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wiki part" 01:34:16 is anything actually annotated on there? 01:34:46 ah, here's one 01:34:54 yeah, I don't think I'd want the annotations inline 01:34:58 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 01:35:15 *dlowe* shrugs. 01:35:26 I've already got too many projects 01:35:56 Yeah, I've suddenly got a few too many myself. 01:36:34 -!- zenbalrog [n=johnnyc@adsl-69-150-85-11.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["zenbalrog has no reason"] 01:37:44 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:39:07 -!- aggieben_ [n=chatzill@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]"] 01:39:08 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-135-143.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:39:22 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A00CA.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:41:22 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined 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[n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:44:04 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 02:45:23 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 02:45:30 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 02:51:58 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:47 -!- segv__ is now known as segv 02:54:01 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:36 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #lisp 03:07:58 -!- tarbo_ [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:24:30 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-98.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:26:33 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 03:28:16 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:28:44 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 03:30:06 g'day #lisp 03:30:33 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483D98A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:33:23 Greetings, schmx! 03:33:26 -!- tetha [n=hk@pD950FCF0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:33:35 tetha [n=hk@pD9EE6543.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:53 "The functions provide and require are deprecated. " Well, that makes worry about using those easier. 03:34:12 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@89-186-142-125.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:34:48 (: 03:41:54 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:39 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:48:31 I need to make it a point to read someone else's code at least once a day. I'm looking through some code and I see this sequence function EVERY. It appears to be in the standard, so I look it up in the hyperspec, sure enough it's there. It is doing exactly what I've been using a map-reduce combination to do. 03:49:50 Alternatively, if you are trying to do something, for example to a sequence, spend a few minutes browsing the sequence glossary in the hyperspec and read any entries that look mildly related. Even if they're not, you'll learn something. 03:50:25 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:50:26 I have entertained that idea of reading someone else's code once / day too. It seems a very good idea. 03:50:36 The actual practice of doing so... not working out so well. 03:52:55 -!- mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:53:59 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 03:56:05 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:20 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:59:39 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:02:46 KalifG [n=user@32.176.123.250] has joined #lisp 04:04:29 -!- mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:05:56 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 04:07:20 hm, know how defvar is only initialized once? .. great when working on a file, just hitting slime-eval-buffer over and over again .. is something similar possible to do with something like this; (let ((lock (make-lock)) (defun test-a () ..) (defun test-b () ..)) where these of course use `lock' .. ? 04:07:42 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:10:41 i'm looking up make-load-form and similar stuff now .. not sure i'm on the right track tho 04:16:33 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:11 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 04:26:21 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 04:26:45 ok, the information just isn't there .. so i suppose this isn't possible 04:33:31 lnostdal: sure you can. 04:33:46 Worst case, you can load-time-value. 04:34:26 oh, forgot about that one .. checking the spec. now 04:34:44 -!- azanar [n=azanar@edm1a.mavericklabel.com] has quit [] 04:35:08 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-138-90.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:30 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:37:57 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 04:41:52 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:47 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 04:44:49 hm, nope .. not possible .. i'll probably end up using a class anyway, so i'll do it via a :class allocated slot 04:44:57 http://paste.lisp.org/display/76566 04:45:00 ..like that 04:48:07 -!- totzeit [n=user@c-24-5-85-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:50:40 -!- rodge [n=roderic@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has left #lisp 04:50:47 ilitirit_ [n=john@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 04:50:50 -!- ilitirit_ [n=john@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 04:51:08 rodge [n=roderic@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 04:54:16 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:54:44 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-98.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:07:06 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:22 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-98.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:15:57 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 05:17:28 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["I'm off!"] 05:19:12 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:49 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:20:07 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.224.70] has joined #lisp 05:24:44 Good morning everyone. 05:25:23 Greetings beach. 05:28:05 -!- arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:30:49 arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 05:31:27 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-98.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:32:32 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 05:34:01 benny [n=benny@i577A0EF0.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:35:28 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:36:29 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 05:38:02 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:42:27 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:51:28 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:51:43 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:44 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-154-101.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:09 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 05:58:12 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:32 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:00:07 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-212-164.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:00:29 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 06:00:53 -!- KalifG [n=user@32.176.123.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:01:48 -!- jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:02:17 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:02:42 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:02:45 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:06:38 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:15 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:10:18 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:24 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-98.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:11:24 -!- td123 [n=tom@isr6699.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:12:22 vostibackle [n=vosti@cpe-24-28-81-28.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:12:42 I'm trying to find stuff about abstract classes in clos, and it seems like there aren't any 06:12:56 is there some other way I should think about the problem instead of abstract classes? 06:13:54 I just want to define methods for a bunch of subclasses which don't exist yet, but it doesn't make sense to instantiate the superclass 06:14:07 should I just use an empty class? 06:15:49 so don't instanciate that class if it doesn't make sense to do so. 06:18:07 -!- konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has left #lisp 06:19:15 (defmethod make-instance ((class (eql 'abstract-class)) &key) (error "Can't instantiate ~A directly." class)) 06:19:57 lnostdal: (make-instance (find-class 'abstract-class) ...) 06:20:17 hm, oh .. need a second method too then perhaps 06:20:27 or maybe there is a better way 06:23:00 but yeah, not sure i'd bother adding restraints 06:23:55 hmm 06:24:14 in other languages this would cause undefined method errors 06:24:34 because the abstract superclass doesn't define methods for itself 06:24:44 in other statically typed languages. 06:24:49 right, yeah 06:25:15 so clos doesn't care if methods are undefined? 06:25:15 methods (or generic functions) does not "belong" to any particular class(es), in lisp/clos 06:25:21 do* 06:25:41 but I mean, clos doesn't check that generic function calls have methods that are applicable for the arguments? 06:26:08 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 06:26:10 Classes, methods and generic functions are constantly added at runtime. 06:26:48 it cannot, because it cannot know what type the arguments are at compile-time, vostibackle 06:27:30 vostibackle: it checks when you call the generic function. 06:27:54 ah, yes, I see 06:28:11 that's nice 06:28:26 so I can just do (defclass abstract-class () ()), then? 06:29:00 sure .. then dispatch based on it etc. 06:29:14 great, thanks 06:29:20 pointless. 06:30:59 why? 06:31:09 really? .. vehicle is quite abstract .. but some things (methods method-combinations) apply to all vehicles, but not other abstract things 06:32:11 your abstract classes are subclasses of abstract-class? 06:32:38 no, my concrete classes are 06:33:07 but I want to define a method on all of them 06:33:13 oh, yeah, literally naming your class "abstract-class" probably does not make sense i think 06:33:17 oh, okay, sure. I took the class name literally. 06:33:27 -!- retupmoca [n=retupmoc@ppp-69-221-231-195.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:33:30 k 06:38:26 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@x250041.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:39:59 c|mell [n=cmell@y192014.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 06:42:53 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.219.54] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:43:16 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:43:59 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:37 hello lispers 06:49:46 Greetings kiuma! 06:50:07 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [] 06:51:58 vinc456 [n=user@unaffiliated/vinc456] has joined #lisp 06:53:23 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 06:53:38 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 07:02:01 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:42 kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 07:03:50 What is package lock violation? Is it ok to just ignore it? 07:04:46 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:05:14 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 07:05:29 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:05:51 It means you are trying to redefine a symbol that is important, you probably want to reconsider. 07:05:54 -!- aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:06:48 -!- thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:07:42 I see, Thank you tmh 07:09:34 azanar [n=azanar@c-67-183-123-169.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:40 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has joined #lisp 07:18:03 zhongzhong [n=chatzill@124.90.139.120] has joined #lisp 07:18:50 I am new to Lisp, any good idea? 07:19:13 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:20:08 ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.143] has joined #lisp 07:20:48 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:21:00 Can you be more specific? 07:22:40 zhongzhong - http://www.cliki.net/Getting%20Started 07:22:41 -!- zhongzhong [n=chatzill@124.90.139.120] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.2/2008091620]"] 07:24:09 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:24:37 hjpark [n=user@jaram.hanyang.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 07:25:19 -!- sebell [n=sctb@adsl-71-135-109-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.1.1"] 07:26:21 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 07:28:55 Hello 07:29:27 -!- arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:34:21 hey 07:35:28 -!- hjpark [n=user@jaram.hanyang.ac.kr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:36:36 -!- azanar [n=azanar@c-67-183-123-169.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:37:55 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:45:13 hjpark [n=user@jaram.hanyang.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 07:47:00 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 07:47:15 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:47:55 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:19 good morning 07:48:47 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 07:50:00 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-190-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:49 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:53:10 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:53:39 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [] 07:53:51 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 07:58:07 mega1 [n=mega@53d83d32.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:03:15 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:04:39 aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has joined #lisp 08:07:02 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:07:26 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:07:32 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:09:42 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 08:09:46 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:16:42 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:16:48 Good morning everyone. 08:18:55 ave plage 08:19:55 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 08:20:32 -!- keithr [n=keithr@ip68-13-249-183.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:23:53 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:41 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 08:25:51 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:11 keithr [n=keithr@ip68-13-249-183.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:21 How should I stop or break a process like an infinite loop in slime mode? 08:29:40 C-c C-c 08:30:07 C-c C-c in the REPL, if it's an arbitrary thread, M-x slime-list-threads, and then k 08:30:13 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:32:14 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-190-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:27 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-190-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Success] 08:34:03 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 08:34:13 plage` [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:34:16 -!- plage` [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:34:21 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:34:48 C-c C-c doesn't seem to be working. It's still running 08:36:02 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:36:54 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:37:17 kenjin: i think i know, let me make sure 08:37:22 snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has joined #lisp 08:39:41 Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has joined #lisp 08:40:17 After C-c C-c, [continue] [abort] [terminate-thread] options show up. None of them works 08:40:55 what's the problem exactly - why can't you just kill the process i mean 08:41:33 kenjin: you're not making it easy for others to help you 08:43:53 Should I kill the slime to stop the process is my question. 08:45:55 what's stopping you from killing the process? 08:46:20 are you going to lose unsaved data? 08:46:47 if your unsaved data is directions into an infinite loop, i'd kill the process then. 08:46:59 <_8david`> killall -9 sbcl will lose him street creds 08:47:52 street cred is overrated 08:48:03 <_8david`> isismelting: but you're not helpful either 08:48:31 i'm trying to be - i'm running emacs/slime into an infinite loop over and over again right now trying to find a way out 08:48:34 good morning ;) 08:48:37 <_8david`> he could still try to kill the thread (not the process) as indicated by tcr 08:49:23 _8david' - do you think maybe he could get better help asking this question in #linux or #unix perhaps? 08:52:54 kenjin - you can try alt-x "slime" 08:54:34 kenjin: What's in an infinite loop? A thread, or the whole process? What's your implementation? 08:55:29 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 09:04:27 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:06:20 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:06:23 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:09:00 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 09:10:07 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 09:11:18 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:14:27 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 09:15:20 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 09:15:39 -!- jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:17:00 jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:22 -!- 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connection] 09:41:03 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:41:30 hello 09:43:52 -!- ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.143] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:43:59 hello manuel__ 09:45:05 retupmoca [n=retupmoc@ppp-69-221-227-246.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:13 ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.143] has joined #lisp 09:48:14 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:49:10 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:22 -!- ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.143] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:57:08 -!- snippyhollow [n=snippyho@212.116.219.91] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:58:25 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:00:38 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:00:39 VityokOr` [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 10:04:04 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[n=Modius@adsl-68-90-188-165.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:22 LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:09:52 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087E14B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:29 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:06 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:18:25 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:19:12 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AB7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:09 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:23:10 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 13:25:17 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@125.33.151.243] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:27:29 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.233.9] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:27:32 G'morning all. 13:27:41 hi nyef 13:27:55 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:57 -!- cipher [n=user@pool-71-184-152-81.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:35:02 Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:18 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:36:04 svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has joined #lisp 13:38:09 -!- aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:38:10 Hello again friends. I apparently got one of the last Hyatt hotel rooms for ILC2009, but I haven't found anyone to split it with. Anyone here interested? 13:38:15 aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:34 Unfortunately, it is not two normal beds...the second bed is a "roll out bed", which I assume is one step up from being a cot. 13:38:50 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:40:08 cpape [n=user@host16084.pik-potsdam.de] has joined #lisp 13:42:02 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:56 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:45:22 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A46E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:45:58 *dlowe* is intrigued by cl-op 13:51:08 -!- shizzy0 [n=shane@c-76-105-6-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:51:53 dlowe: that looks cute 13:52:11 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 13:55:56 yeah, I can't see it becoming the industry standard, but it beats using a read macro 13:55:58 minion: cl-op? 13:55:59 cl-op: cl-op is a partial application library inspired by Goo's op function and SRFI 26. http://www.cliki.net/cl-op 13:56:39 We could add functional tools to cl-op, and prefix it with cy (for CurrY). cy-cl-op :-) 13:57:13 ThomasI [n=thomas@91-64-145-69-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:57:29 -!- Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has left #lisp 13:57:37 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1E37C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:57:42 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1DD0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:37 I don't quite get from the examples what it's supposed to do when 13:59:31 -!- KalifG [n=user@32.176.123.250] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:59:45 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp1-220.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:00:32 antifuchs: (op foo 1 _ 3) => (lambda (x) (foo 1 x 3)) 14:00:54 ok 14:01:02 avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:36 it's just that I don't get how (mapcar (op / (+ _ _)) '(2 3 4) '(2 3 4)) evaluates to '(1/9 1/16 1/5). maybe I need caffeine. 14:01:37 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 14:02:35 (mapcar (lambda (x y) (/ (+ x y))) '(2 3 4) '(2 3 4)) 14:02:46 single argument / :) 14:03:04 *stassats* would expect 1/4 1/6 1/8 14:03:15 that evaluates to (1/4 1/6 1/8) 14:03:32 maybe there's a typo in the examples 14:03:37 it just confused the hell out of me (: 14:03:49 ah, yes. I think you're right 14:11:35 tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:12 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:14:14 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:14:43 someone reported that issue already: http://code.google.com/p/cl-op/issues/detail?id=1 14:14:53 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:03 Hunh. HW_ST physical, quad, conditional, to #x5200, which is in RAM, from R31... And no previous locked memory access. WTF? 14:17:49 i'd say "WTF?" to your message too 14:26:28 -!- cpape [n=user@host16084.pik-potsdam.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:28:44 -!- jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:30:39 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 14:30:54 KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:35:07 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:40 jgracin [n=jgracin@78-1-152-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 14:36:46 hello. i would like to bind variables to multiple-values returned by a function (via values). till now i do it like this (loop for i from 0 to 1 for (l1 l2) = (multiple-value-list (values i (list i i))) ....). i am sure this is not the way to it - i am reading section 6.1.1.7 of clhs - but i am somehow puzzled - can someone push me to the right direction (please)? 14:36:54 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:23 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has quit [] 14:37:37 clhs m-v-b 14:37:37 MULTIPLE-VALUE-BIND: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_multip.htm 14:38:33 so, swank:eval-in-frame does not eval in the dynamic environment of the frame... is there any other way to get some info about the special bindings? 14:38:35 stassats: thanks, i know multiple-value-bind - but i thought there would be a way to do it in loop via for .... 14:39:42 i usually do (loop with quot and rem do (setf (values quot rem) (truncate n d)) ...) 14:40:09 mega1: you mentioned in some of you mail a possible semi-public interface for the special stack... does it mean that currently there's no easy way to inspect the special bindings on sbcl? 14:40:46 i'm working on a custom backtrace emitter that gives info about the special bindings, too 14:41:12 a mere backtrace in the logs is often not enough to debug the problem 14:41:31 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:42:22 nyef: assumes that it's not in cache? 14:42:36 attila_lendvai: I don't know about semi-public, but... if you can determine the bounds of the bindstack and its current pointer, you can grovel over it to get symbol addresses... 14:42:47 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has joined #lisp 14:42:52 p_l: My current theory is that it's there solely to kill the lock flag. 14:43:00 attila_lendvai: I don't think there is one. 14:43:11 however, there is a patch here: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.steel-bank.devel/8794 14:43:14 <_death> does anyone sometimes get into a "mode" with latest sbcl/slime where sldb is supposed to come up (say there's an error), but instead nested errors happen and a backtrace is printed? 14:43:20 It's writing R31 (RAZ) to memory which contains a 0, and storing the lock flag back to R31 (IGN). 14:44:24 I've already had some hits to the Cbox IPRs, and I'm now looking at the first hit to what has to be I/O space proper. 14:44:48 (A long read from #x8740000100) 14:45:41 Now if I can just figure out what's mapped where in memory. 14:48:26 adeht pasted "nested errors" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76577 14:48:26 -!- ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.143] has quit ["Off!"] 14:52:11 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 14:52:42 Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 14:53:56 mega1: thanks for the info! i'll forget it with a TODO until something like this is added to sbcl... 14:54:22 nyef: What you are running? SRM? From which machine? 14:54:22 for now dumping the latest bindings of the specials is good enough 14:54:38 An as800 SRM image. 14:55:14 ALCOR-2 chipset, apparently. 14:55:15 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:55:56 manuel__ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has joined #lisp 14:56:26 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 14:56:57 <_death> hmm, something really weird.. (swank:state-stack) ==> # ?! 14:57:21 nyef: well, I only read the specs of Pyxis (as255) and don't remember much detail 14:57:38 <_death> doesn't seem like state-stack is even inspected anywhere.. 14:57:49 Yeah, I'm starting another hunt for documentation soon. 14:59:01 <_death> ok, this looks like an evil sbcl bug atm 15:03:24 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:14 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 15:05:45 ThomasIl [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 15:06:54 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 15:09:14 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:09:30 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 15:09:46 -!- aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:09:48 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:08 aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:11 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-12.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:14:06 nyef: the documentation is all on the web, but sometimes the link are not clearly available 15:14:30 Yeah, I've pulled the technical manual for the 21172, which I -think- is ALCOR-2. 15:14:48 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:14:51 nyef: So you are doing EV5? 15:15:29 Looks like it to start with. 15:15:58 I had a wave of nostalgia last night when I realized that it was getting slow, and that I'd have to spend some time optimizing it soon. 15:19:05 heh 15:19:17 just remember to add BWX :) 15:20:13 I may actually go back and do EV4 instead / as well. 15:21:20 This machine really does need the SROM, though. It has RAM mapped at the low end of the address space, so if there's no SROM it tries to execute RAM. 15:21:34 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:21:50 And any load to RAM during startup is a hack, plain and simple. 15:21:53 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 15:21:54 Greetings! 15:22:00 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:24 minion: last seen liamh 15:22:25 please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 15:22:37 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:22:42 Clearly 15:22:43 What does minion know? 15:23:19 Hey, I've updated my floating point comparisons and assertions. I'm just trying to figure out how/where to post the files. 15:24:12 nyef: shouldn't it be possible to start emulation with "after SROM had run" state? 15:24:23 It is, but it's still a hack. 15:24:24 At a minimum, I could simply post the floating-point.lisp file. But, I've organized lisp-unit a little with an ASDF definition and a defpackage.lisp file. 15:24:25 tmh: Well, I was thinking we should put them into lisp-unit. I guess we can make our own project, but as a courtesy I would email the author. 15:24:59 LiamH: Oh, I don't intend to make our own project. I guess I could see if the author is interested in the updates. 15:25:00 I don't even have an SROM image yet. 15:25:45 tmh: I was thinking of just making a repo on repo.or.cz. That way we can track changes. 15:25:48 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:26:19 Of course, if the author is interested in incorporating the changes, that's fine too. 15:27:01 LiamH: Okay, I'm not familiar with that service. I'll contact the author and see what he wants to do. I would like to see some other improvements, mainly in the area of report generation. 15:27:56 tmh: good idea. Re repo.or.cz, if you are familiar with git, it is just a free git hosting service for free software with web tracking. 15:28:01 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:28:31 I have a suspicion that he might not be impressed with the ASDF definition or the fact that I've created separate files. I think he wants to keep it simple since his students use it. 15:29:11 In that case I think we can make our own fork - his license allows it. 15:30:18 LiamH: I've used git a little, but all of my personal projects are maintained with darcs. If we fork, I have not problem switching to git. Anyway, I'll go ahead and check with the author. 15:30:51 nyef: AFAIK there's no SROM image available anywhere 15:31:05 That may be the case. 15:31:13 tmh: in a sense, I've done this already. I incorporated all of lisp-unit, plus my changes into GSLL http://repo.or.cz/w/gsll.git, so it's already there. I would just split it off into another project. 15:31:15 they were supposed to be burned in CPU 15:31:30 That said, the firmware upgrade utilities claim to be able to update SROM. 15:31:46 My understanding is that it's a separate chip from the CPU. 15:32:11 nyef: I think it was required to be part of cpu module (if the cpu was single chip, then inside) 15:32:26 Okay, yeah, that makes sense. 15:32:42 cause SROM was to be capable of debugging a situation where motherboard failed completely 15:33:14 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 15:33:48 Aha! 87.4000.0100 is CIA_CTRL. Should be enough to get me back in business. 15:34:25 LiamH: I'll look over it. I'm composing the email now. 15:39:10 nyef: If you did an EV7 you probably could avoid even more, with only minimal memory controller support :P 15:42:40 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 15:48:42 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:50:03 willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:54:50 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 15:56:00 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:00:52 turbo24prg [n=turbo24p@mail.turbolent.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:12 tmh pasted "LiamH : Floating Point Predicates & Assertions" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76579 16:01:57 LiamH: Look over that while we wait for a response from Dr. Riesbeck. Let me know if you have any suggestions. 16:02:14 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has left #lisp 16:02:40 kjfletch [n=kjfletch@94-170-16-78.cable.ubr13.newc.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:05:15 milanj [n=milan@77.46.249.165] has joined #lisp 16:05:32 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:06:25 -!- kjfletch [n=kjfletch@94-170-16-78.cable.ubr13.newc.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:06:44 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@78-1-152-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:07:06 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:10 Adamant [n=Adamant@130.254.103.13] has joined #lisp 16:07:19 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:09:10 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:09:11 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:09:29 tmh: Looks very thorough. I will take a closer look this weekend. 16:10:35 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:12:16 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.238.52] has joined #lisp 16:13:21 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-12.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 16:13:35 tsuru` [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:02 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:24 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:22:00 LiamH: The fundamentals are correct, but I'm not completely satisfied with the organization. Many of the tests are repeated, especially if you call NUMBER-EQUAL. There are also some convenience functions I'd like to add. Two that come to mind are a function to set *EPSILON* based on implementation and hardware and a function that returns an array of the error values between 2 arrays. The second one is trivial, I just need to do it. The epsilon fun 16:22:20 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:24:01 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:04 tmh: OK 16:25:56 I know this isn't a question specific to CL, but are there any GC libraries in C especially suitable for a Lisp? 16:26:18 boehm? 16:26:24 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:26:43 stassats: I haven't looked much into boehm, but it looks like a popular choice. 16:27:01 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:02 boehm seems popular for implementing lisp in terms of C. 16:27:06 Boehm's GC library is a nice source of bugs known as space leaks. 16:27:54 Riastradh: Could you elaborate? 16:28:03 It's a conservative GC; in other words, a bug. 16:28:45 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:29:43 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:30:11 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:30:30 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:36 it's not that bad in practice, really 16:30:47 All GCs are conservative to some degree. ;-) 16:31:29 "As Ellis and Stroustrup say in The Annotated C++ Reference Manual, 'C programmers think memory management is too important to be left to the computer. LISP programmers think memory management is too important to be left to the user.'" 16:32:32 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:40 "Lisp programmers also don't think much of opinions of people who spell Lisp in all caps" 16:32:57 despite that all lisp functions are in all caps :) 16:33:09 cmm-: Hahaha. :D 16:33:54 dlowe: I tend to think that they are just canonicalized, and it happens that the canonical form of a function is the all-caps variant. :) 16:34:23 not canonical, but historical 16:34:46 *dlowe* would have preferred lower-case, but it's certainly too late to change now. 16:35:00 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:35:13 I guess. Again, it's just how I think of it. I'd guess that any terminal is likely to have capital letters over lower case, but I guess that's pretty useless to consider nowadays. 16:36:25 I noticed that Arc people mark symbols in text with ' , as in "I think that 'def is too verbose. How about ': ? And 'mac should be the more descriptive 'tr . Or 'tr: <-- 'defmac !" 16:36:50 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:37:51 Obviously, all of my Lisp source in in lower caps. But, I like noting lisp symbols in text using all caps, that way they stand out as symbol names. 16:38:08 tmh: you could still do so :) 16:38:28 Well, thank you dlowe! 16:38:37 *dlowe* is feeling generous today. 16:38:47 It is FRIDAY! 16:39:32 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:39:33 kjfletch [n=kjfletch@94-170-16-78.cable.ubr13.newc.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:40:09 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:40:18 ayrnieu: there are good reasons why not use QUOTE to denote symbols. 16:40:21 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:40:46 So, I'm always trolling freelancing websites for interesting little projects. One pops up today asking for some Fortran code to do coordinate transformations. I think to myself, "That would be a nice little Friday project. I'll crank it out and submit a proposal." Then I start to read the spec and it dawns on me that it is someones homework/project. => DELETE. 16:40:49 ayrnieu: when we speak of symbols, we don't speak of evaluating symbols. When we speak of forms, we don't speak of evaluating them. 16:41:16 bdowning_ [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:34 -!- hefner [n=hefner@scatterbrain.cbp.pitt.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:42:11 pjb` [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:15 ayrnieu: eg. (+ 2 3) is a form in which the operator is +. If you evaluate it (because it isn't quoted) then you get 5 is a form which operator is (+ 2 3). Yes, you evaluate also + which is the last expression read at the REPL... 16:42:45 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:43:13 archypetro [n=archange@cpc2-oxfd4-0-0-cust85.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 16:43:55 -!- aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:43:55 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:43:55 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1DD0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:43:55 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:43:55 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AB7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:43:55 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:43:55 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 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131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:06:28 Good evening. 17:08:10 Greetings beach! 17:08:23 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:08:35 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:09:02 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:09:46 Beket_ [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-100-132.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:12:19 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-237.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 17:13:11 -!- meatbag [n=meatbag@proxy.iao.ru] has quit ["JESUS CHRIST, IT'S A LION! GET IN THE CAR!"] 17:13:54 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-81-207.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:14:11 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:14:41 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA0C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:17:48 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.24] has joined #lisp 17:17:55 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:19:37 why are keywords used as arguments for keywords? 17:20:03 to confuse you 17:20:19 fact 17:20:21 and because they're self-evaluating 17:20:30 to not depend on package 17:20:38 <_8david`> because with ordinary functions, no conflicts between different namespaces can arise, so it's easier to use symbols from a single package these 17:21:04 <_8david`> in general, this argument doesn't apply to generic functions, which is why some people (kmp in particular) say that they sometimes use non-keywords as keyword arguments for methods 17:21:29 aha ok 17:22:14 I still don't understand what the question is supposed to mean. This is not unusual here though. 17:22:26 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 17:23:17 slash_: can you give a single example of when a keyword was used as an argument for a keyword? 17:23:36 beach: I think it's suppose to mean "why are keywords used to specify named arguments" 17:23:41 slash_: I mean, only functions have arguments, not symbols, so not keywords either. 17:23:53 beach: (open inf path :direction :output) 17:24:02 yeah stuff like that 17:24:29 certainty|work [n=david@alpha.d-coded.de] has joined #lisp 17:24:49 slash_: so do you mean: Why is the case that sometimes a keyword is also the value of a keyword-value pair? 17:25:22 yes 17:25:42 Well, I don't that was the question that was answered above. 17:25:54 But I admit I am tired, so I may be wrong. 17:26:08 -!- deliana [n=deliana@147.210.246.189] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:26:32 beach: you accidentally the verb 17:26:48 did not! 17:27:09 purposively, then 17:27:28 slash_: it's so you don't have to muck about with packages 17:27:52 -!- KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:27:56 ramkrsna_ [n=ramkrsna@123.236.183.133] has joined #lisp 17:28:25 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:28:37 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit ["time to go home"] 17:28:45 dlowe: Oh, yes, I see it now. Sorry! 17:29:35 -!- Beket_ is now known as Beket 17:30:37 is there something like a generic package then, which is accessed by prepending '? 17:30:55 slash_: no, there's the current package *PACKAGE* 17:30:57 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:03 ':'? 17:31:08 i mean 17:31:10 slash_: by default it's set to cl-user 17:31:23 slash_: oh, that's the KEYWORD package 17:31:33 keywords are reader magic 17:31:41 slash_: try evaluating keyword:foo 17:31:55 (symbol-package ':hi) --> # 17:32:12 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 17:32:18 why #\'? 17:32:33 'no external keyword named foo' 17:32:37 *ayrnieu* shrugs. 17:32:45 slash_: keyword::foo then :p 17:32:55 slash_: what implementation are you using? 17:33:01 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-100-132.home.otenet.gr] has left #lisp 17:33:13 clisp 17:33:26 keyword::foo worked though 17:33:46 and what didn't work? 17:33:52 keyword:foo 17:33:52 keyword::foo , quoted or unquoted, is an error on ABCL. 17:34:10 *dlowe* didn't realize it was such a corner-case 17:34:28 <_death> ayrnieu: not here 17:34:41 KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:34:43 <_death> oh, _A_BCL :) 17:34:44 slash_: that's a bug 17:34:58 slash_: and it works in my clisp 17:35:29 ah, no, sorry, it does work in ABCL. slime-last-expression didn't pull in the keyword:: 17:35:47 well 17:35:55 it works if i enter keyword::foo 17:35:59 and then keyword:foo 17:36:09 but if i start clisp 17:36:20 and do first keyword:foo, it hits the debugger 17:36:50 keyword::foo interns foo in keyword package so that keyword:foo will work 17:37:25 but that is wrong .. correct? 17:38:37 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:39:27 should find-symbol in keyword package always succeed? 17:39:37 no 17:40:06 It is possible to make emacs indent the new line which is opened when I press RET? 17:40:14 (With slime) 17:40:24 yes 17:40:29 ok so the reader is going to have to be more permisive possibly 17:41:23 it already has : case idoimatically programmed in.. whats yet another ;) 17:42:20 maybe though the reader keyword:foo should return an error if foo is not present? 17:44:04 stassats: How? 17:44:24 (Or was the "yes" not an answer to my question?) 17:44:34 The-Kenny: i don't know offhand 17:45:15 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:45 Okay... LFD or C-j does this. 17:46:08 you can bind RET to what C-j is bound 17:46:46 Okay. Thank you :) 17:48:00 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:48:52 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:55 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:49:19 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:49:29 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:42 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 17:51:40 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:51:40 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:52:07 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:26 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.224.70] has quit ["We are NOT lost! I know EXACTLY where we are! Where are we? We're lost."] 17:58:10 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@213.144.1.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:01:00 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:33 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-237.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:02:27 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-182-60.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:02:36 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-182-60.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:02:43 lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:02:47 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:04:16 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-237.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 18:08:14 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:09:21 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:11:07 yafn [n=milwauke@151.60.88.43] has joined #lisp 18:11:11 tmh pasted "Emacs 'newline-and-indent" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76582 18:11:26 The-Kenny: Please see The-Paste. 18:12:01 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-201-67-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 18:12:07 tmh: Thank you :) I made it global: global-set-key " 18:12:27 Oh sorry.. Copy&Paste-Failure 18:12:31 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:14:04 iStig [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:40 anyone using/used ecl with cocoa/carbon here? 18:19:10 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-108-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:21:25 not that I've noticed, but ccl is supposed to have good OSX integration. 18:21:37 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-54.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 18:21:37 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-12.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:22:19 ccl is the old openmcl, ja? 18:22:25 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:22:31 iStig: Indeed. 18:23:36 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:24:40 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 18:24:54 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 18:25:58 mije [n=mije@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:41 hmm.. osx 32bit x86 is now listed for openmcl.. is my mind playing tricks on me, i thought 32-bit was lacking last i checked 18:26:53 it was. 18:27:12 Coral Common Lisp -> Macintosh Common Lisp -> OpenMCL -> Clozure Common Lisp 18:27:27 The "CCL" package was in all of them 18:27:48 ayrnieu: 32-bit support makes it a candidate then :) 18:27:52 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 18:28:01 and Corman Common Lisp somewhere in parallel 18:28:39 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-68-244.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 18:29:04 Corman is unrelated AFAIK 18:29:39 Might be amusing to make a bunch of other implementations called CCL. 18:29:45 minion: What does CCL stand for? 18:29:45 Caseharden Common Lisp 18:29:56 stassats: i doubt corman has good cocoa-support though 18:30:03 Obviously an implementation with security in mind. 18:30:39 nice name 18:30:51 minion: What does CCL stand for? 18:30:52 Courtezanry Common Lisp 18:31:39 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 18:33:36 minion: What does HCL stand for? 18:33:37 Hepatoumbilical Common Lisp 18:35:08 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:36:01 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:36:02 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [] 18:36:14 looks sexy 18:37:40 sbahra [n=sbahra@161.253.156.110] has joined #lisp 18:38:10 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 18:38:42 the hepatoumbilical cord should come in handy if my liver decides to give birth 18:39:03 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A46E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:03 ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@88-108-28-238.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:09 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:33 Which tutorial is recommended for someone who is confident in Python and C? 18:40:49 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-237.wireless.pitt.edu] has left #lisp 18:42:04 minion: tell ziarkaen about pcl 18:42:05 ziarkaen: have a look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 18:45:34 And cmucl vs. clisp? I'm looking in the ubuntu repository. 18:45:41 sbcl 18:46:20 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:46:31 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:47:15 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.238.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:48:57 Why when I satrt clisp am I confronted with a picture of a Hannukia? 18:49:11 ziarkaen: it's called a menorah. :p 18:50:16 -!- kjfletch [n=kjfletch@94-170-16-78.cable.ubr13.newc.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:50:17 ziarkaen - http://clisp.cons.org/impnotes/faq.html#faq-menorah-why 18:52:29 Oh. Wow. 18:52:35 -!- crod [n=cmell@x250029.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:52:45 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 18:57:53 wow. 18:58:12 I'm shocked there were enough questions about that for it to be included in the clisp faq. 18:58:47 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:58:48 i've seen people not using clisp because of menorah 18:58:55 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:05 looks like it even answers that 18:59:11 well, if I was palestinian, i'd probably not use it either. 18:59:22 but jewishness != zionism 18:59:25 :P 19:00:20 maybe someone don't use sbcl on windows because of kittens of death 19:00:33 kittens of death? :) 19:00:38 I was deeply offended by the reference to masturbation. 19:00:57 see also, dominic-deegan (death-from-above cat) 19:02:01 Fade: kitten 19:02:07 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-237.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 19:02:47 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-237.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 19:03:33 http://groups.google.com/group/gnu.emacs.help/msg/f4f658199b65eeaf 19:03:47 y'know... sometimes, I just seriously feel like i'm on the wrong planet. 19:04:30 you aren't also a Trolleptunian? 19:04:41 Casualty-Headcra [n=thomash@d142-179-21-63.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:46 that guy obviously concurs 19:05:07 i hope not... it sounds like a venerial disease. 19:05:14 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.46.114] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:05:20 http://groups.google.com/group/gnu.emacs.help/msg/9821b1af1dcabff1 19:06:11 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:06:14 *Fade* laughs 19:07:04 I like the "Yes." reply by someone named Eli :P 19:08:09 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit ["bye"] 19:11:01 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-df83006a50440708] has joined #lisp 19:12:06 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:13:31 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:13:44 Does the math in cl-op http://blarneyfellow.wordpress.com/2009/03/05/announcing-cl-op-a-partial-application-library-for-cl/ make sense to anyone? I don't understand the math in the example (mapcar (op / (+ _ _)) '(2 3 4) '(2 3 4)) => '(1/9 1/16 1/5). 19:13:50 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:13:59 LiamH: no, it's a broken example 19:14:29 dlowe: OK, then it's not just me. 19:15:03 Am I correct in guessing that it should be '(1/4 1/6 1/8)? 19:15:19 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:27 yes 19:23:00 -!- iStig [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:23:42 So cl-op does something like what lambda-with-bang-args does in cl-syntax-sugar. 19:24:03 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:24:22 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:13 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-131.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:29:54 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 19:29:57 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:30:33 -!- yafn [n=milwauke@151.60.88.43] has quit ["Sto andando via"] 19:32:16 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@c-67-186-56-85.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:31 josemanuel [n=josemanu@76.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:33:27 Vicfred [n=vicfred@189.228.46.114] has joined #lisp 19:33:37 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@c-67-186-56-85.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:36:41 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:37:07 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:37:20 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@h-66-166-232-134.snvacaid.covad.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:20 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:38:02 -!- ThomasIl [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 19:40:28 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:40:38 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 19:43:53 -!- Vicfred [n=vicfred@189.228.46.114] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:46:47 H4ns3 [n=hans@p57A0C4E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:53 deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has joined #lisp 19:47:21 If f is an instance of an application-frame, how do I tell if f is active? something like (frame-active-p f) ? 19:47:34 i.e. if the frame f has been (run-frame-top-level)'d? 19:47:47 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 19:47:54 Vicfred [n=vicfred@189.228.46.114] has joined #lisp 19:48:03 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-8.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:48:09 It seems that in mcclim, I can tell it via (clim-internals::frame-process f). But, there must be a general function .. 19:50:12 Ah, frame-state must be it 19:51:26 -!- Vicfred [n=vicfred@189.228.46.114] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:51:40 Vicfred [n=vicfred@189.228.46.114] has joined #lisp 19:51:54 UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:36 cmo-0 [n=user@86.99.141.145] has joined #lisp 19:52:37 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has left #lisp 19:52:38 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:52:50 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 19:54:09 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 19:54:28 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@87.196.101.157] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 19:55:27 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #lisp 20:00:38 -!- mije [n=mije@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:02:17 jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:14 -!- ramkrsna_ 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["Quitte"] 22:20:03 -!- karvus [n=thomas@193.213.35.168] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:21:03 p. 177 of franz's clim manual says the format is make-application-frame [Function] 22:21:03 Arguments: frame-name &key frame-class pretty-name frame-manager 22:21:03 calling-frame left top right bottom height width 22:21:03 user-specified-position-p user-specified-size-p 22:21:07 &allow-other-keys 22:21:09 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-25.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:21:34 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:21:35 clim make-application-frame 22:21:35 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/28-2.html#_1481 22:21:38 However, I try: (define-application-frame foo () (:pane ...) (:pretty-name "name")), but it complains about pretty-name 22:22:06 -!- ziarkaen [n=ziarkaen@88-108-28-238.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:22:16 Oh, sorry. Bah, I im so stupid. I spent a half an hour, and didn't see the diff bet. make- and define- 22:22:26 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:22:30 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-25.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 22:22:30 deego: Atleast you gave us something to laugh at ;) 22:22:34 :) 22:23:02 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 22:23:03 It's magic really. spend an hour or two not getting something to work. pop a question in #lisp, and wow. 22:23:08 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-25.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:23:30 -!- KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:23:59 My application frame always needs to be stretched by the user via mouse... and this hapeens every time I dynamically change the layout. Is there a way to specify the min-height for the whole *frame*? (not pane).. when defining the frame (not when making it) ? 22:25:29 I'm thinking :geometry. 22:25:34 But maybe it is somethnig else. 22:25:41 yeah, try that 22:26:09 I would have guessed a :min-width & :width argument to whatever was outermost in your default :layouts 22:26:14 In fact, even if I specify :height 200 when make-ing the frame, it still comes out really small. 22:26:23 or what Krystof said 22:26:30 you might also need :min-height 22:26:35 mcclim is painful that way 22:26:37 My frame simply has two vertically arranged panels, both of which have a min-height of 100 22:26:42 Just set your wm to run everything as fullscreen ;) 22:27:03 and so I am looking for the total frame to start as 200 22:27:06 mcclim is braindead when it comes to layout 22:27:39 deego: well, that's a nice theory 22:27:49 Some Assembly might be Required 22:27:57 "The size options left, top, right, bottom, width, and height can be used to specify the initial size of the frame" 22:28:22 deego: I suggest that you write a nice blog on how to do this thing when you're all done. I'm very interested. 22:28:23 quoting from the spec is all well and good 22:28:41 but, as I seem to keep on saying to you: you might need to fix the code so that it implements the spec 22:28:45 Well I read it all as just use :geometry :) 22:28:58 Krystof: My thing worked out, so that is all well. 22:28:59 I've used geometry, but can't say whether or not it will work here 22:29:03 cool 22:29:29 schmx: Yes, I just tried specifying all 4 as well.. Same result. Let me play with geometry 22:29:36 (: 22:30:03 I'm a little surprised if min-width/min-height on the outermost layout pane really doesn't work 22:30:55 schmx: yes I will :) 22:30:56 I'm not sure that any mcclim borkenness surprises me 22:31:00 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.105.122] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:31:07 maybe someone with infinite time will file bugs 22:31:13 *Krystof* goes to sleep 22:31:34 hefner: I am probably confused. I simply have 2 panes vertically arranged, no outermost pane. 22:31:42 as in, one below the other. 22:32:14 panes don't arrange themselves, there's a layout pane around them. 22:32:15 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:32:27 (vertically () ...) 22:32:54 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:32:55 Oh, spec. there? 22:32:59 I see 22:33:53 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:34:15 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:34:45 if it isn't clear, you can do things like (vertically (:min-width 666 :max-width #xdeadbeef) ...) 22:37:52 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:38:27 No luck with that either. Hm 22:42:07 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:42:58 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:46:39 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 22:47:45 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:51:02 manic12 [i=user@c-98-222-75-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:39 It's gotten a bit better.. When make-ing the pane, I was specifying a height of 200, but that must have been the device's height or such, because it came out really small. When I, for example, specify a :bottom of 20000 there, and remove the :height spec, it comes out to be a full size window. 22:56:12 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:57 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:57 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:44 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:00:50 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:06:37 cipher [n=user@pool-71-184-152-81.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:54 -!- rpg [n=rpg@fw.henn.dunn.pcspeed.com] has quit [] 23:10:01 mikezor [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 23:10:35 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-190-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:11:02 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-190-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:55 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-43-149.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:14:24 iStig [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:00 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:13 I can change my layouts all fine now, but how do I change the menu commands according to the layout? It seems that menu commands are tied to the frame. .. define-framename-command .. 23:22:19 .. and not tied to the layout 23:22:55 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-138-164.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:23:25 it always displays the menu for the frame's command table 23:23:48 so, you get to change the menu commands by hacking mcclim 23:23:57 unless I'm forgetting something.. 23:24:32 When switching layout, I can access its :menu t, and change it to :menu nil.. but there must be an easier layout-specific way 23:25:43 not sure what you want. to just turn the menu on and off, or change its contents? 23:26:00 -!- mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:27:02 hefner: I want to have an entirely different menu for my 2nd layout. 23:27:07 .. within the same frame 23:27:25 milanj [n=milan@77.46.249.165] has joined #lisp 23:27:59 okay, the path of least resistance is to figure out how mcclim constructs the menu out of various menu gadgets, and do the same thing within your layout, rather than trying to change the frame's menu 23:28:35 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:28:37 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:41 this won't necessarily be portable in the sense of being able to read how to do it from the spec 23:29:27 ayrnieu: thanks for the hint on CCL, I had written it off to lacking 32-bit support on darwin.. but with both osx and windows support it will need serious investigation :) 23:29:35 How do I deconstruct my macro define-myframename-command ? 23:30:32 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:30:50 sorry, I figured it out 23:32:35 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 23:37:22 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 23:40:39 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:41:24 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:41:56 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 23:50:55 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 23:51:22 Ah, I can make 2 separate :menu-bar panes ... and display either in each layout .. 23:51:49 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:52:40 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:54 -!- jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:54:02 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]