00:01:56 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483C011.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:02:11 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 00:16:22 roark [n=roark@student165-164.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 00:16:35 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:17:30 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6E5CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 00:22:14 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:53 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:23:20 MOP question: if you have a class that you don't want to instantiate, but want to associate information with it, what's the better solution --- slot on the class object or class-allocated slot + class-prototype? 00:23:45 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:23:50 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:31 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:27:53 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:28:19 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:29:40 -!- jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:30:54 -!- inforichland [n=inforich@96-42-29-58.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:34:56 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has quit [] 00:36:06 I use class prototypes with methods, but I'm biased in that I've only needed to do this for associating simple atomic data, and when I fell into the habit, it's because I didn't understand that shared slots can be shadowed and so got screwed by using class allocation and inheritance 00:41:35 snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has joined #lisp 00:52:12 hefner: I was talking about using slots on the metaobject and doing (accessor (find-class NAME)) at the ILC, and someone said I should use (accessor (class-prototype (find-class name))) where accessor was for a class-allocated slot. 00:52:23 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.138.41] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:52:31 -!- snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:52:32 But he didn't really make an argument for this, and I was unable to find him afterwards. 00:52:39 snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has joined #lisp 00:52:55 I note that Pascal Costanza's ContextL code uses the class-prototype method... 00:53:31 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 00:58:52 I guess there's not really good syntax for putting slots directly on the metaobject when you are defining a class... 00:59:31 yeah, sounds like a hassle 00:59:48 It just seemed to me that if you have a thing that is a property of the class, then it's ... odd to put this on the instances. 01:00:57 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:01:46 it's a little odd to think of a class-allocated slot as being in the instances 01:01:56 stebnem [n=fussy@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:03 (class allocated slots are a little odd, really) 01:02:10 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:51 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087B6F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:06:31 -!- stebnem is now known as tttsssttt 01:07:34 rpg: might be more efficient. 01:07:37 hefner: but although it's class-allocated, it's still a property (although a shared one) of the instances. 01:07:50 pkhuong: the class-prototype approach you mean? 01:08:06 yes. 01:08:43 Actually, it occurs to me that the inheritance semantics would be different, wouldn't they? 01:09:06 rpg: that too. 01:09:16 That seems like a sufficient reason. thanks. 01:09:17 Implementing class-allocated slots with instance slots that point to boxes seems fairly sane. 01:11:04 rpg_ [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 01:11:37 -!- rpg_ [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:12:29 rpg_ [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 01:13:34 oh, drat. Hiccup in connection. pkhuong sorry, did you say anything after that remark about implementing class-allocated slots? 01:14:22 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:14:25 -!- rpg_ is now known as rpg 01:14:34 nope. But if you consider that + the fact that you'd have to do something similar on the metaobjects to deal with inheritance... 01:14:56 pkhuong: Yes, I think that's a good argument. 01:15:26 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:16:51 Pascal has some code for the singleton class (which strikes me as a misnomer, since it's never instantiated, not instantiated once) in ContextL, which I will probably repurpose (if license ok). 01:18:54 zen_balrog [n=johnnyc@adsl-69-150-85-11.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:32 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:58 -!- cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:28:28 cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has joined #lisp 01:28:58 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:04 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 01:29:18 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:29:26 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:20 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ed9f1be3f99b6417] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:36:22 dkcl` [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 01:44:37 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:45:20 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:47:36 inforichland [n=inforich@96-42-29-58.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:52:34 wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 01:53:49 wentbackward_ [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 01:54:04 -!- wentbackward_ [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:54:58 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:58:42 -!- wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has quit [""client restart""] 01:59:07 wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 02:00:38 spooneybarger [n=spooneyb@cpe-74-73-111-254.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:21 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:01:40 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:49 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:03:40 -!- wentbackward is now known as wentbackward_ 02:03:55 -!- tttsssttt [n=fussy@topol.nat.praha12.net] has left #lisp 02:04:00 -!- wentbackward_ is now known as wentbackward 02:04:08 -!- inforichland [n=inforich@96-42-29-58.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:05:38 -!- spooneybarger [n=spooneyb@cpe-74-73-111-254.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:08:31 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 02:08:43 Greetings! 02:08:43 -!- dkcl` [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:09:40 rullie_ [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151257.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:09:55 Does anyone know where I can find an archive of Fischbacher, T. (2003) "Making Lisp fast." ? It was at http://www.cip.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~tf/lambda/aei/lisp.html , but that is 404. 02:10:05 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-127.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 02:11:43 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:39 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:01 ; nothing particularly interesting. 02:14:22 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:25 arnold I voted for him 02:14:36 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:16:16 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:16:18 pkhuong: Thanks. I ran across some papers by Didier Verna and was looking through the references. 02:16:45 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:17:16 xyblor [n=nik@75-119-238-41.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:17 -!- rullie_ [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151257.dsl.bell.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:23:10 I have a bunch of data represented as objects (instances of classes) that I want to save to a file. Is there an easy way to do it, or do I have to list the data in each slot, save that, and then reconstitute the objects from that when I want to load the data? 02:23:24 minion: cl-store 02:23:24 cl-store: cl-store is an asdf-installable portable library for serializing and deserializing Common Lisp objects to and from streams. http://www.cliki.net/cl-store 02:23:33 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:36 sounds good 02:23:46 is it easy to use? 02:24:03 minion: elephant 02:24:04 elephant: Elephant is a LLGPLed portable object database based on Sleepycat (Berkeley DB) or relational databases. http://www.cliki.net/elephant 02:24:06 no idea 02:24:15 wentbackward: elephant is much more complex. 02:24:29 wow I even have options :-) 02:24:30 minion: cl-serializer 02:24:31 cl-serializer: cl-serializer is a Library to write a graph of objects into a byte stream or vector. http://www.cliki.net/cl-serializer 02:24:40 that's probably more interesting than cl-store. 02:26:56 or you could just use make-load-form-saving-slots 02:26:56 sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 02:27:07 if you only have very simple structures 02:28:23 well there's objects within objects; that's the extent of the complexity I guess 02:28:50 cl-store is very easy to use 02:29:07 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [] 02:29:09 I like that 02:29:26 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:07 it will successfully store nested objects 02:30:43 maybe cl-store will be easier to figure out than make-load-form-saving-slots 02:31:05 -!- azathoth99 [n=gavin@208.179.135.122] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:31:53 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:54 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:32 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:33:16 mooglenorph pasted "cl-store" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77848 02:33:24 an (admittedly poor) example of use 02:33:28 Ah, I just checked some old code where I went through the same thing. Seems I moved away from using objects and put everything in parameterised lists, so saving was easy 02:34:27 all it needs is an instance and a pathname 02:35:01 mooglenorph: thanks, I'm trying it out 02:35:15 xyblor: good luck 02:41:31 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-206-91.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:43 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-253-30.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 02:42:19 aggieben_ [n=chatzill@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 02:43:44 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:34 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 02:46:41 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:52 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:10 anyone else attending the newLisp webinar tomorrow? 02:53:27 pstickne_ [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:37 they timed it just right, after the rush of ILC09 wore off and the excitement of ELS09 2 months from now 02:55:27 nuzzlenuzzle 02:55:34 ...wrong window 02:56:32 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 02:58:08 -!- aggieben [n=chatzill@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:58:13 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:58:17 alexbobp: heya 02:58:19 Can I have a recommendation on a revision control system to use for a small lisp project? 02:58:22 hi emma! 02:58:37 we're looking into git, bzr, and darcs, so far 02:58:51 Yes, i'm the other person looking. 02:59:01 git is great if you want to lose a couple days to figuring out how to use it 02:59:25 hefner: is it time well spent in the long run? 02:59:29 and if you fail to figure that out, you can entertain yourself for months complaining about it on the web, so it's win-win 02:59:33 I don't think we have any major deadlines. 02:59:45 emma: git or mercurial 02:59:47 alexbobp: i really like darcs 02:59:52 darcs comes second 03:00:00 scp -r 03:00:05 *p_l* didn't touch bzr 03:00:08 no love for bzr in #lisp i guess. 03:00:24 okay, is mercurial easy to learn compared to git? 03:00:27 alexbobp: My impression is that bzr is a more user friendly git 03:00:29 and if so, is there any reason to prefer git? 03:00:36 also, for the love of all that is, don't use SVN or CVS :P 03:00:45 yeah, centralized=ick 03:00:48 alexbobp: git is quickly becoming the most used VCS 03:00:56 alexbobp: I find mercurial easier, git however is faster 03:01:27 okay... but emma, he said a couple days to figure out how to use it! imagine how much lisp we could learn instead in a couple days! 03:01:43 is mercurial easier than bzr? 03:01:50 alexbobp: but git is a worthy learning activity also since you can use git your whole life afterword. 03:01:53 alexbobp: you can also learn a few expletives. So it's win-win 03:01:58 there are tools to convert history between dvcs systems, so i'd say pick one and go for it. fwiw, darcs is super easy. 03:02:27 similarly, sawing through your tibia is a worthwhile activity because you'll get to collect disability for the rest of your life 03:02:29 emma: yes, but learning an rcs before you need it is a waste of time 03:02:37 emma, if time is critical, is there not something you have setup already. Nothing special is required, we use plain old svn, because it's there already. 03:03:06 alexbobp: basic mercurial setup is very fast to setup 03:03:12 no i don't think we have any deadlines at all. alexbobp and I are just learning lisp together is all. 03:03:37 alexbobp: I'm not going to learn mecurial. 03:03:43 svn is easy 03:03:43 ah I see, then a good time to have fun an experiment! 