00:00:33 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:59 -!- apo_ [n=apo@pD9E7C8A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 00:08:14 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:15:18 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.21] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:15:24 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 00:16:58 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:18:13 nis_ [n=nicolas@91-164-142-143.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:31 -!- nis_ [n=nicolas@91-164-142-143.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 00:18:57 nis [n=nicolas@91-164-142-143.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:44 -!- nis [n=nicolas@91-164-142-143.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:24:03 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:24:12 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:37 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.101.94] has quit ["this is not a quit message"] 00:29:18 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.170.32] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:42:57 bobf_ [n=bob@host81-151-98-242.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:09 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:44:13 -!- bobf_ is now known as bobf 00:47:29 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 00:48:06 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:49:42 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 00:50:32 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177076196.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:57 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:20 hey, i was wondering if anyone had elephant/sbcl working under os x with a bdb datastore? 00:51:54 rvirding [n=rvirding@81.225.114.252] has joined #lisp 00:56:21 nis [n=nicolas@91-164-142-143.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:38 -!- nis [n=nicolas@91-164-142-143.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:58:54 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 01:07:32 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["bB"] 01:14:09 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:14:10 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-64-203.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:15:26 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-159.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 01:15:57 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 01:16:45 -!- woopdeedoo [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:16:48 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 01:17:57 -!- dto [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:18:53 woopdeedoo [n=bite@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has joined #lisp 01:23:26 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0BF5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:25:51 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-188-098-222-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:29:28 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-159.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 01:33:22 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 01:34:50 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:36:19 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 01:38:29 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-68.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 01:49:10 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 01:52:49 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:26 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:31 Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #lisp 01:58:01 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-12-207.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:59:10 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-14-175.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:59:47 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@81.225.114.252] has left #lisp 02:01:03 bobf_ [n=bob@81.151.98.242] has joined #lisp 02:01:14 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:04:06 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:04:07 -!- bobf_ is now known as bobf 02:04:19 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:06:52 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2DA72.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:08:42 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 02:09:45 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:11:09 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:12 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:22:59 saikat [n=saikat@c-69-181-55-180.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:36 athos_ [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 02:25:38 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:27:22 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:28:43 -!- rlpowell [n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:28:50 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-69-150-57-149.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:30:02 -!- athos_ is now known as athos 02:31:36 -!- dwave [n=ask@084202073017.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 02:33:10 rlpowell [n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 02:39:12 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-142.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:39 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-233-254.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 02:43:40 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177076196.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:44:12 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:32 Jiaji [n=Jiaji@121.77.153.212] has joined #lisp 02:50:44 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 02:53:18 whats the difference between (eval '(+ 2 2)) and (eval (+ 2 2))? 02:53:26 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177076196.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:47 does the quote make any difference? 02:54:42 nooper: yes, trace EVAL. 02:55:05 try (eval '(list '+ 1 2)) and (eval (list '+ 1 2)). 02:57:30 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:00:34 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:02:24 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-233-254.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 03:03:42 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-73-126.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:06:16 -!- Jiaji [n=Jiaji@121.77.153.212] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 03:07:32 then, for extra fun, try (eval ''(list '+ 1 2)) 03:08:00 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:08:45 -!- alec [n=alec@pool-96-233-16-99.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:08:51 bobf_ [n=bob@host81-154-13-185.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:10:05 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-179-6.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:18 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:11:37 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:11:41 -!- bobf_ is now known as bobf 03:12:34 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 03:14:19 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:21:04 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 03:21:09 hdfhefgaert43t [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:21 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-68-239-77-4.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:29:09 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:29:51 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.60.204] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:29:58 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.163.88] has joined #lisp 03:30:38 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:03 question; is it possible that the deterministic profiler in sbcl is crashing my app? 03:31:12 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has joined #lisp 03:31:32 i'm profiling all the generic functions up the hunchentoot request handling and processing chain and i'm hitting some funky limits 03:32:23 maybe it doesn't like threads 03:32:30 i tweaked hunchentoot for high performance and i was getting there, until i decided to profile the code with sb-prof:profile and now ht can't handle 20 concurrent requests 03:32:37 that's what i thought 03:33:03 *hefner* always uses the statistical profiler. It is teh awesomes. 03:33:46 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:33:55 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 03:34:48 -!- woopdeedoo [n=bite@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:38:41 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 03:39:17 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:05 -!- Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:40:37 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:41:28 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:43:11 the serve-event interface hasn't changed from what it is in cmucl i hope 03:49:27 anyone using elephant+bdb on os x? 03:49:51 mcspiff: on linux and win32 here, a while back 03:50:37 hmmm im getting errors about loading the shared library...not really sure what im doing 03:51:53 are you running the exact version of bdb elephant requires? 03:52:04 fusss: no idea. 03:52:07 the pre 1.x series of elephant insisted on bdb 4.5 03:52:29 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:52:29 elephant is really iffy about the exact version of bdb you use; read the docs. 03:52:31 dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-68-142-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:52:38 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-68-142-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:52:45 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has joined #lisp 03:52:51 <1.x wouldn't run with bdb 4.4 or 4.6, had to be 4.5 03:53:00 fusss: i will...im just pulling it in through clbuild 03:53:05 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:42 I think ele-1.0, needs bdb 4.7. Also make sure that you build bdb as a 64-bit lib if you're running a 64-bit lisp. 03:53:46 -!- saikat [n=saikat@c-69-181-55-180.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:53:54 elephant might need a rucksack backend, for people who don't like C FFI crap :-) 03:54:44 is elephant my best bet for object persistance? 03:54:55 its the one ive heard mentioned the most often 03:55:28 elephant is pretty awesome, i called it "the best lisp library ever" when i first discovered it. 03:55:42 but .. with the bdb backend 03:55:59 the discussions on the ML don't really inspire confidence. 03:56:34 as always, take it, benchmark the hell out of it, and freeze it for your own use if you're happy 04:00:40 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"] 04:01:05 The one time I tried to use it, their serialiser contained code that executed unaligned accesses. My SPARCs didn't like that one bit (that was a long time ago) 04:01:47 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:02:27 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 04:07:27 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:10:52 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:11:51 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 04:12:22 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-144-151.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:16:03 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 04:21:25 mcspiffy [n=user@drmons0501w-142177076196.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:49 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177076196.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:21:53 -!- mcspiffy is now known as mcspiff 04:22:31 jgrant [n=jgrant@dsl231-043-085.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:33 ok, i've made some progress... shared libraries get loaded 04:23:11 "(elephant:open-store '(:BDB "/Users/chris/db/"))" gives me an error however..."Store controller init function not registered for data store BDB. 04:23:11 " 04:24:41 -!- jgrant [n=jgrant@dsl231-043-085.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:25:51 make sure you're using ele-bdb.asd as well as elephant.asd (presuming you're using asdf) 04:28:32 ianmcorvidae: excellent, one error down 04:31:18 -!- ejs [n=eugen@20-136-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:31:27 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:34:30 "Attempt to call an undefined alien function." is the newest error 04:34:30 04:41:56 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.148.80] has joined #lisp 04:47:11 dreish_ [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 04:48:19 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-179-6.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:51:49 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 04:56:05 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:58:39 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:24 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:59:36 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:04:01 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:07:06 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.6.155] has joined #lisp 05:08:08 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.6.155] has left #lisp 05:08:53 -!- mogunus [n=user@173.9.7.10] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:09:56 -!- dreish_ is now known as dreish 05:10:59 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:11:36 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has left #lisp 05:12:09 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has left #lisp 05:12:11 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:13:52 spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@117.192.6.155] has joined #lisp 05:14:51 -!- deech [n=deech@71-10-166-226.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:15:29 deech [n=deech@71-10-166-226.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:16:18 mogunus [n=user@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 05:17:56 -!- mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075595pcs.unl.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:19:50 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 05:23:17 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 05:26:15 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177076196.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:32:01 mogunus: he 05:32:03 hey* 05:32:45 -!- spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@117.192.6.155] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:33:43 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-3fe54a9f10211d29] has joined #lisp 05:33:57 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-3fe54a9f10211d29] has left #lisp 05:37:24 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:37:35 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:43:04 bonjour sphex 05:45:18 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:47:24 Good morning. 05:47:34 mornin' beach 05:48:53 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:14 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:49:50 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:18 *hefner* becomes completely baffled by defstruct 05:58:28 hefner: ? 06:02:23 saikat [n=saikat@98.210.158.169] has joined #lisp 06:03:39 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-68.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:05:34 ejs [n=eugen@20-136-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:46 I copied some syntax from an older file of mine which doesn't appear to be legal per the spec, but seems to tolerated there (but not here, perhaps owing to the other structure using a boa constructor) 06:06:03 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-233-254.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 06:08:19 (except sometimes it compiles anyway, until I add more than one slot, and I get very confused) 06:13:48 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-94.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 06:15:04 -!- CrazyEddy [n=disenthr@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:16:37 hefner pasted "Where'd I ever come up with this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78824 06:18:37 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:30 kngspook [n=alpha@unaffiliated/alpha] has joined #lisp 06:21:59 works here too .. or, well, seems to work .. (sbcl-1.0.27) 06:22:55 seem the type declarations are silently ignored 06:23:18 hefner: The only thing I see that is not legal according to the spec is that you have no slot-initform. Is that right? 06:23:54 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 06:23:56 beach: you don't normally put the type declaration in its own list like that 06:24:37 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-73-126.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 06:24:40 hefner: That seems to be legal though, but It has to be preceded by a slot-initform, no? 06:25:00 hefner: Oh, I see, yes, no list. 06:25:28 I'll guess it's taking (:type single-float) to be the slot-initform and the fact that it's illegal isn't noticed because there's no default constructor to use it (which explains why it errors when there is) 06:25:33 CrazyEddy [n=Sylveste@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 06:27:37 hefner: That seems plausible. 06:27:43 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 06:29:47 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@84.46.7.49] has joined #lisp 06:35:57 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-73-126.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:42:50 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.161.91] has joined #lisp 06:45:54 vng [n=vuong@222.253.110.249] has joined #lisp 06:46:59 -!- ejs [n=eugen@20-136-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:47:15 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-112-110.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:47:57 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:48:12 hello 06:50:06 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:50:19 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:19 ahem. i have been struggling with hunchentoot the last two days, trying it to do 22 requests per second, and it kept hovering around 8 at best 06:52:37 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:53:33 I believe the normal mode is to get your ETags right and put it behind a caching proxy 06:53:49 s/mode/mode of operation/ 06:54:54 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:55:13 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:18 web server performing at 8 requests per second is like car doing a max speed of 20 mph and then having a truck to carry it around 06:55:38 yo dawg, I heard you like web servers.. 06:55:40 guaqua: i'm doing _realtime_ banner ad layering 06:55:49 err, well, whatever it is 06:56:03 fusss: yeah, nothing wrong with what you say 06:56:20 mostly it sounds just ridiculous - performance-wise 06:56:23 i'm happy with 68/s 06:56:39 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-73-126.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 06:58:26 uffff, just checked the logs and my earlier text didn't make it 06:58:35 ahem. i have been struggling with hunchentoot the last two days, trying it to do 22 requests per second, and it kept hovering around 8 at best 06:58:42 tweaked the hell out of it, benchmarked, replaced thing, FFIed out a few things; as of now we're at 68 requests per second! 3x my requirement. 06:59:04 1.0.0 is a different beast than 0.15.7; the early versions sucked at text, because each lisp character went through two layers of gray streams, but handled binary data better. 06:59:32 *fusss* uses IRC like a notebook 07:05:15 fusss: did you check both the clozure logs and the tunes logs? 07:06:42 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:42 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:06:43 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 07:06:48 i left a question in #ccl about the linux binary not working 07:09:09 *fusss* smacks forehead! 07:09:31 beach: wow, i shouldn't trust the tunes log eh? :-P 07:09:52 fusss: right, it is sometimes down. 07:10:25 but goes back up again 07:10:51 (a tunes logger would certainly have strong reflective mechanisms for its own self-healing ;-) 07:13:29 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 07:14:04 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:14:19 -!- CrazyEddy [n=Sylveste@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:14:31 emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:16:17 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-98-194-108-33.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:20 ,paste 07:16:40 hmmm 07:17:01 minion: tell emacsphan about lisppaste 07:17:01 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 07:17:19 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp78-37-143-33.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 07:17:20 beach: thanks 07:17:28 No problem. 07:17:43 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 07:18:18 hmm, why did lisppaste answer that, rather than minion? 07:19:16 emacsphan pasted "RANDOM used in a macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78825 07:19:18 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:59 I was wondering if someone might be able to look at my paste and help me out? I am a newbie and I am baffled by the behaviors of a simple macro I am trying to define 07:20:11 CrazyEddy [n=karyomit@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 07:20:30 I am using RANDOM in a call to the macro and the macro behaved differently compiled as opposed to being called from the REPL 07:20:41 minion answered in the person of lisppaste 07:20:56 ayrnieu: hmm. 07:21:19 social AI 07:21:20 :) 07:21:57 emacsphan: how do you run the code? 07:22:22 beach: I am using SLIME so I compile and run it with C-c C-k 07:22:22 emacsphan: (after compiling it?) 07:22:55 I believe C-c C-k both compiles the code and runs it immediately after because I see the results of execution at the REPL prompt 07:24:41 it's very odd, I feel like I must be missing something very obvious? 07:25:58 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.101.94] has joined #lisp 07:26:53 emacsphan: I get a different number of iterations every time I do C-c C-k. 07:27:04 beach: really? hmmm this is so strange 07:28:07 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-202-234.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:28:11 EVERY time I do it it prints 1 2 3 and then I get the REPL prompt back... 07:28:37 if I type (my-try (random 10)) at the REPL the loop iterates from between 0 and 9 times, different each time 07:29:28 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:29:35 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:29:35 works perfectly for me 07:30:00 fusss: thanks for trying it, you too beach 07:30:09 I wonder how this can be explained 07:30:20 emacsphan: what is your implementation? 07:30:27 clozure cl 07:30:33 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-98-194-108-33.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has left #lisp 07:30:36 I am using a Mac OS 10.4 07:30:40 on windows? 07:31:30 emacsphan: one possible explanation would be that compile-file or load binds *random-state* so that it is the same every time you compile the file. What happens if you use (random) between two uses of C-c C-k. 07:31:41 try it in other lisps; helps to have at least clisp around, since it's tiny, mostly compliant and has a nice repl useful even without emacs 07:32:09 beach: one moment 07:32:20 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:33:12 http://www.random.org/analysis/dilbert.jpg 07:33:19 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:34:32 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:34:53 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-185.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:34:55 Heh. 07:35:10 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.239.50] has joined #lisp 07:35:32 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-73-126.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:36:22 Isnt there random seed in Lisp ? 07:36:36 to initialize random ? 07:36:40 emacsphan annotated #78825 "calling RANDOM more than once" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78825#1 07:36:56 beach: you are definitely on to something there 07:36:59 check this out 07:38:29 fusss: that was a great link! 07:38:32 MrSpec, make-random-state? 07:38:50 clhs make-random-state 07:38:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_rnd.htm 07:39:04 -!- tweek__ [n=tweek@host-231-137-111-24.midco.net] has left #lisp 07:39:19 yeah, isn't it a solution ? 07:39:33 every time I start SBCL my (random 10) returns 8 07:39:57 "with randomness you can never be sure" 07:39:59 MrSpec: That is not surprising, since it is deterministic. 07:40:28 yeah, I know. But emacsphan's problem isn't similar ? 07:40:40 MrSpec: I think it is the same situation 07:40:43 I am newbie too, so sorry if I'm wrong 07:40:51 MrSpec: It would be interesting to have an explanation for the result, though. 07:41:56 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [] 07:43:09 MrSpec: so, if you don't mind me asking, how would you use make-random-state to avoid having SBCL return 8 every time you compile and run (random 10)? 07:43:30 emacsphan: Were you going to paste something for me to look at? 07:43:38 I'm trying it :D Dont know yet ;) 07:43:57 beach: please check this out http://paste.lisp.org/display/78825#1 07:44:52 MrSpec: thanks I'll try it too 07:44:53 emacsphan: RANDOM uses a special variable called *random-seed*; you can bind that to deterministically generate the same sequence of numbers 07:45:03 emacsphan: Well, that's not surprising, given your previous result. 07:45:36 see 12.2.43 07:45:47 fusss: I think you mean *random-state* 07:46:16 ufff, yes, i had my words run into each other 07:47:31 emacsphan: An interesting test would be to do C-c C-k, then (random 10) "manually", then another C-c C-k. If the second one yields a different result, that would suggest that one of the functions used by C-c C-k does the equivalent of (let ((*random-state* *random-state*)) ...) 07:47:59 Ragnaroek [i=54a65cdd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8d0d5b05e32e003c] has joined #lisp 07:49:03 fusss: thanks for pointing that out, I see 07:49:08 beach: ok I'll try that 07:51:53 beach: if I do C-c C-k, then type (random 10) at the REPL, then do another C-c C-k, the results of both C-c C-k are the same. I always get different results at the REPL. So, if I want the random number generated by C-c C-k to change each time, I have to manually rebind *random-state*, right? 07:52:46 beach: is this what you meant by doing (random 10) manually? 07:52:51 one sec I am confused 07:53:00 emacsphan: Yes, that is what I meant. 07:53:06 beach: oh ok 07:53:45 emacsphan: So, that means that either compile-file or load or something like that is always done with the same *random-state*. 07:54:26 beach: right 07:54:48 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-131.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:55:18 -!- CrazyEddy [n=karyomit@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:56:42 Can subst take more than one new/old value at one ? 07:56:59 frank_s__ [n=FrankS@41.145.129.3] has joined #lisp 07:57:36 ok I figured out how to make a new random state at each execution, THANK YOU everyone for helping me to get to the bottom of this! I will paste the code if anyone is interested, thanks again 07:58:29 emacsphan annotated #78825 "making a new random state" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78825#2 07:58:34 CrazyEddy [n=moping@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 07:58:53 wow I was so confused by this problem now I get it what a relief 07:59:57 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:00:05 Congratz ;) 08:00:47 MrSpec: thanks 08:03:37 you can also do (let ((*random-state* (make-random-state t)) (my-try (random 10))) 08:04:25 special variables are "changed" by rebinding them emacsphan 08:05:11 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.251.31] has joined #lisp 08:06:29 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-202-234.netcologne.de] has quit [] 08:08:32 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:10:06 MrSpec pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78829 08:10:30 Could you take a look, Is it possible to correct it without recursion ? 08:10:43 fusss: I see, thanks 08:11:53 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.239.50] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:12:02 fusss: if I want a new seed every time I call RANDOM then would it be best to enclose my call to RANDOM in the LET statement you wrote above? 08:12:52 why would you want a new _seed_ every time you call random? 08:13:19 (I can think of a reason, but if you can't, you don't need one) 08:13:55 MrSpec, maybe by having a replace-letter-with-number function you can map onto your formula? 08:14:34 MrSpec: There is no way you are going to get three lines of output if you iterate 9 times. 08:14:48 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 08:15:33 replace-letter-with-number ? 08:16:09 beach: hmm so mayme I can iterate less times ? 08:16:09 -!- frank_s_ [n=FrankS@41.145.129.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:16:22 but I have to itearate over 2 listes 08:16:29 lists* 08:16:41 MrSpec, you'd have to write it yourself. (replace-letter-with-number x y s) => x==s => y, else s 08:16:56 Krystof: because I want RANDOM to generate different random numbers every time I execute the code 08:17:13 tic_: ahh I got it 08:17:33 emacsphan: that's not a reason to have a new seed every time you call random 08:17:42 MrSpec, and collect the result either with loop or push..reverse. or something. Like beach said, you can't get three lines from nine. 08:18:11 (defun foo () (random 2000)) (list (foo) (foo) (foo)) ; look, different random numbers every time 08:18:37 ok, I'll eat breakfast and try write it ;) 08:20:15 Krystof: well, what was confusing me originally was that every time I compile and execute the code you wrote I get the same numbers each time 08:20:45 Krystof: compile and execute with C-c C-k from within SLIME 08:22:01 ok, not me. What lisp implementation are you using? 08:22:10 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.248.223] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:22:31 Krystof: that's the thing, I am using Clozure CL and this seems to be a feature of this implementation 08:22:48 sounds like you should submit a bug report 08:24:35 Krystof: it's probably not a bug, just the binding of *random-state* is preserved over multiple executions in this implementation 08:24:41 no, that's not what is happening 08:24:54 and if it were, that would be an unbelievably serious bug 08:25:33 what is happening, I think, is that slime is spawning a thread to execute the compilation, and that thread is initialized with a deterministic random state 08:26:30 http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/changeset/11135 08:27:05 joachifm [n=joachim@193.157.244.29] has joined #lisp 08:27:58 (it's not actually changed in that changeset, it's just you can see what's happening) 08:30:38 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:32:34 drafael [n=tapio@118-92-204-230.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:33:53 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 08:34:53 what's the verdict on run-process? is it expected that if you call it repeatedly, eventually sbcl will segfault and die? 08:35:55 (on, say, an x86-64 linux machine with threads enabled) 08:37:10 -!- CrazyEddy [n=moping@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:39:28 ahh, what I needed was map function. Now it works. 08:41:44 CrazyEddy [n=panachur@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 08:43:06 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.13.204] has joined #lisp 08:43:21 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.13.204] has left #lisp 08:44:48 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 08:46:19 -!- emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 08:47:11 hefner: run-program? No. 08:48:25 I suppose I'll upgrade to sbcl 1.0.latest.ouch and see if it behaves any better. 08:52:45 Ogedei [n=user@g225075181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:52:55 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@116.18.148.80] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:55:54 seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 08:57:45 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:58:24 Is any version of MAP function which works on sublists ? 09:00:39 clhs maplist 09:00:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 09:01:01 -!- saikat [n=saikat@98.210.158.169] has quit [] 09:01:37 dwave [n=ask@212251240075.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 09:02:34 thanks 09:08:53 -!- Ogedei [n=user@g225075181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 09:15:31 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:17:21 soooo. I'm getting "dlopen: invalid caller" when running 0.9.8 and older on x86_64 debian lenny. 09:17:42 -!- wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 09:17:50 seems like libc decided to go binary-incompatible or something 09:18:59 (ah, heh. it's apparently trying to reopen shared objects which don't exist anymore. well...) 09:23:51 -!- seejay [n=seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:33:02 -!- drafael [n=tapio@118-92-204-230.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:38:30 elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:44:21 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:50:15 hefner: ISTR slyrus mentioning vagely similar issues on run-program-heavy code 09:55:37 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 10:00:38 sphex__ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 10:01:11 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 10:02:23 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:02:29 -!- hdfhefgaert43t is now known as holycow 10:02:47 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 10:04:19 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-30-175.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:04:48 Is there anyone who uses elephant? 10:04:57 Yes, there is. 10:06:40 pjb: I am using elephant with hunchentoot. Do I have to call close-store every time after processing a request? 10:06:51 pjb: I call open-store only once when I start a server. 10:07:15 I don't know, I'm not a user of elephant. 10:07:30 pjb: oh, you are not one, thanks. 10:07:34 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:08:04 So anyone else? I got a error like this "sorry, too many clients already has occurred.". 10:09:48 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-202-234.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:09:56 The author of Elephant must not be a native speaker of English. 10:10:22 namor [n=namor@dslb-088-074-054-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:49 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:11:11 It could also be a poetic error message. 10:12:39 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:12:47 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:13:52 Hmm, I get the error message "Don't know how to REQUIRE CL-NCURSES" when I load my .lisp file with sbcl manually. I can load the file from within slime without problems, though. Any ideas? 10:14:32 different search paths? 10:16:46 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:16:54 namor_ [n=namor@88.74.54.168] has joined #lisp 10:16:59 I'll try to check that. 10:18:47 ok, how do I find out? 10:19:15 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 10:22:32 -!- namor_ [n=namor@88.74.54.168] has quit ["Verlassend"] 10:25:50 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:28:32 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-67.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:30:27 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-30-175.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:32:19 YAY, it works! Adding a line 'require :asdf-install' solved it. (for some reason...) Does someone know why? 10:34:42 try (require :asdf) instead 10:35:15 that would be a reason --- asdf-install loads asdf 10:35:42 asdf alone didn't work.. 10:36:19 That was the non-working version: http://pastie.org/451288 10:38:33 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:39:37 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 10:39:45 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :cl-ncurses) instead of require 10:43:38 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-234-40.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:46:38 That works, thanks! 10:48:05 also require is evil in this case 10:48:47 in portability sense? 10:49:43 yes 10:50:29 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:50:48 younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 10:52:29 lichtblau: I'll work on named-readtables the two weeks comming to make a proper release out of it. How's your docstring markup going? 10:54:05 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:55:20 -!- plan9 [n=stian@arachnotron.sletner.com] has quit ["."] 10:55:57 milanj [n=milan@212.200.192.108] has joined #lisp 10:56:46 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-188-098-208-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:20 c|mell [n=cmell@x250041.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:05:16 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:05:54 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:08:50 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:13:25 _sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3D893.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:53 -!- deech [n=deech@71-10-166-226.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:17:14 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:31:56 deech [n=deech@71-10-166-226.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 11:34:46 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:39:37 -!- frank_s__ [n=FrankS@41.145.129.3] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:45:07 -!- bittin- [i=bittin@anapnea.net] has left #lisp 11:46:47 -!- namor [n=namor@dslb-088-074-054-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:54:27 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 11:56:39 myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-81-133.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 12:05:02 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:10:20 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 12:18:14 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:55 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:27:25 manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:27:25 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:27:36 are there more use cases for make-load-form besides the file compiler, really? 12:33:13 phromo [i=phromo@c-82cde455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:43:32 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:46:25 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 12:46:36 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:47:51 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@193.157.244.29] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:48:00 schme: long time no see! 12:48:37 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp025.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:51:04 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:51:14 beach: Hello beach. Yes. Three weeks or thereabouts. My initial plan was to take all of april off of the internet, but aaah. I needed some emergency help 'cause of some debian issues after my upgrade yesterday. So here I am. 12:51:19 What is new in lisp world? 12:52:04 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 12:52:45 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 12:57:18 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6BCEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:04 Dave Moon updated PLOT. 13:00:39 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:15 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:21 spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-35d59bb1f9874b76] has joined #lisp 13:01:31 deepfire: diff? 13:01:46 -!- spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-35d59bb1f9874b76] has left #lisp 13:02:17 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-134-131.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 13:02:58 michaelw, git://git.feelingofgreen.ru/plot has it 13:04:17 deepfire: "fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly" 13:05:12 deepfire: is that redmine running there? 13:05:19 michaelw, sorry, touched the export file, retry 13:05:27 michaelw, yes 13:08:40 -!- phromo [i=phromo@c-82cde455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )"] 13:08:55 the diffs are sort of useless unfortunately 13:09:14 nevermind, thanks anyway for providing it! 13:09:24 you have some other neat stuff there 13:09:24 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:09:47 schme: I am not following it very closely, but I have had a few days of great experience with McCLIM, and especially the listener. I have been working on software for analysing and synthesizing sound, and the combination of the listener and a stream window used for plotting is just great for that kind of interactive use. 13:10:12 beach: That sounds extremely interesting. with the sound stuff :) 13:11:51 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:58 deepfire: do you have any screenshots of alpine around? :) 13:12:02 yeah, sounds cool. do you have a screenshot of this? 13:12:54 -!- CrazyEddy [n=panachur@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:13:50 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:13:55 michaelw, not sure.. 13:16:15 dto3 [n=user@pool-98-118-1-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:57 michaelw: You could call make-load-form manually to migrate data to other processes, perhaps? 13:17:47 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:17:57 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 13:18:08 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 13:18:10 sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has joined #lisp 13:18:26 tcr: given the restrictions, I don't see that working too well, probably better to clone the functionality and have essientially full control, no? 13:19:14 so I've heard a lot of people say that you should work with list in an image mindset, and not really bother with files, and such 13:19:20 schme: Yeah, I think I am about to invent a very fast method for synthesis. 13:19:28 CrazyEddy [n=directne@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 13:19:33 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-67.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:19:39 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@94-224-246-148.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 13:19:44 beach: neat! 13:19:52 beach: patent it! 13:19:53 :) 13:20:08 *lisp 13:20:17 schme: I don't like software patents. I'll publish it instead. 13:20:31 sohum: Who told you that? 13:20:35 sohum: who suggested that? 13:20:41 beach: Even nicer. I'm very fond of synthesising sound :) 13:20:50 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.192.108] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:21:41 schme: We are working on methods allowing us to synthesize millions of simultaneous oscillators in real time. 13:21:45 maybe I'm mischaracterising? but the idea of treating the image as defacto is all over c.l.l, afaics 13:22:27 sohum: saving images is not the same as abandoning source files 13:22:27 sohum: c.l.l is not a very good reference. 13:22:50 beach: oh? 13:23:06 that's more of a Smalltalk/Self mindset 13:23:25 beach: That's really impressive. Maybe you will be the death of hardware synths. 13:23:27 sohum: Lots of people hang out there, such as the frog guy, who sometimes don't know what they are talking about. 13:23:33 beach: If so I will have to go kill you, sorry :( 13:23:41 michaelw: so do you, say, restart your lisp image often to clear it out? 13:23:45 beach: seriously though. That's amazing :) 13:23:47 schme: Why is that? 13:23:47 beach: hmm. fair enough. 13:24:10 sohum: no, I say that abandoning source files is likely not such a hot idae 13:24:54 schme: are you particularly attached to hardware synthesizers? 13:25:01 beach: I'm very fond of hardware synths, if you are the cause of their death because of this very impressive thing .. well.. you have to go, sorry :) 13:25:15 hmm, OK. 13:25:15 beach: Indeed! (: 13:25:36 michaelw: I'm trying to understand what the usual devcycle is. if you keep your files as your basis, then how do you deal with the cruft a lisp image accumulates while you're using it for testing? 13:25:48 I must admit that soft ones have some *minor* benefits. But it's evil, just plain evil. 13:26:26 schme: I sold my Korg a few years back and bought a MIDI master keyboard instead :) 13:26:59 beach: Well midi master keyboard is a good idea too. You just need to have hardware synths that you control with 'em ;) 13:27:31 sohum: most of the time I nuke a single package if I want to restart fresh. I am doing that after bigger refactorings of code. small things (like removing a method, unbinding a function, etc., can be done in-place. 13:27:39 schme: Actually, somewhere in a closet I probably have a *very* old Roland synth (without a keyboard). 13:28:33 michaelw: that makes sense 13:28:35 thankee 13:29:00 sohum: it's seldom that I have to restart a lisp, this I mostly do to ensure that everything compiles from scratch, and I didn't forgot to include code in the scratch buffer or repl 13:29:07 beach: So you're using lisp + clim for all these oscillators? 13:29:35 beach: I have imagined clim was very nice for modelling soft synths.. just the RT issue kills me :) 13:30:04 michaelw: yepyep. what happens if there's a substantial bit of code that you'd input in the repl that you /did/ forget? 13:30:31 sohum: no idea, I am not putting substantial amounts of code in the repl 13:30:39 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:31:10 sohum: you usually do not do that. you put the code in a file and tell slime to do compilation, etc for you. 13:31:21 schme: Well, this is preliminary research. But yeah, it would be nice to use Common Lisp for the final product as well. Then again, I am not likely to be the one coding the final product. 13:31:30 michaelw, hypno: fair enough. 13:32:12 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 13:32:16 beach: I'm just blown away by the million oscillators there. Do you not need some quad core insane CPU for it? 13:32:29 sohum: I build a .core file containing most stuff that I don't modify very often, such as McCLIM, Climacs, etc. But stuff that I am working on I load with asdf. 13:33:15 yep, same here 13:33:42 schme: Actually, if it weren't for changing parameters (frequency, amplitude), you only need one multiplication and two additions per oscillator, so on a fairly basic CPU, you could probably get 100M such simple oscillators. 13:34:30 beach: I'd love to see one of those 40core forth CPUs abused for this thing :) 13:34:43 sohum: ime, there is pretty few things to watch out for. keep it straight with packages, and it's also good to know that you might have to recompile functions that depend on macros you've changed/updated depending on implementation. this has bitten me a few times in the past. :) 13:34:51 -!- sphex__ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:35:24 hypno: heh, fair enough. 13:36:22 on the note of packages, do yall have a packages.lisp and keep the packages separate from the core files in any project? because I've had that recommended to be, and it's been annoying at times 13:37:00 yes a packages.lisp file 13:37:37 younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 13:37:51 schme: The offices at work are organized around a 3-floor atrium and my dream is to put each instrument of a symphony orchestra playing Bolero on a different office computer and then listen to it from the middle of the atrium. 13:38:37 schme: I think it would be a great demo when there are important people visiting. 13:39:30 sounds mindblowing (: 13:41:11 *_3b* wonders if it would be easier to use a wii remote or a camera as input device for the conductor 13:42:26 <_3b> or i suppose, a wii remote used as a camera 13:42:31 at my former workplace the HCI group was experimenting with a "Virtual Orchestra" which you could conduct with a remote 13:43:32 they coupled it to a video, where the orchestra would stand up and yell at you if you'd be too grossly out of rhythm :) 13:44:08 <_3b> yeah, neither strategy would be particularly pushing the state of the art, at the input device level, but still have to either find libraries or write code :) 13:50:06 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.10.22] has joined #lisp 13:50:32 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:51:04 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:51:18 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:51:24 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.10.22] has left #lisp 13:53:00 I cooked up a thing to avoid restarting the lisp, instead deleting packages and reloading those downstream modules that are known to be loaded. 13:53:46 -!- manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:54:42 All you need is to add a single form to describe the module -- its dependencies on other modules and packages it "owns", and then call (reload-reloadable :foo) when you need it. 13:57:22 "Module" meaning an ASDF system. 13:59:45 b3nt_pin [n=beagles@stjhnf0140w-142162084223.pppoe-dynamic.nl.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:48 1. obtain the root set of packages to delete from reloadable description, 2. compute the reverse topologically sorted list of the complete package set to delete, 3. delete, 4. compute the topo-sorted set of ASDF systems to reload, 5. reload 14:00:02 ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 14:00:07 -!- b3nt_pin [n=beagles@stjhnf0140w-142162084223.pppoe-dynamic.nl.aliant.net] has left #lisp 14:00:22 legumbre` [n=user@r190-135-55-163.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:01:56 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 14:02:11 2.5 warn if some packages to be deleted are not claimed by downstream modules, as they probably will not be reloaded 14:03:16 I wonder, though, how clean a slate one gets that way. 14:03:43 ROOM in SBCL told me it's apparently leaking memory like mad. 14:04:09 If I disable package deletion, it decreases drastically. 14:06:01 -!- Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:07:40 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-122-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:07:59 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-122-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:08:39 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-73-126.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:09:13 mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075595pcs.unl.edu] has joined #lisp 14:10:58 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-122-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:11:57 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp025.studby.uio.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:15:06 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:15:48 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@94-224-246-148.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 14:16:13 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-134-131.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 14:16:18 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 14:17:20 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-14-175.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:18:52 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 14:25:43 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:37 danlei [n=user@pD9E2CE59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:38 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:31:13 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:31:32 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 14:31:51 deepfire: deleting a package does not automatically delete all the symbols in it ("deleting" a symbol is not well-defined anyway) 14:32:24 deepfire: In particular, it won't delete stuff held up in caches or elsewhere, like classes or methods 14:33:07 To me it sounds, you really want restart-inferior-lisp, and to make the restart fast you want your stuff to be saved in an image 14:35:26 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177076196.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 tcr, I see.. lossage. 14:36:25 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:36:36 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 14:36:47 'morning 14:37:27 Adrinael [i=adrinael@rid7.kyla.fi] has joined #lisp 14:38:18 not to sound like a broken record....anyone have elephant running on os x with a bdb store? 14:38:18 Beket [n=stathis@adsl-248-173.diodos.auth.gr] has joined #lisp 14:40:18 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 14:40:23 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:52:00 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:53:42 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:01:07 anyone here with inspiration for me? I'm one step short of finishing this wretched repeatable build 15:01:53 Krystof: http://s3.amazonaws.com/best_bucket/hang_in_there_kitty.jpg 15:02:34 jlf` [n=user@adsl-99-137-140-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:33 ah, no, it's actually technical inspiration I'm after 15:04:03 Krystof: haha ah my bad 15:05:12 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has joined #lisp 15:05:22 it was a thinly-veiled attempt at summoning someone, probably jsnell, who can cut through my lack of options to show me something obvious I've forgotten 15:05:24 wow about time, I think that restart conditions, binds, etc, are finally starting to fully click. 15:06:19 Krystof: I'm probably about as good as a cardboard jsnell. 15:06:20 Krystof: hmmm fair enough. Most kittens are faily weak when it comes to lisp. 15:06:55 pkhuong: let's see how far it goes. 15:07:28 http://rvw.doc.gold.ac.uk/sullivan/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=sbcl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7af2f514d35461377b35f0068a88ea24db7af799;hp=b61e9871e2ceb376a33a3b67ef7e19faac3e98d5 15:07:39 the issue is in dealing with the regressions caused by this patch 15:07:44 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-188-098-208-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:08:07 which basically are that every function in the image is considered to have been compiled at universal-time 0 from sources created at universal-time 0 15:09:01 this is mostly cosmetic, but the debugger and its source location logic actually uses the sources-created-at time 15:09:28 Krystof: what for ? 15:09:46 to decide whether it can zap straight to the character position in a source file, or whether it has to engage in heuristics 15:10:45 my ideal solution would be to patch all the debug-source structures in question in cold-init, but I can't for the life of me work out a nice way of getting a handle on the debug-source structures 15:10:47 *mcspiff* is getting really sick of beating his head against this elephant... 15:11:00 they're dumped in a magical way, in fasl-dump-source-info 15:11:41 <_3b> would using the file time instead of 0 not be repeatable enough? 15:11:47 so, what's the issue? 15:12:49 _3b: I would like that the same sources produce the same fasls and cold core independent of filesystem metadata 15:14:00 pkhuong: well, I can't work out how to do it :-) 15:14:52 ok, so some debug-source structs leak through? 15:15:34 hm? No, they all end up shared between all the debug-info structures in code objects 15:16:30 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:16:40 even fresh functions. Wow. 15:17:09 dumb question...how do i force the generation of fasl? 15:19:35 using compile-file 15:19:42 pjb: thanks 15:20:06 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:26:23 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 15:27:40 Krystof: have you tried restoring the slots' values once the debug-source's been dumped? There might be a weird issue with reuse and magic constants deep in there. 15:29:24 hm, I'm not explaining the issue properly 15:29:31 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 15:29:46 I can get the slots' values; the problem is that they depend on the time that the sources are compiled and the time that a tarball (say) was unpacked 15:30:07 so I want to set the slots values to what they should be, but only after cold-sbcl.core has already been created -- i.e. in cold-init 15:32:43 oh, ok. 15:36:39 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:37:13 Would this work: fasl-dump-source-info dumps cleared out info, then fop-funcall a function to fix them back in, and the rest as usual? 15:39:03 erh, wait. that's too early. 15:40:08 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-9-93.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:41:17 TDT pasted "Progn syntax?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78839 15:41:18 how about using the file modification time for both *-created and *-compiled? gets repeatable compiles from the same tree, though not necessarily from separate trees 15:42:02 With progn, I thought that for the most part that it should evaluate every form, and return the value of the last result. But, with format t, it seems to want to only evaluate the first, and leave the rest. 15:42:29 jsnell: I'll do that if my current attempt doesn't work or is deemed too horrible 15:42:34 When compiling I get the "deleting unreachable code" portion of it, and running it shows exactly that. 15:42:48 TDT: you signal an error in the second format 15:42:57 made up a new FOP-NOTE-DEBUG-SOURCE which I can use in genesis to build a list of debug-sources that need to be patched 15:43:10 Krystof: no ugly map-allocated-object? :) 15:43:22 stassats`: Yeah, that's on purpose, still working on the whole handler/restart binding stuff right now 15:43:37 stassats`: progn doesn't ever reach that though, for some reason. 15:43:43 pkhuong: hah, I'm not _that_ far gone 15:43:56 TDT: how do you tell? 15:43:56 <_3b> TDT: error doesn't return 15:45:00 stassats`: Because if it did, it would trigger the restart bind (this is only a very small part of the full script), and it also doesn't display the format after that. I can paste the entire script (annotated) to show all I'm trying to do. 15:45:24 you better do 15:45:26 Krystof: I'd reason that anybody getting the sources using a sensible method is going to get the right timestamps, so it's ok to use them 15:45:45 <_3b> TDT: you seem to be confused about where the restart would return to 15:46:01 TDT annotated #78839 "full script" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78839#1 15:47:26 <_3b> TDT: try printing something in the restarts, and after the restart-case and handler-bind 15:48:06 k, will try that now. 15:48:40 it returns 0, isn't that what you want? 15:48:59 <_3b> stassats`: i think he expects the (error ...) to return 0 15:49:30 Yeah, I do, which I want to send to the output line 15:49:55 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177076196.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:50:09 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 15:50:25 <_3b> you need the restart inside the (format ...) call then 15:50:28 so something like: "Throwing error.. val? 0" 15:50:48 <_3b> or maybe use cerror instead, once you've finished experimenting 15:51:54 so progn is working right, the error message didn't really help much, the format t worked. I don't know much about cerror and will have to loook at that. 15:53:34 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:54:41 So to understand what's kinda going on correctly - the progn does execute, well to a degree, but since nothing is returned from the error, it won't finish executing the format part of that? 15:55:09 <_3b> error doesn't return, as opposed to returning nothing, but yes 15:55:13 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:55:24 <_3b> (values) would return nothing 15:56:47 <_3b> the restart-case form should return 0, instead of the result of the last (format ...) you would have gotten without the error 15:58:20 Ohhh ok, so when the restart case is hits, it does the restart and the value returned from that is what is returned by the restart-case thus why the rest of te formats don't execute. 16:00:16 <_3b> right 16:01:20 when I put (declare (optimize (speed 0))) In the top of my file I got compilation error, How should I use this optimize then? 16:01:33 use declaim 16:01:42 <_3b> declare is for inside forms, use declaim or proclaim at the top level 16:01:44 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-233-254.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 16:01:47 stassats` is wise 16:01:54 ah, ok 16:01:59 yeah, prepare to have your mind blown 16:02:08 the (declare ...) form is *not* an expression 16:02:10 spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@117.192.11.39] has joined #lisp 16:02:13 and not proclaim on its own 16:02:24 -!- spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@117.192.11.39] has left #lisp 16:02:40 <_3b> yeah, you probably don't really want proclaim 16:03:36 TDT annotated #78839 "fixed runme" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78839#2 16:04:02 <_3b> and to clarify, declare is for inside /specific/ forms, in the specific place specified for that form 16:04:13 it is possible to turn off any errors during running program ? 16:04:26 what do you mean, "turn off"? 16:04:31 This makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for the help, been the most confusing topic for me so far :) 16:05:13 My program, read data from standard io, so when someone put wrong data there can be error 16:05:24 like nil is not number 16:05:43 check your data 16:05:46 <_3b> TDT: if you think about it, you wouldn't want any random calling code to be able to override your error handling, but it can give itself a chance to try calling your code again with better arguments if it wants to 16:05:57 MrSpec: then you might want to handle errors around the reading, yes 16:05:59 How do you get the arguments from the command line? 16:06:16 stassats`: without this, there can be too much errors to handle 16:06:17 bgs100: implementation dependant 16:06:26 <_3b> TDT: or if there are obvious ways to handle the error within your code, youc an make those options available yourself 16:06:30 MrSpec: It is a *very* bad idea to program that way. Pretending that everything is fine without making this known to the user is *much* worse than to signal a condition. 16:06:33 stassats`, sbcl 16:06:45 _3b: *nod* yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think that's the next time I need to try doing is wrapping this up in a function and let it call itself with better arguments again to see how that works. 16:06:55 bgs100: sb-ext:*posix-argv* 16:06:59 -!- mjonsson [n=mjonsson@66-234-42-75.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:07:32 stassats`, thanks 16:07:34 beach: yeah, I have a lot of errors handled, but I'd like to be sure user won't see anything. 16:08:02 you might want to disable the debugger instead 16:08:12 MrSpec: But why does the error occur? 16:08:31 error i mean backtrace 16:08:38 stassats`, is there anything similar to python's optparse? 16:08:48 I am not sure how to name it correctly. 16:08:54 bbl 16:09:00 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["DON'T PANIC!"] 16:09:07 Krystof: yeah, how can I disable debugger ? 16:09:37 --disable-debugger 16:09:48 (sb-ext:disable-debugger) 16:09:53 or bind something to *debugger-hook* 16:09:55 matt0 [n=matt0@60.226.3.65] has joined #lisp 16:10:01 MrSpec: If this error occurs because of something that the user cannot control, then fix the origin of the problem. If it is because of something the user supplied, but that was incorrect in some way, hiding this fact is a *very* bad idea. 16:10:02 oki. I'll try it 16:10:17 How Would I go about writing a list to a file? 16:10:30 matt0: open file, print list 16:10:31 matt0: (print list stream) 16:10:37 clhs w-o-f 16:10:37 WITH-OPEN-FILE: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_open.htm 16:10:43 I might appreciate apps dropping to a debugger, CL-style. I can't count the number of times I've resorted to using strace and ltrace to debug why some program doesn't work. 16:11:40 beach: I have to write program which solve equations, when user give it correct data. In other case, I should just print "error". 16:12:04 MrSpec: Then you just catch the condition and write "error". 16:12:05 as it is "the faster program, the better" I thought I can handle all error at once 16:12:12 Can someone give me working code? 16:12:12 errors* 16:12:15 please 16:12:27 hefner: apache is awful that way. when it isn't working, there's almost never any relevant info as to why w/out using ltrace and strace. 16:12:42 matt0: (with-open-file (stream "file" :direction :output) (print list stream)) 16:12:59 hefner: Yeah, I would much rather get suggested restarts than the violent crashes that Firefox gives me. 16:13:54 beach, Thankyou good sir ;) 16:13:58 -!- matt0 [n=matt0@60.226.3.65] has quit [Client Quit] 16:14:09 hmm, no I can see "unhandled condition in --disable-debugger mode, quitting" 16:14:46 at least disabling ldb is often useful 16:15:30 ldb ? 16:15:44 ahh lisp debugger ? 16:15:46 low-level debugger 16:16:09 so is there something else I can disable ? 16:17:15 you can write your own debugger-hook which quits silently 16:17:17 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:17:29 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 16:17:46 disabling the debugger for a long running server process is one thing, but it seems like a bad idea for a system that will be reading inputs from Joe Random Luser. 16:17:52 to replicate that "mysterious crash" behaviour found in all sorts of other environments 16:17:53 then you'll have to silent complaining users 16:18:34 Krystof: how can I write this ? what functions ? 16:18:49 I'd like to handle all error and just print "error" 16:19:02 _that_ is done by a handler 16:19:14 handler-case ? 16:19:15 that handles all conditions of class error and prints "error" 16:19:39 it is ? 16:19:45 On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 05:17:46 PM NIL it was compiled from: 16:19:45 SYS:SRC;CODE;TIME.LISP 16:19:45 Created: Saturday, March 28, 2009 09:00:09 PM [+0] 16:19:47 yay 16:19:55 *Krystof* goes for overcomplicated solutions 16:20:13 (handler-case (eval (read-from-string "fdfdffdf:fdfdf")) (error (error) error)) 16:21:40 MrSpec: have you looked at chapter 19 in Practical Common Lisp? 16:21:53 no, but I will :) 16:22:02 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-exception-handling-conditions-and-restarts.html 16:22:13 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:22:48 thanks 16:24:42 matt0 [n=matt0@CPE-60-226-3-65.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 16:25:35 -!- matt0 [n=matt0@CPE-60-226-3-65.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:40 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:28:25 mikesch_ [n=axel@cable-195-14-198-142.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:29:38 handler-case works perfectly :D Thanks guys for help! (again) 16:29:43 petition add jfgi command to minion 16:29:43 dang this restart handler stuff is awesome 16:29:49 MrSpec: There's another thing that's really helpful...chapter 19 didn't help me much, but this link with that chapter did..one sec 16:30:17 MrSpec: http://paste.lisp.org/display/78371 16:30:49 thx TDT 16:31:37 np, awesome example in my opinion, and what I based some stuff over later. 16:32:03 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 16:32:25 I really like lisp :D and hate Icon language :[ 16:33:39 yes, you can send code to a repl and such 16:35:55 lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-234-40.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 16:36:33 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-202-234.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:40:39 -!- Beket [n=stathis@adsl-248-173.diodos.auth.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:41:24 happycodemonkey [n=codemonk@147.226.102.43] has joined #lisp 16:44:56 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-142.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:45:05 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-138-131.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:45:21 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-142.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:38 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fae34b3738cef9e6] has joined #lisp 16:45:43 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-94.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:45:50 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-188-098-208-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:20 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fae34b3738cef9e6] has left #lisp 16:46:41 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:47:37 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 16:47:58 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-142-251.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:49:05 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 16:49:55 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 16:50:30 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:53:39 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-93.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 16:54:55 I still need to figure out a good place to use lisp in real life, heh...most of the stuff I'm doing now is just trying new stuff, but I haven't built anything really that I could use yet :-/ 16:55:50 are you building that in another language? 16:56:25 Stuff I'm working on tends to be more in Python, yeah, at least at the moment. 16:56:50 I'm hoping to integrate the two to a degree sometime - there's some data mining stuff with orange that I find helpful, but haven't found much data mining related with lisp yet. 16:57:35 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-188-098-208-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:58:36 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-188-098-208-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:34 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:37 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-138-131.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:03:58 jsnell: worked first time for me 17:04:02 which must be some kind of omen 17:05:25 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-154-11-184.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:51 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.161.91] has quit ["Out of town for a couple of weeks"] 17:17:16 lisp made me a song. it has a source code. would someone like to hear it? 17:18:00 hefner: sure, why not. 17:18:04 Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-10-136.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:18:26 http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/misc/electroweak.mp3 17:19:04 asian psychedelia. 17:19:24 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 17:19:40 hefner: not bad! 17:19:40 alec [n=alec@pool-96-233-16-99.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:13 hefner: is the system you used like impromptu? 17:20:15 -!- dwave [n=ask@212251240075.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:21:00 crod [n=cmell@x250010.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 17:21:00 hefner: how was it made? 17:21:10 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250041.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:21:22 sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3E402.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:00 -!- _sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3D893.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:22:01 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:33 netbar: you have alsa ? 17:22:38 sorry 17:22:42 wrong channel 17:22:43 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:48 Fade: not sure how you mean. it's generated by building random patterns of notes drawn from pentatonic scales. the progression of roots and scales and scripted, and there's preset patterns of note density to provide rhythmic variation, and then the notes are chosen randomly. 17:23:03 (and then I do the synthesis in lisp do) 17:23:41 http://impromptu.moso.com.au/manual.html 17:23:52 hefner: I like it! 17:23:54 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:23:58 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:24:11 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 17:24:16 -!- vng [n=vuong@222.253.110.249] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:25:13 there's a system similar to impromptu which isn't bound to OSX called 'fluxus', but I haven't been able to get it to build. 17:26:11 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:26:17 jbmigel [n=jbm@S010600179a220e57.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:25 That's a really nice ambient tune thingie 17:26:29 hefner pasted "song source code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78845 17:26:37 mjonsson [n=mjonsson@66-234-42-75.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:38 -!- Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-10-136.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:28:23 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:28:39 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6BCEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 17:28:40 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-80-142.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:28:52 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 17:28:57 Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-10-136.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:28:59 hmm, interesting 17:29:33 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 17:29:35 when I M-. on a cl-cont transformed function, I get Unhandled memory fault at #x8046908. 17:29:35 [Condition of type SB-SYS:MEMORY-FAULT-ERROR] 17:30:07 any idea what to do with that to make it into a useful bug report? 17:31:10 -!- Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-10-136.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:31:54 <_3b> isolate which parts of cl-cont and M-. are required to cause the error? 17:32:26 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:32:27 -!- jlf` [n=user@adsl-99-137-140-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:32:41 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:32:56 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:36 does (sb-introspect:find-definition-sources-by-name function :function) cause the error? 17:33:59 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:35:36 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:33 -!- happycodemonkey [n=codemonk@147.226.102.43] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:37:59 ejs [n=eugen@235-159-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:17 _3b: not as easy as it sounds, I get it while working on weblocks 17:39:23 stassats`: sec, lemme check 17:39:55 stassats`: yup 17:40:04 <_3b> mathrick: does it not happen if you use cl-cont separately? 17:40:15 _3b: dunno, I'll try 17:41:20 k101 [n=k101@ABordeaux-753-1-10-136.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:42:23 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:42:34 yep, every DEFUN/CC results in a memory fault when I try to find its source 17:43:06 -!- k101 [n=k101@ABordeaux-753-1-10-136.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:43:35 <_3b> in that case, i'd look at defun/cc and start trying parts of it by hand, and see how much can be removed or hard coded 17:44:41 hefner: You generate sound using our inverse FFT? 17:44:59 k101 [n=k101@ABordeaux-753-1-10-136.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:45:18 -!- k101 [n=k101@ABordeaux-753-1-10-136.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 17:45:40 beach: no, that's just for adding the reverb. the instrument sound comes from the function SYN, and just feeds noise into delay lines. 17:45:55 well, I guess you could call that generating sound. 17:45:57 Ah, OK. 17:46:34 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 17:46:54 hefner: The code is impressively short, given the nice result. 17:47:02 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:06 Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-10-136.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:47:30 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@94-224-246-148.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:48:05 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[away] 17:48:56 Pandala: Working on the project? 17:49:27 beach: The FFT code is short? 17:49:49 Quadrescence: No, I was referring to hefner's code for generating music. 17:49:53 Oh. 17:50:33 Is the FFT code within arm's reach? 17:50:49 Quadrescence: Sure. 17:51:33 Quadrescence: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/fft.lisp 17:51:39 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:52:18 Quadrescence: I have done better versions than that, but I guess I lost them. I often count on students to keep the latest versions, but in this case I guess it didn't work. 17:52:33 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 17:53:11 Quadrescence: Oh, and I think hefner improved it in some ways. 17:54:02 my version lives at http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/hacks/transcription/fft.lisp and adds a few little things 17:54:06 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:54:32 <_3b> mathrick: seems to be setfing (fdefinition ...) to a funcallable instance is the problem 17:57:46 _3b: cool, thanks for debugging that 17:57:57 care to write up a real bug report? 17:58:08 <_3b> hmm, or maybe not, looks like my test was missing a piece 17:58:51 <_3b> or rather my fix for the missing piece was broken :) 17:59:39 nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-64-203.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:00:22 If someone wants to write a very good FFT in Lisp, I have some advice to give. I think it would be great to have one of the best FFT implementations around, and all in Lisp. 18:00:52 what is the current state of the art? 18:00:53 _3b pasted "does this give same error?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78848 18:01:01 <_3b> mathrick: try that ^ 18:01:05 Fade: radix sqrt(n). 18:01:25 what are your ideas? 18:01:36 <_3b> mathrick: M-. on the (foo) call that is, or the (sb-introspect ...) part 18:01:58 For instance, if a bit-reversal algorithm is called for, I have the current world record, and it is 5 times faster than the previously known one. But this result dates back a decade or so. 18:02:16 beach: A brain dump might be interesting, in a couple weeks. 18:02:25 pkhuong: Deal! 18:02:55 Fade: Specialization of very small problems, radix sqrt(n), fast shuffle, that kind of stuff. 18:03:08 -!- mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075595pcs.unl.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:03:26 *nod* 18:03:36 dump it all in a text file with some refs, I'll probably play with the problem this summer. 18:04:03 pkhuong: OK, that seems reasonable. 18:04:03 A PhD student at the U is working on a sparse rational simplex in SBCL. 18:04:17 I *want* it! 18:05:57 _3b: yup, does the same 18:06:09 <_3b> mathrick: are you using old sbcl? 18:06:15 _3b: except that the FUNCTION slot clashes with the CL-defined FUNCTION 18:06:19 1.0.21 18:06:23 dunno if that's old 18:06:40 We've both been really short on time lately (he just passed his pre-doctoral exams). IIUC, it's currently functional, but we still have to figure out how to make it fast (and not use too much memory) 18:06:58 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-233.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:07:38 _3b: reproduced on 1.0.27.9 18:08:06 <_3b> ok, probably just platform differences or different random junk in ram giving me a different error 18:08:28 milanj [n=milan@79.101.204.50] has joined #lisp 18:08:52 *_3b* gets a type-error, # is not of type sb-kernel:code-component 18:09:00 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a65cdd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8d0d5b05e32e003c] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:09:00 _3b: x86-32 here 18:09:05 pkhuong: If it turns out OK, I'll use it in Gsharp. 18:09:25 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:09:26 x86-64 linux here 18:09:49 pkhuong: And I have wanted to implement the Auckland Layout Model (which is based on linear programming) in McCLIM. 18:10:04 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 18:10:11 <_3b> mathrick: i'll let you report it, i tend to put off that sort of thing and forget about it :) 18:10:24 Ragnaroek [i=54a647cf@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f773d9656fc3a9da] has joined #lisp 18:10:25 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.204.50] has quit [Client Quit] 18:10:56 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@213.98.123.31] has joined #lisp 18:12:24 <_3b> mathrick: also, you can provide a full example with cl-cont in case someone wants to verify a fix on the real code or whatever 18:13:29 beach: is radix sqrt(n) the complexity? And if so, how do you interpret radix? 18:13:38 *mathrick* isn't familiar with such a function 18:13:59 _3b: æh, I forget about that too :) 18:14:53 mathrick: No, in the FFT domain we talk about the radix, which is essentially the number of sub-problems we recursively divide a subproblem into. The traditional iterative algorithm is radix 2, and there are some radix 4 algorithms, that are slightly better. 18:15:03 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D292.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:29 mathrick: But it is best to divide it into sqrt(n) problems of size sqrt(n), but that gets tricky, because you have to use recursion. 18:16:08 mathrick: Since most people who implemented the FFT are signal processors, they really don't know how to deal with recusion, and/or, they are convinced that it is slow. 18:16:28 mathrick: ... Not many implementations using that radix exist. 18:16:32 That is a real issue? Really? 18:16:42 (the signal processing people) 18:17:05 tic_: Yes, that's how I beat the previous bit-reversal record by a factor 5. 18:17:41 beach, surely someone who knows their way around complex mathematical formulaes should be able to grasp the simple concept of recursion? 18:18:11 tic_: (non-tail) recursion and hardware don't go together. 18:18:15 tic_: Yes, but they don't know how to take advantage of it in a real implementation. 18:18:38 pkhuong, indeed. 18:18:51 tic_: Plus, they often use Fortran, and they are convinced that recursion is slow. 18:18:57 beach, real implementation as in a compiler smart enough to do tail-call optimization? 18:19:03 beach: ah, I see 18:19:11 thanks for that bit of knowledge 18:19:25 tic_: no, I am not talking tail recursion here. Real recursion. 18:19:40 mathrick: Sure, no problem. 18:20:53 mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075595pcs.unl.edu] has joined #lisp 18:21:37 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:22:57 tic_: for instance, my better bit-reversal algorithm is recursive, but keeps everyhing in registers, so it is very fast on modern hardware, whereas any algorithm that has to test a condition loses. And this is likely to be even more true in the future. 18:23:53 beach, I see. Thanks for sharing. That is indeed a concern - while you program in a high-level language, there is still a CPU underneath that is very much low-level. 18:24:15 pkhuong annotated #78848 "Fix?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78848#1 18:24:31 tic_: Oh, definitely. This is the basis of my new algorithms course here in Bordeaux. 18:24:41 That sounds like a smashing course. 18:24:51 schme: I like it myself. 18:25:03 I'm sure I'd love it. 18:25:05 Cool. 18:25:32 Is there any good litterature on these things? 18:25:35 schme: Do you read French? One of my students last year took very detailed notes and published them on the web. 18:25:41 Yup. 18:25:48 schme: hold on... 18:25:56 sohum_ [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has joined #lisp 18:26:02 If you share the url I might forgive you for killing of the hardware synth. 18:26:32 schme, you read French? you need to make subtitles for Les Mondes Engloutis for me! :-) 18:26:56 tic_: I actually took a year of french at lunds university even. 18:26:56 schme: http://picaudmathieu.free.fr/cours/algo3/Cours.pdf 18:27:23 schme: I am afraid the litterature is non-existing, which is why I am writing a book. 18:27:32 ahaaa. 18:27:34 cools. 18:27:38 Is it done yet? 18:27:43 schme: nope 18:27:54 tic_: What is that though? Les Mondes Engloutis ? 18:28:07 schme, "Spartakus and The Sun Beneath The Sea" is the English name 18:28:26 mathrick: can you test your bug with the suggested fix to sb-introspect? 18:29:09 schme: There are quite a few errors and typos, but I'll be happy to answer questions. 18:29:35 schme: Also, if you pay attention, you'll find that the first half or so leads up to my flexichain implementation. 18:30:00 schme: And the rest is about a planned improvement of the buffer implementation of Climacs. 18:30:13 I need to print this out. 18:30:17 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f51d1.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 18:30:22 pkhuong: works for me 18:30:24 schme: People like me have to profit from a result in one domain to avoid work in another. 18:30:56 (: 18:31:09 schme: I'll even share the book with you if you promise not to distribute. 18:31:42 yikes. That'd be oh so cool. 18:32:11 pkhuong: oh, sorry, I missed that 18:32:13 When is the planned release date for it anyway? 18:32:28 If it is good I'll buy it anyway. I like books. 18:32:48 you should still report the bug. There 18:32:53 schme: Well, my co-author is not as efficient as I had hoped so I can't give a date. 18:32:55 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:24 may be a better fix, and I'm juggling too many things for now. 18:34:34 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 18:34:57 schme: The algorithmic language is a cross between Python and Lisp 18:35:08 pkhuong: works nicely 18:36:05 glacius [n=gmh@c-76-109-217-81.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:28 hi guys anyone no how to resolve this error ASDF-INSTALL::KEY-NOT-TRUSTED 18:37:06 glacius: meet the author, check the fingerprint, trust the key. 18:37:38 glacius: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_of_trust 18:37:54 pjb: Iam brand new at this i am trying to install clx on an arch system to get stumpwm installed 18:38:23 glacius: or choose the "skip check" restart :) 18:38:25 glacius: then perhaps you don't care, just select the right restart. 18:38:55 pjb: It just exits no restarts nothing 18:38:59 jsnell: heh, did you know that http://git.boinkor.net/gitweb/sbcl.git?a=commit;h=ee41b142b86e50983bd885141eaf2ede02815000 also fixes SBCL's runability on x86-64 debian lenny? (-: 18:39:26 <_3b> glacius: don't use broken lisps then (or don't use linuxes that ship broken lisps :) 18:40:02 jsnell: strangely enough, you get a debugger (without restarts) saying "dlopen: Invalid caller" on startup, when it reloads shared objects 18:40:13 <_3b> glacius: also, complain to your linux vendor for breaking it 18:40:21 I guess the newer libc is really strict about its ABI conventions (: 18:40:40 antifuchs: or GCC. 18:40:41 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:44 pjb: its archlinux 18:41:02 pkhuong: I'm getting this with binaries I built ages ago 18:41:23 unless I missed something and gcc is involved in the runtime now (: 18:41:31 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:34 antifuchs: gcc is involved in building libc ;) 18:41:39 ah, haha 18:41:42 that makes sense (: 18:42:41 well, it makes me sad, because it means no bisection on x86-64 past 0.9.8.47. 18:43:06 hm. in a debian etch chroot maybe. 18:43:11 hrmmm. 18:43:21 antifuchs: you can patch older versions with the 0.9.8.47 upon bisecting to them 18:43:58 well, I have to have a version that can build it, first (-: 18:44:11 hm, x86 xcompile maybe. hmm. 18:44:49 dunno, I think the chroot would be cleaner, especially as I wouldn't have to rebuild 88-something versions that I have as binaries already 18:45:06 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 18:45:13 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 18:46:50 pjb pasted "untrusted key example" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78849 18:46:56 <_3b> glacius: (in case it wasn't clear, you should download a binary from sbcl.org instead of using sbcl from archlinux) 18:47:15 <_3b> pjb: archlinux ships sbcl with debugger disabled 18:47:47 _3b: this seems pretty useless (: 18:47:53 glacius: Have a look at the "untrusted key example" paste. With a normal lisp implementation, you should get a list of available restarts including the skip-gpg-check restart, which you should be able to select. 18:47:55 _3b: how do i enable 18:48:11 glacius: if you have a broken sbcl, then you should replace it with a full featured one. 18:48:30 glacius: why do you think we give you the SOURCES for? 18:48:58 -!- sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:49:01 *_3b* just remembers the last time someone showed up after trying to install clx on archlinux 18:49:36 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@student164-75.hampshire.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:49:57 mrsolo__ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-b90821563a3898af] has joined #lisp 18:50:06 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:50:22 _3b: ok thanks guys going to get a real sbcl 18:54:19 any advantaages of sbcl over clisp 18:54:28 as far as which to use with stump 18:54:35 <_3b> native compiler, more mature threading support 18:54:53 and, of course, the BSD license! 18:54:57 sbcl compiles to native code; clisp has a recently added jit compiler. 18:54:58 <_3b> don't know if either of those matter for that 18:55:54 -!- jbmigel [n=jbm@S010600179a220e57.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:57:32 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@94-224-246-148.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 18:57:41 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 18:57:45 milanj [n=milan@79.101.204.50] has joined #lisp 18:58:22 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:59:10 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:01:08 hehe, the chapter about lisp in PRP (Pratical Ruby Projects) is nice :) 19:01:57 slash_ [n=Unknown@p5DD1C816.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:37 _3b: is it cool to use the archlinux sbcl to build the sbcl i just downloaded 19:02:54 <_3b> glacius: that should be OK 19:03:35 afair, stump mandates sbcl, unless that has changed quite recently. 19:04:06 Fade: stumpwm ? 19:05:25 yeah 19:05:46 sbcl or clisp 19:05:46 it works with clisp too 19:05:47 stump can use sbcl or clisp 19:05:51 :D 19:05:56 :) 19:06:09 nice that it's portable. 19:06:16 glacius: I run stump on the standard arch package of sbcl. 19:06:48 Fade: yes, but it contains a few horrible hacks 19:06:51 wrt. clx 19:06:59 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host242.190-227-33.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:07:14 isn't that because of bugs in clx? :-\ 19:07:23 the requirement for horrible hacks seems to be sort of de rigeur /w clisp. :( 19:07:32 dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-68-142-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:07:41 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-68-142-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:08:12 <_3b> if you dump an sbcl core from a --script, would the resulting core have debugger disabled? 19:09:30 i think you have to explicitly disable ldb. 19:09:59 <_3b> looks like it does disable it 19:10:15 batting a thousand today. 19:10:26 <_3b> someone should tell arch not to do that, or tell sbcl to fix it :) 19:11:18 what happens if the script contains (sb-ext:enable-debugger)? 19:11:34 jbmigel [n=jbm@S010600179a220e57.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:51 _3b: are you on arch? 19:12:07 sykopomp: yes, but I'd expect whoever found a bug in a depending library to send the fixes upstream instead of redefining so many functions like stumpwm does 19:12:09 <_3b> sykopomp: nope, just avoiding actual work :p 19:12:18 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:27 <_3b> Krystof: that fixes it 19:12:47 fe[nl]ix: likewise. I thought stumpwm people did send patches upstream, but they might not... 19:12:51 fe[nl]ix: Shawn's been fairly good at sending me clx tests and bugfixes 19:17:41 fe[nl]ix: I can only find one substantively-redefined function, in fact 19:17:56 (and I'm fairly sure he's sent me that report, too) 19:18:22 overdrive [n=user@client-86-25-217-149.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:26 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:17 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.251.31] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:23:53 <_3b> sykopomp: if you decide to file a bug with arch about the sbcl debugger stuff, using --load instead of --script leaves the debugger enabled in the core also 19:24:06 <_3b> (assuming that is actually what the problem is) 19:24:06 Krystof: so are the redefinitions in http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/stumpwm.git/tree/workarounds.lisp not necessary any more ? 19:24:08 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.243.44] has joined #lisp 19:24:26 fe[nl]ix: have a look at the comments above 19:24:37 -!- Pandala [n=Pandala@ABordeaux-753-1-10-136.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:24:55 Krystof: does that refer to get-wm-class too ? 19:25:02 no 19:25:18 that's the "one" function I referred to earlier 19:25:24 -!- ejs [n=eugen@235-159-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:25:29 and, again, I'm fairly sure that the bug report and patch have been sent 19:26:11 but of course sabetts can't guarantee that all his users have clx-$bleeding-$edge-$latest installed, so it makes sense to save the workarounds 19:26:51 looks like a rebuild worked and stump compiled 19:27:03 the build from source worked 19:27:13 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.243.44] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:27:21 thanks so much 19:27:40 <_3b> glacius: don't forget to file a bug report with your distro :) 19:28:40 yes 19:28:46 ok 19:28:53 gonna try the new window manager 19:28:59 so logging for now 19:29:01 thanks again 19:29:08 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.243.44] has joined #lisp 19:29:19 -!- glacius [n=gmh@c-76-109-217-81.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 19:31:18 -!- mrsolo__ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-b90821563a3898af] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:34:05 hfoo [n=h@p5B17C997.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:34 glacius [n=gmh@c-76-109-217-81.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:38 yay it worked guys 19:35:55 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:40:43 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.21] has joined #lisp 19:42:25 HG` [n=wells@91.111.16.205] has joined #lisp 19:43:26 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 19:43:50 _sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3E402.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:17 -!- glacius [n=gmh@c-76-109-217-81.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:47:43 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:49:31 -!- sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3E402.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:51:26 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 19:51:54 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:46 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:54:24 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:33 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has joined #lisp 19:56:22 overdriv` [n=user@client-86-25-217-149.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:35 b3nt_pin [n=beagles@stjhnf0140w-142162084223.pppoe-dynamic.nl.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:54 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-93.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 20:00:28 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.90.15] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:04:10 -!- overdrive [n=user@client-86-25-217-149.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:04:10 -!- overdriv` [n=user@client-86-25-217-149.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:05:32 overdriv` [n=user@client-80-5-174-215.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:39 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-93.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:10:44 how do I save an instance of a class to a file? 20:12:05 fisxoj: that depends on what you want exactly. serialization, or a load form, or...? 20:12:11 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 20:12:20 something I can load again 20:13:16 benny` [n=benny@i577A007D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:13:18 as in, I have an instance of the class, and then next time the code is run, it can load that class and pick up where it left off 20:13:26 fisxoj: make-load-form / make-load-form-saving-slots could be for you, or at least it's a hint of how to do it 20:13:42 -!- jbmigel [n=jbm@S010600179a220e57.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:13:45 a-s [n=user@92.80.90.15] has joined #lisp 20:14:26 the saving slots one looks great 20:14:27 thanks 20:15:45 fisxoj: there are restrictions you should read about 20:15:48 clhs 3.2.4 20:15:49 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_bd.htm 20:16:07 clhs 3.2.4.4 20:16:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_bdd.htm 20:16:54 fisxoj: you could also go with one of the persistence packages, check cliki 20:17:10 ok, I'll look into it 20:18:36 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.101.94] has quit ["this is not a quit message"] 20:20:09 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:32 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@84.46.7.49] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:22:53 -!- carr0t [n=accr@221.239.117.67] has quit [Client Quit] 20:22:56 -!- crod [n=cmell@x250010.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:23:00 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.7.36.227] has joined #lisp 20:24:09 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 20:27:09 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A09B8.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:32:26 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:33:22 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:13 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:36:56 sohum [n=sohum@122.110.10.42] has joined #lisp 20:39:21 65 files changed, 759 insertions(+), 685 deletions(-) 20:39:42 quite a small hack, really 20:39:56 Roninbv [n=Roninbv@c-76-111-63-165.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:17 -!- Roninbv [n=Roninbv@c-76-111-63-165.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:40:51 Roninbv [n=Roninbv@c-76-111-63-165.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:15 uummm hello? 20:41:39 -!- sohum_ [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:43:32 Roninbv: hello. yes, you have successfully joined the #lisp irc channel. if you have a lisp question, feel free to ask it. 20:43:50 jao [n=jao@55.Red-88-15-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:12 actually, I am just getting started learning lisp, and I was wondering if anyone could advise some good material to start with? 20:46:45 for starting PCL (Pratical Common Lisp) is excellent 20:47:03 -!- jao [n=jao@55.Red-88-15-113.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 20:47:07 minion: tell Roninbv about pcl-book 20:47:07 Roninbv: have a look at pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 20:47:36 nice, this minion 20:47:53 Thanks a lot. lol 20:48:29 ( sincerely... not sarcastically) 20:48:32 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 20:49:33 -!- Roninbv [n=Roninbv@c-76-111-63-165.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:55:06 nekobaka [n=baka@c-76-29-163-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:21 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 20:56:52 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f51d1.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:56:56 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:59:44 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:04:05 I set two items in slime-lisp-implementations. how to start them? 21:04:17 one is sbcl and the other is maxima 21:05:04 I tried C-u M-x slime to start maxima 21:05:18 but it died miserably. 21:06:48 sorry for the noise, it seems it should be M-- M-x slime 21:07:15 leo2007: you can also do M-: (slime 'maxima) 21:08:36 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 21:09:08 -!- kngspook [n=alpha@unaffiliated/alpha] has quit [] 21:10:14 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.21] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:10:44 when I ran sbcl --core /path/to/maxima.core in shell it works just fine 21:10:59 but I can't start it in slime. 21:11:55 leo2007 pasted "slime and maxima" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78854 21:12:03 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a647cf@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f773d9656fc3a9da] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:13:11 any idea how to fix the error in paste 78854? 21:13:26 you didn't set SBCL_HOME 21:13:53 do I have to? 21:14:00 ye[ 21:14:33 if I run sbcl in shell, it runs just fine. What's the use of SBCL_HOME? 21:14:52 <_3b> can you (require :sb-introspect) when you run it from shell? 21:15:49 leo2007: to tell sbcl where its home is 21:15:56 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-64-203.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:16:03 <_3b> being able to load the sbcl contribs slime/swank needs is the use of SBCL_HOME 21:16:06 _3b: no 21:16:07 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:16:44 how do you usually set SBCL_HOME? 21:17:31 usually, SBCL_HOME=home sbcl 21:18:14 do you put it in .bashrc or .sbclrc etc.? 21:18:57 <_3b> .bashrc would work better than .sbclrc, but just specifying it with the command might be easier 21:19:53 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-233-254.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 21:20:02 _3b: let me try it out. 21:20:55 nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-64-203.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:20:56 :env ("SBCL_HOME=/home/me/sbcl-cvs/contrib/") 21:21:06 telebyte [n=rooms@77-58-154-13.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:21:21 that how i set it unusually 21:22:02 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 21:23:38 yes 21:23:41 <_3b> or possibly set the SYS:CONTRIB logical pathname to the correct value and dump the core again 21:23:47 I just picked it up from slime's manual 21:24:13 I'll worry about that later ;) 21:24:24 Now I have it running with maxima.core 21:25:28 -!- telebyte [n=rooms@77-58-154-13.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 21:27:37 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:28:15 manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:28:15 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:30:12 any one here has any experience with using maxima.core? 21:30:39 I try to call $integrate but it says The function $INTEGRATE is undefined. 21:30:46 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:30:57 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 21:31:03 maxima:$integrate? 21:31:20 I just realised this. Thanks. 21:31:56 telebyte [n=rooms@77-58-154-13.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:33:09 I am grateful to your help. I am now able to run maxima in slime. 21:34:57 I'd like to get used to the doc string. How can I interpret something like this 'Its defined argument types are: (T T &OPTIONAL T T)'? 21:35:08 what does T stand for? 21:35:12 any type 21:35:26 every type is a subtype of t 21:35:31 Pan3D [n=Pan3D@63.208.160.186] has joined #lisp 21:35:46 including t itself 21:36:14 though, that's not a docstring 21:36:49 does that mean it is not informative? 21:37:09 no, it doesn't 21:37:09 *leo2007* is trying to find out how to use $integrate. 21:37:34 i guess, just like integrate() 21:38:10 how to translate integrate (x^n,x) to lisp? 21:38:24 I tried ($integrate 'x^n 'x) and it failed. 21:41:00 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 21:41:20 ($integrate #$x^n$ #$x$) ? 21:42:00 tweek__ [n=tweek@host-231-137-111-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:05 -!- tweek__ [n=tweek@host-231-137-111-24.midco.net] has left #lisp 21:42:18 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:43:06 $integrate?... 21:43:39 yeah, why not? 21:44:46 stassats`: how to do it in a lispy way? 21:45:02 -!- _sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3E402.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:45:05 ($integrate '((%SIN SIMP) $X) '$X) 21:45:15 stassats`: I hadn't scrolled up, so I didn't see the maxima thing :) 21:45:27 that's what #$ returned 21:46:06 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 21:47:15 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:47:18 how to list all symbols in a package? 21:47:19 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:47:41 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 21:47:56 calling maxima function from lisp seems close to useless 21:48:25 (loop for symbol being the symbol in :cl-user collect symbol) 21:49:06 well, i really should watch a movie 21:50:23 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:50:35 thank you, everybody. 21:51:10 for symbol being the symbols 21:51:24 ? 21:52:13 works nice for me. what is the issue with it? 21:53:46 i take it as symbol can be just one symbol at a time 21:54:03 <_3b> the grammar for LOOP has lots of places where there are 2 ways to say things, and you can mix parts of them confusingly :) 21:54:38 <_3b> for symbol being each symbol, or for symbol being the symbols 21:54:39 well, you can make it sound more english-like 21:56:32 -!- PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:32 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-97-90.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:32 -!- guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:32 -!- Wombat1 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:32 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:32 -!- maxote [n=el_ermit@84.79.67.254] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:32 -!- housel [n=nhousel@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:32 -!- bob_f [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:32 -!- deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:32 -!- tcoppi [n=nuclear@57c3ed63-1294-45bd-a8e8-cdcc07cfa16f.static.grokthis.net] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:32 -!- clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:32 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:32 -!- nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:33 -!- peddie [n=matthew@PEDDIE.MIT.EDU] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:33 -!- herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:56:33 loop poetry 21:58:05 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-97-90.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 Wombat1 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 maxote [n=el_ermit@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 tcoppi [n=nuclear@57c3ed63-1294-45bd-a8e8-cdcc07cfa16f.static.grokthis.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 guenthr [n=unknown@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 peddie [n=matthew@PEDDIE.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 bob_f [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 housel [n=nhousel@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 21:59:08 shelducks [n=hatf@24-116-241-99.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:11 telebyte_ [n=t@193.247.250.1] has joined #lisp 22:04:41 poet [n=tsally2@fermat.cse.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 22:06:10 I want to parse a rather large database of names and gather statistics about them (average number of letters, etc). Currently they are just in a CSV file and I'm wondering what would be the most advantagous structure to parse them into. A list of name structures would be pretty inefficient correct? 22:06:31 depends on the goals. 22:06:35 if you have to do multiple passes, probably 22:07:04 I'm probably going to be making extensive queries on the data, and the dataset is pretty large 22:07:24 if I want to map relationships between family memebers, for example 22:07:59 -!- telebyte [n=rooms@77-58-154-13.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:08:00 -!- telebyte_ [n=t@193.247.250.1] has quit ["Rooms  iPhone IRC Client  http://rooms.derflash.de"] 22:08:29 I could do a hash table by last name? I assume collisions are handled in an efficient way, right? There's bound to be quitea few 22:08:47 how large is "large"? 22:08:53 poet: what collision? 22:09:00 potentially millions of names 22:09:03 poet: what collision? 22:09:05 pjb: people with the name last names 22:09:10 *same 22:09:14 poet: read again clsh gethash 22:09:17 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:09:36 clhs gethash 22:09:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_gethas.htm 22:10:12 -!- HG` [n=wells@91.111.16.205] has quit [Client Quit] 22:10:48 i've used hash tables and plists in textfiles for a database, and i did testruns upto 800mb. no problems. but i dumped a new image after loading, so the next loading wasnt so slow. 22:11:08 pjb: so you're saying it hashes by pointer address? 22:11:20 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:11:52 I'm saying that there's no collision because the new entry will override the old. 22:12:17 oh, that's no good at all 22:12:30 If you want to index several people with the same last name, then you have to handle it yourself. If you expect more than a few people with the same last name, you won't use a list to store them. 22:12:45 yeah I expect many people with the same last name 22:12:55 that's curious that the hash table object doesn't handle collisions 22:13:12 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.7.36.227] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:13:14 And what do you want to do with them? WHen you have a last name, don't you want them all? Then a list would be good enough. 22:14:11 poet: well, there's a technical collision that is handled internally, but hash-tables are specified in such a way that collisions should occur very rarely: the table size is expanded automatically! 22:14:13 poet: when one discusses collisions in a hash table, one usually refers to collisions after applying the hash function, not in the key values themselves 22:14:59 hefner: right, I guess I was assuming the same key would generate the same hash 22:15:25 -!- hfoo [n=h@p5B17C997.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:15:26 Obviously it does, but it's not relevant for your problem. 22:15:52 So, assume there are 100,000 Smiths. What do you expect of (gethash "Smith") ? What should it be? 22:15:59 yeah I want to keep all the names, but I figured I would have to do a lot of look ups. Maybe a list of lists, with the last name as the first element in the inner list? Then I could define a custom sort fucntion to sort everythign alphabetically, and do look ups with a binary search. Pretty slow the first time, but eficient after that? 22:16:22 pjb: a pointer to a unique place to store the value associated with smith 22:16:27 What about the 1,000s of John Smith ? 22:16:36 What is a pointer? 22:16:47 a place in memory 22:16:48 <_3b> poet: 'the value' associated with smith... you only get one 22:17:19 <_3b> poet: you can put a list or another hash table there if you want to store multiple values with a key of "Smith" 22:17:29 ah I see 22:17:33 i think you are gonna end up with a more flexible and nice design if you map your format to clos objects and just pushes those into the hash or list or whatever. 22:17:43 so I could store a list of John smiths at (gethash "Smith) 22:18:01 rather a list of all smiths 22:18:30 poet: usually, people with big person database use a special unique identifier, such as a SSN. 22:19:00 Then if you have to find persons by other keys than unique identifiers, you can add indexes. 22:19:16 pjb: hrm, but eventually I may try and make inferences about the relationships between people, so I am trying to design my program with taht in mind 22:19:33 so an index of the SSNs of all Smiths? 22:19:54 What about the Goodmans and the Sachs? 22:20:24 no one likes them. 22:20:28 :-) 22:20:29 well with the hash table they would just be in a difference place 22:20:49 so lets say I make this massive hash table, is dumping an image the way to preserve that? 22:21:38 Why not. It's a quick and easy way to do it. However, there may have other operational constraints not fulfilled by just dumping an image. 22:21:41 *hefner* wonders if the stupid (friendly) versions of the fft/ifft functions should zero-pad their input up to a power of two automatically 22:22:02 hefner: ugly perf characteristics. 22:22:24 pjb: alright, I'll go off that for now. I've never really written a serious program in lisp, but it seems well suited for this type of task 22:22:35 pkhuong: in terms of allocation and copying things around? 22:22:41 poet: well, yes, you can do that. you can also write a lisp log file that is essentially lisp code with data, so you can compile those files. that way you can load it somewhat faster as well. 22:22:46 tweek__ [n=tweek@host-231-137-111-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:25 hypno: so essentially writing the hash table out in a series of lisp function calls? 22:23:33 poet: however, i really think you should twink twice about how you represent your data. clos is really helpful with that, i think. 22:23:42 poet: the indexes, you will build them depending on the kind of accesses you need. 22:24:29 pkhuong: if so, there are more direct versions that assume everything is in the correct format, and an existing friendly version that will convert the input to complex double-floats if it isn't already, but then seems like you might as well pad it automatically too 22:24:45 unless there's a strong argument for why that's completely braindead, anyway. 22:25:17 poet: pretty much yes. it's uggly and somewhat inefficient of course, but it's nice to had LOADable files. :) 22:25:25 s/had/have 22:25:59 hefner: in terms of doing useless work. 22:26:31 I guess the internal routine doesn't handle non-power-of-two inputs? There's the problem :) 22:26:42 pkhuong: right, it doesn't. 22:27:42 if I were to go and change that, it might be nice to change it so it can read from an offset within a larger vector too 22:28:31 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:33:51 I just lost to my own othello player 22:33:56 49 to 15 22:34:29 its goal seems to be to cut off the opponent's moves, just like the other programs that were beating it 22:34:41 I'm rather impressed with how easy that was 22:35:10 -!- mikesch_ [n=axel@cable-195-14-198-142.netcologne.de] has quit [] 22:40:32 hypno: I did was you suggested and created a simple person class to hold the data. My question is, if the person is married, how can I get the correct value to store in the partner field. It should be a pointer to the person object of their partner, but I think I'll be creating the objects as I put them in the hash table 22:41:51 <_3b> poet: assuming your data is consistent (and marriage is symmetrical), just set both when you load the second 22:42:24 <_3b> or do a second pass to add relationships if you need to deal with asymmetrical relationships 22:42:50 <_3b> or use a unique key of some sort instead of pointers 22:43:55 _3b: when I parse the data, I made sure I could load both at the same time. What to I use to get the location of the object though? 22:44:27 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-131.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:44:27 as in, I parse married couples together so I can put them in the hash table at the same time 22:44:33 poet: you get the entry with gethash as usual and then you traverse the list with the objects? 22:44:47 hej ski 22:45:04 <_3b> poet: just use the object, lisp doesn't have user-visible pointers 22:45:12 poet: what about muslims (polygamy)? What about divorced and remarried people? 22:45:28 hrm, so perhapes the partner field will be a cons with the last name of the partner and their unique ID 22:46:20 why not just use two fields in the class? 22:46:28 -!- b3nt_pin [n=beagles@stjhnf0140w-142162084223.pppoe-dynamic.nl.aliant.net] has left #lisp 22:46:56 pjb: the marriage records are from the united states and I'm trying to do a large scale analysis on the data, so the sample size for muslims isn't large enough to consider. I'm not sure how I'm going to handle remarried people though :-p. I agreew with you about the challenges of marriage databases in general if you have to handle all cases 22:47:00 poet: it can be a direct reference to the other object, that's the great thing about object oriented databases (and this is what you have when you have lisp objects). But marriages should be separate objects. You could index the marriages by the OID of the persons concerned, or you could have direct links from the persons to the marriages she's involved from. 22:47:43 ah here we go: http://qntm.org/?gay "Gay marriage: the database engineering perspective" 22:47:58 :-) 22:48:23 ah I see, that makes sense 22:49:26 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:21 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:52:11 and I can just make my marriage object have fields called one and two because I can cram whatever I want in there, including references to people objects 22:52:49 right. and you get dynamic updates and functionality updates with generic functions and methods and all. 22:54:06 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:54:11 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-64-203.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:57:25 lagenar [n=lucas@190.178.193.209] has joined #lisp 23:03:36 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 Roninbv [n=Roninbv@c-76-111-63-165.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:14 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:10:03 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 23:10:40 younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 23:10:49 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 23:13:16 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has left #lisp 23:13:18 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.196.186] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:13:35 -!- Roninbv [n=Roninbv@c-76-111-63-165.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:13:39 guys, i'm trying to get the example from this page to work: http://frank-buss.de/lisp/clim.html 23:13:48 its the first painter example 23:13:54 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-122-56.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 23:14:00 when i try to run it nothing comes up but no errors come up either 23:14:01 thougths? 23:15:02 maybe it only works on lispworks on windows or whatever he is using 23:16:18 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:18 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:16:34 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 23:17:02 holycow: hm, you're running in mcclim? 23:17:22 looks mostly ok, though I don't know about that (:pane ) clause to define-application-frame 23:17:29 might have to be :panes 23:17:38 mcclim yeah 23:17:44 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 23:18:13 antifuchs: ah so there are differences between clim and mcclim that i need to be aware of okay 23:18:33 antifuchs: are there any decent mcclim examples out there? i'm not googling a lot 23:18:33 for one, he doesn't say if this is for clim v1 or v2 (-: 23:18:47 holycow: there's mcclim/Examples/ in your checkout 23:18:56 ah 23:19:00 also, Apps/ 23:19:06 k. 23:19:15 Apps especially; I recommend the Listener (: 23:20:37 -!- manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [] 23:21:06 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:25:35 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:39 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:25:50 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:25:55 are forward references broken in sbcl's compile-file? 23:26:46 -!- younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:26:47 to functions? or what? 23:26:51 yes 23:27:21 you need to acknowledge that you have such functions by placing defun at top-level 23:27:27 I have a function being called on the top of a source file and it's defined immediately after its called 23:28:17 the called function is a top-level defun. the caller is a huncentoot easy-handler thinggie; maybe they're putting their handler defuns in some block 23:29:09 younder [n=jthing@084202013251.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 23:29:26 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 23:30:07 wrt to my hunchentoot optimization saga; i'm able to get 20 requests per second MORE if i remove the call to log-message :-D right now i'm going to create an in memory message queue and letting the acceptors "log" to it with-lock-held, and whenever it reaches a certain size i will :append to the log file. 23:30:15 okay, so i have a sample piece of code in emacs, slime is loaded up in another buffer and the code compiles with 0 errors. how do i run the code from the emacs session? do i haveto switch over to the slime window or do i use an emacs command? 23:30:44 fwiw, 40k graphic + iframe, i'm getting 124 requests per second. not bad. 23:31:09 fusss: what are you building? 23:31:41 i'm serving ads; basically repurposing google ads in some very sinister way :-D 23:31:50 heh 23:31:54 neat 23:32:53 here is some sbcl scene pron i found earlier http://www.vimeo.com/4074512 23:33:37 later 23:33:38 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"] 23:35:52 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:57 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:36:12 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-193-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:27 -!- cipher` [n=cipher@pool-173-48-136-239.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:37:50 cipher [n=cipher@pool-173-48-136-239.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:18 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:39:14 whit1 [n=cpc5@cpe-67-241-171-153.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:27 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:52 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:43:52 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 23:44:37 -!- whit1 [n=cpc5@cpe-67-241-171-153.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 23:45:07 white-rabbit-obj [n=cpc5@cpe-67-241-171-153.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:20 -!- white-rabbit-obj [n=cpc5@cpe-67-241-171-153.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 23:46:10 white-rabbit-obj [n=cpc5@cpe-67-241-171-153.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:46:40 manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:46:40 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:47:59 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:47:59 -!- manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:49:38 manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:49:38 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:51:54 apo_ [n=apo@pD9E7F07F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:36 -!- manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:52:49 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:53:53 -!- manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:53:54 manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:57:53 manby-ace [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:57:53 -!- manby-ace_ [n=manby-ac@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:57:57 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp