00:00:50 -!- vinc456 [n=user@unaffiliated/vinc456] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:02:33 -!- crod [n=cmell@x250011.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:04:51 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:05:08 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:05:08 thanks all, night 00:05:10 -!- deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:05:59 drafael [n=tapio@130.216.92.227] has joined #lisp 00:09:37 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:11:20 whoa I used to talk to deego years ago 00:11:55 Hexstream [n=hexstrea@modemcable240.109-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:15:07 Hi, I finally resigned myself to using asdf-install because I can't get cells-gtk to run... But when I do (asdf-install:install 'cells-gtk) then choose a personal installation, it starts downloading but real soon I get a broken connection in emacs... 00:15:43 a-i is not helpful so there 00:16:10 *S11001001* is only slightly less unhelpful 00:16:41 Ah? I thought I was about the only one left who installs all libraries by hand? 00:17:07 well I wrote my own mass repo updater but yeah 00:17:58 -!- slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:18:58 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 00:19:24 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:34 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:21:43 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:23:27 crod [n=cmell@x250039.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:27:41 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [] 00:29:39 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:34:31 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has quit [] 00:36:07 -!- Hexstream 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04:05:11 woopdeedoo [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:34 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:38 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:05:43 -!- woopdeedoo is now known as holycow 04:06:03 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:01 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:17:36 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:18:27 sad0ur_ [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 04:19:27 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-71-146-74-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 04:19:55 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-2-62.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 04:22:34 hi lisp 04:29:51 -!- gcv [n=gcv@ool-4572f4ca.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 04:30:14 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@84.42.251.245] has quit [Success] 04:32:19 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-129-174.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:33:48 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:36:15 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 04:39:27 xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:33 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:47:39 chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:09 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 04:50:46 -!- r0bby_ is now known as r0bby 04:51:30 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 04:53:20 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 05:01:56 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:09 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:50 someone was asking about fast string concatenation in lisp saying (concatenate 'string foo bar) was slow 05:08:01 -!- hugod_ [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442383.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 05:08:09 Does the spec specify how that works? 05:08:24 If not, then it's incoherent gibberish without talking about an implementation. 05:09:06 wouldn't it make sense to bypass the string/character world and treat large string buckets as raw octets (if you know they're ascii/utf-8)? 05:09:14 spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has joined #lisp 05:10:35 Zhivago: was that addressed to me? 05:11:03 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:11:11 Why not use base-char in that case? 05:11:24 You can have strings of base-char. 05:11:39 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 05:11:43 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 05:13:11 nice! 05:14:19 how do i inspect the memory use of (make-string 10 :element-type 'base-char) vs (make-string 10) in sbcl? 05:14:32 hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442383.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:16:51 -!- inverse_schwa [n=archange@cpe-72-228-162-52.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:17:04 archangeleon [n=archange@cpe-72-228-162-52.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:18:16 joshe` [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 05:18:44 -!- joshe [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:22:40 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 05:27:14 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:30:13 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:30:20 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 05:33:23 Good morning everyone. 05:35:12 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-176-79.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 05:35:24 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:36:14 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:36:22 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 05:36:52 hey beach! 05:42:56 cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:45:00 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-69.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 05:45:25 prabu [n=prabu@122.165.28.253] has joined #lisp 05:49:59 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:50:21 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-181-181.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:51:13 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-191-168.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:04 binarycodes [n=Sujoy@59.93.183.152] has joined #lisp 05:52:53 -!- xtagon [n=xtagon@97-113-160-193.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:54:30 wtf? "DART. A logistics app written in Common Lisp for the first gulf war, to free Kuwait from Saddam Hussein. One could say that the war started when this app was ready. The developers worked under intense time pressure to make it possible." 05:55:18 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 05:55:44 http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/juwt/juwt2193.html 05:56:04 what's wrong with that quote? 05:56:52 i thought it was a joke at first 05:57:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Analysis_and_Replanning_Tool 05:57:36 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:58:17 fusss: I think it was even referenced in my AI course, although not by name. 05:58:48 the way the original writer phrased it: "A logistics app written in Common Lisp for the first gulf war, to free Kuwait from Saddam Hussein." Sounds like they started gathering Lispers after Saddam invaded Kuwait and said to them "Alright boys, here is a copy of Franz, we need something by Friday, and oh, don't use defsystem, we're moving to ASDF", etc. 05:58:50 it was mentioned in AIMA, as far as i remember 05:58:51 something among the lines of "application of AI research during first gulf war paid off over 20 years of said research" 05:59:59 -!- binarycodes [n=Sujoy@59.93.183.152] has quit ["leaving"] 06:00:19 *p_l* is still frantically looking through campus where they have hidden the Sun Workstations that had AllegroCL on them 06:02:10 earlier tonight i felt something slide back and forth under my laptop. i took it out and looked at it, it's flat, like a pcmcia card. i looked closer and it was the harddisk. all my running apps were still working! 06:02:37 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:02:42 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:02:46 xD 06:02:56 this sounds suboptimal. 06:03:12 fusss: Did it disconnect? 06:03:58 p_l: i had it in my hand 06:04:41 You turned your laptop into a thin client 06:04:54 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:05:05 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 06:05:47 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-176-79.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:05:50 fusss: That doesn't say that it disconnected from the machine... though it's a laptop, so it rather had. 06:05:59 Unices will happily keep working, though :) 06:08:14 another wtf; the original Amazon webserver, Obidos, was a CL app 06:08:55 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:09 reminds me of http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/hack/recovery.html 06:09:41 bash.org time ;-) 06:10:46 iaindalton: no!no!no! 06:10:57 heh, why not? 06:12:26 iaindalton: two places you don't wanna be; bash.org and codinghorror. 06:12:35 -!- joshe` is now known as joshe 06:12:47 and you don't want to be ridiculed on the daily wtf? :) 06:12:50 ooh, now I feel horrible. I submitted before I mentioned it :'( 06:13:09 I understand codinghorror but why bash? 06:13:59 btw, had a laugh today, when my Emacs got sent on projector. People were like "WTF is Quack? And what kind of menu option is 'Do Re Mi'!?" 06:14:34 dont worry. if it doesnt have any racist references its not going to get posted on bash 06:14:48 iaindalton: i associate bash with the "lol, roflmao" script kiddie crowd 06:15:11 true, there _is_ a lot of that, huh... 06:15:13 it is but its still funny 06:16:30 heh. my personal favourite from bash.org is the one with guy who said he has AIDS when some kid bit him to blood :3 06:16:36 okay so question for all the lispers here 06:16:56 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 06:17:08 -!- crod [n=cmell@x250039.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:17:49 if one were to write a terminal interface of some sort a la bash in lisp ... what might that look like? i've seen people mount emacs as their default shell but i keep on thinking that that sort of thing could be the beginning of something more interesting 06:18:28 would anyone want to even? just curious if the topic has ever been brought up 06:18:38 semi-frequently 06:18:50 holycow: scsh 06:19:03 the `bash but emacs' is eshell 06:19:13 it's a noble dream which I encourage you to pursue to the limits of your sanity 06:19:27 it still looks mostly like bash, unless you want to type elisp at the prompt 06:19:34 oh scheme interpreter 06:19:36 lol 06:19:43 holycow: it's more of a scripting language to avoid hideous shell scripting, but it can be used as a shell directly :) 06:19:47 p_l: funny, although maybe not such a crazy idea 06:19:53 crod [n=cmell@x250047.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 06:20:25 http://clisp.cons.org/clash.html 06:20:50 holycow: Well, now that Scheme48 doesn't have problems on 64bit, I might get it running on my laptop and write administration scripts in it... it's certainly better than bash. It also shows some interesting macros/functions to use in shell-oriented environment 06:20:55 stumpwm is insanely weird as well 06:21:14 iaindalton: great link btw 06:21:26 fusss: oh neat! bookmarking that 06:22:05 p_l: *nod* it's defiantely a neat thought indeed 06:22:20 holycow: are you sthe same person as "divine-bovine"? 06:22:22 clash look slike fun too 06:22:33 fusss: yep 06:22:34 What, the recovery one? 06:22:39 should i appologize? 06:22:48 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-173-58-94-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:22:53 iaindalton: yeah, love that one 06:24:16 holycow: naah 06:25:00 huh 06:25:05 clisp as a shell 06:25:11 thats another interesting thought 06:26:00 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 06:26:02 thank yall for those two ideas, time to dig in 06:33:46 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:34:41 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:35:42 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 06:36:11 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.52.36] has joined #lisp 06:38:56 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:41:20 -!- prabu [n=prabu@122.165.28.253] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 06:41:46 lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has joined #lisp 06:42:41 Justin` [n=user@S0106001346fa331f.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:13 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:44:24 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:46:55 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-243.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 06:51:40 -!- Justin` [n=user@S0106001346fa331f.vf.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 07:02:53 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:02:54 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:06:20 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 07:11:26 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 07:12:42 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-212-164.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:13:56 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-208-199.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 07:16:33 ASau` [n=user@host222-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #lisp 07:18:22 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-212-164.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:36 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0DD01.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 07:20:47 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:26:03 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:15 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A00CA.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:27:46 good morning 07:27:59 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-118-222.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:25 morning 07:29:49 -!- cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 07:36:46 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has 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[Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:00:12 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 08:00:59 hello 08:01:16 sup 08:01:58 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:02:27 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:05:09 -!- Zephtar [n=srusek@d57-112.icpnet.pl] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]"] 08:05:10 -!- spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:05:39 Bootvis [n=brj@g37065.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 08:08:01 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 08:09:16 -!- azanar [n=azanar@edm1a.mavericklabel.com] has quit [] 08:10:19 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:11:18 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:13:05 is there any mailing list for clx/xlib ? 08:13:08 http://lists.metacircles.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/portable-clx <-- seems dead 08:14:26 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.84] has joined #lisp 08:14:32 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-208-199.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:14:58 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:19:34 spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:19:42 Good morning everyone. 08:19:51 -!- iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 08:19:55 mega1 [n=mega@3e44b211.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:20:09 iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:36 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:33:24 _zenon_ [n=x@dhcp-193-152.nomad.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 08:36:15 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:38:00 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-132-98.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:38:37 heya, spiaggia! 08:39:57 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:39:57 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:40:33 -!- iaindalton [n=iain@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 08:42:28 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 08:42:38 -!- jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:43:41 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 08:43:48 *sigh* two hours of boring presentations this morning. 08:44:03 By you or to you? 08:44:27 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:44:35 at him :) 08:45:56 the research group I am in presents every research theme to the president of the engineering school, so I probably have 5min or Gsharp talk/demo somewhere in the middle. 08:46:06 s/or/of/ 08:48:25 The president of Burgundi? :) 08:49:38 I didn't realize Burgundi was the name of an engineering school. 08:50:24 It's not, I've just had an overdose of Izzard the past few days. 08:50:38 ah! 08:51:13 Eddie, I presume? Good stuff! 08:51:28 Oui. 08:52:46 hello minion 08:53:07 adityo: try "minion: hello" 08:53:16 okie .. 08:53:21 minion: hello 08:53:22 what's up? 08:54:49 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 08:56:11 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-129-174.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:57:05 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:57:25 phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 08:57:40 hello Athas! 08:58:04 psyllo [n=psyllo@216-160-225-38.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:06 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:59 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:07:28 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:09:29 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:10:53 -!- _zenon_ 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[n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:17 joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp100.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 10:30:11 ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has joined #lisp 10:30:11 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:31:29 -!- comexk [n=comex@teklinks.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:32:04 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F2BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:23 comex [n=comex@teklinks.org] has joined #lisp 10:32:49 -!- schmx [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:33:27 Quiet here today. 10:33:47 I did my presentation, so now I can participate again :) 10:34:00 :) 10:34:55 alinp1 [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 10:35:27 schmx [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:36:07 hyperbor1ean [n=none@89.18.3.66] has joined #lisp 10:36:22 -!- slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF09C2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:36:22 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.84] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:36:22 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:36:22 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:36:22 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:36:22 -!- deep [n=deep@li61-146.members.linode.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:36:22 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:36:22 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:36:22 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:36:32 slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF09C2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:32 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.84] has joined #lisp 10:36:32 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 10:36:32 deep [n=deep@li61-146.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 10:36:32 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:36 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:36:50 I'm giving a presentation next monday, knowing that I suck at this kind of things makes me a bit nervous 10:36:57 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.84] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:37:08 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 10:37:10 mvilleneuve: Is it related to Lisp? 10:37:18 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 10:37:25 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:37:27 plage: no, it is to get a grant for the startup project 10:37:39 Ah, can't help you there :) 10:37:57 :) 10:38:26 plage: Yours was Lisp related? 10:38:38 plage: What did you talk about? 10:38:39 psyllo: yeah, Gsharp. 10:39:47 I gave a presentation today on Lisp at work. It was my first time ever doing something like that for Lisp. I'm such a newb. It went well I was told though. 10:40:09 psyllo: Congratulations! 10:40:40 psyllo: was this an attempt to get people interested in Lisp, or are you already using LIsp at work? 10:40:47 psyllo: excellent! 10:40:52 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 10:41:39 plage: I am using Lisp at work thanks to cool management. While I'm the only one writing Lisp (because I got lucky) we do have two other Lispers. 10:42:17 psyllo: what kind of projects do you work on? 10:42:48 jewel [n=jewel@wbs-41-208-198-26.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:44:59 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:45:06 -!- deep [n=deep@li61-146.members.linode.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:45:06 -!- slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF09C2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:45:06 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:45:17 mvilleneuve: I just finished getting a tool to a working state that takes our documentation teams DITA XML and allows them to configure and automate builds (convert to HTML, PDF etc) of it. 10:45:35 deep [n=deep@li61-146.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 10:46:54 psyllo: ok 10:47:05 So, the writers write in DITA XML and then the tool I write works with the DITA-OT to automate transformations to all the hundreds of possible outputs for languages, platforms, products, audience etc. 10:47:10 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:36 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-142-67.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 10:47:47 It's like a supplemental tool for working with DITA. DITA is DTD for documentation. DITA-OT is a transformation framework. 10:48:21 It's a Windows app. However, I may rip the face off of it and make a web app out of it. 10:49:12 I do lots of different in-house stuff at work. So, I have opportunities to suggest Lisp at times. 10:49:14 -!- ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:49:21 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:50 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:19 -!- hyperbor1ean [n=none@89.18.3.66] has quit [Client Quit] 10:51:25 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 10:51:36 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:53:35 plage: Yes, it was an attempt to get people interested in Lisp. 10:54:02 plage: Are you wring Gsharp? 10:54:12 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF09C2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:21 psyllo: I am the original author. Right now deliana is working on it. 10:54:36 psyllo: Xof has people working on it as well. 10:55:33 plage: Who is Xof that he can have people working on it? 10:55:54 psyllo: people in his research group. 10:56:59 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:02:30 plage: good to know that there's activity on gsharp... is she hacking on it as part of your research group? 11:03:26 yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:04:22 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 11:05:08 antifuchs: yes, we received financial support for 3 months of hacking. 11:05:18 that's pretty awesome 11:05:41 antifuchs: it means it is becoming recognized, yes. 11:07:28 I think I'll let spiaggia continue this discussion. 11:07:32 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has left #lisp 11:15:16 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:14 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:16:48 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 11:20:24 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 11:20:37 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:21:33 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 11:22:03 ejs2 [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has joined #lisp 11:26:27 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 11:26:39 -!- jewel [n=jewel@wbs-41-208-198-26.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:27:45 -!- dihymo [n=dihymo@75-174-221-4.phnx.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:29:45 jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-118-200.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:33:14 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:49 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:34:22 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-176-79.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:35:12 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-212-164.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 11:35:30 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-212-164.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:55 maodun [n=stopgo@c-24-130-16-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:31 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:41:28 How do I escape a semicolon in a string? 11:41:28 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A61C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:42:08 you don't need to escape it 11:42:46 stassats`: oh, whoops. thanks! 11:42:50 anyway, all characters can be escaped with \ 11:43:23 though, you'd really want to do that only with \ itself and ", as far as i can think 11:48:12 -!- maodun [n=stopgo@c-24-130-16-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 11:49:04 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 11:53:06 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:53:43 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:54:56 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 11:55:31 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:55:33 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:55:45 -!- technik [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:55:48 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 11:55:55 -!- Thas [n=weechat@97-113-44-93.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:56:28 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:40 Thas [n=weechat@97-113-44-93.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:43 technik [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:23 -!- yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:58:43 -!- psyllo [n=psyllo@216-160-225-38.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:00:39 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:03:12 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-142-67.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:04:12 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-212-164.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:04:58 -!- crod [n=cmell@x250047.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:05:32 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 12:05:54 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:54 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:20 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF09C2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 12:19:31 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF09C2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:03 c|mell [n=cmell@y192003.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:27:11 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:27:26 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:28:51 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:31:25 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 12:32:49 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:33:09 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 12:34:18 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:34:30 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:01 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:35:13 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:19 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:36:10 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:41 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:43 LostMonarch [n=roby@82.53.181.209] has joined #lisp 12:39:42 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 12:43:08 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-47-203.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:17 G'morning all. 12:43:54 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Client Quit] 12:44:40 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@82.53.181.209] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 12:45:08 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:45:40 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:46:24 Top o' the mornin', nyef 12:47:01 -!- reikon [n=thomas@unaffiliated/reikon] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:48:08 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 12:49:03 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:04 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:54:46 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 12:55:24 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93-40-119-116.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:00:18 *p_l* is having a go at weblocks. Till now nothing breaks... 13:01:33 p_l: what are you building? 13:02:37 madnificent: Right now a web interface to qemu 13:03:04 ahhh, friend of mine had to do that in rails 13:03:30 cause I decided there's way too many "look, I wrote a blog in 90s" tutorials :) 13:03:39 I think it was qemu/kvm and another thing 13:03:41 hehehe 13:04:03 mvilleneuve: the standard advice for presentations applies: imagine the audience naked ;-) 13:04:11 I'm thinking of later making it into a product I could sell 13:04:11 IMHO, the initial time to write somthing isn't the most important part of the development 13:05:15 yes, but the initial time had proven to be save me once with Rails (back when Rails was new) 13:05:38 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:08:51 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has joined #lisp 13:09:46 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:10:40 *p_l* considers "IT ORKS! IT ORKS! FUCK YEAH!" as the best message a new application can show you :3 13:11:06 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:05 matimago: thanks for the advice, I'll let you know how that works out :) 13:12:58 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 13:13:18 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [] 13:15:15 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:17:19 archangeleon [n=archange@cpe-72-228-162-52.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:38 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-118-222.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:18:00 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-118-222.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:44 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 13:22:10 -!- hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Client Quit] 13:22:18 hyperboreean [n=none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 13:23:08 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(Connection timed out)] 15:18:38 benny [n=benny@i577A00CA.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:17 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:20:42 -!- jfactor [n=john@student166-235.hampshire.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:20:52 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:17 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:27:48 aggieben [n=chatzill@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:32 In normal life (as opposed to ISO standards) what timezone abbreviations do people use? I've used CET, BST and GMT (and does AET or AEST exist?), for example. 15:29:55 IST. 15:31:54 *stassats`* uses MSK/MSD 15:32:11 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA69A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:32:25 *nyef* uses EST/EDT. 15:33:16 CST/CDT too. For once, the american versions are simple and regular. 15:33:32 nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:47 There's also *WT and *PT in America :) 15:33:52 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:34:56 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0DD01.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:34:58 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 15:35:22 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0DD01.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:58 splittist: WIB is one of the indonesian time zones 15:36:44 splittist: I know because one of the TV stations available at the hotel in Saigon was from Singapore and they gave both singapore time and WIB 15:36:56 UT 15:37:03 Thanks folks. 15:37:20 Xof: UT = UTC? 15:37:22 There has got to be a web site dedicated to that. 15:37:39 that too 15:37:54 I almost wrote UTF but that's something different :-) 15:38:03 spiaggia: there are websites that gloss over it, and there are websites with staggering amounts of data aimed at overcoming human messiness. 15:38:30 *splittist* feels like Goldilocks 15:38:54 http://www.timegenie.com/timezones.php 15:40:02 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:40:04 spiaggia: thanks! That's much better than the one I was looking at. 15:40:23 And crucially it has WIB 15:40:35 yeah 15:40:48 Apparently, some software is incapable of handling +13 as a time zone. 15:41:05 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:41:06 let alone +8:45 15:41:09 (they said when I was in TLOTLWC) 15:44:38 *spiaggia* vanishes 15:44:52 HET2 [n=diman@e195-186.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 15:46:40 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:52 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:48:59 archangeleon [n=archange@cpe-72-228-162-52.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:50:16 -!- archangeleon [n=archange@cpe-72-228-162-52.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:50:29 archangeleon [n=archange@cpe-72-228-162-52.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:28 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 15:59:33 -!- jewel [n=jewel@wbs-41-208-198-26.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:03:58 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:04:13 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:48 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:10:53 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F2BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:11:32 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:07 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:12:36 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:47 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:14:12 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"] 16:15:35 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:15:52 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:15:54 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@12-45.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:16:15 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:20 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442383.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 16:18:32 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:06 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 16:19:36 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:20:51 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-142-67.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:20:53 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-118-200.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:21:05 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:22:12 I'm thinkering with the idea of developing a couple of apps for my ancient pda, which is virtually useless with the windows currently on it (really, I'm not randomly bashing here). Is there some lightweight system to draw stuff on the screen (preferably without X, but X can run on it, so X would be fair). I'd prefer it to be as simple as possible, I don't mind creating my own 'windowing' system for et 16:22:26 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:22:27 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@87.236.135.147] has quit [] 16:23:13 Lightweight system for drawing crap on the screen via X? Wouldn't that be CLX? 16:23:49 nyef: quite frankly, I don't know what features CLX has (hence my question). CLX is the way to go then? 16:23:52 directfb for access without X? 16:23:55 Or if you can get a direct pointer to the video buffer, just use a rasterizer. 16:25:30 CLX is basically XLib, which is fairly lightweight. 16:25:32 ah, the days where you could just map video memory onto your program 16:25:43 -!- HET2 [n=diman@e195-186.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:25:49 p_l: there is no lisp library for that, I think... 16:26:10 madnificent: Easily enough fixed... 16:26:35 dlowe: mmap("/dev/fb")? :D 16:27:02 (knows-p *madnificent* 'C :level :acceptable) => nil 16:27:45 (learn 'C) 16:28:03 using X would give me immediate access to the tablet interface, which would probably be a good thing 16:28:07 p_l: I figured out how to get the SRM loaded last night, and ran it as far as the first STQ this morning, so now I'm looking at Mbox faults. 16:29:38 (mindfuck:operate *madnificent* (geas '((learn (lang:C)) (read:book "The C Programming Language"))) 16:29:59 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A61C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:29:59 nyef: wow 16:30:15 p_l: I know pointers etc, but I don't know it good enough to use it... I have some knowledge of C 16:30:28 madnificent: Should be enough, you'll learn by doing 16:30:40 with this much to learn on the lisp side of things, I'll be happy for the next century in any case 16:31:01 I found an ANSI C book after stumbling a lot with a much more advanced book that assumed you knew C :) 16:31:10 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 16:31:57 C is a small language. learn the syntax, learn about pointers, done. 16:32:06 yep 16:32:18 then spend your entire life debugging memory allocation and stray pointers ;) 16:32:48 there's a reason we moved to lisp. ;) 16:32:49 ecraven: and re-writing things that already baked-in to other language stacks 16:32:54 ecraven: Or load a garbage collector and have much of your problems removed 16:33:21 c is a smarter assembler... when you are talking about learning c, you are basically talking about understanding how the hw works. 16:33:28 yep 16:34:07 Um, well, not exactly. 16:34:14 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93-40-119-116.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:34:14 Fade: in that case, I may know C 16:34:24 C is certainly about playing stupid games with bytes, but the hardware is abstracted away. 16:34:40 Zhivago: not abstracted /away/, just abstracted 16:34:51 Zhivago: A portable assembler modeled after PDP-11 :-) 16:34:53 Abstracted involves 'away'. 16:34:53 I remember writing applications in it, but it seems like I've somehow thrown the skill away 16:35:12 Zhivago: nope 16:35:19 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@93-40-119-116.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:35:20 The C Abstract Machine doesn't resemble any hardware that I know of. 16:35:29 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:35:35 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A00CA.versanet.de] has quit [No route to host] 16:36:39 c is a smart assembler, it was even meant to be one back in the times... 16:36:59 afaik the idea was to make programs that write programs :P 16:36:59 too bad people are trying to write secure operating systems in it 16:37:01 register int d0,d1,d2,d3,d4,d4,d5,d6,d7; void* a0,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6; int main () { do_680x0_stuff(); return(0); } 16:37:25 :-D 16:37:27 p_l: smart people don't anymore. They design their own secure language. cf. bitc and coyotos. 16:37:32 who's trying to write secure operating systems? 16:37:43 http://www.coyotos.org are. 16:37:55 a spin-off of eros. 16:38:58 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@dpc6745208046.direcpc.com] has quit [] 16:40:20 btw, the worst bug I encountered in C wasn't caused by C :) 16:41:30 or at least wasn't caused by something I managed to trace down to a fragment of code I tried to compile 16:41:36 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:04 Worst bug? That's a pretty strong characterization! Now I'm curious. 16:43:13 Riastradh: I haven't coded much in C, though. It was worst in the sense that it managed to make me give up. Basically if I linked SQLite statically, everything worked, if I linked dynamically, it trashed stack and jumped to nowhere 16:43:31 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:48 at the same time, sqlite3 cli linked dynamically and worked, linked to the same library. 16:44:09 unfortunately libtool is a maze of twisted passages, all alike >_> 16:44:19 p_l: heh, that's way too simple, it has direct feedback... have you met bugs that trash the memory somewhere and cause a crash two days later? 16:44:40 attila_lendvai: Intel's linux wireless drivers? :P 16:45:43 oh, btw, the bug didn't crash the program. It simply stopped - nothing happening at all 16:46:19 HET2 [n=diman@pns-202-227.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 16:49:57 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:21 -!- alinp1 [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:51:23 benny [n=benny@i577A00CA.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:36 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:55:49 Greetings #lisp! 16:56:03 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-204-5-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:56:06 Hello tmh. 16:57:45 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA69A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:58:00 hello tmh 17:00:09 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 17:00:50 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:01:36 tmh pasted "Saga of Significant figures" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76526 17:02:12 I'm getting close to something that is useful for my unit testing. 17:02:44 Now I'm just trying to account for corner situations such as numbers very close to zero. 17:02:52 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@mue-88-130-84-122.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:30 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-2-5.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 17:09:08 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-5.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:09:28 -!- HET2 [n=diman@pns-202-227.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [No route to host] 17:11:32 deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has joined #lisp 17:12:03 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:12:20 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 My sbcl, compiled with (speeed 3), caches output and flushes it at the end of an hour.. Is there a command that I can insert .. (flush stdout) .. after certain (format t..)'s ? 17:12:57 deego: (force-output) 17:13:00 dlowe: thanks 17:13:11 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:14:00 It's weird. When I load the same core in a slime, the flushes seem to happen immediately .. 17:14:35 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:14:45 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:16:07 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 17:16:30 Reads up... Rather, (finish-output) ? 17:16:32 And here is why I paste even when it gets no comments. In the process of pasting, I noticed that I'm multiplying by 0.1 instead of dividing by 10.0. (* 1.1 0.1) => 0.11000001 versus (/ 1.1 10.0) => 0.11. I should probably use division. 17:18:12 Is there a global I can set, (still keeping (speed 3)), that enables (force-output) universally? 17:18:12 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:18:15 tmh: 1/10 can't be repsented exactly in floating point. 17:18:48 pkhuong: Yes, that's what I was alluding to. 17:18:53 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 17:19:28 deego: you can make a stream without buffering 17:20:33 Ah, I see this http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/slime-devel/2004-December/010648.html 17:22:48 hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442383.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:23:04 (Even if I do, I would have to change every .. format t .. to format stream .. ? ) No way to modify the properties of the default? 17:23:08 and if you really want speed, buffering is not a bad thing 17:23:49 you could bind *standard-output* to stream everywhere 17:23:49 deego: the same way 17:24:09 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:28:02 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:23 what are some tell-tale signs that I should be using a function vs macro? 17:29:02 borism [n=boris@195-50-204-5-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 17:29:13 don't use macro when function will do 17:29:17 evaluating all args sounds like one 17:29:18 Are divisions still slow operations? Back in the 90's when I was learning to code in good ol' Fortran, I was taught to use 0.5*x instead of x/2.0. Does that still hold in general? 17:29:20 if you can do it with a function it should be a function. 17:29:41 ok 17:30:00 does anyone have Graham's ACL handy? I have a question on chapter 16 17:30:42 *tmh* looks at Chapter 16. 17:30:42 Now, that's not to say that you can't declare the function inline or create a compiler-macro to optimize certain cases, but if whatever it is you're trying to do can be done in a function, it should be done in a function. 17:31:05 Cowmoo: I've never worked through that chapter, doesn't apply to what I do. 17:31:06 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:31:14 tmh: I'm at work so can't remember exact page...but 3 pages into the chapter there is a WITH-LINK macro 17:31:24 I am wondering why that is a macro vs function 17:31:32 sulo__ [n=sulo@p57B48D62.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:31:48 does it conditionlly evaluate it's arguments? 17:31:49 i bet it should be a macro 17:31:56 oh actually nevermind, I guess if the passed in call has a side-effect, i.e. calls format 17:32:05 then you don't want it to be called at call time 17:32:12 er , expansion time 17:32:16 Right, WITH-* macros are a common pattern. 17:32:34 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:32:54 nyef: what is the common pattern among them? in this case no var is bound 17:32:59 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0DD01.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 17:33:04 as opposed to WITH-OPEN-FILE or whatever 17:33:51 http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/paulgraham/acl2.lisp has it 17:34:29 :sb-sprof could easily estimate the relative frequency of the calls of a function.. It samples every k seconds and finds the functions we are in.. Each function thus gets a vector [0 1 0 0 1 1 1].. Every flip denotes a new call to a function.. Thus, the relative freq. of this example would be 3 17:34:40 s/the calls/number of calls 17:34:57 well, you could do that by passing a function 17:35:30 IOW, I am looking for a way to estimate the most-called function in my project :-) ... to reduce the overhead .. 17:35:41 functions* 17:35:41 (defun with-link (function) (format t "...") (funcall function) (format t "....")) 17:35:42 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:36:16 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:36:22 Typically, a WITH-* macro establishes something in a dynamic context surrounding its body. 17:36:29 It doesn't have to be a variable binding. 17:37:18 In some software, all of the WITH-* macros expand to invocations of a corresponding CALL-WITH-* function, passing the body as a closure. 17:38:52 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:39:43 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 17:40:26 hm 17:40:42 -!- sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B48D62.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:41:17 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:42:04 hello 17:43:46 KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:43:53 Greetings, MrSpec! 17:45:32 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:41 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:49:06 hello Fare 17:49:21 hi 17:49:53 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 17:52:22 aggieben_ [n=chatzill@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 17:52:27 -!- Bootvis [n=brj@g37065.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:52:30 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:52:31 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 17:53:22 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-212-164.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:46 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:58:52 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:59:55 Do inline functions have an implicit progn? If I call (if a (b)), where (defun b () (c) (d)). Does (d) become the else clause? 18:00:36 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@220-135-231-23.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 18:00:45 Buganini [n=buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 18:01:06 deego: er, all you're saying with the first form is "IF A, do B" 18:01:32 deego: and the second form says, "When B, do C then D" 18:02:07 The second form says: Do c then d 18:02:09 the inlineness of a function is separate from the control flow 18:02:30 if you don't argue this point, you'll comprehend faster 18:02:39 defun has implicit progn 18:03:21 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp100.studby.uio.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:03:22 lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:03:30 no no, not arguing *that* point, just stating what (b) does 18:03:51 deego: ok, but a function application isn't just substitutino 18:03:56 er, substitution 18:04:20 thanks dlowe and stassats` 18:08:16 -!- appletizer 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(No route to host)] 20:15:40 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:16:42 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-188.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 20:17:12 -!- Fuufie is now known as Fufie 20:20:46 tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:57 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:25:25 sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:26:33 deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has joined #lisp 20:27:44 I am reading http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/fun_format.html but can't find it: Does a destination of t to format mean that its stream is bound to *standard-output* ? 20:28:10 So that if I (setq *standard-output* *standard-error*), (format t) will start going to the latter? 20:29:26 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has joined #lisp 20:29:41 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:57 deego: I'm not sure, but can't you just try it? 20:30:01 deego: that's in the glossary under "stream designator"e. 20:30:04 -e 20:30:58 tmh: I did, it wouldn't bind to nil.. should try file... 20:31:01 mgr: thanks 20:31:11 it isn't a stream designator 20:31:14 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 20:32:00 clhs 22.3 20:32:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_c.htm 20:32:05 deego: read this 20:32:59 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-145-79.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:33:12 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:33:29 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 20:33:48 oh yes, sorry 20:34:53 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:34:55 schoppen1auer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:34:57 it's a destination. t is not interpreted via the definition of stream but seperately. "If destination is t, the output is sent to standard output. " on 22.3 Formated Output 20:35:01 -!- schoppen1auer is now known as schoppenhauer 20:36:12 But, the glossory of stream designator said if the destination is t, it's sent to *terminal-io* 20:36:28 http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/glo_s.html#stream 20:36:46 stream variable designator: .. 20:36:54 (though "destination" seems to be no special term but just the name for the parameter of format.) 20:37:24 deego: format doesn't take stream designator 20:37:32 More hysterical raisins. 20:37:39 I see. Thanks everyone. 20:37:53 sorry for having introduced the confusion. 20:39:17 Ah, I finally figured out why my #'fformat that (finish-output)'d the stream didn't work - I needed to flush *standard-output*, not t 20:39:24 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 20:39:46 .. in case the stream was t... and in case the stream was nil, do nothing.. And, finally, should return the value from (format .. ) 20:39:52 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:00 s/stream/2nd argument 20:40:50 finish-output operates on *standard-output* by default 20:42:18 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 20:46:09 stassats`: Yes, but I was operating it the first argument. Which was sometimes t, which however, got interpreted as a stream designator, and got turned into *terminal-io* 20:46:42 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:52:43 jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:25 totzeit` [n=user@c-24-5-85-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:29 -!- totzeit` [n=user@c-24-5-85-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:55:19 Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-79-246.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:55:20 -!- totzeit [n=user@c-24-5-85-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:56:01 totzeit [n=user@c-24-5-85-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:54 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:57:43 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:53 <_3b> any sbcl devs want to check in the ROOM fix, so i can use the official tree instead of maintaining my own? :) 20:59:11 b 20:59:31 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:59:47 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 21:04:06 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:05:07 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 21:05:27 matley [n=matley@host116-159-dynamic.54-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:06:01 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:06:54 -!- Vichfret is now known as Vicfred 21:10:00 lisppaste: url 21:10:00 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 21:11:40 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 21:12:59 Ah, one of the common common lisp pitfalls is apparently: (FORMAT T ...) interprets T as *STANDARD-OUTPUT* All other I/O functions interpret T as *TERMINAL-IO*." 21:13:38 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:14:39 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:14:53 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-16-93.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:15:05 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:24 hi, i am looking for a lisp tool to generate documentations like javas javadoc. can someone point me in the right direction please 21:16:47 klausi: dangerous question 21:17:07 there are multiple ways to generate documentation, but AFAIK, there is nothing that has emerged as a standard 21:17:28 http://www.cliki.net/Documentation%20Tool 21:17:31 madnificent, the standard is /bin/cat 21:17:35 klausi: there probably are many more 21:17:42 great way to extract documentation from source 21:17:56 TINAA is okay. 21:17:57 sed ftw 21:19:22 thx 21:19:47 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:20:03 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:20:04 I prefer documentation-template though. 21:20:28 jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has joined #lisp 21:22:24 -!- jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25:00 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:29:41 eslick [n=eslick@dhcp-23-106.media.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 21:31:04 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:00 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:37:25 mjf [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 21:40:26 jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:29 pjb [n=t@free.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 21:44:09 H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0C4E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:06 H4ns3 [n=hans@p57A0C4E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:15 -!- H4ns3 [n=hans@p57A0C4E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 21:49:27 -!- rpg [n=rpg@75.146.46.193] has quit [] 21:51:58 -!- avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:55:49 dcjackson [n=dcj@dcjmacbookpro.clark-communications.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:33 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:57:34 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:58:01 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:59:39 clhs floating point 21:59:53 clhs: floating point 22:00:01 specbot: floating point 22:00:01 + #\- 22:00:12 clhs float 22:00:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_float.htm 22:01:03 clhs 12.1.4 22:01:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/12_ad.htm 22:02:19 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has left #lisp 22:02:30 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0DD01.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:03:30 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-176-71.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 22:04:31 rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:13 mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 22:06:23 -!- mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:06:50 mrSpec [n=noOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 22:08:04 lacedaemon [n=algidus@88-149-210-99.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 22:08:28 -!- mrSpec [n=noOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Client Quit] 22:08:51 mrSpec [n=noOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 22:09:03 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-69.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:09:05 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 22:10:58 Are floating point operations sensitive to the implementation or just the underlying hardware? 22:11:39 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:44 A bit of both, given machines with a precision control, but at the same time the spec typically limits things a bit. 22:13:57 I'm probably wasting too much time on this, but I want my unit testing to be relatively robust. I want to avoid a situation where it passes on one implementation and not another. 22:14:20 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:14:40 That I can't help you with, I'm afraid. 22:15:18 tmh: if you use lisp-unit, I wrote a fp comparison which you might find helpful http://repo.or.cz/w/gsll.git?a=blob;f=test-unit/additional-definitions.lisp;h=04846f6e85ac00b600a64844c3b8c501a797833a;hb=2504eb486054a850bfce54612f0fab7c7f2c54b5 22:15:46 It's a bit ad hoc, but it mostly works. 22:15:54 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:44 LiamH: Thanks, I do use it and have added 2 basic types of fp comparisons. One is based off of a defined epsilon and relative(roundoff) error and the other is based off of significant figures. 22:16:56 My assumption has been that if the system uses IEEE754 fp for a given number of bits, the answers should always be identical. That isn't always true though. 22:17:18 tmh: well you notice I have the same thing 22:17:32 azanar [n=azanar@edm1a.mavericklabel.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:01 thom_ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:24 hello all 22:18:33 LiamH: You have an epsilon, but not a significant figure. 22:19:02 yes, I read your comment too hastily 22:20:06 the fractional error is something that approximates significant figures, doesn't it? 22:20:36 LiamH: I like the way you have yours organized, though. I've been relying on ASSERT-EQUALITY. I was thinking about defining a numerical assert, but haven't spent the time on it. 22:21:14 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-188.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 22:22:00 I might send this to the lisp-unit maintainer. I'm not sure he accepts submissions but I know of at least one other project that is interested in fp comparisons. 22:23:01 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.31] has joined #lisp 22:24:04 I noticed not much has been done on it recently, so I pseudo forked it and have been tracking my additions locally. 22:24:42 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:27:16 The fractional error will not approximate significant figures. I initially tried that approach and it didn't work. Maybe I'll organize my work a little better and make it public. 22:27:19 I stuck it in GSLL because that's the only place I use it, but it would make sense to be in an expanded lisp-unit if that were to come about. 22:27:28 How do I mkdir via common lisp? (I couldn't find anything in cl-fad either :( ) 22:27:37 deego: ensure-directories-exist 22:27:44 Ah, thanks nyef 22:27:44 clhs e-d-e 22:27:44 ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ensu_1.htm 22:28:39 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-105-243.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 22:28:54 tmh: I'm interested in seeing that. As I said, what I have mostly works for me, but I do notice differences going from 64 to 32 bit platforms (not changing fp size though) which I don't understand. Maybe signficant figures would fix that. 22:29:02 LiamH: I think I'm going to organize my additions in another file, I've just been tacking them onto the end of lisp-unit.lisp. That will make it easier to sync up with any updates. 22:29:15 deego - also: http://paste.lisp.org/display/75743 22:30:16 LiamH: I think if we take some of my code and organize the interface like yours, it would be useful for fp testing. Let me see if I can get something done by tomorrow on that. 22:30:37 ayrnieu: for mkdir? 22:30:39 tmh: Great! 22:31:31 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:32:15 deego - sure, but you already know what to use in that case. 22:32:16 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:33:01 avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:32 Okay, I need to get back to my stuff, finish up this change and log it in the repository. Then, I'll start slicing and dicing the fp unit testing stuff. 22:35:14 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 22:35:26 <_3b> tmh: are you using significant bits or digits? 22:35:34 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:36:27 _3b: I'm using significant digits. Normalizing in base 10 then comparing the exponents and significand. The motivation for this was comparison of results from code with examples in a book that only had 3 or 4 significant digits. 22:36:47 <_3b> ah, guess that makes sense 22:36:56 -!- avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:37:20 In other places, I more interested in differences due to floating point approximation, so I'm trying to think of a rational way to account for variations in implementations. 22:37:28 and hardware 22:37:36 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 22:39:48 I also got a little carried away with my significant digits routines and noticed that I was using them where they really weren't appropriate. I'm correcting that at the moment. 22:39:49 <_3b> tmh: is your normalize-float doing the same thing as cl:decode-float ? 22:40:20 _3b: Roughly, although I don't separate out the sign. I just return a signed significand and exponent. 22:42:10 Is there any project to get a libre' equivalent of hyperspec? 22:42:24 auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-24.residence.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 22:43:30 deego: I don't see much motivation for that because the Lispworks version is accessible. I like it because it is hyperlinked. I've installed the texinfo version for emacs, but found myself still using the LW version because it's quicker to navigate. 22:44:09 Plus there are the lispdoc and l1sp search interfaces 22:44:17 especially with external tools like hyperspec.el , specbot , your own example-laden wiki that points to the spec 22:48:45 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:49:23 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483D98A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:54 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #lisp 22:50:30 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has left #lisp 22:51:02 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-135-143.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:53:54 -!- KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:57:36 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:59:12 -!- bkudria [n=bkudria@kudria.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:20 -!- kidd [n=user@163.Red-88-9-114.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:09 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@mue-88-130-84-122.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:00:35 -!- matley [n=matley@host116-159-dynamic.54-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:06:14 faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 23:06:46 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.31] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:07:04 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"] 23:09:07 appletizer [i=user@82-33-193-218.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:10:28 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:12:00 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-79-246.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:14:03 -!- m7g [n=stefan@78.43.227.147] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:14:15 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:07 bkudria [n=bkudria@kudria.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:13 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:16:39 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:45 jfactor [n=john@student165-147.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 23:22:16 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:23:43 Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:28:32 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-193-16-93.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 23:29:36 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:29:55 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:31:30 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has quit ["dew on the telephone lines"] 23:34:02 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:34:31 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-24.residence.usherb.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:35:26 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 23:40:37 -!- deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:44:38 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:44:48 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 23:48:17 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:49:04 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D42E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:49:06 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:54:29 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:56:45 Tordek [n=tordek@host239.190-227-38.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:58:11 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]"] 23:58:32 rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 23:59:01 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:59:10 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp