00:00:17 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-202-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:21 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-202-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:02:43 k90201 [n=chatzill@64.168.229.50] has joined #lisp 00:03:09 -!- ia_ [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Client Quit] 00:03:37 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 00:04:27 -!- milaz [n=user@85.172.106.73] has quit ["Bye!"] 00:04:47 -!- i2unn3r [n=I2unn3r@83.167.116.243] has left #lisp 00:04:49 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit ["brb"] 00:04:57 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:39 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:05:48 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:24 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-81-186.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:41 bhyde [n=bhyde@c-66-30-202-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:46 quoting a email from Gary Byers' of openmcl: "fixed in 1.3 and the trunk as of r12000" <- amazing rev number eh? 00:14:20 mips? 00:15:37 -!- slava [n=slava@li13-154.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 00:15:54 alec [n=alec@pool-96-237-2-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:03 come for the bots, stay for the conversation 00:17:05 we all know that common lisp is doomed anyway 00:17:26 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087AE28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:18:07 doooooomed 00:18:30 yeah, right. like Fortran and COBOL ;P 00:20:10 Fortress, Java/Python 00:20:13 bth live on 00:20:18 *both, even 00:20:33 -!- jao [n=jao@189.Red-79-155-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:21:08 due to legacy >_> 00:21:21 they live on their own, but what have java and python to do with cobol? 00:22:23 Fortran, COBOL, Lisp => immortal (undead?) languages :D 00:25:24 like latin, ancient greek and sanskrit? 00:25:49 stassats`: they're the Wayne Brady of languages 00:26:10 mainstream languages everyone agrees on, even though they aren't that great 00:26:34 sorry, I'm just a Python hater :P 00:27:37 anyway, they all had their niche as the business/default language when you mixed up a bunch of coders and forced them to agree on something 00:28:10 -!- k90201 [n=chatzill@64.168.229.50] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:29:33 k90201 [n=chatzill@64.168.229.50] has joined #lisp 00:37:55 Well, I know that I'd certainly choose Python instead of Java :D 00:38:06 -!- xan-afk [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:40:27 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:41:03 -!- etate [n=etate@bb-87-81-97-91.ukonline.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:41:47 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 00:43:27 dtangren_ [n=dtangren@cpe-74-68-142-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:43:36 -!- dtangren_ [n=dtangren@cpe-74-68-142-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:43:58 -!- dysinger [n=tim@64.65.187.250] has quit [] 00:46:24 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-24.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:51:57 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:55:25 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 00:55:52 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:56:09 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl334.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 00:56:29 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:05 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:00:40 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:00:54 rpg_ [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 01:01:31 Here's a bit of an odd question --- does anyone know of an example of using define-method-combination to implement delegation for CLOS? 01:01:36 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:01:46 wth is delegation? 01:01:55 -!- rpg_ is now known as rpg 01:02:20 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:42 S11001001: Instead of inheriting a method definition from a superclass, you get one of your slot-fillers to do it for you. 01:02:47 like DelegationPattern? 01:03:00 *hefner* requests attitude adjustment for S11001001 01:03:29 -!- S11001001 is now known as cl-user 01:03:41 *** Adjusted attitude for S11001001 01:03:43 -!- cl-user is now known as S11001001 01:04:16 hefner: Is S11001001 rolling too far ;-) 01:04:26 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 01:04:56 sorry I get all twitchy at the word "delegation" like at the word "node" 01:07:45 I think what you want may be compute-applicable-methods-using-classes 01:07:51 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.83] has joined #lisp 01:11:57 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@64.254.166.11] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:11:58 I don't know of such an example, but then I never understood delegation anyway 01:12:27 I just used a macro for the many times I did this on hfsbo.com 01:13:22 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 01:14:06 dysinger [n=tim@64.65.187.250] has joined #lisp 01:14:14 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633852.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:14:38 S11001001 pasted "a delegate method macro for the reader case" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79733 01:14:54 not really general purpose, just enough to suit me 01:15:05 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-4d3970c448e3801c] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:15:56 hmm, I guess that just calls another GF, not the GF on a slot value. Anyway... 01:16:31 hefner: I'm trying to do something evil. We have a piece of code that inherits methods from one of its superclasses. For complicated reasons, it really shouldn't inherit from the superclass. 01:17:28 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 01:17:29 It would be better if that other class was instantiated separately and incorporated into the original object. (i.e., instead of (defclass foo (bar) ...) we want (defclass foo () ((my-bar ...))) 01:17:52 without providing a boatload of delegation methods for class foo... 01:18:32 -!- k90201 [n=chatzill@64.168.229.50] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:19:04 Rewriting the bar defmethods with a macro that added a corresponding method on foo would probably also work, but wouldn't teach me how to use define-method-combination! ;-) 01:20:36 I still think compute-applicable-methods-using-classes would be your best bet, but you'd have to require AMOP 01:22:41 mop compute-applicable-methods-using-classes 01:22:57 *rpg* can never remember how to use the #lisp bots... 01:23:07 amop compute-applicable-methods-using-classes 01:24:57 k90201 [n=chatzill@64.168.229.50] has joined #lisp 01:25:38 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 01:25:40 S11001001: reluctant to use the MOP unless I have to b/c of compatibility issues (or requiring Closer-mop). And I think defining a new method combination will do the job. 01:25:54 since you can't specialize on the args anyway, I guess compute-applicable-methods would serve as well 01:26:00 actually, a macro would probably do the job, just as well... 01:26:21 as I understand it, you would have to mark all the defgenerics with your method combination name 01:28:49 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.83] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:29:00 S11001001: Probably doing something with funcallable-object would do the trick. Sadly, just replacing a few defmethods with a macro that defines a wrapper function would probably be the better choice. 01:29:24 -!- blitz__ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:200:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:29:27 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:200:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:31:29 Here's where having the notion of an interface would be helpful. What I really want to do is to say "take all of the functions in the interface of class1 and for class2 define new methods that substitute the my-class1 slot value of a class2 instance, and invoke on that. 01:33:05 rpg: YES. 01:33:47 that's an emphatic yes. 01:35:08 p_l: I'd pick Java over COBOL too :P 01:37:07 hm, these things are often hard to answer (a lot of context is needed to understand reasons etc.), but why do you want to do it this way?, rpg i do something that kinda reminds me of delegation by having interface methods/functions create instances of classes from a class hierarchy with a root, 'operation' .. then i pass that around to class1 and class2 by some 'observer' abstraction (or something) 01:37:11 -!- alec [n=alec@pool-96-237-2-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 01:37:16 chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:37 Adamant: Sometimes I'm not sure :D 01:38:13 p_l: read a COBOL manual and you'll change your mind very quickly :P 01:38:49 lnostdal: basically, there's a big codebase where class1 inherits from class2, and it turns out (for reasons of lifetime) that this was a mistake. It would be better to make an instance of class2 FIRST, and then insert it into an instance of class1. 01:38:59 But that refactoring is a real pain to do. 01:39:12 Adamant: Actually I started doubting after seeing a "Structured COBOL programming" book :D 01:39:18 I follow, except I don't like the idea of having an "interface of a class" so much as an independent notion of interface (protocol, whatever) and a way to act on it programatically (to generate the wrappers) 01:39:22 brandelune [n=suzume@pl104.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:39:46 hefner: Agreed. The notion of protocol is a good one; it's just unfortunate that there's no software entity that corresponds to it. 01:39:57 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl104.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 01:40:57 Fortunately, this code was written in a very java-ische way, so I even know that the class2 instance will always be the first argument. 01:42:03 UNfortunately, rewriting it with a macro is probably easiest, because it's not more work than marking each generic function with a method combination argument. 01:42:04 yeah, i haven't hardcoded anything about some-particular-interface-class(es) into the top-level 'operation' classes of course 01:43:49 *hefner* thinks of mcclim's encapsulating streams 01:45:49 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 01:45:52 If I find all the class2 (in this case "logger") methods, I can just replace defmethod with def-logger-method, and put the delegation in the macroexpansion of def-logger-method. 01:46:47 Sigh. The custom method-combination approach seemed so much more....evil. 01:47:32 oh, yuck. And I have to delegate any initargs appropriately, too. 01:49:32 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h59n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 01:50:41 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2F9CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:56 -!- danlei [n=user@pD954EFE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:50:59 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 01:56:42 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.83] has joined #lisp 01:57:28 what about fixing the user code? .. i assume the slot will have some "common name" now, like 'logger' .. and you'll have to replace 'foo-instance' with '(logger foo-instance)' a lot of places, perhaps 01:57:55 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 01:58:08 possible to automate somehow? .. search-and-replace? 01:59:47 i mean, if you need a 2nd class, also with a logger for it; you'll have to use a, maybe, delegate "hack" there too (?) 02:01:20 lnostdal: I'm failing to come up with an idea for how to automate the fixing of this. The def-logger-method really does what you are saying, but instead of trying to do it in the source code, does it in the body of the macro. 02:07:28 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.140.17] has joined #lisp 02:11:57 Phoodu [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:29 divinebovine [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has joined #lisp 02:13:48 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:39 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:14:49 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:16:25 tritchey [n=tritchey@68.58.88.241] has joined #lisp 02:17:23 -!- Phoodu is now known as Phoodus 02:24:37 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@68.58.88.241] has quit [] 02:24:50 -!- k90201 [n=chatzill@64.168.229.50] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:25:11 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 02:29:50 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:08 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:36:41 -!- kidd2 [n=kidd@221.Red-79-152-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:37:02 kidd2 [n=kidd@221.Red-79-152-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:01 jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:44 -!- bhyde [n=bhyde@c-66-30-202-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:41:27 hm, reader macros are kinda cool .. i never bothered with those before 02:41:52 -!- divinebovine [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:41:59 stole the idea with deref from clojure :P .. i'm also using it for a weird custom list type; http://pastebay.com/13914 02:42:51 HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 02:42:59 .. i wonder what else i've been missing out on .. i don't think i've ever bothered much with the printer stuff 02:44:01 jbmigel 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has quit ["leaving"] 03:12:42 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 03:13:21 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:15:26 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:18:06 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:19:11 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:19:32 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 03:19:37 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:19:57 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 03:27:00 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit ["leaving"] 03:28:00 Good morning. 03:31:42 dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-64-125-73.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:47 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 03:36:45 asdf's load-op with :verbose nil is still too verbose, is there a good way to keep it entirely quiet? 03:38:39 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:39:22 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-60-75.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:41:55 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:43:46 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:44:04 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 03:45:35 <_YKY_> How can I use closures to reify a point in program execution? 03:51:57 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 03:56:16 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.231.126] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:57:44 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit ["100 days are gone..."] 04:00:52 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:38 rullie_ [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:10 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-64-125-73.