00:00:03 Is anybody here using swank/vi? 00:00:23 I don't know what swank is; I use vim. 00:00:36 How do you live without slime? 00:00:49 Can't miss what you've never experienced. 00:01:46 In general, though, it doesn't fit well with how I develop: I use BDD, which means running the test framework, not doing the incremental compile-and-run-this-func-here stuff that I gather SLIME is about. 00:02:16 joelmccracken_ [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-231-39.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:26 -!- joelmccracken_ [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-231-39.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:02:38 What does BDD stand for? 00:02:59 http://behaviour-driven.org/ 00:03:01 AFK for a bit. 00:03:39 rlpowell: FYI, I am a run-the-tests fan, and I use slime anyway as an extra-fancy repl 00:03:50 *dlowe* doesn't think TDD and incremental development conflict. 00:04:28 testing functions in the repl is helpful 00:06:22 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:06:47 rlpowell: imagine that some people code in even more extreme TDD way: they call (my-app) in REPL and then add code till it works :D 00:06:50 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:07:20 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:40 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 00:13:43 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:15:37 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 00:15:58 dlowe: They probably shouldn't; I have a tendency towards being a bit simple-minded in my coding habits. 00:16:08 blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:35 p_l: I don't get how that's TDD? 00:16:45 rlpowell: test-driven development. 00:16:55 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:17:00 pkhuong: Yes, I know what it means; I don't see how p_l was describing anything like it. 00:17:10 I suspect this is confusion on my end rather than his. :) 00:17:26 blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:58 rlpowell: you're running the test yourself at the REPL, and ``fixing'' things as needed ;) 00:18:53 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCFA81.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:49 Huh. 00:20:53 I... never thought of that. 00:21:15 And then when the test passes, you save all the code to wherever and run the actual test suite to make sure you weren't just fooling yourself. :) 00:21:15 well, I prefer bottom up programming 00:22:50 *nod* 00:23:19 I use TDD/BDD to compensate for my substantial failings as a programmer. :) I tend to regress a *lot*. Also get confused as to how I intended code to work in the first place. 00:23:43 Question: tinaa seems to be the default document autogeneration system for CL stuff; are there others worth looking at? 00:23:50 -!- saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [] 00:26:13 rlpowell: did it work for you? i remember trying to asdf-install it some time ago, but it (the asdf-system) seemed pretty broken ... 00:27:03 rlpowell: asdf-install is well known *not* to work properly 00:27:15 ? I didn't say anything about asdf-install? 00:27:23 meant me, i guess 00:27:41 sorry, it was supposed to be addressed to danlei 00:27:55 tabcompletion sometimes gets the better of you :D 00:28:00 CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 00:28:05 I have been able to install tinaa with both asdf-install and clbuild. 00:28:16 So far, I like clbuild a lot better than asdf-install; I'm also trying out mudballs. 00:28:21 Opinions between those two welcome. 00:28:33 Now, Tinaa *does* have some non-trivial bugs, which is why I'm asking the question. 00:28:39 But I have been able to get it to mostly work for me. 00:28:41 p_l: i don't have that much installed, but for the most stuff i use, it worked (which doesn't say much) 00:29:20 (mostly edi weitz's stuff) 00:31:12 danlei: that's probably because edi weitz's stuff seems to be well maintained and released :) 00:31:16 <_death> rlpowell: atdoc is not bad, if you can stand all that markup 00:31:19 minion: documentation-template 00:31:21 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``documentation-template''. 00:31:23 *danlei* nods 00:31:40 bah, there's edi weitz's , for weitz-style HTML doc 00:32:25 Oh, he's cl-ppcre and cl-who. Neat. (didn't know who you were talking about there for a minute) 00:32:38 Oh, and hunchentoot. Busy guy. 00:32:58 rlpowell: paid to hack useful stuff. 00:33:05 I've spent *far* too long with the whole "making cl-who do macros" thing, which seems to be a common black-holle project. :) 00:33:09 pkhuong: Nifty-keen. 00:33:10 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:33:48 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 00:33:57 Thanks for the pointers, all. 00:35:25 This is a quick hack which helps to build HTML pages that look like this one or like the one you're currently looking at. It hasn't been tested thoroughly, it isn't properly documented, it only works with LispWorks, SBCL, and AllegroCL, and it most likely doesn't do what you expect. -- nice disclaimer. :D 00:36:17 <_death> yes, it's very bare-bones 00:36:56 heh. Sometimes you can find quite a good software being available somewhere, except there is nearly zero hype *nor* information about it :) 00:37:53 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:40:24 http://www.stepmania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=140021&postcount=106 -- my favorite disclaimer ever; the second quote block. 00:40:43 p_l: Yeah; it scares me because I wonder how much other software is out there I never hear about. :( 00:41:51 -!- jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:42:07 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C46D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:45:45 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.216.62] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:46:00 -!- ausente [n=lhugbj@189-19-126-131.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #lisp 00:46:01 Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 00:47:35 rlpowell: my favourite one included not being accountable for George W. Bush second term 00:48:09 -!- jao [n=jao@148.Red-83-39-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:48:17 no matter what your political views might be, finding that in disclaimer was hilarious 00:49:06 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:53:20 -!- netytan [n=netytan@150.237.123.64] has left #lisp 00:53:57 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:58:52 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:07:42 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-6cd59d7846a7e835] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:08:13 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:09:53 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.87.22] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:13:42 -!- spec[afk] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["BB"] 01:13:59 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-16-111.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:14:06 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:14:45 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-121-160.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:37 btw, how much people would be interested in CL on Windows Mobile? :) 01:19:21 -!- deat_ [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 01:20:19 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 01:21:34 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 01:23:44 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:25:21 User862 [n=User@user-0c99lid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:25:36 -!- User862 [n=User@user-0c99lid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:25:39 digDoug [n=digDoug@user-0c99lid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:05 -!- digDoug [n=digDoug@user-0c99lid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:27:49 -!- TML [n=joey@unaffiliated/tml] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:27:59 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-192-148.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:12 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:13 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:32:17 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:32:45 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:08 rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:18 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:57 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-250-154-57.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:26 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-244-121-160.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:41:57 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:48 benny` [n=benny@i577A04A5.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:49:36 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has joined #lisp 01:49:40 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-192-148.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:49:55 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:54:29 -!- Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:56:14 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 01:58:16 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:58:47 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CE57.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:00:08 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:00:28 p_l: i would :) 02:00:35 hehe 02:00:47 Currently I'm testing only getting ECL, though 02:01:12 I'm not sure if SBCL would play nice with Windows Mobile, though :D 02:02:05 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A097C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:02:13 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-250-154-57.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 02:03:05 p_l: step 1: write an ARM port for a *nix, probably linux. step n: port to winmo 02:03:39 thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:30 philipp_ [n=philipp@179-35.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 02:05:13 pkhuong: step n-1: scrap all code except instruction generation for ARM due to not fitting windows mobile? 02:05:37 cipher [n=cipher@pool-173-48-136-239.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:33 p_l: not needed. 02:07:35 pkhuong: I mean in the sense of the winmo port :) 02:07:36 -!- philipp [n=philipp@179-35.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:07:47 still not needed. 02:07:50 p_l: if it would support the old windows mobile things, very 02:08:39 Unless you mean stripping everything but the assembler, in which case: what's the point? Might as well try and go for an umbilical development model (and fork). 02:09:21 pkhuong: Windows Mobile seems a completely different place from *nix 02:10:10 wohoo2923 [n=Miranda@p5B03B3DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:10:40 madnificent: I'm trying to get CL working for my WinMobile 5.0 device 02:10:41 has anyone seen sbcl fail to read ~/.sbclrc? I am trying to debug this behavior on a distant mac. 02:10:55 p_l: that is the latest before the 200x releases? 02:11:35 wouldn't it be easier to start from android 02:11:46 -!- wohoo2923 is now known as CaptPirx2 02:11:51 p_l: I have an old ipaq laying around (which crashes on me from time to time), but it would be nice to use. It would be possible to use it if it saved data on the card etc 02:12:02 rullie: running linux on a pda isn't a guaranteed success 02:12:11 lots of things aren't supported 02:12:21 prxq_ [n=mommer@Xddc9.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 02:12:22 -!- prxq [n=mommer@Yaf4c.y.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:12:31 madnificent: that's the "after 2003" release 02:12:36 p_l: Siskind once had a huge tarball of Lisp (scheme and CL) winmo software at . 02:13:04 p_l: I think I have the 2003, I can test-run what you build on it 02:13:14 madnificent: the earliest I can link for is 2003 according to the docs I have 02:13:16 i have a winm 6 pro 02:14:03 KalifG [n=user@166.128.162.151] has joined #lisp 02:14:05 p_l: heh, apparantly, I have pocket PC 4,20 02:15:10 that would be somewhere along 2003... 02:15:18 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:15:53 I have a hp200lx. It actually runs lisp to boot. 02:16:04 rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 02:16:06 What about after it's booted? 02:16:46 wgl: can you get input from the touch-screen etc? I have to boot trough haret (and am willing to try anything on it, as I'd prefer to develop some minor things on it) 02:17:34 Er, this is older than you think. the hp200lx is a dos machine with up to 10 mb disk-like memory in a plug-in card. 02:18:05 jcowan: meaning "it actually runs lisp, if you can believe that" 02:18:22 Hello again. Does anyone here have cl-opengl installed who would be willing to look at a test file? 02:18:23 wgl: I call pun on that one. 02:18:26 Yes, it was a slender jest on my part. 02:18:26 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:18:33 Got me on that one. 02:18:54 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A615.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:18:56 WarWeasle: I have, but not really into it now, you can /msg me for it (and then I'll try to run it later). 02:19:23 I can just upload it to the web code share site. 02:21:28 (I'm not shure how to message people) 02:21:57 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:22:28 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCFA81.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 02:22:31 pkhuong: downloading from that server with axel is pure joy. Poor program apparently had to resort to divination to guess ETA ;D 02:23:08 WarWeasle: /msg madnificent whatever-ye-wants (must have a registered nickname for it) 02:24:49 p_l: perhaps create a lisp OS for ARM/PDA machines? (even late at night, I can't convince myself that someone will try to do it) 02:25:26 madnificent: maybe if I get another PDA. The one I have has to stay with WinMobile :) 02:25:49 *madnificent* waits for the palm pre (and money) 02:26:26 I feel like such a newb, I used to rp all the time...a long time ago... 02:26:27 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 02:26:45 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:00 O_O ... emacs on Windows Mobile... 