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snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has joined #lisp 01:31:33 -!- snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has left #lisp 01:33:13 ltriant [n=luket@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:37:42 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:37:47 mib_cmqfb9 [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-052c9e952b42ba5d] has joined #lisp 01:38:23 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:14 -!- mib_cmqfb9 is now known as abdullah_ak2002 01:41:07 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 01:42:05 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 01:52:17 Hi all 01:55:07 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-078-030.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:55:28 hello 01:55:33 myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-81-133.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 01:55:42 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.180.215] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:58:25 ace4016 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known as Thas 02:48:22 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 02:49:03 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:56:20 Beket [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 02:59:02 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:00:31 -!- Beket [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:00:52 ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:26 Beket [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 03:05:32 -!- gz [n=gz@216.143.72.2] has quit [] 03:07:28 -!- yipstar [n=user@cpe-74-64-96-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:07:31 abdullah_ak2002 [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3e584655928a0329] has joined #lisp 03:08:00 hello everyone 03:08:09 I need to install clx 03:08:17 Can anyone help me? 03:09:08 sure. darcs get http://common-lisp.net/~crhodes/clx then install like any ASDF system 03:11:26 ayrnieu__ [n=julianfo@c-98-194-108-33.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:13 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.5.230] has joined #lisp 03:15:01 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-98-194-108-33.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:15:22 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:16:48 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 03:17:15 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-125-22-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:24 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-68-239-77-4.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:17:27 drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:33 Tordek [n=tordek@host92.190-137-189.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:22:58 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:23:22 -!- inforichland [n=inforich@96-42-29-58.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:24:38 Does anyone have a .el file for some pretty parenthesis highlighting? 03:24:38 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@117.192.5.230] has left #lisp 03:24:52 -!- ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:24:58 (Actually, one moment) 03:25:01 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has left #lisp 03:25:39 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:26:04 <_3b> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/HighlightParentheses ? 03:27:13 _3b: Have you ever used DrScheme, by any chance? 03:27:24 <_3b> not much, and not recently 03:27:31 hefner: thanks 03:29:02 Actually I am trying to install the closure web browser 03:29:02 _3b: hrm, well, in drscheme, it is possible to highlight the sexp you're in with a deep saturation, and then progressively fade out 03:29:03 http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~unk6/closure/ 03:29:30 -!- abdullah_ak2002 [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3e584655928a0329] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 03:29:40 abdullah_ak2002 [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-84db6f59b63a0d7e] has joined #lisp 03:30:40 <_3b> Quadrescence: different from the link i pasted? 03:30:41 abdullah_ak2002: It needs work. 03:31:00 -!- Tordek_ [n=tordek@host246.190-138-168.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:31:28 like? 03:31:42 I have installed emacs, slime, sbcl, cmucl 03:31:50 abdullah_ak2002: Last time I looked (last week) the figures were positioned in the wrong place. 03:31:51 what else? 03:32:00 abdullah_ak2002: You also need McCLIM 03:32:09 hmmm 03:32:29 perhaps clbuild is something for you. 03:32:35 minion: tell abdullah_ak2002 about clbuild 03:32:35 <_3b> Quadrescence: oh you mean the entire sexp? 03:32:35 abdullah_ak2002: have a look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 03:33:03 _3b: Yes. I will take a screenshot of what I mean. 03:33:43 <_3b> Quadrescence: http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/ ? 03:33:51 -!- drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:33:53 cool 03:33:53 <_3b> those hide the parens though 03:34:20 Maybe I can change it to not hide them. 03:34:58 That's more of what I'm looking for. 03:39:06 _3b: http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/880/drscm.png 03:39:40 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:40:28 <_3b> Quadrescence: looks annoying :) 03:40:48 _3b: Really? Hm, it makes me see the nesting a bit easier. 03:41:10 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:41:32 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:42 <_3b> i'd expect a lot of people to be annoyed by my setup, so that isn't intended as an objective assessment 03:42:16 <_3b> (though i suppose if it annoys somebody, it qualifies, even if it doesn't annoy everyone, or even most people) 03:42:26 Can I see? 03:42:49 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCFF38.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 03:43:08 <_3b> see what, my setup? it isn't particularly interesting, just dark background and small fonts 03:43:18 Yes, your setup. :) 03:43:33 <_3b> and lots of windows 03:43:42 Very interested. 03:45:56 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.29] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:47:34 <_3b> Quadrescence: http://3bb.cc/tmp/emacs.png 03:48:09 <_3b> 3 windows like that next to eachother, 2 slightly shorter ones half hidden on either side (since i couldn't fit 4 side by side) 03:48:22 _3b: Not too bad. :) I like small fonts. 03:48:55 <_3b> usually a few terminals, piles of firefox windows (with lots of tabs each), and some other junk piled on top of eachother 03:49:28 <_3b> that is proggy tiny sz i think 03:50:03 It looks like it. The only reason I don't like small fonts is because most of the time, the bold/italic characters aren't the same width as the regular ones. 03:50:05 <_3b> i use one of the 'fixed' fonts in X 03:50:20 <_3b> yeah, i just avoid bold/italics :) 03:50:41 Fixed is what I use. 03:50:44 -!- Beket [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:52:02 <_3b> the red on black color scheme is something i picked up a long time ago while working on an old CRT with poor convergence 03:52:42 I was going to comment how horrible it was, but when you put it that way, I like the idea.. 03:52:42 eek 03:53:21 <_3b> (also due to preferring to work in the dark, though the trend to overly bright LCDs kind of kills that idea) 03:53:22 hefner: Are you going to screenshot your environment now? ;) 03:53:43 <_3b> hefner: the red on black you mean? 03:53:52 _3b: yeah. 03:54:33 <_3b> yeah, like i said, i wouldn't expect other people to like it :) 03:54:58 cods_ [n=cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:11 <_3b> of the primary colors, red seems easiest to read though 03:55:54 <_3b> that could be just my eyes though 03:56:09 -!- jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:57:14 Quadrescence: http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/fancy-emacs.png is approximately what my environment looks like (I've since tweaked the colors slightly, and imagine some very-light-green on black xterms with the Atari ST high res font strewn about) 03:59:08 hefner: Pretty good, pretty good. 04:00:00 I think I dropped the garish lime screen face and made the background and the parens a bit darker 04:00:00 lime green. 04:00:17 -!- cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Connection refused] 04:01:52 -!- verdammelt [n=user@c-76-118-181-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:03:06 white/black/monaco 12pt/gray parens (: 04:06:43 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:07:01 -!- jaykub [n=jaykub@ip68-97-197-157.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["Bye!"] 04:08:41 jaykub_ [n=jaykub@ip68-97-197-157.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:29 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:11:51 -!- jaykub_ is now known as jaykub 04:12:47 Hm, why does (length (with-output-to-string (str) (dotimes (n 10000) (format str "~A" n))))) 04:13:02 Take 2.5 seconds, yet replacing n with 30000 take 25 seconds 04:13:15 The length gotten is roughly 4x the size 04:14:05 <_3b> poor w-o-t-s implementation? 04:14:35 <_3b> 1000000 takes 0.64 sec on sbcl for me 04:14:44 Hm, i'm on sbcl. 04:14:51 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-145-79.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:15:32 What version are you on? 04:16:11 <_3b> "1.0.25.57" win32 04:16:24 herbieB: (time (length (with-output-to-string (str) (dotimes (n 100000) (format str "~A" n))))) => 0.131 seconds of real time here, osx 04:16:37 I know you guys were dying to see what my little emacs window in xterm looks like, so I took the liberty of taking a picture for you.: http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2919/screenshot1rnn.png 04:16:47 -!- jaykub [n=jaykub@ip68-97-197-157.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [] 04:16:51 Ew, linux fail. 04:16:57 Or rather, gentoo fail. 04:17:15 herbieB: 0.031 seconds on linux (ubuntu) for me. 04:17:28 same here, approximately 04:17:31 jaykub [n=jaykub@ip68-97-197-157.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:32 (repeating jlf`'s command) 04:18:40 Well, hopefully a version update will help. Thansk all :) 04:18:43 herbieB: try scaling up another 10x 04:18:55 or 2x in length, say. 04:19:02 Running jlf`'s command hasn't finished yet :P 04:19:10 good lord. 04:19:28 What are you running this on? 04:19:34 <_3b> w-o-t-s is O(N) on sbcl, isn't it? 04:19:36 and with how much ram. 04:19:49 2.6 core duo with 2g ram :) 04:19:58 Hm, could be unicode related? 04:20:44 TIME gives you a lot more info than just the wallclock time taken. Look at user and GC time, for example. 04:20:44 Well, I'll try upgrading (1.0.19 => 1.0.26) first 04:21:29 Well, when it fisnihes, I'll let you know :P 04:22:01 ken` [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 04:22:36 Yeah, running with 10k is all user time, no gc time 04:24:02 <_3b> 1.0.21 on linux x86-32 seems slow 04:24:50 <_3b> (admittedly a slow machine, but didn't think that much slower) 04:26:02 *hefner* is using 1.0.22.19 on x86-64 04:26:41 <_3b> looks distinctly non-O(N) on 1.0.21 04:26:50 Yep, upgrade did it 04:27:00 10k went from 2.5 seocnds to .004 seconds 04:28:40 improvements to SBCL defy Moore's Law 04:29:09 Ah, but format with a handy ~{~A~} of that size still takes a bit 04:29:16 Fun times, go w-o-t-s implementation improvement./ 04:29:28 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:29:32 Thansk for the assist :) 04:29:48 <_3b> i'm guessing that is fixing a regression more than improvement 04:31:34 <_3b> ah, or maybe *print-pretty* improvements 04:32:33 <_3b> yeah, (let ((*print-pretty* nil)) ... 04:32:39 <_3b> fixes it on 1.0.21 04:33:44 *_3b* wonders what format was doing that was slow on long lines (or whatever) 04:34:34 getting the length of the line, perhaps. 04:38:05 Ah, setting print-pretty to nil speeds up format a lot too. 04:38:33 <_3b> yeah, that is generally a good idea if you have lots of output and don't need pretty printing 04:39:01 Learn something new every day :) 04:39:33 In unrelated news, is the TREES package stable/good? 04:39:33 the pretty printer usually doesn't 04:39:54 unless you're fond of spurious linebreaks 04:40:43 aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has joined #lisp 04:42:33 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:46:11 http://vintage-digital.com/wtf/unsolicited-yo-dawg-picture.jpg 04:49:46 i trust TREES' author. 04:51:40 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:12 drafael [n=tapio@130.216.93.87] has joined #lisp 05:00:38 stjarnljuset [n=stjarnlj@pool-71-106-177-84.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:17 -!- shizzy0 [n=shane@c-76-105-6-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:12:21 -!- drafael [n=tapio@130.216.93.87] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:18:40 I've seen the future, and it's tarballs with 20 KB of code in them, and a 500+ KB of git crud 05:20:06 That's a relief -- I was wondering what to do with all of this cheap media. 05:21:22 anyway, this bk-tree package on cliki looks cool 05:27:51 dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-64-125-73.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:28:50 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-64-125-73.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:33:48 <_3b> hefner: don't forget the random fasls and cores :) 05:36:57 hidden among the git objects, ideally 05:37:09 <_3b> probably 05:37:46 *_3b* would probably pick the tarball with a git repo in it over one without most of the time though 05:38:21 <_3b> at least for a dev install 05:38:52 -!- stjarnljuset [n=stjarnlj@pool-71-106-177-84.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:41:24 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:41:50 -!- aja [n=aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 05:42:33 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 05:42:38 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:56 oh, springerlink, why do you tease me? 05:45:44 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:59 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 05:49:34 -!- jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:49:56 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable085.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:50:19 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable085.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:50:24 jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:36 -!- ayrnieu__ [n=julianfo@c-98-194-108-33.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:58:37 13 05:58:57 morning 05:59:05 26 06:01:06 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:01:18 hey, I have to write notes about my current efforts somewhere 06:02:40 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 06:02:45 Good morning. 06:02:58 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:04:34 morning 06:04:40 you're at work intimidatingly early 06:05:49 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 06:07:35 Krystof: I foolishly accepted this course on Tuesdays at 8 at the engineering school. 06:07:50 Krystof: On the other hand, it's all Lisp, so I think it was a good thing I accepted. 06:08:04 Krystof: It allows me to control a bit how Lisp is taught here. 06:08:19 Bordeaux domination ! 06:08:35 fe[nl]ix: heh! 06:08:51 8!? do you have any _students_ there? 06:09:37 Krystof: This is the engineering school, so presence is mandatory. I have probably 90% of them in the room right now, and the others are trickling in. 06:09:51 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:10:20 slave labor! 06:11:35 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:11:48 the students are in control of the room now 06:12:02 what are their demands? 06:12:17 no more silly languages with parenthesis 06:12:18 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 06:12:26 <_3b> changing the class meeting time would be my guess 06:12:32 yeah, that too 06:12:33 hehe 06:13:35 hefner: less slave labor now after my latest pay raise in January :) 06:13:53 -!- ltriant [n=luket@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:16:45 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D9AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:18:31 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:20:40 lukego [n=lukegorr@222-152-14-7.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:23:58 // 06:24:00 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-14.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 06:24:56 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable085.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:28:41 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable085.189-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:29:29 abdullah [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c06837d44e59168b] has joined #lisp 06:29:30 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has joined #lisp 06:30:57 hello 06:32:06 -!- V-ille2 [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe43fb00-66.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 06:32:18 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:34:46 Ragnaroek [i=8f5df9eb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7ea634fe9128b0ad] has joined #lisp 06:35:57 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:37:14 whoami 06:38:59 snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has joined #lisp 06:38:59 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 06:39:52 -!- snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has left #lisp 06:41:06 -!- abdullah [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c06837d44e59168b] has left #lisp 06:41:28 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ae31b3e26265a5b4] has joined #lisp 06:42:01 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ae31b3e26265a5b4] has left #lisp 06:43:13 benny` [n=benny@i577A06E2.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:44:03 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A06E2.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:44:25 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-11565.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 06:44:53 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 06:45:13 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 06:45:33 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:45:54 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:46:17 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit [Client Quit] 06:47:50 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:32 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 06:50:59 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:51:30 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:51:49 reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 06:52:09 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 06:52:44 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:58:57 abdullah [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-639290efd5e548e9] has joined #lisp 06:59:05 hello all 06:59:17 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 06:59:19 good morning 06:59:26 I am trying to install mcclim 06:59:39 but some error is happening 06:59:51 I just installed cbuild successfully 07:00:00 on ubuntu 8.04 07:00:18 tried 07:00:19 ./clbuild update mcclim 07:01:34 some error is quite vague 07:01:48 did you do ./clbuild install mcclim? 07:01:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77804 07:02:29 guaqua: No 07:02:36 ejs [n=eugen@21-228-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:42 seems like problems with common-lisp.net 07:02:58 some parto of it is down? 07:03:35 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-11565.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:03:48 guaqua: oh no !!! 07:04:11 guaqua: I am trying "./clbuild install mcclim" right now 07:04:30 guaqua: will it go through? 07:04:47 I am having trouble for the past hour or so 07:04:49 no idea, i've never installed it. this is probably a bad time here 07:05:00 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4599.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:05:09 the americans are still asleep 07:05:27 I tried installing climacs, slime, and others all ended in a strange error 07:05:56 cvs [checkout aborted]: connect to common-lisp.net(208.72.159.207):2401 failed: Connection timed out <-- this is not a strange error 07:06:03 i think common-lisp.net cvs is up 07:06:16 maybe there is something wrong with your connexion? 07:06:19 or down? 07:07:05 ilitirit: I am in college using the wi-fi here. Could that be any proble, 07:07:11 problem 07:07:33 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:08:10 ilitirit: Besides irc, chat and p2p do not work just like that. We generally go via http proxy 07:08:28 Say I am using irc via mibbit.com 07:08:32 abdullah, so you probably can't use CVS either 07:08:42 you have to download the packages over HTTP 07:08:44 or use tor 07:09:41 uh, I'm not banned anymore 07:09:43 great 07:09:45 -!- cods_ is now known as cods 07:09:54 ilitirit: great I'll try 07:10:53 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@222-152-14-7.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:11:48 chpln [n=chpln@ppp121-45-157-74.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:11 ilitirit: How do i use tor to install using clbuild? 07:13:21 -!- ejs [n=eugen@21-228-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:17:03 use something like http://tsocks.sf.net to redirect all network usage through tor 07:17:43 i reckon it's a lot easier just to asdf-install things by hand 07:17:51 bit of a pain with versions though 07:18:24 ilitirit: hmm you mean i have to download the packages via http and then install them using asdf? 07:18:50 ilitirit: Something like http://mcclim.cliki.net/GettingStarted perhaps? 07:19:27 asdf just loads and compiles, it doesn't install 07:22:10 your problem is that you cannot use cvs as your internet is broken, and as that page tells you to download mcclim over cvs 07:22:14 even not using clbuild 07:22:51 the conclusion is that fixing the internet should be goal 0 07:23:24 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:23:51 ilitirit: yeah ok ... Must configure tsocks then? 07:24:24 and tor as well, etc. 07:24:54 ilitirit: got it ... 07:25:58 ilitirit: However, the web page also says "The assumption here is that the user has cvs and darcs clients available - if not, obtaining them is fairly straightforward. If cvs and darcs versions are not possible, tarball distributions can also be used. " 07:26:28 ilitirit: However as you said getting the net to work will highly simplify things 07:31:19 what is your objective? 07:31:43 why not apt-get install cl-mcclim 07:33:02 ilitirit: Somehow nobody recommended it this way before 07:33:47 you will get a really old version 07:34:35 kenjin_ [n=kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 07:35:14 ilitirit: How old? 07:35:15 drewc: here-p 07:35:44 lukego_ [n=lukegorr@222-152-92-9.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:35:54 ilitirit: By the way let me tell you about what I have been trying to do since morning. 07:36:27 ilitirit: a) Get some lisp software up and running. (sbcl,cmucl, scheme and others) all installed 07:36:39 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:36:58 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:37:13 ilitirit: b) Get some really cool softwares like climacs, closure, mclim etc installer (actually any cool software written in lisp) 07:37:48 ilitirit: c) Get under the hood to hack up some really cool stuff so that I can spend the summer in hacking for lisp 07:38:46 ilitirit: Actually I want to get to the cutting edge of a few technologies in lisp as well as start using more lisp software in general. 07:39:22 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 07:39:40 ilitirit: I also successfully installed slime and wrote a few programs in lisp .... 07:40:12 ilitirit: I have read and practised Peter Siebel's book last year. This year I want to do something better 07:43:34 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:43:35 Gresh [n=paul@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 07:44:09 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Client Quit] 07:44:37 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 07:46:57 -!- benny` [n=benny@i577A06E2.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:47:01 abdullah, good luck to you 07:47:46 ilitirit: Thank You. 07:48:02 my cl-irregsexp library needs help http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irregsexp/ 07:48:13 you don't need cvs to download it either 07:48:15 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 07:48:33 ilitirit: cool 07:48:35 then again it's probably not a good place to start for you ;) 07:48:50 ilitirit: So you program for common-lisp.net ? 07:49:02 -!- Gresh [n=paul@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:49:13 common lisp.net is a very generous service hosting lisp projects 07:49:20 i work for msi.co.jp 07:49:58 ilitirit: Japan? Cool 07:50:18 ilitirit: I study in www.cmi.ac.in 07:50:27 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.163.245] has joined #lisp 07:50:29 Gresh [n=gresham@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:45 -!- Gresh is now known as wentbackward 07:53:38 tell them to fix their Internet connexion ;) 07:54:44 ilitirit: yeah right ! Actually I don't think it is that much of a problem 07:55:05 ilitirit: Only if you want to do some dev work. then ... 07:55:18 benny [n=benny@i577A06E2.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:55:30 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:58:05 [1]> (log 2d0 10) 07:58:05 0.3010299956639812d0 07:58:14 * (log 2d0 10d0) 07:58:14 0.30102999566398114d0 07:58:19 ho ho ho 07:58:20 lukego [n=lukegorr@222-152-14-66.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:03:12 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:03:52 <_3b> and a 3rd answer for (log 2 10d0)? 08:04:11 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:04:13 Krystof: did you mail them the modified paper? 08:05:56 -!- jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:08:03 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 08:08:08 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:08:22 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:08:36 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:28 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D9AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:40 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:14:01 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:15:11 -!- abdullah is now known as abdullah_12345 08:15:24 -!- abdullah_12345 is now known as abdullah 08:18:24 -!- lukego_ [n=lukegorr@222-152-92-9.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:18:42 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:21:00 in-code-we-trust [n=Miranda@213.129.54.27] has joined #lisp 08:21:08 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 08:25:29 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 08:30:36 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6E5CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:49 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:36:01 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 08:44:59 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-a3d53fd2cd3f08cc] has joined #lisp 08:45:14 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-a3d53fd2cd3f08cc] has left #lisp 08:48:35 -!- Guest63722 [n=yong@61.181.247.170] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:50:29 heyman [n=bite@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has joined #lisp 08:53:09 eporim [n=rallon@unaffiliated/eporim] has joined #lisp 08:53:24 hi all 08:53:42 i donno if this is the correct chan, but i ask anyway 08:54:10 is there a way to change default syntax hilight in paste.lisp.org with ?something or similar? 08:54:19 or i would have to re-paste it 08:54:39 change css? 08:55:16 or you want to modify more than just colours? 08:55:31 only colors 08:56:51 http://paste.lisp.org/lisppaste.css 08:57:07 many browsers let you load custom css 08:57:58 there is nothing to css 08:58:15 marks must be changed :\ 08:59:45 you wanted to add support for some other language? 09:00:40 no 09:00:43 <_3b> stassats: i think the goal is to change the 'colorize as' option from a get param instead of a post param 09:00:44 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 09:00:46 to use one of the listed one 09:00:59 _3b: doesn't work 09:01:15 _3b: ?colorize=whatever is just ignored 09:01:46 but more langs support wouldn't be a bad idea too ;P 09:03:49 ah, i completely misunderstood, sorry 09:04:07 -!- reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:05:49 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-177.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:05:51 -!- amazingdander [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:07:55 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:10:31 schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c9023c54a500c0b6] has joined #lisp 09:14:42 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:12 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:21:10 tnx all anyway, bye 09:21:12 -!- eporim [n=rallon@unaffiliated/eporim] has left #lisp 09:21:23 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 09:22:04 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 09:22:08 hello 09:22:49 -!- abdullah_ak2002 is now known as amkdhar 09:22:54 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-177.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:24:21 Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 09:28:16 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 09:28:37 hello kami- 09:29:05 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:29:31 -!- abdullah [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-639290efd5e548e9] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 09:29:55 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C011.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:58 What is the correct idiom for accumlating strings into a buffer ? Is with-output-to-string efficient enough, or should I manipulate the fill-pointer myself ? 09:30:25 kuwabara: use a string output stream 09:31:08 kuwabara: or use the flexichain library. 09:31:33 spiaggia: hardly a common idiom. you may want to describe when that would make sense. 09:32:04 Granted, it is not a common idiom. 09:32:25 accumulating strings or accumulating the contents of strings? 09:32:42 oh, I assumed it was the contents. 09:32:43 Krystof: concatenating contents 09:32:56 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 09:33:14 H4ns: You are probably right. There is no particular advantage to using flexichain if you only add to the end. 09:33:28 Is there a built-in function like this? (defun fn (f) (if (pathname-type f) (concatenate 'string (pathname-name f) "." (pathname-type f)) (pathname-name f))) 09:33:37 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 09:33:49 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:33:50 thanks to you all 09:33:53 file-namestring? 09:34:02 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [Client Quit] 09:34:03 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 09:34:05 Krystof: sorry for nagging: did you mail in the modified paper? 09:34:11 -!- wentbackward [n=gresham@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 09:34:25 Krystof: thanks a lot! 09:34:27 tomoyuki28jp: didn't I tell you about directory-namestring just last week? wouldn't it have helped if you'd actually read the relevant clhs page? 09:34:44 spiaggia: not yet, no. I'm going to try to do it today. (The editor did say I have till the end of the week) 09:35:00 wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 09:35:01 I will make corrections and then send you a pdf to check 09:35:13 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@222-152-14-66.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [] 09:35:14 ah, OK. I just saw the date in my message. OK, that will be fine. 09:36:27 what is the third slot in the x86 stack frame for? OFCP, RA, ??? 09:36:39 Krystof: yes, you did, and I am using directory-namestring in my code. I was reading manual about pathname-xxx this time too. thanks and sorry to ask many times. 09:36:47 I can't find who uses it. 09:37:31 If I ever write a book on lisp, I promise it won't say "lisp stands for LISt Processor". 09:37:49 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-177.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:41:10 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-212-45.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:41:10 http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6139/lithp.png 09:42:58 :) 09:43:10 ;) 09:43:21 :) 09:45:26 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-177.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:46:03 dto [n=user@68-187-212-45.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 09:47:20 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-177.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:47:35 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:48:29 CMU Common Lisp M2.8 (29-Mar-89) 09:48:39 -!- aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has quit ["KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/"] 09:51:51 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 09:52:51 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 09:57:18 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:58:03 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:59:16 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C011.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 10:08:05 -!- in-code-we-trust [n=Miranda@213.129.54.27] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:11:48 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 10:12:07 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsler229.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:22:47 using "~{~A~#[~:;,~]~}" as a FORMAT string, I can "join" strings using a "," as delimiter. I can't seem to find a way to use an arg as delimiter. My only solution now is to build the format string with another format. 10:23:00 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 10:23:43 -!- amkdhar is now known as abdullah 10:27:40 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit ["leaving"] 10:28:00 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-33-30-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:45 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:34:56 HET2 [n=diman@v254-120.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:36:12 holycow [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:47 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:37:21 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 10:38:56 I don't see why you're using ~#[ there. Perhaps you just want ~{~a~^, ~} ? 10:39:43 ~#[ is the crying-vampire-with-moustache smiley 10:40:08 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:11 not sure about ~{~a~^, ~} but it looks vaguely kinky 10:40:51 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:20 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:42:32 haha, ones own imagination is a freedom! 10:43:42 bittin` [n=user@c-65c570d5.013-56-73746f5.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:43:51 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:44:08 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 10:47:20 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 10:49:03 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:49:13 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 10:52:12 -!- heyman [n=bite@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:55:10 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-140-177.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:01:18 -!- bittin` [n=user@c-65c570d5.013-56-73746f5.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:04:09 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087B6F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:01 -!- HET2 [n=diman@v254-120.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:06:48 -!- abdullah [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-84db6f59b63a0d7e] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 11:08:26 abdullah1 [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8955360070394aa2] has joined #lisp 11:12:44 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:15:23 adityo [n=adityo@59.183.31.58] has joined #lisp 11:15:23 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 11:18:55 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 11:27:11 -!- Ragnaroek [i=8f5df9eb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7ea634fe9128b0ad] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 11:28:15 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit ["leaving"] 11:30:02 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-176-191.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:32:13 HET2 [n=diman@v254-120.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:33:35 -!- robewald [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:33:38 robewald [n=robert@105.81-167-153.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:46 kleppari_ [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 11:37:00 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #lisp 11:37:16 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 11:40:33 in-code-we-trust [n=Miranda@213.129.54.27] has joined #lisp 11:40:36 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:43:22 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:16 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:45:23 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 11:46:35 abdullah1 pasted "clbuild" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77809 11:47:52 -!- adityo [n=adityo@59.183.31.58] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 11:48:02 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:48:16 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 11:51:52 The question holds for ~{~a~^, ~}: can I specify that the separator be an arg ? 11:52:03 no 11:52:44 Xof: thanks 11:55:14 hi everyone 11:55:45 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:56:32 hello abdullah1 11:57:53 bittin- [i=bittin@anapnea.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:54 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:57:55 -!- HET2 [n=diman@v254-120.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:58:35 adityo [n=adityo@59.183.31.58] has joined #lisp 12:00:26 -!- adityo [n=adityo@59.183.31.58] has quit [Client Quit] 12:02:11 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:04:47 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:06:46 -!- abdullah1 [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8955360070394aa2] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 12:10:42 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:10:46 frank_s_ [n=frank@41.145.42.12] has joined #lisp 12:10:48 c|mell [n=cmell@nttkyo036048.tkyo.nt.ngn.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:10:50 -!- frank_s [n=frank@41.145.42.12] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:16:06 LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-120-dynamic.51-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:18:01 -!- in-code-we-trust [n=Miranda@213.129.54.27] has quit [Client Quit] 12:19:27 -!- mcox [n=markcox@203-214-126-107.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:21:08 a-s` [n=user@85.9.55.98] has joined #lisp 12:24:07 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:22 gz [n=gz@216.143.72.2] has joined #lisp 12:27:22 LiamH [n=healy@129-2-175-69.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:27:29 ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 12:28:34 hello, how can I make slime to put fasl files in a separate directory, not to where the source file is (too much clutter that way)? 12:28:55 I mean C-c C-k 12:29:24 see the `slime-compile-file-options' Emacs variable 12:29:46 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:32:10 blandest: thanks! 12:38:40 -!- ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 12:40:54 Beginnerstudent [n=Beginner@salle005.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 12:41:07 Beginnerstudent0 [n=Beginner@salle005.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 12:41:36 -!- wormilwork [n=Miranda@adsl-070-155-056-058.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:43:00 -!- Beginnerstudent0 [n=Beginner@salle005.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 12:46:51 -!- chpln [n=chpln@ppp121-45-157-74.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:49:48 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:50:57 kuwabara: (format t (format nil "~~{~~A~~^~A~~}" separator) list) 12:51:36 kuwabara: (format t "~{~A~^~A~}" (mapcan (lambda (item) (list item separator)) list)) 12:51:50 Beginnerstudent: Having problems with the project? 12:52:24 Laser focused professor! 12:53:03 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:53:46 I recall once a message on usenet after a blatant request to solve a homework problem: Kate, if you're having problems with your homework, please see me after class. 12:54:41 dlowe: Devastating! 12:55:22 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 13:00:52 ninco [i=ninco@host-84-222-163-249.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 13:02:45 -!- ninco [i=ninco@host-84-222-163-249.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 13:03:06 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:03:27 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-133-128.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:06 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:16 -!- gz [n=gz@216.143.72.2] has quit [] 13:05:24 ryepup1 [n=ryepup@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 13:07:56 Hmm. I never knew movitz had a decent x86 assembler in it. 13:08:09 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit ["Am I missing an eyebrow?"] 13:08:32 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 13:08:40 ZabaQ: I think that one was rewritten relatively recently. 13:09:37 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-127.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:11:51 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 13:17:26 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 13:17:35 matimago: that fails utterly if the separator is #\~ 13:21:13 dmitry_vk [n=dvk@89.232.126.96] has joined #lisp 13:21:39 the first one, that is 13:22:34 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:23:18 I wondered for a second if Kristof and Xof were having a conversation with each other 13:25:51 kuwabara: Oops! Krystof is right. (format t (format nil "~~{~~A~~^~A~~}" (tilde-escape separator)) list) 13:26:49 tritchey: Sometimes such radical measures are necessary if you want intelligent reactions to your remarks. 13:27:42 FZ [n=user@unaffiliated/fz] has joined #lisp 13:28:39 KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:29:58 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-133-128.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 13:31:12 deliana [n=deliana@147.210.246.189] has joined #lisp 13:31:43 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.163.245] has left #lisp 13:32:36 elderK [n=zk@122-57-255-204.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 13:32:55 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-193-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:01 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:35:22 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 13:40:31 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 13:42:34 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:47:15 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:32 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:10 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1EA95.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:57:22 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1FE0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:52 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsler229.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:58:20 -!- jaykub [n=jaykub@ip68-97-197-157.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [] 13:58:40 jaykub [n=jaykub@ip68-97-197-157.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:52 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:11 wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-145-79.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:55 -!- UnwashedMeme1 is now known as UnwashedMeme 14:03:21 -!- Beginnerstudent [n=Beginner@salle005.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:03:38 I guess Beginnerstudent had no questions today. 14:04:12 u-bordeaux1.fr? 14:04:18 unfortunate domain name 14:04:33 in what way? 14:05:39 Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:09:20 ivan4th [n=ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 14:09:34 for the french, the meaning is so immediate (like ucla) I wonder what you mean, rsynnott 14:13:00 yipstar [n=user@cpe-74-64-96-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:03 beach: will you have a bit of time in a few minutes to cross-check the changes I've made to the paper? 14:14:15 Xof: absolutely! 14:16:26 the '1' :) 14:16:31 are they numbered? 14:17:15 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:18:21 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:23 rsynnott: yes 14:18:32 -!- rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-e12b32f013fba412] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:18:46 rsynnott: 1, 2, 3, and 4 at the moment, yes. 14:19:45 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:20:07 or actually, 1, 2, 3 and IV 14:20:23 ah :) 14:20:56 goblin [n=goblin@mail.skepsis.ro] has joined #lisp 14:21:19 started doing lists...learning about sort. I can sort a list of numbers but how do I sort one containing strings? 14:21:29 rsynnott: for a while there I thought you were going to say something like "it could be confused with a great wine district". 14:21:39 goblin: use string as comparison function 14:21:55 beach: no, no, I realise bordeaux is an actual city 14:22:01 I just found the number surprising 14:22:03 I was making a joike 14:22:05 joke, even 14:22:08 :) 14:22:16 (sort (list 'a'c'b) #'>) 14:22:22 what would I look into there? 14:22:45 goblin: Those are not strings, but symbols 14:22:53 #'string> 14:23:25 goblin: (sort (list "hello" "hi there" "bonjour") #'string>) 14:23:40 symbols would work too 14:23:44 danke 14:23:48 (sort (list 'a 'b 'c) (lambda (x y) (string> (symbol-name x) (symbol-name y)))) 14:23:50 perhaps 14:24:02 rsynnott: no, just string> 14:24:15 symbols are string designators 14:24:51 oh, string> works on symbols, I see :) 14:25:23 -!- jfactor [n=jfactor@student164-103.hampshire.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:25:29 i guess, all string* functions fowrk on string designators 14:25:39 except stringp 14:26:14 s/fowrk/work/ 14:26:38 beach: in dublin, our solution to multiple universities is random combinations of the letters 'D', 'C' and 'U' :) 14:26:41 do any of you guys use lisp as a scripting language? 14:26:42 -!- FZ [n=user@unaffiliated/fz] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:26:46 to get system info and whatnot? 14:26:47 (UCD, DCU, TCD (DU)) 14:26:57 goblin: yes 14:27:02 goblin: it can be done, but it's not entirely in its element 14:27:18 that's my "ultimate" goal so wanted to ask it it's going to be a painful process (I know bash) 14:27:20 there are a couple of compatibility libs which might be helpful 14:27:25 (cl-fad, for instance) 14:27:27 rsynnott: sort of like Judean People's Front, and People's Front of Judea? 14:27:34 would like to stay away from special libs for this one 14:27:39 indeed 14:27:41 goblin: I wouldn't use it as a shell 14:27:56 basically I want to cat files | and use awk and the likes then output 14:27:58 nothing fancy 14:28:13 goblin: I'm not sure there's a reason for you to switch, then 14:28:16 but I'd like to be able to use lisp to do the awk part 14:28:21 goblin: look up for scsh (scheme shell) 14:28:46 I'm just learning now..just got to lists..way long until I use a lisp shell :) 14:28:47 but thanks 14:28:53 it's Scheme48 with special extensions for shell scripting (much better than bourne shell, IMHO) 14:29:00 beach: revised copy at http://doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/tmp/dn-article-20090331.pdf 14:29:37 Xof: got it. 14:30:26 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 14:30:27 -!- ``Erik [n=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:30:27 I am most unsure of the bits where the copy editor has put "is this construction correct (?)" as his annotation 14:30:31 Xof: if you stick around, I'll have it done in a few minutes. 14:30:36 will do 14:30:42 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:32:02 Page 2 looks fine. 14:33:27 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.190.219] has joined #lisp 14:33:48 that's a start, anyway :-) 14:36:32 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:38:18 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 14:40:40 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:41:57 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit ["Be back later"] 14:42:43 Xof: what's with the page numbering? 14:43:54 that's what he asked for 14:43:57 we start on page 9 14:44:47 OK. 14:44:47 (this detail was in the word .doc he sent) 14:44:57 (I think it's a she, no?) 14:45:15 OK, you missed "connaissances profondes" on page 5 14:45:35 Xof: I only read part of the .doc. You are probably right. 14:45:52 beach: a colleague suggested making it singular instead 14:46:03 but maybe plural is more right? 14:46:04 dec142 [n=Declan@86-45-251-226-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:05 I don't know 14:46:31 probably should be plural given that's what the editor suggested 14:46:32 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-240-207.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:46:53 -!- dec142 [n=Declan@86-45-251-226-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has left #lisp 14:46:54 Yes, and you didn't do it. 14:47:20 well, it started out as non-agreed (one singular one plural :) 14:47:27 On page 6, there are two occurrences of "ceux qui traite" to be changed to "ceux qui traitent", but you only fixed the first one. 14:47:40 thanks 14:48:16 Xof: ah, but in the annotated PDF, it is clear that the suggestion is plural 14:49:13 yep. OK, fixed 14:50:04 ``Erik [n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org] has joined #lisp 14:50:58 Xof: and I guess no period after the caption in figure3? 14:51:08 oo, thought I'd caught those. Thanks 14:51:09 (even though they didn't mention it explicitly) 14:51:23 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-193-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:51:24 figure 2 too 14:51:31 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-154-244.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 14:51:44 and 4. So much for my own consistency 14:54:24 -!- goblin [n=goblin@mail.skepsis.ro] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:54:30 Xof: both `e's take an accent in élément 14:54:58 4.1 next to last paragraph 14:55:46 whoops. Do you agree with me that when we're talking about the data type it should be unaccented? 14:55:47 les partitions représentées 14:55:51 that is when it's in << >> 14:55:57 Xof: yes, definitely 14:56:01 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:56:30 hello. has anybody expieriences with tkpng in cl and ltk? 14:56:40 les partitions représentées (last paragraph of 4.1) 14:57:05 ? 14:57:06 yes 14:57:13 sorry, "yes" addressed to beach 14:57:21 ok 14:58:13 Xof: "et puis de reconstruire une structure isomorphe" 14:58:21 mvilleneuve: I am counting on you to follow this :) 14:58:43 got that one 14:59:02 -!- LiamH [n=healy@129-2-175-69.wireless.umd.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:02:11 dwave [n=ask@084202072173.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 15:02:17 Xof: "est une simple question de parcours des caractères" would probably be better (last paragraph of section 4) 15:02:23 -!- djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 15:02:39 djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has joined #lisp 15:03:16 ok 15:04:37 beach: sorry I haven't been following this so far :) Do you need someone to help you reread a document? 15:06:17 Xof, beach: Can I assume the copy editor flagged the obvious grammar bits? 15:06:32 I certainly hope so 15:06:42 Xof: 6.1 peut-être utilisé -> peut être utilisé (no hyphen) 15:06:54 willb [n=wibenton@wireless92.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:06:55 pkhuong: yes, that's what we are fixing now 15:07:11 relying on a Swede and an Englishman to fix basic grammar problems... well, even with mitigating circumstances, it's not great :) 15:07:14 mvilleneuve: probably not. We'll send it off in a few minutes. 15:07:17 ooh, French day 15:07:19 beach: got it 15:07:48 it's on-topic! It's a paper about lisp! 15:08:05 (I wish you guys would have it a year in the future, when I'd be able to understand things :)) 15:08:30 hm... i dont speak french... and i dont speak Tk... :/ 15:12:55 Xof: in 8, I think they meant to say toute sorte d'informationS, because they use extraites a bit further. 15:13:46 might that be sorteS d'information? or sorteS d'informationS? 15:14:30 toutes sortes d'information. 15:15:01 matimago: you sure? 15:15:22 Well I lack the context, but normally, yes. 15:15:25 is the shorthand ("d' instead of de") acceptable in an academic paper? 15:15:38 I think I was taught that both were accepted (when used as a prefix) 15:15:42 Xof: in 8, instead of saying peut-être basées, to avoid confusion, I would say, "éventuellement basées" 15:15:43 cmm: it's not a shorthand. 15:15:54 cmm: yes. It's an elision not something analogous to "don't" 15:16:07 ah, I think I see 15:16:45 matimago: could you read that passage and confirm? 15:16:51 in the paper I mean 15:16:55 beach: got that one. 15:17:36 newlisper [n=wschroed@128.252.233.244] has joined #lisp 15:17:46 That takes care of them all I think. 15:17:56 thank you 15:18:00 Ship it! (after matimago comes back with his opinion) 15:18:00 Downloading the pdf... 15:18:08 I will retex, do a final sanity check and send 15:18:26 beach: yeah. (And I'm asking for a fourth opinion too :) 15:18:29 I agree about "toutes sortes de choses" 15:19:05 "toutes sortes d'informations ... peut-être extraites ..."? 15:19:10 Well, both singular or plural would do in this sentence I think. 15:19:26 "toutes sortes d'informations ... peuvent être extraites" 15:20:01 although "toute sorte d'informations ... peuvent être extraites" would be correct as well, but looks a bit weird to me 15:20:06 OK, éventuellement extraites then? 15:20:19 No, because "peut-être extraites" is a qualificatif of the "sortes". 15:20:30 Yes,in this case you keep the dash. 15:20:33 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:20:34 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:44 potentiellement? 15:20:45 I would have said it was qualifying the "information" 15:20:51 me too 15:20:58 however many kinds of information there eventually turn out to be 15:21:11 but yeah, go for pkhuong's suggestion, that solves the problem 15:21:11 mvilleneuve: you would need a "que" before, if you replace "peut-être" with "peuvent être". 15:21:46 Xof: "toutes sortes d'informations, potentiellement extraites ..." 15:22:06 any votes against? 15:22:09 ... 15:22:10 no? 15:22:15 sold to the professor from Bordeaux 15:22:17 thanks, all 15:22:22 YAY! 15:22:27 Yes, thanks everyone! 15:23:50 I knew IRC would be useful one day :) 15:24:13 we now return you to your scheduled lisp-in-english conversation 15:24:26 anyone want to debug sbcl xc fasl not-quite-similarities? 15:24:27 (after this short break...) 15:24:31 -!- prip [n=_prip@host39-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:24:56 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:51 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@68.237.103.77] has joined #lisp 15:29:58 clearly our phenomenal command of the French language has stunned the channel occupants into silence :-/ 15:30:18 willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless92.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:30:48 -!- schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c9023c54a500c0b6] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 15:31:12 -!- bfein_ [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:32:03 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless92.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:32:21 -!- a-s` [n=user@85.9.55.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:32:47 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:32:58 mais non! 15:33:06 -!- dmitry_vk [n=dvk@89.232.126.96] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:34:06 oui oui 15:35:17 :) 15:36:31 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:36:57 bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:38:20 Xof: so the latest difference was a matter of different results of floating-point operations in CLISP and SBCL? 15:38:23 tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:47 yes, and different floating point constants (e.g. least-positive-double-float: clisp doesn't support denormals) 15:39:02 I am down to 10 files in src/code exhibiting differences 15:39:07 what does it do instead? 15:39:11 underflow 15:39:20 hmm 15:39:45 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has joined #lisp 15:40:48 2 are ' vs QUOTE in the printed representation of something; one is a gensym from some source that I haven't tracked down. 2 are float-related, 4 have code-length differences (some piece of code is compiled to something actually different) and one is the ecx/edx permutation 15:41:36 the first two cases are trivial as long as they're not concealing something else later in the file; the other three cases need fixing 15:41:39 and we decided the last one was about differences in sort? 15:42:07 that can be no more than a guess 15:42:21 interestingly, the clisp-built cold-core has started to work 15:42:38 that is surprising 15:42:42 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:43:10 And why exactly are you doing this? I didn't think CLISP was that important to the SBCL crowd anymore. 15:43:22 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has quit ["this is not a quit message"] 15:43:42 because a difference is indicative of a leak from the host environment into the target 15:44:00 Ah, yes, I see. 15:44:29 for instance, until I started this work an sbcl compiled from clisp can't sort vectors longer than 2^24 elements 15:44:47 because the host's most-positive-fixnum leaked over 15:44:59 makes perfect sense 15:45:10 similarly, a 64-bit sbcl compiled from a 32-bit sbcl can't sort vectors longer than 2^29 elements 15:45:20 fun! 15:45:24 hm... does anybody know a GUI-Toolkit for common lisp supporting PNG (i.e. buttons showing PNG-Images on them)? I thought of Ltk but actually i dont know how to use TkPNG from Lisp. 15:45:38 what about a 64bit sbcl compiled from a 64bit sbcl compiled from a 32bit sbcl? :) 15:45:43 that would be fine 15:45:56 doesn't McCLIM support PNGs these days? 15:45:57 the most-positive-fixnum is corrected at that point? 15:46:05 no, the most-positive-fixnum is always correct 15:46:24 schoppenhauer: there's some documentation about using arbitrary TK stuff from LTK on the LTK site, I think 15:46:35 oh, but the sorting stuff isn't? 15:46:37 but some code running in the sbcl has been compiled including a declaration which uses the host's value of the fixnum limit 15:46:47 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless92.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:46:54 schoppenhauer: alternatively, CommonQT seems quite usable, and QT does support PNGs 15:47:01 willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless92.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:47:07 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-120-dynamic.51-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 15:47:14 instead of saying "the index of this vector will always be a target-fixnum", we say "the index of this vector will always be a host-fixnum" 15:47:24 which is wrong if host-fixnum and target-fixnum aren't the same 15:47:45 (however, I'm not sure if anyone has gotten CommonQT going on windows yet; it should certainly be possible, as PhpQT and Qyoto, which use the same mechanism works 15:47:59 rsynnott: thanks. i think i try CommonQT 15:48:23 deliana: do you know whether McCLIM can handle PNGs? 15:48:38 it's easy to setup on linux, macos instructions here: http://myblog.rsynnott.com/2009/03/macos-fun-with-commonqt-qt-for-common.html 15:48:40 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 15:49:04 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:17 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:50:50 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 15:51:16 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:51:38 beach: no, never tried it 15:51:46 schoppenhauer, could you not use hunchentoot and browser interface? Maybe not, but it's table and supports png :) 15:52:00 oops table/stable 15:52:03 wentbackward: ROFL that was what I first thought of ^^ 15:52:11 -!- bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:52:23 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 15:52:28 wentbackward: but i wanted to do something cleaner ^^ 15:52:57 (#_show (#_new QPushButton (#_new QIcon "foo.png") "foo")) ;wfm 15:53:02 bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:49 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 15:53:58 -!- Qsquare [n=dima@208.75.91.170] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:54:18 lichtblau: have you heard of anyone using commonqt on windows, btw? 15:54:18 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [Client Quit] 15:55:56 no. "using" would come after "compiling", I suppose, which will be possible but a little annoying 15:56:31 hm... it doesnt need to compile under windows for me... 15:56:44 something keeping me from using hunchentoot ... security 15:56:47 on multiuser-systems 15:57:19 lichtblau: extremely annoying, it seems 15:57:22 I gave it a try 15:57:28 What I thought of was maybe embedding webkit or gecko ... but they seem not to have a simple API.. 15:57:31 (though I'm not particularly at home on windows) 15:57:35 rsynnott: how far did you get? 15:57:45 I had a smoke dll 15:58:04 but gcc wasn't happy about linking against it 15:58:15 I suspect that the dll was generated incorrectly 15:58:44 (I used a patch that one of the Qyoto people wrote for the makefile for windows compilation, but I'm not convinced it's quite right) 15:58:51 brandelune [n=suzume@pl064.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:58:59 I was also able to compile the commonqt thing 15:59:15 but linking it all togther broke, with gcc claiming the dll was not a proper dll 15:59:38 could webkit be a good choice? 15:59:50 hmm, but the smoke dll was built by the same gcc from mingw, right? why wouldn't it want to link against a dll it just created itself? 15:59:58 yep, it was 16:00:00 that puzzled me 16:00:08 and a simple test DLL I made DID work 16:00:26 so I suspect there may be a problem with how the amended makefile was compiling the smoke dll 16:00:31 mooto [n=chatzill@59.172.141.173] has joined #lisp 16:00:49 must have another look at it, actually 16:00:55 oudeis [n=oudeis@79.183.118.182] has joined #lisp 16:01:17 (I've been too busy with work to get around to it recently, and the only way I have to do it is on a slow unpleasant VM on VMWare fusion) 16:01:47 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@68.237.103.77] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 16:03:02 schoppenhauer: good choice for what? Show HTML in your Lisp GUI? 16:03:16 lichtblau: showing GUIS in general ^^ 16:03:34 lichtblau: i mean Gecko or Webkit should be portable, shouldnt they? 16:03:43 oh, you mean show HTML instead of a traditional GUI? 16:03:56 lichtblau: yes. and instead of using a whole webserver. 16:04:25 schoppenhauer, I can't see it would solve your security issues, apart from perhaps embed them in a binary. 16:04:49 Sure, if you like. So far, CommonQt binds to the Qt classes needed to show HTML in a Qt GUI, but not the bindings to fiddle with Webkit classes directly. 16:04:59 (let ((view (#_new QWebView))) (#_show view) (#_load view (#_new QUrl "http://common-lisp.net"))) 16:05:14 *lichtblau* will stop pasting Qt snippets now 16:05:30 wentbackward: when I have a webserver and use a browser, then another browser could also access it. when i embed gecko, maybe i can pass the html-code directly without a socket. 16:05:48 lichtblau: please don't - they're good advertising 16:05:53 schoppenhauer, hunchentoot + security .. do you mean stuff like SSL? .. i do that in the front-end proxy (lighttpd or apache) 16:05:54 you should probably be able to do that in principle 16:06:08 lnostdal: no ^^ 16:06:26 but would it really be much better than just bundling hunchentoot and having the user use a web brower? 16:06:46 hm. if it was easy to implement, yes. 16:06:51 if it was hard to implement then no. 16:07:25 i mean using hunchentoot for a GUI only made for local access is ... a hack. 16:08:14 hm, yah .. need real tcp sockets for that .. some local-unix, say, style sockets won't work 16:08:42 lichtblau: i guess you're the author of cl-zip... did you see by chance the mail i wrote to cl-zip some weeks ago? 16:08:57 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has quit [No route to host] 16:09:02 Qsource [n=dima@208.75.91.170] has joined #lisp 16:09:20 schoppenhauer: you could, of course, just use a GUI library 16:09:26 who is the intended user? 16:09:50 schoppenhauer, and what platform? 16:10:01 i think mozilla has a version of gecko made for "off-line mode" .. maybe it has support for local sockets or something 16:10:31 abeaumont: Probably not. I'm not subscribed to the mailing list, I think. 16:14:03 lichtblau: i got an error with sbcl and unzip -> http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/zip-devel/2009-March/000050.html 16:14:14 rsynnott: i am the intended user, but i want it to be platform-independend 16:14:38 prip [n=_prip@host39-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:16:21 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:17:01 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:18:35 -!- willb1 is now known as willb 16:18:40 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless92.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:18:53 willb [n=wibenton@wireless92.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:19:44 goblin [n=goblin@89.136.174.25] has joined #lisp 16:20:26 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 16:21:17 I see someone got the old idea of using WebKit and embedded Hunchentoot out? ;D 16:21:30 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:23:15 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 16:24:01 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 16:26:00 nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:57 -!- ZabaQ [n=jconnors@194-105-174-193.ifb.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:27:25 hopefully it does not become a common thing 16:27:37 HTML/Javascript/CSS does really not an ideal UI make 16:28:12 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@79.183.118.182] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:28:22 There's always Tk... ugly, but everybody supports it, and it is flexible. 16:28:39 and then there's CLIM :) 16:28:52 I need a good tutorial for that. I found it confusing at a glance. :( 16:29:08 (I also did not have a project in mind at the time) 16:29:47 Our house is aligned with one of the runways of the Bordeaux airport, and it is always impressive to take out the trash and then seeing an Airbus pointing its nose seemingly right at you. 16:29:56 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:30:32 *rsynnott* used to live directly under a flightpath 16:30:49 beach: it's even more impressive when you know its engines produce more power than a small powerplant :D 16:30:51 *rsynnott* now just lives beside where a tram line is being built, which is far noisier 16:31:01 There was a "flightpath café" in Austin, but then they moved the airport. 16:31:16 (though apparently it is likely to be suspended due to the total economic collapse thing) 16:31:27 *p_l* lived under a glideslope/approach path ever since he was 4yo 16:31:33 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:32:36 p_l: did you know a jumbo jet takes as much fuel per distance and passenger as an automobile, or rougly so. 16:33:07 *goblin* buys a jet 16:33:09 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:33:18 beach: I don't know exact numbers, but I sure as hell love the sound of its engines :D 16:33:18 p_l: This means that my thinking I was ecologically sound by not having a car, is totally compensated for by my going to Vietnam twice a year. 16:34:17 beach: the exception is that using another means of transport to get there would produce much more waste etc. 16:34:20 beach: assuming that the plane was full, and that you would otherwise have driven to vietnam twice a year :) 16:34:42 rsynnott: something like that yes :) 16:34:59 (ship would be generally more efficient, or, in the case of the russian nuclear container ship, emmissions-free, but rather slow and impractical) 16:35:08 also, unlike car makers, aircrafts always have fuel efficiency in mind 16:35:34 rsynnott: I think it would be efficient only in case of nuclear ship and having a waste processing system on board 16:35:35 Borbus [i=borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:11 p_l: not necessarily; until the recent jump in oil prices boeing was still developing a massively fuel-inefficient aircraft which WOULD be slightly faster than current ones 16:36:16 (marginally sub-sonic) 16:36:20 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 16:36:35 p_l: a _nuclear_ waste processing system on board?! 16:36:49 rsynnott: no, waste that the passengers produce 16:37:08 ah 16:37:32 also, fuel efficiency in aircrafts means something different than for cars. For the very simple reason that you don't have the option of stopping in case you run out of it :D 16:37:34 Ah, yes. A long-distance aircraft always looks like a battle field when one steps off. 16:37:52 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:37:59 okay, one of those nuclear planes, then :) 16:38:06 (one did apparently fly, once, maybe) 16:38:15 rsynnott: won't get one for a long time, and no, none had flown 16:38:33 a US plane certainly flew with an operating reactor abord 16:38:56 a soviet one may have flown with the reactor actually powering the engines, but Russia does not comment on it 16:39:06 I can only imagine the protests if that were to be attempted today. 16:39:08 rsynnott: that doesn't mean it was powered with it. And no, they haven't flown as far as I know 16:39:17 -!- goblin [n=goblin@89.136.174.25] has left #lisp 16:39:18 For the simple reason of lack of efficiency 16:40:04 (the offending plane was a modified Bear bomber with the usual turboprops, plus some sort of turbofan thing meant to be driven by hot gas from a reactor; it's unclear if the latter were ever actually used) 16:40:38 rsynnott: I doubt it. There's just way too many problems even with current-day stuff 16:40:52 now, a small-scale thermonuclear reactor... 16:40:55 Since ' is short for quote, is ` short for anything? 16:41:22 p_l: there certainly are small fission reactors 16:41:35 (they used to be used to power a certain type of spy satellite) 16:41:41 (not RTGs, proper reactors) 16:41:43 Borbus: not in Common Lisp, but in Scheme it is. 16:42:43 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:42:55 Was it turned into a language feature for common lisp then? 16:43:09 rsynnott: NASA is/was building a new reactor system for satellites, but afaik most of the stuff still uses nuclear batteries 16:43:27 Borbus: I don't know what you mean by that, but the Common Lisp standard doesn't specify what the reader turns that into. 16:43:38 clhs ` 16:43:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 16:45:21 rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-052a733d7fcee144] has joined #lisp 16:46:26 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 16:46:36 p_l: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RORSAT 16:46:56 but yep, most do use RTGs 16:47:13 (or occasionally those beta radiation generator things, but they're terribly inefficient) 16:48:59 Borbus: ` is a reader macro that is allowed to do the structural coalescing at read time 16:49:50 tcr: I am not sure that was quite understandable to Borbus. 16:49:58 I might be wrong of course. 16:50:22 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 16:50:41 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:08 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:52:54 afk 16:53:35 rockon [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:53:36 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:53:36 does SBCL have a good non-returning function i can use when building a daemon process? 16:53:58 clhs loop 16:53:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 16:54:09 stassats: loop is not a function :) 16:54:33 (loop (sleep 666)) 16:54:41 preferably something that will just wait for a kill signal or something... wasn't looking to spin the processor :-) 16:55:04 should it not wait for some socket (or similar), activity, UnwashedMeme ? 16:55:06 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:55:16 can't you just run your thing in the foreground and not have an idling thread? 16:55:17 ..then when it is done with "one step" -- repeat that process 16:55:18 could someone please tell me how to get SLIME to automatically change its working directory upon startup? 16:55:19 lnostdal: other threads are waiting on the sockets 16:55:50 ok, i don't understand the question or the problem then 16:55:53 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087B6F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:56:42 the initial thread spawns a coupe of new threads, and then that function is returning causing the process to exit, i don't want to return, should i join-threads to everything else? 16:56:42 UnwashedMeme: you could use pause(2) or (loop (sleep 1000)) 16:57:02 i mean .. start sbcl, but don't call sb-ext:quit ..? 16:57:28 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsler229.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:57:44 lnostdal: when creating images with save-lisp-and-die, it takes toplevel function that isn't supposed to return, i'm trying to figure out the best way to make that not return without starting the repl 16:57:57 ah, ok 16:58:33 guess the others have answered then 16:58:35 H4ns: pause(3) looks mighty promising, thanks 16:59:35 who wants to be that, after all this careful deliberation, he ends up doing (loop (sleep 1000)) anyway? 16:59:41 bet. 17:00:14 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:00:15 (maybe my weekend project should be hacking a grammar checker into beirc, given all the trouble I seem to have) 17:00:32 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:00:38 hefner: (sleep most-positive-fixnum) 17:00:53 ;-) 17:00:59 rockon: Why do you want that? 17:01:15 UnwashedMeme: why stop at most-positive-fixnum? :) 17:01:30 most-positive-bignum 17:02:06 rsynnott: because i don't want to implement the ackermann function? 17:02:58 tcr: I would like to have SLIME automatically change its working directory to the directory where all my source code is upon startup 17:03:25 tcr: I am using lisp in a box 17:03:30 Yikes, let's not do that. 17:04:28 rockon: put (defun my-slime () (interactive) (cd "/path/") (slime)) into your .emacs, then you can use M-x my-slime 17:04:50 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 17:05:24 tcr: that's great! rockon! 17:05:33 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:41 tcr: seriously though thanks for your help I will try that 17:05:47 mvillene1ve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:11 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 17:07:51 mvilleneuve: go away! 17:08:07 mvillene1ve: Is your nick registered? 17:08:19 If so /msg nickserv help ghost 17:08:28 tcr: ah thanks 17:08:33 mvillene1ve: /msg nickserv ghost mvilleneuve 17:09:06 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:09:24 great, thanks! 17:09:25 beach: Will you be at ELS? 17:09:29 -!- mvillene1ve is now known as mvilleneuve 17:09:57 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4599.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:10:07 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:10:38 beach: you are correct.. I only started learning lisp today :) 17:11:12 Borbus: congratulations! 17:11:21 Common Lisp that is (is it normal to just call common lisp "lisp"?) 17:11:34 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:40 Yeah, that's usually fine, at least here. 17:12:25 I got the book Practical Common Lisp a while ago but I just got enough time to start reading it 17:13:00 aggieben [n=chatzill@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:57 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:14:36 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-125-22-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:14:37 Borbus: also check out the following) http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/index.html 17:15:04 Borbus: and this http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html 17:15:29 Borbus: and this http://www.lisperati.com/casting.html 17:15:44 Borbus: I'm new to CL as well 17:18:35 rockon: those are good too, but I'd recommend starting with Practical Common Lisp (unless the reader knows nothing at all about programming, in which case Touretzky's book may be better)... 17:20:08 The last one has some funny pictures 17:20:34 mvilleneuve: Practical CL seems to enjoy a very good reputation 17:20:41 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ed9f1be3f99b6417] has joined #lisp 17:23:20 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:13 rockon: That's because gigamonkey comes here pretty frequently. 17:25:09 well, i think that's because it actually is a good book 17:25:31 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-059-025-060.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:25:38 stassats: Of course. By coming here, he improved the quality of it considerably! :) 17:25:40 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:25:44 wormilwork [n=Miranda@adsl-070-155-056-058.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:47 Someone in #emacs recommended it to me.. originally I wanted to learn emacs lisp but I think common lisp would be a better investment 17:26:00 Borbus: definitely! 17:26:42 Borbus: you'll find that learning CL helps you customize Emacs, of course, even though Emacs uses a different dialect of Lisp to which CL is far superior 17:27:25 rockon: And it will help him customize Climacs even more. :) 17:27:52 heh :) 17:28:33 mvilleneuve: I can't quite get used to seeing you here this late! 17:29:46 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:29:55 beach: never heard of Climacs before, checking it out now on the web... 17:30:04 beach: that's the beauty of working with Lisp now :) 17:31:13 minion: please tell rockon about Climacs. 17:31:14 rockon: direct your attention towards Climacs: Climacs is an Emacs-like text editor written in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/Climacs 17:31:25 mvilleneuve: What about your social life? 17:31:41 mvilleneuve: Oh, wait, everyone knows that people with their own companies don't have one. 17:31:43 beach: I don't care anymore! :) 17:31:50 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483C011.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:53 true :) 17:31:55 mvilleneuve: Get married fast! 17:32:48 beach: 3.5 months left, is that fast enough? 17:32:50 minion: thanks 17:32:50 no problem 17:33:15 mvilleneuve: what does your company do? 17:33:27 mvilleneuve: It will depend on how much you hang out here in the evening! 17:33:53 aggieben: applications for mobile phones 17:34:05 rockon: minion is a, er, not sure how to put this, not quite human thing. 17:34:15 mvilleneuve: what app domain? 17:34:54 beach: he prefers the term "electronically composed" 17:35:11 hefner: that's what I was looking for! Thanks! 17:35:54 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:36:04 hefner: but how do you know minion is a "he"? 17:36:25 beach: are you talking about climacs? 17:36:40 i think minion is a "she" 17:36:42 rockon: no, about minion 17:36:56 minion: are you a he? 17:36:57 maybe 17:37:16 minion: I bet you are a bot, right? 17:37:16 Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 19 seconds is too many. 17:37:37 minion: are you a bot? 17:37:58 hm. Maybe not, after all... 17:38:03 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:13 minion is pouting! 17:38:19 Yes, seems like she 17:39:02 :) 17:39:26 is minion a servant of the devil spawn from the 9th level of hades and wielding the thunder axe of Thor able to do upwards of 80 HP of damage to all those who threaten his REPL? 17:39:30 Someone should change that message to something like "oh leave me alone, will you?" 17:40:03 is anyone laughed at my above comment you are seriously sick 17:40:09 is=if 17:40:16 When I read some line from file using (read-line) I see something like: "foo ^M" Could you tell me what is ^M and how to delete it ? 17:40:30 MrSpec: dos-style line ending. 17:40:43 -!- larstobi [n=larstobi@195.139.173.50] has quit ["leaving"] 17:40:50 rockon: don't worry, nobody did. 17:41:02 beach: ok, you are all free to carry about your business 17:41:05 hmm and can I read it as nothing ? 17:41:17 ignore it, as normal linux-style line ending ? 17:41:22 rockon: relax! I was joking! 17:41:45 rockon: but what is HP? 17:41:59 beach: hit points, a measure of health in most rollplaying games 17:42:01 It's a brown sauce for sausages 17:42:15 *beach* thought it must have been horse-powers 17:42:30 neigh 17:42:43 you can try and see if your implementation implements the external format you're looking for, or trim the last character of the line when it's #\Return 17:42:52 yes. units of damage are measured with an angry mare as a reference. 17:43:10 beach, Haven't you played any RPGs ? 17:43:18 I have battled some nasty horses 17:43:32 MrSpec: I play enough rôles in my daily professional life. 17:43:36 pkhuong, so trim #\return ? or newline too ? 17:44:49 someone save me before my brain turns into a REPL 17:45:15 MrSpec: head of department, whacky foreigner, in charge of courses, you name it. 17:45:30 beach: where do you live? 17:45:51 as in what country 17:45:52 rockon: guess from /whois beach 17:45:59 ok 17:46:19 ah, I'm a whacky foreigner myself 17:46:27 rockon: congratulations! 17:46:38 -!- wentbackward [n=wentback@n219077065141.netvigator.com] has quit [""g'night all""] 17:46:47 beach: thanks 17:46:50 rockon: many people on #lisp are actually. 17:47:02 beach, I thought you were an american in germany 17:47:10 beach: we are all lisping freaks 17:47:17 hmm who is whacky foreigner ? ;) 17:47:25 JuanDaugherty: oh dear! 17:47:25 cant find it in my dictionary ;d 17:47:38 JuanDaugherty: I am a Swede in France! 17:47:43 (sort of) 17:48:09 I guess I have you confused with "strand" somebody which is beach in german 17:48:33 JuanDaugherty: Oh, my German nick is Ufer, but I don't use it very much. 17:48:49 ah 17:49:05 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 17:49:18 JuanDaugherty: also spiaggia and plage 17:49:26 playa was taken unfortunately 17:50:03 But I might register the Vietnamese and Maori translation of "strand". 17:50:08 sort of a swede, or sort of in france? 17:50:10 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:50:17 -!- Qsource [n=dima@208.75.91.170] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:50:19 hefner: sort of a Swede. 17:50:24 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-14.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 17:50:36 hefner: you know how political and ethnical borders are not quite the same. 17:50:44 -!- mooto [n=chatzill@59.172.141.173] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:51:26 Qsource [n=dima@208.75.91.170] has joined #lisp 17:51:40 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCB4E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:06 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:10 -!- deliana [n=deliana@147.210.246.189] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:53:49 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsler229.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:55:16 jao [n=jao@obfw.oblong.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:48 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 17:55:52 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 17:56:27 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:37 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 17:57:52 -!- rockon [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:57:57 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-154-244.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:03:45 larstobi [n=larstobi@195.139.173.50] has joined #lisp 18:04:14 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:06:43 bob_f_ [n=bob@host86-146-210-85.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:51 -!- bob_f_ [n=bob@host86-146-210-85.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:10:17 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1FE0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["quit"] 18:15:00 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:15:01 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Success] 18:18:09 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-111-161.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:20:45 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:21:52 bobf [n=bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 18:24:54 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 18:25:02 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-111-161.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:25:51 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-111-161.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:26:13 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-55-237.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 18:28:10 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:28:14 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 18:28:29 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-81-133.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:29:38 Beket [n=stathis@adsl-253-212.diodos.auth.gr] has joined #lisp 18:30:37 dec142 [n=Declan@86-45-251-226-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:56 -!- dec142 [n=Declan@86-45-251-226-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net] has left #lisp 18:31:03 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:31:47 myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-81-133.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 18:33:45 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 18:37:40 -!- larstobi [n=larstobi@195.139.173.50] has quit ["leaving"] 18:37:45 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.68] has joined #lisp 18:38:02 -!- schmx [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 18:39:14 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:36 hey slyrus_! 18:43:42 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-154-244.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:44:41 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087B6F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:43 woopdeedoo [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:49 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:48:50 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 18:49:37 drewc: here-p 18:51:15 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:12 mulander [n=user@nat-4.interq.pl] has joined #lisp 18:55:05 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-154-244.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:55:17 abdullah_ak2002 [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ea5c52b176960bbc] has joined #lisp 18:57:57 I'd like to make a lisp macro for calculating numbers 'c style', i.e. 5 + 2 instead of (+ 5 2). how do I go about this? 18:58:08 You dont 18:58:37 Dynetrekk: you make a parser and then call it from the macro 18:58:41 Dynetrekk: You program in some other language when you get that urge. 18:59:00 -!- holycow [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:59:02 Dynetrekk: or you google for one of a hundred infix parsers that almost no one uses 18:59:08 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:59:10 hehe, the urge wasn't to do the calculation that way. the urge was to learn lisp 18:59:29 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:59:34 the problem is not interesting, but the thinking to get to the solution is 19:00:54 dlowe: why do I need a parser? can't the macro take 3 arguments, operand, operator, operand? 19:01:18 madnificent: http://common-lisp.net/project/lisp-on-lines/repos/ 19:01:40 madnificent: sorry, /repo/ 19:02:05 sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:03:39 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 19:03:48 Dynetrekk, how often do you work your numbers up? 19:04:00 (when doing a bunch of additions, I like the fact that + is n-ary) 19:04:23 like paying the bills. plists and such. very useful. :-) 19:04:45 tic: as I said, the point was just to learn lisp. in this case, macros (which is what people seem to like the most about lisp) 19:05:09 just start doing it 19:05:23 Dynetrekk, d'oh. my bad; sorry. if the standard four ops are sufficient you could make a code walker. 19:05:24 start doing it? 19:05:35 start making up a solution 19:05:38 Dynetrekk: (defmacro binary-op (x op y) `(,op ,x ,y)) 19:05:40 tic: sufficient enough for learning the principle 19:05:42 don't think beforehand :) 19:05:57 and then go for a more elegant solution 19:06:17 Yeah, describing the use case first and worrying about the implementation later often helps. 19:06:51 hey, neat. hm, now the details.... the ,op means what? "the variable passed at runtime"? 19:07:01 Dynetrekk: if you want to do that without macros, you might also be interested in Shapiro's Common Lisp: An Interactive Approach 19:07:13 it's one of the exercises in that book 19:07:23 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:07:26 freely available on web 19:07:26 Dynetrekk: macros run at compile time 19:07:35 stepnem: I'm not interested in doing it at all. I'm interested in macros. 19:07:43 drewc: I know 19:07:53 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:07:57 drewc: so ,op is the variable, thus far unknown 19:08:04 (in my mind) 19:08:08 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:08:18 Dynetrekk: ok, I thought 'the point was just to learn lisp' 19:08:30 Dynetrekk: (binary-op 1 19:08:30 stepnem: yep, exactly! 19:08:36 sorry 19:08:38 ` is like quote, but with a magic , for temporarily disabling the quote. 19:08:40 abdullah_ak2002 pasted "clbuild" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77825 19:08:46 (binary-op 1 + 2) => 3 19:09:00 drewc: yeah, I tested it. works great 19:09:17 Hi everyone 19:09:28 I have been trying clbuild for some time 19:09:32 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77825 19:09:39 The paste is as given above 19:09:39 drewc: I just wanted to understand more what the ` and , mean 19:09:40 drewc, while you do get the infix notation, it's just /almost/ more verbose than the lisp version. :-) (not to mention you need to generate tertiary, quadr...?, etc. maybe FORMAT can spell it out for you?) 19:09:46 does anyone have a favorite matrix package for lisp? I'm looking for SVD and Ax = b solving, for the most part. matlisp looks all right but kind of dead. an f2cl version of lapack sounds intriguing 19:10:04 I was told that there is some problem with my net connection 19:10:11 Dynetrekk: pcl is good 19:10:13 gonzojive: http://common-lisp.net/project/gsll/ 19:10:18 gonzojive: I use rif's cl-blapack. 19:10:21 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 19:10:28 in that case can you please help me to connect to Some socks server 19:10:32 guaqua: is it? there's so much text. I prefer somewhat denser books. 19:10:32 tic: i never said it was a good idea :) 19:10:35 Ragnaroek [i=54a66519@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-875e742b7c431fc2] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 Dynetrekk: read any basic book on common lisp, they should all cover ` and , 19:11:16 drewc, indeed you did not! I just needed to exercise my fingers. 19:11:17 abdullah_ak2002: no 19:11:24 drewc: hm, okay 19:11:50 -!- abdullah_ak2002 [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ea5c52b176960bbc] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 19:14:18 abdullah_ak2002 [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-58210f223d058ed2] has joined #lisp 19:15:25 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:09 Dynetrekk: In that case, try ANSI Common Lisp by Paul Graham. 19:16:22 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:16:45 beach: will look into it! thanks! 19:17:05 beach: dead-tree book? 19:17:21 Yeah, no online version that I know of. 19:17:33 I think OnLisp is freely available. 19:17:39 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-182-61.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:50 tic: but that hardly counts as an introductory book. 19:18:21 beach, probably not, but I thought we've already covered PCL and wanted some macrology. Or people would've recommended PCL. 19:18:33 *tic* goes back lurking 19:18:55 tic: speaking of which, how are you doing these days? 19:19:38 beach, I'm better! 19:19:48 thanks for asking. 19:19:54 Excellent! Congratulations! 19:20:53 I need to finish this work thingy, and I'll probably have my weekends off again. I've realized, however, that weekday evenings are non-productive -- no serious computing gets done. I think it's valuable to know one's limits so one can work with them, instead of against them. 19:21:23 *tic* has plans and more plans. 19:21:45 I swear, having 3-4 different ways to install and load systems is possibly one of the most maddening things in the world. 19:22:44 sykopomp|work: if you're referring to CL, that's probably your own fault. 19:23:13 hi, why ABCL's tagline is a joke on American's gun law? Is this a political message? 19:23:27 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-11-55.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:28 hefner: I am. And it only partially is. 19:23:54 hefner: it's also partly the fault of every library developer out there that refuses to release their software, and tells everyone to just settle for svn/darcs/git 19:23:58 *rant* 19:25:07 hefner: clbuild handles some of them, but sometimes it's a better idea to use an actual release off asdf-install, and sometimes you just have to manually download a tarball from someone. Woooo 19:25:33 Could you tell me what does "Control stack guard page temporarily disabled: proceed with caution" mean? trace is not showing me anything :\ 19:25:38 Right now cvs is giving me trouble 19:25:48 MrSpec: probably that you are recursing too deep 19:25:50 MrSpec: it means you blew your heap 19:25:57 sykopomp|work: or you can use Gentoo 19:25:59 or not. 19:26:02 hmm but can I trace program in any way ? 19:26:03 I am not able to get the connection through the firewall 19:26:06 abdullah_ak2002: the answer won't change just because you're asking for the third time 19:26:08 trace wont work in this case 19:26:14 fe[nl]ix: or I can avoid going back to that hellhole of a distro. No thanks. 19:26:34 I tried using tsocks and all but I guess is still have some problems 19:27:20 sykopomp|work: I'd prefer to have everything through version control, since it makes it easier to update, at least if it weren't for this recent profusion of VCS I don't know how to operate. 19:27:59 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:28:10 hefner: clbuild is a nice idea, but it's also nice to have actual releases to point to. Things don't all magically work together, and having bugs pop up because you forgot to update for a *day* is pretty cruddy. 19:28:14 abdullah_ak2002: this is not a network support channel.. nobody here can/will help you with your firewall settings. 19:28:32 pkhuong: do you know why cl-blapack doesn't use an f2cl version of lapack instead of the ffi? 19:28:34 I still don't understand where people who get worked up about this are coming from, but I actively avoid things with a lot of dependencies. 19:28:58 Is any other way to trace recursive calls than TRACE ? 19:29:06 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:29:17 MrSpec: put a BREAK somewhere in your function? 19:29:29 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@121.45.109.172] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:29:32 yeah, and print ;) 19:30:57 MrSpec: how about reading the stack trace? 19:31:18 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:33:08 o, how can I do it ? 19:33:28 thios backtrace, thats all ? 19:33:31 this* 19:33:58 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.68] has quit [] 19:34:29 -!- sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:36:32 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:37:16 -!- abdullah_ak2002 [i=cbc4bea2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-58210f223d058ed2] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 19:37:26 MrSpec: Are you using sbcl? 19:37:37 yes 19:37:46 MrSpec: After a break, I can do ":help", and it gives me a "backtrace" option in there. 19:38:04 MrSpec: The secret here was to realize that the debugger commands all begin with a colon (:). 19:38:11 ahh, ok ;) 19:38:15 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-111-161.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:38:21 they do? since when? 19:38:38 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-111-161.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:38:47 -!- jaykub [n=jaykub@ip68-97-197-157.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [] 19:38:54 I have SBCL 0.9.16 installed. 19:39:23 Oh hey. I don't need to use a : after all. 19:39:49 Somewhere I neglected to use that colon, and sbcl complained about not knowing the symbol. When I used the colon, it worked. I don't remember where that was. 19:39:52 <_3b> 0.9.16 is very old 19:40:14 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-240-207.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 19:40:17 newlisper: 0.9.16 is antediluvian 19:40:37 <_3b> lichtblau: are you still doing anything with my flash stuff? 19:40:41 egosh [n=Miranda@212.106.61.218] has joined #lisp 19:40:48 lol 19:41:00 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:41:23 Interesting. apt-get doesn't recognize any later version. 19:41:31 I must be running an old image. 19:41:37 newlisper: debian etch ot something like that? 19:41:39 or a release of debian with no security support 19:41:41 _3b: no, I'm not. We haven't ruled out going a flash route, and then it'd be relevant again, but I'm not hoping for it actually. I'd rather use Qt. 19:41:47 ivan4th: Yeah, I believe it's Etch 19:43:00 <_3b> lichtblau: ok, i won't worry about releasing in-progress bits of the new code for now then 19:43:14 jaykub [n=jaykub@ip68-97-197-157.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:41 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:12 beach: hey! sorry I missed you earlier. 19:44:15 *_3b* wonders how hard it would be to get commonqt running on arm 19:44:30 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:45:08 ahh I've found out what was wrong. So maybe a bit stiupid question, but Is there any way to ignore this control stack error and continue program ? something like go back and dont call this "bad function" ? I know there is no something like that in other languages, but maybe Lisp's different :D 19:46:06 MrSpec, what kind of error do you want to ignore? You can try using IGNORE-ERRORS -- at your own risks. 19:46:10 MrSpec: I bet you could redefun your func right there. 19:46:18 Make it empty or something. 19:46:42 newlisper: Redefine your function, without the call, then either invoke Slime's RETRY restart if there, or restart from a frame that's restartable 19:47:16 I think that was supposed to go to MrSpec 19:47:18 Fare, stack error 19:47:24 It was, but it was good for me, too. :) 19:47:44 hey, hm -- is slot-access thread-safe in SBCL? .. i've been using a lock for some of the slot-value-using-class and (setf slot-value-using-class) methods here, but maybe it is not needed? 19:48:17 hmm while writing answer I've got new ideam I'll try to put it in program ;) 19:48:55 lnostdal: you're responsible for protecting your own shared data. If your svuc method manipulates a hash table, you get to lock it 19:48:59 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:59 lichtblau: btw, concerning CommonQt: I wonder why QApplication doesn't print its non-main thread warning when running stuff from SLIME REPL (:spawn communication style) without my event loop integration stuff... 19:49:13 I believe that the standard slot access methods are threadsafe, but I could be wrong: please test 19:49:43 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 19:49:48 what if one thread uses change-class while the other thread tries to access slots? 19:50:06 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 19:50:08 (and a third thread is redefining methods) 19:50:50 is that a question that you are asking because you think it's relevant or a question that you're asking because you know the answer and want me to give a long lecture about the practicalities of implementing stuff for free for ungrateful companies based in Cambridge, Mass? 19:51:10 more likely the second 19:51:13 i'm ignoring change-class and changing of methods and stuff for now 19:51:14 I thought so 19:51:27 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-98-194-108-33.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:50 just wondering about that particular detail; the act of setting and getting "some slot value" 19:51:58 -!- elderK [n=zk@122-57-255-204.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #lisp 19:52:04 but seriously, what kind of semantics should such things have in a better object system? 19:52:15 (not talking about SBCL right now) 19:52:24 ejs [n=eugen@84-164-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:37 lnostdal: nikodemus did a fair amount of work on atomicity and threadsafety of the various built-in cache lookups and updates in sbcl's CLOS 19:52:50 I can't guarantee anthing, obviously, but there's at least a chance that it works 19:53:05 (to balance my previous irritation: I believe that that work was at least partially funded by ITA :) 19:53:23 I'm thinking about making such changes transactional or some such 19:53:35 ok, thanks Krystof .. i'll keep the locks for now and do some testing later 19:54:40 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]"] 19:55:23 doing transactions in MP setting over several not necessarily connected places looks tricky 19:55:45 Fare: I don't really see what is transacted. If thread (a) is currently executing a method which accesses an instance of class (c), any attempt at all, transactional or not, to change (c) or any of its superclasses dooms thread (a) instantly 19:56:37 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:19 I vaguely wondered about thread-local class "contexts" (in the Costanza sense) which get propagated to other threads at safepoints 19:57:22 unless every method invocation somehow locks the whole relevant class hierarchy(ies) and the generic function 19:57:39 but there need be no safepoint in thread (a) at all, ever 19:57:46 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:57:49 so, in a hypothetical long-running system, any defmethod or MOP modification requires stopping the world for anything using objects of considered class? 19:57:56 (which still doesn't really buy you any safety in a complex protocol) 19:58:29 not just stopping the world but stopping the world at known-safe points, which may not in fact exist 19:58:46 or you could do like erlang 19:58:59 -!- mulander [n=user@nat-4.interq.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:59:05 safe points may exist, but the user gets to define where they are 19:59:06 Fare: not necessarily, see erlang 19:59:08 let's assume the user can declare safepoints wrt to some hierarchy of "semantic levels". 19:59:25 the redefinition point of an object occurs separately for each instance of the object 19:59:36 fe[nl]ix, well, in Erlang, any redefinition is local to the process -- i.e. single-threaded indeed. 20:00:00 then again, objects only communicate with RPC, which makes that easier. :) 20:00:07 that may well be the only sane approach 20:00:11 -!- p_l [i=plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-d038a261ffe13648] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:00:18 copy-and-forget, sort of 20:00:49 I liked how Rich Hickey described the various models he had for managing state in a concurrent environment. 20:01:26 I suppose the same applies to any meta-level state. 20:01:36 linkp? 20:02:17 google clojure var atom ref agent 20:02:35 thanks! 20:02:43 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A06E2.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:03:16 agz [n=mate@225-36.adsl.etel.hu] has joined #lisp 20:03:47 *Fare* finds that clojure has such things as add-watch on such state cells 20:06:31 benny [n=benny@i577A188E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:07:29 that's a good thing? 20:07:34 -!- Beket [n=stathis@adsl-253-212.diodos.auth.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:08:01 Beket [n=stathis@adsl-253-212.diodos.auth.gr] has joined #lisp 20:09:15 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 20:09:38 -!- Beket [n=stathis@adsl-253-212.diodos.auth.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:10:11 ooh, refs are cool 20:10:46 look implementable in CL, too, given a defined memory model 20:10:56 knobo [n=user@148.122.202.247] has joined #lisp 20:17:02 Beket [n=stathis@adsl-253-212.diodos.auth.gr] has joined #lisp 20:18:23 this thread stuff, combined with db stuff, combined with UIs .. it's really totally "unsolved", isn't it? .. heh :) 20:19:23 ..everybody seem to struggle with it .. MS came out with some sort of "MVC support" for their ASP.NET recently i think 20:20:25 I like what Erlang did with it. 20:20:46 Something a lot of folks overlook in the Erlang model is that you get all your messages in one pipe, including the "process is dead" message. 20:21:15 Looks like someone implemented a pretty decent Lisp replica of that threading/actor model. 20:21:23 hm, erlang uses one-way pipes, right? 20:21:40 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 20:21:58 ..i should look it up myself.. 20:22:13 I can't remember how it is... just that it wasn't anything to worry about. 20:22:32 Before I took a second look at lisp, I was a huge erlang fan, purely for the concurrency. 20:22:39 (okay... and the simplicity) 20:22:52 what are these fantastically complex systems people are building that people need all this crap, anyway? I feel so out of touch. 20:22:59 (and if the answer is "Twitter", I'll fall over laughing) 20:23:05 Twit...er... 20:23:13 blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:44 Well yeah, erlang's lauded web server is much faster than apache, from what I saw of the stats. 20:23:44 hefner: airline middleware systems 20:24:05 -!- Beket [n=stathis@adsl-253-212.diodos.auth.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:24:05 does sbcl support constant folding? I just compiled (1+ (1+ n)) with optimization at maximum and it results in two separate add instructions. 20:25:05 gonzojive: why would you use an f2cl'ed up version when the real deal works very well and interacts usefully with your BLAS? 20:25:43 drewc: that url wasn't found 20:26:38 pkhuong: the only reason is that lisp-only code is easier to install 20:27:06 Krystof: ah yes, of course. makes you wonder how they got by using mainframes for 40 years. 20:27:14 azathoth99 [n=gavin@208.179.135.122] has joined #lisp 20:27:29 madnificent: http://common-lisp.net/project/lisp-on-lines/repo/relational-objects-for-lisp/ 20:27:32 blitz_: not that sort of constant folding no (yet, anyway...). (+ (+ 1 1) n) will be folded usefully, for example. 20:28:01 (defun foo (n) (declare (type fixnum n) (optimize speed)) (1+ (1+ n))) 20:28:04 what would lisp do if you asked it to do an operation on say 1 million files? would ir barf liek bash or do them in some lower number at atime? 20:28:05 That kinda did the trick for me. 20:28:56 -!- rootzlevel [n=hpd@91-66-191-98-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 20:29:14 drewc: thanks, I'll try it tonight or tomorrow :) (a question, as I can't wait. Does ROFL create the needed tables in postgres by itself?) 20:29:24 -!- dialtone_ is now known as dialtone 20:29:26 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:29:36 dkcl` [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 20:29:37 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D9AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:29:39 azathoth99: it would do what you tell it to do 20:29:40 <_death> azathoth99: try it and tell us 20:30:20 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 20:32:47 azathoth99: It's not bash that barfs. There's a limit on how many arguments you can pass to a process. 20:33:13 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:01 blitz_: ok. It's 6 LOC. Now, can you show that it's useful in the real world? 20:36:09 <_death> pkhuong: I suppose it could be useful in generated code 20:36:17 it'll trick people to believe sbcl is capable of more optimizations than it is, which will convince management to invest in it. 20:36:30 milanj [n=milan@79.101.138.41] has joined #lisp 20:37:20 madnificent: no, it doesn't create anything in the database. It would be trivial to do so, however my object models usually differ from the schema enough that i've never had the real need. 20:37:28 39 files changed, 448 insertions(+), 454 deletions(-) 20:37:40 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:37:49 slow but not completely stopped progress 20:37:53 drewc: do you have a system by which you create them? or do you do it by using sql statements? 20:37:55 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:38:29 -!- kleppari_ [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 20:38:44 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:39:07 Hi, I have a problem with smile(?) - slime-macroexpand-1 show me the symbol where the cursor is and not the output of the macro.. I checked out older slime versions but the problem is the same .. I completely clueless, someone could help? 20:39:38 agz: do slime-macroexpand-1 on the latest paren of the expression 20:39:42 <_death> did you evaluate the macro definition? 20:40:03 madnificent: i do it in raw sql.. i usually design the database before i start coding, and then generate some base classes from the database itself. The i add the details (forward and back-references, joins etc) to a subclass of the generated classes. 20:40:03 <_death> erm, yeah that's more likely to be the issue 20:40:44 _death: yes.. the macros are working C-c etc.. I just can't watch them 20:41:12 _death: It started when I checkedout the latest slime 20:41:20 madnificent: then as i'm developing i tend to keep an 'updates.sql' sitting around, and i tag the source tree with a version number when i commit changes to it. 20:41:27 ; compiling file "/home/csr21/sbcl-git/src/code/numbers.lisp" (written 28 MAR 2009 09:00:09 PM): 20:41:27 *** - No more room for LISP objects 20:41:27 GAH 20:41:50 drewc: there is a project that is the equivalent of migrations for lisp, you may find it a handy way to keep the database in sync 20:42:06 madnificent: is there now? linky? 20:42:08 drewc: http://www.cliki.net/cl-migrations 20:44:10 -!- ken` [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:44:14 drewc: it would be nice if ROFL could recognize the connections between objects by the name of the table (rails uses post_id to reference a post-item and posts_users for an n->m mapping from/to posts to/from users) (you may have it, nvm then) 20:48:37 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:50:31 - LEA #, DWORD PTR [EBP-32] 20:50:31 -L12: 20:50:31 + LEA #, DWORD PTR [EBP-32] 20:50:31 +L14: 20:50:38 madnificent: i don't really like such magic, i prefer the explicit approach. I rarely want every relationship an object has expressed as slots of that object.. i prefer to write FIND-FOO(S) methods, which also avoids keeping possibly out-of-sync lists of objects around. ROFL is a super lightweight approach to o/r. 20:50:50 pkhuong: tn numbering being host-specific? 20:50:57 antgreen [n=green@12.187.233.225] has joined #lisp 20:51:56 madnificent: in the past i used class-generators that connected to the DB at compile time and generated all the classes and all the relationships from the system tables. 20:52:17 because i think an o/r mapping should not force naming coventions on you. 20:52:34 drewc: oh wait, so the relationships are found from the database? (or are the system tables something different?{ 20:52:51 madnificent: yeah, that's how it was done. 20:53:03 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:53:14 p_l [i=plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-5dce7583c6453388] has joined #lisp 20:53:38 oh, like that... well yes and no. I do like the sensible defaults approach. But yes, it would need to be overridable... Defaults could allow for an easier to change approach (but this is more than I assumed it would be, so its super) 20:54:37 -!- dkcl` is now known as dkcl 20:56:01 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 20:56:14 -!- agz [n=mate@225-36.adsl.etel.hu] has left #lisp 20:56:15 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 20:57:01 Rounin [n=david@rounin.409.no] has joined #lisp 20:57:16 newlisper: compiling your FOO gives me an INC (for the first increment) and a LEA for the second 20:58:04 pkhuong: I am just trying to see how clever my compiler should be when targeting CL as backend language ;) 20:59:44 madnificent: all these magic features would be quite trivial to add, so if you find that you really want something, i can help you throw it together. 21:01:01 drewc: You had to choose a name that was difficult to google. 21:01:02 Krystof pasted "traces" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77837 21:01:29 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a66519@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-875e742b7c431fc2] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:01:30 bah, where are all my sbcl foils? 21:01:40 blitz_: How many cycles compared to the two add calls? 21:01:54 danie2 [n=ratiu@p549758BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:20 -!- danie2 [n=ratiu@p549758BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 21:02:26 drewc: thanks, my lisp OO wizkidpowerzors are rather low. But I will contribute to it if I can and feel the need for something. 21:03:21 Hello! I have a list of 0's and 1's that I want to read the first number from and append numbers to, but I keep getting error messages that it expects an argument of type ; given 0... Is it impossible to have lists with only one element? 21:04:01 Rounin: it may be easier if you paste your code on pastie 21:04:41 Thanks madnificent, I'll have to try to extract the relevant bits, but then again, perhaps that'll make it easier to see the error as well 21:05:58 <_3b> Rounin: are you using common lisp? 21:06:17 No, PLT-Scheme 21:06:19 how can I make :test in pushnew to push only not null atoms ? I'm trying :test (lambda (x) (not (null x))) but it is not working . 21:06:28 <_3b> #scheme probably knows more about scheme :) 21:07:03 Yes, well, I'm sure common lisp has pairs and lists 21:07:13 -!- ivan4th [n=ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 21:07:14 But I'll consider trying there too 21:07:26 <_3b> CL calls them conses, but yes 21:07:29 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:46 newlisper: In my application there could be quite long sequences of this kind. but I guess it is better to do constant folding myself 21:07:48 Rounin: oh, this is only common lisp actually :) Don't know if you'll have much success 21:07:54 <_3b> a single element list is (element . nil) 21:08:37 blitz_: Or maybe redefine 1+ as a macro? 21:08:39 <_3b> which can be created with (cons 'element nil) or (list 'element) 21:08:49 blitz_: I know, I'm coming up with workarounds. You're right. 21:08:50 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:11:31 -!- ejs [n=eugen@84-164-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:11:45 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:11:59 lukego [n=lukegorr@222-152-10-31.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:12:14 I haven't seen much in the way of ILC trip reports. thumbs up or thumbs down? 21:12:24 this habit people have of calling discussion media for common lisp 'lisp' is clearly a problem :) 21:12:38 lukego: there were some enthusiastic blog posts 21:12:55 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:13:08 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.35.73] has joined #lisp 21:13:22 <_3b> well, arguably CL has a more direct lineage from LISP than most of the alternatives 21:14:11 I live in a world of fear as a linux admin 21:14:28 azathoth99: ?? 21:14:36 <_3b> azathoth99: so switch to being a lisp machine admin? 21:14:39 rpg [n=rpg@97-127-65-215.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:20 azathoth99: you could build us a new lisp OS... I'd be interested in running it (perhaps in a vm, perhaps on real hardware). 21:15:29 movitz, sbclos 21:16:14 one could try forcing OSKit to build and link SBCL to it... 21:16:40 lukego, I found it mostly somewhat disappointing, although I'm too hungry right now to elaborate. 21:16:58 lukego: you weren't there to ask questions! 21:17:12 im on it 21:17:24 I bet it would involve less pain 21:17:38 azathoth99: you sure? Lusers always find a way 21:17:39 lisp gui would be interesting as hek 21:18:11 minix+clisp! 21:18:18 also, during my last time playing with Genera, I found that it's X11 client was buggy :/ 21:18:27 azathoth99: for the ultimately undesirable licensing situation! 21:18:31 heh 21:18:32 (like Java's X11 library, too) 21:18:36 p_l: well, probably quite old 21:18:47 forth+lisp 21:18:55 ;( 21:18:57 though clx is pretty stable 21:19:03 Haha, I don't think you'd have had problems understanding the error in my Scheme code though... I appended the primitive numbers 1 and 0 to my list instead of appending the lists '(1) and '(0) 21:19:14 doesn't genera have some form of cl these days? 21:19:15 rsynnott: it's not about being old, it's about having bugs in handling cases where you don't have control over your window 21:19:18 Ye goode olde PEBKAC 21:19:26 why no big website in lisp? 21:19:28 rsynnott: it has full ANSI CL afaik 21:19:53 rsynnott: everything is fine till you run a non-reparenting, tiling window manager >_> 21:20:01 azathoth99: look at the amount of frameworks there are... perhaps lisp is too flexible 21:20:07 be awesome to have a lisp program that would calucalte resources of a cluster and auto adject to load and demands 21:21:21 azathoth99: first get a non-braindamaged cluster os? :D 21:21:47 hmm where do I find that? 21:22:16 azathoth99: fast-forward 15 years and see if dragonflybsd still exists 21:22:16 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:36 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit ["leaving"] 21:22:41 azathoth99: I dunno, both UNICOS and VMS have their share of problems, Tru64 got scrapped and I have yet to see dragonflybsd booting without hard crash in boot process 21:22:51 MOSIX looks dead too 21:22:52 heh 21:22:58 openmosix changed its name 21:23:01 p_l: I've ran it for some time... (about half a year) 21:23:04 Idid the logo 21:23:07 1 woman dev 21:23:10 brave lass 21:23:22 new name was linuxpmi or something 21:23:25 madnificent: I tried last stable (2.0), can't get it to boot 21:24:18 linuxpmi.org might be down...bugger 21:24:22 maybe it will work better on real hw 21:24:40 maybe erlang os 21:24:42 p_l: mine was pre-stable, which is strange to say the least. You may need to check-out again, their repository (used to be or is) the development branch (lack of resources) 21:24:42 ;) 21:25:03 all we ned are lisp functions implementing a basic forth intpreter 21:25:07 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@222-152-10-31.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:25:08 belwo lisp 21:25:13 azul's thing does decent cluster stuff, doesn't it? 21:25:15 and then gui n all that can be built1 21:25:18 of course, it's rather java centric 21:25:27 or lets just strap together something that can do L4 calls and strap it to L4 kernel... 21:25:36 oow straps 21:25:41 strapons 21:25:47 and add migration support... 21:26:20 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-14.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 21:26:32 lukego [n=lukegorr@219-89-244-29.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:26:51 -!- Rounin [n=david@rounin.409.no] has left #lisp 21:27:17 building OSKit is non-trivial. I tried recently and it needed an older version of gcc than I had, and newer gcc's can't compile older gcc's. ugh :) 21:27:33 -!- yipstar [n=user@cpe-74-64-96-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:27:46 because gcc 3.x removed an extension of C that both oskit and gcc-2.95 were using, so it couldn't compile either 21:28:21 christophe would have thwapped them 21:28:26 lukego, I think ILC'09 was rather good as a networking event. 21:28:26 azathoth99: I'd name all my cluster nodes with female names then :3 21:28:46 lukego, there were good things in the contents, too 21:29:12 *rsynnott* recalls gcc 2.96 with loathing 21:29:46 Krystof: Fairly certain TN numbers are (originally) fully determined by the control flow graph. There might be some weird leakage during copy prop? 21:30:00 See http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23ilc2009 21:30:03 (that was the weird redhat one that turned up in the interregum before gcc releases resumed as a combined GCC-EGCS thing) 21:30:41 rsynnott: oh yeah. It was 2.95 or no support for certain arches for them, though 21:31:27 *2.96 21:31:39 pkhuong: I know almost nothing about this bit of the compiler 21:31:42 any hints are welcome 21:31:50 yep, but it never quite went away afterwards 21:32:26 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 21:32:28 *rsynnott* worked on a commercial app which could only be compiled with 2.96 at a summer job during college 21:32:34 if the TN numbers are different, we can eliminate pack.lisp. 21:32:53 c++ incompatibilities 21:33:12 as bad as 2.96 was...at least it wasn't 2.95 21:33:14 free software 21:33:14 pkhuong: another hint: the label numbers are also different 21:34:12 ah, the days when C++ written for one compiler would absolutely not work on any other 21:35:02 rsynnott: did they pass? Where I can get those new compilers? 21:35:31 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@219-89-244-29.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:35:45 p_l: it's better than it used to be 21:35:49 that I heard 21:36:07 lukego: Could you have updated the OSKit instead to borax the bitrot? 21:36:20 ok i got clisp installed 21:36:24 Krystof: do you have the complete trace for that function? 21:36:26 *rsynnott* worked on a codebase that actually compiled on recent VC++, proper gcc and the weird gccs used by the console manufacturers 21:36:34 is lisp ok for moving around and sorting files on a unix system? 21:36:50 I found this link for using lisp as a shell 21:36:51 depends on how you feel about pathnames :) 21:36:53 what a trip 21:37:06 I feel pretty good about em I guess 21:37:19 pkhuong: I have trace files from both hosts, yes 21:37:48 the good news is that the e.x+e.x-7 pattern appears precisely once :-) 21:39:16 is using lisp really fun? 21:40:01 the function in question is negate-bignum, I'm fairly sure 21:40:06 hold on 21:40:18 -!- knobo [n=user@148.122.202.247] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:42:52 oh, the bad news is that the clisp trace file has some useful information replaced by # 21:43:12 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:43:36 azathoth99: a matter of taste, no doubt 21:44:11 pkhuong: http://doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/tmp/sbcl-negate-bignum.trace and http://doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/tmp/clisp-negate-bignum.trace 21:44:54 lukego [n=lukegorr@222-152-97-230.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:46:28 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:48:24 Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:35 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-176-191.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 21:50:22 Looks like the DFO isn't the same? 21:51:08 cads [n=max@adsl-154-105-103.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:40 I have to take your word on that 21:53:44 auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-24.residence.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 21:53:51 or at least ask for explanation 21:54:38 is it the label numbers? 21:55:15 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-24.residence.usherb.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 21:55:26 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 21:56:07 No, never mind. The successors are all the same ;\ 21:56:43 azathoth99, if all your files have valid ASCII or UTF-8 names, you can do things fine with SBCL. 21:57:29 josemanuel [n=josemanu@14.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:58:09 <_3b> is it catching differences in the host's macros? 21:58:36 pkhuong: yeah, diff -uw is at least not utterly unhelpful 21:59:59 lukego_ [n=lukegorr@222-152-97-230.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:59:59 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@222-152-97-230.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:00:35 where's the kernel patch to forbid invalidly encoded filenames? :) 22:00:59 Krystof: can you force clisp's pprinter to go as deep as SBCL? 22:01:16 let me try 22:01:30 I'll see if I can strike the balance between useless printing and heap exhaustion 22:02:17 -!- antgreen [n=green@12.187.233.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:02:42 Krystof: Label IDs are assigned when printed (: 22:02:55 -!- newlisper [n=wschroed@128.252.233.244] has left #lisp 22:03:48 argh 22:03:55 argh argh you have to be joking 22:03:59 no. 22:04:18 and the answer is no, I can't: I get what looks like clisp's version of heap exhaustion 22:04:26 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.35.73] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:04:44 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@14.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 22:05:25 which is even worse behaved than sbcl's 22:05:36 (def!struct (label ... (:constructor %gen-label)) ...) (defun gen-label () (let ((label (%gen-label))) (sb!c:label-id label) label)) ? 22:06:24 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:06:32 -!- KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:07:01 ok, well, in that case we can not worry about the label IDs... tell me that TN numbers aren't the same...? 22:07:29 same deal. 22:08:10 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-111-161.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:08:36 nice 22:12:52 *Krystof* throws his hands up in the air 22:14:50 Beket [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:15:17 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:32 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:17:03 presumably that is sensible if most such things aren't printed -- allocate unique ids for the humans only 22:17:38 kpreid: right, but it makes diffing traces hard. 22:19:32 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:19:50 particularly traces generated from implementations with excitingly broken pretty printers 22:20:12 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:52 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 22:24:15 Phoodus [n=foo@wsip-24-234-246-213.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:27 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:24:27 if only you had a portably deterministic pretty printer and tracer 22:26:33 make the sbcl prettyprinter cross-loadable? 22:27:27 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:27:51 oudeis [n=oudeis@217.194.205.196] has joined #lisp 22:28:13 Krystof: meta-vmdef.lisp:674 (in compute-ref-ordering). The call to SORT is suspect. 22:28:27 _death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 22:29:29 I can try a stable-sort 22:30:27 it's definitely in the right area for this ecx/edx case 22:30:39 it's supposed to take a total order, no? 22:31:12 ``Erik__ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:23 threepeat [n=mail@156.12.68.126] has joined #lisp 22:31:28 hello nigger fuckers :) 22:31:34 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 22:31:39 -!- Krystof has set mode +b *!*n=mail@156.12.68.* 22:31:50 -!- threepeat [n=mail@156.12.68.126] has left #lisp 22:32:27 sort is only deterministic given a total order; stable-sort is I think deterministic given a consistent partial order 22:33:03 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:33:22 The predicate seems fine, in any case. 22:33:35 Krystof: are you sure about that? 22:33:46 no. What am I missing? 22:34:05 The paragraph I'm thinking of is the one beginning "The sorting operation performed by sort is not guaranteed stable" 22:34:36 I would guess that if stable-sort was given a partial order like so: A the difference between a partial order and a total-order-with-some-items-equal 22:35:47 the predicate must define all pairwise relationships 22:36:01 it must return either true or false on any pairwise comparison 22:36:08 then it can't be a partial order... 22:36:35 and be anti-reflexive and and anti-symetric? 22:36:47 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCB4E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 22:36:56 wait, stop confusing me with technical terms 22:37:02 I agree with kpreid, I think 22:37:21 anyway, not an issue *here*, I don't think. 22:37:33 gmlk [n=gmlk@alicia.demon.nl] has joined #lisp 22:37:41 -!- ``Erik [n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org] has quit ["leaving"] 22:37:54 -!- ``Erik__ is now known as ``Erik 22:38:08 you're all right, the issue is what happens with equality in total orders 22:38:17 partial orders don't enter into the discussion at all 22:39:03 "I'm a PhD, not a mathematician." No, wait, I _am_ a mathematician. Damn 22:39:15 stupid discrete maths 22:40:11 what use is the name of a component? It gets dumped into fasl files, but why? 22:40:18 debug. 22:40:36 *rsynnott* is disappointed at the rarity of the phrase "discreet maths" on google 22:40:50 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:41:27 did you try spelling it right? :) 22:41:34 Im a BA 22:41:36 ;) 22:41:48 i got to partial integrals 22:41:55 I've often wanted to teach a course on computer security, partly so that I can make rsynnott's joke 22:41:58 not even matrixes 22:42:11 whats the joke? I love jokes? 22:42:32 I was hoping it would be a common mistake, as that would be hilarious 22:42:59 azathoth99: discrete maths is not discreet maths. 22:43:01 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 22:43:24 ka 22:43:31 Ow sorry. Wrong channel. 22:45:09 yuk yuk 22:45:35 rsynnott: I saw that mistake just today actually 22:47:11 pkhuong: ok, down to 8 files. Trying the stable-sort thing next 22:47:45 rsynnott: also, more hits for "discreet math" than "discreet maths" 22:47:52 "My boyfriend loves maths, he takes this class at uni called 'Discreet Maths' its not actually maths, its like, the theory of maths :s" 22:47:57 one of the first hits 22:48:11 oh, I forgot that it lacks an s in American, yep :) 22:49:34 heheh: http://discreetmath.blogspot.com/2007/07/continuous-and-discrete.html 22:51:19 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:54:20 How well do you guys see a "notebook" interface (like, say, Mathematica) to program in lisp? 22:54:45 -!- frank_s_ [n=frank@41.145.42.12] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:55:28 -!- rpg [n=rpg@97-127-65-215.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Success] 22:56:07 repl's sort of a step in that direction anyway, I suppose 22:56:26 so hey anyone critique SBCL v clisp v CMUCL ? 22:57:49 clisp is slow and has a scary license situation, sbcl says charming things on startup on windows, but doesn't actually really work on windows, and cmucl has been more or less abandoned by all 22:57:53 there you go :) 22:59:12 azathoth99: rsynnott will try to convert you to a FORTRAN 77 user. 22:59:44 woa 23:00:15 (obviously, highly reasoned critique is not to be taken seriously) 23:00:22 Quadrescence: nonsense; 66 all the way :) 23:01:05 scary license... 23:01:18 cmucl abandoned doh 23:02:10 azathoth99: http://www.gnu.org/software/clisp/impnotes/faq.html#faq-licensing 23:02:33 Doesn't SBCL work on windows in non-threaded mode? 23:02:34 that bit can be read in many ways, but it's ambigous enough that I'm cautious 23:02:40 foom: yep, but inreliably 23:02:49 *unreliably 23:02:58 oh, I've never tried but I thought it was reliable w/o threads and unreliable with threads. 23:03:07 don't think it has threads at all 23:03:27 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:03:29 I can't remember the reason, precisely, but there are apparently funny memory things that can happen 23:03:45 (you can sometimes see this by allocating lots of memory and doing stuff with it) 23:03:49 CMUCL isn't abandoned, it has just achieved perfection 23:03:57 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has joined #lisp 23:03:57 it then crashes 23:04:03 rsynnott: sounds like SBCL on unix =p 23:04:46 so do lisp programs take advantage of multiple cpus? 23:04:48 or no 23:04:55 hefner: sbcl on unix rarely crashes unless intolerably provoked :) 23:05:12 <_3b> azathoth99: do C programs? 23:05:15 azathoth99: sbcl and clozure at least use OS threads, so can 23:05:25 azathoth99: I've had some success using SBCL to split computations across my four cores 23:05:26 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:05:27 if they 'fork' or 'thread' apparently 23:05:47 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless92.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:05:58 <_3b> azathoth99: you forgot run multiple copies... all those apply to lisp too, depending on implementation 23:06:00 clisp has no os threads, but sbcl does eh 23:06:12 hm 23:06:18 seems a win for sbcl 23:07:30 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-55-237.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 23:07:35 (I think scl does as well) 23:07:41 <_3b> sbcl or ccl would be my first choices 23:08:07 ccl seems to be more reliable on windows and macos 23:08:10 <_3b> but testing on others is good unless you have a specific reason your code won't work there 23:08:21 I generally use sbcl though, as I'm more used to it 23:09:34 what kinds of apps did you build? 23:09:45 webapps, generally 23:10:09 though I am playing with gui stuff of late 23:10:25 MrSpec_ [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 23:11:27 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:11:58 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:12:05 what book did you learn lisp from? 23:12:19 erm, PCL mostly, I think 23:14:18 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-98-194-108-33.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:15:27 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:15:29 it has the great advantage of being free 23:15:40 (or at least this was a great advantage when I was a student) 23:17:41 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:18:00 jaykub_ [n=jaykub@ip68-97-197-157.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:11 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:39 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 23:21:16 -!- MrSpec_ [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["BB"] 23:22:06 -!- jaykub [n=jaykub@ip68-97-197-157.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:22:20 -!- jaykub_ is now known as jaykub 23:24:49 drafael [n=tapio@130.216.92.30] has joined #lisp 23:26:57 -!- drafael [n=tapio@130.216.92.30] has quit [Client Quit] 23:28:18 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:28:23 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:02 jfactor [n=jfactor@student167-115.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 23:36:07 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:36:26 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:36:51 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:39:27 inforichland [n=inforich@96-42-29-58.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:28 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 23:42:36 lukego [n=lukegorr@222-152-12-101.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:44:18 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.35.73] has joined #lisp 23:47:18 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-68-239-77-4.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:11 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 23:49:29 <_3b> is there an all-cl png reading lib? 23:50:29 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:42 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:52:25 blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:56 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 23:52:57 <_3b> looks like closure might have one, guess i can try that... 23:54:54 -!- lukego_ [n=lukegorr@222-152-97-230.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:55:48 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:56:06 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:58:15 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:25 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-253-30.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 23:59:25 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@222-152-12-101.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:26 -!- cads [n=max@adsl-154-105-103.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:59:36 lukego [n=lukegorr@222-152-12-101.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:59:53 -!- lukego [n=lukegorr@222-152-12-101.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit]