00:05:21 dunno 00:09:51 TDT_ [n=TDT@191.16.63.69.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:40 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:10:56 where's the book by gigamonkey? 00:11:19 i thought it would be in the topic 00:11:27 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087B5D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:11:31 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 00:13:53 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:16:19 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:17:06 Ilie [i=NuMaStre@93.112.65.249] has joined #lisp 00:17:26 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483D724.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:18:19 -!- dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:18:59 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 00:23:19 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:19 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:23:30 I just googled "gigamonkey book" sans quotes and that was the first result, emma 00:24:43 S11001001: looks like you thought of an efficient way to find it too then! 00:25:14 alt: turn around to my nightstand bookshelf and pull it out from there 00:25:58 -!- TDT [n=TDT@96.63.32.207.dyn.southslope.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:28:13 msingh [n=user@203.171.123.8.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:32:41 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:34:34 matley [n=matley@93.68.38.71] has joined #lisp 00:35:38 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:36:07 voidengineer [n=Stephen@75.139.179.172] has joined #lisp 00:36:12 -!- danlei`` [n=user@pD9E2C6BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:37:06 tritchey [n=tritchey@64.241.37.140] has joined #lisp 00:37:59 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has left #lisp 00:37:59 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:55 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has left #lisp 00:43:49 If anyone cares, I still google "lisp tutorial" for PCL. 00:44:12 -!- jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:46:31 -!- phf [n=phf@c-98-231-211-226.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 00:47:09 vostibackle pasted "each-slice" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76733 00:47:49 -!- topitop [n=root@87.223.39.79] has quit [] 00:48:17 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:47 matley- [n=matley@93.68.36.150] has joined #lisp 00:48:54 vostibackle: why not document what the code is meant to do? 00:50:28 <_3b> probably shouldn't evaluate list multiple times in the expansion 00:50:49 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:50:58 that's why I put listvar in there 00:51:02 that didn't fix it? 00:51:14 <_3b> you evaluate it again when you calculate length 00:51:29 oh, whoops 00:52:14 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 00:52:25 vostibackle annotated #76733 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76733#1 00:52:31 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:52:36 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:39 -!- bombshelter13 is now known as bombshelter13_ 00:52:39 <_3b> see for example alexandria:once-only (or some other implementation of once-only) for a common idiom for handling that problem 00:52:56 ah, I have a once-only from PCL 00:53:09 paste.lisp.org seems to screw my indentation up :( 00:53:19 <_3b> you use tabs 00:53:27 oh my 00:53:34 I hate tabs 00:53:53 guess I never turned them off in emacs 00:55:28 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@64.241.37.140] has quit [] 00:56:50 for slicing: (loop with length = (length list) for i below length by n do (print (subseq list i (min (+ i n) length)))) 00:56:56 -!- Ilie [i=NuMaStre@93.112.65.249] has quit [] 00:56:59 wow 00:57:03 I should learn loop 00:57:34 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has quit [Success] 00:58:00 <_3b> be careful with LOOP inside macros though, at least for code that others might use 00:58:22 <_3b> (if you break your own code, then it just gives you an excuse to learn why you cshould have been careful :) 00:58:25 How can one check to find out if a function exists with the name given by a string? 00:58:40 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 00:58:44 e.g. (magick "+") ==> t (magick "lkdljdlkdlj") ==> nil 00:59:12 <_3b> metasyntax: loop through all packages, then look at all the ysmbols in the packages, see if they are fbound, then compare to the string? 00:59:25 _3b: erm 00:59:47 _3b: why all packages? 01:00:13 and why iterate over all symbols? 01:00:30 <_3b> i guess find-symbol might be better than iterating over the symbols 01:00:58 metasyntax: clhs fdefinition 01:01:01 <_3b> still need to check all packages given the problem as specified 01:01:02 erf 01:01:07 clhs fdefinition 01:01:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fdefin.htm 01:01:15 clhs find-symbol 01:01:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_find_s.htm 01:01:46 I guess fbound would be better than fdefinition for you in fact... 01:02:30 vinleod [n=Vincent_@63.229.138.226] has joined #lisp 01:02:32 stassats: I guess you could want to iterate over all the package if you want to look for a non-exported function or a function in another package... 01:02:48 <_3b> actually, fbound is true for macros and special operators, you need to filter those out by hand 01:02:54 fboundp and fdefinition both require symbols, which would be alright 01:03:19 except that leads to a second question: how to convert a symbol to a string correctly? 01:03:32 clhs symbol-name 01:03:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_symb_2.htm 01:03:34 (make-symbol "+") ==> #:+ [in clisp at least] 01:03:51 <_3b> if you mean strings to symbols, you need to specify which symbol you want 01:03:56 so, string to a symbol? 01:04:09 <_3b> make-symbol makes a new symbol, which won't name a function 01:04:10 find-symbol, as you was already told 01:05:01 <_3b> do you only want a function visible in the current package? exported from any package? present in any package? 01:05:14 <_3b> exported/present in some specific package? 01:05:19 stassats: find-symbol does what I want, thanks. Sorry I missed that earlier. 01:05:42 *metasyntax* is a bit of a noob, but we're working on it :) 01:06:31 <_3b> after (defpackage foo) (defun foo::lkjhlkjh () ), should (magick "lkjhlkjh") be true? 01:07:08 (defun magick (name &optional (package *package*)) (let ((symbol (find-symbol name package))) (and symbol (fboundp symbol) (functionp (symbol-function symbol))))) 01:07:12 <_3b> also, don't forget to adjust for reader case 01:08:04 _3b: what do you mean? 01:08:11 <_3b> metasyntax: which part? 01:08:23 adjusting for reader case 01:08:26 (defun all-magick (name) (some #'(lambda (x) (magick name x)) (list-all-packages))) 01:08:33 <_3b> (symbol-name 'foo) -> "FOO" 01:08:35 -!- matley [n=matley@93.68.38.71] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:08:39 s/#'// 01:09:08 <_3b> so "foo" will not match 01:09:17 _3b: I don't need symbol-name right now, but I'll keep that in mind. 01:09:30 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has joined #lisp 01:10:11 <_3b> (find-symbol "if" (find-package :cl)) -> nil 01:10:26 <_3b> "IF" works though 01:11:08 (symbol-function (intern "+")) 01:11:08 01:11:25 it is already interned 01:11:44 Yeah ooops. 01:12:10 and you'll get an error if the function slot is empty 01:12:18 <_3b> or phrased differently, (fboundp (find-symbol "car")) -> NIL, (fboundp (find-symbol "CAR")) -> T 01:12:32 (ignore-errors (symbol-function (find-symbol "+"))) 01:12:32 01:12:41 That one seemed to work. 01:13:02 well, i don't think using ignore-errors is a good thing 01:13:12 Why? 01:13:44 _3b: ah, I see, you're right 01:13:45 it's like putting the dirt under the carpet 01:13:54 Well it isn't in this case. 01:13:55 because it's better not to do errors, than ignoring them 01:14:11 It turns symbol-function into a predicate here. 01:14:23 <_3b> is (functionp (symbol-function sym)) reliable for filtering out macros/special operators? 01:14:56 <_3b> (assuming that was the purpose in stassats' code) 01:14:56 _3b: it's reliable for filtering bad boys, who put some nonsense into function slot 01:15:38 (functionp (ignore-errors (symbol-function (find-symbol "+")))) 01:15:38 01:15:48 3b yes. 01:15:51 <_3b> ah, guess that would be useful to do as well :) 01:16:22 <_3b> rukubites: does clhs say that somewhere? 01:16:55 _3b - I tried the above with "DO" and it returned nil due to special operator. This is in ACL. 01:16:57 <_3b> SBCL for example puts functions in function slots of macros 01:17:26 Anyway back to IRL lisp coding. Postmodern awaits. 01:17:26 <_3b> returns T in sbcl for DO and IF 01:17:36 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A612.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:17:41 -!- rukubites [n=user@d58-110-103-122.mas6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:18:20 _3b: returns T in clisp as well 01:19:16 <_3b> then there is the question of (flet ((foo ())) (magick "FOO")) 01:19:26 *stassats* grumbling 01:19:36 you can use (macro-function symbol) to find out if it is macro 01:20:21 (and symbol (fboundp symbol) (not (macro-function symbol) (special-operator-p symbol) (functionp (symbol-function symbol)))) 01:20:26 <_3b> yeah, macro-function and special-operator-p to filter out the valid non-functions 01:20:34 (not (special ..)) 01:20:45 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:21:10 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:21:14 <_3b> that sounds about right 01:21:20 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 01:21:39 <_3b> (assuming the flet case is irrelevant, which it probably is) 01:21:50 functions are hard, let's go sleeping 01:22:49 Yes, for my case it would be. 01:23:01 you can do (function ,symbol) instead 01:23:07 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:23:15 or (ignore-errors (function ,symbol)) 01:23:26 that will help you with flet 01:23:26 well, then you need a macro 01:24:12 yes, you are messing around with lexical bindings so you cannot do it just with a function 01:24:27 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:24:50 you cannot do (function ,symbol) nowhere, but in macros 01:25:14 yes, as i said you need a macro 01:25:15 well, you can do eval, but that's cheating 01:25:24 <_3b> for extra fun, (defmacro bleh()) (flet ((bleh ()) (magick "bleh"))) 01:25:26 no you cannot use eval to find out if something is flet 01:26:34 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:26:34 ilitirit: not because of lexical bindings, but because function doesn't evaluate its argument 01:26:35 <_3b> not sure you can completely resolve it without a code walker if you want to return true for flets 01:27:01 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:15 <_3b> can't think of any good reason to return true for flets though 01:27:32 nitpicking? 01:28:05 -!- eirik [i=eirikald@tvilling.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:28:11 eirik [i=eirikald@tvilling.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 01:28:13 joga_ [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 01:28:23 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-133-189.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:28:54 -!- guenther__ [n=guenther@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:28:57 <_3b> maybe with a macro that calls macroexpand or something 01:28:58 guenther__ [n=guenther@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 01:29:01 (macrolet ((bound-function-p (x) `(ignore-errors (function ,x)))) (flet ((func ())) (macrolet ((macro ())) (values (bound-function-p func) (bound-function-p macro))))) 01:29:23 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:24 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:29:38 what's the point of this anyway? 01:30:03 that is gibberish :( 01:31:02 <_3b> point was to demonstrate that the original problem was underspecified 01:31:36 <_3b> or to exercise our knowledge of the spec 01:32:03 <_3b> or maybe just to avoid actually working, not sure 01:32:42 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:34:03 *_3b* goes back to extracting closed-over binding scopes from within tagbodys with backwards jumps 01:34:25 _3b: well to be clear, this is an embedded language of sorts; I need to read a file and allow the user to specify a type of comparison function which I define, but they only specify half the name 01:34:31 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:46 So the user says "<" and I turn it into "version<". 01:34:51 should I read On Lisp or Common Lisp The Language over spring break? 01:35:10 Obviously I want it to be an error when they say "asdflkj" and "versionasdflkj" doesn't exist. 01:35:11 -!- toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-113-110.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:35:33 That was the origin of the original question, so the scope is somewhat (happily) limited. 01:35:45 Thanks all for the help though, it was enlightening. 01:35:46 toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-113-110.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:04 metasyntax, why not make a package containing all the symbols they're allowed to use 01:36:13 -!- matley- [n=matley@93.68.36.150] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:36:29 vostibackle: read PAIP 01:36:30 instead of concatenating strings to make symbols and then looking them up 01:37:17 ilitirit: I suppose that's a possibility. 01:37:55 defpackage is easy and its very clear . . . 01:40:06 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:40:06 -!- froog_ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:40:07 -!- Lain [n=Lain@c-71-224-213-131.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:40:07 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:40:48 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-133-189.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:53 benny` [n=benny@i577A0858.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:41:57 froog_ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 01:42:33 -!- manic12 [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:43:43 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ee39392a8b78a8c3] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:45:58 stassats: thanks, looks good 01:46:44 paip gives you loads of tricks for making old school lisp not run atrociously slowly 01:47:23 are those tricks useless with new school lisp? 01:51:59 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:52:38 not necessarily, but i'd say they were old school 01:52:54 -!- spec[afk] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["BB!"] 01:53:08 like the reuse-cons stuff with a double hashtable to avoid making a cons 01:53:39 I guess it would be good to understand all that low-level stuff anyway 01:53:46 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:53:58 is "choose-if" a standard part of Common Lisp? It's in CLtL but not GNU clisp 01:54:33 yes, didn't make it to ansi 01:54:39 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-2-100.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 01:54:45 i mean, no, it didn't make it to ansi 01:55:49 how can I know what parts are in CLtL but not ANSI? 01:56:52 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0B9B.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:57:07 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:02 check the hyperspec http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/Contents.htm 01:58:47 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-5.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:01 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-5.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:00:56 thanks 02:11:37 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-149-228.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:11:44 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-149-228.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 02:13:01 jso [n=user@host-170-156-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:27 stassats` 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[n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:37:33 funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:58 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@76.214.2.100] has joined #lisp 03:40:26 Good morning everyone. 03:44:35 -!- tetha [n=hk@pD9EE60B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:44:44 tetha [n=hk@pD9EE5F6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:56 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:47:02 -!- joel`` [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:49:13 -!- jso [n=user@host-170-156-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:51:49 agnel` [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has joined #lisp 03:52:34 Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 03:53:23 -!- agnel` [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:53:44 agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has joined #lisp 03:54:06 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:54:29 -!- agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has quit [Client Quit] 03:54:41 agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has joined #lisp 03:56:28 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:30 -!- agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:57:03 agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has joined #lisp 03:57:18 morning beach 03:58:27 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 03:58:42 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@76.214.2.100] has quit [] 03:59:01 appletizer [i=user@82.45.11.54] has joined #lisp 04:06:02 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:08:03 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 04:12:19 agnel` [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has joined #lisp 04:12:27 -!- agnel` [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has quit [Client Quit] 04:17:39 Hey slyrus. Haven't seen you for a while. Been busy? 04:20:07 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 04:21:57 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:22:23 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 04:24:04 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:31:31 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:32:23 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:42 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 04:36:58 -!- vinleod [n=Vincent_@63.229.138.226] has left #lisp 04:40:17 good morning, beach. 04:41:36 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:44:47 cads_ [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:28 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:46:59 Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 04:47:01 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:49:32 jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:16 beach: yeah, busy working, for the most part... 04:53:20 how are things? 04:55:40 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:56:40 slyrus: Well, Tuesday is my day from hell, but other than that, fine. 04:56:50 -!- lizao_ [n=liza@76.76.161.133] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:56:57 any exciting projects this semester? 04:57:11 liza0 [n=liza@76.76.162.10] has joined #lisp 04:57:12 Nah, going to Milan, then Vietnam. 04:57:24 sounds nice! 04:57:35 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:57:57 I'm sure it will be, yes. 04:58:42 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:59:08 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:59:28 -!- crod [n=cmell@y192004.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:59:40 Did hunchentoot change at all recently? 05:00:45 crod [n=cmell@x250055.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 05:01:10 I got clbuild, then pulled down hunchentoot, and it's behaving rather strange 05:01:11 global vars aren't there 05:02:09 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 05:02:09 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:35 what's wrong with (mapcon (lambda (x) x) '(1 2 3))? 05:07:02 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [K-lined] 05:07:24 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:26 I see that the correct way to do what I want is (mapcon #'list '(1 2 3)), but I don't understand why you have to call list instead of just the identity 05:08:31 oh, I see, (mapcon (lambda (&rest x) x) '(1 2 3)) 05:10:13 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-149-228.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 05:10:46 -!- froog_ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:12:09 vostibackle: what result did you expect the first time? 05:12:22 ((1 2 3) (2 3) (3)) 05:12:29 froog_ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 05:12:47 vostibackle: well, mapcon uses nconc, so you might have created some circular structure there. 05:12:56 oh, yes 05:13:09 I bet it's something like that 05:13:10 thanks 05:13:19 vostibackle: furthermore, you are probably modifying constant data when you are using a quoted list. 05:13:31 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-99.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 05:14:03 whoops 05:17:42 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 05:17:44 -!- Guest10058 is now known as pkhuong 05:19:19 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:19:33 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:20:19 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:27:03 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:27:31 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 05:33:30 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:35:51 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:37:23 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:38:25 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 05:41:39 -!- liza0 [n=liza@76.76.162.10] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:42:06 liza0 [n=liza@209.59.101.98] has joined #lisp 05:50:55 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 05:52:31 -!- joga_ is now known as joga 05:54:02 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:54:22 jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:54:32 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:10 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:58:25 - 05:59:05 Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 06:11:16 - 06:12:27 agnel: what are you trying to say? 06:12:55 sorry, was tweaking rcirc. 06:15:23 lizao_ [n=liza@76.76.163.142] has joined #lisp 06:15:31 -!- liza0 [n=liza@209.59.101.98] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:21:51 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 06:23:23 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 06:25:08 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:49 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:26:39 lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has joined #lisp 06:34:56 -!- agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:47:26 is there any news on David Margolies book? Seems like it was 3 years ago that I last checked to see if this book was finished 06:47:54 -!- toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-113-110.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:48:18 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 06:49:22 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:51:36 -!- bighouse [n=bighouse@bas1-montreal42-1178045690.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 06:51:51 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:52:00 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D72C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:06 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:52:47 -!- Maddas [n=Maddas@tardis-b23.ee.ethz.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:56:49 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 06:56:55 Good morning. 06:59:17 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 07:00:38 hello plage 07:00:41 Aratsu [n=nonposso@24.42.160.108] has joined #lisp 07:01:01 -!- arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:04:23 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@82.83.99.137] has joined #lisp 07:05:11 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:24 good 3AM! 07:05:44 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.166.169] has joined #lisp 07:06:30 *fusss* reminds of himself to ready up any demo apps by dumping a core with everything on it before hand 07:06:48 asdf weirdness almost embarrassed me tonight :-P 07:07:36 ASau [n=user@host9-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 07:13:54 -!- Aratsu [n=nonposso@24.42.160.108] has left #lisp 07:14:45 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D72C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:15:49 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 07:16:07 Aratsu [n=nonposso@24.42.160.108] has joined #lisp 07:16:27 -!- Aratsu [n=nonposso@24.42.160.108] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:17:25 Aratsu [n=nonposso@24.42.160.108] has joined #lisp 07:17:42 Pip [n=pip@unaffiliated/pip] has joined #lisp 07:18:07 hello, I have just updated slime, but it looks weird a bit compared to the old which was normal 07:18:33 the prompt symbol is an asterisk 07:18:52 you probably only have the inferior-lisp? 07:19:07 Let me check 07:19:32 does it say so in the buffer name? 07:19:47 yes, it's inferior-lisp 07:20:42 enable slime-fancy, (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)). 07:21:03 C-x b TAB *slime-repl TAB 07:21:03 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 07:21:05 So the configure file is changed ? 07:21:23 .emacs probably doesn't have the relevant lines 07:21:24 no, the default configuration changed. 07:21:34 that too :) 07:21:46 (setq inferior-lisp-program "/usr/bin/sbcl") 07:21:46 (add-to-list 'load-path "/opt/slime") 07:21:46 (require 'slime) 07:21:46 (slime-setup) 07:21:55 That's the old form 07:25:24 I'm reading the slime manual, but didn't see the newly updated configuration form 07:25:44 The manual might be outdated. 07:26:04 Pip: Always consult the manual from within the doc/ directory in your slime cvs checkout 07:26:13 I see 07:26:19 Pip: Just change (slime-setup) to (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) 07:27:54 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:28:03 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:28:21 -!- dmiles [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)"] 07:28:27 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:29:23 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:30:32 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:02 good morning 07:31:27 Morning 07:32:48 hello mvilleneuve 07:33:03 you are projected live in one of the rooms of the ENSEIRB 07:33:28 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 07:34:22 what does slime-asdf do ? 07:35:17 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:47 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:35:49 LostMonarch [n=roby@host9-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:36:34 -!- freelab [n=freelab@58.63.90.231] has quit ["My God! Gone..."] 07:36:41 plage: oh, celebrity already... 07:37:51 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:39:33 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:39:52 Thank you guys 07:40:14 morning lispers 07:41:44 mvilleneuve: well, they are not paying much attention, actually 07:41:48 hello kiuma 07:44:17 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:44:25 Well, that looks cooler, a colorful repl 07:45:27 freelab [n=freelab@58.63.90.231] has joined #lisp 07:48:07 g'day 07:48:54 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has joined #lisp 07:51:42 hello schmx 07:52:35 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:52:51 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:54:10 -!- Pip [n=pip@unaffiliated/pip] has left #lisp 07:54:20 splittist [n=dmurray@188-136.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:54:22 morning 07:54:24 Hello there plage. How's code? 07:57:33 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@188-136.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 07:58:42 schmx: no code at teh moment. I am teaching a Lisp-based course at the engineering school right now. You are projected live :) 08:00:21 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 08:00:39 weirdo [n=sthalik@c140-24.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:00:51 hey 08:01:14 something's wrong with my cvs on ubuntu, every time i 'cvs up', it sends loads of data to the other side 08:01:20 hello weirdo 08:01:33 clhs labels 08:01:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_flet_.htm 08:01:43 anyone knows how to alleviate this? cvsupping slime takes ages now 08:01:48 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 08:02:50 well, i'm dumb. i kinda' forgot to copy .cvsrc 08:03:21 The magic of #lisp. Pop a question and the answer comes to you (: 08:03:29 Hello 08:03:30 :-) 08:03:31 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:03:35 hello MrSpec 08:06:38 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["leaving"] 08:08:09 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:10:30 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:14:32 Ok it's M-x coffee RET 08:16:24 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:18:22 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 08:18:56 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 08:20:27 hey, does anyone remember that one fella who used to hang around here who programmed in forth a lot and was wanting to write a Lisp OS (not movitz)? 08:22:52 -!- jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:23:04 nyef, probably 08:23:09 yeah, him 08:23:13 I'm thinking nyef. 08:23:14 oh. 08:23:23 does he still frequent this channel? 08:23:25 impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE00236916024d-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:33 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0CF68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:24:22 Yes. 08:24:29 ok, that's good 08:25:09 Hmmm. though he seems to have gone missing for a day or two. 08:25:13 I haven't been around in 3 years or so and he's the one guy that stands out in my mind the most as the most friendly and active 08:26:07 (: 08:26:26 The bane of the lisp community. friendly people! 08:26:33 hehe 08:26:40 lots of friendly people actually 08:26:46 compared to others I know anyways 08:26:58 Indeed! 08:27:17 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.142.69] has joined #lisp 08:30:17 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:31:26 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:32:02 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:32:40 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:22 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 08:33:32 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 08:37:26 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:37:58 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:37:59 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:38 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:40:32 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:06 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 08:45:09 -!- voidengineer [n=Stephen@75.139.179.172] has quit [] 08:45:15 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-92-109.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 08:45:37 voidengineer [n=Stephen@75.139.179.172] has joined #lisp 08:45:44 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:46:06 Of those here who use sbcl, is it safe to assume most of those people use emacs+slime? 08:46:32 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 08:48:10 edmond [n=who_i_am@222.253.107.91] has joined #lisp 08:50:25 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:51:20 yes 08:52:59 <_8david`> except for jasko, of course 08:53:09 who uses what? 08:53:10 what's jasko use? 08:53:14 limp? 08:53:47 limp lol 08:54:00 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA62D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:54:11 voidengineer: AFAIK, nyef actually started writing a LispOS, including a forth bootloader 08:54:25 together with Xof and others 08:54:29 workthrick, that's where he left off in 2006 I thought 08:54:32 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 08:54:33 root [n=root@87.223.39.79] has joined #lisp 08:54:47 http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/notes.txt 08:54:47 workthrick, I thought they gave up on getting vim to talk to slime 08:55:01 -!- root is now known as Guest68296 08:55:07 voidengineer: I thought so too, but limp is apparently a newer approach 08:55:12 jasko wrote an eclipse plugin for sbcl 08:55:14 that, or I'm confused 08:55:17 cusp, I think it's called 08:55:23 yeah, cusp 08:55:24 Hmm. 08:55:51 m. 08:55:54 Im getting really sore hands using emacs. I wish emacs somehow had vim bindings. 08:56:04 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f49b9.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:56:13 *tic* uses Limp, being the author and all. 08:56:20 limp, eh 08:56:31 you'll get used to it 08:56:32 tic, how well is that working for you? 08:56:34 i was a vim user once too 08:56:34 voidengineer, half-assed attempt: http://mikael.jansson.be/journal/2009/01/lisp-argument-list-in-vim 08:56:56 jsoft_: there's viper and vimpulse, although the latter is buggy 08:57:09 viper is a major mode, is it? 08:57:17 *workthrick* is writing another vim-in-emacs, but it's nowhere near being usable yet 08:57:20 weirdo: no 08:57:24 global minor 08:57:37 voidengineer, somewhat. :) I need to fix it. The problem is that you can't *really* write Lisp in Vim, as native Vim functions must be written in VimScript. Which sucks. And you can't (from what I can tell) pass parameters from/to a vim function and Lisp. :| 08:57:46 voidengineer, that was for ECL-Vim, by the way. 08:58:16 yeah I see that 08:58:36 it would be nice to see this working spit spot ya know? 08:58:41 that way people would have a choice 08:58:46 mhm. 08:58:46 -!- cads_ [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 08:59:03 but I decided that this time around I'm just going to learn emacs 08:59:05 I'm not sure how to proceed though, because the function-issue is really a major drawback. 08:59:19 not sure if I'll ever get as good with it as I am with vim, but why not 08:59:26 voidengineer, yup, I'm thinking of re-implementing Vim in Climacs. 08:59:28 workthrick: viper-mode you mean? I found it horrible 08:59:45 that'd be cool 09:00:14 "just" need an ncurses backend for Climacs, first... 09:00:18 -!- freelab [n=freelab@58.63.90.231] has left #lisp 09:00:25 (and me learning McClim properly, but hey...) 09:00:38 I hate how I have to have my fingers on ctrl / alt all the damn time in emacs 09:00:47 lol 09:00:53 I do too 09:01:10 the guys in #emacs told me to remap C to caps lock 09:01:13 which should help 09:01:15 jsoft_: yeah, viper-mode 09:01:18 I already have. 09:01:19 it's pure vi 09:01:24 so it is kinda bleh 09:01:31 actually, the proper location of ctrl is to the left of space. 09:01:49 workthrick: Not that I found. I found it worked in some cases, others not 09:01:57 and vimpulse is buggy, and viper itself is a piece of horrible mess, so extending it is, IMHO, futile 09:02:08 Yeah. 09:02:08 jsoft_: didn't work in what sense? 09:02:12 <_8david`> So go and help with LIMP. 09:03:10 _8david`, Limp might unfortunately be a dead end, see my description of the function-issue above. 09:03:16 workthrick: well you still have to know pretty much all the emacs keys. Often you go to use it like vi and it just acts like emacs 09:03:25 Some bufers havce viper-mode on, others dont 09:03:55 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE00236916024d-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["leaving"] 09:04:03 there are settings to control that 09:04:04 There must be a way to do lisp without getting RSI 09:04:09 just learn to use emacs, it'll take you only a week or so 09:04:17 what's the big deal? 09:04:17 jsoft_, limp is limited, but fairly usable. 09:04:17 I do already use emacs. 09:04:25 weirdo, no big deal really 09:04:26 weirdo, it's the RSI, not the emacs. 09:04:29 weirdo: its slower (for me) and it gives me rsi 09:04:37 slower how? 09:04:39 sure, emacs gives rsi 09:04:45 you can rebind your keys to avoid RSI 09:04:46 but some of us have used vim for over a decade and it works really well for us 09:04:46 do you launch it on every file anew? 09:04:52 as in I can navigate/edit a _lot_ faster in vi/vim than emacs. 09:05:13 jsoft_: use viper then. It has the hardcore setting of PURE VI DAMMIT 09:05:23 Maybe this is where the jihad stops? #emacs / #vim 09:05:25 <_8david`> tic: okay, so "go help with vim+ecl" then? 09:05:27 didn't it present you with a welcome screen to that effect? 09:05:43 lol 09:05:54 weirdo: yeah, but, you know.. I work on a lot of computers from time to time, and its a real pain in the ass. Even just being used to caps as ctrl throws me off on normal computers. 09:06:00 _8david`, that's in fact where the problem lies. :-) (wasn't clear; I use Limp both to refer to the current version as well as an umbrella term for Limp and Vim-ECL) 09:06:20 jsoft_: besides, vim is complete trash as an app, IMHO. I accept its superior editing model, but absolutely despise every other UI decision they made 09:06:39 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:06:49 workthrick: yeah. It is like emacs is missing vim's editing model. 09:07:02 +1 09:07:07 yeah 09:07:24 but tbh, it just makes sense to edit lisp code with a program written in lisp 09:07:37 ...which is why I'm writing vimp.el, btw 09:10:21 <_8david`> tic: okay. How does eclim do it? 09:11:12 _8david`, what's eclim? 09:11:38 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:12:43 <_8david`> VIM/Eclipse integration. 09:12:57 <_8david`> As you can tell, I have no clue about VIM at all. I'm just looking at the pretty diagram on http://eclim.sourceforge.net/development/architecture.html 09:13:08 :/ 09:13:12 viper-mode sucks :/ 09:13:23 I keep telling you people that you're going down the wrong trail here. What you should be doing is making climacs behave like vim (: 09:13:23 It's still emacs 09:13:25 _8david`, NetBeans, IIRC. However, functions need to be written in VimScript. I dislike VimScript. That's the prbolem. 09:13:39 yeah I agree 09:13:43 You can even make up a spiffy name for it like "vimacs" or "schmx is da man" 09:13:45 schmx, [10:03] voidengineer, yup, I'm thinking of re-implementing Vim in Climacs. 09:13:49 oh 09:13:54 hehe 09:13:56 tic: That was on last screen! 09:14:04 pgup.. too much work (: 09:14:29 hi 09:14:32 _3b you there? 09:14:35 voidengineer: I actually started poking around with that some time ago, but it turns out that I don't know shit about vim. Being an emacs user and all ;) 09:14:35 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:14:40 -!- Guest68296 is now known as topitoo 09:15:03 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:07 schmx, I only know how to do what I need to with it 09:15:20 there's a lot you can do, but I haven't had any need to dig to deep into it 09:15:33 and tbh, I have been away from programming for 3 years now 09:15:50 voidengineer: Your mastery outranks mine then (: But I guess one should maybe start with making climacs have that there insert mode and the beep mode. And then start going through the rest (: 09:16:09 well, I'll tell ya what 09:16:28 if no one's looked into this in a year from now I'll *perhaps* look into it myself 09:16:33 schmx, vs emacs' "I'm stuck and can't get out of this damn editor"-mode? :) 09:16:33 ahahaha 09:16:44 lol 09:16:45 voidengineer: That is where I'm at too ;) 09:17:19 I need to reread Seibel's book and read PAIP first 09:17:29 that should be a good refresher 09:17:29 -!- topitoo [n=root@87.223.39.79] has left #lisp 09:17:36 I have started to use vim lately to get the feel of it, maybe get some inspiration. I guess something like paredit could be put "on top" of a vim in climacs. 09:17:40 hmm.. 09:18:12 Well back to code. (: 09:18:20 take care 09:19:33 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-92-109.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:21:00 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@82.83.99.137] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:23:08 doylent [n=doylent@150.217.252.182] has joined #lisp 09:27:18 -!- doylent [n=doylent@150.217.252.182] has quit [Client Quit] 09:32:29 ejs2 [n=eugen@94-248-92-109.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 09:42:04 ajcc [n=adrian@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:42:25 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 09:43:08 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:43:30 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:45:42 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA0DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:47:36 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:47:49 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA62D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:47:53 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 09:48:02 HET3 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 09:51:52 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 09:52:14 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@94-248-92-109.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:54:22 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:57:48 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:04:24 how do i code lisp program on linux? 10:04:32 which tools i need to install? 10:06:53 edmond: You need to install a lisp implementation. Like SBCL or CLISP. 10:07:30 edmond: Also you will probably like some sort of text editor. Preferably emacs with the SLIME extension. 10:08:55 It's meant that i need to install SBCL or CLISP, and then emacs with SLIME 10:10:32 Yes. 10:11:17 i down lisp-in-box for linux, but when i extract and run .sh file, it says "Bad substitution" 10:11:22 -!- jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:11:24 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:13:05 edmond: Ok. I have no idea about that. 10:14:02 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 10:14:11 thanks, i'll search on internet 10:14:24 edmond: Admittedly setting up a decent environment for exploring lisp is a bit of a hassle, but it is all worth it. I wish you the best of luck there. (: 10:15:38 edmond: "Bad substitution" in run.sh is a bug, You should report it to the author of lisp-in-box. 10:16:03 i've just read PCL 10:16:05 edmond: what linux distribution do you use? The main ones have packages for lisp, so it's rather easy to install what is needed. 10:16:19 and down lisp-in-box for linux x86 version 10:16:22 edmond: I am guessing here that you are on ubuntu. I would actually suggest that you 1) install emacs from ubuntu, 2) go to sbcl.org and download the prebuilt sbcl binary (download page), 3) google up clbuild (which can be used to install slime) 10:16:23 then... 10:16:34 then we will help you set up your emacs and slime integration (: 10:16:40 i use ubuntu 10:17:02 Indeed. I'm not so well versed in ubuntu, but I think maybe it is "apt-get install emacs" or some such. 10:17:41 And: apt-get install clisp 10:17:46 Oh god. 10:17:56 Please no:) 10:18:06 Then: emacs & ; and in emacs C-u M-x inferior-lisp RET /usr/bin/clisp RET 10:18:37 edmond sudo apt-get install emacs-snapshot-gtk to get emacs with Xft support 10:19:08 Ok. Now there's too much support. I'll go make some coffee instead (: 10:19:18 many thanks 10:19:36 edmond: Best of luck anyway, and happy hacking (: 10:20:33 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 10:21:40 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:28:12 -!- edmond [n=who_i_am@222.253.107.91] has quit [] 10:29:44 -!- lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:29:49 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 10:30:00 yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:30:08 _dima_ [i=dima@torch.blackened.com] has joined #lisp 10:37:43 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A694.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:42:50 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 10:42:59 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-10-109.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 10:47:30 -!- _dima [i=dima@torch.blackened.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:49:14 froog__ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 10:52:21 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:52:46 bma025 [n=bma025@fedon.uib.no] has joined #lisp 10:56:15 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 11:00:59 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 11:01:12 -!- crod [n=cmell@x250055.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:01:52 crod [n=cmell@x250011.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:02:20 -!- jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:04:34 -!- froog_ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:08:35 Fufie [n=poff@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:08:44 Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 11:10:12 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:01 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c140-24.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:16:11 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:17:17 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CF78.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:26 -!- yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:20:35 -!- sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B4C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:21:27 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #lisp 11:21:39 -!- lizao_ [n=liza@76.76.163.142] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:21:53 liza0 [n=liza@76.76.162.65] has joined #lisp 11:24:43 bbe [n=bbe@121.237.125.113] has joined #lisp 11:26:01 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-10-109.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:26:16 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:28:02 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:29:52 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 11:34:02 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:34:10 ljosa [n=ljosa@gm3b6-dd5.broad.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 11:34:26 is there something like squeak for lisp? 11:35:05 emacs? 11:35:05 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@84.18.242.227] has joined #lisp 11:35:12 lisp machines? 11:35:33 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 11:35:50 jewel: i'd say Genera 11:37:16 catface: what qualities of squeak are you looking for? 11:38:00 a gui i guess 11:38:26 integrated environment, i guess 11:38:28 ccl has some gui stuff 11:39:46 -!- liza0 [n=liza@76.76.162.65] has quit [] 11:40:33 catface: McCLIM (and the projects around it) is an attempt to create an integrated environment: The CLIM Listener, Climacs, Clouseau, etc. 11:40:38 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 11:41:07 thanks 11:41:24 catface: but it is not quite up to standards yet. 11:42:08 catface: but if you want to work on something like that, let me know. 11:42:15 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.142.69] has quit [Success] 11:43:02 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:43:32 speaking of mcclim, how better to do asynchronous i/o in it? i.e. how not to freeze it while waiting for the output? 11:46:15 *stassats`* can think of spawning a thread and waiting in it 11:48:33 that would certainly be one possibility. 11:49:06 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:52:11 spiaggia: the only one? can't i access event or command loop? 11:54:11 antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:57:06 <_8david`> there's an extra thread for the backend anyway, which reads events from the X server and injects them into a queue for the main thread. Starting additional threads for I/O that enqueue special events when data arrives is pretty much standard. beirc does it like that. 11:58:21 *spiaggia* vanishes to yet another meeting. 11:58:47 ok then, i was just thinking about systems which don't have threads 11:58:58 antgreen1 [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:06:12 bbe_ [n=bbe@221.226.128.15] has joined #lisp 12:06:51 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:07:35 -!- antgreen1 [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:07:48 blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@232.sub-75-249-30.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 12:08:13 -!- ljosa [n=ljosa@gm3b6-dd5.broad.mit.edu] has quit [] 12:10:32 -!- blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@232.sub-75-249-30.myvzw.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:11:32 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:12:29 cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:13:51 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:16:12 -!- bbe [n=bbe@121.237.125.113] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:25:46 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:26:21 topo [n=topo@87.223.39.79] has joined #lisp 12:26:25 hi 12:26:26 _3b 12:26:27 you there? 12:26:52 -!- appletizer [i=user@82.45.11.54] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:27:24 dan_b [n=dan@82-68-20-86.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:27:34 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:40 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:03 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:28 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:38:44 -!- topo [n=topo@87.223.39.79] has quit [] 12:39:07 10% of my web app time is spent in "foreign function __select" and a further 4% in "foreign function write" 12:40:06 I wonder whether those are slow functions or if it's waiting on the peer 12:40:22 dan_b: I think it's select waiting for something to happen :) 12:41:52 I will be quietly entertained if the bottleneck does prove to be apache mod_proxy and not the app behind it 12:42:25 wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d815281.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 12:42:47 hi once again :) long time no see 12:45:39 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit ["Am I missing an eyebrow?"] 12:46:00 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:46:05 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-219.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:46:25 root__ [n=root@87.223.39.79] has joined #lisp 12:46:27 hi 12:46:33 -!- root__ is now known as topito 12:46:40 hi can i make a question? 12:46:57 no. 12:47:27 why am i get this: package "ASDF" not found? 12:47:49 topito: you did not load asdf 12:48:10 not "" but "'" 12:48:14 check your input 12:48:20 i loaded with this: 12:48:20 (require 'asdf) 12:48:32 *H4ns* cleans his glasses 12:48:54 ` and ' are different. which did you use and which did it say? 12:49:09 oh i think when i put in my blog it changes 12:49:10 (asdf:oos asdf:load-op :cl-ode) 12:49:33 yes, you use wrong character 12:49:38 smart quotes/dumb users 12:49:39 ummmm 12:49:57 yes i fixed it 12:50:05 it was because i copied to my blog 12:50:08 please check 12:50:09 http://www.hypermilk.net/blog/?p=67 12:51:28 your blog has messed up the formatting quite considerably 12:51:45 I bet the original did not say 12:51:46 ; registering # as CL-ODE 12:51:49 for example 12:52:15 if you're posting that transcript to get help, use lisppaste or some other pastebin service 12:52:16 hey i fixed it 12:52:23 i have ode working now 12:53:04 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has joined #lisp 12:53:27 i just uses a compiled libode.dylib from panda 3d 12:53:33 *used 12:53:43 do anybody here have any experience with ode and common lisp? 12:54:28 "all of a sudden, all those cl-ode users that have kept quiet until now come out of their holes!" 12:54:52 topito: a.k.a. there propably is one cl-ode user, the person who wrote it :) 12:55:07 just one? 12:55:24 isnt there people using common lisp for 3d programming? 12:55:27 *stassats`* sigh... 12:56:42 topito: many of them use commercial lisps and keep quiet? :p 12:56:58 common lisp is not comercial? 12:57:09 *aerique* keeps quiet 12:57:16 *p_l* takes bait 12:57:29 ? 12:58:05 *wakeup* is wondering how he can write a generic-class-instance to a file? 12:58:10 topito: http://www.franz.com/ http://www.lispworks.com/ http://www.scieneer.com/scl/ http://www.cormanlisp.com/ 12:58:33 clhs make-load-form 12:58:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_ld_.htm 12:58:42 whats wrong with common lisp? 12:58:47 that's *four* commercial common lisps I could recall from the top of my head :) 12:59:18 CCL offer commercial support too 12:59:34 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-103.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:59:51 stassats`: I concentrated on purely commercial implementations 13:00:07 what do you mean with commercial, whatd does that word means? 13:00:09 proprietary? 13:00:11 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:28 just proprietary? 13:01:16 (eq `abc 'abc) Without , or ,@ ` results in the same as ' (but more work is needed internally). 13:01:22 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-253-162.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 13:01:43 sbcl guys could do support too, if you pay them well 13:02:02 did you check fluxus? 13:02:22 please check : 13:02:23 http://www.archive.org/details/flxtut3 13:07:39 Liam1 [n=healy@129-2-175-69.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:08:21 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D72C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:01 -!- froog__ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:14:02 froog__ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 13:14:14 -!- topito [n=root@87.223.39.79] has left #lisp 13:14:43 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:20:10 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 13:20:21 hello 13:20:36 joelmccracken_ [n=joelmccr@CMU-221270.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 13:20:52 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:21:18 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 13:21:30 addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 13:26:24 blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@13.sub-70-222-95.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 13:26:40 how do I feed (make-load-form) results to print? 13:27:14 -!- Liam1 [n=healy@129-2-175-69.wireless.umd.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:28:11 or I mean I got it to generate a load form, but how do I write that form to a file? 13:29:25 -!- eslick [n=eslick@dhcp-23-106.media.mit.edu] has quit ["Reverting to analog"] 13:29:26 wakeup: what is wrong about using cl:print? 13:29:46 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:53 it only writes the first line of the load form into the specified file 13:30:15 I figured that cant be right 13:30:17 wakeup: no. it writes the object passed as argument to the specified file. 13:30:33 wakeup: can you paste code? http://paste.lisp.org/lisp/new 13:30:42 yeap one moment 13:31:05 -!- bma025 [n=bma025@fedon.uib.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:32:40 'morning 13:32:54 clhs make-load-form 13:32:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_ld_.htm 13:33:07 wakeup pasted "write objects to file" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76746 13:33:39 topo [n=topo@87.223.39.79] has joined #lisp 13:33:42 hi 13:33:49 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@242-223.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 13:34:01 one question, why do i need to be in root mode in order to load the cl-ode? 13:34:06 when im not in root i get this: 13:34:10 I initialized *db* with (setf *db* (make-instance 'chan-db)) 13:34:13 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:20 debugger invoked on a CFFI:LOAD-FOREIGN-LIBRARY-ERROR: 13:34:20 Unable to load foreign library: /Users/topo/.sbcl/site/cl-ode/ode-0.8/ode/src/libode.so 13:34:26 but when im in root it loads fine 13:34:27 why is that? 13:34:44 permissions on the file 13:34:49 wakeup: did you read the clhs entry for make-load-form? it describes what the two values returned by make-load-form mean. 13:35:01 in which file fade? 13:35:20 the one it's unable to load. 13:35:22 *stassats`* sighs... 13:35:31 bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:36 how can i change that if i want to load the library no just when im not as root 13:35:41 topo have you ever worked in a unix environment before? 13:35:50 im on mac 13:35:55 mariusl [n=marius@p22.eregie.pub.ro] has joined #lisp 13:36:01 -!- mariusl [n=marius@p22.eregie.pub.ro] has left #lisp 13:36:06 mac is unix for the purpose of this conversation. 13:36:10 ah ok 13:36:14 yes i worked with mac before 13:36:20 *g* 13:36:23 chmod 755 /Users/topo/.sbcl/site/cl-ode/ode-0.8/ode/src/libode.so 13:36:54 but fade it should check here : /usr/local/lib/libode.dylib 13:37:16 the wierd thing is that when im not as root it checks here : /Users/topo/.sbcl/site/cl-ode/ode-0.8/ode/src/libode.so 13:37:24 your sbcl is being initialised from your user's site file, which is in your home dir. 13:37:30 but when im as root it checks here /usr/local/lib/libode.dylib 13:37:41 unless you installed sbcl in your home directory somewhere. 13:38:01 this is all remedial unix stuff. 13:38:11 how can i fix it? 13:38:27 i already gave you the command. 13:38:42 but libode.so doesnt work 13:38:49 i need libode.dylib 13:39:03 i don't have much faith that you're going to get this working. 13:39:10 why not? 13:39:15 1) learn about the osx dynamic loader 13:39:34 if you're on osx the extension for dynamic libraries is .dylib. anything that refers to .so is wrong and should be fixed 13:39:40 so, find where .so is mentioned, and change it 13:39:58 *Fade* touches his nose and points at kpreid 13:40:08 but why when im on root it checks the correct file .dylib and works fine? but when im not as root it looks for other file , the .so 13:40:13 why is that? 13:40:22 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-53-2.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 13:40:23 what is in .sbclrc? 13:40:26 find out and fix it 13:40:27 kpreid i changed 13:40:28 -!- ajcc [n=adrian@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has quit ["ping pong poff"] 13:40:41 H4ns: I still dont get what I have to with both values 13:40:41 i changed in the cl-ode.lisp file 13:40:48 and it works, but just when im as root 13:41:03 when im not as root it still looking the .so file 13:41:35 i suspect you have a system sbcl and another version of this cl-ode.lisp file. 13:41:49 and an sbcl and cl-ode in your home dir. 13:42:00 should i delete? 13:42:28 well, the one you built in your home dir appears to have gone wrong when it was built. 13:42:45 but i found a working one 13:42:51 from 3dpanda 13:42:54 and it works fine 13:43:05 but i just can load when im as root 13:43:23 H4ns: I still need to save both values as far as I understand 13:43:36 if you leave the broken ones around after the one that works is installed, depending on the search path for your shell, and lisp, you're going to get very inconsistent behaviour. 13:43:50 wakeup: i just tried to understand the page myself and have trouble with it :) 13:44:09 i changed the cl-ode.lisp because before it was pointing to the .so file and i added this (load-foreign-library #p/usr/local/lib/libode.dylib) 13:44:13 H4ns: thats calming :) 13:44:20 does that fix it? 13:44:30 and it worked , but it seems that when im not as root it reads other cl-ode.lisp file 13:44:48 yes it works but just when im as root 13:45:10 do 'find / -name cl-ode.lisp' 13:45:13 ok 13:45:15 how many does it find? 13:45:44 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@84.18.242.227] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:45:45 i got this: 13:45:46 toppos-computer:~ topo$ find / -name cl-ode.lisp 13:45:46 find: /.fseventsd: Permission denied 13:45:46 find: /.Spotlight-V100: Permission denied 13:45:46 find: /.Trashes: Permission denied 13:45:53 arg 13:45:56 wakeup: from what i gather, make-load-form is not really meant to be used by applications. i've only be using custom serialization libraries in the past. 13:46:02 ? 13:46:10 don't paste in channel. 13:46:15 ok sorry 13:46:25 i think i need to be in root 13:46:35 im gonna restart my computer , please hold on 13:46:44 *blink* 13:46:47 uh.. 13:46:58 OSX is a terrible unix, but it isn't that terrible. 13:47:03 -!- topo [n=topo@87.223.39.79] has quit [] 13:47:31 but more generally: can we stop noising the channel with basic trivial support for the pathologically unlearning? 13:47:41 if someone wants to help, can you do it by privmsg? 13:47:55 fine by me. 13:48:04 *Xof* waves at dan_b 13:48:36 ullo 13:48:40 H4ns: how do I do what I need to (which is saving lists of class-instances and an integer to a file, and retrieve them later) do then? 13:49:30 did I wake up in bizarro world today? 13:49:32 root [n=root@87.223.39.79] has joined #lisp 13:49:36 lol 13:49:37 im back 13:49:43 -!- root is now known as topito 13:49:43 \o/ 13:49:53 when i do this: find / -name cl-ode.lisp 13:50:00 nothing happens, my computer get stucked 13:50:04 topito: all of this is way off topic for this channel. 13:50:12 wakeup: print/read should be just fine. 13:50:27 i suggest you post to the mailing list supporting the system you're trying to use. 13:50:35 topito: presumably it's trying to read some interesting pseudo-file in /dev 13:50:47 cmm how can i fix? 13:51:04 it takes find a long time to return, depending on the size of the disk it's searching. 13:51:13 oh 13:51:14 topito: go to a linux support channel 13:51:17 yes maybe is checking 13:51:21 im gonna wait 13:51:31 Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 13:52:00 cmm i also think theres looking to other cl-ode.lisp file 13:52:21 wakeup: hold on, it has been a while since i experimented with make-load-form 13:52:26 topito: have you asked the developers of cl-ode? 13:52:34 when im in root it checks one , and when im as not root is checks another 13:52:39 i dont know why does it does that 13:52:41 wakeup: i'm not even sure that you need to invoke make-load-form yourself. 13:52:49 topito: but let's just say that your MO (working as root, having no idea where your files are, asking linux questions in #lisp) suggests that you should start by becoming more organized 13:52:56 because of the path set for your regular userid. 13:53:06 ok 13:53:06 H4ns: well I tried just writing *db* but print says it does not know how to do it 13:53:07 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:53:15 i get this: 13:53:23 "/private/var/root/.sbcl/site/cl-ode/cl-ode.lisp" 13:53:25 topito: can you please leave this channel now? 13:53:28 topito: thank you. 13:53:34 leave? 13:53:44 you mean going out from here? 13:53:50 topito: [x] yes 13:53:56 you don't understand enough about the basic functions of your computer to fix the problem you have. 13:54:03 -!- Aratsu [n=nonposso@24.42.160.108] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:54:14 : | 13:54:36 four day of flooding channel with cl-ode nonsense is enough 13:54:43 s/day/days/ 13:54:44 which means that every answer degenerates into an offtopic conversation. 13:54:50 -!- dtulig [n=user@cpe-72-179-46-14.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:54:50 "/Users/topo/.sbcl/site/cl-ode/cl-ode.lisp 13:54:57 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:55:12 topito: ask the developers of that system. 13:55:18 ok 13:55:20 nobody here uses cl-ode. 13:55:34 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1F351.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:55:50 how can i see the .folders in leopard? 13:55:52 in the finder? 13:56:01 .folders are hidden folders 13:56:06 how long is a piece of string? 13:56:14 this long. now go awat 13:56:16 away 13:56:31 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1D832.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:57 im going to eat, be back soon 13:57:06 or I'll start asking questions about configuring pound, which is doubly unfair because (a) it's non-lisp, (b) I wrote the app it's sitting in front of and _ought_ to be able to remember how it works anyway 13:59:15 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:44 -!- cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:03:17 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:06:28 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:30 -!- TDT_ is now known as TDT 14:07:49 wakeup: i don't think that make-load-form is meant to be called by applications, really. 14:08:29 wakeup: but i also can't figure out how one would use it implicitly. i'd use a serialization library :) 14:09:10 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:09:50 -!- ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:10:00 wakeup: you may want to look at this: http://www.pentaside.org/paper/persistence-lemmens.txt 14:10:27 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 14:11:12 H4ns: will do, thank you for your assistance 14:11:24 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 14:11:37 wakeup: in fact, that article pretty much explains it all :) 14:12:14 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:15:15 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 14:15:41 KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:15:56 fade 14:15:58 you there? 14:17:20 do go away 14:17:21 topito: one way to see the .folders in MacOSX, is to open the Terminal.app, and type ls -a instead of just ls. 14:17:45 i was asking how to see from the finder 14:17:53 i know how to do it from terminal 14:17:55 topito: you are rude. please stop. 14:18:00 AFAIK, there's no way to see them in the Finder. 14:18:06 me? 14:18:43 topito: you. right. you are monopolizing a 300 people channel with trivial off topic questions. please stop. 14:18:51 ok sorry 14:20:26 topito: sometimes you have to learn things that don't seem to be in direct connection with what you want to do right now, to be able to do what you want to do right now. That's why you must be willing to, and you must do learn things by themselves, without a direct purpose. Otherwise, now is already too late. 14:21:30 ok thanks 14:24:10 does brian mastenbrook ever come round here these days? 14:24:54 -!- topito [n=root@87.223.39.79] has quit [] 14:25:15 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:32 -!- vostibackle [n=vosti@cpe-24-28-81-28.austin.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 14:25:48 jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 14:28:10 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 14:28:17 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:28:31 dan_b: quite rarely 14:30:06 dan_b: btw, I recently had a bit of success with haproxy 14:30:14 it's not too hard to setup, either (: 14:30:16 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:30:41 I figured a workaround for pound 14:30:50 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 14:31:02 though prelimirary results say it really doesn't compare favourably to mod_proxy anyway 14:31:55 topo [n=topo@87.223.39.79] has joined #lisp 14:32:02 hello i just fixed 14:32:16 i just changet all the cl-ode.lisp files in my computer 14:32:23 dan_b: you avoid the general annoyance of using apache, though 14:32:31 *changed 14:32:43 (in terms of configuration and occasional tendency to leave dead processes lying about) 14:32:54 also, I think pound will handle more connections 14:33:02 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:33:24 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93-40-119-116.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:33:55 hello 14:34:10 -!- Arnar [n=arnarb@blackhole.hvergi.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:34:17 I need apache or some kind of accelerator for the plain http connections anyway 14:34:20 dtulig [n=user@204.57.75.120] has joined #lisp 14:34:31 I was just hoping pound would give better performance on ssl 14:34:48 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:36:17 hello dan_b 14:36:28 dan_b: make sure you're using the loopback interface on your proxy connection 14:36:58 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 14:37:22 actually, I should check apache maxchildren 14:37:39 I suspect it may be wset low enough to not kick shit out of the araneida 14:37:45 -!- HET3 is now known as HEt2 14:37:48 -!- HEt2 is now known as HET2 14:38:02 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:17 hmm, 150, maybe not then 14:39:58 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["leaving"] 14:40:12 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 14:44:07 c|mell [n=cmell@x250003.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:44:11 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has left #lisp 14:44:22 -!- jfactor [n=john@student165-228.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:45:06 -!- Kenjin_ is now known as Kenjin 14:47:07 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 14:47:27 -!- crod [n=cmell@x250011.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:49:37 jocke_ [n=jocke@dhcp-194-86.nomad.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 14:54:05 -!- knobo [n=user@148.122.202.247] has left #lisp 14:54:17 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 14:54:29 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 14:54:42 -!- bombshelter13 is now known as bombshelter13_ 15:00:04 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:28 hmm, I withdraw my earlier comment. pound is looking signifncatly better on a second run 15:00:31 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:04:12 dan_b: I'd be amazed if it's slower than your (presumably cl) backend can handle, in any case 15:04:18 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:04:43 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 15:04:44 so would I, considering there are at least 2-3 database calls on every page 15:05:13 jfactor [n=john@student165-28.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 15:06:22 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:06:30 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:07:23 sulo [n=sulo@p57B4B4C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:46 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:23 Isn't there a portable way (abstraction layer?) of executing an OS command? 15:11:22 Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 15:11:27 how portable and what command? 15:11:43 personally I'd asdf:run-shell-command but there may be better ways 15:11:54 minion: trivial-shell? 15:11:54 trivial-shell: Trivial shell is a simple platform independent interface to the underlying Operating System. http://www.cliki.net/trivial-shell 15:12:10 -!- Fufie [n=poff@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:13:01 someday, someone will make a triviality package that combines all the trivial-* libraries 15:13:30 and then it should probably be integrated into CL itself :p 15:13:56 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-18-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 15:13:56 trivial-complexity? 15:14:12 trivial-pursuit? 15:14:17 stdlispl 15:14:19 I expect there are three ways to do it 15:16:22 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:17:18 "Stdlisp" looks somewhat unrelated to common lisp. 15:17:37 but you can pronounce it a bit like "studly" 15:17:41 so it should succeed 15:18:46 why am I getting such massive variation in my results? grr 15:20:05 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl064.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 15:20:38 dan_b: everything being done over loopback? 15:21:07 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-212-64-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:21:12 ASau: There was a Standard Lisp, before CL... 15:21:27 loopback or a mostly quiet network. I think one of the pages in my app is doing different things spontaneously 15:21:38 matimago: it does exist still :) 15:22:01 dan_b: are you catching errors? 15:22:04 total data transferred is more or less constant, but number of requests served is all over the dhop 15:22:32 if it's a db-backed thing and you have many simultanious connections, then the db may be reaching its connection limit, causing some requests to fail very quickly 15:22:36 using siege, I believe it catches http errors but obviously won't see anything the app handles itself in a user-friendly way 15:23:37 the app itself won't catch and hide a db problem, though? 15:23:49 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 15:24:49 it should present some kind of friendly error page, but can't remember whether that's 200 or 500. unlikely to be the problem, though, as db connections persist one per araneida server thread 15:25:17 and so are opened before the request is served 15:26:10 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:28:46 -!- Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:30:22 Do I understand this correctly that when I want to call call-next-method in a method I have to make sure that the next method really exists? 15:30:43 yes 15:30:58 -!- jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:31:14 -!- ASau [n=user@host9-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Off!"] 15:31:18 so (if (next-method-p) (call-next-method)) is common? 15:31:38 unless signalling an error is ok for you 15:32:03 But this is only necessary for primary methods? 15:32:17 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:31 you can also define your no-next-method method 15:33:32 For example, in a subclass, you may know that there is a next method implemented in the superclass, in which case you don't need to test. 15:33:40 sepisultrum: why do you want to do that? 15:34:48 pkhuong: I just found out that I don't. I can use :after methods instead 15:35:41 aha, definig your own no-next-method is interesting. This all reminds me of ruby a lot 15:36:40 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:37:32 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:00 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:02 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:40:04 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 15:41:55 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:44:21 ajcc [n=adrian@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:53 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0BDA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:28 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:45:35 Greetings! 15:46:17 to much WoW? 15:47:00 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:49:37 jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 15:49:58 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 15:50:07 I found this http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/os.html for command line arguments stuff, but is there any "trivial-foo" package for retrieving command line arguments? 15:51:28 vy: I think the best way to handle the commandline is to wrap the execution of the lisp in a shell script and pass the arguments to the lisp in a form. 15:51:36 the problem must be *too* trivial for that 15:51:49 minion: getopt? 15:51:50 getopt: getopt is a library for processing command-line arguments. http://www.cliki.net/getopt 15:52:46 vy: you may find something in clocc or clan. 15:52:54 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp419.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 15:54:12 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 15:54:27 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:54:49 stassats`: But AFAIK, getopt just parses passed argv arguments, one still needs to find a way to extract argv. Am I wrong? 15:55:32 vy: you may find something to get the arguments in clocc or clan. 15:57:44 Strange. `SB-EXT:*POSIX-ARGV*' returns `("/home/vy/usr/bin/sbcl")' despite "ps ax | grep sbcl" tells me that "/home/vy/usr/bin/sbcl --core /home/vy/usr/lib/sbcl/sbcl.core". Isn't it erronous? 15:58:09 no 15:58:17 Umm... Yep, I see. 15:58:18 that's arguments for sbcl, not for your app 15:58:19 Sorry for the noise. 15:58:24 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:00:21 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:22 -!- bbe_ [n=bbe@221.226.128.15] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:01:11 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 16:02:04 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:03:35 tmh pasted "Magical Commandline Wrapper" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76749 16:03:46 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 16:04:28 tmh: well, how's that portable? 16:05:04 stassats`: That's not, but it illustrates the approach. I left portability as an exercise for the reader. ;-) 16:05:33 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:05:37 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has left #lisp 16:07:27 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:48 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 16:10:25 -!- jfactor [n=john@student165-28.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:10:41 -!- jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:12:00 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 16:12:51 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 16:18:16 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:18:35 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:47 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:23:39 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:24:12 berkeley db supports distributed transactions! it's even used by google for their universal sign-on :-) 16:24:31 so does tokyocabinet :) 16:24:36 -!- Taggnostr2 [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has quit [] 16:24:48 Taggnostr [n=x@wolf.yok.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 16:24:49 p_l: have you any tokyocabinet experience? 16:25:03 in particular, do you know is it possible to do transactions with tokyotyrant? 16:25:10 rsynnott: currently playing with it by writing CFFI wrappers 16:25:16 haven't tested it in the wild yet 16:26:41 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:27:09 good evening. 16:27:14 jfactor [n=john@student167-155.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 16:27:31 rsynnott: hash and btree modes support 16:28:00 and tokyotyrant allows you to call any operation you want. Dunno about how it would work with replication, though 16:28:21 rebra_ [n=rebra@85.112.137.146] has joined #lisp 16:28:54 -!- rebra_ [n=rebra@85.112.137.146] has quit [Client Quit] 16:29:20 its api seems to lack transaction-related ops 16:29:43 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:29:52 p_l: can TC do 200,000 queries per second? :-) 16:30:24 rsynnott: table api also allows transactions. And docs are indeed a little intelligible :) 16:30:42 fusss: If I were to believe the author, yes 16:32:13 though you have to remember, that it's one of those databases that are especially harsh when it comes to thinking about configuration :3 16:32:23 stassats [n=Brucio-8@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:34:00 cause simply choosing different models of db means a lot 16:34:41 *stassats* is trying beirc 16:34:57 *rsynnott* is interested in trying it as a backend to elephant 16:34:59 oh, and in case of tokyotyrant, you can add stored procedures 16:35:16 (in that it would seem to behave similarly to bdb, but without the horrible license) 16:35:32 and would be particularly nice for distributable apps using elephant 16:35:59 fusss: http://tokyocabinet.sourceforge.net/benchmark.pdf 16:36:19 rsynnott: it was developed commercially as internal app and a social networking website decided they are not a software company ;-) 16:36:28 milanj [n=milan@79.101.180.245] has joined #lisp 16:36:55 haha 16:37:22 ah, livejournal syndrome 16:38:06 rsynnott: git://github.com/unya/cl-tc.git some code for binding tokyocabinet (no tokyotyrant yet). I haven't yet coded a nice API, but it gives you all of tokyocabinets C API already 16:38:25 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:38:31 ah, nice 16:39:07 fe[nl]ix: looks good 16:39:35 *p_l* finds software from japan at least unusual, and often weird 16:40:01 ruby? :) 16:40:33 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 16:41:15 rsynnott: I was thinking more along the lines of CGI programming still being popular, or of MO drive popularity, or the fact that quite a lot of well selling games would be working on open source engines, etc. 16:42:07 or that my kernel reports that it initialized SAKURA and TOMOYO during startup (and Tomoyo is good at watching closely, isn't she?) 16:42:14 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:36 (old anime joke) 16:43:36 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA0DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:44:43 -!- jocke_ [n=jocke@dhcp-194-86.nomad.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lämnar"] 16:45:53 altogether, Japan is "WTF by default" 16:46:07 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47:20 ruby is quite normal compared to a lot of it 16:49:00 why wtf by default? :) 16:49:54 *p_l* searches for that old motivational... 16:50:12 yeah internet's view of japan is pretty skewed :p 16:50:40 repnop: In afterthought, I wish I had tried going there :) 16:50:47 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 16:50:48 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:50:53 *repnop* has much experience in this subject 16:51:00 i hate anime so when i mention i speak japanese in america... 16:51:09 OMG I LUB JAPAN 16:51:12 reponses haha 16:51:17 *p_l* found japan cheaper than scotland 16:51:25 nagasaki isn't too bad 16:51:30 for housing prices 16:51:48 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:51:49 though the yen strength makes it far more expensive now 16:51:58 repnop: When you get MEXT scholarship it beats everything :D 16:52:11 not as strong as it was a bit ago thank god 16:52:16 people still live in nagasaki? 16:52:28 rsynnott: yes 16:52:29 rsynnott: evil 16:52:32 :-P 16:52:35 Why? 16:52:39 why wouldn't they? 16:52:45 Indeed! 16:52:51 well, the atom bomb and all 16:52:53 vng [n=qwerty@222.253.95.114] has joined #lisp 16:52:54 though it felt weird driving by the impact site many times a week 16:53:06 that area is downtown nagasaki now 16:53:16 I would have thought that people would avoid it, considering how worked up they get about things like nuclear waste 16:53:36 nah nagasaki is great 16:53:49 nicktastic [n=nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has joined #lisp 16:53:58 lots of fresh seafood due to right next to the ocean 16:54:01 lots of mountains also :) 16:54:13 rsynnott: i think Tianjin is far worse than any nuke impact site. the chinese live in place that tax your life span, ime. 16:54:41 -!- stassats [n=Brucio-8@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["Client Quit"] 16:54:45 oh, in practice all sorts of things are far more dangerous than nuclear impact sites or reactors 16:54:49 my wife's family are all from nagasaki 16:54:50 Anyone know where I can find the CLIM II spec in a printable format? 16:54:58 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:54:59 does anyone know of a way to persuade cl-postgres to do one request instead of three for each query? 16:55:07 but people do tend to be over-the-top paranoid about anything involving nuclear anything 16:55:12 rsynnott: you shouldn't be so afraid of radioactivity. Either it decays quickly so it's soon not a problem anymore, or it doesn't so it's not a problem anyways, but a source of energy, that is a solution. 16:55:19 (that's why MRI scanners aren't called NMR scanners) 16:55:27 http://plasek.rootnode.net/japan.jpg <--- here is the motivator, btw :D 16:55:29 p_l: so why didn't you go to japan with the scholarship :) 16:55:43 matimago: I'm not. I'm just surprised the general public isn't; in most countries people are even very cautious of living near a reactor 16:55:47 i see guys like that everytime i take the bart to SF :P 16:55:52 repnop: completely my fault :) 16:56:06 dan_b: welcome back mate! 16:56:17 I see guys like that in Dublin; I don't think it's a Japan-only thing :) 16:56:34 hello 16:56:37 i just hate the image japan has in internet pop culture :p 16:56:41 though it won't change 16:56:47 western internet pop culture that is 16:56:54 as for radioactivity, a certain dose makes you much healthier :) 16:57:40 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 16:57:44 p_l: ah :/ 16:57:57 repnop: it's all extrapolated from shibuya and roppongi tourist photos 16:58:08 fusss: and western otaku :) 16:58:17 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:58:25 Are there gtk bindings for common lisp ? 16:58:27 repnop: n00b weaboo narutards give us bad name... :P 16:58:38 emma: several 16:58:39 i feel sorry for the japanese exchange students who take japanese language classes for the easy credits 16:58:48 there's also a centuries-old tendency in the west to think that China and especially Japan are REALLY STRANGE, which presumably hasn't gone away 16:59:10 rsynnott: cause people I know who been there keep saying it? 16:59:21 most of my experience is with rural japan though :) 16:59:21 and by been there I mean "live there" 16:59:22 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:59:42 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:42 i can't find the gtk bindings on this page: 16:59:43 haven't been in tokyo since 2000 except to get to other airports ;p 16:59:44 http://www.gtk.org/language-bindings.html 16:59:55 stassats`: ^ 16:59:56 they're not linked from there 16:59:57 rsynnott: doesnt that statement hold if you swap west with east and china/japan with rendom western countries, too? 17:00:04 http://www.cliki.net/Gtk 17:00:18 stassats`: i cannot find the gtk bindings on that page ^ 17:00:24 repnop: According to a certain polish author (really an IT guy who wrote about his experiences in japan), rural, south-west japan was much less strange compared to tokyo-to 17:00:28 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:00:35 emma: go to the cliki page rsynott linked to 17:00:43 minion: tell emma about clg 17:00:44 emma: please look at clg: Espen Johnsen's GTK bindings for CMUCL, SBCL and CLISP. http://www.cliki.net/clg 17:00:49 tetha: to an extent, no doubt, but 19th century views on China and Japan in Europe and Asia were very much more extreme than views on say India or Africa 17:00:53 or more like "still different, just not going 'woah, gaijin!' everytime" 17:00:56 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has joined #lisp 17:01:05 sorry, 'Asia' should be 'America' 17:01:12 jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 17:01:35 also, IMHO japan has much better image on the internet than USA ^_- 17:01:37 p_l: yeah you dont see that silly shibuya fashion so on 17:01:39 china should feel like home for anyone who grew up in a communist arab country, like me :-P 17:01:50 fusss: thank you! 17:01:53 and they dont like otaku :P 17:02:03 esp japanese otaku 17:02:08 http://www.cliki.net/Gtk 17:02:18 seeing as all they see about them on the news is trouble 17:02:20 emma: are you on Windows or linux? 17:02:32 repnop: depends on the kind of "otaku" I guess... I know quite a lot of people who would fit the name, but not necessarily the stereotype :P 17:02:35 like that guy who's apartment was full of nothing but manga who raped and killed a young girl 17:02:43 in tokyo a few years back 17:02:52 repnop: wasn't that around a decade ago? 17:03:05 like 4 years ago another one eh? 17:03:09 maybe 5 or 6 now 17:03:12 i was in japan at the time 17:04:02 fusss: im on linux 17:04:11 i just a dosage of reality for the internet (lol yeah right :)) 17:04:19 emma: that's good, most bindings should work for you then 17:04:19 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0BDA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 17:04:46 repnop: you'll find deranged people everywhere... If I had better info on how to pass information/help authorities in certain cases, I'd have helped them few times :/ 17:04:49 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 17:05:02 (apropos "japan") 17:05:06 NIL 17:05:09 p_l: yeah i understand 17:05:21 fusss: but if you make an application the application can work on windows right? 17:05:24 i'm just saying the way the west views the otaku culture compared to how the avg japanese view it is very different 17:05:56 If we want to run lisp as CGI, hunchentoot + mod_lisp + apache is the fastest? 17:05:57 akibakei isn't popular with the regular folk ;p 17:06:00 repnop: yeah. Though the west has what we call "narutards" etc. :) 17:06:01 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:06:03 emma: if your bindings work on windows (like lambda-gtk does) you can take the same source and compile it on both machines just fine 17:06:34 repnop: most of the west has no views at all about otaku culture 17:06:37 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:06:40 and even on Macos! 17:06:50 tomoyuki28jp: no hunchentoot if you want speed; get fast-cgi bindings and run lisp behind apache (ideally nginx or lighthttpd) 17:06:59 (though if you want to use the weird carbon macos binding, you'll have great fun) 17:06:59 fe[nl]ix: yes, the subset that does have views normally are excessively interested in anime and such 17:07:02 so it skews their views :P 17:07:28 *p_l* personally is interested in getting some land somewhere in asteroid belt. Far enough from stupid politicians 17:07:38 tomoyuki28jp: these days, hunchentoot + random-reverse-proxy should be as fast as apache/mod_lisp/hunchentoot 17:07:58 rsynnott: "these days" meaning since 1.0? I'm still on <1.0 17:08:06 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:13 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:08:20 I thought otaku was a cross between obsession and hobby 17:08:20 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:31 or is that an oversimplification 17:08:34 fusss: since at least 0.15.7 17:08:36 proq: it's not a negative connotation for all things. 17:08:45 (with flexi-streams of similar vintage) 17:08:49 I would guess that hunchentoot speed variesa lot with implementation, iirc it's layered on top of flexi-streams 17:08:54 if you're an otaku about something productive they don't mind :p 17:09:02 rsynnott: i have 0.15.7 and fastcgi slaps hunchentoot silly for massive file uploads 17:09:18 or if you dont take it too far as is the case anywhere 17:09:22 oh, yep, hunchentoot uploads are still moderately slow 17:09:32 (possibly fixed as of 1, but I doubt it) 17:09:39 do you do that much massive uploading? 17:10:00 rsynnott: not that much actually 17:10:07 but for normal work, newish hunchentoot/flexi-streams are reasonably fast 17:10:16 uploading through a web server always smells like wrong tool =) 17:10:48 uploading through a web server is necessary until the web2.0 crowd popularise your site and write funky clients for its api 17:10:55 see e.g. flickr 17:10:57 +1 17:11:06 whose api is http-based 17:11:07 So the fastest combination is (lighthttpd|nginx) + FastCGI? 17:11:23 *repnop* loves nginx 17:11:41 I benchmarked a while back; 0.15.7 managed 64MB/sec compared to 8MB/sec on just downloading a large in-memory blob of text many times 17:11:52 tomoyuki28jp: you need to test your fastcgi bindings; the ones in clisp are rock solid, there is one for sbcl/cmucl that's labeled 75% complete and I found it to be just fine 17:12:03 (compared to 8MB/sec for 0.15.3, that is) 17:12:49 tomoyuki28jp: play with clisp a little; it has a small footprint and fast startup and you can have a bunch of it running at the same time. 17:13:04 there is an nginx plugin that handles the flie upload inside nginx, then passes a slightly modified request to the application server. might be worth investigating for upload speed improvements. 17:13:25 fusss: When we use FastCGI, we don't need multi-thread? 17:13:33 (you need a way to get the file to the web app, though. maybe too hard if nginx and hunchentoot run on different hosts) 17:13:39 I'd go with hunchentoot unless I had a solid reason to think it was unsuitable 17:14:16 tomoyuki28jp: no you don't. no multithreading; your lisp process is already pre-forked. 17:14:33 -!- jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:15:14 fusss: Nice. Thanks a lot for the useful info. 17:15:22 tomoyuki28jp: no problem. 17:15:37 -!- topo [n=topo@87.223.39.79] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:16:00 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:17:02 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:17:35 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-593f7e1f3cd516ca] has joined #lisp 17:18:23 agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has joined #lisp 17:18:54 ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-150-168.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:19:00 hi 17:19:11 ruediger: hi 17:19:22 howdy 17:22:11 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93-40-119-116.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 17:22:43 I'm trying to compile cl-irc with sbcl 1.0.25 on linux x86-64. And I get the following error message: http://paste.lisp.org/display/76753 17:22:47 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 17:22:51 ozy| [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:38 " Symbol "FLEXI-STREAM-ENCODING-ERROR" not found in the FLEXI-STREAMS package. " ... Is my flexi-streams package to old or cl-irc too new and how can I fix the problem? 17:24:18 -!- funebre [n=mfunebre@c-71-231-101-169.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:24:18 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:24:37 i just used cl-irc with flexi-streams 1.0.7 17:24:40 works ok 17:25:12 ruediger: how old is your flexistreams? 17:25:28 well, and cl-irc from svn, not release 17:25:56 rsynnott: good question :) how can I get the version number 17:26:13 stassats`: I'll check the svn version 17:26:19 (*yuck* svn ;)) 17:28:01 fusss: with fast cgi, the process is not necessarily preforked 17:28:44 someone make flag day for svn and change all of it into mercurial or git :/ 17:29:45 afk - going off to a networking event, now that I found back my key :) 17:29:58 p_l: you forget about cvs 17:30:19 *rsynnott* is old-fashioned, and has never gotten around to learning to use git 17:30:57 *p_l* didn't actually learn git, but found basic operations easy enough 17:30:57 *stassats`* is new-fashioned, and never used cvs or svn further than checking out sources 17:31:19 though I'm not glad to see the back of cvs 17:31:41 *p_l* used CVS and didn't find it as infuriating until he ended with a broken network connection that he has now 17:31:48 rsynnott: you feel sorry that cvs has left? 17:32:39 I'm a git contributor, so I guess that adds git+++ to my geek code 17:33:13 dlowe: no, I didn't like CVS 17:33:28 or at least I found it annoying to go back to once I had used SVN 17:33:32 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:37 oh, that should have said 'not sorry' 17:33:47 but I've never gotten comfortable with git 17:34:43 I wasn't comfortable with it until I really learned the internal structure. Now it's easy as breathing. It's just all blobs referring to each other via hash 17:37:38 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:30 stassats`: thx. compiles now with the svn version. 17:39:12 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:41:25 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:42:52 timor [n=icke@port-87-234-97-28.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:44:24 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:46:31 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:47:22 i'm on RCS 17:48:30 ruediger: had the same trouble myself 17:48:49 -!- vng [n=qwerty@222.253.95.114] has left #lisp 17:49:14 clbuild seems to work at the moment for installing pretty much anything i've tinkered with. that's cl-irc and different xml-parsers 17:49:47 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:51:28 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:52:18 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 17:52:27 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f49b9.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:52:50 -!- dtulig [n=user@204.57.75.120] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:52:56 fusss: When we decide to use FastCGI, there is no way to write a portable code? 17:52:59 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #lisp 17:53:48 tomoyuki28jp: the api does look different from one binding to another; clisp's fastcgi module is just for clisp. the others are a bit more portable but you will need to see if they do everything you want. 17:54:13 tomoyuki28jp: don't use fastCGI! 17:54:28 drewc: why? 17:54:40 tomoyuki28jp: because there are better ways. much better ways 17:54:52 drewc: like what? hunchentoot? 17:55:03 willb [n=wibenton@wireless85.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 17:55:16 fastcgi is pretty damn nice from the perspective of a hosting provider 17:55:40 guaqua: ummm .. how many lisp hosting providers do you know of? 17:55:53 second question being, how many do you run? 17:56:34 tomoyuki28jp: hunchentoot is very nice. 17:56:43 tomoyuki28jp: mod_lisp is lower-level 17:56:47 i'm a sysadmin at a rather large one 17:57:12 running lisp as fcgi would probably work. just need to install the libraries 17:57:29 there are large lisp hosting providers? 17:57:55 dan_b: not large .. we only have about 100 lisp-using members, but we are _the_ lisp hosting provider :) 17:58:01 hehe 17:58:28 thanks for the mail btw, I need to prod boss 17:58:38 drewc: fusss just told me FastCGI is faster than hunchentoot, isn't it correct? 17:58:48 drewc: url? 17:58:50 tomoyuki28jp: fuss is wrong :) 17:58:58 guaqua: http://tech.coop 17:59:21 drewc: the thing about fcgi is that it's the right way to do large scale small site hosting 17:59:28 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:59:34 guaqua: why not mod_lisp? 17:59:34 drewc: Would you recommend apache+mod_lisp+hunchentoot or hunchentoot stand alone? 17:59:48 tomoyuki28jp: stand alone until you need otherwise. 17:59:55 it scales well beyond cgi but also doesn't take as much resources if the processes are set to expire 18:00:17 guaqua: lisp systems are a little different .. 18:00:30 drewc: mod_* considered a bad idea if you don't have access to apache configuration 18:00:36 holycow [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has joined #lisp 18:00:52 drewc: i don't know as much about mod_lisp as i know about the others 18:01:00 guaqua: how many lisp-using web sites do you host/are familiar with, have talked to the admins .... 18:01:12 drewc: none :) 18:01:27 point. 18:01:42 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0BDA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:53 i wouldn't touch mod_lisp for this large system 18:01:58 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:08 guaqua: 70% of our lisp using hosting members don't even use apache. 18:02:14 let alone mod_lisp. 18:02:24 fastcgi, however, should work with lisp too 18:02:27 drewc: thanks a lot for the useful info 18:02:47 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:03:00 guaqua: yesh, anything can be made to work. CGI is a poor way to develop lisp web apps, and fastcgi is jsut a hack. 18:03:22 a compatible hack :) 18:03:28 guaqua: nobody i know does CGI in lisp .. that is just not the way it's done .. 18:03:29 true, I also prefer http nowadays to fastcgi 18:03:41 with proxying as necessary 18:03:44 drewc: i'm not talking about cgi here 18:03:45 -!- nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:04:00 zargleflux [n=sidux@lisp.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:04:01 why come all the way to lisp just to use a broken development model? 18:04:05 drewc: cgi is a dead end, especially when you start getting users 18:04:30 guaqua: you are preaching to the choir here. What you are missing is that this is #lisp .. 18:04:37 ;) 18:04:42 your petty concerns as a hosting provider are not relevant :) 18:04:52 we want lisp .. 18:05:02 SBCL in it 100mb/image glory! 18:05:12 deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has joined #lisp 18:05:14 :) 18:05:15 there's nothing wrong with that 18:05:37 my point was about the merits of fastcgi/fcgi as the universal way 18:05:46 doghead [n=email@93-97-25-170.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:06:10 guaqua: so was mine .. it's crap, has always been a hack, and if you're going to do lisp web development right, stay away from FastCGI... 18:06:16 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:06:42 guaqua: that is just an opinion, but a _very_ educated one. 18:07:06 i can't contest you on the lisp web development part :) 18:07:28 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:08:17 guaqua: s/lisp/perl (mod_perl). s/lisp/php ... 18:08:42 I have been using fastCGI profesionally for some 10 years .. it is not a good solution. 18:08:50 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:52 it is a performance hack. 18:08:59 yeah 18:09:06 what do you think about wsgi? 18:09:11 hack :) 18:09:24 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:09:30 honsestly, i don't know much about it. 18:09:46 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 18:10:19 I doubt shared hosting suits lisp apps very well 18:10:31 guaqua: highly python-centric, no? 18:10:33 rsynnott: we do a shared lisp hosting platform. 18:10:50 it's not the best option IMO, but it's cheaper and less work than a VPS. 18:11:13 i recommend the VPS always, but some are quite happy there. 18:11:20 how does that work? 18:11:24 jocke_ [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has joined #lisp 18:11:33 user runs hunchentoot, you do proxying, or something? 18:11:36 does every client have their own systems set up or do you provide some standard base? 18:11:47 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:11:53 rsynnott: we basically give you two ports, 800x and 400x, one for slime and one for your web server. 18:12:04 *rsynnott* is pretty cautious of shared hosting in general 18:12:09 drewc: ah, right, makes sense 18:12:26 rsynnott: and yeah, we proxy to the 800x one :) 18:12:30 or mod_lisp 18:12:34 your choice. 18:12:39 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:12:44 do you have many people doing that? 18:13:00 guaqua: we used to provide a common sbcl + libs .. but lisp moves too fast. 18:13:16 the official recommendation is 'throw a lisp in your ~ and go nuts' 18:13:18 i was thinking about the memory usage in general :) 18:13:38 guaqua: yeah, having everybody on the same image would save a lot of RAM 18:13:57 but RAM is cheap, shared lisp hosting is not-so-cheap .. so we treat our members right! 18:14:06 can you give some estimates as to how much ram does on system take? 18:14:08 rsynnott: maybe 7-10 18:14:25 s/on/one 18:14:26 hmm, many running commercial sites? 18:14:39 *rsynnott* hasn't seen many commercial cl-based sites 18:14:57 guaqua: between 30 and 150mb RAM or so per system (on shared hosting). any more and we move them to a VPS 18:15:13 rsynnott: not on shared hosting that i know of. We have a number of commercial sites on the VPS's 18:15:45 we have had commercial sites on the shared platform... but i recommend the move to a VPS simply because of the OOM killer. 18:16:47 we also have an 'application deployment platform', which is somewhere between shared hosting and a VPS, but costs more than both put together :) 18:17:36 -!- blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@13.sub-70-222-95.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:17:59 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:18:21 guaqua: just read a little more on wsgi .. it's just another gateway interface. I personally think HTTP is a fine protocol, and don't mind speaking it from my programming language. 18:18:37 any 'gateway' is really a hack... 18:18:46 though i did add php scripting to a lisp app via CGI once. 18:19:07 and i wouldn't write a web server in python ... 18:19:23 so it makes sense coming from a world of hacks :P 18:20:25 drewc, no cherry pie for you 18:20:30 probably beats the mod_bla approach in many cases, too 18:20:38 drewc, any particular reason? 18:21:14 http is *hard* to speak correctly. *gi are much simpler to implement correctly 18:22:19 subset-of-http-that-your-upstream-proxy-speaks is pretty trivial though 18:22:25 tic: why i wouldn't write a web service in pything you mean? 18:22:29 drewc, yah 18:22:37 the GIL of course. 18:22:44 you know whether or not it's going to start sending you chunked requests and 100 continue 18:22:53 Ah, yes. 18:23:07 foom: i don't advocate _writing_ an http server .. that's what Edi is for :) 18:23:16 drewc, but wait, why is the GIL related? you can do comms Twisted style 18:23:23 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:31 dan_b: how do you know that? 18:24:06 tic: you can, totally. But then you need async database libraries as well ... 18:24:10 -!- catface [n=email@93-97-25-170.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:24:11 foom: hopefully the proxy will document it 18:24:38 foom: you stick it on the internet for ten years and find out :-) 18:24:39 tic: i love twisted-style programming, but for web applications it's a little hard to use. 18:24:55 dan_b: heh, that's one way 18:25:02 dan_b: wfm, ymmv? :) 18:25:12 drewc, I have actually only used it for web stuff. nevow, back in the days. it was ... different. 18:25:48 -!- zargleflux [n=sidux@lisp.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:25:56 tic: i play around with the async stuff in IOLIB all the time. I _can_ write applications that way, but would prefer no to. 18:26:01 "Copyright © 1999-2008 Stargreen Box Office" ... need to update that copyright notice 18:26:14 will be ten years come the summer though 18:26:34 dan_b: is that older than cliki? 18:26:46 there's no legal requirement to have a date in a copyright notice in most places 18:26:52 I think cliki was summer 2000 18:26:55 *slyrus_* wonders WTH he's doing that's making SBCL's compilation of mcclim/etc... so damn slow today 18:27:03 (actually, there's no legal requirement to have a copyright notice at all usually) 18:27:43 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 18:27:53 rsynnott: but it makes it look serious 18:27:57 tic: that said, you could use a delimited continuations transformer + async i/o and still write 'linear' code.. i've though of this. 18:28:03 drewc, twisted smells like continuations to me. and design patterns. lots of design patterns. 18:28:20 drewc, mhm. did you come up with anything interesting? 18:28:50 http://www.advogato.org/person/dan/diary/37.html # prescient 18:29:34 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:29:52 18:29:53 Hm. Rubber Duck Debugging. I need to adopt that style. 18:30:31 blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@237.sub-70-223-183.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 18:30:52 tic: yeah, i actually had a proof of concept working.. you could write non-blocking i/o and have the code look like standard blocking i/o.. it was not that much different than doing the opposite in UCW. 18:31:00 *stassats`* only has a rubber frog... 18:31:08 not only was it a start; it was a finish, too. 18:31:17 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-186-234.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:31:22 drewc, nice. language masturbation is one of my favourite past-times. 18:31:29 rsynnott: :D 18:31:40 rsynnott, http://lists.ethernal.org/oldarchives/cantlug-0211/msg00174.html 18:31:41 i've written quite a bit of twisted.* code. I like the approach. 18:31:50 tic: totally .. when i get burnt out of programming, something silly like that really helps to bring me back to task. 18:32:33 drewc, indeed, doing the same thing here, but in Python. a silly object-model on top of Python's own, but it got me going again. 18:32:36 ; /Users/sly/src/lisp/clx/crhodes/clx/sbcl-1.0.25.54-darwin-x86/xrender.fasl written ; compilation finished in 0:02:22.050; that seems ridiculously slow... 18:32:42 drewc, so did you release the continuation thingy yet? 18:32:57 tic: oh hells no, nowhere near. 18:33:06 drewc, party pooper. :( 18:33:08 i doubt i even still works :) 18:33:16 hah, advanced case of bit-rot? 18:33:21 s/advanced/severe/ 18:33:46 yeah, likely.. IOLIB was young and i didn't know how to use it, so it's a mix of iolib, sb-socket and sb-unix calls ... 18:36:13 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 18:37:08 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:37:19 for that matter i'm not even sure it survived the "Great Gale of Summer '08" 18:38:21 jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:33 drewc, suddenly the code was not in Kansas anymore? 18:38:46 drewc: you have a knockdown? :) 18:39:26 *slyrus_* is tired of waiting for this. thinks aborting, zapping fasls and retrying will be much faster. 18:39:32 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:39:36 Fade: yeah, tore out the main in 45kts and dropped her on her beam ends. I've lost a few laptops doing that :) 18:39:43 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:48 gack 18:40:11 drewc, is it The Raft you live on? 18:40:29 a fine tub is not a raft :) 18:40:34 tic: yeah, that's the one :D 18:40:52 drewc, awesome! 18:40:52 -!- ozy| [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:40:58 ouch 18:41:30 (except for the "losing a laptop" part, of course) 18:41:34 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:44 fwiw, i should have reefed as soon as it topped 30kt or so, but it was right on my nose, i had to make tide at the pass, and needed to make 4+ kts. 18:41:55 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:41:57 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:42:03 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 18:42:08 so as usuall i was caught with full laundry out when the front hit. 18:42:10 an expensive day. 18:42:23 reefed? feed? did we just fast-forward to a young lady's illustrated primer? 18:42:37 tic: made the sail smaller. 18:42:59 Fade: indeed .. the sail will cost me a lot more than the laptop in the end, 18:43:01 . 18:43:23 i have a friend at ITA that makes his own sails in the caffeteria there. 18:43:34 drewc: would you trust hunchentoot to serve static content to thousands of viewers per day, and same for uploads? 18:43:57 i can explain what i'm doing in private, btw 18:44:08 fusss: 'trust' yes. 'think its an optimal solution', no. :) 18:44:27 antifuchs' suggestion was interesting. 18:44:38 drewc: it was from that prespective i recommended fastcgi; it left ht in the dust 18:44:51 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:45:13 drewc: what kond of boat do you have? 18:45:15 fusss: I serve my static content from apache and _proxy to a lisp httpd (not hunch). 18:45:17 ok, a reasonable question would be "why noit just use apache anyway of you're mostly serving static content" 18:45:21 i still don't grok the changes/improvements in the 1.0.0 hunchentoot, fwiw 18:45:48 guaqua: got 2, a Martin 29 sloop and a Carius 46 ketch. 18:45:49 *dan_b* stops and ponders 18:46:04 and here i am trying to optiise cl-postgres to get some more speed out of it 18:46:09 that carius is a sizable one :) 18:46:13 dan_b: some server side computation has to be done to choose the appropriate "static" content; think of watermarking an image with a visitors IP or some such 18:46:59 guaqua: She's quite the ship. Sitting on the hard right now, costing me an arm and a leg in carpenters labour :) 18:47:58 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-233-222.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:06 that's the one that got battered? 18:49:14 nah, the little one is the one that sails currently. 18:49:36 the big one is for the south seas and eventually the southern ocean. 18:49:57 big one for big dreams 18:50:11 you got it :) 18:50:30 have sailed most of my life, dinghies and some keel-boat racing 18:51:08 i didn't expect it, but in retrospect I probably should have; there's an overlap between sailors and lisp folks. 18:51:18 Fade: odd, that. 18:51:21 -!- joelmccracken_ is now known as JoelMcCracken 18:51:38 lisp is almost as complicated as sailing. or the other way around 18:51:55 guaqua: and just as simple too :) 18:52:04 sailing is simple compared to software. =) 18:52:27 sailing's rare enough that the observed overlap might even be statistically significat :) 18:52:28 it might be some large corelate to NIH. :) 18:53:18 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 18:53:44 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:53:51 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit [Client Quit] 18:54:10 neither are as hard as shopping 18:54:41 the hardest part about software is slaing those methodology-zealots so you can actually do something 18:55:12 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:55:32 Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-129-203-250.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:16 the politics of methodology are a force amplifier for the complexity of (* |doing something| well) 18:56:26 software is a social sport 18:56:41 Soulmann [n=kae@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:28 Yuuhi` [i=benni@p5483CF78.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:35 *Fade* ponders clpython 18:58:28 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0CF68.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:37 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 18:59:38 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has joined #lisp 18:59:43 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CF78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:59:47 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:59:49 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-186-234.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:59:50 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 18:59:59 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-186-234.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:06 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-186-234.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:00:30 -!- PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:00:31 Numlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 19:00:34 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-136-86.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:00:57 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 19:01:12 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:01:42 Fade: clpython is cool.. lisp is likely a much better implementation language for (ruby/python/perl/etc) than C. 19:02:00 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:04 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:20 hmm... looks like running this under emacs/slime was the cause of the slowdown, fwtw 19:02:47 slyrus_: lots of messages shooting by? 19:02:50 drewc: aye 19:02:57 rsynnott: _very_ slowly 19:03:07 each line that usually shoots by was taking multiple seconds 19:03:39 heh 19:03:57 *rsynnott* wonders how long sbcl would take to compile in slime 19:04:14 the manual warns that if you have a slowish terminal it should be done in a detached screen session 19:04:16 dunno, but mcclim was taking hours. i don't require it being that way before 19:05:56 rsynnott: it's also interesting how much it will take without producing warnings/notes at all 19:08:28 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:09:06 -!- mle [n=emily@kuu.accela.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:10:10 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 19:11:44 mle [n=emily@kuu.accela.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:20 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:53 -!- blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Connection refused] 19:13:41 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 19:14:03 -!- Soulman__ [n=kae@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:15:39 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:15:51 -!- H4ns3 [n=hans@p57A0CF68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:16:07 gah. here's the damn slowdown again. starts of ok, then grinds to a halt. I wonder if something changed in slime. 19:16:36 no memory exhaustion, or anything? 19:19:14 doesn't seem to be 19:19:43 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-42-169.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 19:20:53 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 19:22:31 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-99.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 19:22:40 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 19:26:24 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:27:03 I hate macros 19:27:38 really, really, there should be a compulsory macro tax for all software authors who don't know the different between affect and effect 19:27:48 s/different/difference/ 19:27:56 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-186-234.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:30:45 there should be a macro tax period, but you get a tax break if your macro is a very thin layer over a well thought out functional interface. 19:32:57 but what of the with-bla macros? 19:33:31 Why bother with them, rsynnott? 19:33:46 rsynnott: you mean the FUNCALL-WITH functions? 19:33:49 nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 19:34:07 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 19:35:51 with-open-file 19:36:44 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:57 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:36:59 Yep, WITH-OPEN-FILE: (with-open-file '(:if-exists :error :direction :output) (lambda (output-stream) ...)) 19:37:39 if cl had a compact syntax for closures a la smalltalk blocks there would be much less justification for with-foo macros 19:38:05 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:17 *dan_b* gives up on trying to make cl-postgres do what he wants 19:38:31 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 19:38:48 it needs more blood sugar 19:43:00 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:43:11 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:47:47 kerc [n=riise@65.84-49-151.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:48:20 phadthai_ [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:20 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:48:24 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 19:54:54 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp419.studby.uio.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:55:09 dan_b: use postmodern? 19:55:39 doesn't postmodern use cl-postgres as a backend, in itself? 19:55:47 it does 19:56:10 but I don't want an oo layer, I already spent too much time with 'explain' 19:56:42 what I would like to be able to do is make it do only one round-trip for each query, not separate steps fir parse/bind/execute 19:56:52 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.166.169] has quit ["MODEM: Monumentally Overpriced Data Eating Machine"] 19:57:11 since each is measured in milliseconds 20:01:33 _death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 20:02:04 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:02:05 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:02:50 Does anyone know how to alter the way lisp treates the car of an evaluated S-expression? e.g. I want (q w), if there is no function q, to look in the variable q for a function value, then apply w to it. 20:03:26 write your reader-macro for #\( 20:03:50 stassats`: ah. 20:04:22 I think thne usual answer is "if you want scheme you know where to find it" 20:04:39 stassats`: but wait, would that alter list constants as well? 20:05:12 that's up to you 20:05:17 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@CMU-221270.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:05:20 dan_b: I'm reading a scheme tutorial right now, just thought I would try how programmable a language lisp is. 20:05:23 -!- kerc [n=riise@65.84-49-151.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:06:08 stassats`: How could I tell them apart? (print '(q w)) (eval '(q w)) 20:06:12 boggle. I'm now spending 3% of time in calls to (sleep) 20:06:33 rumbleca_ [n=rumble@174.0.46.123] has joined #lisp 20:07:29 stassats`: is there a way to override (function 'name)? 20:07:50 would that help? 20:08:47 -!- rumbleca [n=rumble@174.0.46.123] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:09:22 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-205-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:23 meingbg: well, write also your reader macro for #\' 20:09:54 Did anything ever come of the the open sourced MCL (other than the renaming of OpenMCL->ClozureCL to avoid confusion?) 20:10:56 -!- ajcc [n=adrian@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:14:47 stassats`: I doubt that would work with the whole code as data idea. If I can't tell code from data, I can't write those macros. 20:14:59 Am I in the wrong? 20:15:18 well, yeah, you'd need to modify evaluator 20:16:25 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 20:16:27 the-ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-156-172.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:16:30 -!- ruediger [n=ruediger@62-47-150-168.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:16:51 that's what macros are for 20:17:49 bzwahr` [n=user@rgs-4dec.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:18:54 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:19:16 guaqua: Then tell me how to do a macro like this: ((f (x) (+1 x)) 2) --> ((lambda (x) (+1 x)) 2) --> 3 20:19:55 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 20:20:25 you want to call lambda f for some reason? 20:21:52 meingbg: Perhaps unfortunately, you can't do that with a simple macro: you'd need a higher-level tree walker to find such expressions and translate them. 20:22:09 (with-lisp-1 ...) or some such. 20:23:30 guaqua: well, just an example of the types of things I'd like to do. Things that can't typically be named with just a symbol. 20:23:49 -!- blbrown_lt [n=blbrown@237.sub-70-223-183.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:24:38 oh hi, gigamonkey. been reading your book :) 20:24:50 guaqua: cool. 20:25:10 I manage to get a Haskell dude at work to borrow my copy of PCL. 20:25:22 *gigamonkey* needs to read Real World Haskell 20:25:25 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:25:39 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 20:26:10 (defmacro fancy-eval (body) `((lambda ,@(cdar body)) ,(cadr body))) 20:26:19 (fancy-eval ((f (x) (1+ x)) 2)) => 3 20:26:26 pcl, unlike some others, was a good read even though i couldn't try the code out right away 20:26:44 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 20:26:52 guaqua: Probaby a result of my tendency to just read programming books without trying the code. ;-) 20:27:16 gigamonkey: thx 4 the info. 20:27:21 stassats`: thx 20:27:57 gigamonkey pasted "What does your Lisp say to this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76787 20:29:00 gigamonkey: suited me :) 20:29:05 heh, PCL was my final gateway into CL :) 20:29:13 hey, it's old-timers' night on #lisp! 20:29:23 welcome back to IRC, peter (: 20:29:27 -!- holycow [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:29:43 Hm. I'm not an old timer and its not night here... I feel left out. 20:29:44 antifuchs: hey. Xach been around? 20:30:29 -!- bzwahr` is now known as echosa 20:30:33 he was soliciting hotel roommates for the Hyatt on march 6 20:30:37 Anyway, is the zone result returned by decode-universal-time supposed to be affected by daylight savings? Or is it always the same and it's up to you to use the daylight-saving-p result to adjust? 20:30:48 fjs_ [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-42-169.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 20:30:52 haven't seen him since 20:32:09 gigamonkey: all my lisps say (nil -3) (nil -3) 20:32:31 i get (nil -2) (nil -2) 20:33:13 I get (T 5) :( 20:34:06 knobo [n=user@148.122.202.247] has joined #lisp 20:34:39 does not port.lisp from CLOCC support SBCL? 20:34:40 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-42-169.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:34:45 -!- fjs_ is now known as fjs 20:35:05 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.6.247.3] has joined #lisp 20:35:12 dlowe: americano! 20:35:41 stassats`, guaqua: Are you guys (or your Lisps) somewhere where daylight savings is not observed? 20:35:56 gigamonkey: not yet 20:36:00 *gigamonkey* hates almost everything about date calculations. 20:36:08 *dlowe* uses local-time. 20:36:26 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has quit [] 20:36:28 in Russia it will be at 29 march, iirc 20:36:32 *p_l* considers calling remind as external process to do the calculation for him :-) 20:36:38 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:36:38 gigamonkey: finland, we have daylight savings 20:36:43 still "winter time" 20:36:53 Ah, you haven't switched yet. Right. 20:37:05 how does DST work when you are inside arctic circle? 20:37:33 how do time zones work when you are at the Pole? 20:38:03 I guess you can sit down and turn yourself to eat all day 20:38:05 sort of 20:38:31 -!- karvus [n=thomas@193.213.35.168] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:38:52 p_l: on the day of the winter solstice the sun doesn't show up. regardless of what your lisp tells you :) 20:39:48 *p_l* considers going for half a term to Norway 20:40:14 it's gonna be rainy and gray on the coast anyway, p_l 20:40:28 guaqua: I was thinking about Tromso 20:40:38 that's another case :) 20:40:43 guaqua: Depending on how far north you are, I guess... both Helsinki and Tampere must be below the arctic circle, right? Where are you, in Oulu? 20:41:47 meingbg: in helsinki, so technically no midnight sun, no polar darkness 20:42:33 Well, Norway still looks like a country with a big surplus of common sense 20:42:35 I see. 20:42:47 unlike UK 20:43:09 lapland during midsummer is a very special place 20:43:14 strange even 20:44:04 *stassats`* is almost on the same latitude as Helsinki 20:44:30 I can imagine. Haven't been there during midsummer, though. 20:44:38 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:45:09 i only realized it after moving to helsinki from the north - and began to appreciate it 20:46:10 -!- phadthai_ [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:46:48 Strange. You only miss what you've got after losing it. 20:47:12 s/miss/appreciate 20:47:37 not strange, quite common 20:48:13 -!- Tordek_ [n=tordek@host17.190-137-255.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:48:40 proq` [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 20:50:09 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:30 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:31 meingbg: you are from south of sweden originally? 20:50:31 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250003.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:51:10 Does anyone know how to get a window object in clx from a resource id? 20:53:03 guaqua: not originally, but I currently reside there. 20:53:32 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:56:18 guaqua: Olen syntynyt ruotsalaisena ja asunut ruotsissa suurin osa elämääni. 20:58:13 meingbg: jag skulle säga impressivt, men vet inte om det är svenska. jag har planerat att flytta till uppsala och studera där mig själv. det är aldrig så enkelt :) 20:58:43 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:27 guaqua: Din svenska är "imponerande". Vad planerar du att studera? Mitä aiot opiskella? 21:02:00 -!- echosa [n=user@rgs-4dec.tamu.edu] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:02:41 bzwahr [n=user@rgs-4dec.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:03:07 -!- bzwahr [n=user@rgs-4dec.tamu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:03:29 det var det :) egentligen, nån som har inget att göra med datorer, antropologi 21:03:40 bzwahr [n=user@rgs-4dec.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:05:21 meingbg, guaqua: the party's over, try #svenska 21:05:31 sorry, fe[nl]ix 21:06:38 -!- bzwahr [n=user@rgs-4dec.tamu.edu] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:06:40 c|mell [n=cmell@x250006.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:06:50 fe[nl]ix: sorry, would it be all right doing (with-swedish ...)? 21:06:52 bzwahr [n=user@rgs-4dec.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:07:16 meingbg: sure, as long as it expands into with-private-messages 21:07:58 -!- bzwahr [n=user@rgs-4dec.tamu.edu] has left #lisp 21:08:51 pkhuong: funny how both english and lisp are accepted languages in this channel. Kind of like Finland, having two official languages. 21:09:50 english should be banned as well, lisp is more expressive 21:09:57 t 21:10:59 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:11:37 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 21:12:55 -!- the-ruediger is now known as ruediger 21:13:41 rukubites [n=user@d58-110-123-24.sbr6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:13:44 faux: at least lisp is less ambiguous 21:14:01 How do I delete a class using MOP? 21:15:49 wouldn't unintern work? 21:16:24 rukubites: what would the semantics be? 21:16:30 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:16:39 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 21:17:16 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-5.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:03 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-103.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 21:19:08 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.228] has joined #lisp 21:21:45 sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:24:33 pkhuong: I don't need to now, I found a work around... but my explanation is that a bug was invoked in postmodern when I re-defined a class a certain way, so I wanted to just delete the class and define it from scratch. 21:24:53 class with metaclass DAO-CLASS. 21:25:37 ah. Unintern ;) 21:26:50 Hey, that does work! Nice simple solution. 21:27:05 -!- wakeup [n=wakeup@koln-5d815281.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["leaving"] 21:27:10 Thanks stassats` and pkhuong. 21:27:10 The class is still there, but you're not redefining it. 21:27:27 That makes sense, it can't know it is the same class because it is now nameless. 21:27:31 (poor thing..) 21:29:54 -!- sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:29:56 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:15 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:30:40 sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:31:21 bzwahr [n=user@rgs-4dec.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:31:32 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:38 good day everyone 21:31:43 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:31:46 so it is 21:31:54 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 21:31:56 :) 21:32:12 i wish someone had told me "paip is a book, idiot" a long time ago 21:32:19 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:32:21 did anyone else have that problem 21:33:46 isismelting: paip? 21:33:53 minion: paip 21:33:54 paip: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/paip 21:34:18 i thought it was just the source code - i did not know there was a book that the source code was a part of 21:34:44 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-205-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:34:44 so i spent a long time trying to figure out norvig's eliza, thinking the only explanation he wrote was the comments 21:34:52 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-205-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:27 -!- meingbg [n=user@remote5.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:35:29 meingbg [n=user@remote5.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 21:36:11 interesting 21:36:40 minion: who wrote you? 21:36:40 superman 21:36:50 anyone else know? 21:37:20 doylent [n=doylent@host98-83-dynamic.51-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:37:31 minion: what are you? 21:37:31 why do you want to know? 21:37:35 lol 21:37:43 Brian Mastenbrook is that superman 21:38:04 is the source or an explanation of how minion works etc available? 21:38:06 deliana [n=deliana@ABordeaux-158-1-109-192.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:38:08 -!- sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:38:14 http://paste.lisp.org/system-server/show/cliki-bot 21:38:31 thanks, stassats, you consistently helpful mf 21:38:37 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 21:38:46 -!- ASau is now known as Azau 21:39:19 stassats - do you happen to know if there is anything like minion for aol aim? 21:39:20 and eliza part is from PAIP 21:40:15 isismelting: if there is oscar library for lisp, it isn't hard to make it work with it 21:40:32 speaking of eliza from paip i'd like to formally apologize for saying i thought my eliza was better than peter norvig's! i meant to say something more like "why do i think that my eliza is better than peter norvig's" as in "what am i missing" or some other question where the answer would be "uh, paip is a book, idiot - read it" 21:40:52 oscar is the aim protocol i'm guessing then 21:41:32 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:41:40 yes 21:42:09 stassats - do you have a website 21:42:25 i get the feeling i'd be interested in whatever it is that you do 21:43:01 i do actually, but there is nothing of much interest 21:43:24 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 21:44:45 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:44:56 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:58 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D7E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:06 can i see it anyway? i'm interested in anything as long as it has bright colours or is in black and/or white or pastels 21:45:26 http://stassats.dyndns.org/ 21:47:21 impressively efficient in design 21:47:34 do you live in russia? 21:47:37 sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:47:52 yep 21:49:01 how has being fluent in two relatively very different languages affected your lisp programming? 21:49:14 feel free to answer quantitatively (or not at all) if you're busy 21:49:43 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host9-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 21:51:28 charlie rose is that you? 21:52:33 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 21:53:18 stassats`: did I ever ask you whether you want to add your asdf-browser to redshank? 21:53:20 isismelting: i wouldn't say that it affects programming somehow, many people here are not native english speakers 21:53:56 michaelw: wait, my asdf-browser? you must be mistaken me with someone 21:54:57 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:54:59 stassats`: oops, indeed! sorry 21:54:59 -!- KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:55:51 (it was Stanislaw Halik) 21:57:58 -!- jocke_ [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has quit ["Lämnar"] 21:58:58 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-205-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:00:09 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:51 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:29 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0CF68.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:04:23 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:05:48 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 22:06:08 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:41 josemanuel [n=josemanu@16.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:10:05 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 22:10:55 anryx [n=anryx@213.210.175.188.adsl.nextra.cz] has joined #lisp 22:11:37 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-53-2.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has left #lisp 22:11:40 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-109-192.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:14:30 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:14:34 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:37 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:14:46 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.228] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:15:45 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:09 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:30 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:00 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 22:19:41 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has quit [] 22:20:05 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:20:34 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:20:41 -!- slyrus__ is now known as slyrus_ 22:22:57 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:24:51 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-5.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [] 22:25:55 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A694.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:25:55 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@216-177-194.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:26:12 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A694.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:26:12 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@216-177-194.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 22:29:52 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:30:22 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:09 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:31:38 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:34 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:34:43 Is there something like find-all-if ? 22:35:08 remove-if-not 22:35:10 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 22:36:29 of course 22:36:37 thanks 22:37:29 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:38:59 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.6.247.3] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:43:39 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@16.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 22:47:26 -!- spec[afk] is now known as mrSpec 22:49:55 lemonade` [n=no@pool-151-200-237-97.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:18 -!- Azau is now known as ASau 22:51:20 I'm trying to install steel bank common lisp. does anybody know how to install it to a directory in userspace? 22:51:53 INSTALL_ROOT=/whatever/you/want/ sh install.sh 22:51:58 thanks 22:52:13 You may have to adjust/unset SBCL_HOME first. 22:53:25 Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:54:00 I don't have SBCL_HOME set already. should I set it to what I use for INSTALL_ROOT? 22:58:34 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless85.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:19 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:00:53 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:01:51 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-205-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:22 hugocaracol [n=jhdsfk@81.84.177.13] has joined #lisp 23:02:23 ah I see.. it's there just out of view on the next page. thanks. 23:02:29 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:02:31 -!- hugocaracol [n=jhdsfk@81.84.177.13] has left #lisp 23:03:13 userspace, eh? 23:03:34 user disc space? 23:03:40 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:04:09 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:04:30 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 23:04:32 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.228] has joined #lisp 23:04:34 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-184-205-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:05:47 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:07:09 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0BDA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:08:08 -!- doylent [n=doylent@host98-83-dynamic.51-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 23:10:10 hefner: translating that was nothing compared to some of the telepathic debugging that regularly goes on here ;) 23:10:25 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:10:31 Beket [n=stathis@ppp15-223.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:10:35 I has a bug, fix it plz. 23:10:47 rukubites: done. 23:13:50 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:15:19 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-42-169.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 23:17:11 -!- sykopomp|work [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:17:13 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 23:17:32 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:31 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:22:01 -!- Yuuhi` [i=benni@p5483CF78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:24:27 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 23:27:32 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:28:25 stassats`: That exchange and the many similar ones always make me smile :) (find-all-if->remove-if-not) 23:29:25 -!- proq` is now known as proq 23:29:56 rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:30:29 blast_hardcheese [n=blast_ha@dsl092-043-124.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:59 hefner stassats`: yeah... in $HOME 23:35:18 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-099-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:18 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has quit [] 23:36:22 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A694.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:36:30 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has joined #lisp 23:36:33 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@66.166.232.134] has quit [Client Quit] 23:37:57 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:38:20 lacedaemon [n=algidus@88-149-212-145.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 23:38:22 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-99.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:39:50 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.30] has joined #lisp 23:40:08 milanj- [n=milan@79.101.169.246] has joined #lisp 23:41:19 *p_l* wonders just how many things he just broke in SBCLs runtime 23:41:46 joga [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 23:43:19 do I have to reboot Mac OS X to get sbcl to work? 23:43:41 lemonade`: no. 23:44:34 O_O ... rebooting for installation... I thought we are in better age than Win95... 23:45:31 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 23:45:37 ok... well, running sbcl gives me "Bus Error". 23:45:46 *stassats`* doesn't reboot even after installation of some hardware 23:46:11 _8david [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:46:28 install hardware, mac? 23:46:30 lisppaste: url 23:46:30 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 23:46:33 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:46:33 -!- _8david` [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:46:37 rullie: XServe? 23:46:48 lemonade`: try and paste a complete transcript of what you've done there. 23:46:49 too rich? 23:47:14 linux, too poor 23:47:31 -!- kuhzoo1 is now known as kuhzoo 23:47:41 pkhuong: umm.. ok. I closed Terminal and the history isn't there anymore, but I'll paste a reconstruction. 23:47:43 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 23:50:00 *p_l* worked once in a place full of hotswappable hw. advice? long sleeves and have a jacket. It's cold 23:50:44 so, it's not hot actually? 23:51:30 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:52:10 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:52:21 drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:40 stassats`: warmest place was just behind IBM pSeries. HVAC took care of it farther than 0.5m 23:53:11 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.180.245] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:55:00 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.228] has quit ["Leaving..."] 23:56:05 -!- pjb [n=t@88.182.134.169] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:56:32 -!- drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has left #lisp 23:58:36 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-8.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:58:36 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:22 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 23:59:43 okay, compile time, let's see how far it will get :3