blacks. 06:27:15 vy: thx 06:27:19 Gertm: +1 for anthropological accuracy 06:27:30 Gertm: I dont think so :P 06:27:32 :D 06:27:43 not to mention that sometimes they can lead to such nice "foot in mouth" clasics. Like a famous exchange between polish and french ambassador in Versailles :D 06:27:45 Adamant, sykopomp: strong in grid (what it has in common) or strong in group (what kind of boundaries it perceives to have and maintains) :) 06:27:47 -!- kanzure- [n=bryan@66.112.232.37] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:27:55 Gertm: that's because they all have the same father. at least american women have the decency to sleep around, for the sake of natural selection, imo. 06:27:59 guaqua: both 06:28:33 guaqua: done some sociology-type stuff? 06:28:38 Adamant: which culture are we talking about, again? 06:28:46 guaqua: lisp culture 06:28:48 guaqua: Lisp 06:28:54 it's the Croatians who all look like the worst of all Jersey guidos 06:29:07 US culture seems to be more strong in group. 06:29:08 some anthropology, a little sociology :) 06:29:10 p_l: how long have you been in Poland ? 06:29:19 MrSpec: 19y, from birth :) 06:29:40 O, nice to meet you 06:29:41 fusss: *dies* 06:29:41 ;) 06:29:48 fusss: oh Guidos. How I love thee. 06:30:00 *fusss* thinks all east euros would grab their purses and sit quitely when Attila_the_Hun shows up 06:30:16 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:30:33 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:39 fusss: Depends. If he got too unruly, at some point we would get mad, and Eat War And Shit Awesome :> 06:31:04 p_l: "Drink Oil; Piss Napalm!" 06:31:19 hahaha 06:32:21 fusss: BTW, we keep everyone between 19yo and 50yo ready for immediate conscription ^_^ 06:32:39 p_l: you guys should love the Finns then 06:32:43 Attila has such a great name, i think a few guys drop their *slime-repl*s when he comes around. 300 men watch Attila check his code into SVN, and they had to be killed, then their executioners had to be killed. Attila's repo has to remain anonymous .. for the Gods. 06:33:09 well, every *male*. Women are exempt from conscription unless in medicine course 06:33:36 as medicine students get their own military preparation, separate from normal conscription 06:33:36 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:33:54 p_l: there are individual citizen Finns that keep leftover WW2 era weapons hidden in caches in case of a Russian invasion 06:33:55 MrSpec: x is (/ (+ n (* 5 y y)) (* 4 y)) 06:33:55 p_l: http://i42.tinypic.com/10po7md.jpg Alternately. 06:34:13 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-46-58.lns2.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:34:14 p_l: since this year we dont keep ;) 06:34:14 p_l: illegally of course, but they have some really heavy stuff 06:34:15 p_l: only reason I'm "american" is that I'm dodging the draft in two countries. arabs have the usual 30 year limit as well :-( 06:35:02 p_l: who have you fought against since 1945? 06:35:04 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp002.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 06:35:18 beach: thanks 06:35:24 Adamant: mainly machine guns, i believe 06:35:31 fusss: Inside country? 06:35:38 yes 06:35:42 guaqua: they have mortars and other thing too, I think 06:35:49 I will try it 06:36:01 Inside we managed to avoid (and then russians managed to cleanse the military of people with good enough attitude) 06:36:05 Adamant: as a Finn, i have to say, i'm surprised by this information :) 06:36:19 guaqua: maybe it got exaggerated to me in the telling 06:36:26 fusss: there was a reason why 1956 was quelled with Russian military, not polish forces 06:36:55 guaqua: but it was represented to me that Finns hid some pretty heavy-duty stuff 06:37:04 cause big chunks of polish army went, without orders, into full 24/7 combat alert in case they were needed to help overthrowing communist gov. :D 06:37:12 what I did find it poland: beautiful women. 06:37:28 Gertm: This is starting to become a meme. *OLD* meme 06:37:41 well for me it was true 06:37:58 Turkey has beautiful women too. then you see the men, and you lose all appetite. 06:38:07 the eyes 06:38:07 hah 06:38:09 <3 06:38:13 Adamant: the generations that actually have a connection to the war are not doing that well anymore. i can believe that there was some functional stuff in the 70s or in the 80s...but who knows. it's another finland in the eastern and more rural parts :) 06:38:19 but I think Spain is vastly superior, women-wise. 06:38:31 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp002.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 06:38:52 I do not say it's not true, but... when you hear a poem written few centuries ago, about how, of all europe, polish women were the most beautiful, at some point you go "WTF!?" 06:38:52 guaqua: yeah. obviously stuff like explosives go bad unless maintained. 06:39:08 (said poem was written by italian guy) 06:39:18 for whatever reason, without having ever left the US for longer than an hour at a time, Spain sounds like the tops 06:39:56 hefner: just remember to go for the coast 06:40:15 hefner: hi-5 06:40:28 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 06:40:36 familiar, yet exotic is perceived to be beautiful 06:40:38 A#1! 06:40:53 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6CFB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 06:40:55 living at a border triangle, i'd say that there are both ugly and beautiful women in all countries 06:41:07 danlei: what triangle? 06:41:09 I still remember 48 degrees centigrade in *shadow* during my short stay in Spain... 06:41:11 sykopomp: que putinho! brasil mulheres mas buenitas no todos al mundo (if my portuguese is not too horrible) 06:41:53 fusss: no sé portugués, pero lo puedo leer. Las brasileñas no son tan lindas, en mi opinión. 06:41:54 deutschland, luxembourg, and france (with many portugese women in lu) 06:42:16 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:42:21 mtd_ [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 06:42:42 danlei: ah, not so far away from me.. belgium, about 50km from the coast 06:42:51 *sykopomp* watches the channel slowly sink deeper and deeper into ot 06:42:57 so anyways 06:43:04 I'm releasing sheeple 1.0 soon 06:43:08 it's exciting :) 06:43:17 vy: this code looks v. lispy :D In which book can I find informations about this way of programming ? 06:43:57 sykopomp: you haven't got the memo? we have to keep up with the Rails crows and apply moar axe body spray 06:44:09 s/crows/crowd/ 06:44:13 p_l: heat's not that bad once you get used to it 06:44:16 fusss: Can we apply axes to DHH? 06:44:26 fusss: drink more latte! 06:44:35 ADHD is what I got, i said ADHD is what I got, just remember that 06:44:46 I live at roughly the latitude of Algeria 06:45:05 fusss: preferably augmented with heavy-duty SQL inscriptions of utter insanity to funnel our rage into power? :P 06:45:13 Spain has to be better :P 06:45:15 s/latte/beer/g Yuengling, authentic American beer, since 1829 06:45:38 sounds Chinese though doesn't it, even though it's German-American 06:45:44 that's good stuff there 06:45:51 american beer? I drank some in seattle.. local brewery, most vile substance I drank all my life 06:45:51 guaqua: Latte shouldn't be poisoned by DHH's people. (Rails itself is fine, but the crowd... bleh) 06:45:53 fucking aye! 06:46:17 Adamant: Yuengling mei guo de 06:46:23 it's Immerikkkan 06:46:35 *p_l* will not give up his quad-damage latte to uppity DHH followers! 06:46:40 shouldn't there be a u umlaut? 06:46:46 fusss: no habla ni hao 06:46:51 :P 06:46:52 haha :-P 06:47:11 shenme? ni shi mei guo ren ma? 06:47:26 p_l: only pickaxes 06:47:39 sorry man, my Chinese vocabulary is tiny 06:47:53 most Chinese things are tiny 06:48:01 awwww, sorry :-P 06:48:24 yeah, I really should work on Mandarin now that I'm done with finals and have nothing to do for a bit 06:48:26 brb, another smokg 06:49:05 Adamant: languages suck. really. you could never know any of them fully well. I speak about 6 and done me nothing good. 06:49:50 a brief conscription as an army translator was the best I did. you can get by with a few drinking phrases, and most "intelligentsia" I english bilingual almost everywhere in the world. 06:50:12 fusss: I just like to be able to listen into "private" conversations and drop a remark when people expect me to be monolingual :P 06:50:13 ejs [n=eugen@197-108-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:36 Adamant: evil! 06:50:41 as a native English speaker 06:51:22 most "natives" will not hear you if you "look" foreign. the Chinese have a tendency to ignore anything you say as a "lao wai". arabs look me funny, since i'm "black". Somalis look at me funny when I speak somali, since i'm "white", etc. not cool. 06:51:24 I learn languages under the theory that the more people I can talk to the better 06:51:57 so, right now, Spanish and Mandarin 06:52:20 you will do best in languages where you have ethnic bias. learn languages you can pass as a native speaker and you will be "superb". 06:52:32 ly 06:52:36 lichtblau [n=user@pD9543290.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:52:53 fusss: given how many accents people claimed I had, I'd need to master all languages of Europe :D 06:53:06 brazilians hear my horrible horrible "Pimp-sleur" portuguese as a dialect .. because I *look* brazilian. 06:53:40 fusss: that would limit me to Gaelic and Scandanavian languages, which are a bit useless in practical terms 06:53:51 since all those folks speak great English anyway 06:54:03 Adamant: ahhhh, sorry 06:54:14 brb 06:54:17 Adamant: spanish and mandarin are both excellent choices. I feel like the lack of outreach as far as speaking to the Chinese goes is very troubling. 06:54:31 it's tempting me to try learning mandarin next time I get into learning languages. 06:54:41 sykopomp: would be a good idea 06:54:43 takes forever though 06:54:45 but I may end up deciding to master Japanese before I do that. 06:54:51 and I still can't find good resources. 06:55:10 sykopomp: fwiw, beijing university has a great spanish program. my ex-roommate in beijin was a student there and came to me because i was "north american". 06:55:13 I think I should finish up my Japanese, then relearn German and French, then take on Mandarin... 06:55:19 I don't know how you'd learn languages like mandarin outside of academia, unfortunately. 06:56:08 I want to be able to see a phrase in Pinyin, and see it in Simplified Modern Chinese, and see it in classical Chinese, and see how to do the strokes to write it as well 06:56:16 sykopomp: minhas ex namoradas/novias tambem. ellen chinatas mas fallan espanhol muito bem. 06:56:57 so far I can't find any resources like that out thre 06:57:00 *there 06:57:14 Adamant: They are out there, though. 06:57:27 p_l: any suggestions? 06:57:37 Adamant: http://www.skritter.com/ 06:57:38 fusss: hm. 06:58:09 fusss: thanks! 06:58:34 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 06:59:08 Adamant: nothing I can give, unfortunately. I do know that at least in Poland, mandarin classes where on the rise, and I had seen mandarin course in Aberdeen 06:59:29 p_l: I think they're on the rise in the US as well 07:00:40 p_l: the Chinese are required to have like six years of English education, but because they don't have access to native speakers to practice with and there isn't a strong emphasis on speaking practice, most Chinese's English is about as good as my French. 07:01:20 so, the Chinese, like native English speakers, tend to be kinda monolingual 07:01:47 I had this indian professor once who went off in class ranting about how the chinese language was a throwback to thousands of years ago (and it pissed him off that people studied it), hindi was baroque are stupid, and everyone ought to just learn english 07:02:05 s/are/and/ 07:02:07 -!- ejs [n=eugen@197-108-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:02:21 as much as I like to cheerlead for English, that's a bit much. 07:03:04 heh 07:03:25 ejs [n=eugen@197-108-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:47 I admit I fully support people learning English voluntarily as a way to communicate internationally, but it's a pretty imperialistic concept, and it has to strictly be treated as a second language for those who aren't natives... 07:03:59 hefner: did you ask him if a chinese woman refused to go out with him? 07:04:19 the very idea of anyone criticizing anyone else's native language makes me sick to my stomach. 07:04:38 even if it's PHP? 07:04:52 at least he also criticized his own! 07:04:53 no one speaks PHP as their native language. 07:05:11 They either learned perl first, or they copy-paste existing PHP code and/or change numbers until something runs. 07:05:20 just because there are no great works of literature doesn't mean there aren't some native speakers 07:05:49 4chan is in PHP! How's that for a great cultural work? 07:06:10 :D 07:07:55 nostoi [n=nostoi@234.Red-79-153-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:20 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@125.93.104.123] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:11:21 sykopomp: I noticed that after certain amount of time and expertise, "native" ceases to mean anything 07:12:37 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-200-223.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:12:47 p_l: that's sort of how I am with English. It's my second language, but real natives can't tell the difference anymore. 07:13:42 so I don't know if to say I'm a native speaker. I speak like a native, yet I didn't really get fluent until maybe middle school. I didn't speak like I do now until I came to the US for uni. 07:13:46 sykopomp: In my case, I had people ask me if I'm french or italian. One time people from Computing Society heard me talking in Polish, they added "Russian spy conversing with his contact" to the list 07:13:58 english is the 4chan of native languages: everyone knows it, but nobody brags about it. 07:14:11 And I was speaking English, not french or italian... 07:14:20 fusss: plenty of people brag about speaking english internationally. 07:14:31 Specially since in some places, it gets you a much better job. 07:14:43 (I speak of my experience in Puerto Rico) 07:15:17 p_l: haha 07:15:38 well, except maybe in mainland china, i haven't seen that phenomenon. amongst the arabs and africans i know, it's nothing to brag about; it's like saying you're not illiterate. good for you! but .. 07:15:43 I find myself sometimes speaking *engrish* 07:15:50 international english is the lingua franca, not american or british english. it's broken, it's ugly, it gets your message better through... 07:16:11 p_l: I accidentally starting L-ing my Rs after studying japanese for a couple of years. 07:16:14 made me feel pretty silly. 07:16:21 haha 07:16:46 even scarier -- since Japanese and French are in the same "expertise bracket", I started mixing them up. 07:17:11 answering your TA with "oui" when she just asked you something in japanese is certainly blush-worthy. 07:17:32 sykopomp: my friend once messed up German and Japanese, during our 2nd year of highs school. He wrote sentences with german words and japanese grammar :> 07:17:35 learn Arabic and apply for a Lima-22, you panty-waisted, quiche eating suckers :-P 07:17:45 The Man is still hiring 07:17:46 p_l: that's *bizarre* 07:18:10 sykopomp: I'm waiting for reality to stop making *any* sense :) 07:19:11 p_l: happens a lot. 07:19:22 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 07:19:28 *fusss* had to write CFFI bindings for MaxMind GeoIP before he got drunk 07:20:31 everyone needs to examine the GeoCity Lite database. seems like it was crippled on purpose. dump that shite to berkeley db and see it fly! 07:21:24 sykopomp: I wonder when it will stop making any sense to the point of getting quantum effects on macroscale turning everything into Beyond Impossible scenario... 07:22:54 *fusss* is tired of running ldconfig after every`make install` 07:23:22 fusss: Are you using any concrete binding for BDB? 07:23:24 you still have to do that? :) 07:23:45 hefner: enlighten moi, what do i need to do to not do that? 07:23:57 p_l: Elephant. really. the best i could do. 07:24:13 hmmm 07:24:21 ejs1 [n=eugen@197-108-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:32 I was looking for some kind of inspiration for a lisp api for TC... 07:24:48 i prototype on elephant and deploy on rucksack .. can i get an amen (or a "wtf?")? 07:25:09 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@234.Red-79-153-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 07:25:09 I never managed to get elephant to work. 07:25:10 fusss: dunno, stop compiling things I guess. I remember doing that a lot back before I found a decent linux disto. Lately I usually forget; nothing breaks. 07:25:18 so i'll give you kudos for getting that thing to even run. 07:25:24 or maybe just a golf clap. 07:25:38 hefner: slackware here. what's your idea of decent? 07:25:54 starts with a #\d 07:26:02 *sykopomp* uses Arch, is incredibly smug about it. 07:26:06 ebian? 07:26:15 ufff 07:26:15 *sykopomp* finds debian to be incredibly lacking as a distro. 07:27:37 serves me great for more than a decade, but perhaps my needs are too modest 07:27:57 *guaqua* likes using the lacking distro. no lack of time due to compiling irrelevant programs to my own work 07:27:58 (like not touching linux-based desktops if I can help it) 07:28:46 I used to have great fun recompiling X and GDK/GTK/GIMP all the time, and building custom kernels with no modules, but time marches on. 07:28:49 not a big fan of debian's package management. 07:28:55 I prefer a rolling release model 07:29:13 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-109.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:29:15 I ran gentoo for a while. That was hell on earth. 07:29:16 now that i have your attention people, does anybody want to attend an skype presentation for my startup? launch date is June 1st and i will be speaking to a journalist on the 28th of this month on Skype or GoToMeeting. it's a Lisp shop, so please just attend. email me at bigthingist@gmail.com 07:29:21 I ran debian for a while, too :) 07:29:44 oh, where are the times when a desktop distro didn't have to compromise stability, use weird shit like HAL, PolicyKit etc. and just simply stepped aside when you wanted to get "dirty"? 07:30:06 creating your own debian packages is hell 07:30:17 sykopomp: i like arch too, doesn't get in your way, pacman is very nice 07:30:36 other than that, it's pretty much what i need 07:30:36 danlei: from what I read, it's probably the closest thing to fbsd, shy of fbsd. 07:31:03 what the hell is hald doing, anyway? What a daemons and duct tape crap. Kinda like playing music files through a headless daemon, but stupider. 07:31:14 (..a bunch of..) 07:31:40 hefner: something with acpi and notifying of connected usb drives etc? 07:31:45 sykopomp: i used fbsd for about two years. it's close (for a linux distro), but there are still much differences. i used to complile a lot under fbsd. i found the docs of fbsd superior, very nice handbook. 07:32:17 i personally just use acpid, but do like the fact that i don't have to mount disks by hand when i connect them 07:32:20 guaqua: nearly everything hal does can be done with udev 07:32:31 guaqua: yeah, well, screw that. linux distributions are growing daemonitis. I suspect most of them are indicative of underlying design flaws. 07:32:50 * many differences 07:33:07 and I *hate* it mounting stuff behind my back. if I have to explicitly unmount a disk to remove it safely, I might as well mount it explicitly too. 07:33:15 p_l, hefner: social reasons. ubuntu devs (?) couldn't break udev like they wanted to or didn't know how and they decided to write their own? 07:33:30 danlei: an fbsder friend always whines at me about how awful the man pages on linux are. 07:33:50 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:33:53 sykopomp: they are. 07:34:04 an, ubuntu, the operating system that showed my second hard disk on the desktop as "removable disk" 07:34:08 hefner: use cases change, it's harder to change a working and tested daemon than create a new one 07:34:16 at least some of them tell you to go read the info docs :) 07:34:33 hefner: i click to mount, click to unmount 07:34:41 sykopomp: one of the things that annoyed me most on arch was the documentation (man-pages as well as the absence of such a nice handbook) 07:35:57 sykopomp: but, in general, i'd prefer archlinux for a desktop box. compiling things like kde and stuff just takes too much time, and pacman really is great. 07:36:48 guaqua: HAL wasn't made by Ubuntu. Also, you can add local rules to udev 07:37:19 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@197-108-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:37:46 guaqua: click what? the first thing I do is turn the whole desktop disaster off and run sawfish :) 07:38:00 p_l: that was just my guess. well, whoever created it, could have had that kind of thoughts 07:38:03 danlei: The wiki is fantastic. 07:38:24 danlei: one of the things that kept me using gentoo for two years was how fantastic the wiki was. 07:38:48 -!- ejs [n=eugen@197-108-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:39:01 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 07:40:15 sykopomp: the arch-wiki? it's nice, but freebsd spoiled me, as far as docs are concerned. i also don't like the idea of excluding package-specific docs. i somehow see the point, but, on the other hand, these days, i'm not lacking harddrive space. 07:41:33 sykopomp: ah, the gentoo-wiki ... never used gentoo. 07:41:52 it was pretty decent. Even as a general-purpose linux wiki. 07:42:32 but of course, gentoo was and still is a horrid mess :\ 07:42:37 so a wiki will only get you so far. 07:44:06 addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 07:46:31 shelducks [n=aver@ool-182f543a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:23 controll [n=nonamme@cpe-74-64-125-220.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:47:25 hi 07:47:36 anybody know of a site or guide for a beginners lisp intro? 07:47:40 besides 'casting spels' 07:47:45 but straightforwardness of 'casting spels'. Something that will work right away excluding 'hello world' 07:47:52 thanks 07:48:45 controll: are you experienced with programming? 07:49:26 controll: as in, are you already fluent and capable in another language? 07:52:22 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:53:01 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:53:09 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 07:53:43 Spanish and English and Catala 07:53:56 controll: programming language 07:54:23 *sykopomp* headdesks. 07:54:33 beach: I am speechless. What should I do? 07:54:47 sykopomp: Sorry, I have no advice. 07:55:31 no 07:56:03 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.139.26] has joined #lisp 07:56:17 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 07:56:20 minion: tell controll about PCL 07:56:21 controll: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 07:56:39 I think gentle would probably be better for him. 07:56:48 maybe so, yes. 07:56:48 if he doesn't know how to program, he'll be completely lost with pcl 07:56:54 minion: please tell controll about gentle 07:56:54 controll: look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 07:57:03 -!- divia [n=divia@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 07:57:10 controll: I learned lisp with that book. It's a bit outdated, but it's fantastic. 07:57:21 controll: once you're done with Gentle Intro, move on to PCL, and you're golden :) 07:59:02 mm.. ok pretty much I knew those already, I was hoping for a step by step quik example. I guess there's no way out, books await me.. 07:59:59 mm.. how is clisp? 08:00:15 controll: the implementation? 08:00:40 is not a compiler? 08:00:43 we refer to common lisp as "CL" or just "lisp". clisp is an implementation of the language. 08:00:58 it's more of a shoddy interpreter than a compiler 08:01:00 -!- Fuufie is now known as Fufie 08:01:05 *sykopomp* gets a good jab in. 08:01:29 shoddy?? ok I'll stay away from it. 08:01:38 controll: what platform are you on? 08:03:21 linux 08:03:43 I use the sbcl/ccl combo. 08:03:55 sbcl is fantastic, and you'll get plenty of support for it in this channel. 08:04:11 CCL is also fantastic, and compiles -much- faster (and is supposedly more stable on some platforms) 08:04:41 they're both good, solid, high-speed implementations. Optimized for 'awesome. 08:04:53 what's the package name in linux? 08:04:54 luism [n=dizpater@173-117-197-148.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:07 that depends on the distro. 08:05:09 :\ 08:05:16 search for SBCL and Clozure 08:05:43 sorry to knock on clisp, but I think i've finally given up any hopes of getting anything useful done with it. 08:06:05 It's surprisingly resistant to anything but the most trivial of lisp code. 08:06:49 I got sbcl 08:07:35 go with that for now :) 08:08:29 I think is mcclim in gentoo 08:09:05 uhhh 08:09:06 no 08:09:15 mcclim is a gui 08:09:48 ah 08:10:04 *controll* pukes 08:10:19 um? 08:10:30 maybe he's got swine flu 08:10:44 oh no! 08:10:54 *danlei* laughs 08:14:45 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-200-223.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:10 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 08:18:24 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-200.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:20:11 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 08:21:19 -!- rjack_ [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 08:21:56 -!- dizpater [n=dizpater@68-29-44-37.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:23:18 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 08:23:44 ejs [n=eugen@92.112.106.124] has joined #lisp 08:24:15 -!- luism [n=dizpater@173-117-197-148.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:24:19 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp002.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 08:36:15 Is it possible to break loop when collect, collects more than 1 element ? and return this 2 elements ? 08:36:24 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 08:37:36 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 08:37:49 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 08:40:09 addled [n=adl@77.208.14.146] has joined #lisp 08:40:19 I was thinking about making new list, and add element to the list, then check its length. But maybe (for sure?) there is easier way to do it ? 08:40:38 -!- xan-afk_ is now known as xan 08:41:19 what do you want to do? 08:42:01 Mrspec annotated #79891 "finalver" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79891#9 08:42:14 I have this solving function. 08:42:19 sure, (loop when (foo) collect (bar) into baz until (= 2 (length baz)) finally (return baz)) 08:42:57 asymptotically stupid if the number were much greater than 2, of course 08:43:00 I'd like to return list (with 2 solutions) when there is second solution 08:43:00 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-200-223.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:43:53 thx hefner 08:46:55 nite! 08:47:02 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-117-174.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 08:48:04 tombom [i=tombom@82.26.95.28] has joined #lisp 08:48:27 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.112.106.124] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:50:53 -!- karvus [n=thomas@193.213.35.168] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:51:45 segyr [n=terje@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:52:04 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 08:57:37 -!- envi^laptop [n=envi@115.94.144.228] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:59:21 -!- Baughn [n=svein@084202037181.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:02:50 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@84.46.38.138] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:13:44 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:17:12 Jabberwockey [n=jens@84.46.53.231] has joined #lisp 09:21:43 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@82.181.229.41] has joined #lisp 09:21:49 good morning 09:22:00 i have just broken the build, please hold... 09:26:22 *Krystof* drums fingers 09:27:07 should be better now 09:27:38 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-30-237.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 09:27:46 didn't actually save the buffers for test build, saved them for commit... 09:28:00 well, buffer 09:28:27 what's a good version.lisp-expr? 09:28:37 I was just about to build and do chores 09:29:10 1.0.28.34 09:29:15 should be the next 09:29:35 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:29:37 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 09:31:59 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-30-148.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:35:45 jmbr [n=jmbr@184.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:36:00 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2E17A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:37:47 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp002.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 09:37:57 -!- rootzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-175-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:38:30 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 09:46:48 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 09:50:34 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 10:00:32 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 10:01:46 nikodemus: do you mean 1.0.28.33? 10:03:25 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [] 10:05:08 valvola [n=fabiovio@pc85108.unile.it] has joined #lisp 10:06:42 that's HEAD 10:07:19 hele_ [n=e@host53-177-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:07:40 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:07:43 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:07:49 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp002.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 10:08:46 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:08:57 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:09:32 me too 10:10:20 guys, I've made my package foo with a function bar in it, yet I'm getting a function undefined error. I tried getting in the package using (in-package :foo), yet the error persists, and when I use the foo:bar, it warns that the function is not external, and then yields the same "undefined function" error... Any idea of what could be happening? 10:11:20 you're doing something wrong 10:11:38 have you read the packages chapter in pcl? 10:11:47 Jarvellis [n=jarv@217.155.101.22] has joined #lisp 10:12:18 nikodemus: yes, I'm actually following it 10:12:23 nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:30 G'morning all. 10:12:37 Good morning! 10:15:18 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 10:19:57 ah-ha! 10:20:16 I wasn't including an (in-package) in my file 10:20:34 Hrm... I guess it was too much to hope for there to be some 16-bit data access from the x86 assembly routines. 10:22:29 Ragnaroek [i=54a6627e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1dca8cf93fd427cd] has joined #lisp 10:22:52 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 10:25:48 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:28:10 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:28:52 puchacz [n=puchacz@87.194.5.99] has joined #lisp 10:32:33 So, does anyone have any ideas as to why subtypep wouldn't work during toplevel processing in cold-init? 10:33:24 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:33:43 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 10:33:43 subtypep on which types? 10:34:35 (unsigned-byte 21) and (unsigned-byte 31). 10:34:52 That's my current best-guess on the latin-9 bug. 10:35:38 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:35:54 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:36:19 Basically, full calls to make-array at that point only create specialized arrays if it's passed a specialized array type directly. If the element-type would have to be upgraded to a specialized type it gets upgraded to T instead. 10:37:02 The only reason latin-9 works on 32-bit ports is because the upgraded type that the compiler expected is unsigned-fixnum, which is stored tagged. 10:40:41 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@82.181.229.41] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:41:05 *type-system-initialized* is still nil at that point 10:41:33 Yes, but there's explicit commentary above in cold-init to the effect that some things are being set up so that make-array works. 10:41:51 And that's the point where I got lost, as the type system is still a bit beyond me. 10:42:29 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:45:12 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E31B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:10 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:53:26 -!- hele_ [n=e@host53-177-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 10:56:36 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-219-182.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:57:01 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:58:54 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88.149.210.70] has quit ["Valete!"] 10:59:19 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:03:12 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:04:31 is clozure cl any good on windows 11:06:53 danlei [n=user@pD9E2E17A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:35 Vegan [n=sdfpme@113.77.207.110] has joined #lisp 11:10:04 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:21 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:14:59 nyef: the type system initialization is twisty and horrible 11:15:11 Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-29-87.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:16:44 I gathered that. 11:16:49 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 11:16:54 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@184.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:21:08 -!- valvola [n=fabiovio@pc85108.unile.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:31:50 is there any function to join "/home/foo/desktop/index.txt" to "../bar/spam.txt" yielding "/home/foo/bar/spam.txt"? 11:35:49 merge-pathnames, maybe? 11:36:01 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 11:36:15 Though that's getting into one of the nasty parts of CL. 11:36:34 (merge-pathnames (make-pathname :directory (pathname-directory "/home/foo/desktop/index.txt")) "../bar/spam.txt") => #P"/home/foo/desktop/spam.txt" 11:37:34 jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 11:38:28 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-219-182.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 11:39:24 vy: Thanks! 11:41:07 -!- projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has left #lisp 11:45:22 jsoft__ [n=Administ@118-92-185-116.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:50:06 -!- |stern| is now known as seelenquell 11:55:58 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Success] 11:56:44 manuel___ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 11:58:01 -!- jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:01:09 is there a function that replaces all occurrences of a pattern in a string? not like replace where you simply turn part or all of string a into part or all of string b 12:01:46 substitute ? 12:02:11 jimi_hendrix: A pattern? A regex pattern? 12:02:18 here pattern is limited to one character 12:02:20 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CAB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:16 -!- manuel___ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 12:03:22 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-70.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 12:05:58 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 12:06:40 stassats, thats what i want 12:07:15 bhyde [n=bhyde@c-66-30-202-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:06 hmmm merging "/home/foo/" with "../bar" is not yielding "/home/bar" here in sbcl :( any workaround? 12:14:27 stassats, why is (substitute "z" "a" "abcba") not returning "zbcbz"? 12:14:53 #\z #\a 12:15:06 (because they are not characters) 12:15:16 but strings of one character 12:16:12 stassats, well what if i wanted (substitute "ab" "ba" "bababa")? its not returning "abababa" 12:16:27 that wont work 12:16:32 as i said before, it works only on one element 12:16:54 oh i misread then, sorry 12:17:14 stassats, what would i do in the above example then 12:17:31 i'd use cl-ppcre 12:18:25 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-200.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:18:38 stassats, which is a lib for... 12:18:55 regular expressions 12:19:24 ok 12:20:46 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:23:48 konr: Which SBCL version, on what platform? 12:24:18 schmx [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 12:24:51 vy: 1.0.25 on Debian Linux 12:25:01 konr: Anyway, in SBCL 1.0.24.48 (merge-pathnames (make-pathname :directory "/home/foo") "../bar") => #P"//home/foo/bar" 12:25:29 konr: Also, check out cl-fad. 12:25:33 ,cl-fad 12:25:39 minion: cl-fad 12:25:40 cl-fad: CL-FAD is a portable pathname library based on code from Peter Seibel's book Practical Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cl-fad 12:25:49 milanj [n=milan@77.46.210.192] has joined #lisp 12:26:15 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.231.126] has joined #lisp 12:27:26 vy: haha, I think I have it implemented in my box! Anyway, have you got any idea of how to get "/home/bar" from these two pathnames? 12:28:08 (merge-pathnames (make-pathname :directory "../bar") (make-pathname :directory "/home/foo")) works on ccl 12:28:09 (merge-pathnames #p"../bar" #P"/home/foo/") 12:29:10 konr: You know about `USER-HOMEDIR-PATHNAME', right? 12:29:32 nyef_ [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:32 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:29:43 -!- nyef_ is now known as nyef 12:32:01 vy: yes, /home/foo it was just an example 12:36:27 hmmm, (make-pathname :directory "../foo") yields #P"/..//" :( 12:37:05 Would it make sense to have the compiler transform calls to make-array with constant element-type to pass the upgraded element-type instead? 12:37:42 konr: (make-pathname :directory '(:relative :up "foo")) ? 12:40:12 Been struggeling with logical-pathname-translations myself, in a attempt to make my directory setup more portable. 12:41:13 Logical-pathname-translations and portable in the same sentence without a negation? Umm... 12:41:48 for me they work fine on linux, unix, and mac os x ... 12:41:55 nyef: That was the struggle bit ;) 12:42:08 danlei: They're not portably defined between lisp implementations. 12:42:10 ... and windows too 12:42:34 yes, i have my translations set up in the according startup-file of the implementation 12:43:21 Good afternoon. 12:43:21 so while they're slightly different, i don't have to worry what machine/implementation i'm working at 12:44:01 Hello beach. 12:46:59 The main trouble with windows pathnames is that they (LispWorks and AllegroCL) can't agree wether C: is a device or a host since in a sence it can be either or borth. 12:47:29 It's clearly a device. 12:47:44 Not over a network. 12:47:55 Oh? 12:48:29 Okay, technically, it's clearly a logical-pathname-host. But getting -that- to work properly would be a pain. 12:48:53 right 12:49:08 It's also exposed as a device, therefore it's a device. 12:49:19 well, under ccl/cygwin, for example (setf (logical-pathname-translations "dhl") '(("tmp;**;*.*.*" "e:/cygwin/tmp/**/*.*"))) works fine for me ... 12:49:36 ccl has a -cygwin- port? 12:49:55 (t-l-p "dhl:tmp;") -> #p"e:/cygwin/home/danlei/home/" 12:50:05 no, i just run emacs under cygwin 12:50:10 Ah. 12:50:21 I actually have both cygwin and nt emacs. 12:50:23 and most files are under the cygwin directories, i'm more used to it 12:50:37 Even made them both run the same .emacs. 12:51:34 Anyway, what ended up killing LPNs for me in the general case is that they don't like underscores. 12:52:03 i would have to make a decent .emacs with conditionals for the different os, but atm i just use cygwin emacs. the pain is, for example, not to have working M-. and C-c in slime, when i use ccl ... 12:52:55 Umm... That's fixable. 12:52:59 how? 12:53:15 There are two methods, depending on if you have the slime-tramp contrib loaded or not. 12:53:35 That hint and the existence of cygpath should be enough to get you started. 12:53:37 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E31B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:53:39 not atm, which method would be preferable? 12:54:01 I'd prefer the version with slime-tramp, but am currently running the other version. 12:54:21 hm ... i'll ask google about cygpath (i usually run linux or os x, so the setup is a little messy atm) 12:54:24 (Didn't realize that it had been moved out there and didn't have it loaded when I set things up last time.) 12:54:33 jmbr [n=jmbr@184.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:55:16 and what exactly do you mean by "do not like underscores"? 12:55:56 SBCL pitches a fit. Something about them not being a legal character in an LPN. 12:56:04 oh 12:56:30 nyef pasted "cygwin slime pathname fix" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79929 12:57:17 nyef: thank you 12:58:01 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 12:58:34 minion: paste 25668? 12:58:34 Paste number 25668: "The relevant part of my cygwin .emacs file for slime." by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/25668 12:58:50 HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:58:57 hm, on my system, stuff like (t-l-p "dhl;lisp;foo.lisp") -> #p"e:/cygwin/home/danlei/coding/lisp/_foo" seems to work 12:59:07 *danlei* checks out the pathname fix 12:59:13 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Client Quit] 12:59:16 Because the second side is not an LPN, it's a PPN. 12:59:25 HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:59:32 So if I were to re-do it, I'd go with slime-filename-translations and cygpath. 13:00:15 Which gets the better interface to slime and the reliability of not using an ad-hoc reimplementation of two specific cases of cygpath. 13:00:28 hm, that's pretty much how i use LPNs, i set the translations up once, then use them like (with-open-file (f (t-l-p "dhl:... 13:01:22 Sure. It's when you need to open #p"hyperspec:data;map_sym.txt" that the problem occurs. 13:01:50 lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 13:02:16 Hun [n=Hun@vpn18-174.RZ.FH-Augsburg.DE] has joined #lisp 13:04:16 mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f35a67792c8c8fa0] has joined #lisp 13:05:12 nyef: Something like that could go into a slime-cygwin contrib, perhaps? 13:05:56 tcr: Perhaps. Just remember to make it not break if someone tries to load it on non-cygwin. 13:06:12 Also note that it shouldn't apply to cygwin clisp, etc. 13:06:16 blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:23 Nyef: what's the "\n" bit? Doesn't Lisp gobble up the slash and produce "n"? 13:06:47 younder: emacs lisp? No. It uses C-style strings. 13:06:58 Ahh sorry 13:10:32 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:37 -!- mziulu [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f35a67792c8c8fa0] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 13:16:23 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2E17A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:18:24 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@184.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:18:25 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:19:09 danlei [n=user@pD9E2E17A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:38 -!- Martinp23 [i=martinp2@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:20:49 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 13:21:16 hm 13:21:37 funcall: Invalid function: (lambda (filename (replace-regexp-in-string " " "" (shell-command-to-string (concat "cygpath -m " filename))))) 13:21:51 s/" "/""/ 13:21:54 (filename) ? 13:22:04 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-141-156-215-133.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:13 sec 13:22:28 ah, one paren missing 13:22:54 Oh, it's not one paren missing on my end. Clearly, I haven't tested this recently. 13:23:24 It's one paren misplaced here, as the form has good overall paren-balance. 13:23:51 Can't I just create a string "#P/home/konr/" and make it into a pathname somehow? 13:23:59 hm 13:24:01 strange 13:24:05 permission denied errors 13:24:15 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:24:17 nyef: no prob, got it 13:24:25 now i have some permission problems 13:24:48 I'll let you figure those out, then. 13:24:55 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl130.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 13:24:55 how can I get some information on a function using slime? 13:24:58 konr: it's already a pathname 13:24:58 sure, thank you very much! 13:25:03 stassats: No it isn't. 13:25:09 well, read it! 13:25:21 konr: C-c C-d d 13:25:31 or C-d C-d h 13:25:39 stassats: "#P\"/home/konr/\"" would be READable to produce a pathname. 13:25:45 stassats: mind it, if i annotate the corrected version? 13:25:57 danlei: no 13:26:11 (i don't know what are you talking about, though) 13:27:35 danlei annotated #79929 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79929#1 13:28:20 oh. you should've asked nyef, maybe he minds 13:28:33 If I minded, I'd delete the attachment. 13:29:08 oh, sorry 13:29:23 (somehow doubled it) 13:29:31 well, i'll check those permission errors 13:29:44 redundancy is good 13:29:44 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 13:30:38 i often run into those errors under cygwin, maybe i should have installed it as a user. 13:31:18 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:31:31 yesterday i had permission problems on libs, despite setting everything to 0644 and dirs 0755 13:32:05 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-140-52.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:32:30 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-109.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:32:36 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 13:33:31 -!- semyon [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:34:00 semyon [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has joined #lisp 13:34:49 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 13:35:01 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:35:17 danlei: I use ugo and +/- rwx options and can't read those codes anymore. Have you chgrp'ed the files and added the group to the respective users 13:35:30 ? 13:37:33 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 13:37:34 younder: no chgrp, just chmod 0644 * 13:38:08 Wow. Complete loss of connectivity, to the point of restarting the wpa supplicant and dhcp client twice, and I'm still here? 13:38:09 ah, working M-. ... much better 13:38:18 nyef: i owe you one 13:39:08 danlei: Not a problem. 13:39:51 Ah, I make a group 'developer,' give me and root access to that group and thus just set the group permissions, for shared files anyways. 13:40:52 theL00p [n=user@78.33.52.101] has joined #lisp 13:41:18 younder: way to go, under cygwin, i'm a bit lost sometimes, and if i want things to work chmod 0644 * is near =) 13:41:38 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 13:44:59 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:46:05 Now, back to trying to figure out a fix for bug 310132... 13:47:16 hm .. slime seems to want to write tempfiles to /siks. 13:47:24 * s1ks 13:48:02 It's actually a random tempfile name, I think. I've seen different base filenames. 13:48:02 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:33 *danlei* looks for temp-file-name 13:49:19 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:28 Getting the interrupt stuff working would be a nice trick... I think we'll need threads for that with SBCL. 13:51:50 -!- jao [n=jao@168.Red-83-33-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["leaving"] 13:52:34 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has left #lisp 13:53:24 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:37 -!- jsoft__ [n=Administ@118-92-185-116.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:56:19 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 13:59:04 elias` [n=me@194.81.255.254] has joined #lisp 13:59:28 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.139.26] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:00:20 kglovern [n=kglovern@CPE001d725da193-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:01:28 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 14:01:42 splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 14:01:46 morning 14:02:36 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit [Client Quit] 14:03:23 morning. 14:03:56 ah, (defun temp-file-name () (concatenate 'string "e:\\cygwin\\home\\danlei" (ccl:%get-cstring (#_tmpnam (ccl:%null-ptr))))) in swank-openmcl.lisp did the trick 14:04:59 Ah, the temporary filenames are assigned by the lisp? I didn't know that. 14:05:15 me neither .. =) 14:05:17 but it works now 14:06:14 i just grepped over the files in my slime directory and tried my luck .. 14:09:04 i could have dropped the #_tmpname call completely, but i'm not sure how to create a tempfile name ... maybe just a timestamp? 14:10:27 That gets into unfamiliar policy territory for me, I'm afraid. 14:10:48 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E460BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:49 anyway, everything works now, very nice 14:14:19 chrismay [n=user@d83-176-136-117.cust.tele2.de] has joined #lisp 14:14:28 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 14:15:20 Is it worth it to determine the length of a string at compile time instead of runtime? Or asked antoher way: how costly is it to determine the length of a string in contrast to a list? 14:15:44 O(1) vs. O(n) 14:16:11 sounds good, thank you 14:16:31 -!- chrismay [n=user@d83-176-136-117.cust.tele2.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:16:39 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 14:22:03 jophish [n=jophish@80-47-109-98.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:00 is there any other library to work the pathnames besides the PCL one? 14:23:44 iolib? 14:25:09 maybe osicat? 14:25:53 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.210.192] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:27:20 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:59 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E47880.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:29:37 sepult_ [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-25-187.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:31:37 projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 14:33:01 -!- kglovern [n=kglovern@CPE001d725da193-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 14:35:06 deliana [n=deliana@ABordeaux-158-1-99-81.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:35:41 hello deliana 14:36:15 hi 14:39:16 -!- deliana is now known as delqna 14:40:40 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.139.26] has joined #lisp 14:41:35 -!- projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has quit [] 14:41:50 projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 14:44:41 back to the LPN problem with underscores. i'm not sure, if i understood correctly, things like (w-o-f (f "dhl:home;_foo) ...) work for me. 14:44:48 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-100-62.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:45:22 using an underscore in a logical pathname is not portable 14:45:34 it may happen to work on some system, but it is not defined to work as standard 14:45:51 ok 14:46:03 is it a problem in practise, or does it mostly work? 14:46:05 And doesn't work on Super Pedantic Common Lisp... 14:46:13 hm, ok. thanks. 14:46:40 (SBCL, by any other name. The pronunciation is close enough, at least...) 14:46:59 *danlei* giggles 14:49:15 -!- Hun [n=Hun@vpn18-174.RZ.FH-Augsburg.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:52:14 pkhuong_ [n=pkhuong@24.201.189.110] has joined #lisp 14:52:48 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable007.79-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:53:01 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable110.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:53:15 for portability, I'd write (let ((*default-pathname-defaults* (user-homedir-pathname))) (with-open-file ("_foo") ...)) 14:53:35 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable007.79-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:53:37 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 14:55:34 Krystof: yes, thanks. it's just that i've grown somewhat accustomed to my translations ;) 14:55:54 and wasn't aware of that underscore issue 14:57:48 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.139.26] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:58:07 but anyway, it's just an issue with user input. if a program just needs some files to work with (e.g. configuration files), i'd stick with LPNs and just modify the translations. i somehow like the concept. 14:59:39 Yeah, LPNs are amazing when the work, but they don't work portably enough for anyone to actually use them. 15:00:06 lat__ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:00:46 maybe i just didn't realize the problems, because i mostly work with ccl atm 15:01:09 Maybe one should extend cl-fad to include glue for logical pathname translations. 15:01:40 cl-fad is by seibel, isn't it? 15:01:57 yes, and maintained by Weitz 15:02:16 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CAB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:02:31 i remember some passage in PCL, where he sais (about LPNs): just pretend they didn't exist ;) 15:02:38 (if i don't remember wrongly) 15:02:50 * says 15:02:51 Martinp23 [i=martinp2@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23] has joined #lisp 15:03:12 jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 15:03:33 Well, that's the usual approach. 15:03:45 -!- lat_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:04:37 Simply because they are so poorly specified that you get no guarantees as to what they map to, even with something as simple as uppercase/lowercase. 15:04:45 Question: is (read-from-string "`#2A((a b ,(+ 1 2) 4)(1 2 3 4))") legal? 15:05:10 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CAB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:14 I suspect not (from silence of spec and statement in CLtL2). 15:05:49 Possibly not. I believe it's supposed to be legal for #1A, though. 15:05:50 Actually, I mean the bacquote part, not the r-f-s part (in case that isn't clear). 15:05:59 nyef: Well in the case of 'case', it just sais they are case insensitive. I assume that means all lowercase letter under Linux. 15:06:04 nyef: i'll re-read what the spec says about them, i know how to use them, and set up my translations, but thats pretty much it. there seem to be many problems about them, i'm not aware of atm. 15:06:14 nyef: I think I agree. 15:06:15 Well, ` is always legal, but AFAIK, , wouldn't work in vectors or arrays. 15:06:24 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:06:27 pjb`: does with vectors 15:06:27 However, it depends on how the reader for #A is implemented. 15:06:32 Greetings. 15:06:34 younder: Really? It also says that they fold to uppercase during initial parsing. I'd take that to mean all uppercase on linux. 15:06:49 If it starts by reading a s-exp and then convert it into a vector or array, then , and ,@ could work. 15:07:02 or #(. 15:07:06 pjb`: There's a bug in the tracker for SBCL about the #1A case not working. 15:07:07 cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.111.18] has joined #lisp 15:07:17 nyef: Fold to uppercase when read to lisp. 15:07:40 nyef: Same as the default on the repl 15:07:50 backquote is specified to work on (...) and #(...) and nothing else 15:08:00 An implementation could choose to use a vector as a buffer instead of reading a s-exp. It would be lighter on the GC. 15:08:04 younder: Yes. Then case-insensetive when looking for files. But if it's a new file, then why not uppercase? 15:08:20 s/and nothing else/, but unspecified regarding anything else/ 15:08:33 kpreid: Are you sure? ISTR it said "vectors", not "vectors with this particular read-syntax". 15:08:43 As #1A reads a vector, it counts. 15:08:45 pjb`: CLHS 2.4.6, `#(x1 x2 ... ) = (apply #'vector `(x1 x2 ... )) 15:09:06 [for weak version of = ] 15:09:28 Yes. 15:09:33 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:10:04 what function would replace all occurrences of "foo" in the string "foo bar foo baz" with "foobar"? 15:10:14 nyef: logical pathnames are ment to read and write lisp files. It is not ment to map to all files in the OS. Still they shoud provide a reasonably workable subset. 15:10:18 jimi_hendrix: try cl-ppcre 15:10:24 What about: `(a #S(mystruct :field (a ,x c)) c) 15:10:34 danlei, ok, specifically, what function/s 15:10:46 nyef: Lispworks seems to have the same 'bug'. 15:11:24 younder: But when it's not portably defined, it's not portably defined. 15:11:24 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:28 jimi_hendrix: http://weitz.de/cl-ppcre/ 15:11:38 Basically, jimi_hendrix and I need something like python's "foo bar foo baz".replace("foo", "foobar") 15:12:21 jimi_hendrix: regex-replace would be the best fit 15:12:31 jimi_hendrix: com.informatimago.common-lisp.string:string-replace 15:12:56 dan_b, ty 15:13:00 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:03 nyef: I am just not convinced it is broken beyound repair, so I'll probaly just have to find out the hard way :) 15:13:14 s/dan_b/danlei 15:13:16 tab fail 15:13:45 nyef: or maybe not (not that I think you care, but for those following at home) 15:15:53 jimi_hendrix: actually regex-replace-all 15:16:03 danlei, ok 15:16:42 alec [n=alec@pool-96-237-2-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:35 nyef: I think pitman is the one to ask as he headed the ANSI comittie during the design of the pathname system. 15:18:41 -!- lat__ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:19:47 Can someone explain to me the #$@#$ algorithm Google Groups uses to decide which articles to expand and which to collapse. Grrrr. 15:19:51 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6627e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1dca8cf93fd427cd] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 15:24:34 gigamonkey: Heh, I gave up trying to figure that out long ago. I just hit 'expand all' and perform visual filtering. 15:24:45 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@113.77.207.110] has quit ["leaving"] 15:27:30 apropos of nothing (the mention of Google Groups reminded me), there is an _extremely_ useful Firefox extension called Aardvark 15:28:41 What does it do? 15:29:45 beach: lets you visually edit a web page by either hiding garbage elements or isolating useful ones 15:30:24 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:30:46 (the only downside is that I haven't found a way to save aardvark-edited pages to files) 15:31:42 cmm: What would you use it for? Get rid of annoying sidebars etc? 15:31:52 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 15:31:56 meingbg: yes 15:32:56 meingbg: what usually works for me is just selecting the main text element and hitting I (isolate) and then D ("dewidthify") 15:33:57 (after which I flip the screen 90 degrees and read the page in question like a book, but if you don't have a tablet-style notebook you wouldn't need or want to do that :)) 15:34:54 cmm: I see. sounds fair enough. 15:36:44 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-217.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:36:46 mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075595pcs.unl.edu] has joined #lisp 15:37:39 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 15:40:09 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-60-75.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 cmm: sounds like a iphone.. 15:43:34 cmm: or a good monitor 15:46:55 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 15:47:18 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Switching machines"] 15:47:55 splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 15:51:04 well, actual monitors tend to be more than 600 pixels high, so most pages would show OK as is when flipped 15:54:21 chris2_ [n=chris@p5B168142.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:55:19 ... Hunh. I never thought of it that way. 1280x800 rotated gives two 800x600 views and an 800x80 status bar... 15:55:52 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:56:53 nyef: 2 very long and 80+ char-wide frames 15:57:22 I was thinking emulation uses, acutally. 16:00:08 it's quite a mystery to me why there's no healthy vertical-by-default "programmer's monitor" market out there 16:01:08 Heh. I'm actually considering finding an external USB keyboard and a small artists easel and running my tablet that way. 16:01:10 cmm: because most programmers have two eyes placed horizontally, not vertically. 16:02:13 cmm: and "wordprocessor user's" monitor. Surely it's only PowerPoint (and video mixing?) that /has/ to be horizontal? 16:02:18 pjb`: a rotated 23" monitor is wide enough already. Less scrolling means I can scan faster. 16:02:21 pjb`: many of them also tend to maximize every window and hate to waste all that horizontal space on the right :) 16:02:47 My horizontal screen is split in two or three vertical windows. 16:03:03 No wastage, thanks to ratpoison. 16:03:13 Many IDEs have enough sidebar crap to take up a good third or more of the horizontal space, too. 16:03:21 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@68.126.209.44] has joined #lisp 16:03:52 nyef: cause and effect seem to be pretty muddled at this point 16:04:02 nyef, most IDE's also let you remove those 16:04:20 screen estate is like storage space. 16:04:39 only more valuable imo 16:04:53 It's like a cache for the brain. 16:04:56 I purchased a new workstation with a new widescreen lcd last year. The graphics card came with 2 ports, so I hooked up my old lcd. I'll never go back to one screen. 16:05:01 in short, Google Groups is a crime against humanity 16:05:04 You used to be able to get CRTs that could rotate from landscape to portrait, but ISTR they were mac-only... 16:05:16 cmm, why? 16:05:56 tmh pasted "Coerce a simple-vector" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79933 16:06:02 jimi_hendrix: you've used it and still need to ask? 16:06:24 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 16:06:57 tmh: (let ((counter -1)) (map-into (make-array n) (lambda () (incf counter)))) 16:07:20 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:07:21 cmm, i have only used it a little 16:07:34 seems ok, minus the spam 16:08:36 Could anyone recommend a text about general tree searching? 16:08:40 pkhuong: Why is that better? (I guess I didn't define my definition of better. I was thinking along the lines of clearer intent). 16:08:52 MAP-INTO is extremely underappreciated, if you ask me 16:09:04 tmh: less random consing. Intent is clear enough as soon as you give the function a decent name. 16:11:07 the thing about map-into it's that it's a hard sell versus writing a loop. 16:12:02 hefner: After 3 years of studying CL, I'm just now learning loop. I'm still haven't decided where and where not to use it. 16:12:10 s/I'm/I 16:12:26 Not sure how to fit it into my coding style. 16:12:27 that's terrible. I use loop constantly. Life would be a real hassle without it. 16:12:57 I've developed a certain affinity for DO and friends. 16:13:40 OMG DO WTF AARGH 16:14:11 I was sympathetic to DO early on, but gave up the idea it was more "lispy" and got sick of looking up the syntax. 16:14:17 DO has a strange tendency to not stick to my brain for more than a minute 16:14:38 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@68.126.209.44] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:15:13 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:15:22 -!- meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:15:42 I have found I cannot simultaneously partake of the DO-nature and the LOOP-nature. 16:16:03 kind of like all those all-in-one binding macros people sometimes write that end up needing 3 opening parens to bind to multiple values 16:16:06 hefner: Having to look up the loop syntax has been the impediment for me. I'm forcing myself to use it so that I'll be able to better identify where it applies, which will only happen when I don't have to constantly refer to Chapter 22 of PCL or the hyperspec. 16:18:14 So, I waste a lot of time writing something with DO, then expressing it with LOOP, then staring and the screen and thinking, "Those both look like crap." :-) 16:18:36 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCDBA9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:46 *tmh* waits for the iterate reference. 16:19:31 neener neener 16:19:41 ponch [n=ponch@host147-254-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:19:59 i found series quite ok for some things, but it got pretty hairy when i tried to write transducers. (off-line port issues) 16:20:48 Hi all, is there a way to peek a string from a stream as peek-char do? 16:20:51 another odd thing is that SBCL has seemed to compile a "loop for i below n do" loop more efficiently than (dotimes (i n) ..)" every time I cared to measure 16:20:55 i am trying to replace all occurrences of "()" in a string with NULL, but (cl-ppcre:regex-replace-all "()" "()" "NULL") returns "NULL(NULL)NULL" ... i have also tried with the ()'s escaped in the regex 16:21:36 If I broke into a function from Python, trying to do an M-. on another function in SB-C, it seems it's waiting for some lock to get freed. Why is that? 16:22:54 hefner: Yeah, I've never bothered to look into the significance of SB-LOOP. I have macroexpanded do and dotimes expressions that accomplish the same thing and the macroexpansions were identical, for the most part, which I thought was enlightening. 16:23:47 jimi_hendrix: are you sure you actually escaped the parentheses in the regexp? remember that your regexp is written in a string literal 16:23:52 BrandonWilson [n=a@216.71.225.62] has joined #lisp 16:26:07 kpreid, i tried with "\(\)"...and if thats a string literal, how should i try to escape them? 16:26:32 jimi_hendrix: "\(\)" is equal to "()" 16:26:43 jimi_hendrix: "\\(\\)" 16:26:47 jimi_hendrix: cl-ppcre takes a string in regexp syntax. if you pass "\(\)", well, that's the same string as "()" 16:27:00 so you have to actually include the backslashes in the string, as cmm shows 16:27:22 ok 16:27:26 so double escapes 16:28:23 meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:28 it's sort of unfortunate that common string literal syntax _and_ common regexp syntax both use #\\ as the escape character 16:28:32 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-239.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:28:39 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.151.111] has joined #lisp 16:28:48 latest slime version signals slime/swank version mismatch. Should I worry? 16:29:10 meingbg: It doesn't, it does only if you updated without having restarted emacs 16:31:05 tcr: I didn't update. One time when I connected, it just recompiled for no reason and then signaled the mismatch, I was wondering if it had automatic update or something. 16:31:20 -!- chris2_ [n=chris@p5B168142.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:31:36 tcr: After that I updated slime, restarted everything and get a mismatch 20090508 for slime and 20090130 for swank. 16:32:13 So your swank server is from the latter date whereas your slime frontend is from the former date 16:33:06 tcr: Other way around. 16:34:25 miningbg: I compile swank into the Lisp image as described in 2.5.3 in the SLIME User Manual 16:34:38 tmh pasted "Comments Please" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79935 16:36:06 tmh: Do you know ROTATEF? 16:36:40 tcr: I've seen it reference, never used it. I'll look at it now. 16:37:38 younder: What do you mean? Are you saying that's what I should do, or what's happened? 16:37:41 -!- Edward__ [n=Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-29-87.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["« La POO c'est bien beau, mais en C au moins on va droit au but. »"] 16:37:57 meingbg: pay no mind to younder 16:39:09 jsdey [n=robo3@ool-44c1fb41.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:50 tcr: Thanks. 16:40:31 meningbg: It's just makes things load faster. And I don't have to worry about the location of Swank, Until a new SLIME version comes along.. 16:40:48 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 16:41:29 younder: I see. 16:41:33 -!- sepult_ [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-25-187.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:41:55 younder: But you do have to worry about recompiling your image. 16:42:12 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-25-187.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:43:01 can i see the definition of defun somewhere? 16:43:05 *jimi_hendrix* is curious to see it 16:43:09 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.10.223] has joined #lisp 16:44:21 meingbg: Not recompiling the image. Just adding the stuff to the image and making a new one with that included. see the SLIME manual.. 16:44:41 jimi_hendrix: If you're using slime, M-. on a defun form should do the trick. 16:44:53 i'm trying to use dpaste.el to paste a region directly to paste.lisp.org from emacs itself 16:45:12 nyef, no slime :( 16:45:57 but i'm getting the error:- Search failed: "^Location: \\([A-Za-z0-9]+.*\\)" 16:46:08 can someone please tell me what i'm missing here? 16:46:08 So... (describe 'defun) will at least tell you which source file to look at. 16:47:57 rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:03 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E31B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:14 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:49:58 nyef, it says SYS:SRC;CODE;DEFBOOT.LISP 16:50:04 what would that be 16:50:36 Now you need to find the system source. 16:51:09 But that would probably be the file src/code/defboot.lisp. 16:51:10 You on SBCL? 16:51:55 -!- ponch [n=ponch@host147-254-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:52:12 http://git.boinkor.net/gitweb/sbcl.git?a=blob;f=src/code/defboot.lisp;h=ac72b1154973a5fb35b2ab3b0dbeef0561e6aa30;hb=HEAD#l170 16:52:19 jimi_hendrix: call translate-logical-pathname on it and find out. 16:53:08 younder: Doesn't quite help if it's a binary release. 16:54:32 spradnyesh pasted "problem with macro expansion" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79936 16:57:14 younder, the file that it says doesnt exist! 16:57:23 dtangren [n=dtangren@74.68.142.74] has joined #lisp 16:57:26 -!- meingbg [n=user@173-45-238-108.slicehost.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:57:28 spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@117.192.12.201] has joined #lisp 16:57:41 http://paste.lisp.org/display/79936 16:57:53 in here i've written a macro which uses cl-who functions 16:58:13 however the "cl-who" part is stripped off in the expansion (as can be seen in the same paste) 16:58:38 are you sure? 16:58:39 because of this, i think, i'm getting errors while compiling the function which is calling the macro 16:59:01 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-103-164.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 16:59:27 (far more likely, you are in a package where printing the package qualifier is unnecessary. Try (eq 'cl-who::htm 'htm) 16:59:27 -!- jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:59:50 jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:59:58 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 17:00:07 Krystof: yes, you're correct 17:00:23 but then why am i getting errors while compiling the function that is calling the macro 17:00:28 lemme give the function definition 17:00:34 1 sec please 17:00:57 spradnyesh annotated #79936 "function calling the macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79936#1 17:01:19 I don't seen any error in that paste. 17:02:06 jimi_hendrix: On my system it under ... "sbcl/src/code/defboot.lisp" so you would need the SBCL source 17:02:08 spradnyesh annotated #79936 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79936#2 17:02:29 does anyone have a plain text version of 'On Lisp' ? 17:02:31 pjb`: that's what i think too. but when i "c-c c-c" it, i get these errors http://paste.lisp.org/display/79936#2 17:02:33 younder, ah ok 17:05:04 spradnyesh1: http://lisp-univ-etc.blogspot.com/2009/03/cl-who-macros.html explains why. 17:05:42 and gives solutions. 17:05:46 valvola [n=fabiovio@host203-251-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:06:46 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.10.223] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:06:53 pjb`: thanks a lot 17:06:56 am reading it now 17:07:03 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.111.18] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:08:18 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:03 jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 17:11:29 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:26 -!- BrandonWilson [n=a@216.71.225.62] has quit [Client Quit] 17:18:46 mick_laptop [n=mick@clamwin/admin/mickhome] has joined #lisp 17:20:09 is there a way to uppercase something besides cycling through the str and using upper-case-p? 17:20:46 clhs string-upcase 17:20:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_stg_up.htm 17:23:54 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:23:59 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.139.26] has joined #lisp 17:24:45 addled_ [n=adl@77.208.117.176] has joined #lisp 17:25:33 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:25:46 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 17:27:45 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@74.68.142.74] has quit ["Leaving..."] 17:27:53 Good evening. 17:28:42 mogunus [n=user@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:11 -!- valvola [n=fabiovio@host203-251-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:30:48 Local forcast: mostly cloudy, highs in the 50s, scattered showers. My window: Completely overcast, and snowing. 17:32:18 you need a better window 17:33:17 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 17:33:17 It's not the windows fault. 17:33:25 It's the fact that it's in north dakota. 17:33:27 Reboot it! 17:33:37 nyef: are you serious about the snow? 17:33:55 Well, it might be sleet. 17:33:57 beach, its north dakota 17:33:59 But it's not falling fast enough to be rain. 17:34:01 what do you expect 17:34:09 beach: that's logical. Once you stop emiting CO2, you don't counterbalance the glacial era that's starting. 17:34:37 jimi_hendrix: I have never lived in North Dakota, so I don't know. I lived in Austin Tx for a year, and it could get pretty cold there, but usually not in May. 17:34:59 i am in NJ 17:35:22 pjb`: hold on, are you saying North Dakota stopped emitting C02? 17:35:37 we are about do for an ice age 17:35:49 specifically in north dakota only 17:35:53 *jimi_hendrix* jk's 17:35:55 Well, they never had that much emissions anyways ;-) 17:36:09 I'll let you guys have your ecological argument, I'm going to go find food and something else to do for a few hours. 17:36:26 *jimi_hendrix* resists north dakota food joke 17:36:49 nyef: bah, eating will generate methane, a much worse greenhouse gas than C02. 17:37:03 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:38:20 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:13 dizpater [n=dizpater@173-117-48-20.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:51 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-209-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:41:16 jimi_hendrix: what would such jokes be based on? 17:41:57 -!- addled [n=adl@77.208.14.146] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:42:02 jimi_hendrix: I am asking because my wife is currently spending time in NY (state) and she is absolutely horrified by the food culture there as opposed to here. 17:42:52 I thought that in NY there was a lot of Italian and French restaurant. 17:43:44 beach, something undeducated and incorrect about hunting for food in a barren area 17:44:02 eww French food 17:45:25 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:45:25 -!- Dave2 [i=Dave2@freenode/staff/dave2] has left #lisp 17:48:42 ejs1 [n=eugen@229-46-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:44 Does anyone know why the PROCESS-TOPLEVEL-foo functions take an explicit source path argument rather than binding *CURRENT-PATH*? 17:53:53 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 17:54:43 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@229-46-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:55:54 -!- mogunus [n=user@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:56:06 milanj [n=milan@93.86.213.148] has joined #lisp 17:59:31 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.45.120] has joined #lisp 18:00:55 chris2_ [n=chris@p5B168142.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:38 cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.34.31] has joined #lisp 18:02:17 -!- chris2_ is now known as chris2 18:02:55 jimi_hendrix: You don't like French food? 18:03:09 no 18:03:41 jimi_hendrix: You must have had some bad experiences then. Perhaps you should come spend some time in Bordeaux so that we can show you the right way. 18:03:54 -!- spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@117.192.12.201] has left #lisp 18:04:27 jimi_hendrix: In fact, a significant fraction of the Americans we invite here, end up staying indefinitely. 18:05:22 jimi_hendrix: That's a threat - the ones that don't like the food are fertilising the grapes... that's why they don't leave. (; 18:06:13 splittist: Bah, your experience is limited as I recall. 18:06:49 splittist: You are just to much of a coward to try for yourself. 18:07:00 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:07:15 splittist, lol 18:07:17 beach: my experience of everything is limited. The french food I have experienced (which is as much as possible) is excellent. 18:07:36 beach, also, i cant do i french accent 18:08:00 splittist: Well if you like it, you'll *love* Bordeaux. 18:08:06 jimi_hendrix: No need. 18:08:32 beach: I plan to! 18:09:08 splittist: As I have told you, the guest room is at your disposal. Just let us know a bit in advance. 18:09:53 beach, can i ask a sincere question about the french language? 18:09:53 beach: very generous of you! 18:10:01 jimi_hendrix: sure! 18:10:23 how do you get the 'o' sound out of 'eaux'? 18:11:03 jimi_hendrix: magic! 18:11:10 jimi_hendrix: That's a very strange question. You see how the French do it, and you do the same. 18:11:32 lol 18:11:48 it just seems long for one little sound 18:12:06 jimi_hendrix: You must be an American, right? 18:12:27 ofc 18:12:29 xD 18:12:44 an american would ask that 18:13:01 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [] 18:15:34 jimi_hendrix: Well, it is typical for Americans to live in this protected linguistic cocoon (that isn't even justified, given the Hispanic influence), whereas in Europe, we are so used to linguistic differences that such questions are so frequent they don't seem special anymore. 18:16:55 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-76-254-18-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:17:21 splittist: If you come at the same time as slyrus, we might have to find a hotel for one of the parties, but on the other hand, you would get a much better idea of the wine offering here. 18:17:45 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:18:17 beach, the cocoon has to do with the fact that we have such a large piece of land and a large amount of Canadians speak english...so we dont see anything drastically different without going down to Middle/South America or across the ocean 18:19:35 jimi_hendrix: How much bigger is surface of the US compared to the EU? I think it has to do with a different history rather than surface area. 18:21:45 jimi_hendrix: When I lived in the US, I was constantly surprised by the claim of individual freedom, yet what I saw was self-imposed uniformism in terms of food and other matters. 18:21:58 -!- addled_ [n=adl@77.208.117.176] has quit [] 18:22:03 beach, i mean that if i go and drive for 3 days to the west i wont see a drastically different culture or a new dominant language, whereas in Europe if i start in Italy and head north i will have to start speaking german before very long 18:23:43 jimi_hendrix: Yes, and I find this aspect of Europe fantastic. In fact, you don't even have to cross borders. In Franch, if you were to drive from Bordeaux to Paris (which would be silly given the TGV), you would absolutely *have* to stop a dozen or so times in small places where they have unique food that can't be had elsewhere. 18:23:55 *France 18:24:38 well america doesnt really have its own food, it has mixed up versions of other styles 18:25:08 jimi_hendrix: the US has excellent food. It is just so damn hard to find. 18:25:29 beach, +1 18:25:46 its normally in the small joints you think are greasy and bad 18:26:05 the top rated place for fried chicken doesnt even have tables 18:27:22 everyone knows the best italian food in america is made at home though :) 18:28:39 jimi_hendrix: Unless you come at the same time as splittist, you too can have the guest room, and I'll show you some excellent food. Be careful though, you might end up staying as well. 18:28:46 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 18:29:11 :D 18:29:42 ejs1 [n=eugen@226-154-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:22 Anyway, to get back on topic, I spent the day ironing out the details of optimal redrawing in CLIM. I can't quite decide what the right API might be, but I am fairly sure I have the details right now. 18:30:44 -!- jsdey [n=robo3@ool-44c1fb41.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 18:30:48 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 18:31:11 If I get another weekend or two where I can get this together, I'll submit the results of my thinking here. 18:32:36 xan [n=xan@62.78.225.40] has joined #lisp 18:32:49 beach, whata re you making 18:33:07 jimi_hendrix: I am planning CLIM 3. 18:33:14 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Client Quit] 18:33:28 CLIM 3? 18:33:28 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 3?. 18:33:43 minion: please tell jimi_hendrix about CLIM 18:33:43 jimi_hendrix: please look at CLIM: The Common Lisp Interface Manager (CLIM) is a powerful Lisp-based programming interface that provides a layered set of portable facilities for constructing user interfaces. http://www.cliki.net/CLIM 18:33:58 ah 18:34:09 beach, do you use slime? 18:34:14 of course 18:34:37 and do you used a version of sbcl you compiled? 18:35:02 jimi_hendrix: I usually get a binary from sourceforge. 18:35:23 jimi_hendrix: For a while now, I have been communicating with people like gilberth in order to make a new version of the CLIM spec, but this is going to take some time. 18:36:06 back 18:36:26 beach, nvm, found what i was looking for, thank you anyway 18:36:51 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.45.120] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:37:43 -!- xan [n=xan@62.78.225.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:37:54 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:38:26 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCDBA9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 18:38:34 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@226-154-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:40:54 nyef: re allocation regions, what do you think of something that blocks GC, allocates to temporary regions, and blits the return value to the normal heap? Unfortunately, the temporary regions would probably have to remain in the first generation until the next GC for safety. (The other option would be to fake a hard temporary allocation region, where stale references would crash hard) 18:41:04 s/allocation regions/allocation pools/ 18:43:50 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.34.31] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:44:09 *tcr* discovers M-m 18:44:56 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 18:45:01 jfactor [n=jfactor@student164-134.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 18:45:21 *beach* finds that his fingers know what to do, but can't recall, nor recognize key sequences. 18:46:28 is there something like python or perl's eval() in CL ( (eval seems to be a little different (eval "(print \"hi" 18:46:30 bah 18:46:32 *danlei* knows that feeling 18:46:45 (eval "print \"hi\"") doesnt seem to work 18:47:13 (eval '(print "hello)) 18:47:23 lisp code is made of s-expressions 18:47:34 beach: then just let your finger do the remembering, then type M-x view-lossage RET to see what they did. 18:47:35 jimi_hendrix: eval evaluates forms. The language is defined in terms of a reader that transforms characters into forms, and then only as forms. 18:48:15 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:48:19 pjb`: I don't consider this a problem other than when people ask me what I did, which is rare. 18:48:19 ejs1 [n=eugen@83-140-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:14 Same here. But emacs has a tool even for that situation :-) 18:49:20 jimi_hendrix: (eval (read-from-string "(print \"hello\")")) 18:49:29 ok 18:50:22 but most of the time, you won't need it 18:50:28 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:51:06 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-237-196.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:51:39 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-237-196.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:06 good example here 18:55:16 jimi_hendrix: what did you get when you evalled "print \"hi\""? 18:59:30 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:59:59 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 19:05:36 (eval "(print \"hi\")") 19:05:36 "(print \"hi\")" 19:06:06 strings are self-evaluating 19:12:06 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@83-140-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:13:50 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.139.26] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:15:52 I can't mmap from /dev/zero, but clearly OS X couldn't be posixier. 19:15:55 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-204-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:16:13 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@75.36.204.63] has joined #lisp 19:17:22 -!- segyr [n=terje@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:18:24 segyr [n=terje@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 19:20:34 as stassats said. Literal strings are evalled just like lists and symbols, but their results are themselves, not a var deref or a funcall 19:21:53 jimi_hendrix: now, in the expression (eval '''what), if you can work out *when* each quote was stripped, you will have evaluation rules all figured out 19:23:20 segyr_ [n=terje@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 19:23:43 -!- segyr_ [n=terje@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has quit [Client Quit] 19:24:04 segyr_ [n=terje@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 19:24:13 nobody has done more to turn me _off_ clojure than André Thieme.. it's a shame really. 19:24:30 drewc: what did he do? 19:24:33 how's that? 19:24:39 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:04 he's a c.l.l troll. 19:25:37 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.151.111] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:25:50 -!- segyr_ [n=terje@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has left #lisp 19:26:15 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.227.142] has joined #lisp 19:26:16 segyr_ [n=terje@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 19:26:29 his dishonest advocacy has made me tired of hearing anything about clojure, and that's a real shame, cause i like clojure a lot. 19:27:12 -!- segyr_ [n=terje@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has quit [Client Quit] 19:27:48 hmmm... I found that I visit c.l.l approximately once a 1.5~2 months, read few threads, and leave in disgust... :D 19:28:06 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E31B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:28:57 segyr_ [n=terje@85.200.234.145] has joined #lisp 19:29:02 -!- segyr_ [n=terje@85.200.234.145] has left #lisp 19:30:52 p_l: i try to read every article written by the people who i respect as developers. Unfortunately, they've all been on 'thieme damage control' lately, which is like watching steven hawkings explain gravity to a bratty 5 year old who insists putting his hands in his ears and going 'lalalalala newton was right'. 19:31:49 "Steven Hawking" 19:32:34 we used to have (maybe the department still does) a noticeboard where letters to Steven from the "nutter of the week" were posted 19:32:58 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.101.94] has joined #lisp 19:32:59 Krystof: my bad, apologies to Mr. Hawking. 19:33:34 darn bignum cache. It's hard to be happy with allocation pools when they make everything bignum-related die. 19:34:17 what's the simplest 32-bit cryptographic-related algorithm that people can think of 19:34:32 drewc: 5yo brat is still better than flat-earth, no-gravity-exists etc. religious nutjob 19:35:13 rc5 is pretty simple 19:35:15 Dave2 [i=Dave2@freenode/staff/dave2] has joined #lisp 19:35:38 Krystof: That must be a funny notice board. Nothing posted on the Web? 19:36:05 pjb`: no, these were paper letters, often with green ink 19:36:31 ejs [n=eugen@83-140-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:47 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:37:18 -!- segyr [n=terje@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:37:31 it would be fun to see some perfs on the shootout magically go up by disabling the GC and use a 4GB region ;) 19:37:38 p_l: the problem is with a 5 year old brat that knows of newton, Thieme is _not_ a java programmer after all... Your brat can be dismissed outright, my brat might be listened to by one ignorant of the various theories of gravity. : 19:38:52 p_l: anyways, flawed analogy of course, i just wanted the visual of the fingers in ears. 19:47:23 segyr [n=terje@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 19:47:29 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:47:59 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 19:48:03 -!- segyr [n=terje@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has left #lisp 19:50:18 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-74-63.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:37 segyr [n=segyr@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 19:50:43 hi 19:50:55 what do the cl-foo packges? 19:50:59 there are a lot 19:51:09 nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-79-74.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:51:22 Well cl-foo will do foo. 19:51:58 are those command line programs or something? 19:52:02 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 19:52:17 controll: no. Most probably cl here refers to Common Lisp. 19:53:02 that I figured 19:53:03 controll: personnally, I don't like naming systems with names starting in cl-. But it's a useful convention to name package thus, to be able to identify quickly packages containing Common Lisp libraries. You could also have perl-foos and ruby-foos. 19:53:35 Notice that in the above sentence, package means "linux distribution package", not Common Lisp PACKAGE. 19:57:43 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 19:57:51 psheldr [n=Miranda@217.13.173.110] has joined #lisp 19:58:08 krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-126-253.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:58:57 yes that's how I see them in the manager 19:59:42 so let's say the cl-awk and cl-grep are the same as linux's awk grep? 20:01:36 not sure about cl-grep but clawk indeed provides awk-like functinality wrapped into a lispy syntax 20:02:08 (and the author chose to name it "clawk", not "cl-awk") 20:02:51 -!- projections [n=projecti@88.235.101.2] has left #lisp 20:03:28 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:03:55 does this mean a linux system can run with all those commands that are the same with the lisp port? 20:05:22 controll: these are usually not 1:1 ports because that would be rather pointless, so no 20:05:41 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:30 when you say the syntax is that the programs have been coded in lisp to offer the same functionality or is a wrapper using the C++ binary? 20:08:37 controll: usually they are reimplementations in CL, so that you can have similar tools inside *your* programs 20:08:39 controll: grep and awk are unlikely to be written in C++. 20:08:40 *michaelw* wonders whether he's participating in some kind of turing test... 20:09:06 err no 20:09:27 controll: clawk is pure CL 20:09:41 ah ok :) 20:10:15 bother, why is that type not subtype-able? 20:11:03 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@63-55.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["why indeed?"] 20:11:34 michaelw: I am a pre-beginner in both programming and lisp. I thought I could use a linux system with all the programs that are ported to lisp instead of the C++ 20:13:22 lisp philosophy is somewhat different from unix, so it would be pointless to copy linux tools 20:13:32 rather, creating something new 20:13:49 mm... 20:13:52 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-74-63.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:14:50 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:15:30 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 20:15:46 controll: that said, you could set up a system with some kernel of you choice (linux would do), and run on it only Common Lisp processes, as shells, scripts, daemons, window managers, etc. Even a kernel could be written in Common Lisp. 20:16:01 controll: there were Lisp Machine fully coded in Lisp. 20:16:04 logikbomb [n=mike@c-71-227-167-254.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:22 oh whereas linux needs awk, sed, etc something in lisp wouldn't necessary need those split packages to perform the same tasks. 20:16:30 controll: have a look at http://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html ; same could be done with some CL implementation. 20:16:33 pjb`: 'THERE WERE' 20:17:00 lisp machineS, yes. 20:17:22 yes but not now. I want it now. 20:17:27 Well, you can still get the software, it's sold under the name "Genera" in an emulator. 20:18:08 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:18:45 -!- ejs [n=eugen@83-140-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:18:46 -!- logikbomb [n=mike@c-71-227-167-254.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:18:48 controll: but for today, you may just consider that any CL implementation is a virtual machine running on Linux just like boochs or Qemu or user-mode-linux. You have enough OS level services defined or implemented in CL implementations that you may do all your computer things from CL. 20:19:02 controll: I suggest you first get to know unix well, then take plunge into CL 20:19:13 always know your environment 20:20:50 jao [n=jao@130.Red-83-38-59.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:57 controll: you could start with: http://clisp.cons.org/clash.html 20:21:20 mjf [n=mjf@r3a98.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 20:23:59 Odin- [n=sbkhh@130.208.131.159] has joined #lisp 20:24:23 thank a lot!! I way far off for that. But hey fancying is free :) 20:24:54 some ppl like sci-fi movies I like sci-fi OSes 20:25:18 minion: tell controll about movitz 20:25:19 controll: please look at movitz: Movitz is a Common Lisp implementation that targets the x86 PC architecture "on-the-metal". http://www.cliki.net/movitz 20:25:37 controll: try it, and start writting your own LispMachine OS :-) 20:26:49 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:26:50 ah there's lush too 20:28:28 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:28:39 chaitanya [n=chaitany@59.182.253.131] has joined #lisp 20:30:05 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-160-164-161.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:18 controll: if you want a mostly-written-in-lisp environment, I would recommend installing mcclim and clim-desktop 20:32:38 -!- dizpater [n=dizpater@173-117-48-20.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 20:32:44 thanks 20:32:59 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 20:34:14 -!- jao [n=jao@130.Red-83-38-59.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:34:15 controll: I just recommend taking a tour with Unix environment and its tools. It makes for easier learning of stuff later, when you know what you are interfacing with :) 20:38:02 jao [n=jao@239.Red-79-155-244.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:21 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.101.94] has quit ["this is not a quit message"] 20:41:40 -!- s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-168-232-25.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:42:23 mogunus [n=user@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:01 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-239.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 20:47:19 pfhaust [n=mike@c-71-227-167-254.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:11 jao` [n=jao@183.Red-83-37-138.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:39 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 21:01:31 Hun [n=Hun@vpn18-194.RZ.FH-Augsburg.DE] has joined #lisp 21:02:03 loxs [n=loxs@87-126-185-9.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 21:02:48 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:03:07 I got three psp's, I'll have different book on each :D 21:03:14 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-79-74.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:03:32 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 21:03:50 I cat add hyperspecs and casting spells too 21:04:03 -!- jao [n=jao@239.Red-79-155-244.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:06:10 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@59.182.253.131] has left #lisp 21:09:23 and you read them simultaneously? 21:09:54 two, i can believe --- one for each eye, but three? 21:10:27 -!- pounk [n=pounk@69-196-152-86.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:12:32 kglovern [n=kglovern@CPE001d725da193-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:38 -!- t [i=tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:16:15 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:17:13 t_ [i=tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 21:17:41 -!- t_ is now known as t 21:17:48 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:18:27 Is there something like dolist that will iterate over strings? 21:18:43 (loop for char across string do ...) 21:19:09 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:24 Thanks 21:24:40 jao [n=jao@82.Red-83-44-209.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:49 -!- jao` [n=jao@183.Red-83-37-138.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:28:22 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-38-59.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:30:17 -!- jao [n=jao@82.Red-83-44-209.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 21:30:38 pfhaust_ [n=mike@c-71-227-167-254.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:13 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-30-237.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:32:16 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit ["server upgrade, bbl"] 21:32:29 bgs100: or map 21:33:43 jao [n=jao@223.Red-83-46-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:03 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@84.46.53.231] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:34:25 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.231.126] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:37:57 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 21:38:02 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B168142.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:42:18 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:42:59 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 21:43:52 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.227.142] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:43:59 jao` [n=jao@83.36.223.129] has joined #lisp 21:46:48 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:49:41 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:51:54 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87.194.5.99] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:51:56 I'm stuck.. I've found out (I think) how to extract certain nodes from an xml file using cxml to parse it and xpath to get the nodes. That gives me a node-set, but I can't seem to get the nodes inside one by one to do usefull stuff with it. 21:52:07 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 21:52:33 I though using 'make-builder' with the cxml parse would allow me to use the nodes as stp nodes, but I must be doing something wrong... 21:52:49 s/though/thought/ 21:53:48 -!- pfhaust [n=mike@c-71-227-167-254.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:53:52 you're using the cxml-stp builder? 21:54:01 for starters, how do I get to the attributes of the nodes? the example on lichtblau's blog shows how to output the node name, and I can output the node-text, but I want to do stuff with the children and attributes 21:54:07 pkhuong: yup 21:54:14 (at least I think I am) 21:54:23 Have you tried reading ? 21:54:23 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 21:55:04 hhmmm.. missed that link on the cxml-stp frontpage apparently... I'll go look.. 21:55:06 thanks 21:56:03 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-0-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:00 -!- jao [n=jao@223.Red-83-46-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:57:06 How would you make it so loop would iterate over 2 strings at once, and assign the current char of the first one to char, and second one to char2 21:57:23 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 21:57:31 (loop for char across string1 for char2 across char2 ...), amazingly enough. 21:57:38 *char2 across string2 21:57:49 Oh, thanks 21:59:01 hmm... the problem I'm having is that I parse the xml file using cxml with an stp builder, then I use xpath to extract the nodes I want in a nodeset, but I don't seem to be able to get stp functions to do stuff with that nodeset... 22:00:24 -!- Hun [n=Hun@vpn18-194.RZ.FH-Augsburg.DE] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:02:00 thijso: how about the "Node sets" section of the plexippus-xpath API documentation ()? 22:02:16 -!- schmx [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:02:27 I'm an idiot... I left out the (format t "~a~%" .... when trying to debug what I got... so I got NIL on everything I tried... duh! 22:02:51 so I already had something working... 22:03:49 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.231.126] has joined #lisp 22:04:34 bgs100: you should use REPLACE. 22:05:30 bgs100: or also MAP: (map result-type (lambda (ch1 ch2) ...) str1 str2) 22:05:48 projections [n=p@78.180.224.198] has joined #lisp 22:06:28 Pegazus [n=awefawe@host182.190-224-189.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:08:40 -!- loxs [n=loxs@87-126-185-9.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:11:09 pjb`, how would I use REPLACE to iterate? 22:11:21 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 22:11:32 postamar [n=postamar@76-10-160-143.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:01 bgs100: if you wanted to store characters from one string to another, which was what I erroneously understood first. 22:13:22 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:14:08 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:31 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 22:15:12 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-140-52.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:18:07 newbie question: running sbcl in emacs and trying to get the cl-ncurses "advocacy" example working. Looks like it's running in the REPL but no window is actually showing up. Ideas? 22:18:09 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has left #lisp 22:19:15 -!- krumholt_ [n=krumholt@port-92-193-126-253.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:20:36 don't run sbcl in emacs 22:20:46 pfhaust_: see if its output is in *inferior-lisp* 22:20:54 that's where the lisp process's stdin/stdout goes 22:21:08 i don't think it would be any good 22:21:22 no; that was debugging advice 22:21:24 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-126-253.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:21:26 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:21:49 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:22:03 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 22:22:20 to make it actually work, what you want is to run a lisp in a terminal , do (swank:create-server) in it, and use M-x slime-connect to connect from emacs 22:23:21 -!- mindCrime [n=chatzill@cpe-075-177-141-190.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [No route to host] 22:23:22 blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:200:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 22:23:38 -!- jophish [n=jophish@80-47-109-98.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has quit [Success] 22:24:15 jophish [n=jophish@dial-80-47-3-226.access.uk.tiscali.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:26 I'll try using an external sbcl process, thanks stassats & kpreid. btw, inferior-lisp buffer showed some random colored characters but no errors. So it's probably what you're suggesting. 22:28:55 pfhaust_: actually, you could still run sbcl under sbcl, but not thru slime, inferior-lisp, nor shell, but thru M-x term RET which tries to emulate an ansi terminal. There ncurses could work. 22:29:10 benny` [n=benny@i577A0D15.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:29:43 pfhaust_: but if you want to use ncurses, probably you plan to use the application in some terminals, such as an xterm. You could then run sbcl there, activate swank, and connect to it as a remote slime process. 22:31:18 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:32:28 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:01 Anyone know if there's a lib for writing ID3 tags in mp3 file (and flac, ogg, and the rest if possible)? I found cl-mp3-parse on common-lisp.net, but the info there doesn't really give me anything... 22:39:05 Isn't that one of the examples in PCL? 22:39:11 thijso: have you had a look a PCL? There's a chapter about ID3, but I don't remember if it writes them. 22:39:40 When I have to change ID3 tags, I fork a mp3info command... 22:39:50 jao [n=jao@183.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:54 -!- V-ille2 [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe43fb00-66.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 22:39:59 pjb`: only read in PCL I think 22:40:08 pjb`: yeah, that's probably the easiest... 22:40:42 cl-mp3-parse is not about the ID3 tags as far as I can tell from a quick glance at the code itself 22:41:08 I'll just fork to mp3info for now... 22:42:06 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:42:14 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0B1F.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:42:52 -!- jao` [n=jao@83.36.223.129] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:47:49 -!- segyr [n=segyr@145.85-200-234.bkkb.no] has quit [] 22:49:22 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-76-254-18-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:29 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 22:53:35 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [] 22:53:48 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:54:14 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.213.148] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:57:30 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:57:57 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 22:59:14 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E31B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:18 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 23:02:53 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has quit [Success] 23:03:35 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 23:09:30 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-155-125.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:13:08 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [] 23:14:04 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 23:18:23 -!- pfhaust_ is now known as pfhaust 23:23:56 -!- benny` is now known as benny 23:25:19 -!- mogunus [n=user@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:25:41 mogunus [n=user@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:31 jao` [n=jao@147.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:19 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-25-187.netcologne.de] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 23:37:26 -!- jao [n=jao@183.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:41:11 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CAB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:41:27 -!- Dave2 [i=Dave2@freenode/staff/dave2] has left #lisp 23:41:58 -!- delqna [n=deliana@ABordeaux-158-1-99-81.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:44:07 -!- psheldr [n=Miranda@217.13.173.110] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 23:45:08 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 23:48:09 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-126-253.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:49:04 *froydnj* stares glumly at his failed AVER in cold-init 23:51:05 brandelune [n=suzume@pl481.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:52:39 -!- |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E460BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:52:57 dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-68-142-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:57 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 23:55:12 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-200.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:56:18 _8david [n=user@pD9541989.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:56:31 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 23:56:40 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:56:51 Can someone suggest a good audio library for lisp? 23:57:29 Michel Jackson 23:58:35 Ha