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 04:06:12 -!- jbmigel [n=jbm@S010600179a220e57.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:06:38 dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 04:13:32 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 04:13:56 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 04:14:23 -!- zbrown [n=rufius@unaffiliated/zbrown] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:18:02 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:19:39 _YKY_: by CPS-transforming your whole program 04:21:27 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-81-186.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:22:35 zbrown [n=rufius@70.99.184.110] has joined #lisp 04:26:54 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 04:27:01 jfactor [n=jfactor@student166-11.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 04:27:23 <_YKY_> I see.... 04:27:45 <_YKY_> Looks very complicated 04:30:31 rullie 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-!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-202-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:43:40 manic12_ [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:19 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-202-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:08 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-13-232.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:47:34 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:09 rullie__ [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:50:06 -!- rullie_ [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:52:15 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:52:24 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:56:10 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 04:57:28 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ce270eb9bbbe4c62] has joined #lisp 05:01:20 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 05:01:30 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:04:16 cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 05:04:19 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 05:05:26 i'm trying to create a simple asd by following http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 05:05:26 right now my asd file is something like just before the "Finish it (sort of)" section 05:05:26 however, when i try the command "(asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'stumpgrinder)", i get the error: "failed to find the TRUENAME of /tmp/package.lisp: 05:05:26 No such file or directory 05:05:26 [Condition of type SB-INT:SIMPLE-FILE-ERROR]" 05:05:46 the package.lisp file is in the same directory as the asd file 05:06:04 also, i've tried "(swank:set-default-directory "/home/pradyus/code/startup/fp-v2/")" but it did not help 05:06:31 so my doubt now is, is there something similar to javahome/pythonpath in lisp? i don't think so, but i'm not sure 05:06:44 can someone please tell me what i'm doing wrong here? 05:10:12 yeah. asdf takes the path of the system as relative to where you loaded the defsystem from. if you were editing/compiling interactively in slime, and you just recompiled the defsystem definition itself, slime would've written it to a file in /tmp and compiled that. 05:10:24 thus asdf thinks all your source code is in /tmp 05:10:46 you want to do C-c C-k on the defsystem file from slime, so that it compiles the whole thing in place (instead of some temporary file) 05:11:39 hefner: thanks for that tip 05:13:15 i'm trying C-c C-k as per your suggestion, and it (slime) tells me 'compiling /..../stumpgrinder.asd' but no flowing output is being shown. how do i know what is happening? please pardon my ignorance, i've started with lisp (and slime and hunchentoot and ... (there's so much in here)) just a few weeks ago 05:13:22 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:13:57 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.140.17] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:14:01 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit ["leaving"] 05:14:32 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-205-8.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:07 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #lisp 05:17:43 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 05:18:05 -!- mburns [n=mburns@ash.osuosl.org] has quit ["Changing server"] 05:21:50 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:22:18 Hello 05:22:25 hello MrSpec 05:23:20 Morning everyone. 05:23:29 hello tic_ 05:24:31 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 05:29:59 -!- aja [n=aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Client Quit] 05:30:22 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:33:48 saikat_ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 05:34:31 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:37:22 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.192.188] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:37:30 rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:38:34 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-ede270d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["bbl"] 05:43:10 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 05:46:29 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ce270eb9bbbe4c62] has left #lisp 05:46:59 rullie_ [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:53:01 -!- dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:54:00 -!- rullie__ [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:54:19 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:54:24 -!- rullie_ is now known as rullie 05:55:25 dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:58 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 06:00:05 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:02:00 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 06:02:11 younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 06:03:53 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 06:04:21 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 06:04:35 younder [n=jthing@84.202.13.251] has joined #lisp 06:08:48 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:15:28 mikezor [n=mikael@c-ede270d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:15:49 pinterface2 [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:51 -!- dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:18:41 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 06:20:12 Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has joined #lisp 06:20:59 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:06 dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:26 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-178.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 06:24:01 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 06:27:11 so #' will only operate on a symbol so saying something like #'(make-symbol "LIST") will always be illegal. in fact, any paren following #' would be invalid? 06:28:12 if so, couldn't you make #'(somefunc p1 p2) a reader macro for (funcall somefunc p1 p2) ?? 06:28:15 -!- cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:28:51 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6D350.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:52 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:30:27 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:30:52 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 06:31:48 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 06:34:14 ejs [n=eugen@253-102-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:54 splittist [n=dmurray@164-54.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:34:56 morning 06:35:43 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 06:38:27 thom_logn: You're forgetting functions such as #'(setf car). 06:38:40 -!- pinterface2 [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:39:53 pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:14 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:41:57 thom_logn: what's p1 and p2 in that example? 06:42:17 are they bound beforehand, or are they supposed to be parameters to the lambda you're defining? 06:42:47 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:42:53 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:24 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:43:39 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6D350.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 06:44:01 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 06:45:55 parameters 06:46:33 so if somefunc is a function of 2 parameters, what would you wish #'(somefunc p1 p2) to return besides just #'somefunc? 06:46:37 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-145-45.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:46:43 what does "#'(setf car)" do? 06:46:57 good morning 06:47:12 you know in actionscript or C#, where you have getter & setter functions on fields? 06:47:30 Just thinking of using it as shorthand for funcall. 06:47:32 that's basically the function that gets called when you do (setf (car foo) ...) 06:48:51 ah, so the syntax already has a use. All I wanted to know :) 06:49:09 afaik, it's only a special case for setf 06:49:14 not sure what else that form is used for 06:49:38 (defun access-something (params) ...), and (defun (setf access-something) (params) ...) 06:50:14 even so, I'll just think up a better reader macro symbol. Any suggestions? 06:50:17 that lets you do (setf (access-something foo) val), and the 2nd function gets called 06:50:20 for what? 06:50:36 do you want to wrap the call to something with filled-in parameters? basically a form of currying? 06:51:00 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.155.193] has joined #lisp 06:51:07 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.155.193] has joined #lisp 06:51:20 no, I just want to have a shorter way of writing (funcall funcvariable params) 06:51:43 oh 06:51:49 basically, you want scheme :-P 06:52:03 I grew up on scheme, so I hate the funcall syntax :) 06:52:07 but yeah, it's not all that much shorter to convert "funcall" to a separate "#'" 06:52:16 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.155.193] has quit [Client Quit] 06:52:50 not a huge savings, but the funcall thing gets on my nerves asthetically 06:53:10 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:53:34 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 06:53:53 thom_logn: So adjust your aesthetic sense. 06:54:09 it bugged me even before I ever saw scheme 06:54:13 That doesn't sound very lispy 06:54:18 If you want scheme, it's --> that way. 06:54:44 but the real issue is the value vs function-value, or whatever it's called 06:54:53 TimoT [n=tt@dhcp-pr-22.tml.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 06:55:19 mega1 [n=mega@3e44a6c7.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:55:29 I would be in #scheme if I wanted scheme. It's nice, I like it, but it has enough issues that I prefer CL (mostly) 06:56:51 possible SBCL bug: It seems to me that on SBCL x86-64 array-total-size might not work properly on dynamic extent allocated arrays; a routine worked nicely when I computed the array size first in a variable and passed that on, but crashed when I passed array-total-size instead. 06:58:00 yes, lisp-1 vs lisp-2... I don't really care much either way aside from the calling syntax. I see enough of the merits of L2 that I'm not going to try and troll #lisp about the virtues of L1 06:58:23 TimoT: do you have a test case? 06:58:44 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:58:47 it's complicated (calling into fortran, dgesvd says error in parameter 13 (lwork) 06:59:19 w8 06:59:27 thom_logn: It's not like you need funcall all the time. Besides it's easy, for example, to write a macro which defines local function bindings for its parameters. 07:01:58 yeah, I had thought of that too... was just exploring possibilities.... the #'(function params) would be shorter than a macro if you only called the functions once 07:02:47 hmmm. seems to be hard to reproduce, might be something else 07:03:49 thom_logn: That would be misdesign. #' is supposed to return a function object. 07:04:21 brandelune [n=suzume@pl496.nas932.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:04:49 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 07:05:53 yes... I admit it would be slightly confusing... but it's not an issue because it wouldn't work anyway :) 07:06:14 I'll just think up another char seq to use for it 07:06:56 TimoT pasted "SBCL dx array bug?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79748 07:07:52 *pinterface* recommends #\( #\f #\u #\n #\c #\a #\l #\l #\Space. ;) 07:08:55 heh thanks 07:10:16 Arnesi has a with-lisp1 macro, if you really want it--though I can't vouch for how well it works. 07:10:23 mega1: try that, it gives unhandled memory fault for me (latest CVS) 07:11:59 -!- rumbleca_ [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:13:12 TimoT: I get # with 1.0.27ish sbcl 07:13:22 hmm. weird, with nested lets it works 07:13:32 let min-mn etc 07:13:47 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-205-8.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:14:00 the idea of using #' or something was partially inspired by the desire to learn a little more about the reader 07:14:14 mega1: so it's a bug? 07:15:26 -!- GrayMagiker [n=steve@97.123.189.76] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:16:26 actually it works with a let, not with a let* 07:16:56 thom_logn: If you're going to learn about manipulating the reader, best to make your own custom reader macro and not try to piggyback on another 07:17:26 TimoT: seems quite sensitive to small mutations of the code. Fails on 1.0.23 as well. 07:17:26 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 07:18:06 -!- divinebovine [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:18:28 Ultimately I wanted to be able to read something like CSS2 style sheets as sexps using a custom readtable, but decided to take small steps :) 07:19:52 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 07:19:56 divinebovine [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has joined #lisp 07:20:13 majhool [n=mrw@user-118bgr6.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 07:22:23 can i ask a really basic question please?im writing into this channel because no one is on on lispcafe 07:22:38 im new to programming so its really basic 07:22:54 projections: just ask and maybe some will have the ability to answer :-) 07:22:55 shoot 07:23:02 Define a procedure that takes three numbers as arguments and returns the sum of the squares of the two larger numbers. 07:23:12 this is an exercise from the mit book 07:23:15 sorr really 07:23:26 that's not a basic question! that's a homework! 07:23:30 do i have to write an if then expression 07:23:40 projections: what have you achieved, and what do you find difficult ? 07:23:50 i know the concepts 07:23:59 so it is the syntax? 07:24:11 could you write in another language? 07:24:25 thom_logn: Sure you can play with such a reader macro for learning purposes. But please do not actually make use of it in code that is supposed to be read by another person. 07:24:28 (lambda (a b c) (apply + (first2 (sort a b c)))) something like that maybe 07:24:30 no lisp is my first language im a graphic designer actually 07:24:56 projections: you can do it with multiple IFs, or you can use COND which is better, or you can sort separately, depending on the goal of the chapter. 07:25:03 well, that's a question from SICP, it's unfair to use sort at this stage 07:25:11 yea ill be using cond 07:25:12 (apply + (first (sort a b c) second (sort a b c)) 07:25:30 Are you trying to confuse him on purpose? 