00:00:04 -!- ajcc [n=adrian@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has quit ["ping pong poff"] 00:00:47 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:25 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:02:17 wow some young people are getting PAID by making these bloggin sites 00:03:20 kpreid_ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:20 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:04:50 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:05:27 crink [n=crink@210.110.159.199] has joined #lisp 00:05:46 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.198.192] has joined #lisp 00:08:38 Darn kids! Get off my lawn! 00:10:00 dunkyp [n=dunkyp@94-192-91-134.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:10:00 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:10:26 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:34 LaGaVuLiN [n=lagavuli@bl4-153-75.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 00:11:55 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@123.112.18.190] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 00:12:05 hello 00:12:15 hi 00:13:38 hello 00:13:57 hey 00:14:30 drewc: were you at ILC? 00:16:19 gigamonkey: nah, i didn't make it. 00:16:35 *drewc* has to go do a glue up, biab 00:16:41 Woodworking? 00:16:56 *gigamonkey* hands drewc a clamp. 00:17:23 clamp, good name for a CL project 00:17:31 minion: clamp? 00:17:31 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``clamp''. 00:17:38 Surely that must have been used. 00:17:49 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:19:06 *stassats* matches "^cl" in the dictionary 00:19:23 -!- LaGaVuLiN [n=lagavuli@bl4-153-75.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [] 00:19:54 *gigamonkey* wonders if stassats used CL or ... Perl 00:20:15 clothier sounds a little bit like "closure" 00:20:21 gigamonkey: C, in fact 00:20:40 dict -s regexp -m "^cl" 00:20:45 As in grep is written in C or you ... right. 00:21:35 so, who's gonna make a lisp called clogure? 00:21:58 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:23:10 clocure is also still available. :) 00:23:18 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:22 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has quit [] 00:23:48 cloaca? 00:24:04 classconsciousness? 00:24:20 sounds not good... 00:24:47 *stassats* read cl apart from the rest 00:24:59 But you'd have a great logo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DefecatingSeagull.jpg 00:25:32 That's actually quite a good picture, other than the subject matter. 00:25:37 yeah, that's a really nice picture! 00:25:48 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@80.250.159.240] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:25:58 See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloaca for the caption which makes it apropos. 00:27:16 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 00:30:50 -!- jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:31:37 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:33:59 bughunter2 [n=j@ip4da4427e.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 00:36:12 gigamonkey: have you tried http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-prevalence/ ? a la www.prevayler.org ? 00:36:53 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 00:39:44 the_unmaker: nope 00:40:16 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:40:16 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:40:51 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:11 prevayler seems killer, but I have heard java is horrendus 00:43:16 so i never learned wither 00:43:25 thanks for the ncie book by the wya 00:43:27 way- 00:43:28 :) 00:43:36 gigamonkey++ 00:43:50 oudeis [n=oudeis@79.183.118.182] has joined #lisp 00:43:55 do you use lisp for any web stuff? 00:46:28 hey I was wondering how I would go about parsing a tab delimited file. I can read it into a list of lines but from there on in I'm a bit stumped :P sorry if this is the wrong channel 00:46:40 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BF43.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:46:52 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:21 something liek do that then a conditional to build new list from eahc element of odl unless it equals the 00:47:21 | 00:47:29 Im theorizing of course 00:47:46 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:48:12 ok cool I'll give it a try thanks 00:48:21 the_unmaker: you're welcome. 00:48:53 dunkyp: if you really just want to split on tabs look up split-sequence (the library) 00:48:56 minion: split-sequence 00:48:57 split-sequence: SPLIT-SEQUENCE (formerly known as PARTITION) is a member of the Common Lisp Utilities family of programs, designed by community consensus. http://www.cliki.net/split-sequence 00:49:10 If you have something more complicated look up CL-PPCRE 00:49:13 minion: cl-ppcre 00:49:14 cl-ppcre: CL-PPCRE is a portable, Perl-compatible regular expression library by Edi Weitz. http://www.cliki.net/cl-ppcre 00:49:23 I was going to use that but my files have comments at the top so I was going to go with cl-ppcre 00:49:43 thanks a lot 00:50:51 I am curious about something like prevayler, but something keeping blobs on disk, and when the biz rules say serve a movie or what ahve you then the in memory program running lightning fast simply directs the os to start the transfer and the os io system covers it 00:51:14 so the bz rules and data stay in ram and are very fast stiff 00:51:16 still 00:51:48 does split-sequence come with clisp? 00:51:57 or is it an importable package of cuntions eetc. 00:52:01 functions 00:52:53 Probably separate. It's a portable library. 00:53:19 It's possible the CLISP folks decided for some reason to package it with their implementation. 00:53:26 is scheme a subset of common-lisp like c is of c++ ? 00:53:48 no. 00:53:58 oh ok 00:55:09 schoppen1auer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 00:55:55 does lisp come with good tools that interface with web and os things like sockets dns and stuff 00:56:08 and files 00:56:25 -!- kpreid_ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:56:31 somehow I have a notion that python or perl have more 'work with the os' tools 00:56:36 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:42 does this hamper lisp use? or is everything pretty attainable 00:57:54 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-14.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:02:04 gigamonkey: you there? 01:02:35 benny` [n=benny@i577A0F6E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:03:46 -!- metawilm [n=willem@e179145072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 01:06:59 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:09:57 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0C54.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:10:00 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:10:44 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:11:00 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:27 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:11:48 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:12:51 the_unmaker: off and on. 01:13:06 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 01:13:07 These days there are good libraries for most of those things. 01:14:02 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:15 myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-81-133.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 01:15:12 tns [n=mehdi@put92-6-88-165-36-162.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:05 so would you do a startup company and use lisp as the tool? 01:16:19 without hesitation 01:16:59 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:17:42 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit [No route to host] 01:18:24 the_unmaker: for the kinds of software startups I'd be interested in doing, yes. 01:18:51 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 01:18:51 Technically, these days, that's the empty set so that's trivially true. But if I was at all interested in doing a startup, it would still be true. 01:20:49 why no startup? 01:21:00 the twitter guy jesus is getting paid I think 01:21:05 after doing blogger 01:21:15 and what is that lame stuff 01:21:26 so what you do research or ? 01:21:36 just work for big company ding lisp or something? 01:22:18 I'm working on this: http://www.codersatwork.com/ 01:24:49 looks like an interesting book I'll be sure to pick up a copy:) 01:26:00 envi^laptop [n=envi@219.241.46.188] has joined #lisp 01:27:23 (print (dotimes (i 3) (remove #'first' (file-lines "/home/dunkyp/code/logscrob/.scrobbler.log"))) could anyone tell me what's wrong with this, I want to remove the first three elements from the list 01:28:44 it prints nil 01:31:03 where is klaus westefeld and charles moore? 01:31:57 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:36 http://www.prevayler.org/old_wiki/KlausWuestefeld.html 01:32:53 http://www.colorforth.com/ 01:32:59 chuck is really interesting guy 01:33:06 and his sidekick jeff fox 01:33:18 so giga you are ft author now? 01:33:20 solved my problem hooray for rest I love lisp 01:33:36 I would love to see lisp DNS and lisp SNMP monitor that beats nagios 01:33:40 that would rokk 01:33:55 -!- the_unmaker [n=gavin@208.179.135.122] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:40:40 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-14.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 01:40:58 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:45:16 snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has joined #lisp 01:47:56 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-50-125-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:02 minion: logs 01:48:02 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 01:49:08 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:49:09 the_unmaker: These days it's full time. After this book, who knows? 01:49:32 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:49:42 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:56 gigamonk`: yeah, doing some boatbuilding. 01:50:03 *drewc* is twisted off the epoxy fumes. 01:50:30 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-50-125-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:50:34 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey 01:50:58 Oh yeah. I real, ocean going boat, right? 01:51:12 er s/I/A/ 01:54:03 gigamonkey: that's the one. 01:54:16 -!- sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has quit ["it's GOTIMES"] 01:54:21 *drewc* needs a beer after that. 01:54:33 *drewc* goes in search of beer. 01:54:49 sweemeng [n=sweemeng@80.53.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 01:54:58 I limit myself to simple furniture built out of plywood. Boat building seems complicated. 01:59:17 -!- sweemeng [n=sweemeng@80.53.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Client Quit] 01:59:19 -!- tns [n=mehdi@put92-6-88-165-36-162.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:59:23 jlf` [n=user@68.183.235.250] has joined #lisp 01:59:24 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@79.183.118.182] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:00:20 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-118-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:43 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:49 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@c-68-84-2-127.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:02:48 -!- schoppen1auer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:02:53 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.198.192] has quit [Client Quit] 02:10:23 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@84.44.169.14] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:11:29 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-84-44-168-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:16:39 -!- sellout 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[n=alex@ppp-70-253-65-66.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:26 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:51:04 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-84-44-168-250.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 02:51:46 sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.78.145] has joined #lisp 02:51:51 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:54:18 -!- bombshelter13 is now known as bombshelter13_ 02:55:14 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.198.192] has quit [Client Quit] 03:00:42 -!- alexbobp [n=alex@ppp-70-253-65-66.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:01:45 -!- fgtech [i=nemesis@bnc1.shellium.org] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:01:47 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-84-44-168-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:02:58 ironsights? 03:03:00 arght 03:03:18 *ianmcorvidae* should write a curses-esque IRC client in CL to replace irssi 03:03:40 (maybe I can make it more obvious which channel is selected :P) 03:04:04 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:05 more obvious than printing it in the bar like every other IRC client? 03:04:52 I'm kidding, heh 03:05:13 just thought I should at least theme my wrong-channel blunder to the channel I blundered in :) 03:05:34 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@71.127.85.87] has quit [""Nichts mehr.""] 03:05:40 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:06:54 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:59 xuanwu_ [n=xuanwu@c-98-223-233-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:35 -!- dunkyp [n=dunkyp@94-192-91-134.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["leaving"] 03:10:22 fgtech [i=nemesis@bnc1.shellium.org] has joined #lisp 03:13:30 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:19:58 -!- phf [n=user@c-98-231-211-226.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the 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quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:54:57 -!- spradnyesh1 [n=pradyus@117.192.7.87] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:55:48 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-c448987a586ed0a7] has joined #lisp 06:00:43 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-c448987a586ed0a7] has left #lisp 06:03:32 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@24.21.76.57] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:05:33 -!- sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:05:57 kenyao [n=kenyao@119.131.10.139] has joined #lisp 06:09:34 -!- HG` [n=wells@203-109-202-78.static.ihug.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:15:13 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:13 -!- kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:18:47 Good morning. 06:34:47 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:44:19 wow. sbcl images compress REALLY well. 06:44:32 35M -> 11M 06:46:36 sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 06:46:38 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 06:47:49 appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-217.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:57:04 -!- kenyao [n=kenyao@119.131.10.139] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:57:48 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.78.145] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:01:48 sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.255.147] has joined #lisp 07:04:21 dmitry_vk [n=dvk@89.232.126.96] has joined #lisp 07:08:15 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:10:21 sbt [n=sbt@rrcs-208-125-96-78.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:14:20 sbcl goes into a sys_rt_sigtimedwait when my program consumes more than 491mb of memory. anyone know the reason for this? 07:15:10 doesn't it say that heap exhausted? 07:15:24 it just stops, like it's waiting for something 07:15:51 32-bit? 07:16:02 32-bit, ubuntu, 4gb ram 07:16:04 iluvemacs [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:16:23 you can try to increase --dynamic-space-size 07:16:35 how do I do this with slime? 07:17:13 well, add it to inferior-lisp-don't-remember-exactly 07:17:26 ok, will check. thanks 07:18:41 inferior-lisp-program, or whatever method are you using for specifying where sbcl is 07:21:04 that actuall worked. thanks! 07:22:05 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:05 trying to load a 5-gram language model into memory :) 07:22:32 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:23:38 btw, how are you accessing your 4gb on 32-bit kernel? PAE or something? 07:24:24 i guess you can access ~3.5G without PAE magic? 07:24:43 not sure, ubuntu says 2.9 are available 07:24:53 what does free say? 07:25:19 sbt: does your machine support 64-bit mode? 07:25:26 no clue 07:25:37 it's a new ibm thinkpad x200 07:26:04 core 2 duo? 07:26:07 yea 07:26:42 why not use 64-bit linux on it, to access all 4gb? 07:26:52 or PAE on 32-bit 07:27:40 I'll have to look into that, new ubuntu coming out, maybe I should try it out if it works 07:28:27 do structs use significantly less memory than class instances? 07:29:29 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:30:03 xyblor [n=nik@206-248-134-42.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 07:30:58 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 07:31:42 I don't know for sure, but I would be very surprised if they did. 07:33:17 liu [n=Aleaxand@218.64.17.227] has joined #lisp 07:33:34 -!- drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has left #lisp 07:34:06 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17F35A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:09 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:35:06 how do you get all possible sub-sequences of a list? 07:35:18 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17F35A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:35:37 xyblor: I imagine you write a function to compute those. 07:35:53 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17F35A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:54 I guess I was asking if anyone knew of one floating around 07:35:58 powerset? 07:36:34 Hi everyone, my name is Jason and I'm new to Lisp (been reading "Practical Common Lisp" and have also been messing around a little with elisp); I was wondering if anyone knows what the job market is like for CL programmers in the US? Is there much of a demand? 07:36:59 xyblor: http://www.public.asu.edu/~huanliu/AI04S/Lisp_Assignment_Solutions.html check out point 5 07:37:05 sbt: I think powerset is unordered? 07:37:19 sets are unordered yes 07:37:22 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17F35A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:37:42 iluvemacs: have a loot at: http://www.itasoftware.com/careers/index.html 07:37:50 well I want to find all the ordered sub-sequences of a list 07:37:51 s/loot/look/ 07:38:08 pjb: thanks I will check it out 07:38:15 hm 07:38:21 no clue 07:38:56 okay I guess I'll actually do the work ;-) 07:42:54 rvirding [n=rvirding@adsl-63-205-181-122.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:31 -!- sbt [n=sbt@rrcs-208-125-96-78.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 07:59:02 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:00:09 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D5B7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:37 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:05:51 -!- seamus-android [n=user@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust124.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:08:12 -!- iluvemacs is now known as total-noob 08:10:55 -!- yipstar [n=user@cpe-74-64-96-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:11:13 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:13:55 -!- liu [n=Aleaxand@218.64.17.227] has quit [] 08:16:42 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D5B7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:21:00 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:21:35 jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:03 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.76.62] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:25:43 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-96-171.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 08:25:43 trcccc [n=Thomas@adsl-99-31-25-180.dsl.okcyok.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:16 stesch [n=stesch@p57A5EB7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:43 Hi. Are there any known problems with common-lisp.net at the moment? Can't write to my mailing lists and can't reach the clo-devel mailing list via gmane. Admin address is at common-lisp.net, so it doesn't help to write there. 08:30:33 (host a.mx.common-lisp.net[208.72.159.207] said: 451 Temporary local problem - please try later (in reply to end of DATA command)) 08:30:46 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:30:53 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 08:31:07 -!- Beket [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:32:39 -!- snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has left #lisp 08:33:17 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@adsl-63-205-181-122.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 08:36:15 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-140.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:39:07 will try to fix 08:42:04 OK, thanks. 08:44:06 should be ok now. 08:46:27 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17F35A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:35 postsuper: Requeued: 2 messages 08:48:42 ... status=sent 08:48:47 OK. 08:53:16 -!- stesch [n=stesch@p57A5EB7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 08:53:18 -!- npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:55:29 I'm considering hacking at drscheme for use with cl 08:57:21 why is that? 08:58:15 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 08:58:33 beach: I think with some hacking, it can be a nice tool. 08:58:53 I love the paren highlighting. 08:59:21 But it has lots of...annoying things. 09:00:23 But then again, emacs in a terminal has a nice feel to it with slime. 09:00:55 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-130-10.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:01:13 Quadrescence: Did you check out the CLIM desktop stuff? 09:01:52 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:02:04 beach: A bit. I didn't download anything yet. CLIM looks nice, too. No idea how nice it is code-wise. 09:02:57 why not just hack emacs to get it to do what you want? 09:03:02 the other way sounds much harder 09:03:06 Quadrescence: Climacs is very close to be usable, and it has many of the features of SLIME already. 09:03:25 or even better, climacs 09:03:25 Quadrescence: The CLIM Listener is very nice as well 09:03:26 hehe 09:03:27 holycow: I've considered that too. 09:03:38 beach: Hm, maybe I'll get some of the stuff now. 09:03:50 -!- total-noob [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:04:24 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@p5B17F35A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:04:30 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/tools/index.html 09:10:52 I wish there was enough want for another lisp OS 09:11:02 /IDE, like genera 09:12:29 uh there is 09:12:38 i don't think there is a short of want 09:12:42 there is a short of hack 09:12:44 :) 09:13:01 and too many noob idiots like me that can't contribute crap 09:13:03 hehe 09:13:30 Hahaha. Maybe one day I'll be able to contribute something to lisp. 09:13:47 i'm learning slowly 09:13:59 i just saw a tutorial on creating a simple raytracer in lisp 09:14:33 it was the first time i've seen code for something that math heavy that didn't make me want to poke my eyes out or put me to sleep 09:14:40 I haven't slept in at least 36 hours, and I've cranked out about 2.2K lines of arguably worthless lisp. 09:14:49 hehe :) 09:15:05 i think if you were to do anything, climacs is your strongest option to get what you want out of an ide 09:15:11 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-130-10.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:15:24 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:15:26 its common lisp, starting from the ground up, no emacs history to weigh you down 09:15:48 -!- envi^laptop [n=envi@219.241.46.188] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:15:57 it is probably not the easy to hack, but the code generally does look quite good 09:16:24 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:16:47 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:17:40 ; caught 11 fatal ERROR conditions 09:17:44 Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:17:55 Uh oh. Maybe I need to upgrade SBCL or something. 09:18:10 hello ppl 09:23:04 Compile compile compile! 09:25:18 Hello Harag. I see you still haven't learned about abbrevs. 09:25:38 nope 09:26:18 to me those lol, roflmao, ppls etc are word/concepts on there own 09:27:38 i have used then for more than 10 years ...not a habbit that I will loose over night 09:27:48 Quadrescence: I am not sure where you get your information, nor what you are trying to accomplish, but you seem kind of detached from common knowledge. I mean, there are at least 3 or 4 LispOS projects, so no lack of desire there. And we have been working on the CLIM desktop for some 9 years now, so no lack of desire in the IDE business either. 09:28:10 Harag: well, overuse of such things is frowned upon in this channel. 09:28:18 beach: I am most certainly detached from both the community/knowledge. 09:28:31 lol well then it is a good thing that I dont over use them ;) 09:28:39 lol i agree 09:28:45 *holycow* introduces Quadrescence to google 09:28:49 :) 09:28:51 buggin ya 09:29:06 holycow: Quiet now; I've been more busy writing/reading old books/ 09:29:24 heh 09:29:42 the CLIM-Desktop is by far the best result in that area yet 09:29:47 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 09:30:10 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:30:13 Quadrescence: This is a page I wrote a while back: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/Lisp-projects/ 09:31:11 lispm: I agree. I think we are very close to something usable. 09:33:42 it might be useful to have a preloaded image for download... 09:35:09 -!- jao [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:37:14 -!- trcccc [n=Thomas@adsl-99-31-25-180.dsl.okcyok.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 09:39:01 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 09:39:47 beach: how close is close ...a year a month? 09:40:04 lisp years 09:40:15 meaning when people ha e time 09:40:34 yes time...*sight* 09:40:42 -t 09:40:45 What are we discussing? 09:40:58 Quadrescence: the CLIM Desktop 09:41:03 Ah 09:41:41 Harag: Hard to say because of people having very little time. I would estimate a few person-months to get something very usable. 09:42:29 i would say it is going to be a welcome change at least for me 09:42:29 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:42:34 even if it is barely useable 09:42:44 i'm so tired of the gnome/kde and variants 09:42:50 Me too. 09:42:58 I want a repl, not a terminal. 09:43:23 Quadrescence: Again, try the CLIM Desktop 09:43:45 holycow: McCLIM is already very usable. Not perfect, but very usable. 09:44:09 well, throw in a window manager and you have the software/IDE part of a Lisp Machine 09:44:22 Exactly! 09:44:31 we already have two interesting approaches: sawfish and stumpwm 09:44:50 beach: i think if you could break it down in tiny pieces so that even newbies could help even if it is just with testing you might get momentum going 09:45:19 lisp is getting momentum overall 09:45:29 Harag: That might be, but it is a very hard thing to do in practice. 09:45:41 yes agreed 09:45:47 on both points 09:45:54 as with most of the opensource / free softwarwe stuff it takes key projects along the way to bring in every new niche/user group in 09:45:58 its a matter of time 09:46:35 beach: Maybe if I can write a compiler for it, I'd be happy. :> 09:46:37 beach: it will take some serious planning but I think it would have some serious benifits 09:47:13 Quadrescence: That's one of the projects, but it is less urgent because we already have a few good ones. 09:47:28 Harag: You might be right. 09:48:44 well, while i want to get away from gnome/kde they do have a lot of that figured out 09:48:48 or rather, what not to do 09:48:57 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B53C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:03 kde4 for example has the entire framework stack worked out quite well on a cross platform basis 09:49:34 one wouldn't necessarily haveto start from scratch from an architecture perspective to get the sort of granularity to let people come in and play as it was suggested 09:49:46 but then, really just getting something out the door is far more important anyway 09:51:46 macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:51:52 holycow: yeah i think the one project that did it was mono...but they where lucky they already had a very clear spec and lots of "naturally" small pieces 09:51:59 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:52:02 holycow: Could you explain that in a little more detail to someone like me. Like, what is a framework stack and why is it important to have it figured out? 09:52:09 and they got something out the door asap 09:53:03 beach: well first framework stack is a nebulous term, it doesn't mean anything if you dig deep enough 09:53:04 good morning -- can anyone recommend a library that would let me use select() or poll() from cl that works with file descriptors? 09:53:05 however 09:53:19 lisp + clos + clim + database + ? is the software stack 09:53:20 it does describe general set of components that handle a lot of things for the app developer 09:53:33 for example hardware abstraction is one 09:53:34 ? is something like an application framework 09:53:38 macdice: you could just use the posix library of your favorite implementation. 09:53:42 another would be security policies 09:53:57 another would be system wide settings and dialogs and file management 09:54:10 holycow: I see, yes. 09:54:20 they are all apps in their own right but they exist more as a 'meta apps' which you access via an api 09:54:24 *nod* 09:54:50 undo/redo, clipboard, menu designer, icon designer, ... 09:55:28 yup 09:55:42 basically abstract everything that is re-useably 09:55:45 -e 09:56:08 beach: by that do you mean stuff like sb-unix:unix-select, or do you mean FFI directly to the C interface? 09:56:09 funnily enough, it seems to me that lisp would really excel at all of this 09:56:15 saving/loading documents 09:56:29 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 09:56:29 macdice: the former 09:57:29 my thinking for a lisp desktop is basically that if everythign was writtne in cl 09:57:44 you could probably provide some sort of metaframework 09:57:57 that could provide some sort of automatic api to every app 09:58:06 errrr 09:58:19 allow every app to expose it self via an api of some sort 09:58:24 Put most focus into GC. :) 09:59:46 holycow: I agree and that's the kind of stuff I have been thinking (a little) about for the CLIM Desktop. 10:00:07 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 10:01:05 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 10:01:20 however a project like this needs a torvalds imho 10:01:44 it needs someone with a vision and an idea to follow that can edit out crap :) and let those that hate that fork 10:01:46 heh 10:01:57 better somebody with UI skills ;-) 10:02:17 well it needs to be someone with skills in all areas including coding 10:02:32 I was contemplating buying a lisp machine from symbolics, but they are damn expensive. :< 10:02:37 beach is your Linus 10:02:45 hehehe 10:02:46 yeah right 10:02:57 Quadrescence: i'm going to buy one for sure 10:03:21 i mean im a noob and don't stand a chance of becoming anything decent in terms of a coder, but something like that deserves an appreciative home :) 10:03:28 I have one 60cm away from me 10:03:37 lispm: Don't taunt me. :( :( 10:03:39 I want. 10:03:46 lispm: hehe! sweet! 10:03:52 do you ever turn it on and use it? 10:04:04 it runs 10:04:09 now 10:04:34 lispm: Pictures? 10:04:56 http://lispm.dyndns.org/lisp/pics/docedit.png 10:04:56 Genera shots? :D 10:05:55 i'm torrenting genera as we speak 10:05:56 heh 10:06:08 holycow: Good luck getting it to run. 10:06:24 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 10:06:31 I was hacking on a small CLIM example 10:06:42 Soulman [n=kvirc@84.48.88.42] has joined #lisp 10:06:44 Quadrescence: not easy? someone posted instructions online somewhere, no indication it didn't work. k. 10:06:58 that should also run on McCLIM then 10:07:03 lispm: thx for the screenshot 10:07:17 holycow: They aren't straightforward, really. You're going to have to emulate an alpha proc. 10:07:31 Since that is what that torrent you're downloading is for. 10:07:45 aha. right 10:08:29 using it is really recreational 10:09:39 I was thinking about some other thing lately 10:09:43 seamus-android [n=user@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust124.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 10:09:53 snippets are quite popular lately 10:10:02 anybody are using them? 10:10:29 beach: Your "complete reference" goal looks like a fun one. :):) 10:10:53 looking at some of the linkage posted here, lots of interesting projects being incubated 10:11:27 how hard would it be to re-use non lisp libraries and things for some things while its bootstrapped? 10:11:58 something like a snippet system would be useful for McCLIM 10:12:20 where you get example code for CLIM symbols 10:12:39 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:12:44 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-140.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:13:02 like expand DEF-APP-FRA to DEFINE-APPLICATION-FRAME and get a list of longer example code to include into the editor 10:13:20 lots of CLIM/McCLIM macros are best used with example code 10:15:00 http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/Lisp-projects/x-server.html 10:15:02 oh jeebu 10:15:04 s 10:15:06 nice! 10:15:07 hehe 10:15:26 i thought only i thought such crazy thoughts 10:15:59 g'day 10:18:39 sweemeng [n=sweemeng@80.53.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 10:20:12 Lou_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:20:39 holycow, you can also use X11 on the real Lisp Machine, but that was the C version compiled 10:20:52 but it was running the code inside the Lisp image 10:20:56 neat. didn't know that 10:21:08 so the compiled X11 ran inside your Lisp 10:22:09 the C compiler compiled to object code that was loaded into Lisp 10:22:12 -!- seamus-android [n=user@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust124.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:22:14 huh 10:22:32 i think i actually understand what that means :) 10:23:11 maybe that would also be interesting, to have a C compiler, say, written in Lisp, that generates code that can be directly loaded into, say, SBCL 10:23:16 well i guess if they can run python on java ... why not. 10:23:41 that way you could run C code in Lisp 10:23:46 the added value: 10:23:58 lispm: that would allow for direct repurposing of a whole lot of code already out there. neat. 10:24:05 the compiled code could do runtime checks using the Lisp runtime 10:24:11 no buffer overflows 10:24:36 seamus-android [n=user@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust124.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 10:24:44 that way the C to Lisp infrastructure compiler could be interesting for people wanting to run C code that cannot be trivially compromised 10:24:45 we could provide a security policy with sandboxing to keep the c stuff safe 10:25:15 runtime array bounds checks, safe string operations, typed data 10:25:38 heh 10:25:42 cyclone 10:26:58 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["leaving"] 10:27:52 I'm excited to see climacs, provided it installs/compiles correctly. 10:28:22 .... are you guys trying to rebuild Genera C&Fortran systems? xD 10:29:17 Well, there is Zeta C 10:29:32 Oh my, climacs opened. 10:29:36 i'm just a noob dreaming, nothin more :) 10:29:49 Maxima also already uses an existing Fortran to CL translator 10:29:51 And why wouldn't a C compiler (to FASL) be made? :> 10:30:21 LispCC 10:30:31 because nobody is going to do it ? ;p 10:30:40 xristos: I would, maybe. :) 10:30:55 I'm in the mood to implement languages (as in, generally in the mood) 10:30:59 I was lately thinking more along the lines of a special-purpose low-level lang with lisp-like syntax, available from withing Lisp, so that I could do the bootstrap part in it for the rest of the lisp system :D 10:31:12 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-2.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 10:31:39 p_l: Hehe, I am writing a simple lisp now. 10:31:54 (simple, as in, lower level... maybe not) 10:32:15 sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3FBC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:17 Quadrescence: such a near-assembly or Lisp-like C would be a great thing for movitz and similar :) 10:32:33 p_l: I thought movitz already has asm built in? 10:32:47 Abelian [n=Abelian@yax.org.uk] has joined #lisp 10:33:01 schme: I meant it as an example 10:33:03 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-140.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:33:03 p_l: I've been writing a lisp-to-C compiler, and a bytecode compiler over the past few s 10:33:09 Clozure CL also has that: LAP (Lisp assembly) 10:33:12 -!- seamus-android [n=user@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust124.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:33:24 lispm: Now, to get SBCL C-free... :P 10:33:42 yeah, right :P 10:34:03 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 10:34:21 p_l: What gets troublesome is abstracting away the differences between say x86, x86-64 and riscy architectures. 10:35:42 milanj [n=milan@79.101.204.210] has joined #lisp 10:35:56 yeah 10:36:14 Why bother? 10:36:48 True true. just ignore x86-32 (: 10:37:14 josemanuel [n=josemanu@253.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:38:15 hmm... few people wanted CL on VMS (including me)... but I'm not sure if I want to learn VAX assembly :D 10:38:51 There was CL on the VAX, IIRC - 10:39:07 Or just run VMS on a none-VAX machine ;) 10:39:15 lispm: yes, VAXLisp, back in CLtL time :) 10:39:23 oh, heh, found my mirai cd 10:39:29 older 3d app all done in lisp 10:39:42 i'll try to get it running on a vm at the office and make it available if its doable :) 10:40:02 company is no longer in business so 10:40:10 it is 10:40:17 does it give you access to the source ? 10:40:22 no 10:40:22 IZWARE, I don't think it is open source 10:40:23 schme: I've got a running VAX/VMS 7.3, a not-really-running-but-somehow-boots VMS Alpha 8.3 and works-but-is-old-and-only-has-assembler VMS Alpha 6.1 :) 10:40:31 but the crashes are fun to read 10:40:32 hehe :) 10:40:37 not open source no 10:41:02 i think some people might find it interesting to play with anyway, i think they used franz or soemthing 10:41:05 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:48 p_l: I heard that you are going down to the post office on monday to ship those babies to me. Thanks! 10:42:10 schme: ROTFL 10:42:14 p_l: Have you tried building clisp on 'em? 10:42:20 schme: except for the last one, it's all on emulators 10:42:23 oh 10:42:27 well that's no fun :) 10:42:44 and the last one needs more mem 10:42:52 p_l: i've never seen vax/vms anything 10:42:54 heh neat 10:43:38 VMS8.3 refuses to install with less than 128mb of ram 10:45:56 (cause it uses a live-cd style system, I guess) 10:46:17 I might try loading it there by writing the image over network... 10:46:31 can anyone tell me how i can add a blackhole route for a certain ip address in linux/debian/etch? common-lisp.net is flooded by one particular host that i'd like to lock out. 10:46:53 H4ns: Why not simply add a filter with -j DROP ? 10:47:04 -!- sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3FBC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:47:39 p_l: i'm not much of a linux admin. what would be the command to do that? 10:48:32 oh boy... wait a while for I'm going to drop into manpages :D 10:49:21 uh, never mind! 10:49:24 *blush* 10:50:36 we are spam checking outgoing mailing list email *cough* 10:51:08 iptables -I INPUT 0 -s -p all -j DROP 10:51:50 that will silently drop traffic that have IP address as source 10:52:04 ip address of course written normally, without those < and > :D 10:52:25 p_l: thanks, but i think i'll not try to lock out myself :) 10:52:38 ok. need to run, thanks for helping 10:52:51 H4ns: If you specify the IP correctly, you won't lock out yourself :) 10:54:50 time to pack ^^; 10:55:48 *p_l* flies back home for easter 10:55:51 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 10:58:19 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@c-83-233-152-13.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:09:41 -!- Ppjet6 [n=ppjet@ivr94-11-88-187-39-7.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:15:01 -!- mikezor_ is now known as mikezor 11:16:32 Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:09 -!- macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:18:51 -!- bughunter2 [n=j@ip4da4427e.direct-adsl.nl] has left #lisp 11:21:40 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:26 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 11:25:31 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16AAEF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:25:47 *Krystof* cries 11:26:22 there are about six distinct things causing src/code/setf-funs.lisp-obj to be compiled differently with different host cross-compilers 11:26:24 my brain hurts 11:28:00 that file is about 20 lines long 11:30:26 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@253.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 11:38:07 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 11:40:14 Harag pasted "How to drop the brackets () from a list." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77716 11:41:47 in that context, you don't want to unquote the variable, you want to unquote-splice the variable 11:41:55 that's not the same as "dropping brackets from a list" 11:42:18 ok well dropping brackets from list is the only word i could come up with 11:42:34 i have no idea how to go about it 11:43:25 clhs ,@ 11:43:26 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for ,@. 11:43:29 clhs , 11:43:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dg.htm 11:43:38 is there a specific pattern for doing this ? 11:43:58 yes. If you read your favourite tutorial or textbook about backquote, it will tell you 11:44:15 ,@(list) 11:44:23 thanx 11:44:37 O'Reilly wants to publish a lisp book? What's next, Google? 11:45:11 about clojure? 11:45:29 sellout: Emacs Lisp 11:45:57 tcr: Heh, I don't think so ... or perhaps they're still open to suggestions about which lisp. 11:45:59 my favourate book had a slight problem the copy I got my hands on printed ` and ' the same and I have never been the same since trying to read the chapter on macros 11:46:43 sellout, where do they mention that they publish a Lisp book? 11:47:45 Weinreb emailed ilc09-attendees: "Our sponsor, O'Reilly publishing, is interested in considering a proposal for a book about Lisp. If you are interested or know anyone who is, send mail to Michael L. Loukides at: mikel@oreilly.com" 11:47:57 haha 11:48:15 after ten years (or more) of actively ignoring Lisp 11:48:40 many publishers would be proud to have for example Gigamonkey's book published 11:48:57 Peter did an absolutely brilliant job on that 11:49:22 and his publisher did not look too stupid either, just the opposite 11:49:30 X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has joined #lisp 11:50:17 Yeah, and PragProg did the Clojure book ... 11:50:34 Which I have, but haven't actually read yet. 11:50:59 with my view from the outside Apress did do everything right 11:51:17 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6FB0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:35 there is an online version, the printed version reads fine and they had an competent author 11:51:57 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:52:03 I bought a few oreilly books, but stopped after a while 11:52:24 most information was outdated quickly 11:52:39 and online references were more useful 11:53:11 You really need an author like Peter who cares about his subject 11:54:51 the 'real world haskell' book might also be worth to read 12:01:24 when publishing a book with oreilly I propose to make the text light grey, uppercase and the parentheses fat & dark 12:01:44 if i were to do a lisp book, i'd offer and electronig and dead tree one, and then do a value add where the code examples, tutorials, etc. are all available via subscription of some sort and emacs pulls in all this stuff plus has code completion for lessons and other goodies 12:01:51 i'd pay for that easily and it could remain relavent 12:02:09 and they could release versions as users follow various topics 12:02:50 ebooks also might be interesting 12:03:29 hell, you could sell the book directly as an emacs extension 12:03:39 say an Sony/Amazon/iphone ebook application where the Lisp symbols are linked back to the ebook HyperSpec and other ebooked documentation 12:03:50 split window, read in one, code in another, next, next, next. 12:04:21 of course knowing orreily they would do it all for fucking eclipse 12:04:23 lol 12:05:04 I don't think there is a large market for an interesting Lisp book by oreilly 12:05:35 the typical oreilly buyer does not use Lisp and oreilly as a publisher lacks the competence in that area (Lisp) 12:05:54 yeah, i don't know enough to say. you are probably right 12:06:13 write one and pester them to release it together with "starter pack" on CD, with little or none royalties + add backing from #lisp? ;D 12:06:25 haha 12:06:25 lol 12:08:00 they like publishing APIs, publish the McCLIM exported symbols, reformat a bit, ready is a book 12:08:16 or do it like RWH :D 12:08:53 well the thing about publishing is it costs enormous sums for the dead tree stuff 12:09:13 'McCLIM, the missing manual' 12:09:37 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:09:41 if they sold it as an ebook with a tie in to an emacs extension or someting like that, it would be way cheaper to produce and might even be profitable for niche markets 12:09:49 with an Lisp alien on the cover 12:09:58 programming is kinda the right sorta audience for that business model 12:10:13 so says somone who knows bupkus about lisp AND publishing 12:10:15 hehehe 12:10:16 oreilly, 'programming clojure', April 2009 12:10:26 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 12:11:06 damn. I have to reload my electronic stuff now 12:11:10 packing sucls 12:11:12 *sucks 12:11:32 oreilly: the manga guide to calculus 12:11:41 the economy must be really bad 12:11:46 vixey [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:11:54 lispm: erm, it wasn't afaik done by o'reilly 12:12:06 and the book iirc is quite good <--- thinks of getting it 12:12:30 june 2009, estimate publishing date 12:12:34 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:13:36 the english spammer on c.l.l reports that his Microsoft related sales are going to zero 12:14:24 I guess another Clojure book might get some sales 12:14:47 but Common Lisp topics? 12:14:59 Maybe an Edi Weitz book on his stuff? 12:15:10 ediware explained 12:15:34 "common lisp in 24 hours"? 12:16:18 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-189-59.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:21 stassats: how would you like to die? 12:17:00 'learn to write Lisp in every language' 12:17:17 in APL 12:17:22 ROTFL 12:17:23 PHP 12:17:29 -!- sweemeng [n=sweemeng@80.53.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has left #lisp 12:17:44 VB. And no, not .NET. VBA 12:17:59 Upgrade to Lisp from Ruby 12:19:23 recently I read some positive remarks about LoL, http://letoverlambda.com/ 12:19:33 ams [n=ams@gnu/inetutils/ams] has joined #lisp 12:19:38 did you read them on http://letoverlambda.com/ ? 12:19:43 anyone know of any barcode ocr reading thingies for cl? 12:19:48 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-217.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:20:05 vixey, no some blogs 12:20:14 blogs by the author? 12:20:22 haha, no 12:20:33 well I'm just going to guess that bribery was involved then 12:20:46 really? 12:20:49 lispm: there were some LoL proponents even here 12:21:21 CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.114.114] has joined #lisp 12:21:33 Let Over Lambda is one of the most hardcore computer programming books out there. Starting with the fundamentals, it describes the most advanced features of the most advanced language: COMMON LISP. 12:21:34 bahaha 12:21:50 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable056.63-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 12:22:01 best laugh i have had this week. 12:22:03 i smell sarcasm 12:22:07 yes. 12:22:21 lots of it, i guess it messes up your sense? 12:22:58 hehehe, it's a bit think 12:23:01 thick 12:23:12 one 'Lisp book' that I want to buy is this one: http://zero.radonc.washington.edu/faculty/ira/pbi/ 12:23:22 there is a chapter, full chapter, on free variables... amazing.. 12:23:23 Principles of Biomedical Informatics 12:24:30 lispm: the topic sounds fun, no clue about the book... sounds far nicer that LOL which seems to be a utter joke 12:25:08 mucus_ [n=luca@host-62-10-155-178.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:25:33 ams: Well I think it's been shown that people buy into this sort of crap (see e.g. On Lisp) 12:25:56 vixey: defintily. 12:25:57 it is not a full chapter on free variables, it is a couple of paragraphs 12:27:12 I did once think of writing an 'Advanced topics in CL' book 12:27:14 snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has joined #lisp 12:27:14 lispm: seeing it is the "most hardcore programming book out there", just a single paragraph is laughable. 12:27:47 -!- mucus_ [n=luca@host-62-10-155-178.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 12:27:51 haha, yeah, I'm not a fan of that language either 12:28:08 -!- snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has left #lisp 12:28:16 ams: to be fair, I think it's tounge in cheek though 12:28:28 ams: his blog or whatever is called hardcore so .. 12:28:30 vixey: no, it is marketing speech. 12:29:29 Lou_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 12:30:06 snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has joined #lisp 12:30:37 is it any good? 12:32:48 you can look at the online chapters and see for yourself 12:33:13 -!- snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has quit [Client Quit] 12:33:42 there are places where a publisher helps and people who read the book before publishing 12:34:21 self-publishing makes the books less polished, but there is also some good side to it 12:34:35 books are not that streamlined then 12:35:04 npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 12:46:16 lispm: Advanced Lisp Technology is a very very good book. It consists of Japanese Lisp research and is widely unknown. I haven't read it through yet, but when I'm finished, I'll write a review. 12:46:54 did you ask me about that book sometime? 12:47:26 Possibly, but I don't think so. Do you own it? 12:47:33 schme [n=schme@83.249.81.1] has joined #lisp 12:47:34 mrSpec [n=SomeOne@88.208.105.1] has joined #lisp 12:47:37 Hello 12:47:38 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 12:47:42 The remark was intended as a recommendation for you 12:47:58 I have that book ;-) 12:49:00 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-68-239-77-4.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:18 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D705.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:27 I also found a copy of that Miller book in our library 12:49:44 *tcr* afk 12:49:51 and? what do you think? 12:50:06 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 12:50:07 Is in lisp any recursive verion of member ? which search in sublists ? 12:50:28 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 12:51:54 tcr: also, what did you like most about the Advanced Lisp Technology book? 12:54:03 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483E84B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:26 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:04:33 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-118-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:16:31 -!- vixey [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:17:23 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:19:13 Lou_ [n=lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 13:24:23 mrSpec: What if you're trying to check the equality of lists in MEMBER? 13:26:08 snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has joined #lisp 13:26:53 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:27:05 -!- snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has left #lisp 13:28:08 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:35:48 Alban1 [n=Alban@223.249.204-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:50 -!- chpln [n=chpln@ppp121-45-157-74.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:38:48 badkins [n=user@adsl-068-209-204-112.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:21 -!- Alban1 [n=Alban@223.249.204-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:40:36 UnwashedMeme1 [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:30 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 13:43:58 schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:44:23 matley [n=matley@93.68.133.33] has joined #lisp 13:44:34 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1C6C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:46:06 hey, my format "bottle" was shown at ILC! :) 13:46:21 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsl-92-252-66-63.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:47:52 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-2.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:51:57 vy, checking equality ? why ? I dont understand. 13:53:30 mrSpec: Consider (member '(1 2) '((2 3) (3 4) (1 2)) :test #'equalp). Now, should I recursively search sublists as well? How could I infer that? 13:55:11 michaelw: fame at last! 13:55:55 even if it only is with a bottle 13:55:57 ah not, I need something like (member '1 '((1 2 )(2 3 )(5 6))) 13:56:21 I need a pony 13:56:30 hehe :D 13:56:50 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:57:17 I've written this function, but thinking if it was necessary ;] 13:58:15 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:59:02 segv [n=mb@79.193.203.109] has joined #lisp 14:03:25 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable056.63-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:04:24 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-200.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:07:12 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-718de742afcc0e50] has joined #lisp 14:07:58 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-718de742afcc0e50] has left #lisp 14:10:32 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.255.147] has quit [] 14:13:00 seamus-android [n=user@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust124.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:27 pkhuong: here's a fun idea for your sse intrinsics: an efficient embedded APL implementation 14:13:52 -!- dmitry_vk [n=dvk@89.232.126.96] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:14:25 LostMonarch [n=roby@host179-131-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:21:46 wjlroe [n=will@93-97-171-163.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:24:33 -!- pitui` [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:24:57 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:46 Krystof: doable. 14:30:01 what? not "already done"? You're slipping 14:30:14 for file in obj/from-clisp-xc/src/code/*.lisp-obj; do cmp ${file} obj/from-sbcl-xc/src/code/$(basename $file); done | wc -l 14:30:14 58 14:30:22 progress, for small values of "progress" 14:30:56 -!- npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:34:21 maskd [i=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has joined #lisp 14:35:32 something like Eigen (C++ matrix math) seems quite straight-forward, and there'd be no template madness 14:37:19 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:09 sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.255.147] has joined #lisp 14:47:27 drewc: here-p 14:49:04 jfl [n=jfl@pcd542246.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 14:52:13 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-137-77.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:57:04 -!- jfl [n=jfl@pcd542246.netvigator.com] has quit [] 14:58:02 khisanth_ [n=Khisanth@151.205.125.200] has joined #lisp 15:01:30 -!- CyberBlue [n=yong@60.26.114.114] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:02:21 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-234-40.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [] 15:02:21 -!- prip_ [n=_prip@host136-122-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:07:05 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:10:40 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@151.205.125.200] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:12:06 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-137-77.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:13:53 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-84-44-168-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:15:27 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-137-77.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:15:42 kiris [n=user@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has joined #lisp 15:16:48 can a lisp macro throw some kind of error that is the same sort as any other syntax error? 15:17:03 kiris: of course. 15:17:19 -!- khisanth_ [n=Khisanth@151.205.125.200] has quit [Network is unreachable] 15:17:19 how? 15:17:20 (error 'program-error) 15:17:50 can it display the file and line number? 15:19:06 Look in clhs for the defined conditions. Notice that they don't have much parameters for you to set. But you can define sub-conditions. Your implementation may already do (eg. clisp have a lot of SIMPLE-* sub-conditions with added error message). 15:19:33 To get the file you could use *LOAD-PATHNAME*, but it may be already NIL when the macro is expanded... 15:20:01 the macro-expander can display source locations, when it catches the error. 15:20:10 the mapping of warnings or errors to source location may be independent of the actual condition object. 15:20:13 To get the line number it would be implementation dependant: perhaps there's some variable kept with the line number while loading it. But with the same caveat: macros are not necessarily expanded while reading the file. 15:20:26 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:20:39 why wouldn't a macro be expanded while reading a file? 15:20:48 Yes, why? 15:20:48 lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-234-40.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 15:21:08 Perhaps *load-pathname* is set by compile-file too? 15:21:35 No, there's a *compile-file-pathname* instead. 15:21:46 jlf` [n=user@adsl-76-200-133-40.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:52 jlf`` [n=user@adsl-76-200-133-40.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:29 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.131.25] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:22:40 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.131.25] has joined #lisp 15:23:46 -!- jlf`` [n=user@adsl-76-200-133-40.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:26:00 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 15:28:48 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:46 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:38:13 elias` [n=me@194.81.254.94] has joined #lisp 15:39:49 ivan4th [n=ivan4th@212.1.228.48] has joined #lisp 15:44:31 ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:17 total-noob [n=user@122.19.202.131] has joined #lisp 15:46:22 kenyao [n=kenyao@116.22.77.93] has joined #lisp 15:49:15 -!- total-noob [n=user@122.19.202.131] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:51:28 -!- kenyao [n=kenyao@116.22.77.93] has quit [Client Quit] 15:55:28 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-98-194-108-33.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:55:53 khisanth_ [n=Khisanth@141.157.231.96] has joined #lisp 15:58:16 SSE intrinsics are very exciting 15:59:58 myrkraverk`` [n=johann@157-157-81-133.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 16:01:47 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 16:02:12 hefner: spectral norm? 16:02:48 Does sbcl still use futexes for threads? 16:02:50 http://sbcl-internals.cliki.net/Removing futexes 16:04:02 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:55 ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@88-108-126-11.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:12 mooglenorph: where available. 16:06:41 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:06:45 -!- m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:07:35 xan-afk_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:07:44 -!- xan-afk [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:08:56 pkhuong: but, is there an alternate mechanism for them now? ie, is that page up to date re status of threads on non-futex platforms? 16:09:10 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@203.83.248.37] has joined #lisp 16:10:43 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@203.83.248.37] has quit [Client Quit] 16:10:55 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-1c277d4919d1823d] has joined #lisp 16:10:56 mooglenorph: there are threads on many non-linux OSes. The viability of the ports vary. 16:11:02 for file in obj/from-clisp-xc/src/code/*.lisp-obj; do cmp ${file} obj/from-sbcl-xc/src/code/$(basename $file); done | wc -l 16:11:02 55 16:11:26 -!- spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-1c277d4919d1823d] has left #lisp 16:11:26 minion: chant! 16:11:27 MORE PROGRESS 16:12:05 Heh. I guess I'll just get a freebsd virtual macheine going and test it there. 16:14:23 the bad news is that the problems are getting harder and harder to work out 16:15:11 -!- jlf` [n=user@adsl-76-200-133-40.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:16:49 -!- khisanth_ [n=Khisanth@141.157.231.96] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:17:27 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:18:06 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151257.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:18:29 jlf` [n=user@adsl-76-200-133-40.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:27 it looks like the discrepancy in bignum.lisp is in the generated code for negate-bignum :-( 16:21:33 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-122-111.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:21:52 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-31-118.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:21:55 -!- beach` is now known as beach 16:22:32 can anyone recommend a way of disassembling an arbitrary file? 16:23:00 ndisasm 16:23:03 is there some canonical way of finding the most common element in a list? 16:23:32 chessguy [n=chessguy@c-68-84-2-127.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:38 xyblor: scan the list and increment a hash-table entry 16:23:59 xyblor: then find the max entry in the hash table 16:24:11 okay 16:24:50 or avoid traversing the hash table by keeping track of the max key and count while incrementing the entry. 16:26:07 okay 16:26:25 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-34-193.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:26:37 -!- kiris [n=user@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has left #lisp 16:26:38 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-122-111.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:26:39 -!- chessguy [n=chessguy@c-68-84-2-127.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:26:43 -!- beach` is now known as beach 16:27:01 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-81-133.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:07 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-204-92-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:28:26 borism [n=boris@195.50.200.70] has joined #lisp 16:29:32 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-82-94.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:29:50 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 16:29:51 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-34-193.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:29:54 -!- beach` is now known as beach 16:32:31 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.255.147] has quit [] 16:33:02 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 16:33:27 borism_ [n=boris@195.50.207.35] has joined #lisp 16:34:30 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 16:34:44 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit [Client Quit] 16:36:49 if I've got this right, the difference between clisp and sbcl's cross compilers at this point is the difference between (ecx, edx) and (edx, ecx) as temporaries 16:37:40 00000011 8B4DE4 mov ecx,[ebp-0x1c] 16:37:40 00000014 8B55E8 mov edx,[ebp-0x18] 16:37:40 00000017 8B5411F9 mov edx,[ecx+edx-0x7] 16:37:41 and 16:37:57 00000011 8B55E4 mov edx,[ebp-0x1c] 16:37:57 00000014 8B4DE8 mov ecx,[ebp-0x18] 16:37:57 00000017 8B540AF9 mov edx,[edx+ecx-0x7] 16:38:16 SORT! 16:38:20 yeah, quite possibly 16:38:32 I've already fixed some sort vs stable-sort inconsistencies 16:38:48 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-98-194-108-33.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:18 -!- borism [n=boris@195.50.200.70] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:40:00 here is me hoping that someone else can just tell me what's wrong 16:43:21 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:43:59 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:46:50 metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:23 flazz [n=franco@209.17.170.123] has joined #lisp 16:47:58 -!- keithr [n=keithr@ip68-13-249-183.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:51:45 -!- ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:52:21 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has left #lisp 16:52:29 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@68.160.211.192] has joined #lisp 16:52:34 -!- wjlroe [n=will@93-97-171-163.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["leaving"] 16:56:06 -!- matley [n=matley@93.68.133.33] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:57:01 repnop [n=repnop@adsl-69-226-99-176.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:34 is there some way to turn off compiler-macros for a short time? 16:57:56 that is to say, to turn them off, do a benchmark, turn them back on 16:59:00 madnificent: (declaim (notinline fn)) 16:59:30 ejs [n=eugen@133-104-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:01 Lain [n=Lain@c-71-224-213-131.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:06 ah right, thanks tcr 17:02:27 nothing more global, right? 17:02:31 -!- jlf` [n=user@adsl-76-200-133-40.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:03:43 -!- Lain [n=Lain@c-71-224-213-131.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:04:41 madnificent: you can make that declaration local, if you wish 17:05:17 ferada [n=user@e179237204.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:05:35 fe[nl]ix: I think he wanted it more global. 17:06:11 well, I was looking for a way to turn off all compiler-macro's defined in a certain package (or just plain all of them, but that seems more dirty) 17:06:17 madnificent: you can temporarily redefine compiler-macro-function to always return nil 17:06:19 more global than a declaim? 17:06:50 cmm: global in the sense that it should've matched more definitions :) 17:07:07 tcr: good idea 17:07:29 sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.255.147] has joined #lisp 17:07:49 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.13] has joined #lisp 17:08:09 yipstar [n=user@cpe-74-64-96-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:11 madnificent: ah :) 17:11:34 ah, a moment of glory, the compiler macros seem to be speeding things up 17:11:34 madnificent: you could make your compiler macros conditional on a global toggle. then turning them off would be the matter of twiddling the toggle and recompiling 17:12:13 cmm: yes, I actually assumed that something like that would've existed 17:14:42 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsl-92-252-66-63.dip.osnanet.de] has quit ["system.exit(now);"] 17:15:08 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 17:23:48 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:29:25 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:35:32 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 17:45:50 slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF09E3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:35 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:48:19 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:50:20 (proclaim (list 'notinline (loop for all the symbols in package if (compiler-macro-function symbol) collect symbol))) 17:50:34 -!- seamus-android [n=user@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust124.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:50:50 meanwhile, why has no-one solved _my_ problem on IRC? 17:51:53 It's useless this channel. 17:52:02 yeah 17:53:43 Please solve now. 17:54:17 Reminds me of the phrase "Please fix or we cancel project" often uttered by Japanese. 17:54:41 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:10 seppuku-knife at the ready and all that 17:56:44 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B53C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 17:58:22 can someone give me some paste sites ? 17:58:22 the url's i mean 17:58:30 minion: lisppaste? 17:58:30 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 17:58:32 hi, can I pop an item from a list given an index? (defvar lst '("foo" "bar" "baz")) (pop-elt lst 1) -> "bar" lst -> '("foo" "baz") 17:58:37 i lost all my bookmarks gah 17:58:47 egn: you cannot _modify_ a quoted literatl. 17:59:05 jao [n=jao@75.84.114.170] has joined #lisp 17:59:08 pjb: I would have to create new? 17:59:08 egn: you should cater to the earmuff convention for special variables! 17:59:25 egn: Yes: (defparameter *lst* (list "foo" "bar" "baz")) 17:59:31 thank you all 17:59:42 egn: then you can (pop (cddr *lst*)) 18:00:28 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@68.126.185.40] has joined #lisp 18:00:30 pjb: k, thanks 18:00:49 or (pop (nthcdr 1 *list*)) 18:00:50 clhs get-setf-expansion 18:01:21 stassats: thanks 18:01:50 Well you can do (pop (cdr (nthcdr (1- i) *lst*))) 18:03:05 -!- slash__ is now known as slash_ 18:03:35 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:35 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsl-92-252-66-63.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:06:34 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:06:35 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:06:35 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:11:05 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsl-92-252-66-63.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [] 18:11:59 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-15-137.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:12:17 -!- lispm [n=joswig@g224120255.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:14:39 [Pujol] [n=PUJOL@24-148-30-208.mart-bsr1.chi-mart.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:14:42 <[Pujol]> i need help 18:14:44 <[Pujol]> with this 18:14:52 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:14:55 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:14:57 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:01 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:03 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:06 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:09 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:13 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:16 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:17 -!- sbahra_ is now known as sbahra 18:15:19 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:22 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:23 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:15:25 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:28 <[Pujol]> ################---########### 18:15:30 that's the most boring ascii art I've ever seen 18:15:31 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:34 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:37 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:37 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:40 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:43 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:44 er... 18:15:46 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:49 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:52 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:55 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:15:58 <[Pujol]> ############################## 18:16:00 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:01 drewc: kick? 18:16:02 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:04 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:06 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:08 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:10 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:12 jfc. 18:16:12 pcl? 18:16:12 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:14 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:16 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:18 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:20 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:22 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:24 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:26 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:28 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:30 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:32 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:34 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:36 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:38 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:40 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:42 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:44 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:46 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:48 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:50 Why? 18:16:50 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:52 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:54 Stop it [Pujol]. 18:16:54 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:56 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:16:58 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:00 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:02 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:04 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:06 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:08 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:10 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:12 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:14 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:16 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:18 frefuxache. 18:17:18 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:20 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:22 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:24 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:26 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:28 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:30 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:32 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:34 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:36 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:38 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:40 Xof: ping 18:17:40 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:43 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:44 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:46 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:48 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:51 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:52 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:55 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:57 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:17:59 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:01 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:03 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:05 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:07 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:08 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:09 Krystof, antifuchs: ping 18:18:11 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:13 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:15 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:17 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:19 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:21 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:23 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:23 Zhivago: ping ;-) 18:18:25 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:26 that's the ones I know ;-) 18:18:27 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:28 -!- antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has been kicked from #lisp 18:18:29 quit 18:18:32 -!- ferada [n=user@e179237204.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:18:35 [Pujol] [n=PUJOL@24-148-30-208.mart-bsr1.chi-mart.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:35 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:37 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:39 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:41 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:41 -!- antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has been kicked from #lisp 18:18:43 [Pujol] [n=PUJOL@24-148-30-208.mart-bsr1.chi-mart.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:45 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:47 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:49 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:51 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:53 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:55 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:57 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:18:58 ferada [n=user@e179237204.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:59 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:01 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:03 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:05 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:06 oO 18:19:07 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:08 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 18:19:09 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:11 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:13 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:15 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:17 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:19 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:19 what's going on 18:19:21 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:23 http://www.livinginternet.com/r/ra_ignore.htm 18:19:23 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:25 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:26 ban list is full 18:19:27 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:28 -!- Krystof has set mode -b *!*n=g@*.socal.res.rr.com 18:19:29 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:31 gosh 18:19:31 <[Pujol]> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAH 18:19:32 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:34 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:36 <[Pujol]> ............... 18:19:36 -!- Krystof has set mode +b *!*n=PUJOL@*.mart-bsr1.chi-mart.il.static.cable.rcn.com 18:19:38 -!- antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has been kicked from #lisp 18:19:40 sorry 18:19:45 thanks Krystof 18:19:46 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:19:51 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 18:19:53 we should ask for a larger channel ban list 18:19:54 srsly. 18:19:57 wow 18:20:00 we really should 18:20:15 i haven't seen that shit since #efnet in the mid nineties. 18:20:20 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:20 pfft. 18:20:23 you haven't been here for long, then 18:20:26 that's some mentally insane faktard 18:20:28 it happens about every month or so 18:21:17 does minion have a ops command? to ping every op? 18:21:30 not that it would have helped this time because he just disconnected before it happened 18:21:34 anyways... I INSTALLED SBCL!! 18:21:37 succelfully 18:21:54 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:00 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:56 LaGaVuLiN [n=IceChat7@81.193.141.201] has joined #lisp 18:23:05 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:25:24 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@68.126.185.40] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:26:16 -!- LaGaVuLiN [n=IceChat7@81.193.141.201] has quit [Client Quit] 18:27:06 cl-noob [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:28:05 LaGaVuLiN [n=lagavuli@bl4-141-201.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:28:25 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-82-94.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:30:37 -!- cl-noob [n=user@p5131-ipbfp301otsu.shiga.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["bye"] 18:32:38 a-s [n=user@92.80.66.203] has joined #lisp 18:33:35 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:14 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-219-94.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:50 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-219-94.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:41:14 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-219-94.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:13 What is this madness--O'Reilly is soliciting Lisp book proposals? 18:43:32 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:43:39 rme [n=rme@pool-70-106-128-220.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:48 gigamonkey: so, it seems you were a pioneer 18:44:05 gigamonkey: and you had another project, no? Can't you write a book about that? 18:44:38 Another project? Not anything worth writing about. 18:45:20 Though I have ocassionally thought of a sequel More Practical Common Lisp 18:45:37 minion chant 18:45:42 minion: chant 18:45:43 MORE PRACTICAL 18:45:45 what would it discuss? 18:46:08 The next 500 pages worth of stuff you need to know after you read PCL. ;-) 18:46:23 Probably get more into the details of using the many fine libraries, etc. out there. 18:46:27 And SLIME. 18:46:34 gigamonkey: the new form of coding you were talking about (with Knuth, I vaguely remember), that sounded interesting 18:46:56 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has joined #lisp 18:47:07 Might be doable now that Clozure Common Lisp runs on all the major platforms anyone cares about. 18:47:20 gigamonkey: are you the fellow behind practical common lisp? 18:47:35 holycow: capital T, please :) 18:47:40 minion: chant 18:47:40 MORE SOPHISTICATED 18:47:46 minion: chant 18:47:46 MORE SOPHISTICATED 18:47:52 minion: shut up 18:47:52 ok 18:48:09 gigamonkey: my humblest thanks for the book dude 18:48:11 totally awesome 18:48:38 holycow: you're welcome. Glad you enjoyed it. 18:49:04 Hmmm. Based on the email and now a privmsg I've got from people thinking of writing Lisp books, maybe I should go into the Lisp-book-writing consulting business. 18:49:22 gigamonkey: what is stopping you from writing a new one? 18:49:31 write a book about writing a book about lisp 18:49:46 Well, not a book but: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/blog/2007/04/10/how-to-write-a-book.html 18:49:53 madnificent: nothing really. 18:50:15 Though I'm not sure if writing *another* Lisp book would be as satisfying as writing the first one. 18:50:30 Especially as it now appears the market is going to be glutted. ;-) 18:50:58 gigamonkey: just a thought, we kinda joked around about a book for a fairly niche market like lisp last night 18:51:17 oreilly is still focused on pushing a pile of pulp 18:51:43 It's interesting though that O'Reilly is interested since they tend, these days, to be pretty conservative. 18:52:00 They don't publish things unless they think there is a real chance it's going to sell a lot of copies. 18:52:04 one interesting idea might be to publish it as an ebook where you offer code samples, code completion, examples, book, etc as an extension to emacs or something 18:52:16 and you can sell like a subscription thing 18:52:30 sort of like the way xbox sells online subscriptions i guess 18:52:44 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:52:48 holycow: peepcode.com (is something similar, I think) 18:52:59 holycow: that's quite an interesting idea! 18:53:04 drewc: ! 18:53:28 drewc: well i'm just a noob looking to learn 18:53:32 i would pay for something like that 18:53:50 one way i visualize it is i install an emacs extension ... with some sort of authentication thingy i paid for i donno 18:53:54 i open up emacs 18:54:05 split the window into two vertically on my lcd 18:54:14 left hand side i code stuff, right hand side, read the book 18:54:18 drewc: I've been looking around for you (yay, you must feel awkward now). Is there something I'd need to do in order to check out the way you store objects in the database in LoL, I'd like to see if I can use only that part (and I'd like to see how it behaves) 18:54:32 and you know, you can have like special modes to help teach the stuff in the book 18:54:38 code examples 18:54:46 you get things like slime for free 18:55:05 hi everybody 18:55:08 and sbcl and such so a lot is possible without having to write an entire ide and a framework and such 18:55:19 madnificent: yeah, for sure. 18:55:24 and you can structure it so that payments are per section or something 18:55:25 holycow: i love emacs but couldn't it scare potential customers? 18:55:29 an ebook version would be nice too, as the readers are nice, but the formats for it aren't 18:55:57 LaGaVuLiN: just using it as a general idea. i'm certain if anyone treid this they would do something in eclipse ... which would make me puke :) 18:55:58 hehe 18:56:04 drewc: link of some sort, or some sample code, maybe? 18:56:08 madnificent: http://common-lisp.net/project/lisp-on-lines/repo/relational-objects-for-lisp/ 18:56:15 anyway gigamonkey, you shared your book, i'm sharing my crazy idea :) 18:56:17 drewc: briliant 18:56:32 madnificent: there is a test suite in there that should cover it. 18:56:41 gigamonkey: if you did something like that with ongoing topics, i would buy 18:56:55 holicow: i like the idea anyway 18:57:11 programming is perfect for this sort of idea 18:57:24 drewc: is rofl in clbuild somehow? 18:57:40 madnificent: i think it is, as a matter of fact. 18:57:45 holycow: given my apparent inability to, say, keep Lispbox up to date, I think I'd rather just write books. Not maintenance required. 18:58:13 But if you could find something that would keep drawing subscribers and would keep your interest, it might be fun. 18:58:26 gigamonkey: hehe :) anyway thanks for the book, this noob is having fun going through it 18:59:07 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:59:12 I want a book, preferably hardcover... 18:59:32 -!- Cryovat [i=isis@akuma.no] has quit ["ZNC by prozac - http://znc.sourceforge.net"] 18:59:49 drewc: any ideas under what name it should be in clbuild? 19:00:22 madnificent: relational-objects-for-lisp 19:00:29 or rofl .. i'm not sure. 19:01:08 drewc: relational-objects-for-lisp it is 19:01:09 thanks 19:01:31 -!- ejs [n=eugen@133-104-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:04:22 madnificent: i'm on my way out (sailing this afternoon), but feel free to email drewc@tech.coop if you have any questions. 19:04:31 for file in obj/from-clisp-xc/src/code/*.lisp-obj; do cmp ${file} obj/from-sbcl-xc/src/code/$(basename $file); done | wc -l 19:04:31 51 19:04:46 drewc: very nice of you. Have fun! 19:04:52 *gigamonkey* doesn't get people who think macros make code harder to read. 19:05:08 gigamonkey: i am sometimes on of those people. 19:05:13 one of* 19:05:31 Krystof: so, what was the code object size difference about? 19:06:02 well, one of them that I've fixed was a host leak 19:06:14 a type declaration used cl:most-positive-fixnum instead of sb-xc:most-positive-fixnum 19:06:17 Well, they *can*. But if they do, you're doing it wrong. 19:06:19 gigamonkey: depends on what background they have. For instance, a typical java programmer will try to convert it every time they see it ... 19:06:27 jsnell: there are still some others left 19:06:40 gigamonkey: poorly written macros lacking a well thought out underlying functional protocol have been, in my experience, a readability killer. 19:06:57 I would like to read something which shows functional programming on some practical examples. Does anyone know what I can read? 19:07:15 Well, poorly written X lacking a well thought out anything tend to be bad. 19:07:37 The-Kenny: #haskell is over there -----> 19:07:53 at the moment I am trying to track down two gensyms that seem somehow associated with &optional / &more-processor in a non-obvious way 19:07:59 Though you can write Lisp in a functional style if you care to. 19:08:03 gigamonkey: do we have to normalize for the probability that macros coincide with more complicated problems that would take more effort to understand anyway? 19:08:03 gigamonkey: true, but a poorly written functions doesn't change the evaluation rules of the language and force you to expand a bunch of code to figure out what's really going on :) 19:08:36 this is not, of course, an argument against macros.... 19:09:10 at some point, though, the ecx/edx arbitrariness and the code-length thing (and one or two other very weird things: one of them having fops which seem to construct an octet vector of some kind and the other not) 19:09:19 will have to be tracked down 19:09:22 drewc: Sure. I wonder if the right thing to do if you've got a badly written macro mightn't just be to replace all uses of it with the macro expansion and then refactor until you figure out what, if any, macro you really want. 19:09:43 The-Kenny: lisp isn't purely functional (which is a good thing IMHO). If you want to see purely functional code, you may find it interesting to read some haskell code 19:10:06 ok, i have to run, the tide waits for no man. 19:10:27 madnificent: Okay, thanks! 19:11:14 ejs [n=eugen@133-104-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:12 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:12:25 The-Kenny: you can, in fact code in lisp in a purely functional form, but you probably don't want to play with a variable that keeps the state of your application. Are you mainly interested in lisp, or in functional programming 19:12:45 madnificent: More in Lisp I think. 19:13:12 I can program in Lisp I think... not soooo good, but I can write simple things ;) I just want to improve my knowledge 19:13:40 The-Kenny: you may find it interesting to read the practical common lisp book... 19:13:45 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:14:32 The-Kenny: on-lisp is another book that has a free online version, which is rather intersting 19:14:44 madnificent: I've learned Common Lisp with PCL ;) 19:15:06 Ok, I will have a look on on-lisp. 19:15:08 Krystof: Have you tried instrumenting SB!C::FIND-FREE-VAR? 19:15:41 The-Kenny: good luck, have fun! 19:15:57 for what, gensym tracking down? The gensyms in question are probably not free variables 19:16:07 they're dumped in fasls because they're in arglists or debug-names or something, probably 19:16:10 madnificent: Thank you :) Oh, and gigamonkey: Thank's for writing this awesome book. 19:16:41 The-Kenny: no problem. Glad you liked it. 19:18:05 matley [n=matley@83.225.99.159] has joined #lisp 19:18:13 in fact, there seems to be a consistent pattern: the next two symbols dumped after &more-processor are gensyms that I want to know where they come from 19:19:19 Krystof: no, the host leak from m-p-f. 19:19:50 wouldn't have helped; the declaration in question was (type (integer -1 #.most-positive-fixnum)) 19:21:01 possibly I should get all of this work into some git tree somewhere before I lose it all 19:24:49 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Client Quit] 19:25:40 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 19:26:44 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:29:46 -!- holycow [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:29:53 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-179.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 19:31:31 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:32:34 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-179.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 19:32:54 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-179.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 19:33:04 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-179.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:33:15 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-179.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 19:34:10 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-179.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 19:34:29 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-179.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 19:35:12 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-179.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:35:27 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-179.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 19:37:26 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-179.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 19:38:04 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsl-92-252-66-63.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:48 -!- matley [n=matley@83.225.99.159] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:41:08 -!- xan-afk_ is now known as xan 19:42:38 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-179.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 19:43:42 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 19:44:41 lispm [n=joswig@e177153016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:47:46 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:39 _8david [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:55:10 chrnybo [n=user@193.213.23.76] has joined #lisp 19:57:44 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 20:01:15 -!- schoppenhauer [n=schoppen@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:04:46 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:04:53 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:05:11 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:05:20 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 20:07:43 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCBE75.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:32 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:13:51 I have found my little gensyms 20:14:15 -!- Krystof has set mode -o Krystof 20:15:14 seamus-android [n=user@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust124.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:38 -!- seamus-android [n=user@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust124.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19:52 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:37 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:20:49 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:26:12 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:26:23 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:27:04 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 20:28:01 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4599.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 20:36:12 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:36:41 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsl-92-252-66-63.dip.osnanet.de] has quit ["system.exit(now);"] 20:39:13 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:10 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:20 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:45:00 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:46:45 minion chant 20:46:54 oops 20:47:13 for file in obj/from-clisp-xc/src/code/*.lisp-obj; do cmp ${file} obj/from-sbcl-xc/src/code/$(basename $file); done | wc -l 20:47:14 38 20:47:42 Does sbcl on all platforms use generational gc? 20:48:02 no 20:48:22 Beket [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:48:53 Are exceptions on non-x86 platforms such as OS-x? 20:49:10 whaddaya mean non-x86? :) 20:50:09 PPC, freebsd -- non-x86_64 or non linux 20:50:40 Let me try this again. Which platforms does sbcl use something other than generational gc? 20:51:13 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit ["leaving"] 20:52:53 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:54:57 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:57:07 wgl: anything that's not ppc, x86 or x86-64 20:57:56 is there git sbcl workflow support available here? 20:59:08 I have two classes of difference with "upstream": improvements that will be committed eventually, and some infrastructural changes that make the current line of development easier but should not go anywhere near upstream 21:01:29 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:34 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:03:16 krystof: Thanks. It seems then that the 'purify' option won't buy me much if i am x86-64. 21:04:25 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-129-245.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:33 Krystof: git workflow support, how can I help you? 21:05:30 aha. Well, the situation is above: I have potential patch series (b) which is intended for upstream, but depends for its development (but not committing) on patch series (a) which breaks everything 21:06:08 I would like to be able to develop (a) and (b) and not have to untangle (b) from (a) when I want to commit to CVS 21:06:38 create a branch, commit (a), develop (b) on the same branch 21:07:07 I may wish to make changes to (a) too 21:07:27 Krystof: or you can use git-gui or git add -p to select which changes to commit and leave the rest uncommitted 21:08:22 fe[nl]ix: doing that for of the order of ~100 (b) commits sounds error-prone 21:08:25 Krystof: then commit changes that belong to (a) in separate commits and 'git rebase -i master' to reorder, unite them. 21:08:48 that's what I did for the interrupts branch 21:09:07 ok. I wondered if there was something cunning to be done with multiple branches 21:09:22 it was long work to create a meaningful history as I had to split a lot of commits first. 21:09:47 branch (a), commit (a), branch (b) from (a), develop (b); if there's an (a) commit to be made commit it to branch (a) and rebase? 21:09:52 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:10:41 but I don't want to do anything complicated like that if it's not going to work 21:10:53 -!- ivan4th [n=ivan4th@212.1.228.48] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:11:00 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 21:11:18 that would also work, but I wouldn't create two branches if I expect work on them to be parallel 21:11:43 with separate branches you have to swithc back and forth. 21:12:25 I'd create one branch, commit small things and clean history up at the end. 21:12:33 ok 21:12:34 thanks 21:12:36 Krystof: or you could use a single branch + git stash 21:12:37 Or maybe even during development to keep sanity. 21:13:02 This is only level 1 support, I have no experience with git stash :-) 21:13:30 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:13:40 Is there a function which does this? (pathname-directory* "/path1/path2/file") ; => "/path1/path2/" 21:13:52 directory-namestring 21:14:01 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:10 Krystof: oh, yeah, thanks! 21:14:22 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:16:55 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 21:19:07 Is there a way to back trace errors with hunchentoot 1.0.0? It seems like *show-lisp-backtraces-p* disappeared. 21:20:45 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4599.adsl.enternet.hu] has left #lisp 21:23:45 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsl-92-252-66-63.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:25:06 francogrex [n=franco@91.180.186.219] has joined #lisp 21:26:16 tomoyuki28jp: take a look at the mailing list archive; this has turned up a few times 21:26:42 rsynnott: I see, thanks for the info. 21:26:51 -!- ams [n=ams@gnu/inetutils/ams] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:27:19 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6FB0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 21:27:22 *luis* grumbles. 21:27:32 Multithreading is hard. I'm going home. 21:29:39 No screwing of anyone? 21:31:41 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:57 hi all; is there like a reference on all the type of declrations possible in CL (like simple-vector, fixnum etc); the hyperspecs under declarations do not list all the types 21:32:40 francogrex, you mean like (declare (type (foo bar))) things? 21:33:11 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:33:27 yes 21:33:43 a list of all possible types 21:33:59 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:33:59 that depends a lot on what you've loaded though 21:33:59 or foo 21:34:09 <_3b> clhs 4.2.3 21:34:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/04_bc.htm 21:34:16 i mean, there're all the types in the CL spec, and there're all the types in your 3rd party libs etc 21:34:28 seamus-android [n=user@cpc3-brig3-0-0-cust124.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:35 <_3b> that lists some, but you can define more 21:34:44 the type page refers to "type-specifier", which says this: 21:35:27 oh. let me kick my machine a bit, and i'll actually paste the pit (it's from 26_glo_t.htm at any rate) 21:35:57 type specifier n. an expression that denotes a type. ``The symbol random-state, the list (integer 3 5), the list (and list (not null)), and the class named standard-class are type specifiers.'' 21:36:36 i just found out tonight that sbcl doesn't appreciate LIST being used as a type-specifier :) 21:36:41 ok so they can all be used as (declare (type (foo bar))) to optimize code? 21:36:48 -!- sreeram [n=sreeram@122.164.255.147] has quit [] 21:36:50 frank_s: How so? 21:37:01 it says "bad thing to be a type specifier" 21:37:02 <_3b> not all of them will optimize anything 21:37:03 : exactly what i noticed too!! 21:37:37 frank_s: What's "it" and what's the "thing"? 21:37:40 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:37:43 -!- ejs [n=eugen@133-104-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:38:07 -!- Beket [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:38:09 i'm just grepping my slime-repl quickly 21:38:46 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:48 francogrex: Notice that inserting declarations randomly will in general not result in faster code. In fact, it can easily result in /slower/ code. 21:39:01 Depending on your implementation 21:39:15 HG` [n=wells@203-109-202-78.static.ihug.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:07 : noted thanks 21:40:42 does the syntax necessarily have to be (declare (type (foo bar))) or could it be just (declare (foo bar))? 21:40:55 <_3b> depends on foo 21:41:17 francogrex: (declare (type (foo bar))) is already malformed 21:41:17 like (declare (simple-vector vec)) 21:41:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77733 21:41:53 apparently i'm incapable of reading a form tonight, or i'd have pastebotted this properly 21:42:19 : don't use "type" then 21:42:24 declare it directly as list 21:43:29 so (declare (list cl-invoice::items)) in my case? 21:43:36 (declare (list lst))? 21:43:45 try that 21:44:00 (declare (list items)) 21:44:22 frank_s: (declare (type list foo bar)) 21:44:58 what is foo in this case? 21:45:08 variable bindings 21:45:12 <_3b> or maybe i'm confused, and TYPE is always optional... can't find anything limiting it 21:45:40 _3b: (declare (foo v1 v2)) is a synonym to (declare (type foo v1 v2)) if FOO is a type-specifier 21:45:48 type's not optional when type specifier is not a symbol 21:46:04 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCBE75.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 21:46:33 ejs [n=eugen@133-104-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:33 <_3b> stassats`: ah, that sounds like it, happen to know where in the spec it says that? 21:46:40 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0F3A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:51 stassats`: No it should be synonymous for arbitrary type specs 21:47:00 clhs 3.3.3.1 21:47:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_cca.htm 21:47:38 <_3b> ok, i was probably confusing it with LOOP then 21:49:31 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-188-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:49:41 i clearly seem to remember, that there was something about symbols... but where 21:50:04 HG`` [n=wells@203-109-202-78.static.ihug.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:37 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:51:34 -!- ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@88-108-126-11.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:52:03 frank_s: If you use Slime, and the slime-fancy contrib, you should get arglist information for (declare (type 21:52:16 ah right, ok: (declare (type list items)) is the way to go; and i guess that makes sense, doesn't it, since list is a special operator: (declare (type (list items))) is really (declare (type (items))) 21:52:43 tcr yeah i think i just misread the clhs, and clisp lets the issue slide 21:52:43 You're confused 21:53:05 it could well be! 21:53:20 I don't know where you took the terminology special operator from, but a special operator is something else entirely 21:53:38 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-140.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 21:53:45 in (declare (type (list items))) the (list items) would be taken as a compound type-specifier 21:53:45 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-185-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:56 ok, i found where i got my confusion, from the glossary 21:54:01 bytecolor [n=user@216.190.22.200] has joined #lisp 21:54:45 now why did i think that PCL referred to list as a special operator? anyway, that would be a memory boop on my part 21:55:20 esp when p20 says "with the LIST function" 21:56:31 "compound type specifier" would be something like (integer 3 5) (from the glossary entry) ? 21:57:16 Yes. There is no compound type-specifier form for LIST, though 21:57:22 m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.222] has joined #lisp 21:57:48 there is for CONS 21:58:18 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host179-131-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 21:58:50 http://www.bu.edu/cc/support/software/programming/lisp/allegro/ansicl/subsecti/typespec.htm 21:59:24 -!- HG` [n=wells@203-109-202-78.static.ihug.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:59:48 that's got a list of "standardized compound type specifier names" 21:59:56 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-238-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 22:00:39 clhs 4.2.3 22:00:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/04_bc.htm 22:01:21 that'll be the place! 22:02:01 well, thanks for the help tcr, francogrex, _3b, stassats`! 22:02:25 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D5B7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:04:07 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.13] has joined #lisp 22:06:06 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsl-92-252-66-63.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:06:17 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195.50.207.35] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:06:47 CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsl-92-252-32-61.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:07:31 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:07:41 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:08:39 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:42 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:15:34 mad_muppet [n=pure@219-89-146-156.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:18:29 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:18:37 -!- m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.222] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:22:00 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:07 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:26:05 ivan4th [n=ivan4th@212.1.228.48] has joined #lisp 22:27:05 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 22:27:39 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:27:57 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:32:35 -!- mad_muppet [n=pure@219-89-146-156.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:41:03 What is the reason that xref information is not collected for sbcl itself? Is there a technical obstacle? 22:42:06 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:42:07 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:34 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-96-171.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:47:08 size? 22:48:49 I wish it could be stored in a file, and loaded in optionally 22:51:33 spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has joined #lisp 22:51:59 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:52:06 shizzy0 [n=shane@c-76-105-6-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:02 Beket [n=rty@ppp206-239.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:57:45 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483E84B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:59:58 oudeis [n=oudeis@80.250.159.240] has joined #lisp 23:02:02 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:42 ferada` [n=user@e179238000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:10:43 -!- ferada` [n=user@e179238000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:11:46 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 23:16:11 -!- sohail is now known as Upgrayedd 23:16:33 -!- Upgrayedd [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:17:28 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:24:08 (loop repeat 10 collect (random 1.0)) collects 10 randoms into a list. How to collect directly from the loop into a vector? 23:25:05 (map-into (make-array 10) (lambda () (random 1.0))) 23:25:06 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 23:25:30 damn, /me lost because of make-sequence 23:25:59 -!- ferada [n=user@e179237204.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:26:05 -!- CallToPower [n=CallToPo@xdsl-92-252-32-61.dip.osnanet.de] has quit ["system.exit(now);"] 23:28:54 Thanks, it works but a lot of boxed regions 23:28:58 pkhuong: clever 23:29:09 francogrex: specialise the destination vector. 23:29:27 dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-64-125-73.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:32 ok 23:31:26 -!- ejs [n=eugen@133-104-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:31:33 Hrm, this smells like a bug... process-type-decl takes a lexenv as second argument, but its definition contains a reference to *lexenv* 23:32:54 -!- francogrex [n=franco@91.180.186.219] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:37:20 WDC: dns issue 23:37:29 sorry 23:38:25 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-170.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:39:33 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:40:04 -!- Abelian [n=Abelian@yax.org.uk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:42:51 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:53 -!- LaGaVuLiN [n=lagavuli@bl4-141-201.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [] 23:50:35 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF09E3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:50:40 -!- bytecolor [n=user@216.190.22.200] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:51:03 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:02 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:53:53 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-10-201.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:54:00 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 23:54:20 I have gotten a question regarding the way of getting slot value. http://paste.lisp.org/display/77735 23:54:47 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:54:56 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:55:16 <_3b> why not just initialize it to nil? 23:55:47 _3b: Do you guys usually set initial value for all slots? 23:56:22 <_3b> i would, or else i'd expect the error if uninitialized was meaningful 23:56:39 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@nttkyo036048.tkyo.nt.ngn.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Instain to the do way"] 23:57:11 _3b: I see. I understand what you mean. 23:57:49 <_3b> though something like that slot-value* with a more meaningful name might be useful in the second case 23:58:48 _3b: thanks for your advice. 23:59:59 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]