00:00:08 -!- TheLoop [n=user@78.33.52.101] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:03:57 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:06:42 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@74.125.59.1] has quit [] 00:07:08 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:48 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442133.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:07:59 droogi [n=user@88.238.203.107] has joined #lisp 00:11:26 -!- Yuuhi` [i=benni@p5483A6BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:11:42 -!- droogi [n=user@88.238.203.107] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:12:17 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:12:24 droogie [n=user@88.238.203.107] has joined #lisp 00:14:08 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 00:19:20 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-246.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 00:19:56 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:20:35 ghrr, http://www.sys-con.com/node/934716, IETF has no shame... 00:20:42 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 00:21:29 deepfire: ehaha, you're right :) 00:27:25 deepfire: i wonder if there is a patent of name lisp. in fact there shouldn't be a need of patent for not doing this since i don't think i would name it microzoft if i were to invented a dishwasher 00:28:44 -!- droogie [n=user@88.238.203.107] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:29:21 You mean 'trademark', right? 00:29:28 You can't patent a name, as far as I know. 00:35:21 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:36:30 -!- roark_ [n=roark@admin163-55.hampshire.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:39:20 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:06 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-72-21.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 00:41:08 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:44:39 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:45:31 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:48:29 dkcl: is there a legal limit on the length of a name? 00:49:37 *dkcl* doesn't know. 00:51:52 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-195-154.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:51:55 What would be the smallest pattented algorithm? Your name could be a transcription of it. 00:52:36 Heh. 00:53:02 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-72-226-143-253.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:53:53 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Client Quit] 00:54:27 hrr4_ [n=hrr4@p5081B9BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:55:23 Well, it's too late to patent a quine, though they can be rather small in some implementation languages. 00:56:44 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 01:01:19 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:01:20 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:50 saikat [n=saikat@67.180.9.222] has joined #lisp 01:10:46 fUD [n=bbills@apnnew9.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:36 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@2002:8d4c:3001:48:216:d3ff:feb0:58e0] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:16:43 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 01:18:30 mogunus [n=user@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 01:18:40 -!- hrr4 [n=hrr4@p5081B80C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 01:21:06 atlchma [n=user@adsl-19-101-109.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:17 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.141.254] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:26:34 -!- saikat [n=saikat@67.180.9.222] has quit [] 01:32:50 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-13.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 01:33:05 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 01:36:50 -!- mrsolo__ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-dbecf46108b36ed8] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:37:42 ,quine 01:40:08 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:00 -!- vande [n=sdfpme@116.4.100.145] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:47:08 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.27] has joined #lisp 01:48:04 -!- nyef [n=nyef@24.220.182.229] has quit ["G'night all."] 01:51:31 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:52 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 01:55:04 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:55:18 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 01:56:20 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:58:08 droogie [n=user@88.238.43.26] has joined #lisp 01:58:16 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250003.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:59:22 thom_logn [n=thom@173.51.224.238] has joined #lisp 02:01:04 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:02:06 how does one read streams? 02:03:42 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 02:06:03 clhs read 02:06:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_rd.htm 02:06:06 clhs read-byte 02:06:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_by.htm 02:06:09 clhs read-char 02:06:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_cha.htm 02:06:12 clhs read-line 02:06:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_lin.htm 02:06:22 -!- danlei [n=user@pD954F25C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:31 sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has joined #lisp 02:08:52 any way to get cl-irc to try additional encodings other than the default utf8 and latin1? 02:11:55 sellout [n=greg@24.128.50.176] has joined #lisp 02:11:56 -!- mogunus [n=user@173.9.7.10] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:12:47 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 02:15:32 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:15:46 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:53 legumbre` [n=user@r190-135-0-181.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 02:20:21 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:22:16 GrayMagiker [n=steve@97-123-189-76.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:17 sohum: I think the encodings are stored in a list that it tries in order 02:23:35 but note that it'll take the first one that doesn't generate encoding errors 02:23:51 so maybe the ones with possibly-invalid code sequences should go first, like utf-8 02:24:57 antifuchs: right, cl-irc:*default-incoming-external-formats* 02:25:20 setting that gives me an error that it's not external, which makes me think there's some other way to specify that 02:25:21 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44bf96.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:27:41 ah 02:27:59 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@66.199.252.10] has joined #lisp 02:27:59 02:27:59 -!- names: ccl-logbot GrayMagiker sphex legumbre` aja ace4016 ikki sellout sohum saikat thom_logn droogie fisxoj kpreid bombshelter13_ atlchma fUD manic12 ia hrr4_ Adamant mtd hugod guaqua tarbo r0bby koollman matimago- zbigniew albino rsynnott thijso p_l mrsolo smolyn konr rullie a-s` dkcl nvoorhies brandelune Xof_ kidd1 X-Scale joga oudeis dreish zbrown HET2 Modius_ mattrepl lispm rpg wchogg Jasko sbahra elurin slyrus TimDalySr rootzlevel Phoodus Nshag 02:27:59 -!- names: mejja wlr Rigdern ASau michaelw bdowning dto BrianRice tltstc existentialmonk ChopperDave _dima Featureanini ineiros jeremiah Quadrescence legumbre tttsssttt prip cods topo stassats xinming_ AntiSpamMeta joast dostoyevsky dmiles_afk mikezor cavelife^ rlpowell jlf phadthai luis dfox ilitirit l_a_m deech billstclair vy aunwork leo2007 dcrawford tmh TDT Fufie bohanlon yango s0ber z0d poet sphex_ kami- sykopomp daniel beach ianmcorvidae holycow 02:27:59 -!- names: cracki madnificent Hun benny frank_s_ dys abeaumont m4thias`` elias` younder Adrinael dysinger_ xan-afk eno boyscared Taggnostr cipher jmbr akcom rread srcerer kleppari_ specbot minion lisppaste pok Patzy dv_ jrockway foom lnostdal ryepup hyperboreean sohail awayekos trebor_dki KingNato bittin` CrazyEddy mgr mathrick cmm doxtor araujo yahooooo Tordek kreuter ztzg oso`perezoso spacebat metasyntax UnwashedMeme sad0ur binarin eirik grc alexbobp 02:27:59 -!- names: DrForr rumbleca Dazhbog qebab stepnem ironChicken pkhuong pjb Soulmann Ginei_Morioka fnordus ``Erik koning_robot scode lichtblau proq Baughn jsnell t ecraven housel herbieB peddie guenthr deepfire tcoppi maxote Wombat1 clog myrkraverk Cel antifuchs easch galdor bkudria froog glogic Bucciarati Dave2 Khisanth chii bascule wgl jkantz djinni` moesenle spiaggia kuwabara felixc authentic kuhzoo Guest1661 johs Riastradh fgtech Aisling Fade rlonstein 02:27:59 -!- names: vsync felipe rotty cYmen bfein djkthx Zhivago Martinp23 azuk pragma_ egn nullman sjbach mornfall nicktastic p8m rodge frontier1 jyujin_ vcgomes drewc froydnj enn robewald_ blast_hardcheese ampleyfly tic_ nasloc__ lemoinem _3b xristos krappie 02:28:04 I don't know if it's intended to be external or not 02:28:13 but I believe it's the only way to set that 02:28:17 A1ex4Qub1t [n=jianxin@137.222.234.190] has joined #lisp 02:28:44 I must bid you good night now; good luck getting this to work 02:28:47 -!- A1ex4Qub1t [n=jianxin@137.222.234.190] has left #lisp 02:29:08 good night 02:29:23 hm. it still doesn't actually work 02:29:41 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-8-40.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:59 it throws a FLEXI-STREAMS:EXTERNAL-FORMAT-ENCODING-ERROR: Unexpected value #xAC at start of UTF-8 sequence. 02:30:05 even though the backtrace has 6: (CL-IRC::TRY-DECODE-LINE #(58 77 97 114 99 117 ...) ((:UTF-8 :EOL-STYLE :CRLF) (:LATIN1 :EOL-STYLE :CRLF) (:ISO-8859-1 :EOL-STYLE :CRLF))) 02:31:19 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@173.51.224.238] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:32:05 danlei [n=user@217.84.242.206] has joined #lisp 02:33:07 -!- rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151332.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:33:10 oh, waitasec, latin1 == iso-8859-1 02:33:12 -!- TimDalySr [n=daly@dynamic-acs-72-23-19-139.zoominternet.net] has quit [] 02:33:58 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-55-227.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:35:02 I have a line that reads (funcall function args). The sbcl compiler tells me that it's unable to optimize because of a possible call to fdefinition at runtime. 02:35:20 I assume that means that it thinks I might do (funcall (fdefinition foo) args), which definitely won't happen. 02:35:28 is there a declaration I can use for something like this? 02:37:42 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:39:27 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-13.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 02:40:00 azanar [n=edcarrel@67-134-197-171.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:12 ...I guess (the function function) did the trick. 02:40:14 heh 02:41:27 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.1.19/2008110600]"] 02:45:56 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-6c6aaf29f4a2f30b] has joined #lisp 02:46:07 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-6c6aaf29f4a2f30b] has left #lisp 02:47:19 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-216-59.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:50:35 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 02:56:23 -!- smolyn [n=smolyn@76.77.66.100] has quit [] 02:57:39 WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has joined #lisp 02:58:05 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:12 evening 02:58:16 morning 02:58:40 heh 02:59:23 ok, I have a test case 02:59:46 (cl-irc::try-decode-line #(172 13 10) '((:UTF-8 :EOL-STYLE :CRLF) (:LATIN1 :EOL-STYLE :CRLF))) fails with an error, but (cl-irc::try-decode-line #(172 13 10) '((:LATIN1 :EOL-STYLE :CRLF))) succeeds 03:00:24 (don't think I need pastebin for a couple of lines, but tell me if you want it there) 03:01:20 -!- legumbre` [n=user@r190-135-0-181.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:02:09 -!- Ginei_Morioka [n=irssi_lo@78.114.165.52] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:02:16 Ginei_Morioka [n=irssi_lo@78.112.56.72] has joined #lisp 03:03:50 Hello, I'm having trouble with my ecl install. How can I remove my old ecl and install my custom built one? 03:06:15 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-181.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:09:37 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 03:10:33 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-8-40.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:43 c|mell [n=cmell@y192017.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 03:10:58 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-8-40.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:12:17 WarWeasle: what OS and how did you install it? 03:13:06 hm. the first line works on my other machine, though. the only (that I can think of) difference is that the nonworking machine as flexi-streams 1.0.7 and the working machine has flexi-streams 0.14.0 03:13:06 Ubuntu reinstalled it when I reinstalled all the packages (I deleted something I shouldn't have) 03:13:22 vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has joined #lisp 03:13:50 cads [n=max@76.122.89.218] has joined #lisp 03:14:07 WarWeasle: use whatever apt-get command one uses to remove packages on debian systems. you might prefer to build it from source yourself 03:14:11 some time ago i found an old corman interface to autocad, named clarx i think, is there a project like this to other implementations, like sbcl? 03:15:08 fusss: I've tried apt-get purge, remove, clean, autoclean and autoremove. Something is where swank can't find package CLC. 03:16:22 WarWeasle: try installing it anew and removing it again. most linux package managers also have a FILE_LIST file of sorts, which has the path to every file brought into your system by the package; rm -rf them. 03:16:45 I'll try it. 03:17:39 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:18:16 <_3b> try purging slime and installing by hand 03:21:26 _3b: Ok, I'm trying it. 03:22:01 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:27:59 -!- sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has left #lisp 03:28:05 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has joined #lisp 03:31:07 justeco [i=tim@66.39.162.178] has joined #lisp 03:32:02 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-144-151.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:32:23 _3b: I removed, purged and cleaned ecl and slime and I still found libecl in my /usr/libs and /usr/local! 03:33:16 There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come. 03:33:17 - Victor Hugo 03:33:17 Yes, even if it's a bad idea. 03:33:17 - jmc 03:33:25 the man is clever :D 03:33:34 brb 03:33:39 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:34:43 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@y192017.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:35:04 WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has joined #lisp 03:35:10 That worked! 03:35:10 -!- vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:44:26 smolyn [n=smolyn@S01060016cbc4b572.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:11 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:54:05 vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has joined #lisp 03:56:47 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-205-8.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:12 -!- azanar [n=edcarrel@67-134-197-171.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [] 03:57:40 -!- droogie [n=user@88.238.43.26] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:59:22 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.27] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:59:31 azanar [n=edcarrel@67-134-197-171.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:56 thom_ [n=thom@pool-173-51-224-238.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:37 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@98.220.168.14] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:20:07 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-16.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 04:20:28 p0a [n=user@athedsl-379506.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 04:20:36 Hello, I have written this macro 04:20:36 p0a, memo from beach: (format t "~a~1:*~a" "hello") 04:20:53 Thanks :-) 04:21:02 greek ? 04:21:06 nai 04:21:20 wraia 04:21:42 if you want to talk greek to me let's do it in PM and not here, because others don't understand 04:22:34 regardless, I've written this macro, (defmacro f (x) (let ((x (circular-list (list x)))) (dolist (x x) (format t "~R~%" (incf x))))), whith (circular-list lst) returning a copy of lst in circular list form 04:23:00 use lisp-paste 04:23:05 I expect (f 0) to write "one" "two" "three" et cetera, but the count is not incremented. 04:23:17 easier to receive anotations too 04:23:21 chavo_ [n=user@66.41.11.10] has joined #lisp 04:23:34 You're right, I'll paste the code 04:25:01 -!- BrianRice [n=water@98.225.51.246] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:25:14 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:07 http://paste.lisp.org/display/79382 04:28:13 I normally wouldn't use a let, but I thought just in case dolist actually re-evaluates the second expression on each iteration, which would explain why I don't see incrementation in the counter 04:28:49 -!- chavo_ [n=user@66.41.11.10] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:29:32 p0a: It's not obvious to me why you are using a macro. 04:30:34 apart from that 04:30:49 (incf x) will always give one 04:30:55 since x is always 0 04:31:38 tmh: for no reason, this is just an experiment I'm not trying to write this to make use of it 04:31:38 there is rebinding going on for every item in list 04:31:58 ah - so it's not a reference 04:32:10 -!- binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:32:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/79382#1 04:33:48 That's cheating though -- it increments a counter on each iteration 04:33:54 I knew this could be done with a closure 04:35:04 Good morning. 04:35:26 what are you trying to accomplish 04:35:40 you make a circular list of 1 element then iterate over it 04:35:42 maybe recurse 04:36:44 -!- Rigdern [n=Rigdern@meowth-42.dynamic.rpi.edu] has quit [] 04:38:49 saikat_ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 04:42:10 Nah I figured it out, they're copies -- bindings, not references. I just realized (setf (car lst) val) works because SETF takes a look at the source 04:43:09 setf is special 04:47:12 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 04:47:18 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-254.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:47:39 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-254.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 04:53:17 p0a: you can disassemble any (setf place) function just like any other function. if you map that to a key chord you will learn the cost of assignment pretty fast :-) 04:54:05 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:54:07 see the "Miscalenous" chapter in CLtL2 to get an idea of how generalized assignment + CLOS stuff was added to CL. makes for interesting reading. 04:54:44 rullie [n=rullie@70.26.165.36] has joined #lisp 04:55:04 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:56:56 -!- p0a [n=user@athedsl-379506.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 04:57:19 i used to find the cltl2 annotations annoying and distracting, but now i learned lisp better they're indispensable. compare, for example, the thought that went into the debugging functions, to make sure they're useful AND portable, to the little thought that went into javascript. 04:58:24 thats one of the reasons that CL is so attractive 04:58:25 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:59:46 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 05:00:10 it's the amalgamation of conflicting interests, and the best ideas had to win. compare that to the inbreeding of thought in one-man languages that have a devout following. they undergo little criticism. "committee design" assumes complacency and incompetence; CL was designed by a committee of adversarial hackers. Big difference, imo. 05:01:15 there were other factors too i think 05:01:21 -!- azanar [n=edcarrel@67-134-197-171.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [] 05:01:40 the fact that lisp was used for extremely complex systems 05:02:03 you get vendors & programmers with this kind of experience 05:02:38 -!- vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has quit ["leaving"] 05:02:45 of course, not everyone got everything they wanted, whence the Fusss' First Rule of Lisp fragmentation: Everyone who didn't have a seat in X3J13 is out to put his pet features in Lisp without consensus, also everyone who was there and didn't get everything he wanted ;-) 05:02:49 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 05:04:05 heh 05:04:21 its not like they have any other option left 05:06:15 also notice some of the stuff that were proposed that didn't see much real-world use were almost added to the language, just on their own sheer usefulness; sure, they weren't added, but became semi-standardized as extensions; the MOP, series, generators and gatherers, gray streams, cltl environments 05:08:04 mib_chw4ljmy [i=438339ea@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9b65bdaf0323a6da] has joined #lisp 05:10:52 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:13:56 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:17:23 roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:11 fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:40 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-216-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:15 -!- dto [n=user@98.118.1.212] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:21 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-205-8.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:29:37 sbcl: does it run on winXP with +unicode and +thread, so that cl-selenium (drakma, cxml, flexi-streams, more ediware) ? Is there a binary ? 05:33:21 fph: there are binaries for win32 laying around, but it's still not fully working (I'm not sure if threads work). CCL might be a better choice at the moment (the main problem seems to be 32bit CCL not working on win64) 05:34:11 do you think unicode is part of ccl? I haven't kept up with it 05:35:23 Well, on my linux build there is :OPENMCL-UNICODE-STRINGS in *features*, I guess it should be there also for windows :D 05:35:51 seems like I have some experimenting to do then 05:36:01 fph: As usual. 05:36:14 when, one can hope every once in awhile 05:36:19 well 05:40:28 azanar [n=edcarrel@dsl231-050-036.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:39 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-254.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:40:58 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-133-254.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 05:41:47 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:42:55 rme [n=rme@70.104.98.143] has joined #lisp 05:43:17 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:05 fph: ccl uses unicode on all platforms 05:45:10 :-) 05:56:34 rme how is the work on the ide going 05:57:40 vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has joined #lisp 05:58:24 xristos: I got to start hacking on it again last week. There should be some visible progress again soon. 05:58:26 -!- mib_chw4ljmy [i=438339ea@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9b65bdaf0323a6da] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 05:58:53 hi xristos 05:58:59 -!- l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 05:59:32 hey manic 06:00:14 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-216-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:00:49 ok, time to go for the train 06:00:50 afk 06:05:29 xan-afk_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:09:47 djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:15:43 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:16:22 -!- xan-afk [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:19:13 aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has joined #lisp 06:23:50 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 06:29:40 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:34:23 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 06:35:41 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 06:37:43 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-150-109.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 06:41:48 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-181.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:47:56 -!- azanar [n=edcarrel@dsl231-050-036.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [] 06:49:39 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 06:50:24 l_a_m [n=nlamirau@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 06:52:47 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:56:04 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has joined #lisp 06:56:09 splittist [n=dmurray@146-85.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:56:12 morning 06:56:20 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:56:41 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 07:05:30 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:05:53 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 07:05:58 morning 07:06:35 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:06:49 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:38 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:08:22 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 07:08:45 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-13.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 07:14:19 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:14:58 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-90.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:15:54 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 07:15:55 -!- GrayMagiker [n=steve@97-123-189-76.albq.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:19:36 mega1 [n=mega@53d8354e.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:22:28 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:26:26 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.68.107] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:27:31 dwave [n=ask@212251243172.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 07:32:08 -!- rme [n=rme@70.104.98.143] has quit [] 07:33:35 dto [n=user@98.118.1.212] has joined #lisp 07:33:53 -!- dwave [n=ask@212251243172.customer.cdi.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 07:35:09 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 07:35:21 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [] 07:35:51 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:38:00 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:40:56 Good morning. 07:40:58 dwave [n=ask@212251243172.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 07:42:48 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-10-217.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 07:43:56 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:44:05 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:45:14 stassats: here? 07:46:37 morning spiaggia 07:46:57 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 07:47:43 -!- X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has left #lisp 07:53:55 spiaggia: Video? 07:54:51 Quadrescence: No video! 08:01:59 Ok, people please don't update Slime CVS today. 08:03:30 addled [n=adlirc@209.20.68.236] has joined #lisp 08:03:32 Krystof [n=csr21@84.51.132.95] has joined #lisp 08:03:36 -!- addled [n=adlirc@209.20.68.236] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:03:50 -!- dwave [n=ask@212251243172.customer.cdi.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 08:03:59 addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 08:05:16 tcr: broken? 08:06:29 infinite loop during fontification 08:07:36 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 08:08:08 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 08:09:01 tcr: tyring to get comments and/or #+ and #- to fontify consistently? 08:11:15 Right, I did that yesterday. Worked on around a dozen files I tested it with. But now it loops infinitely on some CCL source file. 08:14:36 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 08:15:10 jdz_ [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:16:23 -!- cads [n=max@76.122.89.218] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:17:28 azanar [n=edcarrel@dsl231-050-036.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:20 rolly1975 [n=rory@193.108.73.27] has joined #lisp 08:23:25 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-0d01173df42a21ce] has joined #lisp 08:27:38 -!- xan-afk_ is now known as xan 08:29:58 dwave_ [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 08:30:01 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:30:51 what are pubring.pgp in the sbcl sources and maintainer public keys at http://www.sbcl.org/keys.html actuall used for? 08:31:17 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:32:41 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has left #lisp 08:32:51 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has joined #lisp 08:33:27 tombom [i=tombom@82.31.44.7] has joined #lisp 08:36:15 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-0d01173df42a21ce] has left #lisp 08:37:11 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:37:24 younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 08:38:16 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-13.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 08:38:22 hi, I have specialized slot-missing for a metaclass so that a slot is added to a class whenever it is set. Now I want to create the accessors dynamically as well, but I am not sure where to start. Is there something similar to slot-missing that I can override? 08:38:45 -!- fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has quit [" "] 08:40:32 see here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/79389 08:40:52 Or is that a bad idea in general? 08:41:43 how would an accessor know which class it belongs to? 08:42:16 the class of its first argument ? 08:42:32 but it doesn't exist yet 08:42:46 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:42:56 the "missing" function/method name, itself ... i just woke up, maybe i'm missing something too .. :) 08:43:26 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 08:44:36 there is a no applicable method condition. 08:44:42 with a restart on undefined function, using the first arg to identify the class, creating the accessor, and restarting ? 08:44:44 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84.51.132.95] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:44:46 -!- aja [n=aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Client Quit] 08:45:19 easyE [i=[LtBwvv1@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 08:46:59 Yes, that is something I had in mind. But I have to put the restart on the stack of the caller, which I would like to avoid (that would mean I have to change upstreams code) 08:47:47 If I am not mistaken that is... 08:49:35 hugod_ [n=hugod@76.69.169.188] has joined #lisp 08:52:42 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-150-109.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 08:53:21 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:53:45 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 08:54:25 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 08:56:47 -!- saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has quit [Client Quit] 08:57:05 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442133.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:58:07 HG` [n=wells@91.108.74.20] has joined #lisp 09:00:53 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 09:01:30 -!- roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 09:01:49 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-183-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:03:30 ohyah .. that might work .. create an :around method perhaps? .. check (class-of (class-of instance)), i think, to confirm that it has the right metaclass 09:03:57 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.68.107] has joined #lisp 09:18:31 -!- rumbleca [n=rumble@174.0.46.123] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:18:37 rumbleca [n=rumble@S01060014bf54b5eb.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:59 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:27:00 nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:31:49 -!- fnordus [n=dnall@70.71.225.48] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:33:17 fnordus [n=dnall@70.71.225.48] has joined #lisp 09:35:42 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A22C5.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:36:49 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 09:38:36 one question 09:38:42 is it a good idea to have nested dolist? 09:39:30 topo: if you have multidimentional data, why not. 09:40:16 i dont have multidimensional data, im trying to create 3d structures 09:40:29 and 3D is not multidimentional perhaps? 09:40:35 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 09:40:59 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177146004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leaving..."] 09:41:08 ummm 09:41:18 yes 09:41:44 So naturally you may have three embedded dolist. 09:41:46 -!- matimago- is now known as matimago 09:43:05 ummm 09:43:06 topo: notice that if there's some regularity (eg you actually have a tensor), then you may use multidimentional arrays, and use DOTIMES instead. 09:43:09 dys` [n=andreas@p5B3153A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:06 addled [n=adlirc@209.20.68.236] has joined #lisp 09:46:25 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@146-85.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46:57 topo: when you are processing data, the program structure will often match the data structure. If you have a list, you dolist. If you have a list of list, you will have (dolist ... (dolist ...)). If you have a structure, you will have a sequential processing (of the fields). If you have a tree, you will have a recursive processing of the children. If you have discriminated data (either data of one kind or of the other) then you 09:46:57 will have a IF (or a COND or CASE or method dispatch if there are more than two kinds), etc. 09:47:50 matimago look this 09:47:55 http://www.hypermilk.net/estructuras.html 09:48:08 im creating structures just iterating simple 3d elements 09:48:21 -!- addled [n=adlirc@209.20.68.236] has left #lisp 09:48:36 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@217.194.205.196] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:48:46 the thing is that i want to apply a diferent color to each sphere iterated , thats why im using dolist, to read a txt file with colors and then apply the color to each iterated sphere 09:48:49 addled [n=adlirc@209.20.68.236] has joined #lisp 09:49:02 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B314936.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:49:18 the thing is i want to create nested iterationg to create more complex shapes with dolist 09:49:22 i can do easily with dotimes 09:51:00 check this is the code im using: 09:51:01 http://paste.lisp.org/display/79392 09:51:06 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 09:51:31 how can i create nested structures with dolist? 09:53:14 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-4992.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 09:55:52 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d8354e.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:56:49 topo: A structure of type NAME is created with make-NAME. 09:57:30 what do you mean? 09:57:35 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:56 Perhaps we don't mean the same by "structure". In CL it's a kind of object whose type is defined by DEFSTRUCT. 09:59:37 i dont mean that kind of structure 09:59:40 i mean 3d shapes 10:00:17 Then why didn't you say "shape"? 10:00:22 NM ;-) 10:00:34 dunno 10:00:44 Then you would have to define what it means for shapes to be "nested". 10:01:03 did you check the pics? 10:01:03 http://www.hypermilk.net/estructuras.html 10:01:08 If you are just painting (even in 3D), it's essentially a sequential process: you draw something, then something else. 10:01:15 in the second pic i have 2 nested dotimes 10:01:26 and i create that shape with that 10:01:43 i need to do the same but with dolist 10:02:05 What happens when you reach the end of the list? 10:02:29 nothing 10:03:07 wanna see the code? 10:03:42 topo: usually, embedded loops use different index variables, so you can use them all inside. 10:03:42 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-181.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:04:05 Here you are hidding the loop variable I from the outer loop by another one in the inner loop. 10:04:07 (dotimes (i 43) (gl:rotate 222 77 -81 1) (dotimes (i 53) (gl:translate 0.3 2 1) (gl:rotate 22 77 8 1) (GLUT:SOLID-SPHERE 3d0 13 3))) 10:04:31 yes that: how can you translate the same with dolist? 10:04:56 :P 10:04:58 (dolist (i (iota 43)) (gl:rotate 222 77 -81 1) (dolist (i (iota 53)) (gl:translate 0.3 2 1) (gl:rotate 22 77 8 1) (GLUT:SOLID-SPHERE 3d0 13 3))) 10:05:11 umm 10:05:23 mega1 [n=mega@3e70d6ab.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:05:30 i? 10:05:32 I notice also that you don't use I inside the loops so you could just write: 10:05:35 should i be a list? 10:05:48 (loop repeat 43 do (gl:rotate 222 77 -81 1) (loop repeat 53 do (gl:translate 0.3 2 1) (gl:rotate 22 77 8 1) (GLUT:SOLID-SPHERE 3d0 13 3))) 10:05:59 I would be an element of the list returned by (iota 43) 10:06:24 Anyways, I've got to go. I'll be back in 2 hours. 10:06:26 what does iota does? 10:06:33 oh thanks for the help, im gonna tr 10:06:35 try 10:14:10 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 10:14:21 hello 10:19:29 oudeis [n=oudeis@62.219.152.214] has joined #lisp 10:19:48 foo1 [n=prabu@122.165.28.253] has joined #lisp 10:20:33 - is there any actively maintained web-framework for common lisp??? 10:20:52 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:20:53 foo1: weblocks and ucw 10:21:09 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 10:21:34 ucw ? is it still active ? no links works in their docs/tutorial pages 10:22:03 yango_ [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 10:23:05 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:23:06 yango__ [n=yango@212.170.49.208] has joined #lisp 10:23:33 -!- yango__ [n=yango@212.170.49.208] has quit [Client Quit] 10:26:22 -!- Xof_ is now known as Xof 10:26:41 foo1: yes it's still active 10:29:22 cracki [n=cracki@43-142.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:29:43 dialtone [n=dialtone@208-78-102-169.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:03 Dodek [n=user@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 10:33:09 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has joined #lisp 10:33:46 fe[nl]ix: does it support paging and other stuffs required for web programming. 10:33:57 paging ?? 10:34:09 what do you mean by that ? 10:34:19 borism [n=boris@195-50-201-172-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 10:34:52 -!- grc [n=user@217.33.170.226] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:35:02 fenlix: displaying list of records with page numbers 10:35:17 -!- yango_ [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit ["leaving"] 10:35:28 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 10:36:16 foo1: you can ask the #ucw channel for more updated docs 10:36:18 splittist [n=dmurray@146-85.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 10:36:34 ok 10:36:37 foo1: in the source repository there is updated documentation 10:36:50 foo1: also there is the #ucw channel 10:37:29 foo1: for weblocks, take a look here: http://weblocks.viridian-project.de/ 10:37:34 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-35c8e8128bf70708] has joined #lisp 10:38:08 which is better, any opinion in the community... 10:38:36 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-35c8e8128bf70708] has left #lisp 10:40:02 foo1: and here for an example with "paging": http://weblocks.viridian-project.de/weblocks-demo 10:41:18 foo1: from my experience, the weblocks google group and #ucw guys (especially drewc) are really nice and willing to help 10:42:15 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:42:18 foo1: weblocks is younger than ucw but very nice out of the box 10:42:44 ok 10:43:00 foo1: ucw is nice also but I've no experience with it except the "Ucw Hello World video by Marco Baringer" 10:46:41 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 10:47:38 topo: iota is the name of a function that generates a sequence of integers from 0 to n-1. (defun iota (n) (loop for i below n collect i)) 10:47:53 oh its not a real function 10:48:04 Yes, it's a real function. 10:48:15 All functions are real. 10:48:20 ummmm 10:48:30 As much real as any other mathematical being. 10:49:32 ok 10:49:53 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D13B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:24 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:52:34 in clsql, can you add constraints to the :db-info plist of :db-kind :join slots? such as a WHERE clause 10:56:14 http://clsql.b9.com/manual/def-view-class.html seems to indicate that you can't 10:57:10 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""Nichts mehr.""] 10:57:49 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@208-78-102-169.slicehost.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:58:08 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@62.219.152.214] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:58:22 how can i have random numbers with the same feed? 10:58:30 the same sequence of random numbers? 10:59:03 ? 10:59:11 the same seed 10:59:13 *seed 10:59:58 oh you want to reseed random with the same seed again? 11:01:02 i wan t to have the same sequence of random numbers 11:01:09 I think you want to look at MAKE-RANDOM-STATE 11:01:17 and feed that state to RANDOM 11:01:31 -!- HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:02:21 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 11:02:43 im calling this inside a loop: 11:02:44 (gl:rotate (random 212) 110 110 0) 11:02:54 i need that the random are the same 11:03:02 ok... 11:03:23 -!- elurin [n=user@88.254.109.142] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:03:25 elurin [n=user@88.254.109.142] has joined #lisp 11:03:51 Why use random though? But other than that something like (let ((rs (make-random-state nil))) (gl:rotate (random 212 rs) 110 110 0)) why not? 11:04:11 though I guess it will break if *RANDOM-STATE* changes somewhere else in the loop, but you get the idea :) 11:04:57 make-random-state is a common lisp function? 11:05:02 yes 11:05:11 ok im gonna check it out 11:05:12 thanks 11:05:36 minion: clhs make-random-state 11:05:38 you speak nonsense 11:05:40 hmm. 11:05:46 specbot: clhs make-random-state 11:05:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_rnd.htm 11:05:49 oh yeah that's it. 11:06:06 -!- aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has quit ["KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/"] 11:06:31 oudeis [n=oudeis@85-250-200-180.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 11:09:04 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 11:09:13 younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 11:09:49 -!- atlchma [n=user@adsl-19-101-109.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 11:09:54 loxs [n=loxs@fw1.netmania-it.com] has joined #lisp 11:10:45 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:11:16 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 11:12:41 -!- sellout [n=greg@24.128.50.176] has quit [] 11:13:26 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:13:28 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:13:28 younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 11:14:35 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 11:17:26 lispm [n=joswig@e177146004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:20:31 -!- cracki [n=cracki@43-142.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:24:45 'worked perfect 11:24:50 horray 11:26:29 pinterface [n=pixel@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:03 How can I get a string representation of a PATHNAME object? 11:28:31 E.g. #P"/path/to/foo" 11:28:42 specbot: namestring 11:28:44 to get *that* string, use prin1-to-string 11:28:53 to get what's in the quotes, use namestring 11:29:06 clhs namestring 11:29:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_namest.htm 11:29:21 *pinterface* smacks self for forgetting how specbot worked. 11:29:27 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:29:42 tip: it's specbot, not clhsbot 11:30:10 pinterface: kpreid: Thanks. 11:32:09 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 11:33:25 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-181.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 11:36:49 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 11:37:27 -!- loxs [n=loxs@fw1.netmania-it.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:37:42 Xof: does it make sense to add clisp/xcl to the list of supported host compilers now? 11:39:44 I was hoping to hear of success reports 11:39:51 benny [n=benny@i577A0C3A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:40:07 we already know that clisp 2.47 doesn't work 11:41:58 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483FB7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:11 from where do we know it? 11:44:27 from Stas Boukarev's report on the mailing list 11:44:47 frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has joined #lisp 11:44:49 -!- foo1 [n=prabu@122.165.28.253] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:45:41 ajcc [n=adrian@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:48:54 Personally I need a cource in international relations.. 11:49:41 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [] 11:50:06 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:10 *pinterface* grumbles something unintelligible about xml libraries. 11:51:25 sorry blaspheous slob, or was it slobodan.blazeski 11:51:49 tomask [n=user@62.109.46.100] has joined #lisp 11:52:34 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:04 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:42 Whatever your code is fine, you need to work on your self confidence.. 11:57:07 pinterface: which one are you using? 11:57:36 (cxml is a very sane one; if you're not using it, you should give it a try... if you are using it, the author hangs around here (-:) 11:57:45 Xof: do you know what pubring.pgp is used for in the sources? 11:59:04 I too can recomend CXML 11:59:37 antifuchs: None at the moment. Was looking through the rather long lot of them trying to find one with a particular feature, but it looks like none of them have what I want. 11:59:51 which feature do you need? 12:00:32 elurin` [n=user@88.254.109.142] has joined #lisp 12:00:50 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-81-1.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:00:59 mega1: I think to check signatures for binaries 12:01:43 Basically, I want it to ask, in some manner, what the value of entity references should be. 12:01:57 -!- elurin [n=user@88.254.109.142] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:02:30 Used it for years, never let me down, and now with the new extensions like relax-ng, 12:02:53 (Without my having to set them all up beforehand, so they can be possibly expensive db lookups, etc.) 12:03:52 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:03:54 pinterface: according to the cxml changelog, it supports user-defined entity resolvers. does that sound like what you need? 12:04:07 -!- frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:04:15 I lack actual experience in xml processing at this depth, but it sounds similar to what you asked for 12:04:42 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:26 frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has joined #lisp 12:05:29 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 12:06:32 -!- kleppari_ [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:07:02 CXML has a DOM interface 12:07:03 *pinterface* digs around in cxml trying to remember why entity-resolvers didn't work. 12:07:06 entity in XML lingo basically refers to an XML fragment. A file, basically. So file_to_include.xml would be an entity. You declare that entity in the DTD using , then later refer to it using the &foo; entity reference. 12:07:34 What cxml can do: If you have those entity declarations, you can pull out the actual entity from a database instead of a file. 12:08:05 What it cannot do at this point: Let you refer to &foo123; where 123 is an ID in the database, without a definition for foo123 in the DTD. 12:08:05 good to know. also, that's sweet. 12:08:27 It is better to define XML formats in relax-ng 12:08:38 lichtblau: Exactly. 12:08:41 look it up on the web 12:08:49 -!- frank_s_ [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:08:59 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-161-203.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:09:14 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-82-81-161-203.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:29 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 12:10:19 I could just use regular elements like normal people, though, instead of entities. Not sure why I'm so intent on doing things the tools don't do. 12:10:26 younder: no, the particular DTD feature being talked about here is not something that schemas provide. You need concepts like XInclude to do it without DTDs. 12:10:37 younder: get your facts straight 12:11:13 -!- vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has quit ["leaving"] 12:11:17 sorry, I am talking about a rewrite 12:11:44 pinterface: I always wanted to replace cxml's DTD structure with a document CLOS thing. I suppose you could then implement DTD lookup using a generic function on the DTD object. Haven't implemented that though. 12:12:13 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:12:31 seriously DTD leaves a lot to be sesired' 12:12:42 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-4992.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:12:51 s/document CLOS thing/documented CLOS class/ 12:13:23 s/sesired/desired/ 12:14:07 if we are doing SED 12:14:08 cracki [n=cracki@134.61.43.142] has joined #lisp 12:14:26 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 12:15:15 lichtblau: cxml's internals scare me. :) 12:15:57 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 12:17:02 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:31 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-181.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:18:38 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-0-181.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:19:14 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:21:14 gtchma [n=user@bootsy.cc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 12:22:33 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 12:24:27 -!- topo [n=topo@77.228.136.95] has quit [] 12:25:02 *lichtblau* tries to avoid any comments regarding fear of internals leading to a dark side and all 12:25:06 vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has joined #lisp 12:25:34 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:36 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-135-90.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:25:40 cxml isn't so bad.. It's a friendly dog 12:25:46 -!- hrr4_ [n=hrr4@p5081B9BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["leaving"] 12:26:23 It can be you friend 12:28:12 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has joined #lisp 12:28:51 Xof: only WHN is in the pubring. Looking at the sourceforge download page it seems that everyone signs the file containing the md5 sums with his own key and pubring.pgp is not used at all. 12:29:11 -!- frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:29:24 maga1: use clbuild 12:29:35 I didn't realize pupring.pgp even was there, I was figuring people were supposed to use the web of trust 12:30:30 delete it 12:30:36 idiot 12:30:42 plus a lot of binary tarballs don't even have md5 sums 12:31:06 The internal machinations of s-xml are easier for me to follow. cxml is all runes and xstreams and zstreams. :P 12:32:07 seriously, why take this inconsistency. 12:32:37 They will replace them with appropriate entries 12:33:09 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:33:42 You might want to email them first... 12:34:04 the trouble with pubring in cvs is that it goes stale, it should be ok for a new dev to build 1.0 binary for some platform 12:34:45 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:35:18 when have we ever cared about releases older than a month? :-) 12:35:20 the maintainer key page on the website is conveniently not tied to sbcl versions 12:35:51 jsnell: Who's the idiot now... 12:40:57 pinterface: yes. zstreams are there for a reason. But I think at some point runes and xstreams should go away, to be replaced with libraries like babel. 12:41:08 projections [n=p@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 12:42:06 As they would if you had used clbuild in the first place 12:42:18 -!- hugod_ [n=hugod@76.69.169.188] has quit [] 12:42:19 Until someone implements babel-streams (or iolib supersedes that idea), xstreams are a much better solution than flexi-streams though. 12:42:27 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 12:42:27 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:42:45 younder: I think it's time for you to leave again. 12:43:08 lichtblau: in what way better ? 12:43:20 lichtblau: check out franz.com bivalent streams 12:43:25 bye 12:43:36 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 12:43:43 phew 12:43:55 signing md5 sums is strange 12:44:21 fe[nl]ix: I should have said "faster" rather than "better" perhaps. babel is pretty fast, definitely faster than flexi-streams. 12:44:42 And cxml is already slow enough, so it should rather move in the direction of efficiency rather than the direction of library reuse for reuse's sake. 12:44:48 so to contribute a binary, I make it downloadable, sign it with gpg and wait for a friendly project admin to upload it? 12:44:59 you might be able to upload it yourself, too 12:45:28 which is good, because the less I have to fight with the Web Interface of Doom, the better 12:46:10 says the not-so-brave project admin 12:46:32 I hoped I have no access ... 12:46:35 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 12:46:36 lichtblau: What's missing from the current babel-streams? 12:46:46 -!- gtchma is now known as gtchma_ 12:46:56 frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has joined #lisp 12:47:19 Doom has a web interface now? What will those silly hackers think of next 12:48:39 there's actually a babel-streams? I thought that was only an unimplemented idea by luis. 12:49:12 I see a babel-streams.asd in babel's darcs repo, and a src/streams.lisp. 12:49:15 looking at it though, it provides the memory streams from flexi-streams. I was thinking more of a comprehensive replacement for cl:stream to access files. From a cursory look at the file, I think it doesn't do that yet. 12:49:28 I think you're right. 12:50:04 that would be sweet 12:51:15 oudeis_ [n=oudeis@bzq-219-152-214.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:34 mega1: AIO can only be used with mmap-able FDs and notifies I/O completion 12:51:42 mega1: OTOH epoll notifies I/O readiness and AFAIK only works effectively with sockets, pipes and FIFOs while regular files are considered to be always readable and writable 12:52:07 mega1: I've tried to integrate them into the same event loop in iolib and gave up 12:52:08 not easy 12:52:19 fe[nl]ix: I gave up on AIO 12:53:13 also, AIO, as implemented on Linux, AFAIK uses signals and might not be safe to use with SBCL 12:53:26 younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 12:53:28 -!- vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:53:33 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-234-19.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 12:54:09 fe[nl]ix: does epoll work on char/block devices? 12:54:22 haven't tried that 12:54:27 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-25-169.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:54:45 regular files being always readable/writable sounds fine to me 12:55:11 vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has joined #lisp 12:55:59 it's not that good 12:57:46 why? 12:57:47 I'd like a file to appear as readable only if the kernel has it (partially) cached starting from the file position associated to that file descriptor 12:58:09 why is that? 12:58:26 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:26 so that read() would not block waiting for the kernel to spin the disk and seek to the file's position 12:58:27 well, the semantics are that an fd is readable if you can read from it without blocking 12:58:35 dlowe: exactly 12:58:44 one could argue that having to read from the disk constitutes a blocking operation 12:58:50 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@85-250-200-180.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [No route to host] 13:00:09 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 13:00:28 if that were implemented you'd need another mechanism to tell the kernel that you are interested in that file position 13:01:18 could could argue open and lseek would imply interest 13:02:20 might make a nice patch 13:02:42 I see little point in this as read()/write() can block regardless of what select()/epoll() told you. 13:03:08 One basically has to set a timer anyway. 13:03:30 It's not a promise, just makes async I/O a tiny bit faster 13:04:02 mega1: there's posix_fadvise, but I'm not sure that it really works on Linux 13:04:21 (not async but non-blocking I/O, right?) 13:04:59 mega1: if you're worried about disk read latencies, you're probably doing async I/O 13:05:13 or at least trying to 13:05:31 mega1: will they really block in a situation other than that a different process has a clone of the same file descriptor and already accessed it in the meantime? 13:05:39 fe[nl]ix: my man page says it works 13:05:58 cpape [n=user@host16084.pik-potsdam.de] has joined #lisp 13:06:08 dlowe: and mine says "The advice is not binding" 13:06:40 the kernel cannot honour all advices in general 13:06:42 fe[nl]ix: That's the posix specification, not the kernel implementation 13:06:54 ok 13:07:09 lichtblau: reading /dev/tty will consume the input regardless of the fd used 13:07:58 there is a race between unrelated processes, processes sharing fds, threads in same process 13:08:15 (and signal handlers in sbcl's case :-)) 13:08:29 I see, the tty might be an important use case. I was only thinking about sockets and that sort of thing, where sharing feels like a very theoretical use case only. 13:08:56 that's about the only thing serve-event supports right now 13:09:32 What do other people do? Say, java.nio? 13:09:33 I'll have a long write-up in the making about fd-streams/serve-event and the available options. 13:11:29 lichtblau: I haven't looked into it, yet. 13:13:08 Is it possible to specify multiple EQL specializers for a single parameter in a specialized lambda list? IIRC, there should be some trick with `OR' stuff. 13:13:12 lichtblau: NIO uses select(or epoll) and only works with regular files, pipes and sockets 13:14:07 so it actually trusts select() saying ready-for-read? 13:14:37 ignas_ [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:14:44 can't a named pipe have multiple readers? 13:15:15 HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 13:15:15 or an anonymous one for that matter. 13:16:03 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:16:23 it probably does not trust select. one should always check for EWOULDBLOCK even if select says it's readable 13:17:04 sure, select/poll/epoll is just so you waste less time checking 13:17:05 vy: no, there isn't any tricks 13:17:57 mega1: if the pipe has multiple readers there's not much you can do. AFAIK there is not posix way to "lock" a file descriptor 13:17:58 mm. I have a JMP L4; L4: JMP ... Shouldn't these be optimised away during IR2 conversion? 13:18:10 fe[nl]ix: you don't get EWOULDBLOCK if it's a blocking fd 13:19:04 and you can't fcntl an fd to be nonblocking without possibly screw other process. 13:19:06 mega1: NIO only works with nonblocking FDs 13:19:10 chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:23 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:19:23 (Just for the record, it's from the link you sent me) 13:19:32 ISTR that's clearly stated somewhere in the NIO docs 13:20:03 -!- projections [n=p@88.235.101.2] has quit [] 13:20:23 aha, that's quite a limitation 13:20:48 I'd like something that works for all fds regardless of where they come from. 13:21:21 mega1: I seem to understand that you get that case only when one of the FDs is either shared between processes or is a clone of the other 13:21:28 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 13:21:42 fe[nl]ix: /dev/tty, again? 13:21:51 (does not apply to NIO, I know) 13:22:01 such as in the case of TTYs, but not if two distinct processes independently open the same file 13:22:19 let me reread it 13:23:29 it speaks of a "file description" which is shared among file descriptors dup()'d from the same FD 13:23:36 this is how I understand it 13:26:12 fe[nl]ix: open(2) says: A call to open() creates a new open file description, an entry in the system-wide table of open files. 13:26:48 c|mell [n=cmell@y192020.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:27:26 mega1: exactly. so two open() calls create two different file description, but if you do only one open() and use dup2(), those share the same file description even across different processes 13:27:43 *those FDs 13:28:02 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 13:28:19 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-216-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:47 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [Client Quit] 13:29:15 Yes. However, it is still possible to run into shared fds, for instance, set up by the shell that invokes sbcl. 13:32:04 -!- cracki [n=cracki@134.61.43.142] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 13:32:24 mega1: anyway, from its docs I got the idea that NIO is not suppose to be used with external FDs which weren't created by instantiating a NIO class 13:32:41 I see no way of instantiating a NIO channel from an existing FD 13:34:19 I see. That may work for NIO. But I'd like serve-event to work without saying "Please don't do I/O to/from standard streams or any other stream that may have an fd that's shared." 13:36:07 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 13:36:11 Good afternoon. 13:36:26 hello plage 13:37:18 -!- chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:38:08 z-axis [n=sergk@93.190.178.245] has joined #lisp 13:38:09 There is nothing to keep us from relying on O_NONBLOCK when it's provably correct: say it's a socket open by the current process. 13:39:18 In all the other cases it's the repeating timer that can save us blocking indefinitely. 13:39:41 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-81-1.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:40:03 Performance won't be too good, but the process won't hang if an fd-handler logs to stdout that happens to be a pipe. 13:42:16 Java has the luxury of having threads on all platforms, so it can always fire one up to do I/O to non-NIO streams. 13:43:23 pkhuong: presumably there are other JMP L4s around? 13:43:35 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-81-1.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:43:51 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:18 Xof: no. Looks like loop alignment noise. 13:45:22 suboptimal at that, since L4 is already aligned to 16 bytes. 13:45:36 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 13:47:24 pkhuong: loop alignment only adds nops 13:49:37 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:49:39 L4 is the head of the loop that jumps to the condition. I'm not sure why it's not eliminated. 13:50:14 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit ["leaving"] 13:50:27 dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 13:51:51 can you paste it? 13:53:00 mooto [n=chatzill@221.234.213.211] has joined #lisp 13:53:45 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177146004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:54:22 sepult_ [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-73-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:54:24 chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:55 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-25-169.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:57:11 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:21 pkhuong pasted "Useless JMP" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79403 13:58:11 -!- ajcc [n=adrian@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has quit ["leaving"] 14:00:25 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181130009.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:00:41 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 14:00:49 I think the core of the problem is that the loops are too irregularly nested. If you remove any of the return/return-from, the problem goes away. 14:01:49 pkhuong: can you email the code that gives you JMP L4; L4? 14:02:32 (good evening) 14:03:11 nikodemus: there's some code between JMP L4 and L4, but the point is that the only way to get to L4 is via another JMP. 14:03:36 oh 14:03:42 i'd still like to see the code, though 14:03:56 lisppaste: 79403 14:04:02 ta! 14:04:28 argh, minion handles that too. 14:05:10 i don't see the issue 14:05:20 Look at L0. 14:05:31 oh, duh 14:05:35 JMP L0 could be JMP L2 14:08:45 -!- TDT [n=user@191.16.63.69.dyn.southslope.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:08:49 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-150-109.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:09:05 TDT [n=user@191.16.63.69.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:14 -!- sepult_ [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-73-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:09:24 right. i don't think Python actually does systematic code straigtening 14:09:31 straightening, even 14:09:46 in IR2 14:09:51 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-216-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:10:12 but now -> food, bbl 14:10:13 right, it does something like that in IR1, but there's probably a dummy loop head here because the loop isn't regular enough. 14:10:22 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-73-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:11:03 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:11:17 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:11:59 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 14:16:25 -!- chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:16:28 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:16:53 legumbre` [n=user@r190-135-45-15.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:22:00 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-146.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:23:28 Rigdern [n=Rigdern@m2-f1-06.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 14:23:28 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 14:25:05 heh, Rob MacLachlan's Python paper landed in some other-Python bibliography compilation: ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/python.ps.gz 14:25:16 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:25:57 "A Bibliography of Publications about the Python Scripting and Programming Language" 14:27:56 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 14:28:08 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has joined #lisp 14:28:17 Maclachlan was a very prescient man 14:28:38 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl422.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 14:28:50 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.128.20.10] has joined #lisp 14:29:26 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6C0E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:56 -!- frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.115.144] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:31:56 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit 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[i=8f5df915@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3535325f21128e86] has joined #lisp 14:51:49 -!- elias` [n=me@resnet-nat-082.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:52:05 -!- vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:52:29 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1279406049.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:54:09 -!- HG` [n=wells@91.108.74.20] has quit [Client Quit] 14:55:22 -!- Ragnaroek [i=8f5df915@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3535325f21128e86] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:58:06 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 14:58:07 -!- addled [n=adlirc@209.20.68.236] has left #lisp 14:59:06 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 14:59:13 vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has joined #lisp 15:02:11 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 15:04:10 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:04:51 -!- mogunus [n=user@173.9.7.10] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:05:33 topo [n=topo@77.228.136.95] has joined #lisp 15:05:58 -!- rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1279406049.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:06:32 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1279406049.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:08:42 blandest1 [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 15:09:11 -!- tomask [n=user@62.109.46.100] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:10:00 hi , is there perlin noise in common lisp? 15:10:24 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:10:50 addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 15:11:13 topo: No. 15:11:23 no? 15:11:32 why not? 15:11:39 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:12:08 topo: http://www.nongnu.org/grt/ 15:12:08 Why would there be such functions built into the base language? 15:13:04 can i use that library with opengl? 15:13:11 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:13:31 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 15:16:55 bobbysmith0071 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 15:17:34 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:18:37 topo: yes and no 15:19:18 it is not really designed to be used with opengl, but there is no reason you could not just use eg. the perlin noise function from there 15:19:22 why yes an why no? 15:19:46 maybe its faster if i make my own function 15:19:52 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.128.20.10] has quit [Success] 15:19:59 perlins is just random with interpolation isnt it? 15:20:06 not random 15:20:50 writing your own is easy enough for sure, though 15:21:19 see http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/paper445.pdf and http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/noise 15:22:02 -!- justeco [i=tim@66.39.162.178] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:22:25 nikodemus pasted "noise functions, hereby in public domain" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79405 15:23:28 right now that's sbcl only -- but to make it portable just replace the %TRUNCATE and %%TRUNCATE 15:23:54 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:23:55 nikodemus: You wrote that fast! ;) 15:24:07 -!- smolyn [n=smolyn@S01060016cbc4b572.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [] 15:24:10 this is probably the third time i paste that file :) 15:25:17 oh, that file is the wrong version -- sorry 15:27:43 kinnetica [n=kinnetic@dhcp-225-13.wireless.american.edu] has joined #lisp 15:28:08 is that the perlin noise code? 15:28:27 does it works with sbcl? 15:29:15 topo: yes, and only with SBCL. 15:29:36 is there a tutorial or something? to learn how it works? 15:35:11 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:35:46 -!- vande [n=sdfpme@59.36.186.252] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:35:58 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-140-246.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:37:25 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 15:38:47 nikodemus annotated #79405 "the version that actually works as a standalone" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79405#1 15:39:13 whats the difference? 15:39:53 the other one depended on a bunch of macros not in that file, etc 15:40:00 -!- mooto [n=chatzill@221.234.213.211] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:40:05 nikodemus: not a fan of (m-v-call (lambda (cx x cy y cz z) ...) (floor) (floor) (floor)) ? 15:40:58 the entry points are VECTOR-NOISE, TURBULENCE, and PERLIN-NOISE. should be simple enough to figure out 15:41:09 pkhuong: heh 15:42:45 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 15:43:46 why it doesnt work? 15:43:49 im getting this: 15:43:50 * (perlin-noise 2 2 2) 15:43:50 debugger invoked on a UNDEFINED-FUNCTION: The function V is undefined. 15:44:33 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:44:52 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6C0E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:45:11 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:45:25 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6C0E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:32 because you loaded the wrong version 15:45:51 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:58 load the one in the annotation -- like i said the first depends on a few macros not in that file 15:46:13 also, you call the PERLIN-NOISE function thusly: 15:46:15 (perlin-noise (make-array 3 :element-type 'single-float :initial-contents '(1.1 2.2 3.3)) 15:46:15 2 15:46:15 0.5) 15:46:18 if i run the other version i get errors as well 15:46:19 * (perlin-noise 22 22 22) 15:46:19 debugger invoked on a TYPE-ERROR: 15:46:19 The value 22 is not of type (SIMPLE-ARRAY SINGLE-FLOAT (*)). 15:46:47 why make array? 15:46:50 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-9-108.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:55 yes, because it expects the first argument to be a specialized vector holding the coordinate 15:47:03 for efficiency reasons 15:47:18 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 15:47:31 in the real world you have a vector you want to get the noise for, and passing a single specialized vector is much more efficient then passing three floats 15:47:57 also, note the octaves and persistence arguments 15:48:24 what does octaves means and persistent? 15:49:08 my perlin noise is in that array? 15:50:11 read the ken perlin's stuff to see what they mean 15:50:22 and once again we see the punishment meted out to a good deed 15:50:47 (or eg. POV-Ray documentation, which IIRC uses the terms consistently with the rest of the world) 15:50:49 why you just define 3 initial elements? 15:52:41 -!- blandest1 [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:53:25 nikodemus pasted "topo, use this. NOISE3 in this file is probably the function you want -- that one you can call with just three coordinates" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79406 15:53:41 yes that one 15:53:50 something like this: 15:53:51 http://www.anthonymattox.com/perlin-noise#more-919 15:54:22 which is the difference with the one you posted before? 15:54:29 Rigdern_ [n=Rigdern@m2-f1-06.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 15:54:29 is there any new posibilities with that? 15:54:30 -!- Rigdern [n=Rigdern@m2-f1-06.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:54:33 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:58 octaves and persistence: http://freespace.virgin.net/hugo.elias/models/m_perlin.htm 15:55:13 with what? 15:55:39 topo, read the message. "NOISE3 in this file is probably the function you want" 15:55:51 that's the difference 15:55:56 oh you just added that function 15:55:59 cool thanks 15:56:14 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:56:21 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 15:57:19 <``Erik> schemetard query: why is defun inside of a defun bad form? does it attempt to eval the form when called? I grok the difference between flet and labels, but ... why 3? :D 15:58:04 having a defun inside a defun will have no compile time effect 15:58:05 ``Erik: because defun inside a defun defines a new toplevel function each time it's executed. 15:58:14 does it needs to receive floats? 15:59:04 <``Erik> toplevel? wow, that's radically different htan scheme, um, I thought CL used the same scoping rules as scheme and elisp was the odd one :( 15:59:45 def* macros in CL generally affect global scope 16:00:04 <``Erik> ok, thanks! 16:00:14 ``Erik: if this really interests you, you will enjoy LiSP (Lisp in Small Pieces) 16:00:34 <``Erik> xach told me to check that out, but I coudln't find a free online version 16:01:04 Scheme nested defines are sort of a special case, really a syntactic sugar for letrec 16:01:11 splittist: i never learn... 16:01:12 queue stories from oldtimers about whole buildings just full of things called 'books' 16:01:29 splittist: cue too? (: 16:01:50 pkhuong: heh, yes indeed! 16:03:11 milanj [n=milan@93.86.56.238] has joined #lisp 16:03:45 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 16:05:19 housel: defines inside defines in scheme seem pretty logical to me, nothing special 16:05:37 topo: if you call NOISE3 with whole numbers only, the result will always be 0.0 16:05:59 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:06:23 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has joined #lisp 16:06:25 ejs [n=eugen@107-206-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:02 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:03 smolyn [n=smolyn@76.77.66.100] has joined #lisp 16:08:13 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:08:46 <``Erik_> razzlefrazzle :/ where is the best place to buy LiSP and teh gigamonkeys book? I imagine amazon is not the best way to put $'s into the authors pockets? 16:09:01 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:09:43 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 16:10:49 ``Erik: if you want the French edition of LiSP, http://www.lmet.fr/ 16:10:55 soumynona_ [n=soumynon@64.55.144.44] has joined #lisp 16:11:33 <``Erik> english, sorry, from the US :) 16:12:09 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-216-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:58 <``Erik> speak of :) 16:14:38 ``Erik: I would sell you my copy, but it has the signature of both the author and the translator. 16:14:51 (so I keep it to myself) 16:15:23 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:16:19 -!- soumynona_ [n=soumynon@64.55.144.44] has left #lisp 16:16:47 plage: fanboi! 16:17:45 <``Erik> *ordered* think it took more time to remember my login info than to find the books heh :) 16:19:57 dkcl: Are you talking about my devotion for the translator of that book? 16:20:17 spiaggia: Indeed I am. 16:20:38 dkcl: You should consider that to be a *good thing*! 16:21:13 spiaggia: I'm not a fan of fanboyism or devotion to people. 16:21:19 roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:26 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has left #lisp 16:21:40 there you have it, time to file for a divorce 16:22:19 jsnell: It looks like that is indeed dkcl's advice doesn't it? 16:22:38 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 16:22:55 Heh. 16:26:41 *spiaggia* takes off for home 16:32:14 -!- dwave_ [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:33:04 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:33:59 elias` [n=me@resnet-nat-082.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:38:11 kinnetica_ [n=kinnetic@dhcp-225-13.wireless.american.edu] has joined #lisp 16:38:11 -!- kinnetica [n=kinnetic@dhcp-225-13.wireless.american.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:39:33 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:41:15 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:42:10 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:44:31 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:47:24 Ragnaroek [i=54a67bc8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-617fbe46a808b5f3] has joined #lisp 16:48:21 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D13B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:51:18 mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has joined #lisp 16:52:30 benreesman [n=ben@ip68-101-196-173.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:51 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-98-143.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:30 -!- mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has quit [Client Quit] 16:56:33 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has left #lisp 16:57:02 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:59:46 -!- rolly1975 [n=rory@193.108.73.27] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"] 17:03:09 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has joined #lisp 17:08:39 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 17:11:18 mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has joined #lisp 17:12:00 devsforev [n=ryan@cpe-74-71-135-253.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:12:00 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit ["leaving"] 17:12:05 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-4992.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 17:12:37 -!- roidrage [n=roidrage@dslb-084-058-135-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 17:12:58 jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has joined #lisp 17:13:56 Greetings everyone. I am working on a Sudoku program in common lisp. Whenever I run it through the interpreter, or compile the file upon loading, it works just fine. However, if I compile the program and then try to run the .fas, it always generates the same board! Any thoughts to why this may be happening? 17:15:25 You need to seed the random state. 17:15:33 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-4992.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:15:38 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 17:15:47 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-4992.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 17:15:56 clhs make-random-state 17:15:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_rnd.htm 17:16:40 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:54 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:17:02 ahhhh thank you both very much. I'm checking out that link now. 17:17:47 -!- rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1279406049.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:19:00 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1279406049.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:20:18 -!- kinnetica_ [n=kinnetic@dhcp-225-13.wireless.american.edu] has quit [] 17:22:39 -!- rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1279406049.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:23:15 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:23:46 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:26:22 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181130009.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:26:28 projections [n=p@88.235.101.2] has joined #lisp 17:27:04 -!- poet [n=tim@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:27:08 poet [n=tim@64.198.227.181] has joined #lisp 17:27:46 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:28:06 -!- oso`perezoso [n=nonamme@cpe-74-64-125-220.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:28:10 oso`perezoso [n=nonamme@cpe-74-64-125-220.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:28:49 ignas_ [n=ignas@217.117.21.72] has joined #lisp 17:28:51 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 17:29:11 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:29:23 -!- legumbre` is now known as legumbre 17:31:09 -!- Rigdern_ [n=Rigdern@m2-f1-06.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has left #lisp 17:31:47 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 17:31:55 Greetings. 17:32:18 hello tmh 17:32:23 and good evening everyone. 17:36:06 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-1c7ad06810de0d5e] has joined #lisp 17:40:59 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-4992.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:41:52 My first javascript hack: http://splittist.com/oll.html (written for my own use, so not a lot in the way of error messages or user instructions) 17:42:58 Rigdern [n=Rigdern@m2-f1-06.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 17:43:51 nice! 17:44:17 how do you close the damn calendar? 17:45:23 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-4992.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 17:46:15 beach: pick a date? And wait. And wait. (The trick is that there are missing log files for the middle of April, which everyone will click first...) 17:46:27 I see, OK. 17:46:48 -!- Rigdern [n=Rigdern@m2-f1-06.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has left #lisp 17:47:10 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 17:47:17 tmh pasted "Fun with RANDOM" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79412 17:47:26 which is the command in emacs for seeing the lisp hightlight in slime? 17:48:30 beach: if you click on the join/quit things they go away. (And click on the times to bring them back) 17:48:40 topo: M-x global-font-lock-mode 17:49:15 ok thanks 17:50:49 splittist: Amusing yourself, huh? 17:50:59 HG` [n=wells@91.108.74.20] has joined #lisp 17:51:44 Thanks again for whoever pointed me in the right direction for setting the random-state. That fixed my problem and everythings working fine now. 17:54:14 -!- oudeis_ [n=oudeis@bzq-219-152-214.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:54:42 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:54:45 beach: I just wanted to read the logs more easily (: 17:55:29 splittist: I am afraid I can't believe that. I find grep etc work better for that. 17:55:44 occasionally emacs $(ls -tr | tail -1) 17:55:54 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:56:25 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has quit [] 17:57:06 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:00 beach: I suspect we read in different ways, and in different situations. Now I don't need to be at my computer to catch up on things. But if I was actually /looking/ for something in the logs, this wouldn't be the way I'd do it (: 17:58:31 splittist: I see, yes. 17:59:43 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-140-246.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:59:57 beach: but you are correct - it is making up for the lack of ubiquitous Climacs! 18:00:15 And now to home... 18:00:48 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@146-85.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["And I'll catch up on oll..."] 18:02:38 in SBCL, (LAMBDA (SB-KERNEL:INSTANCE)) is probably a struct accessor, right? 18:05:12 dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 18:09:25 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-188-19.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:09:40 minion: seen liamh 18:09:41 liamh was last seen 5y6m14d32h43m10s ago, saying "minion: when are you going to support seen?" 18:09:58 heh 18:10:23 ... 18:10:31 I call shenanigans! 18:10:43 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.68.107] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:12:01 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 18:12:17 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 18:12:25 Isn't there a bot in this channel that responds to that? 18:13:22 minion: logs 18:13:22 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 18:13:26 search the logs! 18:14:07 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-188-19.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 18:14:46 what is the fastest way to determine if two lists hold the same elements, not necessarili in the same order? 18:15:09 clhs set-difference 18:15:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_set_di.htm 18:15:36 Someone needs to read Touretzky's book. 18:15:38 *dkcl* rolls eyes. 18:15:45 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:15:56 oh, thanks. you have no idea what kind of tricks i've been using. 18:16:25 Dodek: but, it won't respect count of elements either 18:16:29 dkcl: in his defense, it's easy to go on using CL for a while and not remember functions here and there. 18:16:46 sykopomp: Yeah, that's true. 18:17:32 won't it? hm, count of elements does matter. 18:18:22 let me rephrase the question - what is the fastest way to check if one list is permutation of another? 18:19:03 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.68.107] has joined #lisp 18:19:15 Dodek: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_conses.htm 18:19:18 ajcc [n=adrian@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:22 those are the list functions. There's not that many 18:19:29 saikat [n=saikat@69.181.127.247] has joined #lisp 18:19:41 if you want to peek at sequences, push the up arrow until you get to the chapters index, and look at sequences. 18:20:59 even checking for the same length isn't efficient on lists 18:22:02 hi tmh 18:22:24 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:23:05 stassats`, function i'm looking for will be o(n) anyway, so #'length being O(n) won't change much 18:24:06 Hey LiamH. Has the error condition in NUMBER-EQUAL in LISP-UNIT been a problem for your testing? NUMBER-EQUAL throws an error if it is passed something other than a number. I'm debating on whether or not this is consistent with its use in LISP-UNIT. 18:24:50 tmh: not that I've noticed. But to fail I'd have to get a non-number where I expect a number, and I guess that just hasn't happened. 18:25:03 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@217.117.21.72] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:26:45 LiamH: I was updating COMPLEX-EQUAL this morning because it only handles '(COMPLEX FLOAT) types and I need it to handle '(COMPLEX INTEGER) as well, which I didn't anticipate needing. Anyway, I was looking at NUMBER-EQUAL and wondering if in the context of LISP-UNIT it should throw and error or just have LISP-UNIT report the expected and erroneous values. 18:27:30 I think it's okay, if you're using #'= in LISP-UNIT and pass it something other than a number, it throws an error. 18:28:07 *tmh* is getting tunnel vision and needed an external sanity check. 18:28:47 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-4992.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:28:52 tmh: I guess the difference in practice is that you get a "test failure" vs. "execution error" when something goes wrong. I prefer the former, I find it easier to debug. 18:29:34 So I'd side with accepting everything and just failing the test if they are of different types, but I don't have a strong opinion on it. 18:29:40 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D13B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:01 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:30:05 LiamH: Well, that was basically what I was struggling with, whether a "test failure" or an "execution error" was more useful. 18:30:47 LiamH: I've not encountered enough/any situations where I passed it something other than a number in my testing. 18:30:57 tmh: in the summary of results, execution errors cause the elimination of the entire set of tests; failures are tallied up as such, and they other forms that pass are counted as passing. 18:31:13 stassats` pasted "permutation-p" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79414 18:31:28 Dodek: maybe something like this 18:31:37 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-188-19.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:32:33 nullwork [n=kyle@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:38 LiamH: Definitely. In the context of LISP-UNIT, I think removing the error condition is the right choice. I've been finding, though, that I need the equality predicates outside of LISP-UNIT. In that case, I think having the error condition is necessary. 18:33:11 I'm pondering how to package up the equality predicates for external use and keep them synced with the version in LISP-UNIT. 18:33:14 tmh: you could add an optional argument 'errorp 18:34:05 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:34:07 like 'eof-error-p in the read functions 18:34:26 I'll look at those interfaces. 18:35:28 Jabberwockey [n=jens@port-4992.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 18:39:08 theL00p [n=user@78.33.52.101] has joined #lisp 18:39:12 Dodek annotated #79414 "my version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79414#1 18:39:39 stassats`, it seems my version is faster 18:39:39 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-216-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:39:58 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:18 on what input data? 18:40:22 lists of integers 18:40:47 well, how much integers? 18:40:51 -!- mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has quit ["reverting"] 18:41:01 5-15, i guess 18:41:15 tom__ [n=sergk@217.175.7.211] has joined #lisp 18:41:18 oh well, then why bother 18:41:54 it's called few hundred thousand times, that's why 18:42:39 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:44:05 if you want it faster, don't use lists 18:44:12 -!- benreesman [n=ben@ip68-101-196-173.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 18:44:13 somebody on #haskell-blah complained that sbcl doesn't work on 64bit windows.. 18:44:47 deepfire: So... do you want us to all go over there and verbally berate them? 18:45:18 PiccoloPrincipeA [n=giorgio@net-93-146-18-226.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 18:46:10 hello, can someone help me to evaluate a list of expressions? 18:46:25 I have it in a text file and I don't know how to pass to the interpreter 18:46:27 tmh, just you would be enough :-) 18:46:33 I use clisp 18:46:34 PiccoloPrincipeA: Isn't that what the REPL if for? 18:46:38 -!- z-axis [n=sergk@93.190.178.245] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:46:47 Or maybe try EVAL 18:47:34 tmh, that was just a data point. I remember somebody (nyef?) telling that win64 is irrelevant. 18:47:34 *tmh* gets back to work, being a wisenheimer isn't productive. 18:48:01 This wasn't intended to prove or disprove anything -- it was just a data point. 18:48:21 so is there a way to eval expressions listed in a file? every line, an expression 18:48:49 Dodek: try to add :size 20 to make-hash-table 18:48:51 PiccoloPrincipeA: (load "my-file-of-expressions.lisp") 18:48:57 rickardg [n=user@c-077671d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:49:03 ignas_ [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:49:05 and :test #'eq if your integers are fixnums 18:49:17 i'll try it 18:49:29 rme, thanks, I load the file but nothing shows 18:49:31 deepfire: Oh, I thought maybe you were looking for moral support. I can't believe that calling win64 irrelevant was an absolute statement. 18:51:49 stassats`, it's 20% faster, altough sorting version is still faster than it. 18:52:09 what implementation do you use? 18:52:15 stassats`: fixnums are not necessarily eq 18:52:38 Krystof: well, i know, but in practice they are 18:52:58 stassats`: how many implementations actually have fixnums as #'eq, though? 18:53:07 PiccoloPrincipeA pasted "evaluate a list of expression in a file" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79415 18:53:09 those which i use 18:53:10 stassats`, sbcl 18:53:50 sykopomp: if you want really good optimizations, stick with one implementation 18:54:58 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:27 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:56:25 PiccoloPrincipeA: They get evaluated, but their values won't get printed. 18:56:39 Dodek: for me my version is faster, but our test data is different 18:56:51 stassats`: is :size 20 actually faster? How's that work? 18:56:59 beach: thanks, I solved piping the file to clisp 18:57:10 Are there any widely used implementations which have non-EQ fixnums? 18:57:31 s/widely used/non-obscure/ 18:57:32 sykopomp: you don't need to rehash it if you exceed the default size 18:58:19 stassats`, my data is like, take set of perfect cubes, convert them into list of digits and check if they are permutations of another 18:58:42 sounds like a project euler problem 18:59:05 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@S01060014bfef2498.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:19 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:00:01 Dodek, I'd try reducing consing, by moving the hashtable creation outside the function, and only doing clrhash on each entry. If that's possible. 19:00:39 stassats`, guessed right 19:00:54 Dodek: what number? 19:01:03 62 19:02:27 i guess i solved it mostly in the repl, because i couldn't understand my approach from the source file 19:02:41 jao [n=jao@96.Red-79-155-153.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:08 rickardg` [n=user@c-077671d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:03:59 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:32 -!- devsforev [n=ryan@cpe-74-71-135-253.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:04:35 but i bet it was something like this, because i love brute-force 19:06:50 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:08:23 in half of problems i have already done, i used brute force and made it under 5 secs 19:09:13 devsforev [n=ryan@129.3.112.43] has joined #lisp 19:09:34 -!- rickardg` [n=user@c-077671d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:11:23 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 19:11:54 -!- dysinger_ [n=tim@ip-64-139-9-115.dsl.sca.megapath.net] has quit [] 19:12:53 dysinger [n=tim@ip-64-139-9-115.dsl.sca.megapath.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:52 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:12 With McCLIM, I was reading the research paper from the site earlier today, and it mentioned that it utilizes the widget sets on the computer - like on windows, it uses the win32 stuff, linux gtk or kde, and so on...I wonder how that's accomplished. 19:15:34 it isn't yet 19:15:48 -!- dysinger [n=tim@ip-64-139-9-115.dsl.sca.megapath.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:16:11 it only has clx backend and more or less working gtk backend 19:17:14 Oh? hmmm, interesting so when one distributes it..say I was to "compile" it with sbcl, include the .core file, sbcl, and all that (I can provide a link from the ltk documentation that covers this), how does it handle the graphic libraries as well? 19:17:41 And also does that mean I need to install sbcl on 3 different systems, and build the .core files on each system before things work? 19:17:57 in any case you need to do this 19:18:27 -!- rickardg [n=user@c-077671d5.027-77-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:32 sbcl core files works only with the runtime it was built 19:18:45 exact version, exact platform 19:19:30 -!- devsforev [n=ryan@129.3.112.43] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 19:19:50 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181130009.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:20:18 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-188-19.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:20:21 tcr: i *think* i have another infinite loop from slime 19:20:31 if you mean gtk or qt on linux, then you can build one core and select backends dynamically 19:20:41 that's in theory 19:20:47 or at least current slime make my emacs go totally unresponsive quite a lot 19:20:54 makes, even 19:21:41 -!- PiccoloPrincipeA [n=giorgio@net-93-146-18-226.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:22:37 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@y192020.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:22:46 stassats`: no, in practice they are not. ABCL's fixnums are not interned 19:23:28 Krystof: in my practice, then 19:23:44 stassats`: That makes sense, so basically I need to build separately on each system then to get it working and package 3 files. I can live with that, was hoping for something easier but oh well. 19:24:42 stassats`: So once I build these 3 file ( well 2, include sbcl), I don't need to worry about the end user having the same general backend, overall? 19:25:08 nikodemus: Sigh. What's the file you're looking at? 19:25:34 TDT: at the moment, you don't have much choice, only CLX works really well 19:26:22 stassats`: So with McCLIM, I can choose the backend you mentioned? if so, I need to read up on that a bit...CLX sounds like the best option if I don't want to worry about end users as much. 19:27:43 guille_ [n=guille_@106.Red-83-39-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:00 hm, maybe it's something else 19:28:09 it seems to be related to having a debugger open 19:28:24 trying to reproduce sensibly 19:28:28 TDT: clx is the default one 19:29:04 you should be more worried about users who prefer fancy and flashy interfaces 19:29:21 nikodemus: Debugger? That seems improbable. The adapted the fontifying for lisp-mode. 19:29:28 s/The/I/ 19:29:43 stassats`: You're on Slime HEAD, too? 19:30:06 also: slime seems to occasionally open files behind my back now. under some circumstances while compiling McCLIM emacs asks me if this-and-that buffer local variable is ok to use -- when i definitely have not opened the file manually 19:30:16 yes, but i haven't yet used it much today 19:30:25 nikodemus: If you load with ,load that's intended. 19:30:28 stassats`: heh, yeah, but for the basic stuff I plan to just test with (got a listing of guineapigs willing to help test a distributed app I want to make) won't care too much. 19:30:35 i don't 19:31:00 with (eval-when (...) (require :mcclim)) 19:31:03 stassats`: I decided as a practical example to try and create just a simple terminal - that is, very simple window, input box, output box...built into tarballs, and sent to them on windows, linux, and OSX. 19:31:29 nikodemus: It opens the files to highlight the forms that were responsible for compiler notes etc 19:31:36 mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:31:49 please don't open files i have not opened 19:31:49 *stassats`* got annoyed by the bunch of opening files and slightly modified slime-asdf 19:31:55 stassats`: I think th eproject is simple enough to not take too long to do - yet will be a nice mental exercise and at least teach me enough about distributing apps as well as some concepts I don't know already. 19:31:58 that just sucks 19:32:13 No I like it. If I don't want it I use (asdf:oos ..) 19:32:33 TDT: on windows your users should also have X server, like xming 19:32:44 nikodemus: surely the answer is to zap all compiler notes from mcclim compilation :-) 19:32:57 on os x too, but i heard it's somewhat easier to get it 19:32:57 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit ["leaving"] 19:33:07 how do i make slime not patch require/asds? 19:33:13 asdf, even 19:33:27 nikodemus: It does not patch asdf, it should only happen when you use the asdf repl commands 19:33:29 Krystof: ...or even full warnings... 19:33:31 sugarshark [n=ole@p4FDA902E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:33:40 tcr: i'm not using repl commands 19:34:03 i have a while with (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-topleval) (require :mcclim)) on top 19:34:14 Right what do you expect? 19:34:17 when I C-c C-k that file, it happens 19:34:29 How should it differentiate between that and for when such a require is not there? 19:34:34 i would expect slime to never open a .lisp file i have not opened 19:34:46 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 19:34:48 set slime-highlight-compiler-notes to nil? 19:35:19 what if those files are on a slow nfs partition? 19:35:27 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-146.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:35:48 It think it should ask before trying to open a bunch of files. 19:35:55 how about that? 19:36:03 what if they have lots of local variable stuff that is annoying to type "y" at every time? 19:36:21 -!- galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:36:47 i would prefer to have (setq slime-dwim-open-stuff nil) -- :ask and t would be the other options 19:36:55 nikodemus: But I'm more intersted in that non-responsive issue. 19:37:03 Krystof: then set enable-local-variables to :safe 19:37:09 which is the best way of making a "i" variable with dolist? 19:37:34 topo: (loop for element in list as i from 0 do ...) 19:37:44 stassats`: Ah, I see, so CLX relies on X stuff under, dang..was hoping the win32 stuff would actually use the win32 calls. 19:37:58 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:38:00 nikodemus: There are lots of small user interface glitches in the current version. I find the inspector be pretty much unusable. 19:38:01 A value of t means file local variables specifications are obeyed; 19:38:01 nil means they are ignored; anything else means query. 19:38:07 stassats`: that doesn't sound like a good plan 19:38:18 nikodemus pasted "gdb backtrace for a stuck emacs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79420 19:38:20 dlowe that is supposed to be inside the dolist function? 19:38:26 topo: no 19:38:29 but this doesn't happen always 19:38:42 TDT: one needs to write that yet 19:38:49 Krystof: ":safe means set the safe variables, and ignore the rest." 19:39:04 that's nice, but that is not actually true in my emacs 19:39:05 says C-h v 19:39:39 nikodemus: Is that .lisp file confidental? 19:39:55 nope 19:40:12 Does it happen when you just scroll around? 19:40:18 Krystof: your emacs is too old! 19:41:22 -!- tom__ [n=sergk@217.175.7.211] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:41:24 yeah, some cursor position make it go loopy 19:41:37 nikodemus: Please report any user interface glitches to the mailing list. If it's from you I may be tempted to give special attention to them because of "quid pro quo" :) 19:41:58 nikodemus: Ok, could you load the file up somewhere then, please? 19:42:07 coming 19:42:53 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 19:43:45 in email 19:43:54 tayloj [n=tayloj@wright.mm.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 19:44:06 I had seen truly hilarious book deal today 19:44:29 ajcc_ [n=adrian@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:43 ok e-mail will take up to 15minutes to propagate to me 19:45:11 "Java: How to program" & "The craft of functional programming, 2nd Edition", together :D 19:45:37 -!- guille_ [n=guille_@106.Red-83-39-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:45:54 tcr: wasn't telegraph faster? 19:45:56 loxs [n=loxs@78.149.38.89] has joined #lisp 19:46:17 nikodemus: For the time being you can set slime-highlight-suppressed-forms to nil in your .emacs. 19:46:43 stassats`: Dunno, I think that's due to greylisting or some such antispam means 19:46:56 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 19:46:59 -!- tayloj [n=tayloj@wright.mm.rpi.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:47:10 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:47:19 tayloj [n=tayloj@wright.mm.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 19:47:32 greylisting, timeouting, etc. 19:49:56 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:50:08 -!- jao [n=jao@96.Red-79-155-153.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:50:12 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:50:17 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:42 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.48.233] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:50:49 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-140-246.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:50:51 -!- ajcc [n=adrian@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:50:57 -!- ajcc_ is now known as ajcc 19:51:17 -!- mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:51:21 smithzv [n=smithzv@c-67-173-240-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:25 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:52:44 when using asdf in CL, how come some systems spit me out in one of their packages upon completion (instead of the package I started in)? 19:53:53 smithzv: which implementation? 19:54:05 sbcl 19:54:14 which systems do that? 19:54:40 iolib and liam healy's fsbv, it is pretty rare 19:54:51 it should be pretty much impossible since both LOAD and COMPILE-FILE bind *PACKAGE* 19:55:22 i suspect Slime interference 19:55:28 this is 1.0.25 under slime 19:55:43 ok 19:55:43 so it happens sometimes, not always? 19:55:54 always with those packages 19:56:00 let me try without slime 19:56:29 smithzv: Don't forget, without slime, the prompt won't indicate the package. 19:56:31 jao [n=jao@81.Red-79-155-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:31 mogunus [n=user@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 19:56:41 That's bitten me on occasion. 19:58:01 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 19:59:34 nikodemus: From the command line, (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :iolib :force t) leaves me in "NET.SOCKETS". 19:59:50 same as Slime 20:01:31 *nikodemus* tries 20:01:49 getting rid of sbclrc, just in case 20:02:25 are you loading them from .sbclrc? 20:02:40 no, but other libraries 20:02:43 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17C819.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:24 -!- nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:03:25 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-98-143.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 20:03:45 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:05:40 nikodemus: wow, just trying to open that file makes my emacs go havoc 20:07:42 smithzv: # 20:07:46 will look into this 20:07:55 k, weird 20:08:19 tc-rucho [n=tc-rucho@unaffiliated/tc-rucho] has joined #lisp 20:08:51 I'd suspects it's hooking into asdf somehow and sets the *package* in PERFORM or some such 20:10:22 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:10:31 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-246.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:10:32 i think i know what's the issue 20:11:08 CFFI-GROVEL::GENERATE-C-FILE sets *PACKAGE* 20:11:29 btw, thanks to anyone who asked about TokyoCabinet. It made me actually do *some* work on it during a train trip :D 20:11:58 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:12:03 benreesman [n=ben@asa01-ext.utc.backmo.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:09 nikodemus: So what does that mean. This happens outside the dynamic bindings of *package*? 20:16:38 it's caused by asdf systems with CFFI-GROVEL components 20:16:46 -!- jao [n=jao@81.Red-79-155-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:16:46 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 20:17:05 I guess I should (let ((*package* *package*)) (asdf ...)) 20:17:14 i just sent luis a patch 20:17:26 ASDF doesn't currently bind *PACKAGE*, though arguably it should 20:17:36 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 20:17:54 compiling a CFFI-GROVEL component causes the behaviour you see 20:18:18 nikodemus pasted "minimal CFFI patch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79422 20:18:31 ok, gotcha, mystery solved, thanks nikodemus, tcr 20:18:40 is there a good use case for it _not_ binding package? I might want a system that when loaded changes *package*. I can't think why i might want that though. 20:18:58 no, i think ASFD:OOS should bind package 20:19:35 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19:46 FWIW i think so as well, i'm just playing devils advocate here. 20:19:54 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:22:02 nikodemus: bleh, I'm afraid that's a bug in Emacs. I know about it but I merely thought that it'd cause inefficiency. 20:22:29 I even reported it as such. 20:22:43 dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 20:25:48 -!- HG` [n=wells@91.108.74.20] has quit [Client Quit] 20:26:55 Oh noes silly me. 20:27:53 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 20:28:17 nikodemus: thanks, I've committed that fix to cffi-grovel 20:30:37 thanks! 20:31:27 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.69.135] has joined #lisp 20:32:12 tcr pasted "for nikodemus" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79424 20:33:09 nikodemus: That fixes your problem. Please apply it, don't set slime-highlight-suppress-forms to nil anymore, and go with it. 20:33:16 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:33:48 -!- projections [n=p@88.235.101.2] has quit [] 20:35:30 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:05 white-rabbit-obj [n=cpc5@cpe-67-241-171-153.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:27 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 20:41:53 -!- Dodek [n=user@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:45:22 -!- poet [n=tim@64.198.227.181] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:45:27 poet [n=tim@64.198.227.181] has joined #lisp 20:45:32 -!- azanar [n=edcarrel@dsl231-050-036.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [] 20:45:37 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6C0E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 20:45:37 -!- poet [n=tim@64.198.227.181] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:49:53 -!- cpape [n=user@host16084.pik-potsdam.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:50:09 poet__ [n=tim@64.198.227.181] has joined #lisp 20:50:28 thanks! 20:52:48 nikodemus annotated #79424 "from nikodemus to TCR" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79424#1 20:53:08 -!- elurin` [n=user@88.254.109.142] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:54:10 ejs1 [n=eugen@107-206-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:44 KickAssClown [n=designer@c-98-244-60-216.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:51 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.30.27] has joined #lisp 20:55:04 -!- poet__ [n=tim@64.198.227.181] has quit [Client Quit] 20:55:11 Hello? 20:55:50 Hello! 20:56:47 Hello. (was that in three part harmony stooges style?) 20:57:01 I know this may seem kind of random, but I am looking for a community to discuss W-Grammar, also known as van Wijngaarden grammar, with. 20:57:18 The odd thing is something similar happened in #scheme 20:57:22 drewc, now that you mention, I think so. 20:57:39 If i understood what you just said, i'd discuss it with you, sounds interesting 20:57:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LZ6yRy7VZ4 <---- hello hello hello done right :) 20:58:33 drewc: sad thing is, that I actually find this funny 20:59:16 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-140-246.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:59:16 madnificent: well, you're in good company there... i'm still smiling :D 20:59:32 :P 21:00:11 KickAssClown: you'd probably be better off in ##compsci or something.. we don't care much for syntax and grammars 'round here. 21:00:37 I'm trying to design a self-referential strange looping language. I'm walking myself slowly through this, http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/vw.html, tutorial. 21:01:14 nikodemus do you plan on merging my sockets patch on next release ? 21:02:27 remind me, what was it? 21:02:37 KickAssClown: if you're doing it in lisp, save any syntax until you have the semantics right.. just use sexps. If you're not using lisp, then there is not much #lisp can help you with. 21:03:15 nikodemus it gets rid of the vector copy in socket-receive, if given vector has ub8 elements 21:03:16 -!- topo [n=topo@77.228.136.95] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:03:36 topo [n=topo@77.228.136.95] has joined #lisp 21:04:31 now i remember. it's on my list of items to deal with 21:04:55 its fairly small, i'd appreciate it if it went in (if there are no issues of course) 21:05:19 not sure about next month. IIRC last i looked at it i concluded that there was a bunch of other things there that would best be dealt with at the same time, and then didn't have the time/energy to deal with them 21:05:47 well you could let me know and i can try doing the work 21:08:15 -!- ejs [n=eugen@107-206-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:08:30 ok 21:08:34 blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:1194:c3d3:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 21:08:46 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:09:03 -!- tayloj [n=tayloj@wright.mm.rpi.edu] has left #lisp 21:09:57 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:27 -!- sugarshark [n=ole@p4FDA902E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:12:53 -!- KickAssClown [n=designer@c-98-244-60-216.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:14:08 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [] 21:16:47 mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:30 pinterface1 [n=pixel@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:42 angoladon [n=heyjones@67.220.166.250] has joined #lisp 21:20:45 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:52 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e70d6ab.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:21:06 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:21:08 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:39 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:21:44 guille_ [n=guille_@106.Red-83-39-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:12 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-13.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 21:23:44 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:14 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:24:46 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a67bc8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-617fbe46a808b5f3] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:25:16 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:26:39 -!- angoladon [n=heyjones@67.220.166.250] has left #lisp 21:27:16 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 21:30:38 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-140-246.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:31:05 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@63.83.115.122] has joined #lisp 21:35:11 dysinger [n=tim@216.112.110.172.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:15 -!- pinterface [n=pixel@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:38:24 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@2001:6f8:1194:c3d3:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:40:06 -!- ignas_ [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:42:20 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:22 simard [n=user@modemcable234.226-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:42:52 what popular languages are most akin to lisp ? 21:43:13 common lisp 21:43:51 and other than that :) ? 21:44:00 scheme? 21:44:01 probably scheme 21:44:06 Given it's also a lisp 21:44:12 depends on who you ask 21:44:35 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:44:44 if you mean "lisp without parens", you could say Dylan or Ruby 21:44:44 oh btw, if I was to need a GUI for use with common lisp, what should I turn to ? 21:44:44 mjf [n=mjf@r5ba150.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 21:44:45 Most things depend who you ask, though 21:44:50 -!- loxs [n=loxs@78.149.38.89] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:44:52 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@dsl092-045-116.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:55 Ruby is probably the most popular (self-proclaimed) lisp-like language. 21:45:04 is it all that lisp-like? 21:45:13 ruby? yes. 21:45:15 not significantly moreso than python or whatever, I would think 21:45:30 self-proclaimed lisp-like or self-proclaimed popular ? ;) 21:45:40 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 21:45:44 both 21:45:57 it's "matzacred lisp" 21:46:18 http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/179642 21:46:25 basically what stassats says 21:46:26 *rsynnott* has been working with it recently 21:46:33 it's really horribly, inexcusably slow 21:46:43 and has dodgy anonymous functions 21:46:54 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.30.27] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:47:20 azanar [n=edcarrel@edm1a.mavericklabel.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:22 is it slower than clisp? 21:47:29 "add functionality found in Perl" - the bastards 21:47:32 sykopomp: not sure 21:47:37 it's certainly in the same league 21:47:41 feels a bit slower 21:47:54 oh, sorry, I thought you said elisp 21:47:55 what if I'm looking for a language that has lisp-like macros ? does that exist ? 21:47:57 WAY slower than clisp 21:48:13 ruby or python? 21:48:15 simard: plot 21:48:21 It's hard to see how lisp-style macros could be reasonably written in a non-paren-ish language 21:48:27 simard: you want a language that is not a lisp that has lisp-like macros?... 21:48:30 jewel: both, but ruby is way slower than python 21:48:41 sykopomp: actually not really, I'm just asking :) 21:49:06 rsynnott: see dylan 21:49:32 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [] 21:49:39 simard: there was a talk at the ILC this year about a language with full syntax that had "easy" and "similarly powerful" macros. 21:49:56 PLOT 21:49:59 simard: it does exists, it's called Lisp 21:50:01 -!- cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:50:21 cavesnow [n=cavesnow@utente8Timpano.sns.it] has joined #lisp 21:50:40 as for the GUI question, what should I use with clisp ? 21:50:46 (actually, if not for the speed and the 'rails community', ruby wouldn't be half-bad) 21:50:48 -!- topo [n=topo@77.228.136.95] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:50:58 simard: with common lisp in general, or clisp specifically? 21:51:00 simard: gui is overrated, don't use gui 21:51:05 simard: clisp is the implementation, usually 21:51:15 yeah right.. meant common lisp 21:51:15 ruby's syntax and mental model is 'nice' and 'comfy' 21:51:22 CommonQT is quite nice, but immature 21:51:29 (and may or may not work on clisp) 21:51:37 i like it, but the implementation leaves a lot to hope for 21:51:50 ruby, that is 21:51:58 tk seems to be the standard "stable-ish" cross-platform GUI thing 21:52:00 ltk* 21:54:18 HG` [n=wells@91.108.74.20] has joined #lisp 21:54:22 Ruby and rails are definitely moving fast...the area I work in is a ruby shop. 21:54:32 ltk has horrible documentation IMO, hard to use 21:54:34 as a result 21:54:55 i guess it assumes the knowledge of TK 21:55:47 yeah, perhaps. I emailed the author asking them to update the documentation a bit more with examples or something, or just publish stuff they did but no email back about that yet. 21:55:54 TDT: How are people taking to Merb 2.0 becoming Rails 3.0? 21:56:12 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:56:44 TDT: well, that's opensource, either do it yourself or wait for the opensource fairy 21:57:01 they're on rails 3?! 21:57:22 oh, nevermind, I read 'rails' as 'ruby' 21:57:26 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:42 rsynnott: Basically, Merb 2.0 becomes Rails 3.0 (with Rails defaulting to adding some more magic afaik) 21:57:55 -!- dysinger [n=tim@216.112.110.172.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [] 21:58:18 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-181.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:58:28 oh.... goodie 21:59:15 stassats: yeah, that's an understandable point, but I do like documentation quite a bit :) 21:59:42 I don't know much about merb unfortunately..much of my work is maintaining the existing system, I'm not a huge fan of ruby/rails as much as others here. 21:59:58 I'm not terribly impressed by it 22:00:14 (I was recently drafted onto a rails project, so have given self something of a crash course) 22:00:44 in particular, I get the idea that most rails users have no clue what they are doing 22:00:53 *stassats* is happy to be outside the web noise 22:01:01 there's a lot of 'add this helper/function/whatever, for it is magic' 22:01:09 Well, Merb was much saner from my pov 22:01:35 rsynnott: then not much has changed since the days of Turbo Pascal. 22:01:43 as well as engineered for speed, as much as possible without sacrificing programmer usability and with lang. like ruby 22:02:13 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:02:24 and there's little to no magic 22:02:35 also, tutorials which tell people to do stupid bloody things like User.new(params[:user]); even quite experienced rails programmers seem to do this all the time 22:02:44 without taking the appropriate precautions 22:03:36 does it work properly on ruby 1.9? 22:03:44 that in itself would be a great improvement 22:04:00 afk - arriving at the station, so time to hibernate the laptop :D 22:04:05 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.69.135] has quit [] 22:06:22 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@63.83.115.122] has quit [] 22:07:35 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [] 22:08:54 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:09:34 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@63.83.115.122] has joined #lisp 22:09:57 -!- nullman [n=nullman@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:10:03 nullman [n=nullman@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:10 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r5ba150.net.upc.cz] has quit ["dew on the telephone lines"] 22:11:05 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 22:12:21 dysinger [n=tim@216.112.110.172.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:24 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless74.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:12:47 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@107-206-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:14:17 nikodemus: Please send that patch to slime-devel, too. If heller won't complain I'll commit it in a few days. 22:14:33 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:17:56 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:20:34 -!- simard [n=user@modemcable234.226-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:21:50 dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 22:22:56 the maybe-set? 22:23:04 yes 22:23:18 i don't it works quite as pasted, i think the callers need to be adjusted as well 22:23:28 and it's not quite correct 22:23:37 it's the wrong function you want to fix this 22:23:49 right'o 22:24:08 I think I'll do it myself but you should send the inquire to the list 22:24:37 -!- guille_ [n=guille_@106.Red-83-39-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:24:52 -!- cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 22:27:10 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:27:57 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 22:32:05 -!- mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has quit ["zzzzz"] 22:34:23 -!- dto [n=user@98.118.1.212] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:34:56 sent 22:35:07 ok, bedtime 22:35:12 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181130009.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:35:25 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit ["leaving"] 22:37:54 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:37:57 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-216-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:00 dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 22:40:09 brandelune [n=suzume@pl096.nas932.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:42:13 -!- HET2 [n=diman@mars.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:42:19 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@63.83.115.122] has quit [] 22:43:44 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:44:57 -!- HG` [n=wells@91.108.74.20] has quit [Client Quit] 22:45:17 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:49:37 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@wireless-169-235-40-88.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 22:50:07 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 22:50:31 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:51:46 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483FB7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:54:15 where to read papers from ilc2009? 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