07:25:35 :) 07:25:47 i dont know anything about sort yet 07:25:57 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-10.html 07:26:25 projections: Try to articulate what you want in words. You do not only have to think about what you want, but also how you want it to be done in terms of the programming language you're using. 07:26:27 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:27:18 projections: Try to split your problem into subproblems. What subproblems does your problem contain? 07:27:22 and returns the sum of the squares of the two larger numbers---does it have to give an answer automatically? 07:27:26 this is the problem 07:28:16 sorry really after seeing you guys talkign about real things this is not a thing 07:28:43 this is a thing 07:28:51 fun little puzzle... but isn't your solution supposed to be in scheme, not CL? 07:28:56 projections: if you know that the 2 larger number are the 2 first ones, do you know how to write the function ? 07:28:59 tcr's advice is good. Write down how to solve the problem in words, first 07:29:03 yes 07:29:04 finding sum of squares is trivial, so you need to find two larger numbers 07:29:10 letm write it and paste it in here 07:29:13 please wait 07:29:17 if i can of course 07:30:21 minion: paste 07:30:22 paste: lisppaste: lisppaste is an IRC bot that runs under the nickname "lisppaste" and can be used (only for the #lisp IRC channel!) at http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp - or http://paste.lisp.org/ for other destinations 07:30:37 ok 07:33:12 does that mean am i allowed? 07:33:16 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:33:19 or was that just an info? 07:33:23 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:33:33 -!- jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 07:34:05 go to http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and paste what you wanted to paste 07:34:16 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 07:34:59 ok but you are right im stuck after defining the sum-of-square procedure 07:36:08 whatever 07:36:13 ill spend aother day on this 07:36:19 http://www.urbanape.com/images/save_lisp4.gif 07:36:20 cant ask it to you guys 07:36:28 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:36:42 thom_logn pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79752 07:36:57 projections: try to read about if or cond 07:37:08 recursion to the rescue 07:37:09 ok 07:37:19 ill be back 07:37:23 projections wait 07:37:25 thom_logn: no good, recursion wasn't introduced yet 07:37:27 i am 07:37:29 I think my function works 07:37:36 ah. bummer 07:38:13 and don't show projections a ready solution, it's no fun for him 07:38:47 LOL It's just like giving Myst hints 07:38:56 :) 07:39:04 i wont understand anyways 07:39:53 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:40:23 projections: you must learn young grasshopper :-) 07:40:35 sad he can't use recursion... the solution is kinda pretty looking at it 07:40:41 projections: it will be obvios, then you ge tthe right solution :-) 07:41:08 i will understand it some time,i know that,but i just opened the book yesterday:) 07:41:33 my aim is to make live graphics 07:41:39 im impressed by the guys on vimeo 07:41:58 <_YKY_> Can someone help me with using paul graham's method for continuations? 07:42:14 projections... after every chapter or two you should try solving this problem again and see if your solution looks prettier the more you learn 07:42:26 i will! 07:42:31 thanks guys 07:42:41 Every day, I think about making another lisp. 07:42:41 good morning 07:42:52 nikodemus: hi 07:42:58 projections, are you talking about impromptu or fluxus? 07:43:22 i really dont know,are you talking about the graphics i saw on vimeo? 07:43:42 nikodemus: show the logs, TimoT had some array problems half an hour ago. 07:44:04 yes, do you know what package they were using? impromptu runs on a mac, fluxus on a PC (will, linux pc I think) 07:44:08 erm see 07:44:44 thom_logn:i guess they were on a mac. 07:45:00 thom_logn:i am sure 07:45:07 projections: is this it? http://impromptu.moso.com.au/gallery.html 07:45:28 yes:)tell me more about it please 07:46:48 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:47:13 dont tell me it doesnt have anything to do with lisp.. 07:47:23 It is pretty cool, but I haven't had much time to play with it. As far as I can tell it looks excelent. You'll definitely need to learn some serious programming to really get it going tho.... not that that's a bad thing :) 07:48:05 nope. very lispy, but they are using scheme, which is a subdialect of lisp. Luckily or you it's also probably easier to learn :) 07:48:16 "luckily for..." 07:48:16 i will,have nothing else to do than learning 07:48:32 good!:) 07:49:23 im a graphic designer ,i make particle animations and videos,i wanna store them and project them live on screen 07:49:41 Learning scheme/lisp will probably give you the most bang for your learning effort buck. If you had to program it in C++ or something you probably just blow a gasket and go crazy and start shooting ;) 07:49:53 :) 07:50:14 What happens when you redefine a metaclass of other classes? Will that work out fine? 07:50:16 so how good are you with math them? sounds like you know about 3d math already? 07:50:17 im not disturbed by learning,the only thing i mind is to find the info 07:50:38 not really i was working on Softimage XSI Ice 07:50:54 rumbleca [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:56 thats why i got into this stuff,if u check it out ull see its related to programming 07:51:10 that was completely new to me so i wanted to dig in deeper 07:51:44 Ah, well from what I've seen of impromptu so far I can tell you to PAY ATTENTION when your book starts talking about tail recursion because impromptu is using that a lot 07:52:20 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:52:20 -!- divinebovine [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:53:06 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 07:53:12 : so 3d stuff is your day job? 07:53:15 I will go with the flow if I can,first learn things about lisp and be sure Ill come here again and ask u guys few more questions on where I get stuck 07:53:24 -!- pinterface [n=pinterfa@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 07:53:33 kinda,I also do video editing or print designs 07:54:06 projections: #scheme is probably a better place to ask since that's the dialect you'll be using... but people here will most likely be able to answer questions too 07:54:18 thanks 07:54:26 any info is valuable 07:54:43 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:06 kejsaren: hmm, liu? 07:55:13 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 07:55:34 TimoT: worksforme on 1.0.28.13 07:55:43 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 07:55:55 I have 1.0.28.16 now. 07:56:01 are you on x86-64? 07:56:03 yep 07:56:24 ok, i'm guessing this is an x86-64 issue then 07:56:35 *nikodemus* builds 07:56:38 yes, the same code used to work on plain x86 07:57:17 brought working code to work from home, no workee :( 07:57:31 This, to me, is priceless. http://www.lisperati.com/game_action.jpg 07:57:57 *hefner* doesn't get it. 07:58:21 Well, ignore everything but the "lisp compiler" 07:58:24 -!- ejs [n=eugen@253-102-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:58:29 It's jus...nevermind. >_> 07:59:25 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.155.193] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:59:38 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:00:10 http://tinyurl.com/dlznso 08:00:16 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.155.193] has joined #lisp 08:00:45 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has joined #lisp 08:01:32 jdz_ [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:01:38 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.155.193] has quit [Client Quit] 08:05:53 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-67.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:06:37 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 08:06:51 ok, i can replicate it 08:08:54 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 08:09:29 this doesn't look right... 08:09:30 (:temporary (:sc any-reg :offset ecx-offset :from (:argument 2)) ecx) 08:09:30 (:temporary (:sc any-reg :offset eax-offset :from (:argument 2)) zero) 08:09:30 (:temporary (:sc any-reg :offset edi-offset :from (:argument 0)) res) 08:09:41 ...in the x86-64 backend! 08:10:09 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 08:11:04 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.155.193] has joined #lisp 08:11:48 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.155.193] has quit [Client Quit] 08:15:42 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44a6c7.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:17:50 thom_logn pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79753 08:18:18 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.155.193] has joined #lisp 08:19:23 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:28:53 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:29:18 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 08:30:16 funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:31:01 mld [n=user@90-224-13-4-no124.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:31:16 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-178.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 08:33:18 -!- funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:36:47 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-225.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:40:01 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:41:30 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 08:43:56 stepnem_ [n=versme@77.78.82.57] has joined #lisp 08:44:18 -!- mld [n=user@90-224-13-4-no124.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:46:09 -!- BrandonWilson [n=a@216.71.225.62] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:49:57 hugod_ [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633642.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:50:55 tttssstt` [n=pussycat@77.78.82.57] has joined #lisp 08:50:56 -!- jyujin_ [n=jyujin@d221-88-81.commercial.cgocable.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 08:51:29 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-24.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:57:59 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633852.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:58:36 -!- stepnem [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:59:45 -!- tttsssttt [n=pussycat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:01:50 binarin` [n=user@62.105.145.214] has joined #lisp 09:02:04 tttsssttt [n=pussycat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:45 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@p28-n238.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #lisp 09:04:39 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:05:11 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 09:05:47 Is there a reason SB!ALIEN is included twice in the :USE list of the COMMON-LISP-USER package at line 1360 of target-package.lisp ? 09:05:53 dwave_ [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has joined #lisp 09:06:42 maybe that's in case it's not included properly the first time? ;) 09:07:03 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:08:28 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:08:31 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 09:09:48 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:10:00 chrnybo [n=user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 09:10:26 -!- stepnem_ [n=versme@77.78.82.57] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:11:11 stepnem_ [n=versme@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:37 -!- tttssstt` [n=pussycat@77.78.82.57] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:14:17 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:14:39 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 09:14:51 dwave- [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has joined #lisp 09:16:42 -!- dwave- [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has quit [Client Quit] 09:16:44 -!- dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:19:18 -!- binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:22:27 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:24:57 -!- dwave_ [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:25:05 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 09:26:25 -!- majhool [n=mrw@user-118bgr6.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:26:39 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:28:35 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-70.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:30:23 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:30:39 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-206-94.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:52 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 09:33:42 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 09:35:42 zxc [n=divz@117.98.65.4] has joined #lisp 09:37:08 peddie [n=matthew@PEDDIE.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 09:39:09 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:40:17 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:26 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 09:45:23 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-202-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:47:43 are there any postmodern devs here? (I think there is a minor error in the documentation) 09:48:25 ** documentation in postmodern/connect.lisp:68 with-connection 09:53:30 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:40 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:54:10 SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 09:54:29 -!- dysinger [n=tim@64.65.187.250] has quit [] 09:56:52 jewel__ [n=jewel@41.242.158.152] has joined #lisp 09:56:52 -!- jewel__ is now known as jewel 10:00:35 SandGorgon_ [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 10:04:06 madnificent: ogedei is here from time to time 10:04:32 <_YKY_> Can someone help with using paul graham's macros for continuation? 10:04:34 madnificent: but he answers questions on the mailing list reliably 10:04:41 antifuchs: thanks, I'll tell him about it when I see him here :) 10:04:59 antifuchs: oh, its clear enough, it's just self-referencing, which is imperfect :) 10:05:14 patches are also quickly committed (: 10:06:00 SandGorgon__ [n=user@122.160.71.28] has joined #lisp 10:06:14 antifuchs: not too sure what the correct documentation would be. Just being a bit of a pain, don't know how to use darcs either. 10:06:34 -!- spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:07:23 I was actually looking at the source to discover the clos-extension they built. Apparantly, I'm not able to extend it in my mind. I know how it works, but can't find an overview of what calls when exactly 10:10:12 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:01 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:19:15 mega1 [n=mega@3e44a6c7.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:20:01 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-206-94.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:20:11 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-206-94.