00:03:16 drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:15 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@89.180.144.131] has joined #lisp 00:07:11 -!- dwave [n=ask@062016209059.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:09:48 psyllo [n=psyllo@67-42-127-248.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:06 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 00:11:35 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:13:50 -!- drakej [n=Fred@216-67-20-72-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has left #lisp 00:15:24 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:15:57 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:25:37 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087F523.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:28:34 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 00:29:17 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:29:48 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:07 -!- attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:30:34 huh. i don't think i've ever used slime /w clisp 00:30:44 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 00:32:45 i mean, i knew it was theoretically possible.. 00:34:38 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:15 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:36:44 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:17 It's a case of "nice theory". 00:47:08 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:57:16 Heh. It turns out I can C-c C-c a form and have it compile just fine, so I'm okay for a bit. 00:57:47 But according to the little hint in the minibuffer, with-open-file takes (stream &key ...), no filename. 00:59:35 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:00 it's that time again for one of my useless hypothetical questions: 01:00:51 i have been skimming through a java (enterprise) beans book trying to get a feel for one way to architecture lisp web app/framework 01:01:21 i can see entire chapters that correspond to one hunchentoot function, and then there are chapters that seem fairly interesting 01:02:21 for someone whose last java encounter was 1998 (and a month ago, fixing typos in a 1999 codebase) would it be a waste of time to actually learn EJBs to get architecturing ideas? 01:02:38 or are there easier/cleaner/scalable designs elsewhere? 01:03:06 <_3b> probably depends on whether you want to be enterprisey or not 01:03:41 enterprisey as hell (think: tying in with butt-loads of travel agencies and hotels) 01:04:18 Also might depend on what you mean by "enterprisey". 01:04:46 but only in that sense. my platform will be self-hosted boxes, but initially a self-rolled-out network of cheap-o vpses 01:05:54 -!- rswarbrick [n=user@cpc1-cove3-0-0-cust907.sol2.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 01:05:55 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:06:30 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:36 to give you ideas; my "web apps" all essentially grow out from the hunchentoot example page. i just add functions that dispatch on URLs, add whatever support code each needs and register it with the hunchentoot dispatcher. they grow horizontally in to multiple files, but it's all a tiny hunchentoot app. then i put that behind apache. 01:07:54 <_3b> sounds like you don't want what i meant by enterprisey, might still be worth reading the book while explicitly assuming it is wrong though 01:09:23 <_3b> probably worth trying to catch up on how java/ejb/whatever does things if you need to interface with other peoples web apps or whatever if nothing else 01:09:31 something Lispy that acted like COM might be cool. i really need a component architecture for lisp code. "here, untar and asdf-load this module into a running system and you have X functionality", etc. 01:11:13 and for a lisp server farm (Philip Jose?) you just hand it to one instance (the leader) and have it propagate. but yeah, i should shuddup and read the java texts (i feel squeamish about management-speech though) 01:12:23 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:36 <_3b> yeah, that's where the 'assume it is wrong' part comes in :) 01:12:43 for my own cross-references, are there similar architectures i should be looking at for comparison? i know of COM and .NET, what are the pythong stuff (Zope?) Ruby? 01:12:48 <_3b> try to reduce the rest of the chapters to 1 function as well 01:13:19 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:13:37 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:13:37 *_3b* doesn't really know anything about the subject though, and is just answering to avoid actually working 01:13:37 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:39 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 01:13:52 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 01:14:20 _3b: well said, cheers, here is a beer |_|o (/me who will not serve apps out of his wifi connection ;-) 01:14:30 laters! 01:14:32 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:16:36 -!- amaron [n=amaron@cable-94-189-243-158.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:18:32 -!- rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-1ae48d6a1b6e8d9f] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:18:53 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:21:37 KalifG [n=user@208-117-55-123.block5.gvtc.com] has joined #lisp 01:21:43 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-45-11-54.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:22:49 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:28 -!- X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:29:40 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:32:18 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 01:33:49 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:36:12 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:37:49 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:39 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:46 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:47:19 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 01:48:36 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:39 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-149-206.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 01:56:07 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A10CC.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:04:27 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:07:10 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCDE3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 02:17:56 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-47-203.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["G'night all. I may not be back before Friday."] 02:29:12 X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has joined #lisp 02:31:01 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483DFB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:37:43 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:39:10 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:53 jimi_hendrix [n=jimi_hen@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #lisp 02:41:17 anyone have a good reference for socket/network programming in CL? 02:42:44 I haven't noticed one. I suppose that you're expected to already understand the principles. 02:44:04 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.61.58] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:45:39 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@89.180.144.131] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 02:46:48 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:47:04 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 02:50:19 -!- Ikki [n=ikki@189.228.244.217] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:53:09 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:09 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 02:54:59 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:39 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:57:27 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 03:04:28 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.137.38] has joined #lisp 03:06:46 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-194.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:22:24 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.61.58] has joined #lisp 03:22:46 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-139-6.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:30:40 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:31:59 iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:31 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.61.58] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:33:02 A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation says #' only works on functions, then gives an example of a Lisp implementation failing on #'if. SBCL doesn't fail on it; does that mean if is a function in SBCL? 03:33:32 <_3b> no 03:33:55 <_3b> it still fails, it just doesn't complain at you 03:34:39 <_3b> clhs function 03:34:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_fn.htm 03:34:53 <_3b> see the last paragraph under description in that ^ 03:35:26 Function links to 4 other pages 03:35:49 <_3b> sorry, the 'special operator' one 03:36:10 got it 03:38:17 -!- tetha [n=hk@pD950F96E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:38:26 tetha [n=hk@pD950FE3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:02 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:39:17 -!- archangeleon [n=archange@cpe-72-228-162-52.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:40:22 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:40:26 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 03:40:35 This book is full of examples using setf without defvar. SBCL complains about that; is that another implementation-specific thing? 03:40:43 archangeleon [n=archange@cpe-72-228-162-52.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:40:55 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:41:22 <_3b> that is technically undefined 03:41:41 <_3b> most implementations do something useful with it, so it is OK for examples, but not a good idea for real code 03:41:53 OK 03:43:37 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:43:43 django, turbogears 03:43:54 misdirect. 03:49:27 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 03:52:58 this book shows an unquoted lambda at the top level printing an error, but it doesn't in SBCL. CLHS doesn't say much about lambda; is this also up to the implementation? 03:57:38 <_3b> might be due to age of the book, where is that example in the book? 03:58:26 > (lambda (n) (* n 10)) Dont forget to quote it! 03:58:26 Error: Undefined function LAMBDA. 03:59:49 <_3b> yeah, that sounds like it was written before the LAMBDA macro was added to the spec, you don't need the #' 04:00:24 This book is pre-standardization? OK 04:04:33 <_3b> depends on how you define 'standardization', looks like it is older than the final 'ansi common lisp' standard though 04:06:57 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-194.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 04:07:05 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-194.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:07:30 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-146-52.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:56 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:09:39 jlf [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 04:11:57 nekobaka [n=baka@c-76-29-163-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:04 vinc456 [n=user@unaffiliated/vinc456] has joined #lisp 04:15:22 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 04:15:42 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:55 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:22:46 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:52 good evening 04:24:04 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:25:29 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:28:34 my eliza is so neat 04:30:16 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:24 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:11 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:38:55 anyone bored enough to feel like running my eliza and telling me what you think? 04:41:46 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:43:31 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:19 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:45:34 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:46:43 whoiam [n=who_i_am@123.20.6.96] has joined #lisp 04:49:46 Hi all 04:50:26 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.137.38] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:52:32 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:09 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 04:57:33 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:59:03 crod [n=cmell@x250023.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 05:04:16 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:05:18 hi there whoiam 05:05:21 how do you do 05:05:41 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@x250019.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:10:32 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:16:57 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 05:17:43 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:18:11 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:23:11 -!- psyllo [n=psyllo@67-42-127-248.slkc.qwest.net] has quit ["later"] 05:28:23 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:19 I'm fine 05:29:24 how do you do 05:31:16 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:32:34 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:35:10 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:36:28 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:37:04 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 05:37:49 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 05:38:04 hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442383.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:42:03 -!- whoiam [n=who_i_am@123.20.6.96] has quit [] 05:42:38 -!