00:00:15 toxeus: integer-length does that you need, don't see why it shouldn't 00:00:22 yes, it absolutely does 00:00:29 I was just exploring to learn 00:00:35 thanks for humoring me 00:00:39 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:01:46 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-54.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:03:48 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 00:04:59 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:25 toxeus: you know of the ldb and ash, right? if you know your integer-length (say, working with 32-bit integers) you can pack bits into an integer and take them apart with LDB 00:05:42 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:06:50 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:07:25 http://books.google.com/books?id=iBNKMspIlqEC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0 00:10:08 I knew about ash but not ldb -- thanks for that link, I'm actually trying to do a Gray code with this, so I'm peeking at that section as much as google allows 00:10:20 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:11:55 "Another way that's interesting and almost as good is to determine which bit to flip in G" -- that's what I'm doing! 00:12:43 shame about page 239 being missing 00:13:41 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 00:16:48 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 00:20:52 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-39-43.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:21:46 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:22:47 toxeus: this has some goodies http://www-graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html 00:24:40 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.59.185] has joined #lisp 00:25:36 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:26:12 (defun sizeof-int (int) (truncate (log int 2))) 00:26:34 assuming you don't wanna use integer-length 00:30:14 (1+ (truncate (log int 2))) 00:31:28 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 00:33:00 yeah 00:34:32 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:34:35 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:19 HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:41:55 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-111.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:42:41 -!- ^authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:44:10 -!- HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 00:46:05 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["BB!"] 00:47:24 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:47:29 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 00:48:33 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-111.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["[IRSSI]"] 00:49:13 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-111.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:49:34 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:51:44 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:57:15 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:36 -!- karvus [n=thomas@193.213.35.168] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:00:12 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:42 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 01:06:00 The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087D5A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:18 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D5A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:16:57 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-150-127.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 01:18:11 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483F804.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:18:23 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:18:32 KalifG [n=user@166.128.135.13] has joined #lisp 01:19:05 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 01:19:32 I'm writing a print-object method and would like to print the address of the object like the default print-object method does. Anyone know how to do this in SBCL? 01:19:33 (dolist (cons (flatten-to-cells list)) (when (symbolp (car cons)) (setf (car cons) (intern (format nil "~A-~A" '#:fs (car cons)))))) ;; evil :-) 01:20:12 clhs print-unreadable-object 01:20:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_pr_unr.htm 01:20:20 psyllo: use that 01:20:25 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has left #lisp 01:21:14 ( http://www.cs.umd.edu/~nau/cmsc421/norvig-lisp-style.pdf recommends p-u-o ) 01:27:06 are closures kind of the same thing as static local variables in C? 01:27:24 no. 01:27:27 -!- younder [i=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:28:41 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:04 only vaguely. imagine if, by some magic, you could get unique function pointers to some function, and each new instance got its own copy of the static variables. 01:29:13 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:29:15 (maybe stretching analogies to C isn't such a great idea) 01:29:40 lisabo - in (let ((balance 0)) (defun withdraw (n) (decf balance n))) , you have something like a static local variable. 01:31:13 ayrnieu: yes, a similar example led me to this comparison 01:31:55 hefner: so, if I evaluate the let form again, and it returns another closure, this closure will have its own "static variable" which is independent of the one returned earlier. 01:32:11 hefner: is that correct? sorry for the C terminology misuse 01:33:02 sounds right. it's just a logical consequence of variable scope and the ability to return functions outside the scope where they were created 01:33:42 (multiple-value-bind (withdraw deposit) (let ((balance 0)) (values (lambda (n) (decf balance n)) (lambda (n) (incf balance n)))) (progn (funcall deposit 100) (funcall withdraw 10) (funcall withdraw 10) (funcall withdraw 0))) => 80 01:34:36 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:10 er, the answer is just 'yes'. I don't know why I thought this was a counterexample. You can wrap that let in a defun and return new pairs of withdraw/deposit functions for different balances, yes. 01:35:57 it's kind of a shame the term 'closure' is so prevalent, as though it's a distinct feature 01:36:27 wouldn't it be more satisfying to take it for granted and lambaste certain other languages for having broken scoping rules? 01:36:40 heh 01:36:48 thanks for your example and help :) really appreciate it. 01:37:17 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:37:23 hey, these days, even PERL has proper scoping rules 01:37:48 Perl has had this for about ten years. 01:37:49 -!- toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-63-237.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:37:49 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-115-139.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:38:07 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-140-229.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:38:15 toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-63-237.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:26 good thing python doesn't, or they'd have made up their own godawful term for it 01:38:37 stassats`: I saw that. I didn't realize it did what I needed it to but it sure does. Thanks. 01:39:57 hah, not ten years. Sixteen years. 01:39:58 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.135.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:40:14 I'm impressed. 01:40:24 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AD30.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 01:40:32 KalifG [n=user@166.128.135.13] has joined #lisp 01:40:36 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-54.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 01:40:47 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-99.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:41:10 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-140-229.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:16 yeah, all the languages that sacrifice macros for cute syntax are decades behind Perl. 01:41:25 i wish i could quit you, firefox *sigh* 01:41:37 fusss: try Conkeror 01:41:38 ;) 01:42:21 stassats`: I'm reading OOP in CL (keene) right now and the example of print-object she gives uses (sys:%pointer obj). I didn't notice anything in sb-sys that did the same thing. 01:42:49 -!- authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-111.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:42:51 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 01:42:59 psyllo: that SYS package is from a lisp machine, and taking object pointers is not portable 01:43:00 Not to say that it should or anything, but I was wondering if there was a similar way to do this. 01:43:14 psyllo - the similar way is 'use print-unreadable-object' 01:43:22 psyllo: that's not portable code, only an example. You could use sb-kernel:get-lisp-object-address. 01:43:29 there should be an extra argument to print-object for printing the identity 01:43:51 :identity t 01:43:55 -!- The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087D5A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:44:15 yes, but it's for print-unreadable-object, not print-object as i said above 01:44:33 Yeah I realized her code wasn't portable. She mentioned that in the intro. Just curious about it is all. print-unreadable-object is exactly what I need though. 01:45:09 psyllo: have you made love to make-load-form yet? fun times! 01:46:28 fusss: No, I haven't had that privilege ;) 01:47:24 AZureljas [n=Azure@118.68.154.218] has joined #lisp 01:47:41 -!- AZureljas [n=Azure@118.68.154.218] has quit [Client Quit] 01:49:20 I'm putting together an one hour introductory presentation to Lisp and Common Lisp. 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toxeus: TAB TAB TAB before every form and see if something indents itself 02:17:38 assuming you're working in emacs 02:18:00 if this is emacs, M-x check-parens 02:23:12 that would make sense because I deleted a progn but it still looks right 02:23:20 can I paste 4 lines in this channel? 02:24:01 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:24:18 use http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp 02:25:03 toxeus pasted "filter" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76345 02:25:18 that's really cool 02:26:35 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:27:44 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:28:13 folds are pretty cool, but you can say: (remove-if-not (lambda (model) (pl-true sentence model)) symbols) 02:28:17 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:23 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-211-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:29:13 alas, it is not my option, and I am not allowed to generate all the models at once 02:30:04 that doesn't give me an error 02:30:16 maybe it's something in the rest of the file 02:30:30 but it only cropped up when I added this part 02:30:42 bit rot? 02:30:44 what error do you get? 02:30:57 could changing from dos to unix fileformats make this happen? 02:30:58 in vim 02:31:14 it oughtn't. 02:31:25 toxeus annotated #76345 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76345#1 02:31:49 oh, that's the error I get from clisp 02:32:05 oh 02:32:06 hahaha 02:32:11 the teacher made an error 02:32:15 and I copy-pasted his error 02:32:25 he gave that line with an extra close paren 02:32:31 sorry for wasting your time 02:32:41 it was the call 02:36:28 -!- azanar [n=azanar@dsl231-050-036.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [] 02:36:39 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:39 -!- Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-46.dial.nortenet.pt] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/"] 02:37:39 -!- toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-63-237.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:37:54 -!- HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:38:56 -!- prip_ [n=_prip@host139-83-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:39:10 prip_ [n=_prip@host7-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 02:42:42 sorry, it's me again, with yet another novice question: could you use closures as a poor man's OOP class? where the closures themselves are the member functions and the bindings they close over are the member variables? 02:43:13 that's a technique, yeah 02:43:54 lisp really amazes me. such a simple concept like closures and so many opportunities that arise out of this. 02:44:04 closures are a poor man's OOP class, but OOP classes are also a poor man's closures. 02:44:14 necker cube and all that 02:44:43 heh 02:44:43 problem being, all these languages that FORCE you to see things only one way 02:44:53 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:03 whereas with macros, you can go from one way to the other 02:45:11 Just as long as you have funcallable structures. 02:45:37 or a trivial code walker to insert "call" everywhere. 02:45:48 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 02:45:59 PLT has a magic such thing in its macro expander 02:46:03 Fare: in what way are OOP classes a poor man's closure? I haven't read all the way to the chapter about OOP, but I'd be glad if you enlighten me :) 02:46:26 lisabo: Mainly in the way that OOP classes don't do lexical closure. 02:46:41 lisabo: see java's inner classes. 02:46:56 Well, java's inner classes are closures. 02:47:28 lisabo: or the way you emulate them when you don't even have inner classes. 02:47:30 If you have OOP classes, you can make things that are effectively stateful functions, which is what that largely refers to, imho. 02:47:47 explicitly saving all your variables in a frame. 02:47:51 But I wish people wouldn't confuse those things with lexical closures. 02:49:16 if you have objects with an "apply" method, you can have them store all the variables they close over in slots 02:49:50 and have essentially one class per scope that may be closed over 02:50:09 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:50:26 (each scope-class inheriting from the scope-class of the enclosing scope) 02:51:29 (or linking back to it, depending on whether you use shallow or deep binding) 02:52:41 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-81.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:52:56 you may thus implement closures as objects from classes that inherit from the "applicable" class. 02:52:57 -!- semyon [n=semyon@217.67.122.44] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:53:47 Well, you can implement what closures may be implemented as, but the lexical closure bit disappears. 02:54:10 it's very painful, because you must propagate all these variables manually (unless the language does it for you, as with final variables in java inner classes) 02:54:47 Zhivago, hence "poor man's" closures. 02:55:03 toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-63-237.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:52 if your language doesn't have OOP (e.g. pascal), then you can't have an abstract method (generic function) "apply" that can uniformly apply to all closures. 02:57:15 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 02:57:25 (though you can go deeper in the Turing tar-pit and explicitly encode such) 02:57:29 so you define a lambda-like that returns a class when called in a particular way. 02:58:14 lisabo: what book are you reading? 02:58:16 the particular way being a convention to lexically or dynamically passing around the enclosing scope. 02:58:54 which is macro-hidable, if you have macros. 02:59:07 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:59:19 vostibackle: practical common lisp 02:59:41 Zhivago, what are you working on, these days? 02:59:53 benny` [n=benny@i577A09BE.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 02:59:54 freelab [n=freelab@58.62.4.126] has joined #lisp 03:00:33 lisabo - LOL is a good book for all of this. 03:00:35 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A127C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:00:35 -!- freelab [n=freelab@58.62.4.126] has quit [Client Quit] 03:00:56 LOL? 03:01:16 Let Over Lambda. Some of it is online. 03:01:45 nice title... I'll search for it. thanks 03:02:11 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:02:42 how does it compare to "On Lisp"? 03:02:46 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:13 Fare - it suggests that you read On Lisp first. 03:03:32 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:05:45 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:59 "it" being my question, or the book? 03:09:30 the book itself does. 03:10:00 ok 03:10:02 that'd be a pretty jerky thing for me to say, otherwise :-) 03:12:14 -!- elurin [n=user@88.231.223.140] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:12:39 the interesting-looking chapters seem to not be online 03:13:11 younder [n=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 03:15:10 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:18:11 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:23 -!- tetha [n=hk@pD9EE7808.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:18:32 azanar [n=azanar@67-134-197-171.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:32 tetha [n=hk@pD9EE60EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:40 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:21:04 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:21:22 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:12 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:24:07 chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:12 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:31 -!- benny` is now known as benny 03:32:42 "In principle it should be possible to use another implementation of Common Lisp as the host compiler, rather than an older Clozure CL; this would be a challenging and experimental way to build, and is not described here." 03:39:57 KalifG [n=user@166.128.135.13] has joined #lisp 03:45:55 mornin' 03:48:25 cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:48:33 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslc-082-082-054-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:45 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.135.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:54:40 -!- prip_ [n=_prip@host7-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:54:48 foobar__ [n=_prip@host81-195-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 03:56:03 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.133.217] has joined #lisp 03:57:42 how does ccl compare to sbcl on linux? 03:58:30 i really could use a back up option for a fastcgi-based lisp farm 03:59:30 ayrnieu: "how does it compare to On Lisp", kudos mate, you just missed the joke of century :-P 03:59:42 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.3.64] has joined #lisp 04:00:01 Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 04:00:57 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:03:43 KalifG [n=user@166.128.135.13] has joined #lisp 04:04:03 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 04:05:51 jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:06:55 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 04:07:53 fusss - LOL vs. OL? 04:08:39 LOL is L better than OL? 04:09:42 (* L (expt 10 2)) ? 04:10:41 #'* is not concatenative 04:11:01 L could be numeric. 04:11:33 I recommend that you read Let Over Lambda On Lisp, with normal evaluation. 04:11:42 i thought it was a symbol macro, expanding to a surprise Tiffany's gift basket for the ladies 04:12:48 oh, i remember Let Over Lambda 04:13:12 wasn't it announced in cll buy a guy who was a "Chief Lisp Architect" or some such? 04:13:38 -!- slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:14:36 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslc-082-082-054-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:14:37 people have a lot of funny anecdotes about LOL, but the book's own descriptions "then you must be in the top %1 of programmers" suffice. It has these instead of funny names for its variables. 04:15:29 Python: spam = green + eggs # __add__ throws an error here. 04:15:51 LOL: I will now explain why Scheme is wrong about this. 04:16:08 ROFLMAO 04:16:38 ruby on fucking linear machine automated objects 04:16:38 if you smile at LOL, your sense of humor is in the top %1 04:17:28 yo fusss 04:17:41 fusss, have you left the area yet? When were you planning on leaving? 04:17:46 slyrus [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:04 sbahra: not quite yet, msg me :-) 04:23:29 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.135.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:25:33 dgou [n=dgou@c-67-163-142-94.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:44 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:27:52 ayrnieu: are you sure he is being deliberately funny? seems a bit Xahish, imo. Mantifex was funny too. 04:29:35 -!- woopdeedoo is now known as holycow 04:31:04 KalifG [n=user@166.128.135.13] has joined #lisp 04:33:06 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:33:43 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:12 fusss - it's plausible. Artful exaggeration is more than a few thousand years old, and the meat of the book certainly doesn't read like the cover of the book. Also, it's much more likely than the "oh, this is the guy who doesn't know Common Lisp" you get from people who've 'read' the book. 04:38:56 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:39:18 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:40 c.f. http://paste.lisp.org/display/75921 04:43:53 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:43:55 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:44:05 fairly profound 04:44:49 more so in context. 04:46:41 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.135.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:47:32 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:20 sorry about the skepticism; too many people on usenet are off their medications for me to see what is humor and what is lunacy. 04:49:08 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:50:34 Leo Brodie did the back-cover cartoon? 04:50:49 yeah, that cartoon is out of Thinking Forth (which is online). 04:51:41 i have TiF xeroxed on my desk from 10th grade in high school :-) 04:53:51 one of those books that everyone should read :-) 04:54:36 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:55:53 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:04:35 I should really get back to forth one of these days... 05:05:00 the last time I had seen anything in it was a book about programming forth I think on 6502 :) 05:06:22 get gforth. It's portable, has an excellent manual, is pretty fast, comes with a ton of code, has a good ffi. 05:06:45 p_l: did it have a cyber-barbarian on the cover? =p 05:08:19 _mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 05:08:24 hefner: No. It had standard, template cover of a certain book series in a communist country that was trying to recover at least a little computing knowledge from the imperialist attack of COCOMO ;-) 05:09:08 *p_l* thinks he should stay away from IRC at 5am 05:09:43 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:10:35 anyway, the publisher was very good. I had a ton of books bought back during that time by my father, describing various stuff in better way than I often see today 05:10:48 timecard.lisp 05:10:55 whoops, sorry 05:12:46 (with-db (convert-notes-to-timecards)) 05:12:46 05:12:53 damnit all.. 05:13:29 for some reason the ERC prompt is looking like the slime repl today. 05:13:59 drewc: that's some good bourban you got there :-) 05:14:41 time to change packages 05:14:42 of course, bourban is what they drank during the prohibition era. i'm sure you're drinking bourbOn 05:15:01 fusss: moonshine sounds bettr 05:15:03 *better 05:15:55 bettr (n): a brand of moonshine popularized by web 2.0 weenies and domain squatters 05:16:19 ... 05:16:31 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:17:26 isn't verisign the biggest domain squatter? 05:18:31 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host242.190-138-165.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:21:28 Tordek [n=tordek@host196.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 05:22:12 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:22:12 BTW, I got to play with VMWare Server today. If anyone would replicate their JS UI as a package for Lisp, it would be quite a powerhouse in "enterprise" :D 05:22:35 (unless it's already some common Java thing) 05:23:44 -!- dgou [n=dgou@c-67-163-142-94.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:26:10 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:26:24 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-81.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:34 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:31 -!- cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:28:41 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:29:26 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:32:01 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 05:32:05 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 05:32:27 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:34:20 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:34:41 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:35:25 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 05:35:42 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:36:08 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:36:49 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host190.190-138-154.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 05:38:25 i like the gotomeeting remote desktop thinggie 05:41:09 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host196.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:41:39 iceman_ [n=iceman@121.223.198.16] has joined #lisp 05:43:56 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:56 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.133.217] has quit [Success] 05:46:02 binghe [n=binghe@60.12.227.4] has joined #lisp 05:47:39 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:10 -!- iceman_ [n=iceman@121.223.198.16] has quit ["I am Iceman, Linux hero of time!"] 05:49:54 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:58:14 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:59:02 the vmware server web gui is quite impressive 06:00:00 joshe: When I found that there was no native gui I thought I would have to use another Java mindfuck 06:00:12 it quite pleasantly surprised me 06:00:31 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:00:57 ayrnieu: I love that "Theory of Brevity" quote. Where did you find that? In LOL? 06:00:58 the thing is, don't run it in Opera. Firefox, otoh, makes it quite snappy 06:01:08 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:01:42 I was a little annoyed by having to use firefox instead of chrome to get their console plugin thing to work 06:02:52 joshe: Yeah, they could use npapi, but it's sometimes harder to install and manage. bundled xpi (and 64bit too!) was nice 06:03:57 *p_l* finds it still quite hard to get some plugins on 64bit ff 06:04:00 manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:40 I was expecting something quite painful when I decided to play with vmware server, and was pleasantly surprised to find it mildly annoying 06:04:49 :-) 06:05:31 my main negative points about it: 1) not every linux uses system V init 2) lsmod isn't necessarily in /sbin 06:06:41 -!- azanar [n=azanar@67-134-197-171.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [] 06:06:43 and 3) It's not as fast or agile as I expected. Or at least it fails with windows 7 4) I want 64bit guests without HVM. (this applies to all virtualization products I know of) 06:06:58 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:07:03 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.59.185] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:07:23 What is HVM? 06:07:57 current buzzword-compliant acronym for hardware assistance for virtualization on x86/x86-64 06:07:58 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 06:08:50 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:08:59 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 06:09:13 I really pity the fact that AMD kept most of x86 bits in x86-64 06:09:34 What does "duplicate case label quote" mean? Nothing much turns up on google and it's not obvious (like, I don't have two cases with the same label) 06:10:08 maybe you're quoting your case labels, like with ' 06:10:13 hello 06:11:09 yes, I am 06:11:11 is that not allowed 06:12:09 clhs case 06:12:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_case_.htm 06:12:16 Good morning. 06:12:28 does somebody here have experience with porting allegro code to sbcl (using acl-compat) ? 06:12:35 good morning, beach 06:13:18 or are there any resources about that, somewhere? 06:13:26 toxeus: case labels are not evaluated, so if you quote them, you will get a label called `quote', and probably several. 06:14:32 you would pitty them more if they didn't leave those in, isn't that what happened with itanium? 06:15:04 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:17:38 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:22:36 holycow: Itanium's hw x86 emulation was worse than JIT rewriters 06:23:33 also, intel royally screwed it. I can't find the exact source, but I heard the whole Itanium 2 line has it's core made completely by impatient HP 06:24:29 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:24:45 another thing is that it would be harder to make fast hw emulation of x86 on itanium. On a classical RISC, not so much. 06:27:59 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-248.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 06:29:49 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 06:37:35 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.50.208] has joined #lisp 06:37:36 -!- toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-63-237.