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:05 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-203-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:17 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 10:23:40 -!- SandGorgon_ [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Success] 10:24:20 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:25:38 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:26:25 -!- jewel [n=jewel@41.242.158.152] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:26:46 nikodemus: did you figure out the array problem? 10:28:05 not yet 10:28:21 HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:28:43 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-158-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:32:20 starting to bisect now -- i suspect this is a regression from the recentish calling convention changes 10:32:44 (looking at the assembly made me no wiser) 10:33:26 looking at assembly always makes people wiser 10:34:01 (sometimes that wisdom can be expressed as "life is too short to look at assembly") 10:37:13 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-206-94.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:37:13 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:37:16 Dorian87 [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-aa493ccf12abdce7] has joined #lisp 10:38:39 i did find a small dx implementation issue, though -- a harmless one. RECHECK-DYNAMIC-EXTENT-LVARS should pass :TRULY to LVAR-GOOD-TO-DX-P, not T 10:42:08 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E3B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:45 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-203-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:43:05 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E3B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:43:20 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E3B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:53 hm, or actually, maybe we should store the T or :TRULY in the cleanup 10:44:59 dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has joined #lisp 10:47:06 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 10:47:49 fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:32 bhyde [n=bhyde@c-66-30-202-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:58 schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2917fe02fa42e68a] has joined #lisp 10:51:13 cracki [n=cracki@47-218.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:55:05 fph pasted "brainfart" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79757 10:56:49 :TEST functions take two arguments, and so does STRING= 10:57:12 test #'(lambda (x y) (string= (car x) y)) <- didn't work either 10:58:25 (find "NYM" *rankings :test #'(lambda (x y) (string= x (car y)))) 10:58:36 ok, ordering, thank you 10:58:40 the first argument is the item you are looking for 10:59:07 naturally, once I thought about that 10:59:14 prettier: (find "NYM" *rankings :test #'string= :key #'car) 10:59:24 :-) 11:01:01 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 11:01:29 nikodemus: I reproduced it on 1.0.23 11:01:53 I'm staring at the disassembly right now of a reduced test case. 11:04:03 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 11:04:50 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-37-44-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:07 elias` [n=me@194.81.255.254] has joined #lisp 11:06:18 cracki_ [n=cracki@47-218.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:07:41 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 11:15:37 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@wsip-70-167-246-74.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:06 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-202-51.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:50 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:21:53 feh 11:22:09 nikodemus: it seems to me that on x86-64 the length of the vector (the 2nd word) is written wrong 11:22:24 there is an shr 3 beforeit 11:22:35 -!- cracki [n=cracki@47-218.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:23:06 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:24:51 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [] 11:25:05 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:27:10 jao_ [n=jao@207.Red-83-39-133.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:20 WORDS should be a fixnum at that point, so it's just untagging 11:27:46 same on x86 11:27:47 (move ecx words) 11:27:47 (inst shr ecx n-fixnum-tag-bits) 11:28:17 -!- jao_ [n=jao@207.Red-83-39-133.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:28:41 can you paste the reduced disassembly? 11:30:36 jao_ [n=jao@207.Red-83-39-133.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:49 mega1 annotated #79748 "reduced test case" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79748#1 11:30:54 nikodemus: here 11:30:59 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:31:01 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 11:31:11 x86 writes 4 as the length 11:31:19 -!- jao_ [n=jao@207.Red-83-39-133.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:31:29 x86-64 writes 1 11:32:00 jao` [n=jao@207.Red-83-39-133.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:48 sorry for it being 1.0.23 but the latest x86-64 binary says: 11:33:48 /home/mega/sbcl-1.0.28-x86-64-linux/src/runtime/sbcl: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.7' not found (required by /home/mega/sbcl-1.0.28-x86-64-linux/src/runtime/sbcl)/home/mega/sbcl-1.0.28-x86-64-linux/src/runtime/sbcl: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.4' not found (required by /home/mega/sbcl-1.0.28-x86-64-linux/src/runtime/sbcl) 11:33:53 Xof? 11:34:23 mega1: on x86-64, it so happens that LENGTH == WORDS, so we get the same TN 11:34:44 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 11:34:44 ALLOCATE-VECTOR-ON-STACK '218!58>t59[RAX] t56[RCX] t56[RCX] => t60[RBX] 11:34:52 hello 11:35:11 doing the same with fixnums instead of doubles will probably help trigger the bug portably. 11:35:49 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:36:12 yes, I can see it now 11:36:29 feh, pkhuong beat me to it :) 11:36:43 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:36:53 -!- fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 11:38:55 mega1: hello? 11:39:04 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-37-44-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:39:15 oh, did I build sbcl with too shiny a version of libc? Sorry 11:39:22 dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 11:40:22 Bacta [n=Tom@unaffiliated/bacta] has joined #lisp 11:40:25 It's not even Ubuntu latest! 11:40:27 How is babby formed? 11:40:36 ?_? 11:40:55 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 11:41:02 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xof 11:41:06 -!- Xof has set mode +b *!*n=Tom@*unaffiliated/bacta 11:41:12 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Client Quit] 11:41:23 what version of glibc should we build with? 11:42:12 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:22 pkhuong, nikodemus: is it allocate-vector-on-stack that should be more clever about this? 11:44:13 I believe so. 11:45:05 I imagine similar bugs are quite easy to introduce. 11:45:47 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@47-218.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:45:57 time for an audit 11:46:06 Not too hard to check for, however. Slightly tedious but right... audit. 11:47:39 I wonder how the eglibc people want to keep up with the abi changes of glibc... 11:48:36 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.79.29] has joined #lisp 11:49:34 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-139-139.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:49:55 pkhuong: i think it's the :FROM (:ARGUMENT ...) in there that is to blame 11:50:03 heltav [n=hask@h2n1c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 11:50:03 pkhuong annotated #79748 "fixed VOP?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79748#2 11:50:33 well, uClibc people don't seem to care about keeping ABI straight 11:50:35 nikodemus: no, we really want ECX to be packed in the same place as WORDS when possible. 11:50:47 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-225.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:51:26 pkhuong: well, true. but we don't want ECX to be packed with LENGTH 11:52:06 :target :eval for length, right? 11:52:19 I mean :to :eval 11:53:07 -!- heltav [n=hask@h2n1c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:53:12 mega1: yeah, and more obviously right than what I have. 11:53:19 heltav [n=hask@h2n1c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 11:53:20 -!- SandGorgon__ [n=user@122.160.71.28] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:53:27 -!- jao` [n=jao@207.Red-83-39-133.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["leaving"] 11:53:37 jao` [n=jao@207.Red-83-39-133.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:41 yes, that seems right 11:53:43 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.161.254] has joined #lisp 11:53:54 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.155.193] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:54:14 pkhuong: apropos: you don't need to compare locations before MOVE: the MOV is emitted only if the location are not equal 11:54:24 mega1: are you going to commit? 11:54:39 abusing zero is asking for trouble 11:54:50 Irregardless [n=heysquid@122.163.225.233] has joined #lisp 11:54:51 signals ... 11:54:58 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@p28-n238.kthopen.kth.se] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 11:55:12 -!- Irregardless is now known as Guest69399 11:55:22 nikodemus: I have no time to build, test right now 11:55:27 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.161.254] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:55:42 nikodemus: i'm comparing ECX and LENGTH ;) 11:56:20 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 11:56:36 oh, right 11:56:44 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Client Quit] 11:56:49 i'll just shut up and clean up a fix 11:57:00 while you are at it, there is a stray in-package in that file 11:57:01 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.154.161] has joined #lisp 11:57:18 -!- Guest69399 [n=heysquid@122.163.225.233] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:57:28 I'm thinking that this could go into the internals manual: http://www.lisphacker.com/codex/001-sbcl-vops.txt 11:58:10 nyef would make a good technical writer if he didn't distract himself so much with coding 11:59:16 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:59:37 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-73-53.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:04:56 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.243.106] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:05:57 Irregardless [n=heysquid@122.162.154.82] has joined #lisp 12:06:16 -!- Irregardless is now known as Guest30486 12:06:36 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:36 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.226.104] has joined #lisp 12:08:03 -!- Guest30486 [n=heysquid@122.162.154.82] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:08:49 -!- dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:09:32 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:09:44 Irregardless [n=heysquid@122.163.224.18] has joined #lisp 12:10:06 -!- Irregardless is now known as Guest43754 12:10:36 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 12:11:58 nick-rivers [n=dsandu@CPE000625d836a0-CM0018c0b3d06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:12:15 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 12:12:59 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 12:14:00 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #lisp 12:14:01 -!- nick-rivers is now known as nrivers 12:15:24 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.226.104] has quit [Operation timed out] 12:15:28 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.227.188] has joined #lisp 12:15:31 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-37-41-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:02 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 12:17:16 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:17:44 -!- Bacta [n=Tom@unaffiliated/bacta] has quit [Client Quit] 12:18:22 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-202-51.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:18:23 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Client Quit] 12:21:14 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@wsip-70-167-246-74.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 12:21:41 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:21:44 Good afternoon. 12:21:59 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.154.161] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:25:01 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@nttkyo454079.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:25:03 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:26:31 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.170.219] has joined #lisp 12:27:45 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:42 hello plage 12:28:43 Irregardless [n=heysquid@122.163.230.32] has joined #lisp 12:29:00 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.170.219] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:29:02 -!- Irregardless is now known as Guest82488 12:31:18 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Client Quit] 12:31:58 -!- Guest43754 [n=heysquid@122.163.224.18] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:33:24 -!- heltav [n=hask@h2n1c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 12:34:57 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.163.204] has joined #lisp 12:35:05 -!- Guest82488 [n=heysquid@122.163.230.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:35:11 dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has joined #lisp 12:38:47 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-37-42-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:56 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:39:43 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@wsip-70-168-132-106.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:51 chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:33 Irregardless [n=heysquid@122.163.225.137] has joined #lisp 12:40:57 -!- Irregardless is now known as Guest5514 12:41:14 http://paste.lisp.org/display/79748 12:41:35 still in that paste, if you change let* to let the disassembly gets a lot longer 12:41:40 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-158-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:42:18 seem like the safety declaration doesn't effect the (make-array ...) form with LET 12:42:52 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.163.204] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:44:16 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.227.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:45:08 feh! 12:45:27 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 12:45:33 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has left #lisp 12:45:50 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Client Quit] 12:45:57 that's the correct behavior, iirc 12:46:09 how so? 12:46:39 it's a free declaration not a bound one 12:46:42 it's a free declaration, and those only affect the body 12:46:52 not the init forms, step forms, etc 12:47:24 clhs 3.3.4 12:47:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_cd.htm 12:47:36 so LET* is broken, then? 12:48:22 *HET2* sings let it be, let it be 12:48:56 oops, sorry, looks like the stepping forms are in the scope of the declarations. but initialization forms indeed aren't 12:49:09 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6D350.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:28 I don't see why let* would get a free pass on this 12:49:34 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-37-41-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:49:54 (let ((it 'be)) (list it it it)) 12:50:30 heh 12:50:43 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.17] has joined #lisp 12:51:23 yep, LET* doesn't do the :POST-BINDING-LEXENV thing 12:52:44 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.100.17] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:52:52 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.90] has joined #lisp 12:53:39 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-37-42-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:54:26 anyone here used spartns? 12:54:58 I don't remember whether the post-binding-lexenv thing was written to handle this correctly in the first place 12:55:27 the main thing it was trying to solve was free vs. bound special declarations 12:56:40 -!- Guest5514 [n=heysquid@122.163.225.137] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:58:04 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable085.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:58:17 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable085.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:58:20 nikodemus annotated #79748 "getting the lifetimes right" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79748#3 12:59:24 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-37-46-238.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:41 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-158-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:02:26 -!- dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has quit ["Be back later"] 13:03:23 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:35 nikodemus: other code relies on register zero being zero, no? 13:03:50 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.163.228.59] has joined #lisp 13:04:32 there's the ZEROIZE right before it has to be zero 13:05:10 as I commented to pkhoung, it's not signal safe 13:05:31 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:53 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.90] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:05:57 dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has joined #lisp 13:05:59 ? 13:06:51 it's EAX 13:07:29 ah, why is it called ZERO then? 13:07:40 SandGorgon__ [n=user@122.162.176.123] has joined #lisp 13:07:48 because we store a zero in there 13:08:16 could just as well be called EAX -- but it lives at EAX-OFFSET, which means it's really EAX 13:08:35 sorry, I didn't read carefully enough 13:08:49 thought that there was a register dedicated to zero 13:08:56 no problem. had me worried there for a while :) 13:10:29 -!- stepnem_ is now known as stepnem 13:10:42 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:14 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:14:51 -!- hugod_ [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633642.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 13:15:10 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-139-139.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 13:16:12 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 13:17:29 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.228.59] has joined #lisp 13:17:33 and TYPE is :TO :SAVE instead of :TO :EVAL purely as a stylistic preference or does it have practical consequences? 13:19:30 -!- kidd2 [n=kidd@221.Red-79-152-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:20:08 kidd2 [n=kidd@221.Red-79-152-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:06 -!- TimoT [n=tt@dhcp-pr-22.tml.hut.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:21:52 ssdddffg [n=user@78.33.52.101] has joined #lisp 13:22:14 -!- ssdddffg [n=user@78.33.52.101] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:23:10 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 13:25:26 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:25:29 -!- jdz_ [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 13:26:34 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@93-42-83-153.ip85.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:27:25 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.83] has joined #lisp 13:27:44 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@93-42-83-153.ip85.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Client Quit] 13:28:20 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:28:45 scottmaccal [n=scottmac@Sentry3.jay.k12.me.us] has joined #lisp 13:29:03 just to make clear it cannot end up packed into ZERO/EAX 13:29:16 just committed 13:32:05 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:34:45 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 13:35:16 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:35:27 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.163.228.59] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:35:31 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:35:31 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Client Quit] 13:37:24 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-60-75.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:13 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 13:39:45 -!- kidd2 [n=kidd@221.Red-79-152-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:40:22 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:44 added a note about LET* in https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/309125 13:40:59 hi, what is the technical name for #P"/foo/bar/baz"? is that a pathname string? 13:41:28 just "pathname"? 13:41:56 "the printed representation of a pathname with a namestring"? 13:43:23 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 13:44:37 nikodemus: (compile nil '(lambda (...) (declare (optimize ...)) ...)) in the old style translates to (funcall (compile nil '(lambda () (declare (optimize ...)) (lambda (...) ...)))) with the new style 13:44:42 i'm getting royal weirdness as things get translated fro #p"C:/foo/bar" which is how i type them in, to "\\foo\bar" then to proper pathnames as they run through the library. 13:44:42 I have been depending on (directory "*") to return a listing of the current directory, but that doesn't seem portable. 13:45:25 kidd2 [n=kidd@221.Red-79-152-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:34 minion: cl-fad? 13:45:35 cl-fad: CL-FAD is a portable pathname library based on code from Peter Seibel's book Practical Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cl-fad 13:47:33 bombshelter13_ [n=greg@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:58 hey, that's right 13:48:06 i wonder why i didn't see that 13:48:10 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 13:48:12 hello 13:48:17 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:48:53 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.163.225.157] has joined #lisp 13:50:02 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:47 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:51:44 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:51:59 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 13:53:34 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:54:42 -!- Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has quit [] 13:54:58 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-152-109.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:56:53 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:59:42 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:11 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 14:02:46 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.228.59] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:04:18 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:04:28 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 14:06:23 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:27 G'morning all. 14:07:09 Morning nyef 14:07:38 Anything interesting happening? 14:08:15 hi nyef 14:08:30 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:08:32 |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:11:25 -!- chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:11:39 -!- |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:11:58 |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:12:37 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:12:52 -!- |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:13:14 |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:14:41 -!- |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:14:41 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.13.240] has joined #lisp 14:14:56 -!- dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:14:56 a fun tn packing bug in allocate-vector-on-stack 14:15:10 |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:15:27 it was decided that your tn lifetime notes need to be integrated into the internals manual 14:15:34 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:17:03 -!- |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:17:16 |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:17:34 -!- |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:17:49 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit ["leaving"] 14:18:03 |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:18:10 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:18:10 -!- |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:19:06 spradnyesh pasted "problem with cl-who" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79770 14:19:47 can someone please help me understand what i'm doing wrong in the above pasted (http://paste.lisp.org/display/79770) matter? 14:20:07 |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:15 alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:44 i get that error (which i'm not understanding at all) when i try to compile any function containing "with-html-output-to-string") 14:20:44 -!- |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:21:26 spradnyesh: I find it interesting that the given source doesn't include :FORM, but the error message shows a form which does. 14:21:52 |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:22:27 -!- |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:22:51 -!- Dorian87 [i=52555923@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-aa493ccf12abdce7] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 14:23:08 -!- Jasko2 is now known as Jasko 14:23:15 However, the second message, "the third argument never returns a value" has an obviously-broken given source form. 14:23:17 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CCCE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:26 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-73-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:23:51 I'm unfamiliar with cl-who, but it looks like a missing set of parens somewhere. 14:23:52 nyef: i removed that line while pasting 14:24:20 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-178.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:24:50 actually what is happening is that when i try to compile reddit-lisp.lisp (from lispcast.com), it compiles fine even though it has this cl-who:with-html-output-to-string 14:25:08 but when i try to do the same in my code, it's giving me errors that i'm not able to comprehend 14:25:41 Which leads to the question "what are you doing differently?" 14:26:11 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-27-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:26:24 the reddit-lisp.lisp file does everything in cl-user package and does a require of necessary packages 14:26:32 it seems that "str" conflicts with something 14:26:39 s/str/fstr/ does work 14:26:43 i'm trying to use the asd system by writing my asd file 14:26:50 stassats: lemme try that 14:28:22 it does also conflict with fmt or esc 14:28:32 i.e. with some commands of cl-who 14:28:50 i wonder, whether it's a bug or feature 14:29:11 -!- zxc [n=divz@117.98.65.4] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:29:52 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:30:06 who is it in the lispcasts? 14:30:39 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:30:53 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 14:31:01 madnificent: it's eric normand 14:31:15 spradnyesh: does it work for you? 14:31:20 stassats: it compiled fine now, but 14:31:23 is he in #lisp from time to time? (I like to connect faces to nicknames) 14:31:53 i'm getting a style-warning:- ; caught STYLE-WARNING:; This function is undefined:; FSTR 14:32:08 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-208-127-247-67.dslextreme.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:32:14 madnificent: i've seen him in #lisp archives 14:32:18 but am not sure now 14:32:29 ok, cool 14:35:10 spradnyesh: are you using the cl-who package ? it seems that with-html-output-to-string is not recognized as a macro 14:35:40 jlf` [n=user@adsl-99-137-140-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:52 blandest: yes i am 14:36:01 cracki [n=cracki@47-218.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 wait, i'll paste my asd file contents 14:36:30 better post your defpackage form :) 14:36:38 spradnyesh pasted "contents of fp-v2.asd" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79772 14:37:39 spradnyesh annotated #79772 "defpackage" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79772#1 14:37:50 spradnyesh: are you trying to run the first lispcast? hunchentoot has changed since then 14:38:11 madnificent: i've watched (almost) all of those screencasts 14:38:19 milanj [n=milan@93.86.52.225] has joined #lisp 14:38:26 i'm trying to do something by myself now :) 14:38:27 spradnyesh: type this at the REPL and try to compile your function again: (use-package :cl-who) 14:38:50 spradnyesh: feel free to join the virtually dead ##lispweb channel :) 14:38:59 blandest: that's not the issue. The short test case is (cl-who::tree-to-commands '(:html) 'str nil) as opposed to the same form with s/str/foo/ 14:39:01 blandest: in the cl-user package itself? or should i change my repl package to fp-v2? 14:39:06 spradnyesh: and post your experiences there whilst you go forward 14:39:29 madnificent: will surely do that 14:39:34 thanks for the hint 14:39:56 it's only 5 people in there (including me) :( 14:40:08 lichtblau: it seems that it has another problem: the cl-who package is only required by the .asd, but the defpackage form does not :use :cl-who 14:40:27 spradnyesh: you should use ##lispweb (freenode rules) and there aren't more people there 14:40:49 spradnyesh: some of the #lispweb users refuse to move to ##lispweb for some reason 14:40:59 blandest: I haven't looked at followup questions arising from the .asd nor the defpackage. I'm responding to the original question and paste. 14:41:15 madnificent: i initially thought that the double #es were a typo ;) 14:41:31 spradnyesh: yeah, perhaps thats why nobody likes the ## channel names 14:41:52 blandest: i see :cl-who being 'use'd in the package.lisp file too 14:42:10 i didn't really understand your comment to lichtblau above 14:42:14 madnificent: as long as you're tilting at windmills, why don't you try to get everyone here to move to ##lisp? 14:42:37 dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:47 jlf`: I guess this is official enough (in my defense: they asked me to move ##lispweb themselves) 14:43:21 jlf`: also, you get to reside on the channel for free. They provide me with their services, so I think its fair to follow their rules) 14:43:28 *madnificent* is paren-addicted 14:43:51 nonsense 14:44:28 jlf`: feel free to search for the #freenode channel logs 14:44:43 ejs [n=eugen@120-8-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:46 spradnyesh: You have to compile the page-edit function in a package that uses :cl-who or call (cl-who:with-html-output-to-string ...) instead 14:45:01 what does the double-# mean, in an IRC context? 14:45:11 unofficial? 14:45:21 jlf`: in order to be able to register the channel in order to avoid future abuse. It was asked to me if we should have #lispweb (the answer to which is blatantly obvious) 14:45:21 ah 14:45:28 or something like that 14:45:42 willb [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:45:44 -!- dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:45:44 rsynnott: yes, unofficial. You should in some way be affiliated with the name, in order to use #channelname 14:46:26 http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#topicalchannels 14:46:56 ah 14:47:57 madnificent: i agree that lispweb should be consider a topical channel under those guidelines, but the fact that enforcement of this policy is so random and haphazard renders it meaningless 14:48:14 cf. #lisp, #web, #math, etc. 14:48:45 blandest: about your earlier comment about i have to compile page-edit in a package that uses cl-who, well, the fp-v2 package does use cl-who as can be seen by both the .asd and packages.lisp files 14:49:01 jlf`: they don't check it manually and they don't explicitly enforce them. In their defence, its not extremely simple to check if a channel is affiliated or not... it is suboptimal 14:49:15 maybe jmc registered #lisp 14:49:40 also, as per your earlier comment about trying to run (use-package :cl-who) in the repl and trying again, it did work, but with fstr as the parameter to the function 14:49:51 it still gives me errors with 'str' as the parameter 14:50:02 octoberdan [n=dgreen@64.206.6.254] has joined #lisp 14:50:15 yes, i'd call that a bug 14:50:18 and the error is still the same as i had originally pasted 14:50:34 stassats: was that for my benefit? 14:50:40 stassats: founder of #lisp seems to be dan`b 14:51:22 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 14:52:32 the "b" is for "BcCarthy" 14:53:10 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 14:53:33 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.163.225.157] has quit ["Induhvidual Quote: I know these streets like the back of my head."] 14:54:26 lenst [n=user@90-229-132-172-no52.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:54:33 -!- octoberdan [n=dgreen@64.206.6.254] has left #lisp 14:55:56 willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:55:58 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:56:50 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 14:57:52 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 14:58:37 -!- ejs [n=eugen@120-8-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:59:26 spradnyesh pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79773 15:00:43 fstr was arbitrary name, i'd better use something like "string" 15:00:59 or stream 15:01:45 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:01:45 willb2 [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:03:35 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:04:49 Does CLX support MIT-SHM extensions? 15:05:11 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:05:30 -!- willb2 is now known as willb 15:07:33 I don't think so 15:07:51 apparently, this issue is fixed in the development version of cl-who 15:08:16 Hrm. 15:09:15 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:20 nyef: it's possible that Eric Marsden once did work on MIT-SHM 15:09:26 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 15:10:12 Okay, not seeing any reference to shm in my local copy... 15:14:30 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:17:03 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:19:09 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl496.nas932.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 15:19:20 Xof: I've just finished re-reading your SBCL^2 paper (Sanely-Bootstrappable etc.) Are you going to write up your experiences with deterministic FASLs? 15:19:22 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:19:26 *nyef* notices that he has lost any clue he once had as to how to use darcs. 15:20:10 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 15:21:42 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]"] 15:22:54 splittist: beyond a blog post? Not sure 15:23:03 Only if someone actively expresses interest 15:24:02 Xof: well, it does follow on nicely from the 'Conclusions and Further Work' section... 15:25:48 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:25:49 oh, hey, look 15:25:51 prescience 15:25:55 dwave_ [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has joined #lisp 15:26:01 dacoda [n=user@clientssh2.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 15:26:13 Maybe there will be another self-sustaining systems workshop 15:26:16 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:26:35 Xof: You could make comments about Clisp... 15:26:37 problem with writing it up is that it's not very interesting, I think. What are the general lessons learnt? (Always remember to specify :initial-element ...) 15:29:37 You know what'd be convenient? If you could specify an external name for a callback that the dynamic linker would use for symbol resolution. 15:30:01 I think that feature was just added 15:30:11 On what platforms? 15:30:29 linux 15:30:36 i'll see if I can dig up the reference 15:30:42 hmmm... does SBCL react nicely if GDB attaches itself while CL is running non-trivial code? 15:30:56 p_l: I do that regularly 15:31:05 p_l: just make sure to not catch SIGSEGV 15:31:56 foom: OK, I was scared that it might blow up (I wouldn't blame it) 15:32:16 p_l: depends on the platform, I think 15:32:19 the last section in http://udrepper.livejournal.com/20948.html 15:32:32 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:32:35 OS X is less forgiving 15:33:10 well, I only plan to use that under Linux, but even there, I think kernel module would be better solution 15:33:20 kernel module?!? 15:33:36 foom: I'm mass-editing environments of all apps in OS :) 15:33:44 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.83] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:33:51 oh, sbcl has absolutely no problem there 15:33:58 you're just stepping in changing some stuff and detaching 15:34:11 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.83] has joined #lisp 15:34:13 foom: one solution was to attach GDB, do the change, detach. But I don't really like it :) 15:34:21 the only time you even potentially have trouble is if you run the program while gdb is attached 15:34:41 So I started thinking about adding a writable /proc//environment/ 15:35:11 I'm not sure why you need to do this, but one time I did something similar to change the cwd of all programs off a disk I wanted to unmount. :) 15:35:38 -!- schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2917fe02fa42e68a] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 15:35:49 I can ensure atomicity this way, and I'm not bothered by possible copies in userspace - I'm only interested in what gets passed after fork()/exec() 15:37:59 morning 15:38:35 hi slyrus 15:41:32 -!- jlf` [n=user@adsl-99-137-140-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:41:36 hello slyrus 15:42:02 mvilleneuve: done any imago hacking lately? 15:43:09 *dacoda* is a Fortran/C programmer, usually working in the high-performance field, but interested in Lisp also. Especially, I would like to set up a web-site using Lisp. The only problem: I am very new to Lisp, wondering if there is a good Lisp-based framwork for doing this. It would be great if it could handle CSS as well. 15:44:31 slyrus: no, not in quite some time now... :( 15:44:52 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable007.79-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:45:28 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable007.79-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:45:49 clearly, it is morning in canada 15:45:56 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest58185 15:47:22 holycow [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has joined #lisp 15:48:12 chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:19 Xof: well, this or a router has just been switched on ;) 15:48:38 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:49:24 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 15:50:18 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 15:51:58 -!- dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has quit [No route to host] 15:53:03 -!- dwave_ [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has quit [No route to host] 15:56:16 -!- _YKY_ [i=YKY@119.237.179.195] has quit ["flip: back to simulation"] 16:00:00 dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has joined #lisp 16:00:03 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@wsip-70-168-132-106.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 16:03:08 dacoda: I know virtually nothing about web stuff, but people here talk about hunchentoot a lot. 16:03:19 minion: please tell dacoda about hunchentoot. 16:03:20 dacoda: have a look at hunchentoot: Hunchentoot is a web server written in Common Lisp and at the same time a toolkit for building dynamic websites. http://www.cliki.net/hunchentoot 16:05:01 hunchentoot's a server 16:05:07 there are also a couple of frameworks 16:05:16 either using hunchentoot or their own server 16:05:37 see, I don't even know the difference! 16:06:07 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 16:07:19 I use hunchentoot, though it has been giving me some grief lately 16:07:20 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 16:07:47 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-145-45.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost 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have a mop package 17:00:02 (require :sb-mop) 17:00:17 is there a portable way to do that? 17:00:22 divinebovine [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has joined #lisp 17:00:22 -!- holycow [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:00:24 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/session] has joined #lisp 17:00:27 minion: closer? 17:00:27 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``closer''. 17:00:34 damn 17:00:37 ** and apparantly I need to install it :) (I find this somewhat strange) 17:00:38 minion: closer-mop? 17:00:38 closer-mop: Closer to MOP is a compatibility layer that rectifies many of the absent or incorrect MOP features as detected by MOP Feature Tests. http://www.cliki.net/closer-mop 17:00:45 -!- Guest50699 is now known as tsuru 17:01:03 but the clos specification already opens that up... 17:01:04 faulty memories 17:01:27 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:01:34 and you don't need to require sb-mop, it should be already there 17:02:51 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:03:12 stassats: right, but it wasn't, for some reason 17:03:35 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 17:03:44 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/session] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:03:44 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 17:03:46 you thought it wasn't 17:04:09 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:04:10 -!- spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@117.192.8.148] has left #lisp 17:04:17 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:44 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:04:48 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:04:59 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:05:08 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 17:05:19 Good evening 17:05:32 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 17:06:33 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 17:06:56 Hello beach. 17:07:12 http://www.cliki.net/IPv6 <--- is this still current? 17:09:36 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 17:10:03 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.175.83] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:10:20 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:11:55 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:14:24 -!- chessguy is now known as chessguy_work 17:14:56 p_l: iolib supports ipv6 17:16:02 drwhen [n=d@216-67-73-247-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:06 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@164-54.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["walkies"] 17:20:18 -!- projections [n=p@88.235.101.2] has quit [] 17:20:48 fe[nl]ix: Yeah, I just found it 17:22:01 *p_l* goes to check if Huchentoot will work on v6 only network 17:23:10 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:43 p_l: I'm the author of iolib. if you need help there's #iolib 17:24:42 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:24:53 fe[nl]ix: I'm more like investigating the current level of v6 support in Lisp systems 17:25:49 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.68.107] has joined #lisp 17:26:05 dtangren [n=dtangren@69.176.201.226] has joined #lisp 17:26:25 p_l: if you don't need windoze support, then go with iolib... 17:26:38 looks like Hunchentoot won't work with v6... hmmm 17:27:09 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@69.176.201.226] has quit [Client Quit] 17:27:10 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:27:12 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:29:12 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.68.107] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 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[n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:20 -!- Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 17:59:40 Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 18:01:06 -!- chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:01:19 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-37-46-238.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:02:05 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-37-46-238.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:17 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:03:09 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:03:12 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 18:04:03 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 18:04:46 -!- Guest59324 is now known as Dave2 18:05:53 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:06:37 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 18:07:49 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:07:52 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:08:18 -!- rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:08:22 rotty [n=rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:29 after issuing M-x slime I create a buffer in which I try to M-x lisp-mode and M-x slime-mode.. this seems to work for a few commands, and then instead of just (Lisp Slime) it changes to (Lisp Slime[sbcl]) and the slime minor mode is no longer to be found by emacs "minor-mode-menu-from-indicator: Cannot find minor mode for ` Slime'", any idea why I get this ? 18:08:33 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 18:09:15 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Client Quit] 18:12:41 Do you have ilisp as well? 18:14:23 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:15:37 ajcc [n=adrian@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:19 I don't seem to have that, however I should add that the problem is only when clicking with the mouse on the status bar.. the menu is still working, the shorcuts are also working 18:16:21 I usually do a C-x-2 C-x-o C-x C-f a-modulename.lisp and let it figure out to use lisp mode from the extension. 18:16:33 ok 18:18:05 Why isn't slime-mode automatically set up in your lisp mode hook? 18:20:36 ak70 [n=ak70@195.158.94.48] has joined #lisp 18:22:45 Hi, guys. Is it possible to port sbcl to JVM or how difficult to do that? Does anyone has an idea? 18:23:12 ak70: I'm not an developer, but I think it would be much much much work. 18:23:19 I wouldn't bother, as the machine models are very different. 18:23:28 Eseentially not possible. But there are already implementations of common-lisp for the JVM. 18:23:33 ak70: There is a halfway working common lisp for the JVM as I know. 18:23:35 Perhaps you might look into Armed Bear Common Lisp? 18:24:30 ABCL is much more than halfway working... 18:25:19 nyef: I am reading the source code of abcl (just for study purpose), and I found that a lot of things in it was written in Java. 18:25:35 do you guys use redshank ? 18:25:51 but I really prefer the sbcl approach 18:25:53 whee, 25% faster array type checking for (simple-array fixnum 2)! 18:26:04 well, maybe just 20% 18:26:05 there's also CLforJava; I have no idea whether it works or not 18:26:06 *nyef* doesn't use redshank, but is running paredit on 2/3 of his emacsen. 18:26:07 I don't think it would be harder to port SBCL to the JVM than to any other random ISA, if porting means "getting it to work". (Making it run fast would be a different matter.) 18:26:10 nikodemus: Congratulations. 18:26:41 lichtblau: really? I think it'd be significantly harder. Java has its own GC, for example. 18:26:56 lichtblau: you'd have to change everything in SBCL to be compatible with that 18:27:39 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-188.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 18:27:39 the code of abcl reminds me of the debate of 'CISC vs RISC' 18:28:03 then there's the problem that JVM memory is typed and you can't do your own tagging. There goes another large part of sbcl. :) 18:28:28 foom: having an existing GC just saves time for the porting effort. Of course, for GC and tagging reasons there would be an insane amount of fixnum consing for stuff SBCL thinks can be done inline and that sort of thing, but that's what I mean with the result not being fast. 18:28:40 Hrm. Nine confirmed high-priority bugs in the tracker. One is windows-only, one is cheneygc-only, one is darwin-only... 18:28:52 antifuchs: how're boinkmarks? 18:29:03 Sorry, two are darwin-only. 18:29:33 nyef: i used the "corrupts image or gives wrong results" as the high-priority filter 18:31:31 Yeah, I'm just wondering what's there that's merely bad and what's really bad. 18:31:51 foom: I did some experiments early this year to use SBCL as a cross-compiler generating AVM2 byte code for little functions, and got as far as being able to compile functions involving only inline arithmetic. The JVM would be a nicer target than the AVM2, but very similar. 18:31:54 someone else might use a different prioritizing heuristic -- that was entirely my choise without any consultation, so... 18:32:20 The hunchentoot test suite thing, was that tested only on osx, or also on linux? 18:32:27 willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 18:33:01 foom: I also hacked a version of genesis for that and a "core file" loader in Java that needs about a second to construct in-memory Java objects for the cold core (not including byte code for the code components though!). Feels like a plausible approach. 18:33:10 what about using llvm - like unladen swallow is doing? 18:33:40 SandGorgon__: see yesterday's conversation. :) 18:33:47 SandGorgon__: We discussed this recently (was it yesterday? certainly this week) and the result was "looks like work, but also looks plausible", if memory serves. 18:33:51 foom: ahh 18:34:08 SandGorgon__: if that's in response to the JVM question, there would be nothing wrong about an LLVM backend to SBCL (see the scrollback for more), but it would be entirely different from a JVM backend. Not even close. 18:34:12 Which is a first for LLVM, actually, because usually it's been "ugh, no." 18:34:31 picking up on that thread 18:34:38 mjf [n=mjf@r5ba92.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 18:34:57 (please don't mention unwind/backtrace, please don't mention unwind/backtrace, please don't mention unwind/backtrace...) 18:35:01 -!- simard [n=user@pcms05.grm.polymtl.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:35:02 It looks like LLVM's GC support might not even be relevant for SBCL (as it is today), because it does a conservative stack crawl 18:35:17 (Damn.) 18:35:21 er, too many its there: because SBCL does a conservative stack crawl 18:35:43 still, might be interesting to emit bitcode from IR2 and link with C with a minimal runtime. 18:35:43 all the support in LLVM seems geared towards tracking values on the stack, which SBCL doesn't even need to do 18:37:06 I couldn't find a guarantee that they don't do gc-unsafe pointer manipulation (which would be an issue), but they do claim that it works with Boehm GC which would seem to indicate that they don't. 18:37:13 projections [n=p@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 18:37:26 feh, commit damage 18:37:50 -!- ajcc [n=adrian@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has quit ["leaving"] 18:38:07 foom: Boehm has optional support for interior pointers. 18:38:50 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:39:19 pkhuong: Yeah. So SBCL's conservative stack walker /might/ need to support interior pointers for that to work. 18:40:50 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:41:03 willb [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 18:41:09 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:32 Odin- [n=sbkhh@130.208.131.159] has joined #lisp 18:41:43 (Which would be a trivial modification, so not a big deal.) 18:43:54 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 18:44:21 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 18:45:35 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:48:28 dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:55 jao [n=jao@183.Red-81-32-181.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:12 -!- jao [n=jao@183.Red-81-32-181.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:50:24 -!- bhyde [n=bhyde@c-66-30-202-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:50:58 -!- dysinger [n=tim@c-24-19-45-181.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:51:19 nyef pasted "Haven't sorted out a minimal test case for this yet, but..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79786 18:52:51 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:53:35 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:53:53 jao [n=jao@78.Red-79-156-141.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:23 Now, I can shut it up (and get correct code) either by making deref and sb-alien-internals:%set-deref notinline or by declaiming the ftype for find-amd64-register. 18:54:53 So I have workarounds, but it'd be nice to not need them. 18:55:43 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:47 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:57:37 Does anyone have any suggestions for where to look, beyond just the compiler transforms and optimizers for deref? 18:57:43 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:59:29 BrandonWilson [n=a@216.71.225.62] has joined #lisp 18:59:33 ignas [n=ignas@85.106.164.240] has joined #lisp 19:00:02 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:00:09 vanLiempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 19:03:10 can you reduce a test case that gives that? 19:04:03 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:04:38 Not sure. 19:04:50 First obvious attempts failed, but it's such a small fragment... 19:08:07 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 19:10:22 nikodemus: re the allocate-vector-on-stack fix: would that have manifested itself as an incorrectly-sized array? 19:12:20 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:12:28 alec: yes. 19:12:59 nyef annotated #79786 "Reduced test case" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79786#1 19:13:42 pkhuong: great! - I'd seen it a few times but could never come up with small test case 19:15:15 nyef annotated #79786 "A declaim which "fixes" things" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79786#2 19:15:42 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 19:18:06 Shouldn't the IR1-transform on DEREF have given up rather than generating the extract-alien-value form? 19:18:40 -!- rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has left #lisp 19:20:54 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:04 alec: it could have gone unnoticed/fixed for quite a while too 19:22:11 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 19:23:11 I had seen it in 1.0.19.25 and 1.0.26.21. 19:23:58 Hunh. Okay, find-test-struct-slot has a result type of (VALUES (ALIEN (* T)) &OPTIONAL). 19:24:15 That'd make DEREF not fail its transform. 19:25:42 So now we have extract-alien-value with an alien-type of T. 19:25:53 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 19:26:18 Which is constant, so the compiler would like to open-code it... 19:27:06 Oh. NIL, not T. 19:27:16 Stupid pointer alien type representation. 19:28:12 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:28:52 Right, and NIL is of type (VALUES NULL &OPTIONAL), not SB-ALIEN-INTERNALS:ALIEN-TYPE, which makes a certain demented kind of sense. 19:29:29 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 19:31:23 So the Right Thing here is either to have the extract-alien-value transform decline when attempting to extract a NIL or to have the deref transform decline when attempting to deref an (* T). 19:31:56 -!- ignas [n=ignas@85.106.164.240] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:32:35 Jabberwockey [n=jens@p54BB0844.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:34:31 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:38:50 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:39:18 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-9ef81e1bc8aab6fc] has joined #lisp 19:39:35 dihymo [n=rares@75-174-218-63.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:50 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 19:39:58 Hrm... What happens if you try to compile a deref of an (* t) with an index? 19:40:55 -!- zen_balrog [n=johnnyc@69.150.85.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:42:50 uroboros [n=mjf@r5ba92.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 19:42:52 -!- uroboros [n=mjf@r5ba92.net.upc.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 19:43:50 -!- jao [n=jao@78.Red-79-156-141.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:46:07 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:56 ... Oh. I could have hot-patched this change. Oops. 19:47:39 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 19:49:40 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:50:09 sugarshark [n=ole@p4FDA9652.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:51:18 -!- scottmaccal [n=scottmac@Sentry3.jay.k12.me.us] has quit [Client Quit] 19:51:19 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:07 -!- divinebovine [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:55:09 nyef annotated #79786 "An improvement" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79786#3 19:56:00 (Hunh. So that's where compiler notes can come from.) 19:56:39 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 19:57:17 And I now have a starting point for a model of SB-ALIEN performance traps. 19:59:32 dysinger [n=tim@64.65.187.250] has joined #lisp 20:00:41 -!- projections [n=p@88.235.101.2] has quit [] 20:01:11 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6D350.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 20:01:44 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [] 20:03:11 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:03:16 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:04:21 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["reboot"] 20:04:36 -!- ak70 [n=ak70@195.158.94.48] has left #lisp 20:04:58 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88.149.210.70] has joined #lisp 20:10:25 nyef: good find! 20:11:48 So now, is that a good enough message for the compiler note or does it need more work before I commit it? 20:12:17 willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 20:13:06 ejs [n=eugen@9-240-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:07 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:15:08 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 20:15:35 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [] 20:17:49 -!- SandGorgon__ [n=user@122.162.176.123] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:19:24 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-24-92.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:36 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 20:24:39 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-81-186.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:25:05 nikodemus: they're very well - I'm convinced that things are working now, and will be putting a redirect in place 20:25:26 not yet sure when I can activate the rss feed again, could be a few more weeks 20:27:38 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-24-92.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:27:59 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-24-92.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:43 rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-109.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:29:39 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-24-92.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 20:29:53 -!- alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:29:59 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-24-92.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:01 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 20:31:20 nyef: that looks reasonable 20:32:17 Right. I'll commit it in a bit, then. 20:32:58 And that's the nastiest entry on my private bug list, too. 20:33:11 "...DEREF due to..." 20:33:21 dunno 20:33:38 antifuchs: great! 20:33:51 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:34:53 I guess the other option is to just say "pointer type is wild", as the other give-up-ir1-transform messages in compute-deref-guts are similarly terse. 20:37:06 s0ber_ [n=s0ber@118-168-232-25.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:46 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@p54BB0844.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:39:38 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16] has quit [] 20:43:55 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 20:44:07 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@121.13.178.141] has joined #lisp 20:45:26 ... Is there a specified order to adding stuff to NEWS? 20:45:41 (Something I have definately been lax on.) 20:46:06 important things first 20:47:59 So... This fix goes somewhere near the report of the fix for bug #201, and the alien integer result truncation thing goes just ahead of the address space randomization? 20:49:29 hey, jsnell 20:49:31 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@220-136-230-70.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:49:35 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-24-92.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:49:41 simultaneity 20:49:52 (I'm not going to admit how long it took me to work out how to spell that) 20:50:09 ah, right, the package thing 20:50:24 or just shooting the breeze, I don't mind 20:51:11 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-13-45.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:15 actually, no-one but sbcl committers has said anything for about the last hour 20:51:27 I was wondering how your protocol would be used to implement compile-time package effects 20:51:58 example? 20:52:11 (I don't know and my mind is blank) 20:52:21 so for example if I want (find-symbol "FOO" "BAR") to use find-symbol-using-package with the compile-time *package*, not the runtime 20:52:29 bzwahr [n=user@bloc-bzwahr-lap.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:53:01 any hunchentoot users around? 20:53:25 jsnell: ah, I see 20:53:43 since the kludgy way I ended up doing it for my package environment hack was, well, kludgy 20:54:03 bzwahr: what is your question? 20:54:27 (binding a special CL package during compilation, with a funny definition for find-symbol) 20:54:28 I think the answer is that my protocol does not address that 20:55:00 stassats: I had tbnl working with mod_lisp2 (apache), but since upgrading/changing to hunchentoot, all I can get working is the hunchentoot-test directly (not through apache) 20:55:17 foom: you're perfectly correct. i overlooked the obvious 20:55:32 well, hunchentoot doesn't support mod_lisp anymore 20:55:41 you can use mod_proxy 20:55:43 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:44 stassats: also, I can't figureout how to stop the hunchentoot server... stop-server wants an argumetn, but no matter what I give it, it doesn't like it 20:55:58 nyef: this is a step towards removing all of the declaration hackery to make sb-alien work properly? 20:55:59 ok, that's what I was thinking. just mentioning this since IIRC you asked whether there were any use cases that your protocol wouldn't support 20:56:01 stassats: so then http://www.newartisans.com/2007/11/running-common-lisp-behind-apache.html is no longer correct? 20:56:18 jsnell: I did. And it's good to know that I can't actually support everything, or possibly anything 20:56:21 slyrus: What declaration hackery did you have in mind? 20:56:26 do-symbols has also been mentioned as a complete breakage 20:56:27 bzwahr: yep, hunchentoot got quite an upgrade not so long time ago 20:56:57 nyef: ISTR needing various declarations back when I was doing sb-alien hackery. i'll go check my old code. 20:57:11 slyrus: To my mind, this is a step towards making sb-alien not generate actually wrong code for one of my projects. 20:57:40 stassats: I've never used mod_proxy... tips? I see somethign on http://www.weitz.de/hunchentoot/#install about it 20:58:09 nyeg: I don't see 201 in BUGS 20:58:11 nyef even 20:58:12 neither did i, http://www.weitz.de/hunchentoot/#proxy should help 20:58:47 stassats: well that could very well be my problem :-P 20:59:02 slyrus: Yes. Because it was removed in 1.0.28.2. 20:59:12 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 20:59:27 stassats: but hunchentoot can also run as its own server, right? are there are reasons to/not to do this? 21:00:17 caching, serving static content? 21:00:46 but i don't think you need to worry about such things yet 21:01:29 Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.97.159] has joined #lisp 21:01:43 stassats: are those reasons against hunchentoot? I'm just playing with it at the moment, giving me some lisp practice. I develop web sites professionally, using apache, so I thought it'd be nice to stick with it 21:02:55 no, these are the reasons for some frontend in front of it 21:03:30 stassats: which is what I meant, but stated incorrectly 21:04:00 stassats: so you use hunchentoot with mod_proxy? 21:04:14 i use it behind lighttpd 21:04:40 stassats: ah... I have no idea what to do with these two statements. do I put them in my vhost file or do they go somewhere else? I've never messed with mod_proxy 21:04:44 with its analogue of mod_proxy 21:05:08 fastcgi is also a option or mod_lisp 21:05:32 younder: no, it's not 21:05:33 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142068149037.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:35 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:05:37 younder: stassats said that hunchentoot doesn't work with mod_lisp anymore 21:05:56 slyrus: What I'm starting to get a feel for is how the alien type system works, how the various compiler transforms work, and what things are slow. Theoretically, you shouldn't need -any- declarations in order for things to be right, just for (some) things to be fast. 21:06:11 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-67.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:06:17 Not? It did the last time I used it. What has changed? 21:06:28 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:34 it got removed 21:07:14 projections [n=p@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 21:09:29 I just switched to sbcl and Linux and haven't gotten everything up and running yet. So I'm just using a plain Lisp server. Maybe I will just stick with that. 21:09:36 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44a6c7.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:09:50 Uh-oh. I may just have screwed up my commit. 21:10:26 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-70-240-13-45.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:11:32 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:11:49 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.97.159] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:12:27 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.68.107] has joined #lisp 21:12:59 Spent the best part of the day removing the dependencies of asdf on soft links by writing a routine that scans the common-lisp directory and enrolls all sub directories with asdf files in asdf:*system-register*. Booring, but these small tasks tend to pay off in the end. 21:13:36 younder: ... You know that there are already versions of that very routine floating around, right? 21:13:53 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:14:56 (Typically used for windows deployments, as windows doesn't (or didn't) have symlinks.) 21:15:14 raph_m [n=raph_m@c-76-115-107-160.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:21 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@121.13.178.141] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:15:37 Yes, sure I am reinventing the weel. But, whatever, this way I know what it does. 21:16:03 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:08 nyef: Vista has them 21:16:23 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:16:50 Yes, hence the parenthetical part of my parenthetical statement. 21:16:56 where else but programming do you ever hear people say it's that easier to write than it is to read. 21:17:28 foom: A gathering of the visually impaired? 21:18:18 I like it. 21:19:28 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:39 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:20:17 *_3b* finds another advantage of red-on-black color scheme, makes it much less obvious that colors don't match on adjacent monitors 21:20:17 drafael [n=tapio@130.216.93.231] has joined #lisp 21:20:44 ... "Why not just calibrate both monitors properly?" 21:21:13 <_3b> that's the plan eventually, first i have to figure out how to do that though 21:21:56 *nyef* suspects that his next trick will be a :typep or :typep-gen alien-type-method. 21:22:12 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:17 fire xgamma repeatedly 21:22:27 lukego [n=lukegorr@210.11.76.84] has joined #lisp 21:23:21 "bastard!" 21:24:23 also, if you happen to have .icc files (ColorSync profiles) for the monitors, xcalib does it 21:24:43 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:25:18 S11001001: Do you have any solutions for those with USB monitor-calibration things? (colorimeters?) 21:25:43 no 21:25:54 I calibrated this monitor with my eye and those pattern thingies 21:25:55 Pity. That would actually be useful. 21:26:06 and I use the colorsync file on my macbook 21:26:15 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 21:26:16 drafael1 [n=tapio@130.216.93.231] has joined #lisp 21:26:41 Meh. I think the pattern thingies are for the scanner. Then use the scanner as a colorimeter to calibrate the printer... 21:27:37 <_3b> hmm, actually i guess i could just take a picture of both monitors to compare them, since i don't care about any absolute calibration 21:27:40 -!- drafael [n=tapio@130.216.93.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:27:41 pkhuong pasted "Tries... (rainy day)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79791 21:27:54 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:28:24 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.6.233.29] has joined #lisp 21:29:54 -!- dysinger [n=tim@64.65.187.250] has quit [] 21:31:15 Also added support for defmacro! and readmacro regexp support using cl-ppcre alla (funcall #~m/\d+/ "1234") from Doug Hoyte's book "Let over Lambda" 21:31:16 dysinger [n=tim@64.65.187.250] has joined #lisp 21:31:44 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-188.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 21:32:07 -!- dysinger [n=tim@64.65.187.250] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:18 Though the source is on the web you REALLY should get the book if you intend to use some of it. 21:32:22 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:33:54 -!- ejs [n=eugen@9-240-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:33:57 -!- Spyderco2 [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Client Quit] 21:34:59 rpg [n=rpg@72.11.106.198] has joined #lisp 21:35:11 how is that better than (cl-ppcre:match "\\d+" "1233") 21:35:19 nikodemus pasted "take two" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79793 21:36:38 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:37:33 stassats: well for one thing the double \ is unneccesairy and it more accuratly follows the syntax of Perl regular expressions 21:38:04 follows perl? oh dear 21:38:07 nikodemus: How does that interact with a function declaring the dimensions of *leech* within its scope? 21:38:25 The benefits are of cource greater in long complex regular expressions than my toy example 21:38:58 xof: I was too polite to say it! :-) how is life? 21:39:15 what's the state of Lisp on ARM systems like e.g. Linux on TI OMAP? 21:39:33 pkhuong: :INITIAL-ELEMENT currently makes MAKE-ARRAY dog slow 21:39:42 stassats: realistically, where do you look up the syntax.. POD's of cource 21:40:13 nyef: that's one of the missing bits. instead of signalling a type error this same error should be signalled 21:40:35 that is, right now you'll get a type error 21:42:09 And then what happens if *base* is subsequently resized to be able to support *leech* again? 21:42:52 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:43:26 divia_ [n=divia@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 21:43:35 Why does initial-element make it slot? 21:43:39 divia [n=divia@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 21:44:02 tcr: it has to write the initial element to each slot of the array: O(N). 21:44:23 dysinger [n=tim@64.65.187.250] has joined #lisp 21:45:17 tcr: to initialize a memory range to zero, we can just ask pages to the OS: it will not allocate the pages, but map them to a zeroed page, set as COW. 21:45:38 tcr: because current transforms can't cope with it 21:47:29 What are the consequences of trying to print an array that has been created without initial-element? Could the fields contain arbitrary data that may be interpreted rather badly? 21:47:46 Depending in the :element-type, yes. 21:47:56 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@130.216.93.231] has quit [Client Quit] 21:48:14 GrayMagiker [n=steve@c-68-35-128-231.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:22 plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:23 Wouldn't that also risk bad GC interaction? 21:48:24 -!- lenst [n=user@90-229-132-172-no52.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:48:33 Right that's my next question :) 21:48:42 in sbcl it's safe. all arrays are zero initialized 21:48:56 But it's not portably safe, right? 21:48:57 I don't think so, since GC doesn't take into account the declared type, but the actual value types (from the type tags). 21:49:07 but portably accessing a potentially uninitialized array element is undefined 21:49:17 or maybe unspecficied -- bad at any rate 21:49:21 stassats: sweet :) I have hunchentoot workign thorugh mod_proxy now :) 21:49:57 lukego_ [n=lukegorr@210.11.76.84] has joined #lisp 21:50:03 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@210.11.76.84] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:50:06 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:27 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:50:34 #+sbcl (the float (aref (make-array 4 :element-type 'float) 0)) --> type-error. 21:52:00 sure what would you expect? 21:52:11 yes. specify a proper float type -- single-float, double-float -- and the initialization works as expected 21:52:12 Nothing else. 21:52:35 lukego [n=lukegorr@210.11.76.84] has joined #lisp 21:53:03 does anyone have any experience getting cl-smtp to work? I tried sending a test email, but I got "Condition USOCKET:CONNECTION-REFUSED-ERROR was signalled." and I'm not sure how to debug 21:54:10 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=greg@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:30 divia_: check the IP address of your SMTP server. Check if it runs some smtpd daemon (on port 25). 21:55:08 pjb: thanks, I'll try that 21:55:49 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:06 divia: Under Linux you need root access to connect a server to ports under 1024 21:56:17 younder: that's false. 21:56:20 As a listener only. 21:56:22 about array initialization (missed some of pjb's comments): since our fresh pages are always zero'ed zero initialization is fast. filling should not be too terrible, but currently :INITIAL-ELEMENT or :INITIAL-CONTENTS inhibits some of the important MAKE-ARRAY transforms, causing it to take the dog-slow path 21:57:30 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-188.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 21:57:34 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 21:59:31 um. it seems i'm wrong 21:59:44 :initial-element doesn't appear to be as bad as it used to be 21:59:55 :initial-contents still suck badly 22:00:00 just ignore me 22:00:24 -!- nikodemus 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23:50:40 if you have $$$ then yes... 23:51:27 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 23:51:34 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Client Quit] 23:51:57 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has left #lisp 23:52:03 -!- schoppen2auer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:53:50 alec [n=alec@pool-96-237-2-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:27 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:18 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r5ba92.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]