03:03:45 if you're collaborating on a project, budget an extra day or two to figure out how to move the code around with git 03:03:52 emma: not mercurial? why? 03:04:04 surely not because it has a funny name... 03:04:23 because apparently every git tutorial assumes you're either a linux kernel hacker, or playing on a project with three files that never leaves your local disk 03:04:24 alexbobp: because it sounds like git is coke, bzr is pepsi, and mercurial is Royal Crown Cola. 03:04:39 If we are going to learn something let's learn the masterful ones. 03:04:40 alexbobp: for any kind of collaboration, budget few days for infrastructure training... oh how I wish I had forced it down the throats of my co-students ;-) 03:05:07 ..but somehow would benefit immensely from the ability to create branches which you will probably not be able to figure out how to merge 03:05:09 Why not grab a free google code or sourceforge account, then focus on lisp? 03:05:11 emma: you always have the weirdest rationales for deciding what to learn! it's about finding something to make your life easier, not finding something to brag about knowing! 03:05:23 emma: mercurial and git are IMHO quite evenly matched 03:05:39 You don't put the RCSes you know on a resume. You put programming languages you know on a resume. 03:06:02 oh, emma, want to use google code? 03:06:08 alexbobp: Unless you happen to be experienced with a certain development environment for VMS ;-) 03:06:12 well we could do that too. 03:06:16 I agree with wentbackward. Getting a google code project setup and then using svn is super quick 03:06:28 but i would like to learn git some day anyhow. Or bzr. 03:06:33 p_l, you're a CMS/MMS guy? 03:06:42 I don't like svn at all, but last time I used it I had to run the server myself. Having someone else do it for me just might make it worth it ;) 03:06:55 actually never mind, I never could even get an svn server to work, that was cvs 03:07:15 if google code is pretty easy and we can focus on the lisp then that's good. 03:07:18 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:19 cvs is trivial, just put some files somewhere, and access them over ssh 03:07:31 alexbobp: you can always get a common-lisp.net account and have someone else set up any vcs you want 03:07:44 it's a wonderful thing to realize your CVS repository isn't cloaked in magic 03:07:54 (compared to certain other systems..) 03:08:06 wentbackward: No, but it's lying installed waiting for time for me to learn it :D 03:08:16 drewc: oh, that sounds very convenient! 03:08:26 drewc: does common-lisp.net let us switch vcs? 03:08:36 p_l, aha ... I grew up on that stuff. Can't even remember the commands now! 03:08:57 wentbackward: there's this growing notion of CL on VMS... :P 03:09:14 or just use RCS 03:09:30 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 03:09:55 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:10:07 p_l, I loved VAX's. I was an ICL operator and spent night shifts learning VMS-y type things. Then first programming job, VAX Basic in 1989! 03:10:43 wentbackward: heh. The only physical VMS machine I have is an old Alpha which has MACRO-32 as the only compiler :D 03:11:46 VMS also certainly feels nicer than MVS 03:11:57 *p_l* tried MVS 3.8 turnkey.... 03:11:59 *fusss* saw a job ad for a VAX operator today 03:12:32 fusss, Sure it wasn't one of those grey/orange vacuum cleaners? 03:12:49 *p_l* needs to get that "blowing up" VMS ad 03:13:39 Now if only HP's marketing wasn't full of idiots... 03:14:12 http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cpg/1099819684.html 03:14:15 an advert showing a system surviving one of its datacenter getting blown to smithereens by military was great 03:14:32 s/an advert/the advert/ 03:15:19 We had quite a few that survived the bomb blast in St Mary's Axe. They were all squished back against the wall covered in glass. Some still worked! 03:16:10 well maintained servers tend to get offline only because someone decided to take the cables out of "that furniture in the corner" 03:16:49 aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has joined #lisp 03:16:57 fusss, that was me 20 yrs ago, I feel old! 03:17:55 *fusss* An amateur's epiphany : 1) think hard about a problem at hand. 2) find suitable mathematical model. 3) find a theory that fits that model. 4) take a few weeks learning the theory while juggling other stuff. 5) learn obscure software used by theory practitioners. 6) spend a few days translating to HLL. 7) discover you never needed it. 03:18:32 jao` [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:18:52 wentbackward: no, feel in demand! I can't wait til MS COM+ hits Y2K critical-maintenance stage. 03:19:57 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-125-22-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:17 well, 2 years ago they started recruiting DOS programmers like crazy in Saudi Arabia. something about an airport, so those TSR hacking and debug.com skills are soon to come back :-) 03:20:33 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-68-239-77-4.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:20:51 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:21:04 But yeah lisp on VAX. Perhaps a LispOS on the alpha would be good. 03:21:14 fusss, haha, worrying isn't it! 03:21:54 I used to hack lotus 123 'scripts' using debug 03:23:38 -!- jao [n=jao@obfw.oblong.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:23:48 -!- jao` is now known as jao 03:25:31 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:27:04 fusss: I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't actually DOS as most know it, but similar to how old AutoCAD and similar worked. i.e. DOS as something like "console" that serves the real OS 03:27:52 or it was stuff like various POS etc. :) 03:28:30 a real-time DOS? there were a bunch of those (IIRC, Ralph Brown's interrupt list had a bunch of them, so they must have been from various RT OSes with DOS-compatible API) 03:29:07 fusss: or disabling DOS after loading the app 03:29:18 and treating it like overgrown BIOS 03:29:48 Isn't that what DOS pretty much was? :) 03:30:03 -!- xyblor [n=nik@75-119-238-41.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:30:16 DOS is basically a few I/O routines. yeah, you can boot into protected mode and load your own OS into a giant address space and handle your own exceptions and protection validations, not to mention peripheral interfacing (if you're embedding DOS you probably control the HW specs as well) 03:30:38 it was BIOS with UNIX parts mixed in in a bad way... :P 03:30:39 s/validations/violations 03:31:02 fusss: all you need is a com file and fit into 64kB :) 03:31:03 p_l: they unix-seeming parts are interrupt 0x21 related 03:31:32 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 03:31:51 *p_l* didin't have a DOS-based OS in a long time... 03:32:01 even regular plain-jane-DOS could overcome program size limitations with overlays :-) 03:32:22 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:32:28 *p_l* doesn't have a microsoft OS older than NT6.1 installed 03:32:29 sbahra: keefak? :-) 03:33:14 p_l: I have a DOS 6 and Redhat (5.2?) dual-booting machine somewhere 03:33:30 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:34:21 fusss, hala, not bad. Yourself? 03:34:26 -!- CrEddy [n=Adelarth@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Success] 03:34:43 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 03:34:48 sbahra: just sucking at math again, nothing big 03:34:53 fusss, what math? 03:34:55 mooto [n=chatzill@202.114.113.2] has joined #lisp 03:35:17 *sbahra* is not sure how DOS is "UNIX-like" in any way 03:35:19 LPP stuff that I know + statistical inference crap that I don't 03:35:44 sbahra: DOS emulates a tiny little fraction of libc 03:36:09 + posix calls 03:36:23 Tiny little fraction? Such as? 03:36:26 It had a command line before a UI 03:36:43 fusss, standard is pretty trivial to implement in DOS. 03:37:00 fusss, not sure about POSIX calls though. (there is overlap) 03:37:05 fusss, could you give me an example? 03:37:38 fusss, sounds interesting. This is for the marketing thing? 03:37:48 sbahra: yeah 03:38:24 sbahra: 3 - 4 months from now we can have you on board. but you have to brush up on your arabic and lisp skillz ;-) 03:38:34 s/can/want to/ 03:39:14 I definitely need to brush up on my Arabic, at least. :-P 03:39:40 i'm gonna give a presentation on 4/17, the marketing/business part of it. Dupon Circle. 03:39:42 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-206-91.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:40:20 I always knew fusss was really an enemy combatant 03:40:43 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@217.194.205.196] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:40:46 *fusss* needs to investigate the side-effects/repercussions of going against mama google's wishes 03:41:16 hefner: heh, not with these pedicured hands (/me walks on all fours wrt the law) 03:41:30 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-206-162.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:49 brb cigarette 03:41:51 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:42:25 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:42:43 sbahra: DOS directory and file spec were based on unix getting mixed with CP/M (they added UNIX bits in DOS 2.0) 03:43:00 there were also options to switch pathname separator to unix-style / 03:43:31 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-98-194-108-33.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:42 also, unofficially DOS had a single root with device files.... ;P 03:43:53 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:49:55 Anyone here use Gmail? 03:50:10 gigamonkey: t 03:50:59 It's the only 'managed' email account I have. I think I've sent and recvd about 3 emails on it. 03:51:11 Do you get an error when you go to your gmail page (i.e. an in-Gmail error suggesting to use the previous version or the static HTML version) 03:51:54 gigamonkey: are you using firefox with NoScript? 03:52:00 *fusss* uses gmail via IMAP 03:52:07 Firefox but no NoScript as far as I know. 03:52:26 No. It did have a little link to a static version in the bottom right whilst it did some ajax stuff. 03:52:44 gigamonkey: nope, works fine 03:52:49 But after a loading bar whizzed across the screen, it all dissappeared 03:53:08 chessguy [n=chessguy@c-68-84-2-127.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:28 gigamonkey: check your connection speed; it happens to me when I'm in the balcony at 1.0Mbps 03:55:45 thelaptop|cc [n=munthyem@NICKEL.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:56:06 thelaptop [n=thelapto@ELYSE.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:56:26 chessguy_ [n=chessguy@c-68-84-2-127.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:40 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.198.192] has joined #lisp 03:58:42 Hmmm. According to speakeasy.net I'm getting 5063 kbps down and 644 kbps up. 03:58:52 xyblor [n=nik@69-196-141-175.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:00:40 How about the latency if you ping mail.google.com 04:01:02 or whatever the main address is 04:01:41 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-118-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:06 hdfhefgaert43t [n=bite@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has joined #lisp 04:02:21 ~26 ms. 04:03:12 hmm. My connection is slower and works fine. 04:04:10 -!- chessguy_ [n=chessguy@c-68-84-2-127.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:04:24 Have you tried the usual stuff, empty cache, restart browser etc? 04:05:13 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:05:13 Ah, beta software. 04:05:41 Or security settings, blocked webpages, cookies etc? 04:07:37 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:12:53 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@c-68-84-2-127.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 04:13:22 -!- jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:14:40 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 04:14:46 -!- woopdeedoo [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:15:45 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-151-39.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 04:16:38 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["brb"] 04:20:11 -!- p_l [i=plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-5dce7583c6453388] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:20:32 wentbackward: restart browser yes. I'll try more drastic measures. 04:21:04 jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:21:15 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0FF5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:28 Well, that--whatever it was--did the trick. Sorry for the noise. 04:23:30 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.198.192] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:27:55 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 04:32:37 Little gremlins, like the one that keeps hiding things I had just set down. 04:32:37 amazingdander [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:12 -!- dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 04:37:03 Is there an SBCL mailing list that I should be on besides -devel? 04:37:46 I prefer g.l.s.general personally 04:37:56 not with the hacking and all 04:38:14 I guess that is -help or something? 04:38:52 Ah. nice. 04:38:59 What is g.l.s.general ? 04:39:41 -!- jaykub [n=jaykub@ip68-97-197-157.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [] 04:40:11 ASau [n=user@host115-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 04:41:14 ASau` [n=user@host117-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 04:41:19 dkcl` [n=user@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 04:43:31 gmane-ese for sbcl-help or whatever it is 04:43:50 I prefer pulling the nntp feed to getting mail 04:43:58 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 04:44:07 Oh. fascinating. I had no idea this existed. 