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:38:05 toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-63-237.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:42 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:45 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 06:46:51 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [] 06:51:21 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:51:35 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 06:52:00 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:53:10 azanar [n=azanar@dsl231-050-036.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:20 -!- haimez [n=haimez@c-76-104-23-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:59:29 cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:05:42 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has joined #lisp 07:15:38 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:15:52 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:17:46 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:19:18 Hello 07:19:45 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 07:23:44 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:27:20 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:28:07 meep. 07:35:10 minion: memo for nyef: As you were working, or at least thinking, about unwinding in SBCL, I thought you may be interested in http://www.nongnu.org/libunwind/ 07:35:11 Remembered. I'll tell nyef when he/she/it next speaks. 07:35:37 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.50.208] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:37:25 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 07:38:27 patmaddox [n=pergesu@c-67-170-255-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:22 dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-44-35.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:45 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:43:48 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:43:57 good morning 07:44:49 -!- dwave [n=ask@084202075100.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 07:45:29 -!- xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:51:07 sulo [n=sulo@p57B4B412.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:51:28 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-248.static.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 07:52:47 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 07:54:11 X-Scale2 [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has joined #lisp 07:54:51 -!- X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:59:19 mega1 [n=mega@53d8396c.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:59:49 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 07:59:56 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 08:02:07 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-140-229.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]"] 08:03:15 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.51.223] has joined #lisp 08:04:01 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:04:13 dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 08:05:40 -!- mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075691pcs.unl.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:06:05 pierre__thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:13 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-186-123.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:10:19 -!- pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:10:34 yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:13:23 sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 08:14:40 -!- yasuto [n=yasuto@pon100-117.kcn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:15:58 -!- sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Client Quit] 08:18:39 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:20:35 haimez1 [n=haimez@c-76-104-23-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:10 quick question, for some reason slime won't let me use the (defpackage :package (use :p1 :p2 :p3)) 08:21:28 or defpackage at all actually 08:22:20 :use. 08:23:49 well now I'm sure I look quite dumb 08:24:00 and it's normal for it not to accept defpackage at all after that 08:24:07 even with out the (use) 08:24:21 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:24:46 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:59 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:26:38 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:35 pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:46 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 08:33:45 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:34:13 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 08:34:41 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 08:38:18 -!- cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:38:55 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:40:00 -!- pierre__thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:41:02 hmm... does anyone knows how good is swig->cffi/uffi with regards to wrapping C++? 08:45:09 p_l, doesn't suffice, as C++ name mangling is not standartized. 08:45:56 p_l, the typical approach is to extern "C" your way out of the C++-land, and the bind to that. 08:46:08 s/and the/and then/ 08:47:11 hmmm... reading through the docs, it looks like swig generates and intermediate C file when creating C++ wrappers for CFFI 08:47:33 Nice, I didn't know about that. 08:47:41 -!- bombshelter13 is now known as bombshelter13_ 08:49:34 karvus [n=thomas@193.213.35.168] has joined #lisp 08:49:41 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 08:50:09 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 08:50:10 "Generating bindings for C++ code, requires -c++ option to be present and it first generates C binding which will wrap the C++ code, and then generates the corresponding CFFI wrapper code." 08:50:40 -!- bombshelter13 is now known as bombshelter13_ 08:51:11 -!- yonkeltron [n=user@unaffiliated/yonkeltron] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:51:46 Yeah, looks like stuff that could be expected to be done by SWIG, indeed. 08:51:48 Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has joined #lisp 08:51:56 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 08:52:10 toddoon [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:35 I'll have too look into it, on both windows and linux 08:52:45 it would be nice to have Qt4 bindings :) 08:52:48 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 08:53:30 p_l: thats a question i've had for a while 08:53:45 what it would take to get qt4.4+ bindings ... perhaps even integration into kde 08:54:34 holycow: SWIG looks like it has some support and lack of love :) 08:54:48 I'm more interested in pure Qt4.5 though 08:55:21 although i'm curious if qt bindings are a tactical mistake 08:55:32 c++ stuff will always be a moving target 08:56:33 well, it seems easier than "port mcclim to windows and make it properly integrate" 08:58:39 thats a good point 08:58:57 personally thats not a platform i care about but from a business perspective yeah 08:59:03 SMOKE/kdebindings should make that a SMOP 08:59:58 Fufie [n=poff@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:00:04 (http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Languages/Smoke) 09:01:07 hmmm 09:01:12 I'll have to check that 09:01:32 so you could target that + kde 09:01:45 and as kde becomes more stable on all platforms get instant portability 09:01:46 neat 09:02:19 well... I'll use it, if I can get it without rest of kde :) 09:02:47 kde 4.x or greater is designed for that from what i understand 09:03:11 you will haveto distribute core kde4 libraries though i'm sure 09:03:35 well, my initial idea was to make the resulting binding dependant only on qt4.5 libs 09:03:55 IIUC, that thing gives you separate bindings for qt and the rest of kde 09:04:06 oh neat 09:04:06 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:23 good 09:04:32 I don't want kde libs on my lappy :) 09:05:34 FufieToo [n=poff@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:05:34 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 09:09:01 -!- azanar [n=azanar@dsl231-050-036.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [] 09:09:56 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:12:08 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-81.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:12:56 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB9EFB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:14:18 debian has a package called cl-mcclim-examples ... how does one use that, anyone know? 09:14:30 it's installed but i'm not sure how to run the examples 09:14:46 don't use packages from debian 09:15:16 i guess google examples of sbcl compliant programs instead? 09:15:49 (require :clim-examples) (clim-demo::demodemo) 09:15:57 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:16:01 k. danke 09:16:54 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 09:16:56 neerolyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 09:17:05 -!- neerolyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 09:17:12 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 09:17:40 -!- haimez1 [n=haimez@c-76-104-23-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:18:18 exumirabilis [n=u@dslb-084-056-131-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:26 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:18:46 xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 09:21:43 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:21:51 Should I count on this? (eq (type-of obj) (class-name (class-of obj))) 09:22:55 -!- Fufie [n=poff@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:23:00 <_death> no 09:25:08 hmmm.... it appears that swig might be helpful even with smoke - smoke exports a C++ class >_> 09:25:13 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@andromeda.flcgil.it] has joined #lisp 09:27:33 psyllo: types are not the same as classes; there is no class fixnum, for instance. 09:28:03 although all classes are types 09:29:14 azanar [n=azanar@dsl231-050-036.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:56 <_death> there certainly is a fixnum class 09:31:16 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.51.223] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:31:28 there is? 09:31:36 clhs fixnum 09:31:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_fixnum.htm 09:31:47 hmm, where is it? 09:32:23 integer is a class, but not fixnum/bignum 09:33:13 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA24C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:33:16 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-81.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:33:27 if i'm running a script of some sort or am half way through an asdf install of something and i want to cancel something half way through ... what is the standard way to do this in sbcl? often it seems i can type (quit) or something and get out, there must be a proper way 09:33:35 http://ecls.wiki.sourceforge.net/space/showimage/eclm2008.pdf <-- I like when it gets to comparison in data representation... 09:33:59 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.51.223] has joined #lisp 09:34:05 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 09:34:17 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.173.51.223] has quit [Client Quit] 09:34:31 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-81.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:35:07 <_death> jdz: hmm, interesting. sbcl returns a fixnum class when (find-class 'fixnum) is evaluated. guess it's not portable. 09:35:25 well, try (type 42) in your sbcl 09:35:30 *type-of 09:35:42 <_death> type-of returns a type specifier, not a type 09:36:09 so you found an answer to your original question yourself then? 09:36:39 <_death> "you"? I didn't ask any question. 09:36:52 oh, sorry. 09:37:23 Be careful to distinguish between class and type :) 09:37:54 You should note that the class fixnum in sbcl is a subclass of integer ... 09:37:57 <_death> class names are type specifiers, but the converse is false 09:38:14 _death: is there a way to get a type in CL? 09:38:25 and be careful not to talk about types with Zhivago (unless you want to spend some time discussing :) 09:38:29 <_death> matimago: no 09:38:52 CL has no first class types, but what's wrong with a type specifier? 09:39:10 (and why do you want the type, anyhow?) 09:39:47 It's ok, but we can say "type" when we only have a "type specifier". 09:40:13 _death: How did you figure out that sbcl returns a fixnum class when (find-class 'fixnum) is evaluated? 09:40:14 Why would you want an equivalence class anyhow when you say 2? 09:40:33 <_death> psyllo: try to evaluate it? 09:41:10 _death: Okay. I was thinking it returned a numeric value. 09:41:19 isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:20 jero [n=jer@salle008.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 09:41:32 hello all 09:41:36 good day 09:41:38 hello jero 09:41:39 how're you 09:42:00 afk 09:43:12 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 09:43:14 fine thank you 09:43:20 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:43:45 jero - are you a programmer? tell me what you're working on 09:44:08 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:44:24 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:04 holycow: In SLIME C-c C-c 09:45:26 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 09:46:44 psyllo: ah *nod* sorry forgot to mention i was in the sbcl shell. does anyone ever use that even? 09:46:51 does anyone know of a good (complete) ELIZA example for an aspiring chat-bot programmer? 09:47:27 isismelting: emacs? 09:47:34 holycow: C-c? 09:47:43 jdz: emacs & slime 09:47:52 minion: hello. 09:47:53 what's up? 09:48:00 isismelting: i mean M-x doctor 09:48:03 minion: please tell isismelting about yourself! 09:48:04 isismelting: what's up? 09:48:23 <_death> minion: tell isismelting about paip 09:48:25 isismelting: please look at paip: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/paip 09:48:42 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #lisp 09:48:45 is anyone here Peter Norvig by chance? 09:48:45 isismelting: PAIP has a chapter on implementing ELIZA :) 09:48:58 no i'm only a student isismelting ^^ 09:49:04 <_death> it contains a reconstruction of Eliza.. likely you'll want to add ze rules 09:49:06 Peter Norvig is most likely to be found in #python ;) 09:49:15 and you can find Guy Steele over at ##java 09:49:20 here's the thing 09:49:28 All treators... 09:49:33 i have his paip and i learned so much from it! but 09:49:46 the eliza seems overly-complicated for some reason 09:50:07 probable is: i am one of those new-to-lisp people looking at code that is too good to look good to them 09:50:12 <_death> heh, it seems very simple once you assume a pattern matcher 09:50:14 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB9EFB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:50:27 but i just a moment ago finished my own eliza that i "think" is better than the one in paip. 09:50:53 if someone would want to look at the code i'd like that but i was not planning on asking anyone to spend so much time... 09:54:22 since i think i'm sounding stupid, what with no response, let me ask this: are the PAIP programs much better than i think, and it is simply a matter of my being inexperienced or having another shortcoming that i think my eliza is "better" ? 09:55:02 better is subjective. nobody can comment on that unless you elaborate. 09:55:32 <_death> I find PAIP to be an amazing book.. the programs presented are beautiful. 09:55:41 jdz - would you care to look over my eliza? i completely understand if you say no, i didn't come in here meaning to ask such a favor. 09:55:44 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@c-67-170-255-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:56:34 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:56:53 *isismelting* wishes there was a way to hand someone twenty dollars through irc to ask them to look over code 09:57:42 so you were not planning of asking that, but are ready to hand over $20? 09:58:01 _death: I think I got part of that whole type vs class conversation. What did SBCL do that you didn't expect it to? 09:58:05 Spaija [n=Spaija@nat/cisco/x-c06d71ac7ae95bbb] has joined #lisp 09:59:09 I'm a bit lost. I do see that (find-class 'fixnum) returns a class, so I guess it has a class. CLHS shows fixnum as being a type with supertypes but those are classes starting with integer. 09:59:20 jdz: i just am kind of stuck - i feel like my version is "better" but i KNOW it's not, and i don't really know how to find out WHY i'm wrong 09:59:24 <_death> psyllo: sbcl did everything I expected it to. I also assumed the fixnum class to be a standard class, but that was wrong. 09:59:50 jdz: maybe i should just kind of f* off & read more books instead of looking for a shortcut through help on irc. 09:59:55 isismelting: ok, why do you think your version is better? 10:01:06 jdz: subjectively because it seems shorter, neater & more intuitive. objectively because i am not extremely experienced with lisp/programming in general & am autistic & etc. 10:02:58 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@andromeda.flcgil.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:03:01 <_death> minion: tell isismelting about lisppaste 10:03:02 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 10:03:24 <_death> isismelting: you could paste it and maybe someone will have something to say about it 10:04:04 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:04:37 thank you but for a particular reason i am afraid of embarrassing myself and wasting people's time... 10:04:53 i did put the thing up at meerkat.cc/eliza/ if anyone would like to see. 10:05:07 everyone's been very helpful already though, thank you very much 10:05:37 _death: Then is the second paragraph correct on this page? http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node273.html 10:05:53 didn't you just claim that your eliza is "better" than norvig's? 10:05:59 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 10:06:05 Specifically the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph. 10:06:15 no H4ns1 - that is not at all what i meant to say!!!!!!!! 10:06:22 *g* 10:06:38 i'm sorry i'm very bad at communication, please give me a break: ... 10:06:41 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-186-123.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:06:51 to me, mine seems better. i KNOW i am wrong. i do not know WHY i am wrong. 10:07:08 -!- GrayMagiker [n=Twilight@75-173-4-175.albq.qwest.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 10:07:10 Peter Norvig is amazing and PAIP is practically sacred to me 10:07:42 i'm sorry i said anything about my stupid little eliza being "better" - i did not say the right thing. 10:07:52 relax 10:08:07 ok :) 10:08:26 <_death> psyllo: yes 10:08:39 H4ns: You are supposed to say, "The Lisp Gods accept your broken heart and contrite spirit." 10:08:40 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:08:59 psyllo: that comment is left for someone else to make. 10:09:17 Word 10:11:28 -!- jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:11:37 there is a .pdf i see "COMMON LISP A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" by David S. Touretzky -- it seems long and detailed...does anyone know of this work, or would recommend it? or would recommend something else in the shape of a complex and in depth tutorial 10:11:56 isismelting: I tend to recommend GENTLE to newbies. 10:11:58 ...for someone who very much wants to understand CL deeply 10:12:40 Seasonned programmers can start with PCL, and some even with SICP. 10:12:44 matimago: the one saying "compiler construction system"? 10:13:30 Gentle is pretty great as an intro to lisp. 10:13:46 isismelting: which are you referening to? 10:14:09 oh i'm sorry i understand what you said 10:14:25 thank you matimago & sykopomp 10:14:39 i will study this then 10:15:08 would you recommend anything else for newbies? 10:15:36 <_death> the Keene book (Object Oriented Programming in Common Lisp) is a good introduction to the Common Lisp Object System 10:15:39 newbies i think might mean not very committed though - i mean recommend for people who want to be very serious about programming 10:15:58 thank you _death, i will try to find it right now! :) 10:16:26 After GENTLE you could try SICP and PAIP. 10:16:52 oh i see - thank you 10:17:10 <_death> ANSI Common Lisp is another nice introduction, although you should also read Riesback's comments 10:17:37 <_death> more in-depth books are On Lisp and The Art of the Metaobject Protocol 10:18:02 minion: graham crackers? 10:18:03 graham crackers: http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/readings/graham/graham-notes.html 10:18:21 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:18:23 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 10:19:33 thank's everyone, what a helpful collection of people. (i always laugh at how far off my original question is from what i mean to ask - thank's for staying with me hehe) 10:24:39 _death: So, built-in classes are implemented in a special, non-extensible way. Is that what you mean by fixnum not being portable? 10:25:00 -!- isismelting [n=jo@ip72-197-229-240.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 10:25:16 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:25:24 <_death> psyllo: no. the Standard specifies several instances of built-in-class, and fixnum is not one of them. 10:26:27 -!- jero [n=jer@salle008.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 10:26:38 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:26:59 _death: So, while I just attempted to subclass FIXNUM and it didn't work, it should according to the standard. 10:27:11 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:28:00 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:28:04 <_death> psyllo: no. built-in-classes shouldn't be subclassed by the user. and even if the standard allowed such subclassing, you don't have any guarantee that there exists a fixnum class to subclass. 10:28:10 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 10:28:40 _death: What I mean was in the case of fixnum I should be able to subclass it because it should be a built-in-class. 10:28:53 <_death> re-read what I said. 10:29:10 Correction, should be a STANDARD-CLASS. 10:29:36 <_death> I don't understand your correction. 10:30:28 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:32:11 _death: FIXNUM should be a STANDARD-CLASS and therefore able to be subclassed but in SBCL FIXNUM is a BUILT-IN-CLASS and therefore not able to be subclassed. It's not portable because it's not adhering to the standard. 10:32:39 <_death> psyllo: why do you think that "FIXNUM should be a STANDARD-CLASS" 10:33:49 wow, gentle introduciton to common lisp is really great 10:33:52 thanks for that linkage 10:33:52 _death: Because if it's not a BUILT-IN-CLASS then what is it? 10:34:04 <_death> psyllo: just a type 10:34:24 _death: Ok. Just like CLHS says. 10:34:29 <_death> right 10:35:48 -!- Spaija [n=Spaija@nat/cisco/x-c06d71ac7ae95bbb] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:39:25 Why are FIXNUM and BIGNUM only types while their subtypes are classes? CLHS states "The types fixnum and bignum form an exhaustive partition of type integer." Is that my clue? 10:39:48 <_death> their subtypes aren't classes 10:40:02 *Supertypes 10:42:20 I'm in over my head at this point. I won't let my curiosity get the best of me. 10:42:30 <_death> I don't know. I can think of some prima facie plausible reasons, but it'd be better to search c.l.c. and the CLHS discussions. 10:42:49 <_death> c.l.l. that is 10:46:39 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:51 I'm putting together a list of good free and non-free books and references. It's not definitive it's just the good ones. I'm thinking a lot of you have a similar list. If so would you care to share? 10:49:07 Regarding Lisp and Common Lisp. 10:49:45 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:49:58 Any opinions on "Common LISP. The Language. Second Edition" by Guy Steele? 10:50:52 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:51:31 <_death> that is a good book - it is the precursor to the standard as we know it, and it provides some rationale and historical explanations 10:51:49 <_death> but some things have changed a bit 10:51:53 doesn't it have a good chapter on loop, too? 10:52:51 yeah, it does :) 10:53:28 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:43 -!- azanar [n=azanar@dsl231-050-036.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [] 10:58:05 tim [n=tim@p4FD2BD03.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:18 -!- tim is now known as tst__ 11:01:34 <_death> H4ns: it also has Waters's writings on XP and SERIES 11:02:01 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:02:10 <_death> which I plan to read more thoroughly at some point in the future 11:09:24 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:03 reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 11:16:41 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@89.136.176.182] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:18:04 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 11:22:23 ntoll [n=ntoll@87.236.135.147] has joined #lisp 11:23:54 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:25:22 -!- foobar__ is now known as prip_ 11:26:09 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:27:52 bbe [n=bbe@221.226.141.63] has joined #lisp 11:27:57 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:28:24 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:28:34 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 11:31:44 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:39:20 -!- psyllo [n=psyllo@216-160-225-38.slkc.qwest.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.2.1"] 11:43:33 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 11:44:52 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-20.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:49:52 PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:49:54 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:53:22 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:56:03 cmatei [n=cmatei@89.136.176.182] has joined #lisp 12:00:31 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:01:06 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 12:01:50 -!- lisabo [n=lisabo@p4FD3F62B.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 12:18:35 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:18:38 KalifG [n=user@166.128.135.13] has joined #lisp 12:21:41 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:25:14 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.135.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:26:43 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 12:27:39 KalifG [n=user@166.128.135.13] has joined #lisp 12:38:17 -!- hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 12:38:38 hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 12:38:38 -!- hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:43:14 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:44 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 12:51:56 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483FD6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:01 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [] 12:55:59 -!- MrSpec is now known as Spec[afk] 12:56:31 iceman_ [n=iceman@121.223.198.16] has joined #lisp 12:57:16 -!- iceman_ [n=iceman@121.223.198.16] has quit [Client Quit] 12:59:48 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:00:26 iceman_ [n=iceman@121.223.198.16] has joined #lisp 13:01:02 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:45 Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 13:02:25 -!- KalifG [n=user@166.128.135.13] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:03:51 LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:10:05 sweemeng [n=sweemeng@108.94.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 13:12:01 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:12:56 is there a way to have keywords in lists, similar to when I call a function. I want to make a list like (:product "car" :make "GM") or just switch the order (:make "GM" :product "car") and a function written to handle that list should not get confused. If there is any better way, please let me know. 13:13:33 -!- sweemeng [n=sweemeng@108.94.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Client Quit] 13:13:37 wasn't that a plist or alist? I don't remember exactly 13:13:40 <_death> plist 13:14:15 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:14:21 sweemeng [n=sweemeng@108.94.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 13:14:27 <_death> clhs getf 13:14:27 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_getf.htm 13:16:44 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 13:17:09 -!- tst__ [n=tim@p4FD2BD03.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 13:17:18 -!- iceman_ [n=iceman@121.223.198.16] has quit ["I am Iceman, Linux hero of time!"] 13:22:11 I'm going to test swig cffi generation. Got a few nice ideas :-) (Tokyo Cabinet/Tyrant/Dystopia - I swear this guy had interesting naming scheme) 13:25:20 <_death> test it on what? Qt? 13:26:32 _death: That later 13:29:46 Tokyo* stuff is quite interesting in itself - a high performance database + networked/clustered version + full-text search engine on top 13:30:32 Bootvis [n=brj@g37065.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 13:31:22 all of this in ANSI C + POSIX 13:31:32 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 13:33:05 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:33:17 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:04 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 13:36:21 photon: what about (list :product "car" :make "GM") ? 13:36:49 -!- toddoon [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:37:21 toddoon [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:02 photon: otherwise, have a look at defstruct. (defstruct (item (:type list)) product make) (values (make-item :product "car" :make "GM") (make-item :make "GM" :product "car")) 13:40:49 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B483.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:36 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-47-203.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:09 hnr [n=henry@62.49.66.13] has joined #lisp 13:44:25 do clbuild need to run as root? 13:44:31 during install 13:45:25 it may; it needn't. 13:46:18 i can't seems to use some package i installed 13:46:29 you recompile sbcl? 13:47:15 you do not need to recompile SBCL to use a CL library. 13:47:39 hmmm 13:47:49 wonder why i can't use hunchentoot..... 13:48:22 here's how i do it, tell me if i do something wrong 13:48:35 ./clbuild install hunchentoot 13:48:39 does clbuild pull all of hunchentoot-1.0.0's dependencies correctly yet? 13:48:40 install all the dependency 13:48:55 it should, i just let it finish 13:49:31 let skip the asdf part 13:49:34 what i do now is 13:50:24 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:51:15 (defpackage :demoserv2 (:use :hunchentoot :cl-who :cl)) 13:51:17 but it fail 13:51:38 packages are not modules 13:51:42 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:57 enlighten me please 13:51:59 try (require 'hunchentoot) before that 13:52:20 silly me 13:52:24 let me try again 13:52:34 *sweemeng* lisp newbie 13:52:50 if you use ASDF you can have it load your dependencies by your .asd 13:53:10 ok 13:53:16 don't quite get it 13:53:37 got it 13:53:55 well, if you have some CL code somewhere, you must first load before using it 13:54:00 *ayrnieu* likes (defmacro avec (system) (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op ',system)) for REPL use. 13:54:11 defpackage does not load anytihng, it just creates a package 13:54:19 got it 13:54:23 something like import 13:54:26 or include 13:55:11 correct? 13:55:34 load your dependencies with ASDF. 13:55:37 if the lisp you are using comes with asdf, then it most probably also is hooked into require, so you can just do (require :cl-who) etc 13:55:51 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1EA67.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:02 and even more so if you are using sbcl :) 13:56:02 funny when i load cl-who 13:56:06 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1E4DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:34 (require 'cl-who) 13:56:39 it give an error 13:56:47 don't know how to require cl-who 13:56:49 idea? 13:56:49 ayrnieu: i use require instead of asdf:operate for REPL use, actually 13:57:05 <_death> sweemeng: did you install it 13:57:09 sweemeng: well, it means asdf is not hooked into require mechanism... 13:57:11 sweemeng, please consider reading the errors you get, and describing them. "I get an error" leaves us guessing. 13:57:23 wait ehh 13:57:28 this gonna tough 13:57:40 sweemeng: does (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :cl-who) 13:57:41 because it is on a computer beside me 13:57:41 jdz - avec works also on systems that don't hook into require. 13:57:42 work? 13:57:46 wait 13:58:07 ayrnieu: well, as you and me said, it's for REPL use 13:58:20 for real systems you put dependencies into .asd file anayway 13:58:38 <_death> with slime you can also ,l 13:58:58 error 13:59:02 quote 13:59:18 component "cl-who" not found 13:59:36 [condition of type asdf:missing-component] 13:59:44 etc 13:59:49 sweemeng: please use whole sentences, not individual words. please use the computer that you run the lisp on to chat. please use http://paste.lisp.org/lisp/new 13:59:54 sweemeng: thank you. 13:59:55 sweemeng - that pretty clearly says that ASDF has failed to find cl-who. Maybe you don't have it? Maybe you don't have it where asdf can find it? 13:59:57 yes 14:00:10 H4ns will do 14:00:23 let me make sure everything working first 14:00:35 tim [n=tim@p4FD2BD03.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:43 -!- tim is now known as tst__ 14:01:34 -!- Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has quit [] 14:01:53 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:02:10 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087DE58.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:14 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:03:38 fixed 14:03:50 *sweemeng* learn to make sure everything is done first 14:07:36 -!- Spec[afk] is now known as mrSpec 14:08:00 btw thanks for all the help _death jdz ayrnieu h4ns 14:09:42 matimago: thanks for your suggestions :) 14:14:44 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has joined #lisp 14:15:39 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:10 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:23:26 envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:25:09 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [] 14:26:10 how can I pass a variable by reference to a function? like: (defparameter *x* 0) (defun foo (x) (setf x (1+ x))) (foo *x*) ; *x* should contain 1 now. 14:26:20 KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:27:14 (defparameter *x* (cons 0 nil)) (defun foo (x) (incf (car x))) (foo *x*) 14:27:46 elurin [n=user@88.231.223.140] has joined #lisp 14:28:24 stassats`: wouldn't (list 0) look nicer and do the same? 14:29:18 do the same --- yes, nicer --- not sure 14:29:19 ignas, list indicates it's meant to be used as a list. which it isnt. 14:29:45 aren't parameters supposed to be readonly btw? 14:29:58 photon, what you want is a setf-macro. 14:29:59 another option is to make structure POINTER 14:30:04 tic: multiparadigm language ;) but in general - yeah 14:33:11 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-165-248.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:35:07 g'day 14:35:15 thanks 14:35:16 good day 14:35:28 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:35:51 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:37:17 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483FD6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:38:56 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:45:07 photon: search cll for locative and for deref ; but it is better to write (setf *x* (compute-a-new-value *x*)) 14:45:25 (it's more "functional") 14:50:54 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:51:16 -!- acieroid [n=quentin@163.22.83-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:51:37 acieroid [n=quentin@15.21.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:02 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:05 okay :) 14:55:29 -!- sweemeng [n=sweemeng@108.94.50.60.cbj05-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:56:35 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:03:13 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:05:52 -!- acieroid [n=quentin@15.21.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:07:48 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:13:01 acieroid [n=quentin@41.22.83-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:06 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 15:14:22 willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:16:08 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:12 nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:27 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-072-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:01 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:28 araujo_ [n=araujo@190.38.50.207] has joined #lisp 15:24:39 -!- araujo_ [n=araujo@190.38.50.207] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 15:26:03 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:29:17 Kenjin [n=Kenjin@242-177.dial.nortenet.pt] has joined #lisp 15:29:23 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:02 -!- bbe [n=bbe@221.226.141.63] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:32:43 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:35:14 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:38:27 -!- dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-44-35.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:38:51 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:39:00 -!- azuk` [i=azure@s2.org] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:40:19 fasta [n=a@217.109.160.5] has joined #lisp 15:40:23 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:40:59 azuk [i=azure@s2.org] has joined #lisp 15:42:51 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:46:36 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 15:49:12 ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 15:51:25 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:53:20 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:57 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:27 -!- jsoft_ [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:59:06 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 15:59:23 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:59:43 milanj [n=milan@91.150.101.64] has joined #lisp 15:59:50 chrisliaw [n=chris@115.133.222.242] has joined #lisp 16:02:24 -!- chrisliaw [n=chris@115.133.222.242] has quit [Client Quit] 16:06:35 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:09:34 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 16:11:23 -!- reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:16:39 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:17:53 -!- Soulman__ is now known as Soulman 16:17:55 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:18:20 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:00 -!- Sukoshi`` [n=MuneNoKa@par0978.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:26:36 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:41 clhs ~? 16:27:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cgf.htm 16:27:42 nyef, memo from tcr: As you were working, or at least thinking, about unwinding in SBCL, I thought you may be interested in http://www.nongnu.org/libunwind/ 16:30:03 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:16 -!- jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:30:25 nyef: I've a patch to introduce some misalignment on large allocs. Apart from gc_alloc_large (obviously) and copy_large[_unboxed]_object, can you think of anything else that'd have to be modified? 16:30:51 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:31:25 pkhuong: Nothing springs immediately to mind, but that's probably from not knowing much about the specific details of large object storage. 16:32:06 _introduce_? 16:32:47 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-42.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:33:45 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:06 I think this is the first time I've used ~@?. 16:35:14 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:35:27 -!- Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:38:44 Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 16:39:14 dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:14 dcrawford_ [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:32 Xof: yes, just enough ;) Our large objects are always aligned on a page, which increases the odds that we'll be working on elements that hash to the same cache line. 16:42:00 is there already an easy way to setf a bunch of variables by destructuring a list? 16:42:05 -!- dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:42:09 -!- dcrawford_ is now known as dcrawford 16:42:47 vostibackle: Yes, if it's a flat list (no real structure). 16:42:58 nyef: yeah, it is 16:43:02 pkhuong: hm, sneaky 16:43:03 Intel and AMD suggest to insert misalignment by ~cache-line-sized increments, so that data has the same alignment wrt cache lines. 16:43:29 I just want the equivalent of a,b=[1,2] really 16:44:21 vostibackle: is that (1 2) list a return value? If so, you might want to use multiple return values instead. 16:44:30 (setf (values a b) (values 1 2)) 16:44:39 vostibackle: There are a few ways to go about it. Most of them involve spreading the list into multiple values via VALUES-LIST and then doing something with that, such as MULTIPLE-VALUE-SETQ or using a VALUES place with SETF. 16:44:50 stassats, pkhuong, nyef: thanks, perfect 16:45:51 -!- Thumper_ [n=Thumper@about/essy/coffeeAddict/Thumper] has left #lisp 16:46:45 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:46:50 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 16:47:23 r1nu-_ [n=debian~@ppp-94-68-59-0.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:48:04 -!- r1nu- [n=debian~@ppp-94-68-29-91.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:48:07 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:48:18 Greetings! 16:48:26 Just realised something potentially more important: L1 caches are exclusive on, e.g., amd K10. Having our constant vector tacked on just before the code isn't good. 16:49:14 Yeah, but the relocation cost if you move it can be nasty. 16:49:23 Wait, how large is the cache line? 16:49:34 nyef: only on the order of 64 byte. 16:49:38 'cause you also have your function headers. 16:49:57 nyef: afaik 64/128 bytes usually 16:50:23 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 16:50:31 *nyef* shakes his head. 16:50:52 Sorting that out will be fun. 16:51:39 nyef: add padding in XEP-ALLOCATE-FRAME? 16:52:03 Mmm... So the function header ends on the end of a cache line? Might work. 16:52:20 Probably need to get the GC in on things, though. 16:52:55 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:53:43 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-180.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:56:37 manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:53 pkhuong: it seems that aligning x86 code on 16 byte boundary is indeed good 16:57:13 especially with 8 byte aligned loops 16:58:28 cl-bench is about 5% faster on the whole 16:59:15 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:59:52 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:00:58 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:01:35 -!- Bootvis [n=brj@g37065.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:03:09 -!- nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:05:35 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:05:36 -!- sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:06:00 OK, that's enough work for one day. 17:06:06 (good evening everyone) 17:06:25 hello beach 17:06:43 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:06:51 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 17:07:04 mega1: are code-objects' size always rounded up to 16 bytes multiples? 17:07:10 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:07:27 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:08:12 pkhuong: not quite, the start of the code is put on 16 bytes multiples 17:08:30 -!- toddoon [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:09:27 That's not too useful if you can't guarantee that the code object will be allocated on a 16 byte boundary too. We have 8 bytes by default, but since code goes on its own page, we can get 16 bytes (or more, e.g. 32) by padding all code objects. 17:10:43 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 17:10:59 deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has joined #lisp 17:11:12 pkhuong: I changed allocate_code_object and copy_code_object to put align code+nheader_words on 16 bytes multiples 17:11:33 How do I find out if a symbol such as 'integer denotes a type-specifier? (Not looking for typep, but type-specifier-p) 17:12:04 mega1: can you try 32 bytes? 17:12:15 deego: The first approach that comes to mind is that typep probably signals if passed something that isn't a type specifier... 17:12:17 deego: there's no portable way 17:12:19 pkhuong: yes 17:12:21 Specifically, I want to make a macro define-structure which prevents calling defstruct if the same defstruct was already called.. thus making code reloadable. 17:12:30 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:12:47 fboundp the constructor? 17:13:17 pkhuong: but most of the improvement came from 8 byte aligning the loops, 16 byte aligned loops were slower, I don't know why 17:13:17 deego: is it really a bug to redefine it to be the same thing? 17:13:23 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:30 pkhuong: In sbcl, it seems like it 17:13:40 deego: and what makes you say that? 17:14:29 pkhuong: It even happens with defconstants.. Try (defconstant a (list 1 2 3)) and load it twice 17:14:50 deego: read the spec. It's a different issue. 17:15:44 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 17:15:52 mega1: probably cache/decoding speed effects. We could try using multibyte NOPs... 17:16:16 pkhuong: yes, that will interesting 17:16:18 Well, duplicate lodaing of the same defstruct gives me that error. 17:16:47 I find that a bit hard to believe. can you please lisppaste a log? 17:16:52 deego: i seem to remember some fixes just recently... try the latest sbcl 17:17:04 attempt to redefine the STRUCTURE-OBJECT class FOO 17:17:15 attila_lendvai: ok, I will recheck out, thanks 17:17:22 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 17:18:08 -!- fasta [n=a@217.109.160.5] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:19:00 deego: when I ask for a log, I mean something that will allow people to actually find out what you're doing, not just a useless bit of the error message. so at the very least your source and the repl output that shows you loading it 17:19:44 (I know this isn't something that has been broken forever, and only recently fixed: complaining about reloading an identical structure definition would've been ridiculous even by sbcl's standards) 17:20:12 deego: also note that such bugs are most of the time package problems, reusing the same symbol unintentionally... 17:20:15 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@87.236.135.147] has quit [] 17:20:31 I see 17:22:22 Oh, jsnell , sorry I missed your log-request earlier. Will paste on web when I reproduce the problem. 17:24:17 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:24:41 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:28:24 -!- envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:29:20 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 17:29:30 -!- hnr [n=henry@62.49.66.13] has quit [] 17:31:23 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:33:40 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 17:35:02 I still get the same problem with the latest checked out sbcl. ITM, I will use this hack: I will (typep 1 'myobject), and if there's an error, I know that myobject is not previously defined. 17:36:36 you haven't actually told anyone what your problem is nor how you get it 17:36:45 so the M might be quite a long time 17:37:07 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:37:11 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:37:56 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:37:56 manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:38 it certainly isn't just by "duplicate loading of the same defstruct"; there is something else going on 17:39:07 if I put my telepathic debugging hat on, I'd guess something like: (defclass foo () ()) (defstruct foo x) 17:39:26 X_Serpent_X [n=kvirc@ool-457963cf.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:49 psyllo [n=psyllo@216-160-225-38.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:07 I'd like to evaluate a form but only let it run for a certain amount of time. If it times out I'd like to know. What's the best way to do this? 17:40:28 Some sort of portable asynchronous timer or signal/alarm or something... 17:40:42 minion: trivial-timeout 17:40:42 trivial-timeout: The end of the page was reached before a definition was found in http://www.cliki.net/trivial-timeout 17:41:01 I apologize. I will try to paste a log next time. 17:41:05 That's a rather... bare-bones description. 17:41:17 -!- holycow [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:41:43 Cowmoo` [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:20 it should have timed out 17:45:09 -!- r1nu-_ [n=debian~@ppp-94-68-59-0.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["*.*"] 17:45:17 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:02 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 17:46:07 X_Serpent_X: fyi, there's a with-timeout in elisp 17:46:14 which might give you ideas 17:47:02 There's nothing in the base common-lisp that is portable and could help me out? 17:47:28 -!- binghe [n=binghe@60.12.227.4] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:47:35 use trivial-timeout 17:48:38 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@d54C2899A.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:49:45 stassats: It would be a lot better if I didn't need an external package. That's why I'm asking about something in basic common-lisp 17:50:06 copy code from trivial-timeout into your package 17:50:45 Ugh, let me check the license. 17:51:08 there is nothing in basic common lisp, because timeouts do not exist in basic common lisp 17:51:11 -!- FufieToo [n=poff@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:51:26 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@d54C2899A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 17:53:53 I figured maybe something at a lower level did exist in common lisp though. I guess not. Even trivial-timeout has implementation-specific sections. 17:53:55 Thanks. 17:54:28 <_death> the point of trivial-* systems is usually to provide a portable layer 17:54:50 did exist or didn't, it doesn't exist now 17:56:37 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:56:51 X_Serpent_X: It's LLGPL'd. Is that a problem? What is wrong with an external package? 17:57:04 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["leaving"] 17:58:14 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:58:22 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 17:58:38 psyllo: Yes, I saw the license; No, it's not a problem. The issue with an external package is that I'm to provide a single lisp file for homework, so it can't depend on external files. There's no problem with me copying in the code since the point of the homework has nothing to do with timeouts. 17:59:30 why do you need that for the homework? 18:00:42 stassats: We are doing exponential search-space expansion and some of the problems are infeasible to solve (4 billion nodes or higher). Instead of sitting around and killing my process, I'd like it to time out after a few minutes and print "infeasible". It makes the report nice and clean and doesn't require me to manually edit things. 18:00:54 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:01:29 are you supposed to run your homework on some particular lisp implementation? 18:01:50 stassats: The professor will be using lisp works I believe; I'm using sbcl. 18:03:04 so, include code for only this two implementations 18:03:39 X_Serpent_X: you can simply add a check for a timeout in your search function. 18:04:03 <_death> or maybe limit the size of the problem 18:05:23 _death: The size of the problem is given by the prof - the point was to show us that stupid search algorithms take forever, where as our A* implementation will not have any trouble. 18:05:31 stassats: that's what I'm doing. 18:05:41 photon_ [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 18:06:49 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:07:21 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 18:10:03 jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:55 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:14:03 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:16:37 -!- X_Serpent_X [n=kvirc@ool-457963cf.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 18:18:41 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 18:19:21 -!- milanj [n=milan@91.150.101.64] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:20:34 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:21:07 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 18:21:47 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 18:22:45 splittist [n=dmurray@120-254.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:22:47 antgreen1 [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:51 morning 18:25:22 is there a lisp that would work well on embedded systems? ARM processors? 18:25:33 clisp 18:26:29 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:26:41 if you mean a common lisp, I'm leaning toward an answer of "no", but it depends on what you want to do and how big of a system you mean (at this point, "embedded system" encompasses several orders of magnitude) 18:27:27 "And this is the new embedded CRAY system..." 18:28:16 "... with sufficient memory it might run Android..." 18:29:25 ecraven: there are scheme compilers that can target pic microcontrollers. in general you'll have more luck with scheme than cl for embedded stuff 18:30:16 -!- psyllo [n=psyllo@216-160-225-38.slkc.qwest.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.2.1"] 18:31:46 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:20 -!- younder [n=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has left #lisp 18:34:35 ecraven - I used ECL on my Zaurus, a tiny ARM system that ran OpenBSD. Linux Zauri also run clisp. For 'more embedded' systems, yeah: scheme. Hedgehog Lisp. 18:38:15 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:42:10 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:04 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:13 ayrnieu: oh hey, you're the digged my sbcl port a few days ago 18:45:22 er, redditted 18:45:46 joshe: SBCL port? 18:46:45 joshe - yeah! Thanks for it. I tried to get threads working for a few days, writing a replacement for TLD_AUTO_ALLOC etc., but not having a clue hurt my efforts. 18:46:52 nyef: openbsd ports framework for building sbcl 18:46:56 Ah. 18:47:36 hello. sorry for asking about format again.... how do i limit width of a string? i mean like in ~width,decimals,exp-decimals,scale,overflowchar,padchar,expcharE but for strings (~mincol,colinc.minpad,padcharA only controls minimum width). can someone point me into the right direction/url/man/clhs-chapter? 18:47:38 ayrnieu: I was working on porting ccl recently, and I think threads might end up being quite a bit of work 18:48:01 joshe - quite a bit of work with ccl also? 18:48:19 and if sbcl needs to use sigaltstack then it won't be able to use libpthread at all, it'll have to wait for rthreads 18:49:05 mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075691pcs.unl.edu] has joined #lisp 18:50:25 so far the ccl port has been a lot easier than I thought 18:51:50 anyway, if you have amd64 openbsd systems then I have some patches you can test if you feel like, I was just about to update them for 1.0.26 and repost to sbcl-devel again 18:53:16 ah, the only OpenBSD system I have right now is a 32-bit one running in vmware. 18:56:07 ah, ok 18:56:58 *ayrnieu* finally got fed up with OSX's window management. 18:57:11 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:23 it's terrible, isn't it? :) 18:58:15 no stumpwm in os x :( 18:58:19 nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 18:58:28 D: 18:59:09 why do you need window management, just make Emacs fullscreen. :) 18:59:09 I've been meaning to try stumpwm, I'm getting kind of tired of dwm 18:59:45 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-137-81.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:59:45 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-6472d35d30ed98d7] has joined #lisp 19:00:11 sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:13 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 19:00:16 I like osx's WM. :) 19:00:19 I've occasionally thought about rewriting nyefwm in SBCL, but it just doesn't seem worth the trouble. 19:01:05 ... Oh, I didn't call it nyefwm, did I? Either way, probably not worth the trouble. 19:01:25 what's it written in now, and do you still use it? 19:01:31 C, and no. 19:01:43 what WM do you use instead? 19:01:59 It got kindof buggy when I started adding advanced features like M-Tab to switch windows. 19:02:01 rey_ [i=pdewacht@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 19:02:07 Right now? Whatever came with xfce4. 19:02:10 tail -1 ~/.stumpwm : (loop for n upto 9 do (define-key *root-map* (kbd (format nil "M-~A" n)) (format nil "select-window-by-number ~A" n))) 19:04:33 i apologize - i did not see the wood for the trees again - subseq does what i need for sure ... sorry 19:06:28 trebor - you don't have to apologize three times for asking a question. It wasn't very stupid. 19:09:23 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:11:20 *trebor_dki* 's aim was to assure you, that he does not just ask question without looking for the answer himself (before & after) 19:11:43 josemanuel [n=josemanu@29.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:12:23 clhs eval-when 19:12:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_eval_w.htm 19:12:46 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:14:13 -!- mokogobo [n=mokogobo@pcp075691pcs.unl.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:20:00 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has quit [" Unicode should totally start doing html tags."] 19:22:39 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:07 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:32:08 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:33 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 19:38:35 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.209.161] has joined #lisp 19:41:09 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:16 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:45:42 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:45:58 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:14 -!- dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit ["Be back later"] 19:54:47 avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:54 jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:58:10 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-111-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:58:46 hi, drewc about? 20:01:06 Sirisian|Work [n=Sirisian@141.218.136.207] has joined #lisp 20:01:10 -!- Sirisian|Work [n=Sirisian@141.218.136.207] has left #lisp 20:03:28 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d8396c.adsl.enternet.hu] has left #lisp 20:06:01 hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:24 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:17 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:12:25 kidd [n=user@163.Red-88-9-114.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:49 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:13:52 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@mue-88-130-126-202.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:33 So is anyone working on anything that isn't a web framework? 20:22:01 I've spent 45 minutes trying to figure out how to record the output of a program on my linux machine to a wave file, if that counts 20:22:06 (er, no) 20:22:55 hefner - did you figure it out? 20:22:59 Of course it counts! My next ruse was to bemoan the lack of unicycling discussions... 20:23:19 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:23:33 ayrnieu: no, now I'm sidetracked fantasizing about how I'd like to boil the alsa developers in hot oil and crew on their deep-fried eyeballs 20:23:59 crew? chew. 20:24:15 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 20:24:30 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:33 hefner - I remember using an alsa command for it, yes. 20:24:50 But it's Unix! Surely you can just pipe the program to an ordinary file, rather than a sound device...! 20:25:12 this help? http://www.swview.org/node/213 20:25:25 http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Record_from_pcm 20:26:02 ayrnieu: command for boiling alsa developers? 20:26:15 stassats - it's undocumented. 20:26:40 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 20:26:59 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-129-29.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:26:59 hefner: luckily, the Next Great Audio Framework For Linux will fix everything, and be the bestest thing evar, unlike the last 20, which all sucked! 20:27:33 the amixer thing doesn't work for me, but maybe joga's suggestion will. 20:27:38 and here comes open source fairy, who will write it 20:29:12 stassats`: http://www.pulseaudio.org/ 20:29:19 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:29:31 it's been written already, the not sucking part is still under development, though. 20:29:31 foom: thanks, but no thanks 20:29:52 I regularly SIGKILL that one 20:30:02 alsa is not bad...I guess if all effort that is put into other audio frameworks was put to alsa it would be kick-ass 20:30:07 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:30:41 *ayrnieu* still bitter about not being able to use editres with gtk apps. 20:31:11 -!- hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 20:33:36 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@141.157.231.169] has joined #lisp 20:34:02 joga: this works, thanks for the link. 20:37:19 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 20:37:19 -!- toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-63-237.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:39:56 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.209.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:40:55 pulseaudio might indeed be the suckiest linux audio system so far 20:40:57 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 20:41:56 jsnell, why's that? 20:41:57 sure, it can let you control volume on a per-application level or use a network sound device, but what good does that do when it can't make any noise come out from my headphones 20:42:57 Another person at this point might be tempted to say something about the OSX WM sucking, but at least the audio works. Not me, though. 20:44:40 oh, yeah, OS X would be the brilliant operating system that resets the headphone volume to "eardrum-bursting" on every reboot 20:45:06 on second thought there's something to be said for pulseaudio 20:45:26 and its marvellous MIDI driver compatibility -- if you have a 10.4 driver in some obscure library directory on a 10.5 system, as is left over from the upgrade process, MIDI stops working 20:45:28 good going there 20:45:43 even if the driver is for hardware that you have never owned 20:46:38 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:29 hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:53 user_ [n=user@p54926560.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:04 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-88-217-60-251.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:19 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:49:29 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:49:51 Well, there you are - you have unreasonable expectations. You can't expect something as complex as an audio subsystem to work if you actually try to use it! 20:49:55 -!- spec[afk] is now known as mrSpec 20:51:30 let alone an audio woofer-system :P 20:51:33 heh, i'll try that with our customer... 20:52:02 and 5.1, forget it, hasn't worked since MacOS 5.1 :P 20:52:18 yonkeltron [n=user@unaffiliated/yonkeltron] has joined #lisp 20:52:37 can someone provide an example of a highly-scaled website written in lisp? 20:53:00 I know of some with backends in lisp 20:53:26 example? 20:53:31 orbitz 20:53:52 (note, see my ip info ...) 20:54:34 *splittist* thought immediately of reptilian websites 20:54:48 toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-63-237.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:52 museum of science? 20:54:52 yeah, orbitz is a good example of highly scaled... though not all that lispy. 20:54:54 ah. ita. 20:54:59 why not so lispy? 20:55:09 it works 20:55:16 haha 20:56:06 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host209-181-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 20:57:47 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.245.219] has joined #lisp 20:58:49 r1nu- [n=debian~@ppp-94-67-180-66.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:58:56 yonkeltron: QPX is simply not the 'lispy-est' piece of code. I'm not sure how much more i can say unfortunately, as i can't remember how much is public information :( 20:59:13 gotcha. 20:59:54 Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-108-191.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:59:59 it's not interpreted you mean? :) 21:00:06 hah! 21:00:08 lispy-styleness aside, it's still compiled with a CL compiler 21:00:08 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@29.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 21:00:18 there was a talk about it at eclm06 21:01:23 dcrawford: indeed, and i suppose there is really no such thing as lispy, especially when we are talking about CL code. but you know what i mean :) 21:02:08 -!- user_ [n=user@p54926560.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:03:45 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.248.22] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:03:57 Ya learn something new every day. The denominator argument to division is optional and if not given the reciprocal of the numerator is returned. 21:04:33 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:04:43 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 21:05:30 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 21:05:34 While I appreciate the utility of that, I'm not sure I like the semantics. When I read (/ 2.0), 0.5 is not an intuitive result. 21:05:42 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-92.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:05:55 tmh: what about (- 1)? 21:06:19 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:41 pkhuong: (- 1) is intuitive. I recognize the symmetry and consistency, but division without a numerator is not intuitive to me. 21:07:51 s/numerator/denominator/ 21:08:09 tmh: intuitive? Like the nipple, you mean? 21:09:16 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:10:02 Cowmoo`` [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:17 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.209.161] has joined #lisp 21:10:50 pkhuong: no, intuitive, like -1. 21:13:18 pkhuong - intuitive, like it took thousands of years of development for people to take it for granted instead of viewing the way people today view economics. 21:14:10 -!- Cowmoo` [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:14:17 is not really division though, I think 21:14:23 (- 1) ;; this is nonsense. What do you expect it to return? See me after class. 21:14:39 because we can do things like (/ 1 2 3 4) 21:16:11 quick (and no cheating with the repl): what is (+)? what about (-)? why? 21:16:27 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:16:48 vostibackle: what's that then? multiplication? 21:16:49 I don't know what (-) is; (+) should be the identity. Because it's useful and makes sense.. 21:16:50 pkhuong: I've recently learned that the nipple isn't an intuitive interface either. 21:17:01 0? additive identity 21:17:05 (-) should be the subtractive identity. :p 21:17:06 dlowe: that would have been my point afterward ;) 21:17:16 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:17:41 so what is (*) (without cheating)? 21:17:49 1? 21:17:49 1, of course 21:17:53 another identity. So is (list) 21:17:56 yes 21:17:56 -!- hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 21:18:33 (list) isn't the identity for list, though, is it? 21:18:58 it's analagously useful, whatever the proper term is. 21:19:08 what about (expt)? 21:19:17 (append (list) (list 1)) 21:19:41 I think we should fight about whether (expt) is 0 or 1 21:20:10 stassats - I didn't say that it was the appendative identity! 21:20:38 identity relative to which operations though, (list 1) (list) in this order do join to (list 1) 21:20:39 (append) => nil too 21:21:02 (-) takes at least one argument >_> 21:21:02 <_< 21:21:21 *sykopomp* misses the point. 21:21:58 - is the replative identity. 21:22:05 Krystof: seems like it should be 1 to me... why would it be zero? 21:25:39 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-108-191.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:26:23 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:38 -!- jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]"] 21:27:37 sugarshark [n=ole@p4FDAA426.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:27:55 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:31:14 ia [n=ia@89.169.189.230] has joined #lisp 21:33:00 -!- tst__ [n=tim@p4FD2BD03.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:34:30 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:59 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 21:36:21 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:59 oh, so audio under linux is _still_ broken. and to think that I was just starting to contemplate an escape from windows-land again 21:38:10 cmm: Not still. Again# 21:38:19 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:38:39 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B483.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:38:41 manic12_ [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:21 sebell [n=sctb@adsl-71-135-109-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:30 linux: the VM operating system! 21:40:38 21:40:41 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [] 21:40:49 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 21:41:12 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:43:12 Pegazus [n=awefawe@host125.201-253-177.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:43:34 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:10 hnr [n=henry@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust572.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:32 NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-196.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:47:36 twopoint718 [n=chris@adsl-75-50-88-160.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:22 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-253-84.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 21:49:39 Krystof_ [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:50:14 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:54:19 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 21:55:56 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:52 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:57:25 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:01:03 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:53 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 22:04:30 hello Fare 22:04:35 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:05:12 hi fe[nl]ix 22:05:14 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:15 how are you? 22:05:19 any news from iolib? 22:05:33 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-20.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:05:47 -!- sugarshark [n=ole@p4FDAA426.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["going"] 22:07:13 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:26 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:09:18 Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:01 -!- |Soulman| [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:10:41 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:15 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:24 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 22:13:02 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.209.161] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:14:37 -!- splittist [n=dmurray@120-254.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Night all y'all (comme d'habitude)"] 22:14:50 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:15:23 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:16:27 -!- avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:16:35 Has anyone bought Let Over Lambda? Can you read it online if you buy it, or is it dead-tree only? 22:17:18 I've bought it; the first four chapters are online, and it's expected that the others will be. So you sort of have the reverse of a pragprog situation. 22:17:21 Fare: I plan to resume work this weekend 22:17:47 ayrnieu: I was just wondering how instant the gratification was 22:18:08 Amazon Prime got mine to me the next day, so :-) 22:18:50 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 22:23:09 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:23:49 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 22:23:57 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B483.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:37 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:24:44 I can't help but feel that I'm doing something wrong. I started with bare access to stuff in octet arrays by way of accessors such as u16le@ (unsigned, 16-bit, little-endian). Then I thought "hey, how about a with-fields macro so I can just specify the names of the C struct members in with-fields, passing the struct type and storage buffer, and then refer to the fields by name, which led to field descriptions of (|rfdBase| u32le@ #x5 22:24:44 0). 22:24:54 And then I ran into bitfields. 22:25:17 (|gLevel| bitfield u16le@ #x58 (byte 2 8)). 22:26:15 -!- Cowmoo`` [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:26:37 And with-fields turns that into a (|gLevel| (bitfield u16le@ #x58 (byte 2 8))) symbol-macrolet binding... And bitfield itself is a macro that turns into (ldb (byte 2 8) (u16le@ #x58))... 22:27:17 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:27:18 And I can't help but feel that I screwed up somehow. 22:27:27 -!- yonkeltron [n=user@unaffiliated/yonkeltron] has left #lisp 22:27:34 http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/hacks/binary.lisp is my take on the problem 22:28:08 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:19 -!- Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:28:24 Of course, the other problem is that almost none of the easily-accessible structures makes sense by themselves, they need quite a bit of context. 22:28:53 -!- sebell [n=sctb@adsl-71-135-109-227.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 22:29:02 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:32:32 milanj [n=milan@77.46.251.126] has joined #lisp 22:33:08 runenes [n=runenes@77.18.64.96.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 22:33:49 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 22:34:08 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@mue-88-130-126-202.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:35:42 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.209.161] has joined #lisp 22:36:41 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 22:38:51 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 22:41:43 iceman_ [n=iceman@121.223.198.16] has joined #lisp 22:42:20 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.251.126] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:45:33 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:47:01 nyef: why do you think you screwed up? 22:47:52 I'm not sure, really. 22:47:59 At least partly because it's a giant hack. 22:48:37 And partly because it's not what I set out to do, it just sortof happened while I was trying to get other stuff done. 22:48:51 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.245.219] has quit [Operation timed out] 22:49:06 how would you do it better? 22:49:35 Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:49:42 I don't know that I would, really. 22:50:27 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.243.213] has joined #lisp 22:51:59 so why call it a failure? 22:52:06 sorry, a screw up 22:54:31 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-194-65.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:39 Soulman__ [n=kae@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:53 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:56:53 -!- KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:56:53 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:56:53 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:56:53 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has quit 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irc.freenode.net] 22:56:53 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:56:53 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:56:53 -!- Thas [n=weechat@97-113-44-93.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:56:53 -!- rodge [n=roderic@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:56:53 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:57:02 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:57:25 -!- vostibackle [n=vosti@cpe-24-28-81-28.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:57:56 _8david [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:58:01 nyef pasted "define-file-structure" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76385 22:58:14 cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-156-192.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:36 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:57 I really don't know. 23:01:36 pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 23:01:44 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:01:53 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:01:58 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@84.42.251.245] has joined #lisp 23:02:07 -!- koollman [n=samson_t@sd-9780.dedibox.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:02:11 koollman [n=samson_t@sd-9780.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 23:02:14 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:02:26 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:02:55 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:03:11 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.71.204] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:03:18 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.71.204] has joined #lisp 23:03:27 Actually, yes I do. I screwed up -because- it's a hackjob. 23:03:27 what you say of it sounds neat 23:03:28 unless it's all interpreted like binary-types 23:03:30 Pegazus_ [n=awefawe@host125.201-253-177.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:03:31 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 23:03:31 nyef: and even if you knew how to make it better, adding asserts for the holes, so that you can sleep well while using it, and a simple comment like ;; TODO could be improved by ... makes one relieved (if one is happy with the interface, that is, because that clutters the rest of the codebase) 23:03:31 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:33 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:03:34 an idealist programmer gets nowhere... 23:03:37 couldn't you just reuse the foreign struct interface? 23:03:39 comexk [n=comex@teklinks.org] has joined #lisp 23:03:40 foom: Doesn't give you endianness control. 23:03:43 ah, yes. 23:04:49 Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 KalifG [n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@ppp121-45-136-86.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 keithr [n=keithr@ip68-13-249-183.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 rodge [n=roderic@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 technik [i=lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined 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[n=user@bloc-18.isc.tamu.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:04:52 Oh, fun. 23:04:52 minion: Paste 76385? 23:04:52 crypto_ [n=z0d@artifact.hu] has joined #lisp 23:04:53 Oh well. http://paste.lisp.org/display/76385 is most of it and an example of use. 23:04:55 Paste number 76385: "define-file-structure" by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/76385 23:04:59 jrockway_ [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 23:04:59 Patzy_ [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:14 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:05:14 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-3.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:05:14 -!- rumbleca [n=rumble@174.0.46.123] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:05:14 -!- larstobi [n=larstobi@195.139.173.50] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:05:14 -!- ampleyfly [n=ampleyfl@mustang.lysator.liu.se] has 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[n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:12:27 hm, how do i set a buffer local connection in slime? found the slime-buffer-connection variable, but not quite sure how to best set it. slime-cycle-connections is supposed to set it according to the doc string, but it's commented out of the function. 23:12:41 runenes [n=runenes@77.18.4.146.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 23:13:00 -!- Soulman [n=kae@34.80-203-160.nextgentel.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:13:06 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-204-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [""That's our secret... we kill you with kindness. What's your secret?""] 23:13:20 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:14:04 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 23:14:19 konr [n=karkeej@201.82.139.214] has joined #lisp 23:15:52 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 23:16:44 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:16:51 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-194-65.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:18:22 haimez [n=chatzill@c-76-104-23-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:37 -!- Krystof_ [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:18:41 -!- crypto_ is now known as z0d 23:19:42 guys... I'm thinking about rewriting my website in lisp to make it more flexible and to make my skills sharper, but how viable is to use lisp in a website? which implementations are there, how fast are they and how cpu/ram consuming? what kind of environment do I need to run it? are there enough libraries? 23:20:01 -!- photon_ is now known as photon 23:20:15 everything is possible if you try hard enough... :) 23:21:10 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-156-192.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:21:39 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-204-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:54 there are enough libs, but finding them and integrating them is going to take more time in cl than in some other alternatives 23:21:59 -!- comex [n=comex@teklinks.org] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:22:23 but how heavy will the system be? will I need a powerful server? 23:22:31 memory consumption is going to start form 50 MB, but the rest is up to you, how much state you store 23:22:41 or make that 100 MB 23:22:58 -!- iceman_ [n=iceman@121.223.198.16] has quit ["I am Iceman, Linux hero of time!"] 23:23:03 cpu is again not an issue if you watch your abstractions 23:23:25 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:23:42 we very rarely optimize our codebase, and then the low-hanging fruits usually make it several times faster 23:23:51 -!- Pegazus [n=awefawe@host125.201-253-177.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:23:57 are you sure that it's just just 100MB? Dreamhost says that a blog requires 600MB 23:24:13 600MB for a blog?... 23:24:14 we run on sbcl, but ccl may be another alternative 23:24:28 konr - you're misreading something. 23:24:35 ccl runs lighter than SBCL. clisp runs even lighter, and that's what PG used for Viaweb. 23:24:37 i said that it starts form a 100 MB penalty, the rest is up to you 23:24:57 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:24:57 i'd ignore clisp though 23:25:24 maybe. It certainly doesn't get as much library love, and the code is slower, although it compiles much faster. 23:25:27 *attila_lendvai* just puts their latest project live 23:25:40 attila_lendvai: is there a link? 23:25:55 konr: The Tech Co-op provides an excellent lisp web hosting platform, if i might say so. 23:26:09 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:26:24 sykopomp: guarded by a login page... i'll set up a dev system in the following weeks 23:26:38 attila_lendvai: aw okay :) 23:26:57 oh, and it's all hungarian, about some gov bullshit... so... :) 23:27:26 heh 23:27:32 slyrus: thanks for pointing out the design trick of dispatching graph methods on both graph and arc/vertex objects 23:28:06 hmmm 23:28:17 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:28:17 They offer "unmetered bandwidth"... I'm pretty scared of that 23:28:19 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:28:43 konr: usually means they gonna shut down your site once you generate "too much activity" 23:28:54 konr - metered bandwidth would charge you continuously for bandwidth usu. 23:29:12 at some rate, as with electricity. 23:29:15 photon: In practice, I think it means you'll never get enough throughput to approach your bandwidth cap 23:29:21 photon: exactly... I'm using 1TB/month at the moment 23:29:23 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:31:09 Cowmoo` [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:23 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:32:09 -!- NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-196.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:32:10 but how are you able to make such statements like "memory consumption is at ... and above MB". doesn't this highly depend on a) whether the lisp implementation interprets bytecode, b) compiles it to native machine code, c) the compiler generating CPU cycle efficient and/or memory usage efficient code? so it boils down to which implementation you use. I'd say there is a some difference between using sbcl and some of the commercial implementation. correc 23:32:10 t me if I'm wrong though 23:32:49 azanar [n=azanar@edm1a.mavericklabel.com] has joined #lisp 23:33:13 for example, some code run in SBCL took 50 MB of memory as a standalone. the same code run in ECL took about 6 MB. 23:33:25 (again, as a compiled version) 23:33:56 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:34:27 the ecl-binary can also be stripped further 23:35:25 attila_lendvai, congrats for going live! 23:35:52 photon, and your point is? 23:36:02 Hun: any links for that? (if at hand) 23:36:19 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-68-58-88-241.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:36:28 $ strip ecl-binary ? 23:36:30 madnificent: just use strip on it 23:36:51 sbcl binary can be stripped too 23:36:56 but it won't work 23:36:57 yeah, and strip xemacs, too 23:37:02 Fare: that it's dangerous to make statements like "memory consumption starts at ..." 23:37:17 stassats`: really? it used to (didn't save you much, compared to the core file size, though) 23:37:17 -!- toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-63-237.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:37:19 Hun: ty 23:37:25 Fare: well, thanks! but let's just wait a week or two... the entire gui codebase from the socket to the html output generation have never been running in live and our test engine is still on the TODO list... :) 23:37:53 hefner: i mean, produced by s-l-a-d 23:40:24 -!- Cowmoo` [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:41:00 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 23:41:29 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-204-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 23:42:14 -!- twopoint718 [n=chris@adsl-75-50-88-160.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 23:42:58 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 23:44:39 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:46:09 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:47:22 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-88-217-60-251.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:47:46 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 23:50:44 auclairb [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has joined #lisp 23:54:23 toxeus [n=toxeus@adsl-176-63-237.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:42 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:54:57 mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 23:59:26 konr: see http://tech.coop/at%20cost%2C%20co-operative%20bandwidth for exactly how that unmetered bandwidth works .. nothing to be afraid of! 23:59:59 i really should update the website for basic hosting to point to that, and the new prices, but i'm busy.