00:00:54 aunwork: would you recommend it? 00:01:00 -!- jfrancis__ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has quit [] 00:03:59 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-191-168.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:35 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 00:05:16 Is it possible to get a list of available slots given a CLOS object? 00:05:55 slot-list 00:06:12 thanks =) 00:06:14 Fade: what's that? 00:07:17 mop:class-direct-slots 00:07:17 barg. sorry. it's a utility from a system i had loaded. 00:07:20 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 00:07:35 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:09:13 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 00:09:24 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:11:01 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 00:11:08 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:11:30 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 00:11:59 loxs[] [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 00:12:14 Fade: LoL? 00:12:26 -!- loxs[] [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:33 yeah 00:12:55 abentspoon [n=mfivecoa@pal-178-217.itap.purdue.edu] has joined #lisp 00:13:41 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit [Client Quit] 00:15:01 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:15:32 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:17:05 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:19:34 -!- koning_robot [n=aap@dhcp-077-248-142-146.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:24:39 dtulig [n=user@cpe-72-179-46-14.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:25:15 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-133-189.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:25:46 bfein_ [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 00:25:47 dcrawford_ 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#lisp 01:57:52 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 01:58:07 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:13 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:35 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A031E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:59:41 -!- egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:59:46 egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has joined #lisp 02:00:12 hmmm, something is consing in slime with sbcl (time (sleep 5)) shows almost 400k 02:00:33 and i thought my function was consing... 02:00:44 benny [n=benny@i577A0D29.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 02:01:01 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["brb"] 02:04:56 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-150-7.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:05:25 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:20 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:06:20 -!- ampleyfly [n=ampleyfl@mustang.lysator.liu.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:06:37 antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:47 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D9D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:42 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 02:11:21 zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 02:12:57 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #lisp 02:12:57 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:13:25 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 02:13:48 sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B58C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:14:41 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:16:13 -!- sunwukong [n=salvi@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:17:01 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:17:25 sunwukong [n=salvi@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 02:19:12 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-150-7.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 02:19:15 -!- sulo [n=sulo@p57B4B5B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:19:36 is there a "macroexpand" for crazy format strings? 02:19:40 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-190-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:21:05 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-150-7.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:22:30 -!- overdrive [n=user@client-86-0-99-51.nrth.adsl.virgin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:23:46 Macroexpand a call to formatter? 02:23:54 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:50 ugh. I guess that does what I asked for, but it's not very readable either. :) 02:26:29 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-207.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:27:09 <_3b> didn't slime get something for that recently? 02:28:00 Ah, you mean that you want a format control string explainer? 02:28:24 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:29:04 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Client Quit] 02:31:36 Would (disassemble (formatter "control-string")) do? 02:31:38 <_3b> looks like it is M-x slime-format-string-expand 02:36:10 -!- bgupta [n=bgupta@dsl081-214-002.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:36:14 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 02:36:53 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:45 apparently my slime is too old for that 02:37:51 bgupta [n=bgupta@dsl081-214-002.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:33 does (time (sleep 5)) cons for anyone in slime on sbcl? 02:39:51 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:40:20 but that just calls macroexpand formatter anyways 02:41:11 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:27 apparently, sbcl/slime is doing some stuff when idle 02:42:49 koning_r1bot [n=aap@e244075.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 02:43:07 i remember seeing that before in top 02:43:26 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:34 -!- koning_robot [n=aap@e244075.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:44:21 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 02:44:34 -!- xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:45:02 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:48:35 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 02:48:57 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 02:50:32 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250017.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:54:06 -!- comex [n=comex@teklinks.org] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:54:16 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 02:57:34 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:05:22 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:07:45 c|mell [n=cmell@y192012.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 03:08:17 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:08:29 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 03:10:28 ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-75-31-250-206.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:39 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 03:16:04 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:16:11 -!- grnman [i=grnman@shell.thehostbusters.com] has left #lisp 03:18:25 ramus pasted "Variable not what it was assigned" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76867 03:21:01 -!- wmaikon [n=wmaikon@201-34-159-113.jvece702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit ["have fun guys : )"] 03:26:28 <_3b> you modify the literal list '(<==) when you update clause the first time 03:26:42 <_3b> in the first call i mean 03:26:47 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:55 <_3b> so when you initialize clause the second time, it uses the modified list 03:27:11 <_3b> try (list '<==) instead of '(<==) 03:27:32 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:28:09 ah, seems to work now, thanks 03:28:29 although i find that odd, i tend to use (var '()) to initialize empty lists and never encountered something like this 03:28:46 <_3b> nil is special 03:28:48 There aren't any operations that could modify empty lists. 03:28:55 <_3b> that too :) 03:29:04 i see 03:29:05 There are operations that can modify nonempty lists, and you applied one of them, NREVERSE. 03:29:15 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:29:29 The effect of modifying literally quoted objects is to send demons flying out of your nose. 03:29:56 heh, quite a description 03:29:59 thanks for the explanation 03:30:11 it sure would be nice if the implementation could tell you about that 03:30:36 In some implementations you will get an error, or even a hardware trap. 03:31:32 I'd quite appreciate it if the implementations I use did so. 03:34:34 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:15 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host148.201-253-13.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:37:18 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:37:48 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host17.190-137-255.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:40:29 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:41:56 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:48:19 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit ["Smile! 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Do you know if this is the same thing as hgsvn which is available at cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/hgsvn? 05:39:56 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:40:07 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:40:10 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 05:40:35 nothing in the docs either on this 05:40:49 hg is http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/ 05:41:00 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 05:41:59 ok, thanks 05:42:56 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-8-233.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:43:10 Good morning. 05:43:29 evening 05:45:43 aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has joined #lisp 05:45:50 morning. 05:46:28 man, stereolab is great coding music 05:48:23 hmm, I should add my code to the clbuild wnpp list 05:51:23 manic12 [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:53 Increasingly, I find it hard to code to anything with lyrics 05:52:04 yep 05:52:15 but if the lyrics are in a language you don't understand then it works :) 05:54:35 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 05:57:35 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:06:26 -!- manic12 [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"] 06:06:33 manic12 [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:02 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:31 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 06:23:32 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-2.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:30:37 -!- kwertii [n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:30:50 kwertii [n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:33 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:41:48 Barbara Liskov Wins Turing Award 06:48:43 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:20 appletizer [i=user@82.45.11.54] has joined #lisp 06:51:03 milanj [n=milan@93.86.57.241] has joined #lisp 06:51:03 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:56:51 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 06:58:29 sweet, I ditched the gentoo portage slime setup and now have clbuild keeping me current 06:58:32 life is good 06:58:45 and I'm getting the hang of emacs 07:01:21 rukubites [n=user@d58-110-112-61.meb3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:02:26 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.57.241] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:05:28 is there a way to get sbcl to suppress style warnings? 07:06:10 I'm already using noinform noprint disable-debugger 07:08:40 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.101.175] has joined #lisp 07:11:47 (DECLAIM (OPTIMIZE #+SBCL (SB-EXT:INHIBIT-WARNINGS 3)) #+SBCL (SB-EXT:MUFFLE-CONDITIONS (OR STYLE-WARNING SB-EXT:COMPILER-NOTE))) 07:12:23 thank you 07:12:24 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.101.175] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:12:49 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.101.175] has joined #lisp 07:14:47 still doing it 07:15:18 STYLE-WARNING: Couldn't grovel for EAI_ADDRFAMILY (unknown to the C compiler). 07:16:30 -!- X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has left #lisp 07:16:30 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.101.175] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:16:59 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 07:17:31 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f49b9.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:19:07 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:19:25 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 07:20:24 -!- kwertii [n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["bye"] 07:23:50 cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:27:13 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:30:58 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 07:36:57 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:37:33 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:40:06 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-150-7.netcologne.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:40:06 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:40:06 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:40:06 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 07:40:19 _mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:40:55 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 07:42:03 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-150-7.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:42:06 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:42:27 metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:43 plan9 [n=stian@arachnotron.sletner.com] has joined #lisp 07:43:38 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:00 -!- sunwukong [n=salvi@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has quit ["bye"] 07:46:53 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 07:48:56 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has joined #lisp 07:50:04 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:29 When I try to execute a script having "#!/usr/bin/env SBCL_HOME=/home/vy/usr/lib/sbcl /home/vy/usr/bin/sbcl --core /home/vy/usr/lib/sbcl/sbcl.core --script" header, it raises CPU usage in both cores to around %50 and does nothing. Any ideas? 07:52:30 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:54:23 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 07:56:38 -!- cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:57:18 vy: strace -p ? 07:57:28 gdb -p ...? 07:58:25 *p_l* got the sudden impression that trying to follow SBCL under GDB would be quite... "interesting" experience 07:59:09 sbcl used to do that to me when I tried to use it that way 07:59:18 not sure if I ever figured out how to fix it 08:00:11 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-90-181.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 08:00:39 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:03:25 crypto_ [n=z0d@artifact.hu] has joined #lisp 08:05:07 there is a rather low limit for the number of effective characters in a #! line 08:05:28 and for the number of arguments as well. 08:05:33 -!- manic12 [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"] 08:05:46 Here is a small excerpt from strace output: http://www.students.itu.edu.tr/~yazicivo/tmp/sbcl-script-strace.txt 08:06:20 unknown host 08:06:23 dear goodness 08:06:41 you could have pasted 1/100th of that and it'd be to much 08:07:42 ejs1 [n=eugen@94-248-90-181.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 08:07:56 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-90-181.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:07:58 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:08:28 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 08:08:40 voidengineer: I have done. Please update the page. 08:08:54 First 1000 lines. 08:09:18 the link doesn't work for me 08:09:52 mega1: How about this one: http://rafb.net/p/QdjflV31.html 08:11:05 It appears to be executing /usr/bin/env over and over again, somehow. 08:11:11 vy: no, but it seems to be local name server trouble 08:11:38 vy: I'm pretty sure that that line is too long 08:12:02 mega1: You mean the "#!/..." header line? 08:12:07 yes 08:12:37 Hrm... You could be right. BTW, how did you figure that name server problem from strace output? 08:12:49 he's having dns issues 08:13:13 both of your earls worked for me 08:13:31 -!- ampley is now known as ampleyfly 08:14:26 mega1, do you know what the char limit is? 08:14:43 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f49b9.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:15:49 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:16:05 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:16:20 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:41 beekor [n=TurdFerg@c-98-227-159-6.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:07 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 08:18:13 Isn't it possible to do something similar to: http://rafb.net/p/Jt2PsW56.html 08:19:50 kerc [n=riise@65.84-49-151.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:41 "Macros are bad, because they make source code [with custom syntax] hard to read". I know there was a discussion somewhere about that listing arguments as to why it will not make it so. Anyone remember where? 08:22:04 tombom [i=tombom@82.26.197.58] has joined #lisp 08:23:09 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 08:23:43 tic: Search keywords: Xah Lee, J. Harrop, gavino. 08:23:50 vy, heh. 08:24:03 I was thinking about a /real/ discussion. 08:27:47 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-099-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:18 tic: c.l.l. is full of it, just search for macros are bad 08:29:45 for some reason I have the feeling, that this line continued would be "macros are bad, CLOS is good, if you want Lisp-1 you know where to find it"? 08:31:05 variation on "roses are red"? 08:31:28 violets are blue, and whiners get executed 08:31:29 stassats: didn't notice that one :D 08:35:40 vy: #!/bin/sh /tmp/sbcl-with--script.sh 08:36:25 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-131-117.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:43:30 Good morning. 08:43:47 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:20 -!- rukubites [n=user@d58-110-112-61.meb3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #lisp 08:48:59 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 08:54:12 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:55:47 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:56:22 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 08:59:26 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:01:10 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:01:53 I am sure this is a FAQ, but I can't find the answer: With the CVS snapshot of SLIME, I no longer get a slime repl, just *inferior-lisp* 09:01:59 Any hints? 09:02:21 the repl became a contrib module 09:02:22 (slime-setup '(slime-repl)) 09:02:33 ah, thanks. 09:02:46 And hello dan_b! 09:02:52 seems the general trend in slime to make all the useful bits into contribs ... 09:02:58 hello spiaggia 09:03:35 It works! Thanks! 09:04:35 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:05:19 or better (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) to get already removed parts from the core, and don't bother when something will be removed in the future 09:06:56 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@y192012.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:07:39 c|mell [n=cmell@x250029.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 09:07:49 stassats: Hmm, I thought I tried that already. 09:12:47 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:16:29 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:19:49 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:07 hello 09:20:11 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:21:01 deliana [n=deliana@ABordeaux-158-1-8-233.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:23:30 hello lispers 09:23:40 hi 09:23:43 how are you kiuma 09:24:38 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:28:35 isismelting, fine thanks 09:29:39 I've nearly finished a java project, I'll soon switch again on claw-cms to finish the work, then I'll create a connector for hunchentoot-1.0 09:29:41 :) 09:30:17 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 09:31:19 *p_l* got to be a leader for university java group project... it hurts 09:33:24 kiuma - what is yoru java project 09:35:04 dojo-Tapestry5 integration 09:37:59 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:11 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit ["reboot [hung mpt fusion *sigh*]"] 09:44:02 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 09:45:20 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 09:46:34 mega1 [n=mega@3e44a8b4.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:47:31 matimago [n=user@free.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 09:49:34 vy: re http://rafb.net/p/Jt2PsW56.html, you don't need --script, but add --load "$1" to sbcl.sh 09:49:49 -!- appletizer [i=user@82.45.11.54] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:49:55 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2F094.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:13 -!- deliana [n=deliana@ABordeaux-158-1-8-233.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:52:15 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 09:53:50 -!- nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:55:35 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-50.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 09:56:10 phazec [n=p@fibhost-104-198.fibernet.bacs-net.hu] has joined #lisp 10:00:32 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:00:40 -!- phazec [n=p@fibhost-104-198.fibernet.bacs-net.hu] has left #lisp 10:02:40 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:02:47 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 10:03:51 mornfall [n=mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 10:04:56 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2D4EC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:07:54 -!- yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:10:59 Maddas [n=Maddas@tardis-b23.ee.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 10:14:27 -!- jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:14:58 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:15:31 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-099-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:17:52 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:58 yeoh [n=chatzill@60.51.82.210] has joined #lisp 10:25:06 -!- yeoh [n=chatzill@60.51.82.210] has left #lisp 10:28:05 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-50.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 10:29:19 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:29:44 g'day 10:30:04 hello schme 10:31:34 hello schme 10:32:01 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 10:33:03 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 10:33:07 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:37:55 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:38:39 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:05 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:40:05 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-191-168.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:40:33 -!- cads_ [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:41:06 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-191-168.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:42 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-191-168.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:42:22 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:43:18 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 10:43:51 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 10:44:06 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:48:07 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:51:18 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #lisp 10:51:19 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@114-198-27-181.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:53:29 attila_lendvai: identifier-and-password-authentication-instrument is gone? the dmm tests still refer to it 10:53:53 there is i-a-p-login-encapsulation instead 10:54:07 but, without subject, and not persistent 10:54:12 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:54:40 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:27 kami-: it's been turned into encrypted-password-authentication-instrument and the identifier dropped from it. the dmm tests are awfully bitrotten... 10:55:54 the encapsulation is just used to drive the authenticate generic dispatch from the gui 10:56:16 attila_lendvai: I use them to test my changes to the :export in package.lisp 10:56:31 (the test, that is) 10:56:37 s/test/tests/ 10:56:52 *attila_lendvai* pushes a bitrotten warning in the tests now 10:57:17 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:00:03 cads_ [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:09 jocke [n=jocke@dhcp-195-86.nomad.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 11:01:47 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 11:01:53 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:03:27 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:04:31 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 11:06:44 attila_lendvai: it doesn't find methode authenticate for encrypted-password-authentication-instrument 11:10:34 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 11:10:59 kami-: what is "it" 11:12:11 attila_lendvai: sorry, sbcl when running the tests (most of them finish with success, only the authenticate stuff doesn't) 11:13:10 kami-: the authentication evolved a lot since the tests were abandoned. we "test" using the real-world projects... 11:13:34 attila_lendvai: OK. I'll give it up. Thank you. 11:13:49 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:14:56 -!- abentspoon [n=mfivecoa@pal-178-217.itap.purdue.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:16:01 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:16:29 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 11:16:59 mega1: stassats: Thanks for the she-bang tips. 11:17:56 there is a new "mike's harder lemonade" that is 8% by volume. wonderful day. 11:18:52 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B31439E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:20:32 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit [Client Quit] 11:28:46 does anyone want to talk about da'ath 11:29:32 ? 11:29:36 da'ath ? 11:30:06 -!- crypto_ is now known as z0d 11:30:19 it's an abstract religious idea some mystics talk about - i want to apply certain mystical ideas to lisp programming so i thought i'd ask that here 11:31:04 schme - are you interested in the anima concept 11:31:23 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:31 isismelting: I have not an idea what you're talking about. When you say anima I think Jung. 11:31:42 I'm convinced it is not at all related to lisp. 11:31:43 that doesn't seem to be related to the channel topic 11:31:51 yeah - the jungian idea 11:32:01 see i think it is related 11:32:35 most lisp users are male and are working on some sort of artificially intelligent/intuitive entity which starts as a very abstract idea 11:33:04 What? 11:33:11 Most programmers are male. 11:33:25 Most CS students are also male. and you think this has to do with Jung? 11:33:35 with Jung, no 11:33:45 also what is this "most lisp users are working on some sorf or AI?" 11:34:04 sorry 11:34:05 AI entity. 11:34:07 ?? 11:34:11 schme: where do you get that stuff from? 11:34:25 madnificent: I am just quoting isismelting right here. 11:34:31 i want to "argue" (or explore the idea) that all of us lisp programmers are motivated by a desire to externalize our anima concepts in the most physical form possible 11:34:36 isismelting: where do you get that stuff from? 11:34:39 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A76F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:34:44 which stuff 11:34:54 isismelting: What. 11:35:08 i feel like my ideas are not welcome or relevant here 11:35:09 what schme is quoting from you... "most lisp users are working on some sort of AI?" etc 11:35:10 isismelting: At the moment I am mostly driven by the desire to keep track of what I eat. 11:35:27 that's what drives you to program in lisp? 11:35:33 isismelting: no 11:35:34 isismelting: Well it could be related to you pulling your ideas out of your ass (: 11:35:59 that's pretty rude. i'm not saying anything i haven't thought about for years. 11:36:05 isismelting: Yes. What drives me to program in lisp at the moment is the fact that I need a program to keep track of these things, and I happen to enjoy using lisp more than quite a few other languages. 11:36:20 isismelting: as you should notice when programming in lisp, it allows you to express yourself better than most other languages... it has got nothing to do with it being used for AI, or whatever 11:36:31 isismelting: I'm sorry if you find it rude, but saying that most lispers are working on some sort of AI entity.. seems to be coming out of someones ass anyway. 11:36:45 schme: cool - can you imagine having a wife who kept track of your eating? 11:37:02 schme: or from someone that has been reading history... (and only that) 11:37:08 -!- Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-171.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 11:37:13 look - 11:37:18 isismelting: IMHO, that is rude enough to be kickbanned 11:37:23 i'm very sorry that i said something that sounded like it was supposed to be a "fact" 11:37:30 isismelting: That's crazy. Why would Lisa want to keep track of my eating, and spending her days calculating all the macro and micronutrients for me? 11:37:45 isismelting: It seems a computer is a much better task for this sort of thing. 11:37:53 also she is quite busy with stuff. 11:37:57 madnificent: i'm not trying to be rude at all! 11:38:17 i have presented the idea i wanted to talk about all wrong, i'm sorry guys 11:38:29 yhara_ [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:38:35 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:38:36 why don't i just apologize and tell you i'll try to keep things more lisp-related from now on 11:38:37 is that ok 11:38:39 woah, I just read the start of this discuttion, is it felt utterly weird 11:38:49 isismelting: stay off the dope! 11:38:59 s/tti/ssi/ 11:39:03 i'm not on drugs i'm autistic 11:39:09 isismelting: Also I find CLIM a much nicer thing to work with than GTK and what not. 11:39:17 this channel is about technical sides of lisp, not philosophical 11:39:36 stassats: i can respect that - i didn't understand that. 11:39:43 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:40:01 so ahm, this strange part of the day on #lisp is over now? 11:40:16 i completely understand and will respect that this channel is for the discussion of the technical sides of lisp & not for philosophy or psychology or etc 11:40:51 really i did not mean to cause a "strange part of the day" or anything like that, madnificent 11:41:10 i apologize everyone, hopefully you'll accept that 11:41:20 isismelting: it's okay ;-) Don't worry about it :P 11:41:21 isismelting: The problem with your theory is that you seem to base it on the idea that most lispers work with AI. (: and as for my nutrition thing. My wife here has a lot to do, it's not her job to carry around a notepad and write down what I eat, and then spend her day looking in nutrient tables and draw charts for me. 11:41:28 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:41:41 isismelting: Also it is very much nice for me to actually have it on the computer. makes the data useable for all sorts of things. 11:42:05 isismelting: The choice of lisp is just a matter of my personal taste (: 11:42:18 schme - i understand, i used really poor analogy is what...i am just interested in what drives people to program 11:42:28 or what drives technology in general. 11:42:33 Oh. 11:42:48 well, that's a theme for a book 11:42:49 i don't have a point or anything really 11:43:06 gosh i'm always so surprised at how far off what i say is from what i mean 11:43:08 isismelting: What drives me is the lack of software that works the way I want it to work. 11:43:30 isismelting: It would be a *lot* easier for me if people consulted me before they wrote software ;) 11:43:34 isismelting: creating things is fun. It is a great experience. On top of that, you can get paid for it. If you're interested, you should probably look at the primitive behavior of human-like creatures. 11:43:38 schme: that is a very reasonable thing to drive your interest in programming! :) 11:44:13 madnificent: creatures like what? that sounds interesting 11:44:36 isismelting: It's all good and fun.. 'til one thinks "aw man.. lisp is broken. I just need to fix this lil' thing here...." 11:44:40 the curse of lisp. 11:45:29 i've never felt like lisp is broken - i always am endlessly fascinated by the mere idea of the cons cell... 11:45:47 (is this too philosophy-oriented?) 11:45:53 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-8-233.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:45:57 I mean lisp as in Common Lis. 11:46:01 Lisp. 11:46:12 occassionally I bump into.. oh things 11:46:17 I often think common lisp is starting to get old 11:46:32 isismelting: say less-evolved tribes, or monkeys... if you study their behavior, you can probably find some things they create. Seeing the difference between monkeys and the tribes, you'll likely find that the tribes do more planning ahead. Then again, you'd probably be having some sort of thesis in that, if you'd be describing that behavior 11:46:34 schme: can you give me an example of the sort of thing one might run into? 11:46:48 "common lisp is old" is starting to get old 11:47:01 isismelting: Nope. Not just like that. I only notice things occassionally. Then I forget. 11:47:03 koollman: well, 40 years... we should be having a midlife-crisis, no? (not CL though) 11:47:08 right. I think common lisp was old before I was born :) 11:47:12 "common lisp is very old", then. 11:47:14 madnificent: thanks, i think i could get a lot out of studying what you've suggested, and i will do so 11:47:34 isismelting: but it's all fixable. so it's goodness ;) 11:47:37 isismelting: cool 11:47:43 koollman: when were you born, may i ask? 11:47:52 CL is old, but it gets a very great deal right. 11:48:00 isismelting: 1985 11:48:11 But, most importantly, it gives you the tools to transcend CL. 11:48:34 madnificent: i think it can be easy to come off as strange or crazy when one doesn't know exactly what it is they're interested in, and is trying to find out where to go with ideas, if that makes any sense :) 11:48:39 Zhivago: exactly (: 11:49:07 koollman: then agoin, perhaps not everything can be mapped to the life of creatures... so perhaps 'age' should be inexistant. Only features matter here (and we have those) 11:49:46 i think lisp being "based off of" the idea of the cons cell and the cons function may make it such that any implementation or standard includes the tools to modify itself as is necessary. 11:50:17 isismelting: as my last words on this, try to look at the channel topic, to get a good idea about wheter your question will be accepted or not 11:50:18 koollman: i'm born in 1985 also. 11:50:28 Lisp needs neither cons cells nor cons. 11:50:41 madnificent: fair enough - thanks friend 11:50:43 all we need is lambda 11:51:24 Cons cells are useful because they give you the simplest way to make an association. 11:51:26 all we need is lambda: that is an even better way to think about it 11:51:47 zhivago: that's why i love them 11:52:16 zhivago: they remind me of the connections between cells (axons & dendrites) in the human nervous system 11:52:22 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:52:22 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:53:50 I used to think that having symbol-name and symbol-value was a bad idea. 11:54:22 But, I've come to realize that it solves the problem of linkage. 11:55:09 do you mean you imagine the names of symbols being their values as well? 11:55:13 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@94-248-90-181.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:55:22 um, no. 11:56:22 ::sigh:: hmmmm..... 11:56:34 The name of an (interned) symbol is its identity. 11:58:06 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:51 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:59 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:24 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-131-117.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:01:47 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-156-155.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:02:25 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:02:50 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:04:24 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:54 LostMonarch [n=roby@host9-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:05:05 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:06:35 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:08:26 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.135.158] has joined #lisp 12:13:44 -!- aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:14:12 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.253.239] has joined #lisp 12:15:38 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 12:16:39 So I had occasion to rebuild one of my boxes with freebsd 7.1. In building clbuild, it was interesting the number of things that got built. 12:18:32 Somehow, building darcs led to building ghc and it seems even tex and associated gear. Then later building it on the mac, it also forced a python upgrade. All worked most excellently, but it was amusing to see all this stuff get built. 12:22:10 it's hard to build darcs without ghc, and tex is for documentations? 12:24:27 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 12:26:44 -!- cads_ [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:26:45 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.133.193] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:27:14 plage [n=user@laptop-147-210-129-185.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:27:18 Good afternoon. 12:31:49 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:47 -!- yhara_ [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:35:04 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@dpc6745208046.direcpc.com] has joined #lisp 12:42:30 How can I make asdf load clx when trying to load my system? 12:43:05 make your system depend on clx? 12:43:11 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:44:09 stassats: Hmm, guess I should have read other docs than the short tutorial. Thanks a lot and sorry for the stupid queston 12:46:24 Zhivago: you're wrong. A symbol is its own identity. You can have two different symbols with the same name, eg CL-USER::X and KEYWORD::X. 12:47:30 terminology dispute! 12:50:27 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:50:33 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:53:34 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93-40-115-226.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:53:35 -!- jocke [n=jocke@dhcp-195-86.nomad.chalmers.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:53:42 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:54:08 hello 12:56:13 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:41 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:57:01 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 12:59:04 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit ["the old ways are lost"] 13:00:08 minion: how are you today? 13:00:08 it's going quite fine today 13:00:09 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 13:00:10 I thought so. What happened to minion? 13:00:14 it exploded 13:00:39 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:00:57 -!- plage [n=user@laptop-147-210-129-185.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:02:29 plage [n=user@laptop-147-210-129-185.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 13:02:34 OK, I'm back 13:02:58 minion: are you a bot? 13:02:58 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 13:03:25 minion: where is beach today? 13:03:26 behind you! 13:03:36 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:05:04 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:02 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:06:23 mornfall [n=mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 13:06:29 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 13:08:48 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:09:07 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit [Client Quit] 13:09:55 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 13:10:10 minion: where is your mom 13:10:11 behind you! 13:10:18 minion: no she is not. 13:10:18 are you saying NO just to be negative? 13:10:25 minion: if anything, it would be the revers. 13:10:26 Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 16 seconds is too many. 13:10:43 minion: you know you like it. 13:10:44 what's up? 13:11:53 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 13:13:09 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:16:48 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Dead socket] 13:17:22 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:23:06 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 13:25:26 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:36 deliana [n=deliana@147.210.246.189] has joined #lisp 13:25:46 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 13:27:13 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@142.204.16.10] has joined #lisp 13:29:03 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 13:29:04 stassats: Yes, I believe it is for documentation. 13:30:37 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit [Client Quit] 13:30:48 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:30:55 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 13:36:10 -!- karma_ [n=karma@62.140.250.221] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:37:24 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:37:41 karma_ [n=karma@62.140.250.221] has joined #lisp 13:38:44 I installed clisp with "apt-get install clisp" on Ubuntu. FastCGI don't come with clisp in default? How can I build clisp with FastCGI then? 13:39:07 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has joined #lisp 13:39:58 what does fastcgi have to do with lisp? 13:40:08 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:40:18 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:29 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 13:41:09 jsoft: My clisp could not find fastcgi package. http://clisp.cons.org/impnotes/fastcgi.html 13:41:35 tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:15 tomoyuki28jp: what does *features* tell you? 13:42:24 there should be the symbol :fastcgi 13:43:00 tomoyuki28jp: try running it as "clisp -ansi -K full" 13:44:43 fe[nl]ix: I did, but still no :fastcgi in *features* 13:45:25 is there a way to see compile flags? 13:45:34 http://paste.lisp.org/display/76889 13:46:32 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-97-1.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 13:46:42 KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:46:47 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@142.204.16.10] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:46:47 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:46:47 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-156-155.vologda.ru] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:46:47 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:46:47 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:46:47 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:46:47 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:46:47 -!- rodge [n=roderic@129.10.116.123] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:46:47 -!- albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:46:47 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:46:47 -!- p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:46:47 -!- aking [n=aking@207.210.78.49] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:46:47 -!- clog [i=nef@bespin.org] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:47:42 a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has joined #lisp 13:48:08 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 13:48:13 So it seems like "apt-get install clisp" don't give us FastCGI support? 13:49:04 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@142.204.16.10] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-156-155.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 rodge [n=roderic@129.10.116.123] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 aking [n=aking@207.210.78.49] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 clog [i=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:56 -!- albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:50:01 albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 13:50:33 tomoyuki28jp: most distributions do not come with a very well maintained set of common lisp implementations. 13:50:50 tomoyuki28jp: so you're propably better off compiling from source, with the options that you need. 13:50:52 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp419.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:51:24 H4ns: I will try to get from the source. Thanks for your advice all the time. 13:55:09 tomoyuki28jp: apparently yes. I bet it's because of the licence of the FCGI library 13:55:35 fe[nl]ix: oh, I see. thanks for the info. 13:55:47 Are there any libraries providing strftime like functionality? 13:56:07 nurv101 [n=askmefor@cidhcp132.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 13:56:44 vy: perhaps local-time 13:57:07 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1FCA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:08 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1CABF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:58:01 -!- turbo24prg [n=turbo24p@mail.turbolent.com] has quit ["leaving"] 14:00:37 There was a trivial-* library that had it too 14:00:43 I can't find it now tho 14:01:36 fe[nl]ix: I checked local-time out, but couldn't find a suitable function for it. Do I miss something? 14:01:46 oh, here we go. net-telent-date 14:01:51 vy: format-timestamp :p 14:02:19 er, format-timestring 14:02:21 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@142.204.16.10] has quit [No route to host] 14:02:25 dlowe: I think you meant FORMAT-TIMESTRING? 14:02:35 But it doesn't do that either. 14:02:40 hm. The manual on the site no longer matches the actual API 14:02:49 Yep, it's another story... 14:02:52 nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:19 vy: well, it does now if you look at the manual in the repo 14:04:09 *dlowe* needs to make another release. 14:05:11 You sure it is consistent with the ASDF package? 14:05:18 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #lisp 14:05:40 vy: the asdf-install release is really old 14:05:59 Hrm... I'd be appreciated if you can update that too. 14:06:06 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 14:07:40 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:07:41 dlowe: I'm working on a PLEAC chapter and I don't want to tell people that "you need to get latest darcs repo of this and mess with command line ASDF linking stuff", instead of saying "just ASDF-INSTALL it". 14:07:56 vy: ah, I did the first few of those 14:09:36 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:14:48 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:14:48 -!- rodge [n=roderic@129.10.116.123] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:14:48 -!- boyscared [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:14:48 -!- p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:14:48 -!- aking [n=aking@207.210.78.49] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:14:48 -!- clog [i=nef@bespin.org] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:14:48 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:14:48 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-156-155.vologda.ru] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:14:48 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:14:48 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:14:48 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:15:04 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:04 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-156-155.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:15:04 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:04 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:15:04 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 14:15:04 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 14:15:04 rodge [n=roderic@129.10.116.123] has joined #lisp 14:15:04 aking [n=aking@207.210.78.49] has joined #lisp 14:15:04 clog [i=nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 14:15:04 boyscared [n=bm3719@c-69-143-195-98.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:04 p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 14:16:13 vy: all updated 14:17:32 dlowe: Great, now it requires asdf-system-connections. 14:18:40 I'd better write my own %s, %Y, ... parser from scratch. 14:18:55 abentspoon [n=mfivecoa@pal-163-097.itap.purdue.edu] has joined #lisp 14:19:30 asdf-system-connections is pretty nice. I wish it'd be integrated with asdf 14:19:57 the "just ASDF-INSTALL it" advice should still work 14:20:00 I really hope not 14:22:10 What's your issue with it? 14:22:38 crazy. I last updated the local-time release on 2008-03-12 14:24:33 hjpark [n=user@116.40.135.22] has joined #lisp 14:25:30 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E75A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:24 Good schedule. 14:26:30 dlowe: a-s-c loads additional code depending on whether or not some other packages are present in the image 14:26:43 which leads to an incomplete dependency graph 14:27:14 jocke_ [n=jocke@dhcp-199-113.nomad.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 14:27:22 I've had countless problems with gary king's packages exactly because of that 14:28:01 therefore nowadays I simply refuse to use any library that uses a-s-c 14:28:07 fe[nl]ix: there's nothing else that allows local-time and postmodern integration without one depending on the other 14:28:15 if I really need it, I fork it and remove a any use of a-s-c 14:28:43 dlowe: It'd be really awesome if you can remove that a-s-c dependency. (I concluded to that idea after checking strftime(3) manual.) 14:29:30 vy: ok, give me a way to integrate local-time with postmodern without one requiring the other 14:29:54 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D83B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:03 just have postmodern depend on local-time 14:30:09 what's the problem ? 14:30:17 Uh, I don't have anything to do with postmodern 14:30:23 dlowe: Create a contrib directory and move irrelavant stuff to there? 14:30:35 fe[nl]ix: +1 14:30:45 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Success] 14:30:49 -1 unpossible 14:30:59 -1 not a word 14:31:08 impossible? 14:31:13 incf 14:31:23 -1 a word means what I mean it to mean 14:32:09 dlowe: if I agree, then we won't get an existential discussion, right? 14:32:16 on topic: dlowe: why not? 14:33:05 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@dpc6745208046.direcpc.com] has quit [] 14:33:45 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:33:55 madnificent: why not browbeat Haverbeke into using local-time in his library? because I don't feel like giving him work for my own convenience 14:35:08 dlowe: you could ask him, perhaps he had plans in that direction (besides that, I like the reasoning) 14:35:38 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:36:03 madnificent: if he wanted to, I'm sure he would have already. He knows about it already. 14:37:14 but local-time doesn't depend on postmodern, does it? 14:37:24 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:37:28 *cmm* fails to understand something fundamental here, it seems 14:37:55 cmm: neither of them depend on each other. I use asdf-system-connections to automatically load integration code if they're both loaded. Some people object to the use of a-s-c. 14:37:58 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.228] has joined #lisp 14:38:13 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:38:15 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-150-7.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:38:40 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 14:38:50 dlowe: got the objection part :) 14:39:24 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 14:39:55 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:08 manic12 [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:06 -!- jfactor [n=john@student167-155.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:42:39 wow, the a-s-c thing sounds like a horrible, horrible idea. even after I've read the motivational prose on its home page 14:43:58 "Rather than requiring you to remember to load that extra system (and to load it only after both Cl-Containers and CL-Variates are loaded)" -- and that is a hard problem that requires a counter-intuitive and invasive "solution" how, exactly? 14:43:58 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:33 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:44:35 hey, what kind of LARTing can I expect if I use stuff in sb-unix instead of sb-posix? the docs tell me sb-unix is for internal sbcl use (only?) 14:44:52 basicalyl, it might not be there in a later version 14:45:00 i need something other than sockets for efficient IPC both on win32 and unix, preferably pipes 14:45:09 fusss: the question is, why LART? Consider yourself a luser? :D 14:45:19 fusss: shared memory? 14:45:27 dan_b: yeah? 14:45:31 the better solution would be to add the stuff you require to sb-posix and send a patch 14:45:36 fusss: you could wrap libc yourself with sb-alien, or just not worry about it until sb-unix disappears/changes. 14:46:06 dlowe: it's very easy to break that postmodern+local-time integration code you have 14:46:23 pkhuong: willy nilly? just wrap libc? you're right actually 14:46:46 fusss: write your own library wrapping both libc for unix and various windows IPC for win32 :) 14:46:56 historically the sb-unix package (and the cmucl UNIX package it started life as) are manually maintained glue code and there's no point keeping more of that around than necessary for sbcl itself 14:47:13 whereas there's at least a little bit of structure behind sb-posix 14:47:56 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [] 14:48:50 fe[nl]ix: I haven't received any better patches, and it works for me 14:49:09 actually, let me dig into Hart and see if win32's pipes don't depend on nasty large structures. this sounds encouraging :-) 14:49:11 dlowe: it works only by chance 14:49:25 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:36 jfactor [n=john@student165-101.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 14:52:18 heh, aside from LPSECURITY_ATTRIBUTES, all win32 pipe related functions seem to take DWORD and other primitive arguments :-) 14:53:03 fe[nl]ix: do you have any other concrete helpful suggestions? 14:54:17 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:54:50 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 14:55:53 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-110-88.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 14:56:01 sweemeng [n=sweemeng@236.56.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 14:56:03 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:12 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:26 dlowe: yes, drop a-s-c and make a separate .asd for that code 14:57:34 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:58:03 fe[nl]ix: presumably it would still be "very easy to break" 14:58:43 considering that asdf-installs loads all *.asd 14:58:47 What does this "FFI" mean? ./configure: modules fastcgi require FFI 14:58:50 which ranks up with "there's a problem with the thing" in the top 100 useless bug reports 14:58:57 foreign function interface 14:59:08 stassats: thanks. How can I get it? 15:00:00 -!- sweemeng [n=sweemeng@236.56.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Client Quit] 15:00:03 tomoyuki28jp: you need libffi or something with similar name, it should be mentioned in the README/INSTALL 15:00:19 tomoyuki28jp: it appears you've managed to build your clisp without FFI. run clisp's ./configure --help and see what you've missed 15:00:52 cmm: I am actually trying to re-build clisp with FastCGI module. 15:00:59 libffcall 15:01:00 dlowe: not in that case 15:01:07 cmm: I will try ./configure --help, thanks 15:01:25 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:01:39 don't know whether libffcall1-dev from ubuntu will work 15:01:58 tomoyuki28jp: most probably you'll need --with-dynamic-ffi, which needs the libffcall-dev package 15:02:21 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.228] has quit ["Leaving..."] 15:03:17 or perhaps something else, the configure help should say what exactly 15:04:02 stassats: libffcall1-dev from ubuntu didn't work 15:04:15 cmm: --with-dynamic-ffi didn't work too 15:04:17 uhm 15:04:19 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250029.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:04:37 well, build libffcall1 by yourself 15:04:58 stassats: I will try that way, thanks! 15:05:14 tomoyuki28jp: well, just read stuff carefully, then, building clisp on its most well-supported pplatform is not rocket science :) 15:05:40 usually, they are troubles with libsigsegv and libffcall 15:05:53 there 15:05:55 cmm: read what? README file? 15:06:03 debian comes with -dev packages of both, doesn't it? 15:06:20 c|mell [n=cmell@y192025.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 15:06:32 tomoyuki28jp: INSTALL, the configure help, the configure output, the make output, etc 15:06:47 it does, but they're buggy, last time i checked 15:07:23 also, perhaps it's possible to compile a clisp add-on on top of already-installed clisp? because the debian clisp does come with working ffi 15:07:39 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:07:49 but perhaps not 15:07:56 fsvo, it fails on some tests 15:08:06 oh 15:08:19 dlowe: Considering your decision, now %99 of the lisp community is not able to *easily* install your local-time package. I hope you also count that drawback too. 15:08:23 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 15:08:29 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:08:36 checking libffcall from VCS worked for me 15:09:33 vy: now? 15:10:21 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.88.5] has joined #lisp 15:10:43 vy: how is the dependency on a-s-c harder to resolve than the dependency on cl-fad? 15:12:07 dlowe: I meant the a-s-c dependency. (Did I miss anything? local-time still _requires_ a-s-c, right?) 15:12:21 vy: local-time still _requires_ cl-fad 15:12:48 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:13:00 however, I just noticed that a-s-c isn't listed as a dependency of the local-time system, so it won't be loaded by asdf-install 15:13:13 harrumph. 15:14:25 dlowe: I'm still not able to `ASDF-INSTALL:INSTALL' local-time without a-s-c. 15:15:27 uhm, I get this error when I try to make FastCGI module of Clisp spvw_memfile.d:1706: warning: format '%u' expects type 'unsigned int', but argument 3 has type 'uintL' 15:15:27 make: *** [spvw.o] Error 1 15:16:44 it compiles with -Werror? 15:17:19 stassats: I just run "make MODULES=fastcgi" as the README says. 15:17:20 envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 15:18:06 -!- envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Client Quit] 15:18:26 dlowe: that's not a problem in this case. either a-s-c is already installed in which case it will be loaded by the eval-when on top of the .asd, or it isn't in which case the defsystem-connection form won't be evaluated. 15:18:59 adding a-s-c to the dependency list is useless in both cases 15:19:19 The output is this. http://paste.lisp.org/display/76896 15:19:30 but it does signal an error when unable to load asc 15:19:42 fe[nl]ix: except the the eval-when gets upset when asdf-system-connections isn't present and refuses to loda 15:20:51 right 15:24:06 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:24:14 so I am thinking I coudl take an adaptive approach to making araneida launch new threads - only start new ones if the cpu percentage is less than, say, 80 15:24:42 that way I get full use of all cores but not doing a zillion useless context switche 15:25:04 there must be a catch to this otherwise everyone would do it, but I can't think what 15:26:02 obviously it would need to ramp up gradually si it could see the effect of each new thread on cpu before starting the next 15:27:08 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:27:11 ``Erik__ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:03 i think it's a good idea to use sb-win32 as a stub package to enrich sb-unix; currently Win32 functions I wrapped to create posix system calls. 15:28:22 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:28:23 dan_b: how would you measure cpu percentage? 15:28:35 reading from /proc/stat - that bit works already 15:29:06 dan_b: wouldn't loadav work better for that? 15:29:41 dan_b pasted "/proc/stat" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76897 15:29:52 loadav reacts even more slowly though 15:30:56 I realised last night that my siege benchmarks were even less diretly applicable to anything than I thought they'd be, cos it's not fetching all the images and css that a human ua would 15:31:24 but hey, as long as it's consistent I suppose that's what matters 15:32:23 envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 15:32:27 -!- envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:33:08 and yeah, I know that reopening the file repeatedly looks inefficient, but /proc files don't support seek(). seems to eat 0-1% of cpu on my laptop 15:34:21 postamar [n=postamar@bas11-ottawa23-1096658321.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:35:26 postamar_ [n=postamar@206-248-181-44.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:26 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:37:30 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp419.studby.uio.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:38:13 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:39:11 dlowe: what is considered 'loaded' with loadav varies with the number of processors though right? 15:41:04 UnwashedMeme: sure, but you can consider that as static 15:42:37 Finally I installed clisp with FastCGI. Thanks for the all people gave me an advice. 15:44:28 -!- dtulig [n=user@cpe-72-179-46-14.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 15:44:32 vy: alright, you should be able to load local-time sans a-s-c 15:45:03 also loadavg counts processes in D wait, which are not using any cpu 15:45:22 hmm. so does my code 15:45:47 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:18 'morning 15:48:17 vinc456 [n=user@unaffiliated/vinc456] has joined #lisp 15:49:22 good morning Fade 15:50:34 ``Erik___ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:42 dlowe: Thanks. Now it works. But, IMHO, it'd be awesome if :FORMAT keyword could accept a string that's formatted in a fashion similar to libc strftime format string. 15:51:24 milanj [n=milan@93.86.188.216] has joined #lisp 15:51:25 vy: I eagerly await your patch 15:51:27 -!- totzeit [n=user@dsl102.zipcon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:51:41 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:51:53 -!- ``Erik__ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:52:06 string parsing doesn't sound very lispy 15:52:13 (format-universal-time n '(:day "-" (:month-name 3) "-" :year))) 15:52:15 -!- ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-132-232.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:52:36 dan_b: that's pretty much what format-timestring looks like 15:52:38 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@97-89-230-116.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:02 but vy is attempting to emulate aspects of perl 15:54:02 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:17 cltl sleep 15:54:29 or how do you go about calling the bot 15:54:36 that could be tricky unless he wants to experimentally redefine random shit every couple of years 15:54:49 dan_b: score! 15:55:13 clhs sleep 15:55:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sleep.htm 15:55:27 thanks, got that in private already :) 15:55:50 baffg [n=htump@c-69-254-138-249.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:30 -!- postamar [n=postamar@bas11-ottawa23-1096658321.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:00:19 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:01:19 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:01:46 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:02:53 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.135.158] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:03:56 -!- postamar_ [n=postamar@206-248-181-44.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 16:04:09 postamar [n=postamar@206-248-181-44.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:34 deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has joined #lisp 16:04:53 kefka [n=user@ec2-75-101-205-165.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:08 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-71-87.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:06:27 Good afternoon. 16:06:29 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:06:36 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:06:44 Greetings 16:07:20 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:07:24 hello tmh 16:07:31 hello beach 16:07:35 -!- jfactor [n=john@student165-101.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:08:05 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:07 vy pasted "strftime" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76900 16:11:15 It's 2009, and we're messing with strftime. What a time waste! 16:11:37 that was my thought. 16:12:41 comex [n=comex@teklinks.org] has joined #lisp 16:13:18 that's a nice utility. 16:13:26 I sometimes think that, what if I'd implement a programming language borrowing _all_ available features (RoR, Terracotta, etc.) from _all_ available programming languages (Java, Python, etc.). 16:13:43 You'd end up with an incoherent mess? 16:14:10 is there registry/list of all the libraries loaded with sb-alien:load-shared-object somewhere? i'm interested in system libraries used by sbcl itself; can assume libc is _always_ loaded, even though I can't imagine sbcl being functional without it (in win32 it's hard to tell which of the many main DLLs is considered "system library" by sbcl) 16:14:15 Zhivago: Isn't it the thing that attracts people? 16:14:42 I'm not sure. I'm kind of leaning toward the idea that a simple operation model does. 16:15:09 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.88.5] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:15:34 RISC? 16:15:59 risc isn't that simple, because it involves understanding a small number of instructions and how they interact. 16:16:19 That is, you need to construct an internal model of some depth. 16:16:40 Php, on the other hand consists of incantations that do stuff. Partial incantations do partial stuff. 16:16:57 There is no deep structure -- just shallow complexity. 16:17:05 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:17:19 This seems to appeal to many people. 16:17:59 -!- kerc [n=riise@65.84-49-151.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:18:18 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:18:30 vy: some options are mutually exclusive. (perl's "we have all" vs python's "one way") 16:18:56 You just need a feature to select between the two :) 16:19:21 vs ruby's "do you want me to have that thing you are not sure you want?" 16:19:32 Zhivago: That's a good idea!' 16:20:43 Zhivago: nono, I wrote in ultimatelang "full featured". NO, I don't like that! you need to use the "one way" version... sounds even worse than lisp (in which there are just as many libraries as there are users) 16:20:55 -!- a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:21:23 fusss: that's easy to implement, just add random features :P 16:23:28 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.88.5] has joined #lisp 16:25:23 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 16:26:14 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 16:27:18 cads_ [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:08 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-110-88.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:57 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:28:59 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 16:31:37 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:40 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:42 -!- hjpark [n=user@116.40.135.22] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:32:44 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has left #lisp 16:34:08 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:35:56 cads__ [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:06 rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:36:35 http://www.gnufans.net/~deego/emacspub/lisp-mine/cl-multiple/dev/cl-multiple.el - any feedback/hints? 16:37:19 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:37:39 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:23 fusss__ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:23 -!- fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:40:48 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:41:06 jfactor [n=john@student164-179.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 16:42:41 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:42:51 -!- fusss__ is now known as fusss 16:43:27 -!- cads_ [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 16:46:21 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:49:53 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:51:07 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:07 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:54:51 -!- abentspoon [n=mfivecoa@pal-163-097.itap.purdue.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:54:55 abentspoon [n=mfivecoa@pal-163-097.itap.purdue.edu] has joined #lisp 16:56:51 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:57:05 -!- addled [n=adl@19.Red-83-38-55.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:58:48 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:17 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has quit [] 17:03:21 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E75A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:03:27 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 17:04:44 -!- jfactor [n=john@student164-179.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:06:19 _``Erik__ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:35 does anyone here have some parenscript experience? I'm trying to convert an example to parenscript, but I don't know how: $(document).ready(function(){$("a").click( ... )}; 17:07:17 -!- ``Erik___ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:10:01 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:10:33 athos [n=philipp@p54B85166.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:57 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:14:25 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:39 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 17:16:35 iStig [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:16:39 does last slime works with sbcl 1.0.26 (os x) ? 17:16:43 __``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:58 i mean, it does not works for me 17:17:15 on ccl 1.3 also 17:17:15 -!- _``Erik__ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:17:47 what does it say? 17:20:05 ;; Swank started at port: 60221. 17:20:10 last line 17:20:16 but no compilation errors 17:20:18 just some notes 17:20:28 (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 17:20:39 jfactor [n=john@student166-82.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 17:22:05 ** I've found how to convert it for the main part, but not the $(document), I always have quotes around document 17:22:12 i fail to understand why slime does not work out of the box anymore. 17:22:32 i mean, i understand the technical reason, but what is the motivation? 17:23:04 H4ns: I think we're supposed to complain about that on the mailing list. 17:23:33 pkhuong: hm, ok. maybe i'll do that 17:24:40 a little too late, it already have caused many inconveniences 17:26:16 thanks pkhoung 17:27:54 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:28:20 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-191-168.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:38 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@151.204.133.189] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:32:02 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-205-125-240.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:23 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:32:47 -!- jfactor [n=john@student166-82.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:35:29 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-191-168.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:35:29 -!- iStig [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:35:29 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:35:29 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:35:29 -!- dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:35:59 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-191-168.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:59 iStig [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:59 rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:59 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:59 dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #lisp 17:36:27 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 17:36:38 rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:49 dostoyev1ky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #lisp 17:37:11 milanj: i just installed it the other day and it worked without any problems 17:38:00 ___``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:01 yes, problem was i had only (slime-setup) in my .emacs, it worked with older slime 17:38:06 milanj: simplest on osx is just to download aquamacs, the slime .pkg and set sbcl as your lisp in .emacs and you are good to go 17:38:36 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:39:16 iStig: that's probably because you have an older version of slime. 17:40:00 pkhuong: maybe, i just grabbed the .pkg at the aquamacs site 17:40:23 pkhuong: it has no problems working with sbcl though 17:41:31 pkhuong: seems to be built daily 17:43:05 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 17:46:02 hmm, someone here mentioned compilation slowdown last slime/sbcl related 17:46:23 f00f [n=f00f@c-0f5fe353.732-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:46:38 -!- f00f is now known as g00f 17:46:41 it's obvious 17:46:45 -!- g00f is now known as e00f 17:47:09 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:49:02 -!- __``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:49:42 -!- dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [Connection refused] 17:49:56 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 17:50:22 ArchGh0ul [n=goblin@89.136.174.25] has joined #lisp 17:50:27 Hello 17:50:34 Hello 17:51:02 So glad people are actually in here :). Started learning lisp 2 hours ago. Kind of a bumpy road but I like it a lot 17:51:23 jfactor [n=john@student164-179.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 17:51:43 ArchGh0ul: Good to hear you like it. 17:52:08 you found #lisp within two hours.. impressive. :) 17:52:37 I took HTTP Server + CGI Benchmark. http://paste.lisp.org/display/76905 17:52:42 I found it in 1 minute 17:52:52 spent the last 2 hours learning how to define functions :) 17:53:15 I had emacs already setup as I use it as my editor without actually doing lisp 17:53:27 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.88.5] has quit [] 17:53:57 well, that's usually the first hurdle. 17:54:11 -!- athos [n=philipp@p54B85166.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 17:54:14 I've seen the "how do I work in lisp with vi?" question a bit too often. 17:54:26 "copy & paste" 17:54:35 -!- jocke_ [n=jocke@dhcp-199-113.nomad.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lämnar"] 17:55:11 -!- ___``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:55:25 I still have to learn how to return values from within a custom function 17:55:30 So my conclusion is "apache + mod_proxy + hunchentoot" is the most useful combination". Do you guys agree with this? 17:55:46 a function returns the last form 17:56:03 ArchGh0ul: The value of the last expression in the function. (what Fade said) 17:56:51 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:55 if you've built up a series of values inside your function, you can return more than one with the 'values' function 17:57:03 (values a b c d e) 17:57:27 Fade: my teaching experience tells me that might be premature. 17:57:36 <-- not a teacher 17:57:51 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:57:57 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 17:58:38 So whatever I do with the custom function, the last output in that function is the return value? 17:58:40 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:46 ArchGh0ul: you should look at this: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 17:58:54 was going to ask that next 17:59:00 a good resource for learning :) 17:59:05 thanks 17:59:05 indeed. 17:59:27 the consensus is that it's currently one of the best introductory texts on common isp. 17:59:30 Do any of you guys do xlib stuff? 17:59:31 lisp 17:59:39 I can't seem to be able to install it 17:59:49 ArchGh0ul: what happens when you try? 17:59:55 I have emacs + slime +sbcl all setup and working 18:00:06 ArchGh0ul: the thing to install is called CLX 18:00:22 well I *think* I installed it yesterday (clx) but when I tried to load some hello world it said xlib not found 18:00:45 ArchGh0ul: You need to load the library every time you start Lisp. 18:00:56 so in .emacs? 18:01:13 ArchGh0ul: what implementation are you using? 18:01:25 you should probably worry about that after you grasp the basics of working in lisp. 18:01:30 ArchGh0ul: probably in .sbclrc if you are using SBCL 18:01:35 oh ok 18:01:43 yes I use emacs + slime + sbcl 18:01:59 but you are probably right..learning lisp first then xlib+lisp 18:02:16 And then CLIM :) 18:02:17 I am already a medium xlib programmer..so I can do that stuff in C for the time being 18:02:21 hi, i've a problem with cl-zip, i wrote to ml, but it seems there's nobody on the other side... maybe someone here can help? I guess it's some kind of portability problem, but i'm not too versed on types of lisp streams http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/zip-devel/2009-March/000050.html 18:02:27 clx or clisp-new-clx ? 18:02:29 I can have both 18:02:42 If you're already good with xlib, it seems a not so bad thing to use it as a vehicle to learn lisp 18:02:58 I know enough to write my own WM wich I have done :) 18:03:02 ArchGh0ul: if you are using SBCL, you don't want anything that has CLISP in its name. 18:03:04 buggy as hell but it does work lol 18:03:18 what? 18:03:47 ArchGh0ul: CLISP is another implementation of Common Lisp. 18:04:02 thought it's the same thing 18:04:07 Nope 18:04:12 clisp is written in C 18:04:29 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:46 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:04:59 "clisp" is never short for "common lisp" 18:05:22 despite newbies trying to make it so every other day 18:05:56 ArchGh0ul: i got my clue after visiting cliki 18:05:56 ArchGh0ul: if you're interested in that kind of thing, the stumpwm codebase provides a pretty good example of interacting with X from common lisp. 18:06:01 hefner: the name does hint to it 18:06:03 after prolonged SBCL/CCL use, you even start to drop `c' from `gcl' ;-) 18:06:12 hefner: do we actually get a newbie every other day? 18:06:25 yeh I tried stumpwm 18:06:27 hefner: if so, that's good news. 18:06:31 EvilWM user here though 18:06:31 beach: you'd know better than I. I think there are some perma-newbies. 18:06:38 true 18:06:50 So emacs + sbcl + slime + clx is what I need? 18:06:52 much less confusing if they'd just rename it to menorahlisp or something 18:07:01 ArchGh0ul: Also check out the Eclipse window manager written in Common Lisp. 18:07:02 ___``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:14 ArchGh0ul: that's what I use, plus CLIM of course. 18:07:15 i'm the newbie from yesterday. i dunno who today's is. 18:07:29 I just meant as an example of xlib programming in lisp, not as a recommendation for a wm. :) 18:07:40 beekor: looks like hefner is right (based on some small statistical sample) :) 18:07:41 what is CLIM? 18:07:43 although I do personally like it. 18:07:48 beekor: welcome 18:07:50 minion: tell ArchGh0ul about CLIM 18:07:51 ArchGh0ul: direct your attention towards CLIM: The Common Lisp Interface Manager (CLIM) is a powerful Lisp-based programming interface that provides a layered set of portable facilities for constructing user interfaces. http://www.cliki.net/CLIM 18:07:51 clim is a pain in the ass. 18:07:53 lol 18:08:01 I ned to go for about 20 minutes 18:08:02 Fade: I don't agree. 18:08:07 willbe back to pick your brains :) 18:08:19 sorry for my spacebar.. 18:08:21 I agree with Fade, its too hard to get started with 18:08:34 thanks yo. For my first question. I'm brandassnew to lisp, and have started reading Seibel's Practical Common Lisp. Is that a sufficient place to start ? 18:08:41 madnificent: that's not the same as "pain in the ass". 18:08:51 beekor: yes 18:08:53 madnificent: with that definition, Lisp is also a pain in th ass. 18:09:19 ArchGh0ul: if you want to make graphical apps quickly, look at ltk (it is very simple, yet far less innovating) 18:09:26 madnificent: it's probably much less of PITA when you use a fully supported commercial CLIM implementation... Unfortunately mine decided to run away and not leave contact info 18:09:35 beekor: gigamonkey's book + cliki + hyperspec is how i got started 18:09:50 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:25 and i'm as brandassnew as you are 18:10:28 beach: have you built anything signifigant in clim? apart from climacs and closure, i'm not aware of other examples. 18:10:46 minion: tell Fade about Gsharp 18:10:47 Fade: direct your attention towards Gsharp: Gsharp is a graphical, interactive score editing application for standard Music notation. http://www.cliki.net/Gsharp 18:10:50 -!- drwhen [n=d@c-69-142-90-235.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:10:55 beach: not really actually. The time to spend on it to learn it, makes it a PITA for me. It is perfectly possible that lisp takes more time to learn, but that I'd be willing to spend much more time learning it, which doesn't make it a pita to me... 18:11:01 so should i follow his example and try emacs with slime ? I've never used emacs before, but I guess I'm up for it. 18:11:09 beach: the reasons for being a PITA can vary 18:11:12 Fade: Plus half a dozen or so things that I just use for private things. 18:11:19 beekor: what would you prefer as ur editor? 18:11:27 p_l: could be true 18:11:29 interesting. 18:11:40 Fade: I also know of at least one commercial company distributing applications based on McCLIM. 18:11:55 i use nano to edit, but only for its simplicity. it's not really much of an IDE, or even a part of one. 18:12:09 beekor: use emac 18:12:19 I'm always put off by McCLIM usually managing to crash when I run demos and I don't know enough to fix them :D 18:12:19 beekor: learning imacs isn't the easiest thing. Over time, you'll probably start to appreciate it. 18:12:34 madnificent: I thought you said that you agreed with Fade and it was hard to get started with, from which I concluded that you meant that things that are hard to get started with are a PITA. 18:12:42 madnificent: so that would be the case for Lisp as well. 18:12:46 yeah that's what i've always heard. that it's learning curve was steep but worth the time. 18:13:12 i didn't find lisp difficult to get started with. between siebel and graham, the docs are excellent. 18:13:21 okay, i'll start there. thanks for the advice, ya'll. i'm just gonna lurk here for awhile now, I think. 18:13:34 beekor: the only thing you'll probably find PITA in the end with emacs is that it is not threaded ;-) 18:13:40 Fade: then please accept that there are people who find CLIM liberating and not at all hard to get started with. 18:13:57 i was only expressing an individual opinion. 18:14:10 certainly not trying to establish a consensus critique. :) 18:14:24 beekor: if you absolutely cant take emacs, there's vim and eclipse as well 18:14:31 when would i encounter that, p_l ? 18:14:41 beekor: When Emacs becomes your OS :) 18:15:07 okay. i'll keep an eye out. 18:15:16 (it gets annoyuing when you have to wait because it can't split into threads) 18:15:18 usually when you are editing a lot of buffers on a remote machine and autosave kicks in. 18:15:26 the only vim command i know is :q, and it has served me well. 18:15:38 lol 18:15:38 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93-40-115-226.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 18:15:38 beekor: nice! 18:15:44 lol 18:15:50 eclipse never worked for me with perl, so i've pretty much wrote it off. 18:15:59 fuck, no eclipse 18:16:07 I, for one, found CLIM very liberating and nice to work with. Even though mcclim is a constant source of confusion :) 18:16:14 well, emacs's the editor of choice for lisp, so u cant go wrong 18:16:18 by all the accounts I've seen, cusp is at least adequate. 18:16:34 e00f: Now that is a statement I can agree with. 18:16:44 Fade: I hate eclipse as a whole. Had it with it, it's even worse memory hog than FF 18:16:49 i remember being a new linux user and having to reboot because i couldn't get out of vim, and didn't have another computer to look up how. 18:16:53 beach: also a lot nicer, for my mind, than GTK and what not :) 18:17:03 yeah, definitely. 18:17:17 -!- e00f is now known as schme 18:17:29 i guess much of my consternation with clim is that clim apps look like refugees from 1989. 18:17:39 beekor: We call the act of setting a newbie in Vim "setting up a random number generator" 18:17:50 Fade: you have the freedom to change that. 18:18:02 yeah that makes sense. 18:18:08 beach: well yes, I should've been more expressive. In any case, for someone new to lisp, I don't think it is the correct approach. 18:18:20 Fade: well, actually, that'd be my motivation to use it 18:18:38 okay, i'm out. thanks for the advice, ya'll. 18:18:43 -!- dcrawford_ is now known as dcrawford 18:18:44 beekor: I used to be a quite extensive user of ViM, though (it certainly starts faster than emacs, even now) 18:18:44 well, #lisp is nothing if not a contentious bunch. :) 18:19:16 i use zile or jed in situations where i used vi in the early '90's 18:19:46 *p_l* uses vim and *ed* on around similar amount. 18:19:53 I think ed has been winning lately 18:20:01 man 18:20:29 I think i had an emacs clone on my amiga 1000 in the mid eighties. it's been emacs for a long time, for me. 18:20:31 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:20:58 Fade: Emacs requires a working screen... I had situation where I was without that, and there was no TECO available 18:21:07 -!- iStig [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:21:15 I probably used sed in such situations. 18:21:16 bah, fallback to ed :P 18:21:30 Fade: I needed to see the file :) 18:21:42 lp? 18:21:44 wtf i wasn't even born then :p 18:21:54 heh 18:21:56 how old are you folks 18:21:59 -!- deliana [n=deliana@147.210.246.189] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:22:10 ancient mariners, the lot of us. 18:22:26 dcrawford: plan 9 installation on Xen... and no, plan9 _system_ _console_ doesn't have any kind of terminal compatibility :D 18:22:37 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-0377a1a6515a8e43] has joined #lisp 18:23:26 plan9 but no acme? for shame. 18:23:33 ok I have a few questions 18:23:46 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:23:48 Fade: try running Acme without _any_ graphics 18:23:50 1: IS LISP/CLISP compilable? and if so how? 18:24:14 I want to have th esimplest hello world with a function main and make that run. 18:24:15 common lisp is both compilable and these days almost always compiled 18:24:17 the whole point of plan9 is to export such functionality to a host that has the capability. :) 18:24:22 (I'm a C programmer if that counts) 18:24:24 ArchGh0ul: Most common lisp implementation are compiled, some are compile only (i.e. they have no evaluator, everything gets compiled in flight) 18:24:36 cool 18:24:37 <_death> 1: YES. READ Lisp IN SMALL PIECES 18:24:50 Is there not some FAQ about generating binaries? 18:25:01 Fade: It was system install. No network (what do you think I was using ed for? xD) 18:25:05 prolly is but I just started so I though I ask instead of looking 18:25:12 =) 18:25:18 -!- schme [n=f00f@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:25:29 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:25:35 minion: tell ArchGh0ul about that-dead-sexy-book 18:25:36 ArchGh0ul: have a look at that-dead-sexy-book: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 18:26:00 ok clx won't install :( 18:26:08 droped me to the sbcl debugger 18:26:30 ArchGh0ul: choose the continue restart. 18:26:37 I use ArchLinux and teh only place I found it was aur(wich means it autocompiles from source) so debugging will be a b**ch 18:26:37 it usually works anyway. 18:26:48 Hmm, KPAX sounds kinda interesting. A web application framework, wish it was still under development, heh. 18:26:54 AllNight^ [n=nobody@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:26:55 ArchGh0ul: get clbuild 18:27:01 clbuild is the way 18:27:15 for now at least. 18:27:18 minion: clbuild 18:27:19 clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 18:27:28 it even worked with CCL for me (SBCL crashes !?) 18:27:34 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:47 <_death> ArchGh0ul: since you're using sbcl, try the following: write a small function (say fib or fac) and see the result of evaluating (disassemble #'ze-function) 18:28:02 you lost me 18:28:31 hm..my package manager said it's installed now (clx) 18:28:37 any simple way to test? 18:28:44 I'ma just open that helloworld 18:29:24 Loaded inside emacs(slime + sbcl) 18:29:36 how do I run? Just c+x c+e ? 18:30:14 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:30:31 -!- postamar [n=postamar@206-248-181-44.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:31:09 -!- abentspoon [n=mfivecoa@pal-163-097.itap.purdue.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:31:20 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 18:32:04 kjfletch [n=kjfletch@94-170-16-78.cable.ubr13.newc.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:32:11 postamar [n=postamar@206-248-181-44.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:32 SB-INT:SIMPLE-READER-PACKAGE-ERROR at 90 (line 2, column 36) on #: 18:33:35 package "XLIB" not found 18:33:37 :( 18:33:55 did you do something like (require :clx) 18:34:29 do that where? 18:34:37 ArchGh0ul: in REPL 18:34:39 at the Lisp REPL 18:34:41 it'sjust some hello world I found 18:34:57 what is REPL? keep in mind I am REALLY new to lisp 18:35:06 Read-Eval-Print-Loop 18:35:12 ArchGh0ul: I think you'd be better off starting with PCL 18:35:18 ArchGh0ul: You need to run your Lisp system and load things into it if you want to run them. 18:35:38 *beach* agrees with dlowe 18:36:06 *dcrawford* points ^ at the link to the free online book 18:36:13 I just started emacs and started slime afterwards 18:36:14 hi ArchGh0ul 18:36:17 :) 18:36:20 minion: tell ArchGh0ul about that dead-sexy-book 18:36:20 hey 18:36:21 ArchGh0ul: i don't know what you're referring to 18:36:23 welcome to lisp :) 18:36:34 thank you :) 18:36:34 minion: tell ArchGh0ul about that-dead-sexy-book 18:36:35 ArchGh0ul: please see that-dead-sexy-book: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 18:36:49 on that now 18:36:58 can it be downloaded for offline browsing? 18:37:04 well I'll just see :) 18:37:05 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:37:17 well, you can buy it too :P 18:37:20 ArchGh0ul: even better, you can buy it already downloaded, bound and printed! 18:37:40 I'm in romania..doubt it will come cheap :) 18:37:41 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 18:37:46 ArchGh0ul: (that said, there is a pdf avaiable somewhere, and wget -r can work miracles) 18:37:50 abentspoon [n=mfivecoa@pal-163-097.itap.purdue.edu] has joined #lisp 18:38:13 cool 18:38:13 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 18:38:14 wget --mirror :) 18:38:26 the miracle of wget *smiles* 18:38:42 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 18:38:53 bonus points, download all of PCL from the site using drakma :) 18:39:02 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 18:39:10 drewc: there's a dependency cycle there... 18:39:41 asdf laughs at dependency cycles 18:39:44 dlowe: it's very zen, like the definition of recursion. 18:39:45 dlowe: that's why it's a bonus .. cycles are not necessarily bugs 18:40:01 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 18:40:02 wget -nH -r -np -k -p http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book xD 18:40:12 oh, and -np 18:40:18 ah, added it already 18:41:03 i am still not used to the readout of 'top' on multi-core boxes. 18:41:23 how can a process use 100% and there still be 50% left? :) 18:41:25 drewc, tried htop? 18:41:38 tic: negative, googleing 18:41:38 drewc:hit the 1 key 18:41:43 I never understand what it means, except that when I hit '1', it switches to a nice view with all all the CPUs 18:41:53 drewc: now get used to load average :P 18:41:53 *dlowe* has tried htop and still prefers top 18:42:17 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:42:24 the non-insane keys, the coloring and the real-time cpu bar is nice. 18:43:28 htop looks neat .. 18:43:34 but '1' in top FTW! 18:43:59 people still use top? 18:44:00 :p 18:44:11 once you've hit 1 you can save that configuration for future runs. 18:44:12 The only keys I use in top are 1, M, and q, all of which seem pretty sane 18:44:23 I use < all the time 18:44:40 but you'll have to hit '?' to find out; i can't remember it. 18:45:44 Is there a "hierarchical folders" type widget available in ltk? 18:45:59 I just have a script that gets the info I need non stop 18:46:23 cpu scalling, temperature, free space and date/time is all I need 18:47:00 mooglenorph: you are aware that ltk just speaks to Tk? So the better place to look for that info is probably the Tk docs :) 18:47:01 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:48:04 lgtk looks like an option, but my entire life is skinned by QT. :P 18:48:18 jocke_ [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has joined #lisp 18:48:24 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.112.5] has joined #lisp 18:48:33 heow [n=user@colo-69-31-43-106.pilosoft.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:43 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44a8b4.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:50:17 qt is fairly better imho 18:50:33 -!- postamar [n=postamar@206-248-181-44.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:51:27 calling c++ libs from cl is problematic. 18:52:13 postamar [n=postamar@206-248-181-44.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:16 yep, but it's metainformation provides an interesting path to go: http://lisp-cffi-qt4.sourceforge.net/doc.html 18:52:47 too bad that not the whole qt library provides such metainformation, but they keep improving afaik 18:53:25 have you worked with qt from lisp? 18:53:26 the GTK people are building a C/FFI-friendly interface; _8david had a link some time ago. 18:53:34 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:08 Fade: no, i'm just a lisp newbie :) 18:54:29 but i've worked with qt quite a lot 18:54:38 pkhuong: Wasn't GTK already a more FFI friendly? :D 18:54:46 lgtk has swig generated bindings 18:54:58 erh, KDE. 18:55:06 -!- heow [n=user@colo-69-31-43-106.pilosoft.com] has left #lisp 18:55:21 p_l: GTK is C, so easier to bind to 18:55:22 qt is not exactly written in C++ either. 18:55:31 one thing i don't really understand is why is difficult to bind c++ libraries 18:55:33 but it isn't actually particularly multiplatform 18:55:41 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:55:53 abeaumont: it's hard even in C++ 18:55:54 i mean, they have bindings for other languages like python, ruby, etc. 18:56:02 abeaumont: not quite. 18:56:05 abeaumont: because all these other languages have a C interface. 18:56:07 -!- deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:56:12 *rsynnott* was wondering about the possibility of having a QT lib which actually generated appropriate C bindings itself 18:56:14 abeaumont: also, more people to work on 18:56:25 rsynnott: it existed once, I think 18:56:31 Qt C bindings 18:56:37 there's some evidence tht swig could support such a path to qt for lisp. 18:56:52 (I mean a lisp one which generates C bindings) 18:57:02 i mean, there're qt and kde bindings generated from C++ (e.g. with swig) for python, ruby, etc. 18:57:04 Fade: it does, but you need some work to do that, as SWIG is not a full C++ parser 18:57:15 *Fade* nods 18:57:30 Ok I got PCL :) 18:57:33 it's a shame that there's no multi-impl java FFI 18:57:35 Time to get crackin' 18:57:36 abeaumont: Pythin uses SIP, Ruby and the rest use a weird C++ library that uses introspection 18:57:50 *that provides runtime introspection 18:57:57 abeaumont: try and *link* to C++ once. That's already hard enough, and then you have overloading, default arguments, calling virtual functions, virtual inheritance, exceptions, destructors, templates, ... 18:58:00 java has decent GUI toolkits 18:58:10 rsynnott: and buggy X11 implementation 18:58:15 abeaumont: are you sure those qt binding are created with SWIG? 18:58:15 exceptions are particularly problematic, I think 18:58:19 http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/427 18:58:23 pretty sure they're not. 18:58:34 And the ever lovely libraries that use inheritance for parameterisation. 18:58:41 has someone got hunchentoot working with ccl? 18:58:50 guaqua: yep; it just worked for me 18:59:02 guaqua: yeah 18:59:02 (admittedly about two years ago, back when it was openmcl) 18:59:16 i just loaded it from my clbuild instance. 18:59:21 what trouble are you having? 18:59:24 rsynnott: and it was TBNL? :) 18:59:42 it was just about hunchentoot two years ago, I think 18:59:49 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:59:56 though I did use tbnl previously, on cmucl 19:00:00 rsynnott: a sec 19:00:01 (of all things) 19:00:27 the server I had at the time refused to run linux 2.6.x, which sbcl depends on 19:00:32 does ITA still deploy on cmucl? 19:00:53 drewc: none of them use SWIG afaik 19:01:46 p_l: that's what i thought. 19:01:54 There's SMOKE, but it's... weird 19:02:12 drewc: sorry, i confused swig with smoke 19:02:19 guaqua pasted "ccl hunchentoot threading error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76912 19:02:24 abeaumont: SMOKE is very weird library 19:02:30 Fade: AFAIK (from publically available information, nothing covered by NDA i swear), no, SBCL for QPX and CCL for QRES. 19:02:42 oh, tk has a "treeview," which is exactly what I want. fantastic. thanks/ 19:02:50 drewc: *nod* 19:03:06 abeaumont: and it's still C++, so you have to write your binding to that (no "extern C") 19:03:29 rsynnott: there's not much to grasp. i'm quite a newbie when it comes to lisp (and lisp threading) 19:03:50 guaqua: are you on osx/ppc? 19:03:54 Ogedei [n=user@echelon.ext.c-base.org] has joined #lisp 19:03:54 i wonder if my ccl installation has threads 19:04:00 tcl 19:04:06 err, disregard 19:04:17 Fade: nope. linux x86_64 19:04:35 abeaumont: SMOKE is indeed a different beast. 19:04:39 i only use ccl on osx/ppc where sbcl doesn't thread. 19:04:43 guaqua: hmm, that's a weird one 19:04:52 hunchentoot requires threading. 19:04:54 you're not running from slime? 19:05:07 nope 19:05:13 (ccl's debugger without slime is a bit of a pain) 19:05:19 just bare repl from clbuild 19:05:19 oh yeah... 19:05:27 Fade: ccl should have it on linux x86_64, though 19:05:27 what's on the *features* list? 19:05:37 well, according to rdale it's not harder to write bindings for C++ than for C... I guess i should go and ask him to prove it ;) 19:06:00 abeaumont: Only if it's all "extern C" :) 19:06:03 guaqua annotated #76912 "*features*" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76912#1 19:06:12 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-099-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:22 once I get finished with my current bout of web dev crap, I'm hoping to get some time to look at qt from lisp. 19:06:25 didn't realize that noe 19:07:08 there's all sorts of threading stuff present 19:07:09 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 19:07:14 ok component CLX not found even though I have it installed (Trying to compile stumpwm) 19:07:30 ArchGh0ul: Just get clbuild :-) 19:07:35 *_8david* has his own Qt bindings for Lisp, will have to compare against lisp-cffi-qt4 at some point 19:07:48 _8david, ooh? 19:07:55 We need fully working Qt4.5 bindings! 19:08:04 that would make me happy 19:08:07 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:08:12 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:24 or McCLIM working everywhere without cryptic problems scaring newbies :P 19:08:27 what precisely are the licensing implications, I wonder? 19:08:30 oh nvm archlinux wiki has a step by step instruction set 19:08:35 qt is lgpl now 19:08:38 rsynnott: 4.5 is LGPL 19:08:39 qt is available lgpl now 19:08:40 Qt4.5 is lgpl 19:08:44 (given that qt4 libs probably in principle have to fall under GPL) 19:08:48 *echo echo echo& 19:08:49 so lgpl /w franz preamble might work. 19:09:03 Fade: you don't need it 19:09:07 Fade: as it's an external library, that's probably not a problem 19:09:19 what's the difference between cl-gtk and ltk? 19:09:27 ianal 19:09:31 but anything written for qt4 presumably does have to fall under gpl, because of the absense of the linking exception 19:09:51 ltk uses the tk widget kit, and cl-gtk uses the gimp toolkit. 19:09:55 I wonder can a qt4 lib be modified to suit 4.5 and relicensed as something more sensible? 19:10:00 rsynnott: yes 19:10:14 Fade: oh, gtk doesn't actually use tk? 19:10:18 rsynnott: AFAIK they are nearly binary compatible 19:10:19 no 19:10:23 Fade: ok 19:10:25 gtk is a separate thing. 19:10:27 rullie: O_O 19:10:32 i got confused there 19:10:35 -!- postamar [n=postamar@206-248-181-44.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:10:36 <_8david> the point of the LGPL is that it *doesn't* carry over to the Lisp code that links dynamically to it. So lisp bindings to Qt can actually be under a BSD-syle license. 19:10:45 fwiw, tk is the toolkit that gives you that fantastic retro late eighties look. :) 19:10:47 p_l: they should be compatible (without _nearly) 19:11:00 _8david: yep, but OLD bindings would have had to comply with GPL 19:11:03 abeaumont: they failed compilation on my machine :P 19:11:17 _8david: feel like releasing your work? :) 19:11:19 i see what you mean 19:11:21 Fade, rsynnott: so no idea? 19:11:33 can I just ask one question? how do I make clx load? from the source file itself or my .emacs...or where? 19:11:39 Fade: indeed! On X11, it feels rather like an old Sun thing, on macos it is just bizarre 19:11:46 that seems to be my only problem for now 19:11:50 p_l: then you're machine is not binary compatible ;) 19:11:51 guaqua: not off hand 19:11:55 (menu items are pushbuttons with dropdown lists, etc) 19:12:16 _8david: but first run them with Qt4.5, we don't want GPL virus, nee? 19:12:23 guaqua: you might get a more useful message if running via slime 19:12:26 rsynnott: Tk has cool look! 19:12:29 ArchGh0ul: if it's properly installed, (require :clx) 19:12:32 Fade: retro is cool now .. you watch.. the next OSX will probably look like Motif :) 19:12:41 buh 19:12:42 rsynnott: only Xlib beat Tk/Motif look :D 19:12:56 athena widgets 4ever 19:13:03 rsynnott: working on it. i don't seem to have tramp installed by default, so this gets more complicated... 19:13:42 Actually, I remember seeing quite pricy apps use static linking and motif/tk look on win32... 19:13:50 (they came with relinker) 19:14:07 at least so it looked from the "setup" utility... 19:14:24 is lispworks still motif-ish on Linux? 19:14:52 *p_l* wouldn't care about motifish look, as long as it worked _completely_ without suprises 19:14:56 <_8david> okay, looking at lisp-cffi-qt4 source code, I have no idea what it does, but it seems to take an approach different from mine 19:14:56 ArchGh0ul: make sure the path to the directory containing clx.asd is on the asdf:*central-registry* list 19:15:04 and then do (require 'clx) 19:15:12 _8david: afaik it was done with SWIG 19:15:21 actually, tk 8.5 doesn't look all that bad anymore, if you take some care 19:15:36 or from slime , load-systemclx 19:15:41 19:15:48 K trying 19:15:59 argh, ccl dies with slime 19:16:03 memory... 19:16:12 Ogedei: I like the old look, although unix style of many windows starts to break down under xmonad... 19:16:17 <_8david> Fade: I'll have some free time next week to work on this. I guess you can expect a release sometime around ILC. 19:16:24 _8david: it makes use of Qt objects' metainformation 19:16:26 if it's not on the central registry, do (push #P"/path/to/the/clx.asd" asdf:*central-registry*) 19:16:40 _8david: that'd be fantastic. 19:16:55 oh speaking of which, what does that #P do 19:16:56 and then the (require 'clx) should work. 19:16:59 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:15 clhs pathname 19:17:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_pn.htm 19:17:21 rullie: it's a reader macro for paths (so that it gets automatically conversed to pathname) 19:17:56 bbiab 19:18:05 so it's equivalent with (pathname "blah") ? 19:18:26 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:18:31 EVIL, EVIL pathnames 19:19:24 <_8david> abeaumont: I guess so (would be hard not to), I just don't entirely understand how it does it. 19:19:31 <_8david> For my bindings, I'm using SMOKE, so I'm getting the metainformation handed on a silver platter. 19:20:11 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [] 19:20:29 googlefu found: http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Languages/Smoke 19:20:38 so it wraps around kde frameworks too? 19:22:07 dcrawford: yeah 19:22:13 apparently ltk doesn't support the treebox widget. what is the easiest way for me to get something like http://www.tkdocs.com/tutorial/tree.html <-- that with CL? 19:22:25 mooglenorph: ltk passes commands to tk 19:22:34 _8david: how are you handling the C++ interface? 19:22:37 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:22:45 rsynnott: there's only one class to handle 19:23:51 p_l: there's no binding for it in ltk, though, I'd need to write one. 19:23:51 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:24:14 <_8david> dcrawford: yeah. I'm currently working based on smoke 1, because that's what the distros ship as read-to-use binaries. 19:24:15 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 19:24:18 <_8david> But an upgrade to smoke 2 shouldn't be hard, and then you'd also get KDE/webkit/..., I think. 19:24:19 If there isn't any easier way to get some widget toolkit running that will give me a treeview type thing, I'll do that. 19:25:28 rpg [n=rpg@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:53 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:05 _8david: webkit is provided by qt4.5 not kde 19:26:28 <_8david> rsynnott: as p_l says. The extern "C" { ...} wrapper code needed to interface to smoke from cffi is *tiny*. Real tiny. 19:26:50 -!- ArchGh0ul [n=goblin@89.136.174.25] has left #lisp 19:27:01 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 19:27:18 -!- AllNight^ is now known as AllNight^afk 19:27:25 ah, I see 19:27:28 very nice 19:27:38 you should definitely release that :) 19:27:42 so a sane qt wrapper is now likely vs unlikely? happydance 19:29:11 and... mcclim back-end? 19:29:31 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31:16 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 19:32:58 that's indeed the best dev related news I've heard this year. 19:33:21 I have a whole project full of python/kde code I'd like to replace. 19:35:11 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 19:35:58 *p_l* thinks of WPF McCLIM backend... :P 19:37:01 so is the propegation of clim through time related to inertia, or does it actually make things easier? 19:37:10 <_8david> mcclim backends get written because their authors want to learn mcclim, not because anyone would need them 19:37:17 lol 19:37:19 when I looked at it, i bounced off pretty hard. 19:38:22 Fade: there are some enticing ideas, although on the whole it isn't ahead of its time in the way it once was 19:38:32 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:38:33 (not surprising, given its age) 19:38:38 *nod* 19:39:20 *stassats* is waiting for CLIM-3 19:39:26 one of the things I'm interested in doing is a glade style interface builder for lisp/qt 19:39:49 <_8david> clim 3 is called duim, and removes all features that clim is known for 19:39:49 Invalid index 0: must be between 0 and -1. 19:40:10 I'd rather build interfaces in code than with a builder, given that I'll have to learn how to do it sooner or later anyway 19:40:12 <_8david> specbot: stupid specbot, no cookie 19:41:15 schme [n=schme@c-0f5fe353.732-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:41:19 hefner: I don't see these things as being mutually exclusive 19:41:47 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 19:41:48 maybe not, but I'm always looking for ways to shortcut around heavy infrastructure investments 19:41:48 it's nice to quickly get an idea down, even where you know how to structure the code. 19:42:54 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 19:43:51 _8david: it seems like smoke is the recommended way to bind to qt from other environments. 19:44:43 Fade: also nice to build an ui to show to a customer 19:44:49 quickly 19:44:52 aye 19:45:27 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:46:23 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:46:39 _8david, hey, it didn't segfault, that's pretty good by modern standards, you must admit.. 19:46:43 parenscript macros are not nestable? 19:47:33 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:48:11 I thought duim was a dylan thing. 19:53:03 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:48 <_8david> yeah. According to what he writes on cll about it, CLIM == Scott McKay's second attempt. DUIM == his third attempt. (Not sure what the first was.) 19:54:10 clim-1? 19:54:14 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:57:21 -!- abentspoon [n=mfivecoa@pal-163-097.itap.purdue.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:58:02 -!- cads__ [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:59:52 hmmm.... puchacz, where are you from originally? xD 20:00:14 p_l: from Poland 20:00:39 knew it xD 20:01:00 puchacz: gdzie siedzisz w UK? :) 20:01:34 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:01:36 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.112.5] has quit [] 20:01:41 'cz' in conjunction is a giveaway. :) 20:01:58 scrap my comment, I wrote an @ where I shouldn't have 20:02:24 wszedzie polakow. 20:02:33 yup :-) 20:03:41 Fade: in this case it might also mean a fan of SZD-50 , which are *everywhere* :P 20:04:30 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 20:04:31 and it also has successive S-Z consonants in its symbol 20:05:09 yeah, but SZD-50 are everywhere, with possible exception of Africa :) 20:05:36 -!- ___``Erik is now known as ``Erik 20:05:39 Dynamic Windows would be his first attempt, I guess. 20:06:10 morning 20:12:02 rukubites [n=user@d58-110-99-121.mas6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:12:25 How can I find out an object's metaclass? Can't find the function anywhere. :( 20:14:12 -!- rukubites [n=user@d58-110-99-121.mas6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 20:14:15 (class-of (class-of object))? 20:15:58 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:08 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:22:28 -!- nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit ["()"] 20:22:38 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-19-10.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 20:23:04 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:23:06 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:15 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 20:29:02 p0a [n=mirc@athedsl-4527109.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:29:14 "The last of these looks a little scary at first. The object my-point is an instance of the class named point; the class named point is itself an instance of the class named standard-class. We say that the class named standard-class is the metaclass (i.e. the class of the class) of my-point." 20:29:48 What is standard-class? This symbol doesn't seem to be used... 20:29:58 clhs standard-class 20:29:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_std_cl.htm 20:30:11 p0a: it's a class name. 20:30:35 does it begin to 'exist' at the first invocation of defclass? 20:31:06 abentspoon [n=mfivecoa@pal-163-097.itap.purdue.edu] has joined #lisp 20:31:20 it exists. There's some magic when you bootstrap the object system, but that's very probably irrelevant for you, at this point. 20:31:40 (find-class 'standard-class) 20:31:55 I'm reading that page and the page of defclass and taht's what I gather... 20:33:00 kerc [n=riise@65.84-49-151.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:34:33 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:01 jao [n=jao@207.Red-83-37-137.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:12 it says that every time defclass is called, if the class-name argument specifies the proper name of standard-class, provided that standard-class already exists, and then the class is redefined and it's instances/subclasses are updated 20:35:25 But it does not mention when standard-class begins to exist ... :( 20:35:37 you don't need to know 20:35:45 I can assume it exists? 20:35:54 is what you're saying? 20:36:07 what made you think it doesn't exists? 20:36:17 it's the default metaclass 20:36:27 thus standard 20:36:30 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:36:34 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:36:39 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:36:50 I tried to do something silly like (class-of 'standard-class) but it did not work 20:37:01 sure it doesn't 20:37:07 clhs class-of 20:37:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_clas_1.htm 20:37:29 it's a root class 20:37:29 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 20:37:31 p0a: standard-class is a class *name*, not a class. 20:37:55 pkhuong: what does this mean? 20:38:05 try (class-of (find-class 'standard-class)) 20:38:20 Aha! I get it 20:38:27 actually, (class-of 'standard-class) 20:38:27 # 20:38:37 standard-class is the name you can use in find-class... it doesn't mean that's the class 20:38:38 in ccl 20:38:43 is that right? 20:39:02 and the class-of standard-class is standard-class 20:39:06 (class-of (find-class 'standard-class)) 20:39:06 # 20:39:14 name is name, and object is object 20:39:20 p0a: 'standard-class is a symbol naming a class. Symbols are used in Lisp to name a lot of things; possibly even the same symbol different things at the same time. 20:39:22 that whole meta-circular funkiness 20:39:40 tk is awesome! 20:39:58 tcr: but what does it mean for the class itself to be a string? like standard-class 20:39:59 tcr: cue for funky german philosophy ;) 20:40:07 I will add a treeview binding for ltk. 20:40:26 p0a: what class do you think is a string? 20:41:02 pkhuong: that's not what I'm saying, I mean this text talks about standard-class as a name and as a class. What does it mean for standard-class to be a class? (by string I meant "standard-class") 20:41:11 ie string in the sense of a vector of values 20:41:25 it's the name of a symbol, but the symbol points to a value. that value is the class. 20:41:43 slash__ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 20:41:58 symbols are just symbolic names pointing to something. (not entirely true, you can attach props. to symbols, but pretend they're just naems) 20:41:58 /nicks slash_^ 20:42:03 -!- slash__ is now known as slash_^ 20:42:08 p0a: The class named standard-class is a class because every class is an instance a class, by definition. 20:42:10 p0a: A lot of functions (especially API-exported functions) take a designator for an object, rather than the object itself. For example, you can pass a symbol to FUNCALL which designates the function of the symbol-function slot of that symbol. 20:42:39 Yes you're right tcr 20:42:53 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-136-189.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:43:00 kuhzoo1 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:01 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit ["leaving"] 20:43:01 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:43:02 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-207.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:43:03 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:10 and pkhuong, I'm aware... So if I create a class named 'test, that class will be the test class, correct? 20:43:23 Why is it that the standard-class is not the standard-class, just a class which has this name? 20:43:28 or '|'test| 20:43:31 -!- maskd [i=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 20:43:36 maskd [i=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has joined #lisp 20:43:36 :P 20:44:06 p0a, it's class is itself 20:44:19 p0a: Conventionally, we write FOO to denote the Lisp symbol with the name "FOO" in textual communication. 20:44:22 p0a: no, the same thing happens when you create a new class. It's just that both humans and CL often accept class designators for convenience reasons. 20:44:25 -!- slash_^ is now known as slash_ 20:44:48 tcr: you mean all uppercase for symbols? 20:44:53 yes 20:45:02 p0a: Symbols are upcased by the default by the reader 20:45:10 that's where the convention comes from 20:45:18 Alright if that's how it is, I'll try to keep it at that ;-) 20:45:20 It's extremely important to not confuse a thing and that thing's name. p0a is a sequence of three characters; you're not. 20:45:24 and it's why stuff printed out at the REPL is upcase, too. 20:45:28 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:46:01 -!- drewc is now known as drewc2 20:46:42 -!- drewc2 is now known as drewc 20:46:44 ah I get it 20:46:52 just now it happened 20:47:02 :) 20:47:31 alright thanks guys :-). The sense I made of it is that class-of takes as argument the class, while find-class takes the name of the class. 20:48:10 p0a: class-of takes as argument an arbitrary object. You wanted the class of the class named STANDARD-CLASS, not the class of the name (symbol) STANDARD-CLASS. 20:48:24 clhs find-class 20:48:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_find_c.htm 20:48:30 class-of needs the actual value to find out the value of it, while find-class _must_ have the name of the class (or you'd already have the class, right?) 20:49:03 p0a: Yes, it's a common meme. For example, there's also FIND-PACKAGE which takes a package designator 20:49:09 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-136-189.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:49:23 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D9D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:24 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D9D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:49:24 yes 20:49:25 so symbols are designators to objects 20:49:31 misdirect 20:49:38 but how is it mentioned in the documentation that something is a designator or an object? 20:49:45 ie the hyperspec 20:49:56 it says so. 20:50:14 "find-class symbol" 20:50:22 "class-of object" 20:50:28 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-128-49.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 20:50:41 p0a: The Arguments and Values section mentions what types a function expects as parameters and what types of values it returns. 20:51:00 tcr: great I'll check it out now 20:51:02 class-of has the line: "Returns the class of which the object is a direct instance." 20:51:08 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-156-155.vologda.ru] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:51:13 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 20:51:35 -!- rpg [n=rpg@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has quit ["Leaving..."] 20:51:38 p0a: The types are linked to glossary entries with the description of the types, or what the respective designators consist of 20:52:14 indeed :) 20:52:22 for more fun, see type-of 20:54:17 rpg [n=rpg@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has joined #lisp 20:54:40 p0a: Notice that the hyperspec is a reference, it's overly detailed. It's not that suited to take up stuff on a conceptional level. 20:55:07 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:55:12 It's a standard document, actually. Even more detailed than a reference. 20:57:45 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:58:28 <_8david> tcr: is there slime code to go along with the named readtables in editor-hints? 20:58:39 -!- vinc456 [n=user@unaffiliated/vinc456] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:59:16 <_8david> (Having to type C-c C-k instead of C-c C-c because of the missing readtable is getting old.) 21:01:07 _8david: Somewhat. http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/darcs/editor-hints/named-readtables/ hooks into swank::*readtable-alist*, this does not give per-file granularity but per per-package granularity. 21:01:20 rukubites [n=user@d58-110-99-121.mas6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:01:35 How do I find a class's metaclass? 21:02:49 -!- kjfletch [n=kjfletch@94-170-16-78.cable.ubr13.newc.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:03:24 are you a bot? 21:03:35 we just had that question a bit ago :) 21:04:08 (class-of (class-of #) 21:04:35 (class-of (class-of (find-class 'CLASS-NAME)) 21:04:39 Sorry, yes that was me before, but I disconnected. 21:04:52 Of course! Answer is obvious. 21:05:10 if you want to get to the second metalevel, then... well... go to the second metalevel... :) 21:05:18 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@y192025.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:05:18 <_8david> oh, per-package is even better 21:05:24 minion: tell rukubites about logs 21:05:24 rukubites: please look at logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 21:05:38 rukubites, for the listing of the discussion 21:06:03 <_8david> tcr: but how does that darcs relate to the svn on common-lisp.net? 21:06:08 dcrawford: Ahhh okay. I just wanted something I could build a test from. 21:06:33 c|mell [n=cmell@x250014.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:07:05 _8david: I won't continue using the svn repository. 21:07:39 -!- jocke_ [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has quit ["Lämnar"] 21:07:50 I settled on (typep (find-class 'foo-class) 'meta-class). Simple enough. 21:08:03 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:14 _8david: per-package is nice, but it's totally slime-specific. And you cannot get that behaviour in remotely semi-portable code. So it'll be per-file in the end. (So better place in-readtable forms in your file now, and you upgrade will hopefully be smooth.) 21:08:17 dys [n=andreas@p5B31468E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:12 asn [n=fafa@gentoo/developer/asn] has joined #lisp 21:09:46 _8david: cl-syntax-sugar has utils to help with that, see asdf-integration and swank-integration 21:10:15 basically sets up swank:*r-a*, and installs asdf hooks 21:10:40 mjf [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 21:12:59 http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/3342/isnichwahrdecablessw4.jpg 21:14:01 who needs A/C when you have cable :) 21:14:16 indeed :) 21:14:24 Fade, who reads reddit??? 21:14:37 hrmn? 21:14:45 ...... wtf 21:14:46 I guess it is doing the social news sites. 21:15:13 i'm lost. 21:15:23 ... was that... console? 21:16:02 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:16:43 that looks... terrifying 21:17:20 Fade: the image you pasted was on the front page of www.reddit.com. 21:17:42 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 21:17:50 ah. a friend of mine pasted it to me from another channel. 21:17:58 I thought it came from nanog. 21:18:01 where the fuck it was 21:18:09 that's an old image 21:18:35 anyway, back to programming sql in lisp. 21:18:42 -!- rukubites [n=user@d58-110-99-121.mas6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:19:02 -!- Ogedei [n=user@echelon.ext.c-base.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:19:10 it's still horrible, especially after tracking down an unmarked fiber cable in expensive datacenter 21:20:02 dcrawford: that was _not_ me (rukubites) 21:21:18 so reddit is an actual site, huh? I thought it was a new tutorial meme. :) 21:21:36 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:21:46 it's a website made in lisp but other than that it's not that interesting 21:21:59 I was being ironic. 21:22:20 oh well 21:22:30 in python, actually 21:22:31 'cause afaik, it isn't actually made in lisp. they switched it to python which caused fusilades of indignation among our people. 21:22:57 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:23:04 I see 21:23:16 metahumour. ;) 21:24:32 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:26:31 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:26:40 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:26:51 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-0377a1a6515a8e43] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:26:52 *rsynnott* assumes that within the year the new mandatory getting-started tutorial will be a twitter clone 21:27:16 i'm not sure that twitter is substantial enough to make a good tutorial. 21:27:19 is there a cl library for google web services, or will I have to roll my own? 21:27:23 rsynnott: let's hope it becomes something like: how to build skynet in 12 minutes... 21:27:26 i've always wondered why they have such stability issues. 21:27:36 Fade: 'good' is nothing to do with it 21:27:47 heh 21:27:50 the blog thing that was standard a few years ago wasn't a good tutorial 21:28:09 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:12 the point is that all web tutorials written at a certain point in time should be shoddy implementations of SOMETHING 21:28:44 s/implementations.*// ;) 21:29:01 pkhuong: Xach mentioned on a recent blog post that he's got some sort of implementation of such a thing 21:29:02 sounds like a corollary to greenspun's tenth rule. 21:29:20 xach was working on the amazone S3 thing, no? 21:29:29 s/zone/zon 21:29:39 that too 21:29:44 he likes webservices, apparently 21:29:46 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:29:58 http://xach.livejournal.com/212899.html 21:29:59 s/\/zon/\/zon\/ 21:30:01 buggarage [n=user@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:30:02 i'm all for it; i'm getting roped into a lot of that these days. 21:30:38 *dcrawford* still wrong .. would match \zone .... 21:30:49 *dcrawford* match /zone 21:31:18 as long as it's not SOAP.... 21:31:21 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:31:22 rsynnott: the authentication part is fairly easy with DRAKMA. It's the rest of the XML description that's painful. I'll just keep it hacky with CXML-XMLS. 21:31:30 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:31:49 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:06 when I was messing with it a while back I used the python impl as a guide 21:32:31 pkhuong: and then wish for it to be document/message model, not the rpc one... 21:32:35 has anyone here used beautifulsoup html parsing library on python? 21:32:47 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-50.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:32:49 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:56 guaqua: yep 21:33:00 p_l: I only have to deal with a nice REST interface. 21:33:22 that's what i'm mostly missing from python right now...closure-html can parse, but the interface it provides doesn't come through like beautifulsoup 21:33:37 p_l: or wrapped document/message! 21:33:41 SOAP is fun! 21:34:10 gack 21:34:11 (wrapped document/message exists because the SOAPAction thing, while widely used in document/message impls, insn't actually defined or standardised) 21:34:25 rsynnott: I was laughing ruefully at your blog post on SOAP the other day. 21:34:28 Fade: can you recommend something similar from CL? 21:34:30 I concurr. 21:34:46 Fade: the other one I link to is considerably better 21:34:48 or atleast funnier 21:34:55 indeed 21:35:08 or something that can be used as a relatively light parser for extracting data from html pages? 21:35:15 rsynnott: still, I hoped it's better than "oh I will just use this groveler to make xsd and wsdl from our classes and export those new nice shiny interfaces to public" java thinking style... 21:35:25 p_l: which? 21:35:33 guaqua: not off hand. 21:35:37 there may not be an analogue 21:35:42 wmaikon [n=wmaikon@189.73.75.110] has joined #lisp 21:35:49 there are two approaches; WSDL-first and classes-first 21:35:55 both are horrible and broken 21:35:57 neither of them work 21:36:03 ^5 21:36:25 (WSDL-first is, IMO, marginally better in that it occasionally sort of works) 21:36:28 -!- buggarage [n=user@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:36:51 Fade: at least when someone writes the definition first, it removes a lot of braindamage. it applies basically to all that "autogenerated from classes" xml 21:37:10 -!- AllNight^afk is now known as EnglishGent 21:37:15 even when you get it to work with one set of tools, it breaks in communion with others. 21:37:19 -!- EnglishGent is now known as AllNight 21:37:45 the introduction of SOAP to an architecture should be a flashing signpost on the road to project failure. 21:37:48 -!- p0a [n=mirc@athedsl-4527109.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 21:38:31 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-19-10.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:38:57 guaqua: a beautiful soup style utility would be useful 21:39:46 doesn't cxml do BS-style parsing? 21:39:49 although if you cook one, try to make it less brittle. 21:40:01 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483E75A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:27 i'll have to look into its api and try to distinguish the good parts from the bad 21:41:29 the dependencies are a problem, too 21:42:02 cxml, when i tried it, couldn't handle invalid xml well enough 21:42:25 wait until you start throwing html at a parser. :P 21:42:55 especially since valid HTML is not valid XML... :P 21:43:57 yeah :) 21:44:26 *p_l* surprised quite a lot of people with that 21:44:33 oh? 21:44:45 but all are valid subsets of SGML! 21:44:48 well, valid XHTML is, isn't it? 21:44:57 rsynnott, yeah, but HTML isn't XHTML 21:44:59

this
seems
OK
21:45:03 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-46-48.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 21:45:37 you can take a lot of smug out of some web2.0 weenies by pointing to them that
is illegal in HTML and that no, you shall not make XHTML1.1 Strict unless you want to fuckup >50% of browsers 21:45:40 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0CAB3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:44 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has joined #lisp 21:45:45 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:46:09 heh 21:46:22 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:52 -!- rpg [n=rpg@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has quit [] 21:47:12 Is it because of that
that html is not valid xml, or is there more to it? 21:48:03 Basically, you don't close tags in HTML with /> 21:48:14 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:48:32 oh right 21:48:36 some of them might be closed with that, but I haven't read HTML's spec in long time 21:48:56 also, there's some issue with capitalisation, I think 21:48:57
may not be legal html, but it works in every browser. What *doesn't* work is 21:49:17 because br is a self-closing tag in html, it doesn't matter that you put in an extra "/" attribute 21:49:30 "a" isn't a self-closing tag, so it stays open if you do that. 21:49:51 XHTML 1.1 Transitional! 21:49:53 I reported that bug to w3c (their website is chock *full* of that particular error) but they don't seem to care 21:52:54 you shall be liberal in what you accept .... :/ 21:53:55 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 21:53:56 hm, actually they did at least fix it on their xhtml spec page. :) 21:54:04 so liberal as to approach ridiculousness 21:54:05 rukubites [n=user@d58-110-99-121.mas6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:54:07 tgresql 21:54:11 -!- rukubites [n=user@d58-110-99-121.mas6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has left #lisp 21:54:51 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:55:06 I guess that's something: at least they don't contract the spec on its own page. :) 21:55:51 buggarage [n=user@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:58:01 heh, seems like the clojure people are drawing ahead of cl on vim integration 21:58:51 -!- flazz [n=franco@qubes.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:59:05 rsynnott: I think they have a much less emacs oriented crowd ;-) 21:59:32 clojure seems nice. quite a monoculture, though ;) 21:59:34 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:58 somewhat less, yes 22:00:13 though there is still far better emacs integration through a clojure version of swank 22:01:08 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D9D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:01:22 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:01:25 flazz [n=franco@qubes.org] has joined #lisp 22:02:03 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:14 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCDF74.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:37 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-128-49.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:07:39 -!- KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:08:39 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:08:51 *Gav8in* wavesj 22:08:57 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:09:34 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 22:10:28 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["leaving"] 22:11:30 *p_l* should start making his "corporate" webpage and remove the "temporary" virgin.jpg it mainly hosts now.... 22:12:10 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:40 Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-74-214.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:12:50 I like how you quote temporary. 22:13:02 eh, put temporary in quotes 22:13:24 tic: better yet, the file is far from sexual content 22:13:51 p_l, that's okay, it was the "oh, this is just a temporary hack/webpage/whatever" -- things are *never* temporary. :) 22:13:53 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:14:06 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:17 yes, but people who would click on it looking for pr0n would get a surprise xD 22:14:35 over time temporary and parmanent will have their definitions reversed :) 22:14:41 yeah 22:14:42 o_O 22:15:47 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 22:16:21 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-207.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 22:16:24 I could always put some nasty shellcode inside the jpeg, but i like that pic very much and show it to friends... 22:16:41 can I has URL plz? 22:17:10 http://plasek.rootnode.net/virgin.jpg 22:17:20 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-207.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 22:17:59 the other is interesting too 22:18:02 in b4 something is broken 22:19:28 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:19:59 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-74-214.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:19:59 at the moment the only sensible thing that goes on that account is hosting a mercurial repository for a java project 22:20:43 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:21:49 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-099-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:21:53 -!- buggarage [n=user@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:22:52 ok, how do I specify for weblocks to know that it's under /lisp not /? 22:23:37 buggarage [n=user@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:23:56 oh, it's one of those japanese cartoons where people show anger by, er, complete breakdown of faicial blood system, or something 22:23:56 ah, found 22:24:21 rsynnott: in this case, it's simply being drunk (notice the beer cans) 22:24:35 I love it for the emphasis on "got a fucking problem with it" 22:24:52 ah, so all emotional states are shown through hideous presumably fatal medical problem? :) 22:25:48 because that's what emotions are? 22:25:58 rsynnott: depends who is drawing :P (there are some artists who should add a bibliography at the end) 22:26:41 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:27:35 it's fun to use a 18+ manga as reference in AI talk :) 22:28:07 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:28:17 Reminds me of Britney Spear's Guide to Semiconductor Physics I used in school. http://britneyspears.ac/lasers.htm 22:30:12 p_l: possibly a bit obscure? 22:30:30 rsynnott: actually quite relevant and accepted by the professor :P 22:30:47 -!- baffg [n=htump@c-69-254-138-249.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:30:52 but Ghost in the Shell *is* exception :) 22:33:39 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:34:24 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 22:34:33 man, someone needs to get fired at apple for this new ipod shuffle 22:34:42 gonzojive [n=red@171.66.84.204] has joined #lisp 22:34:49 the one with no controls except on the headphones? 22:34:53 right 22:34:55 -!- gonzojive [n=red@171.66.84.204] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:01 meh, I can see the appeal; they're not forcing anyone to use it 22:35:14 shuffle was never a huge market for them anyway, I don't think 22:35:23 it has its place 22:35:31 mostly among those that use it during working out 22:35:51 I'm just frustrated 22:35:58 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:01 I said I'd buy an apple if they added a second mouse button 22:36:05 then what'd they go and do? 22:36:09 removed the one they had! 22:36:46 they have three mouse buttons now :) 22:36:52 well, sort of 22:37:14 josemanuel [n=josemanu@35.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:37:34 five button mice 22:37:55 (though if using a mouse with mbp, I prefer a microsoft one) 22:38:23 -!- buggarage [n=user@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:38:27 heh. I said I'd buy an apple if they actually had full PPC64 support in OS X... 22:38:40 and they got rid of the PPC :) 22:38:43 oh yeah, no doubt 22:38:51 that was the nail on the coffin for me 22:39:00 i'll consider when they get touchpoint 22:39:12 (though oddly leopard has better PPC64 support than tiger) 22:39:15 well, their MacPro line looks interesting... but meh, Xeons 22:39:23 exactly 22:39:24 and Apple tax 22:39:33 it's not high these days. 22:39:37 buggarage [n=user@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:39:38 VERY expensive due to using what are effectively server chips 22:39:41 (the Mac Pros) 22:39:50 nice machines, but I can't see myself buying one 22:39:50 you can't actually buy a Mac Pro equivalent from anyone else 22:40:02 even nowadays? 22:40:03 rsynnott, I was looking at the IBM 550's last n ight 22:40:07 *drools* 22:40:15 (I know they originally had special chipsets from Intel) 22:40:15 foom: Except Dell, HP, FSC, Lenovo and I think fucking everyone? 22:40:18 Beket [n=stathis@ppp206-128.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:40:21 8 core Power6 clocked at 4.2GHz 22:40:26 *drools some more* 22:40:45 p_l: workstation Xeon motherboards are thin on the ground 22:41:06 rsynnott: cause they are usually custom made for certain companies 22:41:10 rsynnott, just generally pretty trim 22:41:13 (as are cooling systems for Xeons which don't emulate a jet engine) 22:41:14 they just came out with new ones...Last I checked (last week) I couldn't find anyone else selling 8-core nehelems 22:41:23 (yet) 22:41:26 I'm sure they'll come soon 22:41:31 ah, they always get the new stuff first 22:41:45 foom: the server ones? 22:41:49 (when the original Mac Pro came out it had a Xeon which was completely unavailable elsewhere) 22:41:55 p_l: yep 22:42:18 ah, the one I've been hearing about certain peoples having as their workstations since two months ago xD 22:42:41 though in practice, really, who needs desktop two-socket xeons 22:42:43 -!- buggarage [n=user@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:42:49 massively overkill for just about everyone 22:42:53 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:43:04 no way 22:43:07 rsynnott: If I had money, I'd get SiCortex PDS... 72 cores? 22:43:09 double quadcore :) 22:43:56 buggarage [n=user@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:44:39 hmm, trying to use tree-view in cells-gtk 22:44:47 or rather mk-listbox 22:45:15 the funny thing is that I found some time ago that Pentium 4 3.8GHz had actually some core components running at 7.6GHz, otherwise it would be too slow... 22:45:17 I wish IBM would release a Power6 chip that works in an AMD Socket F mobo 22:45:23 .. I keep getting SB-SYS:MEMORY-FAULT-ERROR 22:45:40 p_l: yep, integer units were double-speed 22:45:52 voidengineer: it's no longer the days of EV6 when you could hax an Athlon mobo to run Alpha 22:46:06 you could do that? 22:46:14 voidengineer: theoretically yes. 22:46:21 they were electrically compatible 22:46:51 some EV6 workstations even used AMD760 chipset 22:47:31 Wait, 7.6GHz? Holy crap. 22:47:34 it's also quite possibly the reason why Athlon-MP was so hard to get right 22:47:57 SeveredCross: Intel planned to keep NetBurst till they reached 10GHz... 22:48:01 hmm 22:48:04 dv___ [n=dv@85-127-115-115.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:48:05 Wow. 22:48:23 well I know of at least one of the original Alpha developer is working over at AMD 22:48:28 so it doesn't suprise me 22:48:33 voidengineer: More like most of them :P 22:48:47 hehe, I was going to say 22:48:49 but wasn't sure 22:48:56 one of the main ones however is in intel, now working (back) on Itanium 3 22:49:08 -!- Guest64436 [n=deep@li61-146.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:49:25 (he got pulled out to make Core2 when AMD took intel without pants with K8) 22:49:46 lol 22:50:00 yeah, I still love my dualcore 1.8GHz opteron 22:50:00 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 22:50:08 they really do know there stuff 22:50:14 sure i7 pwns right now 22:50:16 *p_l* is waiting for 32nm stuff 22:50:21 poor, poor Netburst 22:50:25 was never a great success 22:50:33 it won the ghz race. 22:50:35 gonzojive [n=red@171.66.84.204] has joined #lisp 22:50:53 well, yes, but pretty much nothing else 22:51:03 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:51:04 (in any case, it was eventually beaten there by POWER6) 22:51:04 rsynnott: I got a celeron which after overclocking could take on many Pentium 4s of my friends... :P 22:51:05 but they won the ghz race!111 22:51:20 lol @ 111 22:51:27 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:51:28 Some of the newer Celerons are really impressive with MHz. 22:51:29 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 22:51:50 I think the Celeron 430 in my light server box can go up to something like 3 GHz with minor cooling upgrades. 22:52:12 *tic* fondly remembers his dual 300A-setup 22:52:17 SeveredCross: Tualatin core running at 1.5 GHz was quite a serious contender for many Pentium 4s :D 22:52:23 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:50 with some additional parts I could possibly make a 1.8GHz Tualatin box... 22:52:51 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-235-227.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 22:53:47 -!- gonzojive [n=red@171.66.84.204] has quit [Client Quit] 22:54:26 gonzojive [n=red@171.66.84.204] has joined #lisp 22:54:43 now, if AMDs new memory bus turns out to be XDR based... ^_^ 22:55:17 probably won't save them 22:56:26 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:46 rsynnott: well, we don't leave in ideal world 22:57:07 still, I recall Core 2 being introduced... 22:57:17 -!- gonzojive [n=red@171.66.84.204] has quit [Client Quit] 22:57:31 and actually being slower for my code 22:58:46 at least AMD pushed intel into actually making some research and progress 22:59:29 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:59:39 If we lived in an ideal world this x86 madness would die. 22:59:44 ;) 22:59:51 nah 22:59:56 schme: secondedeseconded! 22:59:59 .... 23:00:09 x86-64 is fine 23:00:29 Adamant: I want Alpha. Or MMIX :P 23:00:33 Adamant: It is an improvement, sure. 23:00:37 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 23:00:47 I would like for Alpha to still exist 23:00:53 Good going by HP to kill it off :S 23:01:08 schme: the initial decision and investment in killing was by Compaq 23:01:08 but at this point x86-64 would probably be caught up with it 23:02:09 in an ideal world I'd be running a 8 core Power6 box 23:02:23 I think MMIX is the inverse of Itanium 23:02:25 as for ISAs... we had this 100 locc game competition... and while I didn't start in the end, I did create a convoluted design that involved a lisp game engine running VLIW code from game file... 23:02:26 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-50.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:03:19 it's a software engineer's design than would be annoying for hardware type to implement 23:03:44 *p_l* is still thinking of finishing it and fitting under 500 lines for engines with graphics, sound and video 23:03:56 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:04:25 Adamant: I think hardware would like it too... it's simplistic after all (except for requiring quite a full FPU for complete hw support) 23:05:05 p_l: I'm not sure, I know barely any EE stuff and a smattering of VHDL 23:05:15 but there is a way to make some of instructions emulated! :D 23:05:26 Adamant: heh, me too :D 23:05:32 (except VHDL) 23:05:55 p_l: don't worry, I build "hello world" equivalent logics 23:06:44 I know Knuth is upset about the whole multicore future thing 23:06:52 Adamant: Why? 23:06:55 I love it 23:07:11 I love it even more when I'm playing with Erlang :D 23:07:19 p_l: he thinks the hardware engineers aren't doing their jobs by ensuring sequential performance 23:07:43 Adamant: Well, you can only parallelise x86 to a certain degree... 23:08:04 true 23:08:22 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 23:08:30 and then x86 doesn't like MP too 23:08:43 gonzojive [n=red@171.66.84.204] has joined #lisp 23:08:46 x86 is slowly being engineered into liking MP 23:08:50 -!- gonzojive [n=red@171.66.84.204] has quit [Client Quit] 23:09:16 probably in 5 years it will have all the necessary hardware to do POWER-grade virtualization isolation 23:09:39 gonzojive [n=red@171.66.84.204] has joined #lisp 23:10:25 Adamant: Still, if you have a 4x/6x non-i7 intel... don't let an app run over more than two cores that you know are in one die without breaking it into separate processes... 23:10:25 then everyone will be demanding that you can run your data center on netbooks or whatever and the cycle will start again :P 23:11:01 p_l: I usually use processes and not threads 23:11:05 p_l: Why not? 23:11:26 I mean, a Core 2 Quad would spend half of it's runtime trying to synchronise caches on shared bus while clogging memory access... 23:11:27 I only revert to threads if there's a legit performance issue 23:12:08 p_l: I run gnubg on my 4 cores here, with 4 threads. It gives me.. 4 times the speed compared to just 1. I can't see the negative of it? 23:12:09 -!- gonzojive [n=red@171.66.84.204] has quit [Client Quit] 23:12:17 processes are just cleaner in general if you're programming at the OS level 23:12:52 schme: It depends on your exact workload 23:13:02 p_l: My what what? 23:13:20 dunno about the workload, but it cranks all cores up to 100% for an hour or three. 23:13:21 gonzojive [n=red@171.66.84.204] has joined #lisp 23:13:32 schme: distribution of data in memory and accesses to it 23:13:37 -!- gonzojive [n=red@171.66.84.204] has quit [Client Quit] 23:13:41 just about exactly 4 times as fast as just one. 23:13:51 p_l: exactly. it depends on the data sets 23:14:13 schme: is most of your data immutable? 23:14:14 4/6 core pre-i7 chips had a bottleneck in case of cache sync across their two-core modules 23:14:21 So.. nothing at all wrong with letting an app run on more thna two cores on the same die. 23:14:31 Adamant: I have no idea, I have not written the software. 23:14:36 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:14:53 Adamant: I'd assume it is immutable. 23:14:55 schme: the thing is, 4/6 core were 2/3 separate dualcores on shared bus :D 23:15:15 schme: that would make the cache coherency thing less of a problem, I think 23:15:23 I could be wrong 23:15:29 p_l: So? It seems to work just splendid for me. 23:15:33 well 'cept the wait (: 23:15:54 Adamant: well, they wouldn't have to sync really :D 23:16:12 no writes, no cache invalidation 23:16:22 I do imagine the threads sync stuff. Would not make sense otherwise (: 23:16:32 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:16:33 either way it works really well. 23:16:57 But maybe one should buy one of those i7s 23:16:59 (: 23:17:18 *p_l* would like to have a better chip in his thinkpad 23:17:50 Hmmm.. 23:17:51 T5550 is one of the worst options I could end with 23:17:56 I'm very happy with my celeron in my thinkpad. 23:18:16 oh 23:18:18 pentium M even 23:18:20 well whatever. 23:18:28 It's all good. who needs a workhorse in a laptop, eh? (: 23:18:43 schme: I need fauking hvm 23:19:01 on the laptop? 23:19:04 my amd TL50 did it just fine 23:19:13 schme: I don't have desktop pc anymore 23:19:19 oh. 23:19:21 well go buy one (: 23:19:27 (not because I don't want one) 23:19:44 Pentium-M's were nice chips 23:20:05 it works for ssh-ing to the desktop for sure :) 23:20:26 schme: also, my only (completely owned by me, I mean) desktop that I could bring certainly doesn't run windows (except for NT4, but that's after firmware switch) 23:20:32 speaking of nice chips I ordered meself one of those 40 core intellasys evaluation boards. I can't wait to play with that baby :D 23:20:49 p_l: Well who needs windows? ;) 23:21:08 schme: it runs VMS6.1 and I don't have RAM to upgrade ;_; 23:21:18 and I actually need hvm for windows 23:21:21 sweet :) 23:21:37 you could.. maybe just install windows on the laptop? 23:21:53 schme: I have, but rebooting is pita 23:22:01 No need to reboot, just leave it running. 23:22:15 I think it does hibernation (: 23:22:23 schme: then no working (without surprises) SBCL/CCL for me 23:22:30 Oh. 23:22:39 well maybe run linux in vmware (: 23:22:43 and modifying disk content while windows is hibernated is a BAD IDEA 23:23:21 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-46-48.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:23:33 hmmm.. 23:23:38 It all seems a bit complicated. 23:23:46 it is too late in the night again :( 23:23:47 schme: too much overhead (with HVM I'd get HyperV to run linux) 23:24:10 good night #lisp :) 23:24:15 and without HVM I can't run 64bit windows vm 23:24:20 night schme 23:24:22 -!- dv___ [n=dv@85-127-115-115.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 23:24:52 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-155-159.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:25:13 buggarag` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-155-159.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:25:34 -!- buggarag` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-155-159.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:25:56 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-155-159.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:36 overdrive [n=user@client-86-0-99-51.nrth.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:44 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:29:27 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-155-159.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:30:10 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 23:32:06 buggarag` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-155-159.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:33:10 -!- buggarag` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-155-159.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:33:58 buggarag` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-155-159.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:34:05 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has quit ["dew on the telephone lines"] 23:35:07 -!- buggarage [n=user@xdsl-81-173-129-138.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:35:15 -!- buggarag` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-155-159.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:35:59 buggarage [n=user@xdsl-87-78-155-159.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:36:24 -!- manic12 [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:40:23 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 23:40:38 okay, anyone here running weblocks on CCL? 23:40:41 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has quit [] 23:42:37 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:45:28 *p_l* is going to test core-server now 23:46:53 it's buzzword-compatible :D 23:47:09 p_l: let me know if you get it running, I had some problems with it trying to run on sbcl 1.0.25 23:47:22 -!- AllNight is now known as EnglishGent^afk 23:48:43 I forgot that core-server depends on sbcl 23:48:50 (i.e. won't run) 23:49:47 My AI book will mostly focus on Data-mining. Outliers, Diagnosis, Regression and a couple of other generic problems. I really want to get into it. Can you guys recommend a book, or a couple of them? 23:50:04 s/book/course 23:50:46 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-235-227.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 23:51:07 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-235-227.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 23:51:24 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:54:54 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:56:45 -!- abentspoon [n=mfivecoa@pal-163-097.itap.purdue.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:56:55 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:46 nice, l-o-l also fails on ccl 23:58:12 *p_l* gets the feeling of "roll your own framework" now