00:01:02 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:02:41 madnificent: T 00:04:14 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p3211-ipbf2908marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Instain to the do way"] 00:04:20 madnificent: perhaps we can assume IRC to be an OPFR of sorts :) 00:04:23 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-122-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:06:59 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:08:25 -!- Guest12316 [i=irssi_lo@78.115.210.9] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:09:35 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit ["brb"] 00:10:11 drewc: I've made an ad-hoc implemantation of something similar to migrations, as cl-migrations was quite dirty at first sight. Are you interested in something like that? 00:10:17 michaelw: OPFR? 00:10:39 outer parenthesis free repl? 00:10:58 could be 00:11:24 minion: what does OPFR stand for? 00:11:25 Overrunner Pereiopod Faced Remedial 00:11:52 yes, 00:12:09 michaelw: wouldn't be a bad idea... but wouldn't users be global variables? (and thus named *madnificent* instead of madnificent) 00:13:45 message passing: name: herep 00:14:10 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 00:14:38 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 00:14:50 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CD6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:18:21 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:19:33 -!- anekos [n=anekos@pl476.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1: SIGTERM received; exit"] 00:19:54 awayekos [n=anekos@pl476.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:19:58 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 00:21:48 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:22:30 beta-dog [n=user@88.238.219.37] has joined #lisp 00:22:49 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 00:23:28 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 00:25:40 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:26:19 koning_robot [n=aap@213.93.244.75] has joined #lisp 00:28:47 WhitFlame [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:20 -!- dfox_ [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:29:29 hi 00:29:32 dfox_ [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 00:29:44 hello Quadrescence 00:30:42 hello 00:30:44 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 00:30:47 i lyke penors 00:31:41 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:25 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.211.211] has joined #lisp 00:34:08 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:34:59 *fusss* is trolling for any info on hunchentoot performance changes from 0.x to 1.0 wrt dynamic content 00:35:20 bhkinjhrfd 00:38:03 pleased? 00:38:44 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Success] 00:39:43 madnificent: i'd love to have a look! 00:39:52 durka42_ [n=durka@nightingale.sccs.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 00:41:36 *fusss* advises all would be gui/web-app developers to use the "pencil" plugin for firefox. useful little thing it is. 00:42:09 drewc: failing me didn't select #lisp http://paste.lisp.org/display/78655 00:42:27 -!- durka42_ is now known as durka42 00:43:01 Art [n=Art@84.23.62.56] has joined #lisp 00:43:04 drewc: lacks detection of the current database scheme (and I'm too lazy to add it) and something external that does the with-db (you use db for that (at least in the rofl info)) 00:44:05 -!- Art [n=Art@84.23.62.56] has quit [Client Quit] 00:44:16 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:44:16 drewc: LoL, there's even an error in it. In any case the goal is clear 00:44:18 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:18 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 00:45:30 Art07 [n=user@84.23.62.56] has joined #lisp 00:45:43 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:46:13 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:46:40 *madnificent* heads to bed 00:47:49 -!- metasynt1x [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:47:59 metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:04 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:49:08 -!- Art07 [n=user@84.23.62.56] has quit [Client Quit] 00:49:23 -!- beta-dog [n=user@88.238.219.37] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:49:47 beta-dog [n=user@88.238.219.37] has joined #lisp 00:49:54 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:30 -!- beta-dog [n=user@88.238.219.37] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:51:27 appletizer [i=user@82-45-11-91.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:51:38 beta-dog [n=user@88.238.219.37] has joined #lisp 00:56:48 madnificent: that look more like a lispy version than the cl-migrations codebase... a lot simpler too. 00:56:58 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:36 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@81.225.114.252] has left #lisp 01:12:05 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:12:53 ahaas [n=ahaas@c-76-17-41-185.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:50 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 01:16:07 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@121.13.172.246] has joined #lisp 01:16:42 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:24 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-45-11-91.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:21:40 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:24:48 adlirc [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 01:24:50 -!- adlirc is now known as addled 01:24:57 rread [n=rread@12.155.31.10] has joined #lisp 01:28:58 rread_ [n=rread@12.155.31.10] has joined #lisp 01:29:09 chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:22 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.115.207.78] has joined #lisp 01:30:44 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-63.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:31:16 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 01:32:24 joha1 [n=johan@fw1.ngigroup.com] has joined #lisp 01:32:29 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-5b04d2b2a920874d] has left #lisp 01:35:49 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-30-252.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:38:02 -!- rread [n=rread@12.155.31.10] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:39:32 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.211.211] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:44:55 dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-68-173-124-55.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:04 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-68-173-124-55.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:46:41 How do I execute two if a condition is t? I'm doing (if (cond) ( (loop ...) (foobar ...) ) ) but that's not working... 01:47:11 two functions* 01:47:28 (when (cond) (first) (second)) 01:47:30 apo: why would you think that would possibly work? Do you understand the evaluation model of CL? 01:47:57 drewc: if is a special form, it could do some magic 01:48:06 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:48:18 drewc: Sometimes ;) I've only been learning CL for two days 01:48:22 stassats`: Thanks! 01:48:23 clhs if 01:48:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_if.htm 01:48:29 but it doesn't! :) 01:49:37 apo: parens are not used for 'grouping' in lisp. have a look at PROGN, or COND, or as stassats` said... WHEN 01:50:42 apo: what text are you using to learn CL? 01:51:37 drewc: I've read parts of http://www.cs.sfu.ca/CC/310/pwfong/Lisp/ and am now trying to do some Project Euler questions 01:51:49 minion: pcl? 01:51:50 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 01:52:46 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-122-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:54:40 apo: what he said :) PCL is a much better text, especially if you are already familiar with programming in general 01:55:01 Alright. 01:55:24 The only language I've really learned before this was C, so this is quite a change... ;) 01:56:19 lacedaemon [n=algidus@88-149-208-157.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 01:56:36 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1176023512.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:56:54 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-182.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:57:55 apo: yeah, you're damaged good now :) 01:58:05 drewc: Hey! I like C. 01:58:27 drewc: but now it's more challenging 01:58:35 apo: that's ok, you're still learning :) 01:58:53 rewiring neurons is always fun 01:59:43 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:59:51 Hehe 02:01:01 clog [n=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 02:05:00 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:05:34 -!- beta-dog [n=user@88.238.219.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:06:02 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:06:23 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:19 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-30-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 02:09:54 jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 02:10:54 emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:12:30 \o/ my horrible trial division prime finder is working 02:12:42 -!- legumbre` [n=user@r190-135-46-84.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:16:36 *stassats`* finds, that his programming experience can be measured by the speed of prime finding programs he could write 02:17:01 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:17:17 -!- emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:18:03 -!- gtasso [i=ca5027a2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ff64f43ab46e7f8b] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 02:18:40 awesome, perhaps you can speed up msieve 02:19:49 mindCrime [n=chatzill@cpe-075-177-141-190.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:12 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:56 i guess, the right word was "proportional" 02:23:18 -!- malcolm_reynolds [n=malc@78-86-4-156.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 02:26:59 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-182-29.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:18 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:32:23 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 02:39:37 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 02:42:44 wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 02:45:38 Is there a very simple csv parser in clbuild? 02:46:15 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:30 is there a simple way to convert decimal to binary in common lisp? 02:46:46 textually? 02:46:57 yes 02:46:59 (write 10 :base 2) 02:47:41 who would have thought that stassats would have a simple one-line answer to my dumb ass question once again 02:47:44 thanks buddy 02:48:09 or write-to-string if you want a string 02:48:59 ChopperDave: http://members.optusnet.com.au/apicard/csv-parser.lisp ... don't know if it's any good but it's just a single file 02:50:01 Heh, that looks like what OnshoreD uses 02:50:12 minion: fare-csv? 02:50:13 fare-csv: fare-csv is a small Text utility to process CSV files. http://www.cliki.net/fare-csv 02:51:30 Thanks guys 02:51:46 now to hope this excel spreadsheet goes to csv simply enough 02:52:38 isismelting: fwiw, if you like binary very much, you could set *read-base* to 2. and *print-base* 2. 02:54:05 excellent, thanks stassats 02:54:25 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@121.13.172.246] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:54:30 yeah, I recently upgraded fare-csv, which used to suck, to now be better than apicard's 02:55:11 fare-csv links to docs about CSV and tricks to know if you want to communicate w/ Excel thru it 02:55:51 -!- durka42 [n=durka@nightingale.sccs.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:55:52 isismelting, (format t "~2R" #b10110011) 02:56:02 nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 02:56:13 is ~B same as ~2R ? 02:56:19 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:56:37 should be 02:57:06 Tordek [n=tordek@host117.190-138-159.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:57:22 that just gave me the string after #b 02:57:27 er the 10110011 02:57:35 -!- joha1 [n=johan@fw1.ngigroup.com] has left #lisp 02:57:44 (format t "~2R" #b10110011) 02:58:04 that's binary, isn't it? 02:58:32 Fare: I'm just taking an Excel spreadsheet, getting csv out of it, and then am using that as a data import 02:58:35 #b is a reader syntax for binaries 02:59:15 #nR is for arbitrary radix (no more than 36) 02:59:42 sundar [i=IceChat7@59.92.122.173] has joined #lisp 02:59:46 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-30-252.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:00:47 Fare dropped out pretty quickly. I guess mentioning fare-csv probably woke him up sleeping under his desk or something! 03:00:50 :) 03:01:16 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.231.123] has joined #lisp 03:02:37 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 03:08:31 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:28 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@121.13.172.246] has joined #lisp 03:11:05 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:11:22 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit ["omghaahhahaohwow"] 03:16:39 hello 03:16:55 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 03:18:00 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 03:22:01 nurv [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 03:23:12 -!- nurv [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:23:12 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:23:45 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:23:54 if you're writing (format t "~a in decimal is ~b in binary" number number) is there a way to not write number twice -- something about this seems messy 03:24:01 nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 03:25:02 that's normal c format behaviour 03:25:20 like %d %n %s 03:25:29 lol 03:25:47 i'm passing the variable number to a function is what 03:25:48 (format t "~d in decimal is ~:*~b in binary" 42) 03:25:55 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:14 the guy I'm working with doesn't have sbcl because there doesn't seem to be a stable Windows port out 03:26:26 stassats - i feel like i should be paying you 03:26:37 Clozure OpenMCL is basically the same thing, right? 03:28:10 isismelting: no, it's beneficial for me too, i'll remember it better that way 03:28:36 emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:29:14 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:39 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:33:51 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:34:10 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 03:38:32 -!- erk [n=MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [K-lined] 03:39:04 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-157.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:43:45 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:24 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:46:55 nurv101` [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 03:47:20 -!- nurv101` [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:47:21 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:47:50 nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 03:49:44 -!- Lou__ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 03:50:25 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-33.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 03:52:54 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-86-176.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:39 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:59:44 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:00:13 nurv101 [n=askmefor@85.247.70.11] has joined #lisp 04:00:27 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@85.247.70.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:00:56 nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 04:01:26 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:01:54 nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 04:03:09 -!- tweek__ [n=tweek@host-231-137-111-24.midco.