00:02:26 hefner, use Scheme! 00:02:26 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.151.165] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:08:23 -!- philipp [n=philipp@94-168.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:09:57 thanks, but no thanks. 00:10:29 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-44-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 00:10:35 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Client Quit] 00:10:37 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:10:41 or dylan, heh 00:11:08 what's good about common lisp? 00:12:00 what's good about scheme? 00:12:41 anyway, common lisp has SBCL. 00:12:49 what's good about Common Lisp and Scheme is that they inspired the creation of Dylan 00:12:56 :-) 00:13:22 so it's just the matter of having an efficient compiler? 00:13:27 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:13:40 if I gave you an efficient compiler for Scheme, Factor, or whatever, you'd drop SBCL? 00:13:43 and CL? 00:13:57 -!- guenther__ [n=guenther@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:14:32 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:14:54 -!- catface [n=email@93-97-25-170.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 00:15:05 rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 00:15:06 well, there's momentum to consider. no point throwing everything away for a small improvement. Also, Factor is getting really close, but once the novelty wears off, the language makes me want to stab a screwdriver into my eye socket. 00:15:31 hefner, whoa, that bad? what makes it so? 00:16:09 and with, say, CL syntactic/semantic frontends for PLT, you could have your cake w/o throwing away anything. 00:16:18 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-142-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 00:16:40 -!- borism__ [n=boris@195-50-205-214-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:18:28 six months out of date with Factor developments, so I won't comment on the environment, but after having written a bit, my impression is that stack code is painful to debug and not worth the trouble 00:18:49 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:19:21 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:19:41 more painful than lisp code? 00:19:42 it certainly looks small and cute, and there's a delightful novelty in plugging together combinators which doesn't advance you toward getting something done at all 00:21:22 *Fare* is refactoring xcvb for multiple BUILD.lisp files, and slowly getting somewhere 00:21:46 now for debugging the path searching mechanism... yikes 00:22:09 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-44-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:22:13 is CL making your life difficult? 00:23:21 as compared to what? 00:23:25 yes and no. 00:23:35 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 00:24:10 *Fare* just exchanged a use of change-class by a purer consing of new object 00:24:25 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-4-158.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:24:47 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:50 I mean, with a better system, I wouldn't have to write xcvb at all 00:25:03 how much better? 00:25:17 SSC 00:25:43 scc 00:25:45 lots better (: 00:26:05 evening, fare (: 00:26:11 the Haskell guys look like they have something 00:26:14 antifuchs, hi! 00:26:26 antifuchs, what are you hacking on these days? 00:26:42 OMake looks mighty good, too 00:26:52 maybe I should just have an OMake backend 00:27:24 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:27:48 mostly ruby/rails stuff at the moment. brief moments of joy include fixing memleaks in the reprap host software (which incidentally is a text editor extension in the emacs spirit) (-: 00:28:39 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 00:29:31 what's reprap? 00:30:11 http://reprap.org/ 00:30:14 indeed 00:30:15 fun thing 00:30:19 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:30:20 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:31:00 very useful thing, if your dishwasher's rotary control just broke, and the dishwasher is a 15 years old no-name model that still works better than anything else I've ever used (-: 00:31:12 I had seen another, more expensive machine like that which supported different materials and had been already successfully hacked into supporting two heads 00:31:30 the fab@home thing, maybe? 00:31:34 ah yes 00:31:44 but it can't make its own spare parts (: 00:32:14 antifuchs: reprap still requires some parts to be made by another machine 00:32:23 how do you get a good model of the broken part? 00:32:36 and it isn't already available to me, so hah. I get to design a 3d model (and debug my view of coordinate systems and geometries), fix realtime software that is actually an emacs mode, and have lots of fun all around (-: 00:32:39 Fare: try to stick it together + common sense :) 00:32:43 and what about the solidity of the replacement piece? 00:32:52 -!- jfactor [n=john@c-71-230-33-184.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:32:56 p_l, I mean, is there a "scan" function? 00:33:09 Fare: If you have the money for 3d scanner... 00:33:12 it's ABS (the stuff that lego is made of), so it's pretty stable as long as temperatures remain below 70C 00:33:49 the replacement a couple of cylinders XORd with a couple of cubes. looks better than the original, even (-: 00:35:23 *p_l* always freaks out at people writing smileys upside-down ;-) 00:35:31 the next step is semi-automating the building of metal pieces from such designs 00:36:04 Fare: and adding an autonomical assembly robot 00:36:05 "first, make an abs piece, mold it, create the metal piece, finish it" 00:36:19 jfactor [n=john@c-71-230-33-184.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:49 right. couple of experiments are going into extruding solder for crude circuit board printing (: 00:37:02 also, chocolate. 00:37:13 -!- MrSpec_ [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["BB!"] 00:37:42 extruding chocolate to make chocolate sculptures? 00:38:00 I think the idea was cupcake frosting, but yeah (-: 00:38:31 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:39:32 xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 00:39:52 can you tell we're having enormous amounts of fun here (-: 00:40:00 indeed 00:42:30 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 00:42:37 *p_l* won't be satisfied though till he can make spare parts for *himself* 00:43:24 npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 00:45:17 in the future, the TV show will be called The $750 Man, and it'll be an ad channel selling fabs. 00:46:36 antifuchs: I hope to move beyond such mortal things as money :) 00:47:23 right, I hope the S with the vertical strikethrough and TV channels will be a thing of the dark ages in the post-scarcity future 00:47:24 p_l: not possible to move beyond it, though you could fall within it. 00:47:40 I mean, if I can use nanofabs to both tear stuff to basic materials and make new parts... I think I'll just go to space and get some asteroid 00:47:59 where "I" is variable, see various SF books (: 00:48:08 p_l: you'll find that there are finitely many asteroids 00:48:27 and that some are being defended by swarms of bots. 00:48:44 Fare: And that the guy who is willing to use a Von Neumann swarm *and* merge with AI can have upper hand :) 00:49:14 or turn the universe into paper clips. 00:49:27 Fare: true 00:49:47 right; I'm done immanentizing the escaton for today. will sleep the sleep of the posthuman now. have fun (-: 00:49:52 ok, what's a quick and dirty CL unit test framework that I may use for xcvb? 00:49:59 "eschaton" damnit 00:50:02 assert 00:50:14 hefner, fair enough 00:50:23 the same goes for the other side (and is partly the reason why I find it appealing to go far from earth once we get nanotech far enough to initiate gray goo) 00:51:36 but all that is in far future, now I'm feeling the urge to sit down and code a music player because of lacking anything usable 00:51:57 p_l: depressing, isn't it? 00:52:06 p_l: funnily I was thinking the same this evening. 00:52:07 code me one while you're at it. 00:52:09 -!- jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:52:26 p_l: I'd need the music player to scroll the lyrics at the same time it plays a mp3... 00:53:07 But instead I started to transcribe to CLOS the metamodel of an UML agloo. 00:53:18 s/agloo/oo case tool/ 00:54:04 *p_l* is gonna use mplayer as backend 00:54:16 *pjb`* thinks it's a good choice. 00:54:27 pjb`: agloo sounds better for connotations with "ugly" 00:54:34 :-) 00:54:54 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:54:56 It comes from French for Atelier de Génie Logiciel Orienté Objet. 00:55:23 Sounds like glou glou glou which is the onomatopea for drinking or drowning. 00:56:11 pjb`: well it doesn't remind me of those sounds but I'm no native french speaker :D 00:56:27 *p_l* haven't touched french for 7 years now 00:56:49 You must need some holidays... 00:57:13 no, I need a honest-to-god sysadmin job 00:57:30 with big iron stuff that requires me to crawl under raised floor 00:57:36 I miss that 00:58:55 better than arguing with student monitoring 00:59:42 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:01:40 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:04:52 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:05:10 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 01:09:54 -!- kidd1 [n=kidd@5.Red-79-150-114.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:11:20 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:11:59 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 01:13:21 kidd1 [n=kidd@80.31.143.142] has joined #lisp 01:17:32 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCF250.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:52 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:19:38 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 01:19:55 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 01:20:01 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 01:24:16 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:30:49 -!- diracdelta [n=diracdel@c-24-6-88-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:33:57 diracdelta [n=diracdel@c-67-180-160-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:25 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 01:37:26 Lispster [n=jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:42 I want to go back to 1970's and reshape the lisp design to use ampersands instead of parentheses. 01:39:23 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-039faf01dadd96bc] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:39:51 urk 01:40:33 btw, how geeky will it be to ask family for an Alpha DS10 as birthday present? 01:41:33 depends on the family 01:42:34 hefner: they will say that I'm grabbing ancient stuff again 01:43:54 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A6D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:44:20 I wonder if I might get it bought by computing society for uni, though. 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M-. .. ah, yes, i see .. good .. then press Q --> all emacs frames are messed up ... "EXPORT SOME-SYM causes name-conf.." blabla .. ahok, 0: resolve-conflict, REPL: "select a symbol to be made acc.." .. *presses a number and enter*, --> all emacs frames are messed up .. *sigh* 06:28:31 weird slime changes .. it's been like this for quite some time now x) 06:28:47 Trickster [i=Trickste@84.42.57.231] has joined #lisp 06:30:30 jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:31 since around november 2008 06:31:31 irc lisp channel | google : Did you mean: irc list channel ? 06:31:33 lol 06:33:30 H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 06:34:19 ASau` [n=user@host73-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 06:41:22 -!- Trickster [i=Trickste@84.42.57.231] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:41:35 Trickster [i=Trickste@84.42.57.231] has joined #lisp 06:44:05 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:44:55 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-069-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:58 Hello 06:52:22 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-31-105.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:09 -!- saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:58:48 npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 07:02:28 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:04:24 -!- yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:04:51 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.3in.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:08:57 -!- phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:08:58 -!- gio123 [n=gio123@host-193-186-177-164.heimbau.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [] 07:09:15 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:24 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@hygiene.bl0rg.net] has quit ["ircII EPIC4-2.6 -- Are we there yet?"] 07:09:38 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:09:47 -!- stepnem_ [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [No route to host] 07:09:47 -!- dialtone_ is now known as dialtone 07:11:43 H4ns1 [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 07:13:31 -!- H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 07:13:34 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 07:13:48 -!- philipp_ [n=philipp@143-81.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 07:18:21 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:19:56 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-156-21.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:31:41 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:36:26 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 07:37:53 ejs [n=eugen@181-20-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:49 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:38:56 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:44 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 07:41:52 good morning 07:51:51 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has joined #lisp 07:56:18 hello mvilleneuve 07:58:38 yhara_ [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #lisp 07:59:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@181-20-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:59:14 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-069-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:59:21 Beket [n=stathis@ppp11-104.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 07:59:42 -!- yhara_ [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has left #lisp 08:01:29 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:01:38 mega1 [n=mega@pool-006d0.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:02:50 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:03:22 hello 08:06:17 when I run ./clbuild check . It's warning: Cannot find executable for implementation sbcl. why? 08:06:41 rlpowell_ [n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 08:06:46 I have already installed sbcl + emacs + slim 08:07:23 vng: is sbcl in your $PATH ? 08:07:28 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:07:47 Ah, let me check 08:07:49 thanks 08:08:59 sbcl is not in my $PATH 08:09:10 how do i set it in my $PATH 08:09:28 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:09:30 I'm new to linux and lisp 08:09:43 -!- rlpowell [n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:11:02 vng: something like this: export PATH=$PATH:/path/to/sbcl 08:11:28 vng: so if you simply type sbcl in a shell, you get an error? 08:12:26 I know my trouble 08:12:53 mvilleneuve: thank you so much 08:13:10 vng: no problem 08:14:02 I haven't installed sbcl+emacs+slim yet 08:14:21 ah 08:14:26 because I use on 2 machine 08:14:58 so I didn't remember I had installed them or not 08:15:01 :) 08:15:08 ok :) 08:15:16 many thanks 08:16:08 -!- yhara [n=yhara@raichu.3in.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:18:01 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:24:39 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:30:08 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:30:42 I have another problem 08:31:02 when i run ./clbuild check. It says: Warning: Cannot find a working installation of hg! 08:31:18 what is hg? 08:33:15 mercurial. only weblocks uses it, so don't worry about this unless you want weblocks. 08:34:56 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-10420.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 08:35:18 ah 08:38:00 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 08:39:46 I have installed clbuild. How do I use mcclim 08:46:34 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:47:16 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:47:53 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-10420.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:49:23 tombom [i=tombom@82.26.195.50] has joined #lisp 08:50:19 -!- vsync [n=vsync@220-27.202-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:50:25 vsync [n=vsync@220-27.202-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:51:58 is good start would be: clbuild install mcclim; clbuild run demodemo 08:52:58 once you get tired of clim, try clbuild run qt-tutorial-14 ;-P 08:53:16 thanks, I'm reading tutorial 08:53:37 lichtblau: thank you 08:57:05 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 09:00:50 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-13607.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 09:02:18 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 09:02:21 lichtblau: can i do : clbuild install commonqt ? 09:04:11 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:04:41 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 09:08:01 -!- diracdelta [n=diracdel@c-67-180-160-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:13:12 r0bby_ [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 09:16:20 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:16:40 lichtblau: tired of clim? 09:17:10 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@y192027.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:17:44 I like McCLIM (it the sense of CLIM-CLX + pixie-look anyway), because it's the only pure Lisp widget library today. 09:17:48 nathanael [n=nathanae@vpn508-081.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:18:00 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:18:47 jestocost [n=cmell@x250021.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 09:18:56 'twould be nice if it worked a bit better 09:19:10 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 09:19:33 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:19:47 -!- nathanael [n=nathanae@vpn508-081.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 09:21:23 Qt actually seems old-fashioned compared to Silverlight, JavaFX, Adobe, etc. 09:21:58 old-fashioned in what way? 09:22:36 it has a consistent look and some actual widgets? 09:22:55 soon clim will be fashionable again! 09:23:09 And is native and beats every other toolkit in terms of drawing speed? ;) 09:24:08 The single point of failure with Qt is it's signal/slot mechanism 09:24:15 yeah, I think at the heart of the issue is that libraries like Qt, Swing (et al.) don't give graphics designers the flexibility they need for fancy looks. And those are the people who decide the look of applications, so I don't think their opinion is to be discounted entirely. 09:25:00 lichtblau: Qt lets you style your application with stylesheets extremely easily. And you can overtake the complete drawing mechanism if you want even more flexibility 09:25:14 And this with a consistent, good API design 09:25:25 just like clim, then 09:25:39 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 09:26:45 there's also a technical side to it. Good 2D capabilities (like cairo and flash, with transformations etc.) need to be integrated into the toolkit closely. Video playing support (!). Really good HTML rendering support (the webkit revolution). Fancy 3D effects. 09:27:07 wartalker [n=wartalke@210.51.173.167] has joined #lisp 09:27:57 daniel: RubyQt can connect signals to blocks. Shouldn't be too hard to do the same in Lisp for local functions. 09:28:01 Jabberwock [n=Tumnus_@port-13607.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 09:28:03 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@port-13607.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:28:33 lichtblau: Yes, but the underlying C++ mechanism sucks badly 09:28:42 i mit-scheme debug mode, c will print the enviroment, but if some identifier's value is too long, it will print ...., how can i do to print the full information 09:28:50 lichtblau: By the way, I've thought about Lisp-bindings to Qt before, even did some fundamental work 09:28:58 <_3b> yay, (tagbody (+ 1 (go 2) 3) 2) compiles to valid code now 09:29:06 *_3b* checks off another item on the list 09:29:34 lichtblau: What IMHO should be done is a general C++-binder that parsers C++ headers and creates Lisp-bindings from it. Qt software uses an internal tool to do this for Java, and the C++ parser is free 09:30:19 daniel: what kept you from finishing your bindings? I couple of people seem to have tried, and I was surprised that I couldn't find any released code that gets it right. 09:31:12 I didn't run into any problems, the concepts are in place. I'm very time-constrained on this because of work and other free-time activities 09:31:13 Is smoke good general enough for you? I like its approach a lot, and it already supports all the KDE stuff, too. 09:31:34 Dunno, never heard of smoke 09:32:29 smoke is a part of kdebindings. It's a Perl script that parses the Qt headers and autogenerates C++ code that subclasses everything vigorously. 09:32:58 Damn 09:33:04 Why doesn't perl finally die, please? :( 09:33:10 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:33:18 But why map C++ to C++?! 09:33:21 So when CommonQT creates a QPushButton, it actually a function pointer listed in a smoke table that calls the constructor for x_QPushButton, a subclass of QPushButton. And that subclass allows Lisp to intercept method calls, etc. 09:33:41 "... CALLS a function pointer ...", I mean 09:34:09 The correct (tm) way imho would be to create C-bindings 09:34:25 Because, with those C++ classes, you still have a problem to call these from Lisp 09:34:25 -!- nurv101` [n=askmefor@cidhcp132.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:34:35 Or any other (scripting-) language for that matter 09:34:48 daniel: have you looked at how CommonQt does it? It's extremely easy. 09:35:15 perl will never die for the same reason as fortran will never die 09:35:44 I even read about the perl-guys creating a virtual machine for perl that is supposed to host other languages, too 09:36:20 I mean, W-T-F? They could just use mono or any other platform that already exists instead of reinventing the wheel... 09:36:36 It's really sad that this always happens, imho 09:37:23 lichtblau: http://daniel-albuschat.blogspot.com/2007/12/c-glue.html 09:37:33 If people like working on something, let them. It's not like they are obligated to invest their time in the solution someone else thinks is preferable. 09:37:59 That's the rough concept I was targetting. I find the C++ -> C -> Any other language approach best suited, because it's generic 09:38:06 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:36 lichtblau: Of course, but I find it sad to see how much energy is just misdirected there. If it was bundled, something far bigger, better could be created 09:39:00 I too often that if only people worked on what I think they should, my life would be easier 09:39:10 ^ think 09:39:32 Actually the perl vm doesn't even remotely touch it, so it has no impact on my life ;) 09:39:38 *touch me 09:42:36 daniel: also, that VM apparently began as a joke between two devs... and is completely unlike both JVM and Mono 09:42:44 dan_b: so, how about a clx release? :-) 09:43:38 -!- wartalker [n=wartalke@210.51.173.167] has left #lisp 09:43:45 p_l: It began as a joke and is going to be the base of the new perl generation now? 09:44:11 daniel: we are talking about swiss army chainsaw, don't forget 09:44:13 afk 09:44:51 nice ;) 09:45:47 A friend of mine played Perl golf the other day. 09:45:59 He asked me for help as he couldn't find the bug in his code. 09:46:17 As it was golf, it was so heavily compressed that even he couldn't read it, although he wrote it. 09:46:36 perl golf? 09:47:06 daniel: trying to write a program with as few character as possible 09:47:08 daniel: Yes. You get a programming assignment and you need to write the smallest program possible that solves it. 09:47:17 http://www.xs4all.nl/~thospel/golf/rules.html 09:47:35 Yepp, that's the one. 09:48:03 Why don't we start a "nice, cool and readable programming contest"? 09:48:26 Actually, that's really a good idea 09:48:34 But it's kinda boring with Lisp 09:48:41 True 09:48:56 <_3b> we play that game every day when people paste code :) 09:49:10 But it's amazing how many obfuscated ____ contests there are. 09:49:27 <_3b> golf/obfuscated are both good learning exercises though 09:49:28 And how many people still think that writing in an obfuscated manner shows off their skills. 09:49:47 _3b: Learning what exactly? How to write unmaintainable code? 09:50:02 <_3b> edge cases of the language, debugging unmaintainable code, etc :) 09:50:11 Jabberwock: learning the subtilities of the language 09:50:22 and, it helps understanding what 'maintainable' means :) 09:50:52 danlei`` [n=user@pD9E2C5A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:59 koollman: The latter would assume that the people doing that would refrain from golfing in their everyday coding. My experience shows that the exact opposite is the case. 09:51:10 that is, unlike your common programs that become obscure to you after some months, it is obscure, even to you, when you finished the first line 09:51:15 This is just my impression, but I think most programmers that are good at obfuscating use quite strange constructs in productive code, too 09:51:31 daniel: Yepp. 09:51:33 Why else would they come to know them? :) 09:51:42 Exactly 09:51:51 <_3b> arguably lisp programmers use 'quite strange constructs' by most coders standards :) 09:52:06 it's great to be amongst such non-judgemental people 09:52:31 (FORMAT T "(~@{~w ~}~3:*'~@{~w~^ ~})" 'FORMAT T "(~@{~w ~}~3:*'~@{~w~^ ~})") 09:53:28 Krystof: Ok, good point :) 09:54:14 I guess even normal perl code beats the crap out of this one ;-D 09:54:54 daniel: Part of my job is to maintain an old Perl codebase. Na, it can look quite good if you adhere to certain conventions 09:54:55 guenther__ [n=guenther@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 09:58:27 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [No route to host] 09:59:09 oh, clever. RubyQt actually does it properly. They can customize the garbage collection process. Apparently you can make a Ruby object referencing a C struct, and when garbage collection inspects that Ruby object, it calls a C function that gets to look at the struct to find references hidden there. 10:00:37 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp11-104.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["reboot"] 10:00:52 Is that completely automated? 10:06:07 -!- danlei` [n=user@pD9E2C933.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 10:06:43 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:06:58 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:08 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 10:10:05 lichtblau: clearly we need a non-trivial-garbage library 10:12:00 we already have plenty of non-trivial garbage 10:12:14 ... called "non-trivial" because it is non-trivial to implement when the underlying features are provided by no CL implementation whatsoever yet 10:12:47 bet you could do it in sbcl with a small amount of runtime patching 10:12:59 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:01 dan_b: definitely, should be easy. 10:13:26 so far this thing is portable to anything with cffi support though. Would be a pity to make it SBCl specific. 10:14:28 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 10:14:38 how many implementations have before gc hooks? 10:16:06 -!- vng [n=vuong@222.253.84.174] has left #lisp 10:17:47 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:18:39 -!- Trickster [i=Trickste@84.42.57.231] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:18:51 Trickster [i=Trickste@84.42.57.231] has joined #lisp 10:19:49 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:21:15 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:22:10 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 10:23:17 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 10:26:45 |Trickster| [i=Trickste@84.42.57.231] has joined #lisp 10:29:57 -!- Trickster [i=Trickste@84.42.57.231] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:35:52 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:37:51 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [No route to host] 10:47:10 lichtblau: not even sbcl has before-gc hooks, iirc 10:48:15 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:53:47 right 10:54:03 and no reliable after-gc hooks either 10:55:59 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:02 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:04:06 Beket [n=stathis@ppp11-104.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:04:41 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:50 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A4CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:17:01 josemanuel [n=josemanu@86.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:18:25 Krystof: right, but I can add the Ruby trick to SBCL. I was thinking that CommonQt could work with #+lisp-has-the-ruby-style-extension ... #+lisp-has-before-gc-hooks #-(or ...) oops 11:18:39 But on second thought I only care about SBCL anyway. 11:21:16 -!- killkernel [n=killkern@relay2.gs.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:21:31 *lichtblau* can't decide whether to bring a laptop to ILC 11:21:34 I like hacking during boring talks, but then I could also just leave, see the city instead, and save myself a little baggage. 11:22:47 elias` [n=me@resnet-pat-254.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:23:46 you can demo stuff on it 11:32:27 it can be subject to exciting security checks at the airport! 11:33:13 wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d814617.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 11:33:21 hi fellas 11:33:27 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 11:35:42 may sound stupid, but whats the right way to exit a program properly? I created an image (clisp) which runs properly but leaves me at a prompt afterwards 11:36:24 since its a cgi script, It would be nice if I could supress quit messages like clisp's "Bye." 11:36:25 (EXT:QUIT) 11:36:46 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:37:27 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.133.91] has joined #lisp 11:37:48 there might be a "batch mode" or similar 11:37:51 check the man page 11:37:53 wakeup: did you read clisp docs? 11:38:05 -q will make clisp reasobaly quiet 11:38:25 mathrick: not really, I am sorry 11:38:37 thanks so far 11:41:14 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:43:07 -!- H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:45:34 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:48:44 -!- rdieter [n=rdieter@fedora/rdieter] has left #lisp 11:49:38 uh-huh, can I introduce a shadowing definition of a symbol that's currently imported without unusing the originating package? 11:50:15 yes 11:50:26 how would I go about doing that? 11:51:04 just (shadow 'foo) leaves me with the imported symbol in place 11:51:04 use unimport / shadow 11:51:15 probably 11:51:39 UNIMPORT doesn't exist, SHADOW doesn't work 11:51:57 unintern 11:52:10 ah, unintern takes a package too 11:55:04 for the record, for me: 11:55:10 (defpackage "FOO" (:use "CL")) 11:55:12 (in-package "FOO") 11:55:15 (shadow '+) 11:55:22 (eql '+ 'cl:+) => nil 11:56:23 <|Trickster|> (shadow '+) '+ refers to foo::+? 11:56:48 |Trickster|: no, it refers to any symbol names "+" 11:56:57 it needs a string designator, not a symbol 11:56:58 <|Trickster|> hmmm 11:57:04 <|Trickster|> its intresting 11:57:06 because you're asking it to create a new symbol for you 11:57:09 *named 11:58:07 <|Trickster|> i not well understand this moment about "shadow" at all 11:58:43 <|Trickster|> it's useful? 11:59:44 yes 11:59:54 read up on packages and symbols to understand 11:59:57 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 12:00:11 -!- alobar [n=alobar@student166-105.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:00:18 <|Trickster|> it's blow my mind away 12:00:21 <|Trickster|> ) 12:00:25 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-46-31-101.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:01:05 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 12:01:09 |Trickster|: http://www.flownet.com/ron/packages.pdf 12:01:38 <|Trickster|> im not idiot ^-) 12:01:59 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-67-89.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:39 <|Trickster|> thx of course 12:05:15 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:06:34 H4ns [n=hans@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:40 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:22 LostMonarch [n=roby@host66-178-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:10:31 <|Trickster|> lisp ide with something similar to MS visualstudio intellisence? 12:10:55 -!- wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d814617.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["leaving"] 12:12:37 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:57 wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-145-79.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:48 I hope not (as far as the more intrusive features of IS are concerned) 12:14:49 <|Trickster|> such as? 12:15:08 such as slowing down my typing with unwelcome completion lists 12:15:23 you can disable/ignore those 12:15:24 <|Trickster|> disable it 12:15:33 I know 12:15:47 some people have gotten in the groove of using it :P 12:16:05 <|Trickster|> im asking 'couse i writing my IDE for lisp :-) 12:16:16 <|Trickster|> and i want to know what already done 12:16:24 have you used slime? 12:16:31 see emacs :P 12:16:34 <|Trickster|> emcasish 12:16:42 <|Trickster|> ( 12:16:48 <|Trickster|> i dont like emacs 12:17:02 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-146-52.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:17:44 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:18:11 <|Trickster|> the problem is that there is no concept of AST exists 12:18:16 <|Trickster|> for example 12:18:22 <|Trickster|> and #. syntax 12:19:16 yeah. lots of messy details that are handled by existing software that you don't like, so you'll just ignore those in your own new shiny software 12:19:39 then you'll wonder why nobody uses your new shiny software :) 12:19:50 <|Trickster|> aaa 12:19:56 <|Trickster|> y so wrong 12:20:19 <|Trickster|> "details that are handled by existing software" 12:20:41 are you trying to write a structure editor, then? 12:20:43 <|Trickster|> just redefine some standart macros and all building will be broken 12:21:05 <|Trickster|> "structure editor" what is it? 12:21:09 fufie [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:21:25 nm, just a wrong guess 12:21:51 <|Trickster|> i working with forms 12:21:56 <|Trickster|> with marked forms 12:22:38 <|Trickster|> if someone will redefine 'read' all will be corrupted 12:23:11 <|Trickster|> i don't know how to handle this problem 12:23:30 <|Trickster|> however existing implementation working wel 12:23:35 are you sure this "problem" is in fact solvable at all? 12:23:40 <|Trickster|> no 12:23:45 <|Trickster|> but im trying 12:23:46 <|Trickster|> ) 12:24:26 <|Trickster|> it's look like "hey you dumb ass if u redefine read i shoot u" 12:24:29 I see no problem with tools giving up when you break certain conventions 12:24:31 <|Trickster|> it's not a free 12:25:33 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:54 <|Trickster|> certain conventions - i decided to use package locks 12:26:26 why would anyone want to redefine read and not expect it to cause horrlbe catastrophe 12:26:29 ? 12:26:41 <|Trickster|> im trying to be user friendly 12:26:48 <|Trickster|> f(r)iendly 12:27:05 "sure thing, here's the gun, be sure to aim down" 12:27:17 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:28:19 <|Trickster|> hmm 12:28:30 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:29:54 disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has joined #lisp 12:30:08 <|Trickster|> i just will make the public interface for my "cool-syntax-support" 12:30:12 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:31:40 <|Trickster|> another problem - if i "parse" with regular "read" this can alter the global environment 12:31:42 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:32:06 <|Trickster|> through "read-eval" 12:32:20 |Trickster|: you want a new, modular reader, and not use the one that your compiler provides 12:32:29 <|Trickster|> ok 12:32:41 <|Trickster|> what about user provided syntax? 12:32:44 |Trickster|: matrimago has written such a thing, it is gpled. if that don't bother you, you can use that. 12:33:04 <|Trickster|> i want to use my own ) 12:33:19 <|Trickster|> actual there is not only ide 12:33:24 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-172-168.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:33:24 gpl-ed? 12:33:26 <|Trickster|> interpreter and compiler too 12:33:30 not often you see gpl lisp stuff 12:33:33 |Trickster|: you will need to evaluate the user provided reader modifications so that they affect your own reader, too. 12:33:46 <|Trickster|> but 12:33:51 rsynnott: no. matimago chose gpl 12:33:54 Trickster: You can turn off #. 12:34:01 <|Trickster|> i know 12:34:17 <_3b> why stop at ide+compiler+interpreter, why not a whole new language? :) 12:34:25 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:34:43 <|Trickster|> becouse full specification needed 12:34:47 <|Trickster|> i'm lazy 12:35:23 <_3b> seems like a languaged designed for use with a smarte ditor would be easier than making CL work nicely 12:36:06 _3b: sure. that is why java exists, no? :) 12:36:08 <|Trickster|> actually im not sure for now 12:36:16 haha 12:36:17 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:36:33 <_3b> H4ns: nah, don't think java editors are nearly as smart as i'd want :) 12:37:22 <|Trickster|> so, i maintain the "shadow" reader 12:37:34 <|Trickster|> and how to solve #. for it? 12:37:46 <|Trickster|> turn off? 12:37:55 <_3b> either that or solve the halting problem 12:37:57 <|Trickster|> and maybe miss something important things 12:38:01 obey the setting of *READ-EVAL*? 12:38:08 <_3b> (or trust the user not to break it) 12:38:10 <|Trickster|> oh 12:38:28 <|Trickster|> i want to support special operators too 12:38:34 <|Trickster|> so macros welcome (( 12:38:43 <|Trickster|> horrible 12:39:01 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:39:41 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:40:21 <|Trickster|> i "parse" text with "read" and then readed form processed with some piece of eval 12:40:45 <|Trickster|> for error checking for expample 12:41:12 <|Trickster|> kill me 12:41:17 didn't you say that you use your own compiler and interpreter? i'd hack those so that they support the neccessary apis for the ide. 12:41:28 the halting problem will, why should we bother? :) 12:41:36 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087FFD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:52 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 12:41:57 <|Trickster|> the halting problem? 12:42:05 <|Trickster|> H4ns: yes my own 12:42:16 <|Trickster|> H4ns: yes some apis exists 12:42:35 <_3b> hmm, wonder if i should just name setf functions like |(setf foo)| internally 12:43:00 |Trickster|: add more. if you can write a common lisp compiler and an interpreter, you will be able to solve that problem yourself, too. 12:43:01 <|Trickster|> H4ns: its all about maintenance of the global environment 12:43:27 sweemeng [n=sweemeng@60.54.46.143] has joined #lisp 12:43:34 <|Trickster|> _3b: (setf foo) naming interseting too 12:43:42 _3b: that kind of name breaks in the presence of package renames 12:43:59 <|Trickster|> i just add another slot for symbol class 12:44:06 <|Trickster|> one slot for foo function 12:44:11 <|Trickster|> another for (setf foo) 12:44:13 blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@63.sub-70-220-179.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 12:44:18 <_3b> Krystof: true 12:44:56 <_3b> not that i have real packages yet anyway though 12:46:57 <|Trickster|> H4ns: yes u right again, but i dont want to build this things just for myself. So i ask the community :-) 12:47:42 _3b: does JS support arbitrary symbol names? I know it does unicode, but dunno about reserved chars 12:47:48 JS or AS 12:48:09 <_3b> avm2 doesn't seem particularly picky that i've seen so far 12:49:14 <_3b> lets me put 0 bytes in names if i remember right 12:49:24 -!- __``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 12:49:25 cute 12:49:56 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:50:04 _3b: so as long as you don't have to actually parse the thing as JS source, you can put whatever in the bytecode generated? 12:50:06 <_3b> conveniently it even has support for namespace+name identifiers, which is what i've been using for symbols so far 12:50:27 <_3b> unfortunately, it won't do dynamic lookup if you specify a namespace 12:50:37 <_3b> mathrick: as far as i know, yes 12:51:08 <_3b> mathrick: it stores strings as table of counted arrays, and uses indices into the table everywhere else 12:51:30 ah 12:52:31 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp11-104.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:53:50 <_3b> i guess i should figure out how dynamically loading code works, so i can decide if i actually need dynamic lookup at all 12:58:21 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 12:59:21 -!- disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:59:50 disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has joined #lisp 13:01:21 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["brb"] 13:02:13 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 13:04:38 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@68.237.103.91] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:09:21 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:11:11 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 13:13:24 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:51 a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has joined #lisp 13:17:25 dat [n=dthomp@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:15 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:41 c|mell [n=cmell@x250004.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:20:18 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:20:25 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:18 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:22:32 anyone here on OS X using sbcl? 13:22:39 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 13:23:26 is 1.0.26 failing for you or not? 13:23:31 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:41 build? tests? 13:23:56 mega1: haven't gotten round to upgrading yet 13:24:01 is it failing to build? 13:24:11 or is the binary from the site breaking? 13:24:21 rsynnott: depending on whom you ask I think 13:24:32 there are two long threads by now on sbcl-devel 13:24:59 ah 13:25:07 one for a hanging test on x86-darwin, one for a failing build (in contribs) on ppc-darwin 13:25:08 *rsynnott* will stick with current version for the time being then :) 13:25:46 jmignault [n=jmignaul@vpn.nybg.org] has joined #lisp 13:25:52 there were also reports from before 1.0.26 from slyrus and nikodemus that things are ok 13:26:19 I'd appreciate if other OS X user reported back even if it works. 13:26:24 *users 13:26:29 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-103.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:27:00 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-2.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 13:27:03 -!- sweemeng [n=sweemeng@60.54.46.143] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:27:11 <_3b> hmm, that reminds me, i should probably bug someone about fixing room again before next freeze 13:28:05 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:21 is it failing? 13:28:37 -!- npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has left #lisp 13:29:05 <_3b> sort of, it conses in a without-gc, so if you run it a bunch of times it runs out of ram 13:29:20 <_3b> (on some platforms) 13:30:27 <_3b> not as bad as it was on .25, when running it 7 times in a row would kill it, but the consing still throws off measurements 13:31:37 <_3b> sent a 1 line fix to sbcl-devel on feb23 if you want to check it in 13:34:52 -!- disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:36:43 -!- jmignault [n=jmignaul@vpn.nybg.org] has left #lisp 13:37:15 room has always been slightly unreliable 13:37:48 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@x250021.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:38:20 <_3b> yeah, but being responsible for the largest category of objects after 2 runs is a bit excessive :) 13:38:38 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:39:41 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:59 <_3b> adding a million or so bignums per run seems a bit more than 'slightly unreliable' :) 13:42:40 _3b: committed 13:42:43 segv__ [n=mb@p4FC1C91B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:43 <_3b> mega1: thanks 13:43:36 <_3b> mega1: think bignum addresses are likely to be causing problems anywhere else? 13:44:26 disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has joined #lisp 13:44:38 <_3b> never figured out exactly how the 1.0.21.32/1.0.25.9 part of the problem worked, so couldn't tell if it would affect anything else or not 13:46:59 _3b: (sap-int (%caller-pc)) conses on freebsd I guess 13:47:08 <_3b> though i guess that part didn't seem to show up in code compiled during normal use, so that might not matter anyway 13:50:37 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:51 Good afternoon. 13:57:15 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1D1CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:59:09 hello beach 14:00:13 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.162.151] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:00:23 KalifG [n=user@166.128.162.151] has joined #lisp 14:01:12 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has joined #lisp 14:05:18 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:05:54 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:06:15 tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:27 Poundily [n=jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:33 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 14:14:36 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 14:15:26 -!- Lispster [n=jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:16:26 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 14:16:53 mega1: do you have access to a darwin machine already? 14:17:14 no, the volunteers are hiding 14:17:28 mega1: if you send me your ssh pubkey, I can set you up with one on my iMac. it's i386 10.5.6 14:17:54 that would indeed be fabulous 14:19:26 sent, thanks 14:19:50 do you also have a ppc one? ;-) 14:20:17 mega1: isn't the wii a ppc too? 14:20:44 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:20:48 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:20:49 nope, sorry 14:25:27 crap, just told my friendly machead I wouldn't need a shell on his G5 for a while. 14:26:24 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:48 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 14:27:28 pkhuong: i have this g4 box connected to the net. it is used for cmucl builds, too. running 10.4. let me know if you want access 14:27:37 oops, that was for mega1 14:28:39 H4ns: yes, most definitely. Thanks. 14:29:22 FZ [n=user@unaffiliated/fz] has joined #lisp 14:33:36 -!- gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 14:36:21 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 14:38:36 -!- jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:41:24 -!- dat [n=dthomp@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:46:21 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 14:46:29 Greetings! 14:47:52 greetings, human 14:49:05 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:49:16 greetings, humanoid carbon lifeform 14:50:08 *p_l* now expects someone to turnup with response "on internet, no one knows you're an AI" 14:50:40 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:07 http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2009-03-16/ 14:53:45 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 14:54:56 dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 14:57:27 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 15:02:37 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:03:55 -!- |Trickster| [i=Trickste@84.42.57.231] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:04:08 |Trickster| [i=Trickste@84.42.57.231] has joined #lisp 15:09:14 -!- ASau` [n=user@host73-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Off!"] 15:12:11 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-146-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:15:26 rpg [n=rpg@75.146.46.193] has joined #lisp 15:16:50 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:43 milanj [n=milan@93.86.187.35] has joined #lisp 15:18:34 Check.. Check... Is this thing on? 15:19:44 ? 15:20:12 no :P 15:20:28 nobody complimented him of how clever posting that link to the comic was? 15:20:50 jsnell: Posting the link wasn't clever, the strip was, at least I thought it was. 15:21:15 *p_l* fortunately quite enjoyed his short bout of work as sysadmin 15:21:19 And slightly apropos. 15:23:14 does anyone an sbcl binary that doesn't buserror on OS X 10.4? The one in http://groups.google.com/group/sbcl-devel/browse_thread/thread/b65871c29d4eb2fc is not there anymore. 15:23:18 +have 15:23:52 mega1: does it happen directly on startup? 15:23:58 yes 15:25:15 hmm... there are build instructions for it, though 15:25:20 mega1: didn't we fix that bug with a CFLAG tweak some time ago? 15:25:59 pkhuong: yes, but the latest binary available does not have that fix 15:26:04 hmmm... at least it provided such a nice backtrace... 15:26:06 oh ok. I can build one. 15:26:14 thanks 15:26:33 x86 or x86-64? 15:27:10 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-156-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:28:15 pkhuong: sorry, it's ppc 15:31:26 -!- rpg [n=rpg@75.146.46.193] has quit [] 15:33:14 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-103-91.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:38 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:42:09 tmh: http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2009-03-16/ 15:43:23 matimago: Good link, matimago! That is hilarious. That Scott Adams is one funny dude. ;-) 15:45:37 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:45:45 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-146-52.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:45:49 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-146-52.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 15:48:17 -!- [[mark]] [n=mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has left #lisp 15:50:15 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:51:54 ?_? 15:53:19 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 15:53:50 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.133.91] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:54:24 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 15:55:26 -!- dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:55:31 cads_ [n=max@adsl-215-217-154.aep.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:55 matimago: even /fast is slow. And that's basically a single image. It's amazing. 16:03:41 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:04:38 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:59 -!- FZ [n=user@unaffiliated/fz] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:12:43 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:13:17 thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:49 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit ["leaving"] 16:17:51 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:20:40 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 16:25:57 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:24 phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 16:27:19 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:05 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 16:29:10 disappearedng [n=disappea@th236042.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 16:29:12 Hey everyone 16:30:09 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:30:59 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:31:59 howdy. 16:32:04 -!- a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:34:26 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has left #lisp 16:34:45 <_death> mega1: btw did you look into that variable clobbering bug? for the moment I reverted to using 1.0.25.7 (that bug is very scary) 16:35:13 _death: I haven't yet, sorry. 16:36:03 bugs bugs bugs 16:36:27 I am scared by the handler-bind-eats-stack bug 16:36:45 that's also quite bad 16:37:11 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 16:37:22 _death: what info did you have on that bug? 16:37:45 x86, linux, sbcl version? 16:37:50 Hey guys I learned scheme in sch and I am just wondering how I could apply it in real life 16:38:05 you might be interested in #scheme, then 16:38:05 This is more about Common Lisp, alas. See #scheme for Scheme. 16:38:08 I am a web developer, and I am interested if Scheme has some web librares ( or lisp, it doesn't matter) 16:38:08 -!- cads_ [n=max@adsl-215-217-154.aep.bellsouth.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:38:26 is there more libraries available in scheme or lisp? 16:38:31 yes 16:38:43 disappearedng: tons of stuff out there. use google. "common lisp"+"web development" 16:39:10 disappearedng: Hunchentoot and/or Portable AllegroServer are two recommended starter points. 16:39:25 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:28 <_death> mega1: sbcl 1.0.26, Linux sneeze 2.6.25.20-0.1-pae #1 SMP 2008-12-12 20:30:38 +0100 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux, latest slime 16:39:47 Krystof: Nice answer! I like it! 16:40:34 thx guys 16:40:51 disappearedng: I am curious, suppose someone said "scheme". What would you do with that information? 16:41:22 I will learn more advanced scheme then 16:41:28 cause like I warez alot 16:41:34 and I have a ton of ebooks available 16:41:34 disappearedng: then you would be making a big mistake. 16:41:50 well I am gonna ask this question on 3 different mediums 16:42:01 go read pcl for free for common lisp 16:42:10 minion: tell disappearedng about that-dead-sexy-book 16:42:11 disappearedng: because you would believe a single person, and you would only be counting the number of libraries and not the respective quality. 16:42:12 disappearedng: have a look at that-dead-sexy-book: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 16:42:48 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:42:53 spradnyesh2 [n=pradyus@117.192.10.78] has joined #lisp 16:42:54 man I love lisp 16:42:58 disappearedng: You are free to make huge mistakes making decisions of course, if that's what you want to do. 16:43:00 it's so cool to be functional 16:43:09 beach: It's not that big a deal 16:43:16 it's like learning german and french 16:43:19 disappearedng: Lisp is not considered a functional programming language. 16:43:35 disappearedng: If it is not that big a deal, why ask? 16:43:35 lisp is not (just) a "functional" language 16:43:49 it can do "functional" things and lots of others 16:44:04 *beach* should chill out and get a glass of wine. 16:45:00 disappearedng: what you hold as true for scheme isnt necessairly true for common lisp, neither in theory or in practice. learn cl and ask questions about cl here. but if you are looking for excessive hand holding and hype, scheme is more likely to be your cup of tea. 16:45:22 disappearedng: Common Lisp is better than Scheme if you want to write programs, just as French is better than German if you want to write novels in French 16:45:29 *Riastradh* blinks. 16:45:48 nice. 16:45:50 hypno, I'm curious: where did your remark about hand-holding and hype come from? 16:45:59 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77278 16:46:12 can someone plz help me with the above paste? 16:46:34 mvilleneuve: your analogy is so funny 16:46:38 seriously lol 16:46:38 i've defined a helper fn, but on calling the main fn, lisp tells me that the helper fn is actually an unbound variable 16:47:01 Riastradh: it came from the style of disappearedng discourse. 16:47:38 spradnyesh2: if you're newish to lisp my first guesds is you have too few parens 16:47:56 dan_b: i am newish to lisp 16:48:14 but the helper fn works if invoked independently 16:48:20 <_3b> spradnyesh2: don't abbreviate list as lst, use (zerop n) instead of (= n 0), don't use eval 16:48:22 and you're writing e.g. (cond (my-function (blah) ... ))) 16:48:36 oh waitm you posted code. /.me looks 16:48:38 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [No route to host] 16:49:05 <_3b> spradnyesh2: you don't need to quote keywords 16:49:05 _3b: i am actually learning from a book and it's teaching about evals 16:49:11 hence using eval ;) 16:49:18 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:49:22 oh god, what book? 16:49:48 <_3b> ah, eval is OK to use for learning about eval... it is usually a sign of doing something wrong in normal code though 16:49:50 common lisp: an interactive approach 16:50:18 i find it better than "practical lisp" (for which i find a lot of praise around) 16:50:30 but that might be just me 16:50:59 saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 16:51:07 -!- phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:51:26 is portable allegroserv really still recommended? 16:51:46 <_3b> spradnyesh2: to what do you expect (lazy-next lst) to evaluate? 16:51:56 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:11 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:15 (lazy-next '(1 2 3)) 16:52:15 (1 :PROMISE LAZY-NEXT (2 3)) 16:52:24 _3b: how much is there to learn about eval? that it evals in null lexical environment and that you shouldn't use it in normal circumstances? 16:52:35 but none of those elements are function names 16:52:36 <_3b> spradnyesh2: and what is REST of that? 16:52:52 stassats: there's one page of lisp code to learn about eval. 16:52:59 (:promise lazy-next (2 3)) 16:53:15 <_3b> spradnyesh2: and when you evaluate that? 16:53:18 ohh, i guess i get it 16:53:21 thanks _3b 16:53:46 but the error was misleading then 16:54:05 also, i'm not able to use the debugger quite well yet 16:54:16 rsynnott: well, what is the problem with it? i use it with scl and it has been excellent so far. my main reason for using it is that it provides most http-functionality within one simple package. hunchentoot is all fine and dandy, but i dislike the depends-structure/design. 16:54:36 <_death> spradnyesh2: that depends on the implementation you're using.. sbcl gives an error about :promise 16:54:38 desperately tried to get my hands on single-stepping from within slime+sbcl 16:54:42 ah, you're using scl? 16:54:48 as a matter of interest, why? 16:55:00 rsynnott: was that a Q for me? 16:55:09 nope, hypno 16:55:15 rsynnott: k 16:55:21 spradnyesh2: it works from time to time :) 16:55:42 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087FFD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["I am Locutus of Borg! You will assist us!"] 16:57:00 rsynnott: the main reason is that all the servers i admin at work is either netbsd/sparc64/amd64/i386 or solaris/sparc64. no free implementation is reliable (as in rock-solid) on either of those, unfortunately. SCL also happends to ship with both SSL and crypto and fast streams out of the box, all of which i need. :) 16:57:19 ah, yep 16:57:31 are the fast streams noticably faster? :) 16:59:03 Beket [n=stathis@adsl-250-052.diodos.auth.gr] has joined #lisp 17:00:10 heh. well, i havent benchmarked it, really. i just want a cl that is stable (or else i will rapidly approach the same sort of depression i had during my C days). the streams are secondary really, but the smp and io system seems to have been really well worked out. 17:02:06 rsynnott: there is still a need for closification and abstraction within the network package in scl (it is /way/ to C-ish by default) and also lack of interpreter makes it somewhat boring when you wanna update macros without recompilation. 17:04:37 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77282 17:05:00 yesterday, when i pasted something in paste.lisp.org, an entry was automatically made here 17:05:06 i wonder why that's not happening today 17:05:23 <_3b> you didn't specify the channel properly 17:05:30 anyways, in the paste, i've given a code and the current output, and how i actually want the output to look like 17:06:13 _3b, i get it (the channel thingy, i mean) 17:06:15 change (rest lst) to ',(rest lst) 17:06:17 anyways, back to the code 17:06:25 no 17:06:45 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:06:49 if i put a quote just before (rest lst), it doesn't work (as expected) 17:06:53 dcrawford: lemme try 17:07:04 <_death> `',(rest lst) 17:07:10 <_death> but that's silly code 17:07:21 that's what I was thinking 17:07:37 yea, that worked 17:07:42 but that's silly as _death says 17:07:43 <_3b> yeah, better to switch to funcall or apply instead of eval 17:07:48 what's teh correct way to do that? 17:08:00 ohh, apply comes in the next chapter ;) 17:08:06 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:08:07 <_death> better not to use eval here 17:08:18 baffg [n=baffg@208-254-122-026.plateautel.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:19 i peeked before hand itself (hehe) 17:08:33 guys, thanks a lot for all the support 17:09:21 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087FFD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:32 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:12:27 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:12:56 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.88.5] has joined #lisp 17:13:15 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:13:52 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:13:54 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:14:07 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:15:15 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Client Quit] 17:15:21 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:15:31 cmo-0 [n=user@86.99.135.14] has joined #lisp 17:18:15 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@99.136.101.166] has joined #lisp 17:18:21 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-17-58-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:23:01 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:29 I have spent only on few minutes on OS X, but I can tell that their posix signal implementation is borked. 17:24:02 -!- dialtone_ is now known as dialtone 17:24:14 googling for OS X and signals turns up results that give me shivers 17:25:04 I think it were just as broken before but the current implementation stresses it more. 17:25:46 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host66-178-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 17:26:28 didn't slyrus have a test case which showed that it dropped a signal on the floor about 1 time in 1000? 17:28:28 for sigtrap, yes 17:28:34 but I think they fixed that 17:28:38 and sigill worked 17:28:53 fsvo worked 17:29:33 and morning mega1, krystof, et al. 17:29:43 slyrus_: morning 17:30:09 slyrus_: you will be happy to know your website has comcast jumping through hoops now 17:30:09 deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has joined #lisp 17:30:31 what did i do? 17:30:38 I am trying out cl-octave with sbcl/clbuild. It seems to need an :extensions package. Any hints on what that is? 17:30:57 I clbuild instal'd and loaded misc-extensions, no luck 17:31:00 nothing that I know of, but I can't reach it from here (including the repos from clbuild) 17:31:09 argh... 17:31:11 although I can reach it from other networks 17:31:20 maybe it's a comcast/att pissing match 17:31:25 comcast says they can reach it from some states, and not others 17:31:54 apparently @ComcastBill couldn't reach it on a verizon network either 17:32:30 ejs [n=eugen@76-107-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:46 deego: extensions is the cmucl externsions package. you might try to use sb-ext instead 17:32:46 at least I have them admitting there is an issue 17:33:10 deego: if that does not work, try "apropos" to see if the function has moved to some other sbcl private package. 17:34:17 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has joined #lisp 17:35:25 -!- holycow [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:35:25 H4ns: thanks 17:37:32 -!- disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:38:09 disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has joined #lisp 17:38:18 -!- disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:38:52 disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has joined #lisp 17:39:52 -!- |Trickster| [i=Trickste@84.42.57.231] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:40:04 |Trickster| [i=Trickste@84.42.57.231] has joined #lisp 17:42:00 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 17:44:35 -!- mega1 [n=mega@pool-006d0.externet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:49:53 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-04e307b972518f62] has joined #lisp 17:51:30 Squeakster [n=bPrior@d154-20-44-22.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:40 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:55:11 -!- Squeakster [n=bPrior@d154-20-44-22.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:56:45 -!- spradnyesh2 [n=pradyus@117.192.10.78] has left #lisp 18:01:44 jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has joined #lisp 18:04:39 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:07:37 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:07:49 thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:50 is there any standard way of naming restarts for PACKAGE-ERROR, or am I supposed to research how it behaves on each implementation? 18:11:10 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 18:11:39 timor [n=icke@port-87-234-97-28.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:15:03 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.88.5] has quit [] 18:22:45 JJohnson [n=Miranda@h15.29.141.67.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:35 Hello, I have a question. If I'd like to take a character and increment it by one place (that is "a" becomes "b", "r" becomes "s", etc.), how would I do that? 18:24:44 (code-char (1+ (char-code #\a))) 18:24:58 Thank you very much. :) 18:27:16 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit ["Be back later"] 18:28:13 <_death> you could also have a string like "abcd...z" and use `position' 18:29:57 jfrancis__ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has joined #lisp 18:31:41 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has quit [] 18:33:01 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:33:40 willb [n=wibenton@wireless297.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 18:36:51 How can I find out more about position? 18:37:08 JJohnson: check in the hyperspec. 18:37:15 minion: clhs position 18:37:16 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 18:37:35 hmm, apparently that was for some other bot... :/ 18:37:37 rullie [n=rullie@bas4-toronto47-1176151257.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:37:41 clhs position 18:37:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_pos_p.htm 18:38:25 Thanks! 18:42:53 -!- JJohnson [n=Miranda@h15.29.141.67.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 18:43:12 10 points to whomever can identify this quote: "This fact is of no practical consequence, but it looks cute." 18:44:02 google can 18:44:35 Information No results found for "This fact is of no practical consequence, but it looks cute.". 18:44:36 noooo 18:45:22 Page 68 of Guy Steele, Jr's master's thesis. 18:45:35 (points tmh) => -26, damn, I could have used those 10 points. 18:45:54 :D 18:46:28 #gls-fans is somewhere not here 18:46:52 I'm not a fan, just attempting to enlighten myself. 18:47:19 Quadrescence: then enlighten yourself. 18:47:47 I am. 18:47:48 *tmh* wonders if it should have been than 18:48:23 It is "then" 18:48:59 here is a koan: write a program with one parenthesis 18:49:00 -!- cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-38-156.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:49:14 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-38-156.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:29 ;( 18:50:49 that doesn't look like a program 18:51:00 <_3b> sure it is... just a very boring one :) 18:51:02 -!- saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [] 18:51:30 in qbasic? 18:51:38 #\( 18:52:34 nooper: qb: '( or REM ( or print "(" 18:55:55 (I think REM is supported in qbasic. I know applesoft BASIC supports it. But I think that's out of the scope (haha, get it, scope?!) of this channel) 18:56:35 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:57:40 -!- jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:58:20 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:51 #\( 18:59:05 bah. 18:59:08 :) 19:01:31 younder [i=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 19:01:39 -!- gusnoo [n=nonamme@67.100.8.114] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:02:42 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:02:53 '|(| 19:03:14 Anyone here use Axiom? 19:10:44 that smells Twisted 19:11:24 gusnoo [n=nonamme@67.100.8.114] has joined #lisp 19:11:27 dlowe: that program does nothing! 19:11:30 *stassats* .... became enlightened 19:12:10 stassats: it returns a symbol :p 19:12:12 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.162.151] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:12:21 #|(|# does nothing, though 19:12:23 KalifG [n=user@166.128.162.151] has joined #lisp 19:12:54 '\( is shorter than '|(| 19:14:08 well the #\( doesn't even have (quote ) 19:14:15 #|(|# looks like parenthesis in prison 19:15:03 mije [n=mije@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:47 they are, kind-of. not making much good in a comment, are they? 19:17:34 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-192.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 19:21:03 pierre__thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:18 -!- mije [n=mije@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:22:18 -!- deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:22:18 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:22:18 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-103-91.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:22:18 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has 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quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:25:23 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 19:26:10 dwave [n=ask@062016247112.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 19:26:12 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:12 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:26:40 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:28:21 elias` [n=me@resnet-nat-001.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:28:26 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E023.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:49 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 19:31:24 Do you know if I can participate in google's summer of code by coding lisp somewhere? Lisp NYC is gone, but what about GIMP et ceteris institutions? 19:31:31 lep-delete [n=Administ@i59F4F3B7.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:34:55 konr: you'd have to look at the GSoC site 19:35:19 there have been lisp projects every year, iirc. 19:35:43 Anyone here use Axiom? 19:36:28 younder: you already asked that. 19:36:30 nope. i tend to use maxima when I need such systems. 19:37:56 beach: Noone answered so I just wanted to test is anyone heard 19:38:29 younder: most people here know how to use scrollbacks and logs. 19:38:32 Been a lot of net splits today 19:38:48 konr: you could apply for porting a CL implementation to Plan9 or Minix 19:39:53 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250004.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:53 or haiku 19:40:14 c|mell [n=cmell@x250008.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 19:40:47 Wow, minix has been accepted to GSoC. The minimalism of minix has always intrigued me. I hope that OS gains traction. 19:40:49 what's SBCL's REPL function called? 19:40:59 (ie. for :toplevel in SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE) 19:41:21 it's default for :toplevel in slad 19:41:40 I know, but I want to do a bit, then call it 19:41:47 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:54 and the docs won't spill the beans 19:42:07 well, look at slad 19:42:26 good idea 19:42:26 berndj [n=berndj@41.4.147.220] has joined #lisp 19:42:44 (describe #'save-lisp-and-die) ... (TOPLEVEL #'TOPLEVEL-INIT) ... 19:43:02 or start sbcl and do (backtrace) 19:44:35 quasi pasted "Some common HASH algorithms. Any optimizations ?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77292 19:45:07 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:46:52 is quasi here? 19:47:26 under another nick, perhaps 19:47:42 that's what i'm trying to figure 19:48:35 ah :) 19:49:44 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:41 s519 [n=sjackson@87-194-151-213.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:57:59 -!- s519 [n=sjackson@87-194-151-213.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 19:58:16 s519 [n=sjackson@87-194-151-213.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:58:19 Axiom was a commercial product until 2001. It is way better than maxima that was released in 1982. Altough MacSygma was last released in 1997. For the record.. 19:58:53 asn [n=fafa@gentoo/developer/asn] has joined #lisp 20:01:06 gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:51 arkan0id [n=bertelli@189.6.99.36] has joined #lisp 20:02:45 -!- s519 [n=sjackson@87-194-151-213.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 20:03:14 *younder* joined the developement group 20:05:23 We need a few skilled soules who are good at math.. 20:05:50 and Lsip. 20:06:45 http://lispjobs.wordpress.com/about/ post your proposition there 20:07:21 It pays nothing.. 20:07:22 maxima is a live project. the code is under active development the last time I looked. 20:08:21 So it is.. Now check out Axiom.. 20:08:58 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:08 are there debian packages for axiom? 20:09:14 yes 20:09:43 enn [i=eli@ahab.flyoverblues.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:08 is it all written in lisp? 20:10:13 I use Fedora Linux for it 20:10:17 Fade: yes 20:10:28 which system does it sit on? 20:10:35 gcl? 20:10:52 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 20:10:53 maxima used to use gcl 20:10:56 It is portable 20:10:59 but you can build it with sbcl. 20:11:22 -!- frank_s_ [n=frank@41.145.42.12] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:11:29 frank_s [n=frank@41.145.42.12] has joined #lisp 20:11:48 I am working on that 20:11:54 npoektop [n=user@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 20:16:01 Arch compiles Maxima with clisp 20:16:24 Gentoo I think uses GCL by default (is there anything else GCL is really used for? xD) 20:16:53 debian uses gcl for maxima and axiom, afaik 20:17:28 stassats: Yes, but outside of those few packages that many people use without ever knowing they are actually delivered lisp apps... 20:17:56 I think gcl is still the default for maxima. 20:18:45 gcl was made for maxima 20:18:48 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.97.181] has joined #lisp 20:19:08 does gcl even conform to the cl spec? 20:19:09 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19:27 Fade: now they are going for ANSI CL, before that, CLtL 20:19:49 *Fade* watches axiom pull in about fifty texlive packages 20:20:00 p_l: *nod* 20:20:06 Fade: i don't think, but they have ansi test suit which is used by many implementations 20:20:27 gcl was the first cl I tried 20:20:31 Fade: In the meantime I think ECL surpassed them in ANSI compliance (and in having native threads :D) 20:20:39 How do I declare a statement in ACL2 to be true, such as (exists 'bird) 20:20:41 I figured 'maxima uses it... that's good enough for me.' 20:20:54 I'm not sure that GCL is going anywhere 20:20:58 some of the code in maxima predates CLtL1 :) 20:20:58 ECL is actually pretty nice. 20:21:06 it's pretty much unmaintained 20:21:20 I'm quite sure some parts of maxima code belch if not run under MACLISP :) 20:22:03 (on PDP-10 with ITS, of course) 20:22:05 i admire ecl's portability. 20:22:53 _quasi [n=quasi@121.245.178.102] has joined #lisp 20:22:53 that's because of gcc 20:23:00 Fade: you can tell axiom not to show the loading of fas'ls. Ity irritated the hell out of me too 20:23:13 <_quasi> hello 20:23:14 i'm just installing it. 20:23:20 _quasi: hi 20:23:24 it's pulling down like 150M of tex + fonts. 20:23:36 _quasi: did you post code with hashes? 20:23:40 stassats: it's more than that, as it actually works without GCC :) 20:23:50 <_quasi> ya ..and I think I messed up big time 20:23:52 (I mean, it doesn't require me to use GCC) 20:23:59 p_l: clisp too 20:24:10 *p_l* uses ECL compiled with MSVC 20:24:29 weird 20:24:30 <_quasi> the lisp code returns bignums... and the C code returned unsigned ints .. 20:24:32 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has quit [] 20:24:51 djb's code usues dbj's own clib. 20:25:04 which like all djb-ware is quirky. 20:25:13 _quasi: makes sense if the numbers are large. remember the tag bits 20:25:15 _quasi: you mean in C they wrap around? 20:25:53 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:55 <_quasi> stassats: that's what I am not clear about. Dont remember what happens when the numbers overflow 20:26:04 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:26:18 the debian/ubuntu maxima packages do use gcl. 20:26:24 <_quasi> younder: tag bits ? 20:27:13 _quasi: in some lisps fixnums are less then machine word, some bits are used for tags 20:27:19 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:27:30 but that's not the case, i think 20:27:37 quasi annotated #77292 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77292#1 20:27:38 _quasi: for each fixnum there is 2 or 3 (depending on implemntation) tag bits giving you a lesser range that C 20:27:40 hi, i use limp, how do i resume to a sbcl session? 20:27:46 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:07 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.72] has joined #lisp 20:28:25 _quasi: as far as i understand, in C unsigned integers indeed wrap around 20:29:05 <_quasi> stassats: how do we do it in lisp ? 20:29:17 _quasi: take a look at this paper about modular arithmetic http://jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~csr21/papers/modular/modular.pdf 20:30:18 -!- dwave [n=ask@062016247112.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 20:30:34 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-146-52.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 20:31:27 younder: does axiom have a graphical editor like wxmaxima? 20:31:36 no 20:32:09 <_quasi> stassats: thanks. will read it. 20:32:56 Fade: they are working on a netscape interface 20:33:01 gack 20:33:13 no ghecko 20:33:17 lol 20:34:00 i wish people would stop using html/http as the display interface for every goddamned thing. :P 20:34:06 it's not the way. 20:35:12 Let's face it the text based interface made them loose to Mathematica and Maple 20:35:14 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:35:42 well, honestly, mathematica is more than an interface, but it's interface is a force amplifier. 20:35:43 But they still had a strong structure and engine 20:35:43 younder: that would be "lose" 20:35:56 i wish there was a free package that competed with it, but it doesn't exist. 20:36:21 appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-217.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:36:35 maxima is pretty good, but it won't replace mathemetica for people that need it. 20:36:42 Fade: Help contribute to it. 20:37:13 I already have too many projects on my plate. 20:37:17 Axiom is powerful, it just needs a graphical akeover 20:37:24 but you should check lichtblau's QT bindings. 20:37:49 ? 20:37:53 an honest to gravy interface to a decent engine could be low hanging fruit that leads to a domain win for your package. 20:38:20 http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ 20:38:55 well, competing with mathemetica is no easy 20:39:07 Qt is commercial, I would prefer GNOME 20:39:22 younder: LGPL isn't that commercial... 20:39:27 visualisation should likely be at the heart of the featureset for any modern algebra system. 20:39:38 gtk is lgpl too 20:40:02 -!- deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:40:20 many good opensource projects are commercial 20:40:25 Axiom does have graphs (using a X windows window) 20:40:31 *p_l* doesn't care as long as he will get a good performing GUI library that doesn't seem to require bloody sacrifices to run everywhere he wants it to run 20:41:16 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 20:41:30 p_l: Can any GUI claim that? 20:41:55 all good software is based on blood, sweat, teras and compromises 20:42:01 *tears 20:42:18 tmh: wxWindows and Qt are darn close from library standpoint for the architectures where such a gui would be expected... 20:42:23 QT is coming pretty close. 20:42:24 tieras 20:42:30 it works on windows, osx and unix. 20:42:34 Is there any merit to keep variable unbound? I feel setting nil is better than keeping it unbound. 20:42:39 and mobile phones 20:42:45 elsewhere, no one will be disturbed by having early '90s OpenLook style :D 20:42:46 aye 20:42:48 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-146-232.netcologne.de] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:42:55 tomoyuki28jp: to bind it later! 20:43:13 or Motif look (I actually have seen some apps that still use it... on Windows) 20:43:19 i've heard usability complaints about wxwindows's support of the open file dialog on macs 20:43:20 wx blends well, but it's not as nice as QT. 20:43:23 (defvar *f*) will make *f* special, but unbound 20:43:31 it was either Tk or Motif, I'm not sure which one 20:43:51 p_l: just about anything based on clim looks like motif. 20:43:52 heh 20:43:58 Qt is really nice, the main problem with Qt is that it is c++ and that doesn't really lend itself well tog ui programming 20:44:16 stassats: How can we check if value is set to *f* without invoking an error? 20:44:18 it's c++ that needs preprocessing also 20:44:28 clhs boundp 20:44:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_boundp.htm 20:44:53 well, /w lichtblau's cl bindings to qt, you can just build up your interface through the repl. seems like a win to me. 20:45:08 mle: AFAIK Qt doesn't use preprocessing since Qt3, qmake and moc is left to support old-style code generation 20:45:12 stassats: uhm , I feel like (defvar *f* nil) is better so that we don't need boundp. 20:45:37 Really? That's a good change... 20:45:39 <_3b> unbound is nice for when an error is preferred 20:45:48 tombom, sometimes nil is inappropriate for a value 20:45:57 -!- H4ns [n=hans@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:46:11 bah, name complete fail :( 20:46:19 oh well 20:46:29 tomoyuki28jp: it's a matter of style/prefs.. i tend to bind vars in all languages to avoid surprises 20:47:04 <_3b> using the wrong value is more of a suprise than getting an error :) 20:47:06 _3b: dcrawford: Foofie: thanks 20:50:21 Qt has a C++ inteface 20:50:37 sigh 20:50:45 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.36] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:51:30 Anyone know of a good C++ interface to Lisp... 20:51:33 and now through the magic of smoke and lichtblau it has a common lisp one 20:51:41 http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ 20:51:57 younder: C 20:51:58 minion: commonqt 20:51:59 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``commonqt''. 20:52:29 minion: commonqt is http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ 20:52:30 lisp is the glue that binds the variables together 20:53:39 p_l: the qt4.5 docs on trolltech.com indicate qmake/moc is still in use... but yeah I haven't messed with qt since like 1.x 20:53:47 Well you get going then, my bysy little bees :) 20:53:50 minion: add commonqt as: a Common Lisp binding to the smoke library for Qt. 20:53:51 OK, done. 20:54:04 oops, forget url 20:54:38 mle: the part that required preprocessing is missing, as standard-compatible stuff appeared. Moc is still used for generating C++ code from definition files, a'la glade, afaik 20:54:57 minion: show me commonqt? 20:54:58 stassats: please look at commonqt: a Common Lisp binding to the smoke library for Qt. http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ 20:55:31 p_l: so what do people do instead of defining signals and slots? 20:55:32 Yes, you taught it that a minute ago.. 20:56:06 mle: there's a now a standard-compatible way to implement signals and slots. I'm not C++ guy, though, so don't ask me how it works :D 20:56:40 -!- berndj [n=berndj@41.4.147.220] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:57:14 p_l: fire 20:57:17 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-182-20-9.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:22 I guess in some abstract, existential way, everything works because of fire. 20:58:37 p_l: I think Qt uses moc for qt4 although you can write it out 20:59:03 -!- cmo-0 [n=user@86.99.135.14] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:59:40 p_l: http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/signalsandslots.html 21:00:02 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250008.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:00:40 Foofie: AFAIK it was something like in old times, they did some hacky trick to get workable signals, but it required a preprocessor 21:01:00 later it was not necessary, but the preprocessor stayed as a convenience tool 21:01:16 p_l: but I don't see any docs talking about the new way, and I do see docs talking about and recommending/justifying the old way. 21:01:34 quasi annotated #77292 "limiting the output" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77292#2 21:01:40 when it's a hack you need to "justify" 21:02:07 it wasn't an ugly hack... it was a good design decision. still a tough sell though. 21:02:20 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-192.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 21:03:00 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:03:30 <_quasi> stassats: does that look ok ? Function does not look too fast, though. 21:03:32 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-192.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:03:33 well, as I said - I'm not C++ guy, take my opinions with a a truckload of salt :) 21:05:36 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:09:14 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-182-20-9.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 21:09:46 stassats annotated #77292 "maybe like this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77292#3 21:09:59 _quasi: check this 21:10:03 -!- Beket [n=stathis@adsl-250-052.diodos.auth.gr] has left #lisp 21:10:38 and i forgot declare 21:10:51 ugh 21:11:27 that is but fucing ugly.. 21:12:02 younder: you are welcome to improve it 21:12:14 -!- blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@63.sub-70-220-179.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:13:15 i need a tab reaper for my browser that kills tabs that haven't been visited since 48 hours. 21:13:24 -!- ejs [n=eugen@76-107-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:14:18 Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has joined #lisp 21:14:48 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has joined #lisp 21:15:01 Fade: tab-GC? :P 21:16:24 _quasi: and also declare string as simple-string 21:16:34 <_quasi> stassats: I had put the ldb around the (ash hash 5) as that might result in a large number 21:16:53 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:17:54 well, yes. is that an actual plugin? 21:18:00 'cause that's something I could use. ;) 21:18:30 lol 21:18:32 I'm working on my OpenRM bindings again. When I create a new WINDOW, the default to to create a new SCENE as well. What I would like is that if the user specifies :SCENE NIL then no scene is created. But the trouble is that NIL still causes the initform to be evaluated, which causes a new scene to be created. Anyone have any ideas? 21:18:47 ejs [n=eugen@76-107-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:00 H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 21:19:24 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCE399.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:51 Balooga: The obvious. Don't evaluate nil? 21:20:10 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:20:11 <_3b> use default-initarg instead of initform? 21:21:21 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-182-20-9.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:34 younder: You mean in an :around? 21:22:48 _3b: Oh... good idea :) 21:23:15 <_quasi> In such functions, can we reduce consing ? It is consing a lot. 21:23:56 _quasi: doesn't cons for me in sbcl 21:24:25 _quasi: you are trying it under slime? 21:25:19 <_quasi> stassats: ya. under slime. It conses 1279 cons cells and 9808 other bytes for a string of length 20. 21:26:22 doesn't cons for a string of length 100000 called 4000 times 21:26:42 also, when testing in slime, slime conses itself 21:26:48 he's obviously using some other lisp 21:27:11 <_quasi> it does not cons under sbcl. that consing was under alisp 21:27:23 <_quasi> I just tried out both without slime 21:27:34 -!- Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has quit ["changing servers"] 21:28:10 Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has joined #lisp 21:28:21 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:28:35 well, it's hard to make low-level optimization working an all lisps 21:29:45 -!- Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has quit [Client Quit] 21:30:46 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 21:31:15 hey, did anyone have trouble obtaining commonqt? 21:31:55 Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has joined #lisp 21:31:58 rsynnott: do you mean the git error? 21:32:02 hi, i use limp, how do i resume to a sbcl session? 21:32:12 I did git clone git://repo.or.cz/commonqt.git as on the page, but it gave me the error "warning: remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref, unable to checkout. 21:32:17 lichtblau: yep, that :) 21:32:19 same here 21:32:22 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:39 the clone works, it just doesn't know how which branch to check out. cd commonqt; git checkout smoke1 21:32:42 am I just doing somthing silly? (I'm not really used to git) 21:32:50 ah, I see :) 21:32:52 thanks 21:33:26 <_quasi> stassats: I guess. I just tried a larger string (l=30) a 1000 times on sbcl and it consed about 2Mb. I am using sbcl on osx. 21:33:33 -!- asn [n=fafa@gentoo/developer/asn] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:33:53 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:33:58 _quasi: your hash functions don't compute the right values. You should use ldb/mod/logand to only keep the bits you're interested in. 21:33:59 sorry for the difficulties, repo.or.cz doesn't seem to track changes to .git/HEAD on a repository it is mirroring. Perhaps I need to delete and re-create the mirror. 21:34:23 and to get smoke 2 I just get kdebindings? 21:34:53 -!- arkan0id [n=bertelli@189.6.99.36] has quit [Client Quit] 21:34:58 <_quasi> pkhuong: ya. I realised that. the annotation no:2 is trying to correct it. does that work? 21:35:14 you need kdebindings from svn to use the smoke2 branch, yes 21:36:17 -!- H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:37:09 0 support for limp eh? =/ 21:37:37 rullie: use slime 21:37:41 can I build that without needing the whole of KDE? 21:37:48 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 21:38:37 -!- Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has quit ["changing servers"] 21:39:12 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 21:39:20 -!- disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:39:41 _quasi: it might help to specify the type of STR more precisely. 21:40:37 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 21:42:33 lichtblau: is there a guide to compiling smoke anywhere? Docs aren't very clear 21:43:22 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:44:20 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:42 -!- _CitizenKane_ [n=quassel@edit57.daily.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:45:01 H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 21:46:14 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:46:40 _CitizenKane_ [n=quassel@edit57.daily.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 21:48:21 xavierg2003 [n=xavierg2@host-98-127-40-131.bln-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:35 i don't have a lisp but i do have a programming lisp 21:49:20 -!- xavierg2003 [n=xavierg2@host-98-127-40-131.bln-mt.client.bresnan.net] has left #lisp 21:49:38 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:49:40 kpreid_____ [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:28 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.72] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:52:07 -!- kpreid_____ [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:39 -!- kpreid__ [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:55:18 rsynnott: 1. install various dependencies 2. "cmake CMakeLists.txt" 3. go back to the first step until step two works 4. cd smoke && make 21:55:32 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:46 -!- lep-delete [n=Administ@i59F4F3B7.versanet.de] has quit ["leaving"] 21:56:01 rsynnott: you're not on linux? 21:56:55 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:58:04 -!- kejsaren2 [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:58:18 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:33 -!- rlpowell_ is now known as rlpowell 21:58:47 quasi annotated #77292 "outputing unsigned-byte 32" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77292#4 22:03:29 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:04:06 -!- _quasi [n=quasi@121.245.178.102] has quit ["sleep:4am"] 22:05:16 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:07:51 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:08:25 -!- yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:12:07 lukego [n=lukegorr@219-89-62-179.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:12:12 bastards, I am jealous. :) 22:12:49 hi lukego 22:12:51 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-2.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 22:12:56 hi luke (: 22:12:58 jealous of what ? 22:13:03 ILC09 22:13:08 ah, haha 22:13:26 if t'were a week earlier I would have made it :) 22:13:38 welcome home antifuchs :) 22:14:12 cheers (: 22:14:20 lichtblau: macos 22:14:26 I've got qt 22:14:30 I have uploaded your statesmanly photo, by the way (: 22:14:41 having some odd problems building smoke 22:15:00 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 22:16:17 antifuchs: me? on soup.io or? 22:16:41 ah, just realized that I'd not done it properly; hang on (: 22:17:07 -!- mije [n=mije@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:17:55 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has quit [] 22:18:52 lukego: that one: http://www.23hq.com/antifuchs/photo/4077379 (: 22:19:58 cool :) all that's missing is: monocle, bowler hat, umbrella, copy of the evening Times 22:20:20 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-182-20-9.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:21:09 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:21:22 c|mell [n=cmell@x250004.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:21:32 yes, you are (: 22:21:40 nothing a bit of photoshop can't fix (: 22:24:14 lichtblau: ah, looks like I've got it 22:24:23 I'll document how to at some point 22:24:30 -!- Jabberwock [n=Tumnus_@port-13607.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:24:50 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:33:50 I've got qt 22:33:56 working on a qt api? 22:34:29 minion: tell sohail about commonqt 22:34:30 sohail: look at commonqt: a Common Lisp binding to the smoke library for Qt. http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ 22:34:47 AWESOME 22:34:59 FRICKIN AWESOME 22:35:01 who did this? 22:35:07 lichtblau 22:35:17 my man 22:36:54 Beket [n=stathis@ppp52-43.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:37:24 how do you go about defining foreign keys etc. when using postmodern? 22:38:07 do you just define your tables by hand, 'the old way' or do you use some magic with defclass and dao-class? 22:38:20 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@86.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 22:38:26 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:40:51 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 22:41:25 H4ns1 [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 22:41:42 -!- H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:41:44 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 22:41:50 aggieben [n=chatzill@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:10 ah, looks like I'm misunderstanding postmodern, nevermind. 22:44:14 "SBCL needs 13 minutes to compile and load that trivial auto-generated code. And that's just for Qt itself, not including the rest of KDE. " 22:44:38 doh 22:45:11 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:41 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless297.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:47:46 Fuzz [n=Fuh-zz@72.169.217.193] has joined #lisp 22:48:10 sohail: ? 22:48:25 mathrick, was reading from the commonqt site 22:48:47 CLOS bindings 22:49:19 which is amazingly hard to google :) 22:50:01 hi 22:50:19 hello 22:50:25 mathrick, weird eh 22:50:34 yeah 22:50:39 I'm just getting into lisp, any quick pointers for me? 22:50:56 anyone know if it works with ecl? 22:50:56 (yes, google has been real helpful :P) 22:51:09 <_death> minion: tell Fuzz about pcl 22:51:11 Fuzz: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 22:51:11 Fuzz, keep clhs handy :-) 22:51:57 haha I'm just going through Practical Common Lisp righ tnow 22:52:11 <_death> excellent 22:53:15 One question, though: I'm using GNU CLISP 2.47 and I can't figure out how to save things. How do you do this? 22:53:55 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 22:54:17 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:22 Balooga [n=luke@208.87.19.36] has joined #lisp 22:54:25 <_death> usually you edit files and load them (or evaluate definitions in the file's buffer) 22:54:53 <_death> of course, you can save a lisp image using `ext:saveinitmem' 22:55:21 Alright, I'll check it out, thanks. 22:55:32 Notepad++ works real nice of course 22:55:44 minion: tell Fuzz about slime 22:55:45 Fuzz: please look at slime: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/slime 22:55:49 <_death> I use Emacs and SLIME 22:56:02 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:18 I was going to try that out, it looks pretty 22:56:50 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:57:07 <_death> you can try Lispbox for a quick setup 22:57:10 sohail: commonqt? I believe it should, OTOH lichtblau mentioned some needed FFI/GC magic that would reduce the support to SBCL only 22:57:26 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:12 Thank you very much, _death. 22:58:40 Fuzz: my personal advice is: even if you can't stand emacs for text editing, use slime as a REPL, because it gets you things like history, presentations, completion, arglist info display, ... 22:58:57 <_death> np.. off to watch a movie 22:59:07 mathrick, :-( 22:59:22 I had a Qt API earlier as well that took about 4 days to compile on ECL but 2 on SBCL :-) 22:59:31 2 minutes on SBCL that is 22:59:36 heh 23:00:02 well, it is very cool. I hope I can try it out soon. I've been so swamped these past few months. 23:00:51 mogunus [n=marco@wsip-70-184-14-138.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:23 Hello all. I just got the latest version of hunchentoot, and calling (stop) on my accessor takes almost a minute to complete. 23:02:03 dwave [n=ask@062016247112.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 23:02:48 mogunus, i saw that (both ccl and sbcl) 23:03:08 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A4CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:03:09 mogunus pasted "weird stop" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77307 23:03:16 until you hit refresh on browser it just hold 23:03:34 in the sense that, I call (stop *public-server*) 23:03:41 and my lisp prompt hangs 23:03:46 for like a minute 23:03:49 and then I get it back 23:04:14 tbnl devel list 23:04:36 Huh! refreshing the browser does indeed fix that. 23:04:55 well, "fix" 23:05:31 Thanks. Should I check the list (ie, is a cleaner solution there?) or write up my issue and send it to the list? 23:05:35 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-172-168.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:06:50 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 23:08:59 i think that H4ns is working on hunchentoot also, he meaby knows about that issue, or just send mail on devel list 23:09:40 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.97.181] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:14:52 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:34 -!- ejs [n=eugen@76-107-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:17:24 alobar [n=alobar@student164-62.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 23:22:03 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 23:22:30 Is someone coding in Icon language ? Could You compare it to Lisp ? 23:24:27 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:24:49 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:05 Intertricity2 [n=chatzill@131.91.107.220] has joined #lisp 23:32:17 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:57 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:27 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:13 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 23:43:29 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:43:39 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:44:21 *Fare* is starting to debug his new refactored xcvb and having interesting bugs. 23:45:25 -!- jfrancis__ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has quit [] 23:45:56 *Fare* oughta learn how to use git branches, so I can commit broken code 23:47:01 The value (:LOCAL 5) is not of type (MOD 1152921504606846973). -- What does THAT mean? 23:47:22 '(:local 5) is not a fixnum? 23:48:14 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:48:31 (mod #) is sbcl's way of expressing nonnegative integer types 23:48:46 doh. I think it rather means that my SLIME and SBCL are disagreeing on some protocol 23:48:56 -!- Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.214.215.dynamic.barak-online.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:49:06 for referring to local variables. 23:50:46 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:51:11 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.187.35] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:53:16 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:54:29 Urfin [i=foobar@85.65.214.215.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:55 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:56:35 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:58:04 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit ["leaving"]