02:27:07 *madnificent* heads to bed 02:28:27 madnificent: good night 02:28:37 *p_l* thinks he will stay up all night again 02:29:35 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:29:49 2 OSes on a mobile? 02:30:30 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 02:31:19 rullie: well, I was considering hosting inferno inside of WinCE... :D 02:32:06 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:33:02 oh man 02:34:00 saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 02:34:33 it would certainly allow for more seamless experience, when paired with proper Plan B/Octopus cluster :) 02:38:05 -!- CaptPirx2 is now known as CaptPirx 02:38:36 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:48 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:41:02 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:41:03 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:54 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:43:05 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has left #lisp 02:45:28 a-s [n=user@92.80.114.159] has joined #lisp 02:51:58 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 02:56:42 Labadee [n=chatzill@user-0c99lid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:57:10 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:57:48 -!- Labadee 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[i=[3HJCT1F@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 03:51:29 qebab [n=finnrobi@eros.orakel.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 03:51:29 Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-235-220.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:29 Guest82189 [n=user@72.14.228.89] has joined #lisp 03:51:29 krappie [n=brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 03:51:29 johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 03:54:56 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.114.159] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:59:05 schme: not well right now 03:59:16 university has it's toll as well as lack of funding 04:00:28 I hope however to do some more coding on cl-tc (read: bring the Lisp API to live) 04:01:04 Aha. 04:01:55 This seems odd.. Intel wanting to revoke AMD's x86 license. 04:01:55 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:01:56 Hmm. 04:02:23 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 04:02:30 Maybe x86 will finally DIE (: 04:02:49 to be replaced by what? 04:03:00 don't think it will 04:03:14 hefner: God knows. 04:03:29 Though I did see some place selling ARM based desktop machines the other day. That's nice. 04:03:41 Just gotta wait for windows to port vista to it ;) 04:03:53 time to fix the ludicrous IP laws 04:04:17 the idea of an "x86 license" makes about as much sense as charging for air 04:04:29 It says here that intel would not be allowed to use the x86-64 license anymore. 04:04:29 hefner: the license isn't for x86, really 04:04:39 It seems.. not so bright for intel either. 04:04:44 hefner: it's not just x86, but a lot of implementation patents. 04:04:52 hefner: Charging for air is brilliant! 04:05:06 schme: fortunately, I patented that business model. 04:05:11 AFAIK x86 is not licensed, only some new stuff that appeared in last 10 years 04:05:14 darned. 04:05:23 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:05:32 Well. I didn't rtfa here ;) 04:05:48 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:05:54 It seems to me that nothing will happen. Why would intel cut itself off from the x86-64 goodness. 04:05:59 also, it would be fun if intel was forced to stop selling of amd64 cpus 04:06:02 Is it some perverse attempt to get itanium on the desktop? 04:06:19 schme: itanium would be dead if not for HP 04:06:27 Indeed :) 04:06:34 s/HP/carly/ 04:06:41 I'd be less surprised if intel released a repackaged EV7z with QPI ;P 04:07:09 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.253.239] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:07:12 The way I read it intel would have to kill of their i7s and core 2s and whatheck. Sooo... nothing is happening. 04:07:19 -!- tetha [n=hk@pD950FFBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:07:20 tetha_ [n=hk@pD9EE4789.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:32 schme: they would have to kill everything except lowest Atom models 04:07:44 and since they sold their ARM business... 04:08:45 at the same time, I think MS would quite happily drop the anvil on intel by supporting pure 64bit release of amd64 04:08:50 -!- dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:08:53 wherein we discover that the largest group lobbying for maintaining the US patent system are local subsidiaries of chinese firms who ignore them 04:09:06 LOL 04:09:23 I always thought it was american lawyers :P 04:09:59 hefner: That actually makes a lot of sense with the chinese there. 04:10:01 p_l: I doubt AMD has enough volume to fill the void that'd create. Sterile sabre rattling on both sides, most probably. 04:10:14 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.243.119] has joined #lisp 04:11:09 pkhuong: true that. Still, that would be an interesting situations. My code is pretty free from worries about it... 04:11:18 Well. Time to head off and look like I am actually working. Have a good day (: 04:11:20 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 04:12:35 still, derailing x86 might do much good 04:13:07 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-121-125-224.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:01 crink [n=crink@unaffiliated/crink] has joined #lisp 04:15:10 aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has joined #lisp 04:35:15 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:35:25 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:38:11 -!- _death [n=death@bzq-84-110-244-162.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:38:35 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:01 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 04:41:14 hey, i'm gonna start translating formulas from an econometrics text and I have a few integration, function evaluation and other numeric computing stuff from cookbooks (numerical recipes, etc.) i need to compute fractions to just two significant digits. 04:41:14 -!- aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has quit ["KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/"] 04:42:17 are there any CL-related gotchas I should worry about? 04:42:40 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:42:50 Careful not to end up working with ratios and wondering why everything's dog slow. 04:43:23 just stick to floats, right? 04:43:53 but delightfully precise 04:45:00 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 04:45:38 spradnyesh2 [n=pradyus@117.192.9.155] has joined #lisp 04:46:43 dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-154-193.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:41 most of the stuff i need is already in cliki packages; time to evaluate a bunch of libraries i guess :-) 04:48:37 i'm having a small problem with deftype 04:48:37 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-145-79.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:48:44 (deftype my-type () 04:48:44 '(satisfies my-typep)) 04:48:44 (defun my-typep (obj) 04:48:44 (numberp obj)) 04:49:11 (my-typep 1) works fine, but (check-type 1 my-type) doesn't 04:49:17 appreciate any help 04:49:36 check-type gives me an error 04:49:59 spradnyesh2: read the description of CHECK-TYPE. It takes a place, not a value. You might be looking for TYPEP. 04:50:00 btw, am using clisp on linux 04:51:34 pkhuong: that helped; thanks :) 04:51:44 i've got one more question 04:51:53 i'm using slime w/ emacs w/ clisp 04:52:02 i'm not able to single-step through functions 04:52:09 searching the big daddy didn't help much 04:52:14 any pointers please? 04:52:51 I don't use CLISP (or stepping). 04:53:27 pkhuong: what is a good implementation to start learning? 04:53:49 i started w/ clisp + emacs + slime, and it's been going pretty well till now 04:54:07 i can trace through functions, but i'd really like single stepping _through_ the functions 04:54:23 pkhuong: how do you debug, if you don't ever single-step? 04:55:02 BREAK/FORMAT, the inspector, tracing and mostly just thinking. 04:55:08 spradnyesh2: When using SLIME+SBCL, if you compile using (debug 3), you can single step through the function. I also don't know about CLISP, though. 04:55:13 [and good morning everyone] 04:57:46 i have http://pastebin.com/d5a1ef803 in my .emacs file 04:58:03 simply replacing the "clisp" w/ "sbcl" doesn't seem to work 04:58:16 pardon me, but i've just begun lisp+emacs a few days back 04:58:31 is there another way of setting up slime+sbcl? 04:58:31 prabuinet [n=prabuine@122.165.28.253] has joined #lisp 04:58:32 spradnyesh2: is SBCL installed on your machine? 04:58:39 pkhuong: yup 04:58:43 -!- crink [n=crink@unaffiliated/crink] has left #lisp 05:01:16 sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 05:03:06 running slime+sbcl gives me this error: Error while loading: /var/cache/common-lisp-controller/1000/sbcl/swank/fasl/sbcl-1.0.25.debian-linux-x86/swank-sbcl.fasl 05:03:15 this file ain't present on my box 05:03:26 but i notice that it's in /var/cache 05:03:40 shouldn't it be picked from it's source path instead of cache? 05:03:45 spradnyesh2: It is my experience that using the common-lisp-controller creates more problems than it solves. 05:04:44 beach: i didn't really catch what you said, and how do you propose i solve that problem? 05:05:03 slime + clisp works fine for me, except that i can't single-step within functions 05:05:19 minion: tell spradnyesh2 about clbuild 05:05:20 spradnyesh2: please look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 05:05:41 spradnyesh2: well, since I don't know about CLISP, I cannot make single-stepping work for you in that environment. 05:06:11 that's why i tried sbcl (so that i may get more help ;) ) 05:06:16 but that's not working for me 05:06:21 p_l, minion: thanks 05:06:24 spradnyesh2: clbuild will setup the environment for you as long as you have Emacs + SBCL installed on your box 05:06:25 lemme try that out 05:06:57 spradnyesh2: I see from your pathnames that you are using the common-lisp-controller, which I don't know much about, but whenever it has accidentally been installed on one of the computers I use, I have lots of other problems. 05:07:17 in other words, "debian lisp packages considered harmful" 05:07:29 hmm, got it 05:07:33 lemme try the clbuild 05:08:16 http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/ tells me i need darcs, installing darcs first 05:14:16 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@89.244.130.249] has joined #lisp 05:21:26 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:21:31 linode has an ajax unix shell! i can has thoroughly impressed ^_^ 05:25:00 fusss: erm... nothing new? :P 05:25:12 p_l: who else has that? 05:25:22 fusss: anyone who installs AjaxTerm 05:25:38 oh, haha, didn't know there was such a thing :-D 05:26:02 by the way, the ajax syntax-highlighting editor was written by a #lisper 05:26:06 slicehost afaik was one of the first companies to have such a thing connected to Xen Console 05:26:08 phf [n=phf@c-98-231-211-226.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:16 it shows up in some pretty hefty projects, django iirc, etc. 05:26:33 linode in the beginning started with UML, so they had it a little easier methinks :D 05:26:57 Dieter_69 [n=jebat69@ip68-105-115-253.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:12 though linode is a very interesting service :) 05:27:43 hmm... I didn't suspect that I would say "I wish I had done more C++" 05:27:49 if i add slot with initform to a class (by redefining existing one), is there a standard behavior as far as existing objects? 05:28:04 my friend's service is great, i loved it because he tolerated crap (you could run whatever you want on the vps) but had to leave it because other users were doing just that 05:29:04 -!- Dieter_69 [n=jebat69@ip68-105-115-253.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:29:05 fusss: that's kind of how I currently run Lisp for WWW :) 05:29:21 (40 EUR a year? xD) 05:29:47 phf: change-class is called for all the instances of that class 05:30:27 see also update-instance-for-different-class 05:32:22 proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 05:33:15 ooh 05:33:29 phf: no sir, it's not automatically upgraded 05:34:19 fusss pasted "update instance" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77154 05:34:30 -!- spradnyesh2 [n=pradyus@117.192.9.155] has left #lisp 05:35:04 update-instance-for-redefined-class 05:35:10 right, but the unbound slots are set 05:36:00 this looks interesting, i could've sworn i have seen the class redefinition done automatically somewhere (Keene's book?) 05:36:13 *fusss* gets up for the bookshelf 05:36:36 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 05:38:46 phf annotated #77154 "new slot" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77154#1 05:39:06 that's the case i'm looking at. i'm not sure why it's only updated when i reference it though 05:39:21 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/bc7613c092229a5f/a9cb638957a64f0 05:40:05 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 05:41:23 phf: that's some weird ass reaction there 05:41:53 try to evaluate 'a' again and see if it prints B-SET 05:42:07 no 05:42:28 it doesn't do it again, right? good. 05:43:39 you can expect instances of a redefined class to have all the new slots added to them, but we gotta find the rationale for keeping/changing the old slots 05:44:56 Keene, 8.1 05:44:58 -!- p_l [i=plasek@korn.rootnode.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:45:24 right, so i can redefine u-i-f-d-c if i want to merge slots in a custom way 05:45:40 i don't have keene, but i'm looking at amop 05:46:47 "When you redefine a class, CLOS automatically propagates the changes to everything that's affected, including subclasses, instances of the class, and methods for accessors" (P. 140) 05:46:56 NB: Keene != spec 05:47:01 -!- guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:47:01 -!- xyblor [n=nik@206-248-159-20.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:47:01 -!- sepisultrum [n=enigma@ks35219.kimsufi.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:48:47 that cll thread you pasted said u-i-f-r-c will always be called some time between class update and instance access, but it's not guaranteed when 05:49:09 on the next page "When the same slot is specified in both definitions, the value of the slot is preserved" <-- what does this mean? if the slot is present in both definitions and has the same value or if it is present and has different values? 05:49:12 guaqua [i=gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 05:49:16 xyblor [n=nik@206-248-159-20.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:49:22 p_l [i=plasek@korn.rootnode.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:31 sepisultrum [n=enigma@ks35219.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 05:52:26 u-i-f-r-c seems like the sort of thing you should never call yourself. if you find yourself doing that allow you might wanna invest in a new method combination and throw u-i-f-r-c somewhere in the pipeline. 05:52:41 s/allow/allot 05:52:44 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:08 *fusss* has a naked slackware to dress up for a party 05:53:25 and he is a going as a GIRL! ;-) 05:53:32 ... 05:53:56 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 05:55:47 change class first initializes new instance from old one (so in your example c-c sets name of updated *foo* to "foo"), and then u-i-f-r-c is called to do more advanced merge 05:56:16 which by default does initform for all new, unbound slots 05:56:47 in my case change-class didn't change the slot value 05:57:22 change class does not change slot values at all. it simply copies matching slots from old version of instance to a new one 05:58:38 -!- gh7d395pi69wd [n=asdf@d75-157-207-144.bchsia.telus.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:01:52 -!- sepisultrum [n=enigma@ks35219.kimsufi.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:02:34 sepisultrum [n=enigma@ks35219.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 06:03:25 -!- CaptPirx [n=Miranda@p5B03B3DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:05:58 Beket [n=stathis@ppp11-104.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 06:10:17 spradnyesh2 [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-2e4152cbbb9458a4] has joined #lisp 06:10:38 -!- spradnyesh2 [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-2e4152cbbb9458a4] has left #lisp 06:10:59 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:14:32 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:15:00 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 06:18:45 hulo 06:19:16 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp11-104.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:21:50 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:23:40 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 06:27:25 -!- dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-154-193.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:30:10 good morning 06:33:37 morning 06:42:06 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:43:20 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-250-154-57.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:18 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 06:49:23 Good morning. 06:50:52 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:51:30 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 06:56:29 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 06:57:49 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 07:02:20 -!- phf [n=phf@c-98-231-211-226.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 07:06:08 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.156.235] has joined #lisp 07:08:13 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.156.235] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:08:29 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.156.235] has joined #lisp 07:11:48 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.156.235] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:12:18 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.156.235] has joined #lisp 07:16:46 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:17:32 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.156.235] has quit ["All generalizations sucks (including this one)"] 07:17:49 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:18:03 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 07:18:06 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has joined #lisp 07:18:40 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 07:19:08 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.225.129] has joined #lisp 07:19:09 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:19:18 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.225.129] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:19:37 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.225.129] has joined #lisp 07:21:49 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.225.129] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:22:27 -!- Tordek_ [n=tordek@host37.190-227-43.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:23:46 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:27:28 LostMonarch [n=roby@host66-178-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:28:23 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-192.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 07:28:48 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.165.219] has joined #lisp 07:30:11 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.165.219] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:30:26 reaver___ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 07:30:31 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.165.219] has joined #lisp 07:31:12 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.165.219] has quit [Client Quit] 07:31:18 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 07:32:01 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:33:20 ASau` [n=user@host208-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 07:33:53 Hello 07:34:35 -!- proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:34:40 MrSpec: Hello 07:34:41 borism [n=boris@195-50-201-126-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 07:36:28 hmm... anyone did programming for facebook in lisp? 07:37:12 right, there's cl-facebook 07:37:47 -!- saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [] 07:37:50 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:16 good morning 07:38:30 -!- philipp_ [n=philipp@179-35.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:39:22 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 07:39:42 borism__ [n=boris@195-50-205-214-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 07:40:01 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:41:58 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-205-173-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:43:38 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 07:43:42 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 07:43:45 mega1 [n=mega@3e44b24c.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:44:50 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-201-126-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 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timchen119 [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 09:20:54 -!- leadnose [i=leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit ["joo"] 09:21:19 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:30:43 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:30:51 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:33:03 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:34:00 anyone tried memcached with lisp and has things to say about it? 09:35:20 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 09:36:29 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 09:38:14 cracki [n=cracki@6-068.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:39:42 hey dan_b ..yes i have tried memcached with lisp 09:40:00 we use it in production 09:40:34 dan_b: http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-memcached/ 09:41:03 yeah, saw that. was wondering how it compares to other options 09:41:28 e.g. with shared-address-space threads, why not do the caching directly in lisp 09:41:42 (I know, not if you have multiple front-end machines) 09:41:52 and save the talking-over-a-socket overhead 09:42:50 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:43:39 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-179.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:44:02 hmmm.. 09:44:25 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 09:44:46 I've used memcached for 'ugly' things before. it's also a way to have common data between different apps. but inside a single application, it would be easier to use some key/value mapping library 09:44:50 I suppose the obvious benefits of using memcached are that it has been tested by lots of people already (: 09:45:08 which might come in handy with timed cache key expiration and stuff. 09:45:10 well, yeah. that's why I use lisp not php ;-) 09:45:33 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:49:37 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 09:50:22 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:50:26 I suppose my recommendation is that if you need only a really simple cache expiration strategy and you aren't worried about effects of large amounts of live data on GC runtime, do it in-process 09:50:35 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2C80B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:00 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:53:24 some time in the future you should be able to use cl-tc for that as well :D 09:54:13 (when I finish the api) 09:55:19 afk 09:57:34 (now that I think about it, the GC runtime thing would explain in part why it's very popular with ruby projects: there, GC with lots of live data /hurts/) 10:04:49 p_l: cl-tc being ...? 10:06:23 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:07:05 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2D180.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:07:59 -!- cracki [n=cracki@6-068.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:08:47 ah, tokyocabinet 10:10:25 cool, i've been looking at tokyo cabinet too, p_l congrats in advance on finishing the API :) 10:10:51 :) 10:10:54 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:06 the numbers they give in the presentation look promising 10:11:16 1M reads in 300ms is good 10:12:41 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.132.137] has joined #lisp 10:13:21 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-159-16.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 10:13:53 it also has full text search engine Tokyo Dystopia 10:18:22 hmm, that's some serious hackery I did 10:19:31 *mathrick* made a package reflector for FOO-TEST packages, so that it's got all the symbols FOO has, but doesn't pollute FOO's namespace with its own symbols created for testing purposes only 10:20:31 mathrick: sounds useful! 10:20:37 with automatic reloading, so each test always operates on up-to-date symbols 10:20:52 H4ns: yup, I need to package it into a reusable form now 10:24:24 *_3b* still wants a specification-free testing lib 10:25:25 is there a library for artificial neural networks in lisp? 10:26:54 Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-250-154-57.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:23 _3b: what do you mean by that? 10:27:59 <_3b> mathrick: i want to be able to specify a set of tests, and have it tell me when the results change, without specifying a set of 'correct' results to go with the tests 10:28:00 madnificent: are the libraries for real neural networks not sufficient? :> 10:28:36 _3b: hmm, that runs into a problem of storage 10:28:42 and first runs 10:29:09 <_3b> mathrick: yeah, storage, and defining 'changes' are why i haven't written it yet :) 10:29:16 mathrick: oh, didn't find that in cliki 'till now. cl-ctrnn, that is? Are there others I should look at? 10:29:20 <_3b> obviously the first run of a test would constitute a change for that test 10:29:55 madnificent: that's quite a broad area, do you have anything more specific in mind? 10:29:56 TML [n=joey@smit5898.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #lisp 10:29:59 <_3b> idea is that i can add a test, work on it til the answer looks reasonable, then go on to next bit 10:30:00 madnificent: oh, no, disregard me, I was just poking fun at "artificial neural networks" :). I don't have any actual clue about the stuff 10:30:20 mathrick: well, thanks, I found a link because of it :P 10:30:28 you're welcome :) 10:30:40 _3b: yes, but how do I run a testsuite of your shiny lib I just downloaded from the tubes? 10:30:54 all tests would've changed 10:31:18 <_3b> mathrick: presumably i include the current set of 'looks right' results in the repo somewhere 10:31:30 mega1: we're going to have to classify poker players by the type of player there are. We get the data from some games (say 5000), and must learn to identify the types of players (the first three players give us the types for learning purposes, the latter three must be recognised). 10:31:43 _3b: hmm, guess that's an option 10:31:54 so it's a lot like the python REPL testing foo 10:31:57 <_3b> mathrick: i'm more concerned about helping with development than allowings omeone else to verify a checkout though 10:32:18 where you include something that looks like python REPL output in the test docstring, and it tries to match it to the actual output 10:32:24 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-250-154-57.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:32:38 mega1: so, we decided to use an ANN for it. As we aren't forced to use one tool, I'd prefer to use lisp 10:32:55 <_3b> mathrick: possibly, assuming i can automate the creation of the test output 10:32:56 madnificent: is that a school assignment? 10:33:05 mega1: besides an introductory course, we haven't gotten much information about it 10:33:17 mathrick: yes, however, I'm not asking for a solution :P 10:33:25 madnificent: you don't necessarily need NN for that. As much as I don't like SVM that's fastest to get up an running. Look at cl-libsvm. 10:33:26 ah 10:33:46 yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:34:08 mega1: yes, it would be possible... We had to pick a technology, and preferred to use ANN for the learning experience of it. The course doesn't really go in-depth on that subject so 10:34:13 madnificent: I know, I was just curious 10:34:30 madnificent: then look at http://cliki.net/MGL 10:34:56 it won't be as easy as with libsvm, though. 10:35:22 -!- yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:35:55 mega1: I was actually prepared to write one myself, hope mpl is easy to grasp (really, my knowledge is pathetic) 10:36:04 mathrick: yes, they learn us to cheat at school :P 10:36:17 <_3b> oh well, at least i'm to the point where i can actually run the generated code and see if it got the right answer instead of trying to determine if the IR looks like it will compile to something that would get the right answer :) 10:36:39 mega1: mgl is your library? 10:36:47 madnificent: s/learn/teach/ 10:36:47 yes 10:37:15 mathrick: yes, our speech could be improved ;) 10:37:31 not too overdocumented at the moment, but with somes examples and tests 10:37:35 _3b: that must be helpful indeed 10:37:56 madnificent: "our"? Are you borg or some other hive mind? :) 10:38:06 mathrick: multiple students 10:39:55 ah 10:40:02 so you are a scary collective 10:40:02 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:40:46 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A8A1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:41:19 mathrick: care to play around of poker with me and my hive^Bfriends 10:41:56 hmm, why not? 10:41:57 mega1: as my knowledge on the subject is limited, may I ask you some questions about it, when I'm stuck? 10:42:01 texas hold'em? 10:42:32 mathrick: ah, I was joking... the game we have to classify is texas hold'em yes. It seems to be rather popular in this region 10:42:48 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93-40-131-94.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:42:49 it's pretty popular overall 10:43:10 madnificent: sure, but do some research first 10:43:40 it's because it's one of the easiest stud pokers around 10:44:15 p_l: do you have cl-tc somewhere available? 10:44:38 hello 10:44:56 guaqua: http://github.com/unya/cl-tc/tree/master ? 10:45:08 dunno if it's -p_l's repo 10:45:10 mega1: I'm reading an introductory book on ANN, I hope that is enough. If it all gets too complicated, I might as well write all of it myself. Is there anything I should explicitly watch out for? 10:45:17 also, p_l seemingly left 10:45:40 mathrick: thanks 10:47:01 madnificent: nothing in particular, but keep in mind that ANNs is a big topic. For learning, I'd write an implementation of some simple variant myself. 10:47:22 ok, thanks for the information 10:51:00 -!- neerolyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:57:09 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:49 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-135-247.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:02:55 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:59 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #lisp 11:07:05 spradnyesh2 [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-2e4152cbbb9458a4] has joined #lisp 11:08:03 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 11:08:30 hello world 11:09:46 i just moved from clisp to sbcl on some suggestion that i got today morning from this irc itself :) 11:09:58 congratulations 11:10:05 however, i have a very simple code that was running fine in clisp, and is now not running on sbcl :( 11:10:22 lisppaste: url? 11:10:23 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 11:10:34 post an error and your sample code 11:10:36 stassats`: why the congratulations (i'm assuming it's for me). any major benefits? 11:10:44 spradnyesh2: it's fast! 11:10:47 <_3b> changing implementations is always a good way to find out you are doing something subtly wrong :) 11:12:37 Pradnyesh pasted "error w/ sbcl" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77166 11:12:54 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 11:13:07 cool, the lisppaste came directly in here. awesome :) 11:13:07 you need to (:use :cl) in the defpackage 11:13:15 well, (defpackage test) in sbc; doesn't make :use :cl 11:13:45 can i see some documentation regarding this somewhere? 11:13:52 clhs defpackage 11:13:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpkg.htm 11:13:57 thanks 11:13:59 <_3b> or click on defpackage in your pase 11:14:04 <_3b> *paste 11:14:22 thanks you all 11:16:24 -!- reaver___ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has left #lisp 11:16:38 -!- rlpowell [n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:19:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77167 11:19:22 now i'm getting even more errors 11:19:46 because of the first error 11:19:58 plz pardon my lack of knowledge here; have started w/ lisp just a few days back 11:19:59 just restart sbcl and load it anew 11:21:06 thanks stassats` 11:21:41 Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:21:50 -!- rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021906]"] 11:22:09 explanations "why?" requires some understanding of how packages work 11:23:29 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 11:24:05 stassats`: i was about to ask the why part 11:24:08 thanks 11:24:30 is there a sbcl specific guide that i can read somewhere? 11:24:35 are you reading practical common lisp? 11:24:45 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:25:16 spradnyesh2: at this point, general guides would be sufficient 11:25:31 i'm reading "common lisp: an interactive approach" 11:25:47 also, i did a (load "file-name") 11:25:52 and the prompt hasn't returned 11:25:59 how do i ctrl-c ;) it? 11:26:10 ctrl-c 11:26:18 that didn't work :( 11:26:27 that's why i asked 11:26:28 are you using slime? 11:26:42 yup 11:26:48 then twice ctrl-c 11:26:48 emacs + slime + sbcl 11:26:54 even that didn't work 11:27:40 that's strange 11:28:14 cltrl-c twice should work 11:29:20 unless sbcl or slime went south 11:29:39 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:29:45 i've restarted slime, but i shouldn't be needed to do that :( 11:31:27 does load work now? 11:31:47 i'm still having errors here and there 11:31:53 trying to figure them out 11:32:35 if i get a error message which i don't readily understand, where do i look? 11:32:47 ask here 11:33:56 -!- H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:34:56 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:49 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:21 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:42:21 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:22 gzip4 [n=xxx@ws102.zone134.zaural.ru] has joined #lisp 11:55:11 -!- CodeMagus [n=yvon@dualxdrive.com] has quit [] 11:55:38 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483BE32.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:37 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:58:03 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:58:15 H4ns [n=hans@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 11:59:18 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:22 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:24 -!- dys`` is now known as dys 12:01:37 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:09 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:03:14 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:07:13 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:07:23 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 12:08:44 -!- aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:13:11 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:17:19 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.228.134] has joined #lisp 12:17:49 -!- hankhero [n=henrik@c213-89-194-181.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:21:18 deliana [n=deliana@ABordeaux-158-1-71-87.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:22:36 <_3b> yay, (funcall (labels ((x (a) (+ (y (lambda (x) (return-from x (+ a x)))) 1000)) (y (a) (funcall a 10) 1)) #'x) 1) => 11 12:23:00 Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:18 -!- TDT [n=TDT@191.16.63.69.dyn.southslope.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:24:48 <_3b> now i just need to do non-local exits to a tagbody, and implement unwind-protect, and i think i'm done with non-local exits for today :p 12:24:51 TDT [n=TDT@191.16.63.69.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:35 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:36:43 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:36:51 -!- djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:37:20 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:37:29 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 12:39:54 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:40:05 wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-145-79.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:14 blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@220.sub-75-202-101.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:34 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44b24c.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:46:07 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:46:36 -!- prabuinet [n=prabuine@122.165.28.253] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 12:47:50 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087B8F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:45 [[mark]] [n=mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has joined #lisp 12:50:20 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:50:34 <_3b> any given GO form can only go to 1 lexically determined TAGBODY, right? 12:52:38 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:00 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.132.120] has joined #lisp 12:58:16 -!- xan__ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:01:15 ManateeL` [n=user@222.212.132.137] has joined #lisp 13:01:35 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.132.137] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:02:06 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 13:05:23 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:06:57 _3b: "go transfers control to the point in the body of an enclosing tagbody form labeled by a tag eql to tag. If there is no such tag in the body, the bodies of lexically containing tagbody forms (if any) are examined as well. If several tags are eql to tag, control is transferred to whichever matching tag is contained in the innermost tagbody form that contains the go" 13:07:02 doesn't seem to be the case 13:07:16 or, hmm 13:07:33 wait, it's purely lexical, so yes, there's only one match possible 13:07:45 (or zero, but that's undefined) 13:08:00 <_3b> ok, thanks 13:08:47 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:10:51 _3b: but you still need to be careful about extents 13:10:54 mega1 [n=mega@pool-0244f.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:11:20 http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/speope_go.html gives some nice examples of what can happen 13:11:37 <_3b> yeah, adding the dynamic extent stuff is what made me want to recheck that 13:12:19 hmm, one thing I'm not sure about 13:12:56 what if you activated the same TAGBODY twice, and let the inner one's extent pass, then invoked the inner GO 13:13:06 manuel___ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 13:13:26 I just need to invent code to say that] 13:13:32 <_3b> i think that should be valid 13:13:49 I guess 13:14:05 <_3b> not completely sure though 13:14:11 <_3b> that makes my head hurt :) 13:14:36 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:28 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:18:41 <_3b> hmm, sbcl doesn't like it, if my test is valid 13:20:23 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:20:29 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:49 _3b: neither does mine 13:22:01 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 13:22:21 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:22:42 mathrick pasted "GO GO GO" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77173 13:23:26 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 13:23:40 _3b: is your test the same? 13:23:41 _3b annotated #77173 "my version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77173#1 13:23:45 <_3b> similar 13:24:23 <_3b> (maybe, i'm getting confused now) 13:24:34 Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 13:24:46 it seems equivalent 13:26:04 I think the problem here is the interpretation of "lexically enclosing" in the face of dynamic extents and whether two different closures can be said to be "lexically enclosing" 13:27:08 <_3b> wonder if http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Issues/iss152_w.htm covers that case 13:27:57 <_3b> the other question is, is it specified somewhere that that shouldn't work or not 13:28:20 <_3b> don't think my code would object to that currently 13:28:31 tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:48 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:29:20 _3b: hmm, it seems to me the discussion in this issue points to "it shouldn't work", but it's not normative 13:29:35 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:30:53 "The extent of an exit is dynamic; it is not indefinite. The extent of an exit begins when the corresponding form (CATCH, BLOCK or TAGBODY clause) is entered. When the extent of an exit has ended, it is no longer legal to return from it." 13:30:53 "The extent of an exit is not the same thing as the scope of the designator by which the exit is identified." 13:31:38 djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has joined #lisp 13:31:52 wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-4db4259a.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 13:32:02 hello #lisp :) 13:32:07 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 13:32:19 hello 13:32:26 _3b: it could be read as "all of a TAGBODY's GOs are invalidated completely the moment it ends, even if there's another TAGBODY active which was created from the same lexical environment" 13:32:40 what file extension would you suggest for sbcl core images? :> 13:32:52 but again, it's not normative, and I can't find a relevant passage in the spec's body 13:33:06 <_3b> hmm, guess i may need to think a bit more about how to implement my tagbody/go :/ 13:33:28 _3b: you could fire an email to the friendly SBCL hackers :) 13:33:37 I'm sure they've thought about it before 13:33:57 <_3b> or i could just look at the source :) 13:34:34 <_3b> sbcl has more implementation freedom though, i have to go through the VM provided facilities 13:34:37 well, source won't necessarily tell you why it was done the way it was 13:34:39 wakeup: .core ? 13:34:57 kami-: yeah thats not bad :> 13:35:16 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.162.151] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:35:23 _3b: but you said you would be able to provide for the less strict implementation (ie. it's legal to mix-and-match lexically equivalent TAGBODIES), no? 13:36:05 <_3b> right, the way i was going to do it, it would always go the nearest dynamically enclosing instance of that tagbody 13:36:23 <_3b> hmm, i guess that would be wrong too 13:36:50 <_3b> it should go to the one the go came from if called from an inner one when both are valid? 13:37:14 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 13:37:52 whats the difference between "#:bla" and ":bla"? as far as I can see they are interchangable? 13:38:15 wakeup: #:bla is a symbol with no package 13:38:26 wakeup: :blah is a symbol in the KEYWORD package 13:39:08 that's exactly why I'd ask on sbcl-devel :) 13:40:21 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:46:59 <_3b> hmm, might not be too hard to do... if i bind a local var to some unique value on entry to the tagbody, then GO can put that in the exception it throws, and it should get closed over properly if passed to a nested call or returned 13:52:18 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-6-200.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 13:53:30 swank doesn't depend on osicat, does it? 13:53:45 no 13:54:38 strange. I've built an image and upon loading it, I get an error that wrapper.so from osicat cannot be loaded. 13:55:34 the core contains a lot of packages, but none of them contains osicat in their asd file 13:55:54 KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:56:49 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1C668.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:00 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1C74A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:57:49 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:57:54 i'm watching the slime video and trying to install split-sequence using asdf-install 13:58:20 it downloads the package, and untars it, asks me 'key-not-found' and after being told to continue 13:58:35 it says 'component "split-sequence" not found [Condition of type ASDF:MISSING-COMPONENT]" 13:58:39 minion: tell spradnyesh2 about clbuild 13:58:40 spradnyesh2: look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 13:58:40 any suggestions? 13:59:51 that helped, thanks p_l 14:00:19 spradnyesh2: I recommend it always when I see asdf-install... most of my problems disappeared :D 14:00:40 cool 14:01:16 spradnyesh2: key-not-found means you need to add the GPG key to your trusted keyring, or just choose the SKIP-GPG-CHECK restart 14:01:38 yea, that part was self explanatory 14:01:45 i was just trying to give a context ;) 14:01:50 thanks anyways, mathrick 14:02:29 -!- djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:05:02 djkthx [n=yacin@glug.id.iit.edu] has joined #lisp 14:07:07 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has joined #lisp 14:08:53 how do i call the slime-inspector on a package? 14:10:10 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 14:11:03 <_3b> C-c I on the name of the package, or C-c I and enter (find-package "NAME OF PACKAGE") at the prompt 14:12:50 <_3b> (for the first option, put the cursor on the # bit after "It names the package:" and hit enter) 14:14:18 _3b: is that an elle? 14:14:22 <_3b> or if something returned a package at the repl, right click and pick inspect 14:14:33 <_3b> shift-i 14:14:39 oh, thanks 14:15:05 nice :) 14:15:08 <_3b> (one or mor of those options might require loading slime contribs, slime-fancy probably covers them though) 14:15:32 is slime-fancy a pkg that i need to install using clbuild? 14:15:59 <_3b> no, an option to slime-setup... clbuild might do that for you though 14:16:06 ohh, k 14:16:08 thanks 14:17:30 <_3b> yeah, looks like it does 14:22:35 -!- ManateeL` [n=user@222.212.132.137] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:23:10 adityo_ [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 14:23:56 -!- prxq [n=mommer@Xddc9.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:24:56 prxq [n=mommer@Ze1fd.z.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 14:27:00 blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:42 edmond [n=vuong@222.253.72.222] has joined #lisp 14:35:57 schmx [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:37:21 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:38:03 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:40:43 -!- Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [] 14:40:55 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 14:43:24 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 14:50:42 -!- spradnyesh2 [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-2e4152cbbb9458a4] has left #lisp 14:51:59 jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:50 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:55:46 -!- plan9 [n=stian@arachnotron.sletner.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:58:14 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-6-200.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:58:46 -!- topo [n=topo@87.223.39.79] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:00:40 jollygood_ [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 15:00:42 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:03:02 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:54 -!- crod [n=cmell@x250049.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:09:12 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 15:09:53 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:35 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:11:28 crod [n=cmell@y192011.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 15:11:36 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:49 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:16:10 milanj [n=milan@93.87.143.212] has joined #lisp 15:19:14 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 15:21:11 So yesterday's puzzle where sbcl would not read the .sbclrc file has been identified. This is on the mac, and apparently if you have a mac format file with \r separating lines rather than \n, sbcl doesn't grok the file. Or rather the comment at the beginning is presumed to go all the way through the end. 15:25:09 One might think that sbcl would be able to properly read this. 15:25:25 But more importantly, how is it that emacs wrote this bogus format? 15:26:08 -!- adityo_ [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["bbyr"] 15:31:42 wgl: maybe it recognised you are on mac? 15:33:23 p_l: did you have cl-tc somewhere? 15:33:27 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 15:34:09 emacs has advanced DWIM 15:34:22 -!- jollygood_ [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:34:25 though sometimes it's more DWRMSM or even DWESRM 15:34:33 :D 15:34:44 now, if we knew what these accronymes meant 15:34:45 the latter is far worse in my experience 15:34:52 minim: dwim? 15:34:58 interesting error there 15:34:59 minion: dwim? 15:35:01 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``dwim''. 15:35:04 er, year 15:35:06 lol 15:36:43 guaqua: github i think 15:37:03 guaqua: http://github.com/unya/cl-tc/tree/master 15:37:14 so that's the one? 15:37:37 thanks :) 15:38:07 if you're using xemacs you get DWJWZM 15:39:36 -!- manuel___ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 15:40:22 *dcrawford* (on lightbulb) 15:40:47 clearly we should all write our personal Emacs clone 15:42:13 guaqua: http://github.com/unya/cl-tc/tree (disclaimer, it's very much in the beginning stages, I won't take blame if it crashes hard) 15:42:50 it does the C API correctly, I think 15:43:06 but there's no test suite :) 15:43:12 p_l: i'm probably going to take a stab at it when i get my next project going 15:43:28 rsynnott? said something about making an elephant backend 15:44:12 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.132.120] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:45:11 lispien [n=user@salle207.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 15:46:53 right now the important thing will be probably to write the lisp API and simplify callbacks 15:47:11 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:15 -!- lispien [n=user@salle207.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:47:25 fe[nl]ix: clemacs? 15:47:46 madnificent, you know about climacs right? 15:48:00 oh no 15:48:03 fenlixmacs 15:48:08 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:48:17 dcrawford: I was just hinting a name, as emacs isn't common lisp... but yes 15:48:54 fe[nl]ix: sigh, I'll have to fork your fenlixmacs and rename it 15:50:06 dcrawford: sadly, a great part of the emacs goodness are the prewritten plugins 15:51:12 Maybe someone will write an elisp-implementation in Common Lisp :) 15:51:41 ingvar already has 15:51:48 ? 15:51:54 don't know how bit-rotted it is by now 15:52:07 but it was somewhat functional... targeted hemlock, IIRC 15:52:12 jfactor [n=john@c-71-230-33-184.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:40 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:54:02 Greetings! 15:54:20 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:54:44 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:56 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 15:56:00 dcrawford, The-Kenny: http://www.cliki.net/Portable%20Hemlock <- that one 15:56:50 kiuma [n=kiuma@host75-233-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:57:11 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:07 -!- ASau` [n=user@host208-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Uff."] 16:02:17 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 16:03:20 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:03:56 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:06:31 disismt [n=user@124.124.233.5] has joined #lisp 16:07:11 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:07:51 p_l: the odd thing is, that it doesn't do this for anything except files that begin with dot. other files are fine. 16:08:09 minion: logs 16:08:10 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 16:08:41 afk 16:09:08 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:10 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93-40-131-94.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 16:10:30 Heh, by the time I opened the log, the response from minion was the last entry. 16:11:59 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 16:13:25 Hi tmh 16:13:48 By defining a slot in a structure :READ-ONLY T, that slot has become immutable, barring binding it to something with a binding to another symbol, correct? 16:14:28 Hey LiamH, thanks for the advertisment! I added a TODO file to the LISP-UNIT repository. Try to focus the development. 16:15:03 I guess, strictly speaking, the slot binding is immutable, not the contents? 16:15:12 tmh: good idea 16:15:50 kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:15 LiamH: I've already edited the original LISP-UNIT documentation to take out references to Dr. Riebeck's CS course. Now, I just need to add the entries for the extensions. I think that will go a long way towards making it accessible to others. 16:16:31 Shouldn't take more than an hour or so. 16:17:00 clop [n=jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:16 Back to structures, if all of the slots are :READ-ONLY t, then the structure is effectively immutable? 16:17:25 tmh: great. Still no explanation why it doesn't show up in repo.or.cz. I posted something on #git and the only response was that it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to show up. 16:17:33 if i do something like (let ((val (gethash place tbl))), can i later do a setf of val and have it write into the table? or do i have to do another gethash? 16:18:05 you can't 16:18:19 LiamH: Yeah, that is really odd. I sent Petr an email a day before you. Hopefully with your email, he'll look into it and get it in the directory. 16:18:34 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:21:16 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:21:38 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93-40-131-94.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:24:26 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:25:37 appletizer [i=user@82-45-11-54.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:25:49 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 16:26:58 LiamH: I think I'll hop over to #git and see if something I did when I opened the repository created the issue. 16:27:21 tmh: OK 16:27:57 -!- TDT [n=TDT@191.16.63.69.dyn.southslope.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:28:12 TDT [n=TDT@191.16.63.69.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:26 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 16:29:37 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:31:31 On the topic of immutable structures, don't these satisfy a lot of what people are looking for in terms of immutability? 16:31:47 Buehler... Buehler... 16:32:44 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 16:35:24 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:38 -!- kmcorbett [n=Keith@c-76-119-215-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:40:10 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 16:41:06 dbdkmezz [n=mezz@78-86-79-91.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:41:53 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:42:41 mezz_ [n=mezz@78-86-79-91.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:43:08 I'm trying to do M-x slime, and I get the following error: ;; Error while loading: /home/rossd/.slime/fasl/2008-08-31/sbcl-1.0.23-linux-x86/contrib/swank-presentation-streams.fasl 16:43:09 ;; Condition: Lock on package SB-IMPL violated when interning INDENTING-STREAM. 16:43:26 update your slime 16:43:32 Ah 16:43:47 it's so 2008ish 16:44:21 I don't think it's absolutely required to delete the .slime/fasl directory, but that wouldn't hurt, either, after an update. 16:44:51 it will safe disk-space 16:45:53 save 16:47:19 ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.73.179] has joined #lisp 16:47:26 blitz_ [n=blitz@2002:8d4c:3001:48:216:d3ff:feb0:58e0] has joined #lisp 16:48:02 good morning 16:49:55 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 16:50:33 spradnyesh2 [n=pradyus@117.192.2.15] has joined #lisp 16:50:45 -!- spradnyesh2 [n=pradyus@117.192.2.15] has quit [Client Quit] 16:51:51 Lispster [n=jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:35 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:54:38 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:57:27 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:57:44 Anyone online who is an elephant user? 16:59:25 willb [n=wibenton@wireless297.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:59:28 Anyone using emacs here? I'm trying to do bind a function with an optional argument... I thought it would be like this (global-set-key (kbd "C-c r") '(revert-buffer :noconfirm t)) but it isn't working. Where am I mistaken? 17:00:03 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:00:06 it can take a function name or a lambda form 17:00:07 (global-set-key 17:00:07 (kbd "C-c r") (lambda () (interactive) (revert-buffer :noconfirm t))) 17:00:09 wgl: I'm an elephant newbie :-) 17:00:11 not a function call. 17:00:22 but the real mistake is that #emacs is -> over there (-: 17:01:38 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 17:02:36 thanks a lot! I asked here because I've already bothered #emacs enough for today, hehe 17:03:40 erm 17:06:04 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 17:08:17 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:47 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:53 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:09:22 -!- clop [n=jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:10:16 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:11:07 Is it OK to build SBCL in an x86 chroot hosted in an x86-64 machine? 17:11:34 build and you'll see 17:11:38 sulo [n=sulo@p57B4B65C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:11:54 ebzzry: should work; works for me regularly (: 17:12:06 rstandy: I am less than a newbie. What I am wondering is if elephant is always on the same box as the program using it, or if it has some network API. 17:12:07 the intricacies of signal handling discussed on that fa.linux.kernel thread make me shudder to think what sort of additional nastiness is going on in darwin, trying to handle bsd-style signals and mach exceptions at the same time... 17:12:19 is anyone familiar with lush? 17:12:23 except now that you bring it up, I've seen a few failures with recent cvs head. let me check 17:12:40 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:49 stassats`: I did. The bootstrapping SBCL has (machine-type) => "X86". I fetched 1.0.25, did a build and it died unexpectedly with "backtrace.c:613: Error: bad register name `%rbp'" near the bottom 17:12:51 ah, huh, just something related to my gcc installation. it will work for you. 17:12:56 Modius [n=Modius@99.179.101.167] has joined #lisp 17:13:12 ebzzry: you need to make sure uname reports i686 or similar 17:13:14 no x86_64 17:13:29 antifuchs: uname reports x86_64 17:13:30 SBCL_ARCH=x86 sh make.sh 17:13:39 well, there you go. jsnell has the answer. 17:13:40 jsnell: I'm going to try that. 17:13:44 cipher: I've only looked over the website, never actually used it. I get intrigued by it every once in a while, but always decide to stick with CL. 17:13:52 wgl: afaik, elephant add persistence to objects defined in a Lisp Image thorugh MOP and various backends 17:14:19 wgl: some of theese backends, like mysql and postgresql can be accessed remotely, sure 17:14:45 lush seems to be more oriented towards "get it running fast" tools 17:14:46 -!- mezz_ [n=mezz@78-86-79-91.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:14:46 -!- dbdkmezz [n=mezz@78-86-79-91.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:15:03 wgl: but I've never user them, I tried only the Berkley DB backend 17:15:04 p_l: as in optimized fast, or prototyping time fast 17:15:36 cipher: I think as in "and cost skyrocketed" :P 17:15:53 it appears to try to get prototyping time fast with reasonable speed fast 17:17:01 *p_l* wonders what HR dept. thinks of his trolling 17:17:52 wgl: is that the kind of network access you are looking for? 17:18:58 wgl: I think elephant itself gets simply loaded into lisp image, but if the backend db supports networked operation, then it should work over net too 17:19:43 jocke__ [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has joined #lisp 17:19:49 saikat_ [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 17:19:58 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@ppp-70-250-154-57.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:20:28 So it seems that if I have lisp image running elephant and I want to expose that to other boxes, I need to add some connectivity code. Particularly if use the cl-persistance method. And for the other methods, doesn't make sense to bypass elephant. 17:21:05 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 17:22:56 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:23:06 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 17:23:20 jsnell: It built successfully. Thanks for the tip. 17:23:39 wgl: think of elephant as library to access object database, which can be also stored remotely through some backends (mysql, postgresql) 17:23:42 wgl: why not use the postgresql backend? 17:24:26 or hell, since it's 'lets make a database system out of a table in a database system', use mysql.. it gets that much right i suppose. 17:24:50 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-27-195.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:34 *drewc* would prefer you use a proper database with contraints, types, and all those goodies, but developers are scared of databases for some reason. 17:27:16 probably because someone told them mysql was a database ;) 17:28:13 or use a library that doesn't pretend to be a RDBMS 17:29:08 asn [n=fafa@gentoo/developer/asn] has joined #lisp 17:29:55 nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:51 quick stupid question: In C, if you want to talk about a function you will say: write(). In Lisp, is (getf) the right way to write it? 17:31:02 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:31:21 GETF 17:31:25 asn: no, GETF 17:31:31 no parens, all caps 17:31:45 aw alright :) 17:31:46 thanks 17:31:54 asn: and thanks for asking! 17:31:58 mezz_ [n=mezz@78-86-79-91.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:32:20 you little polite gentleman, you! 17:33:32 :D 17:34:00 who says #lisp is mean and full of yobbos?! lies! 17:34:52 -!- mezz_ [n=mezz@78-86-79-91.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 17:35:13 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-121-125-224.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:35:17 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:39:22 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:40:24 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:40:47 mezz_ [n=mezz@78-86-79-91.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:41:07 Well, the stuff going in is not really in a relational model, so probably not rather set up myslq, but the lisp storage backend. 17:42:03 _death [n=death@bzq-84-110-253-127.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:59 -!- jocke__ [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has quit ["Lämnar"] 17:46:10 -!- edmond [n=vuong@222.253.72.222] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:47:53 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.228.134] has left #lisp 17:49:32 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ae883946ea60cb83] has joined #lisp 17:50:59 I was thinking of the cl-prevalence back end. 17:51:19 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:28 -!- mega1 [n=mega@pool-0244f.externet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:54:19 bdowning_ [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:23 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:55:17 -!- bdowning_ is now known as bdowning 17:55:20 -!- Cel` [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:57:04 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:57:18 bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:29 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:42 wgl: an interesting db might be CouchDB, too 17:59:42 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:59:50 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:00:51 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:00:59 Interesting. 18:01:26 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@host75-233-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 18:03:57 couchdb is nice if you don't know your schema in advance 18:04:05 and it also scales :) 18:04:11 -!- ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@97-89-230-116.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:05:35 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@97-89-230-116.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:38 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 18:05:53 i have to note that the largest and most scalable lisp system i was ever involved with used an rdbms. 18:06:09 just not mysql. 18:07:37 postgre? 18:08:02 *p_l* wonders if there's a Rdb client for CL 18:08:14 last year scott was pining for mysql (-: 18:08:31 antifuchs: i think i gave up on it 18:08:54 antifuchs: but i'm not sure! 18:08:57 on what? (: 18:09:33 that same conversation also had the understatement of the year: "they just didn't have a convincing disaster recovery story" 18:09:35 -!- ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.73.179] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:10:24 antifuchs: disaster recovery? MySQL? is that entry for some sick ASR posting? :D 18:10:50 no, it didn't get so far as get deployed 18:11:16 so well. apparently the hackers they had over changed the subject every time that it brought up (: 18:11:16 antifuchs: postgresql is the better choice to replace The Beast, imo... 18:11:42 drewc: hey, I've put its disaster recovery thing to the test a few times (: 18:11:58 love wal log shipping 18:12:18 but well, centisecond response times could be better (: 18:12:34 ha 18:14:06 drewc: thanks for the quick project creation 18:14:31 drewc: a different question: How can I open a support ticked for common-lisp.net? Is mail to admin@ the only way, or I can access the RT directly? 18:14:36 rlpowell [n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 18:14:42 *ticket 18:16:00 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 18:16:15 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:17:03 lichtblau: mail is the way. 18:17:27 thanks. 18:17:48 lichtblau: glad i could help! 18:19:31 saikat_ [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 18:20:44 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 18:23:06 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:24:12 -!- schmx [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 18:24:30 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:24:36 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93-40-131-94.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 18:26:01 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:01 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:58 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 18:32:32 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:32:43 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-198-192.we.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:12 schmx [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:37:19 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:40:01 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:40:14 Beket_ [n=stathis@adsl-250-034.diodos.auth.gr] has joined #lisp 18:40:37 -!- mezz_ [n=mezz@78-86-79-91.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:40:48 -!- Beket_ [n=stathis@adsl-250-034.diodos.auth.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:41:38 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 18:45:36 guusano_ [n=nonamme@h-64-105-73-53.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:37 hi 18:46:39 by which factor has a lisp coded app reduced ram footprint compared to the same app in C? 18:46:54 17 million 18:47:02 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:47:09 -!- xyblor [n=nik@206-248-159-20.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:47:20 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 18:47:33 seriously? 18:47:44 no. were you seriously asking? 18:48:12 let's say firefox. FF is now a slow bloated pig. 18:48:16 yes 18:48:22 and nobody has rewritten it in CL yet 18:48:23 I mean, if it matters 18:48:29 When you rewrite Firefox in Common Lisp, you can find out! 18:48:33 unwritten software is bug-free and performs as speed of mouth 18:48:43 (thanks, H4ns, for that one (-:) 18:48:46 "at speed" 18:48:50 I was saying in a hypothetical scenario obviously 18:49:07 guusano_: if you can find a comparable program, you'll find out 18:49:08 and he gave a hypothetical answer 18:49:33 antifuchs: it's not mine, but i'm the messenger from way back in the past :) 18:49:41 that's what I am saying, what are the experience in general here? 18:49:51 it's an excellent guide to the viability of ideas (: 18:49:55 apple, meet orange 18:49:58 guusano_: you can make bloated pigs in any language. 18:50:02 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:50:08 guusano_: the general experience is that software tends to bloat, given enough time. 18:50:11 surely guusano_ is gavino 18:50:17 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:50:19 no-one else would ask such a completely stupid question 18:50:42 guusano_: impossible to say 18:50:44 I sense flawed logic (-: 18:50:59 but the similarity is striking 18:51:11 .I guess I'll give it a shot 18:51:23 Gavino is extremely peculiar. Having dealt with Gavino for a couple of years learning to recognize his mannerisms (under various disguises), I don't think guaqua is gavino. 18:51:25 common lisp image tends to take up quite a bit of ram. on the other hand, the modern browsers take up loads of ram too 18:51:36 Riastradh: :( 18:51:41 because I want to make an app for the psp an has 32M ramm 18:51:53 Riastradh: you meant guusano_? 18:52:00 ah, a reason 18:52:12 Um, yes, I meant guusano_. What I wrote was not `guaqua' but `gu '. 18:52:22 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-9-201.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:52:34 I am not a so-called gavino 18:52:35 can I parse "yy/mm/dd hh:mm:ss" time strings with local-time? 18:52:58 modified question: can an app work w/ <32MB ram ... reply: what kind 18:53:02 is there lisp for embedded devices? 18:53:03 Is there a way to export all exported symbols of a certain package? Or do I have to export each symbol manually? 18:53:21 exported symbols are already exported? 18:53:29 really? The "arrive on IRC and ask a question to which there is no sensible answer" mannerism is striking to me 18:53:37 you may of course be right 18:54:23 stassats`: ex) Package A depends on Package B, and I want to make package A to export all exported symbols of package B. 18:54:25 make sense? 18:54:33 tomoyuki28jp: re-export, you mean? you can use with-package-iterator and export for that 18:54:33 tomoyuki28jp: anyway, you have LOOP, and DO-EXTERNAL-SYMBOLS 18:54:46 tomoyuki28jp: pretty much anything under the sky 18:54:50 tomoyuki28jp: http://dl.qj.net/PSP/catid/106 18:54:56 guusano_: http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/search.pl?query=embedded+lisp 18:55:58 dcrawford: : http://dl.qj.net/PSP/catid/106 18:56:01 Hello. I have an interesting choice: take my school's OS course, or work through an Andrew S. Tanenbaum book (implement minux). What would I have to do to set up an environment where I could implement minux in a lisp, preferebly common lisp? 18:56:02 Krystof: I was thinking of a syllogism like "gavino asks stupid questions on IRC. A person has asked a stupid question on IRC. Therefore, that person is gavino" (: 18:56:21 well, yes 18:56:26 mooglenorph: it's minix! 18:56:30 (I am not gavino. Just stupid.) 18:56:38 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:56:41 but you did make a good point about behavioral similarities (: 18:56:46 I look forward to the movie 18:56:49 "I am not gavino" 18:56:49 mooglenorph, a text editor? 18:57:04 you gotta love freenode 18:57:12 statistics has you, impostor! 18:57:17 *antifuchs* giggles 18:57:38 guusano_: sorry, as Krystof said, we are used to getting our share of crackpots here 18:58:18 #lisp looked the least place where to find crackpets 18:58:34 hi, how do I make a backtrace with sbcl? 18:58:40 egn: (apropos "BACKTRACE") 18:59:12 guusano_, it is because of a surgically applied helping of kick 18:59:50 heh, crackpets 19:00:02 gavino -- our pet crack 19:00:08 I mean, is there a CL that runs on bare hardware? Can I generate a core with SBCL that will run without linux? 19:00:10 guusano_: people often attempt to troll with behaviour which looks suspiciously similar to yours. I value the reasonably high SNR here, so I tend to kick first and ask questions later 19:00:20 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:21 mooglenorph: nyef has worked on that. Also look at movitz 19:00:25 I guess if a crackpot sticks around long enought, (s)he becomes a crackpet. 19:01:26 Krystof: okay. I will read about both of those and see if I can manage. Thanks very much. 19:01:27 mooglenorph: Here are some keywords you can use in your favorite search engine: MOVITZ EMBEDDABLE COMMON LISP 19:01:31 antifuchs: stassats`: with-package-iterator and do-external-symbols both works fine. thanks! 19:01:31 guusano_, you could see if there's a cl compiler available for the hardware and try it out 19:01:39 tmh: thanks 19:01:47 tomoyuki28jp: you didn't try LOOP! 19:01:54 -!- schmx [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 19:02:01 guusano_: NP 19:02:20 stassats`: How can I use loop macro for that purpose? 19:02:26 anyone know what works on mips linux? (google says psp is mips R4000 19:02:35 (loop for symbol being the external-symbol in :cl do (print symbol)) 19:02:40 -!- comexk is now known as comex 19:02:43 htere's a lisp mips port 19:02:53 ecl or clisp might be compileable for it 19:03:00 dcrawford: there's linux port already 19:03:20 this now falls under let there be joy and code 19:03:27 but I was looking more for XMB and not linux 19:04:07 stassats`: thanks! 19:04:12 guusano_: ECL will probably compile... 19:04:21 stassats`: but that one is shorter (do-external-symbols (s (find-package 'package)) (print s)) 19:04:47 tomoyuki28jp: yep 19:05:09 is ecl generally usable for applications? does someone use it here? 19:05:15 p_l: I look into that 19:05:17 stassats`: By the way, how long have you been using lisp for? I am just curious because you know a lot about lisp. 19:06:00 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-201.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 19:06:15 tomoyuki28jp: 2 or 3 years, i just have plenty of free time and there are some parts which i don't fully understand yet 19:06:17 guaqua: well, I'm playing with using it for certain applications. Appears stable but due to compiling to C etc. it might not be the same experience you have with, lets say, SBCL :) 19:06:21 my priority of lisps would probably start sbcl ccl clisp and go from there, other priorities might bump ecl or maybe abcl 19:06:49 p_l: ahh, that's quite interesting 19:06:53 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 19:07:33 stassats`: I was thinking you have used list more. Interesting. Glad to hear that. thanks. 19:08:31 dcrawford: abcl has made great progress last half year. 1400 test failures with Maxima in august/september, roughly 150 now. 19:09:01 (which isn't due to reduced tests in Maxima) 19:09:15 guaqua: afaik it's pretty feature complete when it comes to ANSI CL... it's always the rest that makes problems :D 19:09:41 stassats`: so why do you have plenty of free time? (if you don't mind to answer.) I am just curious. 19:10:38 p_l: okay. the embeddability sounds nice, though 19:10:53 if i use ~? in a format-string i have to provide a format-control-string 19:12:08 can i mix format-directives with arbitary characters in the format-control-string? 19:12:34 or am i only allowed to use format-directives in there? 19:15:53 string without format-directives is nevertheless format-control-string, isn't it? 19:16:21 no idea how format handles such a case 19:16:26 so (format t "~?" "ABC" nil) should work 19:18:42 so your example should work out to "ABC" 19:19:25 or rather (format t "~@?" "ABC") 19:20:10 Adamant [n=Adamant@97.66.126.2] has joined #lisp 19:20:33 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:20:55 but since it has no format-directives, why use ? instead of A? 19:20:58 when doing M-x slime, is there a way I can specify a file to be loaded before the rest of the slime stuff? 19:21:02 Is there a way to export symbol with loop macro in defpackage like this? I heard that we should not use export function to export each symbol manually. 19:21:11 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-201.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 19:21:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77195 19:21:58 dysinger_ [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:22:05 you can write a macro 19:22:12 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:22:38 tomoyuki28jp: and did you see my private messages? 19:22:38 stassats`: yes 19:22:54 is there a library where I can find some time parsing functions which would allow me to easily parse a "mm/dd/yy hh:mm:ss" string? 19:23:30 stassats`: oh, I am just aware of your message 19:24:04 I am trying to set up a lisp development xen domU 19:24:11 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:26:54 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 19:27:20 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 19:29:09 guusano_, on tech.coop ? 19:29:33 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 19:29:48 so are we -- so far, we "just" compile our own sbcl in /usr/local 19:30:35 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 19:31:31 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:32:36 someguy23234 [n=user@h69-128-203-161.cncrtn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:22 *p_l* just dropped bindist of lichtblau's branch into hist ~/sbcl 19:33:27 *his 19:33:37 Is there a library of immutable data structures for common lisp? 19:34:13 fset afaik gave functional set implementation 19:34:16 fset? 19:34:46 also, you can do it yourself by avoiding SETF and the like 19:34:57 kami-: (defun parse (string) (loop repeat 6 with integer and end = -1 do (setf (values integer end) (parse-integer string :start (1+ end) :junk-allowed t)) collect integer)) 19:35:05 (parse "03/17/09 22:27:35") => (3 17 9 22 27 35) 19:35:34 stassats`: thank you. was just fiddling with sth like that :) 19:35:52 Fare: what do you mean by tech coop? 19:35:55 Cool, that's a start. 19:36:24 someguy23234: basically CL is more of a "you can make whatever language you want from it" :) 19:36:34 How about trees? Hash tables aren't much use without setf. 19:36:56 philipp [n=philipp@179-35.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:37:09 wasn't getting functional Red-Black trees rather common experience? 19:38:03 p_l: what? 19:38:42 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:38:57 plus see clojure for an example of "immutable" hash tables 19:39:12 Is it possible to enforce immutability in CL, or are these libraries immutable by contract? 19:39:15 someguy23234: Red-Black Trees are afaik rather commonly used for internal representation of "maps" in functional languages 19:39:42 p_l: yes, but not in Cl (unless I missed somthing) 19:39:55 tmh: just imagine that you ought to pay a dollar every time you modify a structure 19:39:59 dcrawford: That's what got me interested. 19:40:21 someguy23234: well, you can implement an immutable map using trees 19:41:01 stassats`: That's an monotonically decreasing deterrent. :-) 19:41:24 s/an/a 19:41:35 ok, double the cost every time :) 19:41:35 tmh: ok, i could take money from you for real 19:41:40 tmh: imagine that you have to pay 1 SDR for every time you do that 19:42:09 p_l: I'm thinking about it; Wanna make sure there's nothing out there first. 19:42:19 minion: fset? 19:42:20 fset: FSet is a functional set-theoretic collections library. http://www.cliki.net/fset 19:42:45 In DEFSTRUCT, slots have a :READ-ONLY option. The same is not so of DEFCLASS, but you can flag programs that incur mutation as unreliable by forcing them to use unexported symbols from your package. 19:43:09 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:43:36 Riastradh: it would be trivial to create a READ-ONLY-STANDARD-CLASS metaclass in CLOS as well. 19:44:09 Is enough of the MOP standard for that to work with what ANSI CL provides? 19:44:10 Riastradh: I asked several questions related to :READ-ONLY earlier. The :READ-ONLY really means a read-only binding, because you could bind the slot of the structure to a data object that is bound to something else. Or am I mistaken? 19:44:35 Sorry, I don't understand your use of the word `bind'. 19:44:44 Riastradh: no, not at all. It requires MOP, which is not ANSI, though is standard. 19:44:59 you mean, you can store a cons and modify it? 19:45:50 Riastradh: I mean on construction of the structure, you bind the slot that is :READ-ONLY to say an array that is bound to some other symbol as well. 19:46:26 A *name* can be bound to a *meaning*. Objects are not bound; nor are slots. 19:46:41 Riastradh: I apologize for my sloppy jargon. 19:46:46 Are you asking about constructing a structure with a mutable object in a read-only slot of the structure? 19:46:49 tmh: why would you do that if you are using immutable data structures? You should not be using arrays if you want immutability. 19:47:29 'can i break immutabilty by using mutable data structures?' 'yes.' 19:47:47 If you want to make sure that your data structure is not modified, don't expose modifiers. 19:47:47 Draggor: You can put stuff in ~/.swank.lisp 19:48:39 tcr: thank ye kindly 19:49:35 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:49:41 hmm, nope, that didn't seem to work 19:50:38 kami-: or (defun parse (string) (mapcar (lambda (start) (parse-integer string :start start :junk-allowed t)) '(0 3 6 9 12 15))) 19:53:25 or better (loop for i to 15 by 3 collect (parse-integer string :start i :end (+ i 2))) 19:55:26 drewc: I don't need it in practice, I was just wondering if there were ways to fake immutability on mutable data structures, such as arrays, in a way that for all intensive purposes made them immutable. 19:56:16 tmh: yes, of course there is. Don't expose accessors that mutate. 19:56:36 "intents and purposes" 19:56:50 Riastradh: Would you expand on the *name* being bound, but not the slot in light of the function SLOT-BOUNDP? 19:59:27 tmh: if you want to makes sure j-random-programmer doesn't figure out your immutable sequence is a lisp array and decide to use #'(SETF AREF) on it... 19:59:29 jao [n=jao@148.Red-83-39-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:46 tmh: you can't .. this is lisp. It's about freedom. 20:00:11 :: wins 20:01:31 dcrawford: a dice game? 20:02:12 no, in lisp freedom -- foo::bar will always trump "hiding" 20:02:42 drewc: I don't want to do that in practice. I do want to use that "goal" of immutability as a device for better understanding CL. That's it. 20:03:35 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:03:50 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 20:04:15 tmh: immutability is not a feature of CL, so i don't quite understand how it would help to understand CL. OTOH, the implementation of something like FSET will teach you quite a bit. 20:05:23 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:52 I'd quite like an evil implementation to actually inforce immutability of literals 20:05:54 I'm almost tempted to work on it 20:06:13 > (set-car! '(a . b) 'c) 20:06:14 Error: vm-exception 20:06:14 (set-car! '(a . b) 'c) 20:07:16 (That's Scheme48.) 20:07:30 drewc: Thinking about how to fake a feature that is not part of a language helps me better understand the language. Pushing up against the boundaries of the language gives one a better appreciation of it. I've seen FSET referenced frequently, lately. I think I need to look at it. 20:08:37 p_l: thanks, I didn't realize that fset had maps. It's just what I wanted. 20:09:03 tmh: indeed, because you'll have to push a lot before you come near the barriers of lisp .. immutability itself is a barrier, not a feature .. you can see that yes? 20:09:29 drewc: the immutability of certain data structures in conforming code _is_ a feature of CL 20:09:39 have a look at clhs quote 20:11:27 Is there any nice way to iterate over a multidimensional array with format? 20:11:35 Krystof: true enough, but in the context of already mutable structures there is nothing the CLHS can offer you. 20:13:20 Krystof: and one might argue that not being able to modify a quoted literal is a barrier imposed by the compiler, but that's not an argument i'd want to get into :) 20:15:11 -!- TML [n=joey@unaffiliated/tml] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:15:42 someguy23234: no. (I don't even think there's a nice way to iterate over a 1d array with format) 20:16:01 Krystof: actually wait... immutability of quoted literals is not required by ANSI, it's just that mutation is undefined. 20:17:06 Krystof: i'd expect a requirement to throw an error if the intention was to enforce immutability rather than allow constant folding. 20:18:02 Krystof: still, conforming code cannot modify a literal, so the end result is the same, i suppose. 20:18:15 but a conforming implementation could allow it. 20:18:46 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:18:48 regardless, it's lunch time. bbiab 20:19:45 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:39 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@2002:8d4c:3001:48:216:d3ff:feb0:58e0] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:25:48 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:26:49 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has quit [] 20:28:30 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-9-201.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:32:10 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [No route to host] 20:33:19 ejs [n=eugen@190-120-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:22 -!- someguy23234 [n=user@h69-128-203-161.cncrtn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has left #lisp 20:35:15 guusano_, tech.coop is a lisp-friendly provider of xen-based virtual hosting. 20:35:30 drewc can tell you more about it 20:36:58 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-192.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:40:46 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-38-23.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:41:19 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:41:19 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:42:54 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has left #lisp 20:43:01 I once read about a lib which allowed to run a binary program and abstracted away the differences between the CL implementations. Could somebody point me to it, please? 20:43:35 minion: cl-launch? 20:43:35 cl-launch: cl-launch is a unix utility to make your Lisp software easily invokable from the shell command-line. http://www.cliki.net/cl-launch 20:44:04 a-s [n=user@92.80.114.159] has joined #lisp 20:44:08 stassats`: thanks, but I mean starting a binary from inside lisp code. 20:44:17 oh 20:44:22 minion: trivial-shell 20:44:23 trivial-shell: Trivial shell is a simple platform independent interface to the underlying Operating System. http://www.cliki.net/trivial-shell 20:44:37 stassats`: yes! thanks! 20:45:50 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 20:47:00 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:59 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-135-247.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 20:53:42 -!- spec[afk] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:53:53 spec[afk] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 20:54:54 -!- KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:56:25 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 20:58:26 guusano_: indeed. what Fare said! 21:03:06 i have been idle for quite some time 21:03:09 now i come asking for help 21:03:35 trying to load mel-base 0.80 into CMUCL 19e on FreeBSD, I get a bunch of messages about it trying to redefine CLOSE and other standard functions 21:03:41 if i allow it, of course everything blows up 21:03:45 anyone seen anything similar? 21:03:51 i have it working on CMUCL 19d on Linux okay 21:04:07 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-179.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:05:54 vsync, problem with defpackage and shadowing? 21:07:07 that's what i'm guessing, just wondering if something changed between 19d and 19e 21:07:25 -!- wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-4db4259a.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["leaving"] 21:07:29 try 19f 21:08:25 oh is that out? i just used what freebsd gave me 21:08:26 try SBCL 21:08:31 lemme try cvsup, then i'll download manually 21:08:42 running some software that doesn't quite yet work on sbcl 21:08:44 vsync: a few of days ago 21:08:58 i need to get it working there too, for other reasons, but the port is still in progress 21:09:17 -!- crod [n=cmell@y192011.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:09:42 crod [n=cmell@x250017.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:13:17 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:15:11 looks like 19f requires freebsd 7.1 or 8.0... i'll try anyway 21:15:18 also 19d since that works on my other machine 21:16:09 Beket [n=stathis@ppp11-104.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:17:12 (i have freebsd 6.2) 21:20:12 -!- H4ns [n=hans@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:20:24 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 21:21:39 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:47 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:25:31 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.72] has joined #lisp 21:27:31 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 21:28:36 why does: (format t "~?" (values-list '("~A" "foo"))) not work? 21:29:11 oh acutually it should be "~@?" 21:29:48 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 21:30:09 Poundily [n=jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:17 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:38 not that that works either 21:31:00 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless297.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:31:55 okay, this works perfectly on cmucl 19d on linux, but breaks on cmucl 19d on freebsd 21:32:22 -!- ejs [n=eugen@190-120-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:33:53 slash_: what for values-list? 21:34:05 ? 21:34:20 why did you wrap '(...) in values-list? 21:34:38 oh wait i did it wrong again 21:34:40 (format t "~?" "~a" '("foo")) will work 21:35:00 no acutally it's correct 21:35:13 well that's just an example 21:35:25 for a more complicated case i try to figure out 21:35:37 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:35:47 ok, what's your more complicated case? 21:36:01 some function, which returns '("~A" "foo") ? 21:36:02 *slyrus_* wonders if freebsd > 6.2 wil fix my sb-ext:run-program problems... 21:36:48 no i need either a ~A or a ~* 21:37:03 depending on the context 21:37:12 so i need to dynamically create the arg-list 21:37:56 (format t "~:[~a~;~*~]" t 10) and (format t "~:[~a~;~*~]" nil 10) ? 21:38:26 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:38:33 hold on i'll paste it 21:39:54 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77202 21:40:26 ahhhhhhhhhh 21:40:40 FreeBSD 19d on Linux automatically loads the gray-streams library 21:40:42 er 21:40:45 CMUCL 19d on Linux automatically loads the gray-streams library 21:40:50 CMUCL 19d on FreeBSD does not 21:40:54 mel-base depends on gray-streams 21:41:09 slash_: (string= (symbol-name (slot-value o 'reg)) "NONE") == (string= (slot-value o 'reg) "NONE") 21:41:23 it tries to DEFMETHOD on CLOSE.. if that's not a generic function, it shadows it instead and everything dies 21:41:28 stassats`: wtf?! 21:41:41 slash_: that's just side note 21:41:46 yeah 21:41:59 but how can :NONE == "NONE" ? 21:42:08 clhs string= 21:42:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_stgeq_.htm 21:42:21 slash_: symbols are string designators 21:42:55 ok 21:43:18 nevertheless that doesn't solve my issue :D 21:44:01 in a case form, the match of the test-key against the keys is performed "on the basis of its identity" 21:44:27 does that mean eq, eql, or equal? 21:44:27 perhaps (format nil "~vT<_~A opcode =~A ~:[~;reg=\"~a\"~]" indent (slot-value o 'name) (slot-value o 'opcode) (when (string= (slot-value o 'reg) "NONE") (slot-value o 'reg))) 21:45:16 well does he replace ~a then? 21:45:19 i suppose no 21:45:31 kami-: eql 21:45:43 slash_: well, try it, i didn't try it 21:46:07 stassats`: So, I cannot use strings (equal strings, that is) ? 21:46:16 kami-: yes, you cannot 21:46:19 only eql 21:47:26 -!- Lispster [n=jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:47:39 stassats`: any utilities which mimic case for strings? (you seem to know all of those libraries :) 21:48:59 slash_: ok, it doesn't work 21:49:09 :/ 21:49:54 (format nil "~:[~;~:*reg=~a~]" (when t 10)) but that should do 21:51:25 kami-: i'm not aware of this, there were some threads in c.l.l about various implementations of the general case 21:51:45 -!- blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@220.sub-75-202-101.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:52:09 stassats`: thank you. 21:54:43 josemanuel [n=josemanu@53.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:55:32 kami-: as an option you can do (case (find-symbol "STRING") (string 10)) 21:55:50 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:56:13 and don't forget the right package 21:57:19 stassats`: thank you. I used a simple if for the time being. 21:58:02 not COND? 21:59:48 (defun add (x y) (+ x y)) (reduce add nil :initial-value nil) gives nil, but (+ nil nil) gives error...... 22:00:19 (reduce #'print nil :initial-value nil) 22:00:46 while (reduce '+ nil) gives 0 22:00:59 (+) => 0 22:01:04 additive identity 22:01:23 i.e., reduce doesn't call your function 22:01:52 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:02:19 and finaly: (reduce '+ nil :initial-value nil) => nil 22:02:46 funny stuff. 22:02:52 i mean, it calls, but with no arguemnts 22:03:14 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:03:25 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:03:32 I'm manually chasing dependencies for installing newer cffi to go with my newer sbcl. I'm surprised how many projects are using darcs... 22:05:04 knobo: and if the sequence is empty, and initial-value is specified, it return initial-value 22:05:05 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:06:00 and if it is not specified, it calls with zero arguments 22:06:53 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:31 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:08:11 And, if called with a list of one element, return that element :) It's actualy sane everything when I think of it. 22:08:47 of one and no initial-value 22:09:01 yeah, that's tricky 22:09:14 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:58 (reduce 'f nil :initial-value 1) == (reduce 'f '(1)) 22:10:03 knobo: i find a lot of things in CL that were "WTF?"'s when i first found them were actually the only really sane way to do it. 22:11:34 (reduce 'f nil), I would like an error here. Which I usualy get. 22:12:28 knobo: then (cond ...) 22:12:28 if your functions can't deal with zero arguments 22:14:51 Fare: what's wrong with cond? 22:15:48 (defun f (val1 val2)..) if you want the invalid arguments error. 22:16:15 otherwise (if list (reduce 'f list) (error "I want an error here")) 22:17:00 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:17:30 -!- dcjackson [n=dcj@dcjmacbookpro.clark-communications.com] has quit [] 22:21:09 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.114.159] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:22:53 -!- gzip4 [n=xxx@ws102.zone134.zaural.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:24:20 user____ [n=user@p57A7CFE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:07 philipp_ [n=philipp@179-35.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 22:32:06 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.72] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:39:23 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:40:34 -!- philipp [n=philipp@179-35.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:46:54 xristos [n=night@dns.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 22:49:47 a-s [n=user@92.80.114.159] has joined #lisp 22:50:54 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:44 H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 22:55:11 -!- user____ [n=user@p57A7CFE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:59:43 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:13 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 23:02:25 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:02:31 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 23:04:51 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:05:37 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:06:28 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 23:08:47 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Client Quit] 23:08:55 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:16:59 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:36 Fare: I don't know why would I want a virtual hosting 23:18:17 Perhaps it's cheaper than dedicated hosting? 23:19:12 bytemark are in the process of migrating all their virtual hosts from uml to kvm, whioch is good news for any sbcl-using customers 23:23:01 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.143.212] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:24:25 guusano_, weren't you talking about having a xen domU for lisp services? 23:25:46 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.72] has joined #lisp 23:26:18 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:27:42 -!- asn [n=fafa@gentoo/developer/asn] has quit ["leaving"] 23:28:11 blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:20 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:31:26 xen works fine too, coruskate.net is running on one 23:31:50 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:38:57 dcjackson [n=dcj@dhcp-10.danastreet.live555.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:47 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 23:40:12 Fare: yes but on my own computer 23:41:53 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.72] has quit ["Leaving..."] 23:47:06 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 23:50:28 -!- deliana [n=deliana@ABordeaux-158-1-71-87.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:51:06 nyef [n=nyef@12.183.96.245] has joined #lisp 23:51:19 Hello all. 23:52:47 At one point, I thought SLIME automatically adjusted to multiple in-package forms in a single file, but it doesn't seem to be working for me right now. 23:53:20 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:53:30 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 23:54:05 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:56:50 -!- spec[afk] is now known as mrSpec 23:57:54 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["BB!"] 23:58:09 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:58:35 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A8A1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"]