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:03:28 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:03:53 nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 04:05:07 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:05:56 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 04:08:03 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.30.252] has joined #lisp 04:08:12 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:09:03 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 04:15:28 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:15:53 nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 04:20:14 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 04:21:41 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:22:12 dammit I immediately thought of a clever response to tweek__'s question but per is gone :/ 04:23:07 here is a clever question you can respond to. how do you like hunchentoot 1.0 vs 0.15.7, performance wise? :-) 04:25:13 beta-dog [n=user@88.238.44.137] has joined #lisp 04:25:31 sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:53 -!- beta-dog [n=user@88.238.44.137] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:26:20 beta-dog [n=user@88.238.44.137] has joined #lisp 04:27:21 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:27:56 yogigoo [n=yoga@ip-190.59.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:00 anyone using slime. I just insall slime, but it Aborting. 04:30:15 -!- yogigoo [n=yoga@ip-190.59.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:31:19 khumba [n=khumba@S0106001e2ac2d18e.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:35 which os? 04:38:58 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:40:56 sb-sprof:with-profiling (:mode :time .... ) seems to have some problems. No sampling! 04:41:14 modes :cpu and :alloc seem ok. 04:41:23 v 1.0.25 04:48:07 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:48:13 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:45 Ah, with :mode :cpu it also fails to loop. 04:50:55 So :mode :time, just exits with no samples, :mode :cpu will do one run and exit, :mode :alloc seems fine 04:52:30 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-66-41-11-10.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:56:14 pstickne [n=pstickne@65.102.47.229] has joined #lisp 04:56:20 Noll_Noll [n=28@c-ee70e253.4542024--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:02:28 -!- khumba [n=khumba@S0106001e2ac2d18e.ok.shawcable.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:03:27 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-63.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:05:54 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:07:42 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 05:08:33 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 05:10:14 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:10:26 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 05:16:39 wentbackward: i really hope you get an answer for that. i briefly looked at profiling in sbcl and didn't see much happening. 05:18:21 wentbackward: try to increase :max-samples? 05:19:54 I've been playing around with it. With a sufficiently heavy workload, :cpu starts to loop until reaching :max-samples. I'm now testing this (:cpu) with my code that I want profiled. 05:20:15 :time just doesn't do anything. As my code is heavily IO bound, that's a real drag for me! 05:23:39 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:42 the more i learn javascript the more i'm freaked out by what it can do 05:30:39 You might find this interesting: http://video.yahoo.com/watch/111593. I only got to the point where he says Javascript is a functional language like Lisp and Haskell. But I've heard the talks are very useful 05:32:21 is that crockford? 05:32:27 i have The Good Parts 05:32:52 like lisp, not haskell 05:34:09 Something like that. But anyhow I felt it was a throwaway comment and still whinging about javascript being misunderstood. I will watch it as recommended by other programmers whom I respect. 05:34:26 just get firebug and play with its repl 05:34:44 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:34:59 for good measure, read this sensationalistic trade article. i just tested it tonight and i can concur: http://www.clickz.com/3632667 05:34:59 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-14-90.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 05:35:00 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-7bc2467a71cb3fe7] has joined #lisp 05:35:00 And because I've just completed a project with a Dojo UI hooked up to hunchentoot. It's actually very nice 05:35:11 :-) 05:35:27 i use YUI and jquery 05:35:46 mainly because i insist on not learning web development properly 05:36:01 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-7bc2467a71cb3fe7] has left #lisp 05:37:23 I'm trying to turn my clients onto lisp on the server side. I have some work to do on the authentication part and I guess I now need to check the HT 1.0 docs 05:37:51 you made the switch to 1.0.0? a bit hackish, no? 05:38:10 Hans says they're going to rewrite the error handling mechanism 05:38:16 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 05:38:31 koft [n=user@adsl-227-105-110.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:31 i probably wont jump ship til 1.1.x 05:38:53 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 05:39:03 *stassats`* is too lazy to rewrite his two-page homepage for ht-1.0 05:39:11 hey, does anybody know which cairo library is the best one listed on cliki? 05:39:13 The site that's using 1 is a bit conceptual anyhow. Uses the latest everything. 05:39:43 But will be put live this w/e! 05:40:37 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-225.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 05:41:18 koft: if any of them uses CFFI take it 05:42:03 *fusss* is unable to evaluate js in IE 7's address bar with the javascript: protocol. IE refusing to execute something? 05:42:21 i found one that does, i'mma try it, the one in clbuild can't fetch 05:42:37 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:42:52 koft: what are the libraries you're looking at? 05:43:25 http://www.cliki.net/cffi-cairo 05:43:46 oh crap, 2:00 rolling on soon, gott a do a beer run 05:43:50 -!- rread_ [n=rread@12.155.31.10] has quit [] 05:43:59 Ok the :cpu problem seems to have been related to me killing runs whilst profiling. I think I must have somehow killed it during cleanup and it left some flags set. 05:44:07 So now I only have a problem with :mode :time 05:44:12 from my experience, if you want vector graphics and don't care much for image manipulation, then c-vecto is it. 05:44:17 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 05:44:44 where is 2:00AM last call and how can i move there? i made my run at 11:56, had 4 minutes 05:45:44 limit is 23h here 05:46:02 except for bars of course 05:46:27 and in Jersey they don't sell beer in 7/11; pussies 05:47:19 strange thing, in my city they're some troubles getting vodka after 11pm 05:47:51 and that's in russia... 05:47:59 any strong liquor is only available in government liquor stores here, but beer and wine are found everywhere up to 23h 05:49:18 in Montreal that is 05:49:47 *stassats`* doesn't quite get these rules 05:50:18 jli [n=jli@adsl-074-229-201-181.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:09 tweek__ [n=tweek@host-231-137-111-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:18 moving everything over to asdf was an amazingly stupid idea 05:55:13 this homework assignment, someone else asked to work with me. I don't normally do that, but I decided, what the hell, why not 05:55:14 *fusss* *hearts* russia 05:55:36 he uses Windows for development, that alone should have raised a bunch of red flags 05:55:52 I just spent about a half hour trying to figure out how to make sbcl find asdf packages in Windows 05:56:10 why bother using a build system, designed to make life easier, if it doesn't 05:56:22 w/ the graphics stuff, i'm just looking for something that will let me draw points and lines 05:56:24 (push #p"C:/foo/bar" asdf:*central-registry*) 05:56:27 tried that 05:56:45 fusss: in Soviet Russia, hearts fusss you 05:56:49 i'm pretty new to lisp and i learn a language best when i can do some simple graphics stuff 05:56:55 I keep leaving stuff for him to do, but I keep somehow making it harder for him to even run the damn thing 05:57:05 what the hell do I do now? 05:57:33 rewrite everything in python 05:57:54 koft: Cairo is too heavy weight for you right now, Vecto and cl-gd should do what you want 05:57:55 i got cl-opengl up and running on the mac but i need to learn more lisp to do anything interesting at this point 05:57:56 koft: I liked toying with lispbuilder-sdl for simple tests here, as I was familiar with sdl+C already 05:58:16 tweek__: I insist that my partners use some kind of POSIX-shellish environment, OS X, Linux or even cygwin. 05:58:25 yeah yeah I don't get that luxury 05:58:40 sbcl isn't even installed on the linux machines in the lab, ffs 05:58:55 fuck, man, I should have just told him now 05:58:59 no* 05:59:06 tweek__: I literally tell them it's how it is if they want to run my build environment :p [and then I still have to add the stupid hacks for windows :-/] 05:59:14 you're learning Lisp in school. *sigh*. 05:59:19 oh cool cl-gd looks like exactly what i want 05:59:32 tweek__: can it be self-installed? 05:59:35 koft: and most of all, enjoy yourself 05:59:59 thanks for the pointers 06:00:03 so, what, I write a batch file, or a MSI, or something 06:00:03 so, I'm trying to do some Netflix data mining. while loading the training set (hash table keyed on user id, value is hash table of movie and rating), clisp dies at user 5762 (out of 480,189) with a segfault. SBCL dies with a "heap exhausted" error, even earlier than clisp. am I doing something horribly wrong? 06:00:08 that installs sbcl 06:00:09 *fusss* has a line that loads all the asdf systems on his machine into asdf:*central-registry* somewhere, but he is too drunk to find it 06:00:22 puts in a .sbclrc with the *central-registry* crap set up correctly 06:00:35 then places the files in the correct spots 06:00:40 yeah, it's in .sbclrc 06:00:49 jli: are you sure that hash tables is the right data structure? 06:01:12 Netflix 06:01:16 god that was what, two years ago 06:01:21 and no one has even come close 06:01:45 (dolist (dir (directory "C:/site-systems/*/")) ; or wherever your repo is 06:01:47 (pushnew (make-pathname :directory (pathname-directory dir) :type "asd") 06:01:49 asdf:*central-registry*)) 06:01:54 tweek__, false. top slot on the leaderboard has a 9.65% improvement, .35% away from the prize 06:02:01 rread [n=rread@12.155.31.10] has joined #lisp 06:02:18 tweek__: if you solve netflix you solve ecommerce :-) 06:02:27 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 06:02:28 or targeted marketing aspects of it 06:02:29 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:02:49 I guess I'm too used to figures like '50% more accurate' 06:02:54 stassats`, it's the first thing that came to mind. can you give me any suggestions or pointers? 06:03:03 10% is probably huge to marketers, I guess 06:03:15 jli: search c.l.l for some ideas 06:03:17 Hello 06:03:41 tweek__: 5% improvement on a business process and you think of IPO/patent/sale 06:04:14 tweek__, perhaps you should try your hand at it before sneezing at 10% ;) 06:05:10 AI is hyped in the media as the last invention anyone will ever need to perfect 06:05:12 to no end 06:05:36 huh? 06:05:38 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:11:54 `;;. 06:14:02 huh 06:14:31 koft: take a look at http://www.pawfal.org/fluxus/ or http://impromptu.moso.com.au/ if you want graphics in a hurry. Depends on what graphics you want though! 06:15:12 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:15:38 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA6AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:16:30 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f49c8.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:16:56 jikanter [n=jordan@99.31.158.116] has joined #lisp 06:17:19 -!- jikanter [n=jordan@99.31.158.116] has quit [Client Quit] 06:18:57 -!- H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA6B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:19:59 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:21:37 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:23:54 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@65.102.47.229] has quit [Client Quit] 06:25:00 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:30:44 Ragnaroek [i=54a6465e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f3cf622f80a4ce4f] has joined #lisp 06:34:10 drewc: what's going on sailor?! 06:34:36 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:38:46 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-161-244.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:41:10 good morning 06:42:00 -!- beta-dog [n=user@88.238.44.137] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:45:27 sorry folks .. ferrets type when i forget to close the laptop :) 06:46:02 (btw: go canucks!) 06:51:32 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 06:51:33 When working in my dev environment, typically I have declaim (optimize debug) set. If then wish to run with (optimize speed) should I delete all the fasl? - SBCL in particular 06:52:37 lol 06:52:50 drewc: are you a fellow canuckian ? 06:55:00 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:56:02 sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has joined #lisp 06:56:26 ok, so I've found multiple references to "napcar" in an old common lisp file. what is it? 06:57:32 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 06:58:32 A way to indicate something destructive with mapcar maybe? 06:58:56 hmmm 06:59:15 it does seem to have the same type signature as mapcar 07:00:04 *woopdeedoo* considers trolling drewc with a 'go calgary' in the chan 07:00:06 *hmmm* 07:01:00 napcar is the old lazy evaluation function in LispM that applied a function to the CAR of a list, and only evaluated the function when its result was used. 07:01:59 i.e. it blocked, or took a nap .. (yeah, i'm joking, it's a typographica error, or maybe a ViewPort error in the human perceptor ;-) 07:02:26 fusss: aaah. so if I replace it with mapcar I'll hit a performance penalty but no logical problems? (assuming no side effects) 07:02:43 hahahaha, i win at trolling :-P 07:03:01 *sohum* headdesk 07:03:03 this you do 07:03:20 there is no napcar; napcar is what the homeless used to crash in when they're stranded in a train station. 07:03:41 lol 07:03:59 this is fucking funy, though i'm drunk :-D hahahahahaha 07:05:27 bash.org, someone 07:05:55 brb, coughing outside 07:06:00 if you aren't making fun of black people you will never get it post it bash 07:06:15 *fusss* is black :-S 07:06:28 you have access to the jokes! 07:06:31 go for it :) 07:07:27 "Sometimes the jokes don't make the man" -- George Michael, in a Yorkshire public restroom 07:07:35 heh 07:09:38 woopdeedoo: 2-1 vancity! 07:09:54 haha! 07:10:01 dude right on, glad to see lispers here 07:10:11 stumpwm is coded up by some lispers from here too 07:10:32 *drewc* is a stumpwm user 07:10:44 i'm a convert too 07:11:25 do you use it with multiple monitors? 07:12:06 -!- jli [n=jli@adsl-074-229-201-181.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 07:12:36 woopdeedoo: cow town is going to whoop chi town though, no doubt. :) 07:12:37 not yet, i haveto get a second one here tho 07:12:57 drewc: hehe, canuckistanis are sucking once again, indeed 07:13:00 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 07:14:14 ejs [n=eugen@50-124-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:15 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-76-254-60-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 07:16:02 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:16:18 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-225.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 07:16:53 nadan [n=ndan@unaffiliated/nadan] has joined #lisp 07:17:42 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 07:20:50 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-225.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:21:25 -!- aja [n=aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Client Quit] 07:22:23 Ogedei [n=user@e178192145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:22:43 -!- ejs [n=eugen@50-124-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:23:04 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 07:26:50 where can I find a format reference that includes ~/ ? 07:27:05 clhs ~/ 07:27:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_ced.htm 07:27:15 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-4578.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 07:27:43 that's a smart bot. thankee 07:29:18 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6B5FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:09 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:32:40 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:33:26 If my programme is spending a lot of time in SB-PCL::SAFE-METHOD-SPECIALIZERS, what might it be doing. I'm finding it really hard to trace back where this is being called from 07:35:34 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:39:03 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D0E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:00 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D0E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:40:11 drewc: its cleaner to use, but it lacks some features (and it a name) 07:41:24 wentbackward: sb-pcl means you're in CLOS neverland 07:41:48 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6465e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f3cf622f80a4ce4f] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 07:41:49 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-76-254-60-63.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:51 Ah, it seems the statistical profiler cannot reliably build a call graph. 07:48:03 sorry morning, s/it a/it lacks a/ 07:48:52 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:26 chrnybo [n=user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 07:54:25 -!- frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.129.3] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:55:02 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@121.13.172.246] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:56:29 'morning 07:57:28 -!- _8david [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:58:11 nostoi [n=nostoi@163.Red-79-156-53.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:17 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 08:01:51 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 08:03:15 -!- rread [n=rread@12.155.31.10] has quit [] 08:04:10 dwave [n=ask@062016208166.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 08:04:50 moin trebor_dki 08:06:25 is there a function that sorts a list non-destructively? I'm manually copying the list before sorting now 08:07:13 madnificent: Yes: (defun sort* (x &rest args) (apply (function sort) (copy-sequence x) args)) 08:07:26 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:07:48 madnificent: Why do you do things manually, when you have a whole programming language to automatize things!?!?! 08:07:59 matimago: ITYM copy-seq 08:08:07 Yes. 08:10:01 -!- dwave [n=ask@062016208166.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 08:11:07 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@163.Red-79-156-53.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:11:39 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 08:12:46 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:12:48 matimago: LoL, I used copy-list... but that was the 'manual' that I was referring to :) 08:13:55 I felt it would be rather dull to not use a built-in (perhaps optimised) non-destructive sorting function if it would exist 08:16:26 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:16:54 madnificent: of course, but it doesn't exist. 08:18:01 matimago: that's probably what he was asking ... ;) 08:20:32 incf fiveop 08:20:50 and thanks 08:21:06 lichtblau [n=user@wallstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 08:22:56 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-86-176.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:24:24 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:27:17 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@121.13.172.246] has joined #lisp 08:27:26 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@121.13.172.246] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:30:34 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 08:33:34 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-89-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 08:33:42 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 08:35:07 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 08:38:54 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:39:27 fiveop: "is there x" vs. "is there x in CL" 08:39:28 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-197-14-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:41:10 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.242.136] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:43:30 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:44:52 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 08:45:18 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-27.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:45:29 matimago: that's quite right. Please do try to remember that although lispers generally have a good grip on what is asked exactly, the rest of the world doesn't. A question like mine would probably be accepted in about any other channel... Therefore the reasoning of fiveop was good (and welcome). I'll try to express myself better next time in this channel 08:46:01 them lispers are the cool dudes, and so very precise, too! 08:46:03 matimago: My guess on the arrogance of lispers (of what I regularly hear) is that it is simply a communication problem like this one. 08:46:43 H4ns: bunch of smug jerks if you ask me. 08:46:49 :) 08:46:49 ;) 08:46:57 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 08:47:19 sykopomp: you go back to wasting your life on eve, this is no place for you right now! 08:47:31 madnificent: :(...... 08:47:48 hey, don't give me those puppy eyes 08:47:52 ;_; 08:48:02 also, you need to appreciate the kindness of the lisp guys! 08:48:07 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:48:12 always friendly, here to help. 08:48:30 I am a lisp newbie and everyone here has been extremely friendly and helpful to me so far. 08:48:36 Hurrah. 08:48:43 Hurrah! 08:48:51 minion: chant 08:48:51 MORE ACCURATE 08:49:07 minion: chant 08:49:08 MORE ACCURATE 08:49:10 hmm 08:49:13 Stupid bot. 08:49:30 emacsphan: If you can manage to be ignorant without being stupid, then you'll do fine :) 08:49:45 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:50:09 and learn to be more accurate (in my case) 08:50:20 which needs coffee, which will be here soon 08:50:31 -!- nadan [n=ndan@unaffiliated/nadan] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:50:41 Zhivago: thanks 08:50:46 (}> 08:50:49 frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.129.3] has joined #lisp 08:50:54 whoah what was that I just typed 08:51:11 that's what I get for remapping my keyboard in Emacs 08:51:19 does someone here do lisp-coding in/for maxima? i mean to code using slime within maximas lisp? 08:51:26 zorgzorg2 [i=marra@130.236.136.254] has joined #lisp 08:51:37 Hi all 08:51:40 -!- jao [n=jao@54.Red-83-38-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 08:51:42 hi zorgzorg2 08:51:46 madnificent: it's sad. I'm out of ideas for what to code. 08:51:55 at least, ideas that make me -feel- like codin.g 08:52:01 C-t 08:52:18 emacsphan: C-c M-x butterfly-with-extra-call-from-cyborgs C-c C-u print-key-sequence instead (} C- ? 08:52:24 Did something happen to make-rotation-transformation in mcclim ? 08:52:54 sykopomp: care to search for an alternative name for cl-migrations and/or extend it (should be done quickly) 08:53:17 madnificent: far out 08:53:21 wtf is cl-migrations? 08:53:43 nevermind 08:53:44 madnificent: what about cl-pereslenie? 08:54:18 madnificent: what about Peregrino 08:54:19 ? 08:55:00 slapping cl- in front of everything has gotten as old as py-foo ;) 08:55:32 -!- woopdeedoo [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:56:29 stassats: what does pereslenie mean? 08:57:35 sykopomp: migrations is the equivalent of rails migrations. Which is basically a set of actions you have to run on a database to get it to a certain version (thus allowing you to setup new databases for your application, or reverting the database of your application to the schema of a previous version) 08:57:45 migration, in russian 08:57:50 sykopomp: basically its no code, but cl-migrations looks dirty 08:58:07 stassats: you russian? 08:58:24 i guess 08:58:34 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:59:08 stassats: would you split peresledit too, please? Pere is like "trans-" in English, is it? Sledit is to follow? 08:59:11 stassats: any other related short russian words that have something to do with the description above? 08:59:42 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 09:00:36 I'll just slap database-versioning on it for now 09:02:12 chrnybo: selenie, from the verb selit' for settle, would be like resettle 09:03:18 madnificent: funny, I just wrote my own little migrations thing for autobench 09:03:24 madnificent: do you do "down" migrations, too? 09:03:31 antifuchs: its probably exactly the same 09:03:34 antifuchs: yes 09:03:40 ah, then it isn't the same (: 09:03:46 antifuchs: let me paste it again :) 09:04:01 (I really don't see the point of "down", so am reluctant to support it (-:) 09:04:59 *antifuchs* BAHs at cl-bench/files/arrays.lisp. 09:05:08 nadan [n=ndan@unaffiliated/nadan] has joined #lisp 09:05:41 this seems to be the only one that has optional RUNS arguments, and the benchmark definitions rely on them being sensible. 09:05:51 madnificent pasted "database-versioning" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78669 09:06:04 antifuchs: I don't support fetching the current version yet, do you have that? 09:06:07 (so it's all :runs 1 in the benchmark definition, but the function it runs has its own number of runs. grrr) 09:06:12 antifuchs: yes, I'm a lazy bastard 09:06:24 madnificent: I do. I keep the names of migrations in a table, like rails >=2 does 09:07:21 antifuchs annotated #78669 "example from autobench" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78669#1 09:07:26 antifuchs: what name did you use? doesn't postgres have something special for that (I really have no idea), as creating a table would steal a table name. 09:07:52 I used schema_migrations, as that's the name that rails uses, too 09:08:14 Guys, is there much point in trying to work with statistical profiler in sbcl, given that x86 can screw the graph? 09:08:24 I suppose it's easier to not use up another name if another popular thing has already stolen one and isn't going to give it back (-: 09:09:02 *lichtblau* declares success 09:09:09 antifuchs: albeit true, it would ensure that you can't use the same database to use rails-migrations and lisp migrations at the same time 09:09:16 *antifuchs* declares lichtblau a winner 09:09:21 madnificent: yeah, would you want that? 09:09:40 antifuchs: I'm in doubt 09:09:49 me too (: 09:09:59 shiny, fast CommonQt on CCL/win32 09:10:00 madnificent: nevermind, I just watched too much "The Big Bang Theory" recently ;-) 09:10:00 I think whoever wants that deserves anything they get (: 09:10:13 (also, the migration names are very likely to be different anyway 09:10:22 lichtblau: AWESOME 09:10:27 matimago: I appreciated your comment. I gained an insight 09:10:41 jsnell: quick full-eval question for you: there are two interpreted-program-error definitions. Are they both needed? 09:10:55 lichtblau: so there's actually Qt bindings that work in win32? :-o 09:10:59 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 09:11:11 antifuchs: wait, you don't have a strict ordening on the migrations you perform? 09:11:22 antifuchs: woops, you do, sorry 09:11:27 And all I had to do was to comment out the line the win32 exception handler enters the debugger. 09:11:38 madnificent: they're sorted by name (: 09:11:40 This weird "exception" on that "foreign stack" can't be that bad if the program keeps running anyway, can it? 09:12:02 actually, I should probably move to 000000-somethingsomething instead of 0-somethingsomething, as migration number 10 will break things (: 09:12:12 or migration number 36, if I were to get creative 09:12:42 antifuchs: I've split the migration number from the rest for that reason 09:12:49 makes sense 09:13:07 antifuchs: with some effort you could go to 64, or even up to 95 (including space but avoiding /). 09:13:16 antifuchs: is there an easy way to insert the current unix system time in emacs? that would make it slightly easier to use (as the regular numbers are just there to get broken some day) 09:13:17 yeah, haha 09:13:35 madnificent: hmm, could be, not sure 09:13:35 Now someone needs to write a qlimacs and qlistener and we've got the perfect win32 development environment. 09:13:53 madnificent: C-u M-! date RET Thu Apr 16 11:13:51 CEST 2009 09:13:55 lichtblau: do we want that? 09:14:08 *matimago* cheats. 09:14:46 matimago: unix system time, as in: the number, not the created date 09:15:22 matimago: C-u m-! date +%s apparantly 09:16:18 -!- sundar [i=IceChat7@59.92.122.173] has left #lisp 09:16:48 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:19:14 -!- wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 09:19:34 wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 09:19:40 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.128.221.196] has joined #lisp 09:20:34 (ah, so /that/ is why arrays.lisp does that. it uses make-array, so calling it more than once, the setup overhead would be too high. makes sense, but then, no, it doesn't. 09:21:22 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 09:23:06 -!- emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:23:09 emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:23:13 -!- Noll_Noll [n=28@c-ee70e253.4542024--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:24:03 -!- zorgzorg2 [i=marra@130.236.136.254] has left #lisp 09:24:09 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:45 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 09:29:20 Noll_Noll [n=28@c-ee70e253.4542024--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:29:45 LostMonarch [n=roby@host60-211-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:31:05 -!- grkz is now known as grkz` 09:31:20 -!- koft [n=user@adsl-227-105-110.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:31:39 -!- emacsphan [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:32:56 -!- Soulman__ [n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:35:46 ejs1 [n=eugen@50-124-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:26 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA6AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:36:42 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 09:41:56 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 09:44:15 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:44:45 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 09:45:38 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:47:03 ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:47:14 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.231.123] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:48:45 Xof: no, I guess it made sense when the full evaluator was a less integrated component 09:50:06 antifuchs: is your system equivalent to rails migrations? I think they don't list every migration that has been done in the past (thus making your system superior to the rails migrations). I'm not certain though (and yet again, I am in doubt) 09:50:50 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:53:14 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:56:34 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-89-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:57:43 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@50-124-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:59:14 madnificent: nope, it's not really equivalent... and I don't think it needs the old migrations to be listed, either... 09:59:23 you can delete them at will, if you want (: 09:59:30 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:59:30 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:59:30 (I prefer not to, but there you go (-:) 09:59:55 jsnell: btw, I patched the cl-bench things a bit more; now array benchmarks can have their run count specified in tests.lisp, as well (: 10:00:32 -!- michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:00:37 michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has joined #lisp 10:02:01 antifuchs: you don't need to list the old migrations? Wont it rerun the migration if you run perform-missing-migrations then? Or are you talking about the defmigration part, and not the database table? 10:02:23 oh, the database table! 10:02:27 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 10:02:36 yes, that is how rails does it too, I think 10:03:12 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 10:03:33 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:04:12 that's nice 10:04:13 Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has joined #lisp 10:04:54 antifuchs: I'm going to steal some of your code, can I rerelease under MIT or BSD? 10:05:08 it's intended to be MIT-licensed anyway (: 10:05:10 go ahead! 10:05:20 w00t! comes to mind 10:06:24 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[away] 10:08:56 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 10:11:51 hello. where can one disable/switch off threading in slime? 10:12:33 (linux, sbcl, slime) 10:13:01 -!- Ogedei [n=user@e178192145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 10:13:21 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has joined #lisp 10:14:24 a guess: remove sb-thread from *features* before running slime? 10:15:34 Ragnaroek [i=54a6459c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5dc1da522b58df0a] has joined #lisp 10:15:51 wentbackward: thanks, i will look for how to do this ... 10:17:20 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:18:06 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/"] 10:19:36 trebor_dki: it's definitely what swank-sbcl.lisp checks for. I've run slime with a non-threaded sbcl. 10:20:44 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.128.221.196] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:21:36 frank_s_ [n=FrankS@41.145.129.3] has joined #lisp 10:21:43 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.128.221.196] has joined #lisp 10:22:15 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:23:12 wentbackward: i grepped my slime-directory for "*features*" but i did not find the place where *features* is set initially... 10:23:14 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-4578.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:24:35 Type *features* in your REPL. It's there by default. 10:24:59 trebor_dki: wentbackward has it wrong, look up swank:*communication-style* in the manual 10:25:03 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 10:25:39 it's unlikely to be a good idea to remove things from features which you haven't pushed onto there yourself 10:28:58 michaelw: hm, i tried locate .swank.lisp with no results... where can it hide? 10:29:12 trebor_dki: ~/.swank.lisp - it's for you to create 10:30:04 oh, obviously ... thanks. 10:30:51 _sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4AF05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:49 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:35:27 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 10:36:16 -!- frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.129.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:49:23 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:54:06 antifuchs: sorry to ask, but how would i control/switch on/off threading from emacs-side? should i overwrite ~/.swank.lisp before each start or is there a way to have a startup-file as parameter to slime? (i found something like (load-)user-init-file, load-site-init-file...) 10:54:33 swank should automatically load ~/.swank.lisp when it starts up 10:55:16 there should be no need to load it manually or anything 10:55:49 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.75.38] has joined #lisp 10:56:15 yes, i meant how to controll e.g. swank:*communication-style* from emacs-side (as far as i understand ~/.swank.lisp is lisp-side) - because sometimes i would like threading (while coding), sometimes not (if i want to save an image) 10:56:22 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-30-252.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 10:57:01 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-35-16.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:57:36 oh. that works entirely differently. 10:58:24 -!- WhitFlame [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:58:26 I have two clbuild directories with differently-parameterized SBCLs, and use slime-lisp-implementations and M-- M-x slime RET to run each 10:58:48 so you build one sbcl with threads and one without, and have two slime-lisp-implementation entries to start each one 11:01:54 ah, so it is only possible via creating two sbcl's. thank.s 11:02:40 sure. 11:03:39 -!- _sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4AF05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:04:04 i hoped to to write wrapper functions around slime like slime-with-threads slime-no-threads which should have been able to start swank with different swank:*communication-style*'s 11:04:23 frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.129.3] has joined #lisp 11:09:15 Ogedei [n=user@g225073076.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:09:31 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:10:07 but communication style just affects how slime will communicate with swank, not whether your sbcl has threads enabled or not 11:12:08 hm, i thought i tried save-lisp-and-die from a terminal-sbcl which worked, but within emacs-slime it didn;t - maybe i have to retry ... 11:14:10 dan_b [n=dan@82-68-20-86.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:15:03 -!- frank_s_ [n=FrankS@41.145.129.3] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:16:17 what does jpeg stuff in cl? I've found cl-jpeg which appears to be the same thing as cljl: vaguely concerend about the "not thread safe" warning on cliki, though 11:17:10 i retried and again in a terminal, the same sbcl-implementation does s-l-a-d as expected, so i thought if i put swank:*communication-style* to :fd-handler (sometimes) i would be able to use s-l-a-d, too. what am i thinking wrong? 11:18:05 -!- Ogedei [n=user@g225073076.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:19:17 hmm. it's right, too. bum 11:20:48 so, haha, fill-strings/adjustable rather seems to test my machine's page file than anything in particular 11:20:59 same for string-concat. argh. 11:22:46 borism [n=boris@195-50-204-145-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 11:24:46 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [] 11:25:51 -!- lichtblau [n=user@wallstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:28:14 antifuchs: I wrote a paper about that once 11:28:30 Xof: I remember ((: 11:30:51 I don't have the full text anymore, and the link to pcos's ecoop directory doesn't seem to work anymore 11:30:57 (not on citeseer, either, it seems) 11:31:51 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f49c8.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:32:58 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 11:33:59 (I notice now because despite reducing the run count and allocation size, it still starts going off into X GB resident territory... which is weird. 11:36:24 http://doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/papers/ 11:36:44 excellent, thanks 11:37:50 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6459c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5dc1da522b58df0a] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 11:38:21 -!- grkz` is now known as grkz 11:41:01 it seems that this is an outdated version of exactly i need: http://badbyteblues.blogspot.com/2007/06/save-slime-and-die.html 11:41:40 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:41 soooo. since deflate-file and fill-strings/adjustable (thanks, Xof!) have almost identical results, does anyone mind if I remove fill-strings/adjustable from the rotation? (: 11:42:41 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 11:43:27 first the function closes all swank-connections, then it kills all threads except the running one, then it sleeps for 1 second and runs s-l-a-d afterwards. 11:44:21 somehow swank::close-connection needs more parameters nowadays ... 11:45:22 malc_ [n=malc@78-86-4-156.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:48:34 cracki [n=cracki@45-221.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:49:16 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:52:09 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:21 mega1 [n=mega@53d83311.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:52:45 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:52:55 c|mell [n=cmell@p3211-ipbf2908marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:53:10 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 11:55:46 trebor_dki pasted "works so far, but is it correct? save-slime-and-die" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78675 11:55:51 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:57:11 -!- chrnybo [n=user@148.122.202.244] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 11:59:07 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 12:04:42 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:04:46 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 12:06:20 beach, therep 12:06:45 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host60-211-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:06:58 robyonrails [n=roby@host119-31-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:07:13 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-71-193-68-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:18 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 12:10:06 (or spiaggia ?) 12:10:36 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 12:12:02 lichtblau [n=user@wallstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 12:13:53 -!- sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:16:35 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:17:31 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-63.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:18:13 Ragnaroek [i=54a6459c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4aaa23b8b43b64bf] has joined #lisp 12:18:33 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p3211-ipbf2908marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:18:52 _sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4AF05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:19:01 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 12:19:12 c|mell [n=cmell@p2201-ipbf1509marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:22:12 -!- lichtblau [n=user@wallstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:22:32 lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:23:14 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host119-31-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 12:25:22 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:25:50 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:25:51 Jarbell [n=willijar@host86-153-179-59.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:46 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:29:51 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:35 crod [n=cmell@p3139-ipbf5004marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:35:23 -!- cracki [n=cracki@45-221.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 12:35:47 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:19 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:38:19 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 12:38:28 -!- dan_b [n=dan@82-68-20-86.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit ["leaving"] 12:39:52 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:39:59 also, walk-list/seq and /mess are completely broken (: 12:42:27 zlyptox [n=zlyptox@host86-174-157-175.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:43:00 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:43:32 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p2201-ipbf1509marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:44:20 (it resets a global variable to nil after the first round. that variable is supposed to hold a big list... well, not anymore (-:) 12:47:57 if you're actually fixing the tests, also have a look at the various taks 12:48:37 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:48:45 one of them is accidentally defined to call another one (iirc it was trtak that recursed to tak, instead of recursing to itself) 12:49:37 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 12:49:38 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 12:51:09 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:51:22 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has left #lisp 12:53:42 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 12:54:21 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@119.128.221.196] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:54:48 pls to rename altered tests 12:56:09 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:58 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 12:57:27 -!- mindCrime [n=chatzill@cpe-075-177-141-190.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [No route to host] 12:58:58 Xof: of course (: 12:59:00 jsnell: right. 12:59:05 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:59:07 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:49 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:00:06 Ogedei [n=user@g225073076.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:00:08 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:12 Xof: actually, I was just planning to record the results differently, so previous and current version of tests don't interfere with each other. 13:01:23 s/version/results/ 13:01:30 what's the rationale for renaming the tests? 13:02:14 if I were ever to repeat the analysis in my paper, it would suck to have to work out at which point some test name no longer corresponded to the same code 13:02:45 oh, and do you already have a version of the mrg123456 test that actually calls the benchmark functions instead of cl:random? 13:03:53 right. I store results with a key like (machine-name, benchmark-name, implementation, build flags). I'll probably extend this to (benchmark-name, benchmark-version) and the rest. that should take care of this, I hope 13:04:47 jsnell: haha, no, I don't 13:06:26 SandGorgon [n=user@122.162.231.123] has joined #lisp 13:08:09 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@wsip-70-168-132-106.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:40 -!- hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1176023512.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 13:08:49 also, the clos benchmarks are a bit peculiar. I'm adding some setup functions to avoid invoking the compiler on every run (for things where that isn't intended) 13:09:21 (like clos/method+after, which is supposed to measure only method calls... but ends up compiling :after methods on every run) 13:09:42 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-63.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:11:04 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 13:11:53 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:29 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:13:44 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:17:00 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:19:27 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-63.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 13:19:54 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-63.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 13:21:08 -!- rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151245.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:25:58 willb [n=wibenton@wireless297.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 13:26:28 madnificent: When you said hello to me yesterday, that was not me. 13:26:51 $ cmp output/cold-clisp-sbcl.core output/cold-sbcl-sbcl.core 13:26:55 $ I WIN! 13:27:31 Xof: grats 13:27:44 Xof: what'd you have to change? 13:28:28 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:28:36 Xof: now try on other architectures :-) 13:29:19 who knows the fun may go on 13:29:36 are there any mel-base gurus in the house? 13:30:25 Xof: wow, neat! 13:30:38 tritchey: I've used it a bit for imap : 13:30:56 but you really want Jochen. 13:31:20 I think my issue may be pop3 related 13:31:31 sending to mel-base-devel is a good first step (-: 13:31:33 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:31:51 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 13:32:16 I shot a message that way. The archives seems a little quiet, so I wasn't sure if it was still alive 13:32:46 your pop server software and version could be relevant 13:33:17 Star`Neo [n=admin@202.179.80.208] has joined #lisp 13:35:55 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:35:59 LeesyKate [n=loish@unaffiliated/leesykate] has joined #lisp 13:36:07 jestocost [n=cmell@p4117-ipbf4801marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:36:09 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:36:38 *dkcl* sighs. 13:36:47 this is a part of our ticketing system, so customers configure their own email account settings. 13:36:59 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:37:15 ldp [n=ldp@unaffiliated/ldp] has joined #lisp 13:37:37 -!- crod [n=cmell@p3139-ipbf5004marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:38:33 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.30.252] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:39:23 dlowe: lots and lots and lots 13:39:38 mega1: I'm sure, although actually the diff in src/compiler/x86 is teeny tiny 13:40:08 what's the remaining teeny tiny diff? 13:40:17 are you all bored to death regarding Qt FFI experiments yet? 13:40:19 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:33 oh, no 13:40:47 remaining? What's not in my git tree is lots of genesis fixups and a couple of transfer of work from genesis to cold-init 13:41:06 fixups not in the "fixup" sense but in the "I have to change this code it's broken" sense 13:41:13 the biggest brokenness was a missing :initial-element 0 13:41:30 Xof: you have a public git tree? 13:41:39 I'll push stuff out to my git tree for review this afternoon, with luck 13:41:46 dlowe: for stuff like this I have temporary git trees 13:41:50 *dlowe* nods. 13:42:14 http://rvw.doc.gold.ac.uk/sullivan/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=sbcl.git;a=summary 13:42:32 LostMonarch [n=roby@host119-31-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:43:27 Xof: you did not create a branch after all? 13:43:50 a branch of what? 13:44:02 looks like I was wrong about having fixed CCL, it's still broken. But the good news is that SBCL seems to work. 13:44:19 yay! 13:44:36 lichtblau: with the terrifying socket method, or other? 13:44:47 Go Us! Least Bad Free Lisp on Windows (for today) 13:45:03 Xof: a branch in your git tree 13:45:22 you asked about how to go about developing this on the git level 13:45:26 oh, right, yes 13:45:27 or was it something else? 13:45:52 I did create one branch, but I didn't do anything clever with the patches for testing (which are called "infrastructure:") in that log 13:46:18 e.g. I had better not commit http://rvw.doc.gold.ac.uk/sullivan/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=sbcl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9f0d6fde6926407d60933f6dba1404f34da08bc4;hp=601ac63712c45d18d3c29571d571fd57c8b681a2 to CVS :-) 13:47:11 the question is whether this might bring me closer to actually isolating the problem. 13:48:00 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:22 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 13:48:58 What I'm now is doing that instead of having a dozen DEFCFUNs with various argument and and return types, SBCL now knows only a trampoline function. Argument values are stuffed into a function-specific structure by CFFI, then the trampoline is called with only a pointer to that structure. 13:51:22 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:52:30 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:55:12 legumbre` [n=user@r190-135-53-29.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:55:13 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 13:55:29 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:13 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:20 -!- mrSpec is now known as pilot1123 14:02:10 -!- malc_ [n=malc@78-86-4-156.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 14:02:30 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:30 -!- pilot1123 is now known as mrSpec 14:03:15 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:17 save-slime-and-die works so far, but is it correct (http://paste.lisp.org/display/78675)? 14:07:37 -!- LeesyKate [n=loish@unaffiliated/leesykate] has left #lisp 14:08:05 -!- ldp [n=ldp@unaffiliated/ldp] has left #lisp 14:08:30 vy pasted "Size Bounded Two-Way Blocking FIFO Queue" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78680 14:09:53 antgreen [n=green@nat/redhat/x-13205b4ba75a372b] has joined #lisp 14:10:07 Can anybody see any possible dead-lock cases in above blocking queue implementation? 14:10:26 jsnell: so mrg32k3 segfaults when called multiple times... I think I'll let it call the implementation rng thing (: 14:10:36 antifuchs: I can't really figure anything else I'd need for a migration system... I've built it and used it. Do you remember anything you wanted to have in your system (if not, I can put it on github) 14:11:05 madnificent: nope, the forms I pasted were everything I'd needed & used (: 14:11:12 chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:36 goner [n=egon@cpe-66-66-157-183.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:50 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 14:11:54 antifuchs: I could add something very similar to that syntax to it, but I think it could be a cause for confusion (at least without docs) 14:12:06 sure, no worries 14:12:18 antifuchs: if the real benchmark doesn't work, the whole test should probably be removed. a test of the system rng speed isn't very interesting :-) 14:12:34 jsnell: solid plan. 14:12:52 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 14:13:10 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-14-90.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:17:26 Could someone help clarify some clisp package issues for me? 14:17:32 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 14:17:59 Wow CLSQL adds a huge amount of overhead! All that flexibility is expensive 14:18:08 goner: ask. we'll have the answer, or not. 14:18:57 although, fwiw, I think most of the people here use sbcl. 14:19:26 My IO bound process has gone from 171s down to 25s for the test cases. Just by querying the db and creating plain objects manually 14:20:07 what were you doing before? 14:20:12 the model thing? 14:20:20 I'm trying to use the OS package with clisp -Kfull 14:20:21 did you check that it was actually making sane queries? 14:21:01 if I use clisp and then type (os:uname) in the interpreter it works. If I run clisp -Kfull and type (os:uname) I get package "OS" not found error 14:21:31 I was using the sql-reader-syntax and queries that automatically generate the objects for me 14:22:17 goner: wfm 14:22:38 I'm not sure how to load OS manually, or even what package it's part of 14:22:44 matimago: ? 14:22:45 goner: how did you compile clisp? 14:22:59 through gentoo 14:23:00 rsynnott: Something like 30% of the cpu time was spent doing things in PCL, that has now gone. 14:23:09 Me too. 14:23:17 goner: Try: (posix:uname) 14:23:18 ah, that's slightly ridiculous 14:23:26 sounds almost like activerecord ;) 14:23:43 goner: what processor? 14:24:02 matimago: oooh, that worked! 14:24:17 Yeah, it's a trade off I guess! 14:24:24 what is the difference between posix: and os: ? 14:24:55 OS is a nickname to POSIX. 14:25:06 one is a standard the other a concept 14:25:09 (package-nicknames (find-package "POSIX")) 14:25:19 I still use CLSQL for all the other code as it's nice and simple. Just optimise out the heavy loading. Quite sweet really. 14:25:24 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 14:25:39 goner: so it should work. Perhaps you have loaded a library that redefines OS? 14:27:12 ah, clisp, sorry. 14:27:18 maybe something that is loaded as an extra feature with -Kfull option is overwriting the os: definition. That makes sense 14:27:55 http://dpaste.com/34321/ <- that's my -Kfull no -Kfull diff 14:27:59 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:28:10 Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:29 either way. changing os: to posix: worked in my case. thanks again matimago. 14:28:49 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 14:29:52 Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:18 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:31:28 c|mell [n=cmell@p3111-ipbf907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:32:20 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@p4117-ipbf4801marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:32:51 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:33:16 excuse-me, it looks like this is not the case, but is there a work-around in order to have a type specifier for homogenous lists ? (just to be sure) 14:33:24 vy annotated #78680 "Fix Bogus QUEUE-*PUSH Methods" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78680#1 14:33:28 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:05 goner: for k in base full ; do echo -n "$k "; clisp -K$k -norc -q -x '(find-package "OS")' ; done 14:34:06 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:34:31 lemoinem: yes, use SATISFIES 14:34:38 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-105-126.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:35:23 lemoinem: for an example: http://paste.lisp.org/display/27825 14:35:34 matimago: base # 14:35:34 full NIL 14:36:03 goner: there's something strange there. 14:36:27 I get base # / full #. 14:36:38 hmm 14:37:05 Ah, but this is with a clisp I compiled myself. Indeed, with gentoo's I have the same results as you. 14:37:18 okay 14:37:18 matimago: thanks 14:37:21 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:37:32 different version? 14:37:41 linux distros tend to bundle scary antique lisps 14:38:32 Well no gentoo is quite up to date, providing the latest clisp, 2.47. 14:39:59 -!- chessguy_work [n=chessguy@67-130-43-2.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:41:27 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 14:42:04 sbcl I think was bugged in gentoo until just recently, glad they fixed it 14:42:52 Had interrupt depth issues with stumpwm, updated sbcl and all modules + reinstalled stumpwm and it worked better finally. I have had gentoo break too many things at times though :) 14:45:33 -!- lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:47:24 lat [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:48:04 Phaze [n=PhazeDK@0x5da32b16.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1104.soebnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:49:33 okay, dropped it at http://github.com/madnificent/database-migrations/tree/master 14:49:46 -!- _sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4AF05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:53:32 cool 14:54:33 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p3111-ipbf907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:54:35 antifuchs: if only that textile thing would try to understand that the content there is code :( 14:56:11 c|mell [n=cmell@p3111-ipbf907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:56:47 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:56:54 <_3b> madnificent: gets it right if you click on the readme.textile at least 14:57:10 <_3b> but then again, it displays the readme.textile even if you click on the other readme :/ 15:01:04 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:19 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [] 15:02:06 crod [n=cmell@p4160-ipbf7004marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:02:53 Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has joined #lisp 15:03:37 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:03:50 bdowning [n=bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:08 _3b: they should be the same, but thing is that github didn't want me to remove the standard readme for some strange reason... perhaps a hickup 15:05:28 _3b: it sent me straight to the description of what I had to do to setup the system 15:06:03 I'll try to redo that tomorrow... it's a nice way to hide that I had no structural commits ;) 15:06:55 vng [n=vuong@222.253.59.242] has joined #lisp 15:07:31 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:07:43 *_3b* needs to sign up for a github account or something 15:08:02 <_3b> since i'm too lazy to actually install a nice git UI on my site :p 15:08:56 <_3b> which isn't too surprising, sonsidering i think i wrote the main page on my site with touch 15:09:25 gitweb is in debian 15:09:41 (dunno if that counts as "nice") 15:09:55 <_3b> yeah, it probably wouldn't actually be much work 15:10:11 I found it less than getting a github account, fwiw 15:10:57 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:10:59 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483DBD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:10 -!- Jarbell [n=willijar@host86-153-179-59.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:11:49 _3b: I have redmine running for my personal planning around projects. Besides that I use github for stuff that may be handy for others 15:13:13 appletizer [i=user@82-45-11-91.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:13:46 wow. redmine looks a lot better than it did last time I looked at it 15:13:56 what is it? 15:14:04 ticket management system 15:14:28 looks on par with trac now 15:14:28 <_3b> cool, might have to try that at some point, been meaning to look into that sort of thing for a while 15:14:39 It's not too bad..rails is starting to perk my interest a bit more as well in general...I used to hate both ruby/rails quite a bit. 15:14:41 we've been using trac, but it's awful. 15:14:58 What didn't you like about trac? 15:15:01 Fade: really? I've only heard good things about trac from subversion users 15:15:05 I've been using trac a bit, and I don't find it utterly terrible 15:15:10 it's not debbugs 15:15:14 it has nice features, but it really doesn't scale. 15:15:15 but it's not bugzilla either 15:15:18 it's good for small groups. 15:15:19 The trac git integration is pretty terrible 15:15:30 *_3b* can never tell where to find anything when i hit a trac site 15:15:40 dlowe: exactly 15:15:46 no git, no party 15:15:50 heh, yeah...I haven't had much for problems here, but I use it only to track my own tasks. 15:15:56 I find trac + svn + git-svn tolerable 15:15:56 if redmine acts like trac except with better git functionality, I'm sold 15:15:57 so far we're using darcs. 15:15:57 It does support git, just not super well. 15:16:47 mega1 (and others): http://rvw.doc.gold.ac.uk/sullivan/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=sbcl.git;a=summary now includes the genesis fixes 15:16:57 <_3b> github doesn't have any built-in issue tracking stuff right? 15:17:34 Not to my knowledge 15:17:46 I've been kinda inbetween on using git or bzr 15:17:50 bzr + redmine works really well 15:17:55 not sure about git, though. 15:18:25 we've run into problems with darcs where we have some old repos that aren't compatible with the darcs in use. 15:18:30 sort of a PITA. 15:18:33 apo_ [n=apo@pD9E7FCB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:16 mercurial looks nice, but we'll probably end up switching to git. 15:19:34 -!- apo [n=apo@pD9E7D8FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:19:47 malcolm_reynolds [n=malc@78-86-4-156.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:19:55 What language do you use at your company Fade? 15:19:59 I mean, the primary language? 15:19:59 -!- Star`Neo [n=admin@202.179.80.208] has left #lisp 15:20:06 common lisp, c and python 15:20:38 I'd realy look into bazaar then, for the python stuff. 15:20:48 our primary langauge is probably python. 15:20:53 I developed some really nice plugins that integrate with redmine with bazaar 15:21:03 but i've actively been trying to sell lisp systems to our clients. 15:21:06 I wish python was used more here..makes me seriously a sad panda 15:21:10 the resistance is quite formidable. ;) 15:21:25 hah, yeah..been trying to get more people here to use Python too. 15:21:39 python is an easy sell these days. 15:21:41 Fade: that's almost a vendor lock-in 15:21:43 My department here is nearly totally ruby. 15:21:54 google seems to have made python an easy sell 15:22:02 on the 'good enough for google' axis. 15:22:17 *_3b* finds it easy to sell lisp to clients, if you avoid actually having any clients :p 15:22:21 I have a weak preference for ruby over python 15:22:37 i've even tried making pretty deep discounts on projects executed in common lisp, but there's a pretty strong fear that lisp programmers are very expensive. 15:22:57 I'd be more worried that they're hard to find 15:22:57 which is probably true. 15:23:01 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:23:19 dlowe: scarcity is irrevocably coupled to cost, generally. 15:23:34 Yeah, the lisp thing is funny, I'm the only lisp-ie person that's a staff member at this university...horribly java/C# dependent here. 15:23:48 <_3b> scarcity of lisp work balances that out a bit, if you assume lisp programmers want to work in lisp 15:24:05 There are a few, but very few people who use lisp that are faculty members. 15:24:12 _3b: that's true, but we're talking about perception. 15:24:12 <_3b> i'd probably charge less for lisp work than php work for example :) 15:24:32 Fade: that's only true for comestible goods 15:24:43 clients are used to just executing their development staff and hiring new staff to work on their java porridge. 15:24:51 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:24:56 -!- wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:25:04 so when they say "lisp programmers are expensive" what they mean is "irreplacable". 15:25:19 <_3b> true, finding them might be more expensive 15:25:46 <_3b> and people on the mcdonalds scale of interchangeable workers probably don't want lisp anyway 15:27:05 i'm just saying I haven't yet found a shoehorn to get lisp into our commercial projects. 15:27:14 i thought discounts would work, but the fear is strong. 15:27:48 we have a lot of internal systems in lisp. 15:28:06 er, fungible goods, I meant 15:28:12 *dlowe* needs more coffee. 15:28:25 If you have any chance to work in lisp, you're lucky....I get strong pressure when I write my stuff in python here 15:28:29 -!- jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:28:50 if I write a migration script, or anything in python, I get certain eye perks from various ruby people here...and what I can do is very limited. 15:28:50 i've only done a little ruby, in connection with amarok. 15:29:15 but it's in that group of languages that flip my 'too much syntax' bit. 15:29:48 -!- goner [n=egon@cpe-66-66-157-183.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:29:51 ruby felt slow and leaky in my limited use. 15:30:18 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p3111-ipbf907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:30:31 python is fine. it's just not lisp. 15:30:35 Ruby is getting a speed boost lately - but I know too many people that seem to belong to the "church of ruby", and it's that mentality that I really hate about the community. 15:30:57 it's broken lambda used to make me pretty crazy, but since they added list comprehensions, not so much. 15:31:31 *_3b* never got past the syntactic whitespace 15:31:39 that never bothered me. 15:31:51 i don't mind syntax I don't have to pay attention to. 15:31:53 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 15:31:53 it's like the parens in lisp 15:31:55 emacs takes care of the whitespace thing for me. 15:32:01 _sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B599.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:32:02 ditto 15:32:17 it's the arbitrary ','s and ';'s that make me nuts. 15:32:20 is there something close to an official svn / cvs / git source for sbcl? I'm just reinstalling my ubuntu box and 1.0.18 seems to be the latest they have in apt.. 15:32:33 <_3b> i like the redundancy of automatic indentation matching up with what i think the code is doing 15:32:35 every time I have to write something in javascript, I'm just swearing my head off for the first couple of hours. 15:32:53 oh agred there Fade, doing PHP stuff right now and it's full of that kinda general stuff - at least the way this framework is built. 15:33:06 malcolm_reynolds: official cvs, indeed 15:33:15 of all the languages in current use, I think I hate php most. 15:33:18 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:33:20 malcolm_reynolds: git://sbcl.boinkor.net/sbcl.git 15:33:29 <_3b> yeah, the built in library aspect of php is annoying :( 15:33:49 <_3b> sorry, this function doesn't work in this version... too bad you can't get the version upgraded on the server 15:33:51 I kinda got stuck in the PHP thing since so many PHP programmers aren't very good. 15:34:04 It's also used a lot here..but I'm not a fan of it. 15:34:28 Everything is transitioning to ruby now, and I'm not a huge fan of that either - so yeah :) 15:34:33 then /w javascript I go through that phase where I'm just wishing they had left it as scheme. 15:34:36 fe[nl]ix: thanks. am I right in thinking I need some already working cl implementation to compile sbcl? 15:35:00 <_3b> malcolm_reynolds: right, sbcl is best choice, but you might still want to avoid the distro package 15:35:16 the official sbcl repository is the cvs at sourceforge 15:35:17 malcolm_reynolds: you can download one of the official binaries from sbcl.net 15:35:45 there's nothing particularly wrong with the boinkor git mirror: it's just not "official" (in case that matters) 15:35:50 <_3b> isn't it sbcl.org? 15:36:25 as long as it's not some crazy experimental fork, that will do fine for me. and it being git is a bonus. 15:37:02 _3b: right 15:37:28 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:37:33 When updating sbcl, is there an easy way to recompile all the packages? Had to do that manually last time and that was a bit annoying 15:37:57 use clbuild and generate a new image and your support packages. 15:38:26 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 15:38:31 TDT: you could use asdf-binary-locations and rm -rf ~/.fasls/sbcl-$VERSION 15:38:42 <_3b> TDT: try the bit in http://www.cliki.net/asdf 15:38:48 sohum_ [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has joined #lisp 15:39:03 <_3b> TDT: (the first chunk of code for stale .fasls that is) 15:40:13 *nod* thanks, yeah, reading the asdf one right now but sounds like pretty much all revolve around the same general solution. 15:43:44 Fade: ruby/rails is slow when not in production mode... the real limitation is the database, as that doesn't scale well (but activerecord does that nicely) 15:43:49 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:30 the thing with ruby is, it doesn't win me anything I don't already have in python. 15:44:34 and I know python well. 15:44:39 drewc: redmine is tickets + milestones + projects/subprojects + easy to setup (but that may be because I've been a rails dev) 15:45:03 Fade: well, rails does things right, ruby is a nice language... and so is python :) 15:45:08 Good evening. 15:45:12 hey beach 15:45:23 hello beach 15:45:26 Fade: I'm trying to break away from rails too, trying to get some lisp here :) 15:45:32 and hello beach 15:45:33 chao anh 15:45:35 hi beach, Fare 15:45:37 madnificent: Actually there's a number of issues with the way activerecord works - in the specific case of reporting. 15:45:52 salue, fe[nl]ix 15:46:11 TDT: feel free to shoot them at me, most of the stuff is overridable (but I must admit that I have hacked the rails source for some specifics) 15:46:44 Xof: some comments in the code, commit message about the purpose will make the maintainance programmer's life easier. For example it may not be evident a year from now what would break by letting constant vectors be of different lengths. 15:47:28 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 15:47:29 madnificent: I'd have ot get some exact code for that then - we've had issues with reporting where it'd pull every record in a database into memory to do reporting on it, instead of running the specific sql commands needed to deal with database operations. 15:51:21 mega1: but I didn't change anything there! All I changed was the order of allocating the constant vectors 15:51:30 no, wait, fixup vectors 15:52:00 TDT: ahh yes, you need to understand what happens in the backend (that's true for every thing btw) 15:52:19 TDT: from the second you use rails-code somewhere, it pulls everything in. 15:53:15 that is partially the error of lame databases IMHO. In many cases what you try to do in rails, simply isn't possible in the database (or at least not in an abstract manner, so it works in all supported databases) 15:55:32 the x86 calling convention changes are ported to x86-64 15:56:03 http://quotenil.com/git/?p=sbcl.git;a=shortlog;h=x86-calling-convention 15:56:03 madnificent: Yeah, one thing I like about Django better in that area is you can define logic at the interaction between the database (like the model, but lower than that), to define how to grab data - the benefit of that is you can avoid grabbing more than one needs. 15:56:03 what remains is changing the internals doc 15:56:10 i haven't done much with django, but i've used turbogears. 15:56:38 jestocost [n=cmell@p1244-ipbf4701marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:56:42 TDT: yes, that's a nice feature... do note that I'm not claiming that rails is superior to everything. I wouldn't be moving out in that case 15:57:03 TDT: you're welcome in #lispweb for further discussion though (its somewhat much offtopic here) 15:57:16 With these changes x86oids will diverge from other archs, but the internals manual explains all archs by x86 examples. 15:57:49 So we will be left with two sets of x86 centric descriptions: one for x86 and x86-64 and one for the rest ... 15:58:30 madnificent: *nod* yeah I agree with you about it being offtopic here, and lispweb, can't say I've bene there but might as well :) 15:59:31 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:00:01 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:00:33 -!- sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:00:35 -!- crod [n=cmell@p4160-ipbf7004marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:00:40 Xof: did we agree on anything last time 80 char lines were brought up? 16:02:09 crod [n=cmell@p2061-ipbf5405marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:02:13 I don't remember any agreement 16:02:22 but my head is full of cotton wool at the moment 16:05:41 -!- Spyderco [n=nash@194.45.110.65] has quit [] 16:06:01 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 16:07:03 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit [Client Quit] 16:08:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/78683 is the end of running cd tests && sh ./run-tests.sh after compiling sbcl. does that look okay to people? last line worries me a little.. 16:09:52 malcolm_reynolds: echo $OS_TYPE? 16:10:23 linux 32 bit 16:10:41 2.6.28 if that matters.. 16:11:00 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:19 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:11:26 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:52 malcolm_reynolds: type that in the shell 16:12:08 just gives me a blank line 16:13:48 and this is latest source from the boinkor mirror, if that makes a difference 16:13:59 than it's a well known problem in sbcl tests, not in sbcl itself 16:14:05 *then 16:14:32 okay good, so the binary i've just compiled will be fine? 16:14:37 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-64-175-33-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:15:21 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@wsip-70-168-132-106.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 16:16:58 rread [n=rread@12.155.31.10] has joined #lisp 16:19:52 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:21:27 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 16:22:58 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@ABordeaux-253-1-161-244.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:24:15 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:24:45 -!- legumbre` is now known as legumbre 16:26:14 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:48 -!- rread [n=rread@12.155.31.10] has quit [] 16:27:42 malcolm_reynolds: yes 16:29:19 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@p1244-ipbf4701marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:32:05 jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@74.125.59.1] has joined #lisp 16:32:29 -!- tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has left #lisp 16:32:37 jestocost [n=cmell@p3212-ipbf21marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:32:48 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:42 erk [n=MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 16:35:06 dwave [n=ask@084202073031.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 16:36:29 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 16:36:43 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:38:17 -!- Athas [n=athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:38:42 -!- dwave [n=ask@084202073031.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Client Quit] 16:42:00 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 16:44:14 -!- crod [n=cmell@p2061-ipbf5405marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:46:19 milanj [n=milan@79.101.149.120] has joined #lisp 16:52:10 dwave [n=ask@084202073031.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 16:55:04 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.NET] has quit [] 16:56:51 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:30 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 17:02:03 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:08 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6459c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4aaa23b8b43b64bf] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 17:08:06 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:12:35 nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:35 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:14:17 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 17:16:45 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:16:50 -!- Noll_Noll [n=28@c-ee70e253.4542024--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:17:12 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:18:13 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-11-102.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:19:04 Is there a way to do this without regex-replace-all? http://paste.lisp.org/display/78691 I just want to make it looks nicer for human being by inserting a newline. 17:19:40 Noll_Noll [n=28@c-ee70e253.4542024--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:20:21 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:29 tomoyuki28jp: remove 17:20:33 ,clhs remove 17:20:47 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:20:48 clhs remove 17:20:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm 17:21:12 fe[nl]ix: Anyway I have to use a function to do that? 17:21:21 (format nil "12324~2344234~1234") 17:21:33 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:21:35 <_3b> might see if cl-interpol would let you escape newlines 17:21:36 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:22:11 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:22:28 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-33.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:22:35 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:22:40 <_3b> (not sure it would justify a reader macro though, unless you need it a lot) 17:22:50 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 17:22:53 using third-party reader-macros would look "WTF?" for the redaer 17:23:06 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-45-11-91.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:23:17 arwed [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:23:22 <_3b> i'd pick a moderately common 3rd party reader macro over a custom one at least :) 17:23:30 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:23:49 (remove #\Newline "some~%string~%split") is cleaner than what you have. 17:24:42 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-33.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 17:24:47 or format, where you can explicitly say where to remove, and where not 17:24:58 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 17:25:12 -!- arwed [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:25:41 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:27:38 minion: logs 17:27:38 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 17:31:59 *stassats* made M-./M-, analogs for elisp for easier browsing of the slime code 17:32:44 -!- tweek__ is now known as tweek 17:36:56 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 17:38:25 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:38:26 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:41:04 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:21 -!- REPLeffect_ [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:45:25 blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:53 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 17:46:11 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:46:54 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 17:46:56 REPLeffect_ [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:47:21 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-4578.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 17:51:17 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 17:51:53 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 17:52:12 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [Client Quit] 17:53:21 HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 17:54:29 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:54 -!- chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:56:45 chii [i=chii@freenode/bot/chii] has joined #lisp 18:00:23 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@p3212-ipbf21marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:02:10 -!- gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 18:02:27 c|mell [n=cmell@p2042-ipbf503marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:03:06 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:03:11 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 18:03:30 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 18:07:28 -!- vng [n=vuong@222.253.59.242] has left #lisp 18:08:17 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:10:20 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 18:11:08 tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:23 -!- dwave [n=ask@084202073031.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 18:12:37 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 18:15:14 dwave [n=ask@084202073031.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 18:17:08 I have a macro (defmacro web-defun (name web-lambda-list &body body) ...) that does not indent like defun/def* in SLIME. any idea how to get it to indent in the same manner? 18:17:41 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:19:00 gonzojive: C-M-x 18:19:08 gonzojive: then it will indent properly 18:19:39 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 18:20:17 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-199-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:02 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:24:43 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:25:28 gonzojive pasted "Funky indentation of &body macros" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78695 18:25:42 dlowe: I still get the same results after C-M-x, it seems 18:26:29 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-199-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:26:30 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 18:26:34 gonzojive: are you sure web-defun is in the webfunk package? 18:30:09 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:30:14 yes 18:30:49 I've got nothing, then. 18:31:21 dlowe: I have also tried defining it in cl-user... 18:31:34 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:31:59 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-e336afb847aba00b] has joined #lisp 18:32:07 gonzojive annotated #78695 "also fails in this case" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78695#1 18:33:02 crod [n=cmell@p1158-ipbf6310marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:33:26 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 18:34:01 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-e336afb847aba00b] has quit [Client Quit] 18:34:17 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-396f67682f9859f0] has joined #lisp 18:34:49 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-11-102.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:38:30 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:38:42 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable085.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:39:17 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 18:42:06 gonzojive: did you try M-x slime-update-indentation ? 18:42:28 drewc: yes 18:43:11 gonzojive: what is the value of LISP-INDENT-FUNCTION in emacs? 18:43:51 drewc: common-lisp-indent-function 18:44:28 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087CF23.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:32 gzip4_ [n=xxx@ws102.zone134.zaural.ru] has joined #lisp 18:44:38 is it possible that I am in the wrong mode? the mode says REPL ElDoc and Lisp ElDoc Slime for the repl/lisp file respectively 18:45:11 gonzojive: what is eldoc? 18:46:05 not that it matters here.. i get the correct identation regardless. 18:46:36 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-144-151.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:47:31 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:48:06 -!- malcolm_reynolds [n=malc@78-86-4-156.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 18:48:16 drewc: I don't know, but it says that at the bottom of the emacs window. i think it has something to do with "flashing argument lists in the minibuffer" 18:49:11 gonzojive: right, but slime does that for CL, so you don't need it. regardless, it still should indent properly! 18:49:46 gonzojive: are you using the latest slime/sbcl combo? 18:50:04 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:37 drewc: I think I am not requiring "slime-indentation" 18:51:00 yes, the latest SLIME and a recent SBCL 18:51:31 the next question would be 'what slime contribs are you loading', but i think you're already ahead of me on this one :) 18:51:49 -!- froog_ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:52:49 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable085.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:53:48 froog_ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 18:54:24 -!- gzip4 [n=xxx@ws102.zone134.zaural.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:54:54 cool, I think it works now. this used to work and then I think the default contribs got changed around. thanks for the help :) 18:57:18 malc_ [n=malc@78-86-4-156.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:57:49 why is CL in the *inferior-lisp* buffer in SLIME? is that because of inferior is a synonym for common or were the SLIME programmers just emacs lisp lovers? 18:58:21 -!- malc_ [n=malc@78-86-4-156.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:58:24 gonzojive: it's inferior because elisp is controlling it 18:59:08 and it sounds nicer than *slave-lisp* 18:59:13 though not by much 19:00:14 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Client Quit] 19:00:14 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:00:56 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p2042-ipbf503marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:01:54 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 19:02:30 quotemstr [n=danc@64.61.107.66] has joined #lisp 19:02:48 How am I supposed to spell (loop initially collect value)? 19:03:55 quotemstr: what are you trying to do? 19:03:58 quotemstr: you can't do that. 19:04:36 I'd like to put some items on the result list before the loop itself begins executing. 19:04:52 (I could just use (append initial-items (loop ...)) of course, but I'd rather do it inside loop if I can. 19:05:02 using append seems like the saner option 19:05:07 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-199-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:05:26 with foo = (xxx) collect value into foo finally (return foo) 19:05:35 possibly 19:05:41 possibly not 19:06:15 don't think so, no 19:06:59 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:07:28 That doesn't seem to DTRT. 19:07:38 no, fair enough 19:10:21 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 19:14:23 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:14:36 -!- gzip4_ is now known as gzip4 19:15:25 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:16:25 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 19:17:00 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:18:15 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:20:50 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 19:24:07 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [] 19:24:15 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:26:37 hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:28:11 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 19:30:17 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:31:03 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-9-93.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 19:31:29 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-27.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:31:48 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:33:03 jestocost [n=cmell@p4177-ipbf6609marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:34:34 Thanks. 19:34:35 -!- quotemstr [n=danc@64.61.107.66] has left #lisp 19:34:37 -!- hugod [n=hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [] 19:35:30 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 19:36:11 Ragnaroek [i=54a6459c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9c8ab9fbaeecf455] has joined #lisp 19:36:53 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 19:37:12 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 19:38:29 -!- crod [n=cmell@p1158-ipbf6310marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:41:27 can someone point me to an (sbcl) implementation of With-Readtable-Iterator 19:42:01 paper about it: http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/with-readtable-iterator.pdf 19:43:34 francogrex [n=francogr@91.180.245.93] has joined #lisp 19:43:44 -!- francogrex [n=francogr@91.180.245.93] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:44:18 bobbysmith007: http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/darcs/editor-hints/named-readtables/cruft.lisp 19:44:29 francogrex [n=francogr@91.180.245.93] has joined #lisp 19:44:32 -!- francogrex [n=francogr@91.180.245.93] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:45:25 -!- _sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B599.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:46:25 lichtblau: thanks, I started there but must have missed it 19:46:35 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:48:04 francogrex [n=francogr@91.180.245.93] has joined #lisp 19:48:14 -!- francogrex [n=francogr@91.180.245.93] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:48:48 tns [n=mehdi@put92-6-88-165-36-162.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:33 -!- tns [n=mehdi@put92-6-88-165-36-162.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 19:51:49 -!- legumbre [n=user@r190-135-53-29.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:51:56 legumbre [n=user@r190-135-53-29.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:53:43 elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:54:15 francogrex [n=francogr@91.180.245.93] has joined #lisp 19:54:19 -!- francogrex [n=francogr@91.180.245.93] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:56:43 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-199-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:05 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-237-196.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:47 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 20:02:21 _sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B599.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:02:24 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:02:48 jfactor [n=jfactor@student164-75.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 20:03:04 malc_ [n=malc@78-86-4-156.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:04:58 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 20:10:15 benny [n=benny@i577A14D8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:10:57 kenston [n=kenston@91.180.245.93] has joined #lisp 20:10:58 let's assume I want to build a CL compiler, do I have to implement read twice? once in the compiler and once in the runtime-library? 20:11:04 -!- kenston [n=kenston@91.180.245.93] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:11:20 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-33.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 20:12:12 Ragnaroek: why would you? they can both use the same code 20:12:17 anyone know of a good site to begin learning lisp 20:12:39 nadan, http://gigamonkeys.com/book perhaps 20:12:48 minion: tell nadan about pcl 20:12:49 doh 20:12:49 nadan: have a look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 20:13:22 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-20.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:13:25 tic_, aye i have that site bookmarked tic 20:13:33 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:14:19 nadan: now you just need a REPL to play.... 20:14:28 oh am using allegro 20:14:33 oh, let's assume further I want to implement a compiler in Java 20:14:41 e.g. 20:15:13 nadan: well... get your fav. hot drink and hunker down for some reading and hacking 20:15:14 you can implement runtime in java as well 20:15:29 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:15:43 The_Cheat1 [n=chatzill@ool-182f8b33.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:09 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C8AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:52 tsuru, almost finished with common lisp a gentle introduction to symbolic computation david s touretzky was a decent introduction... just was preplannin on what to go to next 20:17:25 nadan: PCL is a good next step... 20:18:05 cool will do that... in hindsight (newbie programmer all around) very glad i found that touretzky book online, definantly bridged a gap. 20:18:15 if I want to make read available at runtime, I have to implement the whole thing in CL too 20:18:34 Ragnaroek: why? 20:20:22 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:20:33 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:39 and if follow your logic, you'd have to implement compiler at least twice too 20:21:15 oh wait, I forget a detail 20:21:43 assume I want to implement a compiler (in Java) of CL that compiles to JavaScript 20:21:59 that doesn't change anything 20:23:46 hypno [n=hypno@195.43.248.100] has joined #lisp 20:24:48 the only thing is "why the hell you want to write lisp compiler in java"? 20:25:26 -!- benny` [n=benny@i577A1576.versanet.de] has quit [Success] 20:25:52 crod [n=cmell@p2191-ipbf33marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:26:04 would be interesting if you threw it on an android (java) based os o.o 20:26:21 we already have abcl 20:26:42 nifty 20:27:00 because it builds character ;) 20:28:18 so... they say when writing a program its best if what it works with is in the same language... my ultimate goal is to build a desktop assistant of sorts (in linux) so thats C++ based, if i'm not mistaken, would it be better to learn C++ or it shouldn't be a factor 20:29:17 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@p4177-ipbf6609marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:29:38 what's C++ based? 20:30:33 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:30:49 71% of linux is C based no? n i wanna make a bot that will essentially be a user of linux. 20:31:03 ??? 20:31:46 a "desktop assistant" fires of vivid pictures of talking gems in my head, and i have a hard time imagine linux users beeing interrested in such applications, but certainly, lisp is by no means of limits for such an application. 20:31:56 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:32:25 shell scripts is a "desktop assistant" 20:33:27 eh... thats what it is if u have it premade... dunno... my idea is to have it do things i want it to do... send a text over aim to go to a certain page and download a torrent of a show that just came out.... or hell turn on an application while i'm in another room or put a movie on the display or send a file without actually connecting to it 20:33:58 jestocost [n=cmell@p3238-ipbf4104marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:34:17 nadan: you're losing good time with PCL right now :) 20:34:32 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:34:43 i haven't slept in 24 hours... not a good time to study (or think for that matter) lol 20:34:51 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:35:32 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:35:42 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 20:36:06 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-4578.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:36:45 In order to implement the compiler I need something like read - correct? 20:36:51 Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 20:36:54 -!- sohum_ is now known as sohum 20:36:55 nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:36:58 -!- Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:37:40 typically that's something shell scripts are for, nadan 20:38:02 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:42 elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:42:54 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:46:07 -!- dwave [n=ask@084202073031.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:46:46 -!- The_Cheat1 [n=chatzill@ool-182f8b33.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:51:43 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-199-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:52:02 Is there some way to call a system call in CCL without the #_ reader macro? 20:52:55 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:52:59 psheldr [n=Miranda@p5B03B084.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:53:12 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 20:54:30 dlowe: try macroexpanding a call to a #_ function 20:55:39 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:55:44 dlowe: is it for that LW problem in local-time ? 20:55:49 fe[nl]ix: yes 20:56:02 #_ seems to expand to a arch-dependent package 20:56:10 then just put the ccl-specific code into a separate file 20:56:45 I'm trying to decide if that's more or less horrifying than defining it in an :around compile-op method 20:56:51 it's the least troublesome solution 20:58:35 yeah, I'll probably end up doing that. 21:00:30 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:48 -!- crod [n=cmell@p2191-ipbf33marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:02:44 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.115.207.78] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:03:19 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.115.207.78] has joined #lisp 21:03:50 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 21:03:57 crod [n=cmell@p1109-ipbf2904marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:04:07 is there a way i can store 64-bit integers in sbcl without a tag? 21:04:32 elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:04:36 64 bit platform? Use specialised vectors or structures. 21:06:14 x86-64, specialised vectors --- what do you mean? 21:07:11 (make-array n :element-type '(unsigned-byte 64)). 21:07:41 i see 21:09:03 that's for chess bitboards, i need several of them, so vectors is what i need, thanks 21:09:31 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:10:39 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-112-110.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:27 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has left #lisp 21:12:52 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:14:58 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d83311.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:15:13 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:16:21 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@p3238-ipbf4104marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Operation timed out] 21:17:05 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 21:17:07 How does sbcl/slime/swank determine which package a defun is in when it is compiled with slime-compile-defun? I assume it is looking for a in-package form somewhere higher in the file. 21:17:09 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:17:50 why are you asking, isn't it working? 21:18:06 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 21:18:15 -!- zlyptox [n=zlyptox@host86-174-157-175.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:18:20 nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:19:18 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:19:30 hugod [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1176023512.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:19:31 rme: ping 21:19:52 fe[nl]ix: here 21:19:56 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:20:18 stassats: well I was looking at using the named-readtables pacakge and wanted to wrap my in-package and in-readtable in a macro that expands to the two forms, but then slime doesnt work anymore 21:20:54 right 21:21:00 which got me wondering, how does it actually do that, and upon much further inspection I am stumped 21:21:24 yes, it does parsing on the emacs side 21:21:27 fe[nl]ix pasted "clozurecl build error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78704 21:22:12 stassats`: so thats just not ever going to work, since it doesnt have a chance of expanding any forms (even at readtime) 21:22:18 anyway, sbcl itself won't be much happy without in-package on the read-time 21:22:25 rme: I got that error in trying to compile ccl with the Gentoo package manager 21:22:44 stassats`: I thought as much, but I was hoping to get around this by #. the macro 21:22:56 oh well, I guess 21:23:25 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:23:33 elias` [n=me@cs78208074.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:23:57 rme: any ideas ? 21:24:09 is that the trunk ccl? 21:24:26 it's the release 1.3 21:24:52 I have been thrashing about various schemes for enabling syntaxes for months off and on. I have tried syntax-sugar and now named-readtables as well as every libraries somewhat different scheme for enabling/disabling, but nothing is entirely satisfactory. 21:24:53 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:25:18 martyziff [n=user@91.109.17.54] has joined #lisp 21:25:51 rme: I'm almost sure that this is caused by some weird interaction between ccl and the compilation sandbox 21:26:36 fe[nl]ix: Nothing rings a bell right off hand. 21:27:55 You could try (xload-level-0) separately, so that you could type "b" at the kernel debugger prompt to see if a backtrace gives any hints. 21:28:21 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:28:45 that went ok 21:29:06 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 21:29:12 the error seems to be triggered when reloading ./l1-fasls/l1-pathnames.lx32fsl 21:29:17 Then you'd start up with the boot image with, e.g., ./lx86cl x86-boot32.image 21:29:51 Presumably that'll fail during/after loading l1-pathnames. 21:31:07 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:56 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6459c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9c8ab9fbaeecf455] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:35:00 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 21:36:38 JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:14 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:38:40 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:13 does anyone in here use cl-sdl? i'm trying to get it to install/run (so i can use it through poly-pen), but am having trouble with the uffi interface I believe. I get a type error about sb-alien-internals:alien-value vs. sb-alien:alien 21:40:34 i'll post it to lisppaste 21:41:00 many today use lispbuilder-sdl 21:41:09 JAS415: I think cl-sdl is old and unmaintained, maybe you could try lispbuilder-sdl instead. 21:42:09 <_3b> you might also find vecto interesting, depending on what sort of things you want to draw 21:42:20 fe[nl]ix: We also set up ccl: and home: logical hosts at that time. I don't know anything about gentoo, but if the sandboxed build environment prevents it from figuring that out, that might cause trouble. 21:42:33 i was rather pleased with vecto when I was drawing tiles for my knight's tour app. 21:42:35 i'm mostly interested image manipulation I think 21:43:09 Jon pasted "Poly-pen/cl-sdl error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78710 21:44:20 <_3b> you could also see if cffi-uffi-compat works any better than real uffi 21:44:39 <_3b> and/or try older (or newer) versions of sbcl 21:44:49 rme: the compilation goes fine. it's just the image saving that fails 21:45:03 -!- Phaze [n=PhazeDK@0x5da32b16.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1104.soebnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:45:27 rme: the sandbox intercepts a whole lot of syscalls in order to prevent the build systems from accessing the system outside their own compilation directory 21:45:49 probably there's a bug in the sandbox, but I have no idea how to debug this 21:45:52 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 21:46:37 wow 21:46:43 lispbuilder looks really nice 21:46:56 ccl assembling raw paths during bootstrap instead of depending on the encasing system? 21:47:13 <_3b> yeah, lispbuilder would be the preferred solution if you didn't have a specific cl-sdl app to run :) 21:47:53 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:48:06 When compiling ccl, we create out a "bootstrapping image", which is created from an in-memory data structure by xload-level-0 21:48:13 Art07 [n=user@84.23.62.56] has joined #lisp 21:48:25 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:48:39 This bootstrapping image, when loaded, loads the rest of the fasl files that make up the lisp. 21:49:53 Well this is me fooling around with graphics stuff in lisp mostly, so lispbuilder it is :-) 21:51:14 Lisp is a hack. 21:52:12 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:49 Quadrescence: if you want to troll you should go to #electronics. they have the best raids 21:52:56 nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:53:01 Adamant: You're right. 21:54:28 Looks like he actually joined the channel. 21:54:57 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:55:16 -!- nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:55:32 fe[nl]ix annotated #78704 "more detailed backtrace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/78704#1 21:55:52 rme: what does "Unhandled exception 11" mean ? 21:56:10 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:57:00 SIGSEGV ? 21:57:03 fe[nl]ix: we got a SIGSEGV that we don't know what to do with. 21:58:41 It seems to be saying that it died in foreign code, in the index function. Bad C string pointer, maybe? 21:58:50 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C8AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:59:17 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host119-31-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 21:59:49 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:24 might be one of the three DEFLOADVARs in l1-pathnames.lisp 22:00:39 Unfortunately, the lisp backtrace isn't helpful; if you could somehow interact with the kernel debugger and get a backtrace, that might give a better hint. 22:00:42 can we do the "lisp==ai" bit again because that was fun 22:01:38 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:53 fe[nl]ix: can you do "lx86cl x86-boot32.image" within the compilation sandbox? 22:02:24 it says "Couldn't load lisp heap image from x86-boot32.image" 22:03:09 -!- antgreen [n=green@nat/redhat/x-13205b4ba75a372b] has left #lisp 22:03:11 or x86-boot32 or whatever its name is. sorry. 22:03:23 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 22:04:26 jestocost [n=cmell@p3238-ipbf4104marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:06:13 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 22:08:18 -!- _sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B599.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:09:35 -!- crod [n=cmell@p1109-ipbf2904marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:10:21 fe[nl]ix: back later. gbyers might be on #ccl 22:11:44 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483DBD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:12:28 fe[nl]ix: I heard lately that Age of Empires 2 had a lisp-like language for AI behaviour control... 22:14:05 -!- martyziff [n=user@91.109.17.54] has left #lisp 22:27:58 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-247-205-254.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:29:36 is julian stecklina here ? 22:29:58 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless297.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:30:12 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:42 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 22:30:56 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 22:34:00 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:34:52 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 22:36:12 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:38:25 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-233-254.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 22:39:14 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 22:40:12 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:41:21 Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 22:41:50 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-225.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:44:37 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 22:45:51 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:47:56 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 22:48:52 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 22:49:38 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:53:12 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 22:53:36 The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087E653.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:53 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 22:55:40 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:59:49 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:59:56 Adamant: I successfully trolled ##electronics 23:04:03 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:15 i mmh? 23:04:18 electronics? 23:05:48 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.179.197] has joined #lisp 23:07:07 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 23:08:21 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:08:23 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 23:09:01 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087CF23.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:09:59 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 23:11:47 -!- nvoorhies_ [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:11:50 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-20.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 23:12:39 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:24 -!- Art07 [n=user@84.23.62.56] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:14:29 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-20.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 23:15:33 -!- nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:15:43 nvoorhies [n=nvoorhie@adsl-75-36-207-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:17 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:20:07 -!- Ogedei [n=user@g225073076.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:25:35 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6B5FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 23:25:48 adlirc [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 23:26:05 mjonsson [n=mjonsson@66-234-42-80.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:06 -!- adlirc is now known as addled 23:29:52 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.179.197] has quit ["Leaving..."] 23:30:06 durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 23:33:30 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 23:36:12 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:36:45 <_3b> which is the preferred xml lib these days? 23:36:59 cxml? 23:37:30 <_3b> ok, i'll try that 23:39:21 -!- durka42 [n=durka@d81.wireless.swarthmore.edu] has quit [] 23:41:06 cxml. 23:41:17 it rules. 23:41:36 -!- jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@74.125.59.1] has quit [] 23:41:43 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:24 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:46:01 tritchey__ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:31 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:47:59 -!- HET2 [i=diman@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:50:36 apo [n=apo@pD9E7F078.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:18 cxml ftw! 23:51:56 is that the one that nags you about not being able to load stuff you don't care about, and have to twiddle magic things to make it work? 23:53:18 nurv101 [n=nurv101@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:54:13 i care about dtd's myself, and i'm glad cxml doesn't include or require an http client by default.. so no and yes. 23:54:14 *_3b* just wants to parse (a subset of) svg 23:54:18 dtds damnit 23:54:32 omg here comes an s! 23:55:09 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.115.207.78] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:55:44 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.115.207.78] has joined #lisp 23:57:11 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@p3238-ipbf4104marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:58:17 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:59:04 _3b: that's what I was playing with it for. 23:59:40 uninverted [n=njs@ip98-184-78-157.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:40 then I realized I needed to parse CSS too, and that seemed horribly perverse