04:44:14 morning 04:44:24 What a nice resource. Thanks. 04:44:54 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:45:29 dkcl`` [n=user@214.67.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 04:47:48 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:48:13 -!- hdfhefgaert43t [n=bite@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:48:33 -!- dkcl`` is now known as dkcl 04:49:03 -!- dkcl` [n=user@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:49:17 how do you coerce an integer to a string? 04:50:07 (write-to-string number) 04:50:24 thank you 04:50:38 btw cl-store works great 04:50:50 good. glad you like it. 04:52:34 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.35.73] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:53:01 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'arnesi) 04:53:08 I wonder why they decided that (string 3) shouldn't work 04:53:10 (arnesi:~d number) 04:53:37 xyblor: should it produce "3" or "^@^@^@"? 04:53:49 well I wanted "3" 04:54:01 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-176-191.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 04:54:02 not the same as "what might people think it means" 04:54:08 kind of like (string 'a) 04:54:08 no dwim in functions 04:54:25 well you can't have a string of length 04:55:07 An implementation is free to make (string 3) return "3" 04:55:09 -!- ASau` [n=user@host117-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:55:11 well you just trade one confusion for another 04:55:20 ASau` [n=user@host117-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 04:55:28 you entirely eliminate the reading confusion, which is more important 04:56:08 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:56:21 coulnd't they just eliminate #'string and make everyone use #'write-to-string? 04:56:24 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0FF5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:56:45 (write-to-string 'a) also works 04:56:52 write-to-string does different things for symbols when readtable-case is set to something else 04:57:18 EQUALP is case-insensitive when comparing strings, right? 04:57:24 yes 04:57:29 Thank you. 04:57:49 er, I mean *print-case* 04:58:03 can't even remember my own .sbclrc settings 05:02:11 Good morning. 05:02:47 Good afternoon! 05:04:14 it also annoys me that (coerce 'a 'string) doesn't work 05:06:54 I don't know if there's any sense complaining about this kind of thing here (or anywhere) 05:07:05 Not really, no. 05:07:17 don't use coerce, then. it isn't intended as a magic grabbag of random conversions 05:07:28 sunwukong [n=salvi@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 05:07:31 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:07:31 clhs kind of suggests it is 05:07:43 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0FF5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:44 "Coerces the object to type result-type." 05:09:06 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:09:28 xyblor: How would you coerce (say) a person to (say) a building? 05:09:29 it then goes on to define exactly what that means 05:09:48 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 05:10:11 I never liked the term coerce anyway, and I'm much happier with the coerce function if I ignore everything but its ability to convert sequences to other sequences. 05:10:21 well it just seems reasonable that 'a could be converted to a string 05:10:33 which one? 05:10:48 "A" 05:11:17 just like (string 'a) does 05:11:27 JAS415 [n=jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:50 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 05:12:17 wouldn't you then expect something like (coerce (coerce some-symbol 'string) 'symbol) to be the same as some-symbol? 05:12:47 okay, point taken 05:13:20 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 05:16:11 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:18:19 -!- dkcl [n=user@214.67.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:20:03 -!- jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:23:25 -!- sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:26:46 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 05:28:38 jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:31:57 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:51 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 05:35:51 -!- ilitirit [n=john@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:35:52 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 05:39:01 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 05:40:27 kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:32 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:57 aside from available memory, is there an upper limit on the size of hash tables? 05:43:05 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:46:23 -!- aja [n=aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Client Quit] 05:47:40 huangjs` [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 05:48:48 sbt [n=sbt@rrcs-208-125-96-78.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:51:54 ilitirit [n=john@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 05:55:00 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:06 Ragnaroek [i=54a65806@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6ffe88561ed400b3] has joined #lisp 05:55:18 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-6f85e2d72a647c95] has joined #lisp 05:55:29 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-6f85e2d72a647c95] has left #lisp 05:55:43 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-158-6.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:45 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:00:36 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:00:51 beach: ask the fbi. they did it for j edgar hoover, did they not? 06:02:58 (coerce 'jfk 'airport) 06:03:47 that one has some curious unspecified behavior 06:04:23 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:05:07 -!- jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:06:02 jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:07:10 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:07:51 I'll be the butt of these jokes for months, I can tell 06:08:05 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has joined #lisp 06:10:18 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 06:10:58 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 06:14:08 -!- kidd2 [n=kidd@80.31.143.142] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:14:27 hefner: i found a good theory for automatic text classification :-) 06:14:32 kidd2 [n=kidd@80.31.143.9] has joined #lisp 06:15:16 yeah? 06:15:31 LSA (Latent Semantic Analysis: lsa.colorado.edu); used pretty much everywhere since 1994 at least. seem 06:16:09 very straightforward technique based on bayesian analysis 06:17:44 an specialization of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vectorial_semantics 06:19:03 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 06:19:30 "vectorial semantics" 06:19:51 never ceases to amaze me the ridiculous ways they come up with to disguise a dot product 06:20:16 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 06:20:32 *_3b* embeds a png in a .swf, yay :) 06:20:52 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:21:07 _3b: hey, is this with your compiler/tool? 06:21:13 <_3b> yeah 06:21:37 <_3b> now i just need to define a class for each png so i can use it from bytecode 06:21:45 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 06:22:33 -!- pstickne_ [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:22:50 darn. the party is over. 06:23:18 adityo [n=adityo@59.183.31.165] has joined #lisp 06:23:36 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:24:34 _3b: i have had a change of heart and came to despise flash :-P i was always half-hearted about it, just wanted it for the GUI, but found out even that sucks in flash 06:24:42 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 06:25:32 <_3b> heh 06:25:35 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:25:43 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:25:51 <_3b> i'm learning compilery stuff if nothing else, so not a complete waste even if i don't like it 06:26:22 yeah, compiler hacking > just being in it for the gui 06:27:16 <_3b> also most of the stuff i want to do with it isn't too dependent on GUI 06:27:31 i have that tendency to succumb to fads when i'm low on cash :-P I once bought a visual basic book for $60, that was in 2002, i returned it the next day and exchanged it for ANSI CL. I still have the receipt :-) 06:27:33 <_3b> and it can't be much worse than dhtml/ajax stuff 06:27:37 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:27:39 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:28:24 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 06:29:08 flash compiler hacking is fun because you can show it to others pronto 06:29:28 <_3b> well, once it compile stuff... last revision took way too long :( 06:30:24 <_3b> took a while to figure out enough of the scope/unwind semantics in CL, and the corresponding avm2 stuff 06:30:40 timchen119 [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 06:32:09 yours is a new language without a sufficient code-base to test the compiler against. pain awaits, my friend. 06:32:16 pjb: Sorry, I just realized that my reply to your posting was completely out of context. I thought yours was a reply to my posting. 06:32:54 <_3b> i'm using CL as a base, so i can use CL code for testing 06:33:38 <_3b> or at least run my test cases in a CL and see what it does there :) 06:33:52 -!- roark [n=roark@student165-164.hampshire.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:34:13 <_3b> not having any clue what will confuse the flash code verifier is more of a problem 06:34:22 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:34:33 no peep-hole optimizer yet, right? 06:34:40 *_3b* doesn't have much confidence in reliably compiling nested loops 06:34:50 <_3b> peephole was an early addition 06:35:00 <_3b> much easier than generating sane code :) 06:35:08 noice 06:35:12 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 06:35:14 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:35:26 <_3b> doesn't do that much though, just some of the obvious things like push followed by pop, etc 06:38:39 the good ole order of doing and undoing. there are some fairly easy global optimization stuff, but they assume access to the whole IR stream 06:38:46 is there any 'best pratice' on error handling? 06:39:35 <_3b> yeah, right now it generates pretty bad code, but at least the new version has a chance of adding stuff like type declarations :) 06:39:41 huangjs`: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Condition-Handling-2001.html 06:40:31 <_3b> oops, don't seem to have left any way to pass arguments to the constructor of a superclass... wonder if i can hack that in reasonably 06:41:02 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:41:25 _3b: what do you mean? CALL-PREVIOUS-METHOD doesn't exist yet :-P 06:41:35 backward chaining clos :-D 06:41:41 <_3b> copy-paste and a * at the end of th emacro name to the rescue 06:41:50 <_3b> heh, nowhere near clos yet 06:42:11 <_3b> don't even have real lambda lists yet 06:42:13 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 06:42:31 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:42:32 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:37 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:42:46 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-324.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 06:42:46 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 06:43:04 drafael [n=tapio@130.216.93.31] has joined #lisp 06:44:50 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:01 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 06:45:26 H4ns: I'm reading that. :) anything else? 06:46:52 huangjs`: error handling is the bedrock of Aspect Oriented Programming. What else is the bedrock of AoP? formatting log-messages, of course! 06:47:01 -!- mooto [n=chatzill@202.114.113.2] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"] 06:47:32 -!- adityo [n=adityo@59.183.31.165] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:47:52 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:48:12 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 06:48:15 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Client Quit] 06:48:20 huangjs`: It's illuminating to try to write the condition system macros in terms of CATCH/THROW, TAGBODY, special binding, and UNWIND-PROTECT. 06:48:21 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 06:48:29 I mean to implement them 06:52:12 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 06:58:11 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:58:41 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.161.55] has joined #lisp 06:58:57 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 06:59:29 -!- sbt [n=sbt@rrcs-208-125-96-78.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:02:01 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:02:51 good morning 07:03:55 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:04:47 bdowning_ [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:03 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 07:05:38 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:08:04 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-118-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:08:18 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:13:29 will [n=daman@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 07:13:32 <_3b> cool, i can use the embedded png from code now too 07:14:17 <_3b> now i need to figure out why it doesn't quit elook right 07:14:37 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4599.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:15:10 agz [n=mate@225-36.adsl.etel.hu] has joined #lisp 07:15:48 egosh262 [n=Miranda@212.106.61.218] has joined #lisp 07:16:26 how can I write a macro that could write a defmacro clause? 07:16:37 Are there any good writeups on Arc? It seems to me it could be implemented in CL fairly easily? Am I missing some magic somewhere? 07:17:04 frank_s [n=frank@41.145.126.246] has joined #lisp 07:17:23 agz: (defmacro foo () `(defmacro.... )... 07:18:12 -!- egosh [n=Miranda@212.106.61.218] has quit [] 07:19:06 wentbackward: IMHO, there is no magic in Arc, hence you're not missing anything. 07:21:52 Thanks vy, I was wondering why I couldn't get a sense of it's raison d'être. I'm sure PG is going somewhere with it, but not clear yet perhaps. 07:22:09 Clojure is the new Arc. 07:22:29 <_3b> nah, clojure has more reasons to exist :) 07:22:36 i think they have different purposes 07:23:09 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77859 07:23:20 -!- timchen119 [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:23:26 timchen119 [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 07:23:30 JAS415: can you help? :) 07:24:34 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-176-191.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 07:25:19 can you post the concatenate symbol function? 07:25:34 agz: Instead of ",,", use ",',". 07:26:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77859#1 07:26:35 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:36 if i were writing it i'd probably do it in two stages (from a readability standpoint) 07:27:06 -!- wentbackward is now known as Gresh 07:27:40 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.161.55] has joined #lisp 07:27:41 vy, JAS415: txh! 07:28:50 -!- Gresh is now known as wentbackward 07:31:33 -!- will is now known as creddy 07:34:35 i would do it more like this because i hate nested backquotes 07:34:39 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77860 07:37:26 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 07:45:04 -!- jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:50:51 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.161.55] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:53:11 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:54:28 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 07:54:43 jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has joined #lisp 07:54:43 -!- jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 07:55:28 jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:59:52 -!- dwave [n=ask@084202072173.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 08:01:24 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined 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closed the connection] 09:28:10 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 09:33:57 -!- HET2 [n=diman@v254-201.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:35:36 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 09:37:45 HET2 [n=diman@v254-187.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 09:39:17 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0FF5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:44 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0FF5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:43:29 beach / spiaggia: ping? 09:44:00 nunb [n=user@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:45:05 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@nttkyo036048.tkyo.nt.ngn.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:45:05 Hello, I'm trying to write a defmethod with an eql parameter, except I'd like to specialize on a string. Is there an alternative to eql ( like string= ) that works for strings? 09:45:07 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 09:46:10 Xof: I'm here. 09:46:12 nunb: no, not portably 09:46:56 spiaggia: in Laurence's latest mail, am I right in thinking that he meant "algorithmes" and was intending to correct the "mise en page" bit? 09:47:13 Xof: let me check... 09:47:14 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:47:15 lichtblau: thanks. I know theoretically eql makes sense, since it is evaluated at definition time, but I wondered. cheers. 09:47:16 nunb: unportably, for SBCL, it's more of a research topic than something that's actually supported, but you could define your own kind of specializer 09:47:26 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CEA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:35 nunb: but if I got my act together and tied up my stuff with lichtblau's stuff an pkhuong's stuff, you could do that, yes 09:47:42 I see. no, not looking for a research project right now ;-) 09:47:55 bah, research projects are fun. Particularly those with actual use cases 09:47:59 But isn't it somewhat contrary to the spirit of eql specializers and the ANSI standard? 09:48:01 Xof: definitely "algorithmes de mise en page" What was the original text? 09:48:15 free_thinker [n=willijar@eas-nw709pc01.aston.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:48:24 "algorithmes des mises en page" 09:49:24 OK, then what I wrote. 09:49:44 fine, thanks 09:49:55 What about the second thing? 09:50:20 auote: If parameter-specializer-name is a symbol it names a class; if it is a list, it is of the form (eql eql-specializer-form). The parameter specializer name (eql eql-specializer-form) indicates that the corresponding argument must be eql to the object that is the value of eql-specializer-form for the method to be applicable. The eql-specializer-form is evaluated at the time that the expansion of the defmethod macro is 09:50:20 evaluated. (sorry it's a bit long). 09:50:27 Xof: I guess you got the other two? 09:50:33 yes 09:50:40 Xof: Thanks! 09:51:04 Xof: They seem to have a reasonable copy editor, and a policy to read the papers. How unusual these days! 09:51:09 it is nice 09:51:21 actually I am having pleasant experiences with copy editors this year 09:51:36 Wow, you have had two in the same year? 09:51:44 I wrote a subject guide for the University of London, and it was copy-edited with extreme skill and professionalism 09:51:55 80 pages of extremely close attention to detail 09:52:10 she even checked every entry in the index 09:52:18 (and found a couple of errors) 09:52:24 That sounds truly Amazing. I should tell Kathleen about this! 09:54:17 Anyway, I should ask Laurence out to lunch next time I'm in Cachan. 09:58:48 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-118-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:38 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:00:14 nunb: Why not use a symbol instead of a string? 10:01:18 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:01:19 nunb: Or, in a similar vein, you could use interned strings with eql. 10:05:03 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0FF5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:07:37 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0FF5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:30 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 10:11:56 p_l [i=plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-1a8576310c786b2e] has joined #lisp 10:18:49 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 10:21:39 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-156.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:22:23 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.161.174.114] has joined #lisp 10:25:34 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:29:02 -!- Beket [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:29:04 seamus-android [n=user@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust124.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 10:29:24 -!- HET2 [n=diman@v254-187.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:29:30 -!- gmlk [n=gmlk@alicia.demon.nl] has quit [] 10:30:15 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a65806@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6ffe88561ed400b3] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 10:30:44 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 10:31:05 Ragnaroek [i=54a64658@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-df2eff8ebe7a5e29] has joined #lisp 10:31:23 'warn' can only signal a warning type, this is a good design, but why error can accept any conditions? This is really bad because I can't catch all the conditions that will invoke the debugger. 10:31:51 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 10:34:00 there are two separate things: signalling serious conditions and entering the debugger 10:34:22 the way to prevent the debugger from being invoked is not to claim to handle conditions that you can't actually claim, it's to write code that prevents the debugger from being invoked 10:34:24 arguably, you can't know that you need to catch the condition when the programmer writes (PROGN (SIGNAL FOO) (INVOKE-DEBUGGER FOO)) explicitly either, so why prohibit him from writing that as (ERROR FOO) in the first place 10:35:42 clhs *debugger-hook* 10:35:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_debugg.htm 10:35:51 segv [n=mb@p4FC1FE0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:59 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1FE0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:36:02 segv [n=mb@p4FC1FE0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:04 huangjs: depending on what you're trying to do, *debugger-hook* may be something you want to look at. 10:36:19 huangjs: most implementations allow you to disable the debugger completely, too. 10:36:51 yeah that's correct. 10:37:56 the problem is, I can't jump back to the place where the condition is handled unless I defined a restart and call the restart in *debugger-hook* 10:38:20 hmm... maybe it can be done. Somebody enlighten me 10:38:33 how do you know that you _can_ handle whatever condition gets signalled? 10:38:50 what if the condition represents "out of memory"? 10:39:04 -!- jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:39:42 Xof: There's no way I can know every condition in advance. but I still need to keep the program running. 10:40:08 "i know it can't work, but i need to do it anyway" 10:40:16 yeah. 10:40:41 huangjs: you'll have to invent something radically new then! 10:40:51 cool 10:40:58 huangjs: i'd exit the process in the debugger hook and leave it up to the operating system to clean up. 10:40:59 In allegro's ftp.client, if the user/pass is not authenticated, it will (error 'failed-connection), but failed-connection is not a subtype of error... 10:40:59 I look forward to your strategy for handling memory bit errors 10:41:20 is failed-connection a documented condition class? 10:41:43 if so, then it will document its inheritance and possible recovery strategies, which you will be free to use 10:41:45 huangjs: you can exit non-locally from *debugger-hook* just like you can exit non-locally from handler-bind. 10:41:58 Xof: yeah. it is, but I can't assume I've already handled everything. 10:42:13 speaking of which, is there a free common lisp ftp client? 10:42:21 no, you can't assume that, because you can't handle everything 10:42:23 Franz code often subclasses SERIOUS-CONDITION where other people would have used ERROR. 10:42:34 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 10:42:38 Good afternoon! 10:43:17 lichtblau: in that case, it subclassed condition! 10:44:05 lichtblau: yeah, but it means I need to: either define a restart case or wrap the handler-bind with a catch form. Does that make sense? 10:44:38 well, or use HANDLER-CASE to handle this specific condition at its call site, since you already know about it. That what I'd do in this case. 10:44:53 it doesn't make less sense than your overall requirement 10:45:41 huangjs: i'd say that your problem really is not common lisp, but the design of the condition hierarchy in franz' ftp client. 10:45:57 H4ns: I agree. 10:46:13 but I still need to handle it... it may come from somewhere else. 10:46:34 I don't think that's a problem either. I think the problem, if there is a problem, is in the documentation of the condition hierarchy in franz' ftp client 10:46:51 I can't say that there is a problem because I haven't actually read it 10:48:00 I think that huangjs' problem is one of unreasonable expectations ("no matter what, I want my program to keep running") 10:48:52 if you restrict the problem to "keep running whether or not any of the following conditions is signalled: {error, failed-connection, ...}" then the problem becomes solvable 10:49:05 I actually think the complaint is valid. I can't count the number of times I've cursed PARSE-NUMBER for signalling an error that's not a subclass of ERROR. 10:49:26 But the two valid approaches are (a) contact the author or (b) deal with it in your own code base with an extra handler. 10:49:37 It's not (c) ask third parties about it. 10:49:41 manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 10:49:44 I think that it is probably also true that franz' condition classes are lame 10:50:02 Xof: in this case, it's my fault not reading the maual *carefully* but what if some library errored a condition which is not intended, can you afford that little piece of error (in this case, mine) breaks down the whole system? 10:50:03 but that's not a fundamental part of the problem: no matter what, you have to enumerate the conditions you are prepared to handle 10:50:50 huangjs: a broken system deserves to break down. :) 10:50:51 huangjs: sure, just like I can afford it if my rss reader segfaults once in a while 10:51:12 breaking at that point is better than silently overwriting all my home directory because some data structure got corrupted 10:51:13 H4ns: but it's me who have to go to the datacenter to debug it :) 10:51:28 then don't use libraries you haven't audited 10:51:36 huangjs: if you want robust, consider the solution that i suggested many minutes ago 10:51:42 for that matter, don't use compilers you haven't audited, because who knows what might go wrong there 10:51:52 H4ns: what's your suggestion? 10:51:53 huangjs: the robust solution will use the operating system to clean up. 10:52:06 huangjs: exit process, restart application. 10:52:07 if a failure costs you that much, then the relative cost of reading the code and if necessary assuring every single line is smaller 10:52:36 H4ns: I agree. Actually I'm trying to do that in *debugger-hook* now. 10:53:32 pkhuong: bah, the sort -> stable-sort in meta-vmdef has not fixed the bignum discrepancy 10:57:00 Ok, thanks for the advices. It was painful anyway. :) 11:00:44 Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 11:05:20 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 11:06:42 hugod_ [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633728.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:07:04 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:11 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:08:03 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a64658@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-df2eff8ebe7a5e29] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:08:03 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:08:03 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@student167-115.hampshire.edu] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:08:03 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-81-133.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:08:03 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:08:03 -!- wormilwork 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formal systems are tough to deal with !"] 12:06:14 dv_ [n=dv@85.127.116.220] has joined #lisp 12:07:23 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:33 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85.127.116.220] has quit [Client Quit] 12:09:16 LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-120-dynamic.51-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:11:26 -!- frank_s [n=frank@41.145.126.246] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:12:50 frank_s_ [n=frank@41.145.126.246] has joined #lisp 12:14:33 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:15:05 -!- jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:16:06 jaykub [n=jaykub@ip68-97-197-157.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:59 -!- frank_s_ [n=frank@41.145.126.246] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:22:04 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:55 frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.126.246] has joined #lisp 12:34:38 manic12 [n=manic12@c-76-29-88-103.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:19 hello 12:36:16 (silence) 12:37:11 say something interesting 12:38:14 if anyone were interested in allowing McCLIM to break from the standard, I would be interested in making an opengl backend for it 12:40:51 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-197-229.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:40:51 -!- dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:41:31 i've said this before, but currently all sheets are mirrored in McCLIM (fuzzy memory), which maps onto windows (tm) windows just fine, but would require some work to get it working in opengl 12:41:59 dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:43 ivan4th [n=ivan4th@87.249.9.98] has joined #lisp 12:42:51 I don't believe that it is a necessary part of the standard that all sheets must have a direct mirror 12:42:56 so, go ahead and make your backend 12:43:00 no standard deviation necessary 12:43:06 ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 12:43:36 hello, is it possible to get the current filename upon read time? 12:43:50 McCLIM has a mirrored-mixin way down at the sheet level if I remember correctly 12:44:00 so? 12:44:19 if you rip it out you totally break mcclim 12:44:28 so don't rip it out 12:44:30 change it instead 12:44:42 to something that works, and doesn't break from the standard 12:44:43 duh 12:45:05 it already breaks from the standard by doing so 12:45:15 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087AE89.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:15 how so? 12:46:33 that mixin isn't supposed to be there 12:48:17 you said it yourself 12:49:46 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.161.174.114] has joined #lisp 12:50:01 no, I didn't 12:50:21 [07:42] Xof: I don't believe that it is a necessary part of the standard that all sheets must have a direct mirror 12:50:29 manic12 what would be the gain with mcclim running on top of opengl 12:50:33 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:50:38 yes, I said that. Perhaps you might want to read what I wrote rather than just pasting it? 12:51:06 xristos: obviously not much 12:51:08 "It need not be this way" is not the same thing as "It must not be this way" 12:53:33 xristos: I am interested in starting with mcclim and breaking from the standard to come up with something that really takes advantage of opengl 12:53:50 it would better to start from scratch i think 12:54:16 why, is McCLIM messy? 12:54:25 to really take advantage of opengl, you need something designed with opengl characteristics in mind (like constant redisplay, immediate mode gui etc) 12:54:36 and mcclim is the opposite of that 12:54:42 manic12: that's nice, but given your exhibited reading comprehension so far I don't think you know what "breaking from the standard" actually means 12:55:24 Xof, there is no need to be aggressive 12:55:30 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-129-196.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:55:56 you're the one claiming that I said things that I didn't in fact asy 12:56:03 "say", even 12:56:05 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:09 xristos, I use a redisplay protocol for my program and just call paint-screen when I need something more immediate than a Windows message 12:57:21 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@89.166.179.126] has joined #lisp 12:57:47 Xof: I apologize for misconstruing your statement 12:58:34 thanks 12:58:48 you're welcome 12:59:09 so, on your project, my advice is "try it and see". Make the changes that you need to to get things working, try to maintain workingness with the CLX backend too 12:59:57 Xof: I already have, and decided not to persue the McCLIM route 13:00:54 -!- HET2 [n=diman@v254-187.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:01:13 Xof: that was a quite a while ago 13:01:38 so are you or are you not interested in producing a mcclim backend? 13:02:13 No, I'm interested in evolving CLIM to be something new 13:02:25 and I said CLIM not McCLIM 13:02:57 *sigh* 13:03:13 for instance it would be cool if region functions could do boolean operations on arbitrary shapes 13:03:18 I'm not going to bother pasting what you actually said; my interest is exhausted 13:03:53 Xof, wouldn't one not start by making a backend? 13:04:17 that wouldn't be my final objective 13:04:43 it would also be cool if you could map sheets onto nurbs surfaces 13:05:34 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-118-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:06:02 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:11 I'll probably start with Mirai instead of McCLIM though, but then it would be commercial 13:06:19 hi rindolf 13:06:59 Hi manic12 13:08:42 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:23 manic12 you have mirai source ? 13:09:33 no 13:10:08 what did you mean 'start with mirai' 13:10:24 Izware is supposed to be sending me a Mirai with a compiler built on Franz x64 13:10:32 you remember incorrectly. SHEET is not a subclass of MIRRORED-SHEET-MIXIN in McCLIM. 13:10:32 Beket [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 13:10:44 hey guysm let's write a multiplayer mud! in lisp! 13:10:48 -!- dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:11:27 did the daylight change involve a 12 hour phase shift this time? 13:11:36 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-120.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:51 lichtblau, yeah, my memory gets fuzzy, but I know there is a mirrored mixin of some type that made making an opengl backend difficult 13:12:54 xristos: and they are supposed to provided me with the necessary documentation as I go 13:14:22 the idea is that they are interested in seeing a modern nurbs solid modeler used with their interface paradigm 13:15:27 <_3b> people still like nurbs? though it was all subdivision surfaces these days 13:15:49 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 13:15:51 I think smlib has that too 13:15:58 manic12 ok but how does this tie into a general gui api like clim 13:16:16 it seems to me like you're talking about extending mirai 13:16:39 someone has been trying to get me interested in semantic technology 13:16:55 So Gilbert thinks it's possible to make a backend without all these mirrors, and you think it's not possible. Guess who I'd bet my money on. 13:17:14 and I would need something with more general capabilites 13:17:53 manic12 i have something in the works 13:17:59 xristos: remember I looked at your repl for opengl 13:17:59 its immediate mode gui for opengl 13:18:20 yeah that repl was like a rough test 13:18:32 and made a stream-based window which works with the allegro toplevel 13:19:14 I'm interested in doing mouse sensitive text, etc 13:19:16 -!- drafael [n=tapio@130.216.93.31] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:19:58 the idea is to do something similar to your immediate mode, but in Mirai 13:20:35 sounds good 13:20:38 xristos: what have you been up to lately with that project? 13:21:18 *_3b* wants to do some 3d coding now :/ 13:21:25 i'm adding as i go 13:21:33 i had to start from scratch and abandon the repl 13:21:40 as it was more of a prototype quickly hacked together 13:21:48 I am working on mouse-sensitive widgets, I can do onmouseover, etc 13:22:08 basically what i want to have is imgui (constant redisplay at 60fps lets say) 13:22:14 me too, the one I sent you was totally crappy 13:22:25 so i can combine effects, visualizations, animations etc 13:22:31 hrm 13:22:57 that would probably work better in the longrun then telling the window to refresh 13:23:07 considering todays graphics cards 13:23:20 yes it shouldnt be an issue with a decent gfx card 13:23:35 it runs 60fps with 5% cpu load on my intel gma 950 13:23:42 might overheat my old laptop though! 13:25:03 the thing is its tied to osx for now 13:25:18 as i use coretext for fonts 13:25:20 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.161.174.114] has left #lisp 13:25:32 but i'd like to have it run on windows too 13:25:36 as mine is tied to windows 13:26:00 KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:26:26 I have the spaceball working too, which was pretty easy actually 13:28:17 dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:57 xristos, could you have seperate render context to the same window and have different threads running on different cores running different jobs? i.e. one for a video, one for 3d, one for 2d etc 13:29:14 I'm getting ahead of myself 13:29:22 hence the name 13:29:56 sure 13:30:03 <_3b> talking to the gfx card from multiple threads tends to be a bad idea from what i've heard 13:30:07 as long as opengl rendering happens on a single thead 13:30:10 -!- frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.126.246] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:30:44 i'm saying maybe not to do that, I have read it's possible 13:30:58 but _3b may be right 13:31:17 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-17-206-162.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:31:19 <_3b> loading and/or decoding on other threads can be good though 13:31:29 don't know about other systems, but your program locks up if you try to do this on osx 13:31:57 xristos: some platforms only allow the initial thread to do GL calls. 13:32:05 frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.126.246] has joined #lisp 13:32:07 stathis_ [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 13:32:07 yes thats the case with osx 13:32:22 <_3b> in X and win32, you can render from any thread, as long as you deal with contexts properly 13:32:33 it's with opengl on all machines to have one render context per thread 13:32:34 -!- Beket [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:33:47 kerc [n=riise@65.84-49-151.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:50 memory access is the problem really with doing multithreaded anything on intels 13:34:07 -!- seamus-android [n=user@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust124.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:34:15 in what world is that a problem *on intel*? 13:34:43 otherwise you could have one thread rendering a buffer, another thread rendering a buffer and swap 13:35:18 what do you mean pkhuong, is it not less of a problem with AMD 13:35:20 ? 13:35:28 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6F03C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:49 i don't own an AMD or an i7 13:37:00 using multi cores on my machine is limited by memory access 13:37:16 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-118-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:16 The memory ordering rules on x86s are pretty much the strongest around. If you're talking about performance due to the FSB: I don't see what that has to do with the topic, I'm not convinced 2 or 4 cores will saturate a large FSB more than multiple on-die controllers, and the issue is fixed in i7/nehalem. 13:38:17 anyway, CL needs an awesome interface manager 13:38:17 <_3b> for rendering separate frames on multiple CPUs it shouldn't matter too much, aside from memory bandwidth in general 13:39:14 <_3b> and for rendering on GL, it is serializing it for the GPU that makes it a bad idea to run multiple at once 13:39:40 pkhuong: i don't know 13:40:09 _3b: yeah 13:41:47 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:11 pkhuong, the FSB is on the die on the i7, right? How about with AMDs? 13:45:15 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-128-198.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:41 there's no FSB on Opterons; i7 is similar. 13:47:07 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-193-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:10 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:49:53 fiveop_ [n=fiveop@pD9E6FBC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:58 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 13:51:06 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 13:52:03 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 13:52:40 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-197-229.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 13:52:45 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:53:05 -!- fiveop_ [n=fiveop@pD9E6FBC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:53:13 fiveop_ [n=fiveop@pD9E6FBC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:26 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6F03C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:55:08 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:12 moesenle [n=moesenle@atradig124.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 13:55:34 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:44 What's the simplest way to have the REPL display decimals as results instead of fractions? 13:56:00 wentbackward: (float *) 13:56:06 convert to floats or work with floats. 13:56:38 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:57:12 -!- kerc [n=riise@65.84-49-151.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:57:27 -!- thelaptop [n=thelapto@ELYSE.RES.CMU.EDU] has left #lisp 13:57:40 Ah, I was using (/ 4966. 60.) which didn't work, however (/ 4966.0 60.0) works. Thanks 13:58:03 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1E10E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:59 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1FE0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:01:28 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-98-194-108-33.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:02:55 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@89.166.179.126] has quit [Client Quit] 14:04:29 kerc [n=riise@84.49.151.65] has joined #lisp 14:05:33 *sigh* 14:05:40 quamaretto [n=millij@70.228.181.124] has joined #lisp 14:05:56 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has left #lisp 14:07:21 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:09:39 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:13:07 free_tinker [n=user@host86-153-179-59.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:41 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-118-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:17:01 froydnj [n=froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:14 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 14:22:40 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:25:19 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 14:26:26 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a64658@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d438b3d37ad1d366] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 14:27:55 mdk [i=55cc21f2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5d8da63d516c8ac4] has joined #lisp 14:28:17 tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:47 -!- mdk [i=55cc21f2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5d8da63d516c8ac4] has quit [Client Quit] 14:29:12 Ragnaroek [i=54a64658@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-beb17fe34c668902] has joined #lisp 14:32:02 willb [n=wibenton@wireless92.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:34:38 -!- kerc [n=riise@84.49.151.65] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:42:13 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 14:45:29 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:45:40 wentbackward: a single _decimal_ point (without fractional part) means the number is written in base ten. 14:45:49 wentbackward: but it keeps the number an integer. 14:46:31 (setf *read-base* 16. *print-base* 10.) (list 10 10. 10.0) 14:46:49 <_3b> hmm, #x20. is 20? 14:47:15 No. It works only for normal numbers, without reader macro. 14:47:30 <_3b> so is that an sbcl bug then? 14:47:33 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 14:47:41 clisp says: token "10." after #x is not a rational number in base 16 14:49:16 However, ecl and gcl like sbcl return 20. for #x20. I'm puzzled. (I'll have to read clhs this evening...) 14:50:18 <_3b> looks possibly undefined 14:50:26 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit ["...."] 14:50:31 <_3b> "The consequences are undefined if the token immediately following the #X does not have the syntax of a hexadecimal (i.e., radix 16) rational." 14:51:35 nuclear missiles will be launched against Norway 14:52:22 willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless92.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:53:11 Maybe I'll just use C-Enter and calc things there! 14:53:26 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 14:54:25 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:38 -!- cYmen [n=cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:55:41 cYmen [n=cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 14:59:04 _3b: that's a rather harsh undefinition, I'd say... No protection against input mistyping? I'll have to rewrite #x et al. in my ~/.common.lisp rc file... 14:59:15 -!- free_tinker [n=user@host86-153-179-59.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:00:17 pstickne_ [n=pstickne@24.21.76.57] has joined #lisp 15:01:36 <_3b> #x#.a => 10 in sbcl also 15:01:41 <_3b> undefined is such fun :)\ 15:02:00 -!- stathis_ [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:03:17 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-142-250.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 15:03:32 newlisper [n=wschroed@128.252.233.244] has joined #lisp 15:03:46 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CEA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:03:59 <_3b> guess it sort of makes sense to be undefined though, so #x could either bind *read-base* and read a token, or just parse the next characters directly 15:06:50 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 15:06:57 -!- ASau` [n=user@host117-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Off!"] 15:07:11 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:44 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:07:50 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-11-55.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:25 -!- kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:09:34 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 15:09:51 kmcorbett1 [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:54 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:10:22 -!- nooper [i=nooper@2001:41c8:0:866:21c:c0ff:fe7f:7198] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:10:56 nooper [i=nooper@2001:41c8:0:866:21c:c0ff:fe7f:7198] has joined #lisp 15:11:08 c|mell [n=cmell@y192004.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 15:11:11 -!- ASau [n=user@host115-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off!"] 15:11:13 -!- dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:12:16 pkhuong: dunno how long your scrollback is. The sort->stable-sort in meta-vmdef did not alter the compilation of bignum.lisp :-/ 15:12:38 dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:10 Read that. I'll try and see if I can see another potential reason. 15:13:23 -!- nooper [i=nooper@2001:41c8:0:866:21c:c0ff:fe7f:7198] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:13:26 nooper [i=nooper@2001:41c8:0:866:21c:c0ff:fe7f:7198] has joined #lisp 15:15:01 dwave_ [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 15:15:56 -!- wentbackward is now known as wentbackward|tub 15:16:15 -!- wentbackward|tub is now known as wentbackward|zzz 15:16:22 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 15:16:27 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-200.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:16:33 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:16:44 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:17:10 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:18:39 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 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[n=funny@212.116.219.91] has joined #lisp 15:40:28 funny2683 [n=funny@119.146.73.114] has joined #lisp 15:40:30 funny6376 [n=funny@118.98.212.58] has joined #lisp 15:40:31 funny6332 [n=funny@118.98.214.58] has joined #lisp 15:40:32 funny9790 [n=funny@189-041-194-166.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:40:32 funny5560 [n=funny@189-041-194-166.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:40:36 funny1475 [n=funny@118.98.214.58] has joined #lisp 15:40:41 SportChick [i=essy@freenode/staff/sportchick] has joined #lisp 15:40:42 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:48 hi 15:40:48 hi 15:40:48 hi 15:40:48 hi 15:40:48 hi 15:40:48 hi 15:40:48 hi 15:40:48 hi 15:40:48 hi 15:40:48 hi 15:40:48 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:49 hi 15:40:50 hi 15:40:51 hi 15:40:53 how are you 15:40:53 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:54 how are you 15:40:55 how are you 15:40:57 how are you 15:40:57 how are you 15:40:57 how are you 15:40:57 how are you 15:40:57 how are you 15:40:57 how are you 15:40:57 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:40:58 how are you 15:41:01 LoRez [i=lorez@freenode/staff/lorez] has joined #lisp 15:41:02 how are you 15:41:04 how are you 15:41:04 how are you 15:41:04 how are you 15:41:04 how are you 15:41:07 hi 15:41:08 how are you 15:41:08 how are you 15:41:08 how are you 15:41:08 how are you 15:41:08 how are you 15:41:08 how are you 15:41:08 how are you 15:41:08 how are you 15:41:08 how are you 15:41:08 how are you 15:41:08 how are you 15:41:08 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 how are you 15:41:09 -!- LoRez [i=lorez@freenode/staff/lorez] has been kicked from #lisp 15:41:10 how are you 15:41:10 how are you 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:19 LoRez we love ya 15:41:20 LoRez we love ya 15:41:20 -!- dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:41:20 LoRez we love ya 15:41:20 LoRez we love ya 15:41:21 LoRez we love ya 15:41:21 -!- frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.126.246] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:41:21 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:22 LoRez we love ya 15:41:23 LoRez we love ya 15:41:23 LoRez we love ya 15:41:23 LoRez we love ya 15:41:24 LoRez we love ya 15:41:26 LoRez we love ya 15:41:27 Dave2 [i=Dave2@freenode/staff/dave2] has joined #lisp 15:41:31 -!- funny1598 [n=funny@189-19-75-98.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [K-lined] 15:41:31 -!- funny7948 [n=funny@189-47-140-103.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [K-lined] 15:41:31 -!- funny3007 [n=funny@189-47-140-103.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [K-lined] 15:41:31 -!- funny1205 [n=funny@212.116.219.91] has quit [K-lined] 15:41:32 -!- funny1475 [n=funny@118.98.214.58] has quit [K-lined] 15:41:32 -!- funny5560 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-!- funny7530 [n=funny@212.116.219.91] has quit [K-lined] 15:41:35 -!- funny8257 [n=funny@118.98.212.242] has quit [K-lined] 15:41:35 -!- funny2683 [n=funny@119.146.73.114] has quit [K-lined] 15:41:35 -!- funny8208 [n=funny@118.98.212.242] has quit [K-lined] 15:41:36 -!- funny1878 [n=funny@187.9.120.99] has quit [K-lined] 15:41:36 -!- funny8366 [n=funny@187.9.120.99] has quit [K-lined] 15:41:37 -!- funny9964 [n=funny@66.199.247.42] has quit ["Killed by N* Crew"] 15:41:40 -!- funny6376 [n=funny@118.98.212.58] has quit [K-lined] 15:41:46 love you too. 15:41:48 thank you. 15:41:56 thanks 15:43:19 *JuanDaugherty* finds it a bit odd that people can have both the ability to do that and the immaturity to want to 15:43:59 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:44:11 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.132.213] has joined #lisp 15:44:16 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.132.213] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:45:30 JuanDaugherty: ability to do that usually involves clicking "download" 15:46:45 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host58.190-138-158.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:47:27 Shaggy`OFF [n=funny@203.109.119.226] has joined #lisp 15:47:30 -!- Shaggy`OFF [n=funny@203.109.119.226] has quit [K-lined] 15:50:56 cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:51:47 -!- pstickne_ [n=pstickne@24.21.76.57] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:53:38 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 15:54:40 Qsource: Acknowledged. Though even the ability to do that is to my (admittedly superannuated) mind in conflict. 15:55:17 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 15:55:20 -!- S3v3N [i=SEv3N@89-212-233-86.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has left #lisp 15:55:32 welcome to the future - it's easier to acquire great destructive potential than the moral consciousness not to use it 15:57:19 -!- FZ [n=user@unaffiliated/fz] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:57:35 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host92.190-137-189.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:57:59 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-120.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:58:07 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-120.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:00 dlowe1 [n=dlowe@24.91.154.83] has joined #lisp 16:00:33 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:02:41 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 16:07:20 -!- jaykub [n=jaykub@ip68-97-197-157.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [] 16:07:29 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Success] 16:07:33 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:31 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:09:45 -!- willb1 is now known as willb 16:09:48 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless92.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:09:55 willb [n=wibenton@wireless92.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:13:39 borism [n=boris@195.50.199.161] has joined #lisp 16:14:00 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:15:51 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-125-22-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:16:34 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-221.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:17:06 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-120.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:19:18 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-120.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:00 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89.138.164.31] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:26:14 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 16:26:43 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdslet126.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:27:51 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:27:59 thoolihan [n=thooliha@32.146.123.111] has joined #lisp 16:28:21 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:28:39 -!- thoolihan [n=thooliha@32.146.123.111] has quit [Client Quit] 16:29:12 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-179-45-120.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:30:40 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@y192004.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:32:00 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-1d198009be835d24] has joined #lisp 16:32:40 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 16:33:22 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-164-31.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 16:41:29 pkhuong: if it would help I can put up my work in progress tree 16:41:37 -!- dlowe1 [n=dlowe@24.91.154.83] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:41:59 dlowe1 [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:58 antifuchs: it's been like that since middle 20th century... (un)fortunately we are too consumed by greed to exploit full power available to us :) 16:44:39 capitalism - slowing down progress for greater good! (of your pockets) 16:49:02 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 16:49:02 16:49:02 -!- names: ccl-logbot dlowe1 oudeis mrsolo amnesiac CallToPower Odin- postamar borism willb deat athos JuanDaugherty cracki_ Tordek_ xinming_ Dave2 LoRez SportChick dwave pchrist frank_s_ ikki ThomasI Ragnaroek yango sohail Nshag nooper kmcorbett1 doxtor newlisper gemelen cYmen Davidbrcz tsuru araujo reaver__ froydnj quamaretto segv_ kib2 moesenle Fare fiveop_ envi^home matley Athas chris2 Khisanth davazp KalifG LiamH rindolf sellout ruediger The-Kenny 16:49:02 -!- names: ignotus ivan4th manic12 existentialmonk LostMonarch Jasko tritchey ignas mtd tttsssttt wlr zbigniew albino guaqua kooll rsynnott eirik repnop matimago wormilwork bobf myrkraverk` jfactor mgr hugod_ Krystof manuel_ MrSpec huangjs p_l H4ns free_thinker proq blast_hardcheese mejja madnificent daniel hkBst hyperboreean ilitirit_ tombom timchen119 Soulman Aankhen`` egosh262 mega1 creddy bdowning_ kuhzoo mvilleneuve vy kidd2 ntoll eno JAS415 sphex 16:49:02 -!- names: sunwukong amazingdander S11001001 xyblor thelaptop|cc ia emma kpreid sysfault sbahra jeremiah wentbackward|zzz cavelife^ zen_balrog rpg ``Erik Patzy _death Phoodus Buganini BrianRice benny spacebat_ stassats` isismelting dmiles_afk Qsource rread_ Borbus nullwork prip brandelune bfein abeaumont djkthx jmbr wchogg ryepup1 dlowe bittin- jjong robewald saikat dto trebor_dki kenjin_ REPLeffect lemoinem pkhuong phadthai cods Quadrescence Thas joshe 16:49:02 -!- names: kreuter pjb msingh hjvs stepnem mikezor_ maxote dreish mathrick nullman` Taggnostr peddie bob_f herbieB spiaggia housel Ginei_Morioka chii rlpowell jho cmm anekos ffx` fgtech rotty slyrus deepfire yahooooo Kirklander dan_b plutonas rdd srcerer lnostdal authentic poolio lichtblau elias` billstclair kejsaren Riastradh djinni` konr cmatei rumbleca_ xan l_a_m flazz Adrinael joga jsnell z0d galdor keithr e271 cipher AntiSpamMeta a-s specbot minion 16:49:02 -!- names: lisppaste beach maskd Tristam foom sjbach alexbobp joast frodef froog Guest51325 jrockway qebab Draggor scode tarbo ampleyfly mornfall _3b Zhivago cddr vcgomes luis kefka Soulman__ koning_robot pitui @drewc dfox ineiros kg4qxk michaelw krappie johs Aisling bkudria xristos _CitizenKane_ tltstc tic hefner felipe boyscared @antifuchs ianmcorvidae olejorgenb DrForr nicktastic sanguinev mooglenorph Cel Dazhbog_ _dima p8m clog aking rodge kmkaplan 16:49:02 -!- names: kuwabara frontiers vsync jlf sykopomp Martinp23 guenther__ TDT fnordus wgl meingbg pragma_ pok Bucciarati Fade easch azuk Xof rlonstein thijso dcrawford 16:53:46 -!- dwave [n=ask@062016247216.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 16:53:51 worst system except for all the others, like usual 16:54:27 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:54:52 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:57:52 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdslet126.osnanet.de] has quit ["May the Source be with you!"] 16:58:04 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdslet126.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:48 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087AE89.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:59:01 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 16:59:26 rsynnott: maybe systems aren't the answer ;) 16:59:40 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has joined #lisp 17:00:47 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdslet126.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:00:59 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdslet126.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:01:18 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has left #lisp 17:01:19 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has joined #lisp 17:01:24 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdslet126.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:01:42 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdslet126.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:01:58 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdslet126.osnanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:02:09 pstickne_ [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 17:02:20 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdslet126.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:03:45 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:04:43 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:08:09 Xof: I don't really have time for that right now. 17:09:31 seamus-android [n=user@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust124.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:34 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-164-31.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:15:05 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdslet126.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:15:17 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdslet126.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:15:28 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 17:16:24 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdslet126.osnanet.de] has left #lisp 17:17:46 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 17:19:53 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:21:01 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:23:47 jfrancis_ 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19:02:22 -!- jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:03:01 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:03:19 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 19:03:31 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 19:07:43 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:07:51 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:08:00 http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/ 19:12:15 -!- pstickne_ [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:13:23 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-116-220.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:13:31 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:14:11 dtangren [n=dtangren@c-76-125-177-14.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:58 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-193-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:16:01 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-193-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:15 pkhuong: ok, no problem. Back to thinking very hard :-) 19:19:22 milanj [n=milan@93.86.216.137] has joined #lisp 19:19:58 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:00 thanks for the thoughts so far anyway 19:21:18 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-145-79.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:23:43 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@c-76-125-177-14.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 19:25:00 |kib2| [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:29 wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-145-79.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:21 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-24-109.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:28:56 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 19:29:26 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-61-214.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 19:29:44 roark [n=roark@student165-162.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 19:31:25 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:32:16 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:33:54 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:35:35 jyujin [n=jyujin@d221-88-81.commercial.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:42 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:48 -!- beach``` is now known as beach 19:42:13 Krystof: Again, thank you for this very nice collaboration on the paper. We should do this more often! 19:47:19 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 19:49:10 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 19:49:19 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-116-220.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 19:49:19 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 19:51:20 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:27 beach: well, we'd better find some more research to do together then :-) 19:52:30 Krystof: I think that would be a very good thing. 19:54:21 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 19:55:21 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:55:54 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:58 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 20:00:00 tombom [i=tombom@82.26.192.76] has joined #lisp 20:04:35 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 20:06:50 benny` [n=benny@i577A090C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:20:54 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A188E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:21:57 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:24:26 is recursive locking not possible via a function call in sbcl? .. i know with-recursive-lock exists 20:24:27 -!- roark [n=roark@student165-162.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:24:32 xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:24:54 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:29:18 i'm thinking calling sb-thread:get-mutex twice on the same mutex in the same thread not throwing an error 20:29:26 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-103-226.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:32:20 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [] 20:35:33 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:35:46 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCBAD7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:02 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:39:10 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:40:08 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.180.215] has joined #lisp 20:41:03 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:41:21 hello. I am currently trying to write an extension to ltk. i want to use format-wish for this, but I cannot find how to include widgets from lisp-variables into it, i.e. how to find out which representation they have in the wish-shell. 20:42:13 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:42:40 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[away] 20:42:44 -!- spec[away] is now known as spec[afk] 20:43:14 schoppenhauer: Why would you work on an extension to LTK, as opposed to wlrkigon CLIM. 20:43:23 paddymullen [n=patrickm@c-68-44-45-244.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:27 exit; 20:43:27 -!- paddymullen [n=patrickm@c-68-44-45-244.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:43:34 beach: what? 20:44:52 schoppenhauer: Nothing important, just that McCLIM told ve to using operating cooridates. 20:45:11 beach: ve? 20:45:16 schoppenhauer: I'm afraid very few people (if any) use LTK here 20:45:31 well, i couldnt find anything better so far. 20:45:36 it is very darlk. you're likely to be advocacied by a CS professor (-: 20:45:40 eql has been working nicely for me 20:46:06 Only drawback is having to modify it here and there, but it's an easy task. 20:46:26 well, and ltk so far works for me... just want to use the Img-Package to draw PNG-Images on Buttons. 20:46:30 schoppenhauer: http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ltk-user is LTK's mailing list - should definitely find somebody on it with a clue about the inner workings of ltk (: 20:46:32 which is possible in Tcl directly. 20:46:37 ok. 20:46:39 Why do people speek Dutch(?)! 20:47:00 Perhaps because it's easier than to speak English? 20:47:13 what. 20:48:52 pjb, I mean, in here. It makes no sense, what beach and antifuchs say. 20:49:33 awwww. just because I typo'd "dark"? 20:49:42 it was a Zork reference! 20:50:03 tic: at this time of the day, bordeaux wine must have some residual effect... 20:50:49 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:50:56 antifuchs, and advocacied! I have not heard of this word before. 20:51:22 antifuchs, so it might very well be a case of "me fail English? unpossible!" rather than you speeking Dutch. 20:51:31 makes sense 20:51:49 but I really made it up 20:51:54 a-ha! 20:52:03 it should probably have been be-advocacied, anyway. 20:52:44 Oh! It is very dark, you are likely to be eaten by a grue? 20:53:28 yes! 20:53:28 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:53:49 advocated? :p 20:54:38 pshh 20:54:40 please, what's the point of using (in-package #:foo) instead of (in-package :foo)? 20:55:00 stepnem: one interns "FOO" in the keyword package, the other doesn't 20:55:01 stepnem: to keep FOO from being stuck in your KEYWORD package 20:55:29 the differeince is very minor, but some people care about not putting too much crap into the keyword package. 20:55:37 yes, I know this, but why -- what is the reasoning? 20:55:38 "difference" (wtf is wrong with my typing today) 20:56:15 I've never heard anyone say that their program was a failure because there were too many meaningless symbols in their keyword package 20:56:21 indeed 20:56:43 I guess it sometimes confuses slime fuzzy symbol completion: the fuller the package, the likelier a false positive on TAB becomes 20:57:00 but that's a miniscule adjustment of that likelyhood on a very minor complaint 20:57:55 In Lisp, if I want to make the equivalent of a class level variable (like a static variable in C#), would I need to use MOP to do this? 20:58:21 saikat: just man up and declare a top-level special variable 20:58:22 :allocation :class ? 20:58:41 it's not as useful in lisp 20:58:53 slot accesses need an instance 20:59:09 if you do have an instance, though, it gets somewhat more useful 20:59:25 but yeah, top-level special variables are the way to go for that. 20:59:51 for bonus data encapsulation points, make functions that return the value (-: 21:00:09 ah ok, thanks 21:03:20 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:04:11 antifuchs: So what's up with you these days? 21:04:45 I'm hacking some clojure and building fun 3d plastic objects! 21:04:48 bobf_ [n=bob@host81-153-227-47.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:50 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 21:04:57 none as sophisticated as what your 3d printer makes, I suppose (: 21:05:01 but still - it's great fun 21:05:16 Sounds good! 21:05:43 it is ((: 21:05:47 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:06:05 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-111-154.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:06:05 I'm learning more about trigonometry and 3d geometry than I think I could have forgotten since school (: 21:06:25 so it's a net win - yay 21:06:41 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-1-245.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:06:53 -!- beach` is now known as beach 21:07:12 I've been wanting to get a 3d printer so I can make a single gear to repair my $30 paper shredder 21:07:31 somehow my wife won't see reason on this issue 21:07:39 ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@88-108-126-11.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:41 :-) 21:07:42 I told sellout before - the guys in new york are selling a minimal reprap for $750 21:07:42 saikat, :allocation :class and (closer-mop:class-prototype (find-class 'your-class)) works for me 21:07:53 antifuchs: it seems LSM/RMLL is going to be in Bx again in 2010 or so. How about some collaboration on getting a CL track going? 21:08:01 dostoyevsky [i=sck@195.49.138.42] has joined #lisp 21:08:02 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:22 it's a somewhat OK deal (it's a bit on the expensive side, but it is a kit), so that's way more affordable than the dozen kilobucks you'd pay for a "real" one (: 21:08:34 oooooooh 21:08:35 LSM! 21:08:38 awesome! 21:09:18 are there any lisp video sites ? 21:09:45 Yeah, and in the past, we had to sort of hide it in a "very high-level languages" track, but now I think we could honestly suggest a CL track. 21:09:58 I think so too 21:10:08 minion: Lisp Videos? 21:10:09 Lisp Videos: A topic to collect the various videos of people doing things with lisp. http://www.cliki.net/Lisp%20Videos 21:11:38 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:50 Anyway, it's way past my bedtime, so I'll continue this discussion in the morning. 21:12:02 Good night everyone! 21:12:11 good good. I'm looking forward to coming back to bx in 2010 (: 21:12:42 antifuchs: you are always welcome here. But this would be a great excuse indeed! 21:12:56 it would (: 21:13:07 (tax-deducible excuse, even! yay!) (: 21:13:17 heh! 21:13:18 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:50 for real this time: good night! 21:14:05 night (: 21:15:18 -!- bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:19:17 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 21:23:31 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 21:23:40 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:24:25 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:46 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:25:26 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:27:20 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:11 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4599.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:28:36 -!- fiveop_ [n=fiveop@pD9E6FBC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 21:29:50 sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:37:26 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:40:10 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 21:40:59 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 21:44:26 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:46:47 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0C68D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:48 -!- sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:48:16 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.61.198] has joined #lisp 21:52:28 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-61-214.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 21:52:59 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 21:55:06 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:56:39 frank_s [n=FrankS@41.145.126.246] has joined #lisp 21:57:34 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit [Client Quit] 21:59:10 josemanuel [n=josemanu@106.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:59:51 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:03 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0FF5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:02:31 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:02:39 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:02:53 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:16 -!- KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:08:18 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:08:44 -!- xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:08:50 -!- ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@88-108-126-11.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:12:03 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:12:07 -!- frank_s_ [n=FrankS@41.145.126.246] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:13:20 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:13:56 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.216.137] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:15:04 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:20:11 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-3767.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:24:23 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCBAD7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 22:25:00 -!- bobf_ is now known as bobf 22:26:04 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.180.215] has quit ["Leaving..."] 22:29:20 cpfr [n=cf@cpe-76-171-165-212.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:00 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@106.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 22:30:25 hello, I just upgraded to the latest hunchentoot (1.0.0) and tried to launch a server, but I got a "Connection Interrupted" error from firefox 22:30:32 any idea what I might be doing wrong 22:33:54 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-142-250.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:34:34 -!- LoRez [i=lorez@freenode/staff/lorez] has left #lisp 22:40:09 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."] 22:40:43 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-221.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 22:44:44 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:50 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CEA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:52:24 -!- |kib2| [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 22:53:32 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 22:53:37 -!- spec[afk] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["g' night!"] 22:54:48 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-68-239-77-4.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:27 -!- newlisper [n=wschroed@128.252.233.244] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:57:22 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:58:15 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.190.219] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:58:33 cpfr, maybe some dependencies need updating 22:59:13 any ideas 23:01:13 i'd check chunga 23:01:33 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 23:03:15 cpfr: CCL? 23:03:28 on windows? 23:03:35 linux 23:03:46 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless92.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:09:53 Beket [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:09:56 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 23:16:13 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:17:39 clhs defmethod 23:17:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defmet.htm 23:20:06 -!- xyblor [n=nik@69-196-141-175.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 23:20:52 hi. i cannot install cl-opengl using clbuild: the registered svn server (erleuchtet.org) closes the connection. is this just me? 23:21:16 jlf, i upgraded chunga looks alright now 23:26:01 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:28:24 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.61.198] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:29:41 dkcl [n=user@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 23:38:13 -!- jfrancis__ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has quit [] 23:40:15 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-193-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:44:29 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.28] has joined #lisp 23:45:49 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087AE89.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:45:58 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:45:58 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:47:11 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 23:48:34 -!- cpfr [n=cf@cpe-76-171-165-212.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 23:49:20 dkcl` [n=user@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 23:50:28 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has quit [] 23:51:35 bmaddala [n=bhaskar@c-71-224-160-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:12 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:53:21 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-126-130.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 23:57:26 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit []