00:00:29 Quetzalcoatl_ [n=godless@cpe-71-72-235-91.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:14 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-121-125-224.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:09:16 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:09:30 wmaikon_ [n=wmaikon@187.5.144.32] has joined #lisp 00:09:56 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.44.105] has joined #lisp 00:12:47 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A967.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:14:16 wmaikon__ [n=wmaikon@200-138-254-241.jvece702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:16:27 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:16:30 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-135-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 00:18:44 -!- borism__ [n=boris@195-50-199-115-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:19:32 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:20:22 -!- Guest66367 is now known as danlei 00:21:48 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-121-125-224.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:16 -!- wmaikon_ [n=wmaikon@187.5.144.32] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:27:36 _8david [n=user@pD9542CB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:30:47 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-32-95.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:33:14 -!- wmaikon [n=wmaikon@201-3-207-103.jvece702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:33:44 would it be useful to be able to bind *print-base* to 64? 00:34:09 -!- dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:35:53 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:36:13 not for base64 probably, as the base64 vector goes A..Za..z0..9+/ 00:37:02 -!- saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:25 and CLHS says For radices above 10, letters of the alphabet are used to represent digits above 9. 00:37:39 -!- wmaikon__ [n=wmaikon@200-138-254-241.jvece702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:38:23 still, I have wanted it a few times but can not remember exactly why 00:39:02 (good-night self) 00:39:22 good night 00:41:57 It is unlikely to be useful to bind to anything over 36. 00:45:10 -!- lichtblau [n=user@pD9542BCE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 00:47:23 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:47:34 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 00:49:50 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 00:58:11 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 01:02:50 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:05:17 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@29.76.70-86.rev.gaoland.net] has 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[n=godless@cpe-71-72-235-91.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:56:51 -!- dreish_ [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 04:57:39 -!- TaoChing [n=user@124.124.233.5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:00:20 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:04:19 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:04:36 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 05:04:59 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Client Quit] 05:08:08 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:08:17 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:08:35 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:09:04 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:09:32 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Client Quit] 05:10:16 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:11:44 Good morning. 05:12:03 morning 05:14:18 WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:46 Hello, is there a way to modify the reader so I can manipulate all strings? 05:15:10 WarWeasle: what string can you currently not manipulate? 05:16:09 beach I want to get a call, much like a reader macro for 05:16:09 every string so I can add perl=style variables to it. 05:16:57 I don't want to type the #?"string string string" just "string string ..." 05:17:36 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:17:47 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:20:57 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Client Quit] 05:21:09 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:21:21 Perhaps it's just the demented dream of a madman. Still I got #s/regex/replacemnt/gi and #m/regex/si to work 05:21:29 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Client Quit] 05:21:39 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 05:22:23 WarWeasle: I don't know because you are not making sense. First you talk about strings, then about Perl-style variables. Either way, it is probably not a good idea to to to get Lisp to accept the syntax of a different language. 05:22:31 <_3b> WarWeasle: did you get your cl-opengl problems resolved? 05:22:49 minion: tell WarWeasle about cl-interpol 05:22:50 WarWeasle: please look at cl-interpol: CL-INTERPOL modifies the reader so that you can have interpolation of strings similar to Perl or Unix Shell scripts. http://www.cliki.net/cl-interpol 05:23:48 Thanks, minion + house1. But don't you have to put a #? before the string? 05:23:57 in cl-interpol? 05:24:53 _3b, sorry but not yet. I was discouraged by a rough week at work (I didn't get any real code written) so I am doing something easier for the moment. 05:32:39 FYI: this is for me to learn how lisp works. I did make some perl regular expressions and got this to work with cl-ppcre: (#s/bad/good/ig "this is a bad string!") = "this is a good string!" 05:33:18 <_3b> for learning purposes, you should be able to just replace the reader macro on #\" 05:33:51 <_3b> anyone who has to read that code might object to that sort of thing though 05:34:35 _3b: thanks, it was too simple for me to figure it out! lol. 05:35:14 *rsynnott* is against reader macros, generally 05:35:47 SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.208.25] has joined #lisp 05:35:54 *_3b* sees problems with them as defined in the spec, not quite decided on the concept in general though 05:36:34 <_3b> to some expent i think that sort of thing should be the editor's responsibility 05:36:42 rsynnott: Normally I would agree with you. But once I found out I could change lisp, I had to ask, "How much?" 05:37:07 <_3b> WarWeasle: 'not quite enough' is usually the answer when you start pushing it :) 05:37:32 _3b: lol 05:37:42 <_3b> WarWeasle: still more than most languages though 05:38:41 <_3b> and there is always teh falback of just writing a complete parser in a reader macro or whatever, so you can do #{ some other language ... } if you want 05:40:22 _3b: I've been thinking about something similar to that. In order to bootstrap lisp from another language like C or C++, is a small core lisp created to run a real lisp interpreter? 05:40:57 <_3b> there are lots of them, mostly not 'common lisp' lisps though 05:41:05 -!- asdf_ is now known as gh7d395pi69wd 05:42:00 <_3b> (oops, parsed the question wrong, so that doesn't really answer what was asked) 05:42:23 <_3b> that is one way to bootstrap a lisp, yes 05:42:44 Cool. 05:43:22 <_3b> another is just to compile the initial bit by hand, or using an existing lisp 05:43:46 edmond [n=vuong@222.253.74.53] has joined #lisp 05:44:09 That makes sense. Still, I don't think I need to write another lisp. 05:44:16 bootstrap lisp from forth :) 05:44:43 At least not for a while. :) 05:45:17 <_3b> it is probably more effort than it is worth :) 05:45:43 <_3b> (at least judging how far behind schedule i am on my lisp) 05:47:01 I hear you there. Tomorrow I hope to work on my 3dmacs (whoever came up with that, thank you) some more. 05:47:47 <_3b> what sort of '3d' are you adding? 05:48:45 more importantly, can it fight the communist menace? 05:49:14 hefner: I think it must be better equipped to fight against american imperialism, FOR FREEDOM! 05:49:27 ;-) 05:50:12 As text is the least common denominator for data, a 3D environment is the LCD for displaying it. And yes, it will guarantee the American way of life for decades to come. 05:50:32 urk, then I need to shot it down 05:51:01 *p_l* cringes hearing "american way of life" 05:51:53 Yes, the "American way of life", by which I mean the rich have the way and the poor give their life. 05:52:10 <_3b> so emacs with a 3d window manager, or emacs for editing 3d data? 05:52:58 Emacs for displaying data and text in three dimentions. 05:53:35 I'm using vecto to create the text and graphics. 05:54:47 Let me rephrase that: I'm using vecto to create the *2D* text and graphics textures for the 3d objects. 05:55:21 jfactor [n=john@student166-196.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 05:55:33 now make it use shaders for rendering it directly in GPU... :D 05:56:38 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:56:57 I need to get vector arrays working first. 05:57:11 what's a vector array? 05:57:19 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 05:57:32 borism [n=boris@195-50-200-94-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 05:57:40 It's an opengl thing where I can just send lists of data directly to the GPU. 05:58:43 WarWeasle: you mean drawing lists? 05:58:52 vertex array? 05:59:45 hefner: afaik some more than that 06:00:20 I believe those are different. I think lists let you "record" and "replay" operations. Like I could repeat a list of operations. 06:00:28 yes 06:00:54 not fully, but a certain set of them, and then make operation on the whole set (like translation) 06:00:56 <_3b> he means verex arrays, not display lists 06:01:27 <_3b> you don't modify display lists once created, but since GL is a state machine, current state affects the playback of the list 06:01:35 Oh, sorry. I'm getting a little punchy. Yes, vertex arrays. 06:01:50 <_3b> (display lists are deprecated though, so possibly should be avoided for a while) 06:02:29 I need to shotgun lots of data at the GPU. Even if it doesn't work it should still be interesting though. 06:02:43 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:48 _3b: bah. OpenGL 1.1 forever. 06:03:02 <_3b> hefner: fast hardware is more fun :p 06:03:25 Did they depreciate display lists in GL3? 06:03:52 <_3b> though from what i hear, display lists are still teh fastest way to handle some forms of static data on at least some hardware (nv stuff if i remember right) 06:04:10 <_3b> WarWeasle: yes, lots of stuff is deprecated in 3 06:04:54 Well damn. 06:05:06 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-167-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:05:16 no worries, 3 is bullshit anyway 06:05:23 <_3b> don't worry about it too much, 2.1 is expected to be supported for a long while 06:06:29 <_3b> 3 is arguably an improvement over 2.1, in that more features are required to exist 06:08:47 <_3b> and the simplification of the api if you ignore the deprecated stuff can be sort of nice too 06:09:00 _3b, thanks for your help again. 06:09:31 I need to be going to bed. Night all. 06:11:25 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Yo, dawg I heard you like "Yo, dawg I heard you like "Yo, dawg I heard you like "Yo, dawg I heard you like "Yo, dawg I heard ] 06:12:36 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:52 g'day 06:17:59 hello schme 06:18:09 Oh hello beach. How are things? 06:18:22 Fine. What about you? 06:18:44 Well it's sunday. So they're excellent :) 06:19:01 I know what you mean! :) 06:19:15 Also it turns out that next weekend is climacs weekend! woooh! 06:19:43 I rotate coding projects ;) 06:19:48 schme: Whoa. I had no idea. Where is the announcement? 06:19:59 or is it just your private one? 06:21:14 leadnose [i=leadnose@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 06:22:12 what. 06:22:15 no just private stuff 06:22:16 ehehehe 06:22:52 But if something useful comes out of it perhaps I will contribute it 06:23:36 schme: For a while there I thought this was related to the plan of sykopomp 06:23:46 What plan is that? 06:24:51 a week of hacking on Climacs 06:25:03 oh! 06:25:05 no :( 06:25:08 when is that? 06:25:29 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 06:25:35 It was supposed to be in January, but then he got to busy. No date has been set. 06:26:04 argh. 06:26:44 Well that sounds like fun :) 06:26:54 Should be, yes. 06:27:16 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:50 I guess I need to repair my keyboard first. 06:27:55 it does not seem to like my laptop keymap. 06:28:21 -!- nuntius [n=nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:28:51 Or it is horribly broken. I get stuff in the minibuffer. Like M-x , apropos command: whatever. typing something and hitting enter just gives me yet another line of the same thing. 06:28:54 ech. 06:28:57 well next week. now coffee :) 06:32:28 -!- beekor [n=TurdFerg@c-98-227-159-6.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:35:18 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:37:38 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:38:57 fnordus [n=dnall@70.71.225.48] has joined #lisp 06:41:31 [[mark]] [n=mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has joined #lisp 06:42:50 best book or guide to learn cl? 06:43:12 minion: tell gh7d395pi69wd about PCL. 06:43:12 gh7d395pi69wd: please see PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 06:52:16 nurv101` [n=askmefor@cidhcp132.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 06:52:16 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@cidhcp132.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:56:32 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:57:46 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:03 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 06:58:35 can someone set ABCL to 0.13 in the topic, please? 07:00:27 woopdeedoo [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:34 -!- woopdeedoo is now known as holycow 07:15:23 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:16:40 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 07:26:30 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 07:28:17 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:47 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:36:10 diracdelta1 [n=diracdel@c-24-6-88-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:01 -!- dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-154-193.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:51:55 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 07:53:54 -!- diracdelta [n=Chris@c-24-6-88-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:56:02 -!- saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [] 07:59:41 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:00:05 sysop_fb [n=bleh@82.214.223.1] has joined #lisp 08:03:52 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:07:55 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 08:08:09 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:08:40 mogunus [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 08:12:08 dys` [n=andreas@p5B3159C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:12 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B315DC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:22:11 loz-- [n=loz@225.166.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:24:11 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-251.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:24:27 vinc456 [n=user@unaffiliated/vinc456] has joined #lisp 08:27:30 -!- loz- [n=loz@225.166.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:28:07 schme, thought you had the keymap issue sorted out? 08:28:26 tic: Yes. on the desktop. 08:28:55 tic: I am using my laptop to ssh:ing to the desktop at the moment 'cause.. well.. I'm never buying another logitech keyboard in my life. 08:29:13 especially not one of the fancy bluetooth ones. 08:29:32 philipp [n=philipp@126-151.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:29:57 But it seems to not just be a keymap issue. I can get the M-x prompt or apropos or whatnot in the minibuffer. But whatever I type there nad hit RET it just expands the minibuffer giving me another M-x 08:30:01 or apropos 08:30:02 and no result 08:31:37 Alright 08:31:57 speaking of keyboards, I really recommend the Das Keyboard. getdigital.de carry them. 08:34:31 I know you do. 08:35:20 I don't recommend CPython for DSLs, though. 08:35:24 Is it cordless? 08:35:30 wireless even 08:39:34 No. 08:39:43 (but there are probably wireless USB adapters.) 08:40:06 god no. 08:40:14 I think I will just buy a new kinesis. 08:41:22 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77062 is this a bug in cffi? 08:42:26 or you are using non-compatible sbcl version 08:42:26 yikes 08:43:34 well. my super speedy lotsa carbs drink is finished. Back to code :) 08:43:36 stassats: 1.0.25 with cffi 0.9.2 08:43:54 your cffi is a bit old 08:44:08 hm yes, debian version... 08:44:16 i'll try the new one 08:44:20 don't use debian packages for lisp 08:45:47 are they crap? ;-) 08:45:57 -!- aggieben [n=chatzill@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:46:34 philipp: no, but your problem is the result of using it 08:46:50 probably, lets see... 08:46:50 they are unmaintained, unupdated, etc. 08:47:06 minion: clbuild? 08:47:07 clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 08:47:14 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 08:50:14 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-151-176.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:54:35 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:55:29 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 08:56:40 Ogedei 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joined #lisp 11:11:40 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 11:12:36 lenst [n=user@217-210-57-98-no52.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:16:49 Intertricity [n=chatzill@c-71-196-108-143.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:21 wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-4db4256b.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 11:18:25 hiho 11:18:30 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:18:54 hi 11:19:11 -!- ehu_ is now known as ehu 11:21:38 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:56 Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:24:12 prip_ [n=_prip@host6-83-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:25:51 -!- prip [n=_prip@host157-120-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:27:12 -!- albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:34:14 -!- zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 11:34:42 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.225.33] has joined #lisp 11:37:23 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.225.33] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:38:46 hankhero [n=henrik@c213-89-194-181.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:38:47 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.225.33] has joined #lisp 11:39:40 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.225.33] has quit [Client Quit] 11:41:06 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:45 ejs [n=eugen@161-114-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 11:46:00 hohi 11:47:57 hehu 11:48:24 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-91-69.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:52:44 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:54:15 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 11:54:23 Which class name should I put for the character arguments in defmethod? 11:54:38 character 11:55:08 stassats: it invokes an error : There is no class named CHARACTOR. 11:55:21 I am using SBCL 11:55:33 fix orthography 11:55:37 tomoyuki28jp: character not charactor 11:56:14 stassats: fe[nl]ix: oh, my bad.... thanks! 12:00:15 albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 12:01:59 zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 12:02:47 Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-91-69.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 12:04:21 bbe [n=bbe@58.213.190.220] has joined #lisp 12:06:36 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 12:13:52 phytovor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-11-115.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:04 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:18:58 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 12:22:15 sry for the stupid question: but is there any document to asdf's defsystem explaining how to depend on another .asd? 12:23:07 the same document, that explains other aspects of asdf 12:23:20 i.e. asdf's documentation 12:26:44 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:27:42 if you're not specifying your own package but just trying to find dependencies for one, i recommend looking at clbuild. less hassle :) 12:28:36 I am specifying my own package 12:28:43 wakeup: http://constantly.at/lisp/asdf/ 12:29:09 fe[nl]ix: I read this, but its pretty brief imo 12:30:44 wakeup: http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html?thread=221432 12:31:02 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:31:30 antifuchs: herep? 12:31:42 fe[nl]ix: that looks nice, thank you 12:32:01 antifuchs: could you change the channel topic? s/ABCL 0.12/ABCL 0.13/ ? Thanks! 12:32:28 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:32:43 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:34:31 or better do -t 12:41:50 sulo [n=sulo@p54A3FB8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:55 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-099-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:43:50 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-130-19.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:50:13 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has joined #lisp 12:53:21 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 12:54:37 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 12:56:12 I defined a structure and some functions using it in a package, I am now in that package and when I use a function the debugger says that no structure calles post is defined. 12:56:26 maybe I need to export the structure or what? 12:56:29 wakeup, http://paste.lisp.org 12:56:36 http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp even. 12:58:05 doylent [n=doylent@87.19.123.38] has joined #lisp 12:58:50 wakeup pasted "structures" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77064 12:58:52 hemmm, how is a directory deleted? does delete-file work for directories? 12:59:19 the file gets loaded toghether with the package definitions by an asd file 13:00:04 tic: and btw, the file to load contains those post structures 13:00:28 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:41 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177075118.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:07 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-91-69.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:01:22 Hm. A bit over my head, but I believe you do need to make them externally visible 13:01:25 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:01:33 hello all, i was just wondering if theres any known issues of pulling in hunchentoot through clbuild? 13:01:42 or use org.cap9.chan::chan-db when you want to use it (notice the double colon) 13:02:20 wakeup, if you use-package a package you'll only get the exported symbols. 13:02:52 well I do (in-package) 13:03:06 sbcl says: SB-INT:SIMPLE-READER-ERROR 13:03:15 even when I export the post structure 13:03:32 can you please paste all the code? 13:03:33 simple-reader-error means that you don't have such package 13:03:42 all files? 13:04:19 wakeup annotated #77064 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77064#1 13:05:09 it'd be useful to know what exact code that caused your problem. 13:05:16 wakeup annotated #77064 "chan.asd" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77064#2 13:05:50 abeaumont: cl-fad might help there 13:05:54 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 13:06:02 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 13:06:15 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 13:06:59 wakeup annotated #77064 "chan.db" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77064#3 13:07:26 I guess you dont need the file with some html printing stuff 13:08:04 the code causing the error message, along with the error message, is the useful bit. 13:08:10 somehow sbcl's reader does not know of post at the time it reads chan.db 13:08:14 Alright. 13:08:22 ah one second 13:08:24 -!- doylent [n=doylent@87.19.123.38] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 13:08:54 -!- schmx [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:09:07 wakeup annotated #77064 "error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77064#4 13:09:10 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:11:21 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:24 I'm not an ASD wizard, but like was said above, the POST structure isn't known, which suggests you're either a) not using the package in which POST is defined, or you're not in it. 13:12:39 *package* => # 13:12:57 in chan.db? 13:13:14 ah 13:13:14 I see 13:13:58 how do I get the file to be in some package? 13:14:04 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has quit [] 13:14:19 anyone else having issues with hunchentoot and bordeaux-threads? 13:14:53 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.109] has joined #lisp 13:15:07 wakeup, add (use-package :org.cap9.chan) to the top of chan.db? *guessing* 13:15:41 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:15:44 tic: yeah but chan.db gets modified by the program 13:15:56 not by me 13:16:24 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 13:16:30 it writes the file with (print *db* out) 13:16:41 wakeup, then you probably want the code that loads chan.db to use :ORG.CAP9.CHAN. maybe? 13:16:44 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has joined #lisp 13:17:15 but the code that loads it is in :ORG.CAP9.CHAN afaik 13:17:36 so where is the code that loads it? 13:18:39 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77064 furst paste 13:18:44 s/furst/first 13:19:09 don't use with-standard-io-syntax? 13:19:10 that's the definition. is the call to db-read in that file? 13:19:33 clhs with-standard-io-syntax 13:19:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_std_.htm 13:19:39 *package* The CL-USER package 13:21:14 stassats: not using with-standard-io-syntax throws the same error 13:21:44 tic: *package* during the call to db-read is in :ORG.CAP9.CHAN 13:22:06 what about (let ((*package* (find-package '#:org.cap9.chan))) (read)) ? 13:22:24 will try 13:23:21 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177075118.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:23:31 ah wait, my fault, your first guess worked stassats 13:23:43 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483E143.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:00 I removed with-standard-io-syntax from the wrong function :* 13:24:34 anyway, adding (let ...) will ensure that it can be called from another packages 13:26:05 or, setting w-s-i-s when writing to the file, then it will print qualified symbol names 13:28:10 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-73-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 13:28:10 i'd use the latter approach: wrap or prints/reads in with-standard-io-syntax 13:28:33 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 13:28:38 s/or/all/ 13:29:04 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 13:30:07 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 13:32:58 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-200-94-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:34:03 -!- EnglishGent^afk [n=nobody@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has quit [] 13:34:06 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [No route to host] 13:35:30 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 13:39:35 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:39:40 hmmm, how can i access a mysql database, is clsql the way to go? 13:40:14 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:25 hello there 13:40:26 Yes, clsql can use mysql as backend. 13:41:25 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:59 pjb: ok, thanks 13:47:15 APerson_ [n=jimmymil@cmu-24-35-95-148.mivlmd.cablespeed.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:02 How come I can write a macro like (defmacro test () `(defmacro b (x) (+ x 1))), but if I write (defmacro test () `(defmacro b (&rest x) (+ ,@x))), I get an error that the variable x is undefined? 13:50:44 x is not known. 13:51:06 you're splicing in the value of x in the call to +, but x isn't know until you evaluate b containing +. 13:51:09 (I hope I got that right) 13:51:51 need another ` on second macro i assume 13:52:18 `(+ ,@x) ? 13:52:32 can you get asdf-install on ubuntu using apt-get? 13:52:39 or is there another easy way to get it? 13:52:47 yes, don't get it 13:52:58 isismelting, what compiler are you using on? 13:53:08 isismelting, in SBCL, it's a (require 'asdf-install) away. 13:53:33 thanks tic 13:53:48 stassats - you think i should not use asdf-install? 13:53:51 tic, yes 13:53:53 isismelting: yes 13:53:57 use clbuild 13:54:48 So, I can't write one macro that produces another that uses splicing/unquoting? 13:55:06 APerson_: you can 13:55:24 clbuild is a better way to go then? 13:55:32 Ok, how? 13:55:35 you already was told how 13:56:01 (defmacro test () `(defmacro b (&rest x) `(+ ,@x))) 13:56:20 Ah, I see, thank you. 13:56:21 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host153.190-227-34.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 13:57:24 tic: once i've required asdf-install, what is the syntax to install something 13:57:25 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1E6D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:57:29 cl-irc for example 13:57:55 isismelting, (asdf-instal:install :cl-irc) 13:58:00 segv [n=mb@p4FC1FB58.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:03 it'll fail as of now 13:58:04 with proper spelling aplied. 13:58:06 use clbuild instead 13:58:08 clbuild install cl-irc 13:58:46 the version on cliki isn't compatible with the current version of flexistreams. the maintainers should update the package 13:59:05 oh i couldn't get clbuild to work because i had to type ./ -- man i am an idiot 13:59:39 after installing cl-irc with clbuild, how do i uh run cl-irc? 13:59:44 guaqua: that's ok for lisp libraries 13:59:55 clbuild lisp 14:00:06 and (require :cl-irc) 14:00:52 thanks stassats - i've said it before & will again, you are one consistently helpful mf 14:01:55 -!- APerson_ [n=jimmymil@cmu-24-35-95-148.mivlmd.cablespeed.com] has quit [] 14:02:41 how would you move an item in a list to the beginning of the list? (I tend to overcomplicate things) 14:02:53 (cons item (delete item list)) 14:03:08 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:19 thank you 14:03:48 I would have done some combination of push and delete oO 14:04:23 might be more readable that way 14:04:41 then you write a function and forget about the implementation. :) 14:04:41 i'd use remove with cons, and delete with push 14:05:09 why? 14:05:24 delete is destructive 14:05:35 Yes, and? 14:05:49 jaymeryan [n=jaymerya@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:21 yeah, it only matters how many references you have to the head of the list 14:07:00 tic: premature optimization which can cause some headaches 14:07:24 stassats: wouldn't you recommend using remove regardless, then? 14:07:33 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 14:08:18 -!- jaymeryan [n=jaymerya@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:09:14 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host12.190-227-32.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:10:12 dlowe: i would... perhaps, i meant that if you already use delete, then push can't hurt 14:16:23 CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 14:16:44 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:16:55 blbrown_ [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:56 but you cant (push (delete .... right ? 14:17:27 sure, if you setf the result..-ueif you setf the 14:17:43 -!- blbrown_ [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:17:50 -!- sweemeng [n=sweemeng@8.60.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:18:31 yes, so cons/remove wins :) 14:18:35 milanj: (push value place) 14:19:27 Zhivago, sure, tic understood what i meant 14:21:16 WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:40 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.217.137] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:26:41 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:28:41 sweemeng [n=sweemeng@8.60.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 14:28:44 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:29:07 -!- sweemeng [n=sweemeng@8.60.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Client Quit] 14:30:08 LiamH: it might help to give us an example of how you pin the array and get the SAP, re GSLL 14:30:38 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 14:31:03 pkhuong: OK 14:31:52 _death [n=death@bzq-84-110-253-107.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:27 LiamH pasted "GSLL pinning array" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77069 14:32:52 what's MPOINTER? 14:32:58 I submitted that too early, sorry 14:33:17 let me annotate with more information 14:33:27 sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3CAD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:12 You might want to print the SAPs you extracted before the call and print the new addresses again after the call. 14:35:02 -!- sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3CAD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:35:55 mpointer gets the pointer to the GSL struct that has the pointer to the C array 14:37:08 which C array? 14:37:57 actually, C array? I thought all the allocation for arrays were done lisp-side? 14:38:03 Right 14:38:14 So "C array"? 14:38:49 My mistake, I meant to say that the GSL struct has a pointer to an array. That pointer comes from the vector-sap. 14:39:17 OK, tell me if I've got it wrong: you allocate a lisp array, then create a wrapper that points to the lisp array, and to a foreign-struct that points to the lisp array? 14:39:37 Then, when you want to use the lisp array from GSLL, you pin the lisp array and pass the foreign struct to GSLL? 14:39:47 Yes, essentially. 14:40:09 the SAP vector-sap gave you eons ago isn't good anymore. 14:40:29 eons ago? 14:40:32 a GC may very well have moved things between the creation of the lisp array and your w/o-gcing. 14:41:24 You should always pin, and only use the SAP you get from vector-sap within the dynamic extent of the w-pinned-objects. 14:41:43 so the vector-sap should be generated only within the pin? 14:42:11 yes. The point of pinning is that lisp objects can move around. 14:42:26 a SAP is just a raw arbitrary address. 14:42:33 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 14:42:36 somebody could please add arrays-in-static-space to sbcl ... 14:42:47 oops. Sorry. 14:42:53 OK, thanks, I think that's not too difficult to fix. 14:43:05 LiamH: have MPOINTER recompute the address 14:43:32 Please report the problem and the fix to the ML for posterity. 14:43:49 pkhuong: actually, there's little point in computing it until we're inside the pin anyway 14:44:23 LiamH: yup. Except that you seem to be saying that you have to pass a malloced array descriptor to GSLL? 14:45:05 pkhuong: I will report it after I generate a fix. It will take a while for me to get to it as I am working on a different branch now. 14:45:07 Is are you only passing an SAP/pointer? If the latter, it's still preferable to reuse the same dope vector ;) 14:45:15 good, I have to go. 14:45:39 I do need to malloc the array descriptor, but I can update the pointer on the fly, I think. 14:46:41 I am passing a pointer to the C struct and that struct has in it the SAP. 14:49:05 -!- sulo [n=sulo@p54A3FB8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:49:10 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:15 antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:34 LiamH: yeah, if you make MPOINTER fix the address in the descriptor before returning it, everything else should be fine. 14:52:25 pkhuong: OK, it's on my to-do list. Thanks for helping in pinning ;-) the problem down. 14:53:27 -!- _8david [n=user@pD9542CB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:53:54 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-178-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:04 fe[nl]ix: you can just malloc and put the right bits in the right places. You'll only have to handle deallocation yourself. 14:54:07 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-178-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:54:30 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-151-176.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 14:55:26 pjb: Was that a cat or did you fall asleep at the keyboard? 14:55:45 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-178-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:55:56 'morning 14:57:53 luckily, RET is far enough and i never sent to the irc all those huge texts typed while sleeping 14:58:30 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:22 That was some big object dropped on the keyboard 15:00:21 -!- WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:02:00 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-45-11-54.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:05:33 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 15:08:38 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:16 sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3CAD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:32 crod [n=cmell@y192012.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 15:16:56 pkhuong: the point is that I'd like the GC to take care of deallocation 15:17:16 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@x250053.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:18:24 pkhuong: something like http://franz.com/support/documentation/8.1/doc/implementation.htm#cl-make-array-2 15:18:47 BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:50 -!- BrianRice` [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:18:50 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:19:30 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:54 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 15:19:54 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:20:36 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:21:08 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:22:17 -!- topo [n=topo@87.223.39.79] has quit [] 15:23:13 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-96-70.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:38 topo [n=topo@87.223.39.79] has joined #lisp 15:26:56 -!- antifuchs changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Hunchentoot & Drakma 1.0.0, SBCL 1.0.26, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.13, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10 15:27:05 -!- antifuchs has set mode -t 15:27:15 -!- antifuchs has set mode -o antifuchs 15:29:24 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-207.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 15:31:38 appletizer [i=user@82-45-11-54.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:32:30 -!- Intertricity [n=chatzill@c-71-196-108-143.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:38:34 edmond [n=vuong@222.253.94.167] has joined #lisp 15:41:48 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:41:56 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:43:18 bangtree [n=user@pool-71-98-95-27.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:27 -!- phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [No route to host] 15:49:20 -!- sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3CAD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:51:48 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:53:40 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-207.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 15:56:56 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:58:49 phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 15:59:15 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 15:59:26 -!- bbe [n=bbe@58.213.190.220] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:01:21 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483E143.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:01:38 loxs [n=loxs@82.137.72.133] has joined #lisp 16:04:08 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 16:05:38 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:06:21 -!- sohum [n=sohum@burgmann181.anu.edu.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:09:02 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:22 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:25:35 sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3CAD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:35 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:25:56 rlpowell_ [n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 16:26:20 -!- loxs [n=loxs@82.137.72.133] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:27:32 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:27:35 pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:28:03 -!- pkhuong is now known as Guest93087 16:30:04 -!- albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:30:10 albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 16:30:30 -!- rlpowell [n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:30:52 matley [n=matley@93.68.120.221] has joined #lisp 16:31:38 hello 16:32:08 how to use clim on ubuntu? 16:32:49 minion: tell edmond about clbuild 16:32:50 edmond: please look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 16:34:17 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:35:30 Bacta [n=sjfhghg@unaffiliated/bacta] has joined #lisp 16:35:34 Dear LISP 16:35:43 Please adopt a name that doesn't make me laugh 16:35:49 Or belittle those who do have lisps 16:35:51 Thank you 16:35:59 please, go away 16:36:29 Oh it is trollday (: 16:36:44 Everyday is trollday :D 16:36:57 it's kindergarten day 16:37:05 And I'm the teacher 16:37:12 Taking the noobs to school since 1977 16:37:16 Bacta: you can say that you have the choice between C, C++ or CL. 16:38:29 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:43 -!- Bacta [n=sjfhghg@unaffiliated/bacta] has left #lisp 16:44:21 I want to write a simple GUI window "hello world" with clim on emacs. I don't know how to. I've installed sbcl+emacs+slime 16:44:50 install mcclim using clbuild 16:45:18 and go to mcclim website and read tutorials, manuals 16:45:40 thanks stassats 16:46:59 ejs1 [n=eugen@71-189-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:15 -!- ejs [n=eugen@161-114-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:47:22 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp440.studby.uio.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:47:47 mjf [n=mjf@r6y10.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 16:48:00 m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:48:09 funny enough, in contrast with these labyrinthine web frameworks, mcclim only has a few dependencies, which are easy to install by hand 16:50:22 jlf` [n=user@nmd.sbx05975.petalca.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:30 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:52:11 hefner: OTOH, if you count the lines of code, mcclim is larger than ucw with all its deps 16:53:43 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:40 does it different between mclim and clim? 16:57:05 does it different between mcclim and clim? 16:57:37 mcclim is an implementation of CLIM II 16:58:01 ah 17:03:41 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:07:25 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 17:07:58 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:14:29 joschan [n=ad@xdsl-78-34-41-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:14:36 -!- sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3CAD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:20:00 -!- bangtree [n=user@pool-71-98-95-27.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:21:31 -!- phytovor is now known as doxtor 17:23:03 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:45 hi, i am as a lisp newbie trying to install weblocks following http://weblocks.viridian-project.de/installation - now i am stuck at step 5 "load the demo" - i get "component :BORDEAUX-THREADS not found, required by #" 17:25:12 you need bordeaux-threads 17:25:36 minion: tell joschan about clbuild 17:25:37 joschan: please look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 17:25:51 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:27:40 thanks i willgo and install the bordeaux thing with clbuild - i apreciate very much your help, i am very new to this 17:28:36 how do i quit this debug shell that ends with 0] in a nice way? 17:29:29 joschan: ^D 17:30:06 or use slime 17:31:41 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-22-114.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:01 stassats: i heard about slime and emacs this is the next thing on my list - will clbuild also install slime or emacs for me or can i just follow any howto on ubuntu? 17:32:33 joschan: it will install slime 17:32:50 and you can install emacs with apt-get 17:33:51 great thank you :-) 17:36:48 -!- pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:37:04 pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:43 slom_ [n=slom@pD9EB6B0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:05 c [n=codemo@s5592662f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #lisp 17:40:21 -!- c is now known as Guest72157 17:41:07 -!- Guest72157 is now known as LONGNAME 17:44:13 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:51:08 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y10.net.upc.cz] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:54:15 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 17:59:09 -!- slom_ is now known as slom 18:00:20 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 18:01:52 -!- matley [n=matley@93.68.120.221] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:02:59 matley [n=matley@93.68.120.221] has joined #lisp 18:09:40 vy [n=user@88.230.185.31] has joined #lisp 18:14:18 -!- frank_s [n=frank@41.145.42.12] has quit ["bbl"] 18:15:01 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:17:06 -!- jlf` [n=user@nmd.sbx05975.petalca.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 18:19:18 slow morning 18:20:19 -!- LONGNAME [n=codemo@s5592662f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:20:20 not to talk about this evening! phew. 18:23:39 -!- topo is now known as topo_away 18:25:37 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:26:39 -!- SandGorgon [n=user@122.163.208.25] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:26:46 -!- repnop [n=repnop@adsl-69-226-99-176.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:27:46 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:29:34 Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-3-68.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:30:56 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:30:59 -!- edmond [n=vuong@222.253.94.167] has left #lisp 18:31:25 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 18:32:34 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-60.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 18:37:38 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 18:37:56 Guest72157 [n=codemo@s5592662f.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #lisp 18:38:35 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 18:38:49 -!- Guest72157 is now known as somethingsimple 18:39:55 vfrrob [n=rroland@pool-173-55-163-52.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:33 saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 18:44:04 lacedaemon [n=algidus@88-149-208-192.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 18:44:13 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-207.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:46:57 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 18:47:26 patmaddox [n=pergesu@169.sub-70-193-22.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 18:48:53 pmaddox [n=pergesu@64.sub-70-193-26.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:03 -!- appletizer is now known as sleeptyper 18:52:08 -!- sleeptyper is now known as appletizer 18:52:37 so is clbuild preferred over mudballs? 18:54:22 does mudballs offer lots of stuff frech out of the repositories? 18:54:38 because if it doesn't, then they are not exactly comparable 18:54:48 *fresh 18:56:18 *french 18:56:25 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@169.sub-70-193-22.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:56:27 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 18:56:35 [and good evening everyone] 18:57:04 cmm, I think they are even then. The point is whatever system is the better for producing systems. 18:57:55 -!- jfactor [n=john@student166-196.hampshire.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:02:58 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 19:04:24 *beach* goes back to the important task of fixing dinner. 19:04:56 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:55 lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:07:35 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:09:46 tic: I find clbuild to be great for playing around. never tried mudballs. I'd expect neither of them to be good for "production", because you probably want to control the versions of your dependencies in production (if you have any dependencies at all) 19:10:50 cmm, I think mudballs tries to solve the versioning stuff. 19:13:35 tic: presumably the software needs to cooperate? 19:13:41 yes? 19:18:45 -!- fnordus [n=dnall@70.71.225.48] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:19:34 well, still too many things that can go wrong. 19:19:38 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 19:19:54 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 19:26:10 wakeup_ [n=wakeup@koln-4db4355f.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 19:27:29 -!- pmaddox [n=pergesu@64.sub-70-193-26.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:29:59 borism [n=boris@195-50-205-184-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 19:32:56 -!- wmaikon [n=wmaikon@189.73.122.70] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:37:25 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-73-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:40:19 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:42:14 -!- wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-4db4256b.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:44:27 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 19:44:33 sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3CAD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:38 mega1 [n=mega@3e44ae8f.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 19:47:38 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 19:48:35 wmaikon [n=wmaikon@189-11-164-134.jvece702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:51:17 H4ns [n=hans@216.112.183.3.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:08 frank_s [n=frank@41.145.42.12] has joined #lisp 19:55:02 -!- topo_away is now known as topo 19:57:19 hmm, is there a better way to evaluate a macro's argument than EVAL? 19:57:50 if you need to evaluate macro arguments at runtime, you are doing it wrong 19:57:55 ie. (defmacro foo (bar baz) `(compile-query (eval bar) baz)) 19:58:08 stassats: yeah, that's why I'm asking 19:58:12 there should be a better way 19:58:21 yes, don't do it 19:58:39 that is, bar is a form like (find-first-instance 'calendar) 19:58:44 stassats: that breaks my code 19:58:55 so I need to do or something which removes the need to do so 19:59:25 COMPILE-QUERY operates on calendards, not sexps 19:59:32 so I need it to get a real calendar 20:01:25 , 20:01:43 (defun foo (bar baz) (compile-query bar baz)) 20:02:00 stassats: but then the client needs to quote everything else manually 20:02:35 which is not ideal either 20:04:55 stassats: so is there a clean way out of this? 20:05:29 yes, not doing this is a clean way 20:07:34 eh 20:08:03 bangtree [n=user@pool-71-98-95-27.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:42 -!- Ogedei [n=user@e178243047.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:16:32 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:16:40 dammit, that's not gonna work either 20:16:46 since I internally use a macro 20:16:55 ie. inside the expansion 20:19:19 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:20:48 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 20:21:36 antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:14 mathrick: how do you know that the calandar instance is going to exist at macro-expand time? 20:22:43 gigamonkey: good observation 20:22:44 I don't 20:23:18 I'm looking for a way to delay the query compilation now, I remember there was a parameter to control that 20:23:23 What run-time work are you trying to avoid? Or are you just trying to avoid having the user of FOO have to quote stuff? 20:23:55 I.e. why is (defmacro foo (bar baz) `(compile-query ,bar ,baz)) not sufficient? 20:25:17 -!- vfrrob [n=rroland@pool-173-55-163-52.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:25:47 gigamonkey: because compile-query's output is fed to another macro, which compiles actual SQL queries. And what compile-query returns depends on what the bar is 20:26:28 there might be a solution 20:26:47 Which of these things did you write and which are given? 20:26:53 ITYM (defmacro foo (bar baz) `(compile-query ',bar ',baz)) 20:26:57 the other macro is given 20:27:23 And you wrote compile-query? 20:27:24 and know, how will your client unquote arguments? 20:27:27 but it has a :compile-at-macroexpand option which shoule help 20:27:33 s/know/now/ 20:28:19 -!- Guest93087 is now known as pkhuong 20:28:23 -!- wakeup_ [n=wakeup@koln-4db4355f.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["leaving"] 20:32:22 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-1-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:31 -!- rlpowell_ is now known as rlpowell 20:35:21 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 20:36:33 dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-154-193.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:55 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 20:41:26 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has joined #lisp 20:45:55 sohum [n=sohum@burgmann181.anu.edu.au] has joined #lisp 20:46:19 is it possible to get a method to dispatch based on expected return type? with DECLARE or somesuch? 20:47:08 sohum: yes, if you pass in the return type as parameter 20:47:48 e.g., (defmethod foo ((type (eql :string)) x y) ...) 20:48:17 ah, right, yep. as an optional or keyword, natch. 20:48:47 you can't dispatch on optionals 20:48:48 sohum: can't dispatch on non-required arguments. 20:48:48 no, you cannot dispatch on an optional or keyword parameter 20:48:58 and now as a choir :) 20:49:03 mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177075118.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:37 anybody running elephant on sbcl+mac? 20:50:40 wait, what? 20:50:50 booo 20:52:03 sohum: there's a certain danger of circularity otherwise. 20:52:32 pkhuong: circularity? 20:53:12 sohum: CL functions generally take a return type as first argument, e.g., concatenate, map, make-sequence, make-instance, ... 20:53:16 milanj [n=milan@93.87.152.91] has joined #lisp 20:53:17 sohum: the default value for optional/keyword arguments depends on the method... 20:53:57 well, you can make the type parameter required in your generic and wrap the generic in a frendlier non-generic with optional parameters and what not, and export the non-generic 20:54:24 pkhuong: couldn't you ... ooh shiny cmm 20:55:20 but the "return type is the first parameter" point is good 20:55:21 pkhuong: couldn't you solve that by only allowing the default value to be specified in the generic if you want to dispatch over it? 20:55:55 sohum: yay more special cases. I think it's preferable to just roll your own in the few cases you need this. 20:56:01 pkhuong: fair enough 21:03:08 mjf [n=mjf@r6y10.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 21:04:15 -!- dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-154-193.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:05:20 clatchardcraig [n=user@94-192-88-215.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:06:52 -!- H4ns [n=hans@216.112.183.3.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:07:04 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 21:07:49 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-60.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 21:07:56 -!- vy [n=user@88.230.185.31] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:08:17 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-60.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 21:08:51 I think I may have asked this before, but what is a plausible use case for adding a method to make-instance as opposed to initialize-instance? 21:08:57 jestocost [n=cmell@x250016.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:09:44 jcowan: returning interned instances, perhaps 21:09:51 jcowan: ensuring eq-ness 21:11:17 So you'd do that by specifying the type of the first argument as (EQL some-class-object)? 21:12:13 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:13 jcowan: I think that's not allowed. 21:12:18 neerolyte [n=lyte@60-242-109-30.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:12:44 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:13:04 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:13:20 jcowan: (defmethod make-instance ((class interning-class) ...) 21:14:09 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:14:24 I don't see how that works. The first argument is itself a class object, not an object of class interning-class. 21:14:45 (defclass interned-object-class ...) (defclass interned-object () ... :metaclass interned-object-class) 21:14:47 jcowan: interning-class is a metaclass 21:15:09 Ah. 21:15:11 (defmethod ((class interned-object-class) ...) ...) 21:15:44 alobar [n=alobar@student166-105.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 21:15:53 something like that anyway ... 21:18:19 -!- crod [n=cmell@y192012.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:19:01 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:20:35 -!- brandonz [n=brandon@96.238.16.143] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:21:12 Quadresce` [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:21:29 -!- Quadresce` [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:22:37 where interning-class or interned-object-class as the case may be must be a subclass of standard-class. 21:23:13 -!- clatchardcraig [n=user@94-192-88-215.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 21:24:17 -!- mcspiff [n=user@drmons0501w-142177075118.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:26:11 -!- neerolyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:28:38 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y10.net.upc.cz] has quit ["dew on the telephone lines"] 21:28:54 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@89.244.130.249] has joined #lisp 21:34:08 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:37:41 Quoth the CLHS: 21:37:43 defun is not required to perform any compile-time side effects. In particular, defun does not make the function definition available at compile time. 21:38:13 In that case, how do you make novel function definitions available at compile time so that they can be called from macros? 21:38:23 clhs eval-when 21:38:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_eval_w.htm 21:38:37 (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (defun ... )) 21:38:57 or put then into their own compilation unit which is loaded before the macro definitions 21:39:02 or if defun is in the file, which is compiled and loaded before the file with macros, then no eval-when needed 21:41:15 or use asdf or similar 21:41:26 "oh wait" :) 21:42:16 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:21 francogrex [n=francogr@91.180.243.114] has joined #lisp 21:43:37 doylent [n=doylent@87.19.123.38] has joined #lisp 21:45:41 -!- bangtree [n=user@pool-71-98-95-27.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:45:57 brandonz [n=brandon@96.238.16.143] has joined #lisp 21:47:01 hi i've seen this in a book but don't get what advantage does it have: 21:48:28 (defun fib (n) 21:48:28 (if (<= n 1) n 21:48:28 (+ (fib (- n 1)) (fib (- n 2))))) 21:48:31 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 21:48:33 and then 21:48:39 don't paste code here 21:48:43 lisppaste: url? 21:48:44 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 21:48:54 ok ok sorry 21:48:55 francogrex: nd then yous hould've used a pastie 21:49:07 ** sorry, lag 21:49:10 i will paste it there 21:50:14 -!- matley [n=matley@93.68.120.221] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:50:48 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-1-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:51:51 what do you mean by advantage 21:51:56 http://paste.lisp.org/display/77088 21:52:15 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 21:52:36 francogrex: as is, there's no point. 21:52:37 that's an example, how you can call functions stored in variables 21:52:44 wqhat was the use of it? 21:52:55 -!- wmaikon [n=wmaikon@189-11-164-134.jvece702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:52:56 None. You are probably missing something. 21:53:03 does it make the function go faster? 21:53:12 no 21:53:12 oh 21:53:33 then I'm missing something probably 21:53:36 thnks 21:53:43 what context is it in 21:54:30 it was part of something called "memoization" 21:54:59 memoization is an important technique. 21:55:02 Better concentrate on it. 21:56:21 -!- sohum [n=sohum@burgmann181.anu.edu.au] has quit ["waaay too late"] 21:56:34 jcowan: the key to understanding that property of defun (and other defining operators) is that they do not make their definitions available at the compilation time *of the defun form itself*. 21:56:54 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 21:57:09 Whereas if you stick it in eval-when, the defun form's run-time occurs in the middle of the compile-time of the enclosing code. 21:57:22 Quite so. 21:57:34 Another thing you can do instead of eval-when is to LOAD the defun's file before you compile the file which uses it 21:57:44 Yet this does not appear to be true of defmacro, otherwise it would be necessary to attach explicit phasing information to each macro. 21:57:58 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has left #lisp 21:57:58 Yes, defmacro applies at compile time, for sanity. 21:58:14 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:58:37 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@71-189-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 21:58:54 Other such operators are define-symbol-macro, deftype, and defconstant (sometimes) 21:59:14 "The programmer must ensure that the body of a deftype form can be evaluated at compile time if the name is referenced in subsequent type declarations." 21:59:25 Consider this: 21:59:38 -!- doylent [n=doylent@87.19.123.38] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 22:00:01 macro foo's body invokes macro bar and function baz (which also invokes macro bar) 22:00:15 jcowan: a function doesn't invoke a macro. 22:00:40 I mean that its definition contains an invocation of that macro. 22:01:24 you mean (defmacro foo () (bar)), i.e. not a quoted occurrence of bar? 22:01:58 Right. 22:02:32 IIUC, that is fine 22:02:33 You just have to make sure BAR is defined before both FOO and BAZ, and that BAR doesn't need a definition for either of the latter. 22:02:50 Sure, obviously a loop isn't going to work 22:02:56 compile-time definitions are LET*-ish not LET-ish 22:03:00 I'm not formulating this right 22:03:04 or rather, they are imperative 22:03:38 let me try again 22:04:05 the expansion function of macro foo invokes bar, so bar must be defined with eval-when compile 22:04:34 no 22:04:42 No? 22:04:50 sorry, bar is now a function 22:04:52 because defmacro is as if it were (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (runtime-defmacro)) 22:04:58 then yes 22:05:25 however, this function bar in turn uses macro baz, and baz requires function qux, .... 22:05:50 jcowan: the definition of macros is available at compile-time. 22:06:17 yes, I grasp that now 22:06:34 antgreen1 [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:57 -!- Phaze [n=PhazeDK@0x5da32b16.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1104.soebnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:07:00 However, it's not enough to mark all the functions used by macro expanders as eval-when compile-toplevel 22:07:09 at least, hmmm.... 22:07:12 why not? 22:07:56 francogrex pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77090 22:07:58 nuntius [n=nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:30 I suppose the reason it works is that an invocation of an unknown name is assumed to be a function invocation 22:08:39 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:08:46 ok I got the correct code now: http://paste.lisp.org/display/77090 22:09:17 jcowan; Yes. 22:09:42 question: this works in the interpreter: speeds up tremendously, but when compild to fas and loaded it's slow again! 22:10:18 (eval-when (...) (defun bar)) (defmacro foo ...) (eval-when (...) (defun baz () (foo))) is fine 22:10:37 blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:56 pjb annotated #77090 "compile it!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77090#1 22:12:25 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 22:14:40 Thanks pjb, but still not working. I am using ECL. Is this implementation dependent problem? 22:15:43 Perhaps. 22:16:00 Or hash tables are very slow in ECL? 22:16:34 but in the interpreter it takes less than a second 22:16:50 So if macro foo calls function bar, it is okay if function bar is defined after macro foo's definition provided the (defun bar ...) is marked as compile-toplevel? 22:16:55 Well, ecl uses gcc to compile. At run time, it's bound to be very slow. 22:17:34 hmm; ok will download sbcl and try it then 22:18:27 jcowan: yes, bar must be defined before foo is used 22:19:03 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:08 hmm, ecl give an error: The variable TABLE is unbound 22:20:26 weird 22:20:47 supposed to be very ansi compliant 22:21:10 francogrex: which means *you*'re probably doing it wrong. 22:21:53 no, it's the code posted by pjb; it workds well in sbcl 22:22:20 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:22:30 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 22:23:20 pjb: that's not guaranteed to do much. In (defun fib), calls to FIB may be compiled without doing a global lookup. 22:24:19 *jcowan* tries to decipher 3.2.2.3 22:25:06 Beket [n=stathis@ppp11-104.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:26:36 I'm surprised it works in one implemetation but not the other. Both are supposed to be good and compliant 22:27:19 -!- sulo_ [n=sulo@p54A3CAD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:27:26 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:27:36 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 22:28:17 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:28:40 -!- saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:28:48 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44ae8f.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:31:37 repnop [n=repnop@adsl-69-226-99-176.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:34 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:32:44 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 22:33:10 loxs [n=loxs@82.137.72.133] has joined #lisp 22:34:17 *rlpowell* is confused for a minute as to whether he's in #lisp or #lojban :) 22:34:23 ('lo jcowan, kpreid) 22:36:02 -!- Tordek_ is now known as Tordek 22:37:35 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:43 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:38:53 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 22:38:53 -!- loxs [n=loxs@82.137.72.133] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:40:35 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-251.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:43:51 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:44:01 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 22:44:39 blbrown_ [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:47 -!- blbrown_ [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:47:16 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:49:27 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 22:49:33 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@89.244.130.249] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:52:53 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 22:54:06 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:54:16 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 22:57:40 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-60.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 22:58:47 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.203.34] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:59:13 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:59:23 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 23:00:58 -!- antgreen1 [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:01:39 g3n3tix [n=gen@aqu33-6-88-168-81-54.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:47 mjf [n=mjf@r6y10.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 23:01:57 (say all hi!) 23:02:11 Thas1 [n=weechat@97-113-30-43.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:11 (mapc (lambda (x) (say x 'hi!)) all) 23:03:23 nice 23:03:34 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-195-1-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:21 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:04:31 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 23:05:39 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:05:56 saikat [n=saikat@r253170217.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 23:07:39 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:07:47 -!- francogrex [n=francogr@91.180.243.114] has quit [] 23:08:54 -!- Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:09:25 antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:09:28 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:09:38 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 23:10:01 -!- yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:10:02 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:10:02 you know i was looking at my kb 23:10:05 and thinking 23:10:30 that if [ and ] were merged into a tab like key 23:10:58 then the left tab could be turned into a ( and right tab could be merged into ) 23:11:17 and the tab key could be moved down one to caps lock ... which i never ever use 23:11:49 better change f to ( and j to ) 23:12:31 i wonder if we could do something similar 23:12:52 say modify the keyboard mapping and do that but make them into a double tap for () 23:13:20 -!- Thas [n=weechat@97-113-44-93.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:14:02 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:14:36 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:14:46 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 23:14:47 antgreen1 [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:17:18 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:19:08 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:43 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:19:54 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 23:22:45 -!- g3n3tix [n=gen@aqu33-6-88-168-81-54.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Bye all"] 23:24:51 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:25:01 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 23:26:38 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:26:52 has anyone here played with LFE? 23:27:04 rvirding, perhaps. 23:28:12 I was interested in Lisper's opinion as to how "lispy" it is :) 23:28:39 -!- Thas1 is now known as Thas 23:29:33 what is lfe? 23:29:42 lisp flavored erlang 23:29:59 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:30:07 or flavoured 23:30:09 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 23:30:19 oh, aha 23:30:53 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y10.net.upc.cz] has quit ["dew on the telephone lines"] 23:34:53 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:35:07 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:35:16 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 23:36:09 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:36:32 i thought it was a game :) 23:36:34 hehe 23:36:50 time to google up ratchet and clank and see if can buy a used console with that 23:40:14 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:40:24 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 23:41:02 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 23:41:27 -!- timor [n=icke@port-87-234-97-28.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:42:08 -!- brandonz [n=brandon@96.238.16.143] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:44:08 yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:05 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:45:22 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:45:32 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 23:46:04 -!- joschan [n=ad@xdsl-78-34-41-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:50:55 blitz_ [n=blitz@cl-76.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:02 H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has joined #lisp 23:55:27 -!- H4ns [n=hans@70.91.193.41] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:55:37 -!- kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:55:47 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 23:57:07 -!- lenst [n=user@217-210-57-98-no52.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:57:32 is LOOP COLLECT generally efficient on modern implementations? it doesn't need to traverse the list for each new element? 23:57:58 why should it? 23:58:06 Yes, it keeps a pointer to the last cons cell to be able to append in O(1). 23:58:12 Qsquare: nope, side-effect galore.