00:00:12 Also not proposed seriously. 00:00:25 sounds good to me. Someone can ressurrect it as a 64bit port. :) 00:00:43 Alpha's weirdness can be useful way of weeding bugs (see linux kernel and memory barriers :D) 00:01:03 I'd consider at least doing an assessment of how much work would be involved, but I don't have an alpha or a working emulator. 00:01:49 fe[nl]ix annotated #79633 "SBCL static vectors for CFFI" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79633#5 00:02:32 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:21 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:03:22 nyef: 79633#5 is the reason why I need this function. I want static arrays usable for writev 00:03:33 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 00:04:32 hmmm... I only have EV45, and under VMS with little memory... that would be a courageous port :D 00:05:32 p_l: But what a port to see! 00:05:59 Just let me get perry working properly, and I'll help if I can. 00:06:50 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-1-14.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:07:48 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.14] has joined #lisp 00:08:21 Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.236.80] has joined #lisp 00:12:40 facetious [n=facetiou@66.92.130.200] has joined #lisp 00:13:43 -!- facetious [n=facetiou@66.92.130.200] has quit [Client Quit] 00:13:54 facetious [n=facetiou@66.92.130.200] has joined #lisp 00:14:19 -!- facetious [n=facetiou@66.92.130.200] has quit [Client Quit] 00:16:55 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087ECBB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:17:10 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 00:18:36 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:20:37 jfactor [n=jfactor@64.254.166.11] has joined #lisp 00:20:53 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2530.versanet.de] has quit [No route to host] 00:22:22 benny [n=benny@i577A0ABD.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:23:01 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0ABD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:23:53 benny [n=benny@i577A0ABD.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:25:53 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0ABD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:26:39 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-70-181.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:27:56 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-77-160.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:31:11 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209.161.231.13] has joined #lisp 00:31:19 brandelune [n=suzume@pl428.nas932.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:31:45 benny [n=benny@i577A0ABD.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:32:51 beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-89-237.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:33:00 -!- BrandonWilson [n=a@216.71.225.62] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:33:06 BrandonWilson [n=a@216.71.225.62] has joined #lisp 00:35:29 Does CL specify anything regarding whether side-effects of a macro-expander run during compile-file must be retained in the compiling environment? 00:35:50 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:36:54 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:04 e.g. if the macro-expander calls (setf *x* 5), would a CL be in the right to reset that when compile-file returns. 00:37:21 I believe so. 00:37:33 There's a section on the various environments at compile-time. 00:38:17 clhs 3.2.1 00:38:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_ba.htm 00:38:41 Have a look at the definitions of the four environments. 00:40:12 There's the term "inherits from", which allows some leeway as well. 00:40:36 also the "might be identical" 00:40:57 But yes, that seems to indicate that the startup environment need not ever be modified by anything compilation does 00:41:25 Indeed. 00:41:36 Oh, wait. 00:41:55 It -really- depends on the definition of "inherits from". 00:42:45 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 00:43:12 Because it could mean that the identity-breaking aspect of the environments might be as simple as extra special bindings. 00:43:25 s/extra/additional/. 00:44:27 inherit is defined in the glossary as: inherit v.t. 1. to receive or acquire a quality, trait, or characteristic; to gain access to a feature defined elsewhere 00:44:29 useful. :) 00:44:52 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-122-8.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:45:29 Yeah, but it could be defined more preciesely in, say, 3.1.1 Introduction to Environments. 00:47:22 -!- jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:47:46 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:19 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-70-181.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:48:42 Lovely. The glossary can't even seem to decide if there is only one dynamic environment or if there can be more than one. 00:48:46 -!- topo_ [n=topo@77.228.136.95] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:48:54 http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/true-believers-biggest-cults-in-tech-433?page=0,5 via /. 00:49:25 Err... Nevermind. 3.1.1.2 clarifies the wording used in the glossary. 00:49:43 rhencke [n=rhencke@adsl-71-143-181-49.dsl.ltrkar.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:27 IA IA LAMBDA F'THAGN 00:51:59 IA IA 00:52:26 Who will be called...first? 00:52:54 -!- cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 00:53:16 right, so I'm still unclear about the requirements. :) 00:53:20 spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-192-100.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:35 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 00:57:38 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.14] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:00:19 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0ABD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:00:32 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.14] has joined #lisp 01:02:02 published cl-recaptcha on github, if anyone would need it (again, nothing perfect but its straight-forward) (will add to cliki.net later) 01:02:02 Kirklander [n=Kirkland@216.93.247.56] has joined #lisp 01:03:00 -!- Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has quit ["Balooga has no reason"] 01:04:19 dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-68-142-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:05:10 ianmcorvidae: ping 01:05:41 madnificent: What's it do? 01:06:05 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@93.34.8.7] has quit ["leaving"] 01:06:52 sykopomp: pong 01:07:18 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:08:10 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:54 dialtone [n=dialtone@93.34.8.7] has joined #lisp 01:09:16 nyef: connect to recaptcha.com to fetch & check captchas 01:09:36 -!- Symmetry- [n=thezog@host-static-92-114-165-252.moldtelecom.md] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:09:40 ... Okay. I guess. 01:09:49 nyef: I had a small talk about it here a few hours ago, so I thought I'd better give a status-update :) 01:09:59 Fair enough. 01:10:15 It's basically a web-service thing for captchas? 01:10:22 yes 01:10:32 nyef: and you help scanning books with it (apparantly) 01:10:59 Damn, that's an even better scheme than the porn site one for getting captchas answered automatically. 01:11:37 combine // ??? // profit \o/ 01:11:57 kinnetica [n=kinnetic@208-58-64-106.c3-0.129-ubr4.lnh-129.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:14:47 then think about "the ipv6 experiment" :D 01:15:12 porn for the sake of IPv6 :P 01:16:05 Why is the first thing that comes to mind "the sontaran experiment"? 01:17:22 -!- rhencke [n=rhencke@adsl-71-143-181-49.dsl.ltrkar.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 01:17:39 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@119.128.236.80] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:18:27 ? 01:18:46 joast1 [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 01:19:26 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:20:36 -!- GrayMagiker [n=steve@c-68-35-128-231.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:21:18 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 01:24:49 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 01:26:14 Vegan [n=sdfpme@116.4.100.99] has joined #lisp 01:26:36 smelterboygoku [n=smelterb@dhcp-151-161.mobile.uci.edu] has joined #lisp 01:26:43 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [Client Quit] 01:27:02 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 01:28:06 *p_l* read up on sontaran experiment 01:28:14 Dr Who is everywhere... 01:28:27 -!- smelterboygoku [n=smelterb@dhcp-151-161.mobile.uci.edu] has left #lisp 01:31:03 Oh yeah, it -was- a Dr. Who episode, wasn't it? 01:31:26 The name just popped out of a hash collision in my memory, so I didn't get the background. 01:32:02 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:32:03 Would have to be one of doctors 3-5, wouldn't it? 01:32:39 holycow [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has joined #lisp 01:34:30 Fourth Doctor, according to Wikipedia 01:34:39 Sounds about right. 01:34:44 *p_l* had seen only one incomplete Dr Who episode in his whole life... 01:35:05 Wasn't impressed with his son, but the father was okay as the doctor. 01:35:09 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 01:36:56 rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:57 hah. "(Colin) Baker made his first appearance in Doctor Who as Commander Maxil in the story Arc of Infinity." 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Strav [n=user@dsl-216-221-34-174.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 03:33:08 holycow [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has joined #lisp 03:33:28 -!- Guest89708 is now known as bascule 03:33:58 -!- bascule is now known as Guest69765 03:35:15 he. Small question. From a defmacro having x as a parameter, I wish it to expand into something like: (defun x-suffix () body), how can I generate the symbol x-suffix? (I wish to do something like (make-symbol ,x '-suffix) 03:35:56 <_3b> alexandria:symbolicate? 03:36:19 yea. mostly a symbol concatenation. 03:36:40 is that a standard function or? 03:36:53 -!- Guest69765 is now known as bascule 03:36:54 give a man a fish.. 03:36:59 <_3b> or if you need more control, (intern (format nil "~a~a" x "-suffix")) 03:37:04 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:37:23 -!- bascule is now known as Guest83878 03:37:24 <_3b> or maybe find-symbol in place of intern if x-suffix should already exist 03:37:48 <_3b> minion: alexandria 03:37:49 alexandria: Alexandria is a collection of portable public domain utilities. http://www.cliki.net/alexandria 03:38:34 hefner: even with a fishing net, you still need some fish. (and to troll ;) 03:38:59 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:24 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Client Quit] 03:39:39 _3b: let me see the doc for intern. 03:40:19 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.137.241] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 03:40:29 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.137.241] has joined #lisp 03:40:34 I do (intern (format nil "~A-SUFFIX" (symbol-name foo))) 03:42:36 hefner: no need to repeat. My point was to see if intern was the most appropriate function for my case. 03:43:09 *hefner* zaps strav with his laser eyes 03:43:25 I didn't repeat for the sake of repeating. 03:45:41 Well forgive me then. 03:45:49 <_3b> yeah, hefner's version probbly works better than mine :) 03:46:20 shouldn't I prefer something like (make-symbol? 03:46:35 <_3b> what do you want todo with the created symbol? 03:47:18 <_3b> if you want to define a function or something, using an uninterned symbol would make it hard to call the function later 03:48:09 <_3b> if you just need something EQ comparable with a readable name, an uninterned symbol from make-symbol might be appropriate 03:48:13 I see. Hence make-symbol is only for some local scope? 03:48:16 -!- Guest83878 [i=noether@62.75.255.124] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:49:03 intern is what I need then. Thanks for the precision. 03:51:02 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:51:16 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:58 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 03:59:26 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 04:01:08 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-31-222.netcologne.de] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 04:01:20 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-31-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:01:53 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-31-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:02:00 -!- nyef [n=nyef@vcwl1-61.daktel.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 04:02:25 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-31-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:02:34 -!- Strav [n=user@dsl-216-221-34-174.aei.ca] has left #lisp 04:05:25 me wonders if keyword symbols should have a function cell. is there ever a need for (:foo ..)? 04:06:08 similarly, I wonder if men really need nipples.. 04:06:43 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-31-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 04:06:49 allow me to resist the urge to share freaky autobiographical information 04:07:45 my early ad for an html-parser was considered NSF#L 04:08:50 22:36:22 single, bidirectional flexi-stream seeking a discrete html parser for private unicode-aware good times. will provide the necessary element-type and external-format. 04:10:54 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:12:32 |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-31-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:14:23 -!- |sepult| [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-31-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 04:14:23 drafael [n=tapio@118.90.131.49] has joined #lisp 04:14:57 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-31-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:15:25 -!- aja [n=aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:18:15 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-082-212-032-239.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [] 04:18:25 rullie_ [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:22:30 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 04:22:57 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.137.241] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:24:34 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.137.241] has joined #lisp 04:29:32 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-19-211.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 04:32:13 SandGorgon_ [n=user@122.163.209.131] has joined #lisp 04:34:19 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:35:42 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.137.241] has quit [Success] 04:39:57 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:40:37 topo [n=topo@77.228.136.95] has joined #lisp 04:45:15 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-4-42.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:47:40 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:01 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:48:08 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 04:51:23 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209.161.231.13] has quit [Client Quit] 04:56:17 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-18-33.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:58:14 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 04:58:44 unixluser [i=zd32nv@creep.bur.st] has joined #lisp 04:58:56 hello. are emacs options written in lisp 04:59:12 ie, configuring emacs init with lisp 04:59:38 <_3b> #emacs knows more about emacs, but generally yes, emacs lisp specifically 04:59:54 basically there's an option for emacs that i'd like to pass argument 'BUF' to in place of BUFFER..but i'm unsure as to how it's done 04:59:59 the description of it is: 05:00:01 (erc-echo-notice-in-target-buffer S PARSED BUFFER SENDER) 05:00:47 so there's 4 parameters to it, right? 05:01:14 yes 05:01:20 pass it as the third parameter 05:01:31 so how do i ignore other 3? 05:02:51 here's the emacs snippet for that: http://pastebin.com/f4d44cba0 05:04:32 o someting like (setq erc-echo-notice-in-target-buffer `(nil nil BUF nil)) ? 05:05:52 <_3b> sounds like you just want to rewrite that function 05:06:04 -!- djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:06:31 <_3b> replace the body with (erc-display-message parsed nil BUF s) t 05:06:56 oh no 05:07:00 sorry if i wasn't clear 05:07:10 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:200:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:07:14 i want a target buffer (named BUF) to be passed to that function 05:08:34 <_3b> but having it behave as if you passed that to it even if you didn't won't work? 05:09:03 <_3b> if you want to change what is passed to it, you need to change whatever calls it then (or figure out how said caller is intended to be customized) 05:10:51 sorry i don't quite follow 05:11:13 <_3b> the docstring on that function says you should put on one of 2 hooks, is that what you are doing? 05:11:20 yes 05:11:41 <_3b> ok, so why can't you just put a differnt function on the hook, that does what you want? 05:12:24 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 05:12:27 <_3b> (or ask #emacs, who might actually know how to configure erc :) 05:12:28 http://pastebin.com/f48673a53 05:12:47 i just thought it was a general lisp thing 05:13:04 liike how you can specify arguments to int main () etc 05:13:47 <_3b> you mean by putting them on the commandline when you run something from bash? :) 05:14:01 yes 05:14:22 _3b: will something like (setq erc-echo-notice-in-target-buffer `(nil nil BUF nil)) 05:14:26 work? 05:14:32 <_3b> well, same thing here... something in ERC calls that function... so either you modify that part of erc, or you modify the function to ignore the arg 05:14:59 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:30 i kinda see what you're saying 05:15:35 <_3b> no, that would set the variable erc-echo-notice-in-target-buffer to the list (nil nil buf nil), which would ve about as helpful as int main=1; in c 05:15:41 Jabberwockey [n=jens@p54BB084D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:16:34 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:16:41 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 05:17:04 <_3b> the reason i suggest #emacs is that there might be some way to configure ERC to pass the buffer you want 05:17:20 -!- rullie_ [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:17:25 <_3b> also, this channel is mostly about common lisp, which is not quite the same as emacs lisp 05:17:32 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:17:33 yeah, i'm there, and i can hear water drops from distant towns 05:17:51 i just hoped it was something on lisp syntax 05:18:35 i understand now that there are four parameters 05:18:44 and that i shouldn't set the other three to nil 05:19:08 because then i'd lose 1. actual message itself 2. whoever sent it 3. server sent on 05:19:14 <_3b> well, setting the message you want printed to NIL would be a bit silly :) 05:19:17 <_3b> right 05:19:18 yeah 05:20:08 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-7.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:18 _3b: so i need to figure out what is being passed to this hook, right? 05:20:34 i only know of apropos to see what can be input, not what is returned 05:20:47 <_3b> if you want, i'd just put a different function on the hook 05:22:56 Krystof [n=csr21@84.51.132.95] has joined #lisp 05:23:16 <_3b> or wait for someone on #emacs to wake up who knows erc better :) 05:24:49 did a bit of investigating, and there is a snippet for ercs function that takes several args too 05:24:55 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:25:17 turns out there's 'buffer-name' 'msg' though i can't figure out sender 05:27:07 hm, if no sender can be found, i can only address three parameters then 05:27:57 string, nil (server), buffer (targetbuffer) sender (source buffer) 05:28:14 crap 05:29:47 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 05:31:21 djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has joined #lisp 05:38:20 -!- SandGorgon_ is now known as SandGorgon 05:39:49 -!- djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:40:23 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:40:36 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 05:43:19 ejs [n=eugen@73-161-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:38 Hello 05:48:11 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@116.4.100.99] has quit ["leaving"] 05:48:30 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:48:35 djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has joined #lisp 05:53:11 envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:53:12 CrazyEddy [n=antiphlo@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 05:53:30 -!- envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:54:54 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-9fac42d8896e0bcd] has joined #lisp 05:56:05 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-9fac42d8896e0bcd] has left #lisp 05:56:38 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 05:58:27 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:10:27 -!- kapolonc [n=user@78.33.52.101] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:17:23 splittist [n=dmurray@116-26.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:17:27 morning 06:18:47 -!- trebor_d` [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:18:52 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-31-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:19:00 trebor_d` [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 06:19:18 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-31-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:20:37 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.209.131] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:22:19 xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:22:50 -!- ejs [n=eugen@73-161-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:23:03 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.170.204] has joined #lisp 06:28:30 -!- fnordus [n=dnall@70.71.225.48] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:29:06 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:30:33 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118.90.131.49] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:34:14 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-216.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:34:21 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@p54BB084D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:35:06 ASau` [n=user@host28-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 06:36:37 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:45:42 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@82.181.229.41] has joined #lisp 06:45:49 huh 06:45:53 paragent.com 06:45:58 their product appearently is coded in lisp 06:46:06 with c++ and java clients for managing windows desktops 06:46:07 neat 06:49:07 luis` [n=user@r42.eu] has joined #lisp 06:51:25 holycow: they even hang around here 06:51:57 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-205-8.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:00 -!- luis [n=user@r42.eu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:52:18 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:52:39 -!- zbrown [n=rufius@unaffiliated/zbrown] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:52:42 zbrown [n=rufius@70.99.184.110] has joined #lisp 06:53:03 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 06:53:21 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 06:55:05 what? 06:55:09 holy crap, thats cool 06:55:37 -!- djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:55:46 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-145-45.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:56:04 KingNato_ [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 06:56:19 -!- KingNato_ [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:56:21 -!- KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:56:25 KingNato [n=patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 06:58:15 morning 06:58:24 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:58:43 trebor_d`: ... backwards for robert, is it? 06:59:03 Vegan [n=sdfpme@116.4.100.99] has joined #lisp 06:59:12 holycow: yes, indeed ;) 06:59:28 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@116.4.100.99] has quit [Client Quit] 07:00:23 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:02:12 projections [n=p@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 07:02:46 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:03:44 djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has joined #lisp 07:04:37 mega1 [n=mega@53d83a01.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:05:21 good name 07:05:24 i have one just like it 07:05:25 :) 07:06:26 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:07:29 good morning 07:10:02 -!- holycow [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:12:14 Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 07:13:12 holycow [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has joined #lisp 07:14:02 moin mvilleneuve 07:16:21 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 07:17:12 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:17:21 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 07:18:22 paragent.com brought two thoughts to mind 07:18:55 the first at how impressive it woud be to see a site for a product/service that was totally devoid of pitch 07:18:56 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:19:18 or rather is, since it's not uncommon 07:20:09 and the second at how the sales effort needs to be sort of inversely proportional to the value or value/price of the thing pitched 07:22:32 their pricing model is particularly compelling 07:22:47 i'm just curious what kind of lisp and compiler they are using 07:23:00 ejs [n=eugen@73-161-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:02 pardon me, what implementation they are using 07:23:05 The Power of Price compels you! 07:24:01 actually lisp compels me just as much 07:24:26 as i'm mucking out in stumpwm and various lisp bits here and there i'm noticing that i'm learning it bit by bit much like i did for bash 07:25:11 i didn't see anything about lisp at the sife, maybe I have the wrong one 07:25:18 *site 07:25:18 paragent.com? 07:25:22 yes 07:25:27 google lisp site:paragent.com 07:27:13 come back during the US day, others will give it its due 07:29:55 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 07:31:26 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-205-8.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:32:07 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84.51.132.95] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 07:32:35 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 07:34:09 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 07:37:43 hyperbor1ean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 07:38:03 aerique [i=euqirea@194.109.21.3] has joined #lisp 07:38:27 -!- ejs [n=eugen@73-161-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:39:04 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:39:07 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:43:10 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:29 Vegan [n=sdfpme@116.4.100.99] has joined #lisp 07:47:34 ejs2 [n=eugen@91.124.161.73] has joined #lisp 07:49:40 -!- seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 07:49:42 adityo [n=adityo@59.183.17.171] has joined #lisp 07:50:01 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:57:58 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 07:58:08 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:00:30 Ragnaroek [i=54a662aa@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b2257263d3112012] has joined #lisp 08:00:39 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 08:02:18 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 08:03:06 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.170.204] has quit ["I used to understand this stuff. Now I just fake it."] 08:06:29 hi, irc question. how do I reset password here? from as far as I remember (3 years?), I am greeted by: "-NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify ." and " -NickServ- Invalid password for Puchacz." 08:07:24 well.. 08:07:38 do nickserv give any hints other than what you have pasted? 08:07:54 else i guess you can do a /msg NickServ help 08:07:57 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:08:00 or else ask a network admin 08:08:09 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:08:13 Good morning 08:08:57 hello plage 08:11:27 Morning. 08:12:13 -!- BrandonWilson [n=a@216.71.225.62] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:15:23 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 08:15:33 -!- dwave-_ [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has quit [Client Quit] 08:15:51 dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has joined #lisp 08:16:57 fnordus [n=dnall@70.71.225.48] has joined #lisp 08:21:12 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:22:06 -!- puchacz is now known as puchacz_ 08:23:17 -!- puchacz_ [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:23:48 puchacz [n=puchacz@87.194.5.99] has joined #lisp 08:23:58 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:25:06 -!- holycow [n=rtaylor@64.151.208.1] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:25:39 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:25:53 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-216.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:26:10 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 08:33:32 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 08:33:33 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-31-222.netcologne.de] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 08:33:44 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-143.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 08:40:30 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6F3FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:24 drafael [n=tapio@118.90.133.143] has joined #lisp 08:46:50 ¡Feliz Cinco de Mayo! 08:48:47 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 08:48:57 What? Didn't we French tax payer give money to bank this year again? 08:49:14 +s +s 08:50:13 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-230.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:51:48 rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-109.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:54:43 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 08:54:53 matimago, isn't it all about the same in countries of anglo-dutch liberal capitalism? 08:56:22 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-195-7.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:58:40 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.170.204] has joined #lisp 08:59:37 -!- hyperbor1ean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:01:27 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@p21-n238.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #lisp 09:01:28 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@91.124.161.73] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:03:37 HG` [n=wells@89.166.161.227] has joined #lisp 09:06:05 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-141.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:30 deepfire: yes, but in the case of the Cinco de Mayo, it concerned directly France vs. Mexican debt. 09:09:37 -!- HG` [n=wells@89.166.161.227] has quit [Client Quit] 09:15:04 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:20:07 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 09:20:57 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 09:23:14 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-202-230.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:28:54 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 09:29:57 HG` [n=wells@xdsleb227.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:31:21 ejs2 [n=eugen@154-110-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:38 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-139.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:37:27 gemelen [n=shelta@78.36.166.16] has joined #lisp 09:39:08 -!- ia_ [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:40:21 ia_ [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 09:45:06 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdsleb227.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 09:47:34 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 09:53:29 -!- manic12_ [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:55:13 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 09:56:21 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@82.181.229.41] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:59:10 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:59:23 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 10:02:45 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118.90.133.143] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:03:15 drafael [n=tapio@118.90.133.143] has joined #lisp 10:04:04 deepfire: ????? 10:05:47 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@154-110-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:06:23 ThomasI [n=thomas@77-23-123-231-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:08:11 jao [n=jao@80.24.4.74] has joined #lisp 10:08:22 Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 10:09:15 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:11:52 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a662aa@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b2257263d3112012] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 10:12:30 Ragnaroek [i=54a662aa@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-828e7bf7f6f9e951] has joined #lisp 10:12:41 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@82.181.146.177] has joined #lisp 10:14:55 -!- ivenkys [n=ivenkys@unaffiliated/ivenkys] has quit ["leaving"] 10:23:49 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-221-237.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:24 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-221-237.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:30:42 -!- xan_ is now known as xan 10:31:42 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-133-108.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:44 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-166-141.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:33:46 Modius__ [n=Modius@99.179.101.129] has joined #lisp 10:40:20 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@116.4.100.99] has quit ["leaving"] 10:44:06 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-133-108.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:45:29 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:46:46 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 10:48:01 -!- dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:51:01 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:51:28 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@p21-n238.kthopen.kth.se] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 10:54:42 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 10:54:47 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216.171.189.59] has quit [] 10:55:07 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:54 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@99.179.101.129] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:56:15 Modius__ [n=Modius@99.179.101.129] has joined #lisp 11:02:20 ferada [n=user@f054014225.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:03:39 dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has joined #lisp 11:03:48 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 11:06:15 -!- jao [n=jao@80.24.4.74] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:06:38 jao [n=jao@80.24.4.74] has joined #lisp 11:08:44 grifaton [n=peter@78.145.173.133] has joined #lisp 11:10:21 dwave_ [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has joined #lisp 11:11:08 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@82.181.146.177] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:11:28 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:11:37 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-9fac42d8896e0bcd] has joined #lisp 11:11:46 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:12:39 when i do a "(defpackage 'abc (:use :cl-pkg))", do i also need to do a "(require :cl-pkg)"? 11:13:46 package CL-PKG should be defined before 11:14:28 (by any means) 11:15:57 stassats`: thanks 11:15:59 -!- dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:16:25 i'm facing a problem in which i have similar (actually almost same) code in 2 files, which involves using cl-who 11:16:35 elias` [n=me@194.81.255.254] has joined #lisp 11:16:59 it's compiling fine in one file (actually reddit.lisp -- eric normand) and not in the other 11:17:17 i'd suggest using asdf 11:17:23 i'm getting errors like:- ; caught WARNING: 11:17:24 ; undefined variable: LET 11:17:24 ; caught WARNING: 11:17:24 ; These variables are undefined: 11:17:24 ; #:G21 #:G22 #:G24 #:G25 LET 11:17:44 and i'm not able to make the head or tail of it :( 11:17:59 that's probably because some macro isn't defined 11:18:13 stassats`: i've loaded the pkgs using the command:- (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'cl-who) (and similar) 11:18:22 is that right, or have i missed out something? 11:18:24 spradnyesh: http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html here is how to use asdf 11:18:25 -!- ferada [n=user@f054014225.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:18:34 for your two files 11:19:03 http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/true-believers-biggest-cults-in-tech-433?page=0,5 11:19:06 "Tech cult No. 5: The Order of the Lisp" 11:19:37 "There is no cult!" 11:20:08 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [] 11:21:35 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 11:22:02 stassats`: that link is great! is that your page? 11:22:21 spradnyesh: nope, that's Xach's page 11:23:00 (he doesn't go here often anymore) 11:24:00 -!- mtd_ is now known as mtd 11:25:17 Vegan [n=sdfpme@116.4.100.99] has joined #lisp 11:25:50 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@116.4.100.99] has quit [Client Quit] 11:27:36 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-9fac42d8896e0bcd] has left #lisp 11:28:03 -!- danlei [n=user@pD954EFE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ein guter Abgang ziert die Übung."] 11:29:39 -!- PissedNumlock [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:30:40 bob_f [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 11:35:54 HG` [n=wells@85.8.89.62] has joined #lisp 11:38:55 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@99.179.101.129] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:39:16 Modius__ [n=Modius@99.179.101.129] has joined #lisp 11:42:02 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6F3FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 11:42:36 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:16 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit ["leaving"] 11:43:20 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:43:35 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-69-221.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:04 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:44:43 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:45:13 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 11:50:15 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCEA20.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:03 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:51:34 Joreji [n=thomas@46-111.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:51:57 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 11:55:20 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 11:55:39 elias` [n=me@194.81.255.254] has joined #lisp 11:56:26 Bacta [n=Tom@unaffiliated/bacta] has joined #lisp 11:56:31 I have a lisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssp 11:57:23 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 11:58:02 Numlock [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:58:10 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087AE28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:19 me too 11:58:30 Can I be the channel troll? 11:58:38 no 11:58:46 -!- Numlock is now known as PissedNumlock 11:58:52 why not? 11:58:54 Do you like me? 11:59:29 go away 11:59:49 :( 11:59:54 Did I do something wrong? 12:01:33 grifaton_ [n=peter@78.150.47.32] has joined #lisp 12:01:39 dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has joined #lisp 12:02:08 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 12:02:32 -!- Bacta [n=Tom@unaffiliated/bacta] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:02:38 phew 12:02:42 -!- spacebat_ is now known as spacebat 12:03:18 I inherited a G4 macbook yesterday and gave ClozureCL a spin 12:03:22 -!- grifaton [n=peter@78.145.173.133] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:03:31 mainly wanted to see what their IDE was like 12:03:38 but I think I prefer slime 12:03:57 HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:04:01 -!- HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:05:44 HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:09:14 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 12:09:15 the post on slashdot about 'the biggest cult in tech' doesn't look bad for lisp :) 12:09:36 but we're only #5! 12:09:46 behind ruby, what a shame 12:09:49 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118.90.133.143] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:09:50 spacebat: but there's nothing negative about us :D 12:10:06 oh I forgot that for a second 12:10:09 although guy steele could've been mentioned in the minor deities 12:10:16 anton [n=anton@77.106.223.233] has joined #lisp 12:11:28 The writer must have spent literally minutes on research... 12:13:12 splittist: if I were to write an article like that, I guess I'd just go to the right channel and trash some windows on the topic. Then see what references I got out of them (for cults, that should work). Doing that in #lisp would probably result in the talk with Bacta a bit earlier... so... 12:13:26 '"It helps that we're better than everyone else," jokes Obie Fernandez,' - on Ruby. The cheek! 12:13:51 rsynnott: ruby is a fun community for the most part of it 12:14:04 oh, they mean the community? 12:14:12 I thought they meant the terrible language :) 12:14:29 Vegan [n=sdfpme@116.4.100.99] has joined #lisp 12:14:30 (it would actually be okay if it wasn't quite so alarmingly, amazingly slow) 12:14:32 probably, ruby talk is rarely about the language (besides 'it looks sweet') 12:14:48 rsynnott: fixable issue, it was the same with lisp in the early days 12:15:01 so its more about... what? 12:15:07 fun 12:15:12 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087AE28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:15:17 *rsynnott* spent the bulk of friday writing analytics tools in python for the db of a ruby on rails app 12:15:20 so its not about ruby? 12:15:43 because when I tried to do it with ruby, it took forever and consumed an extra 10mb ram or so per sec 12:15:49 one of the things that many ruby-coders say is that ruby has put the fun back into coding for them 12:16:32 and now the same thing say producers of memory chips :) 12:17:09 ah so the ruby talk you speak of is people talking about the fun things they've written 12:17:13 mind you: most ruby-practitioners come from a Java-like background (many rails-users have a php background) 12:17:20 also, the common, braindead idiom, used, by law, in ALL rails tutorials to demonstrate how great rails is: User.create(params[:user]) 12:17:24 *rsynnott* grumbles 12:17:28 -!- dwave_ [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has quit [No route to host] 12:18:22 rsynnott: why do you hate it? 12:18:27 I'm a little uncomfortable with how the toplevel is obect scope 12:18:44 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-193-93-32.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:18:47 Rails in general, or above invitation to insecurity? :) 12:19:02 and that 40.87*100 prints as 4087, but compares as less than the literal 4087 12:19:03 *rsynnott* doesn't actually hate rails, though does think it's horribly overhyped 12:19:07 User.create(params[:user]) 12:19:47 yep, that's dangerous 12:20:19 (people inevitably add things like role/is_admin to the User object, then forget to filter them out) 12:20:49 rsynnott: that's what the validations are supposed to be for 12:21:10 rsynnott: and it should be solved with a decent inheritance system, which is indeed not accessible enough 12:21:24 there was an entertaining blog post from a while ago by a guy who took four large ruby projects, allegedly at random; three of them were vulnerable to any registered user becoming a superuser due to that exact mistake 12:21:30 *rails 12:22:28 -!- cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-177-99-140.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:22:42 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-177-99-140.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:47 X-Scale2 [n=email@89.180.188.211] has joined #lisp 12:23:03 ack 12:24:31 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.149.195] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:24:42 Modius [n=Modius@69.150.58.107] has joined #lisp 12:24:49 -!- X-Scale2 is now known as X-Scale 12:25:04 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:25:46 -!- Modius [n=Modius@69.150.58.107] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:26:06 Modius [n=Modius@69.150.58.107] has joined #lisp 12:26:14 drafael [n=tapio@118.90.133.143] has joined #lisp 12:26:27 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:56 Malbolgne [n=baal@h49n2fls303o885.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:28:36 zy-laptop [n=user@222.95.230.186] has joined #lisp 12:29:03 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:29:33 spacebat: here it prints as 4087.0 but indeed it's less than 4087, in Ruby. What a shame. 12:29:44 -!- HG` [n=wells@85.8.89.62] has quit [Client Quit] 12:30:29 cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.94.24] has joined #lisp 12:30:30 every other language I've tried prints out 4086.99999999 or so 12:30:41 at least they aren't lying in the output 12:30:59 -!- Malbolgne [n=baal@h49n2fls303o885.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:31:18 clisp prints 4087.0 but there it's not less than 4087. 12:31:28 yes CL gets it right 12:31:29 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@99.179.101.129] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:31:36 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:32:18 so... don't do maths with ruby 12:32:35 pike does it right too :D 12:32:47 I've never tried pike 12:33:00 Or on the contrary, have Rubyers do a lot of maths, and fail catastrophically, until the understand and switch to lisp? 12:33:13 s/the un/they un/ 12:33:20 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@116.4.100.99] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:33:22 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.94.24] has quit [Client Quit] 12:33:37 man, uninformed snobbery is really appealing 12:33:43 :P 12:33:50 cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.94.24] has joined #lisp 12:33:52 danlei [n=user@pD954EFE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:54 uniformed snobbery even more so 12:34:26 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:35:05 binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has joined #lisp 12:37:04 oh wait, I wasn't defending that ruby > lisp. Not at all. Only some info on how the ruby/rails community acts (at least with respect to a year ago or something like that) 12:37:04 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:37:15 -!- zy-laptop [n=user@222.95.230.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:37:18 sigh, 'with respect to' doesn't fit there 12:37:42 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118.90.133.143] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:39:45 lonesys [n=user@62.109.46.100] has joined #lisp 12:40:47 zy-laptop [n=user@222.95.230.186] has joined #lisp 12:41:12 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:41:21 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 12:45:20 adityo_ [n=adityo@59.183.58.100] has joined #lisp 12:46:49 -!- gtchma is now known as gtchma_ 12:48:30 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:49:11 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:50:12 -!- Joreji [n=thomas@46-111.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:52:15 *aerique* is happy he finally started using CMake 12:52:19 It sure takes away the pain of writing Makefiles for multiple platforms. 12:52:47 -!- zy-laptop [n=user@222.95.230.186] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:53:33 (and thus I can spend more time on the Lisp side of things.) 12:53:33 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:55:03 -!- HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:58:58 -!- adityo [n=adityo@59.183.17.171] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:59:00 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 13:00:38 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:01:14 cmake for lisp? 13:02:26 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCEA20.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:02:40 hello. being still a novice on (lisp &) clos i do think (defmethod foo :around (obj) (if (test obj) (call-next-method) nil)) will do the testing on object, regardless of objects-type/class, right? 13:05:46 yes, just (obj) means "any type/class" 13:06:53 stassats: no, although I did wonder about the possibilities of ASDF support in it :) I'm writing some CL bindings to C++ libraries at the moment so I have to make intermediate C wrappers. 13:08:07 stassats: CMake helps out there since I had Makefiles for different platforms and writing Makefiles isn't really my strong suit (and I didn't even have support for Visual C projects files, etc.) 13:09:32 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-128-68.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 13:10:10 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087AE28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:12 lnostdal: thank you very much - :around will save me a lot of time ;) 13:10:25 (defmethod (obj) ..) is like (defmethod ((obj t)) ...), but the latter won't warn you on unused OBJ (if you don't use it) 13:11:22 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-7.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:11:30 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:11:57 stassats: slime displays (defmethod foo (obj) ...) as (defmethod foo t) - therefore i was wondering if (object t) would be more/less general. thanks for your info. 13:12:15 (slime-*xref buffer) 13:13:03 yeah, clos/mop is awesome stuff, trebor_d` .. it takes a good deal (or it did for me) of time to kinda sink in though :) 13:13:50 *stassats* forgot half of the stuff about clos because of not using it very often 13:15:49 lnostdal: i admit, that i do not (have the time to) read much about clos/mop. only just-in-time-reading chapters of paip/pcl/scl. by now, i try to learn it by using it. 13:17:58 yeah, i had/have the same problem, trebor_d` 13:18:09 lnostdal: was it you who was doing that web framework thingy with comet support? 13:18:27 yes, rsynnott 13:18:50 as a matter of interest, which client-side libraries were you using? 13:18:53 or your own? 13:18:57 -!- Davse_Bamse [n=davse@4306ds4-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 13:19:07 and did you have a viable solution to the 2-connection problem? 13:19:19 sdsdsd [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:24 i used my own set of wrappers around the $.ajax(..) stuff in jQuery to get the comet bit up and running 13:19:27 *rsynnott* is currently doing comet stuff, albeit through an erlang proxy 13:19:54 yes, i solved to 2 connection problem .. (multiple sub-domains; random ones if needed .. wildcard-based support in dns needed for that bit) 13:20:11 -!- sdsdsd is now known as dto` 13:20:13 ah 13:20:17 -!- grifaton_ [n=peter@78.150.47.32] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:20:59 browsers will allow XMLHttpRequest calls to subdomains of the same domain, then? 13:21:28 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@host150.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:39 yeah, or they regard a.domain.com b.domain.com as different servers or ips (even thought they might not be) .. so that breaks the limit 13:22:08 if you already have a subdomain for your application; myapp.domain.com you can just do: a.myapp.domain.com b.myapp.domain.com by the way .. 13:22:23 ah, cool 13:22:29 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633852.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 13:22:31 kinda dumb, but it works very well 13:22:45 were you using long polling? 13:22:50 yes 13:22:55 ejs2 [n=eugen@94.179.77.190] has joined #lisp 13:23:02 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:24:42 blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:200:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 13:24:47 oh, and lighttpd-1.5.x (i had to use the svn-version....) is the only server with a mod_proxy that actually can handle this proper (if you have many users) by the way .. as it does io-multiplexing on "both sides" of itself: lisp <--io-multiplexing--> lighttpd+mod_proxy <--io-multiplexing--> users 13:25:44 this might have changed though .. maybe nginx has a better mod_proxy now, i don't know 13:27:21 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.146.15] has joined #lisp 13:28:34 I think just about the entire frontend of my app will be served by the erlang bit, anyway, so not a big problem 13:29:01 (application logic is in sbcl instance attached to the erlang bit with thrift) 13:29:09 ok:) 13:30:25 dtangren [n=dtangren@69.176.201.226] has joined #lisp 13:30:48 vanLiempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 13:31:22 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@69.176.201.226] 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[n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:32:55 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:35 milanj [n=milan@212.200.192.188] has joined #lisp 14:35:58 carbocalm [n=user@204.101.159.235] has joined #lisp 14:36:34 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-139.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:37:53 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-31-44.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:56 dto` [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:34 -!- grifaton [n=peter@78.145.95.201] has quit [] 14:52:49 -!- trebor_d` [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:55:03 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-190-38.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:57:16 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a662aa@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-828e7bf7f6f9e951] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 14:58:06 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:59:49 I gotta say that Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp is pretty well written. 15:00:21 -!- Kirklander [n=Kirkland@216.93.247.56] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:00:31 Ragnaroek [i=54a662aa@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-da6d7f0837873137] has joined #lisp 15:02:00 -!- antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has left #lisp 15:02:04 antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:06 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:05:18 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 15:05:54 -!- lonesys [n=user@62.109.46.100] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:06:11 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:13 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 15:06:40 TDT: I've been reading amop, and I'm somewhat impressed 15:11:01 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087AE28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:20 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [] 15:13:29 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.146.15] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:14:23 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.231.126] has joined #lisp 15:15:18 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 15:16:23 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:16:33 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 15:16:59 madnificent: Cool, just googled on that a bit, didn't know about it - maybe once I finish with CLOS I'll grab that one to read. 15:17:21 The CLOS one is going incredibly quick so far, PCL really covered a lot of stuff that makes this reading much easier. 15:18:57 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:19:57 Style question: what's the right thing to do with documentation strings. Do we line break them, or not? 15:20:21 we do 15:21:27 There seems to be some disagreement about this -- I was just reading some code where the convention seemed to be "line breaks only at paragraphs" . I can see arguments for both sides. 15:22:48 While (let ((p 15485863) (r 1)) (time (loop repeat 1000000 do (setq r (* r p)))) (integer-length r)) doesn't finish in minutes (in *slime-repl sbcl* buffer), an exact perl interpretation finishes in 0.7 seconds. Am I missing something obvious? 15:22:53 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:200:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 15:23:22 -!- ASau` [n=user@host28-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 15:23:34 vy: is the code compiled ? 15:24:00 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:24:19 blandest: I tried with a compiled version, but not that much difference. 15:24:50 rpg, i don't know this is the most common style, but this is how Edi documents stuff: http://common-lisp.net/~loliveira/ediware/hunchentoot/server.lisp 15:26:10 rpg, kinda hard to separate code from doc-strings with no color actually .. so maybe M-x browse-url-emacs *paste url* 15:27:07 true 15:27:11 best to open in emacs 15:27:36 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:27:39 lnostdal: Thanks! That was a good example. Seems to mostly agree with my practice (including escaping all parentheses, which I also do). 15:28:23 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:28:39 Follow on question: Am I correct in remembering that there is NO portable way to recover :documentation put on CLOS slot definitions? 15:29:15 vy: perl's compiler is more clever? 15:29:51 pkhuong: do you have example code that uses sse? 15:30:08 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:31:26 roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:59 -!- rullie [n=rullie@129.97.143.62] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:36:15 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 15:36:16 vy: Yeah, tried running the same thing..it's still running, about 10m so far 15:37:02 rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-634e8a2262e51356] has joined #lisp 15:38:11 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E010.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:16 Your code runs for 10 meters? 15:38:26 don't rely on SSC, do the math yourself: (time ((lambda (a b) (ceiling (* b (log (1+ a) 2)))) 15485863 1000000)) => 23884450 15:38:33 Evaluation took: 0.000 seconds of real time 15:38:35 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.170.204] has joined #lisp 15:38:53 dkcl: if you count one meter per minute, then sure :) 15:39:01 Yay! 15:41:52 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.170.204] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:41:52 -!- fnordus [n=dnall@70.71.225.48] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:41:52 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-145-45.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:41:52 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:41:52 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-19-211.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:41:52 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-89-237.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:42:09 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 15:42:22 kreuter`` [n=kreuter@pool-96-252-14-107.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:24 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:42:46 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:43:21 vy, and does perl actualy calculate this ? 15:43:53 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:44:36 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- TDT [n=TDT@dhcp80ff86ad.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- vanLiempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.94.24] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-177-99-140.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- rstandy` [n=rastandy@net-93-144-207-118.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- kreuter` [n=kreuter@pool-96-252-14-107.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- easyE [i=[LtBwvv1@panix3.panix.com] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- prip [n=_prip@host254-129-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- glogic [n=glogic@5ess.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:36 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-245-43.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:44:45 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-190-38.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 15:45:18 glogic [n=glogic@5ess.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:20 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-177-99-140.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:26 don't rely on me either, it's slightly wrong 15:45:46 cods [n=cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:47 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-141-154-245-43.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:58 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 15:46:00 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:13 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-40-78.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:46:29 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-207-118.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 15:46:45 afaik, perl dones not have default support for large numbers 15:47:00 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.170.204] has joined #lisp 15:47:00 fnordus [n=dnall@70.71.225.48] has joined #lisp 15:47:00 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-145-45.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:47:00 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 15:47:00 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-19-211.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:47:00 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-89-237.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:47:03 if you add bignums support it should run for minutes for sure 15:47:25 isn't this the same as (expt p 1000000) or something? .. insanely large number 15:48:03 mvillene1ve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-145-45.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:48:39 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-145-45.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:48:46 -!- mvillene1ve is now known as mvilleneuve 15:50:01 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@194.109.21.3] has quit ["..."] 15:50:07 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:50:44 guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 15:51:01 bohanlon [n=bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 15:51:43 HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 15:52:34 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:46 (lambda (a b) (1+ (floor (* b (log a 2))))) ; should be fixed 15:56:24 vy: can you show your perl code? 15:56:57 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.170.204] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:57:06 stassats`, perl just throw 'inf' 15:57:23 if you 'use bignum' in perl script that is different story 15:57:39 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:57:51 prip [n=_prip@host254-129-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:58:31 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:33 if you have extremely clever compiler, you don't need bignums 15:58:44 -!- legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-19-211.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:59:06 Is there a function in the MOP to find the slot-definition object given a class and a slot name? 15:59:31 I'm finding the description of compute-effective-slot-definition a little opaque... 16:01:15 I guess use find over the return of compute-slots on the class metaobject? 16:03:09 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:30 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 16:04:34 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 16:04:45 chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:01 rpg: Don't you mean `class-slots`? 16:05:12 -!- Grilinctus is now known as Aankhen`` 16:05:14 p0a [n=user@athedsl-385948.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:06:30 Hello I'm reading paip and I'm confused as to why norvig chooses to have additional lambda parameters to localize the state variable instead of using let 16:07:01 cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.94.24] has joined #lisp 16:07:01 Grilinctus: Right. Good point. Looks like class-slots reads a cache that compute-slots is computing. Thanks! 16:07:08 p0a: you mean &aux ? 16:07:11 For example, if (defun f (x) (+ x y)) to add two numbers, it's possible to rewrite it as (defun f (x y) (+ x y)), but you could also use (let ((y val)) (f x)) every time you wanted that 16:07:20 rpg: De rien. :-) 16:07:23 stassats`: no, should I give page/post source? 16:07:48 it seems more elegant to use LET in this instance, much less code 16:08:03 you couldn't do (let ((y val)) (f x)) 16:08:12 assuming y isn't special 16:08:25 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:08:32 And since he's apparently advocating exploratory programming I guess that is the natural option instead of rewriting the functions. 16:08:37 Aankhen``: In dealing with the MOP I've never really figured out how to handle the "this will crash if inheritance is not finalized" issue. 16:08:38 stassats`: what do you mean? 16:09:34 you can't rewrite it as you showed 16:09:41 you are right, it doesn't work. It works only with macros 16:10:02 no, it will work if Y is special variable 16:10:12 rpg: Can't help there unfortunately, I don't have much experience myself (unless reading the references on the subjects counts!). 16:10:49 (defvar y) to declare Y as special 16:11:23 and then it would work? But it also works with macros -- that's clear 16:12:08 -!- dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:12:39 Hmm... it doesn't work with macros then. I'm confused. The first time I had tried this it worked -- I must've been unlucky because the variable I tested it with was one of those you speak of 16:13:18 Well then, why did not Norvig use defvar on *state* and use LET instead of rewriting those functions? I'm asking because I guess there's a caveat in this 16:13:24 paw` [n=user@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:27 _YKY_ [i=YKY@119.237.179.195] has joined #lisp 16:13:34 it does work with macros: (defmacro foo (x) `(+ y ,x)) (let ((y 10)) (foo 5)) 16:13:51 blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:200:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 16:14:01 <_YKY_> How to insert an element into the middle of a list? 16:14:09 but (defun add (x y) (+ x y)) is the only sane method 16:14:14 dwave_ [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has joined #lisp 16:14:23 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:14:52 (push 'a (nthcdr 2 list)) ? 16:15:14 <_YKY_> Thanks!=) 16:16:34 keep in mind that it does that destructively 16:17:33 stassats`: actually, it seems saner to me if a group of functions where every function takes the same parameter (in one of its parameters) with the others in the group, it is sound to have them all do variable capture. 16:17:41 <_YKY_> Error: undefined function (SETF NTHCDR) 16:18:44 uh oh, my lisp does that, my mistake 16:19:01 _YKY_: http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/sec_5-1.html 16:19:12 saikat_ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 16:19:34 ramus` pasted "Use of local variables" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79707 16:19:36 (nthcdr ...) is not a generalized reference, but teh implementation may be extended to support it. If you want to do this destructively you'll have to write the algorithm yourself 16:19:43 hope that's enough information 16:21:38 _YKY_: You could do in destructivly with (concatenate #'list ...) and subseq.. 16:21:40 <_YKY_> I see... 16:22:07 <_YKY_> Maybe I'll just make a new list... 16:22:19 <_YKY_> That sounds complicated 16:22:28 Actually it depends on your task 16:22:32 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087AE28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:41 if efficiency matters and that component is determined to be a bottleneck you should do it destructively 16:22:42 _YKY_: non-destructivly, sorry 16:23:01 <_YKY_> I see.... 16:23:14 <_YKY_> So what's the best way to do it destructively? 16:23:45 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:24:17 follow cdr references until you find the cdr you want to modify, keep the cdr and setf the cdr to (list x) where x is the element you want to insert and use nconc with the cdr you kept 16:24:33 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-19-211.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:25:37 <_YKY_> Thanks! 16:25:48 (setf (cdr (nthcdr 2 list)) (cons 'a (nthcdr 3 list))) ? 16:26:00 -!- white-rabbit-obj [n=cpc5@cpe-67-241-171-153.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:26:41 dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:41 dcrawford_ [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:46 -!- dcrawford_ [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 16:27:16 minion: tell p0a about pcl-book 16:27:26 -!- dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:27:26 hm, no minion? 16:27:36 I know about practical common lisp, why do you suggest it 16:28:11 "and then it would work? But it also works with macros -- that's clear" 16:28:16 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:32 made it seem like working thru pcl would be worth it before diving into paip 16:28:51 I went through PAIP before PCL. PAIP is lovely. 16:28:54 Oh well, because I didn't knew about defvar? 16:29:11 If you are trying to insert and efficiency is enough of an issue to want to do a destructive modification, you should probably consider using a different data structure than a list. 16:29:12 dkcl: I agree it's nicely written. Actually I don't like PCL much. I'd prefer to read clhs to learn the functions 16:29:22 and I'm reading 'on lisp' by graham currently so I don't want to tutorial books 16:29:24 two* 16:29:53 -!- paw` [n=user@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 16:30:08 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:15 legumbre_ [n=user@r190-135-13-232.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:30:21 <_YKY_> rpg: I just want to have a sorted list 16:30:49 Then use PUSH and when you're done use SORT 16:31:15 <_YKY_> But I'm merging 2 sorted lists 16:32:14 clhs merge 16:32:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_merge.htm 16:32:23 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:32:47 ramus` annotated #79707 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79707#1 16:33:02 i meant, (push 'a (cdr (nthcdr 2 list))) 16:33:57 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@94.179.77.190] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:34:21 <_YKY_> Right... MERGE seems to be applicable here 16:34:35 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:34:50 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-19-211.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:35:43 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:36:13 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:28 blitz__ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:200:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 16:36:33 hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 16:36:44 mozinator [n=mozinato@195.241.109.215] has joined #lisp 16:37:11 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-385948.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 16:37:23 -!- dwave_ [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has quit ["Be back later"] 16:37:26 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:37:26 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:38:10 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:40:33 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@116-26.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["dualhead testing"] 16:41:12 -!- hkBst_ is now known as hkBst 16:41:55 alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:43:04 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:43:40 -!- chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:44:26 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a662aa@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-da6d7f0837873137] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 16:45:20 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 16:45:26 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:45:31 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-145-45.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["leaving"] 16:49:19 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 16:52:49 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:07 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:54:04 dabd [n=dabd@mouse.inesc-id.pt] has joined #lisp 16:55:16 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:05 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:59:33 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d83a01.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:01:31 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:43 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:03:19 -!- jao [n=jao@80.24.4.74] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:03:27 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:04:05 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 17:05:48 paw` [n=user@78-69-82-87-no172.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:05:58 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:06:18 dysinger [n=tim@c-24-19-45-181.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:45 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-67e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:07:02 nyef [n=nyef@65-125-125-98.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:10 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:07:23 Hello all. 17:07:34 hello nyef 17:07:34 Greetings. 17:09:20 Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has joined #lisp 17:10:52 -!- Vegan [n=sdfpme@59.39.243.170] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:12:35 Okay, that's build-system damage committed. 17:16:05 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 17:16:35 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-4d3970c448e3801c] has joined #lisp 17:16:45 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:18:08 Rounin [n=david@rounin.409.no] has joined #lisp 17:18:54 *yawn* *stretch* 17:19:01 Hello drewc. 17:19:33 hey nyef 17:23:45 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 17:24:09 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 17:24:10 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 17:26:21 luis`: Here? 17:27:33 -!- Tordek__ [n=tordek@host104.190-137-245.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:27:47 Tordek [n=tordek@host104.190-137-245.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:28:29 rjack pasted "make-isntance, optional parameters and unbound slots" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79711 17:28:39 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:29:06 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 17:29:06 luis`: What's the current status of hyperdoc? 17:29:21 rjack: APPLY 17:30:21 dwave [n=ask@93.99.113.100] has joined #lisp 17:30:26 stassats`: nice, thanks 17:31:55 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:33:09 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:33:16 Shark87 [n=Shark87@host248-236-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:33:18 hi all 17:33:37 hypno [n=hypno@195.43.248.100] has joined #lisp 17:35:01 hi nyef 17:35:49 p_l: Hey. I finally finished up the critical bits of renaming stuff for perry, so I'll probably get a git archive somewhere for it soon. 17:36:26 saikat_ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 17:37:00 super :) 17:38:02 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 17:38:06 mikezor [n=mikael@c-ede270d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:39:29 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:39:32 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:40:00 easyE [i=[lg39458@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:46 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 17:46:39 So, random project idea: the Steel-Bank C Compiler. Has a parser that reads C files and outputs a temporary file of sexprs that the file-compiler can handle. The file-compiler is hacked to be able to deal with C calling conventions directly but still outputs a fasl. Then there's a post-processor that takes a fasl and converts it to an ELF object file. 17:47:21 I doubt I'll ever actually try this. 17:47:26 You'd prefer that over GCC because the existing backends are bad and the optimization code sucks? 17:47:39 nyef: We can always try ripping open the symbolics one... 17:47:49 tic_: If we can get LLVM to cooperate... 17:47:53 tic_: well said. ;p 17:48:03 Tordek__ [n=tordek@host147.190-138-146.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:48:05 what's wrong with GCC? 17:48:07 Now, an LLVM backend for SBCL...*that* would be interesting 17:48:19 foom: SBCL on IA64! :P 17:48:50 p_l: by the time anyone gets around to writing that, the last IA64s will have disappeared from the face of the earth. :P 17:49:08 foom: If we get LLVM backend, it wouldn't be that hard :D 17:49:21 true 17:49:55 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host104.190-137-245.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:50:15 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@115.241.94.24] has quit ["so long.."] 17:50:16 interesting option would be to have SBCL move out of C code at all, having CL code generate apriopriate code through LLVM... :P 17:50:48 C code? 17:50:57 sbcl doesn't generate C... 17:51:13 or do you just mean the C runtime bit? 17:51:16 Or just moving all of the C to assember-routines and carefully-written Lisp functions and have genesis spit out an executable instead of a core file... 17:51:39 how about a dwim button? 17:51:46 how is assembler is better than C? 17:51:55 Because it doesn't need a C compiler! 17:52:06 yeah, and nobody has one of those 17:52:16 SBCL-os doesn't. 17:52:50 well, I guess you can always compile the C to asm on another OS and then pretend it's written in asm. :) 17:52:51 *manic12* thought *he* was manic 17:52:52 :) 17:53:28 Anyway, I think I've done enough build-system hacking for today, really. 17:54:03 I wonder how long a LLVM port would actually take 17:54:16 I can't even estimate such a project. 17:54:44 Are we on LLWM now? 17:54:51 Did you just volunteer? 17:54:56 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 17:54:58 hahaha 17:55:14 W? 17:56:28 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.135.190] has joined #lisp 17:56:29 a tree shaker for sbcl would be nice. ;) 17:57:02 I now think I have the minimum clue necessary to drive a robot arm's servos from sbcl 17:57:09 so that could shake trees 17:57:28 with apples on them 17:57:33 .oO(these aren't your father's killer atomic robots...) 17:57:49 no, that would be the EATR ones 17:58:13 except they aren't atomic, either, but they feed on the flesh of their slain human ex-masters 17:59:14 -!- anton [n=anton@77.106.223.233] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:59:19 foom, LLVM, even. 17:59:40 antifuchs, robotic goa'uld? 18:00:09 tic_: Well, if anyone has any clue even how long such a thing would take to complete, I would find such information interesting. 18:00:44 rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 18:01:17 foom: it depends... basic library binding probably wouldn't take too much time, but then comes a lot of compiler-writing stuff... 18:01:39 like how the hell do we work with LLVM so that nothing breaks 18:02:03 -!- Shark87 [n=Shark87@host248-236-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 18:02:08 right, I mean as a codegen for sbcl's compiler. 18:02:18 start with a week to read up on llvm, and a couple of days to hack up toy or two to get a feel for it. then maybe a week to figure out how to hook it into sbcl. *then* estimate how long that will take :) 18:02:47 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 18:03:01 Don't forget about GC interaction. 18:03:24 nyef: That's what I'm worried 18:03:32 yeah, though i *think* llvm is intended to play nice with gcs 18:03:36 nikodemus: So, did I get the alien result sign-extension stuff right? 18:03:49 i assumed so 18:04:11 ...i didn't try on platforms where it used to break 18:04:15 Fair enough. I only actually tested it on x86 and x86-64. 18:04:18 nikodemus: If you find a way to pass all necessary data to GC about locations... LLVM tends to do aggressive static optimization 18:04:19 did you commit any test cases? 18:04:21 it does seem to have a good story for GC 18:04:21 http://llvm.org/docs/GarbageCollection.html 18:04:26 Yes, there's a test case in the commit. 18:04:39 Only enabled on x86 and x86-64, as it's based on lying to the compiler. 18:04:47 heh 18:05:37 oh, there are instructions to mark GC data in LLVM... 18:06:53 (Really, how else would you test it other than having an alien function that takes a word-sized integer and returns it, and then telling the compiler that it actually returns a smaller integer and seeing that the garbage is dealt with properly.) 18:07:16 we, yes 18:07:19 well, even 18:07:43 This, of course, leads to the worry that the system could get badly confused if anyone actually -did- mis-declare an integer result size. 18:08:01 Good evening. 18:08:03 *if* llvm can be hooked up so that we can write approximately regular instruction definitions and vops for it, and just the codegen needs to be adjusted, then say 1-3 months of full time work. if IR2 needs to be LLVM aware... then maybe 1-2 months of work 18:08:06 And I think that enums might have the wrong size on x86-64. Not sure, though. 18:08:51 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 18:10:07 but because AFAIK it really wants SSA, we need an SSA representation in the compiler. doing IR2 -> SSA might be possible, but SSAifying IR2 would probably be a bigger win -- and probably a couple of months more 18:10:32 I thought SSA was supposed to be introduced in IR1, not IR2? 18:10:56 i think doing it in IR2 might be easier 18:11:30 -!- HET2 [n=diman@iswjestija.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:11:42 LVAR's are tricky 18:12:05 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:12:39 BrandonWilson [n=a@216.71.225.62] has joined #lisp 18:13:23 i'm not sure how to represent them in SSA -- it seems to me that SSAifying IR1 would be a more of a wholesale rewrite of the IR, whereas an SSA transformation for IR2 should look mostly like textbook stuff 18:13:33 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-109.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:14:05 hm. 18:14:42 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 18:14:49 sugarshark [n=ole@p4FDA9306.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:15:22 anyways, assuming that hooking GC in is easy, I'd call LLVM port at maybe 6 months for the initial effort -- how usable the resulting system would be is a different question 18:17:21 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.17] has joined #lisp 18:17:51 I guess another potential issue is support for conditions 18:18:22 uwp, more like 18:18:27 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit ["omghaahhahaohwow"] 18:18:34 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:18:37 but llvm claims support for something like that 18:18:44 Actually, UWP might not be that hard to support. 18:19:09 Since you need all the bits for C++ anyway. 18:19:46 It's just that you can get situations where you aren't allowed to NLX from your UWP. 18:20:13 right...kindasorta..as the interoperate-with-platform-exception-infrastructure discussions covered before. 18:20:14 well, you are generating code for an abstract machine - you can basically do anything you can do on another CPU... 18:20:39 the problem would be "platform exception support", I guess... 18:21:14 I don't know if I should be impressed that SBCL has proper platform exception interop on Win32 or saddened that it doesn't have it on any other platform. 18:21:37 lol 18:22:41 Arguably, Win32 and VMS are probably the -only- two platforms where we don't need to emit stack unwind information for it. 18:23:17 And there's no VMS port of SBCL yet. 18:24:09 nyef: I think Win32 and VMS are the only platforms where ABI isn't defined as "Whatever C compiler comes up with" :P 18:25:45 the ABI for Linux x86 and x86-64 is actually quite precisely defined. 18:25:47 Mmm. And Win32 unwinding isn't actually interoperated with from GCC, apparently. 18:26:07 ARM too. and the rest pretty much follow along I think 18:26:24 foom: I mean outside syscall interface 18:27:10 Windows x64 didn't follow allong, though. Causes any number of problems, but they nailed some things far better than any other platform. 18:27:40 Though I recall that they were adressing this somewhere between GCC 2.95 and 3.x with C++, but afaik, userspace ABI on Linux is basically "whatever compiler comes up with" 18:27:55 p_l: no, it's quite precisely defined 18:28:05 www.x86-64.org/documentation/abi.pdf 18:28:50 foom: I don't recall it specifying more than function calling, but I'll check again. I do remember that even on windows you had hijinks with different ABIs :) 18:30:26 ... ok, what the hell is AVX? 18:30:57 In what context? 18:31:33 nyef: 256bit operations in x86-64 18:31:54 p_l: that's what it is 18:31:57 *nyef* has no idea, but it sounds like it could be interesting. 18:32:05 "advanced vector extensions"? 18:32:14 it lets you do XML accelaration!! according to intel's website last I looked 18:32:48 OK, anyone had seen a CPU with that? 18:33:00 still says that: "Intel® SSE4.2 is a new subset of Intel® SSE4 instructions that was introduced in the 45nm Next Generation Intel® Core i7 processor family (Nehalem). These techniques are used to enhance Intel® XML Software performance through tighter integration with the AVX platform." 18:33:09 p_l: it's in SSE4 18:33:14 or one of the SSE4s 18:33:33 (confusingly, SSE4 is divided in twain, for the convenience of AMD_ 18:33:40 so it seems... 18:33:54 XML acceleration is quite a big deal 18:34:14 *rsynnott* personally thinks a better solution would be to lay off the XML 18:34:22 *hefner* boggles 18:34:35 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0ABD.versanet.de] has quit [No route to host] 18:36:02 benny [n=benny@i577A0ABD.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:36:05 SSE5 will probably just have an instruction for parsing XML and spitting it out in binary format to a piece of memory. :) 18:36:30 -!- dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:37:06 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-69-221.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:37:07 foom: you can get machines which do that 18:37:14 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-60-75.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:19 (there's a standard called binary XML used for the purpose) 18:37:32 the whole enterprise XML scene is a little suicide-inducing 18:37:54 binary-xml isn't a standard yet, unfortunately 18:38:34 foom: Okay, groveled through the ABI and found (as I suspected) that we didn't agree on what kind of ABI are we talking about :D 18:38:37 *rsynnott* eagerly awaits SSE19, which will have instructions for TWITTER 18:38:42 EBML is quite nice 18:38:49 http://www.w3.org/XML/EXI/ 18:39:21 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.140.17] has joined #lisp 18:39:41 but EBML is no W3C nor any other "standards body" compliant, so it won't get chosen for "enterprise" 18:40:24 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:40:38 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 18:41:12 It's funny how main usage of EBML is in fansubbing scene ;D 18:41:37 dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:41:53 if only it were possible to filter the "enterprise" people out of the internet. 18:42:20 hefner: if nanotech doesn't kill us, we might see that... 18:44:04 bzwahr [n=user@bloc-bzwahr-lap.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:46:36 LLVM seems like a cool system. 18:46:38 I'm having issues with cl-sql, specifically with the sql reader syntax (yes, I've run (enable-sql-reader-syntax)). I upgraded sbcl today. Has anyone noticed any issues or been having any similar problems lately? 18:47:20 bzwahr: Whenever you upgrade sbcl, kill your fasls. That might clear things up right off the bat. 18:47:28 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.170.204] has quit ["Induhvidual Quote: Tomorrow at this time... it will be Wednesday."] 18:47:37 it sometimes gets confused if you don;t have disable-sql-reader-syntax at the bottom of files using it, too 18:47:54 seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:48:16 -!- unixluser [i=zd32nv@creep.bur.st] has left #lisp 18:48:17 nyef: you mean just delete them from ~/.fasls? 18:48:42 Might not be necessary if they're stored in per-host-lisp-version directories, I'll admit. 18:49:02 rsynnott: I never had that before and it seemed to work, but I supposed I can try it. I just have one .lisp file I'm using as a newbie test case for tbnl/cl-sql. I call (enable-sql-reader-syntax) at the top. I'll try adding the disable at the bottom. 18:49:08 nyef: we change fasl format for each revision now, so unless there should be no wierd errors from that anymore 18:49:17 -!- rtra [n=user@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:49:21 We do? Neat. 18:49:52 I have several sbcl-1.0.x-gentoo-linux-x86/ directories in ~/.fasls/ 18:50:04 bzwahr: You should be good on that account, then. 18:50:13 nyef: I figured as much 18:50:43 I even re-installed cl-sql and restarted emacs/slime 18:50:53 foom: btw, VMS ABI includes full spec of all formats library functions are allowed to exchange as arguments (in fact, any calls crossing boundaries, including system ones and callbacks from OS) 18:50:59 can't figure out what's changed to cause the sql reader syntax to choke 18:51:23 jao [n=jao@33.Red-81-32-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:41 Did you say already how it chokes? 18:51:48 and what you try exactly? 18:51:52 and how you try to run it? 18:52:07 I can restate 18:52:13 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:17 p_l: that ABI document specifies that, by specifying the layout of structures and such 18:52:52 bzwahr: You should paste via paste.lisp.org 18:52:57 p_l: that together with the structure definitions used by each call's API give you the ABI. 18:53:30 feh, no wonder this does't build 18:53:43 nikodemus: What's the status of hyperdoc? 18:53:48 tcr: will do... what all should be pasted? obviously the .lisp file, but I supposed any errors sbcl gives as well? 18:53:52 i had :ref-trans where it should have been :set-trans... 18:54:00 tcr: standing still 18:54:16 bzwahr: How you're trying to invoke it. and paste the sldb buffer 18:54:18 nikodemus: objdef hacking? 18:54:29 ediware iirc has support for it, but the age-old slime patch i made seemed to generate no interest 18:54:32 foom: VMS went a little further than that, specifying not only how layout of structures should be done, but *which* structures you can pass as anything other than void* and which are allowed for compliant libraries :) So you could easily link code from different languages without ASM magic :) 18:55:16 nikodemus: I'll take it up. I think my employer could make use of it. I'll care for proper slime support, but it'll take a while until that propagates to upstream 18:55:18 nyef: yeah, adding a list of weak pointers as %array-displaced-from so that we can take the performance hit in ADJUST-ARRAY instead of ARRAY-DIMENSION 18:55:44 actually, the .lisp file shouldn't matter since I'm trying to just get it working from slime direct 18:56:00 Ah. Neat. 18:56:05 p_l: I don't really see the difference there, except that it sounds like VMS is a lot less flexible because it specified particular structs instead of a general rule on how to pass structs 18:56:09 tcr: sldb buffer? in emacs? haven't got one if so 18:56:11 tcr: if you think the basic needs changing, let me know 18:56:15 *nyef* actually uses displaced arrays occasionally. 18:56:58 bzwahr: Well just paste whatever you do, and what you're trying to get running. 18:57:06 'cos right now we check if an array is displaced to an displaced array on every ARRAY-DIMENSION call, and then check that the target array has not become too small for us 18:57:56 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6F3FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:56 with weak backpointers we can catch the illegal shrinkage at adjust-array time, instead of at bounds-checking time (which uses ARRAY-DIMENSION, and which cannot be nicely open coded because of that check) 18:58:01 foom: More like it defined the most common data formats. I always laugh recalling how you link Delphi .dll with an application :D 18:58:29 foom: Stuff like strings, lists, etc. 18:58:31 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-129-13.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:58:42 home -> /good night 18:58:47 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181146177.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:59:20 niksleep well 18:59:50 p_l: Ah, okay. Sure, having a standard layout for high-level datastructures can be useful. 19:00:34 It also helps against overflows in string buffers... :P (strings had their length included in datatype) 19:01:10 oh, and system supplied libraries to deal with those types 19:01:22 so, like strlen? :) 19:01:35 -!- jao [n=jao@33.Red-81-32-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:01:38 tcr: http://paste.lisp.org/display/79712 19:02:02 foom: yup, except a little different :D I guess the idea came from the fact that the system itself was written in several different languages :) 19:02:26 bzwahr: What did you do before entering that clsql:select line into the REPL? 19:02:36 foom: so the only thing that kept it together was keeping the API/ABI the same :) 19:03:11 jao [n=jao@127.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:12 etate [n=etate@bb-87-81-97-91.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:05:01 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit ["leaving"] 19:05:33 dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 19:05:58 tcr: reload: anotation #3 is the process, #1 is the start-www.lisp file and #2 is the hello.lisp file 19:06:20 tcr: *reload the paste.lisp.org page I mean 19:08:11 nyef: why not make host-load-stem (stem flags) be host-load-stem (stem &optional flags)? 19:08:44 bzwahr: I guess that should work, but I'm not familiar with clsql. Are you in the package :hello? 19:08:47 mjf [n=mjf@r11gz90.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 19:08:55 slyrus_: Umm... Simpler arg parsing? Does it really gain anything either way? 19:09:02 bzwahr: "that" being your annotations 19:09:41 bzwahr: Oh no, I think I know it. 19:09:44 nyef: no, I just saw nil as the second arg in the cases I glanced at in the patch and thought it make might sense to make it &optional. not a big deal, obviously. 19:10:15 tcr: that's just the package for my .lisp web page file, its not important in this context, as I'm trying to get the clsql:select to work directy from sbcl. it works with a "select * from test" statement, but not with select [*] :from "test" syntax. 19:10:16 The genesis cases? Those are outliers anyway. 19:10:35 oh, ok... 19:10:50 The real uses are from defun-load-or-cload-xcompiler. 19:10:53 bzwahr: LOAD rebinds *READTABLE*, and the ENABLE-SQL-SYNTAX does not modify the readtable object itself, but just assigns a new value to *READTABLE* 19:10:59 bzwahr: you ought to use the lisp overlay which has much more up-to-date CL packages 19:11:20 bzwahr: You have to call clsql:enable-sql-syntax at the repl, too 19:11:24 Now you've got me paranoid. 19:11:28 *nyef* tries a clean build. 19:11:53 tcr: I have done that also. Just tried again now. 19:12:00 Oops. 19:12:26 tcr: doesn't work either, just to be clear 19:14:36 fe[nl]ix: except they renamed cl-asdf and cl-clx to just asdf and clx, which causes blockage problems when some programs want cl-asdf, others (from the overlay) want asdf, and cl-asdf and asdf block each other 19:15:03 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:15:42 nyef: If you have # can the xxxx change on GC? 19:15:51 tcr: Yes. 19:16:02 Uho I thought they were unique! 19:16:07 They are. 19:16:14 Well, sortof. 19:16:25 It's the address of the object on the heap. 19:17:01 and sbcl's gc is copying gc, right? 19:17:04 So since the object can move in GC, the printed representation changes as well. 19:17:22 bzwahr: is "don't use clsql's reader syntax" a valid point here? it's ugly and hacky... use postmodern + postgresql. 19:17:52 drewc: clsql should be hacked to use named-readtables 19:18:26 tcr: No.. why do we need reader macros for sql? it should be hacked to /dev/null! 19:18:44 *drewc* has his own sql syntax that doesn't even use macros, and it quite happy with it. 19:18:59 (select '* :from 'foo :where '(:= foo.bar 1)) 19:18:59 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:19:19 I don't know what's the point of its reader syntax 19:19:22 drewc: I've considered that, and that's my work around for now, though I really like using that syntax. the weird thing is: insert-records works fine, its just the select statements that don't work unless given a straight sql string. as for postgresql, we use mysql where I work, everything I've done is in mysql, and so I stick with it. 19:19:41 the thing is, it worked yesterday, but doesn't work today 19:19:53 bzwahr: you've come far enough to learn a real language, and you now want to continue using a crappy database? 19:20:04 that's fine and all, but really... think about it :) 19:20:23 bzwahr: anyways, use #. 19:20:25 clhs #. 19:20:26 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 19:20:33 Umm... Why isn't my build failing? 19:20:36 the only thing I can think is that in my system upgrade, sbcl was amoung the packages upgraded. however, I dont' see how that would cause issues. 19:20:55 There's a very obvious bug in host-load-stem, and my build isn't failing. 19:20:59 drewc: I'm not here to debate better or worse sql implementations, not to defend one. 19:21:09 -!- jao [n=jao@127.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:21:19 drewc: what do you mean by clhs #? 19:21:33 bzwahr: i mean read the fucking manual for #. 19:21:52 you need to enable the reader syntax at read time. 19:22:04 otherwise, it's read as a symbol, which is unbound. 19:22:21 jao [n=jao@83.36.222.209] has joined #lisp 19:22:37 drewc: done that. like I said, it worked yesterday. and is there really a need for language? 19:23:12 is that not a well used and understood phrase in geekdom? would you have preferred RTFM? :D 19:23:13 bzwahr: well, it's terribly useful 19:23:40 drewc: Some people prefer to believe that the F stands for "Fine". 19:23:55 DO they? 19:24:11 terribly optimisic, from what I've seen of manuals 19:24:19 nyef: i'll keep my opinion on such people to myself ;) 19:24:23 I think it's a form of willfull ignorance. 19:24:33 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit ["leaving"] 19:25:03 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:14 dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 19:25:19 Hrm. I had forgotten what it was like trying to use the Xt Intrinsics. 19:25:23 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:25:38 dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 19:25:52 minion: what does RTFM stand for? 19:26:10 oh oh... 19:26:12 minion: ? 19:26:24 he is not there... 19:27:05 Kicking now. 19:27:06 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:27:06 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:27:26 Ragnaroek [i=54a66008@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c93e6519fd0f6d71] has joined #lisp 19:27:28 nyef: what's the easy way to do that anyway ... just kill the sbcl? 19:27:33 he was mbarassed, no doubt 19:27:51 drewc: Basically, yes. I just attached to the screen and entered (quit) at the REPL. 19:28:14 -!- jao [n=jao@83.36.222.209] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:28:34 nyef: did you log in as lisppaste? i always get read/write errors when i try to su over and do that. 19:28:46 drewc: wow, I completely didn't thing of "read the fucking manual" as RTFM... I use RTFM so much I tend to take for granted what it actually stands for :-P 19:28:53 drewc: Yeah, I did. 19:29:07 nyef: ahh .. i don't have the password lol :) 19:29:22 And I've forgotten it. 19:29:29 bzwahr: it happens :) 19:29:57 bzwahr: i find myself saying "lol" out load sometimes, totally obscuring the meaning and intent of "lol". 19:30:00 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:30:05 out loud* 19:30:08 drewc: my wife does that 19:30:24 jao [n=jao@12.Red-79-156-142.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:48 bzwahr: i think it's a disgusting habit, but like smoking, i have a lot of trouble stopping :D. 19:32:33 Symmetry- [n=thezog@host-static-92-114-165-252.moldtelecom.md] has joined #lisp 19:32:40 -!- jao [n=jao@12.Red-79-156-142.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 19:33:51 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 19:34:11 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:12 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:10 BTW, another meaning for "F" was Friendly, in a tongue-in-cheek way ;-) 19:35:47 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:52 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:15 minion: What does RTFM stand for? 19:37:16 Retardment Thinner Formulization Morsel 19:37:30 yum 19:40:04 p_l: those are all backronyms that i wil have nothing to do with. the F is FUCK... the only time it was changed is when newspapers and magazines started publishing 'netspeak' dictionaries sometime after the eternal september. 19:40:07 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:27 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:40:31 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:04 if the rails guys can use pr0n in their presentations, we're allowed to say 'fuck' in #lisp.. deal? :D 19:41:07 drewc: well, yesterday I found Jargon File in "reference section" in library :D 19:41:19 drewc: Oh, of course we can 19:41:35 p_l: the original, or the bastardised UNIX-y ESR version? 19:42:09 drewc: 3rd edition, so it's quite Unixy, but even reading the current web copy I didn't found too much unix in it... 19:42:57 p_l: before ESR got hold of it, it was very much an MIT document, and was more lisp than unix. 19:43:19 drewc: I know 19:43:32 drewc: Gotta love the Lisp plugin for /usr/games/fortune 19:43:40 i believe it started as part of the model railroad club actually... though my history could be fuzzy there.... 19:43:54 jao [n=jao@65.Red-83-38-59.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:59 dkcl: there is such a thing? wow! 19:44:06 drewc: Yeah! :D 19:44:12 drewc: TMRC 19:44:18 -!- blitz__ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:200:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 19:44:23 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:10f6:200:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 19:46:43 uroboros [n=mjf@r11gz90.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 19:46:55 -!- uroboros [n=mjf@r11gz90.net.upc.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 19:48:46 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:50:23 bzwahr: just remove cl-asdf and the rest of CL packages taken from portage and install them from the overlay. it's pretty easy 19:51:29 topo_ [n=topo@87.223.39.79] has joined #lisp 19:52:06 fe[nl]ix: yes, but then the programs that require cl-asdf complain 19:52:11 moot point anyway, its working now 19:52:26 which package requires cl-asdf ? 19:52:39 after lots of messing around, I rand (restore-sql-reader-syntax-state) and it works now 19:53:38 fe[nl]ix: stumpwm I believe 19:53:50 fe[nl]ix: its been awhile since I messed with the lisp overlay 19:53:59 bzwahr: there's a stumpwm in the overlay too 19:54:56 fe[nl]ix: thought I didn't see one, there may have been other stuff too 19:55:13 -!- dysinger [n=tim@c-24-19-45-181.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 19:55:24 fe[nl]ix: still, its not good practice to change package names, unless they have a really good reason for having done so? 19:56:06 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 19:56:36 bzwahr: using the original names is a good reason, rather than the debian name(prefixing everything with "cl-") 19:58:47 fe[nl]ix: I suppose, though that aside, it'd be nice if a gentoo overlay played nice with gentoo :-P 19:59:59 rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:30 bzwahr: the best advice i can possible give : download a tarball of sbcl and use clbuild to install libraries. 20:00:51 bzwahr: using distro packages is almost always a recipe for tears and sorrow. 20:00:56 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87.194.5.99] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:01:03 drewc: I disagree here 20:01:08 well ike I said, its fixed now 20:01:08 fe[nl]ix: i know. :D 20:01:17 mostly because I maintain the gentoo lisp repo :P 20:01:18 drewc: the gentoo overlay is pretty cool (and I'm saying that as a clbuild maintainer) 20:01:26 funning (restore-sql-reader-syntax-table) fixed it somehow 20:01:35 works well for me 20:01:54 i have never used the gentoo overlay, but fe[nl]ix is not an idiot, so i imagine if gentoo is not too stupid it could work quite well :) 20:02:17 lichtblau: fair enough. 20:02:31 bzwahr: don't listen to me then! 20:02:43 fe[nl]ix: I just added the lisp overlay using layman, and I don't see stumpwm 20:03:21 bzwahr: it's in x11-wm/ 20:03:44 tmh pasted "Dijkstra would not like it." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79719 20:03:51 fe[nl]ix: I did 'emerge --search stump' and the only result is the stumpwm I had before the lisp overlay 20:04:25 bzwahr: look into the overlay directory. it's there 20:04:25 Learning LOOP and was surprised that UPTO 10 includes 10. 20:04:52 -!- seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 20:04:59 tmh: perhaps you wanted BELOW ? 20:05:13 fe[nl]ix: Perhaps 20:05:28 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.140.17] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:06:22 this is one reason why i don't use :upto, prefering :to .. 'numbers from 0 to 10' in my mind, includes 0 and 10. 20:06:47 that said, it's and english language FAIL that loop unfortunatly inherits. 20:06:53 it's an* 20:07:28 drewc: so write a lobjan loop macro :) 20:07:58 fe[nl]ix: thanks. I think I"ll try that. 20:08:01 dlowe: and here i thought i was setting up an argument for recursion over iteration : 20:08:05 :) 20:09:23 -!- topo [n=topo@77.228.136.95] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:10:40 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:10:42 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.135.190] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:11:09 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.6.226.112] has joined #lisp 20:11:16 -!- Rounin [n=david@rounin.409.no] has left #lisp 20:13:02 drewc: I'm a convert to the series interface for looping, if not the actual implementation 20:14:12 fe[nl]ix: i did not realize that the gentoo-lisp-overlay is now available via layman. Last time i did layman -L it wasn't there. Time to retire my manual git clone. 20:15:20 -!- bzwahr [n=user@bloc-bzwahr-lap.tamu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:15:22 sugarshark: innovation! 20:15:31 dlowe: i've been meaning to look hard at series, especially because i use and enjoy continuations so much. 20:16:17 and series was in cltl2, which in my opinion makes it a part of common lisp. 20:17:07 drewc: the things the library has to do to make it work "transparently" are pretty ugly. It would have really been better if it had been integrated from the start as a superclass of sequences. 20:17:28 like shadowing LET and DEFUN 20:17:53 drewc: good idea for cltl3 20:18:02 fe[nl]ix: indeed. 20:18:37 -!- alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:19:04 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-190-38.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:19:33 -!- jao [n=jao@65.Red-83-38-59.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:20:13 I don't see how you can do this, but I find it an idiotic limitation. So here goes: if I take the constructor of an object, is there a way to call the 'superclass' constructor with different arguments? 20:21:54 what is constructor? 20:22:05 madnificent: what do you mean by "taking the constructor"? 20:22:15 jao [n=jao@45.Red-81-32-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:17 initialize-instance 20:22:36 I want to do the same as call-next-method, but I'd like to give it different arguments 20:23:08 -!- Tordek__ [n=tordek@host147.190-138-146.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:23:09 madnificent: you can pass any arguments you like to call-next-method 20:23:15 wow 20:23:23 I didn't see that in amop :$ 20:23:24 thanks 20:23:29 Tordek [n=tordek@host15.190-138-147.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:23:41 fe[nl]ix: You can? I thought there were requirements for congruence? 20:24:53 nyef: in this case, that is good enough (the requirements for congruence are fair in this case) 20:24:57 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:25:06 Numlock [n=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 20:25:13 and yes, that's probably needed, as you need to build the order of methods again otherwise 20:28:12 bzwahr [n=user@bloc-bzwahr-lap.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:28:47 fe[nl]ix: ok, I'm having issues with the lisp overlay 20:29:02 bzwahr: what issues ? 20:30:12 Tordek__ [n=tordek@host160.190-138-169.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:30:17 fe[nl]ix: slime wants cl-asdf and common-lisp-controller... and common-lisp-controller is also needed by gentoo-init, cl-who, cl-sql, cl-md5, and more 20:30:25 and cl-asdf and asdf block each other 20:31:02 tmh: notice that (null (loop for i = 10 upto 5 collect i)) while (equal (loop for i from 10 downto 5 collect i) (10 9 8 7 6 5)) 20:32:08 bzwahr: remove slime too: emerge -Cav $(qfile -C /usr/share/common-lisp/ | cut -d " " -f 1 | egrep '^dev-lisp') 20:32:12 fe[nl]ix: I also dont' see common-lisp-controller in the lisp overlay 20:32:18 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:20 and "for i from 10 by -1" doesn't work as well 20:32:36 bzwahr: the overlay does not use common-lisp-controller but asdf-binary-locations 20:32:37 bzwahr: c-l-c is dead, long live asdf-binary-locations 20:33:07 so remove slime and install it from the lisp overlay? 20:33:10 yes 20:33:23 it must be the same version then because it doesn't pick up in an emerge update 20:34:16 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:34:25 bzwahr: you have "source /usr/portage/local/layman/make.conf" in your /etc/make.conf? 20:34:42 however, emerge -avu lsime seems to want to move it from portage to the overlay 20:34:44 and upgrade it 20:34:51 it just didnt' show up in a "world" update 20:34:52 werid 20:35:07 scratch that 20:35:12 it did show up in the world update 20:35:13 Tordek___ [n=tordek@host72.190-227-36.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:35:18 it just choked 20:36:59 cl-sql requires c-l-c 20:37:19 bzwahr: try dev-lisp/clsql 20:38:26 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-220-145.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:24 ok, I just need to write these all down, uninstall them, adn isntall the lisp overlay version 20:39:25 :-P 20:39:43 impomatic [n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:39:52 or is that what the bash command you typed earlier does? 20:40:13 -!- impomatic [n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has left #lisp 20:40:38 bzwahr: that command uninstalls all CL packages that installed files to /usr/share/common-lisp/ 20:40:48 ah 20:41:07 may not want to do that then, I"d rather see what's breaking and fix it 20:42:01 Jabberwockey [n=jens@p54BB032C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:42:20 bzwahr: you can't mix CL packages from portage with packages from the overlay 20:42:43 fe[nl]ix: ah ok 20:43:32 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:09 fe[nl]ix: I don't see cl-tbnl or tbnl is the lisp overlay 20:45:22 not in dev-lisp/ at least 20:45:30 bzwahr: tbnl was renamed to hunchentoot long ago 20:45:55 -!- jao [n=jao@45.Red-81-32-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:46:33 fe[nl]ix: that explains a lot... I'm new to it and the documentation I was finding was sometimes tbnl sometimes hunchentoot 20:46:37 I thought it was two different things 20:47:29 bzwahr: tbnl means "To Be Named Later" 20:47:32 and later, it was named "Hunchentoot" :) 20:47:38 *headdesk* 20:48:34 bzwahr: being a lisper is a much an exercise in archaeology and history as it is programming.. you get used to it :D 20:48:35 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:40 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host15.190-138-147.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:49:13 jewel__ [n=jewel@dsl-242-158-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:49:39 dlowe: does it only need to shadow defun so it can parse the declarations properly, or is there something more that i'm missing here? 20:49:54 dlowe: 'it' being series, of course. 20:51:10 drewc: it does a bunch of code-walking to find optimizable series expressions 20:51:32 -!- Tordek__ [n=tordek@host160.190-138-169.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:51:46 "I think probably we in the LOOP camp were insufficiently sympathetic to the merits of Waters's approach (series), possibly because we were not experienced with lexical scoping" -- dlw 20:51:56 -!- Modius [n=Modius@69.150.58.107] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:52:29 drewc: where did you find that quote ? 20:53:05 http://www.paulgraham.com/loop.html 20:53:25 fe[nl]ix: lots of unmasking to do 20:53:54 bzwahr: better unmask the entire dev-lisp/ category 20:54:20 I'm curious to know what LOOP could do better than series, since I haven't actually found anything 20:54:59 fe[nl]ix: is there one line that does it, or jsut add everthign as dev-lisp/whatever 20:55:15 Okay, I've definately remembered why I don't like Xt/Xaw. 20:55:26 Mhm? 20:55:54 drewc, that quote seems to lack its end 20:55:56 Trying to figure out how to get this geometry right is a pain. 20:56:03 drewc: " I think probably we in the LOOP camp were insufficiently sympathetic to the merits of Waters's approach, possibly because we were not experienced with lexical scoping, although also because there really were a few things that it didn't do as well as LOOP." -- dlw 20:56:10 dlowe: indeed, i was being selective there. 20:56:31 bzwahr: I think that dev-lisp/* should work 20:56:44 fe[nl]ix: interesting 20:57:15 in context: http://people.csail.mit.edu/gregs/ll1-discuss-archive-html/msg02107.html 20:58:48 fe[nl]ix: Are there any other overlays into which I should look? 21:00:12 bzwahr: not for CL, but you might be interested in the emacs overlay 21:00:17 *dlowe* wonders how hard it would be to cram a series optimizer into sbcl. 21:00:45 fe[nl]ix: I'll look into it... and yes, I was looking for things other than cl. 21:01:33 Morg0th [n=nico@ip-80-236-216-237.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #lisp 21:01:35 dlowe: Probably be a good way to learn your way around the compiler if you don't know the basics already. 21:02:19 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:03:15 -!- carbocalm [n=user@204.101.159.235] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:04:26 I'm very new to LISP, can you tell me which compiler I should use to create executables from source code files? I tried sbcl but I can't find how to create an executable with it. I also found GCL but I don't know if I should install it, it makes 171Mo, while GCC only makes 65,5Ko, it is strange... 21:04:36 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-190-38.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:04:43 Tordek [n=tordek@host135.190-138-173.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:04:59 -!- Tordek___ [n=tordek@host72.190-227-36.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:05:10 minion: executables? 21:05:11 executables: creating executables: Newcomers to Lisp often ask how to "create an executable" from their Lisp program. http://www.cliki.net/creating%20executables 21:05:59 minion: thanks 21:05:59 no problem 21:06:08 Morg0th: you should use clisp, and (ext:saveinitmem "pgm.exe" :executable t :init-function (function main)) 21:06:16 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6F3FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 21:06:54 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-70.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 21:07:25 where do I have to put this? (ext:saveinitmem "pgm.exe" :executable t :init-function (function main)) I'm on linux by the way 21:07:38 Morg0th: you put that in the REPL. 21:08:51 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a66008@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c93e6519fd0f6d71] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:11:24 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-70.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:12:14 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:33 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:12:40 ejs [n=eugen@214-195-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:15 Morg0th: for small projects, you may write a file loader.lisp, in which you write (load (compile-file "source1.lisp"))... to load the program, and finish with the saveinitmem form. Then you can compile and generate the executable with: clisp -x '(load "loader.lisp")' -x '(ext:quit)' 21:13:34 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:14:15 fe[nl]ix: looks like I've got everything switched to the overlay versions... however, I had cl-kmrcl installed before... I see its renamed kmrcl, but nothing has required it so its like I don't need it any more. do you know what that package is/does? 21:15:40 pjb: ok I see, thanks 21:16:01 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-129-13.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:16:08 Morg0th: then for bigger projects, you'll learn how to use ADSF and write .asd files. 21:16:11 bzwahr: kmrcl was kmr's utility package IIRC 21:16:38 bzwahr: i imagine that clsql might use it, though i wouldn't know for sure. 21:16:41 -!- tessier [n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com] has left #lisp 21:16:54 what is kmr? 21:17:01 clsql doesn't not use it 21:17:11 cl-sql might have used it though 21:19:54 -!- gtchma_ [n=user@bootsy.cc.gatech.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:19:56 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:20:44 jsnell: what did you want to know about find-foo-using-package? 21:21:17 bzwahr: not what, who: http://www.cliki.net/Kevin%20Rosenberg 21:21:19 bzwahr: kmr is the author of clsql. 21:22:00 ah interesting 21:22:43 davazp` [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:55 jao [n=jao@138.Red-79-156-140.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:21 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-152-109.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:24:14 dysinger [n=tim@64.40.56.45] has joined #lisp 21:25:56 -!- ejs [n=eugen@214-195-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:26:44 -!- bzwahr [n=user@bloc-bzwahr-lap.tamu.edu] has left #lisp 21:27:11 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:41 -!- jewel__ [n=jewel@dsl-242-158-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:28:37 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 21:28:45 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.17] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:29:00 Hun [n=Hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:34:42 -!- davazp 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23:45:06 -!- davazp` [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:45:13 rvirding [n=rvirding@h59n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:37 i2unn3r [n=I2unn3r@83.167.116.243] has joined #lisp 23:46:44 hi! is there lisp implementation for plan9? 23:46:58 i2unn3r: http://www.google.com/ 23:47:07 no common lisp, only scheme 23:47:41 hey, plan9 is stil alive? 23:47:49 milaz: And kicking! 23:48:17 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r11gz90.net.upc.cz] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:48:32 *milaz* goes to read about plan9 23:48:52 dkcl: what's new in the last year? 23:49:20 -!- XGas_ [n=XGas@123-243-19-237.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [" "] 23:49:26 i2unn3r: you could try to port ecl or clisp to plan9. 23:49:41 stassats`: I've no idea. A member of our usergroup did a presentation on it, but I couldn't go there. Everyone else loved it, though! 23:50:14 pjb: Actually, I hadn't thought of that. 23:51:39 can plan9 run java? If so it might run abcl 23:51:55 i don't think it can 23:52:03 dkcl: calm down your rtfm-mood, i'm just asking if somebody knows of sensible implementation 23:52:42 i2unn3r: I spent most of my IRC day in #OpenBSD. It's no wonder. 23:52:43 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:52:49 I guess this was stfg more than rtfm though :)) 23:52:59 It was GIYF. 23:53:19 s/spent/spend 23:53:32 i doubt that it can coz it's descendant Inferno has another VM which at least WAS Java's rival 23:54:14 You can run Java on MS Windows. 23:54:22 And you can probably run Mono on Solaris. 23:54:23 slava [n=slava@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:25 ppc b 23:54:25 Branch: http://www.nersc.gov/vendor_docs/ibm/asm/b.htm#idx298 23:54:29 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 23:55:00 jao [n=jao@189.Red-79-155-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:12 ppc bl 23:58:12 Branch and Link: http://www.nersc.gov/vendor_docs/ibm/asm/b.htm#idx299