00:00:14 CCL side-affects a tail-pointer. clisp pushes onto a list and nreverses at the end. 00:00:45 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:00:55 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 00:01:47 billstclair: many CLs do it like ccl, AFAIR (is it using xerox loop, as well?) 00:01:59 Not sure where it came from 00:02:25 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 00:02:27 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-159-16.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 00:02:31 at any rate, the xerox loop in sbcl does the tail pointer frobbing as well 00:02:52 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B00E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:03:32 cool 00:04:12 MIT Loop, revised by Glenn Burke, then more drastically revised by Palladian 00:04:14 hi dear common lispers 00:04:47 spacebat: hey spacebat, did you have any luck with the elephant library? 00:04:48 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:05:13 does backquote splicing behave the same way? `(,@(one-thousand-elements) ,@(five-thousand-elements)) - still ok? 00:05:53 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:06:02 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 00:07:31 I don't think backquote is allowed to shared list structure, so the form above has to cons 6,000 cells 00:07:40 Or make a 6,000 element cdr-coded list 00:08:23 Though I suppose it COULD share the five-thousand-elements. Not sure what the spec says about that 00:08:33 why isn't it allowed to share list structure? doc ref (to CLHS? or the ANSI standard? what would be appropriate here?) would be great 00:08:34 <_3b> ,. would share it iirc 00:09:01 clhs ,@ 00:09:02 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for ,@. 00:09:07 hmmm, specbot! 00:09:14 CCL DOES share the last list 00:09:15 clhs ` 00:09:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 00:09:50 So it conses only 1000 cells 00:10:39 -!- kerc [n=riise@65.84-49-151.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:10:41 so iiuc, `(,.(one-thousand) ,.(over-nine-thousand)) would traverse 1000 cells, but cons none. 00:10:47 And it does nconc with ,. 00:11:01 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:11:11 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 00:11:11 <_death> I don't think you need the second ,. even 00:11:29 right. affects only the form following the ,. one 00:11:29 But the spec says that it's "allowed" to operate destructively, not that it must 00:11:53 <_3b> for extra fun, you can use ., for the 2nd one 00:12:06 heh 00:12:21 <_3b> which has the same effect for different reasons 00:12:40 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.152.91] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:13:28 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:39 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:16:08 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:16:18 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 00:17:43 -!- X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has left #lisp 00:18:17 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:19:53 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 00:21:16 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:21:26 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 00:23:07 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:23:41 -!- CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:23:48 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:26:24 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:26:34 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 00:27:19 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:57 -!- antgreen1 [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:28:06 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087DA2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:31:32 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:31:41 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 00:32:03 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:32:47 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:33:08 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-3-68.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:33:42 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 00:33:47 <_3b> in (defun foo () `((:foo) (:bar ,baz))) does sbcl or slime decide where to highlight the error? 00:34:20 <_3b> with the ` form on one line, the whole `(...) gets highlighted, with it on 2 lines, it just highlights (:foo) 00:36:39 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:36:49 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 00:38:58 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-22-114.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:40:54 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-119.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:13 KalifG [n=user@166.128.162.151] has joined #lisp 00:41:47 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:41:47 -!- somethingsimple [n=codemo@s5592662f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:41:57 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 00:44:24 _3b: ccl highlights defun 00:44:51 <_3b> ok, so probably sbcl's faoult then 00:45:14 or swank-sbcl's 00:45:15 <_3b> hmm, or maybe swank, i guess it has the right form in the warning 00:46:38 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:46:54 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:47:04 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 00:47:32 <_3b> conveniently *slime-events* shows the relevant looking part as (:location ... ... nil) :/ 00:51:58 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16860F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:52:31 *stassats* is annoyed by sbcl refusing to set a variable declared as (simple-array fixnum (*)) to #(1 2 3) 00:54:05 <_3b> #(0 is a simple-vector though isn't it? 00:54:27 <_3b> #() i mean 00:54:39 -!- slom [n=slom@pD9EB6B0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:54:55 it is 00:55:37 <_3b> well, why would you want it to let you assign an unspecialized array to a var declared to be a specialized array? 00:56:40 stassats: #1a(1 2 3) 00:56:59 actually, hm 00:57:10 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:57:16 (typep #1a(1 2 3) '(simple-array fixnum (*))) => nil 00:57:19 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 00:57:28 <_3b> didn't think you could make literal specialized arrays except strings and bit vectors? 00:57:39 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:58:29 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:59:05 (make-array 3 :element-type 'fixnum :initial-contents '(1 2 3))) 00:59:11 pmstub [n=phil@93-97-208-222.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:59:46 hello 01:00:02 i saw some videos of genera and i was impressed 01:00:11 is there a similar development environment 01:00:16 (coerce #(1 2 3) '(simple-array fixnum (*))) is shorter 01:00:44 ... why not just make a macro, if it matters that much? 01:00:55 <_3b> pmstub: slime+emacs tries to be similar, commercial lisps might have something similar as well 01:01:07 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:01:28 <_3b> pmstub: see also mcclim and/or climacs 01:01:29 mle: nah, it's not a big issue, just a little annoyance 01:01:47 i took a look at mcclim but i use windows 01:02:04 pmstub: it's hard however to replicate a whole OS environment in a different OS env. (and OpenGenera isn't cheap) 01:02:09 lispworks is very expensive aswell 01:02:18 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:02:28 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 01:03:06 unfortunately, most development outside of commercial lisps is done on POSIX systems now 01:03:56 pmstub: clozurecl ide for osx could be something to watch out for 01:04:18 don't think anything is in the works for windows 01:04:27 and you wouldn't want to buy lispworks anyway 01:04:30 its atrocious 01:04:39 the price? 01:04:44 the ide 01:04:52 even worse than slime+emacs 01:05:01 its like they are mocking genera 01:05:18 xristos: on the other hand, it supports windows rather well afaik 01:05:24 i use plt scheme mostly 01:05:37 I use fortran mostly 01:05:43 CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:05:44 lol 01:05:57 *stassats* is now annoyed by slime's "Compilation failed: 0 errors 1 warning 0 notes" 01:06:50 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:06:58 voidengineer: I'm contemplating getting a COBOL book :> 01:07:26 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:07:36 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 01:09:20 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:11:27 Dammit. I finally got used to clbuild, and now I see mudballs. T_T 01:11:49 -!- pmstub [n=phil@93-97-208-222.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 01:12:33 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:12:43 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 01:13:30 i have yet to try mudballs 01:14:35 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2D463.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:15:27 http://mudballs.com/documentation/mudballs/compile-function.html -- anyone know what doc generating system made that? 01:15:34 Seems like it might be part of mudballs, but I'm not sure. 01:17:41 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:17:51 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 01:20:21 did you check the html source? 01:21:50 does compilation of (defun bar (&optional (foo *foo)) (length foo)) should be a failure? 01:22:22 sbcl says it's a failure and slime refuses to load the whole file 01:22:46 <_3b> yeah, looks odd if *FOO isn't bound 01:22:49 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:22:59 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 01:23:01 _3b: i know 01:23:42 shouldn't it be a warning, not a failure? 01:24:04 <_3b> cl spec says warnings cause compile-file to return failure-p = t 01:24:05 compile-file on it returns "file" T T 01:25:21 oh well.. then slime should be changed 01:25:50 <_3b> didn't think slime cared about that? 01:26:04 C-c C-k refuses to load 01:26:24 in sbcl 01:27:00 istr that it did load some time ago 01:27:22 <_3b> ah, compiles but doesn't load in that case? that does seem different 01:27:39 *_3b* usually just uses C-c C-c on a form at a time 01:27:57 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:28:07 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 01:28:56 <_3b> not unreasonable though, i'd rather not have it load something that would break running code 01:29:32 warnings are enough 01:30:07 <_3b> enough for what? 01:30:38 to notice, that your code is wrong 01:31:01 <_3b> yeah, so not loading it should be OK... i don't need it to try to run the borken code as well :) 01:31:07 not loading the whole file because of one small warning during the development is annoying 01:31:49 <_3b> heh, C-c C-c appears to load it even if broken though 01:32:31 i believe, that's a recent regression 01:33:06 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:33:15 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 01:38:13 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:38:22 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 01:38:50 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:43:21 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:43:31 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 01:45:39 benny` [n=benny@i577A097C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:48:19 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:48:29 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 01:52:32 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-1-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:53:38 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:53:48 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 01:53:52 since 16 oct 2008 01:56:58 dat [n=dthomp@pool-71-111-55-176.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:14 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:58:46 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:58:56 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 02:00:45 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0452.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:02:41 oh it was jack and daxter that used lisp 02:03:54 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:04:04 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 02:06:01 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:05 -!- dat [n=dthomp@pool-71-111-55-176.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:07:59 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:08:43 Hello? 02:09:02 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:09:06 The function ltk::read-data sometimes messes up and repeats previous values. 02:09:12 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 02:09:48 -!- benny` is now known as benny 02:10:08 It seems like old values from previous function calls sometimes get left in the stream. 02:11:33 I can't figure out exactly *why* that happens. 