- cheatcountry 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has joined #lisp 07:04:07 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 07:08:50 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:10 Good morning. 07:09:33 -!- dejai [n=dejai@230.15.233.220.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:10:55 dejai [n=dejai@230.15.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:10:55 dejai_ [n=dejai@230.15.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:12:26 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-146-52.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:12:36 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:14:24 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:15:49 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:16:02 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:17:59 mornin' 07:18:23 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:23:53 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:28:19 benny [n=benny@i577A114A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:29:12 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:45 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:52 -!- dejai_ [n=dejai@230.15.233.220.exetel.com.au] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:33:52 -!- attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 07:40:08 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:40:12 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 07:41:26 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0E68C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:50 Hey schme. How are things? 07:41:53 whoiam [n=who_i_am@123.20.6.96] has joined #lisp 07:44:20 jocke [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has joined #lisp 07:44:34 -!- dejai [n=dejai@230.15.233.220.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:44:44 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:44:56 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-152-75.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:45:07 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.166.169] has joined #lisp 07:45:39 beach: They're very good. A bit worn out that's all. Spent all of yesterday cursing the gnu assembler (: How's beach? 07:46:12 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:46:25 Lain [n=Lain@c-71-224-213-131.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:50 schme: I can't complain. I'll have another two slightly difficult months, but then things will become very interesting indeed, with a planned party, ELS in Milan, and then Vietnam for a few weeks. 07:47:17 Oh adventures (: 07:47:59 how to create GUI by lisp? 07:48:10 minion: tell whoiam about CLIM 07:48:11 whoiam: look at CLIM: The Common Lisp Interface Manager (CLIM) is a powerful Lisp-based programming interface that provides a layered set of portable facilities for constructing user interfaces. http://www.cliki.net/CLIM 07:48:41 i'll google it 07:48:47 thanks 07:49:00 whoiam: what platform are you on? 07:49:01 ? 07:49:02 hi? 07:49:05 anyone hre? 07:49:14 topo: only a few hundred people. 07:49:20 winxp 07:49:22 one question 07:49:33 how can i install a library in common lisp? 07:49:39 i'm new to lisp 07:49:40 whoiam: then use Lispworks and CAPI instead. 07:49:49 i want to install this one: http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-ode/ 07:49:53 i install allegro in a box 07:50:04 whoiam: then use whatever comes with allegreo 07:50:08 er, Allegro 07:50:16 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.133.48] has joined #lisp 07:50:22 yeah, allegro 07:50:42 whoiam: the allegro manual is comprehensive and their gui library works well 07:50:47 topo: I am sure Franz has a GUI library you can use. 07:50:58 who is franz? 07:51:09 The company that sells Allegro. 07:51:11 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:12 whoiam: but not that allegro licences are very expensive, so if you ever plan to release your code, check out that the licensing term suit you. 07:51:32 i don want a gui library i want simulation of rigid bodies 07:51:41 thats why i need ODE 07:51:44 topo: your name is not "whoiam", right? 07:51:54 :) 07:52:00 no 07:52:01 topo: there are several conversations in parallel. Get used to it. 07:52:21 ok 07:52:40 topo: if you are lucky, cl-ode can be installed with asdf-install. Otherwise, you will have to download the code manually and install it with asdf. 07:52:49 I have just begin lisp, and I don't know where to start 07:52:56 dejai [n=dejai@230.15.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:53:05 which is the benefit installing with asdf-install instead of manually? 07:53:27 topo: It is quicker, but perhaps you don't care. 07:53:29 whoiam: read a tutorial. 07:53:40 minion: tell whoiam about pcl 07:53:41 whoiam: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 07:53:50 whoiam to begin use eval to make a program that can create new programs 07:54:12 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:54:13 and dont trust nobody, just follow you own way 07:54:14 whoiam: and don't listen to topo, to begin with. 07:54:46 topo: wasn't it you who just asked for help? 07:54:47 many thanks 07:54:54 np 07:56:05 Wow. 07:56:20 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:58:55 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:59:10 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:00:27 is this fine to install a library? 08:00:35 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :cl-ODE) 08:00:41 -!- H4ns3 [n=hans@p57A0E68C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:00:50 Looks right. 08:00:56 o is install? 08:01:08 (asdf:oos 'asdf:install-op :cl-ODE) 08:03:22 i this somethin is wrong 08:03:25 i got: component "cl-ode" not found 08:03:25 [Condition of type ASDF:MISSING-COMPONENT] 08:03:31 <__death> this doesn't install a system, just loads it 08:03:42 <__death> try (require :asdf-install) (asdf-install:install :cl-ode) 08:03:50 ok 08:04:03 what does require does? 08:04:06 does it downloads? 08:04:42 <__death> clhs require 08:04:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_provid.htm 08:04:48 <__death> the second form will download it 08:04:50 ok thanks 08:05:34 so i just need to do that once? 08:05:45 and then just load the library when i want to use it 08:05:47 <__death> yes.. then you can load it like you wanted to 08:05:56 cool 08:06:35 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:07:16 whats agp? 08:07:23 gpg? 08:07:33 no such program : "gpg" 08:07:56 gnupg 08:11:43 |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E46CEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:18 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:33 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:17:06 kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 08:22:01 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:38:45 kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:41:44 god morning. 08:41:59 indeed, good morning 08:42:17 hello tic 08:42:51 hey, beach. Did I mention I was pondering the possibility of attending ELS right after Bx? 08:43:26 LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:47:10 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-60-222.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 08:48:36 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:52:03 mornin' tic 08:52:54 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-90-188-165.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 08:53:38 hey, schme. I'm nearing completion of my half-assed version of (parts of) CLOS! 08:54:11 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 08:55:23 morning lispers 08:55:39 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:17 tic: I don't remember that you said that, no. That's good news, though. 09:00:59 beach, it'd be fun, I think, if the practicalities could be arranged. 09:01:28 *tic* moves over to the code workspace. 09:02:03 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:04:01 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.137.38] has joined #lisp 09:04:39 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-99.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:05:14 kjfletch [n=kjfletch@94-170-16-78.cable.ubr13.newc.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:06:15 hi? 09:06:25 JackJoke [n=chatzill@host6-83-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:08:12 anyone here? 09:08:36 if i load a library and i get "nil" what does it menas? does it means it loaded the library? 09:08:38 CL-USER> (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :cl-ODE) 09:08:38 NIL 09:09:25 doesn't your library work? 09:09:51 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-99.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 09:09:58 i dont know 09:10:05 but i got errors when i installed it 09:10:16 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:10:50 -!- jocke [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:11:20 so, figure its workingness first 09:15:52 -!- dejai [n=dejai@230.15.233.220.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:21:26 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"] 09:22:45 what doe this means? 09:22:46 Attempt to call an undefined alien function. 09:22:53 alien function? 09:23:06 A function that was not written in Lisp 09:23:37 is this an error? 09:24:04 Trying to call a function that is undefined usually is an error, yes. 09:26:49 (undefined alien functions are taking our computations!) 09:27:53 but i defined before witht this: ODE-TEST> (defcfun ("dInitODE" init-ode) :void) 09:32:05 V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fecade00-157.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:33:07 Wow, I didn't know Symbolics had the oldest registered .com domain. 09:33:20 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:33:21 also the most useless 09:33:50 you can get a lisp machine with that email address, so it isn't so useless. 09:34:38 you can get a lisp machine by purchasing an ARM board 09:34:40 :P 09:41:13 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 09:42:07 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 09:45:12 jocke [n=jocke@dhcp-197-201.nomad.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 09:49:17 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2C46C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:12 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-60-222.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:52:40 josemanuel [n=josemanu@253.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:55:34 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:56:21 sweemeng [n=sweemeng@143.51.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 10:04:23 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2FB69.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 10:06:05 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 10:11:13 younder [i=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 10:12:02 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 10:12:20 hello 10:17:11 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 10:17:29 hello isismelting 10:19:40 how are you, beach? 10:19:51 Not bad. What about yourself? 10:20:55 i can't complain too much - i think i have finished my eliza. 10:21:15 isismelting: is that the reason you came here today? 10:21:20 :) 10:21:26 not in particular 10:21:33 i'm not sure why i came here today 10:21:35 how about you 10:21:47 I come here every day, pretty much. 10:22:19 what server am i on 10:22:30 2600 or the other one 10:22:33 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.133.48] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:23:06 beach - i'll send you a good link, ok? 10:23:10 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.137.38] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:23:26 What is it about? 10:23:47 http://www.meerkat.cc/telegram.mp3 10:24:00 it's a short audio file of relevance to your life in particular. 10:26:43 beach - did you listen 10:27:11 Nope. 10:27:32 It didn't seem related to Lisp. 10:27:46 it's not particularly related to lisp i guess 10:28:21 sorry, i just had a feeling you should hear it. i bet that seems stupid or strange 10:28:28 _workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:28:37 A bit, yes. 10:28:41 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:29:02 -!- m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:29:24 beach - would you like to look at my eliza if you're not busy etc 10:29:27 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@130.226.70.177] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:29:42 paste the code. I might have a quick look. 10:29:45 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:29:48 m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:30:04 can i link you to http://www.meerkat.cc/eliza/ or do you not want to click links 10:30:20 i feel weird pasting the code - it's eliza-a.lsp in that folder 10:30:29 What a strange day this seems to be. 10:31:01 -!- sad0ur_ [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:31:31 why so strange, schme? 10:32:11 isismelting: use three `;' at the top level, and indent the ones with two `;'. 10:32:33 isismelting: and use a single `;' for comments after code on a line. 10:32:53 okay -- thank you! i truly appreciate ANY input! 10:33:34 -!- whoiam [n=who_i_am@123.20.6.96] has quit [] 10:34:06 in you-for-i I would use a dictionary instead, like an alist. 10:34:22 isismelting: also, you can use EQ to compare symbols. 10:34:22 -!- kjfletch [n=kjfletch@94-170-16-78.cable.ubr13.newc.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:34:48 -!- _workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:34:50 isismelting: No it's just #lisp that struck me as odd (: 10:34:52 oh of course - good idea 10:35:03 thanks beach - anything else? 10:35:22 isismelting: nothing that I can see immediately. 10:35:38 _mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:36:01 Oh, the line that starts with (print-sentence is badly indented. 10:36:14 clhs 2.4.4.2 10:36:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_ddb.htm 10:36:24 -!- m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:36:46 arquebus [i=sfd@189.221.2.241] has joined #lisp 10:37:03 -!- arquebus [i=sfd@189.221.2.241] has quit [] 10:37:05 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:37:09 _workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:37:22 -!- sweemeng [n=sweemeng@143.51.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has left #lisp 10:38:10 one question 10:39:24 if i cannot install with (asdf-install:install :cl-ode) how can i do it manually? 10:39:50 topo: We already told you. Download the code and use asdf. 10:39:55 download, and link .asd file to your central registry 10:40:01 i have the code 10:40:20 do i need to compile by myself? 10:40:42 tell asdf to compile it for you 10:40:42 topo: ASDF compiles it for you. 10:40:58 how should i tell ? 10:41:12 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :cl-ode) 10:41:21 ok 10:41:22 topo: You were already told that too. 10:41:58 i thought that command was in the case you have installed sucessfully cl-ode 10:42:16 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:42:22 with (asdf-install:install :cl-ode) 10:42:32 forget about asdf-install 10:43:18 beach - i made the changes you suggested...thank you very much :) 10:44:10 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:02 i get nil 10:45:04 ODE-TEST> (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :cl-ode) 10:45:04 NIL 10:45:24 what do you want to get? 10:45:34 i want to use the library 10:45:44 beach: aside from the use of equal & the poor indentation/commenting, how would you say my code is -- i'm learning by myself so i wonder if i'm on the right track etc... 10:45:54 it seems i have it loaded but when i run the examples i get problems 10:48:24 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 10:49:15 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:50 Adamant_ [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:52 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 10:51:00 -!- Adamant_ [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [No route to host] 10:53:27 -!- JackJoke [n=chatzill@host6-83-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:54:34 what does this means? 10:54:35 Unable to load foreign library: /Users/topo/.sbcl/site/cl-ode/ode-0.8/ode/src/libode.so 10:54:35 [Condition of type CFFI:LOAD-FOREIGN-LIBRARY-ERROR] 10:55:10 this means that it is unable to load foreign library 10:55:11 does the library exist ? 10:55:45 if not maybe you need to run make 10:56:34 topo: are you using OSX ? 10:56:40 yes 10:56:50 topo: shouldn't that .so be a .dylib ? 10:57:24 chris2 [n=chris@p5B168016.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:57:45 -!- crod [n=cmell@x250023.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:57:53 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@253.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 10:58:40 ummmm 10:59:13 i think so is like dll 10:59:16 crod [n=cmell@x250035.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 10:59:36 archangeleon [n=archange@cpe-72-228-162-52.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:59:39 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:59:43 -!- archangeleon [n=archange@cpe-72-228-162-52.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:00:03 Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-91-245.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:02:54 cl-ode doesnt even compile here 11:03:18 bbe [n=bbe@121.229.105.57] has joined #lisp 11:03:20 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 11:03:42 amaron [n=amaron@cable-94-189-243-158.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:04:15 and they include the c++ library in their package 11:04:19 which seems braindamaged 11:04:46 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 11:06:14 xristos cl-ode doesnt work fine? 11:06:50 it does not compile 11:07:15 why? 11:07:24 is there a way of fixing it? 11:07:37 ask the authors 11:07:43 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:08:05 i'd start by removing the foreign library from the lisp binding 11:08:17 it has no place there, i already have ode installed on my system 11:10:45 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:11:50 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:14:47 why do i get this? 11:14:49 error opening #P"/Users/topo/.sbcl/trusted-uids.lisp": Permission denied 11:14:49 [Condition of type SB-INT:SIMPLE-FILE-ERROR] 11:16:03 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:20 yoshinori [n=read_eva@210.253.202.182] has joined #lisp 11:16:41 topo: Guess. 11:16:51 ummmm 11:17:03 because im not as root? 11:17:12 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:17:15 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@89-180-144-131.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 11:17:21 topo: did you look at the permissions on the file? 11:17:28 no 11:17:30 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 11:17:35 where is that? 11:17:49 topo: You need to learn how to use an operating system, it seems. 11:18:02 ummm maybe 11:18:26 permision in which file? the ode library of trusted-uids.lisp? 11:18:42 topo: did you even read the error message? 11:19:00 yes 11:19:11 but i can see the folder .sbcl 11:19:15 i cant find it 11:19:27 *cant 11:19:45 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:08 use the terminal 11:21:10 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 11:21:15 ok 11:21:41 how can i give permisions from terminal? 11:22:39 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.133.48] has joined #lisp 11:22:44 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-194.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:29:31 sohum [n=sohum@burgmann181.anu.edu.au] has joined #lisp 11:29:49 where can I find a good overview of compiling lisp code to native executables? 11:30:19 minion: executables? 11:30:20 executables: creating executables: Newcomers to Lisp often ask how to "create an executable" from their Lisp program. http://www.cliki.net/creating%20executables 11:30:48 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-194.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:30:57 thankee, stassats`. 11:32:19 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 11:32:22 -!- amaron [n=amaron@cable-94-189-243-158.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:38:22 hi 11:38:24 i made this: 11:38:25 chmod +r trusted-uids.lisp 11:38:54 but im still getting : error opening #P"/Users/topo/.sbcl/trusted-uids.lisp": Permission denied 11:38:59 do anybody have an idea? 11:39:20 does users match? 11:39:35 yes 11:40:11 well, does it open it for writing? 11:40:28 what do you mean? 11:40:46 does sbcl want to write something in that file? 11:40:59 how can i know 11:41:07 i.e. chmod +w trusted-uids.lisp 11:41:26 let me try 11:41:28 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@82.83.99.137] has joined #lisp 11:42:28 mayby is:chmod 755 /Users/topo/.sbcl/trusted-uids.lisp? 11:42:41 whatever 11:45:16 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 11:45:52 bbe_ [n=bbe@121.229.105.57] has joined #lisp 11:46:13 -!- bbe [n=bbe@121.229.105.57] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:49:44 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-194.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:54:11 -!- _workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:54:54 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:56:31 -!- _mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:57:29 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 11:57:43 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:58:45 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:03:42 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:03:49 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:06:31 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 12:08:00 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-91-245.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:09:03 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:10:44 Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-112-14.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 12:18:19 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 12:18:44 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:20:35 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:24:06 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 12:25:42 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:25:53 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:42 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:29:01 yangsx [n=yangsx@221.218.210.244] has joined #lisp 12:29:16 bbe [n=bbe@121.229.105.57] has joined #lisp 12:29:26 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:35:49 -!- Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@89-180-144-131.net.novis.pt] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 12:38:54 -!- bbe_ [n=bbe@121.229.105.57] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:41:58 -!- jocke [n=jocke@dhcp-197-201.nomad.chalmers.se] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:42:12 jocke_ [n=jocke@dhcp-197-201.nomad.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 12:45:27 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:24 Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@89.181.98.178] has joined #lisp 12:46:54 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 12:47:12 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.166.169] has joined #lisp 12:47:42 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.166.169] has quit [Client Quit] 12:54:07 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@210.253.202.182] has left #lisp 12:54:49 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:56:55 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:01:21 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:02:14 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:26 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:05:31 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 13:09:03 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:05 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has quit [] 13:10:30 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 13:12:02 phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 13:13:33 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:13:41 lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:20:21 hi, can I print an sbcl stack trace? 13:21:05 If you have a printer, sure! 13:21:14 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 13:22:47 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-132-240.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:23:17 there's a printer in REPL already, so this one is assured 13:24:19 basically, new Exception().printStackTrace() equivalent from a very popular language that a lot of us use everyday. 13:24:29 question: I'm trying save-lisp-and-die method of generating an image, but there seem to be 32bit/64bit incompatibilities 13:24:38 beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-130-21.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:25:07 is there a way to, say, force sbcl to run in 32bit mode? 13:25:08 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-45-11-54.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:28:49 Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:37 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EC10.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:01 sohum: if you use a 32-bit build of sbcl, it will run in 32-bit mode 13:30:14 if you use a 64-bit build, it will run in 64 bits 13:30:19 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:30 iow, there is no way to get a 64bit sbcl build to run in 32bit mode. 13:31:05 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.133.48] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:31:11 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:34:04 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 13:35:01 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-118-106.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:35:04 -!- beach`` is now known as beach 13:35:15 antifuchs: is there a way to get the 32bit build of sbcl to use the same system-wide packages and sitewide packages as the 64bit version? 13:35:30 are you running on linux? 13:35:44 most distributions offer 32bit compat packages for that sort of thing 13:37:06 antifuchs: yes, but I can't seem to find, say, an sbcl32 package. I could go download the 32bit deb manually, but installing that would overwrite my 64bit install 13:37:33 hm, you can get a binary build from http://www.sbcl.org 13:37:42 these tend to be more up-to-date than distro packages anyway (: 13:38:05 you can install that one anywhere you like (I often go for somewhere in the home directory), and use it as sbcl32 13:38:30 catface [n=email@93-97-25-170.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:41:34 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-132-240.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:41:41 amaron [n=amaron@cable-94-189-243-158.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:42:16 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 13:42:21 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 13:43:14 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:36 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:16 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has joined #lisp 13:44:59 antifuchs: but that doesn't read the same system-wide packages 13:47:05 LostMonarch [n=roby@host9-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:50:14 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:52:20 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-152-75.vologda.ru] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 13:53:29 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:58 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-152-75.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:56:26 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1D22E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:18 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1D7F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:58:46 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@221.218.210.244] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:01:33 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #lisp 14:05:43 josemanuel [n=josemanu@253.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:09:36 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has 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Emacs)"] 15:39:02 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:39:37 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-71.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:39:46 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 15:41:54 don't recognize component type DOCUDOWN-SOURCE 15:41:54 [Condition of type ASDF::FORMATTED-SYSTEM-DEFINITION-ERROR] 15:42:01 installing cl-containers 15:42:14 anyone know a quick fix before I go on a long googling quest? 15:43:10 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:43:15 -!- sunwukong [n=vukung@125.14.81.151] has quit ["bye"] 15:44:13 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host9-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 15:44:29 oh, gking is just splitting packages again 15:47:07 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:54 hahaha, gking did it again 15:48:35 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:49:08 I wonder how such things went on a lispm... 15:54:05 hi again, is there any way to access programmatically stack trace type information? the same that you see in slime's debugger. I have an execute-sql function that is called from everywhere, and I would like to put information in a log who called it. 15:54:54 puchacz: it is implementation dependent. 15:55:18 beach: I run it on SBCL 15:55:49 (apropos "BACKTRACE") 15:56:03 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:56:31 thank you very much :-) 15:57:06 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:39 is drakma generally preferred to trivial-http for http interactions? 16:02:08 Fade: what do you care ? try them both 16:04:30 i'm just asking if anybody has an oppinion on the choice. 16:04:42 'cept, you know, spelled correctly. 16:06:04 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:06:14 Fade: I haven't used trivial-http, but I can say that dispite all it's many options, Drakma is easy to use in the trivial case (just snatching the contents of a URL) 16:07:35 thanks 16:07:42 tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has joined #lisp 16:08:36 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:52 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:15:47 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:19:51 Fade: you know, in the lisp world there's not so much of a flock to follow. We're few enough (once you remove the respective creators of the libraries under consideration) so that if you have such a question, you're the best placed to answer it. 16:20:28 Lisp: not for the flock followers. 16:21:30 lol 16:22:21 there's ruby for that :) 16:22:56 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:23:22 kwoi 16:23:29 oops 16:23:32 can I check whether a symbol is bound to a function in a given package? not necesserily current package 16:23:35 since when is asking for an opinion on the quality of a piece of software following a flock? I think you assume too much. ;) 16:25:12 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:25:22 puchacz: if you can access the symbol you can ask whether it is fboundp 16:25:33 so, for example (fboundp 'package-in-question::symbol-name) 16:25:35 pjb: quack quack quack ;-) 16:25:54 Krystof, thanks, I was exactly after a function equivalent of boundp 16:31:16 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:32:05 rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:47 hi, could someone help me configure mod_lisp 16:35:45 rullie: for the pain, it would be better to use hunchentoot... 16:37:32 but i already have apache listening on 80 16:38:27 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:49 unless you have a specific need for mod_lisp, I'd recommend just proxying using mod_proxy 16:39:10 so... is mod_lisp + tbnl a bad combo 16:39:58 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E457EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:31 it is an old combo (I'd be surprised if it were supported in any sense) 16:42:02 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:42:42 so mod_proxy and hunchentoot 16:42:57 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-60.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:44:04 should've asked here first before getting tnbl all up and running 16:45:13 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:45:49 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:47:00 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:47:11 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 16:49:48 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:04 -!- amaron [n=amaron@cable-94-189-243-158.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:51:08 rullie: the good news is that hunchentoot is tbnl's successor 16:51:21 you could also use mod_proxy to tbnl, couldn't you? 16:51:37 Krystof: that's very true 16:52:52 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1D22E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["quit"] 16:54:05 *Fade* laughs at rsynnott's blog post on SOAP 16:55:56 -!- |stern| [n=seelenqu@pD9E46CEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:56:21 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:58:45 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:00:18 jestocost [n=cmell@x250007.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 17:01:19 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E457EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:03:51 segv [n=mb@p4FC1D22E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:02 -!- crod [n=cmell@x250035.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:08:06 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:09:15 matley [n=matley@83.224.185.251] has joined #lisp 17:10:03 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:55 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:12:46 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 17:12:53 heh. The worst thing is that it's beloved "enterprise" tools 17:12:55 *tool 17:13:00 -!- jocke_ [n=jocke@dhcp-197-201.nomad.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lämnar"] 17:13:06 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:45 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:14:07 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:29 -!- pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:14:31 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 17:15:16 unfortunately, everyone seems to be using Java/.NET interface -> autogen. WSDL way... cause writing a stupid schema etc. by hand and using message model instead of rpc might make them *think* and require them to write parsers >_> 17:15:37 pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:24 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 17:27:02 parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:21 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:28:06 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:52 -!- nekobaka [n=baka@c-76-29-163-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 17:32:43 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 17:33:25 -!- deep is now known as Guest64436 17:33:28 antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:40:10 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:48 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.166.169] has quit ["Two heads are more than one!"] 17:42:35 qbg [n=quickbas@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 17:43:02 Does anyone know why the SBCL website does not yet reflect 1.0.26? 17:43:26 because no one edited it? 17:44:53 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:18 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 17:47:00 -!- cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:47:28 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:47:51 is there any good guide for using lisp + various libraries with windows? i find it very confusing 17:49:52 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 17:49:59 jocke_ [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has joined #lisp 17:51:33 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 17:51:52 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:47 cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has joined #lisp 17:56:16 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:34 jlf` [n=user@adsl-76-253-93-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:18 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:59:53 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 18:03:19 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@253.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 18:03:36 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:45 lispm [n=joswig@e177145098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:03:57 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:22 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 18:05:37 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 18:06:25 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:40 arunmib [n=arunmib@c-76-105-99-46.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:59 -!- arunmib [n=arunmib@c-76-105-99-46.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:07:12 tombom: there are few starter packs that come preloaded with all kinds of libraries 18:07:29 tombom: But on win32, unless you go commercial, common lisp is hard :) 18:09:23 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:09:28 -!- kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:10:09 -!- qbg [n=quickbas@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]"] 18:11:48 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:10 yeah that's what i thought 18:12:11 oh well! 18:12:18 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:16:25 milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.134] has joined #lisp 18:17:22 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EC10.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:17:28 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:33 imajes [n=authenti@85-127-39-171.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 18:19:05 tombom: Well, you can use allegro free edition or lispworks personal edition 18:19:28 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 18:20:15 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:20:17 bdowning_ [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:15 -!- bdowning_ is now known as bdowning 18:21:31 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:21:31 -!- jlf` [n=user@adsl-76-253-93-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:21:51 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 18:21:58 tombom: if you want cheap lisp that works quite well on windows, Corman seems to be a good choice, though it lacks certain features 18:22:22 hello 18:22:42 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:10 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:24:13 -!- imajes is now known as authentic 18:24:24 ok thanks 18:27:07 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit ["HULK ANGRY! HULK DISCONNECT!"] 18:27:47 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 18:28:01 LostMonarch [n=roby@host9-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:29:33 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:30:03 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.244.217] has joined #lisp 18:30:15 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 18:33:48 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:34:09 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:34 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 18:37:24 imajes [n=authenti@85-127-40-234.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 18:39:50 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:15 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 18:41:53 [ev] [n=niklas@ua-83-227-230-90.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:43:04 pstickne_ [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:53 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:59 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:52:02 -!- imajes is now known as authentic 18:52:07 disumu [n=disumu@p54BCD347.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:26 josemanuel [n=josemanu@253.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:55:38 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:57:24 -!- pstickne_ [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:58:43 gueux [n=g@d193-152-246.home3.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:47 hi 19:00:32 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:00:52 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:02:05 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:03:39 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 19:05:25 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:08:00 # # 19:08:00 [Condition of type SIMPLE-CONDITION] 19:08:15 that should be in the encyclopaedia under the head "opaque" 19:08:50 -!- jfactor [n=john@student165-147.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:09:29 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EC10.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:54 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:12:10 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:23 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:13:47 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:14:09 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- keithr [n=keithr@ip68-13-249-183.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- kefka [n=user@ec2-75-101-205-165.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- ilitirit [n=john@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- luis [n=user@r42.eu] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@hygiene.bl0rg.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:14:09 -!- eirik [i=eirikald@tvilling.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:15:00 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-148-234.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:15:36 I have a function foo which can be applied to a variable number of values: (foo val1 val2 ...) is there a way to define another function foo2 like that: (foo2 '(val1 val2 ...)) = (foo val1 val2 ...)? 19:18:14 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 keithr [n=keithr@ip68-13-249-183.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 ilitirit [n=john@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 manuel_ [n=manuel@hygiene.bl0rg.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 kefka [n=user@ec2-75-101-205-165.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 luis [n=user@r42.eu] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 eirik [i=eirikald@tvilling.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 -!- irc.freenode.net has set mode +o drewc 19:20:12 (defun foo2 (vars) (apply 'foo vars)) 19:20:12 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:20:14 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 19:20:16 -!- topo [n=topo@87.223.39.79] has quit [] 19:20:19 ok 19:20:28 thanks, I didn't think it was so easy :-) 19:20:32 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:47 jfactor [n=john@student165-40.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 19:25:42 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:04 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 19:32:38 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:03 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 19:36:36 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p54BCD347.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 19:36:51 is common-lisp.net so patchy for anyone else too? 19:36:56 I can't connect to it atm 19:38:34 Uh. 19:38:54 Not only can I not ping it, but my pings don't get very far from any of the four (geographically and topologically distant) hosts I'm trying to ping it from. 19:40:11 uh-huh 19:40:14 I think somebody broke the internet. I'll call tech support. 19:43:22 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:44:06 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Network is unreachable] 19:44:10 doesn't specbot run on c-l.net too? 19:44:13 oh, and lisppaste 19:44:24 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:44:26 Looks like somebody deleted all the routes to 208.72.159.0/24, owned by `Redrocks', from whom presumably tech.coop's IP addresses are allocated. 19:45:06 that doesn't sound like a happy thing 19:45:50 *boink* 19:46:01 Routes are back. 19:46:04 yay 19:46:31 black hole routing? :) 19:47:10 -!- iStig [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:47:17 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-62-149.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:20 -!- matley [n=matley@83.224.185.251] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:50:45 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:55:14 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:55:14 kuhzoo1 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:36 -!- schme is now known as schmx 20:00:19 netfrog [n=ilya@line106-24.adsl.actcom.co.il] has joined #lisp 20:01:21 -!- netfrog [n=ilya@line106-24.adsl.actcom.co.il] has quit [Client Quit] 20:06:52 bgp recalc. 20:07:27 if it's an advertisement for a /24, there are a few backbone networks that will dampen the advertisements for networks that small. 20:11:11 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 20:11:47 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:13:48 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:13:54 what is the name of quo (the division in |N) in lisp? 20:14:34 i don't get you 20:14:48 clhs floor 20:15:00 gueux: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_floorc.htm 20:15:02 specbot went AWOL when common-lisp.net exploded. 20:15:06 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 20:16:36 gueux: you probably want either FLOOR or TRUNCATE 20:16:47 doing the exercises in A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation: I've defuned suit and rank, now I'm doing (defun count-suit (suit hand) ...) and it thinks suit is the function. how can I fix this? or is it bad to have the first parameter of a function the same name as a function? 20:16:47 although I do wish that weblocks.veridian-project.de wouldn't disappear every odd numbered day. :P 20:17:18 I think it is truncate 20:17:30 but it gives me two values 20:17:55 gueux: just don't use the second one 20:18:03 this happens automatically in CL 20:18:07 or mod 20:18:16 hrmn. trac.common-lisp.net is still down. 20:18:16 oh, no, wait 20:18:47 sorry, floor or truncate was right 20:18:48 Fade: trac is always down cause it's a blooddy POS 20:18:53 i feex 20:19:51 that should do it. 20:19:55 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 20:19:56 *H4ns* kicked the bots 20:20:37 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 20:20:52 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:21:17 well, it works fine for internal projects; it seems to have some sacaling issues. 20:22:44 s/saca/sca 20:24:10 ok thanks :-) 20:24:15 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:42 *iaindalton* figured out his problem. he typed defvar instead of defun. seriously... 20:25:15 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:25:41 parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:46 drewc: from the trac index page, cl-webocks is showing an error; is that because it's reaching out to a resource on weblocks.veridian-project.de? 20:25:49 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:55 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:00 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 20:26:44 bdowning_ [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:27 Fade: -rw-r--r-- 1 sakhmechet www-data 5120408 2009-03-02 08:09 /custom/sys/trac/trac/projects/cl-weblocks/log/trac.log 20:27:27 20:27:36 it's probably trying to write the file. 20:27:42 as www-data. 20:28:19 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:28:43 -!- bdowning_ is now known as bdowning 20:29:05 Fade: I have no idea if this was done on purpose or not, so i'm not going to touch it :) 20:29:11 heh 20:29:37 Fade: ucw is better anyway, it's no big loss. :P 20:29:43 drewc: i'd say: fix it. 20:30:31 H4ns: well, that's two votes to one, i fix. 20:30:38 well, the on going unavailable site issue is certainly cutting down on weblocks "I already know it" advantage. :P 20:31:41 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:31:47 parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:02 drewc: what's the relationship between UCW and lisp on lines? 20:32:38 Fade: UCW is an HTTP abstraction framework, LoL is an HTML/js abstraction framework. 20:32:50 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:33:09 well, LoL is just a way of describing an interface. 20:33:24 UCW just happens to be its main target. 20:34:04 if i was doing Desktop GUI's, i's still be using LoL/ 20:34:06 . 20:34:19 i was just working on a simple elephant driven web frob. 20:35:20 the universe is conspiring to throw me in the yak pen with the clippers. 20:36:35 Basically, LoL is a way of describing how an object should be displayed in various different contexts. UCW is one of those contexts. adding the UCW and EDITABLE descriptions together will render an object as a form.. adding the INLINE description to that will do it on a single line, etc. 20:37:05 cool 20:37:14 google isn't showing me where LoL lives 20:37:24 any by object i mean lisp object, not just CLOS. 20:37:59 /project/lisp-on-lines/ :) 20:38:00 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:38:33 "this is an automatically generated placeholder page: this project has not yet created a website." 20:38:40 sort of ironic. :) 20:38:45 I always plan to release and document it, but i've never convinced a client to pay for that and i'd rather be sailing. 20:39:06 i'd rather be sailing, too, but I'm willing to read the source code. 20:39:12 are there any examples? 20:39:19 Fade: there are some vids available of LoL, I believe (but AFAIK, it isn't just describing how an object should be displayed) 20:39:36 I'd like to divide a list into two lists depending of the result of a predicate apply to the elements of the first list: (divide #'atom mylist) should return two lists list-atom and list-not-atoms 20:39:41 i saw drew's VanLisp presentation. 20:39:52 which one? :) 20:39:53 is there a clean way to do that? 20:40:12 well, I saw the one where you do reddit in LoL 20:41:01 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-148-234.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:41:24 gueux: (loop for object in list :if (atomp object) :collect object into list-atom :else :collect object into list-not-atoms :finally (return (list list-atoms list-not-atoms))) 20:41:33 (untested) 20:41:35 drewc: LoL is your work? 20:41:38 waw 20:41:41 madnificent: T 20:41:42 haha 20:41:49 that is not easy 20:42:27 drewc: is there a public repo? 20:42:29 (list (remove-if #'atom list) (remove-if-not #'atom list)) 20:42:39 there is no function "select" in lisp? 20:42:40 ok 20:42:46 stassats`: that's not easy on your CPU :) 20:42:50 drewc: wow, you have a rails background? 20:42:51 that's good 20:43:00 madnificent: no, never touched it.. why? 20:43:02 the lists are not too big :-) 20:43:13 Fade: yeah, i'm not sure of the url .. hold. 20:43:30 drewc: that's ok, it loves to work 20:43:37 drewc: oh, I thought you were trying to do the clean equivalent in lisp (don't know who told me that, but I think it was here) 20:44:03 LoL doesn't have much in common with rails. 20:44:28 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 20:44:30 madnificent: no, i think rails is a piece of shite to be quite honest. LoL is like an anti-rails. 20:45:09 'never touched it' and 'think rails is a piece of shit' is a strange combination though :) 20:45:31 madnificent: 'never touched it' and 'think lisp is a piece of shit' is fairly common 20:45:44 Fade: http://common-lisp.net/project/lisp-on-lines/repo/ 20:45:51 dlowe: which makes my statement unreasonable because? 20:46:05 thansk 20:46:07 (let (list-2) (list (remove-if (lambda (x) (when (atom x) (push x list-2))) list) list-2)) 20:46:09 er, thanks 20:46:12 madnificent: i've read the docs and played around, followed the mailing lists and asked the important questions./ 20:46:12 madnificent: I implied your statement was unreasonable how? 20:46:17 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:46:48 parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:50 rails makes it trivial to do the trivial stuff. 20:47:19 i think the corollary of that is, it makes the more difficult stuff more difficult. 20:47:22 Fade: I found it to be fairly flexible towards stuff it wasn't intended to cope with (though indeed, it could be done much better) 20:47:29 madnificent: i think the approach is wrong for web applications, and correct for web pages. I don't make web pages. 20:47:54 in other words, i want the FIRST, not the REST :D 20:47:56 dlowe: no, I guess not... I must've misinterpreted it 20:48:36 drewc: sounds constructive, could you explain it in a few more words? 20:49:18 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:49:29 the last time I looked at rails, the network wasn't the bottleneck. 20:49:50 it had massive perfromance problems, and seemed to leak memory. 20:50:01 Fade: the last time I looked at rails, I was insainly productive, but still wanted rails :) 20:50:12 jesus. i wish I could type today. 20:50:14 darn, still wanted lisp 20:50:20 Fade: same here, apparantly :) 20:50:38 madnificent: i'm having typing issues today as well .. i blame PDT. 20:50:55 i woke up early thinking it was late and it' 20:51:01 s been downhill from there. 20:51:03 Fade: never had performance issues with it, ruby is quite slow, but the database is the real performance issue with most apps, so... 20:51:07 drewc: PDT? 20:51:17 pacific daylight time 20:51:20 madnificent: Pacific Daylight Time 20:51:36 north america went to daylight savings time last night. 20:51:53 ahhh, they do the same thing in europe... so confusing... 20:52:05 i agree, quite odd. 20:52:12 oh, that time of the year already 20:52:13 I live at night anyways, stop changing the name of the hour I'm living in 20:52:50 well, LoL docs/examples would be awesome. 20:52:52 heh 20:53:17 madnificent: So, first off i think that the generating templates approach is broken. Secondly, i think ActiveRecord is broken in that you are much too intimately tied to your DB. 20:53:32 those are minor issues. 20:53:37 iStig [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:54:08 the most important issue is that it still makes you think about forms, GET, POST, HTTP, and all that crap that i couldn't care about. :) 20:54:34 drewc: I'm interested too. I'm building cl-aymore (micro-framework which might be interconnectable with LoL), anything that helps/makes it faster/clearer to code in, is more than welcome 20:55:07 drewc: I agree, i'd rather not program for the web at all, ever. 20:55:13 drewc: generators is broken by design. AR isn't tied to the database actually, its just the standard 'default' representation of it 20:56:09 drewc: thinking about get/post/... should be resolved with REST, yet it may indeed not be worked out thoroughly enough 20:56:36 i like the notion of display adapters for specific objects. 20:56:36 madnificent: I think that HTTP sucks for applications, and REST is really just HTTP. 20:56:39 replace that may, it will not work for more complicated structures and is thus rendered useless in some cases 20:57:39 *madnificent* likes to specify the URL of a certain page, but perhaps a hybrid approach would be way better 20:57:59 ok, tell you what. If you download and install LoL, i'll walk you through the basics, and use that as the start of some docs. 20:58:04 drewc: Unfortunately, now not only some stupid companies (like my accommodation) believe that WWW is the only thing on internet, but also some governments (Australia? :D) 20:58:08 which is why I liked the widgets abstraction in weblocks. 20:58:49 drewc: starting with an ordered list of it's dependencies, would be awesome. 20:59:08 drewc: how long will the install take? and if Fade joins me, I'll do it :D 20:59:20 you guys using clbuild? :) 20:59:25 no 20:59:25 I am. 20:59:49 i'd be willing to write a LoL clause for wnpp-projects 21:00:08 Fade: Already have it, just havn't commited it.. hold on i paste. 21:00:44 I'm willing to see how I can integrate LoL and try to go hybrid (unless I really like LoL that much, that I'm not moving out to anything else anymore) 21:01:08 drewc: without clbuild, how do I find/install the dependencies? 21:01:38 drewc pasted "clbuild wnpp-projects for UCW/LOL and MaxClaims" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76666 21:02:06 madnificent: well, you can start with that paste as well 21:02:59 madnificent: or just do what i usually do.. load the asdf system and wait for the error .. download package and repeat. 21:03:13 I try not to use patched or non-standard lisp libraries. 21:03:27 is everything asdf-installable? 21:03:43 hells no, i'd venture to say nothing is. 21:04:14 it's clbuildable :) 21:04:24 drewc: good 21:05:08 I never got around to use that... Why isn't there a 'simple' standard way 21:05:10 i think clbuild is broken by design, but since it automates what i do manually, and there is no lisp distribution yet, its the lesser evil. 21:05:26 madnificent: clbuild is the simple standard way these days. 21:05:57 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:06:09 drewc: well, say for cl-opencl, I needed to use cl-librarian, and then there is asdf-install, mudballs (which wal fairly nice), and I just know there are others 21:06:17 ** know, because it is lisp 21:07:40 madnificent: i've used cl-librarian and asdf-install. Mudballs tries to do way too much and achieves to little for the effort, and clbuild just works. 21:07:54 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host9-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 21:08:00 cl-librarian is also a neat idea, but i was not a fan of the codebase last time i looked. 21:08:12 -!- PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:08:17 -!- rey_ [i=pdewacht@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:08:36 drewc: as the author himself said 'not finished, but useable' (cl-librarian) 21:08:51 I went so far as to fork and create a similar project with 'cleaner' (which to me means CLOSier) code, and then abandonded it when i realized that doing it in lisp was probably the wrong approach. 21:08:53 PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 21:09:07 or at least doing it _all_ in lisp. 21:09:28 rey_ [i=pdewacht@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 21:09:40 is there a place in clbuild where you have to register the dependencies for a specific target besides wnpp-projects? 21:09:53 *p_l* was considering doing it all in shell scripts + makefiles ... :P 21:10:39 i know fare is working on something, too 21:10:45 xcvb 21:11:20 xcvb afaik was concentrated only on being a build system 21:11:38 well, there's overlap in the dependency graphing. 21:11:42 DrTilt [n=browning@adsl-75-36-5-64.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:51 Fade: yeah, actually you have to `clbuild record-dependencies` 21:11:55 I think this is one of the things that keeps me from being productive in lisp 21:12:14 madnificent: you should be using clbuild then...this is a non-issue 21:12:34 ahh. thanks 21:12:39 -!- DrTilt [n=browning@adsl-75-36-5-64.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 21:12:39 drewc: http://almaer.com/blog/lisp-on-lines-takes-on-ruby-on-rails please attack this, if LoL is not going to be Rails :) 21:13:07 madnificent: scroll down 21:13:13 drewc: no, because it is always yet another redirection to be doing something useful (that's how I currently feel about it) 21:13:15 appletizer [i=user@82-45-11-54.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:13:21 drewc: sorry 21:13:58 minion: someone may have some message for me... 21:13:58 attila_lendvai: can you be more specific? 21:14:29 madnificent: well, you have three choices : use what's available and be productive, don't use anything and complain about being non-productive, or write your own. 21:14:42 the later will be productive, in that you will be producing code .. 21:15:00 -!- jocke_ [n=jocke@witychu.khg.sgsnet.se] has quit ["Lämnar"] 21:15:13 madnificent: in the time you've taken here in IRC, you could have installed it already :) 21:15:24 attila_lendvai: I customized the fixtures in stefil to bind values to lexical variables, and it works pretty well. It lacks the purity of having a fixture be a function, though 21:15:33 attila_lendvai: a single function, I mean 21:15:38 drewc: I've tried all three, yet without an agreement upon one system, it quickly gets messy. Say, I've tried (and really liked) mudballs, but the lack of support for it renders it useless 21:15:47 drewc: I'm installing it manually :) 21:15:48 *Fade* watches clbuild drag in dependencies 21:16:03 madnificent: lisp-on-lines alexandria arnesi bordeaux-threads cl-base64 cl-fad cl-mime cl-ppcre cl-qprint closer-mop contextl iterate lift local-time lw-compat net-telent-date parenscript parse-number portable-threads puri rfc2109 slime split-sequence trivial-garbage ucw usocket yaclml 21:16:03 21:16:18 drewc: its all in the paste, I assume 21:16:22 that's what clbuild has determined 21:16:32 madnificent: no, it's not.. clbuild does that automatically. 21:16:35 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:41 drewc: what should I load to see if I missed something? 21:16:57 dlowe: ok, send stuff to the list if you have something that does what you want 21:17:13 madnificent: loading ucw is probably step 1. If ucw and contextl load, lol should load as well. 21:17:24 attila_lendvai: once I fix the self tests :) 21:17:36 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 21:17:41 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-45-11-54.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:17:49 madnificent: clbuild really is a convenience; it's probably futile to resist. 21:18:35 Fade: okay, give me a quick introduction then? So I can start using it for this... 21:18:39 madnificent: i like mudballs idea of versioning, and of storing those versions. I think there was absolutely no need to replace ASDF (it's quite extensible), and that renders the entire project worse-than-useless. ASDF is not all that broken. 21:19:13 attila_lendvai: poke 21:19:39 drewc: mudballs was handy for the installation system (and when I show someone new they have to do (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :my-system) they kind of go insane (yes, it is clear, but it should really be more straight-forward) 21:19:54 drewc: what the rails kids did right was 'sensible defaults' 21:19:59 attila_lendvai: cl-perec is being a bitch to me, I can't get it to run (I attempted to create a clean dir containing just its deps, y'see) 21:20:07 you mean ,l RET at the slime repl... right> 21:20:08 ? 21:20:16 drewc: and yes, I'll follow you for cl-build as darcs didn't get everything, somehow) 21:20:29 i have not typed (asdf:... at a repl in 4 years 21:20:50 madnificent: http://paste.lisp.org/display/76667 21:21:21 skip the sbcl build lines if you don't want to build sbcl. 21:21:27 madnificent: once you install clbuild, take a peek at the mcclim listened... if clicking on an asdf system is not easy i don't know what is :) 21:21:34 mathrick pasted "cl-perec woes" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76668 21:21:51 attila_lendvai: I can't quite make any sense of it 21:21:52 -!- [ev] [n=niklas@ua-83-227-230-90.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Lämnar"] 21:22:00 Fade: the code to update sbcl and installs slime isn't needed, right? (not willing to mess up my current installation) 21:22:12 madnificent: it will not mess up your current installation. 21:22:28 drewc: it will update my sbcl-implementation and/or slime? 21:22:34 madnificent: no. 21:22:38 it isn't needed, but that will build a self contained image if you choose to try it. 21:22:43 what will it do? 21:22:48 it will update _its_ sbcl and slime. 21:22:53 *attila_lendvai* looks 21:23:06 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.28] has joined #lisp 21:23:24 attila_lendvai: it 21:23:26 err 21:23:43 i tend to bootstrap my lisp dev environment with a system packaged sbcl, and then use clbuild to manage lisp images per project. 21:23:52 attila_lendvai: it's true that there's no mapping method defined for 'IP-ADDRESS, but I don't get where it gets that from in the first place 21:24:12 -!- jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:24:22 Fade: i do something similar yeah .. each of my projects has an executable image, and i rebuild it almost daily. 21:24:32 aye 21:24:49 Fade: this is a great approach to take with lol until i fix the description loader. 21:25:05 cool. 21:25:05 as LoL code is currently slow when compling. 21:25:12 it'd work for me at any rate. 21:25:30 exponentially so actually .. so my large project takes some 7 minutes to compile now :( 21:25:45 once it gets up to 10 or so, i'll fix the issue :) 21:26:08 the issue with clbuild is that all these projects living in revision control seem to go awry too often. 21:26:18 actually .. the core is due to be re-written using DYNAMIC-WIND 21:26:27 Fade: yup, that's a problem. 21:26:39 drewc: what persistency store do you use? 21:26:40 my clbuild record-dependencies just failed on cl-opengl 21:26:56 madnificent: the best there is available. POSTGRESQL 21:27:09 madnificent: i have my own o/r mapping on top of that. 21:27:11 i've been using elephant lately. 21:27:25 with postres 21:27:29 drewc: so I'll need to install pgsql in order to do the tutorial? (not a problem) 21:27:48 madnificent: no, lol does not require any datastore. 21:28:04 ah, I like that approach 21:28:09 However, if we are going to go that far, and we probably should, then yeah. 21:28:27 madnificent: LoL does not even require the web .. it works fairly well at the REPL even. 21:28:35 this is nice for testing purposes. 21:28:39 how long do you expect the tutorial to take? 21:28:41 cool 21:28:58 mathrick: pull perec, does that help? 21:29:01 madnificent: the basics are maybe 20 minutes. 21:29:06 Fade, drewc: My idea for clbuild replacement was a set of commands to manipulate a "store" of lisp code and commands to manage projects, which would have their own ASDF repository and either links to central store or copies :) 21:29:08 drewc: I tried to decouple as much as possible too. There is just too much to foresee 21:29:14 madnificent: trying to wrap your head around them .. hours :) 21:29:21 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:43 drewc: I have to have sent a mail within an hour and thirty minutes, if we get around that point, I'll move away for a second 21:29:44 p_l: i want apt-get. if that's what you are describing, that's what i want! :) 21:29:57 how do I install lol with clbuild? 21:30:10 (bugging you guys with stupid questions, sorry) 21:30:28 madnificent: first you add my paste the the wnpp-projects file, then do ./clbuild record-dependencies, then ./clbuild install lisp-on-lines. 21:30:35 drewc: I can't give you apt get, but I hope for making something similar :D 21:30:46 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 21:30:47 clbuild sort of needs a site to proxy everything it covers, to protect the end user from the vagaries of seven or eight different revision control systems at scores of different hosts. 21:30:51 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177145098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 21:31:06 Or we need something like Haskell's cabal 21:31:18 p_l: nyef and myself have the beginnings of what we want written down somewhere. If you'd like to get involved i can point you to our manifesto. 21:31:38 jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 21:31:41 Fade: like apt sources! 21:31:47 drewc: Show me your manifesto, I'll see if I want to be involved _after_ I read the paper I'm signing :P 21:32:05 drewc: yes 21:32:27 forcing all those version control systems out to the leaves as dependencies of the lib manager is sort of silly. 21:32:42 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 21:32:49 plus, atm, I can't do a record-dependencies because clbuild doesn't fail on an update elegantly and there's one project blocking me. 21:33:13 -!- iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:33:39 p_l: ~abridgewater/lisp-distro.txt on cl-net 21:34:22 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:08 Fade: that sucks. 21:35:14 yes. it does. :P 21:35:32 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 21:35:37 Fade: just comment it out from projects and try again? 21:35:42 Fade: can't you do ./clbuild skip [projectname]? 21:35:45 jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:03 drewc: by cl-net you mean common-lisp.net? 21:36:12 p_l: indeed. 21:36:19 Krystof: i'm just running a pass after that command. I'll know in about 15 mins 21:36:25 p_l: if you don't have an account, now would be the time to get one :D 21:36:48 drewc: cause I see "the requested url does not exist" :D 21:37:18 p_l: indeed, it's not on the WWW, but on the box :) 21:37:32 *Fade* requests an account 21:38:48 Fade: send an email to the queue with your GPG key attached. 21:38:50 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:38:53 or inlined is suppose. 21:39:12 which queue? addressed to you? 21:39:24 that's how you get new users? 21:39:29 admin@common-lisp.net should get you there. 21:39:55 attila_lendvai: sec, lemme try that 21:40:16 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 21:41:28 -!- repnop [n=repnop@adsl-69-226-99-176.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:41:35 drewc: I think I can log into cl-net, but I can't find where (strange) 21:42:42 attila_lendvai: btw, I get The variable SWANK::*INSPECTOR-DWIM-LOOKUP-HOOKS* is unbound. when I first load cl-perec-test.* 21:42:51 reloading it makes it go away, but it's annoying 21:43:16 is it something related to me not using your version of SLIME? And if so, could you fix it? 21:44:12 H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0FAF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:30 mathrick: i'll address that... that feature was removed from slime after i we stopped updating 21:44:41 ah 21:44:45 H4ns3 [n=hans@p57A0FAF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:46 yeah, I remember that 21:44:51 it was a bit silly 21:45:07 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0E68C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:45:09 -!- H4ns3 is now known as H4ns 21:46:00 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:46:12 attila_lendvai: btw, what's the blessed way of setting up the connection params for cl-perec tests? 21:46:48 attila_lendvai: okay, tried pulling, still the same error 21:47:31 mathrick: where does that error come from? i can't identify the source... 21:47:52 mathrick: i mean the dwim lookup hook stuff 21:47:52 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:14 attila_lendvai: lemme try pinpointing it 21:48:33 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:34 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:05 attila_lendvai: oh, btw, loading perec alone yields warnings about "undefined type: CL-PEREC::IP-ADDRESS" 21:51:29 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:44 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.189.134] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:52:38 Fade: how did you skip the cl-opengl build? 21:54:00 i commented it out of the wnpp-projects file. 21:54:22 in theory ./clbuild skip cl-opengl 21:54:24 also works. 21:54:26 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:55:03 antgreen [n=green@CPE001310a5e799-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:51 -!- aggieben [n=chatzill@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:55:53 Fade: after making the directory, it did :) 21:58:18 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:01:03 Fade. madnificent: I just posted the deps to the clbuild mailing list, so hopefully this is the last time anybody will have to go through this. 22:01:23 cool 22:03:17 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0E68C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:05:19 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 22:07:06 drewc: should I install anything besides lisp-on-lines? 22:09:37 madnificent: that should do it. 22:09:48 repnop [n=repnop@adsl-69-226-99-176.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:26 drewc: is it anywhere near normal that it said "no dependencies for lisp-on-lines found" ? 22:11:06 madnificent: that's no good. are you sure they're its in your wnpp-projects and record-dependencies worked properly? 22:11:43 i have no idea why they're its means .. 22:11:49 what .. what it means 22:12:04 drewc: record-dependencies gets a whole range of repositories (running it again) 22:12:04 my looks around with a 'i dunno' face. 22:12:22 madnificent: it's also supposed to, record dependencies! 22:12:50 yes, but it did that the first time too... just saying what I see in order to ensure that I get it running correctly 22:15:40 yes yes. apt for lisp. 22:15:55 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:16:23 Fade: only apt doesn't need to fetch the library, in order to discover what it needs to build it :) 22:16:35 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-112-14.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:16:41 Fade: s/the library/the library in advance/ 22:16:47 -!- Kenjin_ [n=Kenjin@89.181.98.178] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 22:16:54 well, that's because all of the debian metadata is statically generated by the packe maintainer. 22:17:10 one of the primary reasons why the debian metadata is inconsistent. ;) 22:18:47 Fade: wouldn't it be possible to generate the needed package of a certain library by the asd and the version the maintainer of the library is using for the project? 22:18:51 madnificent: yeah, something went wrong. Ideally, lol would already be part of clbuild. you just happen to be among the first to need it. 22:19:07 one of the things clbuild taught me, is that svn often needs a good killall -9 22:19:35 p_l: admining cl-net has taught me that anything to do with svn could use a good rm -rf :) 22:19:36 drewc: it is your fault! you had to give a presentation. Mister "I don't really want users" ;-) 22:19:55 madnificent: sigh .. and people wonder why i don't want users .. .:P 22:20:06 drewc: cabal-style package distribution would make a lot of good.... 22:20:10 drewc: and :P on the comment to p_l 22:20:19 drewc: we are highly underappreciated 22:20:38 -!- tombom [i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp] has quit ["Peace and Protection 4.22.2"] 22:20:45 drewc: what you could assume I'd build for LoL, is (yet another) connection to an openid library 22:20:48 madnificent: actually, at this point that is likely true, i should be actively seeking users. 22:21:28 madnificent: sure, which is basically what clbuild is doing. 22:21:57 *madnificent* has been searching for a decent webframework for lisp (meaning, more straight-forward as the libraries I've seen so far) 22:22:06 in early version of LoL, i had users, and they'd submit code. But, the base library was poorly designed, and the next version looked little like the original. This has happened a few times now. 22:22:15 drewc: guess clbuild had issues, hg isn't installed (and no, it didn't note that previously) 22:22:45 well, if the general structure of LoL has quiesced, i'll submit any patches I come up with. 22:23:12 also, for some reason, git indexed some files that were referenced through LD_LIBRARY_PATH... >_> 22:23:31 drewc: what license is LoL? 22:23:32 Fade: at this point the interface should be quite stable. the implementation is due to change again, but that's only because the code i needed to make lol right did not exist and i'm not smart enough to come up with it on my own. 22:23:40 madnificent: the WTF license 22:24:04 drewc: which is ~BSD? 22:24:07 madnificent: i think there is a clbuild check or something. 22:24:17 madnificent: MIT-like, expressed in one line 22:24:39 drewc: I guess --resume doesn't work properly, as it only installed one extra library after the --resume 22:24:42 madnificent: what he said. 'DO WTF you want". 22:24:50 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:24:51 nice 22:25:12 madnificent: i can get confused when things get half installed. it can 22:25:17 hrm .. 22:25:37 sigh 22:25:42 can I make it reinstall everything then? 22:25:54 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 22:25:58 record-dependencies failed half-way 22:26:04 make sure there are no empty directories .. it hates that. 22:26:13 but it creates them 22:26:13 ./clbuild mrproper 22:26:18 will trash everything 22:26:19 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-62-149.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:26:33 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:35 symbolicweb is failing 22:26:39 Beket [n=stathis@ppp12-217.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:26:46 comment it out of the projects file. 22:27:12 just remember to add a space after # in comment 22:27:37 (cause that's intuitive) 22:27:39 :) 22:27:48 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EC10.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["I am Locutus of Borg! You will assist us!"] 22:28:00 clbuild feels beta 22:28:01 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:28:03 there's also a blacklist maintained in clbuild.lisp 22:28:06 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:28:15 which may be the easier route. 22:28:18 come to think of it. 22:28:29 -!- jfactor [n=john@student165-40.hampshire.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:29:02 -!- jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:29:24 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:29:38 *madnificent* makes a coffee 22:30:30 ... okay, what is a _working_ modern CL available for SPARC64? 22:31:53 the last time I looked, I think clisp was the only one I could find. 22:32:26 -!- KalifG [n=user@208-117-55-123.block5.gvtc.com] has quit [No route to host] 22:33:19 I was wondering about Allegro CL, but I don't know much about their deplyoyment licensing 22:33:21 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:29 althoush sbcl 1.0.23 is listed on sbcl.org for sparc. 22:33:39 s/oush/ough 22:33:49 p_l: they'll happily give you deployment licenses if you share your revenue with them 22:33:59 H4ns: How much? 22:34:08 p_l: talk to them directly 22:34:28 p_l: scieneer runs on sparc. 22:34:46 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:01 well, sbcl 1.0.23 on sparc/slowaris. 22:35:19 hmm... 22:35:22 p_l: look at http://common-lisp.net/~dlw/LispSurvey.html for a survey on cl implementations. 22:35:42 dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-154-193.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:59 Cause I'm interested in making a (half)commercial intranet application and the one place where I want it to replace the existing system runs on SPARC 22:36:05 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:09 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:28 sparc/linux support listed at sbcl.org is 1.0.22 22:36:43 so it's nearly a first class citizen. 22:37:07 version number at sbcl.org downloads doesn't mean anything 22:37:32 I assumed that the listed version had been bootstrapped on the listed platform/architecture. 22:37:33 besides laziness of maintainers 22:37:34 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 22:37:44 Fade: I need Solaris 9 :) 22:37:57 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:22 well, try sbcl; let me know if it goes. I have an e4000 gathering dust that might be useful. :) 22:39:00 At least I think the current solution runs on one of uni's sun boxes. It might as well run on Windows (it's a Java app as far as I can see) 22:39:21 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:40:00 p_l: if threading is important for you, read the fine print w/sbcl... 22:40:44 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:33 whilst I'm waiting on clbuild, how the hell do you convince a partner for a school project to use common lisp instead of java? (team of two people, and I'm really not into Java) 22:42:02 life threat 22:42:09 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 22:42:47 use clojure 22:43:08 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@x250007.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:43:15 and first, i'd need to threaten teacher 22:43:37 use clojure and call it java with a long config file. 22:44:00 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0FAF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:44:16 madnificent: bring artillery 22:44:50 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:57 madnificent: Also, remember, there's only 1) Open Fire! 2) I need to reload 22:45:09 stassats`: :P I'm still hoping to convince him... but as lisp is seen as a legendary language in our school, most of them accept it 22:45:16 i'd love to use java instead of VBA 22:45:34 stassats`: you know, you just made me feel good with java there 22:45:58 Ouch 22:46:16 otoh, I'm still hovering around gettin a book on COBOL... 22:46:21 previous university with C++ was better... 22:46:48 i did straight C in school, though 'intro to computer programming' was in VB. 22:47:10 man 22:47:11 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:47:13 that said, rather than take that course i offered to teach it, and the prof send me home with an A. 22:47:17 stassats`: come to belgium, we have a univ (not mine) that uses scheme as an introductory language 22:47:43 drewc: that's always a good idea :) 22:47:49 the only down side is that after class, you're in belgium! 22:47:55 :D 22:47:56 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:48:03 Fade: we have beer! much much beer! 22:48:11 *drewc* likes beer 22:48:13 drewc: Though my version was "Do you want me to write you a book on Linux/Unix administration?" 22:48:15 <-- alergic to yeast :(( 22:48:32 Fade: :( 22:48:32 madnificent: well, i can teach whatever i want, i will suffer a little of some nonsense just to pass exams 22:48:45 they almost revoked my irish passport when the state department found out. 22:48:47 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:56 s/teach/learn/ 22:48:58 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:49:29 Fade: how can you survive?! 22:50:11 i love whiskey 22:50:17 Fade: not much yeast left by the time it makes it to whisey 22:50:23 whiskey 22:50:27 exactly 22:50:28 Fade: though we have wine and some strange kind of honey-beer (don't know what it contains, but its good) and some even stranger kind of champagne too (though I don't like that sort of stuff) 22:50:30 :D 22:50:51 madnificent: honey-beer.. you mean mead? 22:50:54 *drewc* loves mead 22:51:14 that, i've never had. 22:51:18 drewc: yeah, I think that's somewhere on the bottle (/me searches) 22:51:41 i have a friend who brews mead .. just lovely. 22:51:48 mead... also known in some places as "drinking honey" :D 22:51:49 -!- iStig [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:51:59 the ethiopians have a version called 'Taj' that is quite nice as well. 22:52:07 *Fade* moves the clbuild maschinations from the dsl connected machine to the machine connected to gigabit ethernet. 22:52:07 drewc: yes! 22:52:16 p_l: as much as beer is 'drinking bread' ;) 22:52:28 drewc: coming down from a 'trip' of mead is the perfect world 22:52:41 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:52:46 you're calm, you've just been productive and well... drunk 22:53:00 indeed, it's like a nice wine only honey-ier 22:53:13 oh, do you know stella artois? 22:53:18 of course. 22:53:22 drewc: That applies more to medieval beer :) 22:53:37 I live about 200 meters from where they brew that 22:53:57 in fact, I walk right by the brewery when I take a walk at night 22:54:16 okay, so clbuild failed yet again 22:54:28 this time at with aromyxo, how should I continue from it? 22:54:29 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 22:54:37 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:54:41 madnificent: that's Brussels? 22:54:44 how do I retry 22:54:45 drewc: Leuven 22:54:48 madnificent: either skip or remove it from wnpp 22:54:52 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:00 they're all failing on nameservice from the same machine for symbolic web. comment them all out of the projects file. 22:55:04 iStig [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:06 how do I correctly skip it? (without having to go over the whole thing again) 22:55:27 madnificent: clbuild skip project sometimes works 22:55:32 i've never been able to get clbuild to obey its implied skip semantics. 22:55:43 make sure you delete the empty directory it probably created 22:55:56 yes clbuild is sub-optimal when adding new dependencies. 22:56:04 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:56:08 and then how should I resume after that? 22:56:27 i suppose you have to bloody record-dependencies again. 22:56:33 I've just ran ./clbuild record-dependencies... so it would become ./clbuild record-dependencies --resume? 22:56:42 argh. I'll have to modify get_cvs in clbuild 22:57:06 madnificent: you'd think, but i make no promises. 22:57:29 madnificent: remove any project line that calls out to erleuchtet.org 22:57:29 Fade: which ones should I comment out (as there are somewhat many, I assume (and this is taking much time)) 22:57:38 It was 15 degress C last week and sunny... now it's blowing a double reefed topsail breeze and snowing. 22:57:47 right below symbolic web clause, the perfect storm clause will also fail. 22:57:50 -!- iStig [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:58:43 there are three entries for symbolicweb 22:58:59 just search on symbolic web, and take out the three entries under the comment. 22:59:00 snow in vancouver is dangerous... managed to fracture my elbow in december when the entire city was covered in ice 22:59:16 when you comment out a package in wnpp-projects, you need to put a space after the # 22:59:53 jestocost [n=cmell@x250004.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:59:54 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:02 I hope it worked, it is resuming (I think) 23:00:18 rumbleca: indeed.. they have no idea how to deal with the stuff here. 23:00:30 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:41 *madnificent* <3 ice 23:00:50 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:00:55 snow is the perfect road to drive on :D 23:00:58 when i lived in victoria, it snowed the year they sold their single plow to nanaimo. 23:01:17 Fade: LoL 23:01:32 coming from ontario, I found this deeply amusing. 23:02:36 Stefan100 [n=Stefan10@1-1-13-45a.spa.sth.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 23:02:42 -!- dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-154-193.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:02:48 dfox [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 23:02:54 -!- Stefan100 [n=Stefan10@1-1-13-45a.spa.sth.bostream.se] has left #lisp 23:03:04 Fade: i live in t-dot 17 years... it is amusing to no end! :) 23:03:15 :) 23:03:32 (lived .. can't type to save my life today) 23:03:46 luckily, we all speak fluent irc. 23:04:44 klaid [n=user@ip68-99-51-31.cl.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:04 drewc: I think documentation is the one thing that creates users. I've been searching for a good ORDBM for lisp, and I ended up using the bknr.datastore. Simply because I couldn't get any other system work quickly 23:06:17 drewc: and that was a problem with documentation 23:06:22 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:06:39 elephant works well 23:06:40 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 23:06:47 i haven't tried bknr 23:06:59 Fade: bknr simply works... 23:07:31 Fade: the example I pasted on #lispweb (which might be more appropriate for the LoL tutorial too), contains the configuration of a datastore for it 23:08:19 dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-64-125-73.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:08:52 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:58 i think i have a wnpp-projects file which runs to completion. 23:09:03 do you want me to paste it? 23:09:32 Fade: sure, the --resume seems to work too (but skips automagically 23:10:08 jfactor [n=john@student165-228.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 23:10:36 drewc: how do you store objects in the database? (do you have meaningful tables, or do you just throw every variable/class in a table that contains everything) 23:10:44 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-198-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 23:11:03 *madnificent* doesn't like waiting on clbuild 23:11:37 usually you don't end up doing this record-dependencies nonesense. 23:12:04 and it sounds like it won't be necessary after drewc's email s processed by the maintainer. 23:12:06 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:18 madnificent: i don't store objects in the database... i store rows in the database. 23:12:31 oh sorry, this was a general comment, not meant to be diminishing towards clbuild 23:12:42 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EC10.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:44 drewc: do you have one table per object? (better question?) 23:12:49 darn 23:12:50 clbuild isn't great.. it's just the best option available. :/ 23:12:58 one table per class, clearly -_- 23:12:59 madnificent: i use the database as it was intended, with constraints, triggers, functions and exploit every bit of postgresql. 23:13:05 <3 23:13:06 it's certainly better than nothing. 23:13:19 drewc: I've been searching for that! (now I hope it really is what I'm hoping of it) 23:13:21 drewc: that's good to hear in this world :) 23:13:47 madnificent: sometimes i'll map objects to tables, but i usually map the object system to the database and not vice-versa 23:13:57 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-62-149.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 23:14:04 another dull question, is there a lisp available for creating operating systems (I guess not, but with the ancient lisp-machines...) 23:14:14 madnificent: sure, movitz 23:14:18 *p_l* accounts lack of triggers, proper constraints etc. to braindamage caused by MySQL 23:14:19 minion: movitz? 23:14:20 movitz: Movitz is a Common Lisp implementation that targets the x86 PC architecture "on-the-metal". http://www.cliki.net/movitz 23:14:24 *Fade* gets LoL installe 23:14:25 d 23:14:50 p_l : agreed, people think that mysql is a real database and write shitty frameworks to work around its limitations. 23:15:02 *madnificent* doesn't understand how every insane question about lisp can have the answer "sure we have that" 23:15:11 p_l: i find that if i model the RDBMS properly, the application almost writes itself. 23:15:27 50 years is no a joke 23:15:29 madnificent: it is the second oldest language in use after all .. it's been done. :) 23:15:44 borism__ [n=boris@195-50-201-100-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 23:16:02 and, given the small size of the CL 'community', i think the fact that we have alll this software says something about lisp development... 23:16:12 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-124.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 23:16:15 like "Hey, it works!" 23:16:30 "model the RDBMS properly" ... i'm not sure i'v ever actually managed that feat. 23:16:37 *p_l* modified clbuild.... one line saved ton of headaches 23:17:13 Fade: who has .. but it's worth trying. 23:17:24 you have a problem, and you think "hey, i'll use a database!" 23:17:26 proper thing to do would be to modify cvs, but I don't have the will to do that :-) 23:17:26 but still, all this? Some of these things aren't trivial... and the lisp community isn't as big as it used to be (I guess) anymore 23:17:27 now you have two problems. 23:17:35 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-201-67-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:17:38 with apologies to JWZ. 23:18:01 *madnificent* installs lisp-on-lines 23:18:05 Fade: and then you think "I'll use a RDBMS" and you just multiplied the problems by factor of 3 ;-) 23:18:15 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-152-75.vologda.ru] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:18:18 Fade: you need to store data .. you can either leverage hundreds of man-years of work, or blow it completely. 23:18:19 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 23:18:23 Fade: JWZ? 23:18:24 madnificent: that's written by those who don't hang on irc 23:18:29 Postgres was initially written in CL using Franz's impl, but they went all-C because 3Mb of core was too much 23:18:31 eons ago 23:18:35 jamie zawinski 23:18:43 of xemacs and netscape fame. 23:18:47 one of Netscape authors :) 23:18:51 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-198-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:18:52 fe[nl]ix: you made me feel sad 23:18:56 back when Netscape was fast 23:19:00 fe[nl]ix: indeed.. and the POSTGRES object system has, gasp, multi-methods, generic functions and a whole load of other goodies. 23:19:12 inheritance as well. 23:19:41 how do I use clbuild to load lisp-on-lines? 23:20:03 nobody really seems to understand postgresql in the mainstream web world .. then you hear about people de-normalizing because it takes too long to build indexes, and you can't read the database while that is happening. 23:20:08 do you still have the code for that LoL reddit stuff you did for vanlisp, drewc? 23:20:12 madnificent: ./clbuild install lisp-on-lines. 23:20:23 Fade: that stuff is so old it would never work .. 23:20:23 PostgreSQL still rocks compared to MySQL (which you could probably replicate in <10k lines of _C_ code on VMS or MVS) 23:20:25 drewc: after that 23:20:38 drewc: yes, but back then it was only a serialization DB for CL, much like bknr I think 23:20:45 madnificent: asdf load the system. 23:21:06 Fade: don't I have to add the clbuild stuff to my discoverable asdf libraries? 23:21:18 fe[nl]ix: like bknr only on-disk .. and it was serializing CLOS. it still has those features if you know where to look. 23:21:21 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:21:44 madnificent: use clbuild itself .. try ./clbuild slime 23:21:50 inside your clbuild directory just do ./clbuild lisp 23:21:55 and it'll start sbcl 23:22:02 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:22:11 is nice 23:22:13 with the appropriate adsf:*central-registry* entry to load all the systems managed by clbuild. 23:22:26 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-150.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:22:28 contextl wants portable-threads 23:22:44 so, what did I need to load to check if everything installed correctly? 23:22:44 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:22:44 oh ... is that not there? 23:23:05 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-124.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:23:10 negative 23:23:12 that's odd.... i used clbuild to install my development environment on this PC .. and lol works :) 23:23:31 same error here 23:23:35 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:24:06 oic .. 23:24:11 ** or it gave an error 23:24:20 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-170.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 23:24:26 there are two portable-threads entries in the wnpp-projects.. that might have something to do with it. 23:24:32 (mine and cl-containers) 23:26:41 does yours interop with cl-containers? :) 23:26:42 lol 23:27:14 it's probably the same portable-threads 23:27:18 sigh, late in the evening and everything still going slow 23:27:21 i just put the tarball in a darcs 23:27:36 because i sometimes modify sources and i like clbuild to track that. 23:27:38 *p_l* wonders how the hell he got to compiling 23:27:59 *Fade* axes the get_tarball 23:29:19 and away it goes 23:29:35 and then rerun the record-dependencies? 23:29:40 -!- vostibackle [n=vosti@cpe-24-28-81-28.austin.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 23:31:14 well, that works. 23:31:23 LoL compiles. 23:31:24 :) 23:31:29 Fade: how dod you do that? 23:31:39 amaron [n=amaron@cable-94-189-243-158.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 23:31:49 comment out the first portable-threads emacs finds searching from the top of the file. 23:31:55 ./clbuild trash portable-threads 23:32:02 ah, trash :) 23:32:06 ./clbuild record-dependencies 23:32:18 ./clbuild install portable-threads 23:32:22 ./clbuild lisp 23:32:29 (require :lisp-on-lines) 23:32:50 off to the races. 23:33:01 races? 23:33:28 so to speak. 23:33:42 as in, there. it's done. :) 23:33:53 it works, I'm ready for the tutorial (perhaps I'll have issues with the configuration of postgresql) 23:34:40 iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:01 drewc: enlighten us! 23:35:08 it'll be a bit noisy for #lisp, IMO, so anybody who wants to do this please /join #tech.coop 23:35:30 drewc: take #lispweb? 23:35:44 as that might be more appropriate 23:36:20 Is there a shortcut in SLIME to display the implementation's documentation of an object? 23:36:45 iaindalton: Inspecting the object will usually show you the documentation as well. 23:37:07 C-c C-d d 23:37:19 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:37:33 stassats`: thx 23:37:47 drewc: what is inspecting? 23:40:10 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B168016.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:41:03 iaindalton: try (inspect 'foo) (or C-c I foo in slime) 23:42:05 'foo in C-c I too 23:42:57 oh, yes 23:43:43 rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:10 hi, how do i do a select * using clsql? 23:46:18 thanks 23:47:40 nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl10-157-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:47:42 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl10-157-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:48:05 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:49:27 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 23:49:41 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:52 -!- dtangren [n=dtangren@cpe-74-64-125-73.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:54:59 mgr_ [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 23:55:00 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:58:18 WarWeasle [n=brad@c-98-220-168-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:48 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp