00:00:15 lemonade` pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76790 00:00:19 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:02:05 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:15 josemanuel [n=josemanu@16.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 00:02:29 pkhuong: --^ 00:02:58 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@16.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 00:03:15 -!- milanj- [n=milan@79.101.169.246] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:03:27 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:03:34 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 00:06:00 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:07:29 *p_l* is playing with incremental allocation for SBCL 00:08:22 who uses limp here 00:09:20 p_l: with david litchblau's branch? 00:11:41 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:14:18 do I need to add something to ld's path? 00:14:40 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-253-162.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 00:15:21 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:15:54 rukubite` [n=user@d58-110-97-161.mas6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:20:09 -!- jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:21:31 -!- anryx [n=anryx@213.210.175.188.adsl.nextra.cz] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:22:04 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:23:12 -!- joga [i=joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:24:25 -!- timor [n=icke@port-87-234-97-28.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:24:44 pkhuong: with his memory-roundup.diff 00:25:31 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-156-172.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 00:27:07 joga [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 00:27:39 right now I'm still far away from finished make.sh :D 00:28:54 tritchey [n=tritchey@64.241.37.140] has joined #lisp 00:30:31 joha1 [n=johan@fw1.ngigroup.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:43 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["BB!"] 00:32:42 -!- rukubites [n=user@d58-110-123-24.sbr6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:33:47 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 00:34:17 -!- deliana [n=deliana@ABordeaux-158-1-109-192.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:35:57 dtulig [n=user@cpe-72-179-46-14.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:36:00 funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:13 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:37:36 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.228] has joined #lisp 00:38:06 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:47 Okay, so my website outgrew its shared environment. Now I've got my own web server and I want to rewrite my software in lisp - can you guys point me somewhere? An overview of the available tools would be perfect, but any help on web developing with lisp is appreciated 00:41:53 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-156-172.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:43:08 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-099-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:45:43 konr: Well, there are many frameworks in different state... 00:48:47 weblocks, ucw, lol, lsp, bknr, kpax and that's the ones that I could recall from memory 00:49:48 thanks! I'll take a look on them 00:49:56 aserve and arnesi as well 00:51:26 How is weblocks going? I was looking at it a year and a half ago but then I went and got a job... 00:51:46 -!- rukubite` is now known as rukubites 00:51:49 hmmm... anyone could tell me what happened to page.first_object_offset in SBCL's runtime? (struct page from gencgc-internal.h)? 00:53:23 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-82.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:56:24 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 00:57:10 jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:13 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@64.241.37.140] has quit [] 01:01:26 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:01:40 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:18 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:03:33 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:47 mfunebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:23 -!- deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:08:55 -!- funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:09:16 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-8.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:09:58 *p_l* wonders if this time he will manage it to the end of first stage 01:10:22 -!- jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:10:55 btw, how hard would it be to write a CL implementation without _any_ C/other lang runtime? 01:13:08 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:17:10 another try... 01:17:20 Buganini_ [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 01:17:21 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-593f7e1f3cd516ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:17:49 _dima [i=dima@torch.blackened.com] has joined #lisp 01:18:09 -!- mfunebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:18:09 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-18-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:18:09 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:18:09 -!- _dima_ [i=dima@torch.blackened.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:18:09 -!- V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fecade00-157.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:18:09 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:18:09 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:18:19 mfunebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:19 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #lisp 01:18:19 _dima_ [i=dima@torch.blackened.com] has joined #lisp 01:18:19 V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fecade00-157.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 01:18:19 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 01:18:19 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 01:18:23 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 01:18:23 -!- _dima_ [i=dima@torch.blackened.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 01:18:34 borism [n=boris@195.50.199.18] has joined #lisp 01:18:44 -!- rukubites [n=user@d58-110-97-161.mas6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:19:07 antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:43 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:21:43 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 01:22:50 -!- mfunebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:25:20 jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:28 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:25:53 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:26:07 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 01:31:26 -!- joha1 [n=johan@fw1.ngigroup.com] has left #lisp 01:37:11 -!- agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:38:20 .... where SBCL 1.0.25 keeps it's gc page size? 01:39:19 socratees [n=socratee@pool-173-74-74-186.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:02 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-156-172.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Kent Brockman: Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each] 01:45:45 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:45:47 -!- socratees [n=socratee@pool-173-74-74-186.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:45:53 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 01:47:03 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:47:20 -!- lemonade` [n=no@pool-151-200-237-97.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:47:48 lemonade` [n=no@pool-151-200-237-97.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:54 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:48:29 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 01:50:43 funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:51 -!- funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:53:28 funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:50 -!- funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:57:38 -!- benny` [n=benny@i577A0858.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:01:08 oh god, I hit ldb 02:01:34 run before it hits you back 02:02:21 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:03:46 "ldb hits p_l. ldb roll 30d100... ldb rolls 2064! p_l is dead. ldb, you can loot his remains" 02:04:00 rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:12 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:05:14 I give up for now 02:06:05 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-146-115.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:06:26 I still made it to second base without understanding anything about the code I was modifying :) 02:07:39 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 02:07:42 for now, I'll just set a limit to heap size :/ 02:08:04 dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-68-173-124-55.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:08:44 one of the admins was quite overwhelmed when he heard of Clozure's initial mmap of 512G :D 02:14:43 sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B5B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:15:10 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:16:55 theoffset [n=ismael@201-167-98-234-cable.cybercable.net.mx] has joined #lisp 02:17:00 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.228] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:18:06 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:21:01 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-146-115.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 02:21:19 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-186-234.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:22:42 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-146-115.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:23:35 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 02:31:38 -!- sulo [n=sulo@p57B4B4C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:32:20 svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has joined #lisp 02:32:36 how good is weblocks on clozure? 02:32:48 Can anyone here tell me how I can execute a system cmd from within lisp? 02:33:00 probably want to instal osicat 02:33:03 cl-osicat 02:33:11 *dtangren* just started learning lisp 02:33:34 I'm reading through http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ now 02:33:44 a very beautiful language 02:35:34 -!- froog__ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:37:11 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 02:40:35 dtangren: many implementations have a function called run-program 02:41:57 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:42:12 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:30 dtangren: it is likely that ASDF is loaded into your lisp already. If so, you can also use asdf:run-shell-command as a reasonably portable approach 02:43:23 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 02:43:28 new to lisp. asdf? 02:43:49 minion, asdf? 02:43:49 asdf: asdf is Another System Definition Facility. http://www.cliki.net/asdf 02:44:12 sorry. I must sound like an idiot 02:46:04 most free lisp libraries include an ASDF system definition to record what order to load the source files in and what other systems they depend on 02:46:06 *dtangren* is coming from a java ruby background 02:46:14 funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:28 -!- funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:46:56 funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:03 dtangren: asdf is basically a library loader 02:49:36 ah 02:49:37 you tell it about dependencies and it makes sure that other code you need is loaded before yours, and so on for the code that code needs... 02:49:55 isn't that what load and use are for 02:49:57 it can also be persuaded to do general build-process stuff for other things, but that's not the main use 02:50:01 no 02:50:18 LOAD is the primitive; it says execute this *now* 02:50:19 is also a bit confused with in-package 02:50:33 asdf is about compile and load *ordering* 02:50:52 and also that if B needs C and you ask for B then C should be loaded a well 02:51:04 in-package, use-package, etc are *namespace* tools 02:51:27 namespace issues are COMPLETELY SEPARATE from loading issues 02:51:40 okay so when I use asdf to execute a function/macro I should have to worry about what else that function/macro depends on having loaded 02:51:48 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-71-184-223-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["I fear that I must depart for now."] 02:51:53 it happens that the effect of loading something is often to add definitions to some namespace (package) 02:51:59 should not have to I mean 02:52:11 almost 02:52:58 you use asdf to load a system, that causes definitions to be set 02:53:12 so perhaps after loading some system you can call a function it defined 02:53:32 there is no "call this function, loading the library defining it if needed" 02:53:41 dtangren: you can think of ASDF as equivalent of make or java ant 02:53:42 (though you can write that. I did.) 02:53:42 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-5.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:54 well, it's make *and* the dynamic linker 02:54:13 just-in-time file compilation :-) 02:54:17 *kpreid* must go 02:54:20 ok 02:54:25 thanks for your help 02:54:31 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 02:55:20 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:06 dtangren: basically, you can try to do it Ruby way, but it would _break_. ASDF is there to make sure everything is loaded properly :) 02:56:19 and loading often means *compiling* :) 02:57:13 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:37 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:57:52 so you use asdf rather than an import/require at the top of a file? 02:58:29 bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-71-184-223-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:36 I'm also getting adjusted to the workflow of REPL which is also new to me 02:58:38 dtangren: no, you write an asdf definition file, and then use it to load your app. It will take care of loading all other files 02:59:19 okay I see 02:59:40 I still have a lot to read up on 03:00:25 basically, this file contains instructions of the like: baz depends on foo and bar, bar depends on quux" etc. 03:01:00 okay so then it's akin to a maven pom.xml file 03:01:54 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:17 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:03:22 yeah. many open source lisp implementations also modify their (require ... ) forms so that if the parameter matches an asdf definition file, it will execute necessary command to load it 03:03:24 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 03:03:49 which causes endless confusion.. 03:03:59 heh 03:04:35 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250006.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:05:53 blitz_ [n=blitz@89-186-142-125.dynamic.primacom.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:08 drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:56 Thanks guys for helping me out. Sorry for the minor noobie annoyance 03:06:56 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-68-173-124-55.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 03:07:17 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:20 c|mell [n=cmell@x250027.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 03:08:48 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:10:27 heh. I wish all noobs were like that (Hell, I'm a noob too, I just jump at heavy objectives praying to learn it fast enough :-D) 03:12:43 if you get lucky enough times in a row, the wave function will collapse and you'll be a guru 03:13:22 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:14:16 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 03:14:52 hefner: that assumes wave functions collapse 03:15:17 (though, in this case, they might) 03:15:28 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:16:01 now, instead of known-to-work sbcl, I'm going to set my "homepage" on CCL 03:19:26 How should I choose between araneida and apache? 03:22:50 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-132-29.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:09 -!- eno [n=eno@adsl-70-137-132-29.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:23:09 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:25:12 Tordek [n=tordek@host17.190-137-255.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:26:23 -!- doghead [n=email@93-97-25-170.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 03:26:51 sykopomp|toilet [n=user@c-71-232-102-206.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:56 -!- sykopomp|toilet [n=user@c-71-232-102-206.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:27:30 sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:31:37 argh, first time "clbuild install" for a big package takes ages 03:32:44 bbe [n=bbe@58.213.186.182] has joined #lisp 03:33:50 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 03:36:40 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 03:37:29 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:38:26 UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:21 -!- tetha [n=hk@pD9EE5F6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:48:30 tetha [n=hk@pD9EE5D94.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:08 when a compilation fails after ,load 'ing a system from slime, is there a quick way to visit the file that failed to compile? 03:58:43 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 03:59:16 Hit RET on the errors in the *compilation-errors* (or whatever it's called) buffer that pops up? 04:00:04 zoe [n=zoe@c-67-166-12-161.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:45 Hi, I'm trying to figure out what this error from sbcl means: The bounding indices 0 and 10 are bad for a sequence of length 4. Any suggestions? 04:02:48 Zoe pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76798 04:02:56 http://paste.lisp.org/display/76798 04:04:47 dysinger [n=dysinger@166.190.13.103] has joined #lisp 04:05:07 Riastradh: hmm, the only buffer that pops up is the debugger, which offers restarts and shows the backtrace 04:05:14 ...oh. 04:05:31 What if you ,CL the file instead? 04:07:07 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@166.190.13.103] has quit [Client Quit] 04:07:33 The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087F593.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:00 that does bring up a *SLIME Compiler-Notes* buffer, but it defeats the purpose as ,cl requires i enter the path to the file 04:08:30 Oops. Isn't there a command to compile a system? 04:11:11 yes; ,compile-system produces the same behavior (debugger) 04:11:53 *jlf`* wonders if it's a missing slime contrib 04:14:11 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:16:58 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:18:39 -!- bbe [n=bbe@58.213.186.182] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:20:50 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 04:24:20 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D72C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:25:12 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:26:36 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 04:27:17 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:47 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:58 dysinger [n=dysinger@166.191.110.124] has joined #lisp 04:34:41 -!- zoe [n=zoe@c-67-166-12-161.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:36:34 -!- drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has left #lisp 04:36:34 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:36:49 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:39:11 -!- funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:39:35 funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:42 -!- p_l [i=plasek@korn.rootnode.net] has quit ["leaving"] 04:41:51 p_l [i=plasek@korn.rootnode.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:45 Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 04:45:59 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@166.191.110.124] has quit ["Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info/"] 04:46:04 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-82.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 04:46:19 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:29 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-82.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:46:45 cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:33 HG` [n=wells@222-155-42-52.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:50:03 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@89-186-142-125.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:56:42 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:12:00 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:18:58 vitriol [n=vitriol@unaffiliated/vitriol] has joined #lisp 05:20:11 -!- lacedaemon [n=algidus@88-149-212-145.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 05:20:32 -!- vitriol [n=vitriol@unaffiliated/vitriol] has left #lisp 05:26:35 -!- HG` [n=wells@222-155-42-52.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:28:31 -!- sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit ["Yow! Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED!"] 05:28:44 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-219.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:29:50 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:30:55 -!- Buganini_ is now known as Buganini 05:35:28 heh. 05:35:40 *p_l* is happy, finally a remote lisp image to play with ^_^ 05:38:09 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:39:25 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 05:47:53 -!- yoonkn [n=yoonkn@210.108.170.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:49:26 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:20 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:54:35 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:54:51 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.134.36] has joined #lisp 05:55:18 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 06:00:42 -!- lemonade` [n=no@pool-151-200-237-97.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:01:10 yeoh [n=chatzill@1.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 06:01:37 -!- yeoh [n=chatzill@1.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has left #lisp 06:17:23 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:18:05 -!- manic12_ [n=manic12@c-24-14-239-25.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:18:50 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 06:19:34 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:06 Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 06:25:16 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:58 Pip [n=pip@unaffiliated/pip] has joined #lisp 06:27:31 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has joined #lisp 06:28:29 benny [n=benny@i577A031E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:32:34 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:33:01 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-5.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [] 06:42:05 -!- funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:42:41 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:43:27 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 06:50:14 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 06:53:18 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.30] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:58:24 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:59:00 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:59:26 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 07:02:55 rlpowell [n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 07:03:12 Man, I need to switch to clbuild. My /usr/lib/sbcl/site/ dir is a total mess. :( 07:03:37 Why was that happening ? 07:04:22 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.166.169] has joined #lisp 07:06:39 Mixture of experimental crap and asdf-install. 07:07:57 Related to slime ? 07:09:06 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:10:11 workthrick [n=mathrick@0xc2efec05.hotspot.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:12:06 Nope; don't use emacs. 07:15:37 hmm... I decided to try sbcl on my new webhost instead of Clozure due to some problems with weblocks... and surprise, sbcl does *not* start at all 07:15:55 Ouch. 07:16:00 What happens when you try? 07:16:11 I've only ever used sbcl in my weblocks dev; I'm on Debian. 07:16:19 ensure_space: failed to validate 1044480 bytes at 0x20000000 07:16:31 debian, grsec in kernel 07:16:40 apparently randomized address space 07:16:44 How much space does top say you have free? 07:17:00 rlpowell: Clozure ran with it's 512G binding :D 07:17:06 Huh, I've never encountered grsec. 07:17:08 Oh. :) 07:17:13 sbcl doesnt work on some vps hosts 07:17:34 Did you compile sbcl yourself? 07:17:50 I ask because the Debian packages are always hella out of date *anyway*, so it might be worth trying. 07:17:54 rlpowell: binary from sbcl homepage 07:18:01 Chronona1t: no VPS here 07:18:33 *nod* 07:18:36 it's a shared shell server with some goodies (like ulimit -a showing everything as "unlimited") 07:19:05 Yeah, I suspect that the randomized address space is the problem. Recompiling might help, but *shrug* 07:19:16 Might want to post to the sbcl-help list. 07:19:16 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:19:32 rlpowell: but you first need to recompile it :D Though I guess it should recompile under Clozure 07:22:48 ccl 1.3 starts nicely 07:23:02 and if not for some bugs that creep in, it would be nice 07:24:55 ccl ?= clozure 07:24:57 *p_l* loads in lol 07:25:00 did sbcl change sb-sys:fd-stream? 07:25:02 rlpowell: yup 07:25:10 (all amd64) 07:25:21 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-11-235.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 07:29:10 ASau` [n=user@host83-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 07:33:30 urk. lol doesn't load properly at all >_> 07:34:04 is there a good way to let sbcl know about systems (asdf) in other directories besides ln -s to them within ~/.sbcl/systems and ~/.sbcl/site? 07:34:26 voidengineer: modify asdf:*central-registry* 07:36:23 I'll look at the docs on that since I already have ~/.asdf-install-dire pushed onto that, but everything is getting installed into ~/.sbcl 07:36:31 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 07:37:11 or do you want to put fasls into certain place? 07:37:28 no, I'm not concerned about where those end up 07:37:34 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:37:43 but I just want to have asdf know to look in the dir where I keep my projects 07:38:18 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:39:15 (pushnew #P"/full/path/to/dir/with/my/asd/files" asdf:*central-registry*) 07:40:20 k 07:41:04 well, right now I keep the asd's in the project dir 07:41:36 and the projects are each in their own dir 07:42:23 this is probably trivial stuff. I'll look at the docs and let you get back to your work 07:45:32 voidengineer: just get into habit of putting #P before path. sbcl didn't have trouble, but CCL didn't accept.... 07:45:40 voidengineer: FWIW, I found it very confusing at first. I still don't really understand it; I just copy old code I had working before. 07:45:40 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has joined #lisp 07:45:43 oh, and nevermind on that question about sb-sys:fd-steam. 07:46:26 p_l, k will do 07:46:35 rlpowell, same 07:46:57 "it" there being asdf. 07:46:59 I still don't remember how I generated a list of all the symbols I wanted to make a part of my package.lisp file 07:47:12 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:47:32 this is what I get for stepping away from my code for 3 years 07:47:38 this is penance, lol 07:48:25 Heh heh. 07:49:28 -!- Chronona1t is now known as Chrononaut 07:50:18 *p_l* fears adding all symbols by hand to his swig-generated files 07:50:58 lol, it's scary huh? 07:51:02 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0xc2efec05.hotspot.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:51:04 could spend all night doing it 07:51:33 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:52:17 -!- The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087F593.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:52:29 voidengineer: I spent all night first copying those signatures from include files :> 07:52:56 I think I played with swig once 07:53:16 back when I wanted to write a ffi to e17's libraries 07:53:44 takes stamina to do that sort of thing 07:53:55 I might just do ETK this time around and skip all the other cruft 07:54:17 and skip swig and do it all by hand 07:54:53 voidengineer: I didn't know CFFI at all so swig created a nice template :) 07:55:04 yeah 07:55:26 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:51 good morning 07:57:50 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087F593.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:42 mvilleneuve: morning 08:01:06 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 08:02:52 -!- deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:05:30 I wonder if singing wihtout inhibitions a song in language you barely know counts as a sign that I shouldn't have skipped sleep today... 08:05:54 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:08 I do that all the time 08:06:18 It's just human ;) 08:07:22 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:07:37 lol 08:07:51 I sing piano, if that counts as another language 08:08:09 indeed it does 08:08:13 people think I'm kookoo for cocoa puffs when I do 08:08:30 even had a strange guy come up to me once and said "hey you're that guy always singing when you walk" 08:08:33 lol 08:08:57 I can't help it though. JS Bach's goldberg variations are divine! 08:09:05 that they are 08:09:29 hehehe 08:12:00 -!- rlpowell [n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has left #lisp 08:12:58 it would be if I had a voice that would be bearable to hear singing ;-) 08:14:25 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:14:38 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 08:18:02 -!- Pip [n=pip@unaffiliated/pip] has left #lisp 08:21:57 yCrazyEdd [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 08:22:44 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087F593.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:25:11 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:25:24 -!- yCrazyEdd is now known as CrazyEddy 08:27:48 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 08:28:40 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:29:30 Malbolgne [n=baal@h49n2fls303o885.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:32:15 g'day 08:33:02 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 08:33:08 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:41:09 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 08:44:28 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.248.90] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:46:06 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 08:47:40 Hello 08:47:45 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 08:48:04 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:27 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.133.193] has joined #lisp 08:52:50 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:53:08 ... I was heard... outside the room 08:54:45 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 08:56:06 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 08:56:21 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:57:42 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:00:57 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:02:15 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:02:53 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 09:03:36 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:04:53 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250027.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:05:44 hmm... my CCL problems changed into Hunchentoot problems 09:06:25 c|mell [n=cmell@x250004.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 09:07:11 hey, do you guys know how to get darcs to give you a list of previous patch names? 09:07:17 this is the wrong place to ask... 09:09:38 nm 09:10:23 *aerique* wonders why using stroke is much slower than using fill-path in vecto 09:11:21 ejs1 [n=eugen@94-248-11-235.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 09:12:05 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:12:14 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 09:12:32 jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:55 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-11-235.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:13:44 hmm, nevermind it's probably due to a optimization i had to comment out :) 09:17:06 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.134.36] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:20:45 http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/vnc2swf/slime.html man that guy is quick in emacs 09:20:59 and it sounds like he has a mechanical kbd too :) 09:24:28 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:28:05 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA0DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:28:20 bgupta [n=bgupta@dsl081-214-002.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:43 Hi learning SBCL (and Lisp)... 09:29:10 Basically I want to launch lisp programs from my shell scripts 09:29:29 So I found: sbcl --noinform --noprint --load hw.listp 09:29:58 I'm wondering what I have to do to get my program to "return" from SBCL 09:30:09 add (quit) at the end 09:30:26 is anyone aware of a simple sql parser written in cl? 09:30:44 (apropos "EXIT") might also be useful 09:32:20 Fufie [n=poff@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:32:34 thanks 09:33:01 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.166.169] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:33:45 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@94-248-11-235.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:35:03 agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has joined #lisp 09:35:39 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:37:15 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.230.45] has joined #lisp 09:37:20 dejai [n=dejai@230.15.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:39:24 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.230.45] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:39:49 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.230.45] has joined #lisp 09:41:32 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.159.204] has joined #lisp 09:43:02 When using print are double quotes required? 09:43:03 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.159.204] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:43:23 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.159.204] has joined #lisp 09:43:47 kami- [n=user@193.218.18.18] has joined #lisp 09:43:52 Also, what is the difference between (quit) and (apropos "EXIT") 09:44:11 lol 09:44:22 apropos is the same in lisp as it is in linux 09:44:23 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.159.204] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:44:28 bgupta: double quotes are required to specify a literal string. 09:44:41 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.159.204] has joined #lisp 09:45:14 H4ns: Is there a way to output without the doublequotes being echoed to the terminal? 09:45:35 deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 09:45:35 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.159.204] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:45:57 H4ns2 [n=Hans@p57BB9FFB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:58 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.159.204] has joined #lisp 09:46:13 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA0DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:46:15 -!- H4ns2 is now known as H4ns 09:47:03 Also is there a way to print a newline? 09:47:15 "no, lisp cannot print newlines" 09:47:39 lol. Ok how do you print a newline 09:47:42 ? 09:47:50 (poorly phrased question 09:47:57 ) 09:47:58 bgupta: please read a tutorial on lisp now. then return. 09:48:12 Do you recomend one? 09:48:21 minion: tell bgupta about pcl 09:48:22 bgupta: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 09:48:31 I started with touretsky's book 09:48:46 minion: tell bgupta about gentle 09:48:46 bgupta: please see gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 09:48:46 thx 09:49:01 yeah, that was a great start for me 09:49:21 I had so much fun learning lisp tbh 09:49:34 well, not that i'm done learning, I'm still a noob 09:49:40 i used http://www.franz.com/resources/educational_resources/cooper.book.pdf and found it very nice, but it is a little acl specific. 09:49:42 but that was a well... "gentle" start 09:49:43 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.159.204] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:50:10 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.159.204] has joined #lisp 09:52:31 yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:53:01 -!- agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:56:57 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.159.204] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:57:19 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.159.204] has joined #lisp 09:57:19 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.159.204] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 09:57:29 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:57:33 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:25 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.230.45] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:02:01 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #lisp 10:02:09 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 10:03:03 hmmm.. anyone can tell me where exactly I should look for weblocks setting hunchentoot:*acceptor*? 10:03:11 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 10:03:42 p_l: why do you think weblocks "sets" it? 10:04:00 H4ns: "passes it" would be better phrasing :) 10:04:11 p_l: i.e. it is bound by hunchentoot before calling a handler, i can't think of a reason why weblocks should change it. 10:04:31 H4ns: when you want to call (reset-sessions) from inside repl 10:05:07 p_l: ah - i think that was discussed on the hunchentoot ml recently, let me see 10:06:01 p_l: the answer is: you need to save the return value of hunchentoot:start if you want to call reset-sessions from the outside. 10:06:26 ok 10:06:34 that gives me some bearing :) 10:06:37 p_l: i.e. hunchentoot:*acceptor* is not the variable to look for, then. 10:07:39 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:10:36 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-146-115.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 10:10:45 nice, cl-perec knows how to deal with timestamp comparisons and translate them to SQL 10:11:39 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-146-115.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:12:54 -!- spacebat_ is now known as spacebat 10:14:37 -!- jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:15:01 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:15:04 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 10:17:43 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:18:12 -!- yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:18:17 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:39 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:23:17 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:23 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:26:01 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.232.200] has joined #lisp 10:33:53 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:34:34 metasynt1x [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:27 drewc: are you here? 10:37:42 oh, timezone issue 10:38:25 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-123-207.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 10:39:56 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:40:01 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:18 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:44 aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has joined #lisp 10:46:56 -!- dejai [n=dejai@230.15.233.220.exetel.com.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:46:57 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:47:13 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:51:04 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-099-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:52 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 10:52:05 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:07 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:55:34 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:06 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:04:14 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:04:15 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:04:33 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 11:05:17 -!- voidengineer [n=Stephen@75.139.179.172] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:05:41 voidengineer [n=Stephen@75.139.179.172] has joined #lisp 11:05:43 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:07:04 hugod_ [n=hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441753.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:07:20 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 11:07:57 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-82.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:14:12 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-123-207.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:15:43 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:49 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 11:16:23 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442383.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:20:06 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:20:12 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:21:59 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@114-198-24-126.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:24:36 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:32:02 frodef [n=ffj@24.80-203-67.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:34:58 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:35:09 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 11:39:55 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:41:02 -!- ASau` [n=user@host83-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:41:13 ASau` [n=user@host83-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 11:44:37 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:47:13 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:15 pamir [n=pamir@193.140.126.12] has joined #lisp 11:49:26 -!- nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:50:46 agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has joined #lisp 11:51:03 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:58 -!- pamir [n=pamir@193.140.126.12] has quit [Client Quit] 11:52:30 pamir [n=pamir@193.140.126.12] has joined #lisp 11:52:32 ljosa [n=ljosa@gm3b6-dd5.broad.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 11:53:12 -!- pamir [n=pamir@193.140.126.12] has quit [Client Quit] 11:53:22 pamir [n=pamir@193.140.126.12] has joined #lisp 11:53:25 -!- pamir [n=pamir@193.140.126.12] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:53:56 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:07 hello friends 11:54:29 isismelting: hi 11:54:38 agnel - how are you doing 11:55:08 ah, not bad actually. 11:56:37 what are you doing? 11:57:07 checking out the lates emacs-jabber, ton of bug fixes, looks good. 11:58:36 are you into "chat bots" then 11:58:50 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:59:14 KalifG [n=user@32.176.123.250] has joined #lisp 11:59:53 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:00:32 the last bot I wrote was in perl, some 10 years back. not into bots anymore 12:01:03 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 12:02:07 what are you into 12:02:14 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:02:29 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:02:56 oh hello #lisp 12:03:19 hello schmx 12:03:23 how do? 12:04:32 -!- aquagnu [n=aquagnu@85.118.228.172] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:05:15 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:06:08 antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:06:23 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:06:46 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:16 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:07:19 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:07:30 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:07:45 attila_lendvai: poke 12:07:48 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:10 attila_lendvai: how can I find out what types and their ops are mapped directly to SQL? 12:08:44 ie. local-time:timestamp< is, how'd I go about learning that, other than guessing? 12:09:16 workthrick: (enable-sql-recording) seems to be the simplest 12:09:19 attila_lendvai: speaking of which, the example in SELECT documentation uses AFTER, which is not a valid clause 12:10:05 attila_lendvai: yes, I did that, but that tells me it is directly translatable. It doesn't answer the question of "is there any, and if so, what is the operation I should use to be mapped to SQL?" 12:11:57 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:12:07 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.133.142] has joined #lisp 12:12:15 _death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 12:13:24 workthrick: i don't usually care unless something is slow, so i don't know. when it's slow, then i look around what's going on... a feature in the query compiler would be useful though, that warns if the query could not be fully compiled to sql 12:13:46 attila_lendvai: aha, noted 12:14:13 workthrick: sorry to interrupt - what tool are you talking abt? 12:16:01 agnel: CL-PEREC 12:16:10 an ORM mapper 12:16:18 mathrick: you can also look around in cl-perec/query/mapping.lisp 12:16:20 nice. 12:16:58 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 12:17:11 agnel: nice, although damn tough to get running 12:17:15 workthrick: so it maps db tables to CLOS objects, right? 12:17:17 when it does, though, it works rather well 12:17:19 yes 12:17:24 so, is it only me or C-cC-c in the slime repl doesn't break a (loop) with sbcl head? 12:17:58 aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:18:21 agnel: the other way around, CLOS->db... using it with an old sql schema is not supported, it creates/updates its own schema 12:18:33 workthrick: oh, I see. maybe you could write raw SQL whenever the ORM misbehaves? 12:19:03 -!- p_l [i=plasek@korn.rootnode.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:19:06 p_l [i=plasek@korn.rootnode.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:15 hello 12:19:22 hello fe[nl]ix 12:19:28 szia ;) 12:20:18 agnel: nah, I was just asking, since much like every library attila_lendvai's team has written, it seriously doesn't believe in docs or not using 100 forked snapshots of various esoteric libraries :) 12:20:35 hiya fe[nl]ix 12:21:16 workthrick: the select after stuff... if you write an AFTER defun, then it works... ;) 12:21:48 attila_lendvai: yes, but it's not mapped to SQL. Whereas timestamp> is 12:22:04 if you _can_, you should definitely do as much as possible in SQL 12:22:27 with a few more def-foo-bar it can even be mapped... :) 12:22:53 because (transaction-timestamp) is mapped to sql now 12:23:42 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:23:53 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:25:32 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:31 hi workthrick :) 12:30:17 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-40-239.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:31:57 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-40-239.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:32:14 hi, has a proclaim always global scope and declaim a file scope? 12:33:19 Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:40 Declaim does proclamations. 12:34:10 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f49b9.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:34:33 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 12:34:45 Fine, so what is the difference? I just want local variables in the debugger... 12:35:05 Uh, what does that have to do with declaim or proclaim? 12:35:29 <_8david> robewald: It would be nice if there was something specified to have only file scope portably, but IIUC, there is no such thing. 12:36:01 Sure there is. Put everything in a let. 12:36:14 <_8david> robewald: That's why Edi writes (declare #.*foo*) in every single function manually. 12:36:15 Zhivago: I need to tell sbcl to optimize debug 3 and speed 0, and I don't want to change every defun with declare 12:36:22 right 12:36:34 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:36:44 <_8david> robewald: for SBCL, I think you can write (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (proclaim ...)) to achieve file scope, but I could be wrong. 12:36:56 robewald: Why not just generate your functions like that? 12:37:18 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087F593.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:31 can anyone recommend a graphics toolkit for Lisp? one simple enough to use and extend 12:38:26 antgreen1 [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:38:33 I thought I could do it with proclaim and be done with it. But apperantly not. What is the best way to do it? Edi's way (TM)? 12:38:39 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:38:54 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:41:39 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 12:41:43 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit ["[IRSSI]"] 12:41:43 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-40-239.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["[IRSSI]"] 12:41:55 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:41:59 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-40-239.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:43:19 <_8david> robewald: proclaim without eval-when doesn't help, because that would take affect at load time, not compilation time, which is the opposite of what you want. Have you tried (eval-when 12:43:34 <_8david> (:compile-toplevel) (proclaim ...)) as I suggested? 12:43:42 <_8david> Also, sorry for the whitespace paste. 12:43:52 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A6A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:43:52 robewald: declaim is the handy compile-time proclaim. just put a declaim at the top of the file 12:44:00 What he wants is for the proclaim to not affect things outside of the file ... 12:44:31 The portable solution is to introduce the declarations into the functions in the file -- just wrap defun. 12:45:06 ok, then thats what i need to do. I suppose Edis Way is the best then. Thanks. 12:45:31 Well, you could do it transparently by wrapping defun. 12:47:26 manic12_ [n=manic12@c-24-14-239-25.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:13 I know. I can either shadow defun with my own implementation of defun I suppose or define a my-defun. Shadowning has the disadvantage of introducing new semantics to an established name and my-defun means I have to replace the definitions. I think it is clearer by having a special variable controlling the compilation behavior. That allows more fine grained control as well. 12:49:46 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 12:50:23 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host17.190-137-255.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:50:45 <_8david> okay, turns out I was wrong: SBCL binds *policy* in LOAD, so it never leaks. 12:51:24 elurin [n=user@193.140.230.101] has joined #lisp 12:51:45 <_8david> still, since you only want to improve the debugging experience, #+sbcl (declaim ...) should just work for you. Edi's case is different, because he actually wants to increase SPEED on non-SBCL. 12:54:44 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 12:55:06 By #+sbcl (declaim ...) you mean having that in the toplevel of the file in question? 12:55:26 Sorry for being dense. I suppose I just try it out. 12:58:10 addled [n=adl@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:46 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:03 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit ["powerdown due to lack of power (rewiring home)"] 13:05:38 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-146-115.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 13:06:00 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:06:26 -!- ljosa [n=ljosa@gm3b6-dd5.broad.mit.edu] has quit [] 13:07:45 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:07:54 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-239.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:08:15 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@CMU-221270.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 13:14:34 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:15:07 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to 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[n=joelmccr@CMU-221270.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has left #lisp 13:50:40 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:51:21 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:13 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:54:36 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 13:54:57 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:09 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1D832.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:57:19 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp419.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:57:27 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp419.studby.uio.no] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:57:33 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1CABF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:46 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:12 -!- sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B5B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:06:24 willb [n=wibenton@wireless85.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:07:02 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:08:23 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:57 KingNato [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:27 -!- KingNato [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:09:30 KingNato [n=KingNato@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:12 attila_lendvai: I have a strange sbcl compiler warning while loading cl-dwim 14:11:13 kami-: which is 14:12:05 I'm trying to copy it, but you seem to have changed sth in init.el which prevents me from M-w ing things :) 14:12:25 kami- pasted "cl-dwim compiler warning" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76823 14:15:21 kami-: something is recompiled and reloaded into the image, and defpackage warns you that the package after update exports stuff taht you didn't list in your defpackage form 14:15:48 i.e. some (export 'foo) stuff 14:16:13 attila_lendvai: you mean I have load-op ed dwim, although I have it in my core? 14:16:28 kami-: that's my guess 14:16:56 or load-op something that depends on it 14:17:30 attila_lendvai: yes: my own package which contains the web app of course depends on dwim 14:18:12 :depends-on (:dwim :arnesi) 14:18:12 14:18:15 kami-: this is only a problem if a file was changed since you built the image 14:18:32 e.g. pulled some patched into dwim 14:18:56 attila_lendvai: ok. good to know 14:19:11 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f49b9.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:19:54 btw: dmm seems to export many entities which seem to be removed (person, tariff etc.) 14:23:45 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:23:57 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:24:35 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has joined #lisp 14:26:18 those packages need a big update... since we have cl-def we stopped updating them. many of the exports should be dropped from the defpackage form... 14:26:27 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:27:02 attila_lendvai: I have to go through them anyway. I'll send you a patch 14:27:27 attila_lendvai: while you're completely changing CL, change all the -p suffixes to question marks. :) 14:28:23 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:31:03 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-28.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:31:49 dlowe: any new stuff we write is using the ? convention, but we are still reluctant a bit to exporting them... 14:33:07 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 14:33:12 i don't like neither the -p and the 'f' postfix, but... 14:33:18 s/and/nor/ 14:33:19 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 14:33:23 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:35:12 deliana [n=deliana@ABordeaux-158-1-136-212.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:35:16 attila_lendvai: what about `!'? 14:35:47 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 14:35:47 I've been writing a library called xcl that you include instead of cl that has those syntactic changes 14:36:49 -p to ?, -f and n- to ! 14:37:28 outragef 14:37:43 *dlowe* chortles. 14:37:45 dlowe: Only thing left to change would be lambda to . 14:37:51 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f49b9.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:37:58 meingbg: I think sbcl already takes that 14:38:36 but really, that's one convention scheme got right and CL got wrong 14:38:56 (imho :) 14:39:01 dlowe: doesn't work for me in sbcl. 14:39:20 meingbg: cl-syntax-sugar does those lambda things 14:39:45 dlowe: is xcl available somewhere? 14:39:56 attila_lendvai: not finished yet 14:40:12 attila_lendvai: really? Would like to see how it actually does it, tried to fix it myself w/ no luck. 14:40:16 dlowe: i think we'll be your first users... ;) 14:40:19 I haven't actually messed with it much 14:40:50 meingbg: it both has emacs goodies to transform only the visual representation, and also some unicode magic when requested. 14:41:23 I don't understand, why anyone these days wants to continue using relics of Church formalism. 14:41:56 This isn't #scheme. 14:42:01 (define-syntax fn (syntax-rules (lambda) ((fn . l) (lambda . l)))) 14:42:37 then why are you using define-syntax instead of defmacro? :p 14:43:09 well, how's that different conceptually? all these ?/!/car/lambda aren't big issue 14:43:13 Because it is handy, I'm working with scheme right now. 14:44:01 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:44:01 ASau`: this is the fundamental part of lisp, to write (lambda (x) (expr x)) instead of x.expr x 14:44:08 I like the anachronisms, myself 14:44:21 Then your functions are data, and can be processed by functions, such as eval. 14:44:29 "lambda" is too long to type. 14:44:46 that's good. keeps people from using it 14:44:48 ASau`: they just type . 14:45:16 doylent [n=doylent@150.217.252.182] has joined #lisp 14:45:24 If typing is your big problem, you're not thinking enough. 14:45:29 matimago: Greek isn't my native language. 14:45:53 type "" 14:46:11  -. 14:46:13 (defmacro ? (&body body) `(lambda ,@body)) 14:46:18 :) 14:46:23  14:46:40 ASau`: some use \ instead of . 14:47:02 (defmacro \\ (args &body body) `(lambda ,args ,@body)) 14:47:29 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:47:30 that said, I like lambda. traditions are a good thing, there's not nearly enough sense of history in this profession 14:47:36 X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has joined #lisp 14:47:37 yeah. all these ideas are as good as #define BEGIN { 14:47:45 In order to make your code look more modern? 14:47:50 Like PERL? 14:47:50 i.e. they add nothing but confusion. 14:49:20 matimago: Am I right saying such a macro wouldn't work with a direct lambda call ((\\ (x) (1+ x)) 3) ? 14:50:15 meingbg: yes. 14:50:29 jlf` [n=user@nmd.sbx05975.petalca.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:47 50 years and 7 days. 14:50:54 and counting ... 14:51:19 -!- agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:53:39 matimago: from what event are you counting? 14:53:50 Paper submission? 14:53:58 well, what paper? 14:54:15 kerc [n=riise@65.84-49-151.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:54:34 aim-8? 14:56:11 an old document. what about it? 14:56:54 minion: tell kerc about logs 14:56:54 kerc: have a look at logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 14:57:22 ok great 14:57:50 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-136-198.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:58:21 deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has joined #lisp 14:58:50 attila_lendvai: It seems like cl-syntax-sugar doesn't support direct lambda function call with the new syntax? 14:59:17 meingbg: and how often did you use that? :) 14:59:22 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.139.18] has joined #lisp 14:59:54 attila_lendvai: Not that often :p 15:00:01 meingbg: you could install a reader intead of a macro on the lambda char... but we don't use the unicode woodoo, only transform the display of the emacs buffer... 15:00:12 this feature is worth removing 15:00:14 attila_lendvai: I'm mainly just exploring lisp's programmability. 15:01:15 meingbg: at one point when pondered about the not-so-cool indentation support in CL, we considered writing our own reader... 15:01:15 -!- bzwahr [n=user@rgs-4dec.tamu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:01:37 ...but instead we learned to live with it... :) 15:02:23 I started hunchentoot on Ubuntu, but it doesn't work somehow. When I access http://127.0.0.1:8000/, firefox display "Connection Interrupted" most of the times. Like 1/10 percentage, hunchentoot returns empty page like "" with header like only "HTTP/1.x 200 OK". Does anyone know why? 15:02:46 tomoyuki28jp: did you update all dependencies? 15:03:10 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250004.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:03:10 H4ns: How can I update all dependencies with asdf-install? 15:03:14 attila_lendvai: (def generic ... doesn't export the function, does it? 15:03:50 kami-: that would be (def (generic e) fooo...) 15:03:59 tomoyuki28jp: i don't use asdf-install, sorry. 15:04:31 attila_lendvai: may I change the exports in package.lisp to def (generic e)'s ? 15:05:20 kami-: if you are about to move the export stuff from the defpackage form to the defgeneric's then that patch would be welcome 15:07:17 v0|d [n=user@a.ns.core.gen.tr] has joined #lisp 15:07:20 c|mell [n=cmell@x250013.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 15:08:41 attila_lendvai: Ok, I see:-) I guess I'll learn to live w/ a lot of things, but for now I'm in the "explore-all-the-cool-but-useless-features"-phase of my lisp learning curve... 15:09:00 sulo [n=sulo@stgt-5d84593e.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:45 -!- kerc [n=riise@65.84-49-151.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:11:52 mega1: sbcl head refuses to break for C-c C-c... is that an unpleasant sideffect of some later patches or something is screwed up on my side? 15:12:22 attila_lendvai: does define-model-class export the slot accessor names? 15:12:25 stassats: indeed, publication date of AIM-8, which may be taken as the historic birthdate of Lisp. http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/aim-8 15:12:51 H4ns: uhm, I updated all dependencies, but it still doesn't work. 15:13:09 attila_lendvai: I didn't experience that so far. What's the test case? 15:13:12 mega1: hm, although it's not consistent... a simple (loop) breaks out well. 15:13:44 mega1: i'll keep my eyes open then, and i'll get back to you if i have more info or a test case 15:13:48 ok 15:14:09 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-28.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 15:14:11 tomoyuki28jp: we just ran hunchentoot/sbcl/ubuntu-8.10/x86 on 60 computers without any issue last weekend. 15:14:26 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:14:29 tomoyuki28jp: i had some problems problems with recent hunchentoot that were resolved by removing stale fasls...thanks to h4ns' suggestion :) 15:14:40 s/problems // 15:15:36 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:16:21 jlf`: You removed fasls in which directory? 15:16:33 So sbcl doesn't support unicode?f 15:16:54 sbcl supports unicode 15:17:00 jlf`: /usr/lib/sbcl/site/*/*.fasl? 15:17:01 meingbg: what do you mean by "support unicode"? 15:17:20 tomoyuki28jp: that's what i did.. but that's a big hammer 15:17:40 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:20:14 'morning 15:20:47 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit ["time to go"] 15:22:02 hugod pasted "cxml - trying copy input with doctype specification" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76827 15:23:39 The above complains that a puri:uri is not a sequence 15:24:24 eno___ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-166-97.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:29 jlf`: I did it, but it's the same. 15:24:32 uhm 15:24:43 jlf`: thanks for your advice though. 15:25:10 pkhuong: Like using unicode character literals, #\ 15:25:35 pkhuong: Or (length "") returning 8 instead of 4. 15:26:22 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:27:21 meingbg: works for me. perhaps sb-unicode isn't enabled in your build 15:27:27 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:27:34 If I change cxml:ensure-doctype to convert the uri to a string, then I end up with the whole xhtml dtd inlined in the output document 15:27:48 pkhuong: Did you use asdf-install to install hunchentoot? (I did) 15:28:19 -!- elurin [n=user@193.140.230.101] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:28:31 dlowe: Ah, that would be it. 15:30:07 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:36:20 How can I do this? "disable exception handling by the Hunchentoot and pass it along the Lisp image" http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-597079.html 15:36:54 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-177.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 15:37:08 http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/#conditions 15:37:39 bah. so I tell apache to serve static imaged directly instead of proxying them to araneida, and it turns out that araneida is within 10% of apache speed serving those images anyway 15:37:46 milanj [n=milan@93.87.152.202] has joined #lisp 15:39:09 stassats: thanks! 15:39:22 -!- jlf` [n=user@nmd.sbx05975.petalca.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:40:35 lichtblau annotated #76827 "cxml patch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76827#1 15:40:41 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:42:02 I am using this macro, which works correctly: (defmacro el-index (elmnt lst &key (test #'eql)) `(position ,elmnt ,lst :test ,test)) . However, when I use this macro in a function, the sbcl compiler does warns: ; # ; caught ERROR: 15:42:02 ; Objects of type FUNCTION can't be dumped into fasl files. 15:42:02 15:42:28 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.101.175] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 '#'eql 15:43:19 Ah, I see jsnell, Or I could use 'eql as well? 15:44:23 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.163.101.175] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:45:12 lichtblau: thank you! Is it possible to prevent the whole dtd from being expanded in the output document? 15:45:42 The error message was "Error while processing connection: # is not a character input stream." Why does this happen? 15:46:16 <_8david> hugod_: hmm, I don't get that problem with my change 15:46:41 tomoyuki28jp: you're propably still not up to date. try checking out hunchentoot from svn://bknr.net/svn/ediware 15:46:46 <_8david> (Admittedly I tried it with my own DTD because I didn't have the catalog to try your test case directly.) 15:46:53 <_8david> deego: (defmacro foo (&key (test nil testp)) `(fun ... ,@(when testp `(:test ,test)))) would avoid having to default things 15:47:36 H4ns: I will try that way. Thanks a lot for your advice. 15:48:03 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit ["leaving"] 15:48:19 brb 15:48:27 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-136-198.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:49:11 ``Erik__ [n=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:25 Gav8in [n=gavin@ytz.ca] has joined #lisp 15:50:26 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 15:51:00 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:51:07 <_8david> hugod_: nevermind, I can reproduce it. 15:51:21 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.139.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:52:05 <_8david> you can fix the bug by remoing the (serialize-declaration-kludge (slot-value source 'external-declarations) handler) line 15:52:11 attila_lendvai: http://bitmuse.com/tmp/xcl.lisp 15:52:35 <_8david> ... I'm not sure why I thought that would be correct. 15:55:27 dlowe: thanks! that file could use a few macrolet's... and the macrolet's could emit compiler macros and defun's so that #'number? also works as expected... if you set up a darcs repo i think i would implement these eventually 15:56:15 but there are too many important stuff on the top of my TODO for now... 15:57:09 jsnell: Thanks. I see that '#' macroexpands correctly. Still trying to understanding why. .. I parse the backquote carefully manually. And, with '#', it should expand to: (position elt lst :test '(function eql)), which should be an error. But macroexpand-1 gets rid of the quote before (function eql) ... 15:57:38 _8david: working here. thank you. 15:58:24 _8david: thanks 15:59:41 _8david: though I now get xmlns attributes on everything 15:59:46 -!- antgreen1 [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:59:55 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.133.142] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:00:44 blitz_ [n=blitz@141.76.49.57] has joined #lisp 16:01:36 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@141.76.49.57] has quit [Client Quit] 16:01:41 blitz_ [n=blitz@141.76.49.57] has joined #lisp 16:02:24 jsnell: Ah, I finally understand. Thanks much again. 16:03:06 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@141.76.49.57] has quit [Client Quit] 16:03:33 blitz_ [n=blitz@2002:8d4c:3001:48:216:d3ff:feb0:58e0] has joined #lisp 16:08:59 adeht pasted "sbcl weirdness" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76831 16:09:08 <_death> anyone want to comment? 16:09:21 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 16:09:41 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 16:11:12 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB9FFB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:14:55 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 16:17:08 -!- theoffset [n=ismael@201-167-98-234-cable.cybercable.net.mx] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:18:53 -!- eno___ is now known as eno 16:19:24 attila_lendvai: hm, good point - I didn't consider using them as functions. 16:20:47 attila_lendvai: perhaps I should just trust the inlining 16:20:57 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:21:33 according to the slime source, SWANK::*SWANK-STATE-STACK* can either be nil or its car must be one of '(:READ-NEXT-FORM :SWANK-DEBUGGER-HOOK) 16:22:01 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:22:02 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 16:22:25 <_death> cmm: right, but that's not really about slime.. it looks like an sbcl bug, as the two symbols share the same value cell 16:22:26 dlowe: yep, good point. no need for the compiler macro stuff... although i'm not sure if a compiler-macro is applied to the result of an inlining, and many cl functions have compiler macros 16:23:15 _death: or something fishy is happening during swank<->slime communication 16:23:19 attila_lendvai: so you're suggestion a defun and compiler macro per? 16:23:30 s/suggestion/suggesting/ 16:24:00 dlowe: not sure. if the rule is to try compiler macros after inlining then we should go with a simple inlining 16:25:22 I wonder if it'd be more robust to do setf symbol-function tricks 16:25:22 <_death> cmm: I don't see how that can happen, as the let form is sent to sbcl, evaluated as usual, and only the result is returned to slime 16:27:36 _death: you are probably right. you could make completely sure by evaluating the same form in the *inferior-lisp* buffer 16:27:58 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:01 <_death> sure, same result 16:30:29 attila_lendvai: (setf (macro-function 'set!) (macro-function 'setf)) works. That would indicate a much, much easier way to do things 16:31:28 _death: perhaps mega1 wants to know about this, I think most changes in 1.0.26 are his 16:31:34 H4ns1: I got hunchentoot from svn repo, but the result is the same. uhm... 16:31:55 dlowe: yep, that should be done for macros then. but the same applied to functions means that the compiler macros are ignored... 16:32:05 *mega1* is reading it 16:32:22 attila_lendvai: don't know about other implementations, but sbcl doesn't use compiler macros for any of the replaced functions 16:33:32 it has other compiler-macro-like concepts though 16:33:39 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:33:50 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 16:34:05 attila_lendvai: anyway, you can setf compiler-macro-function 16:34:50 dlowe: see jsnell's remark. if we don't go through a macro and emit the CL symbol then we potentially lose optimizations 16:35:13 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:36:03 _death: is it repeatable? can't reproduce it here with 1.0.25.56 16:36:09 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-171.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 16:37:03 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-132-232.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:21 <_death> mega1: it happens "often", I had to restart the lisp a couple of times to reproduce it 16:38:35 <_death> when it happens, it'll persist until the end of the session 16:38:56 danlei [n=user@pD9E2D4EC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:58 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.139.18] has joined #lisp 16:41:54 <_death> I guess one way to localize it is to write a script to run it a jillion times, testing, and bisect as necessary 16:41:58 _death: (defun foo (symbol) (sb-vm::symbol-tls-index symbol)) 16:42:15 and do (foo 'swank::*emacs-connection*) 16:42:19 and with the other symbol too 16:42:31 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.139.18] has quit [Client Quit] 16:42:40 <_death> same value 16:42:47 oops 16:42:53 that's baad 16:43:04 <_death> yes.. maybe something to do with the hash changes? 16:43:55 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-223.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:45:04 _death: that's the most likely one I see in the commit log 16:45:33 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:45:36 did 1.0.25 work? 16:46:18 <_death> looks like it did.. I think I used 1.0.25.7 before, and didn't have that problem 16:47:24 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:47:45 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:49:05 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.232.200] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:49:15 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 16:49:52 _death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 16:50:24 <_death> meh 16:51:41 -!- doylent [n=doylent@150.217.252.182] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 16:51:53 _death: what was the value? 16:52:18 <_death> 1261 16:53:26 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:55:33 _death: (foo 'swank::*connections*) ? 16:55:47 <_death> 0 16:56:07 (I have googled, and rtm'ed for this.. before asking here :).. ) -- I have a useful inline defun, and a useful macro, which help save a lot of time, and do the right thing depending on the argument. But, when I compile code containing them, I get a lot of 'deleting unreachable code' warnings... Of course, I know the warnings are spurious, because some other invocations of the macro will use that code.. .Is there a way to tell the 16:56:07 compiler that unreachable code is ok .. only for these macros.. ? 16:56:09 bah 16:56:28 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:56:59 deego: In SBCL? RTM on controlling verbosity. 16:57:27 pkhuong: I like the verbosity. I want to suppress in *only* for these two macros 16:57:31 it* 16:58:04 deego: I'm sure you'll figure it out yourself. 16:58:05 deego: RTM anyway, it shows ways to control it locally 16:58:08 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:58:20 I see, thanks, let me read. 16:58:35 (and my reply contains a spoiler of sorts :)) 16:59:13 heh, yes, I see now, thanks again 16:59:19 _death: I'll look into this later. In the meantime bisecting could really help a lot. 17:00:48 <_death> k, I'll play with it for a bit 17:01:31 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:03:05 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:05:28 Finally I make it to work hunchentoot on my system. 17:06:25 nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 17:06:44 H4ns1's advice was right. I was only upgraded packages in /usr/lib/sbci/site/, but there were few more in ~/.sbcl/site/. 17:07:43 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #lisp 17:08:29 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:19 lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:11:48 _death: is this x86 or x86-64? 17:11:51 <_death> x86 17:11:56 slime version/date? 17:12:24 <_death> 2009-03-09 17:12:41 jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has joined #lisp 17:12:47 |Krnl| [n=kvirc@190.105.18.156] has joined #lisp 17:13:10 -!- |Krnl| [n=kvirc@190.105.18.156] has left #lisp 17:13:56 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 17:17:28 speaking of slime... has anyone else complained about big compilations in slime/sbcl being _really_ slow lately? 17:19:24 <_death> mega1: btw when it doesn't happen, I get 1261 for swank-state-stack and 1262 for emacs-connection 17:20:21 _death: only means that no special is bound for the first time between those two 17:22:13 slyrus_: how big is big? I've compiled Lisp on Lines and all its deps in slime about twenty times over the past couple of days, and it doesn't seem any slower than from the raw sbcl repl. 17:22:14 _death: is this a 1000 cpu box under load? 17:22:37 Fade: mcclim big. probably no bigger than LoL. 17:22:51 <_death> mega1: nah, just my personal quad core 17:23:14 slyrus_: are you on linux? 17:23:16 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:23:36 _death: os/kernel version? 17:24:01 <_death> Linux sneeze 2.6.25.20-0.1-pae #1 SMP 2008-12-12 20:30:38 +0100 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux 17:24:12 -!- cavelife^ is now known as cavelife 17:24:18 _death: what's pae? 17:24:28 <_death> address extensions 17:24:42 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 17:24:59 <_death> dunno why I work with pae, actually.. some update must have made it the default setup 17:25:40 _death: do you have less then 4G of ram and sbcl is started with a core < 2G? 17:25:47 Fade: OSX 17:26:00 yeah, I know, that's probably the problem :) 17:26:14 attila_lendvai: I've constructed an introspecting sbcl-dependent defalias horror that will visit me in my nightmares. It also seems to work pretty well. http://bitmuse.com/tmp/xcl.lisp 17:26:40 <_death> mega1: 2 gigs of ram.. how do I answer the second part? 17:26:41 rollbox [n=rollbox@221.5.52.248] has joined #lisp 17:26:53 no need to answer then 17:27:14 (should have been heap < 2g anyway ...) 17:27:30 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:27:38 samira [n=zoya153@85.198.35.4] has joined #lisp 17:27:47 slyrus_: are you using sbcl? 17:27:50 well, you can still start sbcl with a heap > 2g, but it wouldn't make much sense for you 17:27:59 Fade; yes, 1.0.26.1 17:28:08 and 2G+ heap support is still buggy. 17:28:16 on x86, that is. 17:28:20 dlowe: ehh... :) looks much better though 17:28:26 I suppose I should try it with ccl and see if it happens there 17:28:28 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:04 ccl is faster anyway, and doesn't emit as much output as sbcl 17:29:07 dlowe: xcl is a bit misleading... any other nameing ideas? something like SCHOMMON-LISP? :D 17:29:18 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 17:29:22 attila_lendvai: the only truly unportable bit is the sb-introspect:function-lambda-list 17:29:59 i use ccl on my osx machine because it's ppc 17:30:20 attila_lendvai: yeah, I see that xcl is already taken 17:30:27 -!- rumbleca_ is now known as rumbleca 17:30:40 *mega1* is gone 17:31:28 slyrus_: I've noticed it being super slow on darwin, 3-4 times slower than before, but I haven't had time to investigate yet 17:31:49 rumbleca: yeah, and it seems to be a fairly recent thing too... 17:31:50 on my linux box, with a fresh checkout of sbcl 1.0.26.1 and slime, and a fresh checkout of mcclim and its deps: 17:31:56 Evaluation took: 352.519 seconds of real time 162.281330 seconds of total run time (153.920601 user, 8.360729 system) 17:32:01 slyrus_: yes, about a month ago or so 17:32:37 compiling flexi streams takes about 20 minutes 17:34:49 -!- ``Erik__ [n=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:35:22 -!- Fufie [n=poff@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:35:56 not good... well, if it's in SBCL, that's easier (for me at least) to track down than some weird slime/emacs interaction. 17:36:26 hmmm.... I wonder if this could be related to mega1's interrupt/signal cleanup stuff 17:37:02 are you on aquamacs? 17:37:22 I was using carbon emacs, not aquamacs 17:37:32 xemacs on x does redisplay faster than aquamacs or carbon emacs. 17:37:40 carbon emacs being the worst. 17:37:54 all on the same host. 17:37:55 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:37:58 -!- rollbox [n=rollbox@221.5.52.248] has left #lisp 17:38:11 -!- ASau` [n=user@host83-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Off."] 17:38:27 I'm disgusted. This is the 21st century and we're still talking about redisplay speed? How is this possible? 17:38:28 carbon emacs 22 seemed ok for me, 23 is another story 17:38:50 the carbom emacs port has awful redisply characteristics. 17:39:16 climacs did redisplay faster than carbon emacs the last time i tested this shit about six months ago. 17:40:34 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-60-163.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 17:40:36 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:40:44 -!- samira [n=zoya153@85.198.35.4] has left #lisp 17:40:44 once aquamacs got fast enough to keep up with my typing, I settled on it and didn't revisit the issue. 17:43:00 dlowe: I know how you feel. 17:43:05 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 17:43:25 I couldn't believe that a 1.67ghz risc machine with a gig and half of ram couldn't keep up with my typing. it was like being dropped into 1977. 17:43:58 Fade: emacs-app from the trunk (the nextstep version) 17:45:18 Fade: I really haven't noticed any problems with carbon emacs.... been using it for about 2 years. athough my maximum speed is about 100wpm 17:46:06 rumbleca: the effect was porportionate to the size of the buffer. 17:47:02 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:47:14 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:31 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:49:20 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-bdc4af68f8e720df] has joined #lisp 17:50:28 wmaikon [n=wmaikon@201-34-159-113.jvece702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:51:06 slyrus_: anyhow, try it with emacs in X and aquamacs. 17:51:10 -!- sulo [n=sulo@stgt-5d84593e.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:51:31 although it sounds like the behaviour you're seeing is more serious than redisplay overload. 17:52:56 -!- KalifG [n=user@32.176.123.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:55:09 simard [n=simard@modemcable234.226-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:55:10 Fade: in some cases, its taking 20 to 30 seconds to compile a single definition 17:55:23 there's something definitely wrong there. 17:55:49 i don't have an osx box near, but I just compiled mcclim and all deps in bout 5 minutes. 17:56:00 under slime, but on linux. 18:02:18 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:02:30 toon [i=tverwaes@igwe11.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 18:02:49 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:02:53 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:47 sellout- [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:56 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:18 arwed [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 18:07:03 sellout-_ [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:28 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:07:29 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:15 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1CABF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["quit"] 18:08:37 -!- dtulig [n=user@cpe-72-179-46-14.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:09:59 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:10:18 when I declare (in-package :foo) at the beginning of a file and then (defgeneric push ...) shouldn't the push generic only be declared in the :foo namespace? Somehow this interferes with a push function/macro allready declared 18:10:26 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 18:11:19 clhs push 18:11:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_push.htm 18:12:22 so is it not allowed to declar your own push in your own package? 18:12:34 allowed 18:12:50 do you use :cl? 18:12:59 yeah 18:13:18 I see, if I was only in :foo it would work 18:13:22 well, the cl use is coming into your package. 18:13:32 er, push 18:13:41 clhs shadow 18:13:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_shadow.htm 18:13:54 clhs defpackage 18:13:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpkg.htm 18:14:40 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:14:47 shadowing a name from the CL package is rarely a good idea unless you actually intend the function to be related. 18:15:49 well, I have something like a widget type that can hold other widgets. I wanted to create a push function that pushes windgets into a parent, but I could also call it differently 18:17:14 push-widget sounds good to me 18:17:58 well, I'll just leave the old name add-to-cells. Thanks for your help! 18:18:32 i like that even more! :) 18:20:04 dtulig [n=user@204.57.75.120] has joined #lisp 18:20:13 my widgets are called cells for some reason I don't really know 18:20:40 homage to Kenny? 18:21:02 stassats: which kenny? 18:21:10 -!- sellout- [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:21:18 Tilton 18:22:22 that was my thought. 18:23:21 not cociously 18:23:27 conciously 18:23:47 segv [n=mb@p4FC1CABF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:32 sulo [n=sulo@p57B4B5B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:26:56 is cello dead? 18:29:23 hunchentoot1.0.0 don't support mod_lisp any more. mod_proxy is faster than mod_lisp? 18:30:52 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 18:31:18 reverse proxy /w hunchentoot seems to be the consensus configuration. 18:31:36 I think mod_proxy will support persistent connections to the backend these days 18:31:47 so it's about as fast as anything, really 18:32:48 Fade: dan_b: thanks for the info 18:33:17 serving a 17k gif from araenida->mod_proxy on my test box was 360k/second, serving the same gif directly from apache on the same hardware was 420k/s 18:34:01 why you'd use lisp to serve a 17k gif anyway, I don't know, but it's exactly what I've been doing for the past, um, ten years 18:35:02 when I say "hardware" it's actually a xen instance, but that's by the by 18:37:35 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:46:07 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@2002:8d4c:3001:48:216:d3ff:feb0:58e0] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:46:44 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:48:40 -!- pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:48:55 pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:12 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 18:51:21 -!- wmaikon [n=wmaikon@201-34-159-113.jvece702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [No route to host] 18:51:31 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:53:11 -!- dcjackson [n=dcj@dcjmacbookpro.clark-communications.com] has quit [] 18:54:23 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:17 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:56:23 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 19:00:07 -!- deliana [n=deliana@ABordeaux-158-1-136-212.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:01:51 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 19:02:47 pjb [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:59 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:03:26 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-5.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:29 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:08:29 -!- TDT [n=TDT@191.16.63.69.dyn.southslope.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:14:07 lisup [n=irc@athedsl-4527109.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:14:29 Hello, I have a question about CLOS. http://www.ravenbrook.com/doc/2003/07/15/clos-fundamentals/ 19:14:59 Go to 3.5 Slots. I don't understand, why the CL-USER 33 doesn't modify the y slot 19:15:11 TDT [n=TDT@191.16.63.69.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:30 since he setf's its accessor to 999... ie (setf (accessor-y obj) val 19:15:42 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:15:48 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:16:22 <_death> lisup: it's not the same instance 19:16:24 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 19:16:50 It changes the slot of temp, in 34 it shows the slot of my-daft-point. 19:17:06 :allocation :class only has Z slot 19:17:44 And that's the point of the exercise, to show that :allocation :class means there's only one slot for all the instances: the z slot is shared amongst all the instances. 19:17:49 this example shows difference between class and instance allocation 19:20:10 _death: yes, that's what I thought at first 19:20:18 but he /does/ modify the z slot that way 19:20:33 Yes, because there's only one z for all these instances. 19:20:51 That's what :allocation :class means. 19:21:06 -!- TDT [n=TDT@191.16.63.69.dyn.southslope.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:21:12 so that's shared state? 19:21:16 Yes. 19:21:27 alright thanks... should had read more carefully 19:22:07 and by that I mean both the IRC and that page ;-) 19:23:23 jfrancis__ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has joined #lisp 19:25:06 mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:51 dcjackson [n=dcj@32.177.13.224] has joined #lisp 19:26:43 -!- simard [n=simard@modemcable234.226-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:27:24 -!- mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:28:49 TDT [n=TDT@191.16.63.69.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:01 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:33:34 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:34:38 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.139.18] has joined #lisp 19:35:11 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:35:14 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 19:35:40 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:45 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-207.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 19:39:44 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:42:08 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 19:44:45 -!- jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@66.194.68.209] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:45:40 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:02 -!- jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:54:27 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 19:56:15 -!- sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:56:21 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-147-103.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:57:33 sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:04:36 jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:41 -!- dcjackson [n=dcj@32.177.13.224] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:06:05 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-145-79.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:06:19 uroboros [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 20:07:08 -!- uroboros [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 20:07:16 uroboros [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 20:14:48 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 20:15:05 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:15:07 hugod annotated #76827 "Output has xmlns on every element" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76827#2 20:15:50 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-5.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:16:44 -!- uroboros [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 20:16:49 mjf [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 20:20:13 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 20:20:14 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:20:48 -!- arwed [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:29:03 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.228] has joined #lisp 20:29:50 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:59 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:37 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:32:04 -!- lisup [n=irc@athedsl-4527109.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["bye"] 20:33:48 tkb [n=Miranda@64.181.108.84] has joined #lisp 20:34:08 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:34:31 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:35:09 -!- Malbolgne [n=baal@h49n2fls303o885.telia.com] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 20:35:37 karma [n=karma@62.140.250.221] has joined #lisp 20:35:40 -!- karma is now known as karma_ 20:36:05 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:36:07 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 20:39:48 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.8] has joined #lisp 20:46:04 -!- tkb [n=Miranda@64.181.108.84] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 20:49:49 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:51:58 egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has joined #lisp 20:52:25 hi, I'm grabbing a timestamp (2006-08-24 00:00:00) with postmodern and it's giving me (3425846400) 20:52:31 any idea how that converts? it's not epoch 20:53:03 clhs decode-universal-time 20:53:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_dec_un.htm 20:53:25 stassats: thanks 20:53:39 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250013.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:53:43 though, it return not 2006 for me 20:53:45 wmaikon [n=wmaikon@201-34-159-113.jvece702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:53:58 stassats: yeah, but, erh, no. 20:56:29 baffg [n=htump@c-69-254-138-249.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:29 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:57:07 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-63-83.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:59:05 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:02:21 josemanuel [n=josemanu@75.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:02:25 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 21:06:57 c|mell [n=cmell@x250017.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:07:41 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:09:34 -!- baffg [n=htump@c-69-254-138-249.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:10:09 asn [n=fafa@gentoo/developer/asn] has joined #lisp 21:10:20 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:10:49 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@75.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 21:13:38 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has quit [] 21:13:47 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:15:30 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.139.18] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:19:01 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 21:20:05 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:20:37 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 21:20:48 Greetings! 21:23:08 baffg [n=htump@c-69-254-138-249.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:55 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 21:27:05 With sbcl, if I need to multiple-value-set (a b) in order to setf b and I don't care for a, I can (declare (ignore a)), but then sbcl warns: setting an ignored variable.... rather, such a variable should be declared ignorable? 21:27:25 As in, I setf but never use a, but want to get rid of the warning.. 21:28:29 maybe (setf b (nth-value 1 (values 1 2)))? 21:28:53 Thanks. 21:28:57 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:29:12 But more generally, what's the proper declaration for something I want to setf but never use? 21:29:29 What's wrong with (multiple-value-bind (nil b) (values 1 2)) 21:29:34 ignorable should do 21:29:40 tmh: it wouldn't work 21:30:01 deego: there isn't any in standard CL, nor in SBCL. 21:30:08 stassats: yes, it works, thanks. (I'd just been wondering if I was missing some more proper declaration. ) 21:31:00 stassats: Sorry, I meant (multiple-value-bind (* b) (values 1 2)) 21:31:55 tmh: where is difference between * and a? 21:32:01 -!- baffg [n=htump@c-69-254-138-249.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:32:29 stassats: The difference is that it doesn't complain about unused variables with * 21:32:49 tmh: only by chance 21:32:57 tmh: that's because * is a special variable and the compiler isn't smart enough to detect it still isn't used. 21:32:58 * is a special variable 21:33:52 masking * seems a little weird 21:33:58 -!- jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:33:58 with m-v-b ignore would work, with (setf (values ...)) ignorable 21:34:35 (and possibly prone to breaking things if done in a macro) 21:34:51 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:35:18 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:36:53 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:20 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 21:38:38 Well, now I'm trying to remember where I saw that and wondering if it really is a problem. 21:39:08 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:40:28 Bah, it's not worth figuring out, just (declare (ignore a)). 21:44:34 -!- sellout-_ [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:44:57 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D9D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:19 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:10 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D9D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 21:50:50 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:44 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:44 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:52:56 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:02 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:55:31 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:57:26 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-239.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:58:15 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:12 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:03:53 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D7E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:05:13 -!- dtulig [n=user@204.57.75.120] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:07:36 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.228] has quit ["Leaving..."] 22:11:28 slyrus__: I'm seeing the same thing on my powerbook /w sbcl and slime, both fresh checkouts. 22:13:44 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 22:16:35 wchogg [n=wchogg@96-42-44-111.dhcp.eucl-nbb.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:42 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.8] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:17:15 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 22:17:27 mmondor [n=mmondor@ip216-239-89-191.vif.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:33 I wonder if itasoftware's QPX search engine uses a proprietary lisp or if they use someone elses 22:17:39 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.17] has joined #lisp 22:17:48 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 22:18:17 voidengineer: sbcl / ccl 22:18:33 cool 22:19:03 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:19:17 afair, sbcl for qpx, ccl for something different 22:19:18 they're not using allegro anymore? 22:23:03 kwertii [n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:14 -!- deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has quit ["ERC Version 5.1.4 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:23:38 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:23:49 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 22:24:01 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 22:27:22 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:27:54 benny99 [n=bebenny@p5486D332.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:06 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@96-42-44-111.dhcp.eucl-nbb.wi.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:34:32 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:36:18 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:37:55 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:38 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:40:31 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:41:00 are there any schools these days using lisp to teach comp sci? 22:41:12 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-50.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:41:51 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 22:42:33 dcjackson [n=dcj@170.170.59.133] has joined #lisp 22:44:25 not that I am aware of. and I can count on 1 hand the number of commercial companies I've run across that use it (in SF, the world center of IT.) I'm sure there are more that I don't know about, but the numbers aren't encouraging 22:45:01 people are still retarded about CL 22:45:05 voidengineer: the Polytechnic of Milan does, the university of Bordeaux too 22:45:10 to many ((( ))) 22:45:31 fenix: yeah, but they're not in the world centre of IT so they don't count 22:45:33 the syntax isn't the best, but it's the only way it can be :/ 22:45:33 voidengineer *dons flameproof suit* there might be some tiny issues with CL that impede its wider acceptance. I'm hopeful for Clojure. 22:45:48 guaqua, I think the syntax IS the best 22:46:10 voidengineer: our university uses it only for AI classes 22:46:20 dan_b: ?? 22:46:22 deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has joined #lisp 22:46:24 voidengineer: our university uses it only for the AI class -> fixed 22:46:28 well, tbh I'm thinking about going back to school 22:46:34 -!- schmx [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 22:46:35 but I'll be damned if I touch java again 22:46:37 there are many ways in which cl is not the absolute best it ever could be, but none of them impede its wider acceptance 22:47:00 dan_b: obviously SOMEthing impedes its wider acceptance. and it's not all extrinsic factors. 22:47:14 voidengineer: it can, off course be argued. and it's a long road. basically it doesn't "discriminate", but also it doesn't emphasize anything 22:47:18 what impedes its wider acceptance is that there is no current platform it's a natural fit for as systems programming language or scritping language 22:47:43 impedance mismatch, you might say 22:48:22 dan_b: it's in between :) 22:48:31 dan_b: yes, that's one thing. another is a severe lack of (easy to use, well documented, and maintained) libraries. another is the *strengthens flameproof suit* rather haughty and condescending attitude of a lot of the community that drives away new blood. Nobody here, I'm sure, falls into that category... 22:48:34 no, it's neither 22:48:38 i've thought along those lines myself, too 22:48:59 the libraries issue doesn't seem to have stopped ruby rising to prominence 22:49:05 kwertii: there's clbuild ;) 22:49:05 dan_b, right 22:49:21 I think it's the parenthesis tbh 22:49:24 most of the issues people cite as showstoppers are in honesty more like excuses 22:49:27 lol 22:49:41 not only that but I think people are scared of the code 22:49:42 liek people who say "but there are no showers at work" to justify not commuting by bike 22:49:59 dan_b: Ruby comes with a huge builtin and well documented standard library. CL can't even split a string or open a socket without installing an external (and usually minimally documented and maintained) library. 22:50:11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeAdryYZ7ak 22:50:20 seibel talks about this very thing there 22:50:22 ever tried doing unicode in ruby? 22:50:24 I'm not scared of code, but I shouldn't have to spend 20 minutes deciphering uncommented code to open a TCP socket. I should look at the API ref and just do it. 22:50:28 -!- manic12_ [n=manic12@c-24-14-239-25.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:50:44 oh, again those "no sockets in cl" talks 22:50:51 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f49b9.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:50:57 there's no sockets in C either 22:50:58 lol 22:51:27 stassats, I wrote socket code after only knowing CL for 3 months and it was the first time I even attempted that sort of code 22:51:31 so it can't be that bad 22:51:31 dan_b: and I don't use C, either :) C at least has a large, robust, and maintained widely accepted GPL standard library 22:51:35 choosing a sockets lib for cl is still less work than choosing a templating library for perl 22:51:44 doesn't stop peopel using perl 22:52:29 kwertii: I see you're excluding the *BSD people there 22:52:45 not to mention the linux people 22:52:59 fe[nl]ix: I have a BSD machine. glibc, etc run just fine on it 22:53:03 unless gnu libc changed its livence quite radically when I wasn't looking 22:53:13 -!- benny99 [n=bebenny@p5486D332.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:53:49 it still seems to be under lgpl 22:53:57 oh good 22:54:42 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless85.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:55:36 the glibc/linux sockets functions are only another implementation of standard BSD sockets API (and now POSIX) afterall :) 22:55:58 I have tried several times to float CL as the dev platform while the engineering lead on commercial projects. it was always rejected because "nobody but you will be able to maintain it" 22:55:59 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:56:14 kwertii, that's silly 22:56:29 I imagine a professional dev would be able to learn CL in a month or two 22:56:32 a valid point unless you can get team buying to learn the language 22:56:55 but nothing to do with whether the string-splitting function is documented 22:57:24 voidengineer: I agree, in a purist sense, but in another sense, they are right. they don't want to pay someone to sit there for two months reading about CL. they don't have that kind of cash (small companies). they want to hire someone off the street who can jump in and immediately start productive work with no lagtime. And there just aren't that many Lisp coders clamoring for jobs. 22:57:31 kwertii: then they wouldn't be able to fire you 22:57:39 and the ones who are are much more expensive than a generic Ruby/Java instacoder 22:57:47 (SPLIT-SEQUENCE is, iirc, documented so precisely it would be X-rated if only they were naught words) 22:57:52 stassats: haha. I think that is precisely what they were trying to avoid. 22:57:55 s/naught/naughty/ 22:58:05 dan_b, ROFL 22:58:18 dan_b: and not part of CL. it's an addon library... 22:58:41 kwertii: so what ? 22:58:46 exactly 22:58:50 so what? as we've already said, sockets in C are an add-on library 22:59:11 and for that matter, Data::DUmper in perl, which is the bare minimum necessary to make coding in it palatable 22:59:13 they are still considered de facto part of the language 22:59:14 what isn't an addon in C? 22:59:38 fe[nl]ix: see above, I talked about this already. there is no std library. you shouldn't have to go hunting on the internet for a way to split a string, then download and install external code. you should be able to spend 10 seconds looking at the standard lib API docs. All this knowledge of "oh, this is a de facto part of the language" is lore, not written down anywhere. It makes the curve far too steep. 22:59:39 voidengineer: arrays 22:59:45 there isn't such a "sense" with common lisp as there is with c. it could be the education 22:59:46 for and while 22:59:47 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-099-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:59:48 lol 22:59:59 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-117-50.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 23:00:11 if it's de facto part of the language, that's great, make it a real part of the language. I think this exact topic is a huge barrier to wider use of CL. 23:00:14 you can also write a spliting function in a few minutes 23:00:37 honestly, in a commercial team I really can;t see it unless thwe ehole team is learning the language at once 23:00:52 what you do is, you ask your colleague or team lead how to split a string, and they tell you 23:00:53 mmondor: time is money, esp. at a small shop. 23:00:57 mmondor, or you could just cut and past the split-sequence code into your file if you don't want to be bothered with packages 23:01:05 sure 23:01:29 dan_b: that's what I'm getting at. at the places I've worked and contracted, NOBODY knows CL. half of them have never even heard of Lisp. 23:01:38 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:39 or maybe it's just the size of the community and the user base. there are millions of school-educated c programmers and then maybe hundreds or thousands of self-taught lispers 23:01:41 dan_b: given that situation, this lore-based knowledge is a barrier. 23:02:07 that's what I was trying to say. I think people have heard of CL in passing 23:02:17 and are intimidated with it 23:02:26 s/with/by 23:02:58 sure, but it's still not an immovable barrier any more than Makefile syntax stops anyone from using C 23:03:14 how about googleability? 23:03:15 dan_b: oh, I agree. it could be fixed. someone could make a standard library for CL 23:03:24 dan_b, it almost stopped me, lol 23:03:29 people reject CL because they don't see its advantages, they just use the disadvantages as rationalisations 23:03:32 can simple practical problems be solved by gogling? 23:03:47 in c, pretty much yes. how about common lisp? 23:04:07 dan_b: but there seems to be very little momentum to do that. I agree that they don't grasp the advantages, usually, and the practical considerations of the disadvantages are in that case enough to warrant outright rejection of the language. People are very risk-avoidant, particularly businesspeople. 23:04:14 guaqua: by #lisp'ing 23:04:47 kwertii, exactly 23:04:49 stassats: many #lisp'ers are *ahem* lacking in social skills. Present company excluded, of course. Noobs get their heads bitten off as often as they get a helpful answer. 23:04:54 stassats: you get bashed for not rtfm'ing :( 23:05:03 that's why they need to have a Lisp conference in SF and make it free 23:05:41 -!- dcjackson [n=dcj@170.170.59.133] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:05:42 guaqua: no, if you can ask intelligent questions 23:05:54 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 23:05:55 questions like, what's the opposite of split-sequence are really simple when you think of it (format?) but not obvious at all for a beginner 23:06:05 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 23:06:12 this for strings.. 23:06:48 <_death> oh, it's that time of the month 23:06:53 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:28 baffg [n=htump@c-69-254-138-249.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:31 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-177.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:08:07 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:08:19 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 23:10:37 "Google Oriented Programming", one of the few paradigms CL does not support. 23:10:52 heh 23:10:56 lol 23:11:26 although it has excellent support for a large subset .. Google Groups Oriented Programming. 23:11:34 just write a new mop layer 23:12:03 mop being an alias for bullshit 23:12:18 -!- jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:13:00 like act like you know a whole lot about a whole lot computer-sciency 23:13:19 (funcall (make-instance 'google :q "How do i split a string" :data "This is a test") #\Space) => '("This" "is" "a" "test") 23:13:27 i dunno, have you ever tried google for javascript problems? it's utter rubbish 23:13:42 what you get are a billion pages where other peopel ave asked the same quest6ion 23:13:52 most "js programmers" just cut and paste code in web pages :) 23:13:53 with answers that don't work written by people who don#t speak english 23:14:36 the correspondences of indians when googling for java problems :S 23:14:43 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 23:14:46 actually, a useful addition to google would be a mode that removes "web forums" from the search pool 23:14:57 dan_b: this would be nice indeed 23:15:02 dcjackson [n=dcj@dcjmacbookpro.clark-communications.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:02 *drewc* nods 23:15:40 also a similar option to filter out blog sites 23:15:47 also, a mode that removes the 50 million spam sites that mirror technical mailing lists and put ads all over them 23:16:00 and while I'm at it, any site that claims to offer reviews but that actually has "be the first to review this" on every single page/project ... 23:16:14 haha 23:16:21 I'm not sure a simple technical fix will suffice there, though, what they really need is a brick through the office window 23:16:34 how about those wanting you to pay to obtain the answer to a faq :) 23:16:34 where do Lisp people meet at? Usenet? A particular forum? 23:16:39 dan_b: saw a study about that very topic in (I think) the Economist this week. apparently, reviews need a critical mass of ca. 20-30 reviews or so before people begin to care about them 23:16:52 the funny thing is, ruby is documented in blogs. not even the changelog has the stuff they did with the VM 23:17:27 used to be usenet, though I wasn't so impressed with c.l.l last time I dipped back in 23:17:35 too much masturbation 23:17:37 konr: #lisp'ers tend to meet in #lisp .. comp.lang.lisp has another bunch of people who sometimes lisp... 23:17:42 konr: at annual conferences 23:18:12 or monthly user group meetings. lispvan ftw! 23:18:28 drewc, I think those are great 23:18:34 konr: http://www.european-lisp-symposium.org 23:18:41 linux user groups were great for linux adoption 23:18:57 I think it's possible to do that with lisp in cities with Universities 23:19:07 screw adoption .. it's a great place to drink beer and talk lisp! 23:19:11 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.17] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:19:22 this is neat: http://code.google.com/p/dissy/ 23:19:41 drewc: here here 23:19:48 popularity is not an end to itself, but booze, otoh... 23:19:59 at my local linux user group beer is prohibited now :( 23:20:31 un-popularity might be something to grasp for ;) 23:20:32 stassats: wow... why? 23:20:40 stassats: then bring wine :D 23:20:49 stassats: underage audience? 23:21:15 I mean, what the hell... beer is and has been the main driving force of OSS development. 23:21:16 asn: i don't know for sure, perhaps someone got drunk and screwed something 23:21:28 stassats: i'd start a local beer user group that happens to meet after the linux one in a nearby pub. 23:21:34 heh 23:21:49 nacho's might also be a topic of discussion. 23:21:50 josemanuel [n=josemanu@75.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 23:21:53 erk 23:21:56 s/'// 23:22:11 drewc: that's usually what happened after them 23:22:59 M-%'y 23:23:09 too many RETS 23:23:20 sed is easier. ;) 23:23:23 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:23:30 geeks 23:24:03 since getting a g1 and unlimited data plan I can now get drunk and break things before I actually leave the pub 23:24:20 (substitute #\y #\' string :count 1) 23:24:38 will the g1 route it's network connection to a laptop? 23:24:43 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:25:31 stassats: we used to organize weekly *nix events in my University 23:25:35 tethering? if you can hack root on it (easy on early firmware versions) 23:25:38 after each event we went to a local pub 23:25:50 i'm going to get a nokia n800 and stick with my $60 cell phones, because i almost cried when the $400 phone went to davey jones. 23:25:57 we usually had n*2 people on the pub, where n is the number of people that we had in the main event 23:26:05 not officially supported, as the "unlimited" data doesn't permit that use 23:26:27 *nod* 23:26:45 drew: I spent a long time with cheap phone + separate pda, but in the end the lure of only carrying a single box was too great 23:27:11 *asn* rolleyes at his cheapy dead-old Nokia pile of shit 23:27:12 but can it run lisp? 23:27:13 no android phones in canada yet. the data plans up here are hilariously bad. 23:27:14 if I'm out cycling or skating or something I can do without the extra weight and batteries 23:27:39 void: the g1? it's an arm, it can run debian 23:27:45 I assume clisp will be happy 23:27:50 oh, nice 23:28:27 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has quit ["dew on the telephone lines"] 23:29:28 once you go over your basic data limit (3GB, I think) rogers charges $1 per megabyte. 23:29:33 asn: we have quite a lot people attending meetings, no pubs could hold 2*n people 23:30:30 Aw well, what I wanted to say is that basically alcohol consumption was the main event in the end, although we had quite interesting lectures before that. 23:30:50 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@75.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 23:30:52 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:31:53 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:32:55 sadly, no lisp user group in my city 23:33:17 same here 23:33:53 there is even haskell user group 23:34:00 that is not a hard problem to solve though .. 23:37:15 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:38:39 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:11 -!- baffg [n=htump@c-69-254-138-249.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:39:12 lol haskell 23:41:34 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["OR aš fikta"] 23:42:44 it isn't a user group, it's a support group. 23:42:58 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:07 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:43:20 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:24 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:43:33 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:51 where people sit in circles and tell how they are living without side-effects? 23:45:01 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:45:06 I'm and I'm a Haskell programmer. 23:45:30 "point of order." "uh, OK?" "is... is this a stateful meeting? Are we side-effecting?" 23:48:01 hmm. is an unchristened haskell programmer living both in a state of sin and a sin of state? 23:50:06 -!- addled [n=adl@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:50:09 addled [n=adl@19.Red-83-38-55.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:13 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:45 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-147-103.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:52:42 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087F593.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:53:03 I'd like a user group in my region too 23:53:45 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-190-201.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:55:42 grnman [i=grnman@shell.thehostbusters.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:21 What is "Let Over Lambda" about? Has anyone read it? 23:58:07 it's about macros. 23:58:13 konr - the first four chapters are online at the website; the first section frames it well -- look for the part about 'stylistic aphorisms'.