02:12:06 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 02:14:09 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:14:19 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 02:15:05 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:15:33 Cel` [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 02:16:16 pkhuong: problem solved http://repo.or.cz/w/gsll.git?a=commitdiff;h=40e1bfcee70b79a35827c49faf54b7d47d31a694;hp=b009f3e6347a96c325bab2facecc8ae790defc05 02:16:45 I will post to sbcl-devel when Viktor confirms that his problem has gone away. 02:19:17 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:19:27 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 02:19:34 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-84-44-169-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:19:52 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 02:20:37 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:22:23 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 02:24:24 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:24:34 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 02:26:25 LiamH: looks sane 02:26:43 yes, something new for me :-) 02:28:38 When I implemented it, I remembered to protect c-pointer (some GSL routines just want the pointer to the C array) and forgot there was a struct holding that pointer that many routines use. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. 02:29:32 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:29:42 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 02:30:51 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-178-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:31:20 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:33:07 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:34:39 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:34:49 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 02:36:24 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-38-156.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:39 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:38:57 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-156-192.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:39:44 a-s [n=user@92.80.87.22] has joined #lisp 02:39:46 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:39:53 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:56 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 02:44:54 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:45:03 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 02:48:32 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:48:43 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 02:49:48 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:50:38 are any of you aware of a slime feature (not that I'd call it that) which if I type in (load #p"/path/to/foo") it inserts a space between the #p and " ? 02:50:55 voidengineer: that might be paredit, actually. 02:51:03 bah, I thought it might be 02:51:10 but I don't have any space key changes 02:51:32 no, but the code to insert paired "" inserts a space; same with parentheses. 02:53:06 k, I have paredit bindings for " so I'll ditch those 02:53:07 thanks 02:53:45 voidengineer: C-q" for the rare times you don't want a space before the quote. 02:55:12 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:55:18 thanks, that works 02:55:23 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 02:58:35 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:58:45 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 03:05:27 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:05:37 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 03:07:31 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:08:44 crod [n=cmell@x250038.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 03:09:35 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:35 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:10:44 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 03:15:42 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:15:52 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 03:16:20 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@x250016.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:17:25 -!- _death [n=death@bzq-84-110-253-107.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:19:14 what kind of rigs do people run ECL on? 03:20:05 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:20:50 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:21:00 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 03:23:54 simard [n=simard@modemcable234.226-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:24:20 which should I choose as a first contact with lisp, CLISP or SBCL ? 03:24:46 if you can use emacs+slime, go with sbcl 03:24:58 if you just want to play around at the repl in a terminal, CLISP. If you want to set up emacs and slime to do some real work, SBCL. 03:25:38 ok then sbcl 03:25:57 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:26:06 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 03:29:58 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:30:09 -!- simard [n=simard@modemcable234.226-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:30:47 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-20-216-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:04 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:31:14 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 03:31:58 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:35:35 *sigh* I'm a moron 03:35:56 I have got to remember that emacs doesn't keep track of the kill buffer after I exit out of emacs! 03:36:12 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:36:17 dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-154-193.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:22 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 03:37:57 voidengineer: look into persistent.el :) 03:38:07 really! 03:38:38 I'm just struggling cause my brain is fraggled with all this new cruft 03:38:51 I literally took on the task of learning emacs slime and stumpwm in the same week 03:39:07 I've got a serious case of spagetti brains right now 03:39:20 i don't use persistent.el but i've seen it mentioned on #emacs 03:39:22 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:40:40 I hear that they are delicious with cheese. 03:41:05 -!- dys` is now known as dys 03:41:12 hehe, probably 03:41:19 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:41:29 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 03:46:26 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:46:36 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 03:47:19 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:41 Traveler202 [n=traveler@122.165.28.253] has joined #lisp 03:56:41 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:56:51 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 04:01:48 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:01:58 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 04:03:56 -!- tetha [n=hk@pD9EE7B86.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:04:05 tetha [n=hk@pD950FFBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:46 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:05:54 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:06:24 -!- nuntius [n=nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 04:06:56 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read 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104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:27:35 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 04:32:32 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:32:42 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 04:37:40 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:37:50 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 04:39:23 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-20-216-8.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:42:47 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:42:57 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 04:44:00 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 04:47:55 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:48:04 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 04:51:21 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:56:12 How do I set the equivalent of *print-right-margin* for my SLIME repl buffer? 04:56:41 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:09 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:58:18 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 05:03:16 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:03:27 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 05:05:15 -!- holycow [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:05:27 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:06:16 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.87.22] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:06:53 gigamonkey: i may be in the minority here, but it seems to me if someone with a sense of taste and feel for user interaction were to whack on sbcl's verbose error messages, on the one hand, and slime's presentation of compiler output on the other, folks might appreciate them both more. 05:07:00 and evening everyone 05:07:22 of course it's easy to stand on the sidelines and lob vaguely worded complaints, harder to actually fix the underlying problems... 05:08:24 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:08:34 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 05:12:28 philipp_ [n=philipp@179-35.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 05:12:47 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:32 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:13:42 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 05:14:53 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@24.114.232.1] has joined #lisp 05:17:39 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:18:39 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:18:49 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 05:20:12 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@24.114.232.1] has quit ["Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info/"] 05:20:46 bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@24.114.232.1] has joined #lisp 05:23:15 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:23:47 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:23:57 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 05:24:14 -!- philipp [n=philipp@126-151.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:25:03 -!- bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@24.114.232.1] has quit [Client Quit] 05:27:47 bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@24.114.232.1] has joined #lisp 05:28:54 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:29:04 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 05:32:05 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:32:08 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-192.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 05:34:01 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:34:11 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 05:35:03 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:39:09 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:39:19 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 05:40:08 slyrus: I have often thought of SBCL as incredibly noisy. Though likewise have never been motivated to do actually do anything about it. 05:44:16 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:44:26 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 05:49:00 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:49:10 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 05:54:30 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:54:40 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 05:54:45 gigamonkey: and much of the noise is actually constructive, but it still could be cleaned up a bit, IYAM 05:56:24 -!- bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@24.114.232.1] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:57:45 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-45-11-54.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:59:39 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:59:46 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #lisp 05:59:48 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 06:02:53 Good morning. 06:04:46 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:04:56 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 06:05:42 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:07:12 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-150-55.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 06:07:22 morning beach 06:09:53 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:10:04 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 06:10:39 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["I'm off!"] 06:10:50 slyrus: how are things? 06:11:14 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 06:11:41 not bad, but I still haven't found time to fix the 2d molecule drawing problems I've been wanting to fix for weeks now 06:11:45 and you? 06:12:07 Pretty busy teaching right now. Should get better in a few weeks. 06:14:34 bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@24.114.232.2] has joined #lisp 06:14:51 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 06:15:07 -!- bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@24.114.232.2] has quit [Client Quit] 06:21:45 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:40 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@89.244.130.249] has joined #lisp 06:24:04 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:24:05 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C46D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:54 -!- manic12 [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:33:04 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 06:33:16 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 06:33:31 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:35:39 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:37:00 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C46D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:39:18 -!- [[mark]] [n=mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:43:55 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-84-44-169-127.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 06:57:28 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:58:21 H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 06:59:15 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@89.244.130.249] has quit ["Verlassend"] 07:01:50 godfrey_ [n=godfrey@115.134.48.159] has joined #lisp 07:01:53 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 07:02:41 -!- godfrey_ [n=godfrey@115.134.48.159] has left #lisp 07:03:28 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 07:07:21 cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:38 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-119.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:08:26 ASau` [n=user@host114-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 07:09:07 Beket [n=stathis@ppp11-104.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 07:11:07 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 07:11:50 neerolyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 07:16:11 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:17:12 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 07:20:07 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 07:22:57 -!- H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:24:14 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 07:24:25 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 07:26:53 -!- philipp_ [n=philipp@179-35.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:30:48 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:33:22 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:34:11 DrScheme is supposed to support a variety of languages, does that extend to non-scheme lisps? 07:34:31 lol forget I said anything 07:40:36 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:42:04 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:43:27 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:58 adityo_ [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 07:46:40 if one needs a beginner's introduction to macros, and also wants intermediate or advanced understanding of macros, is there a good place on the web to learn the subject? 07:47:51 PCL to start with, then OnLisp 07:48:27 minion: PCL 07:48:28 PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 07:48:28 both available online for free and in dead tree for monies 07:48:34 minion: OnLisp 07:48:35 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``OnLisp''. 07:48:58 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:49:08 thank you spacebat - PCL looks to be just the right thing. where can i find OnLisp though? 07:49:08 there's another book that came out a while ago about macros, LOL (Let Over Lambda) 07:49:14 its not free 07:49:24 written by paul graham 07:49:33 spacebat: it's worth its price, you'd recommend it? 07:49:45 (i have a kindle! :) ) 07:49:49 I haven't bought OnLisp, and haven't read it online yet 07:49:57 http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html 07:50:01 but I did buy PCL in hardcover and its nice 07:50:23 oh pcl can be purchased? i shall kindle the f out of it then 07:50:25 thanks frank_s 07:50:43 yes PCL is the best CL intro out there 07:50:54 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:51:02 I started reading it online but wanted it in my hands 07:51:25 spacebat: it seems to be very general; though i want to do AI work, i realize i need to go back to basics and understand lisp in a more general sense 07:51:40 yeah, i was destroying my eyes reading AI manuals off the computer screen 07:51:44 KingNato [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:44 that's why i bought the kindle2 07:51:50 then you also need to read Peter Norvig's book on AI 07:51:51 best investment i've made in years 07:51:53 and lisp and stuff 07:51:54 paip right? 07:51:59 yes 07:52:05 i have read that a bunch now, thank you 07:52:12 hehe ... 07:52:21 for a while i thought paip was just the free source code on the internet 07:52:35 and i thought "why am i unable to understand this? the comments do not explain enough!" 07:52:47 finally someone here told me it was a book. i'm an idiot. 07:53:11 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:22 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-150-55.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 07:57:12 good morning 07:57:15 mogunus [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 07:58:27 mega1 [n=mega@3e44ae8f.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:58:39 'morning mvilleneuve 07:58:59 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:02:10 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp11-104.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:02:37 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 08:09:43 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 08:12:36 dys` [n=andreas@p5B3162F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:15:22 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:15:28 -!- adityo_ [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:18:17 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B3159C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:25:47 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:26:06 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 08:26:17 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 08:28:28 [[mark]] [n=mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has joined #lisp 08:33:15 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 08:38:42 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 08:43:21 VityokOr` [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 08:55:54 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:56:20 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 08:56:37 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:57:01 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:59:55 -!- VityokOr` [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:02:19 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 09:06:32 -!- Traveler202 [n=traveler@122.165.28.253] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 09:06:34 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 09:06:43 isismelting: you could have asked minion. 09:06:51 minion: tell isismelting about PAIP 09:06:52 isismelting: please see PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 09:08:07 minion: i love you 09:08:08 well, i don't think i love you though 09:09:48 jestocost [n=cmell@x250006.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 09:10:33 KingNato_ [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 09:11:41 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:11:49 leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:11:52 -!- crod [n=cmell@x250038.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:12:07 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has left #lisp 09:14:03 minion: botsnack? 09:14:03 botsnack: thanks 09:14:08 lol 09:14:30 do you think minion is stupid or something? 09:14:58 compared to what? 09:21:45 <_3b> is binding a variable twice in a LET explicitly disallowed somewhere, or is it just not undefined? 09:22:35 <_3b> s/not// 09:22:49 maybe its just naughty 09:23:08 if it's allowed, how can you use it? 09:24:01 <_3b> dunno, just wondering if i should make an effort to throw an error instead of generating silly code :) 09:24:33 sounds like you want gensym 09:24:34 <_3b> it is sort of useful in let*, but can't think of any use in let 09:24:35 i'd go with an error, or a warning at least 09:25:15 <_3b> spacebat: no, i want to know what (let ((x 1) x) x) should compile to if anything 09:26:01 <_3b> yeah, i'll probably add an error at some point, and at least the typo caught an unrelated bug :) 09:26:07 clisp, ccl: (let ((a 10) (a 2)) (list a)) => 2, acl (let ((a 10) (a 2)) (list a)) => 10 09:26:12 go figure 09:26:29 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:26:35 <_3b> sbcl objects to it :) 09:26:37 sbcl -> ERROR The variable X occurs more than once in the lambda list. 09:26:40 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 09:26:54 LW 10 too 09:27:03 end ECL 09:27:17 undefined, ill advised, and not recommended 09:27:18 <_3b> it 'assigns them in parallel', but doesn't say how many bindings are created, or which is which, or what 09:27:48 -!- KingNato [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:27:57 <_3b> yeah, definitely not good code, but compilers need to deal with ugly code if the spec says so 09:28:02 well, if i compile that in clisp, it return 10 too... 09:28:13 <_3b> (but if it doesn't say, i can ignore it for now) 09:28:32 Fufie [n=poff@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:29:14 by 'parallel' I think it just means the forms can't refer to each other 09:30:26 <_3b> right, but if you assign 1 binding twice, 'parallel' implies undefined 09:30:44 <_3b> but if you get 2 bindings, it depends on which is visible to the enclosed scope 09:31:14 <_3b> if you get 2 bindings and it specifies that a specific one is visible, then there is a 'correct' answer... otherwise not 09:31:15 (list (let ((a 10) (a 2)) a) (funcall (compile nil (lambda () (let ((a 10) (a 2)) a))))), clisp => (2 10), acl, ecl, lw 10 2. 09:31:17 yup... undefined, its up to the implementation 09:31:53 <_3b> spacebat: not explicitly undefined though, right? 09:32:29 perhaps only implicitly 09:33:47 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:34:17 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:36:30 lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has joined #lisp 09:37:29 adityo_ [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 09:37:50 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has joined #lisp 09:41:06 suddenly bordeaux-threads:make-thread become undefined, only %make-thread exist!!! 09:42:06 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:42:51 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.169.7] has joined #lisp 09:43:36 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:45:30 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-87.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:46:22 Dan Barlow here? 09:46:29 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46:50 if yes, he must be hiding under dan_b name 09:47:04 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:10 A devious ploy indeed! 09:48:24 dan_b: your change broke hunchentoot from start 09:49:00 -!- mogunus [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:49:22 sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B7E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:49:26 <_3b> hmm, 8k or so lines of debug prints from compiling a 40 or so function... i should probably tone that down a bit :p 09:50:53 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:51:52 the change is just a "%" before the make-thread functions in sbcl.lisp file. 09:52:39 that's how it should be, no? 09:53:35 perhaps, you have screwed/old/something BT 09:54:18 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 09:54:50 stassats: i got it through clbuild; 09:55:10 should be ok 09:55:31 stassats: package exports only make-thread; but the function is %make-thread 09:55:43 -!- KingNato_ [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [] 09:55:56 some-one have changed it, i don't know why! 09:56:03 lboard: why? the function is make-thread 09:56:24 make-thread calls %make-thread 09:57:04 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 09:58:24 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:02:49 _3b: what implementation are you working on? 10:03:25 <_3b> mathrick: trying to compile some approximation of CL to avm2 bytecode (flash 9+) 10:03:33 oh, nifty 10:03:57 *_3b* should have just made up a new language with simpler semantics :p 10:04:02 -!- jao [n=jao@148.Red-83-39-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:04:11 lboard: if you ever find yourself using a symbol called %something, and you didn't explicitly choose to use internal symbols of a package, warning lights should be going off 10:04:15 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:04:30 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 10:04:30 %something is a very common convention to mark internal symbols that aren't supposed to be used by clients 10:05:30 mathrick: sbcl 10:05:39 sbcl what? 10:06:41 stassats: it works after using asdf:load-source-op ; 10:06:44 <_3b> yay, i think all of the tests that test things i've implemented so far seem to work with new compiler :) 10:06:55 lboard: perhaps you have stale fasls 10:07:43 <_3b> now i need to finish closures, and handle more types of non-local exits 10:07:52 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 10:08:10 stassats: i should delete fasls from /var/chache .. or any-other way? 10:08:21 <_3b> and at some point actually intern symbols, do something about setf functions, etc... 10:08:49 lboard: delete them from where they are 10:10:28 bob_f [n=bob@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 10:11:19 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:12:00 _3b: how's avm2 as a platform to build CL on? 10:12:54 <_3b> probably not very good for a full CL, since it will probably be hard to add multiple-value returns with any sort of efficiency 10:13:24 <_3b> might not be too bad for an approximation of CL aside from that though 10:13:51 stassats: works cool, thank u! 10:14:20 <_3b> it has some annoying bits like only getting 1 activation record for closures per function call, which is sort of annoying to work around, but better than no closures at all i suppose :) 10:15:06 stassats: so i learned % is a prefix for intern symbols; where i can learn (find) these kinds of conventions in cl community??? 10:15:11 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-188-238.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:15:20 3b: Hmm, can't you use a global vector for values? 10:16:05 <_3b> Zhivago: not sure i see what you mean 10:16:09 lboard: you pick them up as you go, there's no written CL Community Manual or anything 10:16:59 ok 10:17:10 minion: tell lboard about naming conventions 10:17:11 lboard: please look at naming conventions: Some symbol naming conventions, distilled from CLHS, the Lisp FAQ, and comp.lang.lisp. http://www.cliki.net/naming%20conventions 10:17:16 <_3b> Zhivago: currently i just pull out inner scopes to a separate function when i need multiple activation records per call, which should work for now (probably not something that needs to happen too often anyway) 10:18:08 <_3b> at some point i need to test and see if i can just allocate arbitrary objects and use those instead of the built-in activation record things in the vm 10:18:19 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 10:19:46 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:56 KingNato [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 10:20:06 -!- KingNato [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:20:48 who has a clue about cliki source code? 10:21:01 KingNato [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 10:21:02 it seems to destructively transform HTML entities into their values 10:21:25 minion: cliki? 10:21:26 cliki: CLiki is a free collaborative hypertext (Web) authoring program, written in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cliki 10:21:29 so if you write <foo>, the next time someone edits it, it'll be instead and disappear from the output 10:21:41 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:22:29 -!- matimago [n=user@free.informatimago.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:22:39 "Editing a page tends to convert HTML entities (ampersand g t semicolon) into real characters (right-angle-bracket). " 10:22:44 aha, known and not acted upon 10:22:57 there is a rewrite of cliki 10:23:05 by drewc, not yet finished 10:25:45 ah 10:27:32 deliana [n=deliana@ABordeaux-158-1-71-87.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:27:41 did anything ever come of Kiiw? 10:27:47 er, Kiwi 10:27:53 the ALU cliki rewrite 10:28:54 3b: One traditional way to implement multiple value returns was to use a global vector to store the additional values in and a variable to indicate how many were used. 10:29:46 3b: I suspect that you can efficiently implement them in actionscript using this technique. 10:30:03 -!- topo [n=topo@87.223.39.79] has quit [] 10:30:13 Zhivago: are there any issues with that and multithreading? 10:30:22 or do you just use thread local storage? 10:30:50 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:32:54 <_3b> Zhivago: ah, right... was planning to try some variants of that, just might be more expensive than one would expect to access a global 10:33:34 <_3b> depending on whether there is some way to access a global without doing the possibly dynamic property lookup stuff to get to it 10:33:54 -!- adityo_ [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:36:46 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:59 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #lisp 10:37:12 <_3b> another option would be returning an object containing the values, depending on whether i can overload conversion operators so it converts to a single value automatically or not 10:39:07 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:51 <_3b> or possibly explicitly converting the values object to a single value for functions that might return multiple values, if that turns out to be cheaper than accessing globals 10:41:11 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:41:28 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:42:20 -!- saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [] 10:43:54 mega1: i can reproduce the situation where C-cC-c doesn't work in the repl. the (thread-interruptions thread) queue is getting longer with every C-cC-c but they don't get processed. the INTERRUPTIONS-LOCK is not held by anyone... 10:44:10 any ideas where to look for the possible cause? 10:44:57 H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 10:44:58 unfortunately the reproduction is loading dwim-presentation, so not a one-liner 10:46:04 attila_lendvai: in all likelihood, the target thread is in without-interrupts 10:46:06 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:46:40 -!- [[mark]] [n=mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:47:29 I've seen a bug in fd-streams where it can block in a read() within a without-interrupts ... 10:48:59 attila pasted "repl not interruptable log for mega" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77109 10:50:03 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A615.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:50:07 mega1: please note that this is a one year old custom slime... maybe it's missing some patches to swank? 10:51:35 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 10:52:38 mega1: although the without-interrupts is also in the backtrace in a clean image where C-cC-c works 10:52:56 -!- toon [i=tverwaes@igwe11.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:52:59 the one near the bottom is normal 10:53:27 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:53:40 sb-unix::*interrupts-enabled* ? 10:54:38 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:55:00 it's T in both cases (eval'd in the repl) 10:56:05 xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:56:22 is there more than one case? 10:56:43 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:50 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 10:59:10 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:59:13 attila_lendvai: what does this do: 10:59:13 (let ((os-thread (sb-thread::thread-os-thread sb-thread:*current-thread*))) (values os-thread (sb-thread::kill-safely os-thread sb-unix:sigpipe))) 10:59:42 -!- PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:59:43 when eval'ed from the repl with the non-empty interruptions queue? 11:00:15 mega1: returns 139898560870736 0 11:00:38 minion: foo 11:00:39 foo: Canonical metasyntactic variable. http://www.cliki.net/foo 11:00:49 attila_lendvai: and what happens to the interruption queue? 11:01:54 mega1: nothing. adding (length (sb-thread::thread-interruptions sb-thread:*current-thread*)) it returns: 139898560870736 0 4 11:02:14 -!- rey_ [i=pdewacht@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:02:17 one more C-cC-c makes 4 increase 11:02:35 attila_lendvai: call this from the repl: (sb-alien:define-alien-routine "check_deferrables_unblocked_or_lose" void) 11:02:40 it will die, though 11:02:58 I mean this: (check-deferrables-unblocked-or-lose) 11:03:01 mega1: ehhh, sorry i've got it 11:03:32 ? 11:03:35 mega1: grepped for sigpipe and we disable it (why?!) 11:04:00 i seem to remember some headaches long-long ago 11:04:07 ah, you won't be alone with that. 11:04:31 I forgot that users are used to messing with the sigpipe handler. 11:04:35 bah, if only there was a comment there... 11:05:08 how is ,@ in ,@body pronounced? 11:05:30 coma at 11:05:41 oh - ok, thanks matimago 11:06:14 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:06:32 isismelting: or also: splice 11:06:47 ` = backquote , = unquote ,@ = splice 11:07:21 attila_lendvai: 0.9.11.27 * ignore SIGPIPE: it's better to handle the errno of write (2) 11:07:31 that's what people used to do anyway 11:07:41 mega1: the commit comment is this "Make sure broken network streams don't end up in the debugger". any ideas what will happen now if i remove it? 11:07:49 nothing 11:08:19 ok, good to hear. i'll run this locally for a while before pushing to the server, though... :) 11:08:19 0.9.11.27 is from Mon Apr 10 16:08:45 2006 11:08:57 ' is a quote and ` is a backquote and those are two very different things - right? 11:08:58 my patch is from 2006 05 05 11:09:10 :-) 11:09:31 mega1: seems like i was not following sbcl head that closely at those times... :) 11:12:27 *attila_lendvai* was confused. 05 is april, and is before 10... 11:12:48 it's may 11:13:22 *attila_lendvai* was not confused previously but talked himself into confusion... :) 11:13:33 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.135.107] has joined #lisp 11:16:53 isismelting: indeed they're quite different. 11:18:21 isismelting: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_dc.htm vs, http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 11:21:53 [edit] 11:21:53 Python language 11:21:53 This implementation sacrifices speed for simplicity: the program is short, but takes more than the linear time that would be desired in a practical implementation. 11:22:09 sorry, mistake paste 11:29:12 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:42 poor python! 11:31:01 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 11:32:40 :) 11:33:02 was reading about burrows-wheeler transform 11:34:11 CodeMagus [n=yvon@dualxdrive.com] has joined #lisp 11:35:37 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 11:37:05 -!- H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:39:13 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:40 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:42:57 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483CE57.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:13 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:50:14 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:56:09 xan__ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:58:25 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 11:58:43 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 11:58:56 beach: available-p 11:59:21 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has joined #lisp 12:02:29 -!- xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:02:36 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 12:04:11 LostMonarch [n=roby@host66-178-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:05:21 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:05:33 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 12:09:01 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:09:50 *adityo* yawns 12:11:56 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:14:36 H4ns [n=hans@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:16:08 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:16:16 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:57 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:17:00 ASau`` [n=user@77.246.230.151] has joined #lisp 12:19:44 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:22:08 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:48 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 12:31:28 -!- lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 12:31:57 folwo [n=folwo@122.165.28.253] has joined #lisp 12:34:20 -!- ASau` [n=user@host114-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:35:05 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:39:18 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93-40-115-226.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:41:00 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has quit [] 12:41:54 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:42:51 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 12:44:51 ImInYourMonad2 [n=hask@h190n1c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 12:46:35 -!- folwo [n=folwo@122.165.28.253] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 12:46:40 -!- ImInYourMonad2 [n=hask@h190n1c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 12:48:39 attila_lendvai: poke, I ran into some issues with constructing queries in perec 12:50:03 mathrick: paste it somewhere, privately is also ok 12:51:08 attila_lendvai: doing that now, I just need to make sure my cat doesn't kill herself in the meantime 12:51:43 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:51:59 mathrick: well, forget cat and get used to less... :) 12:52:03 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:52:23 nah 12:55:34 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:57:49 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:05 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 13:02:02 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:02:50 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 13:03:06 wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-145-79.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:26 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 13:05:22 mathrick pasted "cl-perec constructed queries" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77111 13:05:44 attila_lendvai: ^ 13:07:18 when a compiler-macro is created, will it be called again, if another argument can be inferred? (for instance: when it appears that a certain keyword is bound to a constant) 13:08:50 attila_lendvai: the things is, I want to construct parts of the query differently depending on what argument I get 13:08:55 mathrick: parent-calendar is an accessor of calendar? 13:08:58 yes 13:09:16 (parent-calendar event) => # 13:09:59 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:10:21 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host66-178-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 13:11:12 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:11:15 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:27 _death [n=death@bzq-84-110-244-162.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:00 mathrick: aren't you missing an extra paren by any chance? and the (or ...) gets ,@ spliced into the query? 13:12:15 attila_lendvai: oh, possibly, lemme check 13:12:38 i can't see whats going on from the paste, but the error suggests this 13:13:28 attila_lendvai: hmm, I don't do any ,@ with COMPILE-CALENDAR-OP-QUERY results, as far as I can see 13:13:39 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.162.151] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:14:18 where would you place the extra parens? 13:17:33 photon_ [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 13:19:40 mathrick: in the select you probably want to put the , before the entire compile-calendar-op-query call... ? 13:20:39 about the 'or issue, i was looking at ,@query-form, but as i can see it's nil, so that's probably not the problem 13:21:30 attila_lendvai: no, because then I run into issues with arguments not being available at the macro expansion time 13:21:36 mathrick: see cl-perec:make-query and cl-perec:execute-query 13:21:37 that's what I tried at first 13:21:52 attila_lendvai: yeah, that's the thing, I'm not exactly sure how they work 13:22:11 (OR ...) comes from compile-calendar-op-query 13:22:13 mathrick: look at the select macro, it's a thin wrapper for them 13:22:33 attila_lendvai: yeah, but it uses a lot of tree-walking magic 13:23:30 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:35 mathrick: tree walking? it just collects the lexical variables from the &environment and give to m-q and e-q 13:24:01 hmm 13:24:40 mathrick: try (macroexpand-1 '(select (instance) (from (instance foo)))) 13:25:41 yernakulam [n=chatzill@124.123.145.83] has joined #lisp 13:25:54 well, if :compile-at-macroexpand is not T, but that leads to serious woodoo, where sql pieces are compiled at macroexpand time, with all the consequences it brings... 13:26:38 edmon1 [n=vuong@222.253.101.116] has joined #lisp 13:27:41 attila_lendvai: I think I found a way to reproduce that problem I have in a minimal context 13:29:13 mathrick annotated #77111 "reproducing the problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77111#1 13:29:32 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:29:40 attila_lendvai: see that 13:30:26 mathrick: that is arguably a bug, but it's not the same 13:30:45 well, but is similar 13:31:11 it treats some sexps as literal values instead of pieces of code 13:31:35 -!- TDT [n=TDT@191.16.63.69.dyn.southslope.net] has quit ["leaving"] 13:31:37 -!- yernakulam [n=chatzill@124.123.145.83] has left #lisp 13:31:49 TDT [n=TDT@191.16.63.69.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:00 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:32:07 attila_lendvai: in my original macro, it sees the result of COMPILE-CALENDAR-OP-QUERY and tries to interpret it as literals instead of injecting it into the query to be analysed 13:33:24 mathrick: there's no macroexpand phase yet at query compilation, and c-c-o-q is a mere function call to the query compiler. if it didn't choke on it, it would compile a lisp query anyway... 13:33:50 hrmm 13:34:10 attila_lendvai: okay, what way do you see for me to do what I want then? 13:35:31 mathrick: as i said make-query and execute-query. you can give make-query any sexp that you want... 13:35:49 well, that it can compile 13:36:20 but your example should be ok, once the c-c-o-q call is moved before the query compilation 13:36:37 aha 13:36:45 cool, thanks 13:36:45 i'll add the example as a failing test though 13:36:59 I'll play around with it and see what comes out 13:37:32 blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@166.sub-70-221-37.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:33 manic12 [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:36 ryanw [n=ryan@74-141-107-34.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:51 Hello, is there a huge difference between lisp and xlisp? 13:41:16 yes 13:41:33 xlisp is a lisp, too, probably 13:41:36 so hard to find a lot of documentation on it 13:42:19 it's not an implementation of Common Lisp, though (right?) 13:45:36 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 13:46:28 I have a little problem with the documentation string 13:46:36 (defun foo () 13:46:39 "this is 13:46:45 foo doc") 13:47:06 is there a way to organise/format this so that the description string doesn't include the indenting spaces? 13:47:08 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:47:31 couldn't find it online or in CL 2nd edition 13:47:45 yvdriess: it'd be nice, wouldn't it 13:47:56 <_death> don't insert them? 13:48:18 1. either breaks 80char limit 13:48:30 2. either breaks indentation 13:48:35 :( 13:48:59 thing is that cltl2 gives an example like that 13:49:14 but automagically removes the spaces used in indentation when printing the string 13:49:40 yvdriess: you could patch the documentation function, I guess 13:49:48 :( 13:50:05 works for my stuff, but not something I can tell a student 13:50:33 but ok, there isn't a built-in way to do it, that's what I wanted to know :) 13:51:08 yvdriess: there's no consensus over which way is better 13:51:36 (defun foo () 13:51:40 "something like 13:51:43 this" 13:51:45 ...) 13:51:47 I guess 13:51:55 not indenting the string 13:52:06 a one-liner is just ... no 13:52:07 pozic [n=pozic@unaffiliated/pozic] has joined #lisp 13:52:36 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C46D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:58 dat [n=dthomp@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:20 frank_s_ [n=frank@41.145.42.12] has joined #lisp 13:53:36 Is it possible to disable the garbage collector for some part of a program in whatever CL implementation? Or, if you want a concrete question: is it possible to write a x86 assembly interpreter which only has an additive constant of overhead? 13:53:48 -!- photon_ is now known as photon 13:55:03 pozic: most implementations have something like a WITHOUT-GCING macro that can be used to temporarily disable the garbage collector. 13:55:29 -!- Maddas [n=Maddas@tardis-b23.ee.ethz.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:55:51 HET2 [n=diman@e195-177.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 13:55:57 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1FB58.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:08 -!- frank_s [n=frank@41.145.42.12] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:56:22 segv [n=mb@p4FC1C74A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:16 H4ns: and this can be used in user-code? That sounds great. 14:01:46 why do you think you need to disable the gc? 14:03:44 Because in some part of a program I think about writing I have to control all memory accesses. 14:07:10 <_death> how do you plan on achieving that? 14:09:28 _death: in the same way that all other people who have written a language implementation did. 14:11:44 <_death> they either didn't or they did for _some_ memory accesses, e.g. those performed by the code interpreted/compiled 14:13:05 -!- wasabi___ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-11365: SIGTERM received; exit"] 14:14:48 A[B[D[D[A//redraw 14:15:01 ... 14:15:23 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:15:49 -!- ryanw [n=ryan@74-141-107-34.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit ["My damn controlling terminal disappeared!"] 14:19:41 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:21:36 doylent [n=doylent@150.217.252.182] has joined #lisp 14:22:31 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:22:34 g'day 14:24:35 sch good day 14:24:55 argh 14:26:18 such a good day 14:26:44 yeah, with network hiccups 14:29:00 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 14:29:10 yoshinori [n=read_eva@210.253.202.182] has joined #lisp 14:30:14 -!- doylent [n=doylent@150.217.252.182] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 14:30:14 It is a lovely day indeed! 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How was friday night? 15:33:06 manuel__ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 15:34:18 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C46D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:27 mvilleneuve: Great, but there were only 5 people. Iban stayed until 5 in the morning :) 15:34:46 mvilleneuve: First Lisp dinner with more women than men. 15:35:51 plage: wow, that's a date to remember :) 15:36:05 Yeah! :) 15:36:34 (and a new argument for Lisp evangelists) 15:37:08 We might not be able to keep that up. 15:37:15 :) 15:37:22 might attract the wrong crowd 15:37:29 Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:34 rsynnott: true 15:39:43 as long as the women are right... 15:42:00 -!- manic12 [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:43:49 wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-158-214.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:24 -!- vinc456 [n=user@unaffiliated/vinc456] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:45:25 vinc456 [n=user@unaffiliated/vinc456] has joined #lisp 15:46:29 -!- vinc456 [n=user@unaffiliated/vinc456] has left #lisp 15:49:59 PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:55:12 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 15:56:49 prxq [n=mommer@Yaf4c.y.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 15:56:56 hi 15:57:10 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:35 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:59:26 *Fare* comes back from LA to see he was logged in all this time! 16:00:36 hi Fare 16:01:33 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:15 I'm getting these strange messages lately: "couldn't check whether # is readable: Bad file descriptor". This is the latest sbcl from source. 16:03:11 trying to get out of the debugger does not work, as the error gets fired again immediately. Any ideas? Is this a known problem? A bit of research sugests that a similar bug was fixed in 0.9.something. 16:04:13 slime straight from cvs as of a few minutes ago. 16:04:40 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:05:05 fe[nl]ix, hi! 16:06:40 oddly, the repl keeps working. 16:07:39 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:07:53 Pb_ [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 16:09:29 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 16:19:30 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:20:31 -!- pozic [n=pozic@unaffiliated/pozic] has quit ["leaving"] 16:21:54 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 16:22:16 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-119.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:23:34 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:25:23 -!- sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B7E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:25:34 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:29:52 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:40:55 philipp [n=philipp@179-35.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:42:18 hi, I just began to use clbuild, it's really great 16:42:29 when I do a ./clbuild lisp, it runs sbcl without problems 16:42:53 but if I run sbcl directly, I can't use packages like with ./clbuild lisp 16:43:12 did I forget something ? 16:43:23 bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@24.114.234.1] has joined #lisp 16:43:27 yes, don't run sbcl directly 16:44:05 or add clbuild directory to your asdf:*central-registry* 16:44:07 well, I kind of enjoy sbcl, it's a bash alias to rlwrap sbcl 16:44:10 ah ok 16:44:18 -!- bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@24.114.234.1] has quit [Client Quit] 16:44:26 well, actually clbuild/something 16:44:27 make alias to rlwrap /clbuild lisp 16:44:41 or better use slime 16:44:50 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:44:53 stassats: that's cheating, I like to central-registry solution 16:44:57 stassats idea is better, let clbuild handle the dirty-work 16:45:00 bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@24.114.234.1] has joined #lisp 16:45:01 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 16:45:02 slime seems cool, I just can't stop using vim 16:45:14 when you're totally use to an editor, it's really hard to change 16:45:18 *used 16:45:22 don't stop, use slime for lisp 16:45:55 galdor: ./clbuild lisp will set asdf:*central-registry* for you, why bother? 16:46:42 being dependent on clbuild to run lisp is silly 16:46:43 finally you may be right, I need to keep clbuild anyway 16:46:55 yes, but clbuild is my package manager 16:46:59 so anyway I need it 16:47:00 hefner: a shell script? :) 16:47:07 *rsynnott* finds using sbcl without slime extremely irritating 16:47:09 it's probably not going to break 16:47:44 -!- vsync [n=vsync@220-27.202-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:47:48 vsync [n=vsync@220-27.202-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:50 once it has downloaded anything, I don't see what value clbuild continues to provide 16:47:58 everything, rather 16:48:02 hefner: update the packages 16:48:12 install new things 16:48:16 I don't want my packages randomly updating 16:48:20 I'm a developper, not a user 16:48:28 hefner: set asdf:*central-registry* for you! 16:48:32 hefner: I suppose I can choose those I upload 16:49:10 hefner: maintain your local copy of packages. What it lacks is greating "frozen" repositories for projects 16:49:29 stassats: it works; is there a way to tell clbuild to use the --noinform option for sbcl ? 16:49:39 without hacking the clbuild script 16:49:44 perhaps 16:49:50 so I could "freeze" a set of packages into a directory which would be a prepared environment for my project :) 16:49:54 i don't use clbuild myself... 16:49:58 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483CE57.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:50:53 p_l: other nice thing would be to actually specify a file that contained preferable versions and it would install those 16:50:56 p_l: use tar 16:51:19 hefner: I want to manage those "environments". I know I can use tar :) 16:51:21 versions and a directory to use for that install 16:51:50 *p_l* was wondering about writing something similar to clbuild to automate such stuff 16:52:18 but at the moment I don't have so many projects to make it a necessity :D 16:52:20 -!- bombshelter13p [n=bombshel@24.114.234.1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:52:21 bombshelter13p_ [n=bombshel@24.114.234.1] has joined #lisp 16:53:04 -!- bombshelter13p_ [n=bombshel@24.114.234.1] has quit [Client Quit] 16:54:06 too bad for --noinform, but it's very nice anyway 16:54:10 thank you for your help :) 16:55:53 josemanuel [n=josemanu@126.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:56:18 p_l: okay, use git =p 16:57:27 add --noinform to SBCL=... in clbuild.conf? 16:57:53 (I know it's dirty that we split that into spaces, but it's the unix way!) 16:58:10 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:58:48 lichtblau: ah thought it was just the path of the binary 16:59:16 it works, thank you! 16:59:24 hefner: I like clbuild because it -doesn't- randomly update things unless I ask it to. And even when it updates something, it does that in a safe manner. 16:59:36 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:00:55 a long time ago, "clbuild update" would update everything, but that's now called "clbuild install --all-projects", which is much harder to type by accident 17:01:28 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:01:32 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:01:46 Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 17:03:17 mgr: any news on your handler-bind problem? 17:03:23 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:03:44 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:41 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:25 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 17:06:39 -!- ineiros [n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:06:42 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:08:04 bad_alloc [n=marvin@HSI-KBW-078-042-114-027.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:09 hello 17:08:24 Yes hello. 17:08:36 hello bad_alloc 17:09:54 Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-18-30.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:20 I've run into the following problem with ABLE: i define a simple function, like (defun hi () (print "hi")) and then type (hi) into the repl. then i get an error saying that the function isn't defined. what's gone wrong? 17:11:02 i've tried to comile it first (which it did) but without success 17:11:13 *schme* google ABLE 17:11:46 ineiros [n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 17:12:17 bad_alloc: Maybe you need to hit some key to evaluate the code. 17:12:49 it had to be that simple... 17:13:10 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 17:13:25 sorry, I'm used to compile-> run 17:13:40 sorry for taking your time, thanks 17:14:51 attila_lendvai: I have a strange problem trying to select a country from the db 17:14:55 kami- pasted "dwim country problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77118 17:15:54 ejs [n=eugen@116-108-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:36 attila_lendvai: never mind. 'hu is not in the correct package. with 'dmm::hu, it works 17:17:07 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:18:06 kami-: that's still a bug 17:18:17 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:18:28 i'd make it a string 17:18:53 attila_lendvai: I'd also stick with strings as stassats proposes. 17:19:38 i've also argued for that internally, but that code is not used, so... 17:20:54 you mean (def entity country () ((code :type (standard-text 2) ...? 17:21:13 i didn't see the point of having persistent instances for countries to start with... 17:21:40 attila_lendvai: ok. that'd also be a valid point. 17:22:01 and since then cl-l10n has that information derived from a maintained source (CLDR) 17:22:10 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:23:10 heh. CLDR feels a bit close to TLDR (-: 17:23:38 antifuchs: what is TLDR? 17:23:40 bad_alloc: No problem :) 17:23:50 kami-: it's an abbreviation for "too long; didn't read" 17:23:54 sorry to bother you again but i just cannot find the key for evaluation in ABLE. Is there a default in lisp interpreters/compilers? 17:23:56 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-137-154.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:23:59 antifuchs: heh 17:24:07 Is there any differences between &rest and &body? 17:24:18 you know you're having conversations in the wrong social circles if you know that (-: 17:24:20 the Able page doesn't say anything about a key 17:24:38 bad_alloc: I think it is control-e 17:25:11 tomoyuki28jp: &body doesn't work in in lambdas 17:25:15 that copies the function into repl, but then i can't call other functions 17:25:15 bad_alloc: I am readnig from the ABLE page where it lists default keybindings. It has (setf *key-copy-to-repl* "") 17:25:21 bad_alloc: oh ok. 17:25:37 bad_alloc: Can you not just run that code at the repl? 17:25:43 stassats: thanks! 17:25:46 all of it? 17:25:57 bad_alloc: I think you're the only one in this channel who has ever used ABLE, so well.. :) 17:25:58 tomoyuki28jp: while in macros, it's the same 17:26:12 "but it can be used to inform certain output-formatting and editing functions that the remainder of the form is treated as a body, and should be indented accordingly." 17:26:19 bad_alloc: C-k maybe.. *key-compile-file* 17:26:42 bad_alloc: Also there is a load file. I'm not sure what these things mean in ABLE (: 17:26:49 i'll have a look thanks 17:27:18 stassats: I see. 17:27:42 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@89.244.130.249] has joined #lisp 17:28:26 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:30:00 -!- bad_alloc [n=marvin@HSI-KBW-078-042-114-027.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit ["You shoot yourself in somebody else's foot."] 17:31:30 stassats: it's treated slightly differently by slime/emacs for indentation purposes, isn't it? 17:31:52 that i don't know 17:32:26 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:33:41 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-18-30.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:33:49 mikezor [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:34:03 Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-18-30.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:32 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.169.7] has quit ["“Some [people] feel that the best way to improve Perl would be to go back in time and shoot the author before he wrote it.â] 17:37:45 eek, php now has lambdas and closures 17:37:51 end of world nigh 17:37:55 oops, wrong place 17:37:57 good lord 17:38:07 lol 17:38:13 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-216-234.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:06 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-67-67-216-234.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:39:35 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:40:35 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:41:09 why is there no signal emulation code for sbcl on ppc/darwin? 17:41:23 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:41:29 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:43:46 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 17:44:05 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-121-125-224.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:44:35 -!- mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:51:06 -!- HET2 [n=diman@e195-177.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:52:25 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-18-30.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:52:31 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-67e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:52:34 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-137-154.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has left #lisp 17:53:00 simard [n=simard@70.83.226.234] has joined #lisp 17:53:13 -!- simard [n=simard@70.83.226.234] has left #lisp 17:55:06 danlei [n=user@pD9E2D180.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:34 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@91.194.72.7] has joined #lisp 17:57:18 -!- Pb_ [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:57:41 Malbolgne [n=baal@h49n2fls303o885.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:58:42 -!- edmon1 [n=vuong@222.253.101.116] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:59:13 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:04:01 i wonder if the addition of lambdas and closures will improve php or just make it appear in more and more increasingly annoying places. 18:04:30 i guess those things aren't mutually exclusive. 18:07:03 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:09 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:09:46 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:01 rey_ [i=pdewacht@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 18:11:56 -!- dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:12:46 -!- xan__ is now known as xan 18:12:59 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 18:13:07 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-242-245.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 18:15:25 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:17:06 netytan [n=netytan@150.237.123.64] has joined #lisp 18:17:29 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:17:38 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:18:27 Hi guys. Could someone confirm  a multimethod in CL is a single entity to which method definitions are added (a generic function in Dylan)? 18:18:46 hoh. 18:19:06 I haven't used dylan but I guess maybe generic functions in dylan are like generic functions in CL. 18:19:34 to which you add methods ;) 18:20:14 :) That would make sense since they're quite closely related. I just wanted to confirm as it's been a long time since I used CL 18:20:44 netytan: But ya, that's correct. and from my 3 second browse of dylan documentation it seems to be just the same :) 18:20:55 "Multiple dispatch or multimethods is the feature of some object-oriented programming languages in which a function or method can be dynamically dispatched based on the run time (dynamic) type of _more than one_ of its arguments." .. C++ and Java uses single dispatch, or only one of its arguments for dispatch .. 18:20:58 CLOS without the ()'s .. my god. 18:21:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_dispatch .. the examples there are nice .. got to bend over backwards to do something similar in java .. x) 18:22:09 ineiros: thanks, but I'm well aware of what multiple dispatch is; multimethods are but one implementation and shouldn't be regarded as absolute synonyms 18:22:20 Is tehre an intro text to Dylan's version of MM? 18:22:38 ineiros: (I understand that it was a quote) 18:23:03 manuel__ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 18:23:03 netytan: As I read yer question. Yes, you've got it just right. methods go in the generic function. (: 18:23:14 which is an object in itself 18:23:17 booyaa [n=booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-249.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:24 KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:23:57 schme: a global object correct? I'm curious about the interaction of packages in CL with the accessibility of multimethods 18:24:14 global object? 18:24:21 Now you've lost me, sorry :) 18:25:22 sorry, that was poorly articulated 18:25:56 What I mean to say is, can the package system be [easily] used to hide multimethods 18:26:09 Can a multimethod be defined locally. 18:26:15 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-158-214.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:26:25 Is anybody using UCW here? Can you point me to your web-site? 18:26:28 it's a symbol in the package, like any other function. 18:26:31 In my experience this isn't the case but again, better to be accurate than not. 18:27:12 what's the underlying reason you need to know? 18:27:19 netytan: I'm not quite following you here. Sorry. You want to hide stuff in a package.. from other packages? 18:27:21 -!- kefka` is now known as kefka 18:27:26 schme, tic: thanks  that makes multimethod definitions accessible as long as the generic function is. 18:27:38 attila_lendvai: can I name a slot in a derived entity the same as a slot of one of the super-entities, but make it a computed slot (instead of a regular slot in the super) ? 18:27:46 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:27:54 netytan, you define a generic function, which is just the function signature. See e.g. http://gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-generic-functions.html 18:28:09 (ok, not "just a", but you can view it as such.) 18:28:13 tic: I'm engaged in a discussion with a friend and I don't like to lie. 18:28:13 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:28:29 netytan: I'd think so, yes. 18:28:39 netytan: I can't say for sure though. (: 18:28:51 netytan, that's always a good thing. (defmethod some-package:my-generic-function (...) ...), I think. 18:29:03 You're all been more than accommodating 18:29:04 Well anyway. good night you crazy channel. 18:29:15 night. 18:29:23 where *package* isn't :MY-GENERIC-FUNCTION and some-package is where the generic function is defined. but I'm not sure. 18:29:28 schme, night. (at 19:30?!) 18:29:36 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:29:48 schme, rapport now at svt2 btw 18:30:12 that'd be svt1. 18:30:35 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 18:30:37 tic: Yes. some of us get up at 4 am in the mornin' you know :) 18:30:42 what is on rapport now? 18:30:45 tic: Also some of us have no TV ;) 18:31:30 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 18:31:31 Foofie, http://www.kostdoktorn.se/vad-rapport-glomde 18:32:09 is somethin like seaside existing for lisp ? 18:32:27 UCW maybe? I think it does continuations. 18:32:29 tic: mm.. nothing like proper butter when cooking 18:32:32 kami-: nope. if that worked that would mean that the given slot is both a persistent and a computed slot... you can add :persisntent nil to the super though, then it can work 18:33:38 attila_lendvai: thank you. will name it differently. 18:34:46 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:35:33 mikezor [n=mikael@c-67e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:35:58 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-67e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 18:36:01 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:36:37 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:38:11 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93-40-115-226.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 18:38:21 manic12 [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:16 LostMonarch [n=roby@host66-178-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:43:39 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:44:28 how do you compare UCW to Weblocks? 18:44:48 Very carefully? :) 18:45:02 "only with a grain of salt"? 18:45:14 (i really have no idea) :) 18:45:21 I prefer weblocks, because it's more about "just do what I want", but I made that decision before I had worked seriously with either of them, so I haven't done much UCW. 18:45:42 That is, a lot of obvious things it weblocks are a couple of lines, which I like. 18:47:29 interesting... 18:48:17 It is my understanding that UCW is better written in the internals, but the internals of both are rather beyond me, so... :) 18:48:21 *rlpowell* goes AFK. 18:49:53 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@91.194.72.7] has left #lisp 18:50:30 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@91.194.72.7] has joined #lisp 18:50:37 I want to get into lisp web programming and I'm sure if I should use these frameworks or just write a couple of scripts to be run via CGI 18:51:15 topo [n=topo@87.223.39.79] has joined #lisp 18:51:56 konr: cgi is quite certainly not a good option 18:52:02 -!- mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-67e370d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:53:44 guaqua: why? Isn't the bulk of the work just writing functions that return HTML pages? 18:53:57 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-242-245.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 18:53:59 konr: you could just use hunchentoot and cl-who without a fancy framework 18:54:01 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 18:54:25 yes, but booting up a common lisp from scratch is not smart for every page load 18:54:39 konr: that way, you can gain some experience with lisp before subscribing to one of the frameworks or writing your own. 18:54:51 even if you saved an image with just the right libraries loaded it's quite slow 18:56:13 konr: the usual deployment process for cl web servers (and nowadays, on many other languages, as well) is to have a long-running lisp process that speaks HTTP, and proxy connections to it from something like pound/haproxy/nginx/apache 18:56:42 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host37.190-227-43.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:56:53 that results far less connection setup cost, and has a few other very nice effects w.r.t. the debugability of your web app 18:57:03 hunchentoot by itself is quite nice in its simplicity 18:57:39 (the process keeps running before and after an error, so you can install debugging hooks into it) 19:00:51 hmmm... sounds awesome! I'm going to try it out. Thanks! 19:01:10 :) 19:02:24 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 19:03:19 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@91.194.72.7] has left #lisp 19:03:36 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:08:24 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 19:14:14 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-205-173-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 19:14:24 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host153.190-227-34.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:15:11 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-6cd59d7846a7e835] has joined #lisp 19:15:25 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 19:16:50 When I use slime-indentation, I cannot indent (lambda () ...) correctly. Emacs display an error message like "lambda has a badly-formed indentation method: (cl-indent:indent-function-lambda-hack . #0)". Is there a way to avid the error? 19:17:47 *stassats* doesn't use slime-indentation 19:19:06 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 19:19:17 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-205-184-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:19:36 stassats: oh really? I just want to indent loop macro in a better way. 19:20:24 i use (setq lisp-simple-loop-indentation 1 lisp-loop-keyword-indentation 6 lisp-loop-forms-indentation 6) 19:20:36 stassats: thanks! let me try that one. 19:21:19 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:22:08 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has joined #lisp 19:22:13 hi, I'm not sure why I'm getting "Error: The function (SETF FUNCALL) is undefined." on this: (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (setf (funcall (car x) target) (elt row (cadr x)))) '((entry-id 0) (entry-symbol 1) (entry-timestamp 2) (entry-open 3) (entry-close 6) (entry-volume 7))) 19:22:38 set is defined only on apply, iirc 19:22:42 setf 19:23:24 egn: try and see how SETF works. You can't (setf funcall), at least not portably. 19:23:33 stassats: the setting works just fine. thanks a lot for your help all the time. appreciate it. 19:29:27 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:29:37 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:34:37 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:36:18 wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-145-79.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:47 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-83-162.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:53 Is there a way to defmethod (define a method) for all the rest class types except defined ones? ex) already defined methods for string and character, and define a method for rest types like integer, list, etc... 19:40:20 tomoyuki28jp: (defmathod bla (var t))? (I'm not sure... sorry) 19:41:12 The-Kenny: oh, I think you gave me a right answer. Let me try that one. thanks! 19:41:17 tomoyuki28jp: "all rest class types" is ill-specified as there can be added arbitarily many any time later 19:42:10 tomoyuki28jp: Look at "Multiple Inheritance" here: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-classes.html It says that every class is derived from t and STANDARD_OBJECT 19:42:21 s/_/-/ 19:42:32 The-Kenny: I will, thanks! :) 19:44:41 tomoyuki28jp: Works for me :) I think I was right :D 19:44:50 ,!p 19:44:58 oops :) 19:45:28 The-Kenny: That works for me too. thanks :) 19:45:52 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:48:27 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:39 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:39 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:54:06 -!- pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:54:20 pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:36 lichtblau: that sounds good, but my thought was that since it's checked out from version control, I can use the version control client to update it instead of asking clbuild 19:59:25 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@89.244.130.249] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:01:38 well, in my case it also tracks dependencies and which proxy I need to use for which client :) 20:01:48 which makes me think it'd be basically equivalent to bootstrap from a tarball snapshotting all the projects, rather than checking them all out and failing when servers go up and down 20:01:58 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit ["leaving"] 20:04:56 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-192.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:05:05 jao [n=jao@148.Red-83-39-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:00 jfactor [n=john@c-71-230-33-184.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:27 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has quit [] 20:17:00 druggz [n=mail@156.12.68.126] has joined #lisp 20:17:01 hi 20:17:10 is lisp good for hacking like C and Perl is? 20:17:43 druggz: no, it is superious 20:17:45 superiour 20:18:05 H4ns: I believe there was no second u in superior ;-) 20:18:29 ok so dont use lisp for hack'n shit. 20:18:31 p_l: thank you1! :) 20:18:44 for hack'n shit, no. 20:18:56 sounds like an academic language. 20:19:01 druggz: It's very powerful language and you can use it for whatever you want 20:19:05 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 20:19:18 minion: tell druggz about pcl 20:19:19 druggz: direct your attention towards pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 20:19:21 i havent seen many lisp hacks/exploits 20:19:27 druggz: read some of that, then return. 20:19:30 "hacks" haha. 20:19:34 hsx 20:19:35 hax 20:19:48 druggz: cause those should be written in assembly, IMHO. Or generated by a higher level code, written for example in Lisp ;-) 20:19:57 that kind. you are talking about malware. no, lisp is not notorious for being a good malware platform. 20:20:08 druggz: you would be interested in Wasp Lisp, I guess.... 20:20:50 thanx fellaz. 20:20:59 *druggz* gets the fuck outa here 20:21:02 -!- druggz [n=mail@156.12.68.126] has left #lisp 20:21:03 xD 20:21:13 that made me smile :D 20:21:16 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [] 20:21:35 well, there was some guy who used scheme for adware 20:22:16 stassats: ha! after all, scheme _is_ good for something! :) 20:24:56 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-87.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:26:52 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 20:27:07 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 20:28:37 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CE57.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:21 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:21 Pb_ [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 20:31:42 -!- Pb_ [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has left #lisp 20:35:26 thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:55 is there a print formatter for lisp that works better than vgrind? 20:36:15 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:36:57 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-83-162.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:37:18 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-83-162.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:22 The Common Lisp standard contains a pretty printer 20:38:19 I thought about improving SBCL's one for Lisp code but I haven't come around 20:38:45 would it be called the cute printer? 20:38:58 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:39:17 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 20:40:05 Nah I just thought about two or three obvious improvements. The pretty-printer is still a mostly mysterious beast for me 20:40:28 as are most pretty things 20:42:51 I meant formatting for an actual paper printer... bolding keywords, etc... not the basic indenting pretty printer 20:42:52 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:43:43 there's a scheme and lisp 2 latex thingie 20:44:10 any idea what it's called? that might work 20:44:47 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:46:23 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-159-16.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:46:41 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:47:36 SLaTeX? 20:47:54 Yes I think so 20:49:00 attila_lendvai: still here? 20:49:15 thanks... 20:51:05 kami-: a bit 20:51:25 *attila_lendvai* had some wine and is preparing for a movie 20:53:21 :) 20:53:42 thom_: emacs has htmlize 20:53:52 kami- pasted "strange cl-perec error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77130 20:54:13 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:54:19 attila_lendvai: I don't see the problem with geo-location 20:54:49 it's probably some dumb mistake (as always). 20:55:43 kami-: well, the problem is that it's basically a one-sided association, which is perfectly understandable on the modeling level, but has the same performance consequences as a normal association. in short: it's not tested much, we mostly use associations in such situations 20:56:22 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@x250003.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:56:35 attila_lendvai: thank you. will change it and see what happens. have a nice movie (and the rest of the wine :) 20:56:48 *kami-* likes Hungarian wines 20:57:15 kami-: it's from the makers, in a 2 liter bottle... i guess i'll leave a bit for tomorrow... :D 20:57:49 sounds like a good thing to do :) 20:58:49 anyways, good luck, i'm off for the movie, bye 20:58:58 attila_lendvai: bye. 20:59:06 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 21:02:15 Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-69-148-16-111.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:17 oh.. new tk bindings 21:02:20 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit ["leaving"] 21:03:31 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-83-162.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:04:16 wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d8154de.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 21:04:23 hiho once again 21:05:32 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-105-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:08 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 21:07:42 wakeup pasted "coerce string" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77134 21:07:51 any ideas? :> 21:08:18 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:08:35 jestocost [n=cmell@x250023.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:08:44 <_death> backquote and comma 21:09:12 ? 21:09:34 (cat "chan.lisp?action=post&id=" (write-to-string id)) is not evaluated 21:10:02 hmm 21:10:21 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:10:25 ah yeah 21:10:26 I get it 21:10:27 -!- blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@133.sub-70-221-92.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:10:35 because of the data ' 21:11:30 so I swap ' with ` and , the stuff to evaluate gets a , ? 21:12:48 compare '((a . (concatenate 'string "ab" "cc"))) and `((a . ,(concatenate 'string "ab" "cc"))) 21:13:31 urk, ugly "?action=post" stuff ;-) 21:13:34 yeah thats what I meant thanks 21:13:49 dont like GET? 21:14:15 I think its nice if you see what the script is doing in the url line 21:14:38 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 21:14:39 and since I dont have any static pages, why have pretty URLs 21:14:55 wakeup: sorry, it reminds me of PHP (which I hate), and pretty URIs are important in itself :) 21:15:16 -!- H4ns [n=hans@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:15:34 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:57 yeah php is puke 21:16:51 wakeup: also, http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI 21:17:17 so if I am at it already: how would you deploy your lisp cgi stuff? I am curently thinking about sbcl + load image 21:18:15 wakeup: I'm using SBCL w/ relocation patches + Hunchentoot + mod_proxy configured through .htaccess 21:22:21 *slyrus_* uses some custom hunchentoot handlers that call perl CGI scripts (to run gitweb) 21:22:41 -!- atsmyles [n=asmyles8@gate.timeinc.com] has left #lisp 21:24:14 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:24:53 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:22 you know, this news about Intel threatening to revoke AMD's x86 license has me thinking 21:26:32 I think that it would be brilliant! 21:26:37 thanks for the pointer attila_lendvai 21:26:51 voidengineer: AMD would then revoke amd64 license 21:26:54 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:27:01 p_l: that's what I was about to say 21:27:06 not only that, but I think it would be the end of x86 21:27:14 pretty much 21:27:19 isn't PowerPC open? 21:27:20 which is why Intel isn't going to do it 21:27:23 also, I'm pretty sure x86 is outside copyright protection 21:27:39 the basic ISA isn't patented AFAIk 21:27:52 that's how other companies have made binary-compatible chips 21:27:55 Adamant: only some new extentions are patented 21:28:00 p_l: right 21:28:12 like altivec and the virtualization stuff? 21:28:14 and the agreement between AMD and intel is two-way 21:28:23 Has anyboby tried mod_lisp+hunchentoot? I'm getting a cryptic "End of file found: error reading from Lisp" error from apache, and google is of no help :( 21:29:55 the agreement afaik gave each other access to other side's patents after a grace period (I think of two years or something like that) 21:34:50 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-150-55.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 21:39:01 Hmmm...ruby wants something like "ordered hashes". Am I the only one thinking this is a bit of a contradiction of terms? 21:41:10 H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 21:44:07 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:45:03 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:45:17 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:50:13 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 21:52:00 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 21:52:39 TDT: not necessarily. Hashing afaik simply shows how it's implemented (by hashing the value of the key), ordered hashes is simply a hashtable with hash function designed so you can exploit some relations between keys 21:52:53 -!- Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:53:12 at least as far as I had seen it 21:54:38 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:56:09 p_l: Yeah...I don't know, from what I always learned, hash tables aren't implied to be ordered. It's funny because perl is going the total opposite way on all this, making it more random. 21:56:27 Guest76185 [n=me@cpe-98-14-187-196.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:49 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-182-20-9.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:43 -!- Guest76185 [n=me@cpe-98-14-187-196.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:02:41 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:26 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:03:59 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:04:03 -!- KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:04:56 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 22:06:06 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:19 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 22:06:50 -!- wlr_ [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:11:38 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:12:49 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:44 -!- ejs [n=eugen@116-108-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:17:26 H4ns1 [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 22:17:30 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:18:07 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-119.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:33 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host66-178-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 22:20:38 -!- deliana [n=deliana@ABordeaux-158-1-71-87.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:21:11 how can I check out the keywords of a function (foo)? 22:21:30 konr: use slime 22:22:27 -!- H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:22:29 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 22:22:47 dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 22:23:37 -!- wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d8154de.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["leaving"] 22:25:45 H4ns1 [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 22:26:51 -!- H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:26:54 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 22:36:51 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 22:38:52 a-s [n=user@92.80.87.22] has joined #lisp 22:39:09 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:39:49 xyblor_ [n=nik@206-248-159-20.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:50 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:39:54 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless297.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:40:39 -!- dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:41:46 Beket [n=stathis@ppp11-104.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:42:18 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:43:03 -!- Malbolgne [n=baal@h49n2fls303o885.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:47:21 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44ae8f.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:50:07 -!- xyblor [n=nik@76-10-138-8.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:50:16 -!- booyaa [n=booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-249.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:53:23 -!- xyblor_ is now known as xyblor 22:55:09 Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 22:55:14 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:56:32 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-182-20-9.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:58:19 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:00:34 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:02:44 -!- rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-9ba162ed55552869] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:03:20 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:05:53 re 23:07:31 manuel_: yo 23:09:59 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:12:44 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:09 How can I end my connection to a lisp environment while keeping it running, and how can I resume it later? 23:14:25 -!- hankhero [n=henrik@c213-89-194-181.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:14:47 load swank, do (swank:create-server :port 6666 :dont-close t), do M-x slime-connect 23:14:50 start the lisp, use (swank:create-server :dont-close t), slime-connect, slime-disconnect 23:14:52 then ,disconnect 23:16:57 WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:05 -!- egv [n=user@79.120.80.19] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:19:04 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:23 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:21:01 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:42 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:24:20 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:30:10 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@126.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 23:30:50 comexk [n=comex@teklinks.org] has joined #lisp 23:33:59 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:03 -!- comex [n=comex@teklinks.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:35:17 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:35:57 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 23:37:42 -!- CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:38:11 -!- xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:39:21 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:08 phf [n=phf@c-98-231-211-226.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:08 -!- Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:42:34 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:34 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 23:45:06 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 23:45:27 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 23:45:39 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:45:59 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:50 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:48:12 -!- manic12 [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:50:16 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 23:53:42 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:54:35 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:55:14 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:39 ausente [n=lhugbj@189-19-126-131.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:56:41 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 23:56:46 joelmccracken_ [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-231-39.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:12 -!- joelmccracken_ [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-231-39.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 23:57:59 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:13 tinaa seems to be the default document autogeneration system for CL stuff; are there others worth looking at? 23:58:20 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection]